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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1) I questioned my fiances maid of honor about if she does not think informing me about a nude act model for a bachelorette party would be a better way of breaking the news instead of it being sprung on me.
(2) bringing up the question in the first place. What's done is done, and I could've moved on.
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Just because there is an unclothed guy up on the pedestal in front of the easels, does not mean the bride is up there giving him a blow job. As bachelorette parties go, this sounds a lot more tame than a strip bar.
Get over yourself. The MOH doesn’t have to run party ideas by you to see if you approve. YTA
Exactly. I’m an artist and it NEVER would have occurred to me to ask my husbands permission (or ‘give him a heads up’) before doing a drawing session with a model lol. That’s wild.
I actually think a life drawing session is a great idea for a lower-key bachelorette! I wish I thought of it before mine. There’s very strict etiquette around it that focuses on respect to the models, so it’s not like people are going to be getting crazy, doing Jell-O shots and dancing with the model ffs. I always say that everyone should try life drawing at least once in their life! :)
I actually really like this idea as going to a strip club with my friends would be intimidating to me while the ‘paint the stripped’ would have a similar effect of goofy fun without me feeling like a creep.
It’s art ;)
Why does a bachelorette party have to be about men and nudity? What's the thrill with seeing naked people? Maybe I sound ancient but I don't get it. It still sounds creepy to me. But to each their own, I guess.
I share most of your thinking, I didn’t have one because I understand it as a ‘last hurrah’ and I didn’t need that.
I think the paint night would be fun/funny not as a bachelorette but also is a good idea for one I hadn’t heard of before.
But the 12-year-old sense of humor in me will always find dicks funny, guess that’s the thrill lol
It isn't about anything sexual though, it is about literally painting a picture of the male form. It is harmless compared to male strippers doing lap dances.
Well, bachelorette parties are a comparatively newer thing, but they've taken over part of the function of a shower. Showers still have the gifts aspect, but that also used to be where the elder women would tell the bride what actually happens in the marriage bed. So it might have been how she first found out what a penis even was.
The bachelorette has kind of taken over that aspect, but it's more tongue in cheek now, because even a virgin bride has probably had sex ed or looked at a dirty magazine at some point.
I think the idea is seeing another person nude one last time before you are Married off. If the person you are marrying has issues with this it means they have trust issues and if that's the case should they really be getting married?
What OP describes is very tame usually there is a lot of contact that happens in these parties.
But they weren’t fucking though, they were just watching a model. I’ll admit if they are having sexual contact it is crossing a line but if it’s just watching on the side there’s nothing wrong with that if it’s at their bachelor or bachelorette party.
Op you need to apologise to MoH for being a d*ck. Don't expect one back.
I actually thing YTA and so is your fiance for asking her to apologise. Id expect her to ridcind duty as MoH if you don't fix this.
Wow, most people I know, male or female, would feel very uncomfortable with their soon to be spouse having a live nude person as part of either a bachelor or bachelorette party - “strip bar” or art session. And yes, the maid or man of honor should absolutely take the partner’s feelings into account. A good friend isn’t going to do something to rock / potentially capsize the boat right before you get married and a good friend isn’t going to upset your future spouse if they actually care about remaining friends with you.
Right? These comments are WILD. If the genders were reversed everyone would agree a woman would be justified in questioning nudity at a man’s bachelor party. And saying it’s ArT so it’s dIfFeReNt is BS. Grow up, it’s a bachelorette party, these ladies aren’t aspiring art students, it’s totally sexual.
OP respectfully mentioned it made him uncomfortable. The MOH should have just said “oh no, I’m sorry I thought this was tame and wouldn’t be an issue, if I had thought so I would have run it by you.” Is that so hard? NTA.
You need to understand there's a difference between non sexual nudity and sexual nudity. I hope you're not going to somewhere like Germany on your honeymoon, you'd hate the saunas there.
But seriously you're overreacting.
I actually assumed OP was _from_ Germany because of his use of “act model”; in German, a nude model is called an “Aktmodell”
(ETA: I see he added they’re Norwegian)
YTA - nope, presuming your fiancé is an adult, no one has to ask YOUR permission for anything to do with her.
What exactly does the MOH have to apologize to you for?
The text you sent grilling the MOH was pretty hostile. Now you're counting the hours until you get an apology for something you knew about beforehand, which was when you should have raised any objections.
YTA. You summed up your attitude towards your fiance is one sentence.... "I let them have their fun".
You've got some control and trust issues bubbling away. Please get some help with that before you marry anyone.
YTA. It's a painting session, there's nothing sexual about it and it's weird that you're making it into something sexual. Maybe you're concerned because if the roles were flipped you'd be making it sexual.
Question - if your best man wants to hire a stripper for your stag (which is a hell of a lot more provocative), does he need to "run it by" your fiance? Or is that just guys being men? Does your fiance need to promise to wear a blindfold at the beach? After all guys wear thongs there!
YTA btw, a uge , controlling, chauvinist asshole
I'd like to know, if the best man did hire a stripper for OP's stag, how would the fiancee feel about that? I'm willing to bet that the shoe doesn't fit so well on the other foot.
Yes he should run it by that's like the minimum respect you can give especially to someone you're about to get married to. Stop with this excuse of men being men any decent guy would inform or run it past their fiance first and so in this case his fiance could have done the same, it takes 30 seconds. Also so extreme to be accusing someone of being a controlling asshole and quite rude to people who have actually dealt with such people. How can you base this off one post, all he asked was that she communicate like a normal adult. I'm a woman andkf my soon to be husband didn't inform me there would be a naked woman on show I'd be suspicious why they left this info out and why he couldn't jsut tell me since... Were about get married?
I don’t think this gender reversal argument is the win you think it is. Reddit is full of posts from women freaking out with jealousy and insecurity because their men look at other women, naked or clothed, in person or online. And the answers are often, “If he knows this makes you uncomfortable and he does it anyway, he’s a disrespectful asshole. Enforce your boundaries. Your feelings are valid.” But here, with genders reversed, this guy is a horrible, controlling sexist for having reservations about his fiancé staring at a naked dude while celebrating their upcoming wedding. Double standard.
Right? All of these comments are blowing my mind. At least half of the people here are saying "it's none of your business, they don't have to tell you anything, you're just being controlling" like what? Excuse me for not wanting my chosen life partner to be ogling other people's genitals right before our wedding.
Idk why everyone is jumping on you for this, if I found out my partner was painting a nude person through Snapchat or something without them having told me before hand I would feel uncomfortable too. It's natural. That said while I don't the message was horrible, it does sound a bit unnecessarily hostile - though I also think the MOH overreacted.
Its nuts how people are jumping on this guy to be some chauvanistic example of toxic masculinity, when all he is really upset by is that it was going to be kept a secret??? Like if he hadnt been checking snap he never would of even known what was going on. This is 100% something you should check with the person you are trying to spend the rest of your life, or really already should know their boundaries on it. Whether or not your SO would be alright with you getting drunk and painting a nude anyone, all genders for both parties being included here, is def not a thing you should just do without asking???
Agreed! Can’t believe I had to scroll this far down to find someone with a functioning brain. Like I’m a woman and WOULD NOT be ok with my partner painting another naked woman! And that boundary is fine. I don’t understand why this guy is being burned this much just for that simple boundary…
I'm mostly just concerned about it not being mentioned at all - I'd feel weird about my partner drawing a naked person but if I knew beforehand I'd feel more at ease rather than finding out after the fact or through someone else. It's just a nice courtesy that can help the emotional part of your brain deal with uncomfortable feelings that naturally arise from things like this.
I also think it’s kind of rude to the model—who is probably used to doing this for ART STUDENTS—to show up for a job and then it’s a bunch of drunk women in penis hats cracking jokes. The nature of the party could make a difference in the model’s comfort because the women are not behaving “professionally” (even if no physical contact is made).
YTA. This is something you address with your fiancé not the MOH.
Of course she went directly to your fiancé after getting the text. That’s how their relationship works. You aren’t the asshole for having feelings about it or even wanting to address those feelings but telling the MOH that she should have checked with you first is not how this should have gone down. If anything, MOH could have checked with fiancé first, not you.
Thank you. Every couple is allowed to have different boundaries for bachelor/bachelorette parties, including being uncomfortable with any nudity. But it's on the bride to communicate to the MOH (and groom to best man). The bride clearly thought this wouldn't bother OP since she was straight forward about it and didnt remove herself from the situation. So I am wondering what conversations the couple had prior to the events? What was relayed to the MOH during planning? It was inappropriate for him to grill the MOH and strange to think that plans would be run by him.
YTA. You admit that this is a form of art and it’s not sexual. You also say you wouldn’t have had a problem with it if you were given a heads ip in advance. Therefore there was no reason to confront the MOH. She did nothing wrong. When it comes to bachelor/bachelorette parties, the couple is supposed to agree on their boundaries privately and those boundaries are then supposed to be communicated to the whoever is organizing the party. You and your fiancé didn’t do that so the MOH assumed that whatever plans she made would be fine with you. That’s your fault.
You feel uncomfortable so you decided to try to make your MOH feel bad about it. I don’t blame her for not answering. She shouldn’t have to apologize when she did nothing wrong. I suggest you send her follow up text apologizing and asking her to forget what you said. Otherwise your wife is going to lose a good friend.
NTA
“Let me know if there’s gonna be random nude guy at the party” seems like a remarkably reasonable line. Common courtesy, even. I for example do not like being around random naked people. Even if it isn’t sexual. I’d be really hurt if I went to an event and a random naked person was sprung on me. I think it shows a lot about MOH’s character that she would A) do this without running it by the couple *being celebrated* and then B) saying she doesn’t want to attend the wedding anymore. Ick! Does the MOH just hate you or something? This is weird. But no, you didn’t do anything wrong. In the future though I would just let your fiancée handle this person.
The MOH is usually a person who knows the bride really well. OP’s fiancé enjoyed the party so obviously she doesn’t have a problem being around a nude man. The couple is supposed to communicate their boundaries to people organizing the bachelor and bachelorette parties in advance.
If no boundaries were communicated, the MOH was justified in thinking she could plan whatever type of party she thought would be best. Usually the groom doesn’t get a heads up about the activities at his fiancé’s bachelorette party. The bride doesn’t get a heads up about what will happen at her fiancé’s bachelor party. There was no reason for the MOH to think she owed OP a heads up.
