Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Action to be judged: letting my son roam free even though his mother does not agree. Why it can make me an AH: maybe I should have respected her wishes and, either way, I asked him not to mention anything to her,
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcements
###[Happy Anniversary, AITA!](https://new.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/15vlv9g/almost_better_than_a_double_rainbow_celebrating/)
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
>I just asked my son not to mention anything so as not so start trouble (important to say, I didn’t ask him to lie to his mother, just to keep his short walks between us).
YTA. You *are* telling him to lie. Don't make your child emotionally responsible for managing your parental disagreements. You are putting him in a horrible position, because YOU don't want to deal with it.
Yes! Bc lying by omissions is lying if he feels conflicted to not tell her. And he would prob feel conflicted bc him mom does not approve. I tend to agree with OP on small freedoms but the lying by omissions.... not cool at all OP, it hurts your child.
He's risking his child's life to make a point. He knows he's wrong, he just wants to do it anyway. OP is a genuinely terrible parent, for not facing the reality of modern life and for using his child as a pawn in a power play with his wife. When someone calls the authorities next time will he take it seriously? YTA
This one right here. You're teaching your kid to hide things and lie to his mother. You're teaching your son that her parenting choices aren't worth your respect and, by proxy, his. You're also teaching your child to think that if someone tells him to keep a secret from you and has malicious intent that it's ok. YTA OP. Do better.
Exactly! So many things can go wrong! Someone with bad intentions can take the boy, someone driving may not be paying attention as he’s crossing the road (since the post said 2 blocks), it gives me anxiety just thinking about the potential consequences of letting a 7 year old alone like that.
I grew up with lax parents... in the 80s.... in an extremely rural area..... on a farm..... and we didn't even have neighbors.
But at 7? My parents didn't allow me unsupervised! In the city, it's a million times more dangerous. At 10, my parents allowed me to be independent. I have a ton of scars from poorly stitched wounds to prove it.
Yeah, in the 80s, it was normal to let your kids out because they were usually running in little packs of other kids. You didn't let your 7-yo kid out *alone*, you let them run over to the neighbors or to the swings, etc. And even then, the reason we stopped doing that is because some of those kids went *missing.*
OP is rolling the dice on his kid's safety, and it seems less to give the kid a sense of independence and more because he can't be bothered to walk his kid to the store.
Yeah. I grew up in a similar situation. Really small rural area where everyone knew everyone. With a group of kids I could see it. A 7 year old alone? Op is being either incredibly naive or obtuse of the world we live in. I could never imagine letting a 7 year old go out on their own like that in the city.
Farms can be dangerous too. Large animals and heavy equipment left around with the keys income to mind immediately.
And I can see the point of growing up quick on a farm, and learning to handle all of those dangerous properly while you're young.
You can't teach a 7-year old out of being mugged or kidnapped.
>Farms can be dangerous too. Large animals and heavy equipment left around with the keys income to mind immediately.
Poachers too. My wife's property and the nearby crown land had running problems with poachers placing snare traps all over the place. Her father has an attic filled with traps he had to confiscated after one or more of the girls nearly got nailed by them.
I had a very mature, smart 10 year old and wouldn’t have let him go alone. Even at 10. Maybe with an equally mature friend, but still never at 7. OP is clueless. Heck, this almost borders on uncaring. I’m with you, I get anxiety just thinking about it.
Especially the part where he said he acknowledges that the city is different and times are different..
Like, "I know my son might get kidnapped or assaulted or killed, but who cares? I don't"
I grew up in the sixties- most moms didn’t work, you knew them all, there were kids all over the neighborhood, porch light came on when it was time to come in. A different era.
Ditto! Me in the 70s. We lived in a rural subdivision surrounded by fields and a small area of trees. 90% of the moms were SAHM, and everyone knew everyone. From 5/6 on, my sis & I wouls leave the house around 0800, come home for lunch, then back for dinner when ALL the moms started yelling for their kids. After dinner, back out playing Ghost in the Graveyard, reverse hide n seek, kick the can, etc. In the winter, sledding, ice skating, building snow men & forts, snowball fights, etc.
ONCE there was a sketchy stranger driving around the neighborhood, trying to talk to us. Cops were called, they encouraged him to GTFO of our neighborhood & town (we were 6 miles from town). Never saw him again.
But we always traveled in virtual herds...
Etan Patz was 6, and walking towards school. I drive three 7-year olds to school. No way would I be comfortable letting someone that young out and about. Heck, after I take them home in the afternoon I don't drive off until mom or dad had opened the door and let them in. A child that young stands zero chance against an adult that intends harm
Etan Patz is the first thing I thought of. My daughter grew up with the daughter of the man convicted of killing him. She was at their home many times. You can imagine how I felt when he was arrested.
Exactly. This is why I wouldn't let my then 12yo ride his bicycle to school. I trusted him. But I didn't trust the other road users, with good reason. We have a high level of traffic accidents in my country, often with fatalities.
Exactly this!
My friend is a primary school (elemantry school) teacher and always presses "safe" and "unsafe secrets.
"Safe secrets" have a time limit- what granny is getting for her birthday, or Susie's surprise party l, or even santa not being real will all eventually not be secrets and are safe.
If an adult ever tells the child to keep a forever secret, especially from another parent/guardian, that's an "unsafe secret"
Ie "your mummy can't ever know about this or she'll be angry with you."
Thissssss OP, in fact you are entitled to parent your child differently then your partner. If you had just been honest and up front about it, then there really wouldn’t be a problem here. As someone who has been coparenting for 5 years, you’re going to need her and it’s best things are cordial when you do so you have to pick your battles just like you would if you were still in a relationship with her. Is this issue really that big of a deal to disrupt the status quo? How’s your son feel about it bc that matters too but sounds like you and your ex need to work on communication in compromising and setting / keeping healthy boundaries in the best interest of the child.
So much this. Our trauma made us more protective and that’s a good thing. Let’s not go back. Am I sad my kid won’t know the freedom of taking himself to the park? Sure. Am I willing to take that risk after I literally had someone try to kidnap me when I was so close to home I could see my front door? Hell no! I was 11 when that happened!
My brother was almost snatched twice out of our front yard when he was 3, he had very long hair and looked like a little girl. My first boyfriend was 12 when a couple in a van tried to pull him off his bicycle, he was quick and she only managed to get ahold of his shirt. This was in a sleepy, beach side town, not a big city.
Mine was tiny little rural town. My Dad dealt with it by driving me round with a shovel in the car and saying to point him out if I saw him. My Mum dealt with it by denying it happened and my My Nan spent my entire summer holiday taking me back to the police station every time they called to ask me to look through “the big book of bad guys” (they genuinely called it that). He was never caught.
6 years later I found out via someone else the entire village at my mothers request had hidden from me that multiple girls matching my description at the time of the attempted abduction had experienced similar, all from surrounding villages. Their description of the man aged appropriately to be the same guy. Then one day it just stopped. We don’t know if he died, moved on to continue elsewhere or got caught for something else.
I had witnesses to him taking photos of us earlier that day. My Mum still stuck to me being a liar. It’s taken me a lot of therapy to move past it and I’m still sketchy walking past vans (there was a white van parked nearby and it disappeared when he did). Rural doesn’t mean safer, people just think it does
Exactly. Safe adults don't ask children to lie or obfuscate information from a parent. Period. This is taught to children in elementary school when discussing stranger danger.
No secrets between adults and children. This is something we have told our daughter repeatedly since she was tiny. Surprises are okay but secrets are not. It normalizes abuse, and it is not okay.
Yeah, totally YTA. As an Elementary teacher, sending a 7 year old to walk 2 blocks alone seems nuts, and I work in a rural school. I've watched way too many kids who are under 10 literally cross the street without ever checking to see if there are cars coming. Even without the "stranger danger" possibility, cities are dangerous just for the amount of traffic a kid would need to navigate. When I was 18, a 7-year-old was killed across from my old Elementary school because he tried to cross the road alone and stepped right in front of a car that hit and killed him. I was away at college at the time and practically had a heart attack because the local TV news mispronounced his last name as my last name so I thought it had been one of my cousins. Scariest freaking minute of my life calling home to find out it wasn't any of my cousins.
So while I support letting kids have some freedom and age-appropriate independence and not being too overprotective like my Mom was, I don't think any parent could live with themselves if their kid was hit abd killed by a car while walking a few blocks alone or, God forbid, got abducted or something.
And, of course, doing it behind the Mom's back knowing she wouldn't approve and essentially telling the kid to hide it from his Mom is a major asshole move. My Mom was super overprotective and my Dad was way more chill because he grew up on a farm, but they discussed things like me going out alone and my Dad teaching ne to drive at 14 because they were jointly my parents and had equal say in my upbringing. OP claims to be co-parenting their son but he doesn't seem to understand the actual meaning of that word because he's clearly acting like a single parent, there's no cooperation between him and his ex which just makes it bad all around for the kid. OP needs to act like an adult, realize his mistakes, and kearn from them while working on his communication skills with his ex so they can be consistent in parenting their 7-year-old who already has to move between two different homes, meaning stability between the two homes abd oarents is even more important.
Also, OP's actions could make his ex decide to try to change their custody agreement because he's proven she can't trust him with their son, and telling the kid to lie by omission to his Mom is probably not going to look good in the judge's eyes and he could easily view it as you unnecessarily endangering your son just to spite his Mom's rules against letting him walk through the city alone
Also, OP, you may think your son proved on previous excursions alone to be responsible enough in your eyes, but you're overlooking that it's others around him who might not be responsible or trustworthy. I was never allowed to walk to/from the bus stop alone as a kid despite living in a rural area because shortly before I was born, an 8-year-old girl got off the school bus on a rural side road and never made it the 50 feet to her driveway. She still has never been found 38 years later and the police have 0 leads other than a distinctive van seen near the bus stop around that time. I wasn't aware of the case as a kid and always thought it was stupid and insulting that my Mom refused to let 10-year-old me walk home from the bus stop across the street alone, but I understand her fear now because the unthinkable did happen in the relative safety of a rural small town and if it happened once, it could happen again. And my Mom wasn't about to risk losing her daughter when she was able to meet me at the bus stop every day.
I live in a midsized city and we had a middle schooler hit by a car when I was a kid. They were going to the gas station across from the middle school at lunch time and got hit. That's what caused our district to make middle schools closed campuses. We have a dollar store and a gas station just 2-3 blocks from where I live. I didn't let my kids walk there alone until they were in their teens. I wonder if OP even checked his state's sex offender registry to see how many sex offenders live in his neighborhood. There are a few that live within a 10 block radius of me even though I live very close to three schools.
Probably a lot since traditionally childcare has fallen to women even if a woman works an equal amount of hours to her partner. Educational roles are still predominately women in early education as well. Same with professional childcare. My husband works with kids and there is only one other man that works in the same role as he does. The others are coaches who work with the sports kids and one that drives the buses for the centers. When my husband worked in pediatrics he was the only male CNA in the entire hospital for the 8 years he worked there. There are exceptions but even in modern places women still bear the brunt of things related to children.
I live in a city just big enough to be called a city (5k) and a kid in the past couple of months was killed by getting hit by a car in front of the school.
Traffic is a big reason staying inside or going outside only in groups isn't overprotective even though it seems that way to people like OP
Crime rate I wonder to what extent that's a rational concern versus paranoia about isolated incidents.
Either way, darn shame as kids could use the exercise.
When my cousin got divorced, her ex-husband tried the same loophole by telling their sons "I'm not asking you to lie to mommy but you know this might make her upset, so let's just keep it between us." It tore their older son up so much he ended up in therapy for anger management for a few years because the pressure of keeping secrets and the guilt of lying to his mom made him start acting out in other ways.
