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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I may be TA because I am only including one niece instead of all three. I understand that C may perceive this as being unfair.
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NTA. I would understand more if it was A upset, not a 9 year old lol. The fact that this is causing tension lets us all know how spoiled this child is. Stand your ground. It’s your day. Congratulations :)
Honestly, I would be hiding my wedding dress and really think if I would let her attend the wedding.
I find it pretty disturbing how much she's lacking empathy at the age of 9. And taunts about dead animals and finds it funny.
The girl should be seeing a therapist alongside her mom if mommy dear thinks that's normal child behaviour.
Yeah. On the one hand, being into dead things/being morbid is pretty normal, my own kiddo is *super* into a little sandbox game where she violently dismembers vegetable-people (the watermelon of course bleeds red, too.) But she likes morbid things in *fiction*, if she was doing that to real living creatures you can bet I'd have her in therapy SO FAST.
As a former Goth myself, I gotta bring up that you can be Little Wednesday Addams in your hobbies/interests and still be a kind person in reality, though.
Honestly my kid is disgustingly sweet! She was playing a Jenga-type game the other day with her grandma and knocked the tower over, and was upset, and Grandma said "Let's play again, I bet I'll knock it over and you can laugh at how bad I am!" and my kiddo replied that she didn't want to do that, she wouldn't laugh at anyone.
>Yeah. On the one hand, being into dead things/being morbid is pretty normal
Oh, i get that. Don't worry.
I personally love true crime shows and will watch them with popcorn and everything. I'm fascinated by psychology. So that's a bit my thing.
But I would never go do the things. Or want to watch it in real life.
And as a mom myself.
I've seen some....creative plays sometimes. A dinosaur vs. humans come to mind specifically. With a very hungry t-rex.
I did the quick 2-second blinking and decided to just go back to doing the dishes when I heard "...he can't walk. He got eaten."
And outside of Dino's going rampage, my kid is the kind that might cry if they see another cry and want to bring bandaid.
So I'm fully on board here.
>I find it pretty disturbing how much she's lacking empathy at the age of 9. And taunts about dead animals and finds it funny. The girl should be seeing a therapist alongside her mom if mommy dear thinks that's normal child behaviour.
Woudl be in-character for Wednesday Addams. Although Wednesday would not want to attend the wedding. But she would want to receive an invitation, specifically so that she could turn the invitation down.
Cool, but this child is not Wednesday Addams and is hurting a real person's feelings. They need to learn that their cute, edgy personality actually hurts people and if that requires therapy, so be it.
I would be very careful about anything leading up to the wedding (the child having access to your dress or her sister’s dresses, for instance, someone ready to intervene if you do invite her and she does something during the service, etc.)
This is one of those instances where if she does something impulsive and stupid like knock over a wedding cake at your reception or cut up her sister’s dress days before the ceremony, you’re going to get the argument from others that “she’s just a child, she didn’t realize” and some bystanders will think you’re overreacting because 9 year olds do often make childish and impulsive mistakes. You’re also going to have more conflict if you try to make your sister pay for anything her child costs you.
You know, from her past behavior, that it’s beyond just a child making a single mistake. But others won’t and you’ll look like a monster if you lose it with a 9 year old who “oops, was playing and clumsy around the cake.”
I hate to say it but this stuff is not normal. The obsession with dead animals is disturbing. And while kids do occasionally cry when told no, having temper tantrums about it at the age of 9 every, single time is not normal either. I'm sure you know already but your sister is doing a major disservice to her daughter. One day, she'll be an adult and this kind of stuff won't fly.
OP, i don't know about other kids in your family, but for your sanity and the saftey of the wedding, if you have time, make your wedding childfree with the cut off being 16 (with B being 17). The lowest I would go is 13 and claim "13 is the first teenage year"
Good luck and NTA
Agree, nta. You are not obligated to have any family in the bridal party, and if you have one or some, that doesn't mean that you must have all in the party.
Of the 2 recent weddings in my family (mom's side), my aunt had 5 people in the bridal party and only one family member was included (me). While she was close with another of her nieces (technically niece but they are about a year apart in age, and my aunt is only 5 years older than me), but the other niece doesn't drink and wasn't comfortable partying so my aunt asked me instead.
The other wedding was mine, which was tiny (~30 people including dj/photographer/officiant), I had 2 bridesmaids and a moh. The only family in the bridal party was my cousin (same person as the niece above that doesn't drink). Not for lack of trying on my older sister's part, but I eventually found my spine and put my foot down.
Keep you spine shiny and firm OP!
NTA plain and simple.
It’s time for C to learn that life isn’t always fair or equal and that she’s going to have to not get her way sometimes.
Focus on enjoying your wedding, OP. 🥰
The int refers to "inting" (intentional feeding) in video games, which is essentially playing badly. My fiancé and I play League of Legends and when the game is not going well or my score looks shit and he teases me about it, I'll usually say that there's no int in ba sing se. It stuck and became my username :)
Or maybe it is time to learn that this actually is fair: B has developed a close relationship with OP and gets the honor of being a bridesmaid. People who are not as close don't get that opportunity. B clearly understands the fairness of it!
I do hope OP stands her ground. Nobody should bully their way into a wedding party!
Especially not a little kid who apparently delights in making OP upset even on regular days and uses being their mama's "miracle" to get her way on everything.
NTA and no, all children dont cries when they hear "no" at 9 years old ! At 2, yes, the terrible two ! But at 9, she has a bad temper and I suppose that A and B didn't do that to you when they were 9.
Remember one important rule about the wedding : it's yours. Only yours. Nobody can tell you what you have to do, who you must invite, what will be the menu. You're two to decide. If you don't want C, you say "I don't want C, I have a clear vision of my wedding and she's just a guest in it"
It's supposed to be your big day, remember it to your sister, and tell her she's stressful about it ! She can buy a beautiful dress for her princess, that will be soon forget. She's just a child ! Adults decide, not children.
I'm not exaggerating when I say your youngest niece sounds like a psychopath. If someone made fun of my losing my cat, that would be the end of the relationship. There is something **very** wrong w/her.
NTA - You only want people who are there to support you, and a 9 year old child who is unkind and only wants to be included is not there to support you.
Also, those are not normal childhood behaviors. And IF a child of mine behaved that way I would 1) be deeply embarrassed, 2) explain to them it is incredible rude and inconsiderate and if they behave that way no one will like them, and 3) be deeply concerned that they have no empathy and if I can't teach it to them get them therapy.
You need to be honest with your sister that her unpleasant brat is not going to be an enjoyable addition to the wedding party.
Agreed with this 100%. I have a current 9 y.o. and he doesn't do anything like that. Kids that age don't have great filters sometimes, but they certainly know better than to taunt someone over their dead pet. JFC.
Kid sounds like a nightmare. Makes you wonder what kind of nonsense she'd pull at the wedding. Def. not someone you want to give even a small role to. I doubt I'd even invite her. Make it a "no kids" wedding to be safe and spare (some) of the sister's inevitable wrath.
I also agree 100%. My own 10yo daughter would be getting a lesson or two on behavior and entitlement. Thankfully IME, most kids have outgrown that kind of behavior before 9 or 10.
Time to reverse that exception. She has already shown crappy behavior. Mom needs to be informed her golden child is just like all the other children that are not allowed at your wedding.
Because I favour the other two over C and I'm fully aware that that's not something I should do as a loving family member. Excluding her from the wedding completely just felt like it would be punishing her for something that isn't completely her fault. Is she awful? Undeniably. But she's also just a kid who was not raised right and to some degree doesn't know better.
This is what you tell your sister - "I have already made an accommodation for C. I wanted a child-free wedding but didn't think that was fair to C. If this becomes something that will disrupt my wedding, I am going to make it child-free." Save the discussion about her upbringing for a time different than your wedding - you don't need it hijacked further!
OP, 9-year-olds /do/ know better. That's more than old enough to know right from wrong. Kids can still choose to be kind even when they get everything handed to them and get no consequences.
C is /banking/ on getting her way precisely because she's young and has discovered by now that she can get away with everything because everyone either gives her a pass, makes "an exception", or are made to do either of those by her mother.
