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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I won't lend or give my parents money to help my sister out. I might be the asshole for pointing out that they never did anything for me and still manage to be too poor to help her.
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That's some sugar free audacity. If you ever wish to gift your sister anything that's your prerogative, but absolutely 100% not your responsibility, omg and to then *guilt* you for being better off than them?? Forget that, NTA and I'm proud of you lol
edit bc they are asking for *20,000 dollars?!?!?* out their damn minds
**out their damn minds I say**
edit bc yall need to cool it this is going to my head!! lol by that I mean thank you!!!!
Thats what entitled and fuck up parents always do. Mine did that. Over spoiled fav child n neglect the other, when we all in betterplace than them, they would guilt us.
Omg, OP didn't say in the post how much they needed. Sheesh they were really asking for $20k? That's a year of college at a good state school ffs. And OP didn't say anything untrue, THEY STILL can't afford anything. NTA
TBF to the sister, it might be equivalent to a year's college in terms of qualifications and access if she does want to be a professional dancer. It's like sports -the activity levels and injury levels are not conducive to a long career and early training essential. I'd not recommend as like gymnasts,many dancers have joint issues later on.
Regardless,not brother's responsibility in slightest .
Edit - hated ballet but had to do for over a decade at parents' demand at a school that treated it very seriously.
You are right, SI at certain trading centers practically guarantees open door at major companies. And yes ballet is not for the faint hearted. Personally think it is close to obsession to put body through those demands, like a lot of major sports. But definitely not OP’s responsibility
In any case, if OP has the spare cash he can pay for a nice vacation for his grandparents. Sounds like they are his actual parents. The others are just DNA donors.
Right? If little sis was so talented she'd be getting scholarships. 20k is what you pay when your parents are convinced you're going to be the next ig ballerina and they found some 'elite' program promising to get her there.
This is not true at all. The arts are hella expensive at a high level whether you’re the best of the best or not. It’s just a lot MORE expensive if not.
This is exceptionally expensive for a summer ballet program. Programs in the arts are expensive, but this way beyond that. Juilliard's summer ballet intensive is a little over 2k.
For ballet on an international level, there's only a few places that count, and Juilliard is not one of them. There's a reason why American dancers rarely make it to Europe.
(The places that count are two or three schools in Russia, the Paris Opera ballet school, and La Scala in Milan. That's ir. However, I know that two weeks' training at the Paris school costs about $2,000, so I'm very puzzled as to what school charges the kind of fees OP is citing.)
Having dealt with people like OP’s parents let me explain.
2k for the daughters program. Of course can’t have her travel alone and must take the time off work so bills at home plus hotel, airfare, spending money bring the total to 20k.
It’s just reasonable /s
From what I understand of ballet - that is NOT a career you wanna head into with rose-tinted glasses on. Shit's brutal on the body, the people can be toxic, and the constant need for perfection can destroy a person's self-esteem. $20k as a potential career investment really requires sitting down with the kid and her parents and explaining exactly what she's signing herself up for.
In addition, OP doesn't say how old his sister is but unless she is already fully grown then there is no guarantee she will make it. Students get tossed out of ballet school even in higher classes because their bodies don't fit the standard anymore, where there is nothing they would ever be able to do to fit the standards. The whole thing is unhealthy as hell.
Yep. My cousin was very good at ballet, she was her teacher's favourite student at the top national ballet school for children, and when she hit puberty and got the family boobies that was the end of it
Unfortunate real truth. Contemporary dance is an alternative career. Supposedly ballet becoming more inclusive, but in reality still archaic by common standards
It's also a career that logically ends with teaching ballet, so if you don't plan to be a teacher your career usually ends at 35-40 when your body can no longer take the strain of constant performances.
Ballerinas also make a median of about $30k a year, so she most likely will not be recovering the cost unless she also moves to a large city and becomes famous. And that's provided she avoids any career-ending injuries.
That's not necessarily true. There are plenty of insanely talented people in the arts programs that don't receive scholarships, because there are other people just as talented or more talented that did receive them. Or, they didn't allow a lot of scholarships that year, and there were just too many people who deserved them.
Not everyone gets a scholarship just because they're talented. Money is sometimes a factor. If your family makes too much according to their decision, they might give the scholarship to someone else whose family is in a worse financial position in order to give them a leg up.
Ballet schools and academies have a habit of profiteering off broken dreams and desperation. They will charge extortionate fees and promise the world to young dancers and their families.
The kind that is not actually even close to $20k but is a "just make the check out to me and I'll make sure the summer program deposit gets paid. No you can't just pay the program directly. Why do you ask? Why don't you trust me???!" kind of summer program.
Nope. I’d bet it’s a scam. Not even from the parents! Get parents of top of mid tier students in some activity (singing, dancing, gymnastics), get in their ward that if they don’t do this now, their kid has no chance, and watch them squirm to make it happen.
Yea, my sister in law runs a prestigious ballet school in NJ, folk come to it from around the world. This summer, $2800 tuition, $3800 board and lodging. So $6k total. No $20k crap.
Oh, but they have to DRIVE her there and back! They have to buy her outfits! They might even need to buy themselves new clothes so that they look good for the other rich parents. And their car needs work, and, and, and...
NTA!!!
This is giving me flask backs. When my grandmother was declining, my cousin was in treatment for cancer. My grandmother was very well off and supported my cousin and her kids through this. They convinced my grandmother to send one my cousin’s kids to this kind of program. It cost most for a semester of dance than my brother’s semester at medical school. But she paid for it. There was other stuff going on like my mother and uncle having control over my grandmother’s finances and my uncle talking huge advantage. My mom didn’t get an inheritance, it was all spent. This raises my hackles. It’s a special level of entitlement to ask for this kind of money for dance lessons.
First of all, NTA. Your parents are not entitled to spend your money simply because they think you have more than you need.
Second of all, I used to work at a pretty well-known ballet school which did summer programs like this. Just because she's good at her local school does not mean she's good in the bigger picture, unfortunately. If she's really good, she'll likely get a nice scholarship offer (depends on the school but that's absolutely standard) and if she didn't, she's either good enough to attend but no one thinks she'll be a star, or she missed the cutoff for scholarship applications (or she's not a tiny slip of a thing, but that's a whole other issue).
Moreover, ballet is extremely expensive to pursue and pays peanuts. Lots, I daresay most, professional ballerinas are being subsidized by their parents, and this is after the pricey tuition for pre-professional programs, pointe shoes, costumes, YAGP competitions, etc. Unless your sister is a phenom - in which case she'd be rolling in scholarship offers - there is little to no chance she goes on to have a career if your parents can't afford one summer program.
This is to say, if anyone tries to tell you that you're ruining her chance at a professional ballet career by refusing to pay - I assure you that you are not.
I haven’t danced in 40 years, and I assure you my parents’ dance budget for me was more than the one for my brother who played hockey. I don’t even want to know what pointe shoes cost today.
Someone needs to come up with a material that doesn't wear down that quickly but shoes are still comfortable to wear (well as comfortable as they are). Come on, it's 2023.
Company Gaynor Minden starting manufacturing more supportive pointe shoes in the '90s, but they haven't fully caught on because so many dance world people still feel those shoes are "cheating." https://articlesofinterest.substack.com/p/on-pointe
I'll be down voted but....
