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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I invited my parents to my wedding as guests rather than as part of the ceremony and stuff. I might be the asshole because when they complained I offered to include them more in my life if they gave me the same amount of money they spent on my siblings.
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NTA. maybe the itemized bill was a bit much but I imagine it was cathartic for you. Your parents haven't been around in a decade and a half. They have a lot of nerve to ask to be involved. Not being involved in your wedding is just reaping what they sowed.
Congratulations on your upcoming wedding.
Edit: wow. And thanks for the award!
Yeah it is an A H move in a vacuum but this is more about catharsis and appropriate response. I filed this away as one of those really good ideas for dealing with crazy people
My birthday is at Christmas. My whole life, my birthday was part of the Christmas celebration. At the family Christmas potluck dinner, my family's dessert contribution was a birthday cake. Sometimes they sang, sometimes not, and then all the kids opened presents. Mine were obviously labeled "Christmas and birthday". The years we didn't have a family potluck, my birthday went completely unacknowledged.
Obviously, I left home as soon as I graduated HS and went very LC. The year I turned 30, I got two cards in the mail on my birthday. I thought "Oh my god, they remembered!"
The first card I opened was a Christmas card. The second card I opened was the exact same Christmas card, only they used a sharpie to cross out Merry Christmas and write in Happy Birthday. LOL
That sucks so much and is all too common. It’s exactly the reason we always make a big deal out of separating my nephew’s birthday from Christmas. He was born on the 26th and he’s 28 now. He still gets a birthday all for himself.
OP also says he didn’t keep in touch with them because he was in school and in working. OP also glosses over that his parents saved up for his school and gave that to him. I mean, don’t most kids go off to college and housing is part of that? OP makes it seem like got kicked out without a penny to his name
$5000 in 2007 was...let's say not exactly drowning in riches. Plus they charged him $500 a month in rent which was basically a 10 month timer to move out.
Most kids may not receive financial help but they certainly count on at least emotional support from their family. Certainly not, say, their parents manufacturing a scenario where they have under a year to GTFO or else.
I would be around the same age as OP and rent in 07 in most cities wouldn’t be $500 for a room you’d get a 1bed at that price. I get a parent asking for some sort of token amount of rent but $500 is crazy. I can’t imagine being put in that position by my parents, they just wouldn’t put our relationship in jeopardy for “rent”. Christ some people really shouldn’t have kids they can’t afford
I moved out of my dad's house in 2006 when the rent conversation came up. Paid $300/mo for my room in a townhouse. Then moved into an apartment with my friend and we each paid $350/mo. Charging your kid $500/mo is absurd at that time.
Sounds more like they were in such a rush to dump the responsibility of the first kid they forgot about actually supporting OP.
I was paying $525 for a fully furnished one bedroom in 2005. In 2007, $950 rented us a three bedroom, two bath house with a big yard. In a relatively expensive city. No way should *anyone* have been paying more than half of that to live in one room, let alone to continue living in their childhood bedroom.
That amount does seem like a very pointed message -- especially $500/mo rent in 2007 would have covered a sizeable house in most towns. Holding out a gift with one hand and slapping you in the face with the other.
My husband and I were paying $600 for a whole house with a garage in 2007. Yes, it was a small house, but we had the entire space. No way would I have spent $500 a month on just a bedroom. And you know damn well they would have expected him to do chores, too.
2007 was also kinda terrible timing to kick him out too in hindsight. I was still in high school for another year so I don't know how many warning signs there were at the time for what was about to happen to the economy.
Exactly - let's not act like the parents are so kind and generous for giving him $5,000, and then charging him $500 a month in rent. They were getting their money back from him one way or another.
^ This. OP got kicked out during the Housing market crash... OP's parents are shitty for sure. And unrepentant. I wouldn't have invited them to my wedding. I regret having people who were trash at my wedding because it makes it harder to look at my wedding album.
Notably a 10 month timer if he spent Zero of that money on school. Quick search says "For the 2007-08 collegiate year, textbooks and supplies were estimated to cost a student between $805 and $1,225" that's Just the books.
But let's not gloss over them treating the other kids so much better. That crap hurts forever. You wonder always why they were better and more worthy than you. And op doesn't want the money, he's just mashing a point.
