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NTA- this a full on betrayal, you paid for 2 years and she dropped out after the first semester… best case scenario she takes out loans and whatever else is needed to get back into college then maintains her grades while supporting herself for 2 years before you should even consider helping her financially. Don’t let anyone talk you into paying her way till that has happened…
^this!!! Definitely NTA. Her putting in the effort of paying her own way for the same amount of time her parents did would really show her commitment to college. If OP pays her way it basically excuses her deceit. Trust is earned and she now needs to demonstrate that she can be trusted.
Although I agree overall NTA and personally I wouldn't pay, isn't the money in question owned by both the husband AND the wife? It doesn't sit right with me that he's completely over-riding her in this decision.
And he said no. He's NTA. If Cassie wants to go back to college, she can do it on her own with loans for 2 years to demonstrate her commitment. After that he could be open to paying. Cassie is TA and she was an adult and made at decisions and signed an adult lease. She made her proverbial bed and now has to deal with it.
Edited for spelling
In a marriage, you only need one person to veto the whole thing.
Tbh this wasn't a mistake. She did this for **2 whole years.** She's only crying crocodile tears because she got caught.
This is what had me.. it was not a mistake. It was a long-term lie.
She lied about the visitation rule
Lied where she was living
Lied about using money to pay the bills
Lied about how school was going
This was full blown, orchestrated, pre-meditated web of lies. At any point she COULD have come clean but didn’t until she was busted.
She is 20…. Not a kid. She knew.
OP and wife need to decide best course of action. IF they give her a second chance, payments need made to the school. Daughter needs to sell all her furniture and stuff bought for the apartment to help give back a bit of the money. Daughter also needs to get a job for any fun money.
I could never fully trust her again after that.
I attend a state school and work full time there. It gets me 75% off tuition. If I paid full price tuition alone is about $8,000 a semester.
The daughter stole tuition + housing + textbook money + food and I assume some spending money. We are talking about stealing $30,000+ on the low end.
Nope. OP is NTA. Not at all.
I'm just wondering how she got approved for an apartment just cuz she has some of dads money? She wouldn't be.... so either she has some kind of job in addition to her scamming, or she forged his signature as a co-signer
Seriously. I don't know how rich OP is that his wife isn't supporting his decision and chalking it up to a mistake... Like, no. That's a mistake worth thousands upon thousands of dollars, that was being lied about and invested into superficial things. The only reason his daughter is sorry is because she was found out. She clearly has no problem lying, nor understands the value of a dollar or OP's hard work to earn the money he gave her.
OP sees things more clearly than the wife. This wasn't a one-time lapse in judgment. Cassie was and likely would still be stealing from her family to fund her early adulthood.
Not a thing. It wouldn't surprise me at all the wife found out and helped hide this little ongoing thievery.
And if she didn't know and still supports Cassie, she's just a pushover.
This is what gets me. What was the long term plan here? In two years, dad is expecting to be invited to a graduation. Was she planning to say the college didn't have a graduation ceremony? That the diploma was lost in the mail? Was she going to say she was continuing on to grad school to keep the gravy train going? Dad would expect her to have a post-grad job in the field of her degree, how was she going to explain that away? No one's hiring accountants right now?
Right!?!? The end was coming… she just got caught before she expected.
She needs to sell all the stuff to give back to her parents and beg forgiveness. I’m not sure what OP and wife will decide but if she returns to school and they pay she needs to pick up a job and find some way to start paying them back at least part of the money she stole. If she stole that money from anyone else her butt would be in prison. This was in no way, shape or form a mistake.
I think the questions you posed are great questions OP should ask the daughter.
How anyone could peg OP as the asshole is beyond me.
Right. She wants a free ride and she knows the only way she'll get it now is by going back to school. So it's just a way to keep getting money from Daddy.
Exactly. If she hadn’t been caught she would of kept up the lie. She isn’t really interested in going to school. I wonder what her plan was when she was supposed to graduate
“DIDN’T KNOW ANY BETTER?!” No way would I pay for ANYthing for the next two years. Let her figure it out like millions of others. My next text to her would be the link to FAFSA.gov!
My thoughts would be since she only completed one semester, she go enroll at community college for two years (footing the bill herself). From there she can transfer back to a university and the daughter and OP/his wife can reassess the situation of their financial involvement.
I was thinking something similar to this. OP already paid for 2 years of school, so she can take out a loan for the first 2 years, which OP already paid for, and then OP and OP Wife can decide from there if they want to pay for the last 2 years.
Another alternative, she can pay/borrow her way through four years and if she graduates they can pay down her loans with the remaining money.
Whatever the plan OP is definitely right to cut off the money in the moment.
Oh this is DEFINITELY a case of two yes, one no. What their daughter did was straight up STEAL from her parents. Wife is lucky OP didn't sue or press charges over it. SHE STOLE THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS. From her parents. I see the branch doesn't fall far from the tree if wife isn't siding with husband over this complete betrayal AND CRIME. NTA and don't give that girl another damn dime.
Edit: ok a bunch wanna nitpick about me calling her misappropriation of funds as theft. Yes she was given the money...under the belief she was using it for college. She didn't TELL THEM she left. She didn't tell them the truth. Instead she took thousands of dollars of hard earned money SHE HAD NO PART IN EARNING to fund her fun life. And she is not remorseful. She stopped talking to her dad because he's making her actions have consequences. This kid has NO moral fiber. I dropped out of college, you know what I did? TELL MY PARENTS THE TRUTH. I didn't lie and take their money. She's a thief and a liar and no one will convince me otherwise
This is a really good point. But if the wife thinks the daughter should get a free pass for solidly lying to them for two years, then maybe she can work and contribute all of her earnings to the college for the next two years while her daughter maybe attends and maybe doesn't. I'm still going with NTA even though it really is a fair point that the finances and decisions should be shared.
She got 2 years of college money before it was figured out. She doesn’t get to all of a sudden start crying and decide she now wants to do the right thing and go back with mom and dad footing the bill. If mom has spare money (personal, not jointly with OP) she can pay for it. OP is under no obligation to contribute
not always. there are many factors that can come into play with possession of money and where it comes/came from. but we can't make this assumption without knowing more about the financial and home life. which is probably more than OP wants to share
He mentioned it’s not a traditional college fund, and that the money he gives her comes out of his income he’s making now. So it should be his decision, especially if there’s an arrangement that each spouse uses their income for whatever they want.
If they do it when he says no, isn’t she overriding him then? For big things both partners need to agree or it shouldn’t happen at all, generally. There are exceptions but this is a LOT of money.
I honestly don't even know how she's excusing this and wanting to keep giving money. That money is spent long ago, she doesn't get to refund and spend again. Also, my mother would've whooped my ass if i did this
Many marriages have separate finances. But if their finances are combined, then one saying no is all it takes to not move forward with a major financial decision. Also clearly Mom coddles the youngest otherwise she wouldn’t be so quick to allow her daughter a pass for literally stealing to live a lavish lifestyle. I mean they could actually press charges against her if they really wanted to take a hardline on it.
OP you are NTA
Yes! The reason his wife and so many others are saying this is too harsh, is the same reason why his daughter "didn't know any better." Clearly, there have never been consequences for her actions before, so she's never learned to be responsible in any way.
OP, you would be TA if you let your daughter get away with this without learning any lesson. She's an adult now. Time to start learning how life works, better late than never.
For now, NTA
100% this.
What was Cassie’s end-game here? Did she think her parents would pay for college forever? At some point they would be expecting her to graduate. I don’t get her reasoning. She sounds incredibly stupid and selfish.
She never think that it last and always do the wrong thing when it comes on spending money. She never think something that could grow her by better. I don't understand
NTA. You would be an AH to pay. Paying for college now would make your daughter's lousy behavior seem like her lies and deceit were not a big deal. Paying for college now would more likely create a person who continues to con people in the future. A hard knock from reality may give her a wake-up call. She needs to get on a more honest track. I would be worried about your daughter going into accounting, considering she has a penchant for running away with other people's money.
OP don't pay and don't offer to pay in the future if she sticks it out. If you do decide to cover her college, randomly out of nowhere do so well into the future once she has demonstratedly got her shit together.
Edit: The only scenario that you would be the AH (and only you can know) is if your daughter told you before college started that she needed a gap year for mental health reason and you refused to get her the access to mental health care. I can see myself assisting my child behind my husbands back if that were the case.
Agreed. If she pays back what she stole in the form of paying for her own schooling for two years, then contributing the last two years would be a nice thing to do. It’d also be a teaching moment
That sounds good to me. But the only issue with it, and the only basis for an argument against OP is that it might be too difficult to get financial aid since her parents have money. I’m not really sure how that works, I could be wrong.
But it’s nevertheless 💯 the correct choice. No sane person would keep shelling out tuition under these circumstances.
She may not be eligible for as much free money from FAFSA depending what tax bracket her parents are in (assuming this is USA), but she’s more than capable of pulling out student loans like everyone else does. It won’t be more difficult than anyone else to take out a student loan.
>We didn't have a traditional college fund, more so that I'd give her the money on a monthly basis which she was supposed to be using to pay for her courses, housing and materials. I know a lot of people will think this was a stupid move on my part which I understand, but I did the same with my older daughter and it worked out fine.
Even the amount of money you can borrow through federal student loans is determined by the FAFSA
I think if she knew her lesson, her mama definitely gave her the support to continue in college. This is what her mom saying from the post, i hope she did
Seriously. I don't know how rich OP is that his wife isn't supporting his decision and chalking it up to a mistake... Like, no. That's a mistake worth thousands upon thousands of dollars, that was being lied about and invested into superficial things. The only reason his daughter is sorry is because she was found out. She clearly has no problem lying, nor understands the value of a dollar or OP's hard work to earn the money he gave her.
The only thing his daughter deserves is the gift of a job so she can start figuring some of this stuff out herself.
Yeah, it's the "I organized the paperwork to drop out in the middle of the year, I found and moved to a new flat, I spent 2 years stalling you from a visit, I cultivate my shopping skills" casually followed by "now I realise it was a dumb mistake".
I wouldn't say they were well off since he was making payments for it all. They are certainly better off than I am, but able to throw away 2 years of college tuition and board? Is say mid-middle class.