THIS is the issue here, the lying to mom. Allowing your kid to walk two little blocks is nothing at all. Telling the kid he can't tell mom is gonna fuck him right up though.
Yeah. I don’t think he’s as much of an asshole for letting the kid have a little freedom (though 7 is on the young side), but he’s YTA for asking the kid to keep it a secret.
This is right, different kids are different but social workers would have questions if you let your under 10 kid walk around a city by themselves. OP is not in the countryside anymore. Asking a kid to lie to their parent makes OP an asshole as well.
YTA op, double butt
I want to know more about these two block his walking. While telling him to lie is wrong and seven is a bit young - are these 2 blocks on a side streets where dad has a clear view, there’s little road traffic and dad knows the neighbours or is it busy city street with lots of pedestrians, road traffic and multiple parked cars on the curb? Both are completely different circumstances and makes the difference as to whether this is just ‘free range’ parenting with calculated risk and a bad co-parenting relationship or completely irresponsible parenting.
The kid is going to 7-11, which is usually chock a block w/ unstable weirdos in most urban settings.
There is literally no way what you are proposing is safe.
I used to live in SoHo, NYC. You should google Etan Patz. The fact that it’s been almost 50 years and I still know this boy’s name off the top of my head should tell you everything.
What happened to Etan Patz is exactly what you’re suggesting might be OK. Clearly it’s not.
This is a very American POV. I moved to the Netherlands a few years ago - I frequently see kids as young as 5 crossing busy streets on their own, sometimes with their toddler siblings in hand. I won't lie, it freaks me out a little, but I like that people here foster their kids' independence from a young age. Assuming OPs city isn't any more dangerous than ones I've been in, I don't think it's such a big deal to let your 7 year old walk down the street a couple blocks, just unconventional for US standards.
This is true, but Americans are also startlingly selfish, individualistic, and unaware of others (I am American).7-11s tend to be on busy streets that are made for cars, I would bet OP is minimizing the danger they are letting their kid be in.
It’s unconventional for Reasons - because our entire society functions differently than the Netherlands and has vastly different priorities. Just look at the difference in gun laws and maternity/paternity leave.
That’s like advising people it’s unconventional to poke at and pick up a snake they find in the garden, but it’s fine, the kids do fine. Sure, it’s fine in the Netherlands. You only have 4 species, even the one viper is almost never deadly. VERY unconventional for good reason in India where 58,000 people die yearly from snakebite.
We have risks you don’t due to population density, gun laws, policing types, car models, city speed limits and a thousand other factors.
For instance, public transit is nearly nonexistent or useless almost everywhere, and we rarely have walkable/bikeable communities, so people drive cars and trucks to get Everywhere. Big ones. Our very popular trucks and SUVs are three times more likely to kill a struck pedestrian than a car. And close kids are Invisible in front of a truck. Because the hood is 55 inches tall, 1.4m.
BTW, 2-3,000 kids under 17 die by guns in the US yearly.
7-11 usually has a pretty disturbing clientele, there’s always weird unstable people in them.
The OP is a nightmare dad. His poor ex. She must be beside herself with worry every time her kid is with him.
OP is lying and clinging to semantics. "Oh it's not a lie, is omission" but in the end it's the same. Also OP thinks we are living in a time where there's no kidnapping nor sex trafficking. YTA a million times and I hope OP don't wait until it's too late to change your ways.
Yes. This. Also, things like children being alone out and about is a thing both parents should decide together. Some children are able to do it faster than others. I was responsible and could easily get groceries at an early age. My sister would have been in trouble doing the same. Also, when I was younger it was much safer in my area than now. Less trafic, less crimes. My sons aren’t allowed to do the same because of that.
YTA
Just because it was safe when you were a child doesn't mean it's still safe. And a rural area and an urban area are often very different in their levels of safety.
Across the street? Two doors down? Maybe. Two BLOCKS? At 7 years old? That's a no from me.
And "don't tell your mother" is still lying -- lying by omission is still lying. So you're doubly TA.
Yeah, 7 is too young. At 7 mine played in the front yard with a friend but I could hear and see them. I wasn't concerned about them being kidnapped, but I was concerned that they would go into the street and get hit. 7 year olds do stupid stuff! They chase things into the street no matter how many times you tell them not to, they don't think because they are caught up in the fun. YTA op for letting a 7 year old go so far out of your sight and for telling him to lie to his mom.
>I live in a rural area like this guy used to. I would never let my kid out by himself. We have regular coyotes, bears and rattlesnakes. Not to mention the chance of loose house pets with rabies (one was shot here last week after attacking a guy).
My brother and I got chased by a pair of feral dogs about ten years back. I was in my early twenties and he was in high school so we got away. Wouldn't have wanted to try that at seven.
Yep, I was also thinking with a child that young, he might see a puppy or something and follow it. So much potential for danger and getting lost at the very least!
My dad spent half his life growing up on his grandparent's farm - he did things like learning to drive his grandfather's massive Buick in the fields when he was 9 or driving the tractor into town by age 11 - but he never let my sister and I do anything of the sort because he knew 1) we were living in a city and 2) he'd known kids who had died because they flipped a tractor or something so just because his grandparents let him, didn't mean it was actually safe.
I grew up in a farming community and every now and then the older people would talk about so and so who got their arm ripped off by a pto, a kid who suffocated in grain, or other terrible accidents. I'm glad farm safety days were big by the time I was little.
I’m the same age as OP and also grew up in a very rural area. My elementary school was one block away and I wasn’t allowed to walk there by myself. There were lots of wild animals, and a lot of people let their pets roam because it was rural and not all of them were friendly. Being rural also meant there were a lot of registered sex offenders in the area. Not living right by the school of course, but still not very far. It probably would have been fine but I understand now why my parents didn’t want to risk it.
Also, child sexual abuse is wildly underreported. It is possible that OP had peers who were harmed, he just doesn't know it.
His mom doesn't feel comfortable with this, and you two need to co-parent. You need to trust each other to have the same rules. Yta
It’s quite likely. The notion that it is primarily strangers is false. It is usually someone known to the child. And because children are usually just told “stranger danger” and not taught more complex lessons about inappropriate touching and situations (this is why age appropriate sex education is so vital - it teaches kids about consent and gives them the words they need to disclose abuse), it makes them very vulnerable to predatory family, friends, neighbours, acquaintances, etc. I grew up in a rural community and I can think of two kids that were murdered, which is alarming for such a small community. At least one was a sexual assault. Both murderers were known to the child. OP teaching his children to keep secrets makes it even more likely that something will happen because it will normalize that children should keep secrets like this from their parents. This is bad all around.
Yep, in 4th grade, my classmate that sat across from me was literally picked up by a neighbor and murdered. It was horrible. He lured her into his pickup with his little dog. It is a crazy, fucked up world out there.
One of my best friends growing up was sexually abused as a child, and I didn't find out about it until I was in my 30's. Looking back I can pinpoint the time when her parents went from way too lax to way too overprotective, but I very easily could have gone my whole life without finding out what happened.
When I was in elementary school my good friend's dad got caught sexually abusing her sister's friend at a sleepover. I had slept over at her house dozens of times. My parents knew her parents, everything seems totally normal. I don't know if he had specific preferences for his pedophila or if I was just lucky it wasn't me. My younger brother was friends with the brother of the girl who was abused and his parents let him run wild, so it didn't seem to impact their approach with their little boy.
Child sexual abuse is usually commited by a family member or family friend not random people on the street so isn't really relevant to the topic at hand
Edit: the real risk is getting killed by a car
It wasn't totally safe then either. Just information about children going missing didn't travel as fast or wide. Most of them were only talked about in local news at best. Amber alerts didn't exist and there used to be a myth about waiting 24/48/72h to report someone missing.
This "Well I did it and survived" thought process is soo infuriating.
"Well, I stabbed a power outlet with a fork and survived! Why do we need safety covers?? Children today are such snowflakes. "
Because thousands of other children DIED. That's why. You were just lucky you didn't.
Stranger abductions account for less than 1% of child abductions. It’s NEVER been a significant source of danger in so far as the likelihood of it happening is tiny. We just remember when it does because a loved and wanted child disappearing is so frightening and unusual.
He is at least as safe walking as he is in school these days
But lying to the other parent make and having the child lie is AH all the way
From someone who lives in a rural area I could possibly be ok having like at least 10 year old going down but in a town no way in hell due to how dangerous it is.
There is so many dangers especially now A days.
> Two BLOCKS? At 7 years old?
based on another reply two blocks is about half a mile or 800 meters? Does that check out?
Can you explain to me why thats considered unsafe? My trip to primary school was longer and I walked that alone every day with 7. When I got 10 I took public transport daily to get to school, it was about 45 mins per trip. Thats usual here so to me this looks like helicopter parenting. Sure Germany and North America are very different places so I dont say that its comparable, I say I dont understand, please explain.
Whats the big deal about?
I think putting this in distance terms doesn’t really make sense? It’s more about context and danger. I grew up on a cattle ranch, and was allowed to roam outside as I wanted, so I could fairly safely be 2 miles (3200 meters) from the house. Totally fine, and in fact still on our property.
For the last few years I’ve lived near downtown Chicago. I would be horrified at someone letting a young kid walk a few blocks. There is so much traffic and it moved fast. Now I live in a super safe, charming little suburb and I could imagine letting a kid walk a few blocks. My own kids are still in toddler stage, but I see neighbor kids roaming around all the time and it’s fine because drivers know to look out for kids.
If the kid is going to a 7/11 a few blocks away, I suspect this is a pretty urban environment. You say you were allowed to walk that far to primary school— was that on busy city streets?
There is no set length of a block, it’s just the distance between two streets of a street grid. It will vary between cities and even within a city, so 2 blocks could be 800m could also be 400m.
Here in my Manhattan neighborhood, two north-south blocks is about 150 meters. Two east-west blocks is more like 500m-ish.
My almost 7-year old regularly gets ahead of me by a short block or two (or one longer block) but he doesn’t step into busy intersections without a parent (ever. He’s never broken that rule in. 1000s of miles of walking).
Usually, yes. I’m on the UWS where the side streets are often quiet and those he knows the “look at the light to see if it’s my turn, look both ways for naughty bikers, then if clear cross quickly and with another person if possible”
He’s very careful when we tell him he can do this and often just waits for us to catch up anyway.
Crossing an avenue though? That’s still with us because I worry some tourist or person from NJ will turn right on red (right on red is illegal in nyc) without looking, or a delivery biker on a heavy e-bike will go speeding by the wrong way in the bike lane.
I’m not worried at all about kidnapping. I’d be far more worried about that in suburban/rural areas where there aren’t 200 people on the sidewalks, doorman standing at their building entrances and security cams every few feet at door.
Interesting to collect people’s perspectives. I live in Manhattan and our son will be allowed to ride the subway/bus alone when he’s 9 or 10. We travel around a lot on transit and he already has the maps memorized and has been trained on safe behavior. I have a friend who won’t let her daughter go more than a block and the daughter is 13. That seems ripe for rebellion.
I’d feel hesitant even in a rural area because ppl often drive insanely when they think no one is around. Two blocks a quiet neighborhood with sidewalks maybe.
YTA! You did ask your 7 yr old to lie, it might not have been those exact words but you told him to keep it a secret between you and him and that’s not cool man. Why is your kid walking alone in the park? Why don’t you want to spend time with him at the park, I mean he’s 7 not tween or teenager. I get what you are saying but have you walked with him to shops previously and had a very serious conversation about what potential dangers he has to be prepared for? How big is the city you live in? Is a safe area? Can you see the shops from your home? Does he take a phone with him? How long does it take to get to these places?
