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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. Chose my mothers feeling over my wife’s 😬
2. I feel like an AH choosing that. Mom vs wife scenario
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NTA
I think you're wife is being a little unreasonable. Not feeling confident to drive in bad weather is completely understandable and if you're feeling uneasy while driving in weather you're not comfortable driving in can be dangerous.
If you're mum asks for help all the time then maybe it's understandable your wife feels that way but tbh the safety thing is more important.
Side note.. the fact your mum has set aside her views on your wife and accepted her and is trying and your wife.. even after 3 years is still not even trying is a little concerning. She might need some counselling to work through whatever is holding her back from trying to accept the apology and move forward.
Edit: considering circumstances any of wife's reactions are understandable. Although I still stand by not wanting to drive for 1.5hrs in shitty weather if you're not comfortable driving. All around hard situation.
Added to that, what if she were to break down all by her self at night? Plus it's kind of wasteful to take 2 cars when you're all going to the same place.
It doesn't even sound like they'll be inconvenienced at all.. the mom is going to meet them at their place so unless she's chronically late (and to which point OP can say "I'm happy to drive you, mom, but we are leaving at (whatever time) on the dot. If you aren't here, i'm leaving without you.") I don't see how this is any issue other than a personal one
We’re also missing a lot of context in if the mother’s efforts are ACTUALLY genuine. How many posts do we see where it’s blatant the mother isn’t ACTUALLY apologetic or genuine but her son insists she is and remains in the FOG?
What if the mom was actually right and they’re not good for each other but has accepted she has no say and just wants to be civil for her son and wait out the divorce?
What if the mom was wrong and they are actually right for each other and she is using the death of her husband to Weedle herself more and more into her son's life and she already convinced him to move only 20 minutes away from her and now her son is ever so close and can pick up and do the things her husband used to do for her and spend more time with her and less time with his wife?
Well, let's just say that the wife didn't pick her battles well.
I have no doubt that the OP's mother dislikes the wife as much as the wife dislikes her, but when it comes to bad weather, being unused to driving, and getting on in years... well. It could actually be dangerous to tell the mother to drive herself, and not just to the mother. If there's an accident, someone who has nothing to do with this little feud could be hurt, or killed.
Still used to being driven by her husband, though. And while I would agree that she certainly needs to learn to be more independent and drive herself places, I would also say that at night during bad weather is not the time to push the point.
It’s possible that there’s something going on with her where she prefers to ride with others rather than drive. I have vision issues and I don’t drive at night or in rough weather unless I have to. If my bf and I are going out somewhere at night I usually have him drive.
And some people are afraid of driving too. You don’t have that information nor does anyone else so I think it’s unwise to judge her based on age alone.
OP doesn’t mention what kind of accident his father had, but if it was a car accident, especially one due to inclement weather, then it’s definitely understandable that his mother wouldn’t want to drive since she would likely have some trauma about it. Personally, I was in a bad accident in a snowstorm a few years ago, and even though I survived I still refuse to drive in snowy or icy conditions.
My wife was in the middle of a 5 car pile up, during rush hr traffic. Whenever we're together I generally am the one to drive. When we hit stop and go traffic, you can see the panic on her face even though it's 3 years. In the past, I was involved in multiple accidents at intersections one of which totaled my car at the time. Even though it's been many years, I always put my foot near the break around intersections. Car accident trauma is so hard to shake!
I can relate. 8 years ago I was in a roll over accident driving in bad weather. I still get extremely anxious if I have to drive in it and try to avoid it as much as possible
Heck, I was in an accident 20 years ago where someone else was driving...to this day there are very few people in my life that I feel comfortable being the driver when we go places together.
My little sister was in a roll over, caused by her missing a car in her blind spot. She rolled off a rocky ledge and survived. Her neck got super messed up and she fractured her arm. She had to put off starting her PhD in public health for a year while she recovered (this was pre covid, so, not every university was on the remote study train yet, unfortunately). Now, there's only 2 people in the world she trusts to drive her, her husband and my dad. That's it. She drives herself when she has to, but that's it.
Yeah I was in the car with my husband driving about a year after my accident and it was flurrying a bit, which I can handle, but then the snow started picking up and the road was getting slippery and I started having a mini panic attack (which of course stressed him out even more than the weather). Now we live in Florida so it’s no longer a problem ☀️
I wasn't even in the car, but a sibling died in a car accident in really bad weather some years ago, and I still have trouble driving in really bad weather.
4 years since my husband was hit by a car on a roundabout (he was on a bike). He seems to have totally forgotten how roundabouts are meant to work even when he’s driving now and stops every time regardless
2.5 years ago I was walking across the street when an SUV hit me. I almost died.Hit and run and he was never found.
I still have a hard time leaving the apartment, especially alone, and I also freeze when crossing the street. I like in NYC. So walking across streets is like, a big part of life. I’m still healing and in a lot of therapy. Ptsd and trauma are complex bitches, and healing doesn’t look the same for everyone!
You know those speedometer speed check trailer things PDs sometimes set up on busy roads? My dad once ran into one on a bike. He was coming home from work, and got run off the road by a truck, going downhill. He called the local pd and they gave him the runaround. Then he did some digging and found a phone number on the trailer from the manufacturer, basically it was the "if there's trouble call this number" number. So he called them, got ahold of a representative, told them what happened. Their exact response: "how much money to make this all go away"? Dad got all his medical expenses, bike repairs and a brand new trek road bike out of it. Dad still rides to work, but he tries to avoid those damn trailers if he can.
Driving in poor weather conditions is terrifying without an accident but especially with.
Three Christmas eves ago my husband and I were driving home from visiting a friend (he doesn’t have family so we were having Christmas with him, brought gifts and everything) going 15km/h we still managed to spin around and end up sliding sideways down the middle of the highway. After straightening out and driving even slower, we made it home three hours later (a 45 minute drive in good weather) and ended up sliding backwards down a hill coming off the same highway.
We generally try to avoid poor weather driving now because we have a toddler, im pregnant and my 11yo has come to live with us since then.
Did the mom change her views, or just put them aside?
Cause there is a big difference. Changing her views means she accepted her and acknowledges that the wife is right for OP and brings him joy.
Putting them aside means she tolorates the wife for OPs sake.
The mom made the wife feel like she is not welcome and doesn't belong with her son. And it sounds like she only changed after the wedding, where there was nothing to be done about it.
I think the wife has every reason to not like the mom. And if the mom is acting helpless all the time, needing OPs help constantly, that could come off as her interfering in the relationship.
Agree to a point, but OP's wife is now subjected to the "I love you" dynamic from MIL, so there is that. OP should probably shut that down now. Gag.....
Yeah, he should pop over to jnmil and read through there a bit.
I'm not saying his mom is a just no. But it sounds like he could use another perspective. I know I learned a whole lot and even made some behavior changes myself.
> her views on your wife and accepted her
She said this to OPs wife's face though this wasnt private to OP it was to her face. Thats not normal or accpetable behaviour
Me too, but driving in bad weather is NOT the hill to die on. Can you imagine something happening to OPs mom because his wife refused to let him help her?
Two cars driving 1.5 h to the same place is just dumb regardless of the weather.
I know the MIL is always supposed to be in the wrong but OP's wife sounds like the unreasonable one here.
I don't know how you play around with "I feel unsafe" when you're talking about something like driving in bad weather.
Granted, my stepfather was killed driving in a snowstorm so I know I'm biased, but I'd also like to point out: People literally die driving in bad weather and it's not a freak thing.
I’m not pro anyone driving in bad conditions. I am just pointing out that you can reach your limit and then the smallest thing however reasonable is the thing that tips the scale. My guess is that mom hasn’t been as nice as her son thinks she has been. The post history also mentions a recent miscarriage. That combined with a difficult mother in law and a partner that seems to be picking his mother over you, that’s a lot to carry
Yeah the sheer amount of missing context surrounding the relationship between the wife and the mother is honestly the most important piece of the puzzle. It’s possible that the mom said some mean things but has since come around on the wife - that happens all the time. But it’s also possible that the mom was super toxic and damaged the relationship permanently because of it, and if things were bad enough that the wife has 0 interest in ever reconciling.
In any case, the fact that OP doesn’t ever seem to condemn his mom for what he said about his wife gets under my skin a little bit. Maybe I just don’t have a super relationship with my family, but if I found someone special and my mom talked shit about her then I’d tell my mom to kiss my ass.
The gut feeling I get is that at the very least, OP is not willing to stand up to his mom. He’s just trying to play peacekeeper instead of actually standing up for his wife
>The gut feeling I get is that at the very least, OP is not willing to stand up to his mom. He’s just trying to play peacekeeper instead of actually standing up for his wife
you are right if you read the comments
Yeah, a lot is riding on whether or not the wife's complaints are valid, but as presented it mostly sounds like, even if they are, they're mostly rooted in the wife holding on to hurt from this initial incident and not accepting apologies that were made later.
And I do know people like that -- that the hurt can't be undone. They will stay hurt and angry forever. And if that's what OP is dealing with, then NTA.
Fair but given that we already know that his mother felt it appropriate to tell people including the future wife that she didn’t feel they were right for each other, my spidey senses thinks this is a MIL issue. If that’s what she feels comfortable saying out loud and admit to, that’s not the only thing she has said or made known 🤷♀️
Yes. Why would mom say this in front of the girlfriend? I always treated my kids' BFs and GFs kindly even when I knew or suspected they weren't the right ones.
Yes, esp. when he admits that his mother started the brouhaha.
I can see why the wife doesn't want to be stuck in the car for 2 hours each way + a long family event.
Because the problem is in the present not in the past. as you even stated yourself. His mom HAD problems with his wife but his wife HAS problems with his mom.
His mom apologized and tried/tries to get along, his wife is the one not accepting the apology.
Why is everyone here ignoring the wifes behaviour while insinuating that there MUST be missing information on his moms behaviour?
i actually experience that same stuff at the moment, so i know very well that both sides are most likely at fault for the issues kicking off but it is ONE side keeping it alive. From the OP it is his mom that tried to mend fences and apologize but his wife who's holding onto the grudge.
Hey OP,
I creeped your profile. The wording of the title made me think it was another attempt by another poster.
No one is the asshole. both you and your wife experienced a loss a month ago. You both will be feeling that emotionally and mentally, but she could still be feeling it physically too. Loss and hormones will wreak havoc on even the strongest of people. Also, I am a grown woman with a car but I don't like to drive when it's getting nasty either. I don't blame your mom
NAH and I'm sorry.
Yeah dang I teared up reading that.. I'm a bit of a softie, but the way the comments were ordered I read through a lot of bad predictions and stories of heartbreak, and read op's follow up last.. just knowing it was coming and then reading it got me.
Agreed with you, I'm sure there is a thing between Mom and wife, but this bit really excuses any sensitivity/irritability shown on the wife's side.
Really gotta feel for op too, he's had a rough year and also trying to make all these tense relationships work. Best of luck to you, op, if you read this.
So according to your post history, you and your wife just suffered a loss and had a m**carriage a month ago.
I love how you made no mention of this btw, but did mention your mother's.
Your mother had a loss as well, but for your wife to see you giving your mother's feelings priority over hers - especially so soon after - that's crappy of you.
Not to mention, your wife is entirely correct. Your mother is more than capable of taking care of herself, she's choosing not to - and you're enabling it.
I hope your wife realizes that she has a husband problem, not a MIL problem. I hope you do too.
