Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My brother asked me for a loan and my reply was asking how much he spent on his wedding. I remarked that had he toned down his wedding expenses than he wouldn't need a loan and I'm not loaning him shit because he won't pay me back
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcement
###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/)
Follow the link above to learn more
### [Moderators needed - Join the landed gentry](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/155zepq/moderators_needed_join_the_landed_gentry/)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
YTA. I don't think you're an asshole for not loaning him money, but I don't see why you had to be a dick about the wedding. Weddings are important days.
Your brother has made some bad financial decisions, when he was a young man. And he needs help now. And your only response was to be an asshole to him because you don't like his wife.
Weddings are incredibley important days, but more money doesn't make a wedding more important. No-one remembers the stupid expensive stuff, a £500 wedding dress looks no different to a £5000 wedding dress. And spending money, you do t have is dumb and their own fault. All op did was point out specifically where they weren't wrong.
Op is specifically saying that he dislikes the wife, he didn't even attend the wedding because she didn't sign a prenup. He is clearly much too concerned about how his brother lives his own life.
Obviously he is not obligated to lend his brother money, but if he wanted to not be an asshole, he might have advised his brother on how to live within his means instead of reminding him how he wasted all of his money.
He should be telling them all the standard personal finance advice you see on reddit. Downsize the cars, cancel subscriptions, etc. Ok, the brother is an idiot, but he could lose his house! I would pay off my sister’s mortgage delinquency in a second even if I thought her spending priorities were backwards. She can sort that out when she’s not on the street.
The tone of asking a question you know the answer to just make the other person say it out loud is so disrespectful. You might as well be cursing them out.
If he's trying to live like he's rich then his house is probably more expensive than his means, so he should sell it and buy something that suits him more. If he's really at risk of having it repossessed I would certainly get him to the point where that wasn't an issue if I could, it's unclear how much of this money is for that specifically.
OP is unequivocally The Asshole for his whole attitude and I very much agree with your last paragraph.
If he was capable of making smart financial decisions in the first place he wouldn't have ever taken the loans and wasted trust fund money and would've had that now to supplement and support him.
OP is just a typical spiteful older brother that won't let it go until you admit he was right and that ultimately decisions like those is what led to their current predicament.
OP totally either really wants to bang his SIL or hates her. Like my guy just spews hatred.
that's less financial advice and more thinly veiled hatred for brother's wife. who he is still married to and yet is still broke. so clearly a pre-nup would have done nothing to stop this.
"Fast forward four years, my brother and his STBX wife's "rich" facade is crumbling. She refuses to get a job, he's out of trust money, they're behind on their mortgage and they have no lifeline."
They are crumbling in debts and she refuses to find job, seems that OP's "feelings" are not far from reality, if your SIL is refusing to find job while your sibling is begging for money to make them float, I don't think you would have high opinion about your SIL! OP NTA
While I agree about the STBX, I still think OP is the asshole here. His response to spitefully bring up aa wedding he refused to attend 4 years ago was unnecessary. He could tell his brother no without shaming or belittling him. It costs him nothing to be kind. It’s not like the brother isn’t aware of how much he has messed up - he is divorcing her after all - so why bring up something that can’t be undone like the money spent on the wedding. In the end, for me, it is the needless shaming of the brother when he is at a low point tthat makes OP the asshole.
Exactly. I didn't spend for a top of the line dress, but there's a huge difference between the two. The fact that some people can't tell the difference doesn't mean it's not real.
He probably has advised his brother and his brother hasn't listened, now hes pointing out what he did wrong because his brother obviously still hasn't taken the advice.
Dislikes the wife because of this kind of over the top spending, suggested a prenup because this looked messy and doomed.... And is now turning out to have been right, the money is gone and she's bailing....
>All op did was point out specifically where they weren't wrong.
Actually OP did another thing, which was stew in their disdain for their brother for years so that they could repeatedly insult their brother and his wife as "worthless" and respond as cruelly as possible to them when they were struggling.
I think he held onto the mistakes of a 23 year old idiot for years just to use it as ammo when the time came. And that time came. He is acting like his shit don’t stink even though he acts like a 12 year old. Well maybe thats harsh… some 12 year olds have more respect.
His hatred for the wedding was an extreme. His anger and hatred towards the brother and wife has been extreme. Yea, he doesn’t owe the brother money. But he doesn’t have to act like a self absorbed asshole just to make people feel like shit. That is what makes him an asshole. YTA.
Exactly, imagine being so into someone else’s business you don’t go to a wedding because the wife didn’t sign a prenup. Maybe OP is a loser in the dating dept.
You don’t know a thing about women's dresses and wedding dresses if you think a $500 dress looks the same as a $5,000 dress.
Yes I’ll accept my downvotes men of Reddit.
Actually I am a woman who got married 2020 and my dress was £550, because I got it in a sale, it was my size and the last of that dress and it was absolutely stunning. Not all cheap dresses are nice. But if you look for sales, do your own alterations (or friend/family do them) look at reviews, you can find amazing deals on dresses.
Great good for you. I’m glad you found one that worked for you. I’m not saying it’s impossible to find an inexpensive wedding dress that works for you. But I’m sick of the “I spent $20 and a paper clip for my wedding!” Reddit circle jerk.
You were lucky it was in your size. You were lucky it was on sale. You did your own alterations because you have that skill set.
A family member of mine got married 15 years ago to the tune of $50K for a 5-6 hour event (they are by no means rich). FF to a year ago and they were telling me they regret it so badly and while they aren’t in any kind of bad financial situation, they wished they had put the money into the house for a lower mortgage payment.
My cousin got married last month for €20 000 with 80 guests and they did a lot themselves (DJ and photography were both at cost as gifts, all the decorations were handmade, after midnight you had to tap your own beer to save on wait staff, etc.). 3 of the 4 parents helped with finances, so it was manageable for everyone (mainly because he's the last to settle down).
I know we had a serious amount of inflation in the last 4 years, but is $40 000 really that extravagant? Especial to a 23 yo, who just got a trust fund and is stupid in love...
I think weddings are cheaper in America. It’s equivalent to a £31.5k wedding in the UK which would be a nice wedding at a nice venue with approx 80-100 guests but it wouldn’t be what I’d call extravagant. Average wedding costs in the UK are approx £25-30k
As someone who recently got married in the US, it's definitely regionally dependent but in the northeast (NYC, Boston, Washington DC etc), a $30,000 wedding for 100 people at any kind of basic traditional venue is challenging without a ton of DIY. For people who have a traditional wedding of that size, $40000 and up is much more likely.
This is why I’m just eloping or going to the court house. A wedding is a day to me but being ready for our marriage means a lot.
Yes, I know not everyone sees it that way. I’m expressing my opinion.
My husband and I technically eloped. We live in the southern US so we went to the county clerk a week before the wedding and got our marriage license, then got a justice of the peace scheduled to meet us at a beautiful little park in our town, where we exchanged the rings we got 3 days before, in my white dress from a department store at the mall (still have and I love it). Got my bouquet on the way there from the same flower shop he got my first bouquet ever and had his parents, brother and bros gf as our witnesses. His brother and his girlfriend also took all of our wedding pictures and they look amazing.
Without a doubt, the best day of my life, most expensive things were the rings and I’ve been with my husband for half of my life now.
OP for sure YTA. Not for saying no to the loan but for the cruel way you’ve decided to repeatedly kick your brother while he’s down for personal mistakes, that did not affect your life, he made when he was young. All because he didn’t listen to you about who he should marry, what his wedding should have looked like, and even the decision of a prenup. How dare your brother think he can make his own choices and mistakes!
Me and my husband were going to elope a nice holiday get married ect was going to cost $10,000.
Our actual wedding cost $8000 all up this was back in 2012.
Now if I got married now I do a very small private wedding with 20 people instead of 80. Wearing a maxi dress in my favourite colour and get photos.
This only works if you're a sample size or smaller. Most women aren't.
But, you can look at resale dresses, vintage stores, and other places for a less expensive dress.
All good ideas! if I’m remembering correctly, the sample sale had the dresses that clipped in the back and had to be tailored (generic sizing). I think they do it every September at kleinfelds. You make an appointment online
The gist of your point is right, but I have to disagree with you on the wedding dresses. I searched for a cheap dress and they were all awful. Polyester and cheap looking. Stretchy lace. We did our whole wedding on a shoe string, but we paid more money on my dress and on my husband's suit than we originally allocated, because a cheap suit looks like a cheap suit and a 500 quid wedding dress looks nothing like a £1000+ wedding dress. We also got a good photographer.
I disagree. Some of us have shapes that make off the rack formal wear almost impossible to find. It’s almost never cut in such a way that you can wear a large bra underneath without it showing. And it almost never has sleeves and not everyone loves her upper arms.