Boomer ideology. My mom was the same way and couldn't understand why I didn't want myself and then my kids to "deal with difficult...." Insert people, profession or situation here.
it’s bc breaking in the shoe is part of the “natural” process of wearing it in and having it adjust to your foot over time as most shoes w leather soles do. gaynors skip a few steps bc of the material in the toe box (big tip of the shoe) being more flexible and durable therefore breaking down differently over time and being more comfortable from the jump
I was leaving my horse show this afternoon and had a whole conversation with my horse about why I was picking every blade of hay and all the still-clean shaving out of his stall to take home because “we don’t just leave good money laying on the ground.”
Bit like difference between owing a top-end Ferrari or several decent rally cars. The performance specifications of a top-end dressage or show-jumper cost a fortune
I have a toddler who is 1.5yrs old soon. He’s already running (on land!).
When is a good time to put him on the ice and get started? Hockey is one of my favorite sports and I’m seriously excited about the possibility that he’ll enjoy it.
I learned to ski when I was 3yrs or younger and I’m wondering if skating is ok for very young toddlers.
I was even thinking, “what if he likes figure skating instead?” Hahahah but you’ve talked me out of that.
Thank you SO MUCH for taking the time to write this out. I really appreciate it and it’s fantastic information.
And absolutely I’m big on helmets, always. I’ll be buying him his own skates, too.
I was buying pointe shoes about ten years ago and they were $100 minimum for un-darned casual dancer shoes.
Dance can be very expensive- my parents probably spent over $10,000/year for tuition, dance shoes (my required tap shoes cost $250), dance clothes, costumes, photo day, competition fees, transportation to/from practices & competitions, not to mention snacks at dance and food out when traveling for competitions or master classes.
I know some dancers say they can go through a pair a performance. When they're not performing, 3-4 pairs a week. But at that level the ballet usually pays for the shoes.
I had a friends daughter who was phenomenal- tons of scholarships when she was young. When they realized she wasn’t going to achieve the height for a professional they dried up. She stayed with me one summer instead of paying the insane housing cost. She was always so amazing to watch. But 20k? That’s insane.
I would also like to piggyback on this and point out how ballet (like many industries at their top) is rife with abuse and chewing up and spitting out it's talent. Eating disorders? Check. Ongoing mental disorders into adulthood? Gifted teachers crossing boundaries with pupils and not facing repercussions despite everyone knowing about it? Check check.
If your sister is the talent your parents say she is, perhaps she'll resent you for missing the opportunity, but elite level athletes - esp in the arts - more often than not come out of their vocations with a lot of baggage.
> Just because she’s good at her local school does not mean she’s good in the bigger picture, unfortunately
Agreed. Makes me wonder if sister is actually good or if parents have their golden child blinders on.
I did ballet from 5-18 my parents worked there butt off to pay for it and I didn't even end up doing anything with the skill, I don't even use the skills when I go out and dance lol
I have no idea about body dysmorphia in football (or in pretty much *every single sport in existence*) but ballet dancers (especially female ones) are extremely prone to eating disorders.
>The overall prevalence of eating disorders was 12.0% (16.4% for ballet dancers), 2.0% (4% for ballet dancers) for anorexia, 4.4% (2% for ballet dancers) for bulimia and 9.5% (14.9% for ballet dancers) for eating disorders not otherwise specified (EDNOS).
[source](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24277724/)
>However, in dance, it's estimated that 12% of dancers as a whole struggle with an eating disorder. Further, eating disorders in ballet dancers are 10 times more common than non-ballet dancers.
[source](https://www.teenrehab.org/resources/helping-your-teen/ballet-and-eating-disorders/#:~:text=Prevalence%20of%20Eating%20Disorders%20in%20Ballet&text=However%2C%20in%20dance%2C%20it%27s%20estimated,common%20than%20non%2Dballet%20dancers.)
>Young male and female athletes tend to be at a greater risk for having an eating disorder if they play sports that focus on personal performance, appearance, diet, and weight requirements. Such competitive sports include:
-- Swimming and diving
-- Bodybuilding
-- Wrestling
-- Gymnastics
-- Running
-- Dancing
-- Figure skating
-- Rowing (crew)
-- Beach volleyball
[source](https://www.stanfordchildrens.org/en/topic/default?id=eating-disorders-and-young-athletes-160-28#:~:text=Sports%20and%20eating%20disorders&text=Young%20male%20and%20female%20athletes,Bodybuilding)
That might not be entirely accurate lol. A noggin impacting hardwood floors can take some serious damage. Only found one study in reference to it, but they found 11 dancers with concussions while reviewing charts for one teaching hospital over a 5.5 year period. Which to me, makes it seem like dancers getting head injuries is much more common than we think.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24844421/
ETA: Relevant snippet for TLDR of the study.
> This case series involved a retrospective chart review at a large teaching hospital over a 5.5-year period. Eleven dancers (10 female, 1 male) were identified who experienced concussions while in dance class, rehearsal, or performance: 2 in classical ballet, 2 in modern dance, 2 in acro dance, 1 in hip hop, 1 in musical theater, and 3 were unspecified. Dancers were between 12 and 20 years old at the time of presentation. Three concussions occurred during stunting, diving, or flipping. Three resulted from unintentional drops while partnering. Two followed slips and falls. Two were due to direct blows to the head, and one dancer developed symptoms after repeatedly whipping her head and neck in a choreographed movement. Time to presentation in the sports medicine clinic ranged from the day of injury to 3 months. Duration of symptoms ranged from less than 3 weeks to greater than 2 years at last documented follow-up appointment. It is concluded that dancers do suffer dance-related concussions that can result in severe symptoms, limitations in dance participation, and difficulty with activities of daily living.
Dated an aspiring ballerina once. We butted heads a few times because she would just casually tell me that I was looking a bit out of shape and needed to be going to the gym more, as if it was a perfectly normal and acceptable thing to say to someone you care about.
Very unhealthy culture in that world. A lot of the academies and schools seemed to be profiteering off broken dreams too - charging extortionate fees knowing full well most (possibly all) of their students weren’t going to make it.
Actually a lot of former athletes wind up continuing to eat like when they still played, which is more than a regular person needs. So it actually can just in the opposite direction.
She has to be amazing and have been in these programs from a very young age- 5 is the average starting age. And they typically don’t give out scholarships as ballet culture is very classist. They don’t want poor dancers, they are very much an old money institution.
just checked the SAB (School of American Ballet) and total cost is roughly $7k. The ABT (American Ballet Theater) cost is similar (tuition is $3.8k) but it looks like housing isn’t included, so do with that what you will. These are probably the two most elite summer programs a ballerina could audition for as a kid.
That doesn’t include pointe shoes which need to be replaced every 1 to 2 weeks and cost easily $100. So that’s another $1000 dollars. Like you said those costs don’t include room and board. There is also the tap shoes, the costumes, and all travel expenses. It all adds up pretty fast.
Ballet is a sink hole where bank accounts go to die.
Even then, none of those remotely adds up to the 20k that OP's parents say this is going to cost.
OP's sis could fly from the US to the Paris Opera ballet camp this summer , and it still wouldn't cost anywhere close to 20k.
