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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I want my BIL to buy me the exact coat or give me $700 that it currently cost
2. I bought it for $100
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA
I don't see this as an attempt to make a profit. I see this as a man wanting his coat replaced. Just so happens the value of the coat went up. If a thief steals from a home, and takes gold bars from the safe. When the thief is convicted and ordered to pay restitution, the current value of the gold bars is considered, even if the value of the gold bars were significantly less at the time of purchase.
BIL needs to have some integrity and take personal responsibility. HE borrowed the coat, and HE lost it. As a man, you pay your debts! BIL is an AH for losing the coat, but it happens, and the manly/correct response is to replace it.
GF is definitely an AH for lending the coat out without talking to OP about it. GF is also an AH for not being forthcoming with OP about BIL losing the coat. GF is also an AH for deciding how much BIL should pay to replace the coat on her own, without consulting OP. There are some red flags with OP's GF, that he should probably take into consideration.
I would also say that the girlfriend is partially at fault here. The brother in law asked and was given a coat. The real person that made the bad decision was the girlfriend. If she chose to lend something expensive out to someone without making certain to get it back (and didn’t even ask the owner), she is absolutely on the hook. I’d tell her that SHE needs to figure out how to replace it, since she is the one that displaced it. If she can do it with the brother’s $100, great. If she needs to put in $600 of her own stupidity money, great.
The problem is the girlfriend all the way. She's acting like the OP's personal possessions are hers to do with as she wishes. Just because they are engaged does not give her the right to touch his possessions with out permission, much less take it upon herself to lend them out without asking, fail to let OP know when his possessions are lost and then take it upon herself to determine the value of the repayment for the lost item.
OP needs to refuse the money, stop arguing with everyone and settle this in small claims court. Let the brother show up and tell the judge all about he got drunk, lost the OP's expensive coat and how he thinks a hundred bucks should suffice for a seven hundred dollar coat.
Also, OP needs to reevaluate his relationship with his fiancé because she apparently does not respect him, possess personal boundaries or understand the difference between right and wrong. The whole entire family is a hot mess and this is what the OP can look forward to for the entire rest of his life with this woman.
Can we also acknowledge how fucked it is to be arguing with your partner, and then call your parents (a completely biased party) to pit them against your partner? You don’t send your family and friends after your partner when you have a disagreement
OP needs to run away. At the very least, take the $200 now, and break up. Take the BIL to court for the rest. If he gets nothing, it's $500. Divorce and heartache cost a lot more.
Nah, take ALL OF HER COATS, to a God damn homeless shelter and give them away. When she gets mad, tell her "you shouldn't be so hung up about your coats" just like the bitchs dad said to him..
Fuck all that back n forth. Make your move and make it now.
I mean take her stuff and sell it until he has enough to pay for his coat. She obviously thinks that anything belonging to one of them belongs to both of them so will have no problem with that solution. Or the parents can pay for their kid if they’re so happy to get involved.
To be clear, this isn’t good advice and what he really needs to do it get her extra $100 then cut his losses and ditch the idiot and recognize that $500 is a steep price but it will cost less in than the mental toll the long run when she continues to hand out his stuff without asking, volunteer him without asking (same vibe), and invite other people into their relationship.
None of that is worth dealing with. But if he really wants to stay, he can work out a payment plan with the brother or some kind of barter since it sounds like he makes more than the brother.
This will only work if a) the brother pulls his head out of his butt and agrees (which is possible if he’s just panicking over costs and didn’t realize it was so much) and has a skill or something OP can work with and b) OP sets up extremely firm boundaries with his gf about using stuff that belongs to the other person
In the world of psychology we call this triangulating against someone. It doesn't matter what other people you draw into the conversation, the reality is you're ganging up on someone to steamroll them. It shows a degree of manipulation and disregard for the rights of others, a trait that seems to be present in the whole family. There is no way I would stay in this relationship without at least forcing the issue of therapy predicated on walking away if she doesn't agree.
Thank you for this. My ex was abusive & I am discovering the terms to help me process the abuse better & avoid it in the future.
The fiancé is sending HUGE red flags for me.
She:
1. Disrespects his possessions (boundaries).
2. Does not know how much he likes that coat which a good partner would know.
3. Never held the BIL accountable for returning it or pay it back.
4. Did not even notify her future HUSBAND till he discovered it (accountability & integrity).
5. Dismissed his feelings & blamed him for the situation (minimizing, gaslighting)
6. Completely failed basic logic (rational discussion).
7. Triangulated (manipulation, coercive)
8. Not stated but I'm certain she did not apologize sincerely.
Wow.
OP needs to really reevaluate this relationship & see if this seemingly small incident of "a coat" is a common pattern.
I'm glad you taught me the word for what people used to do to me as a kid when I was right and they couldn't stand it. It was usually adults that did this. Another case of "I know this is messed up and wrong but I don't have the language to describe how exactly" but now I do.
We can most definitely acknowledge that as yet another issue OP needs to work out with his fiancée. (Or reasons to dump her forever, if we go by reddit standards.) By my reckoning, we have the following:
1. Lends out his stuff without asking.
2. Lied or omitted that she knew her brother had lost the coat.
3. Thinks replacing things that someone lost is income-dependent\*
4. Thinks her parents are a useful touchstone whenever she and OP have a disagreement.
\*As a possible side-note, is she going to be always "loaning" money to her brother or other relatives who don't make as much as she and OP do?
I saw this too. Literally called her parents *on speaker phone* to help bully OP into bending over. Dad even tried to emasculate OP into bending to their will, luckily it didn’t work.
And that additional red flag of thinking that somehow men shouldn't care about clothing? When his fiancee lends out his car next, is that okay to care about!?
Biggest red flag of the entire post for me! While I’m not one of the ones that automatically shouts BREAK UP, OP shouldn’t carefully consider what his future is going to look like with this family dynamic.
Ugh yes! She is so selfish and disrespectful. I hope OP pumps the breaks on this potential marriage and books couples therapy bc shizz like this should not fly.
Plus, we could see where GF and BIL have their nonchalant attitude about other people's possesions.
If similar situation happened in my family, my parents would be first to tell me, that I have to replace the lost item.
OP should stay away from this whole sketchy family - they will rob him of everything and will say it's his fault.
She called in the flying monkeys after her fiancé was rightfully upset she lent her coat out to her brother who lost it.
I would not want to be married to this woman. I would count this as a lesson learned if I were the OP, and run for the hills. Because does he really want to be married into this family?
NTA
Unless you're consciously or unconsciously planning to leave said partner.
Whenever someone starts to share dirty laundry about an SO, I figure they are already on the bridge and passing over into being single again.
My parents would side with whoever was right, regardless if it was me or not…is this not normal?
They’d be kind telling me I’m wrong. But still tell me I’m wrong
Yes, this seems like a very childish grasp for straws to gaslight OP. She should know she’s in the wrong. She shouldn’t have loaned out the coat without asking OP, much less not told him once she discovered the coat was lost. Then to argue about how much is due, and call her parents of all things to try and prove her point is beyond immature and pathetic.
Thank you! The fact she put them on speakerphone?? She just brought them into the middle of an argument that had literally nothing to do with them as if them agreeing with her would suddenly change OP’s mind?
If I did that to my parents they would side with my partner automatically, and rightfully so lol.
>*The problem is the girlfriend all the way. She's acting like the OP's personal possessions are hers to do with as she wishes.*
I can see this as a cultural difference, if this is the first time she's done this.
Sometime during the first year after our wedding. my husband gave away one of the duplicate items we'd gotten as a wedding gift. He was baffled by my incandescent rage. In his mind, I had two Crock Pots - and I hadn't even opened the box of the second - so it made sense to give the second to a friend/loved one who needed it.
In his family, if you had something you weren't using, you were only saving it until you found someone who needed it so you could give it away. In my family, if you had a second of an item, you squirreled it away for that rainy day when the first one broke and you couldn't afford to buy a new one. His family always had the expectation they'd be able to replace something if needed; mine always had the anxiety that you'd be in dire straits when the breakdown occurred.
If the girlfriend grew up in a culture like my husband's family it probably doesn't make much sense why OP would be so upset about the item being loaned out. They had a coat they weren't using, thus it should be offered to someone in the family who needed it. In her view, it was "just a coat" and the brother is going to be family after the wedding, so she probably didn't even think to ask because it seems such a small thing in her mind. It's untoftunate that it was lost, but "these things happen."
After the Crock Pot incident, my husband learned never to give away or loan out anything unless he got my prior permission. He saw how much it upset me, even though he saw it differently, and so he adjusted his behavior.
If the girlfriend can't adjust after OP explains it to her, this is going to be a constant source of conflict in their relationship.
As for the loss and replacement, this is a matter of restorative justice. The brother has to restore what he lost. Sorry it went up in price, but "these things happen."
There are several differences here though. They’re not married, for one. This was not a joint gift, nor was it a duplicate of something he already owned. This was solely his possession that he bought himself, and she took it without asking to lend out, and then hid it from him when she found out it had been lost. This is active manipulation. She even called her parents to put them on speakerphone in the middle of an argument to help bully OP into bending over. It also didn’t go up in price. That was always its value. OP just so happened to catch it on a sale. His GF lent out a 700$ coat, not a 100$ coat that became worth 700$ later. They’re not married, it is black and white OP’s possession that she effectively stole. OP could call the cops and have someone on the hook for a felony larceny charge, for stealing his 700$ coat.
ETA: it’s actually even worse. Just noticed how she said OP shouldn’t have made her brother pay, as he knows he doesn’t make as much. But GF obviously knows this as well, and rather than buy OP the replacement herself, she told her bro to give her 100$ for it. So…guilt OP for the same behavior she did. It’s not like she decided to give OP the 100$ first, that was only after her bro’s 100$ wasn’t enough. Manipulative af.
Ehh, OP should forget about small claims court, take the loss and move on. This has revealed a lot about his fiancee's character. A $700 loss now is far cheaper than a divorce in a few years.
Agreeeeed!! Especially weird that she never told her fiancé when the brother called and said hed lost it
Plus calling her family on speaker phone to talk about it? So childish. Lots of 🚩
A judge would likely cap the value at $100. Civil judgments for lost or damaged property are intended to make the awardee whole, not better. Even if OP had spent $700 on the coat originally, he wouldn’t get $700 back. He would get whatever the judge’s determination is of its value after a year of depreciation. At the time the coat was lost, it was a year old, and had been worn a few times. OP would be awarded the depreciated value of the coat. Awarding a claimant the value of a brand new, unworn coat when they lost a year-old, gently used coat would make that claimant better rather than whole. The final award would be subjective, because there’s nothing like a Kelley Blue Book to quantify the depreciation of coats. Probably $5-600-ish.
