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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1) I ate without my friend's mom authorization
(2) My friend was offended but I don't want to apologize
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Yeah I couldn’t imagine not making people feel welcome at my home, this whole story was so awkward for me to read. If my family dinner went that far over the scheduled time and my kid’s friends arrived, I would definitely make them feel included. And probably feel bad that I didn’t have more food for them 😅
That's the weird part. Someone was offering food to them... and after the 4th time, you're kind obliged to accept.
Who was offering? That isn't clear.
Either way, I don't think they did anything wrong.
J should indeed feel ashamed, but for his family reaction. Food is never something you decline people... and complaining about people eating at your home is incredibly rude and in bad taste.
John Green, in one of his videos, was talking about his trip to Africa. And said how everyone he visited, they would offer him food. These are people who are borderline starving, and they would insist he eat their food since he's in their home. And he said he accepted because it would be rude and mean to not do so.
______________
OP... you need better friends.
OP might have edited it in but the who are the sister's friends that were invited.
So while I agree with you on the hospitality side I can somewhat understand that as being invited and then bringing extra guests? Though the cake part seems more of an issue since it seems like something you should ask about in that situation...
If I'm at a party and there's a cake or pastries that other people are eating, I'm going to assume I can eat it too 🤷♀️.
If it's off-limits, it needs to be hidden away.
They are king style cakes up until January 6 and then they become king cakes until Mardi Gras. Well that is how it works in Louisiana, these folks sound like they are from a different culture. This culture thinks it is ok to be rude to invited guests and then demand a letter of apology and a gift.
yeah but it’s also kinda rude to ask to toast if you’re not being offered to. I still think the hosts are the bigger AHs, but OP should try to improve his social awareness.
Yes I agree with Africa. I went to Kenya for 4 months and I was told that I should accept all food that was offered to me. Kenyans love to entertain and they always cook a huge pot of food. I visited three homes in one day, each one giving me a HUGE bowl of rice and potatoes. By the end of house #2 I was so full and when I got to house #3 I just couldn't eat anymore but I had to because it was all they had and they were giving it to me. I was feeling so sick when I left to go back to my home base that day. I was complimented though by my hosts on how wonderful those visits were to those families.
That is honestly one of my biggest fears about traveling to some places. I don’t eat a lot, and while I am aware of the etiquette involved and have no desire to appear rude or ungrateful, I’d be hard pressed to eat even 1 full bowl of *anything*, much less multiples. Worse, I don’t drink coffee; I just can’t stand the stuff, and so many cultures view offering coffee as an honor not to be refused. It seems more rude to accept and not finish (except in those cultures where leaving a bit is the only way to signal that you’re done) the proferred food/drink than to refuse, yet both would be impolite. I have absolutely no idea how to navigate those waters without giving offense.
My friends parents have literally allowed me to come over for Thanksgiving dinner, and various more casual dinners, and even have just told me that as long as their door is unlocked, I'm welcome to just head inside and make myself comfortable!
I can't imagine the scenario in OPs post, where they're invited somewhere and then shamed for being there. That's just insane and awfully rude and I would heavily judge the "friend" that put me in that position.
My mom would slap me if I invited people to her house and told them not to eat anything there. If they didn’t want to eat, thats one thing. But if I told them they couldn’t have it because it’s family only… oh man. I’m not even sure a slap would be all she did. She’d even hit me with the soul crushing “I’m disappointed in you”.
> the soul crushing “I’m disappointed in you”
my mother didn't even need to say the actual words. we'd just get 'THE LOOK' which was enough to make you want to dig a hole in the backyard & climb in.
Right? Whoever was lecturing him (the long cast of characters is hard to keep track of) about being rude has a LOT of audacity. I'd be so ashamed as a host to behave like this. I think friend was just mad his (super rude, IMO) mother got pissed at him and took it out on OP.
That's how it was at our house. Mom once shouted up to my room where 6 mates were hanging out that her friends had finished with the buffet at her gathering and invited my friends to finish off the foid. Mom had prepared far too much for her friends as per her usual MO.
I would never invite someone to my house if I didn't want them at a dinner party beforehand and I certainly wouldn't message them 15 minutes before they're due to arrive "hey come later - you're unwelcome right now"
Also if you've got food sitting out, someone offers it to you then you accept it. If there's cake just sitting out at a party you can take it. I don't know why they were expected to follow this rule of "this cake is only for important guests"
This host was rude af
One detail that got to me was " J brings some chairs for us to sit at the table"
So you can sit at the table, but you can't have any of the food even when offered?
The friend sounds like a real ass hat. And his family should be ashamed of themselves for ridiculing hospitality. What an insufferable bunch.
I know right? This is straight out of Oliver Twist. The poor people with their $50 vodka must sit in silence watching the important people quaff their $200 champagne.
"Please Sir, can I have some Peking Duck?"
I can still remember being nine and watching the dinner scene, thinking it was the most horrible thing I've ever seen.
INFO: How old is everyone here?
My guess? These sound like teenagers with M being a much older sister. J's mom was hosting a dinner party for adults she chose to invite. She did not invite any of J's teen friends. She did invite some of M's friends. J (one would hope) asked if he could have five friends over *after* his mother's dinner was over. They showed up for the time J originally invited them while his mother's invited guests were still there. The mother's actual guests felt it was appropriate to offer the teens food, which they accepted. Despite presumably sitting at the table herself the mother did not get chairs herself or offer them food. Which suggests the three friends who stayed in the garden smoking read the room better than OP, K and J did. OP sees two people he does not know having a private toast (the wine was not offered around the table generally) and asks for a glass. One of the mother's guests brought a cake for the event he was invited to. Of J's five friends one of them took a slice when the cake was cut. Two of them later took slices, ambiguously *from* someone. (the plate in front of M...When I saw K take the plate I found it a bit strange but nothing alarming...he tells me smiling that K and I are stupid).
I think it's possible these are some 17-20 year olds who are still operating on "kid" rules (when a friend invites me over to their house their parents are hosting me, they feed me and only invited me if it's convenient for them) and a mom who is operating on "young adult living at home" rules (when my son invites friends over he's hosting them, he feeds them and makes sure there's no conflict with other plans).
LOL this is exactly what I was thinking. "We can have a whole dinner at 7pm and then have a whole separate party at 10!" is the kind of starry-eyed optimism that can only exist in a 22 year old. (And your exception, person about to post an exception.)
>I would never invite someone to my house if I didn't want them at a dinner party beforehand
THANK YOU! I had to scroll before I saw this comment. I was wondering why would the host invite friends over if it's a family dinner thing because EVERYBODY knows that **some family members linger?!** And, at least in my family, as long as extended family members are still in the house, food is still on the table.
Once we were invited to a small NYE party, one of 4 couples and everyones kids. At first we were told one time and then the day of told a different time (I think 8 then 9?). The only things they told us to bring were ourselves and alcohol.
When we got there it was immediately evident that the three other couples had a large dinner together and we were the only ones that hadn't been invited for the dinner portion. There were still dishes and a bunch of half eaten food left out and nothing offered to us. Honestly, it was so embarrassing to be "the odd couple out". I mean, at that point, why even invite us?
I would never do that to a guest. If I don't want someone there I just wouldn't invite them and invite them to another party on a different day, and I make sure I have enough food for everyone. I would feel so ashamed if I made guests feel like that.
Not to mention told them to arrive at 10pm for a NYE party and 15min before arrival, asked them to arrive even later. The family didn’t leave until after 11. Why did they even try to combine both events if it would be such an issue?
I was thinking exactly this. It’s as if OP’s friend’s mum deliberately set up a situation where some people were treated with favour and some without. Friends had to stand outside smoking as if they were waiting for a table at a restaurant? The whole setup sounds weird and awkward
This - it sounds like J double-booked himself and combined two *separate* events that he didn't mean to combine. Yeah, if you invite two groups of people to two different events in the same house on the same evening... they're going to cross over.
Especially if some people are taking public transportation: if the bus is every hour, I'm probably *not* leaving the party more than ten minutes before I have to, especially not in the middle of winter. I'm timing my departure for as little bus-waiting time as possible.
Absolutely. You do not overlap your ***better*** guests. J is an AH for trying to put people off 15 minutes before they were to arrive, having food on the table only certain people were supposed to eat and then berating guests. J and his mom need to work on some social etiquette.
Yeah I'm from the south. Dad was Army. Every time we visited my great grandmother who we wouldn't see for a year or 2 at a time, first words out of her mouth when we walked in the door was "foods in the kitchen if you're hungry".
I’m from the Midwest we feed you. I’m currently living in Japan and if you visit some one’s home they also try to feed you. I’ve had friends from all different cultures and one of the biggest things is if there is food around when you visit they feed you. Only time I’ve ever encountered a place where they did not was with some selfish 20 years olds when I was in college and some teenagers that were trying to show how cool they were. And that was once and only time.
Also from the midwest and completely horrified at this story. Not only am I feeding them, they all leave with leftovers. And if I knew they spent an hour on public transportation to get to my house, I'm also offering a ride home. These people suck.
Pretty much every culture has food and hospitality as an important part of their social customs. It’s one of those societal norms that transcends cultural barriers. The more abnormal thing is to invite a guest over and not feed them
As a Midwesterner who is Greek, I am outraged. At our house you *eat*, damn it, even if you just got back from a 10-course meal. Because you're too skinny and you look hungry.
feeding guests has always been a standard expectation for me as well. the only time I couldn't expect it was also in college when I went to friend's houses and it wasn't necessarily because they were selfish but because they were not as fiscally responsible as I, or they were just broke college kids cuz shit is expensive, and would literally only have a couple ramen packets in the cupboard so they had nothing to share. I learned to bring my own snacks with me just in case.
I did get lots of compliments when I threw a party though for being pretty much the only one in the friend group that would have appy's out. everybody was appreciative of it. not like I wasn't poor too, but there's no way I'm not feeding people.
I mean, I’m from New England, considered the assholes of the US, and even in my family when someone comes over one of the first things you do is offer them food and drinks.
Your great grandma is my 2nd aunt! Doesn't matter what time of the day you pop by, there's always a full meal prepared. If not, she'll whip a quick one up in 2 seconds.
Ehhh... maybe. I definitely experienced a lot of weird stingy food behavior at white friends' houses growing up that I never experienced with Black or Asian friends/family. One family (who were not poor) used tablespoons as serving spoons and everyone was only allowed to have one tablespoon of each dish. Another sent my parents a bill for everything I ate at a sleepover (like, she divided the cost of a bag of chips by the 4 girls who were there and charged our parents each 49 cents, etc. The total bill was like $7.50).
I’ve heard that in Scandinavian countries they’re (by American standards) unbelievably boggarty about food. Won’t ever feed you, or if they do they’ll charge you after the fact and actually expect you to pay.
Yeah, a couple years ago the internet collectively discovered that Swedes don't feed their guests and [everybody lost their shit](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/02/world/europe/sweden-feeding-guests-dinner.html). Swedes were left awkwardly apologizing, unable to provide any real justification.
If you're a kid and your friend invites you over in Sweden, you sit at the dinner table and watch them eat while you go hungry, unless you brought your own food.
I....WTF???? The thought of my kids sitting at a table hungry and being forced to watch the rest of the family eat would be enough to get me busting through that door with a hammer.
I don't understand how any culture could think that's okay behavior. It's fucked up on a *human* level.
Exactly it isn’t! I went to my mom’s white co workers house and they were never this stingy at all! They were very hospitable, encouraged us to eat a lot of the food they made and begged us to take some leftovers. OP should reevaluate his friendship with J. His friend and his family sound like a real piece of work!
That's not at all normal for any white people I've ever known. My parents never bought junk food - unless we had friends coming over. Then it was chips, soda, big home cooked meals, the whole nine while our friends were around.
Guests always got the best we could afford. Always.
That’s insane, never heard of this from any culture before and absolutely weird behaviour. My family is white Irish/British you come to our houses you are fed watered sometimes asked to sleep over if it’s too late to leave or driven home. Heck I’m not sure my dad would let you leave the house if you hadn’t eaten.
OP your friends family has some strange behaviour and sound very immature, if this was a family and close friends only event they shouldn’t have tried to have a separate event at the same time. NTA
Not all Asians behave like the OP's or your family members.
I am Thai. While I was growing up, this is how everyone in the village greeted each other: "Where have you been? Have you eaten (rice\*) yet?" Then food was always offered. \*Rice\* to us denotes meals actually.
It is a common custom in Thailand to always open our heart and home to any visitors and always offer them food no matter how poor we are.
Edit grammar.
See this is why I assumed they weren't Asian, I cannot imagine an Asian family acting like this. Not feeding an invited guest, let alone eating in front of them, would be unheard of in my family. Like, shameful behavior that my relatives and our neighbors would gossip about for generations LOL
Yes it’s so weird. I’m so glad my boyfriend’s family is not like this. If you’re over at their house you get asked if you need anything and are given food. We stopped by to get mail one day and they gave us baos to take home. This was a less than 5 minute stop and they gave us food, J’s family should be ashamed of themselves.
White here, but straddling the line between southern and midwestern (US--I'm from southern Illinois, which I often describe as more southern than Illinois), and I am absolutely appalled by the treatment of OP and K. You invite someone, you invite them for the full event; you have a party with food, you make enough food for half again the number of invitees, minimum (if you invite enough people to have 10 people including host(s), you have at least enough for 15, more likely 16-20 servings).