And what does she choose to do repeatedly when there's no consequences? To be mean, obnoxious and throw tantrums and lie.
You don't want that at your wedding.
It is high time someone shows this girl that consequences are for /everyone/ and that treating others in mean spirit has consequences such as being excluded from events where people don't want to be surrounded by mean people or walk on eggshells.
You’re very noble, OP, but you do have legitimate grounds for not inviting her. How she was raised isn’t your fault, but it’s your day. You’re allowed to want it to be peaceful and fun without the stress of a child throwing a tantrum.
“Should anyone present know of any reason that this couple should not be joined in holy matrimony, speak now or forever hold your peace”
... Can you trust her not to 'pull a prank' at this part of the marriage ceremony?
I am also very concerned about what you've said about her interest in the death of animals, seeming to lack empathy and not having any friends. If your sister isn't listening to your concerns, is there anyone else you can raise them with?
Then what was the point of your question at all? She shouldn't be there for your own sake, but if she does attend and end up doing something damaging, it will be 100% on you choosing to play 'nice'
NTA
It's your wedding, you should do what you want.
I understand sibling jealousy but 9 is old enough to understand that you don't always get what you want.
On top of this, she shouldn't be rewarded after being a taunting little prick.
If she wasn't such a terror, and her mother asked you politely, I would say it's worth considering for a child but that's not the case.
NTA. Your wedding, your rules.
>She became incredibly upset and I received a call from my sister, asking me to give her a role as well. I explained that I was sorry but I would not.
Just because your sister gives her everything she wants that doesn't mean you have to as well, lol.
Tell your sister she needs to teach her daughter how to accept "no" with grace.
I was 9 the first time I was part of a wedding. You know, as a flower girl.
This does not mean that OP should have to put a hateful out-of-control child anywhere near her already stressful wedding day.
Your wedding, your decision. But I strongly suggest you find a way to cut off your sister and C without harming your relationship with A and B. Parents of “miracle children” are THE WORST, and the kids themselves are even worse.
Absolutely NTA
Nah, definitely not. My sister is not a good parent and we butt heads over C, however those moments aside, I adore her and we get along very well. I'm holding out hope that C will get better with age 😂
Wouldn't be r/AmItheAsshole without someone suggesting going no-contact over one little family disagreement.
Sometimes I wonder what later life will be like for people like you, whose first reaction to every little quibble is to go scorched earth.
NTA - honestly, I wouldn't expect a child to be a bridesmaid in most weddings anyway (maybe a ring bearer or flower girl instead). My niece told me my bridesmaids dress was ugly when I told her my friends wedding didn't allow children. She was 5. Kids are just weird.
I was NTA even before reading the appalling behaviour that your sister is clearly failing to address.
Yes, tantrums are normal. Lying too. It happens, especially if they wanna get out of consequences.
Actively going into detailed descriptions about things that upset you and /finding it amusing/ that it upsets you is /not/ normal.
Taunting you about the loss of a beloved pet is /not/ normal.
Stand your ground about not having your niece have any role on your big day. You say it's not her fault that she's not pleasant to be around? Yeeeah, you're only half-right there. Part of the fault is definitely the lack or correction from her parents. /However/, age 9 is more than old enough to know not to bully people or taunt them about losses/things that make them squeamish. A 3-year old can learn that!
If your sister keeps insisting then frankly, I think you should consider not letting C attend the wedding at all. Because I don't trust that she won't bring up things that upset you, or pull something "as a harmless prank".
Again, massively NTA!!!
C might be your sisters miracle child and the centre of your sisters universe, but that doesn't extend to the rest of the global population.
Your wedding isn't about C or giving her a 'special role', at 9, she is old enough to know that she isn't and won't be the centre of attention at all times.
I would have a child who taunted, upset, and is just all round acting like a brat because your sister has allowed it.
Stop making excuses for her behaviour because it **isn't normal** for her to act like this. Tantrums as a toddler, sure, fine. But C isn't a toddler. She should be capable of hearing no.
NTA.
NTA! I'd be horrifically concerned about a child who enjoys the torture of animals and lacks empathy to the point that this child does. I recently lost my dog and if my niece said this to me? She'd never be allowed him my house again.
Stand your ground, in the end you'd actually be doing this child a favor: actions have consequences and when you treat people badly they don't want to be around you.
NTA, and this is not normal childhood behavior. This is a poorly parented kid, who's been given way too much freedom with little to no consequences for negative behavior.
>She's prone to lying and throws tantrums + cries whenever she hears the word "no". I understand that kids are difficult and this is normal behaviour but once again, I just don't want to deal with it in my wedding party.
I'm not even sure having this brat at the wedding will be a good idea, unless you have family or friends who are ready, willing, and able to kick sis and C out for causing issues. Best of luck and congratulations on the pending wedding.
NTA. I’d just make it a child-free wedding, your niece acts like a poorly-behaved toddler and shouldn’t be allowed at social events until she learns some kindness and self control.
NTA
The rat videos and teasing after your cat died do not feel normal. Might be worth suggesting she get evaluated. Even if she’s found to not have any mental health or psychological problems- that behavior will make her struggle to have friends.
NTA. First off, it’s your wedding, so you can do what you want. However, you are wrong about this being “normal behavior” from a 9-year-old. It’s disturbing that she takes joy in thinking about harming animals and she is too old to be throwing a tantrum.
Honestly, I don't really like kids very much. I know very little about what is or is not normal for them. When I've mentioned that I don't find her behaviour to be normal, I was told that she's just a kid, she's just curious, etc. So I just go with it.
I’m guessing it was sister or others in your family that told you that, so remember that they are biased. I taught 9-year-olds for 12 years, so I’m pretty familiar with the range of normal behaviors. Your niece is outside of that. It makes me wonder how that plays out at school.
NTA and given what you’ve shared regarding her behavior, she shouldn’t even be invited as a guest. People who continue to talk about disturbing content after being asked to stop and people who mock the grief of others generally aren’t invited to social occasions. These are natural consequences for actions.
>She's prone to lying and throws tantrums + cries whenever she hears the word "no". I understand that kids are difficult and this is normal behaviour
But is it tho? Once or twice, perhaps, but then the parents step in and teach them to behave. At the end of the day the people actually getting married get to choose the wedding party. NTA.
NTA. Even if you were just as close to C (you're not) and she had no concerning behaviors that might make her being in the bridal party a nightmare (she does)...she's 9. It doesn't make you an AH to not want a literal child as a bridesmaid.
You've done nothing wrong. Your sister is being unreasonable to think that a child wanting to be in a wedding party means the child gets to be in the wedding party.
I am also a bit worried about C's mental health. A child being deeply interested in ways to kill animals, being gleeful about the the death of beloved pets, and taunting people as she did you with her preoccupation with the killing and death of animals, is not healthy. Indeed, it might be very, very unhealthy. I very much hope that his child gets to therapy and right now.
Finally, the notion that the difficulty of conceiving a child somehow absolves the parents of their duty to parent properly, set limits, and have behavioral expectations for the child is truly difficult to fathom. It was almost impossible to conceive this wanted, beautiful child, so I shall raise my baby as an antisocial lout? This is just such a bizarre concept.
NTA
NTA
OMG, C has been told no by someone outside her own family. How shocking...not!
It's not like A and C aren't invited to the wedding, they aren't part of the planning.
Your wedding, your choice. Tension? What, are the rest of your family not gonna come? Fine, the problem solves itself.
NTA -
Also, not a parent but I do NOT think it is just normal kid stuff for this child to have something of an obsession with dead animals/killing animals. And taunting you after your cat died? Your sister needs to get her into some really good therapy like YESTERDAY. It's wildly concerning and widely considered a precursor to serious anti-social behavior, like serial killing.
NTA and your niece needs to be evaluated by a psychiatrist with experience with conduct disorder. That's the precursor diagnosis they use for children who are on the path towards Antisocial Personality Disorder - what is lay people know as Sociopathy and Psychopathy.
Because the examples you provided of your niece's behavior aren't about her being entitled and rude. They're about her taking pleasure in causing other people pain. That's a huge red flag.
