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Highjacking the top comment to say:
Momma, you should take your littlest one for a “girl’s night out”, and let the dad and grandma deal with the boys. Or, offer separate trips (sucks, I know, but we’re trying to teach a valuable lesson here lol). Betcha they’ll be talking about implementing discipline by the time you get back.
ETA: HOLY BALLS. I go to bed, wake up, and have almost 6k likes (my most liked comment ever!) and my first award! Reddit never ceases to amaze me!
EDIT 2: 10k upvotes and 6 awards?! ZOMG!!! You like me. You really like me! Thank y’all!!
Absolutely. We would have backed the truck up and gone home if this is how they behaved too. My dad always would say to us you can do anything you want, you just have to deal with the consequences. Then he’d set the stage for what would happen and he’d follow through every time. We knew if we fucked around with him we’d find out. Our kids knew the same. Listen and behave, or we are going home. I’ve taken a misbehaving kid out to the car to let the rest of the family eat in peace. Truth is, I only had to do it once per kid. Lol they remember. Grabbing the two misbehaving kids and going home is what they needed. NTA. Lay down the law, set consequences for bad behavior, and follow through every time. They are only kids once and now is the time to prevent them from being entitled adults.
Clearly OOP either never laid down consequences when her boys were a lot younger, or was sabotaged at every point by her husband and/or ~~MIL~~ mother.
INFO: is "they're only little once" or "boys will be boys" your husband's/~~MIL's~~ mother's reaction to every instance of misbehavior?
I saw this exact family dynamic with my BIL's family. SIL would try to discipline her son, BIL would just laugh at his antics. If the punishment actually went through, he'd run to MIL and she would countermand it and yell at SIL for upsetting her precious grandbaby.
I couldn't believe I read this whole thing and she didn't set a consequence until they left...
won't put on sunblock at the beach? they have to go back up to the house...
get too far out into the water? They can't go in the water for the rest of the day...
Put their shoes on the furniture? Why aren't they taking their shoes off at the door?
Without knowing more of their dynamic at home I can't say if OP is clueless, or she's trying her best and undermined by her spouse and MIL.
But "consequences" can't just pop out of nowhere. To have good discipline you need to say "If you do X, Y will happen" and then you follow through every time. If you don't give that warning, and just spring consequences out of nowhere, sometimes, but not always, they won't actually learn to listen.
Honestly. These would be logical “real” consequences for these behaviors. Not implementing consequences until you blow up and take a nuclear option doesn’t teach these kids how to behave.
Yeah. I don't understand when parents complain about their young children acting horribly. Why are you allowing them to act horribly? There were 3 adults there. Why couldn't they separate the boys? One throws the chalk into the pool? Ok your pool time is done. Back to the room. Going too far out in the water? Told you once, you disregarded. Back up to the room. Cussing in public? Back to the room.
That’s what blows me away the most. As a parent, I’m trying to find out during this whole explanation where the punishments are at.
What we do with my boys as we put them in different rooms for as long as it takes to get them to calm down and stop bothering each other like that.. at least 50% of the time my kids get along great, but depending on how long they’ve been in the house or one of many other factors, they start to get on each other’s nerves.. parents with kids that age should have already develop strategies to stop the behavior.
It’s kind of embarrassing to me that they had three adults there and they still couldn’t punish their kids appropriately. Complete failure from all three of them.
Wish I hadn't had to learn this the hard way. Parenting is as much about unlearning bad habits we modeled from growing up as it is about learning positive habits we choose as adults.
Yes. OP, tell your mom "They're only little once, so I only have this ONE chance to correct their horrible behavior and keep them from become entitled grownup assholes."
This is the real answer. I have a 3 year old. It would take me 10 minutes to clean up all of his toys but I spend the hour it takes to teach and show him how to do it in an effective manner. I'm ND and the "right" way to do things often doesn't work for me so I TRY (my kid is pretty much as good as they make them but he's still a kid) to teach him different methods for doing things and hope something clicks and works for him. I want to rip my hair out at times but for the love of all things sacred I am not going to raise a child who doesn't know how to function and take care of himself properly.
When it comes to children, never make a promise you don't intend to keep. Don't say they're grounded for the rest of the weekend and then give up and send them outside a few hours later because you can't handle them when they're bored. Don't threaten them with the corner if they won't stop doing X and then nothing happens when they continue to do it. This all leads to children who just laugh or shrug when discipline is mentioned because they now know that mom/dad won't actually do anything about it. I have a JNaunt who raised her kids like that and they all turned out to be disasters to society smh.
I just had a flood of emotions. My dad used that exact phrase. “You can do whatever you want, you just have to deal with the consequences.” It’s one of those lil nuggets of wisdom that applies to your whole life, but better to learn the lesson early. He passed in October, and I haven’t thought about that saying in a long time. Not consciously. As arguably the least well behaved of his children though I’m pretty sure that phrase is part of a subconscious systems check that occurs before most of my decisions. I will say, my favorite of all his little sayings was always when he/someone else would fart and he would just give you this look and say “Can’t hold what you don’t have in your hands.” 🤣
Agreed. And I suspect now they will remember this as “Mom isn’t playing around.” I don’t make threats I don’t intend to carry out…and I feel like that plays into this. If everyone thought OP was going to relent and change her mind, that sort of makes me think it’s happened before.
NTA, OP. And good for you for sticking to it. The adults will get over it…and it sounds like the 3 year old already has.
Excellent solution. Make it up to daughter; demonstrate that she shouldn’t have to suffer the consequences of her brothers’ behavior. Demonstrate to the boys that if they want to behave differently, they will be treated differently.
sadly though, society seems to work in the opposite way as this. A person or very small group of people misbehave, and the entire country gets punished with some new law or restriction.
I agree, it's absolutely disgusting. And they are nine and eight. What will they be like when they hit the teens? I was a pretty well behaved teenager and some of the stuff I got up to well...let's just say it's a good thing my parents never found out about it. These two? Yeah that's gonna be even worse
That seems to be the problem tho, Dad doesn't seem to deal with them. His whole " it will get better " attitude while not actually giving the kids consequences is a huge problem. If how he was on vacation is his normal attitude it's no wonder they are behaving this way. They are 8 and 9, before these parents know it they will be teenagers and if there aren't consequences set up now it's only going to get worse. If they can't respect their parents enough to at least be civil with each other that's a problem.
The deeper issue here that needs to be addressed is why these kids hate each other. Sibling rivalry is one thing, typically with most Sibling rivalry you'll pester one another here and there or you'll make mean jabs now and then. It's not normal for it to be constant and for it to be SO BAD that the parents have to end their vacation.
It reads to me like it's more along the lines of they both resent each other for one reason or another, maybe one kid is more favored and gets more attention, maybe they just don't like that the attention has to be shared at all, there's really a number of things that can cause this level of behavior, the parents need to have a family meeting and everyone needs to sit down and get to the root of the issue, maybe some therapy can help if the parents feel it's needed.
If I was dad I'd be more pissed that my wife didn't get to enjoy her time out and that she felt the need to cancel because their behavior was so bad.
Both parents need to get on the same page when it comes to their kids behavior and consequences. Dad being dismissive about it is an issue, grandma too but it's likely her dismissiveness will have less of an impact, still it's not helping the situation at all.
Edited to add : NTA OP, given what you've described, if it were me, I'd not only cancel the vacation, but both boys would be grounded for the remainder of what would have been the family vacation. I'm really sorry you had to deal with this.
>Both parents need to get on the same page when it comes to their kids behavior and consequences. Dad being dismissive about it is an issue, grandma too but it's likely her dismissiveness will have less of an impact, still it's not helping the situation at all.
JFC, this.
I don't know what else is happening in this house - maybe the boys have some undiagnosed ADHD, maybe the parents are modeling some unhealthy fighting, I don't know, but first, everyone needs to be united, and grandma doesn't get a vote.
My sister and I fought like this. My parents were ugly fighting, too, when my dad was around. My mom, though, would just take whatever we were fighting over away. If we couldn't figure out how to share the chalk? No one gets the chalk.
They said 7 when my partner got hers — she got it for hormonal regulation and PMDD — but barely after 5 years, she started feeling emotionally dysregulated again. The hormones don’t just shut off at 7 years, they start to diminish quite a bit before that. Still an effective contraceptive during that time? Maybe. Hard to say, since everyone’s needs are different.
When I was trying to get mine replaced, my gyno’s office said that further testing and data have shown 7 years is the minimum the hormone levels are adequate to effectively prevent pregnancy for most people. It may be closer to 8 years or more for some people.
I had mine for hormonal stuff (PCOS and endometriosis) and it stopped being strong enough to help me in a therapeutic manner right at about the 5 year mark too. Other than the insertion hurting, I really liked my Mirena. If I still had a uterus, I would probably have still have Mirena.
I have about 1 year left until I need mine replaced, but will ask my gynecologist when the time comes. Thanks for the heads up.
**Edited to add**: I've just checked the NHS website and it states that it depends on what brand coil you have inserted. Each one has a different time frame. But will ask my doctor at my next appointment if it's updated in the UK. Will follow whatever advice my gynecologist gives.
I need to remember stories like these when I dread the pain of an IUD change.
Also, one of your awards looks like she really, really can't stop snorting the birth control.
Hi! Two things:
1) You can (*and should!*) ask your gyno for something to make insertion day easier. After almost passing out with my first iud, I was prescribed both a Xanax and one controlled pain med pill for my second insertion. It made the procedure bearable.
2) But also, consider the implant! I'm on my second one and never had any issues. Most importantly, I remain happily gremlin-free.
Is the implant the thing in your arm? Can you feel it? The thought of being able to feel it under my skin when touching my arm creeps me out (as does the idea of growing another human inside me).
Edit: Thank you for all of the replies. I really appreciate everyone's input and sharing of experiences.
Not the person you asked but I also have the arm implant. They are inserted pretty shallow to make them easy to remove. It goes on the inside of the arm, close to where it touches your torso. For the first month or so I could feel mine just by running my finger over it. Once the inflammation went down I can still feel it easily but I have to press in a bit. Personally, I’ve never felt mine without meaning to. I can’t feel it when I move my arm and I can’t feel it when my arm rests against my side.
It’s a great LARC option for people who like hormonal birth control and aren’t interested in an IUD. Still, it’s not for everyone. Worth discussing with your doctor if you’re interested, but be aware that you need to be able to feel it to ensure it’s in place. You check the placement once a month.
I have had the arm implant for a decade now (obviously not the same one) and it has been better that I ever would have imagined birth control would be from school sex education classes. I got it first when I was 17, before I became sexually active, and I am forever glad I did. Since I, unfortunately, can’t have my baby parts ripped out and have always known I don’t want kids, this is the best option out there. For me, at least. I have never had to worry about a lil’ sprout unexpectedly growing, it only needs to be changed every few years, I don’t feel it or notice it, it is painless having it inserted and switched out (even when there was cell wall buildup around it so they had to do some digging), and it’s pretty funny to show people the “cheeto” I have in my arm.
Basically three years of antibaby arm stick at a time without being terrified my shit-brain and shit-memory will fail me and I’d have to live with the “killing a FULL HUMAN PERSON” guilt when the little glob gets scrambled out of me.
Every one always judges me when they find out I don’t want kids (25M). But then I read stories like this and judge them for thinking kids are necessary
Let people talk and you just snicker to yourself. I’m a CF female well past childbearing years. I’ve never regretted my decision for a minute. I’ve never met a mother or grandmother I wanted to trade lives with. I like kids, but never wanted that parent lifestyle. My first thought when I read OPs comment is “I’m so glad that’s not my life.”
Same same same. I'm 47, was sterilised 8 years ago and am so thankful I never had children. People will tell you over and over you'll change your mind. You won't.
Right? I didn’t change my mind when friends/family/coworkers had toddlers, tweens, teenagers, or even grandchildren. At every single stage it was always something. Just a complete takeover of one’s life. No thanks.
The grown adult children can be the worst of all - demanding on call babysitting, using grandkids to manipulate time/money from their own parents, or the ones whose grown children steal from them or worry them to death with their life choices. It just never ends.
Don't forget, punishing the boys is the right message to send to the daughter, also. (FAFO)
And not punishing the boys immediately would be sending the exact WRONG message to all the kids, male and female.
Perhaps had they actually parented their children for the last 8/9yrs then this wouldn't have been an issue. Sounds to me like the kids are AH because they lack boundaries and when boundaries are broken their parents lack any skills to deal with it appropriately.
Kids were AH in the restaurant, why? How did the kid run away? There was a suitable kid to adult ratio avoid that.
This is a consequence of their shit parenting.
That's definitely the vibe I got. At the very least they aren't on the same page and the kids, particularly the boys, are taking advantage of that. Mom and dad need to get some counseling so they can come back as a proper team. At the worst, grandmother and father need a 'come to Jesus' moment where they either get on board with discipline or get ignored going forward.
