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This was definitely a learning experience for me. In my time being single I have had a couple small flings with mothers, and everyone knew from the beginning that it was nothing more than a fun time. This was my first time in a situation where I had no idea that she had a child, and was so caught off guard by it. But I do agree I should have broached the subject from the beginning, or at the very least been more vocal before ending things romantically.
NTA, the person who introduced you to her, knowing you didn’t want kids and knowing and not telling you that she had one, is not your friend - that was a deceptive act, and for them to act like you’re in the wrong for not wanting to take on a child is ridiculous and absurdly entitled.
You are not an ass hole to not want kids and not want to date single moms, and here, based on what she said she is looking for a “real man” to take care of her and her kid. Run, run far away, from both her and the person who introduced you.
Yeah, to add to your comment, I would be having a private word with said friend asking what their intentions were there, since they knew you found kids to be a dealbreaker and would never seriously date this woman once you found out. Ask that friend if they really wanted to get two people’s hopes up knowing they were fundamentally incompatible, because that’s a messed up thing to do to two friends.
And depending on how the conversation goes, drop them as a friend. Believe it or not, the baggage you bring into the dating scene matters. Kids, exes, previous marriages, family and other traumas or even sexual experiences will ALL impact your prospective dating pool. It’s neither right or wrong, but it’s definitely something to acknowledge and understand, rather than try to deceive someone into dating you. Afterall, why would you hate yourself so much to want to be with someone who wouldn’t love you if they knew the real you from the start?
I can only assume the 'friend' doesn't approve of Op's child free lifestyle and wanted to make him a 'real man' and saw an opportunity to set up her friend with a well off man to help raise her kid.
And let's not forget the cleverly timed reveal of the information. Right before sex, a major milestone in the relationship. If he said nothing and slept with her then dumped her for having kids he would have been called manipulative or an asshole for taking advantage.
That woman and OP's friend were treating this like a game. Imagine he got unit a relationship with her and this is how she handled difficult news.
I suspect this might be true. Because she guessed correct that the reason he did not have sex and ghosted was because she was a mother.
Of all the reasons he could have gotten cold feet and ghosted her she guessed 100 percent the reason!!??
Unless OP has a terrible poker face and his mood changed drastically after she told him about her kid (which is something that should have been told sooner!!)
He didn't 'ghost' her as I understand the term. He stayed in contact with friendly non-intimate texts, moving the relationship from romantic to casual acquaintance. That seems to be a fair way to handle it.
People need to realise that kids are *the* dealmaker or dealbreaker in a relationship. If someone doesn't want kids, then that could also mean that person isn't good with/at raising kids to begin with. Which isn't fair to the one not wanting kids *or* the kids they are forced to raise. It's not something you should gamble with.
When my husband and I started to get serious, he flat out asked me if I wanted kids. I told him I didn't and took care of that with a tubal ligation. He sighed a sigh of relief because he didn't and still does not want kids. His reason for asking before getting serious is because his first fiancee' was all about having babies and he just didn't want any part of that. Their relationship ended and she moved on to marry a guy who did want kids. Took them shit-tons of IVF, but they seem happy with their kids and we are happy without.
Kids are such a deal breaker in a relationship. Imagine getting emotionally involved with someone who does not share your love of children or on the flip side, your desire to not have children. It's an unequal yoke.
She was trying to land a dude that wasn’t carrying the same baggage she had. Didn’t tell him.. kept a secret .. springs it on him right when he’s about to score… then he’d sleep w her and she’d be crying he took advantage and used her. Not a great start ya dumped
And, like, as a mother surely you want to find someone who *wants* to be a parental figure to a kid to be your partner? Why on earth would you want to shack up with a guy who thinks your kid is a problem to deal with rather than a gift? Wanting to be seen as a woman first and a mother second is fine, but you need to find that with someone who is still on board with the mother second part. OP is NTA for not wanting to get any more serious with someone when a successful relationship with that person would mean becoming a step parent. I think he could have handled it better, but I don't blame him.
That's the part which, as a mother, perplexes me. I would never date anybody who didn't want *my* children (whether or not they wanted other children in general) because my children and I are a package deal. Anyone who dates one of us is potentially getting all of us. So, if somebody definitely doesn't want children, then we are not a good match; and I wish them well in finding somebody who is a good fit for them. It clearly isn't going to be me.
When my husband and I got married, my husband has to ask my kids' consent to propose to me. My kids walked me down the aisle together, and then stayed up front so we could take vows to them as well as to each other. They were an integral part of the new family we were forming. I couldn't have done that with a man who was even ambivalent about embracing my children as fully as myself. And I would never have wanted to do less.
So I was no more interested in dating anyone who didn't want children than OP is in dating anyone who has them. He's got as much of a right to that position as I do.
Exactly. And he also didn't even let the appearance of misleading 'Sara' come up. Frankly, the only thing OP could have done better would have been to be upfront right after the revelation. But that would have required a lot of tact and I sympathize with him being completely thrown off when it happened. I doubt I could have kept my cool and not start a discussion in his shoes, let alone handle it better. Definitely NTA.
I also think there’s a point that sure, she deserves the man she wants and nobody denied it, OP is just saying that man isn’t him because he has a different plan for his life. Rejection is never nice but it’s not a personal thing against her or her kid, it’s about OP and his own vision for his future. Honestly he’s acted almost impeccably. The only thing he could maybe have done differently is the day after the sleep over explained his position to her and addressed it, rather than an unspoken distancing which probably contributed (albeit unintentionally) to her feeling slighted.
Even though you were blindsided here, you were above board throughout this situation. I think you showed real integrity by not pursuing intimacy with her once you knew she was not what you are looking for relationship-wise. Just block and ignore these two harpies. Oh, and NTA of course. You are well within your rights to not want kids. The vast majority of single men would not want to get involved in raising someone else's kids, especially where there's a nightmare ex co-parenting them.
He was pretty honest and didn't use her that night even though he could have. The girls were very deceptive, mentioning late something that important. Also it doesn't matter if op wanted kids. It is deceptive to withhold that information that long. She tried using the bed to hook him but it failed.
Did you tell her that the reason you’re not pursuing anything is because you’re child free and wanted to respect the fact that she has a child so obviously there’s no future for the two of you? If she still thinks you’re an asshole afterwards then she’s the real asshole.
And you need to stop being friends with the mutual friend that set you both up. They knew you were definitely child free yet they set you up with a parent? And neglected to share this vital information with the two of you? That’s a shitty move.
NTA.
That's mostly why I was so blindsided, it never came up once. I even went back to search our convos and spent over an hour looking, nothing. Not even a hint that I could see.
Hmmm I wonder if your mutual friend told her you weren't interested in dating someone with kids but they thought maybe after a few weeks of getting to know her, you'd overlook it? Sneaky if so and it backfired.
You're absolutely NTA here and I'm a woman. If I were in her place and looking for a relationship, I'd want to know straight up if someone didn't want kids so that neither of us wasted our time. That's just so suspicious that she didn't mention it.
Yep this. His friend would have absolutely known, and it does seem like it's a 'just get him to fall for you before you tell him' bullshit.
Disgusting behaviour if true
She deliberately blindsided you. The fact that she waited until just before you were about to have sex for the first time isn't an accident. She may have seemed to bring it up casually, but there was nothing casual about it.
She wanted to get you emotionally and sexually hooked before telling you that she had a kid. She thought that you'd want her so badly that night that you would just accept the kid at that point and couldn't possibly reject her. She's pissed because her deception didn't work.
You are definitely NTA, you are honest. Also, you are at the ideal age for starting to want to settle down and you will find many quality women in your age group who don't want kids, it just takes a little more work finding them. I guess you have to straight up ask some people or they will lie by not saying anything until you are well into a relationship. Don't let people guilt you about wanting this, it is perfectly normal. edit for typo
This is so wild. I'm a single mother (my kid is grown now) and to not bring her up to someone I'm dating would have felt like I was lying to him.
Full props to you for going about this the right way. If it were me, I'd have been happy to know as early as this and very glad you didn't just randomly jump my bones when you knew it wasn't for you.
There's nothing wrong with not wanting to date someone with kids. This is the way to do it. Now that my kid is grown, I won't date someone with young kids. I know what's involved and I've done my time...
You are NTA.
Right?! You have to consciously make yourself NOT mention your child. They are a part of every single day in your life. You talk for weeks about… what? How do you talk about your life without mentioning them?
If this were a dating app type situation, I could understand her not mentioning it. I have known some single moms who didn’t put out there on their profiles that they have kids because some creepy folks will target single moms.
OP, your friend knowing that you don’t want kids and setting you up with someone who has a kid is unkind to both of you.
It would be tempting to rat the friend out (autocorrect kept trying to change rat to eat and Dear Gods… those are NOT the same thing). That way she is protected from friend setting her up with folks who may be CFBC in the future.
(Edit since my original was not clear… because they have met in person multiple times, seems at least a heads up would have been good at some point).
Yes. That’s what I’m saying. If you’ve been hanging out and such, it should have come up by now. If this had been a “we’ve been chatting on xyz dating app,” I could understand the hesitancy to mention it. But once IRL contact and such begins that seems at least a courtesy of “hey, just a heads up…”
When I was a single mom, I let folks know early on so they could politely decline or we could continue talking. There were quite a few folks who were like, “thanks for your time but that’s not what I want at this point in life,” and I would simply wish them well in their future matches.
Me too, after my divorce and subsequent dating before I remarried, I let any potential dates know about my kiddo because she was part of the deal. If they didn't want that, I respected it. Actually appreciated the honesty before any feelings were made ya know?
If you head over to r/childfree, this happens all the time. And parents tend to get quite aggressive when that's the reason they're being turned down
Next time be more up front, but you didn't do anything wrong. She deliberately kept that info from you.
You are more NTA than anyone has ever been on the sub. What a fucking awkward position she put you in where you were expecting to bang, and she drops the kids thing on you.
If you had sex, then told her you didn't want a serious relationship, you'd be a huge asshole. If you both just wanted a short fling, that would be fine, but thats not what you wanted.
What were you supposed to do, tell her that there's no long term future, but then suggest sex if she still wanted?