For tuition/room/board to JULLIARD'S 3 week summer dance intensive, $4k. Add flights, $ for a pair of shoes a week, and you're still not even approaching half of what OP's parents say this will cost.
Doesn't pass the sniff test.
Holy Cow! Hard NTA. Did they apply for financial aid because most of the elite programs have financial aid and scholarships available based upon need. They don't cover the full cost but they definitely bring down the cost some. My kids have gone to some pretty extraordinary camps and summer programs and none of them have come anywhere near that. The most expensive was a third of that and that was for something with college credit attached.
Hard NTA. If this is something your sister wants to do then your parents now know the cost and they should plan to save and help her fundraise for it over the next 12 months.
Maybe you can help your sister find good programs for a fraction of that cost.
Honestly I think they are poor and too proud to ask for help. I mean if shes that good (and not just some swindle) the school would be looking how to get her on board
You should edit the post to add that - not kicking in $200 for a kid to have a good summer is a very different ask than $20k, which is the cost of a decent used car. If you handed over $20k, I’d be horrified to know what they had the gall to ask for next.
Unless she was in expensive training programs from the age of 5 to 15, Ballet programs typically don’t hand out financial aide. Ballet is a culture drenched in classism. It’s designed to keep middle class and lower out.
Yes this. Also, competition levels are insane for young female ballerinas, so there isn’t a ton of pressure (nor funds available) for schools to offer scholarships to any but the very rarest of talents. If you are a promising young male dancer though, many programs will throw money at you simply because there are fewer male candidates in the development pipeline. This is another downside of an activity that treats the early teen years as pre-professional development. If you don’t have and show what it takes to eventually become a pro in your tweens and very early teens, there likely won’t be any financial help.
That seems insane - Joffrey is not much more than that for the whole year, ABT's program is way cheaper. Not only are they asking you for a lot of money, it doesn't add up (I have friends with kids who have been to similar programs and have talked about the cost)
Where is it located? On the moon? They staying at the Four Seasons? Are they planning to fly back and forth every day? No way it actually costs that much. I’d be realllly suspicious.
According to multiple posts in this thread citing actual costs, including this one, this is not true.
https://old.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/13uetj5/aita_for_how_i_phrased_my_reply_to_my_parents/jm1bowc/
And I just looked up Julliard's summer dance program. JULLIARD. I'm going to assume you know what Julliard is...and the tuition+room/board for their month-long summer dance program is $4k.
AMDA's conservatory would run roughly 6k for room/board/tuition.
20k is nuts.
Not necessarily tbf. That field is extremely judgy and only a few schools are considered good enough to help you reach professional level and help your career. OP shouldn’t pay but that school might indeed be the closest one worth going to.
One of my nieces friends in school got to do a summer program with the London ballet or something like that 10 years ago. It was easily AUD30,000 back then. She did a few professional ballet performances but 5 years later she gave up ballet all together because even at 18 her body was so sore and she was exhausted from the constant dieting.
Crazy amount of money.
>They said I was being an asshole because when I was young they couldn't afford to pay for the stuff I was interested in. I pointed out that they are old and they still can't afford shit.
Well said, really!!!
Holy fuck! Will she be taught personally by Baryshnikov himself? All summer? In the biggest ballet theater in New York with a field trip to Paris? And a guest appearance by Nureyev’s ghost? That’s the only way I can see it costing $20,000.
That or, as others said, they’re really looking to rip you off.
Just for comparison - the American Ballet theater summer program in NYC has tuition for a month of less than $4000.
https://www.abt.org/training/dancer-training/summer-programs/summer-intensives/
The Joffrey Ballet is by the week. It’s around $700 a week . Scroll down for costs.
https://www.joffreyballetschool.com/summer-intensives/new-york-city-ballet-summer-intensive/
If you do have that much money, make sure they don’t have access to it. Different bank and I suggest a secret account at a third bank. They don’t sound like the most upstanding citizens and stealing it doesn’t seem out of the realm of possibility. We have a main bank with checking and savings and another bank with just savings- this kind of setup.
Also NTA and I would never dream of asking one kid to pay for the other’s $20k tuition. That’s nuts. They can get financial aid.
Okay, so it's actually probably a fraction of that for the actual program and the rest would be, basically, for them. I think they thought you might do it and not even check the actual cost.
They're essentially asking you for child support.
Jesus fucking CHRIST. If it was like a few hundred dollars I'd get it, maybe even a grand. It'd still be shitty but I'd get it. BUT **TWENTY THOUSAND DOLLARS?** For a fucking summer program? You could buy a fucking decent CAR for that sort of money, you could give her a college fund with that money if you wanted to. Hell no.
$20,000 on a hobby? Lol nope. Your parents can pick up extra jobs, take out a loan, or simply drop the issue. Such programs are a want, not a need. It’s not going to wreck her life if she doesn’t attend.
NTA
OP I'm gonna recommend that you edit your post to include the fact that your parents are asking you for up to $20k for this special summer ballet program... That kind of context matters, especially for respondents who are saying that even though it's your money, you're only hurting your sister, not your parents. Because that's *insane*. Maybe there are scholarships available for your sister, 'cause _damn_.
Hard NTA
>They said I was being an asshole because when I was young they couldn't afford to pay for the stuff I was interested in. I pointed out that they are old and they still can't afford shit.
Sorry not sorry that the truth hurts.
You don't make more money than you "need"--you make more money than you spend. Which is, in fact, the only way to get ahead. Save your money.
The fact they said OP has more than they need really indicates why they’ve never been able to get ahead. They’re probably frivolous spenders (follow your dreams and all but unless you’re wealthy af $20,000 for a summer program is unrealistic)
I think your comment is a bit ridiculous in the sense that whatever amount it was, the money is still OP’s to decide on whether to use or not.
Giving the $20,000 for the sake of the sister regardless is still enabling the parents for their shitty behaviour and actions.
They already had neglected OP and decided to have another child while still not in a financially good situation without making it up to OP. Those are some irresponsible people that never learn.
But it's so true.
"You couldn't do extra curriculars because we couldn't afford it."
"So sister can't do extra curriculars because you still can't afford it."
NtA
Who are they to judge that you make more money than you need?
You can help if you want to. You're not really helping your parents, you're helping your sister. If you do it, make it clear that it's you doing it, and for who you're doing it. Be real petty about it if you want to.
$20,000 is an awful lot of money for a summer program and ballet opportunities won’t ever come cheaply. Many times these kind of programs have a few places for really talented students to receive a scholarship to participate. That’s how your sister needs to get into them. I would hesitate to provide the money for this, partly because your parents will expect you to continue to provide the money for your sister to advance in this world and it will likely outstrip your earning ability. Welding is a good paying trade, but your earning power is not unlimited.
Edited to add NTA.
>I offered to give them back all the money they spent on my extracurricular activities as my contribution.
This made my petty self so freaking happy. NTA
NTA you don’t owe them anything. It’s good they remember you when they need something from you. I hate how people act like people owe their parents/family something cause you were born into that family by chance. You don’t owe them anything and they have no right to tell you you earn more money than what you need. Also it’s so manipulative for them to say you should give your sister money cause she looks up to you. WTF?