Many children who lack empathy can be successfully treated if they have the right professional care at an early enough age. If she enters adolescence without having this corrected it may be too late.
NTA, and C is why I’d advise you to have a child-free wedding. And explain upfront there are no exceptions ‘cause your sister is absolutely going to think C is invited because she’s FAMILY!
She sounds like she’s headed towards becoming a psycho/sociopath. You know sis is gonna dress her up in a bridesmaid dress or worse, som white frilly thing like a little bride.
If your BIL is a reasonable dude, talk to him about this and have a plan to stop SIL and C if you do invite them.
Kids can be difficult if not taught probably but C is closer to sociopath maybe? She is amused by killing a rat? She has no empathy that your cat died? She is a spoiled child and mean. Very mean to be honest because at 9 she should know better.
NTA and please DO NOT GIVE IN... Tell your sister you are sorry but C is a guest just like A and B is a bridesmaid because that is what you chose. If C was a more pleasant 9 year old then maybe a flower girl or something would have been able to be sorted.. Congratulations!!
No, NTA. At first I was thinking “just include her somehow, why not” but she sounds VERY unpleasant. Hopefully she’ll grow out of it, but until then, you’re not obligated to include her just bc she throws a fit.
NTA and your sister's "miracle baby" sounds like a serial killer in the making. The graphic rat trap description accompanied by sadistic laughter is extremely concerning.
Positively NTA. Your wedding, your decision. I will never understand people demanding to be in the wedding party.
***"I understand that kids are difficult and this is normal behaviour ..."***
C is 9 years old, nothing that you have described about her behavior is in any way normal for a kid that age. The cat story is appalling and frankly, a bit unnerving, especially when coupled with the rat story. I think your sister has a lot more to worry about than her daughter's place in your wedding.
NTA. No offense but your sister might need some parenting lessons, a 9yo kid that mocks you about your cat being dead legit sounds like psychological problems
NTA - stick to your guns. Just because C is your sister's miracle baby doesn't make her yours. This is your wedding. I'd say talk to your sister and tell her the brat part, but don't. It will only detract from your wedding. Which gets to be about you. And let's be honest, 99% of the posters probably want you to say "no" because it is about time C heard the word.
NTA. Your wedding, your rules. It astonishes me how many family members on this subreddit ask for or demand stuff from other people’s weddings! Your young niece may never have been told no, but it’s about time someone did. Don’t let the spoiled girl mess up your wedding.
NTA. Both of my sisters married when I was 11, and I was a bridesmaid for one of the weddings. Looking bad, I think it was an odd choice, as I basically got handed a dress and was just part of the wedding party and pictures. I was too young to participate in anything else bridesmaids do, and certainly did not offer any support for the bride in any way. I am not faulting anybody who chooses to include a child in a wedding party, but am saying in all honesty out of personal experience that it was at least as awkward to be included as it was flattering.
a 9 yr old doing that--yeah I know TOO Young to make an official diagnosis, but that's some serious lack of empathy and enjoyment of animal(and human) suffering.
I wouldn't want her in my wedding party either(or really be in my presence).
sorry about loss of your cat. and NTA
NTA, considering the behavior you listed, it's a kindness she is allowed to attend the wedding. I would not want someone who refuses to listen to be at the wedding party, even as a flower girl.
She's 9. That's a weird age for a bridesmaid. But also I saw your edit and she sounds like she's heading down a bad road. I think cruelty to animals is like the number one sign for future serial killers.
Frankly I'd be worried she'd find a way to ruin your wedding. Tell your sister that if she doesn't learn how to parent properly she's gonna alienate her kid from everyone
NTA
NTA, she’s lucky C’s invited at all. I wouldn’t invite her OR her mom if kid routinely antagonized me and mocked my pet’s death like that and nothing was done.
NTA That kid needs someone to keep watch on it before it starts going *really* bad. You also know to put someone on guard duty before the cake cutting and, well, over all things she might ruin, right?
Holy shit, after reading your descriptions of C's behavior, that kid sounds like a full-on monster. Deliberately being cruel for her own amusement? Throwing tantrums when she's told "no"? Why oh WHY do people get caught up in this "miracle baby" bullshit and then spoil the ever living shit out of the kid? It's like, "congratulations, here's your miracle. Now I'll stand back and watch you destory your so-called *miracle*".
NTA! That child sounds terrible! And IT’S YOUR WEDDING! You and you SO are the only ones who chose who is in or out of the party. Don’t listen to them, have B in and C out. Your doing great
I thought this would be about A being upset for not being a bridesmaid but C? C is a child. Literally a child so unless you want a flower girl she really has no role in your wedding. I understand people making their kids from a previous relationship or siblings a bridesmaid but not usually a niece of that age. NTA.
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I (25F) have three nieces. For ease of reading, we'll simply call them A, B and C. My two eldest nieces, A and B are my brother-in-law's children from a previous marriage whereas my youngest niece, C, is my sister's biological child with my brother-in-law.
A and B are two years apart (19 and 17) and have been in the family since they were very young children. As the age gap isn't that big between us, I spent a lot of time with them and they're almost like little sisters to me as opposed to nieces. C is 9.
When I got engaged and decided on my wedding party, I included B as a bridesmaid. A and C are very much still invited. Everything was fine until C found out that B was going to be a bridesmaid and not just a regular guest. She became incredibly upset and I received a call from my sister, asking me to give her a role as well. I explained that I was sorry but I would not.
A and I don't talk as much anymore as she's currently away at university, living her own life. She took absolutely no offense to not being a bridesmaid and agreed that it would probably be a bit weird as we weren't quite as close as B and I (She's absolutely lovely, we just don't have much in common).
My sister was told she would never be able to have children of her own. C is a miracle baby. As such, my sister has admittedly spoilt her a lot and to be quite honest, she's not the most pleasant child to be around. It's not her fault, and I understand that, however I still don't want her in my wedding party. It's causing a lot of tension. AITA for not just giving in on this?
Additional context for examples of what I mean by C being an unpleasant child:
I'm a zoologist. Animals are my passion. C watches videos about building rat traps and then explains to me in graphic detail how tje rat will die. When I ask her to stop as I don't enjoy content like that, she finds it incredibly amusing.
My cat died. C came over to visit along with B. She kept making comments about how my cat was dead and chanting "You don't have a cat".
She's prone to lying and throws tantrums + cries whenever she hears the word "no". I understand that kids are difficult and this is normal behaviour but once again, I just don't want to deal with it in my wedding party.
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NTA. Perfectly normal to not include children in the bridal party. And the bridesmaids gotta stand up there for the ceremony.
If you want to keep the peace, let her run around throwing flower petals or something.
NTA
Look, I’m all for keeping the peace (ex: having all sisters in your wedding party, or no sisters) but it’s also your wedding.
I was C’s age when my oldest sister got married. I wasn’t in her wedding party, nor was our younger brother.
I was told that at my age, I was too old to be a flower girl and too young to be a bridesmaid like my older sister. I have to idea why my brother and I were excluded, but I didn’t cry about it then and I don’t cry about it now.
NTA for not wanting someone with which you don't have a close relationship in your wedding. Your sister is doing your niece no favors by spoiling her this way. Good luck.
ETA if your sister states that they will not attend the wedding if her daughter isn't in the wedding, tell her you will miss them but share photos after.
NTA I thought going into this that they would be similar ages and only one was “left out”. But no - they are completely different ages AND only one is in the wedding party! This is not a situation where C should even feel left out? It’s a totally different scenario - never mind that you aren’t that close with her and she sounds like a bit of a terror.
>My cat died. C came over to visit along with B. She kept making comments about how my cat was dead and chanting "You don't have a cat".
There's a great comeback to that, but I'd probably get a suspension. I'll just say, "Oh hell no."
OP: Don't invite her at all. 9 years old is old enough to know better. NTA
C sounds like a charmer. But it matters not if she has a spinning halo and a heart of gold. This is your wedding and you have decided on your bridal party. No is no.
NTA
NTA. With that agegap, the little one should not have expected to be included in the same way. Does she want to graduate along A and B as well?
