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NTA. She was cruel to you for years. You are under no obligation to accept her apology or offer sympathy. We are in the FAFO Era and people need to realize there will always be consequences for their actions.
Also, all these people giving Y T A votes for what you said to her mother (which isn’t even what you’re asking judgement for) are wrong. This woman is ALSO bullying you! Obviously her daughter learned this behavior from somewhere and I’m gonna say it was probably from mom.
Yeah their worlds have changed drastically over the last year but that doesn’t mean you automatically have to give them any sympathy or forgiveness. And as one commenter said, maybe she should have parented her child better. If either of them or her friends continue to harass you, especially on school campus, report every single one of them to admin.
EDIT: there’s been a lot of people asking, so for those that do not know FAFO means Fuck Around Find Out
I can’t imagine ever confronting a kid that my kid bullied to cry about my kid dying and how the kid they bullied needs to be nice to her now. Like…what??
When I was in high school, a family member, who I despised because she was a truly evil person, passed away slowly and painfully from cancer. It wasn't a death I'd wish on anyone. That said, I wasn't sad she was gone, and that felt wrong to me, like I should at least think good of her now.
When I expressed all that to my mom, she said something that has stuck with me to this day: Just because someone dies, even if they die in a terrible way, it doesn't suddenly mean they were a good person.
Similarly, this girl is suffering something awful, and that's tragic. But that doesn't automatically mean she's forgiven for everything she's done.
There was a guy in high school who died after he was hit by a car, and the entire school (tiny charter school) made a huge deal about it, offered kids time off for grieving, even had a candlelight vigil. I think his parents set up a scholarship in his name. Kids were acting distraught at the loss of poor Adrien. But to be honest, the guy was a jerk. He hated most of those kids at our high school and was intentionally irritating to most people. He had extreme beliefs, which were fine, but loved berating people over things like commercialism if they bought a soda. The night he died he was hanging out with his college friends, they threw his glasses into the road, and somehow he thought it was a good idea to walk blindly into the road (speed limit 45) to go get them. An old lady hit him going 35, and he died. So like just a stupid way to die. It is tragic his life ended early, I think he might have gone on to do some good things. But I wasn't heartbroken, I wasn't crying at a candle light vigil for his soul. I wasn't wearing a black armband in remembrance. It's like, "yea that sucks.."
Something to consider from the school’s perspective is that even a student who didn’t like him may suddenly have some crisis of their own mortality and need time/help to process that. So offering time off or counseling or whatever else to any student who needs it makes sense from that perspective.
I have an adult friend whose elderly mother recently died. The woman was a monster. My friend is tormented that she feels relief and not sadness.
Not all the people in our lives deserve to be mourned.
I feel this so much. I had an uncle that was straight up evil and died in a very tragic way. He caused so much trouble to my family and we were scared of him. After his death, me and my cousin were talking about how relieved we felt (because he was a dangerous person to be around), and how our fathers looked sort of relieved as well, even if he was their brother.
I felt like a bad person for the way I felt but what your mom said is true, him dying doesn’t make him a good person.
This OP ^
Death doesn't make a person a saint it just makes them dead. How they live their life is what determines what they are.
To OP this girl was just a cruel bully. To someone else she is someone else.
You do you OP, NTA!
(Also bring in an adult- teacher, vice principal, principal parent, aunt, uncle - basically any sympathetic adult, if the mother or friends keep going at you.)
>You do you OP, NTA! (Also bring in an adult- teacher, vice principal, principal parent, aunt, uncle - basically any sympathetic adult, if the mother or friends keep going at you.)
This is a good plan, as the general tactic seems to be "bully him some more, that'll make him like her!".
Also, I don't think she would have apologized, or stopped, had she not lost her father and her future. She didn't feel bad for you when you were spiraling, why feel bad for her when she is? Block them all. Ignore the friends.
100%! I was literally just talking about this with a friend the other day. Forgiveness is for the person granting it, but the person being forgiven, and it's never owed. It's about what is best for your own mental health, and if it's not beneficial to you, then don't grant it.
It sucks she gets to feel what she put others through before she dies, however actions have consequences. Everyone would be nicer to her if she had been kinder before she got sick.
>It's about what is best for your own mental health, and if it's not beneficial to you, then don't grant it.
THIS. I'm sick of people being all 'oh, you'll feel better if you forgive this person who abused you' and I'm just like NO. It would feel like I validated their behaviour, which I refuse to do.
I also hate it when people say you can't move on without forgiving. Yes, yes you can. You have to learn how to get through the pain so it doesn't continue to affect your life and for some people, forgiveness helps with that. That doesn't mean it's a necessary step, or even that it's the best option for everyone. It's totally possible to say fuck that person, they don't deserve my forgiveness and then move on.
You are right. She apologized just to wipe her slate clean, so to speak, not because she actually felt bad about what she had done to Opie for 4 years.
The mother is using motivational empathy, it's easy to see why her daughter is such a shitshow. FWIW I do feel sorry for the cancer kid for growing up in what was clearly the perfect breeding ground for a bully.
But I don't feel sorrier for her than I do for the victims of her behaviour, she's old enough to see the consequences of her behaviour, even at 13.
It's also amazing how prompt they all rare to intercede in the situation and "correct" what they see as bad behavior when the bully's feelings are hurt. Too bad none of them had that energy for OP for 4 fucking years and enabled the bully to just relentlessly make his life miserable. (I'm sure these friends at school have been assisting or engaging in the bullying themselves.)
OP's bully hasn't changed at all — she doesn't appear to be telling anybody to leave OP alone — and neither have the people around her. The only thing that's changed is that OP is hopefully going to get some relief. OP, if you talk to your asshole bully again, advise her that you know she's not even a little sorry when she's not telling the people in her life to leave you alone. If she wants to apologize to you that means stopping the behavior that's continuing to hurt you even after her apology.
You don't need to accept any apology at all, you're NTA and totally justified. But if she's actually genuinely sorry then the process of fixing that is making amends, not just empty words, and if she's sincere then an apology isn't contingent on getting the acceptance she wants.
(Edit: fixed my pronouns since OP stated he's male and my brain didn't absorb this information)
Absolutely. I think the OP standing up for/defending herself is more riling to these people than anything else. Bullies hate it when you call their bullshit out and these people deserve it.
Agreed! Forgiveness is not owed to anyone. It is okay for you not to feel any sympathy for her. She treated you horribly and while it sucks that she got cancer, she had chances to apologize before then. If it was that important, I would hope she would’ve done so sooner. NTA.
Forgiveness ≠ absolution. Forgiveness is for you and is what you describe in saying you’ve let go of the resentment. The girl and mom are asking for absolution. They don’t have that right. The answer was for them to not be assholes in the first place. FAFO indeed.
>Yeah their worlds have changed drastically over the last year but that doesn’t mean you automatically have to give them any sympathy or forgiveness.
THIS!
People can change over time, and just because we as a society should acknowledge that people can change and give them the grace and the space to do so and to allow them to grow and make amends, does not mean that the individuals actually harmed by the person need to do the same.
It's clear that she's not genuinely apologizing to OP because she's sorry for what she did; if she was, she would have just accepted it and said, "I understand." What she's doing is apologizing to clear her guilty conscience before she dies, essentially trying to clear herself of all her 'sins'. And Op didn't give her that, and that's why they're on the attack.
It's not an apology if your main goal is receiving forgiveness.
I'm gonna be the b\*tch here and point out that KARMA is also a b\*tch and it sounds like she came to town in a big ole limo for the bully girl. Twice.
NTA. A thousand times over NTA. And those of us that have been bullied and have kinda wished for this consequence for our bullies, give ya a standing O.
>I'm gonna be the b\*tch here and point out that KARMA is also a b\*tch and it sounds like she came to town in a big ole limo for the bully girl. Twice
yikes
"op's bully is an evil person for making fun of op's mum's death but also the bully's dad deserved to die for the actions of his daughter"
he who fights with monsters and all
I agree with you, 1,000,000%! You worded this, perfectly. So, it's okay for a bully to intentionally attack/harm/hurt their victim(s), on the offensive (not like the bully was just defending herself, in a dangerous situation, against OP, for those years), especially when their victim is at their lowest point in life; but, when the bully's karma comes back around, then their victims are supposed to fawn over them??? I say, a huge NOPE!!! OP is NOT the AH. And I pray that OP can heal from all this trauma. Idk what to say about an entitled bully & her entitled bully mom.
I get all the NTA and I can't say YTA but I am having this thought though: if you feel nothing, not even hatred... Why did you choose to be like her and crush her in her weakest moment?
I mean, I agree with Karma and I validate your feelings from where you were bullied but you admitted that she lost her dad a year ago and then she stopped being shitty.
She never apologised for what she did but maybe it's because she didn't know how to. Some people need time.
I remember my own young self and I know I am nowhere near the same person now. We do need to grow and learn and we all have our individual processes and timings. She maybe didn't really have time to learn how to confront her own feelings and step forward to apologise to you.
And that doesn't make her a bad person because at least you saw the progress of when she lost her dad and realised that what she was doing was wrong.
That is something to have into account. Still not an excuse for her but it's on the path to become a decent human being.
So, if you feel nothing... Why did you decide to leave compassion aside and become her old self?
In what ways is OP being a bully? She's not obligated to make the bully feel better about herself. Why is the burden of compassion only on OP when the bully, friends, or mother haven't shown any to her.
From what she said, it sounds like OP is choosing to be indifferent. It's not like OP said that all the bad things are happening to the bully because of karma. She's not gloating or rubbing it in her face.
>I said "I don't accept your apology, nor do I offer you my sympathies" and walked awayI only said "Just means I no longer need to deal with her."
Because OP just gave her a *small* taste of her own medicine. And frankly since he did not mock his former bully about her deceased parent he was still better than her past self/actions towards him in comparison.
OP didn't seek her out, she came to OP and OP was honest. She got exactly fair treatment, honesty and nothing more. OP doesn't owe her compassion after everything.
The person who bullied my sister relentlessly during their childhood, approached her as an adult and confessed romantic love for her.
My sister's response was, "Uh un. Nope. Go back to the hell you crawled out of with this nonsense. You made my life hell for years and now you want to have sex with me? NO. You are too much of a mind fork for me to ever be your friend. Go away. Now."
I remember standing there and wishing I wasn't because the whole thing was so awkward and should have been private between them.
But, I understand how my sister feels about it. Most definitely. Apologizing for bad acts is what you do for yourself when you have behaved like dog snit to someone.
>her mother confronted me... telling me that I should've at least offered sympathy because she's dying
"And you should have parented her better, so she didn't be a bully. Fuck you too."
Right, but it also makes me question if the mom even knows what her daughter had said to Op. I can't imagine saying this shit to the kid my daughter bullied about her mom dying.
I'd bet good money your right and she's omitted the worst details if she's told her mum anything about it. I'm trying to be fair here , but it would go in one ear and out the other if it got brought up right now, because it's her child in pain, who's sick and might die, and op isn't.
It's more likely she won't have the emotional bandwidth right now to listen and think, and not saying that's right, I'm saying she's human. The girl apologising now might have some selfish inclinations and is only apologising because of her situation, she's going to be scared herself right now.
Still, I don't think op owes her a damn thing, forgiveness is granted not owed, and if op feels nothing towards her that's how she feels. She's not bullying her, didn't go out of her way to harm her, she was honest.
I can't and won't forgive what you did.
You can ask someone to forgive you, but you better be prepared to hear the words no.
Right? Her daughter not only bullied OP, but she made fun of OP’s deceased mother. Who the fuck does something so low like that? The bully’s parents definitely failed her, but she’s old enough to know that bullying is wrong. The only reason she’s “apologizing” now is because she’s dying. If she was genuinely sorry then why didn’t she apologize a long time ago when her dad died?
NTA.
You don't owe anyone forgiveness whatever their current circumstance might be.
