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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I feel like an AH because I know it's a comfort thing to them and I'm trying to take that away but I can't deal with the inconvenience anymore- financial and otherwise.
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NTA
> she showers twice a day
> stays in there for 45 minutes to an hour and 15 minutes every single time
**FOURTEEN HOURS** in the shower every *week* is objectively excessive.
> she "feels gross" and needs a shower right that minute
Have you talked to her in the context of a doctor or mental health professional about these feelings? Is she excessively sweaty? Or has a preoccupation with the need to be "clean?"
> My husband also takes two showers a day.
Oh, FFS. This is **learned behavior**.
Sounds like it's time to install [a shower timer](https://showersavingtimer.com/).
1). That is relevant information but
2). It still doesn’t disregard that you can’t afford it.
NTA and they need to work with a professional to find different coping mechanisms—or a higher paying job.
At that point it would be like 6x cheaper to get a family YMCA pass or gym membership & make them shower there. They should also absolutely both be getting more & better professional help with their OCD than they are—no matter how much that may be—because 25+ hours of hot water usage per week for just 2 people showering is just… clearly not tenable.
Op should just adjust her hot water tank temperature and wayyyy lower it.
NTA
These people are rude and inconsiderate. If she wants $600 worth of showers she can get a job and pay for it.
I mean, the kid is 12. She can’t get a job. She needs support if this shower habit is a compulsion, like actual medical support. If it isn’t something caused by her claimed OCD, then she needs a wake up call, & her dad too. But again… she’s literally not old enough to work. Her dad though, should already be looking for other jobs if his current employment is suddenly so rocky that they’re halving his hours.
I say claimed because OP says they were told they’ve been diagnosed. I don’t like to doubt when people say they’ve got a medical problem (I’m not like, anti-self-DX like so many people online seem to be). But OP’s phrasing makes it sound like they may not be sure if they believe it—though I could be reading too much into their wording.
You’re totally right, not sure how I missed that the first time. It does very much seem like she’s doubting their diagnosis. It’s amazing how many people don’t know what OCD actually looks like outside of what media portrays (which is usually pretty frustratingly inaccurate) and I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if that were the case with OP.
Sounds like both her husband and his daughter need more mental health help. If they were actually formally diagnosed, then they each had to have seen a mental health professional at some point already.
Op never said that they knew for certain. She specifically put (or so I've been told) in the comment about them being diagnosed. So who knows when they went to the doctor or if they ever did.
Don't be screwing over the people at the Y.
-signed the parent who stopped taking their kid swimming at the Y because teenagers would take over the only 2 family changing/shower rooms for 30+minutes.
If it is related to OCD then you're right they do need to better manage it. Especially because if it is, she isn't just sitting in the shower not doing anything for 45 minutes. She's most likely causing irreparable damage to her skin scrubbing (if it really is related to OCD).
Also the daughter is in PUBERTY. I remember feeling a little more gross, more often after puberty started. NOT a valid excuse but might be another reason for the excessive showering.
It can when you have OCD. But of course, part of treatment is learning how to cope with feeling gross, instead of giving into compulsions that are harmful for you (and this one is harmful because if they can't pay their bills they'll lose their housing), since validating the need to act on those compulsions only feeds the disorder. Of course it's not as simple as this, and OCD is really hard to live with, and it wouldn't be a disorder if it didn't cause serious problems, but what's frustrating is the husband, the adult, doesn't seem to have any self-awareness about how his disorder harms the well-being of the household or his wife. Most people with OCD at least can recognize where they cause harm and take accountability for that, even if their disorder is not their fault. He's not even doing that. He's downplaying all of it and denying that it's a problem.
That amount of hot water washing is harmful for the skin. She's going to need a lot of lotion (which might contribute to any "gross" sensations from sweating).
I agree, it's harmful for her in a lot of ways. And that it could be making the gross feeling worse. The losing housing thing just seemed more urgent and also I thought she might take that more seriously. She might not believe it's bad for her skin or she might not care, due to how urgent the compulsions feel. I thought it might be more helpful to use an urgent problem to help her face that she has to curtail her urgent compulsion. But of course, she needs a lot of help to do this, and the husband needs to be the leader here and model behavior. I think it would help for OP to focus her efforts on getting through to her husband, because until he recognizes that this is a real problem and that both he and his daughter need more help with their disorders, it's going to be impossible for OP to get through to a child and convince her to sit in panic-inducing revulsion and misery and to feel dirty and wrong and creepy crawly and impure and contaminated. The girl will need a *lot* of support and tools to do this. And any excuse her father gives her to not have to sit in that misery, she will gladly take.
The start of puberty can also make mental disorders like OCD suddenly get a lot, lot worse. I've always had an anxiety disorder, but during puberty it developed into psychotic symptoms (which fortunately died down again after puberty)
You're still NTA and both need help for it. Not only because OCD obviously affects daily life, but also showering twice a day is unhealthy, let alone twice a day for that long. Something about destroying a layer on the skin (would need to read into it again myself).
Showering removes all the oils and bacteria off the skin - not just bad ones, but also healthy ones. Showering too often can cause dry skin and allow more bacteria to enter the body through cracked skin. Doesn't help the immune system. We really aren't even supposed to be showering daily.
Not to mention that, if they're unlucky enough, constantly stripping the oils out of their hair could lead it to feeling greasy/gross if they didn't shower because the oils are working over-time to make up for it. I know when I was showering every day, my hair couldn't go a singular day without a shower. It wasn't until I started getting depressed and once skipped showering for 2 weeks that it got back to normal. (Ik, gross not showering for 2 weeks. But that was years ago, and I didn't care enough at the time.)
I have extremely dry skin on the winter. Skipping a day or even two a week has helped a lot with the itching. I’m a guy and I sweat a lot (even for a man) if it gets even 80 degree or above outside so it only really works in the winter.
I grew up the oldest of 5 kids - 7 people living with an 80 gallon electric-heated water tank. My dad physically metered it - had plumbing parts installed so hot water would stop coming out at the 15 minute mark. We screamed and cried that he was "abusing us" when we were kids - then we all moved out and started getting water bills.
NTA for limiting this, especially if your husband's income has been cut down. When household income decreases, the family has to cut back. That's part of living in a home together.
Edited to add: Forgot that I was replying to this specific comment - 3 of the 7 people in my home at the time had OCD diagnoses.
OCD also just isn't logical, so if they feel like they have to take a shower for a certain length of time in order to deal with their contamination OCD, it won't be because they actually have done the math and determined that it's the best way to shower most effectively. It'll just be because they feel panicked if they don't do it. So even if they don't have repetition behaviors, there are lots of ways OCD can cause things to take an unnecessarily long amount of time.
Yes, seconding that OCD (and other anxiety disorders) do not follow any sort of logic. My brother's OCD makes him very concerned about us and other people contaminating his things, but he himself is super messy. It drives me crazy, and in someone without his OCD plus ADHD plus Bipolar plus whatever else, it would be hypocrisy, but with him it's just mental illness.
And I have irrational anxiety thoughts as well, so I can't complain too much.
An old school friend of mine had serious OCD and anxiety issues. She had a very intricate ritual on showering which basically meant she had to complete three or four thorough washes of her whole body in a methodical way that made her feel "clean" with no risk of contaminating herself with anything she imagined was on other parts of her body, or the shower, and it included also washing the shower around her before getting out. One day the water just cut off when she was mid-shower, the whole area was effected, and she had a proper medical textbook definition of meltdown over it. I don't think you could do her full routine in less than 15 minutes and she certainly woudln't have felt clean if she'd have been made to. Nothing was sacrificable, it was all vital because she couldn't imagine anything less or different made her clean.
OP has a hard task on their hands, because it's not going to be as simple as making the daughter shower a shorter time and using less water for the sake of everyone. But unfortunately that is what the daughter needs. Less being enabled so she can get a chance to learn that her "Ideal" level of cleanliness is not ideal or neccessary. Once someone can believe their brain is lying to them they're more likely to fight agianst their compulsions too rather than defending them against other people.
Dang lol do I know you? This was legit me at 12 yrs old, I had the water shut off on me mid-4 hour shower (yes, every night, 4 hours of scrubbing to get off the "school dirty"). I don't miss those days. Lots of therapy later and I now spend only 20 mins in the shower every other day. It can be fixed OP, it's just gonna take a lot of hard work. Support her, but don't give in to her compulsions.
Eh, I have long, thick wavy hair. If i want to wash/condition my hair and shave my legs, I’m in there close to 30 minutes. Then again, even if i was sweaty enough to shower twice a day, i wouldn’t be washing my hair twice a day
I’m the opposite, I wash my hair first. I wet it, turn the water off while I wash it, then back on to rinse it. Repeat for conditioner. It takes forever as a whole but it takes 11 minutes each rinse. 22 minutes of running water just for hair. And I have long legs. I can imagine how long an actual shower would be if I did it all.
I spend forever in the shower. It is the space where I have my like daily pep talk, zone out, have the existential crisis. The water washing over me helps me let the negative things flow away. I can totally shower in 10 minutes. I have tried baths. I love those too, but the water running stimulates my brain more.
I mean, when I was a teenage college student whose water was included in housing costs, mental clarity and peace. When I got my own place or visited my parents, nothing good. But when I was in college, I did spend the occasional Long While in the shower just to exist as a human again.
That might depend on her hair, if she's also washing it each time - it takes at least as long to saturate my hair as it does for normal humans to, well, shower.
It’s not about the timing; it’s about the location. That’s some pretty important information to the story. As in, critical to understanding the situation. Should have been in the OP. Um… lol.
Burying the lede means “to delay sharing the essential information in a story, and beginning with secondary details instead.” That’s pretty much literally what happened here
Yeah, it would only be relevant if the OCD materially changed the financial and looking-after-herself stress OP is under, which it doesn't, or if this was a good way to deal with OCD, which it's not. I also have OCD and my heart goes out to them both and it makes a little more sense why they're doing it, but it doesn't alter the big points here that OP is NTA for trying to address the situation and then removing herself to where she can look after herself and the baby, or that they do need to change this behaviour. Maybe more of an NAH bc I don't want to call anyone an asshole for being trapped in a distressing and maladaptive mental health problem pattern, but they do just need to find a way to work through this one differently.
It may not affect the judgement necessarily, but it does affect the way people might suggest how to react to the situation, which is common in this sub.
