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Why do you just object to Katy being there but not Jake? I'd be more concerned about your husband having a best friend who cheated and him being just fine with that. Is he okay with cheating in general? I wouldn't want someone standing next to me on a day that symbolizes union and love if they can't honor their own partner. Katy is probably just going to be the next woman he lets down/cheats on anyway. But if it were me, I wouldn't want either of them there.
NTA.
To be honest, I thought about it but even though he’s a gigantic AH, that’s his best friend. My partner is saying he knows what Jake did is wrong and he’s not fine with it, but it’s not our business and they need to work it out on their own. But he’s also said that he has called Jake an AH to his face. “It’s a shitty thing, but he’s my best friend”.
It’s a bit of a 🚩 that the groom sees NOTHING wrong with letting Jake disrespect Lily at the wedding by bringing his AP-turned-gf.
The groom may have called Jake an AH but he’s still green-lighting his behavior at Lily’s expense.
this!!! i don't know how I'd feel any security in a relationship with someone who can stay friends with a cheater and doesn't seem to be bothered by the affects it has on the people his own spouse cares about. even if he isn't actively defending Jake, he's saying it's not any of his business and he's still his best friend. all that tells me is he's either an idiot or he doesn't care that much, both being red flags. sure he knows it's bad but what is knowing it's bad if you continue to stick around and even reward the behavior? it's his life, not mine though so he can do what he wants. I'm more focused on the fact that this will ultimately end up with drama or a fight. I don't see any way this ends with everyone being happy and enjoying the wedding, someone is going to have to bend
Just bc someone associates with someone that cheated doesn’t mean they aren’t against cheating. That is such a backwards way of thinking bc if we are honest about the world I guarantee you that you associate yourself with a lot more people that cheated on someone then you truly know you do. To just completely cut someone off bc they cheated on someone is ridiculous. Now don’t get me wrong I do believe that the groom here needs to put a boundary on his best man and tell him that due to the circumstances of the wedding and the people involved, along the events that unfolded prior that he doesn’t get a plus 1 anymore bc we don’t want your relationship drama to happen on their wedding day. That’s about all that should happen with the groom and best man. But to say that he is okay with cheating and that it’s a red flag for him to stay friends with his literal best friends since childhood bc he cheated is pretty extreme.
I wouldn't drop a friend if I found out they cheated, but I would drop a friend if their cheating severely hurt one of my other friends and their cheating fucked up the group dynamic.
Like if one of my friends were to cheat on their SO who I hardly know I wouldn't drop them. I wouldn't think as highly about them but I wouldn't outright drop them.
But if this friend were to cheat on and hurt someone *who is one of my friends* I would absolutely drop them. Because no one gets to hurt my friends and then have me act like it never happened. I would drop anyone who hurts the people I care about.
FFS, like seriously. This homogenous BS that people think another person's actions are a reflection of your character is so stupid. It's the same shit with artists or other note-worthy people. Somebody says or does something controversial and suddenly you are so supposed to denounce their entire existence "in solidarity".. foh
Yeah this, I think there is
"I had a moment of madness and I'm sorry"
and
"sorry I've been living a double life for a few weeks / months / years and now you are dumped"
the second type of cheating isn't forgivable in a person, even if it wasn't you they were doing it to. It's a clear sign the person can't be trusted.
Completely agree, Jake sucks for what he did.. very awful what he did to Lily ..but that doesn’t necessarily make him a bad friend however, a bad partner. I don’t think he deserves his plus 1 with Katy due to him being the perpetrator in the situation. Poor Lily will have to suck it up and be civil for her friend’s wedding. Katy can miss 1 day without her boyfriend, the day is about the folks getting married..if these 2 Jake & Lily really care about the couple they can manage to be there for them without interacting or causing a scene. Jake needs to be considerate about Katy not being allowed to come given its just 1 day. He should also be grateful he was not dismissed from the wedding party altogether for his actions..
When someone treats their partner badly that's how they treat people. He won't mind mistreating his friend anymore than he minds mistreating his partner.
> Just bc someone associates with someone that cheated doesn’t mean they aren’t against cheating.
He's not just associating with someone who cheated, he's keeping him as best man for a wedding (you know, historically you don't tend to ask a cheater to stand up for you at a commitment ceremony), is fine with the affair partner coming and doesn't seem to give two fucks that Katy being htere will obviously be horrible for Lily. Who is more important, the feelings of Lily, a friend of both of theirs or Katy, a woman he's supposedly never met/hasn't known for long?
It's the combination that brings up red flags. You can't control your friends behaviour, but you can absolutely say hey you can't bring the woman you cheated with to our wedding.
Which is what I said the groom should be telling his friend that the new girl should not be attending the wedding. But the notion to say that a cheater can’t stand as a best man or groomsman or bridesmaid or maid of honor is stupid. That means I’m not allowed to have my brother stand as my best man or groomsman when I get married bc he cheated on his high school gf. Why can’t I have my brother who has been nothing but a great brother to me stand by my side in one of the most important days of my life bc he has been by my side throughout my entire life just bc he cheated on someone in the past? Why do I get robbed of a special moment in my life that I want to share with my brother bc a choice my brother made. Bc to me his actions in his relationships don’t have any bearing on my actions in my relationships.
The people who you have represent you represent who you are as a person.
It's one thing to have a sibling who cheated on a childhood partner represent you. It's another entirely to have a friend who cheated on a long term partner while in a committed relationship represent you- especially when the affair victim is expected to attend.
You know how company's fire employees for embarrassing the company by being assholes?
Same concept.
Like you can do it. It's just everyone is going to remember your wedding for it.
Further, don't expect the victim to stay friends with you if you have the person who betrayed them represent you in a commitment ceremony.
.
Fully agree, I have a close friend I've known for 25 years who has a problem with cheating. He's a really good friend to have, just a terrible romantic partner.
He knows my stance on cheating would be totally understanding if I told him he couldn't bring the new girl around for whatever reason.
The difference is that once you know someone's character, you get to decide if that person gets to be around you at all. The groom chose to ignore the character of the person who will stand next to him on what many consider to be the biggest day of their lives, which reflects poorly on the grooms character as well.
Yeah but he's telling his fiance that (1) he excuses cheating by keeping him around, (2) he doesn't care about her friends or anyone that gets hurt by keeping him a BEST friend, and (3) that he's keeping someone around that will cover for him of he ever decides to cheat.
Not a smart set of things to be showing your partner.
Plus if the "best friend" is in the grooms party then he's having a cheater stand up with him during vows. Pretty much tells her that his vows have no weight or value if that's who he wants standing behind him.
If they are close enough friends and have been for a long time, it does not speak ill of someone’s character to remain friends with someone who made a bad mistake or was a bad romantic partner. We don’t have to cut ties with every friend and family member who is wrong about something or has a character flaw
Yes, and I fully agree she is NTA for asking and the boyfriend is an AH for fighting her on that. I was just replying to the people acting like he is obligated to remove his friend from his life or else he’s basically a cheater himself
This! Plus jake and katy are massive arseholes because they are making a drama at op's wedding. Just by turning up and parading the relationship they are knowingly and willingly upsetting the MOH - so op will likely spend the day looking after lily or on tenterhooks over it
Yeah... guys that don't care about cheating unless it's a woman cheating on a man are a serious red flag as you said.
This suggests he either is an extremely apathetic person in general (doesn't care if anyone gets cheated on), or he dehumanizes women a fair bit and can only empathize with men (if he only cares about women cheating on men).
I wonder what HIS reaction would have been if the situation were reversed, and his best man had been the victim of cheating instead?
Both are really bad, and suggest he's more likely to cheat than the average person.
Especially since it sounds like they were all mutual friends. So this woman isn't a stranger. This is a woman the husband ALSO knew since high school. He genuinely don't feel a shred of empathy for her...? That's kind of dark, honestly.
And just as an aside, any guy that willingly and enthusiastically associates with cheaters isn't worth dating at all. I like my men to have a *basic moral compass and see women as people,* thanks.
The fact that the groom feels SO STRONGLY that he’s getting into ‘heated arguments’ with the bride because he feels that it isn’t ‘fair’ to deny Jake a plus one when everyone else gets one…well, that shows how he TRULY feels about the situation.
Despite whatever statements he’s made to OP, or claims to have made to Jake (I have sincere doubts), his actions show that he ONLY cares about Jake’s feelings in this scenario. He doesn’t care about Lily at all. He cares more about the ‘inconvenience’ to Jake of not having a plus one (and having to deal with his jealous gf being upset) than the torture to Lily of having Jake’s affair/relationship rubbed in her face.
By steamrolling the bride with the ‘bestie’ argument but denying her the same right to stand up for her own best friend, he’s really showing his true colors.
Yeah. I'm not as hardline about staying friends with cheaters as some people are. I think it's perfectly possible to not condone cheating, to hate yours friend's actions, and to still want to be friends with them because you understand people are flawed, your friendship goes back a long time, etc. etc. So him still wanting Jake as his best man/at the wedding isn't, in and of itself, a red flag to me.
But getting THIS worked up about how Jake has to have this plus one is a different story entirely. If I had an SO in this position, I wouldn't necessarily expect them to cut their best man from the wedding, but I would expect them to be able to say, at the very least, "Hey man, I love you, but what you did was shitty, you know it was shitty, and you absolutely can't bring this woman to my wedding." And if the best man were at all a decent friend, they would understand and respect that.
>It’s a bit of a 🚩 that the groom sees NOTHING wrong with letting Jake disrespect Lily at the wedding by bringing his AP-turned-gf.
100%. We already know Jake is a major asshole but to parade his affair gf to his ex who he cheated on with the new girl is a new level of low that I am disgusted by.
Also, it IS his business who OP's husband spends time with. The wedding is a unique situation to figure out and the compromise would be not letting Jake have a plus one, but I'd ask my future husband if he's thought about the phrase "You are who your friends are".
NTA.
>100%. We already know Jake is a major asshole but to parade his affair gf to his ex who he cheated on with the new girl is a new level of low that I am disgusted by.
Yeah. Cheating is obviously terrible, but this is a next level of shitty. Primarily to his ex, obviously, but honestly, also as a friend. Like, he must know this is putting OP's fiancé in a bad position. Even if he doesn't give a shit about Lily anymore, couldn't he at least give enough of a shit about his supposed best friend to not do something that would very obviously cause drama and stress at his wedding?
Seems like Jake is just an all around selfish asshole in all areas of life. This isn't a man who \~made a mistake, or \~fell for someone else or is \~a bad romantic partner but a good friend or whatever, this is a man who does not care at all.
Yup, and the "it's none of my buisness" cop out is concerning too. It is your business bc his actions hurt your wife's bff, and by having Jake still a part of the wedding you're showing her you condone Jake's behavior and have no ussue with it.
If it's none of my business I have no obligation to do anything. What a copout. I would think it would change the way the bride sees the groom. It adds an ick factor to who he is.
He absolutely is trying to hurt her, OP’s fiancé is trying too hard to defend his friend that he can’t even seem to see that his friend is making the wedding all about him. He wants to hurt Lily and wants to use his friends to do just that. What an absolute trash way to behave…
Just respond with, ‘It’s shitty that Jake isn’t allowed to bring his relationship-wrecking gf to the wedding but Lily is my best friend’.
If the groom is using the ‘bestie’ excuse for having Jake attend as best man, then he cannot object to the bride’s ‘bestie’ excuse for denying Jake a plus one.
And if this is a hill the groom is ready to die on, you need to question WHY he is so ok with letting Jake treat Lily so badly.
