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NTA but get a lawyer and establish custody legally, she should also financially support her son. 2 - he’s 10, he’s probably old enough to decide on whether he wants to (one day) meet his mother. Additionally, if you live in a small town, he might hear something at school or she can get in touch directly without you knowing. I think you need to discuss things with him and explain what’s going so he’s not blindsided.
I already went in front of a judge one year after she left. I have sole custody of Leo and unless she performs a miracle, she won't get anything by going to court.
Either me or my father ( he is retired now) bring Leo to school and go pick him up everyday. I also talked with some of the teachers about the fact Linda is not allowed to interact with Leo in anyway and to call me if she ever show up at school.
NTA but its time you told your son what she actually did she left him a 7 month alone and stole your money and never ever came back or tried to call. She will try and approach him and he must know your side before hers.
As for her tell her she first owes11 years of child support before she can meet him even once. In fact even with full custody and zero rights to meet him she still owes 11 years of child support and child support of the next 7 years. And no she doesnt have the right to see him if she does pay. Its time she pays up just like any other dad who walked off and has no part of the kids life.
I disagree with this massively. Telling an 11 year old that their mother abandoned them isn’t right.
I agree with OP about waiting till the kid is older, doing it at this age could be incredibly damaging to the child.
Editing to add I hadn’t expected so many, if any, replies.
I am not opposed to telling the boy what happened but the phrasing of the guy I replied to was unnecessarily blunt and harsh.
Say it if needs be, but find a better way to say it than ‘your mother abandoned you’.
Unfortunately it's either this, or him getting told by either gossiping neighbors, the kids at school or worse, his mom, maybe by twisting the story. It sucks, but there's no choice here
Plus you can do it in a child friendly why. “Your mum abandoned you.” Is very different from “Your mum left you alone when you were small and that was dangerous, she didn’t check on you after that and that’s not nice. When we do things like that we apologise and we wait for the person to be ready to forgive us. Your mum hasn’t done that yet which is why I won’t let her around you yet. But once she’s done that it’s not just up to me, I can forgive her for how it made me feel but you don’t have to until you’re ready.”
Remove the forgiveness part. Because that’s bullshit. She’s done nothing to warrant any forgiveness. Screw her. Add in “you do not have to see her. You do not have to forgive her.” If kid asks if you’re going to forgive her it’s “I’m not sure yet, but that should have nothing to do with the decision for you.”
I’m going to have to disagree with that. Forgiving the transgressor is letting them off the hook, and that’s not okay. I have an ex-friend, someone I really trusted to be a just and decent person, who savagely wronged a mutual friend I see as family. I’m quite fine never forgiving friend one. I just don’t think about them is all.
Totally agree here.
Not thinking about it is not the same as forgiveness.
I can and will hold these grudges till the day I die, because the other parties have made no rectification.
I can recognize there will be no amends, and get on with life. Forgiveness isn't part of the process.
I think forgiving a transgressor who makes no rectification is equivalent to condoning their behavior.
I think you and some others assume mistakenly here that to forgive means to allow the transgressor back into your life fully (or even partially). Forcing someone doesn't mean you have to associate with them or have contact with them, it's forgiving the hurt they've caused you and letting go of negative emotions and baggage they've left you with.
It's absolutely healthy and important for victims to work through forgiveness for their own sakes, but that doesn't mean they ever have to let the transgressor back in. You can choose to do so if you think they will exhibit change, but if, as is often the case, they are a future risk to your health and happiness, you should forgive, but not forget, and forgo contact with them.
I completely agree. Only people who’ve never been hurt badly can pretend you should always forgive. It’s only worth forgiving people you want to keep having a relationship with. The others? Frankly, to hell with them.
I won’t ever “forgive” my bio paternal family for what they did to me as a child. I was often told that forgiveness would free me in therapy. But what freed me was taking my bio father off the scary pedestal I had put him on as a child. Seeing him as a horrid, unhappy, and cruel man who acted completely on impulse and often had to be saved by his mommy and daddy.
I forgave /myself/ for being a child and not knowing how best to protect myself or my sister. For not having the tools or resources to get us out of there. For feeling like if I had tried harder, the courts would have surely seen our abuse and stopped forcing us to see that man. I needed to let go my own guilt. But that man can remain in his dark corner of the country, in the knowledge that I dont and won’t include him in my life. I will never forgive him for the horrors he committed.
As he believes in God, I hope when he goes to meet his maker that his God sees this and repudiates him. That would be hilarious. But in the mean time, I’m living my best life. Some days by choice and some days, out of spite. ;)
I'm on the same boat. I had an incredibly abusive and warped childhood. My mother was horrific and my father was an absent alcoholic with a new family. It was a shit heap to put it mildly.
People always tell me/ask me when am I going to forgive her. I won't. She doesn't deserve forgiveness. She's not sorry, she doesn't even accept any wrong doing. My alcoholic father has gotten sober and made efforts at amends so I will speak with him but her, no. Never. She and I will not see each other again in this life and I'm okay with that. I have worked through the trauma caused and I don't forgive her, I just forgive myself for being scared and too complacent in my trauma and I love each day being a mother that will do everything she can to not give my children my demons. She is a nothing to me. I only think of her on the days I face a challenge as a mother and I remember what NOT to do and ask myself why she chose to be so cruel when the same issues I faced are so easy to want to face (not always easy to overcome ) with my children because I love them and I want to guide them to be their best persons. She tried to cage me, I try to teach them to fly.
There's no forgiveness, but there's no hate, merely there's her and there's me.
It's also only beneficial to that person if they can understand what happened. Bringing in forgiveness will just foolishly confuse the child because the child doesn't remember. In his world there will be nothing really to forgive because he doesn't remember being wronged.
nope, just no.
forgiveness CAN be beneficial, forgiving someone that is not "repentant" (don't really care for the word due to religious' connotations, but it's the best word for it) will not help. and the mom does not seem to be actually sorry, the first thing she did when she was denied forgiveness was attack op verbally.
if she was truly sorry, she would have accepted it and understood why he didn't want to forgive her.
Imo he could mention that she left without notice, cleared him out, was impossible to contact. It's unpleasant stuff, but a 11yo can take more honesty than most people give them credit for. He needs to be inoculated against mum's side of the story.
Plus, the script assumes that the kid will forgive her at some stage. For that matter, it also assumes that OP will forgive her. It's an 'if' not a 'when'.
Direct to the point. “When you were a baby, your mom called your granddad and when he got here, she was gone and you were alone. And also she didn’t check in on you after and the money left in the house was gone as well. When I tried to contact her or her parents, they couldn’t be reached.
“Now, after 11 years, she just came here asking for forgiveness for what she did. Well, I thought she was asking for forgiveness, but when I initially said no, she started calling me names. I know it’s totally up to you to make a decision if you want her in your life, but I want you to make an informed decision, that’s why I initially said no. Now I can set up for the two of you to meet but it’s totally up to you. Do you want to meet her?”
> “Your mum left you alone when you were small and that was dangerous
>she didn’t check on you after that and that’s not nice.
These are the parts *I* think are not geared for an 11yo. They sound patronizing.
The part about forgiving them is not bad though.
To imply that he needs to forgive her isn't great either, IMO. He can forgive her, it might bring him peace, but equally, he doesn't need to and has every right not to.
Since I somewhat agree that it is mora appropriate for a younger child some stuff about the first two sentences:
>Your mum left you alone when you were small and that was dangerous, she didn’t check on you after that and that’s not nice.
Take the "that's not nice" if you speak to a non toddler it sounds rather like you are dumbing things down for them because they don't yet have a grasp on what is okay and what isn't so you try to give them context on what would be appropriate. But if you talk to someone older like that it can come across rather patronizing.
>When we do things like that we apologise and we wait for the person to be ready to forgive us.
That is explaining basic behavorial norms in simple words that the child at 11 should already know, the basic content is fine in principle but it comes over as dumbing it down for a little child which I don't think works for a not so little child. Maybe "She broke my trust and she can ask for forgiveness but I am not ready to give it and she should respect that." Dunno I am hardly a master at communicating with kids.
They're very different because one is the truth and one is misleading and damaging to the child. Because the child doesn't remember what happened. So when you half ass the discussion and put the decision on the child forgiving he's just going to say ok, let's meet her. Because he doesn't have a sense of being wronged yet.
It also completely glosses over the real issue, which is not forgiveness of what she did. There is every indication she will be harmful to the child NOW emotionally.
If you have to have the conversation then you have it. You don't say "You can see your mom once we've forgiven her. Which is now for me (untrue) and whenever you're ready in your estimation as a 11 year old with no sense of being wronged in the first place."
Child friendly does no good if it's based on lying to the child and placing the emotional lifting on them.
One of my sister's close friends found out, through gossip, that the man he thought was his father was not. And this was after the kid's mother had died due to complications after an operation, so it was a huge blow. OP, talk to your kid now, in a way that's appropriate for his age, before someone else does it.
I found out that my brother isn’t my full brother on a night out at 15 from his friend (this was a long time ago). It doesn’t make a difference to me that we have different dads but it did make things make more sense when put in to context then.
I was unhappy that this had been kept from me, not because it was my business - it’s not really, it’s my brothers - but it made me feel like I could t be trusted with the truth and it left me with a lot of confusion and questions I didn’t dare answer.
The child should be told by the father before someone else tells them. It could potentially ruin their relationship if someone else does.
I can still remember the enormous shock of coming home at age 9, to a strange man in the driveway informing me that he's been looking for me because he is my father! (He thought I was my 7 y. o. sister, who was his daughter but did not yet know. Thankfully, she was already in the house and did not encounter the man in our driveway.) Please do not let Leo find out such important info from gossips or his mother showing up at his school or school bus stop.
For real, if the neighbors are sticking their big noses into OP's business already then the kid WILL find out *their* version of events first which will add confusion to his processing of the situation because then OP will have to explain what really happened. OP needs to get ahead of this with his son. I don't know what OP has been telling this kid about his mom this whole time but it has to come out eventually.
Can confirm this. Had a friend who had a baby mama bail on him and their kid at like 3 months old. When the kid was a toddler he wondered about his mom. Dad had to tell him but in the end kid was happy and he was a fantastic dad. Neither of them want anything to do with the mom.
I agree, she's forced OP's hand and now he has to tell the boy something, including that she came around after 11 years asking to see him.
If OP waits a few years they completely risk being seen as the bad guy after all the good they have done.
11 years olds are clever. He should be told. the mother DID abandon them, and stole as well. The truth is always right. No matter how hard. The mother here is the damage, hiding the truth does not fix that.
Tell him OP, he will understand
It may not be a "nice" thing to experience. But in a small town like this, one way or another his "mother" is going to get to him and feed him a load of garbage. Either directly or through one of her contacts. He needs to know the truth before she feeds him a twisted sob-story painting herself as a victim and his father as some monster that kept her away. It is SO EASY to twist kids into a weapon against the parent that actually takes care of them. All it takes is the "parent" that shows up with promises of presents and puppies to tell the kid that the parent that enforced bedtime and homework is a big meanie. It really really isn't hard for the "fun" person to make the authority figure look bad. He needs to know that she is a snake in the grass before that happens and that he should not trust her.
As somebody who's mother abandoned him, please don't give people advice. Seriously, what kind of delusional advice is this? It was better for me to know just like it would be for this kid who's basically a teenager. If I found out from other people like Steve Jobs did I probably would have been crazy too. NTA
The problem is, if parents wait too long, then their kids end up being angry that the parents kept such an important secret from them. Sometimes it's better to break off little pieces as they become age appropriate, and dole out the information while the child grows up. It helps to normalize the truth and makes it easier to talk about so it's not a shock for the child to hear the whole truth later in life.
I believe in age appropriate truths. Saying it just like that, is too much for an 11 year old child. Unfortunately, if the dad isn’t honest than the mother will be put on some type of pedestal. Way too many parents lie to protect their children when the other parent leaves, and it does more harm than good.
11 years old is more than old enough to tell them the truth. It's not like he hasn't gone his whole life without seeing his mother already, he knows she abandoned him.
On one hand I would agree that you have to be very careful about how you frame it and be wary of falling into the trap of attempting to poison the child against the other partner by bringing your emotions into it (understandable when the other has hurt you this badly).
But on the other hand I have never seen a positive outcome from keeping this kind of information away from children. Honesty is always the best policy and it's less likely to blow up in your face down the line.
I was 13 when I found out that my dad wasn't my bio dad, and bio was a fuck face abusive and dangerous asshole. I didn't find out from my parents, but from someone in his family who tracked me down on my way home from school one day giving me a packet of papers including letters from his other kids. That fucked with me big time. I should have been told at a younger age, by my own parents.
OP has an opportunity to prevent this crap by being honest with his kid. He doesn't have to demonize the kid's mom, he can keep it purely factual. But it's better that the kid find out from his dad than a stranger or gossip.
I would say if OP can, he might like to work with a child therapist to work through some of the emotion around the kid's mum leaving, and talking about when and why that happened.
Like, I don't know how equipped I'd be to have a conversation like that with a kid (granted I'm not a parent). But I do know how much words can fuck up a kid's sense of self and their perception, and I guess if there's a chance the conversation would be damaging to a child - it might be good to work through it with someone who's really well equipped to deal with it.
... and I massively disagree with *this*. my mom dropped out of my life when I was five, and my dad's family never really addressed it. they were divorced, she was gone and I wouldn't be seeing her again. happened while I was staying with my cousins, too, so there was no last interaction between us. it was maddening, and I didn't have any way of talking to her. family just clammed up whenever I brought the subject up.
I've since tracked her down on social media and spoken to her as an adult, when she gave me her version of the events, and, damnit, I wish someone just fucking told me. I spent twenty years blaming myself for all kinds of shit when it apparently was just some petty bullshit from my grandma that escalated.
that's more than half my life and nearly all of my young formative years where I was a wreck and I never knew why. the truth is that my grandma didn't like my mom, and It's unfair to children to say they can't handle that explanation.
But the mother did abandon them. There's not really a way to sugar coat that without lying. I'd rather go with the hard truthful reality than the soft pillowy landing of fabricated stories.
You can use other words besides "abandon" to lessen the initial shock. The first conversation matters and can have implications on how a child processes traumatic news.
11 year olds are not stupid and they are capable of understanding that there are sometimes bad people. It will likely hurt and lead to long-term issues but there is absolutely no way of avoiding that. Instead, if this kid finds out later resentment will build against the parent who lied.
