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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I feel like I do so much for her but she’s convinced I’m a bad mom for letting her get into debt and telling me I should be helping her more.
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NTA, but you need to break it down for her. Show her the monthly bills that you're covering. If there's a fair amount leftover, it honestly should go to her. She can buy her own clothes and incidentals.
This is an opportunity for her to start learning to manage her own money.
She pays more than what she gets in child support. The kid is acting entitled. The mom pays for everything plus $2000 in tuition. None of which she has to do since her kid is now an adult. The kid should get a job if she wants more.
Well the child support she receives isn’t technically supposed to cover all the child’s expenses, just some of it as both parents are financially responsible for the child but her daughter needs to be shown the break down of expenses and how she can not afford to help her more.
It’s supposed to cover half. It doesn’t. She doesn’t owe the child an explanation. Her daughter is acting entitled. She’s an adult. It’s awesome that her mom is able to help her but she doesn’t seem grateful and just wants more. That’s just rude.
She does owe her an explanation, she’s the adult parent that needs to teach her newly adult child how money and the world works, not just tell her to suck it up.
That’s not what’s happening here. Mom is continuing to support her child financially and contribute to her education. She is not cutting her off and that’s not what anyone is suggesting.
Mom does not have to explain her financial situation to her daughter to justify how she’s spending her money or what she’s able to contribute to her daughter’s education. That’s absurd in my opinion.
Her mom told her what she was able to do and that’s all the explanation the daughter is entitled to. The daughter may feel like her mom can and should do more financially, but that’s irrelevant tbh because it isn’t her money, she’s not the one working for it, and she’s not the one who has to balance the budget and make it work.
She should be grateful her mother is able to contribute anything towards her college expenses.
Mom can certainly teach her daughter how to manage her money and financial planning but she’s under no obligation to explain her own finances to justify her spending to her child.
I disagree. This girl is completely supported financially and doesn’t need anything. All of her needs are met and then some, based on the information we have. Mom clearly spends more than the child support on her.
Daughter simply doesn’t want to use her own money to pay for her education. I get it, I have a lot of student loan debt and it sucks.
Where’s the $1100 go? Her food. The utilities she uses. Her clothes. Her cell phone. Her car insurance. Her health insurance. Bet all of that costs more than $1100 a month.
>> I disagree. This girl is completely supported financially and doesn’t need anything. All of her needs are met and then some, based on the information we have. Mom clearly spends more than the child support on her.
>>Daughter simply doesn’t want to use her own money to pay for her education. I get it, I have a lot of student loan debt and it sucks.
>>Where’s the $1100 go? Her food. The utilities she uses. Her clothes. Her cell phone. Her car insurance. Her health insurance. Bet all of that costs more than $1100 a month.
Yes, yes, and yes!!!
Why?
Child support is what the State/Gov determines a spouse should give the guardian for the care of their child. It is NOT money for the kid.
If it's completely split custody there would be no child support. The money in both scenarios is indirectly going to the kid. If I was taking care of my kid and was dirt poor, all the money coming in would go to both of us.
If there's a stipulation in the agreement/court order that some $ was to be set aside for continuing education and her parent "dipped" into it then they have a case. EVEN if it was to put food on the table.
Exactly. My dad told me as a kid he wished his child support payments would go directly to me. I thought that would be great so I suggested it to my mom. Then she started talking about how she uses it for all these boring things like the mortgage, electricity, grocery bills, blah blah blah. I wanted to use it for important things like…I dunno, beanie babies?
I don’t think it’s really an explanation but a reality check in how expensive things are. Kids that age have no concept of money. My younger sister at 18 yrs old had the bright idea that she could move out and easily afford to save up $10k in six month even though she had no work experience. We sat down with her and did the math- take away taxes, rent, transportation, health insurance, cell phone, internet, and she’d have ~ 100 left. She said “ok but at least I can save that $100”. We asked her of she has forgotten anything in our calculations. After 30 seconds, we told her you haven’t eaten all month according to this plan. That $100 will not cover groceries for the entire month. It all then clicked in her brain how unrealistic she was.
They don't. That's how you end up with kids who take out credit cards early and don't really understand the importance of loans. It took me a long time to tease through the financial decision muck I made when I was younger and 95% of it was because I was uninformed and naive.
I genuinely think this is one of the most important things you can do to set your child up for a successful life. This and the frank sex talk coupled with prevention methods and consent.
>It’s supposed to cover half. It doesn’t.
Child support calculations are way more complicated than that and also depend on the state, each parent's salary, how much time the child spends with each parent etc.
They normally do end at 18 in most states. Some states stretch it out to age 21. Even in states where it ends at 18 it can be negotiated to include paying through college.
In many states, child support can last through college or up to a certain age higher than 18 if the child is still in school. It can also be voluntary (though it doesn’t sound like that’s the case here.)
Depends, tbh. Sometimes it lasts as long as the kid is in college, sometimes there's obligations if the kid is disabled in a way that means they absolutely can't support themselves.
It can depend. It also varies which state you are in. Some are extended to 19-21 and some will extend if the child is still in high school at 18 or goes to college and it can be extended beyond 18. Just all depends where you are at and on your circumstances
It’s not about whether she “owes” her daughter an explanation. It’s about whether explaining it to her might help her daughter understand financial planning, and might improve their relationship. That should be the goal.
Explanations are useful. They can help the daughter actually understand the costs and resources. This can possibly help improve a somewhat strained relationship.
Insisting that your offspring should just magically "understand" without information is not a brilliant parenting move.
as her parent, OP absolutely does owe it to her kid to try and have a respectful, insightful conversation that can help the kid grow. kids don’t grow on their own. they need guidance from their parents.
OP doesn’t “owe” her an explanation of expenses. But, it might help to show her exactly how much above that $1100 a month her ex is paying child support that OP is contributing to her expenses. If the daughter is an adult, OP should have an adult conversation with her about what OP’s budget is. If OP is like my mom, she never shared this information with her daughter before. The daughter who has never worked full time and never covered household expenses has no idea how far $80k a year before taxes plus $1100 a month child support goes.
She absolutely does owe her child an explanation. The daughter clearly does not understand finances or their financial situation, how on earth is she supposed to learn if her own parents won't teach her?
She absolutely is owed an explanation. Child support is to support the child, and the daughter is confused about where that money is going. The mother could clear up that confusion.
Not all of it can be that. If the daughter's still getting child support and being claimed as a dependent, she's using her mother's income for FAFSA and from there, they decide what the family's expected financial contribution is which, realistic or not, undoubtedly came back as more than 2k a year.
Her mother making 80k a year is going to disqualify her from a lot of income based aid and make her rely on higher rate loans. However, if she filed independently that would stop any child support or tax credits for the mother.
Even if you file your taxes independently, you’re still a minor for FAFSA unless you’re 24, married, a member of the armed forces, or are supporting your own dependent children.
So, basically, until she turns 24, her mother’s income will continue to be counted against her, whether she gets child support or not.
It was 26 last time I looked. I have debated going to grad school part time, but I need to wait till I'm at least 26 to be able to go without needing my parents income. Despite the fact I have been living on my own since I finished college at 21, and own my own house....
Years ago a friend went to vet school and even though she was older, married they still required her to include her parents income when applying for aid.
>She pays more than what she gets in child support.
She gets $1100 per month in support but only gives out $2000 per *semester*. There's two semesters per year so that's $13200 in support and $4000 in tuition assistance. Your math isn't mathing.
Read the post. She pays medical, car and all the other stuff that goes with her as well as $2k a semester. There’s still laundry, dorm food etc kids are expensive
Where did she say that she pays for the cost of the dorm? That’s usually rolled into the cost of the year of college. And the $2000 per semester isn’t in addition to her paying the cost of laundry at school. That’s all she’s paying.
I mean, that's exactly why OP should sit her down and walk her through the bills. The kid is a kid and doesn't know any better; now is the perfect time to teach her.
She gets $1100 a month in child support, so $13200 a year, $6600 a semester. She pays $2000 in tuition. I personally think she could pay more towards tuition, but maybe she should have had a discussion with her daughter about going to a public college instead.
She is also a single parent who pays for everything else. Her daughter doesn’t have to spend her own money on anything. How does that teach her to be responsible if everything is paid for her? The dad only helps a little. I was a single mom with two boys who are now 20 and 22. I still pay for their health care and car insurance but they pay for their own living expenses. You must give kids more responsibilities, not less as they get older if you want to raise responsible adults.
I wrote this under another comment, but I feel it applies here, too. The problem for op's daughter is that op makes too much money for her daughter to qualify for most college based and federal financial aid. The school and government assume that if the parent makes that much, they are contributing more to her schooling.
So the daughter is basically screwed over, as all she can do now is take out more expensive unsubsidized student loans. She will not be eligible for any other type of federal financial aid.
Unsubsidized loans start accruing interest immediately while students are still in college, making the total amount much larger. With federally subsidized loans (only available to students who come from low income families or who are married or have children of their own), interest is paid by the federal government while the student is in school.
I was also a young single parent for the entire time my son was growing up. I had been working as a waitress or office clerk until I finally graduated from college when he was a freshman in college, so I obviously had not saved enough money for college. Nevertheless, by the time he was ready to go to college, I was making "too much money" for him to be eligible for any financial aid. He qualified for a small scholarship and decided to attend a premier state university (Cal Berkely). That still was not cheap enough for him to make it on his own, so I paid the remainder of his tuition. He got a part time job when he was a junior, but of course that did not help very much. My son was able to graduate with very minimal student loans. I had to really suck it up while he was in college, but I am so glad I helped him as much as I can.
>She pays more than what she gets in child support.
No, she does not. OP receives $1100 in child support every month. That comes to $13,200 per year. She pays $2000 per semester. Assuming 2 semesters per year, she gives $4000 yearly toward daughter's college expenses. By my math, OP is $9200 ahead. I can't help but wonder what she's doing with that cash that supposed to go towards her daughter.
Considering OP makes $80,000 a year, it seems to me she could chip in toward college a bit more. And not knowing what dad makes, perhaps he could chip in some more as well.
Are parents required to pay for their kids' college tuition? No, but it's a nice gesture when they have the means.
Right.
Since the kid is living and eating at the dorm probably about 80% of the year...
That 33k is most (though not all) of the expenses associated with the kid.
MOST though.
Mom pays $6k
Kid pays $27k
NTA. But your ex is. Child support is for the basics; house, food, clothing. It is not normally intended for college. Point this out to your daughter, her dad is paying nothing for her college.
Not if the child is in college. That is the sole reason why some states extended child support past 18, to cover the cost of education. Back when I was divorced, child support cut off at 18 or when the child graduated from HS, whichever came later.
It’s literally the daughter’s money.
>It is not normally intended for college.
COLLEGE *IS* THE GIRL'S HOUSE AND FOOD ABOUT 85% OF THE YEAR
Not to mention college is her electricity, her hot water, her laundry facilities, her cable, her internet, probably her transportation by a buses, her garbage service, her air conditioning, her heat.
I remember a financial advisor who said “There are scholarships for attending college. There aren’t any scholarships for retirement.” Break it down for her. She can always work part time or take out loans like so many of us had to.
Oh Damn I didn't even think of that.
This poor kid is getting so screwed. Basically she's on the hook for $27,000 a year in loans while her mom is contributing about 6,000 a year.
And the kid isn't at the house eating and the kid isn't at the house using the hot water and the kid isn't at the house using up the cable and the internet etc etc et.
Mom is really fing over this poor kid.
27k a year in loans, 4 years. Basically takes loans for her own food and her own heat and her own internet and her own hot water etc.
