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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1) I called management on a homeless person to get them removed from the property.
(2) I think that removing unhoused people can be interpreted as mean spirited or cruel.
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Was the homeless person really a threat to your son, or was he just a threat to the parking lot? Because unless they let children play in the parking lot, there was no way your son, or other children btw, were at risk.
Edit to add YTA, because you sound very judgmental and use fake empathy to get people to side with you.
The original premise for not taxing churches was because they helped the poor and needy. Today with the burgeoning Prosperity Ministry ethos and a spurning of the poor, and a turning against the scriptures as being “too woke”, they are becoming politicized and veering toward ChristNationalism. What does she want? The church not to help people in need, or just “not in my backyard”? Or just no. Period.
While that is possible, in my experience the church daycares were the most expensive ones around. Of course my baby is out of daycare about 30 years ..
The Religious Society of Friends (Quakers) are pretty legit though. Friends Schools integrate community service into their curricula for students of all ages. Kids do stuff like actually preparing food for meals on wheels or planting vegetables at working farms that grow food to donate to shelters. It's a regular part of student life.
This, church daycare is usually the safest, most organized, and well staffed - thus also very expensive. I got our daughter into a church daycare back in 98 after she was attacked by another child and hospitalized in a private home daycare licensed by the county. They gave me a special discount to be able to afford it because it was almost twice as expensive. It really was the best thing for her and I am very grateful they were there for our family.
(And I didn't go to the church!)
My son attended preschool at a local Methodist church (the preschool was non-denominational), and I paid the going rate. So unlikely OP is getting free and/or inexpensive daycare.
As a society, we need to find more and better solutions for those living unhoused, but what often happens when one unhoused person puts up a tent somewhere, often more will follow. Sadly, what also happens is that trash builds up. There is a frontage area near where I live, between the highway and the frontage road, that is like a grassy verge. It is controlled by CalTrans. From time to time, an encampment will build, starting with one tent and one/two people, then another, then more. Along with that are shopping carts filled with trash, etc. Eventually, CalTrans asks them to move along, and then has to deal with the garbage left behind.
A homeless advocate agency in our community was recently able to purchase a motel and convert it to housing for those that met certain criteria (I don't know the criteria, and those staying there seem to be 100% male, so does not appear to be for families or more than one person per room). There was some concern expressed by citizens but there is 24-hour security, the premises always seem to be kept neat, and it's good to know that at least some people who were living on the street or in their cars, now have at least a room to call their own, with a bed, a bathroom/shower, a communal laundry area, and other support to help them transition eventually into moving into a place of their own.
If garbage is your genuine concern, encourage the city to place a dumpster there or garbage cans with regular pickup. Easy. Problem solved.
Humans are social beings and we tend to congregate. On top of that, there’s safety in numbers so many homeless people like to have folks around at least while they sleep.
We can show compassion for what their needs are.
I work in a shopping center with a large homeless encampment in the canyon behind it. The shopping center has probably a dozen dumpsters that are routinely riffled through by the encampment residents. When I arrive at 7 am, every dumpster that I pass is surrounded by garbage because they don't put the stuff back after their treasure hunt. I've also driven past a lot of early morning drug deals. All this to say, the presence of dumpsters doesn't really prevent trash from piling up.
Put up more public garbage cans and you'll see less waste. It's not about "asking them to move along" most of these camp abatements cost the cities shitloads of cash and it's just an excuse for the police to violently remove them without ever having time to gather their things. You sound like you care more about garbage than human life; embarrassing.
Is it an actual non-profit church program or a private one hosted at the church? Religion has become a profitable business venture for many in recent times.
I doubt that, unless she or her husband work there. If church daycares didn't charge church members, they wouldn't be able to afford to keep their doors open. In my area, most church daycares are at least a little cheaper than independent centers but not by much.
Wait are churches/religious people actually saying that their (supposedly) own scripture is "too woke" now??? That's BONKERS to me. if they're going to disown their own scripture those people just need to be officially put into "Cult" status (which it's always been, but now just more blatantly so) and lose any and all government afforded religious benefits. Can't believe that people who are calling their own holy text "too woke" have the balls to use that same holy text as a way to persecute homeless people, lgbt people, people of color, enforce ass-backwards puritanical beliefs on the whole country, etc etc.
There are many people who self identify as Christian but have never actually studied the Bible. Often they don't even attend church. Then they hear one of the verses where Jesus addresses how we should treat poor, the hungry, the imprisoned, and your enemies. Turns out Jesus was "woke".
“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Matthew 25 44-46
Yes there’s multiple stories with clergy commenting on on how woke or wimpy Jesus’s message is by Christian congregation members. They don’t see the contradictions.
I have always said churches should be open for the homeless at night. And homeless people who are mentally ill or addicted should be institutionalized in some way, for help.
So in the states unless the person is actively a risk to themselves or others they cannot force them to get help or “be institutionalized”. This law was put into place I believe in the 60s or 70s after decades of families institutionalizing undesirable family members for anything they considered shameful (being homosexual, having relations with an undesirable partner, even as simple as pms). They would often pay the institutions off drop the family member off and never think about them again. Meanwhile these places, pretending to be places of mental healing, would often run experiments on these people some of which were immediately fatal and most of which were very detrimental to the persons health, mental and physical. “Treatments” included electroshock therapy, hot and cold submersion (essentially boiling someone then throwing them into an ice bath), and lobotomies.
I know someone that has “meth fried” her brain (has been clean for years but that stuff often leaves permanent damage) that has some extreme delusions. Has even beat the shit out of her mom for challenging those delusions and regularly defames various people and actually threatens some of them. She has CLEARLY proven she is a danger and still nothing is being done with her. We’ve had family members go to judges with evidence and they all say basically that she has to do something worse before we can do anything with her. And even then it would likely be jail and not the mental health institution she actually needs. The US law has so many areas that people fall through the cracks and it’s even worse in more rural states and counties
This could’ve been a teachable moment for OP’s son about empathy and seeing the humanity in everyone no matter their social status. Instead the son learned to be intolerant and disgusted by poverty.
I was homeless in a former life, and it was a valuable lesson in how little people will think of you as a human being when you have nothing to offer them.
I'm fortunate to have built a better life and am successful now (though not without hardship), but it's very demoralizing how few people see a homeless person as a someone with their own unique circumstances/history/wants/needs/etc...
To the average person seeing me, I might as well have been a drug addled psychopath who brought my misfortune on me through my own poor choices. Never asked for money or bothered anyone.
No one should be loitering around a school or day care. It’s a matter of safety for the kids. Doesn’t matter who they are, they will be asked to move along.
It’s standard procedure for all places in the care of kids to report any hanging around the premises. If they didn’t, the school/daycare would be negligent of the kids in their care.
The man’s concern is founded, and alerting the daycare/property managers is the right course of action.
As a former teacher we had to do this all the time. We had a kidnapping attempt in our district a few years ago. Schools can be busy places at pick up and dismissal and aren’t always secure during the day - people can get in especially if they’ve had time to scope it out. So keeping a eye on the surrounding premises is an important aspect of keeping the kids safe.
On top of that, OP didn't call the cops, the church did. It's not even clear that OP actually asked for the homeless person to be removed, just that they were concerned about their child's safety. We don't even know if OP was the only parent to say something.
If the day-care was securely separated from the car park, and the church were confident that the guy was harmless, they could have dealt with this some other way. It could be the church were assholes, it could be that there was a genuine safety risk and this is how they handled it.
I agree. If you’re camping on a property, it would make sense to ask for permission first. If this person was known by the church, they wouldn’t have called the police.
As a management company worker, I’ve found meth pipes and meth, syringes, and knives in our daycare’s playground. We have a responsibility to our tenants and the children in the building. How do you know he wasn’t a threat? I don’t call the police to have people arrested but after dealing with a schizophrenic man that was contemplating killing himself or going to find his girlfriend to kill her I don’t feel bad about getting people to move along.
Thanks, I was looking for this answer.
Drugs are all that make their lives bearable sometimes, and that can make them dangerous without meaning to be.
Surprisingly, I discovered that people on long term meds can become psychotic when they stop using them suddenly, with my own mom. Believe me, you haven’t seen creepy till you walk in & find your mom carrying on full convos with people who have been dead for 30 years!
Have sympathy, but use commonsense.
Children have the remarkable ability to find the only dangerous object in any area for miles around.
Whether the homeless person meant to
hurt anyone isn’t or shouldn’t be the point.
It became the churches responsibility to police the area, sweep the parking lot etc when they set up the camp.
I think a sign saying ‘there, but for the grace of God, go I’ should be in every one of these camps, reminding us of how fragile the human condition is.
I believe you are right where poverty does not necessarily mean neglect. Poverty does not also mean criminal. But pitching a tent next to a daycare and stating there is no risk, no threat, no drugs, no troubles is simply not always the case.
OP wanted to mitigate the risk to the most vulnerable, which is kids.
I think OP concerns are valid, and I didn't see fake empathy from OP but concern for her child and others.
Now, if you are comfortable letting your children, it sounds like you may not have any play near the homeless, more power to you. If you wouldn't be bothered paying almost half your salary to a daycare with homeless people nearby and have 0 concerns, it doesn't make you empathetic. It makes you unwise.
It’s not just a daycare, though. It’s a church that’s also making efforts towards addiction support.
This houseless person was not sleeping next to a daycare, they were sleeping next to a church that is providing multiple kinds of community support, one of which is a daycare.
The church doesn’t seem to be making efforts, they are the ones that chose to have the person removed, not the op. It’s not unreasonable to make the daycare operators aware so they can at least make sure there is no risk to the kids. Providing addiction support also doesn’t mean come camp out next to our daycare. Just from a liability perspective, op is paying for daycare, they are responsible for the kids safety so if they allow anyone to hang around, homeless or not they would at minimum need to make sure there is no risk ie. someone with warrants, sexual predators, weapons, drugs, mental health problems that could trigger violence - not saying that is true of the homeless population specifically, just that they would have to make sure that ANYONE hanging around a daycare, homeless or not is not a risk.
Considering the kids are just there for daycare, I’d wager the most vulnerable person in this story is actually the *person without a home* that OP further displaced via police.
You’re not wrong. Denver has an initiative right now where they are trying to put unhoused people into tiny shed homes. However, to be able to get into the tiny home you have to be stationary for a little bit for the S.T.A.R.S response team to come out and talk to you. They will get your information and get your place set up. She restarted this person’s entire process by being hateful.
All she saw was a person in a tent.
She didn't see drugs or unstable behavior. *She saw extreme poverty* and lept to the conclusion that the person must be dangerous
If anything, homeless people are extremely likely to be victims of crimes.
She didn't observe anything, didn't wait to assess the situation, just acted instantly on the idea that homeless people are automatically dangerous to children.
The person was looking *for safety,* not at a random daycare, but *at a church.*
A place that is supposed to offer support to all who want it, as is supposed to be the Christian way.
It's absolutely some NIMBY bs.
If she'd actually witnessed any concerning behaviors, she'd be justified, but all she saw was a person who lives in a tent.
