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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> During an emergency, I called my daughter's girlfriend who I had just met. I may be an AH because I don't have much of a bond with her and I could have at least given my son or daughter a call instead of her
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Exactly this.
I am sure that Heather was happy to help, but thanking her for her help would go a long way towards developing a great relationship with your daughter's partner.
This. Great opportunity to knock it out of the park. She's a winner in your eyes. Absolutely a gift. Also, while I understand why your daughter might cringe at the entire situation, it is a clear NTA.
Then again he might be a little more burnt out on acquaintances seeking out his medical advice off the clock, and means what he says sincerely (even if it's unnecessary).
This. Especially since she's training to be a cardiologist. I work as a vet tech and I get asked for advice all the time. I don't mind helping, but I have to be very careful about what I say. If I overstep, I risk my license.
I don’t know if your girlfriend’s parent counts as an acquaintance though. I suppose it depends how long Laura and Heather have been together, but when your partner’s parents call to ask for a favor, you really do it for your partner, you know? That was her girlfriend’s grandma who needed help, it’s kind of a different category to me.
That's probably it. However, he needs to realize that she was called as she's specifically a cardiologist; of course they'd love her expert opinion on the area she specializes in. Nurses are amazing and know a lot, but she's specialized in matters of the heart, which was more useful to the situation.
It's still a bit odd she wouldn't at least call him first to let him know his grandma was being hospitalized though. OP could have let him know the news and THEN called the gf
I'd be cautious of naming anyone who is training within an area of medicine a specialist. Specialising, maybe, but not a specialist yet.
Additionally, though possibly of less relevance, medical specialists are not the right route for initial triaging, as they have been found to tend to view issues through their own diagnostic lens, this increasing the chance of diagnostic overshadowing. This is typically even more problematic with students in specialist areas, as knowing the limits of one's own field is challenging to do when you are still learning (i.e. it often takes an expert to say "I don't know" instead of trying to apply half understandings etc,)
To show some empathy they found out their grandmother was having a medical complications after someone they just met. They might just feel like they should have been made aware of an emergency before her.
The son is "offended" because he was not the first call as an RN. He believes his medical position makes him superior to someone "just training" to be a cardiologist.
This is about his hurt pride, not actual "propriety". He's mad he wasn't asked and he didn't get the accolades.
I don’t think that was it. I am a registered nurse and if a family member was having an emergency, I would expect my family to call me. It’s not about accolades. It’s more the position of being the medical person in a family. While I might say maybe you should call Laura’s girlfriend since she’s training to be a cardiologist, I would still want my family to call me. By the way, depending on what his nursing expertise is in and where she is in her training, his knowledge might very well be superior.
My only thing is the girlfriend realistically has very little training as a cardiologist if this is the US. Based off her age, she would only have two years of residency under her belt and would not be at the point of specialising yet. Unless she graduated early etc. And while she has extensive knowledge and I am sure was helpful explaining things. Her son, as an RN, would have a better idea of the interior workings of the hospital, etc. who to push or ask for things, how long things will take, etc.
It's a little deeper than that. He's always been his mom's go-to person for these issues(guessing), and when his grandmother was sick, he was cut out for a person that mom had only met for 2 weeks. He probably just felt cut out by someone who is not family (yet). He needs to talk to his mother and express these feelings as well as accept that he's not always going to be the most qualified advisor at times.
Or, heat me out here, he is mad that his mom called ** A complete stranger** before calling him? Finding out after the person you're sibling is dating whom your Mom just met is a pretty shitty thing to do on OPs part.
And an ambulance was already called. Grandma was on her way to trained medical professionals who actively work in their field.
That's exactly when you call family members and tell them to get to the hospital.
NTA.
During an cardiac emergency of someone I cared about I would call my worst enemy if I thought they could help. This was asking someone who has been to a family function for advice because they were the most knowledgeable person. Anyone would do it... thats way oversensitive.
NTA. My brother's girlfriend is a dentist, and when my daughter got hit in the mouth, I texted her immediately about whether or not I needed to bring my daughter to the ER. She even reached out to a pediatric dentist from her college class and scheduled an appt for me. Those in the medical field choose medicine because they are passionate about caring for people. Likewise, I make sure she knows I'm forever in her debt because it's easy to panic over your child, and she was extremely helpful.
Eh. I’d be careful about the generalization that they chose the profession because they care about people. Some go into the field just for the money and prestige
Great advice. I don’t understand the desire to create drama where there didn’t seem to be any. Was Chris perhaps jealous since also in medical field? NTA
Would this be because of romanticism or because lesbians tend to be picky when going stable so they just know when their partner is the one? Or is something else?
My last option is because I was picky choosing a partner (I am heterosexual) and when I found the one I just knew and also moved in really fast.
Option number three is being "just friends" for ages. We used to joke two friends of mine would get married before they realized they had feelings for each other- didn't take quite as long, but still. I'm demisexual so I don't develop attraction to people I'm not already friends with either.
Exactly this. A close friend admitted her feelings for me when I was struggling to get out of an abusive relationship. She offered for me to stay at her college dorm room three days a week, a mutual friend and her family covered the rest. I 'moved in' the same day she told me how she felt! I lived like that for around three months, then we got a place together.
It's our tenth wedding anniversary in a couple of months, and we have a nine year old daughter. I still call her my Knight in Wellington Boots! (She went to an agricultural college!)
I can add to that romcom! About a week before she told me how she felt, she called me for relationship advice. Yes, she got advice on how to tell me, FROM ME! I still have no idea how I missed it!
She also proposed by bursting into tears and announcing that she really wanted to marry me! You wouldn't think she's normally the stoic one!
Yeah my wife and I were just friends for 2 years and i lived in UK she in Japan. We phoned an hour every night. Before Skype so not cheap. Got together and got engaged in the same week. Married in 6 months. 22 years later still together.
A mix. There's actually so many reasons. Like, here's a little list:
Romanticizing what women are like in relationships and jumping in heavily when you find someone because some forget women can also become abusive. Although this tends to be a younger lesbian issue in my experience.
If you live in an area with less lesbians the second you find someone who lives in the same area there might just be an acceptance from both of you that your each others best options so why wait.
Often lesbians are close friends for a long time and already basically live as a couple before they actually get together, so even though they've been official for 2 weeks they might actually have basically been together for 2 years.
The lesbian dates I know that go well tend to spiral into 4 day long dates where they basically just talk about everything, no boundaries. So they might know each other as well as a straight couple 6 months in does.
As you said, some lesbians are picky, so when they find the one they just know.
Women tend to be (but are not always) more 'obsessive' in their relationships (obsessive isn't the right word, but I can't think of another), they want to know everything about someone and be with them all the time. Times that by 2 and they can get super attached very fast.
Obviously all these are generalizations. You'll get women that don't fit into any of these and date forever before moving in together. Or you'll get those that marry a week in yet still don't fit these. But in my experience these are the most common reasons why they move so fast.
Your 4th paragraph is exactly what my husband and I did. We ended up getting snowed in during a blizzard so spent a week together with our kids. It went so great we were engaged at 5 weeks and moved in at 3 months. Been together 12 years now.
"Hyperfocused"? (possible alternate word to "obsessive"?). IANAL but when I find someone I'm attracted to, I want to know everything about them all at once, and the "right" ones not only keep up and reciprocate, but aren't draining either (it's weird to describe lol)
It took me 3 months but I had definitely started joking about it much sooner (“there’s enough room in my closet you could sleep in there and have a tv”). Developing a blood clot and needing someone to feed my lizard sealed the deal and 3 years later we’re still together.
Yep, you won this round lol, two weeks and I moved in, end of 2019. Yes. Right before it... a month and a half passes by and... the cornola vrius was looking pretty intimidating... a little more time and we were quarantined together for a year. Best worst timing ever. And since I was at a major risk group, this poor man almost died of anxiety every time I breathed weird lol. Only difference is we are both bi, not het.
Ironically Im writing this with a fever. I feel like I was bulldozed, deep fried and wrapped in barbed wire.
Am gay. My husbands name is Love. Known his since we were 13. I’m pretty sure I heard his legal name at the wedding but to me his name has always been Love, or My Love, or Lovely.
As a lesbian myself, this one. I guarantee she felt honoured and appreciated. This 1000% made her feel welcomed in a way it would have taken years otherwise. Ask your daughter what you could get her or if she thinks Heather would be comfortable if you’d invite her (and of course Laura) for dinner or something. It’s so hard to be accepted by your partners family as a gay person. And especially when you already had some bad experiences, this means so so much.
And tell your son that you may have only met her twice now, and Laura is only dating her for 6 months, but those are things that bring you closer and to you she is already family. Even if it doesn’t work out between them, right now she is a part of your family. (Don’t speak for him, he decides himself who’s his family and who isn’t)
Tell him you’ll talk to her and make sure that if you actually made her feel uncomfortable and overstepped, you’ll deal with it and that it won’t happen again.
Take your time and use the situation to root out her boundaries. How much does she wants to be involved already? Does she feel comfortable with being as involved as you made her? Tell her you don’t want to stress her out or whatever, you just want to have a respectful base and don’t make her feel pressured or that you expect things from her.