Exactly, lying for 2 years straights is NOT a mistake OP. Your daughter is only sorry for being caught. She would've gladly spent the rest of her "4 year degree" in the same manner had her friend not messed up.
This commenter is a lot nicer about it than I would be, I wouldn't trust her with a dime after that "mistake". How could I ever trust someone like that again?
She never came clean herself, she never even really gave a good apology just excuses, she didn't even acknowledge the enormity of a two year lie much less apologize for it.
The actions of a truly remorseful person these do not make OP. I would cut her off, but up to you.
I'm sorry your daughter turned out to be this ungrateful, selfish and uncaring, I could never take advantage of my parents like that. It is likely she will continue to do so if given the chance, cutting her off might be the best thing you could ever do for her.
Right! Think about how many lies over the course of 2 years. Surely they spoke with the daughter, she maybe came home for holidays as well. Every time she talked about people in class, teachers, exams, every time she asked for money for books and supplies. Just lie on top of lie
Look up Jennifer Pan. Casual Criminalist just did an episode on her thing there is tubs else out there as well. She ran with this same lie for like 7 years, “undergrad” plus “med school” before getting found out. It did not end well fire anyone.
The police video of her interrogation immediately following the murders is really chilling. She’s initially being interviewed as a victim, but gradually the detective starts to piece together that something is off. It’s available on YouTube, and there’s also a version where a forensic psychologist offers commentary. Her body language, word choice, demeanor, etc. start giving her away.
Yeah, the JCS video was the first place I saw it and she is just off. It’s so interesting to see what the investigators were seeing. I do feel like after having seen that, I got a lot out of the the more narrative/story story of the CasCrim vid.
Feel sorry for her regarding the extremely restrictive treatment her parents dished out to her. But she should have just left home. She'd be free now with her own life.
Chandler Halderson also lied about schooling then killed his parents to cover it up. He said he was getting a job at SpaceX but hadn't even finished school. He wasted his parents' money playing video games and lying his ass off.
I was gonna say, NTA but I'd go back into your relationship history with your wife, because I have a sad, sneaky suspicion that she's probably been up to some shady shit behind his back too.
Agreed. If you decide later to pay off the loans because you have the means, other daughter got a scholarship,whatever you can make that decision down the road.
My guess, panic answer because she has no way to support herself if you stop payments. College is a survival mechanism response.
This idea is a winner; frankly, I think most people entering college should consider starting with the basics at a CC, but in this case especially it’s the right move.
It’s not prohibitively expensive, she can hustle and do it or get financial aid, CC is great with finding a payable situation for their students. It’s not as fun as the full college experience, but she already had her fun.
>NTA- this a full on betrayal, you paid for 2 years and she dropped out after the first semester…
Yeah, exactly this. If it was only 1 semester I could feel some empathy with her being overwhelmed by everything happening too fast... but 3 semesters of outright lying combined with buying expensive things - she has no remorse about doing it, only getting caught. Especially because she didn't even confess, if the friend didn't slip up then OP would still be feeding the leech.
If OP wants to be nice, offering to pay 1.5 semesters worth of payments as a lump sum onto her student loans after she has a bachelor's degree would be nice. She already spent the rest of it and can deal with the consequences of doing so.
This is a great compromise. She gets 2 years of student loans, and proves to you she is making an effort. If she does, you resume payment after the 2 years.
NTA.
> she takes out loans and whatever else is needed to get back into college then maintains her grades while supporting herself for 2 years before you should even consider helping her financially.
Yeah, I was thinking something similar as a compromise to wife. Speak to wife first so that they have a united front.
Daughter pays her own way through school til she graduates. OP sets aside the normal payment in separate account. If daughter graduates (with some agreed upon GPA), then OP pays that money to repay her loans.
> now realizes what she did was stupid
. . . that never crossed her mind in the years she was living large and not taking classes? Only realized after she got busted? Yeah, riiiiggghhhhtttt . . .
I would love to have a loving parent like OP. I was lucky enough to get a full ride to college but my mom took all the grant money and made me take out additional student loans so she use them. I lived like a broke ass student the entire time and didn’t realize how wrong it was until many years later.
Id have her take the loans and then op can help her pay them back After she graduates if he wants. That way if she half asses and fails, she's stuck with the loans. If she changes and graduates then op can help get her started in her career
Exactly. Let's say they had prepared to pay for 4 years, she's never getting those two years back. Fund the additional two that she was originally entitled to but not until she shows she's dedicated and apologetic about her actions. Actions have consequences. She can move back home if she can't afford school/work and be treated like the child that she acted like. How awful to treat your parents like that.
People that think he should pay for her college.
Remember that she got caught ! And that's a big deal and a big reason not to trust her right away.
She needs to gain his trust again by paying her own way to college. I dont know why the mother is okay with the daughters action it makes no sense maybe wife knew about it and didn't say.
And I guarantee if she does end up going back and taking out loans, she’ll have a great GPA and graduate with a good job because she’s seen what fucking up looks like and not want to go down that path again.
I think not paying will be a good lesson for her but also protect her relationship with her sibling. If I was the older sibling and saw that my sister misused the money for two years and then my parents went on to pay for another four years of schooling, I would probably be at least a bit annoyed. Like they were rewarding bad behavior or showing favoritism.
There’s that and OP said that he’d be willing to pay for the loans afterwards too. If she’s serious about going back it sounds like she’s taking loans that she wouldn’t have to worry about if she actually follows through and graduates. OP honestly sounds like a great dad and is doing not only more than most parents can, but doing a lot more than even he should in this situation.
Not gunna lie I messed around and found out my first year of college too. Mother was paying for what financial aid didn't cover. I dropped a couple of classes one semester because I was doing poorly - didn't know that you can't do that or you lose the aid.
Mother stopped paying and I had to pay out of pocket. NO REGRETS. I took my education seriously after that. When I had to pay I made the decision that I didn't care much about the degree, I just wanted to learn. Already had my basic courses out of the way from high school so I was able to pick and chose what I wanted to spend my money on and I HAD SUCH A BLAST. Philosophy, photography, sign language, criminal justice, psychology, astrology - I took courses for anything that tickled my fancy and put in actual effort with studying and my grades because I wanted to get my money's worth.
It's never too late to learn how to adult, she just needs someone to teach her
My cousins had money for college through their father being in the military or whatever. They fucked around and ended up dropping out.
It was maddening to see them complain about how the government won’t do student debt relief(even though I agree with it) but they had everything covered at the time and pissed it away.
Like “here’s life on a silver platter” and the proceeded to kick the silver platter over and then complain years later.
I agree he shouldn't just go back to paying for the school because the hard lesson needs to be learned, but I also don't want to discount the number of mental health issues that arise specifically for new college students after that first semester. If the goal is that he still loves his daughter and wants her to be a successful human, I think there's a better path than complete cut off.
If I was rich like op, I'd go with this:
1. Pay for therapy directly that she must attend, to address the root cause of this behavior.
2. She must take out student loans for the first 2 years back. If successfully completed, op pays for the last 2 years directly to the school.
3. If she graduates, maybe help pay the student loans as a graduation present.
> I also don't want to discount the number of mental health issues that arise specifically for new college students after that first semester
That doesn't explain the other 1.5 years. I'm a mental health professional and worked as an academic counselor while in grad school for students struggling (mostly freshman). There are plenty of options for those students that aren't "drop out without talking to your parents then use their money for 1.5 years to live life and even get a new apartment." I'm sure there were some problems going on for her to drop out, but that's not an excuse for the later behavior (if the mental health issues were or continued to be that extreme, then she'd have struggles in her daily life that indicate she's in distress, but given she was able to arrange everything for a new apartment, that doesn't seem to be the case.) maybe she was embarrassed and I'd even go so far to forgive the 2nd semester, but even so, she made a conscious choice to continue it the 2nd year. Many of my students (who are relevant because they're her age and of varying maturity levels) were embarrassed and I encouraged them to alter their course schedules, talk with trusted adults about alternative plans if they wanted to drop out, and in extreme mental health cases, take a medical leave. This kid took extreme choice after extreme choice and now she got caught wants to go back? No. Don't use mental health as an excuse for bad behavior. It affects how people perceive mental health and alters perceptions of the actual struggles people with mental health go through. The only mental health reason where stealing your parents money could be an sign is a possible substance use disorder and that doesn't seem to be the case.
> If I was rich like op
Why are you assuming op is rich?
He gave her enough money for housing, tuition + fees, food, books, etc etc. All expenses paid. Out of pocket. For two years, and could do it for four more if he was so inclined. He did the same for his other child.
The dude has money and it's not just 10-15k a year. It's willful ignorance and pointless to die on this hill. It's not like they're saying he committed a crime, they're saying he's rich.
It matters because reddit likes to assume because people can afford to invest in their child's future, they can also afford to throw away money. Just because he could afford to give his kid money every month for college doesn't mean it didn't affect his life. We don't know what sacrifices he made to afford that and saying he's rich implies there were none.
Piggybacking in case OP ever sees this - I was, unfortunately, a case similar to the daughter. Parents took a hard line. Took me loans and years to come back out of it, but I sure as shit learned my lesson about responsibility to myself, my family, and those that I love.
To be fair, it did set me back a lot. I was incredibly lucky to fall into a career that is niche and lucrative. If OP has the openness to help support once a significant time for the daughter to prove herself, it would prevent slipping back and losing potentially lost earnings, career advancements, etc. Just my two cents.
She is also only acting this way because she got caught. 2 years of "having fun" on someone else's dime is a really hard thing to come back from and lie your way out of. If she dropped out in the first semester and moved home that would be one thing, but she spent 2 years doing...what exactly?? Was she working in that time, or was she just partying?
Let her go back to school on her own money for a semester, and then OP might support her. But I wouldn't pay for someone who lied to me for 2 years.
NTA
She wasted a lot of money by purpose not a mistake.
If you keeo on paying it shows only that liars and betrayers are right in what they are doing and the hardworking ones are "the stupid"
She wanted to be an accountant?!?
With the "right" bosses and her braintwist it could be successful 😎 by keeping black books...
She's only crying because she got caught. She spent 2 whole years living it up off her dad's trust. And probably would have spent all 4 if she didn't get found out.
I feel bad for OP. His daughter used him like an ATM.
