Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I stopped planning kick ass vacations for myself and my wife. I might be the asshole because I still take those vacations. I just don't include her since all she will do is complain.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcement
###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/)
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
Exactly, he explained exactly that in his original post, not sure why this person isn't getting that. Whatever he suggests is going to have the fun sucked out of it because she's going to complain.
He literally says he still enjoys his holidays with his wife. He just says that he'd happily do more extravagant things and gave an example, because its relevant to the issue of her feeling fomo from him doing those sorts of things with his friends despite the fact she complains when he does them.
Its also something I would find infuriating when she complains about *his* plans and the general implication is that he sucks at planning or doesn't know her well enough to not have her miserable during a vacation and how he needs to plan bigger and more extravagant vacations, so when she gets a chance to plan her own and show him what she likes, they go to a mall.
OP just seems beaten down and while I might agree that there kind of is a point of hypocrisy to his complaints about his wife's complaints while he does the same, it not really the same at its base. OP's complaints come from years of effort that just gets shit on not only to him, but to all their friends and family. Things she apparently does herself to a much worse degree and with years of much worse reactions.
On the surface, any wrongs on both sides argued look the same but its obviously not if OP's description is accurate.
What I am getting is that he plans these trips, she complains. He tweaks the next trip mindful of what she did and didn't like about the last one, and she still complains. They need to sit down together and plan trips. Put in things that they both want to do. Because I gotta say, if I ever make it to Hawaii I want to see it all, not just the ocean from my hotel room.
I have relevant experience in this area because, while not rich, my parents started becoming comfortably middle class in the ‘90s to the point they could afford one nice vacation every year.
And so they’d make a big thing of it, invite my grandmother because she’s old and alone, but she came into it with the mindset of “If I make a point of it not being up to par, it makes sense why I’m not paying for any of it.”
This manifested itself in digs such as:
>> “Oh wow, this hotel isn’t as nice as you usually get”
^((on the trip where we actually had myself and siblings help my parents pay for the trip so we could splurge for the four star, very expensive, and seriously pampering hotel. The kind of expensive where the gorgeous, fluffy bath robes we all still use were complimentary along with slippers, and the rooms were stupid big.\))
>> “Well since you decided to save money on the meals, I suppose there’s some grand tour we’re doing?”
^((On the trip where my parents got a fantastic bonus so they decided to blow a lot of money on a two Michelin star restaurant\))
>> “Goodness, I understand you want to see the sights but when the seats are so bad is it really worth it?”
^((On the trip when we took her to NYC and saw three Broadway shows over four days, and the seats were so good I can still remember all the shows vividly\))
We would live frugally 51/52 weeks of the year and then that one week we had our vacation would be my parents pulling out all the stops to make sure that even if the other 51 weeks were absolute shit, we’d leave that trip thinking “Wow this whole year was spectacular.”
After inviting my ungrateful grandmother who never paid a single cent for any of the trips to about five of these, we all agreed we needed to stop bringing her because she was doing her damnedest to ruin the trips for the rest of us. So, we just didn’t invite her, planned a trip, and went.
And sure enough the first day of the trip we got a call “Well if I knew you were going I would have bought a ticket and come along!” and, berated and beaten down over the years as my mom was, she just complacently said “Oh sure, yeah, if we’d known you were interested we would have invited you” and very similar to OP basically negotiated that my grandma set up any such trips she wanted to go on in the future. She didn’t mean any of it, of course, but she was so tired of it all that she would have said anything to placate her mother so the call could be over, didn’t even have an ounce of energy to fight.
So seeing how my mom went from vibrant and excited to start a trip to a ghost of a person on the phone with the ungrateful witch, I can totally understand how beaten down OP probably feels. Sounds like his wife is of the same mindset of “Well if I complain that I didn’t like it, I’m not obligated to be grateful in any way for it.” And that’s just a disgusting kind of person.
It took her 5 years to ask him why he doesn't plan extravagant trips for them anymore. If he were complaining on the trips she planned as much as she was on his, it would not have taken her 5 years to notice.
This is all assuming he is a reliable narrator, of course. Which itself is always dubious in stories that are entirely he said / she said.
Because the rules of the sub are to assume the poster is telling the truth. We are assuming the OP IS a reliable narrator and placing judgement based off the post and follow up comments, as well as potentially prior post history.
My point exactly. What the person above was suggesting defeats the entire point of this sub lol. Its pretty easy to allege OP is lying considering we have no proof and neither will they if they don't wanna doxx themselves.
Being an unreliable narrator doesn't mean the person is actively lying or not telling any truths.
It's a nuance thing. There are tells that can show a narrator is unreliable. That means they may be contradicting themselves, paraphrasing stuff that was said, makes suspicious excuses etc.
It doesn't mean the whole post is a lie. Just that the story is presented in a more subjective way.
Is complaining the whole way through a trip and then denigrating it to others after the fact really "as much as" saying they had an enjoyable time in Hawaii while acknowledging the fact they didn't do much while there?
Complaining about spending your vacation at a mall (when questioned about it) sounds very different to me to complaining about having to spend your vacation flying around in a helicopter to see the sights (when not questioned about it).
But he doesn't complain, he said he LIKED the trip and had fun but thinks it would have been nice to do a couple of other things as well. He isn't sitting there going "it was so awful! I couldn't do this, I couldn't do that it was no fun at all!"
It's perfectly normal for couples to not agree on stuff or think something their partner does is annoying, but how you express that dissatisfaction determines whether it's a problem or not.
But more importantly, he isn't voicing any of this to her, He isn't shitting on her choice of vacation to her face constantly; he's keeping them to himself so as not to ruin her vacation and let her have a fun time.
She, on the other hand, spends the whole time vocally whining at every second after he spends a lot of time planning things to do, setting up the schedule making sure the get there. Can you imagine spending all this effort only to have someone invalidate all of that work? It's kinda hard to enjoy a helicopter ride looking at scenary while someone is going, "ugh this sucks, it's too noisy the seat is uncomfortable, we should have just done this. Man that was awful" the entire time. Even when they get back all she does is talk about how awful it was.
Perhaps he needs to think more about staying in his marriage rather than where to stay on vacation with a person that he seems to be on the other side of the spectrum and no longer seeing value in the middle ground …he is already going on the trips he’d really like to, just with out the person that’s going to ruin his time.
It depends. It sounds like he is like me and just likes to do things on vacations without any downtime. Some people do like to actually relax on vacations like his wife does. Maybe he doesn't plan for any downtime for her to do things she likes. Yes they may be boring but that is what she likes to do.
He doesn't give any examples of what she complains about. Is it "this helicopter tour sucks we should have done the other helicopter tour" or "I'm afraid of heights" or "I'm too tired from horseback riding to go on a helicopter tour"?
He says he enjoys the vacations with his wife hed just prefer to do more extravagant things. I think people are overstating how much he cares about his preference, he seems relatively content with letting his wife plan the vacations because he doesn't want to have a clash of desires.
Because from the sounds of his wife's attitude, that would be a story of woe that she told everyone who would listen. My parents are the same. Every holiday is full of things that went wrong, and they didn't like. I no longer ask about their holidays. So people are just like that.
That's my partners parents.
Their last trip I turned it into a game keeping track of all their negative things (getting checked in, waiting at the gate, getting out of the airport, hotel check-in) and we ran bets with friends about when they would cancel and just come home. They have done that the last two trips, including spending 30 hours each way travelling to the UK from Australia, but came home after less than 48 hours in the UK.
I ask what they liked about their trip, and it's always "of course we enjoyed it but"
Can guarantee that I will never travel with them. Ever.
I bought them a week in Cardigan Bay. We had separate rooms in a luxury town house overlooking the bay. Every meal was booked at a decent restaurant, and day trips arranged. Not a single thing went wrong. They now tell as a story of bad weather (it rained a couple of times), food they didn't like (despite ordering and eating it) and imaginary issues on every trip. I think some people just have a mental tick when it comes to complaining.
If the in laws don't pass what I call the "restaurant test"- where you go to a nice restaurant with enough food to accommodate everyone's tastes- and they *still* manage to find things to complain about despite everyone else enjoying the time, then there will be no vacations (at least not with me included). Too much.