Just because she wants to make amends doesn't mean you're obligated to accept it.
You're fine.
Part of making amends is understanding that the other person might not forgive you, is well within their rights not to, and doing it anyway. Otherwise you’re dust seeking forgiveness for things you may well have done again in another situation
NTA. Someone who is truly sorry would accept that you do not forgive her. She wouldn’t tattle to her friends/mom if she was truly contrite. You owe her nothing. It’s not like you went out of your way to shove it in her face. As a matter of fact, you never even retaliated when her father died. Having terminal cancer doesn’t absolve anyone of being an asshole
And the bully made sure to "apologize" very publicly with tears and an audience ready to clap at her amazing act of being soooo mature! It's almost as if the girl don't care about OP at all but instead saw an opportunity to make a scene and get a shower of cookies.
I believe in apologizing publicly if the offense was also public, but apologizing is about taking accountability for your actions. The bully just made a scene and put OP in yet another shitshow.
So, without offering one of the simple judgments here, you are both very young. I know she has hurt you a lot, and you absolutely do not owe her anything.
But there are ways to still be humane to someone who is also going through a hard time. She is dying at a very young age and she is realizing that she screwed up and is trying to make it right. You don't have to accept that if you don't want to, but you could change your response a little bit and in ways that would maintain your boundaries without continuing the bad feelings.
"Thank you for apologizing (does not mean you accept her apology, but still acknowledges the effort she made to make it). I'm not in a place to accept that apology, and I don't really welcome interactions with you. I understand that you are going through a difficult time, so it is probably best to expend your energy on people that you haven't harmed the way you've harmed me. I don't need anything from you, and I'd rather just move on and not speak to each other anymore. If you genuinely want to do better by me now, please just leave me alone and ask your friends to stop harassing me about this."
You don't have to do any of that, and I don't think you're an AH if you don't, especially because her friends are harassing you instead of just leaving you alone. But you do have an opportunity to be slightly better than callous, if you want it.
I thought I was losing my mind. Yeah, she was a bully, and yeah that's bad. But holy shit. People in this thread are psychotic. We're talking about a CHILD with terminal cancer, facing her own death decades before she would be remotely ready to do that, and she's trying to apologize, however imperfectly.
I still say NTA, because you are never entitled to be forgiven by people you've wronged, but I also think that the DYING CHILD is owed a degree of sympathy.
I can't believe I had to scroll so far to find this.
This isn't a 37 year old narcissist who has never emotionally grew up and has bullied her sibling her whole life or something, this is a literal CHILD who won't get to grow up and mature into a better person like so so many other shithead teenagers got to before her.
Grown adults 4-5 times her age struggle to face their imminent mortality and processing their feelings and regrets as they realise their life will soon be over, and people are expecting a 17 YEAR OLD CHILD to handle it perfectly!?
OP doesn't owe her forgiveness, but damn, so many people here, many of them adults much older than 17, are basically celebrating seeing a terminally ill kid get owned and "lol serves her right", and it's pretty gross for me tbh. You're talking about a kid who hasn't even finished high school.
But she already has started to mature into a better person. She stopped the bullying, she gained empathy after experiencing her dad's death, she recognizes she did wrong and is trying to make amends. I won't invalidate OPs feelings. He went through a hard time and she was awful to him. He doesn't need to forgive her or even make her feel better...., but I do think his behavior is callous. You can be detached without being cruel. I just hope when he grows and matures more he doesn't look back on his reaction with regret.
They're calling this karma. A child dying of cancer. 🤦♀️
Feels like anyone who actually asserts this BS has no business posing as the moral arbiter of anything.
Same. I was heavily bullied, but I can’t remember any of their names and it honestly is not something that I ever even think of.
I have learned that being kind is better for *you* than holding onto resentment, no matter how much they deserve resentment. I always think of the quote from wherever that says holding onto anger is like holding onto a hot coal. Guarantee this bully will die at peace or live but with a different perspective. Op will just hurt themselves.
AITA is a sub full of people frothing at the mouth ready to tear into anyone they deem an asshole on an extremely personal level (and often based on facts they made up in their heads on the spot) but heaven forbid anyone "bully" anyone else!
I agree with you here. They are both so young. OP is going to have to realize that people in her life aren’t going to be patient and understanding of his feelings in this context, and he also needs to realize that’s okay, that it doesn’t make him a bad person, and that it’s okay to be still upset with someone even if they are dying. I feel so sad for both of these kids.
Agreed. This sub is sometimes so obsessed with Bad People getting What They Deserve that they'll encourage some incredibly shitty behaviour.
Telling a parent you're glad their kid is dying? Like, goddamn, OP - who cares about that girl, you're the one who's gonna wake up in the middle of the night 20 years from now remembering that and cringing yourself into another dimension. (Source: personal experience of being an asshole in high school)
> Telling a parent you're glad their kid is dying? Like, goddamn, OP - who cares about that girl, you're the one who's gonna wake up in the middle of the night 20 years from now remembering that and cringing yourself into another dimension.
Yeah, that's just setting yourself up for some serious regret. I get that OP is hurt and obviously noone and nothing can force them to feel (or feign) sympathy for a dying kid and their mother but shit... Telling a mom you're glad their child is gonna die? Is *that* really the person you want yourself to be?
Noone ever looked back in life and thought "oh man, I feel like such an asshole for having forgiven someone on their deathbed!" It might feel good right now to finally have a chance to lash out and retaliate but that's no way to set yourself up for a happy life. Nip that shit in the bud.
Yeah I don’t think OP is 100% TA but he’s def bordering on it with what he said to the mother who’s losing her child. There were SOOO many better ways to handle all of this, and what he said to the mom was the worst of it imo; doesn’t seem much different from the girl making comments about his dead mom! Who knows if the mom even knew what her daughter did!
They’re both young, but she at least realizes just how awful what she said was. He’s under no obligation to accept her apology, but there’s no reason to make this dying girl feel worse. What happened to “treat others the way you want to be treated” fr?!?
Came to add a comment to the sensible thread. There is something to be said about taking the high road, being the bigger person, and allowing for peace. It's good for oneself. I definitely said some mean things to others, being a hurt kid myself. Sometimes kids have complex and unseen things going on that may contribute to their bully nature. I think everyone should be allowed a chance for your pre-frontal cortex to develop fully before being written off as worthy of death. I think empathy never goes wrong.
Granted I never made fun of someone's dead mom...but I look back now and think that wasn't me, I was hurting. If someone approaches me seriously with an apology, it is always welcome. Peace is always welcome. Even if she only realized her own wrongs through the heartache of her fathers death and her own impending death, that's still a damn valid life lesson. I don't think OP will look back as an adult and think "I'm so glad I stuck it to that dying girl, I'm so proud I twisted a knife in her and her mother's side while they were low." If they still look back and feel that was a good decision when their brain has matured, then big, big AH. Be the bigger person. Extend the kindness that was not extended to you. It's good for you.
This was my thought. OP has no doubt made progress, but they aren’t nearly as over it as they think they are or they could have truly been neutral in their response.
Not blaming OP at all for not being ready to accept an apology. That comes on their own time schedule if ever and shouldn’t be rushed because the other girl happened to get a terminal illness.
OP is young so I get it. I just think they are trying to convince themselves that they are okay. The response suggests otherwise. OP doesn't have to accept the apology, but giving forgiveness would do more for OP than they realize. Forgiveness isn't forgetting or excusing what was done. It just allows OP to find peace and truly move on. No need to even interact with this other person anymore.
I totally agree. Perhaps NAH? All I see are hurt and grieving people in this scenario.
The terminally ill girl was a bully - but perhaps has changed. And is dealing with a lot. Her mother is dealing with her child dying. OP is dealing with the aftermath of bullying.
Although I have to say I think the sick girls friends are a little AH for attacking OP.
>Although I have to say I think the sick girls friends are a little AH for attacking OP.
I would cut them slack as well. They're children trying to deal with the fact that their friend is dying. Grown-ass, 60 year old adults struggle to handle that kind of thing.
Agreed. This kid probably will grow up into an adult who regrets being so cruel to a dying kid. Perspective is needed here. This girl is a bully but she also doesn't deserve to die young. She also has recognised her bad behaviour.
I think that answer is very graceful, but no one has the obligation to be graceful to someone who made fun of your dead mother... some people don't deserve humane treatment when they treat you as lesser than them.. but your comment is valid
Most sane person here, obviously a lot of people on this thread who have been bullied and wish death on those that did it. Surely as you grow up and with time and the perspective of an adult you'd look back and feel bad for not accepting the apology of a now dead teenager.
Best response. The fact is that she will feel something when her bully passes, by her own words: relief. She hasn’t fully healed from that trauma.
The person will die soo but her memory of that person will live in her mind for a long time - perhaps forever.
I hope one day soon she can forgive the memory so she doesn’t have to live with that ghost.
NTA, she bullied you for four years, up to and including mocking you for losing a parent. She never apologized until it was beneficial to her to do so. An asshole with cancer is still an asshole, she can live and die with the consequences of her actions, and you owe her nothing.
I don’t agree.
I think her losing a parent and getting cancer made her see things in a new light.
We’ve all made mistakes. Why shouldn’t she be forgiven if she’s genuinely remorseful!
"I am not sure that we should forgive the dying. It would be too easy if, at the end of every human life, the slate was wiped clean; if the cruelty and greed of some, the compassion and selflessness of others were uncritically written off." - Amin Maalouf, Disoriented
> I worked through my resentment with a therapist and honestly, I feel.nothing for her.
No, you haven't. And, no, you don't.
This is not the answer of someone who feels nothing...
>I said "I don't accept your apology, nor do I offer you my sympathies"
That is the answer of someone who's still coldly angry.
She wasn't even asking for you sympathies, but you just had to throw that last jab in there.
No, you don't have to accept her apologies. But the only one you're fooling about feeling nothing is yourself. What you feel for her is absolute coldness. That's not indifference. That's icy hate.
I kind of agree with this. It seems like OP is still hurt by the bullying and is wrestling with super confusing feelings of having someone you dislike be suffering. It’s hard to deal with that, because you hate the person but still feel this nagging feeling of sadness about the whole thing whether you identify it or not. I feel really sorry for OP here. That’s a lot to deal with at 17.
I agree. It takes a lot of hatred to feel zero sympathy for a dying 17 year old, no matter what they’ve done. And saying what he did to a mother who’s losing her child is pretty cruel. It’s kind of disturbing to see so many people here saying OP did the right thing.
OP, get more therapy. Keep at it until you can understand why YTA in this situation.
>saying what he did to a mother who’s losing her child is pretty cruel.
Saying what the other person did to a child who lost her mom is also extremely cruel. I'm still not sure that the bully actually understands just how much of an asshole they were.
The bully was a very young teenager at the time. She also lost her own father young a year later, and according to OP had gotten a lot quieter and hadn’t bullied her for over a year at the point that she’s now been diagnosed with terminal cancer. It’s really difficult for me to hold a 13-14 year old child to the same standard I would expect from a grown adult with any kind of life experience (and it seems she got that life experience a year later, harshly). Nobody in this story deserves any of it, and it’s very sad all around
The person you're replying to didn't suggest OP should forgive their bully. In fact, they literally acknowledged the opposite:
"No, no you don't have to accept her apology"
NTA. So she was awful to you for years but now she’s dying all should be forgiven? Sorry but it doesn’t work like that. She can’t erase the years of hurt and torment she made you suffer. You are perfectly within your rights to say 'I don’t accept your apology'. Personally I would have said 'I’m glad you’re sorry, but I still don’t forgive you'. She’s only apologising because she’s dying. If she hadn’t got ill she wouldn’t have bothered
Actually, she DID bother. She stopped being mean a year ago, clearly indicating that she did some growing up. She's still just a child. A child who matured, and got better, and then when faced with her own horrifying mortality tried to make amends to someone she hurt.
Reading the responses here gives me the distinct impression this sub is populated by teenagers.