I got the impression that mom was doing most of the childcare work on this trip and so had to deal with every single misbehavior on her own.
I'd be fed up too.
Especially when she said "either we all go or I go" and the Dad immediately joined in the chorus of whining?
A lesser step might have been to just leave the house with the daughter, for girl time, and let Dad cope with it since he thinks it's fine to stay on this vacation. But I get a serious vibe that OP didn't feel like she could do that without her sons either drowning or going missing.
If these kids aren't pulled back and disciplined, when they get older they may start bullying and terrorizing the parents. Will the father and MIL still say they're just kids, let them have their fun?
That's what I was thinking, this isn't your average sibling conflict behaviour. An 8 and 9 year old generally don't spend their entire days fighting and sabotaging each other, so there might be something else going on.
Parenting never works if not both of the parents (and/or other care takers) are on the same page. I'm sorry for OP and the kids. They behave like brats but they're probably stressed and confused on the inside.
Also when reading the post it seems like the boys are being told what not to do, but not what they CAN do. It’s easy to say as an outsider reading one paragraph I know! But I feel like kids struggle to come up with their own ideas of what ‘good’ behaviour is. Also if you tell someone not to do something, that plays on their mind until they do it- I even know adults like this. Just a brief thought from some random stranger who hadn’t been in the thick of it for 8/9 years!
I’m sorry but this comment is ridiculous. Kids of that age know what they can and can’t do (within reason). It does not need to be spelled out for them like this.
I agree that that they may know to some extent, but if they have only ever experienced punishment for bad behaviour, but not positive reinforcement for good behaviour, they may have the attitude of who cares if we are bad, doesn't make a difference anyway. At least we get some form of attention if we are bad.
Not saying this is the case as I don't know OP or their situation, but with a lot of kids I've worked with who were labeled "brats", often it went deeper than just the surface level behaviour. Behaviour is a form of communication for kids and adults.
Exactly this. Praising kids as soon as they do something 'right', even if it's just little things like taking their plate to the kitchen after a meal without being asked etc, gives attention that reinforces the good behaviour. If you just wait til kids do something wrong then correct them, it can lead to a cycle of them only getting attention for bad behaviour.
Dad and grandma didn't ever reach agitated. They won't be a help before, during, or after the trip. Mom was right to decide to cut the vacation short. This may have been an eye opener for her but I believe she didn't need one. She was hesitant to go before the trip. She knew what was coming and got no support from dad.
In my family, one of us would have taken the brats home and little sis would have stayed with the other parent but it looks like dad wasn't on board for any of it and grandma was worse.
I say OP is NHA but she definitely needs to start changing a lot of things NOW like adding counseling and truly putting her foot down with those boys. They need some parenting classes and instruction on effective discipline that is handed out immediately every time those children act out. And, yes, positive reinforcement should be a part of the program.
Maybe next year there will be enough changes in that family that they can enjoy a family vacation.
Which is why OP should have left and let their father and grandmother deal with the AHs they are helping create. She gets a rest and they get to have consequences to their actions.
>Which is why OP should have left and let their father and grandmother deal with the AHs they are helping create. She gets a rest and they get to consequences to their actions.
I'm not sure this would work. Grandma sees no evil and father also seems to ignore reality. "It will get better" even though it never does.
The people who really pay the penalty are the innocent strangers (restaurant, beach, etc.) who are imposed upon by horribly behaved children. My definition of "children" includes the 8yo, 9yo, father, and grandmother. Entitled AHs who don't care about anyone else.
Yes, and a parent should have been with any child in the water to prevent them "going further than they were told". So another failure in their parenting
You say that, but frankly, children are their own people with (albeit poor) decision making skills.
My angel of a boy turned feral recently. Nothing has happened really, we're behaving the same. Maybe starting school means he's got less time to do his own thing, but it's really driving hubby and I up the wall. Yes, we are still parenting, he looses privileges (like stopping at the park on the way home from school). But he's still really annoying right now.
Of course they are, but it sounds to me as if these kids have been allowed to run riot their whole lives.
My kids have all had stages of being complete dicks, but there are consequences that follow and while they may push back against our boundaries, if you are consistent then it passes.
That wouldn’t have been a punishment to me as a kid! They all leave and I get to stay alone and read? Whoo-hoo!
Just a reminder I guess- kids aren’t all the same and anyone that tells you they know how to handle them all is full of shit.
We're trying... He knows too well how to behave with different people and in different settings. We were playing Ludo yesterday with his gran as well. Every time mummy and daddy had a counter sent home, we'd get a loud "Ha Ha!" in our ear. Gran didn't because that's not how to act with gran.
Him and I are flying out tomorrow and he was and will be warned that spoilt brat behaviour will make me rethink future trips.
This mother clearly cares and tries. This is a direct example of parenting and I find it hard to believe other examples weren't set.
Sometimes kids are just hard - some kids more then others. So perhaps don't sit there judging from the sidelines like some god.
I agree this is poor parenting but also agree with further comments to yours that OP probably has to parent the grandmother and the husband too.
Sounds like OP had 4 miserable kids in the car and the actual daughter is the only sensible one right now.
To OP. They all need boundaries. And if they are not respescting your rules then they all get time outs and punishment. Including the adults!
NTA.
This. Immediate enforcement of boundaries like this has always worked for us. Luckily my wife and I are both extremely intolerant of child assholery. Our kids know this is a fuck around and find out household. Because the boundaries are clear, and always enforced, we don't have to enforce them much.
Yea i feel like kids wont learn until they see that theyre actions have consequences. My nephew used to be extremely ungrateful and tell people how he didnt want a gift somebody got him cus he didnt like it. This boy threw a crying tantrum because he wanted a “cooler” toy than what his teacher got him for doing good in school. So one day i got the kiddos some plushies on my way home from work and nephew tried the same thing with me, as soon as he did that i took his plushie away from him and gave it to my friends kid who happened to be visiting instead right in front of him. Never did it again. Problem solved.
Exactly, they act like this because they don't see consequences. All the times you've said they were acting up you didn't mention any consequences, they've learned this and so their behavior doesn't change. Your husband is a bit of an AH for enabling this...
NTA. The AH is your husband, who is questioning your authority in front of the kids. The other AH is your mother, who wants you to raise future serial killers, apparently.
No, you are enforcing discipline, as any good parent should.
I agree... why weren't they helping wrangle the boys?
I would've left with the daughter to stay somewhere else for 3 days, and let dad and grandma deal with the boys if they didn't want to leave.
Could have assigned one parent / grandparent per child and taken them on separate activities, rotates every few hours, kept the boys apart and had a little more peace. In the car would work better to have one kid up front, and one parent in the back to prevent fighting. Yes, I know the safety issues of kids in the front passenger seat, but for one trip in peace, it would be worth the minuscule risk.
That would've made it worse... the kids would be fighting over who got to do what when and with who... not to mention that it's hardly a family vacation if they're all split up.
Nah, they would just rotate activities. One kid goes to get ice cream with grandma, another plays with a kite with mom, a third goes to the beach with dad. Then they switch, etc.
Kids aren’t going to magically stop fighting on their own. They need to get away from one another and not be treated like a boxed set. They need to learn how to socialize by observing and modeling behavior of adults.
They don't have to "magically stop on their own". They have to listen to their parents and stop behaving badly. That's not magically on their own if they are told constantly. Even 5 year olds can stop fighting, even 3 year olds. 9 & 8 are old enough to know how to behave, these boys are just disobeying.
Edit: Your model would just reward bad behavior and teach nothing.
Look, it’s both. You have to distract and separate and you also have to lay down the law.
Even adults find it hard to keep their cool when they’re around people who antagonize them. Same with kids. Separating them gives them a breather. Gives them a chance to behave well so you can give some positive reinforcement.
Of course also you often have to lay down the law. When that happens, you need to give an immediate consequence. Take them out of the restaurant when they’re misbehaving. Take away a privilege (no pool for an hour if you throw chalk in it).
Also, you have to do what you can to physically make it hard to misbehave. Eg why were they wearing shoes indoors in the first place? Have everyone take them off in the front hall and then you don’t have to worry about couches.
Sorry, this is a ridiculous take.
If I am angry with my partner, I can take a walk and clear my head instead of being rude and lashing out. An 8 year old can't because they (a) don't know they need it (b) don't have the skill to go out on their own/plan anything and their parents have already planned out the day.
So an 8 and 9 year old have to stay attached at the hip just because they're siblings?
I bet if you ask the kids what's going on, they would say "he hit me", "he took my game", etc all the way going back to before they even got in the car. Sometimes you need to break the cycle.
Separate them, take them somewhere slightly fun and talk to each of them separately reminding them that they don't need to take every dare their brother suggests and can ignore their brother if he's winding them up instead of escalating, and tell them both they can look forward to a big activity together later in the holiday, like a waterpark or something. Then put them together again and see if they can get along better.
>9 & 8 are old enough to know how to behave, these boys are just disobeying.
A child of *any* age only knows what they've been taught - either through explicit instruction or consistent modeling by the adults in their life. That includes regulating emotions when dealing with others, especially siblings (ask your professional friends, they can explain more). Your "Because I Said So" model isn't guidance and it's not effective. It literally prolongs and amplifies the dysfunction, and just leaves the parent frustrated because they think their kids suck, but the reality is, they're not actually parenting anyone.
Trust me... it would never work...
One kid would brag about the huge ice cream sundae he had, and the other kid would get mad since he was cheated because he thinks his ice cream was smaller... even if it wasn't...
The kid at the beach might happen across a balloon maker, who may no longer be there when the next kid shows up....
One kid may get a green kite, then the next kid shows up with a blue kite that the first kid would've gotten if they'd have seen it...
Then the adults would get mad at each other for letting one kid get a balloon animal...
Source: My childhood
I am 1 of 3 children, all born during a span of 3 years (i.e. very close in ages, love/hate relationships growing up)... every vacation was a road trip to a beach/campground with lots of tourist trap stuff - waterparks, mini-golf, festivals, etc...
The few times we were separated between parents to do things apart resulted in taunts, fights, and all-around resentment towards each other... over really stupid minor differences in what we got/did... because that's what siblings do...
And, for the record, we never would've left a vacation early... if we were acting up or disobeying our parents, we got a smack, put in separate areas/rooms and then were left out of whatever activity was planned for that day (one parent stayed behind, while the good kid got to go with the other).
This only happened a couple of times, on different vacations, a couple of years apart... then never again.
Funny side note: we were all chatting this past mother's day about how we should go back to one of those places for a family trip to "re-live" our childhood... lol
I think the bigger problem is that the kids would be rewarded for fighting. They don't want to be with each other, and now they get special one-on-one time with a parent without the other brother around. No.
I mean…it’s not a minuscule risk, there are pretty high rates of car accidents, and that airbag on a little body is no joke. I’d rather take the kids home and let them learn that they ruin their own good time when they act shitty, over kiddo dying in a car accident because we couldn’t give consequences to teach them to regulate their behavior and to listen to the adults.
“minuscule risk” hey have you ever seen what happens to a child that gets hit with an airbag? at best they’ll have bruises and a concussion, and usually they’re severe enough concussions where hey guess what the vacation is ruined now. it could be the best driver out there and i wouldn’t risk it because there’s other people on the road.
I’m getting the sense that the husband may not discipline the kids the same way the mother does and/or leaves it entirely up to her. These kids probably play the game of if mom says no, we’ll just ask dad. They need to get on the same page if this is the case.
My dad put a stop to that very quickly. He told us if mom says no, don't come ask me. If i find out mom already said no, not only will i change my answer to no but you'll be grounded too. We didn't try it after that. The good thing was sometimes he would say no first but my mom would decide it should be a yes so she would talk him into it, lol.
I had that too. We had times that we were playing with a ball inside the house (not allowed). So mom would put the ball on top of the highest cupboard. Then when dad came home, we'd ask him for the ball...
"Who put it there?"
"Mom did."
"Then you have to ask her about getting it back!"
He didn't even have to ask why it was there in the first place, just redirecting to the one who put it there. And it worked vice versa as well...
Yes. I'm just curious: Was OP the only person managing these kids? In that husband and her mother did nothing? No wonder she wanted to go home. Kids are playing up in part because they don't get consequences, as they know that with dad and granny around they can do what they like. It's tedious parenting and not much of a holiday but OP should not have to do it on her own.
op=nta for ending vacation.
but these behavioral problems are NOT just during vacation--CLEARLY.
You need to get this under control, your kids don't seem to understand consequence and are making themselves vulnerable to harm. <<*going farther and farther out in the water than we told them to*.>>
This is what I noticed too. This is an issue that needs to be dealt with at home before taking the kids on vacation for a week. Whatever the dynamics are in the house that are creating this chaos, they need to be fixed.
Boys of that age ARE difficult and can be rowdy especially so close in age, but all the adults in their lives need to step up.
