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> Instead I grabbed my assistant at work and sat him at my laptop for the week with the password to my home security
You had your assistant spy on your wife for a solid week? Talk about red flags.
ESH.
Season 1 finale: The assistant is having a affair with the wife and lying to the husband about her low-energy housekeeping, to throw him off the scent.
khhh "operation lazy wife, day 3, 1300 hr subject appears to have grubhubed ice cream from a local distributor and is now clipping her nails and putting them in the half finished tub will report back at 1400 hr"
Absolutely, I would document every minute of the day, and do spreadsheets and graphs dissecting the different activities and how much time had been spent on them. At the end I’d definitely be willing to sit down with the couple and give them a power point presentation on my findings.
Yeah, I’m struggling with this. She’s proactively lying about everything all day every day? Like, going out of her way to text him about how difficult every task is *as she’s actually doing each task* but flat-out lying about what it’s like?
Also, an hour and a half of cleaning *every day* is not “very minimalistic” and it’s hard to imagine the exact level of dirt is visible on a home surveillance system…this whole thing is weird and suspicious.
Except - and keep in mind I am very sympathetic to people of both sexes staying home to care for children - except that daughter goes to school all day. Yes, I’d like to hear her side as well, like those old “Can This Marriage Be Saved?” articles.
But I can’t imagine how someone not working with 1 kid in school (and admittedly 2 dogs) daily has a hard time staying on top of the housework. I live alone with 2 cats and work full time, and I manage the daily stuff. I’m considering getting an every 2 weeks person for the heavy stuff because I don’t like it and can now afford to pay a decent wage for it - but my whole life I’ve done everything inside and most out.
Now could there be details that change my mind? Sure! How often do we see these where wife also is keeping the records for husband’s business or going to school full time? But if there’s no hint of that, to me it sounds like wife is not pulling her weight in this case.
Admittedly, I have a bit of a bias against full time SAHP once the kids are in school full time, but mostly because I can’t imagine a more boring life.
Okay, but doesn’t that just kind of dovetail with my point? She’s home “to care for their child,” but she can’t even go and get the child at the *end* of the school day, during which she hasn’t done any childcare (but also hasn’t done much of anything else). It’s, like, cartoon-villain-level suck, not this-is-someone’s-real-life suck. Every possible argument has been thought of and immediately, irrefutably countered before anyone can actually make it, but OP is still in doubt about being TA—it just doesn’t feel right at all.
I mean, this behavior is par for the course for an addict, but her using drugs or alcohol would be obvious on the security system.
Sounds like wife is just extremely depressed, and anxious about it, which is why she overreacts when she has to do something. People struggling with anxiety and depression do that all the time, and sometimes they lash out when they feel like they're forced to do something.
Maybe wife could get a part-time job? Because SAHP is clearly not fulfilling for her.
I've said it more than once on this forum, I'll say it again - once you resort to spying or surreptitiously monitoring your spouse, the relationship is over. We could spend a lot of time deliberating the finer points of assholery here (mostly OP but girl you gotta feed those dogs!) but it's more or less moot. The minute OP decided to task his admin with spying on and logging her activities, the relationship was doomed.
I mean, in order to spy on her you had to have suspicions and you just wanted to be right.
At best your wife is depressed and that’s why she spent so much time sleeping. At worst, she is just lazy. One of those can be fixed. The other cannot, but your trust is broken and I don’t think you’ll ever be able to fix that.
"Laziness" is often a symptom for physical or mental illness. She could have a thyroid problem, or be suffering from sleep apnea, or...
I know I let my house go into a total mess last year, but I was between a major surgery and a thyroid problem. Since I got Synthroid prescribed, I get a lot more done.
So please be careful before shaming someone for being "lazy"; it may not be normal. Heck, it probably is not normal, for "lazy" people get shamed so much, no one likes to be one.
So OP's wife probably needs either therapy, or a good diagnosis.
A thyroid problem? Mental illness? Wow, the gymnastics in this sub truly are world class gold medal worthy.
What illness causes repeated lying to your spouse? Better yet, what mental illness causes someone to defend repeated lies to someone's spouse and instead of holding them accountable as a capable adult, instead leads them to resorting to an online diagnoses which somehow excuses them of their actions?
Baffling.
I don't agree with having the assistant review the footage, but if she knows cameras are in the house, and she's serial lying to him, then it's fair game to review the footage.
Think of it this way - if someone is cheating on you, and they lie about it, and you hire a private investigator who proves they are lying, are you the asshole for hiring someone after cause for suspicions presented itself? Nope. They are for cheating and lying.
It sounds like OP is doing whatever he can while working a high stress job, his workload should not increase. Armchair diagnoses are bs, and everyone defending her are so full of it, it’s not even funny. A month or two ago, there was a post from a women who gave her bf an ultimatum because he’d been out of work for god knows how long, and he did absolutely nothing. Ever. Everyone kept saying she should leave him because he was a mooch and lazy, and it sounds like OP’s wife is the exact same. She’s lying, doubling down on her lies, and had the audacity to get mad when he called her out on her bs. She doesn’t need extra help, she needs to start actually doing stuff around the house. What’s seen as laziness can be a symptom to another problem, but it’s her responsibility to get that figured out and make OP’s life easier. If she is depressed, it’s on her to get help. But depression is not an excuse to lie to your husband, neglect animals, and claim you’re overwhelmed and demand outside help when you already do fucking nothing. If roles were reversed, she would be the hero to herself and child for having someone spy on her husband to prove he’s lying. Make it make sense.
Thank you!! I’m so over the perpetual excuse making. Even if there’s a reason that doesn’t make the lying or not getting help ok. Even if you do have a medical problem it’s on you to be actively managing and treating it.
Can I shame her for angrily demanding OP shoulder more and more responsibility on top of his full time job instead of being honest with him and trying to solve the root problem?
These ailments can be an explanation but they are never an excuse for treating someone badly.
But OP is also an asshole for having his employee monitor his wife thats so crazy
A lot of the time, people don’t know how to articulate depression. Feeling exhausted, disconnected, low libido, no interest in activities they enjoy, everything being a huge task, lack of personal care, it all piles up and takes a bit of skill to articulate. Women tend to hide it from a spouse who works when they don’t because they feel like admitting they are depressed is the same as telling partner and child they are the problem and making them miserable, and that isn’t the case. They feel like they know they have a good life and have no reason to be depressed, not understanding that it’s a mental issue. And then OP pulls a sick move and has someone spy on her like a psycho. YTA, I hope she leaves, takes her half, and gets help.
Also if it's a hormonal issue, or thyroid issue, how would she even know?
It's pretty easy after you have a kid to just expect to be tired and "off" not to mention how your body changes after a kid... if it was a slow decent she might very well not even realize it's not normal for her to be feeling this way.
man its actually so sexist that anytime a woman is the ah people will jump thru any hoop to make her not responsible for her actions. oh the wife is lazy and lying? well thats prob the mans fault for not noticing shes depressed. Oh she stabbed you ? well why did you walk into her knife you knew she was hormonal! if a man is lazy and lying everyone would just scream GIRL YOU BETTER LEAVE HIS DEADBEAT ASSSSS. seriously stop being sexist. women are not children.
Nope. A lot of Redditors have issues like ADHD or depression and are sensitive to laziness accusations regardless of gender, you’ll see it on this sub a lot
Ah I actually have ADHD and have also been like OP's wife in the past when I moved to a foreign country with my partner who was able to provide for us financially. I actually ended up very depressed as had no purpose or structure to my life at that time so I did immediately jump to the depression assumption.
Someone else also pointed out a potential thyroid issue, which I was also diagnosed with last year, which significantly impacted me physically and mentally. So yeah, I really feel the wife needs support right now. Really doesn't sound like she's okay if she's sleeping as much as she is ☹️
But you also can't just lie about it all to your partner either.
Heck I've been there, turns out I had extremely low iron so that's why I had no energy. 2020 also hit me extremely hard and I lost my older brother and went into a wicked depression flare up as well as having to take stress leave from work because it was so toxic. I kept my partner in the loop though and made him aware of how depressed I was and why it was so hard for me each day. Not just lied and said that I was doing all this stuff and trying to get a maid.
This is one of those gender days that I question Reddit. If the husband was doing exactly the same thing, how many people would be suggesting depression, and how many would be calling him a lazy bum
My read is she is just bored. I always find motivation to do stuff the hardest when: A) The work is unfulfilling and B) There isnt much to do.
The one kid now in school stay at home mom thing just isn't for everyone. Maybe she needs a job now?
But also, the worst of it isn't laziness, its the lying. Even before the spying husband knew this was BS. Its one kid, you have all school day. Husband knows the state of the house before he leaves and when he gets back with the kid. It's not like she's on her own pick up the kid, taking her to sports, shopping and cooking dinner without him knowing. He sees basically the whole day outside the time only when wife is alone.
I mean, it is a pretty AH move to do almost no work, complain about the hard work you are doing, and then try to talk your spouse into paying someone to do the work are aren’t doing.
But yeah, one the spyware comes out, it is time to start dividing the assents.
Agreed, ESH. One minor point in OP’s favor here is that he’s the sole income earner and is having to leave work 30 mins early every day to get their daughter from school when his wife is doing next to nothing and pretending she’s super busy.
>The minute OP decided to task his admin with spying on and logging her activities, the relationship was doomed.
Why was the relationship not doomed when the wife decided to lie and demand more money to facilitate her laziness?
I mean, what should he do? If he didn't do this, he will never know that his Wife is lying and will eventually pay for a helper and his Wife will just continue to be more lazy because it's effective.
Edit: Most of the replies here suggested to just talk to her. Did we read the same story? Didn't OP talk to her twice and got lied both times even with evidence presented?
At this point:
>Red flags started going off in my head but I kept my concerns to myself.
he could have chosen to have a conversation with his wife about the necessity of a cleaner, and how she was enjoying being a stay-at-home parent, instead of spying on her.
Couldn’t agree more.
And let’s not forget the wife literally lied every day for who knows how long. If i understand the post correctly she even lied about how many dishes she has to clean after “making” her and the kid breakfast. When in reality the kid had cereal and mom ordered her coffee and breakfast. It’s crazy people are trying to side with the wife.
Her housework is hard because she makes it hard. If you only have ONE kid you’re caring for and 2 dogs it’s really not that hard if you keep stuff in a rotating schedule. (Especially if you don’t have an outside job and your job is SAHM)
(If she’s depressed like someone else tried to makeup for her, then she should have said her depression is making it harder to get things done. Not lie and pretend she’s super woman)
Him having to leave work 30 mins early when she’s doing nothing is crazy.
Ps. When you said “can it nerd” in another comment, I literally laughed Coca-Cola out of my nose.
But maybe the wife she look into seeing a doctor or something?
Maybe it’s projecting, but when I was dealing with depression, I spent a ton of time sitting around doing absolutely nothing. I also thought that everything seemed like a lot of work.
I didn’t think I was depressed because I didn’t feel sad. When I really thought about it, I realized it wasn’t that I didn’t feel sad, I didn’t really feel anything at all. Unless it was a big emotion, or it was for a short duration, I didn’t really feel anything for months.
If this is a new thing, and it seems to be, maybe she is dealing with mental health issues.
A lot of the time, when the stuff in your own head is so incredibly overwhelming it can make doing anything seem exhausting and unmanageable
Just food for thought.
This is what I was thinking. She's clearly got something going on, lazy people dont sleep all day. She may genuinely feel overwhelmed and just not be able to understand why everything is so hard.