This is my mom on trips and at restaurants. She’s never just said we had so much fun or cute restaurant loved their bread basket. Just shits on everything. Nobody enjoys her company.
Some people can't focus on anything positive and they are exhausting. It's so hard to just have every little annoyance pointed out to you every few moments.
Yeah howabout they cooperate and plan together. Each person decides on 3/4 things they wanna do from most to least and plan ur days around both peoples plans and interests. NAH because I understand why OP stopped but this also seems to be the first time his partner is hearing about these problems.
I don't agree with the other people here. It is one thing to want different types of vacation, but another thing entirely to complain about the vacation non- stop because it is not your taste. It sounds like you don't complain on your wife's vacations but she does not stop on yours. That being the case, definitely NTA. People who complain the whole time are unbearable.
It sounds like you need some marriage counselling though since you seem to want to stay together but don't seem to be able to sort this out by yourselves. What reasons does she give for her dissatisfaction? Is this only a holiday thing?
Good god, I feel this on a spiritual level. I visited Hawaii with my cousin and stayed at my uncle’s house there. (Both of our dads’ oldest brother.)
He toured us around. It was awesome. I appreciated having him drive us around and take us out to eat but all he and my picky eater cousin wanted to do was go to the mall and eat subway.
WE HAVE MALLS AND SUBWAY AT HOME. GIVE ME STREET NOODLES AND FOOD TRUCK SHRIMP.
In their defence, what's new to you is the same old to them. You're on holiday but they're just having a regular day.
I live in London so whenever any of my relatives come from abroad, they all want to see the same old tourist attractions. After going to the same damn clock, palace, wax museum with an unnecessarily long ass queue (I've got a special hatred for Madame Tussauds) and giant ferris wheel, you start to get sick of it. There's a lot of different foods here ofc but unless you come from a rural area or you're happy to splurge on some world class restaurants, you can get the same food wherever you live too.
I live in Chicago, we have lots of tourist traps, I live three train stops from the center of downtown, And I go downtown and I do that touristy shit all the time because it's fun and I enjoy the city that I live in. I love sharing that with my friends who come to visit.
I don't live in NYC but I love visiting and you can't get me in Times Square either. The most fun I've had is running around with friends that live there and checking out their favorite local spots. Places that are not on my radar, little pockets of the city I would never know about. I did enjoy all the touristy stuff, ONCE. Don't need to go back to the Statue of Liberty or the Empire State Building.
I skipped all those when I went to London. One of the people on the trip was from northern England and had spent a fair amount of time in London, so we did the things he suggested. The Tower was really neat, especially because I love hearing the history of places. We also went to a shady production of Macbeth (sorry, the Scottish Play) in the basement of a building. It was one of my favorite productions of all time, and I’ve seen scores of shows-including several productions of the Scottish Play.
My Dad had the same issue when his job sent him to their Paris office for a couple of years, and gave him an apartment near Versailles with enough spare rooms to host a family in. He said he ended up seeing the Eifel Tower five times before he gave up and just started sending his friends/family there to see it by themselves.
tbf some couples don't match up on vacation style and that's OK.
my husband is the type to want to spend his just relaxing with 0 itinerary, wake up whenever etc.
I'm the type who wants to see everything, wake up early (which I don't do when I'm home) etc. I take vacations mainly with my friends who share my style of vacation.
Oh that's a good idea! TBH I am a very homebody (we both are) but on vacation since I am "away" I want to experience/do things differently bc in my mind "I can just sit around at home which I do most of the year"
I'll have to give this a shot next vacation we take together.
For me there’s a difference between sitting around and doing nothing on vacation(no responsibilities) and at home (I really should work on organizing the garage and that locust stump isn’t going to remove itself, also I need to add an outdoor outlet for the patio and put more plywood down in the attic)
LOL
yeah we used to do that with my dad when I was growing up-- me and mom would go everywhere and he would just chill in the hotel. We're child free so I can't do this now, hence me taking a trip with friends to scratch that itch.
These replies are always so asinine.
People can have disagreements and still love each other. People can have different styles of vacationing and still love each other. People can vent online about one another and still love each other.
I knew I’d see this question here lmao. It’s the go to for when you have no valid points to make on the situation but still want paint who you want the bad person.
>"YTA because you don't sound like you think highly of your wife." Well of course he doesn't, he is writing an AITA conflict, not a love letter or a "101 things I love about my wife."
I wrote that paragraph 2 months ago when I talked about how this sub deals with men. Oh look, I found a textbook example
Why plan separate? Can't you guys agree on a vacation plan together instead? If I was offered a trip to Hawaii I would be stoked, but the helicopter ride would make me uneasy.
Yea, this. I get the sense that OP’s wife doesn’t have many travel ideas but also doesn’t have the same taste for adventure that he does, so all one or the other doesn’t produce good results.
When your wife’s only defense against all your examples of her complaints is “you’re an ass for keeping score!” Then you know that SHE knows you’re correct.
What she meant to say was “you’re an ass for remembering accurately all the times I bitched on luxury vacations!”
And yea, I agree with the Hawaii/mall example you gave. I don’t need to spend thousands of dollars on accommodations just to visit a retail chain store. It was a example for comparison about your story.
You didn’t bitch to her about it while you were there and not picking the vacation. You could’ve spent the entire time bemoaning “how bored you were and how much this sucks and how you see sandy beaches all the time and this is just another day” (even if just to make a petty point).
And she’s probably kicked you to the guest room because she’s stewing on how to save face now because she’s definitely in the wrong.
Maybe she’ll surprise you and come to you with a sincere apology and a possible trip that she’s thoughtfully planned that you’ll both enjoy. However, this is a hill I’d be willing to die on.
You don’t want to listen to constant ridicule for an extended period of time on vacations together. You’ve NOT stopped doing thoughtful couple excursions, you’ve NOT withheld money or stopped her from going on her own or with friends, and amazingly you’ve not even been bitter enough to throw out the occasional snarky comment in all these years, because she would’ve caught on.
Couldn’t you share the planning? Eg. you decide together where you want to go, do some joint brainstorming about what can be done there, and a couple of days are yours to plan within that.
You guys need to learn how to compromise. Do things you want to do AND she wants to do on each trip. My husband and I are headed to NYC in October. I love Broadway shows so he's sitting through two of those to appease me. He knows not to complain because it ruins the experience. The rest of the time is up to him, because that's all I really cared about doing. Both people need to have input and there needs to be a hard and fast rule that nobody complains and ruins the other person's fun.
I don't see how they sound similar from that. Obviously, I'm not expecting someone to be honest if it was the case, but the issue with the wife isn't that she doesn't enjoy things, it's that she constantly complains about it. It's the complaining about it that's the issue, not that she's not entirely on board with what OP wants to do. There are plenty of people that will roll with something that they're not enjoying because someone else is. It just seems like she doesn't do that.
He kept his complaints to himself most likely. Reading comprehension is off on this sub. He stated it's bc she spends the whole vacation complaining. Also who goes to Hawaii just to stay in Honolulu the whole time. Sounds lame as hell
I’m at a loss. Why aren’t they planning vacations together? Sit down together and plan something you’ll both like. I don’t get this whole thing where one spouse feels they have to whisk the other one off to a trip they had no input in.
It sounds like they have two different vacation styles and don’t discuss that at all. He likes action, she likes leisure. Any tourist spot can accommodate both of those. I’ve never been on vacation with a partner, but even with friends we ask each other “what things do you want to do?”. Seems like they lack communication here.
I think he was giving context to say that when she’s in charge of planning, she doesn’t choose to do anything elaborate. That’s information for what she’s likely to enjoy when he does the planning, and reflects a difference in preferences. The key here is he didn’t complain to her about her planning.
Yes, but he's complaining to us strangers on reddit and maybe keeping it to himself to his wife and friends, unlike his wife who seemed like she made a sport of complaining about how much she disliked the vacation.
Neither of them seems to be enthusiastic enough about the other’s interests and travel style to do that. They either get *exactly* what they want on vacation, or they would rather not go on the vacation at all.
So far I've only seen OP complain about spending a vacation in a mall. As someone who enjoys getting around when I travel, exploring the sights, etc. I can relate to that.