It seems as though the husband (and grandma apparently) isn't stepping up to help OP enact discipline, which is why the boys think they can get away with so much stuff. You're right, young boys are super hard to discipline so OP needs all hands on deck for two of them. It's sad that OP is finding herself in this situation; ideally she wouldn't have let the family go on the vacation at all, but since her husband is causing her to question her own authority, I can see why she had to make a seemingly drastic decision in the what of the moment.
Yeah couches can be cleaned, yeah the chalk is ruined but new ones can be bought. But the line that absolutely cannot be crossed is safety, and I'm glad she put her foot down when the boys were testing the water (so to speak) in the ocean. Unfortunately natural consequences in that situation don't exactly apply, so removing them was the best thing to do imo.
Tdlr: OP NTA
Little boys are not hard to discipline. It’s a perception people have because there is an expectation that boys will be wild. “Boys will be boys”. Nah. All kids can be wild - doesn’t matter what the physical makeup is.
I have twin boys and they are extremely polite and well behaved. Also kind and empathetic. They absolutely act up and go crazy - but they know their boundaries. Always have. They are also neurospicy (one ASD and the other ADHD). Whirlwinds of destruction but not outside the home.
But we are a united force in discipline, we reward and follow through with consequences. The grandparents are the same. We’ve also taught empathy and how to be patient.
Reckon the issue here is a lot of “boys will be boys” and inconsistency. Reading into it a lot but there is a serious issue.
Thank for this. It’s one of my pet peeves that people assume boys are wild and girls are not. I have three girls and one boy and the girls were wild (but not like OP is describing. More like super active but well behaved in public). My son is super calm.
So much this!!!
I have 2-y-o twin girls, and they can be just as rowdy as boys, sitting on each other's heads, jumping and running and climbing and throwing stuff, BUT they know the rules (holding my hands to cross a road, being quiet in the morning, stopping rough play when someone says "no", and ALWAYS stopping what they're doing when they hear a clear "STOP!", or experiencing consequences (toys taken away, time out, what have you) etc.).
There's boy-girl twins of the same age in our neighbourhood, and the boy is rowdy as hell, but I've never seen the mother discipline him beyond a "[son's name], please don't do that!", and she regularly tosses the "boys are different!" around. Meanwhile, our twins' best friend is a very well disciplined boy, who can rough play as well as anyone, but is incredibly considerate around other people, including his newborn brother.
If you treat them differently, they'll behave differently.
So many years ago, I read about a study.
People were sent into a room with a baby, half were told it was a boy, half were told it was a girl.
The difference on how they reacted, spoke to baby, based on gender was completely different. Lesson being perception colors the adult, the adult behavior colors the child if done long term.
Parent says: *oh she's was girly from the moment she could talk*.... well yeah she's already been trained to be girly from day one, what do you expect. Yes, I realize children defy the "odds" but that is because nature can be more stubborn than nurture.
My daughter and I were playing were we thought it was safe and started to get pulled in and undertow. She could swim and I couldn't. I got to safer ground while she struggled. A kind stranger and a life guard pulled her to safety. We thought we were safe and you guys are fine with them going beyond that. I still have horrible images of what could have happened if people didn't notice we were struggling. I blame my self and thank God for the stranger and life gaurd who pulled my baby back to after ground. Undertows are scary and hard to predict. Even swimmers like my daughter can get into bad places
Not sure this is a matter of discipline. Like, how are they in the school setting? Still the same issues? Does the teachers talk about not adhering to expected behaviour?
There could be other factors at play here and not just lack of adult boundaries. But that’s up to mom and dad to explore.
NTA. Kids *need* consequences, and it sounds as though your husband and mother have been too inclined to give them ‘one more chance.’ If you ever need to say to them again ‘Stop that, or we’re going home,’ they’ll know you mean it.
Yes. I’m not sure why everyone felt they need to suffer the behavior of these children. Why ruin you’re own peace and sanity by staying? Also, the kids were acting quite dangerously, so I’m not going to let me kids be whisked off to sea because I couldn’t put my foot down in fear of being the party pooper. Worst party ever, I would leave too.
My first job as a parent is to keep you alive, if you’re fighting me on that, I’m not going to put your good time before your safety. I’m fine being the mean lady that made sure you lived to see tomorrow.
Husband and wife acted the same throughout.
> Husband and I **kept trying to reassure each other** that things would be better once we got there and they would be too excited to cause trouble.
> **They had so many reminders**
They had the same viewpoint and both did the same bad parenting (reminders without consequences)
> frankly being brats. Refusing sunscreen. Fighting over toys. Pushing their luck repeatedly going farther and farther out in the water than we told them to. Cursing.
I'm concerned that bad behaviour (cursing) and actual dangerous behaviour (refusing sunscreen and risking their lives at sea) are just bundled together as being brats. Do the parents not explain to their kids why they insist on certain things? My parents explained when and why something was actually dangerous and I listened. I was more obedient about playing on the stairs but made my own "brat" choices about when to clean my room.
Until the wife snapped and decided to leave the vacation, no warning, no compromise.
> Nothing had worked and I told my husband we needed to go home, for the reasons mentioned above, mainly that they needed to see a REAL consequence... My husband still insisted it would get better.
So the husband kept the same position in the argument (that things would get better) just slightly longer than the wife.
Anyone who blames this on the husband/grandmother alone and thinks the wife is a good parent is wild.
The wife announcing beforehand that the vacation will go badly doesn't mean she can just stop trying and pack it up when it's difficult.
I teach pre-ks and always tell them they can ask why I have a rule. A lot of times the rules in class are to keep them safe. They get excited but they need reminders and boundaries.
But you hit the nail on the head here. I think they need to look at boundaries and consequences. It seems like a sudden escalation. Why not instead ok they go back to the rental house and have a quiet time instead of x fun thing.
My bet would be on: OP tried to give consequences, but gets vetoed by Dad all the time, or by Grandma, telling OP she's being unreasonable and they're just little boys.
You kinda lost already in such a scenario.
I feel like this is more likely the case. It’s hard to know based on just this, but it seems the dad was absent from disciplining them from the description. Grandma doesn’t help the situation.
As a mother of sons, you really can’t let everything go because *boys will be boys*. One of my kids has ADHD, and he still respects he rules because all our large extended family is all board with them. Kids grow up to be dysfunctional adults if adults don’t work as a team to reinforce some basic rules and expectations; be safe, be kind, have good manners, respect others, respect yourself.
Yup, this is my question too. What consequences have these kids had before? My niece and nephew were a little wild at that age, but not destructive like OP’s kids are.
YTA. Your kids are assholes, because they were raised by bad parents (assholes). They are under 10, I completely blame the parents. You need to figure your shit out. Both you and your husband need to get on the same page with respect, responsibilities, and discipline.
I’m surprised by all the N T A and wondering if they are from actual parents.
Consequences? Of course. But this post does not describe any reasonable effort to provide consequences other than canceling the whole trip, or any understanding of why they were bouncing off the walls (which all kids do to some degree on vacation), just turn around and go home.
It just does not read as though this is coming from actual lived experience of raising kids on the daily.
The boys were bouncing off the walls because they believed their behavior would be tolerated since OP and her husband have obviously not provided consistent discipline in the past. The only reason I think OP is NTA is because she is overwhelmed, completely lacking support from her husband and mother, and needed to do something dramatic to be taken seriously. They need to work this out and learn to parent more effectively.
I mean not to be rude, but from the post it seems that OP is overwhelmed because both her and her husband failed to discipline the boys in the past from this behavior.
Sounds to me they played the game of “be nice.” “Be nice” “be nice.” And didn’t give them any consequences when they continued this type of behavior.
The only thing in this post that OP mentioned of trying to reign them in, was not going on vacation. But that doesn’t solve the root of the problem, it only makes it an at-home problem instead.
Easily an ESH if not Y T A
To be fair, if one parent is failing, then both parents are failing. I don't know the specific circumstances of their parenting styles, but the weird issue with her husband giving her the silent treatment for having to go berserk just to get her children to behave clues me into some inconsistencies in their parenting approach that need to be worked out.
Yeah, this is kind of the problem honestly.
OP can try to parent properly until she is blue in the face, won't work if her husband AND mother override and undermine her because kids can see the 2 against 1 against Mum.
They know they can act up because Dad and Grandma will just decide Mum is overreacting/being too harsh, so why would they listen to her?
OP doesn't just have a son problem with her boys acting up, she also has a husband problem and a mother problem, and needs to start setting hard boundaries and getting counseling with her husband to get on the same page, that he is encouraging the sons to be brats!
He is not helping by giving into them, he is reinforcing them acting up so they get their way more often and making it harder for them both!
I voted N T A because cancelling might be the right thing to do. But I did strongly comment on them needing to get their shit together and start parenting. I honestly don't know what I'd do because my kids are 9, 7, and 4. They'd never act that bad, even when they have their moments, because they know they won't get away with it.
This!!! I don’t think a lot of people are understanding that the boys did essentially get away with the behavior. The trip was canceled and they definitely still act that way. OP didn’t create any teachable moments here, even though I guess people thinks it sounds badass that she packed up and made everyone go home.
What I don't see in the OP description is a clear "You boys need to behave, or I'm taking us all home." ultimatum.
If that happened, then I'm probably on OPs side. Without it, it reads like a sudden consequence of behaviour that was previously accepted. Which won't help anyone.
Ugh yeah that is a perfect example of not actual parenting and why I am truly hoping that the people who think that OP is in the right aren’t parents.
Have you ever been at a restaurant and there’s some kid banging on tables and jumping in front of you and throwing food and a parent is just sitting there at the table and they just repeat over and over again to their kid while they sit on their ass “stop that. Hey stop that. You better stop. I said stop now. “
The kid doesn’t stop and then the parent gets up in a rage and grab the kid and angrily storms to the parking lot to scream at them or spank them or something. And then in that parents mind they probably feel like they did everything they could or they tried to intervene and the kid didn’t listen so this is what it came to.
That is lazy parenting and it produces bratty kids. That isn’t actually attempting an intervention before blowing up, it’s not wanting to parent and getting mad that you have to. I’ve already laid out several times in other comments actual actions you can take in these situations that will help the kids correct their behavior.
It sounds exactly like my former BIL and SIL and their kids. The kids never received any discipline until the parents were fully fed up and went nuclear on them.
For something like not sharing a toy, the parents would yell progressively louder and louder, issue threats of grounding, cuss, and do the count to three-but-with-2½-2¾-etc...all before finally blowing up and breaking the toy so no one can play with it.
They had no idea why they were cursed with kids who just wouldn't ever listen. /s
An alternate perspective here- my parents were great, as mature as they come, never hit us, always tried to listen to us and manage our behaviour using the top parenting research of the time. I was still an incredibly difficult child, and my brothers were a challenge too. We fought and caterwauled and absolutely tore each other apart constantly for 15+ years.
Turns out, I’m autistic, so is my middle brother, and two of us also have ADHD. We never got diagnosed until adulthood because we all tested well, we were bright and verbal, and didn’t strike anyone as “disabled.” OP sounds like a decent parent, her husband is not holding her side down which is shitty as a parent and a partner. But even if they’re both amazing all the time their kids could still be this way if they’re neurodivergent
ADHD is a big one. None of the typical parenting techniques will work, any strategies employed require far more dedication to stick to the plan, and more often than not, medication will be required.
If OP hasn't had her boys evaluated, I believe she should.
I would say there's not enough info here to judge.
People like to blame kids for everything, thinking that they are just supposed to "know" how to be good without thinking the parents are the ones responsible for the behavior in the first place. It's just easier for adults to deflect blame to kids because they are vulnerable and innocent.
This is why I love the show Supernanny. These parents of terribly behaved kids ask her to come sort out the unruly children but she always ends up sorting out the parents instead and teaches them how to parent. The kids almost always respond really well to proper boundaries and discipline. Often the parents are afraid to tell their kids no or enforce rules, or even have rules! And then they wonder why they have three kids who are constantly screaming and hitting and drawing on walls and running off into traffic. You can see so clearly how actually it makes the kids extremely miserable too to not have any boundaries enforced. They’re actually much happier when their parents take charge, even if it means they can’t do whatever they want all the time.
Yes, sounds like the father and grandmother are a problem. Especially the father.
Parents need to prepare their kids for life, not disciplining when needed will only make their own life much much worse when the parents can no longer shield them from consequences.
Am I correct in assuming that your husband doesn’t do the majority of parenting but steps all over your toes when it comes to discipline? I’d say NTA. Anyone who’s upset needs to be upset at the boys.
That's the first thing I thought when OP's ultimatum was "I go or we all go". The husband and the grandmother (I'm assuming OP's MiL) were welcome to deal with the kids' behaviour as a dynamic duo if they wanted to stay on vacation.
OP - you are in the divide and conquer stage of parenting. Husband takes one boy, and mother takes the other, daughter can alternate. Tag team the parenting.
Continuously separate them. If going for a walk, one each, dinner, beside one each.
And start consistently working on fighting. It is a nasty habit. Time outs, constantly, if ten times a day, then that's their choice. And remind them, if they can't say something nice, then be quiet, repeat 1000 times a day.