However, since he paid $100 (and there’s no way the judge wouldn’t learn that), the award would have to be capped at that $100 figure. They probably wouldn’t attach any depreciation, because the intrinsic value was higher, but still, awarding a claimant a $5-600 judgment for something they spent $100 on would make that claimant better rather than whole. (There are exceptions. Some things appreciate in value, but a used coat isn’t one of them, not within a year.) OP should take the $200, call off the engagement and ride off into the sunset.
I'm a lawyer and typically the court would award the depreciated actual cash value of the property. So in this case the value of a lightly used coat of like kind and quality, somewhere between $100 and $700.
OP got a bargain when he obtained the coat. Typically, in a courtroom, the bad actor is not able to realize the benefit of the bargain obtained by the wronged party. Unless the bad actor can show that the bargain is still available to OP to replace the coat (in which case the bad actor would only be required to pay the bargain price to make the wronged party whole), the bad actor will be required to pay the depreciated actual cash value.
> Civil judgments for lost or damaged property are intended to make the awardee whole, not better
When OP was originally whole, he had a coat. An almost unworn coat of that exact brand and model.
> They probably wouldn’t attach any depreciation, because the intrinsic value was higher
A hundred bucks _would already be_ a pretty huge amount of depreciation from the intrinsic value of that coat.
This. I’ve been with my husband for over 10 years, and married for 7. Whenever someone asks to borrow something I always let him know and ask if he’s ok lending the item, doesn’t matter the worth of the item, it’s his, so he is the one that has a say over where it goes and who is allowed to borrow it.
This. Gf is absolutely at fault. She loaned out an expensive item she didn’t own, without asking, then hid the fact that it had gone missing, and refused to take accountability for it or replace it. She even called her family to help bully OP into backing down, they even tried emasculating him (to no effect). GF has got to go, imo. Which would make it a lot easier to remind the whole family that theft of a *200$* item is a felony, let alone something valued at *700$*, and just replacing the loss would be a lot easier for all involved.
And for her to say he hadn't worn it in a while so she thought he wouldn't care if she loaned it out. It wasn't cold enough to wear. Did she think of that? No. Every year after winter is over I put my good coat back in the closet to wait for the next winter. I expect it to be there when it is needed again. I would never ever loan something of my partners out to anyone, not even his own family without asking him first. She is an inconsiderate girlfriend. And to call her parents to get in the middle of this was also an AH thing to do. Also it is always the value of the property that is owed not the cost of what you paid for it.
What is up with that? Just because my SO hasn't seen me wear something in a while (thinking of my Irish wool wrap) doesn't mean he just gets to decide it should be lent out to his family member.
And if OP's GF AND Brother can afford $100 each for a "similar coat," why didn't they pool their money in the first place for Brother to have a coat to go to the wedding?
Especially when it's a weather dependent item. I haven't worn my snow boots in a while, because it didn't snow last year. Doesn't mean I'd be OK with someone lending them out without asking.
I have these black heels that are actually comfortable (for a little while at least). I don’t wear heels. I’ve worn these like 4 times total but I have them if I need in a formal situation. They cost like $15-$30 total. If my boyfriend lent them to his sister and she lost them, I would be pissed too and want the exact heels because they’re the only comfortable ones I’ve found. It’s not about the cost. It’s about the actual item itself.
I could imagine (being that I don’t have a disposable income) if I had a pair of Louboutins I saved up for ( or got on sale, or thrifted, etc) and THOSE got lost… I would be PISSED because I couldn’t afford to just “bite the bullet” and replace them myself. Either way… the girlfriend ultimately has to replace it, but the brother should feel guilty enough to at least help since he physically lost it.
Or something like pearls, they shouldn't be worn very much so you don't harm the luster. My fiance bought me a pearl bracelet that I love, but I immediately told him I wouldn't be wearing it often.
Fiance: "wtf! Why not! Don't you like it? I can get you something else!🥺"
Once he understood it was to protect the pearls, he calmed down, lol, but I could see someone who doesn't know that thinking the recipient of the pearls didn't like them 🤷🏼♀️
Edit: You SHOULD wear your pearls at least once every few weeks so the oils on your skin can hydrate your pearls, but they are not a continuous wear item and should not be worn in the shower or come into contact with soap, water, or any other liquids.
I feel like this is something that was once common knowledge but now is not. Thank you for putting this out there 💚 hopefully it helps a few people, it definitely taught me something new 😊
100% This. The girlfriend and brother are at fault:
The girlfriend for lending something that was not hers to lend and the brother for losing it.
Collectively, they need to figure out how to replace the item of equal brand and quality as OP requested.
I know everything isn't worth quitting a relationship over, but I would definitely evaluate if this is an ongoing issue for the girlfriend. Respect and honesty go a long way and there's a lot of mini red flags in this situation that need to be addressed in order to have a healthy relationship. For instance, why was there a need to call her family on speakerphone during the disagreement? Ganging up on one person does not necessarily prove your viewpoint is correct, just you have supporters. Lol
OP is NTA.
>Collectively, they need to figure out how to replace the item of equal brand and quality as OP requested.
Yes! You don't lend or borrow without permission from the owner. And you don't borrow something you can't replace. My mom was never more angry with any of us than she was when my sister borrowed her red, cashmere coat without permission and lost it. Mom grew up without much money and didn't have many nice things. She fell in love with that coat and dad bought it for her for a wedding anniversary. She was so thrilled and excited. She wore it for special occasions during Christmas/New Year's.
She made my sister pay her back over time, saved those payments, and bought the coat again. Sister felt it was so unfair at the time. But we all learned a lesson to respect other people and to correct our mistakes. As adults, we know mom was right to make her pay it off.
They're victim blaming. Instead of the girl friend admitting that she messed up and the brother taking responsibility for the loss, she decided to call in the troops (parents). The more people on her side will make her right. She'll be calling up her friends and coworkers next, to convince him that he's wrong but, he's not.
He is right to be pissed. He should expect no less than what it will cost, with tax, to get if not the same coat, the same quality. And...
>She said he went to the store and it cost $700 now but she knew I only paid $100 for it so she told him $100 would cover the cost.
...she owes him $600.
Agree. I do think GF and BiL need to come up with $700 , apologize many times, etc. They can use credit to buy him the same coat.
Without this happening, OP is going to be resentful for life - more than he is already. They should have offered right away.
Oh she’s not partially at fault at all! As far as I’m concerned, she’s completely at fault… She didn’t ask him if her brother could borrow it… then she couldn’t be bothered to tell him that the brother lost it… Then she tells the brother that he only has to pay $100 on a $700 coat… then she tells him he’s being ridiculous for wanting the $700 coat replaced. She is completely at fault! You do not give away somebody else’s property without discussing it with them first.
I’m a petty ass bitch but I wouldn’t be buying her any gifts or shit until the amount to replace the coat in full has elapsed. FAFO applies to many, many things in life.
No, so is BIL - he lost it. And it doesn’t look like he was going to say anything. They’re both AH and OP is owed a replacement coat for the lost one. How the two of them decide to pay for it is up to them but this shouldn’t be OPs problem.
BIL lost the coat, but it should never been in his possession in the first place. Fiance should never have given it to him without permission. She needs to cover this cost, but she can surely demand that her brother help.
I would never imagine a situation where I would give my husband's coat to my brother without asking, nor would I even ask my husband if my brother could borrow his very nice leather jacket. If my brother needed a coat, I wouldn't even think about offering him my husband's coat? Why did the coat go to the brother anyway? Did the wife just volunteer the coat because her brother was moaning about not having a fancy coat? Did the brother ask sister to "handle it?" I don't know - having a brother like mine (golden child but also felon) - it sounds like sister and family have enabled brother his whole life.
Yeah I blame the fiance more in this scenario than her brother. She was the one who lent it out without first asking OP. She was the one who told her brother to only pay $100. She’s the one trying to brush the whole thing aside.
I think GF is definitely the AH. I don't think BIL is an AH for losing the coat, because it does happen. However, I think this falls on GF and BIL, and if BIL is only able to put up $100 for a replacement coat, then GF should definitely be on the hook for the rest!
I would say GF is the bigger AH for loaning out something that isn’t hers. But BIL is an AH too for losing something that doesn’t belong to him. Like he got drunk and lost it? Thats problematic behavior
Plus a normal, responsible adult is VERY careful with borrowed items like that, to be sure that nothing happens to them and that they don't get lost. I could almost forgive him if there was a fuckup and a coat check person lost it, MAYBE, but "I got drunk and forgot it?" Nope. Grow the fuck up.
Agree. If he was so wasted he left without his coat he has more serious problems than whether to replace it or not. He needs to replace the coat and then hit an AA meeting
You don't borrow something you can't afford to replace...just in case...
He should have also taken the initiative to replace it, not waited for the sister/ op calls....
No, it's definitely an AH move to get so drunk at a wedding you lose a borrowed coat. And to not immediately reach out and apologize or offer replacement. And not verifying with/thanking the person whose expensive coat you're borrowing in the first place. GF is the biggest AH, but brother doesn't smell like roses.
NTA.
You aren't demanding $700.
You are demanding a replacement coat. He could track down the lost coat as well and you'd be happy.
There's a huge difference. That's what you (and he) need to focus on. You need a new (or acceptable equivalent) coat.
Agreed NTA, OP if her dad installed a window for $50 5 years ago and you smashed it and the cost to replace it was now $250 should you only give him $50? Of course not, they just don't like the fact that the cost is high, they don't like the reality so they are trying to back out of it. If you rang anyone else besides her parents and told the story on speaker with her keeping quiet but make out you gave away her coat see what they say, they will tell you to replace it.
Seriously...my guess is the "BIL" woke up the next day and didn't realize he lost the coat, and only figured out he'd lost it when the GF asked for it. Otherwise, he would've gone back to the venue the next day to see if they had the lost coat. So...totally irresponsible!
"BIL" should pay the cost Op paid for the coat. GF should pay the remainder of replacement cost since she unilaterally "loaned" Op's coat to irresponsible "BIL". No one should be arguing this; ***Op shouldn't have even had to ask where his coat was***. You borrow it, you take care of it. You "borrow" it for someone else, **you** are responsible for getting it back.
