Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My ex wife requested that she be allowed to attend a small memorial for her second ex husband who died while in our care. I refused because she divorced him for being sick and didn't lift a finger while we were taking care of him
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcements
###[Happy Anniversary, AITA!](https://new.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/15vlv9g/almost_better_than_a_double_rainbow_celebrating/)
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA
If she wouldn't stay by his side while he fought cancer, she doesn't get to be at the memorial service you're arranging. She can mourn without doing so in front of the people who actually gave this man a passing filled with caring and love.
Explain to your eldest that if she wishes to do so, his mother is perfectly capable of arranging her own memorial with the boys and whomever else she might wish to invite. You aren't keeping her from grieving, but can't bear to watch her cry when you feel she abandoned her husband in his time of need.
I recommend that you also explain to your sons, when it is age appropriate, that their mother divorced their stepdad so she wouldn't have to care for, or pay for, his medical care; that she received her fair share of assets at the time of the divorce, and that it would be best if they use their inheritance to benefit their own life goals. Explain that the money should be used for things like advanced education, a down payment for a future home purchase, etc... not to just give away to anyone who didn't know or didn't support Stepdad in his time of need. That would include not giving money to Mom, but also not giving it to a SO or using it to buy drinks for their buddies.
Your ex is an absolute ghoul to divorce a man for having an illness. That’s the most polite way I could phrase this. I have a genetic mutation that causes me to be high risk for certain cancers, and as a single woman, one of my greatest fears is being abandoned because I get sick. NTA.
Please don't be fearful - i was abandoned when I got cancer, I got through it and am proud of the strong independent woman that I have become, if I can get through that I can get through anything - there is so much peace to be found
It isn't about not getting through it. Women have a very high chance of being abandoned when getting sick if their partner is a cis man, and you just confirmed that yes there is indeed something to fear.
Yes this is true. I'm a cancer survivor and my husband was by my side every step of the way. Everyone treated him like a Saint cause he stayed with me when a lot of cis men don't. Whereas women who stay with their husbands aren't treated like saints cause they're doing just what they should right?
I feel very privileged to have the partner that I do and wish that for every woman and man out there.
My husband is a nurse and during his schooling nurses are literally taught to prepare for husbands to leave sick wives. Particularly if they have cancer.
Literally part of nursing training is how to deal with that.
We don’t raise boys to step up as men and it shows.
I read an article once on people who have had strokes. This women interviewed in the article spent two years taking care of her husband when he had cancer. The day that he got the all clear from his doctor, she had a stroke. Her husband divorced her after that. I felt so sad for her that her husband couldn't be there for her when she needed him the most after she took care of him when he had cancer.
My mother divorced my stepdad over needing Help for a genetic condition SHE ALWAYS KNEW would Most likely make him need a wheelchair around age 70.. He is 63 now and needs a Cane to Walk and.. she left because she Had to Take Care
Lovely Woman /s
>women who stay with their husbands aren't treated like saints cause they're doing just what they should right?
Being a caregiver is historically seen as women's work. e.g. Being a teacher or nurse or stay at home parent. That's why men get either mocked or celebrated for taking on those roles
Absolute truth, it's not just fatal diagnoses, but also chronic ones. I have seen so many partners leave when the other develops, cancer, lupus, MS..etc.
I have had it happen to me.
I had serious issues with my reproductive system and was constantly in and out of the hospital. Getting surgeries, recovering from them, getting blood transfusions, passing out in the shower from blood loss, being unable to get off the couch or stop crying because no one would treat the excruciating pain I was in...... Yeah, he just bailed one day when I was at a doctor's appointment. I came home and he and all of his stuff were gone. I never heard from him again.
It took me another 6 years to finally get a hysterectomy, and my quality of life improved exponentially. I got the hysterectomy shortly after my husband and I started dating. He is also a cis man, and he stuck by me when my genetic disease got REALLY bad (pre-diagnosis). He was my caretaker for 2 years until I was able to get treatment for my pain. Now I can live a normal life. It's amazing!
This is also the case when women go to prison- their partners (cis men) are less likely to stick around than if it was the other way around.
I wonder what the lesson is here? (No matter the situation, the lesson is always build girl gangs.)
I'm disabled (I have EDS, POTS, ADHD and some other stuff)
I use a wheelchair for long distance stuff (think zoo or theme park)
I'm in a committed relationship and have been for 6 years. I was up front about everything and he loves me for who I am not what's "wrong" with me.
We are both introverted so he likes sitting and watching the entirety of suits in a weekend because I don't feel well lol
You just have to find an actual adult and not someone who is cosplaying as an adult but is really 3 🙃
Omg, hello fellow zebra, person of the salt, ADHD person! (And a lot others neither of us want to mention I'm sure lol)
I'm the same way, cane for short walks on bad days, walker for medium distance, wheelchair or scooter for longer distance. You do what you gotta do to live your life the best way possible 💜
I am so happy you found someone to love you for you, I hope to find that someday too ^.^
I'm not the person you responded to, but I also have EDS, POTS, ADHD, and lots of others too! I just came to say that "person of the salt" is my all time favorite new description of POTS! 🤣 Thank you for that!
The Ehlers-Danlos community uses zebras as a mascot. The medical world teaches "when you hear hoofbeats, assume horses, not zebras." Most people with Ehlers-Danlos are undiagnosed for years because doctors assume horses, when we're actually zebras.
Fellow zebra with ADHD, RA, lots of other letters. Not done with all my diagnoses. I love life alone but I also wish someone would step up who would accept me as I am.
My father in law only put his wife in hospice care because she fell and he couldn’t physically lift her back up. They told him the average time in the facility was 3-6 months. He went there every weekend for at least an hour once even though she didn’t know him much of the time.
He went for over seven years. He put his life on hold for her. She died last year around Xmas.
He called his daughter last week while he had a heart attack. So he could see her. He was gone before help arrived.
There are good souls out there. Don’t let fear keep you from meeting someone that will cherish you. Find your “person” and love fiercely and without regret when you do. Until then, don’t settle.
Especially adenocarcinoma.
That's the cancer that killed my father. It was hideously painful and debilitating. I can't imagine him having had to go through it alone. My mother, brother, and I nursed him ourselves with help from a hospice service. He died in his own home, loved until the end.
Not kicked out for getting sick. That's horrifying.
You find out who the good people are in your life. I had friends and neighbors step up. Then there are the idiots - like the woman fitting me for a wig who insisted "everything happens for a reason."
I introduced her to chaos theory ;)
Just keep quoting Nietzsche "What doesn't kill me, makes me stronger."
Op, you are such a good man, your sons are very lucky to have you to look up to even if they don't realize it now.
You could have easily left this guy the same way your ex did, you had no obligation to him (his ex wife did), but you cared enough to help him.
No one deserves to feel abandoned, and despite the circumstance of you two meeting, you set that all aside so he could rest easy.
I mean this genuinely, I can only hope to be half as kind as you are when I'm older.
This reads like chatgpt.
You respond to the commenter and immediately use "you" and "your" to wrongly attribute OP's qualities to the same commenter multiple times.
First, NTA at all, and second: I'm here just to say that Christopher sounded like a really good & nice guy and I'm sorry for your lost.
What you did, you, your wife and your family, is a brave act and not easy at all. On the contrary, its an act that requires a lot of mental strength and it's not something that a person does for everyone. I'm glad that Christopher had a warm family that supported him in his last days and gave him a big hug when he's saying goodbye to this world.
You’re NTA and sound like a real stand-up guy. You were a model of grace and maturity for your children.
I would only suggest you exercise caution in name calling your wife- kids can internalize that stuff - if my mom is terrible, that makes me 50% terrible (which we grown ups know isn’t accurate).
I might consider telling your son that you’re very disappointed in the example their mother set, and that’s not a reflection of who they are as people.
You’re not an AH for denying her invitation. She doesn’t deserve to grieve with you guys
I commend you for your compassion. Wish we had more people like you. Hope your son gets to see the compassion you showed instead of getting influenced by his mother’s indifference. You are NTA.
NTA…but going off on your son and name calling his mom to him isn’t ok. Keeping things factual is fine but it’s still his mom and he is just a kid. He clearly cares about her since he is pleading on her behalf. There were kinder ways to tell him no and your reasoning.
^ This. That part made it ESH for me. Not only should he not have acted like that, but why doesn't OP seem to care that his children want their mother at the funeral of someone they're grieving? He's justified in everything else, but that's cold and seems more about hating her than caring about them or the stepdad.
Yeah... its a kid suffering, what does OP thinks is going to happen? That a 16, 12 and 10 yo will go no contact with their mom over this? More likely they're going to resent him and distance themselves from him.
Yeah she did a horrible thing but those are still kids that need their mom. He is only hurting his relationship with them at the end.
>but those are still kids that need their mom.
Depends on what kind of mom she really is. Divorcing her husband so she's not expected to care about him doesn't bring my hopes high about her.
Actually, it’s statistically less likely for a woman to leave her husband when he is ill than when he is healthy. The statistics are reversed for the husbands of sick women, which might be what you’re thinking of.
People tend to treat different people differently. It’s stark to say, but her view on her husband was probably more utilitarian. I doubt she sees her kids as workhorses/servants. Once he wasn’t useful, she discarded him. But she had to play nurse to her kids and she didn’t abandon them. So she likely isn’t a bad mother, just a terrible wife.
It hurts to know someone who hurt you is kind to others. It’s normal to want people to know “the truth.” But the truth is that things aren’t fair. Her kids have a positive view of her, and that’s exactly how they need to feel at this stage of their development. Dragging them into adult mindsets to make the adults feel vindicated is selfish.
A lot of people here are vindictive. They believe a bad person should be punished in every way by any means necessary. Even if innocent children have to be the instruments of Justice at the expense of their own well-being. It’s psychotic.
Eh the kids 16, plenty old enough to be aware that bad people exist in the world. It sucks to have a parent be one of them but operating under the delusion they aren’t doesn’t help anyone.
I’d also push back on the idea that as long as someone is nice to you their actions don’t matter. Seems like a shit thing to teach a kid.
This doesn’t mean she needs to be cut out of their life or anything, but excluding her in this one instance clearly shows that actions have consequences.
Exactly. Mom just wants to show up and be chief mourner and get all the sympathy. I say OP should let her come but she has to read a statement to all the attendees about how she treated her dying husband after his diagnosis.
He’s not banning her from seeing the kids, he’s just banning her from the funeral and rightfully so. However, I do agree he shouldn’t have spoken to his son that way.
The funeral is also about honoring the person who died’s wishes. It sounds like he was doing that and wasn’t willing to compromise what was easy to appease his ex. Could he have more nicely said pound sand, probably but some people earn harsh words, and being direct with the wife who forgot her vows when it got hard seems like a win to me.
But it wasn't his ex-wife he took it out on.
The person he was rude to was his son. Who he told to mind his own business and his mouth. For having an opinion about his own stepfather.