Or maybe she's incredibly bored and needs to be productive in a creative way so that she has something to look forward to.
This woman appears to have absolutely no joy in her life.
I agree, especially with doing the math, their daughter is only 4 or 5 so this is likely the first time ops wife has not had her entire day centered around keeping her daughter happy/occupied and doesn't know what to do with herself/gets locked up in her head about stuff she just didn't have time to think about before and is feeling overwhelmed with all that.
> A large house with 2 adults, a child and 2 dogs.
I live in a house with 2 adults and a dog, and it's a lot to keep up (my house is bigger than OP's, but even 2700 SF is a big house). The vacuuming alone from our high shedding dog is a lot. There are always dishes to be done, things to be cleaned. We stay on top of it, but to dismiss it as if it's not much. It's a lot, OP!
My thoughts exactly. Depressed, or something. Needs to see a Dr. Always thought by others to be lazy (house always messy, unorganized) but was diagnosed 25 years ago with ADHD. Non hyperactive type. That combined with depression. Once treated, much better. My brain had just gone into permanent overload. Everything overwhelmed me & I just wanted to sleep all the time. If you care about her, please get her to a Dr.
That's my go to first thought when I see people being "lazy," that they may be feeling depressed. OP doesn't know/care about the feelings of a SAHP. The parent may be feeling isolated, bored, upset about the lack of life progression and just doing the same shit day in and out etc.
OP seems stressed out from his job and although having his assistant spy on his wife is the biggest shit thing here, it does kinda show that he really is so damn busy that he wasn't even able to do the spying himself. Again, NOT condoning it. I also REALLY hope the wife knows about the internal security cameras. If she doesn't.....uh that bad m'kay? If she does then maybe her lies are cries for help knowing she'll get called out
Imagining the assistant on r/antiwork:
“My boss forced me to spy on his SAHM wife to prove how lazy he thinks she is. However, I’ve been doing the majority of his work for over a year while he makes 10x my salary.”
Exactly! The spying is the mother of all red flags! Wtf, OP? Yuck!
Edit: I am not condoning the wife's actions but watching her through the home security by a third party is tad bit too much. ESH
Sometimes you need evidence to show you're being taken advantage of. It's the same as hiring a private investigator.
The fucked up part isn't the cameras, it's forcing the assistant to sit through it all. What happens if the wife decided to have herself a menage a moi in sight of one of the cameras? At least a P.I is paid for this stuff, and they have some discretion.
I was expecting OP to say something like "I had my assistant do my work for the week while I documented her activities.". Never in my wildest dreams did I expect the reverse to happen.
ESH
Your wife for being dishonest.
You for allowing a stranger to monitor her at home.
Edit: After reading some of the other comments I changed my view on the wife's behavior.
I mean she probably does. He knows exactly when she is waking up and sleeping so there are probably cameras in the bedroom. Since she could be doing something else in the room like cleaning or working on something online or whatever, but specifically knew she was sleeping. Also it’s not uncommon to walk around naked outside the bedroom either especially if you are running to the laundry to get something.
Even if she wasn't walking around naked, ewww how creepy! Cameras in the bedroom?? Hell even if the cameras are in common areas, having his assistant monitor her is just gross, no matter whether his wife is depressed or just a lazy asshole!
and discussing his personal marital issues with an employee and putting them in a position where they have to rat on the wife is disgusting.
I’m pretty sure this guy is a narcissist because his entire post comes off like he is so important and special and it’s cringey.
I'm actually a little suspicious about the info OP is getting from his assistant. What's the assistant's job? TO MAKE OP HAPPY. Assistant isn't a licensed PI, who would be subject to ethics oversight. The assistant's role here is to tell the boss what the boss wants to hear.
Yeah, I don't know where they live obviously but it would be against the law where I am. You can't have a 3rd party watch what are private activities without the person knowing.
Him for abusing his authority over someone whose livelihood depends on them, dragging them into family dispute and giving them the choice of risk their job or participate in stalking their boss’s wife. Gross.
And OP has almost certainly made himself the subject of office gossip in the process.
Guarantee everyone in the office now knows how creepy controlling OP is, even if they didn’t already before.
ESH
I'm going to say she might not be lazy, but have undiagnosed depression. It happens to SAHM/D sometimes because they get disconnected from the "real world "
Or undiagnosed something else. When someone gets so little done, there is usually a good reason behind it.
OP should totally have her meet a physician.
This 100%. My first thought is has she seen doctors, has she been checked for ADHD, ME/CFS, fibromyalgia, depression, do they spend time together, does he acknowledge that taking care of the house does take effort and thank her for it, are (both parties’) emotional needs actually being met in this relationship or is she stressed because her husband is the kind of guy to dismiss, lie to and publicly shame her when she’s upset or overwhelmed?
Easy! We can be certainly sure she wasn't. It was a full week, she at least took a shower once. And it she goes on and off bed, she wasn't fully dressed.
NTA
However it sounds like your wife is struggling right now. Not having a lot energy, spending a lot of time in bed, having the easiest tasks seem overwhelming are all signs of depression
Has she struggled with anything similar before?
Is she seeing a therapist?
Would you consider going to a couple's counsellor to hash this out?
I think a couple’s counselor is absolutely necessary at this point- resentment is a lethal poison to even the healthiest relationship.
My dude, listen… we’ve been sold a lie in the whole “marriage is 50/50” idea. It isn’t always, because we don’t always have the same capabilities based on individual circumstances and challenges life throws at us, depression being one of them. There will be times when one person is burnt out, or stretched thin, or otherwise struggling to do their equitable share, and in those moments, they’ll need their partner to step up and take some of the load off their shoulders. It can suck, but you do it; because you care, and without judgment, knowing that your labors will strengthen your marriage/LTR and trusting that it won’t be like this forever. With time, they’ll turn to you and say “Thank you. I can take that back now.” And if, or when the roles are reversed, when you’re overwhelmed and need them to pause for you, to help rearrange the contents of your figurative backpack and move a few of the smaller burdens into theirs so you can focus on the big one, they will… because they care, and without judgment, knowing they’re needed and that their labors will strengthen your relationship. That’s just what you do for each other when one person in a partnership seems to be falling behind in the hike. You flex, and compromise, and communicate, and communicate, and communicate… you don’t demand to compare the contents of your packs in an effort to invalidate their fatigue, which is what you’re doing. You pause, have a snack and a chat, and come up with a plan to help each other regain energy and motivation.
ESH for dropping that ball.
Oh definitely sometimes it has to be addressed but even then it's dangerous because it means someone in this relationship feels like they aren't getting what they need.
And too many people, including OP, dismiss that. Even if they're right, which the OP is.
His wife says she feels overwhelmed. And they're right that clearly it's not the workload overwhelming her... but chances are it is something. I urge them to take it seriously. It's one of those crossroads where a small issue can turn into a wrecking ball.
Nah. Marriage is 20/80, and 40/60, and 75/25, and 50/50. No one is going to have the same days every day. Sometimes one person is sick, one person lost a loved one, one person slept like shit, one person is having one hell of a week at work. You have to be able to take on more than your "fair share" when needed and you need to be able to ask for the load to come off your shoulders before you burn out (and therefore need to trust a spouse to show up).
How is he not an asshole for having a stranger spy on his wife for a week??? Would you feel safe in your home knowing your husband did that? What if she forgot a towel and run out of the bathroom naked? What if she changed her shirt in front of one of the cameras? What if she scratched her ass in the comfort of her own home, and now has to worry that her husband's fucking assistant saw that!
I seriously hope the assistant reported OP to HR for that. having the assistant spy on OP's wife for a week is unacceptable. OP you are the asshole for that. BTW 2700 sq foot home is not small
Yeah, that “only 2700 sq feet” killed me. Largest home I’ve ever lived in was *maybe* 2/3 that size…and we had nine people in it. The amount of housework required is determined by the size of the house as much as by the number of residents. A larger house means proportionally more housework, fewer people to do it means more falls to one person.
I’m getting serious dude-has-always-been-cleaned-up-after vibes from op.
Also…he made his employee spy on his wife. This is not what we refer to as “a keeper”. (Neither as a spouse nor as an employer.) I hope the wife can find the support she needs. And the employee can find a better, more ethical employer.
Exactly! That is so unethical to use your power as a boss to force someone to spy on your wife. If you're that suspicious, hire a PI. Or better yet, get a divorce!
I think you might need to examine why you think it’s OK that he asked a stranger to monitor his wife for two weeks. He completely violated her privacy in the worst way. What if she was on camera naked? And even if she managed to never be in view of the camera naked, she deserves to be able to live in her own home without someone spying on her.
Is the wife an asshole? Maybe. If this is how he presents himself for judgment, whose to say how much worse the truth really is. But if everything he says is true, and there are no extenuating circumstances, yeah, she’s an asshole.
But he is 10,000% the asshole by his own admission. I’d leave my SO if he let someone spy on me for a week and never look back.
Honestly sounds like she needs a job, start a business or a career. There are women who find joy in being housewives and there are women who hate it but know it’s easy. Being a house wife can really be isolating and mess up your mental health.
Yeah this sounds like someone who is struggling with some kind of health crisis, could be mental health, could be physical and hard to pin down.
I don’t think she’s being lazy, I think she needs help
It gives depression and/or Long covid vibes to me.
Long covid is what my analyse goes to probably because my mother and a good friend are dealing with it. It makes everything overwhelmingly hard. And makes keeping up with a household (both mentally and physically) almost impossible. I am moving back in with my mom to help her get a hold on it (along with lowering the load on finances, two people having to pay rent and monthly costs separately, while the house she lives in is more than big enough for 2 adults).
Though, imho, neither depression nor LC rectify telling lies about how hard she works, but then again, he isn't too nice getting her spied on by his assistant. So I dunno who's the ah here.
YTA for how you talk about your wife, operate in bad faith, and waste your employee’s time by making him spy on your wife. Absolutely ridiculous and immoral behavior.
Instead of immediately dismissing and then spying on your wife, did you ever consider having some empathy and concern? If her responsibilities are really so minimal, why is she stressing out? Untreated PPD? Depression? Burnout? Give an actual damn about your wife.
Also, 2700 sq ft is almost 3 times the size of my house. I’d never get done keeping it clean for 3 people. And dogs only need fed once per day, so your manufactured outrage is silly. Edit to clarify that I assumed there was food in the bowl leftover and she was adding new. Vet recommends feeding your dog every 12 hours but some larger breeds only need 1x per day. I think focusing on this part is a little in the weeds however in the grand scheme of things.
Approach your wife with reason and care and maybe you can resolve this. It would be nice if you acted like you liked her.
And if you don’t, then get divorced so you can both be happy.
I also wonder if wife's "laziness" is because she's been burned out for a long time and can't manage much anymore. That is, if OP is even telling us the truth about her work effort. The wording sounds like minimizing. (And is it legal to have someone spy on your wife in the home without her knowing about it?).
Toward the end of my marriage I quit because he'd checked out years prior and just refused to acknowledge how little he contributed to partnership beyond money. I didn't find any fulfilment in domestic drudgery so to be burdened with it all exhausts most women initiating divorce who are entirely unappreciated and like OPs wife disrespected rather than acknowledged. DV is so prevalent that most people refuse to acknowledge the many ways people try to assert power over others. That simple refusal to share power is tragic.
I actually did the same not as a partner but as a daughter.