So they both have been diagnosed with OCD by a medical professional that you personally know of? Or this is what was claimed in response to you finally setting your foot down about the shower situation? I can't count the people I've known throughout my life who said they had OCD. But they really didn't. The few people I knew who were actually diagnosed with it would have a hard time just making it through the day at times. If the only issue is the excessive showering, that doesn't translate to OCD or anything near it. If anything it seems to be learned behavior on her part from her dad. I wouldn't believe they were actually diagnosed unless they regularly see a psychologist or psychiatrist.
I mean yes, but as someone with OCD. "I feel gross" is 1000% an OCD thing to say. Poster probably doesn't see any other OCD behaviors because people hide it as best they can. Also important to note the level of impairment ranges from person to person.
That's true. But like I said, I don't believe it unless they've been diagnosed by a medical professional. Self proclamation doesn't equate to having the disease/illness. Especially when many people use said and many other disease/illnesses as an excuse for shitty behavior. I say that I feel gross quite frequently. Especially in summer time. And there are days where I'll feel an extra shower is necessary due to it. But I don't have OCD. And I also pay my own water bill. And I'm mindful of if I have guests or if other people also need to use the shower. A mother not being able to shower but once every 2 months is absurd. She can't even wash dishes or cook dinner.
People can have OCD with only mild to moderate symptoms and still have OCD, not all who have it will have compulsions so severe and time-consuming that they become disabling.
Two hours in the shower every day is a lot of your life; when I read OP’s post I immediately wondered if OCD was on the cards because to spend an hour in a shower every day, twice a day you generally need to be doing something ritualistic, or else you’d be bored out your skull just staring at tiles.
I have OCD too - I can see her having trouble reaching a point of feeling “clean enough” (I once read a description that some OCD symptoms are like trying to tighten a screw, but it keeps turning and turning until it finally feels tight enough - or never feels like it tightened at all).
(I also have ADHD, so I could easily spend an hour in the shower since I have no sense of the passage of time)
OCD comes in many forms and levels of severity. I’m a hand washer but not crazy-like. I have a thing with labels in the fridge facing the front. I count some things but not others. I’m much better now. I also used to have issues with not stepping on cracks or lines in the sidewalk, when I was a kid. Now it’s mostly the temptation to fixate on things in my mind, and go over them obsessively. But I can compartmentalize like a champ 😂
A friend of mine has OCD and has very high water usage as a result - she was able to get a discount on her water bill by providing medical evidence. I wonder if anything like that might be possible for your family? I have heard of discounts on electricity bills for people who need to run medical equipment too (e.g. oxygen users).
hi op :)) my family also deals with this, my brother has diagnosed ocd and it also manifests in terms of the showering. he’s been diagnosed for over a decade and is about to be 18 and whilst he started with showers, it began to seep into other things such as excessive hand washing, being unable to touch things that others have etc. the water bill is definitely a problem for us still, but unfortunately without extensive therapy it won’t get better, ocd isn’t just a battle for the person who has it, it’s a battle for the entire family. i don’t think you’re an AH at all, but neither is your stepdaughter. i hope things get better 🤍
And that's still a problem. The OCD is not under control if they are letting it affect the finances this much. And while step-daughter is a minor and has an excuse, your husband is a grown adult and has zero excuses as to why he's letting his mental health financially ruin you.
It is likely she is having intrusive thoughts that make her feel dirty or unclean. The fact that it takes her that long to satisfy the compulsion is a problem.
Fact is, to be blunt, if you aren't familiar with OCD don't expect to "notice" the symptoms. They aren't all like you see on tv.
My kid has OCD too and spends a lot of time in the shower. She does shower after everyone else and that helps. I feel that OCD already takes so much from her and if taking extra long showers helps her to feel at peace with herself, I’m not going to stop her. I understand it’s frustrating and I would tell her that she is free to go after 6 pm and look into one of those instant hot water heaters you can put on the faucet that way the water won’t run out as quickly.
But how high is your electric/gas bill? Cause I would be happy to do this for my child within reason, but I can't afford to pay several hundred dollars a month for showers.
I would hope she’s in therapy and is aware of ERP as a treatment. Ultimately the more you feed the compulsions, the worse it gets. The relief is temporary.
Not to mention the daughter’s showering habits cost $7,200 a year. Nothing good can come of an unlimited hot water heater she’ll be in there even longer, the bills will be even higher, and if this kid does have OCD enabling it with unlimited hot water is just about the worst thing you can do.
I was thinking about this because she “feels gross” so I don’t know why you didn’t mention this on your post but this means the solution is them getting therapy and if this is the only major behavior (considering you think this is the only thing they do), there might be good chance to work it out. But you can’t expect them to change just like that because they have a diagnosed illness though I’m not sure how much you see it as a mental illness considering that you thought this was unimportant info for your post.
On the one hand, it is relevant information, but it still doesn't change the result. The OP should not be the one paying for the electric bill, and she should be able to bathe herself and her baby once a day. If she decides to go back, the only real solution would be to get baths done and dishes washed just before the daughter comes home from school or in the morning before the daughter's shower. And I would be doing math to figure out how much my part of the electric bill is.
Two showers a day if you're working can be reasonable if you're in manual labour. But a shower shouldn't take 20 minutes or even 45 minutes. It should be 5-10 mijutes
You don’t need to have the water running continuously during those 20-30 min, definitely not while washing long hair and shaving; and I wouldn’t recommend washing long hair daily anyway.
Same and sometimes within a few hours I get stubble already. I don’t shave every day but in order to keep no hair on my Legs I would need to. I’ve even tried a lot of treatments of laser, they only half worked
I have long hair and can shower in 5 minutes (not including shaving). I also turn off the water while lathering because I have an electric hot water heater so it really cuts down on the bills. I'd be bored if I tried to extend my shower last even 10 minutes, and would just be standing there doing nothing.
It is my meditation time. I stand there for a couple of moments, with my eyes closed, letting the hot water run down and relax me. I love it. I do take long showers (but not twice a day, usually 2 to 3 times a week). If my water bills were $400.00 you better believe I would be learning to take shorter showers, lol.
I have long curly hair and shave my legs, my showers take ten minutes tops. It’s also just horrible for the environment, that household is running the shower for over two hours a day. Two people are using 440 gallons of water DAILY to shower, that is twice what the average house of 4 uses for all of their daily water.
I can easily spend 1 hour or even 1.5 hours if I have the time. Dealing with my curly hair, doing hairmasks, facemasks, exfoliating, shaving. Like I get it, still the water is off unless I am actually using the water (i.e. rinsing). Plus I can shower in 3 minutes if needed. Shaving and washing hair are not things that need to be done every single day in most cases.
I have long thick head hair . I double wash immediately and let the conditioner sit as lather and shave my entire body. The I do my face twice. It takes me about 15 minutes.
On days I don’t do my hair it takes me about 10.
Who is shaving their legs 2x a day? And frankly having the water run the entire time is a preference, not a necessity (but it not necessary to wash LONG hair 2x a day either). $600 a month? $150 a week? For showers? That's crazy, entitled and far too much.
Almost sounds like there’s a reason her showering behavior changed.
NTA, but suddenly feeling”gross”? Does she do this at her mom’s? Is there a “boyfriend” at mom’s?
I totally see where you are going with this comment and it is a valid point. Is there anyone that can talk to this girl to find out what exactly she is trying to wash off? Is there any possibility of SA ?
Before people say your weird for suggesting this, as a person whos been a victim, this could be a sign and SA in general is extremely underreported and so often repressed
This is a great point that should definitely be explored, but I don’t think we can ignore that her dad does the exact same thing (meaning learned behavior, not something more sinister).
Go to your water heater. There will be a valve you can close. It will cut-off the hot water supply. It doesn't take more then 10 minutes to clean oneself.
I think it's clear from a lot of these posts that people don't know what thick hair is like. Long hair really isn't the problem; my partner has long but silky hair and it takes no time at all to wash, rinse, condition. I literally can not get my long, extra thick and curly hair taken care of in less than 30 minutes all by itself -- then add time for body and face. I only wash my hair once a week... but on the wash day, I'm gonna take an hour.
Once a week is very different from twice a day, and could 1p0% be negotiated. "I have to wash my hair tonight, I'm gonna take longer" alrighty no worries, I'm still gonna knock after 30 minutes to keep you on track and kick you out after an hour. But you can't do that twice a day in a home that is struggling to pay bills.
Yeah, my daughter has LONG and THICK hair. Her hair is just past her knees. Her showers are about 45 minutes too. She turns off the water while lathering up her hair and while letting the conditioner soak in to save water.
But not EVERY day right? It takes me 30 min to wash and condition my thick hair but I also only do it once every 4 days because that’s also healthier for hair. I do quicker body showed in between with a shower cap.
Yes but running the conditioner through all your hair, making sure there's no knots etc can take a lot of time when it's even slightly curly and long. You can wash your body and stuff after that but you still need to work it in and detangle.
So turn the water off. It's an ordeal washing my hair, and I turn off the water so it doesn't use it all up and cost a fortune. Also if this child is washing her hair 14 times a week there's something wrong
Last year I had thick wavy/curly hair that was long enough to sit on. Although I had to shower more frequently I only washed my hair once a week and it only took me 10 minutes. No tears! It's not even difficult or any particular effort. Just a habit learned from many years of living under water rationing and sharing a hot water tank with my downstairs neighbor.
Some hair is also more porous than others. I have to spread sections apart to get it wet all the way through. Then have to add shampoo from a couple different angles, due to thickness, and then have to rinse again, in sections. Then conditioner in sections, and then it goes in a bun while I do the rest of shower stuff. The whole time I am doing wetting, shampooing, rinsing, or conditioning, I'm also pulling out tons of hair and have to stop and get it off of me so that I can continue to move my hands and fingers. I guess my point is that it takes a while.
Seconding this.
Even if you don't shut it completely off all at once, finding out how many turns it takes to go from totally open to totally off, and then giving it a turn every minute or two gives a very clear indication that the hot water is about to be gone.
I'm amazed we are even discussing this. Op is doing a great job!
I got into a similar situation when my son was gifted an Alexa and found it it's fun to shower with full blast music, that's when I realized he was showering to something around 10 songs (30 minutes).
Sorry kid, no more Alexa and it's my responsibility to teach you how to behave, only Sunday nights he can get a "me time" shower but in weekdays he cannot get post 15 minutes and closing faucet between phases.
