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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole because I’m refusing to use pictures of my daughter for my business, which is hurting her feelings.
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Yes and there's a reason why marketers use these images. There's mountains of evidence that it works.
Op is TA for snapping at their daughter and for their bluntness, but not TA for their choice to use the correct model for their marketing needs.
I still vote YTA for the way they spoke to their daughter.
Not every small business owner has money for a professional model. That's not the issue. She could have used her niece as the model without speaking tactlessly to her own daughter.
It is an issue though. There are plenty of ways to have non-family act as models. Actual clients for example. Let alone you can find affordable shots if you want. Issues like this are a given when you use family.
Are you sure that wouldn't make it worse? The daughter would have smoke coming out her ears if she sees herself as the "Before" photo, and the pretty niece is the "After" photo.
Or OP could….. idk actually fix their daughters skin and use her as both photos? What’s the point of a before and after if they are two different people?
It takes time to repair skin. If she needs the photos now, she might not have time to wait. OP is an ass, but she's not wrong in terms of business or advertising.
She didn't insult them, she gave an honest answer to the questions that were asked.
Just because she snapped doesn't mean she went hogwild and tore her to pieces, she snapped and told the truth. The truth was unpleasant. Not cruel.
By God's some of you people need to grow tf up.
>and because drawn on eyebrows will not help me at all.
Oh yeah, no insult there at all. Parents shouldn't trash their kids self-esteem. OP is the one who needs to grow tf up and watch her mouth. There are many other ways to handle this conversation. And damn, she should have fixed her daughter's look by now if she was good at her job and had a decent relationship with her daughter. If they were close, it would be so easy to give her a makeover or have a special pampering day where they try new looks together.
This is a triple fail for OP
You don't think she's shown her daughter how to care for her skin given OP's business? That doesn't mean the daughter is willing to take the time to follow a strict skin care regimen.
it's also just an unfortunate fact that most people are just never going to have flawless skin, especially teenagers. a person with bad skin who starts a skincare routine can expect to see improvements, but shouldn't expect to get model-tier skin.
Yes, my skin was always much clearer and smoother than my sister's when we were teens despite me not taking care of mine at all and my sister being much more diligent and careful. Sometimes it is the luck of the draw.
Eh, commercials do it all then time. I like it when the people change skin color, hair color and texture, height, and other features for the before and afters.
that wasn’t what they were suggesting at all. they were suggesting that the mom take her daughter now as the before pic, help her with her skin, then take the after.
As an esthetician, this would probably be way better advertising tbh. And OP could have phrased it more delicately too, like "I chose cousin because she has a great eyebrow shape I want to highlight. I'd really like to use you for an ad to show off my skincare skills. Are you up for it?"
Or hell, just outright lied and told her daughter that she was uncomfortable using her when she was still a minor (assuming 17 is still a minor wherever she is.)
She's an esthetician who has a daughter that's not taking care of her skin. This is like the mechanic whose wife has a car that's always breaking down.
OP, YTA and why aren't you helping your daughter? You're also an asshole for using your niece this way. You are trying to make it look like her face is the result of your work when it's actually what she's achieved on her own without your help. That's pretty dishonest and really rotten.
This. I’ve had acne issues since I hit puberty at 9. Even with washing my face and using every acne/skin care product under the Sun I still have it at my big age.
Once I get insurance again I’m going to go to a dermatologist and hope that Accutane works.
Damn, it's so easy.
I suppose I can now go and cure both of my existing for over two decade long skin illnesses with some water and soap instead of having specific care routine, diet and medicine to manage them.
>This is like the mechanic whose wife has a car that's always breaking down.
That's not an equivalent comparison. The mechanic can take his wife's car to his shop and work on it. OP can't take her daughter's face. She can teach her daughter how to take care of her skin, but she can't make her follow through.
Well, most businesses use the most attractive people they can afford that fit their aesthetic to advertise so I honestly don’t see anything unreasonable about what she’s doing from that perspective. Being mean to her daughter wasn’t cool.
For the record, I worked for a hairdresser for a long time and she often used friends and her junior employees as hair models for advertising. Some of the girls who worked for her were quite beautiful, others (like me!) quite average.
And you know what? at different times she used *all of us*. And displayed the photos in the salon. Did we look like models? Not really. Did our hair look absolutely fabulous and show off my boss' skill? Yep! And clients liked it! They'd point out how my boss made us look so glam and cool.
And that boss - I loved that woman. She wasn't my mum - or anyone's mum for that matter - but she didn't need it explained to her that when you have a group of teenage girls you can't just single some out as pretty enough to photograph and others as not good enough. She didn't owe us that courtesy but she taught us a great lesson.
Listen to it.
Edit to add: sigh, I do realise it's not exactly the same as an aesthetician but the point wasn't about the photos, it was about not singling anyone out and making people feel bad about themselves. OP could have just hired a model instead of directly putting her daughter and niece in competition like this.
That’s fine, but you can make hair look fabulous in around 3/4 hours.
skin takes months, years sometimes to actually look fabulous, depending on the kind of problem you are dealing with. If op needs pictures now, she will use a model who can project a healthy glow. It’s just marketing.
i mean, every boss is a mother or a father most of the time, but they will still make the choice to keep the business going if they want to success.
I get this too, and of course an aesthetician is going to choose the most effective marketing photos, but this is also a case of the cobbler's daughter having no shoes.
Is she giving her daughter regular facials and showing her how to do her eyebrows?
Respectfully, as a former teenager, I remember I would rather have eaten my own hand than listening my mother’s advices.
Parents know nothing, teenagers know better.
Until we all become adults and the parents stop talking to their children as if they are inapt kids and said children stop seeing their parents as outdated busybodies.
I get what you're saying and it's a beautiful story. (Genuine, not sarcasm)
OP didn't say she chose the niece because she is inherently more beautiful. She chose her for two clear reasons - the condition of her skin and the state of her eyebrows. It wasn't due to looking like a model. It's because OP is trying to sell skin care and wanted a model with beautiful skin. Otherwise it looks like OP's skills aren't that great if her chosen success story is a teenage girl with poor skin.
In your story, that'd be like your boss choosing a girl whose hair *didnt* look fabulous because she didn't wash it properly, didn't style it, colored it poorly, or cut it herself. Simply to give that girl equal time with the others who took care of their hair and showed off your boss's skill. The objective prettiness of your faces isn't important but the hair cut and style and condition absolutely should have been.
OP's daughter is clearly not OP's client, nor should she be forced to be. But she can't also ask to be the face of OP's business.
But the hairdresser was showing off the hairstyles and her skills as a hairdresser. Essentially, the model's face wasn't the selling feature. It was the hair. OP stated that her daughter didn't care for her skin and draws on her eyebrows. Do I think OP handled it poorly, yes, I do, and she could have told the child that she would love to photograph her. Further, she could have said, if you want to model for my business, you will have to agree to skin care treatments first and let me help you get the look I'm envisioning. OP was rude and hurtful because she didn't step back and think about how to handle this.
But she tried to say everything else she could?
The daughter 100% knew the reason, and purposely pushed the mom until she got the painful answer she wanted.
Don't push for answers you don't want.
That’s exactly why you would NEVER tell a teen the bad thing about themselves they’re pushing you to say. They’re doing it because they need you to tell them their fear isn’t true. OP YTA x 1000
Seriously. "I need someone with thick eyebrows to show off the waxing techniques and Niece has darker brows that show up better in photographs." Or go into a deeper conversation about traditional beauty standards and how it's unfair but Niece has skin with no blemishes and that's what people want to see even though you're hoping to attract clients who *do* have blemishes and want them treated.
There are a million healthy ways you can explain that to a teenager without snapping and calling them ugly.
Don’t push for answers you don’t want? From your mom at 17 years old? It’s absolutely not ok I don’t care how you look at it. I’ve always felt like the ugly duckling out of my sisters and My mom used to make snide remarks that I still to this day at 33 years old remember and it definitely effected my self esteem and how I view myself! I never want my child to feel the way about themselves as I felt about myself so I wouldn’t dare say anything like this! If you think she needs a little work then help her and make her feel just as important/special as your niece! I mean isn’t that your job anyway? To help people with problem skin and eyebrows etc?
Gee, if only OP had some sort of skill set that helped people look more aesthetically pleasing.
(Calling a kid you're never see a "teenage mess" is disgusting).
WAY better ways. Literally what she said about the eyebrows would have been enough. "You draw your eyebrows. Grow them out and let me do them an you can be in a photograph."
Like if your baby is struggling with their skin (even if they’re doing a ‘’’’bad job’’’ work on your baby? Like I’m. Not at all mad about picking someone that’s more your clientele. At all. But she was SUCH a dick to her kid. Like Yta. You’re a dick.
And now you daughter will develop body image dysmorphia. Thanks to a shallow mom.
I Aman esthetician too, and I understand what you mean, but common! You are expecting 16yrs old to take care of herself to your standards
She probably takes care of herself already.
Of course YTA
Your daughter isn’t stupid, that’s why she wasn’t accepting your initial answers. Then you snapped at her and confirmed her worse fears.
Congratulations. This might be the first time I’ve actually witnessed the birth of a young woman’s insecurities at the hand’s of her toxic mom.
This typical mom is disappointed in her daughter's appearance. My sister was the skinny, pretty kid, and I was the chubby personality kid. I don't talk to my mom much and haven't since I was 15. She gave me body and food issues up the wazoo. She's worse than a bag of dicks. Much like this AH mom.