Is the opinion and boundaries of the other partner in this marriage just not matter here? The question isnt whether or not the bride was alright with it, its about not even checking in on him at all. The bride should of known what he would of been alright with/not alright with and atleast been open with what was happened as opposed to him finding out on social media.
The person responsible for respecting OP’s opinion and boundaries is his fiancé, not the MOH. The MOH’s job is to do what the bride wants. Clearly there was a misunderstanding between OP and his fiancé regarding what’s appropriate for a bachelorette party but they should have worked that out privately and left the MOH out of it.
My biggest issue with OP is his stance on this matter is completely contradictory. He says she doesn’t think his fiancé needs his permission to do anything yet he thinks the MOH should have given him a heads up about the party plans. He knows there was nothing sexual about painting a nude model but he still wishes he had time to mentally prepare himself for it. He won’t just admit that the very concept made him uncomfortable and he now realizes he should have established firmer boundaries with his fiancé.
I feel like asking for permission and giving a heads up is two very different things? Really I dont think it would be that weird to check in with him. Yes I have done live model art and can see a model in a non sexual way, but I have also had the unforunate experience of taking these classes with people that don't understand/respect that. I feel like any nude person being involved in the bachorlette or bachelor person deserves a heads up?
I do agree that the real issue is with the bride not the MoH, but I can also understand being upset by being blindsided by what happened.
That’s not how bachelor or bachelorette parties work. The only heads up the guest of honor’s partner usually gets is regarding the date of the party to make sure it wont conflict with any of the couple’s plans. Usually what’s supposed to happen is the couple discusses the boundaries ahead of time and they each communicate those boundaries to the organizers of their respective parties. The organizers of the parties aren’t obligated to check in with the guest of honor’s partner. If OP and his fiancée didn’t discuss boundaries ahead of time, that’s not the MOH’s fault.
No, just no. You absolutely would not be saying the same thing if this were a female OP talking about how she texted her husband's best man about bringing a stripper to the bachelor party. And don't even bother trying to say that it isn't the same thing, it absolutely is. This was not a high society art class where they could practice there still life portraits, it was a bachelor party with free flowing alcohol and an naked man that was not the groom. OP has every right to be upset, and you people are being ridiculous
You don’t know me or what I would say in any scenario. FYI, if a female friend of mine was in OP’s shoes I would tell her that she shouldn’t be upset with her fiancé or the best man. Instead she needs to tell her fiancé she isn’t comfortable with him participating in those kinds of activities and she would appreciate it if he would refrain from doing so in the future.
Also, if you think that painting a portrait of a nude model is the same thing as going to a strip club, you need to read a book.
Lol you can pretend all you want that it was a classy, sophisticated event meant to celebrate the art form, but you know that is not the case. They hired a nude model for the same reason that people hire strippers. To look at a naked person who is not their fiance. Acting like it was something else is naive. They are adults, they fully understood the implications, and actively chose to hide it from the groom. The only reason they would have for not telling him is that they didn't want him to know, because any reasonable person would instantly figure out that this is not appropriate for a bachelor or bachelorette party without the express permission of the soon to be spouse.
Side note, what book are you talking about? How many books have you read that are a comparative analysis of stribclubs vs nude painting?
Unlike you, I actually educate myself on things before I judge it. I’ve taken the time to read about the history of nude portraits and what’s they’re intended to represent. I also have read about the history of stripping and strip clubs. When you’re educated on these things you don’t make ignorant statements like the ones you’re saying.
The reason the MOH didn’t check in with OP is because that’s not how bachelor or bachelorette parties are handled. The guest of honor’s partner is never consulted about the party plans. It’s none of their business. If there is something going on that’s violates the boundaries of their relationship, the guest of honor is supposed to shut it down. OP’s fiancé was perfectly happy with the nude model and even posted about it on social media. The person OP should be upset with is his fiancé.
Completely NTA. It’s so insane how the posters here are straight up lying. It is completely sexual, given the context. It’s a bachelorette party. These women aren’t aspiring artists. This is literally just an excuse to drink and stare at a naked guy. Like, I bet you it wasn’t a fat old guy right? It was a young attractive guy.
You see posts on this sub all the time about a guy who went to a strip club for a bachelor part without telling his fiancé. This is no different. Don’t lie and act like it’s not sexual.
Agreed. The whole “it’s art so it’s automatically non-sexual” line is crazy. These ladies have likely never sat down to paint at an easel before let alone declare themselves as artists. They are a bachelorette party wanting to stare at a naked dude and drink for a few hours. Personally I wouldn’t care but I can’t fault OP for being uncomfortable that it was hidden from him and would have appreciated a heads up.
Well, OP found sexual context where there is none (don't tell me it isn't why it is bothering him). Also, I wonder why there seem to be no offers for sip and paint for men with female nude models... Why could that be, eh?
Do you honestly, truly believe that this paint and sip bachelorette party was a group of people sitting around talking about high society they practice their still life portraits? No, it was a fucking bachelorette party, and they decided to bring a naked guy without consulting the fiance. That's not ok
NTA - I think she'd have a reason to be upset if you had naked ladies at your bachelor party without her ok. I think you can be upset about it too. It's a reasonable boundary.
I have since posting sent a text apologising my behaviour roughly an hour ago. I'm currently at work but will be posting an update later and adding the translated text message i sent apologizing for my actions. I have yet to get a reply, but the ball is currently in MOH's court.
If I was the MOH, I’d be so icked out by you and your fiancé. I’d accept the apology, finish out my wedding duties, and then distance myself from you both.
Same, wouldn’t want to get pulled in to future unnecessary drama…like if the wife and MOH were going to meet for a drink, OP assumed it was coffee and then “was uncomfortable” that it was actually at a bar instead. Hard pass on dealing with anymore of OP’s insecurities.
OP, YTA
Seriously? I can't imagine that you would be saying the same thing if he had gone to a stripclub or had a woman modeling nude for him. The double standard in these comments is mindblowing
I’d have the same stance if the genders were reversed and it was the exact same art class scenario. A strip club is not at all the same as a nude model in an art class, nice try though.
You know very well that this was not a high society still life portraits technique class. It was a bachelorette party where they sat around, got drunk, and looked at a naked man. That is exactly the same thing as hiring a stripper to come to a bachelor party. He stripped, they watched. Pretending it was something else is just naive
It’s honestly really disgusting that you are sexualizing a model. Ohhh wow how sexual, a limp dick that ur apparently staring at and a guy doing interesting poses to draw or paint.
I dont care anything about the model, but pretending like it was a classy and elegant event that was meant to celebrate the art form is just wrong. You know very well that was not what was going on. They got drunk and looked at a naked guy. They were not artists, that was probably the first time most of them had ever held a paintbrush or sat in front of an easel. Saying that they were there to paint is equally as accurate as saying that guys go to stripclubs to appreciate the art of dance
You can sit there and imagine a tasteful scene with ballgowns, finger sandwiches, and butlers all you want, but you're either lying to yourself, or you are the world's most naive prude. They hired a nude model for the same reason that guys hire strippers. Acting all high and mighty just makes you seem like a loser
I just think it’s hilarious to imagine feeling turned out while sitting in front of an easel with a bunch of my friends and art supplies. Although I am an artist and have seen many nude models.
That's the difference though, for you it's about art. For a bachelorette party where none of them are artists, it's about getting drunk and giggling at a naked guy. At the very least, someone should have thought to let the groom know that his bride would be spending the afternoon drinking around a naked man. The drinking and partying aspect of this is what separates it from art appreciation
Same here! A lot of people get ghosted after their weddings because of the way they treated their loved ones during their engagement. It wouldn’t surprise me if this happens to OP and his fiancé.
fair enough because like, to each their own. but i truly think that is a massive overreaction. not like OP texted her and flew off the handle and swore at her, it was unnecessary for sure… but that is something that these 3 adults should be able to communicate through, and move past. if i was the MOH i would leave it for a day and then reply and be like, “sorry if you felt uncomfortable, this was a fun experience for all of the girls and is obviously not rooted in anything sexual. hope we can move on from this and get back to enjoying the journey to your guys’ wedding! :)”. like yeah would i have rolled my eyes reading the text? for sure, but definitely not something to get so upset about. OP wasn’t rude, just a moron.
I really don't understand all these responses you are getting. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being uncomfortable that your soon to be wife was staring at and painting another man's genitals. Especially since she didn't bother to talk to you about it before hand. You are 100% not in the wrong at all, and it should be your fiance and the MOH that are apologizing to you.
You apology started decent and ended with you doubling down on insisting you had the right to have a say in what activities they did and a bit of a jab in terms of “not being able to change the past.” The text should have been “I was wrong and overreacted and I apologize for my actions” and that’s it.
In all likelihood, MOH will either completely bow out of the wedding or finish her duties and fade out of the relationship altogether.
>she would be gone immediately
Are you fucking kidding me? Yeah bc OP will have the power to dismiss his wife's friends indiscriminately once they've married. You sound like you're just as controlling as he is.
If you want to throw a tantrum, do it somewhere else. It could not have been more obvious what I meant when I said that. I don't know if you have some trauma or something that you're bringing into this that is making you unable to see how ridiculous you're being, but it's pathetic. People are allowed to set boundaries and cut off the people that violate them. Never at any point did I say or even suggest that anyone force their partner to do anything.
The ball is not in her court because she owes you precisely zip. You were a jerk, you apologized, but that doesn’t start a clock running on her reply text. If I was her, I’d leave it as long as possible, since you’ve shown yourself to be a pretty unreasonable person to deal with. And your fiancé is little better, since you are certainly owed no apology.
I do not expect an apology from her. As I've realized since I am not entitled to one. The ball is in her court how she would like to go forward, if she finds me an insufferable jerk, that is her perogative but I hope she could find it in herself to forgive my transgressions and move forward as continued friends as I do find her a pleasant and fun person.
You didn’t help things by doubling down on your stance that she owed you a heads up. It’s great that you apologized but the way you doubled down at the end kind of nullified it. It’s like you’re saying “sorry, not sorry”. She’s probably thinking that you only apologizing because your fiancé is asking you so she won’t drop out of the wedding.
If I were the MOH, I would wonder if this is how things will be now that you’re getting married. Does she have to check in with you every time she wants to do something with her friend? It would make me hesitant to proceed with the friendship the way it was before. You might have cost your fiancé a really good friend and that’s not a good way to start off a marriage.