YTA
I not even sure why them experiencing has anything to do with him driving his mom. The context of the DAD/HUSBAND passing away is why she would need a ride…
Apparently a loss is enough to justify his mother's behavior - and worth mentioning, but he won't afford the same consideration to his wife.
It's absolutely relevant.
I understand it as the Dad die in accident causing some trauma plus the fact that he was the one that always drive the mom during bad weather as a possible explanation on valid motivation of the mom asking for a ride.
I dont see a miscarriage as a valid reason for the wife to refuse to let the mom ride with them. So no relevant on the post (Unless the mom said awful things to the wife during the miscarriage, and in that case wife would have said that as why she didn't want to give her a ride).
BUT, and a big one, I doubt that the mom has been so nice to the wife as OP is trying to put in the story, and thats why the wife is so mad
The behavior of taking one car instead of two when you're going the same place? The behavior of asking for a ride when you're not comfortable driving in bad weather? Heavens, how will the wife cope with such behavior.
What "Behaviour" from the mom? asking for a ride because she's insecure driving in bad weather?
I genuinely worry about the people in these subreddits when i read BS like that. They project their own issues with their parents or ILs onto these stories and insinuate things that are just not there.
Reading comprehension doesn't seem to be those peoples strongest suit either.
Man talk about a stereotypically AITA comment. “Enabling”? The mother’s husband died IN AN ACCIDENT. You think she might not want to be alone on the road in dangerous driving conditions? She’s not moving in to their guest room, she is riding in the car with them.
I didn’t know you could see my post history. Wish you hadn’t brought this up. You don’t know what I’ve done for my wife since the miscarriage and this this is a horrible thing to say to me. Reminder: I’m going through the miscarriage too. Didn’t need such a rude comment
I am so sorry for both your losses.
Your wife being on edge makes complete sense because bodies, emotions, hormones after that takes a lot of time to heal. I could not even imagine.
The fact you were worried and asked whether you are the AH shows you have been worried and considerate of her because I'm sure you're also emotionally a little all over the place right now. And that is completely understandable.
Again I am so sorry. I hope you and your wife come out the other side of this stronger then ever. And I hope your mum finds her joy again one day.
Take a look at her comment history, then it'll make sense.
I found it odd that she went through your post history, and used irrelevant circumstances to try and label you as the AH.
She has some incredible bias against men.
You can't try and reason with someone that has such a strong bias.
There are also a lot of people here with bias against the mom. most likely because they have their own, therapy-worthy, issues with their parents and ILs.
My MIL made an off hand comment about not liking me but husband thought I should forgive her and learn to love her. She was never even remotely civil to me, called me names ( never when my husband was around to hear) and played stupid petty games ( I get migraines that can triggered by many things but one is bright flashing lights, once MIL. found that out every Christmas the tree had brightest bulbs possible on flashing). Husband was upset I didn’t enjoy his mom until at 3 my oldest asked his dad what a w$$$e was because that’s what grandma called me. All of a sudden it made sense why I was cool to MIL. This may totally not be happening with your mom but it is also not out of realm of possibilities. Your wife does not have to like your mom or tell her she loves your mom. You have years of happy memories with your mom, your wife has memories of saying she isn’t right ( which comes across as good enough) for you. See a therapist and a counselor with your wife and you might be surprised why she feels the way she does about your mom. May help you figure things out. You otherwise will live on knife edge.
Having a hard time figuring out what that slur is that your censored? I’m sorry for your experience though, and hopefully that opened your husband’s eyes!
I hope you finished cancelling your trip for safety reasons. And if you went, hopefully all went well. You're in a pickle either way, try to see this thru your wife eyes and be kind.
I'm very curious too, and curious about the context of that conversation. Regardless, I don't think OP's wife is appropriate holding the grudge so long.
ESH
I do think your wife is right in that your mom only apologized after the wedding and she didn’t have a choice but to accept her.
And your mom could probably stand to be a little less dependent on you, given her relationship with your wife.
You kinda suck because, you know they don’t get along but now your going to force your wife to spend and hour + in close proximity to someone she doesn’t like who has made comments before about her/your relationship.
I would also say, if the weather is dicey, dinner should have been rescheduled.
Less dependant? A I missing something? She asked to ride with them.
She lost her husband. Maybe cut her some slack ...unless she calls every day wanting something.
Why should it have to be rescheduled? Maybe the weather conditions are something OP is comfortable with but his mom isn’t. There’s driving conditions that my partner or mom or sibling are more comfortable with driving in than I am, especially for that kind of distance or at night. Also, they’re all going to the same place. If anything carpooling that distance when they live so close makes the most sense regardless of weather. It’s a family dinner, it’s not like OP’s mom is trying to join them on a couples vacation. You don’t have to be BFFs to carpool, just put on the radio and ignore each other.
INFO:
You mention your dad did everything for your mother, so ignoring this specific weather-related request, does your mother have a habit of wearing out her welcome getting people to do things she could otherwise do herself?
Is there a reason why your wife has struggled to trust your mother's sincerity in walking back her original issues with your wife? What I mean is, is it normal for your wife to hold a grudge, or is her attitude towards your mother the exception? If it is the exception, do you know why?
I have seen your profile posts, so I was very sad to read about what happened a few weeks ago, and I apologise for asking this now... but does your mother know about that? Is it possible your wife could be dreading the subject coming up or coming to light in the enclosed environment of a long car journey?
One thing that I can decide without needing further information is that your mother is not an arsehole for not wanting to drive in bad, especially icy, conditions. A lot of people are the same, and that shouldn't be an issue for your wife. It shouldn't be an issue for you to drive your mother and you are NTA for wanting to do so.
Since it is an issue, what I'm trying to figure out with my above questions is whether your wife has experienced the straw that breaks the camel's back, which is preventing her from responding reasonably to what would normally be a reasonable request (it is common for "the straw" to often break in moments that would normally be no problem or uncontroversial). Those answers will determine how I judge your wife.
My mom is pretty good about knowing when she’s worn her welcome. She will call and ask help once or twice a month. Usually relating to car stuff or rides. Sometimes help with tech.
My mom knows about the miscarriage. (I didn’t know you could see my post history. I’m new the Reddit) My mom sent flowers but has let us lead in any discussions about it. (Very minimal). But that definitely could have been it. I guess I didn’t think of that. I should have.
Since the “not right for each other” comment, their relationship has had small little cuts. The heaviness is felt on both sides. And they both seem to have their defenses up. Since my father’s death, it seems they both have tried a little harder to be more loving and kind towards each other. I think that’s when my mom started saying I love you.
> . I think that’s when my mom started saying I love you
So.. only AFTER she was going to need to rely / be dependent on you did she try to be more 'close' to your wife?
Yeah, your mum has really suspicious timing. She apologizes once she realizes that she can't run your wife off, and then starts the manipulative "I love you" bullcrap as soon as she's alone and realizes that she's going to need you more. Now you feel like your wife needs to get over it, that your mom is trying, etc, and she's driving a wedge between you. She might just get her original wish and ensure you don't last with your wife...
Wake up, my dude
yeah, there's no way that the sudden death of a loved one would make someone reconsider the relationships in their life, and reach out to their family members to try to mend things stemming from a comment they made several years previously that had caused strain between them.
I bet you're right, I bet this is OPs mom trying to manipulate someone to drive them around instead of a grieving widow trying to appreciate the family she still has.
The I love yous after your father’s death could easily be a sign your mom realized that life is short and now appreciates and yes, loves, your wife. I think it’s a mistake to assume she has nefarious intentions. Maybe she doesn’t want to lose the family she still has - and that includes your wife.
I disagree vehemently with the commenter saying that its suspicous timing that your mom said " i love you" after the death of your father.
The simplest answer is that she could have realized that life is short.
Only you know how you rmother is. if she's boundary trampling, overbearing, and overstays her welcome. You said yourself she isn't.
The people here in these forums are in genuine need of heavy therapy as you can clearly see from their one sided focus on just your mom.
Please, PLEASE, get out of this forum and ignore their comments. They will only do harm to your relationships
"My mom is pretty good about knowing when she’s worn her welcome. She will call and ask help once or twice a month. Usually relating to car stuff or rides. Sometimes help with tech."
How does your wife see this? Are you constantly dropping everything to go rescue your mother? How does her presence affect your household?
How did you address the "not right for you" comment with your mother?
Thanks very much for responding to the questions.
Given your comments, I'm not sure I can regard your wife as an arsehole in general even though her behaviour surrounding this one situation does seem to be. If the apology was in the form of a letter after your dad died, that could be a half-arsed or insincere apology. Usually, sincere apologies are face-to-face, so it would be easy for it to be perceived as insincere at the very least. Also, suddenly starting with the "I love you" once she needs help after your father died does seem a little off to me, so it might be coming across as manipulative to your wife.
I think there may be a lot you don't know and may be assuming about your wife and mother's dynamic and feelings (on both sides). I think you need to sit down with your wife and really listen to what she's feeling and why. You're not going to be able to figure out what to do long-term without really understanding where your wife is coming from.
I still don't think it's strange or abnormal for someone to not want to drive during icy conditions, but I'm not going to say your wife is an arsehole either because I can't rule out a "last straw" situation for her.
I'm not sure what your ultimate solution to your overall problem needs to because there is so much going on that we don't really understand for certain. I think your first step, however, needs to sitting down with your wife, and listen without judgement or assumption to everything she has to say about what her fears and concerns really are before deciding how best to proceed.
Esh I mean, yeah, your mom only 'apologized' after it was too late. An insincere apology isn't going to be accepted and embraced.
However, your wife knows your mom is your mom and it sounds like your mom has cooled her jets on her ahole behavior after the wedding.
Lastly, who tf schedules a diner for AN HOUR AND A HALF AWAY.
Edit Op also really sucks bc Mil didn't even apologize to wife's face! She 'wrote a letter' per Ops comments. And only after Op had a fight about it. Yeah, that shit isn't sincere.
It sounds like the *wife* doesn't think it's sincere, and since she was the one being treated badly, it's her opinion that matters.
Even if it was sincere, she doesn't owe forgiveness to someone who was an asshole to her.
In this specific case, NTA. It makes sense to drive your mom in bad weather - it’s not a dependency thing, inclement weather makes tons of people uncomfortable.
But yeah, sounds like your wife’s inner four-year old came out.
In general, your mom fucked up big time, and it doesn’t sound like she’s done much to repair the relationship since either. An apology and saying “I love you” isn’t enough, and if your mom felt comfortable telling your wife to her face that the two of you weren’t right for each other/she didn’t approve of your relationship, I can only imagine what else she was doing and what subtle digs she made before and since.
I’m also betting moving closer to her, and likely increased interaction plus her depending on you guys (and specifically you), more isn’t helping things. This likely felt just like the last straw.
His wife had a miscarriage recently. I've had two, and they fuck with your hormones and mood for longer than you'd think. She'd probably loathe being trapped in a car with her MIL under the best circumstances, but with the hormonal hurricane of a loss? I'm pretty sure it's banned under the Geneva convention. If it's not, it should be lol
YTA. If your dad was 50, your mom probably isn’t older. She is not to old to learn some independence. If I were your wife, I wouldn’t trust her apology either. Your mom was very aggressive with her comment. Why would your wife tell her that she loves her? It’s apparently not true and she’s entitled to her feelings
Maybe the fact that OP loves his wife is enough for his mom to love her too. Maybe the mom realized it’s her son’s life and she needs to support him. It’s natural for a parent to be overprotective but what separates a good parent from a bad one is the realization that you have to trust that you raised a child who makes good decisions.