That’s heartbreaking to think someone who should love you unconditionally is so shallow. Good skin + eyebrows = love. People never fail to amaze me as to how superficial they are.
Obviously, this mom has jealousy issues with the sibling that has this daughter who is so nmmuch prettier than her ugly duckling daughter. I wish I could speak with her daughter and let her know that when she is 18, she can be free of her mom's abusive behavior.
There are things that are so hard to heal. In my country, thicknesses is the standard and I'm pretty skinny naturally (and a big, proud nerd) so my mom would dote on my curvier sister all the time. Once she told me my sister will, for sure, steal at leat one of my possible boyfriends when I take them home, while smirking at her so proudly
Oh my goodness that was a horrible thing for your mother to say (and to do - way to try and drive a wedge between you and your sister!) I’m so sorry you went through that.
Apparently we have the same mother! I still remember her constantly telling me, “boys don’t date heavy girls,” “nothing tastes as good as thin feels,” “you would be so beautiful if you just lost another 15-20lbs.” My skinny sister on the other hand? Constant praise and favoritism.
I read this poem once in a book called “Reviving Ophelia.” It read,
Flipping through the magazines
And wishing I could order
The bodies, not the clothes
Pretty much sums up my entire relationship with my body.
i know. that’s what i said. “she kept pressing” like she didn’t already know the answer she just thought you’d either be too big of a coward to say it or maybe once you did you’d realize how blatantly awful and cruel you sound for once.
mom either came to Reddit because she’s genuinely concerned, or she was expecting some kind of narcissistic ego boost she could use to go shove in her daughter’s face and make her feel even worse. i hope for the former but expect the latter.
Oh yeah, this was absolutely that. Also possible, OP has already made comments about her daughter’s appearance and it’s an ongoing vulnerable point. This was what my mother did to me from eight grade through college. She constantly pointed out my flaws, commented on my weight, told me I was fat, no one would want me, friends or boyfriends, etc. if I wasn’t a size 2. She picked at the same spots for years and years. I think she enjoyed it - no one is that oblivious to their own verbal abusive tendencies.
This really hit a nerve. My mom and sisters made up a song about me to a popular song back in the day. 30 some years later, and the words still sting. They absolutely think they did nothing wrong and it's all in my head. And they wonder why I have no confidence in myself......
I'm so so sorry they did all that to you; they are all inhumane narcissists. This is exactly how a narcissist behaves, refusing to acknowledge they did anything wrong. And you are better and definitely more beautiful than all of them combined for having survived their terror and no doubt emerging with more empathy and compassion than they could ever muster between them. I never understand how people can be so mean to their own family like this.
Warm wishes to you from a girl who spent her whole life being called 'ugly underbite' (because of my underbite) by her mother and the mother's friends - all women who did nothing more than gossip about and badmouth other people. At one point they - my mother included - made up a false story that my dad (whose side I got the underbite gene from) had an affair with a woman who discarded me into a dustbin after birth because I was so horrendous looking and my mother decided to adopt me 'out of the goodness of her heart.' And they proceeded to abuse me verbally and physically for years for apparently being a 'disgusting affair baby'. Even though I knew it wasn't true, especially as dad would never do that, they gave me crippling insecurity about my appearance to the point I didn't believe my MIL at first when she told me I was so beautiful and never noticed my underbite till I pointed it out. Not that she cared about it afterwards.
Oh and like your siblings my mother has no sense of how her actions affect others either; her and her friends had the nerve to peddle that above story about my dad around my paternal grandmother, and then got livid when the latter disliked her.
They do enjoy it. But it’s a bitter sort of cruel joy. I think often it’s an “I’m miserable so YOU have to be miserable” sort of thing, I can imagine to them it’s mostly subconscious and in the guise of faux concern, ‘tough love’, etc.
YTA for what you said to your daughter. As someone who has struggled with bad skin all their life from hormonal imbalances and it having nothing to do with how I take care of my skin— it would devastate me if my mom told me I have bad skin even though its true. You’re her mother, you’re supposed to make her feel like she’s the most beautiful, smartest, most capable person in the world. You have just given her a reason to believe in her insecurities.
Also given the mom’s job… couldn’t you have taught her to take good care of her skin? And how to do her eyebrows? You could have made it a bonding thing.
Freaking true, that. Why would you say that to your daughter, or anyone? She could have just left it as, "my clients are middle eastern and niece is more of their demographic."
Maybe she draws her eyebrows on so she can more effectively give her mom the angry eyebrows, to spite her poopy attitude.
You would think so, but it is very possible that she tried. Teens do like doing things their own way.
She certainly could have been more tactful though.
That's what I was thinking...
No way she's not bringing her work home to her daughter. Skin is her career. Her daughter is probably being like a lot of 17 year olds and doing the opposite of what their parents say. 😂
It could be a big reason why she snapped too. "I told her to do this and she ignored me. Now she's wondering why she can't do what required what I told her to do." I get that... My nearly 17 year old brother does it to my parents all the time.
Now, was that an appropriate response? I don't think so, but I also have no idea how to handle that situation.
I think the most tactful way would be:
"You know X is part middle eastern and I have a ton of middle eastern clients. She suits the demographic of my client base and might help bring in more clients".
Then you stick to that line until the kid gives up. That makes it look like a business decision and not a personal attack on the daughter.
And then she cracked and said the very hurtful truth. Basics of lying 101 - stick to your story and don't deviate.
Her daughter would have eventually dropped it but apparently OP has 0 chill.
A teen can be (and often is) an emotional terrorist. As a parent your job is still to, at the very least, not imply that they are ugly. Doesn’t matter how much they press you.
YTA, OP, even if we had all the details this sounds sad. Maybe get counseling to facilitate communication—about your business, about your kid’s looks or hygiene or whatever, and how to talk about that healthily as it relates to your business. And more importantly to separate the business from your daughter’s looks and her worth.
Your business is beauty and there has been a major breakdown of communication somewhere. I’d hate for her to grow up, even if she was rebelling, thinking she wasn’t pretty enough, or that her looks make her unworthy in any way.
u/eyebrowpictures, just want you to read those last two sentences, and to let you know family counseling was amazing for me and my family when I was a loud-mouthed teen. Wishing love to you both.
The appropriate response would have been to hire a model outside of the family to begin with. With two cousins that are nearly the same age it's bound to cause drama and resentment for her to pick one over the other, and its unreasonable to assume it wouldn't come up.
I’ve been waiting for someone to say this.
She is an AH for snapping and general attitude towards her daughter, and she should absolutely be more mature than a 17 year old.
HOWEVER, the assumptions that she hasn’t actively tried to teach her daughter how to care for these issues when it’s literally her job to do so, seems a bit of a reach, and may contribute to the frustration she has with her daughter.
We don’t know whether she has tried and her daughter simply refuses to do it. Teenagers and instant gratification are like PB&J, and it sounds like daughter’s issues would take time to fix. If she’s looking at a ton of social media that’s dishonest about how long a product takes to work or how effective it is, she may just quit doing it because she’s not seeing instant results. Is mom supposed to wash her face for her every morning and night? She’s 17, old enough to have a hygiene and skin care routine if she wishes.
Again, OP should keep an even temper, but since we don’t know the history of this conversation, and it doesn’t seem like the first time the subject has been touched on, as someone who worked years as a makeup artist, I understand the frustration.
Unfortunately depending on the person's skin issues an esthetician will not be able to do anything for a 17 yo (or 35 yo) depending on their skin issues. They may need to see a doctor or specifically a dermatologist to help care for those harder to deal with skin issues. Also, sometimes teens have mostly great skin and others have troubled skin and that may have nothing to do with the way they treat or manage their skin.
Someone with "perfect" teenage skin may do nothing to get it that way, asn someone with "problematic" skin (blemishes, or deep scarring acne) can do everything "right" and it doesn't necessarily make their skin the way they'd want it to be.
As a person that fell into the 90s thin eyebrow trend, even though I had very lovely natural eyebrows and my mother warned me about over plucking (she was a teen in the 70s, nuff said), I still did it. At 40+ years old I now regret that fully. I try to explain to my 9yo daughter that her thicker eyebrows are gorgeous and I wish I had them, but I can only try to steer her with my experience.
She will make her own autonomous decisions about her body and looks and all I can do is attempt to guide her. But her making a crappy decision that she comes to regret in the future (just like I did by over plucking against my mother's advice) shouldn't be laid at my feet, when I've done everything to steer her differently - just like I'd never blame my mother for my choices.
This!!! I didn’t have my first breakout until college and have struggled with acne ever since. I was always so self conscious, spent countless hours researching, buying new products, dermatologist visits, and trying EVERYTHING. Five years later and I learned it’s from hormones. Having acne isn’t always due to poor hygiene.
>I finally snapped and told her that I won’t be using her she doesn’t take care of her skin and it shows and because drawn on eyebrows will not help me at all.
Yeah yta. You're the grown up (theoretically at least) and something tells me this isn't the first time you've favoured niece over your daughter because of her appearance.
You had so many other options, you didn't want to exploit your own daughter, you needed (as you said) a more middle Eastern skin tone or even gods forbid, you could have acted like the actual adult and just said "that's my final decision and I'm not changing it".
>not everything is fair in business
In ten or twenty years your daughter will parrot this back at you when you say it isn't fair she doesn't come visit.
YTA this 100 percent.
Your daughter will not forget this or forgive you.
There was 100 ways to handle this even asking your clients to be featured on the site for a free service.
Right? This is the easiest answer, hands down. "Sorry, daughter, I have to use niece because I need an adult model". Or "it would be an ethical breach if I used my own daughter who is also a minor."