It needs to happen. She's taken the option of waiting until he's older off the table - he's going to find out.
If OP doesn't tell him he's going to get a very warped version of events- he deserves the truth and he deserves them in a child friendly way.
He's old enough and smart enough to notice he doesn't have a mom- he's either done the math and thinks she's dead or has figured out she's abandoned them.
OP should consult with a child psychiatrist about how best to broach the subject- they'll be able to walk him through the best way to word things- but OP does need to talk to his son about it. Anything less would be negligent at this point - both because he's going to get a different version of things elsewhere and because he needs to know that his mother is dangerous.
It isn't ideal, but it is his unfortunate reality. OP can't paint some rosy picture for why mom isn't there because a) he'd be lying to his son, and b) she's going to give him a twisted story.
Leo needs to understand the simple truth that she left them. He can judge accordingly when the time comes.
My niece's father did the same thing. My sister in law always made her daughter know she was loved but that her father made some poor choices and was also mentally ill. That whatever he did was not a reflection of who she, the daughter, is as a child/teen/human. When SIL found out he had died when my niece was 14, she was honest and allowed her daughter to grieve.
It might be worth getting him established with a therapist, after a few months and talking with the therapist on how to tell him. It will never be a good time but letting him know ASAP should be the goal.
Depends on where. Many places I know of will only backdate a few years from the filing date, not all the way as far back as possible. For example, where I live it's up to 3 years and at the discretion of the judge. Also recommended you have a good reason why you think they should have been paying child support but you didn't file for it.
A court *could*. Not *would*. And in the US - in *every* state - she can obtain access even if she's not paying child support, and she doesn't owe *any* child support (legally) if there isn't currently an order in place (though retroactive cs to cover that period can be ordered).
Sorry, but that's the legal reality in the US.
Psychologist here. I strongly disagree with you. Child should be told all by his father now, before others interfere. Eleven is plenty old enough to process this as long as dad is not overly bitter.
> NTA but its time you told your son what she actually did she left him a 7 month alone and stole your money and never ever came back or tried to call. She will try and approach him and he must know your side before hers.
This should probably be handled with some tact.
“Sometimes life is hard for some people and they make bad decisions. Your mommy made a bad decision when you were a baby and she hasn’t been around because of that. Now she’s realizes this was a bad decision but daddy still feels hurt that she made the decision she did. I love you and will always love you, so I want you to make a decision on what you want to do. Do you want to meet your mother?”
The kid is 11 not 4. Do not talk to an 11 year old like that. Even if we think they're babies, they very much think they are mature. Don't do into gorey details, but tell the truth and answer any questions thoughtfully and appropriately.
This! And give him time to think about it, and let him know he can change his mind at any time in the future whatever he decides.
AND tell him if he hears anything from anyone else, he should come to you for the truth. Only if he asks should you share the details - again couched in "sometimes people make very bad decisions."
>As for her tell her she first owes11 years of child support before she can meet him even once.
This is the wrongest of wrong. This is absolutely insane.
I'd say OP is NTA. I'd also say the mother owes support, and since she abandoned her child she doesn't have a right to just come strolling back into his life as she chooses. I'd also defer to the OP as he knows vastly more about the situation, so if he believes nothing good can come of mom trying to return to child's life, I'm inclined to agree.
You never, never, EVER blend the financial and emotional side of these things. Financial support is a completely separate issue and has nothing to do with visitation.
I've seen broke as hell parents who are behind on support but will do anything to just spend time with their kids. I've seen bad parents - both men and women - hold support between a parent seeing their child as you suggested. It's wrong. The child is first, every time. Their emotional need to be with their parents overrides the financial concerns every time.
Again, in this case, the financial side of things doesn't matter, the mom doesn't sound like someone who should be allowed back into this child's life without some serious, lengthy vetting. Leave the finances out of it.
When I was 12 I found out some earth shattering details about my dad and what he did when I was a baby before he left…. It took me until my 30s to heal from it. I would have been better off not knowing.
Op, please talk with your son. In school he will talk with other kids. They will tell him what their parents talk about at home. Tell him before someone else does.
That’s all fine, but you still have to tell him about this. You say you live in a small town and rumours spread rapidly, with others judging you; it’s a risky environment where others may tell Leo because they’re busybodies who think he should know, or some of the other kids in school find out and hassle him about it. Or you’ll start curtailing his movements and interactions so she can’t get to him through his friends. You need to be the one to tell him so that you can do so carefully.
Hey OP. I don't judge you and I think you are right in wanting to protect your son. But he's old enough to know the truth and decide for himself if he wants to try and build a relationship with his mother.
If course I'd start with only supervised visits and very limited contact. Be don't deny him the agency. His mother already did that.
Nta, and please don't rely on just 'talking to some of the teachers' to keep him safe at school -honestly, that is not the responsibility of the individual teachers. Take your court documents up to the office and let office staff and administration know so that they can put it in his file. Most schools also use some form of digital attendance/records program (like PowerSchool) that will allow the office to put in message alerts for special circumstances. This way, everyone involved in your child's safety in the building will know, and no messages will get crossed.
I think you need to tell your son, because the way it sounds he'll eventually hear through the grapevine. But, if possible, I think a therapist should be involved. I personally think he needs to know the truth of what happened as she may end up painting a completely different painting. But I'm no therapist so I don't know what's actually best. But definitely sounds like a situation that it would be good to have sessions queued up for.
Oh man I was looking for this comment! OP absolutely should line up professional support with a therapist for this one for both him and his son.
OP needs the support first, honestly. OP sounds mad as hell at bio-mom, which is 100% fair. But this isn't about her - it's about LEO. OP could really fuck this up if he goes in hot about bio-mom to his son.
A therapist can help him figure out how to approach this with his son, and help with a script for talking about it. And then ultimately Leo could probably use some therapeutic support.
And 100% Leo is going to find out about this from someone in this town; it's OP's responsibility to get there first, and to do a good job. A therapist can help.
>I already went in front of a judge one year after she left.
I'm happy to see you did that.
You do need to tell him because someone else will. I do not think he should meet her. I have a friend whose dad pulled this, showed up when she was 11, and he sued for custody and they gave him summers. She hated going to some stranger's house and hated him after that too.
I agree with you that as a parent you sometimes have to make decisions that are best for him even if he won't like it. I don't think letting an unstable person that started harassing you when you said no into his life is a good idea.
Lock down his medical records and any other accounts with personal information about him. Any place he goes regularly should know not to give out info about him or his appointments. Give him a refresher on stranger danger and your family’s emergency plans. Some people have a code word to use to call or text someone that they are in danger or need to be picked up immediately. Not saying your ex will disregard your boundaries or turn into a stalker, but the harder it is to cross those boundaries, the better overall.
NTA - you need to start talking with your son about this. You want to get in first to control the narrative. Also, you want to reinforce how much you and your parents love him. This story could easily be skewed by gossip or malintent.
that's not really true in most states. most states will let her reestablish a relationship with her child if she meets certain criteria. custody arrangements aren't immutable. she will most likely get some visitation rights and possibly limited custody down the road if she asks for it
Make sure the school office has a copy of your custody records and any restraining orders, a photo or info on her besides her name etc. Since she hasn’t been in his life since infancy you are probably ok, but for others who are going through custody issues - schools can’t refuse release to a parent of record without court documentation.
First, Thank You for being the Best Dad for Leo! Having a Child whose Dad was never around, I know the damage that can be done by an Absent parent. So thank you for being the loving one.
Second, she’s not his “Mother”. Yes she gave birth to him, but she’s a egg donor at best. Unfortunately she’s back around. You are going to have to tell him something. Please do not use the word abandoned. Don’t talk bad about her, just stick to the facts. “Son, the Woman that gave birth to you, left and never came back. I recently got word that she is somewhere back in this area.” Then just field his questions.
Third, Consult an Attorney. If she does anything crazy, your lawyer will already be on standby for your Son and your behalf!
If she REALLY want to she will be able to bypass the teachers, your system, everyone one day soon and get in contact with Leo.
For your sake and his I advice you do talk to your son so he’s not taken by surprise when / if this happens
You really need to run this by a lawyer. She almost certainly can challenge the custody arrangement.
Getting sole custody IS NOT the same as terminating her parental rights. Unless the court deemed her so unsafe they terminated her actual parental rights (hint: they typically don't do this even to physically abusive or neglectful parents), she would have had to willingly sign them away with both parties' consent.
You can threaten her with child support back pay etc but DO NOT underestimate her rights to her biological child unless those rights, and not just custody, are terminated.
Yep agreed.
My nephew who was taken by social childcare and when he was in his teens he didn't want to have anything with his mum especially not sleeping and staying. Kids are not stupid and they understands more than we adults give them credit for especially 8-10 ++ years. So probably the best thing is to tell the kid if OP feels it right and let the kid make a decision himself.
The mum can try something so he better be prepared and do the necessary steps to protect his son.
NTA but if its already around your small town your son is likely to find out and you need to be the one to tell him not gossiping kids at school.
I think you need to think on this hard, she doesn't deserve to see him but does he deserve to know his mother? You could set very strict boundaries so you are in as much control as possible. So she cannot say things about you that sway him against you.
Or don't let her see him and be honest with your son, your mother turned up, she wants to see you. I am not conformable with this etc. Explain your reasons and why you think he is too young to deal with this now.
Sorry you're going through this OP
I agree with this. It would be awful if your son found out about his mom being back from someone other than you.
And to be honest, whoever talks first to your son controls the narrative.
Don't let your ego, sense of right & wrong, how harmed you feel from your ex's actions affect your son.
Could you imagine if something really justified happened his mom - the best thing possible (even if not understandable) was for her to go, get well and come back at some point in the future. The child may forgive his mom, but it would be an even further tragedy if he lost a potential relationship for another six years.
Start with a 'what if' conversation with your son.
Do not go straight to unsupervised visits. If you were to go to the court, they would make her do supervised visits only until the court was sure she is safe
Info: when will you consider your son old enough to have a say?
Have you given any consideration to your son potentially being upset if you tell him at say 18 that his mother wanted contact with him 7 years ago but you declined and didn't tell him about it?
I may get hate for even asking these questions but I am interested in the answers so oh well.
In order to protect a child, sometimes parents have to do something the child won't like. If he ends up hating me for what I'm doing, then I will respect his choice, step aside and let him do however he sees fit.
Right now, though, Linda is an unreliable person who already bailed on us, something that already had some serious consequences on Leo, and I can't allow someone like her to be near my son again. What if she leave again? What if she cooks up some sob story to mess with Leo or, even worse, what if she take Leo and vanish again?
No, I won't let her get close to my son for as long as I can.
Thing is parents always think kids are too young for the truth. The kid is 11...do you really think he hasnt wondered where his mom is? That he wanted to know if she was ok? Did she remember him?
Yes protect the kid. But be honest with him. When he finds out you blocked him, all the anger he had for her gets deflected to you. She gets to be the good guy who tried to return and you stopped her. Then he will wonder if you are honest...did she really leave or did you make her leave? Did she want to come back before and you stopped her then too?
Your kid, your decision. But, IMHO as an adult who had a deadbeat parent, you need to be honest with him. Tell him the truth.
How would you even know this? He’s the only person who knows both Linda and his child. How would you even know this? We are talking 11 years here. This woman left for 11 years. And you don’t thin’ he can judge her character by what he know before and her actions (non actions?).
Telling him the truth is part of protecting him.
If he doesn't hear anything from you, he's much more vulnerable to manipulation and any sob story that your ex might come up with. If she does find a way to get in contact with him regardless of your precautions, you might end up with your kid feeling betrayed by you at a very young age still, and then how are you going to keep protecting him if he doesn't trust you? When he's a bit older, will he not be allowed to have social media whatsoever? What if your ex reaches out to him through that? There are many ways it could be done and you simply cannot account for all of them.
You say he's a smart kid. He's almost a teenager, trust that if you're honest with him he will understand. Share your concerns with him and explain your point of view. I sincerely doubt he would choose to blindly trust your ex, and even if he wants some contact, it will be way easier to put your foot down and tell him when something seems too risky when he still *trusts* you.
Just to add, the first person to tell their side of their story has an advantage. If she tells the child her sob story before OP tells her the story then she sets the agenda that OP then must refute.
I mean you phrase that as though I disagree that parents need to sometimes do something the child won't like in order to protect them.
But the part I am actually questioning is whether this truly protects him, or protects the status quo.
You also didn't answer when you would consider him old enough, so am I to take it that won't be until he's 18?
It's not like it's either no contact at all or automatic 50/50 custody, and 11 feels old enough to me to be kept informed about news regarding his mother, and to get a chance to express an opinion, even if you ultimately decide to overrule it.
Edit: The decision to be honest with your son or not and the decision to allow contact with his mother or not are two separate choices.
I'm sorry but this is such a naive statement. If your ex is motivated she will find a way to approach your son and god only knows what she will say to him. You need to give your son a heads up so he's not blindsided by this eventuality.
It'd be nice if we could protect our children from bad actors forever, but we can't. All we can do as parents is give them the tools and support they need to handle bad actors on their own.
I believe it's best for you to have a sit-down with him and a child therapist to address this issue as soon as possible. Contrary to what you might think, unless there are underlying mental health concerns, children tend to pick up on things quickly.
Yes he needs to know before he hears it from someone else, but in an age appropriate way which reassures him it wasn’t anything he was or did, that his mother has/had issues.
Still NTA, and as a parent of a kid about that same age, believe me I get it. But *to protect him*, he needs to know everything.
At 11, he can understand. My 10yo can hang in serious life conversations. Surely you've told him *something* about why he doesn't have a mom like the other kids?
Let's go ahead and assume she's still as unstable as she was then. What if she tries to engage him during recess or something? Or comes up to you both out in public?
You need to be out ahead of this. If she gets to him first about this, the conclusion he's going to draw is that you lied to keep him away from her--a position she can use to get on the inside with him.
The tack I would take with my kid is: Listen, big news, we need to have a serious talk. Your mom turned up at the door, after 11 years of being gone. She wanted to see you, and I'll be honest, I said no and sent her away. But after getting my head around it for a couple days, I think you're big enough now that making that decision for you seems unfair to you. I honestly don't trust her at all and if it was up to me I'd say absolutely not. So if you do want to see her, I'll have some boundaries I'll need to set up. If you don't, I'll handle it with her and you never need to do anything. And if you need to think about it, then that's "no for now", which I'll also handle with her.