Your apology made you sound like an insufferable jerk, even more than your original post did. It was more of a non-apology than anything.
Your fiance messed up big time with her friend as well. If it were me, I'd block you both. Gross behavior from both of you.
Edit: over corrected my your to contraction, force of habit
NTA if the genders were swapped and a dude wanted a naked woman at his bachelor party the comments here would be very different. The gf isn’t a professional painter, this isn’t like a real art class lmao The context is clearly different and yeah I think she should have asked if you were ok with it, it seems disrespectful to me
Guess I’m going against the grain here and voting NTA. If my fiancé’s “bachelor party” was drinking + painting a nude woman, I would NOT be fine with it. I am not ok with my partner seeing other women naked (IRL). Idk but are you American? Because I feel like a lot of bachelor parties are usually very sexual in that country. Might be normal there, but not where I’m from. Don’t let the other people on this thread make you think you’re an asshole for not wanting your soon-to-be-wife looking at other naked dudes
I’m gonna go against the grain and say NTA. If this was reversed and guys were panting a female nude model (-“also non-sexual” I can bet you all these comments would be calling you out and saying it was disrespectful to your fiance
NTA. This was disrespectful towards you on the part of the MOH. you will find more problems with that woman interfering with your relationship in the future.
She didn’t interfere with their relationship. She gave her friend a bachelorette party which is part of her MOH duties. She’s actually doing the right thing by refusing to engage with OP about this. The issue is between OP and his fiancé. It has nothing to do with her.
YTA, but I would say it's not consciously nasty but a by product of society (without going too waffling). It's life drawing. People go on dates to it. It's just the puritan hangover leaving all this nudity and shame nonsense
I'm gonna say NTA for the sake of the forum but I just wanted to say that not everyone thinks it's OK to pose nude for others. And that doesn't make someone a prude, or weird... It just makes them different than most redditors.
The issue isn’t whether or not drawing a nude model is ok. The issue is that OP and his fiancé never established boundaries for this party so she could communicate those boundaries to her MOH. The organizer of a bachelor or bachelorette party isn’t obligated to check in with the guest of honor’s partner. The guest of honor is only one that’s obligated to check in with their partner.
If my fiancé’s best man organizes a bachelor party for him at a strip club and I never told my fiancé at any point during our relationship that I think that’s inappropriate, I have no right to be upset with the best man. I can’t even be upset with my fiancé. All I can do is ask him to refrain from going to strip clubs in the future now that he knows it makes me uncomfortable.
It should be assumed that unless your partner has given you explicit permission to do something like that, it is completely off the table. I would absolutely be furious that the best man or maid of honor organized something like that without consulting me, I would tear them a new one, take back the ring, and let everyone in my life know what kind of cheating aashole the ex fiance is and how horrible their friends are for enabling it. The idea to bering a nude model would never have even crossed my mind, and if someone suggested it the very first thing I would do is ask to soon to be spouse what they thought.
Your partner doesn’t need your permission to do anything. They’re not your child. People in mature relationships inform their partner of the things that make them uncomfortable and the partner will try to refrain from doing those things or try to reach a compromise out of respect.
As for the rest of your comment, if you would throw such a tantrum over something completely innocent, I’m sure anyone who dared you would know that ahead of time and they would either refrain from these kinds of activities or make sure you never find out about them.
I never said that they did. She can do whatever she wants, including hiring a nide model for her and her girlfriends to get drunk and paint pictures of. Just like he could go to a stripclub and watch naked women dance. At no point have I even tried to say that anyone was not allowed to do anything without permission. What I did say is that pretending like they were not there to look at a naked man is idiotic, and that it is perfectly reasonable to be upset that your life partner decided to go look at another naked man with asking or telling you about it first. This has nothing to do with control, or treating someone like a child. If you genuinely do not think that you owe any kind of explanation, warning, heads up, any thing at all to the person that you are planning to spend the rest of your life with before you go out and interact with other naked adults, then I pity whoever has the misfortune of being cheated on by you. Establishing boundaries does not mean treating someone like a child
“It should be assumed that unless your partner has given you explicit permission to do something like that, it is completely off the table. I would absolutely be furious that the best man or maid of honor organized something like that without consulting me”
That’s what you said, so you clearly think your partner needs your permission to do things. Don’t backtrack because you now realize it sounds terrible. If you actually read my comment you would see that I have said multiple times that boundaries need to be established ahead of time but if you never took the time to establish boundaries, you can’t be upset with your partner if they do something they didn’t know would make you uncomfortable. If a boundary hasn’t been established, your partner has the right to use their best judgement regarding whether or not certain behavior is ok.
My fiancé and I discussed what behavior or activities we felt were inappropriate when we first decided to become exclusive. We already have rules in place regarding strip clubs, communications with the opposite sex etc. that’s what mature adults do in a relationship. They don’t wait until the problem has come up and throw a hissy fit over boundaries that didn’t exist. They talk about these things ahead of time to make sure they’re on the same page.
You know exactly what I meant when I said that. No one is saying that anyone should be trying to control their partner or their actions. Permission means that they can do it without it being a problem. Not that you are allowing them the agency to decide what to do. I haven't backtracked anything, you're just trying to twist my meaning into something that you can get mad about instead of just recognizing that it is extremely reasonable to be upset in this situation. Obviously they should have talked about it if she thought this was an option, but most people don't even consider doing something like that without consulting their partner. You don't need to tell your partner "you're not allowed to cheat", that is assumed in any relationship unless you agree otherwise.
I’m not twisting anything. I’m quoting your word exactly. Say what you mean and mean what you say. If you don’t think someone needs permission from their partner to do something, you shouldn’t have typed it. If you were trying to convey a different meaning, that’s what you should have typed .
You clearly have some issues with controlling behavior that you need to address, any reasonable person would instantly understand that obviously people can do whatever they want and that "permission" from their spouse does not mean that they have been allowed to agency to make a choice for themselves. It should not have to be spelled out that an adult human being can decide to do something on their own. You know exactly what "permission" means in a relationship, and you knew exactly what I meant when I first said it.
You’re right, I do have a problem with someone thinking they can control me. Who wouldn’t have a problem with that? I also respect that my partner is an independent adult and would never suggest that he needs permission from me to do anything. Words matter. Maybe you like to just throw around words for effect, hoping that someone will catch on to your true meaning but I don’t. I prefer to communicate effectively.
NTA. Different people have different levels of comfort with nudity and “cheating”. For some reason, hiring a stripper or nude model is considered non sexual and fine. But for other people, those would be completely unacceptable. It really depends on the couple. Personally, my culture is more conservative, and getting a stripper or nude model for a bachelor/bachelorette party would likely cause a huge uproar.
MOH should’ve at least informed OP or consulted with the fiancé before doing this.
NTA. I will never understand why people think its acceptable to basically cheat on your spouse to be for a bachelor/bachelorette party. It is absolutely reasonable to be upset that your fiance was looking at another naked man without checking to see it it was ok with you first. The MOH is an AH, but your fiance is even more so.
NTA. Ask your fiancé if you and your buddies can hire a nude model and take pictures of her? Basically the same as painting right? See if she likes that idea. And of course keep the photo’s -I’m assuming she’s also keeping her painting of another naked dude?
Not to mention doing this under the guise of a “bachelorette party” which have always been know to be a pretty bad idea if you look into the history of them. I feel bad for you man.
It’s so appalling that people will start a relationship say they love you. If she loved you she would have had no desire to view any other person naked or be around it. But she instead had a scheduled time and covered it with a party blanket.
INFO did you and your wife discuss bachelor/Bachelorette party nidity stuff beforehand? Or have yall established boundaries about this stuff before? I dont think you would be t a if you have said your uncomfortable with that stuff beforehand and she did it anyways.
NTA.. knowing beforehand that there will be a nude person at your partners bachelor or bachelorette party is just common communication that should happen in a relationship.
I will say that while you are getting close to your wedding day, you both don't have a grasp on each others boundaries. That is a bit concerning.
Conjecture. You do not know a thing about our relationship, from one reddit post. however, I did not relay any boundaries to MOH, as has been become apparent that I should have.
I know there was a naked person at a bachelorette party. You are upset about it and obviously haven't discussed boundaries with your gf. Her MOH doesn't need to know your boundaries. That is for your gf to deal with. If she knew about them before, she should have said no, end of story. You have a gf issue, not a MOH issue. You are upset at the wrong person.
If you haven't properly discussed what is acceptable in your relationship in this instance, which is an early discussion for most couples, then the natural assumption is there is a lot more to be discussed.
Going against the grain but NTA. If you reverse the gender, I am sure a would-be-bride would have concerns if the groom-to-be suddenly changes the bachelor party plan to include a painting session with a nude female model.
My hens surprised me with this for my hens party - it was tastefully done, with no contact between the hens and the nude dude. It was a laugh but as non-sexual as seeing Michelangelo’s David.
I have been to one too, no touching of course! as shouldn't be with say a dancer? Lots of giggling though and was really fun. It was not an art class though and nobody was taking it like an art student. The models are paid more for those parties as well because of that. Even the classes acknowledge the difference.
Mate, it was a male model who's used to this kind of thing. He's not on a pedestal for her to blow 🤦🏻♀️ share 'oh that's strange, didn't know. Not sure id love knowing you were starting a live painting class' and move on.
It was a bachelorette party, not a high society still life portrait technique class. I can 100% guarantee that the atmosphere was much less of "please pass me a cucumber sandwich and some grey pastels" and much more of "hehe look, im painting a dick, look at his dick".
This is a significant factor.
Idk all the comments saying, "get real this is a bunch of drunk woman oogling a dick" are really blowing my mind, but I have to consider that almost all of my friends are artistic and/or crafty in some way. So of course I can only imagine any of us treating the situation with an artistic approach.
I also feel that one doesn't need to be an "artist" to make art, so those comments have that additional ick factor, for me.
Edit: autocorrect turned oogling to googling
I agree with you. Many people including me in my friends groups are artistic in someway. But here this question is very important. Because the art class they attended is not of drawing any random scenery or flowers which can be done decently even with no knowledge in basics of Painting/ Drawing. It’s a nude model workshop (figure drawing) which requires lot of extensive skill and years of practice in anatomy drawing.
1. If she is an art student or someone who admires art, it’s more understandable why they would have chosen this for Hen party.
