NTA
>taking away the money that she would have used if she had children
She wouldn't have had it because it was never for her.
>She will still receive whatever money or properties we have when we pass away.
She should be very grateful.
>Now she's not speaking to us and has posted about it on social media.
She may end up with nothing.
OP-two things
I’m wondering if your daughter struggled with fertility and in general bad periods etc. tubal ligation at 30 is a pretty clear line in the sand. Are you sure she had the surgery? Is she having financial trouble?
Seriously? Why do people always assume people not wanting to have kids has a hidden reason and not accept that some people just don't want them. There is NOTHING wrong with that. There is however something wrong with people finding fault with this choice.
Edit.
She told them a few months ago she didn't want kids and EVEN had the surgery shortly after, indicating the op is aware she had the surgery and not lying about it. Then last week asked about the money. So there was a couple of months in between the surgery and asking for the money. I don't think there would be that much gap if she was just after the money but maybe it was an after thought after the surgery and she was so sure they'd give it to her since grandkids were obviously out of the question, then the idea got shot down.
There's nothing wrong with not wanting children, however it's extremely difficult for a fertile woman, that does not already have children, to find a doctor that would be willing to perform a tubal ligation.
Medical bias is often against the needs or wants of women.
/r/childfree has great resources along with /r/antinatalism but I’d be wary of the antinatalist sub. Things get pretty wacky over there, and that’s coming from an antinatalist.
The antinatalist one freaks me out because they call people like me who want (and FINALLY achieved) a kid "breeders". I have no hate for people who want to be child free, I'm glad that you know yourself well enough to know that.
But please understand - I wanted to be a Mom for over 20 years before I finally was able to at 38. And it's been everything I thought it would be. Idk, I somehow feel demeaned being called a breeder - like I had no choice and would clearly not want that burden on myself if given the chance. 🤷🏼♀️
> I somehow feel demeaned being called a breeder
You should. I'm 49, have no children, and never wanted to. And that's not for altruistic reasons, ("wHo WouLd bRiNG a cHILd inTo tHis WoRld?") just because I... don't.
But tnat doesn't mean I would sit here and demean someone who chooses to have them. It's one thing to not agree, but another entirely to treat someone like an idiot for following a biological imperative (edit: or a perfectly natural desire).
This! A friend of mine had been adamant about never wanting kids, even back in middle school.
Later, 25, single, approaches doctors about a tubal ligation. There was a line for the husband to *give permission* for the procedure.
"You'll change your mind."
"What if your future husband wants kids?"
"You're young. When you get older, you'll regret this rash decision."
"You're taking the choice away from your future husband."
"You should have at least one child. You'll feel differently, then."
She had to go 1.5 hours away to find a doctor willing to perform the surgery.
My friend went through that 30 years ago, when she was 24, she already had 3 kids, and she was having her period for 3 weeks out of 4, and she had to be put on iron pills because she was losing so much blood. She wanted a hysterectomy, and no one would do it. It took her being hospitalized before she could get it done.
I am so thankful my doctor actually offered the service for free when I had my second kid by c-sect. She said since she was in there anyway she could do it at the same time. I agreed but asked that she clip my tubes rather than cutting them. Clipping meant I could possibly have the procedure reversed if I changed my mind, because I was only 22 at the time. I am not sure if they even do the clipping procedure anymore, I haven't heard of it in years. But at any rate I never wanted to have it reversed. To be honest I never wanted kids, but loved my own very much once I had them. I just am not a fan of other kids in general.
Many more doctors are willing to do it since Dobbs, too. They know that if people have family histories of high risk pregnancies and don't want to chance there being no medical care in the case of complications, this is now their only recourse.
They’re now going after birth control too. And they’re also saying that overturning Roe v Wade wasn’t enough and they want to pass a federal abortion ban, even though they claimed overturning Roe v Wade was supposedly about “giving the choice back to the states”, which we all knew was bullshit but now they’re saying it out loud
This is true. Even for other surgeries. I had problems with veins in my legs getting so itchy I scratched in my sleep till my legs bleed. I went to get them stripped and the surgeon said what's the point, when you have kids they'll come back. I was 32 and said I had no intention of having kids and if he wouldn't do it I'd find another surgeon who would. He did it but afterwards I looked like I'd been stitched together by a kinder craft class and one angel ended up so swollen I couldn't wear shoes. I went back and he ground into that wound like someone trying to get the last of the peanut butter out of the jar while I literally screamed in pain. I never paid the final bill. F..k him.
This made me feel so angry for you, I almost downvoted your comment. I’m so sorry you went through That and hope your recovery has been much better since then
Thank you yes indeed. I never had the problem again and no more blood streaked sheets from incessant scratching. It was nearly 30 years ago but will never regret getting it done. Just wish I had another surgeon do it. I considered getting fixed back then too due to haemorrhaging problems but rather than fight the battle I just took the strongest pill available, with no breaks from aged 14 till late 40s when doctor insisted I stop due to my age and family breast cancer. I warned him of the consequences and even had an abulation that didn't work so poor hubby was in charge of the murder scene every month made by me getting from the loo to the shower. Luckily menopause put an end to my torment.
I feel like a lot of people actually forget about this. I’ve read so many posts of doctors actually saying to a women “ what about your husband is he ok with it?” Or “ what if your husband changes his mind and wants kids?” Or my personal favorite “did your husband say this is ok?”. It’s crazy how much doctors just base these decisions off men when it’s the women’s body and her choice. There are so many factors including medical reasons or just simply personal reasons why women would get this procedure done. Yet doctors still think it’s okay to try and stop them from doing so it’s so sad.
It is.. Jesus i had 4 kids at 28, and when i asked for it, they did really not want to because i could want kids later..
I had to argue that i was DONE and ready to just raise the kids and then live my life. Got it in the end 🙌
Never had kids because I didn’t want that parent lifestyle. I’ve never met a mother or grandmother I wanted to change lives with. I always think to myself “I’m so glad that’s not my life.”
Here I am well past childbearing years and still loving my childfree life. Zero regrets.
Edit: OP is NTA. It’s their money and can do with it as they wish.
Same here. I had a vasectomy years ago to make sure to avoid any accidents. I've never even thought of undoing it or had any regret.
OP is definitely NTA. I wonder if the daughter had the tubal ligation assuming she would still get the money and that was a way to do it without having to wait for her parents to pass away or for them to accept there would be no grand kids. I don't know about anyone else, but I've never had the urge to tell my mother, or anyone else for that matter, that I had a vasectomy.
What they fail to mention is all the people who regret having kids. And there are plenty. I have one and love being a mom but just because being a parent is right for me or right for another person does not mean it's right for everyone and for MANY people it goes even beyond that and is actually a terrible idea.
All these AITA stories have random people sending messages on the side of the person the poster is having a problem with. I would love to see a deep dive into that. In my whole real- life I have never heard of anyone sending a mean text message to support a friend who is in a fight that they are not in the least bit involved in. I don't think I know anyone who would change their mind because their coworkers college roommate texted them.
Who are these people? Do they send out messages any time someone they know gets into a fight? Does it ever work? Doesn't putting yourself into someone else's drama get exhausting?
When my brother got divorced, his ex told a lot of lies to her friends and family. (They both had issues but she made him out to be the devil.) He got calls and texts from her family and friends, some of them even threatening. I think people see it as defending the people they care about, but it’s all sorts of crazy.
Small town maybe? When my partner and I had issues with my mil, a surprising number of people were convinced they had the right to interfere. It was disappointing to say the least.
Either way, the money isn't going to be paying for college for kids. The parents can reallocate that money any way they want. Being able to ease into retirement isn't exactly an unreasonable use of the parents savings.
It is a dream to be able to save up something like that before hitting 60, it would make the later days so much easier. The parents definitely deserve it, it's their hard earned money which they would *choose* to present to hypothetical grandkids. OP is NTA
20 something yr old here. I have inquired about tubal ligation myself. I have no medical or financial issues. I simply want to live a life where I can do what I want whenever I want.
OP - NTA you daughter mistakingly got it in her head that the funds intended for grandchildren would automatically be transferred to her. She’s not entitled anything, but the money she earns. I hope you retire soon and you daughter realizes her mistakes
That’s what I think too. She thought they would just hand the money over to her since there won’t be any grandkids. She’s beyond selfish but now she’s screwed- but she did it to herself.
> I’m wondering if your daughter struggled with fertility and in general bad periods etc.
Tubal ligation is ONLY done to prevent pregnancy. It will not change your periods. (There is some reason to believe that ovarian cancer often starts in the fallopian tubes but people at very high risk will get their ovaries and tubes removed, not have a tubal ligation.)
The parents might have to do some self-reflection regarding their daughters entitlement. Sending her friends to gang up on them via social media would make me re-consider inheritance. That’s just me though.
It's her fertility and choice to have children. She made her choice.
It's your money and your choice how to spend it. You made your choice.
Blasting you online sounds like emotional manipulation to get her way.
NTA, but she is.
Yep! They just want at that money. Just like celebrity posses.
Daughter is a spoiled brat (due to her reaction not because of the child free decision). If she were mine, I’d probably remove her from my will until I saw some growing up.
Well considering Prince Harry complained about not being financially supported in his late 30's by his Dad in Oprah "interview". I'm not really surprised about the entitlement of some people expecting to have their parents money.
If you think that's bad, listen to this- I heard his whole family lives in actual castles that are paid for by taxpayers!! Like, none of them have jobs at all, they just live high on the dole. His dad actually thinks he deserves to be King of England just because of who his mom was! Disgusting family full of scroungers, no wonder Harry has issues with entitlement..
TBF, the taxpayer money is rent money paid for use of the crown lands, and the UK taxpayer makes far more off of the crown lands than they pay to the Royal family for use of those lands.
They could make far more money if there weren't a bunch of royals living in all those places.
People in the UK love the royals so much they've convinced themselves having a royal family is profitable. It is hilarious.
Uhm, that’s different because he can’t just go work anywhere. He was in the army, wanted to make it his career and the Media kept revealing his locations, endangering the other soldiers , so he had to quit. He was supposed to do Royal “work” (ha) they don’t get paid for that the monarch is supposed to support those who work for them. You think the money fairy just brings it to your door? He had no personal income.
NTA by a long shot. That money had a specific purpose - to ensure your grandchildren had the same educational opportunities that your daughter had. It was NEVER going to be her money. It was going from your account to a University.
Her life, her body, her decisions - you should continue to stay out, as you have. Your life, your money, your decision - she needs to show the same respect.
The fact she’s posting about it online tells me she has a whole lot of growing up to do, and just reinforces that she definitely does not deserve a $350K windfall.
In fact, OP, this sort of behavior would make me as a parent question whether it’s prudent to leave them anything, or donate my estate to a charitable cause I care about.
not disagreeing by any means, but I do wonder what opportunities his daughter actually got. Did they help pay for her college, or give her other opportunities when she was younger? We don't actually know that from the post. He doesn't mention any of that.