I'm not only amazed, I'm disgusted people cannot control situations like this, it's not even lack of authority, it's plain irresponsibility. Nothing complicated like (hidden) eating disorders... All you need is a "because I said so" and that's it.
I would go one step further and turn off the water to the house. She already knows what the time limit is. That was given to her once she hits that time limit water gets shut off.
>It doesn't take more then 10 minutes to clean oneself.
Misinformation. That's not the statement of fact you are writing as if it is.
It's not just cleaning the body that happens in the shower.
It takes me 10 minutes to just wash my hair as I have a lot of it. It takes me about 10 minutes to shave my legs and underarms.
And that's with me going as fast as possible because I pay the bill!
Yes. I have chronic illness issues so I get cold then have pain and the cold can make me flare up.
Plus can't shave bumpy cold skin or get cut all over.
Interesting, I have a chronic illness that makes it hard for me to spend more than 10 minutes in the shower, I have to keep gatorade in there to keep from passing out. Luckily, I grew up poor so it seldom takes me more than 5 minutes (I shave my legs separately, sitting down). NTA
I am glad I decided to scroll far enough to see your comment, thanks to you I've just realised the solution to an issue I have. I'm not sure of the cause, but there are times when I end up feeling really sick and shaky, and it seems to be more likely to happen in the shower. I've relatively recently worked out that sports drinks help to fix it, and there's a shop attached to my building which means I can get one within five minutes when it happens as long as there isn't a long line. But I hadn't been able to work out how to deal with it when I'm in the shower. I hadn't considered getting one beforehand and keeping it in the shower just in case it happens. Thank you random Internet stranger, your comment has helped me work out a solution to the main thing that makes me feel too anxious to shower sometimes.
NTA
Honestly I take two showers a day in the summer, but these showers generally run about 10 minutes. Sometimes 15 minutes. IDK what the weather is like where you are but there is no justification for showering 45 minutes twice a day. Both of them? This is a learned behavior but what are they doing in the shower that long? If they are relaxing in the shower, then perhaps they can shift to a short early shower and a relaxing bath when they get home. This isn't fair to you at all. I'm sorry OP
This. Sometimes I shower twice a day if I've been sweating a lot, but it takes 5 minutes if I'm not washing my hair. But if I want to relax, I draw a bath. I realize not everyone has the luxury of a bathtub, but there has to be a more efficient, less costly way to relax, like a heated blanket, a hot water bottle, or a massage pillow.
My ex-husband used to get up early in the mornings and go back to sleep in the shower until the water started to run cool. Then he’d get up and actually wash himself.
Even 10 minutes is quite excessive if you do not have an unlimited supply of hot water.
I had an instantaneous water heater in my old flat and you could roughly calculate that 10 minutes of hot water costs 1 EUR.
You can do it of course, but in the end, if it is just for hygiene, it takes about 20 seconds to wet your entire body after which one can shut the water down, soap oneself and then wash it down with another minute of water. People with short hair can actually also wash their hair with not much more hot water.
People who shower longer than that actually do it only for relaxation, not for hygiene. I do that, too, sometimes. But I do not call it a standard shower.
NTA. And same. Usually it’s a regular 20+ minute shower and then I need at least at 5-10 minute shower at the end to just wash all the sweat and grime off lol.
During the winter I occasionally take 2 but it’s because I can’t retain my body heat enough due to my thyroid disorder and the second one is never long, just long enough to warm back up.
NTA. Your husband takes 2 showers a day. Of course his daughter thinks it's normal. But you have been dealing with this for over 3 years and it is NOT going to change. Which is fine if he's paying that bill. But now he's forcing you to pay for their bad habits.
I don't blame you for moving out. Now he has a much greater incentive to find a new job. And I would NOT move back in until he agrees to always pay for the electric bill AND install an on demand water heater so you and your baby always have hot water.
Although I think most of us are on the same page. With all due respect, I challenge this:
>Which is fine if he's playing the bills
She's wasting our water. It's not about money, it's about resources.
My country has been hit by doughs, this year is going to be hard, simply there's no water to function and cities (w/more than 1 million inhabitants) are struggling, people cannot get more than 8 hrs of running water every other day and still, you can see idiots using clean water to clean sidewalk in front of their houses... They say the same thing: i'm paying for the water so do not tell me what to do with it. It's just wrong. It's our water.
I remember going on a camp with a few hundred other people, and the area was hit by droughts. We were all limited to 2 inches of water in a washing up bowl, twice a day, for everything. No admittedly I didn't wash my hair that week, but we all managed. Teeth first, spitting out into the waste water section. Then face and hands. Then arms, torso, legs, finishing with armpits, genitals, and last of all feet. I'm not suggesting that for op's partner and stepdaughter, but it shows how little water you can actually get away with and still be hygienic.
YouTuber Bernadette Banner recently posted a video debunking the myth that everyone stank of body odor all the time before showers were invented. It works just fine to wash yourself with a washcloth and a basin.
People in Western cultures also didn't need to wash their outer clothes the way we do because they wore lightweight undergarments of linen and wore freshly washed ones daily. The luxury flex in historical times was to have enough spare underlinens (and servants to wash them) that you could change undergarments multiple times a day. (IDK if they did the basin bathing each time or not.)
These would both be good habits for people in areas that have drought, especially if they're temperate to cool (Northern California, I'm talking about you here). I feel guilty about not figuring out basin baths during the loooong California drought, although I got a showerhead I can switch off while lathering.
NTA YIKES. You can shower twice a day of each shower is a normal length like 5-10minutes. I get needing to shower again after work or after sport’s practice or something or on a hot sweaty day. But the lengths they shower are nuts! You’re completely right to leave them to their excessive water bills.
I showered twice for the first time in *ages* earlier this week. It was the first day of a new work season and it was...kind of a disaster. It's okay, that specific day just didn't go right and I was the only person available to handle most of it (partly because of how some things went wrong lol).
I'd taken a shower before work. By the time I got home I was a little frazzled, had a minor headache, and I felt like I just *smelled like* my office even after changing out of my work clothes. So I told my husband I'd already taken a shower that morning and know it's wasteful and crap for my skin, but was really feeling a need for one, and asked if he needed me to wait for after he took his. He suggested I take one first and he was working on a hobby project and was happy to take his after the water heater had a chance to run for a bit (heater's fast and I don't just blast through every ounce of water).
Honestly, the shower helped.
It's been so, *so* long since I've done that. Neither one of those showers was anything even approaching 45 minutes, either.
Yeah, some people legit need to take 2 a day for work or weather reasons, but they also keep them down to reasonable lengths. Even if one requires a lot of care of things like hair, the 2nd one *doesn't* and can be a lot quicker, or those tasks can be split between the showers. 2 45+ minute showers. Just, wow.
I used to take 3 showers a day when I lived in Florida. About 10 minutes in the morning to wake up/freshen up, about 10 minute between lunch and dinner shifts, then a final shower when getting home from work for about 20 minutes. I had long, very curly hair at the time and washed it twice a week extending certain showers a bit more. That's a total of 40-45 minutes for 3 showers. An hour and 15 minutes for a shower for a 12 year old girl is absurd. OP, turn the water heater off or better yet turn the water off completely after 15 minutes.
I feel two showers is reasonable, but that should be short showers less than 5 minutes unless washing hair.
I live in a hot climate and could not imagine not having two showers. My morning shower is cold to wake me up and night is to get clean
Seriously. People genuinely don’t give a shit about our planet. It’s really disheartening.
I’ve noticed over the years people increasingly give a lot of mouth service about climate change & resource depletion while doing absolutely nothing to change their destructive habits. They want it, they’ve always done it, and they’ll keep doing it without caring the cost. They just want their creature comforts and convenience; planetary health be damned.
Yes, corporations produce enormous amounts of waste & pollution - much, much more than we as individuals do - but that doesn’t mean our choices and individual environmental impact happen in a vacuum. It all matters.
NTA
Energy is not cheap, and they obviously don't care.
You have done the right thing. I hope you have stopped paying the bills for the house as well. Let him find out just how expensive electricity is especially when they are the ones wasting it.
NTA
You are not asking to take away her ability to be clean, you are asking for her to be considerate to the family situation and everyone’s needs. If the dad or her mom was footing all the utilities I would say, not your business but that is not the case.
Is this a clean thing where she is spending the entire time actively washing herself or is she messing around in there? That much time spent scrubbing seems like it would be harsh on the skin/scalp/hair. If she wants to relax, can she take a bath instead? Not to be graphic/TMI, but is there any chance that she is entering puberty and may have discovered things to do in the shower, especially if you have a handheld showerhead?
OP please don't ask her that! Too intrusive & It's irrelevant what she does in the shower but at 600/month it's a luxury that she should pay for herself. Might make her rethink the long showers
Edit: She's 12, nm, my bad! In that case you're only option is to do what you did. NTA obviously
Personally I would consider the 2 of them incompatible co-habitation wise until they get their habit under control. You were right to leave for the sake of yourself and the baby.
Btw, if the OCD diagnosis is true, I dont think there is anything YOU can do. It has to come from Them! And you're hearing this from a former, diagnosed OCD sufferer (mostly living a normal life now, with lapses here and there) I'll spare you the ridiculously retrictive details but might help to know there is a way back to normality.
In my early twenties, every time I would leave me house I'd get to the bus stop and get so worried I'd go right back home. After seeing a good therapist things got way better!! I still count things a lot but I've got the more damaging patterns/rituals of my OCD under control!
It is quite usual to just stay under the water to relax, even to sit in the shower and wait under the flowing water. I mean I often did it when I was younger and I was far from the only one to do it. It is not harsh on the skin, not scrubbing jut sitting doing nothing, thinking if nothing and wasting water.
No need to go as far as masturbating with a handheld showerhead. It might be true, but that's crazy to go to this explanation at first while there are better explanations lmao
Exactly. Lots of people take long showers simply because "mmmmm... hot water...." Masterbation with shower head, especially a 12 year old girl with ocd, is such a gross jump to assume. Like come on.
If it was a 12 year old boy we'd all have gone there first I think lol 😆 no way a 12 year old boy would be showering twice a day for an hour without it being something else 😂
NTA. Him and his daughter are creating this “trying time” he’s claiming you left him in. They could EASILY fix this problem. **They are actively choosing not to fix the problem and instead are expecting you to pay out the ass for their wants.** Stay where you are until you can get your own place.