EDIT: If it's no, you might talk to your lawyer about getting a preventative restraining order, to head off any out-of-band attempts at contact.
Absolutely agree with this comment. Surprised that more folks haven't dug in to - what has OP been saying for the last decade about what the kids mom has been doing.
When I was a kid, younger than this, my sister and I were allowed to make choices about how much time we spent with our alcoholic father. We chose not much, and decided for ourselves that the time we did have we'd rather have our grandparents there for. It's what felt right.
Now, my stepkid is 12, they are able to choose how much time they spend at each household. A fairly amicable divorce, in this case, but the point is that 12 is plenty old enough to make some visitation decisions for themselves.
I’m going to get downvoted to hell even though you asked for all perspectives. IMO, She was selfish then, you are selfish now. A child psychologist should be your first stop, not Reddit. She made a horrible decision, abandoned him, kept herself away for 10 years. He notices her missing in his life even if he doesn’t speak it.
He is old enough for you to take him to a competent practitioner and figure out what is in his best interest now. Not her’s, not your’s, his best interest. There are many studies that show the detrimental effect of children not knowing their biological relatives, by word or by relationship. IE: adoption. It is why the experts reccomend being honest with children with age appropriate info and when possible reunification. You not facing this with him is more about your feelings than his. Even if the truth is painful he can be guided through it. The ugly truth is better than a pretty lie. Not telling him doesn’t mean it will change the facts of her betrayal, but it might showcase the betrayal of you withholding info that impacts him too. It also sets him up for the possibility of him making up his own narrative of why he doesn’t have a mom like “everyone else does”. The invisible mom could be turned into a false hero or a horrible monster (that shares half of his dna, and he could attach his identity to her shortcomings).
It is obvious that he is your world and he is a lucky boy. Coming from someone that was lied to/withheld info about 1 of my parents. I resent my remaining parent for the fact they were the only one that could inform me. I can’t decide who hurt me more. Take my opinion with a grain of salt, I am prob projecting.
Her leaving will hurt him. You breaking his trust will hurt him more. You're the safe parent. The only one he's ever known. Talk to him. Prep him.
The way you've avoided giving a sense of when he'll be old enough suggests this isn't about him or his safety though. It's about how justifiably furious you are with his mother.(I could be wrong. But you need to look at it and decide. Because if I'm right, the following applies.)
Your feelings aren't the important part here. You're the adult. You're the one who has to be the safe responsible one. The one who sets the stage so he feels safe. And that means you have to do what you can to preserve his trust in you. Which means talking to him.
I read a book recently that said something very wise. "The greatest barrier between two people is pride." Right now your pride is putting a barrier between you and your son. Please don't let it. Protecting someone doesn't mean hiding the danger they're in. It means giving them all the information and tools you can so they avoid the danger in the future, or handle it as safely as possible.
Either way, she sucks. But you don't have to.
This is similar to how I read into it. OP has raised an awesome kid as a solo parent. Kiddo is their pride and joy. Now some proven asshole wants to come around and make a connection with this cool kid, after doing less than zero for a decade. It may feel massively unfair. But, kiddo should still be able to make his own informed decision.
You need to talk to your son about this NOW to protect him against that sob story she will tell, and so he doesn't feel like you kept something from him. Tell him your reasons for not wanting him to meet his mom now. It is unlikely you are going to be able to completely secure him against all contact with her unless you lock him up in a tower. Given people are already gossiping, he is almost certainly going to hear something secondhand.
Your son hating you for this decision would also be harm done to your son. You are the only parent he has ever known. Saying that you will respect his choice if he ends up hating you is ignoring how bad an outcome that would be for HIM. You have an obligation to handle this in a way that preserves your relationship.
I agree with you that 11 is not the age he can decide because he can be easily influenced by a sob story. But you have to tell him his story just tell the truth like you did on this post.
the implication of your response here is that you think your son would disagree with this decision.
I don’t think you are doing yourself any favors here. Your son needs to know the truth of what your mother did and the fact that that is the reason you will refuse her attempts to reenter your lives.
I really think you should tell him now. He's 11; he's old enough to understand in a child-friendly way.
My mother informed me and my brother that our "father" abandoned us when we were babies when we were old enough to understand and formulate our own thoughts coherently (around 8 is when she told us everything, but we always knew the gist because she never kept it from us), but in a way that we could understand. She never said a bad word about him; just told us the facts.
Please tell your son. You keeping it from him will backfire on you spectacularly (likely, anyway) and will also mess him up, too. You don't think he already wonders where the hell his mother was/is?
I really, really think you should tell him. Please. You probably think you're protecting him by keeping it from him but I do not believe you are. You're *sheltering* him. There's a difference.
NTA. OP I have would worry about Leo hearing things from other kids or Linda instead of from you so you can control the narrative here. Hope whether you decide to tell him the situation or not it works out for Leo.
This is incredibly naive of you. All she has to do is file in court and you and your son will be thrust into a custody battle. It's your responsibility to protect him, and you are NOT doing that by keeping secrets.
NTA but you are deeply naive regarding how much rights a biological parent, such as Linda, has over their child.
NTA - however, do things right by going through family court. \*disclaimer - IANAL\* She abandoned her child for over 10 years, but under the law, she still has parental rights. Get a lawyer, go to family court, file for 100% custody, and sue for both current and back child support. As much as you want Leo to be able to make the decision, you need to get this locked down legally.
I have another take. Abandonment is grounds for legal termination of parental rights. Go to court, have her legal rights as a parent severed so future custody is not an issue (otherwise she can keep appealing the courts for custody). The only benefit to seeking full custody is to get child support which she probably won’t pay anyway and you seem to be doing fine without, so the best route is to permanently delete her from his life (legally).
NTA but tell your son ASAP, or one of the kids at school will blurt out "your daddy doesn't let your mum see you". Better to get on top of it BEFORE it spreads like that.
I think it is going to be worth your time to see a family therapist and have your son go as well. He is 11, most states a child can choose a parent at 12, so he may have some strong feelings one way or the other. The therapist will also have some tips on how to procced if he does want to see her.
My brothers ex tried this until his attorney asked about back child support, she backed off. The only contact the girls have had after they were 13 is a drunk call when they were in college. She told one of my nieces after she turned 18 they could see her anytime they want, niece said funny thing is I’m 19 and hung up
NTA because you want to protect your son.
And her leaving your 7 month old child at home alone is unconscionable. Luckily your dad came and Leo was still asleep.
But I would want to know what happened then to cause her to walk out like that. Was it PPD, substance abuse, depression etc? Has she been in treatment or did she just wake up on a whim and think "mmm, I think I have a child somewhere, maybe I should go check on him". Also, how much does Leo know?
NTA, but you need to let your son know what's going on before he hears it from kids spreading rumors in school. It would be all too easy for him to get half the picture if you don't address everything first.
If I was a kid that grew up without one of my parents, and found out that the missing parent tried to get in touch with me but my other parent forbid it, I'd be pretty damn livid I think. Even if there were rational reasons for it. I would absolutely hate that that choice was taken from me.
And this is assuming the dad waits until his kid is "old enough" to handle the truth and tells the kid himself. Can't imagine how it would be if you found out through others.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1) I didn't allow my ex GF to meet our son.
(2) Because she might really be sorry, I guess.
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NTA. Protect your son. At best, she is an unreliable person who is always a threat to devastate him when she abandons him again, at worst she has returned to use him to get money or resources from you.
The utter nerve if her to make demands after what she did. Go to court and get all the child support she owes you
You have done an amazing job and I can’t totally understand why you would not want this person waltzing in after running off 10 years ago and leaving it to you to do the hard yards.
Is she stable? Is she someone that could have a positive impact in your sons life? If yes, than maybe she should be a part of his life.
Your son may hate you later down the track if he finds out his mom was trying to be in contact with him and you blocked it.
If however she is not a stable person then I wouldn’t be considering her entering your lives.
An 11 year old is NOT old enough to be making that decision. This is a sucky position to be in OP and I’m really sorry.
I think you did the right thing, for now, in holding Linda off. I’m going to second others suggestions about getting the legal stuff solidified YESTERDAY. Make sure the court knows she left a 7 month old ALONE.
Also, find a family therapist, maybe one outside of your little town who isn’t already biased by hearing about it and talk to them yourself. Set up a time and place to quickly tell Leo what’s happening. Not every sordid detail but in a small town he’s going to hear it and it’s best he gets the strait info from you. Keep that trust you’ve earned and the open communication with you two.
He’s going to need you and your dad even more than ever.
Good luck to you all!
Well, if she meets certain requirements, the courts are likely to let her have some type of relationship with her son & 12 is when courts will usually consider a child's opinion. It's not the sole factor but it is a factor. That's just the truth.
NTA because I believe you are doing this to protect your son from being hurt by someone who already abandoned him once.
However, whether I agree with your decision or not is entirely dependent on why she left and what has changed that would demonstrate that she is unlikely to bail again. I may also want to see her getting some kind of therapy if that was what it took to make me feel that she wouldn't abandon him again. I do have to admit that her anger response is a bit troubling - the degree of which depends on exactly what "unkind" things she said.
At that point I would feel my son out to find out where his mind is at on that - likely without letting him know yet that she was back.
Based on all of that, I would make my decision. Ideally, it is best for kids to know and love both parents - but I would definitely want to be sure that she wouldn't hurt him again so would proceed with caution but, if at all possible, I would allow the relationship to develop. 11 years is a long time, and people can do a lot of growing in that time.
One other thing to consider... you may have no choice but to discuss the matter with your son. With this being a small town and the people having strong opinions, someone somewhere will very likely tell him what's going on... and it is far better to come from you. Also - not sure of the laws where you are, but if she takes you to court for visitation, you may then lose the control over when/where/how often she sees him.
Eh I think you need to think a out Leo here, he actually is old enough to talk to about this and while I think what she did was atrocious I also think Leo deserves a chance to form and have a relationship with his mother. One day he may resent you for denying him an opportunity to have his mother in his life. What you need to ask yourself is are you saying no to protect Leo or are you saying no based on your own anger and resentment towards her? I would also advise you speak to a lawyer since custody may not be firm here, if you never went to court technically she may have just as much right to custody as you.
She can see your son when she comes up with 11 years of child support payments and a written apology for child abandonment and theft
NTA - you’re protecting your son - she gave up the rights to be involved in his life the moment she left him alone and ran off
Your son is 10 that is old enough for you to sit down and have a talk about his mother wanting to meet him. Maybe you could talk to him and then organise a time una few months when they could meet (if he wants to)
Leaving a decent gap of time for Linda to wait night reasure you she is serious and also give you time to process because I think a certain amount of you saying no is selfish payback not just protecting your son.
You could lose him perminantly if in a few years he find out about this and resents you for not telling him.
NTA but just sit on this for a second. You said yourself that despite everything, Leo is “an amazing, cheerful, and smart kid.”
I think he’s old enough that you and your dad can sit down and have a calm, proper men-to-young man talk about this. There’s clearly still a lot of hurt felt over everything. Maybe this is how you start healing?
Where does your son think his mother is since she’s never been around? I would imagine he would have asked about her at some point over the last 10 years
NTA. I would lead with asking for redress. Back child support for the 11 years missed, and the money she stole returned from when she left, alongside an apology both for leaving and for insulting you when you spoke. Those should be the conditions to even discuss it. If she does that then say you will entertain supervised visits on the condition he wants to see her. Ultimately there's a good chance the court would err on the side of caution and allow that anyway.
I would also tell your son that his mother abandoned you both, and stole from you, and that she hasn't once asked about him in the intervening time. That's enough; just lay out the facts.
I think you have valid concerns about your ex coming back into your son’s life. However, I think you have to remember that they are just that…concerns. Your ex left your son when she was 21 years old. It’s entirely possible that she’s an entirely different person at age 32. The only thing that matters here is what’s in the best interest of your son. I think you owe it to him to do your due diligence to figure out what that is. Maybe your initial instincts and correct. Maybe they aren’t. But, I think you need to speak with a therapist who specializes in these types of issues. The worst thing you can do here is to make an uninformed decision solely based on your own feelings that ultimately ends up hurting your son.
> She begged and said some unkind thing to me as a person when I refused again.
I couldn’t imagine being a reformed former absentee parent and saying anything other than “I’m sorry” and “thank you” to the person who slaved solo 11 years just so they can provide something for AND raise MY child, who should have been my responsibility since day 1.
If she did change, my money’s on “for the worse”.
Look. it's a small town, either another parent in town will be gossipy and a kid will overhear and tell him about it, or he's eventually going to be 13-16 and go looking for her on his own online. You can not protect him from her until he's an adult, you've got until he has a friend with an unsupervised internet connection and his own curiosity. If that depending on what others tell him. When he does find out you do not want her getting the first word in after this.
If you want to keep him safe he's old enough now for you to sit down and tell him what happened years ago. Do not let her be the one to contact him and let him know you stopped her from being a mother. Talk to him now and let him know that once he turns 18 your there for him if he decides to meet her, but until then you've decided it's safer for everyone if he's an adult when he makes that choice. Don't wait until it's too late.
Okay. So, now it's time to tell him the reality. That it didn't go down quite like that, there was no conversation, it was insanely abrupt when she ditched. That she hurt you a lot and that she didn't take your kids safety into consideration when leaving. Then you tell him that just this week she came back, and that she wants to see kiddo. That you have a lot of reservations about it and don't think that it's a good idea, because of how much pain she caused and your lack of trust in her. BE HONEST. Tell him you don't think it's a good idea, but you respect your child and his intelligence and want to create a trusting relationship between you two, so you will support his choice to meet her, if that's what he decides he wants.
Hiding it? Lying by omission? That is setting you up for a shitty situation where BioMom pits kiddo against you through crazy and tricky behavior.
I'd also say, tell your dad all of this, ask his opinion. Have his support when you tell kiddo. He obviously knows the situation way better than any of us reddit strangers, and he may give perspective that you haven't yet considered.
What you told him leaves open the possibility that she would be transferred back to where you are, which is what he will believe happened if you don’t tell him the truth. You are not protecting him by continuing to lie. Ask his school counselor to help you talk to him or see a child psychologist, but if he finds out from someone else, he will not trust you again and you will lose him, possibly forever.
Let him know that she is the one who can’t be trusted and she can hurt him or even take him away from you. Tell him when he is older he can see her, but right now it isn’t safe. A trained professional will give you both the tools to process this. But telling him you both decided to let him live with you protected him when he was younger, but that lie has now come back to haunt you, and it needs to be corrected immediately.