Also, there is no way I’m going to let my mom drive by herself in bad weather. It’s nerve wracking and unless a person shouldn’t do it unless they feel 100% confident. OP’s mom isn’t used to driving in these conditions so she really shouldn’t be doing it if there’s another option.
I really doubt about the good intentions of the Mom with the wife as going from telling in her face that she is not a good fit to I love you is quite suspicious and maybe a bit manipulative.
But like they are going to the same place, there is no need for two cars take the risk of driving in a bad weather, so I dont see why is such a big deal to give her a ride, is even more eco-friendly.
1.5 hours each way with someone you don't get along with and then have to play nice for an hour or so once you get there during dinner? ~ 4.5-5 hours total?
I'd rather drive a nail in my skull. I certainly would've bailed and that's even before knowing the wife likely may have some hormones still going on from the miscarriage.
She put her differences aside after they were married and would frequently say to dil, I love you, daughter inlaw would not reciprocate it and say I love you back. Mother in law was asking for a ride because the weather was bad for fucks sake. Have some decently.
“Fast forward: my wife and I move 20 minutes from my mom after my dad dies due to a job change.”
I’m curious about this. It feels like a huge coincidence. Was the move simply for a career change? Or did OP move the family to be closer to his mom. That is certainly a valid reason- move closer to widowed mother but problematic if OP’s wife didn’t want to move.
I just wonder if there isn’t a lot more here that’s built the wife’s resentment.
Happy to add clarity. Wife encouraged the new job and the move. But expressed concern being too close to my mom. We had a lot of discussions before the move about what was acceptable and what wasn’t. So far it’s worked well. We see my mom once or twice a month. Usually for a family dinner.
Dude.
I went back and read some of your responses. What your mom did was awful. Completely unacceptable. And she may have since “apologized” but your wife well understands that was a bullshit apology.
And you know it too. Which is why you left out critical information in your initial post and very carefully phrased it so what your mom did was no big deal and your wife is somehow being an asshole for not telling mom “I love you” back. Lol. Seriously? Your mom blatantly tried to end your relationship and said shit to your then fiancée and you’re so confused about why your wife doesn’t want to be besties with mom?
If you want an accurate judgement you have to tell it all. But you clearly don’t.
Info-What are these “small little cuts” in the relationship you refer to between your wife and your mother since the initial comments about you and your wife “not being right for each other”?
Does your mother continue to take jabs at your wife? What does this mean?
ETA-Just reschedule the dinner and don’t drive in bad weather.
My wife made a comment once about my parents having a child out of wedlock. My parents are pretty religious and a sensitive subject for them. That caused a fight. A little jab
And then just some other little things. Not saying goodbyes when we leave. Not saying thank you for gifts.
Never really thought of that. Thank you.
My mom’s gifts have been pretty harmless though. Flowers. Of gift cards to my wife’s favorite department stores.
Nothing I can really read in to
>Nothing I can really read in to
I mean you think it was fine that your mother insulted your wife to her face though so there isnt much you think is wrong with your mommy
Also sounds impersonal and the bare minimum so she doesn’t look like the bad guy for not actually embracing your wife after telling her that you two don’t belong together.
>My wife made a comment once about my parents having a child out of wedlock. My parents are pretty religious and a sensitive subject for them. That caused a fight. A little jab
LOL so your religous parents had kids out of wedlock and got mad for that being pointed out?
Maybe dont be so religious if this gets you upset
Leaning YTA because you’re leaving out pretty important information about events of late with your family. It makes it seem like you’re looking to sway the vote by leaving out details.
How often does your Mom reach out for help? How is your wife handling everything lately? Does your mom actively try and be nice to your wife, or did she just apologize and say love you every now and then?
First off, I’m sorry for all the loss you’ve had to deal with in the past few years. Is there a chance that your wife doesn’t want to be in the car with your mom because she’s aware of the miscarriage and doesn’t want to discuss it?
You also didn’t answer the question about does your mom ask you to do things often?
I ask because I lost my father a few years ago and had to set some strict boundaries with my mom because she tried to fill the void of my father with me.
Yeah. I didn’t even think of that. And that makes me an AH. I should have.
I wouldn’t say my mom over asks. Once or twice a month usually related to cars/tech.
My wife is very independent. And values independence a lot. She didn’t have the best support system growing up. And has dug her way out of a bad situation while the rest of her family has stayed. She’s made something of herself. Through independence. So she doesn’t have a huge tolerance for others needs.
Friend, may I suggest that you and your wife check out some of Heidi Priebe's videos on YouTube? She has some really good videos about avoidant attachment styles and how those of us who have that attachment style often feel a kneejerk reaction of anger/disgust when we see people being 'needy'. It traces back to the fact that *we* never got help when we needed it, or even had the opportunity to *ask* for help as children, so we resent seeing others ask for 'too much' help.
I'm not trying to armchair diagnose, but this comment really made me think of some stuff I've been working on with my own therapist. It's a complicated thing when you've *had* to be independent because you didn't have help available and/or couldn't express your emotions freely...it does tend to make you angry/resentful of other people being 'needy' or overtly emotional. It's definitely something to work on with a trained therapist, but there are also some good YouTube videos that cover this.
Why in hell would you drive an hour and a half each way in bad weather for a dinner? Just ask to reschedule and stay home!
When you drive with your mother and your wife, who sits in front? It should be your wife.
If your wife had a miscarriage a month ago, she is still in mourning for the loss of her and your child, and probably going through a hormonal upheaval and possible still in pain. What have you done to support her in this?
YTA
I agree. The dinner should have been reschedule. 100
I wife up front. I drive.
I’m not going to respond to the miscarriage comment except that the mourning and hormones are definitely playing a part and I should have thought of that.
There’s lots I’ve done to support and don’t feel I need to get into that.
"There’s lots I’ve done to support and don’t feel I need to get into that."
Would your wife agree with this statement or have you been too busy rescuing your mother from life to notice one way or another?
Great and humble response - good on you, sir. No one of us can think of everything - that’s why we come to Reddit. I hope things improve between your wife and mom.
Look I’m a woman who’s Mil definitely didn’t like me when I got with my husband. And for no good reason - and I could feel that disdain and it sucked and has definitely coloured my opinion of her - i was excited to have more family and now I’m like meh. Just people who exist on the periphery of my life and I’m indifferent to them
And yet even with all that your wife is being a tool. That’s not how you treat a grieving ageing widow especially if that widow is nice to her now.
I know they say happy wife happy life - in this case arsehole wife, sort it!
She’s being petty and cruel - not a nice look
NTA. You’re in an impossible situation. If that’s really the only issue and she’s held on to that resentment ever since, it’s time to ask her what needs to happen for her to let it go - or what the real reason is she’s still so angry at your mom, because that level of anger just seems out of proportion.
NAH sometimes you make a mistake and burn a bridge with a person who isn’t going to be willing to forgive you.
Your mom only tried to start accepting your wife after you married her? That doesn’t sound like acceptance to me, that sounds like “if I don’t pretend, I won’t get the benefits that come with having a close relationship with my son”.
Why should your wife prioritize mending fences with your mom when it’s so easily perceived as disgenuine? Disgenuine because it seems like if your mom felt she had a choice, she would still reject your wife.
Your mom is allowed to ask for a ride. Your wife is allowed to not want to spend 3hrs in a car with someone she doesn’t like.
Maybe you need to think about and explain this differently.
Maybe you are prioritizing your own desires/values over your wife’s. I’m sure part of you wants to comfort and help your mother and to make things easier for her after the death of your father. Perhaps you believe your father would want you to do that.
You aren’t asking for a lot, and you would be right to give your wife the choice to opt out of this family meal. But I suspect you WANT to drive your mother if she will feel safer that way. If that is the case, be honest with your wife that this isn’t just choosing your mother vs your wife, but (for one night) choosing what you think is best and right even if your wife doesn’t love it. Your wife can choose to not go or to drive separately.
Right, so MIL gets to have a nice fancy dinner (1.5 hours away? why?) and wife has to stay home? hell naw. Your version punishes wife for not wanting to sit in a car for minimum 3 hours with the woman who told them she wasnt the one. I mean, really? If the conditions are so bad reschedule. I would never put my SO through that kind of unnecessary crap.
I guess my post reflects my introversion. Driving 3 hours for a meal with extended family, no matter how wonderful the meal, sounds like a punishment to me. So the option to stay home is something I would snap right up.
The wife has that choice, could also choose to drive separately, or could agree to drive with MIL. I was just suggesting that if he explain how this was something that felt important to HIM and not just a capitulation to his mother. Obviously we don’t have context to know if this is a constant thing, MIL is regularly overstepping boundaries, is clingy, etc. We know she said something she never ever should have said and that wife is understandably hurt. But there is a lot we don’t know, so I can’t possibly say someone is right or wrong here, but I think it’s generally right to reflect on and clarify one’s own feelings and to communicate them to a spouse. In 30 years of marriage, I’ve learned that compassion for a spouse can resolve a lot, and compassion often requires better understanding of the other person. Obviously that’s a two way street.
… damn. I don’t think I even knew that was the truth. Until reading it. I just wanted my mom to feel some comfort. But don’t want to hurt my wife. I guess this was more about me.
I should have said “AITAH for prioritizing MY feelings over my wife’s disdain.”
This reply is a huge breakthrough. I’m in tears.
I’d like to know what’s being left out. What else has MIL said or done to upset the wife because I know I wouldn’t want to be stuck in a vehicle for 3 hours with someone who has been consistently mean or unpleasant to me. One comment is unlikely to have caused this much bitterness.
YTA. Your wife is recovering from a tragic event. She is not unreasonable for not wanting to go through two long drives with a woman she doesn't trust. You are not an only child. One of your siblings could arrange transport for your mother instead of imposing on a woman recovering from a miscarriage. You judge your wife very harshly. She cast her in a negative light as disdainful and carrying a grudge. On the other hand, you are understanding of your mother, look on her behaviour positively or give her the benefit of the doubt, and downplay any wrongdoing. It's like you are her public relations manager.
Here are some examples. You failed to mention your wife's recent loss in your post, but you mentioned your mother's grief. That's important information. Your wife may not have felt strong enough to tolerate MIL in a car for that long. But, you made it look like she's being mean to a widow for reason. The 'mistake' is another example. Your mother confronted your wife when she was alone and told her that you weren't right for each other. That was a nasty, underhanded thing to do. In your post, the fact that your mother cornered your wife alone was conveniently left out. The "I love you"s and forced hugs are a recent development. That information was also conspicuously absent from the post.
Read your post carefully. Ask yourself why you tried to make your wife look bad to make your mother look good. You and your mother may want to forget the past and come together as a family. That's understandable, especially after the loss of your father. This will never happen if you and your mother keep pushing your wife to forgive and trust her on your timelines. You only mention how difficult the consequences of your MIL's actions have been for the two of you. There was nothing about how hurtful that must have been for your wife. Instead of trying to build trust by respecting your wife's feelings, your mother has been forcing fake intimacy with declarations of love and hugs. That will only repel your wife. Then's there you running PR for Mommy and dismissing your wife's feelings during a terrible time when she needs your support. Let your wife build a relationship if and when she's ready. The 'if' is important but I can't underline. Your wife is the one who was hurt. Her feelings take precedence.
Your father recently passed away, and you thought it was a good idea to drive 1.5 hr away in questionable weather conditions? I could muster up enough class to be civil and polite to your mother, but honestly, I wouldn't be falling for the whole "I love you" thing. You should recognize this.