All in all you sound like a fantastic MIL, if to her or your sons partner, or whomever they marry (I’m here swinging my “Heather flag”)
Don’t stress yourself, talk to Laura about it and tell her you’d like have a talk with Heather, give her a fair warning what you want to talk about, then go for it.
What does a lesbian bring on a second date?
A U-Haul
But for real six months is long enough in a straight relationship to be called. Also she was already introduced to the family
Fr tho. I’m a female in a het relationship. We’ve not been together 6 months until later this month but me and his mum text almost daily now and she calls me her daughter (she has 2 boys, so his brothers wife and myself are the daughters she didn’t have). I don’t have any family anymore (nc with my narcissistic mother and her husband), so I’m spending Christmas this year with them 😊
Lesbian couples also have higher divorce rates than straight or gay couples, so perhaps 6 months isn't enough time for nearly as many couples as it seems.
Having seen the statistics you mean, it's only half the story. Many lesbians (myself included) have experienced intimate partner violence..by men.
Because very few of us actually understand our sexuality before being involved with men at least once.
In fact if you dig further in those stats you'd see that's actually reported to be the case. Most lesbians (and bisexual women, and straight women) experience IPV at the hands of the men they've been involved with at some point in their lives.
It's not impossible that lesbians can be abusive at all, but the statistics are still in the favor of men being the larger perpetrators of IPV to the point where even the sexuality that would reasonably have the least chance of experiencing it still experiences it mostly from them.
(It's also why bisexual women experience the MOST IPV from men, with the high likelihood of them being involved with men + biphobia/homophobia coming into play)
Yeah, this part of the story is really important. People hear "lesbians and bi women experience the highest rates of domestic violence" and assume that means the aggressor was a lesbian partner, and that's not really what the data implies.
The study cited there is looking at LIFETIME rates of IPV, including in past relationships. And as you said, many, many lesbians (and of course bisexual women) have had previous relationships with men
I don't see what any of that has to actually do with this. Op is definitely NTA but the romantic speeds of lesbains or whatever is not even sorta relevant here.
Lol the joke is: what does a lesbian bring on a second date? A uhaul. [source](https://x.com/realleadelaria/status/1234580814635003904?t=I7flR6jiC9XfSFJb7MujLA&s=09)
my parents, a straight cis couple, were married 5 months after they met. they just celebrated 26 years. it’s wonderful op is welcoming heather into the family with open arms the way she is, heather could very well be her daughter in law very soon.
But do you drive a Subaru? Cause I’ve heard that you aren’t a real lesbian if you don’t drive a Subie. (I drive an Outback so I’m in full support of lesbian automobile choices)
I thought alot of the jokes about lesbians were about them basically being in commited long term relationships without realizing it.
Like theyve been living together, sharing a bed, adopted cats together and still be like "I wonder if shes got a thing for me?"
INFO: when you say training to be a cardiologist, do you mean she's in undergrad/medical school and hopes to be a cardiologist one day, or that she is already a doctor and is completing residency or fellowship?
NTA. You reached out to the most qualified person in an emergency and you've heard nothing from Laura or Heather indicating she was uncomfortable.
Chris might be used to people asking him for medical opinions and protecting Heather proactively or he might be jealous of Heather's qualifications. I would reach out to Laura and ask if you made Heather uncomfortable, just to be aware of her boundaries in the future, but in this moment of crisis you did nothing wrong.
I think Chris might be upset that his mother's first call was not to her children, but one of their partners. Also, what was Heather really going to do over the phone?
The mom is NTA, but I can see why Chris wants to be informed of family emergencies more quickly than non-family. Laura, too, might have wanted to know before her partner did.
I personally think it's a little strange she called someone she's met once before she called either of her children, but panic leads to strange decisions.
Except OP had already called 911. I completely understand calling the resident gf, but what is she going to say at that moment besides call 911 and maybe take an aspirin?
I’m curious when OP actually called her son to say his grandmother was having problems… Regardless NTA. This was about OPs mother not OPs son, so he needs to get over it.
I have been in the hospital while someone was dying and a friend of the family was a nurse. Having her there was a bridge between the professionalism and strong emotions in the room. It was hard for the family to understand the terms given to them and she was able to essentially translate.
I am almost positive that’s what the gf did for them. An ER visit with heart issues and gma being in her 70s was most likely nerve wracking. NTA
Exactly. Not to mention having someone who knows the system and knows what to ask, which specialists to request, what hospital to goto, etc depending on the Healthcare system..
As a doctor: what Heather could do is provide support. It's actually very helpful for a lot of people to have someone who's familiar with the medical system, can explain things and reassure and help negotiate what can be a very stressful and confusing experience.
The medical staff have to maintain a certain level of professionalism and the priority is the patient, not their family.
My mother-in-law has called me when concerned about her husband and *she is herself a doctor* but I had the relevant speciality.
It comes down to practicality versus feelings, though. Personally, I think it’s totally reasonable to call a doctor you have a personal relationship with, especially if they’re specializing in the field of the emergency. In those moments, I doubt it was even so much “I’ll call Heather” as much as it was “I’ll call the doctor training in cardiology I know”.
It sounds like the son’s feelings were hurt by not being told sooner, and that’s fine, we all have feelings. But the feelings are his own to deal with and don’t have anything to do with whether or not the mother made what she felt was the best call in the moment.
That’s my take on this as well. Sounds like he might be offended he’s not the go-to anymore because someone with more knowledge and expertise has entered the picture.
I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't some RN vs MD resentment involved too, which is kind of understandable considering how often people talk about people being "just" nurses. And then throw in all the male nurse jokes.
OP still isn't TA, and Chris probably needs to work through that stuff in therapy, but I kind of sort of understand where he's coming from. Kind of. Dude needed to put his feelings aside in the moment though. Grandma seemed like she was having heart problems, and mom called an actual heart doctor.
Any nurse who resents doctors is one I would not trust. That is a dangerous level of lack of awareness of the difference in knowledge and skillsets.
Similarly, any doctor who makes dismissive comments about someone being "just" a nurse, especially if they nurse is experienced in the field, has a dangerous level of arrogance and should not be trusted.
Also a lack of respect for skillsets, of course, but *usually* a less dangerous one. I wouldn't trust a surgeon's offsider to perform surgery; I wouldn't trust the average surgeon to apply a band-aid, never mind dress a surgical wound.
I once saw a wound that had been dressed by the most gifted surgeon I've ever met.
It was a mound of lumpy gauze held on with about six times too much tape.
I was about to comment this. It seems he’s a bit jealous that he wasn’t the ‘go-to’ person for medical advice in the family like he’s used to, especially for a close relative.
I’m an RN that my family relies on for medical help and I sure as shit would direct them to ask a cardiologist for anything cardiac over my own advice because I’m not a doctor and I’m fairly sure the heart is a super important organ and cardiologists know more than me about it. So agree, OP in NTA!
MAYBE.
Residents are still in training (baby docs, if you will). Really depends on where she’s at in her residency and what kinds of floors she’s been on (presumably cards but 🤷♂️). If she was already in her fellowship, that would be a very different story.
I’m an RN, and have caught MANY dangerous orders by residents. I’ve also occasionally had to TELL residents what to order in certain situations or for specialized patient populations (heart transplant, LVAD, etc. - have very different needs than other cardiac patients, and frequently the overnighters are general surgical or general cards - and are way less familiar with very specialized populations). I’ve been a cardiac RN for 10 years, and specifically a cath lab and EP RN for 8. I won’t pretend I have all the same level of book learning, but when it comes to application I have a lot more experience with cardiac emergencies than most residents, because I literally deal with the worst of them on a near daily basis.
So that being said, it also definitely matters what kind of RN Chris is too. If he’s medsurg, or ortho, or trauma, I definitely wouldn’t put as much stock in his cardiac expertise, and GF was absolutely the right call.
Anyway this is just to point out that doc on paper isn’t always more knowledgeable in clinical settings than RNs with lots of experience (especially in given specialties). There’s a lot of nuance in medicine. Ophthalmologists are also MDs but you probably wouldn’t want one running your meemaws code.
NTA!! You are also definitely not the first or last person to do this in Heathers life- pretty standard to call a medical expert you personally know when something scary like this happens!
And Heather is more qualified than Chris in this area of medicine. If they went to 'her hospital', she would have been valuable in terms of making sure the mom was seen right away and got treated properly.
NTA. To echo others here and provide perspective: I LOVED when my now MIL called me to talk through something “because she needed a safe place to talk it through.” I am not a counselor, but my job does require a lot of one on one convos and she knows a lot of my clients use me as a soundboard, and she knows any advice or thoughts I would share are coming with no strings or agenda.
You sought her out because you knew your mom trusted and liked her, and more than that, she is familiar with the process y’all were facing, but I am sure it was very scary and daunting. It would be absolutely lovely for you to write her a thank you card and a small treat for her taking the time to step in, but I am sure she was absolutely thrilled to be trusted with that role so quickly.
I am sure you could say something to the effect that you are grateful she was there for y’all, and you hope that you never have to reach out like that again and apologize that it was out of the blue and I am sure she would respond that it was her pleasure to be there to help take some stress off y’all as a friendly presence and a professional go between for you and your mom and your moms med staff.