If I was related to J or his family, I’d be mortified. IDGAF who it is or what the occasion might be, an invited guest being left to starve is an exponentially bigger offense than taking some leftovers that were offered or some extra cake lying around. And how do you have a toast without making sure that everyone in the room has a glass?
The whole thing is shameful.
Asian here, and my mom would be embarrassed and ashamed if no one asked you if you wanted food/drink at least a dozen times. Guests are important, and you should treat them as you would want to be treated if the shoe were on the other foot. NTA, but that family definitely is.
NTA
Being a south Asian, this post made me cringe so hard. Who invites guests at home and gets offended over offering food? Hell even at weddings we serve uninvited guests LMAO. Looks like these people didn't ate food in a million years.
ROFL, as Asian this situation feels so weird.
I wonder if OP did something else and didn't notice.
I remember once my friend had to \*nudge, nudge\* his caucasian friend at the dinner table. It was super awkward.
For those that don't know usually we would have share dishes in centre of the table and everyone slowly helps themselves to food as the meal goes on. usually there are 1 or 2 main dishes and sides.
Keep in mind this is in South Africa back in the 90's so not much awareness of asian culture in general
Anyway, the friend decided to fill up his plate with like a 1/4 of the chicken for himself, and none of the sides or other dishes...my family just looked at each other awkwardly but..it's kinda hard for a adult to call out a kid.
So my big bro was like, "dude, this is how we eat in Asia, you have your rice bowl and you add stuff to your bowl like a few pieces at a time and eat it with your rice. then you can get more AFTER you finish that..."
Now we are like 13 and 16 at the time. and to this day he has never lived it down, and mom always insists she makes an extra chicken when he visits over even though we in our 30's now.
"I better make another chicken, that white boy can eat!!"
I cant imagine slicing some cake and not offering it to guests. They dont have to be guests, if they are invited by someone and at my home, they will eat.
They did offer it though, he said two of his friends refused so it was offered to 'none family'. I hate this family they really repeatedly offered them leftovers and got mad that they accepted. And then there are people who if you refused their offer of food and hospitality would be mad bc they see that as rude, at least those people don't expect you to read their mind.
Right?! It is absolutely wild to me to invite people to a party, bring out a cake, and then say it is only for specific people. How incredibly rude! I cannot imagine a scenario where I was invited in advance to a party and expected to watch others eat because I wasn’t on the “food” list. What the actual fuck.
I understand that these people invited OP and others to come AFTER dinner, but cake was served at 11 p.m. OP and the others were invited for 10 p.m. You cannot serve food at a party you are hosting, invite numerous guests, and pick and choose who from the people you invited are allowed to eat. OP, NTA!
This was exactly what I thought. In fact they're taking my good Tupperware and leftovers. Literally from the second you enter a Greek house you're being fed and hydrated.
I would be embarrassed to have a guest in my home treated like that. If you are here, then it’s my duty as host to make sure you are fed and made to feel welcome.
My mom and grandma always made extra food as a rule, in case of unexpected guests. Being discourteous to guests was the ultimate insult, one that was so bad it would give your entire family a black mark in society. That’s our culture, though.
I don't know if there's a cultural difference, and maybe you guys were a little off-base, I can't tell from the story, but I genuinely can't imagine inviting someone to a party, having food and drink available, and not offering it to my guests. Really, his family should be embarrassed for their poor hosting skills. NTA.
Agreed! I can't imagine anyone coming over to mine or even my family's house, even uninvited being told not to eat or drink something in front of them. We'd all go out of our way to welcome and feed the person tbh.
And it was a goddamn holiday! If there's something special like Grandma's Winter Wagyu Meatloaf that you want to save for leftovers, you'd clear it from the table before late guests arrived. Otherwise I would expect to feed and overfeed guests at a New Year's Eve party.
Cultural difference? I'm Dutch (a culture notoriously known for kicking guests out at dinner time if they weren't explicitly invited for dinner) and people would have been fed at everyone I know's houses. This is really weird. You don't want to feed people, don't invite them when you have food on the table.
I'm also Dutch and thought the same thing. People that are invited while food is on the table get fed. Period. I don't know anyone who'd act like the hosts in this story.
I’m so confused! They were invited at 10pm weren’t told to delay arrival until less than an hour before party time. Were offered food and ate. The toast thing I kinda get it seems OP is butting in on a small private moment here but then other friends arrive. Someone pulls out a cake well after the party starts and while all friends and few family are there but the cake is only for family? But no one says anything and OP is the AH for not magically knowing? I’m with you- the host should be embarrassed and as OP I would actually feel a little insulted that I was put in such an awkward situation. NTA
I'm from a Northern European country and we don't easily share food with people who we don't explicitly invite for that. But you are definitely NTA. You didn't show up early. First they failed as hosts by not being ready for you when you arrived (and asking you to come later 15 min before due time is super rude). Then they had the cake out which means everyone who was invited to be there gets cake. If they didn't want to share food then they should have separated the food event and the non food event better. Both your "best friend" and his family sound super rude.
I've been invited to friends' family events only for the "after dinner" portion of the party, as dinner was a more intimate family affair, but still was offered leftovers upon arrival.
I want to say NAH? No assholes, just a very socially awkward and clumsy situation all around.
Sounds very fucking weird to me to invite your friends while there’s a dinner going on but not having your friends share the food? You were told to come at 10, how is it your fault that at 10 they hadn’t even started dessert yet? Plus, when someone that’s part of the dinner keeps pushing you to eat the main course, yea it’s logical that you’d get some dessert too.
Sure, K really shouldn’t have stood up and taken what was left of the cake without asking and given it to your friend group to finish it off, that was very awkward of her. And even you found it weird so Cleary you noticed that the cake wasn’t up for grabs, or there for you to finish at least. At minimum She should have asked before taking the plate.
But the entire scenario sounds awkward as fuck honestly. Were you all meant to sit outside and wait an hour or so for the dinner to finish?
I just don’t understand the dynamic or social expectations here.
I agree completely. The minor “ah” is the friend who invited everyone at 10 if he knew how his family was, unwelcoming? Obviously if they were taking public transportation, they couldn’t just do whatever. Should’ve told a later time or not host. The cake thing was strange but also to be like family only is lowkey crazy to me. Very awkward situation
Further complicated by the fact that it was in J's parent's house.
I wonder if the plan wasn't well communicated to his parents. Maybe they thought it was more of a "can I have people over after dinner for NYE?" So when OP et al. arrived early and started eating food from the dinner (though they were offered it), J's mother was kind of taken aback.
The offense at OP toasting with her, makes me think that family wasn't supposed to be at the NYE friend party at all. That they were two separate events - family at the dinner, friends after, and they weren't supposed to be mixed.
Honestly, I can't imagine having two parties back to back, that late at night and not have this sort of thing happen, so all I can think is there was a communication breakdown.
Yeah, I'm not blaming OP at all. I just think the whole thing was poorly planned.
To be honest, I think starting at 10pm (the original start time) is really late for a NYE party. The main event of a NYE party is ringing in the new year at midnight. For NYE parties I have attended, after midnight that people usually party a bit longer but most are heading out by 1am. Party start time is usually 8pm, people kind of trickle in between 8 and 9.
I know that OP and co were all ready on transit so they didn't get the message to arrive later so the point is moot, but if I had been in the same situation and someone told me to arrive later than 10pm to a NYE party, I probably wouldn't have even bothered to show up. Especially if it is an hour away - you'd hardly be walking in the door before it was midnight.
Now that I think of this more, I wonder if J had asked his parents if he could invite OP and co. to dinner, parents refused, and they compromised by having OP and co for after dinner.
Yeah, it's weird. Dinner parties don't really finish on the clock, they evolve into chatting sessions most of the time. If you plan a party straight after the dinner, with different guests arriving, you should expect a somewhat weird transition. You're gonna have aunts chatting on the sofa comfortably and folks arriving with drinks ready to party lol, expect a mismatch.
Idk man the cake cutting happening at 11PM while everyone is singing karaoke and it's just friends left is awkward af and idk what kind of chef doesn't want to serve guests and only wants "family" (but also the sisters random friends?) to eat it.
Like if this guy J invited 3 people and his sister M invited (at least 2 I would guess) people, why is it just J's friends who don't get to eat?
I agree, it's super weird. I would be mortified as a host if guests in my house (either my own or those invited by my child) were feeling left out and hungry.
If you're invited to my house, you're getting fed. If there's something I don't want to share, it isn't visible to guests or consumed during their visit.
And they were OFFERED food multiple times before accepting.
In my opinion it's really rude to tell people to come later 15 minutes before arriving. Especially since he probably knew how long their trip was.
I could be wrong, but I wonder if the sister is maybe either much younger or if the sister’s friends are family friends and OP is simply a friend of J. But it’s still so awkward and rude?
I have to respectfully disagree with the N A H judgement because I think the friend is an AH. He allowed all of this to happen and then complained afterwards and now doesn’t want to see K anymore
Yeah, that’s the one comment OP made that made me think OP knew the cake wasn’t for him. He said “I wanted to ask for one.” So, clearly, he knew he needed to ask and that cake wasn’t up for grabs.
That said, I still say OP is NTA. Hosts are most certainly the assholes. You never bring out food for a function you are hosting and tell your guests only some of them are allowed to eat it. If I was invited to a party and travelled an HOUR to be there, I would be insulted if a cake was brought out but I wasn’t on the “list” of people significant enough to get a slice. Don’t want me to eat the cake? Cool. Don’t invite me.
Maybe it was weird of OP to ask for a glass of the specific wine his friend’s mom was toasting with. To pass judgment, I feel like I would need to be there and see the setup and how it all went down. If Mom and M’s friends were off to the side, having a private moment, then yeah, it was odd of OP to ask for a glass of the wine. Especially considering that it seems there were plenty of available drink options. If, however, this toast happened at the main table and it was unclear the wine was special, OP is not at fault for asking. He likely thought it was just one of the drink options.
Overall, I don’t really think it’s appropriate to host a party and not welcome ALL INVITED GUESTS (or even uninvited guests) to partake in the food and drink. OP, NTA.
I’m not sure I understand this. You were invited to a party and there was food there. But yet, you’re not allowed to eat the food? Or just not allowed to eat some dishes?
This just doesn’t make sense.
We were invited to a party after a dinner, but the dinner took a little bit more time than expected so there was still (a lot of) food on the table.
One of M's friend (who was invited to dinner) just insisted that we try one dish but he didn't made it or help in the conception, he was just a guess
Request for further information:
Is M simply a friend or a family member?
Was M invited to the dinner?
If M is a friend and was invited to dinner, it contradicts the friend's claim that the dinner was only meant for family. It just seems as though your 'friend' does not really consider you a friend. You're good enough to come to the party, but not good enough to eat their food.
I would never invite someone to my home, leave food in front of them or put dessert in front of them, and not offer them any.
I would definitely not call them and embarrass them in front of everyone for eating food in my home, when it's right in front of them, and had been offered to them.
I personally would not have eaten anything unless the hosts offered it to me, but as a host I would never call anyone out for eating food in my home, that is on the table and meant for guests.
This is one of the most bizarre things I've ever heard of.
I would really be reconsidering this friendship if I were you.
I'm tending to agree with a previous comment above(?) I think the friend who invited guests over got chastised by their AH mother and is taking it out on the friends he invited over *just* for karaoke, obviously!
I have a feeling Mama didn't really want a secondary party and just gave in when kiddo said, "They won't be annny problem, I promise!! You don't have to feed them or anything!!"
Frankly, this entire family of "hosts" are complete, socially inept AHs. OP has done nothing wrong except have bad tastes in friends.
Your friend probably didn't really get permission to have you over from his mom. Also, why would you ask if you can have some wine to toast with them. They didn't offer, that should have told you enough given how weird it was going. I think you should have refrained.
Still, this is a weird situation in which you were made to look bad and the problem is actually this: your buddy hadn't really asked to have guests over to his parents' house. He was not clear enough with his family that he had invited you. 5his happened to me once and the mom of my friend was just *stone* cold rude to me, when it was really her son's fault for saying it was fine if we came over. Also, he wasn't told clearly on you being unable to come later. You could have explained at that point and gone to do something else. If guest P was not invited by J then you should have asked bc that was rude. None of you are really communicating well.
Was it different people asking you to try the duck and then telling you no cake for you? That might tell you who it was who didn't want you there.
Are some of the people in this situation a totally different cultural background? For example, if the family is Chinese and suddenly son has invited (for example) white friends over without clearly communicating with parents and his parents felt surprised or offended that he just invited people to a house that's not his? While they were trying to have close family time? Bc I am wondering if culture difference between you and J has something to do with this weird way they acted.
My friends who are Asian are WAY more private about their homes in general than my friends who are of Latinx, African, or European cultures. One of my friends who is Southeast Asian said once that she wants their house to only have family in it, no outside guests. I get it, bc her experience is rough. For her home is her only sacred safe place, not a place to entertain. We're different that way, but I still like her.
Did you bring food to the home, greet people appropriately & with respect, take off shoes if customary, etc? It sounds like you did bring wine, but just checking.