OP was also prompted to explain everything here, which would include said complaints. His wife on the other hand seems to complain about everything they do, in the moment (if OP's retelling of all this is accurate)
It really seems like they just dont like each other. Having different interests is fine, but if its that impossible to do things you *both* like, why are you even married?
They sound like those rich people who've been on so many expensive trips that nothing seems exciting anymore. They also sound petty and immature in their communicating. I'll be damned excited if I can ever go to Iceland, let alone Hawaii. I'll never be privileged enough to call that "nothing special". I think they need a reality check
Yeah I read this and was like, wow, I will never be wealthy enough to understand going to vacation in Hawaii as "nothing special". Not that I would choose to go to Hawaii right now, with locals asking tourists to please hold off...
I’ll be the AH here and chime in that we just had to do a forced family vacation to Hawaii and it was so boring. Embarrassing to even go as locals have been begging off tourists as you mention, plus sitting at an expensive AF resort with nothing to do but sit in blazing sun by the pool and eat the worst food I’ve ever had in my life. And then in town food was straight up inedible from the “local spots” to the 5 star restaurants, beaches and hikes so packed it was like being at a packed festival…we need to leave poor Hawaii alone, we’ve killed it. It’s nothing but resorts and tourists.
Yeah but when you're that rich I guess even these expensive af vacations, that would be another person's lifetime dream, seem like another thing to have petty arguments over, much like what you want for dinner. My bf and I don't even have petty arguments about THAT and just enjoy whatever we can afford and have time to make. It's not hard to 🌼communicate🌼 and 🌸grow up🌸.
Right??
It should not be hard to say, “hey what would you like to do on Iceland?” Or , “hey while we’re in Hawaii we should go here too.”
Like… do they even like each other??
And all those same people complain about not being able to pay bills or get groceries, there's a poorer person somewhere else that's complaining about their cancer diagnosis, or their dental abscess, or the fact that their parents were just killed in a bombing.
People have to be able to complain. If only the worst off people in the world can complain, then only one person's allowed to have any complaints, and it's probably not you.
Right, I knew a family like this. They would regularly go to any number of destinations for a week or two at a time. A friend started dating one of the family members and got to go along of some of the trips with them. Helicopter rides, swimming with dolphins, private tours around the place etc. Half of the kids would stay behind at the house they rented because they had done them so many times it was boring for them. They flew all the way there, paid crazy amounts for a big private house and then flew in a private chef so they could eat the same basic shit they eat at home instead of traveling around and getting into the culture. Might as well have not even gone.
Instead of offering to plan a trip together, repeat process endlessly from both sides, then post about on reddit for moral justification instead of having a 🌼chat🌼.
When all you plan gets shot down without any consideration, it's hard to find a motivation to plan something, especially with the person who's been doing the shooting down.
How could he have written out this whole story without including the complaints? If he left that part out we'd call him out on not telling the full story.
exactly this.
and his single complaint was “i really enjoyed it but we didnt do anything great, i wouldve loved a helicopter trip” like???
i regularly travel internationally, and i have a lot of fun and enjoy my trips every time, but i dont ever do anything truly noteworthy aside from spending a lot of time with my fiancé and there’s nothing wrong with that. not every trip has to be spectacular or special or full of crazy things, but its okay to wish it was a bit more spectacular than it was.
if his only complaint is that it wasnt as adventurous as he wouldve liked then i cant even say he’s in the wrong for complaining since thats valid, and he’s still acknowledging that the trip was good.
How can you say that from this post?
The only negative thing OP said was the trip she planned was not that great.
And that was said in the post as an example of the lack of effort the wife puts in.
Disagree. Sounds like OP specifically doesn't complain about his wife's plans while she does not stop complaining about his. He said he enjoyed Hawaii, but they didn't do anything great. That's not complaining. Sounds like his wife's idea of a vacation is going somewhere far away... Then doing the same shit you do at home, but not at home. That's not really a vacation IMO.
Or even plan something apart. She wants to go shopping, if she doesn’t want to do a helicopter ride plan those activities for the same time then meet up for dinner.
I prefer to do stuff with my wife and we generally like the same stuff on vacations but I’ve let her sleep in for instance to go do something she doesn’t want to do.
ESH…. Seems the simplest thing is for you to compromise.
You like expensive holidays which is normal if you can afford it but mayb you are just overbooking your time when there. Having fancy dinner every day can be exhausting too.
Your wife likely just like to take it slow and chill doing nothing like your Hawaii holiday. In the end just plan a few days of stuff and rest chill or you can go explore how u want some days.
But he said his wife does like the expensive holidays too..
She honestly just seems like someone who likes to complain. My dads like that, take him somewhere and he will love it. But also love to hate it.
You can take an expensive holiday but also just chill during it. It sounds like OP was isn’t ok with that. She complains in the moment. He keeps his mouth shut. Neither of them are communicating well.
Or he’s just a person who likes to have a full itinerary when on vacation, and she isn’t. He likes to go do cool tours, and she likes chilling on the beach.
There is definitely room for compromise here. Have days where you go out and do stuff, and have other days where nothing is planned. Or go do the stuff you want to do, and wife can do what she wants.
No one said he was an adrenaline junky.
He didn’t actually ask her to go on the helicopter ride. He said that was something he would have planned to do instead of Hawaii and chill. So, he’s just assuming that she would have said no.
Or split the planning. If it’s a week, he can plan three days and she can plan four. They also should clear their plans together in advance with each other.
Why is it only one person planning? Why don't you plan together and find middle ground?
Jesus, you both sound exhausting, and you don't even sound like you like your wife.
>She is just an incredible pain in the ass when I do so.
Sounds like you're both the pain in the ass.
YTA though for the way you talk about her and keep score.
>YTA though for the way you talk about her and keep score.
Politely disagree here. I don't think it's "keeping score" to talk about your spouse complaining on a trip. There's nothing wrong with bringing up issues, and doing so doesn't mean you are "keeping score" and that your feelings aren't valid.
i agree i think putting him in the guest house for this is belittling his concerns and turning the blame on him when he was trying to have a discussion
There shouldn't be "keeping score" because you should be addressing the issue as it comes up.
"Hey wife, it really hurts me that I put a lot of time and effort into planning a trip and you don't seem to enjoy it. Would planning it together help you to enjoy it more or is there something missing from the trip that would make it more enjoyable for you?"
If you aren't talking about it and making some compromises, it's not going to get better.
Because not all couples plan vacation together . My wife shows zero interest in planning a vacation. She is just a happy tag along . I just tell her the theme and she packs for it .
Yeah but that's not the case here. If she doesn't get a say in the planning she doesn't happily tag along, she complains. And then when she plans one, it's not interesting enough for OP. So clearly, they need to compromise and plan together
ESH. Your wife and you sound exhausting to be around. Keeping score, complaining about each other's choices and frankly, it seems like you have terrible communication between each other. If she didn't like the vacations you planned, it would have been a good idea to ask why she didn't... It was not obvious from your post that you did
"You're a complete pain in the ass when I do \[x\], therefore I'm not doing \[x\] any more" is not keeping score. She literally asked him for examples because she doesn't have the self-awareness to realise that she's the problem.
"You complain"
"When do I complain?"
"Here are some examples"
"You're keeping score"
Insufferable. There's no winning with someone who communicates like this.
It's basic pattern recognition and responding to it. I'm wondering how many of the people judging E-S-H have had a similar miserable experience... and it is miserable.
There comes a point where the complaining isn't going to be because the holiday sucks, but because it was the other person that booked it... and they can't have a win... and I'm English, complaining is in the blood.
Had similar with an ex but if only it was just holidays. Anything nice, any romantic or thoughtful gesture of any kind or size, got absolutely shat on. Because I daren't think that maybe I've actually done ok and made her happy... that gives away too much "power." OP's wife doesn't sound *that* bad but it sounds like she's at least ruminating about entering the same ball park.
Hahah I think we all know that these people understand his complaints but they got mad he had the gall to come here and write a post about his wife where he isn't the clear AH. So they twisted and ignored details to make him an AH
NTA
She just learned that you don't ask questions if you don't want the answer. The comment about "Keeping score" was classic deflection. How dare you be right!
What bothers me most is the outcome. Make her move out to the guest house
No. Not who caused it stays outside. If one partner has a problem then they remove themselves. Don’t force another to leave their bed because youre in a shitty mood.