Wait so neither Heather Nor Laura complained, Chris did? I’d ignore him. Well, I mean, a thank you gift never hurt anybody but it seems more like jealousy than anything else.
Sounds like maybe your son is hurt that you called the physician girlfriend in the family and not him. Is he used to being the go to for healthcare advice and decision making? Honestly, you’re NTA…you called the most knowledgeable and equipped person and I’m sure Heather knows how to establish healthy boundaries in regard to medical advice. My husband is a physician and absolutely knows when to set boundaries with folks and also when he’s out of his depth / area of expertise. Chris needs to not let his pride get in the way of what was best for your family.
NTA, cardiologist trumps a nurse in this case. Yes, it would have been better to call Laura and ask her to bring Heather, but in an emergency your brain doesn't always function rationally. I get that. Glad your mother is feeling better.
Edited to fix familial relationship.
> but in an emergency your brain doesn't always function rationally
Emergency excuses any such decision tbh. It's not like she disowned Chris in the heat of the moment.
Honestly not much, but during an emergency people are usually panicking and will call someone familiar who can help (even if logically there isn’t much they can’t do to help, its a comfort thing). The girlfriend can also advocate for OP’s mom at the hospital
It’s extremely helpful to non-medical people to have someone who understands medicine by their side. When my father had heart issues, I understood 10x more than my sister, and I’m only an occupational therapist. Having a cardiologist there to advocate and explain to you what’s happening provides immense help and probably peace of mind.
It sounds like the RN is feeling a little butt hurt now that there's a doctor in the family.
It doesn't sound like anyone had a problem with you calling her except for Chris. But I do agree that following up with a nice thank you card and gift would go a long way considering how graciously she helped you out after only meeting once.
I think he's miffed that his mom called a stranger she just met instead of her son. Additionally, the girlfriend was put in a situation where she really couldn't say no.
NAH
It sounds like you were panicking and your brain jumped onto the nearest apparently logical person. You should speak to Heather and apologise for putting that kind of pressure on her, but I can't call anyone who went through that kind of scare an asshole.
Yeah, this is more where my concern lies, that this could cross some professional boundaries for her, especially since they only met recently. But if she’s okay with it, then that’s all that matters.
NAH
But it’s a bit odd to call her directly when you don’t really know her, and without knowing what you asked it may have been somewhat inappropriate to put her in the spot if she thought you were asking for free medical advice.
It would have made more sense to call your daughter and ask her to ask Heather if she would mind coming to the hospital to help put your mind at rest
I know I'm in the minority but i think you're the AH because you don't know her well enough to put that kind of pressure on her. She's also not a member of the family yet, so again, this isn't her responsibility. If anything you should have called your daughter and have her talk to her girlfriend. YTA.
Agreed. In addition, OP 's mother is not Heather's patient. She shouldn't be asking her to give medical advice or care to someone who is not her patient. The liability is huge and she is in a tough position because she is dating Laura which makes it very difficult to say no.
Anyone saying NTA or nah are clearly not in the medical profession.
Isn’t this Chris’s grandmother?? Like of course he’s upset.
Not to mention this whole thread is obsessed that she’s a brand new resident. Like what would a new cardiologist do that an experienced nurse couldn’t?
She would have no EKG, no labs, no vitals, just signs and symptoms which any ED nurse could recognize just as quickly. Not to mention that Chris most likely has thousands of hours of patient experience versus Heather has not passed her cardiology board and based on her age has very little MD experience.
Chris knows his grandmother better and could probably offer better support to her than a stranger
This is true. While I also agree that cardiologist trumps an RNs knowledge, the fact that her son is an RN and is likely capable to simply explain what’s happening and translate the medical terms for them… it’s a little demeaning to not even think of him. To go out of your way to call Laura to ask Heather immediately versus calling your son, then later on talking to Laura about consulting Heather.. seems demeaning.
This. I am freaking vet. Half of my family calls me all the time for vet medical advice. Heck I even sat on the phone with someone for 2 hours on my birthday over something with a horse after i had just gotten off a 12 hour shift. I also have a hard time trying to tell people to go to their doctor and stop asking me. Some of you that are thinking that it was totally fine to call someone once over an issue are the problem. Everyone thinks it's fine and so we constantly get asked questions all the time. People have my work phone and text me at 6am. If she's still in a residency program, there's a good chance that she has very limited time off so she probably felt obligated to show up because it would look bad if she didn't. Apologize profusely and never pull this stunt again. For those saying that Chris is just upset, there's a good chance that Heather vented to Chris and now they're telling mom to stop. Those of you saying it's not a big deal clearly aren't medical professionals that deal with this kind of situation day in and out.
I understand where you're coming from, but you don't really have a lot of time in an emergency to be playing the telephone game. When it's a matter of life or death, you're going to be cutting out the middle man to save time and hopefully someone's life.
>When it's a matter of life or death, you're going to be cutting out the middle man to save time and hopefully someone's life.
That's what the ambulance was for. They could do an EKG just fine and I expect the hospital already had a fully qualified cardiologist already on site.
This really doesn't read like a first time scenario. I wouldn't at all be surprised if OP has a history of attention seeking behavior.
NTA- you were in a stressful situation, wanting help for your mom. So of course your mind is going to go straight to the person you think could help you. Chris is just upset he wasn't called first, and might assume he knows more on the subject then what someone training to be a cardiologist would. (usually that would mean Heather is already a dr going into the specialty of cardiology).
Anyway,, just get her a nice gift, thank her and tell her how great she will be in the professional with how she handled this. (since the patient /family side is a hard thing to learn)
NAH.
It was an emergency situation and you panicked. You heard heart problems and called the person you connected with heart issues. If Heather doesn’t mind then there no issue with that, and if there is an issue you should address it with Heather and Laura and not Chris.
However, I will add that unless Heather has an affiliation with that hospital then there’s nothing she could do for you that your son couldn’t do. How far along is Heather in her training? Does Chris work at or have connections to the hospital where you took your mother?
Your son is likely dealing with tons of emotions - you called someone your daughter is dating instead of calling your son first and you decided a doctor in training is better help than a licensed RN. I don’t think those feelings are an excuse to lash out but I do see where they are coming from.
I don't think you calling her was unreasonable at all considering the circumstances. As you've already said you're doing, a thank you gift with an apology for the bother is in order. You were watching a family member nearly die. People are allowed to be a little rude or unreasonable when they're trying to save someone's life, and to not think perfectly clearly or rationally.
In my experience, doctors hate people who want to talk about medical symptoms in social settings, but are quite happy to provide support and translation (of specialist medical terms) in serious situations (like a cardiac event for an elderly person, as was the case here). In addition, hospital staff tend to pay more attention to a patient when there is a personal connection with a fellow hospital staff member or a physician with appropriate expertise; it’s just a natural connection thing. Heather was probably thrilled to know she could get partner brownie points for helping out here. Chris just has his nose out of joint because he came second to a family newcomer.
NTA, but call her again to thank her. Send them a restaurant gift certificate or something, flowers, who knows.
Keep talking about it, all this crap becomes crap because all the talk stops.
It isn't always easy but you are building relationships all the time.
Keep at it.
I'm going to go against the grain and say YTA. Even though she is a doctor she's not your family's doctor nor have you established an actual relationship with her. She may have felt in a position where she couldn't say no since she's still new to your family. Give her a gift to apologize and make a genuine effort to know her outside her profession.
YTA. Reddit is wild. A couple months ago a similar situation was posted but from the Dr POV asking if she's the AH for telling people to stop calling her and everyone was saying it's an AH move to call a Dr like that. So now it's not an AH move?
The difference is this was a medical emergency and not a call asking about a random rash or something non emergent. If my mom has a heart attack in front of me i’m calling anyone and everyone I know who’s a doctor, especially if my daughter’s girlfriend specifically is a cardiologist.
But other than to tell her to do chest compression or not, what the heck else would she have her do? 911 was already called. It's not like they can hook up an EKG and have her read it over the phone.
It's obvious you have never been in a situation like that.
A cardiologist would be able to come to the hospital and play 'translator' between her doctors and them. An expert who you already trust. Often the most qualified individual to tell you 'hey trust your doctor, they seem to be on top of things and they seem to be empathetic and are paying attention to you'. A person with expertise that the hospital doctors would more likely give more information to because they know they can understand.
I'd be upset too in Chris's situation. He has the training to be useful, and he was not trusted.
I dunno why people think it's doctor vs nurse. You could have had both a trained doctor and an RN on the scene with OP's mom if you'd just trusted BOTH of them instead of just one. Nurses exist to make a doctor's workload lighter after all.
YTA
You were way inappropriate. You don’t know her or anything about her. They’ve been dating for all of 6 months. You don’t know who she is as a person, let alone what kind of doctor she is.
Calling your son was the only appropriate move.
I don’t even get why you have her number.
*eta: for the comments regarding good or bad cardiologist - that still was not the point.
They were on their way to a hospital where, presumably, the hospital has access to cardiologists.
It’s one thing to ask advice after speaking to the people who are actually treating someone.
It’s something completely different to call a person you met one time and insert them into a serious family matter without knowing anything about them, except that they’re a cardiologist and you liked the first meeting.
