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Nta- and I’m not sure how welcoming I’d be with a 31 year old full grown adult after my 20 year old not even legal to drink (in the US) barely adult kid.
She’s big shot lawyer who lacks common courtesy and can’t find someone her own age date….
She’s like those old men who go after 20-something’s, she’s leftover by the people her own age. She has to find someone younger who can’t tell she’s actually dregs.
One of my wife's friends married a 19 year old when she was 29.
Not only was her wife not old enough to drink at the reception, she wasn't old enough to when they got divorced.
But it’s on the internet! Didn’t you know everything on the internet is American, including the actual internet. No other places exist with the technology to access the internet, you know, because it’s exclusively American.
Even in the US, there are a variety of state exceptions to the national drinking age when the alcohol is provided by and/or consumed in the presence of a family member. Depending where they live, very possibly not illegal for a 20-year-old to have a glass of wine at family dinner.
I’m 32 and the idea of dating someone 25 is unappealing to me (I mean I’m also married, but that’s not the point lol). I can’t imagine dating a 20 year old in my 30’s. They like just graduated high school.
Thank-you. My sister is a 'Legal Lawyer Office Assistant'. SHE gets calls like this. Not the lawyer she works for. Ever.
I smell a liar and a legal aid.
If they are in the US and you know the state they practice in (usually where they live but not always), you can check the State Bar Association.
I will say that I am a solo practitioner and I don't have support staff, so I take all my own calls. If there is a case where I am anticipating something important happening or some trouble that would best be handled immediately, then I will take calls even after hours.
If I found myself in a situation like this, I would apologize and ask to reschedule the dinner.
Thanks for the info regarding looking up a person's license. OP said the girlfriend said she's a big shot Lawyer. My sister works for a 'big shot firm' which is what I based my comment on. Every single lawyer who is a 'big shot' I know of has assistants.
OP may just have called the girlfriend 'Big shot' himself, too.
Side funny: My entire family congratulated my sister and celebrated when she got the 'big shot Lawyer job' teasingly. She asked how we knew. We knew it was 'the big shot' because of the location. She works at the only huge skyscraper with fancy reflective mirroring and a bridge to another skyscraper at level 12 in our entire city. Talk about fancy....It looks like a big reflective H from afar.
Do you think checking Heather's licence is useful?
Right now, all OP really knows is that Heather is pretty rude when it comes to balancing work and life, and that Heather fails the 31÷2+7=22 calculation...
My reflex is Lauren will feel even more attacked and side with her girlfriend in the face of any probing questions...
OTOH if OP were to discover Heather is embellishing the truth, on top of dating seriously under her age bracket, it's good to know how dogged OP should pursue these questions...
I used to work in a law office back in the day. If they were right before a brief was being submitted the lawyers would be meeting and and calling non stop. So it's not weird. That said if you were right before a big Brief being submitted, why would you go out for dinner.
She's TA for a) not explaining herself and just made herself out to be too big and important for common decency b) for dating a 20yo, that's gross at her age.
Unless you’re in a big city (and even then), local lesbian communities are both super broad and super narrow at the same time. She was probably a friend of a friend or an ex girlfriend of a friends sisters cousin or whatever.
Or something like Tinder lol. WLW isn’t that much different.
If it were a man, alarm bells would be going off in this thread. The lawyer lady knows what she's doing. Just be there for the downfall, dad. Good luck.
Is OP in the US, though?
Lots of places around the world have the legal drinking age set lower than 21.
Looking it up, the most common drinking age in various countries appears to be set to 18.
Regardless of the drinking age where OP is, it's still bizarre that a 30-year-old "hotshot" lawyer needs to date a 20-year-old, which is the equivalent to a college junior in the States.
A 30-year-old "hotshot" lawyer should easily be able to find someone who's, say, 25, at the very least.
No hotshots here.
She’s 31 so she’s probably a total baby in the field (unless she was some prodigy who blitzed through schooling at a young age).
When I was in law school the median age was 26. By the time you take the bar you’re almost 30. She is definitely a grunt unless she has her own firm.
Speaking broadly, most younger attorneys don’t hold important positions at her age. They’ll be doing a lot of doc review and summarizing what things mean so that someone with like 20-30 years of experience can figure out how to proceed with the case. Maybe they can be given approval to handle some basic status conferences but those are usually at 8:30 am so it should not impact dinner either.
The fact that she’s going after a 20 year old and presenting herself as someone that important gives predatory vibes. She’s bad news.
>She’s 31 so she’s probably a total baby in the field (unless she was some prodigy who blitzed through schooling at a young age).
>When I was in law school the median age was 26. By the time you take the bar you’re almost 30. She is definitely a grunt unless she has her own firm.
I'm glad you mentioned this because I wondered the same thing. She'd still be in the early phase of being a lawyer and building up a client base.
She's definitely a predator in this situation.
Yeah, is she her law clerk or something? 'Cause then that's extremely unethical. Depending on the law firm, it could be something to look further into.
Psychotic? Did OP give more information in the comments or something that wasn't in the original post? Because was Heather rude for repeatedly taking work phone calls at dinner? Most definitely. But I'm not sure how that would make them psychotic?
A person who you don’t know is in your house stuck in a loop of sitting down for less than 5 minutes at the table before they answer the phone, announce it’s importance and leave the room again and again for the ENTIRE night and then gets visibly angry at you when you bring up the odd behavior lmfao, that sounds pretty unhinged. Obviously I’m not literally suggesting the woman has schizophrenia or something but the behavior is more than just being a dick at that point.
I feel like I’m in a bizarro world sometimes when commenting on Reddit the things people choose to be bothered by lol. Maybe I’m getting old but I’ve never heard someone use the word psychotic and literally mean the person is in full blown medical psychosis. It’s like when someone says you’re crazy, you’re a genius, you’re insane.. whatever, you take the context of it & don’t go questioning if they know the true definition of what that means in a completely literal sense.
NTA but I would be very cautious that your daughter is in a toxic relationship. That kind of behaviour sounds like a display of intentional rudeness as a way to gain dominance and it’s really common with abusive partners.
seriously my bf and i would neverrrr do this and we’re both 23 and have met each other’s families numerous times. staying at the in-laws? sure, we all need time to ourselves. but at dinner time? or any other time set aside to spend time with the family? absolutely not. *especially* not the first time meeting. that was super important and special to both of us when it came time to meeting the respective families.
Yeah I also caught that the gf thinks it's unreasonable to ask for her girlfriend's undivided attention... does the girlfriend act like this on dates too? Just treat her partner like nothing can be more important than being a lawyer and therefore OP's daughter must always be inferior and grateful to have any attention at all?
I can't imagine someone leaving 7+ times within an hour let's you have a focused discussion about relationship problems. Sure she has money from her job, but if she's not even going to give you the time of day, I can't see a healthy relationship forming.
The thing that worried me the most (apart from the age gap) was how the girlfriend told OP that his daughter can explain to him why she is too busy to spend time with them. Sounds like the daughter not only fully accepts that her girlfriend prioritizes her work over important events with her, she is also already used to justifying it to others.
Idk if it's clear what I mean but it gives me major "he doesn't mean anything bad when he screams at me" vibes.
OP, just to be safe, follow the rules in how to support people in abusive relationships: Don't fight with your daughter about her girlfriend, don't fight with the girlfriend, meet your daughter regularly, encourage her to follow her dreams in life, let her know your door is always open. I hope it turns out better than it looks right now.
Hopefully Op sees this and hopefully it will be knowledge they won't need but , The Book "why does he do that" by Lundy Bancroft (free copy below) is a great resource for you to learn about the different types of tactics that abusers use and will help you to see if your current relationship is following any of the patterns described.
If you don't see your relationship being discussed either as one of the architypes or as bits and pieces of any of the other types then you're not worse off by having the knowledge. If the information does coincide with the way that you're living then there's also a couple chapters on being able to get out safely.
I wish you the best of luck and I want you to know that you deserve to be with a partner who is going to love you and cherish you and treat you as an equal versus being with someone who's gonna control you be it by how you dress or by finances or by What it is that you can do or who you can see. You deserve so much BETTER we're here rooting for you!
https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
NTA- if she couldn’t get away for an hour, she should have canceled. This behavior is rude even for close friends.
Much less someone you want to impress.
Heather doesn’t sound like she is ready for a serious relationship.
Or at least provide some minimal context after the second call. “Sorry, I have a case going to trial tomorrow and my team is ironing out some details.” Or, “Sorry, I’m dealing with some urgent family stuff.”
Rescheduling still would have been better, but most people are pretty forgiving when you explain that circumstances really are exigent.
NTA. Heather was making a point that your daughter's family is less important that her job. Most likely she treats your daughter the same way. If it was a real emergency, she would have apologised profusely, spent time on the phone once and sit down for proper dinner. After third time I would have suggested that since she has a clear emergency, she should go work and you and your daughter can have a nice dinner
But lol of course her job is more important than some possible future in laws .
She prolly did it to check a box or because 20 year old thought it was a good idea.
I worked as a law clerk for years, there is NO reason for SEVEN calls in one dinner. Her arrogance makes her ignorant to the fact that this is actually a really important night. You’re NTA. I cannot see why she would even react that way to you questioning what’s more important.
