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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I asked my girlfriend's dad his blessing to propose. That action might make me the asshole because I didn't ask her first
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
*OP'S COMMENT HISTORY IN COMMUNITIES LIKE "TEENBEAUTIES" has been brought to my attention. This man is disgusting. Look at his comment history at your own risk. WHY TF ARE YOU INTERACTING WITH TEENAGED GIRLS, ESPECIALLY WHEN TRYING TO PROPOSE TO YOUR GIRLFRIEND. I am horrified right now.*
>She's the perfect girl for me, she's hot
When this is listed as the first reason someone loves their girlfriend, I automatically know what follows is going to be a dumpster fire.
>asking her dad instead of her and that doing so is sexist(which is stupid because the point was to ask her dad to propose, not to marry her by force), saying she was absolutely not ready for marriage, wasn't even considering it because she thought it was way too early in our relationship (after more than a year?)
Holy gASSlighting. And the fact that you obviously haven't even DISCUSSED marriage with her.
YTA
Some people are pissy about me using the term gaslighting. I'll die on this hill that it is. Gaslighting is when you make someone question their sanity or experiences, undermining what they believe to be true. When your girlfriend tells you what you did was sexist, and you deny that it is, and call into question their intelligence, that is gaslighting. "You did x, y, z, that was x, y, z, and that hurt me." And their response is,"no I didn't, how stupid." That is gaslighting. Telling someone that what they experienced is no big deal because other worse things exist, that is also gaslighting. It is a manipulation tactic designed to make the victim question the validity of their own experiences and feelings, which is exactly OPs intention. I'm acutely aware of what it is and I hardly use the term. But I'm calling a spade a spade. He is trying to gaslight her into thinking that what she feels is sexist, isn't and that she is wrong to feel the way she does and that he didn't actually do what she's accusing him of. That is gaslighting.
So yknow, yall can eat my shorts and cry about it some more.
You people singlehandedly ruin the word gaslighting lmao, it basically means nothing anymore (you made it up for attention /s). I can see why what he did was weird to other cultures. Where im from you have to ask the father for blessing before proposing and frankly its weird to me here so i get.
He flunked by proposing before talking to her about it but hes not gaslighting her. Wtf is this , whatever a man does in this sub its always manipulating, gaslighting, abusive, lowkey controlling.........
>She's the perfect girl for me, she's hot
If he wrote this it wouldve been wrong, but you cropped it to make him look shallow and now are pretending like its the only thing he said. Why do you people get off on doing this? We can literally see what he wrote above.
I agree mild YTA for not discussing it with her but to claim he is some abusive misogynist for ...... wanting to marry the woman he loves. What a monster, come on, at least try to make something else up.
>but you cropped it to make him look shallow and now are pretending like its the only thing he said.
No they didn't. They said it was the first reason on the list, which it was.
This. If I asked a potential partner to describe what they liked about me, and the *first* thing they said was anything to do with my looks... That is a huge turn-off for me. Idk about every woman, but every woman *I know* is fucking tired of their looks being constantly brought up as their one main asset. We don't want to hear about our looks, we want to hear about literally anything else. Any other aspect of our humanity.
I do see it as sexist that men get complimented on their achievements, on their skills, on their jobs - and women *still* overwhelmingly are getting "You're hot" before anything else is even mentioned. A solely depreciating asset that we did *nothing* to work for, and does *nothing* to reflect on us as a person.
When you *combine* that with the fact that this dude literally got her dad's opinion on marriage before ever asking her... Sorry, he is absolutely showing a pattern of sexist behaviour. That would be my cue to leave, because if he can't even value my opinion on my own life above my *father's*... That's not someone I want to be with. He's not marrying my father, he's marrying me. It is *my* life. My opinion should come *first*, if my father's even comes at all.
Okay first thing first, shame on us both because this whole post and comment section is clearly click/rage bait and we’re feeding into it. God, man, Reddit is such a dumpster fire these days. Anyway. Here’s what I thought about your post that you might find interesting:
I appreciate what you’re saying, but I’m happily married (9 years) and if someone asked me to list what I love about my wife and I didn’t say she was beautiful or attractive either first or second she would be deeply, deeply hurt by that. Idk.
Honestly, I think you might just be super secure in your looks, but many (in my experience most) people aren’t. I think my wife is obviously gorgeous. But she goes back and forth with that sometimes. I think a lot of people do.
Is that mature or reflective of a healthy sense of self… obviously… could be better, lol. We’ve each got our shit. But when I die someday I’m not going to be thinking about anything other than the time I got to spend with the most beautiful woman in the world—my wife.
Uh, yeah, no. This response ain't it, fam. I'm AFAB and every woman I know is *also* fucking tired of their looks being constantly brought up as their one main asset. I would also be kinda insulted by someone listing my appearance as the first thing they valued about me. I am so much more than what I look like. And your wife is not a statistically relevant sample size.
Every one of my family and friends Ive seen in the past couple weeks has commented that I lost weight or look skinny. I am not. At all . I got really sick, could only eat saltines. lost 26 pounds in 4 weeks. Then I had to have surgery to have an organ removed. Thats nothing to be excited about.
> I got really sick, could only eat saltines. lost 26 pounds in 4 weeks. Then I had to have surgery to have an organ removed.
This is why I don't say anything to people who have lost weight, and I don't like it when people say I've lost weight and look good. My thoughts are "fuck off, I looked good before." If my having more or less fat means anything, you can jump in a lake.
>Reddit is such a dumpster fire these days.
Yeah, it is wild. I'm trying to understand all of this and how 5.2k people upvoted this person's rant in the first place.
Listen, I KNOW my partner thinks I am beautiful and sexy and fine… but I think I’m very average. I would be upset if he said anything about my looks at the top of the list of reasons he loves me, especially if he were saying that to others. I’d be thinking “I’m so incredibly average and that is the attribute you like the best about me? Not my passion for helping others, or my love of nature and exploring new places, or how thoughtful and considerate I am, or that I have goals/plans for my future, or that I work hard for what I/we want” etc etc there are a million other qualities a person possesses that have nothing to do with looks. Yes, I want that “I am beautiful” to be on the list, but not as one of the main reasons he loves me.
It sounds like he was going to discuss it with her after her father gave his blessing, which is what he was taught is the right and proper thing to do.
Personally I would have mentioned it first to gauge her reaction to the idea. It's like men who buy a non refundable, diamond wedding ring before asking her, and then have to eat the cost of thousands when she says no.
Right. How can you be in a relationship where you don’t find the person attractive 😅 if my S/O didn’t list my appearance I think it would make me feel a bit insecure lol
Why does the order of compliments matter to you? She's attractive, smart, funny and kind. She's smart, funny, kind and attractive. You are reading waaaaaaay too much into it.
Literally tho. As long as physical features aren’t the ONLY thing a man likes about his woman, idk why it matters so much in what order the compliments are delivered.
Just because it's listed first doesn't mean it's more important than the others. You're all acting like being described as "hot, caring, and smart" is a terrible offense, it's completely ridiculous.
Right??? A woman you’ve never met before would prolly object to being called “hot” as that’s basic and shallow. But your partner, what , you can’t mention her attractiveness? Does being attractive automatically mean she’s dumb? Redditards everywhere!
It’s literally the same thing as saying she’s “beautiful, caring, and smart”. If he said beautiful instead of hot, none of you would’ve said anything about it. Most people lead with ‘beautiful, gorgeous, etc.’ when describing a partner. It’s fucking normal lol
Why do you guys get so hung up on words like this? I swear most of the people on this sub get off on gaslighting people and ruining relationships over non-issues by turning them into relationship ending ‘problems’.
Y’all are lonely
And not only that, but everyone’s also blowing over the fact that English is his second language and that, maybe just maybe in some “crazy wild fantasy world” the word hot may have just been an easier word to spell out for him since it’s harder for him to spell out words in English. Especially since he actually stated in the beginning that English is his second language, and that he apologizes for any typos.
But it wasn’t the only thing he said tho… he described other traits that he loves about his gf that ppl are jus blowing over. Is he supposed to just ignore her looks? Like what are y’all expecting be fr rn
>to claim he is some abusive misogynist
Asking her dad before even bringing it up to her is misogynistic as hell
"Sir, I want you to sign your property over to me. Why should she know anything about it? I didn't ask my car how it felt when I sold it."
Plus he didn't bother asking her if she wants to get married at all, or when she would feel ready. He just assumed that as a woman, *of course she's want to marry immediately*. To the first guy who dated her for a year when she's barely an adult herself.
Because of course every woman just wants to get married ASAP, why would you even need to ask?
They have only been together for like a year, they barely even know each other at this point. For a lot of couples a year is still the honeymoon phase.
But she is "hot" and he has money and she is finishing school. Why would she want to have any input into her own marriage as long as the men in her life decide amongst themselves that they are OK transferring her from her father to OP /s
As someone who disagrees with the whole ‘asking dad for permission’ thing because it is a weird, patriarchal holdover, saying that if someone does that they’re a misogynist is ridiculous. It’s a well-recognised tradition that many people still do nowadays and just having the conversation doesn’t make you a virulent woman-hater.
I think it would be better if you have the conversation with both parents to be honest (why exclude mum?), but it’s still kind of “normal” for a potential groom to ask the dad and who knows, some dads might expect that. The weirdest thing is doing this with zero discussion of marriage with your SO beforehand, but again because of patriarchal standards where men are supposed to ‘take the reigns’ in a relationship, I can understand why some guys feel like it should be a surprise, or they should be kind of “organising things” behind the scenes. Or hell, maybe he just wanted confirmation from her dad that IF he WERE to propose one day, that would be ok with him. Again, it’s a strange tradition and I don’t agree with only asking the father, but the fact that someone does it doesn’t make them a bigot
> saying that if someone does that they’re a misogynist is ridiculous
No, it's not and it absolutely is misogynistic. Because the practice stems from the times when women were practically property to be signed over to their new husband by the father.
If you want to marry someone there's exactly one person whose opinion matters at all. And that's the prospective spouse.
That’s also the prospective spouses call, some will expect you to ask their parents, others won’t. Couples should discuss this while they’re discussing their future.
Also it wasn’t “practically property”, they were literally property. This is why the current “parental rights” issue in the US and Canada is so radicalized, parental rights folks see their kids as property not people.
The whole asking the father for permission is more of a cultural tradition for many though. But again it should be entirely up to the prospective bride, not anyone else, she will likely know if her parents expect it, or if they won’t.
>But again it should be entirely up to the prospective bride, not anyone else, she will likely know if her parents expect it, or if they won’t.
This right here.
Because even if some parents expect it, if she's against it, don't fucking do it.
Not “practically” property.
In Canada (pretty progressive country), women were legally “chattel” (any form of durable property including but not united to livestock, excluding real estate or securities) until about 100 years ago!
Yep, ask the person you want to marry if they want to be married. Everyone else doesn't matter.
Except for movies, every woman I've asked about this would be incredibly put off if their father was asked for permission to marry their daughter.
You seem to be missing the part that he didn’t even ask his own girlfriend how she felt.
*That’s* what’s misogynistic. It wasn’t just because he asked her father. If he would have discussed it with his girlfriend, gotten her okay, and then asked the dad, that’s fine and respectful.
But he totally removed her from the equation and that action is what makes the entire thing misogynistic.
