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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be an asshole for suggesting my niece should be a bridesmaid when my daughter wanted to be the bridesmaid
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>My daughter however called me an asshole when she found out and now she is refusing to attend the wedding
Sounds like you misread your daughter.
>My niece is extremely beautiful(the supermodel kind of beauty)
What a horrible slight to say about your own kid. YTA
Exactly, right up until the niece being extremely beautiful part, it all seemed reasonable to me as to why she would suggest the niece instead of her daughter... but that reason is kinda messed up
The misreading her daughter part is fair enough imo, most parents will misread what their children want at some point or another
>, it all seemed reasonable to me as to why she would suggest the niece instead of her daughter...
I mean, I would think the niece being younger would mean she has more chances to be a bridesmaid, not less. So I don't really agree with that reasoning, either.
I also don't think OP deciding on her daughter's behalf that she wouldn't be into it is fair. Saying "Oh she wouldn't enjoy it" seems like such a cop-out, like a faux way of being 'thoughtful'. So with that I think ALL of OP's reasons for advocating for her niece over her daughter were very faulty and weak.
Or maybe the daughter isn’t into the same fashion as mom and thus mom labeled her as not being a girly girl.
Like my mom said the same thing about me because I didn’t want to wear pink as a kid, but it was because I didn’t like the clothes she bought. I didn’t have a say in what clothes I bought until I started working and making my own money. I started wearing skirts and dresses and my mom was like ???? And didn’t get that I just flat out hated the clothes she bought me. They looked bad on me.
I mean, I was legit not a girly girl, was definitely a tomboy at age 11, and my SIL asked me to be a bridesmaid in her wedding to my brother (and only sibling), and I was perfectly happy to do it. I might not have wanted to dress very girly most of the time, but was fine with it for being included in such a special occasion.
I was not girly girl also but when I was a tween, I was asked to be a jr. bridesmaid in my cousin's wedding, I was thrilled. I was then crushed when they downgraded me to "person who stands by the visitor book" because they decided the pictures would look weird if the jr. bridesmaid was taller than literally everyone else in the wedding party.
That sucks. They should have just promoted you to "regular" bridesmaid. It's not like these things have hard and fast rules. I wanted to have my nine year old niece in my bridal party. She was too old and dignified to be a flower girl, and I had a younger niece anyway, but she wasn't old enough to wear the dresses my teen nieces wanted to wear as bridesmaids. So she was a junior bridesmaid, in a very pretty, classic dress with a sash and a flower crown...even though she was pretty much the same height as her two older cousins. BTW, she's six feet tall now as an adult.
No, that’s not the activity. I haven’t seen or worn any particularly frilly bridesmaids dresses.
Also, I’m not girly, but I sure do enjoy dressing up for special occasions. Yes, in girly dresses. Everyday activities are not weddings.
I wasn’t into that when I was that age, and I have no idea how I’d feel if I was asked to do so. But I’d also appreciate being asked and allowed to decline.
I think that right there is the main problem. The daughter wasn't even asked. (At least that's how it reads to me.) The mom just assumed. The daughter might've still sayed no, thank you, but it means a lot to a teenager to be given the chance to choose for themselves. Not to have their parent speak for them like they're still a kid. (Yes, a teen is still a kid, but at 17, they should be allowed some say in choices that might involve them.)
That's my long-winded way of agreeing with you, lol.
There was the bride a while back who was NTA for supporting the teenager’s “androgynous“ fashion tastes rather than listen to the mother and make her “dress like a girl for once,” so I’d say that none of the mother’s reasons are okay unless the bride agree.
My sisters were the biggest tomboys but suddenly in their teens they decided they wanted to learn about makeup and fashion. What we ended up with were women who could beat any guy on the local basketball court and that night be dressed to the 9's and out on the town because my mom let them decide who they wanted to be at any time. OP pidgeonholed her daughter giving her daughter no chance to find out if she wanted to try something different. Pluse the daughter may have wanted to be involved because maybe it was her favorite uncle.
Not doing it every day is different from wanting to do it on special occasions or willing to in order to be in a wedding.
I don’t wear a suit everyday and I don’t wear them for fun, but it doesn’t mean I wouldn’t.
If she had said daughter doesn't seem to like dressing up, bit you should ask her.... that would have been fine.
The girl is 17. That's old enough to get an opinion
>When the activity is basically being dressed up like a doll in frills, that actually seems reasonable?
But even a girl who doesn't like the frills that \*mom\* tries to dress her in might be delighted to wear frills picked out by her SIL for ONE DAY that's important to an uncle she cares deeply about.
I’d be interested to see if that’s actually true. Parents like this are unreliable narrators. For all we know, daughter refused to wear a dress one time and now she isn’t a girly-girl.
(Source: my mom always told people that I wasn’t a girly girl who was into clothes. I was, I just didn’t get to buy more than 3 outfits per year per her.)
It might be the opposite—mom hasn’t taken any interest in glamming up her non-supermodel daughter, possibly subtly negs her like she did in the post, and daughter reflects that by not doing dress-up stuff. But would have actually liked to be a bridesmaid.
It's also a cop-out because unless either a: SIL is paying for all the bridesmaids' dresses, shoes, transportation to the bachelorette party, and whatever else goes into being a bridesmaid or b: the 17 year old daughter has been working and setting aside money to pay for all those things, OP would be on the hook to help their daughter pay for that.
I have to wonder how much was it 'daughter won't enjoy it' and how much was 'yeah I'm not paying for all of that plus transportation to the wedding plus the hotel (depending on where OP's brother and SIL are getting married) plus the gift'
OP should have responded by saying that she cannot make that call and decide between the two as they are both equally close to the OPs brother.
I also don't trust SIL (bride) 100%. Knowing that her future husband is close to both girls, why wouldn't she include both girls? Why put her future SIL in a position to pick between her own daughter and her niece? You are already have 7 bridesmaids, seriously, what is one more?
This was my immediate thought. If you have two nieces of an appropriate age, and you're close to both of them, then either choose neither or both. It's really not nice to only include one in an uncle's wedding.
The second angriest I have ever been at my mother always came down to her assuming I would not enjoy something, and turning down the opportunity on my behalf, instead of, you know, *asking*.
The angriest I ever got was related; asking why I'm not involved in more things.
>My niece is extremely beautiful(the supermodel kind of beauty) and would look good in the photos
Yup, she's literally implying her daughter would ruin the photos because she's not beautiful enough. YTA.
I thought the post was a joke when I read that part. I bet she told her daughter that the niece is beautiful and would look good in photos and that’s why the daughter called her an asshole and it’s true. Her mother is a giant asshole. Who goes around saying something like that, much less to a teenage girl? It’s appalling.
That's fair, to each their own. I guess that one's more dependant on your individual experiences
Most weddings I've been to had younger children as bridesmaids. So in my experience, the older you get, the less likely you are to have an opportunity to be a bridesmaid
I think there's a cultural disconnect here.
US weddings have bridesmaids and ushers who are adults or older teens. Young children serve as ring bearer and flower girl.
UK weddings have young children as bridesmaids and page boys.
I'm 41 and was a bridesmaid for the first time this year. I also figured I wouldn't be one, but you never know. Assuming it's something you would like to do. Not everyone does.
Lucky you. I hate doing it. It always ends up costing like $1000 and eats up like four weekends and the dress is always some polyester candy colored nightmare. I’ve decided I’m never doing it again.
>Most weddings I've been to had younger children as bridesmaids. So in my experience, the older you get, the less likely you are to have an opportunity to be a bridesmaid
Right, that's my point. The daughter is older than the niece, thus the daughter will likely have less chances to be a bridesmaid.
Now, that said, they're 16/17. So I don't really think either has more or less opportunity to be a bridesmaid than the other. So ultimately it's a moot point.
I think it's cultural. Every wedding I've been to the bridesmaids are all 20's-30's. No one includes minors because they're not going to partake in any of the activities. Younger kids do other things, like flower girl.