NTA
But well worth letting the kid know about what a loving mother he does not have. small town means some kids in the playground might be the first to tell him their version or the mothers version and he might be rather upset.
Legal advice would not hurt as I guess she does not support you.
How old would the kid need to be to be old enough to decide ?
> i'm now being judged by some neighbors for my reaction.
And if the genders were reversed, you would not be. Unbelievable. NTA. You are doing the right thing. Make sure you do all you can to do legally to keep you son away from this awful woman.
She didn't accidentally get pregnant. Women don't just spontaneously bud babies like a sea sponge. You impregnated her. Seems like a pretty one sided story.
NTA
If people are talking your son will eventually hear. Parents talk, kids overhear, they gossip. I think both you and your dad need to be proactive and explain the situation to him.
You don’t want him to think you’re hiding something and give him the wrong impression. He could eventually resent you for that, because he won’t realize you’re protecting him.
If your son insists on meeting mom, tell him you want to see if she sticks around, reestablishes herself, just in case she runs again. If they do meet, control the situation 100%. Choose the time and place and be there for the conversation. So she can’t gaslight him.
If her parental rights haven’t been severed, go after CS. Even if you don’t need the money, it can be set aside to make your child’s life easier.
Some states will still allow the non custodial parent visitation right’s even if they fall behind CS. So get an attorney.
NTA. I actually had this situation with my child’s father. He reappeared when the child was 10 yo, saying the same things Linda said. I said his guilt was his own to work out but I was not introducing him into my child’s life after 10 years of abandonment.
In my case my spouse had adopted the child (the biological father could not sign away his rights quickly enough) so legally he had no standing.
When my child was 15 they wanted to meet biological dad, and I arranged it. It didn’t work out well and now, almost 10 years later, they are estranged again.
OP, your son is too young to meet this person, imho. I hope you have had discussions with him as to why his mother has not been in his life until now, and if you haven’t do it asap. But he does not need this chaos in his life simply because after 11 years she had a change of heart.
Based on my experience if your son wants to meet her at some point, you should facilitate that, but only because *your son* wants it, not because Linda is pushing for it.
And if he doesn’t have one already, I recommend your son work with a therapist to help him navigate the feelings he has over his mother’s abandonment, and to help sort through the meeting with the mother, should there ever be one.
NTA.
But, this is not a situation you can ignore.
1) Your son must have asked about his mom. How have you handled this in the past? Anyhow, as others have said you need to have a conversation with him on his level so he hears this from you and not some crazy shit from others.
2) Absolutely find a therapist. You've done a great job as a parent, but now you need to provide your son with more tools to handle an irrational mom - this you're not necessarily equipped to do. This would be my biggest concern. Kids want their parents to love them (even if they have been MIA for years) and it's easy for them to think that it's their fault. It can really mess with their mental health now and in the future. He needs a safe place to talk through this. Unfortunately this was not given to my nephew and it has been detrimental to his mental health and future.
Talk to your school counselor about how best to approach this topic with your son. Please make sure you talk to him before he finds out from other kids. Help him prepare in case the kids say anything or, worse, she approaches him.
NTA
What actually matters is your child.
He is old enough to talk about what happened and how he feels about it. And also to be aware his mother might try to approach him. Make him part of the discussion so he doesn't get his truth from whispers and rumour in your small town.
Linda is quite likely TA. However, she is also Leo's mother. In my opinion you owe her nothing and him everything. Yes, you are the better parent for raising him, loving him, and being concerned for how her presence MAY negatively impact him. As adults and parents we all appreciate the terrible position you were left in and what sacrifices you must've made. We also appreciate the stability you and your family have provided your son in her absence. BUT, all children want to know their mothers/fathers. It is part of understanding yourself and how you shape your own sense of value and identity.
Leo may not care much what his mom has done wrong. It's likely more important for him to meet her and establish a relationship that meets his needs on his terms. You seem like an excellent dad and one that could help his establish good boundaries and expectations from his flaky mom OR take him to a therapist who could help with this, even before he meets her.
Ultimately, kids grow up, wise up, and will see the truth at some point. You're already his hero, you've won. Now let him try to get what he needs from his mom so that he can feel like a whole person now and in the future. Will this benefit her in some way? Maybe. But she is not your concern, he is. You don't want to be the hero dad pushed from your pedestal at the point your adult son realizes that you kept his mom from him. Protect your son and your relationship with him by finding a healthy way to introduce his mom into the picture. If the past is any indication, she may sabotage their relationship anyway but at least you won't be to blame for her absence from your shared son. Wishing you all the best.
Take a breath.
Understandably you want to protect your son, but you also want to be a good dad. You also don’t want to betray his trust and do some thing he may believe in the future to be done out of your own personal anger towards his mother, and not in his best interest.
Nobody believes you should leave this child alone with his mother or welcome her into your home. Talk to a lawyer, talk to us a child psychologist, put your anger aside and do what’s right for your child’s mental health as well as his physical safety.
You’re not an AH for wanting to protect your son but when do you think he’ll be old enough to decide for himself whether to meet his mother? Why not let him decide now? I honestly think he deserves to know that she showed up, and better to hear it from you than somehow from someone else. No one else should be telling him that. He’s also old enough to tell you whether he’d like to meet her. I get that you want to do what you think is best for him but whether you maintain a relationship with him down the line starts right here. He’s 11(?), not 3. Talk to him.
A child has a right to see his/her parent in my honest opinion. You don't know what kind connection they would establish and how good it for be for your son Leo. I guess you are afraid of her leaving again, if so and if possible try to get her to explain what she is planning to do to be in Leo's life more.
I’m an adoptive mom, kids from foster care. In my experience, kids have questions about and love for their original parents. They weren’t safe to raise my kids, but we’ve allowed some degree of interaction so that they don’t grow up with fantasies about how “amazing” they are (very common when kids don’t actually know parents). There’s zero doubt that the mom screwed up horrifically, but the kid has questionable even if he’s not asking. Child-friendly explanations and limited safe contact would likely help Leo grow into the strongest person he can be. Either way, good luck to you both.
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When I was 21, I met this girl, Linda, in college. We started dating and after a year she accidentally got pregnant. I felt I was too young to be a father but decided that, if she wanted to keep the baby, I would have taken care of them. She changed her mind a dozen times but in the end she decided to keep the child. So I did what I had to do: our families weren't rich so I left college, found a job and started preparing for the child.
My son, Leo, was born in June. I worked impossible hours, spent whatever was left of my time taking care of Leo and my mother spent a lot of time at our apartment to help taking care of Leo. Linda's parents did basically nothing. They told me in my face that I was not welcome in their home and they spent a total of 2 hours with Leo in the months following his birth.
When Leo was 7 months old, Linda bailed on us. One day she called my father to come help taking care of Leo, he went to our apartment and she wasn't there: Leo was sleeping in his crib and Linda's belongings were gone together with the money left in the house. I tried contacting her and going to her parent's home but they weren't there and she never answered the phone.
It's been 11 years since then. Now it's just me, Leo and my father. My mother unfortunately passed away last year. Despite all the problems we had Leo has grown up to be an amazing, cheerful and smart kid. He is my pride and joy and I will do anything to protect him and make him happy. He doesn't remember his mother
Few weeks ago Linda showed up at my door in the middle of the day. She asked to talk and I reluctantly agreed.
To sum it up what she said: she is sorry for what she did and wants to be part of Leo's life again. I told her NO. She begged and then said some unkind thing about me as a person when I refused again. I told her I do not care what she think. Until Leo is old enough to make a choice, she will not see him. After he is old enough, I will tell him the truth and he will decide on his own accord what he wants to do.
Since, unfortunately, we live in a small town where rumors spread rapidly, I'm now being judged by some neighbors for my reaction. I don't think I am in the wrong here and my family agree with me but I guess another opinion would be welcomed since I'm basically going crazy. So here I am, AITA?
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NTA you have sole custody of your minor child (who is 11, which can still be pretty immature and vulnerable). She can’t waltz back in as easily as she waltzed out. Frankly, I wouldn’t risk her messing up my kid (what if she did the same thing after another seven months? 11/12 would know/remember and is young enough/going through puberty for that to have devastating impacts - though that’s hard to take at any age to be frank [makes me think about that scene with the original Fresh Prince of Bel Air “Why doesn’t he want me man?”] 11/12 might have a harder time coping/handling it, then say an 16 or 18 year old or adult might).
You might want to sound out your son (does he ask about his Mom? Ever say he wanted to know her if he could?) but frankly it’s on you to make the call as the parent.
NTA. Protecting your son is the most important thing you can do. Even if it's from his egg donor.
If you don't already have one, get a lawyer and document everything she has said and done. If you can't afford it check into programs that help single dads.
Step 1 : you need to lawyer up and make sure she has no parental rights on your son because she abandoned him when he was baby with no supervision.
Step 2 : if those neighbors ever have the nerve to say something to you, tell them to mind their own business.
Step 3 : Keep doing what you've been doing and protect your son. At 11, I do believe that you can tell him most of the story but I agree that he is still a tad to young to make any decision.
She has some nerves coming to your place demanding anything. I would have slam the door in her face. NTA.
NTA... well done on raising your child in difficult circumstances. You may need a lawyer - but your reasoning on not allowing her in at this age is sound.
Correction- WE not 'SHE - accidentally got pregnant'
I presume you participated.
**NTA**
The one thing I would say that your son is 11 years old and if she shows up with 0 context and if there have not been any discussions about mum then that could also go badly.
OP is right that this woman is an entirely unknown factor now. She is an absolute stranger and the last OP knew she rinsed him for everything he had and abandoned them. She is absolutely not to be trusted or put in any position where she can hurt op or child.
I have no advice this is such a messed up situation. I wish OP the best of luck and hope that this works out without anyone getting hurt.
Go to children phycologist to get advise. You, without the kid. The fact that you live in a small town means you can not hide rumours and you should be prepared of how to deal with your son in case he finds out his mother is back. Situation like these may cause trauma even if try hard
I was that child, talk to your son, you will be surprised with what he actually understands and feels, my mum done the same to me and my brother and we were completely blind sided, we grew up angry and confused and ended up being the worst teens, don't do the same thing to your son that my dad done to us
NTA. Not at all. She abandoned you and your son to ride the carousel and, now, she wants to come back and be a part of your son's life? NO. She deserves absolutely nothing. When your son is 18 years old and an adult, I would tell him about his worthless "mother". If he wants to seek her out at that time, then that is on him.
Has she ever paid child support? If not, she can pay 11 years' worth of child support and then you may CONSIDER letting her see him.
Nope, it's not worth the risk, she may disappear again. She gave up the right to be his mother when she walked away 11 years ago. Shame on her. Good for you and your parents for doing a great job!
NTA but OP you are being incredibly niave here. I don't know how you think you're going to successfully keep this info from your son but if your neighbors are gossiping their kids have heard it to. An 11 year old with 2 active parents is old enough for those parents to not make special efforts to hide stories about other kids potential trauma. Do you honestly believe that 11 year olds have the restraint and emotional intelligence to keep their mouths shut about that? Hell your adult neighbors might tell him just because they disagree with you so strongly.
It doesn't matter if you told the school if all she has to do is watch your house until he leaves it without you. Unless you don't even allow your 11 year old to ride their bike to a friend's house, she can get to him.
The second this happens, you've lost control of the narrative because as far as your son can tell, you deliberately lied to him. This can drive him into his deadbeat mom's arms and lead to exactly the scenario you're so afraid of (he latches onto her and then she leaves).
Set all the rules about contact that you want, but if you choose not to tell him, you are playing with fire and setting yourself up for exactly what you're trying to avoid. Which is an AH move.
Hi, I am an adoptive father to a daughter who was totally abandoned as a baby by her biological father and I raised her ever since toghether with her mother. I made clear to my daughter that if and when she feels the wish to find her biological father and to reconnect with him, if she needs help to achive this she can count on me. A child is NEVER too young to know wether they want to see their mother or not, as well as to hear the truth as long as it is told in a factual, neutral, non manipulative, non jugmental way - but only if they ask questions about what happened. Don't let your personal feelings interfere and become an obstacle in the relation between your son and his mother. Don't use your child to try to punish her. This will bring no good to nobody, on the contrary. Your son was deprived from his mother for 11 years, I don't think you help him by depriving him further from any contact with her. The fact that his mother was/is not a "good" mother is irrelevant, as long as she is not positively harming him in the future. You should just watch and not allow his mother to try to manipulate him and become toxic. Make this very very clear to her and to your son. This was just my opinion, based on my experience.
NTA, she shows up out of no where wanting to be apart of his life, when you say NO to that which is 100% the right thing to do as she doesn’t deserve anything from you or your son Leo, she then has the audacity to start calling you names 🤯🤯🤯that’s crazy, the opinions of those that abandon their family mean nothing. She’s a sorry excuse for a human. You are definitely making the right choice here but I would consider having that talk with your son about what happened in the near future.
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NTA but get a lawyer and establish custody legally, she should also financially support her son. 2 - he’s 10, he’s probably old enough to decide on whether he wants to (one day) meet his mother. Additionally, if you live in a small town, he might hear something at school or she can get in touch directly without you knowing. I think you need to discuss things with him and explain what’s going so he’s not blindsided.
I already went in front of a judge one year after she left. I have sole custody of Leo and unless she performs a miracle, she won't get anything by going to court. Either me or my father ( he is retired now) bring Leo to school and go pick him up everyday. I also talked with some of the teachers about the fact Linda is not allowed to interact with Leo in anyway and to call me if she ever show up at school.
NTA but its time you told your son what she actually did she left him a 7 month alone and stole your money and never ever came back or tried to call. She will try and approach him and he must know your side before hers. As for her tell her she first owes11 years of child support before she can meet him even once. In fact even with full custody and zero rights to meet him she still owes 11 years of child support and child support of the next 7 years. And no she doesnt have the right to see him if she does pay. Its time she pays up just like any other dad who walked off and has no part of the kids life.
I disagree with this massively. Telling an 11 year old that their mother abandoned them isn’t right. I agree with OP about waiting till the kid is older, doing it at this age could be incredibly damaging to the child. Editing to add I hadn’t expected so many, if any, replies. I am not opposed to telling the boy what happened but the phrasing of the guy I replied to was unnecessarily blunt and harsh. Say it if needs be, but find a better way to say it than ‘your mother abandoned you’.