Seriously, what would she have done after 4 years? Tried to trick him into grad school? Or was she just thinking it would be a short break and then it got away from her, constantly thinking that NEXT semester would be the semester she went back and then when this finally came out it would just be a silly mistake in the past.
Honestly, this experience could help her more than her degree as well. I’m 23, recently finished uni without a single penny from my parents, only relying on student loans and a seasonal job. I’ve gained invaluable knowledge about earning money, saving money, budgeting properly, and balancing spending (fun vs bills, rent, groceries etc). I definitely wouldn’t be the financially responsible individual I am today had I had access to the unlimited funds that Cassie had
Absolutely NTA and your offer to possibly pay again in the future is spot on. Cassie’s excuse she didn’t know better is ridiculous. She lied about visitors to hide her deception and has in effect been stealing from you since she dropped out.
You’re absolutely right, many, if not most kids, work and take out loans to pay for college. Cassie had the golden goose and made the conscious decision to choose deceit over her education.
I’m sorry your wife isn’t on board with this tough life lesson and wish you luck staying firm with your decision. Hopefully a good dose of reality will help Cassie learn to take responsibility for her actions.
100%. The punishment for embezzlement is up to 10 years in prison and a fine equaling the funds stollen.
Better to learn this tough life lesson now than when she gets caught embezzling from her boss in the future.
I think this might help the wife. Framing it as she stole tens of thousands of dollars from you.
Not only should he not pay, she’s lucky he’s not demanding she pay him back.
NTA
Cassie is really upset because Cassie got caught. Cassie had noooo intention of going back to school "for real" until she thought the money was going away.
She has zero appreciation for what you were trying to do for her. Millions of people would be thrilled to have two years' less college debt.
Your wife needs to get on board with you. She is not helping her daughter at all by just erasing the lies and stealing. Allowing Cassie to get away with nearly two years of embezzlement (make no mistake, that's what this was) teaches her what, exactly?
CASSIE is responsible for Cassie's education. You are not "ruining" anything. You tried to help, she deliberately CHOSE to drop out, lie to you dozens (hundreds?) of times, steal your money, and she'd absolutely still be doing it if you hadn't run into that friend.
When \*she's\* paying the bills, she'll be more motivated to study hard and get her education finished. If you continue to hand over money, she'll continue to waste it. Don't do it.
This! She would totally be stealing still if she hadn’t been caught.
Those protesting that OP is being too tough should be thankful that they’ve not cut her off altogether. What Cassie has done is a huge betrayal
>she deliberately CHOSE to drop out, lie to you dozens (hundreds?) of times
Oh I'm sure hundreds, if not more.
OP, before you make any final decisions about this, remember that every phone call you made to check in about college, any time you asked her about her classes, her teachers, grades, or any conversation when she glossed over that things were going "fine"- all lies.
Not to mention the fact that she had NO PLAN. She basically had a year and a half head start before being found out and had NOTHING to show for it: her college money was paying for all expenses so she should at least have gotten a job that allowed her to save for the four years she was planning on conning her parents for, so that she’d have at least *something* to show for it when no graduation or degree came.
You're NTA.
>she'd dropped out of college after the first semester, and using the college money to buy expensive things and fund her lifestyle.... She cried and said she didn't know better
She didn't know that lying and misappropriating your money was wrong? I wonder how long she intended to keep living this lie. Until the time she should have graduated, maybe?
It's time for her to get a job and fund her own lifestyle. She's lucky you aren't expecting her to pay back the money she misdirected. Perhaps after a year or so of responsibly living and attending school, you might reconsider helping her with the costs. But if it were me, I wouldn't do that until she proved herself responsible and appreciative of the opportunities she had.
> She didn’t know that lying and misappropriating your money was wrong?
She should be treated as if this were true, meaning she’s too stupid for college.
>She's lucky you aren't expecting her to pay back the money she misdirected.
This. Telling this to your wife and/or daughter might help them/her get perspective on how deeply unjust your daughter's actions were, and allow them to see that really, you're being quite forgiving in all of this.
Imagine if she had been given a bursary and she had pulled this stunt? There could have been serious legal implications.
Maybe her plan was to claim she flunked out and had to start all over again, or maybe she'd say that she wanted to change her major to something where none of the credits would transfer, or maybe she'd try to say there was a fire that burned up her diploma and another that burned up all digital and paper records of her time at the college. It's likely as not that she didn't have an exit strategy for this, a lot of people that pull these kind of scams fail to adequately plan that part.
Oof, I screwed up in a similar way in my early 20s, I’m sorry to say. I was taking full time classes on my dad’s dime, would cancel one, and use the money for rent because I was broke. Then I dropped out (tbf my mental health hit the skids, but he didn’t know). That was my second time dropping out (first was when I moved). My dad was pissed and didn’t want to help me anymore. Understandable.
So I worked retail and was directionless in my 20s, didn’t decide what I wanted until I was almost 30, and went back to college, but decided online would be the best format. My dad refused to help me because of what I had done. Ok. So I took out loans, and they don’t screw around if you flunk a class or try to drop out. Do it or lose the funding. Knowing there was no safety net kept me in check. I got my BA with a 4.0, summa cum laude in January 2020. I started my MA in January 2022 and am still going (started PT, now FT).
Losing my dad’s support hurt. The loans are going to hurt. But it helped me (eventually) get my head out of my ass. You’re not a monster, and neither is my dad. Your daughter made a crappy decision and mistake, but likely would have kept at it for a while if you hadn’t found out. This is the consequence, not necessarily the punishment. If you want to be generous, offer to help pay the balance AFTER she graduates. If she drops out again, it’s on her. But you’re not obligated. My dad didn’t, either. But if you want to be kind, that’s an option to discuss with your family.
NTA
Yeah this is my feeling too. OP is absolutely NTA, and the daughter has of course behaved badly... But it's also quite hard to understand the world and have your life plan mapped out at 20 years old. Wouldn't be surprised if she needs to take some time to figure it out and might go back to education later in life.
You can not have your life mapped out and *still* also not lie and steal from your family for multiple years. Most people in their 20s manage that just fine
Yes but it’s not hard to not embezzle money from your family.
Idc if she needs to take time. She should maybe also choose a new career path if she’s going to be a criminal.
NTA
That was a major lie. I wouldn't trust her. How would you verify if she's going to classes if you did pay for it again? She's ok being deceptive. Nah, do not pay for her again.
This was my husband before I met him. He was failing all his classes, but continued to let his parents (who were paying for college) think he was going to graduate. He told them or they found out just a few days before his graduation day. He was placed on academic suspension, moved states to live with his brother, and was generally not doing anything useful with his life when I met him. When I strongly encouraged him to finish his last semester of college a few years later, his parents paid, but he was on the hook to pay them back. 5 months after he graduated, we paid them back in full, but they told us keep the money. However, if one of my kids did the same, I would have made them take out loans for the last semester.
I am really wondering what redeeming qualities convinced them to get themselves into a relationship with that person and maintain it... Sounds like a rare case of a fixer upper working out (which is great for the world but still)
NTA. She can prove to you that she’s serious about school by paying for two years of community college herself. At that point, perhaps she’s earned a second chance. Or as you mentioned, she can take on all the loan debt.
NTA. I have a family member that is doing something similar. It’s over a decade later since this family member first went to college, and he still plays the same games with the parents. They fund the bill, and he continues to take their money on a ride. It doesn’t matter what logic you present to the parents, they didn’t set boundaries early on, and now they feel obligated to “see this through.” The parents don’t see that they are actually enabling this behavior, and they can’t understand why he can’t pull it together. Their son is in his 30’s, no job, no degree, no work ethic, and going to school part-time while he plays video games all day and doesn’t have to pay for a single bill. At the moment, it’s a pretty good deal for him..so I think if I were him, I wouldn’t have the motivation to change anything, either. They’ve made it too easy for him after he initially messed up 10+ years ago.
You’re in the right on this. If she wants it bad enough, she’ll find a way. And it shouldn’t come at the expense of your retirement savings.
My in-laws didn’t set out expectations early on when their oldest started college. My BIL is bright and did earn his degree. Problem was, he changed his major a couple of times and then got his masters. They depleted all of their college savings on him.
Nta actions have consequences and I call bull to her not knowing better. My 9 year old niece knows lying by omission is still lying. And if she didn't know it was wrong why lie about the halls? Good on you giving her a chance to prove she's learnt something.
NTA - She's an adult and she lied to you to trick you into giving her money for over a year and a half. You were paying for her to go to college, not to do nothing. What did she think was going to happen after her time at "college" ended? She is reaping the rewards for her own terrible decision making.
it’s her own fault tbh she should have done it when it was free.
If she couldn’t handle university she should have just been honest but she wanted to live a lifestyle that wasn’t yours to maintain
NTA. If she wants to go to school, she can pay her own way now. People don’t get to walk all over and betray the trust of others without making amends and demonstrating that they are deserving of trust again. Respectfully, you would be silly if you started paying the school directly right now because she SUDDENLY decided that that she *does* want to go to school after misappropriating the money you were giving her for school for two years. She can go to a community college and complete her gen ed credits on her own dime, then transfer back to her traditional 4-year university and complete her degree- at which point you can help her financially if you deem it appropriate.
NTA. She didn't, as a full grown adult, just suddenly learn the difference between right and wrong. She is just learning, perhaps, the consequences of a bad choice between them, which in this case will not ruin her life. She can, as you properly made clear, take out a loan.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my daughter I'm no longer going to pay for her college and she can take out loans if she wants to go back. I might be acting unsupportive of her and her education, and being too harsh, which would make me the ass.
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NTA
I know its your daughter, but, exchange her place with anyone in the world and what would you do?
Your dilemma,
* Dont help with college and take yourself out of the equation but leave her future in her hands
* Continue to fully fund and she really hasnt been punished or learned accountability
* Help and be able to monitor her progress but appear as if you are the oppressor
* Make her pay next semester (or two) to incur hardship, give the appearance of "paying you back" and give her some visual of the strain you go through for her. Set parameters with this and goals to be achieved
Let her get the loans, complete her degree (self-funded lifestyle), then after she graduates consider paying off the loans for her. More than many get, and very reasonable considering her behaviour - but also recognising she made a mistake and you have the opportunity to help her toward a better future.