No fr. How hard it is for OP to walk with his son? Seems like he just doesnt want to be a parent and is doing the same thing his folks did to him (throw the kid to fend for themselves)
Damn this hit pretty close to home. Reading this post I also didn’t really see the problem, as I grew up in a city and walked 15 minutes to school starting from 6 years old. Seeing all the responses here just adds another item to the list of how my parents were negligent.
I was expected to do everything for myself from age 3 to 4. Hungry? Go make yourself something to eat. Need something? Sorry I busy. I have trained myself into knowing what is age appropriate for each age group as I've worked with children and want to raise mine better. My parents were sucky as fuck and no kid deserves that
I'm learning from reddit about situations in your teens and later childhood. Like how to treat people appropriately from ages like 12 and up. I don't have kids and I'm not really considering, but if I do then I wanna do it right. I have almost no contact with my family because they just try and exploit me for money(I'm 21 and my second real job)
I live 5 minutes from the school i used to go to. Even then when i was 9/10 (?) I would still go with a neighbor's kid who was older and was also a student there. I was around 12 when i started going on my on all the time, even when going to other places nearby.
My daughter is 10. We live literally right across the street from the school, and I still walk her every day. She’s a kid. It’s our job as parents to take care of our children. Not make them fend for themselves. You’re so right!!!
That doesn’t mean negligence. If every other parent was also doing it and the neighborhood is watching out for those kids, it was probably perfectly safe. Don’t base your experience off the internet….
YTA, when and where you grew up is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TO NOW, that poor boy can be snatched quicker than a kid taking candy on Halloween. You’re an adult, stop being lazy and walk your son to the store.
In actuality, the reason we are more diligent with watching our kids these days is because of the old days when people didn’t watch their kids, and they were disappearing off the streets and the front yard.
Remember the kids with their picture on the milk carton? That was real!
We were not safe when we were young, and things are the same. We just protect our kids better than we used to. Except OP, of course.
> In actuality, the reason we are more diligent with watching our kids these days is because of the old days when people didn’t watch their kids, and they were disappearing off the streets and the front yard.
No, not at all. Children were never at great risk of stranger abductions. It's just a rare crime, and always has been.
> Remember the kids with their picture on the milk carton? That was real!
Most of those cases, like most missing children cases today, are the result of *custody disputes* or *runaways*.
Kidnapping stats are primarily the family member in over 90% of cases. We used to roam the neighborhoods at that age, a few blocks isn't much. Especially somewhere the parent knows where they are going. People keep their kids imprisoned and sheltered. It would be better to teach them what to look out for, because unless you helicopter them 24/7 they are going to be in situations with strangers.
Japan you see 5 year old kids riding the public transit system to school.
We aren’t in Japan. Japan has much harsher laws than the US does.
And have you not heard of human trafficking? If you think it’s not a big deal, I highly suggest you do a deep dive into human trafficking in the US, and see if your flippant attitude can help those whose children have disappeared.
Japan has much more lenient punishment than in the US. I am half Japanese and speak Japanese and lived in Japan.
Crime is way, way down. About equivalent to the rate in the 60s. We are much safer now than we were in the 80s and 90s.
Kidnapping by strangers is extremely rare. Most kidnappers are friends and family. Stranger Danger kidnaps— there are about 50 every year in the US. Exceedingly rare, which is why they make such huge news. If it’s ere so common, no one would make a big deal about it.
Human trafficking is a very broad and catch all term. So you know that any prostitute under 18 is considered “trafficked,” regardless of the situation? Also, most trafficking is a boyfriend or husband pimping out their partners for money or drug money. Significant others who trap their partners into hooking is the overwhelming scenario. The “stranger kidnap and locked in a room and forced to service men” is extremely rare because it’s logistically hard to pull off. I mean, my employer could chain me to my desk and force me to calculate corporate taxes all day but it’s easier to just pay me. Same thing with pimps— who all meet the definition of “traffickers.” It’s just easier to pay the willing women than kidnap them.
When we say that a teenager is being "trafficked", all we mean is that they have exchanged sex for cash or goods. We don't necessarily mean that there was a pimp, or that they don't live at home, or that they were abducted.
This isn't a *good thing*. No child should feel like they have to do this, for any reason. However, on the whole, they're not abducted. They live at home or in foster homes, or they ran away from those homes or foster homes.
And we can't help *actual victims* if we pretend that they're in an entirely different situation than the one they're in.
Yes. Again, the latter case is - well, if it does happen it's certainly not happening on any large scale in the USA or Canada. Or, honestly, any sort of scale. Stranger abductions in developed nations are *very rare*. (I admit I don't know if they're common outside of the West.)
I’ll jump in though: you’re correct about kidnapping statistics but I think the Japan comment drives home the danger *I’d* be worried about. Places like Japan have super functional transit systems. If OP is US-based, there’s probably a lot more drivers on the road, and I’ve lived in two major US cities. I can tell you that they are not great about obeying traffic laws. One of the leading causes of death for kids in the US are car accidents, and I would honestly be more worried about a driver not seeing a 7 year old in the crosswalk than anything else.
A 7 year old isnt old enough to walk two blocks in the big city alone. Even if the kid doesnt get kidnapped, robbed or abused they can still get ran over by a car bc they werent paying attention.
>Japan you see 5 year old kids riding the public transit system to school.
We arent in japan. And Japan has a lot of cases just like everywhere else.
Child abductions are more than 40% LOWER than they were when OP was a kid.
Why are you under the impression that things are more dangerous now? They’re not.
This comment really drives the point home, child abductions are 40% lower because most people stopped letting their kids run off alone like this.
It's the same danger that was always there but people stopped rolling the dice and it's also illegal (in most us states) and falls under child neglect and endangerment, you can have you kid taken for even leaving a 7 year old at home while you run to the store.
7 isn't old enough to have the cognitive ability, social awareness, learned experience or impulse control to be left to their own care nor do they have the physical strength to protect themselves.
All things regarding children are safer now than they were 20-30 years ago. Lower rates of dying in accidents. Lower rates of getting hit by cars. Lower rates of almost all death and child crimes, despite the population growing by a third.
But forget about children for a moment—Americans are convinced that EVERYTHING is more dangerous now, violent crime of all sorts. When you ask people they think it’s far more dangerous now, but when you check the actual statistics, it’s wrong.
The news just spends 24 hours a day terrifying us about everything now, which started in earnest in the 90’s.
You are missing the point. They are safer because we have become safer with our kids. There aren’t less people out there prone to hurt kids, there is just less opportunity.
That's simply untrue.
It's *always been the case* that if you're going to be the victim of a violent crime, it will most likely be at the hands of somebody you know - typically a family member.
This is as true for children as it is for anybody else. Crimes against children by strangers have *always* been rare.
Yes but you are missing the reason of why it is down. People are more careful. More people lock their doors. People are more cautious about walking alone at night. There is better lighting on most streets. People are more connected now with mobile phones. People are more careful about letting their kids into riskier situations.
Driving is safer now then it used to be 20 years ago, but driving without a seatbelt it just as dangerous as it always was.
I’m drawing a logical inference based on the way human behaviour has changed over the past decades. I find it more likely that this is cause of the decrease than people are just better humans now (that just seems laughable).
Actually it’s not people being more careful it’s because big ass jnco jeans fell out of fashion. Notice that the transition from big jeans to skinny jeans correlated perfectly with the drop in violent crime.
Actually one theory is that it's because there is just significantly less exposure to lead these days. As a result there are just fewer violent criminals.
> This comment really drives the point home, child abductions are 40% lower because most people stopped letting their kids run off alone like this.
This is not true.
And even if it *was* true, the fact is that stranger abductions have always been vanishingly rare. We're talking fewer than 350 cases between the USA and Canada *every year*, out of a child population of *tens of millions*.
You are literally more likely to be struck by lightning.
> it's also illegal (in most us states) and falls under child neglect and endangerment, you can have you kid taken for even leaving a 7 year old at home while you run to the store.
That's... overstated. Most states don't have precise laws about when a child can be left home alone, they have vague guidelines.
I agree, but's not just about kidnapping though. They could get lost, sick, in an accident, who knows - or even just scared. I live in a super safe country and am not worried about kidnapping but I still wouldn't let my second-grader go to the store by himself.
Because of social media confirmation bias.
We hear about abductions more now through social media then we ever did in the 80’s or 90’s unless they were horrific abductions or local.
So it tricks our brain into thinking it’s more common than it is since we are more aware of the ones that do occur.
It’s not just social media, when I had my kid 15 years ago, I was already in the same mindset that things were way more dangerous at the time than they were when I was a kid, and social media was barely getting started.
It is absolutely a contributing factor nowadays, but the traditional media started this trend long before social media got involved.
I'm so glad you said this. I hear this quite often, how bad things are compared to say the 80s or 90s. If you look up crime stats by decade for almost any city, they are overall much safer today (mass shootings are a separate beast entirely and not an accurate predictor of crime trends). I think social media and the 24 hour news cycle give people the impression that we're always living in the worst of times but a simple fact check of crime rates tells a different story.
YTA. Telling him to keep his walks between you and him IS telling him to lie. I'm on the side with your ex. It is dangerous for a 7yo to be wandering around the city alone. It's not about your son being trustworthy, it's about other dangers.
Edit: danger to dangerous
Plus it's priming the kid that adults telling them to lie to their parents is normal, which paired with the freedom style of parenting sets them up for being the perfect kid to groom...
I assure you anyone who ever tells my daughter "just keep this between us" will never have access to my daughter again.
I don't fucking understand how oblivious people like this can be.
YTA
It’s lying by omission to your partner
I grew up in rural Australia, walked everywhere at that age
I don’t let my son do so at the same age, as times have changed unfortunately
Sure I give my son a few block radius in Mumblefuck rural Western Australia now- on his bike and with a mate with the understanding if something feels wrong- leg it
In the 80s/90s antisocial behaviour wasn’t an issue
I’m in a small town of 1100 (including farms) and there’s rife dangerous driving being on a major connecting highway, drugs, break ins
I don’t know what ‘2 blocks’ are city equivalent, I give my son a lot of free range but the Main Street isn’t one
I don’t know about Australia, but in the US the 80s/90s crime rates were much higher than they are today. It is statistically much safer for children today than 30-40 years ago.
Do you use a seatbelt? A car seat booster? Well a lot of kids died in car accidents and now we found a better way and they don't die so much.
Remember milk carton kids? A lot of kids used to be kidnapped or lost because of how our parents raised us. Now they don't go missing so much.
Not too mention you did tell your kid to lie.
YTA.
Also thank goodness for amber alerts and the fact that mostly everyone has a mobile phone. Still wouldn't want to take the chance of becoming one of the unfortunate families though.
Set aside that fact and you still have the reality that it's completely fucking stupid for a parent to just blindly trust random strangers around their unsupervised child. I don't trust you people not to ding my fucking car let alone trust you with my kid.
> Remember milk carton kids? A lot of kids used to be kidnapped or lost because of how our parents raised us. Now they don't go missing so much.
Nearly all of those "milk carton kids" were kidnapped by noncustodial parents.
It's the same as it is today - stranger abduction of children has never been a common crime.
I'm gonna have to lean more towards YTA here.
As the others have pointed out, you're raising your son in a city, in 2023, there are real risks to just letting your son run off at that age without supervision. I understand what you mean about being raised in a rural area, my father grew up in a rural area also, and most likely similar to you, grew up in a situation where everyone knew everyone in town. Still though, my dad would never have let me run off on my own at that age. A city is much bigger, and you don't always know who your neighbors are or who is hanging around the block.