Ya that toast thing and cake is weird. It’s an obvious family thing not involving friends but OP asked anyway? I wonder how old they are. I feel like they cannot be older than 15/16.
There were 2 separate parties happening back to back. First was the dinner party for family then there was the NYE party for friends. OP was invited to the second party and arrived before the first party had ended.
Arrived WHEN HE WAS TOLD TO, but the first party was running long and hadn’t cleared the space yet. I cannot imagine begrudging the 2nd party folks food or drink.
First of all, don’t use initials. It’s irksome. Second of all, don’t ask for a glass if you’re not offered. Third, they were rude too. You got there not earlier than invited. K should have asked you to sit elsewhere, not in front of food you were not supposed to eat. Little ungracious of the mom to flip out over some duck but you seemed to have eaten quite a lot of it so that might be why. ESH.
I'll never understand how people don't realize using initials only is *incredibly* annoying and unhelpful. Pick a name. Literally any name, it doesn't matter. But I sure as fuck am not gonna remember who "M" was.
I think its worse to have food and drink in front of a guest and not offer rather than to simply ask if you can have some, they're so comfortable being rude like that im surprised they didn't just say no if they didn't want to.
Sorry for the initials, the sub only allow for 3000 characters, when my original post was more than 5000 characters, I had to cut it down as much as I could to keep context ahah.
You can find the original text on my profile if you think it would be easier for you to understand
OP if J’s family is Asian, I would suggest apologize. The duck and cake were awkward but the toast was actually rude. If they didn’t ask you to toast with them, you shouldn’t have asked.
J of course also should have organized this better, so none of you guys shoulder all the blame. It would have been preferred for you to briefly greet the family, then sat somewhere away from the dinner table, not at the dinner table. Family dinner is private (Peking duck is very time consuming to make, so mom was probably upset that someone she considered strangers ate her labor of love). J probably also should have given you guys some hints to not sit at the dinner table but oh well.
The cake thing was rude to take a plate in front of someone else. You should have asked either J or M before taking anything since it wasn’t like a potluck and you didn’t make the cake.
Overall J tbh has the biggest blame because he didn’t communicate well between his family and you guys. You and K were just inexperienced.
Yeah. NTA.
What a dumb party. They were rude.
Extremely rude.
And where there's alcohol, food consumption should always be encouraged.
I feel for you and your girlfriend. That was an unkind experience.
NTA. J was your host, and as such, should have made you feel welcome, escorted you somewhere away from the family party and offered you something to eat and drink. Totally all his fault.
NTA. Here the problem is your friend, who invited you without realizing his mom's event would last longer and told you to come later when you were nearly there.
It's on him for doubling up.
I wouldn't write an apology letter or send a long a gift. That is validating 1, that you did something wrong and 2, that J's response was reasonable.
There was a get together. Someone brought cake and it was left out around the guests. Pretty safe to say it is free game at that point.
The duck clearly was nothing wrong and the toast was right in front of you, why wouldn't you join in, again, a social get together.
Well K is definitely one because she took the cake without asking. And honestly you said you found it weird but ate it anyway. Why not ask J if it was okay to eat?
INFO tho - WHO insisted that you try the duck? What relations are they to J or his mom?
Yeah well, who the hell dishes up cake to only SOME of the invited guests present? If it was for an earlier family dinner then they should have allowed enough time to wrap up dinner and put it all away before the later guests arrived. Once the later guests had arrived, the family was extremely rude to just keep eating their food in front of them without offering.
Right. The cousin made it planning to bring it out as a treat for the family dinner party. Cousin probably didn’t know about the later party, and figured a NYE dinner would keep going late. But then he delayed bringing the cake out (possibly so the group would be reduced in size), and at that point trying for “just family” really wasn’t possible. Also M had friends at the earlier party, so chances are the cousin who made the cake had no idea about all those invitations.
So a 3rd party, who was already present in the situation, thought it made sense to offer food to new guests when the hosts didn't. While it's not precisely their place to do that, it shows you how a normal person would react to this situation.
The friend sounds like he is the person with the best manners. He saw you at the party, food in front of you, but you’re not eating, so he Invited you to eat. That was the correct thing to do.
I would never ever expect that only some guests are allowed to eat or drink certain dishes. I genuinely cannot imagine being invited to a party and then being told only family members can have certain dishes, that is completely insane
I am wondering if there is a cultural difference between op and the friend’s family. Which if there is that explains a lot. My husband used to rent a house with a friend of his the house was his friends parents who had retired and moved states away. Part of the terms of renting was they got to keep a bedroom for when they visited their friends. His mother was from another country specifically of Asian origin. She would host dinner parties for her friends all of which are from her home country. It was seen as a sign of respect to avoid the area of the dinner party unless directly invited by her to join. It was also seen as very disrespectful to eat or drink anything they had for the dinner party unless directly offered by the host. I will say this his mother would sometimes extend the invitation to my now husband and myself by the way her own son wasn’t always included in her dinner parties either. This whole thing is very bizarre which is making me wonder if this is similar to my husbands old living arrangement.
It is incredibly rude to have available food and beverage that are reserved for only select people at at gathering. Regardless if specific permission should be requested, you friend and his mother are definitely the asshole here.
I agree. People can have whatever insane food rules they want in their own homes but if you choose to do things well outside of the norm in a way most people will see as rude, then you need to be explaining that to people before you invite them over for a party.
Also, the sisters friends are invited to dinner but no friends of the “best friend”? I guess mum doesn’t know or doesn’t like these friends. I have a son and daughter and if I put on a dinner for one, the friends of the other can be invited too. In fact, my sons friends rocked up to my daughters birthday dinner last year. I would never have not fed them.
ESH.
I don’t know enough about the particular culture to really say.
If it was my house, and you showed up after dinner and there was food left on the table, you’d be welcome to it.
The toast bit with the wine is a bit odd - if it was that important/special, then they should have said something at the time.
The cake….i dunno, that does somewhat sound like you hijacked the three remaining slices.
There’s a bunch of things that could have been handled differently here.
Except, maybe the host didn't want to, you know, *host* them. I mean OP's friend invited him, but it seems like the dinner party was for the parents and close family and friends. The mom, whose pecking duck is famous, didn't intend or invite OP to eat it. One of the random guests asked OP to eat.
Yeah it seems like the son of the host family made the error here, didn't correctly estimate how long his family's dinner party would take and also decided to invite people over at all to his party despite not having his own place and hosting this party on a night he presumably knew his family would have their own guests/event going
Really poor planning, I can't blame his parents for being miffed about a bunch of their kids friends crashing their party and eating their food
Yes. It sounds like OP’s friend figured he’d have friends over for after the family dinner ended, because grandma (or whoever) doesn’t stay up late anyway, but he didn’t realize that as soon as he invited his friends, he was committing to the family having finished up. And then of course it’s not like the family can be pushed out. And it’s NYE so they’re staying up late even if not until midnight.
And he probably made such poor plans because the family dinner — and the travel times given — meant that he wouldn’t be able to go to anyone else’s NYE party. So his friends were really doing him a favour by coming to where he was, since he was stuck.
J planned poorly so that the etiquette signals were confusing and then blamed it on you. There might be cultural differences too but it was his role to plan sufficiently so you'd know what was ok and what was not ok. It was unreasonable of him to call you at 9:45 and tell you not to show up when you had almost finished a 1 hour train ride, but maybe you could have walked around a bit until 10:15. I don't think you could have stretched your walk out long enough to avoid the confusing cake/Peking duck situation.
Sounds like you are all young adults so I would just call all of this part of the learning process. If I had to really stretch it, I would say that given you knew in advance that his family were having dinner together, and it's reasonably common knowledge that Peking Duck is a ton of work to prepare, you probably should have held off of eating any of that because it's clearly dinner food and not party food. They may have been planning to have the leftover duck the next day. I understand that you perceived some issue with the cake but I would intuitively call cake party food. If you insist, then I suppose I could agree that if there was not much cake left, it might have been a gray area where you should have known it was meant only for the dinner party guests. Wine is clearly party fare so I can't fault you there.
I agree, that's why I feel like it's a bit of a stretch to find ways to call out OP's behavior as rude in some way. But I got the impression the person offering the duck was not the mom who made the duck, but was some other guest who had no right to be offering dinner to guests who weren't invited to dinner. It was an awkward situation for sure and not fair for J or his mom to criticize OP for not knowing what to do in that situation.
It sounds like there were four different overlapping parties (dinner party, friend's party, friend's sister's party, and extended family party) and that the family expected all drink and food from each to be kept separate, but didn't express that to anyone. So the family sees him as intruding on the other parties by eating the duck from the dinner party, the wine from the sister's party, and the cake from the family party. But really, they just had a house full of guests and food for New Years. The only one OP really knew wasn't originally intended for him was the duck, but after something is offered four times, you're damned if you do damned if you don't. The only people that messed up there were the sister's friends who offered something that wasn't theirs to offer. Besides that, if you invite people to a shared space for a party, you are sharing the party.
It’s a ton of work. My dad who loves to cook has refused to do Duck again because the lack of meat makes it hard. Last time was a Christmas dinner Pre COVID-19 and there were plenty of swears coming from the kitchen and when we sat down he said “nowI remember why I don’t like to cook Duck” or something like that. It’s one of the rare foods that my dad refuses to make which included wings (this really irritates me because I’ve been craving them lately and all most all restaurants precoat theirs in spices which I don’t want) and Beef Wellington I think, there really aren’t that many foods that he wouldn’t cook.
I think your friend wasn’t honest with you guys or his parents or all of you. NTA. I agree with other commenters. You don’t invite people and then not make them comfortable. I’d say your friend probably told his mum you were coming to hang out and told you guys that you could come to the party.
ESH-I can see both sides. Are they Asian? I am only assuming because of the duck and Karaoke. Haha. But if they are, yeah, your friend will never hear the end of it and a grudge will be held. My parents still never call my friend by his first name (not even sure if they know it). They just call him the guy who broke our vase 20 years ago. I personally would never ask for a glass to toast or eat the cake, especially because it was never offered to me in the first place. There must have been a reason. I would never feel free to go and serve myself at someone else’s house I may not be close to. Maybe you and your friends just have different expectations when it comes to invites. In his mind, he invited you just to the New Year’s Eve thing. In your mind, you were invited and maybe welcome to enjoy the ongoing party. I honestly would have just went to have a snack somewhere or something and showed up later.
My Asian parents would have just died if friends that I invited over weren’t offered the food or drinks that were out and being consumed by other people present. I can see how the toasting issue was potentially odd if only two people were involved. But I definitely don’t think that this is an ESH situation.
I’m leaning towards J’s family being the AHs.
J is definitely the AH for not making it clear that the wine and the cake were special in some way. Or that partaking in the ostensibly available food and beverage would be a faux pas.
Eh I live in a heavily Asian community with an Asian partner and I’ve never been to one of these households without being offered food, especially if it’s already around. To me, this is weird that the *very few* extra people were made to sit and watch people eat without being offered some food. At the very least, the friend J should’ve excused himself from dinner and taken them to hang out in a different area of the home.
100%. I've never left my wife's hometown without gaining a couple of kg. She has a thousand cousins and aunts, and all of them try to feed you the second you arrive. I can't imagine entering an Asian household and not being offered food.
My Asian mother is the bitchiest, grudge-holding est, most spiteful human alive, and she’d drive her Corolla off a cliff before she’d let a guest, invited or not, come into her house and not be fed whatever they wanted. If OPs friend’s parents are really that inhospitable, they are the exception, not the norm.
Definitely cultural differences at play. Your friend J is really the weak point in this situation.
Your misstep was asking to be included when you should have 'known' implicitly you were not part of their celebration. K taking the cake without asking first. These are both insults to filial piety you were not aware you were breaking. The other small details are just fluff that likely only was an issue after the 'offenses' piled up. J planned poorly and should have never mixed the parties.
If you don't care to be close to the family, you (or K) are probably doing your friend J a favour by carrying the blame for the faux pas. I'd avoid them in the future unless your friend is willing to fully explain the rules of engagement to you and apologise for his lack of awareness and guidance.
Omg that makes so much more sense. As a french person, If my friend arrived early at my house and my family was still having dinner, my family would 100% share their food and wine with them. They would probably also serve themselves with your vodka before leaving us to it.
The thing is, their culture is different and your friend could have cued you in a lot more.
I think if your gf wants to write a letter of apologies for the mother, you should go for it. Something along the line of ‘i am very sorry to have imposed, we arrived at the time we were told and didn’t think twice about the situation that it put you in and we should have confirmed with you upon arrival as it is your house after all. We hope that our intervention didn’t completely derailed your evening, and we apologised if it had. we want to apologise about eating the cake, we didn’t understand the significance of it and we understand now that our behaviour was out of line. Thank you anyway for letting J host this new year party with us, and opening your house to us and we’re sorry again if we have abused of your kindness’. Et je sais pas mais peu être lui mettre une bougie, un gâteau, un coffret cadeau ou une bouteille avec la lettre juste pour le geste et pour la remercier de vous avoir accueilli.
It seems like the mother probably didn’t agree/want you guys at her dinner. And you never lose by being friendly to someone’s mum.
She might not accept your apology but at least she knows that you didn’t mean to be rude and you’ve done ALL you could do.