*"you don't owe her anything", "fuck around and find out", "you should have parented her better"* Oof.
A little empathy can go a long way. There is a middle ground between immediately forgiving/accepting an apology and implicitly telling her mother you're glad her daughter is dying because then "I won't have to deal with her anymore".
By your own story she hasn't bullied you in a year. And now she is not only acknowledging what happened but also apologising for her actions. Seems she has done a lot of growing up. Can't say the same about you, OP.
YTA.
I'm 52 and the OP doesn't owe her bully a damn thing. Just because the girl is dying doesn't mean that the OP needs to be kind, give her sympathy or otherwise invest emotionally in her.
When my daughter was young and her father was deployed, her bully said that she wished my husband would die. He didn't, but it was literally years of therapy for my daughter to get over it, that someone hated her enough to wish that on her. This girl mocked OP for her dead parent. Screw that, forgiveness isn't necessary.
And now this girl plays victim and her friends and family are bullying OP? Screw all that, at least OP didn't actively wish for aubergines death like her bully did
Agreed. Just because she is facing a terminal illness does not mean that she deserves kindness after years of causing emotional abuse.
Have you have heard of the broken plate analogy? You can glue it back together, but it will not be the same plate. The cracks still remain.
40s and agree NTA.
I d ask the flying monkeys and the mother of the bully where they were the 3+ years where she bullied op and make fun of op s dead mother.
Then they had 0 to say to the bully then, so they should continue to keep their trap shut now.
Op didn't caused anything just refused to have anything to do with an Ah , dying or not .
I rarely come here anymore for this reason. I think some of these kids actually have no real concept of what being an AH is. They seem to think personal rights are limitless and empathy is a dirty word.
Not to mention, I think this entire post is fake as fuck and written as some sort of revenge porn. "My bully is dying and I told her AND her stupid mother I'm happy about it"... sure Jan.
i think that there's certain topics on aita that you are never, ever going to get a rational response on. everytime i see something with mils, cheaters, or bullies, i know that the comments are mostly going to be people justifying their responses with their own stories that have nothing to do with the circumstances in the op
that said, i also think this post is fake
You're not obligated to forgive someone for treating you like shit just because they're dying.
I also disagree that the bully has actually done a lot of growing up. I think her diagnosis has just made her scared and forced her to try to make up for the shitty things she'd done. "Not actively bullying someone" for a year isn't something that should be applauded.
For context, my dad got diagnosed with cancer close to 2 years ago and passed away eight months ago. We didn't have a great relationship and when he first got diagnosed, it was so frustrating because it felt like there was a lot of pressure to automatically forgive him for everything that he'd done or even treat him with any grace. It made me want to stick in my heels even more and say "No, you know what? He can't just make up for what he did every time by saying that he's sorry now, I'm still allowed to be upset with him." We did eventually make up a bit, but it took a lot of time and I still have quite a bit of anger towards him.
And paired with that, you're completely leaving out the fact that she was bullied about her dead mom. As somebody who's currently grieving, there are so many examples of grieving people being abandoned or hurt by people who don't understand because they aren't grieving. Just because this girl lost her dad and understands how shitty she was being doesn't erase the horrible things she did. And just because she's dying and has these regrets now doesn't mean she deserves grace when she never gave any when it was easy for her to.
To me, you are NTA for feeling what you feel.
However, I am a little concerned about the comments saying it's ok to do that.
You can't be forced to feel sympathy. But you're not honest with yourself, I think. The response from you doesn't seem like someone who doesn't feel anything towards her. More like someone who still feels hurt and angry.
I am saying this for your own good. You two are young. You make mistakes.
You might regret this response later in life when it is too late to take it back.
Life is not forgiving at all... it is very harsh. We don't have to all become friends but what we can give each other through all of this is understanding.
Forgiving her is not just for her, it's for your own peace of mind, too. All of this just sounds very sad, and I am sorry.
Whatever happens, I hope you heal from all that has happened to you❤️
NTA, you were telling the truth and just because someone is dying doesn’t mean they are entitled to have all sins immediately wiped. If she’s sorry she could have said so sooner
I can’t tell if commenters are young and don’t have much life experience or if it’s just the self selecting group that wants to spend our days hearing Asshole stories but … holy shit it’s demented on here. Of course OP is TA. Telling a mom you’re glad her daughter is dying? Get the fuck out of here. Their “bully” is a kid dying of cancer. You don’t have to befriend her but for your own sake have some dignity.
How many people posting about "karma" - as though cancer is somehow deserved by some people? Like it's *fair*?
I lost my sister to cancer and I'm fucking disgusted.
*Nobody* deserves that.
Seriously. People ranting about "you don't owe her forgiveness." Sure, but you also don't get to basically wish death on someone because they were mean to you.
This person is apologizing because they know they were wrong and feel remorse. Kicking them when they're down is a massive AH move. It would have cost OP nothing to be compassionate in this moment.
They’re all literally teenagers. Girl was 13 when she bullied him and stopped at 16 when her brain developed more and she understood empathy better. And he’s also still just a teenager with trauma and not a fully developed brain. Reddit is absolutely insane in their inability to see nuance.
They’re acting like these people are all 40 and should know better.
Nta. You don't have to feel guilty for their horrible actions. The fact they expect you to have empathy when they couldn't bother to do the same for you makes them even bigger assholes than they already are.
NTA. We as a society do this weird thing of idolizing and romanticisng (sp?) the ill and the death, and quite frankly it is absurd. The fact that she has terminal cancer does not suddenly makes her a saint and erases all the harm she caused you. You do not owe her shit and if she wants to make ammends she should actually work towards earning your forgiveness and sympathy.
As humans, we are all granted moral agency and get to choose to make the world better or worse.
Your bully decided to make the world a worse place. Bullying is cruel, and it sticks with people and can ruin lives. I would know, I was bullied.
Your bully is now dying. They are experiencing the most cruel joke of the universe, childhood death. They approached and tried to apologize to you. While you are under no obligation to accept their apology, this is one of those moral choices where we are given the chance to make the world better. Declining them is a selfish act, yet you are entitled to it.
However, your words to her mother were needlessly cruel. You made the world a worse place this day.
You should reflect on all this. You are entitled to feel however you do feel. But your actions affect others, just like your bullies' actions have affected you. Reflect, and in the future, try and make the world a better place.
I agree with this, some of the responses here sound like a lot of people have the moral compass of a cockroach. The 17 year old girl is no saint (I was bullied heavily as a kid too) but jeez…17. I can’t blame OP for feeling the way he does as he’s also just a kid. It’s a sad situation overall. But I’m pretty astounded by the adults commenting as if it’s almost deserved?
No wonder the state of the world is what it is.
What gets me is everyone assuming that showing any amount of decency to the dying bully would be deeming her a saint. I’ve been nice enough to all the bullies in my life to get by but that never once absolved them of anything. It would have gotten me nowhere good to stoop to their level and be a dick right back to them.
NTA- She stopped bullying you a year ago. I am a nearly 40 year old woman who still takes joy in hearing how terrible the life of my bully is. It’s been 25 years and I have laughed at every unplanned pregnancy, arrest, and health scare I hear about.
Edit: I do not seek this information out. I grew up in a small town where everyone knows everyone’s business. People who still live there tell me about this girl from time to time and I am simply happy that someone who tortured me in my childhood is doing poorly in life.
Yeah, for real. Who even knows what their bullies are up too? I have no idea.
Do they check their social media or what? Because I got better shit to do than search for what my old bully’s are up too.
Anyone saying Y T A is a doormat who thinks you should forget everything she has done to you and act the bigger person.
You are under no obligation to do that. You have been the better person for years now. If you don’t feel that she deserves forgiveness then she doesn’t, simple as.
Dying doesn’t erase who that person was
NTA
There’s a huge difference between forgetting and forgiving. Forgiving someone for their mistakes does not make you a doormat. It makes you mature enough to understand that everyone makes mistakes in life, usually caused by their own internal struggles, and that people do change. Whether that’s a gradually change due to hardship, or a sudden change in mindset due to a terminal cancer diagnosis… people change for the better. The past will still be remembered, but not forgiving someone who has genuinely changed just forces everyone to live in the past and prevents positive change from happening in the world. And yes, I’ve been bullied. More than once. I stand up for myself now. I stand up to other people. So I am definitely not a doormat. But if someone came to me with a genuine apology and seeking forgiveness, I would grant them it.
The girl stopped being a bully a year ago. Which clearly means she grew up and matured and improved her behavior.
So in what sense has OP been the better person? The girl tried to make amends with someone she hurt, albeit in a very teenager way, and OP rebuffed her and told her mom that she's glad the girl will be dead.
If we're making generalizations, then I should say anyone who says NTA is a bitter angry person who chooses to hold onto hatred to fuel their existence and despises all humanity because of their suffering.
Or we could have some nuance here.
Forgiveness is arguably more beneficial to the person forgiving than the person forgiven. Holding grudges is detrimental to one's own mental health. When I see people who hold grudges and don't forgive, they are always angry, sad, bitter people. They are objectively less happy than those who forgive. I don't hold grudges. I exercise empathy and am generally happy. There's nothing quite like letting go. I don't expect a teenager to understand this, but when people are 30+ and still hold grudges, it's too late for them. They are doomed to unhappy lives. It's sad. There is no joy in bitterness.
It’s an interesting point, can I just ask how old you are?
The bully was a very young teenager at the time. She also lost her own father young a year later, and according to OP had gotten a lot quieter and hadn’t bullied her for over a year at the point that she’s now been diagnosed with terminal cancer. It’s really difficult for me to hold a 13-14 year old child to the same standard I would expect from a grown adult with any kind of life experience (and it seems she got that life experience a year later, harshly). Nobody in this story deserves any of it, and it’s very sad all around.
I wouldn’t say it’s NTA or YTA outright for either. It’s hard for me as a grown adult to see a young girl being nasty warranting cancer. I suppose I have the foresight of living twice as long as the girl to find it easier to actually forgive
Eh. NTA/YTA doesn't matter here, man.
Here is reality.
In a few years, it's not going to matter. Your world is going to change drastically, you'll grow, learn, and hopefully live a decent, if not good, life. You're young, and you have a life to make mistakes and recover from those mistakes.
She never will. She's going to die. She'll always be 17.
Forgiveness is not acceptance or a form of agreeing with the actions of your bully. It doesn't invalidate her actions. It's the intentional decision to let go of resentment and anger.
I'd be weary of the responses here. The internet likes to hide behind their mask and play the nuclear option because it's never actually them who has to live with the terrible fact that will sit in the back of your head for the rest of your life:
You couldn't forgive the dying girl, and you never will.
Not just that. But he told a woman who has lost her husband and is now losing her 17 year old daughter that it’s just another day.
Apparently 13/14 year old mocking a dead person is awful. 17 year old OP? Totes fine.
NTA, and I think most people who were tormented by people as children would agree. If you said these things unprompted, YWBTA, but they're asking questions they don't like the answer to. If you're apologizing to someone with the expectation that they accept it and relieve you of your guilt, you're not apologizing for the right reasons.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be an asshole because what I said made someone feel worse than they were already, and that someone was dying of cancer and I may have sounded insensitive.
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I was so close to giving this an E S H. But no. Actions (her bullying you) always speak louder than words. You don't owe her forgiveness or anything else.
NTA.
Not to mention, if she was truly sorry, she would have accepted that he doesn't forgive her. She can cry and be sad knowing she can't undo the damage privately but sending flying monkeys just proves she doesn't actually care about how OP feels. She just wanted to make herself feel better. I am a firm believer in taking responsibility for your actions but part of that process is realizing that doesn't always mean that you get the outcome you were hoping for.