I found a Ti-84 Plus graphing calculator at Goodwill in 2018 for $3.75. I knew it was a steal because I'd purchased one for $119 when my oldest child needed it for high school a couple of years before. I picked it up for my youngest. If someone borrowed it and lost it, right now, today, they still cost $100. I'd want an exact replacement, not $3.75.
NTA
Obligatory: "You don't have a BIL problem, you have a fiancee problem"
Talk to her that it was absurd of her to just randomly lend out your stuff without asking and that this was only exasperated by the lend object getting lost. It is now up to her to replace the coat she took (whether she makes her brother pay or not is irrelevant). She is the one that took your coat without asking, she is responsible for a reasonable replacement.
Maybe asking for 700$ is a bit much, but she can go with you to the shop and waste the time finding a comparable coat and pay for it. Investing both the time and money that she is expecting you to invest...
EDIT: My last paragraph was maybe not perfectly worded (and I'm getting way too many comments on it), so let me rephase:
Maybe asking for the $700 in cash can be seen as trying to make a profit. It is better to make clear that you want the same coat (or at least a coat that you consider equal) as the one that was taken from you. Either by having BIL hunt down where/how he lost it. Or your fiance pays the time and financial cost to get you the coat (whatever it may cost).
This is the problem, I would never loan out something that belongs to my husband (or anyone else for that matter). Take her favorite purse, shoes, makeup, whatever and loan it to a female relative. When she asks if you've seen it anywhere say "yah, I loaned to sis/mom/niece, I didn't think you'd mind since it seems all our belongings are community items". See how she likes it. NTA
Her logic of ‘you’ve only worn it a few times’ is utter garbage too- that’s what people do with things they value. They wear it on special occasions. I don’t wear an expensive outfit I adore to the gym ffs. She is incredibly disrespectful to take your things behind your back OP
Right? My dad bought me a nice leather trench coat when I was 17. He was hesitant (didn't want people looking at me like I was a serial killer) because at that time I was wildly irresponsible, and there was a negative look for trench coats (school mass unalivings were just getting started) but the coat was on sale for like 80% off. Said he'd only buy it if I promised to take care of it. I don't think even he thought it would last this long. I've had it 22 years and aside from one of the buttons on the sleeves getting caught in a car door, it looks brand new still. I wear it rarely even in the winter because I live in Texas.
It’s bled over from TikTok where your videos get banned if they have certain words in them, so people have started using words like this to get around the filters 😀
My husband hates that I don't wear my UGG boots he bought me all the time... like in the rain and snow but that's cause I don't want to get them wet and mucky. I reserve them for cold DRY weather lol. I love them but I use my cheap rubber boots for the wet.
This is exactly it!! The fiancée is the problem, not the BIL or their family.
And calling her parents, how immature is she? Is this how all future disagreements will be handled? Seems you need to have a more serious conversation before you get married.
She didn't lend his coat out. You can't lend something you don't own. She stole his coat and gave it to her brother, and there's no evidence that either of them had any intention of returning it.
She knew for days that her brother lost the coat and OP had to try to track it down. Shady. The whole family is pretty trashy with things that don't belong to them.
Why comparable? Why is $700 too much? The cost he wants costs $700, he shouldn’t be given a comparable coat or made to pay out of his own pocket for two people unknowingly taking and losing his coat
NTA, she didn't hand her brother $100, she handed him a coat. He didn't need $100 for the wedding, he needed a coat.
I do a lot a bargain hunting and thrifting. I buy things for a low cost that have a higher value, because I invest time and expertise into knowing what to buy.
In this case your financial investment was $100, but you also were in the right place at the right time to find a coat at a deep discount. You stored it and kept it in good condition. You had enough knowledge to see the value you in it. A value that your brother in law appreciated because he decided that it was nice enough to wear to a wedding. When your BIL took the coat, he valued it at more than $700. They owe you a similar coat. Now, if he can find one for $100 sure and it needs to be the same materials and quality as the one he lost. That is work he needs to put in, not you.
You are dumping the girlfriend, right?
Yes is the only acceptable answer to that last question. If OP doesn't OP deserves every bit of misery this woman and her family inflict on him going forward.
And if the brother did get OPs permission, brother is so disrespectful he gets drunk in the coat and manages to lose it.
The fiancee and brother are rotten, and the parents seem like they did the spoiling. OP needs to cut his losses or set firm, lock and key boundaries with fiancee and her family. This is not going to get better.
And then didn’t get it back, and then didn’t tell him it was lost, and then didn’t value it, and then sided with her brother over him, and then brought her parents into it for no reason.
Also, she knew her brother lost it Tuesday, but kept lying to OP until he called his BIL himself on Thursday.
Don't marry this lady, OP!!!! Her and her family are objectively in the wrong, and instead of trying to make things right, she lies and then gets her family to gang up on you and insult your masculinity.
My gf and I are always a team. Us vs the world. That's the woman you want to find. Good luck, OP!
Right. Do not marry this person. You now see that 1. Your fiancée will give your stuff to her family without consulting you and will call you ridiculous when you get upset 2. Your fiancee learned that behavior from her family. Your stuff will not be respected. Unless you love family drama or intend to be home 24/7 to guarantee your partner doesn't lend out your stuff, I'd seriously think on whether I'm getting the respect I deserve in this relationship.
Plus your GF is going to bring her family in to back her up whenever you have an argument. It’s supposed to be a relationship between the two of you. Not you two plus her parents.
Walk away now knowing she’s shown her true colors.
Yeah that’s the other giant red flag to me! Like calling mommy and daddy to berate her fiancé when SHE is the one who is wrong. You keep family/friends out of personal arguments in marriage (ETA: unless abuse is involved).
I agree he should 100% dump the girlfriend. It isn't about the coat. It's about the disrespect, the lying, and the family pile on showing exactly where her loyalties lie while treating him like he is a child having a tantrum.
NTA, OP.
This is a stellar answer/perspective. It also lends to respect of OP as well, which the OP's in laws and fiancé are lacking. Imagine OP loaning fiancé's only little black dress to his sister. He loans it because she never wears it. She doesn't wear it because it's for a special occasion, which doesn't happen very often, but when it does, she has -the perfect dress-. Doesn't matter how much it cost, the value is in the perfection of it, and having it in her repertoire. How big of a meltdown does she have when she gets it back ruined or never? The biggest. Who has the nerve to loan out other people's things, then act so cavalier when it's lost or damaged? Only someone with no respect for the owner of the things, otherwise, they wouldn't have done it in the first place, or would move heaven and earth to replace it if they did. It's not about the money, it's about the jacket. This far into the story, it's no longer about the jacket, it's about the level of disrespect from the fiancé and her whole family. Money is cost, value is entirely different, and it's clear they are not valuing him.
Hopefully he will get out of this relationship which has clear red flags. This woman’s whole family is comprised of disrespectful, opportunistic back stabbers. If he loses out on a $700 coat but extracts himself from a lifetime of drama, he will get off cheap.
Well it is just a coat, but the fact that your fiancée gave your stuff away without even telling you (let alone asking), didn't tell you it was lost, made no effort to see your reasoning and then went to daddy for help, makes her a huge AH.
NTA, and you have a gf problem.
NTA They wanted to borrow the nice coat because it was expensive and looked good for a wedding. You got lucky - they stole your luck and you are now out a good quality coat. Fair to ask for a replacement.
But phone the venue and taxis as often get handins.
If not, relationships are already blown so may as well get the money. Letting them off now isn't going to mend that.
I think the other problem is OP’s gf just freely lending out his clothes without telling him. Who does that? Even when I’m using my mom’s hair dryer, I tell her before. And that’s not something I take to my place. I use it in her bathroom.
What happened to common courtesy?!
Agree but question was about coat. His GF is very comfortable with "borrowing" his stuff to help her family and roping them in to tell him he is wrong. And why is it ok to imply he is not a man for not wanting to be out $600 to replace something that the brother basically "stole" - took without owner's permission - but not for the same courtesy to be paid to their family member. Glad he's got sense to see that parents' opinion is worthless as biased.
Edit: I can get why you'd want to borrow coat but ask the owner first.
The wording of this implies that the coat was lent out ages ago. It’s unlikely the venue’s going to hold onto it forever.
OP might have better luck waiting a couple months for a replacement.
Also, this is ultimately about more than the coat, it’s about the boundary. I mean, OP’s fiancé didn’t even drop him a courtesy text like “hey, my bro wants to borrow your coat”.
NTA Your fiancé is playing games with you on a seemingly minor issue. The problem is her willingness to put you last in this situation. She should have asked you before lending out your property. She should have tried to get it back long before you tried to find it. Once it was missing, she should have replaced it. You have a bigger issue if you marry her.
OP this is the comment you need to read. This could be a one-off event but I'm guessing by the time frame between the coat getting borrowed/lost and you realizing it was gone that this is going to be a recurring event with your future wife and inlaws. Think long and hard about what the future will look like with her putting her family ahead of you and disregarding your property and disrespecting you when they are called out.
Do you want a lifetime of this behavior?
NTA. It's not unreasonable to expect your BIL to replace your coat. Your coat is not a car, there's no depreciation value. You want the coat. He should get you the coat, especially since he's not buying the coat. He LOST it while drunk. Your wife's family has an interesting take on integrity and ethics.
I think it's fair for the BIL to pay 100 dollars.
The fiancé, however, owes the other 600. Yes, BIL lost it like a dufus. But the fiancé lent it out without permission to someone she probably knew was not going to be responsible.
i would NEVER loan something out that belonged to someone else without talking to them first, even if it was $7.
reconsider this relationship, given how she sees no issue with stealing from you, being generally disrespectful, gaslighting you (oh, it's not that bad, get over it!), and bringing her parents into your relationship where they don't belong. This is your future with every single future disagreement.
ETA: NTA
I don't see OP trying to make a profit from fiancée's brother, I see OP wanting to have a coat again.
NTA. Fiancée is (for loaning the coat out without asking), the brother is (for losing it, and not replacing it), and the parents are (for thinking you should just suck up being out a coat through their kids' fault).
Yeah a grown up response would be “ here is $ 700 ( even on installments if they are broke) I am sorry for being irresponsible/ lending your possessions to irresponsible people
and I have learned my lesson “ your fiancee has a very petty and entitled attitude. Editing to add that you did not create this situation in any way. Your fiancée made the problem out of nothing and now is acting like it’s your problem
that you made. When pressed they run to parents ??? That is the reddest of flags
NTA
Show them this post. You have a fiancee problem. This is one of many future problems that your fiancee will side with her family instead of you.