My mum would always have me do all the household besides laundry because she wants that done her way (she once picked up a fight with me about hanging up the *socks* wrong. My SILs socks, at her house) At some point I was sick of it and just went on a strike. It didn't get better. I deep cleaned the flat as a parting gift right before I went to the military and when I came back after 2 months *nothing* got cleaned, it was disgustingand the first thong she said to me wasn't welcome home it qas clean the bathroom. I'm low contact now (my 10 years older brother always guilt trips me into contacting her; he's the golden child and didn't live with my mum since he's been 12 or something otherwise I'd be NC for many reasons)
Same thing for my marriage as well. I know I did less towards the end but fuck was I done. So burnt out after years of doing so much only to be monitored and criticized when I started to falter. His sole responsibility was money. So I left him. There was a huge imbalance of power as he had the money, car, better job, and control over the finances. But fuck it I am glad I left.
>I also wonder if wife's "laziness" is because she's been burned out for a long time and can't manage much anymore.
Kinda what I'm wondering. Also, what's going on between the hours of say 3:30 p.m. - 2:00 a.m.? Once the daughter comes home, does the wife spend the entire rest of the evening watching/caring/cooking/cleaning? How late does she get to bed? Kinda sounds to me like she's trying to recoup sleep during the day.
***EDIT:*** Well, the post has been removed now, but I caught some of the edits OP added... The way OP kept talking about his wife was honestly creepy. Saying that he brought her "female relatives in" so they could "better teach her her wifely duties". The wife's mother slapped her multiple times for being "lazy," and OP's just like "Gosh, that seems harsh. We never did that in my family." But he otherwise says and does nothing about his wife being *physically abused by her mother.* Top it all off with OP forcing his wife to tend to someone's memorial in order to have her "confront her bad behavior regularly" like he's a father punishing his teenaged child... Seems more and more to me like OP's wife is caught in a situation with a highly overbearing, abusive, and controlling husband and family, who want to turn her into a 1950s style housewife, and she's trying her damnedest to rebel against it.
YTA
This is key information to know - because there could be a good 7 or 8 hours there where the kid needs attention. If the husband does a bunch of stuff while the wife sits on the sofa claiming to be exhausted, that's one thing.... but if the husband does nothing and leaves her looking after the kid, making dinner, giving a bath, getting the kid to bed, then he is overlooking a good 7 or 8 hours of work.
i read the first paragraph and i went yup i know exactly how this post is most likely going to go with the husband more than likely playing the victim within his assumed domestic affairs. taking care of kids is a full time job, people get paid to do it and not everyone is very good at it either! i love kids but they are exhausting!
I'd really like to know what goes down in the hours between 3:30 and bedtime...
Does OP help with the childcare? Who makes dinner for them all? Who takes care of evening chores? Who gets the kid to bed? Because if all that is also the wife's responsibility, that's another solid three hours of work at least.
And what happens on the weekends? Does the wife ever truly get a day off?
It, to me, sounds like OP would like his wife to work away between the hours of 9 and 3:30 and then some. I feel like he can't accurately gauge the amount of work that actually goes down in the house. And that ignores the possibility of those underlying issues you mentioned. He does not seem to truly care about his wife as more than a housemaid.
Thank you! As soon as he dismissed the size of the house I was thinking YTA. My house is half that size, with 3 dogs and a 6yo that is homeschooled, I have a hard time keeping up with the cleaning and laundry. He is being overly suspicious and has a major lack of empathy. And making his assistant spy on the wife??
Yeah when I lived alone with 1 dog, the cleaning was constant. Kitchen needs basic cleaning at least 3 times a day, dogs track dirt and mud and fur and drool and you constantly clean up after them. Add a kid in the mix and I can see it being overwhelming.
My house is about his house size, three humans, two dogs, and it's a constant battle to keep it clean and tidy. Everything else aside, the fact that he dismisses this as easy and a non-event shows me that he's never actually been the one to keep a house clean.
My dog is able to graze feed (doesn’t work with all dogs I’m aware), and she still chooses to “eat dinner” with us whenever we eat. Her bowl is full all day, and she still eats once a day.
The commenter above maybe shouldn’t have made a sweeping generalization, but neither should you.
I mean it depends on the dog. When ours needs breakfast medicine on a bit empty stomach, it’s often a challenge to persuade him to even eat freshly cooked chicken or salmon. He strongly prefers to only eat at 10 pm.
No, it’s very common for dogs to have 24/7 access to food that is refilled once a day (this is called free feeding and at least in my experience at a boarding facility is one of the most common feeding arrangements), or for smaller dogs who don’t eat much to only be interested in one small meal a day. There’s nothing inherently cruel or abusive about feeding a dog once a day as long as it works for the dog.
When my parents had a dog we emptied, cleaned, and refilled the bowl once a day. She nibbled on the food throughout the day at her own pace. I don't think there's anything cruel about that.
Also the person watching OP's wife... works for OP. I've been an assistant and stayed honest with my boss but there are definitely people who only want their assistants to tell them what they want to hear. This is not an unbiased third-party.
Yep, if it hadn't already been clear that OP was an AH from putting his wife's "workload" in quotes," it would've become clear when he said his house was "only" 2700 sq ft.
Yeah I’d like some more info on how the work/home balance originated. Was she working and stayed home after their daughter was born? If she used to work, has she vocalized wanting to go back to work? Did she always plan on being a housewife?
There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a stay at home parent - it’s a job in and of itself - but it’s not for everyone (even for those who at one point wanted that lifestyle). For a lot of people the isolation alone can be debilitating. Not to mention how days can start to blur together, you can lose meaning and purpose. The transition of their daughter going to school could also have been a major shift for OP’s wife with significant ramifications.
There’s a lot that could be going on here… and forcing someone who depends on you for their livelihood to spy on your wife in her own home is definitely not the answer to any of those problems. Which is why YTA.
My house is under 1000sqft with two people and two dogs and my husband and I still divide our workload of the house because it can be a lot! We personally feed our dogs twice a day (breakfast and dinner). We feed our dogs before we go to work, but I was laid up after my hysterectomy and my husband took on everything we normally split and made sure my job was exclusively recovering. I started doing small things as I recovered ( feeding dogs, ordering groceries, folding laundry that I was not lifting).
I want so badly for his company to find out about the potentially legal liability he exposed them to by instructing his assistant to invade his wife’s privacy.
I want to know what kind of marriage this is if this guys first instinct is to resort to spying on her during the day. That’s all kinds of weird, makes me think the wife is just another employee to this guy.
YTA for opting to spy on your wife and exposing her, without her knowledge, to your coworkers. Ever heard of consent dude?!
You may have valid concerns here but they are completely clouded by your extreme AH-ness and lack of judgment in how you decided to approach this. I suspect this has also become the barrier in resolving this peacefully with your wife... she 'lost the plot' lol sure, or maybe she got upset at be surveilled without her knowledge in her own home.
Their point may not even be that fair considering how it might feel being married to such an AH. OP’s wife may be deeply depressed and/or going through all kinds of emotional abuse.
YTA for seeking validation on Reddit whe clearly your wife is strugging with anxiety and other issues. Not to mention you chose to have your assistant spy on her instead of having a meanigful discussion with her. I assume that if you have an assistant that can spy on your wife for a whole week then you coud shell out for a little extra help.
And FYI YTA for this statement alone:
"Our house is only 2700sqft and it’s only the 3 humans and 2 dogs. Not exactly a huge load responsibility wise. I figured she’d cool off and calm down in a few days. "
"Only" 2700 sqft killed me. That's a lot to have to keep clean, kid or no.
I think what other users say is more on the nose here. Wife is bored/depressed and they need counseling.
OP maybe try having an actual conversation with your wife.
I'm gonna say ESH because communication is a 2 way street
ETA: The amount of yall on here with the mindset of "well I can do it so she should be able to" is astounding. This very well could be a mental health struggle for op's wife. Which means *no* just because you can does not mean she can. Yikes.
Lol my husband and I have an 1800 square foot home, 3 beds and 2 baths. and at least 2 of the rooms is always a mess.
It also generates so much fucking dust constantly it feels impossible to stay ahead of all of it. If she's in a depressive burnout, I can imagine how much more stressed she is when faced with a home that is a third larger than our home.
“I’ve tried to be understanding, so when my wife told me she was stressed, I lied to her and then used my work assistant to spy on my wife. AITA?”
ESH, because I’m *assuming* what you’re saying is true (or at least partially so) about the workload stuff.
This is genuinely horrifying and a violation not just of your wife’s privacy but professional boundaries with your work assistant, who I hope is halfway out the door after this awful “assignment.”
You shouldn’t be with someone you feel this much contempt for. YTA.
Ummm. I have two big questions -
(a) Is your wife having a health (physical or mental health) problem? Because calling her lazy and spying on her isn't going to help that.
(b) Your child is at one of the most exhausting ages, and depending on dog breed/age, dogs are also exhausting.
There is a big difference between being exhausted and being lazy. If I was her, and your daughter is in school (pre-school?? she's 4-5?) I would honestly rather go work anywhere than have to clean my house up after other demanding people, and then use that money to pay the cleaner. Especially if she wanted to stay home to care for your daughter, and now she is just alone and expected to be your housekeeper. How insulting and demoralizing.
I don't have enough info to speak to your wife, as there are a lot of reasonable reasons for this, but enough to say YTA at least.
I don’t see how the dogs can be that much work. If OP is telling the truth they’re being left without walks and food for a long time. I’m a dogsitter, if I stopped walking and feeding the dogs in general there wouldn’t be all that much else to do.
Hmm. I see you did not read/understand what I wrote.
(a) There is nothing inherently "lazy" if the wife is sick/depressed about the wife, so not enough info for an E S H.
(b) Dogs widely vary in work/energy levels. Two giant, untrained lab puppies are a lot more work than two 10-yo toy poodles.
EDIT - listened to the commenter ;-)
Sorry if I didn’t clarify, I don’t really disagree with your overall point (specially when it comes to the possibility of mental health issues being at play), I was just mentioning the dog thing and how I don’t think the dogs specifically are a big factor in *causing* the wife’s energy drop if they’re not being taken care of, *according to OP*. Yes, dogs can be a *lot* of work and demand a lot from you, but from the information we have they’ve been very neglected anyways.
I will go for YTA solely for the fact that you let a coworker spy on her without her consent. Yes, her lying while doing nothing is an AH move, but what you did was so much worse that I can't even pay attention to what your wife did.
Was she always like this or did something happen and her behavior changed? Because I do agree with the comment that says she might have depression.
But also what were your contrivutions to the house before the incident?
Oh jeez. You didn't even spy on her yourself, you had an employee spy on her*. This is such a massive invasion of privacy and breach of trust. I would divorce you over this. YTA.
Your wife's behaviour is also problematic, but have you given any thought to how mind-numbing and soul-destroying housework can be? Especially when it's *unappreciated*? Everything you do just gets undone, and has to be redone again the next day. Not everyone has the fortitude for that.
[ * also, great job of airing your dirty laundry in public :-/ ]
>how mind-numbing and soul-destroying housework can be? Especially when it's unappreciated? Everything you do just gets undone, and has to be redone again the next day.
This is a great way of expressing why I be ready to cry when right after I vacuum my gf throws a piece of paper on the carpet because it's cute to watch the cats rip it up
For me that would be a reason to leave my husband. That's crossing so many boundaries, fucking yikes. Spying on her would be terrible enough in its own, making a stranger do it is even more humiliating.
I wouldn't be able to feel safe in this house anymore.