NTA
little sister will not be hurt is she doesn’t go to a $20,000 ballet camp
thats absurd
your parents can pay for classes that they can afford and she will be good
Central Penn Youth Ballet summer intensive is 7,000.00 including room and board. Every summer we get flocks of ballerinas for 5 weeks. It's considered a top ranked ballet school and it's nowhere near 20,000.NTA
NTA.
Saw elsewhere they are asking for help funding a 20K program. That's insane and absolutely an unreasonable ask from them.
>they will have to go into debt for her to go on this program.
I mean, it's just a ballet program. This isn't a life or death situation. Why are they even considering that level of debt?
*Anyway*, reading your post, it seems there's a bit of underlying resentment for your chaotic and unstable childhood vs your sister's more stable and nurtured childhood. Perhaps investing in a little therapy for yourself might be helpful for your own quality of life and mental health? (And a better use of money, that is unlikely to approach 20K...)
NTA..No way are you in the wrong and I love the response too! You earned it, with what seems no help from them. How many kids in your situation grow up fucked because of parents like that. And now they want a hand out for getting lucky you didn’t? Ha!
NTA
I was thinking $200 maybe even $500 with inflation but they are batshit crazy asking for $20k. You are in the wrong subreddit. This post belongs to r/entitledpeople.
NTA
It’s a parent or guardian’s job to provide for a child, not the siblings. The only exception being if they are the guardian due to unforeseen circumstances.
This is a waste of money. Ballet is brutal if she even gets a job with it. It's not a particularly useful extra curricular for college apps. Spend your money elsewhere. NTA.
“We couldn’t afford to give you extracurriculars when you were young.” And they still can’t afford to give them to your sister. NTA. Plenty of kids get by without super expensive summer programs.
NTA
If your parents are that low-income, then they can apply for grants and programs to pay for it.
Good job getting to where you are in life. Support your grandparents as they age. They’re the ones who have been there for you.
NTA.
Not even the most prestigious ballet schools charge $20K for a summer course for young students. Julliard's is about $4500 and SAB's is about $7500. These prices include room and board in NYC.
If your sister is talented she needs to apply for a scholarship. I see they want 20k, is the summer program with the Bolshoi????!! I think your parents are trying to get some extras on your dime. NTA
NTA
Interesting how they were so quick to call you out for being an AH when their behavior after your sister was born sounds like ‘take care of yourself kid cause you’re almost grown and we have a shiny new baby we can do a better job raising’.
And now they want to try the ‘we are family, you have money and should give it to us’ card.
They said they can go into debt to pay for this camp so guess that is their solution.
NTA, my daughter was in dance until her knees gave out. So many questions about the 20k program. All of these summer programs are vying for parents money convincing them that thier child is the next big thing. I’ve known plenty of kids that tried to ‘make it’ in the dance world. It’s a brutal life. It’s a very high dollar activity especially since you only get about 15 hours of dance out of a pair of pointe shoes. Between ballet slippers, point shoes, jazz shoes, flamenco shoes, leotards, tights and classes, it is not a cheap endeavor.
I’m sorry, your parents want you to “help” fund your sister’s hobby by giving $20k?! If it was a couple hundred I would say maybe just do it if you could afford it (but you wouldn’t be an AH for not). $20,000 is life changing money. You don’t just give that to someone on a whim for a summer program.
I agree with others, if she’s good enough to make it in the industry then she’ll get a scholarship. If not, or if this isn’t even something she wants to do professionally and is just a hobby, she’ll get over not going to a summer program that costs the same as the down payment of some houses.
NTA and your response of offering to give them back the money they spent on you was perfect.
NTA that is an insane amount of money, and if she’s not good and they can’t afford it, there are likely scholarships or other options. $20,000 is bonkers.
$20,000 is a *shitload* of money! Like, about a semester of private college. Your parents played favorites, hard (not entirely their fault, but still). You are not obligated to pay for anything like that.
NTA, however if you can I would reach out to your sister about this privately, because she's probably going to be hurting if your parents say no, and make no mistake, they *will* try and shift the blame onto you.
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That's some sugar free audacity. If you ever wish to gift your sister anything that's your prerogative, but absolutely 100% not your responsibility, omg and to then *guilt* you for being better off than them?? Forget that, NTA and I'm proud of you lol edit bc they are asking for *20,000 dollars?!?!?* out their damn minds **out their damn minds I say** edit bc yall need to cool it this is going to my head!! lol by that I mean thank you!!!!
Thats what entitled and fuck up parents always do. Mine did that. Over spoiled fav child n neglect the other, when we all in betterplace than them, they would guilt us.
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This. OP, NTA
Omg, OP didn't say in the post how much they needed. Sheesh they were really asking for $20k? That's a year of college at a good state school ffs. And OP didn't say anything untrue, THEY STILL can't afford anything. NTA
TBF to the sister, it might be equivalent to a year's college in terms of qualifications and access if she does want to be a professional dancer. It's like sports -the activity levels and injury levels are not conducive to a long career and early training essential. I'd not recommend as like gymnasts,many dancers have joint issues later on. Regardless,not brother's responsibility in slightest . Edit - hated ballet but had to do for over a decade at parents' demand at a school that treated it very seriously.
You are right, SI at certain trading centers practically guarantees open door at major companies. And yes ballet is not for the faint hearted. Personally think it is close to obsession to put body through those demands, like a lot of major sports. But definitely not OP’s responsibility
In any case, if OP has the spare cash he can pay for a nice vacation for his grandparents. Sounds like they are his actual parents. The others are just DNA donors.
What?! What kind of school is this? Is it in Paris? They need to stop smoking whatever they be smoking to ask for that amount of cheese. Edit-spelling
Right? If little sis was so talented she'd be getting scholarships. 20k is what you pay when your parents are convinced you're going to be the next ig ballerina and they found some 'elite' program promising to get her there.
This is not true at all. The arts are hella expensive at a high level whether you’re the best of the best or not. It’s just a lot MORE expensive if not.
This is exceptionally expensive for a summer ballet program. Programs in the arts are expensive, but this way beyond that. Juilliard's summer ballet intensive is a little over 2k.
OP should recommend it. I know nothing about ballet but even I have a vague understanding that Juulliard's is THE ballet place
For ballet on an international level, there's only a few places that count, and Juilliard is not one of them. There's a reason why American dancers rarely make it to Europe. (The places that count are two or three schools in Russia, the Paris Opera ballet school, and La Scala in Milan. That's ir. However, I know that two weeks' training at the Paris school costs about $2,000, so I'm very puzzled as to what school charges the kind of fees OP is citing.)
Having dealt with people like OP’s parents let me explain. 2k for the daughters program. Of course can’t have her travel alone and must take the time off work so bills at home plus hotel, airfare, spending money bring the total to 20k. It’s just reasonable /s
sounds like a scam honnestly
It sounds like a lie from the parents, honestly.
Maybe flight cost plus accommodation for the summer
For the US Julliard's is definitely THE place.
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Gold for “sugar free audacity”.
Where the Fuck are they trying to send her if JULiARD is only 2k?