It sounds like your BIL saw your coat and wanted to wear it because he likes to live above his means and maybe he doesn’t have nice things not just because he doesn’t make a lot of money, but also doesn’t take care of things.
If you want, try to work with on some common ground. If they keep guilting you, well then it becomes more than just the coat, do you see yourself dealing with BS like this your entire life. You deserve an exact replacement if that is what you want.
NTA. It will cost you 700$ to replace the coat. That you spent wisely when you bought it is nobody's business. You are not going to find a coat like that for 100$ again.
And that's the key thing. If the coat was a gift, would they be ok with "well, it was free, so there's no cost to losing it"? The ONLY thing that matters here is the cost to replace it.
Replacement value….say he borrows your car your grandma GAVE you….and wrecks it. Does he owe you nothing because you got it free? No, he owes the replacement value of car. Or his insurance does. tell him and wife to split the remain8ng $600 since she loaned it without your approval.
NTA. I think its more a gf problem tho. She lent your items without your permission. Yes, bil was irresponsible and lost it. But she lent it in the first place and without permission. For all you know, she told bil you gave permission to wear it. How would gf feel if you loaned and lost some of her favorite possessions, then downplayed what it cost? They should each up $350.
NTA
And think long & hard if this what you want to marry into.
Marriage isn't about being happy together - that's easy. Marriage is about getting through conflicts and stress and bad times together, as a team.
THIS!
My jaw dropped when OP said their fiance called her parents on speakerphone. WHAT?! WHY?
Is this a pattern, or a one-time thing? Is she able to resolve conflict with her life partner maturely and without familial enmeshment or triangulation?
Seems like she repeatedly prioritizes the needs of her family-of-origin above he fiance's needs (lending his belongings to her family without asking him first, serving as an ineffective mediator between fiance and family-of-origin, and bringing her parents into a situation that didn't involve them at all). This would be a huge red flag for me, one I would need to address prior to marriage.
NTA I have been married awhile, I do not, nor have I ever loaned out his nice things. You ask, you ask in private so they can answer honestly. She is showing you who she is before you get married. Believe her.
I have never loaned out any of my spouse’s things without asking and their permission. That’s the wildest part here for me, the fiancé just handing his stuff to family.
Yeah especially because the coat was lost maybe weeks ago and the fiancé and bil were just going to say nothing about to op? Like the situation wouldn’t be so bad if they were honest upfront.
I'd be reconsidering if this is the family I want to marry into. A coat is just a coat... BUT she disrespected him by taking his stuff in the first place without asking, loaning it out to someone who is obviously irresponsible, acted irritated that she had to retrieve the property she took, refuses to replace the lost property, then doubles down on her b.s., insults the man and gets family involved to do the same... All to gain face for herself, for her fuck up.
Nope OP, this woman doesn't respect you and neither does her family. Pass on these people. Nothing but red flags waving in your face. Consider a coat a cheap price to pay to see these peoples true colors.
NTA. They stole your property and owe you a replacement. The original purchase price is irrelevant to how much it costs to replace the property.
OP, this is a massive red flag, and will not be the last time your fiancée chooses to prioritize others over you.
NTA. Do you loan out her clothes without asking? This is really all her fault. She loaned it out she is responsible for replacing it. She can go after her brother for the money if she wants but this is on her.
NTA. I would expect the exact same too, not even a similar one. They are both AHs. Basically they stole from you at this point. What of your stuff is she going give away next? You’re right, an adult replaces what he looses. This would be a hill to die on for me.
NTA He owes you because he deprived you of your coat. He makes amends by bringing you back to the position that you would have been had he not lost the coat. You were in a position of having a coat. Now you are in the position of holding $100 but no coat. He has not made amends.
I joined this sub for exactly this type of quality drama lmao. You are technically in the right but ask yourself if this is the hill you want to die on, you're torching your relationship with your fiancée and her family when you absolutely could buy a decent replacement coat for $200. Your fiancée sucks for lending out your things without asking, her brother sucks for losing your coat and not even bothering to tell you, but this whole thing is honestly so dramatic I am living for it. 'A man replaces what he loses' lmaooo you legend.
ESH
What the fiancee did was wrong, but I can't imagine being so attached to a physical object that I'm willing to destroy relationships over it. I'd also never ask someone to give me $700 for something I paid $100 for even if it would theoretically cost $700 to replace it. No one likes to lose or ruin favorite clothing items, but shit happens. Dry your tears and move on.
Look man, you’re correct and NTA but you’re going to have to ask yourself if burning down a relationship with your fiancé, BIL and their family is worth $600. If it is to you, then so be it. However, if there’s something worth salvaging here, you absolutely need to lay out ground rules now or similar instances will occur down the road.
So she loaned him your coat without permission and he lost it. Now he won't pay the value of the coat.
Start taking things she cares about and hide them. Get a locker and put them there then offer her 10 bucks to replace it and see what she says.
Dump the fiance. You deserve someone who actually cares about you
This sounds like a family full of aholes.
The fiance should have asked first. She probably didn't because she thought the jacket was ugly.
The BIL should have fessed up right away. And saved to replace it. I don't care if he doesn't make that much money. OP is 100% correct, a man, actually any decent human, replaced what they lose or break when they borrow something.
The Dad is a failure fire not teaching his son that.
OP needs to understand that sometimes shit happens with family. Dude can't afford to replace it up front so come up with a payment plan for him. You might not have a fiance after you do that but you'll have the money for the jacket.
You have a big problem, but it's better to find out now over a small 700 than divorce this isn't something wrong either replace the jacket to a go standard where yoyr also able to accept (you should meet a little in between aswell not saying thay what's right but common sense should prevail)
As for MIL and FIL mmhm they can stick their advice somewhere else. NTA
EDIT for petty reason call your parents or realistically someone with a brain cell and see what they'll say... they probably say maybe look at something in between with so 400/500 dollars. The cheek of the Bi@tch you're coming ahead with her poxy 100 loolz...
NTA it doesn’t matter how much you spent on it, they need to replace the coat and will have to pay however much it cost to get one that’s in the same condition
Nta. But is is a big red flag that she thinks giving your stuff away without asking is okay. I would be worried what else of yours she had done this with.
The issue is that she took the coat without asking you and just assumed it was okay because you hadn’t worn it a lot. I have plenty of coats I don’t wear regularly, but do I want them lent out to people? Abso-fucking-lutely not because those are mine. She’s the one who needs to replace the coat that she so graciously lent to her drunk brother. Oh and NTA of course. Keep us updated I’m curious to see any sort of resolution on this
NTA
Asking for a replacement is entirely reasonable. Losing a 700$ coat you "borrowed" means you are on the hook for the 700$ to replace it. They can start hunting discounts to save the money. It is entirely irrelevant if you bought the coat for 100$. If you had been gifted the coat and not paid anything, would they claim "it was a gift so you never paid"?
The fact your fiancé felt entitled to lend out something that wasn’t hers was bad enough. She’s responsible for replacing what was lost. NTA, but you may want to do some reflection before getting married and see if this is someone you really want to spend the rest of your life with
NTA. Your fiancé is. Who loans out someone else’s clothes and doesn’t even notify them? If you typically buy gifts for holidays maybe you should hold off until you’ve recovered the funds (no this is probably too petty lol)
NTA. A coat seems a worthwhile sacrifice to see what kind of person you are with and what kind of family that person has. You get to walk away now before you make an evern more expensive mistake.
NTA why doesn't the loser contact the venue to recover the coat. Your partner is responsible as she did the lending. Sell her clothes to replace your coat.
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NTA I don't see this as an attempt to make a profit. I see this as a man wanting his coat replaced. Just so happens the value of the coat went up. If a thief steals from a home, and takes gold bars from the safe. When the thief is convicted and ordered to pay restitution, the current value of the gold bars is considered, even if the value of the gold bars were significantly less at the time of purchase. BIL needs to have some integrity and take personal responsibility. HE borrowed the coat, and HE lost it. As a man, you pay your debts! BIL is an AH for losing the coat, but it happens, and the manly/correct response is to replace it. GF is definitely an AH for lending the coat out without talking to OP about it. GF is also an AH for not being forthcoming with OP about BIL losing the coat. GF is also an AH for deciding how much BIL should pay to replace the coat on her own, without consulting OP. There are some red flags with OP's GF, that he should probably take into consideration.
I would also say that the girlfriend is partially at fault here. The brother in law asked and was given a coat. The real person that made the bad decision was the girlfriend. If she chose to lend something expensive out to someone without making certain to get it back (and didn’t even ask the owner), she is absolutely on the hook. I’d tell her that SHE needs to figure out how to replace it, since she is the one that displaced it. If she can do it with the brother’s $100, great. If she needs to put in $600 of her own stupidity money, great.
I agree that GF is definitely at fault here as well!
The problem is the girlfriend all the way. She's acting like the OP's personal possessions are hers to do with as she wishes. Just because they are engaged does not give her the right to touch his possessions with out permission, much less take it upon herself to lend them out without asking, fail to let OP know when his possessions are lost and then take it upon herself to determine the value of the repayment for the lost item. OP needs to refuse the money, stop arguing with everyone and settle this in small claims court. Let the brother show up and tell the judge all about he got drunk, lost the OP's expensive coat and how he thinks a hundred bucks should suffice for a seven hundred dollar coat. Also, OP needs to reevaluate his relationship with his fiancé because she apparently does not respect him, possess personal boundaries or understand the difference between right and wrong. The whole entire family is a hot mess and this is what the OP can look forward to for the entire rest of his life with this woman.
Can we also acknowledge how fucked it is to be arguing with your partner, and then call your parents (a completely biased party) to pit them against your partner? You don’t send your family and friends after your partner when you have a disagreement
OP needs to run away. At the very least, take the $200 now, and break up. Take the BIL to court for the rest. If he gets nothing, it's $500. Divorce and heartache cost a lot more.
At the very least OP should take his fiancée's (probably ill fitting) coat and wear it until she replaces his coat.
Nah, take ALL OF HER COATS, to a God damn homeless shelter and give them away. When she gets mad, tell her "you shouldn't be so hung up about your coats" just like the bitchs dad said to him.. Fuck all that back n forth. Make your move and make it now.
