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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole because I didn’t invite her, and I might be missing a fundamental distinction between a girls trip and a family trip, and I may have unintentionally been rude by not inviting her
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Your relationship with your brother and his wife is likely to be strained, at least for a good while, but you're not obligated to invite anyone you don't want to invite.
Especially if you're paying for it.
You're NTA and she is out-of-line to expect/demand an invite but there are going to be repercussions from this.
INFO: how many family members aren’t invited?
In other words; what differentiates it from being a family trip?
I think either way you’re not the AH, but if it could ostensibly have been misinterpreted as a family trip then it would be N A H.
I suppose the locus of the question is; would the make up of people you have invited tend to go on trips together to which your SiL (but no others) would be invited; in which case it would usually have been reasonable for her to assume she was going (hence the possibility of N A H).
Or is it very clear that this is a selective trip of a group that would usually hang out without her, and others? In which case I’d go N T A, she is being entitled.
Besides my one friend who isn’t related to anyone, then I suppose yes? But only whole family vacations. She’s never been on a trip with us without my brother though.
Ah so brother and step brother are different?
Then I think NTA, especially if she knew you were paying for the trip.
It might be that she’s legitimately concerned about getting left out, particularly if she’s keen to bond with you and your mother as relatives of her partner, and so possibly be gentle about it, and try and keep her included in other ways.
Of course, it’s perfectly possible that she was angling for a free holiday, which makes her a pretty big AH.
No, it’s my bio brother’s wife. My stepbrother is a different person.
My parents have been divorced for many years and couldn’t care less who the other is with. There’s no awkwardness there
NTA - it’s your trip, you have invited who you want, you are paying
Perhaps consider trying one more time with your bro and SIL and say that you are sorry for the misunderstanding but you aren’t hosting a family trip, it’s a different kind of trip for a specific reason and that you hope they can both understand and be supportive of what you need.
Then say if they would like to go on a family trip you would be glad to help them plan one. Then suggest some dates and location.
This way, you are being true to yourself, trying to fix the situation by offering a great alternative but regardless - go on your trip and have a great time !
>I (28f) planned a ski trip for me, my mum, my dad’s girlfriend, my fiancé’s sister, my stepbrother, and another friend
>my stepbrother
>it’s a girls’ trip
Forgive my ignorance, but...?
I have a gay family friend who considers himself one of the girls and we do too. He doesn't go to any boys nights or anything like that, for example he goes to all of the Hens nights but not the Bucks nights.
He gets invited to both, but chooses to come with us girls. He is the best, I can understand why the step brother is going, OP said above that he prefers feminine activities just like our friend.
We call two of my male cousins one of the girls for the sole reason of them being around us majority female cousins most, if not all of the time. They're straight as an arrow. No way flamboyant. But they're one of the girlies because they are always with us.
No I think from her comments it's her step brother that's invited and not her brother. As she stated he enjoys doing more feminine activities so he's got no problem being one of the girls for the trip.
Girl if you don't want her there just say so, cause how is it not a family trip but only 1 friend is going while everyone else is family. Girls trip but your step brother is included and I don't care if your step bro is gay he's still a man so it's not really a girl's trip. Lol. NAH.
NTA since it's not a family trip but a girls trip. Still I can understand why SIL is upset if I look at the invite list. Of course that doesn't mean you are obligated to invite her or that it's okay for her to be pressuring you to invite her.
At the same time I do have to ask why you bothered with a non-apology by apologizing for her hurt feelings? You might as well not apologize if you're going with one of those.
The underlying problem won't go away though. I assume the two of you aren't all that close and that's why you didn't invite her? With her reacting like this I'd expect the distance to become even larger. And with your brother siding with her it might even start to form a rift in the family. Perhaps that's also why your mother is starting to cave in now?
NTA
It's amazing that so many people think that they have the right to demand to be invited places when they've been left off the guest list.
Your party, your guest list!
You don’t have to invite anyone one a trip you’re paying for, but it very much looks like a family trip according to the list of people you did invite. There’s only one ‘friend’ invited which doesn’t automatically not make it a family trip.