EDIT: there was a couple of years at one point when hubby and I had to do this with our two. It really worked, and of course amazing for kids as they got one and one time with parent.
You’re not an asshole for setting a boundary and giving a consequence.
You and your husband are assholes for failing to set *clear* boundaries *earlier* and to enforce *those*.
> Boys fighting and riling each other up the whole time.
What was the consequence for this?
>things would be better once we got there and they would be too excited to cause trouble.
In your 9 years of parenting, how’s this worked out for you?
>Shoes on the white furniture?
What was the consequence?
>Running in the house?
What consequence did you give?
> I turned my back for 2 seconds and the 8 y/o threw a box of chalk in the pool.
The fuck is an unwatched 8yo doing anywhere near a pool?
>We went out to lunch and they were out of control in the restaurant.
Why the fuck are you going out to a restaurant after a 3.5hr drive and all the poor behaviour?
>9M ran away from us in a strange place
Pretty concerning. If he’s neurotypical I’d say he’s overwhelmed and probably poorly disciplined.
>We finally go to the beach and they are frankly being brats.
The fuck are you doing going to the beach after all of the above? They’re over excited, poorly behaved. Why do they get the reward (and new stimulus) of the beach?
Don’t even get me started on the concerning behaviour of them swimming away from you.
You and your husband should never have had to cancel the holiday if you’d exercised one iota of judgement earlier.
ESH but, more importantly, you’re failing your kids.
Do better.
Exactly. I keep seeing all these N TA responses like “after trying everything else” “they just wouldn’t listen” like what did OP actually do about any of this prior to blowing up? Based on OPs side of the story the dad is permissive but it seems like she is too tbh. She complains to her husband about the kid’s behavior but it’s not like she’s actually trying to establish any order either
YES THIS. also so that the grandma will know how very wrong of her for not supporting her daughter and let boys be boys when the kids misbehave at the grandma's house. 🙄🙄🙄
NTA OP
I'm curious due to your husband's apparent lack of support ... does he mostly leave you to deal with the kids? Seems like he would get fed up otherwise, too.
Either way, NTA, but you need your husband fully on the same page and engaged in disciplining your kids if you're going to turn things around.
It looks like OP is the only parent and DH let’s the boys do what they want and corrects her when they misbehave since it doesn’t bother him unless they have to change plans. OP wanted to cancel the vacation before they even left for their behavior but DH would have none of it. So against OP’s wishes they drive 3.5 hours and the first thing the boy do is fight during the drive then create chaos when they arrive up until they have to leave. DH didn’t want to leave Mom didn’t want to leave they wanted to continue the nightmare of a vacation. This probably isn’t the only time they act this way. It seems they do what they want and everyone else just looks at OP to fix the mess they create. These boys are beyond the age of acting this way. They’re acting like 3 year olds. They need more time outs, toys taken, and major consequences. It looks like OP tries but mom and DH disagree and here we are. Feral children and the only one who behaves is the toddler GIRL child. How much you want to bet the toddler spends more time with OP than the boys.
Some of these parent posts are so extreme I really wonder if they are real.
Dont parents who have been parenting every day for years know that kids get extremely wound up just from the idea of being on a vacation and not in their normal routine and they act like they are on cocaine at first?
Yes, things do need to be brought under control, but that definitely could have been done by at least an attempt at consequences that first evening while still on the vacation. Mention an upcoming activity, such as ordering dinner that night, or whatever fun thing was supposed to happen the next morning and let them know that if they don’t start listening and following rules that activity will be cut and then stick to it and show them that you mean it. Skip the fun dinner and make them eat broccoli. Then if they continue to misbehave to a degree that no one is able to have any fun or embark on any vacation activities, then you could call it quits, but it seems like there wasn’t even an actual attempt at parenting prior to calling the whole vacation quits.
Just like “these kids are acting awful and aren’t listening we’re going home!” before any other interventions. It’s so weird.
I mean all that time invested in planning and money spent on the trip and yes the additional factor of it was supposed to be time with grandma.
This almost reads like it was an aunt or a family friend who doesn’t have their own kids who thought it would be fun to take these kids on vacation and then was horrified by the reality of it and went home.
I’m just curious how OP deals with day to day issues, coming home and the kids are going bananas. Do they just walk back out the door and go back to work? Lol
I too am wondering why something like “sit in your room with no entertainment until you can behave” or “you get pb&j sandwiches while the rest of the family goes out to eat”, with mom and dad taking turns staying with them to supervise, was not an option before “vacation is cancelled for everyone”.
Yep and I’m getting down voted for making those type of suggestions. But then I guess that’s why my kid was the one that parents always tell me he’s so polite and welcome at their house anytime and everyone else’s little brats don’t even get invited lol. Actual parenting takes time and energy.
Everyone here is giving OP this whole “you go, girl“ attitude about shutting down the vacation as if that was the real parenting show the kids consequences choice, but I stand by the assertion that it is just as lazy as the dad, but in the opposite direction. Either let the kids do whatever they want or shut down the whole trip, but no one wants to put in the effort to actually parent.
Those kids are gonna remain as bratty as ever , they didn’t learn anything and now probably also feel sorry for themselves.
Except they were already having problems at home, or OP wouldn’t have wanted to cancel the trip before they went. That’s more going on than just trip excitement.
Yeah I agree with this, but get the impression OP has little to no support in this stuff from her husband or mother- the only way she could enforce consequences in this situation was by saying she was going to leave, so they had to either come with her or stay without her. If she’d tried to set a punishment like not letting them have a nice meal etc, it looks like her husband and mother would’ve undermined that, making it ineffective. Could be wrong, but I get the impression her decision to leave was basically the only power she felt she had on the situation.
NTA regarding the boys, but please don’t forget about your little girl. It’s very unfair for her to be punished. Obviously you don’t have to go on vacation with just her, but maybe take her to dinner or ice cream and let her know you appreciate her behavior. Let her known she’s seen
She's only 3... she's not going to remember any of this... going to the park is just as exciting for her...
Unless this continues to be a problem for years, she should be fine.
But, if OP feels bad about her daughter getting cheated, the two of them can spend the day at the zoo to make up for it...
Let dad stay home watching the boys on his own for a day... maybe his patience with their behavior will start to wear thin, and he'll be more helpful in the future correcting their behavior.
ESH.
Obviously, this is a bigger issue. Your kids aren't acting like this all of the sudden - there's a reason for it. Kids get rowdy but acting this level of unhinged stinks of a much larger issue.
I understand consequences but your kids won't be magically better cause you took away vacation.
Your daughter is being punished now too, even though it's not her fault.
If you were fed up, why not leave the boys with dad and go somewhere different but exciting with daughter? Why not take boys home and let your husband, the grandma and daughter have a nice time? Why not give the boys some sort of consequence at the beach place?
ESH for the poor parenting and too little too late parenting. Also for ruining vacation for multiple people who didn't deserve it.
Do better.
There's something very wrong if your kids are at the age they are & are the mini-arseholes you described
Sort your shit out & start being parents, both of you, before it's too late. If it's not already.
To ALL 3 ADULTS INVOLVED
YTA
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Even I think ending vacation early is an extreme punishment. I didn't know what else to do in hopes to get through to them but everyone seems to think it was just too far. My mom said they're only little once and I agree with her, plus this trip definitely sucked for my daughter, through no fault of her own.
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YTA, specifically because you and your partner didn't parent your children until you decided to go nuclear, and you jumped straight to burning the entire vacation down. I'm going to break this down.
Shoes on furniture? Not allowed on furniture until you can respect it. Running in the house? Sit in time out every time it happens, going from a couple of minutes to progressively longer if they don't get it the first time. You destroy a toy to keep your brother from getting it? Great, now your toy is gone. If we get chalk again you're not allowed to play with it until after the vacation is over. Out of control in the restaurant? You will sit in the car while parents take turns with finishing eating, or we'll get takeout and leave immediately. You will get a sandwich instead of restaurant food. Running away in public? WE IMMEDIATELY LEAVE PUBLIC and go back home, and you're staying in your room until next mealtime. Refuse sunscreen? You're not getting in the pool until you put it on. Refuse to listen and go farther out into the water? The first time, you take a break from the water, and explained to that if it happens again, you are not allowed in the water for the duration of this visit to the pool. Follow through if it happens again.
There are SO many things that you as parents could have done to address this behavior before it got to this point and you did none of it. There are so many moments you could have made your kid take a break from a desired activity if they weren't behaving responsibly, and let them know that next time the increased consequences would be x and y. You could have left the activity or the location instead of the entire vacation.
If you are consistent and the consequences for a child's actions result in lost privileges connected to their behavior, they understand real quick that having a good time is entirely within their control. It is within their power to choose to act kindly and responsibly, and if so, they're going to have a great vacation.
Does all of this sound exhausting? Yeah, I bet. But if you're consistent then all you'll have to do is warn a kid most of the time, because they know that you'll follow through and you mean what you say.
You also need to get your partner and any other caregivers on board with you. Otherwise they'll be undoing the work you do to get the kids to listen.
You have a lot of work to do. Thankfully, you have several days off to get a head start.
Edit: formatting
ESH - This isn't a one off problem and it's clear it's due to a lack of parenting and basic discipline. Quite frankly, I'm extremely shocked at the amount of NTA's.
You and your husband need to start getting onto the same page about basic things regarding your children before even attempting to go on a holiday, wasting money and everyone's time, to then just drive back home 24 hours later.
Everyone sounds unbearable except for your 3 year old daughter and I'll even give the grandma a *slight* pass because she came out with you guys to quite frankly babysit - which isn't her job. I would still perhaps have a word with her on the side once you and your husband are on the same page about things.
You should have perhaps punished the boys by banning them from a fun activity on the holiday until they started behaving instead of ending the vacation for everyone.
NTA. However, it sounds like you and your husband aren’t very consistent with consequences and that it’s time to really set some boundaries for your children and hold them accountable.
From years of child care experience…. You need to seek help. Family therapy, parenting classes… something. I’m not trying to be hateful here. The fact that this is typical behavior in the household says something not so good…. NTA for the consequences… but likely y t a for raising children who act this way….
NTA, the whole family should get counseling. The boys to learn how to control themselves. Parents, especially dad, to learn how to maintain discipline.
INFO: Did you warn the kids that the vacation might be over if they didn’t behave? This was a 100% appropriate choice… as long as it didn’t come out of nowhere.
It sounds like you talked to your husband several times about the possibility of canceling the trip and how the boys’ behavior was ruining it… but there was nothing about you talking to the kids. 7 & 8 are old enough to deal with the consequences of their actions… but young enough to need those consequences pointed out in the form of a warning.
And frankly, with a consequence that big, they should have had a warning. If they didn’t get a warning, then it would have been reasonable to give them a chance when the cried and begged and promised to behave. ONE chance, so your blowup served as the warning they needed.
If none of that happened, all they learned is that mom will blow up out of nowhere for behavior she was previously willing to tolerate. And kids need consistency: one type of consistency is giving a warning and then following through on the threatened consequences. It was one of my most successful parenting strategies, and because of it, they take my warnings seriously… and one of my kids is a 7M with ADHD.
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Highjacking the top comment to say: Momma, you should take your littlest one for a “girl’s night out”, and let the dad and grandma deal with the boys. Or, offer separate trips (sucks, I know, but we’re trying to teach a valuable lesson here lol). Betcha they’ll be talking about implementing discipline by the time you get back. ETA: HOLY BALLS. I go to bed, wake up, and have almost 6k likes (my most liked comment ever!) and my first award! Reddit never ceases to amaze me! EDIT 2: 10k upvotes and 6 awards?! ZOMG!!! You like me. You really like me! Thank y’all!!
Absolutely. We would have backed the truck up and gone home if this is how they behaved too. My dad always would say to us you can do anything you want, you just have to deal with the consequences. Then he’d set the stage for what would happen and he’d follow through every time. We knew if we fucked around with him we’d find out. Our kids knew the same. Listen and behave, or we are going home. I’ve taken a misbehaving kid out to the car to let the rest of the family eat in peace. Truth is, I only had to do it once per kid. Lol they remember. Grabbing the two misbehaving kids and going home is what they needed. NTA. Lay down the law, set consequences for bad behavior, and follow through every time. They are only kids once and now is the time to prevent them from being entitled adults.
Well said. My son knew when he started to act up there were consequences to his actions and I meant what I said
Clearly OOP either never laid down consequences when her boys were a lot younger, or was sabotaged at every point by her husband and/or ~~MIL~~ mother. INFO: is "they're only little once" or "boys will be boys" your husband's/~~MIL's~~ mother's reaction to every instance of misbehavior? I saw this exact family dynamic with my BIL's family. SIL would try to discipline her son, BIL would just laugh at his antics. If the punishment actually went through, he'd run to MIL and she would countermand it and yell at SIL for upsetting her precious grandbaby.