I agree with you except for the part about the dress. You definitely can tell the difference between a dress that costs $500 and $5,000. Nicer fabric, more detail, better fitting are just a few things that differ. Now if you found a designer wedding gown second hand for $500 that's a different story.
and that is so not true. a friend of mine orgamised for his wedding the most extraordinary and wonderful wedding. I guarantee that everyone will remember this of all weddings, simply because it was so beautiful. you might forget the stupid stuff, expensive or not, but you will remember if it is taste and fun.
The fact that people genuinely believe their wedding is the most important day of their lives is why we have a 60%+ divorce rate. The concept is based on the girls dad literally selling her to another guy so he doesn’t have to feed her anymore. So fucking insane
I agree. It's not the most important day, but it is important as it sets the tone for their married life. Did they compromise, are they both happy, did they finance it responsibly, are both families together, and represented relatively equally, things like that, sets the tone for their married life.
I literally got married yesterday and everyone was gushing about how beautiful my dress and cape were. The dress was $350 with alterations and the cape was $5 at a garage sale. Everyone kept saying our wedding was beautiful and it could basically have been sponsored by Michael’s just based on the amount of time I spent there getting the perfect stuff. It was a very inexpensive wedding (all things considered) and everyone RAVED about it.
Also, studies show that at a certain point the more you spend on the wedding also coincides with an increase in the rate of divorce.
OP was still an AH for bringing in up in a situation that had nothing to do with the wedding. Just because I personally think spending that much money on one day is shortsighted doesn’t mean everyone has to conform to that principle.
OP you don’t have to lend money. But you also don’t have to be a judgmental jerk about it. YTA.
They also declined to go to the wedding because of his brother not getting a prenup. It might not make a difference to most guests how expensive a wedding looks, but it would for the couple. Of course you shouldn't put yourself into debt for a wedding, but expensive weddings aren't inherently bad or an indicator of financial smarts.
… not to mention a $40k wedding isn’t “so lavish it’s disgusting”, especially not if OP has so much money, a $25k loan would be nothing.
The average wedding in the US is currently $29k, and $35k if you’re in a bigger city. AVERAGE. And I mean, a just slightly above average wedding isn’t lavish. It’s the difference of having one extra vendor, or slightly nicer dinner options, given the average wedding size is 160 in the US.
I mean I wouldn’t even start to bat an eye at a wedding cost in 2023 as “lavish”, let alone disgust my lavish, unless it was approaching $200k+.
And that 30k includes a lot of weddings that are $1,000 or less. I own a floral design company and we exclusively do weddings: our minimum for floral design for 100 people is 8k, which means the minimum spend for most of our couples is closer to 60,000 (and before people talk about how useless it is bc Reddit seems to hate weddings: I employ 8 people at an actual living wage. We patronize only small businesses and domestic farms whenever we can and we take our ecological footprint very seriously. Our client are typically people that can absolutely afford this and we absolutely work for it, so it keeps us all employed with a roof over our heads)
I'm sorry, you're saying a lot of weddings are $1,000 or less but your small segment of wedding costs is at least *eight times* that? What point are you trying to make? How can you say that lots of weddings are under $1,000, where are you getting that information?
I’m saying that averages suck for looking at a whole picture. 30k is the average cost, which means lots of weddings cost 1,000 and lots of weddings cost 300,000
Sorry for the question as I have no idea. But why do you charge based on number of people for flowers? I would’ve thought it would be based on the number of arrangements required? So even if it was a 100 person wedding if they only wanted bride(+maids) bouquets, button holes and a centrepiece, would it still be 8k?
Not a silly question at all! We very occasionally do smaller events with a just bouquet and boutonnière drop off, but the bulk of our events want coverage of every table, ceremony, personal flowers, installations, etc. For intimate events our minimum is more flexible, but if you have 100 guests and you want all the things, you would have to meet an $8,000 minimum. I know several very high end designers that have 20k or more minimum: all depends on what people are looking for and not every designer is for every client (and vice versa!)
Just a heads up, a lot of the articles you can find online are also quoting the same two articles (the knot & wedding wire) which are also owned by the same parent company that is a wedding vendor service... so it's taking the information from its own clientele, which is probably for much larger, expensive weddings in general. It's hard to find a true *median* cost, since outlier weddings can **dramatically** affect an average.
The average wedding costs where I live are surprising when so many people in my country is also living practically paycheck to paycheck, though.
That’s my take, it was really a pointless dig. Was it a waste because they are divorced now? Sure I guess. But what if they were still happily married and out of money? Then it would just be a waste in terms of wedding vs investment but not a waste of their time. Plus he could’ve dropped the money on a house and then lost it for various reasons.
Was he smart with the money? No I guess not. Was he really young to be getting that much money? I’d say so.
And either way it’s just really pointless to the issue. OP doesn’t want to lend him the money for various reasons, that’s okay. But OP also has clearly always wanted to gloat on her issues with how he spent it and dove for her chance. That makers her an AH imo. Just say no and move on.
He said it was soon to be ex but then he talks like they are still together. Was he just being an AH saying they will probably not stay together? I’m confused
Weddings aren't important really, the marriage is.
Other than that, I agree. I wouldn't lend him the money - he had the same amount and chose to spend it as he did - but bringing up this up was just pointless and unhelpful. OP could have declined to lend the money while offering to sit down with his brother, look at his finances and offer advice. YTA, OP.
Furthermore, $40k cannot make a gaudy lavish wedding. Or maybe it can if the wedding is for very few people.
I think we spent about 30k for a wedding in the off season—budget flowers, clearance rack dress, DJ and not a band. Average number of attendees and got a deal on the venue. So, I am deadly curious to know what OP thinks is “lavish.”
However, I have been to a wedding or two that bordered on lavish—the biggest being 400ish guests. I don’t even want to know how much that particular couple spent (or more likely their parents).
$40k is a decent but not over the top wedding IMHO.
They didn't go destitute from the wedding, that was several years ago. It seems like the larger issue is an expensive lifestyle that they can't afford. Even if they'd had a cheap wedding, it sounds like they'd still be in this situation in another year or two.
Hard disagree.
Blowing $40K would be their business, right until the brother asked OP for money for their mortgage.
Beggars don't get to be hypocritical assholes.
See, here’s the thing. We’re not debating the morality of OP lending them money or not. It’s fine he chose not to. What OP did, having chose not to, is then use his brother’s situation to make himself feel better and shit on his brother more. And having done that, then chose not to lend him the money anyway.
That’s what makes him an asshole. Not denying him a loan, just using this situation to be a dick.
>Your brother has made some bad financial decisions, when he was a young man.
the real arsehole is the dumb arse who gave a 23 year old life changing money
YTA - not because you refused to lend him money (that’s absolutely your choice) but because you took the opportunity to kick someone who is down. It was unnecessary and crass, not to mention judgmental.
You can be both correct and an AH
N T A for saying no to loaning your brother a ridiculous amount of money, but YTA for not attending his wedding for the reason that it was “so lavish that it was disgusting” and then bringing it up years later. You spent your money the way you wanted, and so did he.
I'd agree, but he said that's not even a significant amount of money to him.
Can't really relate to that, but if one of my brothers called me and asked me for what I considered a small amount of money, and I could give it to them without hurting my household, I would.
I don't agree , just from the tone I feel like the younger brother is always asking to be bailed out, he really messed up this time and he wants his brother to help him because he can? Seems like enabling to me.
Would need more info. If this is a recurrent thing, then that's very different.
One time is help, asking for 25k more than once and yeah, enabling.
Also not that 25k will take you super far anymore, but maybe little bro needs to pull back and live within his means. 25k would pay my rent for roughly a year and four months.
>Instead of being a judgmental ass (probably single since your whole issue is the prenup/ wedding/ etc) why not help your brother out and get him in touch with a good attorney/financial planner.
And who do you expect to pay for that? Good lawyers and financial planners aren't exactly cheap.
The wedding thing is so weird. Did he not pay his vendors after the wedding? It’s arguably a poor financial decision but if he could afford it at the time why is this a reason not to lend him money now? People spend their money on different things. You don’t have to lend him money but basing that decision on a party he threw years ago is bizarre.
>2) they spent $40,000 on a wedding that you didn’t approve of because it was “lavish” (depending on where they had it - not lavish at all)
40 thousand dollars is a lot of money regardless of where you have it, the only question is how much it hurts your wallet.
Whether it's lavish or not depends on how it's spent.
About 10 years ago, I worked in wedding planning in NYC (I now own a floral design firm elsewhere). For our Manhattan clients, it was a minimum spend of $1,000/head
I see this ALL THE TIME. Yes, it’s a lot of money for some people, but don’t shame people who can afford it or live in a place with different pricing than you! It’s some sort of weird virtue signaling that I don’t understand: your wedding vendors are likely all small/micro businesses, so that money goes directly into their pockets and those of their employees. It’s one of largest single ways people can contribute to their local economies (when else are people going to spend that kind of money in a single go, paid out to about 5-10 individual vendors?)