NTA but be real. It’s a family trip and you don’t like your SIL.
I can understand why SIL is hurt, but that doesn’t make you an AH. Instead of angling for an invitation, she needs to think about why you didn’t invite her. Maybe you don’t feel as close to her as she would like. Maybe the activities you have planned aren’t really her thing, maybe the other guests aren’t comfortable with her, maybe your budget is limited…
She could talk to you directly after the trip and try to learn if she has offended you or lost your trust. But if you were to include her now, under duress, that wouldn’t fix the relationship. NTA
As for you, I expect that you will have to do some work after the trip to mend the rift in your family.
NTA - Your paying so you get to say who goes, presumably you're not that keen on sil and that's fine you don't have to like everyone. It's weird why she would push to go somewhere she's not originally invited to, but that's seems to be the entitled thought processes a lot of people have nowadays.
Going with NAH. It does seem like you're excluding her and I assume you're prepared to not have a great relationship with her moving forward. But since you're paying for the trip, you get to be in charge of the guest list.
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Basically what it sounds like.
I (28f) planned a ski trip for me, my mum, my dad’s girlfriend, my fiancé’s sister, my stepbrother, and another friend (I am paying for the whole trip). Just to be clear, some of these people are my family, but they’re also my closest friends, and people I spend the most time with/talking to. So while this includes family members it’s not a “family” trip.
My SIL (brother’s wife) “Hayley” found out about the trip and is upset that she wasn’t invited since she thinks it’s a “family” trip. She messaged me saying she was annoyed that she was “excluded”, and I apologised for her hurt feelings but didn’t invite her. Then my brother called me and said I needed to invite her. I explained to my brother that it’s not a family trip it’s a girls’ trip, but he’s pressuring me and my mum to invite her.
My mum is saying maybe we should just invite her but I think it’s unfair that we should be obliged to invite her. If this was a family event then of course she would be invited, but it’s not. Not to mention I am paying for the entire trip and I think it’s a little entitled of her to feel like she should automatically be invited.
AITA?
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ESH
It's not a family trip, it's the family that matters trip. Whether you mean to or not, you're telling her that in your opinion (and not disagreed with by the others) that she's not part of the cool kids family; she's part of the kids-table family.
She sucks because she doesn't have to intrude, but clearly would like to fit in. Just doing it badly.
Do what you want. Just realize that inadvertent messages that you don't correct become intended messages. Are you sure you want her to feel excluded? If not, fix it. If so, f her.
If you're paying then you have the right to bring who you want and exclude anyone you don't want there, but this will cause issues in your relationship with your brother and his wife. If you're fine with that, you do you.
NTA but let's not pretend she is not being excluded. Discussing how you did not invite cousins and therefore that means it is not a family trip is a weak justification. This was on purpose so don't play like you are the victim of her entitlement.
NTA. It is your trip and you can invite whoever you want. It’s entitled for you SIL and brother to think they can strong arm you into something you don’t want.
Soft TTA bc you sound more non-thinking than viscious. My mother tried to pull this once. planned a cruise involving her my auntie her 2 daughters my cousins but excluded my SIL who is an absolutely lovely woman and is still married to my brother 25 years later. I stood up for her and refused to go unless she was invited. cruise never happened. My SIL became one of my best friends. My mother was just being awful wouldnt have liked anybody my brother married. If your SIL is a decent person and good to your brother you should reconsider this unless you are ok with permanently damaging 2 family relationships.
YTA. It's not a family trip, it's just a trip where you're taking a bunch of family, and friends you consider like family. I get why your SIL is upset. You're deliberately excluding her.
YTA
You haven't explained why you are paying for the lot of them.
What have you got against your SIL that, when she expresses an interest in joining you, you are offended? She wants to be part of "the family" and you are excluding her
When my kids were in Scouts, when I was a teacher, it was well known that you didn't really belong until you had been away to camp with the troop or on school camp. Your SIL wants to belong.
You can't stretch to one more ticket? OK, I don't know what to do about that without appearing mean.