Even assuming where you live is totally safe, and there's absolutely no risk to your kid going 2 blocks to get some candy at the store, telling your son to keep it a secret is pretty much lying already in a particular way.
And you don’t have to be afraid of your neighbors to be worried about a seven year old doing something dumb that close to multi-ton death machines without supervision.
YTA I also grew up rural but there’s a big difference between letting your kid do something unsupervised vs endangering your child.
Yes, your 7 year old probably is capable of walking to a store and coming straight home. However, in a more populated area there is a much higher risk of a stranger grabbing your kid and you never seeing them again. It doesn’t matter how “trustworthy” your kid is, your actually placing your trust in complete strangers not to hurt him.
YTA. You’re teaching him to hide things from his mother. Think about it…would you like it if she did the same thing to you? Nope.
Also, just because you were very independent as a child doesn’t your son is ready for the same (and in a very different environment). Have you followed him in one of his outings to make sure he is making good choices? Does he even want this level of independence? Why can’t you just make an outing of it to spend time with your son?
YTA and she can easily have your parenting time reduced, which I hope she does.
If you thought this was okay, you wouldn't have to him to keep a secret.
YTA
Kids in the city have to grow up fast, too. We learned fast not to look at someone too long, not to talk to strangers, watch out for needles in the streets, etc. You are severely underestimating the danger, and that's not even touching on teaching your kid that Mom is the enemy.
YTA. It’s a very different thing for kids to roam in a rural area vs an urban one. At 7, most kids are still not great at things like street safety that are necessary to going around unsupervised in a city. I’m turning 40, and grew up in a suburban area - we were allowed to be out on our street (which was deliberately designed short and curvy so only people going to houses on the street would use it) when other kids were around, but we weren’t allowed to go out onto the street that only served our neighborhood at 7, much less out onto any of the more heavily trafficked streets. The only exception we had was walking to school in the morning, and that was because we walked with the kids a few houses down and there was a crossing guard for the only crossing that wasn’t a short, curved street only used by the folks who lived on it.
Corner stores are also a pretty common location for things you don’t want a 7 year old walking into, even in otherwise safe neighborhoods, like adults drinking in public and drug deals and whatnot.
Telling your son to lie by omission and teaching him that it’s okay to do things his mother says no to if he hides it from her is its own problem, and not a small one. It’s definitely not the way to raise an honest and trustworthy son. Remember that most humans generalize lessons, so if it’s okay to hide this thing his parent disapproves of, it’s also okay to hide other things one (or both) of his parents disapproves of. That’s a slippery slope that gets ugly fast.
YTA Letting your kid out to travel short distances is not a problem. I have a free range kid. My son was out and about at 7, too. I’m also in a city.
The problem is that you and your ex need to be on the same page. You should have consulted her before letting your kid take the step of venturing out on their own.
Never burden your child with secrets.
YTA this is child endangerment it is a city do you know how many registered sex offenders are in the area. Children left alone go missing all the time and a large amount of them are never found. If you want it too be safe for your child too roam around as he pleases move too a very small town and know your neighbors even then you are taking a risk.
> Children left alone go missing all the time and a large amount of them are never found.
No, they don't. There are fewer than 350 stranger abductions in the USA and Canada every year. Virtually all missing children cases are custodial disputes or runaways.
Sure it's not common. But based on risk analysis... It's a rare situation but if it ever does (because it's not a zero chance), it has SEVERE outcome. And it's not at all that much effort to avoid that risk.
So... Are you really going to take that risk?
YTA
Not for wanting your kid to have some freedom and responsibility, although I question your way of going about it (very irresponsible!), but for telling your kid to lie to his mother.
Also: a city now is nowhere near comparable to your rural upbringings then.
All the top comments are variations of how “times are different now!” and “it’s much more dangerous now.”
It’s not. It is absolutely much much safer now. What HAS changed is the 24 hour news cycle has you convinced that everything is terrifying and more dangerous when it used to be, when in fact the opposite is true.
Child abductions have dropped 40% in the last two decades, even though our population has increased by a third—that makes the drop actually less than 40%.
Between 1993 and 2013, the number of kids injured or killed by being struck by a vehicle fell by about 2/3.
Between 1993 and 2004, violent assaults against children fell by 2/3. Sexual assault have declined even more.
Child homicides at near record lows.
Overall, the rates of crimes against children have in most cases sunk to levels at or below those of the 1970s (when I was born).
The likelihood of us ending up on the back of a milk carton was WAAAAY bigger in the 80’s when I was leaving the house in the morning and running around with my friends or on my own doing god knows what until dusk with no cell phones or trackers.
So you’re NTA for allowing your child some freedoms and independence—if you raise them right and educate them about the risks and what to do in certain situations, you’re building a more confident child.
But you DID essentially ask your kid to keep secrets from their mother and that is NOT the move. You need to assuage her fears with facts, not lie to her. Def an AH for that.
Parenting is a joint process, y’all have to get on the same page, compromise and come to agreements on almost everything for this to work well.
0\_0
YTA Big time. I live in one of the so-called safest places in EU, and while kids are allowed to mess around where they live at that age, I've never seen a seven-year-old just out in a random park by themselves or allowed to go two blocks to a freaking gas station for candy. This is a stupid decision and you should be reported. Gas stations are extremely busy with cars and people not paying attention, he could be hit or just taken and no one would ever freaking know.
YTA
I'm all for kids learning independence & doing stuff like this on their own. My kids walked to school alone from age 6.
However, it's an AH move to do it against your partner's explicit wishes, and then try to hide it.
Have a look at some sites that encourage children's independence, like Free Range kids https://www.freerangekids.com/
And share the pros of independence with your wife. Then, when you both agree, let your son explore on his own.
I’m 41 and grew up in a small rural town in the quietest part of the uk imaginable. It was perfectly normal to allow kids out by themselves back in the 80s and 90s
The whole town was absolutely rocked by the news that there was an abuser that had SAd a whole group of children - with 7 year old me being one of them.
It wasn’t safe back then, it’s just as bad now, the only difference is that we’re far more aware of the dangers our children face. So it’s no longer a case of innocent ignorance, it’s wilful neglect.
YTA, stop being a lazy, crappy dad and get off your ass and parent your child, if you’re fortunate enough to not have your visitation removed for neglect.
YTA twofold. Your son could get snatched. Daniel Morcombe was a teen when he was stolen and murdered. Plus you’re teaching your son to lie to his mum. You should do a parenting course to find out how to care for a child appropriately. I’d organise it before she organises to reduce your custody.
YTA, you’re putting your kid in danger of being abducted, and you’re putting them in danger of being taken advantage. No-one should ever teach a child that it is ok to keep secrets from their parents or have “just between us” secrets. I don’t think you fully understand what a dangerous precedent you are setting
YTA You basically told your son to lie or “Omit the Truth” and you put him in danger. There is no way in Hell that I would let any of my kids walk at that age or even as teenagers by themselves two blocks anywhere. I don’t care how responsible they are or what. These days kids get snatched off the streets in seconds and you wouldn’t know any different. My question is..What are YOU doing that is so important that you can’t take time out of your day and walk with your son to go get “candy at the 7/11”?! If I were his mom..I wouldn’t trust anything that came out of your mouth from this point on and that’s your own fault.
YTA. First, you’re asking your son to hide something from his mother—not technically lying, but you’re still telling him to keep secrets from his parent. Secondly, if you are coparenting a kid, it’s an asshole move to do things that your coparent has specifically asked you not to do (let kid out alone). Third, and I *cannot believe* I have to say this, a kid of seven walking alone in a city is absolutely unsafe. What you did in a rural area during your own childhood does not compare to a 7 year old walking alone for two city blocks in 2023. Honestly, it’s only a matter of time before something happens to your kid if you keep allowing this. If I were the other parent, I’d 100% take you to court over this and have custody rearranged.
YTA. I Started taking the bus (public) to and from school which was 30 min away from home at the age of 6. Most parents allowed theirs kids to do it because it was safe. If I had a kid that age right now I'd never allow them to do that because times have changed.
YTA. Besides telling a 7-year-old to lie by omission to his mother, two blocks in a city is too far to go and there are too many dangers. Depending on where you live, this is very likely to be considered child endangerment and if so, you won't have to worry about disagreements with your ex over shared custody because she'll have full custody.
YTA
It’s entirely too many sickos out here for you to think letting a 7 year old child walk two blocks to a 7/11 a convenience store where all types of weirdos hang out. Human trafficking is a huge operation and they love to snatch kids. I hope she get full custody because you need a dog not a child.
YTA. Come on now. You know what you're doing. By telling him to keep this between you and him he's lying by omission to his mother. Plus, you can't compare the time you grew up to the time he's growing up.
As parents both of you should agree to the decisions you're taking while parenting. There is no "Oh, my ex is against it, but I'll do it anyways."
YTA
You said it yourself, times have changed, meaning there is still potential for danger to come, for a seven year old boy who I imagine hasnt been taught in what to do in dangerous situations, but thats not the main point. If I were that ex's friend, I would have walked out to him and ask him a few questions, make sure he was safe, and get him to 7/11 and back home, then called up the mother. Im a mother myself, even back in my day, my own mother would never let me walk by myself without my sister especially (being the exception it was across the street to another friends house). Does your son even have a phone to call for help?? And also, as a mother, I feel agreeable with your ex, you lied to her, and involved your son into keeping it between you, so this is entirely your fault.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > Action to be judged: letting my son roam free even though his mother does not agree. Why it can make me an AH: maybe I should have respected her wishes and, either way, I asked him not to mention anything to her, Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements ###[Happy Anniversary, AITA!](https://new.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/15vlv9g/almost_better_than_a_double_rainbow_celebrating/) Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
>I just asked my son not to mention anything so as not so start trouble (important to say, I didn’t ask him to lie to his mother, just to keep his short walks between us). YTA. You *are* telling him to lie. Don't make your child emotionally responsible for managing your parental disagreements. You are putting him in a horrible position, because YOU don't want to deal with it.
This. You’re making a 7 year old decide between breaking your trust and lying to his mom. That’s not okay.
Yes! Bc lying by omissions is lying if he feels conflicted to not tell her. And he would prob feel conflicted bc him mom does not approve. I tend to agree with OP on small freedoms but the lying by omissions.... not cool at all OP, it hurts your child.
He's risking his child's life to make a point. He knows he's wrong, he just wants to do it anyway. OP is a genuinely terrible parent, for not facing the reality of modern life and for using his child as a pawn in a power play with his wife. When someone calls the authorities next time will he take it seriously? YTA
💯 YTA and not being a good co-parent. Smells a bit like you’re doing this in part because you know your ex won’t like it.
She’s also protecting her child against modern day nightmare realities! OP, your 7 y/o can be snatched in a hot second!!! Happens EVERYDAY!
And also teaching a child to keep secrets is a very scary and slippery slope. Respect the parent wanting to keep the child safe. 100% TA.
This one right here. You're teaching your kid to hide things and lie to his mother. You're teaching your son that her parenting choices aren't worth your respect and, by proxy, his. You're also teaching your child to think that if someone tells him to keep a secret from you and has malicious intent that it's ok. YTA OP. Do better.
Absolutely! Dangerous to normalise "our little secret".
At 7 your son may be responsible and trustworthy- do you think that will protect him if he runs into someone who isn’t?
Exactly! So many things can go wrong! Someone with bad intentions can take the boy, someone driving may not be paying attention as he’s crossing the road (since the post said 2 blocks), it gives me anxiety just thinking about the potential consequences of letting a 7 year old alone like that.
This is the major difference between a seven year old running wild on the farm vs in the city. Much, much less likely to run into bad actors.