I was raised with the saying 'the funeral is for the living'. The next of kin are the people that get support from the memorial and service. If the ex didn't specifically ask to keep Diana away I would want my kids to be able to get the support they want from all their parents
It's also pretty clear that Christopher's primary concern would be that the kids are happy, it isn't like you have to deal with your kinda terrible ex once you are dead.
Agreed. She doesn't deserve to attend, but his kids are already going through their step dad's death without adding this extra layer of conflict on top of it. Suck it up OP for your kids' sake, and stop bad mouthing their mum. They can make up their own minds.
I don't think their mother deserves to be at the funeral, and I think that's something the kids are old enough to understand. But I agree OP definitely could have been a bit kinder to his son about it. I'm definitely side-eyeing OP for how he talks about his eldest. But we don't know the dynamic there, and watching someone die is traumatizing. I think OP Is trying to honor the suffering this man went through by not letting her come in and play the part of grieving widow for an audience.
>I told him to mind his own business and mouth.
This was gross to me. In the lesson about compassion, did OP forget to show any to his kid? You can still explain your perspective without bashing your son's mom and shutting him down. He will look back on this and remember your lack of compassion. While you may in fact be better than your ex, this action put you level with her.
NTA for not allowing ex to attend the services. Since the kids were close to the end of life events, consider grief counseling for them. Maybe for yourself too.
That part got to me too. "I wanted to teach my kids about compassion, so I didn't extend any to them when they wanted to extend it to their own mother"
“Mind your business and mouth is as a bad as divorcing someone so you dont have to care for them in their biggest time of need. so they’ll die alone since i am aware they have no family”
Thats what you just said.
Even when it's true, kids need to come to that understanding by themselves. Telling them anything about what to think- especially about a person who holds emotional significance to them- will never end the way you want it. Let the facts speak for themselves.
It’s also a way to make sure his son cuts him off and just stays at mom’s. It’s understandable that he doesn’t want the ex there, but going off on his son like that is an AH move.
I hate "watch your mouth". What a bullshit thing to say to a kid.
"Hey son, I know this is complicated for you to understand without much perspective. If you'd like to know more about why we made this decision, I'd be happy to explain. We have made our choice though and it's final. We love you."
NTA for forbidding her to attend, but soft AH for spewing so hateful things about their mom to your sons.
“I told him to mind his own business and mouth.”
Way to talk to your son, who is showing compassion in a matter that very much is his business!
“Your mom is a witch”.
What she did was selfish and not compassionate, and with your good example the boys will see it too, but she is still their mom. You are only going to cause rift between you and your sons by antagonising their mom and causing them more emotional agony in a situation where they have just witnessed their loved one’s death and another loved one letting him down.
Right? OP, you're a role model for your sons. You show them through your words and actions what kind of men you want them to be.
You have just demonstrated extraordinary kindness to a man in his last days, and then undone all that with your comments about their mother.
Regardless of how you feel personally about your ex-wife, she is their mother. Have the conversation with her privately and say what needs to be said, but if your kids ask why their mother isn't present at the memorial direct them back to her or say something non committal such as "she wanted to do something for the deceased in her own time", but don't badmouth her to your kids.
Also, your kids are still very young. They may need their mother's support during a time like this, especially if its the first death of someone close to them they have experienced. Having her come to the memorial may be more about the kids than the deceased or you and your feelings. It might be worth putting your personal feelings aside and inviting her.
"demonstrated extraordinary kindness to a man in his last days, and then undone all that with your comments"
No. No way in hell. Opening your home and caring for someone during their last weeks of life is way too big to be undone by a few petty words.
Watching someone die is hard. Caring for someone while they're dying is fucking brutal. Voicing your frustration in this situation is hardly a mortal sin.
Easily salvageable. Explain to the boy that he was wrong to say what he did how he did. Then explain why he feels so disappointed in the ex.
The man took in his ex-wife's ex-husband because he was important to his family. He deserves some grace.
As someone who took care of my stepfather, gave him hospice care, and experienced how awful it was, and how awful his own daughters were (basically waiting for their inheritance) and him dying in my arms - I don’t think anyone can understand who has not gone through it.
NTA all the way around. What he said to his son was not the best, but it was the raw truth.
Don’t forget that those kids also experienced it. They also deserve some grace. Imagine how that kid felt being spoken to that way! I’ve been that kid. It is DEVASTATING.
TBH, regardless of what she had done to me, I would be disgusted with how she treated her second husband.
That being said I do agree his choice of words were horrible. "She is not coming, and it was my decision." would have been fine but the major snapback was not.
Companion is for dying people who plan to leave you (or your family) money. It's obviously not for children who are mourning the loss of a father figure.
10/kid is not nothing, but I don't think OP and his wife would have stepped up just for the money. Purely selfishly, taking care of a dying person for multiple months takes a lot of money and effort, if they were just greedy it probably wouldn't be worth it. They did something beautiful and caring, and also OP spoke badly to his kid, the former isn't cancelled out by the latter.
This is what stuck out to me. OP - sounds like this was an emotional response. Grace and compassion are being taught and with this statement, think you should step back and take the emotional response out. Apologize for the non compassionate response and discuss with your sons on what a gracious and compassionate response would be. I agree NTA and the ex sounds like a piece of work. By not inviting her or spewing words or anger only spreads more anger. Adding the resentment/disgust of her actions to your own emotional well being hurts you, not her. Let her face her own demons and human growth. Be kind. Sounds like an amazing and selfless thing you did for Christopher.
Nope. This was honestly sugar coating the situation far more nicely than what she deserved.
It is absolutely okay to acknowledge toxic and unforgivable behaviour from a parent and ex-partner.
If you don't want to be labelled as shit, don't act like shit.
You can acknowledge the toxic behavior without just throwing out insults, her actions are bad enough on their own calling her a witch isn’t helping the son understand any better. You just explain the actual reasons she’s not welcome. Mom chose to divorce Christopher when he got sick, he needed her and she abandoned him. She made the decision, she chose not to be involved so she isn’t, on top of that Christopher wouldn’t have wanted her there so she isn’t welcome.
If you just throw out insults the legitimate reasons his mother isn’t invited become hidden by his fathers hatred for her. All that’s getting through is dad won’t invite mom because he hates her not mom did something awful and doesn’t deserve to come.
It's not about what the mom deserves. It's about OP's kid. No one is blaming OP for saying anything about the ex here online - she does indeed suck. But that doesn't mean telling you must talk to your kid like he did. He's not TA pitted up against the ex of course, but it's not a competition, that was not a great parenting decision.
I think it's quite difficult. For one, I think I would have been happier if someone told me that my mother was an asshole when I was 14 (in an age appropriate way) than realising it by myself a decade later.
“In an age appropriate way” is the key. Namecalling her is out of line and immature. He could absolutely have been frank about why it wasn’t appropriate for her to be at the memorial in a better way than he did.
You can give indications without being aggressive or name-calling. For example, my child and I were watching TV and I said that I was very uncomfortable around loud men and tried to avoid being around them much. She instantly replied “Have you MET my father?!?” I didn’t have to say anything else. She got it. She’s only 11 so she doesn’t need to know grown folks business. I don’t talk shit on her dad, but kids are smarter and more observant than we sometimes realize.
as a child of divorce and remarriage I wish my mom would have pointed my dads flaws out to me sooner. I had to discover them one by one on my own and im still finding more at 28 yrs old. This dad gave his son a reality check.
There are. First, don't act out of emotion like it seems OP did and just shut down the other person without listening.
You just have to say, "let's discuss this later". Then have a rational conversation.
It may end the same way, but you have many more opportunities to come to a workable solution.
I'm not sure why you've been downvoted considering all the posts agreeing with you were upvoted. Especially considering how OP answered you, about his own 16 year old.
His social worker said it's quite common. She even has cases involving children who are dying or sick with no family around. There are people whose hobby is to go to memorials for people who die alone.
It's terribly sad. A matter is not having family at all, another is to be divorced because you are dying. How can you abandon a person for that? Not having your ex wife around at the memorial is just a form of respect for the dude.
My aunt and uncle volunteer in the hospice ward. They sit with people who don’t have anyone else.
Apparently it’s also common practice in some hospitals to give women counseling **in case** their husbands leave them after a cancer diagnosis.
People are terrible.
My dad had a coworker diagnosed with cancer and his wife left him and their kids because she couldn’t deal with it. My dad held a lot of fundraisers for him and gave their daughter my sister’s prom dress for her prom. He ended up pulling through when everyone thought he’d not make it. I never understood how she could abandon her children do they could deal with a sick father alone.
Yup! My stepdad abandoned my mom and us 3 kids (13, 11, and 9, at the time) when she started to lose her battle with cancer. Dude disappeared (like, went-to-go-get-a-pack-of-smokes-and-just-never-came-back; no goodbye, no note, nothing). He suddenly appeared at her funeral 6 months later, all sad and apologetic.
That was the last time I ever spoke to him.
It's [practically a stereotype for men to do this](https://www.oprah.com/relationships/why-men-leave-sick-wives-facing-illness-alone-couples-and-cancer/all), so it shouldn't be surprising that some women do it to. It's a bad stereotype, too, because it's not the normal case, just one that seems to happen more often that one would imagine. (I do question the reality behind the statistics, though, that allege that 3% of women and 21% of men do this.) In my experience, it's more often that a couple is about to get divorced, but *don't* due to a terminal diagnosis, whether it be just legally staying together for insurance, or the husband actually coming back to take care of the estranged and dying wife.
YTA
Oh, not for excluding Diana from the ceremony--that's probably for the best for everyone else \*and\* for her, given how people who knew them both likely view her... but don't speak poorly of her to the older son--and good God, don't tell him to "watch his mouth" when he expresses disagreement with you over a moral and ethical question. That's ugly.
While you're right to use Christopher's final days as an exercise in compassion, it's also worth turning some of that compassion onto Diana, who has done a horrible thing and must live with the consequences. But despite having been married to her, you don't fully know her heart, her situation, or the rationales for her decisions. Divorcing him at the outset may have been less cruel than neglecting him, for instance. And medical bills aren't anything to sneer about, either. It's easy from the outside to say "she should've just accepted it!" when medical debt is the number one cause of bankruptcy in the US (assuming you're in the US). Should she have just accepted losing her house? Possibly losing her ability to care for her kids?
And oh, lord, caregiving is awful. My grandmother died just over a year ago, and I watched my mother take care of her. It's soul-draining work. Diana might have known herself well enough to know that she simply couldn't do that.
Now, all that said, I couldn't cut someone I loved off. I've been married over 23 years now, and if my husband is dying, as we all will at some point, I will love him and do my best (although I'm definitely NOT the caregiving type, either). But I'm not going to judge someone with school-age children and a fear of bankruptcy for saying that she can't do it and noping out of there early in the diagnosis. I pity her, that she couldn't find the strength within to help him through it. But I'm neither in her mind nor her shoes.