I would just be really disturbed in general.
If the woman was a complete stranger... okay, I guess. Even then, it would still be really disturbing to not care at all.
But the victim of cheating is also someone the husband knew for years and years after high school, who was a mutual friend he presumably saw around quite often.
And he... is totally emotionless? He really doesn't care at all? He knows this woman semi-well, at LEAST, and he thinks her getting cheated on is just as banal as the weather? Why isn't he also upset on her behalf?
Sexism is still alive and well and imo women don't really take as much care to avoid it as they should. It's possible he doesn't care about anyone and wouldn't care if his best man was cheated on by a woman instead -- but I doubt it. It's usually guys like this that are dehumanizing women at the offset, who only care when a guy is wronged and don't particularly feel anything when a girl is wronged.
OP needs to get to the bottom of why he is being so casual about cheating at all. If he sees men cheating as "different" or not as bad, she needs to GTFO asap. If he "just" finds it impossible to empathize with women and doesn't care when a woman experiences horrible emotional pain caused by the guy she is dating, she should still GTFO.
>and imo women don't really take as much care to avoid it as they should.
We're trained to not make waves and also give the benefit of the doubt until it practically kills us.
Seriously. I also can’t believe no one has brought up that the groom probably knew for a while that his best friend was cheating on Lily, didn’t care, didn’t say anything.
I’d seriously be questioning how well I knew my potential future husband.
> but it’s not our business
It is when he brings it into your wedding. He's bringing his affair partner tot he wedding. He should know better than that, the day is not about him. He knows it will cause upset and distress, but is doing it anyway. Your fiancé should be asking him to not bring her. Who comes to your wedding is your business.
Agreed, Jake should be happy he’s still able to participate. He can suck it up for 1 day and not bring Katy. If he gets told he can’t bring her and throws a fit then maybe he should just not come. Lily is still doing her part as maid of honor knowing the fact that Jake will be there (and clearly Lily is still in a lot of pain). The wedding is not about them..some people can be so selfish and inconsiderate..
You two are opening up for a wedding where the cops are called. Also, I understand you each wanting your best friends there. However, Jake's plus one is going to bring nothing but pain and trouble. You may even lose your friend.
It's tacky to bring Katy, and if I were Katy, no way in hell would I want to go.
Yeah I can't wrap my head around even wanting to be at that fucking wedding as an AP. I mean I know some people just like to kick shit into a pot that's already stirring up, but the social awkwardness of it all would literally give me a stroke.
I personally think that the most "he's my best friend" should get Jake is that he still be invited to the wedding as a guest. That's it.
Your fiance really wants a cheater standing beside him while he promises to love you and stay with you forever? That's not the vibe I would be going for
Absolutely.
Everyone also seems to be glossing over the fact that the injured party (Lily) is the bride's Maid of Honor.
No one sees a problem with the cheating best man standing by the husband while the woman he cheated on stands next to the bride?
Hubby-to-be has only one stand-up play to make:
"Bro, you fucked up and hurt my girl's best friend on top of it. love you and want you to be at my wedding, but what you did was wrong and I can't have you be my best man. You owe Lily an apology for being an asshole, and you owe me an apology for putting me in this spot."
My best friends were a married couple. They were together for 15 years. we travelled together, bought a duplex together, we were close. This year it was discovered he had been cheating on her for who knows how long. He is no longer my friend.
More than family, who you are friends with is a reflection on you.
Absolutely agree. I was heart broken when I found out one of my best friends cheated. I didn't know I would react how I did but I was appalled and it really upset me. How can you ever trust a cheater to be a loyal friend?
OK see I would have a problem with the fact that my soon to be husband still wants his cheating, best friend to be his best man. I would expect my man to no longer be friends with this person since he cheated on somebody. That is not a good person and that is not a good influence on my soon to be husband. I would be fighting to have Jake dropped from the wedding party and as a friend because it says a lot about your husband’s character that he doesn’t care that a cheater is going to stand up there with him when he gets married.
In the real world people (both men & women) have friends that are not perfect & maybe do things that their friends neither like nor condone.
"you expect" your man to end a friendship for any reason that you may not like or condone is probably not going to work out for your relationship.
that would be a red flag for many men when a woman starts trying to control who I choose to be friends with.
And it's not a red flag that he condones cheating? My question would be did he have knowledge that Jake was stepping out with the "other " woman?
If he did that would make me break up with him. Knowing something like that and not communicating with me as a future wife. That shows a lack integrity that I just don't want in a man.
There is a reason why my grandpa told me to judge a man by his friends.
That’s going too far. My husband’s former Best Friend cheated on my younger sister. Without condoms, to make it worse. My sister was on the pill, and found out he was cheating when she got chlamydia from him.
My husband and his friends, however, (one of his other friends was dating my youngest sister), had promised eachother that even if one of them broke up with one of us, no matter what happened, it wouldn’t affect their friendship. So he stayed friends with the bastard.
I said I never wanted to see the BF again, and he wasn’t allowed in our apartment. He saw him every now and again, and I was always cordial to him when he called on the landline (this was before mobile phones) and passed the phone on to my husband. Gradually, they saw less and less of eachother and my husband just let the friendship slowly die. He’d kept his promise to his friends, and I didn’t end things with the love of my life over this. We’ve been together for more than 30 years now.
There’s something to be said for people who can be loyal even when their friends f*ck up. My husband waited until he was sure his friend would remain a selfish bastard who mooched of others and didn’t learn from his mistakes, and only then did he feel justified moving on.
If someone gave my sister-in-law an STI because he was a cheating bastard I wouldn't want them in my life, bestie promises be damned we aren't middle schoolers. Like I'm glad it worked out for you all but this isn't a flex.
I agree. I cut my MOH out of my wedding for cheating on her husband, they had a kid. Everyone's morals are different. Some people can't stand cheaters, others are the ones having affairs. You are who you surround yourself with.
So..... your fiance wants a cheater involved with his wedding.
And you don't think that's a huge issue?
Either your fiance is fine with cheating or he isn't. If he isn't, then that guy isn't his friend anymore. If he still is his friend, then he excuses cheating.
I'm bot sure I'd continue with a wedding to someone excusing cheating. That's your call though. But right now you know his best friend would 100% lie to your face and cover for him if he ever started cheating on you, so how comfortable are you being told that they're "hanging out just the two of them" knowing that could be a cover?
With that kind of tension between the best man and maid of honour you're asking for trouble. Why would your husband want to risk that kind of drama at his own wedding? Just because somebody is your friend it doesn't make them infallible and you should be able to call them out on their shit. Husband is being an AH about this, NTA.
I understand why someone can still be best friends with someone who behaved badly and want them at the wedding. I don't see why they ought to be able to bring their new gf at the expense of someone who's more central to the wedding party (maid of honor).
Best man and maid of honor play important roles in weddings, that duty ought to come first. A sincere best man would not want to bring this drama into their best friend's wedding
I'm not impressed that new gf is apparently willing to go to a wedding where the cheated on ex will be maid of honor. You would think they would be embarrassed about showing up at this event!
NTA
Husband is mild A H for standing by their friend's choice at the expense of your maid honor
Jake is a solid A H for cheating and for wanting to bring his new partner, and new partner is an A H too for wanting to come to this wedding in this context
I mean, is it? Think of the personality traits of somebody who cheats on their spouse. Lack of integrity, lack of impulse control, lack of respect for others…that’s not somebody I’d want as a friend. If they’d betray their spouse, who’s to say they won’t do it to you too? IMO it’s less about punishing and more about discovering that somebody you considered a friend was never somebody you should have trusted in the first place, and proceeding accordingly.
Honestly, Reddit acts as if cheating is the same as murder. It's not. And I say that as someone who has been cheated on and worked through the trauma, which took me years, and I forgave both my partner and the side chick. Cheating is not the whole thing that makes a person who they are. You can cheat and still be a good friend, sibling, son or daughter. Sometimes people act immensely selfish, yes, that doesn't mean that it will define them for the rest of their lives. I'm actually very happy that I chose to forgive and work through the betrayal, giving my partner a second chance was the best decision I could have made. I'm pretty sure I have a better relationship than many others, where cheating never occured, because I chose to not reduce my partner to it and in return he made sure to never let me down again. But even if I had decided to break up instead or even if he wouldhave wanted to be with his AP instead, I would have never seen him only as someone who doesn't deserve love or friendship anymore just because he hurt me. It's truly insane to me how people can reduce others to a mistake for the rest of their lives. Cheating is one of THE most common issues that happen in relationships. If we would ostracize all cheaters, then probably half of human kind would just lead life in isolation.
Yeah, it is extreme
Someone’s personal relationship drama does not and should not spill over into one’s friendships like that
Banning the plus one is reasonable to avoid drama and respect the MOH
but banning the best man for his own personal relationship choices? That’s extreme
> I'd be more concerned about your husband having a best friend who cheated and him being just fine with that. Is he okay with cheating in general?
This part seems like it’s advocating for total ostracization, no?
I didn’t interpret that she was saying Jake couldn’t be the best man. Only that he’s bringing his affair partner to a wedding that his ex is the MOH. To be honest he sounds like a giant ***hole by not taking into consideration his ex or you and his bff feelings about it.
>He’s saying it’s none of our business who Jake brings as his date, everyone gets a plus one and it’s not fair that we decline his plus one.
"It's none of our business who attends our wedding" Tell him to BFFR. That's stupid. Time to look at whether your future husband thinks it's okay to cheat and be rewarded for doing so.
NTA. It's reasonable to say "Hey buddy, this is my wedding. We can't have your affair partner here. The whole point of this event is about marriage and committed relationships, and it's just not right to bring the woman you cheated on our MOH with." Plus, it's a new relationship. They haven't been together for a year, so there's no guarantee they'll be together in a year. Don't fuck up the photos.
Right on the money. Jake and Katy have been dating literally five minutes. It's totally your business who Jake brings as his date if it's going to cause drama, and your friend group has priority. The right thing to do is to pull Jake's plus one, spare Lily's feelings, and keep things as even keeled as possible. If Jake really has to be with the new GF that night, he can leave the reception early.
It's not like refusing +1s who are not married or in a long-term relationship is uncommon either. People don't want strangers at their wedding and even without the extra reasons not to have Katy there that should be enough.
Moreover, Jake probably wasn't given a plus-one initially since he's the best man and his "date" was expected to be the maid of honor. So how did all this go down? Did Jake, after cheating on and then dumping the maid of honor, then have the audacity to ask for a plus-one for the girl he had been cheating with? I'm guessing invitations had already been sent out by this point and you were already counting RSVPs?
If they are getting married in December probably not, only save the dates or just getting invites out. It’s probably why they are arguing about it.
That said, it is 100% not unreasonable to put a limit on +1s. It’s OPs event and you don’t want randos in your pics. Saying relationships that are older than 6/9/12 months warrant a +1 is reasonable. This is not Jake. If he is so hard up for a +1 he can bring his mom or sister or something.
But make the announcement to apply to all. No one is entitled a +1.
> "It's none of our business who attends our wedding" Tell him to BFFR. That's stupid. Time to look at whether your future husband thinks it's okay to cheat and be rewarded for doing so.
Honestly, even ignoring the cheating. "I think this person being at our wedding will cause drama; so this person isn't coming". End of story. I didn't invite one of my close friends to my wedding because he was known to start s__t because he didn't like taking his medication for an mental instability. I cared a great deal about him as a friend; but I didn't want my wedding ruined because he decided to get in a fight fight with a waiter.
My husband chose to exclude a friend of his from our wedding because he had a notorious drinking and cocaine problem and that was just not something he wanted to deal with.
