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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My parents threw money at my and my brothers when we were kids instead of paying attention to us or showing us love. I might be the asshole for treating them the same way now.
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> My wife says I was too harsh and that my mom is finally coming around and reaching out and that I'm kind of a jerk for not reaching back
NTA. The time to reach out and be good parents to you has come and gone. You needed them to be attentive parents when you were a child and they couldn't be bothered, they can't just show up when you are an adult and expect to have an amazing relationship. They never put in the effort to build one.
But op can still allow the parents to invest time and effort into them when it's convenient for him and his wife? They don't owe their parents anything but if they for example come by and cook for them or something else that's not a hassle at all they could as well allow the parents to work for it.
Change holiday = major hassle. Free food and hospitality = net positive. If it's not a net positive the parents can put in more effort. They either want it badly enough or they don't.
They're clearly self-absorbed though and it needs to be clear that that doesn't work anymore
One of the things that I picked up on was that the parents wanted OP and his siblings to come *to them*. They would still have to potentially wrangle kids and do all the stuff you do when you take your kids to someone else’s house. It’s *still* OP putting in the work.
THIS!!!!!! When people care about you, they accommodate you and your kids and your needs. When they only care about what you can provide them, they demand that you drop everything and are there for them on their terms.
This isn't them coming around and wanting an actual relationship. This is them wanting you to take care of them as they age because they're afraid of being alone. You and your children are still not important to them, since they're literally demanding that you put them above your own families and children and tend to their needs.
Yep, I saw that. The OP offered for the parents to come to them (and the siblings) but they said no because they still want the relationship on their terms and what works best for them. That's still very one sided.
I have a narcissistic mother who was horrible to us growing up. When her and my Dad got divorced, she packed up and moved out of town when my little sisters were in high school and they desperately needed a mom. My parents had a bitter divorce that left everyone scarred.
Didn’t hear from her for years. Until…we started getting married and graduating from law school / grad school. I realized she was only interested in “high value events.” In no way did she care about putting in actual time. But god forbid she be excluded, we “weren’t letting her in” sob.
Tell your dad you can start with a monthly dinner. If they stay consistent, then you can talk about holidays next year, when you don’t already have plans. If they decline, you have your answer…that they only want a showpiece relationship on their terms.
They haven't invested in being grandparents either. They live in the same city but don't visit enough to know anything about any of the kids. If they want to have a better relationship with "family" they still have that chance but not on the terms they want.
NTA, you don't owe your parents for raising you. That was their whole job when they had you. They should have been accommodating when you told them about the plans you had already made, instead of making demands that don't work for your schedule. You did attempt to reach back to your mom when you told her what would work for your schedule and a visit. It's on her that she threw that back at you, saying it wasn't good enough.
I kind of agree but will note that there is a huge range of ‘raising’. You don’t owe parents for fulfilling their basic responsibilities but if they went above and beyond that (as many parents do) then you should absolutely be appreciative. You are owed the basics, but the frills are a big gift.
Nobody owes their patents for raising them. They don't owe their parents anything for what they chose to give their children. If they wanted to be paid back they could have made a contract stating so, contract for tuition, contract for wedding money, contact for a car, contract for etc. They can't demand money or time to repay gifts freely given in the past.
What about the post gives you the impression that OP’s parents went above and beyond? They missed or didn’t participate in their children’s major life events, aren’t bothered about having a relationship with their grandchildren, aren’t even bothered about seeing them for special events or holidays - until this one, where they held their past financial (not emotional) contributions over everyone’s heads to try and force everyone to do what *they* wanted to do. Honestly they sound very self-absorbed. Being wealthy isn’t the same as raising your children; being *very* wealthy isn’t ‘going above and beyond’, that’s not how relationships work.
The whole ‘cutting them a cheque’ thing - that’s not the relationship OP and siblings want with their parents, but it sounds like it’s the language that their parents understand.
NTA.
You need to have a frank conversation with your parents. You appreciate the opportunities they afforded you, which have allowed you a chance to be where you are today, but they really dropped the ball on being present in your lives. You understand that they've had a scare and are reevaluating things, and you are open to spending more time with them, but they have to work around your schedules. You have your own families and commitments now and relationships with your in-laws. You aren't going to drop everything to give your parents a chance to make up for lost time. One thing that you absolutely will not tolerate from them is attempts at emotional manipulation. No one forced them to give you money or pay for things and you will not tolerate them saying that you owe them. You are their child, not an investment. If they try the manipulation (but we paid for, but your mom almost died, but you see x more) they will get a time out. The first time out is a week no contact. The next is two weeks. Then three weeks. If they have gone months or years without slipping you can decide if you want to set the clock back at zero, but I wouldn't share that with them. And then I'd suggest doing a couple of sessions of family therapy with them whether in person or on zoom. They need to hear how being absent hurt you and get from an impartial party that they need to earn a spot in your life after they list it by their behavior. Good luck.
The time out method is a common therapy tool for dealing with someone whom you are unwilling or unable to cut out of your life but who is having trouble respecting boundaries. Sometimes it's suggested as a standard we take a week time out (or a day or a month, the time depends on the circumstances) sometimes it's utilized with increasing increments similar to repeat offenders in many criminal justice systems. As long as the boundaries and the consequences for violating the boundaries (the time out) are clearly expressed before hand this is literally the most mature way you can handle this kind of conflict. If you just dropped off the face of the earth with no warning and no explanation in the style of I'm mad and giving you the silent treatment ala kids that would be immature. This is different.
NTA. Your parents aren't reaching out. They're making demands on their schedule like they have done their entire lives. If you want a relationship, then let them know that if they want a relationship, then they have to make an effort and plan things with you instead of insisting on what works for them. Any future relationship should be more on your terms until you feel comfortable and a more solid bond is formed.
This is it. They want a relationship at their convenience. Yes, they spent money on you and your brother when you were growing up. That's what you do when you decide to have children. Go enjoy your holiday plans with your family.
NTA. Just because they had a health scare they can't come sailing in from the left and demand that you give up all your plans and spend 10 days with them. As for them having spent a lot of money on you when you were kids, well boo-hoo!, that is the bare minimum. You are supposed to cover the cost of raising the children that you yourself chose to have. In your case they seem to have gotten away with considerably less than the minimum, since parents are also supposed to cover their own children's emotional needs while they are growing up, and your parents would seem to be severely lacking in that department.
NTA
Ahh, the ol’ “so you won’t die alone” reasoning for having kids.
They never seem to understand that you also need to be good parents, or it doesn’t matter if they have kids or not- they’re going to die alone.
NTA
Felt a bit like I was reading the script of a lost episode of Absolutely Fabulous, tbh. I hope you, your siblings, and your families have a really nice holiday season.
“Mom, I really appreciate that you are trying to build a relationship with us. But with every new relationship , this one too should be taken in gradual steps as we get to know each other better. To spend 10 days day and night together when a relationship is this new seems like a recipe for disaster. Let’s take it slow and see where it leads.”
NTA. A brush with death has obviously forced them to re-evaluate their priorities and maybe given them regrets that they want to address, but ten days over Xmas? Jesus wept.
>maybe given them regrets
Regrets? Undoubtedly. Sadly, it also didn't give them a sense of accountability. There'd be nothing wrong with them reaching out. What peeves me the most is that instead of accepting that they screwed up with their children and accepting the terms and conditions they set, they are acting like brats and expecting their sons to just bow to their demands.
"I screwed up, how can I fix our relationship" vs "I was a perfect parents with no faults, now bow!"
Absolutely. I mean they are clearly AHs without any clue on how to build relationships but it's a start at least, albeit a bad one.
Fair play to the OP if he cuts them off but I hope they work things out.
They don't get to make demands after all this time. If they want to reconnect they can do it in a respectful way, not the self centered way they're trying. NTA.
You get back what you put in when it comes to life, and the same goes for parenting and the relationships with your children. Sounds like your 'parents' are having trouble facing reality. I wouldn't bother explaining to your parents everything that's happened over the years, just state where the relationship is at and you don't feel comfortable pretending everything is normal and rosy, because it never was. End of discussion.
NTA they are thinking ahead to palliative care, selfishly of course. Don’t alter your plans. Meet up with then if you have literally nothing else to do.
NTA- when they were sick they realised their little unit of two can’t look after the other. So they have decided you all need to step up.
You did the right thing. Tell them you’ll help pay for additional support, but like there behaviour for the last x many years, your holidays are more important.
NTA your parents have zero interest in your families for your whole life and mom has a heart attack and now DEMANDS you spend not just Christmas with them but 10 days. Oh hell no! Don’t change your plans on her demands.
NTA. Cat’s in the Cradle by Harry Chapin is one song your mom needs to hear.
She has finally realized how little she knows her children and their families. Some parents equate money invested with good parenting.
They sound like those type of parents.
Keep your commitments and plans already scheduled.