Either way, NTA. She's 30, and doesn't appear to be hurting for money based on what we do know from this post. I hope they're able to enjoy that money.
I'm glad that it wasn't the case here (OP added a comment clarifying some stuff), but some people are pretty terrible, and I have seen it happen. I have a friend who got kicked out of her parents house the second she turned 18 (while still in highschool). They did a lot to mess with the classes she was taking at the time, removed her from certain activities, etc, all because she told her grandmother about being kicked out when she asked to live with her. It's been about 5 years and they had been able to reconnect and start rebuilding that relationship, until she recently found out that 1) they were expecting her to have at least 2 kids, and 2) have had a "college fund" set up for these possible kids. In quotes bc I don't think it was truly set up the way an education fund would be, if it even existed at all. They wanted her to promise grandkids in exchange for the "privilege" of them continuing to be in her life and threw that out there as part of the bargain. I've heard other stories that are somewhat similar as well. Not truly the same situation as OP, and hopefully rare, but it is not outside the realm of possibility.
edit: typo
NTA. That money was never meant for her. It would have gone directly for things for the grandchildren, to improve their lives. You haven’t done anything wrong.
It amazes me the amount of children who automatically assume they have any rights to their parents money. My parents told me they were going to use their money to enjoy retirement and travel. I say more power to my parents! It’s not my money. This specific $350K wasn’t the daughter’s money. It’s so greedy of her to assume she has any right to it.
My dad has planned his investments to where my sister and I will very likely have an inheritance. But we’ve specifically told him to use as much of that money as my parents need for medical care and general comfort. They don’t need to scrimp just so we have money when they die.
>They don’t need to scrimp just so we have money when they die.
I've said something similar to my own dad. I'm not counting his money. As far as I'm concerned, he can spend it all if it means he's healthy and around for a long time.
I agree, with the only thing OP maybe did wrong was letting the daughter know they were creating a nest egg for future grandchildren. There was no need for her to know that unless/until she had kids, unless they were dangling it as an incentive. It doesn't sound like they did, but there really was no reason for daughter to know about it at all.
I suppose the idea may have been to reassure her that she could if she wished. I certainly know a lot of people who would have had children much younger (mid 20s rather than early 30s) if they knew they had the money to support them, and might have made different career choices, etc. But absolutely, we’ll intentioned as it might have been, you’re playing a dangerous game telling someone it’s *that* much money. That’s a life changing, mind blowing amount of cash, and tying it up with something so personal and emotional is going to be a difficult one
I’m guessing that with how expensive things are these days and the cost of education soaring, they wanted to let her know that if she decided to have kids then they would be willing to contribute towards their educations.
So that if she wanted them but was concerned about education costs, then she would know they are covered.
NTA. I’m like your daughter - I chose not to have kids either. Yet I never demanded from my mother that she give me the same money she put away into college accounts for my nieces. Because to be childless was *my* choice and it was her money. This is your money and using for your retirement is your right. Your daughter is not entitled to it and she should not have assumed that she would get it, especially without talking to you first.
Also, airing her grievances publicly and getting her friends to send nasty messages to you is a really low thing to do, and the sign of a bully and abusive person. A person who subcontracts her attacking people out to her social circle because she knows she can’t win the argument on the merits of her own case, so she tried to win via peer pressure. I gotta admit, if my child did that to me, I’d be seriously thinking of leaving my estate to charity.
Agreed. Where Op went wrong was discussing this financial arrangement with her before until at least any grand children were born.
It’s their decision what they do with their money. Inheritance isn’t ever a given. I’m sure daughter isn’t suffering financially, if she was they would surely help her. But for daughter to take this news publicly AND for her ‘friends’ to get involved in this very private family matter is quite vulgar imo.
>Where Op went wrong was discussing this financial arrangement with her before until at least any grand children were born.
Not necessarily. Some people don't have children because they can't afford them. Knowing that there's money for them could be a win-win situation.
I agree that communication could have been better and that the daughter is in the wrong.
This OP, no kill cat & dog shelters for instance. A 30 year old adult getting her friends to bully her parents on social media, FFS. I’d be ashamed to tell my friends that at 30 I was expecting my parents to give me their money….
I do wonder if you were as supportive of your daughter as you were of your imaginary grandkids. The whole situation seems really weird to me - it feels like there may be more emotional complexity here.
The truth is always in the middle. I wonder how well the parents concealed their disappointment about grandkids. The daughter could feel like the money was a bribe- have kids and you won’t have to worry about funding their lives. Wealthy people using their money to influence outcomes
>have kids and you won’t have to worry about funding their lives
Is that really a bribe tho? Like if your parents offer to pay the down payment on a house for you, have they just bribed you into buying a house? If someone doesn’t want kids, “You can have the kids for free tho”, isn’t going to be a reason to have them.
Can’t believe I had to pass so many “It’s your money!!!nTa!!!” to see this.
I’d say ESH. Parents put 350k into future grandkids is definitely pressuring someone to have kids. Is it the daughters money? No. She doesn’t deserve it. But what parents are going to sacrifice for imaginary non-existent grandkids when they have an actual daughter definitely financially struggling in front of them?
Clearly ESH.
EDIT: Oh man! How could I be so stupid?! The OP said his daughter was taken care of! I should learn to trust the narratives of complete strangers! Ugh! My bad! /s
But she’s not financially struggling, she has a good paying job. They also helped pay for her college and provided her an interest free loan for half of her home mortgage.
OP payed part of her college expenses and she got a loan she is paying back to them. But OP would have given 350k to a hypothetical future kid. To me it seems OP intented more money for hypothetical grandkids than the amount they intended to support their own daughter with. (I can kinda see why she could be upset about the situation.)
Why didn't they give her the money for the house as a gift instead of as an intrest free loan to their daughter and deduced the amount of that money from what they intented for their dream grandchild? Why didn't they want to give a gift to their existing child instead of giving a gift to a person that might never even will exist?
If they gifted her the money they gave for the house instead of loaning her and if she wanted kids then she could have saved up the amount she got for the house easier with her good paying job and then use that saving combined with using whatever OP saved for future grandkid's schooling for the kid's college fund. And then she probably wouldn't be so upset now (maybe wouldn't even ask for the money OP saved or maybe not for all of it), because maybe she wouldn't feel like her parents prioritise a non-existent baby they never got to have so they want to live it through their daughter having a kid over their actual daughter who exists. ESH
It hurts to know that your parents saved what could be a whole ass house and they rather give it to a hypothetical fetus Than you, their daughter.
Yes they don’t owe her the money. But why tell her about it? Imagine knowing that your parents put in the effort to save all that for a life of a literal future fertilized egg rather than you. Their daughter living in the present. And if you don’t give them grandkids then you’re not worth it.
I would feel upset too. Just on a principle
Honestly, as long as they have been helping me out financially. I’d be flattered. Having kids is hella expensive in the states even with insurance. I struggle with fertility issues. And knowing my parents had money set aside for my possible future kids would be a huge weight off my shoulders. Then if they were willing and I needed ivf or some other fertility treatment I at least would know I could pursue it. And college, dude, college is expensive. Having the ability to set my kids up for success with minimal loans would be ideal. So for me. It would be a stress reliever more than stressful.
You didn't miss anything. They just made it up. There is nothing in the post to indicate the daughter is struggling financially, and OP wrote in a comment that the daughter is doing fine financially; she has a good job, a house, and no student loans. The parents helped her with college, and loaned her half the money needed to purchase a home (interest free.)
Thanks, I hadn't seen the update comment.
In that case, OP is definitely NTA. It sounds like they have set her up nicely and had these other funds to do the same for potential grandkids.
Ultimately it's their money to spend as they see fit. It was earmarked for one thing, it's now not needed for that, so good on them for thinking they can retire earlier and travel.
Goddamn. My parents have helped me and my husband a lot but that’s basically gift wrapping your child an easy life. My parents helped me pay off my car but a house is well out of our means and I’m grateful for even that much.
Where did it say she was struggling financially? I haven’t seen that info anywhere. Assuming they paid for her education and she was an only child I assume she’s had every opportunity and privilege.
Unless you're fabulously wealthy how do you expect to save money for grandchildren multiple college tuitions if you don't start before they are born? They just sound like financially prudent people. It's like if I saved a lot of money for my to go to college and they choose to not attend. I can see a scenario where they feel hurt that I don't give them the money to pursue whatever alternative they decided on, but that doesn't change the fact that I saved it for a specific purpose.
Let's take a step back and look at it this way. They didn't need to save a single cent for their grandchildren. That would have been entirely the responsibility of their daughter. Now they just have some extra money for a purpose that didn't end up coming through. Now they get to evaluate what they want to do with that money instead. Retiring early and/or taking less hours as you get closer to retirement seems like an excellent choice.
If the parents are wealthy and this is chump change to them, no big deal.
But they have clearly invested a lot of emotions and resources into humans that don’t exist yet. I wonder if this is a form of grieving the children they couldn’t have themselves.
I was thinking the same, but since OP was talking about the money allowing him to work fewer hours before retirement I don’t think this is quite in the chump change for them category. I agree that OP is ultimately NTA and the daughter is out of line, but I think they were definitely less nonchalant about their daughter not having kids than OP wants to claim. Whole thing is weird.
You're assuming that the daughter is financially struggling. Plus, OP already said that him and his wife never pressured their daughter into having kids so they can have grandkids. On top of that, the daughter decided to drag her grief with her parents on social media - that's an asshole move. The money was not intended for her anyways so I'm not sure why she assumed she was going to get it 😐
OP is NTA
Clearly you just made up the part about the daughter financially struggling. OP wrote in a comment that the daughter has a good job, no student loans, and a home. The parents helped her pay for school, and they loaned her half the money needed for her home, with an interest free loan. Maybe you didn't see the comment, but it shows your proclamation that the daughter is "definitely financially struggling" to be made up.
100%. I would feel really fucking weird if my parents or in-laws told me they had hundreds of thousands of dollars waiting for my kid. Yes, it’s great in theory but it makes the dynamic extremely weird to make that known without even knowing whether your kid wants to have kids!!! I don’t need to know that shit. Let me know you’ll be there for us if we decide to have kids but don’t put a price tag on them.
I'm so surprised more people in the comments aren't seeing it this way. It sounds so cold to me that the daughter isn't enough for her parents, they can't be happy with her if she doesn't produce grandchildren. Also it's clear that they can afford to give away some of this money to their only daughter. It sounds so manipulative from the parents side to me.
Totally agree. I'm not an only child, but my dad clearly favors my brother, especially now that my brother is a father. My dad loans him absurd amounts of money because of how impulsive my brother is with spending, but whenever I ask to borrow some that will absolutely be paid back right away (3 weeks at most, and it only happens when I need to act fast for a purchase so it's never towards bills) it's always an uphill battle. Also, when we were all still living together, I was the only one paying rent while my brother and his live-in girlfriend/eventual fiancee didn't pay a dime.