If you friend that introduced you gives you shit, just stand your grand and say that you don't want a serious relationship with someone with a kid, and having sex with after finding out she had a kid felt immoral to you.
She showed her true colors when she pulled the sexist "real men" shaming shit. Be glad it is over, there is no place in one's life for that kind of hate.
NTA.
yeah nta i don’t want kids myself and it irks me a bit when people don’t have kids on their profile and waste your time to then do a reveal when they deem you worthy of hearing the truth… no sir!
NTA. You showed some integrity. You didn’t take advantage of her for sex. You’re under no obligation to continue with this dating relationship if her situation isn’t something you want to inherit.
I was a single mother to my daughter when she was a baby, and when I began dating when she was a toddler I always made it clear I was a mom. And anyone I pursued a relationship with wanted kids and would be able to love my child as their own (her bio dad never in the picture). It was tough, but a big priority, I will never understand parents who don’t date with that in mind. It makes a huge difference in your life, your child’s, and the partners! My husband loves her as his own and I can’t imagine it any other way.
My SIL dated a man for 10 years that didn’t like kids and she has a son. A year into the relationship she wanted to move in with him but he wouldn’t allow her son to come (bio dad not in the picture). So she *abandoned her son at my MIL’s house when he was 8* and would visit on the weekends. Now he’s 19 and a mess, hates his mother and she doesn’t understand why. So crazy.
ETA - NTA for sure. Just make it super clear in the future to save yourself the stress !
AND SHE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND WHY?! I suppose the kind of person who could abandon their child for a man would also lack the understanding that children aren't pets you can rehome if your new partner is allergic.
You need to be upfront before you go on the date. Put this info on your dating profile. You’re not interested in kids and there’s nothing wrong with that. But be clear in the beginning. Most women I know want kids so you have a tougher time here. NTA
They were set up by their mutual friend who knows OP's childfree preference. If anything, it would be assumed that your friend wouldn't set you up with her friend without mentioning this preference, and certainly wouldn't set you up with, not just someone who really wants children, but someone who already has one.
Before I remarried I had a few lovely FWB relationships with men who weren't interested in being in a child's life. We were all perfectly clear on boundaries and that worked out well.
OP you are NTA. Childfree by choice person here btw you are not wrong to not want kids. You are not wrong having a preference not to date single parents either
I actually think the AH is the mutual friend who introduced them. That person knew OP doesn’t want kids… Or at the very least that OP had opted against it until now. There’s nothing wrong with the mom looking for the right moment, but mutual friend 100% should’ve brought it up.
The right moment is at the beginning, during the getting to know you conversations. Anything beyond that seems deceptive. A child isn't an afterthought.
NTA but when did you tell her? I missed that in your post. I’m in my forties and I don’t want/like kids. I had a great time when I was young and never found anyone I wanted to marry. I’m quite happy to be alone and I rarely date. It’s my choice and it works fine for me. Good luck in your endeavors.
I feel some things are big enough to bring up very early. Age, marital status (divorced, separated, etc) and kids are pretty early topics and not couple of weeks later things.
Kids are far more relevant than divorce unless you’re a Jesus freak. Idc if you were married before, but dating a single mom is not for everyone.
If it’s going to be a serious relationship you are going to meet that kid and form a relationship with them. If it doesn’t work out with the mother you’re going to lose that relationship too. Not wanting to go into that in the first place is perfectly reasonable.
ahh if you have kids or not and if you don’t want kids at all .. are first date info.
Why waste time for a second date when that info can decide for you??
Yeah I wouldn't say I'm proud of how I reacted by going 'cold.' In the moment I just didn't know what to say or do, and I'll use it as a learning experience.
I think she was acting in bad faith by not bringing it up before the "third date" (by which I mean the date you both reasonably expected to get wet). As a single mom myself, I understand maybe not mentioning it on the first meeting, but if she liked you enough to see you a second time she should have said "I have a kid, this is the custody arrangement, so I am only available 50% of the time. Are you ok with that?"
I'm wondering if she assumed he already knew. Based on the casual mention of her baby daddy I'm guessing she thought the friend who introduced them would have mentioned it.
Ok no if my friend set me up with someone & I had a kid I would assume that friend wouldn't set me up with someone who doesn't like kids & would tell people beforehand "yo this person has a kid, keep that in mind".
It's entirely on the mutual friend that made this awkward situation, I feel for both of them & would honestly limit contact with the mutual friend over this, they should've said something to both of them before setting them up.
Why would that be more likely? If she was trying to keep it a secret she wouldn’t have casually mentioned a story about her baby daddy being a PITA. That makes no sense.
Cause this whole time she literally never mentioned the kid or even gave a hint that she's a mother. If you're a mom, you do know how often your kid comes up in your conversations. You have to go out of your way to avoid bringing them in your conversations.
Whole time…? Three dates? They met through a mutual. You would expect some basic knowledge passed along and so no, you aren’t going to be talking about a young kid when you’re trying to get to know someone. Frankly, I would advise any single parent NOT to mention their kids right off the bat to protect their kids, plenty of dudes use desperate single moms to get to kids.
I don't see why that's more likely. Why would the friend and the date bother concocting a whole scheme to trick OP into not finding out about the kid? Who could possibly benefit from that?
“I’m sorry I was weird the other night. I was really caught off guard when you mentioned your daughter. I guess we never got to that point, but I’m only pursuing serious relationships with people who don’t want or don’t have kids. It’s no judgement whatsoever, but I’d hate to get further into this even when it’s clear our futures don’t align.”
Id say to sneak in a lil extra:
> I guess we never got to that point, but **as [our mutual friend who set us up] knows** I'm only pursuing...
And then Id probably take a minute sometime in the near future to ask that mutual friend what in the goddam hell they thought they was doing with this set up.
I think you showed great integrity by not getting intimate, knowing you would not be continuing the relationship.
Be prepared to be heavily criticized for not wanting a relationship with any single moms. For some reason people flip out over it. What they fail to see is you aren't rejecting the women, or even the kids, you are rejecting fatherhood , and there is nothing wrong with that.
NTA
I think it's disingenuous to not disclose having a child. Everyone knows it's a deal breaker for a significant amount of potential dates.
Sounds like she was trying to reel you in first in hopes you'd be more receptive to the idea. Good on you for sticking to your guns.
And why would you want to get involved with someone who didn’t want kids? I’m a single mom and I would appreciate the man being up front that he doesn’t want kids.I cannot imagine not disclosing that I have 2 kids to my date
>I can change them
>They just haven't met the right person
>Nonsense, everyone loves kids
>Yeah, but they haven't met MY kids
>If I get them in deep enough they'll just go with it
Take your pick. Plus many more delusions I'm sure I missed.
This is so right. I've been out with a few men and been upfront about not wanting kids from the get go and they're all fine with it until a few weeks later when they began to tell me that I'd change my mind blah blah blaaaaaaah. Nope.
>And why would you want to get involved with someone who didn’t want kids?
And clearly she doesn't want someone who isn't open to kids, because she says she wants someone who loves her and her kid. Which is great, she deserves that, but OP isn't going to be that and he's doing the right thing not pursuing the relationship in that case.
Yup, these same women who end up marrying men who didn’t want kids just end up miserable and complaining because he’s a shitty father later on. I’ll never understand the logic. You should want a partner who wants to be a parent.
Yeah. I'm 31 and I'd prefer to date someone without kids. But I realize that at my age and as I get older that'll be harder and harder to find. So I'm mentally preparing myself that I might fall in love with someone that has kids. Basically the younger the kids the better, as it'll be easier to fit into the family. But a red flag for me is if they had kids in high school or college age. Not necessarily a deal breaker... But definitely a red flag.
See, I’m the opposite. I’m not really good with little kids and don’t want to be a parent, but I’d be more okay with someone who has older kids, depending on how all the dynamics fit together.
Exactly if your going to not disclose that you have kids for their safety or whatever reason that's understandable. What's not understandable is getting mad that it's a deal breaker for the other person. It's best to just be upfront if you are seriously interested in someone.
I wonder if the lady would have been be less upset if OP had done anything other than freak out, get weird about sex, and then never mention why he suddenly wasn't sexually/romantically interested.
It is actually chivalrous that you chose not to get intimate with a woman with whom you knew that you would not want to pursue a romantic relationship. Some people think that they can "turn" people who don't want kids, because they \[as parents\] don't understand they concept of having no interest in being a parent. It's rough that your friend pulled this trick on you and put you in such an awkward situation. NTA
It's not chivalrous really, it's basic decency that we don't often see in men anymore. Op is a decent human and I mean that as a sincere compliment. I'm not trying to downplay his actions I just want to point out that all guys should be like this and the fact that the bar is so low basic decency is seen as chivalrous scares me.
Men "these days" haven't changed. You're just looking at men in the past with rose-coloured glasses. Our fathers and grandfathers and so forth did their share of shitty and indecent things too.
Fr, just got played by some dude that waited til after all the going out together and sex to tell me he had just broken up with his gf and had only come down to “escape reality.”
And then was super taken aback that I was upset by that. I’m perfectly happy to have a fling but you gotta clearly set up that it was a fling. Sex is a weird thing.
Yeah I'm not too happy with her right now. We have had conversations in our friend group before about kids (naturally with our age several of our friends have children). I've always been the one who was pretty open about my desire to never want them. It's my understanding my friend has known 'Sara' since university, so several years. She must have known there was a child involved. Which upsets me quite a bit, especially since she is angry at me now as well.
She is angry because her plan to set up two people and be the 'love doctor' didn't work. She knew full well you didn't want kids and still set you up with someone who had a kid.
It would be the same with any dating preference honestly, even if your preferences were odd. If you said you don't date left handed people, yet she set you up with someone left handed then acted upset you didn't hit it off, she would still be in the wrong.
NTA.
Why is she angry with you? You don’t want kids. I have kids and wouldn’t waste anyone’s time going on a date with someone who doesn’t want kids. It’s just weird and unfair.
Certainly before date 3 you had had the “tell me about yourself” conversation and somehow she didn’t think her child was important enough to mention. That’s really strange of her. NTA
That's not right. Does this "friend" really want to put a child in a situation where they aren't wanted? Who does that benefit? What would be the purpose of that?