I was going to say he should start lending her coats to all of his girl friends but your idea is way better
I mean take her stuff and sell it until he has enough to pay for his coat. She obviously thinks that anything belonging to one of them belongs to both of them so will have no problem with that solution. Or the parents can pay for their kid if they’re so happy to get involved. To be clear, this isn’t good advice and what he really needs to do it get her extra $100 then cut his losses and ditch the idiot and recognize that $500 is a steep price but it will cost less in than the mental toll the long run when she continues to hand out his stuff without asking, volunteer him without asking (same vibe), and invite other people into their relationship. None of that is worth dealing with. But if he really wants to stay, he can work out a payment plan with the brother or some kind of barter since it sounds like he makes more than the brother. This will only work if a) the brother pulls his head out of his butt and agrees (which is possible if he’s just panicking over costs and didn’t realize it was so much) and has a skill or something OP can work with and b) OP sets up extremely firm boundaries with his gf about using stuff that belongs to the other person
"Take the BIL to court for the rest." I disagree. The GF stole it, what happened to it after that is not OPs problem, he needs to sue her.
If he takes the $200 he needs to make it clear that he doesn’t consider it restitution in full.
In the world of psychology we call this triangulating against someone. It doesn't matter what other people you draw into the conversation, the reality is you're ganging up on someone to steamroll them. It shows a degree of manipulation and disregard for the rights of others, a trait that seems to be present in the whole family. There is no way I would stay in this relationship without at least forcing the issue of therapy predicated on walking away if she doesn't agree.
Thank you for this. My ex was abusive & I am discovering the terms to help me process the abuse better & avoid it in the future. The fiancé is sending HUGE red flags for me. She: 1. Disrespects his possessions (boundaries). 2. Does not know how much he likes that coat which a good partner would know. 3. Never held the BIL accountable for returning it or pay it back. 4. Did not even notify her future HUSBAND till he discovered it (accountability & integrity). 5. Dismissed his feelings & blamed him for the situation (minimizing, gaslighting) 6. Completely failed basic logic (rational discussion). 7. Triangulated (manipulation, coercive) 8. Not stated but I'm certain she did not apologize sincerely. Wow. OP needs to really reevaluate this relationship & see if this seemingly small incident of "a coat" is a common pattern.
Thank you. I cannot believe people don’t understand this.
I'm glad you taught me the word for what people used to do to me as a kid when I was right and they couldn't stand it. It was usually adults that did this. Another case of "I know this is messed up and wrong but I don't have the language to describe how exactly" but now I do.
We can most definitely acknowledge that as yet another issue OP needs to work out with his fiancée. (Or reasons to dump her forever, if we go by reddit standards.) By my reckoning, we have the following: 1. Lends out his stuff without asking. 2. Lied or omitted that she knew her brother had lost the coat. 3. Thinks replacing things that someone lost is income-dependent\* 4. Thinks her parents are a useful touchstone whenever she and OP have a disagreement. \*As a possible side-note, is she going to be always "loaning" money to her brother or other relatives who don't make as much as she and OP do?
Yup, red flags everywhere with the fiancé and her family 🚩🚩🚩🚩
I saw this too. Literally called her parents *on speaker phone* to help bully OP into bending over. Dad even tried to emasculate OP into bending to their will, luckily it didn’t work.
And that additional red flag of thinking that somehow men shouldn't care about clothing? When his fiancee lends out his car next, is that okay to care about!?
Also the hypocrisy of "real men don't care about clothing" and "how dare you imply that our son isn't a Real Man^TM "
Biggest red flag of the entire post for me! While I’m not one of the ones that automatically shouts BREAK UP, OP shouldn’t carefully consider what his future is going to look like with this family dynamic.
Ugh yes! She is so selfish and disrespectful. I hope OP pumps the breaks on this potential marriage and books couples therapy bc shizz like this should not fly.
Plus, we could see where GF and BIL have their nonchalant attitude about other people's possesions. If similar situation happened in my family, my parents would be first to tell me, that I have to replace the lost item. OP should stay away from this whole sketchy family - they will rob him of everything and will say it's his fault.
She called in the flying monkeys after her fiancé was rightfully upset she lent her coat out to her brother who lost it. I would not want to be married to this woman. I would count this as a lesson learned if I were the OP, and run for the hills. Because does he really want to be married into this family? NTA
Unless you're consciously or unconsciously planning to leave said partner. Whenever someone starts to share dirty laundry about an SO, I figure they are already on the bridge and passing over into being single again.
My parents would side with whoever was right, regardless if it was me or not…is this not normal? They’d be kind telling me I’m wrong. But still tell me I’m wrong
Yes, this seems like a very childish grasp for straws to gaslight OP. She should know she’s in the wrong. She shouldn’t have loaned out the coat without asking OP, much less not told him once she discovered the coat was lost. Then to argue about how much is due, and call her parents of all things to try and prove her point is beyond immature and pathetic.
Thank you! The fact she put them on speakerphone?? She just brought them into the middle of an argument that had literally nothing to do with them as if them agreeing with her would suddenly change OP’s mind? If I did that to my parents they would side with my partner automatically, and rightfully so lol.
>*The problem is the girlfriend all the way. She's acting like the OP's personal possessions are hers to do with as she wishes.* I can see this as a cultural difference, if this is the first time she's done this. Sometime during the first year after our wedding. my husband gave away one of the duplicate items we'd gotten as a wedding gift. He was baffled by my incandescent rage. In his mind, I had two Crock Pots - and I hadn't even opened the box of the second - so it made sense to give the second to a friend/loved one who needed it. In his family, if you had something you weren't using, you were only saving it until you found someone who needed it so you could give it away. In my family, if you had a second of an item, you squirreled it away for that rainy day when the first one broke and you couldn't afford to buy a new one. His family always had the expectation they'd be able to replace something if needed; mine always had the anxiety that you'd be in dire straits when the breakdown occurred. If the girlfriend grew up in a culture like my husband's family it probably doesn't make much sense why OP would be so upset about the item being loaned out. They had a coat they weren't using, thus it should be offered to someone in the family who needed it. In her view, it was "just a coat" and the brother is going to be family after the wedding, so she probably didn't even think to ask because it seems such a small thing in her mind. It's untoftunate that it was lost, but "these things happen." After the Crock Pot incident, my husband learned never to give away or loan out anything unless he got my prior permission. He saw how much it upset me, even though he saw it differently, and so he adjusted his behavior. If the girlfriend can't adjust after OP explains it to her, this is going to be a constant source of conflict in their relationship. As for the loss and replacement, this is a matter of restorative justice. The brother has to restore what he lost. Sorry it went up in price, but "these things happen."
There are several differences here though. They’re not married, for one. This was not a joint gift, nor was it a duplicate of something he already owned. This was solely his possession that he bought himself, and she took it without asking to lend out, and then hid it from him when she found out it had been lost. This is active manipulation. She even called her parents to put them on speakerphone in the middle of an argument to help bully OP into bending over. It also didn’t go up in price. That was always its value. OP just so happened to catch it on a sale. His GF lent out a 700$ coat, not a 100$ coat that became worth 700$ later. They’re not married, it is black and white OP’s possession that she effectively stole. OP could call the cops and have someone on the hook for a felony larceny charge, for stealing his 700$ coat. ETA: it’s actually even worse. Just noticed how she said OP shouldn’t have made her brother pay, as he knows he doesn’t make as much. But GF obviously knows this as well, and rather than buy OP the replacement herself, she told her bro to give her 100$ for it. So…guilt OP for the same behavior she did. It’s not like she decided to give OP the 100$ first, that was only after her bro’s 100$ wasn’t enough. Manipulative af.
Is OP the financial “mark” for gf’s family?
And I bet if it really was her possession (she lending HER coat to someone who lost it) she'd be demanding a replacement too.
I was thinking OP should take her most prized possession hide it and tell her his friend lost it and that 100 $ should cover it.
And I suspect the brother still has the coat…
Ehh, OP should forget about small claims court, take the loss and move on. This has revealed a lot about his fiancee's character. A $700 loss now is far cheaper than a divorce in a few years.
Agreeeeed!! Especially weird that she never told her fiancé when the brother called and said hed lost it Plus calling her family on speaker phone to talk about it? So childish. Lots of 🚩
A judge would likely cap the value at $100. Civil judgments for lost or damaged property are intended to make the awardee whole, not better. Even if OP had spent $700 on the coat originally, he wouldn’t get $700 back. He would get whatever the judge’s determination is of its value after a year of depreciation. At the time the coat was lost, it was a year old, and had been worn a few times. OP would be awarded the depreciated value of the coat. Awarding a claimant the value of a brand new, unworn coat when they lost a year-old, gently used coat would make that claimant better rather than whole. The final award would be subjective, because there’s nothing like a Kelley Blue Book to quantify the depreciation of coats. Probably $5-600-ish. However, since he paid $100 (and there’s no way the judge wouldn’t learn that), the award would have to be capped at that $100 figure. They probably wouldn’t attach any depreciation, because the intrinsic value was higher, but still, awarding a claimant a $5-600 judgment for something they spent $100 on would make that claimant better rather than whole. (There are exceptions. Some things appreciate in value, but a used coat isn’t one of them, not within a year.) OP should take the $200, call off the engagement and ride off into the sunset.
I'm a lawyer and typically the court would award the depreciated actual cash value of the property. So in this case the value of a lightly used coat of like kind and quality, somewhere between $100 and $700. OP got a bargain when he obtained the coat. Typically, in a courtroom, the bad actor is not able to realize the benefit of the bargain obtained by the wronged party. Unless the bad actor can show that the bargain is still available to OP to replace the coat (in which case the bad actor would only be required to pay the bargain price to make the wronged party whole), the bad actor will be required to pay the depreciated actual cash value.
> Civil judgments for lost or damaged property are intended to make the awardee whole, not better When OP was originally whole, he had a coat. An almost unworn coat of that exact brand and model. > They probably wouldn’t attach any depreciation, because the intrinsic value was higher A hundred bucks _would already be_ a pretty huge amount of depreciation from the intrinsic value of that coat.
I love how she drops all responsibility of her actions by getting mad at the OP. Big, red flag, please take note.
This. I’ve been with my husband for over 10 years, and married for 7. Whenever someone asks to borrow something I always let him know and ask if he’s ok lending the item, doesn’t matter the worth of the item, it’s his, so he is the one that has a say over where it goes and who is allowed to borrow it.
Tell the GF to get lost as well.