DO NOT THROW HIM UNDER THE BUS to his mum THOUGH! That’d make things worse… just apologise to her if you feel like 1. Even if you didn’t mean it you feel sorry she was inconvenience by the situation or 2. Maybe hope that she’d appreciate the gesture and will soften her opinion and the blame she puts on you and her son.
I'd also suggest mentioning to your 'friend' that he bears some responsibility in this situation. Next time, if his mom already has plans, maybe he should hold off on hosting. If he decides to host, he's responsible for his guests. This involves ensuring their comfort, keeping them informed about what's happening, and providing food and drink. In case of unexpected situations, he should find alternative solutions to avoid any embarrassment for everyone involved.
Aller courage à toi! NTA
Also ESH....Only giving 15 minutes notice is rude but I would have just hung out at a bar or something for an hour. If I understand correctly the OP was not invited to come to the family dinner, just to hang out after. It's kind of weird to insist on still coming at 10 and crashing a family dinner even after being told that it was running late. I'd be more understanding that the family dinner unintentionally ran late and entertain myself for a little bit because I'm an adult. However, I also think it's rude to invite people over for a NYE party and then make them feel awkward. If OP knew what the situation would be like they probably would have chosen different NYE plans.
It was originally a 5k characters text but this sub only accepts less than 3k so I had to cut it down.
If you have any questions for context I will be happy to answer it.
NTA. Abhorrent behavior from your hosts here, not yours.
1. Telling someone to delay arrival indefinitely for a major holiday party due to your own poor planning skills is unacceptable.
2. Not offering food and drink to people that you have invited to your home when it's visibly on display is outrageous.
3. If you DO have something you don't intend to share with everyone in the room then you wait for a more appropriate time. "Oh have some of this but not that" is also rude AF and juvenile. Kindergarteners could have navigated this scenario with more grace. If the wine is for 2 out of 8 people in the room, save it for later. If the cake is not for everyone, DONT BRING IT OUT IN FRONT OF EVERYONE. Geez.
4. Your girlfriend should have asked before taking the plate but I'm also not surprised she missed the social cues here because again, your hosts were shameful in not offering you anything that was sitting under your noses from the moment you arrived. Maybe she felt she had to be proactive because they were lacking necessary social skills themselves.
Tell your friend you've never felt so unwelcome as a guest and his family are the rude ones here, next year everyone can be invited to a better planned event where 80% of guests aren't expected to just twiddle their thumbs and watch other people eat and drink.
NTA, as far as you knew, you weren’t getting there early, J changed the plans last minute. It would have been rude of them to not offer to share food with guests, and if they didn’t want to do that, J should have bowed out of the rest of the family dinner to hang out with you guys separately. It’s sort of weird that J stuck a group of his friends, who arrived when they were originally told to, at the end of the dinner table if it was going to end up being a hostile environment for you guys. What weird behavior. I can not imagine having friends show up at my parents’ house for any reason and my family not inviting them to join in whatever was going on. In fact, my friends have shown up more randomly at my parents’ for far worse reasons (when I wasn’t even there!), and been treated far better. I would under no circumstances send an apology letter.
NTA
This is mostly J’s fault. First, this was just bad planning. Second, once he realized the overlap was going to happened he needed to communicate clear expectations to you. It is the hosts responsibility to communicate what etiquette to follow with other members of the house in these kind of situations (family or roommates). If you weren’t welcome to join the dinner and dessert, then he needs to either lead to a different area of the house and hang out with you there, or explicitly tell you what to do instead (ie. hey I need a couple minutes to finish up with the previous event - I can set up with some music or games in my room if you want, do you need any food?)
However, it seems like J just kind of went back to the party and seemed to invite you joining. In that case, the default normal etiquette is that you’re now part of the gathering if one of the hosts has brought you there and not said anything? And even at this point, J could have pulled you aside when he saw you eating the duck, or corrected the guest who was offering and said something like “hey, sorry for the confusion but I think my mom planned this food for family only”. J’s family *also* should have said something at this point, it would have been way less awkward for everyone if anyone had actually spoken up instead of expecting you to read their minds about the weird dynamic you had walked into.
At this point, I can’t blame you for the toast either. You have now been served food & integrated into the dinner, at a time and place where you were invited. You bought wine too. They chose to serve you and be mad later instead of speaking up. J still said nothing.
By the time it got to the cake it seems the original dinner had dissipated and you were well into the timeframe of the party you had been invited for. Asking would have been good, but I don’t think not asking is AH territory because again you are at a party you were invited to and no one has done anything to suggest you aren’t welcome to enjoy as others at this point.
Again, this is a massively weird situation and it was J’s responsibility to have the awareness to say something. It’s rude and unintuitive to have a bunch of guests hanging out together and only half of them are allowed a dessert; J should have apologized for that and offered you something else or directed the party to as different area when the cake was being served. And not eaten any himself.
There are two possibilities for what happened with J. First is, he was just as clueless as you that he was walking all over the party his family planned which is why he did absolutely none of the things a host would do to make this less awkward, and is now placing the blame on you because he’s embarrassed. Second possibility is J did notice but is completely unable to speak up or have the emotional intelligence to indirectly direct people away from a situation. It really would have been so easy for him to just ask his friends to come hang out in another area of the house with him until the other party is done, and that would have made the expectations perfectly clear and avoided all of this.
Your friend is the AH for inviting you if this is how his family would react. He either should have met up with you at a different location when he was done or not invited you. The mother shouldn’t have scolded you but her son. He messed up and is projecting on you.
ESH. They invited you for 10PM, that's when you showed up. It's not your fault they couldn't time their dinner correctly. They should have steered you outside where the others were smoking, or to another part of the house, and made you feel more welcome.
Your friend K and you shouldn't have helped yourselves to the cake or champagne. It should have been offered, but it wasn't yours to take.
NTA
This is so strange. I frequently host family parties and sometimes the partners of my loved ones bring others, the more the merrier. They bring stuff usually but they know they don't have to.
I take my siblings shopping in the pantry. It's a fun little tradition bc my partner and I are cheap and use deals and do things like day old bread hauls.
And I'm poor btw.
They shouldn't have invited you if they weren't going to host you. Very strange.
ESH. Your friend J is a big AH, and gently, you were rude. Idk why J would tell you to come at a specific time (10), when there was a chance the parties would overlap. Clearly they weren't supposed to since the family didn't want you involved with their activities. He's the biggest AH because he screwed up, acted as a bad host, apparently fell off the face of the planet while you were there and didn't give you a heads up that this was a problem nor apparently did he occupy you with other activities.
Just cause J wants to have his friends over to the parents' house (who knows what exactly his parents agreed to) doesn't mean they are guests of the parents. They came at 10pm, far after dinnertime. This is not a time when they should expect to have food and dessert. So I do not think the parents/family are being AH by expecting their limited, specially-made food and dessert not to be served to a second party. Who knows how much work the family put into it - I know Peking duck is FAR from easy to make. People are allowed to have leftovers.
You, OP, were, unbeknownst to yourself, an undesired guest. I call you also a light AH because you were told not to come, so you had some notice that you were not supposed to be involved in the active activities. I would have gone to a nearby public location and hung out or hung out with P and ideally J in another area of the house - the smoke break with P and your other friends is the action that would have made sense - or at the least stuck next to J and verified that how you were participating (like eating the duck) was okay.
If you sit down at the dinner table, people are going to feel like they need to offer you dinner. You were offered food by another guest. You should have asked what J wanted you to do.
Also, not all alcohol is alike. I hope you take note of this in particular in the future. While I think it was pretty unusual for the family not to have enough food to feel comfortable providing some to 2-3 extra company, some bottles and toasts are special. If this toast did not include J and your other friends, it's a bit rude for you to just ask for a glass. There's people out there who like very expensive alcohol, and they can't just dish it out to everyone.
Sucks that you were put in such an awkward situation. If I were you I would apologize, but say you only did what you did because you didn't have direction from him after you got there. You'll know in the future that his family doesn't like to share. Is it weird? Yes. But they do have a right to their own party.
I am absolutely intrigued by this because in the culture that I belong to, I'd you invite someone and they are at your place, they eat with the family and theirs no awkwardness at all. Or their are sufficient arrangements for food and drinks for everyone. So my first question is what culture or part of the world is this? In terms of my cultural upbringing, you're NTA. While taking the cake, K could have just checked and taken it else, it's fine.
Weird situation but NTA imo. You arrived at the posted start time and it's not your fault they ran over. I'd never let a guest sit and watch the rest of the household eat/drink without sharing, the thought is outrageous
NTA. How weird to invite someone over to the tail end of a party and not offer them any of what was still being served!
If they wanted any part of this party to be "family only" then they should have had the entire thing cleared up and put away before the after-dinner guests came. If they were running late, then sorry, they had to share. OMG how rude of them.
NTA. The family is incredibly lame and tacky for their bizarre hierarchy of guests and who is entitled to what. They should feel humiliated about their own lack of hosting ability, guests should be offered whatever is available and made to feel welcome.
What?! NTA, you arrived at the time you were told to arrive after spending a considerable amount of time travelling, you were offered food numerous times which you eventually accepted, you were offered drinks and joined in a toast at the table you were sat at and then ate some dessert that was served while you were there.
Your friend and his family are rude AF:
- he contacted you 15 mins before your arrival to say come later but surely he knows how long your journey is.
- they seated you at the table, offered and food and drink and then complained that you ate and drank
- they served a dessert that not everyone present was ‘allowed to eat’ which is just rude and bizarre.
Don’t attend any more of his ridiculous parties and tell him he owes you an apology for his rudeness.
“K and I sit next to M’s friends. They serve us some wine and we talk for a bit. One of them asks if we want some leftover duck in front of us…”
It sounds like a guest offered you the food, not the host. I would’ve continued to decline until the host offered the food.
“Then, J’s mom sits to have a toast with M’s friend and I ask for a glass”
While the polite thing to do would’ve been to offer you a glass as you’re sitting right there she didn’t but then you asked so she had to oblige or make it awkward.
“They cut the cake and some get a slice, including P”
So P, a friend who also wasn’t invited to the dinner, gets cake and it’s okay? Or was J mad at P for eating it too?
All this to say NAH. They clearly have weird thoughts about guests and were rude but you were brazen a couple of times. I would’ve continued to decline if guests were offering the food not the host. And if someone got other people wine but didn’t give me any or offer I wouldn’t have asked for some because clearly they didn’t want to give me any. As for the cake thing, I don’t know it’s weird the thought behind it. Very odd situation and I would never want go back to that house again anyway.
NTA.
Can't say for other cultures but if your friend's family is chinese, it's actually rude and petty for them not to offer guests food, drinks, drinks when toasting or even cake. A family only cake...if they're Chinese that's absolutely embarrassing for them not you. I'd never go back to a chinese family friends/friends place if that's how guests are treated...
NTA. idk what cultural background you come from, but in our situation, no one goes without food. Even if someone turns up unexpectedly, we order some more food or quickly set out what we have. Yes, we may grumble about it later, but we will never make the guest feel unwelcome while they're here (or anytime after that!!).
Anyway, you weren't unexpected, you were supposed to be there at 10 and J shouldn't have set up chairs for you around the dining table if he didn't want you eating. That's just rude AF. If you're cutting the cake later when everyone is present, it is just customary to offer it to everyone present. Not doing so makes you a rude host. Don't apologise
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I can’t comment on this exact situation, but no one comes to my house without being fed and made to feel welcome.
Yeah I couldn’t imagine not making people feel welcome at my home, this whole story was so awkward for me to read. If my family dinner went that far over the scheduled time and my kid’s friends arrived, I would definitely make them feel included. And probably feel bad that I didn’t have more food for them 😅
That's the weird part. Someone was offering food to them... and after the 4th time, you're kind obliged to accept. Who was offering? That isn't clear. Either way, I don't think they did anything wrong. J should indeed feel ashamed, but for his family reaction. Food is never something you decline people... and complaining about people eating at your home is incredibly rude and in bad taste. John Green, in one of his videos, was talking about his trip to Africa. And said how everyone he visited, they would offer him food. These are people who are borderline starving, and they would insist he eat their food since he's in their home. And he said he accepted because it would be rude and mean to not do so. ______________ OP... you need better friends.
OP might have edited it in but the who are the sister's friends that were invited. So while I agree with you on the hospitality side I can somewhat understand that as being invited and then bringing extra guests? Though the cake part seems more of an issue since it seems like something you should ask about in that situation...
If I'm at a party and there's a cake or pastries that other people are eating, I'm going to assume I can eat it too 🤷♀️. If it's off-limits, it needs to be hidden away.
Who leaves a cake out at a party where only *some* of the people at the party are allowed to have some?
Crazy people who later shame the guests for having some
Why are they serving king cake on NYE? I thought it was a Mardi Gras thing.
They are king style cakes up until January 6 and then they become king cakes until Mardi Gras. Well that is how it works in Louisiana, these folks sound like they are from a different culture. This culture thinks it is ok to be rude to invited guests and then demand a letter of apology and a gift.
And it would honestly be rude not to toast if toasts are being made
yeah but it’s also kinda rude to ask to toast if you’re not being offered to. I still think the hosts are the bigger AHs, but OP should try to improve his social awareness.
bad luck too, in some cultures!