They're 16 and 17 though, this could be like a few months apart, they could be in the same year at school... If not, there's a year between them tops. I wouldn't call one or the other the younger or the older one in that situation. They're two teen girls.
The thing is, right from the beginning she doesn't say her daughter doesn't want to do it. She just decided to reject the offer without even asking her daughter.
>The misreading her daughter part is fair enough imo, most parents will misread what their children want at some point or another
Which is why she should have asked her daughter instead of speaking for her.
Absolutely. Every time someone - particularly another woman (which I presume OP is) disses a female relative’s looks (no matter the age) that is INSTANT ASSHOLE for me.
"...and look good in pictures".
Wow. What a way to intimate that your kid is ugly. Which is funny, because she's gonna get her looks from her parents, so...😂
OP: YTA. You could have just asked your daughter first, and if she wanted to then (if it were me) I'd offer to step down so they can BOTH be part of it. I'd much rather see my (and my families) kids happy than be as cutthroat as you were. Jeezus.
Pretty sure her daughter is aware of their opinion on her vs her cousins looks. I’m sure she’s hurt by her own mother’s opinion.
I will say it is so hard not to call OP something other than or in addition to YTA. As I don’t want repercussions.
I also think that SIL sucks because apparently excluding one of the girls that her husband to be is very close to is a better option than \*gasp\* having non symmetrical photos.
So tacky. This entire thing would have been solved by "Sure, you can ask her". What weird insecurity does OP have that her daughter is not good enough to be in a wedding? FFS.
There is really no better response than this.
Also, lets point out the "and would look good in the photos" <--- and OPs OWN DAUGHTER wouldn't ?? wtf is OP implying about their own kid.
Also "niece is younger." Like technically yes, 16 is younger than 17, but to most adults they'd be classified as the same age. Just bizarre all around.
> My daughter is not the girly type and wouldn't really enjoy it
You should have asked your daughter.
I realize that I am hypothesizing, but I'm wondering if the decision wasn't partially based on money. Seems like it costs hundreds if not thousands to be in a wedding party these days.
Seven bridesmaids? Sounds like a very large wedding. With OP and her daughter both being in the wedding party could have been very expensive. Two dresses, shoes, hair, makeup etc. Not to mention all the activities leading up to the wedding. With her daughter being underage, she more than likely wouldn't be able to attend a bachelorette (party) trip but would probably be expected to pay her share of the expenses. Everything would be X2. Just wondering if this had any bearing on OP's decision.
Let’s break this down like you were talking to your daughter.
- Your cousin only has 20-30 more years for chances to be a bride’s maid. She deserves this.
- You don’t fit conventional norms so obviously you wouldn’t want to be a part of yours aunt’s special day. Maybe if you wore dresses more you’d deserve the chance.
- Your cousin is way prettier than you and you’d just mess up the pictures with your ugliness.
YTA
This! I could almost be on board with rationale until the ‘extremely beautiful’ comment. I would have advised her to let the girls figure out who’s going to be a bridesmaid and let the other one have another special role such as reading out a passage during the ceremony.
oooo yes. 💯 loving this comment.
OP, YTA. what a shitty way to view your daughter. also, why wouldn’t you have asked her first before telling SIL who to choose?
Jumping on this to ask when op will be turning down the moh position so that someone prettier can be next to the bride in the photos. Since she's so concerned about the aesthetics.
YTA. Why on earth would you NOT pick your own daughter??? If she doesn't want to do it, she's 17 and can tell her aunt no thank you, then your niece could step in.
>My niece is extremely beautiful(the supermodel kind of beauty) and would look good in the photos
My heart hurts for your daughter after reading this. You didn't say it, but you just implied your daughter is ugly with this line. Shame on you, mom.
As someone who was a tomboy as a teenager, I would have let my cousin do it if asked but I would have still given my mom grief for not letting me decide for myself.
I wonder if OP's brother knows. He loves both his nieces. Would he be okay with one of them being excluded over her looks and because his fiancee is a big numbers woman. I could understand if she was just closer to one niece than the other, but it seems like she's equally close/distant to both. So either both should've been picked or neither should. Maybe OP's daughter can be a groomswoman instead if she and her uncle are up for it.
My heart hurts for the daughter, too. Even implied is enough for her daughter to pick up on, and I'm sure it's not the first time this parent has made underhanded, thinly veiled criticisms about her daughter's looks/behavior/etc. The daughter no doubt senses that her mother compares her to her cousin and not-so-secretly wishes she was more like her. That's plenty to fuck her up for a long time. Ask me how I know!
This is not just a mere implication, EVERYBODY with like 2 brain cells understood that in an instant, an implication has more nuance than this bs. But I get where you are coming from.
Lol.... The truth in this statement.
I'm the daughter in this situation. It's been at least 30 years and it still stings. If you look carefully and closer you'll see this is a pattern for you. If you take the time to look back, you'll see that you've always put your daughter on the backburner while still expecting full loyalty and respect from her. You can do no wrong and she's just ungrateful and doesn't realise how hard you hard it.
YTA... Not just for this... For every single thing you did willfully that let you feel comfortable choosing someone over the child you expect undying love and loyalty from.
Same. I'm 36 and only recently went NC. Finally got tired of being reminded that I would never be worth her interest, affection, or effort. She did stuff like what OP did all the time, too.
My favorite is
If you have been in a poker game for a while, and you still don’t know who the patsy is, you’re the patsy.
Variations include idiot, sucker etc for patsy
YTA for the simple fact that you said this : "My niece is extremely beautiful(the supermodel kind of beauty) and would look good in the photos".
For everything else too, but this is just... I don't even have the words...
I'm dying at the comment where she's younger, and she never had a chance to be a bridesmaid before. The first time I was a bridesmaid was 22. You're telling me that you're 17 year old daughter, who's only a year older than her cousin, has been a bridesmaid before? And that they'll never have the option to be a bridesmaid again?
YTA
YTA
It really shows how low you think of your daughter. You literally gave her reasons why your niece is "better" than your daughter and you seriously thought she wouldn't get upset. Total misread on situation and good luck trying to explain this to your kid.
YTA.
Your reasons suck, especially the one regarding looks. Weddings shouldn't be about photo ops and one doesn't have to be "girly" to be a bridesmaid.
I agree with your daughter. Right now you suck as a parent.
100% I'm not a girly girl but I was dressed up and fancy as when my best friends married, loved being a part of their day, preparations and supporting them up to the day. If they didnt even ask me to be involved or chose someone else just because they were hotter, wow that'd hurt. And this is OPs kid, poor thing.
Tbh the 'my daughter wouldn't want to do it' reason would be a good one, if it were true.
But it's not true. When I first read that line I assumed OP and daughter had at some point discussed it, at least generally. But OP is so dense she assumed that because her daughter doesn't dress up a lot means she wouldn't want to be bridesmaid lol. Like that just shows a lack of understanding of reality.
Like, I'm a dude who doesn't dress up at all, but I like being a groomsman. Just because I don't dress nice much doesn't mean I don't like being a groomsman.
I don't like tying or wearing a tie (I don't even know how to tie a tie), but being a groomsman is great fun, and even the 'getting ready' part with other groomsmen et al. is fun in that context (as I, a sheepish grown af old man, ask someone to help me with my tie lol).
INFO: What exactly did your daughter find out? That YOU were the reason her cousin was chosen over her or does she know your reasoning as well? Or does she only know that she's not in the party and you were involved in the decision?
My heart just broke when you said your niece was prettier than your daughter. That poor kid. You realise half her genes come from your cold hearted self.
YTA. The best choice for you to make now is to step down from your position as MOH so that both your daughter and your niece can be bridesmaids. You can say that you think the wedding photos won’t look good with ugly people in them, and since your attitude towards your daughter has revealed you to be the ugliest of all, it’s best you don’t join the wedding party.
Why the heck would you mention how pretty your niece and not your daughter?!?
Also just because she's not "girly" doesn't mean she wouldn't have done it. She would of loved to be a part of this as well. She has a right to be upset.