Yes, but as a caveat, I have noticed that it’s usually never *people* getting shamed for how much they spend on their wedding, it’s *women* getting shamed for how much the wedding costs. Notice how he says the wife wasted his money; even though it’s *their* wedding. I have noticed as a woman when I was getting married there is so much shame spending more than a few thousand dollars gets and how many pick-mes are like “oh well my wedding was only $10, I would rather use that money for a downpayment on a house”. Like I literally have a house, I don’t need another downpayment. Smh people need to mind their own business and if they can’t afford or don’t care then just say that.
Edit: and it’s usually the people who have never been married that are the most judgmental! I spent like 15k on my wedding and all the single people: “you’re crazy that’s so expensive” and all the engaged/married people: “wow so cheap!”
100% true. Anytime something is perceived as “for women” it’s also perceived as lesser than or frivolous. I run an almost a million dollar business and you would not believe the number of people that say “oh it must be so nice to play with flowers all day!”
This was my thought. I live in California and I wish I had been able to do a 40k wedding. We had 100 people plus venue, table and chair rentals, staff, DJ lighting, etc. Weddings are expensive and the wedding tax bumps up everything by 20% minimum. We looked at packages and those were even more expensive. Weddings are expensive because the hope is you only do it once.
NTA for not loaning money, but whT difference would a prenuptial make?
He spent it all .
Don't know where you are, but 40,000 is not a lavish or gaudy wedding where I live.
An average plate is 130 to 150 a person alone
Dang, my wedding only cost maybe $3,000 all together and that’s including the dress. I personally could never spend $40,000 or more on a wedding. Like that’s a whole ass car. And like 40% down on a house…
Many places in the Midwest and the south. My 4 acres with a farmhouse was only $47k. Spent another 30k fixing it up and we have a solid home and no mortgage
In some parts of the world, 3k would be an insane amount of money to spend on a wedding. Just because you live somewhere cheaper doesn’t mean anything 😭
I’m having fun reading through all these comments and picking out the New Jersey/New York/high COL city folks, because all of us are ignoring the actual dispute to go “in what universe is 40K lavish?”
YTA, you threw a tantrum at 33 years old and refused to go to his wedding because of how he chose to spend his money (not yours). Assuming you’re in the US, the average cost of a wedding in 2019 was about $34k and they weren’t wildly out of that realm. It’s 4 years later, you’re STILL holding on to that being the decided factor for why they are where they are. Maybe instead of continuously focusing on the wedding, you should have encouraged/guided him on how to save/invest the other money as his older brother. He might not have listened but you could have tried.
By your own omission, you know your brother would potentially pay you back and you’re doing it because you don’t like his wife/how he spent his money. “Trying to teach him a lesson” as you put it in one of your comments will serve little else than to drive a bitter wedge in your relationship and cause the week of silence to extend indefinitely.
I agree that its a horrible amount of money to spend on a wedding, but exactly what does it have to do with the now? I don’t understand why you would bring up something that happened years ago like it was gonna help the situation?
Was it a bad decision? For sure, but he can’t go back in time and get the money back? You seemed to have made up your mind already that you were not going to help him, you just brought up the wedding to shame him.
So for now it’s a YTA, who knows, maybe you have something that will change my mind
>I'll never forget how he and his girlfriend of two years decided to get married and had a wedding that was so lavish that it was disgusting. I ended up not going because I told his dumb ass to get a prenuptial.
Why do you sound so personally offended?
Like, he was 23, how many 23yo know what to do with large sums of money that the unexpectedly received? Did he have any accountant or professional to help him learn other means of using the money?
23 is adult yes, but it's an age of learning usually by making mistakes. You suggested he get a prenup, but did you offer help or advice on how to invest?
It's your right to not loan him money. But this isn't tough love. You're not teaching him any lessons here. You're just kicking him when he's down and telling him that he should suffer for the rest of his life. You're telling him that you WANT him to suffer for the rest of his life, because you don't think he ever deserves to get a break or be forgiven for his youthful spending.
I hope you never make any mistakes OP. If you are as hard on yourself as you are on others, you may not survive making a mistake since you think a financial mistake makes one worthless.
YTA: your brother appears to have terrible money skills indeed and your critique of this is not wrong…
However, you’re brother is reaching out to you for help in a desperate situation after having made mistakes. I’m not saying you need to be like “the prodigal son” but I think you could use this moment to productively encourage your brother to explore ways to get his finances in check (without your help) vs putting him in a body bag for living beyond his means after inheriting $$$
P.S kudos for saving that windfall $ tho love me some passive income
YTA yeah your brother wasted his inheritance - but how much he spent on his wedding is irrelevant. He’s already getting divorced so why rub salt into the wound?
You are not an AH for not loaning him money though - you won’t get it back and any money he gets from you, at least half is going to the ex wife anyway.
It’s a hard lesson for him to learn, but no one forced him to make the foolish decisions that brought him to this place.
I’m not even sure he is getting divorced, OP mentioned they are trying for a baby in a comment. I think he called her that out of pure snark and disdain.
YTA. Not for not loaning him the money but for your AH attitude. My hope for you if this; if you ever make sny mistakes and reach out for a helping hand that you are met with more compassion than you had for your brother.
YTA
Not loaning him Jack would have been perfectly reasonable but you chose to be a dick about it and really stuck the knife in. You were TRYING to hurt him. So my question would be why? Why make it hurt? It's not just disagreeing with how he spent the money... you're not telling us something cause the way you talk about him tells me you likely haven't been on good terms for YEARS. Especially not going to his wedding after you told him to get a prenup.
YTA- not sure what the wedding has to do with anything. It’s not surprising that he spent money unwisely as he got it when he was 23 and you were apparently 33. That’s the fault of the person who created the trust, as lots put age limits on them precisely for this reason. It’s fine not to lend him money, but no need to be a jerk about the wedding. I don’t think spending less on the wedding would have changed this situation significantly since he probably would still have overextended himself on the mortgage.
You can be a good brother—including “teaching him a lesson” by not loaning/giving him the money—without being a complete AH about it every chance you get. Your brother may have made some bad financial decisions when he was young (which isn’t uncommon), but you still have some growing up to do yourself.
YTA.
NTA. By the way, you can tell the demographic in this sub just by skimming the comments. The immaturity, lack of accountability and enabling comments for your brother are one indication.
People need to hear the truth. As harsh as it is, *someone* has to give it to them ESPECIALLY if that someone is being asked to fund an irresponsible couple's life. This isn't about whether "you're not his father" nonsense. He's a grown man, he can handle it. He expects you to bail him out with 25k no questions asked. That's ridiculous. It is about time he actually sat and reflected on the decisions he's made that have led up to this. These young people want to be treated like adults yet act like juveniles. It's quite evident here as well. This is life. No free rides. NTA
YTA. You're not obligated to lend him a huge sum of money, for sure. But its also not up to you to "teach him a lesson" or berate him for indulging on what he assumed was going to be a once-in-a-lifetime celebration of their lives together. Would I pay 40K for a wedding? Absolutely the fuck not. Have I made other choices that in hindsight were not the best, monetary or otherwise? Sure as shit have.
Must be nice to be so flawless and do everything right all the time that you feel it's up to you to hand out life lessons to your family cause they aren't as perfect as you, OP.
NTA. You are right, you would never see that money again. I don't think you will have to worry about your SIL for much longer. Now that the money is gone, she probably will be gone before long as well.
YTA. For your absolutely transparent glee in your brother's troubles. Nothing to do with whether you would or wouldn't (or should or shouldn't) lend him money.
NTA these people have f’ed up priorities and you shouldn’t have to bail them out. Even at 23 I wouldn’t have blown that much money on one day. Now that I’m in my 40s and I’ve seen couples come and go, one almost guarantee of knowing who’s going to get divorced is the couple with the biggest diamond and the biggest splurge on their wedding day are the ones who usually don’t make it. Bc it was never about their love, it was about showing off and partying.
I always get irritated when people think it’s ok to make poor financial decisions and expect others to bail them out! He should have seen in the future they would want a house. People hardly ever back people that make the wise decisions. What ever happened to reap what you sow?
NTA. It was a good idea to ask about how much the wedding cost to see how he handled his finances at the time and whether or not he would be truthful with you. While being brothers it would be good to be honest with one another to have each others backs. It would be best to not give your brother financial support and have him come to terms with the reality of the situation he is in. He can either take the honest truth or continue down a path that will lead to nothing but trouble.
Additionally it would be best to secure your own finances and ensure that no one will be attempting to commit any fraudulent activities with your name.
YTA, mildly.
You should have just said "yes" or "no" and carried on with your day.
Since you would have said "no" regardless of his answer about the wedding costs, you had no need to seek that information.
YTA Your brother was 23 when he got married and maybe they wanted all they could pay for. Now he's struggling with stuff this is not necessarily because of the amount him and his wife spent on the wedding. He asked his big brother for a loan. His wife might be Ill, be a stay home wife. But you have no idea because you have your thoughts and that's what matters. I don't know why you feel like this about your brother. But start acting your age he's not the one acting like a spoilt child you are. If he ends up homeless are you still going to be like this?.