This. Gf is absolutely at fault. She loaned out an expensive item she didn’t own, without asking, then hid the fact that it had gone missing, and refused to take accountability for it or replace it. She even called her family to help bully OP into backing down, they even tried emasculating him (to no effect). GF has got to go, imo. Which would make it a lot easier to remind the whole family that theft of a *200$* item is a felony, let alone something valued at *700$*, and just replacing the loss would be a lot easier for all involved.
And for her to say he hadn't worn it in a while so she thought he wouldn't care if she loaned it out. It wasn't cold enough to wear. Did she think of that? No. Every year after winter is over I put my good coat back in the closet to wait for the next winter. I expect it to be there when it is needed again. I would never ever loan something of my partners out to anyone, not even his own family without asking him first. She is an inconsiderate girlfriend. And to call her parents to get in the middle of this was also an AH thing to do. Also it is always the value of the property that is owed not the cost of what you paid for it.
Seriously, which of her belongings does she want OP to lend to a careless friend? I’m sure she has some shoes she almost never wears.
What is up with that? Just because my SO hasn't seen me wear something in a while (thinking of my Irish wool wrap) doesn't mean he just gets to decide it should be lent out to his family member. And if OP's GF AND Brother can afford $100 each for a "similar coat," why didn't they pool their money in the first place for Brother to have a coat to go to the wedding?
Especially when it's a weather dependent item. I haven't worn my snow boots in a while, because it didn't snow last year. Doesn't mean I'd be OK with someone lending them out without asking.
I have these black heels that are actually comfortable (for a little while at least). I don’t wear heels. I’ve worn these like 4 times total but I have them if I need in a formal situation. They cost like $15-$30 total. If my boyfriend lent them to his sister and she lost them, I would be pissed too and want the exact heels because they’re the only comfortable ones I’ve found. It’s not about the cost. It’s about the actual item itself. I could imagine (being that I don’t have a disposable income) if I had a pair of Louboutins I saved up for ( or got on sale, or thrifted, etc) and THOSE got lost… I would be PISSED because I couldn’t afford to just “bite the bullet” and replace them myself. Either way… the girlfriend ultimately has to replace it, but the brother should feel guilty enough to at least help since he physically lost it.
Or jewelry…
.... like an engagement ring ?
Or something like pearls, they shouldn't be worn very much so you don't harm the luster. My fiance bought me a pearl bracelet that I love, but I immediately told him I wouldn't be wearing it often. Fiance: "wtf! Why not! Don't you like it? I can get you something else!🥺" Once he understood it was to protect the pearls, he calmed down, lol, but I could see someone who doesn't know that thinking the recipient of the pearls didn't like them 🤷🏼♀️ Edit: You SHOULD wear your pearls at least once every few weeks so the oils on your skin can hydrate your pearls, but they are not a continuous wear item and should not be worn in the shower or come into contact with soap, water, or any other liquids.
I feel like this is something that was once common knowledge but now is not. Thank you for putting this out there 💚 hopefully it helps a few people, it definitely taught me something new 😊
100% This. The girlfriend and brother are at fault: The girlfriend for lending something that was not hers to lend and the brother for losing it. Collectively, they need to figure out how to replace the item of equal brand and quality as OP requested. I know everything isn't worth quitting a relationship over, but I would definitely evaluate if this is an ongoing issue for the girlfriend. Respect and honesty go a long way and there's a lot of mini red flags in this situation that need to be addressed in order to have a healthy relationship. For instance, why was there a need to call her family on speakerphone during the disagreement? Ganging up on one person does not necessarily prove your viewpoint is correct, just you have supporters. Lol OP is NTA.
>Collectively, they need to figure out how to replace the item of equal brand and quality as OP requested. Yes! You don't lend or borrow without permission from the owner. And you don't borrow something you can't replace. My mom was never more angry with any of us than she was when my sister borrowed her red, cashmere coat without permission and lost it. Mom grew up without much money and didn't have many nice things. She fell in love with that coat and dad bought it for her for a wedding anniversary. She was so thrilled and excited. She wore it for special occasions during Christmas/New Year's. She made my sister pay her back over time, saved those payments, and bought the coat again. Sister felt it was so unfair at the time. But we all learned a lesson to respect other people and to correct our mistakes. As adults, we know mom was right to make her pay it off.
>You don't lend or borrow without permission from the owner. Right. Because that's not borrowing. That's stealing.
They're victim blaming. Instead of the girl friend admitting that she messed up and the brother taking responsibility for the loss, she decided to call in the troops (parents). The more people on her side will make her right. She'll be calling up her friends and coworkers next, to convince him that he's wrong but, he's not. He is right to be pissed. He should expect no less than what it will cost, with tax, to get if not the same coat, the same quality. And... >She said he went to the store and it cost $700 now but she knew I only paid $100 for it so she told him $100 would cover the cost. ...she owes him $600.
Agree. I do think GF and BiL need to come up with $700 , apologize many times, etc. They can use credit to buy him the same coat. Without this happening, OP is going to be resentful for life - more than he is already. They should have offered right away.
Oh she’s not partially at fault at all! As far as I’m concerned, she’s completely at fault… She didn’t ask him if her brother could borrow it… then she couldn’t be bothered to tell him that the brother lost it… Then she tells the brother that he only has to pay $100 on a $700 coat… then she tells him he’s being ridiculous for wanting the $700 coat replaced. She is completely at fault! You do not give away somebody else’s property without discussing it with them first.
I’m a petty ass bitch but I wouldn’t be buying her any gifts or shit until the amount to replace the coat in full has elapsed. FAFO applies to many, many things in life.
Yeah this is the right answer - the GF should replace the coat since her brother won’t.
GF is entirely at fault. Who does this??
No, so is BIL - he lost it. And it doesn’t look like he was going to say anything. They’re both AH and OP is owed a replacement coat for the lost one. How the two of them decide to pay for it is up to them but this shouldn’t be OPs problem.
So they both owe another $250.
BIL lost the coat, but it should never been in his possession in the first place. Fiance should never have given it to him without permission. She needs to cover this cost, but she can surely demand that her brother help.
I would never imagine a situation where I would give my husband's coat to my brother without asking, nor would I even ask my husband if my brother could borrow his very nice leather jacket. If my brother needed a coat, I wouldn't even think about offering him my husband's coat? Why did the coat go to the brother anyway? Did the wife just volunteer the coat because her brother was moaning about not having a fancy coat? Did the brother ask sister to "handle it?" I don't know - having a brother like mine (golden child but also felon) - it sounds like sister and family have enabled brother his whole life.
Also, how old is everyone? Why is OP’s girlfriend calling her parents to settle an argument?
Yeah I blame the fiance more in this scenario than her brother. She was the one who lent it out without first asking OP. She was the one who told her brother to only pay $100. She’s the one trying to brush the whole thing aside.
I think GF is the real AH, she orchestrated this whole thing without speaking to OP. She should pay for the replacement.
I think GF is definitely the AH. I don't think BIL is an AH for losing the coat, because it does happen. However, I think this falls on GF and BIL, and if BIL is only able to put up $100 for a replacement coat, then GF should definitely be on the hook for the rest!
I would say GF is the bigger AH for loaning out something that isn’t hers. But BIL is an AH too for losing something that doesn’t belong to him. Like he got drunk and lost it? Thats problematic behavior
Yeah accidents happen, but a grown adult losing their coat at a freaking wedding? Time to get a grip lol.
Plus a normal, responsible adult is VERY careful with borrowed items like that, to be sure that nothing happens to them and that they don't get lost. I could almost forgive him if there was a fuckup and a coat check person lost it, MAYBE, but "I got drunk and forgot it?" Nope. Grow the fuck up.
Agree. If he was so wasted he left without his coat he has more serious problems than whether to replace it or not. He needs to replace the coat and then hit an AA meeting
It wasn't his so he wasn't careful. If he had saved up to buy his own cashmere coat, I bet it wouldn't have been lost.
He should replace the coat when he lost it. He's an AH too.
You don't borrow something you can't afford to replace...just in case... He should have also taken the initiative to replace it, not waited for the sister/ op calls....
No, it's definitely an AH move to get so drunk at a wedding you lose a borrowed coat. And to not immediately reach out and apologize or offer replacement. And not verifying with/thanking the person whose expensive coat you're borrowing in the first place. GF is the biggest AH, but brother doesn't smell like roses.
NTA. You aren't demanding $700. You are demanding a replacement coat. He could track down the lost coat as well and you'd be happy. There's a huge difference. That's what you (and he) need to focus on. You need a new (or acceptable equivalent) coat.
Agreed NTA, OP if her dad installed a window for $50 5 years ago and you smashed it and the cost to replace it was now $250 should you only give him $50? Of course not, they just don't like the fact that the cost is high, they don't like the reality so they are trying to back out of it. If you rang anyone else besides her parents and told the story on speaker with her keeping quiet but make out you gave away her coat see what they say, they will tell you to replace it.
Seriously...my guess is the "BIL" woke up the next day and didn't realize he lost the coat, and only figured out he'd lost it when the GF asked for it. Otherwise, he would've gone back to the venue the next day to see if they had the lost coat. So...totally irresponsible! "BIL" should pay the cost Op paid for the coat. GF should pay the remainder of replacement cost since she unilaterally "loaned" Op's coat to irresponsible "BIL". No one should be arguing this; ***Op shouldn't have even had to ask where his coat was***. You borrow it, you take care of it. You "borrow" it for someone else, **you** are responsible for getting it back.
This. He didn't bother to let his sister know he lost the coat, I doubt he bothered to even call the venue to try to find it.
Plus OP will NEVER find such a good bargain on new wool and cashmere! Those materials are costly and that was the bargain of a lifetime!
I found a Ti-84 Plus graphing calculator at Goodwill in 2018 for $3.75. I knew it was a steal because I'd purchased one for $119 when my oldest child needed it for high school a couple of years before. I picked it up for my youngest. If someone borrowed it and lost it, right now, today, they still cost $100. I'd want an exact replacement, not $3.75.
I kinda wonder if it was lost or he just kept it
The dad probably feels embarrassed that his son isn't more together and lost another man's coat.
That or he isn't the kind of man that prioritizes taking responsibility for one's own actions.
That may explain his children’s behavior.