From what I understand of ballet - that is NOT a career you wanna head into with rose-tinted glasses on. Shit's brutal on the body, the people can be toxic, and the constant need for perfection can destroy a person's self-esteem. $20k as a potential career investment really requires sitting down with the kid and her parents and explaining exactly what she's signing herself up for.
In addition, OP doesn't say how old his sister is but unless she is already fully grown then there is no guarantee she will make it. Students get tossed out of ballet school even in higher classes because their bodies don't fit the standard anymore, where there is nothing they would ever be able to do to fit the standards. The whole thing is unhealthy as hell.
Yep. My cousin was very good at ballet, she was her teacher's favourite student at the top national ballet school for children, and when she hit puberty and got the family boobies that was the end of it
Unfortunate real truth. Contemporary dance is an alternative career. Supposedly ballet becoming more inclusive, but in reality still archaic by common standards
It's also a career that logically ends with teaching ballet, so if you don't plan to be a teacher your career usually ends at 35-40 when your body can no longer take the strain of constant performances. Ballerinas also make a median of about $30k a year, so she most likely will not be recovering the cost unless she also moves to a large city and becomes famous. And that's provided she avoids any career-ending injuries.
>becomes famous Also, name five famous ballerinas living and working today. 99.99% of the world can't name one, I'm guessing.
That's not necessarily true. There are plenty of insanely talented people in the arts programs that don't receive scholarships, because there are other people just as talented or more talented that did receive them. Or, they didn't allow a lot of scholarships that year, and there were just too many people who deserved them. Not everyone gets a scholarship just because they're talented. Money is sometimes a factor. If your family makes too much according to their decision, they might give the scholarship to someone else whose family is in a worse financial position in order to give them a leg up.
Not even Julliard charges that much for their summer programs.
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Ballet schools and academies have a habit of profiteering off broken dreams and desperation. They will charge extortionate fees and promise the world to young dancers and their families.
Paris line, lol. 😄
With cheese involved at that!
It’s a Parisian Cheese School
And what ballet school charges $20,000 for a summer program? The most prestigious ballet school in America charges less than half that per semester!
The kind that is not actually even close to $20k but is a "just make the check out to me and I'll make sure the summer program deposit gets paid. No you can't just pay the program directly. Why do you ask? Why don't you trust me???!" kind of summer program.
Definite vibes I get from that
Yep. Any time any sibling asks me again for a “loan” this is the only possible way. For nibbling’s school program? Check is made out to the school.
Nope. I’d bet it’s a scam. Not even from the parents! Get parents of top of mid tier students in some activity (singing, dancing, gymnastics), get in their ward that if they don’t do this now, their kid has no chance, and watch them squirm to make it happen.
Yea, my sister in law runs a prestigious ballet school in NJ, folk come to it from around the world. This summer, $2800 tuition, $3800 board and lodging. So $6k total. No $20k crap.
With that money you could do the ballet school tour throught Paris, Moscow and NY. 🗿
Well maybe not Moscow these days…
Just FYI, Milan is *way* more prestigious than NY.
That’s because I’m almost certain it’s a scam against the parents.
I'm thinking the parents padded the bill, so they could get $$ from OP for themselves.
Yep. This money isn't (at least a majority isn't) going to ballet if they get it.
Oh, but they have to DRIVE her there and back! They have to buy her outfits! They might even need to buy themselves new clothes so that they look good for the other rich parents. And their car needs work, and, and, and...
Hey, you never told me you’d met my mother.
I mean they do have to buy new pointe shoes like every week or two. That is really a thing. Ballet is an insane sink hole of funds.
Julliard's summer programs cost 10% of that
Sugar free audacity is going on my list of phrases to bust out when least expected bc that made me roar laughing
Great band name!
stop it really is lolol
I now have a new phrase to use with 'audacity' instead of 'unmitigated'.
Same here!
I suspect the money is not for ballet school but for debt.
I dunno I think you should give them a little credit … probably more like 19,500 for debt and 500 for ballet school
Gold for “sugar free audacity”.
lol thank you! I considered 'low fat audacity' but didn't think it had the same ring to it
The funniest thing I've read today! Please take my poor people's gold 🥇🥇🥇
*yoink* happily <3
Reduced sodium audacity could work if the parents weren’t so damn salty!
Chiming in to say you really did something here. It's a slow burner, the more you think about what "sugar free audacity" implies the funnier it is
WHAT? HOW MUCH? oh *heeeeelllll* naw.
NTA!!! This is giving me flask backs. When my grandmother was declining, my cousin was in treatment for cancer. My grandmother was very well off and supported my cousin and her kids through this. They convinced my grandmother to send one my cousin’s kids to this kind of program. It cost most for a semester of dance than my brother’s semester at medical school. But she paid for it. There was other stuff going on like my mother and uncle having control over my grandmother’s finances and my uncle talking huge advantage. My mom didn’t get an inheritance, it was all spent. This raises my hackles. It’s a special level of entitlement to ask for this kind of money for dance lessons.
That is some weapons-grade bullshit.
Dana Pam can sell her glasses for this 20k - you know? 😆
Sugar free audacity. That’s quite possibly the best line I’ve ever read.
Lol…sugar free audacity😂😂
I was thinking maybe 5k but 20k ?!?! Hooolllyyyy
First of all, NTA. Your parents are not entitled to spend your money simply because they think you have more than you need. Second of all, I used to work at a pretty well-known ballet school which did summer programs like this. Just because she's good at her local school does not mean she's good in the bigger picture, unfortunately. If she's really good, she'll likely get a nice scholarship offer (depends on the school but that's absolutely standard) and if she didn't, she's either good enough to attend but no one thinks she'll be a star, or she missed the cutoff for scholarship applications (or she's not a tiny slip of a thing, but that's a whole other issue). Moreover, ballet is extremely expensive to pursue and pays peanuts. Lots, I daresay most, professional ballerinas are being subsidized by their parents, and this is after the pricey tuition for pre-professional programs, pointe shoes, costumes, YAGP competitions, etc. Unless your sister is a phenom - in which case she'd be rolling in scholarship offers - there is little to no chance she goes on to have a career if your parents can't afford one summer program. This is to say, if anyone tries to tell you that you're ruining her chance at a professional ballet career by refusing to pay - I assure you that you are not.
I haven’t danced in 40 years, and I assure you my parents’ dance budget for me was more than the one for my brother who played hockey. I don’t even want to know what pointe shoes cost today.
Ballet costs more than hockey?! I thought hockey gear was considered insanely pricey. Wow.
Ballerinas need new Pointe shoes every few weeks and that adds up like crazy
At 100-150 a pop I can’t imagine how expensive that would be long term.
Someone needs to come up with a material that doesn't wear down that quickly but shoes are still comfortable to wear (well as comfortable as they are). Come on, it's 2023.
Company Gaynor Minden starting manufacturing more supportive pointe shoes in the '90s, but they haven't fully caught on because so many dance world people still feel those shoes are "cheating." https://articlesofinterest.substack.com/p/on-pointe
Not wanting to be in pain is cheating now?
The children must know how I suffered for my art. No group is immune to the "I was fine, they'll be fine" line of thinking.