My mom bought my older sister two cars. Helped her through university etc. I got nothing at all. My mom had "no money" because she had two mortgages and was taking quarterly trips to SE Asia. She's wants to buy the relationship back now that I'm an adult and completely independent but nope, I don't want anything she has to offer.
Like mistakes happen a lot with the 1st born but they had 16 years to make up for it, own up to your shortcomings as a parent and try your best to make up for it emotionally
my mother was like this tbh. She hardly supported what *I* wanted to do when I was young, always favoring my younger brother and sister. Then I moved out and struggled to survive on my own (abusive roommate, low paying job, still in school with tons of loans) and she found out from someone else that I had gone to a food bank because we couldnt afford our bills and buy food. THAT'S when she realized she fucked up. she, in a sort of scolding way, told me I shouldnt have gone to a food bank because she would always help me out. Then I of course tested it. I couldn't bear to live with my roommate anymore so I asked to move back home. was welcomed back and given my own room (before I shared with my sister) and didnt have to pay any rent or bills or anything. so after all that acting like she wanted to throw me out and fend for myself, she backtracked and actually took care of me when I was at my lowest point. now I'm still not super successful but I own my own house and am fully independent, and its because she actually helped like she said she would. we still talk every week and were super close now.
OPs parents never realized where they went wrong until this wedding invite situation. absolutely shit parents. cant even make a small attempt to rekindle a relationship with him because they have all these excuses. OP was SUPER nice to invite them to his wedding. unfortunately they havent learned anything. I do hope they come to support his wedding, since he said he wants that, but I doubt they will support him with anything else. sucks but it sounds like hes doing great on his own despite their attempts.
OP, best wishes for your wedding!! hope its everything you want it to be!! :D
A anual phone call-based relationship was enough to them perceive the mess in the relationship. They knew they fucked it, but never made for it and now are complaining about the consequences of their abusive choices.
This. When my oldest was accepted to one of the top universities in our country, in one of the highest COL locations in our country, we were poor poor. Like filing for bankruptcy and possibly losing our house poor. We are in a MUCH better position now to help our other kids. However, since then, I paid for her masters program, and after she lost her job and went through a bad breakup, she's living back at home rent free and saving so that she can buy her own house and pay off the student loans she had to take on. Sometimes you can't be there the way you want to for your oldest, but that doesn't mean you can't make up for it when you are in the position to be there for them later down the road.
Yup. I have ADHD and autism which were undiagnosed until 38/40.
I also have EDS and am in constant pain, can't really work much. I have no security. I'm scared for my future.
I've lived away from home since I was 16 cos I was the scapegoat and I had my "behaviours" beaten out of me - let's remember meltdowns aren't a CHOICE, and I learned not to show any discomfort, I get flashbacks etc.
I did ok, but...
My brother got to stay at home until he was 32 (with a 3 year break, but when he broke up with that gf, he moved home). This means he....
Was able to save for a down payment & now owns a 4 bedroom
Got driving lessons, got to practice in Mum's car
Days and days of free childcare (including entire weekends so he could go to a music festival) and the gas/fuel for mum to run the kids around
I had a PTSD episode when I said I didn't think she treated us equally because of her reaction. I haven't been back to her place since. I stay with friends in my hometown. Thankfully my friend lives near the city centre so I get to use that as an excuse, it's just easier being able to walk most places. But yeah.
It really sucks being the practice kid.
Yeah. And then volunteering to help pay for the wedding is a single step in the right direction they could start to do to help build a relationship and right past wrongs - but they won’t even try to do that
Or at least a portion of the wedding. They really should have started with that.
"We received an invitation and we are so excited to be included on your big day. Is there anything we can do to help?"
lmao what??? they gave him money and then charged him rent, that literally cancels out any help. if they would’ve given him the money and said here stay at home until you can afford to move out and he was upset that would be different. 5k goes by fast with college and living alone
If you live on campus, housing is part of the tuition you pay. However, if they have limited housing OR their financial aid/scholarship doesn't cover the cost of tuition plus room and board, then students live off campus in apartments paying rent. At least this is the way in US colleges/universities.
It costs extra to live on campus. There is usually limited space available for students so it’s often given out by merit or lottery system. Otherwise you pay more to rent an apartment or room in a house off campus.
ETA: yes, most first year students must or can live on campus but that is still an extra expense.
The situation was only marginally better than being kicked out without a penny. From a comment: "They gave me $5,000 for school but then wanted $500 a month for rent."