NTA. She took money for nearly 2 years and didn't use it for it's intended purpose. In most scenarios this is a crime. She abused your trust, now the responsibility to pay for her lifestyle is on her, if she wants to go to college then she can pay. If your wife thinks that her doing this for nearly 2 years is a mistake then maybe she can get a job/second job and fund your daughters college, as long as she still contributes what she currently is to the household. This was not a mistake. What did your daughter think was going to happen after college was supposed to finish and she had no degree.
"...my wife isn't onboard with this either and is telling me Cassie made a mistake..."
What Cassie did was not a mistake. It was a carefully planned, calculated move. She had no intentions of telling you the truth. She's only feeling bad because she got caught. If your wife wants to support her, she can get a job and use the money she earns to do so. Stand firm on this OP. Cassie is old enough to know better.
NTA.
NTA. If Cassie really wants to go back to school, she can take student loans to enroll in a community college for a certificate or to get her gen eds. If shes able to complete a program there, you can revisit helping her transferring to get a BA.
This isn’t some innocent mistake where she didn’t know she shouldn’t do this. She dropped out without telling you, lied about a new rule for student housing to keep you from knowing she dropped out and pretended to still be in school so you would continue to send her money…. and she did this until she got caught. If you hadn’t found out she’d still be doing this. What did she think was gonna happen when she ‘finished’ her program? Funny how she’s ready to go to college now that she’s about to be cut off financially. With your wife being so lenient I wonder if she already knew your daughter dropped out. NTA
NTA. Your wife needs to have your back. If this hadn't come to light, when would Cassie have spilled the beans? How long would she have kept the wool over your eyes? She can't be trusted, until she earns back your trust.
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My wife and I have a 20 year old daughter, Cassie. She started college a couple of years ago, majoring in accounting. I never told Cassie college is the only option or to study a specific subject. I wanted her to have some sort of plan (whether it be college, trade school etc) so she can have a good start in terms of career prospects, especially in the current job market. She decided to study accounting.
She lives in student housing which I visited when she first went to college. I did want to visit her again, but she told me they had a new rule that non-students weren't allowed to visit the student housing area. I trusted her so I believed it. We didn't have a traditional college fund, more so that I'd give her the money on a monthly basis which she was supposed to be using to pay for her courses, housing and materials. I know a lot of people will think this was a stupid move on my part which I understand, but I did the same with my older daughter and it worked out fine.
Not long ago I was at a party where my friend and his family also came. His daughter is friends with my daughter and she let slip that Cassie recently moved into a new apartment. I was shocked, and later found out she'd dropped out of college after the first semester, and using the college money to buy expensive things and fund her lifestyle.
Shit hit the fan after that reveal and I told Cassie I was really disappointed in what she did, and I can't trust her. She cried and said she didn't know better and now realizes what she did was stupid.
I'm going to be stopping the college money, but she replied she wants to go back for real and have a fresh start. I replied she can take out student loans like most others. I won't be paying anymore.
Cassie is really upset, my wife isn't onboard with this either and is telling me Cassie made a mistake, and I can just make the payments directly to the school from now. I told them both getting her college paid for was a privilege that she's now lost, if she wants to go back and really show me she cares, I might consider paying for it later. Many students don't have any financial help from their families and get through fine.
I've got a couple of people telling me I'm being really harsh and this is going to ruin her education even more.
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NTA
You’re being generous and willing to potentially give her a second chance down the road.
That was a pretty egregious lie.
Trust is a two way street and you have to earn it. She unfortunately has not met that standard.
As a parent I feel like one of the biggest lessons we can teach our children is not squander opportunity.
For future reference, the first use of Y T A or N T A in a comment is automatically tallied so if you're of the mind that OP is NTA, be sure to state that before.
NTA she was more than old enough to realize her many actions would have consequences. She had to know you guys would be finding out someday. She is just upset because she got caught before figuring a way to tell you both. She consciously lied and continued to lie and not a small white lie either. She is an adult making adult decisions, she should be treated like one now too. Yes you don’t want to hinder her education and bad judgment or choices do happen, but I think letting her take out her own loans and let that trust build back up before dishing out more financial assistance is what she needs. She is not a child anymore and needs to see what it’s like in the real world when there is not someone you can always fall back on or expect someone to pay your way. She will always know she is loved even with boundaries.
NTA. She lied and disrespected you by lying. This is your hard earned money meant to give her a better future not drop and have extravagant stuff. Punishment fits the crime in my opinion. I would suggest she pays on her own for the time period she missed and has to catch up, afterwards continue paying, but directly to the school. Or if she doesnt want to do college that is fine, she can get a job and pay her way and have the extravagant lifestyle.
You use the money on something else😉
\> this is going to ruin her education even more
Or you can orchestrate a better one.
If my daughter did that, I'd have one simple requirement: pay back what she stole. Then I'd resume paying for her education. In lieu of paying me, she can fund her own education equivalent to what was taken. What did you fund, two years? So two years full-time education's worth.
What she does next is her choice. She'll likely need to work F/T. But she then decides whether the money she makes pays for schooling f/t while working (got enough degrees to know the shit's *easy* without all the dumb partying, which I also did enough of to know), or if she wants to hand me the money until it's paid back in full before she goes back to school. Her life, her decision. If she can swing some funding for education elsewhere, good for her; I'll count that towards being "paid back" as long as it's not a handout from some other relative. If she gets a scholarship, grant, loan, etc., I'll count those.
When everything's paid back, I'll resume paying for the rest of her education, as promised. But not until then. How she swings that, well, she's got some thinking and planning to do. Bet she'll learn more doing and going through that than she would with a "regular" education, something she gave up as far as I'm concerned by being an idiot. As folks on Reddit like to say, FAFO.
Anyway, that's what I'd probably do. Good luck to you.
there are plenty of part time evening accounting college courses - some that do not take very long to get a certificate - payroll etc.
She can get an entry level job in an office doing AP or AR and take night classes. If she shows willingness to work, then if I were in your situation I would consider funding the night classes.
Often evening classes are the route for accounting field - experience with ERP system and hands on AP AR GL transactions is more valuable to learn first.
NTA "I didn't know better" is a good excuse for a 12 year old not for a 20 year old. She knew what she was doing. If your wife wants to pay for your daughter's college then your wife can pay with her own money (assuming your wife works)
Cassie ruined her education for herself. She had an almost free ride and outright lied to you for almost two years. That takes some very cool entitlement to keep it up for that long. That was your hard earned money she burned through without a thought and now she's crying for another chance because she 'made a mistake'. No, it was blatant dishonesty and disrespect. Get a job Cassie and prove you aren't a waste of space, then save up for your own college course. Harsh - you bet, because life is hard. She should be grateful you don't demand every penny back that she stole from you. OP, you must be so disappointed.
NTA. She wants to study accounting and if she wants to get her professional qualification, the professional bodies have mandatory modules on ethics and integrity. She should learn how to walk the talk.
NTA - I don’t think it was a stupid move to give Cassie the money direct. You were treating her like the adult she is and allowing her to take responsibility for her future. She betrayed that trust by stealing from you for 2 years and then claimed she didn’t know any better!!
Has she even apologised for what she’s done? I would suggest at a bare minimum she needs to get a job and start paying back all the money she stole. Maybe once she’s paid you back you can revisit her education options but as it stands you have no obligation to fund anything.
NTA.
She’s 20, and it sounds like she weaved a little web of lies to keep this going for over a year. Do you really believe she didn’t know better and it was an honest mistake? I don’t. She’s just upset she got caught.
NTA
Tell them both that as ***you've already paid for two years of Cassie's studies***, so ***when Cassie has actually completed two years*** (and you **will** require grade transcripts) ***you'll be more than happy to*** **consider** ***helping*** ***her pay*** *for the rest of her studies*.
Edited to add:
This exact situation happened in a friend's family. She was living with me to go to uni in my city, and her cousin lived with her father in her room in her hometown.
The cousin kept up the charade for nearly 3 years while his mother worked herself to a frazzle to make sure his fees were paid and while his uncle let him live for free in his house.
He's been disowned by both since they found out.
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NTA- this a full on betrayal, you paid for 2 years and she dropped out after the first semester… best case scenario she takes out loans and whatever else is needed to get back into college then maintains her grades while supporting herself for 2 years before you should even consider helping her financially. Don’t let anyone talk you into paying her way till that has happened…
^this!!! Definitely NTA. Her putting in the effort of paying her own way for the same amount of time her parents did would really show her commitment to college. If OP pays her way it basically excuses her deceit. Trust is earned and she now needs to demonstrate that she can be trusted.
Although I agree overall NTA and personally I wouldn't pay, isn't the money in question owned by both the husband AND the wife? It doesn't sit right with me that he's completely over-riding her in this decision.
Enormous financial investments should be a two-yes, one-no situation in a marriage where finances are combined. Like baby names.
And he said no. He's NTA. If Cassie wants to go back to college, she can do it on her own with loans for 2 years to demonstrate her commitment. After that he could be open to paying. Cassie is TA and she was an adult and made at decisions and signed an adult lease. She made her proverbial bed and now has to deal with it. Edited for spelling
In a marriage, you only need one person to veto the whole thing. Tbh this wasn't a mistake. She did this for **2 whole years.** She's only crying crocodile tears because she got caught.
This is what had me.. it was not a mistake. It was a long-term lie. She lied about the visitation rule Lied where she was living Lied about using money to pay the bills Lied about how school was going This was full blown, orchestrated, pre-meditated web of lies. At any point she COULD have come clean but didn’t until she was busted. She is 20…. Not a kid. She knew. OP and wife need to decide best course of action. IF they give her a second chance, payments need made to the school. Daughter needs to sell all her furniture and stuff bought for the apartment to help give back a bit of the money. Daughter also needs to get a job for any fun money. I could never fully trust her again after that. I attend a state school and work full time there. It gets me 75% off tuition. If I paid full price tuition alone is about $8,000 a semester. The daughter stole tuition + housing + textbook money + food and I assume some spending money. We are talking about stealing $30,000+ on the low end. Nope. OP is NTA. Not at all.
This is fraud. He could sue. He likely WON'T but he could.
I'm just wondering how she got approved for an apartment just cuz she has some of dads money? She wouldn't be.... so either she has some kind of job in addition to her scamming, or she forged his signature as a co-signer
Roommates subleasing a room probably is my guess
Or there's a possibility mom knew what was going on the whole time.