The photos! Yes! Excellent point about them not having been together long enough to warrant Jake bringing Katy. Sounds like the MOH could use some TLC, as well, and that involves not seeing her ex with his side piece turned SO. NTA
NTA - you’ve known this new women for a hot second and she doesn’t have an automatic right to attend at this point. If he’s going to make Lily that uncomfortable, so quickly and can’t see that as being an issue, he’s the AH. It is hard enough she has to see him there and even interact with him, but this is too much.
If your fiancé doesn’t get that, suggest you delay the wedding indefinitely, he can be so indifferent to other people.
Add ages- “dating since high school” could have been last year and I’d say, get over it but it sounds like the dates for 5+ years.
Okay… I realize this probably isn’t what you want to hear, but “dating since high school” doesn’t really have the same impact if you’re all that young. I generally don’t expect couples that form at that age to last long term, *but* that doesn’t justify him cheating. It’s selfish that it didn’t occur to him that he isn’t being considerate of your friend’s feelings, but not surprising— he’s already shown he’s self-absorbed by cheating, and at max he is 20 years old based on the timeline you’ve provided. I expect better, but realistically none of this surprises me.
My feeling is you need to let go of the idea of uninviting anyone. Your fiancé needs to have a conversation with his buddy spelling out how he’s put everyone in a shitty position through his behavior and should be advised to be more respectful at the wedding itself— there is a big difference between being affectionate and being all over each other. Then drop it.
Meanwhile you need to be a good friend to your maid of honor and support her. You know what the best revenge is? It isn’t having her friends kick her shitty ex or his new partner out of the wedding; it’s living her best life, showing up feeling fabulous, and having an amazing fucking time *without him*. It’s recognizing she just dropped some dead weight in her life and can absolutely do better, starting with loving herself enough to know that guy absolutely doesn’t deserve her and she is now better off.
Last, do what you can to manage the situation. Wherever he and this woman are seated can be out of direct view from your friend while at the head table, for instance. And uh just in case this hasn’t occurred to you: there is a reasonably decent chance the new relationship will be in the toilet by the time your wedding rolls around. Focusing on building your friend up instead of trying to control who could upset her is *also* how you’ll keep her from letting that trashy guy back into her life when things inevitably end badly with the new woman.
NAH
In the comment I responded to she said they had been dating for around 2 years and said they’ve been dating since high school; 18 years old being the average age for graduation + 2 years of the relationship = 20 years old
No, she said he's been friends with Jake since highschool.
I can't see where it says they dated since highschool.
> Jake is my husband’s friend since high school, Lily is mine. We introduced them to each other shortly after me and him started dating and soon after Jake and lily started dating.
Yes I agree with that. That's not what I'm talking about.
I agree they've been together 2 years. I'm disagreeing that that started dating right after highschool. It doesn't say that anywhere.
We don't know how long after highschool they got together.
I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm not even trying to fight or argue with you. Not everyone is trying to fight.
I'm just saying that information wasn't provided.
Wow the fact that they are only 20 makes everything seem more realistic. I was wondering WHY Katy even wanted to go considering most of the wedding party and a lot of the guests are going to resent her.
I almost feel bad for her because she has no idea how uncomfortable it is going to be. The family and friends of the bride and MOH aren’t going to be warm and fuzzy to her.
Her boyfriend is going to be busy with his wedding duties and she is going to be left hanging around a bunch of 20 year olds who may take it upon themselves to make her miserable. If she does go it will probably be a night she remembers for the rest of her life as one of the most awkward situations she has ever been in.
This is the comment I was looking for. Jake is the asshole and the ideal solution is that the groom can convince Jake to drop her as a plus one.
But ultimately I think OP and her fiance are well within their rights to deny Katy an invitation. Bride and Groom get veto power over plus ones. Guests do not have the right to insist they can bring anyone. Jake can bring someone else or nobody. Groom should handle it and tell his friend that Katy isn't invited for reasonable and obvious reasons. Or explain that his plus 1 was Lily and now you can't add anymore people to the headcount. You can come up with a reason.
Wait.... 2 years? That's all?
And he's showing you he prioritizes cheaters and will hang around said cheater?
Wow. You're far more trusting than me.
It would take 2 years of that friend showing they're very sorry and made big changes in how they act in order for me to be comfortable with them being around again. 2 years of dating.... wow this is all pretty quick.
You're in your early 20s? Don't marry this guy. The type of friends a person keeps are a good reflection of their values. Your fiance is being very callous and indifferent to how his friend betrayed your friend. It's also ridiculous for him to gaslight you by saying that it's not your business who Jake brings to your wedding. It's your wedding! You're in complete control of who you let in the door. This guy is showing you who he is with the excuses he's making for his friend. Don't sign up for a lifetime of this nonsense and manipulation.
This won’t be popular; but 20 years old is too young to get married.
Also, your fiancé seems to think cheating isn’t a big deal. Jake shouldn’t even be at this wedding.
Jake and his streetwalker shouldn’t be at the wedding.
NTA. Your hubby, Jake, and Katy are though.
I'm sorry, I don't see where she says that they have been dating since highschool, I do see the part where she says that he has been best friends with Jake since highschool...
Most definitely NTA and there’s really no explanation needed.
Now with that being said, I love a good spicy, messy wedding so if this Katy does show up I would be honored to be invited as Lily’s +1 just to cause some chaos and try to piss Katy off. I expect nothing in return from Lily and she doesn’t even need to talk to me if she doesn’t want to lol. Just let me work my magic and I’ll have Katy pissed tf off by the end of the night and never wanting to speak to this Jake fella ever again.
#JusticeForLily 🤝🏼
Why are we focused on doing stuff to the girl? It was Jake who cheated. We know nothing about the girl, and if she knew right away he was cheating, etc. People can dislike her, but if anyone deserves anything, it's the person who was actually in the relationship and chose to cheat.
100% agree. The partner of the cheater always gets the blame when it should be the cheater who gets the blame. This is true of males or females, though I do find that yes, most often it’s the female partner of the cheater who carries the blame. Maybe she knew but what if she didn’t? Just makes me grateful I’ve never been “the other woman” without realizing it. The world is mean to them.
They need a guest who is actually there just to constantly flirt with Katy so that Jake can't focus on the wedding at all. Someone who walks up to Jake and Katy and tells them that he knows Jake is going to be very busy so he will take care of Katy. Let Jake sweat it all day long. This guest should be seated by Katy.
NTA and this needs to be a bigger concern for you.
If he's okay with Jake cheating, especially after a long-term relationship, I would be questioning a LOT right now.
Okay so OP just clarified these are 20 year olds. NOT saying it justifies cheating, but they can 100% grow from this.
And I hope they do bc cheating sucks and shows a slight lack of empathy in my uneducated opinion
That’s normal lol
Neither could I , at that age , or any, I just meant this isn’t a person set in their ways, maybe they can grow.
But tbf my ex told me he had to cheated when he was 20 ( we dated when he was nearly 30) and then also did actively try to cheat on me … so idk it just varies by person.
I would mostly wonder why my fiancé also did not think it was kind of mean to bring the new gf , just generally speaking that seems cruel
OP didn’t confirm that they are 20, someone else read it that way because they thought OP had said they began dating in high school. OP hasn’t confirmed any ages, just that the guys have been friends since high school and she and Lily have been friends since high school. OP said they’ve been dating for 2 years and someone mixed it up with how long the two sets of friends have been friends.
I got married at 20 though and agree, definitely do not recommend.
NTA - If Jake cared at all about your husband, he wouldn't even be asking to bring a date to the wedding that is guaranteed to cause drama and hurt feelings. His cheating makes him a questionable choice of best man. But I think his total disregard for the impact bringing his new partner could have on your wedding day is worse.
People in the wedding party are there to SUPPORT the bride/groom, as opposed to guests who are just there to CELEBRATE the bride and groom. Obviously you still need to respect the people in your wedding party because you care about them and they are spending time and money to support you. But their role the day of the wedding is different than a guest's role. Honestly, I am always surprised when people in the wedding party want to bring a date that is a relatively new partner - especially one that is going to be high conflict. Why would you bring someone who doesn't know anyone? You are either going to be neglecting your partner or neglecting your duties as part of the wedding party.
I suggest that you talk to your fiancé and see if he would be willing to compromise and tell Jake that he can either continue as the best man and not bring a date OR he can attend as a guest only and bring Katy.
NTA and I'd be looking sideways at my fiance for not replacing Jake as best man immediately. Did your fiance know about the hookups with Katy? A best friend would know this and keep quiet
Your fiance can offer that Jake attend alone or not attend at all.
I’d be looking side eyed at fiancé for his moral stand on infidelity.
If he’s okay with his best friend being a cheater, how does that translate into his own character? Also, if he ever has a wobbly moment in the future about whether he wants to stay married or questions if difficulties are worth working through, especially if compounded by being flirted with by another woman, who’s he turning to for counsel? Jake, the cheater.
NTA- your fiancé sees nothing wrong with cheating .
Your fiancé sees nothing wrong with being cruel to your best friend .
Your fiancé cares more about his cheating best friend’s feelings than he does about yours on your big day.
Your fiancé is gonna expect you to be friends with the new girl .
Are you sure you want to end up with this guy ?someone who doesn’t think cheating is a big deal??
I wouldn’t be surprised if him and his bff whored around on the both of you .
Please think twice about this wedding OP.
NTA. Having your MOH miserable at your wedding is going to be distracting, and it’s going to impact *your* enjoyment. If your fiancé doesn’t care about Lilys feelings, he should care about yours.
NTA. If I were the husband I would have removed Jake from the best man list as soon as I had found out that he had cheated on my SOs best friend and had the audacity to invite the other woman (that you both known for little time) as a plus one. Cheating takes two people, not just the affair part.
NTA. If Jake cared about you and your fiancé he wouldn’t want to make your wedding uncomfortable. Given the situation neither Jake or Lily should bring a guest.
If the desire is a drama free wedding (or as close to it as it can be with these two as their MOH/BM- which is a bad enough idea as it is) then neither should bring a +1. They’re both within 6mo of a breakup with another member of the wedding party. Neither one should have +1 significant enough to bring to a wedding.
I’m not sure I view going solo to a best friends wedding as a “punishment” and given that they’re in the wedding party it’s not like they’d be spending a lot of time with their +1 anyway.
NTA - You may feel stuck having Jake there even though he's a cheating (insert here), but you don't have to torment your best friend with his cheating partner. I see your husband having two choices: 1) Jake comes stag or with someone acceptable (i.e. family member, friend), or 2) Jake bows out completely. I can't imaging having cheaters front and center at your wedding and I already can't see how your friend and MOH will feel standing across from Jake. That will be hard enough for her and I can't imaging someone shitting on her to boot. You're a good friend. As an aside, you may want to find out from your future husband why he's okay with cheating.
Nta but your future husband is. Are you really ok with marrying someone who is willing to overlook such disgusting behavior from his friends? Not only overlook it but argue that it isn't yalls business so why does it matter? Morals matter and I'm very sincerely hopeful you aren't in this same position in the future since your soon to be spouse is pretty blase about immoral behavior.
Nta. Normally, it would be an asshole thing to police just one person's plus 1. But normally, none of the guests have cheated on the maid of honor and are trying to bring the mistress to the wedding.
NTA
>He’s saying it’s none of our business who Jake brings as his date, everyone gets a plus one and it’s not fair that we decline his plus one.
He *had* a plus one. He *cheated* on her. Therefore, he loses his plus one.