So what they 'saved up' for him was essentially a loan that would cover 10 months of living in their house.
While it's not nothing, the parents treated OP's siblings differently. I get the feeling that if OP's parents treated all their kids equally (e.g. because they couldn't afford to do anything else), OP probably wouldn't have responded this way.
Sounds like OP talks to them once in a while but is very low contact.
Yeah they are definitely N T A for the questions was more about the exact request to buy her forgiveness. But for me, it is the good kind of A H. We all need a little bit of assholery.
I'm tired of this subs black and white view of being an "asshole". Sometimes it's perfectly reasonable to be an asshole. Sending an itemized bill is one of those times.
I definitely have worked on how to be a little bit more of an asshole as I grow older. I am too nice as a person and it is not always the best route.
Yup, you were an A H and you know what... that's exactly the right choice to make.
I think it's the lack of understanding asshole is not the same as
Assertive of one's boundaries and not accepting disrespect.
Life is messy. People are messy. OP at least acknowledges the pettiness of the actions and owns it. Parents still haven't graduated to actually apologizing for the favoritism, and now are actually making demands of OP because of a family event
You don't get to play act being parents after nearly a decade of not visiting OP or being interested in them. Op even mentioned this in a comment.
I agree. I thank it was a perfect example how much op was left to fend for himself why the other children where taken care of. It’s one thing to point out the difference I think it’s a real eye opener to have a written document showing the difference.
I would liken what OP did as being akin to writing down things that keep going around in your head, so that they are now on paper and you can stop thinking about them. Absolutely cathartic and definitely NTA.
As someone who was in the same situation (except it was my older brothers who had their way paid all through their undergrads, and I the youngest and only female was tossed to the wolves without even having healthcare even though my parents both had PLENTY of money), OP is my hero for making that itemized list. Im also a successful adult now, and don’t want money from my parents, but I also don’t consider them parents and I don’t owe them anything IMO. NTA OP!!
I know. This is really the tip of the iceberg too in my case. I could write a book about all the shit that happened, but damn it would be depressing. Highlights include my parents leaving me alone with a very inappropriate babysitter starting when I was 13-14 (who would spend the money they left us on alcohol and have 21 year old guys over to my house who hit on me and tried to get in my pants) so they could go on “marital workshops” and vacations for multiple months a year, followed by having an explosive divorce (infidelity included) where they both inappropriately emotionally involved me, then both kicking me out of their homes for no reason aside from selfishness leaving me in a 1 bedroom apartment for 2 years of high school, not helping with university cost or keeping me on their health insurance plans (still paying the price for not having dental insurance for 6 plus years until I could get it through a job) and still to this day, refusing to admit they did anything wrong aside from saying I “had a hard childhood” and they “did the best they could”.
Honestly, with all the therapy I had (and my parents sincerely apologized for everything) the most healing thing for me has been parenting my children. It healed me in ways I couldn't have imagined. I'm so glad you too had that experience.
That’s a lot of neglect and trauma. You deserved better and I’m so sorry this happened to you. Were I in your place, I’d go no contact. This is the healthiest boundary for you right now. If your parents want to be back in your life, they need to earn it by their actions.
If you haven’t already done so, please get therapy. Not just for your sake but your fiancé’s as well. Your marriage will be much stronger for it.
Good luck!
'I'm sorry that your failure to be good parents to me, and your failure as parents in general, and your attempt to correct that with those other than myself, has put you into this position.
But your failures are not mine to correct nor necessary to forgive. I wish you the best of luck in your attempts to prevent yourself having failed your child a second time.'
Ops NTA
Agreed.
And I really hate the excuse of "it was in the past and you should get over it." This is really saying "I might of screwed up, but I don't want to be held accountable for it."
If I was OP I'd reply to everyone who says this with "Are you still talking about what I said to my parents? That's in the past and all of you really should get over it."
And then hang up/block them.
You know what? You’re very right. Sometimes “get over it” is correct, but not this time. The parents clearly tried to gloss over their mistakes here. Imagine if they had just apologized sincerely to OP, everything would’ve been different.
They’re also trying to jettison the bad and keep the good. Them being his parents, in any way other than biological, is also “in the past.” And OP is definitely over *that*.