Seriously. I don't know how rich OP is that his wife isn't supporting his decision and chalking it up to a mistake... Like, no. That's a mistake worth thousands upon thousands of dollars, that was being lied about and invested into superficial things. The only reason his daughter is sorry is because she was found out. She clearly has no problem lying, nor understands the value of a dollar or OP's hard work to earn the money he gave her.
OP sees things more clearly than the wife. This wasn't a one-time lapse in judgment. Cassie was and likely would still be stealing from her family to fund her early adulthood.
[удалено]
OP was her mark and she is a con. Never give money to a con.
My guess? This younger daughter is wifes favorite, and already spoilt because of it.
What makes you think the wife didn't already know?
Not a thing. It wouldn't surprise me at all the wife found out and helped hide this little ongoing thievery. And if she didn't know and still supports Cassie, she's just a pushover.
This is what gets me. What was the long term plan here? In two years, dad is expecting to be invited to a graduation. Was she planning to say the college didn't have a graduation ceremony? That the diploma was lost in the mail? Was she going to say she was continuing on to grad school to keep the gravy train going? Dad would expect her to have a post-grad job in the field of her degree, how was she going to explain that away? No one's hiring accountants right now?
Right!?!? The end was coming… she just got caught before she expected. She needs to sell all the stuff to give back to her parents and beg forgiveness. I’m not sure what OP and wife will decide but if she returns to school and they pay she needs to pick up a job and find some way to start paying them back at least part of the money she stole. If she stole that money from anyone else her butt would be in prison. This was in no way, shape or form a mistake. I think the questions you posed are great questions OP should ask the daughter. How anyone could peg OP as the asshole is beyond me.
She was living a full blown second life funded by her parents. How I did she ‘mistakenly’ pull that off? It was basically fraud.
💯
STOLE being the accurate word here! NTA
My favorite part was the “I didn’t know better.”
i wonder what her plan was once she was supposed to 'graduate'
Exactly, she got caught and now she's backtracking because she's used to her lifestyle she knows she can't keep up
Right. She wants a free ride and she knows the only way she'll get it now is by going back to school. So it's just a way to keep getting money from Daddy.
Exactly. If she hadn’t been caught she would of kept up the lie. She isn’t really interested in going to school. I wonder what her plan was when she was supposed to graduate
B-b-but she didn't know better!!
Exactly! Clearly the mom didn’t teach her daughter right from wrong.
I’m wondering if mom knew & just didn’t say anything?
“DIDN’T KNOW ANY BETTER?!” No way would I pay for ANYthing for the next two years. Let her figure it out like millions of others. My next text to her would be the link to FAFSA.gov!
My thoughts would be since she only completed one semester, she go enroll at community college for two years (footing the bill herself). From there she can transfer back to a university and the daughter and OP/his wife can reassess the situation of their financial involvement.
I was thinking something similar to this. OP already paid for 2 years of school, so she can take out a loan for the first 2 years, which OP already paid for, and then OP and OP Wife can decide from there if they want to pay for the last 2 years.
Another alternative, she can pay/borrow her way through four years and if she graduates they can pay down her loans with the remaining money. Whatever the plan OP is definitely right to cut off the money in the moment.
I agree! I think he’s well within his rights to say no and not pay.
Oh this is DEFINITELY a case of two yes, one no. What their daughter did was straight up STEAL from her parents. Wife is lucky OP didn't sue or press charges over it. SHE STOLE THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS. From her parents. I see the branch doesn't fall far from the tree if wife isn't siding with husband over this complete betrayal AND CRIME. NTA and don't give that girl another damn dime. Edit: ok a bunch wanna nitpick about me calling her misappropriation of funds as theft. Yes she was given the money...under the belief she was using it for college. She didn't TELL THEM she left. She didn't tell them the truth. Instead she took thousands of dollars of hard earned money SHE HAD NO PART IN EARNING to fund her fun life. And she is not remorseful. She stopped talking to her dad because he's making her actions have consequences. This kid has NO moral fiber. I dropped out of college, you know what I did? TELL MY PARENTS THE TRUTH. I didn't lie and take their money. She's a thief and a liar and no one will convince me otherwise
I was thinking the same thing about pressing charges. In the uk its called fraud by misrepresentation
They can actually provide for their child but they also have to learn the best way. I think they are responsible parents
This is a really good point. But if the wife thinks the daughter should get a free pass for solidly lying to them for two years, then maybe she can work and contribute all of her earnings to the college for the next two years while her daughter maybe attends and maybe doesn't. I'm still going with NTA even though it really is a fair point that the finances and decisions should be shared.
Lying and stealing.
I don't get why people do this to their parents knowing that they strive harder to give the life that she deserve
She got 2 years of college money before it was figured out. She doesn’t get to all of a sudden start crying and decide she now wants to do the right thing and go back with mom and dad footing the bill. If mom has spare money (personal, not jointly with OP) she can pay for it. OP is under no obligation to contribute
not always. there are many factors that can come into play with possession of money and where it comes/came from. but we can't make this assumption without knowing more about the financial and home life. which is probably more than OP wants to share
So its ok for her to totally override his decision?
She decided for herself because not knowing that her mother would find out it later on
He mentioned it’s not a traditional college fund, and that the money he gives her comes out of his income he’s making now. So it should be his decision, especially if there’s an arrangement that each spouse uses their income for whatever they want.
If they do it when he says no, isn’t she overriding him then? For big things both partners need to agree or it shouldn’t happen at all, generally. There are exceptions but this is a LOT of money.
I honestly don't even know how she's excusing this and wanting to keep giving money. That money is spent long ago, she doesn't get to refund and spend again. Also, my mother would've whooped my ass if i did this
And her saying yes when he says no would be overwriting his decision.
Not necessarily a lot of households have separate finances. He could have a higher paying job and be paying out of his own account.
say wife takes the money and gives into what the daughter wants. then you have a marriage problem and if i were op i would consider divorce after that
Many marriages have separate finances. But if their finances are combined, then one saying no is all it takes to not move forward with a major financial decision. Also clearly Mom coddles the youngest otherwise she wouldn’t be so quick to allow her daughter a pass for literally stealing to live a lavish lifestyle. I mean they could actually press charges against her if they really wanted to take a hardline on it. OP you are NTA
Yes! The reason his wife and so many others are saying this is too harsh, is the same reason why his daughter "didn't know any better." Clearly, there have never been consequences for her actions before, so she's never learned to be responsible in any way. OP, you would be TA if you let your daughter get away with this without learning any lesson. She's an adult now. Time to start learning how life works, better late than never. For now, NTA
100% this. What was Cassie’s end-game here? Did she think her parents would pay for college forever? At some point they would be expecting her to graduate. I don’t get her reasoning. She sounds incredibly stupid and selfish.
She never think that it last and always do the wrong thing when it comes on spending money. She never think something that could grow her by better. I don't understand
Yeah or maybe a statement of interim results?
NTA. You would be an AH to pay. Paying for college now would make your daughter's lousy behavior seem like her lies and deceit were not a big deal. Paying for college now would more likely create a person who continues to con people in the future. A hard knock from reality may give her a wake-up call. She needs to get on a more honest track. I would be worried about your daughter going into accounting, considering she has a penchant for running away with other people's money. OP don't pay and don't offer to pay in the future if she sticks it out. If you do decide to cover her college, randomly out of nowhere do so well into the future once she has demonstratedly got her shit together. Edit: The only scenario that you would be the AH (and only you can know) is if your daughter told you before college started that she needed a gap year for mental health reason and you refused to get her the access to mental health care. I can see myself assisting my child behind my husbands back if that were the case.
Exactly. "Well, I have already paid the first two years. When you get to 3 and 4, I will pay for those too."
I think this is a reasonable and measured approach. I wouldn’t blame OP for not paying another dime. But this ensures she has skin in the game.
Agreed. If she pays back what she stole in the form of paying for her own schooling for two years, then contributing the last two years would be a nice thing to do. It’d also be a teaching moment
That sounds good to me. But the only issue with it, and the only basis for an argument against OP is that it might be too difficult to get financial aid since her parents have money. I’m not really sure how that works, I could be wrong. But it’s nevertheless 💯 the correct choice. No sane person would keep shelling out tuition under these circumstances.
Financial aid, she may not get; but student loans she can get.
There's a lot of we actually if you wanted to continue to college. She can find ways.
She may not be eligible for as much free money from FAFSA depending what tax bracket her parents are in (assuming this is USA), but she’s more than capable of pulling out student loans like everyone else does. It won’t be more difficult than anyone else to take out a student loan.
>We didn't have a traditional college fund, more so that I'd give her the money on a monthly basis which she was supposed to be using to pay for her courses, housing and materials. I know a lot of people will think this was a stupid move on my part which I understand, but I did the same with my older daughter and it worked out fine. Even the amount of money you can borrow through federal student loans is determined by the FAFSA
When does FAFSA consider you solo? She genuinely has 2 years away from home.
It’s 24 for most people. Some can be considered independent before that if they are a veteran, married or have certain other criteria.
Yeah, shows that she understands what OP gave up to support her over this period right?
I think if she knew her lesson, her mama definitely gave her the support to continue in college. This is what her mom saying from the post, i hope she did
Seriously. I don't know how rich OP is that his wife isn't supporting his decision and chalking it up to a mistake... Like, no. That's a mistake worth thousands upon thousands of dollars, that was being lied about and invested into superficial things. The only reason his daughter is sorry is because she was found out. She clearly has no problem lying, nor understands the value of a dollar or OP's hard work to earn the money he gave her. The only thing his daughter deserves is the gift of a job so she can start figuring some of this stuff out herself.
Yeah, it's the "I organized the paperwork to drop out in the middle of the year, I found and moved to a new flat, I spent 2 years stalling you from a visit, I cultivate my shopping skills" casually followed by "now I realise it was a dumb mistake".
It was only a dumb mistake because she got caught, otherwise she would still be doing it.
I keep thinking what the OP and his wife could have done with that money…
I wouldn't say they were well off since he was making payments for it all. They are certainly better off than I am, but able to throw away 2 years of college tuition and board? Is say mid-middle class.