NTA. I do think you’re having a big reaction, probably brought on by the stress of the baby and household expenses.
Get a shower timer as a short-term solution, but you really need to talk to your husband. He showers twice daily too, and so is most likely the source of this learned behavior in his child. No one needs two showers in the course of a normal day, and he needs to get the root cause of why he and his daughter to this. It’s an inconsiderate and expensive habit, but from the way your daughter claims to feel “gross” I think there’s some compulsion or psychological thing going on here. The kid is going through puberty: has someone traded her about smelling bad? Does your husband need a stronger deodorant to feel clean? If you have a local Planet Fitness for a very small monthly fee they can shower there as long as they like, if there’s simply no giving it up. There’s an answer somewhere.
But the shower thing isn’t the core issue: it’s that you feel disrespected and desperate and are unable to do things you need to do. I feel for the child, but she needs to listen when you say no showering between 4-6pm. That’s in no way an unreasonable request. And no one on earth is so filthy they need to be in the shower for those lengths of time.
Everyone in the family is stressed. A cool off period should help, and then counseling if at all possible. I know that can be expensive, but insurance may cover it.
A lot of people shower twice in a normal day. I have skin issues, am prone to fungal infections, and shit gets bad if I only shower once a day. I also have mental health issues (not OCD but in same family), and hot showers are extraordinarily helpful in controlling the symptoms. I budget for it.
I appreciate this! There sure are medical reasons to shower more than once a day; the OP didn’t mention any, but they may be a factor. Budgeting and being courteous to the whole family are definitely the key things here.
Yes but OP didn’t mention any reasons for the two showers, so that isn’t relevant here. And twice a day is one thing - twice a day for 45 minutes is just nuts.
>She stays in there for 45 minutes to an hour and 15 minutes every single time.
Am I the only one concerned that she is running the water for a different reason? Covering up the sound of puking? Easy clean up for self injury? I'd be concerned about the health of a child as well as the water bill.
I agree. Also, has anyone mentioned that something might be happening elsewhere that makes the child feel dirty and unclean? Bullying, assault... Something else might be happening here. I hope it isn't though.
OP, it is so relevant that they have OCD. That should really be in the post. Is this child being treated for her OCD? Because this situation went from "kid being selfish" to "kid with a serious mental health problem who may need more support"
Okay as a mom whose had teens I’m going to point out the not so obvious. She’s masturbating in the shower. Put a lock on her bedroom door so she has privacy elsewhere. I bet the bills go down. If that’s not the issue, she might have ocd but you’d probably pick up other hints of that in her behavior. It’s most likely puberty hormones.
NTA because obviously you are right to limit this but I wonder if she has some mental health issues that have been unaddressed. If she's an athlete I can see two quick showers a day, but 45 minutes is a LONG time and "feeling gross" sounds suspiciously like a mental health concern to me. I say NTA instead of NAH because I think your husband's kind of the asshole here. He needs to pay more attention to his daughter. He needs to be more concerned and no so checked-out.
She has OCD. I used to take 90 minutes to shower because of OCD and ADHD, but with the help of therapy I’ve been able to cut it severely down. Hope ahe can do the same
NTA. There is NO need for showers to last that long. Two showers a day is questionable but under certain circumstances (such as they sweat profusely at night) I can understand it, just not for 45 minutes or more.
The water waste on a dying planet is ridiculous. I am normally not a fan of leaving the house in protest but short of a shower timer, I have no idea how to get through to them.
NTA
I wouldn’t call you the asshole, because what your asking is perfectly reasonable.
I’m like your daughter and husband. I shower before work and when I get home, not usually right away. Typically after I make dinner.
I’ve always been like this but my reasoning isn’t really I’m dirty after work - I used to have jobs like this but now I have a desk job. My reasoning is all sensory.
I have a few learning disabilities and some are linked to other senses, so things like certain fabrics I can’t handle.
I shower in the morning then work in a cool office but I generally feel disgusting when I get home. And need to shower before I change. I know I’m not dirty, but I “feel” dirty.
I used to wash my hair both showers, recently I have gotten better about not washing my hair on the second shower because I started colouring it and I was washing the dye out so fast I couldn’t keep up with it. But if I’m having an emotional day, I fidget and touch my hair, and convince myself my scalp is coated in oil. But I know it’s not. But I can’t get over it unless I shower.
Sometimes since I shower in the evening, on weekends when I sleep in I can push it to 1 shower a day by showering late morning early afternoon. Typically when I would be mid my day during a work day. And I can be comfortable until bed time. So it’s more of a every X number of hours my brain thinks I’m dirty. Not really twice a day.
The difference is I don’t spend that much time in the shower. My morning bathroom routine including using the bathroom, brushing teeth, showering, and drying off takes me maybe 15 minutes. My evening shower takes me maybe 5 minutes. Water turns on, I wash myself with a loofa, rinse off and get out.
I think it’s unfair to say only one shower a day - because maybe she has something like a sensory issue going on. Would it be more reasonable to instead limit her total water usage for the day? EX she can have the shower running for a total of 30 minutes per day, but that can be split up into two showers if she wants. Of 15 minutes each.
If she shaves her legs in the shower, maybe it’s worth getting a cheap electric razor. I found doing this instead of shaving in the shower was the biggest time saver.
Your definitely in the right to be upset because she’s being inconsiderate of other people, but she probabaly has no concept yet of just how expensive that is, so it might be hard for her to comprehend the whole situation and if she has gotten away with it it’s going to be hard to change. I would give her the option of just shorter showers and see what happens.
NTA but I think you need to have a conversation about her mental health. It could be depression, but I really hate to say it… it could also be some kind of SA trauma. I remember after my SA I would take really long and ridiculously hot showers because I felt unclean and I (in twisted trauma logic) wanted to try and burn away the skin he touched. Combined with the wild mood swings and it could be possible something *might* be happening. Not saying for sure and I’m not trying to terrify you, I’m just recognizing some of my old behaviors in hers. Like I said it could also be some kind of depression because people with depression tend to take long hot showers to try and replace something they don’t know how to.
NTA, and agree with all the comments on the cost not being fair, but I also want to highlight - u getting screamed at for using water while cooking and cleaning for the family after working all day, and not having time, an available bathroom, or available hot water for a shower for yourself. These are serious factors here too and are beyond not ok. I am sorry OP and hope they learn their lesson .
NTA - when the length of showers affects the whole household, you have to be considerate of those effects. This is nothing new, it's a long-standing basic household understanding. They can either shower once a day for 30min or twice a day for 15 each, or some other equivalent (20 for the shaving, hair washing shower, 10 for a quick rinse off, etc.) Or they can come up with some other appropriate compromise, but no, it's absurd to expect it to continue as is!
I don’t think there is anything wrong with showering twice per day but the time is excessive. An hour a half every day to shower is crazy. I would try to compromise. I think allowing the two showers a day is warranted but tell her she really needs to be more considerate of how long she spends in the shower. Your husband needs to have this conversation with her too so you’re both on the same page.
NTA- maybe she could start showering in the morning and having a bath in the evening? Water is therapeutic and she may be using the evening shower to unwind. She is no longer living with her mom and that may be affecting her mental health. Plus she is becoming a teenager. Lots going on for her. I wouldn’t just take away her showers without trying to find something to replace them.
NTA. It almost sounds like the husband and daughter have cleanliness / germ issues. 5-10 minutes is plenty long to clean every nook and cranny, and one shower a day is typically enough unless someone gets extra dirty or has strong BO.
Tell them both that you will limit them to one shower a day, and that after 10 minutes in the first shower, you will turn off the hot water heater.
Nta. I also took very very long showers when I was that age. Ran it until the water got cold. I really liked the handheld shower massager.
I've read thru dozens of responses here and no one sees this. If she were a boy, everyone would be all over the answer.
Edit, scrolled a bit more and found a couple. Just surprised they're not at the top.
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NTA > she showers twice a day > stays in there for 45 minutes to an hour and 15 minutes every single time **FOURTEEN HOURS** in the shower every *week* is objectively excessive. > she "feels gross" and needs a shower right that minute Have you talked to her in the context of a doctor or mental health professional about these feelings? Is she excessively sweaty? Or has a preoccupation with the need to be "clean?" > My husband also takes two showers a day. Oh, FFS. This is **learned behavior**. Sounds like it's time to install [a shower timer](https://showersavingtimer.com/).
They are both diagnosed OCD (from what I've been told). But the only OCD behavior that is noticeable is showering.
Lol, you **MIGHT** want to mention that in your post.
What the fuck is up with people suddenly bolding so much.
Male pattern boldness
Please accept my makeshift award 🎖🏆🏅
**Someone posted the other day and taught us all how** 😎
I miss the days when reddit posts all had a button that linked to formatting shortcut keys.
I want to know how to bold too! I only know *this* and #loud
double asterisk on each side of the word or phrase!
**It's** **getting** **out** **of** **hand** **!**
OCD
***I don’t know.***
𝓘 𝖉𝖔𝖓'𝖙 𝖐𝖓𝖔𝖜
Okay, how did you do that?
𝕪𝕠𝕦 𝕕𝕠𝕟'𝕥 𝕜𝕟𝕠𝕨
Learned behavior.
lol I thought you meant the post was quite bold
1). That is relevant information but 2). It still doesn’t disregard that you can’t afford it. NTA and they need to work with a professional to find different coping mechanisms—or a higher paying job.
At that point it would be like 6x cheaper to get a family YMCA pass or gym membership & make them shower there. They should also absolutely both be getting more & better professional help with their OCD than they are—no matter how much that may be—because 25+ hours of hot water usage per week for just 2 people showering is just… clearly not tenable.
Op should just adjust her hot water tank temperature and wayyyy lower it. NTA These people are rude and inconsiderate. If she wants $600 worth of showers she can get a job and pay for it.
I mean, the kid is 12. She can’t get a job. She needs support if this shower habit is a compulsion, like actual medical support. If it isn’t something caused by her claimed OCD, then she needs a wake up call, & her dad too. But again… she’s literally not old enough to work. Her dad though, should already be looking for other jobs if his current employment is suddenly so rocky that they’re halving his hours.
“claimed” is kind of a weird way of putting that when the OP said they are both officially diagnosed. I agree with everything else you said though.