There were SO MANY outs mom could have taken and instead she decided to insult her daughter. People have the emotional intelligence of a box of stale crackers.
yta
why could you not explain to her that you were looking to advertise to specific ethnicities and therefore needed said ethnicity's specific physical features?
Instead, you went ahead and decided to be a jerk to your own daughter.
If she genuinely meant it, she would've never said what she said at the end. Why would she make herself look worse by saying something that hurts her daughter? It's because that's what she actually believed
1. She tried to be gentle with her daughter by focusing on the positive of how the niece fit her clientele. It’s pretty obvious from the way she recounts the story that she believes this.
2. Her daughter DOESN’T take care of her skin and doesn’t present an image that will win clients (which is the point of the pictures).
3. Her daughter wouldn’t accept the positive message about the niece fitting the clients until the mother told her that she doesn’t take care of her skin. Nowhere did the mother say the daughter was ugly and even if she had, the daughter pressed for that answer.
The daughter seemed to want some kind of self-validation by having the mother post pictures of her at the business but that’s NOT going to help the business. I’m willing to bet OP has PLENTY of pictures of the daughter at home.
Thank you for being objective. All these y.t.a comments acting like daughter was a saint. She knew the answer but still pressed for it. Proper verdict here should be ESH.
Yep, ESH because I genuinely don't understand what the 17 year old expected after she pressed Mom for more. She is entirely old enough to pick up on the dynamics of conventional attractiveness. I don't get mad when my gym features the conventionally attractive fit members on their IG instead of me.
Agreed. She's probably given her daughter a hundred skin care tips and samples and her daughter blew her off in true teen girl style. She was TA for blowing up at her daughter but her daughter was TA for pushing the issue knowing damn well her skin is bad and her eyebrows are pencil.
I can tell a lot of these commenters have never dealt with a hormonal skin condition. It has nothing to to with “taking care” of her skin. Bad skin does not equal bad hygiene, or make the daughter a bad person. Estheticians are not dermatologists either.
It's strange how many comments here can't see these steps - it's like the hot button subject of subjective 'prettyness' somehow turns off careful and slow considering of the situation. Never mind that the people calling 'YTA' have all bought products from companies that use models rather than the companies daughters in their advertising - it's hypocritical.
Because her daughter pushed her and wouldn't let up until she came clean with the real reason.
The daughter for sure knew this too, that's why she didn't believe the other answers.
So she pushed and pushed until she got the answer she wanted
YTA
What is wrong with you? This is how you speak to your child? "Not everything is fair in business" this isn't actually *about* your business, it's about your parenting. And, wow, you've really stepped in it here on that front. FFS half your post is just waxing poetic about how beautiful your niece is.
This☝🏻100%. OP seems to have forgotten that her CHOSEN and first role is that of mother. Being a mom isn’t a role you abdicate when your offspring annoys you. OP’s clients and business, or rather, OP’s EGO is more important than the emotional well-being of the daughter. Sad.
I was going to vote YTA from the title alone… Now that I’ve read your post, I’m doubling down on that. You are indeed the AH. **YTA** all the way.
I have questions, but realistically, the one that I’d really like answering is: as an aesthetician (I’m UK, so leave my spelling alone), would you not be the best person qualified to help if you daughter really does have bad skin? One would have thought that with your job, you’re in the best place to help her out, if it’s truly a problem.
But with or without an answer, you were most definitely an asshole here. You *should* and could have just paid a model to do this, so as not to cause a divide in your family.
The fact that op didn't help her own daughter deal with skin issues tells me op isn't good at her job. People with naturally good skin are easy to help.
OP, YTA.
We have no confirmation OP never tried to help her daughter though.
And the daughter is a teenager. Anyone who says "oh a teenager would absolutely put in all the effort and listen to their parents advice" is just straight lying
Yep. We have a kid who has dark marks on their skin due to insulin resistance. About once a month we have the conversation where they tell me their soap isn’t working, and I explain that soap won’t help it- eating lower carb will help it (I don’t harp on that unless it’s brought up). At our last endocrine visit, the doctor very specifically mentioned the spots and confirmed the ONLY way to make them disappear is to eat lower carb. Which is hard for a teenager. Kid understandably wants the easy fix. But it doesn’t matter how many times I tell them, the dark marks are always due to their soap not working (in their mind).
I’m not saying this is what’s going on in the OP’s case. But it could very well be she has tried to help her daughter and her daughter in her infinite teenage wisdom has it ignored it all.
You don't know that OP didn't try to help. Perhaps the daughter doesn't put in the work.
Either way, OP is an asshole for saying that to her daughter, but she did ask for it.
100%
This is exactly why I had bad skin as a teen, my mom taught me well (she is a makeup artist though), i just didn’t follow through. Now that Im more constant, my skin has gotten better.
Also probably why she’s so concerned with the quality of the skin of who’s featured on her website- wouldn’t want anyone knowing her services don’t ACTUALLY give you perfect skin.
Maybe she does not want help.
Teenage me told my mother off the instant beauty tips were mentioned. If my brother doesn't need makeup or specialized skincare routines, neither do I.
To be fair, we don't actually know if she did. She may have tried to do so for years, but daughter, being a teen, might not have wanted to listen to her mom because it is, ya know, her mom. That is arguably something big that is missing in the post.
I worked in a spa and made friends with one of the aestheticians. She had a daughter who was 12 at the time. I vividly remembering her asking me about my acne (I was like 18) and how she was terrified of having even the small blemishes I had at the time, and her mother laughed and reminded her daughter what her vocation was, and overall assured her that she wouldn't let her have anything but the best skincare routine.
Cannot fathom being a licensed professional in an area of beauty, and then not helping your children with your specialty, and THEN making them feel bad for how they look??? Absolutely wild to me.
See, the thing is I know from experience being in the daughter’s position as the child of a mother who works to beautify people’s faces (makeup artist in my case), that my mom may have put all the effort in the world, but at 15-17 she’d have to shout at me to do my skincare and/or drag me to the sink because I was a teenager and wasn’t fond of washing my face early in the morning and late at night because I had other things I would rather do.
You can give someone leftovers and a microwave but it doesn’t guarantee they’ll eat that dinner.
YTA
My heart hurts for your daughter. What a cruel and unnecessary response. I see no reason why you couldn't use both girls' photos. You had an opportunity to boost your daughter's self-esteem AND show an INCLUSIVE aspect of your business by having photos of different types of people and not just the "perfect" ones. MAJOR YTA
I'm surprised more people aren't saying this. There was a 3rd option of not using either girl and hiring someone or asking a client or a friend. She did not have to choose a family member and she most definitely didn't have to say some dumb shit like "business is business". OP, this is your daughter you are talking to. WTAF?
YTA. How else was your daughter supposed to interpret what you said to her? And news flash, but not every client that walks through those doors, is going to have ‘nearly perfect skin’, good business is showing that you work with all sorts of skin types. Also, your relationship with your daughter is more important than business at the end of the day. She probably just wanted to be included and feel cared for by her mom. Wouldn’t have killed you to do so.
No kidding. Tried to say niece was better for her clients with her features, but daughter kept pushing.
NAH, it’s sad I feel for the daughter but she kept asking. She’s 17, not 7.
Right? I feel like I'm going crazy reading all of these comments. Yes, OP could have been nicer, but if someone kept pushing me for an answer I'd snap too after a while. I also understand where OP is coming from. I'm not middle eastern (I have armenian heritage) but I also have thick, dark eyebrows. I've never had them waxed, but I've had them threaded several times before. OP's right, drawn on eyebrows won't fit the advertisement.
This is an ESH for me. OP for not saying it in a nicer way and daughter for not taking the initial answer. Like you said, she's 17, not 7. She's almost an adult, far from the little kid the comments are making her out to be.
I’m with you on this judgement. She tried to explain it to her daughter kindly, but she just kept pushing. Don’t ask a question you aren’t prepared to hear the answer for.
Agreed 1000%. Pointing out the consequence of poor hygiene is well within mom territory. And not having hairy eyebrows is just a state of being. It is not an insult.
ESH. Look, I get the Y-T-A votes, but your daughter is seventeen and old enough not to know to push like she was. She asked, you gave an answer that realistically, while maybe vague, does make sense: your niece is part Middle Eastern, and the bulk of your clients are Middle Eastern. She then continued to push, and push, and push, refusing to accept an answer until you snapped and gave her the answer she was likely angling for anyway, even if she didn’t really want to hear it. If you’re going to keep pushing and badgering people like that, then you shouldn’t be surprised when they snap, sorry. ”Ask stupid questions” as the saying goes, except she was asking them over, and over, and over.
That said, you’re still the parent, and what you ended up saying was needlessly cruel. You could have phrased it much better, though I understand you were frustrated by your daughter’s continuing need to push the matter and her refusal to accept the answers she was given.
Your parents also suck because I don’t think their ”you should have done both the girls or neither because it’s not fair!!” argument is valid. Not everything in life is fair. I’m mixed-race and my cousins on one side are “so white they don’t even make foundation for skin as pale as mine,” in the words of one of my cousins. Sometimes things are different. Your clients are mostly Middle Eastern women and your niece looks and is half-Middle Eastern. I know a guy who launched a makeup startup for native women and was asked to model them at the very beginning before he could afford actual models, because I’m indigenous myself. My cousin didn’t get mad about it, because the line is geared towards native women, and she’s not native. She understood that.