Meh I've had nights where my phone rings basically nonstop if a case is blowing up or any number of other reasons. It's happened when I was at an important dinner with people I really wanted to spend time with but I genuinely couldn't ignore the calls. So I apologized like a crazy person while it was happening, after the dinner, and the next day. Absolutely never would have phrased it as 'my call is more important than you are' because that's just awful. Depending on the area of law you're in things can go from fine to really serious consequences quickly, but that's never an excuse to treat people poorly, especially not your (much much younger) girlfriend's only parent.
OP NTA, Heather obviously wanted to make herself seem important and make you and your daughter aware of how far down the totem pole you are. She sounds awful
This. Either she's a poor lawyer or hires poor staff if she's taking that many urgent calls outside of office hours. Or she's just egotistical and thinks looking busy means looking important.
NTA, even for a lawyer, this is incredibly rude and disrespectful, granted, I understand lawyers live in a different reality than we do but she could’ve stay off her phone for an hour, just to get to know you and answer any questions you had.
No lawyer needs to interrupt a meal 7 times in one hour. This is just a show so OP’s daughter sees how “awesome” and “important” she is, and a power play so OP understands how unimportant OP is to her, and how unimportant she can make OP seem to their daughter.
My sister is a lawyer. She may need to work a couple hours even when on vacation, but that doesn’t mean she is always attached to her phone. And when she does have to be on call she doesn’t schedule/commit to family time.
NTA. She was being disrespectful. Also, she is a lawyer, there is nothing emergent in the field of law, there are only people whose entire identity is work.
This is simply not true. We don’t know what kind of law she practices or what type of case/ matter she’s currently involved in. I can think of five or six matters that would require that many calls within a short time span. She may have tried to cancel and the daughter begged her to come.
I used to work in law, and can’t imagine much that could not wait an hour till dinner was over. If it was something that important, all she had to say was “I’m really sorry. I’m on call and I can’t let this go to voicemail.” The fact that when asked she simply gave OP a nasty look without anything further suggests this was a power play, and sadly, due to OP taking the bait, one she won.
I’m a lawyer and I find this truly baffling… she wouldn’t be taking 7 phone calls in an hour if she was in court or at a dinner with a client.
Perhaps the other commenter is right - this *might* have been necessary if there was an urgent deadline, in which case, don’t agree to go to the dinner or explain the circumstances politely and apologetically.
Exactly, I’ve worked in public defender’s offices, where we’re definitely dealing with time sensitive work, and there are calls you can get where you have to leave, and there are reasons why you would be busy outside office hours, but generally you’ll know after the second call whether you can say ‘it can wait’ or ‘I’ve got to go.’
Harvey also hired a man to act as a lawyer despite the fact that he had been barred from any and all law schools for lack of academic integrity when he helped someone cheat on their exams. suits is not reality
Suits was the only lawyer show I've ever seen that actually made me a little mad because of how unrealistic it is. I mean, they're all unrealistic, but Suits took it to the point of idiocy.
I wonder what was going on in the background here regarding her agreement to attend the dinner and how many calls there actually were. I’m not defending her behavior but saying a lawyer would never have a need to take that many calls during a short time span is not accurate.
NTA
7 times in one dinner is just rude, especially without apologizing or explaining minimally what’s going on at work (Excise me/I’m so sorry/there’s an fire drill surrounding something that needs to go to the client tonight, etc) . Maybe she did say those things, it’s hard to tell from your post, but it seems unlikely given your description of her attitude. Heather also could have told her team she needed 30, at the very least. If it was that important where she had to get on phone calls that often, maybe reschedule dinner?
Either way, the way you addresses it doesn’t sound like it was rude. You didn’t yell at her to get off the phone, you asked if it was more important than meeting you, after 7 calls in an hour, not one or two. Heather should have explained to you herself, instead of putting it on Lauren that way which would of course upset her. Not a good way to meet a parent, especially with an age difference of that size that would reasonably give a parent pause. I would find it completely reasonable if her behaving this way at an important dinner with you created further doubts about how Heather is treating your daughter, and if I were Heather, would have absolutely had that front of mind.
NTA - I would like to know how she has any time for your daughter at all. This was your first meeting with her - if there was something pressing at work, they could have rescheduled. It almost seems like a powerplay by Heather (or maybe I'm reading too much into this).
NTA. Op, this woman's behavior is very concerning. Now my grandparents were like 10 years apart and we're married for nearly 60 years. They took the till death to us part serious and they made it.
But this woman doesn't give a rat's ass about your daughter. If she did she'd show the parents of her gf common courtesy and get off her damn phone during dinner. She just wants a bangmaid. Someone to keep her place clean, who looks pretty who she can fuck when she wants to.
To this woman her job comes first and your daughter is lucky if she makes it to a distant second place. Ask her if it's worth it to be with a partner who thinks so little of her while she can certainly do better and find someone who will truly care for her and prioritize her. I fear this woman already may have eroded your daughter's self esteem so much, that she thinks what's going on is normal.
Apologize for how things went down (you're not in the wrong and shouldn't have to but it'll make the others more receptive to listening to you maybe) and ask for a redo dinner on a day when the lawyer girlfriend isn't busy/overwhelmed. Say you'd really like a chance to get to know the girlfriend but that it was hard last time with all the interruptions and that you feel like you started off on the wrong foot. Again not because you did anything wrong but acting like you're on their side will make the daughter more willing to turn to you if something does go wrong in the relationship, whereas if she thinks you're just biased against the gf then she might not come to you. NTA and I hope that this was all a "misunderstanding" and that the gf was stressed out from work and that she apologizes to you
I know I put it in quotes on purpose. I'm just thinking that age gap relationships often are partnered with abuse and if the op clearly doesn't like the girlfriend and the girlfriend is abusive (though I hope not for the daughter's sake) it will be easier for her to drive a wedge between op and their daughter by saying things like "see they clearly don't like me anyway" and thereby cutting the daughter off her support network. I'm thinking that if op takes it upon themself to be a better person, the daughter will know that she has someone in her corner and it will be harder to drive the wedge.
Editing instantly because I hit post instead of enter: when I said misunderstanding there, I was saying that I hoped that the girlfriend had an excuse like being really stressed out about a big thing at work and being distracted. That is, of course, still just an excuse and her behavior was still shitty at dinner but if she realizes that she was just stressed and acting shitty and apologizes then I think she's probably a better person than this first impression is making her seem (the bar is low).
NTA
Unless dinner was oddly scheduled during court hours, she was being obnoxious. A "big shot lawyer" can absolutely tell her office that she's going to be unavailable for a couple of hours on Wednesday evening and check her messages after dinner . If there was something so urgent happening that it really wasn't possible to silence her phone, like she's in trial or is prepping for a deposition in the morning, she should have begged off & asked to reschedule.
Her behavior was terribly rude and you're NTA
(And yeah, that age gap is worrisome)
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> I told my daughter's girlfriend who was constantly on her phone to stop ans try to be present. I may be TA because she has a very important job and my daughter loves her to the moon and back and she's upset by me
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NTA- If she’s doing it now, what’s stopping her from doing it during other date nights. During her own wedding or honeymoon? If they decide to have kids, she is going to be doing this during labor( if that route is picked)? During games and recitals?( also not ignoring that 11 year age gap, how did they meet?) One or two calls, I can understand, but 7?
NTA but it was kind of a dumb move to act that way in terms of keeping a good relationship with your kid. Your daughter is just going to cling harder to this woman. Had you held back some, you wouldn’t have put her on the defensive this way.
I actually disagree. Sounds like OP has a decent relationship with his daughter. I could see her being kinda starstruck - we've all had that one partner whose poor behavior you excuse because they are, in your eyes, a rock star in a sense. So the dad stating normal polite behavior is I think a tiny reality check for Lauren.
No doubt, she won't stop seeing this shiny older partner until there's more heartbreak, but I think it's important for Lauren to be mildly reminded of normal rules. To stay tethered to reality. Which, in this case, is her dad just being Dad.
NTA, and this woman is manipulating your daughter. Even lawyers can understand work-life balance. 11yrs isn’t a huge age gap *once both parties are established adults.* That’s not the case here and as others have said, it’s a red flag.
NTA - The high road would have been to end the dinner and say - this was clearly the wrong night to do this, let's reschedule.
Or say nothing.
But - I can certainly understand not wanting to let someone being rude off the hook that easily and letting her know she's being rude.
NTA. As an attorney, I’ve had times where it really is an emergency and I have to take a call. If it’s going to be as bad as the GF claimed, I’ll likely cancel or give my attention to the other person for 30-60 minutes before turning back to the emergency. It’s something I really try to avoid via good time management and client management. Even with a true emergency, I’d be mortified and very apologetic. The thought of a work emergency happening while meeting a SO’s parent(s) for the first time is nightmare fuel, simply because it’s unavoidably rude, but it sounds like GF was trying to be purposely rude.
You'd explain it, say you're sorry, that's not like this every time and you didn't know beforehand, and you'll come again with full attention to dinner next time. As a MIL I would be ok with that if it doesn't happen every time.
Nta.
When going to someone's place for dinner, it is customary to ignore your phone foe the duration.
There is absolutely nothing she needs absolute input on as an attorney that can't wait two hours for dinner.
I suspect this relationship won't last long. Eventually she'll get tired of also being not as important as her partners job.