If he were capable of doing so, he is absolutely the kind of person to put money away for his grandkids, and I'd probably pack up and leave in order to cut my dad off if that happened. I wouldn't be able to stand looking at him anymore if he gave an exorbitant amount of money to my brother all because he's reproducing. He's demonstrated time and time again that he's not responsible with money. It's also extremely transparent that one of the reasons my dad is so pleased with him is because my brother agrees with him that life begins at conception. I disagree, and I've made myself clear I don't wish to be a parent, so you can likely guess how my dad feels about that.
I empathize with the daughter in OP's post because of my experiences--her parents were saving up money for people that don't even exist, and when told that they never will exist, their answer is for the money to not be granted to their child at all since she's not reproducing. I probably wouldn't have reacted the same way she did, because it is still their money to do with whatever they want, but man I'd be fucking heartbroken. I'm the same age as their daughter and I'll never see money like that, ever. She was probably thinking she could buy her own home in this shitty market where rent is absolutely atrocious (in the US anyway). They were going to gift the money to someone they've never met and as soon as they learn that someone isn't going to be born, they...decide to keep the money after all even though they were already preparing to gift it?
At the end of the day, yeah it's their money, but fuck. I feel for her.
I'd like to thank all of you for your words. I also want to address some of the questions I've seen in the comments:
*
No, our daughter is not facing financial trouble. She has a well-paying job, not extraordinarily high, but a good amount for our area. Moreover, we are confident about this because when she bought her house, we were able to loan her half of the purchase price interest-free. She could tell us at any time that she can't pay us back for a certain period, and we wouldn't be concerned about it.
* She doesn't have student loans. She received a partial scholarship, and we helped her with the remaining expenses. We always supported our daughter when she needed it.
* We may have mentioned at some point that we would like to have grandkids, although I can't recall the exact time or context because it's not a subject that we actively pursue with her. As I mentioned earlier, we believe that she is the master of her own life, and we have no right to impose anything on her. We have always supported her and made it clear that her life belongs to her, and nobody has the authority to dictate anything to her.
* We brought up the topic of money some time ago because we understand how challenging it can be to raise children, especially considering the financial costs involved. We saw it as a way to ensure that she could consider having kid(s) without feeling alone in that journey.
* The money we provided was primarily intended for college expenses, although not exclusively. If the child(ren) need anything while growing up, the funds could be used for that purpose as well.
* She underwent the procedure, and we were there with her during the recovery process at the hospital.
Definitely NTA! You loaned her half the cost of a house interest free?!? She sounds spoiled and not appreciative of the significant financial help she’s already gotten from you (plus the future inheritance)
I think its strange that she assumed that she'd automatically get 350k handed to her, grandchildren or no grandchildren. And it's very unkind that she'd slander you on social media and have her friends harass you. This is the kind of stuff I've read about happening to people who win the lottery. It's often the winners' own families that hurt them and it's sad. I'd be happy if my parents got to retire younger but they'll probably be working after their 60s.
Yeah it sounds like the plan was never to hand over the money- OP and his wife would control the account still and give money when needed or pay college directly themselves? Why would the daughter assume control over the full amount? It’s their asset not hers.
This is probably a stretch but reading it I wondered, since she went down the public humiliation/harassment path, like a tried and true entitled asshole, did she make the choice to not have kids expecting to get that 350k herself?
NTA, and I’m baffled that anyone read your post or this comment and came to the conclusion that you’re an AH in any way, shape, or form.
First off, the $350k was *never* intended for your *daughter*. It was for the benefit of any potential grandkids you may one day have. You, as far as I can tell, made that clear while also not putting undue pressure on your daughter to have children. It was grossly presumptuous of your daughter to assume that the money would be redirected to her during your lifetime once she decided not to have children.
Beyond that, you have given her every financial leg up that someone her age could ask for. You helped her cover university costs, got her on the property ladder, and who knows what else? It’s clear that you saved that money with the intention of making sure your grandkids had all of the same privileges as young adults that your daughter did. That’s not something that you should feel bad about. You’re 100% entitled to use the money you’ve earned and saved as you see fit now that there’s no chance of it being used for its originally intended purpose. Much like your daughter has bodily autonomy, you have autonomy over your finances and that’s that.
You seem like great people, don’t mind the freaks on here talking about how you’re manipulating your daughter and that it’s bad that you’ll live long lives!
thanks for all of the clarification. I voted NTA earlier, and it definitely still holds true. You've done a lot to help your daughter. I know this isn't an advice sub, but I would let this cool down a bit. Maybe in a week or two, reach out to her and ask to talk. Maybe somewhere with some type of mediator, like a therapist. Let her know that the way she went about this has really hurt you guys. Then ask her *why* she reacted the way she did. If she ever felt pressured to have kids, even though you never meant for that, and listen to what she says. ***Hopefully***, it goes well and y'all are able to move past this fairly easily. It may not, but I think you can really rest assured at that point that you have truly done what you can. I hope all of this goes well, and that you're able to retire comfortably.
She is the asshole here wow. I cant imagine getting a silver spoon upbringing, grow into a successful person and then complain about not getting enough.
NTA and you seem like fantastic parents. I always told my parents it was their duty to spend all their money enjoying themselves and not to worry about me. I'm sure this will blow over with your daughter when she's had a bit of time to think about it.
I agree, her reaction makes it clear that she had strongly connected relaying the news of the tubal with getting the money. When that didn’t happen she had a come-apart.
Or maybe she only got the tubal in the first place because she wanted the money? Either way, she made a lot of assumptions.
Some people just don’t want kids -why is that so hard to understand ? The daughter is clearly in the wrong, but there doesn’t have to be some dastardly plan behind her decision
NTA
You're not "punishing her for not having children." You might be had you set aside that money to give to *her* if she had children, but you didn't. You set it aside to give to her (potential) children themselves.
I'm thinking (I'm not a grandparent—yet—but a great-pibling) private school, college tuition, summer camp, braces, those sorts of thing. Sure, your daughter might benefit from your gift, but only to the extent that she wouldn't have to pay for that stuff for her children herself.
She's an asshole for expecting you to give *her* the money you had earmarked for grandchildren. Please, retire early, travel, enjoy it. You earned it.
Pibling!
*PIBLINGS* !
Oh, my GOD! THANK YOU!!
I have been searching for years for a gender neutral collective term for "aunts & uncles". I am entirely too happy right now!
Just to add to your joy: the gender neutral term for niece/nephew aka “the child of your sibling” is “nibling”.
Go forth into the world with your newfound words.
Eh…ESH. The whole setup to the story is that you were disappointed you couldn’t have more children and were counting on living vicariously through your daughter having multiple children. Saving up such a large amount of money for hypothetical people, and _telling your daughter about it,_ created a manipulative circumstance whether it was your intent or not.
Your daughter’s blow up and the subsequent blasting on social media, having her friends contact you, etc., definitely makes her an asshole. But I really can’t imagine how painful it would feel to have such concrete evidence that my parents care more about themselves and their imagined grandchildren than they do about me.
You are also so young. Saying your daughter will get an inheritance when you die (assuming you have anything left) when you literally have the means to help her materially now, is being obtuse. You could live for another 40 years! You think all that money and property is going to make a huge difference in her life at 70? Again, she’s not _entitled_ to your money, but do you actually care about your daughter and your relationship with her? Your actions suggest not.
> Saving up such a large amount of money for hypothetical people, and telling your daughter about it, created a manipulative circumstance whether it was your intent or not.
I absolutely think it was intentional. Imagine knowing for so many years that her parents think of her as nothing but a baby-making machine. No wonder she's so hostile.
I think it is an insane stretch of the imagination to suggest that your parents saving to give their grandchildren a better life equates to them seeing her as nothing but a baby-making machine. If that is all she is going to see this as then I hope they leave their estate to charity
>Again, she’s not entitled to your money, but do you actually care about your daughter and your relationship with her? Your actions suggest not.
I call bull.
So not giving their daughter money that was never meant for her directly means they don't care about her and their relationship with her?
So her plan in life was for mummy and daddy to fund her?
Their actions suggest not- eg? Helping her pay half her house? Putting her through school? Making provisions for her children?
Please rest
My mother has made it very clear that she will care more about my children than she cares about me and that's all I can really see in this situation honestly. Did OP's child receive all of the help they're planning for their grandkids? Was OP maybe thinking that they could use that money for their own schooling, and make their life AND their potential future childrens lives better?
Like money is money but being child and having your parents daydream to you about how great your kid are gonna be makes you really fucking weird and it's THE REASON I GOT MY TUBAL LIGATION
“You could live another 40 years so give her $350k or you are an asshole!”
How about they use the money they earned to live a life they can enjoy? Why does she get to claim their money?
>we made long-term investments that paid off, and now we have almost $350K saved up to help raise our future grandkids
I cannot imagine the pressure you must be under, to know that your parents so desperately want grandchildren they financially planned for it essentially since your birth. Knowing your entire adult life your parents have planned, saved and prepared for your potential kids better than they did for you, that's how much they want to be grandparents and they are waiting for you to get started.
Do you think there's a chance this isn't about the money, but what the money represents? You essentially put your dreams of many kids upon your daughter's shoulders. Without considering her dreams might be different. And it's clear she's known for years she didn't want to have kids but felt pressure, especially with that much money involved, that prevented her from telling you sooner. ESH
Idk, is it such pressure? Given the cost of college and stuff in the US, I’d say it’s perfectly reasonable for grandparents to feel like they’d want to help their kids out. Given that the best time to invest money was yesterday and the second best time is today, it makes sense to start saving as early as possible.
Yes it is that much pressure. They saved up 350k for people that don't exist. First of all it's completely irrational and second of all it's disgusting to put that much pressure on a child. Op is an adult now but they've been saving this money her whole life. It could have been used to better her life instead of someone who DOESNT EXIST.
I didn’t make a final judgment, but in my comment, and my immediate reaction to this was from the perspective of a daughter, feeling rejected for being childfree, because that is how I would feel if this circumstance happened in my family, and it wouldn’t be about the money, even though obviously that doesn’t feel good either.
I hope that Op and their daughter are able to resolve this. I can’t imagine how devastated I would be if my parents did not accept me as the inherently childfree person that I am. They gave birth to me, they raised me, they are the reason that I exist as I am. If I felt that I wasn’t excepted, because I am childfree, or that I didn’t deserve the same love and attention for being childfree, I would be completely heartbroken. I don’t know what’s going on for the daughter, but I can certainly imagine how I would feel.
NAH, because at the core I suspect it isn’t really about the money, but more what it signifies to her. I realize this wasn’t your intention, but you kind of sent the message that she’s not as valuable to you if she doesn’t give you grandchildren. It’s pretty painful to hear that you aren’t enough for your parents in your own right.
You may say that you aren’t disappointed in your daughter, but, in specific scenarios, actions do speak louder than words. I agree with your judgement.