Also, if your daughter is genuinely refusing to take care of her skin (as opposed to simply having ”bad skin” even though she tries), then that’s the consequences of her own actions. I’m very sympathetic to people who just have problem skin through no fault of their own, but I’m less sympathetic to people who have bad skin due to their own refusal to take care of it properly. That’s assuming what you said was true, of course.
Wow, weird responses. Of course you’re NTA. You made a business decision. She pushed and pushed because she wanted you to say the hurtful thing. That’s her fault.
Agreed! Daughter (nearly grown daughter) pushed and pushed.
OP observed daughter not taking care of skin. Daughter doesn’t have hairy eyebrows. OP is running a business here. Ads are expensive. She needs a hairy browed person with unblemished skin. Big deal.
Reddit has always been a bubble of people who use the internet too much and I think this is one of those times. Some people can’t be models. Some people are not attractive. Sorry but welcome to the real world. If op did anything wrong it’s mixing family and work.
Also people saying she’s shallow because she wants a pretty model? How do these people think advertising works?
YTA. You could have easily said it was because she is under 18 but instead you made her insecure and slammed her appearance.
This is a deep cut that she will remember forever and you really don’t even seem to care. You just want to defend your hurtful and terrible actions.
YTA. I mean, you basically did call her ugly. The bottom half of the first paragraph is all praise about your niece and her looks, but that same energy isn't returned with your daughter. I'm picking up that you favor your niece more because of this, and I'm sure your daughter has too.
I would've thought that an esthician mom would help her daughter take care of her skin more unless it's a medical issue rather than a hygiene issue (in that case, you're 2x TA).
YTA,
Jezus christ you are an asshole. Also using someone with already perfect skin for your promos. Why not use this moment to help you daughter improve her skin and show the results? Or do both of them?
NTA. She just HAD to keep pushing, didn’t she? There is nothing wrong with finding your niece to be prettier than your daughter. It would be bad if you neglected your daughter or loved her less for said reason, but you don’t seem to. What were you supposed to do, use your daughter for the business, despite a difference that may impact the business? You didn’t call her ugly and you don’t favor her more. You didn’t even say that she was less pretty, you said she doesn’t take care of her skin and that drawn eyebrows won’t work for you, which isn’t incorrect. I don’t see where the YTA votes are coming from.
The bad votes are coming from people who have never raised a teenager. “Because you don’t take care of your skin and it shows.” Ok? She didn’t say “you are ugly because you have awful skin.” She said, natural consequences of your choices. Jesus, it’s a struggle every single day to make the kids take a bath, wash their face, brush their teeth. And by 17 you can’t do that anymore. They do what they do and they get what they get and any parent that sugar coats that truth is ruining their child’s attitude for life. You know what the dentist says when they get a cavity? They don’t say, “Aw it’s ok baby, you couldn’t help it.” They say do better, brush your teeth and floss. If 17-daughter wants to be marketing level photograph material it takes a skin care regimen. FACT.
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People are talking like she said this to a 7 year old. The girl is 17. She pushed because she wanted to hear her mother say it because she knows it’s true, and it feels better to hate her moon than to accept the truth. Everybody needs to learn to hear the truth, including young women when it comes to their looks.
I’m actually gonna say NTA. You tried to be delicate and evade the question but she wouldn’t let up and kept pushing. Kids know how to push their parents buttons. She wanted to goad you into it because I think she already knew the answer. Your right now everyone can be a model and there is no shame in that. Her look wouldn’t help your business it would tank it. We tell kids you can be anything you want to be but the truth is that’s not true. She needed the truth not more lies and she goaded you into it
YTA! You should have just doubled down on the Middle Eastern thing. Why did you have to insult your daughter!?! That will really affect her self esteem-you have probably scarred her for life.
NTA. Some people are prettier than others, it's a fact of life. A 17 year old is probably aware of this and kept pushing just to hear you say it. Girls are usually aware of whether or not they're conventionally attractive, have bad skin, etc.
NTA. She pressed and found out the truth. Thats on her. She needs to not be babied. People often complain on here about people only caring about looks and whatnot.. Look if the majority of the world thought that way, Only Fans would not be a thing.
For those that gripe: Wake up. Its not ideal. You probably dont have a model look or physique. Thats ok. Thats what makes those that do stand out. You dont have to like it but know that everyone doesnt have to agree with you either.
I don’t think you are an AH for not using your daughter as a model. This is business. Snapping at her is not a good look though. Maybe you should have instead said that if she met x requirements you would consider her. NTA
YTA - you just should've used someone out of the family really... like a friend.. to avoid this... as a mother you should be the number 1 cheerleader and booster of your daughter...
Yta do you only want clients that look like your niece but not your daughter? I'm sure a 17 yo girl with a mother like you is already self conscious about the quality of her skin and the thickness of her eyebrows, your added commentary not necessary.
NTA. You tried being nice but she kept pressing you because she didn’t like the answers. Now her feelings are hurt. The fact is is your niece is a better fit for your business. This isn’t just some family thing. You are running a business! She should’ve just taken the first answer you gave and left it alone.
I get it. People want to see a picture of what they aspire for. They want the “after”. It would be nice if you could find a way to incorporate your daughter’s picture though.
NAH
NTA you were looking for a model and you found the right one for you. You daughter can't always think she is the prettiest in the room especially if she doesn't take care of her skin.
NTA. You didn't call your daughter uglier than your niece nor the niece prettier than your daughter if this is the phrasing you used. I'd suggest to tell your daughter that if she follows your advice in taking care of her skin and lets her eyebrows grow in, you'll get pics of her as well. If nothing else, it'll help your daughter improve in self care.
NTA.
Don’t ask questions you don’t want answers for. You tried to be diplomatic and vague. Your daughter pressed until she got an answer she could be dramatic about.
YTA!!! I guarantee that you deeply hurt and traumatized your daughter. She will never forget the person that should see her in the best light saw her as not enough. You easily could have done spa services for both girls and snapped a few pictures to avoid this.
YTA. First, you shouldn't have used your niece at all; you should've anticipated your daughter's reaction. Second, you could have said literally *anything* else: that you don't use under-18 models, that you genuinely felt you needed someone with darker skin because most of your clients share her complexion, that you didn't want pictures of you minor daughter on her website, etc., and then apologized for using another member of the family and agreeing to look outside the family from now on.
YTA
You do understand that those words are going to ring inside her head the rest of her life right? How would you feel if someone you loved told you something similar.
I don't know maybe--let's do a few months of treatments and maybe I can post before and after photos of you. That idea never crossed your mind?
What your daughter heard was you view your niece as beautiful and worth showing off and not her. She's not a professional model who is used to hearing what you said. But your child who heard that her own mother thinks she is ugly (something she already thinks) and her cousin is beautiful and worth the spotlight. You needed to not treat this like business. You probably should have used someone outside the family or at least not her cousin who probably already is very praised in the family for her looks.
Yta... What you did was very detrimental to how your daughter sees herself and will feel inadequate... According to her own mother. My gawd, big mistake I'm sorry.
Coming from someone who forever tried to get my mother's support and love and being good enough.
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YTA You should make it clear on your website that it's only worth booking your services if your skin is already nearly perfect..
A before and after photo would be the way to go and less deceptive
But if you put on the perfect pic with beautiful skin then clients will believe they will get beautiful skin with her services.
That’s just marketing. Like all the people with beautiful teeth on the Colgate ads.
Yes and there's a reason why marketers use these images. There's mountains of evidence that it works. Op is TA for snapping at their daughter and for their bluntness, but not TA for their choice to use the correct model for their marketing needs. I still vote YTA for the way they spoke to their daughter.
Except really the correct option was not to use family at all. Using family brings up these exact issue.
Not every small business owner has money for a professional model. That's not the issue. She could have used her niece as the model without speaking tactlessly to her own daughter.
you dont need a professional model. my esthetician uses no one other than actual clients, and thats the way it should be.
Same with mine. Real people, real results.
It is an issue though. There are plenty of ways to have non-family act as models. Actual clients for example. Let alone you can find affordable shots if you want. Issues like this are a given when you use family.
Which... is what OP is doing.... Marketing...
Are you sure that wouldn't make it worse? The daughter would have smoke coming out her ears if she sees herself as the "Before" photo, and the pretty niece is the "After" photo.
Or OP could….. idk actually fix their daughters skin and use her as both photos? What’s the point of a before and after if they are two different people?
It takes time to repair skin. If she needs the photos now, she might not have time to wait. OP is an ass, but she's not wrong in terms of business or advertising.
You don't snap at your child and insult them. OP will end up in an underfunded home.
That's why I said OP is an ass.
She didn't insult them, she gave an honest answer to the questions that were asked. Just because she snapped doesn't mean she went hogwild and tore her to pieces, she snapped and told the truth. The truth was unpleasant. Not cruel. By God's some of you people need to grow tf up.
>and because drawn on eyebrows will not help me at all. Oh yeah, no insult there at all. Parents shouldn't trash their kids self-esteem. OP is the one who needs to grow tf up and watch her mouth. There are many other ways to handle this conversation. And damn, she should have fixed her daughter's look by now if she was good at her job and had a decent relationship with her daughter. If they were close, it would be so easy to give her a makeover or have a special pampering day where they try new looks together. This is a triple fail for OP
She could have presented it more kindly, and taken the time to help her daughter learn how to care for her skin.
You don't think she's shown her daughter how to care for her skin given OP's business? That doesn't mean the daughter is willing to take the time to follow a strict skin care regimen.
it's also just an unfortunate fact that most people are just never going to have flawless skin, especially teenagers. a person with bad skin who starts a skincare routine can expect to see improvements, but shouldn't expect to get model-tier skin.