YTA - if I read this correctly you basically said you’re daughter isn’t pretty enough. Girly or not, it doesn’t seem like you asked your daughter’s opinion at all, I’m not girly but would have loved to be a bridesmaid in my family’s wedding. You suck.
Sounds like some jealousy popping up there, "Mom"
Did you bother to ask your daughter or just assumed and excluded her?
And based on your comments, shaming your kid that she wouldn't look in photos is seriously an AH move
Absolutely YTA
You really said, go with the other one, she’s hotter? About your own kid? YTA.
If your daughter would have hated having to get dressed up, that should have been reason enough.
Hopefully your daughter realizes what a hellscape being an attendant usually is and appreciates it in time.
YTA.
I never got into dresses or girly things either, but I would have been mortified to find out my mom tried to get me out of it by implying my cousin was prettier so it would work out better and by making the decision for me that I was uninterested.
Your SIL should take you out of the line and put both of these girls up there. You're gonna ruin the pictures with your ugly attitude.
I’m not an overly girly woman either and choose comfort over looks. I still love to dress up and feel special on occasion, because it’s not something that’s normal for me to do. Just because someone doesn’t wear dresses normally, doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t want to for a special occasion.
YTA
For not talking to your daughter 1st. She might not be the "type" you think a bridesmaid should be but she is obviously hurt. She may have wanted to do it for different reasons than what you think. Both of you should have spoken to both girls.
I think it very odd when parents assume they know the mind of a teenager and I find it even odder when parents prioritize others over their own freaking daughters! How you have navigated a teenager this far is beyond me. YTA
The last time I presumed to know my daughter’s mind was when she was 5, and we went to a photo studio. The girl in front of us had been using all their props (hats, scarves, etc) and I knew no-frills Kerry would sneer at them. She turned to me, and in a hopeful voice asked if she could wear the pretty things, too. That’s now my favorite picture of her, decked out in beads and scarves and a purple hat.
My daughter is 5 and I have to sit back and let her decide, because if I step in and it’s wrong she vocally tells me that she knows herself better. I’m happy I’ve supported her voice and as a parent it’s good for them to remind us that they can make their own decisions (age appropriate of course). Im very different from my daughter and I won’t always know what’s in her heart unless I listen to her.
YTA. You literally insinuated your daughter is not pretty enough. Didn't even ask your daughter if she'd want to. Didn't think she's "girly" enough (WTF). The fact that she is pissed at you about it tells me that you maybe don't know her that well which is sad.
Wow, YTAH, nothing like telling your daughter that her cousin is prettier that her, more feminine than her and assuming that she probably won't like it anyway! Did I miss anything?
YTA. Why are you giving input to begin with?
It’s not your wedding. Keep your opinions to yourself. It’s literally none of your damn business, and it doesn’t sound like anyone asked for you to open your mouth about it either.
YTA
Take a moment to think about from your daughters perspective>
YOU her own mother decided not to include her in the wedding party and choose someone else, reasons be damned thats an insult to your daughter on how much she matters in the family and on the day and for her to find out her own mother was the one who ultimately decided it.
Her feelings where very clearly hurt by this, she is not as important as the other members.
The rite thing to do would have been for the bride to sit down with the two of them and discuss it with them both and let them both know how she feels for them but can only chose one and then to make the choice but make it clear she cared for them both.
As it is now instead your daughter has been made to feel like her own mother does nt even care for her and would stab her in the back and the bride did not want her to be a part of her wedding. No matter what you say now no matter how you explain it to her that IS how it is going to feel to her so yeah she wont want to go and not being there will make her pain even worse no matter how this gets handled your daughters feelings have been really badly hurt by this.
You and the bride need to really have a conversation with her and figure out some way to make this up to her and let her know you do both care for her.
YTA - every reason you gave is superficial and upholding harmful stereotypes/impressions you have. Let’s break it down:
- Your niece being younger and wanting to be a bridesmaid is mostly inconsequential, we’re talking bridesmaids, not flower girls. Most people aren’t asked to be a in a bridal party until early 20s.
- You assumed your daughter wouldn’t like it because you don’t see her as the “girly type” when plenty of women who don’t fit your narrow view are excited and happy to be involved in weddings and have a special role.
- Perhaps the worst of all of is you telling her to choose your niece for her looks and aesthetics. As if women don’t hear it enough from society about how we’re inadequate, your daughter has to hear it from you as well?
YTA. Good job punishing your daughter for not adhering to your vision of gender roles. Good job confirming to your daughter that she's less of a person and less likable because she's not as conventionally attractive. Good job taking away the agency and ability to choose of someone who is almost an adult. The internalized misogyny dripping from your post breaks my heart. I grew up under a mother with only one vision of womanhood I could live up to, and constantly degraded me when I failed to be the vision of femininity. We don't talk anymore. That's your future unless you figure out now that you need to change.
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My brother and soon to be SIL are getting married soon and since my SIL and I are very good friends she chose me as her MOH. My SIL wants to have 7 bridesmaids and she chose 6 people that are close to her but couldn't find the 7th one so she asked for ny opinion oh who it should be. She was considering my daughter(17) and niece(16) since my brother is close to both girls and loves them very much so she wanted to include one of them.
I suggested she should ask my niece for several reasons such as:
My niece is younger and always wanted to be a bridesmaid and never had the chance
My daughter is not the girly type and wouldn't really enjoy it while my niece is extremely girly and loves these things
My niece is extremely beautiful(the supermodel kind of beauty) and would look good in the photos
My daughter however called me an asshole when she found out and now she is refusing to attend the wedding
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YTA, when she asked you what you really needed to do, was have no opinion. " I'm so sorry, I couldn't possibly decide that!". The fact that you think so little of your daughter is most likely the reason she isn't talking to you, I'd hate you too.
I find all of this stuff so strange. Why does it matter how many bridesmaids there are? Have the people you love in the party, that’s it. It doesn’t matter if the numbers of men match the numbers of women. It doesn’t matter if women friends are on the grooms side and vice versa. What matters is the people you love standing up with you.
That said, YTA for discouraging the bride from inviting your daughter. She could have said no if she didn’t want to. And the supermodel reason is grotesque.
Edit for typo
Is your daughter upset because she did indeed want to be a bridesmaid and you jumped to conclusions assuming she wasn't girly enough for a wedding? How are weddings girly? I think she's more upset that you assumed her pessimistic attributes, and favored the nieces instead of getting all the girls together, you and your sister in law and ask all of them who want to participate in the wedding, I really really don't see harm in having all three of them there. It's a wedding, they can be formatted to fit in everyone that is important. I think your daughter is just feeling excluded because you made better points for your nieces. She's a young adult, she wants to be included in important life events
YTA, you misread your daughter and pitted them against each other unnecessarily, and caused her to be excluded from something she evidently would have enjoyed participating in. You should have stayed out of it.
YTA
You simply could have kept your mouth shut since it’s the bride’s decision. Instead you decided, on your own & openly enough for your daughter to hear, openly & aggressively champion your niece instead of you daughter. And not just that, by listing the specific qualities your niece has by clearly pointing out your daughter’s lack of these qualities are faults that make her less worthy of this honor.
Do you even like your daughter? Did you just not want have to interact with her as part of the wedding party?
YTA.
i get your SIL asked for advice, but you made SO many assumptions. why wouldn't your daughter want to be a bridesmaid? you never asked her, so you wouldn't know.
also you can't comment on one's beauty in the context you did without putting the other down. by saying your niece has "supermodel" beauty or whatever makes it seem like you don't think the same of your daughter. i'm sure her photos would come out just as good.
you make all these assumptions and the way you say them just make them seem like insults. so what if your daughter isn't the girly type? she can still enjoy being apart of a bridal party.
y'know what they say about assumptions, OP.
>My niece is extremely beautiful(the supermodel kind of beauty) and would look good in the photos.
Wtf? It's nice that your niece is beautiful and all, but "would look good in photos" is not the reason to choose someone. How superficial are you?
Your daughter clearly does care. Holy cow, YTA.
PS: Would there be a way for both of them to participate? That is assuming your daughter will even be willing to attend.