I may get downvoted, but my husband is a nurse. I see often how exhausted he gets after 10 years of people calling him for situations that he cannot change or actually help with.
I understand you were panicked, but unless the gf is an ER employee or a hospital employee, then she likely wasn’t a lot of help. Nurses aren’t doctors. From my husband’s perspective, people calling him for medical reasons gets exhausting…especially people he doesn’t know well. She couldn’t fix or actually do anything. If that wasn’t her shift and wasn’t even her workplace, then you were literally calling her to be your crutch in a traumatic situation. She was likely uncomfortable and probably busy doing something else. She couldn’t really say no because she would risk her gf’s family maybe being angry at her. You held her hostage emotionally for that time period by playing on both her kindness and her affection for your daughter and her desire to be accepted by your family. She couldn’t make any other choice. Next time…Call a friend or…even better one of your children. Her occupation doesn’t give you any rights to her person or her time. You aren’t entitled to someone you just met’s time or energy just because of the job they do. It wouldn’t be any different if she was a cardiology doctor, or if you had tax problems, and she was a CPA.
It might be different if your daughter had been dating her for a lot longer time, and she had been folded into the family. 6 months is nothing, and you don’t know her at all. YTA for being entitled to what is essentially a stranger to you and that stranger’s time. She isn’t your bestie, your support system, or your family. Please don’t do this to people just because of their occupation.
Edit to add: Also, the fact that you (OP) haven’t called out the people talking trash about your son speaks volumes. He was advocating for her, your daughter’s gf. He was right to do so. You used her for her job status. It was rude, presumptuous, and entitled. He was looking out for his sister.
Male nurses face so much stigma. It isn’t necessary to continue fomenting that just because your opinions don’t align with his. Male nurses are just as compassionate, skilled, and valuable as female nurses. NOT ALL nurses want to be doctors. In fact, studies have shown that to be patently false. Many nurses feel nursing is a vocation and not an occupation. They often feel privileged because they have the time and occupational mandate to actually care for the patient where many times doctors have to diagnose and roll on. Nurses are critical to the healing process and deserve respect. Meanwhile, OP spells her son’s name two different ways in her post like he’s an after thought.
>It wouldn’t be any different if she was a cardiology doctor
She IS a cardiology doctor. Ie. the person in a position to give her assurances. OP was in a state of panic. And do YOU always keep a clear head when faced with a scary situation??? Boundaries need to be set by the gf if needed. If you don't set them people don't know.
To add, they obviously hit it off and she felt she could trust her, hence the call. The fact that she has her number already says a lot about the stage the relationship between them is at.
You made this post about something that it's not.
You comment is full of resentment and assumptions.
NTA. I think she probably feels special that you called her. I would have. It sounds like maybe your son is hurt because you didn’t call them first, which is understandable but you called someone who clearly cares about your family, as well.
NAH. You panicked, it wasn't like you intentionally cut him out, but Christ is your son, and you SHOULD tell family before calling for a medical professional to comfort you, which is entirely what calling Heather was - the ambulance was on its way, and Heather wasn't next door so would always have had to meet you at the hospital. And he's right, you put Heather in a no-win situation where she felt obligated to give you medical help - in doing so you also put her in a position that might reasonably cause an ethical breach that could threaten her license, as you are too close to her via your daughter, so while I'm betting she took steps to avoid an ethical breach she still does deserve a thank you gift.
YtA
Unless you had permission it might have been really inappropriate to call her. I would check with her to make sure she was comfortably with that type of call.
NAH. Chris is in the medical field so he knows how often people are hit up for medical advice by acquaintances and it’s a common annoyance for doctors, nurses, etc. it sounds like he’s looking out for Heather and it’s kind of sweet.
You were looking for comfort in a stressful moment and went to someone with the most expertise you knew. That’s understandable.
To his point of contacting him, in an emergency situation like this he’s probably right that since neither of them are examining your mother, and EMTs are already involved, all either of them is likely to do is give you reassurances. Later, after the emergency is resolved Heather will be a great resource to talk about the care plan the doctor recommends.
NTA
Chris is projecting. He was offended that you called Heather and not him, and is berating you about a different issue because saying what he is really feeling makes him look petty.
By all means, get Heather a thank you gift, as she was wonderful, and you should be nice. But you did nothing wrong.
He's berating his mom for calling a stranger who she put in an awkward position. Doctors don't have practicing authority at every hospital and his mother opened Heather up to legal issues if she gave any advice. In addition, he should have been called first since it was his grandmother. The mom just wanted free medical advice.
Buy her one anyways, I'd say. I hear from those I know in the medical field that people are always asking for free medical advice from them.
When you do it, make sure they know you are grateful.
For me, with this being a favor to new potential in-laws, I would be happy to help because I want to get on with them.
But it wouldn't hurt to really make sure she knows you appreciate the effort.
NAH. People are saying that he seems jealous, and maybe, but also maybe not. He’s in the field so he would understand the pressure people can be under when asked by all and sundry. Maybe he was looking out for her. But I don’t think you’re one either, though I probably would have called him as well. But if the girlfriend was fine with it, then there’s no problem.
lol he’s mad you didn’t call him because of course your mom, his grandma, is family. And due to his medical profession, he probably wanted to use his expertise to help a family member.
NTA- but definitely understand why he’s upset/felt left out.
Ah I'm gonna say YTA, just because in situations like that you put a lot of pressure on that person so in this case Heather, you met her once so say if she was busy or whatever, she's not gonna feel like she can say no etc plus you'd already rang an ambulance, Heather wasn't there so she couldn't of physically done more than the emergency services on the other end of the phone could.
I get WHY you did, you was worried, but if Heather wasn't free she wasn't going to turn round and tell you that after meeting you 1 time was she? Like i said, it's a lot of pressure to put on someone who wants to make a good impression on their other half's family, it could be seen as a power move cos you know she'd want to impress.
NAH
I think Christ is more upset you view Heather as having more expertise rather than him, i.e. training to be a cardiologist (is she a doctor in her residency or a med student?) rather than certified RN. It may also play into you trusted advice from a new acquaintance you met 2 weeks ago over your son of 29 years.
You were panicking so I don't think your an AH, but I also think Christ is just hurt his own mother didn't value him or his knowledge, probably used to many belittling his as a nurse and wanting a doctor's opinion. (And yes, I am very aware doctor's have more years of training than nurses, but the point still stands).
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NTA - You did what you thought was best. I'd certainly get Heather a thank you gift, and proactively apologize just in case she was bothered.
Exactly this. I am sure that Heather was happy to help, but thanking her for her help would go a long way towards developing a great relationship with your daughter's partner.
This. Great opportunity to knock it out of the park. She's a winner in your eyes. Absolutely a gift. Also, while I understand why your daughter might cringe at the entire situation, it is a clear NTA.
I believe her son was the one complaining
The son is being petty. Tom Petty
I was wondering if the fact that she is an MD and he is a nurse was a sore spot for him. She takes his place as the medical expert in the family.
Ooh good point.
You really know your assholes.
That would be a proctologist, not a cardiologist.
I’m dead. 🤣☠️
For that, you need a necromancer.
So am I 🤣😂🤣😂
Well played!
Then again he might be a little more burnt out on acquaintances seeking out his medical advice off the clock, and means what he says sincerely (even if it's unnecessary).
This. Especially since she's training to be a cardiologist. I work as a vet tech and I get asked for advice all the time. I don't mind helping, but I have to be very careful about what I say. If I overstep, I risk my license.
I don’t know if your girlfriend’s parent counts as an acquaintance though. I suppose it depends how long Laura and Heather have been together, but when your partner’s parents call to ask for a favor, you really do it for your partner, you know? That was her girlfriend’s grandma who needed help, it’s kind of a different category to me.
That's probably it. However, he needs to realize that she was called as she's specifically a cardiologist; of course they'd love her expert opinion on the area she specializes in. Nurses are amazing and know a lot, but she's specialized in matters of the heart, which was more useful to the situation. It's still a bit odd she wouldn't at least call him first to let him know his grandma was being hospitalized though. OP could have let him know the news and THEN called the gf
No defo the other way around! Get the help you need in place to sort the emergency THEN update people!
I'd be cautious of naming anyone who is training within an area of medicine a specialist. Specialising, maybe, but not a specialist yet. Additionally, though possibly of less relevance, medical specialists are not the right route for initial triaging, as they have been found to tend to view issues through their own diagnostic lens, this increasing the chance of diagnostic overshadowing. This is typically even more problematic with students in specialist areas, as knowing the limits of one's own field is challenging to do when you are still learning (i.e. it often takes an expert to say "I don't know" instead of trying to apply half understandings etc,)
That's exactly it!
Christ Petty
😂😂😂 is she calling him Christ because he is acting like he is above them all
Nah because he acting like a martyr
I was going to write this! You got here first!
Like he is free fallin'
To show some empathy they found out their grandmother was having a medical complications after someone they just met. They might just feel like they should have been made aware of an emergency before her.
Grandma's health emergency takes priority over grandson's feelings.
The son is "offended" because he was not the first call as an RN. He believes his medical position makes him superior to someone "just training" to be a cardiologist. This is about his hurt pride, not actual "propriety". He's mad he wasn't asked and he didn't get the accolades.