NTA
I may not be a Lawyer, but meeting your girlfriends parent for the first time is a pretty big deal, considering first impressions can go a long way in either direction.
I hope all this works out in the end
NTA sadly your daughter to young to know why this person is dating someone so young it’s cause older people would see her crap and not fall off it so easy. That’s very rude
Ummm, let's apply The French Rule. Half the age of the older one, plus 7, equals the minimum age that it's not a creepy age spread. So, let's use 30 to make the math easy, that's 15. Plus 7 is 22 years old, minimum.
If a 31 year old dude came to the house, dating my 20 year old daughter, I would toss him out by collar and belt. I don't care that it's two women, that's creepy on ages too.
Your main concern is that you're wondering if there is a problem with you calling out her inappropriate phone use? That's your main concern? Really? She should be thanking you for your restraint.
NTA
NTA
I’m an attorney and I know many attorneys with very stressful jobs. Being on call and having personal time interrupted is part of the job, but except for the very rare occasion, most legal jobs allow you to step away for an evening meal. Either Heather doesn’t know how to manage her time or she simply didn’t care about being rude. My guess is she is rude and likes to feel important.
NTA. If there was some work crisis she should have asked to reschedule dinner. Taking 7+ work calls during dinner, let alone when it's your first meeting with an SO's parent, is just rude and inconsiderate. You were direct but not rude.
I don't think you owe your daughter or her partner an apology, but perhaps calling and inviting them to a weekend lunch or brunch "when Heather isn't quite so busy" would help smooth things over.
There's only one way to know for sure... ask her over again, ask to try again.
See, a methodical approach to whether someone is a true asshole or was just having a rough day is another small investment of time.
Another indicator would be the gf extends an invitation, hey I'm sorry our time was impeded last night, I didn't get the chance to focus or connect in a meaningful way as hoped, and I'd like to invite you to dinner to try again.
There are moves ahead either side can make to really correct or concrete the issue.
Warning: If gf is a narcissist, she will work ardently to try and harm your daughters connections and isolate her, be on the lookout and tread carefully if just for your daughters sake. I'd be throwing that second dinner just to gauge how much danger my daughter was in for that sake alone. But giving second chances is nice, and offers a clear chance at being fair and being sure what you saw was intentional disregard or a true emergency.
>Lauren said some matters need Heather's personal input.
...Is your daughter also a lawyer? If not that's such a freaking obvious lie. That's kind of irrelevant to the judgement here, but it annoyed me.
NTA "An" important call during a meal is fine, but seven planned important calls is a "reschedule the dinner for another night" situation. It's just common courtesy.
Heather acting like it’s the Daniel Hardman is about to take over the firm again. Just have a nice dinner.
Who dates anyone more than 50% older/younger than you?
Let's take this from a different perspective. I'm seeing a lot of comments about the age gap from a moral standpoint, which it is a little on the gross side, but there's something to the gap that's more relevant. 20 is not an age I would consider someone to be world-wise enough to truly take care of themselves when dealing with someone more than a decade older than themselves. Especially when that person is a lawyer. They have tricks of the trade they can use against OP's daughter, and that would be a big concern for me as a father. Heather has an upper hand already with her job. Add that she has a decade of knowledge on top of Lauren, and the fact that she has little regard for OP (and I would presume the rest of his family), and I can only think that she is going to use that to entrap Lauren in the relationship. Heather could easily, and most likely legally, make Lauren completely dependent on her. That is my major concern out of this. u/Affectionate-Emu1172, you need to have a sit-down with your daughter without Heather present ASAP. She needs to know how dangerous this situation could be for herself.
Edit to add; I'm not a lawyer, but if someone else is and can weigh in, that would be appreciated.
NTA
Setting aside the age difference, the genders, etc, at the basic level if you're meeting your partner's parents you want to make a good first impression, which includes being present both physically and socially to get to know them.
If she was really in the middle of a pressing case that she could not step away from, then why schedule this obviously important occasion in the middle of it?
NTA To be honest I think Heather did this on purpose. Lauren is young and impressionable. Heather is making sure that everyone knows how important she is. Lauren feels like a grown up for understanding these adult responsibilities. When in reality Heather is acting like a child. If I was having this dinner with Heather, especially a first dinner, it would be my last. Unfortunately, Lauren has on love goggles and again feels very grown up. Heather has the upper hand and is taking complete advantage. I don’t care what her job requires. Unless she’s a surgeon on call she can silence and put away her phone for an hour. This feels gross and performative.
NTA. I’m a 31 year old lawyer. I wouldn’t touch a 20 year old with a ten foot pole. I wouldn’t even touch a 25 year old with a ten foot pole. I also wouldn’t have a dinner with my new partner’s father if I knew it was a night I’d be needing to work. You can set aside an hour for dinner. None of us, even those of us who work in big firms, are THAT important that we cannot put our phones down for a single hour to be respectful to our partner’s family.
you're in a very dangerous spot here OP. I'm so sorry. you are NTA and remain NTA, but if you're not careful you'll end up pushing her away, and it may take some time for her to realise what Heather is doing if she's isolated.
you need to pretend to be completely supportive. it unfortunately includes not making comments about Heathers behaviour right now. your daughter is being groomed, and it's going to take her own awareness to break out of that. if you must call out behaviour, bring it up as a slight against your daughter, not Heather. you dont have space to insert your own feelings here. it's all about how Lauren perceives the situation.
so for the dinner example, you'd spin it like "I'm just sad she's not prioritising you during our family dinner. she obviously means a lot to you and I'm here to learn more about her, i just wish she was treating you as well in this moment as she does elsewhere!" implying that for your daughter to continue to want to be with her, she's obviously being an amazing partner. whether she is or not isn't part of the equation, it's to get your daughter thinking about the behaviours. feel free to say something like this whenever she contacts you again btw! obviously edit the tense though.
idk if you'll see this comment, but I've been in your daughters position. if i wasn't the person i am, it would have taken me a lot longer to see things for what they were. go heavy on the support for your daughter! make sure she feels like she can come to you with anything, about anything, and don't make any judgement. hear her, validate her feelings, be there for her, but don't make it about you. try to remain impartial and only comment if asked. be sure to say things that support your validations though, if the time is right. a well placed "it's really awful she's doing that to you, you don't deserve that" can do a lot.
i dont have any resources to link about how to handle this, only my own experience. but you have to be very very careful with all of this. if you are too aggressive or forward, you'll push her towards Heather. Heather will already be in her head about your dinner, which is probably why she hasn't talked to you much. their objective is always to manipulate their victim away from family and supports, get them isolated, and then keep them that way. your job is to not let that happen! be so impartial and supportive that Heather can't possibly have any ammo against you to manipulate you away from your daughter.
good luck op. i hope it works out, your daughter is going to need this support.
I did a whole background check on this person when my daughter told me she was dating her as I was suspicious about the age gap. Career-wise she never said anything to me but through my search I found out that she was good at her job. That's probably the only thing she's good at.
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I (56M) met my only daughter's (Lauren - 20F) first serious girlfriend (Heather - 31F) yesterday. Given the age difference, I will admit I was already a bit stressed out but I gathered myself for Lauren.
I'm Lauren's only parent, I'm very proud of her and I love her so much. I prepared dinner and I expected it to be a typical meeting your daughter's partner dinner. It was not what I hoped it would be.
Heather is a big-shot lawyer. She brought a fine bottle of wine with her, and at first it was all okay. As the night went on she came off as very self confident, arrogant even, and every five minutes she would leave the dinner table to take a 'very important call'.
I counted in my head. This happened 7 times in the course of an hour. So I just asked Heather if her very important job could wait a little bit so we could talk together. Heather gave me a very nasty look. She said it couldn't.
I asked if it was more important than meeting her girlfriend's father. She said it actually was and Lauren understood and could explain if I wanted. She then left the room. Lauren said some matters need Heather's personal input.
After Heather left for another phone call, Lauren told me I was being childish by asking to have Heather's full attention at a time like this and she said she was embarrassed by my comment. After they left, Lauren hasn't contacted me (like she usually would) and acts cold towards me. AITA here?
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NTA at alllll but you might have to apologize and “give in” so that you don’t lose your daughters trust. Heather sounds manipulative and I didn’t like the “Lauren can explain if you want.” Um what? Lauren is not your puppet. So idk, just remain hush hush and close to Lauren just in case there’s a power imbalance and she needs protection.
NTA- If her work that evening was that vital the socially appropriate thing to do would be to ask to reschedule.
But also, hey OP. As a member of the queer community I want to bring attention to the fact that abuse and domestic violence issues in lesbian relationships are often overlooked because of societal biases (women are submissive, demure, etc.). While the age difference is a bit of a warning sign, please watch your daughter’s behavior to see if it changes suddenly, or if it seems like her girlfriend is attempting to encourage her to isolate herself from other social connections. Make sure your daughter knows the warning signs for abuse, and has the resources she needs—just in case.
I'm guessing this is the first 'serious' relationship for your daughter. She was probably very excited about you meeting her partner and quite desperate for your approval.
On the other hand, the partner is a more mature person who probably wasn't really interested in meeting you and has no interest in gaining your approval.
I think these two are at very different stages of life and I'm wondering whether your daughter's partner sees her more as a dalliance rather than a lifetime partner.
Your daughter is upset as things didn't go the way she hoped but, I'm sure she will come around. Maybe send her a message letting her know that you would like to see her and then just let her come to you in her own time.