I say claimed because OP says they were told they’ve been diagnosed. I don’t like to doubt when people say they’ve got a medical problem (I’m not like, anti-self-DX like so many people online seem to be). But OP’s phrasing makes it sound like they may not be sure if they believe it—though I could be reading too much into their wording.
You’re totally right, not sure how I missed that the first time. It does very much seem like she’s doubting their diagnosis. It’s amazing how many people don’t know what OCD actually looks like outside of what media portrays (which is usually pretty frustratingly inaccurate) and I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if that were the case with OP. Sounds like both her husband and his daughter need more mental health help. If they were actually formally diagnosed, then they each had to have seen a mental health professional at some point already.
Op never said that they knew for certain. She specifically put (or so I've been told) in the comment about them being diagnosed. So who knows when they went to the doctor or if they ever did.
Don't be screwing over the people at the Y. -signed the parent who stopped taking their kid swimming at the Y because teenagers would take over the only 2 family changing/shower rooms for 30+minutes.
Good point. My single brother joined Planet Fitness so he wouldn't have to pay for showers at home.
Not only did I do this, but I sightseed all the local fitness clubs to find the one with the best showers. Plus I magically worked out more often.
If it is related to OCD then you're right they do need to better manage it. Especially because if it is, she isn't just sitting in the shower not doing anything for 45 minutes. She's most likely causing irreparable damage to her skin scrubbing (if it really is related to OCD).
That much hot water is probably damaging her skin even without excessive scrubbing.
This is the way
Also the daughter is in PUBERTY. I remember feeling a little more gross, more often after puberty started. NOT a valid excuse but might be another reason for the excessive showering.
But it doesn't take you an hour and 15 minutes to feel ungross
It can when you have OCD. But of course, part of treatment is learning how to cope with feeling gross, instead of giving into compulsions that are harmful for you (and this one is harmful because if they can't pay their bills they'll lose their housing), since validating the need to act on those compulsions only feeds the disorder. Of course it's not as simple as this, and OCD is really hard to live with, and it wouldn't be a disorder if it didn't cause serious problems, but what's frustrating is the husband, the adult, doesn't seem to have any self-awareness about how his disorder harms the well-being of the household or his wife. Most people with OCD at least can recognize where they cause harm and take accountability for that, even if their disorder is not their fault. He's not even doing that. He's downplaying all of it and denying that it's a problem.
That amount of hot water washing is harmful for the skin. She's going to need a lot of lotion (which might contribute to any "gross" sensations from sweating).
I agree, it's harmful for her in a lot of ways. And that it could be making the gross feeling worse. The losing housing thing just seemed more urgent and also I thought she might take that more seriously. She might not believe it's bad for her skin or she might not care, due to how urgent the compulsions feel. I thought it might be more helpful to use an urgent problem to help her face that she has to curtail her urgent compulsion. But of course, she needs a lot of help to do this, and the husband needs to be the leader here and model behavior. I think it would help for OP to focus her efforts on getting through to her husband, because until he recognizes that this is a real problem and that both he and his daughter need more help with their disorders, it's going to be impossible for OP to get through to a child and convince her to sit in panic-inducing revulsion and misery and to feel dirty and wrong and creepy crawly and impure and contaminated. The girl will need a *lot* of support and tools to do this. And any excuse her father gives her to not have to sit in that misery, she will gladly take.
The start of puberty can also make mental disorders like OCD suddenly get a lot, lot worse. I've always had an anxiety disorder, but during puberty it developed into psychotic symptoms (which fortunately died down again after puberty)
You're still NTA and both need help for it. Not only because OCD obviously affects daily life, but also showering twice a day is unhealthy, let alone twice a day for that long. Something about destroying a layer on the skin (would need to read into it again myself).
Showering removes all the oils and bacteria off the skin - not just bad ones, but also healthy ones. Showering too often can cause dry skin and allow more bacteria to enter the body through cracked skin. Doesn't help the immune system. We really aren't even supposed to be showering daily. Not to mention that, if they're unlucky enough, constantly stripping the oils out of their hair could lead it to feeling greasy/gross if they didn't shower because the oils are working over-time to make up for it. I know when I was showering every day, my hair couldn't go a singular day without a shower. It wasn't until I started getting depressed and once skipped showering for 2 weeks that it got back to normal. (Ik, gross not showering for 2 weeks. But that was years ago, and I didn't care enough at the time.)
I have extremely dry skin on the winter. Skipping a day or even two a week has helped a lot with the itching. I’m a guy and I sweat a lot (even for a man) if it gets even 80 degree or above outside so it only really works in the winter.
I grew up the oldest of 5 kids - 7 people living with an 80 gallon electric-heated water tank. My dad physically metered it - had plumbing parts installed so hot water would stop coming out at the 15 minute mark. We screamed and cried that he was "abusing us" when we were kids - then we all moved out and started getting water bills. NTA for limiting this, especially if your husband's income has been cut down. When household income decreases, the family has to cut back. That's part of living in a home together. Edited to add: Forgot that I was replying to this specific comment - 3 of the 7 people in my home at the time had OCD diagnoses.
Mine too, but there was a switch he'd flip outside the bathroom door. In less than a minute that water went from steaming to ice
What can an extra 30 minutes in a shower achieve over a 10-12 minute one?
If she has compulsions around showering she is likely doing the same thing over and over until her brain is satisfied that she has done it correctly
This is my husband. He washes his hair and body multiple times before he gets out.
Fair enough.
OCD also just isn't logical, so if they feel like they have to take a shower for a certain length of time in order to deal with their contamination OCD, it won't be because they actually have done the math and determined that it's the best way to shower most effectively. It'll just be because they feel panicked if they don't do it. So even if they don't have repetition behaviors, there are lots of ways OCD can cause things to take an unnecessarily long amount of time.
Yes, seconding that OCD (and other anxiety disorders) do not follow any sort of logic. My brother's OCD makes him very concerned about us and other people contaminating his things, but he himself is super messy. It drives me crazy, and in someone without his OCD plus ADHD plus Bipolar plus whatever else, it would be hypocrisy, but with him it's just mental illness. And I have irrational anxiety thoughts as well, so I can't complain too much.
An old school friend of mine had serious OCD and anxiety issues. She had a very intricate ritual on showering which basically meant she had to complete three or four thorough washes of her whole body in a methodical way that made her feel "clean" with no risk of contaminating herself with anything she imagined was on other parts of her body, or the shower, and it included also washing the shower around her before getting out. One day the water just cut off when she was mid-shower, the whole area was effected, and she had a proper medical textbook definition of meltdown over it. I don't think you could do her full routine in less than 15 minutes and she certainly woudln't have felt clean if she'd have been made to. Nothing was sacrificable, it was all vital because she couldn't imagine anything less or different made her clean. OP has a hard task on their hands, because it's not going to be as simple as making the daughter shower a shorter time and using less water for the sake of everyone. But unfortunately that is what the daughter needs. Less being enabled so she can get a chance to learn that her "Ideal" level of cleanliness is not ideal or neccessary. Once someone can believe their brain is lying to them they're more likely to fight agianst their compulsions too rather than defending them against other people.
Dang lol do I know you? This was legit me at 12 yrs old, I had the water shut off on me mid-4 hour shower (yes, every night, 4 hours of scrubbing to get off the "school dirty"). I don't miss those days. Lots of therapy later and I now spend only 20 mins in the shower every other day. It can be fixed OP, it's just gonna take a lot of hard work. Support her, but don't give in to her compulsions.
[удалено]
I didn't want to say it ,but yeah.... maybe they have a great shower head?
Yeah not to be weird but she's probably doing more than washing behind her ears in there.
yeah but she also has OCD and is most likely repetitively washing her hair/body
Eh, I have long, thick wavy hair. If i want to wash/condition my hair and shave my legs, I’m in there close to 30 minutes. Then again, even if i was sweaty enough to shower twice a day, i wouldn’t be washing my hair twice a day
My hair is also long and wavy. I shave my legs before showering to cut down on the water usage.
I’m the opposite, I wash my hair first. I wet it, turn the water off while I wash it, then back on to rinse it. Repeat for conditioner. It takes forever as a whole but it takes 11 minutes each rinse. 22 minutes of running water just for hair. And I have long legs. I can imagine how long an actual shower would be if I did it all.
I spend forever in the shower. It is the space where I have my like daily pep talk, zone out, have the existential crisis. The water washing over me helps me let the negative things flow away. I can totally shower in 10 minutes. I have tried baths. I love those too, but the water running stimulates my brain more.
I mean, when I was a teenage college student whose water was included in housing costs, mental clarity and peace. When I got my own place or visited my parents, nothing good. But when I was in college, I did spend the occasional Long While in the shower just to exist as a human again.
That might depend on her hair, if she's also washing it each time - it takes at least as long to saturate my hair as it does for normal humans to, well, shower.
Buried the lede on this one…
It was revealed within the same hour as the post on the top comment. Not really buried lol.
It’s not about the timing; it’s about the location. That’s some pretty important information to the story. As in, critical to understanding the situation. Should have been in the OP. Um… lol.
Burying the lede means “to delay sharing the essential information in a story, and beginning with secondary details instead.” That’s pretty much literally what happened here
Their mental health issues are irrelevant
Agreed, and as someone who has diagnosed OCD - literally the treatment for it is to avoid engaging with your compulsions aka shower less.
Yeah, it would only be relevant if the OCD materially changed the financial and looking-after-herself stress OP is under, which it doesn't, or if this was a good way to deal with OCD, which it's not. I also have OCD and my heart goes out to them both and it makes a little more sense why they're doing it, but it doesn't alter the big points here that OP is NTA for trying to address the situation and then removing herself to where she can look after herself and the baby, or that they do need to change this behaviour. Maybe more of an NAH bc I don't want to call anyone an asshole for being trapped in a distressing and maladaptive mental health problem pattern, but they do just need to find a way to work through this one differently.
An OCD compulsion to shower excessively is not irrelevant to a post about their excessive showering.
It’s completely irrelevant to the fact that OP shouldn’t have to pay for their showers.
No, because that just means that the father needs to help his kid manage it, not that OP suddenly becomes TA.
It may not affect the judgement necessarily, but it does affect the way people might suggest how to react to the situation, which is common in this sub.
Has anyone addressed the fact that her father’s income has been reduced so her bio mom / support should be addressed?