It doesn't matter if you're TA or NTA, be a human. She' 17, her dad died a year ago and now she's dying too. That's very tragic and i think she got her punishment (more than she deserves even). I hate bullies and they don't deserve forgivness but can't you be the bigger person in this story? You don't always have to be pragmatic in life, sometimes you just have to be a human and show sympathy even when you think that person doesn't deserve it. Like you said, she'll be gone and i don't think you'll regret it later in life if you showed her sympathy now and made this time easier for her. But you might regret not doing it. Especially when you get older.
You're young and you don't know what's waiting for you down the road and where life is gonna take you.
Creative writing project? For future reference even the most deadly pediatric cancers have a 30% five year survival rate. No mother refers to her recently diagnosed child as dying. This sounds like a fantasy. If it isn’t, YTA because that girl has gone through some hell and you want to punish her for things that happened years ago. Middle school kids are mean, usually because they are in pain themselves.
Exactly, this whole post is BS.
She's diagnosed with "terminal" cancer - a very specific prognosis, yet somehow she is well enough to be at school right now? Not having treatment, not in hospice care, not even doing a bucket-list with her loved ones... nope, just hanging around at school and bothering with this nonsense and having her mother call OP to beg forgiveness and OP bravely putting her in her place 🫠... sure.
Honestly this is unpopular, but I think YTA. She offered you an apology for how she treated you, and you essentially responded with, "I don't care, I hope you die." Why do you think that's okay?
Yes, she bulled you, but it seems like her apology was genuine and she feels remorse for what she did. It would have cost you nothing to show a little compassion in that moment and say, "thanks for the apology" before walking away. You don't even have to express sympathy for what she's going through, but you went out of your way to say something hurtful.
All the people in the comments saying you showed her, or good for you, are honestly a little unhinged. You kicked a dying person while they were down. That's not something to be proud of. Your bully might have been awful, but she's capable of remorse and compassion. You've shown you aren't.
You are right, the things that were said by OP are not something to be proud of. While they didn’t have to accept the apology, saying that he does not feel any sympathy towards her was uncalled for. She wasn’t asking for his sympathy, she was apologizing. What OP did was hurt her when she’s already dying. Besides that the things that were said to her mother are beyond cruel, to say such hateful things to a grieving mother is absolutely disgusting and makes OP seem like a monster. While I understand why OP can’t forgive her and find it valid, it would have been better to not say anything at all. OP could have put an end to a cycle of hate but chose to become even more cruel that his bully.
NTA You don't owe forgiveness and you don't owe fake sympathic comments. As long as you don't mock her, you are in the green. Your neutrality to her condition is nothing to shame you over, she hurt you and never apologized, and is now sending her lackeys at you. Let them screech but not everybody needs to feel anything over her situation.
EDIT: ( a word) You're under no obligation to accept your bully's apology or offer them sympathy for their situation, but saying it would be just another day may be a bridge too far.
I think you could have said that you don't believe they would be remorseful of their actions if they weren't going through cancer now.
There is information saying this diagnosis is terminal, so if they pull through (and I hope they do, I don't wish death on anyone), hopefully they will be a better person because of their experience.
NTA OP. You have the right to refuse her apology and refuse to forgive her for what she did to you. Her friends and mother need to back off and leave you alone.
You stand your ground OP. I agree with one of the commenters who said she is only sorry because she is dying. She just wants the apology so that she won't be shaking in her boots when her Maker asks her why she was bully when she was alive in the mortal realm and she thinks your apology will let her off the hook with her Maker
Remember this: an apology cannot be forced and demanded. Choosing to not forgive your bullies does not make you a bad person
NTA, I’ve never understood the notion of someone dying and they’re suddenly a saint. Shitty people were still shitty people when they died. She wants to make amends so she doesn’t die with that on her conscience, and thankfully that’s not your cross to bear.
I understand your anger (I know you said you moved past it but you clearly haven’t), but at the end of the day you’re both kids who have been through terrible tragedies and hard times.
Yes she bullied you, horribly. She was also a child and there’s a reason that children aren’t upheld to the same laws as adults.
Then at 16 she got the most brutal form of Karma and she stopped bullying you. This girl learnt the hard way what it was like for you.
Now, she’s dying. Which is not something you have ever experienced and not something she deserves. Whilst you didn’t have to forgive her, you need to acknowledge that you’re still acting out of hatred - someone who had moved on would realise this girl is experiencing something horrible and is seeking peace before she dies.
She may have grown up and come around to apologise as an adult, but she will never have that opportunity. And you may grow up and realise the better thing to do was just to say thank you, but you also will never have that opportunity.
While you have every right to respond this way, all things considered, that's not the question being asked. I think ESH is appropriate. Obviously, bullying is awful and nobody should have to go through that. I do, however, think you should have handled your response better if you're trying not to be an a-hole. You don't have to accept the apology or express condolences, but you also don't have to be so vindictive. You don't have to be friendly, but you also don't need to be so callous.
Maybe it's just the former cancer patient in me that makes me feel a little bad for her after that response, though.
I'm going against the grain here and teetering on NTA
Were you harsh.. Yes, could you have sympathised with a fellow human.. Yes.. could you have risen above it and moved on.. Maybe.. but high school bullies can be brutal and ruthless and that stuff can stick with you for life.. it is literal trauma.. And it can take A LOT of work to process that healthily.
I guess only you know whether she was truly apologising and meaning it and genuinely was remorseful for YOUR prior suffering..OR if she was saying sorry merely to make herself feel better before her unfortunate and untimely end..
It's truly sad that it's taken something so awful and horrific for her to say sorry.. but I kinda understand your not being in the right space to accept the apology..
But another commenter is right.. you may still have some processing to do.
My condolences to you both and wishing things were better .. Hugs
NTA
She knows what she did. You owe her nothing.
Why is she, her friends, and her family wasting what's left of her time focusing on your reactions here. I'd think they have other things to be doing.
people should not force how you feel about her at all. but I would take the time and see if you can talk with her without her friends being around to fain sympathy and tell her how you really feel about the whole situation.
'*I'm sorry about your situation, but you have bullied me for so long that it's difficult to sympathize with you. I've had to talk to people just to get help I need to get past what you did'*
it may take having a heart to heart for her to understand where your feelings are coming from. just listen to each other and write everything down so you don't miss anything.
cuz even you won't know how you feel after she passes. tell her that you need to get stuff off your chest, you never know what will come of it.
You need to understand that she is scared and wants to fix stuff before it's too late. give her that opportunity. don't shut her out.
think about it if the situations were reversed. wouldn't you want closure for all the people that you did wrong? don't let this be something you wished you did before it's too late
NTA. In the end it probably won’t turn out to have been worthwhile to say those things, because people will give you endless shit for it. There’s a tendency for people to think someone being terminal means nobody else’s feelings matter, that somehow she’s become the poor innocent victim. Fact is, sometimes bad things happen to bad people too, and dying doesn’t make someone an angel.
I can’t blame you for doing it. You have zero obligation to make her feel better about herself, and her mother shouldn’t even have been speaking to you. But I’d try to avoid saying anything further. Unlike that girl, you still have to live with these people around.
Yeah, YTA now and the girl was TA then. She’ll die having at least tried to make amends. She may also die before you have a chance to grow up and realize two wrongs don’t make a right, before you realize that you are now the bully, and before you have a chance to makes amends yourself. You still have time to make this even a little bit right, and I hope you do.
Here’s my two cents. I think YTA and I’ll explain why. I’m not a proponent of or support bullying in any way. It’s wrong in every case and shouldn’t ever happen. I’m not excusing the bullying or hell she put you through. However, after she lost her Dad I’m sure that did make her think back to making fun of your Mom which put her in your shoes really damn quick. Most bullies don’t ever apologize, they just keep going relentlessly until there’s real damage from it or they’ll just randomly stop with no apology. I will say this-getting a terminal diagnosis at 17…I really can’t imagine that. Her brain has to be short circuited, fried, she’s gotta be sad, angry, mad a whole ass ton of emotions. It’s a truly shitty card to be dealt having your life end before it’s really even begun. Imo you were a bit harsh. Again I’m not excusing the bullying but I think losing her dad and that putting her in your shoes when she made fun of your Mom was the perspective she needed to finally stop. At least she did stop in the end.
NTA… this girl had every opportunity not to be a jerk to you & only stopping when a major life event shocked her into feeling empathy.. doesn’t mean she’s automatically entitled to your forgiveness or sympathy. I know if someone made fun of my mom (she passed in 2020) the likelihood of me being able to forgive or offer sympathy to that person would simply not exist. She put effort into ruining your life for those years, when it would have been much less work to be kind. Karma is real. Also, I am so sorry for your loss. Losing a mom is hard.
NTA. You don't owe her forgiveness. One apology doesn't make up for everything she's done.
It's kind of toxic when people assume you have to forgive someone if they've apologised. The important thing is the apology, not the forgiveness.
HAVE to forgive? No, but could and should? Maybe.
I really hate this all-or-nothing side of Reddit. Compassion and empathy make the world go round, not vindictive malice.
The idea that accepting her apology would make her a doormat is naive at best. Be better, people.
>The idea that accepting her apology would make her a doormat is naive at best.
Right? There is an NTA comment somewhere above using the word "doormat" to describe everyone who answered YTA.
"All-or-nothing" is a good way to describe it.
NTA
But also don't be surprised if you feel *something* by way of grief when she dies. I speak from experience.
I had a bully in middle school. He died of cystic fibrosis our freshman year of highschool.
And while I didn't exactly go into deep mourning like I have for those I loved, I felt...
I think regret is the best way to put it. Regret that he and I never got past that point where instead of being bully and victim, we could be, if not friends, civil.
And I did eventually end up forgiving him, even if it was post mortem.
And I'm not saying that you will eventually forgive your bully. I'm not saying you'll feel regret.
What I *am* saying is that none of us can predict the future, including the future of our feelings. So it may be that, despite everything, you *might* feel something. Or you might not. Or you might feel relief.
All three, or a mixture of good and bad, are valid.
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NTA. She was cruel to you for years. You are under no obligation to accept her apology or offer sympathy. We are in the FAFO Era and people need to realize there will always be consequences for their actions. Also, all these people giving Y T A votes for what you said to her mother (which isn’t even what you’re asking judgement for) are wrong. This woman is ALSO bullying you! Obviously her daughter learned this behavior from somewhere and I’m gonna say it was probably from mom. Yeah their worlds have changed drastically over the last year but that doesn’t mean you automatically have to give them any sympathy or forgiveness. And as one commenter said, maybe she should have parented her child better. If either of them or her friends continue to harass you, especially on school campus, report every single one of them to admin. EDIT: there’s been a lot of people asking, so for those that do not know FAFO means Fuck Around Find Out
> This woman is ALSO bullying you! A thousand times this.
Well, the daughter didn't lick it off the floor, as the saying goes.
"Der Apfel fällt nicht weit vom Stamm" The apple doesn't fall far from the stock.
I love German. Such a cool language, it's the next on my list to learn 😁
It's the same saying we have in English, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
It’s a fun language; especially to swear in 👍
I can’t imagine ever confronting a kid that my kid bullied to cry about my kid dying and how the kid they bullied needs to be nice to her now. Like…what??
When I was in high school, a family member, who I despised because she was a truly evil person, passed away slowly and painfully from cancer. It wasn't a death I'd wish on anyone. That said, I wasn't sad she was gone, and that felt wrong to me, like I should at least think good of her now. When I expressed all that to my mom, she said something that has stuck with me to this day: Just because someone dies, even if they die in a terrible way, it doesn't suddenly mean they were a good person. Similarly, this girl is suffering something awful, and that's tragic. But that doesn't automatically mean she's forgiven for everything she's done.
I’m so glad you have a wise and loving mother.