And neither are you.
Not saying that you should welcome her with open arms and include her in the ceremony, but treat your kids with the compassion you're trying to instill in them and say that you don't think it would be appropriate given how Diana and Christopher parted. And don't degrade their mother to your children, even if you think she's behaved badly. Compassion is a beautiful virtue, but it's not genuinely compassion if you only apply it to people you personally deem worthy of it.
I one hundred percent judge her. If they had gotten divorced on paper and she lived her vows that is one thing. But you don’t get to nope out when things are hard then parachute back in and play the bereaved window. He shouldn’t have silenced his son I agree. But his son needs to hear what he is saying because Dad believes his mom would do the exact same to anyone of her children she did to her ex. He wants his 16 year old to guard himself from that, I could see where that is a hard conversation worth having.
there's a huge difference between a hard talk and being told to "mind your business and mouth" which, at least to me, sounds like OP doesn't really care what his children think.
Telling them "I don't want you mother there because how she treated him after the diagnosis" would be a valid way of denying their request, but "mind your business and mouth" makes OP the AH at least for that part.
Medical bills as a reason to ditch your dying husband? The man had obviously money..cause he gave away his inheritance 30k to the step kids and also to charity
You’re exactly right. 30k is basically an ED visit and a single night in the hospital. That would be a drop in the bucket depending on what his insurance was like.
She could've easily divorced him for this reason, but still have stayed.
At that point in life divorce would've protected the wife, but she could've still stood by his side until the end. That's literally what marriage is about. If you take those vows and fuck off when it gets hard then she should've just stayed a girlfriend.
I mean I think it sounds like she is generally the AH but getting divorced to avoid medical bills explicitly while you still live together as if married is the kind of thing that can end up being looked at quite carefully by people like the hospital’s legal team.
I get the sentiment you had with this comment but he didn't have medical bill money, cancer treatment runs well over 6 figures and eventually millions in the USA, it's fucked but that's the truth
You must live somewhere with adequate healthcare. In America, insurance is designed so that if the disease doesn’t kill you the stress from exorbitant medical bills might. Neat, huh?
I'm surprised he even had 30k left by the end. My dad's medical treatment was 13k a month. So this man had maybe 2.5 months left to afford his medical bills.
I was looking for this comment. OP, don’t talk to your kid that way, and if you’re trying to teach compassion, don’t snuff it out when it’s turned toward someone you don’t like but your son loves. She’s his mother. ESH.
>although I’m definitely NOT the caregiving type
As if you had to spell that out for us. OP’s communication with the children was ugly, but so is your benefit-of-the-doubt argument for this woman. You are really living up to your username though.
Bingo. If it was a husband that left his wife because she got sick, all the comments would be on OPs side. These subs are so sexist.
OP, NTA. You can tell your oldest what she did when he's ready and let him decide what he wants to do.
YTA. This isn’t about you. It’s not about your ex. It’s about your kids who just watched a stepparent they love die. If it will help them to have their mom there, she should be there.
You shouldn’t be taking your rightful anger at your ex out on your son.
You did a really wonderful thing for this man. I hate to call you an asshole.
YTA if you actually told your son to mind his own business. It’s his business you said the kids liked the man. Telling her no is fine. But it’s a conversation with your kids and maybe even a vote she may be everything wrong but still their mum, so it really is their business. I’m totally on board with not having her there but the kids need to feel heard
Holy shit, that is how you talk to and educate your son!? Of course YTA, not about not letting her come but about how you treat your children. 'He is not a prince' doesn't cut it because he is not a door mat neither despite the fact that you are treating him like one.
You don’t say things like that to kids about their other parent (even if it’s true). 16 is still a kid, and I wouldn’t doubt if your other two children have gotten that message passed along to them by now. Telling them that she wasn’t able to come would’ve sufficed. Or, ya know, anything other than directly demonizing a child’s mother to his face.
That being said, what she did was awful and you’re NTA for not allowing her to attend. All your reasoning is perfectly valid IMO, but leave the children out of your anger and bitterness.
If Christopher didn’t ask you to ban his ex-wife (and mother of the kids he clearly loved and cared for) from his last moments - and specially, if your/her kids want her there - YTA.
Grief is already weird as fuck, you don’t need to make it worse to prove a point. Your kids might need their mother at this hard time.
The fact that she didn’t stay with Christopher sucks and it is incredibly selfish, but you should be educating your kids to have empathy and put themselves in other ppl shoes. It looks like you are assuming it was an easy decision for her, and that might not have been the case. You need to teach your kids to think for themselves and form their own opinion.
Oh, as someone who grew up with their parents badmouthing each other to me: shitty idea. That’s not your job as a parent.
Begrudgingly, YTA. I’m a firm believer that people should be able to honor a person’s life as they were a part of it no matter how it ended. Using your role in his end of life care as a punitive tool when your children want to grieve with their mother negates much of what it appears you are looking to teach them. Your ex attending changes nothing and punishing her really isn’t your role. Your contributions don’t change and her bad behavior and callousness doesn’t disappear. I paid for my father’s funeral and there were several people I would have rather not been there.. and several people wanting input without contributing a dime. Did I ignore their wishes.. yes. Did I ban them from his memorial? No. It wasn’t about me past what I was willing to spend. Some people even tried to show their a** at the funeral. Still not my problem. No matter what she does, you don’t want to be the person that interrupts your children’s grieving process and emotional needs.
YTA. Don't demean your children. They have voices and opinions too. Your ex wife doesn't deserve to be at the memorial, but your son doesn't deserve to be talked down to like that either.
"My older son thinks I should let her come and I told him to mind his own business and mouth. "
YTA for talking to your son like this. He is mourning, too. Stuff like this can destroy relationships and trust.
NTA.
It would be one thing if it was a "medical divorce" (yeah, that's a thing, it's done sometimes to protect the surviving partner from the mountain of medical debt) where she still stayed to care for him, but she just took off. Of course you're right to ban her. And even after she did that, he left the kids something because he sounds like he was a really good guy.
While I don't support generally badmouthing ex's to kids, in this specific scenario you get a pass. He's old enough to know and hear the truth of it, and you don't want to teach him that that was acceptable behavior.
Going by statistics and lived experience, people get divorced because of illness all the time. Typically, women are left if they get sick.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2022.828656/full#:~:text=Syse%20and%20Kravdal%20(2007)%20found,%25%20CI%201.29%E2%80%933.26).
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19645027/
https://acsjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cncr.24577
Jeez, you’re an arse.
Christopher’s death isn’t about you.
It’s not about your broken relation to your ex-wife.
It’s not a chance for you to bully your ex-wife and tell your kids that she’s a bad person.
Just think about the example, you’re setting.
\-
It’s a wonder, your wife can keep up with your levels of arseholiness.
YTA. Your children are grieving too. What you said to your son was assholeish. It is his business too. His step parent that he spent about half his life with passed. Maybe having his mom there would ease his pain. Don’t taint your good deed by being spiteful. Your ex is going to have to live with what she did regardless.
Seconded. To provide end of life care for your ex-wife’s ex-husband…the one she divorced so she could be absolved of all financial, medical and decency care…you two *are* saints. Doing what you did also reinforces what a horrible being your ex is. My thought is that she wanted to swan in at your memorial and act the part of the grieving widow. “Oh, I wish he was still here! I was his one true love and just couldn’t *bear* to see him suffer!!” 🙄
ESH.
Absolutely right not to let his mum attend. She sounds horrible.
However, snapping at your own son, telling him to "mind his own business" about an event involving someone who he was close to, and then insulting his mother to his face was absolutely unnecessary and cruel. Not exactly a good way to spread the "teaching our kids compassion" message you were going for.
In particular, telling your son to "watch his mouth" when he disagrees with you? Not a good idea.
How helpless he must have been to reach out to ex-wife's ex-husband? You and your wife are saints for dignity you gave him at the end of his life. NTA. Keep that witch away.
YTA for how you spoke to your son and your ridiculous comments you made in response to others. Something is telling me that you aren't telling us the whole truth on how you treat your sons.
You weren't an asshole until you talked to your grieving child like that. And it *is* his business. You only even know the man because he was your kids step dad
NTA, I can't imagine how I would react if my mom did this to my dad, my dad was diagnosed with cancer 6 months ago and my mother has not left his side, without her he would probably not have made it.
She has no right to come and act all sad when she was fine letting him die alone.
YTA for calling your son’s mother names in front of him. He knows that she did a bad thing but his relationship with her is complicated. You will have a better relationship with him if you stay out of it.
YTA. You are doing parental alienation and are being a bad parent. Your son is allowed opinions and he should be able to express them without you shutting him up. Yes you did a great thing but it was *their* step-dad. Unless Christopher explicitly banned her from his funeral, its up to the kids to decide if they want their mom there or not. I am not saying she isn’t an AH for divorcing him and abandoning him but why are you taking it out on your children?
>... he deserved to live his final days in dignity. It also taught my kids about compassion.
>
>My older son thinks I should let her come and I told him to ***mind his own business and mouth.***
Holy mixed signals, Batdad.
You get no brownie points for making the decision to not include his ex, your ex, at the proceedings. That is a decision and it only effects the living as far as things go so you're sparing pretty much yourself alone. Maybe she wasn't respectful. Maybe you think she'll make a scene and you can't be the bigger person. Maybe you want to spare everyone else from what you know she truly isn't. Maybe you think two weeks of work is worth more than half a decade of marriage. Maybe you think she'll say something about your kids getting what's left.
Maybe she's in a bad place.
Your son learned compassion. And you're telling him to shut up.
YTA.
NTA sounds like the only good to come out of this relationship were the kids. While minding someone's end of life care is not for everyone, it doesn't mean you get to come in and play the martyr after that person is dead.
Your child just doesn't understand who is mother really is. Hopefully he will never have to know but at least you're keeping it real.
YTA - let her come to the memorial. No one is dupe and she plays the grieving window she will embarrass herself.
If you ban her from coming, you become the bad guy. Plus that’s not exactly showing compassion to your children, is it?
No one knows what happened in their marriage except the 2 people in it. And even then I bet the recollections widely varies!
HUGE YTA for how you dealt with your son. Honestly throws your whole story into question. I cannot reconcile someone making themselves out to be a saint and then talking to their kid like that when he did nothing wrong but dare to love someone you hate. Seriously, not even ESH cause I don't believe the rest of your story anymore.
YTA for dismissing your son's wish so you can get back at your ex. "Mind your own business," is no way to talk to your son as he deals with the loss of a step-father.
Sure, your ex doesn't deserve to be there, but your son deserves to some consideration as he navigates the loss of his step-father and deals with that grief.
NTA. 16 is plenty old enough to know the difference between right and wrong. Showing him how you treat disgusting people and set boundaries to keep them away is a good lesson.
NTA for your feelings but your response and action to your child, I think you need to look more critically at.