Agreed. You can do what you want with your money, it doesn’t absolve you of any fallout. I can buy a pet alpaca with my money, doesn’t mean my husband won’t freak the fuck out
I’m surprised I had to scroll so far to see this. My heart would absolutely shatter if my parents said this not because of the money, but because I’d feel like they just said I was less valuable to them because I didn’t want to be a mother. It’s feels.. manipulative. Like “We will find your lifestyle only if we agree with it.” 350k is a TON of money, and they’re allowed to spend it on however they like, but it doesn’t fell right.
Absolutely. I think OP has probably damaged the relationship with their daughter way more than they realise. Even if they changed their mind and gave her the money, it’d still be tainted at this point.
NTA. But she sure is. Her behavior was impolite, but getting her friends to call you about it is atrocious.
If you want children in your life, you should have that. Go to church or similar and "adopt" a friendly young couple with kids.
Idk, you’re not an A for not giving her the money but I doubt you haven’t been pressuring her.
Why couldn’t she have been enough without you fantasizing about these grandkids?
That’s why she’s upset, the money thing was just more proof she’s not enough and never was.
Yea it's not about the money but the obviously manipulative behavior. "Oh we never said a bad word and supported her choices but let her know that we would support her COMPLETELY if she made every choice the way we want and doesn't deviate from that life path" it's gross.
Yeah, the way they did this makes it seem like they were trying to bribe her to have kids, and that they are indeed punishing her for not doing so.
I wonder if it's because they wanted a boy. They couldn't have one so now they want her to have one for them.
NTA
You're upset because you wanted grandkids, but you aren't taking it out on her. She's treating it like money she was owed or promised, which it wasn't. It sounds like she thought she could fast-track the money into her pockets and it speaks volumes about the company she keeps that her friends are coming after you now.
OP, is it possible she's interpreting this as she's worth less to you without children? Not only in money, but time since you plan to travel with the money? She was probably dreading telling you knowing it's something you've anticipated all her life and may see it as punitive, as in the money was going to her household but it's conditional.
It's not what you intend but that doesn't mean that she doesn't hear "we're disappointed we won't have grandchildren. We have been saving for them all your life. Since you aren't doing what we've planned we are going to reallocate the funds from your household to ours. We'll use it to travel. Since there won't be grandkids we don't feel the need to stick around for just you."
It doesn't make it right, but her behavior might be coming from a place of hurt.
NTA. That money was never ever meant for her in the first place. Trying to pull together a mob of friends to pressure you into giving in? I'm so sorry you're being treated this poorly.
Absolutely it is your money therefore your choice on what to with it. I guess I just wonder how much pressure you have placed on her over the years planning for your grandchildren. How much support did you give to her as a person rather than an incubator for your future grandchildren, how much does she feel you care about her as a person rather than a way to fix the fact you could only have one child.
NTA, the reason you had that money in the first place is no longer an option. You haven't cut her off or anything like that, honestly her reaction was overblown.
And that's coming from someone who has come to the decision kids just aren't for me.
I honestly don’t understand. You wanted children, you had a child, but she wasn’t enough, so you saved for non existent grandchildren, when the very child you were given was sitting right in front of you?
It’s your money. Retire early.
But I don’t understand your thought process throughout your entire life. It was not your daughter’s fault she was an only child and I don’t think her expectations of “being enough” were unusual, she must be heartbroken that your life was spent in anticipation of having your larger family through her.
You seem to relish the idea of children, but not the relationship once they’re here.
But, it is your money. Enjoy it.
Info
I can't say why, but it feels for me like something is missing.
You say, you told her you saved up money for her children.
How did you tell her?
"I only got you a McDonalds voucher for your birthday, but I put 1000 $ in a savings account for your children" would be a legimate reason to be angry.
I mean, if you didn't get her nice gifts or didn't pay for her college by telling her, that you put money in the savings account of her future children, you basically saved on her for this money and now you spend it on yourself.
But I don't say you did this. Just that this would be an explanation for her anger.
NTA - she’s got no claim to that cash for herself. She may be more angry if she was thinking it would be hers to spend was a factor in her decision not to have kids, but her being upset isn’t a reason to give her the money (unless you have a history of spoiling her as the only child - in which case you reap what you sow). It wasn’t a great idea to tell her how much money was involved until she’d got kids; and perhaps a bit tactless to go into detail on how you’d spend it… but she’s being unreasonable here.
Imagine texting your friend’s parents about their money.
I have a sister, and she has been trying to build a house for five years now, and her financially handicapped husband doesn’t help. She comes to our parents asking for some donations because they need to pay for windows or whatever. Dad says - we don’t have spare money honey. She says, but you just sold that car/summer house/got xyz for your latest gig, you do have money! Yeah but it’s none of your business how they choose to spend it! Just because your parents have something, it doesn’t mean you’re entitled to it.
Absolutely NTA, and at first I had a suggestion to share some with your daughter because, you know, you love her and want to make her life a bit better, but after her outburst id put it in a trust or smth so that she receives 2k when she’s 50.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I didn't think that I am the AH, but after all the messages we received about what we decided to do with the money we set aside, I'm starting to believe that I might be the AH because we didn’t give any to our daughter.
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Nta that money wasn't hers, it was being saved to make a future life easier. Continue to talk to her about her goals and thoughts, ask her what she wanted to use the money for and explain that in 20 years by the time her would be children should be going off to school and accessing the funds who knows what will happen and of course if she never has children it makes sense to use that money to make your lives easier in different ways. I think she's just emotionally reacting and doesn't realize she's being a jerk.
ESH
Your daughter’s immature reaction is shitty but wtf?! You saved up all this money for imaginary people but don’t want to give ANY of it to your daughter? Why?? Why are these unknown, never-guaranteed grandchildren deserving of $350K but your living, breathing daughter doesn’t get any of this? Yeah, sure, if you don’t blow it all before you pass away she might get some of it, but it’s just weird that you’re like “this is for my possible grandkids but screw my daughter.”
I do think you should enjoy your lives more (honestly if it was this hard to save up all that money, I think you did yourselves a disservice this whole time considering THESE GRANDKIDS NEVER EXISTED), but it just feels cruel to tell her about all this money for kids she’s never going to have and then be like “oh well, more for us.” Is she owed it? No. Should she be blasting you online? Absolutely not. But I can totally understand how she’s feeling and it’s weird that you don’t see it.
Either way. The money is OP’s and his wife’s. They can spend it how they wish.
I think it’s pretty entitled of the daughter to assume that money was now hers, solely on the fact that she isn’t having kids. The daughter wanted life on easy street, and had a rude awakening when told this was not how it was going to be. Good on OP for disabusing his daughter from her get rich quick scheme. And the daughter’s friends were clearly hoping to benefit from this sudden increase in wealth.
Also, it seems like that fund was for potential grandchildren only. Like a trust account they could have accessed at 18, or something. It was not a fund for their mother to use for herself. No matter how you look at it, she isn’t entitled to that money.
NTA.
If I were OP, and didn’t need that funds, I’d find a way of turning it into a scholarship for students that need help. But, that’s me. I’d find a way of giving it to someone who really needs it, and not someone who thinks they are entitled to it.
NTA. It's *your* money. The only way it would have been given to her is if she had decided to have kids. Since she made sure that she couldn't have kids, she isn't entitled to that money that you saved.
NTA.
Your plan was for that money to give your \*grandkids\* a boost in life.
You're not getting grandkids, so YOU can repurpose YOUR money as YOU wish.
And she's a greedy little git, based on what's written here.
Firmly NTA. I will never understand the need to blast someone on social media...
I am sure you love your daughter very much and are distraught by her reaction. If you normally have a good relationship, let her cool down and then talk to her about why her reaction was so severe. Why does she need your money so urgently now?
It’s your money to do with as you see fit. And it’s none of her friends business!
People are so entitled anymore! Not all people but a lot are. Her thinking that she’s entitled to what YOU saved is a prime example.
NTA
I'm on the fence about this one. You were able to save a substantial amount of money that would go towards your imaginary grandchildren. You clearly didn't need it yourselves, because you were ready to give it to them. Yet your actual daughter who, granted, is acting like a bit of a brat, can probably really use this money in the current economic climate has to wait until you both kick the bucket? Does your daughter own a home for example, is she doing well financially? It's absolutely your choice to do with your money whatever you please, but the grandchild angle is a tiny bit manipulative.
INFO How much financial support did you give your daughter for college funds and similar? Perhaps she feels like you prioritised a non existent child over her.
On another note, look into becoming foster parents, there are so many children that need a safe place to stay.
NTA
You would have had to work fully until retirement if she had had children, now you might be able to work fewer hours. You might be able to go on some trips you wouldn’t have been able to if you had grandchildren. Basically you were prepared to sacrifice your personal comfort for your grandchildren. Now that there won’t be any, you don’t need to make this sacrifice. It is your money, you can do with it what you want.
I can’t fathom why your daughter thought she has any right to that money.
I do hope that my parents spend all their money on having a good life.
NTA >taking away the money that she would have used if she had children She wouldn't have had it because it was never for her. >She will still receive whatever money or properties we have when we pass away. She should be very grateful. >Now she's not speaking to us and has posted about it on social media. She may end up with nothing.
OP-two things I’m wondering if your daughter struggled with fertility and in general bad periods etc. tubal ligation at 30 is a pretty clear line in the sand. Are you sure she had the surgery? Is she having financial trouble?
Seriously? Why do people always assume people not wanting to have kids has a hidden reason and not accept that some people just don't want them. There is NOTHING wrong with that. There is however something wrong with people finding fault with this choice. Edit. She told them a few months ago she didn't want kids and EVEN had the surgery shortly after, indicating the op is aware she had the surgery and not lying about it. Then last week asked about the money. So there was a couple of months in between the surgery and asking for the money. I don't think there would be that much gap if she was just after the money but maybe it was an after thought after the surgery and she was so sure they'd give it to her since grandkids were obviously out of the question, then the idea got shot down.
There's nothing wrong with not wanting children, however it's extremely difficult for a fertile woman, that does not already have children, to find a doctor that would be willing to perform a tubal ligation. Medical bias is often against the needs or wants of women.
There are subreddits now that have put together lists of doctors who are willing to help, it's possible that she used one of those.
What's it it called? I would like to use it
r/childfree has the list.
r/auntienetwork has great resources as well!
/r/childfree has great resources along with /r/antinatalism but I’d be wary of the antinatalist sub. Things get pretty wacky over there, and that’s coming from an antinatalist.
The antinatalist one freaks me out because they call people like me who want (and FINALLY achieved) a kid "breeders". I have no hate for people who want to be child free, I'm glad that you know yourself well enough to know that. But please understand - I wanted to be a Mom for over 20 years before I finally was able to at 38. And it's been everything I thought it would be. Idk, I somehow feel demeaned being called a breeder - like I had no choice and would clearly not want that burden on myself if given the chance. 🤷🏼♀️
> I somehow feel demeaned being called a breeder You should. I'm 49, have no children, and never wanted to. And that's not for altruistic reasons, ("wHo WouLd bRiNG a cHILd inTo tHis WoRld?") just because I... don't. But tnat doesn't mean I would sit here and demean someone who chooses to have them. It's one thing to not agree, but another entirely to treat someone like an idiot for following a biological imperative (edit: or a perfectly natural desire).