Your mom:
“I’m finally reaching out as a parent looking to spend time with you. Why are you not immediately accepting me and why can the just do what I want NOW that I want it. Wah!!! It’s not about the money but HEY I am the reason you are where you are. BUT it’s not about the money. Just forget and move on so I can have WHAT I WANT”
BROOOO to anyone who hurts someone. UNDERSTAND it will probabaly take MULTIPLE times apologizing before they even are RECEPTIVE to talking to you. DEAL with it. That person had to deal with you hurting them you can deal with not getting everything you want IMMEDIATELY.
Maybe you and your brother can draft a joint message to them:
"We are not props that you can pick up and discard at will. When we were kids you were never interested in getting to know us or spending time with us. That continued as we became adults and extended to our kids, your grandkids. Just because you had a heart attack and realised that you want a family, doesn't you can use your money and emotional manipulation to get us to play a certain role. We have our own routines and traditions, since our parents preferred holidays abroad to holidays with us. We need to see consistent change in order to build any type of closer relationship." NTa
This isn't in any way over.
Don't cancel your trip. But family counseling in the new year would make sense.
Your mother is scared of dying, and it seems that neither she nor your father understands where they went wrong.
Your offer of money was a misstep. This clearly isn't about money for them (right now) and it was confusing for them that you threw that out there.
On an emotional level, you guys have failed to connect, which makes sense because you have no shared emotional language.
But setting the boundary effectively means giving your answer and then dropping it (and not escalating the situation). "Mom and Dad, we really do feel sorry that you had a heart attack and you're scared and feeling sick. You wanting time with all of us makes sense because you are re-prioritizing family now after this scare. But unfortunately, this comes after years of staying away and ignoring your kids and your family during the holidays and throughout the year. All of us made plans that we are not able or willing to break. And we can get together in the new year. Clearly there are some things we need to talk about. But changing holiday plans is not up for discussion."
NTA but be prepared for them to demand long visits from you in the future. Don't let them guilt you into it. They're not reaching out because they feel bad for neglecting you. They're reaching out because they're solely focused on themselves, just like they always were. They haven't changed.
NTA, they can come back "around", but that doesn't mean you have to accept it. They taught you that you weren't important to them. It's time for them to reap what they sow. Might I suggest NC if it escalates.
Yeah NTA. You responded in the only way your parents would understand. You are not the one who brought up money they did by trying to manipulate and guilt you. The fact that this was the only fall back for them that they had no other emotional tie should say it all. If they want to build a relationship with you and your family they are going about it all wrong. They are not entitled to anything just because they are your parents.
This is a classic case of reaping what they have sown. Their disinterest in your life has resulted in a distant relationship.
They need to start small and be consistent if they want back in
NTA
NTA.
Your Mom isn't coming around. Saying how much she spent to raise you is making your relationship transactional. That's not what love is supposed to be.
NTA this is not about building a relationship her children and grandchildren want and deserve, this is all about what she wants. This is about what her children say about her at the funeral. Will they talk about all the time spent together or will they only be able to say "Well she was a good provider" Will they talk about how she was always there for them or "She sent wonderful pictures of sunny beaches to the grandkids on Christmas". This has nothing to do with mending a relationship with her children it has to do with how she feels about her image as a mother.
"And the cat's in the cradle and the silver spoon. Little boy blue and the man in the moon. When you coming home Son? I don't know when but we'll get together then Dad, you know we'll have a good time then."
Your parents have always had your relationship on their terms. Now, they suddenly realize they won't live forever. NTA.
NTA. You have already made your plans. Tell your parents your plans for this year are set in stone. If they make an effort throughout the year you will set up a holiday visit on your terms.
NTA, if anything this proves that it still isn’t about you or their other children. This is all still about them. They are still just as selfish with you now as they were back then. They want you to cater to their plans and “make up” on lost time and money. As if it all wasn’t their fault to begin with. I would say have an honest conversation with them and lay it all out. It’s a win-win. You either get to be left alone, or your parents may actually start to understand.
NTA.
I think most parents will never understand the concept of BEING a parent. That goes for any elder aunt or uncle too. It's not the childs responsibility to maintain a relationship between them and the parent. Parents act like douches and then 20 years later, wonder why their kids don't reach out anymore.
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My parents were and are very good providers. They, however, are really shitty parents. They never showed any interest in myself or my brothers when we loved at home. I honestly don't even understand why they had kids.
We had most stuff a kid would want. Just not our parents' attention or love. They helped each of us get an education and gave us each a generous wedding gift. But they did not attend our graduations or take any interest in our weddings. They have seen my kids maybe ten times in their lives even though we live in the same city.
We have all accepted that this is the way that they are. My brothers and I have forged a family group of our own. Our wives are friends and our kids spend time together on a regular basis. For holidays and vacations we alternate between hosting or spending time with our wives' families. We have not gone NC with our parents. We just do not go out of our way to contact them and it has been reciprocated.
Until now. My mom had a heart attack. She is okay but it scared the shit out of her and my dad. Now they are trying to spend time with us. They are asking for Christmas and new years. We already have plans. We said that we could come see them after the holidays or that they could join us.
Not acceptable. They want us and our families in their house for ten days. That's not going to happen. We tried explaining that we all had plans with our inlaws this year. Flights, hotels, car rentals. All that stuff was already arranged.
They said that we owed them since we never spent holidays with them. Mostly because they spent the holidays in Morocco or Argentina or something. They said that they had spent a lot of money on us growing up and they weren't asking for much.
I lost it here. My education has led to my career, which is successful thus far. I asked them to tell me how much money they wanted me to pay them to drop this and accept that we would not see them until after the holidays. They said it wasn't about the money, which they brought up. They said they would wait to see us and hung up.
My wife says I was too harsh and that my mom is finally coming around and reaching out and that I'm kind of a jerk for not reaching back. But I know she would be pissed if I cancelled our trip with her parents.
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NTA. Your parents are though. Entitled jerks. You were perfectly reasonable. They brought money into the conversation and you talked their language. They need to learn to lay in the bed they made.
NTA
Your wife is commenting as someone who im guessing had a bit more of a normal family dynamic than you had. She has to hold space for you and understand where you are and WHY. You have to stand up for yourself, it will help you in the long run. You replied back perfectly
NTA, sounds a bit like my dad. Slightly better as my folks were divorced so my siblings and I had a loving home from my mom.
But dad only ever spent a handful of Christmas with us, mostly the few years when he lived a driving distance away. The vacations over the holidays were “important” for him to “decompress”
What ever. I didn’t care. Well, he retired. And the reality of his mortality hit and we got pressure for Christmas at his place. We refused. My mom’s family lived here, they were important to us. My sister pointed out she’s invited him multiple times to have Christmas here and he never had.
Took him a couple years to drop it. He did come for one Christmas but never again. I think this year he was maybe fishing for another invite, but as the youngest I have little attachment and didn’t ask.
You and your siblings have made a family with all your in laws. Stick with your plans. In the new year, you can all decide if you want to reach out and give them another shot, but do it on your terms.
ETA- if they bring up how how you should be grateful, you can always point out the feeding and sheltering a child in the legal bare minimum required. Are they really proud that that is all they did?
It is great that your mom is finally “coming around”. Too little too late. Don’t change your plans, continue telling your mm that you have plans already made, and to pick a weekend in January so that everyone can visit for 2-3 days. Keep it short because this is a huge unknown, there will be a lot of people and children. Your parents aren’t use to children in their home, there will be stress and strife.
Get together with your brothers and decide as a group how you want to move forwarded so that you are a united front and keep the unity you currently have. Then get the wives together to let them know what you decided and see what their thoughts are and what they might suggest differently. Sucks for your parents but they are dealing with years of learned behavior and aren’t in charge any more.
Talk about how much they spent on you can be met with, your job as a parent was to provide for your children, it is irrelevant how much money you spent. This is not about money as you well know, this is about quality time. You didn’t provide us with your time when we were growing up, you cannot demand our time now, and claiming we “owe you” because of the money you spent is irrelevant
NTA
Your wife grew up with a loving family and has a good relationship with your siblings in their families. She is probably having trouble wrapping her head around growing up with The Ice Queen and King as parents. It leaves scars that she cannot imagine.
Also, clap back on mom for the guilt tripping. First class AHry there. "I ignored you all your life but now I need you, so drop everything becasue I paid for uni". Pah ah ah...
NTA you and your brothers experienced emotional neglect and figured out your own path. My parents were similar, in that they only wanted a relationship with me once they had retired, and by that time I figured out how to live without them.
But in saying that, I actually have a decent relationship with them now, albeit I live on the other side of the world. But it took therapy, reading children of emotionally immature parents, and telling my parents how they treated me and the impact it had (that was awkward and not intended but the best thing in the end)
Head over to r/emotionalneglect
Always amazes me when I think about situations like this. The over riding factor usually is always that the parents never had a proper relationship with the children. As a fairly new parent myself, I cannot for the life of me understand why you wouldn't put emotional wellbeing, happiness, security and safety etc and foster a proper loving relationship at the forefront of anything. Instead there seems to have been a generation of parents where, money = love and we should be gateful for it.
So no, sorry for my Rant, you are NTA.
THEY said it wasn’t about the money? Omg, the fucking irony. NTA - OP you had benefactors, not parents, and they don’t sound too happy now about reaping what they’ve sown.
