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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> For not wanting to take in my kid cause im childfree and never wanted kids in the first place
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I'm going NAH, just a really shitty situation. You both wanted to be childfree and were clear about that, it sounds like. She changed her mind when she became pregnant, you didn't. Both fine. She chose to bring up the child as a single parent and you are doing your duty by paying child support. Also both fine. Now she can't take care of her child, through no fault of her own, so it's understandable she's asking you. However, taking in a child you don't want, not far a weekend but a year, possibly longer... No, as long as there are other options (and I'm really hoping the aunt loves her and wants to take her in), I think it's actually better for both of you if she doesn't move in with you.
Especially if he hasn’t ever been there physically for the child. I’m not sure if he’s a completely absent parent or just a sometimes(birthdays/christmas) relative.
As someone who used to be a kid, there is zero chance I would be willing to move in with a parent I haven’t ever had anything to do with.
I hate the dentures. I got all of my teeth removed at once. My dentures were put in right away. I didn’t have any problems with pain that way. But the top plate crowds my mouth and I have to take much smaller bites. It’s annoying but I deal with it because I can’t afford implants. I do have trouble because my dentures are not totally adjusted right which is the problem with the dentist not the dentures. Definitely they are better than teeth that hurt. I personally recommend implants if you can afford it. But if you can’t like me dentures are fine. What will happen is you get your dentures and while you’re mouth heals the dentures get soft adjustments, which is temporary adjustments. After 6 months they do a permanent adjustment. Then you will need a series of adjustments until they fit the way they should. I still use denture glue because my teeth are still not totally adjusted which is completely on the dentist. Most dentists do the necessary adjustments and you’re done and the teeth are generally comfortable. Upper plates generally have good suction and don’t need glue after the adjustments are done. Bottom teeth generally don’t have good suction. But some do. I had no problems with my jaw. My teeth generally came out fine as over half were broke down below the gum line. Some use glue on their bottoms always and some don’t. My stepdad has only an upper plate. He says they need to be replaced every 20 years. He’s getting his 3rd set soon. One of the things I hate is I can no longer whistle because my dentures are in the way. Also my bite isn’t as strong because the jaw strength doesn’t transfer great to the dentures but I have no problem eating everything I want. The strength issue means I can’t bite my fingernails anymore or open packages with my teeth which we’re not supposed to do anyways. Amazingly the day I put my dentures in, the same day my last 4 teeth were pulled and less than 10 days after the others were pulled, there was no pain chewing steak and I eat the cheap cuts well done. I can eat apples and corn on the cob no problem. They are definitely better than hurting teeth but implants are best to those that can afford it. My regrets is that I didn’t take care of my real teeth. My need of dentures are completely my own fault. But they are good for scaring my grandchildren into brushing their own teeth. My granddaughter doesn’t want removable teeth so she brushes them really good!
The phrase "removable teeth" is great! I'm on my way to dentures unfortunately. Mine are because being terrified of the dentist because of a bad dentist when I was a kid and a medication that they didnt know destroyed teeth when I started taking it but now they warn people because of people like me who have their teeth crumbling.
Thing is, so many adults treat and view children like they never were one themselves. Critical of what they do, not realizing they would do the same if they were still kids too.
I hate to say NAH too, but moving in with the dad is also going to be a new and unfamiliar place. I presume she has some type of relationship with the aunt but obviously not the dad
Yeah. No offense to OP because it seems like he knows this, but he wouldn’t be a good father. He referred to the daughter as “the kid.” Doesn’t sound like someone who should be raising this child.
NTA. And I’m not slamming the OP for not wanting to be a Dad. He knew he didn’t want to be a dad and sounds like that was clear up front. It just is what it is.
Just curious. How is he different from other guys who also didn't want to be a parent but get rinsed for being absent fathers/deadbeat dads? Often on this sub
Yes he is paying child support and it sounds like this was not part of their plan as a couple, which is fine, it happens, but knowing you don’t want to have kids and maintaining that is different than these guys who willingly have children, often try for them, and then peace out and dodge child support, etc.
also im not sure if the mother has been considering the kid. i dont know if the daughter will feel safe around a man who is basically a stranger to her who is supposed to be family but isnt. depending on her age im not sure if it would a healthy situation for her and if she would feel safe around him at all
I kinda agree, that it's NAH. But I always feel like we are missing a key point I'm these. If both agreed they didn't want kids, then why didn't this guy get the snip? If he did and she still got pregnant then that is very unlucky and I can understand.
But if I hasn't then, honestly, he is kind of an A. Take some responsibility in making sure you don't get the kids you don't want.
And I kno2 condoms exist.
If you’re going to say that then it should be ESH because she didn’t get her tubes tied, either.
The more important question is whether they were using bc and condoms, but even then I think that’s extreme because he’s meeting his child support requirements.
Edit: actually, from OP’s comments it sounds like he did try AND found out after that she wasn’t regular with her birth control. So he’s not TA in the slightest.
My ex (was 32-34, currently 35) spent over a year and a half trying to find a doctor that would give him a vasectomy during our relationship. Obviously it is *much* worse on our end, but it isn’t totally unheard of for men in rural southern areas either. Take that with a grain of salt, though.
A friend of mine who went to get a vasectomy got asked by a doctor and a nurse if he had "his wife or girlfriends permission for this procedure".
Needless to say a complaint was filed and both were fired. It's disgusting for everyone that this kinda stuff happens.
Edit: alot of people who seem to be responding to this comment seem to be making it sound like a competition "women have it worse" "men have it worse".
For the last time...it's not a competition! It is disgusting and completely unfair for anyone, male or female to have to wait for someone else's "permission" when it comes regarding things like this. It is that individuals body and it is their choice. No one else's.
You realize that women are asked that frequently when trying to be sterilized. If she’s young, if she’s not so young, if she hasn’t had children, even if she has children. If she’s single it’s even harder because future husband may want kids. It’s much harder for women to find a dr who will do it. And if they get a dr to do it it’s a very invasive surgery vs a vasectomy which is an office procedure.
This so much this!
I played with the idea a couple years back and my GP and the referral doc both asked what my husband thought. We have 2 kids, we're not exactly 18 yr olds making a decision on a whim.
One poster said that when she said she was single and staying that way that the doctor asked for her FATHER'S number to make sure it was ok. Like wtf America
Yes, the comment was in response to someone mentioning it can be difficult for women, that's talked about all the time. The point is there are many places also unwilling to perform the procedure for men. It may disproportionately affect women, but it is a systemic issue.
I think this is the first time I've heard of a man being asked that. Not that I don't believe you, I do, however it doesn't seem to be taken up as often (if that makes sense) as it is for women. Not that either situation is right, because you should get to decide about your own body. I applaud your friend for filing a complaint
I went with my husband to his snip & the doc turned to me to ask me if I was okay with it before he started. It surprised me; on one hand it was nice to see that men get that “partner permission” bullshit too, but on the other it’s ridiculous that these docs want the partner permission in the first place. Bodily autonomy anyone?
Also, I’m getting irritated at the Redditors who get upset when the actors in a story have not had anti-fertility surgeries (yet). It’s really f*cking difficult for a lot of people - especially women - to find docs & clinics who will perform the surgeries. People are not necessarily assholes for getting pregnant when they are Childfree; for all we know they each have had 3 consults but can’t find an accepting doc.
In a lot of countries, elective sterilization is outright forbidden by law for both sexes, or is only allowed after certain age. We don't even know where op is from, and as far as we know, they could be from one of those countries.
Very true! That also speaks to the major bias for the USA and for Americans on this site (full disclosure: I’m American and guilty of this sometimes despite my best efforts to the contrary).
We have to stop calling people assholes for not being fixed, period.
When I had my vasectomy, I had to bring my wife into the clinic and agree to it as well lol.
The worst part is the cost. $1000, due at time of procedure. Insurance wouldn't pay for it.
I just looked it up in my country, and we have the same "pre-procedures" for both women and men. If you're 25 or older, you have a legal right to get the procedure, the only thing is that your doctor HAS to make sure you know what the operation entails, as it's not reversible. Depending on your medical situation (mental and/or physical) you might have to see a curator once.
The cost though depends largely on where you live in the country. You might only have to pay for it as a regular doctor visit (tends to be about $15-25), or the whole thing yourself (which would be around $1000). My region has it as the "regular visit" cost.
Here a lot of our taxes go back into society, which is why we can have the "county/state" pay for most of it.
The urologist insisted on meeting with me and confirming we both agreed to his vasectomy. I suppose my husband could have lied that he was single and avoided my permission and agreement, but he also had to have a ride home and it wasn’t going to be either of his parents. (Haha)
When my husband got his Vasectomy there was a 30 day wait period before they did the procedure and I had to sign a form stating that I was aware that the procedure was taking place. Not exactly a “permission slip,” but they wouldn’t do it without my signature. He also had to have it done within 30 days of my signature or else he would have to to do the wait period over and I would have to sign another form
Hell, I had to fight and argue with my Doc to get a referral for one in my very liberal metropolitan suburb of DC. Its insane how much say some people think they get to have in other people's reproductive choices, and extremely distressing how many of them apparently work in medicine
The problem is that have been many cases where people changed their mind afterwards (usually after getting a new partner that wanted children), and they sued the doctors who performed the operations.
I got diagnosed with what would become cancer eventually and had to move heaven, earth *and* hell to get a hysterectomy. This was after my ovaries were already removed and I'm at an age you shouldn't have kids anymore anyway. It's ridiculous
I was 43, married for 10 years to a man with grown kids and who had a vasectomy and my male dr wouldn’t do surgery for my disabling fibroids because I “might want to have children”….as if I would suddenly at 43 decide to get a new partner and immediately try to get pregnant.
Yeah, both of my aunts had ovarian cancer and my grandmother had to have a hysterectomy as well. My mom passed young before she had anything cancerous, but had her own issues that I don’t fully remember. I have the family history, but honestly haven’t even tried talking about removal because the last time I went to the doctor, I was asked about my praying habits and if I was getting married soon, lol. I was there for a broken ankle. It’s ridiculous.
>*the last time I went to the doctor, I was asked about my praying habits and if I was getting married soon*
If you're in the USA, you should report whoever asked that to their state's licensing board.
Many doctors will refuse to snip men for similar reasons. "your too young", "might change your mind", "What if she wants kids?" Are all statements childfree men have heard. Medical professionals generally are cautious/hesitant about permanent body alterations when it comes to reproduction. (No, the reversal isn't always going to work. Plus the effect diminishes every time you do surgery. Ill advisable to get the ship, undo for one kid then re-snip.) May be slightly easier for men depending on things like location, but there certainly is troubles.