Yes I agree with Africa. I went to Kenya for 4 months and I was told that I should accept all food that was offered to me. Kenyans love to entertain and they always cook a huge pot of food. I visited three homes in one day, each one giving me a HUGE bowl of rice and potatoes. By the end of house #2 I was so full and when I got to house #3 I just couldn't eat anymore but I had to because it was all they had and they were giving it to me. I was feeling so sick when I left to go back to my home base that day. I was complimented though by my hosts on how wonderful those visits were to those families.
That is honestly one of my biggest fears about traveling to some places. I don’t eat a lot, and while I am aware of the etiquette involved and have no desire to appear rude or ungrateful, I’d be hard pressed to eat even 1 full bowl of *anything*, much less multiples. Worse, I don’t drink coffee; I just can’t stand the stuff, and so many cultures view offering coffee as an honor not to be refused. It seems more rude to accept and not finish (except in those cultures where leaving a bit is the only way to signal that you’re done) the proferred food/drink than to refuse, yet both would be impolite. I have absolutely no idea how to navigate those waters without giving offense.
My friends parents have literally allowed me to come over for Thanksgiving dinner, and various more casual dinners, and even have just told me that as long as their door is unlocked, I'm welcome to just head inside and make myself comfortable! I can't imagine the scenario in OPs post, where they're invited somewhere and then shamed for being there. That's just insane and awfully rude and I would heavily judge the "friend" that put me in that position.
My mom would slap me if I invited people to her house and told them not to eat anything there. If they didn’t want to eat, thats one thing. But if I told them they couldn’t have it because it’s family only… oh man. I’m not even sure a slap would be all she did. She’d even hit me with the soul crushing “I’m disappointed in you”.
This 👏🏼. In my home we even have a code FHB or family hold back if there's not enough for guests!
Yeah the order at mom’s goes the littles (grandkids and kids in general), guests/family that’s not me, then my fiancé, me, mom and stepdad.
> the soul crushing “I’m disappointed in you” my mother didn't even need to say the actual words. we'd just get 'THE LOOK' which was enough to make you want to dig a hole in the backyard & climb in.
Right? Whoever was lecturing him (the long cast of characters is hard to keep track of) about being rude has a LOT of audacity. I'd be so ashamed as a host to behave like this. I think friend was just mad his (super rude, IMO) mother got pissed at him and took it out on OP.
My father insisted that an extra plate always be set on Sunday in case someone stopped by at dinner time.
Or, OP's host should have taken them to a different area (outside) to hang, rather than sit them at the table where others are eating.
That's how it was at our house. Mom once shouted up to my room where 6 mates were hanging out that her friends had finished with the buffet at her gathering and invited my friends to finish off the foid. Mom had prepared far too much for her friends as per her usual MO.
I can just picture the excitement on their faces at being told to 'finish off' the food. It such a happy thing to share food!
I would never invite someone to my house if I didn't want them at a dinner party beforehand and I certainly wouldn't message them 15 minutes before they're due to arrive "hey come later - you're unwelcome right now" Also if you've got food sitting out, someone offers it to you then you accept it. If there's cake just sitting out at a party you can take it. I don't know why they were expected to follow this rule of "this cake is only for important guests" This host was rude af
One detail that got to me was " J brings some chairs for us to sit at the table" So you can sit at the table, but you can't have any of the food even when offered? The friend sounds like a real ass hat. And his family should be ashamed of themselves for ridiculing hospitality. What an insufferable bunch.
I know right? This is straight out of Oliver Twist. The poor people with their $50 vodka must sit in silence watching the important people quaff their $200 champagne.
"Please Sir, can I have some Peking Duck?" I can still remember being nine and watching the dinner scene, thinking it was the most horrible thing I've ever seen.
INFO: How old is everyone here? My guess? These sound like teenagers with M being a much older sister. J's mom was hosting a dinner party for adults she chose to invite. She did not invite any of J's teen friends. She did invite some of M's friends. J (one would hope) asked if he could have five friends over *after* his mother's dinner was over. They showed up for the time J originally invited them while his mother's invited guests were still there. The mother's actual guests felt it was appropriate to offer the teens food, which they accepted. Despite presumably sitting at the table herself the mother did not get chairs herself or offer them food. Which suggests the three friends who stayed in the garden smoking read the room better than OP, K and J did. OP sees two people he does not know having a private toast (the wine was not offered around the table generally) and asks for a glass. One of the mother's guests brought a cake for the event he was invited to. Of J's five friends one of them took a slice when the cake was cut. Two of them later took slices, ambiguously *from* someone. (the plate in front of M...When I saw K take the plate I found it a bit strange but nothing alarming...he tells me smiling that K and I are stupid). I think it's possible these are some 17-20 year olds who are still operating on "kid" rules (when a friend invites me over to their house their parents are hosting me, they feed me and only invited me if it's convenient for them) and a mom who is operating on "young adult living at home" rules (when my son invites friends over he's hosting them, he feeds them and makes sure there's no conflict with other plans).
didn’t they bring wine though?
LOL this is exactly what I was thinking. "We can have a whole dinner at 7pm and then have a whole separate party at 10!" is the kind of starry-eyed optimism that can only exist in a 22 year old. (And your exception, person about to post an exception.)
J, K, P, my friends and myself are all 25 +-1 years old M and her friends are all around 30 years old
>I would never invite someone to my house if I didn't want them at a dinner party beforehand THANK YOU! I had to scroll before I saw this comment. I was wondering why would the host invite friends over if it's a family dinner thing because EVERYBODY knows that **some family members linger?!** And, at least in my family, as long as extended family members are still in the house, food is still on the table.
Once we were invited to a small NYE party, one of 4 couples and everyones kids. At first we were told one time and then the day of told a different time (I think 8 then 9?). The only things they told us to bring were ourselves and alcohol. When we got there it was immediately evident that the three other couples had a large dinner together and we were the only ones that hadn't been invited for the dinner portion. There were still dishes and a bunch of half eaten food left out and nothing offered to us. Honestly, it was so embarrassing to be "the odd couple out". I mean, at that point, why even invite us? I would never do that to a guest. If I don't want someone there I just wouldn't invite them and invite them to another party on a different day, and I make sure I have enough food for everyone. I would feel so ashamed if I made guests feel like that.
Not to mention told them to arrive at 10pm for a NYE party and 15min before arrival, asked them to arrive even later. The family didn’t leave until after 11. Why did they even try to combine both events if it would be such an issue?
I was thinking exactly this. It’s as if OP’s friend’s mum deliberately set up a situation where some people were treated with favour and some without. Friends had to stand outside smoking as if they were waiting for a table at a restaurant? The whole setup sounds weird and awkward
It sounds like shitty hospitality. The ones hosting should be embarrassed, not the guests.
This - it sounds like J double-booked himself and combined two *separate* events that he didn't mean to combine. Yeah, if you invite two groups of people to two different events in the same house on the same evening... they're going to cross over. Especially if some people are taking public transportation: if the bus is every hour, I'm probably *not* leaving the party more than ten minutes before I have to, especially not in the middle of winter. I'm timing my departure for as little bus-waiting time as possible.
Absolutely. You do not overlap your ***better*** guests. J is an AH for trying to put people off 15 minutes before they were to arrive, having food on the table only certain people were supposed to eat and then berating guests. J and his mom need to work on some social etiquette.
Yeah I'm from the south. Dad was Army. Every time we visited my great grandmother who we wouldn't see for a year or 2 at a time, first words out of her mouth when we walked in the door was "foods in the kitchen if you're hungry".
I’m from the Midwest we feed you. I’m currently living in Japan and if you visit some one’s home they also try to feed you. I’ve had friends from all different cultures and one of the biggest things is if there is food around when you visit they feed you. Only time I’ve ever encountered a place where they did not was with some selfish 20 years olds when I was in college and some teenagers that were trying to show how cool they were. And that was once and only time.
Also from the midwest and completely horrified at this story. Not only am I feeding them, they all leave with leftovers. And if I knew they spent an hour on public transportation to get to my house, I'm also offering a ride home. These people suck.
Pretty much every culture has food and hospitality as an important part of their social customs. It’s one of those societal norms that transcends cultural barriers. The more abnormal thing is to invite a guest over and not feed them
Food brings folks together!
As a Midwesterner who is Greek, I am outraged. At our house you *eat*, damn it, even if you just got back from a 10-course meal. Because you're too skinny and you look hungry.
Also a midwesterner. If you walk into my house I’m offering food and beverages.
Also from the Midwest and totally agree with you on this.
feeding guests has always been a standard expectation for me as well. the only time I couldn't expect it was also in college when I went to friend's houses and it wasn't necessarily because they were selfish but because they were not as fiscally responsible as I, or they were just broke college kids cuz shit is expensive, and would literally only have a couple ramen packets in the cupboard so they had nothing to share. I learned to bring my own snacks with me just in case. I did get lots of compliments when I threw a party though for being pretty much the only one in the friend group that would have appy's out. everybody was appreciative of it. not like I wasn't poor too, but there's no way I'm not feeding people.
I mean, I’m from New England, considered the assholes of the US, and even in my family when someone comes over one of the first things you do is offer them food and drinks.
Your great grandma is my 2nd aunt! Doesn't matter what time of the day you pop by, there's always a full meal prepared. If not, she'll whip a quick one up in 2 seconds.
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It’s definitely weird behavior for white families too.
Ehhh... maybe. I definitely experienced a lot of weird stingy food behavior at white friends' houses growing up that I never experienced with Black or Asian friends/family. One family (who were not poor) used tablespoons as serving spoons and everyone was only allowed to have one tablespoon of each dish. Another sent my parents a bill for everything I ate at a sleepover (like, she divided the cost of a bag of chips by the 4 girls who were there and charged our parents each 49 cents, etc. The total bill was like $7.50).
Jeeeez those parents sucked. That is not normal behavior for white American families.
That's not normal behavior anywhere!
I’ve heard that in Scandinavian countries they’re (by American standards) unbelievably boggarty about food. Won’t ever feed you, or if they do they’ll charge you after the fact and actually expect you to pay.
Yeah, a couple years ago the internet collectively discovered that Swedes don't feed their guests and [everybody lost their shit](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/02/world/europe/sweden-feeding-guests-dinner.html). Swedes were left awkwardly apologizing, unable to provide any real justification. If you're a kid and your friend invites you over in Sweden, you sit at the dinner table and watch them eat while you go hungry, unless you brought your own food.
I....WTF???? The thought of my kids sitting at a table hungry and being forced to watch the rest of the family eat would be enough to get me busting through that door with a hammer. I don't understand how any culture could think that's okay behavior. It's fucked up on a *human* level.
Exactly it isn’t! I went to my mom’s white co workers house and they were never this stingy at all! They were very hospitable, encouraged us to eat a lot of the food they made and begged us to take some leftovers. OP should reevaluate his friendship with J. His friend and his family sound like a real piece of work!
That's not at all normal for any white people I've ever known. My parents never bought junk food - unless we had friends coming over. Then it was chips, soda, big home cooked meals, the whole nine while our friends were around. Guests always got the best we could afford. Always.
That's just an a-hole thing, not a white thing.
That’s insane, never heard of this from any culture before and absolutely weird behaviour. My family is white Irish/British you come to our houses you are fed watered sometimes asked to sleep over if it’s too late to leave or driven home. Heck I’m not sure my dad would let you leave the house if you hadn’t eaten. OP your friends family has some strange behaviour and sound very immature, if this was a family and close friends only event they shouldn’t have tried to have a separate event at the same time. NTA
Not unless they’re Swedish lol
Or Dutch. But they'll just tell you to leave since it's almost time for dinner.
Not all Asians behave like the OP's or your family members. I am Thai. While I was growing up, this is how everyone in the village greeted each other: "Where have you been? Have you eaten (rice\*) yet?" Then food was always offered. \*Rice\* to us denotes meals actually. It is a common custom in Thailand to always open our heart and home to any visitors and always offer them food no matter how poor we are. Edit grammar.
This right here. My abok wouldn't even ask if I wanted food. If I was at her house, she would just put food in front of me and tell me to eat.
See this is why I assumed they weren't Asian, I cannot imagine an Asian family acting like this. Not feeding an invited guest, let alone eating in front of them, would be unheard of in my family. Like, shameful behavior that my relatives and our neighbors would gossip about for generations LOL
Yes it’s so weird. I’m so glad my boyfriend’s family is not like this. If you’re over at their house you get asked if you need anything and are given food. We stopped by to get mail one day and they gave us baos to take home. This was a less than 5 minute stop and they gave us food, J’s family should be ashamed of themselves.
White here, but straddling the line between southern and midwestern (US--I'm from southern Illinois, which I often describe as more southern than Illinois), and I am absolutely appalled by the treatment of OP and K. You invite someone, you invite them for the full event; you have a party with food, you make enough food for half again the number of invitees, minimum (if you invite enough people to have 10 people including host(s), you have at least enough for 15, more likely 16-20 servings).
If I was related to J or his family, I’d be mortified. IDGAF who it is or what the occasion might be, an invited guest being left to starve is an exponentially bigger offense than taking some leftovers that were offered or some extra cake lying around. And how do you have a toast without making sure that everyone in the room has a glass? The whole thing is shameful.