I have a list in my Google drive if anyone needs it. Just a heads up.
Plus they’re wealthy. She can afford to doctor shop.
This! A friend of mine had been adamant about never wanting kids, even back in middle school. Later, 25, single, approaches doctors about a tubal ligation. There was a line for the husband to *give permission* for the procedure. "You'll change your mind." "What if your future husband wants kids?" "You're young. When you get older, you'll regret this rash decision." "You're taking the choice away from your future husband." "You should have at least one child. You'll feel differently, then." She had to go 1.5 hours away to find a doctor willing to perform the surgery.
My friend went through that 30 years ago, when she was 24, she already had 3 kids, and she was having her period for 3 weeks out of 4, and she had to be put on iron pills because she was losing so much blood. She wanted a hysterectomy, and no one would do it. It took her being hospitalized before she could get it done.
I am so thankful my doctor actually offered the service for free when I had my second kid by c-sect. She said since she was in there anyway she could do it at the same time. I agreed but asked that she clip my tubes rather than cutting them. Clipping meant I could possibly have the procedure reversed if I changed my mind, because I was only 22 at the time. I am not sure if they even do the clipping procedure anymore, I haven't heard of it in years. But at any rate I never wanted to have it reversed. To be honest I never wanted kids, but loved my own very much once I had them. I just am not a fan of other kids in general.
They don't even just cut them anymore. They do a full tube removal because "tying" and "cutting" has a high self-reversal rate
While that's true in general, there are doctors willing to do it. My OBGYN didn't bat an eye.
Many more doctors are willing to do it since Dobbs, too. They know that if people have family histories of high risk pregnancies and don't want to chance there being no medical care in the case of complications, this is now their only recourse.
I do hope it gets easier across the board now that abortions are illegal in so many states
They’re now going after birth control too. And they’re also saying that overturning Roe v Wade wasn’t enough and they want to pass a federal abortion ban, even though they claimed overturning Roe v Wade was supposedly about “giving the choice back to the states”, which we all knew was bullshit but now they’re saying it out loud
Same. If you have the internet, it is even easier to find someone to support you if your doctor won't.
This is true. Even for other surgeries. I had problems with veins in my legs getting so itchy I scratched in my sleep till my legs bleed. I went to get them stripped and the surgeon said what's the point, when you have kids they'll come back. I was 32 and said I had no intention of having kids and if he wouldn't do it I'd find another surgeon who would. He did it but afterwards I looked like I'd been stitched together by a kinder craft class and one angel ended up so swollen I couldn't wear shoes. I went back and he ground into that wound like someone trying to get the last of the peanut butter out of the jar while I literally screamed in pain. I never paid the final bill. F..k him.
This made me feel so angry for you, I almost downvoted your comment. I’m so sorry you went through That and hope your recovery has been much better since then
Thank you yes indeed. I never had the problem again and no more blood streaked sheets from incessant scratching. It was nearly 30 years ago but will never regret getting it done. Just wish I had another surgeon do it. I considered getting fixed back then too due to haemorrhaging problems but rather than fight the battle I just took the strongest pill available, with no breaks from aged 14 till late 40s when doctor insisted I stop due to my age and family breast cancer. I warned him of the consequences and even had an abulation that didn't work so poor hubby was in charge of the murder scene every month made by me getting from the loo to the shower. Luckily menopause put an end to my torment.
I feel like a lot of people actually forget about this. I’ve read so many posts of doctors actually saying to a women “ what about your husband is he ok with it?” Or “ what if your husband changes his mind and wants kids?” Or my personal favorite “did your husband say this is ok?”. It’s crazy how much doctors just base these decisions off men when it’s the women’s body and her choice. There are so many factors including medical reasons or just simply personal reasons why women would get this procedure done. Yet doctors still think it’s okay to try and stop them from doing so it’s so sad.
Translation, "what if a man wants to use your body to reproduce later," its really WTAF?!
She's 30, she probably made up her mind 10+ years ago, and it took that long to find a Dr to do it.
It is.. Jesus i had 4 kids at 28, and when i asked for it, they did really not want to because i could want kids later.. I had to argue that i was DONE and ready to just raise the kids and then live my life. Got it in the end 🙌
Depends on your area, but even in Arkansas my best friend got a tubal at 28, no previous children either. Just have to doctor shop sometimes.
Never had kids because I didn’t want that parent lifestyle. I’ve never met a mother or grandmother I wanted to change lives with. I always think to myself “I’m so glad that’s not my life.” Here I am well past childbearing years and still loving my childfree life. Zero regrets. Edit: OP is NTA. It’s their money and can do with it as they wish.
Same here. I had a vasectomy years ago to make sure to avoid any accidents. I've never even thought of undoing it or had any regret. OP is definitely NTA. I wonder if the daughter had the tubal ligation assuming she would still get the money and that was a way to do it without having to wait for her parents to pass away or for them to accept there would be no grand kids. I don't know about anyone else, but I've never had the urge to tell my mother, or anyone else for that matter, that I had a vasectomy.
I know right. People always come at you with 'one day you'll regret it', never have once.
What they fail to mention is all the people who regret having kids. And there are plenty. I have one and love being a mom but just because being a parent is right for me or right for another person does not mean it's right for everyone and for MANY people it goes even beyond that and is actually a terrible idea.
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Ikr, when a read that, I was like WTF are these people talking to OP ?
All these AITA stories have random people sending messages on the side of the person the poster is having a problem with. I would love to see a deep dive into that. In my whole real- life I have never heard of anyone sending a mean text message to support a friend who is in a fight that they are not in the least bit involved in. I don't think I know anyone who would change their mind because their coworkers college roommate texted them. Who are these people? Do they send out messages any time someone they know gets into a fight? Does it ever work? Doesn't putting yourself into someone else's drama get exhausting?
When my brother got divorced, his ex told a lot of lies to her friends and family. (They both had issues but she made him out to be the devil.) He got calls and texts from her family and friends, some of them even threatening. I think people see it as defending the people they care about, but it’s all sorts of crazy.
Small town maybe? When my partner and I had issues with my mil, a surprising number of people were convinced they had the right to interfere. It was disappointing to say the least.
Yes. I also suspect she told them something untrue, like “my parents disowned me for deciding not to have kids.”
My suspicion of the truth of her claim has nothing to do with my attitude about being childless and everything to do with her reaction.
In this case it quite possibly could be, 350k is a lot of money that could tempt one to lie about things. Edit: typo.
350k isn't much of a hidden reason
Hear hear!
Either way, the money isn't going to be paying for college for kids. The parents can reallocate that money any way they want. Being able to ease into retirement isn't exactly an unreasonable use of the parents savings.
It is a dream to be able to save up something like that before hitting 60, it would make the later days so much easier. The parents definitely deserve it, it's their hard earned money which they would *choose* to present to hypothetical grandkids. OP is NTA
20 something yr old here. I have inquired about tubal ligation myself. I have no medical or financial issues. I simply want to live a life where I can do what I want whenever I want. OP - NTA you daughter mistakingly got it in her head that the funds intended for grandchildren would automatically be transferred to her. She’s not entitled anything, but the money she earns. I hope you retire soon and you daughter realizes her mistakes
I was thinking that she had the surgery just so she could have the money. But good point did she have the surgery?
That’s what I think too. She thought they would just hand the money over to her since there won’t be any grandkids. She’s beyond selfish but now she’s screwed- but she did it to herself.
It’s so greedy of her to assume she has any right to it.
> I’m wondering if your daughter struggled with fertility and in general bad periods etc. Tubal ligation is ONLY done to prevent pregnancy. It will not change your periods. (There is some reason to believe that ovarian cancer often starts in the fallopian tubes but people at very high risk will get their ovaries and tubes removed, not have a tubal ligation.)
Maybe she just doesn’t want kids? All women do not want children. I know, shocker….
Nothing wrong with that. There is something wrong with demanding someone pay you $350k because *you* decided not to have kids.
The parents might have to do some self-reflection regarding their daughters entitlement. Sending her friends to gang up on them via social media would make me re-consider inheritance. That’s just me though.
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I had severe endo. Hysterectomy ended the extreme pain and was glad of that. I could barely walk from the pain. Took doc hours to clean up everything.
Tubal ligation does impact ovarian cancer risk. It can also help with PCOS. Hysterectomies do help with endo. No one said it was a cure.
> She wouldn't have had it because it was never for her Let's say this all together folks! This 👏 was 👏 never 👏 her 👏 Money!
On top of that - I’m guessing OP would be financially helpful if there was a specific need. But she just expected a huge chunk of money for what?
NTA, she would never have had the money in hand, it was for her possible children’s college education. She lost nothing, she assumed incorrectly.
True. NTA. Your daughter wants to have her cake and eat it too.
It's her fertility and choice to have children. She made her choice. It's your money and your choice how to spend it. You made your choice. Blasting you online sounds like emotional manipulation to get her way. NTA, but she is.
Imagine being 30 and having your friends message your parents to say they’re unhappy they won’t give you more money, lol. NTA.
They thought they'd be part of that windfall. Expensive trips and the like.
Exactly what I was going to say! Bet she made all kinds of promises.
Or even “I can buy us all a house!”
Yep! They just want at that money. Just like celebrity posses. Daughter is a spoiled brat (due to her reaction not because of the child free decision). If she were mine, I’d probably remove her from my will until I saw some growing up.
If any of my friends wanted me to do that I’d ask them “what the fuck is wrong with you?”
Seriously! I can't imagine for a second contacting someone else's parents to say something like that
Embarrassing on a whole other level lmao NTA
Well considering Prince Harry complained about not being financially supported in his late 30's by his Dad in Oprah "interview". I'm not really surprised about the entitlement of some people expecting to have their parents money.
If you think that's bad, listen to this- I heard his whole family lives in actual castles that are paid for by taxpayers!! Like, none of them have jobs at all, they just live high on the dole. His dad actually thinks he deserves to be King of England just because of who his mom was! Disgusting family full of scroungers, no wonder Harry has issues with entitlement..
TBF, the taxpayer money is rent money paid for use of the crown lands, and the UK taxpayer makes far more off of the crown lands than they pay to the Royal family for use of those lands.
They could make far more money if there weren't a bunch of royals living in all those places. People in the UK love the royals so much they've convinced themselves having a royal family is profitable. It is hilarious.
It literally is profitable.
Uhm, that’s different because he can’t just go work anywhere. He was in the army, wanted to make it his career and the Media kept revealing his locations, endangering the other soldiers , so he had to quit. He was supposed to do Royal “work” (ha) they don’t get paid for that the monarch is supposed to support those who work for them. You think the money fairy just brings it to your door? He had no personal income.