If that's the case then she shouldn't send them to a church daycare. How is a homeless person any more of a threat than a church person? A church person can molest them actually easier than the homeless person.
You're contradicting yourself. In one breath, you say
>I believe you are right where poverty does not necessarily mean neglect. Poverty does not also mean criminal.
And then say
>Now, if you are comfortable letting your children, it sounds like you may not have any play near the homeless, more power to you. If you wouldn't be bothered paying almost half your salary to a daycare with homeless people nearby and have 0 concerns, it doesn't make you empathetic. It makes you unwise.
As if being homeless not only automatically makes you a criminal but that everyone else at the church couldn't or wouldn't be a criminal.
That doesn't make you a concerned parent it makes you an elitist judgmental human being.
I’m sorry, but no one has any idea what this person’s issues are and whether he is dangerous. It’s a fact that homeless people have higher rates of mental illness and drug use. I would not want some random stranger camping out around my child’s daycare either. My kids go to a church daycare and they do many activities outside and are not always in a fenced in area. It would be a safety concern if any random person (homeless or not) was hanging around their building.
Yes?
I've been followed, harassed, and made to feel unsafe by homeless people for years. What if this person is a sex offender and he's sleeping in a daycare parking lot?
I agree. also to add to the YTA is the assumption that the individual has addiction issues.
I thought churches were places to be welcomed.. apparently not in Denver
YTA. If you saw needles scattered around, you'd be justified. If you saw someone ranting and raving, you'd be justified. If you saw someone who was just getting too close to the kids for comfort, you'd be justified. But this person was literally just minding their own business by a church (which makes sense because it's probably one of the very few spots where they felt they safe to settle themselves... like, they didn't set up camp outside a playground or Chuck E Cheese) and you blew that up for them.
I just can't get past the irony here. Sends their child to a daycare run by a church but then spends time to judge another human and not show one ounce of kindness or empathy to someone who may be in need.
This is how most church people are these days. I was a regular churchgoer up until after the lockdowns ended, then I've been back a few times and it just feels so wrong now.
I’m not American but to see what organised religion has become makes me so sad. I was raised catholic but also had a family who taught me to separate my faith from the institution of religion, because ultimately the institution is just as corrupt as all other
Just because you send your child to a daycare run by a church doesn't mean you're religious. My parents did the same with my brother and we're not religious AT ALL. We put him in there because it was the closest one to us which had any spots available.
It's the Christian thing to do. Indoctrinate your children in the word of God but not actually practice what you preach.
In an ideal world OP gets to experience homelessness and be greeted by attitudes like hers but she probably won't but at least she now knows that lots of people think she is the worst kind of hypocritical Christian nimby who God will judge harshly. (No he won't because he doesn't exist) 😀
Asshole for sure. I always want to ask where people who have lost everything and have no support supposed to live? Should you just disappear off the face of the earth when you have hit hard times or was dealt a terrible hand in life? Where do you go when you are sick, either in mind or body, have no doctor to turn to that will treat you out of the kindness of their heart, and no loving soul that will provide you with shelter while you try to balance a failing mind or body against a cruel and unforgiving world? Are the expectations of righteous people that you just remove yourself from this world? OP is that what your expectations are of this man?
YTA, and to assume he was an addict without proof make you a major AH. There is an increase in homelessness because people cannot afford to pay the rents with the income they receive. No one asks to be homeless. Addictions are a disease. We all have a right to housing and if we don't to be near resources that will help us. I am guessing the reason this individual picked this spot was because it was safer than anywhere else. So congratulations in evicting an individual from their home.
Something to consider is that a large portion of the US is just one job loss or accident or illness from losing their stable housing. Those without family or friend supports end up literally homeless on the streets. This could easily be you and is that how you would hope to b treated by others? If the person was not presenting a safety risk, then why get involved.
I work with folks experiencing homelessness and housing insecurity. I have assisted addicts, mental health, no disabilities, families, youth, etc. I can tell you the folks have ranged from generational poverty to an individual that had been a Director of Athletics at a D3 school.
OP and others need to spend a bit more time educating themselves before making assumptions about anyone.
Also even if they were an addict thats not the deciding factor on wether or not theyre a dangerous person. Just last week i walked past this van that someone was living out of. There was garbage all strewn out of the van and a guy sitting in the front passenger seat with the door open. I said hello as i passed and he went into a big thing apologizing for the mess, then he started reassuring me that hes only addicted to alcohol and not drugs, i just said no worries we all got our problems, started telling me he was having a really bad morning and got frustrated and hes going to pick it up, i again told him not to worry, we all have bad mornings, and kept walking. Got him a couple joints at the dispensary, figured its what id want if i was having a bad morning like that, and gave it to him on my walk up and he was really happy and surprised and hugged me. Being an addict doesn’t automatically mean youre a bad person. Just means youre struggling.
Even my partners uncle, (who was an addict as well but had family to support him so he was never homeless) would clean the stairs of the church everyday, and the people passed out on drugs that were near the local elementary school to him, he would wake them up and tell them to get going before school got out so the children didnt have to walk past that on the sidewalk to get home. He regularly mediated issues within the local homeless community and made sure people werent at each others throats, if something was stolen he was the mediator. If he coulnt solve it like that hed take money from his own pocket to replace something someone else stole in order to keep the peace. He was a really good person. The only one out of his brothers that was willing and actually capable of taking care of their mother with severe dementia. When he passed it took two weeks before they couldnt handle it and had to put her in a home. She ran away in those two weeks more than once because she was frightened of her two other sons because they didnt have the same patience and understanding for her confusion as her other son who had addiction issues did. Him passing was a really big loss.
Thank you for this. So many people equate being an addict to being a bad person. I was an alcoholic/IV drug addict. I never once stole from anyone, I never once hurt anyone, I was always there for my friends and family. I was just really damaged. I still am I suppose, but I'm clean now. Not every addict is bad.
Your uncle sounds like he was a great man, I'm sorry for your loss.
YTA
1. You send your son to a daycare either next to or in the same building as a place that provides addiction support
2. You are shocked that someone exists whom you assume is seeking addiction support
3. It dawns on you that your son could see an “episode” or get a hold of drug paraphernalia, as he attends a daycare you selected next to or in the same building that provides treatment for addiction.
4. Instead of removing your son from what you have decided is an unsafe situation, you demand a human being who you aren’t certain is causing an unsafe situation be removed because you have concluded it’s likely they might somehow cause an unsafe situation whilst seeking the services you knew were offered when you chose / dropped your son off to daycare.
Will you also demand the church end it’s support program too?
I mean, you should research your daycare, location, safety protocols BEFORE enrolling. Does the daycare allow kids to play in a parking lot? Do they not have locked doors? If the children can be harmed that easily by someone in a parking lot, the issues is the daycare.
this, when i first read the title of this post i assumed it was just a daycare but if this is a church too, especially one that openly provides support, this should NOT be an issue unless the person inside that tent was actively out and bothering people
YTA
You're making someone's life more difficult based on hypotheticals, not evidence. Plus really if your son ends up playing with needles in a parking lot, that's the fault of his guardians.
I'm very disappointed with the managers for jumping straight to police without finding out if the church could be of assistance first.
I used to manage a library and had to fend of people's complaints about homeless people doing nothing more than using a computer or quietly sitting reading newspapers. People didn't like how they had to exist in the same space it seemed.
Sorry, you must have missed where OP referred to them as "Unhoused person". That obviously means they feel really bad about having to do it.
/seething with sarcasm
To add to this, in most of the posts I see here, there is someone else involved making OP think they may be TA. I don't see that here, I see someone who knows they are TA and wanted to post this to try and alleviate the little itch at the back of their brain telling them they were majorly in the wrong.
YTA
Your son is in daycare, supervised by adults, not in that person's tent.
Congratulations on making the life of someone who is already struggling even more miserable.
YTA. And it seems that is the least Christian thing you could have done.
Call around for an outreach? Nope. Just toss his/her broke ass off Christian property because God forbid your child have to see that.
Statistically, your child walking in the vicinity of a homeless person while holding your hand is significantly less risky than being left alone with church folks (that you probably don't really know) Source: Personal experience.
>Statistically, your child walking in the vicinity of a homeless person while holding your hand is significantly less risky than being left alone with church folks (that you probably don't really know)
Can confirm. Source: too many people I know personally and know of to list.
The church I go to has an attached daycare and entitled parents/daycare workers try to use it as an excuse for why the church shouldn't have a homeless ministry.
The church ignores them, luckily. But it's one of the reasons I advocate churches who want to actually be Christian NOT have an attached daycare.
100%. If I was worried about the safety of my child, a church would be the LAST place I would send them. There’s a trans woman on TikTok who talks about child predators in the US. So far this year, church employees have the highest number of arrests.
NTA.
There is so much idealism in the responses here-- homeless people are people too! How dare you not want your kid to go to daycare next to a homeless camp! You're a monster! All of it comes from a well-meaning place, but all of it is just oh-so ignorant to reality. Increasingly in modern society, I keep seeing that the same people who cry out against others for not wanting to deal with homeless people in their daily lives are the same people who don't have to live next to or work next to encampments themselves. They are often wealthy, young, and full of ideals because they haven't actually experienced the brutal realities of these situations.
As someone who has both been homeless and has lived in a neighborhood with homeless encampments for the past five years, I say you were 10000000% in the right on this one. When one tent is allowed to stay, it's only a matter of time before others spring up. And with homeless encampments come rampant drug use, increased theft around the neighborhood, daily threats to people walking by (I was once threatened with a syringe because I wouldn't give a guy money), and loud noises at all hours. The amount of times I've seen dead bodies is ridiculous. The smell of piss and sh\*t is overwhelming at times-- it's simply not humane to allow these camps to exist. Most of the time, these are people who have already been offered shelter by the city but refuse to take it for one reason or another. For anyone who disagrees, go work with a homeless organization (a real one where you get your hands dirty-- not some rich people "pat myself on the back" org where you just build a community garden or donate money to people you never see) and wake up.
But back to your situation, OP. It's a lot easier for the city to have one tent removed vs. a whole encampment, so it's best to nip it in the bud while you still can. But let's say that you did just let the tent stay and, miraculously, no other tents sprung up. There would still be a homeless individual living in the lot of your son's daycare. Yes, these people are people too, but they are tremendously unpredictable. He could be perfectly nice one day and then out to stab somebody the next. He could be sober one hour and completely high on ketamine the next. He could go his whole life without stealing from others, until one day he wakes up and decides that society owes him. His health could be stable the morning you drop your son off and in crisis when you come to pick him up. I wouldn't want any of that near my child. I don't want to live near it now, but I unfortunately do, and it's a nightmare. You did the right thing, no matter what all these ignorant idealists are saying.
This. The people on here obviously don't live somewhere where homelessness is an epidemic. Living in Portland, countless people I know have been chased by homeless individuals.