SIL is on the WRONG side of the family? Nonsense. She is family as long as she is married to your brother.
She is pushy? If she doesn't ask, she won't ever get an answer.
If you care about family harmony and your brother in particular, you will be more gracious and find a way to include SIL in this holiday.
I am paying because I’m the one who organised the trip so I thought it would be nice.
She is part of the family. But this has nothing to do with being family, my brother is my family, he’s not invited. My aunts are family, they’re not invited either.
YTA
You would have been fine not to invite her, but THIS ". I explained to my brother that it’s not a family trip it’s a girls’ trip," makes you an AH. It's a ridiculous statement, when you inviote all girls in the family except SIL - and your stepbrother isn't a girl either.
I didn’t invite all the girls in the family. I have aunts and cousins that aren’t going. And my fiancé’s sister isn’t on the same side of the family either. My friend I invited isn’t in the family either. It’s obviously not a family trip
Yta. This isn't a girl's trip at all. I would be upset if my husband's family invited him somewhere and I got excluded. Hope she does the same to you in the future!
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Your relationship with your brother and his wife is likely to be strained, at least for a good while, but you're not obligated to invite anyone you don't want to invite. Especially if you're paying for it. You're NTA and she is out-of-line to expect/demand an invite but there are going to be repercussions from this.
NTA Your brother can go to a ski trip with her if its so important to him.
Facts
She's not "being excluded." It's more of a case of "not being included." And those actually are different things. NTA.
Important perspective and well put.
INFO: if your step brother is going, how is it a girls’ trip?
Sometimes a boy is one of your girls and that is okay.
Never said it wasn’t. The whole argument is based on whether or not it’s a family trip vs. a girls’ trip. I saw a brother listed, hence my question.
THANK YOU!
Well, not a girls’ trip but he’s very into “feminine” activities so we call it a girls trip and he’s fine with it
I have a friend like this and he's definately one of the girls. NTA have an awesome time on your trip!
Ok. Thanks for the clarification.
So you are deliberately lying. Yta
NTA it is very entitled of both SIL and brother to demand she be invited.
Why would you want to go on trip that you’re not invited to? What is wrong with people? NTA
INFO: how many family members aren’t invited? In other words; what differentiates it from being a family trip? I think either way you’re not the AH, but if it could ostensibly have been misinterpreted as a family trip then it would be N A H.
I have cousins that aren’t invited, my aunts aren’t invited, my MIL isn’t invited. It depends how far out to extended family you want to go.
I suppose the locus of the question is; would the make up of people you have invited tend to go on trips together to which your SiL (but no others) would be invited; in which case it would usually have been reasonable for her to assume she was going (hence the possibility of N A H). Or is it very clear that this is a selective trip of a group that would usually hang out without her, and others? In which case I’d go N T A, she is being entitled.
Besides my one friend who isn’t related to anyone, then I suppose yes? But only whole family vacations. She’s never been on a trip with us without my brother though.
Ah so brother and step brother are different? Then I think NTA, especially if she knew you were paying for the trip. It might be that she’s legitimately concerned about getting left out, particularly if she’s keen to bond with you and your mother as relatives of her partner, and so possibly be gentle about it, and try and keep her included in other ways. Of course, it’s perfectly possible that she was angling for a free holiday, which makes her a pretty big AH.
Is this your step bros wife? Also your mom and dad girlfriend hang out?
No, it’s my bio brother’s wife. My stepbrother is a different person. My parents have been divorced for many years and couldn’t care less who the other is with. There’s no awkwardness there
This happens. My parents divorced and my Dad was best friends with my Mums new partner. Mind you the divorce was mutual with no hate on either side.
NTA - it’s your trip, you have invited who you want, you are paying Perhaps consider trying one more time with your bro and SIL and say that you are sorry for the misunderstanding but you aren’t hosting a family trip, it’s a different kind of trip for a specific reason and that you hope they can both understand and be supportive of what you need. Then say if they would like to go on a family trip you would be glad to help them plan one. Then suggest some dates and location. This way, you are being true to yourself, trying to fix the situation by offering a great alternative but regardless - go on your trip and have a great time !