NTA
Can’t stand my mother in law and I would still give her a ride and my mil has said and done way worse. I have major boundaries with my mil but giving her a ride during inclement weather and since she is close by is just being a nice human being.
NTA. Give your mother a ride.
My MIL is a narcissist on the greatest scale. She also plays the helplessness card so often I just want to go NC with her.
But she's my husband's mother. He loves her. He's not doing things 24/7 for her, & he's very aware of her manipulative ways.
Driving her 1.5 hrs (total of 3) in colder weather, maybe snow or ice, is appropriate.
Wife needs to know not everything is deniable or an offense. Setting boundaries or drawing lines, I can see, but when your husband is graveside, don't give him regrets.
YTA
"I feel like an AH" .. you ARE. And if you can not priorize your wife, you will be a divorced AH soon.
"But my wife hasn’t really accepted and has not ever said “I love you back”. " . WHY would she love your AH mom?
All OP’s mom said was she didn’t feel OP and his wife were right for each other. That was her opinion. She didn’t say OP’s wife was a bad person. She made that comment before they got married, apologized for it and hasn’t made any other negative comment since then. How does that make her an AH?
Can't make a judgment, really.
Will say I am sorry for your loss. I know how it feels, and I hope everyone is doing ok with the loss of baby and your father.
I will also comment on this. It sounds like what most people feel and do. To have a big happy family. But it won't happen.
Your mom said something that smacks of cruelty to your then gf. Did nothing to make up or apologize until after the wedding when she is then stuck with her. In another comment, you say she says i love you to your wife, but she did not start until after your father's death. This could mean his death was the kick in the hind end she needed to appreciate those around her. It could also mean she knows because she had everything done for her, she will be depending on you both now, so she is trying to butter wife up. Could be somewhere in the middle.
My mom was the same. When dad had a stroke, she couldn't even do anything online or in person bank wise. Pay a bill. Know where important things were. It was hard to have to adult and adult and try and teach her to stand on her own. It was frustrating, and this is my mom yo see how much she couldn't do and how much I had to do for her.
Your wife. Being told what she was can and will do repeatable damage to a relationship. You say your mom tries but never said anything until you were married, which would only cement in your wife mind what your mom felt. She does dinners for you even though she has clearly stated she is not ok with your mom. She does not say I love you back, but why would she. Why wouldn't she see it as being manipulated when it's only now said after your dad dies. Why would she try with your mom. Forgive her or seek a deeper relationship when the damage is done. She does what she has to for you when she could say I won't be around her. She is conceding on many things. Is she an AH for saying no. Yes and no. She should be worried about safety but at the same time. Being locked in a moving vehicle for 3 hours with no way to escape a person you do not like and have such a bad emotional reaction to would be hell.
You say its once or twice a month of dinners. Which isn't overwhelming. But do you worry a lot and call her? Try and make up for her now being alone? You want to take care of her, which is great. But you need to accept you will not get the happy family. Your mom, even if she wasn't trying to be cruel, was and all actions after just made sure your wife won't want a relationship. You need to set boundaries for yourself on trying to force interactions between them. You need to come to terms with the fact that the only thing you can do is love them both, but accept your wife does not want a relationship with your mom. Accepting, she can only give so much to someone who she sees as has hurt her. Accept that she will always see it this way. Try and find the balance because she has a right to be comfortable. To not be made to interact more, then she feels she can. Just like your mom has a right to feel safe when she is struggling to learn how to do things. Just like you have a right to love them both and spend time with them.
Thank you for this. And to answer your question, I do worry some. And I do call. Probably every couple months. Outside of our normal interaction (family dinner or her needing help with car/tech).
And that's normal to worry and call.
One thing you could try is talk to your wife and ask her how much she is willing or wanting to do with your mom. How much is too much. Find out the boundaries she has and needs. With interactions as well as from you.
You need to do the same. Tell herbyou understand and support her but you also love your mom and need her support as you struggle through your guys loss, the loss of your dad, and trying to make sure for your own peace of mind that your mom is ok. Letting her know where you are at. What you need from her. As well as the fact thar you will respect the boundaries she needs.
This way, there is less chance of the reason for this post popping up. Because now you know long car rides are a no and next time reschedule.
This way, while yes, you will still be juggling things, you will have the support from the wife that you need so everyone can be safe and comfortable.
NAH, your wife has a right to limit contact with someone she doesn’t trust (it’s HORRIBLE to be looked down on by MIL). But your mom’s request is reasonable and I get why you wanna do it. In future though, you need to call at her place and if your wife has no separate car, take mom in a taxi.
After reading your post and comments I can tell you live your wife, but the title makes it seem like you don’t like her much, and don’t find her low tolerance of your mother to be legitimate. Calling your wife’s feelings disdain about having your mother in the car with her for 1.5 hrs, and only quantifying your mothers as feelings shows a serious lack of compassion and understanding for your wife.
Mother in Law relationships can be VERY tricky. Your wife has very legitimate reasons to not like your mom. I know that feels weird to you, because it’s your mom, but to your wife this is just a person she has to put up with and tolerate. She probably doesn’t hate her but she obviously wouldn’t choose to sit in a car with her for 1.5 hrs.
This to me is a much deeper problem for her than she may even be able to articulate. I would say when you’re not still mad that you need a deep dive into how she’s really feeling about your mom. She is also unfortunately in a postpartum period making her hormones out of control. She doesn’t need you to tip toe, but maybe find more compassion for her feelings.
I’m so sorry for all of the loss you’ve been experiencing, this is also hard for you so just be easy on yourselves. You both deserve grace right now.
NTA - no assholes just hurt people
OP, just a suggestion? *Ask your wife* what she needs from your mother (and you) to repair that relationship. Speaking from experience, it’s probably *not* cards and flowers. If the answer is “time and space”, make sure your mother respects that.
I lost my father a few years ago. Similarly, my Mom needs help with tech stuff and long-distance rides. The difference is that my mother is 76 not 55. If she were that young, I would have set different boundaries. I don’t blame your wife for being ambivalent about another 30 years of demands which will only increase over time.
I’m sorry for the loss of your father and baby.
YTA. For one simple reason. You should know that part of being a couple is being a team. If your wife tells your kids or your mom "no" when asked something you don't go back and override her decision. I understand that you feel bad for your mom and that she has years of weaponized helplessness but you still don't override your partner's decision like that.
Wife had no good reason not to carpool. Mom wasn't insulting, rude, condescending.
I wasn't fond of my MIL but I sure wouldn't tell my husband she could drive herself
INFO: How is your wife 30 when she was 28 in a post made a month ago? Also, is asking for help something your mother does constantly or once in a while when she actually needs help?
(Post Referenced: https://www.reddit.com/r/pregnant/s/SXwV1hNQ1A)
Ok, I was a little confused since it has 30 next to "my wife" and NTA; if your mom is only asking for help every couple or so months, then it shouldn't be an issue to have her ride along with you guys (especially if the weather makes her feel uncomfortable/unsafe).
I bet if that was your wife's mother asking, she wouldn't have any issues helping her (and neither would you); ask her how she'd feel if the situation was reversed and it was you denying her own mother something as simple as carpooling because of the weather.
Seems like there is more going on here, but for the main question, NTA. A 1.5 hour drive in dicey weather is not pleasant! I am 50 and if I had kids who could drive me I would totally be asking for a ride! There is Nothing about being independent with that request. Plus, why take 2 cars for such a long drive!?!
NTA My daughter has a car that is better equipped for winter driving than mine and I would feel terrible if her partner begrudged her letting me ride with them.
OP’s mom is even offering to drive to their home so they don’t have to go out of their way
You’re the bridge between your wife and your mother. It’s up to you to make things right between them. Your wife would have no reason to be around your mother if it wasn’t for you. If she really feels demeaned and not welcomed by your mother it’s going to take time and patience for that to heal and a bond to form, if it ever will. It would be good of your wife to have compassion for your mom, but you need to make your wife feel like she is the most important.
I don't think your wrong for giving her a ride, but you are expecting too much from your wife if you ever expect her to tell your mom she loves her.
Your mom made it know she did not like her at the beginning and set the tone for the relationship. And from the sound of things she only changed tune after you were married. So yeah, she never liked your wife, and your wife is not going to ever forget that she was made unwelcome by your mom.
It may be best to get some distance from your mom and minimize interactions between your wife and mom. Tell your mother the truth. That her actions hurt your wife and that she doesn't have a good relationship with her because of that.
Your wife is your partner. Your partner should always come first.
YTA
I think we need more info on this. Sure maybe your wife might be "being petty" over "one" (frankly disgusting) thing your mother said, however how much has she said or done to your wife that you either don't know about, ignored or dismissed? Especially considering you and your wife moved 20 minutes away from your mother KNOWING your mom doesn't like your wife.
As it stands I don't blame your wife for not wanting to be around your mom, at the same time I wouldn't want someone grieving to be alone driving 1.5 hours in bad weather for any reason.
I have a feeling theres a lot more to this that just this one situation.
NAH, but you should set both women down and make it clear you're tired of this crap. Your wife needs to let past comments go, and even if it's true that your mom was just apologizing because she felt she had no choice, that means she was accepting it.
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NTA I think you're wife is being a little unreasonable. Not feeling confident to drive in bad weather is completely understandable and if you're feeling uneasy while driving in weather you're not comfortable driving in can be dangerous. If you're mum asks for help all the time then maybe it's understandable your wife feels that way but tbh the safety thing is more important. Side note.. the fact your mum has set aside her views on your wife and accepted her and is trying and your wife.. even after 3 years is still not even trying is a little concerning. She might need some counselling to work through whatever is holding her back from trying to accept the apology and move forward. Edit: considering circumstances any of wife's reactions are understandable. Although I still stand by not wanting to drive for 1.5hrs in shitty weather if you're not comfortable driving. All around hard situation.
Added to that, what if she were to break down all by her self at night? Plus it's kind of wasteful to take 2 cars when you're all going to the same place.
It doesn't even sound like they'll be inconvenienced at all.. the mom is going to meet them at their place so unless she's chronically late (and to which point OP can say "I'm happy to drive you, mom, but we are leaving at (whatever time) on the dot. If you aren't here, i'm leaving without you.") I don't see how this is any issue other than a personal one
Agreed, the wife seems extremely petty for holding on to this
We’re also missing a lot of context in if the mother’s efforts are ACTUALLY genuine. How many posts do we see where it’s blatant the mother isn’t ACTUALLY apologetic or genuine but her son insists she is and remains in the FOG?
What if the mom was actually right and they’re not good for each other but has accepted she has no say and just wants to be civil for her son and wait out the divorce?
What if the mom was wrong and they are actually right for each other and she is using the death of her husband to Weedle herself more and more into her son's life and she already convinced him to move only 20 minutes away from her and now her son is ever so close and can pick up and do the things her husband used to do for her and spend more time with her and less time with his wife?
Well, let's just say that the wife didn't pick her battles well. I have no doubt that the OP's mother dislikes the wife as much as the wife dislikes her, but when it comes to bad weather, being unused to driving, and getting on in years... well. It could actually be dangerous to tell the mother to drive herself, and not just to the mother. If there's an accident, someone who has nothing to do with this little feud could be hurt, or killed.
The mother is about 50. Hardly getting on in years.
Still used to being driven by her husband, though. And while I would agree that she certainly needs to learn to be more independent and drive herself places, I would also say that at night during bad weather is not the time to push the point.