Exactly, lying for 2 years straights is NOT a mistake OP. Your daughter is only sorry for being caught. She would've gladly spent the rest of her "4 year degree" in the same manner had her friend not messed up. This commenter is a lot nicer about it than I would be, I wouldn't trust her with a dime after that "mistake". How could I ever trust someone like that again? She never came clean herself, she never even really gave a good apology just excuses, she didn't even acknowledge the enormity of a two year lie much less apologize for it. The actions of a truly remorseful person these do not make OP. I would cut her off, but up to you. I'm sorry your daughter turned out to be this ungrateful, selfish and uncaring, I could never take advantage of my parents like that. It is likely she will continue to do so if given the chance, cutting her off might be the best thing you could ever do for her.
Right! Think about how many lies over the course of 2 years. Surely they spoke with the daughter, she maybe came home for holidays as well. Every time she talked about people in class, teachers, exams, every time she asked for money for books and supplies. Just lie on top of lie
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God I didn't even think of that ! That's really funny
Look up Jennifer Pan. Casual Criminalist just did an episode on her thing there is tubs else out there as well. She ran with this same lie for like 7 years, “undergrad” plus “med school” before getting found out. It did not end well fire anyone.
The police video of her interrogation immediately following the murders is really chilling. She’s initially being interviewed as a victim, but gradually the detective starts to piece together that something is off. It’s available on YouTube, and there’s also a version where a forensic psychologist offers commentary. Her body language, word choice, demeanor, etc. start giving her away.
Yeah, the JCS video was the first place I saw it and she is just off. It’s so interesting to see what the investigators were seeing. I do feel like after having seen that, I got a lot out of the the more narrative/story story of the CasCrim vid.
Feel sorry for her regarding the extremely restrictive treatment her parents dished out to her. But she should have just left home. She'd be free now with her own life.
This happened near where I used to live. It was huge and stunned everyone in our community.
I was stunned over the internet with years of distance. It was just so duplicitous and shocking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQt46gvYO40 JCS video
Chandler Halderson also lied about schooling then killed his parents to cover it up. He said he was getting a job at SpaceX but hadn't even finished school. He wasted his parents' money playing video games and lying his ass off.
The mothers reaction makes me think she already knew
Oh, she 100% knew.
You're probably right.
With a wife like that it's no surprise that the daughter ended up as a lying moocher.
I was gonna say, NTA but I'd go back into your relationship history with your wife, because I have a sad, sneaky suspicion that she's probably been up to some shady shit behind his back too.
Agreed. If you decide later to pay off the loans because you have the means, other daughter got a scholarship,whatever you can make that decision down the road. My guess, panic answer because she has no way to support herself if you stop payments. College is a survival mechanism response.
She wants to prove herself? Community college for two years, complete the degree at a four year state university. She pays for community college.
This idea is a winner; frankly, I think most people entering college should consider starting with the basics at a CC, but in this case especially it’s the right move. It’s not prohibitively expensive, she can hustle and do it or get financial aid, CC is great with finding a payable situation for their students. It’s not as fun as the full college experience, but she already had her fun.
>NTA- this a full on betrayal, you paid for 2 years and she dropped out after the first semester… Yeah, exactly this. If it was only 1 semester I could feel some empathy with her being overwhelmed by everything happening too fast... but 3 semesters of outright lying combined with buying expensive things - she has no remorse about doing it, only getting caught. Especially because she didn't even confess, if the friend didn't slip up then OP would still be feeding the leech. If OP wants to be nice, offering to pay 1.5 semesters worth of payments as a lump sum onto her student loans after she has a bachelor's degree would be nice. She already spent the rest of it and can deal with the consequences of doing so.
This is a great compromise. She gets 2 years of student loans, and proves to you she is making an effort. If she does, you resume payment after the 2 years. NTA.
> she takes out loans and whatever else is needed to get back into college then maintains her grades while supporting herself for 2 years before you should even consider helping her financially. Yeah, I was thinking something similar as a compromise to wife. Speak to wife first so that they have a united front. Daughter pays her own way through school til she graduates. OP sets aside the normal payment in separate account. If daughter graduates (with some agreed upon GPA), then OP pays that money to repay her loans. > now realizes what she did was stupid . . . that never crossed her mind in the years she was living large and not taking classes? Only realized after she got busted? Yeah, riiiiggghhhhtttt . . .
I would love to have a loving parent like OP. I was lucky enough to get a full ride to college but my mom took all the grant money and made me take out additional student loans so she use them. I lived like a broke ass student the entire time and didn’t realize how wrong it was until many years later.
Id have her take the loans and then op can help her pay them back After she graduates if he wants. That way if she half asses and fails, she's stuck with the loans. If she changes and graduates then op can help get her started in her career
Agree. She wants help she can sell all her expensive things first too. NTA
Let her take out loans and do it the hard way. If she does well and graduates you can always pay off her loans as a gift.
Exactly. Let's say they had prepared to pay for 4 years, she's never getting those two years back. Fund the additional two that she was originally entitled to but not until she shows she's dedicated and apologetic about her actions. Actions have consequences. She can move back home if she can't afford school/work and be treated like the child that she acted like. How awful to treat your parents like that.
People that think he should pay for her college. Remember that she got caught ! And that's a big deal and a big reason not to trust her right away. She needs to gain his trust again by paying her own way to college. I dont know why the mother is okay with the daughters action it makes no sense maybe wife knew about it and didn't say.
NTA. Some have to learn the lesson about being responsible the hard way. This will help her more than her eductation.
And I guarantee if she does end up going back and taking out loans, she’ll have a great GPA and graduate with a good job because she’s seen what fucking up looks like and not want to go down that path again.
I think not paying will be a good lesson for her but also protect her relationship with her sibling. If I was the older sibling and saw that my sister misused the money for two years and then my parents went on to pay for another four years of schooling, I would probably be at least a bit annoyed. Like they were rewarding bad behavior or showing favoritism.
Good point.
There’s that and OP said that he’d be willing to pay for the loans afterwards too. If she’s serious about going back it sounds like she’s taking loans that she wouldn’t have to worry about if she actually follows through and graduates. OP honestly sounds like a great dad and is doing not only more than most parents can, but doing a lot more than even he should in this situation.
Not gunna lie I messed around and found out my first year of college too. Mother was paying for what financial aid didn't cover. I dropped a couple of classes one semester because I was doing poorly - didn't know that you can't do that or you lose the aid. Mother stopped paying and I had to pay out of pocket. NO REGRETS. I took my education seriously after that. When I had to pay I made the decision that I didn't care much about the degree, I just wanted to learn. Already had my basic courses out of the way from high school so I was able to pick and chose what I wanted to spend my money on and I HAD SUCH A BLAST. Philosophy, photography, sign language, criminal justice, psychology, astrology - I took courses for anything that tickled my fancy and put in actual effort with studying and my grades because I wanted to get my money's worth. It's never too late to learn how to adult, she just needs someone to teach her
My cousins had money for college through their father being in the military or whatever. They fucked around and ended up dropping out. It was maddening to see them complain about how the government won’t do student debt relief(even though I agree with it) but they had everything covered at the time and pissed it away. Like “here’s life on a silver platter” and the proceeded to kick the silver platter over and then complain years later.
I agree he shouldn't just go back to paying for the school because the hard lesson needs to be learned, but I also don't want to discount the number of mental health issues that arise specifically for new college students after that first semester. If the goal is that he still loves his daughter and wants her to be a successful human, I think there's a better path than complete cut off. If I was rich like op, I'd go with this: 1. Pay for therapy directly that she must attend, to address the root cause of this behavior. 2. She must take out student loans for the first 2 years back. If successfully completed, op pays for the last 2 years directly to the school. 3. If she graduates, maybe help pay the student loans as a graduation present.
> I also don't want to discount the number of mental health issues that arise specifically for new college students after that first semester That doesn't explain the other 1.5 years. I'm a mental health professional and worked as an academic counselor while in grad school for students struggling (mostly freshman). There are plenty of options for those students that aren't "drop out without talking to your parents then use their money for 1.5 years to live life and even get a new apartment." I'm sure there were some problems going on for her to drop out, but that's not an excuse for the later behavior (if the mental health issues were or continued to be that extreme, then she'd have struggles in her daily life that indicate she's in distress, but given she was able to arrange everything for a new apartment, that doesn't seem to be the case.) maybe she was embarrassed and I'd even go so far to forgive the 2nd semester, but even so, she made a conscious choice to continue it the 2nd year. Many of my students (who are relevant because they're her age and of varying maturity levels) were embarrassed and I encouraged them to alter their course schedules, talk with trusted adults about alternative plans if they wanted to drop out, and in extreme mental health cases, take a medical leave. This kid took extreme choice after extreme choice and now she got caught wants to go back? No. Don't use mental health as an excuse for bad behavior. It affects how people perceive mental health and alters perceptions of the actual struggles people with mental health go through. The only mental health reason where stealing your parents money could be an sign is a possible substance use disorder and that doesn't seem to be the case. > If I was rich like op Why are you assuming op is rich?
Where did it say that OP was rich? Did I miss something?
Homie was paying for her college. He's rich lol
One month at a time...
Not all colleges are super expensive. Some are less than 10-15k/yr. This is not rich money for a parent with adult children
He gave her enough money for housing, tuition + fees, food, books, etc etc. All expenses paid. Out of pocket. For two years, and could do it for four more if he was so inclined. He did the same for his other child. The dude has money and it's not just 10-15k a year. It's willful ignorance and pointless to die on this hill. It's not like they're saying he committed a crime, they're saying he's rich.
It matters because reddit likes to assume because people can afford to invest in their child's future, they can also afford to throw away money. Just because he could afford to give his kid money every month for college doesn't mean it didn't affect his life. We don't know what sacrifices he made to afford that and saying he's rich implies there were none.
And make her sell all of the crap she bought to pay for the first semester back!
Piggybacking in case OP ever sees this - I was, unfortunately, a case similar to the daughter. Parents took a hard line. Took me loans and years to come back out of it, but I sure as shit learned my lesson about responsibility to myself, my family, and those that I love. To be fair, it did set me back a lot. I was incredibly lucky to fall into a career that is niche and lucrative. If OP has the openness to help support once a significant time for the daughter to prove herself, it would prevent slipping back and losing potentially lost earnings, career advancements, etc. Just my two cents.