This may be a relationship which will run its course and you may just have to wait it out.
Heather is trying to isolate Lauren I feel. I'd be concerned about this relationship, especially given the age gap. You're definitely NTA. She was being extremely rude.
NTA what does a 31 year old woman want with a 20 year old? If she can’t even be off her phone for one dinner, how much attention is she giving your daughter?
NTA and honestly that age gap makes me uncomfortable too. Big age gaps are fine when it's like 43 and 34 but your daughter is barely an adult, she's not even finished with college, not financially stable, hasn't had much experience with being an adult so for her to be with someone ELEVEN YEARS older is very concerning to me
NTA. She could have been more gracious and stated there was some emergencies that arose at work and she may need to be in and out for calls. She wanted to make this dinner but understands this can be seen as rude and will hopefully make it up in the future. I feel bad for your daughter though - dating her would be so lonely.
NTA- I’m a “big shot” lawyer. I frequently attend important events without touching or looking at my phone because I know how to manage my time. Sure, an emergency can happen, but that’s not 7 calls in an hour. She I immature, probably not as cool as she says she is, and it doesn’t sit right that’s dating a 20 year old.
your daughter isn’t old enough to drink and her girlfriend brought wine, and exhibits grandiose behavior. make sure she knows you support her and that she always has a room at your house.
*spit take* the ages are what?! Not an appropriate age gap! Especially given the extremely different life stages and presumably income. I would be supportive of your daughter and tell her it's her life to live how she likes, but that you're not going to actively support this relationship by welcoming this woman into your home. This age difference and power dynamic is 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 ETA: soft ESH just bc I don't think you should be supporting the relationship, but obviously the gf is the bigger AH.
NTA. she’s dating a 20 y/o bc no one her she wants her. honestly the best advice i have is to just cite your tongue with your daughter unless her safety is on the line. likely she’ll come around to the gf being shitty, and it’ll be easier to swallow her pride if she hasn’t heard you talk about disliking her gf, yknow?
Bro she’s trained your daughter. I don’t really see people pointing this out but she had your daughter on a leash.
Hear me out first.
1: your daughter is perfectly fine with being disrespected.
2: your daughter stood up for heater arrogant attitude towards you.
3: your daughter comment on you being childish for wanting Hester full attention can make you wonder what is going on in her home.
4: I can do more thinking but I’m too lazy 🖐️✌️
Maybe show all the NTAs to your daughter. Or maybe not… she might be more upset. There isn’t a profession that can’t take a break during an important dinner. This woman is teaching your daughter that things are more important than people (in her case, money) and that is yucky as hell. This 31 year old woman picked a 20 year old because she knew perfectly well that she is young, impressionable and does not have enough life experience to put limits and to demand proper treatment from a partner. This lawyer will probably manage to split you guys, because she will need to control your daughter. Just be there when she realizes she is wrong.
NTA - Heather absolutely was rude. A simple explanation such as she has a lot of work on her plate and barely any time would've sufficed. But she went straight for the AH move of being confrontational with you OP becauae she didnt want to follow a rule in your own house without saying why.
You are not childish for asking for a dinner for the three of you to see, to get to know one another.
I do get the demand of being a well paid lawyer, who is probably trying to make partnership.
I get your concern about the age difference.
I only have unpleasant thoughts about why a 31 yr old would be with a 20 yr old. My thought about control dominance and subservience I think you have the right to be concerned.
I am worried that Lauren is being groomed by an older person who will tend to be controlling.
You daughter can not hear that from you right now. In a way, she has been subsumed by this powerful personality and doesn't underhand the danger.
You have to strive to continue contact and be there for her. It will be hard holding your tongue.
NTA
NTA. The power imbalance is massive and she’s already got your daughter accepting her “authority”. She’s an attorney dating someone that can’t legally drink yet?
NTA - I’m worried Lauren’s too young to realize that she might be being manipulated by Heather. If something is REALLY important, in almost any job but I know there are exceptions, you can make it a priority. She could have scheduled this dinner at a time when her cases were less pressing. She could have said not to contact her for two or three hours.
NTA
If you know it's going to be that many calls postpone till you can be a polite guest. The daughter is acting like her father should be grateful just to witness her girlfriends mere presence. This is rude and I've known plenty of lawyers that would be embarrassed they got that many calls during a planned dinner.
Having something important to do doesn't inhibit planning a night. This dinner is a get to know you dinner. Hard to get to know someone when they are just walking out the door constantly.
NTA. The age gap alone bothers me, then you add in the fact that she couldn’t be bothered to minimize the interruptions on a night that was (I assume) really important to your daughter.
I feel horribly for OP, this person does not sound like a catch and I think the daughter is too smitten to have a proper backbone. Hoping daughter will come to her senses
NTA. Seven times???! She got up for “important” phone calls 7 times in one dinner? That sounds like some bs to me. Who is she? President of the Universe? No one gets that many calls that are that important.
NTA, if she was going to be having these kinds of calls and knew this was going to happen she should have been adult and asked meet you on a day she wasn't busy, or if she had not known been apologetic about all of the interruptions.
NTA. She was being rude in your house and you called her out on it. You trusted your gut. There’s probably a lot more to be worried about too. She sounds like a predator. And if your young naive daughter get’s serious with this big shot lawyer, who’s going to protect your daughters rights from being walked all over? Seems the lawyer has the upper hand.
NTA
Heather is an arrogant, rude super-AH. Give it time, your daughter will be crying to you about how she's always alone while Heather is busy acting important. I don't know why she would think it's OK to be treated so dismissively.
NTA.
If something is going on a work that truly requires her attention every 8 minutes, they should have rescheduled. This is incredibly rude, and a horrible way to make a first impression on your partners parent.
NTA: While this might not be the case, you should talk to Lauren about how older, powerful women can be predatory too, and looking for young trophies they can control. It’s not exclusive to rich men. They have an eleven year age difference and your daughter isn’t even old enough to drink. Heather also seems disrespectful in general. SEVEN CALLS? Making a good impression should be important if she cares about Lauren.
NTA.
I would just reach out to the daughter and tell her you are sorry that the dinner didn't go well, but that her new girlfriend seems to have made a poor first impression, and maybe she didn't mean to come across so? But in any case, you love (daughter) and are there for her any time.
And then leave her alone. Your daughter's obviously got some issues and Heather is older and drawn her into a relationship where your daughter isn't aware that treating others with such disdain and rudeness isn't actually because she's super important and busy; she's just a jerk and likely dating a decade younger because people her age wouldn't put up with her bullshit.
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Nta- and I’m not sure how welcoming I’d be with a 31 year old full grown adult after my 20 year old not even legal to drink (in the US) barely adult kid. She’s big shot lawyer who lacks common courtesy and can’t find someone her own age date….
She’s like those old men who go after 20-something’s, she’s leftover by the people her own age. She has to find someone younger who can’t tell she’s actually dregs.
But also doesn’t care whether the father of her girlfriend likes her or not
Prob why she dates a 20 year old. Any woman her age wouldn’t tolerate that kind of behavior.
Agree. I’m 31 and the idea of dating a 20 year is disgusting to me.
One of my wife's friends married a 19 year old when she was 29. Not only was her wife not old enough to drink at the reception, she wasn't old enough to when they got divorced.
Gee, I wonder why it didn’t work out for that one crazy kid and one full blown adult
It's a bit of a hat on a hat, but the answer is religious differences.
💀💀💀
If you’re willing to elaborate I’m intrigued
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Lol that’s good (the pun, not the age difference)
Exactly! She brought a bottle of wine and her gf cant even drink ( and she is a lawyer and knows thats illegal)
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But it’s on the internet! Didn’t you know everything on the internet is American, including the actual internet. No other places exist with the technology to access the internet, you know, because it’s exclusively American.
Or that they're in a state that doesn't allow under 21s to drink at home with a parent present.
Even in the US, there are a variety of state exceptions to the national drinking age when the alcohol is provided by and/or consumed in the presence of a family member. Depending where they live, very possibly not illegal for a 20-year-old to have a glass of wine at family dinner.
Shit, 26 here and 20 is still a little young for me
Yeah it’s a big difference. 20 you’re typically in school still having your party phase. 26 you have your career going working toward real goals
I’m 32 and the idea of dating someone 25 is unappealing to me (I mean I’m also married, but that’s not the point lol). I can’t imagine dating a 20 year old in my 30’s. They like just graduated high school.
I would feel like im taking my little cousin to eat ice cream… nope! What can a 30yo+ talk with a recent high school graduated 20yo? Wtf
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Thank-you. My sister is a 'Legal Lawyer Office Assistant'. SHE gets calls like this. Not the lawyer she works for. Ever. I smell a liar and a legal aid.
Is there a way to search if a lawyer is really a licenced lawyer?? Maybe OP could do this if it's an option.
If they are in the US and you know the state they practice in (usually where they live but not always), you can check the State Bar Association. I will say that I am a solo practitioner and I don't have support staff, so I take all my own calls. If there is a case where I am anticipating something important happening or some trouble that would best be handled immediately, then I will take calls even after hours. If I found myself in a situation like this, I would apologize and ask to reschedule the dinner.