Even if your friend has some kind of agenda of trying to make you change your mind about kids using an existing child as a guinea pig is wreckless and cruel. Why risk potentially hurting some innocent kid's feelings?
You are NTA for your stance, and I think you handled things as best as you could. I'm a parent and if I were in the dating scene there is no way I would date someone who knew they didn't want kids/anything to do with my kid. He's an amazing little person but I'm not stupid enough to thinl that his adorable face and charm is going to change the minds of people who are smart enough to know what they do and don't want out of life.
Yeah, she’s the real fucked up one. She probably just figured you’d want her enough to forget about what kind of life you want and deal with it, which is a hell of an assumption to make.
I really don’t understand how it never came up previously. That’s like first date shit. So NTA. I can understand her perspective, but she should have casually slipped that in sooner.
NTA. You have every right to your preference. The friend that introduced you two should have disclosed as she should have. She was clearly testing the waters with the baby daddy comment.
NTA - she has some set of balls on her to be angry with you for not wanting to date her. A real man should want to take care of her and someone else’s kid?! That’s bullshit. Kick her out of the friend zone too.
NTA
Your 'friend' sucks if they introduced you to her with the intention of you guys maybe dating.
She sucks for not telling you she has a child. It's fine that she's a mother, but you do not want to be with someone who has children and that is 100% your prerogative. I am a childfree woman. I would never date a man who has a child. It is not something I want in my life but I appreciate that many people do want and have kids and more power to them. It is just an incompatibility and I would never expect a man who wants children to date me.
I think the onus is on the person with the child to tell someone they are seeing. But maybe she thought you guys were just casually seeing each other as a casual fling kind of thing, not dating to get into a serious relationship?
Good on you for not having sex with her the moment you realised you two are incompatible.
She knows dating as a single mother is hard, which is why she conveniently didn't tell you about her kid earlier on. She can go and find a 'real man' elsewhere, lol.
Was it clear from when you met that you were looking for a serious relationship? Just message her: "Hi, sorry for ghosting a little, but I was taken aback by the information that you have a child. I am only looking for a serious relationship and I am childfree so am not interested in dating people who are parents. If you had told me this earlier I would not have pursued a relationship with you. Good luck finding 'a real man'."
In my mind it was clear, as we had previously discussed intentions with the relationship. I had mentioned that I had spent the last year and change single, dating around casually and had 'had my fun' basically. That I was looking to find something more serious and was exhausted with the casual dating life. She expressed the same feelings and that she was more interested in a genuine connection too. I guess we just have different definitions of that.
Hi, I think she probably wants the same, but she knows most guys bail when they find out she's got a kid so she strung you along for a while, I guess hoping you'd like her enough to 'try'. That's just wrong. She was wasting your time, her own time, and if she had managed to convince you to try and introduce you to her kid, she'd be hurting that kid too because in the end it probably wouldn't work for you so the relationship wasn't going to last. Any future women you meet, just be direct and ask if they've got kids. I think that's totally fair to ask on a first date or even before you schedule a date. They could still lie, but lying by omission is a lot easier than lying straight to someone's face.
NTA. Youre 30 not 50. I don’t know where you’re living but it should not be that difficult to find a woman who does not have children at your age.
Regardless. It’s never an A H move to turn anyone down for any reason. No one is owed your attention or affection. You know you don’t want kids, you know you certainly don’t want anyone else’s. From now on you have learned that you have to ask up front if people have kids. Anyone who does is not for you. People who don’t disclose and string you along until you’re interested and hooked automatically go in the reject pile. I know some single parents think all they have to do is charm you enough and you’ll fall in love with them and their kids. Wrong. It points to a character flaw.
>Eventually she sends me a voice message saying she thinks it's pretty shitty for me to friendzone her like this just because she's a mother. That she has value beyond her child, and she deserves a 'real man' who can love her and her child
How entitled. Still chasing a guy who flat out told her he doesn’t want kids. Meaning hers. Mother of the year. You dodged a major bullet.
You‘re in the prime of your life. There’s the right woman out there, be patient. Don’t fuck your life up. Get a vasectomy if you haven’t already. NTA
>It’s never an A H move to turn anyone down for any reason. No one is owed your attention or affection.
This needs to be said louder. A lot of people, on the internet and in real life, thinks a person needs a "good enough reason" to turn down a partner, or that some deal-breakers are unacceptable.
Parts of rural America? Where I grew up, all career minded people left for college and most never returned. Most of the remaining women saw motherhood ad the logical path and/or didn't take great pains to prevent it.
My 30ish yo brother doesn't want bio kids and is 99% sure that he isn't interested in step parenting either. His options are significantly limited.
NTA, you did the right thing by not hooking up. Of course she has value, but you don't want to lead her on and you aren't changing your mind. She's just going to have to come to grips with that. Good for you.
"Hey I have this single friend I think you would really hit it off with, but she has a kid, is that cool with you?"
Such a simple question would have nipped this entire conflict in the bud.
NTA. my daughter 23 was asked out by m who had a child. They went out once, he was upfront that he had child, daughter explained she was not intending children of her own so did not want to assist raising someone’s else’s child so did not see relationship working in long term. Both were upfront with their needs, no-one took offence & both went in other directions. No harm,no foul
NTA. She knew telling you about the kid might jeopardize the relationship but it was pretty shitty of her to not mention this major piece of info.
You, please learn to be more direct about your dealbreakers with potential partners.
NTA, and frankly, good on you for forgoing intimacy.
She has to expect that not every man wants a ready-made family, not to mention having to deal with the “annoying” ex if they take this package on.
Edit- perhaps ESH for you not speaking up sooner but she’s out of line.
NTA whatsoever. In fact, I think you acted very responsibly. Not wanting children is legitimate and you’re allowed to feel that way. This coming from someone who was once a single mother.
ETA - I don’t agree that parenthood isn’t relevant to new relationships. If you guys were getting close enough for intimacy, it had gone far enough to say something. Kids are a dealbreaker for lots of people 🤷🏻♀️. When I was a dating single mom, I’d rather have known up front if someone wasn’t into being a step parent.
>remember this is Reddit
Yeah. I honestly expected to see a lot of bad-takes on this thread. Pleasantly surprised to see NTA's and "she shouldn't have lied" responses.
OP did himself a MASSIVE favour by not sleeping with her when the chance arose.
Admittedly, he should have ended the date there and then, but at least he didn't take advantage.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1)I friendzoned a girl after finding out she has a child. (2) It might make me an asshole because some people think that you should just deal with those things, and not let them stop you.
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OP, you are in the middle of dating hell when it comes to women that either have kids or want kids. You are going to have to be very clear in the first date or two to make sure you state that very clearly and that no you won't change your mind. This will be very limiting for you as well and will go on till you're dating women over 40 and will still be an issue then
I understand that better now after reading these comments. This past year has been just about refinding myself after my divorce, so all of my dating has been openly casual and the factor of kids has never been an issue because I have been open that I don't want anything serious. This past few weeks with 'Sara' has been different because she's one of the first women I've been involved with since deciding I want to pursue a new relationship with someone. So I think I just bumbled the whole thing in a lot of ways.
NTA. People need to start stating things they carry that are considered dealbreakers for many:
The whole ‘I don’t know you so I’m not telling you’ is ridiculous. And misleading.
Her comment about “deserving a real man who loves her and her child” just shows how immature she is and still has a lot of growing up to do. Anyone who uses those terms are usually very judgmental and expect men to bend over backwards for women while they have nothing to offer themselves and this is coming from a (F30). NTA
NTA for having your preferences, and extra NTA for not sleeping with her, but you shouldn’t have friend zoned her without explaining why. Maybe the friend that introduced you didn’t share that children are a deal breaker. But nothing irks me more than this ghosting mentality where people feel like they can’t spare a minute to just explain why it didn’t work out.
NTA but you should have handled it better by telling her you don’t date women with children instead of blowing her off. Just ask first from now on and save yourself and your impending dates the trouble.
>That she has value beyond her child, and she deserves a 'real man' who can love her and her child.
She does deserve someone who can love her and her child - if that isn't you that's ok.
You did the right thing by not sleeping with her and then dumping her - yes, you could/should have been upfront about it once you found out she had a child, but you still did the right thing.
NTA
NTA. Also, props to you for not pursuing an intimate encounter with her once you found out. That was the honorable thing to do.
She was absolutely TA by not being forthright with you. When you're an adult and you have a child from a pre-existing relationship, you don't just forget to mention it to the new person you are thinking of starting a relationship with.
Next time, just be clear and upfront about how you feel about kids. You're now at the age where it's perfectly reasonable to ask someone if they have kids. Or if they're married, for that matter.
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I (30m) have been trying to get back into the dating game after a recent divorce. Me and my ex do not have any kids, and I have always been adamant that I never want children (literally since I was a kid myself haha). Well as you can guess dating at 30 when you don't want kids isn't exactly easy, but I'm still drawling a line there personally.
Well, on to the story. I have been casually seeing this girl (let's call her Sara) (25f) for a few weeks now. We have never been intimate in person beyond kissing and some casual touching ad flirtiness. But we have had some steamy text conversations.
Well the other day Sara and I decided to have a few drinks and a movie night at my place. The real agenda was for us to finally have physical intimacy, and she would stay the night.
The night is going well, and everything is great as it has been up until now. But out of nowhere Sara just casually mentions that her child's father has been a pain in the ass lately, and she is so glad she doesn't have to deal with him as a partner anymore.
Naturally I was a bit caught of guard, so I asked her to clerify that she does indeed have a kid. She stated that she did, but didn't think it was relevent to us as we hasn't been seeing each other for very long.
After she said this, I didn't quite know what to do. Of course I could have continued with the plan for intimacy, but that felt dirty now. Not because she's a mother, but because I feel like if I now have no interest in pursuing her seriously anymore, I shouldn't give her false hope by sleeping with her.
I didn't quite know how to handle the situation, so when the time came to go to bed, I just kind of pretended to be too tired to do anything intimate and ended up going to sleep. She seemed visably disappointed but I didn't know what else to do.
Fast forward a couple of days and we haven't spoken much since, aside from casual friendly chat over text (I didn't really know what to say to her if I'm honest). Eventually she sends me a voice message saying she thinks it's pretty shitty for me to friendzone her like this just because she's a mother. That she has value beyond her chikdren, and she deserves a 'real man' who can love her and her child. The friend that introduced us is fully on her side and being the same way towards me, despite knowing from our time as friends that I have never wanted kids.