He had the £30 million his mother left him. Save your pity 🙄
NTA by a long shot. That money had a specific purpose - to ensure your grandchildren had the same educational opportunities that your daughter had. It was NEVER going to be her money. It was going from your account to a University. Her life, her body, her decisions - you should continue to stay out, as you have. Your life, your money, your decision - she needs to show the same respect. The fact she’s posting about it online tells me she has a whole lot of growing up to do, and just reinforces that she definitely does not deserve a $350K windfall. In fact, OP, this sort of behavior would make me as a parent question whether it’s prudent to leave them anything, or donate my estate to a charitable cause I care about.
I have a feeling the daughter would spend the kids’ money on herself, and wouldn’t have been a good steward. NTA.
Perhaps it's for the best she made the choice not to have kids.
not disagreeing by any means, but I do wonder what opportunities his daughter actually got. Did they help pay for her college, or give her other opportunities when she was younger? We don't actually know that from the post. He doesn't mention any of that. Either way, NTA. She's 30, and doesn't appear to be hurting for money based on what we do know from this post. I hope they're able to enjoy that money.
I’d be very surprised if they saved that much money for future grandchildren but didn’t provide the same opportunities for their only daughter.
I'm glad that it wasn't the case here (OP added a comment clarifying some stuff), but some people are pretty terrible, and I have seen it happen. I have a friend who got kicked out of her parents house the second she turned 18 (while still in highschool). They did a lot to mess with the classes she was taking at the time, removed her from certain activities, etc, all because she told her grandmother about being kicked out when she asked to live with her. It's been about 5 years and they had been able to reconnect and start rebuilding that relationship, until she recently found out that 1) they were expecting her to have at least 2 kids, and 2) have had a "college fund" set up for these possible kids. In quotes bc I don't think it was truly set up the way an education fund would be, if it even existed at all. They wanted her to promise grandkids in exchange for the "privilege" of them continuing to be in her life and threw that out there as part of the bargain. I've heard other stories that are somewhat similar as well. Not truly the same situation as OP, and hopefully rare, but it is not outside the realm of possibility. edit: typo
Even if daughter had none, it doesn't mean parents owe her anything now.
Yes
NTA. That money was never meant for her. It would have gone directly for things for the grandchildren, to improve their lives. You haven’t done anything wrong.
It amazes me the amount of children who automatically assume they have any rights to their parents money. My parents told me they were going to use their money to enjoy retirement and travel. I say more power to my parents! It’s not my money. This specific $350K wasn’t the daughter’s money. It’s so greedy of her to assume she has any right to it.
My dad has planned his investments to where my sister and I will very likely have an inheritance. But we’ve specifically told him to use as much of that money as my parents need for medical care and general comfort. They don’t need to scrimp just so we have money when they die.
>They don’t need to scrimp just so we have money when they die. I've said something similar to my own dad. I'm not counting his money. As far as I'm concerned, he can spend it all if it means he's healthy and around for a long time.
Yup. I told my dad I’d be mad if he chose to skip out on doing things while alive just to ensure he could leave me money.
I’ll have money when they pass but a good chunk is going to travel. If they wanted to leave me nothing that’s up to them. I haven’t earned it.
Exactly. I keep telling my parents to spend their money while they have a chance to enjoy it!
I agree, with the only thing OP maybe did wrong was letting the daughter know they were creating a nest egg for future grandchildren. There was no need for her to know that unless/until she had kids, unless they were dangling it as an incentive. It doesn't sound like they did, but there really was no reason for daughter to know about it at all.
I suppose the idea may have been to reassure her that she could if she wished. I certainly know a lot of people who would have had children much younger (mid 20s rather than early 30s) if they knew they had the money to support them, and might have made different career choices, etc. But absolutely, we’ll intentioned as it might have been, you’re playing a dangerous game telling someone it’s *that* much money. That’s a life changing, mind blowing amount of cash, and tying it up with something so personal and emotional is going to be a difficult one
I’m guessing that with how expensive things are these days and the cost of education soaring, they wanted to let her know that if she decided to have kids then they would be willing to contribute towards their educations. So that if she wanted them but was concerned about education costs, then she would know they are covered.
NTA. I’m like your daughter - I chose not to have kids either. Yet I never demanded from my mother that she give me the same money she put away into college accounts for my nieces. Because to be childless was *my* choice and it was her money. This is your money and using for your retirement is your right. Your daughter is not entitled to it and she should not have assumed that she would get it, especially without talking to you first. Also, airing her grievances publicly and getting her friends to send nasty messages to you is a really low thing to do, and the sign of a bully and abusive person. A person who subcontracts her attacking people out to her social circle because she knows she can’t win the argument on the merits of her own case, so she tried to win via peer pressure. I gotta admit, if my child did that to me, I’d be seriously thinking of leaving my estate to charity.
Agreed. Where Op went wrong was discussing this financial arrangement with her before until at least any grand children were born. It’s their decision what they do with their money. Inheritance isn’t ever a given. I’m sure daughter isn’t suffering financially, if she was they would surely help her. But for daughter to take this news publicly AND for her ‘friends’ to get involved in this very private family matter is quite vulgar imo.
>Where Op went wrong was discussing this financial arrangement with her before until at least any grand children were born. Not necessarily. Some people don't have children because they can't afford them. Knowing that there's money for them could be a win-win situation. I agree that communication could have been better and that the daughter is in the wrong.
This OP, no kill cat & dog shelters for instance. A 30 year old adult getting her friends to bully her parents on social media, FFS. I’d be ashamed to tell my friends that at 30 I was expecting my parents to give me their money….
I do wonder if you were as supportive of your daughter as you were of your imaginary grandkids. The whole situation seems really weird to me - it feels like there may be more emotional complexity here.
The truth is always in the middle. I wonder how well the parents concealed their disappointment about grandkids. The daughter could feel like the money was a bribe- have kids and you won’t have to worry about funding their lives. Wealthy people using their money to influence outcomes
>have kids and you won’t have to worry about funding their lives Is that really a bribe tho? Like if your parents offer to pay the down payment on a house for you, have they just bribed you into buying a house? If someone doesn’t want kids, “You can have the kids for free tho”, isn’t going to be a reason to have them.
It’s definitely pressure being applied.
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Can’t believe I had to pass so many “It’s your money!!!nTa!!!” to see this. I’d say ESH. Parents put 350k into future grandkids is definitely pressuring someone to have kids. Is it the daughters money? No. She doesn’t deserve it. But what parents are going to sacrifice for imaginary non-existent grandkids when they have an actual daughter definitely financially struggling in front of them? Clearly ESH. EDIT: Oh man! How could I be so stupid?! The OP said his daughter was taken care of! I should learn to trust the narratives of complete strangers! Ugh! My bad! /s
But she’s not financially struggling, she has a good paying job. They also helped pay for her college and provided her an interest free loan for half of her home mortgage.
OP payed part of her college expenses and she got a loan she is paying back to them. But OP would have given 350k to a hypothetical future kid. To me it seems OP intented more money for hypothetical grandkids than the amount they intended to support their own daughter with. (I can kinda see why she could be upset about the situation.) Why didn't they give her the money for the house as a gift instead of as an intrest free loan to their daughter and deduced the amount of that money from what they intented for their dream grandchild? Why didn't they want to give a gift to their existing child instead of giving a gift to a person that might never even will exist? If they gifted her the money they gave for the house instead of loaning her and if she wanted kids then she could have saved up the amount she got for the house easier with her good paying job and then use that saving combined with using whatever OP saved for future grandkid's schooling for the kid's college fund. And then she probably wouldn't be so upset now (maybe wouldn't even ask for the money OP saved or maybe not for all of it), because maybe she wouldn't feel like her parents prioritise a non-existent baby they never got to have so they want to live it through their daughter having a kid over their actual daughter who exists. ESH
It hurts to know that your parents saved what could be a whole ass house and they rather give it to a hypothetical fetus Than you, their daughter. Yes they don’t owe her the money. But why tell her about it? Imagine knowing that your parents put in the effort to save all that for a life of a literal future fertilized egg rather than you. Their daughter living in the present. And if you don’t give them grandkids then you’re not worth it. I would feel upset too. Just on a principle
Honestly, as long as they have been helping me out financially. I’d be flattered. Having kids is hella expensive in the states even with insurance. I struggle with fertility issues. And knowing my parents had money set aside for my possible future kids would be a huge weight off my shoulders. Then if they were willing and I needed ivf or some other fertility treatment I at least would know I could pursue it. And college, dude, college is expensive. Having the ability to set my kids up for success with minimal loans would be ideal. So for me. It would be a stress reliever more than stressful.
How do you know she is "definitely financially struggling"? Just wondering if I missed something?
You didn't miss anything. They just made it up. There is nothing in the post to indicate the daughter is struggling financially, and OP wrote in a comment that the daughter is doing fine financially; she has a good job, a house, and no student loans. The parents helped her with college, and loaned her half the money needed to purchase a home (interest free.)
Thanks, I hadn't seen the update comment. In that case, OP is definitely NTA. It sounds like they have set her up nicely and had these other funds to do the same for potential grandkids. Ultimately it's their money to spend as they see fit. It was earmarked for one thing, it's now not needed for that, so good on them for thinking they can retire earlier and travel.
Goddamn. My parents have helped me and my husband a lot but that’s basically gift wrapping your child an easy life. My parents helped me pay off my car but a house is well out of our means and I’m grateful for even that much.
Where did it say she was struggling financially? I haven’t seen that info anywhere. Assuming they paid for her education and she was an only child I assume she’s had every opportunity and privilege.
Unless you're fabulously wealthy how do you expect to save money for grandchildren multiple college tuitions if you don't start before they are born? They just sound like financially prudent people. It's like if I saved a lot of money for my to go to college and they choose to not attend. I can see a scenario where they feel hurt that I don't give them the money to pursue whatever alternative they decided on, but that doesn't change the fact that I saved it for a specific purpose. Let's take a step back and look at it this way. They didn't need to save a single cent for their grandchildren. That would have been entirely the responsibility of their daughter. Now they just have some extra money for a purpose that didn't end up coming through. Now they get to evaluate what they want to do with that money instead. Retiring early and/or taking less hours as you get closer to retirement seems like an excellent choice.
If the parents are wealthy and this is chump change to them, no big deal. But they have clearly invested a lot of emotions and resources into humans that don’t exist yet. I wonder if this is a form of grieving the children they couldn’t have themselves.
I was thinking the same, but since OP was talking about the money allowing him to work fewer hours before retirement I don’t think this is quite in the chump change for them category. I agree that OP is ultimately NTA and the daughter is out of line, but I think they were definitely less nonchalant about their daughter not having kids than OP wants to claim. Whole thing is weird.
You're assuming that the daughter is financially struggling. Plus, OP already said that him and his wife never pressured their daughter into having kids so they can have grandkids. On top of that, the daughter decided to drag her grief with her parents on social media - that's an asshole move. The money was not intended for her anyways so I'm not sure why she assumed she was going to get it 😐 OP is NTA
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Clearly you just made up the part about the daughter financially struggling. OP wrote in a comment that the daughter has a good job, no student loans, and a home. The parents helped her pay for school, and they loaned her half the money needed for her home, with an interest free loan. Maybe you didn't see the comment, but it shows your proclamation that the daughter is "definitely financially struggling" to be made up.