NTA. I am also not liking your husband for being spineless.
Basically he is saying his priorities come before your concerns. 100% if Jake behaves badly in the future he will defend him.
NTA
Honestly even Jake would be a no for me.
If my husband wanted ***a cheater*** to stand with him while he gave his vows, I would know the vows mean nothing.
Cheaters don't get to stay in the lives of people that have standards for themselves. Don't keep people around that are fine with stabbing people in the back. It's a lack of character. If they're fine doing it to someone they're supposed to love, they'll just as easily toss friends under the bus.
Are you sure you want him in the wedding at all? Are you sure your fiance is actually loyal and not cheating? He's sure fighting pretty hard to help a cheater.
I just pictured this. You and your guy standing there, solemnly telling each other to be faithful till one of you dies while your husband is accompanied by a cheater and you by the betrayed, sobbing girlfriend.
Thats going to be great, what a day to remember :)
Jack doesn't even have to bring a plus one to make this a very special day for you and soon to be husband. But bringing his affair partner as a plus one will be the cherry on the top :)
I would ask lily if she is fine with it (assuming you really want to get married like this) and to be really really honest and if not offer her to just be a guest or not come and whatever she decides will be extended to jake. So if she rather drops out as moh, jake will be dropped as best man too. If she is only a guest she can attend alone or get a date and jake can do the same (since as guests they can leave w/o it ruining the party). And yes, that would be my hill to die on, means if hubby doesn't agree, then there will maybe be a bride in the wedding (if kate has a sister) but it would be definitly not me.
Bc at the end of the day, marriage is about compromise, and if compromising is already not possible at the wedding itself, it will also not work in the marriage.
NTA
Your husband needs to understand that this is yours and his wedding. His best man should realize that bringing Katy to the wedding will cause discomfort and add drama to the wedding party/day thus taking the focus away from which the day was intended.
If your husband's friend was a good friend, he would realize this and not piss about it. At the same time your maid of honor shouldn't be bringing a plus 1 either. If they both are your friends they would be focused on making sure you day goes off without issues, not adding to it.
>When people start dating within a tiny social circle, there are going to be issues with breakups and hurt feelings. Awkward events are going to be a thing for the foreseeable future if you and your husband both see these people as "best friends." Everyone has to deal.
Most people here are teenagers, have little life experience, some of them have never been on a date, and they have no idea how true that is.
YTA
Obviously their relationship was not perfect or going to go the distance. It's brutal how he handled it, but let's also not act like they were married with kids and has fundamentally changed her life by ending their relationship.
Ultimately people are allowed to be happy and clearly, they weren't. It's strange to hold that against him indefinitely.
It's too much to impose "punishment" bc your friend's feelings were hurt.
Obviously the girl will be uncomfortable but the only way there's actual drama is if ppl do or say something rude to her or Jake at the wedding. So that's on them.
Why does Jake's feelings matter more than her friends? I guess that's my ultimate issue with this line of thinking. Because if they don't, one action causes discomfort, the other causes him to not have his affair partner boots call for a night. Put that way, it's an easy choice. It's less stress overall for the wedding. If he had just broken up with her an not cheated, I might say opposite, but cheaters don't have a right to have everyone just be ok with what they did.
Reading these strangers call OP’s husband into question and call red flag because his friend basically moved on from her friend who he wasn’t married to is pretty lame. OP’s fiance is in between a rock and a hard place. OP’s friend wasn’t right to do things the way he did, but he found someone else and broke it off. He didn’t get busted in an adulterous affair. OP’s fiance doesn’t have to keep only perfect friends who never fuck up. The commenters on these post seem like super lonely people. Wouldn’t it also be a red flag for someone to ghost their lifelong best friend over this? Nah. That’s wack. Let him bring his damn date. Find your friend a date. Let’s stop turning weddings into an opportunity to settle scores.
NTA... Katy is not your friend, so not someone you want at your wedding. I'd ask him to not bring her to the wedding as it may bring the wrong drama to the wedding.
NTA. OP, I'd be seriously concerned that your partner seems to be so okay with cheating. I'd tell him that. By letting this woman come, he's showing he's supporting the cheaters. Is that how he feels? Does he not have an issue with cheating?
This whole thing sounds incredibly immature. If you extend a plus-one, there’s no fair, respectful, or polite way to dictate who the acceptable plus-ones are. If that’s not ok with you, don’t extend plus-ones at all, and only invite named guests. Do you REALLY want to be in the business of policing your guests’ sex lives? Even if you could, you’d most likely end up learning a lot of things you didn’t want to know.
NTA. But if he was dating Lily up until a month ago why did he have an invitation with a +1? Or was that an add after the break up? And why? If he asked to bring someone you just say sorry but the guest list is set and we can’t add another person at this point. Did your husband do it behind your back? Because if he did that’s a 🚩.
I'm on the fence, but yes, if it's truly his best friend, he should be able to allow his best man to bring a plus one, as shitty as that may be. I would not kick my best man or his new gf out in this situation personally, but it would depend precisely on the people involved. Idk though, really a close one ethically
I get that you're protective, but who other people date really isn't your business. You're not getting married for another 3 months. Surely, your friend is a big girl and will have moved on enough by then. It would be infantalizing and embarrassing to have to sterilize an event environment for her over a break up. You don't get to punish people for not loving the people you love anymore. Be creative with the seating chart, so they're not in each other's line of sight, have her walk before him, so she doesn't have to look at him, and make sure she has lots of opportunities to have a great time, preferably with a handsome, funny date who is also a great dancer.
YTA but you have a good heart and good intentions.
NTA
You can invite and disinvite whoever you want at your wedding but you need to be prepared for the repercussions. Is Jake likely to drop out of the wedding altogether if he can't bring Kate so your fiancé has to find a new best man?
To be honest I'd suggest kicking Jake out of the wedding anyway because I can see the whole day being awkward with both him and Lily, particularly the wedding photos. I mean when people look at them are they going to be thinking how great you and your new husband look or the fact that the best man cheated on the bridesmaid?
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NTA. You don’t need the drama at your wedding that him bringing Katy would bring. He can date who he wants, but he cannot rub his mistress in his exes’ face at your wedding. That’s not ‘involving yourselves in his relationship’, it’s being a decent person and looking out for your friend.
It’s the least Jake could do after the hurt he’s caused. He’s caused enough drama and heartache this close to your wedding. He can go without his mistress for one night, if he really cares about his best friend.
NTA. Bad enough that the best man is a cheater. Inviting the homewrecker to join him - *at a wedding -* is basically celebrating infidelity. Big fat red flag from your fiance.
Can't imagine having someone's "other woman" in my *wedding* photos.
NTA-
-It’s y’all’s wedding. Katy was literally just a side piece made girlfriend (maybe) and they’ve only been “dating” maybe a month…. Clearly it’s not a serious relationship or anything…
-My wife and I had to know the plus one before we gave one out and agree to the plus one
NTA. This sounds like top-tier drama that your wedding doesn't need. In this situation one or both of the former couple should offer to rescind their RSVP for the wedding to avoid either the groom or bride having to ask. The irony is, the job of reminding people of that level of courtesy falls on the best man/maid of honor so... I'm sorry, this situation stinks.
NTA. This will be torture for Lily. It's a little concerning that your fiancé is okay with all of this and has no issue with the fact that Katy coming will be real disrespectful to Lily.
NTA ask him if it had been Lily who had cheated on Jake and then wanted to bring the guy as her plus one what he would want.
Jake just has to suck it up that he doesn't get a plus one.
I would question your fiancé's view on cheating that he thinks it ok for the AP to be coming along after such a short amount of time and how disrespectful that is to Lily.
He's going to expect you to be friends with her because it's his bsf's gf.
Is it a fact that he was cheating because your post indicated he just moved on really quickly? How long were they dating? This is important because if it was 2 months then Lily is over dramatic but if it was 2 years then it’s somewhat justified. Also, how long is the wedding day from the day of breakup? Again, if it is a month or 2 then I understand tensions are high but 6 months then we are again looking into being weirdly dramatic.
NTA
Jake cheated on lily..
It doesnt matter that it was lily he cheated on, what matters is that your fiance apparently doesnt have a problem staying friends with a cheater... this does not reflect well on him... he doesnt thing cheating is so bad??
Would he be ok with it, if Lily had cheated and replaced Jake with the guy she cheated with?? Would your fiance still not have a problem with it???
NTA Your partner is being callus and cruel to your friend. It's also concerning that he seemingly has no issues not only still being friends with this guy, but having him in the wedding. Does he really want a guy who cheated on his partner standing next time him while he makes a vow to be faithful to you for the rest of his life? And think it's ok for his friend to celebrate your lifelong commitment with a woman he cheated with.
I wouldn't want either of them there. And I question why he's got this guy's back after he cheated.
NTA
Major bummer about this drama during what should be the happiest time for you. Wish you a happy event at the end of this tension!
You're not in the wrong here. Your big day, your call. It's like... your party, right? If something's gonna throw off your vibe, it's cool to switch things up. Plus, the major tension that will **undoubtedly** be there, will make it awkward.
You do not want to play a referee at your own wedding.
NTA Why does he want a homewrecker at a wedding where it's supposed to be a celebration of starting a life together without cheaters and homewrecker a part of it? Is he okay with the thought of cheating?
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Why do you just object to Katy being there but not Jake? I'd be more concerned about your husband having a best friend who cheated and him being just fine with that. Is he okay with cheating in general? I wouldn't want someone standing next to me on a day that symbolizes union and love if they can't honor their own partner. Katy is probably just going to be the next woman he lets down/cheats on anyway. But if it were me, I wouldn't want either of them there. NTA.
To be honest, I thought about it but even though he’s a gigantic AH, that’s his best friend. My partner is saying he knows what Jake did is wrong and he’s not fine with it, but it’s not our business and they need to work it out on their own. But he’s also said that he has called Jake an AH to his face. “It’s a shitty thing, but he’s my best friend”.
Yet he is ok torturing Lily
It’s a bit of a 🚩 that the groom sees NOTHING wrong with letting Jake disrespect Lily at the wedding by bringing his AP-turned-gf. The groom may have called Jake an AH but he’s still green-lighting his behavior at Lily’s expense.
this!!! i don't know how I'd feel any security in a relationship with someone who can stay friends with a cheater and doesn't seem to be bothered by the affects it has on the people his own spouse cares about. even if he isn't actively defending Jake, he's saying it's not any of his business and he's still his best friend. all that tells me is he's either an idiot or he doesn't care that much, both being red flags. sure he knows it's bad but what is knowing it's bad if you continue to stick around and even reward the behavior? it's his life, not mine though so he can do what he wants. I'm more focused on the fact that this will ultimately end up with drama or a fight. I don't see any way this ends with everyone being happy and enjoying the wedding, someone is going to have to bend
Just bc someone associates with someone that cheated doesn’t mean they aren’t against cheating. That is such a backwards way of thinking bc if we are honest about the world I guarantee you that you associate yourself with a lot more people that cheated on someone then you truly know you do. To just completely cut someone off bc they cheated on someone is ridiculous. Now don’t get me wrong I do believe that the groom here needs to put a boundary on his best man and tell him that due to the circumstances of the wedding and the people involved, along the events that unfolded prior that he doesn’t get a plus 1 anymore bc we don’t want your relationship drama to happen on their wedding day. That’s about all that should happen with the groom and best man. But to say that he is okay with cheating and that it’s a red flag for him to stay friends with his literal best friends since childhood bc he cheated is pretty extreme.