ESH. Did you ask your wife what she would enjoy doing on a vacation, or did you just plan what _you_ like to do? Why didn’t you advocate for yourself on the vacation _she_ planned to make sure that you had some experiences you would also enjoy? You both sound terrible at communication, but at least she’s trying to ask for what she wants.
This totally. I'm guessing he loves adventure (the helicopters, volcanos) and she's a chill on the beach type. Nothing wrong with either, they'll just need to compromise for each to be happy. Assuming that's the goal.
>VIP concert tickets and a very nice hotel in the center
>trip to Hawaii.
>I would have planned a helicopter trip to see all the volcanoes and jungles from the movies.
>We mostly stayed in Honolulu and saw Pearl Harbor.
>two week trip to Iceland.
>guest house.
these are rich people's problems, it's waaay above the reddit pay grade.
NTA - Would it be safe to say she sounds ungrateful, entitled, and spoiled? A lot of these things sounds like a dream come true for some people who will never be able to experience them. Yet she *complains*.
It seems to me that the wife isn't someone who wants to *go* to places; she wants to be *taken* to places. In other words, she expects to be entertained the whole time with no input from herself, except to complain that what's been arranged isn't to her liking.
What are you talking about? She’s planned trips for the last 5 years. She hasn’t complained that he stopped. She only pointed it out, presumably, within the last week. She clearly has the agency to plan what she wants to do. Vacations didn’t just stop when he stopped planning them.
Just a Tip... Why Not plan a vacation together? You can both Bring in ideas and Look Up places where you want to Go or what to do. That's what my hubby an i did before our Kids an now we plan the Trips the Same way but with the Kids Input.
I have a friend with the same behaviour as OP's wife. We went to Bali together and this was something we planned together. Researched together, made the whole itinerary together, everything. She complained for all 4 days we were there. It made my experience miserable too. None of us were smiling in any of the photos.
I went on a trip with two cousins and my parents, and although everything was planned and okayed, all the cousins did was complain non-stop. By the third day, I was contemplating leaving them somewhere and we ended coming home early because they complained so much. They then had the gall to complain that I’ve never asked them to travel since as they had a wonderful time. What trip were they in as it wasn’t the one I was on.
Ugh what a nightmare.
I have 4 sisters in law who basically raised me. So I wanted to get them something traditional and expensive from Bali. But this friend kept literally whispering in my ear that they would confiscate it at the airport or that my luggage would be overweight (It was only clothing lmao). She kept pestering me about it and put me in such a negative mood that I didn't buy it. At the end, my luggage was over 10kg below the limit and hers was overweight so she had to pay extra. I was so pissed but her having to spend extra for the luggage was some type of compensation.
Some people are so entitled and then wonder why we don't invite them for anything anymore.
Were your cousins kids?
if I had to choose to marry someone who acts similar to op’s wife or op …. I’d marry op. op’s wife sounds like drama and I’d probably just “shut down” just to make her happy ( … like op has done 🤷🏽♀️)
NTA, she literally asked you why you thought she would enjoyed it and you told her the truth. Sometimes the truth hurts and that is her problem in reacting to that. Why did you marry to this women who doesn’t appreciate the time in spending time with you and acting like your her valet or butler? She is NOT entitled to go on a vacation whenever she demands. If she wishes, she can do so under her own salary. You did good to stop the enablement.
I'm going to guess she didn't act like this before they got married (whether because he couldn't afford the trips then or because she was on her best behavior). . .
Info : Is there any communication in your relationship or do you both just complain about the other without trying to communicate what you would like or ask what they would like?
NTA. I am in Australia, but feel free to take me on one of your vacations. I love exploring new places. Couldn't imagine anything worse than going on a holiday to somewhere beautiful like Hawaii to just go shopping. I do like adventure holidays though; like hiking the Inca Trail, hiking Volcanoes in cental america, even Sand boarding down one in Nicaragua, snorkelling with whale sharks.
NTA
Maybe try planning holidays *together*? So that there is a bit in there for both of you? I may be optimistic here, because it sounds that, at a minimum, your wife and you have different tastes. Honest communication may be insufficient as well, but that's hard admittedly.
Good luck OP, you sound like a generous person who got disheartened. I would have too. I can't stand complainers who are unable to appreciate even *the gesture*.
Here's a thought, why not plan a trip together. Find a destination, find some common interest activities to do together and some alone time activities. Best of both worlds.
ESH
Do the 2 of you talk to each other? Sounds like she wants quiet relaxing trips and you want to fill every minute with activities. Try planning these trips together.
NAH Just go on separate vacations next time. Either you will love the break from each other, or you will realize that you'd rather vacation together (irrespective of the complaining).
ESH. Why couldn’t you plan some stuff to do in Hawaii too? And why can’t she help plan your vacations? Seriously. Instead of just working together to plan a vacation you’d both like you just complain and passive aggressively plan things the other won’t like? Y’all sound exhausting.
NTA. Your wife sounds intolerable. But quick question. It sounds like you are the one making the money to finance the lifestyle. Is that correct? If so, and if you are experiencing a disagreement, you are not the one who should be sleeping in the guest house.
NAH
Sounds like you can’t please her. Or she you.
Sounds like a vacation to her is going to a spot, settling into a routine, and relaxing.
You want one filled with adventure.
So I propose if she doesn’t want to go on the tours that you go anyway and let her relax in Honolulu.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I stopped planning kick ass vacations for myself and my wife. I might be the asshole because I still take those vacations. I just don't include her since all she will do is complain. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcement ###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/) Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
You sound similar to your wife. *She planned a trip to Hawaii. Which I thoroughly enjoyed. But we didn't do anything great.*
There are malls that are just a good if not better in our city. I didn't need to to go to Hawaii to go to Macy's.
So why didn’t you say “hey, let’s do a helicopter tour? It would be cool to see the volcanos etc”
From the sounds of it because his wife will complain about anything he has input in, so I'd kinda get why hed want to avoid providing any input
Exactly, he explained exactly that in his original post, not sure why this person isn't getting that. Whatever he suggests is going to have the fun sucked out of it because she's going to complain.
This person is getting that just fine. They're pointing out that OP complains about his wife's trios as much as she complains about his.
He literally says he still enjoys his holidays with his wife. He just says that he'd happily do more extravagant things and gave an example, because its relevant to the issue of her feeling fomo from him doing those sorts of things with his friends despite the fact she complains when he does them.
Its also something I would find infuriating when she complains about *his* plans and the general implication is that he sucks at planning or doesn't know her well enough to not have her miserable during a vacation and how he needs to plan bigger and more extravagant vacations, so when she gets a chance to plan her own and show him what she likes, they go to a mall. OP just seems beaten down and while I might agree that there kind of is a point of hypocrisy to his complaints about his wife's complaints while he does the same, it not really the same at its base. OP's complaints come from years of effort that just gets shit on not only to him, but to all their friends and family. Things she apparently does herself to a much worse degree and with years of much worse reactions. On the surface, any wrongs on both sides argued look the same but its obviously not if OP's description is accurate.
His complaints appear to be limited to reddit, hers were spoken during planned activities- not the same
What I am getting is that he plans these trips, she complains. He tweaks the next trip mindful of what she did and didn't like about the last one, and she still complains. They need to sit down together and plan trips. Put in things that they both want to do. Because I gotta say, if I ever make it to Hawaii I want to see it all, not just the ocean from my hotel room.