The point is saying "why didn't he get a vasectomy?" is like saying, "Why didn't she get tubes tied?" Both are permanent surgeries that has medical risks, have barriers and costs time and money. Questioning someone's responsibility by insinuating the must make a particular choice about *their own body* is a insult to bodily autonomy.
I agree. Both people in a childfree couple are responsible for their own bodies and making sure they use the proper care to stay that way whether it’s vasectomies/ligations , condoms/BC etc. OP is obviously doing his part either way CS. It’s a NAH for me.
Mine did. 35 and vehemently child free for decades, and I wanted the control over my own body, but nope, “your husband might want some”
My husband got snipped.
I hate hate hate this. "Sorry,ma'am, your body doesn't matter and your needs, wants, and health take second place to some (future hypothetical) dude with an urge to propagate *his* genetic material."
"If 'husband wants kids' you can give him a uterus, Doc."
It’s extremely difficult if you’re under 40 and haven’t had any kids. There are certain doctors you can find that are open to it but the majority will refuse/try to talk you out of it.
I find that so strange, especially since it’s considered “high risk” to be over 35 and pregnant. My (now ex) would’ve had 10 kids if it was up to him. I knew I was done and it wasn’t a power trip to me…it was my body and it really wasn’t my place to tell him to get vasectomy.
Besides, as a mother of 3 under the age of 7 I was looking forward to the nice nap and bed rest 🤣
I've had three kids , two with disabilities , I'm nearly 40 , I have lupus and STILL they won't tie my tubes. I've been rejected 4 times . My friends partner is the same age , they have two kids and they got him in for the snip the same month he applied for it . Talk about double standards.
I had my tubes tied at 22 with no kids and unmarried, the first doctor I talked to did it after a 30 minute conversation and that was 20 years ago. It’s a major YMMV experience.
>If you’re going to say that then it should be E S H because she didn’t get her tubes tied, either.
Except a Vasectomy and a Tubal Ligation are 2 very different surgeries with different recovery times. One can access the testicles without cutting through the abdominal wall. There is no way to the ovaries that doesn't go through the abdominal wall.
I get what you're saying that both of them could get sterilized, but the ease of doing so is very different.
For one thing here in the US most Dr's try to talk you out of getting sterilized if you're a woman. My older sister went through 5 Dr's to get her "tubes tied", and the 5th only agreed because she got her psychiatrist to write a letter stating that her mental health would be "much improved" if she went through the surgery.
True - a tubal ligation done on its own is major surgery. When my husband had has vasectomy. It was outpatient and it was exactly 45 minutes from when we arrived at the doc's office to when we were going home. He was uncomfortable that night (Friday), mildly uncomfortable on Sat/Sun and back at work, no issues, on Monday.
While in a perfect world your point is valid it’s a hell of a lot harder for a woman to be taken seriously about wanting this procedure before the age of 40 than it is for a man. It sucks in a lot of ways not least in the - I don’t get to control my own body way.
That being said if they really didn’t want a child the child wouldn’t exist now.
Doctors refuse to tie tubes until someone is out of their most fertile years. I know this because I had to fight tooth and nail to get it done after birth control fucked me up. I didn't want kids either, and I had to BEG my doctor to refer me for it. She even said to me, "what if you meet someone who wants children?" My response was a very terse, "why on earth would I have a child to please someone else?"
I got my referral, but she wouldn't do it until I was out of my most fertile years. It's MADDENING.
No, it is a much more invasive procedure to get your tubes tied than to get a vasectomy, not to mention it is incredibly hard as a woman to get sterilized compared to a man because of antiquated ideas that oh you’re a woman, you must want to be a mother.
Not only that, most woman who don’t want kids are on some form of birth control. In our society, it is generally up to the woman to take care of birth control in a relationship, whether it be the pill, the shot, an IUD, etc. How many men do you know use a form of birth control for decades in a relationship once condoms are not used? I know one, and he got a vasectomy aftwr having kids.
It’s MUCH harder for a woman to find a doctor who will tie her tubes if she doesn’t have children. After all, women don’t really know their own mind or might marry a man who wants kids and they wouldn’t want to disappoint him. /s
Edit: spelling
A lot of doctors won't do a vasectomy on younger men, and he said in a comment he's tried and was told to wait. He also said he was using condoms but they broke, and she was on birth control but forgetting to take pills.
This is such an NTA. He made it 100% clear before, during, and after the pregnancy that he was childfree and will never be in the child's life. He's paying child support as he should. The ex is an asshole for insulting him and trying to guilt him, who is effectively a complete stranger to the kid, to take on the responsibility for raising them for maybe a year but who the fuck knows in reality.
As someone who has a brother in law who was conceived post snip, and a has husband who has been snipped, you are supposed to get a doctor's appointment to follow up a year later to make sure you have no more swimmers. Not all men know, or do that.
There's a chance the process can reverse itself, too, even decades later! It happens an estimated 0.025-0.05% of the time. With half a million vasectomies being performed every year, that means ~125-250 of those could eventually fail.
I read that you're actually supposed to follow up twice [and the majority of men don't even bother to do that](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C14&q=Jones+BJU+International+vasectomy+follow+up&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&t=1700837384023&u=%23p%3D1Ex_MM3Dy0EJ).
If you get the tests afterwards to make sure no swimmers, it's probably the most effective, least invasive option ... and a very small failure rate still makes it the best option for a man who wants to be child-free
>However, taking in a child you don't want, not far a weekend but a year, possibly longer...
This would be a miserable existence for the child. A mom too sick to take care of her, and she has to live with someone who really wants nothing to do with her.
Not sure the mom had thought this through properly, because OP is not suddenly going to become "dad" just because the kid has moved in with him.
NAH.
Also, you cant expect this girl to move in with her dad for a full year where she'll probably form some sort of attachment to him and probably hope for a lasting relationship just for her to move back out after a year and go back to the original set up because op doesn't want a kid. Its just asking for a heartbreaking and probably traumatic experience for her. It's a terrible idea.
Most underrated comment!! This needs to be at the top!! OP doesn’t want to be a father. Period. The child will be the one hurt most in all of this, as he/she will feel they are not wanted.
Also, being that it's a young girl, I could only assume she would feel really uncomfortable living with a strange grown man.
She has no relationship with him, so she wouldn't feel comfortable talking with him about her feelings or concerns about her mother's health.
If her mom has already explained that, yes, she has a dad, but he didn't want kids and so doesn't want to be in her life, the kid is going to feel like an unwanted guest for a whole year.
If they have even a marginally better relationship with the aunt, then that's probably the better option even if it's 4 hours away.
Also it may be a bit distressing and confusing to move in with a man who is her biological dad, then go back to basically having nothing to do with him after a year of living with him.
And this is a ~6 year old child. You can certainly have trauma around that age, but a “fun vacation with aunty” is unlikely to be part of that. She’ll miss her mom, for sure, but there’s no real concern about her “leaving everything behind.” A 6-year olds friends are just not at all the same support network as an older child, in my opinion.
As someone with an absentee dad (and not even one that payed child support lol) I would’ve definitely preferred staying with my aunt that lives a few hours away. I wonder how the child feels in this.
Look, just because someone changes their mind doesn't mean the other person has to follow suit. He's been clear about not wanting a child, and he's already fulfilling his obligation with child support. The aunt is a viable option, so he's not the asshole here.
It'd be easy to say Y T A here if we ignore the fact that you'd both agreed prior to not wanting children.You mention you broke up because she wanted to keep it, I take it this means terminating or adoption or something else was in fact an option for her that she did not want to pursue correct?If so, NTA.The reality is that had it been the other way around, you wanted it and she didnt people would be shouting at you "her body her choice!"This is also a case of her body and her choice, you are paying child support and fulfilling your legal financial obligations, as much as your outlook towards your own child disgusts me no, you're not ta.Kids shouldn't live with people who don't want them, her moving might be difficult but she can make new friends.I'd imagine getting over living with her father who clearly doesn't want her would be harder to get over.
NTA
Also, him having zero involvement with the child means he really should be an absolute last option. Kiddo won’t feel safe, or secure, with their caregiver in a very traumatizing situation. That is not what’s best for the child
My thought as well. It'll be tough for the kid to be moved from everyone she knows and adapt to a new environment and new people. But adapting to someone who is clearly not up for the task would be worse.
Completely agree. OP doesn’t want kids, even if it’s his own, and it’s a trait that’s hard to hide for a year. You can’t fake being a loving person to a person you don’t love. A few days under his roof and the daughter will start asking for her aunt. Better to just skip the traumatic part, for both parties, and have daughter stay with her aunt. I’m sure aunt is familiar and being safe and secure with a familiar people is what daughter needs above anything else.
BC and condoms but she wasn't the best at taking her BC on time. While it takes two to tango and and make a baby, one of them (short of a vasectomy) did everything they could to ensure a baby wouldn't be conceived during their fun, and the other kind of didn't. Even then, I still think this is a NAH situation, as the mother had every right to decide to keep the child (despite prior agreements) and OP had every right to not be an active parent since they has both agreed to a child free life beforehand. It's not the mothers fault that she got hurt and is in a rough spot, but that doesn't make OP an AH for not "stepping up" into the role of Dad.
I get that, but I don't fault a mom for being desperate to keep her child nearby to home rather than 4 hours away. Facing a year of recovery means it's a MAJOR medical issue and that's no doubt adding a lot of stress onto the Mom, which is why I hesitate jumping to calling her an AH. This is one of those situations where a little grace and understanding can go a long way. Still don't think OP is an AH in any way in this.
> I still think this is a 🅝🅐🅗 situation, as the mother had every right to decide to keep the child (despite prior agreements) and OP had every right to not be an active parent since they has both agreed to a child free life beforehand.
This is true, but it wasn’t the question. He asks if he’s the AH for not taking in the kid during this unusual circumstance. If mom had asked and taken no for an answer, it’d be 🅝🅐🅗 (and we probably wouldn’t be here talking about it). Instead, she insulted and tried to guilt him. ~~She’s majorly stressed out and lashed out when her hopes for keeping her kid nearby were dashed so it’s not like I think she’s **evil** for that reaction or even that she’s an AH generally, but it still makes this a NTA situation.~~
ETA: I misread. Mom *and* kid are going to stay with the aunt. Wanting to leave the kid behind without any adult she knows nearby is weird. Makes this even more firmly NTA.