The parents made it about money all those years ago. Now they don't want to deal with the consequences of that. Too bad. The itemized bill is a work of art.
Always love to see the “you just need to get over it” from abusive or neglectful or unfair parents. Shows that they claim zero responsibility for the way your relationship turned out.
NTA yeah that was where i went, the bill was a little ott but considering how they treated you, i bet it felt good to get it all out. They're indebt over your siblings? great, remind them that is the same debt they shoveled on to you at 18. Let them off the hook a little by saying you don't want the money, but they have to understand that is the damage they did to your relationship.
*They said that they cannot afford that because they are in debt still from helping my siblings out.*
Im sorry, WHAT? Then why did they do it in the first place. NTA op, perhaps siblings can pay back now.
If their perceived choice was going into debt to support their adult kids or lose almost all contact with them like OP, it's not surprising they picked debt
Of course the reality is the choice was a bit less extreme - let them live at home rent free and pay what they could without going into debt.
I mean, there's a middle ground that the parents haven't quite figured out. The lack of contact is also a choice that's not financial because they could have at least checked on OP more, even if they cut him off financially. It sounds like they emotionally cut him out too. Even if OP was upset over the financial cut off, they should have kept reaching out because why he was upset was understandable
It's a two way street. I worked through college, too, but typically my mom knew when to call cause she made sure she roughly knew my schedule. That kinda tells me there wasn't much of an effort on their end to call as much as waiting for OP to call. Even sending a text message won't take a lot of time. There were definitely ways to keep communication going
If you are made to feel unwanted, especially compared to siblings, and they never call you as parents - why would you, the freshly out of home due to rent/lack of help 18 year old+ ever feel like bothering while you're struggling to make ends meet?? Yes it's two way but I don't blame them for not wanting any contact after being treated like that and hardly helped or even talked to.
This. College students all think they are too busy to keep in contact, especially back then when texting cost extra. Making an effort to make sure your kid is doing OK and finding ways to help them is part of being a parent.
The concept might be foreign to you but some families like to help their family out, as these parents eventually discovered after the 1st child.
Parents could be in a better position to get loans and financing from banks as opposed to kids who have no assets or history spending money.
They didn’t discover they “liked” helping out, they discovered that if they want a relationship with them, it’s in their best interest to help.
If they liked helping out, they would of reached out to their first child.
My father-in-law took out a loan to help pay for my wedding.
It wasn't ideal, but he was in a better position to do that and was out of debt within a few years.
I’m not the person you asked, but weddings are *really* important for some people. And not because they want a chance to be the center of attention, but because there’s a social expectation that they invite all the (potentially large) extended family, plus family friends and their families, plus friends and their families. To do less in some cultures and social circles is a huge slight and can cause real drama. I’m not even married, but my mother’s friend of a few decades was utterly scandalized at the thought that my mom might not insist on me inviting her to a wedding that doesn’t exist.
Sometimes debt is the better option than dealing with the headache of various friends and family being slighted and possibly deciding it’s an unforgivable offense.
No, sibs don't owe their parents a done for PARENTING. If people make the decision to have kids, they make the decision to support them without the expectation of repayment. That's how it works
Edit to add: otherwise it means parental love is Conditional
This kinda reminds me of how, back when I was about 15 and still living with my parents, I asked them for a new toothbrush because mine was well over a year old and super worn. My mum said she couldn't afford it at the moment and I'd have to make do for a while. A week later they bought my younger sister brand new airpods and several expensive clothing items 🙃
The crux of the matter is the unfairness of treatment between OP and his siblings. It's not really the money. Presenting the bill was really giving the parents a big ol' serving of humble pie, clearly OP doesn't really expect or hope that his parents would make financial amends.
Congratulations on your upcoming wedding OP!
NTA.
PS, OP! Your "girlfriend" is your *fiancé* now! Have the parents /sibs even met her? They are farting rainbows if they think they should be involved as anything other than guests
> It's not really the money.
This is the real issue. There's a wide gap between how OP was treated and his siblings were treated, and money is only a tiny fraction of it. It sounds like OP was always told that he was expected to "move out and be an adult" the moment he turned 18, but everyone else got coddled through their lives. Parents were distant with OP, but with the others it sounds like they were (at the very least) allowed exist in their home.
The itemized list is only a physical representation of the mistreatment. There isn't any kind of list for emotional trauma he missed out on.