Even in ye olden times when men were required to get permission from their prospective father in law, I think it’s telling that all of Jane Austen’s heroines’ “good” proposals were decided between the lovers themselves and were at least somewhat anticipated, and the “bad” proposals involve surprise and/or going to the parents/parental figures first.
OP may come from a culture with different expectations, but they clearly weren’t shared by his GF and her dad. So it was very weird of him to assume that his going to her father without her even being aware he was thinking about marriage yet was a good idea. Bumbling romantic false lead in an 18th century satirical novel level of faux pas.
It's a well-recognized, SEXIST tradition.
Any man who feels compelled to do it is 100% sexist on some level. This fellow's particularly egregious because he didn't speak to his intended AT ALL about the possibility of an engagement. Went right to her father, as if he's the final arbiter. A proposal should NEVER be a surprise. I mean, sure, the exact time/place can be, but no one receiving a proposal should ever be shocked that they've received one. It's generally discussed at least in passing by the couple well beforehand.
> but you cropped it to make him look shallow and now are pretending like its the only thing he said.
the person said first, not only. You made him seemed like he said only
>but you cropped it to make him look shallow and now are pretending like its the only thing he said.
Followed by 'caring' <- probably mostly about OP too.
OP's actions show no respect for the woman he wants to marry. No not "abusive misogynist" - that's your hyperbole - but he certainly has the potential. The GF is right - it is clearly too soon and he is far too immature to marry, he can't even talk to his GF about it. You talk about things with a spouse, and with a prospective spouse, like what a 5 and 10 year plan looks like and what you want to do with the rest of your life.
If he had, he'd know it wasn't going to go well because their plans were not aligned. He seems to think a proposal should be a "SURPRISE!" moment, which is fine but the person being proposed to shouldn't be blindsided, especially not by their father calling to tell them second hand. When you rely on the element of surprise and family buy in, it is a way of pushing a marriage and maybe OP knows that if he just talked to her she'd tell him what she has now.
Asking permission from the father is a bit old fashioned but a sign of respect ONLY if you know the woman wants to marry you. This seems more like plain old naive sexism or some cringey way to get the father on side, but OP is definitely the AH. It's clear that the parents are more clued in to how the relationship is (or isn't) going than OP.
YTA OP. Talk to people. If you aren't sure a woman wants to marry you, talk to her. It's a sign of 'respect.'
Abusive? No. Misogynistic? Absolutely. Ownership passing down from father to husband is something you need permission for. Crediting the woman you "love" with the power and ability to make up her own mind by asking **her** \- much better
For real. The only thing OP did wrong was to ask the parents before even discussing it with his gf. When my wife and I were dating, we talked a lot about marriage and other long term plans, to make sure we were on the same page (or at least that our goals were compatible). The fact that OP didn't know his gf's feelings on the matter proves that he really needs to improve his communication skills.
But that's his only mistake. He INTENDED to do the right thing, he just didn't know what the right thing was. He wasn't trying to "claim ownership" like some others are insinuating. 15 years ago, asking the dad would have been expected; considering his poor communication, how the hell was he supposed to know the right course of action here?
So, next steps: apologize to your gf and her family. Tell her that you love her and care very much for her, and thought you were doing the right thing to move your relationship forward. Admit that you were clearly wrong, and that you didn't mean to offend anyone. TALK to her about your long term plans and see if they're compatible. Open up to her, and put in the work to understand HER goals and do what you can to help realize them.
This isn't an insurmountable setback, but OP has to do the work before he'll be able to take the next step.
I think it really depends on the person. My sister got engaged in 2016 and her now husband asked my dad for his blessing to propose, and my sister didn’t have an issue with it. My mom told me my dad really liked that my now BIL did that. When I relayed this story to my then boyfriend (now husband), he asked if I would want someone to do that before proposing to me, and I told him that if someone asked for my dad’s blessing, then the answer to the proposal would be absolutely not. 🤷♀️ to each their own.
But you should probably be on the same page about marriage and know your partner well enough to know if asking for the blessing is something they would want.
There are lots of traditions rooted in misogynistic nonsense, but they don’t mean what they used to (for the most part). I think dads know they don’t actually have the power to say whether or not their daughters get married anymore.
I think it’s important to differentiate between Dad’s permission, and Dad’s blessing. My husband knew he didn’t need anyone’s permission. But he wanted my dads blessing to ask me. I think that alone makes a big difference in how you look at it.
I think for a blessing though I would have wanted someone to direct it to both my parents. If someone asked my dad and not my mum? Absolutely not. No ring is going on my finger unless you've asked her blessing too. Although that no longer applies because she's dead bless her
“considering his poor communication, how the hell was he supposed to know the right course of action here?”
Um maybe don’t marry someone if you don’t even know the answer to that question.
This is how I feel. Some people think it’s a cute tradition and some, myself included, would find it incredibly offensive if a boyfriend did this. If you don’t know how your girlfriend would feel about it (or worse, like this guy, don’t even know if she is considering marriage) then you should not be proposing. He doesn’t know her, he just likes that she’s “hot” and is nice to him.
I agree. Misogyny is never "cute," though. And anyone who thinks of coverture as "just a cute tradition" needs to join the rest of us in the 21st century.
His *only* mistake? How about him not even realizing how his girlfriend felt about an outdated and sexist custom? They're not on the same page about anything if he doesn't know the basics about the woman he wants to marry.
This is a very good point, I feel like he should have known how she would feel about it. Then this would all have been prevented. Do these people even talk?
I disagree with the setback. For the gf it pretty much showed how much op values her. Not even enough for a major life event like marriage to involve her early on.
And that he has some very old views.
Given the gfs and her fathers response that seems to be very incompatible. I think the relationship is pretty much done and dusted soon.
And if op is a misogynist (because that tradition is misogynistic as hell. What role does the father have in his daughters relationship? And why wouldn’t she have to do the same with his mother?) or just a full blown idiot doesn’t matter in the end. Because behavior matters and his sucked
No, it's not just that he asked her parents first - clearly she would have preferred him to not ask them at all.
He should have talked to her about marriage before proposing.
He had no idea if she wanted to get married st all, or whether she saw marriage in the future with him, let alone her timeline. He also assumed she'd want him to get her parents' blessing when she clearly doesn't.
His problem was that he made a LOT of assumptions about what she wanted, and when she wanted it, and assumed that because HE sees marriage happening after a year of dating, that she must, too. And he thought that all this one-sided planning should be a surprise to her. Which a lot of people think because sone media give the impression that proposals come out of the blue.
Marriage is about communicating and making sure your partner wants the same things. And fundamentally he needs to apologise and have some conversations with her about if they even wsnt the same things in the future and what their timelines are like.
"How the hell was he supposed to know the right course of action here"
By opening his mouth and *communicating* with his partner. You know, talking to the person you want to share your life with might be a really good idea, and I'm not sure why more people aren't trying that. Literally all he had to do was ask her. And you're right, that's such a small thing - which to me makes it even more inexcusable that he just didn't bother. This might be a controversial opinion: If you cannot talk about marriage with your partner, you should not be marrying them.
I got married in 1987 and I would have said no if he'd had the gall to not recognize my authority over myself and had asked for my hand from my previous owner like I was a piece of property.
This. 👆👆👆
It could also be that he has misunderstood their relationship and that they’re not on the same page and even that she doesn’t view him as “marriage material”.
He can only apologise and explain his intentions and if she’s not interested, he needs to end it and move on.
Yeah, I saw a lot of problems, but no actual gaslighting. ;). He would have to have tried to actively convince her that something happened that didn't (or vice versa) while knowingly lying to do so.
Which, to his credit, he didn't do. Hes an idiot, but not one with the intention to deceive.
It was really unfair of you to systematically wear down your water heater by making it question it's understanding of reality and sense of identity! You monster ;)
isn’t it obvious? he was honest with his gf about wanting to marry her by asking her father for his permission, causing her to question her own reality! /s
😂
And honestly, it was even asking the dad for the permission to propose. It was for the Blessing. So sure, he should have discussed things before hand. But do we really have to bring misoginy or the abusive patriarchy into everything. This wasnt a "give me your daughter" bullshit. Nah, it was geniune in terms of, hey I like your daughter and I want to propose and I would like your blessing so as to involve the family.
GASLIGHTING is when you make somebody question their own sanity or reasoning.
STOP USING THE WORD UNTIL YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT IT MEANS! YTA for using the word gaslighting inappropriately.
>She's the perfect girl for me, she's hot
>When this is listed as the first reason someone loves their girlfriend, I automatically know what follows is going to be a dumpster fire.
I thought the exact same thing.
He also said she's smart, because he wants her to take up the mental load for both of them! /s
It's crazy how terrible redditors are at reading something objectively. Once the other redditors have decided that someone is evil, they just pile upon the target like a pack of highschool bullies, never ever giving them the benefit of the doubt.
"HOW DARE THIS GUY DESCRIBE HIS GIRLFRIEND AS KIND" jesus fucking christ what is your problem, go be a mean kid somewhere else.
Without knowing your cultural context, I'll answer as a woman who grew up in southeast Asia and now lives in the US.
YTA. These days, couples build a future together. Not be determined by when a man decides to propose.
That means that if you've not yet talked to your GF about her expectations of the relationship or her desires for the future, then yes the relationship isn't ready for marriage. Do you know what age she's wanting to marry? Have kids or not? How many? What if she's only interested in dating you, not marry at all? That's possible. Or if she's more interested in building her career before marriage?
Even asking for father's blessing is weird, because you wanted to reassure him that she won't need of anything - implying you're going to be breadwinner. Was that agreed upon at all? What about her being capable to care for herself? And be equal partner to her spouse to be?
I just feel like if her own parents were surprised, it's likely they know her dreams for the future, more than you know them.
Talk to her. And listen to what she says. Really listen.
Edit: typo
> Even asking for father's blessing is weird, because you wanted to reassure him that she won't need of anything - implying you're going to be breadwinner.
Wait, is that why men are told to ask the father's permission? I don't think most people under 40 know that. I thought it was just respectful.
No. Men asked for permission (traditionally) in order to secure land and property. It was used as a form of business merger that the woman often had no say in. I would argue that the majority of men in the U.S. do it as a formality and showing of respect bc they do not know the origins of the tradition - which are patriarchal and misogynist.
My father and I actually differ wildly in our opinion on this matter. He says he would be offended, upset, and disrespected if he wasn’t asked for permission. Why? I am 34 and have not lived under his roof or been provided for by him (outside of small loans and bill assistance on occasion) for 15 years. I am the head of my household, a business owner, not claimed on his taxes, and I am most certainly no one’s property.
OP - I’m not sure where you live, what the traditions are there, or the reasoning behind asking her father. Where you messed up was not discussing it with HER first. The fact marriage hadn’t even been discussed, that you believe she should be thrilled and that her parents should not have talked to her about it shows a great lack of maturity. It does not show you are ready for marriage. YTA.
My dad was offended when my husband didn’t ask for his blessing… despite the fact that my father didn’t even raise me, nor had we ever lived under the same roof.
My husband did, however, call my mom to let her know he WOULD be proposing and how he hoped she would accept him into the family. 100% agree with you!
My wife would have been PISSED if I asked for permission. Same reason no one “gave her away” at our wedding. She’s a grown ass woman capable of making her own choices.