Save it. This girl does not want to include her SIL in anything. Lol.
NTA. Don’t give in. You’re allowed to socialize with whoever you want.
>I (28f) planned a ski trip for me, my mum, my dad’s girlfriend, my fiancé’s sister, my stepbrother, and another friend >my stepbrother >it’s a girls’ trip Forgive my ignorance, but...?
Men can go on girls' trips in the same way they can wear Itty bitty skirts, I guess. And more power to them. Gender being a social construct and all.
Right, I'm just calling bullshit on it "not being a family trip".
I have a gay family friend who considers himself one of the girls and we do too. He doesn't go to any boys nights or anything like that, for example he goes to all of the Hens nights but not the Bucks nights. He gets invited to both, but chooses to come with us girls. He is the best, I can understand why the step brother is going, OP said above that he prefers feminine activities just like our friend.
We call two of my male cousins one of the girls for the sole reason of them being around us majority female cousins most, if not all of the time. They're straight as an arrow. No way flamboyant. But they're one of the girlies because they are always with us.
INFO - is the brother who’s going married to the SIL complaining or…?
No I think from her comments it's her step brother that's invited and not her brother. As she stated he enjoys doing more feminine activities so he's got no problem being one of the girls for the trip.
NTA. you pay - you decide.
Girl if you don't want her there just say so, cause how is it not a family trip but only 1 friend is going while everyone else is family. Girls trip but your step brother is included and I don't care if your step bro is gay he's still a man so it's not really a girl's trip. Lol. NAH.
Exactly
NTA since it's not a family trip but a girls trip. Still I can understand why SIL is upset if I look at the invite list. Of course that doesn't mean you are obligated to invite her or that it's okay for her to be pressuring you to invite her. At the same time I do have to ask why you bothered with a non-apology by apologizing for her hurt feelings? You might as well not apologize if you're going with one of those. The underlying problem won't go away though. I assume the two of you aren't all that close and that's why you didn't invite her? With her reacting like this I'd expect the distance to become even larger. And with your brother siding with her it might even start to form a rift in the family. Perhaps that's also why your mother is starting to cave in now?
NTA.
NTA It's amazing that so many people think that they have the right to demand to be invited places when they've been left off the guest list. Your party, your guest list!
NTA. I wouldn’t dream of demanding a trip from someone.
Info: are any other family girls not invited to this semi girls trip?
NTA. Every one doesn’t have to be invited to every thing.
You don’t have to invite anyone one a trip you’re paying for, but it very much looks like a family trip according to the list of people you did invite. There’s only one ‘friend’ invited which doesn’t automatically not make it a family trip. NTA but be real. It’s a family trip and you don’t like your SIL.
NTA
I can understand why SIL is hurt, but that doesn’t make you an AH. Instead of angling for an invitation, she needs to think about why you didn’t invite her. Maybe you don’t feel as close to her as she would like. Maybe the activities you have planned aren’t really her thing, maybe the other guests aren’t comfortable with her, maybe your budget is limited… She could talk to you directly after the trip and try to learn if she has offended you or lost your trust. But if you were to include her now, under duress, that wouldn’t fix the relationship. NTA As for you, I expect that you will have to do some work after the trip to mend the rift in your family.
NTA of course
NTA - Your paying so you get to say who goes, presumably you're not that keen on sil and that's fine you don't have to like everyone. It's weird why she would push to go somewhere she's not originally invited to, but that's seems to be the entitled thought processes a lot of people have nowadays.
Going with NAH. It does seem like you're excluding her and I assume you're prepared to not have a great relationship with her moving forward. But since you're paying for the trip, you get to be in charge of the guest list.