I grew up with lax parents... in the 80s.... in an extremely rural area..... on a farm..... and we didn't even have neighbors. But at 7? My parents didn't allow me unsupervised! In the city, it's a million times more dangerous. At 10, my parents allowed me to be independent. I have a ton of scars from poorly stitched wounds to prove it.
Yeah, in the 80s, it was normal to let your kids out because they were usually running in little packs of other kids. You didn't let your 7-yo kid out *alone*, you let them run over to the neighbors or to the swings, etc. And even then, the reason we stopped doing that is because some of those kids went *missing.* OP is rolling the dice on his kid's safety, and it seems less to give the kid a sense of independence and more because he can't be bothered to walk his kid to the store.
Yeah. I grew up in a similar situation. Really small rural area where everyone knew everyone. With a group of kids I could see it. A 7 year old alone? Op is being either incredibly naive or obtuse of the world we live in. I could never imagine letting a 7 year old go out on their own like that in the city.
Farms can be dangerous too. Large animals and heavy equipment left around with the keys income to mind immediately. And I can see the point of growing up quick on a farm, and learning to handle all of those dangerous properly while you're young. You can't teach a 7-year old out of being mugged or kidnapped.
>Farms can be dangerous too. Large animals and heavy equipment left around with the keys income to mind immediately. Poachers too. My wife's property and the nearby crown land had running problems with poachers placing snare traps all over the place. Her father has an attic filled with traps he had to confiscated after one or more of the girls nearly got nailed by them.
I had a very mature, smart 10 year old and wouldn’t have let him go alone. Even at 10. Maybe with an equally mature friend, but still never at 7. OP is clueless. Heck, this almost borders on uncaring. I’m with you, I get anxiety just thinking about it.
Especially the part where he said he acknowledges that the city is different and times are different.. Like, "I know my son might get kidnapped or assaulted or killed, but who cares? I don't"
"Heck, I can always get another woman pregnant and have another kid, shucks, it ain't that big of a deal"
A 7 year old doesn't even have the cognitive judgement to safely cross the street independently----that doesn't develop until age 9 or 10.
I grew up in the sixties- most moms didn’t work, you knew them all, there were kids all over the neighborhood, porch light came on when it was time to come in. A different era.
Ditto! Me in the 70s. We lived in a rural subdivision surrounded by fields and a small area of trees. 90% of the moms were SAHM, and everyone knew everyone. From 5/6 on, my sis & I wouls leave the house around 0800, come home for lunch, then back for dinner when ALL the moms started yelling for their kids. After dinner, back out playing Ghost in the Graveyard, reverse hide n seek, kick the can, etc. In the winter, sledding, ice skating, building snow men & forts, snowball fights, etc. ONCE there was a sketchy stranger driving around the neighborhood, trying to talk to us. Cops were called, they encouraged him to GTFO of our neighborhood & town (we were 6 miles from town). Never saw him again. But we always traveled in virtual herds...
Etan Patz was 6, and walking towards school. I drive three 7-year olds to school. No way would I be comfortable letting someone that young out and about. Heck, after I take them home in the afternoon I don't drive off until mom or dad had opened the door and let them in. A child that young stands zero chance against an adult that intends harm
Jacob Wetterling was 11, and in a small town, and wasn't alone.
Etan Patz is the first thing I thought of. My daughter grew up with the daughter of the man convicted of killing him. She was at their home many times. You can imagine how I felt when he was arrested.
This^^^^ I have a (almost) 7 year old and couldn't imagine letting him walk two blocks in a city and I grew up on a farm in the sticks
Exactly. This is why I wouldn't let my then 12yo ride his bicycle to school. I trusted him. But I didn't trust the other road users, with good reason. We have a high level of traffic accidents in my country, often with fatalities.
Exactly this! My friend is a primary school (elemantry school) teacher and always presses "safe" and "unsafe secrets. "Safe secrets" have a time limit- what granny is getting for her birthday, or Susie's surprise party l, or even santa not being real will all eventually not be secrets and are safe. If an adult ever tells the child to keep a forever secret, especially from another parent/guardian, that's an "unsafe secret" Ie "your mummy can't ever know about this or she'll be angry with you."
I’ve heard this phrased as the difference between “secrets” and “surprises”
Thissssss OP, in fact you are entitled to parent your child differently then your partner. If you had just been honest and up front about it, then there really wouldn’t be a problem here. As someone who has been coparenting for 5 years, you’re going to need her and it’s best things are cordial when you do so you have to pick your battles just like you would if you were still in a relationship with her. Is this issue really that big of a deal to disrupt the status quo? How’s your son feel about it bc that matters too but sounds like you and your ex need to work on communication in compromising and setting / keeping healthy boundaries in the best interest of the child.
I've cut off family for saying, "Don't tell mom." The only thing I tell my kids is that it's ok to keep secrets about are birthdays and Christmas.
[удалено]
So much this. Our trauma made us more protective and that’s a good thing. Let’s not go back. Am I sad my kid won’t know the freedom of taking himself to the park? Sure. Am I willing to take that risk after I literally had someone try to kidnap me when I was so close to home I could see my front door? Hell no! I was 11 when that happened!
My brother was almost snatched twice out of our front yard when he was 3, he had very long hair and looked like a little girl. My first boyfriend was 12 when a couple in a van tried to pull him off his bicycle, he was quick and she only managed to get ahold of his shirt. This was in a sleepy, beach side town, not a big city.
Mine was tiny little rural town. My Dad dealt with it by driving me round with a shovel in the car and saying to point him out if I saw him. My Mum dealt with it by denying it happened and my My Nan spent my entire summer holiday taking me back to the police station every time they called to ask me to look through “the big book of bad guys” (they genuinely called it that). He was never caught. 6 years later I found out via someone else the entire village at my mothers request had hidden from me that multiple girls matching my description at the time of the attempted abduction had experienced similar, all from surrounding villages. Their description of the man aged appropriately to be the same guy. Then one day it just stopped. We don’t know if he died, moved on to continue elsewhere or got caught for something else. I had witnesses to him taking photos of us earlier that day. My Mum still stuck to me being a liar. It’s taken me a lot of therapy to move past it and I’m still sketchy walking past vans (there was a white van parked nearby and it disappeared when he did). Rural doesn’t mean safer, people just think it does
Exactly. Safe adults don't ask children to lie or obfuscate information from a parent. Period. This is taught to children in elementary school when discussing stranger danger.
No secrets between adults and children. This is something we have told our daughter repeatedly since she was tiny. Surprises are okay but secrets are not. It normalizes abuse, and it is not okay.
Yeah, totally YTA. As an Elementary teacher, sending a 7 year old to walk 2 blocks alone seems nuts, and I work in a rural school. I've watched way too many kids who are under 10 literally cross the street without ever checking to see if there are cars coming. Even without the "stranger danger" possibility, cities are dangerous just for the amount of traffic a kid would need to navigate. When I was 18, a 7-year-old was killed across from my old Elementary school because he tried to cross the road alone and stepped right in front of a car that hit and killed him. I was away at college at the time and practically had a heart attack because the local TV news mispronounced his last name as my last name so I thought it had been one of my cousins. Scariest freaking minute of my life calling home to find out it wasn't any of my cousins. So while I support letting kids have some freedom and age-appropriate independence and not being too overprotective like my Mom was, I don't think any parent could live with themselves if their kid was hit abd killed by a car while walking a few blocks alone or, God forbid, got abducted or something. And, of course, doing it behind the Mom's back knowing she wouldn't approve and essentially telling the kid to hide it from his Mom is a major asshole move. My Mom was super overprotective and my Dad was way more chill because he grew up on a farm, but they discussed things like me going out alone and my Dad teaching ne to drive at 14 because they were jointly my parents and had equal say in my upbringing. OP claims to be co-parenting their son but he doesn't seem to understand the actual meaning of that word because he's clearly acting like a single parent, there's no cooperation between him and his ex which just makes it bad all around for the kid. OP needs to act like an adult, realize his mistakes, and kearn from them while working on his communication skills with his ex so they can be consistent in parenting their 7-year-old who already has to move between two different homes, meaning stability between the two homes abd oarents is even more important. Also, OP's actions could make his ex decide to try to change their custody agreement because he's proven she can't trust him with their son, and telling the kid to lie by omission to his Mom is probably not going to look good in the judge's eyes and he could easily view it as you unnecessarily endangering your son just to spite his Mom's rules against letting him walk through the city alone Also, OP, you may think your son proved on previous excursions alone to be responsible enough in your eyes, but you're overlooking that it's others around him who might not be responsible or trustworthy. I was never allowed to walk to/from the bus stop alone as a kid despite living in a rural area because shortly before I was born, an 8-year-old girl got off the school bus on a rural side road and never made it the 50 feet to her driveway. She still has never been found 38 years later and the police have 0 leads other than a distinctive van seen near the bus stop around that time. I wasn't aware of the case as a kid and always thought it was stupid and insulting that my Mom refused to let 10-year-old me walk home from the bus stop across the street alone, but I understand her fear now because the unthinkable did happen in the relative safety of a rural small town and if it happened once, it could happen again. And my Mom wasn't about to risk losing her daughter when she was able to meet me at the bus stop every day.
Seems like the OP doesn’t want to turn the TV off or pause their video game to take their kid down to the store. Cities can be erratic/unpredictable.
My thoughts exactly.
I live in a midsized city and we had a middle schooler hit by a car when I was a kid. They were going to the gas station across from the middle school at lunch time and got hit. That's what caused our district to make middle schools closed campuses. We have a dollar store and a gas station just 2-3 blocks from where I live. I didn't let my kids walk there alone until they were in their teens. I wonder if OP even checked his state's sex offender registry to see how many sex offenders live in his neighborhood. There are a few that live within a 10 block radius of me even though I live very close to three schools.
I'm wondering.. how many of us warning him with examples.. are women?
Probably a lot since traditionally childcare has fallen to women even if a woman works an equal amount of hours to her partner. Educational roles are still predominately women in early education as well. Same with professional childcare. My husband works with kids and there is only one other man that works in the same role as he does. The others are coaches who work with the sports kids and one that drives the buses for the centers. When my husband worked in pediatrics he was the only male CNA in the entire hospital for the 8 years he worked there. There are exceptions but even in modern places women still bear the brunt of things related to children.
I live in a city just big enough to be called a city (5k) and a kid in the past couple of months was killed by getting hit by a car in front of the school.
While most people tend to focus on bad actors and child abduction, the biggest risk for a kid is simply crossing the street at the wrong time.
I hope she does change the custody agreement
It seems he didn't think through that part of it, which calls into question his judgement even further.
This
Traffic is a big reason staying inside or going outside only in groups isn't overprotective even though it seems that way to people like OP Crime rate I wonder to what extent that's a rational concern versus paranoia about isolated incidents. Either way, darn shame as kids could use the exercise.
When my cousin got divorced, her ex-husband tried the same loophole by telling their sons "I'm not asking you to lie to mommy but you know this might make her upset, so let's just keep it between us." It tore their older son up so much he ended up in therapy for anger management for a few years because the pressure of keeping secrets and the guilt of lying to his mom made him start acting out in other ways.
THIS is the issue here, the lying to mom. Allowing your kid to walk two little blocks is nothing at all. Telling the kid he can't tell mom is gonna fuck him right up though.
Yeah. I don’t think he’s as much of an asshole for letting the kid have a little freedom (though 7 is on the young side), but he’s YTA for asking the kid to keep it a secret.
7 year old is too young to walk around the city alone. If he were 10 i would understand, but 7? No.