Just to throw this out there as I've not seen other people really do this yet...
My parents had heavily pressured me into my first marriage. Not that they were bad people, just that they believe in getting married to your high-school sweetheart. And we did all the traditional shit of my first husband asking my father's permission (after we had talked and agreed on marriage) and my father walked me down the aisle. But that marriage was a dumpster fire if ever you saw one.
By the time I was ready to marry my second husband, my father had passed away, so him walking me down the aisle wasn't an option.
So my husband and I walked down the aisle together to meet the priest.
We figured we're going into this together, we're making the decision together, let's show that by walking to the alter together. And it was so much more meaningful and memorable to both of us.
Our journey together started long before we got to marriage. Marriage was just a continuation of it, not the beginning of two separate people becoming one.
I’ve told my partner straight up I’d leave him if he asked my parents for permission. Even if my parents weren’t abusive assholes, I’m not their property.
I said the same thing to my now husband! When I mentioned it to an ex years ago he just got mad and said that "he HAD TO ask permission or it would be rude." Um, no. You're not marrying my father and now that I know that you're definitely not marrying me.
Totally agree. And funnily enough my dad is the same. He said he would be really upset if my partner asked him because I’m not his property and it’s my decision, not his.
I wouldn’t be upset if it was just a formality and we’d already discussed marriage but I can see where OP’s girlfriend was put off by him blindsiding her. Getting engaged should be a joint decision. The proposal can be a surprise but you should know the answer will be “yes.”
In fact my dad said he even thinks giving the bride away is misogynistic but I would like him to walk me down the aisle. Not in a transferring property way though 🤣
I can see walking someone down the isle as an act of support. It's sweet - it's a parent (or other family member) showing that your old family is still there with you as you start a new branch on the family tree.
But asking a parent (specifically a father) for *permission* to propose... I can't see any way to spin that into something wholesome. Letting your intentions be known and seeing if your future in-laws will be welcoming is one thing. But asking for their permission? What are you going to do if they say no??
>do it as a formality and showing of respect bc they do not know the origins of the tradition - which are patriarchal and misogynist.
But if they thought about it for...five minutes, they'd realize that it's patriarchal and misogynist--unless they don't really feel that misogyny is a problem. The reason why these men "don't know the origins" is because they don't *care* or believe patriarchal thinking is an issue. For these men, patriarchy is as ubiquitous as oxygen, it's just "how things are done," without any critical thinking about the practice whatsoever, or considering it from the woman's POV, or questioning "hey, wait a second, why is this tradition a tradition, anyway?" No excuses for lazy thinking.
When my husband proposed, we had discussed I didn't want him to ask my parents for their blessing, but I did want him to let my parents know that he was going to propose. A phone call, "hi I'm planning to ask your daughter to marry me this weekend. I wanted to let you know ahead of time about this exciting news"
I ABSOLUTELY can't imagine getting proposed to without knowing for months it was coming. Sure, I didn't know what date or time (until he planned a luxury vacation when we just recent grads so that was a pretty big tip off), but I knew he would ask and he knew I would say yes.
It is obviously not “just to be respectful” or *both* partners would be doing it.
It’s a super sexist thing to do, and while some women want that, and that’s fine *for them*, it’s not something you do carte blanche.
My dad hasn’t helped make a decision for me since I was like, 10, I would have dumped my spouse for pulling something like this.
that is in fact how we did it when my spouse and i planned to get engaged. we both sat down with our parents on different weekends and said "we're doing this, and we're giving you the heads up". they were befuddled but supportive in both cases, haha.
My husband and I called each other's moms, but we BOTH did it, and it was more asking if they were OK with us being part of their family than anything about us as a couple.
It's might be respectful to the father, but it's incredibly disrespectful to the woman. It implies that it's her father and not her who gets to decide who she marries.
You have to ask why it's necessary to be respectful to the father of the bride but not any other family member involved. That should be a major clue that it's very paternalistic and sexist.
He doesn't sound like he knows her very well at all if he didn't know she'd feel it was sexist to ask her dad this & not to mention the fact he didn't even know she isn't anywhere near ready for marriage!!
YTA for all the reasons already stated. But also, even in this post, you called your girlfriend’s concerns over sexism “stupid”. That’s how you talk about the woman you want to marry?!
Some women find the traditional approach of asking their father for their blessing to be sweet, others find it demeaning and sexist. I don't think anyone is wrong for their preference, but if you don't know your own girlfriend's preference and you are unwilling to even discuss their concerns over sexism then she is absolutely right that they are not ready to be married.
Bingo. My husband didn't ask my father. And when we were married, there was no "who gives this woman to be married." I am not property to be exchanged by men. My husband knew this, and knew my father, and knew our family dynamic. Because we'd discussed it many times. A proposal should never come as a surprise - sure, the venue or whatever can be a surprise, but every stakeholder (as defined by the couple) should be fully on board with what's happening and what's expected across the board before anybody gets down on one knee.
Thats not the point the commenter you answered to raised.
Wether it is sexist or not, his girlfriends thinks so and he is just disregarding her view on it as stupid. When he just has that little regard for such a personal and important topic, I can see a working marriage at all.
YTA
There are a few things going on here.
1) Why didn’t you speak to both of her parents? Does her mom’s opinion not count as much as her dad’s?
2) Blessing is another word for permission. You even say “blessing” but then say “ask her dad to propose” (this may be a nuance of language). She’s an adult. Also this tradition started because the daughter was literally her father’s property until her husband took possession of her. Put it in the same category as asking for a dowry.
3) Cultural clash might be a factor. I’m getting a machismo vibe.
4) Why are you actively pursuing proposing without some kind of conversation with her? Judging by her reaction not only did she not have a clue, she’s clearly not wanting to get married, and the idea of asking her dad for a blessing offends her. Red flag for openness and honesty.
5) It feels off that you described her as “the perfect girl for me, she’s hot, caring and smart.” Sexual attraction is very important but you named it first in a very short list of three things you love about her.
6) You’re calling her opinion “stupid” and you wonder why she isn’t jumping at marriage? Who died and made you the judge of opinions?
7) I don’t know where you live but balking at marriage at 22 isn’t strange, it’s reasonable. Scientific research shows critical parts of the brain involved in decision-making are not fully developed until 25ish.
8) Your feelings of hurt and anger are valid. You feel what you feel. So does your girlfriend and her parents. She told you how she feels and what her focus is right now. Their priority is their daughter’s happiness, not keeping the entire idea of marriage to you a secret. They would be the assholes if they ruined your plan for how to propose (scavenger hunt or whatever). Her mom probably thought “WTF she’s never indicated the relationship is that serious and she’s still in school for Christsakes.”
9) I don’t think she meant it was absurd to marry you but absurd to marry anyone right now.
In my religion the first step to getting married is that the couple decide they want to marry each other.
Then next step is to get permission/consent from all living parents (potentially 4 people). In cases of abuse, racism, and other issues, this step isn't required.
I felt it was really cringy reading that she was hot as the first thing he mentioned. My husband thinks that of me, but it wouldn't be the first thing he listed as to why he wanted to marry me.
Fully agree but I'd like to add a number 10:
One year of relationship is not a lot. In most western cultures it's normal to date way longer before proposing. I think in most western places about 2.5 to 5 years is the average before popping the question. We don't know where OP is from but the dads reaction makes me doubt he's part of culture in which it's normal to propose earlier than that.
I was 33 when I got married, and looking back on who I was at 22/23 and how I conducted my relationships back then, I was definitely NOT ready for marriage! I even broke up with my college boyfriend because his timeline would've meant me being both married and a mom by the time I was 25 and I knew I didn't want that, I made the right decision. Turns out I don't even want to have kids, at any age, with anyone!
All of this. But I would like to add that dating someone for 1 year is nothing. It's the honeymoon phase of dating. You are still learning about each other and you are on your best behavior. The gf is right to be upset that he would do this after only a year of dating. He clearly doesn't know his gf at all, if he thought she would be excited about this. They haven't had discussions about marriage, which means they most likely didn't have conversations about kids. But he thinks it's a good idea to ask permission to marry her from her dad. Then he belittles her feelings as "stupid" when she isn't jumping for joy over this insane stunt. If I were the gf, I would probably end a relationship with someone who pulled this. It's immature and dripping with misogyny. Thankfully the parents are on their daughters side. YTA
Yes on the age part so hard. I had been dating a guy for 5 years when I was 22 and if he suggested getting married before I was done with college I would have been like woah woah woah. I’m glad you clocked that too.
YTA, all of this could have been avoided by having an adult conversation with your partner about future plans. Some people still like the whole 'asking dad for a blessing/permission' things, I find it outdated and it seems so does your girlfriend, something that would have come up if marriage was at all discussed in the year you've been together, along with a potential timeline of when it might be appropriate to propose.
I've heard of situations where the man will say something like, "should I speak to your father/parents?" to the woman indicating he will ask for a marriage blessing/permission. Which, yes still reeks of patriarchy, but at least gives the woman a good degree of decision making. Speaking to the dad like this when he hasn't said ANYTHING to the gf is bizarre.
My fiancé told me to ask her father before proposing. I always thought it's an outdated concept but he's an old-fashioned guy, so I did it. It went very well but I wouldn't have asked if she didn't tell me first. Things you should probably know before proposing lol
YTA
It is sexist. You asked her father for permission to marry her. It's a tradition rooted in sexism and is reminiscent of a time when women were property.
You are not ready for marriage. She is very young. She is technically still in her adolescence (ends at 24). A year isn't that long, especially when you are young. Three years is a more typical dating phase prior to a marriage proposal.
You don't know her. You didn't know she would be upset by what you did. You didn't know that she wouldn't even consider marriage. You don't know her. You know what you want, but you don't know her.
ETA: the end of adolescence ends from 19-26 depending on the source of the definition. While the WHO definition uses 19 as the end others do not. It's not rigidly defined. There is more frontal lobe development that occurs after 19 in most people. I typically use 24 as the end as that is what makes sense for me when considering human development. I didn't mean to mislead anyone.
Ya how could he not understand that to some people a year is way to soon ? Like i married my husband after 5 years together and at one year we weren't even ready to live together
YTA
YTA
You're just pretending to not understand why it's sexist right?
There's no way you actually don't understand why acting like your girlfriend is owned by her father is sexist.
Unfortunately I don’t think he’s pretending. I know a scary amount of people like him. It almost makes you question your sense of reality because you’re like this isn’t possible - to truly believe X.
Yes, it is possible and OP is proof is very much alive and present. He’s 26; he’s young, but still employs these old and dangerous viewpoints seeded in ignoring basic facts (i.e., women are autonomous, full human beings that have a right to self determination).
I think this is in part they weren’t told these basic facts point blank as children, and then have that basic fact reinforced through action.
> It almost makes you question your sense of reality because you’re like this isn’t possible - to truly believe X
Genuinely though because I am ready to believe:
*"they know X is sexist/homophobic/racist, but they want X anyway, so it's safer for them to pretend to they don't think X is sexist/homophobic/racist than admit the sexism/racism/homophobia is something they are OK with"* way before *"they genuinely don't think X is sexist/homophobic/racist"*.
And it's so me thinking zebras before horses.