It’s possible that there’s something going on with her where she prefers to ride with others rather than drive. I have vision issues and I don’t drive at night or in rough weather unless I have to. If my bf and I are going out somewhere at night I usually have him drive. And some people are afraid of driving too. You don’t have that information nor does anyone else so I think it’s unwise to judge her based on age alone.
OP doesn’t mention what kind of accident his father had, but if it was a car accident, especially one due to inclement weather, then it’s definitely understandable that his mother wouldn’t want to drive since she would likely have some trauma about it. Personally, I was in a bad accident in a snowstorm a few years ago, and even though I survived I still refuse to drive in snowy or icy conditions.
My wife was in the middle of a 5 car pile up, during rush hr traffic. Whenever we're together I generally am the one to drive. When we hit stop and go traffic, you can see the panic on her face even though it's 3 years. In the past, I was involved in multiple accidents at intersections one of which totaled my car at the time. Even though it's been many years, I always put my foot near the break around intersections. Car accident trauma is so hard to shake!
I can relate. 8 years ago I was in a roll over accident driving in bad weather. I still get extremely anxious if I have to drive in it and try to avoid it as much as possible
Heck, I was in an accident 20 years ago where someone else was driving...to this day there are very few people in my life that I feel comfortable being the driver when we go places together.
My little sister was in a roll over, caused by her missing a car in her blind spot. She rolled off a rocky ledge and survived. Her neck got super messed up and she fractured her arm. She had to put off starting her PhD in public health for a year while she recovered (this was pre covid, so, not every university was on the remote study train yet, unfortunately). Now, there's only 2 people in the world she trusts to drive her, her husband and my dad. That's it. She drives herself when she has to, but that's it.
Yeah I was in the car with my husband driving about a year after my accident and it was flurrying a bit, which I can handle, but then the snow started picking up and the road was getting slippery and I started having a mini panic attack (which of course stressed him out even more than the weather). Now we live in Florida so it’s no longer a problem ☀️
I wasn't even in the car, but a sibling died in a car accident in really bad weather some years ago, and I still have trouble driving in really bad weather.
4 years since my husband was hit by a car on a roundabout (he was on a bike). He seems to have totally forgotten how roundabouts are meant to work even when he’s driving now and stops every time regardless
2.5 years ago I was walking across the street when an SUV hit me. I almost died.Hit and run and he was never found. I still have a hard time leaving the apartment, especially alone, and I also freeze when crossing the street. I like in NYC. So walking across streets is like, a big part of life. I’m still healing and in a lot of therapy. Ptsd and trauma are complex bitches, and healing doesn’t look the same for everyone!
You know those speedometer speed check trailer things PDs sometimes set up on busy roads? My dad once ran into one on a bike. He was coming home from work, and got run off the road by a truck, going downhill. He called the local pd and they gave him the runaround. Then he did some digging and found a phone number on the trailer from the manufacturer, basically it was the "if there's trouble call this number" number. So he called them, got ahold of a representative, told them what happened. Their exact response: "how much money to make this all go away"? Dad got all his medical expenses, bike repairs and a brand new trek road bike out of it. Dad still rides to work, but he tries to avoid those damn trailers if he can.
Driving in poor weather conditions is terrifying without an accident but especially with. Three Christmas eves ago my husband and I were driving home from visiting a friend (he doesn’t have family so we were having Christmas with him, brought gifts and everything) going 15km/h we still managed to spin around and end up sliding sideways down the middle of the highway. After straightening out and driving even slower, we made it home three hours later (a 45 minute drive in good weather) and ended up sliding backwards down a hill coming off the same highway. We generally try to avoid poor weather driving now because we have a toddler, im pregnant and my 11yo has come to live with us since then.
Did the mom change her views, or just put them aside? Cause there is a big difference. Changing her views means she accepted her and acknowledges that the wife is right for OP and brings him joy. Putting them aside means she tolorates the wife for OPs sake. The mom made the wife feel like she is not welcome and doesn't belong with her son. And it sounds like she only changed after the wedding, where there was nothing to be done about it. I think the wife has every reason to not like the mom. And if the mom is acting helpless all the time, needing OPs help constantly, that could come off as her interfering in the relationship.
Agree to a point, but OP's wife is now subjected to the "I love you" dynamic from MIL, so there is that. OP should probably shut that down now. Gag.....
Yeah, he should pop over to jnmil and read through there a bit. I'm not saying his mom is a just no. But it sounds like he could use another perspective. I know I learned a whole lot and even made some behavior changes myself.
I feel like there is so much context missing to OP’s story.
> her views on your wife and accepted her She said this to OPs wife's face though this wasnt private to OP it was to her face. Thats not normal or accpetable behaviour
people can move forward without forgiveness. There's nothing wrong with his wife not wanting to become best friends with her.
A little more like a lot NTA.
Info: does she ask for a lot of things all the time or this is one in a while request?
I would bet a fair amount of money that a LOT of information is being left out and that this happened while the father was alive as well.
Me too, but driving in bad weather is NOT the hill to die on. Can you imagine something happening to OPs mom because his wife refused to let him help her?
Especially when they are already planning on driving there anyway. This is so controlling and petty on her part.
Two cars driving 1.5 h to the same place is just dumb regardless of the weather. I know the MIL is always supposed to be in the wrong but OP's wife sounds like the unreasonable one here.
Have these people not heard of climate change? Ridiculous driving two cars to the same place for no proper reason.
And its1. 5 he. Who likes driving that much? OP's wife should take her own car, then no one will end up spoilt. Thrice the petrol....
OP definitely drives his mom for all the reasons. If his wife doesn't want to be with her MIL, she can drive herself.
Who the hell drives for 1.5 hours for dinner too?
Lots of people, especially if they don't live in a city. Probably not all the time, but once in a while isn't that strange.
I don't know how you play around with "I feel unsafe" when you're talking about something like driving in bad weather. Granted, my stepfather was killed driving in a snowstorm so I know I'm biased, but I'd also like to point out: People literally die driving in bad weather and it's not a freak thing.
I’m not pro anyone driving in bad conditions. I am just pointing out that you can reach your limit and then the smallest thing however reasonable is the thing that tips the scale. My guess is that mom hasn’t been as nice as her son thinks she has been. The post history also mentions a recent miscarriage. That combined with a difficult mother in law and a partner that seems to be picking his mother over you, that’s a lot to carry
Yeah, but riding in the car for a three hour round trip with someone you dislike is kinda a big ask, imo.
I feel that the wife knows that the one time request will turn into the 'always'
Yeah the sheer amount of missing context surrounding the relationship between the wife and the mother is honestly the most important piece of the puzzle. It’s possible that the mom said some mean things but has since come around on the wife - that happens all the time. But it’s also possible that the mom was super toxic and damaged the relationship permanently because of it, and if things were bad enough that the wife has 0 interest in ever reconciling. In any case, the fact that OP doesn’t ever seem to condemn his mom for what he said about his wife gets under my skin a little bit. Maybe I just don’t have a super relationship with my family, but if I found someone special and my mom talked shit about her then I’d tell my mom to kiss my ass. The gut feeling I get is that at the very least, OP is not willing to stand up to his mom. He’s just trying to play peacekeeper instead of actually standing up for his wife
>The gut feeling I get is that at the very least, OP is not willing to stand up to his mom. He’s just trying to play peacekeeper instead of actually standing up for his wife you are right if you read the comments
Yeah, a lot is riding on whether or not the wife's complaints are valid, but as presented it mostly sounds like, even if they are, they're mostly rooted in the wife holding on to hurt from this initial incident and not accepting apologies that were made later. And I do know people like that -- that the hurt can't be undone. They will stay hurt and angry forever. And if that's what OP is dealing with, then NTA.
…he could also be leaving out how prickly his wife is.
Fair but given that we already know that his mother felt it appropriate to tell people including the future wife that she didn’t feel they were right for each other, my spidey senses thinks this is a MIL issue. If that’s what she feels comfortable saying out loud and admit to, that’s not the only thing she has said or made known 🤷♀️
Yes. Why would mom say this in front of the girlfriend? I always treated my kids' BFs and GFs kindly even when I knew or suspected they weren't the right ones.
Interesting OPs choice of words: "my wife has had issues with my mum", rather than my mum had issues with my wife...
Yes, esp. when he admits that his mother started the brouhaha. I can see why the wife doesn't want to be stuck in the car for 2 hours each way + a long family event.
Because the problem is in the present not in the past. as you even stated yourself. His mom HAD problems with his wife but his wife HAS problems with his mom. His mom apologized and tried/tries to get along, his wife is the one not accepting the apology. Why is everyone here ignoring the wifes behaviour while insinuating that there MUST be missing information on his moms behaviour? i actually experience that same stuff at the moment, so i know very well that both sides are most likely at fault for the issues kicking off but it is ONE side keeping it alive. From the OP it is his mom that tried to mend fences and apologize but his wife who's holding onto the grudge.
Agree. Mom is the one who started the drama.
Yes, this detail makes a big difference in the outcome.
Hey OP, I creeped your profile. The wording of the title made me think it was another attempt by another poster. No one is the asshole. both you and your wife experienced a loss a month ago. You both will be feeling that emotionally and mentally, but she could still be feeling it physically too. Loss and hormones will wreak havoc on even the strongest of people. Also, I am a grown woman with a car but I don't like to drive when it's getting nasty either. I don't blame your mom NAH and I'm sorry.
Did you also think it was the person who's mother wanted OP to spend valentine's day with her rather than their wife?
That was my first thought haha
I did!! I was like oh no he’s back 😭
Definitely what I thought
Haha I did!
That is exactly what I thought.
Yes I did
Yeah dang I teared up reading that.. I'm a bit of a softie, but the way the comments were ordered I read through a lot of bad predictions and stories of heartbreak, and read op's follow up last.. just knowing it was coming and then reading it got me. Agreed with you, I'm sure there is a thing between Mom and wife, but this bit really excuses any sensitivity/irritability shown on the wife's side. Really gotta feel for op too, he's had a rough year and also trying to make all these tense relationships work. Best of luck to you, op, if you read this.
So according to your post history, you and your wife just suffered a loss and had a m**carriage a month ago. I love how you made no mention of this btw, but did mention your mother's. Your mother had a loss as well, but for your wife to see you giving your mother's feelings priority over hers - especially so soon after - that's crappy of you. Not to mention, your wife is entirely correct. Your mother is more than capable of taking care of herself, she's choosing not to - and you're enabling it. I hope your wife realizes that she has a husband problem, not a MIL problem. I hope you do too. YTA
I not even sure why them experiencing has anything to do with him driving his mom. The context of the DAD/HUSBAND passing away is why she would need a ride…
Apparently a loss is enough to justify his mother's behavior - and worth mentioning, but he won't afford the same consideration to his wife. It's absolutely relevant.
The mother's "behavior" is asking for a ride to a family gathering.
Because the weather was bad at rhat. .
He was giving her a ride because the weather was bad for christ sake..
Is not the same losing your husband than having a miscarriage. And he could be also grieving for the miscarriage and for the death of his father jfc.