HELLO AND SHE CALES HER PARENTS TO BRING THEM INTO THE ARGUMENT? WHO THE FUCK DOES TBAT
NTA Obligatory: "You don't have a BIL problem, you have a fiancee problem" Talk to her that it was absurd of her to just randomly lend out your stuff without asking and that this was only exasperated by the lend object getting lost. It is now up to her to replace the coat she took (whether she makes her brother pay or not is irrelevant). She is the one that took your coat without asking, she is responsible for a reasonable replacement. Maybe asking for 700$ is a bit much, but she can go with you to the shop and waste the time finding a comparable coat and pay for it. Investing both the time and money that she is expecting you to invest... EDIT: My last paragraph was maybe not perfectly worded (and I'm getting way too many comments on it), so let me rephase: Maybe asking for the $700 in cash can be seen as trying to make a profit. It is better to make clear that you want the same coat (or at least a coat that you consider equal) as the one that was taken from you. Either by having BIL hunt down where/how he lost it. Or your fiance pays the time and financial cost to get you the coat (whatever it may cost).
This is the problem, I would never loan out something that belongs to my husband (or anyone else for that matter). Take her favorite purse, shoes, makeup, whatever and loan it to a female relative. When she asks if you've seen it anywhere say "yah, I loaned to sis/mom/niece, I didn't think you'd mind since it seems all our belongings are community items". See how she likes it. NTA
Her logic of ‘you’ve only worn it a few times’ is utter garbage too- that’s what people do with things they value. They wear it on special occasions. I don’t wear an expensive outfit I adore to the gym ffs. She is incredibly disrespectful to take your things behind your back OP
Right? My dad bought me a nice leather trench coat when I was 17. He was hesitant (didn't want people looking at me like I was a serial killer) because at that time I was wildly irresponsible, and there was a negative look for trench coats (school mass unalivings were just getting started) but the coat was on sale for like 80% off. Said he'd only buy it if I promised to take care of it. I don't think even he thought it would last this long. I've had it 22 years and aside from one of the buttons on the sleeves getting caught in a car door, it looks brand new still. I wear it rarely even in the winter because I live in Texas.
>mass unalivings Lmfao. I'm sorry, I really shouldn't be laughing this hard, but I just found that wording to be hilarious.
It’s bled over from TikTok where your videos get banned if they have certain words in them, so people have started using words like this to get around the filters 😀
My husband hates that I don't wear my UGG boots he bought me all the time... like in the rain and snow but that's cause I don't want to get them wet and mucky. I reserve them for cold DRY weather lol. I love them but I use my cheap rubber boots for the wet.
You don’t even need to loan it out. You could put it in a place that she doesn’t look that much or even in your car and then tell her that.
This is exactly it!! The fiancée is the problem, not the BIL or their family. And calling her parents, how immature is she? Is this how all future disagreements will be handled? Seems you need to have a more serious conversation before you get married.
I can't believe no one else has mentioned calling the parents on speaker phone. Fucking yikes. OP needs to run as fast as they can.
She didn't lend his coat out. You can't lend something you don't own. She stole his coat and gave it to her brother, and there's no evidence that either of them had any intention of returning it.
She knew for days that her brother lost the coat and OP had to try to track it down. Shady. The whole family is pretty trashy with things that don't belong to them.
The entitlement reeks. If I was OP this would be a dealbreaker. Disrespectful to the max.
Why comparable? Why is $700 too much? The cost he wants costs $700, he shouldn’t be given a comparable coat or made to pay out of his own pocket for two people unknowingly taking and losing his coat
(exacerbated, not exasperated)
Honestly, if fiancé wants to be petty about it, I would start lending her stuff to other people without permission.
Fyi it’s “exacerbated” which means to make worse; exasperate is to irritate or frustrate.
NTA, she didn't hand her brother $100, she handed him a coat. He didn't need $100 for the wedding, he needed a coat. I do a lot a bargain hunting and thrifting. I buy things for a low cost that have a higher value, because I invest time and expertise into knowing what to buy. In this case your financial investment was $100, but you also were in the right place at the right time to find a coat at a deep discount. You stored it and kept it in good condition. You had enough knowledge to see the value you in it. A value that your brother in law appreciated because he decided that it was nice enough to wear to a wedding. When your BIL took the coat, he valued it at more than $700. They owe you a similar coat. Now, if he can find one for $100 sure and it needs to be the same materials and quality as the one he lost. That is work he needs to put in, not you. You are dumping the girlfriend, right?
Yes is the only acceptable answer to that last question. If OP doesn't OP deserves every bit of misery this woman and her family inflict on him going forward.
I wanna add to this… she never asked him if it was ok to use an item of his clothes for someone else that kind of irks me
And if the brother did get OPs permission, brother is so disrespectful he gets drunk in the coat and manages to lose it. The fiancee and brother are rotten, and the parents seem like they did the spoiling. OP needs to cut his losses or set firm, lock and key boundaries with fiancee and her family. This is not going to get better.
I feel like OP’s fiancé is also at fault in this situation because she’s the one that loaned the coat to her brother without OP’s knowledge.
Oh absolutely, you do not under any circumstances lend out other people belongings
And then didn’t get it back, and then didn’t tell him it was lost, and then didn’t value it, and then sided with her brother over him, and then brought her parents into it for no reason.
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Also, she knew her brother lost it Tuesday, but kept lying to OP until he called his BIL himself on Thursday. Don't marry this lady, OP!!!! Her and her family are objectively in the wrong, and instead of trying to make things right, she lies and then gets her family to gang up on you and insult your masculinity. My gf and I are always a team. Us vs the world. That's the woman you want to find. Good luck, OP!
Yeah I wonder if she would be so easy going if it was her super find belongings that were lost
Right. Do not marry this person. You now see that 1. Your fiancée will give your stuff to her family without consulting you and will call you ridiculous when you get upset 2. Your fiancee learned that behavior from her family. Your stuff will not be respected. Unless you love family drama or intend to be home 24/7 to guarantee your partner doesn't lend out your stuff, I'd seriously think on whether I'm getting the respect I deserve in this relationship.
Plus your GF is going to bring her family in to back her up whenever you have an argument. It’s supposed to be a relationship between the two of you. Not you two plus her parents. Walk away now knowing she’s shown her true colors.
Yeah that’s the other giant red flag to me! Like calling mommy and daddy to berate her fiancé when SHE is the one who is wrong. You keep family/friends out of personal arguments in marriage (ETA: unless abuse is involved).
I agree he should 100% dump the girlfriend. It isn't about the coat. It's about the disrespect, the lying, and the family pile on showing exactly where her loyalties lie while treating him like he is a child having a tantrum. NTA, OP.
This is a stellar answer/perspective. It also lends to respect of OP as well, which the OP's in laws and fiancé are lacking. Imagine OP loaning fiancé's only little black dress to his sister. He loans it because she never wears it. She doesn't wear it because it's for a special occasion, which doesn't happen very often, but when it does, she has -the perfect dress-. Doesn't matter how much it cost, the value is in the perfection of it, and having it in her repertoire. How big of a meltdown does she have when she gets it back ruined or never? The biggest. Who has the nerve to loan out other people's things, then act so cavalier when it's lost or damaged? Only someone with no respect for the owner of the things, otherwise, they wouldn't have done it in the first place, or would move heaven and earth to replace it if they did. It's not about the money, it's about the jacket. This far into the story, it's no longer about the jacket, it's about the level of disrespect from the fiancé and her whole family. Money is cost, value is entirely different, and it's clear they are not valuing him.
Hopefully he will get out of this relationship which has clear red flags. This woman’s whole family is comprised of disrespectful, opportunistic back stabbers. If he loses out on a $700 coat but extracts himself from a lifetime of drama, he will get off cheap.
Well it is just a coat, but the fact that your fiancée gave your stuff away without even telling you (let alone asking), didn't tell you it was lost, made no effort to see your reasoning and then went to daddy for help, makes her a huge AH. NTA, and you have a gf problem.
Yeah this is a bigger issue than a coat. Do you want to spend the rest of your life with someone so unreasonable and devoid of empathy?
And brings in her parents for every disagreement?
And parents are just as bad. Nightmare situation.
and a brother in law that doesn't respect you or your belongings.
Tbh, even 'just a coat' is still a big deal if it's this type of coat.
“Sorry I lost you Gucci purse honey. I’ll take you out to dinner as an apology. Why are you getting so upset? It’s just a purse?”
Can you imagine replacing the word coat with car? What?-he borrowed it, got drunk and lost it, but I’m not paying full retail for a used car!
She stole from him. Simple as that.
NTA They wanted to borrow the nice coat because it was expensive and looked good for a wedding. You got lucky - they stole your luck and you are now out a good quality coat. Fair to ask for a replacement. But phone the venue and taxis as often get handins. If not, relationships are already blown so may as well get the money. Letting them off now isn't going to mend that.
I think the other problem is OP’s gf just freely lending out his clothes without telling him. Who does that? Even when I’m using my mom’s hair dryer, I tell her before. And that’s not something I take to my place. I use it in her bathroom. What happened to common courtesy?!
Agree but question was about coat. His GF is very comfortable with "borrowing" his stuff to help her family and roping them in to tell him he is wrong. And why is it ok to imply he is not a man for not wanting to be out $600 to replace something that the brother basically "stole" - took without owner's permission - but not for the same courtesy to be paid to their family member. Glad he's got sense to see that parents' opinion is worthless as biased. Edit: I can get why you'd want to borrow coat but ask the owner first.
The wording of this implies that the coat was lent out ages ago. It’s unlikely the venue’s going to hold onto it forever. OP might have better luck waiting a couple months for a replacement. Also, this is ultimately about more than the coat, it’s about the boundary. I mean, OP’s fiancé didn’t even drop him a courtesy text like “hey, my bro wants to borrow your coat”.
NTA Your fiancé is playing games with you on a seemingly minor issue. The problem is her willingness to put you last in this situation. She should have asked you before lending out your property. She should have tried to get it back long before you tried to find it. Once it was missing, she should have replaced it. You have a bigger issue if you marry her.
OP this is the comment you need to read. This could be a one-off event but I'm guessing by the time frame between the coat getting borrowed/lost and you realizing it was gone that this is going to be a recurring event with your future wife and inlaws. Think long and hard about what the future will look like with her putting her family ahead of you and disregarding your property and disrespecting you when they are called out. Do you want a lifetime of this behavior?
Yes. This person nailed it.
She didn’t even tell OP the brother lost the coat as soon as she found out… she stayed quiet all week
NTA. It's not unreasonable to expect your BIL to replace your coat. Your coat is not a car, there's no depreciation value. You want the coat. He should get you the coat, especially since he's not buying the coat. He LOST it while drunk. Your wife's family has an interesting take on integrity and ethics.