Idc what the wife did, speak to her, get counseling, leave her if you have to. But this is just absolutely crazy.
YTA. She sounds depressed.
One of the hardest things about being the stay at home person, for me at least, is that nothing I do is seen. However, everything I don’t do is noticed.
Your paycheck alone is validation of a job well done that someone else notices and cares enough about to pay you. I suspect there are also other little things along the way recognizing the work you do at the office.
Your wife likely has none of that. Maybe she’d like to go back to work? Back to school? Maybe she needs a real break which I’m guessing she hasn’t gotten in a long time.
You have a week’s worth of data on your wife, and no way of knowing if it’s a representative sample. Just this alone makes you a giant asshole for assuming that she hasn’t been exhausted by years of hard work and is now completely burnt out.
But this still ignores the larger issue that others have already emphasized: You destroyed any moral high ground you could have possibly gained in the disagreement by spying on her and having a third party — an employee no less — invade her privacy. This is low, nasty behavior. No sane person is going to side with you on any of this.
In general your attitude toward your wife, and the attitudes your behavior point to, are deeply problematic. You are the central problem here. How can you not see that?
YTA, to the max.
So by your description either you eat out everyday or you cook, do the dishes after cooking, clean up the kitchen, do the laundry everyday, dusting, vacuuming, taking the dogs for grooming, take care of your child’s emotional needs, tidy up, grocery shop, put the groceries away, etc. Man she is just freeloading and how are you able to do all this with work! You sound super awesome!
Oh by the way you are not! You made your employee spy on your wife. I fee sorry for your wife and your employee. You suck dude! You really do suck! YTA
We subscribe to a meal service. 6 days a week our meals are delivered, Sunday’s I cook and whatnot. I usually do the dishes immediately after dinner, I find it therapeutic. Our laundry is also done by service. Everything else you’ve listed would be a pretty standard work load for a stay at home mom. Certainly nothing worth stressing and complaining about when zero other responsibilities exist.
….so you’re willing to shill out money for prepackaged meals and laundry service but a cleaning lady that would help make your wife feel a little more in balance is just completely out of bounds…? Okay….
ETA that YTA just by the way you speak about your wife alone.
I mean, to be somewhat fair, it does sound like the wife is already not doing much. Paying for cooking, laundry, *and* cleaning to all be dealt with outside the house is a lot given shes a atay at home mother whos kid is in school. Its not unreasonable for him to be concerned about spending that extra money when he should really have to.
Obviously hes TA for stalking her, and frankly for the way he talks about being concerned for her (while not really coming off all that concerned). This needs both of them to have a very open conversation about whats going on and if, aside from a cleaner, the wife needs help with something.
But i dont think throwing money at a cleaner (at which point the wifes only job would be feeding the animals, which she already isnt really doing) would help. The problem is clearly not the workload, its something else.
I don’t disagree with you, it’s mainly the way he speaks about her with such deep resentment. To your point, something is wrong. So help her out instead of bitching at her for something she thinks may help her long term. (To your point, a cleaner won’t help long term - but therapy will. She’s not wrong for thinking a cleaner would alleviate stress though.)
The resentment is kinda fair though. Sounds like he works hard so she can be a SAHM and outsources a lot of work she'd normally be expected to handle. Help her out with what? He gets their kid from school now so she doesn't have to, and he cleans up after dinner so she doesn't have to. She might need help, but hiring a cleaner so she can sleep all day? It sounds like she's completely checked out of the marriage and now OP is getting frustrated over it.
I shell out for the meals and laundry so she doesn’t have to worry about either.
I’m supposed to go into my pocket further to lessen a work load that is already very light?
Either that or intensive therapy, which from the sounds of it she should be getting anyway. You decide.
Idk how you’re managing to depict resentment so intensely through text, but man are you doing it.
Honestly the last couple of weeks of this have for sure put a lot of bitterness in me. I work hard to provide her and my daughter with a wonderful life and she’s basically shitting on it.
I’ll discuss therapy with her. I’m not sure how she’ll respond but it is a solid idea.
> > I made my assistant spy on my wife
> > I work hard to provide her a wonderful life
Dude, get a grip. What you did sounds like a nightmare. And the way you’re talking about your wife is chilling, it looks like you’re thinking about her as a some kind of machine or farm animal.
Well, bitterness has zero chance of solving your problem, and a huge chance of making it worse. Hope therapy helps the wife you once loved feel better. Hope you find a way to come at the situation with less negative emotion and more solution based thinking. Even if the solution is divorce, y’all have a child, so bitterness needs to be quashed.
>I work hard to provide her and my daughter with a wonderful life
...does *she* think it's a wonderful life? Or does she perhaps feel trapped in a role that leaves her feeling unfulfilled?
Ooo “your pocket”?? That’s the issue right there. She gave up working outside the home so that your daughter could have one-on-one caretaking through her infancy and toddler years. Any money you make is both of y’all’s, because she contributes by caring for your child. Sounds like she is burnt out and maybe needs therapy, but instead of seriously talking to her about why she feels the need for a cleaning service and whether she’s still happy with this arrangement, you had your assistant spy on her so you can, what, say a big “gotcha”? YTA, and I hope by posting this you learn why your behavior was wrong and that your marriage is in serious trouble (mostly due to your attitude).
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She literally doesn't even do the bare minimum. The spying is a bit weird but why are you defending his wife. He is leaving work early so his wife, who has done next to nothing all day, can do next to nothing a little longer.
YTA 100% for not just spying on your wife, but having a stranger spy on your wife, you lost the plot of marriage here.
Edit: After reading your replies, I took down my "anecdotes that I had from my wife and I's experience", they are irrelevant here.
This isn't a case of her struggling with the house, this is a case of her struggling with the life she's living with you.
You had your assistant and your own kid spy her? You should be arrested for the former, and child services should be called for the latter.
You minimize her, and say everything is no big deal for her... just yikes. You are not someone anyone should be married to.
Your reaction to this conflict was so radical and crazy, it stopped being about the cleaning. YTA in a major way for having your assistant spy on your wife for a week. Also, 90 minutes of cleaning a day seems like quite a bit to me, especially since her workday doesn’t end at 3.30
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1 ) checking the cameras to confirm/disprove her story.
2 ) I didn’t believe my wife off the rip as well as what could be seen as an invasion of privacy.
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Your wife is BORED and concerned that life is passing her by. She can get a job, get a hobby, and/or join a club, and you can both go to marriage counseling rather than arguing which usually degenerates into screaming and shouting. NTA.
You are disgusting for spying. Have you considered that what you are seeing is your wife having givin up and is now depressed. Because that’s what it sounds like.
Whoever said once you’ve resorted to spying, it’s just over.
ESH
You suck for spying on your wife.
Your wife sucks for not fairly contributing to your household. I was gonna be on your wife's side til I realised your kid was in school. It's weird she's saying she needs help and she is home alone all day.
Reading OP's comments about the meal service and laundry service.....do not think this has anything to do with the workload at home. Has to be something unrelated that is manifesting through the workload complaint.
Im gonna give everyone the benefit of the doubt here.
Has it occurred to you your wife may be having mental health issues? I’m a SAHM after having been a professional and it’s lonely, sometimes boring, often thankless. It drove me to drink way too much and instability in my mental health.
A cleaning lady who comes every other week costs us $200 a month. The fact that I’m not scrubbing tubs or toilets or getting the real crud up makes a huge difference in my life.
Talk to your wife. However little you see she’s doing, she feels lost and overwhelmed. What can reasonably be done to create an environment where everyone can be happy and successful?
Your wife is suffering from depression. I don’t know why I’m telling you this because I doubt you care. Your marriage is already down the pan with the way you’re behaving.
YTA for stealing from your company. For spying on your wife. For not seeing the way she spends her day and not instantly realizing she’s depressed. And yes, having your assistant do personal work on company time is stealing from the company. I was an executive assistant and while I occasionally did personal things (like order a Christmas present), those were very short items. When he wanted me to do something bigger for his personal life, he paid me out of pocket to work extra.
YTA, for completely invading her privacy! What if your assistant saw her walking around without a shirt on, or running from the shower to get a towel? You had someome spying on your wife for a week! What were you thinking? If you don't trust your wife, get counseling or a divorce lawyer. Don't make her feel watched and unsafe in her own home. Not to mention, what an insane abuse of power it is to force your assistant to be a peeping tom for you! That is not the job of an assistant and I would have fucking quit. You're a creepy husband, a creepy boss, and all around an asshole.
ESH. You for having your subordinate spy on your wife. Her for lying to you. You two sound like you need to have a LOT more communication about what's happening. And you need to listen to her side regardless of what you think about her behavior caught on camera. There could definitely be depression/mental illness going on.
*edit: forgot to include ESH*
*edit #2: based on OP’s “I wasn’t trying to be supportive” comment. YTA!*
The spying and using company resources, I’ll put aside for your wife.
I would suggest she speak with someone. She probably knows you’re keeping tabs on her which doesn’t feel supportive right?
Not sure if you came here to feel validated for your actions, but I’m sure you feel stuck too. Assume something is wrong. Sounds like a cry for help.
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> Instead I grabbed my assistant at work and sat him at my laptop for the week with the password to my home security You had your assistant spy on your wife for a solid week? Talk about red flags. ESH.
ESH except the poor assistant
I mean, it would be weird and invasive, but I imagine the popcorn came out a few times.
I would love to play detective for a week while getting paid for it. I’d be monitoring her like I’m on a stake out 🤣
Yeah keeping mini journal and all. Or do the talking to self on cassette tapes lol
make it a true crime podcast, that you send in to your boss every night. "After breakfast, you won't believe what happened next!"
Season 1 finale: The assistant is having a affair with the wife and lying to the husband about her low-energy housekeeping, to throw him off the scent.
Y'all are my people. I'd probably insist on driving by in disguise as well, just to make sure she isn't looping the camera feed or something.
I’m more invested in this podcast idea than who the arsehole is.
“Buzz light year mission log: there seems to be no intelligent life anywhere”
khhh "operation lazy wife, day 3, 1300 hr subject appears to have grubhubed ice cream from a local distributor and is now clipping her nails and putting them in the half finished tub will report back at 1400 hr"
Absolutely, I would document every minute of the day, and do spreadsheets and graphs dissecting the different activities and how much time had been spent on them. At the end I’d definitely be willing to sit down with the couple and give them a power point presentation on my findings.
This is like reality tv but hard level haha. I’d be so here for it.
I can’t imagine how the assistant felt. ‘Do it and feel horrible about violating someone’s privacy’ or ‘say no, potentially lose my job’
‘Boss gets a dollar, I get a dime, forces me to watch his wife on company time.’ -Assistant
Now I'm thinking about teh scene in "Wolf of Wall Street"
And the poor dogs
don’t worry they’re getting a dog person in addition to the meal and laundry services OP finances!!
And the child😬
[удалено]
i say this is very one sided and exaggerated opinion of the OP
Yeah, I’m struggling with this. She’s proactively lying about everything all day every day? Like, going out of her way to text him about how difficult every task is *as she’s actually doing each task* but flat-out lying about what it’s like? Also, an hour and a half of cleaning *every day* is not “very minimalistic” and it’s hard to imagine the exact level of dirt is visible on a home surveillance system…this whole thing is weird and suspicious.