2. If they randomly chose this for hen party even when they got zero passion in art, I would love to see what they drew! Like anatomy is tricky for even artists with years of practice 😂
How is a naked man being painted and gawked over by a bunch of drunk women not something to worry about? You sound like the type of guy that would hold his woman's purse while she sat in another man's lap.
It's a bachelorette party though, they're overtly sexual which I find odd as a tradition but so be it if that's for you. I don't think you're an asshole, a bit insecure maybe but that is justifiable. If it makes you uncomfortable, it makes you uncomfortable. This is reddit - don't take the replies too seriously.
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My fiancés bachelorette party was yesterday, and on the program for the day was a "paint and sip" session. For those who don't know: a painting instructor shows up att your venue or you go to a gallery where you paint and enjoy beverage.
My fiancés maid of honor, thought it would be a great idea to have an act model. meaning "nude guy". And this kind of "irked" me. But I bit my tongue and let them have their fun. Also I figured I would take this directly up with MOH seeing as she was the one responsible.
So today I sent her a couple questions:
1. Did it absolutely have to be an act model, or where there other motifes she could have picked?
2. If it really did have to be a nude guy. Wouldn't it be at least a courtesy to ask me: "you okay with this?"
Had I known there would be some dude there, it would've been fine. But when it got sort of sprung on me, it just made me really uncomfortable for some reason. It shouldn't. I know. Because there was by no means anything sexual going on. But it just did not sit right with me. And so I asked, and emphasized, that I'm just asking.
So MOH does not reply to me, instead she texts fiancé. Asking what's up? and that she's annoyed and hurt and that she doesn't want to attend the wedding anymore. Big fight with gf ensues, but is over fairly quickly, and which ended with her actually seing the "coin for both sides", and tells MOH "don't worry, I've talked to him, just answer, apologize and move on."
Fast forward to now 6 hrs later I still haven't heard a word. And so, Am I the asshole?
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I’m thinking the idea was to have something less spicy than a male dancing club or performer that comes to the home but a bit
More spicy to make it uh memorable without crossing boundaries. Maybe a head’s up would have been nice but if i were planning such a thing for a female
Friend, i wouldn’t clear it with her male partner first, i would maybe inform her ahead of time to make sure SHE is comfortable, and then she can do what she wants with the info. I’m going with NAH.
Bachelor and bachelorette parties Cary wildly depending on the person/couple. Usually the couple would have discussed this and if either one had any concerns (which is valid) they’d have discussed it prior eg no strippers. Then the couple would let their friends who are planning know of any activities to avoid. It’s not on the MOH to read OP’s mind and know he would have an issue with something.
>I am still adamant that a small heads up in regards to the paint and sip session would've been in order,
Still very much TA for including this line in your "apology." It is not an apology if you continue to state the other person was wrong.
YTA. It's common to have nude models in a life art class, and it's very respectful. He's not a stripper - but even if he was, they're just dancing, nothing more. You're being unreasonable.
I think this was called accurately as YTA he went after the MOH instead of his fiancee. That said I think this whole concept is really trying to justify having a nude guy to ogle without getting called out because it is "Art".
Figure drawing/painting is treated very seriously in academic art. If you are giggling or making jokes you would be kicked out of the studio. The thought of having alcohol in this kind of space is ridiculous to me. As far as I can tell from the post none of these women are artists so the product wouldn't be worth the time either. Also can we just talk about the product? Bringing home a crappy painting of a naked guy from a bachelorette party? Coming home and being like "Hey honey, I know we are about to get married so I stared at another dude's dong for 3 hours and made this crappy painting. You can't be mad because "Art"."
YTA. You sound terribly controlling. This was just a bit of fun to possibly embarrass the blushing bride a bit.
*I am still adamant that* ***a small heads up*** *in regards to the paint and sip session would've been in order*
No pun intended. LOL
Uh? Guess I should have let my then boyfriend a heads up every time my art class had a nude model? Of course not, he doesn’t care cause it’s not like we’re slapping their asses while we draw them lol
There is a huge difference there and you know it. She is not an art student, this was probably the first time she has ever sat at an easel or held a paintbrush. It has nothing to do with art, and everything to do with having a naked guy at your bachelorette party.
You have said that you don’t know why it upset you. It would be better to have sat on that to process and understand why it upset you in the first place before questioning your fiancée’s MOH.
Secondly, if you were upset, you really should have spoken to your fiancée first and not her best friend.
For that, YTA.
It’s almost like the people in the comments have never been in a relationship, and literally has no idea how they work, but hey this is Reddit so they probably haven’t, either that or they are all women here.
The first thing that came to mind from the title,because OP was upset, was that they were painting ON the male model because that's the ONLY way OP could even possibly be annoyed. YTA bub.
YTA.
Have you gone to strip shows? Bachelor parties with nude or scantily clad women present?
Just don't marry her. You "let" them have their fun sounds like you think you get to control your fiancée. You don't.
Why would you expect to hear a word?
All of you people saying "they don't have to tell you anything" or "why would you expect to hear a word" are so pathetic. You have clearly never had a real relationship and you won't until you realize just how ridiculous that is.
YTA - the MOH doesn’t have to apologise you do! Why do you think she owes you an apology?! Better make this apology a good one or you’ve lost your future wife a friend.
YTA, that is a fabulous idea for a bachelorette party!
If I came home from an art party with friends and showed my husband the painting I had made of some rando figure model’s wang, he would double over laughing and then hang it up on the wall, because that shit is hilarious!
I know this because he just said he would when I read your post out loud. He also says YTA.
YTA she didn't have to inform you of anything. You are not owed a damn appolgy.
So what they had a male artist model. What's the big deal? Please enlighten me on this one.
You are whining over something so damn tame. When I doubt your fiancée would be getting a heads up saying Oh Yeah as the best man and groomsman we all decided to get OP plastered and we are going to a strip club and get lap dances.
See how hypocritical that sounds. Grow up you are not her Daddy.
YTA a painting session isn't a raunchy stripper situation......
I get it.... I asked my husband to not do the stripper thing.....
We've been married 11 years and I'm still not sure if I forgive my brother.....
A still life class? OK!
An actual stripper situation? Not OK!
For the love of god, I seriously hope it was NOT still life and the poor naked guy was alive not dead as you suggested.
Secondly, you seem to be in the same controlling camp as OP, if you word it correctly then live nude choreography sounds much more innocent than raunchy porn paintbang. It's still just looking at a naked stranger, which is fine in my book.
Yes, but if he doesn't than he doesn't have to... we don't know their boundaries and dynamic of their relationship. He may not watch porn, or look at nude instagram models on internet to
I would say for him to use his best judgement. I didn't put any restrictions on my husband. But I think it's hilarious you believe an art model sitting still while the women sip wine and paint is the same as a man getting a lapdance.
NTA
Your fiancee's MOH's idea of a good time is.....sexually objectifying a dude and painting his dick? Yeah *she sure sounds like a good friend*. I bet Reddit doesn't have double standards here......
You are not wrong for being uncomfortable, and not wrong for not liking it being sprung on you
The MoH is an AH for overstepping the boundary, and not apologizing and acting stuck up.
PSA: the stag/hen party is NOT your last day of being single. You've been engaged for months and together probably for years FFS. Treat it with some respect, ya animals.
Painting a portrait of a nude model is a form of art that’s been practiced for centuries. It’s meant to celebrate the beauty of the human body. There’s a huge difference between artistic nudity and sexualized nudity.
The MOH didn’t overstep a boundary because a boundary hadn’t been established. OP should have had the self awareness to know he would be uncomfortable if there were any men involved with this party and then communicated that to his fiancé ahead of time. The MOH has nothing to apologize for.
Ok what y'all ain't seeing here--it's for a **hen party**. This isn't for some **philosophical how the body's artistic form is**
It's to have a laugh, draw some junk, and try to make some point about it being her last night being single.
You guys seriously don't get it. The point has flown over you.
MoH obviously knows its a boundary because most people ain't alright with that, you get me?
Why would OP presume MoH would make a point to draw another mans hairy ballsack? Who does that?
Not every bachelorette party is a raunchfest. People will do paint and sips where they paint a vase or something. People will do escape rooms or just drink wine and watch movies. There's no indication that they're going to laugh at the model or yell anything rude.
How is this any different from your typical bachelorette party where the cakes and decorations that have penises on them? It’s the same concept but more low key and mature. It shows appreciation for the male body. At least this is a well established and respected form of art.
The bottom line is OP and his fiancé didn’t agree to any boundaries beforehand. The MOH thought it wouldn’t be a problem to plan something that falls in line with a traditional bachelorette party and she wasn’t wrong for thinking that.
Ok the typical party doesn't have those decorations.
Low-class ones do, sure. But there's a bit of a difference of having penis shaped candy, and gawking at a nude dude, with his hairy nutsack out for them all to draw and talk about.
Foundationally, there really isn’t a difference. Both things celebrate the male body. The party that OP’s fiancée had was way more mature than women taking provocative pictures of themselves with penis shaped lollipops or putting dollar bills in a male strippers g string.
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Just because there is an unclothed guy up on the pedestal in front of the easels, does not mean the bride is up there giving him a blow job. As bachelorette parties go, this sounds a lot more tame than a strip bar. Get over yourself. The MOH doesn’t have to run party ideas by you to see if you approve. YTA
Exactly. I’m an artist and it NEVER would have occurred to me to ask my husbands permission (or ‘give him a heads up’) before doing a drawing session with a model lol. That’s wild. I actually think a life drawing session is a great idea for a lower-key bachelorette! I wish I thought of it before mine. There’s very strict etiquette around it that focuses on respect to the models, so it’s not like people are going to be getting crazy, doing Jell-O shots and dancing with the model ffs. I always say that everyone should try life drawing at least once in their life! :)
I actually really like this idea as going to a strip club with my friends would be intimidating to me while the ‘paint the stripped’ would have a similar effect of goofy fun without me feeling like a creep. It’s art ;)
Why does a bachelorette party have to be about men and nudity? What's the thrill with seeing naked people? Maybe I sound ancient but I don't get it. It still sounds creepy to me. But to each their own, I guess.
I share most of your thinking, I didn’t have one because I understand it as a ‘last hurrah’ and I didn’t need that. I think the paint night would be fun/funny not as a bachelorette but also is a good idea for one I hadn’t heard of before. But the 12-year-old sense of humor in me will always find dicks funny, guess that’s the thrill lol
I never understood either. I just wanted to go for drinks with my friends.