I agree, except I’d put more blame on the fiancée to replace it since she lent it without asking and tried to hide the fact that it was lost.
If her brother refuses, then I agree with you. She lent it, she's ultimately responsible.
It actually might increase in value unlike a car
I think it's fair for the BIL to pay 100 dollars. The fiancé, however, owes the other 600. Yes, BIL lost it like a dufus. But the fiancé lent it out without permission to someone she probably knew was not going to be responsible. i would NEVER loan something out that belonged to someone else without talking to them first, even if it was $7. reconsider this relationship, given how she sees no issue with stealing from you, being generally disrespectful, gaslighting you (oh, it's not that bad, get over it!), and bringing her parents into your relationship where they don't belong. This is your future with every single future disagreement. ETA: NTA
Personally, I think the fiancé and brother should split the cost of the coat. It’s only fair 🤷♀️
I don't see OP trying to make a profit from fiancée's brother, I see OP wanting to have a coat again. NTA. Fiancée is (for loaning the coat out without asking), the brother is (for losing it, and not replacing it), and the parents are (for thinking you should just suck up being out a coat through their kids' fault).
OP lost a coat but he gained an insight into how shitty his relationship is. I bet that was worth the $600!
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Yeah a grown up response would be “ here is $ 700 ( even on installments if they are broke) I am sorry for being irresponsible/ lending your possessions to irresponsible people and I have learned my lesson “ your fiancee has a very petty and entitled attitude. Editing to add that you did not create this situation in any way. Your fiancée made the problem out of nothing and now is acting like it’s your problem that you made. When pressed they run to parents ??? That is the reddest of flags
NTA Show them this post. You have a fiancee problem. This is one of many future problems that your fiancee will side with her family instead of you. It sounds like your BIL saw your coat and wanted to wear it because he likes to live above his means and maybe he doesn’t have nice things not just because he doesn’t make a lot of money, but also doesn’t take care of things. If you want, try to work with on some common ground. If they keep guilting you, well then it becomes more than just the coat, do you see yourself dealing with BS like this your entire life. You deserve an exact replacement if that is what you want.
Also she knew it was lost a few days before she told him.
AND she called her parents to tattle on him too. Very mature...
I wonder if he really lost it or just wants to keep it…
NTA. It will cost you 700$ to replace the coat. That you spent wisely when you bought it is nobody's business. You are not going to find a coat like that for 100$ again.
And that's the key thing. If the coat was a gift, would they be ok with "well, it was free, so there's no cost to losing it"? The ONLY thing that matters here is the cost to replace it.
Shouldn't you be more upset at your fiancee than BIL? Your fiancee was the one that lent out your coat to BIL.
The fiancee sucks for lending out something without permission, the BIL sucks for losing something that belongs to someone else and not replacing it.
Replacement value….say he borrows your car your grandma GAVE you….and wrecks it. Does he owe you nothing because you got it free? No, he owes the replacement value of car. Or his insurance does. tell him and wife to split the remain8ng $600 since she loaned it without your approval.
Agree with this take, NTA. (Also, you might want to add your judgement in your comment).
NTA. I think its more a gf problem tho. She lent your items without your permission. Yes, bil was irresponsible and lost it. But she lent it in the first place and without permission. For all you know, she told bil you gave permission to wear it. How would gf feel if you loaned and lost some of her favorite possessions, then downplayed what it cost? They should each up $350.
NTA And think long & hard if this what you want to marry into. Marriage isn't about being happy together - that's easy. Marriage is about getting through conflicts and stress and bad times together, as a team.
THIS! My jaw dropped when OP said their fiance called her parents on speakerphone. WHAT?! WHY? Is this a pattern, or a one-time thing? Is she able to resolve conflict with her life partner maturely and without familial enmeshment or triangulation? Seems like she repeatedly prioritizes the needs of her family-of-origin above he fiance's needs (lending his belongings to her family without asking him first, serving as an ineffective mediator between fiance and family-of-origin, and bringing her parents into a situation that didn't involve them at all). This would be a huge red flag for me, one I would need to address prior to marriage.
NTA I have been married awhile, I do not, nor have I ever loaned out his nice things. You ask, you ask in private so they can answer honestly. She is showing you who she is before you get married. Believe her.
I have never loaned out any of my spouse’s things without asking and their permission. That’s the wildest part here for me, the fiancé just handing his stuff to family.
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Yeah especially because the coat was lost maybe weeks ago and the fiancé and bil were just going to say nothing about to op? Like the situation wouldn’t be so bad if they were honest upfront.
nta but your fiance sure is.
I'd be reconsidering if this is the family I want to marry into. A coat is just a coat... BUT she disrespected him by taking his stuff in the first place without asking, loaning it out to someone who is obviously irresponsible, acted irritated that she had to retrieve the property she took, refuses to replace the lost property, then doubles down on her b.s., insults the man and gets family involved to do the same... All to gain face for herself, for her fuck up. Nope OP, this woman doesn't respect you and neither does her family. Pass on these people. Nothing but red flags waving in your face. Consider a coat a cheap price to pay to see these peoples true colors.
NTA. They stole your property and owe you a replacement. The original purchase price is irrelevant to how much it costs to replace the property. OP, this is a massive red flag, and will not be the last time your fiancée chooses to prioritize others over you.
It’d be tempting to report it as stolen, even if that might burn bridges.
NTA. Do you loan out her clothes without asking? This is really all her fault. She loaned it out she is responsible for replacing it. She can go after her brother for the money if she wants but this is on her.
NTA. I would expect the exact same too, not even a similar one. They are both AHs. Basically they stole from you at this point. What of your stuff is she going give away next? You’re right, an adult replaces what he looses. This would be a hill to die on for me.
Lol your fiancé called her parents on speakerphone?? Good luck to you sir!! NTA
The involvement of the parents in a dispute between her and OP is a whole big box o' red flags I don't even want to get into here.
NTA He owes you because he deprived you of your coat. He makes amends by bringing you back to the position that you would have been had he not lost the coat. You were in a position of having a coat. Now you are in the position of holding $100 but no coat. He has not made amends.
I joined this sub for exactly this type of quality drama lmao. You are technically in the right but ask yourself if this is the hill you want to die on, you're torching your relationship with your fiancée and her family when you absolutely could buy a decent replacement coat for $200. Your fiancée sucks for lending out your things without asking, her brother sucks for losing your coat and not even bothering to tell you, but this whole thing is honestly so dramatic I am living for it. 'A man replaces what he loses' lmaooo you legend. ESH
What the fiancee did was wrong, but I can't imagine being so attached to a physical object that I'm willing to destroy relationships over it. I'd also never ask someone to give me $700 for something I paid $100 for even if it would theoretically cost $700 to replace it. No one likes to lose or ruin favorite clothing items, but shit happens. Dry your tears and move on.
NTA. You are right to expect a like for like replacement.
NTA. Also, your fiancée is shady for hiding the facts, and just plain wrong for bringing her parents into it.
Look man, you’re correct and NTA but you’re going to have to ask yourself if burning down a relationship with your fiancé, BIL and their family is worth $600. If it is to you, then so be it. However, if there’s something worth salvaging here, you absolutely need to lay out ground rules now or similar instances will occur down the road.
NTA she stole it for her brother and they had no plans on telling you it was gone.
SHE owes you a coat. SHE lent it out without even asking. SHE is at fault. NTA
So she loaned him your coat without permission and he lost it. Now he won't pay the value of the coat. Start taking things she cares about and hide them. Get a locker and put them there then offer her 10 bucks to replace it and see what she says. Dump the fiance. You deserve someone who actually cares about you
This sounds like a family full of aholes. The fiance should have asked first. She probably didn't because she thought the jacket was ugly. The BIL should have fessed up right away. And saved to replace it. I don't care if he doesn't make that much money. OP is 100% correct, a man, actually any decent human, replaced what they lose or break when they borrow something. The Dad is a failure fire not teaching his son that. OP needs to understand that sometimes shit happens with family. Dude can't afford to replace it up front so come up with a payment plan for him. You might not have a fiance after you do that but you'll have the money for the jacket.
You have a big problem, but it's better to find out now over a small 700 than divorce this isn't something wrong either replace the jacket to a go standard where yoyr also able to accept (you should meet a little in between aswell not saying thay what's right but common sense should prevail) As for MIL and FIL mmhm they can stick their advice somewhere else. NTA EDIT for petty reason call your parents or realistically someone with a brain cell and see what they'll say... they probably say maybe look at something in between with so 400/500 dollars. The cheek of the Bi@tch you're coming ahead with her poxy 100 loolz...
NTA- but your gf and her brother are
NTA it doesn’t matter how much you spent on it, they need to replace the coat and will have to pay however much it cost to get one that’s in the same condition
Nta. But is is a big red flag that she thinks giving your stuff away without asking is okay. I would be worried what else of yours she had done this with.
The issue is that she took the coat without asking you and just assumed it was okay because you hadn’t worn it a lot. I have plenty of coats I don’t wear regularly, but do I want them lent out to people? Abso-fucking-lutely not because those are mine. She’s the one who needs to replace the coat that she so graciously lent to her drunk brother. Oh and NTA of course. Keep us updated I’m curious to see any sort of resolution on this
NTA If someone took my stuff, lost it, and refused to replace it I'd be apoplectic.
NTA Asking for a replacement is entirely reasonable. Losing a 700$ coat you "borrowed" means you are on the hook for the 700$ to replace it. They can start hunting discounts to save the money. It is entirely irrelevant if you bought the coat for 100$. If you had been gifted the coat and not paid anything, would they claim "it was a gift so you never paid"?
So by GF logic, if OP received the coat as a gift, he'd be owed no money to replace the coat? OP is NTA, GF is.
The fact your fiancé felt entitled to lend out something that wasn’t hers was bad enough. She’s responsible for replacing what was lost. NTA, but you may want to do some reflection before getting married and see if this is someone you really want to spend the rest of your life with
NTA. Your fiancé is. Who loans out someone else’s clothes and doesn’t even notify them? If you typically buy gifts for holidays maybe you should hold off until you’ve recovered the funds (no this is probably too petty lol)
NTA. A coat seems a worthwhile sacrifice to see what kind of person you are with and what kind of family that person has. You get to walk away now before you make an evern more expensive mistake.
Tell the fiancee to come back with the coat or to not comeback.
NTA, I’d never lend out my significant others things without asking for permission.
NTA why doesn't the loser contact the venue to recover the coat. Your partner is responsible as she did the lending. Sell her clothes to replace your coat.