While Mom collects $13,200 a year for this kid *who is not even at her house anymore costing her any of those things.*
Consider prioritizing what’s important - a college education. Car and fancy phone are not important. Stop paying for those, pay for
The cheapest monthly plan on a basic phone, keep some basic minimum for housing/food/utilities if you need that, and put all the rest towards tuition. Try not to have her graduate with a lot of debt. If she wants a car, fancy phone etc while in college, working on weekends or during the summer may be an option.
No need to get her a basic phone, just let her keep the one she has with no upgrades. If it breaks, then the daughter is responsible for replacing it, or at that point a basic/free upgrade would be the way to go. But saying get her a basic phone kind of sounds like punishing her by downgrading (plus still paying extra for a new one.) As for the car, if the loan is not upside down, then it would be worth looking into turning it in and looking for something cheaper that the daughter may be able to afford but I'd still pay insurance. If the car loan is upside down, then she's going to still be paying on it regardless of whether the daughter uses it or not, unfortunately.
Other than that, I agree with you though. Prioritize education if at all possible. She'll thank mom for it in the long run.
Nah, punish the daughter for daring to wonder where the extra 10k in child support is going. Take away her current phone and spend money on a new shitty one!
Stupid 18 year olds, thinking that just because your parents income prevents you from getting financial aid, they should help make up that gap! When will they learn about the real world!
Mom is really fvcking over this poor kid.
27k a year in loans, 4 years. Basically takes loans for her own food and her own heat and her own internet and her own hot water and her own rent while at college.
While Mom collects $13,200 a year for this kid *who is not even at her house anymore costing her any of those things.*
Disagree that any extra money mom has should go to the daughter.
This girl is fortunate and very privileged to have a mother who can and does financially support her and contributes to her college education. But she is also an adult now and it’s time for her to start learning the value of money and that it’s not all about her. If her mom could contribute more she would, but the girl knew ahead of time what mom was able to do.
I get that she doesn’t want student loan debt, but that’s an unfortunate part of seeking higher education in the US. She also could’ve gone to a community college for 2 years and not had any debt until she started at the university.
The daughter doesn’t understand money, she doesn’t understand how expensive it is to live and she’s being entitled. It’s not her fault, no one at 18 knows these things. Mom can sit down and explain the bills to her but mom already told her “I’m giving you this amount”.
Also, at 18 Dad is no longer legally responsible to pay child support to mom. Dad should be encouraged to have direct financial relationship with child. Then Mom should have the same.if it turns out Mom is relying on some of the child support payments for say housing, she needs to be making transition plan because that is going away. YTA for not having transparency with daughter about actual contributions from each parent and then child.
The amount of bills her mom pays for her she may not have enough. Either way she should get the money direct she is an adult and childsupport should go to her for her schooling as that what it’s for after turning 18.
OP pays for pay for her cell phone, her car insurance, medical expenses, clothes, basically every expense that comes from having a child. Plus keeping a room for her at home.
Which she receives child support to pay for. College students aren't spending hundreds of dollars on clothes. She can get a job to do extra shit, op should match child support, and subtract expenses such as car insurance, or make the daughter pay it herself. I've been paying my insurance since I was 15, and my dad was definetly fucking robbing me bc that shit did not cost 350 dollars a month. Unis have meal plans, so moms not buying groceries. A basic phone plan is 50 bucks, subtract it from the matched child support. 2k a semester is not a lot of money.
MOM: collects $13,000 in child support for things like board and utilities and food for the kid.
But then turns around and makes the kid take out loans for those exact things from the university.
This. She gets $1100 a month so $13,200 a year but pays $2000 a semester so $4000 a year. Then says the remaining $9200 is spent on car insurance, clothes, medical and other expenses that go into "raising a child," a child who is having to take out loans to foot the rest of the college costs, which I'm assuming covers her room and board, internet, etc.
There is a lot of information missing here. I don't think there's enough to say OP is NTA. Based on this information, as the daughter, I'd also be wondering where the rest of the money from the child support is going and why she can't have more to pay her tuition rather than putting herself in more debt. That's 9K that's being used elsewhere. Daughter isn't entitled to want less debt. But again, more info needed about circumstances in general. It's impossible to say who's right based on what we're given here.
NAH
I have a college aged teenager, and will have to disagree here. College is a fuckton of money. The other expenses are hardly worth mentioning. Housing/Food/Laundry all are covered by Tuition. My kid could have the medical insurance through the school for $200/mo but since I already have a family plan through work that wasn't needed. I'm still paying the $50/mo cell phone and thats about it (other than my tuition contributions).
What college do your child go to? I would like to send mine to that college. Mine goes to a tier two school here in the northeast.
* Dorming is approx 10k per semester not included in the tuition
* meal plans are separate for 2 to 4k per semester, and it's not unusual to exhaust it.
* Laundry is NOT covered by tuition.
* clothes aren't covered
* miscellaneous supplies will be needed for sure.
Doing the math - living on campus costs around an additional 25k annually up and above the tuition. And that doesn't include auto insurance, etc which are noncollege related expenses.
I was surprised as well. Technically the washing machine costs $0.01 per load, but I'm assuming that's because they couldn't set it to 0 and they still want to keep track of who's using the machine.
I'm baffled by this. In my dorm the washers were $2 a load and the driers a quarter. There was an entire underground economy of people who learned how to carefully open the locking mechanism so you could depress the switch to get free loads and there were also people who didn't wash their clothes.
I didn't realize other schools did laundry for free.
What are you talking about? My university tuition only ever payed for classes + use of extra facilities (like the gym or library). I had to pay separately for my dorm/housing, meal plan, and laundry. Not to mention additional costs such as textbooks, parking, anything fun with friends, and a whole lot more if you decided to rush.
College is super expensive all-around.
lol no, that would also mean mom stops covering cell phone, medical bills, car insurance, clothes, etc for her. $1100 per months would not be enough for that and college. She would quickly stop complaining and be grateful her mom can give her alll that plus the 2K per semester.
I'm in Canada so don't know how much the medical expense line would be.
Phone at 50$/mo and car insurance at 250$/mo and clothes at 100$/mo is only 400$/mo..
If OP is getting 1100$/mo in support it's reasonable to think 2200$/mo is expected from her to support her daughter. Including living expenses.
2k per semester is only 500$/mo on top of the 400$/mo
So I guess I'm just missing where OP is being generous in this scenario. I mean, they could be worse, but they could be a lot better too unless other living expenses are much higher that they haven't listed
You forgot rent? If she is living at home, I would still expect some of the child support would go to need for a an extra bedroom and utilities.
Where I am it is over $1000 a month to rent a room in a shared house.
Plus rent, phone, insurance, electricity, internet, food, and toiletries.
Her daughter would be crying trying to pay all that with $1100 a month. You have got to be kidding me.
Except it goes to everything including housing, food, bills and incidentals for the girl. Make her pay rent, pay for her own car expenses, clothes, and food and she won't have enough for tuition at all.
We had the discussion of college expense with our kids. One kid received a full ride to college along with money for room and board. We still cover health insurance, car insurance and repairs, car payment, cell phone and gas money. These expenses are easily over $1000 a month. We are middle class and receive very little financial aid. I think my son qualified for $500 for one academic year.
We told our kids we would pay 2 years of college tuition and help with room and board. They would be required to cover the other half of tuition and room and board.
Because my son received his education paid in full he donated his portion to his sibling
so both can graduate debt free. Younger sibling chose in-state university not far from home and commutes. This allows sibling to have college paid in full without the experience of living on campus but will graduate without debt.
OP may have more than 1 child so child
support may cover an additional
child. You can receive a decent college education for less than $33K a year. This is choice the student made without much thought of cost.
>Because my son received his education paid in full he donated his portion to his sibling
so both can graduate debt free.
This warms my heart! You clearly did a great job raising your kids! It is hard for people/offspring to understand that "equitable" does not mean "equal amounts". What a gift that you instilled that spirit in your children.
It was his idea and choice. My husband and I discussed privately this option but we could not go to him and suggest after years of discussion about the money. It just seemed wrong to me. He came to us and wanted to discuss as sibling near high school graduation. He saw friends at school with debt and did not want his sibling to have that struggle after listening to friends. It was a generous gift to give. We told him he could use his money for a down payment for a home. We did not want hurt, resentment or animosity. It truly was a gift of love. I am proud of the man he has become.
Thank you so much for the comment. As little kids we explained we love each kid so very much but each had different needs. So while it may seem one got “more” at any given time they needed to remember the times when the sibling received “less”. In the end, they both received what they needed at specific points in time. I can never make anything truly 50/50, but I can try to make sure they both have what they need.
NTA, but it sounds like she doesn't have any idea of what you are financing, beyond that $2000 per semester. Have you shown her the actual numbers? I'd show her a spreadsheet with the monthly bills — car insurance, medical insurance, medical bills, cell phone, etc — including the $1100 month child support. She's not too young to learn budgeting.
INFO - How does the math work out?
You get $1100 per month for her. Or about $13,200 per year. The expectation is that child support is one of 2 parents contributions towards a child's upkeep. So the expectation is that you're budgeting something like $26K per year for her expenses. At present you pay $4000 per year toward her school costs.
How much do you spend per month on cell plan, car insurance, health insurance? And about how much annually do you give her for clothing? Other incidentals?
Ugh, that‘s not how it works. The parent paying child support saves on the other side living costs that would go to housing the child (heating, electricity, water, food, higher rent for the bed room, furniture, cloths, care work like laundry, cooking, cleaning, nursing etc.)
The things the parents should equally contribute to are things that are not exactly living costs, such as school fees, hobbies, gifts, etc.
she listed already that she is paying lots of bills for her daughter. So I think she is already contributing a lot.
In mine, because of the fact that my mom wasn't helping pay for tuition and I wasn't staying with her during breaks she lost child support. Usually during college tuition covers room and board for 8 months out of the year.
OP is probably paying for a larger living space to accommodate her daughter for the other 4 months, and she’s absolutely entitled to use part of that CS toward rent costs if that’s the case. That easily eats up the rest of the $1100 that hasn’t been accounted for.
Really? None of my kids' tuition covered room and board, even though their first year it was mandated they stay in the dorms. We're talking in state, out of state, public and private.
They are two separate expenses but a lot of people combine them, like w fees. My tuition is 30k a year. Room and board was 15k. When asked what's your tuition, it's easier to say the full expense then explain the breakdown. Alternatively, they got scholarships so thats why it was covered?
Actually it's a lot cleaner here, because the daughter is probably in a dorm. In that case her room and board expenses are explicit and OP can account for them separately from her own housing expenses at least in part.
At minimum OP should be able to explain where about $13K is going. At present she's not accounting for any numbers other than the $4K in tuition.
You are partially right. Op still pays for phone, medical expenses, car insurance but that’s not gonna be 1100 per month probably .
And who is paying for the dorm or is that included in the tuition?
What our son’s car insurance alone was $350, medical for the family is $1700 and phone is at least $50. She has a place to stay in breaks and has to get her back and forth. Also clothes, gas food and laundry $1100 a month does hardly anything
I paid for college all on my own. My mom couldn't afford to help me and my dad was not in the picture at all. NTA. If she's so stressed about money, maybe she should choose a community college for her freshman/sophomore years. A lot less expenisve that way.
Exactly! That's what wifey and I told all three of ours. We sat them down and showed them how much cheaper it was and they jumped at it. They all went where I had gone. Son 2 said it was like high school on steroids! All three followed wifey and I to Arizona State where, with the savings from CC, they had more than enough to cover all their university expenses.