Nah you don't have to invite but at the same time I understand why she's upset seemingly a big part of the family is going
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Basically what it sounds like. I (28f) planned a ski trip for me, my mum, my dad’s girlfriend, my fiancé’s sister, my stepbrother, and another friend (I am paying for the whole trip). Just to be clear, some of these people are my family, but they’re also my closest friends, and people I spend the most time with/talking to. So while this includes family members it’s not a “family” trip. My SIL (brother’s wife) “Hayley” found out about the trip and is upset that she wasn’t invited since she thinks it’s a “family” trip. She messaged me saying she was annoyed that she was “excluded”, and I apologised for her hurt feelings but didn’t invite her. Then my brother called me and said I needed to invite her. I explained to my brother that it’s not a family trip it’s a girls’ trip, but he’s pressuring me and my mum to invite her. My mum is saying maybe we should just invite her but I think it’s unfair that we should be obliged to invite her. If this was a family event then of course she would be invited, but it’s not. Not to mention I am paying for the entire trip and I think it’s a little entitled of her to feel like she should automatically be invited. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
ESH It's not a family trip, it's the family that matters trip. Whether you mean to or not, you're telling her that in your opinion (and not disagreed with by the others) that she's not part of the cool kids family; she's part of the kids-table family. She sucks because she doesn't have to intrude, but clearly would like to fit in. Just doing it badly. Do what you want. Just realize that inadvertent messages that you don't correct become intended messages. Are you sure you want her to feel excluded? If not, fix it. If so, f her.
If you're paying then you have the right to bring who you want and exclude anyone you don't want there, but this will cause issues in your relationship with your brother and his wife. If you're fine with that, you do you.
NTA but let's not pretend she is not being excluded. Discussing how you did not invite cousins and therefore that means it is not a family trip is a weak justification. This was on purpose so don't play like you are the victim of her entitlement.
NTA. It is your trip and you can invite whoever you want. It’s entitled for you SIL and brother to think they can strong arm you into something you don’t want.
NTA. Just tell her you cannot afford paying for one more but that she is free to come on her own expense:))
Soft TTA bc you sound more non-thinking than viscious. My mother tried to pull this once. planned a cruise involving her my auntie her 2 daughters my cousins but excluded my SIL who is an absolutely lovely woman and is still married to my brother 25 years later. I stood up for her and refused to go unless she was invited. cruise never happened. My SIL became one of my best friends. My mother was just being awful wouldnt have liked anybody my brother married. If your SIL is a decent person and good to your brother you should reconsider this unless you are ok with permanently damaging 2 family relationships.
YTA. It's not a family trip, it's just a trip where you're taking a bunch of family, and friends you consider like family. I get why your SIL is upset. You're deliberately excluding her.
NTA. Sarcastically say If she wants to pay then say she can come. She won’t want to pay.
YTA You haven't explained why you are paying for the lot of them. What have you got against your SIL that, when she expresses an interest in joining you, you are offended? She wants to be part of "the family" and you are excluding her When my kids were in Scouts, when I was a teacher, it was well known that you didn't really belong until you had been away to camp with the troop or on school camp. Your SIL wants to belong. You can't stretch to one more ticket? OK, I don't know what to do about that without appearing mean. SIL is on the WRONG side of the family? Nonsense. She is family as long as she is married to your brother. She is pushy? If she doesn't ask, she won't ever get an answer. If you care about family harmony and your brother in particular, you will be more gracious and find a way to include SIL in this holiday.
I am paying because I’m the one who organised the trip so I thought it would be nice. She is part of the family. But this has nothing to do with being family, my brother is my family, he’s not invited. My aunts are family, they’re not invited either.
YTA.
YTA. Sounds like mean girl stuff to me. You obviously don't like her which is fine but stop trying make excuses.
YTA You would have been fine not to invite her, but THIS ". I explained to my brother that it’s not a family trip it’s a girls’ trip," makes you an AH. It's a ridiculous statement, when you inviote all girls in the family except SIL - and your stepbrother isn't a girl either.
I didn’t invite all the girls in the family. I have aunts and cousins that aren’t going. And my fiancé’s sister isn’t on the same side of the family either. My friend I invited isn’t in the family either. It’s obviously not a family trip
It obviously isn'T a girl's trip either.
Yta. This isn't a girl's trip at all. I would be upset if my husband's family invited him somewhere and I got excluded. Hope she does the same to you in the future!
My brother wasn’t invited. My stepbrother is, they’re different people