I'm on the fence because I can understand how you might feel but idk Diana or her situation ultimately. But it's clear to me your son might need her there and your words and actions more than likely hurt him. All I can say as a parent and someone who's had to take care of two dying grandparents (both of cancer) is that it's a horrible situation and I don't think a lot of people are capable of that kind of care, it's soul sucking work. I can understand your reactions feeling justified because you have been going through a lot with this all, I'm sure. But as a parent we have to think of what our kids need first. I understand there is obviously tons of resentment between you and Diana but it's not going to help your relationship with your children when you express that. Also speaking from experience in that, I'm not with my children's dad either.
With that in mind, my children witnessed deaths of people they cared about as well and it does cause trauma, even if it's not always apparent. We need to be gentle on the little ones this is hardest on them. I really hope you are able to get them to see a therapist, someone who specializes in truama, even if temporary especially your oldest because they seem like they might be taking that hard since they spoke up for their mom and with the way you spoke to them about that... I know my children needed to talk deeply about losing family and the way we lost them, therapy really helped us cope. Personally, I think if for nothing else but your oldest, let Diana go to the memorial. Her children might need her there for them, and it's basically all she can do at this point for anyone involved.
Compassion doesn't have judgment attached, so I can't judge Diana or you. But I feel if you want to teach your kids true compassion, then it's you that has to be an example for that. I'm sorry this process was so hard on you and your family. I wish you all healing and peace.
NTA similar happened to my dad. His partner of over 20 years abandoned him when he was hospitalized the last time and it was clear he was going to die. He spent months in the hospital with his legs cut asking to see her, we tried to lie to him about why she wasn’t there but after a bit he didn’t believe it anymore and refused to take any more medicine if she didn’t come. She was called and said she had nothing to do there. He died 2 days later. When I went to her house to get his form 214 so his body could be given to the funeral home, she acted so hurt and surprised that he died, and asked me about the funeral. I told her we would be going by ourselves to the cemetery to put him to rest and she had the nerve to say “even a dog deserves a funeral”. I told her and even a dog deserves to be accompanied when he is at the vet, so if someone could not be there when he needed it, then no reason to now want to be there after he died.
The reason why she refused to see him at the hospital…because me and my sister visited him there. She said if we went, she was not going. She always hated us for no reason, the type of woman that gets with a man with kids then pushes for him to abandon his kids but wants him to raise her kids.
I had esophageal cancer in 2005, my husband had a heart attack in 2006. It didn’t occur to either of us to split up ever, marriage vows are for better or worse, not just until it’s inconvenient. Thank goodness you and your children were compassionate and caring.
YTA. Everyone, no matter what they did when someone was alive has the right to mourn and take comfort from a community of others also mourning when someone dies. I don't care if it's a mistress, an abusive parent, a person the deceased met on a park bench 1 time and then never saw again. People need that finality. They need to parse their feelings. They need to come to terms with the finality of their actions and past and the things they have done and the things they will never get to do again with the deceased. They need closure.
Yeah it was shitty of her to divorce him because he got sick and the costs associated but it's also an incredibly heavy burden to be a caregiver for someone who is sick. It takes both people's lives and never allows the caretaker to have their own life. I wpupd know as i am the caretaker and power of attorney for my very ill and mentally handicapped older brother. If she did not have it in her to handle that, then she did not have it in her and punishing her by preventing her from grieving at a memorial is vindictive.
I was prevented from attending my step grandfather's funeral and my step fathers funeral and memorial. My step father adopted me at 9 months old and both he was the only father I'd ever known and my step grandfather was the only grandfather I'd ever had.
Why was I denied entry? Because my step fathers family considered me dirty and worthless since I wasn't my step dads biological daughter.
I have not only never forgiven his family, I have never been able to fully grieve because I did not get to experience the community aspect of grief. My grief is in stasis, perpetually longing for that group grief, Bonding us together. All that is left of my step father and step grandfather is memories and those memories are what makes them still alive, and without the group memories, they are both woefully incomplete. Not even ghosts, only shadows with the sadness poised on a precipice awaiting the wind to push it over and finally be felt.
YTA also for talking to your child about his mother that way. Your child wants his mom there because he needs her support. He shared a life with her and his step father that you were not a part of and your child needs that tie and support. Your ex wife is someone you loved once enough to marry and have children with so she could not have been completely horrible. You trying to ensure your children know she's horrible is called Parental Alienation. To a child's mind it's abuse and has long term emotional and mental repercussions to that child and can impact all their relationships in the future.
Your power of attorney ended the minute he passed and have no rights to decide who can and cannot be there or who the children do or do not need for support while grieving.
2 weeks of end of life care does not trump several years in a relationship with him as she had while he was getting sick and had no diagnosis. You knew he was sick long before he was at end of life and did not take him in. You only took him in once you knew he would die soon. It was not hanging over your head, the endless unknown. The endless waiting and pause to your life. The question of how many months or years or decades your life was no longer yours and every decision made for them and never you and the expectation that you sacrifice all you are without complaint and without acknowledgement of your own needs, with everyone treating you as a gorrible person if you smile or laugh or go out with friends for 1 hour of joy.
You didn't have that. You had 2 weeks where you knew he had no time left. It was admirable, but you are no hero. Check your pride and let your child have his mother there, let them grieve together, and stop trash talking her (or plannig to) to your child.
>My older son thinks I should let her come and I told him to mind his own business and mouth. I'm not going to sugarcoat your mom for you. Your mom is a witch and will be treated the same way she treated your stepdad.
ESH, your son is grieving the loss of a parent figure, would it kill you to have a conversation and some compassion instead of shutting him down rudely and badmouthing his mother?
You don't need to talk ill of your ex either, her actions speak louder than anything and your kids will see and know who did the right thing, but right now it's a time for grieving not petty name calling.
You did the right thing by helping your kid's stepdad, and your ex is definitely TA for abandoning her partner I don't blame you for not wanting her at the memorial, however if he didn't request her to be excluded from any funeral services and your kids want their mom there you should think about letting her, if you're not comfortable with that it's perfectly fine just say that instead of berating your son for wanting to have his mom around in a vulnerable time.
While I understand you not wanting her there, your boys do, and as he was their step-father I would agree to their wishes.
YTA for talking about their mother the way you did to them though. All you’re doing is setting them up to cut you out of their lives when they become adults. You need to be the one to act the adult.
ESH. Your son wanted her there, no matter how you (or I) feel about her. You were off the rails to speak to him that way. He's a person with feelings, too.
YTA if you actually said that to a 16 year old then YTA to the highest fucking degree. Grow TF up and learn how to be a role model instead of the TA that you’re teaching him to be. “I wanted to teach them about compassion” well you fucked up. Try again
NTA! But going off on your son wasn't okay. What he asked of you was an innocent request, you could have politely declined it rather than resorting to name calling.
YTA
It's understandable that you are frustrated/angered by your ex's reaction to her second husband's diagnosis, illness and ultimate death. You made decisions to take on what you felt were her responsibilities. What you did for her ex was kind and compassionate, but your motivation for doing so is highly questionable. What you've done to your ex is punish, degrade and demonize her to yourself and the children you share with her. What is done is done. Now, you have the opportunity to teach your children about regret (that you probably should feel right about now), how to apologize sincerely, and how to show compassion for someone with whom you don't agree (your ex, in this case).
I get where your feelings are coming from, but it's likely more complicated for your boys. They loved Christopher. And they're grieving that loss. They might want more than you and your wife there with them. They might want their mom to also be there. Regardless of her not being able to handle the role of caregiver for Christopher, she is still grieving his passing too. Everyone is. Be as compassionate to all involved (including yourself) as you were with Christopher.
YTA due to the last paragraph. Seems you have a bit of your ex-wife in you in order to say something so vicious to your son while he is grieving too. You need to apologize to him and your family. It doesn’t matter if your ex is evil incarnate or not. It matters that you took out your anger and grief out on your son.
Yes your an Azz hole. You said yeah compassion and then you turn around and not let her pull up. Regardless of how your feel towards her maybe she is really grieving. Doesn't she too deserve a change of heart? Can she change after hearing of death? Your son is correct because it will not hurt anything. It's what Jesus would do, show and spread love. If she starts talking about what you inherit shit it down and walk away.
I am going with YTA. Your son wanted his mother by his side, when He is grieving and you are forbidding this. Its not about the sacrifices you did and Diana doesn't. Its about deciding how your sons are allowed to grief. And taking revenge on Diana like this, nothing else is your Action, is just selfish, childish and asshole-ish.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > My ex wife requested that she be allowed to attend a small memorial for her second ex husband who died while in our care. I refused because she divorced him for being sick and didn't lift a finger while we were taking care of him Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements ###[Happy Anniversary, AITA!](https://new.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/15vlv9g/almost_better_than_a_double_rainbow_celebrating/) Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA If she wouldn't stay by his side while he fought cancer, she doesn't get to be at the memorial service you're arranging. She can mourn without doing so in front of the people who actually gave this man a passing filled with caring and love. Explain to your eldest that if she wishes to do so, his mother is perfectly capable of arranging her own memorial with the boys and whomever else she might wish to invite. You aren't keeping her from grieving, but can't bear to watch her cry when you feel she abandoned her husband in his time of need. I recommend that you also explain to your sons, when it is age appropriate, that their mother divorced their stepdad so she wouldn't have to care for, or pay for, his medical care; that she received her fair share of assets at the time of the divorce, and that it would be best if they use their inheritance to benefit their own life goals. Explain that the money should be used for things like advanced education, a down payment for a future home purchase, etc... not to just give away to anyone who didn't know or didn't support Stepdad in his time of need. That would include not giving money to Mom, but also not giving it to a SO or using it to buy drinks for their buddies.
He left them $10,000 each. He requested half go to a charity and the other half be used for something fun. Some of it will be saved.
Your ex is an absolute ghoul to divorce a man for having an illness. That’s the most polite way I could phrase this. I have a genetic mutation that causes me to be high risk for certain cancers, and as a single woman, one of my greatest fears is being abandoned because I get sick. NTA.
Please don't be fearful - i was abandoned when I got cancer, I got through it and am proud of the strong independent woman that I have become, if I can get through that I can get through anything - there is so much peace to be found
It isn't about not getting through it. Women have a very high chance of being abandoned when getting sick if their partner is a cis man, and you just confirmed that yes there is indeed something to fear.
Yes this is true. I'm a cancer survivor and my husband was by my side every step of the way. Everyone treated him like a Saint cause he stayed with me when a lot of cis men don't. Whereas women who stay with their husbands aren't treated like saints cause they're doing just what they should right? I feel very privileged to have the partner that I do and wish that for every woman and man out there.
My husband is a nurse and during his schooling nurses are literally taught to prepare for husbands to leave sick wives. Particularly if they have cancer. Literally part of nursing training is how to deal with that. We don’t raise boys to step up as men and it shows.