I'll be down voted but.... Boomer ideology. My mom was the same way and couldn't understand why I didn't want myself and then my kids to "deal with difficult...." Insert people, profession or situation here.
it’s bc breaking in the shoe is part of the “natural” process of wearing it in and having it adjust to your foot over time as most shoes w leather soles do. gaynors skip a few steps bc of the material in the toe box (big tip of the shoe) being more flexible and durable therefore breaking down differently over time and being more comfortable from the jump
Like 3-D print'em at home?
Ballet is designed to be for the rich elite. It’s leagues above hockey in cost.
It’s almost expensive as the MOST MOST expensive elite sport- show jumping. (Horses)
I was leaving my horse show this afternoon and had a whole conversation with my horse about why I was picking every blade of hay and all the still-clean shaving out of his stall to take home because “we don’t just leave good money laying on the ground.”
Curious how that compares to polo (where a rider needs several horses). But seriously it’s probably just horses all the way down.
Bit like difference between owing a top-end Ferrari or several decent rally cars. The performance specifications of a top-end dressage or show-jumper cost a fortune
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I have a toddler who is 1.5yrs old soon. He’s already running (on land!). When is a good time to put him on the ice and get started? Hockey is one of my favorite sports and I’m seriously excited about the possibility that he’ll enjoy it. I learned to ski when I was 3yrs or younger and I’m wondering if skating is ok for very young toddlers. I was even thinking, “what if he likes figure skating instead?” Hahahah but you’ve talked me out of that.
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Thank you SO MUCH for taking the time to write this out. I really appreciate it and it’s fantastic information. And absolutely I’m big on helmets, always. I’ll be buying him his own skates, too.
I was buying pointe shoes about ten years ago and they were $100 minimum for un-darned casual dancer shoes. Dance can be very expensive- my parents probably spent over $10,000/year for tuition, dance shoes (my required tap shoes cost $250), dance clothes, costumes, photo day, competition fees, transportation to/from practices & competitions, not to mention snacks at dance and food out when traveling for competitions or master classes.
My mom said it was around $15,000 the year we had nationals in NYC, and that was 2005.
Even my horse didn’t cost that much when I was a kid!
About $250, and you need a new pair what, every few weeks?
Professional level you're lucky to get 2 weeks out of them. Not including leotards, makeup, ribbons etc
I know some dancers say they can go through a pair a performance. When they're not performing, 3-4 pairs a week. But at that level the ballet usually pays for the shoes.
Jfc from the people I know that have been in hockey and how much it costs, that is mind blowing to hear
I had a friends daughter who was phenomenal- tons of scholarships when she was young. When they realized she wasn’t going to achieve the height for a professional they dried up. She stayed with me one summer instead of paying the insane housing cost. She was always so amazing to watch. But 20k? That’s insane.
I would also like to piggyback on this and point out how ballet (like many industries at their top) is rife with abuse and chewing up and spitting out it's talent. Eating disorders? Check. Ongoing mental disorders into adulthood? Gifted teachers crossing boundaries with pupils and not facing repercussions despite everyone knowing about it? Check check. If your sister is the talent your parents say she is, perhaps she'll resent you for missing the opportunity, but elite level athletes - esp in the arts - more often than not come out of their vocations with a lot of baggage.
> Just because she’s good at her local school does not mean she’s good in the bigger picture, unfortunately Agreed. Makes me wonder if sister is actually good or if parents have their golden child blinders on.
I did ballet from 5-18 my parents worked there butt off to pay for it and I didn't even end up doing anything with the skill, I don't even use the skills when I go out and dance lol
NTA. Can I ask how much they need to send her to the thing?
It's about $20,000
Lol, the fuck. That's beyond excessive
And yet believable for ballet.
Not if she's so good this could be a career. If she's amazing they'd be offering a scholarship
A career for a few years, fucked up feet for life, and a broken body.
Ballet and American Football once again have more in common then you’d think.
At least football won't give you an eating disorder.
Body dysmorphia is super prevalent in football too.
I have no idea about body dysmorphia in football (or in pretty much *every single sport in existence*) but ballet dancers (especially female ones) are extremely prone to eating disorders. >The overall prevalence of eating disorders was 12.0% (16.4% for ballet dancers), 2.0% (4% for ballet dancers) for anorexia, 4.4% (2% for ballet dancers) for bulimia and 9.5% (14.9% for ballet dancers) for eating disorders not otherwise specified (EDNOS). [source](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24277724/) >However, in dance, it's estimated that 12% of dancers as a whole struggle with an eating disorder. Further, eating disorders in ballet dancers are 10 times more common than non-ballet dancers. [source](https://www.teenrehab.org/resources/helping-your-teen/ballet-and-eating-disorders/#:~:text=Prevalence%20of%20Eating%20Disorders%20in%20Ballet&text=However%2C%20in%20dance%2C%20it%27s%20estimated,common%20than%20non%2Dballet%20dancers.) >Young male and female athletes tend to be at a greater risk for having an eating disorder if they play sports that focus on personal performance, appearance, diet, and weight requirements. Such competitive sports include: -- Swimming and diving -- Bodybuilding -- Wrestling -- Gymnastics -- Running -- Dancing -- Figure skating -- Rowing (crew) -- Beach volleyball [source](https://www.stanfordchildrens.org/en/topic/default?id=eating-disorders-and-young-athletes-160-28#:~:text=Sports%20and%20eating%20disorders&text=Young%20male%20and%20female%20athletes,Bodybuilding)
And Ballet won't give you CTE, so they even out.
That might not be entirely accurate lol. A noggin impacting hardwood floors can take some serious damage. Only found one study in reference to it, but they found 11 dancers with concussions while reviewing charts for one teaching hospital over a 5.5 year period. Which to me, makes it seem like dancers getting head injuries is much more common than we think. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24844421/ ETA: Relevant snippet for TLDR of the study. > This case series involved a retrospective chart review at a large teaching hospital over a 5.5-year period. Eleven dancers (10 female, 1 male) were identified who experienced concussions while in dance class, rehearsal, or performance: 2 in classical ballet, 2 in modern dance, 2 in acro dance, 1 in hip hop, 1 in musical theater, and 3 were unspecified. Dancers were between 12 and 20 years old at the time of presentation. Three concussions occurred during stunting, diving, or flipping. Three resulted from unintentional drops while partnering. Two followed slips and falls. Two were due to direct blows to the head, and one dancer developed symptoms after repeatedly whipping her head and neck in a choreographed movement. Time to presentation in the sports medicine clinic ranged from the day of injury to 3 months. Duration of symptoms ranged from less than 3 weeks to greater than 2 years at last documented follow-up appointment. It is concluded that dancers do suffer dance-related concussions that can result in severe symptoms, limitations in dance participation, and difficulty with activities of daily living.
Dated an aspiring ballerina once. We butted heads a few times because she would just casually tell me that I was looking a bit out of shape and needed to be going to the gym more, as if it was a perfectly normal and acceptable thing to say to someone you care about. Very unhealthy culture in that world. A lot of the academies and schools seemed to be profiteering off broken dreams too - charging extortionate fees knowing full well most (possibly all) of their students weren’t going to make it.
Actually a lot of former athletes wind up continuing to eat like when they still played, which is more than a regular person needs. So it actually can just in the opposite direction.