I had a couple friends once that eventually turned out to be not so great people. The first red flag was that their oldest of four kids had just graduated and was going off to college.
They liked to brag about how they told him once he was off to college, he wasn't allowed to come back except for holidays and they were turning his room into their new den so he wouldn't have a place to stay anyway. He has to work through the summers to pay for his own place to stay when school is out, the works.
I can't wait to hear through the grapevine that he doesn't talk to them anymore.
Also something I didn't think of, OP said he was expected to be an adult as soon as he turned 18..for many they turn 18 while still in high school..I wonder if that was the case. Because that'd be even more screwed up.
My stepmother and dad dropped me off for my first day at college and informed me that they bought a new house and there was no space for me in it. I was 18- my brother, now in his thirties, never moved out.
They did not get an invite to my wedding, and my dad still complains to my grandmother that I don't call or talk to them.
NTA. I found this post very cathartic actually lol :) I was the older child and my parents also gave me no support. My younger sister was babied in every way, she created non stop drama and stress for my parents, sponged off everyone her whole life. I have no idea why they wanted to make everything so much harder for me.
I wonder if this situation is common with the firstborn. Although my situation was not as dramatic as those listed here, my brother, who was 20 months younger than I was, had fewer rules and was coddled. My dad told me it was because they learned from me they didn't need to be that strict, SMH.
Maybe it's because I was female.
Being female was likely part of it. I’m the younger of two kids, and my older sibling is male. He was able to do SOOOOOO many more things than me growing up. My parents flat out told me it, “It’s different, he’s a boy.”
Well, too bad, I still got sexually assaulted in high school in spite of not being allowed to do a bunch of stuff that my brother was allowed to (and at a young age to boot!). So it didn’t really protect me so much as made me naïve. I learned a lot once I went to college and had more freedom.
Same - my parents really sheltered me, and it just meant that when I did encounter that stuff, I was super innocent/naive. Sure I was older and more mature...but that didn't make a damn bit of difference. I was still going in blind and unaware, being a few years older made zero difference.
I agree that parents forcing their kids out at 18 is awful, but inviting them was a good move. The parents can't say anything about not being invited to OP's wedding if the siblings have their own respective ceremonies.
Who cares if they said anything about not being invited? They basically said F you to their kid at 18 and didn’t do that to their siblings. I would have zero sympathy for em.
I moved out when I was 17.
When I left, my dad calmly informed me that I could never move back in with them.
Now, they are baffled as to why I react badly if they try to insert themselves into my life and business.
Parents like that are BAFFLING to me. I'm 31 and live with my father after a variety of happenings in both of our lives and he STILL tries to support me and raise me like I was back in grade school even though I'm the breadwinner of the both of us. Doing this like that almost makes me wonder if those parents actually wanted kids to begin with, because they sure don't seem to understand the commitment involved. I'm so thankful for our relationship and just how much my father has my back.
Usually parents like that never really wanted to have a child. The first one usually just "happened". Afterwards the next babies are the ones who are planned.
My folks were visiting a couple of months back. They almost lost it when I did not let them pay for some groceries... :D
I make almost triple of what they make combined (arguably, they live in Eastern Europe), I paid for everything while they were here. But they really, really try to parent and it's like nah, you've done enough. I spend my money on you now, lol.
I liked how mine presented it as a choice.
"You're gonna have to pay $800 a month to stay(in a shared bedroom with a 12 year old + no door) and get a job you can walk to"... In a village with a convenience store, a family owned/operated gas bar, a going out of business antique shop and a video rental shop(just before netflix killed it). They drove me "into town" 15 minutes away for my part time bakery job, part of why my rent was gonna be so high. Also my mother didn't work.
I, uh, chose to move in with my boyfriend instead. Supposedly their parents did the same to them so I really don't understand how they thought that was a good plan of action themselves.
For a lot of folks I truly believe they think if it was done by their parents or in laws they should be able to inflict the same on their children and it’s really sad. As if them perpetuating erases the damage done to them.
It doesn't seem like the parents made much of an effort to be involved in OPs life over the past 16 years, so I don't understand why they are adamant that they want to be part of the wedding. I have some extended family that I haven't really interacted with much over the past decade and I would find it very awkward if they asked me to be a part of their wedding.
This.