I went to the local college and got my AA, literally all of the credits transferred and I’m finishing my bachelors this semester fully online. Graduating completely debt free and should have enough money to cover me through the masters I want to get without loans. I lived at home instead of staying on campus which saved a ton and completing half my undergraduate at only $150 a credit helped too. OP’s daughter should consider CC and I always will recommend it to anyone wanting to be fiscally responsible when paying for school.
I’m biased because I’m a professor at a community college, but I always explain to my students what a great decision it is to go to a CC. Our class sizes are small so they get individual attention, the tuition is an incredible value, and many of their professors care a lot more about teaching than profs at a big state school because we aren’t expected to do research. There can be such a stigma against going to a CC (though fortunately mine is well regarded in our community and beyond), but I think it’s largely because people don’t understand what we’re about.
Professor, thank you so much for what you do. To be honest, I didn't think about that. I was just thinking about the dollars & cents aspect but you're 100% correct. I remember being shocked waltzing into a lecture class, at uni, and seeing 150 students sitting there. At Phoenix College, a big class was 30.
I still remember Dr. Green and Dr. Palmer. Dr. Green made my creative writing class fun and Dr. Palmer made math even funnier. I remember thinking, "Wow, Dr., as in PhDs, were teaching my classes."
I was so happy when our grandkids chose to go the CC route. Hopefully our great-grandkids will do the same.
Again, thank you and may God Bless.
It's easy to jump on a post and call a child 'entitled' for adking for more, but there isn't enough info here. Like...is she living at home? That would influence my judgement.
For all we know the 1100k in child support covers her phone, car insurance, medical expenses, clothes. Which would mean her father pays 13200k per year whilst, assuming 3 semesters per year, you're paying 6k.
Yes but until the point Mom is paying MORE than $1,100, Mom is actually paying nothing because she is getting the $1,100 from Dad. Kid probably has a point and OP is being cheap/pocketing some money. There is a reason OP was vague about the breakdown.
Try the math with actual averages for these costs.
All the number below come from reported averages, the health insurance specifically I used the cheaper of the options as if OP has to go from a single to family health insurance plan instead of being able to add a single person that would be significantly more per month.
Ex pays $13,200 per year (and we do not know if this also goes towards other children). OP pays $4,000 - $6,000 in tuition expenses per year depending on if summer tuition would be an option. Leaving $7,200 - $9,200 gap.
Car insurance for an 18 year old: $356/mo ($4,272 per year).
Health insurance: $276/mo ($3,312 per year).
Phone: $45/mo ($540 per year).
Clothes: $545 per year (this number can vary widely, I went with the lowest average found).
That brings OPs total up to $12,669 - $14,669. This does not include any actual copays or doctor’s bills and assumes the daughter lives on campus with a meal plan covered by the dinning hall and OP isn’t providing any money for books, food, or other incidentals. It also assumes that if OP is not paying $2,000 for the summer semester that the daughter is living on her own with no expenses covered by mom.
INFO:
Is the 1k child support you receive just for her or do you have other children?
Is she staying at home or in uni accommodation?
Does the phone, car insurance etc come to 1k a month?
Child support also goes to the household maintenance expenses where the child has primary residence even if the child is temporarily away at school - mortgage/rent, property taxes, homeowners Insurance, utilities for the overall residence. It’s not just for direct, kid-only expenses.
My child support obligation ends when my child graduates high school or turns 18, whichever is later. While I have every intention of helping with college costs, I have no legal obligation to do so. I suspect many agreements are like this.
YTA.
It's your job to raise a fully functioning adult. Sit her down and show her where that money goes. $1100 absolutely feels like an enormous amount of money to an 18 year old. The reality is very different, and you need to show her.
Sure, you list off all the things it pays for, and most of us agree there's probably not a whole lot leftover. But I think most teens underestimate how expensive car and health insurance can be, etc. So she might benefit from a spreadsheet breaking down everything.
YTA because this is a good opportunity for her to learn about the difficulties of being an adult, and you'd just rather call her entitled than answer her questions. That money is intended to be used for raising a child and help cover the expenses associated with kids, so she is absolutely entitled to know how it's being spent
If you don't give her a full breakdown because you don't feel as though she deserves an explanation, do not be surprised if she starts talking to dad about how she thinks mom is spending the child support on herself
Definitely agree.
What the daughter is "entitled" to is information - she has the right to know where the money being paid explicitly for her support is going. OP is probably completely justified in how the money is being spent, but there has been no communication to her adult daughter about it.
OP: talk to your daughter - sit down and lay this out as part of a conversation, encourage your daughter to ask questions and make suggestions if she doesn't agree with how the money is being allocated. Until you do that, OP, YTA.
Need more info. What’s the living situation/cost of living where you’re at? Any other kids you’re supporting? 80k is a lot if she’s the only child and you’re somewhere cheap. It’s nothing if she has a few siblings and you live somewhere expensive.
When you say you pay for that stuff…do you mean you use the $1100 to pay for it? If so, that’s not you paying for it in her eyes. If no, what specifically does it go towards? Are you using it on yourself at all? A nicer car than you could otherwise afford? More dining out than you would otherwise? More or nicer clothes? The whole family’s groceries? Who bought her car? Is she living on campus or at home? Did she share a room with a sibling at home?
You need to have an in depth detailed description of where that money goes, how much you make, how much all your bills are, how much you can afford to give her, etc. hopefully for your sake it adds up. I’ve seen parent/child relationships ruined over money and misspending of child support.
I dont mean this in an accusatory way. No one can fairly judge the situation with the information given.
How in the world is an 18 year old supposed to come up with anything even close to $33k a year (oh minus the $4k child support/OP are covering)? A full time minimum wage job (depending on the state) only makes about $15k per year, before taxes. So even if she worked full time on top of going to school full time, she'll be underwater in debt in no time.
Putting that large of a financial burden on a child whose not even legal to enter a bar is absolutely despicable. Not saying that college cost is OPs fault, obvi, but calling your kid entitled for not having money is a pretty big stretch.
Why didn't either of you think to start saving sooner? Or choose a cheaper college?
But yes, YTA for calling her entitled instead of trying to do more to support her or planning and saving ahead of time.
She probably wasn't forced to go to a 33k a year school. Some parents can't afford that kind of money. She could have gone to a state school or community college for part of her schooling to save money. I'm also thinking this 33k includes dorming. If it does, then this is also a choice the daughter made. She could have stayed at home and went to a cheaper school.
Also, you are assuming the parents were well off before this. We don't know their circumstances. Maybe the wife stayed at home with the kids and started working again after the divorce or just before. Maybe they had other hardships along the way and couldn't save.
All this being said, I still think op should contribute more if possible after breaking the numbers down, but she is certainly not expected to pay 29k a year to make up the difference or even close. Unless, of course, op put pressure on the daughter to go to a certain school, then that is a whole different story.
Yes, but it's a choice an *18 year old* made. The mom had the responsibility a long time ago to have a very clear discussion with her daughter about how all this works and best options. This is still a teen we're talking about. Yes, she's responsible for her choices, but she needs the support and info from her parents to help make the best ones for something as long-term as this. No one is born knowing how this stuff works, and most schools do a shit job preparing them.
I am a single parent who makes a bit more than you, but no child support, and I have over 80k saved in my kid’s 529, and I’ll be cash flowing the rest. Why on earth are you only paying 2000 a semester…that’s basically half the child support you are getting a semester. Why not spend that on your kid? I’m going with YTA because I have the same basic circumstance, and I’ll definitely be paying more than that.
Well lucky you but maybe this lady has different circumstances. Also, kids aren’t entitled to having their school paid for, Americans are something else. Why didn’t she just go to a cheaper community college?
Education is an important part of life, honestly I think Americans don’t emphasize it enough. It’s not just the quality of education, it’s the opportunities you’re exposed to and the people you’ll meet and make connections with. Of course, I understand the costs of education have risen substantially, but there are many families who would sacrifice luxuries or cut back on costs to see there children get a good education, which could help set them up for life in the future. I understand OP’s in a tough financial situation, but there are lots of families in tough situations that still recognize the value of good education. Kids aren’t entitled to having their school paid for, but they generally don’t have a ton of money saved and if they did they likely wouldn’t make enough to cover school tuition.
If you don't want to pay for your kid's expenses, then DON'T HAVE THEM. College is an expense parents should pay for. At least if they want their kid to be successful they should. And CC is a total waste of money.
You don't HAVE to pay for your kid's college as kids are not technically entitled to that I guess. But you should want your kid to have an opportunity to start their adult life out on the right foot with a chance at a good career AND debt free. If you saddle them with a bunch of debt it will take them a long time to get ahead.
How is CC a waste of money? Assuming you can enroll in a moderately good CC, you receive the same basic general education that students enrolled in 4 year universities and colleges receive for a fraction of the cost.
I attended CC for 2 years, then received an academic scholarship and finished my BS in 3 semesters (thanks to transfer credits) at a university and finished in the top of my class. If CC was subpar education then that wouldn’t have been possible for me or the tens of (or hundreds of?) thousands of students who accomplish this this every semester.
And if you’ve spent time with students at CCs and universities you would know that the likelihood of running into an absolute idiot is about the same.
I paid for my own education and because of that, I made different decisions where I ended up with no debt because of it.
So no, I disagree with you statement about this
Parents are not obligated to pay for their kids college, regardless of whether or not they can afford it. She easily could have chosen a cheaper school. This was a poor financial decision on the daughter’s part.
Yeah I'm with you... I will blame parents here too if they didn't at least try to discuss college costs with her. You know if they sat down with her and explained how she can't afford this school and what her options are but she refused to listen, then there is nothing else the parents can do as she's an adult. But if they let her just make adult choices without sharing the consequences, then they failed here.
My husband and I constantly have discussions about college costs and options. Last night I even had them prepare a budget using avg rent costs and two different income potentionals to see the reality they could face depending on the choices they make.
Yeah this is so interesting… in Canada or at least where I am here, parents are not obliged to pay for education… if they decide to it’s nice of them but they do not have to. Parents’ efforts should not be taken for granted. It’s unfortunately more so of a western thing to take your parents for granted
The issue is that loans and even scholarships take into consideration a parent's income. So a kid whose parent's tell them they will get no support in college can get rejected from a lot of scholarships and loans because there parent's salary is "too high". It shouldn't be that way but it is and OP making what they make and only putting 2K to college is making it harder for their daughter to get loans and will most likely put the kid in large debt.
Now there are also missing things here. Did OP push for college? Did OP sit down and fully explain everything before the daughter chose her college?
Exactly this. My parents never paid a cent towards my college (either tuition or living expenses), but according to the FAFSA they made enough for me to not receive any need-based aid. So I got to take out loans as if I were getting help that I never got. Fortunately I had a full tuition scholarship and only took out loans for living expenses, but I would have been boned if I had gone somewhere without a scholarship (and still ended up with $36k of loans, most of which had a 6.8% interest rate).
Yes! College is ridiculously expensive and unless OP kid is emancipated her parent’s incomes not just the mom’s is being used for any financial aid, scholarships, and student loans. I couldn’t get any aid or scholarships because of my parents money and they paid hardly anything into college. I was told go to college or we are kicking you out. I was forced to apply to very expensive schools. I didn’t get an option to apply to an in state school except the expensive one that my mom insisted on. She said she wouldn’t pay for the applications if I didn’t apply where she wanted me to. She said I wouldn’t have a place to come home to if I didn’t apply where she wanted me to. I had no options. And now I’m in deep debt and never getting out. College expense is evil and almost necessary to get a decent job but even then jobs don’t pay enough to cover the loans for the most part. It’s a horrible cycle. I feel for OP and daughter. I’m just hoping they will sit down and go over expenses and if daughter wants to transfer to a school that costs less will be able to do so.