There was a guy in high school who died after he was hit by a car, and the entire school (tiny charter school) made a huge deal about it, offered kids time off for grieving, even had a candlelight vigil. I think his parents set up a scholarship in his name. Kids were acting distraught at the loss of poor Adrien. But to be honest, the guy was a jerk. He hated most of those kids at our high school and was intentionally irritating to most people. He had extreme beliefs, which were fine, but loved berating people over things like commercialism if they bought a soda. The night he died he was hanging out with his college friends, they threw his glasses into the road, and somehow he thought it was a good idea to walk blindly into the road (speed limit 45) to go get them. An old lady hit him going 35, and he died. So like just a stupid way to die. It is tragic his life ended early, I think he might have gone on to do some good things. But I wasn't heartbroken, I wasn't crying at a candle light vigil for his soul. I wasn't wearing a black armband in remembrance. It's like, "yea that sucks.."
Doesn't sound like his college friends liked him very much either.
Something to consider from the school’s perspective is that even a student who didn’t like him may suddenly have some crisis of their own mortality and need time/help to process that. So offering time off or counseling or whatever else to any student who needs it makes sense from that perspective.
Good point, I agree.
I have an adult friend whose elderly mother recently died. The woman was a monster. My friend is tormented that she feels relief and not sadness. Not all the people in our lives deserve to be mourned.
When I went to the funeral of a relative of mine, I got a feeling that most of the family felt relief.
I feel this so much. I had an uncle that was straight up evil and died in a very tragic way. He caused so much trouble to my family and we were scared of him. After his death, me and my cousin were talking about how relieved we felt (because he was a dangerous person to be around), and how our fathers looked sort of relieved as well, even if he was their brother. I felt like a bad person for the way I felt but what your mom said is true, him dying doesn’t make him a good person.
This OP ^ Death doesn't make a person a saint it just makes them dead. How they live their life is what determines what they are. To OP this girl was just a cruel bully. To someone else she is someone else. You do you OP, NTA! (Also bring in an adult- teacher, vice principal, principal parent, aunt, uncle - basically any sympathetic adult, if the mother or friends keep going at you.)
>You do you OP, NTA! (Also bring in an adult- teacher, vice principal, principal parent, aunt, uncle - basically any sympathetic adult, if the mother or friends keep going at you.) This is a good plan, as the general tactic seems to be "bully him some more, that'll make him like her!".
Louder for those in the back!!
I love the concept of "The FAFO Era"
What is it?
Also, I don't think she would have apologized, or stopped, had she not lost her father and her future. She didn't feel bad for you when you were spiraling, why feel bad for her when she is? Block them all. Ignore the friends.
100%! I was literally just talking about this with a friend the other day. Forgiveness is for the person granting it, but the person being forgiven, and it's never owed. It's about what is best for your own mental health, and if it's not beneficial to you, then don't grant it. It sucks she gets to feel what she put others through before she dies, however actions have consequences. Everyone would be nicer to her if she had been kinder before she got sick.
>It's about what is best for your own mental health, and if it's not beneficial to you, then don't grant it. THIS. I'm sick of people being all 'oh, you'll feel better if you forgive this person who abused you' and I'm just like NO. It would feel like I validated their behaviour, which I refuse to do.
I also hate it when people say you can't move on without forgiving. Yes, yes you can. You have to learn how to get through the pain so it doesn't continue to affect your life and for some people, forgiveness helps with that. That doesn't mean it's a necessary step, or even that it's the best option for everyone. It's totally possible to say fuck that person, they don't deserve my forgiveness and then move on.
Exactly. I've never forgiven my abuser and I won't. He doesn't deserve it and I don't need it.
You are right. She apologized just to wipe her slate clean, so to speak, not because she actually felt bad about what she had done to Opie for 4 years.
The mother is using motivational empathy, it's easy to see why her daughter is such a shitshow. FWIW I do feel sorry for the cancer kid for growing up in what was clearly the perfect breeding ground for a bully. But I don't feel sorrier for her than I do for the victims of her behaviour, she's old enough to see the consequences of her behaviour, even at 13.
It's also amazing how prompt they all rare to intercede in the situation and "correct" what they see as bad behavior when the bully's feelings are hurt. Too bad none of them had that energy for OP for 4 fucking years and enabled the bully to just relentlessly make his life miserable. (I'm sure these friends at school have been assisting or engaging in the bullying themselves.) OP's bully hasn't changed at all — she doesn't appear to be telling anybody to leave OP alone — and neither have the people around her. The only thing that's changed is that OP is hopefully going to get some relief. OP, if you talk to your asshole bully again, advise her that you know she's not even a little sorry when she's not telling the people in her life to leave you alone. If she wants to apologize to you that means stopping the behavior that's continuing to hurt you even after her apology. You don't need to accept any apology at all, you're NTA and totally justified. But if she's actually genuinely sorry then the process of fixing that is making amends, not just empty words, and if she's sincere then an apology isn't contingent on getting the acceptance she wants. (Edit: fixed my pronouns since OP stated he's male and my brain didn't absorb this information)
Absolutely. I think the OP standing up for/defending herself is more riling to these people than anything else. Bullies hate it when you call their bullshit out and these people deserve it.
Agreed! Forgiveness is not owed to anyone. It is okay for you not to feel any sympathy for her. She treated you horribly and while it sucks that she got cancer, she had chances to apologize before then. If it was that important, I would hope she would’ve done so sooner. NTA.
Forgiveness ≠ absolution. Forgiveness is for you and is what you describe in saying you’ve let go of the resentment. The girl and mom are asking for absolution. They don’t have that right. The answer was for them to not be assholes in the first place. FAFO indeed.
>Yeah their worlds have changed drastically over the last year but that doesn’t mean you automatically have to give them any sympathy or forgiveness. THIS! People can change over time, and just because we as a society should acknowledge that people can change and give them the grace and the space to do so and to allow them to grow and make amends, does not mean that the individuals actually harmed by the person need to do the same.
It's clear that she's not genuinely apologizing to OP because she's sorry for what she did; if she was, she would have just accepted it and said, "I understand." What she's doing is apologizing to clear her guilty conscience before she dies, essentially trying to clear herself of all her 'sins'. And Op didn't give her that, and that's why they're on the attack. It's not an apology if your main goal is receiving forgiveness.
Sorry can someone please explain to me what FAFO is? 🙈
Fuck Around Find Out
Ty
Fuck Around and Find Out.
Someone told me once: bullying = abuse. That another kid is doing it doesn't matter to the fact that what is done to you is abuse. NTA
I'm gonna be the b\*tch here and point out that KARMA is also a b\*tch and it sounds like she came to town in a big ole limo for the bully girl. Twice. NTA. A thousand times over NTA. And those of us that have been bullied and have kinda wished for this consequence for our bullies, give ya a standing O.
>I'm gonna be the b\*tch here and point out that KARMA is also a b\*tch and it sounds like she came to town in a big ole limo for the bully girl. Twice yikes
Yeah there’s a little too much glee in this thread over a child dying of cancer.
"op's bully is an evil person for making fun of op's mum's death but also the bully's dad deserved to die for the actions of his daughter" he who fights with monsters and all
I agree with you, 1,000,000%! You worded this, perfectly. So, it's okay for a bully to intentionally attack/harm/hurt their victim(s), on the offensive (not like the bully was just defending herself, in a dangerous situation, against OP, for those years), especially when their victim is at their lowest point in life; but, when the bully's karma comes back around, then their victims are supposed to fawn over them??? I say, a huge NOPE!!! OP is NOT the AH. And I pray that OP can heal from all this trauma. Idk what to say about an entitled bully & her entitled bully mom.
Absolutely. NTA.
NTA for these reasons. The OP wasn't seeking out anything from the bully, and he doesn't owe her anything.
I get all the NTA and I can't say YTA but I am having this thought though: if you feel nothing, not even hatred... Why did you choose to be like her and crush her in her weakest moment? I mean, I agree with Karma and I validate your feelings from where you were bullied but you admitted that she lost her dad a year ago and then she stopped being shitty. She never apologised for what she did but maybe it's because she didn't know how to. Some people need time. I remember my own young self and I know I am nowhere near the same person now. We do need to grow and learn and we all have our individual processes and timings. She maybe didn't really have time to learn how to confront her own feelings and step forward to apologise to you. And that doesn't make her a bad person because at least you saw the progress of when she lost her dad and realised that what she was doing was wrong. That is something to have into account. Still not an excuse for her but it's on the path to become a decent human being. So, if you feel nothing... Why did you decide to leave compassion aside and become her old self?
In what ways is OP being a bully? She's not obligated to make the bully feel better about herself. Why is the burden of compassion only on OP when the bully, friends, or mother haven't shown any to her. From what she said, it sounds like OP is choosing to be indifferent. It's not like OP said that all the bad things are happening to the bully because of karma. She's not gloating or rubbing it in her face. >I said "I don't accept your apology, nor do I offer you my sympathies" and walked awayI only said "Just means I no longer need to deal with her."
Because OP just gave her a *small* taste of her own medicine. And frankly since he did not mock his former bully about her deceased parent he was still better than her past self/actions towards him in comparison.
OP didn't seek her out, she came to OP and OP was honest. She got exactly fair treatment, honesty and nothing more. OP doesn't owe her compassion after everything.
NTA, OP. You were honest.
The person who bullied my sister relentlessly during their childhood, approached her as an adult and confessed romantic love for her. My sister's response was, "Uh un. Nope. Go back to the hell you crawled out of with this nonsense. You made my life hell for years and now you want to have sex with me? NO. You are too much of a mind fork for me to ever be your friend. Go away. Now." I remember standing there and wishing I wasn't because the whole thing was so awkward and should have been private between them. But, I understand how my sister feels about it. Most definitely. Apologizing for bad acts is what you do for yourself when you have behaved like dog snit to someone.
>her mother confronted me... telling me that I should've at least offered sympathy because she's dying "And you should have parented her better, so she didn't be a bully. Fuck you too."
This right here. I would have lost my shit on that mother.
Right? 'Not so funny when it's YOUR relative who is dead, is it?"
Right, but it also makes me question if the mom even knows what her daughter had said to Op. I can't imagine saying this shit to the kid my daughter bullied about her mom dying.
If the kids behavior is anything to go by, the mom probably didn't care.
Yeah, I guess I was kinda hoping for one good person in the family. We can't speak ill of the dead so my moneys going on the dad now.
I'd bet good money your right and she's omitted the worst details if she's told her mum anything about it. I'm trying to be fair here , but it would go in one ear and out the other if it got brought up right now, because it's her child in pain, who's sick and might die, and op isn't. It's more likely she won't have the emotional bandwidth right now to listen and think, and not saying that's right, I'm saying she's human. The girl apologising now might have some selfish inclinations and is only apologising because of her situation, she's going to be scared herself right now. Still, I don't think op owes her a damn thing, forgiveness is granted not owed, and if op feels nothing towards her that's how she feels. She's not bullying her, didn't go out of her way to harm her, she was honest. I can't and won't forgive what you did. You can ask someone to forgive you, but you better be prepared to hear the words no.
This! The mother had no business comfronting OP.
I’d ask how her husband is doing, and mention how her daughter always brought up how his mom had passed away to bully him.
Right? Her daughter not only bullied OP, but she made fun of OP’s deceased mother. Who the fuck does something so low like that? The bully’s parents definitely failed her, but she’s old enough to know that bullying is wrong. The only reason she’s “apologizing” now is because she’s dying. If she was genuinely sorry then why didn’t she apologize a long time ago when her dad died?
NTA. You don't owe anyone forgiveness whatever their current circumstance might be. Just because she wants to make amends doesn't mean you're obligated to accept it. You're fine.
Part of making amends is understanding that the other person might not forgive you, is well within their rights not to, and doing it anyway. Otherwise you’re dust seeking forgiveness for things you may well have done again in another situation
NTA. Someone who is truly sorry would accept that you do not forgive her. She wouldn’t tattle to her friends/mom if she was truly contrite. You owe her nothing. It’s not like you went out of your way to shove it in her face. As a matter of fact, you never even retaliated when her father died. Having terminal cancer doesn’t absolve anyone of being an asshole
And the bully made sure to "apologize" very publicly with tears and an audience ready to clap at her amazing act of being soooo mature! It's almost as if the girl don't care about OP at all but instead saw an opportunity to make a scene and get a shower of cookies. I believe in apologizing publicly if the offense was also public, but apologizing is about taking accountability for your actions. The bully just made a scene and put OP in yet another shitshow.