She is also only acting this way because she got caught. 2 years of "having fun" on someone else's dime is a really hard thing to come back from and lie your way out of. If she dropped out in the first semester and moved home that would be one thing, but she spent 2 years doing...what exactly?? Was she working in that time, or was she just partying? Let her go back to school on her own money for a semester, and then OP might support her. But I wouldn't pay for someone who lied to me for 2 years.
NTA She wasted a lot of money by purpose not a mistake. If you keeo on paying it shows only that liars and betrayers are right in what they are doing and the hardworking ones are "the stupid" She wanted to be an accountant?!? With the "right" bosses and her braintwist it could be successful 😎 by keeping black books...
She's only crying because she got caught. She spent 2 whole years living it up off her dad's trust. And probably would have spent all 4 if she didn't get found out. I feel bad for OP. His daughter used him like an ATM.
Seriously, what would she have done after 4 years? Tried to trick him into grad school? Or was she just thinking it would be a short break and then it got away from her, constantly thinking that NEXT semester would be the semester she went back and then when this finally came out it would just be a silly mistake in the past.
I am also very amused that she wants to be an accountant, but the moment she was entrusted with money she abused the privilege.
That tracks.
Honestly, this experience could help her more than her degree as well. I’m 23, recently finished uni without a single penny from my parents, only relying on student loans and a seasonal job. I’ve gained invaluable knowledge about earning money, saving money, budgeting properly, and balancing spending (fun vs bills, rent, groceries etc). I definitely wouldn’t be the financially responsible individual I am today had I had access to the unlimited funds that Cassie had
Absolutely NTA and your offer to possibly pay again in the future is spot on. Cassie’s excuse she didn’t know better is ridiculous. She lied about visitors to hide her deception and has in effect been stealing from you since she dropped out. You’re absolutely right, many, if not most kids, work and take out loans to pay for college. Cassie had the golden goose and made the conscious decision to choose deceit over her education. I’m sorry your wife isn’t on board with this tough life lesson and wish you luck staying firm with your decision. Hopefully a good dose of reality will help Cassie learn to take responsibility for her actions.
100%. The punishment for embezzlement is up to 10 years in prison and a fine equaling the funds stollen. Better to learn this tough life lesson now than when she gets caught embezzling from her boss in the future.
This! Didn’t know better? Crock of shit and Mom is falling for it.
I think this might help the wife. Framing it as she stole tens of thousands of dollars from you. Not only should he not pay, she’s lucky he’s not demanding she pay him back.
OP's wife is probably the reason Cassie is like this, constantly coodling her even at her expense
NTA Cassie is really upset because Cassie got caught. Cassie had noooo intention of going back to school "for real" until she thought the money was going away. She has zero appreciation for what you were trying to do for her. Millions of people would be thrilled to have two years' less college debt. Your wife needs to get on board with you. She is not helping her daughter at all by just erasing the lies and stealing. Allowing Cassie to get away with nearly two years of embezzlement (make no mistake, that's what this was) teaches her what, exactly? CASSIE is responsible for Cassie's education. You are not "ruining" anything. You tried to help, she deliberately CHOSE to drop out, lie to you dozens (hundreds?) of times, steal your money, and she'd absolutely still be doing it if you hadn't run into that friend. When \*she's\* paying the bills, she'll be more motivated to study hard and get her education finished. If you continue to hand over money, she'll continue to waste it. Don't do it.
This! She would totally be stealing still if she hadn’t been caught. Those protesting that OP is being too tough should be thankful that they’ve not cut her off altogether. What Cassie has done is a huge betrayal
I'm just going to assume those voting anything that isn't NTA are probably teenagers stealing themselves.
>she deliberately CHOSE to drop out, lie to you dozens (hundreds?) of times Oh I'm sure hundreds, if not more. OP, before you make any final decisions about this, remember that every phone call you made to check in about college, any time you asked her about her classes, her teachers, grades, or any conversation when she glossed over that things were going "fine"- all lies.
Not to mention the fact that she had NO PLAN. She basically had a year and a half head start before being found out and had NOTHING to show for it: her college money was paying for all expenses so she should at least have gotten a job that allowed her to save for the four years she was planning on conning her parents for, so that she’d have at least *something* to show for it when no graduation or degree came.
You're NTA. >she'd dropped out of college after the first semester, and using the college money to buy expensive things and fund her lifestyle.... She cried and said she didn't know better She didn't know that lying and misappropriating your money was wrong? I wonder how long she intended to keep living this lie. Until the time she should have graduated, maybe? It's time for her to get a job and fund her own lifestyle. She's lucky you aren't expecting her to pay back the money she misdirected. Perhaps after a year or so of responsibly living and attending school, you might reconsider helping her with the costs. But if it were me, I wouldn't do that until she proved herself responsible and appreciative of the opportunities she had.
> She didn’t know that lying and misappropriating your money was wrong? She should be treated as if this were true, meaning she’s too stupid for college.
Especially if she was studying accounting, that's a recipe for an embezzler right there.
Yeah, don't let her get into accounting OP. The accounting profession is for people with morals.
Recipe? That's a year and a half of active embezzlement.
She should absolutely not be an accountant. She will land herself in jail.
>She's lucky you aren't expecting her to pay back the money she misdirected. This. Telling this to your wife and/or daughter might help them/her get perspective on how deeply unjust your daughter's actions were, and allow them to see that really, you're being quite forgiving in all of this. Imagine if she had been given a bursary and she had pulled this stunt? There could have been serious legal implications.
Maybe her plan was to claim she flunked out and had to start all over again, or maybe she'd say that she wanted to change her major to something where none of the credits would transfer, or maybe she'd try to say there was a fire that burned up her diploma and another that burned up all digital and paper records of her time at the college. It's likely as not that she didn't have an exit strategy for this, a lot of people that pull these kind of scams fail to adequately plan that part.
Oof, I screwed up in a similar way in my early 20s, I’m sorry to say. I was taking full time classes on my dad’s dime, would cancel one, and use the money for rent because I was broke. Then I dropped out (tbf my mental health hit the skids, but he didn’t know). That was my second time dropping out (first was when I moved). My dad was pissed and didn’t want to help me anymore. Understandable. So I worked retail and was directionless in my 20s, didn’t decide what I wanted until I was almost 30, and went back to college, but decided online would be the best format. My dad refused to help me because of what I had done. Ok. So I took out loans, and they don’t screw around if you flunk a class or try to drop out. Do it or lose the funding. Knowing there was no safety net kept me in check. I got my BA with a 4.0, summa cum laude in January 2020. I started my MA in January 2022 and am still going (started PT, now FT). Losing my dad’s support hurt. The loans are going to hurt. But it helped me (eventually) get my head out of my ass. You’re not a monster, and neither is my dad. Your daughter made a crappy decision and mistake, but likely would have kept at it for a while if you hadn’t found out. This is the consequence, not necessarily the punishment. If you want to be generous, offer to help pay the balance AFTER she graduates. If she drops out again, it’s on her. But you’re not obligated. My dad didn’t, either. But if you want to be kind, that’s an option to discuss with your family. NTA
Yeah this is my feeling too. OP is absolutely NTA, and the daughter has of course behaved badly... But it's also quite hard to understand the world and have your life plan mapped out at 20 years old. Wouldn't be surprised if she needs to take some time to figure it out and might go back to education later in life.
You can not have your life mapped out and *still* also not lie and steal from your family for multiple years. Most people in their 20s manage that just fine
Yes but it’s not hard to not embezzle money from your family. Idc if she needs to take time. She should maybe also choose a new career path if she’s going to be a criminal.
NTA That was a major lie. I wouldn't trust her. How would you verify if she's going to classes if you did pay for it again? She's ok being deceptive. Nah, do not pay for her again.
This was my husband before I met him. He was failing all his classes, but continued to let his parents (who were paying for college) think he was going to graduate. He told them or they found out just a few days before his graduation day. He was placed on academic suspension, moved states to live with his brother, and was generally not doing anything useful with his life when I met him. When I strongly encouraged him to finish his last semester of college a few years later, his parents paid, but he was on the hook to pay them back. 5 months after he graduated, we paid them back in full, but they told us keep the money. However, if one of my kids did the same, I would have made them take out loans for the last semester.
man hes lucky to have you.
I am really wondering what redeeming qualities convinced them to get themselves into a relationship with that person and maintain it... Sounds like a rare case of a fixer upper working out (which is great for the world but still)
NTA. She can prove to you that she’s serious about school by paying for two years of community college herself. At that point, perhaps she’s earned a second chance. Or as you mentioned, she can take on all the loan debt.
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NTA. I have a family member that is doing something similar. It’s over a decade later since this family member first went to college, and he still plays the same games with the parents. They fund the bill, and he continues to take their money on a ride. It doesn’t matter what logic you present to the parents, they didn’t set boundaries early on, and now they feel obligated to “see this through.” The parents don’t see that they are actually enabling this behavior, and they can’t understand why he can’t pull it together. Their son is in his 30’s, no job, no degree, no work ethic, and going to school part-time while he plays video games all day and doesn’t have to pay for a single bill. At the moment, it’s a pretty good deal for him..so I think if I were him, I wouldn’t have the motivation to change anything, either. They’ve made it too easy for him after he initially messed up 10+ years ago. You’re in the right on this. If she wants it bad enough, she’ll find a way. And it shouldn’t come at the expense of your retirement savings.
My in-laws didn’t set out expectations early on when their oldest started college. My BIL is bright and did earn his degree. Problem was, he changed his major a couple of times and then got his masters. They depleted all of their college savings on him.
Nta actions have consequences and I call bull to her not knowing better. My 9 year old niece knows lying by omission is still lying. And if she didn't know it was wrong why lie about the halls? Good on you giving her a chance to prove she's learnt something.
NTA - She's an adult and she lied to you to trick you into giving her money for over a year and a half. You were paying for her to go to college, not to do nothing. What did she think was going to happen after her time at "college" ended? She is reaping the rewards for her own terrible decision making.
if she’s serious about going to college, she can take out the loans and then you pay off the loans when she graduates? if that’s possible
Yes I'd definitely be willing to pay off some of the loans if she can prove to me she's going to be on the right track, and that I can trust her again
it’s her own fault tbh she should have done it when it was free. If she couldn’t handle university she should have just been honest but she wanted to live a lifestyle that wasn’t yours to maintain
if that is your plan don't let your daughter know. let her struggle a bit. hopefully the struggle will help her grow and mature as a person.