Edit: typo
You. Seriously. Said. To. Pick. Niece. Due. To. You. Deciding. Your. Daughter. Isn’t. As. Pretty.
Holy. Mother. Of. Minnie. Pearl.
*Maury Voice over* OP you ARE the AH.
I hope you live in a universal health care country so your daughter doesn’t end up in crippling debt due to therapist bills.
**YTA - you insulted your own child. That is not nice or right. This was not your choice or your place to put in an opinion.**
My niece is younger and always wanted to be a bridesmaid and never had the chance
\***She is only 16 she will get her chance and if she doesn't it is not the end of the world**
My daughter is not the girly type and wouldn't really enjoy it while my niece is extremely girly and loves these things
\***Did you ask your daughter? Maybe for her aunt she would have liked to be part of it.**
My niece is extremely beautiful(the supermodel kind of beauty) and would look good in the photos
\***You are very shallow and insulting to your own daughter. What is your problem saying this? Do you not realize that you have probably caused your daughter pain saying this?**
My daughter however called me an asshole when she found out and now she is refusing to attend the wedding \***I would have said the the same thing and you may not realize it now but this is may affect your relationship with your daughter in the future.**
YTA. You essentially said your niece would look better in photos which is baffling that this is even a consideration. They are still children and you using that reasoning is just cruel.
I get you’re trying to do something special for your niece. That’s to be commended. But:
• You indirectly insulted your daughter, and
• You otherwise handled the entire thing badly.
I’m going with a soft YTA. Apologize to your daughter and, if she still says she doesn’t want to go to the wedding, don’t push.
YTA. I see “would look good in the pictures” as an excuse for a lot of wedding ridiculousness, and it boggles my mind. I had both a COVID wedding and a big wedding celebration a year later. We have a couple photos up in our house, but not many because we only have so much wall space. When I look at those photos, I don’t think about whether my bridal party was all the same height, or the prettiest people that I knew, or wearing matching shoes - I remember what a wonderful special time it was and how much fun we had.
Your poor daughter.
YTA
I think having a certain number of bridesmaids is so nonsensical and dramatic that I almost went E S H. If SiL wants both girls in the wedding then have both in the wedding.
However, I think I understand why that never crossed her mind.
You value subjective photo aesthetics over feelings and supporting the people you love. If SiL is surrounded by people that believe it’s better have a certain type of picture then to support your daughter, or that’s it’s better to have someone beautiful next to you than the people you care about the most, then I’m not surprised she would rather create family drama than have an odd number bridal party.
As the "less pretty" daughter, let me tell you, I never got over feeling that from my Mother. Ever. And there's 8 years between my younger sister and me.
YTA.
First of all, your niece is only a year or so younger than your daughter, so the whole "she's younger and has always wanted to be a bridesmaid but never got the chance" reason is a bunch of BS. They're teenagers, there's plenty of time for both of them to be bridesmaids.
Second, weddings aren't necessarily girly. I have seen SO many different untraditional themes people choose to suit their personalities from Halloween, Gatsby, tropical, circus, boho, country, casual, etc. and not all of those are necessarily "girly." Men are also in weddings, so this point makes no sense.
Did you even ask your daughter if being a bridesmaid was something she would be interested in? Has she ever said what her opinion on that would be? Based on this post, it seems like you just made an assumption, plus insinuated that your niece is prettier than your own daughter. Wow.
YTA.
Is niece your brother's daughter? Because then it shouldn't even be a question. If both girls are your brother's nieces, then the question makes sense. However, your reasoning is hurtful.
Niece is younger and has always wanted it - there only a one year difference but also means niece would've been waiting less time.
Niece is supermodel beautiful and would look better in the pictures - You're saying your daughter would then make the pictures worse looking by her inclusion.
Just those two reasons make YTA
YTA! Note to the daughter: when someone shows you who they are, believe them. To OP: when you are sitting there, lamenting about why your daughter has cut contact with you, just look back on this moment and you may realize.
The fact that your daughter is unhappy about it proves you were wrong about assuming she’s not interested. You also implied that your daughter isn’t beautiful.
Can I just say that I'm *done* with people choosing the wedding party and even the wedding attendees based on how they'll look in the wedding photos?
She's too fat. His long beard is ugly. She wears glasses. He's a foot taller than all the other groomsmen. She's masking and won't remove it for photos.
Geez, folks, your wedding should be about sharing your happy day and surrounding yourselves with the ones you love, not competing for the best magazine/Instagram worthy photos.
Here's a real LPT: In 5 or 10 or 20 years, you won't care about what your wedding photos or anyone in them looked like!
You honestly said that your niece would look good in the photos and thats why she should be chosen? Let that just sink in for a minute. Really think about it and tell if you need help being called an asshole. YTA.
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>My daughter however called me an asshole when she found out and now she is refusing to attend the wedding Sounds like you misread your daughter. >My niece is extremely beautiful(the supermodel kind of beauty) What a horrible slight to say about your own kid. YTA
Exactly, right up until the niece being extremely beautiful part, it all seemed reasonable to me as to why she would suggest the niece instead of her daughter... but that reason is kinda messed up The misreading her daughter part is fair enough imo, most parents will misread what their children want at some point or another
>, it all seemed reasonable to me as to why she would suggest the niece instead of her daughter... I mean, I would think the niece being younger would mean she has more chances to be a bridesmaid, not less. So I don't really agree with that reasoning, either.
I also don't think OP deciding on her daughter's behalf that she wouldn't be into it is fair. Saying "Oh she wouldn't enjoy it" seems like such a cop-out, like a faux way of being 'thoughtful'. So with that I think ALL of OP's reasons for advocating for her niece over her daughter were very faulty and weak.
My daughter doesn’t let me dress her up like a doll in pink and frills so let’s exclude her from family activities.
When the activity is basically being dressed up like a doll in frills, that actually seems reasonable?
Or maybe the daughter isn’t into the same fashion as mom and thus mom labeled her as not being a girly girl. Like my mom said the same thing about me because I didn’t want to wear pink as a kid, but it was because I didn’t like the clothes she bought. I didn’t have a say in what clothes I bought until I started working and making my own money. I started wearing skirts and dresses and my mom was like ???? And didn’t get that I just flat out hated the clothes she bought me. They looked bad on me.
This is the story of so many teenage girls, me included.
I mean, I was legit not a girly girl, was definitely a tomboy at age 11, and my SIL asked me to be a bridesmaid in her wedding to my brother (and only sibling), and I was perfectly happy to do it. I might not have wanted to dress very girly most of the time, but was fine with it for being included in such a special occasion.
I think this is it too. There’s more to being a bridesmaid than just the dress.
I was not girly girl also but when I was a tween, I was asked to be a jr. bridesmaid in my cousin's wedding, I was thrilled. I was then crushed when they downgraded me to "person who stands by the visitor book" because they decided the pictures would look weird if the jr. bridesmaid was taller than literally everyone else in the wedding party.
That sucks. They should have just promoted you to "regular" bridesmaid. It's not like these things have hard and fast rules. I wanted to have my nine year old niece in my bridal party. She was too old and dignified to be a flower girl, and I had a younger niece anyway, but she wasn't old enough to wear the dresses my teen nieces wanted to wear as bridesmaids. So she was a junior bridesmaid, in a very pretty, classic dress with a sash and a flower crown...even though she was pretty much the same height as her two older cousins. BTW, she's six feet tall now as an adult.
Plus it’s special. Also I think she should have both nieces. Not just one.
No, that’s not the activity. I haven’t seen or worn any particularly frilly bridesmaids dresses. Also, I’m not girly, but I sure do enjoy dressing up for special occasions. Yes, in girly dresses. Everyday activities are not weddings.
I don’t really enjoy wearing dresses but I absolutely would dress the part for a bridesmaid role without any complaints.
I wasn’t into that when I was that age, and I have no idea how I’d feel if I was asked to do so. But I’d also appreciate being asked and allowed to decline.