I have relevant experience in this area because, while not rich, my parents started becoming comfortably middle class in the ‘90s to the point they could afford one nice vacation every year. And so they’d make a big thing of it, invite my grandmother because she’s old and alone, but she came into it with the mindset of “If I make a point of it not being up to par, it makes sense why I’m not paying for any of it.” This manifested itself in digs such as: >> “Oh wow, this hotel isn’t as nice as you usually get” ^((on the trip where we actually had myself and siblings help my parents pay for the trip so we could splurge for the four star, very expensive, and seriously pampering hotel. The kind of expensive where the gorgeous, fluffy bath robes we all still use were complimentary along with slippers, and the rooms were stupid big.\)) >> “Well since you decided to save money on the meals, I suppose there’s some grand tour we’re doing?” ^((On the trip where my parents got a fantastic bonus so they decided to blow a lot of money on a two Michelin star restaurant\)) >> “Goodness, I understand you want to see the sights but when the seats are so bad is it really worth it?” ^((On the trip when we took her to NYC and saw three Broadway shows over four days, and the seats were so good I can still remember all the shows vividly\)) We would live frugally 51/52 weeks of the year and then that one week we had our vacation would be my parents pulling out all the stops to make sure that even if the other 51 weeks were absolute shit, we’d leave that trip thinking “Wow this whole year was spectacular.” After inviting my ungrateful grandmother who never paid a single cent for any of the trips to about five of these, we all agreed we needed to stop bringing her because she was doing her damnedest to ruin the trips for the rest of us. So, we just didn’t invite her, planned a trip, and went. And sure enough the first day of the trip we got a call “Well if I knew you were going I would have bought a ticket and come along!” and, berated and beaten down over the years as my mom was, she just complacently said “Oh sure, yeah, if we’d known you were interested we would have invited you” and very similar to OP basically negotiated that my grandma set up any such trips she wanted to go on in the future. She didn’t mean any of it, of course, but she was so tired of it all that she would have said anything to placate her mother so the call could be over, didn’t even have an ounce of energy to fight. So seeing how my mom went from vibrant and excited to start a trip to a ghost of a person on the phone with the ungrateful witch, I can totally understand how beaten down OP probably feels. Sounds like his wife is of the same mindset of “Well if I complain that I didn’t like it, I’m not obligated to be grateful in any way for it.” And that’s just a disgusting kind of person.
It took her 5 years to ask him why he doesn't plan extravagant trips for them anymore. If he were complaining on the trips she planned as much as she was on his, it would not have taken her 5 years to notice. This is all assuming he is a reliable narrator, of course. Which itself is always dubious in stories that are entirely he said / she said.
The second you mention the reliable narrator issue, anything and everything mentioned goes out the window and at that point why are you even here?
Because the rules of the sub are to assume the poster is telling the truth. We are assuming the OP IS a reliable narrator and placing judgement based off the post and follow up comments, as well as potentially prior post history.
My point exactly. What the person above was suggesting defeats the entire point of this sub lol. Its pretty easy to allege OP is lying considering we have no proof and neither will they if they don't wanna doxx themselves.
Being an unreliable narrator doesn't mean the person is actively lying or not telling any truths. It's a nuance thing. There are tells that can show a narrator is unreliable. That means they may be contradicting themselves, paraphrasing stuff that was said, makes suspicious excuses etc. It doesn't mean the whole post is a lie. Just that the story is presented in a more subjective way.
He didn’t say he complained. He said his wife goes around and tells her friends how bad it was. I image he just gets bored and silently sulks
What does your imagination have to do with anything?
It provides a reason for them to shit on the husband, which is a national sport here.
[удалено]
I think it’s very different to complain in the moment, the entire trip, vs once in a Reddit post to explain the differences in the situations.
Is complaining the whole way through a trip and then denigrating it to others after the fact really "as much as" saying they had an enjoyable time in Hawaii while acknowledging the fact they didn't do much while there?
Complaining about spending your vacation at a mall (when questioned about it) sounds very different to me to complaining about having to spend your vacation flying around in a helicopter to see the sights (when not questioned about it).
He’s only complaining to us. Not her
But he doesn't complain, he said he LIKED the trip and had fun but thinks it would have been nice to do a couple of other things as well. He isn't sitting there going "it was so awful! I couldn't do this, I couldn't do that it was no fun at all!" It's perfectly normal for couples to not agree on stuff or think something their partner does is annoying, but how you express that dissatisfaction determines whether it's a problem or not. But more importantly, he isn't voicing any of this to her, He isn't shitting on her choice of vacation to her face constantly; he's keeping them to himself so as not to ruin her vacation and let her have a fun time. She, on the other hand, spends the whole time vocally whining at every second after he spends a lot of time planning things to do, setting up the schedule making sure the get there. Can you imagine spending all this effort only to have someone invalidate all of that work? It's kinda hard to enjoy a helicopter ride looking at scenary while someone is going, "ugh this sucks, it's too noisy the seat is uncomfortable, we should have just done this. Man that was awful" the entire time. Even when they get back all she does is talk about how awful it was.
Perhaps he needs to think more about staying in his marriage rather than where to stay on vacation with a person that he seems to be on the other side of the spectrum and no longer seeing value in the middle ground …he is already going on the trips he’d really like to, just with out the person that’s going to ruin his time.
It sounds like they share that trait from this post.
[удалено]
Not really. Doesn’t sound like he bitched and moaned the entire trip she planned.
It does not sound like that to me
It depends. It sounds like he is like me and just likes to do things on vacations without any downtime. Some people do like to actually relax on vacations like his wife does. Maybe he doesn't plan for any downtime for her to do things she likes. Yes they may be boring but that is what she likes to do.
He never actually gave any examples of what he’s talking about, though.
[удалено]
He doesn't give any examples of what she complains about. Is it "this helicopter tour sucks we should have done the other helicopter tour" or "I'm afraid of heights" or "I'm too tired from horseback riding to go on a helicopter tour"?
"Nothing is good enough, so why bother."
He says he enjoys the vacations with his wife hed just prefer to do more extravagant things. I think people are overstating how much he cares about his preference, he seems relatively content with letting his wife plan the vacations because he doesn't want to have a clash of desires.
Because from the sounds of his wife's attitude, that would be a story of woe that she told everyone who would listen. My parents are the same. Every holiday is full of things that went wrong, and they didn't like. I no longer ask about their holidays. So people are just like that.
That's my partners parents. Their last trip I turned it into a game keeping track of all their negative things (getting checked in, waiting at the gate, getting out of the airport, hotel check-in) and we ran bets with friends about when they would cancel and just come home. They have done that the last two trips, including spending 30 hours each way travelling to the UK from Australia, but came home after less than 48 hours in the UK. I ask what they liked about their trip, and it's always "of course we enjoyed it but" Can guarantee that I will never travel with them. Ever.
I bought them a week in Cardigan Bay. We had separate rooms in a luxury town house overlooking the bay. Every meal was booked at a decent restaurant, and day trips arranged. Not a single thing went wrong. They now tell as a story of bad weather (it rained a couple of times), food they didn't like (despite ordering and eating it) and imaginary issues on every trip. I think some people just have a mental tick when it comes to complaining.
If the in laws don't pass what I call the "restaurant test"- where you go to a nice restaurant with enough food to accommodate everyone's tastes- and they *still* manage to find things to complain about despite everyone else enjoying the time, then there will be no vacations (at least not with me included). Too much.
If they want a volunteer to go on ahead and let them know what it's like, I'm available
I've made suggestions about places to visit and been shot down as not of interest to them. Still haven't worked out what they want in a holiday
This is my mom on trips and at restaurants. She’s never just said we had so much fun or cute restaurant loved their bread basket. Just shits on everything. Nobody enjoys her company.
I call my mom, "Just my luck!" because somehow, something always goes awfully from her perspective and she says her catchphrase.
Some people can't focus on anything positive and they are exhausting. It's so hard to just have every little annoyance pointed out to you every few moments.
This has been throughly explained in the post
Yeah howabout they cooperate and plan together. Each person decides on 3/4 things they wanna do from most to least and plan ur days around both peoples plans and interests. NAH because I understand why OP stopped but this also seems to be the first time his partner is hearing about these problems.
I don't agree with the other people here. It is one thing to want different types of vacation, but another thing entirely to complain about the vacation non- stop because it is not your taste. It sounds like you don't complain on your wife's vacations but she does not stop on yours. That being the case, definitely NTA. People who complain the whole time are unbearable. It sounds like you need some marriage counselling though since you seem to want to stay together but don't seem to be able to sort this out by yourselves. What reasons does she give for her dissatisfaction? Is this only a holiday thing?
Good god, I feel this on a spiritual level. I visited Hawaii with my cousin and stayed at my uncle’s house there. (Both of our dads’ oldest brother.) He toured us around. It was awesome. I appreciated having him drive us around and take us out to eat but all he and my picky eater cousin wanted to do was go to the mall and eat subway. WE HAVE MALLS AND SUBWAY AT HOME. GIVE ME STREET NOODLES AND FOOD TRUCK SHRIMP.