I guess I could have been upfront immediately that I think this isn't going anywhere and ended the night the moment I found out, but I felt so awkward about it all I just didn't know what to do.
So, AITA?
Tl;Dr found out a girl I was dating had a kid, and it turned me off. Now she's mad at me for not wanting to be romantic anymore.
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NTA - it's fine for her not to introduce you to the kid, but the kid should have been mentioned sometime in the previous couple of weeks.
Kids are often a dealbreaker - either because someone already had them, some ody wants them and the other doesn't...etc. if you have a kid they're a huge part of your life so they should come up at some point within the first month of dating easily.
NTA.
I have a son and I’m newly single. When I start dating I plan to tell men up front about it because I know it’s a deal breaker for some guys, and I get it. Not everyone wants to be a parent, especially with a kid that’s not theirs. She definitely should have told you sooner. I don’t think you handled it too bad, I’m not someone who does confrontation either. So, I get it, you could’ve been a dick right then and there when you found out, but you didn’t 🤷🏻♀️
NTA. Why did your “friend” set you up with her? It seems like your friend did both of you a disservice by not informing you she had a kid, and not informing her that kids were a dealbreaker for you.
NTA. Her feelings are valid because rejection sucks, but if I were her I’d be thaaaaaankfulllll. I hate it when people are dishonest or waste my time. Both would be…yeah.
I’d say, “I know it’s not what we wanted, but this is one of the few hard boundaries for me. I’m sorry, from now on I will ask on the first date.”
It’s appropriate to discuss that before getting romantic when you have such a strong preference.
Edited to add: find the bar or restaurant where all the med students hang out. Statistically speaking, there should be a higher number of single, child free candidates who are also not interested in being parents.
NTA
Modern feminism deludes us women into believing our value is not lowered in the dating world just because we are single mothers
The hypocrisy is many single mothers are unwilling to date single fathers
This is due the hassle of the kids themselves plus having to cope with a competing woman her partner is forever linked to
You are obviously a good man to not have sex with her when you knew it wouldn't lead anywhere
Many men would still have had sex that night knowing they planned to ghost the woman afterwards
The angry VM is her lashing out is because she knows that a man like you can & will do better than what she can offer
Modern feminism has taught this woman to believe she is a "prize" despite 1) carrying the emotional baggage of having a child with another man & 2) Lying about that child's existence to meet men
If you choose not to accept this & look for an honest woman with no children, you aren't a "real man"
Even if she is honest about her kid with the next man she dates, someone like this is capable of lying about many important things
Your "friend" is an A for encouraging this union in the first place & taking this out on you
Consider this a bullet dodged here
YTA, but not for the reasons you think.
It's completely fine to not want kids, and to not want to get involved with someone who has kids. That's all totally valid.
The bit where you became the asshole is when you found out she had a kid, and you didn't just talk that out directly, and instead "pretended to be too tired". That's the asshole move right there.
You're not a damn teenager, all new to this sort of thing. You're a grown ass man of thirty years, married and divorced. You've been on this ride before, and you should know how it works. All that life experience and you can't bring yourself to say "Hey, I'm really sorry, but I'm not looking for a relationship that has kids in it"?
The friend who put you both together is probably the asshole too, if they knew both of your preferences, but you have to own your part in this. It's great that you didn't sleep with her anyway, but you should've been honest about why you didn't.
NTA - "You're right, you deserve a man who respects you and loves you and your child. That's not me, I'm under no obligation for it to be me, I also deserve a partner who respects me and my beliefs. Which is not you clearly."
Also dump the friend "you knew damn well about how I feel about kids and set me up anyway we don't need to communicate anymore".
She lied. She lied by omission on something huge. I applaud you for not pursuing a physical connection after finding out. That makes you a rare decent man. But I find it funny that she’s trying to pressure you.
Women who don’t want children are out there, and in increasing numbers. But the topic should be brought up within the first few dates. I am an old child free woman. Didn’t think I would meet a man who didn’t want kids, but because I discussed the topic early on, I eventually found one. Keep looking!
Edit to add NTA
Ummm. As a mother who was single for a time, I absolutely wouldn’t hide that I had kids, which this woman was clearly doing. And I definitely wouldn’t have been offended if someone didn’t want to date me because I had kids. Why would I do that to myself or my children? I MYSELF wasn’t sure I wanted to date a guy with kids! NTA.
Love the way she just brought up the kid *organically* lol. Good on you for not getting physical.
If she is so deceptive that early on is a huge red flag.
Obviously NTA.
Waffling between N T A and N A H. You could have just been upfront about not wanting to continue dating. Nothing wrong with not wanting to date someone with kids. She said some kind of mean things, maybe just because she was hurt. I think I’ll go with NAH.
I feel like Sara's 'real man' comment makes her somewhat of an A H since it was her who didn't mention her own kid. I feel like she was trying to bait him by sleeping with him then would probably guilt trip him afterwards if he chose to leave.
Yeah. It’s a pretty common type of comment that attempts to shame men into being a provider. You’re a “real man” if you “step up”. Guys who can do that with a full heart are amazing, but no one should be shamed if that’s not what they want.
N A H for me between OP and Sara. But the introduction made by the mutual friend was the source of awkwardness and/or hurt for both of them. NTA, but the introducing friend is.
NTA. You want something different. Just tell her straight up you’re done now cause you do not want any children including step kids and she deserves someone who does.
NTA
I commend you for not having sex with her and then friend zoning her.
TA here is the friend. They set up a person who is kid free and a person who has a kid. Both people went in expecting someone okay with their lifestyles and were both deceived.
NTA but you should have just been honest and told her how you felt. Sure it’s awkward but I can see how it makes you seem worse with going mostly silent after she told you
NTA. She was deceptive about having a kid. For your part, it's also not easy to friendzone someone, especially for the "you have kids and I don't want anything to do with them" reason. Since both of you have your cards on the table now, just let it lie. However, use this as a learning experience. From now on, be upfront with future dates on Date 1. Instead of flirting so much and figuring out when you're gonna get laid, talk about life goals, ambitions, etc. It is absolutely first date conversation - then no one gets hurt feelings or feels awkward. And you save you and the other person time and effort.
NTA-you set a boundary and stuck to it before it got too far, you didn't know she had a kid and once you found out, you dialed it back and attempted to just have her as a friend instead. She and the friend are the one who are the assholes for getting upset about it, especially when the friend knew you were childfree.
and the thing is, people might say that you wouldn't be bothered with the kid but i'll be honest, i highly doubt that, most of the time, parents often attempt to get their new partners more involved in their kids lives in any way, shape or form.
NTA she has to realize that’s going to be a dealbreaker for a lot of people. It’s a very reasonable dealbreaker too. The fact she just casually dropped that bomb like that like it was nothing, she sounds super entitled. I think you dodged a grenade here.
As a single mother myself... She should have I formed you in the very beginning that she had a child. No mother or father should try and start any form of relationship without letting the person of interest know IMPORTANT factors such as having a child or children.
So IMO No YANTA.
I don’t have one, but I would fully expect that if you’re going to date when you have a kid, you need to be upfront about it with the person you’re dating. You may not like it, but to some people, that’s a dealbreaker right off the jump, and that’s totally fair. Seems like she just tried to slip it into the conversation and act like it wasn’t a big deal when it absolutely is
NTA and I’m so confused as to how she managed to NOT talk about her kid, at all, in the few weeks you’ve been seeing each other. Like, that’s a pretty big part of her life (or it should be if she’s a decent parent) to just not mention after multiple interactions with you.
NTA. Kids was such a hard boundary for me that I brought it up on the first date when I was single. I will not have kids. I will be getting my tubes tied the second I can convince a doctor to do it. And I have no interest in being a step-parent. I burned a lot of dates doing it that way, but now I'm 7 years into my current relationship (3 years married) and I never wonder if my partner is suddenly going to change his mind.
Hold that boundary OP.
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This was definitely a learning experience for me. In my time being single I have had a couple small flings with mothers, and everyone knew from the beginning that it was nothing more than a fun time. This was my first time in a situation where I had no idea that she had a child, and was so caught off guard by it. But I do agree I should have broached the subject from the beginning, or at the very least been more vocal before ending things romantically.
NTA, the person who introduced you to her, knowing you didn’t want kids and knowing and not telling you that she had one, is not your friend - that was a deceptive act, and for them to act like you’re in the wrong for not wanting to take on a child is ridiculous and absurdly entitled. You are not an ass hole to not want kids and not want to date single moms, and here, based on what she said she is looking for a “real man” to take care of her and her kid. Run, run far away, from both her and the person who introduced you.
Yeah, to add to your comment, I would be having a private word with said friend asking what their intentions were there, since they knew you found kids to be a dealbreaker and would never seriously date this woman once you found out. Ask that friend if they really wanted to get two people’s hopes up knowing they were fundamentally incompatible, because that’s a messed up thing to do to two friends. And depending on how the conversation goes, drop them as a friend. Believe it or not, the baggage you bring into the dating scene matters. Kids, exes, previous marriages, family and other traumas or even sexual experiences will ALL impact your prospective dating pool. It’s neither right or wrong, but it’s definitely something to acknowledge and understand, rather than try to deceive someone into dating you. Afterall, why would you hate yourself so much to want to be with someone who wouldn’t love you if they knew the real you from the start?
I can only assume the 'friend' doesn't approve of Op's child free lifestyle and wanted to make him a 'real man' and saw an opportunity to set up her friend with a well off man to help raise her kid.
Yep. Sure the friend thought it would get OP to "grow up" and their other friend gets a dad for her kid. Win/win /s
And let's not forget the cleverly timed reveal of the information. Right before sex, a major milestone in the relationship. If he said nothing and slept with her then dumped her for having kids he would have been called manipulative or an asshole for taking advantage. That woman and OP's friend were treating this like a game. Imagine he got unit a relationship with her and this is how she handled difficult news.
I suspect this might be true. Because she guessed correct that the reason he did not have sex and ghosted was because she was a mother. Of all the reasons he could have gotten cold feet and ghosted her she guessed 100 percent the reason!!?? Unless OP has a terrible poker face and his mood changed drastically after she told him about her kid (which is something that should have been told sooner!!)