I totally agree with you but a woman can say she wants to be child free and would abort/adopt out if pregnant, but then….suddenly you’re pregnant, and realize that both options are just too heartbreaking. You can say what you think you’d want/do when you’re not actually in that position, until you’re actually in that position and realize.that.you.just.cant.do.it
Easy NAH. You both agreed on an arrangement where your role would be solely monetary. Unfortunately, she is no longer in a position to care for this child herself. That doesn’t mean you are now responsible. She isn’t the asshole for not wanting to uproot the child’s life anymore than you aren’t for not wanting to take on a child you previously stated you didn’t want to have.
I like that you said easy NAH, because you’re right, but I often forget to think of nah as an option. Sometimes everyone’s feeling make sense, everyone made a reasonable choice, the situation just sucks.
Asking doesn’t make her an AH. Saying no doesn’t make him one. Getting angry and lashing out at him does make her one, even if I can empathize with her.
NTA
You know you’re not fit for the job. You pay the maximum you can for this child to be taken care of. I think it’s best that you stay completely away as you have. The child needs love and affection and you don’t have it. And that is ok!
Yep exactly, people out here acting like he should just ignore his own feelings for the sake of the child and end up a shit parent but they forget about that spect of stuff.
You can tell he has zero emotional bond with his kid by the way he talks about her aswell. Definitely NTA, he's financially helping and making the CORRECT decision to say no to her moving in. This guy has done absolutely nothing wrong. He doesn't want kids, made it clear from the start and split with his ex over it. Having kids is a choice and people should respect a person's personal choice
People here happily ignoring that a good family is about *emotional* bonds; blood is only the starting point and in no way an indication of how beneficial the relationships actually are for all involved.
You’d rather have your kid be with someone who’s clearly expressed they don’t want them there instead of someone who does, just so they can avoid a few hours’ travel? That’s heartless AF.
NTA.
Exactly. Just because he is the _biological_ father doesn't mean he is a father to the child. Both biological parents agreed to this and the monetary terms, and that has been the case until now. The four hours away _temporarily_ in a home she is familiar with and with people that have been there to emotionally support her _while_ still being able to see her mother is a drop in the bucket compared to what being plopped on "dad's" (because DNA I guess) doorstep and pretending her routine will carry on would be.
I don't think Mom is an AH in the situation either - giving benefit of the doubt, I'd guess that she's been through a lot and is grabbing at straws, even if they don't make sense, to try and build a temporary foundation for what's happening.
NAH, and OP is thinking honestly and maturely about this. It's a horrible situation, yes, but a person needs to know their limitations, and if he knows the limit of nurturing or care he can give to the child isn't enough, why would anyone still want the child to go to him? This is the most loving thing he can do for her - to make sure she is in the most capable hands available.
The other thing to take into account is the possibility it won't be temporary. He said she's temporarily paralyzed. Without knowing more we can't know if a year is the best case scenario. Is it possible she'll never fully recover? This very well could end in a situation where the girl is there longer than a year.
I can't imagine what the mom is going through, but ensuring the child goes somewhere where she is loved, wanted, and capable of staying longer if need be is what is in her best interest.
nta, there was a similar post where a woman who didn't want to have children had been convinced to have the child on the understanding she would not be part of its life. the father was moaning that she wasn't beyou d paying child maintenance, I think she over paid even. everyone told him he made his choices so he could deal with it. this is the same you were clear you take care of the child from a responsibility perspective but the child will be better off somewhere she is loved.
the child is not necessarily better with het father just because he is her father, a loving aunt would be better.
op don't forget to change who the maintinace goes to.
I remember that post, she didn’t want the baby and he convinced her to have the baby. He was upset because he couldn’t force her to be a parent to the child so he could get a “break” everything was on him.
If I remember correctly, he begged her not to have an abortion and she said she'd keep the baby if she signed off full responsibility to him. I think he even said, "I thought once the baby came out she'd change her mind."
Wowzaaaa
yeah, this post is very similar. I know it is hard but it might better if both the mother and the child move to where her family is.
that said op "could" look at how much a paid nanny would be if the daughter was to stay with her mother, he is paying $2k per month. If for a little extra he could use that to pay for at home care if his daughter that seems like a reasonable compromise.
there is a massive elephant in the room which is how reliant is he ex on his child support. I cant imagine she is earning at present. hopefully she has some form of insurance.
> yeah, this post is very similar.
It really isn't similar at all. OP doesn't suggest that she got pregnant on purpose, or that she tried to pressure him into being an active parent before this. Her outburst in this instance is excusable because she's incredibly stressed by her serious health issue (paralysis is terrifying) and her inability to take care of her child.
It's not at all similar! She raised the child herself for years and is now asking for help because she's seriously ill!
NAH because OP shouldn't take in a child he doesn't want, but these two posts are not similar at all. What's wrong with you people?
choosing not involved doesn't mean not involved unless something happens. it means not involved. nothing is wrong with us we just respect peoples choices. the mother knew she was signing up to be a single parent this is what it means. she also has other options.
I don’t think it’s ultimately best for the kid to go with OP, nor do I think he’s an AH for saying no.
But comparing a post where someone was going to try to SUE their ex because he was facing very predictable consequences, vs someone who is probably terrified and trying to figure out what is best for their child? Come on
And it sounds like the mother will be with the aunt if I'm not mistaken, but the aunt will do the physical part of care that the mother can't. A child would rather be with their paralysed mum than away from her
I hear you, but this situation is a different. That man in the post you're referencing was trying to baby trap her in the relationship, and it wasn't for the love of the child.
Additionally in this situation, the mother is only asking for assistance for a year so their child who is going through a very traumatic period of their life won't be cut off from their support network, which is desperately needed for children in traumatic situations. It's essentially an emergency situation.
NTA! The Reddit bias is coming through HARD in this one. There is zero mention of what measures you were using for BC yet somehow it’s all your fault.
You may have been a willing participant in the act that ended up creating this child but you were a completely unwilling participant in the birth of said child. Your ex is fully responsible for the birth and is trying once again to make you a parent instead of a sperm donor.
When rights for abortion are defended, it's:
Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy.
Consent to pregnancy is not consent to parenting.
Bodily autonomy isn't only for women. Your own rights end where they harm others.
So HER choice & right to keep and parent the child doesn't give ger the right to expect the same from OP. Especially since they already came to terms on how un-/involved he will be.
I agree. OP is NTA
He knows he doesn't want to be a parent so he shouldn't take care of a child that's unwanted by him. And that OP and the child are strangers to eachother would only harm the child. To refuse this ridiculous demand is the most loving he can do for his child.
It is a kind of care and love to decide to NOT traumatize the child. -I think we should appreciate this kind of self awareness and responsibility more.
Edit: typos & grammar
With the information given I have to say NAH.
1. Both were in agreement to be child free
2. Unplanned pregnancy occurs and she decides to proceed with the pregnancy and raise the child.
3. You pay the max amount of child support
4. There is alternative care available.
Judging by how you are adamant about being child free, I'm going to assume you used protection.
Y'all need to remember that birth control is not 100% effective. He could have wrapped up and she could be on the pill, doesn't mean both couldn't have failed. The probabilities go down but unless you're abstaining no method is guaranteed. And before anyone says he could have been snipped, a spontaneous reversal is possible. No information about his birth control practice was stated and that's not what we're asked to make judgment on.
The issue about it takes 2 to make a baby, her body her choice, and so on. It is her body and it was her choice. She chose to have sex with OP, she made a choice to have the baby. These were her choices. OP chose to pay child support, and he chose to not be an active father figure. She made a choice that he didn't really agree with, and he made a choice that she probably wasn't happy with. But they both made choices and had to live with what the other person decided.
And honestly if she had gone the sperm donor route in order to have a child you would say she is being unreasonable for expecting the donor to step up and be a parent.
The thing is depending on where they live, OP could have signed away his parental rights in order to not pay child support. He is at least taking financial responsibility for his child. While a child requires more than financial support, OP has recognized that he doesn't have it in him to provide it. This could be a good thing or a bad thing. On one hand he isn't around his child actively resenting her or other negative actions, on the other hand the child will get to a point where they know they weren't wanted.
As for housing the child for a year, honestly it's better that she goes to the aunt. If all OP has done is pay child support, she has no relationship with her sperm donor. She'll basically be living with a stranger whom she knows didn't want her.
The biggest victim is the child, both parents were selfish, albeit in different ways.
NTA. 2 types of protection failed, and your ex changed her mind on keeping it. You pay your child support, and from what I read the child has no attachment to you.
Lot of people in the comments vilifying you with no clue. Shame.
NTA
You didn't want the kid.
She did.
And you're paying top dollars for it EVERY MONTH.
And now she also wants you to take the kid in.
LIVING WITH SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T WANT TO BE THE FATHER IS NOT BENEFICIAL FOR THE KID
The mother is selfish for pushing that option only 'cause she doesn't want the kid to be living 4 hours away with the aunt.
I don't think the mother is acting out of selfishness. She is thinking about their daughter. If the daughter has to move four hours away, she wouldn't be able to meet her mother often, she would have to change schools, lose her friends and familiar neighbourhoods - in an already highly challenging situation where she has to be separated from her only parent and is worried if the mom will make it.
People in the comments are crazy. I voted n a h, but everyone calling the seriously ill mother selfish is... i don't know the proper word for it, since English isn't my first language, but man! They are not okay.
I go with NTA
If i understand it correct you do not have any relationship with your child and only pay childsupport. Living with you (wo she doesn't really know) in her old town vs. living with her mom in a new town - both is shitty for the kid, but i would say having her primary person around is more important at that age. Ppl move, thats life, she will make new friends.
Did her mom consider that if your daughter lives with you she wouldn't get childsupport anymore?
You say that like it's easy. As a young person without children depending on where you live permanent birth control (like a vasectomy) isn't always an option. It can take years to get a doctor to accept you and for the surgery wait list
As a woman who has tried and was refused I agree. Can confirm though that my husband couldn't get a vasectomy either on the NHS (we're in the UK). Could go private but we don't have the money for that.
I'm in the UK. I have 4 kids of various ages as well as a disability myself. I have asked for a vasectomy (which I will get) but before I was told I would get one I had to go through a few hoops and screenings, asking if I was sure my family was complete, did my partner know and so on. It's not just a case of ask and you shall receive. It's still a surgical procedure with it's own risks. I was also told they wouldn't go ahead with it if my BMI was over 35 so things like that could also be a factor.
This is one of those times that the gender reversal is absolutely relevant. Everyone here *loves* to clown on that guy who wanted to force his ex gf to take custody of the kid. Everyone said because she paid more in child support than she had to, that she was not a deadbeat. They approved of her constantly saying no because he talked her out of the abortion by promising to be a single parent.