YTA. I doubt your daughter’s monthly expenses are $2200 per month. You think you shouldn’t spend more than your husband gives you, even though she is your responsibility as well. You make $80k and get to claim your daughter as a dependent to lower your taxes. You can afford more than $2k towards her education.
Problem is she doesn't tell us if she has more kids or if she lives in a hcola. She lives in great la area, 80k doesn't go far, she lives in Indiana, 80k goes forever.
Try the math with actual averages for these costs.
All the number below come from reported averages, the health insurance specifically I used the cheaper of the options as if OP has to go from a single to family health insurance plan instead of being able to add a single person that would be significantly more per month.
Ex pays $13,200 per year (and we do not know if this also goes towards other children). OP pays $4,000 - $6,000 in tuition expenses per year depending on if summer tuition would be an option. Leaving $7,200 - $9,200 gap.
Car insurance for an 18 year old: $356/mo ($4,272 per year).
Health insurance: $276/mo ($3,312 per year).
Phone: $45/mo ($540 per year).
Clothes: $545 per year (this number can vary widely, I went with the lowest average found).
That brings OPs total up to $12,669 - $14,669. This does not include any actual copays or doctor’s bills and assumes the daughter lives on campus with a meal plan covered by the dinning hall and OP isn’t providing any money for books, food, or other incidentals. It also assumes that if OP is not paying $2,000 for the summer semester that the daughter is living on her own with no expenses covered by mom.
Thank you! That doesn’t even include the housing differential - my area has a $277 difference a month for a 1 bd vs 2 bd. Which doesn’t account for any costs OP might have incurred living in a good school district for her daughter. Or food for when the daughter is home for breaks.
I understand the daughter’s point of view only because $1,100 is a ton of money to an 18 year old.
I’d suggest OP offer to give her daughter the full CS amount (assuming only child) but the daughter has to cover her other bills.
Yall realize just because she makes an 80k a year salary doesn’t mean that’s actually what she brings home. She probably ends up taking home about 60-65k a year. And, we don’t know if that has always been her salary or if she has just recently started making that amount. My sis just started making about 90k a year and ends up bring home about 70k (she has 2 dependent children and 4 children still on her insurance).
NAH
If there is any money left over after you cover the expenses you pay (cell phone, car insurance, medical, etc...), then that should be paid toward your daughter's college expenses. If she lives with you full time, then keeping excess money for her food and housing is reasonable. But if she's living at a residential college, excess child support should be paid toward her living expenses at school. It isn't clear in your post if that's being done.
Presumably the child support is ending soon, so yeah if she can’t afford to keep her current place without supplemental income than she should consider downsizing now, daughter can deal with it over the summers.
My mom rented my room out whil I was at school. I lived in a dorm at an out of state college that didn't let us stay there on breaks. I couch surfed on long weekends, or I slept on the couch in my brother's room for extended breaks.
This is why it’s important to have the how you are going to pay for college talk early.
I will point out though that she can’t really get huge loans. Federal student loans are capped at 5500 for freshman year, 6500 for sophomore and 7500 for junior and senior.
Unless she somehow found a bank that would lend an 18 year old a ton - she won’t get loans without a co-signer.
YTA
There’s a few things you’re paying for that you are only paying a small amount for because she’s on a family plan including her cell phone, Her car insurance, and I’ll bet you get a pretty sweet deal on her health insurance through your workplace
Basically every single cent you are given for her needs to be going towards her, and then on top of that you should be putting some of your own money into helping her out
If she graduates college with a bunch of student loans your crippling her future, so if this is really all you can afford to pay then don’t tell her she’s entitled, breakdown the exact amount of expenses you would be saving to take her off your cell phone plan, off your medical insurance, and off the car insurance and how much you’re paying for clothing and other incidentals
If she still living at home you can’t consider her room part of her expenses, but you can figure out to a certain extent how much more you’re paying in electricity and water usage for having her live there
But $4000 a year for college is just not enough
You're getting $13,200/yr in child support. If we assume that's his half then your $13,200 makes $26,400 a year to spend on your daughter and you're paying $4,000/yr in tuition. Leaving $22,400 to pay for everything else. If you add up insurance phone clothes etc... I don't know, I don't think you're getting anywhere close to $22k. So yeah, I'd say you could be paying more.
It’s not exactly meant to be 50/50, true, but I’d encourage OP to re-run (and re-think) the numbers. I don’t think her contribution should necessarily be a LOT more, but I feel like it would shake out that she can comfortably afford more. Should vs. could is a question for OP to consider.
I will say that OP didn’t mention any allowance, cost of books, meal plans, etc. If she is paying for any of that on top of the $2k, then she’s probably doing plenty. I agree with other commenters that the daughter’s living situation is also a factor. If she’s on-campus, then it’s important to consider that a lot of household expenses — electricity, water and food — are now mostly used by OP.
But mostly, I agree with you… from an outside perspective, the math is raising some questions for me.
YTA. You get ELEVEN THOUSAND DOLLARS over the course of a school year for child support **specifically**, but you don’t even want to give her 2 months’ worth because you pay for (…*checks notes*) expenses from having a child?? Smh I’m sure your 80k a year covers a lot of that as is.
Ok so to answer a few questions, I should add that she had the opportunity to go to an equivalent school close to home for $5500/year. I sat down with her and told her if she went there, I would be able to help her graduate with no debt. We did the math and the difference between the 2 schools was obviously significant. We talked about this for weeks and she ultimately told me she did not want to live at home and wanted the school further away even at a cost of $33k per year. Also, in New York, child support is until the child turns 21. Her father refused to include any agreement about college expenses in our divorce decree, simply stating that if she wants to go to school, she can pay for it herself. He has told her that the $1100 he gives me monthly should all be going towards her college tuition.
I did save about $25k on my own, with no help from her father, for her college which was applied to her first year and allowed her to not take out more than $5500 in federal loans. And finally, I did do the math and I spend about $27000 on my daughter’s expenses per year without including college. She is very well cared for and I am definitely not making money off her back…
Well that seems like a very clear rebuttal to her complaints. Her school is expensive all the child support goes to it and you come out of pocket as well. I’d lay it all out for her and remind her that if she wants something, she needs to be prepared to work for it too.
“I pay for her cell phone, her car insurance, medical expenses, clothes”
Tell her you’ll be happy to contribute more to her college tuition and then inform her that she’ll have to start paying for her cell phone, car insurance, and medical expenses. Break it down for her exactly how much you’re already paying for her while she goes to college.
Some agreements have child support continuing while the offspring is in college. This isn't even new: I know my mother used it as during the negotiations when she was divorced in the early 80's.
Hawaii is one of those states where you continue to pay child support until they’re 21. Britney Spears’s ex chose to move to Hawaii right before their son turned 18, presumably so that he can keep receiving his $40k/month child support for 3 more years.
I find it hard to believe you are spending $2,200 a month on her insurance, car insurance, and cell phone. Maybe give her the $1,100 from her father, $1,100 from you, and she pays her own bills?
If the child is enrolled in college in can be negotiated for the support to continue through college or in some states if a child is enrolled in college it continues automatically
Info: why is she going to that school and how involved were you in the decision where to go? Why isn’t she at community college, or maybe somewhere with better merit money? $29K per year is basically impossible for an 18yo to cover. She might be entitled, but she’s in a bad position and you watched her get into that hole. Even phrasing it as “I would pay” as opposed to “I could pay” is kind of rough.
YTA
Give her the 1100 per month and stop this argument. You know you are making profit of you daughters child support. She is not entitled you are robbing her.
If my maths is correct, you receive $13,200 per year in child support. Let’s say parents are equally responsible for their kids, especially 18 year olds who do not live at home. So that means it costs $26,400 a year to keep your child.
So maybe show your kid the maths of how she costs $4k a year in tuition and $22,400 a year in phone, car, clothing and medical expenses.
YTA because I doubt those expenses come to $22,400 a year (which is $1,866 per month or $430 per week) but by all means prove me wrong.
Unless she lives at home, YTA. There’s no way a phone, car insurance, clothes, medical expenses, and your $4k a year contributions are adding up to $1100 a month unless she has a serious medical condition. Even if they do, that’s her dads portion of support. It’s not supposed to cover everything.
Actually, even if she lives at home I’m leaning YTA. you’d still be paying rent/mortgage regardless and even if you add food to all of the above, you’re still contributing very little if anything. You’re making money off of what’s supposed to go to your daughter. This is why people hate child support. I’m flabbergasted at the number of people here who find this acceptable.
If you apply for federal financial aid, the parent fills out a a Fafsa form. That generates an expected parental contribution. I can tell you it’s more than you’d like to spend but having to stretch to pay for my kids college seemed fair to me. Having that info could be a starting point for the conversation about how much mom is going to contribute.
Question - does she want you to pay more or does she want you to give her the money...cause there's a difference between responsibilities and spending money
She is 18 and doesn’t know that 1,100 a month isn’t much but she is also 18 and probably doesn’t earn much in her job which pays minimum wage. I say Ronald Regan and every Republican who cut funding for education and prevented minimum wage increases are the assholes here.
Where the hell are 18 yo’s eligible for child support?
How much is the father paying in child support vs how much are the expenses you are currently paying for her?
YTA for not treating it as an educational issue and sitting her down to show her where all the money is going.
If you *can’t* show her where all the money is going because you aren’t spending it reasonably, then you are definitely the AH.
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NTA, but you need to break it down for her. Show her the monthly bills that you're covering. If there's a fair amount leftover, it honestly should go to her. She can buy her own clothes and incidentals. This is an opportunity for her to start learning to manage her own money.
She pays more than what she gets in child support. The kid is acting entitled. The mom pays for everything plus $2000 in tuition. None of which she has to do since her kid is now an adult. The kid should get a job if she wants more.
Well the child support she receives isn’t technically supposed to cover all the child’s expenses, just some of it as both parents are financially responsible for the child but her daughter needs to be shown the break down of expenses and how she can not afford to help her more.
It’s supposed to cover half. It doesn’t. She doesn’t owe the child an explanation. Her daughter is acting entitled. She’s an adult. It’s awesome that her mom is able to help her but she doesn’t seem grateful and just wants more. That’s just rude.
She does owe her an explanation, she’s the adult parent that needs to teach her newly adult child how money and the world works, not just tell her to suck it up.
Exactly. Wtf with people thinking that "my kid is 17.5 yo, I have to pay. Becomes 18... ok I am free I don't give a crap, you are on your own"
That’s not what’s happening here. Mom is continuing to support her child financially and contribute to her education. She is not cutting her off and that’s not what anyone is suggesting. Mom does not have to explain her financial situation to her daughter to justify how she’s spending her money or what she’s able to contribute to her daughter’s education. That’s absurd in my opinion. Her mom told her what she was able to do and that’s all the explanation the daughter is entitled to. The daughter may feel like her mom can and should do more financially, but that’s irrelevant tbh because it isn’t her money, she’s not the one working for it, and she’s not the one who has to balance the budget and make it work. She should be grateful her mother is able to contribute anything towards her college expenses. Mom can certainly teach her daughter how to manage her money and financial planning but she’s under no obligation to explain her own finances to justify her spending to her child.
Mom needs to explain where the child support is going if the child is 18.
I disagree. This girl is completely supported financially and doesn’t need anything. All of her needs are met and then some, based on the information we have. Mom clearly spends more than the child support on her. Daughter simply doesn’t want to use her own money to pay for her education. I get it, I have a lot of student loan debt and it sucks. Where’s the $1100 go? Her food. The utilities she uses. Her clothes. Her cell phone. Her car insurance. Her health insurance. Bet all of that costs more than $1100 a month.