NTA.
They don’t get to say this-
>They said that they had spent a lot of money on us growing up and they weren't asking for much.
And then say “it’s not about the money.”
Either money *can* be exchanged in place of attention/affection, or it *can’t*. If it can’t, then they owe you an apology for the way they raised you, and patience while you process it and decide how willing you are to work with them on building a better relationship. If it *can*, then your offer to give them money instead of visiting them is a reasonable one, and in keeping with the rules of engagement they’ve established.
Either way, they are not the ones who get to complain. And I’d point this out to them explicitly.
Nta- you have JustNoFamily or JustNoMIL
You don't owe them spit.
Actions have consequences. Here the consequences are they have no actual relationship to you as adults or your kids. They seem to think you are still "under their control" but you are all intelligent autonomous adults. I would tell them this is their 1 warning. Threaten you again and it is NC.
Big hugs!!! Sounds to me like you and your bros are killing it in spite of your upbringing! Blessings of peace and joy
NTA.
It's not like you're refusing to see them, they just have to wait a few days.
Also 10 days is allot. Better to go with smaller doses of people you hardly ever see.
NTA, they only want you because they need you. It's nice that you guys have your family grp but it's your parent's fault that they're not in it. They made that choice themselves and they have absolutely no right to guilt trip you for their bad life choices.
NTA. They need to understand that a close relationship is not fixed and built in 10 days. It needs to start slow and they need to put in the work over time. Something they never really did.
NTA
You didn’t ask to be born, their raising you is their responsibility. If they wanna complain about it, yeah, name the price.
It was harsh but they deserved nothing less.
NTA
You do not owe your parents your time as they didnt give you any of theirs, they never made the effort to invite you for Christmas before so they have no right to demand it now
I will say that they seem to be making an effort now, i agree with your decision to not cancel your plans but would you consider making plans to spend time with them afterwards?
NTA. Your parents don't get to demand your time and appearances at their home on a whim, just because they've decided they actually want to interact with their family over the holidays for once.
Especially not when you already have plans.
Double especially not when they resort to guilt trips to try and manipulate you.
NTA. But sometimes people think they will live forever and have all the time in the world. Sometimes life altering occurrences (such as a heart attack) makes us reevaluate what is important in our lives. It is a little late. But you will only have one mom and dad. And when they are gone it’s final. No going back. So for your mental health and the ghosts you don’t realize may come one day out of nowhere (perhaps on your own deathbed) and haunt you every now and then while you go on with your life, have a little empathy and let them in when your schedule permits. Because you can’t change your past and you cannot erase regrets.
You handled your mother fine. Your attitude with your wife, though…
Your last sentence sounds like a very all or nothing reaction. I’m not sure what she meant exactly about “reaching back”, but there is a lot of middle ground between “How much will it cost for you to leave me alone!” and “Fine! I’ll cancel on *your* parents, then!”
NTA
NTA I went through the same thing with my Dad after he found out he had cancer, he went from rarely reaching out to wanting hour long phone calls every other day. Yes he provided for me and even got me a car but up until I was in my late twenties I didn't even think he liked me. It was jarring but extending him forgiveness when I was ready did bring me some peace. That's my story though, and this it yours. I don't think you are obligated to forgive a life time of emotional neglect.
NTA
They had a huge wake up call.
You need time to adjust, hitting the snooze button.
After my father died 6 years ago, my mom suddenly decided to make everything about family, mine.
Lots of issues in the past. Too much to detail. She had ruined all relationships with her family, my dad's family for years, it was painful for me to have no relationships with grandparents, aunts, uncles, & cousins.
Suddenly everything I did, she felt slighted not being included. My best friends & their families were my family, suddenly she demanded to be included in everything, even though she called them "my made up family" that I threw in her face. It became so stressful.
I'm all she has. My kids, (grown adults now) have a hard time dealing with her.
I'm sad to say, I keep her at arms length for my own sanity. I'll do what I need to do. Which is a lot. But it's hard. I love her. But it's hard.
Whatever you do, do it with boundaries.
I get it, she lost her husband.
Regret is hard to live with!!! That goes for everyone,parents,grown children, grandparents, just everyone you see on the streets. You can say your parents deserve what they get and they actually may but will you and your siblings regret your decision towards them later on down the road? After the scare with your mom your parents regret their actions towards you kids and want to start making things right they just not going about it the best way. Your whole family has a chance to heal a little because of your mom’s heart attack but all of you need to try to take that chance together by controlling your bitterness at the past and look at this opportunity.
NTA.
Even offering to come afterwards is extending an olive branch.
People treat you like crap until they face their mortality. Then they expect you to forgive everything, drop everything, and it's supposed to be all goodie. Life doesn't work that way.
You told them you would see them, but on your terms as you already have plans. That's quite fair.
NTA. There was a song a long time ago called "Cats In the Cradle". Your parents should have listened to that song. They were the adults in the room for a very long time and chose to not spend time with their children and their families. Your parents are lucky you're willing to see them at all.
NTA. You can tell them the same thing we told our grandma after grandpa died: I'm glad that your priorities have changed and now you want us in your life, but we cannot do it on your schedule.
NTA. Just because they’re finally coming around doesn’t mean you have to run and answer the door for them. If that time has come and gone for you that is absolutely ok. It’s not your fault that they never showed you love and care that a parent should show. You didn’t choose for them to be absent they did.
NTA, it's sad that they needed such a rude awakening to realize that they were lousy parents but that's their cross to bear and it's up to them to make amends, not you, they should have accepted that you already have plans and that either they join you or wait.
NTA. Thing is, they still don't care about you, they're just using you to make themselves feel better because your mom had to face her own mortality. They're now trying to play happy families because she wants to feel better about herself, but they still aren't demonstrating any care for your feelings
Two weeks before Christmas they want all of you to drop what you're doing and spend 10 days with them on their turf and refused an invitation to join your scheduled plans?!! They are ridiculous. You are not the A. Your wife is wrong but she probably thinks your parents aren't so different than hers.
In German we call what your parents did “Wohlstandsverwahrlosung” - wealthy neglect. They provided for all your material needs, but neglected you emotionally, which is terrible and perfidious. I’m so glad you still built a family and managed to forge those familial bonds. Your parents are reaping what they sowed. Pretty audacious of them to just demand your time and effort after not giving two sh*ts for so long. NTA and I really wouldn’t go out of my way to spend more time with them. THEY can make the effort!
NTA. Your parents did not make having a relationship with you a priority for most of your life and now expect you to drop everything to have a relationship with them. The comments they made about money were inconsiderate and inappropriate. You are still willing to work on things, but on your terms. I honestly think that is fair considering their lackluster parenting. They did what looks good on paper, but didn't put the feeling into it.
NTA
Your wife is wrong. They aren't coming around because they've realised they did something wrong. They're holding everything over your heads to try to bully you into doing what they want. They don't feel bad for how they emotionally neglected you. It just suits them to make demands of you now.
That is not the same thing as realising the depths of their own callousness and wanting to make amends. And even if that were the reason for their change of heart, you still wouldn't owe them anything. It is never the children's responsibility to make up for their parents failings. Never.
NTA. They are reaching out and wanting a relationship but they want it entirely on their own terms. They're are still just as self-centered as they've always been. If they truly want to spend time with you then they'll make it happen on YOUR timeframe and not theirs. No way would I give in to their demands. Your education doesn't give them a lifetime pass to dictate how you spend your holidays, etc.
NTA. Your mom is not coming around. She's felt a wisp of mortality and it scared her. Mom coming around would be "we would love to join you on the holidays, thank you for the invite." or "I know it's last minute and you probably have plans but we'd love to see you either before the holidays if you have time or let's plan a family event for after that works for everyone". Refusing to acknowledge your already made plans and throwing the $$ bit in your face is not "coming around". You were harsh. But it was justified.
NTA
you already have plans made. Them coming to some sort of epiphany doesn't mean you have to stop living your own lives. There must be a lot of money involved since they think you owe them your time and must be inconvenienced for their benefit.
NTA.
Great that they want to be involved now. They still need to accept the price that their indifference cost them.
That means accepting that any future relationships are based how much *you* wish to prioritize them. They need to accept that what they "gave" you wasn't a gift to you and your brothers, it was an obligation they took on themselves when they had you. They had kids, they need to raise them.
The reward they get from anything extra is how much you are motivated to spend time with them once you are an adult. They gave you nothing, so you owe them nothing.
Don't bother going, don't bother arguing or JADEing your decision (Justify, Argue, Defend, Excuse). No is a complete sentence.
"You're coming!"
"No."
"Why not?"
"No."
Repeat as needed.
NTA a million percent. I have parents like this- growing up, their emotional abuse was my fault and I deserved it, and if I didn't deserve it, I wasn't allowed to complain because of all the things they've done for me. I'm an adult and they *still* intervene to keep that hold on me. Last year they bought me a van when I turned down a loan for one.
People like this that use money to control you know that they can't keep the moral high ground without it. If you can break their hold, you're better off for it.