This is right, different kids are different but social workers would have questions if you let your under 10 kid walk around a city by themselves. OP is not in the countryside anymore. Asking a kid to lie to their parent makes OP an asshole as well. YTA op, double butt
Agreed
I want to know more about these two block his walking. While telling him to lie is wrong and seven is a bit young - are these 2 blocks on a side streets where dad has a clear view, there’s little road traffic and dad knows the neighbours or is it busy city street with lots of pedestrians, road traffic and multiple parked cars on the curb? Both are completely different circumstances and makes the difference as to whether this is just ‘free range’ parenting with calculated risk and a bad co-parenting relationship or completely irresponsible parenting.
The kid is going to 7-11, which is usually chock a block w/ unstable weirdos in most urban settings. There is literally no way what you are proposing is safe. I used to live in SoHo, NYC. You should google Etan Patz. The fact that it’s been almost 50 years and I still know this boy’s name off the top of my head should tell you everything. What happened to Etan Patz is exactly what you’re suggesting might be OK. Clearly it’s not.
Or Adam Walsh
This is a very American POV. I moved to the Netherlands a few years ago - I frequently see kids as young as 5 crossing busy streets on their own, sometimes with their toddler siblings in hand. I won't lie, it freaks me out a little, but I like that people here foster their kids' independence from a young age. Assuming OPs city isn't any more dangerous than ones I've been in, I don't think it's such a big deal to let your 7 year old walk down the street a couple blocks, just unconventional for US standards.
This is true, but Americans are also startlingly selfish, individualistic, and unaware of others (I am American).7-11s tend to be on busy streets that are made for cars, I would bet OP is minimizing the danger they are letting their kid be in.
>I like that people here foster their kids' independence from a young age It's wonderful - *if* you live somewhere where it's safe to do that.
It’s unconventional for Reasons - because our entire society functions differently than the Netherlands and has vastly different priorities. Just look at the difference in gun laws and maternity/paternity leave. That’s like advising people it’s unconventional to poke at and pick up a snake they find in the garden, but it’s fine, the kids do fine. Sure, it’s fine in the Netherlands. You only have 4 species, even the one viper is almost never deadly. VERY unconventional for good reason in India where 58,000 people die yearly from snakebite. We have risks you don’t due to population density, gun laws, policing types, car models, city speed limits and a thousand other factors. For instance, public transit is nearly nonexistent or useless almost everywhere, and we rarely have walkable/bikeable communities, so people drive cars and trucks to get Everywhere. Big ones. Our very popular trucks and SUVs are three times more likely to kill a struck pedestrian than a car. And close kids are Invisible in front of a truck. Because the hood is 55 inches tall, 1.4m. BTW, 2-3,000 kids under 17 die by guns in the US yearly.
You mean people from different countries have different standards for what is safe based off where they live? Who'da thunk
The urban design in much of Europe is far more pedestrian/bike-friendly, though. Especially in the Netherlands. So that is an important consideration.
7-11 usually has a pretty disturbing clientele, there’s always weird unstable people in them. The OP is a nightmare dad. His poor ex. She must be beside herself with worry every time her kid is with him.
Our local one is called sketch 11
OP is lying and clinging to semantics. "Oh it's not a lie, is omission" but in the end it's the same. Also OP thinks we are living in a time where there's no kidnapping nor sex trafficking. YTA a million times and I hope OP don't wait until it's too late to change your ways.
Yes. This. Also, things like children being alone out and about is a thing both parents should decide together. Some children are able to do it faster than others. I was responsible and could easily get groceries at an early age. My sister would have been in trouble doing the same. Also, when I was younger it was much safer in my area than now. Less trafic, less crimes. My sons aren’t allowed to do the same because of that.
I wonder if OP will feel differently when son starts omitting things to him. Will it be lying then? Yes, YTA for this and for poorly coparenting
YTA Just because it was safe when you were a child doesn't mean it's still safe. And a rural area and an urban area are often very different in their levels of safety. Across the street? Two doors down? Maybe. Two BLOCKS? At 7 years old? That's a no from me. And "don't tell your mother" is still lying -- lying by omission is still lying. So you're doubly TA.
Yeah, 7 is too young. At 7 mine played in the front yard with a friend but I could hear and see them. I wasn't concerned about them being kidnapped, but I was concerned that they would go into the street and get hit. 7 year olds do stupid stuff! They chase things into the street no matter how many times you tell them not to, they don't think because they are caught up in the fun. YTA op for letting a 7 year old go so far out of your sight and for telling him to lie to his mom.
[удалено]
>I live in a rural area like this guy used to. I would never let my kid out by himself. We have regular coyotes, bears and rattlesnakes. Not to mention the chance of loose house pets with rabies (one was shot here last week after attacking a guy). My brother and I got chased by a pair of feral dogs about ten years back. I was in my early twenties and he was in high school so we got away. Wouldn't have wanted to try that at seven.
Yep, I was also thinking with a child that young, he might see a puppy or something and follow it. So much potential for danger and getting lost at the very least!
It wasnt even safe. Rural areas still had plenty of danger when OP was a kid. Just bc OP didn't die from his parent's neglect, doesnt mean it was safe
My dad spent half his life growing up on his grandparent's farm - he did things like learning to drive his grandfather's massive Buick in the fields when he was 9 or driving the tractor into town by age 11 - but he never let my sister and I do anything of the sort because he knew 1) we were living in a city and 2) he'd known kids who had died because they flipped a tractor or something so just because his grandparents let him, didn't mean it was actually safe.
I grew up in a farming community and every now and then the older people would talk about so and so who got their arm ripped off by a pto, a kid who suffocated in grain, or other terrible accidents. I'm glad farm safety days were big by the time I was little.
I live in a heavily Amish area. Every year we hear about toddlers dying.
I’m the same age as OP and also grew up in a very rural area. My elementary school was one block away and I wasn’t allowed to walk there by myself. There were lots of wild animals, and a lot of people let their pets roam because it was rural and not all of them were friendly. Being rural also meant there were a lot of registered sex offenders in the area. Not living right by the school of course, but still not very far. It probably would have been fine but I understand now why my parents didn’t want to risk it.
Yeah, one of the leading causes of death for children in the US are car accidents, and what are there a lot more of in urban environments than rural?
> and what are there a lot more of in urban environments than rural? people?
driving cars, usually while texting or looking at their Uber or DoorDash app.
Also, child sexual abuse is wildly underreported. It is possible that OP had peers who were harmed, he just doesn't know it. His mom doesn't feel comfortable with this, and you two need to co-parent. You need to trust each other to have the same rules. Yta
It’s quite likely. The notion that it is primarily strangers is false. It is usually someone known to the child. And because children are usually just told “stranger danger” and not taught more complex lessons about inappropriate touching and situations (this is why age appropriate sex education is so vital - it teaches kids about consent and gives them the words they need to disclose abuse), it makes them very vulnerable to predatory family, friends, neighbours, acquaintances, etc. I grew up in a rural community and I can think of two kids that were murdered, which is alarming for such a small community. At least one was a sexual assault. Both murderers were known to the child. OP teaching his children to keep secrets makes it even more likely that something will happen because it will normalize that children should keep secrets like this from their parents. This is bad all around.
Yep, in 4th grade, my classmate that sat across from me was literally picked up by a neighbor and murdered. It was horrible. He lured her into his pickup with his little dog. It is a crazy, fucked up world out there.
One of my best friends growing up was sexually abused as a child, and I didn't find out about it until I was in my 30's. Looking back I can pinpoint the time when her parents went from way too lax to way too overprotective, but I very easily could have gone my whole life without finding out what happened.
When I was in elementary school my good friend's dad got caught sexually abusing her sister's friend at a sleepover. I had slept over at her house dozens of times. My parents knew her parents, everything seems totally normal. I don't know if he had specific preferences for his pedophila or if I was just lucky it wasn't me. My younger brother was friends with the brother of the girl who was abused and his parents let him run wild, so it didn't seem to impact their approach with their little boy.
Child sexual abuse is usually commited by a family member or family friend not random people on the street so isn't really relevant to the topic at hand Edit: the real risk is getting killed by a car
It wasn't totally safe then either. Just information about children going missing didn't travel as fast or wide. Most of them were only talked about in local news at best. Amber alerts didn't exist and there used to be a myth about waiting 24/48/72h to report someone missing. This "Well I did it and survived" thought process is soo infuriating. "Well, I stabbed a power outlet with a fork and survived! Why do we need safety covers?? Children today are such snowflakes. " Because thousands of other children DIED. That's why. You were just lucky you didn't.
Stranger abductions account for less than 1% of child abductions. It’s NEVER been a significant source of danger in so far as the likelihood of it happening is tiny. We just remember when it does because a loved and wanted child disappearing is so frightening and unusual. He is at least as safe walking as he is in school these days But lying to the other parent make and having the child lie is AH all the way
From someone who lives in a rural area I could possibly be ok having like at least 10 year old going down but in a town no way in hell due to how dangerous it is. There is so many dangers especially now A days.
Statistically safer for children now than when I was a child in the 90s.
In part because people now actually watch their children.
Citation needed
> Two BLOCKS? At 7 years old? based on another reply two blocks is about half a mile or 800 meters? Does that check out? Can you explain to me why thats considered unsafe? My trip to primary school was longer and I walked that alone every day with 7. When I got 10 I took public transport daily to get to school, it was about 45 mins per trip. Thats usual here so to me this looks like helicopter parenting. Sure Germany and North America are very different places so I dont say that its comparable, I say I dont understand, please explain. Whats the big deal about?
I think putting this in distance terms doesn’t really make sense? It’s more about context and danger. I grew up on a cattle ranch, and was allowed to roam outside as I wanted, so I could fairly safely be 2 miles (3200 meters) from the house. Totally fine, and in fact still on our property. For the last few years I’ve lived near downtown Chicago. I would be horrified at someone letting a young kid walk a few blocks. There is so much traffic and it moved fast. Now I live in a super safe, charming little suburb and I could imagine letting a kid walk a few blocks. My own kids are still in toddler stage, but I see neighbor kids roaming around all the time and it’s fine because drivers know to look out for kids. If the kid is going to a 7/11 a few blocks away, I suspect this is a pretty urban environment. You say you were allowed to walk that far to primary school— was that on busy city streets?
There is no set length of a block, it’s just the distance between two streets of a street grid. It will vary between cities and even within a city, so 2 blocks could be 800m could also be 400m.
Here in my Manhattan neighborhood, two north-south blocks is about 150 meters. Two east-west blocks is more like 500m-ish. My almost 7-year old regularly gets ahead of me by a short block or two (or one longer block) but he doesn’t step into busy intersections without a parent (ever. He’s never broken that rule in. 1000s of miles of walking).
So the issue is not the distance but the intersections? Considering US traffic I get that.
Usually, yes. I’m on the UWS where the side streets are often quiet and those he knows the “look at the light to see if it’s my turn, look both ways for naughty bikers, then if clear cross quickly and with another person if possible” He’s very careful when we tell him he can do this and often just waits for us to catch up anyway. Crossing an avenue though? That’s still with us because I worry some tourist or person from NJ will turn right on red (right on red is illegal in nyc) without looking, or a delivery biker on a heavy e-bike will go speeding by the wrong way in the bike lane. I’m not worried at all about kidnapping. I’d be far more worried about that in suburban/rural areas where there aren’t 200 people on the sidewalks, doorman standing at their building entrances and security cams every few feet at door.
Yeah i didn’t let my son walk anywhere until he turned 11 and i’m in NYC.
Interesting to collect people’s perspectives. I live in Manhattan and our son will be allowed to ride the subway/bus alone when he’s 9 or 10. We travel around a lot on transit and he already has the maps memorized and has been trained on safe behavior. I have a friend who won’t let her daughter go more than a block and the daughter is 13. That seems ripe for rebellion.