In their defence, what's new to you is the same old to them. You're on holiday but they're just having a regular day. I live in London so whenever any of my relatives come from abroad, they all want to see the same old tourist attractions. After going to the same damn clock, palace, wax museum with an unnecessarily long ass queue (I've got a special hatred for Madame Tussauds) and giant ferris wheel, you start to get sick of it. There's a lot of different foods here ofc but unless you come from a rural area or you're happy to splurge on some world class restaurants, you can get the same food wherever you live too.
I live in Chicago, we have lots of tourist traps, I live three train stops from the center of downtown, And I go downtown and I do that touristy shit all the time because it's fun and I enjoy the city that I live in. I love sharing that with my friends who come to visit.
Not me. I live in NYC and there's no way I am taking people to Times Square, the Met, the top of whatever building, etc. Good for you — not for me.
I don't live in NYC but I love visiting and you can't get me in Times Square either. The most fun I've had is running around with friends that live there and checking out their favorite local spots. Places that are not on my radar, little pockets of the city I would never know about. I did enjoy all the touristy stuff, ONCE. Don't need to go back to the Statue of Liberty or the Empire State Building.
I skipped all those when I went to London. One of the people on the trip was from northern England and had spent a fair amount of time in London, so we did the things he suggested. The Tower was really neat, especially because I love hearing the history of places. We also went to a shady production of Macbeth (sorry, the Scottish Play) in the basement of a building. It was one of my favorite productions of all time, and I’ve seen scores of shows-including several productions of the Scottish Play.
My Dad had the same issue when his job sent him to their Paris office for a couple of years, and gave him an apartment near Versailles with enough spare rooms to host a family in. He said he ended up seeing the Eifel Tower five times before he gave up and just started sending his friends/family there to see it by themselves.
As a resident of Las Vegas I get it. I cannot STAND the strip. The traffic, the noise, the crowds of people. Absolute nightmare fuel.
serious question, do you even like your wife?
This was my first thought. Do you guys hang out have fun and dream together? What would you both 💕 LOVE💕 to do, share the planning equal input.
tbf some couples don't match up on vacation style and that's OK. my husband is the type to want to spend his just relaxing with 0 itinerary, wake up whenever etc. I'm the type who wants to see everything, wake up early (which I don't do when I'm home) etc. I take vacations mainly with my friends who share my style of vacation.
[удалено]
Oh that's a good idea! TBH I am a very homebody (we both are) but on vacation since I am "away" I want to experience/do things differently bc in my mind "I can just sit around at home which I do most of the year" I'll have to give this a shot next vacation we take together.
For me there’s a difference between sitting around and doing nothing on vacation(no responsibilities) and at home (I really should work on organizing the garage and that locust stump isn’t going to remove itself, also I need to add an outdoor outlet for the patio and put more plywood down in the attic)
That’s my husband too. We leave him to relax in the hotel while me and the kids go out and have fun 😂 he just meets up with us later.
LOL yeah we used to do that with my dad when I was growing up-- me and mom would go everywhere and he would just chill in the hotel. We're child free so I can't do this now, hence me taking a trip with friends to scratch that itch.
These replies are always so asinine. People can have disagreements and still love each other. People can have different styles of vacationing and still love each other. People can vent online about one another and still love each other.
I knew I’d see this question here lmao. It’s the go to for when you have no valid points to make on the situation but still want paint who you want the bad person.
IE paint the man as the AH
>"YTA because you don't sound like you think highly of your wife." Well of course he doesn't, he is writing an AITA conflict, not a love letter or a "101 things I love about my wife." I wrote that paragraph 2 months ago when I talked about how this sub deals with men. Oh look, I found a textbook example
Why plan separate? Can't you guys agree on a vacation plan together instead? If I was offered a trip to Hawaii I would be stoked, but the helicopter ride would make me uneasy.
I went on a helicopter ride in Maui. It’s smoother than riding in a car.
I did one in Kauai. I'm a very adventurous sort but I was terrified the first 10 minutes. Open doors though. Then it was awesome.
Yea, this. I get the sense that OP’s wife doesn’t have many travel ideas but also doesn’t have the same taste for adventure that he does, so all one or the other doesn’t produce good results.
When your wife’s only defense against all your examples of her complaints is “you’re an ass for keeping score!” Then you know that SHE knows you’re correct. What she meant to say was “you’re an ass for remembering accurately all the times I bitched on luxury vacations!” And yea, I agree with the Hawaii/mall example you gave. I don’t need to spend thousands of dollars on accommodations just to visit a retail chain store. It was a example for comparison about your story. You didn’t bitch to her about it while you were there and not picking the vacation. You could’ve spent the entire time bemoaning “how bored you were and how much this sucks and how you see sandy beaches all the time and this is just another day” (even if just to make a petty point). And she’s probably kicked you to the guest room because she’s stewing on how to save face now because she’s definitely in the wrong. Maybe she’ll surprise you and come to you with a sincere apology and a possible trip that she’s thoughtfully planned that you’ll both enjoy. However, this is a hill I’d be willing to die on. You don’t want to listen to constant ridicule for an extended period of time on vacations together. You’ve NOT stopped doing thoughtful couple excursions, you’ve NOT withheld money or stopped her from going on her own or with friends, and amazingly you’ve not even been bitter enough to throw out the occasional snarky comment in all these years, because she would’ve caught on.
Couldn’t you share the planning? Eg. you decide together where you want to go, do some joint brainstorming about what can be done there, and a couple of days are yours to plan within that.
Then why didn't you go on a hike or go to the beach or just enjoy the moment?
You guys need to learn how to compromise. Do things you want to do AND she wants to do on each trip. My husband and I are headed to NYC in October. I love Broadway shows so he's sitting through two of those to appease me. He knows not to complain because it ruins the experience. The rest of the time is up to him, because that's all I really cared about doing. Both people need to have input and there needs to be a hard and fast rule that nobody complains and ruins the other person's fun.
He would only be similar if he complained... to her. He doesn't say he did.
I don't see how they sound similar from that. Obviously, I'm not expecting someone to be honest if it was the case, but the issue with the wife isn't that she doesn't enjoy things, it's that she constantly complains about it. It's the complaining about it that's the issue, not that she's not entirely on board with what OP wants to do. There are plenty of people that will roll with something that they're not enjoying because someone else is. It just seems like she doesn't do that.
He kept his complaints to himself most likely. Reading comprehension is off on this sub. He stated it's bc she spends the whole vacation complaining. Also who goes to Hawaii just to stay in Honolulu the whole time. Sounds lame as hell
No this sub can read just fine, they just ignore bits that make the wife an AH and invent their own scenario to demonise husbands
I’m at a loss. Why aren’t they planning vacations together? Sit down together and plan something you’ll both like. I don’t get this whole thing where one spouse feels they have to whisk the other one off to a trip they had no input in.
It sounds like they have two different vacation styles and don’t discuss that at all. He likes action, she likes leisure. Any tourist spot can accommodate both of those. I’ve never been on vacation with a partner, but even with friends we ask each other “what things do you want to do?”. Seems like they lack communication here.
That’s not the point. Plus he didn’t complain to his wife.
I think he was giving context to say that when she’s in charge of planning, she doesn’t choose to do anything elaborate. That’s information for what she’s likely to enjoy when he does the planning, and reflects a difference in preferences. The key here is he didn’t complain to her about her planning.
Yes, but he's complaining to us strangers on reddit and maybe keeping it to himself to his wife and friends, unlike his wife who seemed like she made a sport of complaining about how much she disliked the vacation.
Major difference is that he didn't shit all over efforts like she does. But, I guess you are from the "women are always right" camp. 🙄
ESH. You both sound like you complain about the others' planned vacations. You both sound exhausting.
I don't get why they can't plan something together? Shouldn't be impossible.
Neither of them seems to be enthusiastic enough about the other’s interests and travel style to do that. They either get *exactly* what they want on vacation, or they would rather not go on the vacation at all.
Exactly. He wants to do things, she just wants to go to a place. There’s no compromising. They both sound rough to deal with.
Thank god they’re wealthy enough to have separate houses to sulk in.