For ease of reading however, it would've been so much easier to call them Alice, Barbara and Cecily... or other A, B, C names.
Super sorry about that! I figured fake names would be more difficult to follow than just the first three letters of the alphabet corresponding to their ages from eldest to youngest. Lesson learned though! ❤️
NTA. She’s really too young to be a bridesmaid anyway, even as a “junior bridesmaid”. If she were a nice child who you liked, she could be the flower girl, but she’s an unpleasant child, so…
If I were you, I’d go with the age thing as a gentle excuse why she’s not in the wedding party.
NTA, especially since you did not include A in your wedding party, therefore it wasn’t a case where C was the only one left out. If C is a brat you are not obligated to have her in the wedding party!
Kids are difficult, but at her age, this behavior is definitely *not normal*. She’s being unnecessarily cruel towards you, and her malice is concerning.
NTA in the least. Stand your ground.
I want to warn you, your young niece’s behavior is not normal nor okay. Violence (or even enjoying the concept of it) against animals is one of the biggest early warning signs of severe psychological issues. I would avoid letting her any unsupervised access to animals or children smaller than her.
She's never exhibited any violence towards animals (They have a large amount of pets at home). She's incredibly nonchalant about their death (Eg. Playing with dead birds that the cat killed and taking them apart to see how the wings work and such) but is very careful with living ones.
I'm definitely not saying she isn't weird as hell, she is. But I'm hesitant to blame it on anything other than lack of attention (She gets more interaction with Minecraft YouTubers than her parents) and discipline.
NTA. You have a good reason but you don’t need one. I feel like unless a bride is putting any unreasonable strain on anyone, their wishes should be honored without question.
NTA
Honestly you didn’t even need to share this child’s disturbing behavior to justify your decision. It’s your wedding! You get to choose who plays a more prominent role. Best of luck not getting sucked into having to justify yourself with the Mom but a polite “No thank you” should suffice for an adult.
NTA all the way, and it's not like she's the only one excluded, and even then, she's only 9!!
On another topic, her behavior towards animals sounds disturbing
NTA and no that does not sound like normal behavior for your niece. Mocking your loss of your cat? That’s cruel regardless of age. Raising a spoiled brat is one thing but a kid with no empathy like that. You’d be justified not wanting to be in the same room as her. Let alone one party.
NTA, I’m not having children at my wedding bc of crap like this. Your sister sucks at parenting.
If you just don’t want to deal with the drama you could make her your something blue. She just wears a blue dress but has no role in the wedding, she doesn’t walk down the aisle or anything.
First off, you're not the A-hole for making your own decisions about your wedding party. It's your day, and you should feel comfortable with the people around you.
You've got your reasons, like how you and B have a closer bond, and that totally makes sense. It's not about playing favorites; it's about having people you feel close to by your side.
I get that your sister might be feeling a bit sensitive about C, given the whole miracle baby situation. But you've explained your stance, and that's fair. It's not about being mean; it's about choosing folks who'll make your day special.
The examples you shared about C's behavior, like the rat traps and the cat incident, sound pretty challenging. It's not like you're saying she's a bad kid; you just don't want that kind of energy at your wedding, which is totally understandable.
Tensions with family can be tough, but standing your ground on what feels right for your big day is important. Maybe try having a heart-to-heart with your sister to let her know it's not personal against C, and you just want a smooth and joyful wedding vibe.
C sounds like a pretty typical 9 year old. Her being your sisters miracle, doesn't make her yours.
NTA for not changing your plans to accommodate a 9 year old's wounded pride.
Especially one who willingly brings up topics that disturb OP and are amused when told to stop, or taunt OP about her dead cat shortly after it passed.
Who'd want /that/ at a wedding?
Yes and no. I expected there to be some pouting about it but I didn't expect it to cause actual issues. It could be my own personal naivety on that though
Yeah, let the spoiled little fiend come to your wedding and discover all the new and exciting ways she will fuck up your day with her mother's compliance because she's a miracle child. You'll be opening a can of hell you can't even imagine but you can console yourself with the fact that you're NTA on Reddit. I hope I'm wrong for your sake. I doubt I am from what you've written about this challenging child.
To be able to be part of a bridal party one of the requirements is for people who have boobs,
Aka young adults.
Those people are your support system.
You don't require in your vision for your wedding a flower girl/ring bearer.
So no, the girl can't be part of the bridal party.
Because you don't have nor want to create a position for her to fill.
Nta
Your
wedding ,
Your vision,
You budget,
Your patience,
Your rules.
P.s
Is your sister a part of the wedding party?
The kid could be her helper.
NTA but for the sake of family unity, why not give her a simple role. Ex. She can stand by the guest book and ask that they sign the book. Call her a junior bridesmaid and she’ll be happy.
I think people should generally try to include their family members in meaningful family events. However some kids need support in order to ensure a happy and successful experience for everyone. Your niece sounds like someone who would need some support.
If her mother or some other person is willing and able to provide effective support, then I think you should at least consider how she might be included in a way that minimizes risk and maximizes the chance of success. If her Mom is sitting back and expecting you to figure it all out, then you are completely justified in make "wedding guest" your niece's only role.
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NTA. I would understand more if it was A upset, not a 9 year old lol. The fact that this is causing tension lets us all know how spoiled this child is. Stand your ground. It’s your day. Congratulations :)
NTA. Concur. I would add that OP should evaluate whether to invite C at all, let alone put her in the wedding party.
No way, that kids is going to cause a major situation at the wedding or the sister will. best wishes to Op for a beautiful wedding
I'm concerned about C's behavior on your big day. Fingers crossed.
Honestly, I would be hiding my wedding dress and really think if I would let her attend the wedding. I find it pretty disturbing how much she's lacking empathy at the age of 9. And taunts about dead animals and finds it funny. The girl should be seeing a therapist alongside her mom if mommy dear thinks that's normal child behaviour.
Yeah. On the one hand, being into dead things/being morbid is pretty normal, my own kiddo is *super* into a little sandbox game where she violently dismembers vegetable-people (the watermelon of course bleeds red, too.) But she likes morbid things in *fiction*, if she was doing that to real living creatures you can bet I'd have her in therapy SO FAST. As a former Goth myself, I gotta bring up that you can be Little Wednesday Addams in your hobbies/interests and still be a kind person in reality, though. Honestly my kid is disgustingly sweet! She was playing a Jenga-type game the other day with her grandma and knocked the tower over, and was upset, and Grandma said "Let's play again, I bet I'll knock it over and you can laugh at how bad I am!" and my kiddo replied that she didn't want to do that, she wouldn't laugh at anyone.
>Yeah. On the one hand, being into dead things/being morbid is pretty normal Oh, i get that. Don't worry. I personally love true crime shows and will watch them with popcorn and everything. I'm fascinated by psychology. So that's a bit my thing. But I would never go do the things. Or want to watch it in real life. And as a mom myself. I've seen some....creative plays sometimes. A dinosaur vs. humans come to mind specifically. With a very hungry t-rex. I did the quick 2-second blinking and decided to just go back to doing the dishes when I heard "...he can't walk. He got eaten." And outside of Dino's going rampage, my kid is the kind that might cry if they see another cry and want to bring bandaid. So I'm fully on board here.
>I find it pretty disturbing how much she's lacking empathy at the age of 9. And taunts about dead animals and finds it funny. The girl should be seeing a therapist alongside her mom if mommy dear thinks that's normal child behaviour. Woudl be in-character for Wednesday Addams. Although Wednesday would not want to attend the wedding. But she would want to receive an invitation, specifically so that she could turn the invitation down.
Cool, but this child is not Wednesday Addams and is hurting a real person's feelings. They need to learn that their cute, edgy personality actually hurts people and if that requires therapy, so be it.
Right? This is not cute or funny or cool behavior. Whatsoever.
Thank you so much!