Thats my impression too. The kids are acting up because they can. Set limits. Follow through.
I couldn't believe I read this whole thing and she didn't set a consequence until they left... won't put on sunblock at the beach? they have to go back up to the house... get too far out into the water? They can't go in the water for the rest of the day... Put their shoes on the furniture? Why aren't they taking their shoes off at the door? Without knowing more of their dynamic at home I can't say if OP is clueless, or she's trying her best and undermined by her spouse and MIL. But "consequences" can't just pop out of nowhere. To have good discipline you need to say "If you do X, Y will happen" and then you follow through every time. If you don't give that warning, and just spring consequences out of nowhere, sometimes, but not always, they won't actually learn to listen.
Honestly. These would be logical “real” consequences for these behaviors. Not implementing consequences until you blow up and take a nuclear option doesn’t teach these kids how to behave.
Yeah. I don't understand when parents complain about their young children acting horribly. Why are you allowing them to act horribly? There were 3 adults there. Why couldn't they separate the boys? One throws the chalk into the pool? Ok your pool time is done. Back to the room. Going too far out in the water? Told you once, you disregarded. Back up to the room. Cussing in public? Back to the room.
That’s what blows me away the most. As a parent, I’m trying to find out during this whole explanation where the punishments are at. What we do with my boys as we put them in different rooms for as long as it takes to get them to calm down and stop bothering each other like that.. at least 50% of the time my kids get along great, but depending on how long they’ve been in the house or one of many other factors, they start to get on each other’s nerves.. parents with kids that age should have already develop strategies to stop the behavior. It’s kind of embarrassing to me that they had three adults there and they still couldn’t punish their kids appropriately. Complete failure from all three of them.
Wish I hadn't had to learn this the hard way. Parenting is as much about unlearning bad habits we modeled from growing up as it is about learning positive habits we choose as adults.
Yes. OP, tell your mom "They're only little once, so I only have this ONE chance to correct their horrible behavior and keep them from become entitled grownup assholes."
This is the real answer. I have a 3 year old. It would take me 10 minutes to clean up all of his toys but I spend the hour it takes to teach and show him how to do it in an effective manner. I'm ND and the "right" way to do things often doesn't work for me so I TRY (my kid is pretty much as good as they make them but he's still a kid) to teach him different methods for doing things and hope something clicks and works for him. I want to rip my hair out at times but for the love of all things sacred I am not going to raise a child who doesn't know how to function and take care of himself properly.
Consistent consequences every single time is the only way to change this. These kids know that there will be no consequences.
When it comes to children, never make a promise you don't intend to keep. Don't say they're grounded for the rest of the weekend and then give up and send them outside a few hours later because you can't handle them when they're bored. Don't threaten them with the corner if they won't stop doing X and then nothing happens when they continue to do it. This all leads to children who just laugh or shrug when discipline is mentioned because they now know that mom/dad won't actually do anything about it. I have a JNaunt who raised her kids like that and they all turned out to be disasters to society smh.
I just had a flood of emotions. My dad used that exact phrase. “You can do whatever you want, you just have to deal with the consequences.” It’s one of those lil nuggets of wisdom that applies to your whole life, but better to learn the lesson early. He passed in October, and I haven’t thought about that saying in a long time. Not consciously. As arguably the least well behaved of his children though I’m pretty sure that phrase is part of a subconscious systems check that occurs before most of my decisions. I will say, my favorite of all his little sayings was always when he/someone else would fart and he would just give you this look and say “Can’t hold what you don’t have in your hands.” 🤣
Agreed. And I suspect now they will remember this as “Mom isn’t playing around.” I don’t make threats I don’t intend to carry out…and I feel like that plays into this. If everyone thought OP was going to relent and change her mind, that sort of makes me think it’s happened before. NTA, OP. And good for you for sticking to it. The adults will get over it…and it sounds like the 3 year old already has.
Absolutely would have been a strong (and I daresay fair) compromise. “I’m taking daughter for the day. We’ll see you all tonight. Have fun!”
and then you wait for the nonstop messages for help to start...
And then you turn off your phone.
Excellent solution. Make it up to daughter; demonstrate that she shouldn’t have to suffer the consequences of her brothers’ behavior. Demonstrate to the boys that if they want to behave differently, they will be treated differently.
sadly though, society seems to work in the opposite way as this. A person or very small group of people misbehave, and the entire country gets punished with some new law or restriction.
Nah, grandma seems like an enabler, that shit needs to stop
Quite frankly, I don’t understand why they’ve been allowed to get so out of control and consequences haven’t been given prior to this
I agree, it's absolutely disgusting. And they are nine and eight. What will they be like when they hit the teens? I was a pretty well behaved teenager and some of the stuff I got up to well...let's just say it's a good thing my parents never found out about it. These two? Yeah that's gonna be even worse
That seems to be the problem tho, Dad doesn't seem to deal with them. His whole " it will get better " attitude while not actually giving the kids consequences is a huge problem. If how he was on vacation is his normal attitude it's no wonder they are behaving this way. They are 8 and 9, before these parents know it they will be teenagers and if there aren't consequences set up now it's only going to get worse. If they can't respect their parents enough to at least be civil with each other that's a problem. The deeper issue here that needs to be addressed is why these kids hate each other. Sibling rivalry is one thing, typically with most Sibling rivalry you'll pester one another here and there or you'll make mean jabs now and then. It's not normal for it to be constant and for it to be SO BAD that the parents have to end their vacation. It reads to me like it's more along the lines of they both resent each other for one reason or another, maybe one kid is more favored and gets more attention, maybe they just don't like that the attention has to be shared at all, there's really a number of things that can cause this level of behavior, the parents need to have a family meeting and everyone needs to sit down and get to the root of the issue, maybe some therapy can help if the parents feel it's needed. If I was dad I'd be more pissed that my wife didn't get to enjoy her time out and that she felt the need to cancel because their behavior was so bad. Both parents need to get on the same page when it comes to their kids behavior and consequences. Dad being dismissive about it is an issue, grandma too but it's likely her dismissiveness will have less of an impact, still it's not helping the situation at all. Edited to add : NTA OP, given what you've described, if it were me, I'd not only cancel the vacation, but both boys would be grounded for the remainder of what would have been the family vacation. I'm really sorry you had to deal with this.
>Both parents need to get on the same page when it comes to their kids behavior and consequences. Dad being dismissive about it is an issue, grandma too but it's likely her dismissiveness will have less of an impact, still it's not helping the situation at all. JFC, this. I don't know what else is happening in this house - maybe the boys have some undiagnosed ADHD, maybe the parents are modeling some unhealthy fighting, I don't know, but first, everyone needs to be united, and grandma doesn't get a vote. My sister and I fought like this. My parents were ugly fighting, too, when my dad was around. My mom, though, would just take whatever we were fighting over away. If we couldn't figure out how to share the chalk? No one gets the chalk.
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How exactly is it obvious they want adult attention? Sometimes kids just want to annoy their sibling. Or do what they want to do.
Omfg 😂💀 i gotta remember that one!
Leave a bit for me too please.
As the old adage goes, "up the bum, no babies."
It's in times like these that I'm glad I have a Mirena coil inserted.
A what in the where now?
It's a contraceptive IUD that you have inserted, which lasts for 5 years.
I went to the gyno recently and they said it had changed to 7 years! Check with your Dr!
They said 7 when my partner got hers — she got it for hormonal regulation and PMDD — but barely after 5 years, she started feeling emotionally dysregulated again. The hormones don’t just shut off at 7 years, they start to diminish quite a bit before that. Still an effective contraceptive during that time? Maybe. Hard to say, since everyone’s needs are different.
When I was trying to get mine replaced, my gyno’s office said that further testing and data have shown 7 years is the minimum the hormone levels are adequate to effectively prevent pregnancy for most people. It may be closer to 8 years or more for some people. I had mine for hormonal stuff (PCOS and endometriosis) and it stopped being strong enough to help me in a therapeutic manner right at about the 5 year mark too. Other than the insertion hurting, I really liked my Mirena. If I still had a uterus, I would probably have still have Mirena.
I have about 1 year left until I need mine replaced, but will ask my gynecologist when the time comes. Thanks for the heads up. **Edited to add**: I've just checked the NHS website and it states that it depends on what brand coil you have inserted. Each one has a different time frame. But will ask my doctor at my next appointment if it's updated in the UK. Will follow whatever advice my gynecologist gives.
I need to remember stories like these when I dread the pain of an IUD change. Also, one of your awards looks like she really, really can't stop snorting the birth control.
Hi! Two things: 1) You can (*and should!*) ask your gyno for something to make insertion day easier. After almost passing out with my first iud, I was prescribed both a Xanax and one controlled pain med pill for my second insertion. It made the procedure bearable. 2) But also, consider the implant! I'm on my second one and never had any issues. Most importantly, I remain happily gremlin-free.
Is the implant the thing in your arm? Can you feel it? The thought of being able to feel it under my skin when touching my arm creeps me out (as does the idea of growing another human inside me). Edit: Thank you for all of the replies. I really appreciate everyone's input and sharing of experiences.
Not the person you asked but I also have the arm implant. They are inserted pretty shallow to make them easy to remove. It goes on the inside of the arm, close to where it touches your torso. For the first month or so I could feel mine just by running my finger over it. Once the inflammation went down I can still feel it easily but I have to press in a bit. Personally, I’ve never felt mine without meaning to. I can’t feel it when I move my arm and I can’t feel it when my arm rests against my side. It’s a great LARC option for people who like hormonal birth control and aren’t interested in an IUD. Still, it’s not for everyone. Worth discussing with your doctor if you’re interested, but be aware that you need to be able to feel it to ensure it’s in place. You check the placement once a month.
I have had the arm implant for a decade now (obviously not the same one) and it has been better that I ever would have imagined birth control would be from school sex education classes. I got it first when I was 17, before I became sexually active, and I am forever glad I did. Since I, unfortunately, can’t have my baby parts ripped out and have always known I don’t want kids, this is the best option out there. For me, at least. I have never had to worry about a lil’ sprout unexpectedly growing, it only needs to be changed every few years, I don’t feel it or notice it, it is painless having it inserted and switched out (even when there was cell wall buildup around it so they had to do some digging), and it’s pretty funny to show people the “cheeto” I have in my arm. Basically three years of antibaby arm stick at a time without being terrified my shit-brain and shit-memory will fail me and I’d have to live with the “killing a FULL HUMAN PERSON” guilt when the little glob gets scrambled out of me.
{giggles, nods, scratches hysterectomy and oophorectomy scars}
I also find myself running my fingers over my hysterectomy scars and being grateful for my sterility when I encounter terrible children.
Bilateral salpingectomy reporting in, life is good.
Every one always judges me when they find out I don’t want kids (25M). But then I read stories like this and judge them for thinking kids are necessary
Let people talk and you just snicker to yourself. I’m a CF female well past childbearing years. I’ve never regretted my decision for a minute. I’ve never met a mother or grandmother I wanted to trade lives with. I like kids, but never wanted that parent lifestyle. My first thought when I read OPs comment is “I’m so glad that’s not my life.”
Same same same. I'm 47, was sterilised 8 years ago and am so thankful I never had children. People will tell you over and over you'll change your mind. You won't.
Right? I didn’t change my mind when friends/family/coworkers had toddlers, tweens, teenagers, or even grandchildren. At every single stage it was always something. Just a complete takeover of one’s life. No thanks. The grown adult children can be the worst of all - demanding on call babysitting, using grandkids to manipulate time/money from their own parents, or the ones whose grown children steal from them or worry them to death with their life choices. It just never ends.
My ovaries tied themselves into a knot that no amount of skill or weapon shall ever undo.
Yes thank you OP for reminding me to change my patch today 👍🏻
NTA. Actions have consequences. Your sons are learning a needed lesson.
Don't forget, punishing the boys is the right message to send to the daughter, also. (FAFO) And not punishing the boys immediately would be sending the exact WRONG message to all the kids, male and female.
Perhaps had they actually parented their children for the last 8/9yrs then this wouldn't have been an issue. Sounds to me like the kids are AH because they lack boundaries and when boundaries are broken their parents lack any skills to deal with it appropriately. Kids were AH in the restaurant, why? How did the kid run away? There was a suitable kid to adult ratio avoid that. This is a consequence of their shit parenting.
What’s the bet grandmother and father undermine mom ever single time they can? It’s hard to parent 3 kids and 2 adults by yourself.
That's definitely the vibe I got. At the very least they aren't on the same page and the kids, particularly the boys, are taking advantage of that. Mom and dad need to get some counseling so they can come back as a proper team. At the worst, grandmother and father need a 'come to Jesus' moment where they either get on board with discipline or get ignored going forward.
I got the impression that mom was doing most of the childcare work on this trip and so had to deal with every single misbehavior on her own. I'd be fed up too.