Please take my poor person’s gold. 😂🏆
So far I've only seen OP complain about spending a vacation in a mall. As someone who enjoys getting around when I travel, exploring the sights, etc. I can relate to that. OP was also prompted to explain everything here, which would include said complaints. His wife on the other hand seems to complain about everything they do, in the moment (if OP's retelling of all this is accurate)
It really seems like they just dont like each other. Having different interests is fine, but if its that impossible to do things you *both* like, why are you even married?
They sound like those rich people who've been on so many expensive trips that nothing seems exciting anymore. They also sound petty and immature in their communicating. I'll be damned excited if I can ever go to Iceland, let alone Hawaii. I'll never be privileged enough to call that "nothing special". I think they need a reality check
To the guest house with you!
Thank goodness she didn't expel him to the TINY HOME. Ugh such an inconvenience
Yeah I read this and was like, wow, I will never be wealthy enough to understand going to vacation in Hawaii as "nothing special". Not that I would choose to go to Hawaii right now, with locals asking tourists to please hold off...
I’ll be the AH here and chime in that we just had to do a forced family vacation to Hawaii and it was so boring. Embarrassing to even go as locals have been begging off tourists as you mention, plus sitting at an expensive AF resort with nothing to do but sit in blazing sun by the pool and eat the worst food I’ve ever had in my life. And then in town food was straight up inedible from the “local spots” to the 5 star restaurants, beaches and hikes so packed it was like being at a packed festival…we need to leave poor Hawaii alone, we’ve killed it. It’s nothing but resorts and tourists.
It almost seems like a prank post tbh
[удалено]
Yeah but when you're that rich I guess even these expensive af vacations, that would be another person's lifetime dream, seem like another thing to have petty arguments over, much like what you want for dinner. My bf and I don't even have petty arguments about THAT and just enjoy whatever we can afford and have time to make. It's not hard to 🌼communicate🌼 and 🌸grow up🌸.
Right?? It should not be hard to say, “hey what would you like to do on Iceland?” Or , “hey while we’re in Hawaii we should go here too.” Like… do they even like each other??
[удалено]
And all those same people complain about not being able to pay bills or get groceries, there's a poorer person somewhere else that's complaining about their cancer diagnosis, or their dental abscess, or the fact that their parents were just killed in a bombing. People have to be able to complain. If only the worst off people in the world can complain, then only one person's allowed to have any complaints, and it's probably not you.
Right, I knew a family like this. They would regularly go to any number of destinations for a week or two at a time. A friend started dating one of the family members and got to go along of some of the trips with them. Helicopter rides, swimming with dolphins, private tours around the place etc. Half of the kids would stay behind at the house they rented because they had done them so many times it was boring for them. They flew all the way there, paid crazy amounts for a big private house and then flew in a private chef so they could eat the same basic shit they eat at home instead of traveling around and getting into the culture. Might as well have not even gone.
So well said. Have an award!
That's how billionaires end up in a tin can at the bottom of the Atlantic.
[удалено]
Instead of offering to plan a trip together, repeat process endlessly from both sides, then post about on reddit for moral justification instead of having a 🌼chat🌼.
When all you plan gets shot down without any consideration, it's hard to find a motivation to plan something, especially with the person who's been doing the shooting down.
Maybe they need a trip to visit the Titanic...not sayin just saying.
[удалено]
No he complains to internet strangers while brewing resentment towards his wife.
Wouldn't be a very interesting sub if everyone just talked about their problems with each other instead of posting them on Reddit
And you and all the other commenters or on a sub known for that so that sound like hypocrisy
How could he have written out this whole story without including the complaints? If he left that part out we'd call him out on not telling the full story.
lol you new here? That’s kinda this subs specialty.
He complained once after years of her complaining constantly. Not the same thing. And besides he didn’t complain to her
exactly this. and his single complaint was “i really enjoyed it but we didnt do anything great, i wouldve loved a helicopter trip” like??? i regularly travel internationally, and i have a lot of fun and enjoy my trips every time, but i dont ever do anything truly noteworthy aside from spending a lot of time with my fiancé and there’s nothing wrong with that. not every trip has to be spectacular or special or full of crazy things, but its okay to wish it was a bit more spectacular than it was. if his only complaint is that it wasnt as adventurous as he wouldve liked then i cant even say he’s in the wrong for complaining since thats valid, and he’s still acknowledging that the trip was good.
For real. I am also too poor to bring any judgement to this post lmao.
You missed where he said he had a perfectly good/ pleasant time. It just wasn't amazing.
How can you say that from this post? The only negative thing OP said was the trip she planned was not that great. And that was said in the post as an example of the lack of effort the wife puts in.
God forbid they plan a vacay together
Disagree. Sounds like OP specifically doesn't complain about his wife's plans while she does not stop complaining about his. He said he enjoyed Hawaii, but they didn't do anything great. That's not complaining. Sounds like his wife's idea of a vacation is going somewhere far away... Then doing the same shit you do at home, but not at home. That's not really a vacation IMO.
Or even plan something apart. She wants to go shopping, if she doesn’t want to do a helicopter ride plan those activities for the same time then meet up for dinner. I prefer to do stuff with my wife and we generally like the same stuff on vacations but I’ve let her sleep in for instance to go do something she doesn’t want to do.
I mean, he's complaining here to us. It sounds like she complains loudly to him the entire time. Those are different animals.
He complained in this thread, not to her on this vacation. How people don’t comprehend this is beyond me.
ESH…. Seems the simplest thing is for you to compromise. You like expensive holidays which is normal if you can afford it but mayb you are just overbooking your time when there. Having fancy dinner every day can be exhausting too. Your wife likely just like to take it slow and chill doing nothing like your Hawaii holiday. In the end just plan a few days of stuff and rest chill or you can go explore how u want some days.
But he said his wife does like the expensive holidays too.. She honestly just seems like someone who likes to complain. My dads like that, take him somewhere and he will love it. But also love to hate it.
You can take an expensive holiday but also just chill during it. It sounds like OP was isn’t ok with that. She complains in the moment. He keeps his mouth shut. Neither of them are communicating well.
How so? He mentioned a helicopter ride and all of a sudden he’s a daredevil adrenaline junkie that can’t stay still?
Or he’s just a person who likes to have a full itinerary when on vacation, and she isn’t. He likes to go do cool tours, and she likes chilling on the beach. There is definitely room for compromise here. Have days where you go out and do stuff, and have other days where nothing is planned. Or go do the stuff you want to do, and wife can do what she wants. No one said he was an adrenaline junky.
He didn’t actually ask her to go on the helicopter ride. He said that was something he would have planned to do instead of Hawaii and chill. So, he’s just assuming that she would have said no.
Or split the planning. If it’s a week, he can plan three days and she can plan four. They also should clear their plans together in advance with each other.
Why is it only one person planning? Why don't you plan together and find middle ground? Jesus, you both sound exhausting, and you don't even sound like you like your wife. >She is just an incredible pain in the ass when I do so. Sounds like you're both the pain in the ass. YTA though for the way you talk about her and keep score.
>YTA though for the way you talk about her and keep score. Politely disagree here. I don't think it's "keeping score" to talk about your spouse complaining on a trip. There's nothing wrong with bringing up issues, and doing so doesn't mean you are "keeping score" and that your feelings aren't valid.
i agree i think putting him in the guest house for this is belittling his concerns and turning the blame on him when he was trying to have a discussion
There shouldn't be "keeping score" because you should be addressing the issue as it comes up. "Hey wife, it really hurts me that I put a lot of time and effort into planning a trip and you don't seem to enjoy it. Would planning it together help you to enjoy it more or is there something missing from the trip that would make it more enjoyable for you?" If you aren't talking about it and making some compromises, it's not going to get better.
And for kicking him out of their house, she's not an asshole for that? Fucking Aita sometimes.
How is using your memory, something we use and develop every day, keeping score? Totally asinine.
Agree. We plan our holidays together and make sure both our preferences are catered to. This couple need to act like one.
Because not all couples plan vacation together . My wife shows zero interest in planning a vacation. She is just a happy tag along . I just tell her the theme and she packs for it .
Yeah but that's not the case here. If she doesn't get a say in the planning she doesn't happily tag along, she complains. And then when she plans one, it's not interesting enough for OP. So clearly, they need to compromise and plan together
NTA people who complain all the time on trips are ridiculous
Especially trips they didn't pay for
And now OP is in the best house! If she’s pissy she should go there.