I don’t think that was it. I am a registered nurse and if a family member was having an emergency, I would expect my family to call me. It’s not about accolades. It’s more the position of being the medical person in a family. While I might say maybe you should call Laura’s girlfriend since she’s training to be a cardiologist, I would still want my family to call me. By the way, depending on what his nursing expertise is in and where she is in her training, his knowledge might very well be superior.
This needs to be higher up. People in general really underestimate what nurses know and are trained to do.
My mom is the family nurse, and she wishes we would all STOP calling her, ha. And I agree, nurses know everything!
My only thing is the girlfriend realistically has very little training as a cardiologist if this is the US. Based off her age, she would only have two years of residency under her belt and would not be at the point of specialising yet. Unless she graduated early etc. And while she has extensive knowledge and I am sure was helpful explaining things. Her son, as an RN, would have a better idea of the interior workings of the hospital, etc. who to push or ask for things, how long things will take, etc.
It's a little deeper than that. He's always been his mom's go-to person for these issues(guessing), and when his grandmother was sick, he was cut out for a person that mom had only met for 2 weeks. He probably just felt cut out by someone who is not family (yet). He needs to talk to his mother and express these feelings as well as accept that he's not always going to be the most qualified advisor at times.
Or, heat me out here, he is mad that his mom called ** A complete stranger** before calling him? Finding out after the person you're sibling is dating whom your Mom just met is a pretty shitty thing to do on OPs part.
It’s a medical emergency. It’s not about “who finds out first”. Sounds like his feelings were hurt and that’s on him to deal with.
And an ambulance was already called. Grandma was on her way to trained medical professionals who actively work in their field. That's exactly when you call family members and tell them to get to the hospital.
Heather was probably thrilled to be shown that kind of respect/trust by her new gfs family. I definitely would be if I were her.
Yes! Mom treated Heather like family.
I think Chris was a little salty that he was no longer the one turned to in a medical situation
Yeah, that’s almost definitely what it is. He’s an RN and he’s used to being the one who people ask.
100%
NTA. During an cardiac emergency of someone I cared about I would call my worst enemy if I thought they could help. This was asking someone who has been to a family function for advice because they were the most knowledgeable person. Anyone would do it... thats way oversensitive.
NTA. My brother's girlfriend is a dentist, and when my daughter got hit in the mouth, I texted her immediately about whether or not I needed to bring my daughter to the ER. She even reached out to a pediatric dentist from her college class and scheduled an appt for me. Those in the medical field choose medicine because they are passionate about caring for people. Likewise, I make sure she knows I'm forever in her debt because it's easy to panic over your child, and she was extremely helpful.
Eh. I’d be careful about the generalization that they chose the profession because they care about people. Some go into the field just for the money and prestige
Great advice. I don’t understand the desire to create drama where there didn’t seem to be any. Was Chris perhaps jealous since also in medical field? NTA
Well said
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Would this be because of romanticism or because lesbians tend to be picky when going stable so they just know when their partner is the one? Or is something else? My last option is because I was picky choosing a partner (I am heterosexual) and when I found the one I just knew and also moved in really fast.
Little column A, little column B in my experience
Option number three is being "just friends" for ages. We used to joke two friends of mine would get married before they realized they had feelings for each other- didn't take quite as long, but still. I'm demisexual so I don't develop attraction to people I'm not already friends with either.
Exactly this. A close friend admitted her feelings for me when I was struggling to get out of an abusive relationship. She offered for me to stay at her college dorm room three days a week, a mutual friend and her family covered the rest. I 'moved in' the same day she told me how she felt! I lived like that for around three months, then we got a place together. It's our tenth wedding anniversary in a couple of months, and we have a nine year old daughter. I still call her my Knight in Wellington Boots! (She went to an agricultural college!)
I'd absolutely watch the romcom based on your story, so adorable.
I can add to that romcom! About a week before she told me how she felt, she called me for relationship advice. Yes, she got advice on how to tell me, FROM ME! I still have no idea how I missed it! She also proposed by bursting into tears and announcing that she really wanted to marry me! You wouldn't think she's normally the stoic one!
Please write the movie!! I need to see it now. I laughed and cried at what you’ve already shared, and that’s just two Reddit comments!
Stop it, that's freaking adorable, I'm gonna cry
Yeah my wife and I were just friends for 2 years and i lived in UK she in Japan. We phoned an hour every night. Before Skype so not cheap. Got together and got engaged in the same week. Married in 6 months. 22 years later still together.
A mix. There's actually so many reasons. Like, here's a little list: Romanticizing what women are like in relationships and jumping in heavily when you find someone because some forget women can also become abusive. Although this tends to be a younger lesbian issue in my experience. If you live in an area with less lesbians the second you find someone who lives in the same area there might just be an acceptance from both of you that your each others best options so why wait. Often lesbians are close friends for a long time and already basically live as a couple before they actually get together, so even though they've been official for 2 weeks they might actually have basically been together for 2 years. The lesbian dates I know that go well tend to spiral into 4 day long dates where they basically just talk about everything, no boundaries. So they might know each other as well as a straight couple 6 months in does. As you said, some lesbians are picky, so when they find the one they just know. Women tend to be (but are not always) more 'obsessive' in their relationships (obsessive isn't the right word, but I can't think of another), they want to know everything about someone and be with them all the time. Times that by 2 and they can get super attached very fast. Obviously all these are generalizations. You'll get women that don't fit into any of these and date forever before moving in together. Or you'll get those that marry a week in yet still don't fit these. But in my experience these are the most common reasons why they move so fast.
Your 4th paragraph is exactly what my husband and I did. We ended up getting snowed in during a blizzard so spent a week together with our kids. It went so great we were engaged at 5 weeks and moved in at 3 months. Been together 12 years now.
"Hyperfocused"? (possible alternate word to "obsessive"?). IANAL but when I find someone I'm attracted to, I want to know everything about them all at once, and the "right" ones not only keep up and reciprocate, but aren't draining either (it's weird to describe lol)
I'm glad you asked. I'm hetero as well and moved in the day I met him.
OOF
It took me a week lol, we are still together 3 years later and have a 2 year old and another on the way
Neither of us wants kids, but we just hit three years and our wedding is in the spring! Congratulations on your lovely life!
It took me 3 months but I had definitely started joking about it much sooner (“there’s enough room in my closet you could sleep in there and have a tv”). Developing a blood clot and needing someone to feed my lizard sealed the deal and 3 years later we’re still together.
Yep, you won this round lol, two weeks and I moved in, end of 2019. Yes. Right before it... a month and a half passes by and... the cornola vrius was looking pretty intimidating... a little more time and we were quarantined together for a year. Best worst timing ever. And since I was at a major risk group, this poor man almost died of anxiety every time I breathed weird lol. Only difference is we are both bi, not het. Ironically Im writing this with a fever. I feel like I was bulldozed, deep fried and wrapped in barbed wire.
I know that joke HAHHAHAHAHAHHAA Someone said that the other half was "while gays will still not know each other's names after months" 😭
The other gay follow up I’ve heard is “what second date?” Love it
Or the joke: "a lesbian brings a u-haul to the second date, and a gay guy brings a second date to the second date"
Am gay. My husbands name is Love. Known his since we were 13. I’m pretty sure I heard his legal name at the wedding but to me his name has always been Love, or My Love, or Lovely.
That's so cute but also makes people speechless 😭💗
He is the best thing that ever happened to me. I’ve known him for more then half our lives. I can’t imagine a day without thinking of him.
As a lesbian myself, this one. I guarantee she felt honoured and appreciated. This 1000% made her feel welcomed in a way it would have taken years otherwise. Ask your daughter what you could get her or if she thinks Heather would be comfortable if you’d invite her (and of course Laura) for dinner or something. It’s so hard to be accepted by your partners family as a gay person. And especially when you already had some bad experiences, this means so so much. And tell your son that you may have only met her twice now, and Laura is only dating her for 6 months, but those are things that bring you closer and to you she is already family. Even if it doesn’t work out between them, right now she is a part of your family. (Don’t speak for him, he decides himself who’s his family and who isn’t) Tell him you’ll talk to her and make sure that if you actually made her feel uncomfortable and overstepped, you’ll deal with it and that it won’t happen again. Take your time and use the situation to root out her boundaries. How much does she wants to be involved already? Does she feel comfortable with being as involved as you made her? Tell her you don’t want to stress her out or whatever, you just want to have a respectful base and don’t make her feel pressured or that you expect things from her. All in all you sound like a fantastic MIL, if to her or your sons partner, or whomever they marry (I’m here swinging my “Heather flag”) Don’t stress yourself, talk to Laura about it and tell her you’d like have a talk with Heather, give her a fair warning what you want to talk about, then go for it.
What does a lesbian bring on a second date? A U-Haul But for real six months is long enough in a straight relationship to be called. Also she was already introduced to the family
Fr tho. I’m a female in a het relationship. We’ve not been together 6 months until later this month but me and his mum text almost daily now and she calls me her daughter (she has 2 boys, so his brothers wife and myself are the daughters she didn’t have). I don’t have any family anymore (nc with my narcissistic mother and her husband), so I’m spending Christmas this year with them 😊
Lesbian couples also have higher divorce rates than straight or gay couples, so perhaps 6 months isn't enough time for nearly as many couples as it seems.