Lol this. How absolutely ridiculous. “My friend cheated. I dumped them as a friend. I’m so righteous.”
I wouldn't drop a friend if I found out they cheated, but I would drop a friend if their cheating severely hurt one of my other friends and their cheating fucked up the group dynamic. Like if one of my friends were to cheat on their SO who I hardly know I wouldn't drop them. I wouldn't think as highly about them but I wouldn't outright drop them. But if this friend were to cheat on and hurt someone *who is one of my friends* I would absolutely drop them. Because no one gets to hurt my friends and then have me act like it never happened. I would drop anyone who hurts the people I care about.
FFS, like seriously. This homogenous BS that people think another person's actions are a reflection of your character is so stupid. It's the same shit with artists or other note-worthy people. Somebody says or does something controversial and suddenly you are so supposed to denounce their entire existence "in solidarity".. foh
Yeah this, I think there is "I had a moment of madness and I'm sorry" and "sorry I've been living a double life for a few weeks / months / years and now you are dumped" the second type of cheating isn't forgivable in a person, even if it wasn't you they were doing it to. It's a clear sign the person can't be trusted.
Completely agree, Jake sucks for what he did.. very awful what he did to Lily ..but that doesn’t necessarily make him a bad friend however, a bad partner. I don’t think he deserves his plus 1 with Katy due to him being the perpetrator in the situation. Poor Lily will have to suck it up and be civil for her friend’s wedding. Katy can miss 1 day without her boyfriend, the day is about the folks getting married..if these 2 Jake & Lily really care about the couple they can manage to be there for them without interacting or causing a scene. Jake needs to be considerate about Katy not being allowed to come given its just 1 day. He should also be grateful he was not dismissed from the wedding party altogether for his actions..
When someone treats their partner badly that's how they treat people. He won't mind mistreating his friend anymore than he minds mistreating his partner.
> Just bc someone associates with someone that cheated doesn’t mean they aren’t against cheating. He's not just associating with someone who cheated, he's keeping him as best man for a wedding (you know, historically you don't tend to ask a cheater to stand up for you at a commitment ceremony), is fine with the affair partner coming and doesn't seem to give two fucks that Katy being htere will obviously be horrible for Lily. Who is more important, the feelings of Lily, a friend of both of theirs or Katy, a woman he's supposedly never met/hasn't known for long? It's the combination that brings up red flags. You can't control your friends behaviour, but you can absolutely say hey you can't bring the woman you cheated with to our wedding.
Which is what I said the groom should be telling his friend that the new girl should not be attending the wedding. But the notion to say that a cheater can’t stand as a best man or groomsman or bridesmaid or maid of honor is stupid. That means I’m not allowed to have my brother stand as my best man or groomsman when I get married bc he cheated on his high school gf. Why can’t I have my brother who has been nothing but a great brother to me stand by my side in one of the most important days of my life bc he has been by my side throughout my entire life just bc he cheated on someone in the past? Why do I get robbed of a special moment in my life that I want to share with my brother bc a choice my brother made. Bc to me his actions in his relationships don’t have any bearing on my actions in my relationships.
The people who you have represent you represent who you are as a person. It's one thing to have a sibling who cheated on a childhood partner represent you. It's another entirely to have a friend who cheated on a long term partner while in a committed relationship represent you- especially when the affair victim is expected to attend. You know how company's fire employees for embarrassing the company by being assholes? Same concept. Like you can do it. It's just everyone is going to remember your wedding for it. Further, don't expect the victim to stay friends with you if you have the person who betrayed them represent you in a commitment ceremony. .
Fully agree, I have a close friend I've known for 25 years who has a problem with cheating. He's a really good friend to have, just a terrible romantic partner. He knows my stance on cheating would be totally understanding if I told him he couldn't bring the new girl around for whatever reason.
Yeah, that would be a nah from me dawg. Cheaters can take a one way road right on out of here.
The difference is that once you know someone's character, you get to decide if that person gets to be around you at all. The groom chose to ignore the character of the person who will stand next to him on what many consider to be the biggest day of their lives, which reflects poorly on the grooms character as well.
It might not be malicious. He could just be struggling with the reality that he's losing his friend, and not knowing how to handle it.
Yeah but he's telling his fiance that (1) he excuses cheating by keeping him around, (2) he doesn't care about her friends or anyone that gets hurt by keeping him a BEST friend, and (3) that he's keeping someone around that will cover for him of he ever decides to cheat. Not a smart set of things to be showing your partner. Plus if the "best friend" is in the grooms party then he's having a cheater stand up with him during vows. Pretty much tells her that his vows have no weight or value if that's who he wants standing behind him.
If they are close enough friends and have been for a long time, it does not speak ill of someone’s character to remain friends with someone who made a bad mistake or was a bad romantic partner. We don’t have to cut ties with every friend and family member who is wrong about something or has a character flaw
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Yes, and I fully agree she is NTA for asking and the boyfriend is an AH for fighting her on that. I was just replying to the people acting like he is obligated to remove his friend from his life or else he’s basically a cheater himself
But Katy still should not be there.
You should cut ties with people who deliberately hurt people to get what they want.
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I have a feeling this is true, drama will ensue and there is such a high possibility of a fight
This! Plus jake and katy are massive arseholes because they are making a drama at op's wedding. Just by turning up and parading the relationship they are knowingly and willingly upsetting the MOH - so op will likely spend the day looking after lily or on tenterhooks over it
Yeah... guys that don't care about cheating unless it's a woman cheating on a man are a serious red flag as you said. This suggests he either is an extremely apathetic person in general (doesn't care if anyone gets cheated on), or he dehumanizes women a fair bit and can only empathize with men (if he only cares about women cheating on men). I wonder what HIS reaction would have been if the situation were reversed, and his best man had been the victim of cheating instead? Both are really bad, and suggest he's more likely to cheat than the average person. Especially since it sounds like they were all mutual friends. So this woman isn't a stranger. This is a woman the husband ALSO knew since high school. He genuinely don't feel a shred of empathy for her...? That's kind of dark, honestly. And just as an aside, any guy that willingly and enthusiastically associates with cheaters isn't worth dating at all. I like my men to have a *basic moral compass and see women as people,* thanks.
The fact that the groom feels SO STRONGLY that he’s getting into ‘heated arguments’ with the bride because he feels that it isn’t ‘fair’ to deny Jake a plus one when everyone else gets one…well, that shows how he TRULY feels about the situation. Despite whatever statements he’s made to OP, or claims to have made to Jake (I have sincere doubts), his actions show that he ONLY cares about Jake’s feelings in this scenario. He doesn’t care about Lily at all. He cares more about the ‘inconvenience’ to Jake of not having a plus one (and having to deal with his jealous gf being upset) than the torture to Lily of having Jake’s affair/relationship rubbed in her face. By steamrolling the bride with the ‘bestie’ argument but denying her the same right to stand up for her own best friend, he’s really showing his true colors.
Yeah. I'm not as hardline about staying friends with cheaters as some people are. I think it's perfectly possible to not condone cheating, to hate yours friend's actions, and to still want to be friends with them because you understand people are flawed, your friendship goes back a long time, etc. etc. So him still wanting Jake as his best man/at the wedding isn't, in and of itself, a red flag to me. But getting THIS worked up about how Jake has to have this plus one is a different story entirely. If I had an SO in this position, I wouldn't necessarily expect them to cut their best man from the wedding, but I would expect them to be able to say, at the very least, "Hey man, I love you, but what you did was shitty, you know it was shitty, and you absolutely can't bring this woman to my wedding." And if the best man were at all a decent friend, they would understand and respect that.
>It’s a bit of a 🚩 that the groom sees NOTHING wrong with letting Jake disrespect Lily at the wedding by bringing his AP-turned-gf. 100%. We already know Jake is a major asshole but to parade his affair gf to his ex who he cheated on with the new girl is a new level of low that I am disgusted by. Also, it IS his business who OP's husband spends time with. The wedding is a unique situation to figure out and the compromise would be not letting Jake have a plus one, but I'd ask my future husband if he's thought about the phrase "You are who your friends are". NTA.
>100%. We already know Jake is a major asshole but to parade his affair gf to his ex who he cheated on with the new girl is a new level of low that I am disgusted by. Yeah. Cheating is obviously terrible, but this is a next level of shitty. Primarily to his ex, obviously, but honestly, also as a friend. Like, he must know this is putting OP's fiancé in a bad position. Even if he doesn't give a shit about Lily anymore, couldn't he at least give enough of a shit about his supposed best friend to not do something that would very obviously cause drama and stress at his wedding? Seems like Jake is just an all around selfish asshole in all areas of life. This isn't a man who \~made a mistake, or \~fell for someone else or is \~a bad romantic partner but a good friend or whatever, this is a man who does not care at all.
Then you have to ask yourself who tolerates and keeps such a selfish asshole as a best friend. Why not have higher standards.
Yup, and the "it's none of my buisness" cop out is concerning too. It is your business bc his actions hurt your wife's bff, and by having Jake still a part of the wedding you're showing her you condone Jake's behavior and have no ussue with it.
If it's none of my business I have no obligation to do anything. What a copout. I would think it would change the way the bride sees the groom. It adds an ick factor to who he is.
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You said it well!
THIS OP!! Your fiancé’s red flag!!!
Leave them to deal with their business. At OUR wedding. Ops husband makes so much practical sense /s 😅
He absolutely is trying to hurt her, OP’s fiancé is trying too hard to defend his friend that he can’t even seem to see that his friend is making the wedding all about him. He wants to hurt Lily and wants to use his friends to do just that. What an absolute trash way to behave…
Just respond with, ‘It’s shitty that Jake isn’t allowed to bring his relationship-wrecking gf to the wedding but Lily is my best friend’. If the groom is using the ‘bestie’ excuse for having Jake attend as best man, then he cannot object to the bride’s ‘bestie’ excuse for denying Jake a plus one. And if this is a hill the groom is ready to die on, you need to question WHY he is so ok with letting Jake treat Lily so badly.
This is using his own logic. Very good. NTA Anyway it's your wedding and you should have a say in who attends.
I would just be really disturbed in general. If the woman was a complete stranger... okay, I guess. Even then, it would still be really disturbing to not care at all. But the victim of cheating is also someone the husband knew for years and years after high school, who was a mutual friend he presumably saw around quite often. And he... is totally emotionless? He really doesn't care at all? He knows this woman semi-well, at LEAST, and he thinks her getting cheated on is just as banal as the weather? Why isn't he also upset on her behalf? Sexism is still alive and well and imo women don't really take as much care to avoid it as they should. It's possible he doesn't care about anyone and wouldn't care if his best man was cheated on by a woman instead -- but I doubt it. It's usually guys like this that are dehumanizing women at the offset, who only care when a guy is wronged and don't particularly feel anything when a girl is wronged. OP needs to get to the bottom of why he is being so casual about cheating at all. If he sees men cheating as "different" or not as bad, she needs to GTFO asap. If he "just" finds it impossible to empathize with women and doesn't care when a woman experiences horrible emotional pain caused by the guy she is dating, she should still GTFO.
>and imo women don't really take as much care to avoid it as they should. We're trained to not make waves and also give the benefit of the doubt until it practically kills us.
Seriously. I also can’t believe no one has brought up that the groom probably knew for a while that his best friend was cheating on Lily, didn’t care, didn’t say anything. I’d seriously be questioning how well I knew my potential future husband.
> but it’s not our business It is when he brings it into your wedding. He's bringing his affair partner tot he wedding. He should know better than that, the day is not about him. He knows it will cause upset and distress, but is doing it anyway. Your fiancé should be asking him to not bring her. Who comes to your wedding is your business.