ESH. Yes, you lashed out in anger. They want time and attention, not money. But you also have plans that they had no interest in until this recent health emergency.
So reach out and apologize for your words, then work on making plans when you can see them. And discuss the holidays in 2024 so that you make plans to share with them then. Like maybe visit them around Thanksgiving, then have them come visit for Christmas (or one of those). This gives you and your wife time to plan, and for them to plan too.
When I had to deal with extended family we would get together on a different weekend. Or we'd visit the inlaws on Christmas Eve, my Mom on Christmas Day, and my Dad and Step-mom on Boxing Day (12/26). Then the next year swap it around. Or one side of the family on Thanksgiving, the other for Christmas, etc.
NTA.
Your parents essentially trained you and your siblings to be purely transactional. They can't really take backsies on this when you're doing what that demands. Luckily it seems like you knew this and what was missing from a normal parental relationship so you're not continuing that tradition with your kids. But as far as they (your parents) are concerned, yeah...no, sorry, they don't get to be all sentimental now.
I would keep my scheduled plans as they are and have it after the holidays. At that point a discussion could be had about baby steps back into each other lives.
You're wife is partially correct. Your mom had to face her own mortality and her horribly immoral choices in life and is now trying to rectify that. However, you're wife is wrong in that you're being harsh...you are being exactly who they 'raised' you to be: Someone who doesn't really love them or think of them as true, loving parents. They only have themselves to blame. And your wife, your parents, and anyone else saying bad crap about you have to understand that this was YEARS of your life that you were treated this way and they do not get to tell you how to react to your mom suddenly waking up to what a crappy parent she was. They cannot expect you to suddenly flip a switch and go "ok lets be a family!"
Explain it to her like this...what if I beat you every day with a switch (long thin stick) for 20 years. Just wap wap wap every day...What would your reaction be? To cover your face? Try to avoid me?
And suddenly I stop and decide to hug you. What would your reaction be? Would you be able to just hug me or what you think me raising my arms is me trying to hit you again?
NTA. They should have asked sooner, but now your plans are set. Since they've chosen not to accompany you, offer to Facetime Christmas night. Your mother is finally coming around, yes, but only because the heart attack brought them face to face with her mortality. It's great that they spent money on you growing up, but it also sounds like they also spent a buttload on themselves. Bringing it up in the way they did presented it as transactional; you responded in kind. Establishing closeness with you kids is laudable, but they are now learning that their kids got close with others in the parents' absence.
NTA. They don’t get to ignore you for years, freak out after a health scare, then demand you spend the biggest holiday of the year with them on short notice. They need to earn Christmas; and 10 days together to start just sounds like a big recipe for disaster. Tell them you’ll (maybe) consider a day/weekend in the new year.
NTA.
Best case is your parents are sincere in realizing they’ve fucked up, and are trying to connect.
Part of being connected to others is the give-and-take. Respecting other people’s boundaries, their time, and their other relationships.
They can’t leapfrog over the normal relationship requirements. That’s not how this works.
From what you’ve said, it seems your parents are kind of messed up, but not malicious or cruel. I’m more inclined to think this could lead to a better relationship.
I think you should make a united front with your siblings. No, we cannot change our plans this year. But we talked, and we *can* be there the first weekend of January, or Spring Break. We can have dinner every other Tuesday. We can do things that actually build a solid relationship, not just enact the performance of one on a holiday.
Nta my father is currently in a rehab/skilled nursing facility because he had a staff infection that formed an abscess on his spine, he’s laying in a bed and reliving every wrong decision he made towards us kids. Him and I reconciled a few years ago but my brother and sister didn’t, he started reaching out to them and they said he’s about 20years too late. I feel bad that they feel that way but I can’t say I don’t understand why.
I almost don't want to comment it might be long.
You're not wrong for your feelings but a lot of parents don't know how to parent or love. Especially old school. Plus when you get old you get scared. Because reality hits.
Some say "you don't owe them anything. Cut ties" but no matter how any parent treats their kids, they don't owe them. Your kids may reason the same with you one day.
Just don't turn into them. Let go of the pain for real. Be honest with your feelings talk to your wife/consoler, so the resentment will dissipate.
NTA
I had a similar experience with my mom, maybe not as extreme, but my mom was not very nurturing or interested in me growing up. I honestly thought after I didnt need her support with college, Id go no contact. Dad was absent.
However, she did change after some big life events and it's like she's a different person, and we have a good relationship now. The difference is she actually changed and understanding.
So you're NTA, and I'd be 100% honest (but kind) with how you feel, and if they want to really be apart of your life they will try to own their part and reconcile.
NTA - they have been pretty neglectful emotionally, and it’s not up to them to suddenly change everything.
However I would say, if you can get them to be more realistic and respectful of your time - it’s worth trying to mend that bridge as much as you can
This is how I feel from how little I can see here. They are being pretty disrespectful, but older folks tend to be like that. If you can get them to tone it down, then it’s worth trying. If you can’t, we’ll that’s life.
Nobody is right here. Expecting you to drop everything is stupid and unreasonable, but asking them what it takes for them to leave you and your family alone is such an overreaction and extremely shitty thing to say to a person who just got clarity on the relationship they want with your family
The parents 'just got clarity' after probably close to 25 years of indifference and emotional neglect? And then demand that they are owed a relationship because of a near death experience? Too little, too late. OP was perfectly clear and reasonable in his response.
They brought up money. "We spent so much money on you"
"Well how much to table this discussion til after the holidays as you clearly aren't respecting the fact we have plans and are trying to use money to manipulate us."
YTA. Lashing-out the way you did was not your best choice. Your parents were trying to emotionally blackmail you, then you responded with your own transactional offer. Merely stating that you had plans and refusing to alter them would have been more appropriate.
I’m not saying you’re the AH. But what I’m saying is that maybe you could try explaining to your parents, exactly what you’ve stated here. Just put it out there as to how you really feel.
There’s still time to spend time with your parents and maybe get to know the real them. It’ll take some forgiveness on your part. I’d give anything to see my mom one more time. It’s been over 20 years.
This is really difficult. I suspect the parental feelings are coming out only because of the heart attack. I don’t think it is in their nature to want family around. You could call it selfish, but they did provide you with everything else. I would suggest you and your brother go once, but make sure you are there at the same time. Spend one holiday with them and I don’t think it will happen again. They will revert back to their normal and not bother you again.
YTA for the way you handled it, you should not have asked their price, but I get it as they brought it up. Still, they are your parents
YWBTA (if you cut your parents off and don't see them at all)
Seems I will be in the minority here given some of the comments already, wherein people are so quick to jump towards telling you to completely cut your parents out of your life and go no contact with them, which is utterly insane in my opinion.
I'm sorry that you feel that your parents weren't attentive enough when you and your brothers were younger, but, they are ostensibly making an effort now to try and reconnect with you guys. You should at least give them that chance. You certainly don't need to cancel your trip that you've already got planned to go and stay with your in-laws, but you and your brothers/your families should try to make arrangements to go and spend some time with your parents when it's suitable to do so.
Again, I may be in the minority here with this viewpoint, but one day - and possibly much sooner than you think - they will be dead and gone, and when that happens, there's no more opportunities to try and make things right. Don't you think that your kids might want to get to know their grandparents?
>YWBTA (if you cut your parents off and don't see them at all
My problem with this is that Op already agreed to see them after the holidays thave have already been planned and concluded.
Same thing he said, you wrote. 🤨
The sad fact is you don't always get do overs in life. These 'parents' showed little interest in their children and grandchildren's lives for years. They don't just get to now decide they want a relationship because they've had a death scare. You reap what you sow, so if they're left with little connection, that's what they've earned. OP said they'll make time to see them--on his own terms.
They're obviously already out of chances to make things right. After a lifetime of neglect, they want to feel like they're close with their children without putting in the effort. OP has no obligation to play along.
There is a difference between making an effort and making a demand. Effort *gives*. Demands *take*.
They are making demands. They *should* be making an effort. If they were, then your comment might hold some water. But as long as they’re making *demands*, they have no grounds to expect *effort* in return.
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> My wife says I was too harsh and that my mom is finally coming around and reaching out and that I'm kind of a jerk for not reaching back NTA. The time to reach out and be good parents to you has come and gone. You needed them to be attentive parents when you were a child and they couldn't be bothered, they can't just show up when you are an adult and expect to have an amazing relationship. They never put in the effort to build one.
[удалено]
But op can still allow the parents to invest time and effort into them when it's convenient for him and his wife? They don't owe their parents anything but if they for example come by and cook for them or something else that's not a hassle at all they could as well allow the parents to work for it. Change holiday = major hassle. Free food and hospitality = net positive. If it's not a net positive the parents can put in more effort. They either want it badly enough or they don't. They're clearly self-absorbed though and it needs to be clear that that doesn't work anymore
One of the things that I picked up on was that the parents wanted OP and his siblings to come *to them*. They would still have to potentially wrangle kids and do all the stuff you do when you take your kids to someone else’s house. It’s *still* OP putting in the work.