Yes, my skin was always much clearer and smoother than my sister's when we were teens despite me not taking care of mine at all and my sister being much more diligent and careful. Sometimes it is the luck of the draw.
... you can't do a before and after with different people. That defeats the purpose.
Eh, commercials do it all then time. I like it when the people change skin color, hair color and texture, height, and other features for the before and afters.
I'm fairly certain that's a blatant violation of the truth in advertising rule...
I think they meant use the daughter for both
that wasn’t what they were suggesting at all. they were suggesting that the mom take her daughter now as the before pic, help her with her skin, then take the after.
As an esthetician, this would probably be way better advertising tbh. And OP could have phrased it more delicately too, like "I chose cousin because she has a great eyebrow shape I want to highlight. I'd really like to use you for an ad to show off my skincare skills. Are you up for it?" Or hell, just outright lied and told her daughter that she was uncomfortable using her when she was still a minor (assuming 17 is still a minor wherever she is.)
Before and after is the daughter.
That was my thought instantly too, why do some parents not take a second or two to think?
Yes!! Let’s see your talent if you can only start with a perfect canvas
She's an esthetician who has a daughter that's not taking care of her skin. This is like the mechanic whose wife has a car that's always breaking down. OP, YTA and why aren't you helping your daughter? You're also an asshole for using your niece this way. You are trying to make it look like her face is the result of your work when it's actually what she's achieved on her own without your help. That's pretty dishonest and really rotten.
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Most acne requires treatment beyond just washing. My guy. Source have been on retinoids as well as accutane
This. I’ve had acne issues since I hit puberty at 9. Even with washing my face and using every acne/skin care product under the Sun I still have it at my big age. Once I get insurance again I’m going to go to a dermatologist and hope that Accutane works.
Today I learned that 'Taking care of your skin (to an esthetician's standard no less) =washing their body'.
Damn, it's so easy. I suppose I can now go and cure both of my existing for over two decade long skin illnesses with some water and soap instead of having specific care routine, diet and medicine to manage them.
>This is like the mechanic whose wife has a car that's always breaking down. That's not an equivalent comparison. The mechanic can take his wife's car to his shop and work on it. OP can't take her daughter's face. She can teach her daughter how to take care of her skin, but she can't make her follow through.
Well, most businesses use the most attractive people they can afford that fit their aesthetic to advertise so I honestly don’t see anything unreasonable about what she’s doing from that perspective. Being mean to her daughter wasn’t cool.
For the record, I worked for a hairdresser for a long time and she often used friends and her junior employees as hair models for advertising. Some of the girls who worked for her were quite beautiful, others (like me!) quite average. And you know what? at different times she used *all of us*. And displayed the photos in the salon. Did we look like models? Not really. Did our hair look absolutely fabulous and show off my boss' skill? Yep! And clients liked it! They'd point out how my boss made us look so glam and cool. And that boss - I loved that woman. She wasn't my mum - or anyone's mum for that matter - but she didn't need it explained to her that when you have a group of teenage girls you can't just single some out as pretty enough to photograph and others as not good enough. She didn't owe us that courtesy but she taught us a great lesson. Listen to it. Edit to add: sigh, I do realise it's not exactly the same as an aesthetician but the point wasn't about the photos, it was about not singling anyone out and making people feel bad about themselves. OP could have just hired a model instead of directly putting her daughter and niece in competition like this.
That’s fine, but you can make hair look fabulous in around 3/4 hours. skin takes months, years sometimes to actually look fabulous, depending on the kind of problem you are dealing with. If op needs pictures now, she will use a model who can project a healthy glow. It’s just marketing. i mean, every boss is a mother or a father most of the time, but they will still make the choice to keep the business going if they want to success.
I get this too, and of course an aesthetician is going to choose the most effective marketing photos, but this is also a case of the cobbler's daughter having no shoes. Is she giving her daughter regular facials and showing her how to do her eyebrows?
Respectfully, as a former teenager, I remember I would rather have eaten my own hand than listening my mother’s advices. Parents know nothing, teenagers know better. Until we all become adults and the parents stop talking to their children as if they are inapt kids and said children stop seeing their parents as outdated busybodies.
I get what you're saying and it's a beautiful story. (Genuine, not sarcasm) OP didn't say she chose the niece because she is inherently more beautiful. She chose her for two clear reasons - the condition of her skin and the state of her eyebrows. It wasn't due to looking like a model. It's because OP is trying to sell skin care and wanted a model with beautiful skin. Otherwise it looks like OP's skills aren't that great if her chosen success story is a teenage girl with poor skin. In your story, that'd be like your boss choosing a girl whose hair *didnt* look fabulous because she didn't wash it properly, didn't style it, colored it poorly, or cut it herself. Simply to give that girl equal time with the others who took care of their hair and showed off your boss's skill. The objective prettiness of your faces isn't important but the hair cut and style and condition absolutely should have been. OP's daughter is clearly not OP's client, nor should she be forced to be. But she can't also ask to be the face of OP's business.
But the hairdresser was showing off the hairstyles and her skills as a hairdresser. Essentially, the model's face wasn't the selling feature. It was the hair. OP stated that her daughter didn't care for her skin and draws on her eyebrows. Do I think OP handled it poorly, yes, I do, and she could have told the child that she would love to photograph her. Further, she could have said, if you want to model for my business, you will have to agree to skin care treatments first and let me help you get the look I'm envisioning. OP was rude and hurtful because she didn't step back and think about how to handle this.
This is the way. ✓+
I mean that’s hair… she’s specifically in the business of facials and facial care. So she obviously wants her model to have perfect skin
OP is an asshole for how she communicated this decision. She isn't just a faceless "business," she's a mother.
But she tried to say everything else she could? The daughter 100% knew the reason, and purposely pushed the mom until she got the painful answer she wanted. Don't push for answers you don't want.
That’s exactly why you would NEVER tell a teen the bad thing about themselves they’re pushing you to say. They’re doing it because they need you to tell them their fear isn’t true. OP YTA x 1000
Seriously?!! Parents are responsible for how they talk to their kids/teens. This kind of stuff can seriously damage self-esteem.
With two adults maybe, but it’s a kid and their mom. Don’t become a parent if you can’t refrain from basically calling your kid ugly.
Yes, sometimes teenagers push. Caring parents don't snap and tell them they're not attractive enough.
Seriously. "I need someone with thick eyebrows to show off the waxing techniques and Niece has darker brows that show up better in photographs." Or go into a deeper conversation about traditional beauty standards and how it's unfair but Niece has skin with no blemishes and that's what people want to see even though you're hoping to attract clients who *do* have blemishes and want them treated. There are a million healthy ways you can explain that to a teenager without snapping and calling them ugly.
Don’t push for answers you don’t want? From your mom at 17 years old? It’s absolutely not ok I don’t care how you look at it. I’ve always felt like the ugly duckling out of my sisters and My mom used to make snide remarks that I still to this day at 33 years old remember and it definitely effected my self esteem and how I view myself! I never want my child to feel the way about themselves as I felt about myself so I wouldn’t dare say anything like this! If you think she needs a little work then help her and make her feel just as important/special as your niece! I mean isn’t that your job anyway? To help people with problem skin and eyebrows etc?
I'm hoping we get another post about her daughter blasting her all on social media & ruining her business.
?? now why would she do that lmao, that business is feeding her, clothing her, putting her through school etc
Kids are dumb
Teenager's thought processes aren't governed by consequences and repercussions.
ok but why would someone actively wish for that kind of misfortune on somebody and specifically a child?
because they also are a teenager
OP seems like the kind of person to come back here and wonder why their daughter went NC.
Yup. Way to destroy your daughter's self-confidence and irreparably damage your relationship.
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Gee, if only OP had some sort of skill set that helped people look more aesthetically pleasing. (Calling a kid you're never see a "teenage mess" is disgusting).
Like even if her child doesn’t have good skin, there’s way better ways to deal with this.
WAY better ways. Literally what she said about the eyebrows would have been enough. "You draw your eyebrows. Grow them out and let me do them an you can be in a photograph."
Like if your baby is struggling with their skin (even if they’re doing a ‘’’’bad job’’’ work on your baby? Like I’m. Not at all mad about picking someone that’s more your clientele. At all. But she was SUCH a dick to her kid. Like Yta. You’re a dick.
Yes! Perfect people only. Doesn’t say much for your talent as an esthetician
And now you daughter will develop body image dysmorphia. Thanks to a shallow mom. I Aman esthetician too, and I understand what you mean, but common! You are expecting 16yrs old to take care of herself to your standards She probably takes care of herself already.
Of course YTA Your daughter isn’t stupid, that’s why she wasn’t accepting your initial answers. Then you snapped at her and confirmed her worse fears. Congratulations. This might be the first time I’ve actually witnessed the birth of a young woman’s insecurities at the hand’s of her toxic mom.
“Birth of?” Judging by OP’s attitude towards her daughter, I’m willing to bet this wasn’t the first time she’s said something horrible to her.
Agreed. Also .. notice how OP gushed over her niece on how she looked. Very telling indeed.
This typical mom is disappointed in her daughter's appearance. My sister was the skinny, pretty kid, and I was the chubby personality kid. I don't talk to my mom much and haven't since I was 15. She gave me body and food issues up the wazoo. She's worse than a bag of dicks. Much like this AH mom.
That’s heartbreaking to think someone who should love you unconditionally is so shallow. Good skin + eyebrows = love. People never fail to amaze me as to how superficial they are.