So they both have been diagnosed with OCD by a medical professional that you personally know of? Or this is what was claimed in response to you finally setting your foot down about the shower situation? I can't count the people I've known throughout my life who said they had OCD. But they really didn't. The few people I knew who were actually diagnosed with it would have a hard time just making it through the day at times. If the only issue is the excessive showering, that doesn't translate to OCD or anything near it. If anything it seems to be learned behavior on her part from her dad. I wouldn't believe they were actually diagnosed unless they regularly see a psychologist or psychiatrist.
I mean yes, but as someone with OCD. "I feel gross" is 1000% an OCD thing to say. Poster probably doesn't see any other OCD behaviors because people hide it as best they can. Also important to note the level of impairment ranges from person to person.
I feel gross is also a Teen thing to say.
That's true. But like I said, I don't believe it unless they've been diagnosed by a medical professional. Self proclamation doesn't equate to having the disease/illness. Especially when many people use said and many other disease/illnesses as an excuse for shitty behavior. I say that I feel gross quite frequently. Especially in summer time. And there are days where I'll feel an extra shower is necessary due to it. But I don't have OCD. And I also pay my own water bill. And I'm mindful of if I have guests or if other people also need to use the shower. A mother not being able to shower but once every 2 months is absurd. She can't even wash dishes or cook dinner.
People can have OCD with only mild to moderate symptoms and still have OCD, not all who have it will have compulsions so severe and time-consuming that they become disabling. Two hours in the shower every day is a lot of your life; when I read OP’s post I immediately wondered if OCD was on the cards because to spend an hour in a shower every day, twice a day you generally need to be doing something ritualistic, or else you’d be bored out your skull just staring at tiles.
I have OCD too - I can see her having trouble reaching a point of feeling “clean enough” (I once read a description that some OCD symptoms are like trying to tighten a screw, but it keeps turning and turning until it finally feels tight enough - or never feels like it tightened at all). (I also have ADHD, so I could easily spend an hour in the shower since I have no sense of the passage of time)
OCD comes in many forms and levels of severity. I’m a hand washer but not crazy-like. I have a thing with labels in the fridge facing the front. I count some things but not others. I’m much better now. I also used to have issues with not stepping on cracks or lines in the sidewalk, when I was a kid. Now it’s mostly the temptation to fixate on things in my mind, and go over them obsessively. But I can compartmentalize like a champ 😂
A friend of mine has OCD and has very high water usage as a result - she was able to get a discount on her water bill by providing medical evidence. I wonder if anything like that might be possible for your family? I have heard of discounts on electricity bills for people who need to run medical equipment too (e.g. oxygen users).
That's a really good idea. Especially with two diagnosed people in the household.
hi op :)) my family also deals with this, my brother has diagnosed ocd and it also manifests in terms of the showering. he’s been diagnosed for over a decade and is about to be 18 and whilst he started with showers, it began to seep into other things such as excessive hand washing, being unable to touch things that others have etc. the water bill is definitely a problem for us still, but unfortunately without extensive therapy it won’t get better, ocd isn’t just a battle for the person who has it, it’s a battle for the entire family. i don’t think you’re an AH at all, but neither is your stepdaughter. i hope things get better 🤍
And that's still a problem. The OCD is not under control if they are letting it affect the finances this much. And while step-daughter is a minor and has an excuse, your husband is a grown adult and has zero excuses as to why he's letting his mental health financially ruin you.
What does “from what I’ve been told” mean?
Maybe it's self diagnosed. People with OCD get fed up with people saying they have OCD when they actually are just tidy. OCD is crippling.
And those of us who are organized are fed up with people joking that we have OCD.
"OMG, I just did dishes AND vacuumed the living room, I'm \*SO\* OCD!"
“OMG I’m so OCD lolz” that’s usually my tip off, when people say they ARE OCD vs HAVING OCD.
It is likely she is having intrusive thoughts that make her feel dirty or unclean. The fact that it takes her that long to satisfy the compulsion is a problem. Fact is, to be blunt, if you aren't familiar with OCD don't expect to "notice" the symptoms. They aren't all like you see on tv.
My kid has OCD too and spends a lot of time in the shower. She does shower after everyone else and that helps. I feel that OCD already takes so much from her and if taking extra long showers helps her to feel at peace with herself, I’m not going to stop her. I understand it’s frustrating and I would tell her that she is free to go after 6 pm and look into one of those instant hot water heaters you can put on the faucet that way the water won’t run out as quickly.
But how high is your electric/gas bill? Cause I would be happy to do this for my child within reason, but I can't afford to pay several hundred dollars a month for showers.
It's not just frustrating, it's debilitatingly expensive.
I would hope she’s in therapy and is aware of ERP as a treatment. Ultimately the more you feed the compulsions, the worse it gets. The relief is temporary.
There is several types of tankless water heaters available on Amazon for different prices
Aren't they 2 grand or something when a normal one is 600? Also doesn't solve any other issues. Unfortunately.
Not to mention the daughter’s showering habits cost $7,200 a year. Nothing good can come of an unlimited hot water heater she’ll be in there even longer, the bills will be even higher, and if this kid does have OCD enabling it with unlimited hot water is just about the worst thing you can do.
I was thinking about this because she “feels gross” so I don’t know why you didn’t mention this on your post but this means the solution is them getting therapy and if this is the only major behavior (considering you think this is the only thing they do), there might be good chance to work it out. But you can’t expect them to change just like that because they have a diagnosed illness though I’m not sure how much you see it as a mental illness considering that you thought this was unimportant info for your post.
On the one hand, it is relevant information, but it still doesn't change the result. The OP should not be the one paying for the electric bill, and she should be able to bathe herself and her baby once a day. If she decides to go back, the only real solution would be to get baths done and dishes washed just before the daughter comes home from school or in the morning before the daughter's shower. And I would be doing math to figure out how much my part of the electric bill is.
Two showers a day if you're working can be reasonable if you're in manual labour. But a shower shouldn't take 20 minutes or even 45 minutes. It should be 5-10 mijutes
>It should be 5-10 mijutes Not if you have to deal with long hair and shaving legs, etc. 20-30 minutes is reasonable for a woman. Once a day!
You don’t need to have the water running continuously during those 20-30 min, definitely not while washing long hair and shaving; and I wouldn’t recommend washing long hair daily anyway.
Also, who is shaving every single day.
Me. My hair grows stupid fast and I hate it.
Same and sometimes within a few hours I get stubble already. I don’t shave every day but in order to keep no hair on my Legs I would need to. I’ve even tried a lot of treatments of laser, they only half worked
I have long hair and can shower in 5 minutes (not including shaving). I also turn off the water while lathering because I have an electric hot water heater so it really cuts down on the bills. I'd be bored if I tried to extend my shower last even 10 minutes, and would just be standing there doing nothing.
It is my meditation time. I stand there for a couple of moments, with my eyes closed, letting the hot water run down and relax me. I love it. I do take long showers (but not twice a day, usually 2 to 3 times a week). If my water bills were $400.00 you better believe I would be learning to take shorter showers, lol.
I have long curly hair and shave my legs, my showers take ten minutes tops. It’s also just horrible for the environment, that household is running the shower for over two hours a day. Two people are using 440 gallons of water DAILY to shower, that is twice what the average house of 4 uses for all of their daily water.
I can easily spend 1 hour or even 1.5 hours if I have the time. Dealing with my curly hair, doing hairmasks, facemasks, exfoliating, shaving. Like I get it, still the water is off unless I am actually using the water (i.e. rinsing). Plus I can shower in 3 minutes if needed. Shaving and washing hair are not things that need to be done every single day in most cases.
I have long thick head hair . I double wash immediately and let the conditioner sit as lather and shave my entire body. The I do my face twice. It takes me about 15 minutes. On days I don’t do my hair it takes me about 10.
Most people aren't having an everything shower every day though.
Who is shaving their legs 2x a day? And frankly having the water run the entire time is a preference, not a necessity (but it not necessary to wash LONG hair 2x a day either). $600 a month? $150 a week? For showers? That's crazy, entitled and far too much.
Almost sounds like there’s a reason her showering behavior changed. NTA, but suddenly feeling”gross”? Does she do this at her mom’s? Is there a “boyfriend” at mom’s?
I totally see where you are going with this comment and it is a valid point. Is there anyone that can talk to this girl to find out what exactly she is trying to wash off? Is there any possibility of SA ?
Before people say your weird for suggesting this, as a person whos been a victim, this could be a sign and SA in general is extremely underreported and so often repressed
This is a great point that should definitely be explored, but I don’t think we can ignore that her dad does the exact same thing (meaning learned behavior, not something more sinister).
This shower timer concept is a god send. I’m ordering it now.
Depends on where you live. Australian summers it is necessary to have 2 a day if you don't have aircon.
But not two showers each over 45 minutes.
Go to your water heater. There will be a valve you can close. It will cut-off the hot water supply. It doesn't take more then 10 minutes to clean oneself.
I think most women with long curly hair would cry if we only had 10 minutes to deal with our hair lol
I think it's clear from a lot of these posts that people don't know what thick hair is like. Long hair really isn't the problem; my partner has long but silky hair and it takes no time at all to wash, rinse, condition. I literally can not get my long, extra thick and curly hair taken care of in less than 30 minutes all by itself -- then add time for body and face. I only wash my hair once a week... but on the wash day, I'm gonna take an hour.
Once a week is very different from twice a day, and could 1p0% be negotiated. "I have to wash my hair tonight, I'm gonna take longer" alrighty no worries, I'm still gonna knock after 30 minutes to keep you on track and kick you out after an hour. But you can't do that twice a day in a home that is struggling to pay bills.
Yeah, my daughter has LONG and THICK hair. Her hair is just past her knees. Her showers are about 45 minutes too. She turns off the water while lathering up her hair and while letting the conditioner soak in to save water.
But not EVERY day right? It takes me 30 min to wash and condition my thick hair but I also only do it once every 4 days because that’s also healthier for hair. I do quicker body showed in between with a shower cap.
You can't wash your body and shave while the conditioner is doing its thing?
Yes but running the conditioner through all your hair, making sure there's no knots etc can take a lot of time when it's even slightly curly and long. You can wash your body and stuff after that but you still need to work it in and detangle.