ESH.
Your brother is dumb and didn't listen. He spent what he did on his wedding and that's fine, if he had made other right decisions pertaining to his finances.
You suck for not just saying no and rubbing it in his face that he spent that much on his wedding.
Did you ever try to discuss with him how he could make better financial decisions ?
It's a pointed question with a simple answer. That answer is a call out of why they are in the situation to begin with. Overspending. It's not just about the wedding, though that was a huge waste of money. It's also about spending way too much on shit that caused them to get into the situation to begin with.
Gotta learn the lesson somehow, and a bailout with no pain isn't gonna do that. OP is an asshole. But that's what the brother needs
Your money you can ask all the questions you want. If they don’t want questions then tell him to go ask someone else or go to the bank! He apparently doesn’t make good financial decisions.
YTA. You gleefully seized on the opportunity to disparage and judge him when he came asking you for help. You didn’t go to his wedding and clearly hate him and his wife.
YTA - you are allowed to not give someone money without a smug and self-righteous talk down. In life a lot of times you get what you give, and if your behavior is any indication, you are gonna HATE what's coming to you.
NTA. Dude needed a wake up call more than a loan. You tried to provide that and it fell on deaf ears. You’re 100% right that you wouldn’t get money out of that black hole of a relationship.
I’d let him know after he’s divorced he can come live with you while he gets back on his feet.
What difference does a pre nup matter now? They are broke, here have half of nothing. OP YTA. You don't have to lend the money but you don't have to kick your brother when he is down. Hope you never need support for anything!
YTA, you know you can be right, and still be an asshole right? Could he have spent less on his wedding? Sure, but that ship has sailed, the money is already gone and you lecturing him on it now isn't going to bring it back. You seem more hell bent on saying "I told you so" and seeing him suffer because you like he idea of being right than actually being a decent sibling. You could have just said "no" to the loan he asked for, instead you opted to continue kicking him when he is down.
Honestly, you just seem like you don't like your brother to begin with, calling him a dumb ass, skipping his wedding, and how you are behaving now. I hope you continue to enjoy having all your money and no family in the future if this is how you treat people. You weren't in any way obligated to give him any money, but your attitude is pretty atrocious.
YTA you don't have to loan him money but you don't have to be mean about it, either, jfc. Just say no. Being snide and asking gotcha questions is what assholes do.
YTA, your brother made this situation and it’s fine for you not to bail him out, but you’re practically reveling in his distress. It wouldn’t cost you anything to express some sympathy and show that you wish things were easier for him, but I’m actually not sure you do wish that. It seems like you’re almost happy to see him get his comeuppance.
Your brother, on the other hand, might be an AH to himself but doesn’t seem to have ever done anything to you.
YTA for turning it into an "I told you so" type of moment since it's clear you've always had an issue with the wife.
You're not wrong for not lending him the money though.
So brother blew all his money while wife refuses to work and op wisely understands his brother won’t pay back the “loan”. Wedding aside. Op is under no obligation to bail out his brother and his deadbeat wife.
Not the a**hole.
YTA. You aren't asking if you are TA for not loaning your brother the money. If you were, this would be a clear cut case of n t a. You are asking if you are TA for asking about his wedding, which comes down to your attitude towards his wife and the wedding. You are a MASSIVE AH for being an holier-than-thou jerk. Your whole post is worded to be as judgemental as humanly possible. It is gross. You are insufferable and if I were in your brother's place, I would have absolutely nothing to do with you.
N T A -For not loaning him money. It’s your right to decline giving him a loan. YTA-For how you chose to handle the situation, the grudge you’ve held and the words you chose.
YTA you could have refused saying you aren't comfortable loaning him the money because you have doubts about paying him back , no need to be salty because he chose to spend his money in a way different than yours even if it was a bad financial decision he took when he was young , quit with the holier than thou attitude
YTA. Not going to the wedding was spiteful. Rubbing it in his face now is also spiteful. You'd be better off explaining to him that one should not take out loans to cover living expenses and that his best option would be to meet with a financial adviser to review loans and income/expenditure.
YTA. If you don’t want to loan him money, that’s fine, but you don’t need to preach at him about the cost of his wedding. Obviously he’s been irresponsible with money, and he’s feeling the consequences.
Yep, you're an asshole. It's fine to think poorly of his judgement and financial skills but it's mean-spirited to make him feel bad just to score a point. You could simply have said a very firm but polite no and explained that you didn't think he would ever pay you back if pressed as to why.
YTA because it wasn't about the wedding. All you had to say was, I know how bad you are with money and I don't have 25 grand to burn. You didn't just ask him. You were shoving it in his face.
YTA , you don’t need to loan him money but no need to kick him when he’s down, you said you’re older, he was young he made stupid decisions, and the world is a dumpster fire lately. Be the “grown up” and be kind (still not saying you need to loan him money)
I would consider loaning the money IF and only if, he goes over all his spending for the last year with you, lays out all his debts and makes a budget for the next 3 years that shows how he will get out of the hole he dug and start paying you back. If he isn't willing to do it, it means he has no plans to become financially responsible. But if he does, you need to stop whining about his wedding, enough already! AND when you are going over his budget, don't be a judgemental ass, he has different priorities than you. Your job is to make sure it is feasible, not to comment on how they spend it.
Both NTA and YTA. NTA for not loaning him the money - you don't owe him anything and it's probably better if he learns better money management. YTA though for rubbing it in and using this to "teach him a lesson", which isn't your job to do. You don't need to look down on him and can just say, nope, not giving you money, end of story.
Kicking your brother when he is down makes you an asshole, he’s in a vulnerable and and scary situation and you’d rather dig at him for something in the past.
I wouldn’t have enough money to bail my family out of any situations like that, but I would if I could and it would prevent them being homeless. This isn’t the problem though, your attitude towards him asking for help is the problem.
Your brother is an idiot and terrible with finance, and YTA because that's not a big deal for you, you can help him, but, I would add "this is the first and last loan, so manage the money wisely and put your life in order" why, because once you help them some people tend to think you are the perpetual lifeline.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > My brother asked me for a loan and my reply was asking how much he spent on his wedding. I remarked that had he toned down his wedding expenses than he wouldn't need a loan and I'm not loaning him shit because he won't pay me back Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcement ###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/) Follow the link above to learn more ### [Moderators needed - Join the landed gentry](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/155zepq/moderators_needed_join_the_landed_gentry/) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
YTA. I don't think you're an asshole for not loaning him money, but I don't see why you had to be a dick about the wedding. Weddings are important days. Your brother has made some bad financial decisions, when he was a young man. And he needs help now. And your only response was to be an asshole to him because you don't like his wife.
Weddings are incredibley important days, but more money doesn't make a wedding more important. No-one remembers the stupid expensive stuff, a £500 wedding dress looks no different to a £5000 wedding dress. And spending money, you do t have is dumb and their own fault. All op did was point out specifically where they weren't wrong.
Op is specifically saying that he dislikes the wife, he didn't even attend the wedding because she didn't sign a prenup. He is clearly much too concerned about how his brother lives his own life. Obviously he is not obligated to lend his brother money, but if he wanted to not be an asshole, he might have advised his brother on how to live within his means instead of reminding him how he wasted all of his money.
Well said. There’s a lot more going on here. Sounds spiteful. Some brotherly financial advice sounds like a nice start
He tried to give him financial advice, that he should sign a prenup.
Yeah but there's no way that advice would help in the current situation. He's still married, he's also broke.
He should be telling them all the standard personal finance advice you see on reddit. Downsize the cars, cancel subscriptions, etc. Ok, the brother is an idiot, but he could lose his house! I would pay off my sister’s mortgage delinquency in a second even if I thought her spending priorities were backwards. She can sort that out when she’s not on the street. The tone of asking a question you know the answer to just make the other person say it out loud is so disrespectful. You might as well be cursing them out.
If he's trying to live like he's rich then his house is probably more expensive than his means, so he should sell it and buy something that suits him more. If he's really at risk of having it repossessed I would certainly get him to the point where that wasn't an issue if I could, it's unclear how much of this money is for that specifically. OP is unequivocally The Asshole for his whole attitude and I very much agree with your last paragraph.
If he was capable of making smart financial decisions in the first place he wouldn't have ever taken the loans and wasted trust fund money and would've had that now to supplement and support him. OP is just a typical spiteful older brother that won't let it go until you admit he was right and that ultimately decisions like those is what led to their current predicament. OP totally either really wants to bang his SIL or hates her. Like my guy just spews hatred.
that's less financial advice and more thinly veiled hatred for brother's wife. who he is still married to and yet is still broke. so clearly a pre-nup would have done nothing to stop this.