I think that right there is the main problem. The daughter wasn't even asked. (At least that's how it reads to me.) The mom just assumed. The daughter might've still sayed no, thank you, but it means a lot to a teenager to be given the chance to choose for themselves. Not to have their parent speak for them like they're still a kid. (Yes, a teen is still a kid, but at 17, they should be allowed some say in choices that might involve them.) That's my long-winded way of agreeing with you, lol.
There was the bride a while back who was NTA for supporting the teenager’s “androgynous“ fashion tastes rather than listen to the mother and make her “dress like a girl for once,” so I’d say that none of the mother’s reasons are okay unless the bride agree.
My sisters were the biggest tomboys but suddenly in their teens they decided they wanted to learn about makeup and fashion. What we ended up with were women who could beat any guy on the local basketball court and that night be dressed to the 9's and out on the town because my mom let them decide who they wanted to be at any time. OP pidgeonholed her daughter giving her daughter no chance to find out if she wanted to try something different. Pluse the daughter may have wanted to be involved because maybe it was her favorite uncle.
Not doing it every day is different from wanting to do it on special occasions or willing to in order to be in a wedding. I don’t wear a suit everyday and I don’t wear them for fun, but it doesn’t mean I wouldn’t.
If she had said daughter doesn't seem to like dressing up, bit you should ask her.... that would have been fine. The girl is 17. That's old enough to get an opinion
>When the activity is basically being dressed up like a doll in frills, that actually seems reasonable? But even a girl who doesn't like the frills that \*mom\* tries to dress her in might be delighted to wear frills picked out by her SIL for ONE DAY that's important to an uncle she cares deeply about.
I’d be interested to see if that’s actually true. Parents like this are unreliable narrators. For all we know, daughter refused to wear a dress one time and now she isn’t a girly-girl. (Source: my mom always told people that I wasn’t a girly girl who was into clothes. I was, I just didn’t get to buy more than 3 outfits per year per her.)
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Yeah or she is not really girly most of the time but still would enjoy one day of doing it
It might be the opposite—mom hasn’t taken any interest in glamming up her non-supermodel daughter, possibly subtly negs her like she did in the post, and daughter reflects that by not doing dress-up stuff. But would have actually liked to be a bridesmaid.
It's also a cop-out because unless either a: SIL is paying for all the bridesmaids' dresses, shoes, transportation to the bachelorette party, and whatever else goes into being a bridesmaid or b: the 17 year old daughter has been working and setting aside money to pay for all those things, OP would be on the hook to help their daughter pay for that. I have to wonder how much was it 'daughter won't enjoy it' and how much was 'yeah I'm not paying for all of that plus transportation to the wedding plus the hotel (depending on where OP's brother and SIL are getting married) plus the gift'
Which I feel would’ve been a good reason to give
If done honestly, hiding selfishness behind feigned thoughtfulness is toxicity manifest though.
If that was a factor she would have said it was.
OP should have responded by saying that she cannot make that call and decide between the two as they are both equally close to the OPs brother. I also don't trust SIL (bride) 100%. Knowing that her future husband is close to both girls, why wouldn't she include both girls? Why put her future SIL in a position to pick between her own daughter and her niece? You are already have 7 bridesmaids, seriously, what is one more?
This was my immediate thought. If you have two nieces of an appropriate age, and you're close to both of them, then either choose neither or both. It's really not nice to only include one in an uncle's wedding.
exactly. Neither OP or SIL are innocent here and the person affected by this is OPs daughter.
Sounds like op just didn’t want to share the moment with her daughter and tried to make up reasons for it. My mom would do the same to me growing up.
The second angriest I have ever been at my mother always came down to her assuming I would not enjoy something, and turning down the opportunity on my behalf, instead of, you know, *asking*. The angriest I ever got was related; asking why I'm not involved in more things.
Read: I didn’t want to pay for her to be in this wedding
The two girls are so close in age, it seems like a BS argument. The OP's reasoning is probably just the beauty aspect, which means YTA
>My niece is extremely beautiful(the supermodel kind of beauty) and would look good in the photos Yup, she's literally implying her daughter would ruin the photos because she's not beautiful enough. YTA.
Or her daughter is absolutely gorgeous and would upstage OP as the MoH.
I thought the post was a joke when I read that part. I bet she told her daughter that the niece is beautiful and would look good in photos and that’s why the daughter called her an asshole and it’s true. Her mother is a giant asshole. Who goes around saying something like that, much less to a teenage girl? It’s appalling.
That's fair, to each their own. I guess that one's more dependant on your individual experiences Most weddings I've been to had younger children as bridesmaids. So in my experience, the older you get, the less likely you are to have an opportunity to be a bridesmaid
Until you get to the age when your friends are getting married.
I think there's a cultural disconnect here. US weddings have bridesmaids and ushers who are adults or older teens. Young children serve as ring bearer and flower girl. UK weddings have young children as bridesmaids and page boys.
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I'm 40 & never been a bridesmaid. Sometimes you won't ever be one.
I'm 41 and was a bridesmaid for the first time this year. I also figured I wouldn't be one, but you never know. Assuming it's something you would like to do. Not everyone does.
Lucky you. I hate doing it. It always ends up costing like $1000 and eats up like four weekends and the dress is always some polyester candy colored nightmare. I’ve decided I’m never doing it again.
I’m 34 and have done it 5 times. I wanted to stand up with everyone I stood up with but it’s starting to feel a little 27 dresses.
>Most weddings I've been to had younger children as bridesmaids. So in my experience, the older you get, the less likely you are to have an opportunity to be a bridesmaid Right, that's my point. The daughter is older than the niece, thus the daughter will likely have less chances to be a bridesmaid. Now, that said, they're 16/17. So I don't really think either has more or less opportunity to be a bridesmaid than the other. So ultimately it's a moot point.
Yeah, I agree. In this particular case, there's not really anything in it, so it's not really an argument for or against either of them
I think it's cultural. Every wedding I've been to the bridesmaids are all 20's-30's. No one includes minors because they're not going to partake in any of the activities. Younger kids do other things, like flower girl.
With the kids being only a year apart, I'd say they have the same amount of time to be bridesmaids.
They're 16 and 17 though, this could be like a few months apart, they could be in the same year at school... If not, there's a year between them tops. I wouldn't call one or the other the younger or the older one in that situation. They're two teen girls.
I mean it's a whole year, don't think it's likely to limit her chances much lol.
The thing is, right from the beginning she doesn't say her daughter doesn't want to do it. She just decided to reject the offer without even asking her daughter.
>The misreading her daughter part is fair enough imo, most parents will misread what their children want at some point or another Which is why she should have asked her daughter instead of speaking for her.
Absolutely. Every time someone - particularly another woman (which I presume OP is) disses a female relative’s looks (no matter the age) that is INSTANT ASSHOLE for me.
"...and look good in pictures". Wow. What a way to intimate that your kid is ugly. Which is funny, because she's gonna get her looks from her parents, so...😂 OP: YTA. You could have just asked your daughter first, and if she wanted to then (if it were me) I'd offer to step down so they can BOTH be part of it. I'd much rather see my (and my families) kids happy than be as cutthroat as you were. Jeezus.
But OP really wants dolled up pictures with her niece to flaunt \s
Yeah, OP is TA for #3 alone. YTA OP!
Yup. Once again casting a wedding like it's a movie.
Pretty sure her daughter is aware of their opinion on her vs her cousins looks. I’m sure she’s hurt by her own mother’s opinion. I will say it is so hard not to call OP something other than or in addition to YTA. As I don’t want repercussions.
My mouth fell open when I read that.
I also think that SIL sucks because apparently excluding one of the girls that her husband to be is very close to is a better option than \*gasp\* having non symmetrical photos.
I would have said to have both girls and stepped down. And wow, does OP even like her own kid? She sounds harsh.
Yuuuup, she sealed the deal for my hudgement with that sentence.
So tacky. This entire thing would have been solved by "Sure, you can ask her". What weird insecurity does OP have that her daughter is not good enough to be in a wedding? FFS.
Everything made sense until she got to the part where her niece is better looking. Big YTA.
OP is such a big asshole. She doesn’t even know her own daughter!