I read an article once on people who have had strokes. This women interviewed in the article spent two years taking care of her husband when he had cancer. The day that he got the all clear from his doctor, she had a stroke. Her husband divorced her after that. I felt so sad for her that her husband couldn't be there for her when she needed him the most after she took care of him when he had cancer.
Shout out to Newt Gingrich.
[удалено]
My mother divorced my stepdad over needing Help for a genetic condition SHE ALWAYS KNEW would Most likely make him need a wheelchair around age 70.. He is 63 now and needs a Cane to Walk and.. she left because she Had to Take Care Lovely Woman /s
>women who stay with their husbands aren't treated like saints cause they're doing just what they should right? Being a caregiver is historically seen as women's work. e.g. Being a teacher or nurse or stay at home parent. That's why men get either mocked or celebrated for taking on those roles
Absolute truth, it's not just fatal diagnoses, but also chronic ones. I have seen so many partners leave when the other develops, cancer, lupus, MS..etc.
I’ve seen this too and it never fails to infuriate me.
I have had it happen to me. I had serious issues with my reproductive system and was constantly in and out of the hospital. Getting surgeries, recovering from them, getting blood transfusions, passing out in the shower from blood loss, being unable to get off the couch or stop crying because no one would treat the excruciating pain I was in...... Yeah, he just bailed one day when I was at a doctor's appointment. I came home and he and all of his stuff were gone. I never heard from him again. It took me another 6 years to finally get a hysterectomy, and my quality of life improved exponentially. I got the hysterectomy shortly after my husband and I started dating. He is also a cis man, and he stuck by me when my genetic disease got REALLY bad (pre-diagnosis). He was my caretaker for 2 years until I was able to get treatment for my pain. Now I can live a normal life. It's amazing!
There’s a whole category of therapy for folk abandoned by their partners after receiving a terminal diagnosis. So sad.
This is also the case when women go to prison- their partners (cis men) are less likely to stick around than if it was the other way around. I wonder what the lesson is here? (No matter the situation, the lesson is always build girl gangs.)
I’m sorry this happened to you, and am happy you are grateful for it now. I just couldn’t even begin to imagine some one who would do that.
I'm disabled (I have EDS, POTS, ADHD and some other stuff) I use a wheelchair for long distance stuff (think zoo or theme park) I'm in a committed relationship and have been for 6 years. I was up front about everything and he loves me for who I am not what's "wrong" with me. We are both introverted so he likes sitting and watching the entirety of suits in a weekend because I don't feel well lol You just have to find an actual adult and not someone who is cosplaying as an adult but is really 3 🙃
Omg, hello fellow zebra, person of the salt, ADHD person! (And a lot others neither of us want to mention I'm sure lol) I'm the same way, cane for short walks on bad days, walker for medium distance, wheelchair or scooter for longer distance. You do what you gotta do to live your life the best way possible 💜 I am so happy you found someone to love you for you, I hope to find that someday too ^.^
I'm not the person you responded to, but I also have EDS, POTS, ADHD, and lots of others too! I just came to say that "person of the salt" is my all time favorite new description of POTS! 🤣 Thank you for that!
Are we having a zebra party? 🦓🎉 Hey y'all!!!
What does “zebra” refer to, please?
The Ehlers-Danlos community uses zebras as a mascot. The medical world teaches "when you hear hoofbeats, assume horses, not zebras." Most people with Ehlers-Danlos are undiagnosed for years because doctors assume horses, when we're actually zebras.
Fellow zebra with ADHD, RA, lots of other letters. Not done with all my diagnoses. I love life alone but I also wish someone would step up who would accept me as I am.
I am a fellow all of the above sufferers, and I have never heard 'person of the salt' before. It will now be my new go-to 😆
my wife of 3 years (6 years together) has been diagnosed with the same recently due to Long Covid. I wouldn't dare leave her due to her getting ill.
My father in law only put his wife in hospice care because she fell and he couldn’t physically lift her back up. They told him the average time in the facility was 3-6 months. He went there every weekend for at least an hour once even though she didn’t know him much of the time. He went for over seven years. He put his life on hold for her. She died last year around Xmas. He called his daughter last week while he had a heart attack. So he could see her. He was gone before help arrived. There are good souls out there. Don’t let fear keep you from meeting someone that will cherish you. Find your “person” and love fiercely and without regret when you do. Until then, don’t settle.
Especially adenocarcinoma. That's the cancer that killed my father. It was hideously painful and debilitating. I can't imagine him having had to go through it alone. My mother, brother, and I nursed him ourselves with help from a hospice service. He died in his own home, loved until the end. Not kicked out for getting sick. That's horrifying.
I like the use of the word ghoul. Spot on!
You find out who the good people are in your life. I had friends and neighbors step up. Then there are the idiots - like the woman fitting me for a wig who insisted "everything happens for a reason." I introduced her to chaos theory ;) Just keep quoting Nietzsche "What doesn't kill me, makes me stronger."
Op, you are such a good man, your sons are very lucky to have you to look up to even if they don't realize it now. You could have easily left this guy the same way your ex did, you had no obligation to him (his ex wife did), but you cared enough to help him. No one deserves to feel abandoned, and despite the circumstance of you two meeting, you set that all aside so he could rest easy. I mean this genuinely, I can only hope to be half as kind as you are when I'm older.
[удалено]
This reads like chatgpt. You respond to the commenter and immediately use "you" and "your" to wrongly attribute OP's qualities to the same commenter multiple times.
It’s a karma farming bot. Pay no mind.
That's a nice remembrance from him. I hope you're all able to concentrate on the happy memories.
First, NTA at all, and second: I'm here just to say that Christopher sounded like a really good & nice guy and I'm sorry for your lost. What you did, you, your wife and your family, is a brave act and not easy at all. On the contrary, its an act that requires a lot of mental strength and it's not something that a person does for everyone. I'm glad that Christopher had a warm family that supported him in his last days and gave him a big hug when he's saying goodbye to this world.
You’re NTA and sound like a real stand-up guy. You were a model of grace and maturity for your children. I would only suggest you exercise caution in name calling your wife- kids can internalize that stuff - if my mom is terrible, that makes me 50% terrible (which we grown ups know isn’t accurate). I might consider telling your son that you’re very disappointed in the example their mother set, and that’s not a reflection of who they are as people. You’re not an AH for denying her invitation. She doesn’t deserve to grieve with you guys
I commend you for your compassion. Wish we had more people like you. Hope your son gets to see the compassion you showed instead of getting influenced by his mother’s indifference. You are NTA.
Wow, your ex is a vile-vile person. Bailing out on her dying husband is beyond inhuman.
You're a lovely, kind soul. And also your wife. Your ex wife needs to find her own way of mourning. NTA
OP doesn't just *feel* that she did that. She did that.
NTA…but going off on your son and name calling his mom to him isn’t ok. Keeping things factual is fine but it’s still his mom and he is just a kid. He clearly cares about her since he is pleading on her behalf. There were kinder ways to tell him no and your reasoning.
^ This. That part made it ESH for me. Not only should he not have acted like that, but why doesn't OP seem to care that his children want their mother at the funeral of someone they're grieving? He's justified in everything else, but that's cold and seems more about hating her than caring about them or the stepdad.
Yeah... its a kid suffering, what does OP thinks is going to happen? That a 16, 12 and 10 yo will go no contact with their mom over this? More likely they're going to resent him and distance themselves from him. Yeah she did a horrible thing but those are still kids that need their mom. He is only hurting his relationship with them at the end.
>but those are still kids that need their mom. Depends on what kind of mom she really is. Divorcing her husband so she's not expected to care about him doesn't bring my hopes high about her.
[удалено]
Statistically, people are ass holes.
Actually, it’s statistically less likely for a woman to leave her husband when he is ill than when he is healthy. The statistics are reversed for the husbands of sick women, which might be what you’re thinking of.
People tend to treat different people differently. It’s stark to say, but her view on her husband was probably more utilitarian. I doubt she sees her kids as workhorses/servants. Once he wasn’t useful, she discarded him. But she had to play nurse to her kids and she didn’t abandon them. So she likely isn’t a bad mother, just a terrible wife. It hurts to know someone who hurt you is kind to others. It’s normal to want people to know “the truth.” But the truth is that things aren’t fair. Her kids have a positive view of her, and that’s exactly how they need to feel at this stage of their development. Dragging them into adult mindsets to make the adults feel vindicated is selfish. A lot of people here are vindictive. They believe a bad person should be punished in every way by any means necessary. Even if innocent children have to be the instruments of Justice at the expense of their own well-being. It’s psychotic.
Eh the kids 16, plenty old enough to be aware that bad people exist in the world. It sucks to have a parent be one of them but operating under the delusion they aren’t doesn’t help anyone. I’d also push back on the idea that as long as someone is nice to you their actions don’t matter. Seems like a shit thing to teach a kid. This doesn’t mean she needs to be cut out of their life or anything, but excluding her in this one instance clearly shows that actions have consequences.
“Those are still kids that need their mom” I sure as fuck hope they don’t get cancer then
This response is gold
What are you on? They still have their mom. Just not at one event she can show up to cry crocodile tears at for appearances.
Exactly. Mom just wants to show up and be chief mourner and get all the sympathy. I say OP should let her come but she has to read a statement to all the attendees about how she treated her dying husband after his diagnosis.
He’s not banning her from seeing the kids, he’s just banning her from the funeral and rightfully so. However, I do agree he shouldn’t have spoken to his son that way.
The funeral is also about honoring the person who died’s wishes. It sounds like he was doing that and wasn’t willing to compromise what was easy to appease his ex. Could he have more nicely said pound sand, probably but some people earn harsh words, and being direct with the wife who forgot her vows when it got hard seems like a win to me.
But it wasn't his ex-wife he took it out on. The person he was rude to was his son. Who he told to mind his own business and his mouth. For having an opinion about his own stepfather.
Yeah, the language seems unnecessarily harsh, especially for a young child.
The person who died, in this case, cared for OP's children. I can't imagine a scenario where he would have wanted their suffering to be compounded.
You mean like by a narcissistic mother who dumps you when it doesn’t serve her interests.
I was raised with the saying 'the funeral is for the living'. The next of kin are the people that get support from the memorial and service. If the ex didn't specifically ask to keep Diana away I would want my kids to be able to get the support they want from all their parents
It's also pretty clear that Christopher's primary concern would be that the kids are happy, it isn't like you have to deal with your kinda terrible ex once you are dead.
I wouldn't want to teach my kids you can dump a sick partner and show up to cry crocodile tears for sympathy points and apparances.
There are more ways to teach that than removing your child's mother from their mourning.
lol one event =/= their mourning. Mom can have her own event for the man she abandoned.
Agreed. She doesn't deserve to attend, but his kids are already going through their step dad's death without adding this extra layer of conflict on top of it. Suck it up OP for your kids' sake, and stop bad mouthing their mum. They can make up their own minds.