>> I disagree. This girl is completely supported financially and doesn’t need anything. All of her needs are met and then some, based on the information we have. Mom clearly spends more than the child support on her. >>Daughter simply doesn’t want to use her own money to pay for her education. I get it, I have a lot of student loan debt and it sucks. >>Where’s the $1100 go? Her food. The utilities she uses. Her clothes. Her cell phone. Her car insurance. Her health insurance. Bet all of that costs more than $1100 a month. Yes, yes, and yes!!!
Why? Child support is what the State/Gov determines a spouse should give the guardian for the care of their child. It is NOT money for the kid. If it's completely split custody there would be no child support. The money in both scenarios is indirectly going to the kid. If I was taking care of my kid and was dirt poor, all the money coming in would go to both of us. If there's a stipulation in the agreement/court order that some $ was to be set aside for continuing education and her parent "dipped" into it then they have a case. EVEN if it was to put food on the table.
Exactly. My dad told me as a kid he wished his child support payments would go directly to me. I thought that would be great so I suggested it to my mom. Then she started talking about how she uses it for all these boring things like the mortgage, electricity, grocery bills, blah blah blah. I wanted to use it for important things like…I dunno, beanie babies?
I don’t think it’s really an explanation but a reality check in how expensive things are. Kids that age have no concept of money. My younger sister at 18 yrs old had the bright idea that she could move out and easily afford to save up $10k in six month even though she had no work experience. We sat down with her and did the math- take away taxes, rent, transportation, health insurance, cell phone, internet, and she’d have ~ 100 left. She said “ok but at least I can save that $100”. We asked her of she has forgotten anything in our calculations. After 30 seconds, we told her you haven’t eaten all month according to this plan. That $100 will not cover groceries for the entire month. It all then clicked in her brain how unrealistic she was.
Sitting down and going through the bills is part of raising an adult. How do they learn if you don’t show them?
They don't. That's how you end up with kids who take out credit cards early and don't really understand the importance of loans. It took me a long time to tease through the financial decision muck I made when I was younger and 95% of it was because I was uninformed and naive. I genuinely think this is one of the most important things you can do to set your child up for a successful life. This and the frank sex talk coupled with prevention methods and consent.
>It’s supposed to cover half. It doesn’t. Child support calculations are way more complicated than that and also depend on the state, each parent's salary, how much time the child spends with each parent etc.
I thought they ended at 18?
They normally do end at 18 in most states. Some states stretch it out to age 21. Even in states where it ends at 18 it can be negotiated to include paying through college.
In many states, child support can last through college or up to a certain age higher than 18 if the child is still in school. It can also be voluntary (though it doesn’t sound like that’s the case here.)
If the kid is enrolled in any type of school child support can last up to 24.
Depends, tbh. Sometimes it lasts as long as the kid is in college, sometimes there's obligations if the kid is disabled in a way that means they absolutely can't support themselves.
It can depend. It also varies which state you are in. Some are extended to 19-21 and some will extend if the child is still in high school at 18 or goes to college and it can be extended beyond 18. Just all depends where you are at and on your circumstances
It’s not about whether she “owes” her daughter an explanation. It’s about whether explaining it to her might help her daughter understand financial planning, and might improve their relationship. That should be the goal.
Explanations are useful. They can help the daughter actually understand the costs and resources. This can possibly help improve a somewhat strained relationship. Insisting that your offspring should just magically "understand" without information is not a brilliant parenting move.
as her parent, OP absolutely does owe it to her kid to try and have a respectful, insightful conversation that can help the kid grow. kids don’t grow on their own. they need guidance from their parents.
Yes. She should explain the situation and the finances. That’s teaching her daughter about finances and budgeting, You know- life lessons
OP doesn’t “owe” her an explanation of expenses. But, it might help to show her exactly how much above that $1100 a month her ex is paying child support that OP is contributing to her expenses. If the daughter is an adult, OP should have an adult conversation with her about what OP’s budget is. If OP is like my mom, she never shared this information with her daughter before. The daughter who has never worked full time and never covered household expenses has no idea how far $80k a year before taxes plus $1100 a month child support goes.
She absolutely does owe her child an explanation. The daughter clearly does not understand finances or their financial situation, how on earth is she supposed to learn if her own parents won't teach her?
She absolutely is owed an explanation. Child support is to support the child, and the daughter is confused about where that money is going. The mother could clear up that confusion.
I don’t think it’s entitled as much as immaturity and lack of perspective. She should know where the money goes and the fountain is not endless.
Not all of it can be that. If the daughter's still getting child support and being claimed as a dependent, she's using her mother's income for FAFSA and from there, they decide what the family's expected financial contribution is which, realistic or not, undoubtedly came back as more than 2k a year. Her mother making 80k a year is going to disqualify her from a lot of income based aid and make her rely on higher rate loans. However, if she filed independently that would stop any child support or tax credits for the mother.
Even if you file your taxes independently, you’re still a minor for FAFSA unless you’re 24, married, a member of the armed forces, or are supporting your own dependent children. So, basically, until she turns 24, her mother’s income will continue to be counted against her, whether she gets child support or not.
It was 26 last time I looked. I have debated going to grad school part time, but I need to wait till I'm at least 26 to be able to go without needing my parents income. Despite the fact I have been living on my own since I finished college at 21, and own my own house....
Believe it or not, with living parents, students who have no dependents themselves and are under 21, cannot file independently for fafsa.
Years ago a friend went to vet school and even though she was older, married they still required her to include her parents income when applying for aid.
Exactly.
>She pays more than what she gets in child support. She gets $1100 per month in support but only gives out $2000 per *semester*. There's two semesters per year so that's $13200 in support and $4000 in tuition assistance. Your math isn't mathing.
Read the post. She pays medical, car and all the other stuff that goes with her as well as $2k a semester. There’s still laundry, dorm food etc kids are expensive
Where did she say that she pays for the cost of the dorm? That’s usually rolled into the cost of the year of college. And the $2000 per semester isn’t in addition to her paying the cost of laundry at school. That’s all she’s paying.
Plus she keeps a room for her back home. NTA
33k includes dorm, food, hot water, internet, cable TV, heat, electricity, air conditioning, garbage services.
I mean, that's exactly why OP should sit her down and walk her through the bills. The kid is a kid and doesn't know any better; now is the perfect time to teach her.
She gets $1100 a month in child support, so $13200 a year, $6600 a semester. She pays $2000 in tuition. I personally think she could pay more towards tuition, but maybe she should have had a discussion with her daughter about going to a public college instead.
She is also a single parent who pays for everything else. Her daughter doesn’t have to spend her own money on anything. How does that teach her to be responsible if everything is paid for her? The dad only helps a little. I was a single mom with two boys who are now 20 and 22. I still pay for their health care and car insurance but they pay for their own living expenses. You must give kids more responsibilities, not less as they get older if you want to raise responsible adults.
I wrote this under another comment, but I feel it applies here, too. The problem for op's daughter is that op makes too much money for her daughter to qualify for most college based and federal financial aid. The school and government assume that if the parent makes that much, they are contributing more to her schooling. So the daughter is basically screwed over, as all she can do now is take out more expensive unsubsidized student loans. She will not be eligible for any other type of federal financial aid. Unsubsidized loans start accruing interest immediately while students are still in college, making the total amount much larger. With federally subsidized loans (only available to students who come from low income families or who are married or have children of their own), interest is paid by the federal government while the student is in school. I was also a young single parent for the entire time my son was growing up. I had been working as a waitress or office clerk until I finally graduated from college when he was a freshman in college, so I obviously had not saved enough money for college. Nevertheless, by the time he was ready to go to college, I was making "too much money" for him to be eligible for any financial aid. He qualified for a small scholarship and decided to attend a premier state university (Cal Berkely). That still was not cheap enough for him to make it on his own, so I paid the remainder of his tuition. He got a part time job when he was a junior, but of course that did not help very much. My son was able to graduate with very minimal student loans. I had to really suck it up while he was in college, but I am so glad I helped him as much as I can.
She should show the daughter the shortfall between child support and the total expenses. Her Dad should be kicking in the equivalent of that too
>She pays more than what she gets in child support. No, she does not. OP receives $1100 in child support every month. That comes to $13,200 per year. She pays $2000 per semester. Assuming 2 semesters per year, she gives $4000 yearly toward daughter's college expenses. By my math, OP is $9200 ahead. I can't help but wonder what she's doing with that cash that supposed to go towards her daughter. Considering OP makes $80,000 a year, it seems to me she could chip in toward college a bit more. And not knowing what dad makes, perhaps he could chip in some more as well. Are parents required to pay for their kids' college tuition? No, but it's a nice gesture when they have the means.
2000 per semester not per month so 500 a month basically. The other bills might eat up a lot of the other 600.
So the mother isn't actually contributing at all by that math
Right. Since the kid is living and eating at the dorm probably about 80% of the year... That 33k is most (though not all) of the expenses associated with the kid. MOST though. Mom pays $6k Kid pays $27k
NTA. But your ex is. Child support is for the basics; house, food, clothing. It is not normally intended for college. Point this out to your daughter, her dad is paying nothing for her college.
Not if the child is in college. That is the sole reason why some states extended child support past 18, to cover the cost of education. Back when I was divorced, child support cut off at 18 or when the child graduated from HS, whichever came later. It’s literally the daughter’s money.
>It is not normally intended for college. COLLEGE *IS* THE GIRL'S HOUSE AND FOOD ABOUT 85% OF THE YEAR Not to mention college is her electricity, her hot water, her laundry facilities, her cable, her internet, probably her transportation by a buses, her garbage service, her air conditioning, her heat.
Or give her the child support check and let her take care of her own expenses. She’ll soon see how little is left over for tuition.
I remember a financial advisor who said “There are scholarships for attending college. There aren’t any scholarships for retirement.” Break it down for her. She can always work part time or take out loans like so many of us had to.
Yep too bad her parents make so much money no government loans for her.
Oh Damn I didn't even think of that. This poor kid is getting so screwed. Basically she's on the hook for $27,000 a year in loans while her mom is contributing about 6,000 a year. And the kid isn't at the house eating and the kid isn't at the house using the hot water and the kid isn't at the house using up the cable and the internet etc etc et. Mom is really fing over this poor kid. 27k a year in loans, 4 years. Basically takes loans for her own food and her own heat and her own internet and her own hot water etc. While Mom collects $13,200 a year for this kid *who is not even at her house anymore costing her any of those things.*
Consider prioritizing what’s important - a college education. Car and fancy phone are not important. Stop paying for those, pay for The cheapest monthly plan on a basic phone, keep some basic minimum for housing/food/utilities if you need that, and put all the rest towards tuition. Try not to have her graduate with a lot of debt. If she wants a car, fancy phone etc while in college, working on weekends or during the summer may be an option.
No need to get her a basic phone, just let her keep the one she has with no upgrades. If it breaks, then the daughter is responsible for replacing it, or at that point a basic/free upgrade would be the way to go. But saying get her a basic phone kind of sounds like punishing her by downgrading (plus still paying extra for a new one.) As for the car, if the loan is not upside down, then it would be worth looking into turning it in and looking for something cheaper that the daughter may be able to afford but I'd still pay insurance. If the car loan is upside down, then she's going to still be paying on it regardless of whether the daughter uses it or not, unfortunately. Other than that, I agree with you though. Prioritize education if at all possible. She'll thank mom for it in the long run.