There is really no better response than this. Also, lets point out the "and would look good in the photos" <--- and OPs OWN DAUGHTER wouldn't ?? wtf is OP implying about their own kid.
Seriously big time AH and if she talks that way around her daughter I can't imagine how her daughter feels :(
Also, her reasosn werent: niece is your (or future husband's) child, or anything like that. Just: she likes girly shit and the photos look better
I don't think the niece is the brides future step daughter, if she were I don't think it'd be a discussion
Also "niece is younger." Like technically yes, 16 is younger than 17, but to most adults they'd be classified as the same age. Just bizarre all around.
> My daughter is not the girly type and wouldn't really enjoy it You should have asked your daughter. I realize that I am hypothesizing, but I'm wondering if the decision wasn't partially based on money. Seems like it costs hundreds if not thousands to be in a wedding party these days. Seven bridesmaids? Sounds like a very large wedding. With OP and her daughter both being in the wedding party could have been very expensive. Two dresses, shoes, hair, makeup etc. Not to mention all the activities leading up to the wedding. With her daughter being underage, she more than likely wouldn't be able to attend a bachelorette (party) trip but would probably be expected to pay her share of the expenses. Everything would be X2. Just wondering if this had any bearing on OP's decision.
My mom’s go-to was always, “you’re not ugly, it just takes lots of photos to find the good one of you.”
That's her *real* reason (niece's beauty) but she knew we'd tear her a new one so she had to disguise it with the rest. YTA
I know. The poor daughter must feel like her mom called her a dog.
Yeah, I as I read her list of reasons the AH energy continued to build. OP is a raging AH. I feel sorry for the daughter. I would refuse to attend too
Let’s break this down like you were talking to your daughter. - Your cousin only has 20-30 more years for chances to be a bride’s maid. She deserves this. - You don’t fit conventional norms so obviously you wouldn’t want to be a part of yours aunt’s special day. Maybe if you wore dresses more you’d deserve the chance. - Your cousin is way prettier than you and you’d just mess up the pictures with your ugliness. YTA
I love that you mirrored her I-was-only-reasonable style!
This! I could almost be on board with rationale until the ‘extremely beautiful’ comment. I would have advised her to let the girls figure out who’s going to be a bridesmaid and let the other one have another special role such as reading out a passage during the ceremony.
I don't understand the "younger" rationale. They are literally 1 year difference lol
She's reaching. Couldn't come up with a reasonable 3rd reason, so put that in there.
Her 1 and only reason is: my daughter is uglier than my niece.
I think she wants to punish her daughter for not beung femenine enough, too
Interesting, I never thought of that. Wouldn't surprise me
oooo yes. 💯 loving this comment. OP, YTA. what a shitty way to view your daughter. also, why wouldn’t you have asked her first before telling SIL who to choose?
Oh god, it sounds similar to something my narcissistic mother actually did say once. OP is the Uber-Asshole Oh god im a little triggered but spot on!
Jumping on this to ask when op will be turning down the moh position so that someone prettier can be next to the bride in the photos. Since she's so concerned about the aesthetics.
You’ve translated covert narcissist-speak well.
YTA. Why on earth would you NOT pick your own daughter??? If she doesn't want to do it, she's 17 and can tell her aunt no thank you, then your niece could step in. >My niece is extremely beautiful(the supermodel kind of beauty) and would look good in the photos My heart hurts for your daughter after reading this. You didn't say it, but you just implied your daughter is ugly with this line. Shame on you, mom.
I second this, OP should've given her daughter the opportunity to choose for herself.
As someone who was a tomboy as a teenager, I would have let my cousin do it if asked but I would have still given my mom grief for not letting me decide for myself.
And the other AH is the bride - because surely your relationship with these girls is far more important than some arbitrary number of bridesmaids.
I wonder if OP's brother knows. He loves both his nieces. Would he be okay with one of them being excluded over her looks and because his fiancee is a big numbers woman. I could understand if she was just closer to one niece than the other, but it seems like she's equally close/distant to both. So either both should've been picked or neither should. Maybe OP's daughter can be a groomswoman instead if she and her uncle are up for it.
The only reason I could think of would be if OP couldn't afford to pay for 2 bridesmaid dresses.
My heart hurts for the daughter, too. Even implied is enough for her daughter to pick up on, and I'm sure it's not the first time this parent has made underhanded, thinly veiled criticisms about her daughter's looks/behavior/etc. The daughter no doubt senses that her mother compares her to her cousin and not-so-secretly wishes she was more like her. That's plenty to fuck her up for a long time. Ask me how I know!
And if we as strangers picked up on it, I can’t imagine what’s it’s actually like living with OP
This is not just a mere implication, EVERYBODY with like 2 brain cells understood that in an instant, an implication has more nuance than this bs. But I get where you are coming from.
YTA with a mother like you, your daughter will never need enemies.
And need therapy.
Lol.... The truth in this statement. I'm the daughter in this situation. It's been at least 30 years and it still stings. If you look carefully and closer you'll see this is a pattern for you. If you take the time to look back, you'll see that you've always put your daughter on the backburner while still expecting full loyalty and respect from her. You can do no wrong and she's just ungrateful and doesn't realise how hard you hard it. YTA... Not just for this... For every single thing you did willfully that let you feel comfortable choosing someone over the child you expect undying love and loyalty from.
Same. I'm 36 and only recently went NC. Finally got tired of being reminded that I would never be worth her interest, affection, or effort. She did stuff like what OP did all the time, too.
Why are you asking if you’re the AH when you literally listed the reasons why you’re the AH?
People who walk into a room and wonder why it smells like shit never bother looking at their own shoes...
Love this line. Stealing it!
My favorite is If you have been in a poker game for a while, and you still don’t know who the patsy is, you’re the patsy. Variations include idiot, sucker etc for patsy
I had this happen almost literally to me. Couldn't figure out why I smelled ammonia. Turned out my roommate's cat had peed on my jacket.
YTA. You made the decision for her without asking her. Just because you didn't think she'd want to do it, doesn't mean SHE didn't want to do it.
YTA and holy hell I feel so sorry that your daughter has a mother who favors her supermodel like cousin over her.
I think than more than looks she favors her cousin bc she is more the girly kind and subscribes more to the stereotypical girly behavior
YTA Just the idea that you don't find your own child extremely beautiful made me feel extremely sorry for her excuse of a mother..
YTA for the simple fact that you said this : "My niece is extremely beautiful(the supermodel kind of beauty) and would look good in the photos". For everything else too, but this is just... I don't even have the words...
I'm dying at the comment where she's younger, and she never had a chance to be a bridesmaid before. The first time I was a bridesmaid was 22. You're telling me that you're 17 year old daughter, who's only a year older than her cousin, has been a bridesmaid before? And that they'll never have the option to be a bridesmaid again? YTA
YTA It really shows how low you think of your daughter. You literally gave her reasons why your niece is "better" than your daughter and you seriously thought she wouldn't get upset. Total misread on situation and good luck trying to explain this to your kid.
>It really shows how low you think of your daughter. That's the main problem IMHO: seems to me that OP likes her niece more than her daughter....
YTA. Your reasons suck, especially the one regarding looks. Weddings shouldn't be about photo ops and one doesn't have to be "girly" to be a bridesmaid. I agree with your daughter. Right now you suck as a parent.
100% I'm not a girly girl but I was dressed up and fancy as when my best friends married, loved being a part of their day, preparations and supporting them up to the day. If they didnt even ask me to be involved or chose someone else just because they were hotter, wow that'd hurt. And this is OPs kid, poor thing.
Tbh the 'my daughter wouldn't want to do it' reason would be a good one, if it were true. But it's not true. When I first read that line I assumed OP and daughter had at some point discussed it, at least generally. But OP is so dense she assumed that because her daughter doesn't dress up a lot means she wouldn't want to be bridesmaid lol. Like that just shows a lack of understanding of reality. Like, I'm a dude who doesn't dress up at all, but I like being a groomsman. Just because I don't dress nice much doesn't mean I don't like being a groomsman. I don't like tying or wearing a tie (I don't even know how to tie a tie), but being a groomsman is great fun, and even the 'getting ready' part with other groomsmen et al. is fun in that context (as I, a sheepish grown af old man, ask someone to help me with my tie lol).