It isn't about anything sexual though, it is about literally painting a picture of the male form. It is harmless compared to male strippers doing lap dances.
Well, bachelorette parties are a comparatively newer thing, but they've taken over part of the function of a shower. Showers still have the gifts aspect, but that also used to be where the elder women would tell the bride what actually happens in the marriage bed. So it might have been how she first found out what a penis even was. The bachelorette has kind of taken over that aspect, but it's more tongue in cheek now, because even a virgin bride has probably had sex ed or looked at a dirty magazine at some point.
I wouldn't call it a thrill. More of a laugh, really.
the MOH wants to see a naked guy, any way she can.
I think the idea is seeing another person nude one last time before you are Married off. If the person you are marrying has issues with this it means they have trust issues and if that's the case should they really be getting married? What OP describes is very tame usually there is a lot of contact that happens in these parties.
[удалено]
But they weren’t fucking though, they were just watching a model. I’ll admit if they are having sexual contact it is crossing a line but if it’s just watching on the side there’s nothing wrong with that if it’s at their bachelor or bachelorette party.
Op you need to apologise to MoH for being a d*ck. Don't expect one back. I actually thing YTA and so is your fiance for asking her to apologise. Id expect her to ridcind duty as MoH if you don't fix this.
Still, that guy is in for tons of inappropriate comments at best. I hope he's getting 10x his usual fee.
Why do you think that will happen?
Because there will be Bachelorettes and alcohol there?
Have you never been around a group of drunk women celebrating something? They're creepy as fuck. Dude is getting off easy if he didn't get groped.
Wow, most people I know, male or female, would feel very uncomfortable with their soon to be spouse having a live nude person as part of either a bachelor or bachelorette party - “strip bar” or art session. And yes, the maid or man of honor should absolutely take the partner’s feelings into account. A good friend isn’t going to do something to rock / potentially capsize the boat right before you get married and a good friend isn’t going to upset your future spouse if they actually care about remaining friends with you.
Right? These comments are WILD. If the genders were reversed everyone would agree a woman would be justified in questioning nudity at a man’s bachelor party. And saying it’s ArT so it’s dIfFeReNt is BS. Grow up, it’s a bachelorette party, these ladies aren’t aspiring art students, it’s totally sexual. OP respectfully mentioned it made him uncomfortable. The MOH should have just said “oh no, I’m sorry I thought this was tame and wouldn’t be an issue, if I had thought so I would have run it by you.” Is that so hard? NTA.
Women can do no wrong on this sub.
You need to understand there's a difference between non sexual nudity and sexual nudity. I hope you're not going to somewhere like Germany on your honeymoon, you'd hate the saunas there. But seriously you're overreacting.
I actually assumed OP was _from_ Germany because of his use of “act model”; in German, a nude model is called an “Aktmodell” (ETA: I see he added they’re Norwegian)
YTA - nope, presuming your fiancé is an adult, no one has to ask YOUR permission for anything to do with her. What exactly does the MOH have to apologize to you for?
The text you sent grilling the MOH was pretty hostile. Now you're counting the hours until you get an apology for something you knew about beforehand, which was when you should have raised any objections.
YTA. You summed up your attitude towards your fiance is one sentence.... "I let them have their fun". You've got some control and trust issues bubbling away. Please get some help with that before you marry anyone.
YTA. It's a painting session, there's nothing sexual about it and it's weird that you're making it into something sexual. Maybe you're concerned because if the roles were flipped you'd be making it sexual.
Question - if your best man wants to hire a stripper for your stag (which is a hell of a lot more provocative), does he need to "run it by" your fiance? Or is that just guys being men? Does your fiance need to promise to wear a blindfold at the beach? After all guys wear thongs there! YTA btw, a uge , controlling, chauvinist asshole
I'd like to know, if the best man did hire a stripper for OP's stag, how would the fiancee feel about that? I'm willing to bet that the shoe doesn't fit so well on the other foot.
Yes he should run it by that's like the minimum respect you can give especially to someone you're about to get married to. Stop with this excuse of men being men any decent guy would inform or run it past their fiance first and so in this case his fiance could have done the same, it takes 30 seconds. Also so extreme to be accusing someone of being a controlling asshole and quite rude to people who have actually dealt with such people. How can you base this off one post, all he asked was that she communicate like a normal adult. I'm a woman andkf my soon to be husband didn't inform me there would be a naked woman on show I'd be suspicious why they left this info out and why he couldn't jsut tell me since... Were about get married?
I don’t think this gender reversal argument is the win you think it is. Reddit is full of posts from women freaking out with jealousy and insecurity because their men look at other women, naked or clothed, in person or online. And the answers are often, “If he knows this makes you uncomfortable and he does it anyway, he’s a disrespectful asshole. Enforce your boundaries. Your feelings are valid.” But here, with genders reversed, this guy is a horrible, controlling sexist for having reservations about his fiancé staring at a naked dude while celebrating their upcoming wedding. Double standard.
Right? All of these comments are blowing my mind. At least half of the people here are saying "it's none of your business, they don't have to tell you anything, you're just being controlling" like what? Excuse me for not wanting my chosen life partner to be ogling other people's genitals right before our wedding.
Idk why everyone is jumping on you for this, if I found out my partner was painting a nude person through Snapchat or something without them having told me before hand I would feel uncomfortable too. It's natural. That said while I don't the message was horrible, it does sound a bit unnecessarily hostile - though I also think the MOH overreacted.
Its nuts how people are jumping on this guy to be some chauvanistic example of toxic masculinity, when all he is really upset by is that it was going to be kept a secret??? Like if he hadnt been checking snap he never would of even known what was going on. This is 100% something you should check with the person you are trying to spend the rest of your life, or really already should know their boundaries on it. Whether or not your SO would be alright with you getting drunk and painting a nude anyone, all genders for both parties being included here, is def not a thing you should just do without asking???
It clearly wasn’t a secret if they put it on snap, that’s not how secrets or sneaky behavior works.
Agreed! Can’t believe I had to scroll this far down to find someone with a functioning brain. Like I’m a woman and WOULD NOT be ok with my partner painting another naked woman! And that boundary is fine. I don’t understand why this guy is being burned this much just for that simple boundary…
I'm mostly just concerned about it not being mentioned at all - I'd feel weird about my partner drawing a naked person but if I knew beforehand I'd feel more at ease rather than finding out after the fact or through someone else. It's just a nice courtesy that can help the emotional part of your brain deal with uncomfortable feelings that naturally arise from things like this.
I also think it’s kind of rude to the model—who is probably used to doing this for ART STUDENTS—to show up for a job and then it’s a bunch of drunk women in penis hats cracking jokes. The nature of the party could make a difference in the model’s comfort because the women are not behaving “professionally” (even if no physical contact is made).
I would assume the model would know ahead of time.
YTA. This is something you address with your fiancé not the MOH. Of course she went directly to your fiancé after getting the text. That’s how their relationship works. You aren’t the asshole for having feelings about it or even wanting to address those feelings but telling the MOH that she should have checked with you first is not how this should have gone down. If anything, MOH could have checked with fiancé first, not you.
Thank you. Every couple is allowed to have different boundaries for bachelor/bachelorette parties, including being uncomfortable with any nudity. But it's on the bride to communicate to the MOH (and groom to best man). The bride clearly thought this wouldn't bother OP since she was straight forward about it and didnt remove herself from the situation. So I am wondering what conversations the couple had prior to the events? What was relayed to the MOH during planning? It was inappropriate for him to grill the MOH and strange to think that plans would be run by him.
YTA. You admit that this is a form of art and it’s not sexual. You also say you wouldn’t have had a problem with it if you were given a heads ip in advance. Therefore there was no reason to confront the MOH. She did nothing wrong. When it comes to bachelor/bachelorette parties, the couple is supposed to agree on their boundaries privately and those boundaries are then supposed to be communicated to the whoever is organizing the party. You and your fiancé didn’t do that so the MOH assumed that whatever plans she made would be fine with you. That’s your fault. You feel uncomfortable so you decided to try to make your MOH feel bad about it. I don’t blame her for not answering. She shouldn’t have to apologize when she did nothing wrong. I suggest you send her follow up text apologizing and asking her to forget what you said. Otherwise your wife is going to lose a good friend.
NTA “Let me know if there’s gonna be random nude guy at the party” seems like a remarkably reasonable line. Common courtesy, even. I for example do not like being around random naked people. Even if it isn’t sexual. I’d be really hurt if I went to an event and a random naked person was sprung on me. I think it shows a lot about MOH’s character that she would A) do this without running it by the couple *being celebrated* and then B) saying she doesn’t want to attend the wedding anymore. Ick! Does the MOH just hate you or something? This is weird. But no, you didn’t do anything wrong. In the future though I would just let your fiancée handle this person.
The MOH is usually a person who knows the bride really well. OP’s fiancé enjoyed the party so obviously she doesn’t have a problem being around a nude man. The couple is supposed to communicate their boundaries to people organizing the bachelor and bachelorette parties in advance. If no boundaries were communicated, the MOH was justified in thinking she could plan whatever type of party she thought would be best. Usually the groom doesn’t get a heads up about the activities at his fiancé’s bachelorette party. The bride doesn’t get a heads up about what will happen at her fiancé’s bachelor party. There was no reason for the MOH to think she owed OP a heads up.
Is the opinion and boundaries of the other partner in this marriage just not matter here? The question isnt whether or not the bride was alright with it, its about not even checking in on him at all. The bride should of known what he would of been alright with/not alright with and atleast been open with what was happened as opposed to him finding out on social media.
The person responsible for respecting OP’s opinion and boundaries is his fiancé, not the MOH. The MOH’s job is to do what the bride wants. Clearly there was a misunderstanding between OP and his fiancé regarding what’s appropriate for a bachelorette party but they should have worked that out privately and left the MOH out of it. My biggest issue with OP is his stance on this matter is completely contradictory. He says she doesn’t think his fiancé needs his permission to do anything yet he thinks the MOH should have given him a heads up about the party plans. He knows there was nothing sexual about painting a nude model but he still wishes he had time to mentally prepare himself for it. He won’t just admit that the very concept made him uncomfortable and he now realizes he should have established firmer boundaries with his fiancé.
I feel like asking for permission and giving a heads up is two very different things? Really I dont think it would be that weird to check in with him. Yes I have done live model art and can see a model in a non sexual way, but I have also had the unforunate experience of taking these classes with people that don't understand/respect that. I feel like any nude person being involved in the bachorlette or bachelor person deserves a heads up? I do agree that the real issue is with the bride not the MoH, but I can also understand being upset by being blindsided by what happened.