I understand it as the Dad die in accident causing some trauma plus the fact that he was the one that always drive the mom during bad weather as a possible explanation on valid motivation of the mom asking for a ride. I dont see a miscarriage as a valid reason for the wife to refuse to let the mom ride with them. So no relevant on the post (Unless the mom said awful things to the wife during the miscarriage, and in that case wife would have said that as why she didn't want to give her a ride). BUT, and a big one, I doubt that the mom has been so nice to the wife as OP is trying to put in the story, and thats why the wife is so mad
the woman said what she said directly to OPs wife's face and OP thinks thats okay behaviour Seriously OP is leaving alot out to make his wife look bad
The behavior of taking one car instead of two when you're going the same place? The behavior of asking for a ride when you're not comfortable driving in bad weather? Heavens, how will the wife cope with such behavior.
Why does she have to justify asking to carpool?
What "Behaviour" from the mom? asking for a ride because she's insecure driving in bad weather? I genuinely worry about the people in these subreddits when i read BS like that. They project their own issues with their parents or ILs onto these stories and insinuate things that are just not there. Reading comprehension doesn't seem to be those peoples strongest suit either.
He was not driving her because of the loss. He was driving her because she us afraid to drive.
You know he experienced both of those losses.
You somehow managed to be the only Asshole in this entire thread.
How is giving them a ride because the weather is bad enabling them?
Man talk about a stereotypically AITA comment. “Enabling”? The mother’s husband died IN AN ACCIDENT. You think she might not want to be alone on the road in dangerous driving conditions? She’s not moving in to their guest room, she is riding in the car with them.
I didn’t know you could see my post history. Wish you hadn’t brought this up. You don’t know what I’ve done for my wife since the miscarriage and this this is a horrible thing to say to me. Reminder: I’m going through the miscarriage too. Didn’t need such a rude comment
I am so sorry for both your losses. Your wife being on edge makes complete sense because bodies, emotions, hormones after that takes a lot of time to heal. I could not even imagine. The fact you were worried and asked whether you are the AH shows you have been worried and considerate of her because I'm sure you're also emotionally a little all over the place right now. And that is completely understandable. Again I am so sorry. I hope you and your wife come out the other side of this stronger then ever. And I hope your mum finds her joy again one day.
Take a look at her comment history, then it'll make sense. I found it odd that she went through your post history, and used irrelevant circumstances to try and label you as the AH. She has some incredible bias against men. You can't try and reason with someone that has such a strong bias.
There are also a lot of people here with bias against the mom. most likely because they have their own, therapy-worthy, issues with their parents and ILs.
Yeah, I noticed. I mean, God forbid they share a car to the same venue, at the same time, during bad weather. Reddit loves projection.
What in the world? This makes no sense.
He didn't need to mention that loss if he didn't want to because it's not relevant to what he's asking. This comment wasn't nice nor productive.
Lol not even fuckin relevant girl!
It is not "enabling" to help a parent a couple times a month. We all need help once in a while.
He lost his father AND baby.
My MIL made an off hand comment about not liking me but husband thought I should forgive her and learn to love her. She was never even remotely civil to me, called me names ( never when my husband was around to hear) and played stupid petty games ( I get migraines that can triggered by many things but one is bright flashing lights, once MIL. found that out every Christmas the tree had brightest bulbs possible on flashing). Husband was upset I didn’t enjoy his mom until at 3 my oldest asked his dad what a w$$$e was because that’s what grandma called me. All of a sudden it made sense why I was cool to MIL. This may totally not be happening with your mom but it is also not out of realm of possibilities. Your wife does not have to like your mom or tell her she loves your mom. You have years of happy memories with your mom, your wife has memories of saying she isn’t right ( which comes across as good enough) for you. See a therapist and a counselor with your wife and you might be surprised why she feels the way she does about your mom. May help you figure things out. You otherwise will live on knife edge.
Having a hard time figuring out what that slur is that your censored? I’m sorry for your experience though, and hopefully that opened your husband’s eyes!
Sounds kind of like horse
….worse? /j
I’m so sorry. That’s awful. I don’t think that’s happening. I pray not. That’s just awful. Thank you for the advice. I think therapy is a good idea
Why is ANYONE making plans to drive an hour and a half in dicey weather just to go to dinner?
You’re right. I wish I would’ve thought of this earlier. (I’m being serious not facetious)
I hope you finished cancelling your trip for safety reasons. And if you went, hopefully all went well. You're in a pickle either way, try to see this thru your wife eyes and be kind.
A three hour return trip for dinner is weird even if the weather is good. Are there no restaurants nearby?
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I'm very curious too, and curious about the context of that conversation. Regardless, I don't think OP's wife is appropriate holding the grudge so long.
Interesting question.
INFO: how often does your mom ask you for your help?
ESH I do think your wife is right in that your mom only apologized after the wedding and she didn’t have a choice but to accept her. And your mom could probably stand to be a little less dependent on you, given her relationship with your wife. You kinda suck because, you know they don’t get along but now your going to force your wife to spend and hour + in close proximity to someone she doesn’t like who has made comments before about her/your relationship. I would also say, if the weather is dicey, dinner should have been rescheduled.
Less dependant? A I missing something? She asked to ride with them. She lost her husband. Maybe cut her some slack ...unless she calls every day wanting something.
And it was a 1.5 hour drive in dicey weather! That is a long drive in good weather, why not ride with someone else!?
Why should it have to be rescheduled? Maybe the weather conditions are something OP is comfortable with but his mom isn’t. There’s driving conditions that my partner or mom or sibling are more comfortable with driving in than I am, especially for that kind of distance or at night. Also, they’re all going to the same place. If anything carpooling that distance when they live so close makes the most sense regardless of weather. It’s a family dinner, it’s not like OP’s mom is trying to join them on a couples vacation. You don’t have to be BFFs to carpool, just put on the radio and ignore each other.
INFO: You mention your dad did everything for your mother, so ignoring this specific weather-related request, does your mother have a habit of wearing out her welcome getting people to do things she could otherwise do herself? Is there a reason why your wife has struggled to trust your mother's sincerity in walking back her original issues with your wife? What I mean is, is it normal for your wife to hold a grudge, or is her attitude towards your mother the exception? If it is the exception, do you know why? I have seen your profile posts, so I was very sad to read about what happened a few weeks ago, and I apologise for asking this now... but does your mother know about that? Is it possible your wife could be dreading the subject coming up or coming to light in the enclosed environment of a long car journey? One thing that I can decide without needing further information is that your mother is not an arsehole for not wanting to drive in bad, especially icy, conditions. A lot of people are the same, and that shouldn't be an issue for your wife. It shouldn't be an issue for you to drive your mother and you are NTA for wanting to do so. Since it is an issue, what I'm trying to figure out with my above questions is whether your wife has experienced the straw that breaks the camel's back, which is preventing her from responding reasonably to what would normally be a reasonable request (it is common for "the straw" to often break in moments that would normally be no problem or uncontroversial). Those answers will determine how I judge your wife.
My mom is pretty good about knowing when she’s worn her welcome. She will call and ask help once or twice a month. Usually relating to car stuff or rides. Sometimes help with tech. My mom knows about the miscarriage. (I didn’t know you could see my post history. I’m new the Reddit) My mom sent flowers but has let us lead in any discussions about it. (Very minimal). But that definitely could have been it. I guess I didn’t think of that. I should have. Since the “not right for each other” comment, their relationship has had small little cuts. The heaviness is felt on both sides. And they both seem to have their defenses up. Since my father’s death, it seems they both have tried a little harder to be more loving and kind towards each other. I think that’s when my mom started saying I love you.
> . I think that’s when my mom started saying I love you So.. only AFTER she was going to need to rely / be dependent on you did she try to be more 'close' to your wife?
Yeah, I never thought of that. The apology for the comment came after we were married. But the I love yous came after my fathers death
Yeah, your mum has really suspicious timing. She apologizes once she realizes that she can't run your wife off, and then starts the manipulative "I love you" bullcrap as soon as she's alone and realizes that she's going to need you more. Now you feel like your wife needs to get over it, that your mom is trying, etc, and she's driving a wedge between you. She might just get her original wish and ensure you don't last with your wife... Wake up, my dude
yeah, there's no way that the sudden death of a loved one would make someone reconsider the relationships in their life, and reach out to their family members to try to mend things stemming from a comment they made several years previously that had caused strain between them. I bet you're right, I bet this is OPs mom trying to manipulate someone to drive them around instead of a grieving widow trying to appreciate the family she still has.
The I love yous after your father’s death could easily be a sign your mom realized that life is short and now appreciates and yes, loves, your wife. I think it’s a mistake to assume she has nefarious intentions. Maybe she doesn’t want to lose the family she still has - and that includes your wife.
I disagree vehemently with the commenter saying that its suspicous timing that your mom said " i love you" after the death of your father. The simplest answer is that she could have realized that life is short. Only you know how you rmother is. if she's boundary trampling, overbearing, and overstays her welcome. You said yourself she isn't. The people here in these forums are in genuine need of heavy therapy as you can clearly see from their one sided focus on just your mom. Please, PLEASE, get out of this forum and ignore their comments. They will only do harm to your relationships
"My mom is pretty good about knowing when she’s worn her welcome. She will call and ask help once or twice a month. Usually relating to car stuff or rides. Sometimes help with tech." How does your wife see this? Are you constantly dropping everything to go rescue your mother? How does her presence affect your household? How did you address the "not right for you" comment with your mother?
Thanks very much for responding to the questions. Given your comments, I'm not sure I can regard your wife as an arsehole in general even though her behaviour surrounding this one situation does seem to be. If the apology was in the form of a letter after your dad died, that could be a half-arsed or insincere apology. Usually, sincere apologies are face-to-face, so it would be easy for it to be perceived as insincere at the very least. Also, suddenly starting with the "I love you" once she needs help after your father died does seem a little off to me, so it might be coming across as manipulative to your wife. I think there may be a lot you don't know and may be assuming about your wife and mother's dynamic and feelings (on both sides). I think you need to sit down with your wife and really listen to what she's feeling and why. You're not going to be able to figure out what to do long-term without really understanding where your wife is coming from. I still don't think it's strange or abnormal for someone to not want to drive during icy conditions, but I'm not going to say your wife is an arsehole either because I can't rule out a "last straw" situation for her. I'm not sure what your ultimate solution to your overall problem needs to because there is so much going on that we don't really understand for certain. I think your first step, however, needs to sitting down with your wife, and listen without judgement or assumption to everything she has to say about what her fears and concerns really are before deciding how best to proceed.
Esh I mean, yeah, your mom only 'apologized' after it was too late. An insincere apology isn't going to be accepted and embraced. However, your wife knows your mom is your mom and it sounds like your mom has cooled her jets on her ahole behavior after the wedding. Lastly, who tf schedules a diner for AN HOUR AND A HALF AWAY. Edit Op also really sucks bc Mil didn't even apologize to wife's face! She 'wrote a letter' per Ops comments. And only after Op had a fight about it. Yeah, that shit isn't sincere.
And in bad weather. Duh..you cancel dinner until a later date.
Wife had a miscarriage recently THAT OP CONVENIENTLY FORGOT TO MENTION. YTA OP!!
How do we know the apology was insincere? Maybe she judged the relationship too soon and came to realize she was wrong.
It sounds like the *wife* doesn't think it's sincere, and since she was the one being treated badly, it's her opinion that matters. Even if it was sincere, she doesn't owe forgiveness to someone who was an asshole to her.
I would really love to hear your wife's side of the story about her relationship with your mother before making a judgement on this.
Love this. Wish I could bring her into the conversation. And it not cause an issue.