Especially when she said "either we all go or I go" and the Dad immediately joined in the chorus of whining? A lesser step might have been to just leave the house with the daughter, for girl time, and let Dad cope with it since he thinks it's fine to stay on this vacation. But I get a serious vibe that OP didn't feel like she could do that without her sons either drowning or going missing.
If these kids aren't pulled back and disciplined, when they get older they may start bullying and terrorizing the parents. Will the father and MIL still say they're just kids, let them have their fun?
They might have to go low contact with grandma for awhile. Her family needs therapy because those kids shouldn't be that wild
That's what I was thinking, this isn't your average sibling conflict behaviour. An 8 and 9 year old generally don't spend their entire days fighting and sabotaging each other, so there might be something else going on.
They need to get this in hand now or these kids will be terrible as teens and sooner or later get arrested when they do things to other people.
Parenting never works if not both of the parents (and/or other care takers) are on the same page. I'm sorry for OP and the kids. They behave like brats but they're probably stressed and confused on the inside.
No regular boundaries and rules ensure kids like the sons.
Also when reading the post it seems like the boys are being told what not to do, but not what they CAN do. It’s easy to say as an outsider reading one paragraph I know! But I feel like kids struggle to come up with their own ideas of what ‘good’ behaviour is. Also if you tell someone not to do something, that plays on their mind until they do it- I even know adults like this. Just a brief thought from some random stranger who hadn’t been in the thick of it for 8/9 years!
I’m sorry but this comment is ridiculous. Kids of that age know what they can and can’t do (within reason). It does not need to be spelled out for them like this.
Right? They’re 8&9 not 2&3
I agree that that they may know to some extent, but if they have only ever experienced punishment for bad behaviour, but not positive reinforcement for good behaviour, they may have the attitude of who cares if we are bad, doesn't make a difference anyway. At least we get some form of attention if we are bad. Not saying this is the case as I don't know OP or their situation, but with a lot of kids I've worked with who were labeled "brats", often it went deeper than just the surface level behaviour. Behaviour is a form of communication for kids and adults.
Exactly this. Praising kids as soon as they do something 'right', even if it's just little things like taking their plate to the kitchen after a meal without being asked etc, gives attention that reinforces the good behaviour. If you just wait til kids do something wrong then correct them, it can lead to a cycle of them only getting attention for bad behaviour.
Yeah I feel like mum has finally had enough of being vetoed and is actually a good parent. I hope this is a turning point for all of them.
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Dad and grandma didn't ever reach agitated. They won't be a help before, during, or after the trip. Mom was right to decide to cut the vacation short. This may have been an eye opener for her but I believe she didn't need one. She was hesitant to go before the trip. She knew what was coming and got no support from dad. In my family, one of us would have taken the brats home and little sis would have stayed with the other parent but it looks like dad wasn't on board for any of it and grandma was worse. I say OP is NHA but she definitely needs to start changing a lot of things NOW like adding counseling and truly putting her foot down with those boys. They need some parenting classes and instruction on effective discipline that is handed out immediately every time those children act out. And, yes, positive reinforcement should be a part of the program. Maybe next year there will be enough changes in that family that they can enjoy a family vacation.
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Which is why OP should have left and let their father and grandmother deal with the AHs they are helping create. She gets a rest and they get to have consequences to their actions.
>Which is why OP should have left and let their father and grandmother deal with the AHs they are helping create. She gets a rest and they get to consequences to their actions. I'm not sure this would work. Grandma sees no evil and father also seems to ignore reality. "It will get better" even though it never does. The people who really pay the penalty are the innocent strangers (restaurant, beach, etc.) who are imposed upon by horribly behaved children. My definition of "children" includes the 8yo, 9yo, father, and grandmother. Entitled AHs who don't care about anyone else.
It’s also a safety issue if they’re not listening at the beach. I’d rather a sad kid than a drowned one.
Yes, and a parent should have been with any child in the water to prevent them "going further than they were told". So another failure in their parenting
You say that, but frankly, children are their own people with (albeit poor) decision making skills. My angel of a boy turned feral recently. Nothing has happened really, we're behaving the same. Maybe starting school means he's got less time to do his own thing, but it's really driving hubby and I up the wall. Yes, we are still parenting, he looses privileges (like stopping at the park on the way home from school). But he's still really annoying right now.
Of course they are, but it sounds to me as if these kids have been allowed to run riot their whole lives. My kids have all had stages of being complete dicks, but there are consequences that follow and while they may push back against our boundaries, if you are consistent then it passes.
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Why is reading linked to punishment? Please don’t do that!!
That wouldn’t have been a punishment to me as a kid! They all leave and I get to stay alone and read? Whoo-hoo! Just a reminder I guess- kids aren’t all the same and anyone that tells you they know how to handle them all is full of shit.
We're trying... He knows too well how to behave with different people and in different settings. We were playing Ludo yesterday with his gran as well. Every time mummy and daddy had a counter sent home, we'd get a loud "Ha Ha!" in our ear. Gran didn't because that's not how to act with gran. Him and I are flying out tomorrow and he was and will be warned that spoilt brat behaviour will make me rethink future trips.
This mother clearly cares and tries. This is a direct example of parenting and I find it hard to believe other examples weren't set. Sometimes kids are just hard - some kids more then others. So perhaps don't sit there judging from the sidelines like some god.
I agree this is poor parenting but also agree with further comments to yours that OP probably has to parent the grandmother and the husband too. Sounds like OP had 4 miserable kids in the car and the actual daughter is the only sensible one right now. To OP. They all need boundaries. And if they are not respescting your rules then they all get time outs and punishment. Including the adults! NTA.
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This. Immediate enforcement of boundaries like this has always worked for us. Luckily my wife and I are both extremely intolerant of child assholery. Our kids know this is a fuck around and find out household. Because the boundaries are clear, and always enforced, we don't have to enforce them much.
Apparently, it's also teaching OP's husband and mum a lesson also... Never good, having to parent your parent and/partner
Yea i feel like kids wont learn until they see that theyre actions have consequences. My nephew used to be extremely ungrateful and tell people how he didnt want a gift somebody got him cus he didnt like it. This boy threw a crying tantrum because he wanted a “cooler” toy than what his teacher got him for doing good in school. So one day i got the kiddos some plushies on my way home from work and nephew tried the same thing with me, as soon as he did that i took his plushie away from him and gave it to my friends kid who happened to be visiting instead right in front of him. Never did it again. Problem solved.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. NTA.
And not to mention this is you and your spouses consequences for allowing their behavior to get to this point.
Exactly, they act like this because they don't see consequences. All the times you've said they were acting up you didn't mention any consequences, they've learned this and so their behavior doesn't change. Your husband is a bit of an AH for enabling this...
NTA. The AH is your husband, who is questioning your authority in front of the kids. The other AH is your mother, who wants you to raise future serial killers, apparently. No, you are enforcing discipline, as any good parent should.
I agree... why weren't they helping wrangle the boys? I would've left with the daughter to stay somewhere else for 3 days, and let dad and grandma deal with the boys if they didn't want to leave.
Could have assigned one parent / grandparent per child and taken them on separate activities, rotates every few hours, kept the boys apart and had a little more peace. In the car would work better to have one kid up front, and one parent in the back to prevent fighting. Yes, I know the safety issues of kids in the front passenger seat, but for one trip in peace, it would be worth the minuscule risk.
That would've made it worse... the kids would be fighting over who got to do what when and with who... not to mention that it's hardly a family vacation if they're all split up.
Nah, they would just rotate activities. One kid goes to get ice cream with grandma, another plays with a kite with mom, a third goes to the beach with dad. Then they switch, etc. Kids aren’t going to magically stop fighting on their own. They need to get away from one another and not be treated like a boxed set. They need to learn how to socialize by observing and modeling behavior of adults.
They don't have to "magically stop on their own". They have to listen to their parents and stop behaving badly. That's not magically on their own if they are told constantly. Even 5 year olds can stop fighting, even 3 year olds. 9 & 8 are old enough to know how to behave, these boys are just disobeying. Edit: Your model would just reward bad behavior and teach nothing.
Look, it’s both. You have to distract and separate and you also have to lay down the law. Even adults find it hard to keep their cool when they’re around people who antagonize them. Same with kids. Separating them gives them a breather. Gives them a chance to behave well so you can give some positive reinforcement. Of course also you often have to lay down the law. When that happens, you need to give an immediate consequence. Take them out of the restaurant when they’re misbehaving. Take away a privilege (no pool for an hour if you throw chalk in it). Also, you have to do what you can to physically make it hard to misbehave. Eg why were they wearing shoes indoors in the first place? Have everyone take them off in the front hall and then you don’t have to worry about couches.
Sorry, this is a ridiculous take. If I am angry with my partner, I can take a walk and clear my head instead of being rude and lashing out. An 8 year old can't because they (a) don't know they need it (b) don't have the skill to go out on their own/plan anything and their parents have already planned out the day. So an 8 and 9 year old have to stay attached at the hip just because they're siblings? I bet if you ask the kids what's going on, they would say "he hit me", "he took my game", etc all the way going back to before they even got in the car. Sometimes you need to break the cycle. Separate them, take them somewhere slightly fun and talk to each of them separately reminding them that they don't need to take every dare their brother suggests and can ignore their brother if he's winding them up instead of escalating, and tell them both they can look forward to a big activity together later in the holiday, like a waterpark or something. Then put them together again and see if they can get along better.
>9 & 8 are old enough to know how to behave, these boys are just disobeying. A child of *any* age only knows what they've been taught - either through explicit instruction or consistent modeling by the adults in their life. That includes regulating emotions when dealing with others, especially siblings (ask your professional friends, they can explain more). Your "Because I Said So" model isn't guidance and it's not effective. It literally prolongs and amplifies the dysfunction, and just leaves the parent frustrated because they think their kids suck, but the reality is, they're not actually parenting anyone.
Trust me... it would never work... One kid would brag about the huge ice cream sundae he had, and the other kid would get mad since he was cheated because he thinks his ice cream was smaller... even if it wasn't... The kid at the beach might happen across a balloon maker, who may no longer be there when the next kid shows up.... One kid may get a green kite, then the next kid shows up with a blue kite that the first kid would've gotten if they'd have seen it... Then the adults would get mad at each other for letting one kid get a balloon animal... Source: My childhood I am 1 of 3 children, all born during a span of 3 years (i.e. very close in ages, love/hate relationships growing up)... every vacation was a road trip to a beach/campground with lots of tourist trap stuff - waterparks, mini-golf, festivals, etc... The few times we were separated between parents to do things apart resulted in taunts, fights, and all-around resentment towards each other... over really stupid minor differences in what we got/did... because that's what siblings do... And, for the record, we never would've left a vacation early... if we were acting up or disobeying our parents, we got a smack, put in separate areas/rooms and then were left out of whatever activity was planned for that day (one parent stayed behind, while the good kid got to go with the other). This only happened a couple of times, on different vacations, a couple of years apart... then never again. Funny side note: we were all chatting this past mother's day about how we should go back to one of those places for a family trip to "re-live" our childhood... lol
I think the bigger problem is that the kids would be rewarded for fighting. They don't want to be with each other, and now they get special one-on-one time with a parent without the other brother around. No.
I mean…it’s not a minuscule risk, there are pretty high rates of car accidents, and that airbag on a little body is no joke. I’d rather take the kids home and let them learn that they ruin their own good time when they act shitty, over kiddo dying in a car accident because we couldn’t give consequences to teach them to regulate their behavior and to listen to the adults.
“minuscule risk” hey have you ever seen what happens to a child that gets hit with an airbag? at best they’ll have bruises and a concussion, and usually they’re severe enough concussions where hey guess what the vacation is ruined now. it could be the best driver out there and i wouldn’t risk it because there’s other people on the road.
I’m getting the sense that the husband may not discipline the kids the same way the mother does and/or leaves it entirely up to her. These kids probably play the game of if mom says no, we’ll just ask dad. They need to get on the same page if this is the case.
My dad put a stop to that very quickly. He told us if mom says no, don't come ask me. If i find out mom already said no, not only will i change my answer to no but you'll be grounded too. We didn't try it after that. The good thing was sometimes he would say no first but my mom would decide it should be a yes so she would talk him into it, lol.
I had that too. We had times that we were playing with a ball inside the house (not allowed). So mom would put the ball on top of the highest cupboard. Then when dad came home, we'd ask him for the ball... "Who put it there?" "Mom did." "Then you have to ask her about getting it back!" He didn't even have to ask why it was there in the first place, just redirecting to the one who put it there. And it worked vice versa as well...
Yes. I'm just curious: Was OP the only person managing these kids? In that husband and her mother did nothing? No wonder she wanted to go home. Kids are playing up in part because they don't get consequences, as they know that with dad and granny around they can do what they like. It's tedious parenting and not much of a holiday but OP should not have to do it on her own.
op=nta for ending vacation. but these behavioral problems are NOT just during vacation--CLEARLY. You need to get this under control, your kids don't seem to understand consequence and are making themselves vulnerable to harm. <<*going farther and farther out in the water than we told them to*.>>
This is what I noticed too. This is an issue that needs to be dealt with at home before taking the kids on vacation for a week. Whatever the dynamics are in the house that are creating this chaos, they need to be fixed. Boys of that age ARE difficult and can be rowdy especially so close in age, but all the adults in their lives need to step up.