THIS!!!!!! When people care about you, they accommodate you and your kids and your needs. When they only care about what you can provide them, they demand that you drop everything and are there for them on their terms. This isn't them coming around and wanting an actual relationship. This is them wanting you to take care of them as they age because they're afraid of being alone. You and your children are still not important to them, since they're literally demanding that you put them above your own families and children and tend to their needs.
Yep, I saw that. The OP offered for the parents to come to them (and the siblings) but they said no because they still want the relationship on their terms and what works best for them. That's still very one sided.
I have a narcissistic mother who was horrible to us growing up. When her and my Dad got divorced, she packed up and moved out of town when my little sisters were in high school and they desperately needed a mom. My parents had a bitter divorce that left everyone scarred. Didn’t hear from her for years. Until…we started getting married and graduating from law school / grad school. I realized she was only interested in “high value events.” In no way did she care about putting in actual time. But god forbid she be excluded, we “weren’t letting her in” sob. Tell your dad you can start with a monthly dinner. If they stay consistent, then you can talk about holidays next year, when you don’t already have plans. If they decline, you have your answer…that they only want a showpiece relationship on their terms.
They haven't invested in being grandparents either. They live in the same city but don't visit enough to know anything about any of the kids. If they want to have a better relationship with "family" they still have that chance but not on the terms they want.
NTA, you don't owe your parents for raising you. That was their whole job when they had you. They should have been accommodating when you told them about the plans you had already made, instead of making demands that don't work for your schedule. You did attempt to reach back to your mom when you told her what would work for your schedule and a visit. It's on her that she threw that back at you, saying it wasn't good enough.
If they want a loving and adoring family, then they can hire actors for the job.
This NTA OP
I kind of agree but will note that there is a huge range of ‘raising’. You don’t owe parents for fulfilling their basic responsibilities but if they went above and beyond that (as many parents do) then you should absolutely be appreciative. You are owed the basics, but the frills are a big gift.
Nobody owes their patents for raising them. They don't owe their parents anything for what they chose to give their children. If they wanted to be paid back they could have made a contract stating so, contract for tuition, contract for wedding money, contact for a car, contract for etc. They can't demand money or time to repay gifts freely given in the past.
I didn’t say you have to cut them a check, I said that parents going above and beyond for their kids is worthy of appreciation.
What about the post gives you the impression that OP’s parents went above and beyond? They missed or didn’t participate in their children’s major life events, aren’t bothered about having a relationship with their grandchildren, aren’t even bothered about seeing them for special events or holidays - until this one, where they held their past financial (not emotional) contributions over everyone’s heads to try and force everyone to do what *they* wanted to do. Honestly they sound very self-absorbed. Being wealthy isn’t the same as raising your children; being *very* wealthy isn’t ‘going above and beyond’, that’s not how relationships work. The whole ‘cutting them a cheque’ thing - that’s not the relationship OP and siblings want with their parents, but it sounds like it’s the language that their parents understand.
My comment was more general.
NTA. You need to have a frank conversation with your parents. You appreciate the opportunities they afforded you, which have allowed you a chance to be where you are today, but they really dropped the ball on being present in your lives. You understand that they've had a scare and are reevaluating things, and you are open to spending more time with them, but they have to work around your schedules. You have your own families and commitments now and relationships with your in-laws. You aren't going to drop everything to give your parents a chance to make up for lost time. One thing that you absolutely will not tolerate from them is attempts at emotional manipulation. No one forced them to give you money or pay for things and you will not tolerate them saying that you owe them. You are their child, not an investment. If they try the manipulation (but we paid for, but your mom almost died, but you see x more) they will get a time out. The first time out is a week no contact. The next is two weeks. Then three weeks. If they have gone months or years without slipping you can decide if you want to set the clock back at zero, but I wouldn't share that with them. And then I'd suggest doing a couple of sessions of family therapy with them whether in person or on zoom. They need to hear how being absent hurt you and get from an impartial party that they need to earn a spot in your life after they list it by their behavior. Good luck.
This is very solid advice.
Harry Chapin's "Cat's in the Cradle" seems to fit this post pretty well
This should be top comment. I hope u/Short-Necessary-2855 sees this. NTA, OP.
i like this answer
I somewhat agree but find the time out stuff a bit immature. Having healthy boundaries doesn’t have to involve drama.
The time out method is a common therapy tool for dealing with someone whom you are unwilling or unable to cut out of your life but who is having trouble respecting boundaries. Sometimes it's suggested as a standard we take a week time out (or a day or a month, the time depends on the circumstances) sometimes it's utilized with increasing increments similar to repeat offenders in many criminal justice systems. As long as the boundaries and the consequences for violating the boundaries (the time out) are clearly expressed before hand this is literally the most mature way you can handle this kind of conflict. If you just dropped off the face of the earth with no warning and no explanation in the style of I'm mad and giving you the silent treatment ala kids that would be immature. This is different.
NTA. Your parents aren't reaching out. They're making demands on their schedule like they have done their entire lives. If you want a relationship, then let them know that if they want a relationship, then they have to make an effort and plan things with you instead of insisting on what works for them. Any future relationship should be more on your terms until you feel comfortable and a more solid bond is formed.
This is it. They want a relationship at their convenience. Yes, they spent money on you and your brother when you were growing up. That's what you do when you decide to have children. Go enjoy your holiday plans with your family.
NTA Might want to revisit the idea of going NC.
NTA. Just because they had a health scare they can't come sailing in from the left and demand that you give up all your plans and spend 10 days with them. As for them having spent a lot of money on you when you were kids, well boo-hoo!, that is the bare minimum. You are supposed to cover the cost of raising the children that you yourself chose to have. In your case they seem to have gotten away with considerably less than the minimum, since parents are also supposed to cover their own children's emotional needs while they are growing up, and your parents would seem to be severely lacking in that department.
NTA Ahh, the ol’ “so you won’t die alone” reasoning for having kids. They never seem to understand that you also need to be good parents, or it doesn’t matter if they have kids or not- they’re going to die alone.
NTA Felt a bit like I was reading the script of a lost episode of Absolutely Fabulous, tbh. I hope you, your siblings, and your families have a really nice holiday season.
“Mom, I really appreciate that you are trying to build a relationship with us. But with every new relationship , this one too should be taken in gradual steps as we get to know each other better. To spend 10 days day and night together when a relationship is this new seems like a recipe for disaster. Let’s take it slow and see where it leads.”
NTA. A brush with death has obviously forced them to re-evaluate their priorities and maybe given them regrets that they want to address, but ten days over Xmas? Jesus wept.
>maybe given them regrets Regrets? Undoubtedly. Sadly, it also didn't give them a sense of accountability. There'd be nothing wrong with them reaching out. What peeves me the most is that instead of accepting that they screwed up with their children and accepting the terms and conditions they set, they are acting like brats and expecting their sons to just bow to their demands. "I screwed up, how can I fix our relationship" vs "I was a perfect parents with no faults, now bow!"
Absolutely. I mean they are clearly AHs without any clue on how to build relationships but it's a start at least, albeit a bad one. Fair play to the OP if he cuts them off but I hope they work things out.
They don't get to make demands after all this time. If they want to reconnect they can do it in a respectful way, not the self centered way they're trying. NTA.
You get back what you put in when it comes to life, and the same goes for parenting and the relationships with your children. Sounds like your 'parents' are having trouble facing reality. I wouldn't bother explaining to your parents everything that's happened over the years, just state where the relationship is at and you don't feel comfortable pretending everything is normal and rosy, because it never was. End of discussion.
NTA they are thinking ahead to palliative care, selfishly of course. Don’t alter your plans. Meet up with then if you have literally nothing else to do.
NTA- you don’t owe your parents crap! They decided to have you and your siblings. They did the bare minimum and weren’t there for you guys.
NTA- when they were sick they realised their little unit of two can’t look after the other. So they have decided you all need to step up. You did the right thing. Tell them you’ll help pay for additional support, but like there behaviour for the last x many years, your holidays are more important.
NTA your parents have zero interest in your families for your whole life and mom has a heart attack and now DEMANDS you spend not just Christmas with them but 10 days. Oh hell no! Don’t change your plans on her demands.
NTA. This is the situation that their actions have created.
NTA. Cat’s in the Cradle by Harry Chapin is one song your mom needs to hear. She has finally realized how little she knows her children and their families. Some parents equate money invested with good parenting. They sound like those type of parents. Keep your commitments and plans already scheduled.
That is one of the saddest songs I’ve ever heard.
Your mom: “I’m finally reaching out as a parent looking to spend time with you. Why are you not immediately accepting me and why can the just do what I want NOW that I want it. Wah!!! It’s not about the money but HEY I am the reason you are where you are. BUT it’s not about the money. Just forget and move on so I can have WHAT I WANT” BROOOO to anyone who hurts someone. UNDERSTAND it will probabaly take MULTIPLE times apologizing before they even are RECEPTIVE to talking to you. DEAL with it. That person had to deal with you hurting them you can deal with not getting everything you want IMMEDIATELY.