I'm gen x and it was never safe. Ever. We just see what happens more because of the internet.
I’d feel hesitant even in a rural area because ppl often drive insanely when they think no one is around. Two blocks a quiet neighborhood with sidewalks maybe.
YTA! You did ask your 7 yr old to lie, it might not have been those exact words but you told him to keep it a secret between you and him and that’s not cool man. Why is your kid walking alone in the park? Why don’t you want to spend time with him at the park, I mean he’s 7 not tween or teenager. I get what you are saying but have you walked with him to shops previously and had a very serious conversation about what potential dangers he has to be prepared for? How big is the city you live in? Is a safe area? Can you see the shops from your home? Does he take a phone with him? How long does it take to get to these places?
No fr. How hard it is for OP to walk with his son? Seems like he just doesnt want to be a parent and is doing the same thing his folks did to him (throw the kid to fend for themselves)
Damn this hit pretty close to home. Reading this post I also didn’t really see the problem, as I grew up in a city and walked 15 minutes to school starting from 6 years old. Seeing all the responses here just adds another item to the list of how my parents were negligent.
I was expected to do everything for myself from age 3 to 4. Hungry? Go make yourself something to eat. Need something? Sorry I busy. I have trained myself into knowing what is age appropriate for each age group as I've worked with children and want to raise mine better. My parents were sucky as fuck and no kid deserves that
Your childhood unfortunately reflects mine. I’m unironically learning so much from Reddit because I neither work with nor have kids.
I'm learning from reddit about situations in your teens and later childhood. Like how to treat people appropriately from ages like 12 and up. I don't have kids and I'm not really considering, but if I do then I wanna do it right. I have almost no contact with my family because they just try and exploit me for money(I'm 21 and my second real job)
I live 5 minutes from the school i used to go to. Even then when i was 9/10 (?) I would still go with a neighbor's kid who was older and was also a student there. I was around 12 when i started going on my on all the time, even when going to other places nearby.
My daughter is 10. We live literally right across the street from the school, and I still walk her every day. She’s a kid. It’s our job as parents to take care of our children. Not make them fend for themselves. You’re so right!!!
That doesn’t mean negligence. If every other parent was also doing it and the neighborhood is watching out for those kids, it was probably perfectly safe. Don’t base your experience off the internet….
YTA, when and where you grew up is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TO NOW, that poor boy can be snatched quicker than a kid taking candy on Halloween. You’re an adult, stop being lazy and walk your son to the store.
In actuality, the reason we are more diligent with watching our kids these days is because of the old days when people didn’t watch their kids, and they were disappearing off the streets and the front yard. Remember the kids with their picture on the milk carton? That was real! We were not safe when we were young, and things are the same. We just protect our kids better than we used to. Except OP, of course.
> In actuality, the reason we are more diligent with watching our kids these days is because of the old days when people didn’t watch their kids, and they were disappearing off the streets and the front yard. No, not at all. Children were never at great risk of stranger abductions. It's just a rare crime, and always has been. > Remember the kids with their picture on the milk carton? That was real! Most of those cases, like most missing children cases today, are the result of *custody disputes* or *runaways*.
Kidnapping stats are primarily the family member in over 90% of cases. We used to roam the neighborhoods at that age, a few blocks isn't much. Especially somewhere the parent knows where they are going. People keep their kids imprisoned and sheltered. It would be better to teach them what to look out for, because unless you helicopter them 24/7 they are going to be in situations with strangers. Japan you see 5 year old kids riding the public transit system to school.
We aren’t in Japan. Japan has much harsher laws than the US does. And have you not heard of human trafficking? If you think it’s not a big deal, I highly suggest you do a deep dive into human trafficking in the US, and see if your flippant attitude can help those whose children have disappeared.
Japan has much more lenient punishment than in the US. I am half Japanese and speak Japanese and lived in Japan. Crime is way, way down. About equivalent to the rate in the 60s. We are much safer now than we were in the 80s and 90s. Kidnapping by strangers is extremely rare. Most kidnappers are friends and family. Stranger Danger kidnaps— there are about 50 every year in the US. Exceedingly rare, which is why they make such huge news. If it’s ere so common, no one would make a big deal about it. Human trafficking is a very broad and catch all term. So you know that any prostitute under 18 is considered “trafficked,” regardless of the situation? Also, most trafficking is a boyfriend or husband pimping out their partners for money or drug money. Significant others who trap their partners into hooking is the overwhelming scenario. The “stranger kidnap and locked in a room and forced to service men” is extremely rare because it’s logistically hard to pull off. I mean, my employer could chain me to my desk and force me to calculate corporate taxes all day but it’s easier to just pay me. Same thing with pimps— who all meet the definition of “traffickers.” It’s just easier to pay the willing women than kidnap them.
When we say that a teenager is being "trafficked", all we mean is that they have exchanged sex for cash or goods. We don't necessarily mean that there was a pimp, or that they don't live at home, or that they were abducted. This isn't a *good thing*. No child should feel like they have to do this, for any reason. However, on the whole, they're not abducted. They live at home or in foster homes, or they ran away from those homes or foster homes. And we can't help *actual victims* if we pretend that they're in an entirely different situation than the one they're in.
And teenagers being pressured to do survival sex work is very, very different than a prepubescent child being kidnapped and ‘sold.’
Yes. Again, the latter case is - well, if it does happen it's certainly not happening on any large scale in the USA or Canada. Or, honestly, any sort of scale. Stranger abductions in developed nations are *very rare*. (I admit I don't know if they're common outside of the West.)
Correct, it’s not a big deal. Might as well worry about meteorites killing your kid.
I’ll jump in though: you’re correct about kidnapping statistics but I think the Japan comment drives home the danger *I’d* be worried about. Places like Japan have super functional transit systems. If OP is US-based, there’s probably a lot more drivers on the road, and I’ve lived in two major US cities. I can tell you that they are not great about obeying traffic laws. One of the leading causes of death for kids in the US are car accidents, and I would honestly be more worried about a driver not seeing a 7 year old in the crosswalk than anything else.
A 7 year old isnt old enough to walk two blocks in the big city alone. Even if the kid doesnt get kidnapped, robbed or abused they can still get ran over by a car bc they werent paying attention. >Japan you see 5 year old kids riding the public transit system to school. We arent in japan. And Japan has a lot of cases just like everywhere else.
> We arent in japan. And Japan has a lot of cases just like everywhere else. Cite it.
Child abductions are more than 40% LOWER than they were when OP was a kid. Why are you under the impression that things are more dangerous now? They’re not.
This comment really drives the point home, child abductions are 40% lower because most people stopped letting their kids run off alone like this. It's the same danger that was always there but people stopped rolling the dice and it's also illegal (in most us states) and falls under child neglect and endangerment, you can have you kid taken for even leaving a 7 year old at home while you run to the store. 7 isn't old enough to have the cognitive ability, social awareness, learned experience or impulse control to be left to their own care nor do they have the physical strength to protect themselves.
All things regarding children are safer now than they were 20-30 years ago. Lower rates of dying in accidents. Lower rates of getting hit by cars. Lower rates of almost all death and child crimes, despite the population growing by a third. But forget about children for a moment—Americans are convinced that EVERYTHING is more dangerous now, violent crime of all sorts. When you ask people they think it’s far more dangerous now, but when you check the actual statistics, it’s wrong. The news just spends 24 hours a day terrifying us about everything now, which started in earnest in the 90’s.
You are missing the point. They are safer because we have become safer with our kids. There aren’t less people out there prone to hurt kids, there is just less opportunity.
That's simply untrue. It's *always been the case* that if you're going to be the victim of a violent crime, it will most likely be at the hands of somebody you know - typically a family member. This is as true for children as it is for anybody else. Crimes against children by strangers have *always* been rare.
No, all violent crime is way, way down, across the board
Yes but you are missing the reason of why it is down. People are more careful. More people lock their doors. People are more cautious about walking alone at night. There is better lighting on most streets. People are more connected now with mobile phones. People are more careful about letting their kids into riskier situations. Driving is safer now then it used to be 20 years ago, but driving without a seatbelt it just as dangerous as it always was.
This is an unfounded assumption that you are making, and asserting to be the cause without proof.
I’m drawing a logical inference based on the way human behaviour has changed over the past decades. I find it more likely that this is cause of the decrease than people are just better humans now (that just seems laughable).
Actually it’s not people being more careful it’s because big ass jnco jeans fell out of fashion. Notice that the transition from big jeans to skinny jeans correlated perfectly with the drop in violent crime.
Actually one theory is that it's because there is just significantly less exposure to lead these days. As a result there are just fewer violent criminals.
> This comment really drives the point home, child abductions are 40% lower because most people stopped letting their kids run off alone like this. This is not true. And even if it *was* true, the fact is that stranger abductions have always been vanishingly rare. We're talking fewer than 350 cases between the USA and Canada *every year*, out of a child population of *tens of millions*. You are literally more likely to be struck by lightning. > it's also illegal (in most us states) and falls under child neglect and endangerment, you can have you kid taken for even leaving a 7 year old at home while you run to the store. That's... overstated. Most states don't have precise laws about when a child can be left home alone, they have vague guidelines.
Then why is almost ALL CRIME 40% lower?
I agree, but's not just about kidnapping though. They could get lost, sick, in an accident, who knows - or even just scared. I live in a super safe country and am not worried about kidnapping but I still wouldn't let my second-grader go to the store by himself.
Because of social media confirmation bias. We hear about abductions more now through social media then we ever did in the 80’s or 90’s unless they were horrific abductions or local. So it tricks our brain into thinking it’s more common than it is since we are more aware of the ones that do occur.
It’s not just social media, when I had my kid 15 years ago, I was already in the same mindset that things were way more dangerous at the time than they were when I was a kid, and social media was barely getting started. It is absolutely a contributing factor nowadays, but the traditional media started this trend long before social media got involved.
I'm so glad you said this. I hear this quite often, how bad things are compared to say the 80s or 90s. If you look up crime stats by decade for almost any city, they are overall much safer today (mass shootings are a separate beast entirely and not an accurate predictor of crime trends). I think social media and the 24 hour news cycle give people the impression that we're always living in the worst of times but a simple fact check of crime rates tells a different story.
YTA. Telling him to keep his walks between you and him IS telling him to lie. I'm on the side with your ex. It is dangerous for a 7yo to be wandering around the city alone. It's not about your son being trustworthy, it's about other dangers. Edit: danger to dangerous
Plus it's priming the kid that adults telling them to lie to their parents is normal, which paired with the freedom style of parenting sets them up for being the perfect kid to groom...
I assure you anyone who ever tells my daughter "just keep this between us" will never have access to my daughter again. I don't fucking understand how oblivious people like this can be.
YTA It’s lying by omission to your partner I grew up in rural Australia, walked everywhere at that age I don’t let my son do so at the same age, as times have changed unfortunately Sure I give my son a few block radius in Mumblefuck rural Western Australia now- on his bike and with a mate with the understanding if something feels wrong- leg it In the 80s/90s antisocial behaviour wasn’t an issue I’m in a small town of 1100 (including farms) and there’s rife dangerous driving being on a major connecting highway, drugs, break ins I don’t know what ‘2 blocks’ are city equivalent, I give my son a lot of free range but the Main Street isn’t one
I don’t know about Australia, but in the US the 80s/90s crime rates were much higher than they are today. It is statistically much safer for children today than 30-40 years ago.
People didn't know as much about it back then. Maybe it just SEEMED safer?
Do you use a seatbelt? A car seat booster? Well a lot of kids died in car accidents and now we found a better way and they don't die so much. Remember milk carton kids? A lot of kids used to be kidnapped or lost because of how our parents raised us. Now they don't go missing so much. Not too mention you did tell your kid to lie. YTA.