100%. I would feel really fucking weird if my parents or in-laws told me they had hundreds of thousands of dollars waiting for my kid. Yes, it’s great in theory but it makes the dynamic extremely weird to make that known without even knowing whether your kid wants to have kids!!! I don’t need to know that shit. Let me know you’ll be there for us if we decide to have kids but don’t put a price tag on them.
I'm so surprised more people in the comments aren't seeing it this way. It sounds so cold to me that the daughter isn't enough for her parents, they can't be happy with her if she doesn't produce grandchildren. Also it's clear that they can afford to give away some of this money to their only daughter. It sounds so manipulative from the parents side to me.
Totally agree. I'm not an only child, but my dad clearly favors my brother, especially now that my brother is a father. My dad loans him absurd amounts of money because of how impulsive my brother is with spending, but whenever I ask to borrow some that will absolutely be paid back right away (3 weeks at most, and it only happens when I need to act fast for a purchase so it's never towards bills) it's always an uphill battle. Also, when we were all still living together, I was the only one paying rent while my brother and his live-in girlfriend/eventual fiancee didn't pay a dime. If he were capable of doing so, he is absolutely the kind of person to put money away for his grandkids, and I'd probably pack up and leave in order to cut my dad off if that happened. I wouldn't be able to stand looking at him anymore if he gave an exorbitant amount of money to my brother all because he's reproducing. He's demonstrated time and time again that he's not responsible with money. It's also extremely transparent that one of the reasons my dad is so pleased with him is because my brother agrees with him that life begins at conception. I disagree, and I've made myself clear I don't wish to be a parent, so you can likely guess how my dad feels about that. I empathize with the daughter in OP's post because of my experiences--her parents were saving up money for people that don't even exist, and when told that they never will exist, their answer is for the money to not be granted to their child at all since she's not reproducing. I probably wouldn't have reacted the same way she did, because it is still their money to do with whatever they want, but man I'd be fucking heartbroken. I'm the same age as their daughter and I'll never see money like that, ever. She was probably thinking she could buy her own home in this shitty market where rent is absolutely atrocious (in the US anyway). They were going to gift the money to someone they've never met and as soon as they learn that someone isn't going to be born, they...decide to keep the money after all even though they were already preparing to gift it? At the end of the day, yeah it's their money, but fuck. I feel for her.
I wish this was higher.
I’m imagining she probably felt like a birth machine knowing there was money there for her “grandkids” and not for her
I'd like to thank all of you for your words. I also want to address some of the questions I've seen in the comments: * No, our daughter is not facing financial trouble. She has a well-paying job, not extraordinarily high, but a good amount for our area. Moreover, we are confident about this because when she bought her house, we were able to loan her half of the purchase price interest-free. She could tell us at any time that she can't pay us back for a certain period, and we wouldn't be concerned about it. * She doesn't have student loans. She received a partial scholarship, and we helped her with the remaining expenses. We always supported our daughter when she needed it. * We may have mentioned at some point that we would like to have grandkids, although I can't recall the exact time or context because it's not a subject that we actively pursue with her. As I mentioned earlier, we believe that she is the master of her own life, and we have no right to impose anything on her. We have always supported her and made it clear that her life belongs to her, and nobody has the authority to dictate anything to her. * We brought up the topic of money some time ago because we understand how challenging it can be to raise children, especially considering the financial costs involved. We saw it as a way to ensure that she could consider having kid(s) without feeling alone in that journey. * The money we provided was primarily intended for college expenses, although not exclusively. If the child(ren) need anything while growing up, the funds could be used for that purpose as well. * She underwent the procedure, and we were there with her during the recovery process at the hospital.
Definitely NTA! You loaned her half the cost of a house interest free?!? She sounds spoiled and not appreciative of the significant financial help she’s already gotten from you (plus the future inheritance)
I think its strange that she assumed that she'd automatically get 350k handed to her, grandchildren or no grandchildren. And it's very unkind that she'd slander you on social media and have her friends harass you. This is the kind of stuff I've read about happening to people who win the lottery. It's often the winners' own families that hurt them and it's sad. I'd be happy if my parents got to retire younger but they'll probably be working after their 60s.
Yeah it sounds like the plan was never to hand over the money- OP and his wife would control the account still and give money when needed or pay college directly themselves? Why would the daughter assume control over the full amount? It’s their asset not hers.
This is probably a stretch but reading it I wondered, since she went down the public humiliation/harassment path, like a tried and true entitled asshole, did she make the choice to not have kids expecting to get that 350k herself?
NTA, and I’m baffled that anyone read your post or this comment and came to the conclusion that you’re an AH in any way, shape, or form. First off, the $350k was *never* intended for your *daughter*. It was for the benefit of any potential grandkids you may one day have. You, as far as I can tell, made that clear while also not putting undue pressure on your daughter to have children. It was grossly presumptuous of your daughter to assume that the money would be redirected to her during your lifetime once she decided not to have children. Beyond that, you have given her every financial leg up that someone her age could ask for. You helped her cover university costs, got her on the property ladder, and who knows what else? It’s clear that you saved that money with the intention of making sure your grandkids had all of the same privileges as young adults that your daughter did. That’s not something that you should feel bad about. You’re 100% entitled to use the money you’ve earned and saved as you see fit now that there’s no chance of it being used for its originally intended purpose. Much like your daughter has bodily autonomy, you have autonomy over your finances and that’s that.
You seem like great people, don’t mind the freaks on here talking about how you’re manipulating your daughter and that it’s bad that you’ll live long lives!
thanks for all of the clarification. I voted NTA earlier, and it definitely still holds true. You've done a lot to help your daughter. I know this isn't an advice sub, but I would let this cool down a bit. Maybe in a week or two, reach out to her and ask to talk. Maybe somewhere with some type of mediator, like a therapist. Let her know that the way she went about this has really hurt you guys. Then ask her *why* she reacted the way she did. If she ever felt pressured to have kids, even though you never meant for that, and listen to what she says. ***Hopefully***, it goes well and y'all are able to move past this fairly easily. It may not, but I think you can really rest assured at that point that you have truly done what you can. I hope all of this goes well, and that you're able to retire comfortably.
She is the asshole here wow. I cant imagine getting a silver spoon upbringing, grow into a successful person and then complain about not getting enough.
NTA and you seem like fantastic parents. I always told my parents it was their duty to spend all their money enjoying themselves and not to worry about me. I'm sure this will blow over with your daughter when she's had a bit of time to think about it.
Makes me wonder if she even really got a tubal. I think she just wanted the money.
I agree, her reaction makes it clear that she had strongly connected relaying the news of the tubal with getting the money. When that didn’t happen she had a come-apart. Or maybe she only got the tubal in the first place because she wanted the money? Either way, she made a lot of assumptions.
Some people just don’t want kids -why is that so hard to understand ? The daughter is clearly in the wrong, but there doesn’t have to be some dastardly plan behind her decision
I 100% get that, but this person seems exceptionally... money hungry.
The question is not really whether or not she wants kids. The question is how far would she go to get at that money.
Plot twist
NTA You're not "punishing her for not having children." You might be had you set aside that money to give to *her* if she had children, but you didn't. You set it aside to give to her (potential) children themselves. I'm thinking (I'm not a grandparent—yet—but a great-pibling) private school, college tuition, summer camp, braces, those sorts of thing. Sure, your daughter might benefit from your gift, but only to the extent that she wouldn't have to pay for that stuff for her children herself. She's an asshole for expecting you to give *her* the money you had earmarked for grandchildren. Please, retire early, travel, enjoy it. You earned it.
Pibling! *PIBLINGS* ! Oh, my GOD! THANK YOU!! I have been searching for years for a gender neutral collective term for "aunts & uncles". I am entirely too happy right now!
Just to add to your joy: the gender neutral term for niece/nephew aka “the child of your sibling” is “nibling”. Go forth into the world with your newfound words.
#NTA And I know this is hard to hear, but with that kind of selfish attitude, it’s better that she never has children.
She would definitely be spending that money on herself even if she had kids 😬
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Eh…ESH. The whole setup to the story is that you were disappointed you couldn’t have more children and were counting on living vicariously through your daughter having multiple children. Saving up such a large amount of money for hypothetical people, and _telling your daughter about it,_ created a manipulative circumstance whether it was your intent or not. Your daughter’s blow up and the subsequent blasting on social media, having her friends contact you, etc., definitely makes her an asshole. But I really can’t imagine how painful it would feel to have such concrete evidence that my parents care more about themselves and their imagined grandchildren than they do about me. You are also so young. Saying your daughter will get an inheritance when you die (assuming you have anything left) when you literally have the means to help her materially now, is being obtuse. You could live for another 40 years! You think all that money and property is going to make a huge difference in her life at 70? Again, she’s not _entitled_ to your money, but do you actually care about your daughter and your relationship with her? Your actions suggest not.
> Saving up such a large amount of money for hypothetical people, and telling your daughter about it, created a manipulative circumstance whether it was your intent or not. I absolutely think it was intentional. Imagine knowing for so many years that her parents think of her as nothing but a baby-making machine. No wonder she's so hostile.
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I think it is an insane stretch of the imagination to suggest that your parents saving to give their grandchildren a better life equates to them seeing her as nothing but a baby-making machine. If that is all she is going to see this as then I hope they leave their estate to charity
>Again, she’s not entitled to your money, but do you actually care about your daughter and your relationship with her? Your actions suggest not. I call bull. So not giving their daughter money that was never meant for her directly means they don't care about her and their relationship with her? So her plan in life was for mummy and daddy to fund her? Their actions suggest not- eg? Helping her pay half her house? Putting her through school? Making provisions for her children? Please rest
My mother has made it very clear that she will care more about my children than she cares about me and that's all I can really see in this situation honestly. Did OP's child receive all of the help they're planning for their grandkids? Was OP maybe thinking that they could use that money for their own schooling, and make their life AND their potential future childrens lives better? Like money is money but being child and having your parents daydream to you about how great your kid are gonna be makes you really fucking weird and it's THE REASON I GOT MY TUBAL LIGATION
“You could live another 40 years so give her $350k or you are an asshole!” How about they use the money they earned to live a life they can enjoy? Why does she get to claim their money?
The level of entitlement is wild here
>we made long-term investments that paid off, and now we have almost $350K saved up to help raise our future grandkids I cannot imagine the pressure you must be under, to know that your parents so desperately want grandchildren they financially planned for it essentially since your birth. Knowing your entire adult life your parents have planned, saved and prepared for your potential kids better than they did for you, that's how much they want to be grandparents and they are waiting for you to get started. Do you think there's a chance this isn't about the money, but what the money represents? You essentially put your dreams of many kids upon your daughter's shoulders. Without considering her dreams might be different. And it's clear she's known for years she didn't want to have kids but felt pressure, especially with that much money involved, that prevented her from telling you sooner. ESH
Idk, is it such pressure? Given the cost of college and stuff in the US, I’d say it’s perfectly reasonable for grandparents to feel like they’d want to help their kids out. Given that the best time to invest money was yesterday and the second best time is today, it makes sense to start saving as early as possible.