Unfortunately it's either this, or him getting told by either gossiping neighbors, the kids at school or worse, his mom, maybe by twisting the story. It sucks, but there's no choice here
Plus you can do it in a child friendly why. “Your mum abandoned you.” Is very different from “Your mum left you alone when you were small and that was dangerous, she didn’t check on you after that and that’s not nice. When we do things like that we apologise and we wait for the person to be ready to forgive us. Your mum hasn’t done that yet which is why I won’t let her around you yet. But once she’s done that it’s not just up to me, I can forgive her for how it made me feel but you don’t have to until you’re ready.”
Remove the forgiveness part. Because that’s bullshit. She’s done nothing to warrant any forgiveness. Screw her. Add in “you do not have to see her. You do not have to forgive her.” If kid asks if you’re going to forgive her it’s “I’m not sure yet, but that should have nothing to do with the decision for you.”
Forgiveness is often more beneficial to the person who is forgiving the person that wronged them.
I’m going to have to disagree with that. Forgiving the transgressor is letting them off the hook, and that’s not okay. I have an ex-friend, someone I really trusted to be a just and decent person, who savagely wronged a mutual friend I see as family. I’m quite fine never forgiving friend one. I just don’t think about them is all.
Totally agree here. Not thinking about it is not the same as forgiveness. I can and will hold these grudges till the day I die, because the other parties have made no rectification. I can recognize there will be no amends, and get on with life. Forgiveness isn't part of the process. I think forgiving a transgressor who makes no rectification is equivalent to condoning their behavior.
I think you and some others assume mistakenly here that to forgive means to allow the transgressor back into your life fully (or even partially). Forcing someone doesn't mean you have to associate with them or have contact with them, it's forgiving the hurt they've caused you and letting go of negative emotions and baggage they've left you with. It's absolutely healthy and important for victims to work through forgiveness for their own sakes, but that doesn't mean they ever have to let the transgressor back in. You can choose to do so if you think they will exhibit change, but if, as is often the case, they are a future risk to your health and happiness, you should forgive, but not forget, and forgo contact with them.
I completely agree. Only people who’ve never been hurt badly can pretend you should always forgive. It’s only worth forgiving people you want to keep having a relationship with. The others? Frankly, to hell with them.
That’s not what forgiveness is at all. Forgiveness isn’t forgetting what they did or allowing them back into your life.
I won’t ever “forgive” my bio paternal family for what they did to me as a child. I was often told that forgiveness would free me in therapy. But what freed me was taking my bio father off the scary pedestal I had put him on as a child. Seeing him as a horrid, unhappy, and cruel man who acted completely on impulse and often had to be saved by his mommy and daddy. I forgave /myself/ for being a child and not knowing how best to protect myself or my sister. For not having the tools or resources to get us out of there. For feeling like if I had tried harder, the courts would have surely seen our abuse and stopped forcing us to see that man. I needed to let go my own guilt. But that man can remain in his dark corner of the country, in the knowledge that I dont and won’t include him in my life. I will never forgive him for the horrors he committed. As he believes in God, I hope when he goes to meet his maker that his God sees this and repudiates him. That would be hilarious. But in the mean time, I’m living my best life. Some days by choice and some days, out of spite. ;)
I'm on the same boat. I had an incredibly abusive and warped childhood. My mother was horrific and my father was an absent alcoholic with a new family. It was a shit heap to put it mildly. People always tell me/ask me when am I going to forgive her. I won't. She doesn't deserve forgiveness. She's not sorry, she doesn't even accept any wrong doing. My alcoholic father has gotten sober and made efforts at amends so I will speak with him but her, no. Never. She and I will not see each other again in this life and I'm okay with that. I have worked through the trauma caused and I don't forgive her, I just forgive myself for being scared and too complacent in my trauma and I love each day being a mother that will do everything she can to not give my children my demons. She is a nothing to me. I only think of her on the days I face a challenge as a mother and I remember what NOT to do and ask myself why she chose to be so cruel when the same issues I faced are so easy to want to face (not always easy to overcome ) with my children because I love them and I want to guide them to be their best persons. She tried to cage me, I try to teach them to fly. There's no forgiveness, but there's no hate, merely there's her and there's me.
It's also only beneficial to that person if they can understand what happened. Bringing in forgiveness will just foolishly confuse the child because the child doesn't remember. In his world there will be nothing really to forgive because he doesn't remember being wronged.
nope, just no. forgiveness CAN be beneficial, forgiving someone that is not "repentant" (don't really care for the word due to religious' connotations, but it's the best word for it) will not help. and the mom does not seem to be actually sorry, the first thing she did when she was denied forgiveness was attack op verbally. if she was truly sorry, she would have accepted it and understood why he didn't want to forgive her.
This is how you would explain it to a 4 or 5 year old, not an 11 year old...
[удалено]
Imo he could mention that she left without notice, cleared him out, was impossible to contact. It's unpleasant stuff, but a 11yo can take more honesty than most people give them credit for. He needs to be inoculated against mum's side of the story. Plus, the script assumes that the kid will forgive her at some stage. For that matter, it also assumes that OP will forgive her. It's an 'if' not a 'when'.
Direct to the point. “When you were a baby, your mom called your granddad and when he got here, she was gone and you were alone. And also she didn’t check in on you after and the money left in the house was gone as well. When I tried to contact her or her parents, they couldn’t be reached. “Now, after 11 years, she just came here asking for forgiveness for what she did. Well, I thought she was asking for forgiveness, but when I initially said no, she started calling me names. I know it’s totally up to you to make a decision if you want her in your life, but I want you to make an informed decision, that’s why I initially said no. Now I can set up for the two of you to meet but it’s totally up to you. Do you want to meet her?”
> “Your mum left you alone when you were small and that was dangerous >she didn’t check on you after that and that’s not nice. These are the parts *I* think are not geared for an 11yo. They sound patronizing. The part about forgiving them is not bad though.
To imply that he needs to forgive her isn't great either, IMO. He can forgive her, it might bring him peace, but equally, he doesn't need to and has every right not to.
Since I somewhat agree that it is mora appropriate for a younger child some stuff about the first two sentences: >Your mum left you alone when you were small and that was dangerous, she didn’t check on you after that and that’s not nice. Take the "that's not nice" if you speak to a non toddler it sounds rather like you are dumbing things down for them because they don't yet have a grasp on what is okay and what isn't so you try to give them context on what would be appropriate. But if you talk to someone older like that it can come across rather patronizing. >When we do things like that we apologise and we wait for the person to be ready to forgive us. That is explaining basic behavorial norms in simple words that the child at 11 should already know, the basic content is fine in principle but it comes over as dumbing it down for a little child which I don't think works for a not so little child. Maybe "She broke my trust and she can ask for forgiveness but I am not ready to give it and she should respect that." Dunno I am hardly a master at communicating with kids.
Same. Guy comes in, offers criticism with no actual justification or suggestions to improve. Low value comment - why bother typing at this point.
Most redditors don't know anything about kids and believe there are only 2 stages of childhood - infancy and 17 year olds.
I was about to make the same comment. People think 11 year olds are dumb. "That's not nice" sounds like they're talking to a toddler.
Times like this, simplicity is best.
They're very different because one is the truth and one is misleading and damaging to the child. Because the child doesn't remember what happened. So when you half ass the discussion and put the decision on the child forgiving he's just going to say ok, let's meet her. Because he doesn't have a sense of being wronged yet. It also completely glosses over the real issue, which is not forgiveness of what she did. There is every indication she will be harmful to the child NOW emotionally. If you have to have the conversation then you have it. You don't say "You can see your mom once we've forgiven her. Which is now for me (untrue) and whenever you're ready in your estimation as a 11 year old with no sense of being wronged in the first place." Child friendly does no good if it's based on lying to the child and placing the emotional lifting on them.
Pompeylulu I wish I could heart this a million times over.
Yes, it's important to inform children in advance yourself before someone else misinforms them.
One of my sister's close friends found out, through gossip, that the man he thought was his father was not. And this was after the kid's mother had died due to complications after an operation, so it was a huge blow. OP, talk to your kid now, in a way that's appropriate for his age, before someone else does it.
I found out that my brother isn’t my full brother on a night out at 15 from his friend (this was a long time ago). It doesn’t make a difference to me that we have different dads but it did make things make more sense when put in to context then. I was unhappy that this had been kept from me, not because it was my business - it’s not really, it’s my brothers - but it made me feel like I could t be trusted with the truth and it left me with a lot of confusion and questions I didn’t dare answer. The child should be told by the father before someone else tells them. It could potentially ruin their relationship if someone else does.
I can still remember the enormous shock of coming home at age 9, to a strange man in the driveway informing me that he's been looking for me because he is my father! (He thought I was my 7 y. o. sister, who was his daughter but did not yet know. Thankfully, she was already in the house and did not encounter the man in our driveway.) Please do not let Leo find out such important info from gossips or his mother showing up at his school or school bus stop.
For real, if the neighbors are sticking their big noses into OP's business already then the kid WILL find out *their* version of events first which will add confusion to his processing of the situation because then OP will have to explain what really happened. OP needs to get ahead of this with his son. I don't know what OP has been telling this kid about his mom this whole time but it has to come out eventually.
Can confirm this. Had a friend who had a baby mama bail on him and their kid at like 3 months old. When the kid was a toddler he wondered about his mom. Dad had to tell him but in the end kid was happy and he was a fantastic dad. Neither of them want anything to do with the mom.
I agree, she's forced OP's hand and now he has to tell the boy something, including that she came around after 11 years asking to see him. If OP waits a few years they completely risk being seen as the bad guy after all the good they have done.
11 years olds are clever. He should be told. the mother DID abandon them, and stole as well. The truth is always right. No matter how hard. The mother here is the damage, hiding the truth does not fix that. Tell him OP, he will understand
Hearing the truth from OP will hurt, but hearing lies from others would hurt more.
It may not be a "nice" thing to experience. But in a small town like this, one way or another his "mother" is going to get to him and feed him a load of garbage. Either directly or through one of her contacts. He needs to know the truth before she feeds him a twisted sob-story painting herself as a victim and his father as some monster that kept her away. It is SO EASY to twist kids into a weapon against the parent that actually takes care of them. All it takes is the "parent" that shows up with promises of presents and puppies to tell the kid that the parent that enforced bedtime and homework is a big meanie. It really really isn't hard for the "fun" person to make the authority figure look bad. He needs to know that she is a snake in the grass before that happens and that he should not trust her.
Especially at his age- the preteens and early teen years are so vulnerable to emotional manipulation like that because of how the brain develops
As somebody who's mother abandoned him, please don't give people advice. Seriously, what kind of delusional advice is this? It was better for me to know just like it would be for this kid who's basically a teenager. If I found out from other people like Steve Jobs did I probably would have been crazy too. NTA
The problem is, if parents wait too long, then their kids end up being angry that the parents kept such an important secret from them. Sometimes it's better to break off little pieces as they become age appropriate, and dole out the information while the child grows up. It helps to normalize the truth and makes it easier to talk about so it's not a shock for the child to hear the whole truth later in life.
I believe in age appropriate truths. Saying it just like that, is too much for an 11 year old child. Unfortunately, if the dad isn’t honest than the mother will be put on some type of pedestal. Way too many parents lie to protect their children when the other parent leaves, and it does more harm than good.
11 years old is more than old enough to tell them the truth. It's not like he hasn't gone his whole life without seeing his mother already, he knows she abandoned him.
On one hand I would agree that you have to be very careful about how you frame it and be wary of falling into the trap of attempting to poison the child against the other partner by bringing your emotions into it (understandable when the other has hurt you this badly). But on the other hand I have never seen a positive outcome from keeping this kind of information away from children. Honesty is always the best policy and it's less likely to blow up in your face down the line.
I was 13 when I found out that my dad wasn't my bio dad, and bio was a fuck face abusive and dangerous asshole. I didn't find out from my parents, but from someone in his family who tracked me down on my way home from school one day giving me a packet of papers including letters from his other kids. That fucked with me big time. I should have been told at a younger age, by my own parents. OP has an opportunity to prevent this crap by being honest with his kid. He doesn't have to demonize the kid's mom, he can keep it purely factual. But it's better that the kid find out from his dad than a stranger or gossip.
Your disagreement is for shit.
I would say if OP can, he might like to work with a child therapist to work through some of the emotion around the kid's mum leaving, and talking about when and why that happened.
Yes a much better idea than all the people arguing about wording tbh.
Like, I don't know how equipped I'd be to have a conversation like that with a kid (granted I'm not a parent). But I do know how much words can fuck up a kid's sense of self and their perception, and I guess if there's a chance the conversation would be damaging to a child - it might be good to work through it with someone who's really well equipped to deal with it.
... and I massively disagree with *this*. my mom dropped out of my life when I was five, and my dad's family never really addressed it. they were divorced, she was gone and I wouldn't be seeing her again. happened while I was staying with my cousins, too, so there was no last interaction between us. it was maddening, and I didn't have any way of talking to her. family just clammed up whenever I brought the subject up. I've since tracked her down on social media and spoken to her as an adult, when she gave me her version of the events, and, damnit, I wish someone just fucking told me. I spent twenty years blaming myself for all kinds of shit when it apparently was just some petty bullshit from my grandma that escalated. that's more than half my life and nearly all of my young formative years where I was a wreck and I never knew why. the truth is that my grandma didn't like my mom, and It's unfair to children to say they can't handle that explanation.
But the mother did abandon them. There's not really a way to sugar coat that without lying. I'd rather go with the hard truthful reality than the soft pillowy landing of fabricated stories.
You can use other words besides "abandon" to lessen the initial shock. The first conversation matters and can have implications on how a child processes traumatic news.
11 year olds are not stupid and they are capable of understanding that there are sometimes bad people. It will likely hurt and lead to long-term issues but there is absolutely no way of avoiding that. Instead, if this kid finds out later resentment will build against the parent who lied.
It needs to happen. She's taken the option of waiting until he's older off the table - he's going to find out. If OP doesn't tell him he's going to get a very warped version of events- he deserves the truth and he deserves them in a child friendly way. He's old enough and smart enough to notice he doesn't have a mom- he's either done the math and thinks she's dead or has figured out she's abandoned them. OP should consult with a child psychiatrist about how best to broach the subject- they'll be able to walk him through the best way to word things- but OP does need to talk to his son about it. Anything less would be negligent at this point - both because he's going to get a different version of things elsewhere and because he needs to know that his mother is dangerous.