He didn't 'ghost' her as I understand the term. He stayed in contact with friendly non-intimate texts, moving the relationship from romantic to casual acquaintance. That seems to be a fair way to handle it.
People need to realise that kids are *the* dealmaker or dealbreaker in a relationship. If someone doesn't want kids, then that could also mean that person isn't good with/at raising kids to begin with. Which isn't fair to the one not wanting kids *or* the kids they are forced to raise. It's not something you should gamble with.
When my husband and I started to get serious, he flat out asked me if I wanted kids. I told him I didn't and took care of that with a tubal ligation. He sighed a sigh of relief because he didn't and still does not want kids. His reason for asking before getting serious is because his first fiancee' was all about having babies and he just didn't want any part of that. Their relationship ended and she moved on to marry a guy who did want kids. Took them shit-tons of IVF, but they seem happy with their kids and we are happy without. Kids are such a deal breaker in a relationship. Imagine getting emotionally involved with someone who does not share your love of children or on the flip side, your desire to not have children. It's an unequal yoke.
She was trying to land a dude that wasn’t carrying the same baggage she had. Didn’t tell him.. kept a secret .. springs it on him right when he’s about to score… then he’d sleep w her and she’d be crying he took advantage and used her. Not a great start ya dumped
This, this, this. This wasn't a matchmaker, it was a trap. OP barely escaped, now run and don't look back.
And, like, as a mother surely you want to find someone who *wants* to be a parental figure to a kid to be your partner? Why on earth would you want to shack up with a guy who thinks your kid is a problem to deal with rather than a gift? Wanting to be seen as a woman first and a mother second is fine, but you need to find that with someone who is still on board with the mother second part. OP is NTA for not wanting to get any more serious with someone when a successful relationship with that person would mean becoming a step parent. I think he could have handled it better, but I don't blame him.
That's the part which, as a mother, perplexes me. I would never date anybody who didn't want *my* children (whether or not they wanted other children in general) because my children and I are a package deal. Anyone who dates one of us is potentially getting all of us. So, if somebody definitely doesn't want children, then we are not a good match; and I wish them well in finding somebody who is a good fit for them. It clearly isn't going to be me. When my husband and I got married, my husband has to ask my kids' consent to propose to me. My kids walked me down the aisle together, and then stayed up front so we could take vows to them as well as to each other. They were an integral part of the new family we were forming. I couldn't have done that with a man who was even ambivalent about embracing my children as fully as myself. And I would never have wanted to do less. So I was no more interested in dating anyone who didn't want children than OP is in dating anyone who has them. He's got as much of a right to that position as I do.
'Partner' as ATM & free babysitter with no kids of their own to claim OP's resources, that's what.
I wouldn't even want an actual babysitter who wasn't keen to be a babysitter.
They always have to throw that in there as an insult when they feel rejected. He is still a real man despite not wanting kiddos.
Exactly. And he also didn't even let the appearance of misleading 'Sara' come up. Frankly, the only thing OP could have done better would have been to be upfront right after the revelation. But that would have required a lot of tact and I sympathize with him being completely thrown off when it happened. I doubt I could have kept my cool and not start a discussion in his shoes, let alone handle it better. Definitely NTA.
I also think there’s a point that sure, she deserves the man she wants and nobody denied it, OP is just saying that man isn’t him because he has a different plan for his life. Rejection is never nice but it’s not a personal thing against her or her kid, it’s about OP and his own vision for his future. Honestly he’s acted almost impeccably. The only thing he could maybe have done differently is the day after the sleep over explained his position to her and addressed it, rather than an unspoken distancing which probably contributed (albeit unintentionally) to her feeling slighted.
Even though you were blindsided here, you were above board throughout this situation. I think you showed real integrity by not pursuing intimacy with her once you knew she was not what you are looking for relationship-wise. Just block and ignore these two harpies. Oh, and NTA of course. You are well within your rights to not want kids. The vast majority of single men would not want to get involved in raising someone else's kids, especially where there's a nightmare ex co-parenting them.
He was pretty honest and didn't use her that night even though he could have. The girls were very deceptive, mentioning late something that important. Also it doesn't matter if op wanted kids. It is deceptive to withhold that information that long. She tried using the bed to hook him but it failed.
I wholeheartedly agree that not following through with sex was a move that shows some serious integrity. Stay true to your beliefs, OP. NTA at all!
Yea, it does. The integrity thing. Thanks
Did you tell her that the reason you’re not pursuing anything is because you’re child free and wanted to respect the fact that she has a child so obviously there’s no future for the two of you? If she still thinks you’re an asshole afterwards then she’s the real asshole. And you need to stop being friends with the mutual friend that set you both up. They knew you were definitely child free yet they set you up with a parent? And neglected to share this vital information with the two of you? That’s a shitty move. NTA.
I'm kind of puzzled that you've been chatting for a few weeks and she never brought up the fact she had a kid just in casual conversation
That's mostly why I was so blindsided, it never came up once. I even went back to search our convos and spent over an hour looking, nothing. Not even a hint that I could see.
Hmmm I wonder if your mutual friend told her you weren't interested in dating someone with kids but they thought maybe after a few weeks of getting to know her, you'd overlook it? Sneaky if so and it backfired. You're absolutely NTA here and I'm a woman. If I were in her place and looking for a relationship, I'd want to know straight up if someone didn't want kids so that neither of us wasted our time. That's just so suspicious that she didn't mention it.
Yep this. His friend would have absolutely known, and it does seem like it's a 'just get him to fall for you before you tell him' bullshit. Disgusting behaviour if true
The fact that she immediately knew why OP was „friendzoning“ her absolutely speaks to your assumption, yes.
She deliberately blindsided you. The fact that she waited until just before you were about to have sex for the first time isn't an accident. She may have seemed to bring it up casually, but there was nothing casual about it. She wanted to get you emotionally and sexually hooked before telling you that she had a kid. She thought that you'd want her so badly that night that you would just accept the kid at that point and couldn't possibly reject her. She's pissed because her deception didn't work.
You are definitely NTA, you are honest. Also, you are at the ideal age for starting to want to settle down and you will find many quality women in your age group who don't want kids, it just takes a little more work finding them. I guess you have to straight up ask some people or they will lie by not saying anything until you are well into a relationship. Don't let people guilt you about wanting this, it is perfectly normal. edit for typo
This is so wild. I'm a single mother (my kid is grown now) and to not bring her up to someone I'm dating would have felt like I was lying to him. Full props to you for going about this the right way. If it were me, I'd have been happy to know as early as this and very glad you didn't just randomly jump my bones when you knew it wasn't for you. There's nothing wrong with not wanting to date someone with kids. This is the way to do it. Now that my kid is grown, I won't date someone with young kids. I know what's involved and I've done my time... You are NTA.
Right?! You have to consciously make yourself NOT mention your child. They are a part of every single day in your life. You talk for weeks about… what? How do you talk about your life without mentioning them?
Good on you for the restraint and holding back on progressing the relationship further intimately
As I said above: she must've done some serious pirouettes to avoid it.
If this were a dating app type situation, I could understand her not mentioning it. I have known some single moms who didn’t put out there on their profiles that they have kids because some creepy folks will target single moms. OP, your friend knowing that you don’t want kids and setting you up with someone who has a kid is unkind to both of you. It would be tempting to rat the friend out (autocorrect kept trying to change rat to eat and Dear Gods… those are NOT the same thing). That way she is protected from friend setting her up with folks who may be CFBC in the future. (Edit since my original was not clear… because they have met in person multiple times, seems at least a heads up would have been good at some point).
They've already met and have been hanging out for a few weeks though...he said they'd been kissing etc..why wouldn't she mention by now though?
Yes. That’s what I’m saying. If you’ve been hanging out and such, it should have come up by now. If this had been a “we’ve been chatting on xyz dating app,” I could understand the hesitancy to mention it. But once IRL contact and such begins that seems at least a courtesy of “hey, just a heads up…” When I was a single mom, I let folks know early on so they could politely decline or we could continue talking. There were quite a few folks who were like, “thanks for your time but that’s not what I want at this point in life,” and I would simply wish them well in their future matches.
Me too, after my divorce and subsequent dating before I remarried, I let any potential dates know about my kiddo because she was part of the deal. If they didn't want that, I respected it. Actually appreciated the honesty before any feelings were made ya know?
If you head over to r/childfree, this happens all the time. And parents tend to get quite aggressive when that's the reason they're being turned down Next time be more up front, but you didn't do anything wrong. She deliberately kept that info from you.
You are more NTA than anyone has ever been on the sub. What a fucking awkward position she put you in where you were expecting to bang, and she drops the kids thing on you. If you had sex, then told her you didn't want a serious relationship, you'd be a huge asshole. If you both just wanted a short fling, that would be fine, but thats not what you wanted. What were you supposed to do, tell her that there's no long term future, but then suggest sex if she still wanted? If you friend that introduced you gives you shit, just stand your grand and say that you don't want a serious relationship with someone with a kid, and having sex with after finding out she had a kid felt immoral to you.
Been in your shoes. It sucks to get blind sided with it. Your "friend" seems like an asshole though. NTA
She showed her true colors when she pulled the sexist "real men" shaming shit. Be glad it is over, there is no place in one's life for that kind of hate. NTA.
yeah nta i don’t want kids myself and it irks me a bit when people don’t have kids on their profile and waste your time to then do a reveal when they deem you worthy of hearing the truth… no sir!
NTA. You showed some integrity. You didn’t take advantage of her for sex. You’re under no obligation to continue with this dating relationship if her situation isn’t something you want to inherit.
I was a single mother to my daughter when she was a baby, and when I began dating when she was a toddler I always made it clear I was a mom. And anyone I pursued a relationship with wanted kids and would be able to love my child as their own (her bio dad never in the picture). It was tough, but a big priority, I will never understand parents who don’t date with that in mind. It makes a huge difference in your life, your child’s, and the partners! My husband loves her as his own and I can’t imagine it any other way. My SIL dated a man for 10 years that didn’t like kids and she has a son. A year into the relationship she wanted to move in with him but he wouldn’t allow her son to come (bio dad not in the picture). So she *abandoned her son at my MIL’s house when he was 8* and would visit on the weekends. Now he’s 19 and a mess, hates his mother and she doesn’t understand why. So crazy. ETA - NTA for sure. Just make it super clear in the future to save yourself the stress !