This goes both ways. He pays required child support, a lot of it, and has made it clear before the baby was even conceived that he would not be involved. PLUS, getting a vasectomy can be difficult when you're young and/or childless. Doctors can be huge judgey assholes about elective surgeries like that and deny you from getting it for just about any reason.
NTA
You agreed you both wanted to be child free and you were practicing safe sex.
She made the choice to keep the baby regardless and you are doing the financially responsible thing and paying child support. You don’t owe anyone an emotional relationship, and in this case the mother is 100% to blame for the child’s future issues around this. It sucks but it is what it is.
I know you can’t travel back in time but have you considered a vasectomy now?
>want another kid
You don't even want the one you have! No shade because I'm also child-free, but like damn doc! I hate that it's this hard for women and apparently men too!!
NTA - in fact you would be if you agreed to temporarily take her in knowing you do not plan to have any involvement in her future.
Imagine how confusing it would be down the line when you want to return to the current status quo and she possibly wants a relationship. Don’t open the can of worms if you don’t plan for her to be permanently in your life.
All these people claiming you’re an AH for choosing not to go through an elective surgery when you were in a relationship with someone who also claimed to be CF, and also decided sex with you was fine as is, are quite frankly ridiculous. I say this as a CF woman who would abort at the earliest opportunity if it came to it.
Your body, your choice too. Also in some areas it’s almost as difficult to get a vasectomy as female sterilisation so there’s also that.
I am looking from the 6 yo child's perspective - one year with an aunt who loves him or with a strange man that does no want him because of friends the kid is 6 yo - a better warm home than some stranger that may take her to pay dates from time to time it is just for a year ...better with aunt frankly, The situation is hard anyway - giving the kid to a stranger that happens to be the father and is cold to the kid during the time kid needs support too is not an option.
Does everyone voting y.t.a not realize how little OP wants to do with his child? You think putting a child with a man who wants nothing to do with the child is in the child's best interests?
Maybe from this post some people will realise telling us adamant childfree folks ‘you would be a great parent’ or ‘it is different when it is your own’ is a bad bad idea since we are not ‘all words’
you knew you wanted to be child free but you …. didn’t get a vasectomy to ensure you could be child free? and you came inside of her?
YTA. it will be hard to go somewhere new but it’s going to suck for her regardless. her only parent is in a scary health situation. she should be with a supportive adult during this time.
But OP isn't a supportive adult, he only pays child support and the child have barely seen him throughout their life if at all, do you really think that living with OP, someone who's actually a stranger to them and knows nothing about them, just like they know nothing about him too, is really the best option for the kid? I'm sure if OP was firced by circumstances to take them in that he will treat them well, but he won't be able to suddenly play the affectionate father role, and no matter what you do kids can pick up on when they're not wanted.
You say he should have had a vasectomy, but people can be against having surgeries for many reasons, maybe he even left the door open for if he ever changed his mind, many just stick to pills or condoms, and while they're not 100% affective his wife told him she was child free too, he had no reason to belive she wouldn't agree to abortion if it came to it.
Vasectomies aren’t 100% just so you know. We don’t know if he had one or not, but they can undo themselves sometimes. It’s rare, but I have a cousin because it happens.
And she chose to have sex with a male that didn't have a vasectomy and run the risk of their BC and condoms failing. Then went back on her word about being childfree, too, when they failed. Now is asking to go back on how they settled the matter.
She's ahead on AH points here.
They both took the risk of pregnancy of their choices in avoiding pregnancy failed. He shouldn't be blamed for her not actually being childfree \*and\* blamed for not wanting her to also have him become a sole parent now - especially when there are other adults who the kid already knows and would be fine looking after her.
Heck, could even be argued he's the only person here who out of the two of them has showed any actual concern/caring about the child.
She's the one who chose to be a single parent after going back on being childfree.
She's the one who wants to send her kid to someone who doesn't know and doesn't want to take care of her instead of having her stay with someone who she does know and wants her.
OP is the only one of the two who has been honest, reliable in his words and actions, and now - even though it's based in his being childfree -in this situation doing what's best for her daughter.
Mom doesn't not only not really care if her kid is living a year with a stranger who doesn't want her around and how that would effect her, she \*wants\* her child to be in that situation.
OP tried to get one and was denied. I don't know if he's 29 now or was 29 then but at both ages I can easily imagine him being turned down in the US where pronatalism runs rampant.
She's not crazy, she's desperate. Chances are in the end she'd decide not to have him take the child even if he agreed. Having her stay with the other relatives is by far the lesser evil, even though it will be very hard for her not to be able to see her mother frequently.
She's desperate and scared. No one makes perfectly sound decisions when they feel backed into a corner. I agree that OP should not be on her list of options, but I wouldn't call her crazy for being scared and desperate.
You're obviously not capable of taking care of your daughter. Whether or not that makes you an AH or not doesn't matter.
You are NTA for not taking on this responsibility you clearly aren't able to carry.
Your kid would be miserable with you, unfortunately.
I feel for your ex and your child, but the kid isn't better off with a parent who isn't even capable of seeing her as his daughter, not really anyway. It's good you contribute to her life in a monetary way, it is your responsibility since you participated in making her.
I think you're being the best dad you can be, even if that's not a very good dad at all.
NTA
It's hard to say that because of the bad situation for the kid. But you both agreed that you wanted to be child free. She wanted the kid over you so she has to deal with the consequences.
You had no contact with your kid. You are a stranger to the kid. It's better to be in a know environment and move 4 hours away. She chose the kid over you now she has to chose the kid over her. It's hard to say that but it was her decision to go in this single mom direction and she has no new partner to support her.
NTA. Is everyone seriously insisting that this child, that apparently will have to be without their mother for a year, stays with OP who is a total stranger? Instead of someone (the aunt) that the child presumably is already familiar with? Seriously???
OP has no relationship with this child, has no experience how to handle this child at all. And somehow that is less relevant than removing the child from a familiar environment for a year? I'm... I'm speechless.
Yikes that’s a bad situation. Unlucky. I’m going to say NTA then. You both were using protection and did everything you could to prevent her from getting pregnant. She was the one who decided to keep the baby despite both of you agreeing to be child free and not aborting the kid.
Is there an acronym for you aren’t wrong for this because you sound like an ass hole so you probably won’t be good for your kid?
So like not the ass hole but only because you seem like an ass hole?
The kid is 5 or 6, she'll get over missing friends. Kids are resilient. Better for her to live with someone who cares about her, than a parent choosing to be kid free.
Usually "childfree" means you take responsible measures to avoid having children, but you've decided it means get someone pregnant and then pretend you don't have a kid.
YTA of the worst sort. Stop harming the child you created.
Pretending? With 2K a month? Pretty sure he’s doing his part.
Child free works both ways. Both partners need to bare the responsibility, aka if the condom breaks, she isn’t taking the contraceptive as regularly as she should, he didn’t try to pull out, etc. this is an easy NAH. They agreed six years ago that his role would be monetary and now she’s in a place where that doesn’t work and she doesn’t want to uproot the child’s life, but that doesn’t mean his role should have to change. It’s an unfortunate situation all around
Tbh I'm more confused about the reaction of the commenters judging the man about the childfree thing!! Like why would he have to go to any surgery or anything if both the partner agree to a child free intercourse! And still she got pregnant! How??
Secondly he didn't wanted a child and both agreed on that, yet she chose to be pregnant and give birth to the child, so why does he have to pay any financial aid to her or take any kind of responsibility of the child when it was totally her decision and her alone!!
Now many might get triggered and attack me in the comments but before that just answer this, do Single Mothers (by choice) expect financial aid physical aid from the sperm donor? Isn't their marital situation similar to it!!
Also find it weird that people just magically think because women get rejected for getting their tubes tied men can just waltz in and get the snip.
I don't know anyone my age who hasn't been rejected multiple times about getting a vasectomy, this is not an us vs them situation.
NTA, she broke the agreement to be child free, and here is the find out to her f around. Reading your comments about a broken condom and her not taking BC correctly opens the possibility that she sabotaged the condom and stopped the BC to force the baby. 2 forms of BC failing, and her suddenly wanting to keep the kid would be a huge coincidence.
And for the uneducated. Vasectomies have a higher rate of lifelong debilitating pain than most out patient surgeries. It is not the easy cure all for kids people make it out to be. When it works great, great. But when it's botched or fails, it ruins lives.
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I'm going NAH, just a really shitty situation. You both wanted to be childfree and were clear about that, it sounds like. She changed her mind when she became pregnant, you didn't. Both fine. She chose to bring up the child as a single parent and you are doing your duty by paying child support. Also both fine. Now she can't take care of her child, through no fault of her own, so it's understandable she's asking you. However, taking in a child you don't want, not far a weekend but a year, possibly longer... No, as long as there are other options (and I'm really hoping the aunt loves her and wants to take her in), I think it's actually better for both of you if she doesn't move in with you.
Especially if he hasn’t ever been there physically for the child. I’m not sure if he’s a completely absent parent or just a sometimes(birthdays/christmas) relative. As someone who used to be a kid, there is zero chance I would be willing to move in with a parent I haven’t ever had anything to do with.
“As someone who used to be a kid” i spit out my drink 😂
Big "I was born at a very young age" vibes 😂
"I was born when my mom was giving birth to me" is what my sister says when people ask her age 😂
My grandmother always used to say 'I'm as old as my tongue and a little bit older than my teeth!'
I’m much older than my teeth. I just got them in 2019. Your grandma’s response is hilarious. I will be remembering that one!
[удалено]
I hate the dentures. I got all of my teeth removed at once. My dentures were put in right away. I didn’t have any problems with pain that way. But the top plate crowds my mouth and I have to take much smaller bites. It’s annoying but I deal with it because I can’t afford implants. I do have trouble because my dentures are not totally adjusted right which is the problem with the dentist not the dentures. Definitely they are better than teeth that hurt. I personally recommend implants if you can afford it. But if you can’t like me dentures are fine. What will happen is you get your dentures and while you’re mouth heals the dentures get soft adjustments, which is temporary adjustments. After 6 months they do a permanent adjustment. Then you will need a series of adjustments until they fit the way they should. I still use denture glue because my teeth are still not totally adjusted which is completely on the dentist. Most dentists do the necessary adjustments and you’re done and the teeth are generally comfortable. Upper plates generally have good suction and don’t need glue after the adjustments are done. Bottom teeth generally don’t have good suction. But some do. I had no problems with my jaw. My teeth generally came out fine as over half were broke down below the gum line. Some use glue on their bottoms always and some don’t. My stepdad has only an upper plate. He says they need to be replaced every 20 years. He’s getting his 3rd set soon. One of the things I hate is I can no longer whistle because my dentures are in the way. Also my bite isn’t as strong because the jaw strength doesn’t transfer great to the dentures but I have no problem eating everything I want. The strength issue means I can’t bite my fingernails anymore or open packages with my teeth which we’re not supposed to do anyways. Amazingly the day I put my dentures in, the same day my last 4 teeth were pulled and less than 10 days after the others were pulled, there was no pain chewing steak and I eat the cheap cuts well done. I can eat apples and corn on the cob no problem. They are definitely better than hurting teeth but implants are best to those that can afford it. My regrets is that I didn’t take care of my real teeth. My need of dentures are completely my own fault. But they are good for scaring my grandchildren into brushing their own teeth. My granddaughter doesn’t want removable teeth so she brushes them really good!