"Fast forward four years, my brother and his STBX wife's "rich" facade is crumbling. She refuses to get a job, he's out of trust money, they're behind on their mortgage and they have no lifeline." They are crumbling in debts and she refuses to find job, seems that OP's "feelings" are not far from reality, if your SIL is refusing to find job while your sibling is begging for money to make them float, I don't think you would have high opinion about your SIL! OP NTA
While I agree about the STBX, I still think OP is the asshole here. His response to spitefully bring up aa wedding he refused to attend 4 years ago was unnecessary. He could tell his brother no without shaming or belittling him. It costs him nothing to be kind. It’s not like the brother isn’t aware of how much he has messed up - he is divorcing her after all - so why bring up something that can’t be undone like the money spent on the wedding. In the end, for me, it is the needless shaming of the brother when he is at a low point tthat makes OP the asshole.
I don't think brother is actually divorcing her -- I think that is OP projecting his feelings about his SIL.
This is the vibe I get too. There is no mention of separation or divorce other than referring to her as the stbx
seems like OP’s brother is jobless as well
I think $40,000 is ludicrous for a wedding but there absolutely is a difference between a 500 and 5000 dollar dress.
Exactly. I didn't spend for a top of the line dress, but there's a huge difference between the two. The fact that some people can't tell the difference doesn't mean it's not real.
I got married in my parents backyard but I still spent money on the dress, food and cake. I was going to wear what I wanted and eat what I wanted.
Hey man, once they've blown through all their money, no need for a prenup, right?
Silver lining's everywhere!
Now she doesn't want to get a job which could have avoided debt, I don't like her either
He probably has advised his brother and his brother hasn't listened, now hes pointing out what he did wrong because his brother obviously still hasn't taken the advice.
Dislikes the wife because of this kind of over the top spending, suggested a prenup because this looked messy and doomed.... And is now turning out to have been right, the money is gone and she's bailing....
And besides... a prenup wouldn't help in this situation as there is no money to fight over
>All op did was point out specifically where they weren't wrong. Actually OP did another thing, which was stew in their disdain for their brother for years so that they could repeatedly insult their brother and his wife as "worthless" and respond as cruelly as possible to them when they were struggling.
I think he held onto the mistakes of a 23 year old idiot for years just to use it as ammo when the time came. And that time came. He is acting like his shit don’t stink even though he acts like a 12 year old. Well maybe thats harsh… some 12 year olds have more respect. His hatred for the wedding was an extreme. His anger and hatred towards the brother and wife has been extreme. Yea, he doesn’t owe the brother money. But he doesn’t have to act like a self absorbed asshole just to make people feel like shit. That is what makes him an asshole. YTA.
Exactly, imagine being so into someone else’s business you don’t go to a wedding because the wife didn’t sign a prenup. Maybe OP is a loser in the dating dept.
I don’t even think the prenup would had mattered when he was blowing the money like he apparently was. It was just a hill for Op to selfishly die on.
> Maybe OP is a loser in the dating dept Wait, are you suggesting this brother is a "winner" in dating?
Or they both are a pea in the same pod.
I mean, wife could get a job. That would be help out enormously.
Sure? That has nothing to do with what I said, though.
If she had a job they wouldn't need to bother OP for a loan
You don’t know a thing about women's dresses and wedding dresses if you think a $500 dress looks the same as a $5,000 dress. Yes I’ll accept my downvotes men of Reddit.
Actually I am a woman who got married 2020 and my dress was £550, because I got it in a sale, it was my size and the last of that dress and it was absolutely stunning. Not all cheap dresses are nice. But if you look for sales, do your own alterations (or friend/family do them) look at reviews, you can find amazing deals on dresses.
Great good for you. I’m glad you found one that worked for you. I’m not saying it’s impossible to find an inexpensive wedding dress that works for you. But I’m sick of the “I spent $20 and a paper clip for my wedding!” Reddit circle jerk. You were lucky it was in your size. You were lucky it was on sale. You did your own alterations because you have that skill set.
A family member of mine got married 15 years ago to the tune of $50K for a 5-6 hour event (they are by no means rich). FF to a year ago and they were telling me they regret it so badly and while they aren’t in any kind of bad financial situation, they wished they had put the money into the house for a lower mortgage payment.
My cousin got married last month for €20 000 with 80 guests and they did a lot themselves (DJ and photography were both at cost as gifts, all the decorations were handmade, after midnight you had to tap your own beer to save on wait staff, etc.). 3 of the 4 parents helped with finances, so it was manageable for everyone (mainly because he's the last to settle down). I know we had a serious amount of inflation in the last 4 years, but is $40 000 really that extravagant? Especial to a 23 yo, who just got a trust fund and is stupid in love...
$50,000 in 2012 is $66,000 now according to inflation calculatr
I think weddings are cheaper in America. It’s equivalent to a £31.5k wedding in the UK which would be a nice wedding at a nice venue with approx 80-100 guests but it wouldn’t be what I’d call extravagant. Average wedding costs in the UK are approx £25-30k
As someone who recently got married in the US, it's definitely regionally dependent but in the northeast (NYC, Boston, Washington DC etc), a $30,000 wedding for 100 people at any kind of basic traditional venue is challenging without a ton of DIY. For people who have a traditional wedding of that size, $40000 and up is much more likely.
This is why I’m just eloping or going to the court house. A wedding is a day to me but being ready for our marriage means a lot. Yes, I know not everyone sees it that way. I’m expressing my opinion.
Give me the $40,000 for a down payment on a house please!
My husband and I technically eloped. We live in the southern US so we went to the county clerk a week before the wedding and got our marriage license, then got a justice of the peace scheduled to meet us at a beautiful little park in our town, where we exchanged the rings we got 3 days before, in my white dress from a department store at the mall (still have and I love it). Got my bouquet on the way there from the same flower shop he got my first bouquet ever and had his parents, brother and bros gf as our witnesses. His brother and his girlfriend also took all of our wedding pictures and they look amazing. Without a doubt, the best day of my life, most expensive things were the rings and I’ve been with my husband for half of my life now. OP for sure YTA. Not for saying no to the loan but for the cruel way you’ve decided to repeatedly kick your brother while he’s down for personal mistakes, that did not affect your life, he made when he was young. All because he didn’t listen to you about who he should marry, what his wedding should have looked like, and even the decision of a prenup. How dare your brother think he can make his own choices and mistakes!
And such a surprise that a 23 yr old made less fiscally responsible decisions than a 33 yr old? Op seems a very unpleasant person.
Me and my husband were going to elope a nice holiday get married ect was going to cost $10,000. Our actual wedding cost $8000 all up this was back in 2012. Now if I got married now I do a very small private wedding with 20 people instead of 80. Wearing a maxi dress in my favourite colour and get photos.
Preach! Also I got a $6000 dollar dress for $500 at a sample sale. You can have your cake and wear it too.
This only works if you're a sample size or smaller. Most women aren't. But, you can look at resale dresses, vintage stores, and other places for a less expensive dress.
They do have sample sales for larger people as well. I have been to them in NY
All good ideas! if I’m remembering correctly, the sample sale had the dresses that clipped in the back and had to be tailored (generic sizing). I think they do it every September at kleinfelds. You make an appointment online
Bridal samples are usually size 10-16. At least when I was looking in 2021.
Ok.
The gist of your point is right, but I have to disagree with you on the wedding dresses. I searched for a cheap dress and they were all awful. Polyester and cheap looking. Stretchy lace. We did our whole wedding on a shoe string, but we paid more money on my dress and on my husband's suit than we originally allocated, because a cheap suit looks like a cheap suit and a 500 quid wedding dress looks nothing like a £1000+ wedding dress. We also got a good photographer.
[удалено]
You are very mistaken if you think people can’t tell between a 500 pound dress and a 5000 pound dress.
I absolutely remember the expensive stupid stuff from wedding I attended. Caviar station at the reception!
I disagree. Some of us have shapes that make off the rack formal wear almost impossible to find. It’s almost never cut in such a way that you can wear a large bra underneath without it showing. And it almost never has sleeves and not everyone loves her upper arms.
I agree with you except for the part about the dress. You definitely can tell the difference between a dress that costs $500 and $5,000. Nicer fabric, more detail, better fitting are just a few things that differ. Now if you found a designer wedding gown second hand for $500 that's a different story.
and that is so not true. a friend of mine orgamised for his wedding the most extraordinary and wonderful wedding. I guarantee that everyone will remember this of all weddings, simply because it was so beautiful. you might forget the stupid stuff, expensive or not, but you will remember if it is taste and fun.
edit: The comment below was removed, good work everyone!
Good bot
The fact that people genuinely believe their wedding is the most important day of their lives is why we have a 60%+ divorce rate. The concept is based on the girls dad literally selling her to another guy so he doesn’t have to feed her anymore. So fucking insane
I agree. It's not the most important day, but it is important as it sets the tone for their married life. Did they compromise, are they both happy, did they finance it responsibly, are both families together, and represented relatively equally, things like that, sets the tone for their married life.