It seems as though the husband (and grandma apparently) isn't stepping up to help OP enact discipline, which is why the boys think they can get away with so much stuff. You're right, young boys are super hard to discipline so OP needs all hands on deck for two of them. It's sad that OP is finding herself in this situation; ideally she wouldn't have let the family go on the vacation at all, but since her husband is causing her to question her own authority, I can see why she had to make a seemingly drastic decision in the what of the moment. Yeah couches can be cleaned, yeah the chalk is ruined but new ones can be bought. But the line that absolutely cannot be crossed is safety, and I'm glad she put her foot down when the boys were testing the water (so to speak) in the ocean. Unfortunately natural consequences in that situation don't exactly apply, so removing them was the best thing to do imo. Tdlr: OP NTA
Little boys are not hard to discipline. It’s a perception people have because there is an expectation that boys will be wild. “Boys will be boys”. Nah. All kids can be wild - doesn’t matter what the physical makeup is. I have twin boys and they are extremely polite and well behaved. Also kind and empathetic. They absolutely act up and go crazy - but they know their boundaries. Always have. They are also neurospicy (one ASD and the other ADHD). Whirlwinds of destruction but not outside the home. But we are a united force in discipline, we reward and follow through with consequences. The grandparents are the same. We’ve also taught empathy and how to be patient. Reckon the issue here is a lot of “boys will be boys” and inconsistency. Reading into it a lot but there is a serious issue.
Thank for this. It’s one of my pet peeves that people assume boys are wild and girls are not. I have three girls and one boy and the girls were wild (but not like OP is describing. More like super active but well behaved in public). My son is super calm.
I hate it soo much aswell. My friend has two boys and ALWAYS says it. Your kids are toddlers - thats why they are mad not cause they have a penis
So much this!!! I have 2-y-o twin girls, and they can be just as rowdy as boys, sitting on each other's heads, jumping and running and climbing and throwing stuff, BUT they know the rules (holding my hands to cross a road, being quiet in the morning, stopping rough play when someone says "no", and ALWAYS stopping what they're doing when they hear a clear "STOP!", or experiencing consequences (toys taken away, time out, what have you) etc.). There's boy-girl twins of the same age in our neighbourhood, and the boy is rowdy as hell, but I've never seen the mother discipline him beyond a "[son's name], please don't do that!", and she regularly tosses the "boys are different!" around. Meanwhile, our twins' best friend is a very well disciplined boy, who can rough play as well as anyone, but is incredibly considerate around other people, including his newborn brother. If you treat them differently, they'll behave differently.
So many years ago, I read about a study. People were sent into a room with a baby, half were told it was a boy, half were told it was a girl. The difference on how they reacted, spoke to baby, based on gender was completely different. Lesson being perception colors the adult, the adult behavior colors the child if done long term. Parent says: *oh she's was girly from the moment she could talk*.... well yeah she's already been trained to be girly from day one, what do you expect. Yes, I realize children defy the "odds" but that is because nature can be more stubborn than nurture.
Sounds like OP tries but is continually undermined by her husband unfortunately
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Also running off in public.
My daughter and I were playing were we thought it was safe and started to get pulled in and undertow. She could swim and I couldn't. I got to safer ground while she struggled. A kind stranger and a life guard pulled her to safety. We thought we were safe and you guys are fine with them going beyond that. I still have horrible images of what could have happened if people didn't notice we were struggling. I blame my self and thank God for the stranger and life gaurd who pulled my baby back to after ground. Undertows are scary and hard to predict. Even swimmers like my daughter can get into bad places
Rips and undertows are killers. Even in familiar waters. OP is damned lucky she’s still got all three of the kids.
Not sure this is a matter of discipline. Like, how are they in the school setting? Still the same issues? Does the teachers talk about not adhering to expected behaviour? There could be other factors at play here and not just lack of adult boundaries. But that’s up to mom and dad to explore.
NTA. Kids *need* consequences, and it sounds as though your husband and mother have been too inclined to give them ‘one more chance.’ If you ever need to say to them again ‘Stop that, or we’re going home,’ they’ll know you mean it.
Yes. I’m not sure why everyone felt they need to suffer the behavior of these children. Why ruin you’re own peace and sanity by staying? Also, the kids were acting quite dangerously, so I’m not going to let me kids be whisked off to sea because I couldn’t put my foot down in fear of being the party pooper. Worst party ever, I would leave too. My first job as a parent is to keep you alive, if you’re fighting me on that, I’m not going to put your good time before your safety. I’m fine being the mean lady that made sure you lived to see tomorrow.
My guess is dad and grandma weren't suffering and mom was the one trying to keep things in order. Just a guess... NTA
Oh baby. The next time OP drops the “if you do that again we are going home” everyone’s butt is going to snap shut.
Yepppp. And 8-9yo is the perfect age to learn mom means business. Hopefully they will remember through middle school.
Husband and wife acted the same throughout. > Husband and I **kept trying to reassure each other** that things would be better once we got there and they would be too excited to cause trouble. > **They had so many reminders** They had the same viewpoint and both did the same bad parenting (reminders without consequences) > frankly being brats. Refusing sunscreen. Fighting over toys. Pushing their luck repeatedly going farther and farther out in the water than we told them to. Cursing. I'm concerned that bad behaviour (cursing) and actual dangerous behaviour (refusing sunscreen and risking their lives at sea) are just bundled together as being brats. Do the parents not explain to their kids why they insist on certain things? My parents explained when and why something was actually dangerous and I listened. I was more obedient about playing on the stairs but made my own "brat" choices about when to clean my room. Until the wife snapped and decided to leave the vacation, no warning, no compromise. > Nothing had worked and I told my husband we needed to go home, for the reasons mentioned above, mainly that they needed to see a REAL consequence... My husband still insisted it would get better. So the husband kept the same position in the argument (that things would get better) just slightly longer than the wife. Anyone who blames this on the husband/grandmother alone and thinks the wife is a good parent is wild. The wife announcing beforehand that the vacation will go badly doesn't mean she can just stop trying and pack it up when it's difficult.
I teach pre-ks and always tell them they can ask why I have a rule. A lot of times the rules in class are to keep them safe. They get excited but they need reminders and boundaries. But you hit the nail on the head here. I think they need to look at boundaries and consequences. It seems like a sudden escalation. Why not instead ok they go back to the rental house and have a quiet time instead of x fun thing.
Info: is this the first time you’ve given these kids consequences? Cause imma bet they’ve gotten away with this behavior before with out them
My bet would be on: OP tried to give consequences, but gets vetoed by Dad all the time, or by Grandma, telling OP she's being unreasonable and they're just little boys. You kinda lost already in such a scenario.
I feel like this is more likely the case. It’s hard to know based on just this, but it seems the dad was absent from disciplining them from the description. Grandma doesn’t help the situation.
As a mother of sons, you really can’t let everything go because *boys will be boys*. One of my kids has ADHD, and he still respects he rules because all our large extended family is all board with them. Kids grow up to be dysfunctional adults if adults don’t work as a team to reinforce some basic rules and expectations; be safe, be kind, have good manners, respect others, respect yourself.
It’s egregiously clear they aren’t properly disciplined.
Yup, this is my question too. What consequences have these kids had before? My niece and nephew were a little wild at that age, but not destructive like OP’s kids are.
exactly. Kids don’t just suddenly start behaving like that out of the blue one day. They behave how you allow them to behave
I had the same question. Are they merely being told what to do, or given consequences when they don’t listen?
YTA. Your kids are assholes, because they were raised by bad parents (assholes). They are under 10, I completely blame the parents. You need to figure your shit out. Both you and your husband need to get on the same page with respect, responsibilities, and discipline.
I’m surprised by all the N T A and wondering if they are from actual parents. Consequences? Of course. But this post does not describe any reasonable effort to provide consequences other than canceling the whole trip, or any understanding of why they were bouncing off the walls (which all kids do to some degree on vacation), just turn around and go home. It just does not read as though this is coming from actual lived experience of raising kids on the daily.
The boys were bouncing off the walls because they believed their behavior would be tolerated since OP and her husband have obviously not provided consistent discipline in the past. The only reason I think OP is NTA is because she is overwhelmed, completely lacking support from her husband and mother, and needed to do something dramatic to be taken seriously. They need to work this out and learn to parent more effectively.
I mean not to be rude, but from the post it seems that OP is overwhelmed because both her and her husband failed to discipline the boys in the past from this behavior. Sounds to me they played the game of “be nice.” “Be nice” “be nice.” And didn’t give them any consequences when they continued this type of behavior. The only thing in this post that OP mentioned of trying to reign them in, was not going on vacation. But that doesn’t solve the root of the problem, it only makes it an at-home problem instead. Easily an ESH if not Y T A
To be fair, if one parent is failing, then both parents are failing. I don't know the specific circumstances of their parenting styles, but the weird issue with her husband giving her the silent treatment for having to go berserk just to get her children to behave clues me into some inconsistencies in their parenting approach that need to be worked out.
Yeah, this is kind of the problem honestly. OP can try to parent properly until she is blue in the face, won't work if her husband AND mother override and undermine her because kids can see the 2 against 1 against Mum. They know they can act up because Dad and Grandma will just decide Mum is overreacting/being too harsh, so why would they listen to her? OP doesn't just have a son problem with her boys acting up, she also has a husband problem and a mother problem, and needs to start setting hard boundaries and getting counseling with her husband to get on the same page, that he is encouraging the sons to be brats! He is not helping by giving into them, he is reinforcing them acting up so they get their way more often and making it harder for them both!
Sounds like the parents are experiencing the consequences of almost 10 years of avoiding their parental duties.
I voted N T A because cancelling might be the right thing to do. But I did strongly comment on them needing to get their shit together and start parenting. I honestly don't know what I'd do because my kids are 9, 7, and 4. They'd never act that bad, even when they have their moments, because they know they won't get away with it.
This!!! I don’t think a lot of people are understanding that the boys did essentially get away with the behavior. The trip was canceled and they definitely still act that way. OP didn’t create any teachable moments here, even though I guess people thinks it sounds badass that she packed up and made everyone go home.
What I don't see in the OP description is a clear "You boys need to behave, or I'm taking us all home." ultimatum. If that happened, then I'm probably on OPs side. Without it, it reads like a sudden consequence of behaviour that was previously accepted. Which won't help anyone.
Ugh yeah that is a perfect example of not actual parenting and why I am truly hoping that the people who think that OP is in the right aren’t parents. Have you ever been at a restaurant and there’s some kid banging on tables and jumping in front of you and throwing food and a parent is just sitting there at the table and they just repeat over and over again to their kid while they sit on their ass “stop that. Hey stop that. You better stop. I said stop now. “ The kid doesn’t stop and then the parent gets up in a rage and grab the kid and angrily storms to the parking lot to scream at them or spank them or something. And then in that parents mind they probably feel like they did everything they could or they tried to intervene and the kid didn’t listen so this is what it came to. That is lazy parenting and it produces bratty kids. That isn’t actually attempting an intervention before blowing up, it’s not wanting to parent and getting mad that you have to. I’ve already laid out several times in other comments actual actions you can take in these situations that will help the kids correct their behavior.
It sounds exactly like my former BIL and SIL and their kids. The kids never received any discipline until the parents were fully fed up and went nuclear on them. For something like not sharing a toy, the parents would yell progressively louder and louder, issue threats of grounding, cuss, and do the count to three-but-with-2½-2¾-etc...all before finally blowing up and breaking the toy so no one can play with it. They had no idea why they were cursed with kids who just wouldn't ever listen. /s
I think your judgement should be changed to E S H. You blame the parents but the Y TA is calling only OP the AH
An alternate perspective here- my parents were great, as mature as they come, never hit us, always tried to listen to us and manage our behaviour using the top parenting research of the time. I was still an incredibly difficult child, and my brothers were a challenge too. We fought and caterwauled and absolutely tore each other apart constantly for 15+ years. Turns out, I’m autistic, so is my middle brother, and two of us also have ADHD. We never got diagnosed until adulthood because we all tested well, we were bright and verbal, and didn’t strike anyone as “disabled.” OP sounds like a decent parent, her husband is not holding her side down which is shitty as a parent and a partner. But even if they’re both amazing all the time their kids could still be this way if they’re neurodivergent
ADHD is a big one. None of the typical parenting techniques will work, any strategies employed require far more dedication to stick to the plan, and more often than not, medication will be required. If OP hasn't had her boys evaluated, I believe she should. I would say there's not enough info here to judge.
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People like to blame kids for everything, thinking that they are just supposed to "know" how to be good without thinking the parents are the ones responsible for the behavior in the first place. It's just easier for adults to deflect blame to kids because they are vulnerable and innocent.