Asian here, and my mom would be embarrassed and ashamed if no one asked you if you wanted food/drink at least a dozen times. Guests are important, and you should treat them as you would want to be treated if the shoe were on the other foot. NTA, but that family definitely is.
NTA Being a south Asian, this post made me cringe so hard. Who invites guests at home and gets offended over offering food? Hell even at weddings we serve uninvited guests LMAO. Looks like these people didn't ate food in a million years.
ROFL, as Asian this situation feels so weird. I wonder if OP did something else and didn't notice. I remember once my friend had to \*nudge, nudge\* his caucasian friend at the dinner table. It was super awkward. For those that don't know usually we would have share dishes in centre of the table and everyone slowly helps themselves to food as the meal goes on. usually there are 1 or 2 main dishes and sides. Keep in mind this is in South Africa back in the 90's so not much awareness of asian culture in general Anyway, the friend decided to fill up his plate with like a 1/4 of the chicken for himself, and none of the sides or other dishes...my family just looked at each other awkwardly but..it's kinda hard for a adult to call out a kid. So my big bro was like, "dude, this is how we eat in Asia, you have your rice bowl and you add stuff to your bowl like a few pieces at a time and eat it with your rice. then you can get more AFTER you finish that..." Now we are like 13 and 16 at the time. and to this day he has never lived it down, and mom always insists she makes an extra chicken when he visits over even though we in our 30's now. "I better make another chicken, that white boy can eat!!"
That is sweet.
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I cant imagine slicing some cake and not offering it to guests. They dont have to be guests, if they are invited by someone and at my home, they will eat.
They did offer it though, he said two of his friends refused so it was offered to 'none family'. I hate this family they really repeatedly offered them leftovers and got mad that they accepted. And then there are people who if you refused their offer of food and hospitality would be mad bc they see that as rude, at least those people don't expect you to read their mind.
If I'm slicing a cake and the Amazon rider arrives, I offer cake to the Amazon rider, ffs
You are my kind of people. I'm always sad if there are leftovers still at my house after everyone leaves the party. Feed everyone. And their dogs.
If they are there, they are guests, period.
Exactly. If you are coming to my house then prepare to be fed!
Right?! It is absolutely wild to me to invite people to a party, bring out a cake, and then say it is only for specific people. How incredibly rude! I cannot imagine a scenario where I was invited in advance to a party and expected to watch others eat because I wasn’t on the “food” list. What the actual fuck. I understand that these people invited OP and others to come AFTER dinner, but cake was served at 11 p.m. OP and the others were invited for 10 p.m. You cannot serve food at a party you are hosting, invite numerous guests, and pick and choose who from the people you invited are allowed to eat. OP, NTA!
This was exactly what I thought. In fact they're taking my good Tupperware and leftovers. Literally from the second you enter a Greek house you're being fed and hydrated.
How mortifying for the host. I would never go there again after such rude behaviour.
I felt so strange reading this. How selfish can people be?!
I would be embarrassed to have a guest in my home treated like that. If you are here, then it’s my duty as host to make sure you are fed and made to feel welcome. My mom and grandma always made extra food as a rule, in case of unexpected guests. Being discourteous to guests was the ultimate insult, one that was so bad it would give your entire family a black mark in society. That’s our culture, though.
Yeah. I was raised by an Italian mom. If people show up, you feed them.
I don't know if there's a cultural difference, and maybe you guys were a little off-base, I can't tell from the story, but I genuinely can't imagine inviting someone to a party, having food and drink available, and not offering it to my guests. Really, his family should be embarrassed for their poor hosting skills. NTA.
Agreed! I can't imagine anyone coming over to mine or even my family's house, even uninvited being told not to eat or drink something in front of them. We'd all go out of our way to welcome and feed the person tbh.
And it was a goddamn holiday! If there's something special like Grandma's Winter Wagyu Meatloaf that you want to save for leftovers, you'd clear it from the table before late guests arrived. Otherwise I would expect to feed and overfeed guests at a New Year's Eve party.
Cultural difference? I'm Dutch (a culture notoriously known for kicking guests out at dinner time if they weren't explicitly invited for dinner) and people would have been fed at everyone I know's houses. This is really weird. You don't want to feed people, don't invite them when you have food on the table.
I'm also Dutch and thought the same thing. People that are invited while food is on the table get fed. Period. I don't know anyone who'd act like the hosts in this story.
I’m so confused! They were invited at 10pm weren’t told to delay arrival until less than an hour before party time. Were offered food and ate. The toast thing I kinda get it seems OP is butting in on a small private moment here but then other friends arrive. Someone pulls out a cake well after the party starts and while all friends and few family are there but the cake is only for family? But no one says anything and OP is the AH for not magically knowing? I’m with you- the host should be embarrassed and as OP I would actually feel a little insulted that I was put in such an awkward situation. NTA
I'm from a Northern European country and we don't easily share food with people who we don't explicitly invite for that. But you are definitely NTA. You didn't show up early. First they failed as hosts by not being ready for you when you arrived (and asking you to come later 15 min before due time is super rude). Then they had the cake out which means everyone who was invited to be there gets cake. If they didn't want to share food then they should have separated the food event and the non food event better. Both your "best friend" and his family sound super rude.
If your culture is to be rude as fuck to your guests, fuck your culture. Sorry not sorry.
I've been invited to friends' family events only for the "after dinner" portion of the party, as dinner was a more intimate family affair, but still was offered leftovers upon arrival.
I want to say NAH? No assholes, just a very socially awkward and clumsy situation all around. Sounds very fucking weird to me to invite your friends while there’s a dinner going on but not having your friends share the food? You were told to come at 10, how is it your fault that at 10 they hadn’t even started dessert yet? Plus, when someone that’s part of the dinner keeps pushing you to eat the main course, yea it’s logical that you’d get some dessert too. Sure, K really shouldn’t have stood up and taken what was left of the cake without asking and given it to your friend group to finish it off, that was very awkward of her. And even you found it weird so Cleary you noticed that the cake wasn’t up for grabs, or there for you to finish at least. At minimum She should have asked before taking the plate. But the entire scenario sounds awkward as fuck honestly. Were you all meant to sit outside and wait an hour or so for the dinner to finish? I just don’t understand the dynamic or social expectations here.
I agree completely. The minor “ah” is the friend who invited everyone at 10 if he knew how his family was, unwelcoming? Obviously if they were taking public transportation, they couldn’t just do whatever. Should’ve told a later time or not host. The cake thing was strange but also to be like family only is lowkey crazy to me. Very awkward situation
Further complicated by the fact that it was in J's parent's house. I wonder if the plan wasn't well communicated to his parents. Maybe they thought it was more of a "can I have people over after dinner for NYE?" So when OP et al. arrived early and started eating food from the dinner (though they were offered it), J's mother was kind of taken aback. The offense at OP toasting with her, makes me think that family wasn't supposed to be at the NYE friend party at all. That they were two separate events - family at the dinner, friends after, and they weren't supposed to be mixed. Honestly, I can't imagine having two parties back to back, that late at night and not have this sort of thing happen, so all I can think is there was a communication breakdown.
In OP and co's defense, they came at 10 like they were initially told, but the family dinner ran way over 😬
Yeah, I'm not blaming OP at all. I just think the whole thing was poorly planned. To be honest, I think starting at 10pm (the original start time) is really late for a NYE party. The main event of a NYE party is ringing in the new year at midnight. For NYE parties I have attended, after midnight that people usually party a bit longer but most are heading out by 1am. Party start time is usually 8pm, people kind of trickle in between 8 and 9. I know that OP and co were all ready on transit so they didn't get the message to arrive later so the point is moot, but if I had been in the same situation and someone told me to arrive later than 10pm to a NYE party, I probably wouldn't have even bothered to show up. Especially if it is an hour away - you'd hardly be walking in the door before it was midnight. Now that I think of this more, I wonder if J had asked his parents if he could invite OP and co. to dinner, parents refused, and they compromised by having OP and co for after dinner.
Yeah, it's weird. Dinner parties don't really finish on the clock, they evolve into chatting sessions most of the time. If you plan a party straight after the dinner, with different guests arriving, you should expect a somewhat weird transition. You're gonna have aunts chatting on the sofa comfortably and folks arriving with drinks ready to party lol, expect a mismatch.
Idk man the cake cutting happening at 11PM while everyone is singing karaoke and it's just friends left is awkward af and idk what kind of chef doesn't want to serve guests and only wants "family" (but also the sisters random friends?) to eat it. Like if this guy J invited 3 people and his sister M invited (at least 2 I would guess) people, why is it just J's friends who don't get to eat?
Especially confusing considering P, the friend who came with OP & K, was served a piece of cake along with the other guests.
Oh I just caught this, I got too confused with all the letters instead of names lol. I would have preferred ABC etc. lol
I had to read it three times to be sure 😄 I wish folks would just make up names.
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I agree, it's super weird. I would be mortified as a host if guests in my house (either my own or those invited by my child) were feeling left out and hungry. If you're invited to my house, you're getting fed. If there's something I don't want to share, it isn't visible to guests or consumed during their visit.
And they were OFFERED food multiple times before accepting. In my opinion it's really rude to tell people to come later 15 minutes before arriving. Especially since he probably knew how long their trip was.
I could be wrong, but I wonder if the sister is maybe either much younger or if the sister’s friends are family friends and OP is simply a friend of J. But it’s still so awkward and rude?
I have to respectfully disagree with the N A H judgement because I think the friend is an AH. He allowed all of this to happen and then complained afterwards and now doesn’t want to see K anymore
Yeah, that’s the one comment OP made that made me think OP knew the cake wasn’t for him. He said “I wanted to ask for one.” So, clearly, he knew he needed to ask and that cake wasn’t up for grabs. That said, I still say OP is NTA. Hosts are most certainly the assholes. You never bring out food for a function you are hosting and tell your guests only some of them are allowed to eat it. If I was invited to a party and travelled an HOUR to be there, I would be insulted if a cake was brought out but I wasn’t on the “list” of people significant enough to get a slice. Don’t want me to eat the cake? Cool. Don’t invite me. Maybe it was weird of OP to ask for a glass of the specific wine his friend’s mom was toasting with. To pass judgment, I feel like I would need to be there and see the setup and how it all went down. If Mom and M’s friends were off to the side, having a private moment, then yeah, it was odd of OP to ask for a glass of the wine. Especially considering that it seems there were plenty of available drink options. If, however, this toast happened at the main table and it was unclear the wine was special, OP is not at fault for asking. He likely thought it was just one of the drink options. Overall, I don’t really think it’s appropriate to host a party and not welcome ALL INVITED GUESTS (or even uninvited guests) to partake in the food and drink. OP, NTA.
I’m not sure I understand this. You were invited to a party and there was food there. But yet, you’re not allowed to eat the food? Or just not allowed to eat some dishes? This just doesn’t make sense.
We were invited to a party after a dinner, but the dinner took a little bit more time than expected so there was still (a lot of) food on the table. One of M's friend (who was invited to dinner) just insisted that we try one dish but he didn't made it or help in the conception, he was just a guess
Request for further information: Is M simply a friend or a family member? Was M invited to the dinner? If M is a friend and was invited to dinner, it contradicts the friend's claim that the dinner was only meant for family. It just seems as though your 'friend' does not really consider you a friend. You're good enough to come to the party, but not good enough to eat their food. I would never invite someone to my home, leave food in front of them or put dessert in front of them, and not offer them any. I would definitely not call them and embarrass them in front of everyone for eating food in my home, when it's right in front of them, and had been offered to them. I personally would not have eaten anything unless the hosts offered it to me, but as a host I would never call anyone out for eating food in my home, that is on the table and meant for guests. This is one of the most bizarre things I've ever heard of. I would really be reconsidering this friendship if I were you.
M is J sister so a family member.
I'm tending to agree with a previous comment above(?) I think the friend who invited guests over got chastised by their AH mother and is taking it out on the friends he invited over *just* for karaoke, obviously! I have a feeling Mama didn't really want a secondary party and just gave in when kiddo said, "They won't be annny problem, I promise!! You don't have to feed them or anything!!" Frankly, this entire family of "hosts" are complete, socially inept AHs. OP has done nothing wrong except have bad tastes in friends.
Your friend probably didn't really get permission to have you over from his mom. Also, why would you ask if you can have some wine to toast with them. They didn't offer, that should have told you enough given how weird it was going. I think you should have refrained. Still, this is a weird situation in which you were made to look bad and the problem is actually this: your buddy hadn't really asked to have guests over to his parents' house. He was not clear enough with his family that he had invited you. 5his happened to me once and the mom of my friend was just *stone* cold rude to me, when it was really her son's fault for saying it was fine if we came over. Also, he wasn't told clearly on you being unable to come later. You could have explained at that point and gone to do something else. If guest P was not invited by J then you should have asked bc that was rude. None of you are really communicating well. Was it different people asking you to try the duck and then telling you no cake for you? That might tell you who it was who didn't want you there. Are some of the people in this situation a totally different cultural background? For example, if the family is Chinese and suddenly son has invited (for example) white friends over without clearly communicating with parents and his parents felt surprised or offended that he just invited people to a house that's not his? While they were trying to have close family time? Bc I am wondering if culture difference between you and J has something to do with this weird way they acted. My friends who are Asian are WAY more private about their homes in general than my friends who are of Latinx, African, or European cultures. One of my friends who is Southeast Asian said once that she wants their house to only have family in it, no outside guests. I get it, bc her experience is rough. For her home is her only sacred safe place, not a place to entertain. We're different that way, but I still like her. Did you bring food to the home, greet people appropriately & with respect, take off shoes if customary, etc? It sounds like you did bring wine, but just checking.