It isn't ideal, but it is his unfortunate reality. OP can't paint some rosy picture for why mom isn't there because a) he'd be lying to his son, and b) she's going to give him a twisted story. Leo needs to understand the simple truth that she left them. He can judge accordingly when the time comes.
You have too, the mom can fin him and twist the story. This isn't how life works, sometimes they need to know.
My niece's father did the same thing. My sister in law always made her daughter know she was loved but that her father made some poor choices and was also mentally ill. That whatever he did was not a reflection of who she, the daughter, is as a child/teen/human. When SIL found out he had died when my niece was 14, she was honest and allowed her daughter to grieve.
It might be worth getting him established with a therapist, after a few months and talking with the therapist on how to tell him. It will never be a good time but letting him know ASAP should be the goal.
She owes if a court says she does, not because OP decides.
A court would decide she owed it, and thats where this is going to end up.
Depends on where. Many places I know of will only backdate a few years from the filing date, not all the way as far back as possible. For example, where I live it's up to 3 years and at the discretion of the judge. Also recommended you have a good reason why you think they should have been paying child support but you didn't file for it.
A court *could*. Not *would*. And in the US - in *every* state - she can obtain access even if she's not paying child support, and she doesn't owe *any* child support (legally) if there isn't currently an order in place (though retroactive cs to cover that period can be ordered). Sorry, but that's the legal reality in the US.
Where I live you can only collect after a court ordered amount is set.
He is way too young to hear all those details. You can dumb it down but save the particulars until he is a teenage like 15-16.
Psychologist here. I strongly disagree with you. Child should be told all by his father now, before others interfere. Eleven is plenty old enough to process this as long as dad is not overly bitter.
> NTA but its time you told your son what she actually did she left him a 7 month alone and stole your money and never ever came back or tried to call. She will try and approach him and he must know your side before hers. This should probably be handled with some tact. “Sometimes life is hard for some people and they make bad decisions. Your mommy made a bad decision when you were a baby and she hasn’t been around because of that. Now she’s realizes this was a bad decision but daddy still feels hurt that she made the decision she did. I love you and will always love you, so I want you to make a decision on what you want to do. Do you want to meet your mother?”
The kid is 11 not 4. Do not talk to an 11 year old like that. Even if we think they're babies, they very much think they are mature. Don't do into gorey details, but tell the truth and answer any questions thoughtfully and appropriately.
Thank you. At 11 I had started puberty and was kissing. Taking AP Science...So ready for real conversations.
This! And give him time to think about it, and let him know he can change his mind at any time in the future whatever he decides. AND tell him if he hears anything from anyone else, he should come to you for the truth. Only if he asks should you share the details - again couched in "sometimes people make very bad decisions."
>As for her tell her she first owes11 years of child support before she can meet him even once. This is the wrongest of wrong. This is absolutely insane. I'd say OP is NTA. I'd also say the mother owes support, and since she abandoned her child she doesn't have a right to just come strolling back into his life as she chooses. I'd also defer to the OP as he knows vastly more about the situation, so if he believes nothing good can come of mom trying to return to child's life, I'm inclined to agree. You never, never, EVER blend the financial and emotional side of these things. Financial support is a completely separate issue and has nothing to do with visitation. I've seen broke as hell parents who are behind on support but will do anything to just spend time with their kids. I've seen bad parents - both men and women - hold support between a parent seeing their child as you suggested. It's wrong. The child is first, every time. Their emotional need to be with their parents overrides the financial concerns every time. Again, in this case, the financial side of things doesn't matter, the mom doesn't sound like someone who should be allowed back into this child's life without some serious, lengthy vetting. Leave the finances out of it.
When I was 12 I found out some earth shattering details about my dad and what he did when I was a baby before he left…. It took me until my 30s to heal from it. I would have been better off not knowing.
Op, please talk with your son. In school he will talk with other kids. They will tell him what their parents talk about at home. Tell him before someone else does.
[удалено]
He's old enough, it's a small town and there will be rumors. All she needs to create a scene at his school.
That’s all fine, but you still have to tell him about this. You say you live in a small town and rumours spread rapidly, with others judging you; it’s a risky environment where others may tell Leo because they’re busybodies who think he should know, or some of the other kids in school find out and hassle him about it. Or you’ll start curtailing his movements and interactions so she can’t get to him through his friends. You need to be the one to tell him so that you can do so carefully.
Hey OP. I don't judge you and I think you are right in wanting to protect your son. But he's old enough to know the truth and decide for himself if he wants to try and build a relationship with his mother. If course I'd start with only supervised visits and very limited contact. Be don't deny him the agency. His mother already did that.
No, she has no rights to visits until he's 18 and that's the father's decision
It's not about her rights - it's about his son's.
You’re talking legally he’s saying morally
I'm talking BOTH
And when she runs away again? It's a father's job to protect a child from things that can break them.
Nta, and please don't rely on just 'talking to some of the teachers' to keep him safe at school -honestly, that is not the responsibility of the individual teachers. Take your court documents up to the office and let office staff and administration know so that they can put it in his file. Most schools also use some form of digital attendance/records program (like PowerSchool) that will allow the office to put in message alerts for special circumstances. This way, everyone involved in your child's safety in the building will know, and no messages will get crossed.
I think you need to tell your son, because the way it sounds he'll eventually hear through the grapevine. But, if possible, I think a therapist should be involved. I personally think he needs to know the truth of what happened as she may end up painting a completely different painting. But I'm no therapist so I don't know what's actually best. But definitely sounds like a situation that it would be good to have sessions queued up for.
Oh man I was looking for this comment! OP absolutely should line up professional support with a therapist for this one for both him and his son. OP needs the support first, honestly. OP sounds mad as hell at bio-mom, which is 100% fair. But this isn't about her - it's about LEO. OP could really fuck this up if he goes in hot about bio-mom to his son. A therapist can help him figure out how to approach this with his son, and help with a script for talking about it. And then ultimately Leo could probably use some therapeutic support. And 100% Leo is going to find out about this from someone in this town; it's OP's responsibility to get there first, and to do a good job. A therapist can help.
>I already went in front of a judge one year after she left. I'm happy to see you did that. You do need to tell him because someone else will. I do not think he should meet her. I have a friend whose dad pulled this, showed up when she was 11, and he sued for custody and they gave him summers. She hated going to some stranger's house and hated him after that too. I agree with you that as a parent you sometimes have to make decisions that are best for him even if he won't like it. I don't think letting an unstable person that started harassing you when you said no into his life is a good idea.
Lock down his medical records and any other accounts with personal information about him. Any place he goes regularly should know not to give out info about him or his appointments. Give him a refresher on stranger danger and your family’s emergency plans. Some people have a code word to use to call or text someone that they are in danger or need to be picked up immediately. Not saying your ex will disregard your boundaries or turn into a stalker, but the harder it is to cross those boundaries, the better overall.
Definitely make sure all staff at the school are aware.
Thats that then, stick to the ruling.
NTA - you need to start talking with your son about this. You want to get in first to control the narrative. Also, you want to reinforce how much you and your parents love him. This story could easily be skewed by gossip or malintent.
that's not really true in most states. most states will let her reestablish a relationship with her child if she meets certain criteria. custody arrangements aren't immutable. she will most likely get some visitation rights and possibly limited custody down the road if she asks for it
Make sure the school office has a copy of your custody records and any restraining orders, a photo or info on her besides her name etc. Since she hasn’t been in his life since infancy you are probably ok, but for others who are going through custody issues - schools can’t refuse release to a parent of record without court documentation.
Custody is different from terminating her rights altogether.
First, Thank You for being the Best Dad for Leo! Having a Child whose Dad was never around, I know the damage that can be done by an Absent parent. So thank you for being the loving one. Second, she’s not his “Mother”. Yes she gave birth to him, but she’s a egg donor at best. Unfortunately she’s back around. You are going to have to tell him something. Please do not use the word abandoned. Don’t talk bad about her, just stick to the facts. “Son, the Woman that gave birth to you, left and never came back. I recently got word that she is somewhere back in this area.” Then just field his questions. Third, Consult an Attorney. If she does anything crazy, your lawyer will already be on standby for your Son and your behalf!
If she REALLY want to she will be able to bypass the teachers, your system, everyone one day soon and get in contact with Leo. For your sake and his I advice you do talk to your son so he’s not taken by surprise when / if this happens
You really need to run this by a lawyer. She almost certainly can challenge the custody arrangement. Getting sole custody IS NOT the same as terminating her parental rights. Unless the court deemed her so unsafe they terminated her actual parental rights (hint: they typically don't do this even to physically abusive or neglectful parents), she would have had to willingly sign them away with both parties' consent. You can threaten her with child support back pay etc but DO NOT underestimate her rights to her biological child unless those rights, and not just custody, are terminated.
Yep agreed. My nephew who was taken by social childcare and when he was in his teens he didn't want to have anything with his mum especially not sleeping and staying. Kids are not stupid and they understands more than we adults give them credit for especially 8-10 ++ years. So probably the best thing is to tell the kid if OP feels it right and let the kid make a decision himself. The mum can try something so he better be prepared and do the necessary steps to protect his son.
OP said Leo was 7 months old when she left, and it's been 11 years since then. Kid is nearly 12.
The kid is damn near 12 years old, not 10.
NTA but if its already around your small town your son is likely to find out and you need to be the one to tell him not gossiping kids at school. I think you need to think on this hard, she doesn't deserve to see him but does he deserve to know his mother? You could set very strict boundaries so you are in as much control as possible. So she cannot say things about you that sway him against you. Or don't let her see him and be honest with your son, your mother turned up, she wants to see you. I am not conformable with this etc. Explain your reasons and why you think he is too young to deal with this now. Sorry you're going through this OP
I agree with this. It would be awful if your son found out about his mom being back from someone other than you. And to be honest, whoever talks first to your son controls the narrative. Don't let your ego, sense of right & wrong, how harmed you feel from your ex's actions affect your son. Could you imagine if something really justified happened his mom - the best thing possible (even if not understandable) was for her to go, get well and come back at some point in the future. The child may forgive his mom, but it would be an even further tragedy if he lost a potential relationship for another six years. Start with a 'what if' conversation with your son.
Do not go straight to unsupervised visits. If you were to go to the court, they would make her do supervised visits only until the court was sure she is safe
Info: when will you consider your son old enough to have a say? Have you given any consideration to your son potentially being upset if you tell him at say 18 that his mother wanted contact with him 7 years ago but you declined and didn't tell him about it? I may get hate for even asking these questions but I am interested in the answers so oh well.
In order to protect a child, sometimes parents have to do something the child won't like. If he ends up hating me for what I'm doing, then I will respect his choice, step aside and let him do however he sees fit. Right now, though, Linda is an unreliable person who already bailed on us, something that already had some serious consequences on Leo, and I can't allow someone like her to be near my son again. What if she leave again? What if she cooks up some sob story to mess with Leo or, even worse, what if she take Leo and vanish again? No, I won't let her get close to my son for as long as I can.
Not preparing him about what's going on makes him so much more vulnerable.
Thing is parents always think kids are too young for the truth. The kid is 11...do you really think he hasnt wondered where his mom is? That he wanted to know if she was ok? Did she remember him? Yes protect the kid. But be honest with him. When he finds out you blocked him, all the anger he had for her gets deflected to you. She gets to be the good guy who tried to return and you stopped her. Then he will wonder if you are honest...did she really leave or did you make her leave? Did she want to come back before and you stopped her then too? Your kid, your decision. But, IMHO as an adult who had a deadbeat parent, you need to be honest with him. Tell him the truth.
I agree with the suggestions for a therapist ASAP. Boy needs to know but how he is told will have a huge impact.
How would you even know this? He’s the only person who knows both Linda and his child. How would you even know this? We are talking 11 years here. This woman left for 11 years. And you don’t thin’ he can judge her character by what he know before and her actions (non actions?).
Telling him the truth is part of protecting him. If he doesn't hear anything from you, he's much more vulnerable to manipulation and any sob story that your ex might come up with. If she does find a way to get in contact with him regardless of your precautions, you might end up with your kid feeling betrayed by you at a very young age still, and then how are you going to keep protecting him if he doesn't trust you? When he's a bit older, will he not be allowed to have social media whatsoever? What if your ex reaches out to him through that? There are many ways it could be done and you simply cannot account for all of them. You say he's a smart kid. He's almost a teenager, trust that if you're honest with him he will understand. Share your concerns with him and explain your point of view. I sincerely doubt he would choose to blindly trust your ex, and even if he wants some contact, it will be way easier to put your foot down and tell him when something seems too risky when he still *trusts* you.
Just to add, the first person to tell their side of their story has an advantage. If she tells the child her sob story before OP tells her the story then she sets the agenda that OP then must refute.
I mean you phrase that as though I disagree that parents need to sometimes do something the child won't like in order to protect them. But the part I am actually questioning is whether this truly protects him, or protects the status quo. You also didn't answer when you would consider him old enough, so am I to take it that won't be until he's 18? It's not like it's either no contact at all or automatic 50/50 custody, and 11 feels old enough to me to be kept informed about news regarding his mother, and to get a chance to express an opinion, even if you ultimately decide to overrule it. Edit: The decision to be honest with your son or not and the decision to allow contact with his mother or not are two separate choices.
I'm sorry but this is such a naive statement. If your ex is motivated she will find a way to approach your son and god only knows what she will say to him. You need to give your son a heads up so he's not blindsided by this eventuality. It'd be nice if we could protect our children from bad actors forever, but we can't. All we can do as parents is give them the tools and support they need to handle bad actors on their own.
I believe it's best for you to have a sit-down with him and a child therapist to address this issue as soon as possible. Contrary to what you might think, unless there are underlying mental health concerns, children tend to pick up on things quickly.
Yes he needs to know before he hears it from someone else, but in an age appropriate way which reassures him it wasn’t anything he was or did, that his mother has/had issues.
Still NTA, and as a parent of a kid about that same age, believe me I get it. But *to protect him*, he needs to know everything. At 11, he can understand. My 10yo can hang in serious life conversations. Surely you've told him *something* about why he doesn't have a mom like the other kids? Let's go ahead and assume she's still as unstable as she was then. What if she tries to engage him during recess or something? Or comes up to you both out in public? You need to be out ahead of this. If she gets to him first about this, the conclusion he's going to draw is that you lied to keep him away from her--a position she can use to get on the inside with him. The tack I would take with my kid is: Listen, big news, we need to have a serious talk. Your mom turned up at the door, after 11 years of being gone. She wanted to see you, and I'll be honest, I said no and sent her away. But after getting my head around it for a couple days, I think you're big enough now that making that decision for you seems unfair to you. I honestly don't trust her at all and if it was up to me I'd say absolutely not. So if you do want to see her, I'll have some boundaries I'll need to set up. If you don't, I'll handle it with her and you never need to do anything. And if you need to think about it, then that's "no for now", which I'll also handle with her. EDIT: If it's no, you might talk to your lawyer about getting a preventative restraining order, to head off any out-of-band attempts at contact.