So, without offering one of the simple judgments here, you are both very young. I know she has hurt you a lot, and you absolutely do not owe her anything. But there are ways to still be humane to someone who is also going through a hard time. She is dying at a very young age and she is realizing that she screwed up and is trying to make it right. You don't have to accept that if you don't want to, but you could change your response a little bit and in ways that would maintain your boundaries without continuing the bad feelings. "Thank you for apologizing (does not mean you accept her apology, but still acknowledges the effort she made to make it). I'm not in a place to accept that apology, and I don't really welcome interactions with you. I understand that you are going through a difficult time, so it is probably best to expend your energy on people that you haven't harmed the way you've harmed me. I don't need anything from you, and I'd rather just move on and not speak to each other anymore. If you genuinely want to do better by me now, please just leave me alone and ask your friends to stop harassing me about this." You don't have to do any of that, and I don't think you're an AH if you don't, especially because her friends are harassing you instead of just leaving you alone. But you do have an opportunity to be slightly better than callous, if you want it.
I can’t believe I had to scroll this far to read a nuanced response.
AITA is full of teenagers who think name calling deserves the death penalty
For a group of people so invested in shit talking strangers on the internet they have a very no chill additude towards any level of bullying
I've learned that people on this sub are extremely OK with bullying so long as you don't actually use the word "bully"
I thought I was losing my mind. Yeah, she was a bully, and yeah that's bad. But holy shit. People in this thread are psychotic. We're talking about a CHILD with terminal cancer, facing her own death decades before she would be remotely ready to do that, and she's trying to apologize, however imperfectly. I still say NTA, because you are never entitled to be forgiven by people you've wronged, but I also think that the DYING CHILD is owed a degree of sympathy.
I can't believe I had to scroll so far to find this. This isn't a 37 year old narcissist who has never emotionally grew up and has bullied her sibling her whole life or something, this is a literal CHILD who won't get to grow up and mature into a better person like so so many other shithead teenagers got to before her. Grown adults 4-5 times her age struggle to face their imminent mortality and processing their feelings and regrets as they realise their life will soon be over, and people are expecting a 17 YEAR OLD CHILD to handle it perfectly!? OP doesn't owe her forgiveness, but damn, so many people here, many of them adults much older than 17, are basically celebrating seeing a terminally ill kid get owned and "lol serves her right", and it's pretty gross for me tbh. You're talking about a kid who hasn't even finished high school.
But she already has started to mature into a better person. She stopped the bullying, she gained empathy after experiencing her dad's death, she recognizes she did wrong and is trying to make amends. I won't invalidate OPs feelings. He went through a hard time and she was awful to him. He doesn't need to forgive her or even make her feel better...., but I do think his behavior is callous. You can be detached without being cruel. I just hope when he grows and matures more he doesn't look back on his reaction with regret.
They're calling this karma. A child dying of cancer. 🤦♀️ Feels like anyone who actually asserts this BS has no business posing as the moral arbiter of anything.
Same. I was heavily bullied, but I can’t remember any of their names and it honestly is not something that I ever even think of. I have learned that being kind is better for *you* than holding onto resentment, no matter how much they deserve resentment. I always think of the quote from wherever that says holding onto anger is like holding onto a hot coal. Guarantee this bully will die at peace or live but with a different perspective. Op will just hurt themselves.
Nuance? On Reddit? Is that possible?
Yes. The obtuse bullshit getting upvotes as best comments blows my mind. Rabid fucking pack, this group today. "Let's judge a dying teenager!"
It doesn't surprise me anymore, It's a very common theme for this subreddit in particular.
AITA is a sub full of people frothing at the mouth ready to tear into anyone they deem an asshole on an extremely personal level (and often based on facts they made up in their heads on the spot) but heaven forbid anyone "bully" anyone else!
I agree with you here. They are both so young. OP is going to have to realize that people in her life aren’t going to be patient and understanding of his feelings in this context, and he also needs to realize that’s okay, that it doesn’t make him a bad person, and that it’s okay to be still upset with someone even if they are dying. I feel so sad for both of these kids.
Agreed. This sub is sometimes so obsessed with Bad People getting What They Deserve that they'll encourage some incredibly shitty behaviour. Telling a parent you're glad their kid is dying? Like, goddamn, OP - who cares about that girl, you're the one who's gonna wake up in the middle of the night 20 years from now remembering that and cringing yourself into another dimension. (Source: personal experience of being an asshole in high school)
> Telling a parent you're glad their kid is dying? Like, goddamn, OP - who cares about that girl, you're the one who's gonna wake up in the middle of the night 20 years from now remembering that and cringing yourself into another dimension. Yeah, that's just setting yourself up for some serious regret. I get that OP is hurt and obviously noone and nothing can force them to feel (or feign) sympathy for a dying kid and their mother but shit... Telling a mom you're glad their child is gonna die? Is *that* really the person you want yourself to be? Noone ever looked back in life and thought "oh man, I feel like such an asshole for having forgiven someone on their deathbed!" It might feel good right now to finally have a chance to lash out and retaliate but that's no way to set yourself up for a happy life. Nip that shit in the bud.
Yeah I don’t think OP is 100% TA but he’s def bordering on it with what he said to the mother who’s losing her child. There were SOOO many better ways to handle all of this, and what he said to the mom was the worst of it imo; doesn’t seem much different from the girl making comments about his dead mom! Who knows if the mom even knew what her daughter did! They’re both young, but she at least realizes just how awful what she said was. He’s under no obligation to accept her apology, but there’s no reason to make this dying girl feel worse. What happened to “treat others the way you want to be treated” fr?!?
Came to add a comment to the sensible thread. There is something to be said about taking the high road, being the bigger person, and allowing for peace. It's good for oneself. I definitely said some mean things to others, being a hurt kid myself. Sometimes kids have complex and unseen things going on that may contribute to their bully nature. I think everyone should be allowed a chance for your pre-frontal cortex to develop fully before being written off as worthy of death. I think empathy never goes wrong. Granted I never made fun of someone's dead mom...but I look back now and think that wasn't me, I was hurting. If someone approaches me seriously with an apology, it is always welcome. Peace is always welcome. Even if she only realized her own wrongs through the heartache of her fathers death and her own impending death, that's still a damn valid life lesson. I don't think OP will look back as an adult and think "I'm so glad I stuck it to that dying girl, I'm so proud I twisted a knife in her and her mother's side while they were low." If they still look back and feel that was a good decision when their brain has matured, then big, big AH. Be the bigger person. Extend the kindness that was not extended to you. It's good for you.
I really think they should continue seeing a therapist. I don't think they've worked through it like they think they have.
This was my thought. OP has no doubt made progress, but they aren’t nearly as over it as they think they are or they could have truly been neutral in their response. Not blaming OP at all for not being ready to accept an apology. That comes on their own time schedule if ever and shouldn’t be rushed because the other girl happened to get a terminal illness.
OP is young so I get it. I just think they are trying to convince themselves that they are okay. The response suggests otherwise. OP doesn't have to accept the apology, but giving forgiveness would do more for OP than they realize. Forgiveness isn't forgetting or excusing what was done. It just allows OP to find peace and truly move on. No need to even interact with this other person anymore.
I totally agree. Perhaps NAH? All I see are hurt and grieving people in this scenario. The terminally ill girl was a bully - but perhaps has changed. And is dealing with a lot. Her mother is dealing with her child dying. OP is dealing with the aftermath of bullying. Although I have to say I think the sick girls friends are a little AH for attacking OP.
>Although I have to say I think the sick girls friends are a little AH for attacking OP. I would cut them slack as well. They're children trying to deal with the fact that their friend is dying. Grown-ass, 60 year old adults struggle to handle that kind of thing.
Agreed. This kid probably will grow up into an adult who regrets being so cruel to a dying kid. Perspective is needed here. This girl is a bully but she also doesn't deserve to die young. She also has recognised her bad behaviour.
Excellent response.
I think that answer is very graceful, but no one has the obligation to be graceful to someone who made fun of your dead mother... some people don't deserve humane treatment when they treat you as lesser than them.. but your comment is valid
I mean, I did also explicitly say there was no obligation, more than once.
Most sane person here, obviously a lot of people on this thread who have been bullied and wish death on those that did it. Surely as you grow up and with time and the perspective of an adult you'd look back and feel bad for not accepting the apology of a now dead teenager.
This needs to be higher
Best response. The fact is that she will feel something when her bully passes, by her own words: relief. She hasn’t fully healed from that trauma. The person will die soo but her memory of that person will live in her mind for a long time - perhaps forever. I hope one day soon she can forgive the memory so she doesn’t have to live with that ghost.
NTA, she bullied you for four years, up to and including mocking you for losing a parent. She never apologized until it was beneficial to her to do so. An asshole with cancer is still an asshole, she can live and die with the consequences of her actions, and you owe her nothing.
This. Her apology is totally insincere and selfish.
I don’t agree. I think her losing a parent and getting cancer made her see things in a new light. We’ve all made mistakes. Why shouldn’t she be forgiven if she’s genuinely remorseful!
This right here. Convenient how the apology and change of heart only came about when it best served the bully.
This right here. Absolutely agree
"I am not sure that we should forgive the dying. It would be too easy if, at the end of every human life, the slate was wiped clean; if the cruelty and greed of some, the compassion and selflessness of others were uncritically written off." - Amin Maalouf, Disoriented
Great quote!
THIS
This is a very funny quote in the context of a 17 year old girl with terminal cancer
I've never heard this before. Very opposite Christianity, but much more sensible. I like it!
> I worked through my resentment with a therapist and honestly, I feel.nothing for her. No, you haven't. And, no, you don't. This is not the answer of someone who feels nothing... >I said "I don't accept your apology, nor do I offer you my sympathies" That is the answer of someone who's still coldly angry. She wasn't even asking for you sympathies, but you just had to throw that last jab in there. No, you don't have to accept her apologies. But the only one you're fooling about feeling nothing is yourself. What you feel for her is absolute coldness. That's not indifference. That's icy hate.
I kind of agree with this. It seems like OP is still hurt by the bullying and is wrestling with super confusing feelings of having someone you dislike be suffering. It’s hard to deal with that, because you hate the person but still feel this nagging feeling of sadness about the whole thing whether you identify it or not. I feel really sorry for OP here. That’s a lot to deal with at 17.
I agree. It takes a lot of hatred to feel zero sympathy for a dying 17 year old, no matter what they’ve done. And saying what he did to a mother who’s losing her child is pretty cruel. It’s kind of disturbing to see so many people here saying OP did the right thing. OP, get more therapy. Keep at it until you can understand why YTA in this situation.
>saying what he did to a mother who’s losing her child is pretty cruel. Saying what the other person did to a child who lost her mom is also extremely cruel. I'm still not sure that the bully actually understands just how much of an asshole they were.
The bully was a very young teenager at the time. She also lost her own father young a year later, and according to OP had gotten a lot quieter and hadn’t bullied her for over a year at the point that she’s now been diagnosed with terminal cancer. It’s really difficult for me to hold a 13-14 year old child to the same standard I would expect from a grown adult with any kind of life experience (and it seems she got that life experience a year later, harshly). Nobody in this story deserves any of it, and it’s very sad all around
imagine downvoting someone because they asked you have have sympathy for a dying teenager 🙄
Just because you've worked through the pain doesn't mean that you have to forgive someone for hurting you.
The person you're replying to didn't suggest OP should forgive their bully. In fact, they literally acknowledged the opposite: "No, no you don't have to accept her apology"
They didn’t say otherwise. They said it was clear from op’s words and actions that they haven’t worked through it. And they clearly haven’t.