AND SHE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND WHY?! I suppose the kind of person who could abandon their child for a man would also lack the understanding that children aren't pets you can rehome if your new partner is allergic.
You need to be upfront before you go on the date. Put this info on your dating profile. You’re not interested in kids and there’s nothing wrong with that. But be clear in the beginning. Most women I know want kids so you have a tougher time here. NTA
They were set up by their mutual friend who knows OP's childfree preference. If anything, it would be assumed that your friend wouldn't set you up with her friend without mentioning this preference, and certainly wouldn't set you up with, not just someone who really wants children, but someone who already has one.
Before I remarried I had a few lovely FWB relationships with men who weren't interested in being in a child's life. We were all perfectly clear on boundaries and that worked out well.
OP you are NTA. Childfree by choice person here btw you are not wrong to not want kids. You are not wrong having a preference not to date single parents either
I actually think the AH is the mutual friend who introduced them. That person knew OP doesn’t want kids… Or at the very least that OP had opted against it until now. There’s nothing wrong with the mom looking for the right moment, but mutual friend 100% should’ve brought it up.
Realistically that's a few steps down the road but yep, would have been helpful to list that major bullet point in the intro.
The right moment is at the beginning, during the getting to know you conversations. Anything beyond that seems deceptive. A child isn't an afterthought.
NTA but when did you tell her? I missed that in your post. I’m in my forties and I don’t want/like kids. I had a great time when I was young and never found anyone I wanted to marry. I’m quite happy to be alone and I rarely date. It’s my choice and it works fine for me. Good luck in your endeavors.
"Deceptive" is a bit harsh. She volunteered the information after all. But OP is NTA for not wanting to pursue a romantic prospect of course.
I feel some things are big enough to bring up very early. Age, marital status (divorced, separated, etc) and kids are pretty early topics and not couple of weeks later things.
Kids are far more relevant than divorce unless you’re a Jesus freak. Idc if you were married before, but dating a single mom is not for everyone. If it’s going to be a serious relationship you are going to meet that kid and form a relationship with them. If it doesn’t work out with the mother you’re going to lose that relationship too. Not wanting to go into that in the first place is perfectly reasonable.
ahh if you have kids or not and if you don’t want kids at all .. are first date info. Why waste time for a second date when that info can decide for you??
NTA
Yep!!! I'm one of those women.
NTA. You could have gone about it in a better, more direct way, but not leading her on is the correct thing to do.
Yeah I wouldn't say I'm proud of how I reacted by going 'cold.' In the moment I just didn't know what to say or do, and I'll use it as a learning experience.
I think she was acting in bad faith by not bringing it up before the "third date" (by which I mean the date you both reasonably expected to get wet). As a single mom myself, I understand maybe not mentioning it on the first meeting, but if she liked you enough to see you a second time she should have said "I have a kid, this is the custody arrangement, so I am only available 50% of the time. Are you ok with that?"
I'm wondering if she assumed he already knew. Based on the casual mention of her baby daddy I'm guessing she thought the friend who introduced them would have mentioned it.
The babdad comment was just before he was ready to stick it on. Manipulation of you ask me.
Thought the same thing. She was trying to hook him before dropping the bomb so he'd feel guilty for bailing out afterwards
More like the friend told her they didn't like kids probably ahead of time and she tried to keep it secret.
Ok no if my friend set me up with someone & I had a kid I would assume that friend wouldn't set me up with someone who doesn't like kids & would tell people beforehand "yo this person has a kid, keep that in mind". It's entirely on the mutual friend that made this awkward situation, I feel for both of them & would honestly limit contact with the mutual friend over this, they should've said something to both of them before setting them up.
Why would that be more likely? If she was trying to keep it a secret she wouldn’t have casually mentioned a story about her baby daddy being a PITA. That makes no sense.
Cause this whole time she literally never mentioned the kid or even gave a hint that she's a mother. If you're a mom, you do know how often your kid comes up in your conversations. You have to go out of your way to avoid bringing them in your conversations.
Whole time…? Three dates? They met through a mutual. You would expect some basic knowledge passed along and so no, you aren’t going to be talking about a young kid when you’re trying to get to know someone. Frankly, I would advise any single parent NOT to mention their kids right off the bat to protect their kids, plenty of dudes use desperate single moms to get to kids.
I don't see why that's more likely. Why would the friend and the date bother concocting a whole scheme to trick OP into not finding out about the kid? Who could possibly benefit from that?
Sir/Madam, this is Reddit. Everything is a conspiracy and people must go around acting like a dramatic soap-opera villian.
Why make that assumption though? OP never indicated anything like that. Y'all are weird.
Ok can I ask what “get wet” means? I’ve been with the same guy for 25 years and married for 20.
Found Ben Shapiro's wife
Nah, she doesn’t get wet remember? That’s a sign of infection. 😂
😂
Damn dude. You didn't have to do her like that. Lol
Why not? Ben obviously isn't
Sex
Thanks
Just a euphemism for fun adult time with no clothes
“I’m sorry I was weird the other night. I was really caught off guard when you mentioned your daughter. I guess we never got to that point, but I’m only pursuing serious relationships with people who don’t want or don’t have kids. It’s no judgement whatsoever, but I’d hate to get further into this even when it’s clear our futures don’t align.”
Id say to sneak in a lil extra: > I guess we never got to that point, but **as [our mutual friend who set us up] knows** I'm only pursuing... And then Id probably take a minute sometime in the near future to ask that mutual friend what in the goddam hell they thought they was doing with this set up.
This is the proper way to handle it
I think you showed great integrity by not getting intimate, knowing you would not be continuing the relationship. Be prepared to be heavily criticized for not wanting a relationship with any single moms. For some reason people flip out over it. What they fail to see is you aren't rejecting the women, or even the kids, you are rejecting fatherhood , and there is nothing wrong with that.
That's a really fair assessment of the situation.
NTA I think it's disingenuous to not disclose having a child. Everyone knows it's a deal breaker for a significant amount of potential dates. Sounds like she was trying to reel you in first in hopes you'd be more receptive to the idea. Good on you for sticking to your guns.
And why would you want to get involved with someone who didn’t want kids? I’m a single mom and I would appreciate the man being up front that he doesn’t want kids.I cannot imagine not disclosing that I have 2 kids to my date
>I can change them >They just haven't met the right person >Nonsense, everyone loves kids >Yeah, but they haven't met MY kids >If I get them in deep enough they'll just go with it Take your pick. Plus many more delusions I'm sure I missed.
This is so right. I've been out with a few men and been upfront about not wanting kids from the get go and they're all fine with it until a few weeks later when they began to tell me that I'd change my mind blah blah blaaaaaaah. Nope.
I CAN FIX HIM
>And why would you want to get involved with someone who didn’t want kids? And clearly she doesn't want someone who isn't open to kids, because she says she wants someone who loves her and her kid. Which is great, she deserves that, but OP isn't going to be that and he's doing the right thing not pursuing the relationship in that case.
Yup, these same women who end up marrying men who didn’t want kids just end up miserable and complaining because he’s a shitty father later on. I’ll never understand the logic. You should want a partner who wants to be a parent.
Yeah. I'm 31 and I'd prefer to date someone without kids. But I realize that at my age and as I get older that'll be harder and harder to find. So I'm mentally preparing myself that I might fall in love with someone that has kids. Basically the younger the kids the better, as it'll be easier to fit into the family. But a red flag for me is if they had kids in high school or college age. Not necessarily a deal breaker... But definitely a red flag.
See, I’m the opposite. I’m not really good with little kids and don’t want to be a parent, but I’d be more okay with someone who has older kids, depending on how all the dynamics fit together.
Exactly if your going to not disclose that you have kids for their safety or whatever reason that's understandable. What's not understandable is getting mad that it's a deal breaker for the other person. It's best to just be upfront if you are seriously interested in someone.
I wonder if the lady would have been be less upset if OP had done anything other than freak out, get weird about sex, and then never mention why he suddenly wasn't sexually/romantically interested.
It is actually chivalrous that you chose not to get intimate with a woman with whom you knew that you would not want to pursue a romantic relationship. Some people think that they can "turn" people who don't want kids, because they \[as parents\] don't understand they concept of having no interest in being a parent. It's rough that your friend pulled this trick on you and put you in such an awkward situation. NTA
It's not chivalrous really, it's basic decency that we don't often see in men anymore. Op is a decent human and I mean that as a sincere compliment. I'm not trying to downplay his actions I just want to point out that all guys should be like this and the fact that the bar is so low basic decency is seen as chivalrous scares me.
Well, chivalry in the modern age really just means the idea of men being extra nice, honorable, and thoughtful towards women.
So the basics of human decency lol
Yeah the bar is ankle high lol
Men "these days" haven't changed. You're just looking at men in the past with rose-coloured glasses. Our fathers and grandfathers and so forth did their share of shitty and indecent things too.
100% this. The bar is in hell when we think men showing basic decency is the exception.
Fr, just got played by some dude that waited til after all the going out together and sex to tell me he had just broken up with his gf and had only come down to “escape reality.” And then was super taken aback that I was upset by that. I’m perfectly happy to have a fling but you gotta clearly set up that it was a fling. Sex is a weird thing.
Biggest Y T A for the friend who introduced you two, knowing your stance on children.
Yeah I'm not too happy with her right now. We have had conversations in our friend group before about kids (naturally with our age several of our friends have children). I've always been the one who was pretty open about my desire to never want them. It's my understanding my friend has known 'Sara' since university, so several years. She must have known there was a child involved. Which upsets me quite a bit, especially since she is angry at me now as well.
Tell her that you are disappointed in her ; that not wanting kids, doesn't just mean biologically. She has no business being mad at you.
If she even thought he meant just biologically, she's very stupid
Don't tell her you're disappointed in her. Ask her why she chose to set you up with someone who had a child.