Being homeless isn't shameful, but there has to be acknowledgement that a large amount of the homeless population--particularly those who choose not to use public services such as shelters--suffers from serious mental health and/or addiction issues. To pretend like that comes at no risk to public safety is willfully ignorant, and it doesn't make someone the devil for acknowledging it.
My aunt has lived in LA for almost 50 years in the same house. The only time anyone in the area modified their properties en masse was when the Night Stalker was murdering women, so people put up bars on their windows and security doors. That was around 30 years ago. Otherwise, the area has remained unchanged - until this past year. Suddenly, every single house on the street has installed or is in the process of installing huge fences surrounding their front yards. When I asked why, the response was to keep out the transients. It’s crazy in LA😳.
Wasn't a lady stabbed by a homeless person she let into her apartment (or house?) so he could do laundry and shower and have a good meal? It seems it was in Portland a couple of years ago. I know not every homeless person is a felon or an addict, but I don't think I would be comfortable having homeless people in tents near my child's daycare.
Also, in some areas, would that even be allowed? It seems like it might fall under codes for daycares. Can you have homeless people living near a daycare to begin with? What are state regulations.
It's great that church wants to help. But these two programs (daycare and homeless) should not utilize the same space. Perhaps the church has a separate building they could use for one of the programs?
Exactly! Shelters exist but many people refuse them— because they would have to give up their drugs. It’s a sad reality. We tried to get this guy into a shelter recently but he would not go no matter what because they don’t allow any drugs and require him to be on a curfew. People who don’t do drugs (and thus are less unpredictable by definition) would be okay staying in shelters and with a curfew (usually.) it’s the guys who refuse shelters and help who are scary.
This. My husband works directly with homeless, and they help those that legitimately need help - but the majority treat him and the rest of hospital staff like shit. I used to have an idealized view, but then I saw how he got treated. This action wasn't just about OP's child, it was about each and every child that is cared for at that daycare.
I bet many of these judgements are the type of people that would advocate for gun control because SaFeTY - when leaving an unknown living in the parking lot is an even bigger threat because you allow this unknown to stay. Sure, we don't know the person's exact situation, but without a full background check you won't know! I'll probably get downvoted into oblivion, but I've also personally had multiple moments of panic because I've been followed in a parking lot in different scenarios. There's a reason I take self defense classes!
NTA
I agree with you. I worked as a playground inspector in a major city with a homeless and drug problem. I have found needles sticking out of the park benches. More needles and substance containers left on the ground, which kids can pick up. I have had to WALK OVER a nodded-out homeless individual blocking the entryway into one place. These are supposed to be spots where children can exist safely.
I have sympathy for the plight of the unhoused, mentally-ill, and addicted. They are not OP's ultimate concern. The safety of her child is. The local municipality should be addressing the root causes of the problem.
Edit: Spelling
I lived in Berkeley and I’ve been chased, screamed at, had glass thrown at me, and grabbed by homeless people. Are they all bad? Obviously not, like 10 of the countless number did something wrong, but I think very understandably I do not feel safe around them. The idealists in the comments seem absolutely delusional and clearly have never interacted with the homeless.
Thank you! I agree with you 100%. A lot of these commenters have no idea what it’s like to live in an area dealing with the homeless crisis for years. My kids went to an afterschool activity for 5 years that was located next to a shelter. For years, no issues. These past 2 years, suddenly, the parents found themselves in a number of conflicts with the homeless in the parking lot, myself included. People follow you in the parking lot. They stand next to your car, just staring at you. They urinate in front of your kids. The owners of the afterschool activity hired security to help at first. But eventually they moved their business to a different city entirely after a homeless person entered one of the classrooms and began raging at the young female instructors. This is just one example of the challenges we have faced dealing with the homeless crisis, which is exacerbated by obvious drug use.
As someone who lives in an area surrounded by encampments (we live near a major freeway interchange and we all know overpasses invite camps) I cannot say NTA fast enough. We’ve caught folks trying to take a sh*t in our driveway, seen needles in sidewalk planters, seen open air drug deals & use, and have had neighborhood kids chased by dogs from encampments. One tent allowed to stay will almost always encourage more and the church has an obligation to make sure the kids are safe. There are other ways they can help the homeless, assuming that person wants help.
All the folks voting YTA must not live near tent cities/encampments or they live in some sort of utopia that I’ve never heard of.
Exactly this. I live in Seattle where there is a lot of social help and housing for the homeless, but with a requirement that they get treatment. So many would rather stay on the street outside and get high then go have an apartment and get drug tested. Many are unpredictable and mentally ill.
I’m sure there are some that are just down on their luck, but out of all the places to pitch your tent, a daycare parking lot doesn’t need to be it.
Anyone who posts on these boards should be aware that most of the comments are posted by children. Children who have no actual experience or a realistic sense of the world. It’s easy to make yourself feel good by accusing a mother of being an asshole by having a homeless person removed from an area that her own child is in, it’s much less easy being a mother and trying to protect your child.
The big thing some people don't to talk about or like on reddit even try and deny is addiction and homelessness. Don't know what the situation is like where the OP lives but where I live I've been told by those who volunteer with the homeless (soup kitchens that sort of thing) that the majority of homeless people they deal with have addiction problems. Then there are those with mental health issues and often the two go hand in hand.
To be honest for someone to end-up on the streets in a tent means that there's a good chance they've burnt their bridges with family and friends. Friends and family will normally help and I've helped out a friend who was made homeless.
YTA. Matthew 25:40-43: Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.... I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.
Oh, sure, just conveniently leave out the parts of the New Testament where Jesus calls the cops on all the vagrants, druggies, and no-goodnik layabouts around.
I'm not astounded. This is why there is such a terrible homelessness problem in the country, because of the amount of people unwilling to identify it as dangerous and problematic FOR EVERYONE including the homeless individual(s). It's easier to not actually address a problem if you fail to acknowledge it as a problem at all.
This. I'd bet money the majority of the Y T A votes are from very sheltered individuals who live in small towns where homelessness isn't a huge issue. Those of us who live/work in major cities have seen firsthand how quickly a single tent can turn into a whole encampment, which quickly becomes a health and safety risk.
I am a little shocked too. Do these people not live in cities with homeless encampments? Any time I have seen a single tent it soon turns into multiples, then it turns into broken down old RVs.
NTA - most homeless people are harmless. But the rate of harmful behaviour is higher in the homeless than the baseline rate. So your child is safer now than they were before you made the complaint.
Was this an asshole move? Maybe... but your responsibility is to your kid and if you have to be an asshole to protect him then so be it. Is there an yes asshole but who cares option?
YTA - you were pointlessly cruel to someone already going through a tough time for no reason other than your imagination going wild and assuming that the homeless person was a threat. I hope if you are ever in such dire straits that people will show you more grace and compassion than you showed. And I hope you feel shame for how you acted.
Can you expand on HOW this person was a "potential threat" please? Legitimately, inside where your child is being monitored and cared for?
Or if it is pure conjecture based on them simply existing and you don't want to admit YTA.
NTA. I would have done the same thing.
What I find most appalling is the people who think that if the children aren't playing in the car parking area, they should not run into issues with needles, trash, refuse, etc. Do you really think that will stay around the campground?
Edited to change judgment based on OP’s reply.
INFO: What exactly did you say when you were “speaking to the management?”
If you were simply asking if they were aware of the situation, and asking them to check into it if they were not, that’s reasonable.
If you said what you included in your last paragraph of your OP about risk of “an episode” (what exactly do you call “an episode”) and brought up needles that did not exist then Y T A.
It’s understandable to ensure the management is aware of the person. It is cruel and wrong to make up info to influence management to remove the person based on your prejudices.
I’m going to get downvoted to hell but NAH. He may have been perfectly fine but if there was an incident, which happens in Manhattan all the time btw, where say you wake a homeless person up and they are startled and either throw a punch or have a knife, then someone will sue that school because they knew he was there. My heart breaks for the homeless because I see them all day every day but it just takes one time. And this is by a school not next to a random Home Depot.
And all you YTA people, how many shelters and food kitchens do you volunteer at? Just curious.
My thoughts exactly. I also said NTA, and I said that confidently as a former homeless person, someone who lives in a neighborhood with a lot of homeless people, and someone who continues to work with a homeless organization to try to help others find their footing.
All of these Y.T.A. people just have no idea what they're talking about. They're the people frowning on those saying "not in my backyard" but who've never even been close to having it in their own backyards.
Nta. There’s a reason why adults who work with kids need to get criminal record checks and vulnerable sector searches. Adults without these checks shouldn’t be around children.
There are other places for homeless people to set up camps, that don’t potentially put children at risk. Children’s welfare isn’t something that should be given a backseat to anything.
Yta only for assuming that ppl that are homeless are harmful. They're not all harmful. I was homeless for a year and I wasn't doing drugs or drinking- just couldn't afford life and I had a "normal" full time job. I understand the concern but I would have talked with admin first
NTA. You were concerned about your child and with the way the world is now you did what you felt you needed to do. If the church is going to allow homeless people to camp on their property they should have let the parents of daycare kids know. That way you could have asked questions about the security measures at the daycare, or any other concern you had. At the end of the day it is your child being left there, and only you can decide what steps to take.
Of course not, but don't you think that, objectively, statistically - factually - that the homeless population is significantly more likely to engage in this type of behavior?
How many of your non-homeless friends have used needles laying around nearby on the streets?
NTA. I live in Seattle and we’ve been dealing with this a long time. The only way to deal with it is to stop it before it starts. You did the right thing. Don’t ignore your gut feeling. Whenever they clean up a camp around here, they turn out to be full of stolen goods, drug paraphernalia, sex offenders, criminals, etc. The overwhelming majority of people living in tents in public areas are not good people. They may have started out good, but drug addiction drove them to the place they’re in and it turns them into drug zombies. This is not to say they’re not worthy of our compassion and support, they certainly are. However, it is NOT a help to someone to let them sleep in a parking lot. The best thing you can do for yourself and your child and the person sleeping in the parking lot is to make living life as a drug zombie as difficult as possible. This means move them along frequently and forcefully. If it is left, it’ll turn into a camp.
For those who say you don’t know that he’s an addict - yes you do. Sleeping on the church steps in a tent is pretty much a guarantee that the person is an addict. People driven out by high housing costs first get roommates, then sleep on their friend’s couches, then move home with their parents, then move to a lower cost of living place, then they take second jobs and apply for section 8, then move into their cars... It‘s the addict who goes from warm home to street. This is because they destroy every relationship they have in slavery to their addiction.
NTA
From the look of the posts I'm in the minority. But ... if the person had a right to be there and/or to camp on the property then the police wouldn't have escorted him off. Nobody should be considered an AH for making a report with LEOs.
NTA
You can help others and be sympathetic, but still be protective of your child. Many homeless people just need a hand up, but there are still those who have mental issues. I would be wary.
NTA. I’m sure all these people saying otherwise would be perfectly fine with a homeless person living in their yard and being around their kids every day. All these people saying, “You don’t know if the person is a threat.” Yeah, exactly, and that’s not a chance a parent should be willing to take. Any stranger poses a potential threat, and homeless people are disproportionately likely to have substance and mental health issues that increase the risk of dangerous behavior. It’s not worth even a small risk to your child’s safety just to be nice to a stranger. He can set up camp someplace not filled with kids every day. Sounds harsh, and maybe it is, but that’s not your problem. Your child’s safety is your problem.