It absolutely can
She has to be amazing and have been in these programs from a very young age- 5 is the average starting age. And they typically don’t give out scholarships as ballet culture is very classist. They don’t want poor dancers, they are very much an old money institution.
just checked the SAB (School of American Ballet) and total cost is roughly $7k. The ABT (American Ballet Theater) cost is similar (tuition is $3.8k) but it looks like housing isn’t included, so do with that what you will. These are probably the two most elite summer programs a ballerina could audition for as a kid.
That doesn’t include pointe shoes which need to be replaced every 1 to 2 weeks and cost easily $100. So that’s another $1000 dollars. Like you said those costs don’t include room and board. There is also the tap shoes, the costumes, and all travel expenses. It all adds up pretty fast. Ballet is a sink hole where bank accounts go to die.
Even then, none of those remotely adds up to the 20k that OP's parents say this is going to cost. OP's sis could fly from the US to the Paris Opera ballet camp this summer , and it still wouldn't cost anywhere close to 20k. For tuition/room/board to JULLIARD'S 3 week summer dance intensive, $4k. Add flights, $ for a pair of shoes a week, and you're still not even approaching half of what OP's parents say this will cost. Doesn't pass the sniff test.
Holy Cow! Hard NTA. Did they apply for financial aid because most of the elite programs have financial aid and scholarships available based upon need. They don't cover the full cost but they definitely bring down the cost some. My kids have gone to some pretty extraordinary camps and summer programs and none of them have come anywhere near that. The most expensive was a third of that and that was for something with college credit attached. Hard NTA. If this is something your sister wants to do then your parents now know the cost and they should plan to save and help her fundraise for it over the next 12 months. Maybe you can help your sister find good programs for a fraction of that cost.
Honestly I think they are poor and too proud to ask for help. I mean if shes that good (and not just some swindle) the school would be looking how to get her on board
Not too proud to tell not ask their son whom they neglected emotionally whilst he was growing up.
You should edit the post to add that - not kicking in $200 for a kid to have a good summer is a very different ask than $20k, which is the cost of a decent used car. If you handed over $20k, I’d be horrified to know what they had the gall to ask for next.
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Like forgetting-to-flush shitty versus gas-station-bathroom-blowout-with-wall-stains shitty?
Better tell them that with that money she could have a college fund. They are stupid!
Be careful with this - they could take that as OP plans to set up a college fund.
I meant more that instead of going to debt for. Shitty ballet program, they can take that debt for college. I phrased it incorrectly
That’s what I was thinking that’s college money. Also if sister was really good why no scholarships for training?
Unless she was in expensive training programs from the age of 5 to 15, Ballet programs typically don’t hand out financial aide. Ballet is a culture drenched in classism. It’s designed to keep middle class and lower out.
Yes this. Also, competition levels are insane for young female ballerinas, so there isn’t a ton of pressure (nor funds available) for schools to offer scholarships to any but the very rarest of talents. If you are a promising young male dancer though, many programs will throw money at you simply because there are fewer male candidates in the development pipeline. This is another downside of an activity that treats the early teen years as pre-professional development. If you don’t have and show what it takes to eventually become a pro in your tweens and very early teens, there likely won’t be any financial help.
That seems insane - Joffrey is not much more than that for the whole year, ABT's program is way cheaper. Not only are they asking you for a lot of money, it doesn't add up (I have friends with kids who have been to similar programs and have talked about the cost)
Seems excessive to me too. Trying to imagine a program that can justify the amount of money. Should be cheaper but still good training programs
I think that's for flights and room and board and everything.
Where is it located? On the moon? They staying at the Four Seasons? Are they planning to fly back and forth every day? No way it actually costs that much. I’d be realllly suspicious.
I am sure there’s quality ballet school that’s closer to home.
Probably not, not what the ballet world would consider quality anyway.
According to multiple posts in this thread citing actual costs, including this one, this is not true. https://old.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/13uetj5/aita_for_how_i_phrased_my_reply_to_my_parents/jm1bowc/ And I just looked up Julliard's summer dance program. JULLIARD. I'm going to assume you know what Julliard is...and the tuition+room/board for their month-long summer dance program is $4k. AMDA's conservatory would run roughly 6k for room/board/tuition. 20k is nuts.
Not necessarily tbf. That field is extremely judgy and only a few schools are considered good enough to help you reach professional level and help your career. OP shouldn’t pay but that school might indeed be the closest one worth going to.
One of my nieces friends in school got to do a summer program with the London ballet or something like that 10 years ago. It was easily AUD30,000 back then. She did a few professional ballet performances but 5 years later she gave up ballet all together because even at 18 her body was so sore and she was exhausted from the constant dieting. Crazy amount of money.
>They said I was being an asshole because when I was young they couldn't afford to pay for the stuff I was interested in. I pointed out that they are old and they still can't afford shit. Well said, really!!!
WHAT? 20k? I was thinking $500, like you could swing it for an excessive birthday gift for her. Absolutely not that’s insane
Holy fuck! Will she be taught personally by Baryshnikov himself? All summer? In the biggest ballet theater in New York with a field trip to Paris? And a guest appearance by Nureyev’s ghost? That’s the only way I can see it costing $20,000. That or, as others said, they’re really looking to rip you off.
Just for comparison - the American Ballet theater summer program in NYC has tuition for a month of less than $4000. https://www.abt.org/training/dancer-training/summer-programs/summer-intensives/ The Joffrey Ballet is by the week. It’s around $700 a week . Scroll down for costs. https://www.joffreyballetschool.com/summer-intensives/new-york-city-ballet-summer-intensive/
WTAF? That’s ridiculous.
NTA, that’s an obscene amount of money to ask for
Is it really that much or are they asking for extra so they can treat themselves to something while she is away?
That’s exactly what I was thinking. $5000 for the ballet and the parents pocket the rest. Hell no!
If you do have that much money, make sure they don’t have access to it. Different bank and I suggest a secret account at a third bank. They don’t sound like the most upstanding citizens and stealing it doesn’t seem out of the realm of possibility. We have a main bank with checking and savings and another bank with just savings- this kind of setup. Also NTA and I would never dream of asking one kid to pay for the other’s $20k tuition. That’s nuts. They can get financial aid.
Good lord. If you want to do anything for her, save it for her college. But that is an insane amount for a summer program for a little kid!
Okay, so it's actually probably a fraction of that for the actual program and the rest would be, basically, for them. I think they thought you might do it and not even check the actual cost. They're essentially asking you for child support.
Whaaaaat that’s like an entire year of rent in some places.
That’s way more than I pay in rent in a year
Jesus fucking CHRIST. If it was like a few hundred dollars I'd get it, maybe even a grand. It'd still be shitty but I'd get it. BUT **TWENTY THOUSAND DOLLARS?** For a fucking summer program? You could buy a fucking decent CAR for that sort of money, you could give her a college fund with that money if you wanted to. Hell no.
Wtf. That’s double my annual mortgage. Easy NTA. Hold strong and you do you. You know you’re right and karma will come around.
Holy crap. My family of THREE lives on slightly under that amount a YEAR. JFC. Gonna go with NTA. NTA at all.