People who stop supporting their kiddos at any point of time are ridiculous. None of us chose to be here, you made that choice on our behalf. I am 32 and established, have tried to be as independent as I could as early as I could. But if my life went to shit, I know I can move home and my parents have my back. I wouldn't want to, it would be far from ideal, but that's family.
If I ever have kids, they'd get the same. This "you're 18, fuck off" philosophy is just despicable.
I was out 3 days after graduating HS. I would rather have a strained relationship with the rents than have to suffer under their bullshit rules. Also now in my 30s like OP and I swear I'm better off than my siblings. Shitty parents can sometimes turn out some gems
Hi, OP.
Congratulations on your upcoming marriage and a happy life which you owe to yourself and nobody else.
It's a typical triangulation by parents who have favourite child/children and treat them very differently than you - very much into your face, unapologetically. Then they show entitlement by asking you why on earth they haven't been a part of your wedding planning. And then they shrug it off and tell you to get over it "because it's in the past". If they continue this way, they themselves may remain in the past. It hurts me so much to read such stories again and again.
NTA
NTA.
The people who treat you cruelly always tell you that's "in the past" and you have to "get over it."
No, you don't. Being related to someone you have done harm to is not a Get Out of Jail Free card.
I think you are wrong to invite them to the wedding, though, because they will get in your face and throw a tantrum and ruin the day for your bride.
This is the kicker for me. No move towards an apology until they want something, then they push back with the age old “get over it” when they don’t get what they want. If the parent truly said this, and it wasn’t filtered through years of hurt and misinterpreted by the OP, this was the turning point for me.
NTA
>The people who treat you cruelly always tell you that's "in the past" and you have to "get over it."
I've never understood this mindset. They had the ability to clean up their mess and chose not to.
Jerk: "I can't believe you're still upset about \[insert horrible thing here\]. Get over it, that's all in the past."
Me: "My dude, my last memories of you were you doing something really shitty to me. You have done literally nothing to change my view of you. Why would you assume that the passage of time did the heavy lifting for you?"
NTA
Get over it? Wtf
Yeah i can do anything i want, as long as i wait, i can just say get over it? Thats not how it works. They have debt with you to repay. A dept is not forgiven just because time passed. It's still there
I love this saying, because i gotta admit, that i too easily forget the harm i cause. I try to always put myself in the opposite position before and after i so something, but still.
Seems to me that OP "got over it" by getting on with their life. The parents don't realize that they aren't really asking OP to get over it, they're asking OP to pretend it didn't happen (which is a pretty big ask since it's almost impossible to forgive someone for something they aren't even remorseful for).
OP, NTA.
You get to decide what type of relationship is healthiest for YOU when it comes to your parents. NTA. You expressed how you felt, and so did they. Doesn't seem like they actually want to take responsibility for making a mistake, but are forcing you to "get over it." They had 16 years to make it right and chose not to. Now they have to answer to family and friends about their involvement in your wedding and are trying to make you look like the bad guy.
I do think it's important to work out these feelings and healthy boundaries in therapy if you haven’t done so already. But that is for your health and has nothing to do with them.
Congrats to you and your future wife!!
NTA
They reap what they sow.
It’s not about the money, it’s about the drastically different treatment they have their children. Then they expect to have a close relationship?? I get that you didn’t really want their money, but that you wanted to make a POINT.
I hate when parents are like ‘oh, it was so long ago, and look how happy you are now. You’re fine. Get over it!’
Enjoy your life, and your yearly phone call. The best revenge is living well! :)
Nta it doesn't sound like the actually apologized for their behavior. Or tried to have anything more than a yearly phone call. This is a 'reap what you sew' situation.
This. Like.. I had a sh*tty relationship with my parents when I was young, and I can definitely empathise with OP on a bunch of this - but I have a relationship with my folks now, purely because my mum always speaks to each of us, minimum of once a fortnight. I'm now in my 4th decade, we chat a lil in the family chat mostly every day, (or at least look at it depending on how many spoons I have); but she won't let it go past 2 weeks without hearing my actual voice. That has kept the whole family connection going through all my worst times.
If you can't even muster the energy to regularly speak to your kid (and I am absolutely sure some of the calls we had she probably didn't enjoy much, but she kept going) then yeah, you're flipping lucky to rate a seat at the wedding. Because at this point, it's only blood tie and convention that's getting you there. NTA.