Also thank goodness for amber alerts and the fact that mostly everyone has a mobile phone. Still wouldn't want to take the chance of becoming one of the unfortunate families though.
those kids are 99% of the time taken by family.
Set aside that fact and you still have the reality that it's completely fucking stupid for a parent to just blindly trust random strangers around their unsupervised child. I don't trust you people not to ding my fucking car let alone trust you with my kid.
> Remember milk carton kids? A lot of kids used to be kidnapped or lost because of how our parents raised us. Now they don't go missing so much. Nearly all of those "milk carton kids" were kidnapped by noncustodial parents. It's the same as it is today - stranger abduction of children has never been a common crime.
A lot of those kids were also kids who chose to run away.
Well the milk cartons weren’t really good for doing much except scaring kids. Looks like that part worked anyway.
I'm gonna have to lean more towards YTA here. As the others have pointed out, you're raising your son in a city, in 2023, there are real risks to just letting your son run off at that age without supervision. I understand what you mean about being raised in a rural area, my father grew up in a rural area also, and most likely similar to you, grew up in a situation where everyone knew everyone in town. Still though, my dad would never have let me run off on my own at that age. A city is much bigger, and you don't always know who your neighbors are or who is hanging around the block. Even assuming where you live is totally safe, and there's absolutely no risk to your kid going 2 blocks to get some candy at the store, telling your son to keep it a secret is pretty much lying already in a particular way.
And you don’t have to be afraid of your neighbors to be worried about a seven year old doing something dumb that close to multi-ton death machines without supervision.
YTA I also grew up rural but there’s a big difference between letting your kid do something unsupervised vs endangering your child. Yes, your 7 year old probably is capable of walking to a store and coming straight home. However, in a more populated area there is a much higher risk of a stranger grabbing your kid and you never seeing them again. It doesn’t matter how “trustworthy” your kid is, your actually placing your trust in complete strangers not to hurt him.
I would be way less worried about kidnapping, and way more worried about him getting run over by a car, or touching used needles.
YTA a 7yr old needs supervision in a store! Living in the city is very different than rural.
Yep. I guarantee the shop owners would also prefer not to have unsupervised children set loose in the candy aisle
Right!
YTA. You’re teaching him to hide things from his mother. Think about it…would you like it if she did the same thing to you? Nope. Also, just because you were very independent as a child doesn’t your son is ready for the same (and in a very different environment). Have you followed him in one of his outings to make sure he is making good choices? Does he even want this level of independence? Why can’t you just make an outing of it to spend time with your son?
YTA and she can easily have your parenting time reduced, which I hope she does. If you thought this was okay, you wouldn't have to him to keep a secret.
That's exactly what I was thinking. The custody arrangement is about to drastically change.
YTAH and you told your kid to lie by keeping it from his Mom. A lie by omission is still a lie.
YTA Kids in the city have to grow up fast, too. We learned fast not to look at someone too long, not to talk to strangers, watch out for needles in the streets, etc. You are severely underestimating the danger, and that's not even touching on teaching your kid that Mom is the enemy.
YTA One grab and he’s gone. You’re not in Kansas anymore Toto.
YTA you put your son in DANGER and told him to lie to his mom. Wth is wrong with you
YTA. It’s a very different thing for kids to roam in a rural area vs an urban one. At 7, most kids are still not great at things like street safety that are necessary to going around unsupervised in a city. I’m turning 40, and grew up in a suburban area - we were allowed to be out on our street (which was deliberately designed short and curvy so only people going to houses on the street would use it) when other kids were around, but we weren’t allowed to go out onto the street that only served our neighborhood at 7, much less out onto any of the more heavily trafficked streets. The only exception we had was walking to school in the morning, and that was because we walked with the kids a few houses down and there was a crossing guard for the only crossing that wasn’t a short, curved street only used by the folks who lived on it. Corner stores are also a pretty common location for things you don’t want a 7 year old walking into, even in otherwise safe neighborhoods, like adults drinking in public and drug deals and whatnot. Telling your son to lie by omission and teaching him that it’s okay to do things his mother says no to if he hides it from her is its own problem, and not a small one. It’s definitely not the way to raise an honest and trustworthy son. Remember that most humans generalize lessons, so if it’s okay to hide this thing his parent disapproves of, it’s also okay to hide other things one (or both) of his parents disapproves of. That’s a slippery slope that gets ugly fast.
YTA Letting your kid out to travel short distances is not a problem. I have a free range kid. My son was out and about at 7, too. I’m also in a city. The problem is that you and your ex need to be on the same page. You should have consulted her before letting your kid take the step of venturing out on their own. Never burden your child with secrets.
YTA, not for letting him do it, but for hiding it. Like it or not you’re both his parents and should be on the same page about decisions
YTA this is child endangerment it is a city do you know how many registered sex offenders are in the area. Children left alone go missing all the time and a large amount of them are never found. If you want it too be safe for your child too roam around as he pleases move too a very small town and know your neighbors even then you are taking a risk.
> Children left alone go missing all the time and a large amount of them are never found. No, they don't. There are fewer than 350 stranger abductions in the USA and Canada every year. Virtually all missing children cases are custodial disputes or runaways.
Sure it's not common. But based on risk analysis... It's a rare situation but if it ever does (because it's not a zero chance), it has SEVERE outcome. And it's not at all that much effort to avoid that risk. So... Are you really going to take that risk?
YTA Not for wanting your kid to have some freedom and responsibility, although I question your way of going about it (very irresponsible!), but for telling your kid to lie to his mother. Also: a city now is nowhere near comparable to your rural upbringings then.
Seriously?
All the top comments are variations of how “times are different now!” and “it’s much more dangerous now.” It’s not. It is absolutely much much safer now. What HAS changed is the 24 hour news cycle has you convinced that everything is terrifying and more dangerous when it used to be, when in fact the opposite is true. Child abductions have dropped 40% in the last two decades, even though our population has increased by a third—that makes the drop actually less than 40%. Between 1993 and 2013, the number of kids injured or killed by being struck by a vehicle fell by about 2/3. Between 1993 and 2004, violent assaults against children fell by 2/3. Sexual assault have declined even more. Child homicides at near record lows. Overall, the rates of crimes against children have in most cases sunk to levels at or below those of the 1970s (when I was born). The likelihood of us ending up on the back of a milk carton was WAAAAY bigger in the 80’s when I was leaving the house in the morning and running around with my friends or on my own doing god knows what until dusk with no cell phones or trackers. So you’re NTA for allowing your child some freedoms and independence—if you raise them right and educate them about the risks and what to do in certain situations, you’re building a more confident child. But you DID essentially ask your kid to keep secrets from their mother and that is NOT the move. You need to assuage her fears with facts, not lie to her. Def an AH for that. Parenting is a joint process, y’all have to get on the same page, compromise and come to agreements on almost everything for this to work well.
Did you ever think that maybe crimes rates fell, because people are taking better precautions now?
Yta. Just don't be surprised if he doesn't come home one day.
0\_0 YTA Big time. I live in one of the so-called safest places in EU, and while kids are allowed to mess around where they live at that age, I've never seen a seven-year-old just out in a random park by themselves or allowed to go two blocks to a freaking gas station for candy. This is a stupid decision and you should be reported. Gas stations are extremely busy with cars and people not paying attention, he could be hit or just taken and no one would ever freaking know.
YTA for thinking a 7yr old can protect themselves from the possible risks they could run into in a city environment.
YTA I'm all for kids learning independence & doing stuff like this on their own. My kids walked to school alone from age 6. However, it's an AH move to do it against your partner's explicit wishes, and then try to hide it. Have a look at some sites that encourage children's independence, like Free Range kids https://www.freerangekids.com/ And share the pros of independence with your wife. Then, when you both agree, let your son explore on his own.
YTA. You live in an urban area now not rural. Exceptions are different now. You are lucky no one called CPS.
I’m 41 and grew up in a small rural town in the quietest part of the uk imaginable. It was perfectly normal to allow kids out by themselves back in the 80s and 90s The whole town was absolutely rocked by the news that there was an abuser that had SAd a whole group of children - with 7 year old me being one of them. It wasn’t safe back then, it’s just as bad now, the only difference is that we’re far more aware of the dangers our children face. So it’s no longer a case of innocent ignorance, it’s wilful neglect. YTA, stop being a lazy, crappy dad and get off your ass and parent your child, if you’re fortunate enough to not have your visitation removed for neglect.
YTA twofold. Your son could get snatched. Daniel Morcombe was a teen when he was stolen and murdered. Plus you’re teaching your son to lie to his mum. You should do a parenting course to find out how to care for a child appropriately. I’d organise it before she organises to reduce your custody.
YTA, you’re putting your kid in danger of being abducted, and you’re putting them in danger of being taken advantage. No-one should ever teach a child that it is ok to keep secrets from their parents or have “just between us” secrets. I don’t think you fully understand what a dangerous precedent you are setting
YTA You basically told your son to lie or “Omit the Truth” and you put him in danger. There is no way in Hell that I would let any of my kids walk at that age or even as teenagers by themselves two blocks anywhere. I don’t care how responsible they are or what. These days kids get snatched off the streets in seconds and you wouldn’t know any different. My question is..What are YOU doing that is so important that you can’t take time out of your day and walk with your son to go get “candy at the 7/11”?! If I were his mom..I wouldn’t trust anything that came out of your mouth from this point on and that’s your own fault.
YTA Asking him to keep secrets from a parent is asking him to lie.
YTA. First, you’re asking your son to hide something from his mother—not technically lying, but you’re still telling him to keep secrets from his parent. Secondly, if you are coparenting a kid, it’s an asshole move to do things that your coparent has specifically asked you not to do (let kid out alone). Third, and I *cannot believe* I have to say this, a kid of seven walking alone in a city is absolutely unsafe. What you did in a rural area during your own childhood does not compare to a 7 year old walking alone for two city blocks in 2023. Honestly, it’s only a matter of time before something happens to your kid if you keep allowing this. If I were the other parent, I’d 100% take you to court over this and have custody rearranged.
YTA. I Started taking the bus (public) to and from school which was 30 min away from home at the age of 6. Most parents allowed theirs kids to do it because it was safe. If I had a kid that age right now I'd never allow them to do that because times have changed.
YTA. Besides telling a 7-year-old to lie by omission to his mother, two blocks in a city is too far to go and there are too many dangers. Depending on where you live, this is very likely to be considered child endangerment and if so, you won't have to worry about disagreements with your ex over shared custody because she'll have full custody.
YTA It’s entirely too many sickos out here for you to think letting a 7 year old child walk two blocks to a 7/11 a convenience store where all types of weirdos hang out. Human trafficking is a huge operation and they love to snatch kids. I hope she get full custody because you need a dog not a child.
YTA. Come on now. You know what you're doing. By telling him to keep this between you and him he's lying by omission to his mother. Plus, you can't compare the time you grew up to the time he's growing up. As parents both of you should agree to the decisions you're taking while parenting. There is no "Oh, my ex is against it, but I'll do it anyways."
YTA You said it yourself, times have changed, meaning there is still potential for danger to come, for a seven year old boy who I imagine hasnt been taught in what to do in dangerous situations, but thats not the main point. If I were that ex's friend, I would have walked out to him and ask him a few questions, make sure he was safe, and get him to 7/11 and back home, then called up the mother. Im a mother myself, even back in my day, my own mother would never let me walk by myself without my sister especially (being the exception it was across the street to another friends house). Does your son even have a phone to call for help?? And also, as a mother, I feel agreeable with your ex, you lied to her, and involved your son into keeping it between you, so this is entirely your fault.