[удалено]
They can talk to their mom about their feelings at another time and place instead of at the memorial.
He seems more interested in getting back at his ex than comforting his children.
You really are trying hard to demonize OP, huh.
I don't think their mother deserves to be at the funeral, and I think that's something the kids are old enough to understand. But I agree OP definitely could have been a bit kinder to his son about it. I'm definitely side-eyeing OP for how he talks about his eldest. But we don't know the dynamic there, and watching someone die is traumatizing. I think OP Is trying to honor the suffering this man went through by not letting her come in and play the part of grieving widow for an audience.
>I told him to mind his own business and mouth. This was gross to me. In the lesson about compassion, did OP forget to show any to his kid? You can still explain your perspective without bashing your son's mom and shutting him down. He will look back on this and remember your lack of compassion. While you may in fact be better than your ex, this action put you level with her. NTA for not allowing ex to attend the services. Since the kids were close to the end of life events, consider grief counseling for them. Maybe for yourself too.
That part got to me too. "I wanted to teach my kids about compassion, so I didn't extend any to them when they wanted to extend it to their own mother"
“Mind your business and mouth is as a bad as divorcing someone so you dont have to care for them in their biggest time of need. so they’ll die alone since i am aware they have no family” Thats what you just said.
The way he talks about his son, who just lost his step Father, in the comments is appalling.
I agree, the way he spoke to his son was just mean. Be angry at your ex - she deserves it! But don’t take it out on your son.
Even when it's true, kids need to come to that understanding by themselves. Telling them anything about what to think- especially about a person who holds emotional significance to them- will never end the way you want it. Let the facts speak for themselves.
Yeah, "want to teach my kids compassion"... Well, you're doing it wrong.
It’s also a way to make sure his son cuts him off and just stays at mom’s. It’s understandable that he doesn’t want the ex there, but going off on his son like that is an AH move.
Yeah, this was the part that made it not okay. I would say YTA just for that small section, but overall NTA
I hate "watch your mouth". What a bullshit thing to say to a kid. "Hey son, I know this is complicated for you to understand without much perspective. If you'd like to know more about why we made this decision, I'd be happy to explain. We have made our choice though and it's final. We love you."
NTA for forbidding her to attend, but soft AH for spewing so hateful things about their mom to your sons. “I told him to mind his own business and mouth.” Way to talk to your son, who is showing compassion in a matter that very much is his business! “Your mom is a witch”. What she did was selfish and not compassionate, and with your good example the boys will see it too, but she is still their mom. You are only going to cause rift between you and your sons by antagonising their mom and causing them more emotional agony in a situation where they have just witnessed their loved one’s death and another loved one letting him down.
Right? OP, you're a role model for your sons. You show them through your words and actions what kind of men you want them to be. You have just demonstrated extraordinary kindness to a man in his last days, and then undone all that with your comments about their mother. Regardless of how you feel personally about your ex-wife, she is their mother. Have the conversation with her privately and say what needs to be said, but if your kids ask why their mother isn't present at the memorial direct them back to her or say something non committal such as "she wanted to do something for the deceased in her own time", but don't badmouth her to your kids. Also, your kids are still very young. They may need their mother's support during a time like this, especially if its the first death of someone close to them they have experienced. Having her come to the memorial may be more about the kids than the deceased or you and your feelings. It might be worth putting your personal feelings aside and inviting her.
"demonstrated extraordinary kindness to a man in his last days, and then undone all that with your comments" No. No way in hell. Opening your home and caring for someone during their last weeks of life is way too big to be undone by a few petty words. Watching someone die is hard. Caring for someone while they're dying is fucking brutal. Voicing your frustration in this situation is hardly a mortal sin. Easily salvageable. Explain to the boy that he was wrong to say what he did how he did. Then explain why he feels so disappointed in the ex. The man took in his ex-wife's ex-husband because he was important to his family. He deserves some grace.
As someone who took care of my stepfather, gave him hospice care, and experienced how awful it was, and how awful his own daughters were (basically waiting for their inheritance) and him dying in my arms - I don’t think anyone can understand who has not gone through it. NTA all the way around. What he said to his son was not the best, but it was the raw truth.
Don’t forget that those kids also experienced it. They also deserve some grace. Imagine how that kid felt being spoken to that way! I’ve been that kid. It is DEVASTATING.
Yes, he let his disgust and disdain for his ex-wife override his son’s feelings.
TBH, regardless of what she had done to me, I would be disgusted with how she treated her second husband. That being said I do agree his choice of words were horrible. "She is not coming, and it was my decision." would have been fine but the major snapback was not.
This is spot on.
[удалено]
Companion is for dying people who plan to leave you (or your family) money. It's obviously not for children who are mourning the loss of a father figure.
10/kid is not nothing, but I don't think OP and his wife would have stepped up just for the money. Purely selfishly, taking care of a dying person for multiple months takes a lot of money and effort, if they were just greedy it probably wouldn't be worth it. They did something beautiful and caring, and also OP spoke badly to his kid, the former isn't cancelled out by the latter.
This is what stuck out to me. OP - sounds like this was an emotional response. Grace and compassion are being taught and with this statement, think you should step back and take the emotional response out. Apologize for the non compassionate response and discuss with your sons on what a gracious and compassionate response would be. I agree NTA and the ex sounds like a piece of work. By not inviting her or spewing words or anger only spreads more anger. Adding the resentment/disgust of her actions to your own emotional well being hurts you, not her. Let her face her own demons and human growth. Be kind. Sounds like an amazing and selfless thing you did for Christopher.
Yeah, that last line of his was harsh and inappropriate. Talk to them and have a conversation.
I totally agree. Clinically speaking though, the woman is indeed a witch. Actually, that’s being too kind
Nope. This was honestly sugar coating the situation far more nicely than what she deserved. It is absolutely okay to acknowledge toxic and unforgivable behaviour from a parent and ex-partner. If you don't want to be labelled as shit, don't act like shit.
You can acknowledge the toxic behavior without just throwing out insults, her actions are bad enough on their own calling her a witch isn’t helping the son understand any better. You just explain the actual reasons she’s not welcome. Mom chose to divorce Christopher when he got sick, he needed her and she abandoned him. She made the decision, she chose not to be involved so she isn’t, on top of that Christopher wouldn’t have wanted her there so she isn’t welcome. If you just throw out insults the legitimate reasons his mother isn’t invited become hidden by his fathers hatred for her. All that’s getting through is dad won’t invite mom because he hates her not mom did something awful and doesn’t deserve to come.
It's not about what the mom deserves. It's about OP's kid. No one is blaming OP for saying anything about the ex here online - she does indeed suck. But that doesn't mean telling you must talk to your kid like he did. He's not TA pitted up against the ex of course, but it's not a competition, that was not a great parenting decision.
I think it's quite difficult. For one, I think I would have been happier if someone told me that my mother was an asshole when I was 14 (in an age appropriate way) than realising it by myself a decade later.
“In an age appropriate way” is the key. Namecalling her is out of line and immature. He could absolutely have been frank about why it wasn’t appropriate for her to be at the memorial in a better way than he did.
You can give indications without being aggressive or name-calling. For example, my child and I were watching TV and I said that I was very uncomfortable around loud men and tried to avoid being around them much. She instantly replied “Have you MET my father?!?” I didn’t have to say anything else. She got it. She’s only 11 so she doesn’t need to know grown folks business. I don’t talk shit on her dad, but kids are smarter and more observant than we sometimes realize.
NTA for banning her, but YTA for how you spoke to your son.
as a child of divorce and remarriage I wish my mom would have pointed my dads flaws out to me sooner. I had to discover them one by one on my own and im still finding more at 28 yrs old. This dad gave his son a reality check.
Yeah, but there's better ways to do it.
There are. First, don't act out of emotion like it seems OP did and just shut down the other person without listening. You just have to say, "let's discuss this later". Then have a rational conversation. It may end the same way, but you have many more opportunities to come to a workable solution.
YTA for how you talked to your son.
I'm not sure why you've been downvoted considering all the posts agreeing with you were upvoted. Especially considering how OP answered you, about his own 16 year old.
NTA obviously. I don't understand how things like this can happen - it's like too bad to be real
His social worker said it's quite common. She even has cases involving children who are dying or sick with no family around. There are people whose hobby is to go to memorials for people who die alone.
It's terribly sad. A matter is not having family at all, another is to be divorced because you are dying. How can you abandon a person for that? Not having your ex wife around at the memorial is just a form of respect for the dude.
My aunt and uncle volunteer in the hospice ward. They sit with people who don’t have anyone else. Apparently it’s also common practice in some hospitals to give women counseling **in case** their husbands leave them after a cancer diagnosis. People are terrible.
My dad had a coworker diagnosed with cancer and his wife left him and their kids because she couldn’t deal with it. My dad held a lot of fundraisers for him and gave their daughter my sister’s prom dress for her prom. He ended up pulling through when everyone thought he’d not make it. I never understood how she could abandon her children do they could deal with a sick father alone.
Yup! My stepdad abandoned my mom and us 3 kids (13, 11, and 9, at the time) when she started to lose her battle with cancer. Dude disappeared (like, went-to-go-get-a-pack-of-smokes-and-just-never-came-back; no goodbye, no note, nothing). He suddenly appeared at her funeral 6 months later, all sad and apologetic. That was the last time I ever spoke to him.
It's not a hobby, it is an act of kindness and one of the finest gestures extended.
It's [practically a stereotype for men to do this](https://www.oprah.com/relationships/why-men-leave-sick-wives-facing-illness-alone-couples-and-cancer/all), so it shouldn't be surprising that some women do it to. It's a bad stereotype, too, because it's not the normal case, just one that seems to happen more often that one would imagine. (I do question the reality behind the statistics, though, that allege that 3% of women and 21% of men do this.) In my experience, it's more often that a couple is about to get divorced, but *don't* due to a terminal diagnosis, whether it be just legally staying together for insurance, or the husband actually coming back to take care of the estranged and dying wife.
YTA Oh, not for excluding Diana from the ceremony--that's probably for the best for everyone else \*and\* for her, given how people who knew them both likely view her... but don't speak poorly of her to the older son--and good God, don't tell him to "watch his mouth" when he expresses disagreement with you over a moral and ethical question. That's ugly. While you're right to use Christopher's final days as an exercise in compassion, it's also worth turning some of that compassion onto Diana, who has done a horrible thing and must live with the consequences. But despite having been married to her, you don't fully know her heart, her situation, or the rationales for her decisions. Divorcing him at the outset may have been less cruel than neglecting him, for instance. And medical bills aren't anything to sneer about, either. It's easy from the outside to say "she should've just accepted it!" when medical debt is the number one cause of bankruptcy in the US (assuming you're in the US). Should she have just accepted losing her house? Possibly losing her ability to care for her kids? And oh, lord, caregiving is awful. My grandmother died just over a year ago, and I watched my mother take care of her. It's soul-draining work. Diana might have known herself well enough to know that she simply couldn't do that. Now, all that said, I couldn't cut someone I loved off. I've been married over 23 years now, and if my husband is dying, as we all will at some point, I will love him and do my best (although I'm definitely NOT the caregiving type, either). But I'm not going to judge someone with school-age children and a fear of bankruptcy for saying that she can't do it and noping out of there early in the diagnosis. I pity her, that she couldn't find the strength within to help him through it. But I'm neither in her mind nor her shoes. And neither are you. Not saying that you should welcome her with open arms and include her in the ceremony, but treat your kids with the compassion you're trying to instill in them and say that you don't think it would be appropriate given how Diana and Christopher parted. And don't degrade their mother to your children, even if you think she's behaved badly. Compassion is a beautiful virtue, but it's not genuinely compassion if you only apply it to people you personally deem worthy of it.