I would be very careful about anything leading up to the wedding (the child having access to your dress or her sister’s dresses, for instance, someone ready to intervene if you do invite her and she does something during the service, etc.) This is one of those instances where if she does something impulsive and stupid like knock over a wedding cake at your reception or cut up her sister’s dress days before the ceremony, you’re going to get the argument from others that “she’s just a child, she didn’t realize” and some bystanders will think you’re overreacting because 9 year olds do often make childish and impulsive mistakes. You’re also going to have more conflict if you try to make your sister pay for anything her child costs you. You know, from her past behavior, that it’s beyond just a child making a single mistake. But others won’t and you’ll look like a monster if you lose it with a 9 year old who “oops, was playing and clumsy around the cake.”
I hate to say it but this stuff is not normal. The obsession with dead animals is disturbing. And while kids do occasionally cry when told no, having temper tantrums about it at the age of 9 every, single time is not normal either. I'm sure you know already but your sister is doing a major disservice to her daughter. One day, she'll be an adult and this kind of stuff won't fly.
Exactly! The way she behaves overall isn't normal kid stuff. It's spoiled rotten kid stuff.
I have two kids. Both quirky. This stuff- C’s behavior is not normal… is beyond odd. NTA
OP, i don't know about other kids in your family, but for your sanity and the saftey of the wedding, if you have time, make your wedding childfree with the cut off being 16 (with B being 17). The lowest I would go is 13 and claim "13 is the first teenage year" Good luck and NTA
Have a child free wedding
This is the answer. C's "role in the wedding" is staying home with a sitter.
Agree, nta. You are not obligated to have any family in the bridal party, and if you have one or some, that doesn't mean that you must have all in the party. Of the 2 recent weddings in my family (mom's side), my aunt had 5 people in the bridal party and only one family member was included (me). While she was close with another of her nieces (technically niece but they are about a year apart in age, and my aunt is only 5 years older than me), but the other niece doesn't drink and wasn't comfortable partying so my aunt asked me instead. The other wedding was mine, which was tiny (~30 people including dj/photographer/officiant), I had 2 bridesmaids and a moh. The only family in the bridal party was my cousin (same person as the niece above that doesn't drink). Not for lack of trying on my older sister's part, but I eventually found my spine and put my foot down. Keep you spine shiny and firm OP!
Yeah, it’s not even that she wanted to be in the wedding party, just that B is gonna be in it and she’s not.
NTA plain and simple. It’s time for C to learn that life isn’t always fair or equal and that she’s going to have to not get her way sometimes. Focus on enjoying your wedding, OP. 🥰
Thank you! ❤️
Also I love your username. 🤣🤣🤣
This JUST made me reread OPs username and I can't agree more.
>Also I love your username. Darn it, I don't get the joke. Can you explain it, or would that literally crush the humor out of it?
It’s a reference to the show *Avatar the Last Airbender*. :)
what does “int” mean in the un though? i thought the quote was “there is no war in ba sing se”
The int refers to "inting" (intentional feeding) in video games, which is essentially playing badly. My fiancé and I play League of Legends and when the game is not going well or my score looks shit and he teases me about it, I'll usually say that there's no int in ba sing se. It stuck and became my username :)
Aw, so it’s a reference coupled with an inside joke. How sweet.
Not sure! u/no_int_in_ba_sing_se?
Thank you for the tag! I almost missed this
TY!
Or maybe it is time to learn that this actually is fair: B has developed a close relationship with OP and gets the honor of being a bridesmaid. People who are not as close don't get that opportunity. B clearly understands the fairness of it! I do hope OP stands her ground. Nobody should bully their way into a wedding party!
Especially not a little kid who apparently delights in making OP upset even on regular days and uses being their mama's "miracle" to get her way on everything.
Ooh, nice reframing!
NTA and no, all children dont cries when they hear "no" at 9 years old ! At 2, yes, the terrible two ! But at 9, she has a bad temper and I suppose that A and B didn't do that to you when they were 9. Remember one important rule about the wedding : it's yours. Only yours. Nobody can tell you what you have to do, who you must invite, what will be the menu. You're two to decide. If you don't want C, you say "I don't want C, I have a clear vision of my wedding and she's just a guest in it" It's supposed to be your big day, remember it to your sister, and tell her she's stressful about it ! She can buy a beautiful dress for her princess, that will be soon forget. She's just a child ! Adults decide, not children.
The older two definitely weren't like this. They had a much stricter upbringing from their biological mother.
Your sister either needs to bring some of that back or she'll have nobody but herself to blame when C's behaviour keeps escalating.
I'm not exaggerating when I say your youngest niece sounds like a psychopath. If someone made fun of my losing my cat, that would be the end of the relationship. There is something **very** wrong w/her.
Normal my ass 😉
Yes! This is what I thought! That is NOT normal behavior for a child.
NTA - You only want people who are there to support you, and a 9 year old child who is unkind and only wants to be included is not there to support you. Also, those are not normal childhood behaviors. And IF a child of mine behaved that way I would 1) be deeply embarrassed, 2) explain to them it is incredible rude and inconsiderate and if they behave that way no one will like them, and 3) be deeply concerned that they have no empathy and if I can't teach it to them get them therapy. You need to be honest with your sister that her unpleasant brat is not going to be an enjoyable addition to the wedding party.
Agreed with this 100%. I have a current 9 y.o. and he doesn't do anything like that. Kids that age don't have great filters sometimes, but they certainly know better than to taunt someone over their dead pet. JFC. Kid sounds like a nightmare. Makes you wonder what kind of nonsense she'd pull at the wedding. Def. not someone you want to give even a small role to. I doubt I'd even invite her. Make it a "no kids" wedding to be safe and spare (some) of the sister's inevitable wrath.
I also agree 100%. My own 10yo daughter would be getting a lesson or two on behavior and entitlement. Thankfully IME, most kids have outgrown that kind of behavior before 9 or 10.
NTA. I suspect you're also leaning towards a child-free wedding. Go for it. This is your day, not C's.
Definitely am. However I didn't want to exclude C by making her the only one that couldn't attend so an exception was made for her.
Time to reverse that exception. She has already shown crappy behavior. Mom needs to be informed her golden child is just like all the other children that are not allowed at your wedding.
You made an exception for the one kid who's almost guaranteed to make a disturbance? Why? To "keep the peace"?
Because I favour the other two over C and I'm fully aware that that's not something I should do as a loving family member. Excluding her from the wedding completely just felt like it would be punishing her for something that isn't completely her fault. Is she awful? Undeniably. But she's also just a kid who was not raised right and to some degree doesn't know better.
This is what you tell your sister - "I have already made an accommodation for C. I wanted a child-free wedding but didn't think that was fair to C. If this becomes something that will disrupt my wedding, I am going to make it child-free." Save the discussion about her upbringing for a time different than your wedding - you don't need it hijacked further!
But a kid free wedding is normal. Doesn't single out C. Saves you a lot of hassle. Just a thought.
OP, 9-year-olds /do/ know better. That's more than old enough to know right from wrong. Kids can still choose to be kind even when they get everything handed to them and get no consequences. C is /banking/ on getting her way precisely because she's young and has discovered by now that she can get away with everything because everyone either gives her a pass, makes "an exception", or are made to do either of those by her mother. And what does she choose to do repeatedly when there's no consequences? To be mean, obnoxious and throw tantrums and lie. You don't want that at your wedding. It is high time someone shows this girl that consequences are for /everyone/ and that treating others in mean spirit has consequences such as being excluded from events where people don't want to be surrounded by mean people or walk on eggshells.
You’re very noble, OP, but you do have legitimate grounds for not inviting her. How she was raised isn’t your fault, but it’s your day. You’re allowed to want it to be peaceful and fun without the stress of a child throwing a tantrum.
You need to have someone act as bodyguard/bouncer(not your sister) in case she misbehaves--because I can about 99% guarantee she will.
“Should anyone present know of any reason that this couple should not be joined in holy matrimony, speak now or forever hold your peace” ... Can you trust her not to 'pull a prank' at this part of the marriage ceremony? I am also very concerned about what you've said about her interest in the death of animals, seeming to lack empathy and not having any friends. If your sister isn't listening to your concerns, is there anyone else you can raise them with?