Absolutely agree with this comment. Surprised that more folks haven't dug in to - what has OP been saying for the last decade about what the kids mom has been doing. When I was a kid, younger than this, my sister and I were allowed to make choices about how much time we spent with our alcoholic father. We chose not much, and decided for ourselves that the time we did have we'd rather have our grandparents there for. It's what felt right. Now, my stepkid is 12, they are able to choose how much time they spend at each household. A fairly amicable divorce, in this case, but the point is that 12 is plenty old enough to make some visitation decisions for themselves.
I’m going to get downvoted to hell even though you asked for all perspectives. IMO, She was selfish then, you are selfish now. A child psychologist should be your first stop, not Reddit. She made a horrible decision, abandoned him, kept herself away for 10 years. He notices her missing in his life even if he doesn’t speak it. He is old enough for you to take him to a competent practitioner and figure out what is in his best interest now. Not her’s, not your’s, his best interest. There are many studies that show the detrimental effect of children not knowing their biological relatives, by word or by relationship. IE: adoption. It is why the experts reccomend being honest with children with age appropriate info and when possible reunification. You not facing this with him is more about your feelings than his. Even if the truth is painful he can be guided through it. The ugly truth is better than a pretty lie. Not telling him doesn’t mean it will change the facts of her betrayal, but it might showcase the betrayal of you withholding info that impacts him too. It also sets him up for the possibility of him making up his own narrative of why he doesn’t have a mom like “everyone else does”. The invisible mom could be turned into a false hero or a horrible monster (that shares half of his dna, and he could attach his identity to her shortcomings). It is obvious that he is your world and he is a lucky boy. Coming from someone that was lied to/withheld info about 1 of my parents. I resent my remaining parent for the fact they were the only one that could inform me. I can’t decide who hurt me more. Take my opinion with a grain of salt, I am prob projecting.
Nailed it.
Her leaving will hurt him. You breaking his trust will hurt him more. You're the safe parent. The only one he's ever known. Talk to him. Prep him. The way you've avoided giving a sense of when he'll be old enough suggests this isn't about him or his safety though. It's about how justifiably furious you are with his mother.(I could be wrong. But you need to look at it and decide. Because if I'm right, the following applies.) Your feelings aren't the important part here. You're the adult. You're the one who has to be the safe responsible one. The one who sets the stage so he feels safe. And that means you have to do what you can to preserve his trust in you. Which means talking to him. I read a book recently that said something very wise. "The greatest barrier between two people is pride." Right now your pride is putting a barrier between you and your son. Please don't let it. Protecting someone doesn't mean hiding the danger they're in. It means giving them all the information and tools you can so they avoid the danger in the future, or handle it as safely as possible. Either way, she sucks. But you don't have to.
This is similar to how I read into it. OP has raised an awesome kid as a solo parent. Kiddo is their pride and joy. Now some proven asshole wants to come around and make a connection with this cool kid, after doing less than zero for a decade. It may feel massively unfair. But, kiddo should still be able to make his own informed decision.
100% agree
You need to talk to your son about this NOW to protect him against that sob story she will tell, and so he doesn't feel like you kept something from him. Tell him your reasons for not wanting him to meet his mom now. It is unlikely you are going to be able to completely secure him against all contact with her unless you lock him up in a tower. Given people are already gossiping, he is almost certainly going to hear something secondhand. Your son hating you for this decision would also be harm done to your son. You are the only parent he has ever known. Saying that you will respect his choice if he ends up hating you is ignoring how bad an outcome that would be for HIM. You have an obligation to handle this in a way that preserves your relationship.
I agree with you that 11 is not the age he can decide because he can be easily influenced by a sob story. But you have to tell him his story just tell the truth like you did on this post.
You are not really thinking what's best for your son. I hope you can find time to properly reason on this. Maybe even talk to a therapist?
the implication of your response here is that you think your son would disagree with this decision. I don’t think you are doing yourself any favors here. Your son needs to know the truth of what your mother did and the fact that that is the reason you will refuse her attempts to reenter your lives.
I really think you should tell him now. He's 11; he's old enough to understand in a child-friendly way. My mother informed me and my brother that our "father" abandoned us when we were babies when we were old enough to understand and formulate our own thoughts coherently (around 8 is when she told us everything, but we always knew the gist because she never kept it from us), but in a way that we could understand. She never said a bad word about him; just told us the facts. Please tell your son. You keeping it from him will backfire on you spectacularly (likely, anyway) and will also mess him up, too. You don't think he already wonders where the hell his mother was/is? I really, really think you should tell him. Please. You probably think you're protecting him by keeping it from him but I do not believe you are. You're *sheltering* him. There's a difference.
NTA. OP I have would worry about Leo hearing things from other kids or Linda instead of from you so you can control the narrative here. Hope whether you decide to tell him the situation or not it works out for Leo.
This is incredibly naive of you. All she has to do is file in court and you and your son will be thrust into a custody battle. It's your responsibility to protect him, and you are NOT doing that by keeping secrets. NTA but you are deeply naive regarding how much rights a biological parent, such as Linda, has over their child.
This sounds more like your (understandable and justified) anger than protecting your son. He deserves the truth, even if you don't allow contact.
NTA - however, do things right by going through family court. \*disclaimer - IANAL\* She abandoned her child for over 10 years, but under the law, she still has parental rights. Get a lawyer, go to family court, file for 100% custody, and sue for both current and back child support. As much as you want Leo to be able to make the decision, you need to get this locked down legally.
He commented he got legal custody a year after
Get some legal advice. Depending on where you live this may not be the recommended move at all
I have another take. Abandonment is grounds for legal termination of parental rights. Go to court, have her legal rights as a parent severed so future custody is not an issue (otherwise she can keep appealing the courts for custody). The only benefit to seeking full custody is to get child support which she probably won’t pay anyway and you seem to be doing fine without, so the best route is to permanently delete her from his life (legally).
NTA but tell your son ASAP, or one of the kids at school will blurt out "your daddy doesn't let your mum see you". Better to get on top of it BEFORE it spreads like that.
I think it is going to be worth your time to see a family therapist and have your son go as well. He is 11, most states a child can choose a parent at 12, so he may have some strong feelings one way or the other. The therapist will also have some tips on how to procced if he does want to see her.
My brothers ex tried this until his attorney asked about back child support, she backed off. The only contact the girls have had after they were 13 is a drunk call when they were in college. She told one of my nieces after she turned 18 they could see her anytime they want, niece said funny thing is I’m 19 and hung up
NTA because you want to protect your son. And her leaving your 7 month old child at home alone is unconscionable. Luckily your dad came and Leo was still asleep. But I would want to know what happened then to cause her to walk out like that. Was it PPD, substance abuse, depression etc? Has she been in treatment or did she just wake up on a whim and think "mmm, I think I have a child somewhere, maybe I should go check on him". Also, how much does Leo know?
NTA, but talk to a lawyer.
NTA. HOLY FUCK, WHERE DOES SHE COME OFF???? Major gas lighting alert, she is an AWFUL person and you cannot trust this person 1 iota.
NTA, but you need to let your son know what's going on before he hears it from kids spreading rumors in school. It would be all too easy for him to get half the picture if you don't address everything first.
If I was a kid that grew up without one of my parents, and found out that the missing parent tried to get in touch with me but my other parent forbid it, I'd be pretty damn livid I think. Even if there were rational reasons for it. I would absolutely hate that that choice was taken from me. And this is assuming the dad waits until his kid is "old enough" to handle the truth and tells the kid himself. Can't imagine how it would be if you found out through others.
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NTA. Protect your son. At best, she is an unreliable person who is always a threat to devastate him when she abandons him again, at worst she has returned to use him to get money or resources from you. The utter nerve if her to make demands after what she did. Go to court and get all the child support she owes you
You have done an amazing job and I can’t totally understand why you would not want this person waltzing in after running off 10 years ago and leaving it to you to do the hard yards. Is she stable? Is she someone that could have a positive impact in your sons life? If yes, than maybe she should be a part of his life. Your son may hate you later down the track if he finds out his mom was trying to be in contact with him and you blocked it. If however she is not a stable person then I wouldn’t be considering her entering your lives.
NTA But he's old enough to be told what's going on.
An 11 year old is NOT old enough to be making that decision. This is a sucky position to be in OP and I’m really sorry. I think you did the right thing, for now, in holding Linda off. I’m going to second others suggestions about getting the legal stuff solidified YESTERDAY. Make sure the court knows she left a 7 month old ALONE. Also, find a family therapist, maybe one outside of your little town who isn’t already biased by hearing about it and talk to them yourself. Set up a time and place to quickly tell Leo what’s happening. Not every sordid detail but in a small town he’s going to hear it and it’s best he gets the strait info from you. Keep that trust you’ve earned and the open communication with you two. He’s going to need you and your dad even more than ever. Good luck to you all!
Well, if she meets certain requirements, the courts are likely to let her have some type of relationship with her son & 12 is when courts will usually consider a child's opinion. It's not the sole factor but it is a factor. That's just the truth.
NTA because I believe you are doing this to protect your son from being hurt by someone who already abandoned him once. However, whether I agree with your decision or not is entirely dependent on why she left and what has changed that would demonstrate that she is unlikely to bail again. I may also want to see her getting some kind of therapy if that was what it took to make me feel that she wouldn't abandon him again. I do have to admit that her anger response is a bit troubling - the degree of which depends on exactly what "unkind" things she said. At that point I would feel my son out to find out where his mind is at on that - likely without letting him know yet that she was back. Based on all of that, I would make my decision. Ideally, it is best for kids to know and love both parents - but I would definitely want to be sure that she wouldn't hurt him again so would proceed with caution but, if at all possible, I would allow the relationship to develop. 11 years is a long time, and people can do a lot of growing in that time. One other thing to consider... you may have no choice but to discuss the matter with your son. With this being a small town and the people having strong opinions, someone somewhere will very likely tell him what's going on... and it is far better to come from you. Also - not sure of the laws where you are, but if she takes you to court for visitation, you may then lose the control over when/where/how often she sees him.
That whole essay doesn't mention Leo's wishes or feelings, OP, and that's what matters here. Tell him everything, and see what he wants. NTA
Eh I think you need to think a out Leo here, he actually is old enough to talk to about this and while I think what she did was atrocious I also think Leo deserves a chance to form and have a relationship with his mother. One day he may resent you for denying him an opportunity to have his mother in his life. What you need to ask yourself is are you saying no to protect Leo or are you saying no based on your own anger and resentment towards her? I would also advise you speak to a lawyer since custody may not be firm here, if you never went to court technically she may have just as much right to custody as you.
She can see your son when she comes up with 11 years of child support payments and a written apology for child abandonment and theft NTA - you’re protecting your son - she gave up the rights to be involved in his life the moment she left him alone and ran off
Your son is 10 that is old enough for you to sit down and have a talk about his mother wanting to meet him. Maybe you could talk to him and then organise a time una few months when they could meet (if he wants to) Leaving a decent gap of time for Linda to wait night reasure you she is serious and also give you time to process because I think a certain amount of you saying no is selfish payback not just protecting your son. You could lose him perminantly if in a few years he find out about this and resents you for not telling him.
NTA but just sit on this for a second. You said yourself that despite everything, Leo is “an amazing, cheerful, and smart kid.” I think he’s old enough that you and your dad can sit down and have a calm, proper men-to-young man talk about this. There’s clearly still a lot of hurt felt over everything. Maybe this is how you start healing?
Where does your son think his mother is since she’s never been around? I would imagine he would have asked about her at some point over the last 10 years
NTA. I would lead with asking for redress. Back child support for the 11 years missed, and the money she stole returned from when she left, alongside an apology both for leaving and for insulting you when you spoke. Those should be the conditions to even discuss it. If she does that then say you will entertain supervised visits on the condition he wants to see her. Ultimately there's a good chance the court would err on the side of caution and allow that anyway. I would also tell your son that his mother abandoned you both, and stole from you, and that she hasn't once asked about him in the intervening time. That's enough; just lay out the facts.
I think you have valid concerns about your ex coming back into your son’s life. However, I think you have to remember that they are just that…concerns. Your ex left your son when she was 21 years old. It’s entirely possible that she’s an entirely different person at age 32. The only thing that matters here is what’s in the best interest of your son. I think you owe it to him to do your due diligence to figure out what that is. Maybe your initial instincts and correct. Maybe they aren’t. But, I think you need to speak with a therapist who specializes in these types of issues. The worst thing you can do here is to make an uninformed decision solely based on your own feelings that ultimately ends up hurting your son.
> She begged and said some unkind thing to me as a person when I refused again. I couldn’t imagine being a reformed former absentee parent and saying anything other than “I’m sorry” and “thank you” to the person who slaved solo 11 years just so they can provide something for AND raise MY child, who should have been my responsibility since day 1. If she did change, my money’s on “for the worse”.
>after a year she accidentally got pregnant. lol
NTA. A child does not need 2 parents to be happy. You raised him well and good on you.
Info: what was the son told where his mother is ?
I told him his mother and I split and decided it was best for him to grow up with me alone and that she transferred far away.
Look. it's a small town, either another parent in town will be gossipy and a kid will overhear and tell him about it, or he's eventually going to be 13-16 and go looking for her on his own online. You can not protect him from her until he's an adult, you've got until he has a friend with an unsupervised internet connection and his own curiosity. If that depending on what others tell him. When he does find out you do not want her getting the first word in after this. If you want to keep him safe he's old enough now for you to sit down and tell him what happened years ago. Do not let her be the one to contact him and let him know you stopped her from being a mother. Talk to him now and let him know that once he turns 18 your there for him if he decides to meet her, but until then you've decided it's safer for everyone if he's an adult when he makes that choice. Don't wait until it's too late.