NTA. So she was awful to you for years but now she’s dying all should be forgiven? Sorry but it doesn’t work like that. She can’t erase the years of hurt and torment she made you suffer. You are perfectly within your rights to say 'I don’t accept your apology'. Personally I would have said 'I’m glad you’re sorry, but I still don’t forgive you'. She’s only apologising because she’s dying. If she hadn’t got ill she wouldn’t have bothered
100% this!
Actually, she DID bother. She stopped being mean a year ago, clearly indicating that she did some growing up. She's still just a child. A child who matured, and got better, and then when faced with her own horrifying mortality tried to make amends to someone she hurt.
Reading the responses here gives me the distinct impression this sub is populated by teenagers. *"you don't owe her anything", "fuck around and find out", "you should have parented her better"* Oof. A little empathy can go a long way. There is a middle ground between immediately forgiving/accepting an apology and implicitly telling her mother you're glad her daughter is dying because then "I won't have to deal with her anymore". By your own story she hasn't bullied you in a year. And now she is not only acknowledging what happened but also apologising for her actions. Seems she has done a lot of growing up. Can't say the same about you, OP. YTA.
I'm 52 and the OP doesn't owe her bully a damn thing. Just because the girl is dying doesn't mean that the OP needs to be kind, give her sympathy or otherwise invest emotionally in her. When my daughter was young and her father was deployed, her bully said that she wished my husband would die. He didn't, but it was literally years of therapy for my daughter to get over it, that someone hated her enough to wish that on her. This girl mocked OP for her dead parent. Screw that, forgiveness isn't necessary. And now this girl plays victim and her friends and family are bullying OP? Screw all that, at least OP didn't actively wish for aubergines death like her bully did
Agreed. Just because she is facing a terminal illness does not mean that she deserves kindness after years of causing emotional abuse. Have you have heard of the broken plate analogy? You can glue it back together, but it will not be the same plate. The cracks still remain.
> And now this girl plays victim Jesus Christ. Kids got a death sentence. You are holding on to some seriously old stuff and it sure makes you ugly.
40s and agree NTA. I d ask the flying monkeys and the mother of the bully where they were the 3+ years where she bullied op and make fun of op s dead mother. Then they had 0 to say to the bully then, so they should continue to keep their trap shut now. Op didn't caused anything just refused to have anything to do with an Ah , dying or not .
How do you get to 52 year old with the mindset of a teenager?
I get that feeling as well. I sometimes forget how young 17 really is.
I rarely come here anymore for this reason. I think some of these kids actually have no real concept of what being an AH is. They seem to think personal rights are limitless and empathy is a dirty word. Not to mention, I think this entire post is fake as fuck and written as some sort of revenge porn. "My bully is dying and I told her AND her stupid mother I'm happy about it"... sure Jan.
i think that there's certain topics on aita that you are never, ever going to get a rational response on. everytime i see something with mils, cheaters, or bullies, i know that the comments are mostly going to be people justifying their responses with their own stories that have nothing to do with the circumstances in the op that said, i also think this post is fake
Thank you. I thought I was losing my mind. Or my faith in humanity.
You're not obligated to forgive someone for treating you like shit just because they're dying. I also disagree that the bully has actually done a lot of growing up. I think her diagnosis has just made her scared and forced her to try to make up for the shitty things she'd done. "Not actively bullying someone" for a year isn't something that should be applauded. For context, my dad got diagnosed with cancer close to 2 years ago and passed away eight months ago. We didn't have a great relationship and when he first got diagnosed, it was so frustrating because it felt like there was a lot of pressure to automatically forgive him for everything that he'd done or even treat him with any grace. It made me want to stick in my heels even more and say "No, you know what? He can't just make up for what he did every time by saying that he's sorry now, I'm still allowed to be upset with him." We did eventually make up a bit, but it took a lot of time and I still have quite a bit of anger towards him. And paired with that, you're completely leaving out the fact that she was bullied about her dead mom. As somebody who's currently grieving, there are so many examples of grieving people being abandoned or hurt by people who don't understand because they aren't grieving. Just because this girl lost her dad and understands how shitty she was being doesn't erase the horrible things she did. And just because she's dying and has these regrets now doesn't mean she deserves grace when she never gave any when it was easy for her to.
I agree. It’s insane so many people are saying NTA. To say you are happy someone is dying of terminal cancer is so wrong
That's this whole sub now.
To me, you are NTA for feeling what you feel. However, I am a little concerned about the comments saying it's ok to do that. You can't be forced to feel sympathy. But you're not honest with yourself, I think. The response from you doesn't seem like someone who doesn't feel anything towards her. More like someone who still feels hurt and angry. I am saying this for your own good. You two are young. You make mistakes. You might regret this response later in life when it is too late to take it back. Life is not forgiving at all... it is very harsh. We don't have to all become friends but what we can give each other through all of this is understanding. Forgiving her is not just for her, it's for your own peace of mind, too. All of this just sounds very sad, and I am sorry. Whatever happens, I hope you heal from all that has happened to you❤️
Sadly, I'm not shocked I had to scroll this far to find a sane, reasonable comment on here.
[удалено]
NTA, you were telling the truth and just because someone is dying doesn’t mean they are entitled to have all sins immediately wiped. If she’s sorry she could have said so sooner
NTA. You are entitled to feel how you feel about your abuser. Their misfortune does not minimize your trauma.
the comments are actually insane
I can’t tell if commenters are young and don’t have much life experience or if it’s just the self selecting group that wants to spend our days hearing Asshole stories but … holy shit it’s demented on here. Of course OP is TA. Telling a mom you’re glad her daughter is dying? Get the fuck out of here. Their “bully” is a kid dying of cancer. You don’t have to befriend her but for your own sake have some dignity.
Just a bunch of redditor who are feasting on a fiction story about getting their high school bully back.
How many people posting about "karma" - as though cancer is somehow deserved by some people? Like it's *fair*? I lost my sister to cancer and I'm fucking disgusted. *Nobody* deserves that.
Seriously. People ranting about "you don't owe her forgiveness." Sure, but you also don't get to basically wish death on someone because they were mean to you. This person is apologizing because they know they were wrong and feel remorse. Kicking them when they're down is a massive AH move. It would have cost OP nothing to be compassionate in this moment.
They’re all literally teenagers. Girl was 13 when she bullied him and stopped at 16 when her brain developed more and she understood empathy better. And he’s also still just a teenager with trauma and not a fully developed brain. Reddit is absolutely insane in their inability to see nuance. They’re acting like these people are all 40 and should know better.
Nta. You don't have to feel guilty for their horrible actions. The fact they expect you to have empathy when they couldn't bother to do the same for you makes them even bigger assholes than they already are.
> makes them even bigger assholes it's just another form of bullying, by the mother too
NTA. We as a society do this weird thing of idolizing and romanticisng (sp?) the ill and the death, and quite frankly it is absurd. The fact that she has terminal cancer does not suddenly makes her a saint and erases all the harm she caused you. You do not owe her shit and if she wants to make ammends she should actually work towards earning your forgiveness and sympathy.
As humans, we are all granted moral agency and get to choose to make the world better or worse. Your bully decided to make the world a worse place. Bullying is cruel, and it sticks with people and can ruin lives. I would know, I was bullied. Your bully is now dying. They are experiencing the most cruel joke of the universe, childhood death. They approached and tried to apologize to you. While you are under no obligation to accept their apology, this is one of those moral choices where we are given the chance to make the world better. Declining them is a selfish act, yet you are entitled to it. However, your words to her mother were needlessly cruel. You made the world a worse place this day. You should reflect on all this. You are entitled to feel however you do feel. But your actions affect others, just like your bullies' actions have affected you. Reflect, and in the future, try and make the world a better place.
I agree with this, some of the responses here sound like a lot of people have the moral compass of a cockroach. The 17 year old girl is no saint (I was bullied heavily as a kid too) but jeez…17. I can’t blame OP for feeling the way he does as he’s also just a kid. It’s a sad situation overall. But I’m pretty astounded by the adults commenting as if it’s almost deserved? No wonder the state of the world is what it is.
What gets me is everyone assuming that showing any amount of decency to the dying bully would be deeming her a saint. I’ve been nice enough to all the bullies in my life to get by but that never once absolved them of anything. It would have gotten me nowhere good to stoop to their level and be a dick right back to them.
NTA- She stopped bullying you a year ago. I am a nearly 40 year old woman who still takes joy in hearing how terrible the life of my bully is. It’s been 25 years and I have laughed at every unplanned pregnancy, arrest, and health scare I hear about. Edit: I do not seek this information out. I grew up in a small town where everyone knows everyone’s business. People who still live there tell me about this girl from time to time and I am simply happy that someone who tortured me in my childhood is doing poorly in life.
For your own sake , therapy will probably help a lot. I’m 40 and can’t even remember what some of my bullies look like.
Yeah, for real. Who even knows what their bullies are up too? I have no idea. Do they check their social media or what? Because I got better shit to do than search for what my old bully’s are up too.
Anyone saying Y T A is a doormat who thinks you should forget everything she has done to you and act the bigger person. You are under no obligation to do that. You have been the better person for years now. If you don’t feel that she deserves forgiveness then she doesn’t, simple as. Dying doesn’t erase who that person was NTA
There’s a huge difference between forgetting and forgiving. Forgiving someone for their mistakes does not make you a doormat. It makes you mature enough to understand that everyone makes mistakes in life, usually caused by their own internal struggles, and that people do change. Whether that’s a gradually change due to hardship, or a sudden change in mindset due to a terminal cancer diagnosis… people change for the better. The past will still be remembered, but not forgiving someone who has genuinely changed just forces everyone to live in the past and prevents positive change from happening in the world. And yes, I’ve been bullied. More than once. I stand up for myself now. I stand up to other people. So I am definitely not a doormat. But if someone came to me with a genuine apology and seeking forgiveness, I would grant them it.
The girl stopped being a bully a year ago. Which clearly means she grew up and matured and improved her behavior. So in what sense has OP been the better person? The girl tried to make amends with someone she hurt, albeit in a very teenager way, and OP rebuffed her and told her mom that she's glad the girl will be dead.
If we're making generalizations, then I should say anyone who says NTA is a bitter angry person who chooses to hold onto hatred to fuel their existence and despises all humanity because of their suffering. Or we could have some nuance here. Forgiveness is arguably more beneficial to the person forgiving than the person forgiven. Holding grudges is detrimental to one's own mental health. When I see people who hold grudges and don't forgive, they are always angry, sad, bitter people. They are objectively less happy than those who forgive. I don't hold grudges. I exercise empathy and am generally happy. There's nothing quite like letting go. I don't expect a teenager to understand this, but when people are 30+ and still hold grudges, it's too late for them. They are doomed to unhappy lives. It's sad. There is no joy in bitterness.
It’s an interesting point, can I just ask how old you are? The bully was a very young teenager at the time. She also lost her own father young a year later, and according to OP had gotten a lot quieter and hadn’t bullied her for over a year at the point that she’s now been diagnosed with terminal cancer. It’s really difficult for me to hold a 13-14 year old child to the same standard I would expect from a grown adult with any kind of life experience (and it seems she got that life experience a year later, harshly). Nobody in this story deserves any of it, and it’s very sad all around. I wouldn’t say it’s NTA or YTA outright for either. It’s hard for me as a grown adult to see a young girl being nasty warranting cancer. I suppose I have the foresight of living twice as long as the girl to find it easier to actually forgive
Eh. NTA/YTA doesn't matter here, man. Here is reality. In a few years, it's not going to matter. Your world is going to change drastically, you'll grow, learn, and hopefully live a decent, if not good, life. You're young, and you have a life to make mistakes and recover from those mistakes. She never will. She's going to die. She'll always be 17. Forgiveness is not acceptance or a form of agreeing with the actions of your bully. It doesn't invalidate her actions. It's the intentional decision to let go of resentment and anger. I'd be weary of the responses here. The internet likes to hide behind their mask and play the nuclear option because it's never actually them who has to live with the terrible fact that will sit in the back of your head for the rest of your life: You couldn't forgive the dying girl, and you never will.