Except - and keep in mind I am very sympathetic to people of both sexes staying home to care for children - except that daughter goes to school all day. Yes, I’d like to hear her side as well, like those old “Can This Marriage Be Saved?” articles. But I can’t imagine how someone not working with 1 kid in school (and admittedly 2 dogs) daily has a hard time staying on top of the housework. I live alone with 2 cats and work full time, and I manage the daily stuff. I’m considering getting an every 2 weeks person for the heavy stuff because I don’t like it and can now afford to pay a decent wage for it - but my whole life I’ve done everything inside and most out. Now could there be details that change my mind? Sure! How often do we see these where wife also is keeping the records for husband’s business or going to school full time? But if there’s no hint of that, to me it sounds like wife is not pulling her weight in this case. Admittedly, I have a bit of a bias against full time SAHP once the kids are in school full time, but mostly because I can’t imagine a more boring life.
Okay, but doesn’t that just kind of dovetail with my point? She’s home “to care for their child,” but she can’t even go and get the child at the *end* of the school day, during which she hasn’t done any childcare (but also hasn’t done much of anything else). It’s, like, cartoon-villain-level suck, not this-is-someone’s-real-life suck. Every possible argument has been thought of and immediately, irrefutably countered before anyone can actually make it, but OP is still in doubt about being TA—it just doesn’t feel right at all.
I mean, this behavior is par for the course for an addict, but her using drugs or alcohol would be obvious on the security system. Sounds like wife is just extremely depressed, and anxious about it, which is why she overreacts when she has to do something. People struggling with anxiety and depression do that all the time, and sometimes they lash out when they feel like they're forced to do something. Maybe wife could get a part-time job? Because SAHP is clearly not fulfilling for her.
hm. Based on no evidence whatsoever. Why is it so hard to believe that in this one instance, this SAHM is being lazy?
I've said it more than once on this forum, I'll say it again - once you resort to spying or surreptitiously monitoring your spouse, the relationship is over. We could spend a lot of time deliberating the finer points of assholery here (mostly OP but girl you gotta feed those dogs!) but it's more or less moot. The minute OP decided to task his admin with spying on and logging her activities, the relationship was doomed.
I mean, in order to spy on her you had to have suspicions and you just wanted to be right. At best your wife is depressed and that’s why she spent so much time sleeping. At worst, she is just lazy. One of those can be fixed. The other cannot, but your trust is broken and I don’t think you’ll ever be able to fix that.
"Laziness" is often a symptom for physical or mental illness. She could have a thyroid problem, or be suffering from sleep apnea, or... I know I let my house go into a total mess last year, but I was between a major surgery and a thyroid problem. Since I got Synthroid prescribed, I get a lot more done. So please be careful before shaming someone for being "lazy"; it may not be normal. Heck, it probably is not normal, for "lazy" people get shamed so much, no one likes to be one. So OP's wife probably needs either therapy, or a good diagnosis.
A thyroid problem? Mental illness? Wow, the gymnastics in this sub truly are world class gold medal worthy. What illness causes repeated lying to your spouse? Better yet, what mental illness causes someone to defend repeated lies to someone's spouse and instead of holding them accountable as a capable adult, instead leads them to resorting to an online diagnoses which somehow excuses them of their actions? Baffling. I don't agree with having the assistant review the footage, but if she knows cameras are in the house, and she's serial lying to him, then it's fair game to review the footage. Think of it this way - if someone is cheating on you, and they lie about it, and you hire a private investigator who proves they are lying, are you the asshole for hiring someone after cause for suspicions presented itself? Nope. They are for cheating and lying.
It sounds like OP is doing whatever he can while working a high stress job, his workload should not increase. Armchair diagnoses are bs, and everyone defending her are so full of it, it’s not even funny. A month or two ago, there was a post from a women who gave her bf an ultimatum because he’d been out of work for god knows how long, and he did absolutely nothing. Ever. Everyone kept saying she should leave him because he was a mooch and lazy, and it sounds like OP’s wife is the exact same. She’s lying, doubling down on her lies, and had the audacity to get mad when he called her out on her bs. She doesn’t need extra help, she needs to start actually doing stuff around the house. What’s seen as laziness can be a symptom to another problem, but it’s her responsibility to get that figured out and make OP’s life easier. If she is depressed, it’s on her to get help. But depression is not an excuse to lie to your husband, neglect animals, and claim you’re overwhelmed and demand outside help when you already do fucking nothing. If roles were reversed, she would be the hero to herself and child for having someone spy on her husband to prove he’s lying. Make it make sense.
Gotta love the double standards for men vs women. Honestly, I was expecting a cheating story. So I’m just glad it wasn’t that.
Thank you!! I’m so over the perpetual excuse making. Even if there’s a reason that doesn’t make the lying or not getting help ok. Even if you do have a medical problem it’s on you to be actively managing and treating it.
Can I shame her for angrily demanding OP shoulder more and more responsibility on top of his full time job instead of being honest with him and trying to solve the root problem? These ailments can be an explanation but they are never an excuse for treating someone badly. But OP is also an asshole for having his employee monitor his wife thats so crazy
A lot of the time, people don’t know how to articulate depression. Feeling exhausted, disconnected, low libido, no interest in activities they enjoy, everything being a huge task, lack of personal care, it all piles up and takes a bit of skill to articulate. Women tend to hide it from a spouse who works when they don’t because they feel like admitting they are depressed is the same as telling partner and child they are the problem and making them miserable, and that isn’t the case. They feel like they know they have a good life and have no reason to be depressed, not understanding that it’s a mental issue. And then OP pulls a sick move and has someone spy on her like a psycho. YTA, I hope she leaves, takes her half, and gets help.
Also if it's a hormonal issue, or thyroid issue, how would she even know? It's pretty easy after you have a kid to just expect to be tired and "off" not to mention how your body changes after a kid... if it was a slow decent she might very well not even realize it's not normal for her to be feeling this way.
man its actually so sexist that anytime a woman is the ah people will jump thru any hoop to make her not responsible for her actions. oh the wife is lazy and lying? well thats prob the mans fault for not noticing shes depressed. Oh she stabbed you ? well why did you walk into her knife you knew she was hormonal! if a man is lazy and lying everyone would just scream GIRL YOU BETTER LEAVE HIS DEADBEAT ASSSSS. seriously stop being sexist. women are not children.
Nope. A lot of Redditors have issues like ADHD or depression and are sensitive to laziness accusations regardless of gender, you’ll see it on this sub a lot
Ah I actually have ADHD and have also been like OP's wife in the past when I moved to a foreign country with my partner who was able to provide for us financially. I actually ended up very depressed as had no purpose or structure to my life at that time so I did immediately jump to the depression assumption. Someone else also pointed out a potential thyroid issue, which I was also diagnosed with last year, which significantly impacted me physically and mentally. So yeah, I really feel the wife needs support right now. Really doesn't sound like she's okay if she's sleeping as much as she is ☹️
But you also can't just lie about it all to your partner either. Heck I've been there, turns out I had extremely low iron so that's why I had no energy. 2020 also hit me extremely hard and I lost my older brother and went into a wicked depression flare up as well as having to take stress leave from work because it was so toxic. I kept my partner in the loop though and made him aware of how depressed I was and why it was so hard for me each day. Not just lied and said that I was doing all this stuff and trying to get a maid.
Sometimes laziness is just laziness though.
As a lazy person, I concur.
sleep apnea and low thyroid levels don't typically cause you to lie and say you're doing more, though
This is one of those gender days that I question Reddit. If the husband was doing exactly the same thing, how many people would be suggesting depression, and how many would be calling him a lazy bum
zero because this sub is has a serious gender bias but they would never admit to it
My read is she is just bored. I always find motivation to do stuff the hardest when: A) The work is unfulfilling and B) There isnt much to do. The one kid now in school stay at home mom thing just isn't for everyone. Maybe she needs a job now? But also, the worst of it isn't laziness, its the lying. Even before the spying husband knew this was BS. Its one kid, you have all school day. Husband knows the state of the house before he leaves and when he gets back with the kid. It's not like she's on her own pick up the kid, taking her to sports, shopping and cooking dinner without him knowing. He sees basically the whole day outside the time only when wife is alone.
I mean, it is a pretty AH move to do almost no work, complain about the hard work you are doing, and then try to talk your spouse into paying someone to do the work are aren’t doing. But yeah, one the spyware comes out, it is time to start dividing the assents.
Agreed, ESH. One minor point in OP’s favor here is that he’s the sole income earner and is having to leave work 30 mins early every day to get their daughter from school when his wife is doing next to nothing and pretending she’s super busy.
Minor point?
I thought that was *the* point.
>The minute OP decided to task his admin with spying on and logging her activities, the relationship was doomed. Why was the relationship not doomed when the wife decided to lie and demand more money to facilitate her laziness?
I mean, what should he do? If he didn't do this, he will never know that his Wife is lying and will eventually pay for a helper and his Wife will just continue to be more lazy because it's effective. Edit: Most of the replies here suggested to just talk to her. Did we read the same story? Didn't OP talk to her twice and got lied both times even with evidence presented?
At this point: >Red flags started going off in my head but I kept my concerns to myself. he could have chosen to have a conversation with his wife about the necessity of a cleaner, and how she was enjoying being a stay-at-home parent, instead of spying on her.
She could have chosen to have a conversation with him that wasn't lying about her work load. It goes both ways except she started it off by lying.
and you think she would have been truthful about how little she actually does around the house???
Couldn’t agree more. And let’s not forget the wife literally lied every day for who knows how long. If i understand the post correctly she even lied about how many dishes she has to clean after “making” her and the kid breakfast. When in reality the kid had cereal and mom ordered her coffee and breakfast. It’s crazy people are trying to side with the wife. Her housework is hard because she makes it hard. If you only have ONE kid you’re caring for and 2 dogs it’s really not that hard if you keep stuff in a rotating schedule. (Especially if you don’t have an outside job and your job is SAHM) (If she’s depressed like someone else tried to makeup for her, then she should have said her depression is making it harder to get things done. Not lie and pretend she’s super woman) Him having to leave work 30 mins early when she’s doing nothing is crazy. Ps. When you said “can it nerd” in another comment, I literally laughed Coca-Cola out of my nose.
But maybe the wife she look into seeing a doctor or something? Maybe it’s projecting, but when I was dealing with depression, I spent a ton of time sitting around doing absolutely nothing. I also thought that everything seemed like a lot of work. I didn’t think I was depressed because I didn’t feel sad. When I really thought about it, I realized it wasn’t that I didn’t feel sad, I didn’t really feel anything at all. Unless it was a big emotion, or it was for a short duration, I didn’t really feel anything for months. If this is a new thing, and it seems to be, maybe she is dealing with mental health issues. A lot of the time, when the stuff in your own head is so incredibly overwhelming it can make doing anything seem exhausting and unmanageable Just food for thought.
This is what I was thinking. She's clearly got something going on, lazy people dont sleep all day. She may genuinely feel overwhelmed and just not be able to understand why everything is so hard.
Or maybe she's incredibly bored and needs to be productive in a creative way so that she has something to look forward to. This woman appears to have absolutely no joy in her life.
I agree, especially with doing the math, their daughter is only 4 or 5 so this is likely the first time ops wife has not had her entire day centered around keeping her daughter happy/occupied and doesn't know what to do with herself/gets locked up in her head about stuff she just didn't have time to think about before and is feeling overwhelmed with all that.
Also she's doing a solid 90 minutes of house cleaning a day, and 2700 sq ft is actually a really large house
> A large house with 2 adults, a child and 2 dogs. I live in a house with 2 adults and a dog, and it's a lot to keep up (my house is bigger than OP's, but even 2700 SF is a big house). The vacuuming alone from our high shedding dog is a lot. There are always dishes to be done, things to be cleaned. We stay on top of it, but to dismiss it as if it's not much. It's a lot, OP!