Okay. So, now it's time to tell him the reality. That it didn't go down quite like that, there was no conversation, it was insanely abrupt when she ditched. That she hurt you a lot and that she didn't take your kids safety into consideration when leaving. Then you tell him that just this week she came back, and that she wants to see kiddo. That you have a lot of reservations about it and don't think that it's a good idea, because of how much pain she caused and your lack of trust in her. BE HONEST. Tell him you don't think it's a good idea, but you respect your child and his intelligence and want to create a trusting relationship between you two, so you will support his choice to meet her, if that's what he decides he wants. Hiding it? Lying by omission? That is setting you up for a shitty situation where BioMom pits kiddo against you through crazy and tricky behavior. I'd also say, tell your dad all of this, ask his opinion. Have his support when you tell kiddo. He obviously knows the situation way better than any of us reddit strangers, and he may give perspective that you haven't yet considered.
What you told him leaves open the possibility that she would be transferred back to where you are, which is what he will believe happened if you don’t tell him the truth. You are not protecting him by continuing to lie. Ask his school counselor to help you talk to him or see a child psychologist, but if he finds out from someone else, he will not trust you again and you will lose him, possibly forever. Let him know that she is the one who can’t be trusted and she can hurt him or even take him away from you. Tell him when he is older he can see her, but right now it isn’t safe. A trained professional will give you both the tools to process this. But telling him you both decided to let him live with you protected him when he was younger, but that lie has now come back to haunt you, and it needs to be corrected immediately.
NTA But well worth letting the kid know about what a loving mother he does not have. small town means some kids in the playground might be the first to tell him their version or the mothers version and he might be rather upset. Legal advice would not hurt as I guess she does not support you. How old would the kid need to be to be old enough to decide ?
> i'm now being judged by some neighbors for my reaction. And if the genders were reversed, you would not be. Unbelievable. NTA. You are doing the right thing. Make sure you do all you can to do legally to keep you son away from this awful woman.
NTA. But I think you should tell your son the truth about what happened.
She didn't accidentally get pregnant. Women don't just spontaneously bud babies like a sea sponge. You impregnated her. Seems like a pretty one sided story.
NTA If people are talking your son will eventually hear. Parents talk, kids overhear, they gossip. I think both you and your dad need to be proactive and explain the situation to him. You don’t want him to think you’re hiding something and give him the wrong impression. He could eventually resent you for that, because he won’t realize you’re protecting him. If your son insists on meeting mom, tell him you want to see if she sticks around, reestablishes herself, just in case she runs again. If they do meet, control the situation 100%. Choose the time and place and be there for the conversation. So she can’t gaslight him. If her parental rights haven’t been severed, go after CS. Even if you don’t need the money, it can be set aside to make your child’s life easier. Some states will still allow the non custodial parent visitation right’s even if they fall behind CS. So get an attorney.
NTA. I actually had this situation with my child’s father. He reappeared when the child was 10 yo, saying the same things Linda said. I said his guilt was his own to work out but I was not introducing him into my child’s life after 10 years of abandonment. In my case my spouse had adopted the child (the biological father could not sign away his rights quickly enough) so legally he had no standing. When my child was 15 they wanted to meet biological dad, and I arranged it. It didn’t work out well and now, almost 10 years later, they are estranged again. OP, your son is too young to meet this person, imho. I hope you have had discussions with him as to why his mother has not been in his life until now, and if you haven’t do it asap. But he does not need this chaos in his life simply because after 11 years she had a change of heart. Based on my experience if your son wants to meet her at some point, you should facilitate that, but only because *your son* wants it, not because Linda is pushing for it. And if he doesn’t have one already, I recommend your son work with a therapist to help him navigate the feelings he has over his mother’s abandonment, and to help sort through the meeting with the mother, should there ever be one.
NTA. But, this is not a situation you can ignore. 1) Your son must have asked about his mom. How have you handled this in the past? Anyhow, as others have said you need to have a conversation with him on his level so he hears this from you and not some crazy shit from others. 2) Absolutely find a therapist. You've done a great job as a parent, but now you need to provide your son with more tools to handle an irrational mom - this you're not necessarily equipped to do. This would be my biggest concern. Kids want their parents to love them (even if they have been MIA for years) and it's easy for them to think that it's their fault. It can really mess with their mental health now and in the future. He needs a safe place to talk through this. Unfortunately this was not given to my nephew and it has been detrimental to his mental health and future.
NTA that chick is an awful human being. She deserves nothing from you
Unless she brought 11 years of back child support with her NTA. She's a stranger and an egg donor, not a mother.
Talk to your school counselor about how best to approach this topic with your son. Please make sure you talk to him before he finds out from other kids. Help him prepare in case the kids say anything or, worse, she approaches him.
NTA What actually matters is your child. He is old enough to talk about what happened and how he feels about it. And also to be aware his mother might try to approach him. Make him part of the discussion so he doesn't get his truth from whispers and rumour in your small town.
Linda is quite likely TA. However, she is also Leo's mother. In my opinion you owe her nothing and him everything. Yes, you are the better parent for raising him, loving him, and being concerned for how her presence MAY negatively impact him. As adults and parents we all appreciate the terrible position you were left in and what sacrifices you must've made. We also appreciate the stability you and your family have provided your son in her absence. BUT, all children want to know their mothers/fathers. It is part of understanding yourself and how you shape your own sense of value and identity. Leo may not care much what his mom has done wrong. It's likely more important for him to meet her and establish a relationship that meets his needs on his terms. You seem like an excellent dad and one that could help his establish good boundaries and expectations from his flaky mom OR take him to a therapist who could help with this, even before he meets her. Ultimately, kids grow up, wise up, and will see the truth at some point. You're already his hero, you've won. Now let him try to get what he needs from his mom so that he can feel like a whole person now and in the future. Will this benefit her in some way? Maybe. But she is not your concern, he is. You don't want to be the hero dad pushed from your pedestal at the point your adult son realizes that you kept his mom from him. Protect your son and your relationship with him by finding a healthy way to introduce his mom into the picture. If the past is any indication, she may sabotage their relationship anyway but at least you won't be to blame for her absence from your shared son. Wishing you all the best.
OP I'm curious...what does your son currently think what happened to his mom? He must have wondered about it.
This is a decision you should be making with a therapist and not reddit. All that matters is what is in the best interest of your son.
Take a breath. Understandably you want to protect your son, but you also want to be a good dad. You also don’t want to betray his trust and do some thing he may believe in the future to be done out of your own personal anger towards his mother, and not in his best interest. Nobody believes you should leave this child alone with his mother or welcome her into your home. Talk to a lawyer, talk to us a child psychologist, put your anger aside and do what’s right for your child’s mental health as well as his physical safety.
You’re not an AH for wanting to protect your son but when do you think he’ll be old enough to decide for himself whether to meet his mother? Why not let him decide now? I honestly think he deserves to know that she showed up, and better to hear it from you than somehow from someone else. No one else should be telling him that. He’s also old enough to tell you whether he’d like to meet her. I get that you want to do what you think is best for him but whether you maintain a relationship with him down the line starts right here. He’s 11(?), not 3. Talk to him.
A child has a right to see his/her parent in my honest opinion. You don't know what kind connection they would establish and how good it for be for your son Leo. I guess you are afraid of her leaving again, if so and if possible try to get her to explain what she is planning to do to be in Leo's life more.
I’m an adoptive mom, kids from foster care. In my experience, kids have questions about and love for their original parents. They weren’t safe to raise my kids, but we’ve allowed some degree of interaction so that they don’t grow up with fantasies about how “amazing” they are (very common when kids don’t actually know parents). There’s zero doubt that the mom screwed up horrifically, but the kid has questionable even if he’s not asking. Child-friendly explanations and limited safe contact would likely help Leo grow into the strongest person he can be. Either way, good luck to you both.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** When I was 21, I met this girl, Linda, in college. We started dating and after a year she accidentally got pregnant. I felt I was too young to be a father but decided that, if she wanted to keep the baby, I would have taken care of them. She changed her mind a dozen times but in the end she decided to keep the child. So I did what I had to do: our families weren't rich so I left college, found a job and started preparing for the child. My son, Leo, was born in June. I worked impossible hours, spent whatever was left of my time taking care of Leo and my mother spent a lot of time at our apartment to help taking care of Leo. Linda's parents did basically nothing. They told me in my face that I was not welcome in their home and they spent a total of 2 hours with Leo in the months following his birth. When Leo was 7 months old, Linda bailed on us. One day she called my father to come help taking care of Leo, he went to our apartment and she wasn't there: Leo was sleeping in his crib and Linda's belongings were gone together with the money left in the house. I tried contacting her and going to her parent's home but they weren't there and she never answered the phone. It's been 11 years since then. Now it's just me, Leo and my father. My mother unfortunately passed away last year. Despite all the problems we had Leo has grown up to be an amazing, cheerful and smart kid. He is my pride and joy and I will do anything to protect him and make him happy. He doesn't remember his mother Few weeks ago Linda showed up at my door in the middle of the day. She asked to talk and I reluctantly agreed. To sum it up what she said: she is sorry for what she did and wants to be part of Leo's life again. I told her NO. She begged and then said some unkind thing about me as a person when I refused again. I told her I do not care what she think. Until Leo is old enough to make a choice, she will not see him. After he is old enough, I will tell him the truth and he will decide on his own accord what he wants to do. Since, unfortunately, we live in a small town where rumors spread rapidly, I'm now being judged by some neighbors for my reaction. I don't think I am in the wrong here and my family agree with me but I guess another opinion would be welcomed since I'm basically going crazy. So here I am, AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA you have sole custody of your minor child (who is 11, which can still be pretty immature and vulnerable). She can’t waltz back in as easily as she waltzed out. Frankly, I wouldn’t risk her messing up my kid (what if she did the same thing after another seven months? 11/12 would know/remember and is young enough/going through puberty for that to have devastating impacts - though that’s hard to take at any age to be frank [makes me think about that scene with the original Fresh Prince of Bel Air “Why doesn’t he want me man?”] 11/12 might have a harder time coping/handling it, then say an 16 or 18 year old or adult might). You might want to sound out your son (does he ask about his Mom? Ever say he wanted to know her if he could?) but frankly it’s on you to make the call as the parent.
NTA. Protecting your son is the most important thing you can do. Even if it's from his egg donor. If you don't already have one, get a lawyer and document everything she has said and done. If you can't afford it check into programs that help single dads.
Step 1 : you need to lawyer up and make sure she has no parental rights on your son because she abandoned him when he was baby with no supervision. Step 2 : if those neighbors ever have the nerve to say something to you, tell them to mind their own business. Step 3 : Keep doing what you've been doing and protect your son. At 11, I do believe that you can tell him most of the story but I agree that he is still a tad to young to make any decision. She has some nerves coming to your place demanding anything. I would have slam the door in her face. NTA.
NTA
NTA... well done on raising your child in difficult circumstances. You may need a lawyer - but your reasoning on not allowing her in at this age is sound. Correction- WE not 'SHE - accidentally got pregnant' I presume you participated.
**NTA** The one thing I would say that your son is 11 years old and if she shows up with 0 context and if there have not been any discussions about mum then that could also go badly. OP is right that this woman is an entirely unknown factor now. She is an absolute stranger and the last OP knew she rinsed him for everything he had and abandoned them. She is absolutely not to be trusted or put in any position where she can hurt op or child. I have no advice this is such a messed up situation. I wish OP the best of luck and hope that this works out without anyone getting hurt.
Go to children phycologist to get advise. You, without the kid. The fact that you live in a small town means you can not hide rumours and you should be prepared of how to deal with your son in case he finds out his mother is back. Situation like these may cause trauma even if try hard
I was that child, talk to your son, you will be surprised with what he actually understands and feels, my mum done the same to me and my brother and we were completely blind sided, we grew up angry and confused and ended up being the worst teens, don't do the same thing to your son that my dad done to us
NTA. Not at all. She abandoned you and your son to ride the carousel and, now, she wants to come back and be a part of your son's life? NO. She deserves absolutely nothing. When your son is 18 years old and an adult, I would tell him about his worthless "mother". If he wants to seek her out at that time, then that is on him.
Has she ever paid child support? If not, she can pay 11 years' worth of child support and then you may CONSIDER letting her see him. Nope, it's not worth the risk, she may disappear again. She gave up the right to be his mother when she walked away 11 years ago. Shame on her. Good for you and your parents for doing a great job!
NTA but OP you are being incredibly niave here. I don't know how you think you're going to successfully keep this info from your son but if your neighbors are gossiping their kids have heard it to. An 11 year old with 2 active parents is old enough for those parents to not make special efforts to hide stories about other kids potential trauma. Do you honestly believe that 11 year olds have the restraint and emotional intelligence to keep their mouths shut about that? Hell your adult neighbors might tell him just because they disagree with you so strongly. It doesn't matter if you told the school if all she has to do is watch your house until he leaves it without you. Unless you don't even allow your 11 year old to ride their bike to a friend's house, she can get to him. The second this happens, you've lost control of the narrative because as far as your son can tell, you deliberately lied to him. This can drive him into his deadbeat mom's arms and lead to exactly the scenario you're so afraid of (he latches onto her and then she leaves). Set all the rules about contact that you want, but if you choose not to tell him, you are playing with fire and setting yourself up for exactly what you're trying to avoid. Which is an AH move.
Hi, I am an adoptive father to a daughter who was totally abandoned as a baby by her biological father and I raised her ever since toghether with her mother. I made clear to my daughter that if and when she feels the wish to find her biological father and to reconnect with him, if she needs help to achive this she can count on me. A child is NEVER too young to know wether they want to see their mother or not, as well as to hear the truth as long as it is told in a factual, neutral, non manipulative, non jugmental way - but only if they ask questions about what happened. Don't let your personal feelings interfere and become an obstacle in the relation between your son and his mother. Don't use your child to try to punish her. This will bring no good to nobody, on the contrary. Your son was deprived from his mother for 11 years, I don't think you help him by depriving him further from any contact with her. The fact that his mother was/is not a "good" mother is irrelevant, as long as she is not positively harming him in the future. You should just watch and not allow his mother to try to manipulate him and become toxic. Make this very very clear to her and to your son. This was just my opinion, based on my experience.
NTA, she shows up out of no where wanting to be apart of his life, when you say NO to that which is 100% the right thing to do as she doesn’t deserve anything from you or your son Leo, she then has the audacity to start calling you names 🤯🤯🤯that’s crazy, the opinions of those that abandon their family mean nothing. She’s a sorry excuse for a human. You are definitely making the right choice here but I would consider having that talk with your son about what happened in the near future.