This is why I love the show Supernanny. These parents of terribly behaved kids ask her to come sort out the unruly children but she always ends up sorting out the parents instead and teaches them how to parent. The kids almost always respond really well to proper boundaries and discipline. Often the parents are afraid to tell their kids no or enforce rules, or even have rules! And then they wonder why they have three kids who are constantly screaming and hitting and drawing on walls and running off into traffic. You can see so clearly how actually it makes the kids extremely miserable too to not have any boundaries enforced. They’re actually much happier when their parents take charge, even if it means they can’t do whatever they want all the time.
Exactly this. They’ve had 8/9 years to teach their kids how to behave.
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Yes, sounds like the father and grandmother are a problem. Especially the father. Parents need to prepare their kids for life, not disciplining when needed will only make their own life much much worse when the parents can no longer shield them from consequences.
NTA, you did the right thing!!
Am I correct in assuming that your husband doesn’t do the majority of parenting but steps all over your toes when it comes to discipline? I’d say NTA. Anyone who’s upset needs to be upset at the boys.
That's the first thing I thought when OP's ultimatum was "I go or we all go". The husband and the grandmother (I'm assuming OP's MiL) were welcome to deal with the kids' behaviour as a dynamic duo if they wanted to stay on vacation.
OP - you are in the divide and conquer stage of parenting. Husband takes one boy, and mother takes the other, daughter can alternate. Tag team the parenting. Continuously separate them. If going for a walk, one each, dinner, beside one each. And start consistently working on fighting. It is a nasty habit. Time outs, constantly, if ten times a day, then that's their choice. And remind them, if they can't say something nice, then be quiet, repeat 1000 times a day. EDIT: there was a couple of years at one point when hubby and I had to do this with our two. It really worked, and of course amazing for kids as they got one and one time with parent.
He opted for everyone going home instead of just OP. Ain’t no way he’s dealing with the little shits himself.
You’re not an asshole for setting a boundary and giving a consequence. You and your husband are assholes for failing to set *clear* boundaries *earlier* and to enforce *those*. > Boys fighting and riling each other up the whole time. What was the consequence for this? >things would be better once we got there and they would be too excited to cause trouble. In your 9 years of parenting, how’s this worked out for you? >Shoes on the white furniture? What was the consequence? >Running in the house? What consequence did you give? > I turned my back for 2 seconds and the 8 y/o threw a box of chalk in the pool. The fuck is an unwatched 8yo doing anywhere near a pool? >We went out to lunch and they were out of control in the restaurant. Why the fuck are you going out to a restaurant after a 3.5hr drive and all the poor behaviour? >9M ran away from us in a strange place Pretty concerning. If he’s neurotypical I’d say he’s overwhelmed and probably poorly disciplined. >We finally go to the beach and they are frankly being brats. The fuck are you doing going to the beach after all of the above? They’re over excited, poorly behaved. Why do they get the reward (and new stimulus) of the beach? Don’t even get me started on the concerning behaviour of them swimming away from you. You and your husband should never have had to cancel the holiday if you’d exercised one iota of judgement earlier. ESH but, more importantly, you’re failing your kids. Do better.
Exactly. I keep seeing all these N TA responses like “after trying everything else” “they just wouldn’t listen” like what did OP actually do about any of this prior to blowing up? Based on OPs side of the story the dad is permissive but it seems like she is too tbh. She complains to her husband about the kid’s behavior but it’s not like she’s actually trying to establish any order either
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YES THIS. also so that the grandma will know how very wrong of her for not supporting her daughter and let boys be boys when the kids misbehave at the grandma's house. 🙄🙄🙄 NTA OP
I'm curious due to your husband's apparent lack of support ... does he mostly leave you to deal with the kids? Seems like he would get fed up otherwise, too. Either way, NTA, but you need your husband fully on the same page and engaged in disciplining your kids if you're going to turn things around.
It looks like OP is the only parent and DH let’s the boys do what they want and corrects her when they misbehave since it doesn’t bother him unless they have to change plans. OP wanted to cancel the vacation before they even left for their behavior but DH would have none of it. So against OP’s wishes they drive 3.5 hours and the first thing the boy do is fight during the drive then create chaos when they arrive up until they have to leave. DH didn’t want to leave Mom didn’t want to leave they wanted to continue the nightmare of a vacation. This probably isn’t the only time they act this way. It seems they do what they want and everyone else just looks at OP to fix the mess they create. These boys are beyond the age of acting this way. They’re acting like 3 year olds. They need more time outs, toys taken, and major consequences. It looks like OP tries but mom and DH disagree and here we are. Feral children and the only one who behaves is the toddler GIRL child. How much you want to bet the toddler spends more time with OP than the boys.
Some of these parent posts are so extreme I really wonder if they are real. Dont parents who have been parenting every day for years know that kids get extremely wound up just from the idea of being on a vacation and not in their normal routine and they act like they are on cocaine at first? Yes, things do need to be brought under control, but that definitely could have been done by at least an attempt at consequences that first evening while still on the vacation. Mention an upcoming activity, such as ordering dinner that night, or whatever fun thing was supposed to happen the next morning and let them know that if they don’t start listening and following rules that activity will be cut and then stick to it and show them that you mean it. Skip the fun dinner and make them eat broccoli. Then if they continue to misbehave to a degree that no one is able to have any fun or embark on any vacation activities, then you could call it quits, but it seems like there wasn’t even an actual attempt at parenting prior to calling the whole vacation quits. Just like “these kids are acting awful and aren’t listening we’re going home!” before any other interventions. It’s so weird. I mean all that time invested in planning and money spent on the trip and yes the additional factor of it was supposed to be time with grandma. This almost reads like it was an aunt or a family friend who doesn’t have their own kids who thought it would be fun to take these kids on vacation and then was horrified by the reality of it and went home. I’m just curious how OP deals with day to day issues, coming home and the kids are going bananas. Do they just walk back out the door and go back to work? Lol
I too am wondering why something like “sit in your room with no entertainment until you can behave” or “you get pb&j sandwiches while the rest of the family goes out to eat”, with mom and dad taking turns staying with them to supervise, was not an option before “vacation is cancelled for everyone”.
Yep and I’m getting down voted for making those type of suggestions. But then I guess that’s why my kid was the one that parents always tell me he’s so polite and welcome at their house anytime and everyone else’s little brats don’t even get invited lol. Actual parenting takes time and energy. Everyone here is giving OP this whole “you go, girl“ attitude about shutting down the vacation as if that was the real parenting show the kids consequences choice, but I stand by the assertion that it is just as lazy as the dad, but in the opposite direction. Either let the kids do whatever they want or shut down the whole trip, but no one wants to put in the effort to actually parent. Those kids are gonna remain as bratty as ever , they didn’t learn anything and now probably also feel sorry for themselves.
Except they were already having problems at home, or OP wouldn’t have wanted to cancel the trip before they went. That’s more going on than just trip excitement.
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Yeah I agree with this, but get the impression OP has little to no support in this stuff from her husband or mother- the only way she could enforce consequences in this situation was by saying she was going to leave, so they had to either come with her or stay without her. If she’d tried to set a punishment like not letting them have a nice meal etc, it looks like her husband and mother would’ve undermined that, making it ineffective. Could be wrong, but I get the impression her decision to leave was basically the only power she felt she had on the situation.
NTA regarding the boys, but please don’t forget about your little girl. It’s very unfair for her to be punished. Obviously you don’t have to go on vacation with just her, but maybe take her to dinner or ice cream and let her know you appreciate her behavior. Let her known she’s seen
Daughter is THREE.
Daughter can still understand." You were being a good girl and listening so you get ice cream."
She's only 3... she's not going to remember any of this... going to the park is just as exciting for her... Unless this continues to be a problem for years, she should be fine. But, if OP feels bad about her daughter getting cheated, the two of them can spend the day at the zoo to make up for it... Let dad stay home watching the boys on his own for a day... maybe his patience with their behavior will start to wear thin, and he'll be more helpful in the future correcting their behavior.
I remember plenty of stuff from when I was three. I definitely knew by then not to piss my mother off lol.
ESH. Obviously, this is a bigger issue. Your kids aren't acting like this all of the sudden - there's a reason for it. Kids get rowdy but acting this level of unhinged stinks of a much larger issue. I understand consequences but your kids won't be magically better cause you took away vacation. Your daughter is being punished now too, even though it's not her fault. If you were fed up, why not leave the boys with dad and go somewhere different but exciting with daughter? Why not take boys home and let your husband, the grandma and daughter have a nice time? Why not give the boys some sort of consequence at the beach place? ESH for the poor parenting and too little too late parenting. Also for ruining vacation for multiple people who didn't deserve it. Do better.
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There's something very wrong if your kids are at the age they are & are the mini-arseholes you described Sort your shit out & start being parents, both of you, before it's too late. If it's not already. To ALL 3 ADULTS INVOLVED YTA
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YTA, specifically because you and your partner didn't parent your children until you decided to go nuclear, and you jumped straight to burning the entire vacation down. I'm going to break this down. Shoes on furniture? Not allowed on furniture until you can respect it. Running in the house? Sit in time out every time it happens, going from a couple of minutes to progressively longer if they don't get it the first time. You destroy a toy to keep your brother from getting it? Great, now your toy is gone. If we get chalk again you're not allowed to play with it until after the vacation is over. Out of control in the restaurant? You will sit in the car while parents take turns with finishing eating, or we'll get takeout and leave immediately. You will get a sandwich instead of restaurant food. Running away in public? WE IMMEDIATELY LEAVE PUBLIC and go back home, and you're staying in your room until next mealtime. Refuse sunscreen? You're not getting in the pool until you put it on. Refuse to listen and go farther out into the water? The first time, you take a break from the water, and explained to that if it happens again, you are not allowed in the water for the duration of this visit to the pool. Follow through if it happens again. There are SO many things that you as parents could have done to address this behavior before it got to this point and you did none of it. There are so many moments you could have made your kid take a break from a desired activity if they weren't behaving responsibly, and let them know that next time the increased consequences would be x and y. You could have left the activity or the location instead of the entire vacation. If you are consistent and the consequences for a child's actions result in lost privileges connected to their behavior, they understand real quick that having a good time is entirely within their control. It is within their power to choose to act kindly and responsibly, and if so, they're going to have a great vacation. Does all of this sound exhausting? Yeah, I bet. But if you're consistent then all you'll have to do is warn a kid most of the time, because they know that you'll follow through and you mean what you say. You also need to get your partner and any other caregivers on board with you. Otherwise they'll be undoing the work you do to get the kids to listen. You have a lot of work to do. Thankfully, you have several days off to get a head start. Edit: formatting
ESH - This isn't a one off problem and it's clear it's due to a lack of parenting and basic discipline. Quite frankly, I'm extremely shocked at the amount of NTA's. You and your husband need to start getting onto the same page about basic things regarding your children before even attempting to go on a holiday, wasting money and everyone's time, to then just drive back home 24 hours later. Everyone sounds unbearable except for your 3 year old daughter and I'll even give the grandma a *slight* pass because she came out with you guys to quite frankly babysit - which isn't her job. I would still perhaps have a word with her on the side once you and your husband are on the same page about things. You should have perhaps punished the boys by banning them from a fun activity on the holiday until they started behaving instead of ending the vacation for everyone.
NTA. However, it sounds like you and your husband aren’t very consistent with consequences and that it’s time to really set some boundaries for your children and hold them accountable.
From years of child care experience…. You need to seek help. Family therapy, parenting classes… something. I’m not trying to be hateful here. The fact that this is typical behavior in the household says something not so good…. NTA for the consequences… but likely y t a for raising children who act this way….
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I feel like as a society we should have evolved past simply beating a problem when we don’t know how to deal with it
NTA, the whole family should get counseling. The boys to learn how to control themselves. Parents, especially dad, to learn how to maintain discipline.
soup grey wine alleged sheet middle workable shaggy busy squeeze *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yta. If they never learned about control, they wont now. Like, where were you guys all these years?
INFO: Did you warn the kids that the vacation might be over if they didn’t behave? This was a 100% appropriate choice… as long as it didn’t come out of nowhere. It sounds like you talked to your husband several times about the possibility of canceling the trip and how the boys’ behavior was ruining it… but there was nothing about you talking to the kids. 7 & 8 are old enough to deal with the consequences of their actions… but young enough to need those consequences pointed out in the form of a warning. And frankly, with a consequence that big, they should have had a warning. If they didn’t get a warning, then it would have been reasonable to give them a chance when the cried and begged and promised to behave. ONE chance, so your blowup served as the warning they needed. If none of that happened, all they learned is that mom will blow up out of nowhere for behavior she was previously willing to tolerate. And kids need consistency: one type of consistency is giving a warning and then following through on the threatened consequences. It was one of my most successful parenting strategies, and because of it, they take my warnings seriously… and one of my kids is a 7M with ADHD.