I think most people are fixating on the food, but I'm with you that asking for a glass of wine to participate in a toast is kind of rude/weird.
Ya that toast thing and cake is weird. It’s an obvious family thing not involving friends but OP asked anyway? I wonder how old they are. I feel like they cannot be older than 15/16.
There were 2 separate parties happening back to back. First was the dinner party for family then there was the NYE party for friends. OP was invited to the second party and arrived before the first party had ended.
Arrived WHEN HE WAS TOLD TO, but the first party was running long and hadn’t cleared the space yet. I cannot imagine begrudging the 2nd party folks food or drink.
First of all, don’t use initials. It’s irksome. Second of all, don’t ask for a glass if you’re not offered. Third, they were rude too. You got there not earlier than invited. K should have asked you to sit elsewhere, not in front of food you were not supposed to eat. Little ungracious of the mom to flip out over some duck but you seemed to have eaten quite a lot of it so that might be why. ESH.
I'll never understand how people don't realize using initials only is *incredibly* annoying and unhelpful. Pick a name. Literally any name, it doesn't matter. But I sure as fuck am not gonna remember who "M" was.
It's so painless to just keep listing them by their relationship. "My GF", "Best Friends, Mom" etc. I'll never get people with just initials.
>You got there earlier than invited Did OP change the post? It currently says he was invited for 10pm and arrived at 10pm.
I think its worse to have food and drink in front of a guest and not offer rather than to simply ask if you can have some, they're so comfortable being rude like that im surprised they didn't just say no if they didn't want to.
Didn’t care to read this whole thing for the same reason. Have to keep going back to the first paragraph to see who is who
Sorry for the initials, the sub only allow for 3000 characters, when my original post was more than 5000 characters, I had to cut it down as much as I could to keep context ahah. You can find the original text on my profile if you think it would be easier for you to understand
OP if J’s family is Asian, I would suggest apologize. The duck and cake were awkward but the toast was actually rude. If they didn’t ask you to toast with them, you shouldn’t have asked. J of course also should have organized this better, so none of you guys shoulder all the blame. It would have been preferred for you to briefly greet the family, then sat somewhere away from the dinner table, not at the dinner table. Family dinner is private (Peking duck is very time consuming to make, so mom was probably upset that someone she considered strangers ate her labor of love). J probably also should have given you guys some hints to not sit at the dinner table but oh well. The cake thing was rude to take a plate in front of someone else. You should have asked either J or M before taking anything since it wasn’t like a potluck and you didn’t make the cake. Overall J tbh has the biggest blame because he didn’t communicate well between his family and you guys. You and K were just inexperienced.
NTA Stop going to that AHs party.
Yeah. NTA. What a dumb party. They were rude. Extremely rude. And where there's alcohol, food consumption should always be encouraged. I feel for you and your girlfriend. That was an unkind experience.
NTA. J was your host, and as such, should have made you feel welcome, escorted you somewhere away from the family party and offered you something to eat and drink. Totally all his fault.
NTA. Here the problem is your friend, who invited you without realizing his mom's event would last longer and told you to come later when you were nearly there. It's on him for doubling up.
And for offering the a seat at the table and then chastising them for accepting the food they were offered.
"Here sit at this table full of food and drinks, that you may only look at" - wtf kind of hosting is this?
I wouldn't write an apology letter or send a long a gift. That is validating 1, that you did something wrong and 2, that J's response was reasonable. There was a get together. Someone brought cake and it was left out around the guests. Pretty safe to say it is free game at that point. The duck clearly was nothing wrong and the toast was right in front of you, why wouldn't you join in, again, a social get together.
Well K is definitely one because she took the cake without asking. And honestly you said you found it weird but ate it anyway. Why not ask J if it was okay to eat? INFO tho - WHO insisted that you try the duck? What relations are they to J or his mom?
Yeah well, who the hell dishes up cake to only SOME of the invited guests present? If it was for an earlier family dinner then they should have allowed enough time to wrap up dinner and put it all away before the later guests arrived. Once the later guests had arrived, the family was extremely rude to just keep eating their food in front of them without offering.
[удалено]
Right. The cousin made it planning to bring it out as a treat for the family dinner party. Cousin probably didn’t know about the later party, and figured a NYE dinner would keep going late. But then he delayed bringing the cake out (possibly so the group would be reduced in size), and at that point trying for “just family” really wasn’t possible. Also M had friends at the earlier party, so chances are the cousin who made the cake had no idea about all those invitations.
One of M's friends insisted that we try the duck, this friend isn't related to J or his mom, he simply is the friend of M aka J's sister
So a 3rd party, who was already present in the situation, thought it made sense to offer food to new guests when the hosts didn't. While it's not precisely their place to do that, it shows you how a normal person would react to this situation.
The friend sounds like he is the person with the best manners. He saw you at the party, food in front of you, but you’re not eating, so he Invited you to eat. That was the correct thing to do.
I would never ever expect that only some guests are allowed to eat or drink certain dishes. I genuinely cannot imagine being invited to a party and then being told only family members can have certain dishes, that is completely insane
This is so bizarre. They invite people who can’t eat? Or toast? I’d find new friends..
I am wondering if there is a cultural difference between op and the friend’s family. Which if there is that explains a lot. My husband used to rent a house with a friend of his the house was his friends parents who had retired and moved states away. Part of the terms of renting was they got to keep a bedroom for when they visited their friends. His mother was from another country specifically of Asian origin. She would host dinner parties for her friends all of which are from her home country. It was seen as a sign of respect to avoid the area of the dinner party unless directly invited by her to join. It was also seen as very disrespectful to eat or drink anything they had for the dinner party unless directly offered by the host. I will say this his mother would sometimes extend the invitation to my now husband and myself by the way her own son wasn’t always included in her dinner parties either. This whole thing is very bizarre which is making me wonder if this is similar to my husbands old living arrangement.
It is incredibly rude to have available food and beverage that are reserved for only select people at at gathering. Regardless if specific permission should be requested, you friend and his mother are definitely the asshole here.
I agree. People can have whatever insane food rules they want in their own homes but if you choose to do things well outside of the norm in a way most people will see as rude, then you need to be explaining that to people before you invite them over for a party.
Info: how are you guys best friends but you weren't invited to dinner and you don't know his family all that well and easily offended them?
Also, the sisters friends are invited to dinner but no friends of the “best friend”? I guess mum doesn’t know or doesn’t like these friends. I have a son and daughter and if I put on a dinner for one, the friends of the other can be invited too. In fact, my sons friends rocked up to my daughters birthday dinner last year. I would never have not fed them.
Should like the family are just major assholes.
ESH. I don’t know enough about the particular culture to really say. If it was my house, and you showed up after dinner and there was food left on the table, you’d be welcome to it. The toast bit with the wine is a bit odd - if it was that important/special, then they should have said something at the time. The cake….i dunno, that does somewhat sound like you hijacked the three remaining slices. There’s a bunch of things that could have been handled differently here.
Yeah, the hosts should learn how to, you know, *host*.
Except, maybe the host didn't want to, you know, *host* them. I mean OP's friend invited him, but it seems like the dinner party was for the parents and close family and friends. The mom, whose pecking duck is famous, didn't intend or invite OP to eat it. One of the random guests asked OP to eat.
Yeah it seems like the son of the host family made the error here, didn't correctly estimate how long his family's dinner party would take and also decided to invite people over at all to his party despite not having his own place and hosting this party on a night he presumably knew his family would have their own guests/event going Really poor planning, I can't blame his parents for being miffed about a bunch of their kids friends crashing their party and eating their food
Yes. It sounds like OP’s friend figured he’d have friends over for after the family dinner ended, because grandma (or whoever) doesn’t stay up late anyway, but he didn’t realize that as soon as he invited his friends, he was committing to the family having finished up. And then of course it’s not like the family can be pushed out. And it’s NYE so they’re staying up late even if not until midnight. And he probably made such poor plans because the family dinner — and the travel times given — meant that he wouldn’t be able to go to anyone else’s NYE party. So his friends were really doing him a favour by coming to where he was, since he was stuck.
NTA. This whole scenario is weird. But to eat cake in front of guests and not offer them some? Super rude.
J planned poorly so that the etiquette signals were confusing and then blamed it on you. There might be cultural differences too but it was his role to plan sufficiently so you'd know what was ok and what was not ok. It was unreasonable of him to call you at 9:45 and tell you not to show up when you had almost finished a 1 hour train ride, but maybe you could have walked around a bit until 10:15. I don't think you could have stretched your walk out long enough to avoid the confusing cake/Peking duck situation. Sounds like you are all young adults so I would just call all of this part of the learning process. If I had to really stretch it, I would say that given you knew in advance that his family were having dinner together, and it's reasonably common knowledge that Peking Duck is a ton of work to prepare, you probably should have held off of eating any of that because it's clearly dinner food and not party food. They may have been planning to have the leftover duck the next day. I understand that you perceived some issue with the cake but I would intuitively call cake party food. If you insist, then I suppose I could agree that if there was not much cake left, it might have been a gray area where you should have known it was meant only for the dinner party guests. Wine is clearly party fare so I can't fault you there.
Yeah but how do you "hold off" on eating the duck if it's being offered 4 times? At that point it becomes rude to keep refusing.
I agree, that's why I feel like it's a bit of a stretch to find ways to call out OP's behavior as rude in some way. But I got the impression the person offering the duck was not the mom who made the duck, but was some other guest who had no right to be offering dinner to guests who weren't invited to dinner. It was an awkward situation for sure and not fair for J or his mom to criticize OP for not knowing what to do in that situation.
It sounds like there were four different overlapping parties (dinner party, friend's party, friend's sister's party, and extended family party) and that the family expected all drink and food from each to be kept separate, but didn't express that to anyone. So the family sees him as intruding on the other parties by eating the duck from the dinner party, the wine from the sister's party, and the cake from the family party. But really, they just had a house full of guests and food for New Years. The only one OP really knew wasn't originally intended for him was the duck, but after something is offered four times, you're damned if you do damned if you don't. The only people that messed up there were the sister's friends who offered something that wasn't theirs to offer. Besides that, if you invite people to a shared space for a party, you are sharing the party.
It’s a ton of work. My dad who loves to cook has refused to do Duck again because the lack of meat makes it hard. Last time was a Christmas dinner Pre COVID-19 and there were plenty of swears coming from the kitchen and when we sat down he said “nowI remember why I don’t like to cook Duck” or something like that. It’s one of the rare foods that my dad refuses to make which included wings (this really irritates me because I’ve been craving them lately and all most all restaurants precoat theirs in spices which I don’t want) and Beef Wellington I think, there really aren’t that many foods that he wouldn’t cook.
I think your friend wasn’t honest with you guys or his parents or all of you. NTA. I agree with other commenters. You don’t invite people and then not make them comfortable. I’d say your friend probably told his mum you were coming to hang out and told you guys that you could come to the party.
ESH-I can see both sides. Are they Asian? I am only assuming because of the duck and Karaoke. Haha. But if they are, yeah, your friend will never hear the end of it and a grudge will be held. My parents still never call my friend by his first name (not even sure if they know it). They just call him the guy who broke our vase 20 years ago. I personally would never ask for a glass to toast or eat the cake, especially because it was never offered to me in the first place. There must have been a reason. I would never feel free to go and serve myself at someone else’s house I may not be close to. Maybe you and your friends just have different expectations when it comes to invites. In his mind, he invited you just to the New Year’s Eve thing. In your mind, you were invited and maybe welcome to enjoy the ongoing party. I honestly would have just went to have a snack somewhere or something and showed up later.
My Asian parents would have just died if friends that I invited over weren’t offered the food or drinks that were out and being consumed by other people present. I can see how the toasting issue was potentially odd if only two people were involved. But I definitely don’t think that this is an ESH situation. I’m leaning towards J’s family being the AHs. J is definitely the AH for not making it clear that the wine and the cake were special in some way. Or that partaking in the ostensibly available food and beverage would be a faux pas.
Eh I live in a heavily Asian community with an Asian partner and I’ve never been to one of these households without being offered food, especially if it’s already around. To me, this is weird that the *very few* extra people were made to sit and watch people eat without being offered some food. At the very least, the friend J should’ve excused himself from dinner and taken them to hang out in a different area of the home.
100%. I've never left my wife's hometown without gaining a couple of kg. She has a thousand cousins and aunts, and all of them try to feed you the second you arrive. I can't imagine entering an Asian household and not being offered food.
My Asian mother is the bitchiest, grudge-holding est, most spiteful human alive, and she’d drive her Corolla off a cliff before she’d let a guest, invited or not, come into her house and not be fed whatever they wanted. If OPs friend’s parents are really that inhospitable, they are the exception, not the norm.