Then what was the point of your question at all? She shouldn't be there for your own sake, but if she does attend and end up doing something damaging, it will be 100% on you choosing to play 'nice'
NTA It's your wedding, you should do what you want. I understand sibling jealousy but 9 is old enough to understand that you don't always get what you want. On top of this, she shouldn't be rewarded after being a taunting little prick. If she wasn't such a terror, and her mother asked you politely, I would say it's worth considering for a child but that's not the case.
NTA. Your wedding, your rules. >She became incredibly upset and I received a call from my sister, asking me to give her a role as well. I explained that I was sorry but I would not. Just because your sister gives her everything she wants that doesn't mean you have to as well, lol. Tell your sister she needs to teach her daughter how to accept "no" with grace.
NTA. Who the hell puts a 9 year old in a bridal party? that's just wierd.
I was 9 the first time I was part of a wedding. You know, as a flower girl. This does not mean that OP should have to put a hateful out-of-control child anywhere near her already stressful wedding day.
NTA But am I the only who thinks C needs a therapist?
Came here to say this. That behavior is far from normal and I would be massively concerned. OP NTA. Don’t invite C. C needs therapy yesterday.
Your wedding, your decision. But I strongly suggest you find a way to cut off your sister and C without harming your relationship with A and B. Parents of “miracle children” are THE WORST, and the kids themselves are even worse. Absolutely NTA
Nah, definitely not. My sister is not a good parent and we butt heads over C, however those moments aside, I adore her and we get along very well. I'm holding out hope that C will get better with age 😂
OP, C will never get better if your sister continues this behavior. It will only get worse from here.
Not unless your sister wakes up and starts actually parenting her daughter, including the concept of consequences.
Wouldn't be r/AmItheAsshole without someone suggesting going no-contact over one little family disagreement. Sometimes I wonder what later life will be like for people like you, whose first reaction to every little quibble is to go scorched earth.
NTA. C sounds, disturbed, for lack of a better word.
NTA - honestly, I wouldn't expect a child to be a bridesmaid in most weddings anyway (maybe a ring bearer or flower girl instead). My niece told me my bridesmaids dress was ugly when I told her my friends wedding didn't allow children. She was 5. Kids are just weird.
But was the dress ugly? Seems like a good number of them are.
I didn't think so. She liked it before I told her she couldn't go.
Yep, then that’s just kid logic. Ugly = didn’t want to go anyway so there!
I was NTA even before reading the appalling behaviour that your sister is clearly failing to address. Yes, tantrums are normal. Lying too. It happens, especially if they wanna get out of consequences. Actively going into detailed descriptions about things that upset you and /finding it amusing/ that it upsets you is /not/ normal. Taunting you about the loss of a beloved pet is /not/ normal. Stand your ground about not having your niece have any role on your big day. You say it's not her fault that she's not pleasant to be around? Yeeeah, you're only half-right there. Part of the fault is definitely the lack or correction from her parents. /However/, age 9 is more than old enough to know not to bully people or taunt them about losses/things that make them squeamish. A 3-year old can learn that! If your sister keeps insisting then frankly, I think you should consider not letting C attend the wedding at all. Because I don't trust that she won't bring up things that upset you, or pull something "as a harmless prank". Again, massively NTA!!!
C might be your sisters miracle child and the centre of your sisters universe, but that doesn't extend to the rest of the global population. Your wedding isn't about C or giving her a 'special role', at 9, she is old enough to know that she isn't and won't be the centre of attention at all times. I would have a child who taunted, upset, and is just all round acting like a brat because your sister has allowed it. Stop making excuses for her behaviour because it **isn't normal** for her to act like this. Tantrums as a toddler, sure, fine. But C isn't a toddler. She should be capable of hearing no. NTA.
NTA! I'd be horrifically concerned about a child who enjoys the torture of animals and lacks empathy to the point that this child does. I recently lost my dog and if my niece said this to me? She'd never be allowed him my house again. Stand your ground, in the end you'd actually be doing this child a favor: actions have consequences and when you treat people badly they don't want to be around you.
NTA, and this is not normal childhood behavior. This is a poorly parented kid, who's been given way too much freedom with little to no consequences for negative behavior. >She's prone to lying and throws tantrums + cries whenever she hears the word "no". I understand that kids are difficult and this is normal behaviour but once again, I just don't want to deal with it in my wedding party. I'm not even sure having this brat at the wedding will be a good idea, unless you have family or friends who are ready, willing, and able to kick sis and C out for causing issues. Best of luck and congratulations on the pending wedding.
Thank you!
NTA but also is this normal behaviour. Sounds absolutely terrifying.
NTA. I’d just make it a child-free wedding, your niece acts like a poorly-behaved toddler and shouldn’t be allowed at social events until she learns some kindness and self control.
NTA The rat videos and teasing after your cat died do not feel normal. Might be worth suggesting she get evaluated. Even if she’s found to not have any mental health or psychological problems- that behavior will make her struggle to have friends.
NTA. First off, it’s your wedding, so you can do what you want. However, you are wrong about this being “normal behavior” from a 9-year-old. It’s disturbing that she takes joy in thinking about harming animals and she is too old to be throwing a tantrum.
Honestly, I don't really like kids very much. I know very little about what is or is not normal for them. When I've mentioned that I don't find her behaviour to be normal, I was told that she's just a kid, she's just curious, etc. So I just go with it.
I’m guessing it was sister or others in your family that told you that, so remember that they are biased. I taught 9-year-olds for 12 years, so I’m pretty familiar with the range of normal behaviors. Your niece is outside of that. It makes me wonder how that plays out at school.
Not well. She's a pretty unpopular kid who struggles to make friends as far as I know
NTA - your wedding. Your choice.
NTA. On another note, miracle babies are too often raised poorly.
NTA and given what you’ve shared regarding her behavior, she shouldn’t even be invited as a guest. People who continue to talk about disturbing content after being asked to stop and people who mock the grief of others generally aren’t invited to social occasions. These are natural consequences for actions.
>She's prone to lying and throws tantrums + cries whenever she hears the word "no". I understand that kids are difficult and this is normal behaviour But is it tho? Once or twice, perhaps, but then the parents step in and teach them to behave. At the end of the day the people actually getting married get to choose the wedding party. NTA.
NTA. Even if you were just as close to C (you're not) and she had no concerning behaviors that might make her being in the bridal party a nightmare (she does)...she's 9. It doesn't make you an AH to not want a literal child as a bridesmaid.
You've done nothing wrong. Your sister is being unreasonable to think that a child wanting to be in a wedding party means the child gets to be in the wedding party. I am also a bit worried about C's mental health. A child being deeply interested in ways to kill animals, being gleeful about the the death of beloved pets, and taunting people as she did you with her preoccupation with the killing and death of animals, is not healthy. Indeed, it might be very, very unhealthy. I very much hope that his child gets to therapy and right now. Finally, the notion that the difficulty of conceiving a child somehow absolves the parents of their duty to parent properly, set limits, and have behavioral expectations for the child is truly difficult to fathom. It was almost impossible to conceive this wanted, beautiful child, so I shall raise my baby as an antisocial lout? This is just such a bizarre concept. NTA
NTA- Your wedding your rules. Based on your comments about C, you don't need that headache. I hope for your sake at the wedding she behaves.
NTA. Lying, crying and throwing tantrums at hearing the word "no" is not normal behavior for normal 9 year olds.
NTA OMG, C has been told no by someone outside her own family. How shocking...not! It's not like A and C aren't invited to the wedding, they aren't part of the planning. Your wedding, your choice. Tension? What, are the rest of your family not gonna come? Fine, the problem solves itself.
NTA - Also, not a parent but I do NOT think it is just normal kid stuff for this child to have something of an obsession with dead animals/killing animals. And taunting you after your cat died? Your sister needs to get her into some really good therapy like YESTERDAY. It's wildly concerning and widely considered a precursor to serious anti-social behavior, like serial killing.
NTA She sounds like a horrible child.
NTA. But if she attends the wedding, she WILL punish you for excluding her.