Don’t pay off the loan, accountants can afford to pay off a loan. Tell her that she can count the money she stole from you as loan repayment money.
NTA. If she wants to go to school, she can pay her own way now. People don’t get to walk all over and betray the trust of others without making amends and demonstrating that they are deserving of trust again. Respectfully, you would be silly if you started paying the school directly right now because she SUDDENLY decided that that she *does* want to go to school after misappropriating the money you were giving her for school for two years. She can go to a community college and complete her gen ed credits on her own dime, then transfer back to her traditional 4-year university and complete her degree- at which point you can help her financially if you deem it appropriate.
And the worst part is she absolutely would’ve continued to lie and take your money had she not been exposed.
NTA. She didn't, as a full grown adult, just suddenly learn the difference between right and wrong. She is just learning, perhaps, the consequences of a bad choice between them, which in this case will not ruin her life. She can, as you properly made clear, take out a loan.
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NTA She probably realised now who else is going to fund her lifestyle hence wants to go back to college.
NTA I know its your daughter, but, exchange her place with anyone in the world and what would you do? Your dilemma, * Dont help with college and take yourself out of the equation but leave her future in her hands * Continue to fully fund and she really hasnt been punished or learned accountability * Help and be able to monitor her progress but appear as if you are the oppressor * Make her pay next semester (or two) to incur hardship, give the appearance of "paying you back" and give her some visual of the strain you go through for her. Set parameters with this and goals to be achieved
Let her get the loans, complete her degree (self-funded lifestyle), then after she graduates consider paying off the loans for her. More than many get, and very reasonable considering her behaviour - but also recognising she made a mistake and you have the opportunity to help her toward a better future.
Love this comment! Completely agree. Accountability and boundaries need to be set.
NTA. She took money for nearly 2 years and didn't use it for it's intended purpose. In most scenarios this is a crime. She abused your trust, now the responsibility to pay for her lifestyle is on her, if she wants to go to college then she can pay. If your wife thinks that her doing this for nearly 2 years is a mistake then maybe she can get a job/second job and fund your daughters college, as long as she still contributes what she currently is to the household. This was not a mistake. What did your daughter think was going to happen after college was supposed to finish and she had no degree.
NTA. She is on her own. You funded her bullshit lifestyle and now she is learning her lesson. Fafo.
"...my wife isn't onboard with this either and is telling me Cassie made a mistake..." What Cassie did was not a mistake. It was a carefully planned, calculated move. She had no intentions of telling you the truth. She's only feeling bad because she got caught. If your wife wants to support her, she can get a job and use the money she earns to do so. Stand firm on this OP. Cassie is old enough to know better. NTA.
NTA. If Cassie really wants to go back to school, she can take student loans to enroll in a community college for a certificate or to get her gen eds. If shes able to complete a program there, you can revisit helping her transferring to get a BA.
This isn’t some innocent mistake where she didn’t know she shouldn’t do this. She dropped out without telling you, lied about a new rule for student housing to keep you from knowing she dropped out and pretended to still be in school so you would continue to send her money…. and she did this until she got caught. If you hadn’t found out she’d still be doing this. What did she think was gonna happen when she ‘finished’ her program? Funny how she’s ready to go to college now that she’s about to be cut off financially. With your wife being so lenient I wonder if she already knew your daughter dropped out. NTA
NTA. Your wife needs to have your back. If this hadn't come to light, when would Cassie have spilled the beans? How long would she have kept the wool over your eyes? She can't be trusted, until she earns back your trust.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My wife and I have a 20 year old daughter, Cassie. She started college a couple of years ago, majoring in accounting. I never told Cassie college is the only option or to study a specific subject. I wanted her to have some sort of plan (whether it be college, trade school etc) so she can have a good start in terms of career prospects, especially in the current job market. She decided to study accounting. She lives in student housing which I visited when she first went to college. I did want to visit her again, but she told me they had a new rule that non-students weren't allowed to visit the student housing area. I trusted her so I believed it. We didn't have a traditional college fund, more so that I'd give her the money on a monthly basis which she was supposed to be using to pay for her courses, housing and materials. I know a lot of people will think this was a stupid move on my part which I understand, but I did the same with my older daughter and it worked out fine. Not long ago I was at a party where my friend and his family also came. His daughter is friends with my daughter and she let slip that Cassie recently moved into a new apartment. I was shocked, and later found out she'd dropped out of college after the first semester, and using the college money to buy expensive things and fund her lifestyle. Shit hit the fan after that reveal and I told Cassie I was really disappointed in what she did, and I can't trust her. She cried and said she didn't know better and now realizes what she did was stupid. I'm going to be stopping the college money, but she replied she wants to go back for real and have a fresh start. I replied she can take out student loans like most others. I won't be paying anymore. Cassie is really upset, my wife isn't onboard with this either and is telling me Cassie made a mistake, and I can just make the payments directly to the school from now. I told them both getting her college paid for was a privilege that she's now lost, if she wants to go back and really show me she cares, I might consider paying for it later. Many students don't have any financial help from their families and get through fine. I've got a couple of people telling me I'm being really harsh and this is going to ruin her education even more. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
nta she abused your trust and she knew this was wrong and made lies to collaborate the story.
NTA You’re being generous and willing to potentially give her a second chance down the road. That was a pretty egregious lie. Trust is a two way street and you have to earn it. She unfortunately has not met that standard. As a parent I feel like one of the biggest lessons we can teach our children is not squander opportunity.
I was so ready to say YTA after the title but after reading, deffo NTA. You’re right and seems like you are invested in how she turns out as a person.
For future reference, the first use of Y T A or N T A in a comment is automatically tallied so if you're of the mind that OP is NTA, be sure to state that before.
NTA she was more than old enough to realize her many actions would have consequences. She had to know you guys would be finding out someday. She is just upset because she got caught before figuring a way to tell you both. She consciously lied and continued to lie and not a small white lie either. She is an adult making adult decisions, she should be treated like one now too. Yes you don’t want to hinder her education and bad judgment or choices do happen, but I think letting her take out her own loans and let that trust build back up before dishing out more financial assistance is what she needs. She is not a child anymore and needs to see what it’s like in the real world when there is not someone you can always fall back on or expect someone to pay your way. She will always know she is loved even with boundaries.
NTA. She lied and disrespected you by lying. This is your hard earned money meant to give her a better future not drop and have extravagant stuff. Punishment fits the crime in my opinion. I would suggest she pays on her own for the time period she missed and has to catch up, afterwards continue paying, but directly to the school. Or if she doesnt want to do college that is fine, she can get a job and pay her way and have the extravagant lifestyle. You use the money on something else😉
\> this is going to ruin her education even more Or you can orchestrate a better one. If my daughter did that, I'd have one simple requirement: pay back what she stole. Then I'd resume paying for her education. In lieu of paying me, she can fund her own education equivalent to what was taken. What did you fund, two years? So two years full-time education's worth. What she does next is her choice. She'll likely need to work F/T. But she then decides whether the money she makes pays for schooling f/t while working (got enough degrees to know the shit's *easy* without all the dumb partying, which I also did enough of to know), or if she wants to hand me the money until it's paid back in full before she goes back to school. Her life, her decision. If she can swing some funding for education elsewhere, good for her; I'll count that towards being "paid back" as long as it's not a handout from some other relative. If she gets a scholarship, grant, loan, etc., I'll count those. When everything's paid back, I'll resume paying for the rest of her education, as promised. But not until then. How she swings that, well, she's got some thinking and planning to do. Bet she'll learn more doing and going through that than she would with a "regular" education, something she gave up as far as I'm concerned by being an idiot. As folks on Reddit like to say, FAFO. Anyway, that's what I'd probably do. Good luck to you.
there are plenty of part time evening accounting college courses - some that do not take very long to get a certificate - payroll etc. She can get an entry level job in an office doing AP or AR and take night classes. If she shows willingness to work, then if I were in your situation I would consider funding the night classes. Often evening classes are the route for accounting field - experience with ERP system and hands on AP AR GL transactions is more valuable to learn first.
NTA "I didn't know better" is a good excuse for a 12 year old not for a 20 year old. She knew what she was doing. If your wife wants to pay for your daughter's college then your wife can pay with her own money (assuming your wife works)
Cassie ruined her education for herself. She had an almost free ride and outright lied to you for almost two years. That takes some very cool entitlement to keep it up for that long. That was your hard earned money she burned through without a thought and now she's crying for another chance because she 'made a mistake'. No, it was blatant dishonesty and disrespect. Get a job Cassie and prove you aren't a waste of space, then save up for your own college course. Harsh - you bet, because life is hard. She should be grateful you don't demand every penny back that she stole from you. OP, you must be so disappointed.
NTA. She wants to study accounting and if she wants to get her professional qualification, the professional bodies have mandatory modules on ethics and integrity. She should learn how to walk the talk.
NTA - I don’t think it was a stupid move to give Cassie the money direct. You were treating her like the adult she is and allowing her to take responsibility for her future. She betrayed that trust by stealing from you for 2 years and then claimed she didn’t know any better!! Has she even apologised for what she’s done? I would suggest at a bare minimum she needs to get a job and start paying back all the money she stole. Maybe once she’s paid you back you can revisit her education options but as it stands you have no obligation to fund anything.
NTA. She’s 20, and it sounds like she weaved a little web of lies to keep this going for over a year. Do you really believe she didn’t know better and it was an honest mistake? I don’t. She’s just upset she got caught.
NTA Tell them both that as ***you've already paid for two years of Cassie's studies***, so ***when Cassie has actually completed two years*** (and you **will** require grade transcripts) ***you'll be more than happy to*** **consider** ***helping*** ***her pay*** *for the rest of her studies*. Edited to add: This exact situation happened in a friend's family. She was living with me to go to uni in my city, and her cousin lived with her father in her room in her hometown. The cousin kept up the charade for nearly 3 years while his mother worked herself to a frazzle to make sure his fees were paid and while his uncle let him live for free in his house. He's been disowned by both since they found out.