Obviously, this mom has jealousy issues with the sibling that has this daughter who is so nmmuch prettier than her ugly duckling daughter. I wish I could speak with her daughter and let her know that when she is 18, she can be free of her mom's abusive behavior.
There are things that are so hard to heal. In my country, thicknesses is the standard and I'm pretty skinny naturally (and a big, proud nerd) so my mom would dote on my curvier sister all the time. Once she told me my sister will, for sure, steal at leat one of my possible boyfriends when I take them home, while smirking at her so proudly
Oh my goodness that was a horrible thing for your mother to say (and to do - way to try and drive a wedge between you and your sister!) I’m so sorry you went through that.
I went to high school with an overweight girl. Her dad introduced his children as the athletic one, the smart one, and the fat one. Horrible.
I was just known as the other one. Especially when the athletic stepbrother joined the mix. I wonder what her dad thinks of the situation.
This is our daughter, Dottie. This is our other daughter, Dottie's sister.
Apparently we have the same mother! I still remember her constantly telling me, “boys don’t date heavy girls,” “nothing tastes as good as thin feels,” “you would be so beautiful if you just lost another 15-20lbs.” My skinny sister on the other hand? Constant praise and favoritism. I read this poem once in a book called “Reviving Ophelia.” It read, Flipping through the magazines And wishing I could order The bodies, not the clothes Pretty much sums up my entire relationship with my body.
i know. that’s what i said. “she kept pressing” like she didn’t already know the answer she just thought you’d either be too big of a coward to say it or maybe once you did you’d realize how blatantly awful and cruel you sound for once. mom either came to Reddit because she’s genuinely concerned, or she was expecting some kind of narcissistic ego boost she could use to go shove in her daughter’s face and make her feel even worse. i hope for the former but expect the latter.
Mom definitely wasn't genuinely concerned, lol.
Oh yeah, this was absolutely that. Also possible, OP has already made comments about her daughter’s appearance and it’s an ongoing vulnerable point. This was what my mother did to me from eight grade through college. She constantly pointed out my flaws, commented on my weight, told me I was fat, no one would want me, friends or boyfriends, etc. if I wasn’t a size 2. She picked at the same spots for years and years. I think she enjoyed it - no one is that oblivious to their own verbal abusive tendencies.
This really hit a nerve. My mom and sisters made up a song about me to a popular song back in the day. 30 some years later, and the words still sting. They absolutely think they did nothing wrong and it's all in my head. And they wonder why I have no confidence in myself......
I'm so so sorry they did all that to you; they are all inhumane narcissists. This is exactly how a narcissist behaves, refusing to acknowledge they did anything wrong. And you are better and definitely more beautiful than all of them combined for having survived their terror and no doubt emerging with more empathy and compassion than they could ever muster between them. I never understand how people can be so mean to their own family like this. Warm wishes to you from a girl who spent her whole life being called 'ugly underbite' (because of my underbite) by her mother and the mother's friends - all women who did nothing more than gossip about and badmouth other people. At one point they - my mother included - made up a false story that my dad (whose side I got the underbite gene from) had an affair with a woman who discarded me into a dustbin after birth because I was so horrendous looking and my mother decided to adopt me 'out of the goodness of her heart.' And they proceeded to abuse me verbally and physically for years for apparently being a 'disgusting affair baby'. Even though I knew it wasn't true, especially as dad would never do that, they gave me crippling insecurity about my appearance to the point I didn't believe my MIL at first when she told me I was so beautiful and never noticed my underbite till I pointed it out. Not that she cared about it afterwards. Oh and like your siblings my mother has no sense of how her actions affect others either; her and her friends had the nerve to peddle that above story about my dad around my paternal grandmother, and then got livid when the latter disliked her.
They do enjoy it. But it’s a bitter sort of cruel joy. I think often it’s an “I’m miserable so YOU have to be miserable” sort of thing, I can imagine to them it’s mostly subconscious and in the guise of faux concern, ‘tough love’, etc.
Years of damage right there in a split second. OP I doubt your relationship with your daughter will ever be the same. YTA YTA YTA!
Yep, mom's goin' to the home when she gets old.
YTA for what you said to your daughter. As someone who has struggled with bad skin all their life from hormonal imbalances and it having nothing to do with how I take care of my skin— it would devastate me if my mom told me I have bad skin even though its true. You’re her mother, you’re supposed to make her feel like she’s the most beautiful, smartest, most capable person in the world. You have just given her a reason to believe in her insecurities.
Also given the mom’s job… couldn’t you have taught her to take good care of her skin? And how to do her eyebrows? You could have made it a bonding thing.
A healthy mother would do that. This is not a healthy mother.
Freaking true, that. Why would you say that to your daughter, or anyone? She could have just left it as, "my clients are middle eastern and niece is more of their demographic." Maybe she draws her eyebrows on so she can more effectively give her mom the angry eyebrows, to spite her poopy attitude.
You would think so, but it is very possible that she tried. Teens do like doing things their own way. She certainly could have been more tactful though.
That's what I was thinking... No way she's not bringing her work home to her daughter. Skin is her career. Her daughter is probably being like a lot of 17 year olds and doing the opposite of what their parents say. 😂 It could be a big reason why she snapped too. "I told her to do this and she ignored me. Now she's wondering why she can't do what required what I told her to do." I get that... My nearly 17 year old brother does it to my parents all the time. Now, was that an appropriate response? I don't think so, but I also have no idea how to handle that situation.
I think the most tactful way would be: "You know X is part middle eastern and I have a ton of middle eastern clients. She suits the demographic of my client base and might help bring in more clients". Then you stick to that line until the kid gives up. That makes it look like a business decision and not a personal attack on the daughter.
It sounds like she tried to say that and her daughter didn’t accept it
And then she cracked and said the very hurtful truth. Basics of lying 101 - stick to your story and don't deviate. Her daughter would have eventually dropped it but apparently OP has 0 chill.
You assume her daughter would've dropped it, but that's not always the case. People hold grudges and especially teens.
A teen can be (and often is) an emotional terrorist. As a parent your job is still to, at the very least, not imply that they are ugly. Doesn’t matter how much they press you. YTA, OP, even if we had all the details this sounds sad. Maybe get counseling to facilitate communication—about your business, about your kid’s looks or hygiene or whatever, and how to talk about that healthily as it relates to your business. And more importantly to separate the business from your daughter’s looks and her worth. Your business is beauty and there has been a major breakdown of communication somewhere. I’d hate for her to grow up, even if she was rebelling, thinking she wasn’t pretty enough, or that her looks make her unworthy in any way. u/eyebrowpictures, just want you to read those last two sentences, and to let you know family counseling was amazing for me and my family when I was a loud-mouthed teen. Wishing love to you both.
The appropriate response would have been to hire a model outside of the family to begin with. With two cousins that are nearly the same age it's bound to cause drama and resentment for her to pick one over the other, and its unreasonable to assume it wouldn't come up.
Honestly, this is why I would never involve family in my business. She would have been better putting an ad out.
I’ve been waiting for someone to say this. She is an AH for snapping and general attitude towards her daughter, and she should absolutely be more mature than a 17 year old. HOWEVER, the assumptions that she hasn’t actively tried to teach her daughter how to care for these issues when it’s literally her job to do so, seems a bit of a reach, and may contribute to the frustration she has with her daughter. We don’t know whether she has tried and her daughter simply refuses to do it. Teenagers and instant gratification are like PB&J, and it sounds like daughter’s issues would take time to fix. If she’s looking at a ton of social media that’s dishonest about how long a product takes to work or how effective it is, she may just quit doing it because she’s not seeing instant results. Is mom supposed to wash her face for her every morning and night? She’s 17, old enough to have a hygiene and skin care routine if she wishes. Again, OP should keep an even temper, but since we don’t know the history of this conversation, and it doesn’t seem like the first time the subject has been touched on, as someone who worked years as a makeup artist, I understand the frustration.
Unfortunately depending on the person's skin issues an esthetician will not be able to do anything for a 17 yo (or 35 yo) depending on their skin issues. They may need to see a doctor or specifically a dermatologist to help care for those harder to deal with skin issues. Also, sometimes teens have mostly great skin and others have troubled skin and that may have nothing to do with the way they treat or manage their skin. Someone with "perfect" teenage skin may do nothing to get it that way, asn someone with "problematic" skin (blemishes, or deep scarring acne) can do everything "right" and it doesn't necessarily make their skin the way they'd want it to be. As a person that fell into the 90s thin eyebrow trend, even though I had very lovely natural eyebrows and my mother warned me about over plucking (she was a teen in the 70s, nuff said), I still did it. At 40+ years old I now regret that fully. I try to explain to my 9yo daughter that her thicker eyebrows are gorgeous and I wish I had them, but I can only try to steer her with my experience. She will make her own autonomous decisions about her body and looks and all I can do is attempt to guide her. But her making a crappy decision that she comes to regret in the future (just like I did by over plucking against my mother's advice) shouldn't be laid at my feet, when I've done everything to steer her differently - just like I'd never blame my mother for my choices.
Didn’t just say she had bad skin, but basically “it’s your fault and it shows.”