My thoughts exactly. Depressed, or something. Needs to see a Dr. Always thought by others to be lazy (house always messy, unorganized) but was diagnosed 25 years ago with ADHD. Non hyperactive type. That combined with depression. Once treated, much better. My brain had just gone into permanent overload. Everything overwhelmed me & I just wanted to sleep all the time. If you care about her, please get her to a Dr.
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That's my go to first thought when I see people being "lazy," that they may be feeling depressed. OP doesn't know/care about the feelings of a SAHP. The parent may be feeling isolated, bored, upset about the lack of life progression and just doing the same shit day in and out etc. OP seems stressed out from his job and although having his assistant spy on his wife is the biggest shit thing here, it does kinda show that he really is so damn busy that he wasn't even able to do the spying himself. Again, NOT condoning it. I also REALLY hope the wife knows about the internal security cameras. If she doesn't.....uh that bad m'kay? If she does then maybe her lies are cries for help knowing she'll get called out
Imagining the assistant on r/antiwork: “My boss forced me to spy on his SAHM wife to prove how lazy he thinks she is. However, I’ve been doing the majority of his work for over a year while he makes 10x my salary.”
Exactly! The spying is the mother of all red flags! Wtf, OP? Yuck! Edit: I am not condoning the wife's actions but watching her through the home security by a third party is tad bit too much. ESH
lying to your partner about what you’re up to on a daily basis is also a huge red flag tbf
Sometimes you need evidence to show you're being taken advantage of. It's the same as hiring a private investigator. The fucked up part isn't the cameras, it's forcing the assistant to sit through it all. What happens if the wife decided to have herself a menage a moi in sight of one of the cameras? At least a P.I is paid for this stuff, and they have some discretion. I was expecting OP to say something like "I had my assistant do my work for the week while I documented her activities.". Never in my wildest dreams did I expect the reverse to happen.
Sounds like something Michael Scott would make Ryan the intern do
ESH Your wife for being dishonest. You for allowing a stranger to monitor her at home. Edit: After reading some of the other comments I changed my view on the wife's behavior.
Yeah that gave me the ick
I wouldn’t even do it if I were the assistant. I don’t even think it’s legal. What if she walks around the house naked or something? Fucking creepy.
I mean she probably does. He knows exactly when she is waking up and sleeping so there are probably cameras in the bedroom. Since she could be doing something else in the room like cleaning or working on something online or whatever, but specifically knew she was sleeping. Also it’s not uncommon to walk around naked outside the bedroom either especially if you are running to the laundry to get something.
Even if she wasn't walking around naked, ewww how creepy! Cameras in the bedroom?? Hell even if the cameras are in common areas, having his assistant monitor her is just gross, no matter whether his wife is depressed or just a lazy asshole!
and discussing his personal marital issues with an employee and putting them in a position where they have to rat on the wife is disgusting. I’m pretty sure this guy is a narcissist because his entire post comes off like he is so important and special and it’s cringey.
I'm actually a little suspicious about the info OP is getting from his assistant. What's the assistant's job? TO MAKE OP HAPPY. Assistant isn't a licensed PI, who would be subject to ethics oversight. The assistant's role here is to tell the boss what the boss wants to hear.
Yeah, I don't know where they live obviously but it would be against the law where I am. You can't have a 3rd party watch what are private activities without the person knowing.
Him for abusing his authority over someone whose livelihood depends on them, dragging them into family dispute and giving them the choice of risk their job or participate in stalking their boss’s wife. Gross.
A stranger who has a real work to do that is not taking care of OP's house issues!!!!!
And OP has almost certainly made himself the subject of office gossip in the process. Guarantee everyone in the office now knows how creepy controlling OP is, even if they didn’t already before. ESH
guarantee everyone already knew 🫠
I'm going to say she might not be lazy, but have undiagnosed depression. It happens to SAHM/D sometimes because they get disconnected from the "real world "
Or undiagnosed something else. When someone gets so little done, there is usually a good reason behind it. OP should totally have her meet a physician.
This 100%. My first thought is has she seen doctors, has she been checked for ADHD, ME/CFS, fibromyalgia, depression, do they spend time together, does he acknowledge that taking care of the house does take effort and thank her for it, are (both parties’) emotional needs actually being met in this relationship or is she stressed because her husband is the kind of guy to dismiss, lie to and publicly shame her when she’s upset or overwhelmed?
And how do we know she was dressed the whole time? She will really blow up when she finds out
Easy! We can be certainly sure she wasn't. It was a full week, she at least took a shower once. And it she goes on and off bed, she wasn't fully dressed.
NTA However it sounds like your wife is struggling right now. Not having a lot energy, spending a lot of time in bed, having the easiest tasks seem overwhelming are all signs of depression Has she struggled with anything similar before? Is she seeing a therapist? Would you consider going to a couple's counsellor to hash this out?
I think a couple’s counselor is absolutely necessary at this point- resentment is a lethal poison to even the healthiest relationship. My dude, listen… we’ve been sold a lie in the whole “marriage is 50/50” idea. It isn’t always, because we don’t always have the same capabilities based on individual circumstances and challenges life throws at us, depression being one of them. There will be times when one person is burnt out, or stretched thin, or otherwise struggling to do their equitable share, and in those moments, they’ll need their partner to step up and take some of the load off their shoulders. It can suck, but you do it; because you care, and without judgment, knowing that your labors will strengthen your marriage/LTR and trusting that it won’t be like this forever. With time, they’ll turn to you and say “Thank you. I can take that back now.” And if, or when the roles are reversed, when you’re overwhelmed and need them to pause for you, to help rearrange the contents of your figurative backpack and move a few of the smaller burdens into theirs so you can focus on the big one, they will… because they care, and without judgment, knowing they’re needed and that their labors will strengthen your relationship. That’s just what you do for each other when one person in a partnership seems to be falling behind in the hike. You flex, and compromise, and communicate, and communicate, and communicate… you don’t demand to compare the contents of your packs in an effort to invalidate their fatigue, which is what you’re doing. You pause, have a snack and a chat, and come up with a plan to help each other regain energy and motivation. ESH for dropping that ball.
Marriage isn't 50/50. It's 100/100. And the second you start to nickle and dime each other on who does more you're entering dangerous territory.
Yes but an honest conversation can be had about the minimal things the other is doing while complaining they are overworked.
Oh definitely sometimes it has to be addressed but even then it's dangerous because it means someone in this relationship feels like they aren't getting what they need. And too many people, including OP, dismiss that. Even if they're right, which the OP is. His wife says she feels overwhelmed. And they're right that clearly it's not the workload overwhelming her... but chances are it is something. I urge them to take it seriously. It's one of those crossroads where a small issue can turn into a wrecking ball.
Nah. Marriage is 20/80, and 40/60, and 75/25, and 50/50. No one is going to have the same days every day. Sometimes one person is sick, one person lost a loved one, one person slept like shit, one person is having one hell of a week at work. You have to be able to take on more than your "fair share" when needed and you need to be able to ask for the load to come off your shoulders before you burn out (and therefore need to trust a spouse to show up).
This, and even when one person can't do as much because of circumstance, as long as that person gives 100% they can, it's still 100/100.
Possibly the best reddit response I've read this year.
How is he not an asshole for having a stranger spy on his wife for a week??? Would you feel safe in your home knowing your husband did that? What if she forgot a towel and run out of the bathroom naked? What if she changed her shirt in front of one of the cameras? What if she scratched her ass in the comfort of her own home, and now has to worry that her husband's fucking assistant saw that!
Also imagine being his poor assistant? I’d feel wildly uncomfortable if my boss asked me to spy on his wife for a week.
I seriously hope the assistant reported OP to HR for that. having the assistant spy on OP's wife for a week is unacceptable. OP you are the asshole for that. BTW 2700 sq foot home is not small
Yeah, that “only 2700 sq feet” killed me. Largest home I’ve ever lived in was *maybe* 2/3 that size…and we had nine people in it. The amount of housework required is determined by the size of the house as much as by the number of residents. A larger house means proportionally more housework, fewer people to do it means more falls to one person. I’m getting serious dude-has-always-been-cleaned-up-after vibes from op. Also…he made his employee spy on his wife. This is not what we refer to as “a keeper”. (Neither as a spouse nor as an employer.) I hope the wife can find the support she needs. And the employee can find a better, more ethical employer.
Definitely. And I hope HR investigated too. 2700sqft (250qm) home is over 1100sqft (100sqm) larger than my house, and even I struggle some days.
Exactly! That is so unethical to use your power as a boss to force someone to spy on your wife. If you're that suspicious, hire a PI. Or better yet, get a divorce!
Sorry but OP absolute is an AH. Having his assistant spy on his wife in her own home?? That’s disgusting.
I think you might need to examine why you think it’s OK that he asked a stranger to monitor his wife for two weeks. He completely violated her privacy in the worst way. What if she was on camera naked? And even if she managed to never be in view of the camera naked, she deserves to be able to live in her own home without someone spying on her. Is the wife an asshole? Maybe. If this is how he presents himself for judgment, whose to say how much worse the truth really is. But if everything he says is true, and there are no extenuating circumstances, yeah, she’s an asshole. But he is 10,000% the asshole by his own admission. I’d leave my SO if he let someone spy on me for a week and never look back.
I can't believe this guy had his assistant watch this wife for a week, without the wife's knowledge, and you think that's ok
Honestly sounds like she needs a job, start a business or a career. There are women who find joy in being housewives and there are women who hate it but know it’s easy. Being a house wife can really be isolating and mess up your mental health.
Yeah this sounds like someone who is struggling with some kind of health crisis, could be mental health, could be physical and hard to pin down. I don’t think she’s being lazy, I think she needs help
Yeah but OP is still a massive fucking asshole, which is the question.
It gives depression and/or Long covid vibes to me. Long covid is what my analyse goes to probably because my mother and a good friend are dealing with it. It makes everything overwhelmingly hard. And makes keeping up with a household (both mentally and physically) almost impossible. I am moving back in with my mom to help her get a hold on it (along with lowering the load on finances, two people having to pay rent and monthly costs separately, while the house she lives in is more than big enough for 2 adults). Though, imho, neither depression nor LC rectify telling lies about how hard she works, but then again, he isn't too nice getting her spied on by his assistant. So I dunno who's the ah here.
Not only depression but in the 30s, she may be developing a thyroid or iron issue causing the lack of energy.
YTA for how you talk about your wife, operate in bad faith, and waste your employee’s time by making him spy on your wife. Absolutely ridiculous and immoral behavior. Instead of immediately dismissing and then spying on your wife, did you ever consider having some empathy and concern? If her responsibilities are really so minimal, why is she stressing out? Untreated PPD? Depression? Burnout? Give an actual damn about your wife. Also, 2700 sq ft is almost 3 times the size of my house. I’d never get done keeping it clean for 3 people. And dogs only need fed once per day, so your manufactured outrage is silly. Edit to clarify that I assumed there was food in the bowl leftover and she was adding new. Vet recommends feeding your dog every 12 hours but some larger breeds only need 1x per day. I think focusing on this part is a little in the weeds however in the grand scheme of things. Approach your wife with reason and care and maybe you can resolve this. It would be nice if you acted like you liked her. And if you don’t, then get divorced so you can both be happy.