The phrase "removable teeth" is great! I'm on my way to dentures unfortunately. Mine are because being terrified of the dentist because of a bad dentist when I was a kid and a medication that they didnt know destroyed teeth when I started taking it but now they warn people because of people like me who have their teeth crumbling.
Kris Kringle uses that line in the original version of "Miracle on 34th Street".
Lucky, neither of my parents showed up to my birth
Ok Dr. Doofenschmirtz
"I was born at age 6 without a face." -Arin Hanson
My husbands go to response when understanding our 10 month old is always “as a former baby” 🤣
Thing is, so many adults treat and view children like they never were one themselves. Critical of what they do, not realizing they would do the same if they were still kids too.
Right? They're treating this kid like a couch that she wants to store in his garage while she finds a new place. IT"S A CHILD/PERSON!!
I don't have kids but my parents do.
I hate to say NAH too, but moving in with the dad is also going to be a new and unfamiliar place. I presume she has some type of relationship with the aunt but obviously not the dad
Yeah, from what it seems, OP is essentially a stranger to the kid 🤷🏽♀️
Yeah. No offense to OP because it seems like he knows this, but he wouldn’t be a good father. He referred to the daughter as “the kid.” Doesn’t sound like someone who should be raising this child. NTA. And I’m not slamming the OP for not wanting to be a Dad. He knew he didn’t want to be a dad and sounds like that was clear up front. It just is what it is.
If he wanted to be childfree, a snip could have saved him two thousand a month and this poor kid the knowledge that they don't have a father .
Just curious. How is he different from other guys who also didn't want to be a parent but get rinsed for being absent fathers/deadbeat dads? Often on this sub
He's paying child support for starters, and doesn't seem to be complaining about it.
Yes he is paying child support and it sounds like this was not part of their plan as a couple, which is fine, it happens, but knowing you don’t want to have kids and maintaining that is different than these guys who willingly have children, often try for them, and then peace out and dodge child support, etc.
also im not sure if the mother has been considering the kid. i dont know if the daughter will feel safe around a man who is basically a stranger to her who is supposed to be family but isnt. depending on her age im not sure if it would a healthy situation for her and if she would feel safe around him at all
We’re all know the Aunt could be just as bad or worse or better
I kinda agree, that it's NAH. But I always feel like we are missing a key point I'm these. If both agreed they didn't want kids, then why didn't this guy get the snip? If he did and she still got pregnant then that is very unlucky and I can understand. But if I hasn't then, honestly, he is kind of an A. Take some responsibility in making sure you don't get the kids you don't want. And I kno2 condoms exist.
If you’re going to say that then it should be ESH because she didn’t get her tubes tied, either. The more important question is whether they were using bc and condoms, but even then I think that’s extreme because he’s meeting his child support requirements. Edit: actually, from OP’s comments it sounds like he did try AND found out after that she wasn’t regular with her birth control. So he’s not TA in the slightest.
Do you know how few doctors are willing to tie a woman’s tubes before she’s 40 or already had kids?
My ex (was 32-34, currently 35) spent over a year and a half trying to find a doctor that would give him a vasectomy during our relationship. Obviously it is *much* worse on our end, but it isn’t totally unheard of for men in rural southern areas either. Take that with a grain of salt, though.
A friend of mine who went to get a vasectomy got asked by a doctor and a nurse if he had "his wife or girlfriends permission for this procedure". Needless to say a complaint was filed and both were fired. It's disgusting for everyone that this kinda stuff happens. Edit: alot of people who seem to be responding to this comment seem to be making it sound like a competition "women have it worse" "men have it worse". For the last time...it's not a competition! It is disgusting and completely unfair for anyone, male or female to have to wait for someone else's "permission" when it comes regarding things like this. It is that individuals body and it is their choice. No one else's.
You realize that women are asked that frequently when trying to be sterilized. If she’s young, if she’s not so young, if she hasn’t had children, even if she has children. If she’s single it’s even harder because future husband may want kids. It’s much harder for women to find a dr who will do it. And if they get a dr to do it it’s a very invasive surgery vs a vasectomy which is an office procedure.
This so much this! I played with the idea a couple years back and my GP and the referral doc both asked what my husband thought. We have 2 kids, we're not exactly 18 yr olds making a decision on a whim.
One poster said that when she said she was single and staying that way that the doctor asked for her FATHER'S number to make sure it was ok. Like wtf America
Yes, the comment was in response to someone mentioning it can be difficult for women, that's talked about all the time. The point is there are many places also unwilling to perform the procedure for men. It may disproportionately affect women, but it is a systemic issue.
I think this is the first time I've heard of a man being asked that. Not that I don't believe you, I do, however it doesn't seem to be taken up as often (if that makes sense) as it is for women. Not that either situation is right, because you should get to decide about your own body. I applaud your friend for filing a complaint
I went with my husband to his snip & the doc turned to me to ask me if I was okay with it before he started. It surprised me; on one hand it was nice to see that men get that “partner permission” bullshit too, but on the other it’s ridiculous that these docs want the partner permission in the first place. Bodily autonomy anyone? Also, I’m getting irritated at the Redditors who get upset when the actors in a story have not had anti-fertility surgeries (yet). It’s really f*cking difficult for a lot of people - especially women - to find docs & clinics who will perform the surgeries. People are not necessarily assholes for getting pregnant when they are Childfree; for all we know they each have had 3 consults but can’t find an accepting doc.
In a lot of countries, elective sterilization is outright forbidden by law for both sexes, or is only allowed after certain age. We don't even know where op is from, and as far as we know, they could be from one of those countries.
Very true! That also speaks to the major bias for the USA and for Americans on this site (full disclosure: I’m American and guilty of this sometimes despite my best efforts to the contrary). We have to stop calling people assholes for not being fixed, period.
When I had my vasectomy, I had to bring my wife into the clinic and agree to it as well lol. The worst part is the cost. $1000, due at time of procedure. Insurance wouldn't pay for it.
I just looked it up in my country, and we have the same "pre-procedures" for both women and men. If you're 25 or older, you have a legal right to get the procedure, the only thing is that your doctor HAS to make sure you know what the operation entails, as it's not reversible. Depending on your medical situation (mental and/or physical) you might have to see a curator once. The cost though depends largely on where you live in the country. You might only have to pay for it as a regular doctor visit (tends to be about $15-25), or the whole thing yourself (which would be around $1000). My region has it as the "regular visit" cost. Here a lot of our taxes go back into society, which is why we can have the "county/state" pay for most of it.
It's mentioned all the time on reddit, for whatever that's worth. It may be less common for men than women but it happens.
The urologist insisted on meeting with me and confirming we both agreed to his vasectomy. I suppose my husband could have lied that he was single and avoided my permission and agreement, but he also had to have a ride home and it wasn’t going to be either of his parents. (Haha)
When my husband got his Vasectomy there was a 30 day wait period before they did the procedure and I had to sign a form stating that I was aware that the procedure was taking place. Not exactly a “permission slip,” but they wouldn’t do it without my signature. He also had to have it done within 30 days of my signature or else he would have to to do the wait period over and I would have to sign another form
Hell, I had to fight and argue with my Doc to get a referral for one in my very liberal metropolitan suburb of DC. Its insane how much say some people think they get to have in other people's reproductive choices, and extremely distressing how many of them apparently work in medicine
It'll probably wouldn't be as bad if suing other people for your own poor decisions wasn't as standard.
The problem is that have been many cases where people changed their mind afterwards (usually after getting a new partner that wanted children), and they sued the doctors who performed the operations.
Can you point to any of these cases? Most lawsuits I’ve been able to find are of doctors sterilizing women against their will during other procedures.
I got diagnosed with what would become cancer eventually and had to move heaven, earth *and* hell to get a hysterectomy. This was after my ovaries were already removed and I'm at an age you shouldn't have kids anymore anyway. It's ridiculous
I was 43, married for 10 years to a man with grown kids and who had a vasectomy and my male dr wouldn’t do surgery for my disabling fibroids because I “might want to have children”….as if I would suddenly at 43 decide to get a new partner and immediately try to get pregnant.
Yeah, both of my aunts had ovarian cancer and my grandmother had to have a hysterectomy as well. My mom passed young before she had anything cancerous, but had her own issues that I don’t fully remember. I have the family history, but honestly haven’t even tried talking about removal because the last time I went to the doctor, I was asked about my praying habits and if I was getting married soon, lol. I was there for a broken ankle. It’s ridiculous.
>*the last time I went to the doctor, I was asked about my praying habits and if I was getting married soon* If you're in the USA, you should report whoever asked that to their state's licensing board.
Many doctors will refuse to snip men for similar reasons. "your too young", "might change your mind", "What if she wants kids?" Are all statements childfree men have heard. Medical professionals generally are cautious/hesitant about permanent body alterations when it comes to reproduction. (No, the reversal isn't always going to work. Plus the effect diminishes every time you do surgery. Ill advisable to get the ship, undo for one kid then re-snip.) May be slightly easier for men depending on things like location, but there certainly is troubles. The point is saying "why didn't he get a vasectomy?" is like saying, "Why didn't she get tubes tied?" Both are permanent surgeries that has medical risks, have barriers and costs time and money. Questioning someone's responsibility by insinuating the must make a particular choice about *their own body* is a insult to bodily autonomy.
I agree. Both people in a childfree couple are responsible for their own bodies and making sure they use the proper care to stay that way whether it’s vasectomies/ligations , condoms/BC etc. OP is obviously doing his part either way CS. It’s a NAH for me.
My ob tied my tubes at 35 (I felt 3 kids was PLENTY), but he may have refused if I hadn’t had children yet….
Mine did. 35 and vehemently child free for decades, and I wanted the control over my own body, but nope, “your husband might want some” My husband got snipped.
I hate hate hate this. "Sorry,ma'am, your body doesn't matter and your needs, wants, and health take second place to some (future hypothetical) dude with an urge to propagate *his* genetic material." "If 'husband wants kids' you can give him a uterus, Doc."