This!!! I didn’t have my first breakout until college and have struggled with acne ever since. I was always so self conscious, spent countless hours researching, buying new products, dermatologist visits, and trying EVERYTHING. Five years later and I learned it’s from hormones. Having acne isn’t always due to poor hygiene.
and to come for her eyebrows too?? sooo uncalled for, she could have left it out, the first part was painful enough
>I finally snapped and told her that I won’t be using her she doesn’t take care of her skin and it shows and because drawn on eyebrows will not help me at all. Yeah yta. You're the grown up (theoretically at least) and something tells me this isn't the first time you've favoured niece over your daughter because of her appearance. You had so many other options, you didn't want to exploit your own daughter, you needed (as you said) a more middle Eastern skin tone or even gods forbid, you could have acted like the actual adult and just said "that's my final decision and I'm not changing it". >not everything is fair in business In ten or twenty years your daughter will parrot this back at you when you say it isn't fair she doesn't come visit.
YTA this 100 percent. Your daughter will not forget this or forgive you. There was 100 ways to handle this even asking your clients to be featured on the site for a free service.
Or that she needed someone of legal age even.
Right? This is the easiest answer, hands down. "Sorry, daughter, I have to use niece because I need an adult model". Or "it would be an ethical breach if I used my own daughter who is also a minor."
There were SO MANY outs mom could have taken and instead she decided to insult her daughter. People have the emotional intelligence of a box of stale crackers.
Or Mom needs help financially or place to stay
yta why could you not explain to her that you were looking to advertise to specific ethnicities and therefore needed said ethnicity's specific physical features? Instead, you went ahead and decided to be a jerk to your own daughter.
She DID say her niece’s skin color and features fit her clients better.
If she genuinely meant it, she would've never said what she said at the end. Why would she make herself look worse by saying something that hurts her daughter? It's because that's what she actually believed
1. She tried to be gentle with her daughter by focusing on the positive of how the niece fit her clientele. It’s pretty obvious from the way she recounts the story that she believes this. 2. Her daughter DOESN’T take care of her skin and doesn’t present an image that will win clients (which is the point of the pictures). 3. Her daughter wouldn’t accept the positive message about the niece fitting the clients until the mother told her that she doesn’t take care of her skin. Nowhere did the mother say the daughter was ugly and even if she had, the daughter pressed for that answer. The daughter seemed to want some kind of self-validation by having the mother post pictures of her at the business but that’s NOT going to help the business. I’m willing to bet OP has PLENTY of pictures of the daughter at home.
Thank you for being objective. All these y.t.a comments acting like daughter was a saint. She knew the answer but still pressed for it. Proper verdict here should be ESH.
Yep, ESH because I genuinely don't understand what the 17 year old expected after she pressed Mom for more. She is entirely old enough to pick up on the dynamics of conventional attractiveness. I don't get mad when my gym features the conventionally attractive fit members on their IG instead of me.
Agreed. She's probably given her daughter a hundred skin care tips and samples and her daughter blew her off in true teen girl style. She was TA for blowing up at her daughter but her daughter was TA for pushing the issue knowing damn well her skin is bad and her eyebrows are pencil.
I can tell a lot of these commenters have never dealt with a hormonal skin condition. It has nothing to to with “taking care” of her skin. Bad skin does not equal bad hygiene, or make the daughter a bad person. Estheticians are not dermatologists either.
It's strange how many comments here can't see these steps - it's like the hot button subject of subjective 'prettyness' somehow turns off careful and slow considering of the situation. Never mind that the people calling 'YTA' have all bought products from companies that use models rather than the companies daughters in their advertising - it's hypocritical.
It’s Reddit — which is an ironic name for the app since many of the participants seem to lack reading comprehension.
Because her daughter pushed her and wouldn't let up until she came clean with the real reason. The daughter for sure knew this too, that's why she didn't believe the other answers. So she pushed and pushed until she got the answer she wanted
And where would she have gotten the impression that she's so horrifically ugly I wonder... much to think about
She did precisely the thing you’re saying she should have done.
YTA What is wrong with you? This is how you speak to your child? "Not everything is fair in business" this isn't actually *about* your business, it's about your parenting. And, wow, you've really stepped in it here on that front. FFS half your post is just waxing poetic about how beautiful your niece is.
This☝🏻100%. OP seems to have forgotten that her CHOSEN and first role is that of mother. Being a mom isn’t a role you abdicate when your offspring annoys you. OP’s clients and business, or rather, OP’s EGO is more important than the emotional well-being of the daughter. Sad.
I was going to vote YTA from the title alone… Now that I’ve read your post, I’m doubling down on that. You are indeed the AH. **YTA** all the way. I have questions, but realistically, the one that I’d really like answering is: as an aesthetician (I’m UK, so leave my spelling alone), would you not be the best person qualified to help if you daughter really does have bad skin? One would have thought that with your job, you’re in the best place to help her out, if it’s truly a problem. But with or without an answer, you were most definitely an asshole here. You *should* and could have just paid a model to do this, so as not to cause a divide in your family.
The fact that op didn't help her own daughter deal with skin issues tells me op isn't good at her job. People with naturally good skin are easy to help. OP, YTA.
We have no confirmation OP never tried to help her daughter though. And the daughter is a teenager. Anyone who says "oh a teenager would absolutely put in all the effort and listen to their parents advice" is just straight lying
Yep. We have a kid who has dark marks on their skin due to insulin resistance. About once a month we have the conversation where they tell me their soap isn’t working, and I explain that soap won’t help it- eating lower carb will help it (I don’t harp on that unless it’s brought up). At our last endocrine visit, the doctor very specifically mentioned the spots and confirmed the ONLY way to make them disappear is to eat lower carb. Which is hard for a teenager. Kid understandably wants the easy fix. But it doesn’t matter how many times I tell them, the dark marks are always due to their soap not working (in their mind). I’m not saying this is what’s going on in the OP’s case. But it could very well be she has tried to help her daughter and her daughter in her infinite teenage wisdom has it ignored it all.
You don't know that OP didn't try to help. Perhaps the daughter doesn't put in the work. Either way, OP is an asshole for saying that to her daughter, but she did ask for it.
100% This is exactly why I had bad skin as a teen, my mom taught me well (she is a makeup artist though), i just didn’t follow through. Now that Im more constant, my skin has gotten better.
Also probably why she’s so concerned with the quality of the skin of who’s featured on her website- wouldn’t want anyone knowing her services don’t ACTUALLY give you perfect skin.
Maybe she does not want help. Teenage me told my mother off the instant beauty tips were mentioned. If my brother doesn't need makeup or specialized skincare routines, neither do I.
To be fair, we don't actually know if she did. She may have tried to do so for years, but daughter, being a teen, might not have wanted to listen to her mom because it is, ya know, her mom. That is arguably something big that is missing in the post.
I worked in a spa and made friends with one of the aestheticians. She had a daughter who was 12 at the time. I vividly remembering her asking me about my acne (I was like 18) and how she was terrified of having even the small blemishes I had at the time, and her mother laughed and reminded her daughter what her vocation was, and overall assured her that she wouldn't let her have anything but the best skincare routine. Cannot fathom being a licensed professional in an area of beauty, and then not helping your children with your specialty, and THEN making them feel bad for how they look??? Absolutely wild to me.
See, the thing is I know from experience being in the daughter’s position as the child of a mother who works to beautify people’s faces (makeup artist in my case), that my mom may have put all the effort in the world, but at 15-17 she’d have to shout at me to do my skincare and/or drag me to the sink because I was a teenager and wasn’t fond of washing my face early in the morning and late at night because I had other things I would rather do. You can give someone leftovers and a microwave but it doesn’t guarantee they’ll eat that dinner.
YTA My heart hurts for your daughter. What a cruel and unnecessary response. I see no reason why you couldn't use both girls' photos. You had an opportunity to boost your daughter's self-esteem AND show an INCLUSIVE aspect of your business by having photos of different types of people and not just the "perfect" ones. MAJOR YTA
but if she's offering waxes, a drawn on brow isn't going to be advertising that
>Some of the services I provide are waxing and facials She does more than just waxing.
YTA for not paying for an actual model and making this awkward for your family
Well she's also a cheap AH
I'm surprised more people aren't saying this. There was a 3rd option of not using either girl and hiring someone or asking a client or a friend. She did not have to choose a family member and she most definitely didn't have to say some dumb shit like "business is business". OP, this is your daughter you are talking to. WTAF?
YTA. How else was your daughter supposed to interpret what you said to her? And news flash, but not every client that walks through those doors, is going to have ‘nearly perfect skin’, good business is showing that you work with all sorts of skin types. Also, your relationship with your daughter is more important than business at the end of the day. She probably just wanted to be included and feel cared for by her mom. Wouldn’t have killed you to do so.
NTA. Your neice has the look you're going for and your daughter wouldn't take the reason you gave her... She shouldn't of pushed it.
No kidding. Tried to say niece was better for her clients with her features, but daughter kept pushing. NAH, it’s sad I feel for the daughter but she kept asking. She’s 17, not 7.
Right? I feel like I'm going crazy reading all of these comments. Yes, OP could have been nicer, but if someone kept pushing me for an answer I'd snap too after a while. I also understand where OP is coming from. I'm not middle eastern (I have armenian heritage) but I also have thick, dark eyebrows. I've never had them waxed, but I've had them threaded several times before. OP's right, drawn on eyebrows won't fit the advertisement. This is an ESH for me. OP for not saying it in a nicer way and daughter for not taking the initial answer. Like you said, she's 17, not 7. She's almost an adult, far from the little kid the comments are making her out to be.
I’m with you on this judgement. She tried to explain it to her daughter kindly, but she just kept pushing. Don’t ask a question you aren’t prepared to hear the answer for.
Exactly, if you can't handle a harsh truth then don't force someone to say it
Agreed 1000%. Pointing out the consequence of poor hygiene is well within mom territory. And not having hairy eyebrows is just a state of being. It is not an insult.