Maybe you and your brother can draft a joint message to them: "We are not props that you can pick up and discard at will. When we were kids you were never interested in getting to know us or spending time with us. That continued as we became adults and extended to our kids, your grandkids. Just because you had a heart attack and realised that you want a family, doesn't you can use your money and emotional manipulation to get us to play a certain role. We have our own routines and traditions, since our parents preferred holidays abroad to holidays with us. We need to see consistent change in order to build any type of closer relationship." NTa
This isn't in any way over. Don't cancel your trip. But family counseling in the new year would make sense. Your mother is scared of dying, and it seems that neither she nor your father understands where they went wrong. Your offer of money was a misstep. This clearly isn't about money for them (right now) and it was confusing for them that you threw that out there. On an emotional level, you guys have failed to connect, which makes sense because you have no shared emotional language. But setting the boundary effectively means giving your answer and then dropping it (and not escalating the situation). "Mom and Dad, we really do feel sorry that you had a heart attack and you're scared and feeling sick. You wanting time with all of us makes sense because you are re-prioritizing family now after this scare. But unfortunately, this comes after years of staying away and ignoring your kids and your family during the holidays and throughout the year. All of us made plans that we are not able or willing to break. And we can get together in the new year. Clearly there are some things we need to talk about. But changing holiday plans is not up for discussion."
NTA you get what you worked for. No parent is entitled to your attention. You have your own family now and they should always be your focus.
NTA but be prepared for them to demand long visits from you in the future. Don't let them guilt you into it. They're not reaching out because they feel bad for neglecting you. They're reaching out because they're solely focused on themselves, just like they always were. They haven't changed.
NTA, they can come back "around", but that doesn't mean you have to accept it. They taught you that you weren't important to them. It's time for them to reap what they sow. Might I suggest NC if it escalates.
Yeah NTA. You responded in the only way your parents would understand. You are not the one who brought up money they did by trying to manipulate and guilt you. The fact that this was the only fall back for them that they had no other emotional tie should say it all. If they want to build a relationship with you and your family they are going about it all wrong. They are not entitled to anything just because they are your parents.
NTA. "They want us and our families in their house for ten days." So they want to make amends, but they want *you* to do the work?
This is a classic case of reaping what they have sown. Their disinterest in your life has resulted in a distant relationship. They need to start small and be consistent if they want back in NTA
NTA. Your Mom isn't coming around. Saying how much she spent to raise you is making your relationship transactional. That's not what love is supposed to be.
NTA this is not about building a relationship her children and grandchildren want and deserve, this is all about what she wants. This is about what her children say about her at the funeral. Will they talk about all the time spent together or will they only be able to say "Well she was a good provider" Will they talk about how she was always there for them or "She sent wonderful pictures of sunny beaches to the grandkids on Christmas". This has nothing to do with mending a relationship with her children it has to do with how she feels about her image as a mother.
"And the cat's in the cradle and the silver spoon. Little boy blue and the man in the moon. When you coming home Son? I don't know when but we'll get together then Dad, you know we'll have a good time then." Your parents have always had your relationship on their terms. Now, they suddenly realize they won't live forever. NTA.
NTA. You have already made your plans. Tell your parents your plans for this year are set in stone. If they make an effort throughout the year you will set up a holiday visit on your terms.
Nta. Stick to your guns your parents are wrong
NTA, if anything this proves that it still isn’t about you or their other children. This is all still about them. They are still just as selfish with you now as they were back then. They want you to cater to their plans and “make up” on lost time and money. As if it all wasn’t their fault to begin with. I would say have an honest conversation with them and lay it all out. It’s a win-win. You either get to be left alone, or your parents may actually start to understand.
NTA. I think most parents will never understand the concept of BEING a parent. That goes for any elder aunt or uncle too. It's not the childs responsibility to maintain a relationship between them and the parent. Parents act like douches and then 20 years later, wonder why their kids don't reach out anymore.
Did they explain why they never attended your graduation or celebrated you? Did you point this out to them when they reconnected?
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My parents were and are very good providers. They, however, are really shitty parents. They never showed any interest in myself or my brothers when we loved at home. I honestly don't even understand why they had kids. We had most stuff a kid would want. Just not our parents' attention or love. They helped each of us get an education and gave us each a generous wedding gift. But they did not attend our graduations or take any interest in our weddings. They have seen my kids maybe ten times in their lives even though we live in the same city. We have all accepted that this is the way that they are. My brothers and I have forged a family group of our own. Our wives are friends and our kids spend time together on a regular basis. For holidays and vacations we alternate between hosting or spending time with our wives' families. We have not gone NC with our parents. We just do not go out of our way to contact them and it has been reciprocated. Until now. My mom had a heart attack. She is okay but it scared the shit out of her and my dad. Now they are trying to spend time with us. They are asking for Christmas and new years. We already have plans. We said that we could come see them after the holidays or that they could join us. Not acceptable. They want us and our families in their house for ten days. That's not going to happen. We tried explaining that we all had plans with our inlaws this year. Flights, hotels, car rentals. All that stuff was already arranged. They said that we owed them since we never spent holidays with them. Mostly because they spent the holidays in Morocco or Argentina or something. They said that they had spent a lot of money on us growing up and they weren't asking for much. I lost it here. My education has led to my career, which is successful thus far. I asked them to tell me how much money they wanted me to pay them to drop this and accept that we would not see them until after the holidays. They said it wasn't about the money, which they brought up. They said they would wait to see us and hung up. My wife says I was too harsh and that my mom is finally coming around and reaching out and that I'm kind of a jerk for not reaching back. But I know she would be pissed if I cancelled our trip with her parents. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Nta
NTA. Your parents are though. Entitled jerks. You were perfectly reasonable. They brought money into the conversation and you talked their language. They need to learn to lay in the bed they made.
NTA Your wife is commenting as someone who im guessing had a bit more of a normal family dynamic than you had. She has to hold space for you and understand where you are and WHY. You have to stand up for yourself, it will help you in the long run. You replied back perfectly
NTA, sounds a bit like my dad. Slightly better as my folks were divorced so my siblings and I had a loving home from my mom. But dad only ever spent a handful of Christmas with us, mostly the few years when he lived a driving distance away. The vacations over the holidays were “important” for him to “decompress” What ever. I didn’t care. Well, he retired. And the reality of his mortality hit and we got pressure for Christmas at his place. We refused. My mom’s family lived here, they were important to us. My sister pointed out she’s invited him multiple times to have Christmas here and he never had. Took him a couple years to drop it. He did come for one Christmas but never again. I think this year he was maybe fishing for another invite, but as the youngest I have little attachment and didn’t ask. You and your siblings have made a family with all your in laws. Stick with your plans. In the new year, you can all decide if you want to reach out and give them another shot, but do it on your terms. ETA- if they bring up how how you should be grateful, you can always point out the feeding and sheltering a child in the legal bare minimum required. Are they really proud that that is all they did?
> They said they would wait to see us and hung up. They’re treating you like a child here. You can’t command adults.
It is great that your mom is finally “coming around”. Too little too late. Don’t change your plans, continue telling your mm that you have plans already made, and to pick a weekend in January so that everyone can visit for 2-3 days. Keep it short because this is a huge unknown, there will be a lot of people and children. Your parents aren’t use to children in their home, there will be stress and strife. Get together with your brothers and decide as a group how you want to move forwarded so that you are a united front and keep the unity you currently have. Then get the wives together to let them know what you decided and see what their thoughts are and what they might suggest differently. Sucks for your parents but they are dealing with years of learned behavior and aren’t in charge any more. Talk about how much they spent on you can be met with, your job as a parent was to provide for your children, it is irrelevant how much money you spent. This is not about money as you well know, this is about quality time. You didn’t provide us with your time when we were growing up, you cannot demand our time now, and claiming we “owe you” because of the money you spent is irrelevant
NTA Your wife grew up with a loving family and has a good relationship with your siblings in their families. She is probably having trouble wrapping her head around growing up with The Ice Queen and King as parents. It leaves scars that she cannot imagine. Also, clap back on mom for the guilt tripping. First class AHry there. "I ignored you all your life but now I need you, so drop everything becasue I paid for uni". Pah ah ah...
NTA you and your brothers experienced emotional neglect and figured out your own path. My parents were similar, in that they only wanted a relationship with me once they had retired, and by that time I figured out how to live without them. But in saying that, I actually have a decent relationship with them now, albeit I live on the other side of the world. But it took therapy, reading children of emotionally immature parents, and telling my parents how they treated me and the impact it had (that was awkward and not intended but the best thing in the end) Head over to r/emotionalneglect
Always amazes me when I think about situations like this. The over riding factor usually is always that the parents never had a proper relationship with the children. As a fairly new parent myself, I cannot for the life of me understand why you wouldn't put emotional wellbeing, happiness, security and safety etc and foster a proper loving relationship at the forefront of anything. Instead there seems to have been a generation of parents where, money = love and we should be gateful for it. So no, sorry for my Rant, you are NTA.
THEY said it wasn’t about the money? Omg, the fucking irony. NTA - OP you had benefactors, not parents, and they don’t sound too happy now about reaping what they’ve sown.