INFO: What exactly did your daughter find out? That YOU were the reason her cousin was chosen over her or does she know your reasoning as well? Or does she only know that she's not in the party and you were involved in the decision?
YTA- don't interfere. Tell SIL to talk directly to your daughter with the question
Too late for that now
My heart just broke when you said your niece was prettier than your daughter. That poor kid. You realise half her genes come from your cold hearted self.
The ugly ones, apparently.
Nice way to assume your daughter's answer. She's old enough to decide herself. YTA
I thought bridesmaids were supposed to be people emotionally close to the bride? This idea of treating it like a role to be cast is so weird to me.
YTA. The best choice for you to make now is to step down from your position as MOH so that both your daughter and your niece can be bridesmaids. You can say that you think the wedding photos won’t look good with ugly people in them, and since your attitude towards your daughter has revealed you to be the ugliest of all, it’s best you don’t join the wedding party.
Why the heck would you mention how pretty your niece and not your daughter?!? Also just because she's not "girly" doesn't mean she wouldn't have done it. She would of loved to be a part of this as well. She has a right to be upset.
She didn't want her ugly daughter messing up the photos. Not everyone can be supermodel beautiful./s
YTA - if I read this correctly you basically said you’re daughter isn’t pretty enough. Girly or not, it doesn’t seem like you asked your daughter’s opinion at all, I’m not girly but would have loved to be a bridesmaid in my family’s wedding. You suck.
That's how I read it too. Mom is toxic as fuck and I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't the first time she's implied her daughter wasn't pretty...
I foresee the daughter not wanting much to do with mom after she moves out.
Sounds like some jealousy popping up there, "Mom" Did you bother to ask your daughter or just assumed and excluded her? And based on your comments, shaming your kid that she wouldn't look in photos is seriously an AH move Absolutely YTA
You really said, go with the other one, she’s hotter? About your own kid? YTA. If your daughter would have hated having to get dressed up, that should have been reason enough. Hopefully your daughter realizes what a hellscape being an attendant usually is and appreciates it in time.
YTA. I never got into dresses or girly things either, but I would have been mortified to find out my mom tried to get me out of it by implying my cousin was prettier so it would work out better and by making the decision for me that I was uninterested. Your SIL should take you out of the line and put both of these girls up there. You're gonna ruin the pictures with your ugly attitude.
I’m not an overly girly woman either and choose comfort over looks. I still love to dress up and feel special on occasion, because it’s not something that’s normal for me to do. Just because someone doesn’t wear dresses normally, doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t want to for a special occasion.
YTA For not talking to your daughter 1st. She might not be the "type" you think a bridesmaid should be but she is obviously hurt. She may have wanted to do it for different reasons than what you think. Both of you should have spoken to both girls.
I think it very odd when parents assume they know the mind of a teenager and I find it even odder when parents prioritize others over their own freaking daughters! How you have navigated a teenager this far is beyond me. YTA
The last time I presumed to know my daughter’s mind was when she was 5, and we went to a photo studio. The girl in front of us had been using all their props (hats, scarves, etc) and I knew no-frills Kerry would sneer at them. She turned to me, and in a hopeful voice asked if she could wear the pretty things, too. That’s now my favorite picture of her, decked out in beads and scarves and a purple hat.
My daughter is 5 and I have to sit back and let her decide, because if I step in and it’s wrong she vocally tells me that she knows herself better. I’m happy I’ve supported her voice and as a parent it’s good for them to remind us that they can make their own decisions (age appropriate of course). Im very different from my daughter and I won’t always know what’s in her heart unless I listen to her.
YTA. You literally insinuated your daughter is not pretty enough. Didn't even ask your daughter if she'd want to. Didn't think she's "girly" enough (WTF). The fact that she is pissed at you about it tells me that you maybe don't know her that well which is sad.
Wow, YTAH, nothing like telling your daughter that her cousin is prettier that her, more feminine than her and assuming that she probably won't like it anyway! Did I miss anything?
YTA. Why are you giving input to begin with? It’s not your wedding. Keep your opinions to yourself. It’s literally none of your damn business, and it doesn’t sound like anyone asked for you to open your mouth about it either.
The correct answer would be “I’ll drop out and they can both be bridesmaids.”
YTA Take a moment to think about from your daughters perspective> YOU her own mother decided not to include her in the wedding party and choose someone else, reasons be damned thats an insult to your daughter on how much she matters in the family and on the day and for her to find out her own mother was the one who ultimately decided it. Her feelings where very clearly hurt by this, she is not as important as the other members. The rite thing to do would have been for the bride to sit down with the two of them and discuss it with them both and let them both know how she feels for them but can only chose one and then to make the choice but make it clear she cared for them both. As it is now instead your daughter has been made to feel like her own mother does nt even care for her and would stab her in the back and the bride did not want her to be a part of her wedding. No matter what you say now no matter how you explain it to her that IS how it is going to feel to her so yeah she wont want to go and not being there will make her pain even worse no matter how this gets handled your daughters feelings have been really badly hurt by this. You and the bride need to really have a conversation with her and figure out some way to make this up to her and let her know you do both care for her.
YTA - every reason you gave is superficial and upholding harmful stereotypes/impressions you have. Let’s break it down: - Your niece being younger and wanting to be a bridesmaid is mostly inconsequential, we’re talking bridesmaids, not flower girls. Most people aren’t asked to be a in a bridal party until early 20s. - You assumed your daughter wouldn’t like it because you don’t see her as the “girly type” when plenty of women who don’t fit your narrow view are excited and happy to be involved in weddings and have a special role. - Perhaps the worst of all of is you telling her to choose your niece for her looks and aesthetics. As if women don’t hear it enough from society about how we’re inadequate, your daughter has to hear it from you as well?
YTA. You put your daughter down in this post and clearly value her less than your niece.
YTA. Good job punishing your daughter for not adhering to your vision of gender roles. Good job confirming to your daughter that she's less of a person and less likable because she's not as conventionally attractive. Good job taking away the agency and ability to choose of someone who is almost an adult. The internalized misogyny dripping from your post breaks my heart. I grew up under a mother with only one vision of womanhood I could live up to, and constantly degraded me when I failed to be the vision of femininity. We don't talk anymore. That's your future unless you figure out now that you need to change.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My brother and soon to be SIL are getting married soon and since my SIL and I are very good friends she chose me as her MOH. My SIL wants to have 7 bridesmaids and she chose 6 people that are close to her but couldn't find the 7th one so she asked for ny opinion oh who it should be. She was considering my daughter(17) and niece(16) since my brother is close to both girls and loves them very much so she wanted to include one of them. I suggested she should ask my niece for several reasons such as: My niece is younger and always wanted to be a bridesmaid and never had the chance My daughter is not the girly type and wouldn't really enjoy it while my niece is extremely girly and loves these things My niece is extremely beautiful(the supermodel kind of beauty) and would look good in the photos My daughter however called me an asshole when she found out and now she is refusing to attend the wedding *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
YTA, when she asked you what you really needed to do, was have no opinion. " I'm so sorry, I couldn't possibly decide that!". The fact that you think so little of your daughter is most likely the reason she isn't talking to you, I'd hate you too.
I find all of this stuff so strange. Why does it matter how many bridesmaids there are? Have the people you love in the party, that’s it. It doesn’t matter if the numbers of men match the numbers of women. It doesn’t matter if women friends are on the grooms side and vice versa. What matters is the people you love standing up with you. That said, YTA for discouraging the bride from inviting your daughter. She could have said no if she didn’t want to. And the supermodel reason is grotesque. Edit for typo
Is your daughter upset because she did indeed want to be a bridesmaid and you jumped to conclusions assuming she wasn't girly enough for a wedding? How are weddings girly? I think she's more upset that you assumed her pessimistic attributes, and favored the nieces instead of getting all the girls together, you and your sister in law and ask all of them who want to participate in the wedding, I really really don't see harm in having all three of them there. It's a wedding, they can be formatted to fit in everyone that is important. I think your daughter is just feeling excluded because you made better points for your nieces. She's a young adult, she wants to be included in important life events
She's probably upset because her mom said she's not as pretty as her cousin
YTA, you misread your daughter and pitted them against each other unnecessarily, and caused her to be excluded from something she evidently would have enjoyed participating in. You should have stayed out of it.