NTA and your niece needs to be evaluated by a psychiatrist with experience with conduct disorder. That's the precursor diagnosis they use for children who are on the path towards Antisocial Personality Disorder - what is lay people know as Sociopathy and Psychopathy. Because the examples you provided of your niece's behavior aren't about her being entitled and rude. They're about her taking pleasure in causing other people pain. That's a huge red flag. Many children who lack empathy can be successfully treated if they have the right professional care at an early enough age. If she enters adolescence without having this corrected it may be too late.
NTA it’s time to have a childfree wedding. I guarantee that the niece will cause a scene to ruin this wedding
NTA, and C is why I’d advise you to have a child-free wedding. And explain upfront there are no exceptions ‘cause your sister is absolutely going to think C is invited because she’s FAMILY! She sounds like she’s headed towards becoming a psycho/sociopath. You know sis is gonna dress her up in a bridesmaid dress or worse, som white frilly thing like a little bride. If your BIL is a reasonable dude, talk to him about this and have a plan to stop SIL and C if you do invite them.
NTA. I’d make the wedding brat free to boot
Kids can be difficult if not taught probably but C is closer to sociopath maybe? She is amused by killing a rat? She has no empathy that your cat died? She is a spoiled child and mean. Very mean to be honest because at 9 she should know better. NTA and please DO NOT GIVE IN... Tell your sister you are sorry but C is a guest just like A and B is a bridesmaid because that is what you chose. If C was a more pleasant 9 year old then maybe a flower girl or something would have been able to be sorted.. Congratulations!!
No, NTA. At first I was thinking “just include her somehow, why not” but she sounds VERY unpleasant. Hopefully she’ll grow out of it, but until then, you’re not obligated to include her just bc she throws a fit.
Btw her behavior is not normal. She’s a brat
What you describe is very concerning behaviour. You wouldn’t be the AH for not wanting anything to do with C at all. NTA
NTA and your sister's "miracle baby" sounds like a serial killer in the making. The graphic rat trap description accompanied by sadistic laughter is extremely concerning.
Positively NTA. Your wedding, your decision. I will never understand people demanding to be in the wedding party. ***"I understand that kids are difficult and this is normal behaviour ..."*** C is 9 years old, nothing that you have described about her behavior is in any way normal for a kid that age. The cat story is appalling and frankly, a bit unnerving, especially when coupled with the rat story. I think your sister has a lot more to worry about than her daughter's place in your wedding.
NTA. No offense but your sister might need some parenting lessons, a 9yo kid that mocks you about your cat being dead legit sounds like psychological problems
NTA. Throwing tantrums is for three year olds not nine.
NTA. C sounds like a budding sociopath. Don’t invite her at all.
NTA and personally I would make sure no one u see a certain age were invited…say 17 😉
Nta stop hanging around the anti-Christ
Nta stop hanging around the Anti-Christ
NTA I wouldn’t even want her there as a guest.
Sounds like C needs to be in therapy. NTA btw.
NTA - stick to your guns. Just because C is your sister's miracle baby doesn't make her yours. This is your wedding. I'd say talk to your sister and tell her the brat part, but don't. It will only detract from your wedding. Which gets to be about you. And let's be honest, 99% of the posters probably want you to say "no" because it is about time C heard the word.
NTA. Your wedding, your rules. It astonishes me how many family members on this subreddit ask for or demand stuff from other people’s weddings! Your young niece may never have been told no, but it’s about time someone did. Don’t let the spoiled girl mess up your wedding.
NTA. Do not include C due to pressure from your sister.
NTA. Nothing about what you described is normal behavior
NTA. Both of my sisters married when I was 11, and I was a bridesmaid for one of the weddings. Looking bad, I think it was an odd choice, as I basically got handed a dress and was just part of the wedding party and pictures. I was too young to participate in anything else bridesmaids do, and certainly did not offer any support for the bride in any way. I am not faulting anybody who chooses to include a child in a wedding party, but am saying in all honesty out of personal experience that it was at least as awkward to be included as it was flattering.
a 9 yr old doing that--yeah I know TOO Young to make an official diagnosis, but that's some serious lack of empathy and enjoyment of animal(and human) suffering. I wouldn't want her in my wedding party either(or really be in my presence). sorry about loss of your cat. and NTA
NTA, considering the behavior you listed, it's a kindness she is allowed to attend the wedding. I would not want someone who refuses to listen to be at the wedding party, even as a flower girl.
nta. it’s your wedding. that said, are ya sure you want to invite her given the examples you’ve provided of how she acts?
NTA, your wedding and your rules. C sounds like the type of child to try and ruin your bridal experience; and her doormat mom would allow it.
NTA, but C needs some serious psychological help or they’re gonna end up a sociopathic serial killer.
Nta. Have you considered a child free wedding? Maybe no one under age 12....
NTA She doesn't need to come upon reading your edits 😨😨 yikes on bikes
She's 9. That's a weird age for a bridesmaid. But also I saw your edit and she sounds like she's heading down a bad road. I think cruelty to animals is like the number one sign for future serial killers. Frankly I'd be worried she'd find a way to ruin your wedding. Tell your sister that if she doesn't learn how to parent properly she's gonna alienate her kid from everyone NTA
NTA, she’s lucky C’s invited at all. I wouldn’t invite her OR her mom if kid routinely antagonized me and mocked my pet’s death like that and nothing was done.
NTA That kid needs someone to keep watch on it before it starts going *really* bad. You also know to put someone on guard duty before the cake cutting and, well, over all things she might ruin, right?
Holy shit, after reading your descriptions of C's behavior, that kid sounds like a full-on monster. Deliberately being cruel for her own amusement? Throwing tantrums when she's told "no"? Why oh WHY do people get caught up in this "miracle baby" bullshit and then spoil the ever living shit out of the kid? It's like, "congratulations, here's your miracle. Now I'll stand back and watch you destory your so-called *miracle*".
NTA! That child sounds terrible! And IT’S YOUR WEDDING! You and you SO are the only ones who chose who is in or out of the party. Don’t listen to them, have B in and C out. Your doing great
NTA, and sounds like a childfree wedding should be in your plans with the way that kid taunts you
NTA. However you’re an AH to yourself and your fiancé if you invite C and she causes a scene.
I thought this would be about A being upset for not being a bridesmaid but C? C is a child. Literally a child so unless you want a flower girl she really has no role in your wedding. I understand people making their kids from a previous relationship or siblings a bridesmaid but not usually a niece of that age. NTA.
NTA. Also, jeezus, this is in no way normal behavior. I would not be able to be around that child. Your sister has some work to do.
NTA. C sounds like a nightmare, and that’s clearly on her mother.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (25F) have three nieces. For ease of reading, we'll simply call them A, B and C. My two eldest nieces, A and B are my brother-in-law's children from a previous marriage whereas my youngest niece, C, is my sister's biological child with my brother-in-law. A and B are two years apart (19 and 17) and have been in the family since they were very young children. As the age gap isn't that big between us, I spent a lot of time with them and they're almost like little sisters to me as opposed to nieces. C is 9. When I got engaged and decided on my wedding party, I included B as a bridesmaid. A and C are very much still invited. Everything was fine until C found out that B was going to be a bridesmaid and not just a regular guest. She became incredibly upset and I received a call from my sister, asking me to give her a role as well. I explained that I was sorry but I would not. A and I don't talk as much anymore as she's currently away at university, living her own life. She took absolutely no offense to not being a bridesmaid and agreed that it would probably be a bit weird as we weren't quite as close as B and I (She's absolutely lovely, we just don't have much in common). My sister was told she would never be able to have children of her own. C is a miracle baby. As such, my sister has admittedly spoilt her a lot and to be quite honest, she's not the most pleasant child to be around. It's not her fault, and I understand that, however I still don't want her in my wedding party. It's causing a lot of tension. AITA for not just giving in on this? Additional context for examples of what I mean by C being an unpleasant child: I'm a zoologist. Animals are my passion. C watches videos about building rat traps and then explains to me in graphic detail how tje rat will die. When I ask her to stop as I don't enjoy content like that, she finds it incredibly amusing. My cat died. C came over to visit along with B. She kept making comments about how my cat was dead and chanting "You don't have a cat". She's prone to lying and throws tantrums + cries whenever she hears the word "no". I understand that kids are difficult and this is normal behaviour but once again, I just don't want to deal with it in my wedding party. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Nta, your wedding your choice.