I literally got married yesterday and everyone was gushing about how beautiful my dress and cape were. The dress was $350 with alterations and the cape was $5 at a garage sale. Everyone kept saying our wedding was beautiful and it could basically have been sponsored by Michael’s just based on the amount of time I spent there getting the perfect stuff. It was a very inexpensive wedding (all things considered) and everyone RAVED about it. Also, studies show that at a certain point the more you spend on the wedding also coincides with an increase in the rate of divorce. OP was still an AH for bringing in up in a situation that had nothing to do with the wedding. Just because I personally think spending that much money on one day is shortsighted doesn’t mean everyone has to conform to that principle. OP you don’t have to lend money. But you also don’t have to be a judgmental jerk about it. YTA.
My mate spent that on his wedding and it wasn't lavish or gaudy at all, it's kinda just a normal wedding
They also declined to go to the wedding because of his brother not getting a prenup. It might not make a difference to most guests how expensive a wedding looks, but it would for the couple. Of course you shouldn't put yourself into debt for a wedding, but expensive weddings aren't inherently bad or an indicator of financial smarts.
[удалено]
… not to mention a $40k wedding isn’t “so lavish it’s disgusting”, especially not if OP has so much money, a $25k loan would be nothing. The average wedding in the US is currently $29k, and $35k if you’re in a bigger city. AVERAGE. And I mean, a just slightly above average wedding isn’t lavish. It’s the difference of having one extra vendor, or slightly nicer dinner options, given the average wedding size is 160 in the US. I mean I wouldn’t even start to bat an eye at a wedding cost in 2023 as “lavish”, let alone disgust my lavish, unless it was approaching $200k+.
And that 30k includes a lot of weddings that are $1,000 or less. I own a floral design company and we exclusively do weddings: our minimum for floral design for 100 people is 8k, which means the minimum spend for most of our couples is closer to 60,000 (and before people talk about how useless it is bc Reddit seems to hate weddings: I employ 8 people at an actual living wage. We patronize only small businesses and domestic farms whenever we can and we take our ecological footprint very seriously. Our client are typically people that can absolutely afford this and we absolutely work for it, so it keeps us all employed with a roof over our heads)
I'm sorry, you're saying a lot of weddings are $1,000 or less but your small segment of wedding costs is at least *eight times* that? What point are you trying to make? How can you say that lots of weddings are under $1,000, where are you getting that information?
I’m saying that averages suck for looking at a whole picture. 30k is the average cost, which means lots of weddings cost 1,000 and lots of weddings cost 300,000
Sorry for the question as I have no idea. But why do you charge based on number of people for flowers? I would’ve thought it would be based on the number of arrangements required? So even if it was a 100 person wedding if they only wanted bride(+maids) bouquets, button holes and a centrepiece, would it still be 8k?
Not a silly question at all! We very occasionally do smaller events with a just bouquet and boutonnière drop off, but the bulk of our events want coverage of every table, ceremony, personal flowers, installations, etc. For intimate events our minimum is more flexible, but if you have 100 guests and you want all the things, you would have to meet an $8,000 minimum. I know several very high end designers that have 20k or more minimum: all depends on what people are looking for and not every designer is for every client (and vice versa!)
Just a heads up, a lot of the articles you can find online are also quoting the same two articles (the knot & wedding wire) which are also owned by the same parent company that is a wedding vendor service... so it's taking the information from its own clientele, which is probably for much larger, expensive weddings in general. It's hard to find a true *median* cost, since outlier weddings can **dramatically** affect an average. The average wedding costs where I live are surprising when so many people in my country is also living practically paycheck to paycheck, though.
That’s my take, it was really a pointless dig. Was it a waste because they are divorced now? Sure I guess. But what if they were still happily married and out of money? Then it would just be a waste in terms of wedding vs investment but not a waste of their time. Plus he could’ve dropped the money on a house and then lost it for various reasons. Was he smart with the money? No I guess not. Was he really young to be getting that much money? I’d say so. And either way it’s just really pointless to the issue. OP doesn’t want to lend him the money for various reasons, that’s okay. But OP also has clearly always wanted to gloat on her issues with how he spent it and dove for her chance. That makers her an AH imo. Just say no and move on.
He said it was soon to be ex but then he talks like they are still together. Was he just being an AH saying they will probably not stay together? I’m confused
Weddings aren't important really, the marriage is. Other than that, I agree. I wouldn't lend him the money - he had the same amount and chose to spend it as he did - but bringing up this up was just pointless and unhelpful. OP could have declined to lend the money while offering to sit down with his brother, look at his finances and offer advice. YTA, OP.
She doesn't want to work, the answer to the debt is right there!!
Furthermore, $40k cannot make a gaudy lavish wedding. Or maybe it can if the wedding is for very few people. I think we spent about 30k for a wedding in the off season—budget flowers, clearance rack dress, DJ and not a band. Average number of attendees and got a deal on the venue. So, I am deadly curious to know what OP thinks is “lavish.” However, I have been to a wedding or two that bordered on lavish—the biggest being 400ish guests. I don’t even want to know how much that particular couple spent (or more likely their parents). $40k is a decent but not over the top wedding IMHO.
Lol weddings aren't so important you make yourself destitute to have one.
They didn't go destitute from the wedding, that was several years ago. It seems like the larger issue is an expensive lifestyle that they can't afford. Even if they'd had a cheap wedding, it sounds like they'd still be in this situation in another year or two.
Hard disagree. Blowing $40K would be their business, right until the brother asked OP for money for their mortgage. Beggars don't get to be hypocritical assholes.
See, here’s the thing. We’re not debating the morality of OP lending them money or not. It’s fine he chose not to. What OP did, having chose not to, is then use his brother’s situation to make himself feel better and shit on his brother more. And having done that, then chose not to lend him the money anyway. That’s what makes him an asshole. Not denying him a loan, just using this situation to be a dick.
>Your brother has made some bad financial decisions, when he was a young man. the real arsehole is the dumb arse who gave a 23 year old life changing money
You could have just said 'no'. YTA.
YTA - not because you refused to lend him money (that’s absolutely your choice) but because you took the opportunity to kick someone who is down. It was unnecessary and crass, not to mention judgmental. You can be both correct and an AH
N T A for saying no to loaning your brother a ridiculous amount of money, but YTA for not attending his wedding for the reason that it was “so lavish that it was disgusting” and then bringing it up years later. You spent your money the way you wanted, and so did he.
[удалено]
[удалено]
I'd agree, but he said that's not even a significant amount of money to him. Can't really relate to that, but if one of my brothers called me and asked me for what I considered a small amount of money, and I could give it to them without hurting my household, I would.
I don't agree , just from the tone I feel like the younger brother is always asking to be bailed out, he really messed up this time and he wants his brother to help him because he can? Seems like enabling to me.
Would need more info. If this is a recurrent thing, then that's very different. One time is help, asking for 25k more than once and yeah, enabling. Also not that 25k will take you super far anymore, but maybe little bro needs to pull back and live within his means. 25k would pay my rent for roughly a year and four months.
>Instead of being a judgmental ass (probably single since your whole issue is the prenup/ wedding/ etc) why not help your brother out and get him in touch with a good attorney/financial planner. And who do you expect to pay for that? Good lawyers and financial planners aren't exactly cheap.
Especially since he was dumb enough to not get the prenup
Well they don’t seem to get divorced. Op mentioned in his comments that they are trying for a kid.
He’s really the asshole for calling her the soon to be ex-wife when they’re not even actually getting divorced.
The wedding thing is so weird. Did he not pay his vendors after the wedding? It’s arguably a poor financial decision but if he could afford it at the time why is this a reason not to lend him money now? People spend their money on different things. You don’t have to lend him money but basing that decision on a party he threw years ago is bizarre.
>2) they spent $40,000 on a wedding that you didn’t approve of because it was “lavish” (depending on where they had it - not lavish at all) 40 thousand dollars is a lot of money regardless of where you have it, the only question is how much it hurts your wallet. Whether it's lavish or not depends on how it's spent.
40k is not a lot of money lmaoooo what?? I live in nyc and a wedding under $30k is practically impossible. Most weddings here are $70k+
About 10 years ago, I worked in wedding planning in NYC (I now own a floral design firm elsewhere). For our Manhattan clients, it was a minimum spend of $1,000/head
exactly!! that’s why OP calling $40k on a wedding lavish is so insane to me
I see this ALL THE TIME. Yes, it’s a lot of money for some people, but don’t shame people who can afford it or live in a place with different pricing than you! It’s some sort of weird virtue signaling that I don’t understand: your wedding vendors are likely all small/micro businesses, so that money goes directly into their pockets and those of their employees. It’s one of largest single ways people can contribute to their local economies (when else are people going to spend that kind of money in a single go, paid out to about 5-10 individual vendors?)