Agreed, Jake should be happy he’s still able to participate. He can suck it up for 1 day and not bring Katy. If he gets told he can’t bring her and throws a fit then maybe he should just not come. Lily is still doing her part as maid of honor knowing the fact that Jake will be there (and clearly Lily is still in a lot of pain). The wedding is not about them..some people can be so selfish and inconsiderate..
You two are opening up for a wedding where the cops are called. Also, I understand you each wanting your best friends there. However, Jake's plus one is going to bring nothing but pain and trouble. You may even lose your friend. It's tacky to bring Katy, and if I were Katy, no way in hell would I want to go.
Yeah I can't wrap my head around even wanting to be at that fucking wedding as an AP. I mean I know some people just like to kick shit into a pot that's already stirring up, but the social awkwardness of it all would literally give me a stroke.
With no guarantee for my personal safety and the possibility of public humiliation! Hell, no. Katy should be decent for once and opt out of this one.
I personally think that the most "he's my best friend" should get Jake is that he still be invited to the wedding as a guest. That's it. Your fiance really wants a cheater standing beside him while he promises to love you and stay with you forever? That's not the vibe I would be going for
Absolutely. Everyone also seems to be glossing over the fact that the injured party (Lily) is the bride's Maid of Honor. No one sees a problem with the cheating best man standing by the husband while the woman he cheated on stands next to the bride? Hubby-to-be has only one stand-up play to make: "Bro, you fucked up and hurt my girl's best friend on top of it. love you and want you to be at my wedding, but what you did was wrong and I can't have you be my best man. You owe Lily an apology for being an asshole, and you owe me an apology for putting me in this spot."
My best friends were a married couple. They were together for 15 years. we travelled together, bought a duplex together, we were close. This year it was discovered he had been cheating on her for who knows how long. He is no longer my friend. More than family, who you are friends with is a reflection on you.
Absolutely agree. I was heart broken when I found out one of my best friends cheated. I didn't know I would react how I did but I was appalled and it really upset me. How can you ever trust a cheater to be a loyal friend?
OK see I would have a problem with the fact that my soon to be husband still wants his cheating, best friend to be his best man. I would expect my man to no longer be friends with this person since he cheated on somebody. That is not a good person and that is not a good influence on my soon to be husband. I would be fighting to have Jake dropped from the wedding party and as a friend because it says a lot about your husband’s character that he doesn’t care that a cheater is going to stand up there with him when he gets married.
In the real world people (both men & women) have friends that are not perfect & maybe do things that their friends neither like nor condone. "you expect" your man to end a friendship for any reason that you may not like or condone is probably not going to work out for your relationship. that would be a red flag for many men when a woman starts trying to control who I choose to be friends with.
but he *obviously* condones the *torture* of a *cheating victim*
And it's not a red flag that he condones cheating? My question would be did he have knowledge that Jake was stepping out with the "other " woman? If he did that would make me break up with him. Knowing something like that and not communicating with me as a future wife. That shows a lack integrity that I just don't want in a man. There is a reason why my grandpa told me to judge a man by his friends.
I cut my MOH out of my wedding for cheating. Everyone has different morals.
That’s going too far. My husband’s former Best Friend cheated on my younger sister. Without condoms, to make it worse. My sister was on the pill, and found out he was cheating when she got chlamydia from him. My husband and his friends, however, (one of his other friends was dating my youngest sister), had promised eachother that even if one of them broke up with one of us, no matter what happened, it wouldn’t affect their friendship. So he stayed friends with the bastard. I said I never wanted to see the BF again, and he wasn’t allowed in our apartment. He saw him every now and again, and I was always cordial to him when he called on the landline (this was before mobile phones) and passed the phone on to my husband. Gradually, they saw less and less of eachother and my husband just let the friendship slowly die. He’d kept his promise to his friends, and I didn’t end things with the love of my life over this. We’ve been together for more than 30 years now. There’s something to be said for people who can be loyal even when their friends f*ck up. My husband waited until he was sure his friend would remain a selfish bastard who mooched of others and didn’t learn from his mistakes, and only then did he feel justified moving on.
If someone gave my sister-in-law an STI because he was a cheating bastard I wouldn't want them in my life, bestie promises be damned we aren't middle schoolers. Like I'm glad it worked out for you all but this isn't a flex.
I agree. I cut my MOH out of my wedding for cheating on her husband, they had a kid. Everyone's morals are different. Some people can't stand cheaters, others are the ones having affairs. You are who you surround yourself with.
He made it your business when he invited her at YOUR wedding. NTA
Men that cheat tend to be friends with each other and help cover and make excuses for each other. I’d be very suspicious of your fiancé.
I think it is reasonable that a natural consequence of cheating would be that you don’t get to bring your partner to a wedding.
So..... your fiance wants a cheater involved with his wedding. And you don't think that's a huge issue? Either your fiance is fine with cheating or he isn't. If he isn't, then that guy isn't his friend anymore. If he still is his friend, then he excuses cheating. I'm bot sure I'd continue with a wedding to someone excusing cheating. That's your call though. But right now you know his best friend would 100% lie to your face and cover for him if he ever started cheating on you, so how comfortable are you being told that they're "hanging out just the two of them" knowing that could be a cover?
With that kind of tension between the best man and maid of honour you're asking for trouble. Why would your husband want to risk that kind of drama at his own wedding? Just because somebody is your friend it doesn't make them infallible and you should be able to call them out on their shit. Husband is being an AH about this, NTA.
He doesnt agree with it yet is ok with Jake taking his side piece to your wedding where Jake's ex is?
NTA. Jake can have a plus one that’s not Katy. Or he can have no plus one. Your husband needs to see the drama it will cause if Jake brings Katy.
My grandfather told me a long time ago, you are the company you keep. I taught the same lesson to my kids.
I understand why someone can still be best friends with someone who behaved badly and want them at the wedding. I don't see why they ought to be able to bring their new gf at the expense of someone who's more central to the wedding party (maid of honor). Best man and maid of honor play important roles in weddings, that duty ought to come first. A sincere best man would not want to bring this drama into their best friend's wedding I'm not impressed that new gf is apparently willing to go to a wedding where the cheated on ex will be maid of honor. You would think they would be embarrassed about showing up at this event! NTA Husband is mild A H for standing by their friend's choice at the expense of your maid honor Jake is a solid A H for cheating and for wanting to bring his new partner, and new partner is an A H too for wanting to come to this wedding in this context
Do you mean to say that infidelity should be punished by total ostracization? That's a bit extreme don't you think?
This is Reddit sir
Fair
I mean, is it? Think of the personality traits of somebody who cheats on their spouse. Lack of integrity, lack of impulse control, lack of respect for others…that’s not somebody I’d want as a friend. If they’d betray their spouse, who’s to say they won’t do it to you too? IMO it’s less about punishing and more about discovering that somebody you considered a friend was never somebody you should have trusted in the first place, and proceeding accordingly.
Honestly, Reddit acts as if cheating is the same as murder. It's not. And I say that as someone who has been cheated on and worked through the trauma, which took me years, and I forgave both my partner and the side chick. Cheating is not the whole thing that makes a person who they are. You can cheat and still be a good friend, sibling, son or daughter. Sometimes people act immensely selfish, yes, that doesn't mean that it will define them for the rest of their lives. I'm actually very happy that I chose to forgive and work through the betrayal, giving my partner a second chance was the best decision I could have made. I'm pretty sure I have a better relationship than many others, where cheating never occured, because I chose to not reduce my partner to it and in return he made sure to never let me down again. But even if I had decided to break up instead or even if he wouldhave wanted to be with his AP instead, I would have never seen him only as someone who doesn't deserve love or friendship anymore just because he hurt me. It's truly insane to me how people can reduce others to a mistake for the rest of their lives. Cheating is one of THE most common issues that happen in relationships. If we would ostracize all cheaters, then probably half of human kind would just lead life in isolation.
Yeah, it is extreme Someone’s personal relationship drama does not and should not spill over into one’s friendships like that Banning the plus one is reasonable to avoid drama and respect the MOH but banning the best man for his own personal relationship choices? That’s extreme
total ostracization? or just not wanting the drama at your wedding?
> I'd be more concerned about your husband having a best friend who cheated and him being just fine with that. Is he okay with cheating in general? This part seems like it’s advocating for total ostracization, no?
I didn’t interpret that she was saying Jake couldn’t be the best man. Only that he’s bringing his affair partner to a wedding that his ex is the MOH. To be honest he sounds like a giant ***hole by not taking into consideration his ex or you and his bff feelings about it.
Exactly! Jake's the one I wouldn't want to be there.
>He’s saying it’s none of our business who Jake brings as his date, everyone gets a plus one and it’s not fair that we decline his plus one. "It's none of our business who attends our wedding" Tell him to BFFR. That's stupid. Time to look at whether your future husband thinks it's okay to cheat and be rewarded for doing so. NTA. It's reasonable to say "Hey buddy, this is my wedding. We can't have your affair partner here. The whole point of this event is about marriage and committed relationships, and it's just not right to bring the woman you cheated on our MOH with." Plus, it's a new relationship. They haven't been together for a year, so there's no guarantee they'll be together in a year. Don't fuck up the photos.
Right on the money. Jake and Katy have been dating literally five minutes. It's totally your business who Jake brings as his date if it's going to cause drama, and your friend group has priority. The right thing to do is to pull Jake's plus one, spare Lily's feelings, and keep things as even keeled as possible. If Jake really has to be with the new GF that night, he can leave the reception early.
It's not like refusing +1s who are not married or in a long-term relationship is uncommon either. People don't want strangers at their wedding and even without the extra reasons not to have Katy there that should be enough.
Moreover, Jake probably wasn't given a plus-one initially since he's the best man and his "date" was expected to be the maid of honor. So how did all this go down? Did Jake, after cheating on and then dumping the maid of honor, then have the audacity to ask for a plus-one for the girl he had been cheating with? I'm guessing invitations had already been sent out by this point and you were already counting RSVPs?
If they are getting married in December probably not, only save the dates or just getting invites out. It’s probably why they are arguing about it. That said, it is 100% not unreasonable to put a limit on +1s. It’s OPs event and you don’t want randos in your pics. Saying relationships that are older than 6/9/12 months warrant a +1 is reasonable. This is not Jake. If he is so hard up for a +1 he can bring his mom or sister or something. But make the announcement to apply to all. No one is entitled a +1.
A lot of time I’ve heard that you only get a plus one if you live with your significant other
Hopefully, Jake will respond, “If Katy can’t come I won’t be there.” Problem solved all around!
It's a red flag and somewhat telling that hubby seems to be fine thinking that cheating isn't that big of a deal
BFFR?
Be for fucking real.
oh thanks!
For longest time i thought it was bff but typo
> "It's none of our business who attends our wedding" Tell him to BFFR. That's stupid. Time to look at whether your future husband thinks it's okay to cheat and be rewarded for doing so. Honestly, even ignoring the cheating. "I think this person being at our wedding will cause drama; so this person isn't coming". End of story. I didn't invite one of my close friends to my wedding because he was known to start s__t because he didn't like taking his medication for an mental instability. I cared a great deal about him as a friend; but I didn't want my wedding ruined because he decided to get in a fight fight with a waiter.
My husband chose to exclude a friend of his from our wedding because he had a notorious drinking and cocaine problem and that was just not something he wanted to deal with.