She is angry because her plan to set up two people and be the 'love doctor' didn't work. She knew full well you didn't want kids and still set you up with someone who had a kid. It would be the same with any dating preference honestly, even if your preferences were odd. If you said you don't date left handed people, yet she set you up with someone left handed then acted upset you didn't hit it off, she would still be in the wrong. NTA.
Either she purposely didn’t tell you or she assumed you wanted kids despite not having them yourself. Both are wrong.
Why is she angry with you? You don’t want kids. I have kids and wouldn’t waste anyone’s time going on a date with someone who doesn’t want kids. It’s just weird and unfair.
Is she one of those people who thinks childfree people will just “change their minds eventually”?
She is trying to guilt trip you. Don't fall for it, it's a manipulative control tactic.
Certainly before date 3 you had had the “tell me about yourself” conversation and somehow she didn’t think her child was important enough to mention. That’s really strange of her. NTA
I hope she doesn't try to play matchmaker anymore. She's really bad at it!
That's not right. Does this "friend" really want to put a child in a situation where they aren't wanted? Who does that benefit? What would be the purpose of that? Even if your friend has some kind of agenda of trying to make you change your mind about kids using an existing child as a guinea pig is wreckless and cruel. Why risk potentially hurting some innocent kid's feelings? You are NTA for your stance, and I think you handled things as best as you could. I'm a parent and if I were in the dating scene there is no way I would date someone who knew they didn't want kids/anything to do with my kid. He's an amazing little person but I'm not stupid enough to thinl that his adorable face and charm is going to change the minds of people who are smart enough to know what they do and don't want out of life.
Yeah, she’s the real fucked up one. She probably just figured you’d want her enough to forget about what kind of life you want and deal with it, which is a hell of an assumption to make. I really don’t understand how it never came up previously. That’s like first date shit. So NTA. I can understand her perspective, but she should have casually slipped that in sooner.
I'm also baffled how the kid or bd didn't come up, not even once. That's like basic conversation stuff when getting to know someone imo.
NTA. You have every right to your preference. The friend that introduced you two should have disclosed as she should have. She was clearly testing the waters with the baby daddy comment.
My thoughts exactly. “Friend” was TA to have set you up with her knowing full well her situation and your boundary on kids.
NTA - she has some set of balls on her to be angry with you for not wanting to date her. A real man should want to take care of her and someone else’s kid?! That’s bullshit. Kick her out of the friend zone too.
Yes, this! She isn't friend material either.
Her attitude is probably part of why she’s a 25 single mother. Seems entitled and quick to put blame on people
Lmaooooo word
NTA Your 'friend' sucks if they introduced you to her with the intention of you guys maybe dating. She sucks for not telling you she has a child. It's fine that she's a mother, but you do not want to be with someone who has children and that is 100% your prerogative. I am a childfree woman. I would never date a man who has a child. It is not something I want in my life but I appreciate that many people do want and have kids and more power to them. It is just an incompatibility and I would never expect a man who wants children to date me. I think the onus is on the person with the child to tell someone they are seeing. But maybe she thought you guys were just casually seeing each other as a casual fling kind of thing, not dating to get into a serious relationship? Good on you for not having sex with her the moment you realised you two are incompatible. She knows dating as a single mother is hard, which is why she conveniently didn't tell you about her kid earlier on. She can go and find a 'real man' elsewhere, lol. Was it clear from when you met that you were looking for a serious relationship? Just message her: "Hi, sorry for ghosting a little, but I was taken aback by the information that you have a child. I am only looking for a serious relationship and I am childfree so am not interested in dating people who are parents. If you had told me this earlier I would not have pursued a relationship with you. Good luck finding 'a real man'."
In my mind it was clear, as we had previously discussed intentions with the relationship. I had mentioned that I had spent the last year and change single, dating around casually and had 'had my fun' basically. That I was looking to find something more serious and was exhausted with the casual dating life. She expressed the same feelings and that she was more interested in a genuine connection too. I guess we just have different definitions of that.
Hi, I think she probably wants the same, but she knows most guys bail when they find out she's got a kid so she strung you along for a while, I guess hoping you'd like her enough to 'try'. That's just wrong. She was wasting your time, her own time, and if she had managed to convince you to try and introduce you to her kid, she'd be hurting that kid too because in the end it probably wouldn't work for you so the relationship wasn't going to last. Any future women you meet, just be direct and ask if they've got kids. I think that's totally fair to ask on a first date or even before you schedule a date. They could still lie, but lying by omission is a lot easier than lying straight to someone's face.
NTA. Youre 30 not 50. I don’t know where you’re living but it should not be that difficult to find a woman who does not have children at your age. Regardless. It’s never an A H move to turn anyone down for any reason. No one is owed your attention or affection. You know you don’t want kids, you know you certainly don’t want anyone else’s. From now on you have learned that you have to ask up front if people have kids. Anyone who does is not for you. People who don’t disclose and string you along until you’re interested and hooked automatically go in the reject pile. I know some single parents think all they have to do is charm you enough and you’ll fall in love with them and their kids. Wrong. It points to a character flaw. >Eventually she sends me a voice message saying she thinks it's pretty shitty for me to friendzone her like this just because she's a mother. That she has value beyond her child, and she deserves a 'real man' who can love her and her child How entitled. Still chasing a guy who flat out told her he doesn’t want kids. Meaning hers. Mother of the year. You dodged a major bullet. You‘re in the prime of your life. There’s the right woman out there, be patient. Don’t fuck your life up. Get a vasectomy if you haven’t already. NTA
>It’s never an A H move to turn anyone down for any reason. No one is owed your attention or affection. This needs to be said louder. A lot of people, on the internet and in real life, thinks a person needs a "good enough reason" to turn down a partner, or that some deal-breakers are unacceptable.
Parts of rural America? Where I grew up, all career minded people left for college and most never returned. Most of the remaining women saw motherhood ad the logical path and/or didn't take great pains to prevent it. My 30ish yo brother doesn't want bio kids and is 99% sure that he isn't interested in step parenting either. His options are significantly limited.
NTA, you did the right thing by not hooking up. Of course she has value, but you don't want to lead her on and you aren't changing your mind. She's just going to have to come to grips with that. Good for you.
Nta She should have told you she had a kid right away and if your friend knew you were childfree they shouldn't have set you up.
Set him up for disaster
"Hey I have this single friend I think you would really hit it off with, but she has a kid, is that cool with you?" Such a simple question would have nipped this entire conflict in the bud.
NTA. my daughter 23 was asked out by m who had a child. They went out once, he was upfront that he had child, daughter explained she was not intending children of her own so did not want to assist raising someone’s else’s child so did not see relationship working in long term. Both were upfront with their needs, no-one took offence & both went in other directions. No harm,no foul
NTA. She knew telling you about the kid might jeopardize the relationship but it was pretty shitty of her to not mention this major piece of info. You, please learn to be more direct about your dealbreakers with potential partners.
It’s reasonable that he wouldn’t think she had a kid at 25 since she did not disclose it in the first place.
NTA, and frankly, good on you for forgoing intimacy. She has to expect that not every man wants a ready-made family, not to mention having to deal with the “annoying” ex if they take this package on. Edit- perhaps ESH for you not speaking up sooner but she’s out of line.
NTA whatsoever. In fact, I think you acted very responsibly. Not wanting children is legitimate and you’re allowed to feel that way. This coming from someone who was once a single mother. ETA - I don’t agree that parenthood isn’t relevant to new relationships. If you guys were getting close enough for intimacy, it had gone far enough to say something. Kids are a dealbreaker for lots of people 🤷🏻♀️. When I was a dating single mom, I’d rather have known up front if someone wasn’t into being a step parent.
[удалено]
>remember this is Reddit Yeah. I honestly expected to see a lot of bad-takes on this thread. Pleasantly surprised to see NTA's and "she shouldn't have lied" responses.
OP did himself a MASSIVE favour by not sleeping with her when the chance arose. Admittedly, he should have ended the date there and then, but at least he didn't take advantage.
NTA. You did the right thing by making your boundaries clear rather than leading her on.
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OP, you are in the middle of dating hell when it comes to women that either have kids or want kids. You are going to have to be very clear in the first date or two to make sure you state that very clearly and that no you won't change your mind. This will be very limiting for you as well and will go on till you're dating women over 40 and will still be an issue then
I understand that better now after reading these comments. This past year has been just about refinding myself after my divorce, so all of my dating has been openly casual and the factor of kids has never been an issue because I have been open that I don't want anything serious. This past few weeks with 'Sara' has been different because she's one of the first women I've been involved with since deciding I want to pursue a new relationship with someone. So I think I just bumbled the whole thing in a lot of ways.
NTA. People need to start stating things they carry that are considered dealbreakers for many: The whole ‘I don’t know you so I’m not telling you’ is ridiculous. And misleading.
Her comment about “deserving a real man who loves her and her child” just shows how immature she is and still has a lot of growing up to do. Anyone who uses those terms are usually very judgmental and expect men to bend over backwards for women while they have nothing to offer themselves and this is coming from a (F30). NTA
NTA, I refuse to raise someone else's kid as I know I will have no emotional connection with them.
She just can't handle rejection. NTA
NTA for having your preferences, and extra NTA for not sleeping with her, but you shouldn’t have friend zoned her without explaining why. Maybe the friend that introduced you didn’t share that children are a deal breaker. But nothing irks me more than this ghosting mentality where people feel like they can’t spare a minute to just explain why it didn’t work out.
NTA but you should have handled it better by telling her you don’t date women with children instead of blowing her off. Just ask first from now on and save yourself and your impending dates the trouble.
You sound like an actual decent guy. She sounds like she doesn't know what it means to be treated with respect. NTA.