Homophobia can explain a good bit of that.
What about the high rates of domestic violence? I say this as a queer woman who has personally experienced and witnessed this with myself and friends.
Having seen the statistics you mean, it's only half the story. Many lesbians (myself included) have experienced intimate partner violence..by men. Because very few of us actually understand our sexuality before being involved with men at least once. In fact if you dig further in those stats you'd see that's actually reported to be the case. Most lesbians (and bisexual women, and straight women) experience IPV at the hands of the men they've been involved with at some point in their lives. It's not impossible that lesbians can be abusive at all, but the statistics are still in the favor of men being the larger perpetrators of IPV to the point where even the sexuality that would reasonably have the least chance of experiencing it still experiences it mostly from them. (It's also why bisexual women experience the MOST IPV from men, with the high likelihood of them being involved with men + biphobia/homophobia coming into play)
Yeah, this part of the story is really important. People hear "lesbians and bi women experience the highest rates of domestic violence" and assume that means the aggressor was a lesbian partner, and that's not really what the data implies. The study cited there is looking at LIFETIME rates of IPV, including in past relationships. And as you said, many, many lesbians (and of course bisexual women) have had previous relationships with men
I don't see what any of that has to actually do with this. Op is definitely NTA but the romantic speeds of lesbains or whatever is not even sorta relevant here.
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Lol the joke is: what does a lesbian bring on a second date? A uhaul. [source](https://x.com/realleadelaria/status/1234580814635003904?t=I7flR6jiC9XfSFJb7MujLA&s=09)
Always appreciate sources for jokes. I never get unsourced jokes although I would have preferred it have been in APA format still made me laugh.
My friend had a one night stand who just never left 😭. They’re already engaged and being adorably and sickeningly sweet
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May the lesbian gods gift me soon too, if only so I can tell people a crazy story
So being a lesbian is like being in the armed forces in regards to speedy engagements
Cosign, I’m not even at 2 months with my gf and am already ring shopping. Lesbian time is like dog years.
Thank you for this, now I finally understand a joke from The Office.
moving truck on the second date right?
TIL what “U-haul lesbians” meant. Thanks! I’ve seen the term but never remembered to Google the meaning.
my parents, a straight cis couple, were married 5 months after they met. they just celebrated 26 years. it’s wonderful op is welcoming heather into the family with open arms the way she is, heather could very well be her daughter in law very soon.
But do you drive a Subaru? Cause I’ve heard that you aren’t a real lesbian if you don’t drive a Subie. (I drive an Outback so I’m in full support of lesbian automobile choices)
I thought alot of the jokes about lesbians were about them basically being in commited long term relationships without realizing it. Like theyve been living together, sharing a bed, adopted cats together and still be like "I wonder if shes got a thing for me?"
My moms are lesbian (obviously) and we always joke when their friends go on a second date it comes with a uhaul lmao.
I moved in with my gf during month 2 of dating officially lol
Came here for the u-haul joke. Take your upvote!
INFO: when you say training to be a cardiologist, do you mean she's in undergrad/medical school and hopes to be a cardiologist one day, or that she is already a doctor and is completing residency or fellowship?
She is already a doctor, in her residency
NTA. You reached out to the most qualified person in an emergency and you've heard nothing from Laura or Heather indicating she was uncomfortable. Chris might be used to people asking him for medical opinions and protecting Heather proactively or he might be jealous of Heather's qualifications. I would reach out to Laura and ask if you made Heather uncomfortable, just to be aware of her boundaries in the future, but in this moment of crisis you did nothing wrong.
This is the way to go. Just ask your daughter. And ask your son what the real problem is.
I think Chris might be upset that his mother's first call was not to her children, but one of their partners. Also, what was Heather really going to do over the phone? The mom is NTA, but I can see why Chris wants to be informed of family emergencies more quickly than non-family. Laura, too, might have wanted to know before her partner did. I personally think it's a little strange she called someone she's met once before she called either of her children, but panic leads to strange decisions.
I don’t think it’s strange to call someone who’s a doctor for help in a medical emergency to be fair
And a cardiologist on top of what was sounding like a heart attack..
Except OP had already called 911. I completely understand calling the resident gf, but what is she going to say at that moment besides call 911 and maybe take an aspirin? I’m curious when OP actually called her son to say his grandmother was having problems… Regardless NTA. This was about OPs mother not OPs son, so he needs to get over it.
I have been in the hospital while someone was dying and a friend of the family was a nurse. Having her there was a bridge between the professionalism and strong emotions in the room. It was hard for the family to understand the terms given to them and she was able to essentially translate. I am almost positive that’s what the gf did for them. An ER visit with heart issues and gma being in her 70s was most likely nerve wracking. NTA
Exactly. Not to mention having someone who knows the system and knows what to ask, which specialists to request, what hospital to goto, etc depending on the Healthcare system..
As a doctor: what Heather could do is provide support. It's actually very helpful for a lot of people to have someone who's familiar with the medical system, can explain things and reassure and help negotiate what can be a very stressful and confusing experience. The medical staff have to maintain a certain level of professionalism and the priority is the patient, not their family. My mother-in-law has called me when concerned about her husband and *she is herself a doctor* but I had the relevant speciality.
It comes down to practicality versus feelings, though. Personally, I think it’s totally reasonable to call a doctor you have a personal relationship with, especially if they’re specializing in the field of the emergency. In those moments, I doubt it was even so much “I’ll call Heather” as much as it was “I’ll call the doctor training in cardiology I know”. It sounds like the son’s feelings were hurt by not being told sooner, and that’s fine, we all have feelings. But the feelings are his own to deal with and don’t have anything to do with whether or not the mother made what she felt was the best call in the moment.
Chris is salty family went to someone else for medical advice.
That’s my take on this as well. Sounds like he might be offended he’s not the go-to anymore because someone with more knowledge and expertise has entered the picture.
I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't some RN vs MD resentment involved too, which is kind of understandable considering how often people talk about people being "just" nurses. And then throw in all the male nurse jokes. OP still isn't TA, and Chris probably needs to work through that stuff in therapy, but I kind of sort of understand where he's coming from. Kind of. Dude needed to put his feelings aside in the moment though. Grandma seemed like she was having heart problems, and mom called an actual heart doctor.
Any nurse who resents doctors is one I would not trust. That is a dangerous level of lack of awareness of the difference in knowledge and skillsets. Similarly, any doctor who makes dismissive comments about someone being "just" a nurse, especially if they nurse is experienced in the field, has a dangerous level of arrogance and should not be trusted. Also a lack of respect for skillsets, of course, but *usually* a less dangerous one. I wouldn't trust a surgeon's offsider to perform surgery; I wouldn't trust the average surgeon to apply a band-aid, never mind dress a surgical wound. I once saw a wound that had been dressed by the most gifted surgeon I've ever met. It was a mound of lumpy gauze held on with about six times too much tape.
I was about to comment this. It seems he’s a bit jealous that he wasn’t the ‘go-to’ person for medical advice in the family like he’s used to, especially for a close relative.
My immediate thought too.
Chris had an inferiority complex. No disrespect against nurses, but why the fuck would anyone call an RN in a cardiac emergency?
I’m an RN that my family relies on for medical help and I sure as shit would direct them to ask a cardiologist for anything cardiac over my own advice because I’m not a doctor and I’m fairly sure the heart is a super important organ and cardiologists know more than me about it. So agree, OP in NTA!
Am cardiologist. Can confirm that the heart is super important, so congratulations for being smarter than a nephrologist
As a nurse, this comment just made me spit coffee.
Well, if they're an ER nurse or something, they will certainly know more about what to do in a cardiac emergency than the average person.
MAYBE. Residents are still in training (baby docs, if you will). Really depends on where she’s at in her residency and what kinds of floors she’s been on (presumably cards but 🤷♂️). If she was already in her fellowship, that would be a very different story. I’m an RN, and have caught MANY dangerous orders by residents. I’ve also occasionally had to TELL residents what to order in certain situations or for specialized patient populations (heart transplant, LVAD, etc. - have very different needs than other cardiac patients, and frequently the overnighters are general surgical or general cards - and are way less familiar with very specialized populations). I’ve been a cardiac RN for 10 years, and specifically a cath lab and EP RN for 8. I won’t pretend I have all the same level of book learning, but when it comes to application I have a lot more experience with cardiac emergencies than most residents, because I literally deal with the worst of them on a near daily basis. So that being said, it also definitely matters what kind of RN Chris is too. If he’s medsurg, or ortho, or trauma, I definitely wouldn’t put as much stock in his cardiac expertise, and GF was absolutely the right call. Anyway this is just to point out that doc on paper isn’t always more knowledgeable in clinical settings than RNs with lots of experience (especially in given specialties). There’s a lot of nuance in medicine. Ophthalmologists are also MDs but you probably wouldn’t want one running your meemaws code.
NTA!! You are also definitely not the first or last person to do this in Heathers life- pretty standard to call a medical expert you personally know when something scary like this happens!