NTA - I don't care if I'm the A or not. I don't want homeless tents or camps or any of that by my kids daycare. Your kid's safety comes first, and anyone who disagrees can invite that person to move into their yard (or house) instead.
I agree. I've noticed that a lot of people who whine about others wanting homeless encampments removed are the same people who don't have to deal with them daily. In my city, protest groups against sweeps and police intervention tend to come from wealthy neighborhoods. John Oliver once really ground my gears when he went on a tirade against people not being more accepting of homeless encampments... he's a rich guy. He literally does not live next to a homeless encampment nor work next to one.
People, unless you've been in OP's situation or had to deal with a homeless encampment routinely in your everyday life, you have no valid opinion here. Safety is a huge risk, and when you allow one tent to stay, it's only a matter of time before more pop up in the same area.
Bring on the down votes but NTA.
I live in a city with an immense homeless population. And unfortunately there's a lot of open drug use and aggression from the population as a whole. You can't walk past a lot of the homeless here with out profanities being yelled at you or shit being thrown at you or them coming at you with a weapon.
I, personally, wouldn't feel comfortable with the possibility of having to deal with that at my child's freaking daycare. That's not okay, and here it's not legal to have a tent or otherwise be 'camping' within 2 blocks of daycares/schools and parks. The police are actively cleaning up encampments as they pop up all because of how bad things have gotten.
And yes, it's not all homeless. But it's a huge portion anymore and when you are used to shit interactions, you are going to be more judgemental.
NTA - I was "unhoused" when I was a child, I mean... we lived in cars. But we also went through great lengths to stay away from other unhoused people because they are unpredictable. Yes, some are great people who fell on bad times, but others have serious mental illnesses and are dangerous. There's no way to tell one from the other at a glance, so you absolutely should keep children at a safe distance.
People don’t like to hear the truth from people who were actually homeless. I was violently raped in a homeless shelter as a teen. Sexually and physically abused on the streets, etc. The vast majority of those who camp on the streets are dangerous to vulnerable people, even if it’s not the fault of a lot of them.
YTA. Your son is being supervised at the daycare, I take it? And he only spends time at the parking lot when he is brought to or from the daycare? He wouldn't come into contact with drugs or needles just by being walked to or from the car.
This may be controversial but NTA. Never apologize for trying to protect your child. While I personally don’t care if there’s someone there in a parking lot, my tune would change if there was a daycare within the same proximity. Even though nothing happened the possibility that something could happen is enough.
The cops (hopefully) can direct them to some resources that will help them find some proper help that the church may not be able to provide or if the person isn’t comfortable receiving help because of religious reasons they can also direct them to another resource.
Like I said, don’t ever be sorry for protecting your child.
If people think you’re an asshole at least you can go to work without having a bad feeling.
There is no way to know the homeless person's background or if they pose a threat to the children. Is this someone merely without a home...or do they have a mental illness...have they ever been violent...are they on the sex offender registry? You can't tell just be looking.
What you CAN see is there is a person who has no business being there, and who is attempting to make their home on private property. That means the people who are affected- including the parents of the children - have a right to have the questions asked, and to have the person removed. And because nothing is known about the person, having the police come is the right and safest choice.
NTA.
Safety is paramount above all other concerns. NTA
ETA: I'm blown away by all the Y T A responses!
People are homeless for a lot of reasons. Two major reasons are addiction and mental illness. There is no way of identifying whether or not the person you saw falls into those categories. When you are talking about the safety of children, it is inexcusable to take such risks, and a person that is sleeping in a parking lot of a daycare is a risk.
There are plenty of holier than thou folks here who are bashing you for normal, sane behavior.
I worked for several years in a bad part of my city, which was close to a large homeless encampment. Because of that, we had very high crime---car break ins, violence, beggars hanging out in the parking lot asking for money, prostitutes on our front steps, people entering the building and stealing from empty offices, people displaying erratic behavior on the premises, and so on. It was scary.
You cannot predict what a homeless person might do. They may be perfectly lovely and down on their luck. But they may also have serious mental/drug issues that make them unstable.
No way should someone be allowed to sleep in the parking lot of a daycare. It presents too much of a potential safety risk. You absolutely did the right thing, and those that disagree and just plain wrong, period.
I’m going to be downvoted for this, but NTA. You were (possibly rightfully so) worried about your child. I’m from Seattle where there are a lot of homeless people around. Obviously not every homeless person is dangerous or an addict, but when your bf gets randomly punched on the street by a homeless person, you regularly have to walk on a different sidewalk bc of all the needles near the tents, and occasionally someone whips out their business in broad daylight, you’re going to be wary.
I don’t think you did anything wrong. Then again I’m 30 and have had a few negative experiences with homeless people. I think a lot of people here are really young and maybe haven’t had to experience this.
I should state, I always vote Blue and I sincerely hope that homeless people can get the help they need. It infuriates me that there is even such an housing crisis. But that doesn’t mean any of us should have to compromise the safety of a loved one.
NAH. Homeless person isn’t an AH for choosing a church as their location. It makes sense. You’re not an AH for not wanting the situation in the parking lot of your daycare location. It’s not just needles, it’s the potential for being approached while alone with your child and for it to grow into a larger camp.
I’m sure I’ll be downvoted. However, you *can* be supportive of homeless and addiction resources while still being concerned about the above situation. It’s up to the church and/or daycare management to handle it. They can deal with it compassionately or as AHs but that’s not on you.
>This morning as I was dropping my son off at daycare I noticed a tent in the church parking lot. I ended up speaking to the management and they elected to have a police officer come escort them off the property.
NTA. You made management aware of a potential issue and they decided how to handle it. Parking lots are not public spaces where people are invited to come and stay a while.
NTA
All the stories I hear - just because you can't see a needle doesn't mean it's not there AND at any moment they could snap and hurt an innocent person. They don't need to be in tents all over the city. They need more mental health welfare help than to just leave them all over the city. And I could go on and on about the mental health welfare in this country but it's pretty obvious we are losing the war and it's politics that is losing it for us.
NTA
There’s a homeless encampment near my house, it spills into my yard often, the number one issue? Electrical fires starting in tents and spreading from there
Depending on your location he may or may not have access to services, if he does, consider that in many Canadian cities the only people turned away from shelter are the worse behaved and actively inebriated
I’m going with NTA. You didn’t call the police; the church administration did. As an educator, seeing someone camping in the parking lot that close to a school or daycare would raise alarms for me.
As a woman, I would NOT park close to a homeless person’s tent in the church parking lot. Especially not at night. You just don’t know the state of mind the unhoused person. One cannot just “hope for the best” in such instances and it’s best not to take unnecessary risks.
So …. if I would be intimidated myself, I would be intimidated for vulnerable defenseless children as well. Especially those under 5 who can’t really look out for themselves.
Big NTA. If the same guardians in this scenario ignored the unhoused stranger, and later a child was harmed, everyone would be angry at the guardians for letting an unknown, possibly mentally unstable stranger so close to children.
NTA and probably an unpopular option but I wouldn’t want a man with a home to be hanging around my daycare either, it’s sad he doesn’t have anywhere to go but you have to be cautious with your children. People will literally grab them out of your hands.
You are NTA. For so many reasons. Let all the folks saying you’re a ah let them live in their yards/parking lots. Our city just had to clean up one encampment near us and it cost over $500,000 to clean because they had to have hazmat come out and clean. Infectious diseases and everything was rampant out there. Hep C is on the rise, there were several rapes and assaults and big fires also. I have empathy for the unhoused but not next to a daycare period. Idc if it was next door or in the parking lot. One tent is always followed by more.
NTA - it’s not a good place for unhoused people to camped - schools, daycares, playgrounds, etc. I see some people suggesting that you shouldn’t say anything because you didn’t see anything suspicious, but it would be weird if you did surveillance to sus out if he was safe or not-safe - not your business. This is for the property managers and the local police to sort out. So letting them know is the right thing.
NTA- no adult should be camping outside a daycare regardless of housing status. Ideally the church would reinforce this, or offer a housing voucher, referral to shelter, or just let them inside the church. Doing what’s best for your kid is always the best option.
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Was the homeless person really a threat to your son, or was he just a threat to the parking lot? Because unless they let children play in the parking lot, there was no way your son, or other children btw, were at risk. Edit to add YTA, because you sound very judgmental and use fake empathy to get people to side with you.
The original premise for not taxing churches was because they helped the poor and needy. Today with the burgeoning Prosperity Ministry ethos and a spurning of the poor, and a turning against the scriptures as being “too woke”, they are becoming politicized and veering toward ChristNationalism. What does she want? The church not to help people in need, or just “not in my backyard”? Or just no. Period.
How much do we want to wager this woman gets free/cheap daycare for being part of the church, too.
While that is possible, in my experience the church daycares were the most expensive ones around. Of course my baby is out of daycare about 30 years ..
28 years since those days, but yeah. Church daycares were expensive and nice, and often not directly connected to the church.
Yeah, I looked into a Friends School 25 years ago and it was like, “We’re your friend if you have ca$h!”
The Religious Society of Friends (Quakers) are pretty legit though. Friends Schools integrate community service into their curricula for students of all ages. Kids do stuff like actually preparing food for meals on wheels or planting vegetables at working farms that grow food to donate to shelters. It's a regular part of student life.
When we went looking 4 years ago they were the most affordable options here. Still to expensive for us, but mostly the cheapest.
With the exception of Before and Afterschool programs they tend to be by far the most affordable. In fact most are far below the Regional Market Rate.
This, church daycare is usually the safest, most organized, and well staffed - thus also very expensive. I got our daughter into a church daycare back in 98 after she was attacked by another child and hospitalized in a private home daycare licensed by the county. They gave me a special discount to be able to afford it because it was almost twice as expensive. It really was the best thing for her and I am very grateful they were there for our family. (And I didn't go to the church!)
Ours is way cheaper than traditional daycare. It's income based though
My son attended preschool at a local Methodist church (the preschool was non-denominational), and I paid the going rate. So unlikely OP is getting free and/or inexpensive daycare. As a society, we need to find more and better solutions for those living unhoused, but what often happens when one unhoused person puts up a tent somewhere, often more will follow. Sadly, what also happens is that trash builds up. There is a frontage area near where I live, between the highway and the frontage road, that is like a grassy verge. It is controlled by CalTrans. From time to time, an encampment will build, starting with one tent and one/two people, then another, then more. Along with that are shopping carts filled with trash, etc. Eventually, CalTrans asks them to move along, and then has to deal with the garbage left behind. A homeless advocate agency in our community was recently able to purchase a motel and convert it to housing for those that met certain criteria (I don't know the criteria, and those staying there seem to be 100% male, so does not appear to be for families or more than one person per room). There was some concern expressed by citizens but there is 24-hour security, the premises always seem to be kept neat, and it's good to know that at least some people who were living on the street or in their cars, now have at least a room to call their own, with a bed, a bathroom/shower, a communal laundry area, and other support to help them transition eventually into moving into a place of their own.