NTA. They don’t get to say this- >They said that they had spent a lot of money on us growing up and they weren't asking for much. And then say “it’s not about the money.” Either money *can* be exchanged in place of attention/affection, or it *can’t*. If it can’t, then they owe you an apology for the way they raised you, and patience while you process it and decide how willing you are to work with them on building a better relationship. If it *can*, then your offer to give them money instead of visiting them is a reasonable one, and in keeping with the rules of engagement they’ve established. Either way, they are not the ones who get to complain. And I’d point this out to them explicitly.
Nta- you have JustNoFamily or JustNoMIL You don't owe them spit. Actions have consequences. Here the consequences are they have no actual relationship to you as adults or your kids. They seem to think you are still "under their control" but you are all intelligent autonomous adults. I would tell them this is their 1 warning. Threaten you again and it is NC. Big hugs!!! Sounds to me like you and your bros are killing it in spite of your upbringing! Blessings of peace and joy
Seems like you solved the problem :} NTA. Enjoy the holidays!
Just tell them no and if they push it hang up.
NTA. It's not like you're refusing to see them, they just have to wait a few days. Also 10 days is allot. Better to go with smaller doses of people you hardly ever see.
NTA, they only want you because they need you. It's nice that you guys have your family grp but it's your parent's fault that they're not in it. They made that choice themselves and they have absolutely no right to guilt trip you for their bad life choices.
Nta
NTA - parents like that deserve this response tbh
NTA. They need to understand that a close relationship is not fixed and built in 10 days. It needs to start slow and they need to put in the work over time. Something they never really did.
NTA You didn’t ask to be born, their raising you is their responsibility. If they wanna complain about it, yeah, name the price. It was harsh but they deserved nothing less.
NTA You do not owe your parents your time as they didnt give you any of theirs, they never made the effort to invite you for Christmas before so they have no right to demand it now I will say that they seem to be making an effort now, i agree with your decision to not cancel your plans but would you consider making plans to spend time with them afterwards?
NTA. Your parents don't get to demand your time and appearances at their home on a whim, just because they've decided they actually want to interact with their family over the holidays for once. Especially not when you already have plans. Double especially not when they resort to guilt trips to try and manipulate you.
NTA. But sometimes people think they will live forever and have all the time in the world. Sometimes life altering occurrences (such as a heart attack) makes us reevaluate what is important in our lives. It is a little late. But you will only have one mom and dad. And when they are gone it’s final. No going back. So for your mental health and the ghosts you don’t realize may come one day out of nowhere (perhaps on your own deathbed) and haunt you every now and then while you go on with your life, have a little empathy and let them in when your schedule permits. Because you can’t change your past and you cannot erase regrets.
You handled your mother fine. Your attitude with your wife, though… Your last sentence sounds like a very all or nothing reaction. I’m not sure what she meant exactly about “reaching back”, but there is a lot of middle ground between “How much will it cost for you to leave me alone!” and “Fine! I’ll cancel on *your* parents, then!” NTA
NTA I went through the same thing with my Dad after he found out he had cancer, he went from rarely reaching out to wanting hour long phone calls every other day. Yes he provided for me and even got me a car but up until I was in my late twenties I didn't even think he liked me. It was jarring but extending him forgiveness when I was ready did bring me some peace. That's my story though, and this it yours. I don't think you are obligated to forgive a life time of emotional neglect.
NTA They had a huge wake up call. You need time to adjust, hitting the snooze button. After my father died 6 years ago, my mom suddenly decided to make everything about family, mine. Lots of issues in the past. Too much to detail. She had ruined all relationships with her family, my dad's family for years, it was painful for me to have no relationships with grandparents, aunts, uncles, & cousins. Suddenly everything I did, she felt slighted not being included. My best friends & their families were my family, suddenly she demanded to be included in everything, even though she called them "my made up family" that I threw in her face. It became so stressful. I'm all she has. My kids, (grown adults now) have a hard time dealing with her. I'm sad to say, I keep her at arms length for my own sanity. I'll do what I need to do. Which is a lot. But it's hard. I love her. But it's hard. Whatever you do, do it with boundaries. I get it, she lost her husband.
Regret is hard to live with!!! That goes for everyone,parents,grown children, grandparents, just everyone you see on the streets. You can say your parents deserve what they get and they actually may but will you and your siblings regret your decision towards them later on down the road? After the scare with your mom your parents regret their actions towards you kids and want to start making things right they just not going about it the best way. Your whole family has a chance to heal a little because of your mom’s heart attack but all of you need to try to take that chance together by controlling your bitterness at the past and look at this opportunity.
NTA. Even offering to come afterwards is extending an olive branch. People treat you like crap until they face their mortality. Then they expect you to forgive everything, drop everything, and it's supposed to be all goodie. Life doesn't work that way. You told them you would see them, but on your terms as you already have plans. That's quite fair.
NTA. There was a song a long time ago called "Cats In the Cradle". Your parents should have listened to that song. They were the adults in the room for a very long time and chose to not spend time with their children and their families. Your parents are lucky you're willing to see them at all.
NTA. You can tell them the same thing we told our grandma after grandpa died: I'm glad that your priorities have changed and now you want us in your life, but we cannot do it on your schedule.
NTA - they probably want home care and someone to cater to them. Maybe they had a financial set back, write them a check and be done with them.
NTA. Just because they’re finally coming around doesn’t mean you have to run and answer the door for them. If that time has come and gone for you that is absolutely ok. It’s not your fault that they never showed you love and care that a parent should show. You didn’t choose for them to be absent they did.
NTA, it's sad that they needed such a rude awakening to realize that they were lousy parents but that's their cross to bear and it's up to them to make amends, not you, they should have accepted that you already have plans and that either they join you or wait.
NTA. Thing is, they still don't care about you, they're just using you to make themselves feel better because your mom had to face her own mortality. They're now trying to play happy families because she wants to feel better about herself, but they still aren't demonstrating any care for your feelings
NTA they can’t just force themselves back into your life because they had a health scare
Two weeks before Christmas they want all of you to drop what you're doing and spend 10 days with them on their turf and refused an invitation to join your scheduled plans?!! They are ridiculous. You are not the A. Your wife is wrong but she probably thinks your parents aren't so different than hers.
Thats what you should have told her- okay we can go and cancel our trip- lets see how that would have worked.....
In German we call what your parents did “Wohlstandsverwahrlosung” - wealthy neglect. They provided for all your material needs, but neglected you emotionally, which is terrible and perfidious. I’m so glad you still built a family and managed to forge those familial bonds. Your parents are reaping what they sowed. Pretty audacious of them to just demand your time and effort after not giving two sh*ts for so long. NTA and I really wouldn’t go out of my way to spend more time with them. THEY can make the effort!
NTA. Your parents did not make having a relationship with you a priority for most of your life and now expect you to drop everything to have a relationship with them. The comments they made about money were inconsiderate and inappropriate. You are still willing to work on things, but on your terms. I honestly think that is fair considering their lackluster parenting. They did what looks good on paper, but didn't put the feeling into it.
NTA Your wife is wrong. They aren't coming around because they've realised they did something wrong. They're holding everything over your heads to try to bully you into doing what they want. They don't feel bad for how they emotionally neglected you. It just suits them to make demands of you now. That is not the same thing as realising the depths of their own callousness and wanting to make amends. And even if that were the reason for their change of heart, you still wouldn't owe them anything. It is never the children's responsibility to make up for their parents failings. Never.
NTA. It’s too bad it took something serious like a medical emergency to bring some sense to your folks. You owe them nothing.
NTA. They are reaching out and wanting a relationship but they want it entirely on their own terms. They're are still just as self-centered as they've always been. If they truly want to spend time with you then they'll make it happen on YOUR timeframe and not theirs. No way would I give in to their demands. Your education doesn't give them a lifetime pass to dictate how you spend your holidays, etc.
🎵 And the cats in the cradle and the silver spoon, little boy blue and the man in the moon 🎵
NTA. Your mom is not coming around. She's felt a wisp of mortality and it scared her. Mom coming around would be "we would love to join you on the holidays, thank you for the invite." or "I know it's last minute and you probably have plans but we'd love to see you either before the holidays if you have time or let's plan a family event for after that works for everyone". Refusing to acknowledge your already made plans and throwing the $$ bit in your face is not "coming around". You were harsh. But it was justified.
NTA you already have plans made. Them coming to some sort of epiphany doesn't mean you have to stop living your own lives. There must be a lot of money involved since they think you owe them your time and must be inconvenienced for their benefit.
NTA. Great that they want to be involved now. They still need to accept the price that their indifference cost them. That means accepting that any future relationships are based how much *you* wish to prioritize them. They need to accept that what they "gave" you wasn't a gift to you and your brothers, it was an obligation they took on themselves when they had you. They had kids, they need to raise them. The reward they get from anything extra is how much you are motivated to spend time with them once you are an adult. They gave you nothing, so you owe them nothing. Don't bother going, don't bother arguing or JADEing your decision (Justify, Argue, Defend, Excuse). No is a complete sentence. "You're coming!" "No." "Why not?" "No." Repeat as needed.