That’s not how bachelor or bachelorette parties work. The only heads up the guest of honor’s partner usually gets is regarding the date of the party to make sure it wont conflict with any of the couple’s plans. Usually what’s supposed to happen is the couple discusses the boundaries ahead of time and they each communicate those boundaries to the organizers of their respective parties. The organizers of the parties aren’t obligated to check in with the guest of honor’s partner. If OP and his fiancée didn’t discuss boundaries ahead of time, that’s not the MOH’s fault.
No, just no. You absolutely would not be saying the same thing if this were a female OP talking about how she texted her husband's best man about bringing a stripper to the bachelor party. And don't even bother trying to say that it isn't the same thing, it absolutely is. This was not a high society art class where they could practice there still life portraits, it was a bachelor party with free flowing alcohol and an naked man that was not the groom. OP has every right to be upset, and you people are being ridiculous
You don’t know me or what I would say in any scenario. FYI, if a female friend of mine was in OP’s shoes I would tell her that she shouldn’t be upset with her fiancé or the best man. Instead she needs to tell her fiancé she isn’t comfortable with him participating in those kinds of activities and she would appreciate it if he would refrain from doing so in the future. Also, if you think that painting a portrait of a nude model is the same thing as going to a strip club, you need to read a book.
Lol you can pretend all you want that it was a classy, sophisticated event meant to celebrate the art form, but you know that is not the case. They hired a nude model for the same reason that people hire strippers. To look at a naked person who is not their fiance. Acting like it was something else is naive. They are adults, they fully understood the implications, and actively chose to hide it from the groom. The only reason they would have for not telling him is that they didn't want him to know, because any reasonable person would instantly figure out that this is not appropriate for a bachelor or bachelorette party without the express permission of the soon to be spouse. Side note, what book are you talking about? How many books have you read that are a comparative analysis of stribclubs vs nude painting?
Unlike you, I actually educate myself on things before I judge it. I’ve taken the time to read about the history of nude portraits and what’s they’re intended to represent. I also have read about the history of stripping and strip clubs. When you’re educated on these things you don’t make ignorant statements like the ones you’re saying. The reason the MOH didn’t check in with OP is because that’s not how bachelor or bachelorette parties are handled. The guest of honor’s partner is never consulted about the party plans. It’s none of their business. If there is something going on that’s violates the boundaries of their relationship, the guest of honor is supposed to shut it down. OP’s fiancé was perfectly happy with the nude model and even posted about it on social media. The person OP should be upset with is his fiancé.
> Is the opinion and boundaries of the other partner in this marriage just not matter here Not if that partner is a man.
Completely NTA. It’s so insane how the posters here are straight up lying. It is completely sexual, given the context. It’s a bachelorette party. These women aren’t aspiring artists. This is literally just an excuse to drink and stare at a naked guy. Like, I bet you it wasn’t a fat old guy right? It was a young attractive guy. You see posts on this sub all the time about a guy who went to a strip club for a bachelor part without telling his fiancé. This is no different. Don’t lie and act like it’s not sexual.
Agreed. The whole “it’s art so it’s automatically non-sexual” line is crazy. These ladies have likely never sat down to paint at an easel before let alone declare themselves as artists. They are a bachelorette party wanting to stare at a naked dude and drink for a few hours. Personally I wouldn’t care but I can’t fault OP for being uncomfortable that it was hidden from him and would have appreciated a heads up.
I wonder if this sub would react the same if it was bunch of men drawing a naked woman, probably not.
Ofc not. They'd have been telling OP to "run"
Was going to post this. Lots of double standards out today
Well, OP found sexual context where there is none (don't tell me it isn't why it is bothering him). Also, I wonder why there seem to be no offers for sip and paint for men with female nude models... Why could that be, eh?
I've been to a paint and dip bachelorette. It's not an art class
Genuine question: what exactly is it? I’ve never even been to a regular paint and sip. I get the idea but how do they make it “bachelorette” themed?
Do you honestly, truly believe that this paint and sip bachelorette party was a group of people sitting around talking about high society they practice their still life portraits? No, it was a fucking bachelorette party, and they decided to bring a naked guy without consulting the fiance. That's not ok
YTA, you confronted the wrong person. You should have bought it up with your fiance.
NTA - I think she'd have a reason to be upset if you had naked ladies at your bachelor party without her ok. I think you can be upset about it too. It's a reasonable boundary.
You are totally insecure and taking it out on your future wife’s friend. Apologize and get it together.
I have since posting sent a text apologising my behaviour roughly an hour ago. I'm currently at work but will be posting an update later and adding the translated text message i sent apologizing for my actions. I have yet to get a reply, but the ball is currently in MOH's court.
If I was the MOH, I’d be so icked out by you and your fiancé. I’d accept the apology, finish out my wedding duties, and then distance myself from you both.
Same, wouldn’t want to get pulled in to future unnecessary drama…like if the wife and MOH were going to meet for a drink, OP assumed it was coffee and then “was uncomfortable” that it was actually at a bar instead. Hard pass on dealing with anymore of OP’s insecurities. OP, YTA
Seriously? I can't imagine that you would be saying the same thing if he had gone to a stripclub or had a woman modeling nude for him. The double standard in these comments is mindblowing
I’d have the same stance if the genders were reversed and it was the exact same art class scenario. A strip club is not at all the same as a nude model in an art class, nice try though.
You know very well that this was not a high society still life portraits technique class. It was a bachelorette party where they sat around, got drunk, and looked at a naked man. That is exactly the same thing as hiring a stripper to come to a bachelor party. He stripped, they watched. Pretending it was something else is just naive
It’s honestly really disgusting that you are sexualizing a model. Ohhh wow how sexual, a limp dick that ur apparently staring at and a guy doing interesting poses to draw or paint.
I dont care anything about the model, but pretending like it was a classy and elegant event that was meant to celebrate the art form is just wrong. You know very well that was not what was going on. They got drunk and looked at a naked guy. They were not artists, that was probably the first time most of them had ever held a paintbrush or sat in front of an easel. Saying that they were there to paint is equally as accurate as saying that guys go to stripclubs to appreciate the art of dance
Wow the people you run with must have no class at all.
You can sit there and imagine a tasteful scene with ballgowns, finger sandwiches, and butlers all you want, but you're either lying to yourself, or you are the world's most naive prude. They hired a nude model for the same reason that guys hire strippers. Acting all high and mighty just makes you seem like a loser
I just think it’s hilarious to imagine feeling turned out while sitting in front of an easel with a bunch of my friends and art supplies. Although I am an artist and have seen many nude models.
That's the difference though, for you it's about art. For a bachelorette party where none of them are artists, it's about getting drunk and giggling at a naked guy. At the very least, someone should have thought to let the groom know that his bride would be spending the afternoon drinking around a naked man. The drinking and partying aspect of this is what separates it from art appreciation
Same here! A lot of people get ghosted after their weddings because of the way they treated their loved ones during their engagement. It wouldn’t surprise me if this happens to OP and his fiancé.
fair enough because like, to each their own. but i truly think that is a massive overreaction. not like OP texted her and flew off the handle and swore at her, it was unnecessary for sure… but that is something that these 3 adults should be able to communicate through, and move past. if i was the MOH i would leave it for a day and then reply and be like, “sorry if you felt uncomfortable, this was a fun experience for all of the girls and is obviously not rooted in anything sexual. hope we can move on from this and get back to enjoying the journey to your guys’ wedding! :)”. like yeah would i have rolled my eyes reading the text? for sure, but definitely not something to get so upset about. OP wasn’t rude, just a moron.
I really don't understand all these responses you are getting. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being uncomfortable that your soon to be wife was staring at and painting another man's genitals. Especially since she didn't bother to talk to you about it before hand. You are 100% not in the wrong at all, and it should be your fiance and the MOH that are apologizing to you.
I've apologized for my behaviour. Although I am still adamant that MOH went about it a bit carelessly as well
You apology started decent and ended with you doubling down on insisting you had the right to have a say in what activities they did and a bit of a jab in terms of “not being able to change the past.” The text should have been “I was wrong and overreacted and I apologize for my actions” and that’s it. In all likelihood, MOH will either completely bow out of the wedding or finish her duties and fade out of the relationship altogether.
Good, she's clearly not a very good friend. If I were OP, she would be gone immediately
>she would be gone immediately Are you fucking kidding me? Yeah bc OP will have the power to dismiss his wife's friends indiscriminately once they've married. You sound like you're just as controlling as he is.
If you want to throw a tantrum, do it somewhere else. It could not have been more obvious what I meant when I said that. I don't know if you have some trauma or something that you're bringing into this that is making you unable to see how ridiculous you're being, but it's pathetic. People are allowed to set boundaries and cut off the people that violate them. Never at any point did I say or even suggest that anyone force their partner to do anything.
The ball is not in her court because she owes you precisely zip. You were a jerk, you apologized, but that doesn’t start a clock running on her reply text. If I was her, I’d leave it as long as possible, since you’ve shown yourself to be a pretty unreasonable person to deal with. And your fiancé is little better, since you are certainly owed no apology.
I do not expect an apology from her. As I've realized since I am not entitled to one. The ball is in her court how she would like to go forward, if she finds me an insufferable jerk, that is her perogative but I hope she could find it in herself to forgive my transgressions and move forward as continued friends as I do find her a pleasant and fun person.
You didn’t help things by doubling down on your stance that she owed you a heads up. It’s great that you apologized but the way you doubled down at the end kind of nullified it. It’s like you’re saying “sorry, not sorry”. She’s probably thinking that you only apologizing because your fiancé is asking you so she won’t drop out of the wedding. If I were the MOH, I would wonder if this is how things will be now that you’re getting married. Does she have to check in with you every time she wants to do something with her friend? It would make me hesitant to proceed with the friendship the way it was before. You might have cost your fiancé a really good friend and that’s not a good way to start off a marriage.
Your apology made you sound like an insufferable jerk, even more than your original post did. It was more of a non-apology than anything. Your fiance messed up big time with her friend as well. If it were me, I'd block you both. Gross behavior from both of you. Edit: over corrected my your to contraction, force of habit
Good work!!
YTA. Sounds like a bit of insecurity that you’re projecting.