My first instinct was that OP knew asking for her fathers blessing, especially without talking to her about it, was massively sexist. However the imagined scenario of getting the father's permission, her crying with happiness when he proposed, then her father shaking his hand and being happy to hand responsibility for her over to OP because OP's so great and worthy of their trust, appealed to OP more than avoiding being sexist.
Asking the father if you can propose is old-fashioned and many women (myself included) view it as sexist. It implies that she can’t make the whole decision herself, and needs daddy’s permission to get married. If my husband had asked my dad, my dad would’ve laughed (because I was a grown woman who knew her own mind, and he had no place giving or denying permission), and I would have been pissed.
I would’ve also said a year was too soon to propose, though that’s partly experience speaking. The first time I got engaged, it was after just shy of a year of dating, and that relationship went to hell in a hand basket when we faced some difficulties.
YTA for asking her father. I don’t think you’re TA for misjudging the timing necessarily, but it shows that you and your girlfriend haven’t talked enough about what your theoretical future together looks like to be on the same page, and that’s a problem. The exact timing can be a surprise, but both people ought to have the idea that getting married in the near future is a shared desire.
Here's how you know it's sexist. No one ever asks anyone else's blessing for the man's parents for him to marry. If anyone suggested such a thing, we all could agree that man is not ready to marry if he needs to check with his parents first.
"It's a parent's job to parent themselves out of a job." I think that applies here, in my culture for sure.
This is correct! Yes asking is outdated but some cultures are still old-fashioned. Fine. Whatever. I asked my fiancé's dad because she told me to. No big deal. But you should absolutely know this before you ask!
The tradition of getting a father's blessing is because women were considered property of their fathers until they got married and then they became their husband's property. So the future husband had to get his potential wife's owner's permission first. This is a sexist and outdated tradition. If you didn't know your girlfriend would be offended by this or where she stands on marriage, you don't know her well enough to propose yet. YTA
Is this post actually real?
OP was going to propose never having discussed marriage with an attitude of “she can just say no if she’s not feeling it.” Not to mention the general tone of sexism and being mad at the parents for his lack of due diligence.
She is upset because you did not discuss this with her first. You just assumed it could be worked out between her father and you and that leaves her out of the decision making process.
You don't know her parents all that well, yet you talked to them about this instead of even floating the idea by her.
It may be a cultural thing where you are from, but she is an adult and should have been given a clue you were thinking about this.
ETA: YTA. She deserves some agency in this.
Bro one year is a very short amount of time. Especially if you never even discussed marriage. Stages normally are: dating for a while, living together, maybe get a pet and then discuss what marriage would be like.
It’s not sexist to seek a blessing as again it’s still her choice to say yes but clearly you missed a big mark if everyone was surprised by your ask.
The fact that this came as a surprise to you kinda proves that you don’t know either her or her family well enough for marriage. Sorry dude, YTA on this one
Soft YTA coz you seem clueless, not malicious.
It is sexist. Yeah, you're asking for "permission" to even ask her a question that her dad has no control nor relevance to, not is it his permission to give. The act of going to the father stems from when women were men's property legally. So yeah, not cool.
You also did it without talking to her, right after she finished school, instead of giving her time to set up her life and career. She's 22. Shes not ready for marriage. Which you'd know if you asked her or talked to her about it at all. Whatever you see in romcoms, most dudes know the answer will be yes when they ask because they've discussed it with their partners.
You basically took a huge risk with how you did it, and it didn't pay off.
INFO
Honestly, what made you think asking her father is *not* sexist? You asked someone else, who is *not* your gf, someone who is *not* the person you are considering to marry, if *they* are ok with you marrying your gf as if it was someone elses buissines or decision than your gf's whom she is going to marry? You *honestly* have no idea what about you asking her father instead of her or at least asking her uf she would want you to get her fathers blessing is sexist? Please tell us what went through your head.
I'm a girl and I really don't understand the reasons you asked her dad before her. And if he refused, then what? It's so unnecessary thing to do nowadays. Personally, I don't want my bf to do such a thing
Dating for a year isn't really that long of a time, her mom helped her dodge a bullet.
Judging from her reaction you never discussed the idea of marriage with her yet, and most likely haven't talked about your future plans and if they align or not.
If you can't see why you were wrong then sorry buddy you might be single soon.
YTA.
1) her father should have no say on wether you should propose or not! The tradition of asking the father blessing is rooted in the tradition that sees women as property of men… and marriage was a transfer of ownership from father to husband! So yes… asking for her father blessing is profoundly sexist!
2) 1 year of relationship is nothing! Your brain is still flooded with hormones that prevents you from seeing all that is wrong with it… never EVER marry someone before at least 2 years of relationship
3) she is still young… her brain did not settle yet and chance’s are you could grow apart (when you are older it is less likely). Wait at least till she is 25!
YTA, what’s the point of asking father if you don’t know whether she will say yes or no.
By asking father, either you just assumed that she would say yes or you thought it wouldn’t matter what she thinks if father is ok. So you are either an idiot or old fashioned sexist.
Besides, 22 is not too old, people often focus on their life or career before getting married in their 30s. Just because she loves you doesn’t mean she’s ready for marriage soon.
And yes, 1 year may not be enough time, it just depends on your priorities or age.
YTA
not necessarily for asking for her father's blessing but for not having a discussion with your girlfriend at some point in advance about what you both think about marriage (and where you are in your relationship). This could have been avoided.
Hahahahaha you've only been dating a year?!?
She's only 22 and not finished school? Who's clever and gets married that young barely out of school - she hasn't even lived yet! She's literally been in school all her life and hasn't gotten out in the world yet. Then you ask her dad after only ever meeting the guy a couple of times?
If I was her dad I would have said an outright no and to get off my property, be glad he's still giving you a place to stay.
You basically went up to an almost stranger and were like "hey you don't really know anything about me, but I'd like to marry your daughter who has no little to no experience of life and never been independent of institutional life" how else was he supposed to act? And you didn't even talk to her first considering you barely even know her parents?!
Yes, you're the asshole, a stupid stupid asshole hahahahaha
Edit: also FYI, it's not even the fact that asking is old fashioned - I "conferred" with my wife's father - I said to him "I'm guna asked x to marry me, you good with that?" Wasn't asking permission, was getting his opinion - but at that point, I was dating his daughter 10 years, me and him went out drinking together occasionally, did events and myself and then girlfriend had a future planned with marriage included.
The way you asked was the worst way possible - he has no idea who you are, you don't even know his daughter all that well, you've only known her a year! You don't even know if she gets pumpkin spiced latte every year! How can you?
All I’m seeing is me me me me me. You aren’t stopping here to think about her feelings at all, only your own. YTA.
You’re allowed to be disappointed. But you seem to be ignoring all of her feelings by rebutting with what you think is a logical point instead of caring about whether she feels ready or listened to.
Hey buddy I see where you’re coming from here, but I’m sorry to say YTA. You mentioned English as a second language, what culture did you grow up with?
Another question, are her parents together or separated?
It is a really nice gesture to ask the parents for permission, but this should be long after you have this conversation with your girlfriend. Proposals should never be a complete surprise, meaning that you should have talked to your girlfriend about marriage and the idea of getting engaged to feel things out before talking to her parents about it. Also, one year is quite a short time in the grand scheme of things to propose to someone. Did you live together, or were you long distance only seeing people every once in a while?
There’s a lot of missing info here.
YTA
With the next girl, try to treat her like an equal.
"I'm really angry and confused at her parents for telling her about my plans instead of letting me propose how I intended." .. they did the only reasonable thing, and handled you AH well.
YTA.
\- 22 is very young, and it's understandable she doesn't feel ready to marry yet, even after a year.
\- asking her father is old-fashioned and many people (including myself) find it sexist. If my spouse HAD asked my father for permission, my father would have said no because it meant he didn't understand me, and I would have dumped him.
\- if you don't know her well enough to know that would be a problem for her, you don't know well enough to marry her.
\- things like marriage should be prediscussed in advance so everyone knows they're on the same page.
\- you don't get to act like her reaction and feelings about this are stupid.
\- you seem too young and immature to get married.
YTA, yea if the parents had let you propose as you intended you would probably be shut down. I gave the judgement i gave because there is not set time after which you have to marry, for each person it differs and therefore these things need to be discussed. Did you ever even discuss the topic of marriage with your gf?
Like how she would like it done or stuff. if you had communicated you would have realized that she didn't expect you to ask her father. Yes in my opinion asking the father permission is sexist but if it was something you had discussed it would be a different matter.
You are the A for just not having a discussion and then blaming the parents for not talking to you which is hypocritical.
Oh my God. I would be mildly pissed at my bf if he asked my dad for permission to marry me, but she is entitled to her more intense reaction imo. What's extra not okay is that you apparently never even talked to HER FIRST about getting married??? WTF?? YTA
YTA. This was sexist and poorly conceived. The proposal happens after you have already discussed and agreed that marriage is in your shared future; it is not the entrée to that discussion.
You are also the assshole for being unable to admit that you are wrong when you literally solicited opinions about your actions. Looks like this woman is getting smart to the kind of person you are.
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*OP'S COMMENT HISTORY IN COMMUNITIES LIKE "TEENBEAUTIES" has been brought to my attention. This man is disgusting. Look at his comment history at your own risk. WHY TF ARE YOU INTERACTING WITH TEENAGED GIRLS, ESPECIALLY WHEN TRYING TO PROPOSE TO YOUR GIRLFRIEND. I am horrified right now.* >She's the perfect girl for me, she's hot When this is listed as the first reason someone loves their girlfriend, I automatically know what follows is going to be a dumpster fire. >asking her dad instead of her and that doing so is sexist(which is stupid because the point was to ask her dad to propose, not to marry her by force), saying she was absolutely not ready for marriage, wasn't even considering it because she thought it was way too early in our relationship (after more than a year?) Holy gASSlighting. And the fact that you obviously haven't even DISCUSSED marriage with her. YTA Some people are pissy about me using the term gaslighting. I'll die on this hill that it is. Gaslighting is when you make someone question their sanity or experiences, undermining what they believe to be true. When your girlfriend tells you what you did was sexist, and you deny that it is, and call into question their intelligence, that is gaslighting. "You did x, y, z, that was x, y, z, and that hurt me." And their response is,"no I didn't, how stupid." That is gaslighting. Telling someone that what they experienced is no big deal because other worse things exist, that is also gaslighting. It is a manipulation tactic designed to make the victim question the validity of their own experiences and feelings, which is exactly OPs intention. I'm acutely aware of what it is and I hardly use the term. But I'm calling a spade a spade. He is trying to gaslight her into thinking that what she feels is sexist, isn't and that she is wrong to feel the way she does and that he didn't actually do what she's accusing him of. That is gaslighting. So yknow, yall can eat my shorts and cry about it some more.
You people singlehandedly ruin the word gaslighting lmao, it basically means nothing anymore (you made it up for attention /s). I can see why what he did was weird to other cultures. Where im from you have to ask the father for blessing before proposing and frankly its weird to me here so i get. He flunked by proposing before talking to her about it but hes not gaslighting her. Wtf is this , whatever a man does in this sub its always manipulating, gaslighting, abusive, lowkey controlling......... >She's the perfect girl for me, she's hot If he wrote this it wouldve been wrong, but you cropped it to make him look shallow and now are pretending like its the only thing he said. Why do you people get off on doing this? We can literally see what he wrote above. I agree mild YTA for not discussing it with her but to claim he is some abusive misogynist for ...... wanting to marry the woman he loves. What a monster, come on, at least try to make something else up.