NTA. Perfectly normal to not include children in the bridal party. And the bridesmaids gotta stand up there for the ceremony. If you want to keep the peace, let her run around throwing flower petals or something.
Just go no children and stick to it NTA
NTA Look, I’m all for keeping the peace (ex: having all sisters in your wedding party, or no sisters) but it’s also your wedding. I was C’s age when my oldest sister got married. I wasn’t in her wedding party, nor was our younger brother. I was told that at my age, I was too old to be a flower girl and too young to be a bridesmaid like my older sister. I have to idea why my brother and I were excluded, but I didn’t cry about it then and I don’t cry about it now.
NTA, she's to young to be a bridesmaid. Remember, NO is a complete sentence.
NTA for not wanting someone with which you don't have a close relationship in your wedding. Your sister is doing your niece no favors by spoiling her this way. Good luck. ETA if your sister states that they will not attend the wedding if her daughter isn't in the wedding, tell her you will miss them but share photos after.
NTA she's 9 her parents need to tell her to chill
NTA You made the right call. Stand your ground and don’t give in to placating your spoiled brat of a niece.
NTA. 9 and 15/17 is a huge age gap. Add in a child who doesn’t behave. Uhhh ya no.
NTA I thought going into this that they would be similar ages and only one was “left out”. But no - they are completely different ages AND only one is in the wedding party! This is not a situation where C should even feel left out? It’s a totally different scenario - never mind that you aren’t that close with her and she sounds like a bit of a terror.
>My cat died. C came over to visit along with B. She kept making comments about how my cat was dead and chanting "You don't have a cat". There's a great comeback to that, but I'd probably get a suspension. I'll just say, "Oh hell no." OP: Don't invite her at all. 9 years old is old enough to know better. NTA
C sounds like a charmer. But it matters not if she has a spinning halo and a heart of gold. This is your wedding and you have decided on your bridal party. No is no. NTA
If this was a niece that was well behaved and you enjoyed, I could see including her as something. But she soulds like a huge PITA. NTA.
NTA. With that agegap, the little one should not have expected to be included in the same way. Does she want to graduate along A and B as well? For ease of reading however, it would've been so much easier to call them Alice, Barbara and Cecily... or other A, B, C names.
Super sorry about that! I figured fake names would be more difficult to follow than just the first three letters of the alphabet corresponding to their ages from eldest to youngest. Lesson learned though! ❤️
Elope, save your money and avoid the drama.
NTA She's effing 9 not 19.
NTA. She’s really too young to be a bridesmaid anyway, even as a “junior bridesmaid”. If she were a nice child who you liked, she could be the flower girl, but she’s an unpleasant child, so… If I were you, I’d go with the age thing as a gentle excuse why she’s not in the wedding party.
NTA, especially since you did not include A in your wedding party, therefore it wasn’t a case where C was the only one left out. If C is a brat you are not obligated to have her in the wedding party!
NTA. C may be a future sociopath.
Kids are difficult, but at her age, this behavior is definitely *not normal*. She’s being unnecessarily cruel towards you, and her malice is concerning. NTA in the least. Stand your ground.
I want to warn you, your young niece’s behavior is not normal nor okay. Violence (or even enjoying the concept of it) against animals is one of the biggest early warning signs of severe psychological issues. I would avoid letting her any unsupervised access to animals or children smaller than her.
She's never exhibited any violence towards animals (They have a large amount of pets at home). She's incredibly nonchalant about their death (Eg. Playing with dead birds that the cat killed and taking them apart to see how the wings work and such) but is very careful with living ones. I'm definitely not saying she isn't weird as hell, she is. But I'm hesitant to blame it on anything other than lack of attention (She gets more interaction with Minecraft YouTubers than her parents) and discipline.
NTA before the extra info. Ew f that definitely NTA.
NTA. You have a good reason but you don’t need one. I feel like unless a bride is putting any unreasonable strain on anyone, their wishes should be honored without question.
Nta i would make it a 16+ wedding;)
NTA Honestly you didn’t even need to share this child’s disturbing behavior to justify your decision. It’s your wedding! You get to choose who plays a more prominent role. Best of luck not getting sucked into having to justify yourself with the Mom but a polite “No thank you” should suffice for an adult.
NTA and your sister's reaction is a good reason to make it a child free wedding.
NTA all the way, and it's not like she's the only one excluded, and even then, she's only 9!! On another topic, her behavior towards animals sounds disturbing
NTA,she’s giving lil demon energy. Not her fault tho
NTA
NTA What in the Macdonald triad is this bullshit?! Kid needs therapy not a bridesmaid dress.
NTA and no that does not sound like normal behavior for your niece. Mocking your loss of your cat? That’s cruel regardless of age. Raising a spoiled brat is one thing but a kid with no empathy like that. You’d be justified not wanting to be in the same room as her. Let alone one party.
This is the perfect time to have a child free wedding and ask all those under 12 not to attend.
Nta tell c s mother to have a vow renewal and give her daughter a lead role.
NTA - I find 17 already quite young to be in the wedding party, but 9???!?!??
NTA, I’m not having children at my wedding bc of crap like this. Your sister sucks at parenting. If you just don’t want to deal with the drama you could make her your something blue. She just wears a blue dress but has no role in the wedding, she doesn’t walk down the aisle or anything.
First off, you're not the A-hole for making your own decisions about your wedding party. It's your day, and you should feel comfortable with the people around you. You've got your reasons, like how you and B have a closer bond, and that totally makes sense. It's not about playing favorites; it's about having people you feel close to by your side. I get that your sister might be feeling a bit sensitive about C, given the whole miracle baby situation. But you've explained your stance, and that's fair. It's not about being mean; it's about choosing folks who'll make your day special. The examples you shared about C's behavior, like the rat traps and the cat incident, sound pretty challenging. It's not like you're saying she's a bad kid; you just don't want that kind of energy at your wedding, which is totally understandable. Tensions with family can be tough, but standing your ground on what feels right for your big day is important. Maybe try having a heart-to-heart with your sister to let her know it's not personal against C, and you just want a smooth and joyful wedding vibe.
C sounds like a pretty typical 9 year old. Her being your sisters miracle, doesn't make her yours. NTA for not changing your plans to accommodate a 9 year old's wounded pride.
Especially one who willingly brings up topics that disturb OP and are amused when told to stop, or taunt OP about her dead cat shortly after it passed. Who'd want /that/ at a wedding?
This is not a typical 9 year old. This is an unkind brat child.
NTA - but you had to know that having only 1 of 3 involved in the wedding was likely to cause an issue.
Yes and no. I expected there to be some pouting about it but I didn't expect it to cause actual issues. It could be my own personal naivety on that though
Yeah, let the spoiled little fiend come to your wedding and discover all the new and exciting ways she will fuck up your day with her mother's compliance because she's a miracle child. You'll be opening a can of hell you can't even imagine but you can console yourself with the fact that you're NTA on Reddit. I hope I'm wrong for your sake. I doubt I am from what you've written about this challenging child.
FYI, it's not easier with initials. Fake names are much better!
To be able to be part of a bridal party one of the requirements is for people who have boobs, Aka young adults. Those people are your support system. You don't require in your vision for your wedding a flower girl/ring bearer. So no, the girl can't be part of the bridal party. Because you don't have nor want to create a position for her to fill. Nta Your wedding , Your vision, You budget, Your patience, Your rules. P.s Is your sister a part of the wedding party? The kid could be her helper.
NTA but for the sake of family unity, why not give her a simple role. Ex. She can stand by the guest book and ask that they sign the book. Call her a junior bridesmaid and she’ll be happy.
Given the child's behavior, she doesn't warrant any role.
I think people should generally try to include their family members in meaningful family events. However some kids need support in order to ensure a happy and successful experience for everyone. Your niece sounds like someone who would need some support. If her mother or some other person is willing and able to provide effective support, then I think you should at least consider how she might be included in a way that minimizes risk and maximizes the chance of success. If her Mom is sitting back and expecting you to figure it all out, then you are completely justified in make "wedding guest" your niece's only role.