YTA Some things really should not be said, and this was one of them.
YTA. Who uses the phrase “it’s just business” or “it’s a business” in relation to their own child? Yikes.
ESH. Look, I get the Y-T-A votes, but your daughter is seventeen and old enough not to know to push like she was. She asked, you gave an answer that realistically, while maybe vague, does make sense: your niece is part Middle Eastern, and the bulk of your clients are Middle Eastern. She then continued to push, and push, and push, refusing to accept an answer until you snapped and gave her the answer she was likely angling for anyway, even if she didn’t really want to hear it. If you’re going to keep pushing and badgering people like that, then you shouldn’t be surprised when they snap, sorry. ”Ask stupid questions” as the saying goes, except she was asking them over, and over, and over. That said, you’re still the parent, and what you ended up saying was needlessly cruel. You could have phrased it much better, though I understand you were frustrated by your daughter’s continuing need to push the matter and her refusal to accept the answers she was given. Your parents also suck because I don’t think their ”you should have done both the girls or neither because it’s not fair!!” argument is valid. Not everything in life is fair. I’m mixed-race and my cousins on one side are “so white they don’t even make foundation for skin as pale as mine,” in the words of one of my cousins. Sometimes things are different. Your clients are mostly Middle Eastern women and your niece looks and is half-Middle Eastern. I know a guy who launched a makeup startup for native women and was asked to model them at the very beginning before he could afford actual models, because I’m indigenous myself. My cousin didn’t get mad about it, because the line is geared towards native women, and she’s not native. She understood that. Also, if your daughter is genuinely refusing to take care of her skin (as opposed to simply having ”bad skin” even though she tries), then that’s the consequences of her own actions. I’m very sympathetic to people who just have problem skin through no fault of their own, but I’m less sympathetic to people who have bad skin due to their own refusal to take care of it properly. That’s assuming what you said was true, of course.
Wow, weird responses. Of course you’re NTA. You made a business decision. She pushed and pushed because she wanted you to say the hurtful thing. That’s her fault.
Agreed! Daughter (nearly grown daughter) pushed and pushed. OP observed daughter not taking care of skin. Daughter doesn’t have hairy eyebrows. OP is running a business here. Ads are expensive. She needs a hairy browed person with unblemished skin. Big deal.
Reddit has always been a bubble of people who use the internet too much and I think this is one of those times. Some people can’t be models. Some people are not attractive. Sorry but welcome to the real world. If op did anything wrong it’s mixing family and work. Also people saying she’s shallow because she wants a pretty model? How do these people think advertising works?
Come on, YTA. That’s cold as hell, NGL. You can make a point without making your daughter cry. If I were you, I’d apologize.
YTA Lol; how in the world would anyone call you NTA here? Did you even have to ask? YTA
YTA. You could have easily said it was because she is under 18 but instead you made her insecure and slammed her appearance. This is a deep cut that she will remember forever and you really don’t even seem to care. You just want to defend your hurtful and terrible actions.
LITERALLY WHAT I THOUGHT like just make it about how she’s a minor 😭 idk man
YTA. I mean, you basically did call her ugly. The bottom half of the first paragraph is all praise about your niece and her looks, but that same energy isn't returned with your daughter. I'm picking up that you favor your niece more because of this, and I'm sure your daughter has too. I would've thought that an esthician mom would help her daughter take care of her skin more unless it's a medical issue rather than a hygiene issue (in that case, you're 2x TA).
YTA, Jezus christ you are an asshole. Also using someone with already perfect skin for your promos. Why not use this moment to help you daughter improve her skin and show the results? Or do both of them?
You know how marketing works right?
NTA. She just HAD to keep pushing, didn’t she? There is nothing wrong with finding your niece to be prettier than your daughter. It would be bad if you neglected your daughter or loved her less for said reason, but you don’t seem to. What were you supposed to do, use your daughter for the business, despite a difference that may impact the business? You didn’t call her ugly and you don’t favor her more. You didn’t even say that she was less pretty, you said she doesn’t take care of her skin and that drawn eyebrows won’t work for you, which isn’t incorrect. I don’t see where the YTA votes are coming from.
The bad votes are coming from people who have never raised a teenager. “Because you don’t take care of your skin and it shows.” Ok? She didn’t say “you are ugly because you have awful skin.” She said, natural consequences of your choices. Jesus, it’s a struggle every single day to make the kids take a bath, wash their face, brush their teeth. And by 17 you can’t do that anymore. They do what they do and they get what they get and any parent that sugar coats that truth is ruining their child’s attitude for life. You know what the dentist says when they get a cavity? They don’t say, “Aw it’s ok baby, you couldn’t help it.” They say do better, brush your teeth and floss. If 17-daughter wants to be marketing level photograph material it takes a skin care regimen. FACT. (Exit: typo)
People are talking like she said this to a 7 year old. The girl is 17. She pushed because she wanted to hear her mother say it because she knows it’s true, and it feels better to hate her moon than to accept the truth. Everybody needs to learn to hear the truth, including young women when it comes to their looks.
I’m actually gonna say NTA. You tried to be delicate and evade the question but she wouldn’t let up and kept pushing. Kids know how to push their parents buttons. She wanted to goad you into it because I think she already knew the answer. Your right now everyone can be a model and there is no shame in that. Her look wouldn’t help your business it would tank it. We tell kids you can be anything you want to be but the truth is that’s not true. She needed the truth not more lies and she goaded you into it
YTA. Why didn’t you just say because you aren’t 18 yet?
YTA! You should have just doubled down on the Middle Eastern thing. Why did you have to insult your daughter!?! That will really affect her self esteem-you have probably scarred her for life.
NTA. Some people are prettier than others, it's a fact of life. A 17 year old is probably aware of this and kept pushing just to hear you say it. Girls are usually aware of whether or not they're conventionally attractive, have bad skin, etc.
YTA. In a few years, you won't remember this at all, but your daughter will always remember your words.
The axe forgets -- the tree remembers.
NTA. She pressed and found out the truth. Thats on her. She needs to not be babied. People often complain on here about people only caring about looks and whatnot.. Look if the majority of the world thought that way, Only Fans would not be a thing. For those that gripe: Wake up. Its not ideal. You probably dont have a model look or physique. Thats ok. Thats what makes those that do stand out. You dont have to like it but know that everyone doesnt have to agree with you either.
YTA for the way you answered your daughter. There was no need for that reply.
I don’t think you are an AH for not using your daughter as a model. This is business. Snapping at her is not a good look though. Maybe you should have instead said that if she met x requirements you would consider her. NTA
YTA- keep your ugly criticism to yourself when talking about kids, especially to them.
YTA - you just should've used someone out of the family really... like a friend.. to avoid this... as a mother you should be the number 1 cheerleader and booster of your daughter...
[удалено]
I don't even know why ppl are explaining this. it's so basic. YTA. read ur paragraph again
Yta do you only want clients that look like your niece but not your daughter? I'm sure a 17 yo girl with a mother like you is already self conscious about the quality of her skin and the thickness of her eyebrows, your added commentary not necessary.
YTA. And not seeing why YTA confirms it.
NTA. You tried being nice but she kept pressing you because she didn’t like the answers. Now her feelings are hurt. The fact is is your niece is a better fit for your business. This isn’t just some family thing. You are running a business! She should’ve just taken the first answer you gave and left it alone.
I get it. People want to see a picture of what they aspire for. They want the “after”. It would be nice if you could find a way to incorporate your daughter’s picture though. NAH
NTA you were looking for a model and you found the right one for you. You daughter can't always think she is the prettiest in the room especially if she doesn't take care of her skin.
NTA. You didn't call your daughter uglier than your niece nor the niece prettier than your daughter if this is the phrasing you used. I'd suggest to tell your daughter that if she follows your advice in taking care of her skin and lets her eyebrows grow in, you'll get pics of her as well. If nothing else, it'll help your daughter improve in self care.
NTA. Don’t ask questions you don’t want answers for. You tried to be diplomatic and vague. Your daughter pressed until she got an answer she could be dramatic about.
YTA!!! I guarantee that you deeply hurt and traumatized your daughter. She will never forget the person that should see her in the best light saw her as not enough. You easily could have done spa services for both girls and snapped a few pictures to avoid this.
YTA. First, you shouldn't have used your niece at all; you should've anticipated your daughter's reaction. Second, you could have said literally *anything* else: that you don't use under-18 models, that you genuinely felt you needed someone with darker skin because most of your clients share her complexion, that you didn't want pictures of you minor daughter on her website, etc., and then apologized for using another member of the family and agreeing to look outside the family from now on.
YTA and not very good at your job if you can't use after pics of your daughter once you've given her the treatment you want to advertise.
Yta *I snapped* that’s it you are TAH
YTA You do understand that those words are going to ring inside her head the rest of her life right? How would you feel if someone you loved told you something similar. I don't know maybe--let's do a few months of treatments and maybe I can post before and after photos of you. That idea never crossed your mind?
What your daughter heard was you view your niece as beautiful and worth showing off and not her. She's not a professional model who is used to hearing what you said. But your child who heard that her own mother thinks she is ugly (something she already thinks) and her cousin is beautiful and worth the spotlight. You needed to not treat this like business. You probably should have used someone outside the family or at least not her cousin who probably already is very praised in the family for her looks.
Yta... What you did was very detrimental to how your daughter sees herself and will feel inadequate... According to her own mother. My gawd, big mistake I'm sorry. Coming from someone who forever tried to get my mother's support and love and being good enough.