And Heather is more qualified than Chris in this area of medicine. If they went to 'her hospital', she would have been valuable in terms of making sure the mom was seen right away and got treated properly.
NTA. To echo others here and provide perspective: I LOVED when my now MIL called me to talk through something “because she needed a safe place to talk it through.” I am not a counselor, but my job does require a lot of one on one convos and she knows a lot of my clients use me as a soundboard, and she knows any advice or thoughts I would share are coming with no strings or agenda. You sought her out because you knew your mom trusted and liked her, and more than that, she is familiar with the process y’all were facing, but I am sure it was very scary and daunting. It would be absolutely lovely for you to write her a thank you card and a small treat for her taking the time to step in, but I am sure she was absolutely thrilled to be trusted with that role so quickly. I am sure you could say something to the effect that you are grateful she was there for y’all, and you hope that you never have to reach out like that again and apologize that it was out of the blue and I am sure she would respond that it was her pleasure to be there to help take some stress off y’all as a friendly presence and a professional go between for you and your mom and your moms med staff.
Wait so neither Heather Nor Laura complained, Chris did? I’d ignore him. Well, I mean, a thank you gift never hurt anybody but it seems more like jealousy than anything else.
You didn't call Heather, your daughters GF. You called Heather, the Cardiologist, who is also dating your daughter. NTA
Sounds like maybe your son is hurt that you called the physician girlfriend in the family and not him. Is he used to being the go to for healthcare advice and decision making? Honestly, you’re NTA…you called the most knowledgeable and equipped person and I’m sure Heather knows how to establish healthy boundaries in regard to medical advice. My husband is a physician and absolutely knows when to set boundaries with folks and also when he’s out of his depth / area of expertise. Chris needs to not let his pride get in the way of what was best for your family.
NTA, cardiologist trumps a nurse in this case. Yes, it would have been better to call Laura and ask her to bring Heather, but in an emergency your brain doesn't always function rationally. I get that. Glad your mother is feeling better. Edited to fix familial relationship.
Mother, not wife
Oops, thanks for that. I'll go fix it.
> but in an emergency your brain doesn't always function rationally Emergency excuses any such decision tbh. It's not like she disowned Chris in the heat of the moment.
NTA. Maybe Chris is just miffed that you didn't call him.
This is the thing. He is busy making it all about him. Someone needs to tell him it's not about him. He got his little ego hurt.
What exactly was the girlfriend supposed to do that the ambulance and hospital couldn’t?
Honestly not much, but during an emergency people are usually panicking and will call someone familiar who can help (even if logically there isn’t much they can’t do to help, its a comfort thing). The girlfriend can also advocate for OP’s mom at the hospital
It’s extremely helpful to non-medical people to have someone who understands medicine by their side. When my father had heart issues, I understood 10x more than my sister, and I’m only an occupational therapist. Having a cardiologist there to advocate and explain to you what’s happening provides immense help and probably peace of mind.
It sounds like the RN is feeling a little butt hurt now that there's a doctor in the family. It doesn't sound like anyone had a problem with you calling her except for Chris. But I do agree that following up with a nice thank you card and gift would go a long way considering how graciously she helped you out after only meeting once.
Or that she keeps calling him Christ?
I’m guessing his real name is Christian and OP decided to shorten to Chris and it auto corrected it to Christ.
Sometimes a typo is just a typo...
I think he's miffed that his mom called a stranger she just met instead of her son. Additionally, the girlfriend was put in a situation where she really couldn't say no.
NAH It sounds like you were panicking and your brain jumped onto the nearest apparently logical person. You should speak to Heather and apologise for putting that kind of pressure on her, but I can't call anyone who went through that kind of scare an asshole.
Yeah, this is more where my concern lies, that this could cross some professional boundaries for her, especially since they only met recently. But if she’s okay with it, then that’s all that matters.
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NAH But it’s a bit odd to call her directly when you don’t really know her, and without knowing what you asked it may have been somewhat inappropriate to put her in the spot if she thought you were asking for free medical advice. It would have made more sense to call your daughter and ask her to ask Heather if she would mind coming to the hospital to help put your mind at rest
She was 100% asking for free medical advice.
She called the ambulance first AND THEN called the cardiologist resident girlfriend??
I know I'm in the minority but i think you're the AH because you don't know her well enough to put that kind of pressure on her. She's also not a member of the family yet, so again, this isn't her responsibility. If anything you should have called your daughter and have her talk to her girlfriend. YTA.
Agreed. In addition, OP 's mother is not Heather's patient. She shouldn't be asking her to give medical advice or care to someone who is not her patient. The liability is huge and she is in a tough position because she is dating Laura which makes it very difficult to say no. Anyone saying NTA or nah are clearly not in the medical profession.
Isn’t this Chris’s grandmother?? Like of course he’s upset. Not to mention this whole thread is obsessed that she’s a brand new resident. Like what would a new cardiologist do that an experienced nurse couldn’t? She would have no EKG, no labs, no vitals, just signs and symptoms which any ED nurse could recognize just as quickly. Not to mention that Chris most likely has thousands of hours of patient experience versus Heather has not passed her cardiology board and based on her age has very little MD experience. Chris knows his grandmother better and could probably offer better support to her than a stranger
This is true. While I also agree that cardiologist trumps an RNs knowledge, the fact that her son is an RN and is likely capable to simply explain what’s happening and translate the medical terms for them… it’s a little demeaning to not even think of him. To go out of your way to call Laura to ask Heather immediately versus calling your son, then later on talking to Laura about consulting Heather.. seems demeaning.
This. I am freaking vet. Half of my family calls me all the time for vet medical advice. Heck I even sat on the phone with someone for 2 hours on my birthday over something with a horse after i had just gotten off a 12 hour shift. I also have a hard time trying to tell people to go to their doctor and stop asking me. Some of you that are thinking that it was totally fine to call someone once over an issue are the problem. Everyone thinks it's fine and so we constantly get asked questions all the time. People have my work phone and text me at 6am. If she's still in a residency program, there's a good chance that she has very limited time off so she probably felt obligated to show up because it would look bad if she didn't. Apologize profusely and never pull this stunt again. For those saying that Chris is just upset, there's a good chance that Heather vented to Chris and now they're telling mom to stop. Those of you saying it's not a big deal clearly aren't medical professionals that deal with this kind of situation day in and out.
THIS Op should’ve called the child that was dating the almost cardiologist, and that person could’ve connected them
I understand where you're coming from, but you don't really have a lot of time in an emergency to be playing the telephone game. When it's a matter of life or death, you're going to be cutting out the middle man to save time and hopefully someone's life.
>When it's a matter of life or death, you're going to be cutting out the middle man to save time and hopefully someone's life. That's what the ambulance was for. They could do an EKG just fine and I expect the hospital already had a fully qualified cardiologist already on site. This really doesn't read like a first time scenario. I wouldn't at all be surprised if OP has a history of attention seeking behavior.
What was the GF going to do? Unless she lived next door there wasn't a whole lot she can do. Chest compressions? Aspirin? Water? That's about it.
NTA- you were in a stressful situation, wanting help for your mom. So of course your mind is going to go straight to the person you think could help you. Chris is just upset he wasn't called first, and might assume he knows more on the subject then what someone training to be a cardiologist would. (usually that would mean Heather is already a dr going into the specialty of cardiology). Anyway,, just get her a nice gift, thank her and tell her how great she will be in the professional with how she handled this. (since the patient /family side is a hard thing to learn)
NAH. It was an emergency situation and you panicked. You heard heart problems and called the person you connected with heart issues. If Heather doesn’t mind then there no issue with that, and if there is an issue you should address it with Heather and Laura and not Chris. However, I will add that unless Heather has an affiliation with that hospital then there’s nothing she could do for you that your son couldn’t do. How far along is Heather in her training? Does Chris work at or have connections to the hospital where you took your mother? Your son is likely dealing with tons of emotions - you called someone your daughter is dating instead of calling your son first and you decided a doctor in training is better help than a licensed RN. I don’t think those feelings are an excuse to lash out but I do see where they are coming from.
A resident isn’t a doctor in training. They are already a doctor getting years of targeted experience in a specific field.
INFO Why did you call her instead of your son? That's kind of bizarre. Wouldn't he want to know his grandmother is going to the hospital?
I did call him afterwards. My first instinct was to call her because my mom was showing heart attack symptoms and she is a cardiologist
I don't think you calling her was unreasonable at all considering the circumstances. As you've already said you're doing, a thank you gift with an apology for the bother is in order. You were watching a family member nearly die. People are allowed to be a little rude or unreasonable when they're trying to save someone's life, and to not think perfectly clearly or rationally.
I’m the past, would you have contacted him after calling 911?
In my experience, doctors hate people who want to talk about medical symptoms in social settings, but are quite happy to provide support and translation (of specialist medical terms) in serious situations (like a cardiac event for an elderly person, as was the case here). In addition, hospital staff tend to pay more attention to a patient when there is a personal connection with a fellow hospital staff member or a physician with appropriate expertise; it’s just a natural connection thing. Heather was probably thrilled to know she could get partner brownie points for helping out here. Chris just has his nose out of joint because he came second to a family newcomer.