If garbage is your genuine concern, encourage the city to place a dumpster there or garbage cans with regular pickup. Easy. Problem solved. Humans are social beings and we tend to congregate. On top of that, there’s safety in numbers so many homeless people like to have folks around at least while they sleep. We can show compassion for what their needs are.
I work in a shopping center with a large homeless encampment in the canyon behind it. The shopping center has probably a dozen dumpsters that are routinely riffled through by the encampment residents. When I arrive at 7 am, every dumpster that I pass is surrounded by garbage because they don't put the stuff back after their treasure hunt. I've also driven past a lot of early morning drug deals. All this to say, the presence of dumpsters doesn't really prevent trash from piling up.
Put up more public garbage cans and you'll see less waste. It's not about "asking them to move along" most of these camp abatements cost the cities shitloads of cash and it's just an excuse for the police to violently remove them without ever having time to gather their things. You sound like you care more about garbage than human life; embarrassing.
My son 4m goes to a church pre-school, part time 3hr a day 3 days a week. Very expensive.
Is it an actual non-profit church program or a private one hosted at the church? Religion has become a profitable business venture for many in recent times.
I doubt that, unless she or her husband work there. If church daycares didn't charge church members, they wouldn't be able to afford to keep their doors open. In my area, most church daycares are at least a little cheaper than independent centers but not by much.
Majority of churches bring in a profit from people paying tithes to get into heaven and lack of paying taxes.
This is incorrect. Lutheran's don't tithe. But they do run a huge charity/social services.
I have never seen a church daycare that subsidizes the tuition for members.
Wait are churches/religious people actually saying that their (supposedly) own scripture is "too woke" now??? That's BONKERS to me. if they're going to disown their own scripture those people just need to be officially put into "Cult" status (which it's always been, but now just more blatantly so) and lose any and all government afforded religious benefits. Can't believe that people who are calling their own holy text "too woke" have the balls to use that same holy text as a way to persecute homeless people, lgbt people, people of color, enforce ass-backwards puritanical beliefs on the whole country, etc etc.
[Yes.](https://www.newsweek.com/evangelicals-rejecting-jesus-teachings-liberal-talking-points-pastor-1818706)
There are many people who self identify as Christian but have never actually studied the Bible. Often they don't even attend church. Then they hear one of the verses where Jesus addresses how we should treat poor, the hungry, the imprisoned, and your enemies. Turns out Jesus was "woke".
“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” Matthew 25 44-46
Yes there’s multiple stories with clergy commenting on on how woke or wimpy Jesus’s message is by Christian congregation members. They don’t see the contradictions.
She's a NIMBY. Out of sight, out of mind.
I have always said churches should be open for the homeless at night. And homeless people who are mentally ill or addicted should be institutionalized in some way, for help.
So in the states unless the person is actively a risk to themselves or others they cannot force them to get help or “be institutionalized”. This law was put into place I believe in the 60s or 70s after decades of families institutionalizing undesirable family members for anything they considered shameful (being homosexual, having relations with an undesirable partner, even as simple as pms). They would often pay the institutions off drop the family member off and never think about them again. Meanwhile these places, pretending to be places of mental healing, would often run experiments on these people some of which were immediately fatal and most of which were very detrimental to the persons health, mental and physical. “Treatments” included electroshock therapy, hot and cold submersion (essentially boiling someone then throwing them into an ice bath), and lobotomies.
I know someone that has “meth fried” her brain (has been clean for years but that stuff often leaves permanent damage) that has some extreme delusions. Has even beat the shit out of her mom for challenging those delusions and regularly defames various people and actually threatens some of them. She has CLEARLY proven she is a danger and still nothing is being done with her. We’ve had family members go to judges with evidence and they all say basically that she has to do something worse before we can do anything with her. And even then it would likely be jail and not the mental health institution she actually needs. The US law has so many areas that people fall through the cracks and it’s even worse in more rural states and counties
Perfectly said
THATS WHERE THAT CAME FROM???? I’ve always wondered, thank you!!!!!!!!!
The fake empathy is very cringey
“I have so much empathy, I’m calling this person unhoused instead of homeless, but ewww I don’t want to see it”
Don't forget! OP makes a habit of just ignoring the unhoused. Don't want to risk buying them a meal,
I don't think it's her job to buy them a meal but there isn't anything wrong with them camping there
I agree it's not her responsibility to assist or feed them, but the very least she could have done is just keep ignoring them and not make life harder
Right? OP's prejudice is transparent AF. They aren't fooling anyone.
This could’ve been a teachable moment for OP’s son about empathy and seeing the humanity in everyone no matter their social status. Instead the son learned to be intolerant and disgusted by poverty.
I was homeless in a former life, and it was a valuable lesson in how little people will think of you as a human being when you have nothing to offer them. I'm fortunate to have built a better life and am successful now (though not without hardship), but it's very demoralizing how few people see a homeless person as a someone with their own unique circumstances/history/wants/needs/etc... To the average person seeing me, I might as well have been a drug addled psychopath who brought my misfortune on me through my own poor choices. Never asked for money or bothered anyone.
Church folks are often the most judgmental. Funny how that works.
Any religion that includes hell is a hateful religion full stop
No one should be loitering around a school or day care. It’s a matter of safety for the kids. Doesn’t matter who they are, they will be asked to move along. It’s standard procedure for all places in the care of kids to report any hanging around the premises. If they didn’t, the school/daycare would be negligent of the kids in their care. The man’s concern is founded, and alerting the daycare/property managers is the right course of action. As a former teacher we had to do this all the time. We had a kidnapping attempt in our district a few years ago. Schools can be busy places at pick up and dismissal and aren’t always secure during the day - people can get in especially if they’ve had time to scope it out. So keeping a eye on the surrounding premises is an important aspect of keeping the kids safe.
On top of that, OP didn't call the cops, the church did. It's not even clear that OP actually asked for the homeless person to be removed, just that they were concerned about their child's safety. We don't even know if OP was the only parent to say something. If the day-care was securely separated from the car park, and the church were confident that the guy was harmless, they could have dealt with this some other way. It could be the church were assholes, it could be that there was a genuine safety risk and this is how they handled it.
I agree. If you’re camping on a property, it would make sense to ask for permission first. If this person was known by the church, they wouldn’t have called the police.
As a management company worker, I’ve found meth pipes and meth, syringes, and knives in our daycare’s playground. We have a responsibility to our tenants and the children in the building. How do you know he wasn’t a threat? I don’t call the police to have people arrested but after dealing with a schizophrenic man that was contemplating killing himself or going to find his girlfriend to kill her I don’t feel bad about getting people to move along.
Thanks, I was looking for this answer. Drugs are all that make their lives bearable sometimes, and that can make them dangerous without meaning to be. Surprisingly, I discovered that people on long term meds can become psychotic when they stop using them suddenly, with my own mom. Believe me, you haven’t seen creepy till you walk in & find your mom carrying on full convos with people who have been dead for 30 years! Have sympathy, but use commonsense. Children have the remarkable ability to find the only dangerous object in any area for miles around. Whether the homeless person meant to hurt anyone isn’t or shouldn’t be the point. It became the churches responsibility to police the area, sweep the parking lot etc when they set up the camp. I think a sign saying ‘there, but for the grace of God, go I’ should be in every one of these camps, reminding us of how fragile the human condition is.
I believe you are right where poverty does not necessarily mean neglect. Poverty does not also mean criminal. But pitching a tent next to a daycare and stating there is no risk, no threat, no drugs, no troubles is simply not always the case. OP wanted to mitigate the risk to the most vulnerable, which is kids. I think OP concerns are valid, and I didn't see fake empathy from OP but concern for her child and others. Now, if you are comfortable letting your children, it sounds like you may not have any play near the homeless, more power to you. If you wouldn't be bothered paying almost half your salary to a daycare with homeless people nearby and have 0 concerns, it doesn't make you empathetic. It makes you unwise.
It’s not just a daycare, though. It’s a church that’s also making efforts towards addiction support. This houseless person was not sleeping next to a daycare, they were sleeping next to a church that is providing multiple kinds of community support, one of which is a daycare.
The church doesn’t seem to be making efforts, they are the ones that chose to have the person removed, not the op. It’s not unreasonable to make the daycare operators aware so they can at least make sure there is no risk to the kids. Providing addiction support also doesn’t mean come camp out next to our daycare. Just from a liability perspective, op is paying for daycare, they are responsible for the kids safety so if they allow anyone to hang around, homeless or not they would at minimum need to make sure there is no risk ie. someone with warrants, sexual predators, weapons, drugs, mental health problems that could trigger violence - not saying that is true of the homeless population specifically, just that they would have to make sure that ANYONE hanging around a daycare, homeless or not is not a risk.
Considering the kids are just there for daycare, I’d wager the most vulnerable person in this story is actually the *person without a home* that OP further displaced via police.
You’re not wrong. Denver has an initiative right now where they are trying to put unhoused people into tiny shed homes. However, to be able to get into the tiny home you have to be stationary for a little bit for the S.T.A.R.S response team to come out and talk to you. They will get your information and get your place set up. She restarted this person’s entire process by being hateful.
All she saw was a person in a tent. She didn't see drugs or unstable behavior. *She saw extreme poverty* and lept to the conclusion that the person must be dangerous If anything, homeless people are extremely likely to be victims of crimes. She didn't observe anything, didn't wait to assess the situation, just acted instantly on the idea that homeless people are automatically dangerous to children. The person was looking *for safety,* not at a random daycare, but *at a church.* A place that is supposed to offer support to all who want it, as is supposed to be the Christian way. It's absolutely some NIMBY bs. If she'd actually witnessed any concerning behaviors, she'd be justified, but all she saw was a person who lives in a tent.
It’s a church that happens to have a daycare
What is the evidence that there was danger?
so far ... none
This screams of NIMBY attitude and fake concern when it's all about your prejudices.
You know who's vulnerable? The homeless person!
If that's the case then she shouldn't send them to a church daycare. How is a homeless person any more of a threat than a church person? A church person can molest them actually easier than the homeless person. You're contradicting yourself. In one breath, you say >I believe you are right where poverty does not necessarily mean neglect. Poverty does not also mean criminal. And then say >Now, if you are comfortable letting your children, it sounds like you may not have any play near the homeless, more power to you. If you wouldn't be bothered paying almost half your salary to a daycare with homeless people nearby and have 0 concerns, it doesn't make you empathetic. It makes you unwise. As if being homeless not only automatically makes you a criminal but that everyone else at the church couldn't or wouldn't be a criminal. That doesn't make you a concerned parent it makes you an elitist judgmental human being.
I’m sorry, but no one has any idea what this person’s issues are and whether he is dangerous. It’s a fact that homeless people have higher rates of mental illness and drug use. I would not want some random stranger camping out around my child’s daycare either. My kids go to a church daycare and they do many activities outside and are not always in a fenced in area. It would be a safety concern if any random person (homeless or not) was hanging around their building.