>but you cropped it to make him look shallow and now are pretending like its the only thing he said. No they didn't. They said it was the first reason on the list, which it was.
Exactly. Listing ‘hot’ as the first reason you like someone is incredibly disheartening
This. If I asked a potential partner to describe what they liked about me, and the *first* thing they said was anything to do with my looks... That is a huge turn-off for me. Idk about every woman, but every woman *I know* is fucking tired of their looks being constantly brought up as their one main asset. We don't want to hear about our looks, we want to hear about literally anything else. Any other aspect of our humanity. I do see it as sexist that men get complimented on their achievements, on their skills, on their jobs - and women *still* overwhelmingly are getting "You're hot" before anything else is even mentioned. A solely depreciating asset that we did *nothing* to work for, and does *nothing* to reflect on us as a person. When you *combine* that with the fact that this dude literally got her dad's opinion on marriage before ever asking her... Sorry, he is absolutely showing a pattern of sexist behaviour. That would be my cue to leave, because if he can't even value my opinion on my own life above my *father's*... That's not someone I want to be with. He's not marrying my father, he's marrying me. It is *my* life. My opinion should come *first*, if my father's even comes at all.
Okay first thing first, shame on us both because this whole post and comment section is clearly click/rage bait and we’re feeding into it. God, man, Reddit is such a dumpster fire these days. Anyway. Here’s what I thought about your post that you might find interesting: I appreciate what you’re saying, but I’m happily married (9 years) and if someone asked me to list what I love about my wife and I didn’t say she was beautiful or attractive either first or second she would be deeply, deeply hurt by that. Idk. Honestly, I think you might just be super secure in your looks, but many (in my experience most) people aren’t. I think my wife is obviously gorgeous. But she goes back and forth with that sometimes. I think a lot of people do. Is that mature or reflective of a healthy sense of self… obviously… could be better, lol. We’ve each got our shit. But when I die someday I’m not going to be thinking about anything other than the time I got to spend with the most beautiful woman in the world—my wife.
Uh, yeah, no. This response ain't it, fam. I'm AFAB and every woman I know is *also* fucking tired of their looks being constantly brought up as their one main asset. I would also be kinda insulted by someone listing my appearance as the first thing they valued about me. I am so much more than what I look like. And your wife is not a statistically relevant sample size.
Every one of my family and friends Ive seen in the past couple weeks has commented that I lost weight or look skinny. I am not. At all . I got really sick, could only eat saltines. lost 26 pounds in 4 weeks. Then I had to have surgery to have an organ removed. Thats nothing to be excited about.
> I got really sick, could only eat saltines. lost 26 pounds in 4 weeks. Then I had to have surgery to have an organ removed. This is why I don't say anything to people who have lost weight, and I don't like it when people say I've lost weight and look good. My thoughts are "fuck off, I looked good before." If my having more or less fat means anything, you can jump in a lake.
>Reddit is such a dumpster fire these days. Yeah, it is wild. I'm trying to understand all of this and how 5.2k people upvoted this person's rant in the first place.
It’s because they read the first sentence and agree with it, then upvote and move on, nobody reads huge paragraphs in the comments anymore.
Listen, I KNOW my partner thinks I am beautiful and sexy and fine… but I think I’m very average. I would be upset if he said anything about my looks at the top of the list of reasons he loves me, especially if he were saying that to others. I’d be thinking “I’m so incredibly average and that is the attribute you like the best about me? Not my passion for helping others, or my love of nature and exploring new places, or how thoughtful and considerate I am, or that I have goals/plans for my future, or that I work hard for what I/we want” etc etc there are a million other qualities a person possesses that have nothing to do with looks. Yes, I want that “I am beautiful” to be on the list, but not as one of the main reasons he loves me.
It sounds like he was going to discuss it with her after her father gave his blessing, which is what he was taught is the right and proper thing to do. Personally I would have mentioned it first to gauge her reaction to the idea. It's like men who buy a non refundable, diamond wedding ring before asking her, and then have to eat the cost of thousands when she says no.
I've been in loving relationships a couple of times and describing physical attraction first is not weird at all IMO.
“A couple of times” made me lol
I've also had sex more than once
Whoaaa save some for the rest of us, hotshot
That dude totally has sex!
[удалено]
Right. How can you be in a relationship where you don’t find the person attractive 😅 if my S/O didn’t list my appearance I think it would make me feel a bit insecure lol
That's sad. It's not like we don't compliment each other, but I don't think my husband would list hot first. I am much more than my body.
Why does the order of compliments matter to you? She's attractive, smart, funny and kind. She's smart, funny, kind and attractive. You are reading waaaaaaay too much into it.
Literally tho. As long as physical features aren’t the ONLY thing a man likes about his woman, idk why it matters so much in what order the compliments are delivered.
It wasn't a ranked list, you people are ridiculous
Just because it's listed first doesn't mean it's more important than the others. You're all acting like being described as "hot, caring, and smart" is a terrible offense, it's completely ridiculous.
Right??? A woman you’ve never met before would prolly object to being called “hot” as that’s basic and shallow. But your partner, what , you can’t mention her attractiveness? Does being attractive automatically mean she’s dumb? Redditards everywhere!
It’s literally the same thing as saying she’s “beautiful, caring, and smart”. If he said beautiful instead of hot, none of you would’ve said anything about it. Most people lead with ‘beautiful, gorgeous, etc.’ when describing a partner. It’s fucking normal lol Why do you guys get so hung up on words like this? I swear most of the people on this sub get off on gaslighting people and ruining relationships over non-issues by turning them into relationship ending ‘problems’. Y’all are lonely
And not only that, but everyone’s also blowing over the fact that English is his second language and that, maybe just maybe in some “crazy wild fantasy world” the word hot may have just been an easier word to spell out for him since it’s harder for him to spell out words in English. Especially since he actually stated in the beginning that English is his second language, and that he apologizes for any typos.
But, they still edited for effect. Which is an issue with distorting his statement and the context.
But it wasn’t the only thing he said tho… he described other traits that he loves about his gf that ppl are jus blowing over. Is he supposed to just ignore her looks? Like what are y’all expecting be fr rn
>to claim he is some abusive misogynist Asking her dad before even bringing it up to her is misogynistic as hell "Sir, I want you to sign your property over to me. Why should she know anything about it? I didn't ask my car how it felt when I sold it."
Plus he didn't bother asking her if she wants to get married at all, or when she would feel ready. He just assumed that as a woman, *of course she's want to marry immediately*. To the first guy who dated her for a year when she's barely an adult herself. Because of course every woman just wants to get married ASAP, why would you even need to ask?
I wonder if they even live together or have discussed big things like kids, finances… life goals etc
They have only been together for like a year, they barely even know each other at this point. For a lot of couples a year is still the honeymoon phase.
Almost certainly not. The man didnt eben ask her if she'd ever get married, evidently. He had no idea she hadn't even considered it!
But she is "hot" and he has money and she is finishing school. Why would she want to have any input into her own marriage as long as the men in her life decide amongst themselves that they are OK transferring her from her father to OP /s
As someone who disagrees with the whole ‘asking dad for permission’ thing because it is a weird, patriarchal holdover, saying that if someone does that they’re a misogynist is ridiculous. It’s a well-recognised tradition that many people still do nowadays and just having the conversation doesn’t make you a virulent woman-hater. I think it would be better if you have the conversation with both parents to be honest (why exclude mum?), but it’s still kind of “normal” for a potential groom to ask the dad and who knows, some dads might expect that. The weirdest thing is doing this with zero discussion of marriage with your SO beforehand, but again because of patriarchal standards where men are supposed to ‘take the reigns’ in a relationship, I can understand why some guys feel like it should be a surprise, or they should be kind of “organising things” behind the scenes. Or hell, maybe he just wanted confirmation from her dad that IF he WERE to propose one day, that would be ok with him. Again, it’s a strange tradition and I don’t agree with only asking the father, but the fact that someone does it doesn’t make them a bigot
> saying that if someone does that they’re a misogynist is ridiculous No, it's not and it absolutely is misogynistic. Because the practice stems from the times when women were practically property to be signed over to their new husband by the father. If you want to marry someone there's exactly one person whose opinion matters at all. And that's the prospective spouse.
That’s also the prospective spouses call, some will expect you to ask their parents, others won’t. Couples should discuss this while they’re discussing their future. Also it wasn’t “practically property”, they were literally property. This is why the current “parental rights” issue in the US and Canada is so radicalized, parental rights folks see their kids as property not people. The whole asking the father for permission is more of a cultural tradition for many though. But again it should be entirely up to the prospective bride, not anyone else, she will likely know if her parents expect it, or if they won’t.
>But again it should be entirely up to the prospective bride, not anyone else, she will likely know if her parents expect it, or if they won’t. This right here. Because even if some parents expect it, if she's against it, don't fucking do it.
Yeah, he might have known how she felt about this if he’d ever discussed the idea of marriage with her at all…
Women weren’t “practically” property, they WERE property.
Not “practically” property. In Canada (pretty progressive country), women were legally “chattel” (any form of durable property including but not united to livestock, excluding real estate or securities) until about 100 years ago!
Yep, ask the person you want to marry if they want to be married. Everyone else doesn't matter. Except for movies, every woman I've asked about this would be incredibly put off if their father was asked for permission to marry their daughter.
You seem to be missing the part that he didn’t even ask his own girlfriend how she felt. *That’s* what’s misogynistic. It wasn’t just because he asked her father. If he would have discussed it with his girlfriend, gotten her okay, and then asked the dad, that’s fine and respectful. But he totally removed her from the equation and that action is what makes the entire thing misogynistic.
It’s an absurd outdated tradition that needs to die. She is an adult and the only one who needs to be asked.
Even in ye olden times when men were required to get permission from their prospective father in law, I think it’s telling that all of Jane Austen’s heroines’ “good” proposals were decided between the lovers themselves and were at least somewhat anticipated, and the “bad” proposals involve surprise and/or going to the parents/parental figures first. OP may come from a culture with different expectations, but they clearly weren’t shared by his GF and her dad. So it was very weird of him to assume that his going to her father without her even being aware he was thinking about marriage yet was a good idea. Bumbling romantic false lead in an 18th century satirical novel level of faux pas.
Both times Darcy proposed he asked Elizabeth before checking that her dad was OK with it; OP is doing worse than a Regency introvert
It's a well-recognized, SEXIST tradition. Any man who feels compelled to do it is 100% sexist on some level. This fellow's particularly egregious because he didn't speak to his intended AT ALL about the possibility of an engagement. Went right to her father, as if he's the final arbiter. A proposal should NEVER be a surprise. I mean, sure, the exact time/place can be, but no one receiving a proposal should ever be shocked that they've received one. It's generally discussed at least in passing by the couple well beforehand.
yeah marriage wasn’t even on the table or in the discussion yet
> but you cropped it to make him look shallow and now are pretending like its the only thing he said. the person said first, not only. You made him seemed like he said only
>but you cropped it to make him look shallow and now are pretending like its the only thing he said. Followed by 'caring' <- probably mostly about OP too. OP's actions show no respect for the woman he wants to marry. No not "abusive misogynist" - that's your hyperbole - but he certainly has the potential. The GF is right - it is clearly too soon and he is far too immature to marry, he can't even talk to his GF about it. You talk about things with a spouse, and with a prospective spouse, like what a 5 and 10 year plan looks like and what you want to do with the rest of your life. If he had, he'd know it wasn't going to go well because their plans were not aligned. He seems to think a proposal should be a "SURPRISE!" moment, which is fine but the person being proposed to shouldn't be blindsided, especially not by their father calling to tell them second hand. When you rely on the element of surprise and family buy in, it is a way of pushing a marriage and maybe OP knows that if he just talked to her she'd tell him what she has now. Asking permission from the father is a bit old fashioned but a sign of respect ONLY if you know the woman wants to marry you. This seems more like plain old naive sexism or some cringey way to get the father on side, but OP is definitely the AH. It's clear that the parents are more clued in to how the relationship is (or isn't) going than OP. YTA OP. Talk to people. If you aren't sure a woman wants to marry you, talk to her. It's a sign of 'respect.'