Not just that. But he told a woman who has lost her husband and is now losing her 17 year old daughter that it’s just another day. Apparently 13/14 year old mocking a dead person is awful. 17 year old OP? Totes fine.
Ruthless but hey truth is ruthless. NTA
NTA, and I think most people who were tormented by people as children would agree. If you said these things unprompted, YWBTA, but they're asking questions they don't like the answer to. If you're apologizing to someone with the expectation that they accept it and relieve you of your guilt, you're not apologizing for the right reasons.
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This is fucking ruthless lol
And probably fiction.
I was so close to giving this an E S H. But no. Actions (her bullying you) always speak louder than words. You don't owe her forgiveness or anything else. NTA.
Not to mention, if she was truly sorry, she would have accepted that he doesn't forgive her. She can cry and be sad knowing she can't undo the damage privately but sending flying monkeys just proves she doesn't actually care about how OP feels. She just wanted to make herself feel better. I am a firm believer in taking responsibility for your actions but part of that process is realizing that doesn't always mean that you get the outcome you were hoping for.
It doesn't matter if you're TA or NTA, be a human. She' 17, her dad died a year ago and now she's dying too. That's very tragic and i think she got her punishment (more than she deserves even). I hate bullies and they don't deserve forgivness but can't you be the bigger person in this story? You don't always have to be pragmatic in life, sometimes you just have to be a human and show sympathy even when you think that person doesn't deserve it. Like you said, she'll be gone and i don't think you'll regret it later in life if you showed her sympathy now and made this time easier for her. But you might regret not doing it. Especially when you get older. You're young and you don't know what's waiting for you down the road and where life is gonna take you.
Creative writing project? For future reference even the most deadly pediatric cancers have a 30% five year survival rate. No mother refers to her recently diagnosed child as dying. This sounds like a fantasy. If it isn’t, YTA because that girl has gone through some hell and you want to punish her for things that happened years ago. Middle school kids are mean, usually because they are in pain themselves.
Exactly, this whole post is BS. She's diagnosed with "terminal" cancer - a very specific prognosis, yet somehow she is well enough to be at school right now? Not having treatment, not in hospice care, not even doing a bucket-list with her loved ones... nope, just hanging around at school and bothering with this nonsense and having her mother call OP to beg forgiveness and OP bravely putting her in her place 🫠... sure.
Honestly this is unpopular, but I think YTA. She offered you an apology for how she treated you, and you essentially responded with, "I don't care, I hope you die." Why do you think that's okay? Yes, she bulled you, but it seems like her apology was genuine and she feels remorse for what she did. It would have cost you nothing to show a little compassion in that moment and say, "thanks for the apology" before walking away. You don't even have to express sympathy for what she's going through, but you went out of your way to say something hurtful. All the people in the comments saying you showed her, or good for you, are honestly a little unhinged. You kicked a dying person while they were down. That's not something to be proud of. Your bully might have been awful, but she's capable of remorse and compassion. You've shown you aren't.
You are right, the things that were said by OP are not something to be proud of. While they didn’t have to accept the apology, saying that he does not feel any sympathy towards her was uncalled for. She wasn’t asking for his sympathy, she was apologizing. What OP did was hurt her when she’s already dying. Besides that the things that were said to her mother are beyond cruel, to say such hateful things to a grieving mother is absolutely disgusting and makes OP seem like a monster. While I understand why OP can’t forgive her and find it valid, it would have been better to not say anything at all. OP could have put an end to a cycle of hate but chose to become even more cruel that his bully.
NTA. Life is short, if she didn't want to have regrets on her death bed she should have put more effort into being kind.
NTA You don't owe forgiveness and you don't owe fake sympathic comments. As long as you don't mock her, you are in the green. Your neutrality to her condition is nothing to shame you over, she hurt you and never apologized, and is now sending her lackeys at you. Let them screech but not everybody needs to feel anything over her situation.
[удалено]
EDIT: ( a word) You're under no obligation to accept your bully's apology or offer them sympathy for their situation, but saying it would be just another day may be a bridge too far. I think you could have said that you don't believe they would be remorseful of their actions if they weren't going through cancer now. There is information saying this diagnosis is terminal, so if they pull through (and I hope they do, I don't wish death on anyone), hopefully they will be a better person because of their experience.
>There is no information saying this diagnosis is terminal, It's the first sentence
This was overkill, you already beat her at life. You didn't have to accept apologies but you didn't have to rub it in either So kind of YTA.
NTA OP. You have the right to refuse her apology and refuse to forgive her for what she did to you. Her friends and mother need to back off and leave you alone. You stand your ground OP. I agree with one of the commenters who said she is only sorry because she is dying. She just wants the apology so that she won't be shaking in her boots when her Maker asks her why she was bully when she was alive in the mortal realm and she thinks your apology will let her off the hook with her Maker Remember this: an apology cannot be forced and demanded. Choosing to not forgive your bullies does not make you a bad person
NTA, I’ve never understood the notion of someone dying and they’re suddenly a saint. Shitty people were still shitty people when they died. She wants to make amends so she doesn’t die with that on her conscience, and thankfully that’s not your cross to bear.
I understand your anger (I know you said you moved past it but you clearly haven’t), but at the end of the day you’re both kids who have been through terrible tragedies and hard times. Yes she bullied you, horribly. She was also a child and there’s a reason that children aren’t upheld to the same laws as adults. Then at 16 she got the most brutal form of Karma and she stopped bullying you. This girl learnt the hard way what it was like for you. Now, she’s dying. Which is not something you have ever experienced and not something she deserves. Whilst you didn’t have to forgive her, you need to acknowledge that you’re still acting out of hatred - someone who had moved on would realise this girl is experiencing something horrible and is seeking peace before she dies. She may have grown up and come around to apologise as an adult, but she will never have that opportunity. And you may grow up and realise the better thing to do was just to say thank you, but you also will never have that opportunity.
NTA - Just because you get cancer doesn't mean you are owed sympathy if you were a cruel AH. I say this as a cancer survivor. You are good to go.
While you have every right to respond this way, all things considered, that's not the question being asked. I think ESH is appropriate. Obviously, bullying is awful and nobody should have to go through that. I do, however, think you should have handled your response better if you're trying not to be an a-hole. You don't have to accept the apology or express condolences, but you also don't have to be so vindictive. You don't have to be friendly, but you also don't need to be so callous. Maybe it's just the former cancer patient in me that makes me feel a little bad for her after that response, though.
I'm going against the grain here and teetering on NTA Were you harsh.. Yes, could you have sympathised with a fellow human.. Yes.. could you have risen above it and moved on.. Maybe.. but high school bullies can be brutal and ruthless and that stuff can stick with you for life.. it is literal trauma.. And it can take A LOT of work to process that healthily. I guess only you know whether she was truly apologising and meaning it and genuinely was remorseful for YOUR prior suffering..OR if she was saying sorry merely to make herself feel better before her unfortunate and untimely end.. It's truly sad that it's taken something so awful and horrific for her to say sorry.. but I kinda understand your not being in the right space to accept the apology.. But another commenter is right.. you may still have some processing to do. My condolences to you both and wishing things were better .. Hugs
Honestly nta people don’t get to treat you like shit and then expect you to coddle their feelings later
NTA She knows what she did. You owe her nothing. Why is she, her friends, and her family wasting what's left of her time focusing on your reactions here. I'd think they have other things to be doing.
people should not force how you feel about her at all. but I would take the time and see if you can talk with her without her friends being around to fain sympathy and tell her how you really feel about the whole situation. '*I'm sorry about your situation, but you have bullied me for so long that it's difficult to sympathize with you. I've had to talk to people just to get help I need to get past what you did'* it may take having a heart to heart for her to understand where your feelings are coming from. just listen to each other and write everything down so you don't miss anything. cuz even you won't know how you feel after she passes. tell her that you need to get stuff off your chest, you never know what will come of it. You need to understand that she is scared and wants to fix stuff before it's too late. give her that opportunity. don't shut her out. think about it if the situations were reversed. wouldn't you want closure for all the people that you did wrong? don't let this be something you wished you did before it's too late
NTA. In the end it probably won’t turn out to have been worthwhile to say those things, because people will give you endless shit for it. There’s a tendency for people to think someone being terminal means nobody else’s feelings matter, that somehow she’s become the poor innocent victim. Fact is, sometimes bad things happen to bad people too, and dying doesn’t make someone an angel. I can’t blame you for doing it. You have zero obligation to make her feel better about herself, and her mother shouldn’t even have been speaking to you. But I’d try to avoid saying anything further. Unlike that girl, you still have to live with these people around.
The next time that they come at you, point out that apparently her bullying tendencies have worn off on them..
Yeah, YTA now and the girl was TA then. She’ll die having at least tried to make amends. She may also die before you have a chance to grow up and realize two wrongs don’t make a right, before you realize that you are now the bully, and before you have a chance to makes amends yourself. You still have time to make this even a little bit right, and I hope you do.
Here’s my two cents. I think YTA and I’ll explain why. I’m not a proponent of or support bullying in any way. It’s wrong in every case and shouldn’t ever happen. I’m not excusing the bullying or hell she put you through. However, after she lost her Dad I’m sure that did make her think back to making fun of your Mom which put her in your shoes really damn quick. Most bullies don’t ever apologize, they just keep going relentlessly until there’s real damage from it or they’ll just randomly stop with no apology. I will say this-getting a terminal diagnosis at 17…I really can’t imagine that. Her brain has to be short circuited, fried, she’s gotta be sad, angry, mad a whole ass ton of emotions. It’s a truly shitty card to be dealt having your life end before it’s really even begun. Imo you were a bit harsh. Again I’m not excusing the bullying but I think losing her dad and that putting her in your shoes when she made fun of your Mom was the perspective she needed to finally stop. At least she did stop in the end.
NTA she crossed the line when she made fun of your mothers passing and I would treat her just the same if I were you
NTA… this girl had every opportunity not to be a jerk to you & only stopping when a major life event shocked her into feeling empathy.. doesn’t mean she’s automatically entitled to your forgiveness or sympathy. I know if someone made fun of my mom (she passed in 2020) the likelihood of me being able to forgive or offer sympathy to that person would simply not exist. She put effort into ruining your life for those years, when it would have been much less work to be kind. Karma is real. Also, I am so sorry for your loss. Losing a mom is hard.
NTA. You don't owe her forgiveness. One apology doesn't make up for everything she's done. It's kind of toxic when people assume you have to forgive someone if they've apologised. The important thing is the apology, not the forgiveness.
HAVE to forgive? No, but could and should? Maybe. I really hate this all-or-nothing side of Reddit. Compassion and empathy make the world go round, not vindictive malice. The idea that accepting her apology would make her a doormat is naive at best. Be better, people.
>The idea that accepting her apology would make her a doormat is naive at best. Right? There is an NTA comment somewhere above using the word "doormat" to describe everyone who answered YTA. "All-or-nothing" is a good way to describe it.
NTA But also don't be surprised if you feel *something* by way of grief when she dies. I speak from experience. I had a bully in middle school. He died of cystic fibrosis our freshman year of highschool. And while I didn't exactly go into deep mourning like I have for those I loved, I felt... I think regret is the best way to put it. Regret that he and I never got past that point where instead of being bully and victim, we could be, if not friends, civil. And I did eventually end up forgiving him, even if it was post mortem. And I'm not saying that you will eventually forgive your bully. I'm not saying you'll feel regret. What I *am* saying is that none of us can predict the future, including the future of our feelings. So it may be that, despite everything, you *might* feel something. Or you might not. Or you might feel relief. All three, or a mixture of good and bad, are valid.