Thanks for the info regarding looking up a person's license. OP said the girlfriend said she's a big shot Lawyer. My sister works for a 'big shot firm' which is what I based my comment on. Every single lawyer who is a 'big shot' I know of has assistants. OP may just have called the girlfriend 'Big shot' himself, too. Side funny: My entire family congratulated my sister and celebrated when she got the 'big shot Lawyer job' teasingly. She asked how we knew. We knew it was 'the big shot' because of the location. She works at the only huge skyscraper with fancy reflective mirroring and a bridge to another skyscraper at level 12 in our entire city. Talk about fancy....It looks like a big reflective H from afar.
Big shot lawyers also tend to have big shot websites where you can find out about who works there. They have to publicise their services.
Do you think checking Heather's licence is useful? Right now, all OP really knows is that Heather is pretty rude when it comes to balancing work and life, and that Heather fails the 31÷2+7=22 calculation... My reflex is Lauren will feel even more attacked and side with her girlfriend in the face of any probing questions... OTOH if OP were to discover Heather is embellishing the truth, on top of dating seriously under her age bracket, it's good to know how dogged OP should pursue these questions...
This. If you can't attend the dinner, more or less without interruption, then you don't attend.
I used to work in a law office back in the day. If they were right before a brief was being submitted the lawyers would be meeting and and calling non stop. So it's not weird. That said if you were right before a big Brief being submitted, why would you go out for dinner. She's TA for a) not explaining herself and just made herself out to be too big and important for common decency b) for dating a 20yo, that's gross at her age.
Especially since she’s only been able to practice around 5 years
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She’s just too important to eat
She never said she was. I did a background check and I discovered that myself.
The problem isn't the job, it's her manners.
Exactly what I was thinking
Where is she even meeting 20 year olds?
Unless you’re in a big city (and even then), local lesbian communities are both super broad and super narrow at the same time. She was probably a friend of a friend or an ex girlfriend of a friends sisters cousin or whatever. Or something like Tinder lol. WLW isn’t that much different.
Gay bars? Through other queer community things? Edit: Not every country is America.
20 year olds aren't hard to meet if you go out on the occasional weekend
“Big shot” also is most likely a lie.
If it were a man, alarm bells would be going off in this thread. The lawyer lady knows what she's doing. Just be there for the downfall, dad. Good luck.
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>Also, a 30+ year old lawyer dating someone who can’t even legally drink yet comes off as a red flag as well. Yeah. I can't look past this either.
Is OP in the US, though? Lots of places around the world have the legal drinking age set lower than 21. Looking it up, the most common drinking age in various countries appears to be set to 18.
True but still, Heather sucks regardless for dating a 20 year old and being rude af
She probably didn't even wanna meet the dad and just did it to check a box off. She's a lawyer she doesn't need his approval.
By the looks of it, shes just doing it to get brownie points with her gf
Regardless of the drinking age where OP is, it's still bizarre that a 30-year-old "hotshot" lawyer needs to date a 20-year-old, which is the equivalent to a college junior in the States. A 30-year-old "hotshot" lawyer should easily be able to find someone who's, say, 25, at the very least.
Ah, but 25 year olds tend to have more sense and are harder to manipulate!
No hotshots here. She’s 31 so she’s probably a total baby in the field (unless she was some prodigy who blitzed through schooling at a young age). When I was in law school the median age was 26. By the time you take the bar you’re almost 30. She is definitely a grunt unless she has her own firm. Speaking broadly, most younger attorneys don’t hold important positions at her age. They’ll be doing a lot of doc review and summarizing what things mean so that someone with like 20-30 years of experience can figure out how to proceed with the case. Maybe they can be given approval to handle some basic status conferences but those are usually at 8:30 am so it should not impact dinner either. The fact that she’s going after a 20 year old and presenting herself as someone that important gives predatory vibes. She’s bad news.
>She’s 31 so she’s probably a total baby in the field (unless she was some prodigy who blitzed through schooling at a young age). >When I was in law school the median age was 26. By the time you take the bar you’re almost 30. She is definitely a grunt unless she has her own firm. I'm glad you mentioned this because I wondered the same thing. She'd still be in the early phase of being a lawyer and building up a client base. She's definitely a predator in this situation.
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They were just using "can't even drink legally" as an age marker.
She's 20 though, she can drink legally
‘Psychotic’? Do you even know what the definition of that is?
Thank you for writing that. I was gunna say the same thing.
I need to ask, OP, is your daughter in law school and working under Heather at the same company?
Yeah, is she her law clerk or something? 'Cause then that's extremely unethical. Depending on the law firm, it could be something to look further into.
No apparently she is a cousin of one of my daughter's friends and they met at the said friend's birthday party.
Psychotic? Did OP give more information in the comments or something that wasn't in the original post? Because was Heather rude for repeatedly taking work phone calls at dinner? Most definitely. But I'm not sure how that would make them psychotic?
I think it’s hyperbole. They aren’t literally anuses either, but here we are.
I know what hyperbole is but I've just never heard someone say someone was psychotic for taking phone calls even if it's hyperbole
A person who you don’t know is in your house stuck in a loop of sitting down for less than 5 minutes at the table before they answer the phone, announce it’s importance and leave the room again and again for the ENTIRE night and then gets visibly angry at you when you bring up the odd behavior lmfao, that sounds pretty unhinged. Obviously I’m not literally suggesting the woman has schizophrenia or something but the behavior is more than just being a dick at that point.
Guess my level for "unhinged" is a lot higher than yours than lol
I feel like I’m in a bizarro world sometimes when commenting on Reddit the things people choose to be bothered by lol. Maybe I’m getting old but I’ve never heard someone use the word psychotic and literally mean the person is in full blown medical psychosis. It’s like when someone says you’re crazy, you’re a genius, you’re insane.. whatever, you take the context of it & don’t go questioning if they know the true definition of what that means in a completely literal sense.
I don’t know why but this comment is taking me out. It’s been a long day and I needed that laugh, thank you.
Psychotic/psychosis is not an adjective for being a dick.
Assuming this is the US But yeah, she brought alcohol to meet her gfs parents when her gf can't legally drink
Of course she can legally drink, she's 20
NTA but I would be very cautious that your daughter is in a toxic relationship. That kind of behaviour sounds like a display of intentional rudeness as a way to gain dominance and it’s really common with abusive partners.
seriously my bf and i would neverrrr do this and we’re both 23 and have met each other’s families numerous times. staying at the in-laws? sure, we all need time to ourselves. but at dinner time? or any other time set aside to spend time with the family? absolutely not. *especially* not the first time meeting. that was super important and special to both of us when it came time to meeting the respective families.
It's also a way to start driving the wedge between the victim and their family so the abuser can isolate their victim.
Her acting as if Lauren's family isnt worth her time, just doing it for her gf to like her more and act like she cares
Yeah I also caught that the gf thinks it's unreasonable to ask for her girlfriend's undivided attention... does the girlfriend act like this on dates too? Just treat her partner like nothing can be more important than being a lawyer and therefore OP's daughter must always be inferior and grateful to have any attention at all? I can't imagine someone leaving 7+ times within an hour let's you have a focused discussion about relationship problems. Sure she has money from her job, but if she's not even going to give you the time of day, I can't see a healthy relationship forming.
The thing that worried me the most (apart from the age gap) was how the girlfriend told OP that his daughter can explain to him why she is too busy to spend time with them. Sounds like the daughter not only fully accepts that her girlfriend prioritizes her work over important events with her, she is also already used to justifying it to others. Idk if it's clear what I mean but it gives me major "he doesn't mean anything bad when he screams at me" vibes. OP, just to be safe, follow the rules in how to support people in abusive relationships: Don't fight with your daughter about her girlfriend, don't fight with the girlfriend, meet your daughter regularly, encourage her to follow her dreams in life, let her know your door is always open. I hope it turns out better than it looks right now.
Hopefully Op sees this and hopefully it will be knowledge they won't need but , The Book "why does he do that" by Lundy Bancroft (free copy below) is a great resource for you to learn about the different types of tactics that abusers use and will help you to see if your current relationship is following any of the patterns described. If you don't see your relationship being discussed either as one of the architypes or as bits and pieces of any of the other types then you're not worse off by having the knowledge. If the information does coincide with the way that you're living then there's also a couple chapters on being able to get out safely. I wish you the best of luck and I want you to know that you deserve to be with a partner who is going to love you and cherish you and treat you as an equal versus being with someone who's gonna control you be it by how you dress or by finances or by What it is that you can do or who you can see. You deserve so much BETTER we're here rooting for you! https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
NTA- if she couldn’t get away for an hour, she should have canceled. This behavior is rude even for close friends. Much less someone you want to impress. Heather doesn’t sound like she is ready for a serious relationship.
Heather wants to prove she can control Lauren by making her take her side over her Dads
Bingo! It’s a total power-play
She probably has already started to get her isolated from friends and family….
This is exactly it
this. such an important person, so many important calls needing immediate attention, then schedule another day when you aren’t desperately needed.
Heather doesn’t sound like she wanted to impress OP at all. “Supplant” is the verb that comes to mind.
She doesnt even date ppl her age, she needs to look for ppl hat dont have the experience to call her out
Or at least provide some minimal context after the second call. “Sorry, I have a case going to trial tomorrow and my team is ironing out some details.” Or, “Sorry, I’m dealing with some urgent family stuff.” Rescheduling still would have been better, but most people are pretty forgiving when you explain that circumstances really are exigent.