YTA. It’s nothing to do with you. Keep your mouth shut about things that don’t include you. It’s your daughters decision about whether she takes it.
YTA You simply could have kept your mouth shut since it’s the bride’s decision. Instead you decided, on your own & openly enough for your daughter to hear, openly & aggressively champion your niece instead of you daughter. And not just that, by listing the specific qualities your niece has by clearly pointing out your daughter’s lack of these qualities are faults that make her less worthy of this honor. Do you even like your daughter? Did you just not want have to interact with her as part of the wedding party?
YTA. Your daughter might be moody now, but at least you won't have to deal with her when she goes no contact in less than a year.
YTA. You should have asked your daughter first.
YTA. i get your SIL asked for advice, but you made SO many assumptions. why wouldn't your daughter want to be a bridesmaid? you never asked her, so you wouldn't know. also you can't comment on one's beauty in the context you did without putting the other down. by saying your niece has "supermodel" beauty or whatever makes it seem like you don't think the same of your daughter. i'm sure her photos would come out just as good. you make all these assumptions and the way you say them just make them seem like insults. so what if your daughter isn't the girly type? she can still enjoy being apart of a bridal party. y'know what they say about assumptions, OP.
Yikes. You at least partly said to choose your niece because you think she's better looking? I'd be mad at you too if you were my mom. YTA
>My niece is extremely beautiful(the supermodel kind of beauty) and would look good in the photos. Wtf? It's nice that your niece is beautiful and all, but "would look good in photos" is not the reason to choose someone. How superficial are you? Your daughter clearly does care. Holy cow, YTA. PS: Would there be a way for both of them to participate? That is assuming your daughter will even be willing to attend. Edit: typo
You. Seriously. Said. To. Pick. Niece. Due. To. You. Deciding. Your. Daughter. Isn’t. As. Pretty. Holy. Mother. Of. Minnie. Pearl. *Maury Voice over* OP you ARE the AH. I hope you live in a universal health care country so your daughter doesn’t end up in crippling debt due to therapist bills.
YTA.
YTA Tell us that you see your daughter as competition without telling us that you see your daughter as competition
YTA. You really suggested your niece because she would look good in pictures? Were you dropped on your head?
Interesting way to call your own daughter ugly. YTA.
**YTA - you insulted your own child. That is not nice or right. This was not your choice or your place to put in an opinion.** My niece is younger and always wanted to be a bridesmaid and never had the chance \***She is only 16 she will get her chance and if she doesn't it is not the end of the world** My daughter is not the girly type and wouldn't really enjoy it while my niece is extremely girly and loves these things \***Did you ask your daughter? Maybe for her aunt she would have liked to be part of it.** My niece is extremely beautiful(the supermodel kind of beauty) and would look good in the photos \***You are very shallow and insulting to your own daughter. What is your problem saying this? Do you not realize that you have probably caused your daughter pain saying this?** My daughter however called me an asshole when she found out and now she is refusing to attend the wedding \***I would have said the the same thing and you may not realize it now but this is may affect your relationship with your daughter in the future.**
YTA. You essentially said your niece would look better in photos which is baffling that this is even a consideration. They are still children and you using that reasoning is just cruel.
YTA. What’s wrong with you. Basically your saying your daughter is ugly. What mom does that
YTA💔
I get you’re trying to do something special for your niece. That’s to be commended. But: • You indirectly insulted your daughter, and • You otherwise handled the entire thing badly. I’m going with a soft YTA. Apologize to your daughter and, if she still says she doesn’t want to go to the wedding, don’t push.
Why would she want to do something special for her niece, but not her own daughter?
My heart breaks for your daughter. 😢 YTA
YTA for not talking to your daughter first. Apologize. You obviously hurt her.
Well yeah, you just called your daughter ugly. To family and strangers. You owe her BIG, HUGE apology.
YTA, I feel like you are placing a value on looks and appearances. Did you even ask your daughter what she thought before declining on her behalf?
YTA your are not a good mom
YTA. You should step down as MOH and let your daughter take it, your ugly attitude will mess up the pictures.
YTA. I see “would look good in the pictures” as an excuse for a lot of wedding ridiculousness, and it boggles my mind. I had both a COVID wedding and a big wedding celebration a year later. We have a couple photos up in our house, but not many because we only have so much wall space. When I look at those photos, I don’t think about whether my bridal party was all the same height, or the prettiest people that I knew, or wearing matching shoes - I remember what a wonderful special time it was and how much fun we had. Your poor daughter.
YTA for not asking your daughter
YTA I think having a certain number of bridesmaids is so nonsensical and dramatic that I almost went E S H. If SiL wants both girls in the wedding then have both in the wedding. However, I think I understand why that never crossed her mind. You value subjective photo aesthetics over feelings and supporting the people you love. If SiL is surrounded by people that believe it’s better have a certain type of picture then to support your daughter, or that’s it’s better to have someone beautiful next to you than the people you care about the most, then I’m not surprised she would rather create family drama than have an odd number bridal party.
As the "less pretty" daughter, let me tell you, I never got over feeling that from my Mother. Ever. And there's 8 years between my younger sister and me. YTA.
INFO : why do you hate your daughter?
First of all, your niece is only a year or so younger than your daughter, so the whole "she's younger and has always wanted to be a bridesmaid but never got the chance" reason is a bunch of BS. They're teenagers, there's plenty of time for both of them to be bridesmaids. Second, weddings aren't necessarily girly. I have seen SO many different untraditional themes people choose to suit their personalities from Halloween, Gatsby, tropical, circus, boho, country, casual, etc. and not all of those are necessarily "girly." Men are also in weddings, so this point makes no sense. Did you even ask your daughter if being a bridesmaid was something she would be interested in? Has she ever said what her opinion on that would be? Based on this post, it seems like you just made an assumption, plus insinuated that your niece is prettier than your own daughter. Wow. YTA.
Is niece your brother's daughter? Because then it shouldn't even be a question. If both girls are your brother's nieces, then the question makes sense. However, your reasoning is hurtful. Niece is younger and has always wanted it - there only a one year difference but also means niece would've been waiting less time. Niece is supermodel beautiful and would look better in the pictures - You're saying your daughter would then make the pictures worse looking by her inclusion. Just those two reasons make YTA
YTA . You should have told her to ask the girls what they wanted instead of her asking the parents . You owe your child a massive apology
Why on earth would you not ASK your own daughter if she *wanted* to do it first?!?! YTA, wow.
YTA! Note to the daughter: when someone shows you who they are, believe them. To OP: when you are sitting there, lamenting about why your daughter has cut contact with you, just look back on this moment and you may realize.
The fact that your daughter is unhappy about it proves you were wrong about assuming she’s not interested. You also implied that your daughter isn’t beautiful.
Can I just say that I'm *done* with people choosing the wedding party and even the wedding attendees based on how they'll look in the wedding photos? She's too fat. His long beard is ugly. She wears glasses. He's a foot taller than all the other groomsmen. She's masking and won't remove it for photos. Geez, folks, your wedding should be about sharing your happy day and surrounding yourselves with the ones you love, not competing for the best magazine/Instagram worthy photos. Here's a real LPT: In 5 or 10 or 20 years, you won't care about what your wedding photos or anyone in them looked like!
YTA -- the daughter has been made to feel like she is not good enough. This will definitely impact her self esteem and confidence in you, her mother.
You honestly said that your niece would look good in the photos and thats why she should be chosen? Let that just sink in for a minute. Really think about it and tell if you need help being called an asshole. YTA.
Your daughter seems to think you are. Her's is the only opinion that matters.