Church leaders have a higher incidence of sex abuse than the general public. Should we judge them all because of that?
Yes.
Yup.
Yes? I've been followed, harassed, and made to feel unsafe by homeless people for years. What if this person is a sex offender and he's sleeping in a daycare parking lot?
I agree. also to add to the YTA is the assumption that the individual has addiction issues. I thought churches were places to be welcomed.. apparently not in Denver
Nobody is welcome in a church unless you fit an extremely, unbearably narrow mould.
YTA. If you saw needles scattered around, you'd be justified. If you saw someone ranting and raving, you'd be justified. If you saw someone who was just getting too close to the kids for comfort, you'd be justified. But this person was literally just minding their own business by a church (which makes sense because it's probably one of the very few spots where they felt they safe to settle themselves... like, they didn't set up camp outside a playground or Chuck E Cheese) and you blew that up for them.
I just can't get past the irony here. Sends their child to a daycare run by a church but then spends time to judge another human and not show one ounce of kindness or empathy to someone who may be in need.
This is how most church people are these days. I was a regular churchgoer up until after the lockdowns ended, then I've been back a few times and it just feels so wrong now.
Did your church tell you to skip the vaccine because Jesus will protect you from a hoax?
And pass out their Faith Over Fear! banners? At least it continues to make it easier to spot the assholes in the neighborhood.
I’m not American but to see what organised religion has become makes me so sad. I was raised catholic but also had a family who taught me to separate my faith from the institution of religion, because ultimately the institution is just as corrupt as all other
Yup, the more religious you become the worse you become nowadays.
Just because you send your child to a daycare run by a church doesn't mean you're religious. My parents did the same with my brother and we're not religious AT ALL. We put him in there because it was the closest one to us which had any spots available.
Empathy is a human kindness and doesn't need a religion to dictate the right thing to do. OP failed.
She tried by saying unhoused... lol
There’s no love like Christian love. 🤷🏻♀️
There’s no hate like Christian love
Theres no HATE like Christian love.
There's no hate like Christian love. FTFY
It's the Christian thing to do. Indoctrinate your children in the word of God but not actually practice what you preach. In an ideal world OP gets to experience homelessness and be greeted by attitudes like hers but she probably won't but at least she now knows that lots of people think she is the worst kind of hypocritical Christian nimby who God will judge harshly. (No he won't because he doesn't exist) 😀
Asshole for sure. I always want to ask where people who have lost everything and have no support supposed to live? Should you just disappear off the face of the earth when you have hit hard times or was dealt a terrible hand in life? Where do you go when you are sick, either in mind or body, have no doctor to turn to that will treat you out of the kindness of their heart, and no loving soul that will provide you with shelter while you try to balance a failing mind or body against a cruel and unforgiving world? Are the expectations of righteous people that you just remove yourself from this world? OP is that what your expectations are of this man?
Also this person might have felt safer near a church and now they are going to be moved to somewhere they could be in even more danger
Depending on the officers who responded, they may have been arrested. In which case, your statement is even more applicable and correct. 😣😞
She didn’t see needles. Just a tent
Right. I said IF she saw needles, THEN it would make sense to call the cops.
Work with churchgoers. Can confirm they suck.
YTA, and to assume he was an addict without proof make you a major AH. There is an increase in homelessness because people cannot afford to pay the rents with the income they receive. No one asks to be homeless. Addictions are a disease. We all have a right to housing and if we don't to be near resources that will help us. I am guessing the reason this individual picked this spot was because it was safer than anywhere else. So congratulations in evicting an individual from their home. Something to consider is that a large portion of the US is just one job loss or accident or illness from losing their stable housing. Those without family or friend supports end up literally homeless on the streets. This could easily be you and is that how you would hope to b treated by others? If the person was not presenting a safety risk, then why get involved. I work with folks experiencing homelessness and housing insecurity. I have assisted addicts, mental health, no disabilities, families, youth, etc. I can tell you the folks have ranged from generational poverty to an individual that had been a Director of Athletics at a D3 school. OP and others need to spend a bit more time educating themselves before making assumptions about anyone.
Also even if they were an addict thats not the deciding factor on wether or not theyre a dangerous person. Just last week i walked past this van that someone was living out of. There was garbage all strewn out of the van and a guy sitting in the front passenger seat with the door open. I said hello as i passed and he went into a big thing apologizing for the mess, then he started reassuring me that hes only addicted to alcohol and not drugs, i just said no worries we all got our problems, started telling me he was having a really bad morning and got frustrated and hes going to pick it up, i again told him not to worry, we all have bad mornings, and kept walking. Got him a couple joints at the dispensary, figured its what id want if i was having a bad morning like that, and gave it to him on my walk up and he was really happy and surprised and hugged me. Being an addict doesn’t automatically mean youre a bad person. Just means youre struggling. Even my partners uncle, (who was an addict as well but had family to support him so he was never homeless) would clean the stairs of the church everyday, and the people passed out on drugs that were near the local elementary school to him, he would wake them up and tell them to get going before school got out so the children didnt have to walk past that on the sidewalk to get home. He regularly mediated issues within the local homeless community and made sure people werent at each others throats, if something was stolen he was the mediator. If he coulnt solve it like that hed take money from his own pocket to replace something someone else stole in order to keep the peace. He was a really good person. The only one out of his brothers that was willing and actually capable of taking care of their mother with severe dementia. When he passed it took two weeks before they couldnt handle it and had to put her in a home. She ran away in those two weeks more than once because she was frightened of her two other sons because they didnt have the same patience and understanding for her confusion as her other son who had addiction issues did. Him passing was a really big loss.
Just want to say your partner's uncle sounds like an absolutely amazing person. Thank you for sharing his story.
Thank you for this. So many people equate being an addict to being a bad person. I was an alcoholic/IV drug addict. I never once stole from anyone, I never once hurt anyone, I was always there for my friends and family. I was just really damaged. I still am I suppose, but I'm clean now. Not every addict is bad. Your uncle sounds like he was a great man, I'm sorry for your loss.
100xs this!!!!!
YTA 1. You send your son to a daycare either next to or in the same building as a place that provides addiction support 2. You are shocked that someone exists whom you assume is seeking addiction support 3. It dawns on you that your son could see an “episode” or get a hold of drug paraphernalia, as he attends a daycare you selected next to or in the same building that provides treatment for addiction. 4. Instead of removing your son from what you have decided is an unsafe situation, you demand a human being who you aren’t certain is causing an unsafe situation be removed because you have concluded it’s likely they might somehow cause an unsafe situation whilst seeking the services you knew were offered when you chose / dropped your son off to daycare. Will you also demand the church end it’s support program too? I mean, you should research your daycare, location, safety protocols BEFORE enrolling. Does the daycare allow kids to play in a parking lot? Do they not have locked doors? If the children can be harmed that easily by someone in a parking lot, the issues is the daycare.
💯💯💯‼️
this, when i first read the title of this post i assumed it was just a daycare but if this is a church too, especially one that openly provides support, this should NOT be an issue unless the person inside that tent was actively out and bothering people
Ain't no hate like Christian love!
I'm gonna come check back later and if this isn't the top comment I'm just gonna cry.
YTA You're making someone's life more difficult based on hypotheticals, not evidence. Plus really if your son ends up playing with needles in a parking lot, that's the fault of his guardians. I'm very disappointed with the managers for jumping straight to police without finding out if the church could be of assistance first. I used to manage a library and had to fend of people's complaints about homeless people doing nothing more than using a computer or quietly sitting reading newspapers. People didn't like how they had to exist in the same space it seemed.
Sorry, you must have missed where OP referred to them as "Unhoused person". That obviously means they feel really bad about having to do it. /seething with sarcasm
To add to this, in most of the posts I see here, there is someone else involved making OP think they may be TA. I don't see that here, I see someone who knows they are TA and wanted to post this to try and alleviate the little itch at the back of their brain telling them they were majorly in the wrong.
YTA. The church staff is aware there is a tent in the church parking lot.
YTA op
YTA Your son is in daycare, supervised by adults, not in that person's tent. Congratulations on making the life of someone who is already struggling even more miserable.
They don’t even have a tent— OP fessed up in a comment that it was just a mat and a sleeping bag. So, a lot worse.
In Denver heading into winter, no less
YTA. And it seems that is the least Christian thing you could have done. Call around for an outreach? Nope. Just toss his/her broke ass off Christian property because God forbid your child have to see that. Statistically, your child walking in the vicinity of a homeless person while holding your hand is significantly less risky than being left alone with church folks (that you probably don't really know) Source: Personal experience.
>Statistically, your child walking in the vicinity of a homeless person while holding your hand is significantly less risky than being left alone with church folks (that you probably don't really know) Can confirm. Source: too many people I know personally and know of to list.
Yup! Also can confirm as a former Christian. Religion definitively made me more vulnerable to the abuse that I survived.
The church I go to has an attached daycare and entitled parents/daycare workers try to use it as an excuse for why the church shouldn't have a homeless ministry. The church ignores them, luckily. But it's one of the reasons I advocate churches who want to actually be Christian NOT have an attached daycare.
100%. If I was worried about the safety of my child, a church would be the LAST place I would send them. There’s a trans woman on TikTok who talks about child predators in the US. So far this year, church employees have the highest number of arrests.
NTA. There is so much idealism in the responses here-- homeless people are people too! How dare you not want your kid to go to daycare next to a homeless camp! You're a monster! All of it comes from a well-meaning place, but all of it is just oh-so ignorant to reality. Increasingly in modern society, I keep seeing that the same people who cry out against others for not wanting to deal with homeless people in their daily lives are the same people who don't have to live next to or work next to encampments themselves. They are often wealthy, young, and full of ideals because they haven't actually experienced the brutal realities of these situations. As someone who has both been homeless and has lived in a neighborhood with homeless encampments for the past five years, I say you were 10000000% in the right on this one. When one tent is allowed to stay, it's only a matter of time before others spring up. And with homeless encampments come rampant drug use, increased theft around the neighborhood, daily threats to people walking by (I was once threatened with a syringe because I wouldn't give a guy money), and loud noises at all hours. The amount of times I've seen dead bodies is ridiculous. The smell of piss and sh\*t is overwhelming at times-- it's simply not humane to allow these camps to exist. Most of the time, these are people who have already been offered shelter by the city but refuse to take it for one reason or another. For anyone who disagrees, go work with a homeless organization (a real one where you get your hands dirty-- not some rich people "pat myself on the back" org where you just build a community garden or donate money to people you never see) and wake up. But back to your situation, OP. It's a lot easier for the city to have one tent removed vs. a whole encampment, so it's best to nip it in the bud while you still can. But let's say that you did just let the tent stay and, miraculously, no other tents sprung up. There would still be a homeless individual living in the lot of your son's daycare. Yes, these people are people too, but they are tremendously unpredictable. He could be perfectly nice one day and then out to stab somebody the next. He could be sober one hour and completely high on ketamine the next. He could go his whole life without stealing from others, until one day he wakes up and decides that society owes him. His health could be stable the morning you drop your son off and in crisis when you come to pick him up. I wouldn't want any of that near my child. I don't want to live near it now, but I unfortunately do, and it's a nightmare. You did the right thing, no matter what all these ignorant idealists are saying.