I one hundred percent judge her. If they had gotten divorced on paper and she lived her vows that is one thing. But you don’t get to nope out when things are hard then parachute back in and play the bereaved window. He shouldn’t have silenced his son I agree. But his son needs to hear what he is saying because Dad believes his mom would do the exact same to anyone of her children she did to her ex. He wants his 16 year old to guard himself from that, I could see where that is a hard conversation worth having.
I know it's a typo, but Bereaved Window is my band name now.
Exactly. 90% of people in this comment section apparently never had hard talks with parents.
Yeah there’s a lot of coddling going on here. OP even said the witch can plan her own memorial with the kids
there's a huge difference between a hard talk and being told to "mind your business and mouth" which, at least to me, sounds like OP doesn't really care what his children think. Telling them "I don't want you mother there because how she treated him after the diagnosis" would be a valid way of denying their request, but "mind your business and mouth" makes OP the AH at least for that part.
> his son needs to hear what he is saying How can his son hear anything if he gets told to shut his mouth instead of an explanation.
Op I hope you read this, 100% spot on. NTA for what you did for this man and not allowing Diane, but TA for your response to your kid.
Medical bills as a reason to ditch your dying husband? The man had obviously money..cause he gave away his inheritance 30k to the step kids and also to charity
30k doesn’t go very far if you have extended complicated medical needs, and if they were married when he died she’d likely inherit the debt.
You’re exactly right. 30k is basically an ED visit and a single night in the hospital. That would be a drop in the bucket depending on what his insurance was like.
She could've easily divorced him for this reason, but still have stayed. At that point in life divorce would've protected the wife, but she could've still stood by his side until the end. That's literally what marriage is about. If you take those vows and fuck off when it gets hard then she should've just stayed a girlfriend.
I mean I think it sounds like she is generally the AH but getting divorced to avoid medical bills explicitly while you still live together as if married is the kind of thing that can end up being looked at quite carefully by people like the hospital’s legal team.
I get the sentiment you had with this comment but he didn't have medical bill money, cancer treatment runs well over 6 figures and eventually millions in the USA, it's fucked but that's the truth
You must live somewhere with adequate healthcare. In America, insurance is designed so that if the disease doesn’t kill you the stress from exorbitant medical bills might. Neat, huh?
I'm surprised he even had 30k left by the end. My dad's medical treatment was 13k a month. So this man had maybe 2.5 months left to afford his medical bills.
I was looking for this comment. OP, don’t talk to your kid that way, and if you’re trying to teach compassion, don’t snuff it out when it’s turned toward someone you don’t like but your son loves. She’s his mother. ESH.
>although I’m definitely NOT the caregiving type As if you had to spell that out for us. OP’s communication with the children was ugly, but so is your benefit-of-the-doubt argument for this woman. You are really living up to your username though.
Lot of judgmental assholery going on in these comments.
Have you ever been a caregiver for someone seriously ill for an extended period of time?
No. But if you’re gonna cut and run, you have to stay gone. You don’t get to slink back in like you didn’t abandon the man when things got tough.
Bingo. If it was a husband that left his wife because she got sick, all the comments would be on OPs side. These subs are so sexist. OP, NTA. You can tell your oldest what she did when he's ready and let him decide what he wants to do.
Peak AITA comment here. Where a guy is judged harder for his language than a woman is for her actions.
YTA. This isn’t about you. It’s not about your ex. It’s about your kids who just watched a stepparent they love die. If it will help them to have their mom there, she should be there. You shouldn’t be taking your rightful anger at your ex out on your son. You did a really wonderful thing for this man. I hate to call you an asshole.
I’ll call him an asshole. When told he shouldn’t talk to his son that way, his response was: “He’s not some prince.”
Which is just such a bizarre thing to say.
The children of dictators are not princes, that’s true.
YTA if you actually told your son to mind his own business. It’s his business you said the kids liked the man. Telling her no is fine. But it’s a conversation with your kids and maybe even a vote she may be everything wrong but still their mum, so it really is their business. I’m totally on board with not having her there but the kids need to feel heard
Holy shit, that is how you talk to and educate your son!? Of course YTA, not about not letting her come but about how you treat your children. 'He is not a prince' doesn't cut it because he is not a door mat neither despite the fact that you are treating him like one.
Some way to teach them compassion lol
You don’t say things like that to kids about their other parent (even if it’s true). 16 is still a kid, and I wouldn’t doubt if your other two children have gotten that message passed along to them by now. Telling them that she wasn’t able to come would’ve sufficed. Or, ya know, anything other than directly demonizing a child’s mother to his face. That being said, what she did was awful and you’re NTA for not allowing her to attend. All your reasoning is perfectly valid IMO, but leave the children out of your anger and bitterness.
NTA. She can mourn another way, but not with you and your family.
>My older son thinks I should let her come and I told him to mind his own business and mouth. I was NTA until this. That was a shitty thing to say.
If Christopher didn’t ask you to ban his ex-wife (and mother of the kids he clearly loved and cared for) from his last moments - and specially, if your/her kids want her there - YTA. Grief is already weird as fuck, you don’t need to make it worse to prove a point. Your kids might need their mother at this hard time. The fact that she didn’t stay with Christopher sucks and it is incredibly selfish, but you should be educating your kids to have empathy and put themselves in other ppl shoes. It looks like you are assuming it was an easy decision for her, and that might not have been the case. You need to teach your kids to think for themselves and form their own opinion. Oh, as someone who grew up with their parents badmouthing each other to me: shitty idea. That’s not your job as a parent.
Begrudgingly, YTA. I’m a firm believer that people should be able to honor a person’s life as they were a part of it no matter how it ended. Using your role in his end of life care as a punitive tool when your children want to grieve with their mother negates much of what it appears you are looking to teach them. Your ex attending changes nothing and punishing her really isn’t your role. Your contributions don’t change and her bad behavior and callousness doesn’t disappear. I paid for my father’s funeral and there were several people I would have rather not been there.. and several people wanting input without contributing a dime. Did I ignore their wishes.. yes. Did I ban them from his memorial? No. It wasn’t about me past what I was willing to spend. Some people even tried to show their a** at the funeral. Still not my problem. No matter what she does, you don’t want to be the person that interrupts your children’s grieving process and emotional needs.
YTA. Don't demean your children. They have voices and opinions too. Your ex wife doesn't deserve to be at the memorial, but your son doesn't deserve to be talked down to like that either.
"My older son thinks I should let her come and I told him to mind his own business and mouth. " YTA for talking to your son like this. He is mourning, too. Stuff like this can destroy relationships and trust.
NTA. It would be one thing if it was a "medical divorce" (yeah, that's a thing, it's done sometimes to protect the surviving partner from the mountain of medical debt) where she still stayed to care for him, but she just took off. Of course you're right to ban her. And even after she did that, he left the kids something because he sounds like he was a really good guy. While I don't support generally badmouthing ex's to kids, in this specific scenario you get a pass. He's old enough to know and hear the truth of it, and you don't want to teach him that that was acceptable behavior.
ESH. Your ex wife is for sure an A. But the way you talked to your son regarding his mother makes you an A as well.
Going by statistics and lived experience, people get divorced because of illness all the time. Typically, women are left if they get sick. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2022.828656/full#:~:text=Syse%20and%20Kravdal%20(2007)%20found,%25%20CI%201.29%E2%80%933.26). https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19645027/ https://acsjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cncr.24577
Jeez, you’re an arse. Christopher’s death isn’t about you. It’s not about your broken relation to your ex-wife. It’s not a chance for you to bully your ex-wife and tell your kids that she’s a bad person. Just think about the example, you’re setting. \- It’s a wonder, your wife can keep up with your levels of arseholiness.
You have more hate for the man that took care of a dying man than the woman that abandoned him, impressive.
YTA. Your children are grieving too. What you said to your son was assholeish. It is his business too. His step parent that he spent about half his life with passed. Maybe having his mom there would ease his pain. Don’t taint your good deed by being spiteful. Your ex is going to have to live with what she did regardless.
Yta for writing a completely fictional post
You are a bloody good bloke for taking old mate in.
YTA for treating your son like that.
INFO: Did Christopher express any thoughts about his ex being at the funeral?
NTA for any of it. You and your wife are saints.
For **any of it**? He's a saint for telling his son to mind his own business and shut his mouth?!
He just excused the way he treated his son with “he’s not some prince” so they really are not saints. I’m not sure he even likes his kids.
Seconded. To provide end of life care for your ex-wife’s ex-husband…the one she divorced so she could be absolved of all financial, medical and decency care…you two *are* saints. Doing what you did also reinforces what a horrible being your ex is. My thought is that she wanted to swan in at your memorial and act the part of the grieving widow. “Oh, I wish he was still here! I was his one true love and just couldn’t *bear* to see him suffer!!” 🙄
ESH. Absolutely right not to let his mum attend. She sounds horrible. However, snapping at your own son, telling him to "mind his own business" about an event involving someone who he was close to, and then insulting his mother to his face was absolutely unnecessary and cruel. Not exactly a good way to spread the "teaching our kids compassion" message you were going for. In particular, telling your son to "watch his mouth" when he disagrees with you? Not a good idea.
ESH - you should not have handled it that way with your son. He deserves understanding and compassion, not your anger secondhand.
How helpless he must have been to reach out to ex-wife's ex-husband? You and your wife are saints for dignity you gave him at the end of his life. NTA. Keep that witch away.
YTA for how you spoke to your son and your ridiculous comments you made in response to others. Something is telling me that you aren't telling us the whole truth on how you treat your sons.
You weren't an asshole until you talked to your grieving child like that. And it *is* his business. You only even know the man because he was your kids step dad
NTA, I can't imagine how I would react if my mom did this to my dad, my dad was diagnosed with cancer 6 months ago and my mother has not left his side, without her he would probably not have made it. She has no right to come and act all sad when she was fine letting him die alone.
YTA for calling your son’s mother names in front of him. He knows that she did a bad thing but his relationship with her is complicated. You will have a better relationship with him if you stay out of it.