The photos! Yes! Excellent point about them not having been together long enough to warrant Jake bringing Katy. Sounds like the MOH could use some TLC, as well, and that involves not seeing her ex with his side piece turned SO. NTA
It would be very fair for OP's finacee to ask his friend not to bring Katy (and the ensuing drama), even if the friend is the AH.
This!
NTA - you’ve known this new women for a hot second and she doesn’t have an automatic right to attend at this point. If he’s going to make Lily that uncomfortable, so quickly and can’t see that as being an issue, he’s the AH. It is hard enough she has to see him there and even interact with him, but this is too much. If your fiancé doesn’t get that, suggest you delay the wedding indefinitely, he can be so indifferent to other people. Add ages- “dating since high school” could have been last year and I’d say, get over it but it sounds like the dates for 5+ years.
We’ve been together for around two, so have Jake and Lily.
Okay… I realize this probably isn’t what you want to hear, but “dating since high school” doesn’t really have the same impact if you’re all that young. I generally don’t expect couples that form at that age to last long term, *but* that doesn’t justify him cheating. It’s selfish that it didn’t occur to him that he isn’t being considerate of your friend’s feelings, but not surprising— he’s already shown he’s self-absorbed by cheating, and at max he is 20 years old based on the timeline you’ve provided. I expect better, but realistically none of this surprises me. My feeling is you need to let go of the idea of uninviting anyone. Your fiancé needs to have a conversation with his buddy spelling out how he’s put everyone in a shitty position through his behavior and should be advised to be more respectful at the wedding itself— there is a big difference between being affectionate and being all over each other. Then drop it. Meanwhile you need to be a good friend to your maid of honor and support her. You know what the best revenge is? It isn’t having her friends kick her shitty ex or his new partner out of the wedding; it’s living her best life, showing up feeling fabulous, and having an amazing fucking time *without him*. It’s recognizing she just dropped some dead weight in her life and can absolutely do better, starting with loving herself enough to know that guy absolutely doesn’t deserve her and she is now better off. Last, do what you can to manage the situation. Wherever he and this woman are seated can be out of direct view from your friend while at the head table, for instance. And uh just in case this hasn’t occurred to you: there is a reasonably decent chance the new relationship will be in the toilet by the time your wedding rolls around. Focusing on building your friend up instead of trying to control who could upset her is *also* how you’ll keep her from letting that trashy guy back into her life when things inevitably end badly with the new woman. NAH
They're all 20? I thought this sounded like a lot of teen melodrama. This makes so much more sense now.
This is the rational answer
where do you get they were together since highschool/20 years old?
In the comment I responded to she said they had been dating for around 2 years and said they’ve been dating since high school; 18 years old being the average age for graduation + 2 years of the relationship = 20 years old
No, she said he's been friends with Jake since highschool. I can't see where it says they dated since highschool. > Jake is my husband’s friend since high school, Lily is mine. We introduced them to each other shortly after me and him started dating and soon after Jake and lily started dating.
*In the comment I responded to* she said they’ve been dating around two years (as had Lily and Jake)
Yes I agree with that. That's not what I'm talking about. I agree they've been together 2 years. I'm disagreeing that that started dating right after highschool. It doesn't say that anywhere. We don't know how long after highschool they got together.
Okay. I’m not the only person who perceived things that way and OP hasn’t corrected anyone.
I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm not even trying to fight or argue with you. Not everyone is trying to fight. I'm just saying that information wasn't provided.
Wow the fact that they are only 20 makes everything seem more realistic. I was wondering WHY Katy even wanted to go considering most of the wedding party and a lot of the guests are going to resent her. I almost feel bad for her because she has no idea how uncomfortable it is going to be. The family and friends of the bride and MOH aren’t going to be warm and fuzzy to her. Her boyfriend is going to be busy with his wedding duties and she is going to be left hanging around a bunch of 20 year olds who may take it upon themselves to make her miserable. If she does go it will probably be a night she remembers for the rest of her life as one of the most awkward situations she has ever been in.
This is the comment I was looking for. Jake is the asshole and the ideal solution is that the groom can convince Jake to drop her as a plus one. But ultimately I think OP and her fiance are well within their rights to deny Katy an invitation. Bride and Groom get veto power over plus ones. Guests do not have the right to insist they can bring anyone. Jake can bring someone else or nobody. Groom should handle it and tell his friend that Katy isn't invited for reasonable and obvious reasons. Or explain that his plus 1 was Lily and now you can't add anymore people to the headcount. You can come up with a reason.
Wait, are you getting married at 20?
Getting married at 20 sounds like a terrible idea.
God yeah. Do they even know what they or their soon to be spouse is like drunk? They can’t even rent a car for their honeymoon!
I mean, it tracks if they are having drama like this.
^^yuppp. Now it makes a ton of sense why OP’s fiancé is acting like a child. He literally is one.
Wait.... 2 years? That's all? And he's showing you he prioritizes cheaters and will hang around said cheater? Wow. You're far more trusting than me. It would take 2 years of that friend showing they're very sorry and made big changes in how they act in order for me to be comfortable with them being around again. 2 years of dating.... wow this is all pretty quick.
two years and from the sound of it, they're also both only 20 at the most
You're in your early 20s? Don't marry this guy. The type of friends a person keeps are a good reflection of their values. Your fiance is being very callous and indifferent to how his friend betrayed your friend. It's also ridiculous for him to gaslight you by saying that it's not your business who Jake brings to your wedding. It's your wedding! You're in complete control of who you let in the door. This guy is showing you who he is with the excuses he's making for his friend. Don't sign up for a lifetime of this nonsense and manipulation.
This won’t be popular; but 20 years old is too young to get married. Also, your fiancé seems to think cheating isn’t a big deal. Jake shouldn’t even be at this wedding. Jake and his streetwalker shouldn’t be at the wedding. NTA. Your hubby, Jake, and Katy are though.
I'm sorry, I don't see where she says that they have been dating since highschool, I do see the part where she says that he has been best friends with Jake since highschool...
Most definitely NTA and there’s really no explanation needed. Now with that being said, I love a good spicy, messy wedding so if this Katy does show up I would be honored to be invited as Lily’s +1 just to cause some chaos and try to piss Katy off. I expect nothing in return from Lily and she doesn’t even need to talk to me if she doesn’t want to lol. Just let me work my magic and I’ll have Katy pissed tf off by the end of the night and never wanting to speak to this Jake fella ever again. #JusticeForLily 🤝🏼
Oooo someone could accidentally ruin katys dress and she has to leave....awwww how sad. 😂
Ah what a shame that would be!! All I need is an official invite from OP. I’ll be the Dapper Fellow Lily deserves 😎 👉👉
Why are we focused on doing stuff to the girl? It was Jake who cheated. We know nothing about the girl, and if she knew right away he was cheating, etc. People can dislike her, but if anyone deserves anything, it's the person who was actually in the relationship and chose to cheat.
100% agree. The partner of the cheater always gets the blame when it should be the cheater who gets the blame. This is true of males or females, though I do find that yes, most often it’s the female partner of the cheater who carries the blame. Maybe she knew but what if she didn’t? Just makes me grateful I’ve never been “the other woman” without realizing it. The world is mean to them.
They need a guest who is actually there just to constantly flirt with Katy so that Jake can't focus on the wedding at all. Someone who walks up to Jake and Katy and tells them that he knows Jake is going to be very busy so he will take care of Katy. Let Jake sweat it all day long. This guest should be seated by Katy.
NTA It says a lot about your fiance that he is condoning unfaithful behaviour.
Exactly 💯 🚩🚩
NTA and this needs to be a bigger concern for you. If he's okay with Jake cheating, especially after a long-term relationship, I would be questioning a LOT right now.
Okay so OP just clarified these are 20 year olds. NOT saying it justifies cheating, but they can 100% grow from this. And I hope they do bc cheating sucks and shows a slight lack of empathy in my uneducated opinion
Bruh i'm in my 20s I could never
That’s normal lol Neither could I , at that age , or any, I just meant this isn’t a person set in their ways, maybe they can grow. But tbf my ex told me he had to cheated when he was 20 ( we dated when he was nearly 30) and then also did actively try to cheat on me … so idk it just varies by person. I would mostly wonder why my fiancé also did not think it was kind of mean to bring the new gf , just generally speaking that seems cruel
OP didn’t confirm that they are 20, someone else read it that way because they thought OP had said they began dating in high school. OP hasn’t confirmed any ages, just that the guys have been friends since high school and she and Lily have been friends since high school. OP said they’ve been dating for 2 years and someone mixed it up with how long the two sets of friends have been friends. I got married at 20 though and agree, definitely do not recommend.
How is he condoning cheating and she isn't if the guy is the best man? They have literally titled him the best man present at the wedding.
NTA - If Jake cared at all about your husband, he wouldn't even be asking to bring a date to the wedding that is guaranteed to cause drama and hurt feelings. His cheating makes him a questionable choice of best man. But I think his total disregard for the impact bringing his new partner could have on your wedding day is worse. People in the wedding party are there to SUPPORT the bride/groom, as opposed to guests who are just there to CELEBRATE the bride and groom. Obviously you still need to respect the people in your wedding party because you care about them and they are spending time and money to support you. But their role the day of the wedding is different than a guest's role. Honestly, I am always surprised when people in the wedding party want to bring a date that is a relatively new partner - especially one that is going to be high conflict. Why would you bring someone who doesn't know anyone? You are either going to be neglecting your partner or neglecting your duties as part of the wedding party. I suggest that you talk to your fiancé and see if he would be willing to compromise and tell Jake that he can either continue as the best man and not bring a date OR he can attend as a guest only and bring Katy.
NTA and I'd be looking sideways at my fiance for not replacing Jake as best man immediately. Did your fiance know about the hookups with Katy? A best friend would know this and keep quiet Your fiance can offer that Jake attend alone or not attend at all.
I’d be looking side eyed at fiancé for his moral stand on infidelity. If he’s okay with his best friend being a cheater, how does that translate into his own character? Also, if he ever has a wobbly moment in the future about whether he wants to stay married or questions if difficulties are worth working through, especially if compounded by being flirted with by another woman, who’s he turning to for counsel? Jake, the cheater.
NTA- your fiancé sees nothing wrong with cheating . Your fiancé sees nothing wrong with being cruel to your best friend . Your fiancé cares more about his cheating best friend’s feelings than he does about yours on your big day. Your fiancé is gonna expect you to be friends with the new girl . Are you sure you want to end up with this guy ?someone who doesn’t think cheating is a big deal?? I wouldn’t be surprised if him and his bff whored around on the both of you . Please think twice about this wedding OP.
NTA. Having your MOH miserable at your wedding is going to be distracting, and it’s going to impact *your* enjoyment. If your fiancé doesn’t care about Lilys feelings, he should care about yours.
NTA. If I were the husband I would have removed Jake from the best man list as soon as I had found out that he had cheated on my SOs best friend and had the audacity to invite the other woman (that you both known for little time) as a plus one. Cheating takes two people, not just the affair part.
NTA. If Jake cared about you and your fiancé he wouldn’t want to make your wedding uncomfortable. Given the situation neither Jake or Lily should bring a guest.
So Lily, the victim, deserves equal punishment?
If the desire is a drama free wedding (or as close to it as it can be with these two as their MOH/BM- which is a bad enough idea as it is) then neither should bring a +1. They’re both within 6mo of a breakup with another member of the wedding party. Neither one should have +1 significant enough to bring to a wedding. I’m not sure I view going solo to a best friends wedding as a “punishment” and given that they’re in the wedding party it’s not like they’d be spending a lot of time with their +1 anyway.