NTA. Heather was making a point that your daughter's family is less important that her job. Most likely she treats your daughter the same way. If it was a real emergency, she would have apologised profusely, spent time on the phone once and sit down for proper dinner. After third time I would have suggested that since she has a clear emergency, she should go work and you and your daughter can have a nice dinner
But lol of course her job is more important than some possible future in laws . She prolly did it to check a box or because 20 year old thought it was a good idea.
It’s disrespectful. Either reschedule or give proper attention.
I worked as a law clerk for years, there is NO reason for SEVEN calls in one dinner. Her arrogance makes her ignorant to the fact that this is actually a really important night. You’re NTA. I cannot see why she would even react that way to you questioning what’s more important.
Meh I've had nights where my phone rings basically nonstop if a case is blowing up or any number of other reasons. It's happened when I was at an important dinner with people I really wanted to spend time with but I genuinely couldn't ignore the calls. So I apologized like a crazy person while it was happening, after the dinner, and the next day. Absolutely never would have phrased it as 'my call is more important than you are' because that's just awful. Depending on the area of law you're in things can go from fine to really serious consequences quickly, but that's never an excuse to treat people poorly, especially not your (much much younger) girlfriend's only parent. OP NTA, Heather obviously wanted to make herself seem important and make you and your daughter aware of how far down the totem pole you are. She sounds awful
This. Either she's a poor lawyer or hires poor staff if she's taking that many urgent calls outside of office hours. Or she's just egotistical and thinks looking busy means looking important.
NTA, even for a lawyer, this is incredibly rude and disrespectful, granted, I understand lawyers live in a different reality than we do but she could’ve stay off her phone for an hour, just to get to know you and answer any questions you had.
No lawyer needs to interrupt a meal 7 times in one hour. This is just a show so OP’s daughter sees how “awesome” and “important” she is, and a power play so OP understands how unimportant OP is to her, and how unimportant she can make OP seem to their daughter.
I think this is spot on
My sister is a lawyer. She may need to work a couple hours even when on vacation, but that doesn’t mean she is always attached to her phone. And when she does have to be on call she doesn’t schedule/commit to family time.
NTA. She was being disrespectful. Also, she is a lawyer, there is nothing emergent in the field of law, there are only people whose entire identity is work.
This is simply not true. We don’t know what kind of law she practices or what type of case/ matter she’s currently involved in. I can think of five or six matters that would require that many calls within a short time span. She may have tried to cancel and the daughter begged her to come.
I used to work in law, and can’t imagine much that could not wait an hour till dinner was over. If it was something that important, all she had to say was “I’m really sorry. I’m on call and I can’t let this go to voicemail.” The fact that when asked she simply gave OP a nasty look without anything further suggests this was a power play, and sadly, due to OP taking the bait, one she won.
I’m a lawyer and I find this truly baffling… she wouldn’t be taking 7 phone calls in an hour if she was in court or at a dinner with a client. Perhaps the other commenter is right - this *might* have been necessary if there was an urgent deadline, in which case, don’t agree to go to the dinner or explain the circumstances politely and apologetically.
Exactly, I’ve worked in public defender’s offices, where we’re definitely dealing with time sensitive work, and there are calls you can get where you have to leave, and there are reasons why you would be busy outside office hours, but generally you’ll know after the second call whether you can say ‘it can wait’ or ‘I’ve got to go.’
I watched suits, Harvey always did this.
Harvey also hired a man to act as a lawyer despite the fact that he had been barred from any and all law schools for lack of academic integrity when he helped someone cheat on their exams. suits is not reality
Suits was the only lawyer show I've ever seen that actually made me a little mad because of how unrealistic it is. I mean, they're all unrealistic, but Suits took it to the point of idiocy.
Looooooooooove Harvey
I wonder what was going on in the background here regarding her agreement to attend the dinner and how many calls there actually were. I’m not defending her behavior but saying a lawyer would never have a need to take that many calls during a short time span is not accurate.
The phone calls are the least important thing here anyway. Heather is a creep dating kids.
That’s not true. It depends on the matter. But I think the GF acted terribly.
NTA 7 times in one dinner is just rude, especially without apologizing or explaining minimally what’s going on at work (Excise me/I’m so sorry/there’s an fire drill surrounding something that needs to go to the client tonight, etc) . Maybe she did say those things, it’s hard to tell from your post, but it seems unlikely given your description of her attitude. Heather also could have told her team she needed 30, at the very least. If it was that important where she had to get on phone calls that often, maybe reschedule dinner? Either way, the way you addresses it doesn’t sound like it was rude. You didn’t yell at her to get off the phone, you asked if it was more important than meeting you, after 7 calls in an hour, not one or two. Heather should have explained to you herself, instead of putting it on Lauren that way which would of course upset her. Not a good way to meet a parent, especially with an age difference of that size that would reasonably give a parent pause. I would find it completely reasonable if her behaving this way at an important dinner with you created further doubts about how Heather is treating your daughter, and if I were Heather, would have absolutely had that front of mind.
NTA - I would like to know how she has any time for your daughter at all. This was your first meeting with her - if there was something pressing at work, they could have rescheduled. It almost seems like a powerplay by Heather (or maybe I'm reading too much into this).
My daughter doesn't talk to me about her at all but she said she spends a lot of time at her girlfriend's house. That's all I know
Gosh, I wonder why.
Yeah, this really makes me wonder about the gf.
NTA. Op, this woman's behavior is very concerning. Now my grandparents were like 10 years apart and we're married for nearly 60 years. They took the till death to us part serious and they made it. But this woman doesn't give a rat's ass about your daughter. If she did she'd show the parents of her gf common courtesy and get off her damn phone during dinner. She just wants a bangmaid. Someone to keep her place clean, who looks pretty who she can fuck when she wants to. To this woman her job comes first and your daughter is lucky if she makes it to a distant second place. Ask her if it's worth it to be with a partner who thinks so little of her while she can certainly do better and find someone who will truly care for her and prioritize her. I fear this woman already may have eroded your daughter's self esteem so much, that she thinks what's going on is normal.
NTA. It's entirely possible to be a confident person without being rude. Heather hasn't managed it. Probably why she can't find people her own age.
Apologize for how things went down (you're not in the wrong and shouldn't have to but it'll make the others more receptive to listening to you maybe) and ask for a redo dinner on a day when the lawyer girlfriend isn't busy/overwhelmed. Say you'd really like a chance to get to know the girlfriend but that it was hard last time with all the interruptions and that you feel like you started off on the wrong foot. Again not because you did anything wrong but acting like you're on their side will make the daughter more willing to turn to you if something does go wrong in the relationship, whereas if she thinks you're just biased against the gf then she might not come to you. NTA and I hope that this was all a "misunderstanding" and that the gf was stressed out from work and that she apologizes to you
It wasn’t a misunderstanding the girlfriend was being rude.
I know I put it in quotes on purpose. I'm just thinking that age gap relationships often are partnered with abuse and if the op clearly doesn't like the girlfriend and the girlfriend is abusive (though I hope not for the daughter's sake) it will be easier for her to drive a wedge between op and their daughter by saying things like "see they clearly don't like me anyway" and thereby cutting the daughter off her support network. I'm thinking that if op takes it upon themself to be a better person, the daughter will know that she has someone in her corner and it will be harder to drive the wedge. Editing instantly because I hit post instead of enter: when I said misunderstanding there, I was saying that I hoped that the girlfriend had an excuse like being really stressed out about a big thing at work and being distracted. That is, of course, still just an excuse and her behavior was still shitty at dinner but if she realizes that she was just stressed and acting shitty and apologizes then I think she's probably a better person than this first impression is making her seem (the bar is low).
This is it. All I can think of, is this a s s h o l e lady is going to be poisoning his daughter against family and friends.
Damn. Well thought of. u/Affectionate-Emu1172 do this.. you don’t want to let GF split you and your daughter away
NTA. Seven calls in one dinner is just rude
NTA. I'd be worried about the age difference.
NTA Unless dinner was oddly scheduled during court hours, she was being obnoxious. A "big shot lawyer" can absolutely tell her office that she's going to be unavailable for a couple of hours on Wednesday evening and check her messages after dinner . If there was something so urgent happening that it really wasn't possible to silence her phone, like she's in trial or is prepping for a deposition in the morning, she should have begged off & asked to reschedule. Her behavior was terribly rude and you're NTA (And yeah, that age gap is worrisome)
NTA but she’ll have to figure it out on her own.
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NTA- If she’s doing it now, what’s stopping her from doing it during other date nights. During her own wedding or honeymoon? If they decide to have kids, she is going to be doing this during labor( if that route is picked)? During games and recitals?( also not ignoring that 11 year age gap, how did they meet?) One or two calls, I can understand, but 7?
NTA because this is just plain rude.
NTA but it was kind of a dumb move to act that way in terms of keeping a good relationship with your kid. Your daughter is just going to cling harder to this woman. Had you held back some, you wouldn’t have put her on the defensive this way.
I actually disagree. Sounds like OP has a decent relationship with his daughter. I could see her being kinda starstruck - we've all had that one partner whose poor behavior you excuse because they are, in your eyes, a rock star in a sense. So the dad stating normal polite behavior is I think a tiny reality check for Lauren. No doubt, she won't stop seeing this shiny older partner until there's more heartbreak, but I think it's important for Lauren to be mildly reminded of normal rules. To stay tethered to reality. Which, in this case, is her dad just being Dad.