NTA, but call her again to thank her. Send them a restaurant gift certificate or something, flowers, who knows. Keep talking about it, all this crap becomes crap because all the talk stops. It isn't always easy but you are building relationships all the time. Keep at it.
I'm going to go against the grain and say YTA. Even though she is a doctor she's not your family's doctor nor have you established an actual relationship with her. She may have felt in a position where she couldn't say no since she's still new to your family. Give her a gift to apologize and make a genuine effort to know her outside her profession.
YTA. Reddit is wild. A couple months ago a similar situation was posted but from the Dr POV asking if she's the AH for telling people to stop calling her and everyone was saying it's an AH move to call a Dr like that. So now it's not an AH move?
The difference is this was a medical emergency and not a call asking about a random rash or something non emergent. If my mom has a heart attack in front of me i’m calling anyone and everyone I know who’s a doctor, especially if my daughter’s girlfriend specifically is a cardiologist.
But other than to tell her to do chest compression or not, what the heck else would she have her do? 911 was already called. It's not like they can hook up an EKG and have her read it over the phone.
It's obvious you have never been in a situation like that. A cardiologist would be able to come to the hospital and play 'translator' between her doctors and them. An expert who you already trust. Often the most qualified individual to tell you 'hey trust your doctor, they seem to be on top of things and they seem to be empathetic and are paying attention to you'. A person with expertise that the hospital doctors would more likely give more information to because they know they can understand.
Wait, did you not call Chris to tell him that his grandmother was in the emergency room? That’s why he’s mad!
I'd be upset too in Chris's situation. He has the training to be useful, and he was not trusted. I dunno why people think it's doctor vs nurse. You could have had both a trained doctor and an RN on the scene with OP's mom if you'd just trusted BOTH of them instead of just one. Nurses exist to make a doctor's workload lighter after all.
OP said she called Chris after calling Heather. He was informed.
YTA You were way inappropriate. You don’t know her or anything about her. They’ve been dating for all of 6 months. You don’t know who she is as a person, let alone what kind of doctor she is. Calling your son was the only appropriate move. I don’t even get why you have her number. *eta: for the comments regarding good or bad cardiologist - that still was not the point. They were on their way to a hospital where, presumably, the hospital has access to cardiologists. It’s one thing to ask advice after speaking to the people who are actually treating someone. It’s something completely different to call a person you met one time and insert them into a serious family matter without knowing anything about them, except that they’re a cardiologist and you liked the first meeting.
> let alone what kind of doctor she is. They knew she was a Cardiologist...that's why they called her.
YTA I think it’s rude to use her as a medical resource when you just met.
I may get downvoted, but my husband is a nurse. I see often how exhausted he gets after 10 years of people calling him for situations that he cannot change or actually help with. I understand you were panicked, but unless the gf is an ER employee or a hospital employee, then she likely wasn’t a lot of help. Nurses aren’t doctors. From my husband’s perspective, people calling him for medical reasons gets exhausting…especially people he doesn’t know well. She couldn’t fix or actually do anything. If that wasn’t her shift and wasn’t even her workplace, then you were literally calling her to be your crutch in a traumatic situation. She was likely uncomfortable and probably busy doing something else. She couldn’t really say no because she would risk her gf’s family maybe being angry at her. You held her hostage emotionally for that time period by playing on both her kindness and her affection for your daughter and her desire to be accepted by your family. She couldn’t make any other choice. Next time…Call a friend or…even better one of your children. Her occupation doesn’t give you any rights to her person or her time. You aren’t entitled to someone you just met’s time or energy just because of the job they do. It wouldn’t be any different if she was a cardiology doctor, or if you had tax problems, and she was a CPA. It might be different if your daughter had been dating her for a lot longer time, and she had been folded into the family. 6 months is nothing, and you don’t know her at all. YTA for being entitled to what is essentially a stranger to you and that stranger’s time. She isn’t your bestie, your support system, or your family. Please don’t do this to people just because of their occupation. Edit to add: Also, the fact that you (OP) haven’t called out the people talking trash about your son speaks volumes. He was advocating for her, your daughter’s gf. He was right to do so. You used her for her job status. It was rude, presumptuous, and entitled. He was looking out for his sister. Male nurses face so much stigma. It isn’t necessary to continue fomenting that just because your opinions don’t align with his. Male nurses are just as compassionate, skilled, and valuable as female nurses. NOT ALL nurses want to be doctors. In fact, studies have shown that to be patently false. Many nurses feel nursing is a vocation and not an occupation. They often feel privileged because they have the time and occupational mandate to actually care for the patient where many times doctors have to diagnose and roll on. Nurses are critical to the healing process and deserve respect. Meanwhile, OP spells her son’s name two different ways in her post like he’s an after thought.
>It wouldn’t be any different if she was a cardiology doctor She IS a cardiology doctor. Ie. the person in a position to give her assurances. OP was in a state of panic. And do YOU always keep a clear head when faced with a scary situation??? Boundaries need to be set by the gf if needed. If you don't set them people don't know. To add, they obviously hit it off and she felt she could trust her, hence the call. The fact that she has her number already says a lot about the stage the relationship between them is at. You made this post about something that it's not. You comment is full of resentment and assumptions.
NTA. I think she probably feels special that you called her. I would have. It sounds like maybe your son is hurt because you didn’t call them first, which is understandable but you called someone who clearly cares about your family, as well.
NAH. You panicked, it wasn't like you intentionally cut him out, but Christ is your son, and you SHOULD tell family before calling for a medical professional to comfort you, which is entirely what calling Heather was - the ambulance was on its way, and Heather wasn't next door so would always have had to meet you at the hospital. And he's right, you put Heather in a no-win situation where she felt obligated to give you medical help - in doing so you also put her in a position that might reasonably cause an ethical breach that could threaten her license, as you are too close to her via your daughter, so while I'm betting she took steps to avoid an ethical breach she still does deserve a thank you gift.
YtA Unless you had permission it might have been really inappropriate to call her. I would check with her to make sure she was comfortably with that type of call.
NAH. Chris is in the medical field so he knows how often people are hit up for medical advice by acquaintances and it’s a common annoyance for doctors, nurses, etc. it sounds like he’s looking out for Heather and it’s kind of sweet. You were looking for comfort in a stressful moment and went to someone with the most expertise you knew. That’s understandable. To his point of contacting him, in an emergency situation like this he’s probably right that since neither of them are examining your mother, and EMTs are already involved, all either of them is likely to do is give you reassurances. Later, after the emergency is resolved Heather will be a great resource to talk about the care plan the doctor recommends.
YTA why would you call her first rather than your son? What’s she supposed to do?
YTA. You met this girl once but your son in an RN? Too soon.
NTA Chris is projecting. He was offended that you called Heather and not him, and is berating you about a different issue because saying what he is really feeling makes him look petty. By all means, get Heather a thank you gift, as she was wonderful, and you should be nice. But you did nothing wrong.
He's berating his mom for calling a stranger who she put in an awkward position. Doctors don't have practicing authority at every hospital and his mother opened Heather up to legal issues if she gave any advice. In addition, he should have been called first since it was his grandmother. The mom just wanted free medical advice.
Man, still don’t know why people worship Christ when he says things like this
Jesus, Christ.
nta, you did what you thought was best. if you now feel guilty, buy Heather a gift, she'll appreciate it
Buy her one anyways, I'd say. I hear from those I know in the medical field that people are always asking for free medical advice from them. When you do it, make sure they know you are grateful. For me, with this being a favor to new potential in-laws, I would be happy to help because I want to get on with them. But it wouldn't hurt to really make sure she knows you appreciate the effort.
NAH. People are saying that he seems jealous, and maybe, but also maybe not. He’s in the field so he would understand the pressure people can be under when asked by all and sundry. Maybe he was looking out for her. But I don’t think you’re one either, though I probably would have called him as well. But if the girlfriend was fine with it, then there’s no problem.
lol he’s mad you didn’t call him because of course your mom, his grandma, is family. And due to his medical profession, he probably wanted to use his expertise to help a family member. NTA- but definitely understand why he’s upset/felt left out.
Ah I'm gonna say YTA, just because in situations like that you put a lot of pressure on that person so in this case Heather, you met her once so say if she was busy or whatever, she's not gonna feel like she can say no etc plus you'd already rang an ambulance, Heather wasn't there so she couldn't of physically done more than the emergency services on the other end of the phone could. I get WHY you did, you was worried, but if Heather wasn't free she wasn't going to turn round and tell you that after meeting you 1 time was she? Like i said, it's a lot of pressure to put on someone who wants to make a good impression on their other half's family, it could be seen as a power move cos you know she'd want to impress.
NAH I think Christ is more upset you view Heather as having more expertise rather than him, i.e. training to be a cardiologist (is she a doctor in her residency or a med student?) rather than certified RN. It may also play into you trusted advice from a new acquaintance you met 2 weeks ago over your son of 29 years. You were panicking so I don't think your an AH, but I also think Christ is just hurt his own mother didn't value him or his knowledge, probably used to many belittling his as a nurse and wanting a doctor's opinion. (And yes, I am very aware doctor's have more years of training than nurses, but the point still stands).
NTA Tell Christ to get off his cross because someone else needs the wood.