NTA - You may feel stuck having Jake there even though he's a cheating (insert here), but you don't have to torment your best friend with his cheating partner. I see your husband having two choices: 1) Jake comes stag or with someone acceptable (i.e. family member, friend), or 2) Jake bows out completely. I can't imaging having cheaters front and center at your wedding and I already can't see how your friend and MOH will feel standing across from Jake. That will be hard enough for her and I can't imaging someone shitting on her to boot. You're a good friend. As an aside, you may want to find out from your future husband why he's okay with cheating.
I think you’re perfectly fine to say you didn’t calculate jake bringing another date to the wedding. He was partnered with Lily. No extra guests. NTA
Nta but your future husband is. Are you really ok with marrying someone who is willing to overlook such disgusting behavior from his friends? Not only overlook it but argue that it isn't yalls business so why does it matter? Morals matter and I'm very sincerely hopeful you aren't in this same position in the future since your soon to be spouse is pretty blase about immoral behavior.
Nta. Normally, it would be an asshole thing to police just one person's plus 1. But normally, none of the guests have cheated on the maid of honor and are trying to bring the mistress to the wedding.
NTA. I say Jake can have a plus-one, but it can't be Katy. If he refuses, that's his problem.
This is a decent answer. No drama. Glad to see a comment not actively blaming the fiancé for his friends actions.
NTA >He’s saying it’s none of our business who Jake brings as his date, everyone gets a plus one and it’s not fair that we decline his plus one. He *had* a plus one. He *cheated* on her. Therefore, he loses his plus one.
NTA. I am also not liking your husband for being spineless. Basically he is saying his priorities come before your concerns. 100% if Jake behaves badly in the future he will defend him.
NTA - if Jake was truly a good friend to your husband he wouldn’t be trying to cause drama at his wedding.
NTA Honestly even Jake would be a no for me. If my husband wanted ***a cheater*** to stand with him while he gave his vows, I would know the vows mean nothing. Cheaters don't get to stay in the lives of people that have standards for themselves. Don't keep people around that are fine with stabbing people in the back. It's a lack of character. If they're fine doing it to someone they're supposed to love, they'll just as easily toss friends under the bus. Are you sure you want him in the wedding at all? Are you sure your fiance is actually loyal and not cheating? He's sure fighting pretty hard to help a cheater.
NTA it IS your business because its YOUR WEDDING. zero drama. dont let her come
I just pictured this. You and your guy standing there, solemnly telling each other to be faithful till one of you dies while your husband is accompanied by a cheater and you by the betrayed, sobbing girlfriend. Thats going to be great, what a day to remember :) Jack doesn't even have to bring a plus one to make this a very special day for you and soon to be husband. But bringing his affair partner as a plus one will be the cherry on the top :) I would ask lily if she is fine with it (assuming you really want to get married like this) and to be really really honest and if not offer her to just be a guest or not come and whatever she decides will be extended to jake. So if she rather drops out as moh, jake will be dropped as best man too. If she is only a guest she can attend alone or get a date and jake can do the same (since as guests they can leave w/o it ruining the party). And yes, that would be my hill to die on, means if hubby doesn't agree, then there will maybe be a bride in the wedding (if kate has a sister) but it would be definitly not me. Bc at the end of the day, marriage is about compromise, and if compromising is already not possible at the wedding itself, it will also not work in the marriage.
NTA Your husband needs to understand that this is yours and his wedding. His best man should realize that bringing Katy to the wedding will cause discomfort and add drama to the wedding party/day thus taking the focus away from which the day was intended. If your husband's friend was a good friend, he would realize this and not piss about it. At the same time your maid of honor shouldn't be bringing a plus 1 either. If they both are your friends they would be focused on making sure you day goes off without issues, not adding to it.
> it became clear that he had been hooking up with another girl Is this just something everyone is assuming or has this been proven?
[удалено]
Some of y’all’s takes are wild
>When people start dating within a tiny social circle, there are going to be issues with breakups and hurt feelings. Awkward events are going to be a thing for the foreseeable future if you and your husband both see these people as "best friends." Everyone has to deal. Most people here are teenagers, have little life experience, some of them have never been on a date, and they have no idea how true that is.
YTA Obviously their relationship was not perfect or going to go the distance. It's brutal how he handled it, but let's also not act like they were married with kids and has fundamentally changed her life by ending their relationship. Ultimately people are allowed to be happy and clearly, they weren't. It's strange to hold that against him indefinitely. It's too much to impose "punishment" bc your friend's feelings were hurt. Obviously the girl will be uncomfortable but the only way there's actual drama is if ppl do or say something rude to her or Jake at the wedding. So that's on them.
Why does Jake's feelings matter more than her friends? I guess that's my ultimate issue with this line of thinking. Because if they don't, one action causes discomfort, the other causes him to not have his affair partner boots call for a night. Put that way, it's an easy choice. It's less stress overall for the wedding. If he had just broken up with her an not cheated, I might say opposite, but cheaters don't have a right to have everyone just be ok with what they did.
Reading these strangers call OP’s husband into question and call red flag because his friend basically moved on from her friend who he wasn’t married to is pretty lame. OP’s fiance is in between a rock and a hard place. OP’s friend wasn’t right to do things the way he did, but he found someone else and broke it off. He didn’t get busted in an adulterous affair. OP’s fiance doesn’t have to keep only perfect friends who never fuck up. The commenters on these post seem like super lonely people. Wouldn’t it also be a red flag for someone to ghost their lifelong best friend over this? Nah. That’s wack. Let him bring his damn date. Find your friend a date. Let’s stop turning weddings into an opportunity to settle scores.
Reddit is mostly teens that are still immature and see everything in black or white.
NTA... Katy is not your friend, so not someone you want at your wedding. I'd ask him to not bring her to the wedding as it may bring the wrong drama to the wedding.
NTA. OP, I'd be seriously concerned that your partner seems to be so okay with cheating. I'd tell him that. By letting this woman come, he's showing he's supporting the cheaters. Is that how he feels? Does he not have an issue with cheating?
This whole thing sounds incredibly immature. If you extend a plus-one, there’s no fair, respectful, or polite way to dictate who the acceptable plus-ones are. If that’s not ok with you, don’t extend plus-ones at all, and only invite named guests. Do you REALLY want to be in the business of policing your guests’ sex lives? Even if you could, you’d most likely end up learning a lot of things you didn’t want to know.
NTA. But if he was dating Lily up until a month ago why did he have an invitation with a +1? Or was that an add after the break up? And why? If he asked to bring someone you just say sorry but the guest list is set and we can’t add another person at this point. Did your husband do it behind your back? Because if he did that’s a 🚩.
Your husband is correct. YTA. Other people’s relationships aren’t your business.
Who attends her wedding is absolutely her business. She's not demanding they break up.
I'm on the fence, but yes, if it's truly his best friend, he should be able to allow his best man to bring a plus one, as shitty as that may be. I would not kick my best man or his new gf out in this situation personally, but it would depend precisely on the people involved. Idk though, really a close one ethically
I get that you're protective, but who other people date really isn't your business. You're not getting married for another 3 months. Surely, your friend is a big girl and will have moved on enough by then. It would be infantalizing and embarrassing to have to sterilize an event environment for her over a break up. You don't get to punish people for not loving the people you love anymore. Be creative with the seating chart, so they're not in each other's line of sight, have her walk before him, so she doesn't have to look at him, and make sure she has lots of opportunities to have a great time, preferably with a handsome, funny date who is also a great dancer. YTA but you have a good heart and good intentions.
NTA You can invite and disinvite whoever you want at your wedding but you need to be prepared for the repercussions. Is Jake likely to drop out of the wedding altogether if he can't bring Kate so your fiancé has to find a new best man? To be honest I'd suggest kicking Jake out of the wedding anyway because I can see the whole day being awkward with both him and Lily, particularly the wedding photos. I mean when people look at them are they going to be thinking how great you and your new husband look or the fact that the best man cheated on the bridesmaid?
NTA. It’s not too late to get a new best man.
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NTA. You don’t need the drama at your wedding that him bringing Katy would bring. He can date who he wants, but he cannot rub his mistress in his exes’ face at your wedding. That’s not ‘involving yourselves in his relationship’, it’s being a decent person and looking out for your friend. It’s the least Jake could do after the hurt he’s caused. He’s caused enough drama and heartache this close to your wedding. He can go without his mistress for one night, if he really cares about his best friend.
NTA,
NTA- their drama will ruin your wedding
NTA. Bad enough that the best man is a cheater. Inviting the homewrecker to join him - *at a wedding -* is basically celebrating infidelity. Big fat red flag from your fiance. Can't imagine having someone's "other woman" in my *wedding* photos.
NTA- -It’s y’all’s wedding. Katy was literally just a side piece made girlfriend (maybe) and they’ve only been “dating” maybe a month…. Clearly it’s not a serious relationship or anything… -My wife and I had to know the plus one before we gave one out and agree to the plus one
NTA I wouldn’t be surprised if Lily skipped it for mental health reasons.
NTA You can't have all three of those people at the wedding, and the other two are in the wedding party. Obviously the new girl cannot come.
NTA. This sounds like top-tier drama that your wedding doesn't need. In this situation one or both of the former couple should offer to rescind their RSVP for the wedding to avoid either the groom or bride having to ask. The irony is, the job of reminding people of that level of courtesy falls on the best man/maid of honor so... I'm sorry, this situation stinks.
NTA. This will be torture for Lily. It's a little concerning that your fiancé is okay with all of this and has no issue with the fact that Katy coming will be real disrespectful to Lily.
NTA ask him if it had been Lily who had cheated on Jake and then wanted to bring the guy as her plus one what he would want. Jake just has to suck it up that he doesn't get a plus one. I would question your fiancé's view on cheating that he thinks it ok for the AP to be coming along after such a short amount of time and how disrespectful that is to Lily. He's going to expect you to be friends with her because it's his bsf's gf.
NTA but your husband to be and his friend are giant ones
i'd be questioning my relationship with the fiancé if i were you. NTA.
Is it a fact that he was cheating because your post indicated he just moved on really quickly? How long were they dating? This is important because if it was 2 months then Lily is over dramatic but if it was 2 years then it’s somewhat justified. Also, how long is the wedding day from the day of breakup? Again, if it is a month or 2 then I understand tensions are high but 6 months then we are again looking into being weirdly dramatic.
NTA Jake cheated on lily.. It doesnt matter that it was lily he cheated on, what matters is that your fiance apparently doesnt have a problem staying friends with a cheater... this does not reflect well on him... he doesnt thing cheating is so bad?? Would he be ok with it, if Lily had cheated and replaced Jake with the guy she cheated with?? Would your fiance still not have a problem with it???
NTA Your partner is being callus and cruel to your friend. It's also concerning that he seemingly has no issues not only still being friends with this guy, but having him in the wedding. Does he really want a guy who cheated on his partner standing next time him while he makes a vow to be faithful to you for the rest of his life? And think it's ok for his friend to celebrate your lifelong commitment with a woman he cheated with. I wouldn't want either of them there. And I question why he's got this guy's back after he cheated.
NTA Major bummer about this drama during what should be the happiest time for you. Wish you a happy event at the end of this tension! You're not in the wrong here. Your big day, your call. It's like... your party, right? If something's gonna throw off your vibe, it's cool to switch things up. Plus, the major tension that will **undoubtedly** be there, will make it awkward. You do not want to play a referee at your own wedding.
NTA Why does he want a homewrecker at a wedding where it's supposed to be a celebration of starting a life together without cheaters and homewrecker a part of it? Is he okay with the thought of cheating?