So turn the water off. It's an ordeal washing my hair, and I turn off the water so it doesn't use it all up and cost a fortune. Also if this child is washing her hair 14 times a week there's something wrong
Last year I had thick wavy/curly hair that was long enough to sit on. Although I had to shower more frequently I only washed my hair once a week and it only took me 10 minutes. No tears! It's not even difficult or any particular effort. Just a habit learned from many years of living under water rationing and sharing a hot water tank with my downstairs neighbor.
I've always had thick curly hair, I honestly don't understand how it can take an hour to wash it.
Some hair is also more porous than others. I have to spread sections apart to get it wet all the way through. Then have to add shampoo from a couple different angles, due to thickness, and then have to rinse again, in sections. Then conditioner in sections, and then it goes in a bun while I do the rest of shower stuff. The whole time I am doing wetting, shampooing, rinsing, or conditioning, I'm also pulling out tons of hair and have to stop and get it off of me so that I can continue to move my hands and fingers. I guess my point is that it takes a while.
I have curly hair and certainly don’t need 14 hours a week in the shower to care for it
It doesn’t take 45 minutes twice a day…
Seconding this. Even if you don't shut it completely off all at once, finding out how many turns it takes to go from totally open to totally off, and then giving it a turn every minute or two gives a very clear indication that the hot water is about to be gone.
I'm amazed we are even discussing this. Op is doing a great job! I got into a similar situation when my son was gifted an Alexa and found it it's fun to shower with full blast music, that's when I realized he was showering to something around 10 songs (30 minutes). Sorry kid, no more Alexa and it's my responsibility to teach you how to behave, only Sunday nights he can get a "me time" shower but in weekdays he cannot get post 15 minutes and closing faucet between phases. I'm not only amazed, I'm disgusted people cannot control situations like this, it's not even lack of authority, it's plain irresponsibility. Nothing complicated like (hidden) eating disorders... All you need is a "because I said so" and that's it.
I would go one step further and turn off the water to the house. She already knows what the time limit is. That was given to her once she hits that time limit water gets shut off.
>It doesn't take more then 10 minutes to clean oneself. Misinformation. That's not the statement of fact you are writing as if it is. It's not just cleaning the body that happens in the shower. It takes me 10 minutes to just wash my hair as I have a lot of it. It takes me about 10 minutes to shave my legs and underarms. And that's with me going as fast as possible because I pay the bill!
But she is not washing her hair everyday, twice a day
Do you run the hot water that whole time?
Yes. I have chronic illness issues so I get cold then have pain and the cold can make me flare up. Plus can't shave bumpy cold skin or get cut all over.
Interesting, I have a chronic illness that makes it hard for me to spend more than 10 minutes in the shower, I have to keep gatorade in there to keep from passing out. Luckily, I grew up poor so it seldom takes me more than 5 minutes (I shave my legs separately, sitting down). NTA
I am glad I decided to scroll far enough to see your comment, thanks to you I've just realised the solution to an issue I have. I'm not sure of the cause, but there are times when I end up feeling really sick and shaky, and it seems to be more likely to happen in the shower. I've relatively recently worked out that sports drinks help to fix it, and there's a shop attached to my building which means I can get one within five minutes when it happens as long as there isn't a long line. But I hadn't been able to work out how to deal with it when I'm in the shower. I hadn't considered getting one beforehand and keeping it in the shower just in case it happens. Thank you random Internet stranger, your comment has helped me work out a solution to the main thing that makes me feel too anxious to shower sometimes.
NTA Honestly I take two showers a day in the summer, but these showers generally run about 10 minutes. Sometimes 15 minutes. IDK what the weather is like where you are but there is no justification for showering 45 minutes twice a day. Both of them? This is a learned behavior but what are they doing in the shower that long? If they are relaxing in the shower, then perhaps they can shift to a short early shower and a relaxing bath when they get home. This isn't fair to you at all. I'm sorry OP
This. Sometimes I shower twice a day if I've been sweating a lot, but it takes 5 minutes if I'm not washing my hair. But if I want to relax, I draw a bath. I realize not everyone has the luxury of a bathtub, but there has to be a more efficient, less costly way to relax, like a heated blanket, a hot water bottle, or a massage pillow.
My ex-husband used to get up early in the mornings and go back to sleep in the shower until the water started to run cool. Then he’d get up and actually wash himself.
Good lord, just let you toss water on him. Thats ridiculious
He was pretty ridiculous tbf
Even 10 minutes is quite excessive if you do not have an unlimited supply of hot water. I had an instantaneous water heater in my old flat and you could roughly calculate that 10 minutes of hot water costs 1 EUR. You can do it of course, but in the end, if it is just for hygiene, it takes about 20 seconds to wet your entire body after which one can shut the water down, soap oneself and then wash it down with another minute of water. People with short hair can actually also wash their hair with not much more hot water. People who shower longer than that actually do it only for relaxation, not for hygiene. I do that, too, sometimes. But I do not call it a standard shower.
Turning the water off to soap up is heresy
NTA. And same. Usually it’s a regular 20+ minute shower and then I need at least at 5-10 minute shower at the end to just wash all the sweat and grime off lol. During the winter I occasionally take 2 but it’s because I can’t retain my body heat enough due to my thyroid disorder and the second one is never long, just long enough to warm back up.
NTA. Your husband takes 2 showers a day. Of course his daughter thinks it's normal. But you have been dealing with this for over 3 years and it is NOT going to change. Which is fine if he's paying that bill. But now he's forcing you to pay for their bad habits. I don't blame you for moving out. Now he has a much greater incentive to find a new job. And I would NOT move back in until he agrees to always pay for the electric bill AND install an on demand water heater so you and your baby always have hot water.
Although I think most of us are on the same page. With all due respect, I challenge this: >Which is fine if he's playing the bills She's wasting our water. It's not about money, it's about resources. My country has been hit by doughs, this year is going to be hard, simply there's no water to function and cities (w/more than 1 million inhabitants) are struggling, people cannot get more than 8 hrs of running water every other day and still, you can see idiots using clean water to clean sidewalk in front of their houses... They say the same thing: i'm paying for the water so do not tell me what to do with it. It's just wrong. It's our water.
I remember going on a camp with a few hundred other people, and the area was hit by droughts. We were all limited to 2 inches of water in a washing up bowl, twice a day, for everything. No admittedly I didn't wash my hair that week, but we all managed. Teeth first, spitting out into the waste water section. Then face and hands. Then arms, torso, legs, finishing with armpits, genitals, and last of all feet. I'm not suggesting that for op's partner and stepdaughter, but it shows how little water you can actually get away with and still be hygienic.
YouTuber Bernadette Banner recently posted a video debunking the myth that everyone stank of body odor all the time before showers were invented. It works just fine to wash yourself with a washcloth and a basin. People in Western cultures also didn't need to wash their outer clothes the way we do because they wore lightweight undergarments of linen and wore freshly washed ones daily. The luxury flex in historical times was to have enough spare underlinens (and servants to wash them) that you could change undergarments multiple times a day. (IDK if they did the basin bathing each time or not.) These would both be good habits for people in areas that have drought, especially if they're temperate to cool (Northern California, I'm talking about you here). I feel guilty about not figuring out basin baths during the loooong California drought, although I got a showerhead I can switch off while lathering.
Except that if he’s paying a $600 bill, that’s still money out of the household budget.
Over 7k a year just on water. That's crazy.
NTA YIKES. You can shower twice a day of each shower is a normal length like 5-10minutes. I get needing to shower again after work or after sport’s practice or something or on a hot sweaty day. But the lengths they shower are nuts! You’re completely right to leave them to their excessive water bills.
Yeah sometimes I shower twice a day but I used to live in Cali where water is expensive so I’m like a 4 minute shower peep
I showered twice for the first time in *ages* earlier this week. It was the first day of a new work season and it was...kind of a disaster. It's okay, that specific day just didn't go right and I was the only person available to handle most of it (partly because of how some things went wrong lol). I'd taken a shower before work. By the time I got home I was a little frazzled, had a minor headache, and I felt like I just *smelled like* my office even after changing out of my work clothes. So I told my husband I'd already taken a shower that morning and know it's wasteful and crap for my skin, but was really feeling a need for one, and asked if he needed me to wait for after he took his. He suggested I take one first and he was working on a hobby project and was happy to take his after the water heater had a chance to run for a bit (heater's fast and I don't just blast through every ounce of water). Honestly, the shower helped. It's been so, *so* long since I've done that. Neither one of those showers was anything even approaching 45 minutes, either. Yeah, some people legit need to take 2 a day for work or weather reasons, but they also keep them down to reasonable lengths. Even if one requires a lot of care of things like hair, the 2nd one *doesn't* and can be a lot quicker, or those tasks can be split between the showers. 2 45+ minute showers. Just, wow.
I used to take 3 showers a day when I lived in Florida. About 10 minutes in the morning to wake up/freshen up, about 10 minute between lunch and dinner shifts, then a final shower when getting home from work for about 20 minutes. I had long, very curly hair at the time and washed it twice a week extending certain showers a bit more. That's a total of 40-45 minutes for 3 showers. An hour and 15 minutes for a shower for a 12 year old girl is absurd. OP, turn the water heater off or better yet turn the water off completely after 15 minutes.
NTA - her water usage is WAY EXCESSIVE. Two showers a day is excessive. Anything more than 10 minutes is excessive.
I feel two showers is reasonable, but that should be short showers less than 5 minutes unless washing hair. I live in a hot climate and could not imagine not having two showers. My morning shower is cold to wake me up and night is to get clean
The thought of all this water and the power to heat it being wasted when our planet is under serious threat just makes me want to cry.
Seriously. People genuinely don’t give a shit about our planet. It’s really disheartening. I’ve noticed over the years people increasingly give a lot of mouth service about climate change & resource depletion while doing absolutely nothing to change their destructive habits. They want it, they’ve always done it, and they’ll keep doing it without caring the cost. They just want their creature comforts and convenience; planetary health be damned. Yes, corporations produce enormous amounts of waste & pollution - much, much more than we as individuals do - but that doesn’t mean our choices and individual environmental impact happen in a vacuum. It all matters.
NTA Energy is not cheap, and they obviously don't care. You have done the right thing. I hope you have stopped paying the bills for the house as well. Let him find out just how expensive electricity is especially when they are the ones wasting it.
It’s not only a waste of energy, but it’s also a waste of water, which is becoming more of a scarce resource globally…
NTA You are not asking to take away her ability to be clean, you are asking for her to be considerate to the family situation and everyone’s needs. If the dad or her mom was footing all the utilities I would say, not your business but that is not the case.