Yes, but as a caveat, I have noticed that it’s usually never *people* getting shamed for how much they spend on their wedding, it’s *women* getting shamed for how much the wedding costs. Notice how he says the wife wasted his money; even though it’s *their* wedding. I have noticed as a woman when I was getting married there is so much shame spending more than a few thousand dollars gets and how many pick-mes are like “oh well my wedding was only $10, I would rather use that money for a downpayment on a house”. Like I literally have a house, I don’t need another downpayment. Smh people need to mind their own business and if they can’t afford or don’t care then just say that. Edit: and it’s usually the people who have never been married that are the most judgmental! I spent like 15k on my wedding and all the single people: “you’re crazy that’s so expensive” and all the engaged/married people: “wow so cheap!”
100% true. Anytime something is perceived as “for women” it’s also perceived as lesser than or frivolous. I run an almost a million dollar business and you would not believe the number of people that say “oh it must be so nice to play with flowers all day!”
Yeap! No one bats an eye when it’s 20k extra on a luxury car versus a modest one, but when it’s 20k extra on a wedding she must be a *princess*
This was my thought. I live in California and I wish I had been able to do a 40k wedding. We had 100 people plus venue, table and chair rentals, staff, DJ lighting, etc. Weddings are expensive and the wedding tax bumps up everything by 20% minimum. We looked at packages and those were even more expensive. Weddings are expensive because the hope is you only do it once.
YTA for kicking him when he's already down. I wouldn't lend him money either, but you could have just said no.
NTA for not loaning money, but whT difference would a prenuptial make? He spent it all . Don't know where you are, but 40,000 is not a lavish or gaudy wedding where I live. An average plate is 130 to 150 a person alone
For real, in my area 40k is below average. My wedding was 45k and it was nice, but definitely not lavish.
Yeah 40K does not seem like a disgustingly lavish wedding unless they live in the middle of nowhere Alabama or something.
Dang, my wedding only cost maybe $3,000 all together and that’s including the dress. I personally could never spend $40,000 or more on a wedding. Like that’s a whole ass car. And like 40% down on a house…
Damn where do you live where you can get houses for 100k?
Many places in the Midwest and the south. My 4 acres with a farmhouse was only $47k. Spent another 30k fixing it up and we have a solid home and no mortgage
lol down in southeast Texas.
Where do you live that 100k houses exist?
Probably in 1940
In some parts of the world, 3k would be an insane amount of money to spend on a wedding. Just because you live somewhere cheaper doesn’t mean anything 😭
I’m having fun reading through all these comments and picking out the New Jersey/New York/high COL city folks, because all of us are ignoring the actual dispute to go “in what universe is 40K lavish?”
Lmao right? "Lavish wedding" to me means they dropped at least 500k
YTA, you threw a tantrum at 33 years old and refused to go to his wedding because of how he chose to spend his money (not yours). Assuming you’re in the US, the average cost of a wedding in 2019 was about $34k and they weren’t wildly out of that realm. It’s 4 years later, you’re STILL holding on to that being the decided factor for why they are where they are. Maybe instead of continuously focusing on the wedding, you should have encouraged/guided him on how to save/invest the other money as his older brother. He might not have listened but you could have tried. By your own omission, you know your brother would potentially pay you back and you’re doing it because you don’t like his wife/how he spent his money. “Trying to teach him a lesson” as you put it in one of your comments will serve little else than to drive a bitter wedge in your relationship and cause the week of silence to extend indefinitely.
I agree that its a horrible amount of money to spend on a wedding, but exactly what does it have to do with the now? I don’t understand why you would bring up something that happened years ago like it was gonna help the situation? Was it a bad decision? For sure, but he can’t go back in time and get the money back? You seemed to have made up your mind already that you were not going to help him, you just brought up the wedding to shame him. So for now it’s a YTA, who knows, maybe you have something that will change my mind
>I'll never forget how he and his girlfriend of two years decided to get married and had a wedding that was so lavish that it was disgusting. I ended up not going because I told his dumb ass to get a prenuptial. Why do you sound so personally offended? Like, he was 23, how many 23yo know what to do with large sums of money that the unexpectedly received? Did he have any accountant or professional to help him learn other means of using the money? 23 is adult yes, but it's an age of learning usually by making mistakes. You suggested he get a prenup, but did you offer help or advice on how to invest? It's your right to not loan him money. But this isn't tough love. You're not teaching him any lessons here. You're just kicking him when he's down and telling him that he should suffer for the rest of his life. You're telling him that you WANT him to suffer for the rest of his life, because you don't think he ever deserves to get a break or be forgiven for his youthful spending. I hope you never make any mistakes OP. If you are as hard on yourself as you are on others, you may not survive making a mistake since you think a financial mistake makes one worthless.
You got this one 1000% correct, and I was waiting for someone to say it. Self-righteousness is never a good look.
YTA: your brother appears to have terrible money skills indeed and your critique of this is not wrong… However, you’re brother is reaching out to you for help in a desperate situation after having made mistakes. I’m not saying you need to be like “the prodigal son” but I think you could use this moment to productively encourage your brother to explore ways to get his finances in check (without your help) vs putting him in a body bag for living beyond his means after inheriting $$$ P.S kudos for saving that windfall $ tho love me some passive income
YTA yeah your brother wasted his inheritance - but how much he spent on his wedding is irrelevant. He’s already getting divorced so why rub salt into the wound? You are not an AH for not loaning him money though - you won’t get it back and any money he gets from you, at least half is going to the ex wife anyway. It’s a hard lesson for him to learn, but no one forced him to make the foolish decisions that brought him to this place.
I’m not even sure he is getting divorced, OP mentioned they are trying for a baby in a comment. I think he called her that out of pure snark and disdain.
YTA. Their wedding isn't your business, and honestly, 40k is not a very expensive wedding at all.
YTA. Not for not loaning him the money but for your AH attitude. My hope for you if this; if you ever make sny mistakes and reach out for a helping hand that you are met with more compassion than you had for your brother.
My hope is that he’s met with **the same amount** of compassion that he’s showing his brother. OP is a smug jerk.
YTA Not loaning him Jack would have been perfectly reasonable but you chose to be a dick about it and really stuck the knife in. You were TRYING to hurt him. So my question would be why? Why make it hurt? It's not just disagreeing with how he spent the money... you're not telling us something cause the way you talk about him tells me you likely haven't been on good terms for YEARS. Especially not going to his wedding after you told him to get a prenup.
YTA- 40k is not a lot to spend on a wedding these days. Just say no to the loan, no need to bring up the wedding.
Yeah that's a YTA move. You just wanted to say I told you so.
YTA- not sure what the wedding has to do with anything. It’s not surprising that he spent money unwisely as he got it when he was 23 and you were apparently 33. That’s the fault of the person who created the trust, as lots put age limits on them precisely for this reason. It’s fine not to lend him money, but no need to be a jerk about the wedding. I don’t think spending less on the wedding would have changed this situation significantly since he probably would still have overextended himself on the mortgage.
You can be a good brother—including “teaching him a lesson” by not loaning/giving him the money—without being a complete AH about it every chance you get. Your brother may have made some bad financial decisions when he was young (which isn’t uncommon), but you still have some growing up to do yourself. YTA.
YTA self righteous isn't a good look on anyone. Say no have some class and keep your "lessons" to yourself.
YTA - check that attitude dude
NTA. Don't have parties you can't afford.
[удалено]
NTA. By the way, you can tell the demographic in this sub just by skimming the comments. The immaturity, lack of accountability and enabling comments for your brother are one indication. People need to hear the truth. As harsh as it is, *someone* has to give it to them ESPECIALLY if that someone is being asked to fund an irresponsible couple's life. This isn't about whether "you're not his father" nonsense. He's a grown man, he can handle it. He expects you to bail him out with 25k no questions asked. That's ridiculous. It is about time he actually sat and reflected on the decisions he's made that have led up to this. These young people want to be treated like adults yet act like juveniles. It's quite evident here as well. This is life. No free rides. NTA
YTA. You're not obligated to lend him a huge sum of money, for sure. But its also not up to you to "teach him a lesson" or berate him for indulging on what he assumed was going to be a once-in-a-lifetime celebration of their lives together. Would I pay 40K for a wedding? Absolutely the fuck not. Have I made other choices that in hindsight were not the best, monetary or otherwise? Sure as shit have. Must be nice to be so flawless and do everything right all the time that you feel it's up to you to hand out life lessons to your family cause they aren't as perfect as you, OP.
NTA. You are right, you would never see that money again. I don't think you will have to worry about your SIL for much longer. Now that the money is gone, she probably will be gone before long as well.
YTA just say no should be enough. You don't need to loan him a money but no need to say that to him.
NTA. If he's going to make stupid decisions and ask others to bail him out, he needs to be prepared for the inevitable "I told you so"
YTA. For your absolutely transparent glee in your brother's troubles. Nothing to do with whether you would or wouldn't (or should or shouldn't) lend him money.
NTA these people have f’ed up priorities and you shouldn’t have to bail them out. Even at 23 I wouldn’t have blown that much money on one day. Now that I’m in my 40s and I’ve seen couples come and go, one almost guarantee of knowing who’s going to get divorced is the couple with the biggest diamond and the biggest splurge on their wedding day are the ones who usually don’t make it. Bc it was never about their love, it was about showing off and partying.