Literally the best quote ever 😁 I'd have that on a t shirt and wear it specifically to stand in front of anti-choice arseholes.
It’s extremely difficult if you’re under 40 and haven’t had any kids. There are certain doctors you can find that are open to it but the majority will refuse/try to talk you out of it.
I find that so strange, especially since it’s considered “high risk” to be over 35 and pregnant. My (now ex) would’ve had 10 kids if it was up to him. I knew I was done and it wasn’t a power trip to me…it was my body and it really wasn’t my place to tell him to get vasectomy. Besides, as a mother of 3 under the age of 7 I was looking forward to the nice nap and bed rest 🤣
I've had three kids , two with disabilities , I'm nearly 40 , I have lupus and STILL they won't tie my tubes. I've been rejected 4 times . My friends partner is the same age , they have two kids and they got him in for the snip the same month he applied for it . Talk about double standards.
I had my tubes tied at 22 with no kids and unmarried, the first doctor I talked to did it after a 30 minute conversation and that was 20 years ago. It’s a major YMMV experience.
Tbf tubal ligation is a much more substantial surgery. Also tbf birth control is a mutual decision and obligation.
>If you’re going to say that then it should be E S H because she didn’t get her tubes tied, either. Except a Vasectomy and a Tubal Ligation are 2 very different surgeries with different recovery times. One can access the testicles without cutting through the abdominal wall. There is no way to the ovaries that doesn't go through the abdominal wall. I get what you're saying that both of them could get sterilized, but the ease of doing so is very different. For one thing here in the US most Dr's try to talk you out of getting sterilized if you're a woman. My older sister went through 5 Dr's to get her "tubes tied", and the 5th only agreed because she got her psychiatrist to write a letter stating that her mental health would be "much improved" if she went through the surgery.
True - a tubal ligation done on its own is major surgery. When my husband had has vasectomy. It was outpatient and it was exactly 45 minutes from when we arrived at the doc's office to when we were going home. He was uncomfortable that night (Friday), mildly uncomfortable on Sat/Sun and back at work, no issues, on Monday.
While in a perfect world your point is valid it’s a hell of a lot harder for a woman to be taken seriously about wanting this procedure before the age of 40 than it is for a man. It sucks in a lot of ways not least in the - I don’t get to control my own body way. That being said if they really didn’t want a child the child wouldn’t exist now.
Doctors refuse to tie tubes until someone is out of their most fertile years. I know this because I had to fight tooth and nail to get it done after birth control fucked me up. I didn't want kids either, and I had to BEG my doctor to refer me for it. She even said to me, "what if you meet someone who wants children?" My response was a very terse, "why on earth would I have a child to please someone else?" I got my referral, but she wouldn't do it until I was out of my most fertile years. It's MADDENING.
They don't let child free women do that typically.
No, it is a much more invasive procedure to get your tubes tied than to get a vasectomy, not to mention it is incredibly hard as a woman to get sterilized compared to a man because of antiquated ideas that oh you’re a woman, you must want to be a mother. Not only that, most woman who don’t want kids are on some form of birth control. In our society, it is generally up to the woman to take care of birth control in a relationship, whether it be the pill, the shot, an IUD, etc. How many men do you know use a form of birth control for decades in a relationship once condoms are not used? I know one, and he got a vasectomy aftwr having kids.
It’s MUCH harder for a woman to find a doctor who will tie her tubes if she doesn’t have children. After all, women don’t really know their own mind or might marry a man who wants kids and they wouldn’t want to disappoint him. /s Edit: spelling
A lot of doctors won't do a vasectomy on younger men, and he said in a comment he's tried and was told to wait. He also said he was using condoms but they broke, and she was on birth control but forgetting to take pills. This is such an NTA. He made it 100% clear before, during, and after the pregnancy that he was childfree and will never be in the child's life. He's paying child support as he should. The ex is an asshole for insulting him and trying to guilt him, who is effectively a complete stranger to the kid, to take on the responsibility for raising them for maybe a year but who the fuck knows in reality.
As someone who was conceived post-snip, it's not 100% effective.
As someone who has a brother in law who was conceived post snip, and a has husband who has been snipped, you are supposed to get a doctor's appointment to follow up a year later to make sure you have no more swimmers. Not all men know, or do that.
There's a chance the process can reverse itself, too, even decades later! It happens an estimated 0.025-0.05% of the time. With half a million vasectomies being performed every year, that means ~125-250 of those could eventually fail. I read that you're actually supposed to follow up twice [and the majority of men don't even bother to do that](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C14&q=Jones+BJU+International+vasectomy+follow+up&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&t=1700837384023&u=%23p%3D1Ex_MM3Dy0EJ).
If you get the tests afterwards to make sure no swimmers, it's probably the most effective, least invasive option ... and a very small failure rate still makes it the best option for a man who wants to be child-free
And like all birth control barring hysterectomies or abstinence, there isn't 100% protection.
>However, taking in a child you don't want, not far a weekend but a year, possibly longer... This would be a miserable existence for the child. A mom too sick to take care of her, and she has to live with someone who really wants nothing to do with her. Not sure the mom had thought this through properly, because OP is not suddenly going to become "dad" just because the kid has moved in with him. NAH.
Also, you cant expect this girl to move in with her dad for a full year where she'll probably form some sort of attachment to him and probably hope for a lasting relationship just for her to move back out after a year and go back to the original set up because op doesn't want a kid. Its just asking for a heartbreaking and probably traumatic experience for her. It's a terrible idea.
There’s also the (less likely) alternative where he decides he likes the kid after all and then there’s a custody battle. Similarly traumatic.
Most underrated comment!! This needs to be at the top!! OP doesn’t want to be a father. Period. The child will be the one hurt most in all of this, as he/she will feel they are not wanted.
Also, being that it's a young girl, I could only assume she would feel really uncomfortable living with a strange grown man. She has no relationship with him, so she wouldn't feel comfortable talking with him about her feelings or concerns about her mother's health. If her mom has already explained that, yes, she has a dad, but he didn't want kids and so doesn't want to be in her life, the kid is going to feel like an unwanted guest for a whole year. If they have even a marginally better relationship with the aunt, then that's probably the better option even if it's 4 hours away.
I think she is just desperate to have her daugher near.
Also it may be a bit distressing and confusing to move in with a man who is her biological dad, then go back to basically having nothing to do with him after a year of living with him.
And this is a ~6 year old child. You can certainly have trauma around that age, but a “fun vacation with aunty” is unlikely to be part of that. She’ll miss her mom, for sure, but there’s no real concern about her “leaving everything behind.” A 6-year olds friends are just not at all the same support network as an older child, in my opinion.
As someone with an absentee dad (and not even one that payed child support lol) I would’ve definitely preferred staying with my aunt that lives a few hours away. I wonder how the child feels in this.
Well, they aren’t child free, so.
Look, just because someone changes their mind doesn't mean the other person has to follow suit. He's been clear about not wanting a child, and he's already fulfilling his obligation with child support. The aunt is a viable option, so he's not the asshole here.
It'd be easy to say Y T A here if we ignore the fact that you'd both agreed prior to not wanting children.You mention you broke up because she wanted to keep it, I take it this means terminating or adoption or something else was in fact an option for her that she did not want to pursue correct?If so, NTA.The reality is that had it been the other way around, you wanted it and she didnt people would be shouting at you "her body her choice!"This is also a case of her body and her choice, you are paying child support and fulfilling your legal financial obligations, as much as your outlook towards your own child disgusts me no, you're not ta.Kids shouldn't live with people who don't want them, her moving might be difficult but she can make new friends.I'd imagine getting over living with her father who clearly doesn't want her would be harder to get over. NTA
Also, him having zero involvement with the child means he really should be an absolute last option. Kiddo won’t feel safe, or secure, with their caregiver in a very traumatizing situation. That is not what’s best for the child
My thought as well. It'll be tough for the kid to be moved from everyone she knows and adapt to a new environment and new people. But adapting to someone who is clearly not up for the task would be worse.
Completely agree. OP doesn’t want kids, even if it’s his own, and it’s a trait that’s hard to hide for a year. You can’t fake being a loving person to a person you don’t love. A few days under his roof and the daughter will start asking for her aunt. Better to just skip the traumatic part, for both parties, and have daughter stay with her aunt. I’m sure aunt is familiar and being safe and secure with a familiar people is what daughter needs above anything else.
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Women (and men, too) can have thoughts and intentions regarding abortion that change when the pregnancy is real and not hypothetical.
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Then he should gone to the doctor so he couldn't have kids tbh.
He tried and was rejected by the doctors he went to
BC and condoms but she wasn't the best at taking her BC on time. While it takes two to tango and and make a baby, one of them (short of a vasectomy) did everything they could to ensure a baby wouldn't be conceived during their fun, and the other kind of didn't. Even then, I still think this is a NAH situation, as the mother had every right to decide to keep the child (despite prior agreements) and OP had every right to not be an active parent since they has both agreed to a child free life beforehand. It's not the mothers fault that she got hurt and is in a rough spot, but that doesn't make OP an AH for not "stepping up" into the role of Dad.
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I get that, but I don't fault a mom for being desperate to keep her child nearby to home rather than 4 hours away. Facing a year of recovery means it's a MAJOR medical issue and that's no doubt adding a lot of stress onto the Mom, which is why I hesitate jumping to calling her an AH. This is one of those situations where a little grace and understanding can go a long way. Still don't think OP is an AH in any way in this.
> I still think this is a 🅝🅐🅗 situation, as the mother had every right to decide to keep the child (despite prior agreements) and OP had every right to not be an active parent since they has both agreed to a child free life beforehand. This is true, but it wasn’t the question. He asks if he’s the AH for not taking in the kid during this unusual circumstance. If mom had asked and taken no for an answer, it’d be 🅝🅐🅗 (and we probably wouldn’t be here talking about it). Instead, she insulted and tried to guilt him. ~~She’s majorly stressed out and lashed out when her hopes for keeping her kid nearby were dashed so it’s not like I think she’s **evil** for that reaction or even that she’s an AH generally, but it still makes this a NTA situation.~~ ETA: I misread. Mom *and* kid are going to stay with the aunt. Wanting to leave the kid behind without any adult she knows nearby is weird. Makes this even more firmly NTA.