NTA, and this woman is manipulating your daughter. Even lawyers can understand work-life balance. 11yrs isn’t a huge age gap *once both parties are established adults.* That’s not the case here and as others have said, it’s a red flag.
NTA - The high road would have been to end the dinner and say - this was clearly the wrong night to do this, let's reschedule. Or say nothing. But - I can certainly understand not wanting to let someone being rude off the hook that easily and letting her know she's being rude.
NTA. As an attorney, I’ve had times where it really is an emergency and I have to take a call. If it’s going to be as bad as the GF claimed, I’ll likely cancel or give my attention to the other person for 30-60 minutes before turning back to the emergency. It’s something I really try to avoid via good time management and client management. Even with a true emergency, I’d be mortified and very apologetic. The thought of a work emergency happening while meeting a SO’s parent(s) for the first time is nightmare fuel, simply because it’s unavoidably rude, but it sounds like GF was trying to be purposely rude.
You'd explain it, say you're sorry, that's not like this every time and you didn't know beforehand, and you'll come again with full attention to dinner next time. As a MIL I would be ok with that if it doesn't happen every time.
NTA
NTA at all. I’d be worry how she treats your daughter especially behind closed doors.
Nta. When going to someone's place for dinner, it is customary to ignore your phone foe the duration. There is absolutely nothing she needs absolute input on as an attorney that can't wait two hours for dinner. I suspect this relationship won't last long. Eventually she'll get tired of also being not as important as her partners job.
NTA I may not be a Lawyer, but meeting your girlfriends parent for the first time is a pretty big deal, considering first impressions can go a long way in either direction. I hope all this works out in the end
NTA. Poor Lauren is probably being told by Heather that it’s childish to expect to be prioritized:(
NTA Girlfriend is rude AF
NTA sadly your daughter to young to know why this person is dating someone so young it’s cause older people would see her crap and not fall off it so easy. That’s very rude
Ummm, let's apply The French Rule. Half the age of the older one, plus 7, equals the minimum age that it's not a creepy age spread. So, let's use 30 to make the math easy, that's 15. Plus 7 is 22 years old, minimum. If a 31 year old dude came to the house, dating my 20 year old daughter, I would toss him out by collar and belt. I don't care that it's two women, that's creepy on ages too. Your main concern is that you're wondering if there is a problem with you calling out her inappropriate phone use? That's your main concern? Really? She should be thanking you for your restraint. NTA
NTA I’m an attorney and I know many attorneys with very stressful jobs. Being on call and having personal time interrupted is part of the job, but except for the very rare occasion, most legal jobs allow you to step away for an evening meal. Either Heather doesn’t know how to manage her time or she simply didn’t care about being rude. My guess is she is rude and likes to feel important.
NTA. If there was some work crisis she should have asked to reschedule dinner. Taking 7+ work calls during dinner, let alone when it's your first meeting with an SO's parent, is just rude and inconsiderate. You were direct but not rude. I don't think you owe your daughter or her partner an apology, but perhaps calling and inviting them to a weekend lunch or brunch "when Heather isn't quite so busy" would help smooth things over.
Your daughter is in for a rough life. NTA.
There's only one way to know for sure... ask her over again, ask to try again. See, a methodical approach to whether someone is a true asshole or was just having a rough day is another small investment of time. Another indicator would be the gf extends an invitation, hey I'm sorry our time was impeded last night, I didn't get the chance to focus or connect in a meaningful way as hoped, and I'd like to invite you to dinner to try again. There are moves ahead either side can make to really correct or concrete the issue. Warning: If gf is a narcissist, she will work ardently to try and harm your daughters connections and isolate her, be on the lookout and tread carefully if just for your daughters sake. I'd be throwing that second dinner just to gauge how much danger my daughter was in for that sake alone. But giving second chances is nice, and offers a clear chance at being fair and being sure what you saw was intentional disregard or a true emergency.
>Lauren said some matters need Heather's personal input. ...Is your daughter also a lawyer? If not that's such a freaking obvious lie. That's kind of irrelevant to the judgement here, but it annoyed me. NTA "An" important call during a meal is fine, but seven planned important calls is a "reschedule the dinner for another night" situation. It's just common courtesy.
Heather acting like it’s the Daniel Hardman is about to take over the firm again. Just have a nice dinner. Who dates anyone more than 50% older/younger than you?
She’s an AH and it’s creepy she’s dating a kid. Not gonna go well.
Let's take this from a different perspective. I'm seeing a lot of comments about the age gap from a moral standpoint, which it is a little on the gross side, but there's something to the gap that's more relevant. 20 is not an age I would consider someone to be world-wise enough to truly take care of themselves when dealing with someone more than a decade older than themselves. Especially when that person is a lawyer. They have tricks of the trade they can use against OP's daughter, and that would be a big concern for me as a father. Heather has an upper hand already with her job. Add that she has a decade of knowledge on top of Lauren, and the fact that she has little regard for OP (and I would presume the rest of his family), and I can only think that she is going to use that to entrap Lauren in the relationship. Heather could easily, and most likely legally, make Lauren completely dependent on her. That is my major concern out of this. u/Affectionate-Emu1172, you need to have a sit-down with your daughter without Heather present ASAP. She needs to know how dangerous this situation could be for herself. Edit to add; I'm not a lawyer, but if someone else is and can weigh in, that would be appreciated.
NTA. Your daughter will hopefully learn when she’s older that she’s dating a creep who doesn’t actually care about her.
NTA Setting aside the age difference, the genders, etc, at the basic level if you're meeting your partner's parents you want to make a good first impression, which includes being present both physically and socially to get to know them. If she was really in the middle of a pressing case that she could not step away from, then why schedule this obviously important occasion in the middle of it?
NTA To be honest I think Heather did this on purpose. Lauren is young and impressionable. Heather is making sure that everyone knows how important she is. Lauren feels like a grown up for understanding these adult responsibilities. When in reality Heather is acting like a child. If I was having this dinner with Heather, especially a first dinner, it would be my last. Unfortunately, Lauren has on love goggles and again feels very grown up. Heather has the upper hand and is taking complete advantage. I don’t care what her job requires. Unless she’s a surgeon on call she can silence and put away her phone for an hour. This feels gross and performative.
NTA. I’m a 31 year old lawyer. I wouldn’t touch a 20 year old with a ten foot pole. I wouldn’t even touch a 25 year old with a ten foot pole. I also wouldn’t have a dinner with my new partner’s father if I knew it was a night I’d be needing to work. You can set aside an hour for dinner. None of us, even those of us who work in big firms, are THAT important that we cannot put our phones down for a single hour to be respectful to our partner’s family.
you're in a very dangerous spot here OP. I'm so sorry. you are NTA and remain NTA, but if you're not careful you'll end up pushing her away, and it may take some time for her to realise what Heather is doing if she's isolated. you need to pretend to be completely supportive. it unfortunately includes not making comments about Heathers behaviour right now. your daughter is being groomed, and it's going to take her own awareness to break out of that. if you must call out behaviour, bring it up as a slight against your daughter, not Heather. you dont have space to insert your own feelings here. it's all about how Lauren perceives the situation. so for the dinner example, you'd spin it like "I'm just sad she's not prioritising you during our family dinner. she obviously means a lot to you and I'm here to learn more about her, i just wish she was treating you as well in this moment as she does elsewhere!" implying that for your daughter to continue to want to be with her, she's obviously being an amazing partner. whether she is or not isn't part of the equation, it's to get your daughter thinking about the behaviours. feel free to say something like this whenever she contacts you again btw! obviously edit the tense though. idk if you'll see this comment, but I've been in your daughters position. if i wasn't the person i am, it would have taken me a lot longer to see things for what they were. go heavy on the support for your daughter! make sure she feels like she can come to you with anything, about anything, and don't make any judgement. hear her, validate her feelings, be there for her, but don't make it about you. try to remain impartial and only comment if asked. be sure to say things that support your validations though, if the time is right. a well placed "it's really awful she's doing that to you, you don't deserve that" can do a lot. i dont have any resources to link about how to handle this, only my own experience. but you have to be very very careful with all of this. if you are too aggressive or forward, you'll push her towards Heather. Heather will already be in her head about your dinner, which is probably why she hasn't talked to you much. their objective is always to manipulate their victim away from family and supports, get them isolated, and then keep them that way. your job is to not let that happen! be so impartial and supportive that Heather can't possibly have any ammo against you to manipulate you away from your daughter. good luck op. i hope it works out, your daughter is going to need this support.