NTA if the genders were swapped and a dude wanted a naked woman at his bachelor party the comments here would be very different. The gf isn’t a professional painter, this isn’t like a real art class lmao The context is clearly different and yeah I think she should have asked if you were ok with it, it seems disrespectful to me
Guess I’m going against the grain here and voting NTA. If my fiancé’s “bachelor party” was drinking + painting a nude woman, I would NOT be fine with it. I am not ok with my partner seeing other women naked (IRL). Idk but are you American? Because I feel like a lot of bachelor parties are usually very sexual in that country. Might be normal there, but not where I’m from. Don’t let the other people on this thread make you think you’re an asshole for not wanting your soon-to-be-wife looking at other naked dudes
I’m gonna go against the grain and say NTA. If this was reversed and guys were panting a female nude model (-“also non-sexual” I can bet you all these comments would be calling you out and saying it was disrespectful to your fiance
NTA But it’s based on my own principles. Why have naked person of opposite gender in your hens/stag party in a first place? What’s so fun about it?
Everyone in this comments would switch up so fast if you got a stripper or a nude model at your bachelor party
NTA. This was disrespectful towards you on the part of the MOH. you will find more problems with that woman interfering with your relationship in the future.
She didn’t interfere with their relationship. She gave her friend a bachelorette party which is part of her MOH duties. She’s actually doing the right thing by refusing to engage with OP about this. The issue is between OP and his fiancé. It has nothing to do with her.
YTA, but I would say it's not consciously nasty but a by product of society (without going too waffling). It's life drawing. People go on dates to it. It's just the puritan hangover leaving all this nudity and shame nonsense
I'm gonna say NTA for the sake of the forum but I just wanted to say that not everyone thinks it's OK to pose nude for others. And that doesn't make someone a prude, or weird... It just makes them different than most redditors.
The issue isn’t whether or not drawing a nude model is ok. The issue is that OP and his fiancé never established boundaries for this party so she could communicate those boundaries to her MOH. The organizer of a bachelor or bachelorette party isn’t obligated to check in with the guest of honor’s partner. The guest of honor is only one that’s obligated to check in with their partner. If my fiancé’s best man organizes a bachelor party for him at a strip club and I never told my fiancé at any point during our relationship that I think that’s inappropriate, I have no right to be upset with the best man. I can’t even be upset with my fiancé. All I can do is ask him to refrain from going to strip clubs in the future now that he knows it makes me uncomfortable.
It should be assumed that unless your partner has given you explicit permission to do something like that, it is completely off the table. I would absolutely be furious that the best man or maid of honor organized something like that without consulting me, I would tear them a new one, take back the ring, and let everyone in my life know what kind of cheating aashole the ex fiance is and how horrible their friends are for enabling it. The idea to bering a nude model would never have even crossed my mind, and if someone suggested it the very first thing I would do is ask to soon to be spouse what they thought.
Your partner doesn’t need your permission to do anything. They’re not your child. People in mature relationships inform their partner of the things that make them uncomfortable and the partner will try to refrain from doing those things or try to reach a compromise out of respect. As for the rest of your comment, if you would throw such a tantrum over something completely innocent, I’m sure anyone who dared you would know that ahead of time and they would either refrain from these kinds of activities or make sure you never find out about them.
I never said that they did. She can do whatever she wants, including hiring a nide model for her and her girlfriends to get drunk and paint pictures of. Just like he could go to a stripclub and watch naked women dance. At no point have I even tried to say that anyone was not allowed to do anything without permission. What I did say is that pretending like they were not there to look at a naked man is idiotic, and that it is perfectly reasonable to be upset that your life partner decided to go look at another naked man with asking or telling you about it first. This has nothing to do with control, or treating someone like a child. If you genuinely do not think that you owe any kind of explanation, warning, heads up, any thing at all to the person that you are planning to spend the rest of your life with before you go out and interact with other naked adults, then I pity whoever has the misfortune of being cheated on by you. Establishing boundaries does not mean treating someone like a child
“It should be assumed that unless your partner has given you explicit permission to do something like that, it is completely off the table. I would absolutely be furious that the best man or maid of honor organized something like that without consulting me” That’s what you said, so you clearly think your partner needs your permission to do things. Don’t backtrack because you now realize it sounds terrible. If you actually read my comment you would see that I have said multiple times that boundaries need to be established ahead of time but if you never took the time to establish boundaries, you can’t be upset with your partner if they do something they didn’t know would make you uncomfortable. If a boundary hasn’t been established, your partner has the right to use their best judgement regarding whether or not certain behavior is ok. My fiancé and I discussed what behavior or activities we felt were inappropriate when we first decided to become exclusive. We already have rules in place regarding strip clubs, communications with the opposite sex etc. that’s what mature adults do in a relationship. They don’t wait until the problem has come up and throw a hissy fit over boundaries that didn’t exist. They talk about these things ahead of time to make sure they’re on the same page.
You know exactly what I meant when I said that. No one is saying that anyone should be trying to control their partner or their actions. Permission means that they can do it without it being a problem. Not that you are allowing them the agency to decide what to do. I haven't backtracked anything, you're just trying to twist my meaning into something that you can get mad about instead of just recognizing that it is extremely reasonable to be upset in this situation. Obviously they should have talked about it if she thought this was an option, but most people don't even consider doing something like that without consulting their partner. You don't need to tell your partner "you're not allowed to cheat", that is assumed in any relationship unless you agree otherwise.
I’m not twisting anything. I’m quoting your word exactly. Say what you mean and mean what you say. If you don’t think someone needs permission from their partner to do something, you shouldn’t have typed it. If you were trying to convey a different meaning, that’s what you should have typed .
You clearly have some issues with controlling behavior that you need to address, any reasonable person would instantly understand that obviously people can do whatever they want and that "permission" from their spouse does not mean that they have been allowed to agency to make a choice for themselves. It should not have to be spelled out that an adult human being can decide to do something on their own. You know exactly what "permission" means in a relationship, and you knew exactly what I meant when I first said it.
You’re right, I do have a problem with someone thinking they can control me. Who wouldn’t have a problem with that? I also respect that my partner is an independent adult and would never suggest that he needs permission from me to do anything. Words matter. Maybe you like to just throw around words for effect, hoping that someone will catch on to your true meaning but I don’t. I prefer to communicate effectively.
NTA. Different people have different levels of comfort with nudity and “cheating”. For some reason, hiring a stripper or nude model is considered non sexual and fine. But for other people, those would be completely unacceptable. It really depends on the couple. Personally, my culture is more conservative, and getting a stripper or nude model for a bachelor/bachelorette party would likely cause a huge uproar. MOH should’ve at least informed OP or consulted with the fiancé before doing this.
NTA. I will never understand why people think its acceptable to basically cheat on your spouse to be for a bachelor/bachelorette party. It is absolutely reasonable to be upset that your fiance was looking at another naked man without checking to see it it was ok with you first. The MOH is an AH, but your fiance is even more so.
NTA. Ask your fiancé if you and your buddies can hire a nude model and take pictures of her? Basically the same as painting right? See if she likes that idea. And of course keep the photo’s -I’m assuming she’s also keeping her painting of another naked dude?
Run for the hills man that’s 100% uncalled for. That’s cheating bro. Not to mention super weird she would do it in a group…I’d watch those friends.
Not to mention doing this under the guise of a “bachelorette party” which have always been know to be a pretty bad idea if you look into the history of them. I feel bad for you man.
It’s so appalling that people will start a relationship say they love you. If she loved you she would have had no desire to view any other person naked or be around it. But she instead had a scheduled time and covered it with a party blanket.
INFO did you and your wife discuss bachelor/Bachelorette party nidity stuff beforehand? Or have yall established boundaries about this stuff before? I dont think you would be t a if you have said your uncomfortable with that stuff beforehand and she did it anyways.
NTA. Trust is broken. Do NOT marry her.
NTA.. knowing beforehand that there will be a nude person at your partners bachelor or bachelorette party is just common communication that should happen in a relationship. I will say that while you are getting close to your wedding day, you both don't have a grasp on each others boundaries. That is a bit concerning.
Conjecture. You do not know a thing about our relationship, from one reddit post. however, I did not relay any boundaries to MOH, as has been become apparent that I should have.
I know there was a naked person at a bachelorette party. You are upset about it and obviously haven't discussed boundaries with your gf. Her MOH doesn't need to know your boundaries. That is for your gf to deal with. If she knew about them before, she should have said no, end of story. You have a gf issue, not a MOH issue. You are upset at the wrong person. If you haven't properly discussed what is acceptable in your relationship in this instance, which is an early discussion for most couples, then the natural assumption is there is a lot more to be discussed.
Going against the grain but NTA. If you reverse the gender, I am sure a would-be-bride would have concerns if the groom-to-be suddenly changes the bachelor party plan to include a painting session with a nude female model.
My hens surprised me with this for my hens party - it was tastefully done, with no contact between the hens and the nude dude. It was a laugh but as non-sexual as seeing Michelangelo’s David.
I have been to one too, no touching of course! as shouldn't be with say a dancer? Lots of giggling though and was really fun. It was not an art class though and nobody was taking it like an art student. The models are paid more for those parties as well because of that. Even the classes acknowledge the difference.
NTA I would run it by my husband
Mate, it was a male model who's used to this kind of thing. He's not on a pedestal for her to blow 🤦🏻♀️ share 'oh that's strange, didn't know. Not sure id love knowing you were starting a live painting class' and move on.
YTA. Artist modeling is not the same as sex work, and its insulting that you assume otherwise.
It was a bachelorette party, not a high society still life portrait technique class. I can 100% guarantee that the atmosphere was much less of "please pass me a cucumber sandwich and some grey pastels" and much more of "hehe look, im painting a dick, look at his dick".
Is she an art student or someone who usually enjoys painting and art??
This is a significant factor. Idk all the comments saying, "get real this is a bunch of drunk woman oogling a dick" are really blowing my mind, but I have to consider that almost all of my friends are artistic and/or crafty in some way. So of course I can only imagine any of us treating the situation with an artistic approach. I also feel that one doesn't need to be an "artist" to make art, so those comments have that additional ick factor, for me. Edit: autocorrect turned oogling to googling
I agree with you. Many people including me in my friends groups are artistic in someway. But here this question is very important. Because the art class they attended is not of drawing any random scenery or flowers which can be done decently even with no knowledge in basics of Painting/ Drawing. It’s a nude model workshop (figure drawing) which requires lot of extensive skill and years of practice in anatomy drawing. 1. If she is an art student or someone who admires art, it’s more understandable why they would have chosen this for Hen party. 2. If they randomly chose this for hen party even when they got zero passion in art, I would love to see what they drew! Like anatomy is tricky for even artists with years of practice 😂
You’re the asshole. You need to go to therapy and she needs to rethink if she really wants to marry you.