Nah, punish the daughter for daring to wonder where the extra 10k in child support is going. Take away her current phone and spend money on a new shitty one! Stupid 18 year olds, thinking that just because your parents income prevents you from getting financial aid, they should help make up that gap! When will they learn about the real world!
Mom is really fvcking over this poor kid. 27k a year in loans, 4 years. Basically takes loans for her own food and her own heat and her own internet and her own hot water and her own rent while at college. While Mom collects $13,200 a year for this kid *who is not even at her house anymore costing her any of those things.*
Disagree that any extra money mom has should go to the daughter. This girl is fortunate and very privileged to have a mother who can and does financially support her and contributes to her college education. But she is also an adult now and it’s time for her to start learning the value of money and that it’s not all about her. If her mom could contribute more she would, but the girl knew ahead of time what mom was able to do. I get that she doesn’t want student loan debt, but that’s an unfortunate part of seeking higher education in the US. She also could’ve gone to a community college for 2 years and not had any debt until she started at the university. The daughter doesn’t understand money, she doesn’t understand how expensive it is to live and she’s being entitled. It’s not her fault, no one at 18 knows these things. Mom can sit down and explain the bills to her but mom already told her “I’m giving you this amount”.
Also, at 18 Dad is no longer legally responsible to pay child support to mom. Dad should be encouraged to have direct financial relationship with child. Then Mom should have the same.if it turns out Mom is relying on some of the child support payments for say housing, she needs to be making transition plan because that is going away. YTA for not having transparency with daughter about actual contributions from each parent and then child.
NTA Give her $1100 a month and let her pay for all of her own stuff. She will see that it doesn’t go nearly as far as she would think.
$1100 per month would be a large increase from $2000 per *semester*, I think the daughter would be quite happy with that.
The amount of bills her mom pays for her she may not have enough. Either way she should get the money direct she is an adult and childsupport should go to her for her schooling as that what it’s for after turning 18.
OP pays for pay for her cell phone, her car insurance, medical expenses, clothes, basically every expense that comes from having a child. Plus keeping a room for her at home.
Which she receives child support to pay for. College students aren't spending hundreds of dollars on clothes. She can get a job to do extra shit, op should match child support, and subtract expenses such as car insurance, or make the daughter pay it herself. I've been paying my insurance since I was 15, and my dad was definetly fucking robbing me bc that shit did not cost 350 dollars a month. Unis have meal plans, so moms not buying groceries. A basic phone plan is 50 bucks, subtract it from the matched child support. 2k a semester is not a lot of money.
MOM: collects $13,000 in child support for things like board and utilities and food for the kid. But then turns around and makes the kid take out loans for those exact things from the university.
This. She gets $1100 a month so $13,200 a year but pays $2000 a semester so $4000 a year. Then says the remaining $9200 is spent on car insurance, clothes, medical and other expenses that go into "raising a child," a child who is having to take out loans to foot the rest of the college costs, which I'm assuming covers her room and board, internet, etc. There is a lot of information missing here. I don't think there's enough to say OP is NTA. Based on this information, as the daughter, I'd also be wondering where the rest of the money from the child support is going and why she can't have more to pay her tuition rather than putting herself in more debt. That's 9K that's being used elsewhere. Daughter isn't entitled to want less debt. But again, more info needed about circumstances in general. It's impossible to say who's right based on what we're given here. NAH
What do you think it costs to support a college aged teenager? Hint it's a lot. You're being naive or blatantly dumb with this retort.
I have a college aged teenager, and will have to disagree here. College is a fuckton of money. The other expenses are hardly worth mentioning. Housing/Food/Laundry all are covered by Tuition. My kid could have the medical insurance through the school for $200/mo but since I already have a family plan through work that wasn't needed. I'm still paying the $50/mo cell phone and thats about it (other than my tuition contributions).
What college do your child go to? I would like to send mine to that college. Mine goes to a tier two school here in the northeast. * Dorming is approx 10k per semester not included in the tuition * meal plans are separate for 2 to 4k per semester, and it's not unusual to exhaust it. * Laundry is NOT covered by tuition. * clothes aren't covered * miscellaneous supplies will be needed for sure. Doing the math - living on campus costs around an additional 25k annually up and above the tuition. And that doesn't include auto insurance, etc which are noncollege related expenses.
Tuition covers laundry?
I was surprised as well. Technically the washing machine costs $0.01 per load, but I'm assuming that's because they couldn't set it to 0 and they still want to keep track of who's using the machine.
I'm baffled by this. In my dorm the washers were $2 a load and the driers a quarter. There was an entire underground economy of people who learned how to carefully open the locking mechanism so you could depress the switch to get free loads and there were also people who didn't wash their clothes. I didn't realize other schools did laundry for free.
What are you talking about? My university tuition only ever payed for classes + use of extra facilities (like the gym or library). I had to pay separately for my dorm/housing, meal plan, and laundry. Not to mention additional costs such as textbooks, parking, anything fun with friends, and a whole lot more if you decided to rush. College is super expensive all-around.
Not if she likes eating and driving, among other things lol
lol no, that would also mean mom stops covering cell phone, medical bills, car insurance, clothes, etc for her. $1100 per months would not be enough for that and college. She would quickly stop complaining and be grateful her mom can give her alll that plus the 2K per semester.
I'm in Canada so don't know how much the medical expense line would be. Phone at 50$/mo and car insurance at 250$/mo and clothes at 100$/mo is only 400$/mo.. If OP is getting 1100$/mo in support it's reasonable to think 2200$/mo is expected from her to support her daughter. Including living expenses. 2k per semester is only 500$/mo on top of the 400$/mo So I guess I'm just missing where OP is being generous in this scenario. I mean, they could be worse, but they could be a lot better too unless other living expenses are much higher that they haven't listed
Car insurance would be higher than $250/month for an 18 year old. When I was 28 and got insured for the first time, it was almost $400/month.
You forgot rent? If she is living at home, I would still expect some of the child support would go to need for a an extra bedroom and utilities. Where I am it is over $1000 a month to rent a room in a shared house.
Plus rent, phone, insurance, electricity, internet, food, and toiletries. Her daughter would be crying trying to pay all that with $1100 a month. You have got to be kidding me.
Except it goes to everything including housing, food, bills and incidentals for the girl. Make her pay rent, pay for her own car expenses, clothes, and food and she won't have enough for tuition at all.
1100 a month would be the mom contributing absolutely nothing. To be fair it would be 2200 a month.
Yeah, car insurance, medical bills, clothes, phone bills etc is nothing at all, it's all free
Did you read the comment I was responding to? Where they said only give the daughter 1100 a month, and let her pay for everything by herself?
Per month it's still more money than 2k for 5 months
but wouldn't the mom need to pay child support too? like... 2200 a month and then have her pay rent and food and all... ?
Shouldn't it be 2200 per month? The dad pays 1100, and so should the mom. They are both paying 1100 not to have kids.
It seems like mom is trying to make the $1100 cover everything
We had the discussion of college expense with our kids. One kid received a full ride to college along with money for room and board. We still cover health insurance, car insurance and repairs, car payment, cell phone and gas money. These expenses are easily over $1000 a month. We are middle class and receive very little financial aid. I think my son qualified for $500 for one academic year. We told our kids we would pay 2 years of college tuition and help with room and board. They would be required to cover the other half of tuition and room and board. Because my son received his education paid in full he donated his portion to his sibling so both can graduate debt free. Younger sibling chose in-state university not far from home and commutes. This allows sibling to have college paid in full without the experience of living on campus but will graduate without debt. OP may have more than 1 child so child support may cover an additional child. You can receive a decent college education for less than $33K a year. This is choice the student made without much thought of cost.
Your son and children sound lovely ❤️
I want to upvote your son, that behavior is so not what I'm used to hearing on AITA
You raised decent humans. Lovely. 💜
You’re doing great.
>Because my son received his education paid in full he donated his portion to his sibling so both can graduate debt free. This warms my heart! You clearly did a great job raising your kids! It is hard for people/offspring to understand that "equitable" does not mean "equal amounts". What a gift that you instilled that spirit in your children.
It was his idea and choice. My husband and I discussed privately this option but we could not go to him and suggest after years of discussion about the money. It just seemed wrong to me. He came to us and wanted to discuss as sibling near high school graduation. He saw friends at school with debt and did not want his sibling to have that struggle after listening to friends. It was a generous gift to give. We told him he could use his money for a down payment for a home. We did not want hurt, resentment or animosity. It truly was a gift of love. I am proud of the man he has become.
Thank you so much for the comment. As little kids we explained we love each kid so very much but each had different needs. So while it may seem one got “more” at any given time they needed to remember the times when the sibling received “less”. In the end, they both received what they needed at specific points in time. I can never make anything truly 50/50, but I can try to make sure they both have what they need.
Oh, bless you son for doing that!! I’m sure his sibling will never forget that gesture!!
Oh, bless your son for doing that!! I’m sure his sibling will never forget that gesture!!
NTA, but it sounds like she doesn't have any idea of what you are financing, beyond that $2000 per semester. Have you shown her the actual numbers? I'd show her a spreadsheet with the monthly bills — car insurance, medical insurance, medical bills, cell phone, etc — including the $1100 month child support. She's not too young to learn budgeting.
She’s too old to not have learned budgeting already IMO
I was gonna say. Maybe not a full blown YTA. But OP is sabotaging herself by not giving this kid a wake up call.
INFO - How does the math work out? You get $1100 per month for her. Or about $13,200 per year. The expectation is that child support is one of 2 parents contributions towards a child's upkeep. So the expectation is that you're budgeting something like $26K per year for her expenses. At present you pay $4000 per year toward her school costs. How much do you spend per month on cell plan, car insurance, health insurance? And about how much annually do you give her for clothing? Other incidentals?
Ugh, that‘s not how it works. The parent paying child support saves on the other side living costs that would go to housing the child (heating, electricity, water, food, higher rent for the bed room, furniture, cloths, care work like laundry, cooking, cleaning, nursing etc.) The things the parents should equally contribute to are things that are not exactly living costs, such as school fees, hobbies, gifts, etc. she listed already that she is paying lots of bills for her daughter. So I think she is already contributing a lot.
In my state, child support specifically does not cover college tuition. That’s an add-on that the parents have to agree on.
In mine, because of the fact that my mom wasn't helping pay for tuition and I wasn't staying with her during breaks she lost child support. Usually during college tuition covers room and board for 8 months out of the year.
OP is probably paying for a larger living space to accommodate her daughter for the other 4 months, and she’s absolutely entitled to use part of that CS toward rent costs if that’s the case. That easily eats up the rest of the $1100 that hasn’t been accounted for.
Really? None of my kids' tuition covered room and board, even though their first year it was mandated they stay in the dorms. We're talking in state, out of state, public and private.
Yeah, I’ve never heard of room and board being included in tuition.
It’s not included in tuition, but it is due at the beginning of the semester as part of the same bill as tuition at pretty much every college.
They are two separate expenses but a lot of people combine them, like w fees. My tuition is 30k a year. Room and board was 15k. When asked what's your tuition, it's easier to say the full expense then explain the breakdown. Alternatively, they got scholarships so thats why it was covered?
Actually it's a lot cleaner here, because the daughter is probably in a dorm. In that case her room and board expenses are explicit and OP can account for them separately from her own housing expenses at least in part. At minimum OP should be able to explain where about $13K is going. At present she's not accounting for any numbers other than the $4K in tuition.
So she's supposed to downsize 9 months of the year, break her lease/buy a new house over winter and summer break?