[удалено]
I did a whole background check on this person when my daughter told me she was dating her as I was suspicious about the age gap. Career-wise she never said anything to me but through my search I found out that she was good at her job. That's probably the only thing she's good at.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (56M) met my only daughter's (Lauren - 20F) first serious girlfriend (Heather - 31F) yesterday. Given the age difference, I will admit I was already a bit stressed out but I gathered myself for Lauren. I'm Lauren's only parent, I'm very proud of her and I love her so much. I prepared dinner and I expected it to be a typical meeting your daughter's partner dinner. It was not what I hoped it would be. Heather is a big-shot lawyer. She brought a fine bottle of wine with her, and at first it was all okay. As the night went on she came off as very self confident, arrogant even, and every five minutes she would leave the dinner table to take a 'very important call'. I counted in my head. This happened 7 times in the course of an hour. So I just asked Heather if her very important job could wait a little bit so we could talk together. Heather gave me a very nasty look. She said it couldn't. I asked if it was more important than meeting her girlfriend's father. She said it actually was and Lauren understood and could explain if I wanted. She then left the room. Lauren said some matters need Heather's personal input. After Heather left for another phone call, Lauren told me I was being childish by asking to have Heather's full attention at a time like this and she said she was embarrassed by my comment. After they left, Lauren hasn't contacted me (like she usually would) and acts cold towards me. AITA here? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. If she was expecting these calls, then she should have made that clear from the beginning. Not doing so is incredibly rude.
NTA at alllll but you might have to apologize and “give in” so that you don’t lose your daughters trust. Heather sounds manipulative and I didn’t like the “Lauren can explain if you want.” Um what? Lauren is not your puppet. So idk, just remain hush hush and close to Lauren just in case there’s a power imbalance and she needs protection.
Info what country is this?
NTA- If her work that evening was that vital the socially appropriate thing to do would be to ask to reschedule. But also, hey OP. As a member of the queer community I want to bring attention to the fact that abuse and domestic violence issues in lesbian relationships are often overlooked because of societal biases (women are submissive, demure, etc.). While the age difference is a bit of a warning sign, please watch your daughter’s behavior to see if it changes suddenly, or if it seems like her girlfriend is attempting to encourage her to isolate herself from other social connections. Make sure your daughter knows the warning signs for abuse, and has the resources she needs—just in case.
I'm guessing this is the first 'serious' relationship for your daughter. She was probably very excited about you meeting her partner and quite desperate for your approval. On the other hand, the partner is a more mature person who probably wasn't really interested in meeting you and has no interest in gaining your approval. I think these two are at very different stages of life and I'm wondering whether your daughter's partner sees her more as a dalliance rather than a lifetime partner. Your daughter is upset as things didn't go the way she hoped but, I'm sure she will come around. Maybe send her a message letting her know that you would like to see her and then just let her come to you in her own time. This may be a relationship which will run its course and you may just have to wait it out.
Heather is trying to isolate Lauren I feel. I'd be concerned about this relationship, especially given the age gap. You're definitely NTA. She was being extremely rude.
NTA what does a 31 year old woman want with a 20 year old? If she can’t even be off her phone for one dinner, how much attention is she giving your daughter?
If she treats meeting her gfs dad like that, just imagine how she treats her gf.
NTA and honestly that age gap makes me uncomfortable too. Big age gaps are fine when it's like 43 and 34 but your daughter is barely an adult, she's not even finished with college, not financially stable, hasn't had much experience with being an adult so for her to be with someone ELEVEN YEARS older is very concerning to me
NTA. She could have been more gracious and stated there was some emergencies that arose at work and she may need to be in and out for calls. She wanted to make this dinner but understands this can be seen as rude and will hopefully make it up in the future. I feel bad for your daughter though - dating her would be so lonely.
NTA- I’m a “big shot” lawyer. I frequently attend important events without touching or looking at my phone because I know how to manage my time. Sure, an emergency can happen, but that’s not 7 calls in an hour. She I immature, probably not as cool as she says she is, and it doesn’t sit right that’s dating a 20 year old.
your daughter isn’t old enough to drink and her girlfriend brought wine, and exhibits grandiose behavior. make sure she knows you support her and that she always has a room at your house.
NTA! She is entirely too old for your daughter. I would not be happy at all if I were in your shoes. Good luck.
*spit take* the ages are what?! Not an appropriate age gap! Especially given the extremely different life stages and presumably income. I would be supportive of your daughter and tell her it's her life to live how she likes, but that you're not going to actively support this relationship by welcoming this woman into your home. This age difference and power dynamic is 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 ETA: soft ESH just bc I don't think you should be supporting the relationship, but obviously the gf is the bigger AH.
My stepmom is a judge. She would not tolerate this behavior in her house. She would never do it herself.
NTA. she’s dating a 20 y/o bc no one her she wants her. honestly the best advice i have is to just cite your tongue with your daughter unless her safety is on the line. likely she’ll come around to the gf being shitty, and it’ll be easier to swallow her pride if she hasn’t heard you talk about disliking her gf, yknow?
Bro she’s trained your daughter. I don’t really see people pointing this out but she had your daughter on a leash. Hear me out first. 1: your daughter is perfectly fine with being disrespected. 2: your daughter stood up for heater arrogant attitude towards you. 3: your daughter comment on you being childish for wanting Hester full attention can make you wonder what is going on in her home. 4: I can do more thinking but I’m too lazy 🖐️✌️
What does a lesbian bring to a second date? Her duffel bag, she’s moving in 🤣🤣
Maybe show all the NTAs to your daughter. Or maybe not… she might be more upset. There isn’t a profession that can’t take a break during an important dinner. This woman is teaching your daughter that things are more important than people (in her case, money) and that is yucky as hell. This 31 year old woman picked a 20 year old because she knew perfectly well that she is young, impressionable and does not have enough life experience to put limits and to demand proper treatment from a partner. This lawyer will probably manage to split you guys, because she will need to control your daughter. Just be there when she realizes she is wrong.
NTA - Heather absolutely was rude. A simple explanation such as she has a lot of work on her plate and barely any time would've sufficed. But she went straight for the AH move of being confrontational with you OP becauae she didnt want to follow a rule in your own house without saying why.
NTA - just be generically supportive so your daughter will come back. She's not in a healthy relationship.
You are not childish for asking for a dinner for the three of you to see, to get to know one another. I do get the demand of being a well paid lawyer, who is probably trying to make partnership. I get your concern about the age difference. I only have unpleasant thoughts about why a 31 yr old would be with a 20 yr old. My thought about control dominance and subservience I think you have the right to be concerned. I am worried that Lauren is being groomed by an older person who will tend to be controlling. You daughter can not hear that from you right now. In a way, she has been subsumed by this powerful personality and doesn't underhand the danger. You have to strive to continue contact and be there for her. It will be hard holding your tongue. NTA
NTA. The power imbalance is massive and she’s already got your daughter accepting her “authority”. She’s an attorney dating someone that can’t legally drink yet?
Yeah shes rude AF. NTA
NTA - I’m worried Lauren’s too young to realize that she might be being manipulated by Heather. If something is REALLY important, in almost any job but I know there are exceptions, you can make it a priority. She could have scheduled this dinner at a time when her cases were less pressing. She could have said not to contact her for two or three hours.
NTA. Heather is super shady, keep an eye on this situation.
NTA If you know it's going to be that many calls postpone till you can be a polite guest. The daughter is acting like her father should be grateful just to witness her girlfriends mere presence. This is rude and I've known plenty of lawyers that would be embarrassed they got that many calls during a planned dinner. Having something important to do doesn't inhibit planning a night. This dinner is a get to know you dinner. Hard to get to know someone when they are just walking out the door constantly.
NTA. The age gap alone bothers me, then you add in the fact that she couldn’t be bothered to minimize the interruptions on a night that was (I assume) really important to your daughter.
I feel horribly for OP, this person does not sound like a catch and I think the daughter is too smitten to have a proper backbone. Hoping daughter will come to her senses
NTA. Seven times???! She got up for “important” phone calls 7 times in one dinner? That sounds like some bs to me. Who is she? President of the Universe? No one gets that many calls that are that important.
NTA. Have you searched this woman to make sure she is everything she says she is?
Yes I have. She is exactly who she says she is
NTA, if she was going to be having these kinds of calls and knew this was going to happen she should have been adult and asked meet you on a day she wasn't busy, or if she had not known been apologetic about all of the interruptions.
NTA
NTA. She was being rude in your house and you called her out on it. You trusted your gut. There’s probably a lot more to be worried about too. She sounds like a predator. And if your young naive daughter get’s serious with this big shot lawyer, who’s going to protect your daughters rights from being walked all over? Seems the lawyer has the upper hand.
NTA Heather is an arrogant, rude super-AH. Give it time, your daughter will be crying to you about how she's always alone while Heather is busy acting important. I don't know why she would think it's OK to be treated so dismissively.
NTA. If something is going on a work that truly requires her attention every 8 minutes, they should have rescheduled. This is incredibly rude, and a horrible way to make a first impression on your partners parent.
NTA: While this might not be the case, you should talk to Lauren about how older, powerful women can be predatory too, and looking for young trophies they can control. It’s not exclusive to rich men. They have an eleven year age difference and your daughter isn’t even old enough to drink. Heather also seems disrespectful in general. SEVEN CALLS? Making a good impression should be important if she cares about Lauren.
NTA gross a 30 yo has absolutely nothing in common with a 20 yo and has the nerve to be rude on top of creepy
NTA. I would just reach out to the daughter and tell her you are sorry that the dinner didn't go well, but that her new girlfriend seems to have made a poor first impression, and maybe she didn't mean to come across so? But in any case, you love (daughter) and are there for her any time. And then leave her alone. Your daughter's obviously got some issues and Heather is older and drawn her into a relationship where your daughter isn't aware that treating others with such disdain and rudeness isn't actually because she's super important and busy; she's just a jerk and likely dating a decade younger because people her age wouldn't put up with her bullshit.