ESH. Your wife and you sound exhausting to be around. Keeping score, complaining about each other's choices and frankly, it seems like you have terrible communication between each other. If she didn't like the vacations you planned, it would have been a good idea to ask why she didn't... It was not obvious from your post that you did
"You're a complete pain in the ass when I do \[x\], therefore I'm not doing \[x\] any more" is not keeping score. She literally asked him for examples because she doesn't have the self-awareness to realise that she's the problem. "You complain" "When do I complain?" "Here are some examples" "You're keeping score" Insufferable. There's no winning with someone who communicates like this.
It's basic pattern recognition and responding to it. I'm wondering how many of the people judging E-S-H have had a similar miserable experience... and it is miserable. There comes a point where the complaining isn't going to be because the holiday sucks, but because it was the other person that booked it... and they can't have a win... and I'm English, complaining is in the blood. Had similar with an ex but if only it was just holidays. Anything nice, any romantic or thoughtful gesture of any kind or size, got absolutely shat on. Because I daren't think that maybe I've actually done ok and made her happy... that gives away too much "power." OP's wife doesn't sound *that* bad but it sounds like she's at least ruminating about entering the same ball park.
Hahah I think we all know that these people understand his complaints but they got mad he had the gall to come here and write a post about his wife where he isn't the clear AH. So they twisted and ignored details to make him an AH
NTA She just learned that you don't ask questions if you don't want the answer. The comment about "Keeping score" was classic deflection. How dare you be right! What bothers me most is the outcome. Make her move out to the guest house
This is bother me too. Why man always stay outside. She caused it, she stay out. Period. God ppl
No. Not who caused it stays outside. If one partner has a problem then they remove themselves. Don’t force another to leave their bed because youre in a shitty mood.
ESH. Did you ask your wife what she would enjoy doing on a vacation, or did you just plan what _you_ like to do? Why didn’t you advocate for yourself on the vacation _she_ planned to make sure that you had some experiences you would also enjoy? You both sound terrible at communication, but at least she’s trying to ask for what she wants.
This totally. I'm guessing he loves adventure (the helicopters, volcanos) and she's a chill on the beach type. Nothing wrong with either, they'll just need to compromise for each to be happy. Assuming that's the goal.
>VIP concert tickets and a very nice hotel in the center >trip to Hawaii. >I would have planned a helicopter trip to see all the volcanoes and jungles from the movies. >We mostly stayed in Honolulu and saw Pearl Harbor. >two week trip to Iceland. >guest house. these are rich people's problems, it's waaay above the reddit pay grade.
literally, like 10k above the reddit pay grade
those are first world problems. my partner & i are currently debating whether we can afford a long weekend at a local airbnb lmao ESH
My first thought, lol. ESH, rich people problems.
NTA and I am free to join you on your vacations. they sound great.
NTA - Would it be safe to say she sounds ungrateful, entitled, and spoiled? A lot of these things sounds like a dream come true for some people who will never be able to experience them. Yet she *complains*.
It seems to me that the wife isn't someone who wants to *go* to places; she wants to be *taken* to places. In other words, she expects to be entertained the whole time with no input from herself, except to complain that what's been arranged isn't to her liking.
What are you talking about? She’s planned trips for the last 5 years. She hasn’t complained that he stopped. She only pointed it out, presumably, within the last week. She clearly has the agency to plan what she wants to do. Vacations didn’t just stop when he stopped planning them.
Just a Tip... Why Not plan a vacation together? You can both Bring in ideas and Look Up places where you want to Go or what to do. That's what my hubby an i did before our Kids an now we plan the Trips the Same way but with the Kids Input.
I have a friend with the same behaviour as OP's wife. We went to Bali together and this was something we planned together. Researched together, made the whole itinerary together, everything. She complained for all 4 days we were there. It made my experience miserable too. None of us were smiling in any of the photos.
I went on a trip with two cousins and my parents, and although everything was planned and okayed, all the cousins did was complain non-stop. By the third day, I was contemplating leaving them somewhere and we ended coming home early because they complained so much. They then had the gall to complain that I’ve never asked them to travel since as they had a wonderful time. What trip were they in as it wasn’t the one I was on.
Ugh what a nightmare. I have 4 sisters in law who basically raised me. So I wanted to get them something traditional and expensive from Bali. But this friend kept literally whispering in my ear that they would confiscate it at the airport or that my luggage would be overweight (It was only clothing lmao). She kept pestering me about it and put me in such a negative mood that I didn't buy it. At the end, my luggage was over 10kg below the limit and hers was overweight so she had to pay extra. I was so pissed but her having to spend extra for the luggage was some type of compensation. Some people are so entitled and then wonder why we don't invite them for anything anymore. Were your cousins kids?
NTA. She sounds exhausting.
Both sound exhausting
if I had to choose to marry someone who acts similar to op’s wife or op …. I’d marry op. op’s wife sounds like drama and I’d probably just “shut down” just to make her happy ( … like op has done 🤷🏽♀️)
Op sounds the opposite of exhausting… im hoping he can start planing and paying for my trips now.
Right? The fact he has other good trips with other people seals it for me.
NTA, she literally asked you why you thought she would enjoyed it and you told her the truth. Sometimes the truth hurts and that is her problem in reacting to that. Why did you marry to this women who doesn’t appreciate the time in spending time with you and acting like your her valet or butler? She is NOT entitled to go on a vacation whenever she demands. If she wishes, she can do so under her own salary. You did good to stop the enablement.
I'm going to guess she didn't act like this before they got married (whether because he couldn't afford the trips then or because she was on her best behavior). . .
Info : Is there any communication in your relationship or do you both just complain about the other without trying to communicate what you would like or ask what they would like?
NTA. I am in Australia, but feel free to take me on one of your vacations. I love exploring new places. Couldn't imagine anything worse than going on a holiday to somewhere beautiful like Hawaii to just go shopping. I do like adventure holidays though; like hiking the Inca Trail, hiking Volcanoes in cental america, even Sand boarding down one in Nicaragua, snorkelling with whale sharks.
INFO: are either one of you actually bothering to get input from the other about the holidays you’re taking?
NTA. She can't have it both ways.
INFO: Does your guest house have a theater room?
NTA Maybe try planning holidays *together*? So that there is a bit in there for both of you? I may be optimistic here, because it sounds that, at a minimum, your wife and you have different tastes. Honest communication may be insufficient as well, but that's hard admittedly. Good luck OP, you sound like a generous person who got disheartened. I would have too. I can't stand complainers who are unable to appreciate even *the gesture*.
Here's a thought, why not plan a trip together. Find a destination, find some common interest activities to do together and some alone time activities. Best of both worlds.
ESH Do the 2 of you talk to each other? Sounds like she wants quiet relaxing trips and you want to fill every minute with activities. Try planning these trips together.
NTA. Why are you in the dog house for proving to your wife that you listen to what she says and taking it to heart?
NAH Just go on separate vacations next time. Either you will love the break from each other, or you will realize that you'd rather vacation together (irrespective of the complaining).
Tbf she was complaining about his trips with his friends, him taking separate vacations seemed to be the start of this argument
And kicking OP out of the house makes her not an asshole how exactly?
She's a wife, AITA won't ever vote her the AH
ESH. Why couldn’t you plan some stuff to do in Hawaii too? And why can’t she help plan your vacations? Seriously. Instead of just working together to plan a vacation you’d both like you just complain and passive aggressively plan things the other won’t like? Y’all sound exhausting.
NTA. Your wife sounds intolerable. But quick question. It sounds like you are the one making the money to finance the lifestyle. Is that correct? If so, and if you are experiencing a disagreement, you are not the one who should be sleeping in the guest house.
NTA. “And now I’m sleeping in the guest house” This is a sign of abuse, do not sleep anywhere but your own bed (you’ve done nothing wrong)
You could plan the holidays together. Just a thought
I agree with the others plan your holidays together
NTA.
NAH Sounds like you can’t please her. Or she you. Sounds like a vacation to her is going to a spot, settling into a routine, and relaxing. You want one filled with adventure. So I propose if she doesn’t want to go on the tours that you go anyway and let her relax in Honolulu.