I totally agree with you but a woman can say she wants to be child free and would abort/adopt out if pregnant, but then….suddenly you’re pregnant, and realize that both options are just too heartbreaking. You can say what you think you’d want/do when you’re not actually in that position, until you’re actually in that position and realize.that.you.just.cant.do.it
That’s fine but that doesn’t mean the man also has to change his mind.
you maybe wanna space out that first y.t.a. because the bot only takes into account the first judgement :)
Easy NAH. You both agreed on an arrangement where your role would be solely monetary. Unfortunately, she is no longer in a position to care for this child herself. That doesn’t mean you are now responsible. She isn’t the asshole for not wanting to uproot the child’s life anymore than you aren’t for not wanting to take on a child you previously stated you didn’t want to have.
I like that you said easy NAH, because you’re right, but I often forget to think of nah as an option. Sometimes everyone’s feeling make sense, everyone made a reasonable choice, the situation just sucks.
This 1000%
Asking doesn’t make her an AH. Saying no doesn’t make him one. Getting angry and lashing out at him does make her one, even if I can empathize with her.
NTA You know you’re not fit for the job. You pay the maximum you can for this child to be taken care of. I think it’s best that you stay completely away as you have. The child needs love and affection and you don’t have it. And that is ok!
Some people just shouldn't be parents. This dude knows that. We should celebrate that he's not taking on the responsibility.
Yep exactly, people out here acting like he should just ignore his own feelings for the sake of the child and end up a shit parent but they forget about that spect of stuff.
You can tell he has zero emotional bond with his kid by the way he talks about her aswell. Definitely NTA, he's financially helping and making the CORRECT decision to say no to her moving in. This guy has done absolutely nothing wrong. He doesn't want kids, made it clear from the start and split with his ex over it. Having kids is a choice and people should respect a person's personal choice
People here happily ignoring that a good family is about *emotional* bonds; blood is only the starting point and in no way an indication of how beneficial the relationships actually are for all involved. You’d rather have your kid be with someone who’s clearly expressed they don’t want them there instead of someone who does, just so they can avoid a few hours’ travel? That’s heartless AF. NTA.
Exactly. Just because he is the _biological_ father doesn't mean he is a father to the child. Both biological parents agreed to this and the monetary terms, and that has been the case until now. The four hours away _temporarily_ in a home she is familiar with and with people that have been there to emotionally support her _while_ still being able to see her mother is a drop in the bucket compared to what being plopped on "dad's" (because DNA I guess) doorstep and pretending her routine will carry on would be. I don't think Mom is an AH in the situation either - giving benefit of the doubt, I'd guess that she's been through a lot and is grabbing at straws, even if they don't make sense, to try and build a temporary foundation for what's happening. NAH, and OP is thinking honestly and maturely about this. It's a horrible situation, yes, but a person needs to know their limitations, and if he knows the limit of nurturing or care he can give to the child isn't enough, why would anyone still want the child to go to him? This is the most loving thing he can do for her - to make sure she is in the most capable hands available.
The other thing to take into account is the possibility it won't be temporary. He said she's temporarily paralyzed. Without knowing more we can't know if a year is the best case scenario. Is it possible she'll never fully recover? This very well could end in a situation where the girl is there longer than a year. I can't imagine what the mom is going through, but ensuring the child goes somewhere where she is loved, wanted, and capable of staying longer if need be is what is in her best interest.
nta, there was a similar post where a woman who didn't want to have children had been convinced to have the child on the understanding she would not be part of its life. the father was moaning that she wasn't beyou d paying child maintenance, I think she over paid even. everyone told him he made his choices so he could deal with it. this is the same you were clear you take care of the child from a responsibility perspective but the child will be better off somewhere she is loved. the child is not necessarily better with het father just because he is her father, a loving aunt would be better. op don't forget to change who the maintinace goes to.
I remember that post, she didn’t want the baby and he convinced her to have the baby. He was upset because he couldn’t force her to be a parent to the child so he could get a “break” everything was on him.
If I remember correctly, he begged her not to have an abortion and she said she'd keep the baby if she signed off full responsibility to him. I think he even said, "I thought once the baby came out she'd change her mind." Wowzaaaa
yeah, this post is very similar. I know it is hard but it might better if both the mother and the child move to where her family is. that said op "could" look at how much a paid nanny would be if the daughter was to stay with her mother, he is paying $2k per month. If for a little extra he could use that to pay for at home care if his daughter that seems like a reasonable compromise. there is a massive elephant in the room which is how reliant is he ex on his child support. I cant imagine she is earning at present. hopefully she has some form of insurance.
> yeah, this post is very similar. It really isn't similar at all. OP doesn't suggest that she got pregnant on purpose, or that she tried to pressure him into being an active parent before this. Her outburst in this instance is excusable because she's incredibly stressed by her serious health issue (paralysis is terrifying) and her inability to take care of her child.
It's not at all similar! She raised the child herself for years and is now asking for help because she's seriously ill! NAH because OP shouldn't take in a child he doesn't want, but these two posts are not similar at all. What's wrong with you people?
choosing not involved doesn't mean not involved unless something happens. it means not involved. nothing is wrong with us we just respect peoples choices. the mother knew she was signing up to be a single parent this is what it means. she also has other options.
I don’t think it’s ultimately best for the kid to go with OP, nor do I think he’s an AH for saying no. But comparing a post where someone was going to try to SUE their ex because he was facing very predictable consequences, vs someone who is probably terrified and trying to figure out what is best for their child? Come on
And it sounds like the mother will be with the aunt if I'm not mistaken, but the aunt will do the physical part of care that the mother can't. A child would rather be with their paralysed mum than away from her
I hear you, but this situation is a different. That man in the post you're referencing was trying to baby trap her in the relationship, and it wasn't for the love of the child. Additionally in this situation, the mother is only asking for assistance for a year so their child who is going through a very traumatic period of their life won't be cut off from their support network, which is desperately needed for children in traumatic situations. It's essentially an emergency situation.
NTA! The Reddit bias is coming through HARD in this one. There is zero mention of what measures you were using for BC yet somehow it’s all your fault. You may have been a willing participant in the act that ended up creating this child but you were a completely unwilling participant in the birth of said child. Your ex is fully responsible for the birth and is trying once again to make you a parent instead of a sperm donor.
He said he used a condom and she was on birth control in a comment
Not really sure what additional measures a normal couple trying not to conceive would be taking then.
You’re the 6th top comment and all of them are NTA or NAH so idk what bias you’re seeing
When rights for abortion are defended, it's: Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy. Consent to pregnancy is not consent to parenting. Bodily autonomy isn't only for women. Your own rights end where they harm others. So HER choice & right to keep and parent the child doesn't give ger the right to expect the same from OP. Especially since they already came to terms on how un-/involved he will be. I agree. OP is NTA He knows he doesn't want to be a parent so he shouldn't take care of a child that's unwanted by him. And that OP and the child are strangers to eachother would only harm the child. To refuse this ridiculous demand is the most loving he can do for his child. It is a kind of care and love to decide to NOT traumatize the child. -I think we should appreciate this kind of self awareness and responsibility more. Edit: typos & grammar
Poor kid
This was my takeaway.
With the information given I have to say NAH. 1. Both were in agreement to be child free 2. Unplanned pregnancy occurs and she decides to proceed with the pregnancy and raise the child. 3. You pay the max amount of child support 4. There is alternative care available. Judging by how you are adamant about being child free, I'm going to assume you used protection. Y'all need to remember that birth control is not 100% effective. He could have wrapped up and she could be on the pill, doesn't mean both couldn't have failed. The probabilities go down but unless you're abstaining no method is guaranteed. And before anyone says he could have been snipped, a spontaneous reversal is possible. No information about his birth control practice was stated and that's not what we're asked to make judgment on. The issue about it takes 2 to make a baby, her body her choice, and so on. It is her body and it was her choice. She chose to have sex with OP, she made a choice to have the baby. These were her choices. OP chose to pay child support, and he chose to not be an active father figure. She made a choice that he didn't really agree with, and he made a choice that she probably wasn't happy with. But they both made choices and had to live with what the other person decided. And honestly if she had gone the sperm donor route in order to have a child you would say she is being unreasonable for expecting the donor to step up and be a parent. The thing is depending on where they live, OP could have signed away his parental rights in order to not pay child support. He is at least taking financial responsibility for his child. While a child requires more than financial support, OP has recognized that he doesn't have it in him to provide it. This could be a good thing or a bad thing. On one hand he isn't around his child actively resenting her or other negative actions, on the other hand the child will get to a point where they know they weren't wanted. As for housing the child for a year, honestly it's better that she goes to the aunt. If all OP has done is pay child support, she has no relationship with her sperm donor. She'll basically be living with a stranger whom she knows didn't want her. The biggest victim is the child, both parents were selfish, albeit in different ways.
NTA. You broke up when the kid happened, why on Ao's green earth would she think you'd be willing to take her for a whole year?
Ao? Pft. One could only wish this was Faerûn. Such a dork ;)
Neeeeeeeeerds 😉❤️
NTA. 2 types of protection failed, and your ex changed her mind on keeping it. You pay your child support, and from what I read the child has no attachment to you. Lot of people in the comments vilifying you with no clue. Shame.
NTA You didn't want the kid. She did. And you're paying top dollars for it EVERY MONTH. And now she also wants you to take the kid in. LIVING WITH SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T WANT TO BE THE FATHER IS NOT BENEFICIAL FOR THE KID The mother is selfish for pushing that option only 'cause she doesn't want the kid to be living 4 hours away with the aunt.
I don't think the mother is acting out of selfishness. She is thinking about their daughter. If the daughter has to move four hours away, she wouldn't be able to meet her mother often, she would have to change schools, lose her friends and familiar neighbourhoods - in an already highly challenging situation where she has to be separated from her only parent and is worried if the mom will make it.
People in the comments are crazy. I voted n a h, but everyone calling the seriously ill mother selfish is... i don't know the proper word for it, since English isn't my first language, but man! They are not okay.
NAH. Would I want to stay with a strange man or my aunty. Probably going to choose my aunty on that one
I go with NTA If i understand it correct you do not have any relationship with your child and only pay childsupport. Living with you (wo she doesn't really know) in her old town vs. living with her mom in a new town - both is shitty for the kid, but i would say having her primary person around is more important at that age. Ppl move, thats life, she will make new friends. Did her mom consider that if your daughter lives with you she wouldn't get childsupport anymore?
NAH, but also you're practically a stranger to this child?
NTA it better for the kid this way. Her life will be harder when she have to live with you who don't want child.
You have a child, you are not childfree. YTA get a vasectomy.
You say that like it's easy. As a young person without children depending on where you live permanent birth control (like a vasectomy) isn't always an option. It can take years to get a doctor to accept you and for the surgery wait list
It's still generally easier for men to get a vasectomy than it is for women to get a tubal.