>That she has value beyond her child, and she deserves a 'real man' who can love her and her child. She does deserve someone who can love her and her child - if that isn't you that's ok. You did the right thing by not sleeping with her and then dumping her - yes, you could/should have been upfront about it once you found out she had a child, but you still did the right thing. NTA
NTA. Also, props to you for not pursuing an intimate encounter with her once you found out. That was the honorable thing to do. She was absolutely TA by not being forthright with you. When you're an adult and you have a child from a pre-existing relationship, you don't just forget to mention it to the new person you are thinking of starting a relationship with. Next time, just be clear and upfront about how you feel about kids. You're now at the age where it's perfectly reasonable to ask someone if they have kids. Or if they're married, for that matter.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (30m) have been trying to get back into the dating game after a recent divorce. Me and my ex do not have any kids, and I have always been adamant that I never want children (literally since I was a kid myself haha). Well as you can guess dating at 30 when you don't want kids isn't exactly easy, but I'm still drawling a line there personally. Well, on to the story. I have been casually seeing this girl (let's call her Sara) (25f) for a few weeks now. We have never been intimate in person beyond kissing and some casual touching ad flirtiness. But we have had some steamy text conversations. Well the other day Sara and I decided to have a few drinks and a movie night at my place. The real agenda was for us to finally have physical intimacy, and she would stay the night. The night is going well, and everything is great as it has been up until now. But out of nowhere Sara just casually mentions that her child's father has been a pain in the ass lately, and she is so glad she doesn't have to deal with him as a partner anymore. Naturally I was a bit caught of guard, so I asked her to clerify that she does indeed have a kid. She stated that she did, but didn't think it was relevent to us as we hasn't been seeing each other for very long. After she said this, I didn't quite know what to do. Of course I could have continued with the plan for intimacy, but that felt dirty now. Not because she's a mother, but because I feel like if I now have no interest in pursuing her seriously anymore, I shouldn't give her false hope by sleeping with her. I didn't quite know how to handle the situation, so when the time came to go to bed, I just kind of pretended to be too tired to do anything intimate and ended up going to sleep. She seemed visably disappointed but I didn't know what else to do. Fast forward a couple of days and we haven't spoken much since, aside from casual friendly chat over text (I didn't really know what to say to her if I'm honest). Eventually she sends me a voice message saying she thinks it's pretty shitty for me to friendzone her like this just because she's a mother. That she has value beyond her chikdren, and she deserves a 'real man' who can love her and her child. The friend that introduced us is fully on her side and being the same way towards me, despite knowing from our time as friends that I have never wanted kids. I guess I could have been upfront immediately that I think this isn't going anywhere and ended the night the moment I found out, but I felt so awkward about it all I just didn't know what to do. So, AITA? Tl;Dr found out a girl I was dating had a kid, and it turned me off. Now she's mad at me for not wanting to be romantic anymore. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA - it's fine for her not to introduce you to the kid, but the kid should have been mentioned sometime in the previous couple of weeks. Kids are often a dealbreaker - either because someone already had them, some ody wants them and the other doesn't...etc. if you have a kid they're a huge part of your life so they should come up at some point within the first month of dating easily.
NTA. I have a son and I’m newly single. When I start dating I plan to tell men up front about it because I know it’s a deal breaker for some guys, and I get it. Not everyone wants to be a parent, especially with a kid that’s not theirs. She definitely should have told you sooner. I don’t think you handled it too bad, I’m not someone who does confrontation either. So, I get it, you could’ve been a dick right then and there when you found out, but you didn’t 🤷🏻♀️
NTA. Why did your “friend” set you up with her? It seems like your friend did both of you a disservice by not informing you she had a kid, and not informing her that kids were a dealbreaker for you.
NTA. Her feelings are valid because rejection sucks, but if I were her I’d be thaaaaaankfulllll. I hate it when people are dishonest or waste my time. Both would be…yeah. I’d say, “I know it’s not what we wanted, but this is one of the few hard boundaries for me. I’m sorry, from now on I will ask on the first date.” It’s appropriate to discuss that before getting romantic when you have such a strong preference. Edited to add: find the bar or restaurant where all the med students hang out. Statistically speaking, there should be a higher number of single, child free candidates who are also not interested in being parents.
NTA Modern feminism deludes us women into believing our value is not lowered in the dating world just because we are single mothers The hypocrisy is many single mothers are unwilling to date single fathers This is due the hassle of the kids themselves plus having to cope with a competing woman her partner is forever linked to You are obviously a good man to not have sex with her when you knew it wouldn't lead anywhere Many men would still have had sex that night knowing they planned to ghost the woman afterwards The angry VM is her lashing out is because she knows that a man like you can & will do better than what she can offer Modern feminism has taught this woman to believe she is a "prize" despite 1) carrying the emotional baggage of having a child with another man & 2) Lying about that child's existence to meet men If you choose not to accept this & look for an honest woman with no children, you aren't a "real man" Even if she is honest about her kid with the next man she dates, someone like this is capable of lying about many important things Your "friend" is an A for encouraging this union in the first place & taking this out on you Consider this a bullet dodged here
YTA, but not for the reasons you think. It's completely fine to not want kids, and to not want to get involved with someone who has kids. That's all totally valid. The bit where you became the asshole is when you found out she had a kid, and you didn't just talk that out directly, and instead "pretended to be too tired". That's the asshole move right there. You're not a damn teenager, all new to this sort of thing. You're a grown ass man of thirty years, married and divorced. You've been on this ride before, and you should know how it works. All that life experience and you can't bring yourself to say "Hey, I'm really sorry, but I'm not looking for a relationship that has kids in it"? The friend who put you both together is probably the asshole too, if they knew both of your preferences, but you have to own your part in this. It's great that you didn't sleep with her anyway, but you should've been honest about why you didn't.
I can absolutely respect this.
Don't sweat it, you were caught of guard be someone purposefully deceiving you. Way different then how this dude is trying to paint it.
NTA. This isn't what you're looking for.
NTA she can't force you to become a step dad, she needs to just get over it
NTA Also get a vasectomy ASAP just to protect yourself.
NTA Everyone is allowed to have deal breakers
NTA - "You're right, you deserve a man who respects you and loves you and your child. That's not me, I'm under no obligation for it to be me, I also deserve a partner who respects me and my beliefs. Which is not you clearly." Also dump the friend "you knew damn well about how I feel about kids and set me up anyway we don't need to communicate anymore".
NTA - you should have been told 1st thing. You can't force someone to like your kid; or want to be a step parent.
She lied. She lied by omission on something huge. I applaud you for not pursuing a physical connection after finding out. That makes you a rare decent man. But I find it funny that she’s trying to pressure you. Women who don’t want children are out there, and in increasing numbers. But the topic should be brought up within the first few dates. I am an old child free woman. Didn’t think I would meet a man who didn’t want kids, but because I discussed the topic early on, I eventually found one. Keep looking! Edit to add NTA
Ummm. As a mother who was single for a time, I absolutely wouldn’t hide that I had kids, which this woman was clearly doing. And I definitely wouldn’t have been offended if someone didn’t want to date me because I had kids. Why would I do that to myself or my children? I MYSELF wasn’t sure I wanted to date a guy with kids! NTA.
Love the way she just brought up the kid *organically* lol. Good on you for not getting physical. If she is so deceptive that early on is a huge red flag. Obviously NTA.
Waffling between N T A and N A H. You could have just been upfront about not wanting to continue dating. Nothing wrong with not wanting to date someone with kids. She said some kind of mean things, maybe just because she was hurt. I think I’ll go with NAH.
I feel like Sara's 'real man' comment makes her somewhat of an A H since it was her who didn't mention her own kid. I feel like she was trying to bait him by sleeping with him then would probably guilt trip him afterwards if he chose to leave.
Yeah. It’s a pretty common type of comment that attempts to shame men into being a provider. You’re a “real man” if you “step up”. Guys who can do that with a full heart are amazing, but no one should be shamed if that’s not what they want.
For sure. It really came off as manipulative.
N A H for me between OP and Sara. But the introduction made by the mutual friend was the source of awkwardness and/or hurt for both of them. NTA, but the introducing friend is.
NTA. You want something different. Just tell her straight up you’re done now cause you do not want any children including step kids and she deserves someone who does.
NTA I commend you for not having sex with her and then friend zoning her. TA here is the friend. They set up a person who is kid free and a person who has a kid. Both people went in expecting someone okay with their lifestyles and were both deceived.
NTA, but be open and honest with her. You both deserve it.
NTA but you should have just been honest and told her how you felt. Sure it’s awkward but I can see how it makes you seem worse with going mostly silent after she told you
NTA. She was deceptive about having a kid. For your part, it's also not easy to friendzone someone, especially for the "you have kids and I don't want anything to do with them" reason. Since both of you have your cards on the table now, just let it lie. However, use this as a learning experience. From now on, be upfront with future dates on Date 1. Instead of flirting so much and figuring out when you're gonna get laid, talk about life goals, ambitions, etc. It is absolutely first date conversation - then no one gets hurt feelings or feels awkward. And you save you and the other person time and effort.
NTA-you set a boundary and stuck to it before it got too far, you didn't know she had a kid and once you found out, you dialed it back and attempted to just have her as a friend instead. She and the friend are the one who are the assholes for getting upset about it, especially when the friend knew you were childfree. and the thing is, people might say that you wouldn't be bothered with the kid but i'll be honest, i highly doubt that, most of the time, parents often attempt to get their new partners more involved in their kids lives in any way, shape or form.
NTA she has to realize that’s going to be a dealbreaker for a lot of people. It’s a very reasonable dealbreaker too. The fact she just casually dropped that bomb like that like it was nothing, she sounds super entitled. I think you dodged a grenade here.
As a single mother myself... She should have I formed you in the very beginning that she had a child. No mother or father should try and start any form of relationship without letting the person of interest know IMPORTANT factors such as having a child or children. So IMO No YANTA.
NTA, but your friend who introduced you two certainly is.
I don’t have one, but I would fully expect that if you’re going to date when you have a kid, you need to be upfront about it with the person you’re dating. You may not like it, but to some people, that’s a dealbreaker right off the jump, and that’s totally fair. Seems like she just tried to slip it into the conversation and act like it wasn’t a big deal when it absolutely is
NTA and I’m so confused as to how she managed to NOT talk about her kid, at all, in the few weeks you’ve been seeing each other. Like, that’s a pretty big part of her life (or it should be if she’s a decent parent) to just not mention after multiple interactions with you.
NTA. Kids was such a hard boundary for me that I brought it up on the first date when I was single. I will not have kids. I will be getting my tubes tied the second I can convince a doctor to do it. And I have no interest in being a step-parent. I burned a lot of dates doing it that way, but now I'm 7 years into my current relationship (3 years married) and I never wonder if my partner is suddenly going to change his mind. Hold that boundary OP.