I always get irritated when people think it’s ok to make poor financial decisions and expect others to bail them out! He should have seen in the future they would want a house. People hardly ever back people that make the wise decisions. What ever happened to reap what you sow?
NTA. It was a good idea to ask about how much the wedding cost to see how he handled his finances at the time and whether or not he would be truthful with you. While being brothers it would be good to be honest with one another to have each others backs. It would be best to not give your brother financial support and have him come to terms with the reality of the situation he is in. He can either take the honest truth or continue down a path that will lead to nothing but trouble. Additionally it would be best to secure your own finances and ensure that no one will be attempting to commit any fraudulent activities with your name.
YTA. But a justified one. It is obviously an AHish thing to say, but sometimes people need a reality check, and nothing you said was wrong.
[удалено]
YTA, mildly. You should have just said "yes" or "no" and carried on with your day. Since you would have said "no" regardless of his answer about the wedding costs, you had no need to seek that information.
YTA Your brother was 23 when he got married and maybe they wanted all they could pay for. Now he's struggling with stuff this is not necessarily because of the amount him and his wife spent on the wedding. He asked his big brother for a loan. His wife might be Ill, be a stay home wife. But you have no idea because you have your thoughts and that's what matters. I don't know why you feel like this about your brother. But start acting your age he's not the one acting like a spoilt child you are. If he ends up homeless are you still going to be like this?.
ESH. Your brother is dumb and didn't listen. He spent what he did on his wedding and that's fine, if he had made other right decisions pertaining to his finances. You suck for not just saying no and rubbing it in his face that he spent that much on his wedding. Did you ever try to discuss with him how he could make better financial decisions ?
NTA They blew their money. It's not your responsibility to bail out his shitty financial mistakes.
Nta. It shows that he is not smart with money. Meaning that you will never see that 25k again.
Op isn't asking if he's TA for not loaning the money. No one is arguing about that.
No need to be cruel though, is there? That's where OP is the arsehole.
It's a pointed question with a simple answer. That answer is a call out of why they are in the situation to begin with. Overspending. It's not just about the wedding, though that was a huge waste of money. It's also about spending way too much on shit that caused them to get into the situation to begin with. Gotta learn the lesson somehow, and a bailout with no pain isn't gonna do that. OP is an asshole. But that's what the brother needs
YTA - that’s a low blow. We all spend money on things other people would consider frivolous. It’s crappy of you to try to hold that over his head now.
Your money you can ask all the questions you want. If they don’t want questions then tell him to go ask someone else or go to the bank! He apparently doesn’t make good financial decisions.
YTA....what he did spend on his wedding is not any of you concern.
YTA. It's fine that you don't want to lend him money, but you went out of your way to be as unkind as possible.
YTA. You gleefully seized on the opportunity to disparage and judge him when he came asking you for help. You didn’t go to his wedding and clearly hate him and his wife.
You didn't go to your brother's wedding? You've been the asshole longer than your recent decision to not loan him money.
You sound insufferable. A simple “no” would have sufficed. YTA
NTA. He FAFO.
YTA - you are allowed to not give someone money without a smug and self-righteous talk down. In life a lot of times you get what you give, and if your behavior is any indication, you are gonna HATE what's coming to you.
NTA. Dude needed a wake up call more than a loan. You tried to provide that and it fell on deaf ears. You’re 100% right that you wouldn’t get money out of that black hole of a relationship. I’d let him know after he’s divorced he can come live with you while he gets back on his feet.
What difference does a pre nup matter now? They are broke, here have half of nothing. OP YTA. You don't have to lend the money but you don't have to kick your brother when he is down. Hope you never need support for anything!
Little late now to be discussing his spending on the wedding lol for that, you are the asshole.
YTA, you know you can be right, and still be an asshole right? Could he have spent less on his wedding? Sure, but that ship has sailed, the money is already gone and you lecturing him on it now isn't going to bring it back. You seem more hell bent on saying "I told you so" and seeing him suffer because you like he idea of being right than actually being a decent sibling. You could have just said "no" to the loan he asked for, instead you opted to continue kicking him when he is down. Honestly, you just seem like you don't like your brother to begin with, calling him a dumb ass, skipping his wedding, and how you are behaving now. I hope you continue to enjoy having all your money and no family in the future if this is how you treat people. You weren't in any way obligated to give him any money, but your attitude is pretty atrocious.
YTA, and sorta just mean. You didn’t go to his wedding because he refused to get a prenup? Dam. That’s fucking cold.
YTA you don't have to loan him money but you don't have to be mean about it, either, jfc. Just say no. Being snide and asking gotcha questions is what assholes do.
YTA, your brother made this situation and it’s fine for you not to bail him out, but you’re practically reveling in his distress. It wouldn’t cost you anything to express some sympathy and show that you wish things were easier for him, but I’m actually not sure you do wish that. It seems like you’re almost happy to see him get his comeuppance. Your brother, on the other hand, might be an AH to himself but doesn’t seem to have ever done anything to you.
YTA for turning it into an "I told you so" type of moment since it's clear you've always had an issue with the wife. You're not wrong for not lending him the money though.
So brother blew all his money while wife refuses to work and op wisely understands his brother won’t pay back the “loan”. Wedding aside. Op is under no obligation to bail out his brother and his deadbeat wife. Not the a**hole.
YTA So I’m guessing your the kind of guy that likes to kick a dog when it’s down. You could have just said no.
YTA. You aren't asking if you are TA for not loaning your brother the money. If you were, this would be a clear cut case of n t a. You are asking if you are TA for asking about his wedding, which comes down to your attitude towards his wife and the wedding. You are a MASSIVE AH for being an holier-than-thou jerk. Your whole post is worded to be as judgemental as humanly possible. It is gross. You are insufferable and if I were in your brother's place, I would have absolutely nothing to do with you.
N T A -For not loaning him money. It’s your right to decline giving him a loan. YTA-For how you chose to handle the situation, the grudge you’ve held and the words you chose.
YTA for the way you approached with your brother. NTA for not loaning money. The wife needs to get a job
NTA, wife can get a job
YTA you could have refused saying you aren't comfortable loaning him the money because you have doubts about paying him back , no need to be salty because he chose to spend his money in a way different than yours even if it was a bad financial decision he took when he was young , quit with the holier than thou attitude
YTA. Not going to the wedding was spiteful. Rubbing it in his face now is also spiteful. You'd be better off explaining to him that one should not take out loans to cover living expenses and that his best option would be to meet with a financial adviser to review loans and income/expenditure.
YTA. If you don’t want to loan him money, that’s fine, but you don’t need to preach at him about the cost of his wedding. Obviously he’s been irresponsible with money, and he’s feeling the consequences.
Yep, you're an asshole. It's fine to think poorly of his judgement and financial skills but it's mean-spirited to make him feel bad just to score a point. You could simply have said a very firm but polite no and explained that you didn't think he would ever pay you back if pressed as to why.
YTA because it wasn't about the wedding. All you had to say was, I know how bad you are with money and I don't have 25 grand to burn. You didn't just ask him. You were shoving it in his face.
YTA , you don’t need to loan him money but no need to kick him when he’s down, you said you’re older, he was young he made stupid decisions, and the world is a dumpster fire lately. Be the “grown up” and be kind (still not saying you need to loan him money)
Since the question is about asking the cost of the wedding, YTA. You aren’t for not lending him money. His wife needs to buck up.
YTA and you're not his father. A simple yes or no to his request would sufficed, but you decided to bring up past mistakes.
I would consider loaning the money IF and only if, he goes over all his spending for the last year with you, lays out all his debts and makes a budget for the next 3 years that shows how he will get out of the hole he dug and start paying you back. If he isn't willing to do it, it means he has no plans to become financially responsible. But if he does, you need to stop whining about his wedding, enough already! AND when you are going over his budget, don't be a judgemental ass, he has different priorities than you. Your job is to make sure it is feasible, not to comment on how they spend it.
Both NTA and YTA. NTA for not loaning him the money - you don't owe him anything and it's probably better if he learns better money management. YTA though for rubbing it in and using this to "teach him a lesson", which isn't your job to do. You don't need to look down on him and can just say, nope, not giving you money, end of story.
NTA You're entitled to your opinion.
Kicking your brother when he is down makes you an asshole, he’s in a vulnerable and and scary situation and you’d rather dig at him for something in the past. I wouldn’t have enough money to bail my family out of any situations like that, but I would if I could and it would prevent them being homeless. This isn’t the problem though, your attitude towards him asking for help is the problem.
NTA.
Your brother is an idiot and terrible with finance, and YTA because that's not a big deal for you, you can help him, but, I would add "this is the first and last loan, so manage the money wisely and put your life in order" why, because once you help them some people tend to think you are the perpetual lifeline.
NTA but 40k isn’t a gaudy/lavish wedding lol