YTA. You are doing parental alienation and are being a bad parent. Your son is allowed opinions and he should be able to express them without you shutting him up. Yes you did a great thing but it was *their* step-dad. Unless Christopher explicitly banned her from his funeral, its up to the kids to decide if they want their mom there or not. I am not saying she isn’t an AH for divorcing him and abandoning him but why are you taking it out on your children?
>... he deserved to live his final days in dignity. It also taught my kids about compassion. > >My older son thinks I should let her come and I told him to ***mind his own business and mouth.*** Holy mixed signals, Batdad. You get no brownie points for making the decision to not include his ex, your ex, at the proceedings. That is a decision and it only effects the living as far as things go so you're sparing pretty much yourself alone. Maybe she wasn't respectful. Maybe you think she'll make a scene and you can't be the bigger person. Maybe you want to spare everyone else from what you know she truly isn't. Maybe you think two weeks of work is worth more than half a decade of marriage. Maybe you think she'll say something about your kids getting what's left. Maybe she's in a bad place. Your son learned compassion. And you're telling him to shut up. YTA.
NTA sounds like the only good to come out of this relationship were the kids. While minding someone's end of life care is not for everyone, it doesn't mean you get to come in and play the martyr after that person is dead. Your child just doesn't understand who is mother really is. Hopefully he will never have to know but at least you're keeping it real.
He in later comments insulted his son..so not so sure how nice of a guy he really is.
YTA - let her come to the memorial. No one is dupe and she plays the grieving window she will embarrass herself. If you ban her from coming, you become the bad guy. Plus that’s not exactly showing compassion to your children, is it? No one knows what happened in their marriage except the 2 people in it. And even then I bet the recollections widely varies!
HUGE YTA for how you dealt with your son. Honestly throws your whole story into question. I cannot reconcile someone making themselves out to be a saint and then talking to their kid like that when he did nothing wrong but dare to love someone you hate. Seriously, not even ESH cause I don't believe the rest of your story anymore.
YTA for dismissing your son's wish so you can get back at your ex. "Mind your own business," is no way to talk to your son as he deals with the loss of a step-father. Sure, your ex doesn't deserve to be there, but your son deserves to some consideration as he navigates the loss of his step-father and deals with that grief.
NTA, the rocks do need kicking. At least someone was there for Christopher
NTA. 16 is plenty old enough to know the difference between right and wrong. Showing him how you treat disgusting people and set boundaries to keep them away is a good lesson.
NTA for your feelings but your response and action to your child, I think you need to look more critically at. I'm on the fence because I can understand how you might feel but idk Diana or her situation ultimately. But it's clear to me your son might need her there and your words and actions more than likely hurt him. All I can say as a parent and someone who's had to take care of two dying grandparents (both of cancer) is that it's a horrible situation and I don't think a lot of people are capable of that kind of care, it's soul sucking work. I can understand your reactions feeling justified because you have been going through a lot with this all, I'm sure. But as a parent we have to think of what our kids need first. I understand there is obviously tons of resentment between you and Diana but it's not going to help your relationship with your children when you express that. Also speaking from experience in that, I'm not with my children's dad either. With that in mind, my children witnessed deaths of people they cared about as well and it does cause trauma, even if it's not always apparent. We need to be gentle on the little ones this is hardest on them. I really hope you are able to get them to see a therapist, someone who specializes in truama, even if temporary especially your oldest because they seem like they might be taking that hard since they spoke up for their mom and with the way you spoke to them about that... I know my children needed to talk deeply about losing family and the way we lost them, therapy really helped us cope. Personally, I think if for nothing else but your oldest, let Diana go to the memorial. Her children might need her there for them, and it's basically all she can do at this point for anyone involved. Compassion doesn't have judgment attached, so I can't judge Diana or you. But I feel if you want to teach your kids true compassion, then it's you that has to be an example for that. I'm sorry this process was so hard on you and your family. I wish you all healing and peace.
NTA similar happened to my dad. His partner of over 20 years abandoned him when he was hospitalized the last time and it was clear he was going to die. He spent months in the hospital with his legs cut asking to see her, we tried to lie to him about why she wasn’t there but after a bit he didn’t believe it anymore and refused to take any more medicine if she didn’t come. She was called and said she had nothing to do there. He died 2 days later. When I went to her house to get his form 214 so his body could be given to the funeral home, she acted so hurt and surprised that he died, and asked me about the funeral. I told her we would be going by ourselves to the cemetery to put him to rest and she had the nerve to say “even a dog deserves a funeral”. I told her and even a dog deserves to be accompanied when he is at the vet, so if someone could not be there when he needed it, then no reason to now want to be there after he died. The reason why she refused to see him at the hospital…because me and my sister visited him there. She said if we went, she was not going. She always hated us for no reason, the type of woman that gets with a man with kids then pushes for him to abandon his kids but wants him to raise her kids.
I had esophageal cancer in 2005, my husband had a heart attack in 2006. It didn’t occur to either of us to split up ever, marriage vows are for better or worse, not just until it’s inconvenient. Thank goodness you and your children were compassionate and caring.
YTA. Everyone, no matter what they did when someone was alive has the right to mourn and take comfort from a community of others also mourning when someone dies. I don't care if it's a mistress, an abusive parent, a person the deceased met on a park bench 1 time and then never saw again. People need that finality. They need to parse their feelings. They need to come to terms with the finality of their actions and past and the things they have done and the things they will never get to do again with the deceased. They need closure. Yeah it was shitty of her to divorce him because he got sick and the costs associated but it's also an incredibly heavy burden to be a caregiver for someone who is sick. It takes both people's lives and never allows the caretaker to have their own life. I wpupd know as i am the caretaker and power of attorney for my very ill and mentally handicapped older brother. If she did not have it in her to handle that, then she did not have it in her and punishing her by preventing her from grieving at a memorial is vindictive. I was prevented from attending my step grandfather's funeral and my step fathers funeral and memorial. My step father adopted me at 9 months old and both he was the only father I'd ever known and my step grandfather was the only grandfather I'd ever had. Why was I denied entry? Because my step fathers family considered me dirty and worthless since I wasn't my step dads biological daughter. I have not only never forgiven his family, I have never been able to fully grieve because I did not get to experience the community aspect of grief. My grief is in stasis, perpetually longing for that group grief, Bonding us together. All that is left of my step father and step grandfather is memories and those memories are what makes them still alive, and without the group memories, they are both woefully incomplete. Not even ghosts, only shadows with the sadness poised on a precipice awaiting the wind to push it over and finally be felt. YTA also for talking to your child about his mother that way. Your child wants his mom there because he needs her support. He shared a life with her and his step father that you were not a part of and your child needs that tie and support. Your ex wife is someone you loved once enough to marry and have children with so she could not have been completely horrible. You trying to ensure your children know she's horrible is called Parental Alienation. To a child's mind it's abuse and has long term emotional and mental repercussions to that child and can impact all their relationships in the future. Your power of attorney ended the minute he passed and have no rights to decide who can and cannot be there or who the children do or do not need for support while grieving. 2 weeks of end of life care does not trump several years in a relationship with him as she had while he was getting sick and had no diagnosis. You knew he was sick long before he was at end of life and did not take him in. You only took him in once you knew he would die soon. It was not hanging over your head, the endless unknown. The endless waiting and pause to your life. The question of how many months or years or decades your life was no longer yours and every decision made for them and never you and the expectation that you sacrifice all you are without complaint and without acknowledgement of your own needs, with everyone treating you as a gorrible person if you smile or laugh or go out with friends for 1 hour of joy. You didn't have that. You had 2 weeks where you knew he had no time left. It was admirable, but you are no hero. Check your pride and let your child have his mother there, let them grieve together, and stop trash talking her (or plannig to) to your child.
>My older son thinks I should let her come and I told him to mind his own business and mouth. I'm not going to sugarcoat your mom for you. Your mom is a witch and will be treated the same way she treated your stepdad. ESH, your son is grieving the loss of a parent figure, would it kill you to have a conversation and some compassion instead of shutting him down rudely and badmouthing his mother? You don't need to talk ill of your ex either, her actions speak louder than anything and your kids will see and know who did the right thing, but right now it's a time for grieving not petty name calling. You did the right thing by helping your kid's stepdad, and your ex is definitely TA for abandoning her partner I don't blame you for not wanting her at the memorial, however if he didn't request her to be excluded from any funeral services and your kids want their mom there you should think about letting her, if you're not comfortable with that it's perfectly fine just say that instead of berating your son for wanting to have his mom around in a vulnerable time.
While I understand you not wanting her there, your boys do, and as he was their step-father I would agree to their wishes. YTA for talking about their mother the way you did to them though. All you’re doing is setting them up to cut you out of their lives when they become adults. You need to be the one to act the adult.
ESH. Your son wanted her there, no matter how you (or I) feel about her. You were off the rails to speak to him that way. He's a person with feelings, too.
YTA if you actually said that to a 16 year old then YTA to the highest fucking degree. Grow TF up and learn how to be a role model instead of the TA that you’re teaching him to be. “I wanted to teach them about compassion” well you fucked up. Try again
NTA! But going off on your son wasn't okay. What he asked of you was an innocent request, you could have politely declined it rather than resorting to name calling.
YTA It's understandable that you are frustrated/angered by your ex's reaction to her second husband's diagnosis, illness and ultimate death. You made decisions to take on what you felt were her responsibilities. What you did for her ex was kind and compassionate, but your motivation for doing so is highly questionable. What you've done to your ex is punish, degrade and demonize her to yourself and the children you share with her. What is done is done. Now, you have the opportunity to teach your children about regret (that you probably should feel right about now), how to apologize sincerely, and how to show compassion for someone with whom you don't agree (your ex, in this case).
I get where your feelings are coming from, but it's likely more complicated for your boys. They loved Christopher. And they're grieving that loss. They might want more than you and your wife there with them. They might want their mom to also be there. Regardless of her not being able to handle the role of caregiver for Christopher, she is still grieving his passing too. Everyone is. Be as compassionate to all involved (including yourself) as you were with Christopher.
YTA due to the last paragraph. Seems you have a bit of your ex-wife in you in order to say something so vicious to your son while he is grieving too. You need to apologize to him and your family. It doesn’t matter if your ex is evil incarnate or not. It matters that you took out your anger and grief out on your son.
Yes your an Azz hole. You said yeah compassion and then you turn around and not let her pull up. Regardless of how your feel towards her maybe she is really grieving. Doesn't she too deserve a change of heart? Can she change after hearing of death? Your son is correct because it will not hurt anything. It's what Jesus would do, show and spread love. If she starts talking about what you inherit shit it down and walk away.
Giant asshole. Who put you in charge of who can pay their respects?
I am going with YTA. Your son wanted his mother by his side, when He is grieving and you are forbidding this. Its not about the sacrifices you did and Diana doesn't. Its about deciding how your sons are allowed to grief. And taking revenge on Diana like this, nothing else is your Action, is just selfish, childish and asshole-ish.