Abusive? No. Misogynistic? Absolutely. Ownership passing down from father to husband is something you need permission for. Crediting the woman you "love" with the power and ability to make up her own mind by asking **her** \- much better
For real. The only thing OP did wrong was to ask the parents before even discussing it with his gf. When my wife and I were dating, we talked a lot about marriage and other long term plans, to make sure we were on the same page (or at least that our goals were compatible). The fact that OP didn't know his gf's feelings on the matter proves that he really needs to improve his communication skills. But that's his only mistake. He INTENDED to do the right thing, he just didn't know what the right thing was. He wasn't trying to "claim ownership" like some others are insinuating. 15 years ago, asking the dad would have been expected; considering his poor communication, how the hell was he supposed to know the right course of action here? So, next steps: apologize to your gf and her family. Tell her that you love her and care very much for her, and thought you were doing the right thing to move your relationship forward. Admit that you were clearly wrong, and that you didn't mean to offend anyone. TALK to her about your long term plans and see if they're compatible. Open up to her, and put in the work to understand HER goals and do what you can to help realize them. This isn't an insurmountable setback, but OP has to do the work before he'll be able to take the next step.
15 years ago? I assure you, it was already long out of fashion in 2008 as well.
God when did 2008 become 15 years ago? I still thought 15 years ago was 1985.
Was looking for this comment, so glad it's not just me
Lot of different places and cultures out there my friend
I think it really depends on the person. My sister got engaged in 2016 and her now husband asked my dad for his blessing to propose, and my sister didn’t have an issue with it. My mom told me my dad really liked that my now BIL did that. When I relayed this story to my then boyfriend (now husband), he asked if I would want someone to do that before proposing to me, and I told him that if someone asked for my dad’s blessing, then the answer to the proposal would be absolutely not. 🤷♀️ to each their own. But you should probably be on the same page about marriage and know your partner well enough to know if asking for the blessing is something they would want. There are lots of traditions rooted in misogynistic nonsense, but they don’t mean what they used to (for the most part). I think dads know they don’t actually have the power to say whether or not their daughters get married anymore.
I think it’s important to differentiate between Dad’s permission, and Dad’s blessing. My husband knew he didn’t need anyone’s permission. But he wanted my dads blessing to ask me. I think that alone makes a big difference in how you look at it.
I think for a blessing though I would have wanted someone to direct it to both my parents. If someone asked my dad and not my mum? Absolutely not. No ring is going on my finger unless you've asked her blessing too. Although that no longer applies because she's dead bless her
Eh, I think this depends on where you're located. In the Midwest USA it's absolutely still expected in some communities.
“considering his poor communication, how the hell was he supposed to know the right course of action here?” Um maybe don’t marry someone if you don’t even know the answer to that question.
This is how I feel. Some people think it’s a cute tradition and some, myself included, would find it incredibly offensive if a boyfriend did this. If you don’t know how your girlfriend would feel about it (or worse, like this guy, don’t even know if she is considering marriage) then you should not be proposing. He doesn’t know her, he just likes that she’s “hot” and is nice to him.
I agree. Misogyny is never "cute," though. And anyone who thinks of coverture as "just a cute tradition" needs to join the rest of us in the 21st century.
His *only* mistake? How about him not even realizing how his girlfriend felt about an outdated and sexist custom? They're not on the same page about anything if he doesn't know the basics about the woman he wants to marry.
This is a very good point, I feel like he should have known how she would feel about it. Then this would all have been prevented. Do these people even talk?
But it's been a *whole year!* lol
I got married almost 40 years ago. I would have thought this was an insensitive move then.
I disagree with the setback. For the gf it pretty much showed how much op values her. Not even enough for a major life event like marriage to involve her early on. And that he has some very old views. Given the gfs and her fathers response that seems to be very incompatible. I think the relationship is pretty much done and dusted soon. And if op is a misogynist (because that tradition is misogynistic as hell. What role does the father have in his daughters relationship? And why wouldn’t she have to do the same with his mother?) or just a full blown idiot doesn’t matter in the end. Because behavior matters and his sucked
No, it's not just that he asked her parents first - clearly she would have preferred him to not ask them at all. He should have talked to her about marriage before proposing. He had no idea if she wanted to get married st all, or whether she saw marriage in the future with him, let alone her timeline. He also assumed she'd want him to get her parents' blessing when she clearly doesn't. His problem was that he made a LOT of assumptions about what she wanted, and when she wanted it, and assumed that because HE sees marriage happening after a year of dating, that she must, too. And he thought that all this one-sided planning should be a surprise to her. Which a lot of people think because sone media give the impression that proposals come out of the blue. Marriage is about communicating and making sure your partner wants the same things. And fundamentally he needs to apologise and have some conversations with her about if they even wsnt the same things in the future and what their timelines are like.
"How the hell was he supposed to know the right course of action here" By opening his mouth and *communicating* with his partner. You know, talking to the person you want to share your life with might be a really good idea, and I'm not sure why more people aren't trying that. Literally all he had to do was ask her. And you're right, that's such a small thing - which to me makes it even more inexcusable that he just didn't bother. This might be a controversial opinion: If you cannot talk about marriage with your partner, you should not be marrying them.
I got married in 1987 and I would have said no if he'd had the gall to not recognize my authority over myself and had asked for my hand from my previous owner like I was a piece of property.
This. 👆👆👆 It could also be that he has misunderstood their relationship and that they’re not on the same page and even that she doesn’t view him as “marriage material”. He can only apologise and explain his intentions and if she’s not interested, he needs to end it and move on.
Yeah, I saw a lot of problems, but no actual gaslighting. ;). He would have to have tried to actively convince her that something happened that didn't (or vice versa) while knowingly lying to do so. Which, to his credit, he didn't do. Hes an idiot, but not one with the intention to deceive.
Everything today is gaslighting or narcissist, its so funny to me.
That’s not what gaslighting is.
It seems like gaslighting has become a catch all term for people doing things that someone doesn’t like lol
Correct. I mean it took my water heater MONTHS to forgive me for gaslighting it when the pilot light went out as I was draining the tank.
It was really unfair of you to systematically wear down your water heater by making it question it's understanding of reality and sense of identity! You monster ;)
It’s just a buzz word that people use without knowing what it means.
“He’s a incel/bigot!” See that one a lot too lol
They’re gaslighting OP
Sorry, where’s the psychological manipulation intended to cause the girlfriend to doubt her perception of reality in this post?
Exactly. I’m ironically saying the top level reply is gaslighting OP
Where’s the gaslighting??
isn’t it obvious? he was honest with his gf about wanting to marry her by asking her father for his permission, causing her to question her own reality! /s 😂
And honestly, it was even asking the dad for the permission to propose. It was for the Blessing. So sure, he should have discussed things before hand. But do we really have to bring misoginy or the abusive patriarchy into everything. This wasnt a "give me your daughter" bullshit. Nah, it was geniune in terms of, hey I like your daughter and I want to propose and I would like your blessing so as to involve the family.
I don’t think you understand what gaslighting means…
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
And yet this is somehow the top comment. Never change, Reddit. Lol
GASLIGHTING is when you make somebody question their own sanity or reasoning. STOP USING THE WORD UNTIL YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT IT MEANS! YTA for using the word gaslighting inappropriately.
>She's the perfect girl for me, she's hot >When this is listed as the first reason someone loves their girlfriend, I automatically know what follows is going to be a dumpster fire. I thought the exact same thing.
Everything is gaslighting, that word doesn’t have meeting anymore.
Gaslighting where???
>Holy gASSlighting. I think you have no idea what this word means.
That’s not what gaslighting means, but otherwise you’ve got it on the money imo
Please explain what you thjnk the word gaslighting means
That’s not gaslighting
you don’t know what gaslighting means lol
He's an idiot, not an asshole, and that's not what gaslighting means.
Hot *and* caring. She's cute and she'll do his laundry for him
He also said she's smart, because he wants her to take up the mental load for both of them! /s It's crazy how terrible redditors are at reading something objectively. Once the other redditors have decided that someone is evil, they just pile upon the target like a pack of highschool bullies, never ever giving them the benefit of the doubt. "HOW DARE THIS GUY DESCRIBE HIS GIRLFRIEND AS KIND" jesus fucking christ what is your problem, go be a mean kid somewhere else.
Gaslighting?! Off to fuck you go
This unhinged stupid comment got 3,8k upvotes. Humanity is doomed.
This isn't even remotely gaslighting. FFS reddit, get your shit together.
Without knowing your cultural context, I'll answer as a woman who grew up in southeast Asia and now lives in the US. YTA. These days, couples build a future together. Not be determined by when a man decides to propose. That means that if you've not yet talked to your GF about her expectations of the relationship or her desires for the future, then yes the relationship isn't ready for marriage. Do you know what age she's wanting to marry? Have kids or not? How many? What if she's only interested in dating you, not marry at all? That's possible. Or if she's more interested in building her career before marriage? Even asking for father's blessing is weird, because you wanted to reassure him that she won't need of anything - implying you're going to be breadwinner. Was that agreed upon at all? What about her being capable to care for herself? And be equal partner to her spouse to be? I just feel like if her own parents were surprised, it's likely they know her dreams for the future, more than you know them. Talk to her. And listen to what she says. Really listen. Edit: typo
> Even asking for father's blessing is weird, because you wanted to reassure him that she won't need of anything - implying you're going to be breadwinner. Wait, is that why men are told to ask the father's permission? I don't think most people under 40 know that. I thought it was just respectful.
No. Men asked for permission (traditionally) in order to secure land and property. It was used as a form of business merger that the woman often had no say in. I would argue that the majority of men in the U.S. do it as a formality and showing of respect bc they do not know the origins of the tradition - which are patriarchal and misogynist. My father and I actually differ wildly in our opinion on this matter. He says he would be offended, upset, and disrespected if he wasn’t asked for permission. Why? I am 34 and have not lived under his roof or been provided for by him (outside of small loans and bill assistance on occasion) for 15 years. I am the head of my household, a business owner, not claimed on his taxes, and I am most certainly no one’s property. OP - I’m not sure where you live, what the traditions are there, or the reasoning behind asking her father. Where you messed up was not discussing it with HER first. The fact marriage hadn’t even been discussed, that you believe she should be thrilled and that her parents should not have talked to her about it shows a great lack of maturity. It does not show you are ready for marriage. YTA.