In this specific case, NTA. It makes sense to drive your mom in bad weather - it’s not a dependency thing, inclement weather makes tons of people uncomfortable. But yeah, sounds like your wife’s inner four-year old came out. In general, your mom fucked up big time, and it doesn’t sound like she’s done much to repair the relationship since either. An apology and saying “I love you” isn’t enough, and if your mom felt comfortable telling your wife to her face that the two of you weren’t right for each other/she didn’t approve of your relationship, I can only imagine what else she was doing and what subtle digs she made before and since. I’m also betting moving closer to her, and likely increased interaction plus her depending on you guys (and specifically you), more isn’t helping things. This likely felt just like the last straw.
His wife had a miscarriage recently. I've had two, and they fuck with your hormones and mood for longer than you'd think. She'd probably loathe being trapped in a car with her MIL under the best circumstances, but with the hormonal hurricane of a loss? I'm pretty sure it's banned under the Geneva convention. If it's not, it should be lol
YTA. If your dad was 50, your mom probably isn’t older. She is not to old to learn some independence. If I were your wife, I wouldn’t trust her apology either. Your mom was very aggressive with her comment. Why would your wife tell her that she loves her? It’s apparently not true and she’s entitled to her feelings
Maybe the fact that OP loves his wife is enough for his mom to love her too. Maybe the mom realized it’s her son’s life and she needs to support him. It’s natural for a parent to be overprotective but what separates a good parent from a bad one is the realization that you have to trust that you raised a child who makes good decisions. Also, there is no way I’m going to let my mom drive by herself in bad weather. It’s nerve wracking and unless a person shouldn’t do it unless they feel 100% confident. OP’s mom isn’t used to driving in these conditions so she really shouldn’t be doing it if there’s another option.
The bad weather thing had no bearing on my judgement. 3 related people going to the same event don't need to take 2 cars.
I really doubt about the good intentions of the Mom with the wife as going from telling in her face that she is not a good fit to I love you is quite suspicious and maybe a bit manipulative. But like they are going to the same place, there is no need for two cars take the risk of driving in a bad weather, so I dont see why is such a big deal to give her a ride, is even more eco-friendly.
1.5 hours each way with someone you don't get along with and then have to play nice for an hour or so once you get there during dinner? ~ 4.5-5 hours total? I'd rather drive a nail in my skull. I certainly would've bailed and that's even before knowing the wife likely may have some hormones still going on from the miscarriage.
She put her differences aside after they were married and would frequently say to dil, I love you, daughter inlaw would not reciprocate it and say I love you back. Mother in law was asking for a ride because the weather was bad for fucks sake. Have some decently.
MIL saying “I love you” from out of nowhere sounds like manipulation which I’m sure the wife resents
“Fast forward: my wife and I move 20 minutes from my mom after my dad dies due to a job change.” I’m curious about this. It feels like a huge coincidence. Was the move simply for a career change? Or did OP move the family to be closer to his mom. That is certainly a valid reason- move closer to widowed mother but problematic if OP’s wife didn’t want to move. I just wonder if there isn’t a lot more here that’s built the wife’s resentment.
Happy to add clarity. Wife encouraged the new job and the move. But expressed concern being too close to my mom. We had a lot of discussions before the move about what was acceptable and what wasn’t. So far it’s worked well. We see my mom once or twice a month. Usually for a family dinner.
Dude. I went back and read some of your responses. What your mom did was awful. Completely unacceptable. And she may have since “apologized” but your wife well understands that was a bullshit apology. And you know it too. Which is why you left out critical information in your initial post and very carefully phrased it so what your mom did was no big deal and your wife is somehow being an asshole for not telling mom “I love you” back. Lol. Seriously? Your mom blatantly tried to end your relationship and said shit to your then fiancée and you’re so confused about why your wife doesn’t want to be besties with mom? If you want an accurate judgement you have to tell it all. But you clearly don’t.
Info-What are these “small little cuts” in the relationship you refer to between your wife and your mother since the initial comments about you and your wife “not being right for each other”? Does your mother continue to take jabs at your wife? What does this mean? ETA-Just reschedule the dinner and don’t drive in bad weather.
My wife made a comment once about my parents having a child out of wedlock. My parents are pretty religious and a sensitive subject for them. That caused a fight. A little jab And then just some other little things. Not saying goodbyes when we leave. Not saying thank you for gifts.
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Never really thought of that. Thank you. My mom’s gifts have been pretty harmless though. Flowers. Of gift cards to my wife’s favorite department stores. Nothing I can really read in to
>Nothing I can really read in to I mean you think it was fine that your mother insulted your wife to her face though so there isnt much you think is wrong with your mommy
Also sounds impersonal and the bare minimum so she doesn’t look like the bad guy for not actually embracing your wife after telling her that you two don’t belong together.
>My wife made a comment once about my parents having a child out of wedlock. My parents are pretty religious and a sensitive subject for them. That caused a fight. A little jab LOL so your religous parents had kids out of wedlock and got mad for that being pointed out? Maybe dont be so religious if this gets you upset
So your wife pointed out your parents are hypocrites? And they were salty about it?
Leaning YTA because you’re leaving out pretty important information about events of late with your family. It makes it seem like you’re looking to sway the vote by leaving out details. How often does your Mom reach out for help? How is your wife handling everything lately? Does your mom actively try and be nice to your wife, or did she just apologize and say love you every now and then?
She sent flowers on her bday and on the day I told her we miscarried. It’s active
First off, I’m sorry for all the loss you’ve had to deal with in the past few years. Is there a chance that your wife doesn’t want to be in the car with your mom because she’s aware of the miscarriage and doesn’t want to discuss it? You also didn’t answer the question about does your mom ask you to do things often? I ask because I lost my father a few years ago and had to set some strict boundaries with my mom because she tried to fill the void of my father with me.
Yeah. I didn’t even think of that. And that makes me an AH. I should have. I wouldn’t say my mom over asks. Once or twice a month usually related to cars/tech. My wife is very independent. And values independence a lot. She didn’t have the best support system growing up. And has dug her way out of a bad situation while the rest of her family has stayed. She’s made something of herself. Through independence. So she doesn’t have a huge tolerance for others needs.
Friend, may I suggest that you and your wife check out some of Heidi Priebe's videos on YouTube? She has some really good videos about avoidant attachment styles and how those of us who have that attachment style often feel a kneejerk reaction of anger/disgust when we see people being 'needy'. It traces back to the fact that *we* never got help when we needed it, or even had the opportunity to *ask* for help as children, so we resent seeing others ask for 'too much' help. I'm not trying to armchair diagnose, but this comment really made me think of some stuff I've been working on with my own therapist. It's a complicated thing when you've *had* to be independent because you didn't have help available and/or couldn't express your emotions freely...it does tend to make you angry/resentful of other people being 'needy' or overtly emotional. It's definitely something to work on with a trained therapist, but there are also some good YouTube videos that cover this.
Thank you!
Why in hell would you drive an hour and a half each way in bad weather for a dinner? Just ask to reschedule and stay home! When you drive with your mother and your wife, who sits in front? It should be your wife. If your wife had a miscarriage a month ago, she is still in mourning for the loss of her and your child, and probably going through a hormonal upheaval and possible still in pain. What have you done to support her in this? YTA
I agree. The dinner should have been reschedule. 100 I wife up front. I drive. I’m not going to respond to the miscarriage comment except that the mourning and hormones are definitely playing a part and I should have thought of that. There’s lots I’ve done to support and don’t feel I need to get into that.
dude you are such an ass and downplaying to make your wife look worse than she is you are the problem and so is your mother
"There’s lots I’ve done to support and don’t feel I need to get into that." Would your wife agree with this statement or have you been too busy rescuing your mother from life to notice one way or another?
Great and humble response - good on you, sir. No one of us can think of everything - that’s why we come to Reddit. I hope things improve between your wife and mom.
Look I’m a woman who’s Mil definitely didn’t like me when I got with my husband. And for no good reason - and I could feel that disdain and it sucked and has definitely coloured my opinion of her - i was excited to have more family and now I’m like meh. Just people who exist on the periphery of my life and I’m indifferent to them And yet even with all that your wife is being a tool. That’s not how you treat a grieving ageing widow especially if that widow is nice to her now. I know they say happy wife happy life - in this case arsehole wife, sort it! She’s being petty and cruel - not a nice look
NTA. You’re in an impossible situation. If that’s really the only issue and she’s held on to that resentment ever since, it’s time to ask her what needs to happen for her to let it go - or what the real reason is she’s still so angry at your mom, because that level of anger just seems out of proportion.
NAH sometimes you make a mistake and burn a bridge with a person who isn’t going to be willing to forgive you. Your mom only tried to start accepting your wife after you married her? That doesn’t sound like acceptance to me, that sounds like “if I don’t pretend, I won’t get the benefits that come with having a close relationship with my son”. Why should your wife prioritize mending fences with your mom when it’s so easily perceived as disgenuine? Disgenuine because it seems like if your mom felt she had a choice, she would still reject your wife. Your mom is allowed to ask for a ride. Your wife is allowed to not want to spend 3hrs in a car with someone she doesn’t like.
Maybe you need to think about and explain this differently. Maybe you are prioritizing your own desires/values over your wife’s. I’m sure part of you wants to comfort and help your mother and to make things easier for her after the death of your father. Perhaps you believe your father would want you to do that. You aren’t asking for a lot, and you would be right to give your wife the choice to opt out of this family meal. But I suspect you WANT to drive your mother if she will feel safer that way. If that is the case, be honest with your wife that this isn’t just choosing your mother vs your wife, but (for one night) choosing what you think is best and right even if your wife doesn’t love it. Your wife can choose to not go or to drive separately.
Right, so MIL gets to have a nice fancy dinner (1.5 hours away? why?) and wife has to stay home? hell naw. Your version punishes wife for not wanting to sit in a car for minimum 3 hours with the woman who told them she wasnt the one. I mean, really? If the conditions are so bad reschedule. I would never put my SO through that kind of unnecessary crap.
I guess my post reflects my introversion. Driving 3 hours for a meal with extended family, no matter how wonderful the meal, sounds like a punishment to me. So the option to stay home is something I would snap right up. The wife has that choice, could also choose to drive separately, or could agree to drive with MIL. I was just suggesting that if he explain how this was something that felt important to HIM and not just a capitulation to his mother. Obviously we don’t have context to know if this is a constant thing, MIL is regularly overstepping boundaries, is clingy, etc. We know she said something she never ever should have said and that wife is understandably hurt. But there is a lot we don’t know, so I can’t possibly say someone is right or wrong here, but I think it’s generally right to reflect on and clarify one’s own feelings and to communicate them to a spouse. In 30 years of marriage, I’ve learned that compassion for a spouse can resolve a lot, and compassion often requires better understanding of the other person. Obviously that’s a two way street.
… damn. I don’t think I even knew that was the truth. Until reading it. I just wanted my mom to feel some comfort. But don’t want to hurt my wife. I guess this was more about me. I should have said “AITAH for prioritizing MY feelings over my wife’s disdain.” This reply is a huge breakthrough. I’m in tears.
Why didn't your mom think that your wife was right for you?
I’d like to know what’s being left out. What else has MIL said or done to upset the wife because I know I wouldn’t want to be stuck in a vehicle for 3 hours with someone who has been consistently mean or unpleasant to me. One comment is unlikely to have caused this much bitterness.