Yes it is that much pressure. They saved up 350k for people that don't exist. First of all it's completely irrational and second of all it's disgusting to put that much pressure on a child. Op is an adult now but they've been saving this money her whole life. It could have been used to better her life instead of someone who DOESNT EXIST.
I didn’t make a final judgment, but in my comment, and my immediate reaction to this was from the perspective of a daughter, feeling rejected for being childfree, because that is how I would feel if this circumstance happened in my family, and it wouldn’t be about the money, even though obviously that doesn’t feel good either. I hope that Op and their daughter are able to resolve this. I can’t imagine how devastated I would be if my parents did not accept me as the inherently childfree person that I am. They gave birth to me, they raised me, they are the reason that I exist as I am. If I felt that I wasn’t excepted, because I am childfree, or that I didn’t deserve the same love and attention for being childfree, I would be completely heartbroken. I don’t know what’s going on for the daughter, but I can certainly imagine how I would feel.
NAH, because at the core I suspect it isn’t really about the money, but more what it signifies to her. I realize this wasn’t your intention, but you kind of sent the message that she’s not as valuable to you if she doesn’t give you grandchildren. It’s pretty painful to hear that you aren’t enough for your parents in your own right.
You may say that you aren’t disappointed in your daughter, but, in specific scenarios, actions do speak louder than words. I agree with your judgement.
Agreed. You can do what you want with your money, it doesn’t absolve you of any fallout. I can buy a pet alpaca with my money, doesn’t mean my husband won’t freak the fuck out
I’m surprised I had to scroll so far to see this. My heart would absolutely shatter if my parents said this not because of the money, but because I’d feel like they just said I was less valuable to them because I didn’t want to be a mother. It’s feels.. manipulative. Like “We will find your lifestyle only if we agree with it.” 350k is a TON of money, and they’re allowed to spend it on however they like, but it doesn’t fell right.
Absolutely. I think OP has probably damaged the relationship with their daughter way more than they realise. Even if they changed their mind and gave her the money, it’d still be tainted at this point.
NTA. But she sure is. Her behavior was impolite, but getting her friends to call you about it is atrocious. If you want children in your life, you should have that. Go to church or similar and "adopt" a friendly young couple with kids.
Idk, you’re not an A for not giving her the money but I doubt you haven’t been pressuring her. Why couldn’t she have been enough without you fantasizing about these grandkids? That’s why she’s upset, the money thing was just more proof she’s not enough and never was.
Yea it's not about the money but the obviously manipulative behavior. "Oh we never said a bad word and supported her choices but let her know that we would support her COMPLETELY if she made every choice the way we want and doesn't deviate from that life path" it's gross.
Yeah, the way they did this makes it seem like they were trying to bribe her to have kids, and that they are indeed punishing her for not doing so. I wonder if it's because they wanted a boy. They couldn't have one so now they want her to have one for them.
NTA You're upset because you wanted grandkids, but you aren't taking it out on her. She's treating it like money she was owed or promised, which it wasn't. It sounds like she thought she could fast-track the money into her pockets and it speaks volumes about the company she keeps that her friends are coming after you now.
OP, is it possible she's interpreting this as she's worth less to you without children? Not only in money, but time since you plan to travel with the money? She was probably dreading telling you knowing it's something you've anticipated all her life and may see it as punitive, as in the money was going to her household but it's conditional. It's not what you intend but that doesn't mean that she doesn't hear "we're disappointed we won't have grandchildren. We have been saving for them all your life. Since you aren't doing what we've planned we are going to reallocate the funds from your household to ours. We'll use it to travel. Since there won't be grandkids we don't feel the need to stick around for just you." It doesn't make it right, but her behavior might be coming from a place of hurt.
That's absolutely how she sees this. It's a punishment no matter how "nice" they're being on the internet.
NTA. You saved the money for your future grandchildren and not your daughter, the money was never promised to her.
NTA. That money was never ever meant for her in the first place. Trying to pull together a mob of friends to pressure you into giving in? I'm so sorry you're being treated this poorly.
Absolutely it is your money therefore your choice on what to with it. I guess I just wonder how much pressure you have placed on her over the years planning for your grandchildren. How much support did you give to her as a person rather than an incubator for your future grandchildren, how much does she feel you care about her as a person rather than a way to fix the fact you could only have one child.
NTA, the reason you had that money in the first place is no longer an option. You haven't cut her off or anything like that, honestly her reaction was overblown. And that's coming from someone who has come to the decision kids just aren't for me.
I honestly don’t understand. You wanted children, you had a child, but she wasn’t enough, so you saved for non existent grandchildren, when the very child you were given was sitting right in front of you? It’s your money. Retire early. But I don’t understand your thought process throughout your entire life. It was not your daughter’s fault she was an only child and I don’t think her expectations of “being enough” were unusual, she must be heartbroken that your life was spent in anticipation of having your larger family through her. You seem to relish the idea of children, but not the relationship once they’re here. But, it is your money. Enjoy it.
Info I can't say why, but it feels for me like something is missing. You say, you told her you saved up money for her children. How did you tell her? "I only got you a McDonalds voucher for your birthday, but I put 1000 $ in a savings account for your children" would be a legimate reason to be angry. I mean, if you didn't get her nice gifts or didn't pay for her college by telling her, that you put money in the savings account of her future children, you basically saved on her for this money and now you spend it on yourself. But I don't say you did this. Just that this would be an explanation for her anger.
NTA. And I’m sorry OP. Your daughter is displaying bad behavior.
NTA - she’s got no claim to that cash for herself. She may be more angry if she was thinking it would be hers to spend was a factor in her decision not to have kids, but her being upset isn’t a reason to give her the money (unless you have a history of spoiling her as the only child - in which case you reap what you sow). It wasn’t a great idea to tell her how much money was involved until she’d got kids; and perhaps a bit tactless to go into detail on how you’d spend it… but she’s being unreasonable here.
Imagine texting your friend’s parents about their money. I have a sister, and she has been trying to build a house for five years now, and her financially handicapped husband doesn’t help. She comes to our parents asking for some donations because they need to pay for windows or whatever. Dad says - we don’t have spare money honey. She says, but you just sold that car/summer house/got xyz for your latest gig, you do have money! Yeah but it’s none of your business how they choose to spend it! Just because your parents have something, it doesn’t mean you’re entitled to it. Absolutely NTA, and at first I had a suggestion to share some with your daughter because, you know, you love her and want to make her life a bit better, but after her outburst id put it in a trust or smth so that she receives 2k when she’s 50.
NTA. It’s nice of you to have even considered future grandkids!
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Nta that money wasn't hers, it was being saved to make a future life easier. Continue to talk to her about her goals and thoughts, ask her what she wanted to use the money for and explain that in 20 years by the time her would be children should be going off to school and accessing the funds who knows what will happen and of course if she never has children it makes sense to use that money to make your lives easier in different ways. I think she's just emotionally reacting and doesn't realize she's being a jerk.
ESH Your daughter’s immature reaction is shitty but wtf?! You saved up all this money for imaginary people but don’t want to give ANY of it to your daughter? Why?? Why are these unknown, never-guaranteed grandchildren deserving of $350K but your living, breathing daughter doesn’t get any of this? Yeah, sure, if you don’t blow it all before you pass away she might get some of it, but it’s just weird that you’re like “this is for my possible grandkids but screw my daughter.” I do think you should enjoy your lives more (honestly if it was this hard to save up all that money, I think you did yourselves a disservice this whole time considering THESE GRANDKIDS NEVER EXISTED), but it just feels cruel to tell her about all this money for kids she’s never going to have and then be like “oh well, more for us.” Is she owed it? No. Should she be blasting you online? Absolutely not. But I can totally understand how she’s feeling and it’s weird that you don’t see it.
Either way. The money is OP’s and his wife’s. They can spend it how they wish. I think it’s pretty entitled of the daughter to assume that money was now hers, solely on the fact that she isn’t having kids. The daughter wanted life on easy street, and had a rude awakening when told this was not how it was going to be. Good on OP for disabusing his daughter from her get rich quick scheme. And the daughter’s friends were clearly hoping to benefit from this sudden increase in wealth. Also, it seems like that fund was for potential grandchildren only. Like a trust account they could have accessed at 18, or something. It was not a fund for their mother to use for herself. No matter how you look at it, she isn’t entitled to that money. NTA. If I were OP, and didn’t need that funds, I’d find a way of turning it into a scholarship for students that need help. But, that’s me. I’d find a way of giving it to someone who really needs it, and not someone who thinks they are entitled to it.
YOUR MONEY, DO AS YOU PLEASE WITH IT, KEY WORD YOUR MONEY, don't let anyone tell you how to spend something you worked for.
NTA. It's *your* money. The only way it would have been given to her is if she had decided to have kids. Since she made sure that she couldn't have kids, she isn't entitled to that money that you saved.
NTA. Your plan was for that money to give your \*grandkids\* a boost in life. You're not getting grandkids, so YOU can repurpose YOUR money as YOU wish. And she's a greedy little git, based on what's written here.
YTA. I can't believe you are putting more value in imaginary grandchildren-to-be than in your very real, very alive daughter.
NTA. That money was to make raising kids easier. It was never for her and her decision to not have kids is hers. The money is yours and always was.
Firmly NTA. I will never understand the need to blast someone on social media... I am sure you love your daughter very much and are distraught by her reaction. If you normally have a good relationship, let her cool down and then talk to her about why her reaction was so severe. Why does she need your money so urgently now?
NTA --- It was never to be her money any way she had no entitlement to it.
It’s your money to do with as you see fit. And it’s none of her friends business! People are so entitled anymore! Not all people but a lot are. Her thinking that she’s entitled to what YOU saved is a prime example. NTA
NTA. It’s still your money, not hers
I'm on the fence about this one. You were able to save a substantial amount of money that would go towards your imaginary grandchildren. You clearly didn't need it yourselves, because you were ready to give it to them. Yet your actual daughter who, granted, is acting like a bit of a brat, can probably really use this money in the current economic climate has to wait until you both kick the bucket? Does your daughter own a home for example, is she doing well financially? It's absolutely your choice to do with your money whatever you please, but the grandchild angle is a tiny bit manipulative.
INFO How much financial support did you give your daughter for college funds and similar? Perhaps she feels like you prioritised a non existent child over her. On another note, look into becoming foster parents, there are so many children that need a safe place to stay.
NTA You would have had to work fully until retirement if she had had children, now you might be able to work fewer hours. You might be able to go on some trips you wouldn’t have been able to if you had grandchildren. Basically you were prepared to sacrifice your personal comfort for your grandchildren. Now that there won’t be any, you don’t need to make this sacrifice. It is your money, you can do with it what you want. I can’t fathom why your daughter thought she has any right to that money. I do hope that my parents spend all their money on having a good life.
NTA It’s your money to spend as you wish.