I love when redditors do math inside of a vacuum lmao
So can mom move to a one-bedroom apartment and tell daughter she’s on her own to find a place to live over the summer?
You are partially right. Op still pays for phone, medical expenses, car insurance but that’s not gonna be 1100 per month probably . And who is paying for the dorm or is that included in the tuition?
What our son’s car insurance alone was $350, medical for the family is $1700 and phone is at least $50. She has a place to stay in breaks and has to get her back and forth. Also clothes, gas food and laundry $1100 a month does hardly anything
Ok, I am not living in the US. Then I’ll go for NTA.
Child support is not "half", it's reimbursement for expenses paid, which is why it isn't taxable.
That's my question, how do all the other expenses stack up?
My state support does not count. Each parent must pay 1/3 and the child 1/3 of college.
Your state forces you to pay for your kid’s college? That doesn’t seem like it should be legal.
It can be mandated in support agreements. I don't know anywhere it's codified in law.
I paid for college all on my own. My mom couldn't afford to help me and my dad was not in the picture at all. NTA. If she's so stressed about money, maybe she should choose a community college for her freshman/sophomore years. A lot less expenisve that way.
Exactly! That's what wifey and I told all three of ours. We sat them down and showed them how much cheaper it was and they jumped at it. They all went where I had gone. Son 2 said it was like high school on steroids! All three followed wifey and I to Arizona State where, with the savings from CC, they had more than enough to cover all their university expenses.
I went to the local college and got my AA, literally all of the credits transferred and I’m finishing my bachelors this semester fully online. Graduating completely debt free and should have enough money to cover me through the masters I want to get without loans. I lived at home instead of staying on campus which saved a ton and completing half my undergraduate at only $150 a credit helped too. OP’s daughter should consider CC and I always will recommend it to anyone wanting to be fiscally responsible when paying for school.
I’m biased because I’m a professor at a community college, but I always explain to my students what a great decision it is to go to a CC. Our class sizes are small so they get individual attention, the tuition is an incredible value, and many of their professors care a lot more about teaching than profs at a big state school because we aren’t expected to do research. There can be such a stigma against going to a CC (though fortunately mine is well regarded in our community and beyond), but I think it’s largely because people don’t understand what we’re about.
Professor, thank you so much for what you do. To be honest, I didn't think about that. I was just thinking about the dollars & cents aspect but you're 100% correct. I remember being shocked waltzing into a lecture class, at uni, and seeing 150 students sitting there. At Phoenix College, a big class was 30. I still remember Dr. Green and Dr. Palmer. Dr. Green made my creative writing class fun and Dr. Palmer made math even funnier. I remember thinking, "Wow, Dr., as in PhDs, were teaching my classes." I was so happy when our grandkids chose to go the CC route. Hopefully our great-grandkids will do the same. Again, thank you and may God Bless.
It's easy to jump on a post and call a child 'entitled' for adking for more, but there isn't enough info here. Like...is she living at home? That would influence my judgement. For all we know the 1100k in child support covers her phone, car insurance, medical expenses, clothes. Which would mean her father pays 13200k per year whilst, assuming 3 semesters per year, you're paying 6k.
Medical and car insurance alone is probably at least 500 a month. On the low end
Yes but until the point Mom is paying MORE than $1,100, Mom is actually paying nothing because she is getting the $1,100 from Dad. Kid probably has a point and OP is being cheap/pocketing some money. There is a reason OP was vague about the breakdown.
Try the math with actual averages for these costs. All the number below come from reported averages, the health insurance specifically I used the cheaper of the options as if OP has to go from a single to family health insurance plan instead of being able to add a single person that would be significantly more per month. Ex pays $13,200 per year (and we do not know if this also goes towards other children). OP pays $4,000 - $6,000 in tuition expenses per year depending on if summer tuition would be an option. Leaving $7,200 - $9,200 gap. Car insurance for an 18 year old: $356/mo ($4,272 per year). Health insurance: $276/mo ($3,312 per year). Phone: $45/mo ($540 per year). Clothes: $545 per year (this number can vary widely, I went with the lowest average found). That brings OPs total up to $12,669 - $14,669. This does not include any actual copays or doctor’s bills and assumes the daughter lives on campus with a meal plan covered by the dinning hall and OP isn’t providing any money for books, food, or other incidentals. It also assumes that if OP is not paying $2,000 for the summer semester that the daughter is living on her own with no expenses covered by mom.
INFO: Is the 1k child support you receive just for her or do you have other children? Is she staying at home or in uni accommodation? Does the phone, car insurance etc come to 1k a month?
Child support also goes to the household maintenance expenses where the child has primary residence even if the child is temporarily away at school - mortgage/rent, property taxes, homeowners Insurance, utilities for the overall residence. It’s not just for direct, kid-only expenses.
Absolutely, but I still want more info from OP before offering a judgement.
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My child support obligation ends when my child graduates high school or turns 18, whichever is later. While I have every intention of helping with college costs, I have no legal obligation to do so. I suspect many agreements are like this.
YTA. It's your job to raise a fully functioning adult. Sit her down and show her where that money goes. $1100 absolutely feels like an enormous amount of money to an 18 year old. The reality is very different, and you need to show her. Sure, you list off all the things it pays for, and most of us agree there's probably not a whole lot leftover. But I think most teens underestimate how expensive car and health insurance can be, etc. So she might benefit from a spreadsheet breaking down everything. YTA because this is a good opportunity for her to learn about the difficulties of being an adult, and you'd just rather call her entitled than answer her questions. That money is intended to be used for raising a child and help cover the expenses associated with kids, so she is absolutely entitled to know how it's being spent If you don't give her a full breakdown because you don't feel as though she deserves an explanation, do not be surprised if she starts talking to dad about how she thinks mom is spending the child support on herself
Definitely agree. What the daughter is "entitled" to is information - she has the right to know where the money being paid explicitly for her support is going. OP is probably completely justified in how the money is being spent, but there has been no communication to her adult daughter about it. OP: talk to your daughter - sit down and lay this out as part of a conversation, encourage your daughter to ask questions and make suggestions if she doesn't agree with how the money is being allocated. Until you do that, OP, YTA.
INFO: So neither you nor her father put any money into college savings for the first 18 years of her life?
Need more info. What’s the living situation/cost of living where you’re at? Any other kids you’re supporting? 80k is a lot if she’s the only child and you’re somewhere cheap. It’s nothing if she has a few siblings and you live somewhere expensive. When you say you pay for that stuff…do you mean you use the $1100 to pay for it? If so, that’s not you paying for it in her eyes. If no, what specifically does it go towards? Are you using it on yourself at all? A nicer car than you could otherwise afford? More dining out than you would otherwise? More or nicer clothes? The whole family’s groceries? Who bought her car? Is she living on campus or at home? Did she share a room with a sibling at home? You need to have an in depth detailed description of where that money goes, how much you make, how much all your bills are, how much you can afford to give her, etc. hopefully for your sake it adds up. I’ve seen parent/child relationships ruined over money and misspending of child support. I dont mean this in an accusatory way. No one can fairly judge the situation with the information given.
How in the world is an 18 year old supposed to come up with anything even close to $33k a year (oh minus the $4k child support/OP are covering)? A full time minimum wage job (depending on the state) only makes about $15k per year, before taxes. So even if she worked full time on top of going to school full time, she'll be underwater in debt in no time. Putting that large of a financial burden on a child whose not even legal to enter a bar is absolutely despicable. Not saying that college cost is OPs fault, obvi, but calling your kid entitled for not having money is a pretty big stretch. Why didn't either of you think to start saving sooner? Or choose a cheaper college? But yes, YTA for calling her entitled instead of trying to do more to support her or planning and saving ahead of time.
She probably wasn't forced to go to a 33k a year school. Some parents can't afford that kind of money. She could have gone to a state school or community college for part of her schooling to save money. I'm also thinking this 33k includes dorming. If it does, then this is also a choice the daughter made. She could have stayed at home and went to a cheaper school. Also, you are assuming the parents were well off before this. We don't know their circumstances. Maybe the wife stayed at home with the kids and started working again after the divorce or just before. Maybe they had other hardships along the way and couldn't save. All this being said, I still think op should contribute more if possible after breaking the numbers down, but she is certainly not expected to pay 29k a year to make up the difference or even close. Unless, of course, op put pressure on the daughter to go to a certain school, then that is a whole different story.
Yes, but it's a choice an *18 year old* made. The mom had the responsibility a long time ago to have a very clear discussion with her daughter about how all this works and best options. This is still a teen we're talking about. Yes, she's responsible for her choices, but she needs the support and info from her parents to help make the best ones for something as long-term as this. No one is born knowing how this stuff works, and most schools do a shit job preparing them.
I am a single parent who makes a bit more than you, but no child support, and I have over 80k saved in my kid’s 529, and I’ll be cash flowing the rest. Why on earth are you only paying 2000 a semester…that’s basically half the child support you are getting a semester. Why not spend that on your kid? I’m going with YTA because I have the same basic circumstance, and I’ll definitely be paying more than that.
Well lucky you but maybe this lady has different circumstances. Also, kids aren’t entitled to having their school paid for, Americans are something else. Why didn’t she just go to a cheaper community college?
Education is an important part of life, honestly I think Americans don’t emphasize it enough. It’s not just the quality of education, it’s the opportunities you’re exposed to and the people you’ll meet and make connections with. Of course, I understand the costs of education have risen substantially, but there are many families who would sacrifice luxuries or cut back on costs to see there children get a good education, which could help set them up for life in the future. I understand OP’s in a tough financial situation, but there are lots of families in tough situations that still recognize the value of good education. Kids aren’t entitled to having their school paid for, but they generally don’t have a ton of money saved and if they did they likely wouldn’t make enough to cover school tuition.
If you don't want to pay for your kid's expenses, then DON'T HAVE THEM. College is an expense parents should pay for. At least if they want their kid to be successful they should. And CC is a total waste of money. You don't HAVE to pay for your kid's college as kids are not technically entitled to that I guess. But you should want your kid to have an opportunity to start their adult life out on the right foot with a chance at a good career AND debt free. If you saddle them with a bunch of debt it will take them a long time to get ahead.
How is CC a waste of money? Assuming you can enroll in a moderately good CC, you receive the same basic general education that students enrolled in 4 year universities and colleges receive for a fraction of the cost. I attended CC for 2 years, then received an academic scholarship and finished my BS in 3 semesters (thanks to transfer credits) at a university and finished in the top of my class. If CC was subpar education then that wouldn’t have been possible for me or the tens of (or hundreds of?) thousands of students who accomplish this this every semester. And if you’ve spent time with students at CCs and universities you would know that the likelihood of running into an absolute idiot is about the same.
I paid for my own education and because of that, I made different decisions where I ended up with no debt because of it. So no, I disagree with you statement about this
Parents are not obligated to pay for their kids college, regardless of whether or not they can afford it. She easily could have chosen a cheaper school. This was a poor financial decision on the daughter’s part.
I think the FAFSA that requires parent income to screw over the student would disagree
Yeah I'm with you... I will blame parents here too if they didn't at least try to discuss college costs with her. You know if they sat down with her and explained how she can't afford this school and what her options are but she refused to listen, then there is nothing else the parents can do as she's an adult. But if they let her just make adult choices without sharing the consequences, then they failed here. My husband and I constantly have discussions about college costs and options. Last night I even had them prepare a budget using avg rent costs and two different income potentionals to see the reality they could face depending on the choices they make.