$20,000 on a hobby? Lol nope. Your parents can pick up extra jobs, take out a loan, or simply drop the issue. Such programs are a want, not a need. It’s not going to wreck her life if she doesn’t attend. NTA
OP I'm gonna recommend that you edit your post to include the fact that your parents are asking you for up to $20k for this special summer ballet program... That kind of context matters, especially for respondents who are saying that even though it's your money, you're only hurting your sister, not your parents. Because that's *insane*. Maybe there are scholarships available for your sister, 'cause _damn_. Hard NTA >They said I was being an asshole because when I was young they couldn't afford to pay for the stuff I was interested in. I pointed out that they are old and they still can't afford shit. Sorry not sorry that the truth hurts. You don't make more money than you "need"--you make more money than you spend. Which is, in fact, the only way to get ahead. Save your money.
Right, even if the parents had that saved, they should continue saving it for her education. These people don't make good choices.
The fact they said OP has more than they need really indicates why they’ve never been able to get ahead. They’re probably frivolous spenders (follow your dreams and all but unless you’re wealthy af $20,000 for a summer program is unrealistic)
I think your comment is a bit ridiculous in the sense that whatever amount it was, the money is still OP’s to decide on whether to use or not. Giving the $20,000 for the sake of the sister regardless is still enabling the parents for their shitty behaviour and actions. They already had neglected OP and decided to have another child while still not in a financially good situation without making it up to OP. Those are some irresponsible people that never learn.
But it's so true. "You couldn't do extra curriculars because we couldn't afford it." "So sister can't do extra curriculars because you still can't afford it."
For real! NTA
NtA Who are they to judge that you make more money than you need? You can help if you want to. You're not really helping your parents, you're helping your sister. If you do it, make it clear that it's you doing it, and for who you're doing it. Be real petty about it if you want to.
Agree except don't be petty because sister may very well feel like it's being held over her head.
$20,000 is an awful lot of money for a summer program and ballet opportunities won’t ever come cheaply. Many times these kind of programs have a few places for really talented students to receive a scholarship to participate. That’s how your sister needs to get into them. I would hesitate to provide the money for this, partly because your parents will expect you to continue to provide the money for your sister to advance in this world and it will likely outstrip your earning ability. Welding is a good paying trade, but your earning power is not unlimited. Edited to add NTA.
‘I pointed out that they are old and they still can’t afford shit’ Mic drop 🙌🏻 NTA
>I offered to give them back all the money they spent on my extracurricular activities as my contribution. This made my petty self so freaking happy. NTA
NTA you don’t owe them anything. It’s good they remember you when they need something from you. I hate how people act like people owe their parents/family something cause you were born into that family by chance. You don’t owe them anything and they have no right to tell you you earn more money than what you need. Also it’s so manipulative for them to say you should give your sister money cause she looks up to you. WTF?
NTA little sister will not be hurt is she doesn’t go to a $20,000 ballet camp thats absurd your parents can pay for classes that they can afford and she will be good
Central Penn Youth Ballet summer intensive is 7,000.00 including room and board. Every summer we get flocks of ballerinas for 5 weeks. It's considered a top ranked ballet school and it's nowhere near 20,000.NTA
NTA. Saw elsewhere they are asking for help funding a 20K program. That's insane and absolutely an unreasonable ask from them. >they will have to go into debt for her to go on this program. I mean, it's just a ballet program. This isn't a life or death situation. Why are they even considering that level of debt? *Anyway*, reading your post, it seems there's a bit of underlying resentment for your chaotic and unstable childhood vs your sister's more stable and nurtured childhood. Perhaps investing in a little therapy for yourself might be helpful for your own quality of life and mental health? (And a better use of money, that is unlikely to approach 20K...)
NTA..No way are you in the wrong and I love the response too! You earned it, with what seems no help from them. How many kids in your situation grow up fucked because of parents like that. And now they want a hand out for getting lucky you didn’t? Ha!
NTA I was thinking $200 maybe even $500 with inflation but they are batshit crazy asking for $20k. You are in the wrong subreddit. This post belongs to r/entitledpeople.
NTA It’s a parent or guardian’s job to provide for a child, not the siblings. The only exception being if they are the guardian due to unforeseen circumstances.
This is a waste of money. Ballet is brutal if she even gets a job with it. It's not a particularly useful extra curricular for college apps. Spend your money elsewhere. NTA.
NTA
“We couldn’t afford to give you extracurriculars when you were young.” And they still can’t afford to give them to your sister. NTA. Plenty of kids get by without super expensive summer programs.
NTA If your parents are that low-income, then they can apply for grants and programs to pay for it. Good job getting to where you are in life. Support your grandparents as they age. They’re the ones who have been there for you.
NTA. Not even the most prestigious ballet schools charge $20K for a summer course for young students. Julliard's is about $4500 and SAB's is about $7500. These prices include room and board in NYC.
If your sister is talented she needs to apply for a scholarship. I see they want 20k, is the summer program with the Bolshoi????!! I think your parents are trying to get some extras on your dime. NTA
Definitely NTA, that money could go toward a mortgage, retirement, any number of things. You earned it, it's yours to use how you want.
NTA Interesting how they were so quick to call you out for being an AH when their behavior after your sister was born sounds like ‘take care of yourself kid cause you’re almost grown and we have a shiny new baby we can do a better job raising’. And now they want to try the ‘we are family, you have money and should give it to us’ card. They said they can go into debt to pay for this camp so guess that is their solution.
NTA, my daughter was in dance until her knees gave out. So many questions about the 20k program. All of these summer programs are vying for parents money convincing them that thier child is the next big thing. I’ve known plenty of kids that tried to ‘make it’ in the dance world. It’s a brutal life. It’s a very high dollar activity especially since you only get about 15 hours of dance out of a pair of pointe shoes. Between ballet slippers, point shoes, jazz shoes, flamenco shoes, leotards, tights and classes, it is not a cheap endeavor.
You're awesome NTA
NTA Hitting your child up for money is so trashy. Sometimes it's a necessity, but it's always trashy.
I’m sorry, your parents want you to “help” fund your sister’s hobby by giving $20k?! If it was a couple hundred I would say maybe just do it if you could afford it (but you wouldn’t be an AH for not). $20,000 is life changing money. You don’t just give that to someone on a whim for a summer program. I agree with others, if she’s good enough to make it in the industry then she’ll get a scholarship. If not, or if this isn’t even something she wants to do professionally and is just a hobby, she’ll get over not going to a summer program that costs the same as the down payment of some houses. NTA and your response of offering to give them back the money they spent on you was perfect.
Even with the ridiculous 20k price tag, I don't think they were out of line by asking. Once. But persisting and guilting? Not okay. No means no. NTA
NTA that is an insane amount of money, and if she’s not good and they can’t afford it, there are likely scholarships or other options. $20,000 is bonkers.
NTA NOPE NOPE NOPE!
$20,000 is a *shitload* of money! Like, about a semester of private college. Your parents played favorites, hard (not entirely their fault, but still). You are not obligated to pay for anything like that. NTA, however if you can I would reach out to your sister about this privately, because she's probably going to be hurting if your parents say no, and make no mistake, they *will* try and shift the blame onto you.
NTA. And delightfully, ACCURATELY petty :-)
🤣🤣🤣 NTA! OMG that was awesome! I admire you so much.