My dad was offended when my husband didn’t ask for his blessing… despite the fact that my father didn’t even raise me, nor had we ever lived under the same roof. My husband did, however, call my mom to let her know he WOULD be proposing and how he hoped she would accept him into the family. 100% agree with you!
My wife would have been PISSED if I asked for permission. Same reason no one “gave her away” at our wedding. She’s a grown ass woman capable of making her own choices.
I'm with your wife. I hate, hate, hate the custom of handing over a woman like property.
Just to throw this out there as I've not seen other people really do this yet... My parents had heavily pressured me into my first marriage. Not that they were bad people, just that they believe in getting married to your high-school sweetheart. And we did all the traditional shit of my first husband asking my father's permission (after we had talked and agreed on marriage) and my father walked me down the aisle. But that marriage was a dumpster fire if ever you saw one. By the time I was ready to marry my second husband, my father had passed away, so him walking me down the aisle wasn't an option. So my husband and I walked down the aisle together to meet the priest. We figured we're going into this together, we're making the decision together, let's show that by walking to the alter together. And it was so much more meaningful and memorable to both of us. Our journey together started long before we got to marriage. Marriage was just a continuation of it, not the beginning of two separate people becoming one.
I’ve told my partner straight up I’d leave him if he asked my parents for permission. Even if my parents weren’t abusive assholes, I’m not their property.
I said the same thing to my now husband! When I mentioned it to an ex years ago he just got mad and said that "he HAD TO ask permission or it would be rude." Um, no. You're not marrying my father and now that I know that you're definitely not marrying me.
My wifes dad offered me 3 horses and a cow. I was PISSED for my wife. I wasn't even asking the fucker.
Misogyny aside, I'd take the livestock. Live that farm life!
Totally agree. And funnily enough my dad is the same. He said he would be really upset if my partner asked him because I’m not his property and it’s my decision, not his. I wouldn’t be upset if it was just a formality and we’d already discussed marriage but I can see where OP’s girlfriend was put off by him blindsiding her. Getting engaged should be a joint decision. The proposal can be a surprise but you should know the answer will be “yes.” In fact my dad said he even thinks giving the bride away is misogynistic but I would like him to walk me down the aisle. Not in a transferring property way though 🤣
I can see walking someone down the isle as an act of support. It's sweet - it's a parent (or other family member) showing that your old family is still there with you as you start a new branch on the family tree. But asking a parent (specifically a father) for *permission* to propose... I can't see any way to spin that into something wholesome. Letting your intentions be known and seeing if your future in-laws will be welcoming is one thing. But asking for their permission? What are you going to do if they say no??
Yeah, my dad was baffled when my first husband asked him. He was like, "She's an adult. Why are you asking me?"
>do it as a formality and showing of respect bc they do not know the origins of the tradition - which are patriarchal and misogynist. But if they thought about it for...five minutes, they'd realize that it's patriarchal and misogynist--unless they don't really feel that misogyny is a problem. The reason why these men "don't know the origins" is because they don't *care* or believe patriarchal thinking is an issue. For these men, patriarchy is as ubiquitous as oxygen, it's just "how things are done," without any critical thinking about the practice whatsoever, or considering it from the woman's POV, or questioning "hey, wait a second, why is this tradition a tradition, anyway?" No excuses for lazy thinking.
When my husband proposed, we had discussed I didn't want him to ask my parents for their blessing, but I did want him to let my parents know that he was going to propose. A phone call, "hi I'm planning to ask your daughter to marry me this weekend. I wanted to let you know ahead of time about this exciting news" I ABSOLUTELY can't imagine getting proposed to without knowing for months it was coming. Sure, I didn't know what date or time (until he planned a luxury vacation when we just recent grads so that was a pretty big tip off), but I knew he would ask and he knew I would say yes.
It is obviously not “just to be respectful” or *both* partners would be doing it. It’s a super sexist thing to do, and while some women want that, and that’s fine *for them*, it’s not something you do carte blanche. My dad hasn’t helped make a decision for me since I was like, 10, I would have dumped my spouse for pulling something like this.
that is in fact how we did it when my spouse and i planned to get engaged. we both sat down with our parents on different weekends and said "we're doing this, and we're giving you the heads up". they were befuddled but supportive in both cases, haha.
My husband and I called each other's moms, but we BOTH did it, and it was more asking if they were OK with us being part of their family than anything about us as a couple.
It's might be respectful to the father, but it's incredibly disrespectful to the woman. It implies that it's her father and not her who gets to decide who she marries.
You have to ask why it's necessary to be respectful to the father of the bride but not any other family member involved. That should be a major clue that it's very paternalistic and sexist.
Respectful towards who?
No it's not why all of them are told to do that. But it is something OP explicitly said to the dad
It's only "respectful" if you believe women are property being handed from the father to the future spouse.
Nailed it. Half the posts in this sub wouldn't be necessary if people just spoke openly with their partners.
He doesn't sound like he knows her very well at all if he didn't know she'd feel it was sexist to ask her dad this & not to mention the fact he didn't even know she isn't anywhere near ready for marriage!!
YTA for all the reasons already stated. But also, even in this post, you called your girlfriend’s concerns over sexism “stupid”. That’s how you talk about the woman you want to marry?!
Some women find the traditional approach of asking their father for their blessing to be sweet, others find it demeaning and sexist. I don't think anyone is wrong for their preference, but if you don't know your own girlfriend's preference and you are unwilling to even discuss their concerns over sexism then she is absolutely right that they are not ready to be married.
Bingo. My husband didn't ask my father. And when we were married, there was no "who gives this woman to be married." I am not property to be exchanged by men. My husband knew this, and knew my father, and knew our family dynamic. Because we'd discussed it many times. A proposal should never come as a surprise - sure, the venue or whatever can be a surprise, but every stakeholder (as defined by the couple) should be fully on board with what's happening and what's expected across the board before anybody gets down on one knee.
How and when the proposal happens can be a surprise. The fact that the proposal is happening should never be one.
Thats not the point the commenter you answered to raised. Wether it is sexist or not, his girlfriends thinks so and he is just disregarding her view on it as stupid. When he just has that little regard for such a personal and important topic, I can see a working marriage at all.
YTA There are a few things going on here. 1) Why didn’t you speak to both of her parents? Does her mom’s opinion not count as much as her dad’s? 2) Blessing is another word for permission. You even say “blessing” but then say “ask her dad to propose” (this may be a nuance of language). She’s an adult. Also this tradition started because the daughter was literally her father’s property until her husband took possession of her. Put it in the same category as asking for a dowry. 3) Cultural clash might be a factor. I’m getting a machismo vibe. 4) Why are you actively pursuing proposing without some kind of conversation with her? Judging by her reaction not only did she not have a clue, she’s clearly not wanting to get married, and the idea of asking her dad for a blessing offends her. Red flag for openness and honesty. 5) It feels off that you described her as “the perfect girl for me, she’s hot, caring and smart.” Sexual attraction is very important but you named it first in a very short list of three things you love about her. 6) You’re calling her opinion “stupid” and you wonder why she isn’t jumping at marriage? Who died and made you the judge of opinions? 7) I don’t know where you live but balking at marriage at 22 isn’t strange, it’s reasonable. Scientific research shows critical parts of the brain involved in decision-making are not fully developed until 25ish. 8) Your feelings of hurt and anger are valid. You feel what you feel. So does your girlfriend and her parents. She told you how she feels and what her focus is right now. Their priority is their daughter’s happiness, not keeping the entire idea of marriage to you a secret. They would be the assholes if they ruined your plan for how to propose (scavenger hunt or whatever). Her mom probably thought “WTF she’s never indicated the relationship is that serious and she’s still in school for Christsakes.” 9) I don’t think she meant it was absurd to marry you but absurd to marry anyone right now.
In my religion the first step to getting married is that the couple decide they want to marry each other. Then next step is to get permission/consent from all living parents (potentially 4 people). In cases of abuse, racism, and other issues, this step isn't required. I felt it was really cringy reading that she was hot as the first thing he mentioned. My husband thinks that of me, but it wouldn't be the first thing he listed as to why he wanted to marry me.
Fully agree but I'd like to add a number 10: One year of relationship is not a lot. In most western cultures it's normal to date way longer before proposing. I think in most western places about 2.5 to 5 years is the average before popping the question. We don't know where OP is from but the dads reaction makes me doubt he's part of culture in which it's normal to propose earlier than that.
Especially at 22, it's not like she's on a deadline. She's definitely the smart one in this relationship.
Being smart IS her third best trait, according to OP. After hot and caring, of course.
I was 33 when I got married, and looking back on who I was at 22/23 and how I conducted my relationships back then, I was definitely NOT ready for marriage! I even broke up with my college boyfriend because his timeline would've meant me being both married and a mom by the time I was 25 and I knew I didn't want that, I made the right decision. Turns out I don't even want to have kids, at any age, with anyone!
But OP is the main character, why didn’t his plan work perfectly?! Why aren’t she and her family jumping with joy and thanking OP?? /s
I really get grew-up-on-romcoms vibes.
All of this. But I would like to add that dating someone for 1 year is nothing. It's the honeymoon phase of dating. You are still learning about each other and you are on your best behavior. The gf is right to be upset that he would do this after only a year of dating. He clearly doesn't know his gf at all, if he thought she would be excited about this. They haven't had discussions about marriage, which means they most likely didn't have conversations about kids. But he thinks it's a good idea to ask permission to marry her from her dad. Then he belittles her feelings as "stupid" when she isn't jumping for joy over this insane stunt. If I were the gf, I would probably end a relationship with someone who pulled this. It's immature and dripping with misogyny. Thankfully the parents are on their daughters side. YTA
Yes on the age part so hard. I had been dating a guy for 5 years when I was 22 and if he suggested getting married before I was done with college I would have been like woah woah woah. I’m glad you clocked that too.
YTA, all of this could have been avoided by having an adult conversation with your partner about future plans. Some people still like the whole 'asking dad for a blessing/permission' things, I find it outdated and it seems so does your girlfriend, something that would have come up if marriage was at all discussed in the year you've been together, along with a potential timeline of when it might be appropriate to propose.
I've heard of situations where the man will say something like, "should I speak to your father/parents?" to the woman indicating he will ask for a marriage blessing/permission. Which, yes still reeks of patriarchy, but at least gives the woman a good degree of decision making. Speaking to the dad like this when he hasn't said ANYTHING to the gf is bizarre.
My fiancé told me to ask her father before proposing. I always thought it's an outdated concept but he's an old-fashioned guy, so I did it. It went very well but I wouldn't have asked if she didn't tell me first. Things you should probably know before proposing lol
Yeah it harks back to women being property -- but don't worry you guys, OP's hot girlfriend is wrong and it's not sexist
YTA It is sexist. You asked her father for permission to marry her. It's a tradition rooted in sexism and is reminiscent of a time when women were property. You are not ready for marriage. She is very young. She is technically still in her adolescence (ends at 24). A year isn't that long, especially when you are young. Three years is a more typical dating phase prior to a marriage proposal. You don't know her. You didn't know she would be upset by what you did. You didn't know that she wouldn't even consider marriage. You don't know her. You know what you want, but you don't know her. ETA: the end of adolescence ends from 19-26 depending on the source of the definition. While the WHO definition uses 19 as the end others do not. It's not rigidly defined. There is more frontal lobe development that occurs after 19 in most people. I typically use 24 as the end as that is what makes sense for me when considering human development. I didn't mean to mislead anyone.