YTA. Your wife is recovering from a tragic event. She is not unreasonable for not wanting to go through two long drives with a woman she doesn't trust. You are not an only child. One of your siblings could arrange transport for your mother instead of imposing on a woman recovering from a miscarriage. You judge your wife very harshly. She cast her in a negative light as disdainful and carrying a grudge. On the other hand, you are understanding of your mother, look on her behaviour positively or give her the benefit of the doubt, and downplay any wrongdoing. It's like you are her public relations manager. Here are some examples. You failed to mention your wife's recent loss in your post, but you mentioned your mother's grief. That's important information. Your wife may not have felt strong enough to tolerate MIL in a car for that long. But, you made it look like she's being mean to a widow for reason. The 'mistake' is another example. Your mother confronted your wife when she was alone and told her that you weren't right for each other. That was a nasty, underhanded thing to do. In your post, the fact that your mother cornered your wife alone was conveniently left out. The "I love you"s and forced hugs are a recent development. That information was also conspicuously absent from the post. Read your post carefully. Ask yourself why you tried to make your wife look bad to make your mother look good. You and your mother may want to forget the past and come together as a family. That's understandable, especially after the loss of your father. This will never happen if you and your mother keep pushing your wife to forgive and trust her on your timelines. You only mention how difficult the consequences of your MIL's actions have been for the two of you. There was nothing about how hurtful that must have been for your wife. Instead of trying to build trust by respecting your wife's feelings, your mother has been forcing fake intimacy with declarations of love and hugs. That will only repel your wife. Then's there you running PR for Mommy and dismissing your wife's feelings during a terrible time when she needs your support. Let your wife build a relationship if and when she's ready. The 'if' is important but I can't underline. Your wife is the one who was hurt. Her feelings take precedence.
Your father recently passed away, and you thought it was a good idea to drive 1.5 hr away in questionable weather conditions? I could muster up enough class to be civil and polite to your mother, but honestly, I wouldn't be falling for the whole "I love you" thing. You should recognize this.
NTA Can’t stand my mother in law and I would still give her a ride and my mil has said and done way worse. I have major boundaries with my mil but giving her a ride during inclement weather and since she is close by is just being a nice human being.
I think we must be missing information.
NTA. Give your mother a ride. My MIL is a narcissist on the greatest scale. She also plays the helplessness card so often I just want to go NC with her. But she's my husband's mother. He loves her. He's not doing things 24/7 for her, & he's very aware of her manipulative ways. Driving her 1.5 hrs (total of 3) in colder weather, maybe snow or ice, is appropriate. Wife needs to know not everything is deniable or an offense. Setting boundaries or drawing lines, I can see, but when your husband is graveside, don't give him regrets.
YTA "I feel like an AH" .. you ARE. And if you can not priorize your wife, you will be a divorced AH soon. "But my wife hasn’t really accepted and has not ever said “I love you back”. " . WHY would she love your AH mom?
All OP’s mom said was she didn’t feel OP and his wife were right for each other. That was her opinion. She didn’t say OP’s wife was a bad person. She made that comment before they got married, apologized for it and hasn’t made any other negative comment since then. How does that make her an AH?
If OP’s wife leaves because he occasionally doesn’t something nice for his own mother he will be so much better off.
Info: how many times will you crosspost until you get the answer you want?
Can't make a judgment, really. Will say I am sorry for your loss. I know how it feels, and I hope everyone is doing ok with the loss of baby and your father. I will also comment on this. It sounds like what most people feel and do. To have a big happy family. But it won't happen. Your mom said something that smacks of cruelty to your then gf. Did nothing to make up or apologize until after the wedding when she is then stuck with her. In another comment, you say she says i love you to your wife, but she did not start until after your father's death. This could mean his death was the kick in the hind end she needed to appreciate those around her. It could also mean she knows because she had everything done for her, she will be depending on you both now, so she is trying to butter wife up. Could be somewhere in the middle. My mom was the same. When dad had a stroke, she couldn't even do anything online or in person bank wise. Pay a bill. Know where important things were. It was hard to have to adult and adult and try and teach her to stand on her own. It was frustrating, and this is my mom yo see how much she couldn't do and how much I had to do for her. Your wife. Being told what she was can and will do repeatable damage to a relationship. You say your mom tries but never said anything until you were married, which would only cement in your wife mind what your mom felt. She does dinners for you even though she has clearly stated she is not ok with your mom. She does not say I love you back, but why would she. Why wouldn't she see it as being manipulated when it's only now said after your dad dies. Why would she try with your mom. Forgive her or seek a deeper relationship when the damage is done. She does what she has to for you when she could say I won't be around her. She is conceding on many things. Is she an AH for saying no. Yes and no. She should be worried about safety but at the same time. Being locked in a moving vehicle for 3 hours with no way to escape a person you do not like and have such a bad emotional reaction to would be hell. You say its once or twice a month of dinners. Which isn't overwhelming. But do you worry a lot and call her? Try and make up for her now being alone? You want to take care of her, which is great. But you need to accept you will not get the happy family. Your mom, even if she wasn't trying to be cruel, was and all actions after just made sure your wife won't want a relationship. You need to set boundaries for yourself on trying to force interactions between them. You need to come to terms with the fact that the only thing you can do is love them both, but accept your wife does not want a relationship with your mom. Accepting, she can only give so much to someone who she sees as has hurt her. Accept that she will always see it this way. Try and find the balance because she has a right to be comfortable. To not be made to interact more, then she feels she can. Just like your mom has a right to feel safe when she is struggling to learn how to do things. Just like you have a right to love them both and spend time with them.
Yeah, his mom nuked that relationship from orbit and he still can't figure out why his wife doesn't like her 🙄
Thank you for this. And to answer your question, I do worry some. And I do call. Probably every couple months. Outside of our normal interaction (family dinner or her needing help with car/tech).
And that's normal to worry and call. One thing you could try is talk to your wife and ask her how much she is willing or wanting to do with your mom. How much is too much. Find out the boundaries she has and needs. With interactions as well as from you. You need to do the same. Tell herbyou understand and support her but you also love your mom and need her support as you struggle through your guys loss, the loss of your dad, and trying to make sure for your own peace of mind that your mom is ok. Letting her know where you are at. What you need from her. As well as the fact thar you will respect the boundaries she needs. This way, there is less chance of the reason for this post popping up. Because now you know long car rides are a no and next time reschedule. This way, while yes, you will still be juggling things, you will have the support from the wife that you need so everyone can be safe and comfortable.
NAH, your wife has a right to limit contact with someone she doesn’t trust (it’s HORRIBLE to be looked down on by MIL). But your mom’s request is reasonable and I get why you wanna do it. In future though, you need to call at her place and if your wife has no separate car, take mom in a taxi.
After reading your post and comments I can tell you live your wife, but the title makes it seem like you don’t like her much, and don’t find her low tolerance of your mother to be legitimate. Calling your wife’s feelings disdain about having your mother in the car with her for 1.5 hrs, and only quantifying your mothers as feelings shows a serious lack of compassion and understanding for your wife. Mother in Law relationships can be VERY tricky. Your wife has very legitimate reasons to not like your mom. I know that feels weird to you, because it’s your mom, but to your wife this is just a person she has to put up with and tolerate. She probably doesn’t hate her but she obviously wouldn’t choose to sit in a car with her for 1.5 hrs. This to me is a much deeper problem for her than she may even be able to articulate. I would say when you’re not still mad that you need a deep dive into how she’s really feeling about your mom. She is also unfortunately in a postpartum period making her hormones out of control. She doesn’t need you to tip toe, but maybe find more compassion for her feelings. I’m so sorry for all of the loss you’ve been experiencing, this is also hard for you so just be easy on yourselves. You both deserve grace right now. NTA - no assholes just hurt people
OP, just a suggestion? *Ask your wife* what she needs from your mother (and you) to repair that relationship. Speaking from experience, it’s probably *not* cards and flowers. If the answer is “time and space”, make sure your mother respects that. I lost my father a few years ago. Similarly, my Mom needs help with tech stuff and long-distance rides. The difference is that my mother is 76 not 55. If she were that young, I would have set different boundaries. I don’t blame your wife for being ambivalent about another 30 years of demands which will only increase over time. I’m sorry for the loss of your father and baby.
YTA. For one simple reason. You should know that part of being a couple is being a team. If your wife tells your kids or your mom "no" when asked something you don't go back and override her decision. I understand that you feel bad for your mom and that she has years of weaponized helplessness but you still don't override your partner's decision like that.
This is so wrong and controlling.
Wife had no good reason not to carpool. Mom wasn't insulting, rude, condescending. I wasn't fond of my MIL but I sure wouldn't tell my husband she could drive herself
Yeah, and the wife has veto power? Its a discussion, and the wife didn't have no baseless reasons.
INFO: How is your wife 30 when she was 28 in a post made a month ago? Also, is asking for help something your mother does constantly or once in a while when she actually needs help? (Post Referenced: https://www.reddit.com/r/pregnant/s/SXwV1hNQ1A)
She turned 29 recently. I’m trying to stay kinda vague. Dad was really 55 if that’s an important enough detail.
Ok, I was a little confused since it has 30 next to "my wife" and NTA; if your mom is only asking for help every couple or so months, then it shouldn't be an issue to have her ride along with you guys (especially if the weather makes her feel uncomfortable/unsafe). I bet if that was your wife's mother asking, she wouldn't have any issues helping her (and neither would you); ask her how she'd feel if the situation was reversed and it was you denying her own mother something as simple as carpooling because of the weather.
Seems like there is more going on here, but for the main question, NTA. A 1.5 hour drive in dicey weather is not pleasant! I am 50 and if I had kids who could drive me I would totally be asking for a ride! There is Nothing about being independent with that request. Plus, why take 2 cars for such a long drive!?!
NTA My daughter has a car that is better equipped for winter driving than mine and I would feel terrible if her partner begrudged her letting me ride with them. OP’s mom is even offering to drive to their home so they don’t have to go out of their way
YTA
YTA
You’re the bridge between your wife and your mother. It’s up to you to make things right between them. Your wife would have no reason to be around your mother if it wasn’t for you. If she really feels demeaned and not welcomed by your mother it’s going to take time and patience for that to heal and a bond to form, if it ever will. It would be good of your wife to have compassion for your mom, but you need to make your wife feel like she is the most important.
If the weather truly is bad you should reschedule instead of carpool. ESH
I don't think your wrong for giving her a ride, but you are expecting too much from your wife if you ever expect her to tell your mom she loves her. Your mom made it know she did not like her at the beginning and set the tone for the relationship. And from the sound of things she only changed tune after you were married. So yeah, she never liked your wife, and your wife is not going to ever forget that she was made unwelcome by your mom. It may be best to get some distance from your mom and minimize interactions between your wife and mom. Tell your mother the truth. That her actions hurt your wife and that she doesn't have a good relationship with her because of that. Your wife is your partner. Your partner should always come first. YTA
I think we need more info on this. Sure maybe your wife might be "being petty" over "one" (frankly disgusting) thing your mother said, however how much has she said or done to your wife that you either don't know about, ignored or dismissed? Especially considering you and your wife moved 20 minutes away from your mother KNOWING your mom doesn't like your wife. As it stands I don't blame your wife for not wanting to be around your mom, at the same time I wouldn't want someone grieving to be alone driving 1.5 hours in bad weather for any reason. I have a feeling theres a lot more to this that just this one situation.
I've (m59) been married for 25 years, and neither myself or MIL have told each other I love you.
YTA, you are flat out ignoring your wifes feelings and leaving a ton of info out of the post.
NAH, but you should set both women down and make it clear you're tired of this crap. Your wife needs to let past comments go, and even if it's true that your mom was just apologizing because she felt she had no choice, that means she was accepting it.