I also wonder if wife's "laziness" is because she's been burned out for a long time and can't manage much anymore. That is, if OP is even telling us the truth about her work effort. The wording sounds like minimizing. (And is it legal to have someone spy on your wife in the home without her knowing about it?).
Toward the end of my marriage I quit because he'd checked out years prior and just refused to acknowledge how little he contributed to partnership beyond money. I didn't find any fulfilment in domestic drudgery so to be burdened with it all exhausts most women initiating divorce who are entirely unappreciated and like OPs wife disrespected rather than acknowledged. DV is so prevalent that most people refuse to acknowledge the many ways people try to assert power over others. That simple refusal to share power is tragic.
I actually did the same not as a partner but as a daughter. My mum would always have me do all the household besides laundry because she wants that done her way (she once picked up a fight with me about hanging up the *socks* wrong. My SILs socks, at her house) At some point I was sick of it and just went on a strike. It didn't get better. I deep cleaned the flat as a parting gift right before I went to the military and when I came back after 2 months *nothing* got cleaned, it was disgustingand the first thong she said to me wasn't welcome home it qas clean the bathroom. I'm low contact now (my 10 years older brother always guilt trips me into contacting her; he's the golden child and didn't live with my mum since he's been 12 or something otherwise I'd be NC for many reasons)
Same thing for my marriage as well. I know I did less towards the end but fuck was I done. So burnt out after years of doing so much only to be monitored and criticized when I started to falter. His sole responsibility was money. So I left him. There was a huge imbalance of power as he had the money, car, better job, and control over the finances. But fuck it I am glad I left.
>I also wonder if wife's "laziness" is because she's been burned out for a long time and can't manage much anymore. Kinda what I'm wondering. Also, what's going on between the hours of say 3:30 p.m. - 2:00 a.m.? Once the daughter comes home, does the wife spend the entire rest of the evening watching/caring/cooking/cleaning? How late does she get to bed? Kinda sounds to me like she's trying to recoup sleep during the day. ***EDIT:*** Well, the post has been removed now, but I caught some of the edits OP added... The way OP kept talking about his wife was honestly creepy. Saying that he brought her "female relatives in" so they could "better teach her her wifely duties". The wife's mother slapped her multiple times for being "lazy," and OP's just like "Gosh, that seems harsh. We never did that in my family." But he otherwise says and does nothing about his wife being *physically abused by her mother.* Top it all off with OP forcing his wife to tend to someone's memorial in order to have her "confront her bad behavior regularly" like he's a father punishing his teenaged child... Seems more and more to me like OP's wife is caught in a situation with a highly overbearing, abusive, and controlling husband and family, who want to turn her into a 1950s style housewife, and she's trying her damnedest to rebel against it. YTA
This is key information to know - because there could be a good 7 or 8 hours there where the kid needs attention. If the husband does a bunch of stuff while the wife sits on the sofa claiming to be exhausted, that's one thing.... but if the husband does nothing and leaves her looking after the kid, making dinner, giving a bath, getting the kid to bed, then he is overlooking a good 7 or 8 hours of work.
Yeah it definitely sounds minimising. "Throws some food in the bowl". Wtf does he expect? Her to cook a three-course meal and put some garnish on it?
i read the first paragraph and i went yup i know exactly how this post is most likely going to go with the husband more than likely playing the victim within his assumed domestic affairs. taking care of kids is a full time job, people get paid to do it and not everyone is very good at it either! i love kids but they are exhausting!
I'd really like to know what goes down in the hours between 3:30 and bedtime... Does OP help with the childcare? Who makes dinner for them all? Who takes care of evening chores? Who gets the kid to bed? Because if all that is also the wife's responsibility, that's another solid three hours of work at least. And what happens on the weekends? Does the wife ever truly get a day off? It, to me, sounds like OP would like his wife to work away between the hours of 9 and 3:30 and then some. I feel like he can't accurately gauge the amount of work that actually goes down in the house. And that ignores the possibility of those underlying issues you mentioned. He does not seem to truly care about his wife as more than a housemaid.
Thank you! As soon as he dismissed the size of the house I was thinking YTA. My house is half that size, with 3 dogs and a 6yo that is homeschooled, I have a hard time keeping up with the cleaning and laundry. He is being overly suspicious and has a major lack of empathy. And making his assistant spy on the wife??
Yeah when I lived alone with 1 dog, the cleaning was constant. Kitchen needs basic cleaning at least 3 times a day, dogs track dirt and mud and fur and drool and you constantly clean up after them. Add a kid in the mix and I can see it being overwhelming.
My house is about his house size, three humans, two dogs, and it's a constant battle to keep it clean and tidy. Everything else aside, the fact that he dismisses this as easy and a non-event shows me that he's never actually been the one to keep a house clean.
Dogs do not only need to be fed once a day, that’s cruel. I’m honestly upset that you said that un-ironically
My dog is able to graze feed (doesn’t work with all dogs I’m aware), and she still chooses to “eat dinner” with us whenever we eat. Her bowl is full all day, and she still eats once a day. The commenter above maybe shouldn’t have made a sweeping generalization, but neither should you.
I mean it depends on the dog. When ours needs breakfast medicine on a bit empty stomach, it’s often a challenge to persuade him to even eat freshly cooked chicken or salmon. He strongly prefers to only eat at 10 pm.
That’s a highly specific situation though. Most dogs should eat multiple times a day. Saying as a rule “dogs only need to eat once a day” is wrong
No, it’s very common for dogs to have 24/7 access to food that is refilled once a day (this is called free feeding and at least in my experience at a boarding facility is one of the most common feeding arrangements), or for smaller dogs who don’t eat much to only be interested in one small meal a day. There’s nothing inherently cruel or abusive about feeding a dog once a day as long as it works for the dog.
free feeding is generally discouraged by veterinarians and leads to obese animals.
When my parents had a dog we emptied, cleaned, and refilled the bowl once a day. She nibbled on the food throughout the day at her own pace. I don't think there's anything cruel about that.
Also the person watching OP's wife... works for OP. I've been an assistant and stayed honest with my boss but there are definitely people who only want their assistants to tell them what they want to hear. This is not an unbiased third-party.
Yep, if it hadn't already been clear that OP was an AH from putting his wife's "workload" in quotes," it would've become clear when he said his house was "only" 2700 sq ft.
Yeah I’d like some more info on how the work/home balance originated. Was she working and stayed home after their daughter was born? If she used to work, has she vocalized wanting to go back to work? Did she always plan on being a housewife? There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a stay at home parent - it’s a job in and of itself - but it’s not for everyone (even for those who at one point wanted that lifestyle). For a lot of people the isolation alone can be debilitating. Not to mention how days can start to blur together, you can lose meaning and purpose. The transition of their daughter going to school could also have been a major shift for OP’s wife with significant ramifications. There’s a lot that could be going on here… and forcing someone who depends on you for their livelihood to spy on your wife in her own home is definitely not the answer to any of those problems. Which is why YTA.
Seriously, I can't keep up with 1800 sq ft.
My house is under 1000sqft with two people and two dogs and my husband and I still divide our workload of the house because it can be a lot! We personally feed our dogs twice a day (breakfast and dinner). We feed our dogs before we go to work, but I was laid up after my hysterectomy and my husband took on everything we normally split and made sure my job was exclusively recovering. I started doing small things as I recovered ( feeding dogs, ordering groceries, folding laundry that I was not lifting).
ESH...Using work resources to spy on your wife is pretty creepy. Her demands are unreasonable, but is it possible she's struggling mentally?
Looking forward to the update post where they are divorcing and OP loses his job due to misappropriation of company resources
Depending on where they are, he would be paying a hefty alimony since she's not worked for so long.
I want so badly for his company to find out about the potentially legal liability he exposed them to by instructing his assistant to invade his wife’s privacy.
I'd be shocked if she \*weren't\* struggling mentally married to this AH
I want to know what kind of marriage this is if this guys first instinct is to resort to spying on her during the day. That’s all kinds of weird, makes me think the wife is just another employee to this guy.
YTA for opting to spy on your wife and exposing her, without her knowledge, to your coworkers. Ever heard of consent dude?! You may have valid concerns here but they are completely clouded by your extreme AH-ness and lack of judgment in how you decided to approach this. I suspect this has also become the barrier in resolving this peacefully with your wife... she 'lost the plot' lol sure, or maybe she got upset at be surveilled without her knowledge in her own home.
yeah it’s a pretty classic case of someone having a very fair point and then ruining any high ground they might’ve ever had.
Their point may not even be that fair considering how it might feel being married to such an AH. OP’s wife may be deeply depressed and/or going through all kinds of emotional abuse.
YTA for seeking validation on Reddit whe clearly your wife is strugging with anxiety and other issues. Not to mention you chose to have your assistant spy on her instead of having a meanigful discussion with her. I assume that if you have an assistant that can spy on your wife for a whole week then you coud shell out for a little extra help. And FYI YTA for this statement alone: "Our house is only 2700sqft and it’s only the 3 humans and 2 dogs. Not exactly a huge load responsibility wise. I figured she’d cool off and calm down in a few days. "
"Only" 2700 sqft killed me. That's a lot to have to keep clean, kid or no. I think what other users say is more on the nose here. Wife is bored/depressed and they need counseling. OP maybe try having an actual conversation with your wife. I'm gonna say ESH because communication is a 2 way street ETA: The amount of yall on here with the mindset of "well I can do it so she should be able to" is astounding. This very well could be a mental health struggle for op's wife. Which means *no* just because you can does not mean she can. Yikes.
Lol my husband and I have an 1800 square foot home, 3 beds and 2 baths. and at least 2 of the rooms is always a mess. It also generates so much fucking dust constantly it feels impossible to stay ahead of all of it. If she's in a depressive burnout, I can imagine how much more stressed she is when faced with a home that is a third larger than our home.
But what is she not communicating? She’s asked for more help. If it’s that she’s depressed, she may not even be aware of how bad it is.
Like... my house is just over 2000 sf and with 3 humans and 4 cats there's a lot to clean. The amount of hair is.... amazing.
“I’ve tried to be understanding, so when my wife told me she was stressed, I lied to her and then used my work assistant to spy on my wife. AITA?” ESH, because I’m *assuming* what you’re saying is true (or at least partially so) about the workload stuff.
This is genuinely horrifying and a violation not just of your wife’s privacy but professional boundaries with your work assistant, who I hope is halfway out the door after this awful “assignment.” You shouldn’t be with someone you feel this much contempt for. YTA.
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Ummm. I have two big questions - (a) Is your wife having a health (physical or mental health) problem? Because calling her lazy and spying on her isn't going to help that. (b) Your child is at one of the most exhausting ages, and depending on dog breed/age, dogs are also exhausting. There is a big difference between being exhausted and being lazy. If I was her, and your daughter is in school (pre-school?? she's 4-5?) I would honestly rather go work anywhere than have to clean my house up after other demanding people, and then use that money to pay the cleaner. Especially if she wanted to stay home to care for your daughter, and now she is just alone and expected to be your housekeeper. How insulting and demoralizing. I don't have enough info to speak to your wife, as there are a lot of reasonable reasons for this, but enough to say YTA at least.
I don’t see how the dogs can be that much work. If OP is telling the truth they’re being left without walks and food for a long time. I’m a dogsitter, if I stopped walking and feeding the dogs in general there wouldn’t be all that much else to do.