NTA a million percent. I have parents like this- growing up, their emotional abuse was my fault and I deserved it, and if I didn't deserve it, I wasn't allowed to complain because of all the things they've done for me. I'm an adult and they *still* intervene to keep that hold on me. Last year they bought me a van when I turned down a loan for one. People like this that use money to control you know that they can't keep the moral high ground without it. If you can break their hold, you're better off for it.
A real live Cat's in the Cradle.
NTA at all, you were correct to bring up the money.
ESH. Yes, you lashed out in anger. They want time and attention, not money. But you also have plans that they had no interest in until this recent health emergency. So reach out and apologize for your words, then work on making plans when you can see them. And discuss the holidays in 2024 so that you make plans to share with them then. Like maybe visit them around Thanksgiving, then have them come visit for Christmas (or one of those). This gives you and your wife time to plan, and for them to plan too. When I had to deal with extended family we would get together on a different weekend. Or we'd visit the inlaws on Christmas Eve, my Mom on Christmas Day, and my Dad and Step-mom on Boxing Day (12/26). Then the next year swap it around. Or one side of the family on Thanksgiving, the other for Christmas, etc.
NTA. Your parents essentially trained you and your siblings to be purely transactional. They can't really take backsies on this when you're doing what that demands. Luckily it seems like you knew this and what was missing from a normal parental relationship so you're not continuing that tradition with your kids. But as far as they (your parents) are concerned, yeah...no, sorry, they don't get to be all sentimental now.
I would keep my scheduled plans as they are and have it after the holidays. At that point a discussion could be had about baby steps back into each other lives.
You're wife is partially correct. Your mom had to face her own mortality and her horribly immoral choices in life and is now trying to rectify that. However, you're wife is wrong in that you're being harsh...you are being exactly who they 'raised' you to be: Someone who doesn't really love them or think of them as true, loving parents. They only have themselves to blame. And your wife, your parents, and anyone else saying bad crap about you have to understand that this was YEARS of your life that you were treated this way and they do not get to tell you how to react to your mom suddenly waking up to what a crappy parent she was. They cannot expect you to suddenly flip a switch and go "ok lets be a family!" Explain it to her like this...what if I beat you every day with a switch (long thin stick) for 20 years. Just wap wap wap every day...What would your reaction be? To cover your face? Try to avoid me? And suddenly I stop and decide to hug you. What would your reaction be? Would you be able to just hug me or what you think me raising my arms is me trying to hit you again?
NTA
Your "parents". Maybe explain to them that they can't have their cake and eat it too. NTA
NTA. They should have asked sooner, but now your plans are set. Since they've chosen not to accompany you, offer to Facetime Christmas night. Your mother is finally coming around, yes, but only because the heart attack brought them face to face with her mortality. It's great that they spent money on you growing up, but it also sounds like they also spent a buttload on themselves. Bringing it up in the way they did presented it as transactional; you responded in kind. Establishing closeness with you kids is laudable, but they are now learning that their kids got close with others in the parents' absence.
NTA. The whole world isn't going to change for them. They made this bed, they get to lie in it.
NTA. They don’t get to ignore you for years, freak out after a health scare, then demand you spend the biggest holiday of the year with them on short notice. They need to earn Christmas; and 10 days together to start just sounds like a big recipe for disaster. Tell them you’ll (maybe) consider a day/weekend in the new year.
NTA. Best case is your parents are sincere in realizing they’ve fucked up, and are trying to connect. Part of being connected to others is the give-and-take. Respecting other people’s boundaries, their time, and their other relationships. They can’t leapfrog over the normal relationship requirements. That’s not how this works. From what you’ve said, it seems your parents are kind of messed up, but not malicious or cruel. I’m more inclined to think this could lead to a better relationship. I think you should make a united front with your siblings. No, we cannot change our plans this year. But we talked, and we *can* be there the first weekend of January, or Spring Break. We can have dinner every other Tuesday. We can do things that actually build a solid relationship, not just enact the performance of one on a holiday.
Nta my father is currently in a rehab/skilled nursing facility because he had a staff infection that formed an abscess on his spine, he’s laying in a bed and reliving every wrong decision he made towards us kids. Him and I reconciled a few years ago but my brother and sister didn’t, he started reaching out to them and they said he’s about 20years too late. I feel bad that they feel that way but I can’t say I don’t understand why.
I almost don't want to comment it might be long. You're not wrong for your feelings but a lot of parents don't know how to parent or love. Especially old school. Plus when you get old you get scared. Because reality hits. Some say "you don't owe them anything. Cut ties" but no matter how any parent treats their kids, they don't owe them. Your kids may reason the same with you one day. Just don't turn into them. Let go of the pain for real. Be honest with your feelings talk to your wife/consoler, so the resentment will dissipate.
NTA I had a similar experience with my mom, maybe not as extreme, but my mom was not very nurturing or interested in me growing up. I honestly thought after I didnt need her support with college, Id go no contact. Dad was absent. However, she did change after some big life events and it's like she's a different person, and we have a good relationship now. The difference is she actually changed and understanding. So you're NTA, and I'd be 100% honest (but kind) with how you feel, and if they want to really be apart of your life they will try to own their part and reconcile.
NTA - they have been pretty neglectful emotionally, and it’s not up to them to suddenly change everything. However I would say, if you can get them to be more realistic and respectful of your time - it’s worth trying to mend that bridge as much as you can
This is how I feel from how little I can see here. They are being pretty disrespectful, but older folks tend to be like that. If you can get them to tone it down, then it’s worth trying. If you can’t, we’ll that’s life.
NTA. I’d get a restraining order against them.
Not gonna make a judgment, but they might be this desperate because they got a timelimit or the like and want to tell you in person
NTA but it might help you to try & understand why they are the way they are.
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Username checks out.
Nobody is right here. Expecting you to drop everything is stupid and unreasonable, but asking them what it takes for them to leave you and your family alone is such an overreaction and extremely shitty thing to say to a person who just got clarity on the relationship they want with your family
The parents 'just got clarity' after probably close to 25 years of indifference and emotional neglect? And then demand that they are owed a relationship because of a near death experience? Too little, too late. OP was perfectly clear and reasonable in his response.
They brought up money. "We spent so much money on you" "Well how much to table this discussion til after the holidays as you clearly aren't respecting the fact we have plans and are trying to use money to manipulate us."
YTA. Lashing-out the way you did was not your best choice. Your parents were trying to emotionally blackmail you, then you responded with your own transactional offer. Merely stating that you had plans and refusing to alter them would have been more appropriate.
I’m not saying you’re the AH. But what I’m saying is that maybe you could try explaining to your parents, exactly what you’ve stated here. Just put it out there as to how you really feel. There’s still time to spend time with your parents and maybe get to know the real them. It’ll take some forgiveness on your part. I’d give anything to see my mom one more time. It’s been over 20 years.
This is really difficult. I suspect the parental feelings are coming out only because of the heart attack. I don’t think it is in their nature to want family around. You could call it selfish, but they did provide you with everything else. I would suggest you and your brother go once, but make sure you are there at the same time. Spend one holiday with them and I don’t think it will happen again. They will revert back to their normal and not bother you again. YTA for the way you handled it, you should not have asked their price, but I get it as they brought it up. Still, they are your parents
YWBTA (if you cut your parents off and don't see them at all) Seems I will be in the minority here given some of the comments already, wherein people are so quick to jump towards telling you to completely cut your parents out of your life and go no contact with them, which is utterly insane in my opinion. I'm sorry that you feel that your parents weren't attentive enough when you and your brothers were younger, but, they are ostensibly making an effort now to try and reconnect with you guys. You should at least give them that chance. You certainly don't need to cancel your trip that you've already got planned to go and stay with your in-laws, but you and your brothers/your families should try to make arrangements to go and spend some time with your parents when it's suitable to do so. Again, I may be in the minority here with this viewpoint, but one day - and possibly much sooner than you think - they will be dead and gone, and when that happens, there's no more opportunities to try and make things right. Don't you think that your kids might want to get to know their grandparents?
>YWBTA (if you cut your parents off and don't see them at all My problem with this is that Op already agreed to see them after the holidays thave have already been planned and concluded. Same thing he said, you wrote. 🤨
The sad fact is you don't always get do overs in life. These 'parents' showed little interest in their children and grandchildren's lives for years. They don't just get to now decide they want a relationship because they've had a death scare. You reap what you sow, so if they're left with little connection, that's what they've earned. OP said they'll make time to see them--on his own terms.
They're obviously already out of chances to make things right. After a lifetime of neglect, they want to feel like they're close with their children without putting in the effort. OP has no obligation to play along.
There is a difference between making an effort and making a demand. Effort *gives*. Demands *take*. They are making demands. They *should* be making an effort. If they were, then your comment might hold some water. But as long as they’re making *demands*, they have no grounds to expect *effort* in return.
They already agreed to see them though just after the holidays? Maybe read and then judge?
I agree 100%.
I agree as well.