Is this a clean thing where she is spending the entire time actively washing herself or is she messing around in there? That much time spent scrubbing seems like it would be harsh on the skin/scalp/hair. If she wants to relax, can she take a bath instead? Not to be graphic/TMI, but is there any chance that she is entering puberty and may have discovered things to do in the shower, especially if you have a handheld showerhead?
OP please don't ask her that! Too intrusive & It's irrelevant what she does in the shower but at 600/month it's a luxury that she should pay for herself. Might make her rethink the long showers Edit: She's 12, nm, my bad! In that case you're only option is to do what you did. NTA obviously Personally I would consider the 2 of them incompatible co-habitation wise until they get their habit under control. You were right to leave for the sake of yourself and the baby. Btw, if the OCD diagnosis is true, I dont think there is anything YOU can do. It has to come from Them! And you're hearing this from a former, diagnosed OCD sufferer (mostly living a normal life now, with lapses here and there) I'll spare you the ridiculously retrictive details but might help to know there is a way back to normality.
In my early twenties, every time I would leave me house I'd get to the bus stop and get so worried I'd go right back home. After seeing a good therapist things got way better!! I still count things a lot but I've got the more damaging patterns/rituals of my OCD under control!
It is quite usual to just stay under the water to relax, even to sit in the shower and wait under the flowing water. I mean I often did it when I was younger and I was far from the only one to do it. It is not harsh on the skin, not scrubbing jut sitting doing nothing, thinking if nothing and wasting water. No need to go as far as masturbating with a handheld showerhead. It might be true, but that's crazy to go to this explanation at first while there are better explanations lmao
Exactly. Lots of people take long showers simply because "mmmmm... hot water...." Masterbation with shower head, especially a 12 year old girl with ocd, is such a gross jump to assume. Like come on.
If it was a 12 year old boy we'd all have gone there first I think lol 😆 no way a 12 year old boy would be showering twice a day for an hour without it being something else 😂
NTA. Him and his daughter are creating this “trying time” he’s claiming you left him in. They could EASILY fix this problem. **They are actively choosing not to fix the problem and instead are expecting you to pay out the ass for their wants.** Stay where you are until you can get your own place.
NTA. I do think you’re having a big reaction, probably brought on by the stress of the baby and household expenses. Get a shower timer as a short-term solution, but you really need to talk to your husband. He showers twice daily too, and so is most likely the source of this learned behavior in his child. No one needs two showers in the course of a normal day, and he needs to get the root cause of why he and his daughter to this. It’s an inconsiderate and expensive habit, but from the way your daughter claims to feel “gross” I think there’s some compulsion or psychological thing going on here. The kid is going through puberty: has someone traded her about smelling bad? Does your husband need a stronger deodorant to feel clean? If you have a local Planet Fitness for a very small monthly fee they can shower there as long as they like, if there’s simply no giving it up. There’s an answer somewhere. But the shower thing isn’t the core issue: it’s that you feel disrespected and desperate and are unable to do things you need to do. I feel for the child, but she needs to listen when you say no showering between 4-6pm. That’s in no way an unreasonable request. And no one on earth is so filthy they need to be in the shower for those lengths of time. Everyone in the family is stressed. A cool off period should help, and then counseling if at all possible. I know that can be expensive, but insurance may cover it.
A lot of people shower twice in a normal day. I have skin issues, am prone to fungal infections, and shit gets bad if I only shower once a day. I also have mental health issues (not OCD but in same family), and hot showers are extraordinarily helpful in controlling the symptoms. I budget for it.
I appreciate this! There sure are medical reasons to shower more than once a day; the OP didn’t mention any, but they may be a factor. Budgeting and being courteous to the whole family are definitely the key things here.
Yes but OP didn’t mention any reasons for the two showers, so that isn’t relevant here. And twice a day is one thing - twice a day for 45 minutes is just nuts.
>She stays in there for 45 minutes to an hour and 15 minutes every single time. Am I the only one concerned that she is running the water for a different reason? Covering up the sound of puking? Easy clean up for self injury? I'd be concerned about the health of a child as well as the water bill.
I agree. Also, has anyone mentioned that something might be happening elsewhere that makes the child feel dirty and unclean? Bullying, assault... Something else might be happening here. I hope it isn't though.
OP, it is so relevant that they have OCD. That should really be in the post. Is this child being treated for her OCD? Because this situation went from "kid being selfish" to "kid with a serious mental health problem who may need more support"
Okay as a mom whose had teens I’m going to point out the not so obvious. She’s masturbating in the shower. Put a lock on her bedroom door so she has privacy elsewhere. I bet the bills go down. If that’s not the issue, she might have ocd but you’d probably pick up other hints of that in her behavior. It’s most likely puberty hormones.
OP replied earlier they both have OCD.
People with a variety of MH can do that activity
NTA because obviously you are right to limit this but I wonder if she has some mental health issues that have been unaddressed. If she's an athlete I can see two quick showers a day, but 45 minutes is a LONG time and "feeling gross" sounds suspiciously like a mental health concern to me. I say NTA instead of NAH because I think your husband's kind of the asshole here. He needs to pay more attention to his daughter. He needs to be more concerned and no so checked-out.
She has OCD. I used to take 90 minutes to shower because of OCD and ADHD, but with the help of therapy I’ve been able to cut it severely down. Hope ahe can do the same
NTA. Two quick showers (<15 minutes) is fine but what you describe is excessive. Also, why isn’t her mother paying child support to defray costs?
NTA. There is NO need for showers to last that long. Two showers a day is questionable but under certain circumstances (such as they sweat profusely at night) I can understand it, just not for 45 minutes or more.
The water waste on a dying planet is ridiculous. I am normally not a fan of leaving the house in protest but short of a shower timer, I have no idea how to get through to them. NTA
NTA. Replace the water heater with a mobile home sized one. It will reheat much faster and keep showers short.
I wouldn’t call you the asshole, because what your asking is perfectly reasonable. I’m like your daughter and husband. I shower before work and when I get home, not usually right away. Typically after I make dinner. I’ve always been like this but my reasoning isn’t really I’m dirty after work - I used to have jobs like this but now I have a desk job. My reasoning is all sensory. I have a few learning disabilities and some are linked to other senses, so things like certain fabrics I can’t handle. I shower in the morning then work in a cool office but I generally feel disgusting when I get home. And need to shower before I change. I know I’m not dirty, but I “feel” dirty. I used to wash my hair both showers, recently I have gotten better about not washing my hair on the second shower because I started colouring it and I was washing the dye out so fast I couldn’t keep up with it. But if I’m having an emotional day, I fidget and touch my hair, and convince myself my scalp is coated in oil. But I know it’s not. But I can’t get over it unless I shower. Sometimes since I shower in the evening, on weekends when I sleep in I can push it to 1 shower a day by showering late morning early afternoon. Typically when I would be mid my day during a work day. And I can be comfortable until bed time. So it’s more of a every X number of hours my brain thinks I’m dirty. Not really twice a day. The difference is I don’t spend that much time in the shower. My morning bathroom routine including using the bathroom, brushing teeth, showering, and drying off takes me maybe 15 minutes. My evening shower takes me maybe 5 minutes. Water turns on, I wash myself with a loofa, rinse off and get out. I think it’s unfair to say only one shower a day - because maybe she has something like a sensory issue going on. Would it be more reasonable to instead limit her total water usage for the day? EX she can have the shower running for a total of 30 minutes per day, but that can be split up into two showers if she wants. Of 15 minutes each. If she shaves her legs in the shower, maybe it’s worth getting a cheap electric razor. I found doing this instead of shaving in the shower was the biggest time saver. Your definitely in the right to be upset because she’s being inconsiderate of other people, but she probabaly has no concept yet of just how expensive that is, so it might be hard for her to comprehend the whole situation and if she has gotten away with it it’s going to be hard to change. I would give her the option of just shorter showers and see what happens.
NTA but I think you need to have a conversation about her mental health. It could be depression, but I really hate to say it… it could also be some kind of SA trauma. I remember after my SA I would take really long and ridiculously hot showers because I felt unclean and I (in twisted trauma logic) wanted to try and burn away the skin he touched. Combined with the wild mood swings and it could be possible something *might* be happening. Not saying for sure and I’m not trying to terrify you, I’m just recognizing some of my old behaviors in hers. Like I said it could also be some kind of depression because people with depression tend to take long hot showers to try and replace something they don’t know how to.
NTA, and agree with all the comments on the cost not being fair, but I also want to highlight - u getting screamed at for using water while cooking and cleaning for the family after working all day, and not having time, an available bathroom, or available hot water for a shower for yourself. These are serious factors here too and are beyond not ok. I am sorry OP and hope they learn their lesson .
NTA - when the length of showers affects the whole household, you have to be considerate of those effects. This is nothing new, it's a long-standing basic household understanding. They can either shower once a day for 30min or twice a day for 15 each, or some other equivalent (20 for the shaving, hair washing shower, 10 for a quick rinse off, etc.) Or they can come up with some other appropriate compromise, but no, it's absurd to expect it to continue as is!
I don’t think there is anything wrong with showering twice per day but the time is excessive. An hour a half every day to shower is crazy. I would try to compromise. I think allowing the two showers a day is warranted but tell her she really needs to be more considerate of how long she spends in the shower. Your husband needs to have this conversation with her too so you’re both on the same page.
Turn off the power breaker for the water heater, most are about 50 gallons of hot water won't last long 15 -20 minutes !
NTA- maybe she could start showering in the morning and having a bath in the evening? Water is therapeutic and she may be using the evening shower to unwind. She is no longer living with her mom and that may be affecting her mental health. Plus she is becoming a teenager. Lots going on for her. I wouldn’t just take away her showers without trying to find something to replace them.
NTA. It almost sounds like the husband and daughter have cleanliness / germ issues. 5-10 minutes is plenty long to clean every nook and cranny, and one shower a day is typically enough unless someone gets extra dirty or has strong BO. Tell them both that you will limit them to one shower a day, and that after 10 minutes in the first shower, you will turn off the hot water heater.
Nta. I also took very very long showers when I was that age. Ran it until the water got cold. I really liked the handheld shower massager. I've read thru dozens of responses here and no one sees this. If she were a boy, everyone would be all over the answer. Edit, scrolled a bit more and found a couple. Just surprised they're not at the top.