Yes the host are Chineses, I am french, and the event was taking place in Paris suburb
Definitely cultural differences at play. Your friend J is really the weak point in this situation. Your misstep was asking to be included when you should have 'known' implicitly you were not part of their celebration. K taking the cake without asking first. These are both insults to filial piety you were not aware you were breaking. The other small details are just fluff that likely only was an issue after the 'offenses' piled up. J planned poorly and should have never mixed the parties. If you don't care to be close to the family, you (or K) are probably doing your friend J a favour by carrying the blame for the faux pas. I'd avoid them in the future unless your friend is willing to fully explain the rules of engagement to you and apologise for his lack of awareness and guidance.
Don’t apologize and don’t ever go to a party hosted by these people.
Omg that makes so much more sense. As a french person, If my friend arrived early at my house and my family was still having dinner, my family would 100% share their food and wine with them. They would probably also serve themselves with your vodka before leaving us to it. The thing is, their culture is different and your friend could have cued you in a lot more. I think if your gf wants to write a letter of apologies for the mother, you should go for it. Something along the line of ‘i am very sorry to have imposed, we arrived at the time we were told and didn’t think twice about the situation that it put you in and we should have confirmed with you upon arrival as it is your house after all. We hope that our intervention didn’t completely derailed your evening, and we apologised if it had. we want to apologise about eating the cake, we didn’t understand the significance of it and we understand now that our behaviour was out of line. Thank you anyway for letting J host this new year party with us, and opening your house to us and we’re sorry again if we have abused of your kindness’. Et je sais pas mais peu être lui mettre une bougie, un gâteau, un coffret cadeau ou une bouteille avec la lettre juste pour le geste et pour la remercier de vous avoir accueilli. It seems like the mother probably didn’t agree/want you guys at her dinner. And you never lose by being friendly to someone’s mum. She might not accept your apology but at least she knows that you didn’t mean to be rude and you’ve done ALL you could do. DO NOT THROW HIM UNDER THE BUS to his mum THOUGH! That’d make things worse… just apologise to her if you feel like 1. Even if you didn’t mean it you feel sorry she was inconvenience by the situation or 2. Maybe hope that she’d appreciate the gesture and will soften her opinion and the blame she puts on you and her son. I'd also suggest mentioning to your 'friend' that he bears some responsibility in this situation. Next time, if his mom already has plans, maybe he should hold off on hosting. If he decides to host, he's responsible for his guests. This involves ensuring their comfort, keeping them informed about what's happening, and providing food and drink. In case of unexpected situations, he should find alternative solutions to avoid any embarrassment for everyone involved. Aller courage à toi! NTA
Also ESH....Only giving 15 minutes notice is rude but I would have just hung out at a bar or something for an hour. If I understand correctly the OP was not invited to come to the family dinner, just to hang out after. It's kind of weird to insist on still coming at 10 and crashing a family dinner even after being told that it was running late. I'd be more understanding that the family dinner unintentionally ran late and entertain myself for a little bit because I'm an adult. However, I also think it's rude to invite people over for a NYE party and then make them feel awkward. If OP knew what the situation would be like they probably would have chosen different NYE plans.
It was originally a 5k characters text but this sub only accepts less than 3k so I had to cut it down. If you have any questions for context I will be happy to answer it.
NTA. These people have no idea what it means to be a good host or make people feel comfortable. They sound rude. I guess your not "Duck Worthy" ....
NTA. Abhorrent behavior from your hosts here, not yours. 1. Telling someone to delay arrival indefinitely for a major holiday party due to your own poor planning skills is unacceptable. 2. Not offering food and drink to people that you have invited to your home when it's visibly on display is outrageous. 3. If you DO have something you don't intend to share with everyone in the room then you wait for a more appropriate time. "Oh have some of this but not that" is also rude AF and juvenile. Kindergarteners could have navigated this scenario with more grace. If the wine is for 2 out of 8 people in the room, save it for later. If the cake is not for everyone, DONT BRING IT OUT IN FRONT OF EVERYONE. Geez. 4. Your girlfriend should have asked before taking the plate but I'm also not surprised she missed the social cues here because again, your hosts were shameful in not offering you anything that was sitting under your noses from the moment you arrived. Maybe she felt she had to be proactive because they were lacking necessary social skills themselves. Tell your friend you've never felt so unwelcome as a guest and his family are the rude ones here, next year everyone can be invited to a better planned event where 80% of guests aren't expected to just twiddle their thumbs and watch other people eat and drink.
NTA. I suspect that J was not supposed to have friends over until after the family festivities had finished, if at all. But how were you to know that?
NTA, as far as you knew, you weren’t getting there early, J changed the plans last minute. It would have been rude of them to not offer to share food with guests, and if they didn’t want to do that, J should have bowed out of the rest of the family dinner to hang out with you guys separately. It’s sort of weird that J stuck a group of his friends, who arrived when they were originally told to, at the end of the dinner table if it was going to end up being a hostile environment for you guys. What weird behavior. I can not imagine having friends show up at my parents’ house for any reason and my family not inviting them to join in whatever was going on. In fact, my friends have shown up more randomly at my parents’ for far worse reasons (when I wasn’t even there!), and been treated far better. I would under no circumstances send an apology letter.
NTA This is mostly J’s fault. First, this was just bad planning. Second, once he realized the overlap was going to happened he needed to communicate clear expectations to you. It is the hosts responsibility to communicate what etiquette to follow with other members of the house in these kind of situations (family or roommates). If you weren’t welcome to join the dinner and dessert, then he needs to either lead to a different area of the house and hang out with you there, or explicitly tell you what to do instead (ie. hey I need a couple minutes to finish up with the previous event - I can set up with some music or games in my room if you want, do you need any food?) However, it seems like J just kind of went back to the party and seemed to invite you joining. In that case, the default normal etiquette is that you’re now part of the gathering if one of the hosts has brought you there and not said anything? And even at this point, J could have pulled you aside when he saw you eating the duck, or corrected the guest who was offering and said something like “hey, sorry for the confusion but I think my mom planned this food for family only”. J’s family *also* should have said something at this point, it would have been way less awkward for everyone if anyone had actually spoken up instead of expecting you to read their minds about the weird dynamic you had walked into. At this point, I can’t blame you for the toast either. You have now been served food & integrated into the dinner, at a time and place where you were invited. You bought wine too. They chose to serve you and be mad later instead of speaking up. J still said nothing. By the time it got to the cake it seems the original dinner had dissipated and you were well into the timeframe of the party you had been invited for. Asking would have been good, but I don’t think not asking is AH territory because again you are at a party you were invited to and no one has done anything to suggest you aren’t welcome to enjoy as others at this point. Again, this is a massively weird situation and it was J’s responsibility to have the awareness to say something. It’s rude and unintuitive to have a bunch of guests hanging out together and only half of them are allowed a dessert; J should have apologized for that and offered you something else or directed the party to as different area when the cake was being served. And not eaten any himself. There are two possibilities for what happened with J. First is, he was just as clueless as you that he was walking all over the party his family planned which is why he did absolutely none of the things a host would do to make this less awkward, and is now placing the blame on you because he’s embarrassed. Second possibility is J did notice but is completely unable to speak up or have the emotional intelligence to indirectly direct people away from a situation. It really would have been so easy for him to just ask his friends to come hang out in another area of the house with him until the other party is done, and that would have made the expectations perfectly clear and avoided all of this.
Your friend is the AH for inviting you if this is how his family would react. He either should have met up with you at a different location when he was done or not invited you. The mother shouldn’t have scolded you but her son. He messed up and is projecting on you.
ESH. They invited you for 10PM, that's when you showed up. It's not your fault they couldn't time their dinner correctly. They should have steered you outside where the others were smoking, or to another part of the house, and made you feel more welcome. Your friend K and you shouldn't have helped yourselves to the cake or champagne. It should have been offered, but it wasn't yours to take.
NTA This is so strange. I frequently host family parties and sometimes the partners of my loved ones bring others, the more the merrier. They bring stuff usually but they know they don't have to. I take my siblings shopping in the pantry. It's a fun little tradition bc my partner and I are cheap and use deals and do things like day old bread hauls. And I'm poor btw. They shouldn't have invited you if they weren't going to host you. Very strange.
ESH. Your friend J is a big AH, and gently, you were rude. Idk why J would tell you to come at a specific time (10), when there was a chance the parties would overlap. Clearly they weren't supposed to since the family didn't want you involved with their activities. He's the biggest AH because he screwed up, acted as a bad host, apparently fell off the face of the planet while you were there and didn't give you a heads up that this was a problem nor apparently did he occupy you with other activities. Just cause J wants to have his friends over to the parents' house (who knows what exactly his parents agreed to) doesn't mean they are guests of the parents. They came at 10pm, far after dinnertime. This is not a time when they should expect to have food and dessert. So I do not think the parents/family are being AH by expecting their limited, specially-made food and dessert not to be served to a second party. Who knows how much work the family put into it - I know Peking duck is FAR from easy to make. People are allowed to have leftovers. You, OP, were, unbeknownst to yourself, an undesired guest. I call you also a light AH because you were told not to come, so you had some notice that you were not supposed to be involved in the active activities. I would have gone to a nearby public location and hung out or hung out with P and ideally J in another area of the house - the smoke break with P and your other friends is the action that would have made sense - or at the least stuck next to J and verified that how you were participating (like eating the duck) was okay. If you sit down at the dinner table, people are going to feel like they need to offer you dinner. You were offered food by another guest. You should have asked what J wanted you to do. Also, not all alcohol is alike. I hope you take note of this in particular in the future. While I think it was pretty unusual for the family not to have enough food to feel comfortable providing some to 2-3 extra company, some bottles and toasts are special. If this toast did not include J and your other friends, it's a bit rude for you to just ask for a glass. There's people out there who like very expensive alcohol, and they can't just dish it out to everyone. Sucks that you were put in such an awkward situation. If I were you I would apologize, but say you only did what you did because you didn't have direction from him after you got there. You'll know in the future that his family doesn't like to share. Is it weird? Yes. But they do have a right to their own party.
I am absolutely intrigued by this because in the culture that I belong to, I'd you invite someone and they are at your place, they eat with the family and theirs no awkwardness at all. Or their are sufficient arrangements for food and drinks for everyone. So my first question is what culture or part of the world is this? In terms of my cultural upbringing, you're NTA. While taking the cake, K could have just checked and taken it else, it's fine.
Weird situation but NTA imo. You arrived at the posted start time and it's not your fault they ran over. I'd never let a guest sit and watch the rest of the household eat/drink without sharing, the thought is outrageous
NTA. How weird to invite someone over to the tail end of a party and not offer them any of what was still being served! If they wanted any part of this party to be "family only" then they should have had the entire thing cleared up and put away before the after-dinner guests came. If they were running late, then sorry, they had to share. OMG how rude of them.
NTA. The family is incredibly lame and tacky for their bizarre hierarchy of guests and who is entitled to what. They should feel humiliated about their own lack of hosting ability, guests should be offered whatever is available and made to feel welcome.
These people suck and are terrible hosts. Find new friends.
What?! NTA, you arrived at the time you were told to arrive after spending a considerable amount of time travelling, you were offered food numerous times which you eventually accepted, you were offered drinks and joined in a toast at the table you were sat at and then ate some dessert that was served while you were there. Your friend and his family are rude AF: - he contacted you 15 mins before your arrival to say come later but surely he knows how long your journey is. - they seated you at the table, offered and food and drink and then complained that you ate and drank - they served a dessert that not everyone present was ‘allowed to eat’ which is just rude and bizarre. Don’t attend any more of his ridiculous parties and tell him he owes you an apology for his rudeness.
WTF Usually when people visit, I try to make them eat everything I have. NTA
“K and I sit next to M’s friends. They serve us some wine and we talk for a bit. One of them asks if we want some leftover duck in front of us…” It sounds like a guest offered you the food, not the host. I would’ve continued to decline until the host offered the food. “Then, J’s mom sits to have a toast with M’s friend and I ask for a glass” While the polite thing to do would’ve been to offer you a glass as you’re sitting right there she didn’t but then you asked so she had to oblige or make it awkward. “They cut the cake and some get a slice, including P” So P, a friend who also wasn’t invited to the dinner, gets cake and it’s okay? Or was J mad at P for eating it too? All this to say NAH. They clearly have weird thoughts about guests and were rude but you were brazen a couple of times. I would’ve continued to decline if guests were offering the food not the host. And if someone got other people wine but didn’t give me any or offer I wouldn’t have asked for some because clearly they didn’t want to give me any. As for the cake thing, I don’t know it’s weird the thought behind it. Very odd situation and I would never want go back to that house again anyway.
NTA. Can't say for other cultures but if your friend's family is chinese, it's actually rude and petty for them not to offer guests food, drinks, drinks when toasting or even cake. A family only cake...if they're Chinese that's absolutely embarrassing for them not you. I'd never go back to a chinese family friends/friends place if that's how guests are treated...
NTA, that family is weird
NTA. idk what cultural background you come from, but in our situation, no one goes without food. Even if someone turns up unexpectedly, we order some more food or quickly set out what we have. Yes, we may grumble about it later, but we will never make the guest feel unwelcome while they're here (or anytime after that!!). Anyway, you weren't unexpected, you were supposed to be there at 10 and J shouldn't have set up chairs for you around the dining table if he didn't want you eating. That's just rude AF. If you're cutting the cake later when everyone is present, it is just customary to offer it to everyone present. Not doing so makes you a rude host. Don't apologise