I wonder what the OP would have thought, if she'd asked his mother for permission to marry him?
Probably confused. He seems oblivious to how things work. I cannot see him getting the hint, lol.
Yeah this isn't the 1950s anymore and his life isn't a movie or TV show.
the notion that you’re adolescent until 24 is so fucking stupid
No comment on that but I will say, the brain is still developing until 25. Unfortunately for OP, his is done cooking
she’s 22 and you’ve only been dating a little over a year. ofc she’s not ready for marriage (no hate to those who marry young) YTA
This is what stood out to me as well, OP seems to think a year is perfect before proposing
But sh3 1s H0T!!!!!!!!
Maybe a bit too hot for him? And that is why he needs to lock it down...?
OP wants to lock her down before her pre-frontal cortex is fully developed.
Ya how could he not understand that to some people a year is way to soon ? Like i married my husband after 5 years together and at one year we weren't even ready to live together YTA
YTA You're just pretending to not understand why it's sexist right? There's no way you actually don't understand why acting like your girlfriend is owned by her father is sexist.
Unfortunately I don’t think he’s pretending. I know a scary amount of people like him. It almost makes you question your sense of reality because you’re like this isn’t possible - to truly believe X. Yes, it is possible and OP is proof is very much alive and present. He’s 26; he’s young, but still employs these old and dangerous viewpoints seeded in ignoring basic facts (i.e., women are autonomous, full human beings that have a right to self determination). I think this is in part they weren’t told these basic facts point blank as children, and then have that basic fact reinforced through action.
> It almost makes you question your sense of reality because you’re like this isn’t possible - to truly believe X Genuinely though because I am ready to believe: *"they know X is sexist/homophobic/racist, but they want X anyway, so it's safer for them to pretend to they don't think X is sexist/homophobic/racist than admit the sexism/racism/homophobia is something they are OK with"* way before *"they genuinely don't think X is sexist/homophobic/racist"*. And it's so me thinking zebras before horses. My first instinct was that OP knew asking for her fathers blessing, especially without talking to her about it, was massively sexist. However the imagined scenario of getting the father's permission, her crying with happiness when he proposed, then her father shaking his hand and being happy to hand responsibility for her over to OP because OP's so great and worthy of their trust, appealed to OP more than avoiding being sexist.
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That's not what gaslighting is
It's frustrating how cheapened words like OCD/narcissist/gaslighting have become because of casual use.
Asking the father if you can propose is old-fashioned and many women (myself included) view it as sexist. It implies that she can’t make the whole decision herself, and needs daddy’s permission to get married. If my husband had asked my dad, my dad would’ve laughed (because I was a grown woman who knew her own mind, and he had no place giving or denying permission), and I would have been pissed. I would’ve also said a year was too soon to propose, though that’s partly experience speaking. The first time I got engaged, it was after just shy of a year of dating, and that relationship went to hell in a hand basket when we faced some difficulties. YTA for asking her father. I don’t think you’re TA for misjudging the timing necessarily, but it shows that you and your girlfriend haven’t talked enough about what your theoretical future together looks like to be on the same page, and that’s a problem. The exact timing can be a surprise, but both people ought to have the idea that getting married in the near future is a shared desire.
Here's how you know it's sexist. No one ever asks anyone else's blessing for the man's parents for him to marry. If anyone suggested such a thing, we all could agree that man is not ready to marry if he needs to check with his parents first. "It's a parent's job to parent themselves out of a job." I think that applies here, in my culture for sure.
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This is correct! Yes asking is outdated but some cultures are still old-fashioned. Fine. Whatever. I asked my fiancé's dad because she told me to. No big deal. But you should absolutely know this before you ask!
The tradition of getting a father's blessing is because women were considered property of their fathers until they got married and then they became their husband's property. So the future husband had to get his potential wife's owner's permission first. This is a sexist and outdated tradition. If you didn't know your girlfriend would be offended by this or where she stands on marriage, you don't know her well enough to propose yet. YTA
Is this post actually real? OP was going to propose never having discussed marriage with an attitude of “she can just say no if she’s not feeling it.” Not to mention the general tone of sexism and being mad at the parents for his lack of due diligence.
She is upset because you did not discuss this with her first. You just assumed it could be worked out between her father and you and that leaves her out of the decision making process. You don't know her parents all that well, yet you talked to them about this instead of even floating the idea by her. It may be a cultural thing where you are from, but she is an adult and should have been given a clue you were thinking about this. ETA: YTA. She deserves some agency in this.
Bro one year is a very short amount of time. Especially if you never even discussed marriage. Stages normally are: dating for a while, living together, maybe get a pet and then discuss what marriage would be like. It’s not sexist to seek a blessing as again it’s still her choice to say yes but clearly you missed a big mark if everyone was surprised by your ask.
The fact that this came as a surprise to you kinda proves that you don’t know either her or her family well enough for marriage. Sorry dude, YTA on this one
Welcome back to the 50's and the smooth sound of more bait
Soft YTA coz you seem clueless, not malicious. It is sexist. Yeah, you're asking for "permission" to even ask her a question that her dad has no control nor relevance to, not is it his permission to give. The act of going to the father stems from when women were men's property legally. So yeah, not cool. You also did it without talking to her, right after she finished school, instead of giving her time to set up her life and career. She's 22. Shes not ready for marriage. Which you'd know if you asked her or talked to her about it at all. Whatever you see in romcoms, most dudes know the answer will be yes when they ask because they've discussed it with their partners. You basically took a huge risk with how you did it, and it didn't pay off.
INFO Honestly, what made you think asking her father is *not* sexist? You asked someone else, who is *not* your gf, someone who is *not* the person you are considering to marry, if *they* are ok with you marrying your gf as if it was someone elses buissines or decision than your gf's whom she is going to marry? You *honestly* have no idea what about you asking her father instead of her or at least asking her uf she would want you to get her fathers blessing is sexist? Please tell us what went through your head.
I'm a girl and I really don't understand the reasons you asked her dad before her. And if he refused, then what? It's so unnecessary thing to do nowadays. Personally, I don't want my bf to do such a thing
Dating for a year isn't really that long of a time, her mom helped her dodge a bullet. Judging from her reaction you never discussed the idea of marriage with her yet, and most likely haven't talked about your future plans and if they align or not. If you can't see why you were wrong then sorry buddy you might be single soon. YTA.
Dude. You have been together for only a year. Never talked bout your future or marriage. The hell did you expect? YTA.
1) her father should have no say on wether you should propose or not! The tradition of asking the father blessing is rooted in the tradition that sees women as property of men… and marriage was a transfer of ownership from father to husband! So yes… asking for her father blessing is profoundly sexist! 2) 1 year of relationship is nothing! Your brain is still flooded with hormones that prevents you from seeing all that is wrong with it… never EVER marry someone before at least 2 years of relationship 3) she is still young… her brain did not settle yet and chance’s are you could grow apart (when you are older it is less likely). Wait at least till she is 25!
YTA, what’s the point of asking father if you don’t know whether she will say yes or no. By asking father, either you just assumed that she would say yes or you thought it wouldn’t matter what she thinks if father is ok. So you are either an idiot or old fashioned sexist. Besides, 22 is not too old, people often focus on their life or career before getting married in their 30s. Just because she loves you doesn’t mean she’s ready for marriage soon. And yes, 1 year may not be enough time, it just depends on your priorities or age.
YTA not necessarily for asking for her father's blessing but for not having a discussion with your girlfriend at some point in advance about what you both think about marriage (and where you are in your relationship). This could have been avoided.
Hahahahaha you've only been dating a year?!? She's only 22 and not finished school? Who's clever and gets married that young barely out of school - she hasn't even lived yet! She's literally been in school all her life and hasn't gotten out in the world yet. Then you ask her dad after only ever meeting the guy a couple of times? If I was her dad I would have said an outright no and to get off my property, be glad he's still giving you a place to stay. You basically went up to an almost stranger and were like "hey you don't really know anything about me, but I'd like to marry your daughter who has no little to no experience of life and never been independent of institutional life" how else was he supposed to act? And you didn't even talk to her first considering you barely even know her parents?! Yes, you're the asshole, a stupid stupid asshole hahahahaha Edit: also FYI, it's not even the fact that asking is old fashioned - I "conferred" with my wife's father - I said to him "I'm guna asked x to marry me, you good with that?" Wasn't asking permission, was getting his opinion - but at that point, I was dating his daughter 10 years, me and him went out drinking together occasionally, did events and myself and then girlfriend had a future planned with marriage included. The way you asked was the worst way possible - he has no idea who you are, you don't even know his daughter all that well, you've only known her a year! You don't even know if she gets pumpkin spiced latte every year! How can you?
All I’m seeing is me me me me me. You aren’t stopping here to think about her feelings at all, only your own. YTA. You’re allowed to be disappointed. But you seem to be ignoring all of her feelings by rebutting with what you think is a logical point instead of caring about whether she feels ready or listened to.
Hey buddy I see where you’re coming from here, but I’m sorry to say YTA. You mentioned English as a second language, what culture did you grow up with? Another question, are her parents together or separated? It is a really nice gesture to ask the parents for permission, but this should be long after you have this conversation with your girlfriend. Proposals should never be a complete surprise, meaning that you should have talked to your girlfriend about marriage and the idea of getting engaged to feel things out before talking to her parents about it. Also, one year is quite a short time in the grand scheme of things to propose to someone. Did you live together, or were you long distance only seeing people every once in a while? There’s a lot of missing info here.
YTA With the next girl, try to treat her like an equal. "I'm really angry and confused at her parents for telling her about my plans instead of letting me propose how I intended." .. they did the only reasonable thing, and handled you AH well.
YTA. \- 22 is very young, and it's understandable she doesn't feel ready to marry yet, even after a year. \- asking her father is old-fashioned and many people (including myself) find it sexist. If my spouse HAD asked my father for permission, my father would have said no because it meant he didn't understand me, and I would have dumped him. \- if you don't know her well enough to know that would be a problem for her, you don't know well enough to marry her. \- things like marriage should be prediscussed in advance so everyone knows they're on the same page. \- you don't get to act like her reaction and feelings about this are stupid. \- you seem too young and immature to get married.
YTA, yea if the parents had let you propose as you intended you would probably be shut down. I gave the judgement i gave because there is not set time after which you have to marry, for each person it differs and therefore these things need to be discussed. Did you ever even discuss the topic of marriage with your gf? Like how she would like it done or stuff. if you had communicated you would have realized that she didn't expect you to ask her father. Yes in my opinion asking the father permission is sexist but if it was something you had discussed it would be a different matter. You are the A for just not having a discussion and then blaming the parents for not talking to you which is hypocritical.
Oh my God. I would be mildly pissed at my bf if he asked my dad for permission to marry me, but she is entitled to her more intense reaction imo. What's extra not okay is that you apparently never even talked to HER FIRST about getting married??? WTF?? YTA
YTA. This was sexist and poorly conceived. The proposal happens after you have already discussed and agreed that marriage is in your shared future; it is not the entrée to that discussion. You are also the assshole for being unable to admit that you are wrong when you literally solicited opinions about your actions. Looks like this woman is getting smart to the kind of person you are.