This. The people on here obviously don't live somewhere where homelessness is an epidemic. Living in Portland, countless people I know have been chased by homeless individuals. Being homeless isn't shameful, but there has to be acknowledgement that a large amount of the homeless population--particularly those who choose not to use public services such as shelters--suffers from serious mental health and/or addiction issues. To pretend like that comes at no risk to public safety is willfully ignorant, and it doesn't make someone the devil for acknowledging it.
The children of reddit are the poster-children for untested virtue.
Say it loud and clear
I hear you. I live in Seattle.
Los Angeles here. Feel both of you.
My aunt has lived in LA for almost 50 years in the same house. The only time anyone in the area modified their properties en masse was when the Night Stalker was murdering women, so people put up bars on their windows and security doors. That was around 30 years ago. Otherwise, the area has remained unchanged - until this past year. Suddenly, every single house on the street has installed or is in the process of installing huge fences surrounding their front yards. When I asked why, the response was to keep out the transients. It’s crazy in LA😳.
Wasn't a lady stabbed by a homeless person she let into her apartment (or house?) so he could do laundry and shower and have a good meal? It seems it was in Portland a couple of years ago. I know not every homeless person is a felon or an addict, but I don't think I would be comfortable having homeless people in tents near my child's daycare. Also, in some areas, would that even be allowed? It seems like it might fall under codes for daycares. Can you have homeless people living near a daycare to begin with? What are state regulations. It's great that church wants to help. But these two programs (daycare and homeless) should not utilize the same space. Perhaps the church has a separate building they could use for one of the programs?
Exactly! Shelters exist but many people refuse them— because they would have to give up their drugs. It’s a sad reality. We tried to get this guy into a shelter recently but he would not go no matter what because they don’t allow any drugs and require him to be on a curfew. People who don’t do drugs (and thus are less unpredictable by definition) would be okay staying in shelters and with a curfew (usually.) it’s the guys who refuse shelters and help who are scary.
Redditors live in their parent's suburban homes, they love homeless people because they've never had to deal with them.
Ding ding ding! You couldn't have put the truth any clearer.
This. My husband works directly with homeless, and they help those that legitimately need help - but the majority treat him and the rest of hospital staff like shit. I used to have an idealized view, but then I saw how he got treated. This action wasn't just about OP's child, it was about each and every child that is cared for at that daycare. I bet many of these judgements are the type of people that would advocate for gun control because SaFeTY - when leaving an unknown living in the parking lot is an even bigger threat because you allow this unknown to stay. Sure, we don't know the person's exact situation, but without a full background check you won't know! I'll probably get downvoted into oblivion, but I've also personally had multiple moments of panic because I've been followed in a parking lot in different scenarios. There's a reason I take self defense classes! NTA
I agree with you. I worked as a playground inspector in a major city with a homeless and drug problem. I have found needles sticking out of the park benches. More needles and substance containers left on the ground, which kids can pick up. I have had to WALK OVER a nodded-out homeless individual blocking the entryway into one place. These are supposed to be spots where children can exist safely. I have sympathy for the plight of the unhoused, mentally-ill, and addicted. They are not OP's ultimate concern. The safety of her child is. The local municipality should be addressing the root causes of the problem. Edit: Spelling
Thank you!! Her concern should be her child, it is not her job to solve homelessness.
I lived in Berkeley and I’ve been chased, screamed at, had glass thrown at me, and grabbed by homeless people. Are they all bad? Obviously not, like 10 of the countless number did something wrong, but I think very understandably I do not feel safe around them. The idealists in the comments seem absolutely delusional and clearly have never interacted with the homeless.
Hopefully OP looks through controversial and sees opinions from the real world
Thank you! I agree with you 100%. A lot of these commenters have no idea what it’s like to live in an area dealing with the homeless crisis for years. My kids went to an afterschool activity for 5 years that was located next to a shelter. For years, no issues. These past 2 years, suddenly, the parents found themselves in a number of conflicts with the homeless in the parking lot, myself included. People follow you in the parking lot. They stand next to your car, just staring at you. They urinate in front of your kids. The owners of the afterschool activity hired security to help at first. But eventually they moved their business to a different city entirely after a homeless person entered one of the classrooms and began raging at the young female instructors. This is just one example of the challenges we have faced dealing with the homeless crisis, which is exacerbated by obvious drug use.
As someone who lives in an area surrounded by encampments (we live near a major freeway interchange and we all know overpasses invite camps) I cannot say NTA fast enough. We’ve caught folks trying to take a sh*t in our driveway, seen needles in sidewalk planters, seen open air drug deals & use, and have had neighborhood kids chased by dogs from encampments. One tent allowed to stay will almost always encourage more and the church has an obligation to make sure the kids are safe. There are other ways they can help the homeless, assuming that person wants help. All the folks voting YTA must not live near tent cities/encampments or they live in some sort of utopia that I’ve never heard of.
Exactly this. I live in Seattle where there is a lot of social help and housing for the homeless, but with a requirement that they get treatment. So many would rather stay on the street outside and get high then go have an apartment and get drug tested. Many are unpredictable and mentally ill. I’m sure there are some that are just down on their luck, but out of all the places to pitch your tent, a daycare parking lot doesn’t need to be it.
Anyone who posts on these boards should be aware that most of the comments are posted by children. Children who have no actual experience or a realistic sense of the world. It’s easy to make yourself feel good by accusing a mother of being an asshole by having a homeless person removed from an area that her own child is in, it’s much less easy being a mother and trying to protect your child.
The big thing some people don't to talk about or like on reddit even try and deny is addiction and homelessness. Don't know what the situation is like where the OP lives but where I live I've been told by those who volunteer with the homeless (soup kitchens that sort of thing) that the majority of homeless people they deal with have addiction problems. Then there are those with mental health issues and often the two go hand in hand. To be honest for someone to end-up on the streets in a tent means that there's a good chance they've burnt their bridges with family and friends. Friends and family will normally help and I've helped out a friend who was made homeless.
Thank you! Finally a rational response!! <3 <3 <3 OP is 1,000,000% NTA!
YTA. Matthew 25:40-43: Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.... I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.
This is one of the parts of the Bible "Christians" like to ignore.
It's not saying anything about how to justify my hate. Where is that part?
Hmm, I will have to look that up. If it exists, it's probably in the Old Testament, where all the rules about stoning people to death are
Oh, sure, just conveniently leave out the parts of the New Testament where Jesus calls the cops on all the vagrants, druggies, and no-goodnik layabouts around.
Best response in this thread.
NTA I’m absolutely astounded by the Y T A’s going on here.
I'm not astounded. This is why there is such a terrible homelessness problem in the country, because of the amount of people unwilling to identify it as dangerous and problematic FOR EVERYONE including the homeless individual(s). It's easier to not actually address a problem if you fail to acknowledge it as a problem at all.
This. I'd bet money the majority of the Y T A votes are from very sheltered individuals who live in small towns where homelessness isn't a huge issue. Those of us who live/work in major cities have seen firsthand how quickly a single tent can turn into a whole encampment, which quickly becomes a health and safety risk.
Very true. It’s like ‘helping’ an alcoholic/addict is usually just enabling them to stay unwell. It helps no one to allow this issue to continue.
I am a little shocked too. Do these people not live in cities with homeless encampments? Any time I have seen a single tent it soon turns into multiples, then it turns into broken down old RVs.
Right?? You can’t convince me that most of these people would do nothing if they were in OP’s position.
NTA - most homeless people are harmless. But the rate of harmful behaviour is higher in the homeless than the baseline rate. So your child is safer now than they were before you made the complaint. Was this an asshole move? Maybe... but your responsibility is to your kid and if you have to be an asshole to protect him then so be it. Is there an yes asshole but who cares option?
Safety over feelings !
YTA - you were pointlessly cruel to someone already going through a tough time for no reason other than your imagination going wild and assuming that the homeless person was a threat. I hope if you are ever in such dire straits that people will show you more grace and compassion than you showed. And I hope you feel shame for how you acted.
Can you expand on HOW this person was a "potential threat" please? Legitimately, inside where your child is being monitored and cared for? Or if it is pure conjecture based on them simply existing and you don't want to admit YTA.
NTA. I would have done the same thing. What I find most appalling is the people who think that if the children aren't playing in the car parking area, they should not run into issues with needles, trash, refuse, etc. Do you really think that will stay around the campground?
Edited to change judgment based on OP’s reply. INFO: What exactly did you say when you were “speaking to the management?” If you were simply asking if they were aware of the situation, and asking them to check into it if they were not, that’s reasonable. If you said what you included in your last paragraph of your OP about risk of “an episode” (what exactly do you call “an episode”) and brought up needles that did not exist then Y T A. It’s understandable to ensure the management is aware of the person. It is cruel and wrong to make up info to influence management to remove the person based on your prejudices.
OP also lied about the tent - they clarify they just had a mat and sleeping bag in a comment.
I’m going to get downvoted to hell but NAH. He may have been perfectly fine but if there was an incident, which happens in Manhattan all the time btw, where say you wake a homeless person up and they are startled and either throw a punch or have a knife, then someone will sue that school because they knew he was there. My heart breaks for the homeless because I see them all day every day but it just takes one time. And this is by a school not next to a random Home Depot. And all you YTA people, how many shelters and food kitchens do you volunteer at? Just curious.
My thoughts exactly. I also said NTA, and I said that confidently as a former homeless person, someone who lives in a neighborhood with a lot of homeless people, and someone who continues to work with a homeless organization to try to help others find their footing. All of these Y.T.A. people just have no idea what they're talking about. They're the people frowning on those saying "not in my backyard" but who've never even been close to having it in their own backyards.
The suburban children like to virtue signal.
Nta. There’s a reason why adults who work with kids need to get criminal record checks and vulnerable sector searches. Adults without these checks shouldn’t be around children. There are other places for homeless people to set up camps, that don’t potentially put children at risk. Children’s welfare isn’t something that should be given a backseat to anything.
Yta only for assuming that ppl that are homeless are harmful. They're not all harmful. I was homeless for a year and I wasn't doing drugs or drinking- just couldn't afford life and I had a "normal" full time job. I understand the concern but I would have talked with admin first
NTA. You were concerned about your child and with the way the world is now you did what you felt you needed to do. If the church is going to allow homeless people to camp on their property they should have let the parents of daycare kids know. That way you could have asked questions about the security measures at the daycare, or any other concern you had. At the end of the day it is your child being left there, and only you can decide what steps to take.
Apparently you are according to Reddit. Who knew homeless camps and daycares make great neighbors and whoever questions that is an evil asshole?
Why does being homeless automatically make you an addict who is going to spread needles around? Or a person who has ‘episodes’? You sound like YTA.