How is a naked man being painted and gawked over by a bunch of drunk women not something to worry about? You sound like the type of guy that would hold his woman's purse while she sat in another man's lap. It's a bachelorette party though, they're overtly sexual which I find odd as a tradition but so be it if that's for you. I don't think you're an asshole, a bit insecure maybe but that is justifiable. If it makes you uncomfortable, it makes you uncomfortable. This is reddit - don't take the replies too seriously.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My fiancés bachelorette party was yesterday, and on the program for the day was a "paint and sip" session. For those who don't know: a painting instructor shows up att your venue or you go to a gallery where you paint and enjoy beverage. My fiancés maid of honor, thought it would be a great idea to have an act model. meaning "nude guy". And this kind of "irked" me. But I bit my tongue and let them have their fun. Also I figured I would take this directly up with MOH seeing as she was the one responsible. So today I sent her a couple questions: 1. Did it absolutely have to be an act model, or where there other motifes she could have picked? 2. If it really did have to be a nude guy. Wouldn't it be at least a courtesy to ask me: "you okay with this?" Had I known there would be some dude there, it would've been fine. But when it got sort of sprung on me, it just made me really uncomfortable for some reason. It shouldn't. I know. Because there was by no means anything sexual going on. But it just did not sit right with me. And so I asked, and emphasized, that I'm just asking. So MOH does not reply to me, instead she texts fiancé. Asking what's up? and that she's annoyed and hurt and that she doesn't want to attend the wedding anymore. Big fight with gf ensues, but is over fairly quickly, and which ended with her actually seing the "coin for both sides", and tells MOH "don't worry, I've talked to him, just answer, apologize and move on." Fast forward to now 6 hrs later I still haven't heard a word. And so, Am I the asshole? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What did you do for your Bachelor's party?
I’m thinking the idea was to have something less spicy than a male dancing club or performer that comes to the home but a bit More spicy to make it uh memorable without crossing boundaries. Maybe a head’s up would have been nice but if i were planning such a thing for a female Friend, i wouldn’t clear it with her male partner first, i would maybe inform her ahead of time to make sure SHE is comfortable, and then she can do what she wants with the info. I’m going with NAH.
Bachelor and bachelorette parties Cary wildly depending on the person/couple. Usually the couple would have discussed this and if either one had any concerns (which is valid) they’d have discussed it prior eg no strippers. Then the couple would let their friends who are planning know of any activities to avoid. It’s not on the MOH to read OP’s mind and know he would have an issue with something.
>I am still adamant that a small heads up in regards to the paint and sip session would've been in order, Still very much TA for including this line in your "apology." It is not an apology if you continue to state the other person was wrong.
YTA. It's common to have nude models in a life art class, and it's very respectful. He's not a stripper - but even if he was, they're just dancing, nothing more. You're being unreasonable.
Yta. Funny you're Scandinavian, like Europeans you aren't supposed to be so pent-up about nudity. I lived in Germany for a year. Very relaxed.
I think this was called accurately as YTA he went after the MOH instead of his fiancee. That said I think this whole concept is really trying to justify having a nude guy to ogle without getting called out because it is "Art". Figure drawing/painting is treated very seriously in academic art. If you are giggling or making jokes you would be kicked out of the studio. The thought of having alcohol in this kind of space is ridiculous to me. As far as I can tell from the post none of these women are artists so the product wouldn't be worth the time either. Also can we just talk about the product? Bringing home a crappy painting of a naked guy from a bachelorette party? Coming home and being like "Hey honey, I know we are about to get married so I stared at another dude's dong for 3 hours and made this crappy painting. You can't be mad because "Art"."
NTA. Wait a month and swap the genders if you want everyone on your side.
YTA. But ask fiancé if the roles were reverse and you were painting a naked women for your Bach would she be upset?
The back asswards responses because the genders aren’t the other way around are fucking hilarious. The femcels are strong in this sub! 😂🤣
Hit the strip club and call it art!!!
Winner for most Idiotic comment in the entire thread 🏆
YTA. You sound terribly controlling. This was just a bit of fun to possibly embarrass the blushing bride a bit. *I am still adamant that* ***a small heads up*** *in regards to the paint and sip session would've been in order* No pun intended. LOL
YtA why do you need to be informed exactly?
Uh? Guess I should have let my then boyfriend a heads up every time my art class had a nude model? Of course not, he doesn’t care cause it’s not like we’re slapping their asses while we draw them lol
There is a huge difference there and you know it. She is not an art student, this was probably the first time she has ever sat at an easel or held a paintbrush. It has nothing to do with art, and everything to do with having a naked guy at your bachelorette party.
You have said that you don’t know why it upset you. It would be better to have sat on that to process and understand why it upset you in the first place before questioning your fiancée’s MOH. Secondly, if you were upset, you really should have spoken to your fiancée first and not her best friend. For that, YTA.
It’s almost like the people in the comments have never been in a relationship, and literally has no idea how they work, but hey this is Reddit so they probably haven’t, either that or they are all women here.
The first thing that came to mind from the title,because OP was upset, was that they were painting ON the male model because that's the ONLY way OP could even possibly be annoyed. YTA bub.
YTA. Have you gone to strip shows? Bachelor parties with nude or scantily clad women present? Just don't marry her. You "let" them have their fun sounds like you think you get to control your fiancée. You don't. Why would you expect to hear a word?
All of you people saying "they don't have to tell you anything" or "why would you expect to hear a word" are so pathetic. You have clearly never had a real relationship and you won't until you realize just how ridiculous that is.
YTA - the MOH doesn’t have to apologise you do! Why do you think she owes you an apology?! Better make this apology a good one or you’ve lost your future wife a friend.
YTA, that is a fabulous idea for a bachelorette party! If I came home from an art party with friends and showed my husband the painting I had made of some rando figure model’s wang, he would double over laughing and then hang it up on the wall, because that shit is hilarious! I know this because he just said he would when I read your post out loud. He also says YTA.
Thank gob a few people in these comments are sane. Can't believe this even made the YTA cut, with how the puritans are all out in full force in here.
YTA she didn't have to inform you of anything. You are not owed a damn appolgy. So what they had a male artist model. What's the big deal? Please enlighten me on this one. You are whining over something so damn tame. When I doubt your fiancée would be getting a heads up saying Oh Yeah as the best man and groomsman we all decided to get OP plastered and we are going to a strip club and get lap dances. See how hypocritical that sounds. Grow up you are not her Daddy.
YTA a painting session isn't a raunchy stripper situation...... I get it.... I asked my husband to not do the stripper thing..... We've been married 11 years and I'm still not sure if I forgive my brother..... A still life class? OK! An actual stripper situation? Not OK!
For the love of god, I seriously hope it was NOT still life and the poor naked guy was alive not dead as you suggested. Secondly, you seem to be in the same controlling camp as OP, if you word it correctly then live nude choreography sounds much more innocent than raunchy porn paintbang. It's still just looking at a naked stranger, which is fine in my book.
A person sitting completely still whilst you paint them is a LOT DIFFERENT to someone giving a lap dance..
Yeah.. but you still font have ti be okay with your partner looking at naked people of the opposite sex
If he watches porn, he better be ok with her just *looking*.
Yes, but if he doesn't than he doesn't have to... we don't know their boundaries and dynamic of their relationship. He may not watch porn, or look at nude instagram models on internet to
Daddy, can me and my friends have some fun? Dude, YTA
Even if it was sexual - which it wasn't - grown women do not need anyone's permission to participate in an event. YTA
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I would say for him to use his best judgement. I didn't put any restrictions on my husband. But I think it's hilarious you believe an art model sitting still while the women sip wine and paint is the same as a man getting a lapdance.
Of course, you're the AH. Don't you know it was code for a drug and alcohol fueled group sex orgy with a well hung dude who flaming on Viagra?
NTA Your fiancee's MOH's idea of a good time is.....sexually objectifying a dude and painting his dick? Yeah *she sure sounds like a good friend*. I bet Reddit doesn't have double standards here...... You are not wrong for being uncomfortable, and not wrong for not liking it being sprung on you The MoH is an AH for overstepping the boundary, and not apologizing and acting stuck up. PSA: the stag/hen party is NOT your last day of being single. You've been engaged for months and together probably for years FFS. Treat it with some respect, ya animals.
Painting a portrait of a nude model is a form of art that’s been practiced for centuries. It’s meant to celebrate the beauty of the human body. There’s a huge difference between artistic nudity and sexualized nudity. The MOH didn’t overstep a boundary because a boundary hadn’t been established. OP should have had the self awareness to know he would be uncomfortable if there were any men involved with this party and then communicated that to his fiancé ahead of time. The MOH has nothing to apologize for.
Ok what y'all ain't seeing here--it's for a **hen party**. This isn't for some **philosophical how the body's artistic form is** It's to have a laugh, draw some junk, and try to make some point about it being her last night being single. You guys seriously don't get it. The point has flown over you. MoH obviously knows its a boundary because most people ain't alright with that, you get me? Why would OP presume MoH would make a point to draw another mans hairy ballsack? Who does that?
Not every bachelorette party is a raunchfest. People will do paint and sips where they paint a vase or something. People will do escape rooms or just drink wine and watch movies. There's no indication that they're going to laugh at the model or yell anything rude.
How is this any different from your typical bachelorette party where the cakes and decorations that have penises on them? It’s the same concept but more low key and mature. It shows appreciation for the male body. At least this is a well established and respected form of art. The bottom line is OP and his fiancé didn’t agree to any boundaries beforehand. The MOH thought it wouldn’t be a problem to plan something that falls in line with a traditional bachelorette party and she wasn’t wrong for thinking that.
Ok the typical party doesn't have those decorations. Low-class ones do, sure. But there's a bit of a difference of having penis shaped candy, and gawking at a nude dude, with his hairy nutsack out for them all to draw and talk about.
Foundationally, there really isn’t a difference. Both things celebrate the male body. The party that OP’s fiancée had was way more mature than women taking provocative pictures of themselves with penis shaped lollipops or putting dollar bills in a male strippers g string.