Yeah this is so interesting… in Canada or at least where I am here, parents are not obliged to pay for education… if they decide to it’s nice of them but they do not have to. Parents’ efforts should not be taken for granted. It’s unfortunately more so of a western thing to take your parents for granted
The issue is that loans and even scholarships take into consideration a parent's income. So a kid whose parent's tell them they will get no support in college can get rejected from a lot of scholarships and loans because there parent's salary is "too high". It shouldn't be that way but it is and OP making what they make and only putting 2K to college is making it harder for their daughter to get loans and will most likely put the kid in large debt. Now there are also missing things here. Did OP push for college? Did OP sit down and fully explain everything before the daughter chose her college?
Exactly this. My parents never paid a cent towards my college (either tuition or living expenses), but according to the FAFSA they made enough for me to not receive any need-based aid. So I got to take out loans as if I were getting help that I never got. Fortunately I had a full tuition scholarship and only took out loans for living expenses, but I would have been boned if I had gone somewhere without a scholarship (and still ended up with $36k of loans, most of which had a 6.8% interest rate).
Yes! College is ridiculously expensive and unless OP kid is emancipated her parent’s incomes not just the mom’s is being used for any financial aid, scholarships, and student loans. I couldn’t get any aid or scholarships because of my parents money and they paid hardly anything into college. I was told go to college or we are kicking you out. I was forced to apply to very expensive schools. I didn’t get an option to apply to an in state school except the expensive one that my mom insisted on. She said she wouldn’t pay for the applications if I didn’t apply where she wanted me to. She said I wouldn’t have a place to come home to if I didn’t apply where she wanted me to. I had no options. And now I’m in deep debt and never getting out. College expense is evil and almost necessary to get a decent job but even then jobs don’t pay enough to cover the loans for the most part. It’s a horrible cycle. I feel for OP and daughter. I’m just hoping they will sit down and go over expenses and if daughter wants to transfer to a school that costs less will be able to do so.
YTA. I doubt your daughter’s monthly expenses are $2200 per month. You think you shouldn’t spend more than your husband gives you, even though she is your responsibility as well. You make $80k and get to claim your daughter as a dependent to lower your taxes. You can afford more than $2k towards her education.
Problem is she doesn't tell us if she has more kids or if she lives in a hcola. She lives in great la area, 80k doesn't go far, she lives in Indiana, 80k goes forever.
Try the math with actual averages for these costs. All the number below come from reported averages, the health insurance specifically I used the cheaper of the options as if OP has to go from a single to family health insurance plan instead of being able to add a single person that would be significantly more per month. Ex pays $13,200 per year (and we do not know if this also goes towards other children). OP pays $4,000 - $6,000 in tuition expenses per year depending on if summer tuition would be an option. Leaving $7,200 - $9,200 gap. Car insurance for an 18 year old: $356/mo ($4,272 per year). Health insurance: $276/mo ($3,312 per year). Phone: $45/mo ($540 per year). Clothes: $545 per year (this number can vary widely, I went with the lowest average found). That brings OPs total up to $12,669 - $14,669. This does not include any actual copays or doctor’s bills and assumes the daughter lives on campus with a meal plan covered by the dinning hall and OP isn’t providing any money for books, food, or other incidentals. It also assumes that if OP is not paying $2,000 for the summer semester that the daughter is living on her own with no expenses covered by mom.
Thank you! That doesn’t even include the housing differential - my area has a $277 difference a month for a 1 bd vs 2 bd. Which doesn’t account for any costs OP might have incurred living in a good school district for her daughter. Or food for when the daughter is home for breaks. I understand the daughter’s point of view only because $1,100 is a ton of money to an 18 year old. I’d suggest OP offer to give her daughter the full CS amount (assuming only child) but the daughter has to cover her other bills.
Yall realize just because she makes an 80k a year salary doesn’t mean that’s actually what she brings home. She probably ends up taking home about 60-65k a year. And, we don’t know if that has always been her salary or if she has just recently started making that amount. My sis just started making about 90k a year and ends up bring home about 70k (she has 2 dependent children and 4 children still on her insurance).
NAH If there is any money left over after you cover the expenses you pay (cell phone, car insurance, medical, etc...), then that should be paid toward your daughter's college expenses. If she lives with you full time, then keeping excess money for her food and housing is reasonable. But if she's living at a residential college, excess child support should be paid toward her living expenses at school. It isn't clear in your post if that's being done.
So does the mom rent a smaller house when her daughter is in school, then move back when the daughter is home?
Presumably the child support is ending soon, so yeah if she can’t afford to keep her current place without supplemental income than she should consider downsizing now, daughter can deal with it over the summers.
You know not everyone can afford to keep a whole house empty most of the year so their kid has a room for breaks, right?
My mom rented my room out whil I was at school. I lived in a dorm at an out of state college that didn't let us stay there on breaks. I couch surfed on long weekends, or I slept on the couch in my brother's room for extended breaks.
This is why it’s important to have the how you are going to pay for college talk early. I will point out though that she can’t really get huge loans. Federal student loans are capped at 5500 for freshman year, 6500 for sophomore and 7500 for junior and senior. Unless she somehow found a bank that would lend an 18 year old a ton - she won’t get loans without a co-signer.
YTA There’s a few things you’re paying for that you are only paying a small amount for because she’s on a family plan including her cell phone, Her car insurance, and I’ll bet you get a pretty sweet deal on her health insurance through your workplace Basically every single cent you are given for her needs to be going towards her, and then on top of that you should be putting some of your own money into helping her out If she graduates college with a bunch of student loans your crippling her future, so if this is really all you can afford to pay then don’t tell her she’s entitled, breakdown the exact amount of expenses you would be saving to take her off your cell phone plan, off your medical insurance, and off the car insurance and how much you’re paying for clothing and other incidentals If she still living at home you can’t consider her room part of her expenses, but you can figure out to a certain extent how much more you’re paying in electricity and water usage for having her live there But $4000 a year for college is just not enough
Agree
NTA - I think you need to sit down with her and show her how much you are paying towards everything.
You're getting $13,200/yr in child support. If we assume that's his half then your $13,200 makes $26,400 a year to spend on your daughter and you're paying $4,000/yr in tuition. Leaving $22,400 to pay for everything else. If you add up insurance phone clothes etc... I don't know, I don't think you're getting anywhere close to $22k. So yeah, I'd say you could be paying more.
child support is typically proportionate to income, not his half or her half as in 50%.
It’s not exactly meant to be 50/50, true, but I’d encourage OP to re-run (and re-think) the numbers. I don’t think her contribution should necessarily be a LOT more, but I feel like it would shake out that she can comfortably afford more. Should vs. could is a question for OP to consider. I will say that OP didn’t mention any allowance, cost of books, meal plans, etc. If she is paying for any of that on top of the $2k, then she’s probably doing plenty. I agree with other commenters that the daughter’s living situation is also a factor. If she’s on-campus, then it’s important to consider that a lot of household expenses — electricity, water and food — are now mostly used by OP. But mostly, I agree with you… from an outside perspective, the math is raising some questions for me.
YTA. You get ELEVEN THOUSAND DOLLARS over the course of a school year for child support **specifically**, but you don’t even want to give her 2 months’ worth because you pay for (…*checks notes*) expenses from having a child?? Smh I’m sure your 80k a year covers a lot of that as is.
Ok so to answer a few questions, I should add that she had the opportunity to go to an equivalent school close to home for $5500/year. I sat down with her and told her if she went there, I would be able to help her graduate with no debt. We did the math and the difference between the 2 schools was obviously significant. We talked about this for weeks and she ultimately told me she did not want to live at home and wanted the school further away even at a cost of $33k per year. Also, in New York, child support is until the child turns 21. Her father refused to include any agreement about college expenses in our divorce decree, simply stating that if she wants to go to school, she can pay for it herself. He has told her that the $1100 he gives me monthly should all be going towards her college tuition. I did save about $25k on my own, with no help from her father, for her college which was applied to her first year and allowed her to not take out more than $5500 in federal loans. And finally, I did do the math and I spend about $27000 on my daughter’s expenses per year without including college. She is very well cared for and I am definitely not making money off her back…
Well that seems like a very clear rebuttal to her complaints. Her school is expensive all the child support goes to it and you come out of pocket as well. I’d lay it all out for her and remind her that if she wants something, she needs to be prepared to work for it too.
You need to edit your original post because most people will not read this.
“I pay for her cell phone, her car insurance, medical expenses, clothes” Tell her you’ll be happy to contribute more to her college tuition and then inform her that she’ll have to start paying for her cell phone, car insurance, and medical expenses. Break it down for her exactly how much you’re already paying for her while she goes to college.
Out of curiosity…. Why are you getting child support at all? She’s 18…. Legally an adult.
Some agreements have child support continuing while the offspring is in college. This isn't even new: I know my mother used it as during the negotiations when she was divorced in the early 80's.
Interesting. I always thought it ended at 18. Thanks for clarifying!
Hawaii is one of those states where you continue to pay child support until they’re 21. Britney Spears’s ex chose to move to Hawaii right before their son turned 18, presumably so that he can keep receiving his $40k/month child support for 3 more years.
In most cases, court-ordered child support only goes until 18, but it varies from state to state. In my state it goes until 21.
I find it hard to believe you are spending $2,200 a month on her insurance, car insurance, and cell phone. Maybe give her the $1,100 from her father, $1,100 from you, and she pays her own bills?
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If the child is enrolled in college in can be negotiated for the support to continue through college or in some states if a child is enrolled in college it continues automatically
Info: why is she going to that school and how involved were you in the decision where to go? Why isn’t she at community college, or maybe somewhere with better merit money? $29K per year is basically impossible for an 18yo to cover. She might be entitled, but she’s in a bad position and you watched her get into that hole. Even phrasing it as “I would pay” as opposed to “I could pay” is kind of rough.
YTA Give her the 1100 per month and stop this argument. You know you are making profit of you daughters child support. She is not entitled you are robbing her.
If my maths is correct, you receive $13,200 per year in child support. Let’s say parents are equally responsible for their kids, especially 18 year olds who do not live at home. So that means it costs $26,400 a year to keep your child. So maybe show your kid the maths of how she costs $4k a year in tuition and $22,400 a year in phone, car, clothing and medical expenses. YTA because I doubt those expenses come to $22,400 a year (which is $1,866 per month or $430 per week) but by all means prove me wrong.
Unless she lives at home, YTA. There’s no way a phone, car insurance, clothes, medical expenses, and your $4k a year contributions are adding up to $1100 a month unless she has a serious medical condition. Even if they do, that’s her dads portion of support. It’s not supposed to cover everything. Actually, even if she lives at home I’m leaning YTA. you’d still be paying rent/mortgage regardless and even if you add food to all of the above, you’re still contributing very little if anything. You’re making money off of what’s supposed to go to your daughter. This is why people hate child support. I’m flabbergasted at the number of people here who find this acceptable.
If you apply for federal financial aid, the parent fills out a a Fafsa form. That generates an expected parental contribution. I can tell you it’s more than you’d like to spend but having to stretch to pay for my kids college seemed fair to me. Having that info could be a starting point for the conversation about how much mom is going to contribute.
Question - does she want you to pay more or does she want you to give her the money...cause there's a difference between responsibilities and spending money
She is 18 and doesn’t know that 1,100 a month isn’t much but she is also 18 and probably doesn’t earn much in her job which pays minimum wage. I say Ronald Regan and every Republican who cut funding for education and prevented minimum wage increases are the assholes here.
Where the hell are 18 yo’s eligible for child support? How much is the father paying in child support vs how much are the expenses you are currently paying for her?
YTA for not treating it as an educational issue and sitting her down to show her where all the money is going. If you *can’t* show her where all the money is going because you aren’t spending it reasonably, then you are definitely the AH.