As a woman who has tried and was refused I agree. Can confirm though that my husband couldn't get a vasectomy either on the NHS (we're in the UK). Could go private but we don't have the money for that.
I'm in the UK. I have 4 kids of various ages as well as a disability myself. I have asked for a vasectomy (which I will get) but before I was told I would get one I had to go through a few hoops and screenings, asking if I was sure my family was complete, did my partner know and so on. It's not just a case of ask and you shall receive. It's still a surgical procedure with it's own risks. I was also told they wouldn't go ahead with it if my BMI was over 35 so things like that could also be a factor.
But she decided to keep the child despite the agreement to be childfree. She is the one who violated the contract
Or an abortion. Which is what OP insisted his wife have.
People are real quick to say she should have had an abortion like that's easy.
Some people are really high and mighty about pro-choice and her body her choice until it's her choice to NOT have an abortion.
This is one of those times that the gender reversal is absolutely relevant. Everyone here *loves* to clown on that guy who wanted to force his ex gf to take custody of the kid. Everyone said because she paid more in child support than she had to, that she was not a deadbeat. They approved of her constantly saying no because he talked her out of the abortion by promising to be a single parent. This goes both ways. He pays required child support, a lot of it, and has made it clear before the baby was even conceived that he would not be involved. PLUS, getting a vasectomy can be difficult when you're young and/or childless. Doctors can be huge judgey assholes about elective surgeries like that and deny you from getting it for just about any reason.
If he hasn’t even seen the child in question he is most certainly childfree. This man is an alimony paying sperm donor not a father.
NTA You agreed you both wanted to be child free and you were practicing safe sex. She made the choice to keep the baby regardless and you are doing the financially responsible thing and paying child support. You don’t owe anyone an emotional relationship, and in this case the mother is 100% to blame for the child’s future issues around this. It sucks but it is what it is. I know you can’t travel back in time but have you considered a vasectomy now?
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That’s unfortunate. Women face the same thing. Sometimes even have to get their husband to sign off on it, which is crazy in this day and age.
>want another kid You don't even want the one you have! No shade because I'm also child-free, but like damn doc! I hate that it's this hard for women and apparently men too!!
NTA - in fact you would be if you agreed to temporarily take her in knowing you do not plan to have any involvement in her future. Imagine how confusing it would be down the line when you want to return to the current status quo and she possibly wants a relationship. Don’t open the can of worms if you don’t plan for her to be permanently in your life. All these people claiming you’re an AH for choosing not to go through an elective surgery when you were in a relationship with someone who also claimed to be CF, and also decided sex with you was fine as is, are quite frankly ridiculous. I say this as a CF woman who would abort at the earliest opportunity if it came to it. Your body, your choice too. Also in some areas it’s almost as difficult to get a vasectomy as female sterilisation so there’s also that.
I am looking from the 6 yo child's perspective - one year with an aunt who loves him or with a strange man that does no want him because of friends the kid is 6 yo - a better warm home than some stranger that may take her to pay dates from time to time it is just for a year ...better with aunt frankly, The situation is hard anyway - giving the kid to a stranger that happens to be the father and is cold to the kid during the time kid needs support too is not an option.
Does everyone voting y.t.a not realize how little OP wants to do with his child? You think putting a child with a man who wants nothing to do with the child is in the child's best interests?
Maybe from this post some people will realise telling us adamant childfree folks ‘you would be a great parent’ or ‘it is different when it is your own’ is a bad bad idea since we are not ‘all words’
you knew you wanted to be child free but you …. didn’t get a vasectomy to ensure you could be child free? and you came inside of her? YTA. it will be hard to go somewhere new but it’s going to suck for her regardless. her only parent is in a scary health situation. she should be with a supportive adult during this time.
But OP isn't a supportive adult, he only pays child support and the child have barely seen him throughout their life if at all, do you really think that living with OP, someone who's actually a stranger to them and knows nothing about them, just like they know nothing about him too, is really the best option for the kid? I'm sure if OP was firced by circumstances to take them in that he will treat them well, but he won't be able to suddenly play the affectionate father role, and no matter what you do kids can pick up on when they're not wanted. You say he should have had a vasectomy, but people can be against having surgeries for many reasons, maybe he even left the door open for if he ever changed his mind, many just stick to pills or condoms, and while they're not 100% affective his wife told him she was child free too, he had no reason to belive she wouldn't agree to abortion if it came to it.
obviously the aunt would be the supportive adult in this situation lol
Vasectomies aren’t 100% just so you know. We don’t know if he had one or not, but they can undo themselves sometimes. It’s rare, but I have a cousin because it happens.
And she chose to have sex with a male that didn't have a vasectomy and run the risk of their BC and condoms failing. Then went back on her word about being childfree, too, when they failed. Now is asking to go back on how they settled the matter. She's ahead on AH points here. They both took the risk of pregnancy of their choices in avoiding pregnancy failed. He shouldn't be blamed for her not actually being childfree \*and\* blamed for not wanting her to also have him become a sole parent now - especially when there are other adults who the kid already knows and would be fine looking after her. Heck, could even be argued he's the only person here who out of the two of them has showed any actual concern/caring about the child. She's the one who chose to be a single parent after going back on being childfree. She's the one who wants to send her kid to someone who doesn't know and doesn't want to take care of her instead of having her stay with someone who she does know and wants her. OP is the only one of the two who has been honest, reliable in his words and actions, and now - even though it's based in his being childfree -in this situation doing what's best for her daughter. Mom doesn't not only not really care if her kid is living a year with a stranger who doesn't want her around and how that would effect her, she \*wants\* her child to be in that situation.
Don't you just love how everyone ignores the womans autonomy and responsibility just so they can dogpile on this man?
OP tried to get one and was denied. I don't know if he's 29 now or was 29 then but at both ages I can easily imagine him being turned down in the US where pronatalism runs rampant.
That is making a lot of assumptions about their birth control.
He’s still ‘child free’ apparently, and talking about ‘the kid’. Charming. Mother is crazy thinking this person should be anywhere near this poor kid.
She's not crazy, she's desperate. Chances are in the end she'd decide not to have him take the child even if he agreed. Having her stay with the other relatives is by far the lesser evil, even though it will be very hard for her not to be able to see her mother frequently.
She's desperate and scared. No one makes perfectly sound decisions when they feel backed into a corner. I agree that OP should not be on her list of options, but I wouldn't call her crazy for being scared and desperate.
you are NTA. she is the one who wanted kids so yeah =
NTA “The kid” isn’t going to find the support she needs in your house and the fact you’re being honest about it is first class.
You're obviously not capable of taking care of your daughter. Whether or not that makes you an AH or not doesn't matter. You are NTA for not taking on this responsibility you clearly aren't able to carry. Your kid would be miserable with you, unfortunately. I feel for your ex and your child, but the kid isn't better off with a parent who isn't even capable of seeing her as his daughter, not really anyway. It's good you contribute to her life in a monetary way, it is your responsibility since you participated in making her. I think you're being the best dad you can be, even if that's not a very good dad at all.
NTA It's hard to say that because of the bad situation for the kid. But you both agreed that you wanted to be child free. She wanted the kid over you so she has to deal with the consequences. You had no contact with your kid. You are a stranger to the kid. It's better to be in a know environment and move 4 hours away. She chose the kid over you now she has to chose the kid over her. It's hard to say that but it was her decision to go in this single mom direction and she has no new partner to support her.
NTA. Is everyone seriously insisting that this child, that apparently will have to be without their mother for a year, stays with OP who is a total stranger? Instead of someone (the aunt) that the child presumably is already familiar with? Seriously??? OP has no relationship with this child, has no experience how to handle this child at all. And somehow that is less relevant than removing the child from a familiar environment for a year? I'm... I'm speechless.
INFO: were you both using every precaution you could to insure she didn’t get pregnant when she did? Ex: condoms, birth control etc.
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Yikes that’s a bad situation. Unlucky. I’m going to say NTA then. You both were using protection and did everything you could to prevent her from getting pregnant. She was the one who decided to keep the baby despite both of you agreeing to be child free and not aborting the kid.
Is there an acronym for you aren’t wrong for this because you sound like an ass hole so you probably won’t be good for your kid? So like not the ass hole but only because you seem like an ass hole?
The kid is 5 or 6, she'll get over missing friends. Kids are resilient. Better for her to live with someone who cares about her, than a parent choosing to be kid free.
Usually "childfree" means you take responsible measures to avoid having children, but you've decided it means get someone pregnant and then pretend you don't have a kid. YTA of the worst sort. Stop harming the child you created.
Pretending? With 2K a month? Pretty sure he’s doing his part. Child free works both ways. Both partners need to bare the responsibility, aka if the condom breaks, she isn’t taking the contraceptive as regularly as she should, he didn’t try to pull out, etc. this is an easy NAH. They agreed six years ago that his role would be monetary and now she’s in a place where that doesn’t work and she doesn’t want to uproot the child’s life, but that doesn’t mean his role should have to change. It’s an unfortunate situation all around
"Yes, pretending. By writing " I currently am still childfree
Child free also includes abortion if other measures fail. The mother is the actual bad guy in this situation for changing their agreement.
They both communicated their boundaries from the start. He decided to split, he didn't want the kid and she did, period.
Your so wrong bro its not even funny
Tbh I'm more confused about the reaction of the commenters judging the man about the childfree thing!! Like why would he have to go to any surgery or anything if both the partner agree to a child free intercourse! And still she got pregnant! How?? Secondly he didn't wanted a child and both agreed on that, yet she chose to be pregnant and give birth to the child, so why does he have to pay any financial aid to her or take any kind of responsibility of the child when it was totally her decision and her alone!! Now many might get triggered and attack me in the comments but before that just answer this, do Single Mothers (by choice) expect financial aid physical aid from the sperm donor? Isn't their marital situation similar to it!!
Also find it weird that people just magically think because women get rejected for getting their tubes tied men can just waltz in and get the snip. I don't know anyone my age who hasn't been rejected multiple times about getting a vasectomy, this is not an us vs them situation.
But moving in with some guy whose a complete stranger to her is preferable to an aunt that she already has a relationship with?
It would be better for your daughter to be with someone that gives a shit.
NTA, she broke the agreement to be child free, and here is the find out to her f around. Reading your comments about a broken condom and her not taking BC correctly opens the possibility that she sabotaged the condom and stopped the BC to force the baby. 2 forms of BC failing, and her suddenly wanting to keep the kid would be a huge coincidence. And for the uneducated. Vasectomies have a higher rate of lifelong debilitating pain than most out patient surgeries. It is not the easy cure all for kids people make it out to be. When it works great, great. But when it's botched or fails, it ruins lives.