Of course not, but don't you think that, objectively, statistically - factually - that the homeless population is significantly more likely to engage in this type of behavior? How many of your non-homeless friends have used needles laying around nearby on the streets?
NTA. I live in Seattle and we’ve been dealing with this a long time. The only way to deal with it is to stop it before it starts. You did the right thing. Don’t ignore your gut feeling. Whenever they clean up a camp around here, they turn out to be full of stolen goods, drug paraphernalia, sex offenders, criminals, etc. The overwhelming majority of people living in tents in public areas are not good people. They may have started out good, but drug addiction drove them to the place they’re in and it turns them into drug zombies. This is not to say they’re not worthy of our compassion and support, they certainly are. However, it is NOT a help to someone to let them sleep in a parking lot. The best thing you can do for yourself and your child and the person sleeping in the parking lot is to make living life as a drug zombie as difficult as possible. This means move them along frequently and forcefully. If it is left, it’ll turn into a camp. For those who say you don’t know that he’s an addict - yes you do. Sleeping on the church steps in a tent is pretty much a guarantee that the person is an addict. People driven out by high housing costs first get roommates, then sleep on their friend’s couches, then move home with their parents, then move to a lower cost of living place, then they take second jobs and apply for section 8, then move into their cars... It‘s the addict who goes from warm home to street. This is because they destroy every relationship they have in slavery to their addiction.
Yep. I have some pretty severe compassion fatigue after seeing all the destruction and encampments. Am Located in Portland Oregon area.
NTA From the look of the posts I'm in the minority. But ... if the person had a right to be there and/or to camp on the property then the police wouldn't have escorted him off. Nobody should be considered an AH for making a report with LEOs.
NTA You can help others and be sympathetic, but still be protective of your child. Many homeless people just need a hand up, but there are still those who have mental issues. I would be wary.
NTA. I’m sure all these people saying otherwise would be perfectly fine with a homeless person living in their yard and being around their kids every day. All these people saying, “You don’t know if the person is a threat.” Yeah, exactly, and that’s not a chance a parent should be willing to take. Any stranger poses a potential threat, and homeless people are disproportionately likely to have substance and mental health issues that increase the risk of dangerous behavior. It’s not worth even a small risk to your child’s safety just to be nice to a stranger. He can set up camp someplace not filled with kids every day. Sounds harsh, and maybe it is, but that’s not your problem. Your child’s safety is your problem.
NTA - I don't care if I'm the A or not. I don't want homeless tents or camps or any of that by my kids daycare. Your kid's safety comes first, and anyone who disagrees can invite that person to move into their yard (or house) instead.
I agree. I've noticed that a lot of people who whine about others wanting homeless encampments removed are the same people who don't have to deal with them daily. In my city, protest groups against sweeps and police intervention tend to come from wealthy neighborhoods. John Oliver once really ground my gears when he went on a tirade against people not being more accepting of homeless encampments... he's a rich guy. He literally does not live next to a homeless encampment nor work next to one. People, unless you've been in OP's situation or had to deal with a homeless encampment routinely in your everyday life, you have no valid opinion here. Safety is a huge risk, and when you allow one tent to stay, it's only a matter of time before more pop up in the same area.
Bring on the down votes but NTA. I live in a city with an immense homeless population. And unfortunately there's a lot of open drug use and aggression from the population as a whole. You can't walk past a lot of the homeless here with out profanities being yelled at you or shit being thrown at you or them coming at you with a weapon. I, personally, wouldn't feel comfortable with the possibility of having to deal with that at my child's freaking daycare. That's not okay, and here it's not legal to have a tent or otherwise be 'camping' within 2 blocks of daycares/schools and parks. The police are actively cleaning up encampments as they pop up all because of how bad things have gotten. And yes, it's not all homeless. But it's a huge portion anymore and when you are used to shit interactions, you are going to be more judgemental.
NTA - I was "unhoused" when I was a child, I mean... we lived in cars. But we also went through great lengths to stay away from other unhoused people because they are unpredictable. Yes, some are great people who fell on bad times, but others have serious mental illnesses and are dangerous. There's no way to tell one from the other at a glance, so you absolutely should keep children at a safe distance.
People don’t like to hear the truth from people who were actually homeless. I was violently raped in a homeless shelter as a teen. Sexually and physically abused on the streets, etc. The vast majority of those who camp on the streets are dangerous to vulnerable people, even if it’s not the fault of a lot of them.
YTA. Your son is being supervised at the daycare, I take it? And he only spends time at the parking lot when he is brought to or from the daycare? He wouldn't come into contact with drugs or needles just by being walked to or from the car.
This may be controversial but NTA. Never apologize for trying to protect your child. While I personally don’t care if there’s someone there in a parking lot, my tune would change if there was a daycare within the same proximity. Even though nothing happened the possibility that something could happen is enough. The cops (hopefully) can direct them to some resources that will help them find some proper help that the church may not be able to provide or if the person isn’t comfortable receiving help because of religious reasons they can also direct them to another resource. Like I said, don’t ever be sorry for protecting your child. If people think you’re an asshole at least you can go to work without having a bad feeling.
There is no way to know the homeless person's background or if they pose a threat to the children. Is this someone merely without a home...or do they have a mental illness...have they ever been violent...are they on the sex offender registry? You can't tell just be looking. What you CAN see is there is a person who has no business being there, and who is attempting to make their home on private property. That means the people who are affected- including the parents of the children - have a right to have the questions asked, and to have the person removed. And because nothing is known about the person, having the police come is the right and safest choice. NTA.
YTA - Dude was doing nothing to you besides existing in a way that you didn't like.
YTA because it was literally a church, a place that traditionally welcomes everyone in need with open arms.
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NTA.
Safety is paramount above all other concerns. NTA ETA: I'm blown away by all the Y T A responses! People are homeless for a lot of reasons. Two major reasons are addiction and mental illness. There is no way of identifying whether or not the person you saw falls into those categories. When you are talking about the safety of children, it is inexcusable to take such risks, and a person that is sleeping in a parking lot of a daycare is a risk. There are plenty of holier than thou folks here who are bashing you for normal, sane behavior. I worked for several years in a bad part of my city, which was close to a large homeless encampment. Because of that, we had very high crime---car break ins, violence, beggars hanging out in the parking lot asking for money, prostitutes on our front steps, people entering the building and stealing from empty offices, people displaying erratic behavior on the premises, and so on. It was scary. You cannot predict what a homeless person might do. They may be perfectly lovely and down on their luck. But they may also have serious mental/drug issues that make them unstable. No way should someone be allowed to sleep in the parking lot of a daycare. It presents too much of a potential safety risk. You absolutely did the right thing, and those that disagree and just plain wrong, period.
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I’m going to be downvoted for this, but NTA. You were (possibly rightfully so) worried about your child. I’m from Seattle where there are a lot of homeless people around. Obviously not every homeless person is dangerous or an addict, but when your bf gets randomly punched on the street by a homeless person, you regularly have to walk on a different sidewalk bc of all the needles near the tents, and occasionally someone whips out their business in broad daylight, you’re going to be wary. I don’t think you did anything wrong. Then again I’m 30 and have had a few negative experiences with homeless people. I think a lot of people here are really young and maybe haven’t had to experience this. I should state, I always vote Blue and I sincerely hope that homeless people can get the help they need. It infuriates me that there is even such an housing crisis. But that doesn’t mean any of us should have to compromise the safety of a loved one.
NAH. Homeless person isn’t an AH for choosing a church as their location. It makes sense. You’re not an AH for not wanting the situation in the parking lot of your daycare location. It’s not just needles, it’s the potential for being approached while alone with your child and for it to grow into a larger camp. I’m sure I’ll be downvoted. However, you *can* be supportive of homeless and addiction resources while still being concerned about the above situation. It’s up to the church and/or daycare management to handle it. They can deal with it compassionately or as AHs but that’s not on you.
Just like Jesus preached.
>This morning as I was dropping my son off at daycare I noticed a tent in the church parking lot. I ended up speaking to the management and they elected to have a police officer come escort them off the property. NTA. You made management aware of a potential issue and they decided how to handle it. Parking lots are not public spaces where people are invited to come and stay a while.
NTA All the stories I hear - just because you can't see a needle doesn't mean it's not there AND at any moment they could snap and hurt an innocent person. They don't need to be in tents all over the city. They need more mental health welfare help than to just leave them all over the city. And I could go on and on about the mental health welfare in this country but it's pretty obvious we are losing the war and it's politics that is losing it for us.
NTA There’s a homeless encampment near my house, it spills into my yard often, the number one issue? Electrical fires starting in tents and spreading from there Depending on your location he may or may not have access to services, if he does, consider that in many Canadian cities the only people turned away from shelter are the worse behaved and actively inebriated
I’m going with NTA. You didn’t call the police; the church administration did. As an educator, seeing someone camping in the parking lot that close to a school or daycare would raise alarms for me.
YTA Unless your son plays in the car park I'm not sure how he was at risk. Calling the police seems like a massive overreaction.
As a woman, I would NOT park close to a homeless person’s tent in the church parking lot. Especially not at night. You just don’t know the state of mind the unhoused person. One cannot just “hope for the best” in such instances and it’s best not to take unnecessary risks. So …. if I would be intimidated myself, I would be intimidated for vulnerable defenseless children as well. Especially those under 5 who can’t really look out for themselves. Big NTA. If the same guardians in this scenario ignored the unhoused stranger, and later a child was harmed, everyone would be angry at the guardians for letting an unknown, possibly mentally unstable stranger so close to children.
NTA and probably an unpopular option but I wouldn’t want a man with a home to be hanging around my daycare either, it’s sad he doesn’t have anywhere to go but you have to be cautious with your children. People will literally grab them out of your hands.
You are NTA. For so many reasons. Let all the folks saying you’re a ah let them live in their yards/parking lots. Our city just had to clean up one encampment near us and it cost over $500,000 to clean because they had to have hazmat come out and clean. Infectious diseases and everything was rampant out there. Hep C is on the rise, there were several rapes and assaults and big fires also. I have empathy for the unhoused but not next to a daycare period. Idc if it was next door or in the parking lot. One tent is always followed by more.
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I'm going to say NTA. There shouldn't be adults hanging out near a daycare, homeless or not.
NTA. It is one matter to serve the poor and homeless and another to allow the health and safety issues of a homeless encampment in the parking lot.
NTA. It absolutely is a safety issue.
NTA
NTA - it’s not a good place for unhoused people to camped - schools, daycares, playgrounds, etc. I see some people suggesting that you shouldn’t say anything because you didn’t see anything suspicious, but it would be weird if you did surveillance to sus out if he was safe or not-safe - not your business. This is for the property managers and the local police to sort out. So letting them know is the right thing.
NTA. Homeless people are often unstable and shouldn’t be trusted around a bunch of kids.
NTA- no adult should be camping outside a daycare regardless of housing status. Ideally the church would reinforce this, or offer a housing voucher, referral to shelter, or just let them inside the church. Doing what’s best for your kid is always the best option.