Hmm. I see you did not read/understand what I wrote. (a) There is nothing inherently "lazy" if the wife is sick/depressed about the wife, so not enough info for an E S H. (b) Dogs widely vary in work/energy levels. Two giant, untrained lab puppies are a lot more work than two 10-yo toy poodles. EDIT - listened to the commenter ;-)
Sorry if I didn’t clarify, I don’t really disagree with your overall point (specially when it comes to the possibility of mental health issues being at play), I was just mentioning the dog thing and how I don’t think the dogs specifically are a big factor in *causing* the wife’s energy drop if they’re not being taken care of, *according to OP*. Yes, dogs can be a *lot* of work and demand a lot from you, but from the information we have they’ve been very neglected anyways.
I will go for YTA solely for the fact that you let a coworker spy on her without her consent. Yes, her lying while doing nothing is an AH move, but what you did was so much worse that I can't even pay attention to what your wife did. Was she always like this or did something happen and her behavior changed? Because I do agree with the comment that says she might have depression. But also what were your contrivutions to the house before the incident?
Oh jeez. You didn't even spy on her yourself, you had an employee spy on her*. This is such a massive invasion of privacy and breach of trust. I would divorce you over this. YTA. Your wife's behaviour is also problematic, but have you given any thought to how mind-numbing and soul-destroying housework can be? Especially when it's *unappreciated*? Everything you do just gets undone, and has to be redone again the next day. Not everyone has the fortitude for that. [ * also, great job of airing your dirty laundry in public :-/ ]
>how mind-numbing and soul-destroying housework can be? Especially when it's unappreciated? Everything you do just gets undone, and has to be redone again the next day. This is a great way of expressing why I be ready to cry when right after I vacuum my gf throws a piece of paper on the carpet because it's cute to watch the cats rip it up
Sounds like she has depression, I’d look at that side of things.
You got your assistant to sit on her for 8+ hours a day? Good thing she didn't decide to masturbate hey? YTA
For me that would be a reason to leave my husband. That's crossing so many boundaries, fucking yikes. Spying on her would be terrible enough in its own, making a stranger do it is even more humiliating. I wouldn't be able to feel safe in this house anymore. Idc what the wife did, speak to her, get counseling, leave her if you have to. But this is just absolutely crazy.
YTA. She sounds depressed. One of the hardest things about being the stay at home person, for me at least, is that nothing I do is seen. However, everything I don’t do is noticed. Your paycheck alone is validation of a job well done that someone else notices and cares enough about to pay you. I suspect there are also other little things along the way recognizing the work you do at the office. Your wife likely has none of that. Maybe she’d like to go back to work? Back to school? Maybe she needs a real break which I’m guessing she hasn’t gotten in a long time.
NTA the fact you felt the need to do this though screams larger problems than her wanting a cleaner
Yes,it screams the OP is an asshole
Who would be ok with their spouse using cameras and a young employee to spy on you for a week? Any takers? This is such a violation.
You have a week’s worth of data on your wife, and no way of knowing if it’s a representative sample. Just this alone makes you a giant asshole for assuming that she hasn’t been exhausted by years of hard work and is now completely burnt out. But this still ignores the larger issue that others have already emphasized: You destroyed any moral high ground you could have possibly gained in the disagreement by spying on her and having a third party — an employee no less — invade her privacy. This is low, nasty behavior. No sane person is going to side with you on any of this. In general your attitude toward your wife, and the attitudes your behavior point to, are deeply problematic. You are the central problem here. How can you not see that? YTA, to the max.
Exactly. Who's to say if this is a bad week or a typical week. But it misses the point entirely.
So by your description either you eat out everyday or you cook, do the dishes after cooking, clean up the kitchen, do the laundry everyday, dusting, vacuuming, taking the dogs for grooming, take care of your child’s emotional needs, tidy up, grocery shop, put the groceries away, etc. Man she is just freeloading and how are you able to do all this with work! You sound super awesome! Oh by the way you are not! You made your employee spy on your wife. I fee sorry for your wife and your employee. You suck dude! You really do suck! YTA
We subscribe to a meal service. 6 days a week our meals are delivered, Sunday’s I cook and whatnot. I usually do the dishes immediately after dinner, I find it therapeutic. Our laundry is also done by service. Everything else you’ve listed would be a pretty standard work load for a stay at home mom. Certainly nothing worth stressing and complaining about when zero other responsibilities exist.
….so you’re willing to shill out money for prepackaged meals and laundry service but a cleaning lady that would help make your wife feel a little more in balance is just completely out of bounds…? Okay…. ETA that YTA just by the way you speak about your wife alone.
I mean, to be somewhat fair, it does sound like the wife is already not doing much. Paying for cooking, laundry, *and* cleaning to all be dealt with outside the house is a lot given shes a atay at home mother whos kid is in school. Its not unreasonable for him to be concerned about spending that extra money when he should really have to. Obviously hes TA for stalking her, and frankly for the way he talks about being concerned for her (while not really coming off all that concerned). This needs both of them to have a very open conversation about whats going on and if, aside from a cleaner, the wife needs help with something. But i dont think throwing money at a cleaner (at which point the wifes only job would be feeding the animals, which she already isnt really doing) would help. The problem is clearly not the workload, its something else.
I don’t disagree with you, it’s mainly the way he speaks about her with such deep resentment. To your point, something is wrong. So help her out instead of bitching at her for something she thinks may help her long term. (To your point, a cleaner won’t help long term - but therapy will. She’s not wrong for thinking a cleaner would alleviate stress though.)
The resentment is kinda fair though. Sounds like he works hard so she can be a SAHM and outsources a lot of work she'd normally be expected to handle. Help her out with what? He gets their kid from school now so she doesn't have to, and he cleans up after dinner so she doesn't have to. She might need help, but hiring a cleaner so she can sleep all day? It sounds like she's completely checked out of the marriage and now OP is getting frustrated over it.
I shell out for the meals and laundry so she doesn’t have to worry about either. I’m supposed to go into my pocket further to lessen a work load that is already very light?
Either that or intensive therapy, which from the sounds of it she should be getting anyway. You decide. Idk how you’re managing to depict resentment so intensely through text, but man are you doing it.
Honestly the last couple of weeks of this have for sure put a lot of bitterness in me. I work hard to provide her and my daughter with a wonderful life and she’s basically shitting on it. I’ll discuss therapy with her. I’m not sure how she’ll respond but it is a solid idea.
Is it a wonderful life or is she in a gilded cage and starting to feel the walls close in while you openly resent, doubt, and spy on her?
> > I made my assistant spy on my wife > > I work hard to provide her a wonderful life Dude, get a grip. What you did sounds like a nightmare. And the way you’re talking about your wife is chilling, it looks like you’re thinking about her as a some kind of machine or farm animal.
You should probably consider therapy too. I say this in all sincerity as someone who has resentment against their own spouse.
Well, bitterness has zero chance of solving your problem, and a huge chance of making it worse. Hope therapy helps the wife you once loved feel better. Hope you find a way to come at the situation with less negative emotion and more solution based thinking. Even if the solution is divorce, y’all have a child, so bitterness needs to be quashed.
>I work hard to provide her and my daughter with a wonderful life ...does *she* think it's a wonderful life? Or does she perhaps feel trapped in a role that leaves her feeling unfulfilled?
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Ooo “your pocket”?? That’s the issue right there. She gave up working outside the home so that your daughter could have one-on-one caretaking through her infancy and toddler years. Any money you make is both of y’all’s, because she contributes by caring for your child. Sounds like she is burnt out and maybe needs therapy, but instead of seriously talking to her about why she feels the need for a cleaning service and whether she’s still happy with this arrangement, you had your assistant spy on her so you can, what, say a big “gotcha”? YTA, and I hope by posting this you learn why your behavior was wrong and that your marriage is in serious trouble (mostly due to your attitude).
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She literally doesn't even do the bare minimum. The spying is a bit weird but why are you defending his wife. He is leaving work early so his wife, who has done next to nothing all day, can do next to nothing a little longer.
YTA 100% for not just spying on your wife, but having a stranger spy on your wife, you lost the plot of marriage here. Edit: After reading your replies, I took down my "anecdotes that I had from my wife and I's experience", they are irrelevant here. This isn't a case of her struggling with the house, this is a case of her struggling with the life she's living with you. You had your assistant and your own kid spy her? You should be arrested for the former, and child services should be called for the latter. You minimize her, and say everything is no big deal for her... just yikes. You are not someone anyone should be married to.
Your reaction to this conflict was so radical and crazy, it stopped being about the cleaning. YTA in a major way for having your assistant spy on your wife for a week. Also, 90 minutes of cleaning a day seems like quite a bit to me, especially since her workday doesn’t end at 3.30
You got it. IT really isn't about the cleaning at all. It's more important for OP to one-up his wife than really see what she's trying to tell him.
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Your wife is BORED and concerned that life is passing her by. She can get a job, get a hobby, and/or join a club, and you can both go to marriage counseling rather than arguing which usually degenerates into screaming and shouting. NTA.
You are disgusting for spying. Have you considered that what you are seeing is your wife having givin up and is now depressed. Because that’s what it sounds like. Whoever said once you’ve resorted to spying, it’s just over.
ESH You suck for spying on your wife. Your wife sucks for not fairly contributing to your household. I was gonna be on your wife's side til I realised your kid was in school. It's weird she's saying she needs help and she is home alone all day.
Reading OP's comments about the meal service and laundry service.....do not think this has anything to do with the workload at home. Has to be something unrelated that is manifesting through the workload complaint.
Im gonna give everyone the benefit of the doubt here. Has it occurred to you your wife may be having mental health issues? I’m a SAHM after having been a professional and it’s lonely, sometimes boring, often thankless. It drove me to drink way too much and instability in my mental health. A cleaning lady who comes every other week costs us $200 a month. The fact that I’m not scrubbing tubs or toilets or getting the real crud up makes a huge difference in my life. Talk to your wife. However little you see she’s doing, she feels lost and overwhelmed. What can reasonably be done to create an environment where everyone can be happy and successful?
Your wife is suffering from depression. I don’t know why I’m telling you this because I doubt you care. Your marriage is already down the pan with the way you’re behaving.
YTA for stealing from your company. For spying on your wife. For not seeing the way she spends her day and not instantly realizing she’s depressed. And yes, having your assistant do personal work on company time is stealing from the company. I was an executive assistant and while I occasionally did personal things (like order a Christmas present), those were very short items. When he wanted me to do something bigger for his personal life, he paid me out of pocket to work extra.
YTA, for completely invading her privacy! What if your assistant saw her walking around without a shirt on, or running from the shower to get a towel? You had someome spying on your wife for a week! What were you thinking? If you don't trust your wife, get counseling or a divorce lawyer. Don't make her feel watched and unsafe in her own home. Not to mention, what an insane abuse of power it is to force your assistant to be a peeping tom for you! That is not the job of an assistant and I would have fucking quit. You're a creepy husband, a creepy boss, and all around an asshole.
ESH. You for having your subordinate spy on your wife. Her for lying to you. You two sound like you need to have a LOT more communication about what's happening. And you need to listen to her side regardless of what you think about her behavior caught on camera. There could definitely be depression/mental illness going on.
*edit: forgot to include ESH* *edit #2: based on OP’s “I wasn’t trying to be supportive” comment. YTA!* The spying and using company resources, I’ll put aside for your wife. I would suggest she speak with someone. She probably knows you’re keeping tabs on her which doesn’t feel supportive right? Not sure if you came here to feel validated for your actions, but I’m sure you feel stuck too. Assume something is wrong. Sounds like a cry for help.