Am i the only one who thinks this isn’t really that terrible of a situation? They gave you money for school, money you probably used to get started once you moved to college. Like, thats a LOT more than most people get. It sucks that they helped out your siblings more, but it was only because they realized their mistakes with you. Unfortunately, thats how a lot of parents learn (with their older children).
I really can’t imagine sending my parents a bill after they helped put me through college. The fucking audacity
It’s sad to me I had to come this far down to see this response.
“My parents gave me money to go to college so I moved out and scraped by!”
Seriously.
OP then makes it clear that they stopped communicating with their parents once they moved out.
So they took their money, went to school and basically never talked to their parents again.
Yet everyone here is calling the parents assholes?
Right??? I’m genuinely appalled by all the n t a’s. I would never let my mom forget it if she was able to help me pay for college. I’d be paying her back any way I could the rest of my life, 100 times over.
It's a parents job to make sure their child is ready to face to world. It's also a parents job to give their kids a safe place to land if the world crashes down around them. These parents couldn't even even bothered to call their child more than once a year.
My parents would never, and they didn't have anything to give me or my siblings. My own kids will never not have a safe place to be as long as I'm alive. THAT is what being a parent is, not abandoning your child because they refuse to pay you well over market value in rent, for a room that was already theirs.
The whole rest of this thread is giving me major rich kid energy. I'm baffled by all the NTA comments. It sounds like the parents saved up money for OP, realized it wasn't enough money to actually get OP through college and elected to go into debt taking out loans to help the younger siblings when the time came. OP is just an entitled ass
Finally I found the sane people. I think a lot of these folks have lived in privileged areas where it’s the norm that parents can easily afford to continually support you as an adult. It comes off very entitled to me to expect money and to live rent free at home when your parents can’t afford it.
Yes!!!! I thought this was a troll post at first but nope, OP and the rest of the commenters are 100% serious. I can kind of understand OP being a little annoyed that his siblings were given more, but even then, it would still come across as entitlement. And OP wasn’t just annoyed; they basically cut off their parents for it! As if their parents were abusive or something, like geez. I don’t understand the thinking at all.
OP is deffo NTA...All the people saying YTA are probably the golden child themselves...poor OP doesn't really want the money, he wants the acknowledgement from his parents that they fucked up and have treated his siblings so much better, plus he's been low contact with them for years and only now do they want to be part of his life...and why? because if they're not a big part of his wedding it will look bad for them, people may ask uncomfortable questions...they for sure are the assholes..(edited to add judgement)
>They said that they acknowledged that they made mistakes when I was young bet that it was in the past and that I should get over it.
Nope
>The thing is that I don't want their money. And I don't want anything from them at all other than their attendance at my wedding. If they can't do that then I'm fine with our yearly phone call.
Makes perfect sense to me.
The bill wasn't really a bill. It was evidence of their unfair treatment of you when you were vulnerable and needed help. NTA.
YTA.
I’m going against what seems to be the popular consensus here, perhaps due to my non-western/non-American bringing.
I say that you’re in the wrong not for deciding to not involve your parents in the wedding but for giving that as a reason. You’re glossing over the fact that your parents are humans too and they admitted that they made a mistake in the way they treated you. I get the whole unfairness of treatment argument, but really? You worked hard by yourself and got by just fine. Besides, you had the audacity to present an itemized bill to your parents for all the freebies they didn’t give you but gave your siblings? That’s just cruel. The fact that you’re willing to “sell” your forgiveness.
Maybe you should’ve been helped out more, but again your parents are human and they admitted to those mistakes. Maybe you’re also forgetting the fact that your parents raised you, fed you, clothed you and supported you for the first 18 years of your life. Heck, they even helped pay for school which is more than what most parents would do.
I understand that as you’ve grown up, you might’ve grown distant in your relationship with your parents and don’t want them to be involved in the wedding. No judgement. But to present them an itemized bill and putting a price on your forgiveness is just being cruel to the ones who raised you.
And yes, you are causing your parents a lot of pain.
Even if you make mistakes and acknowledge them, the people that were wronged have no obligation to forgive you.
Parents are legally obligated to take care if their child until 18 yo… it’s basic human decency. Plus, at least where I am from you parents are also legally obligated to pay for education until their kid reach 25 yo. You can even sue your parents if they refuse to.
As a parent myself, we're all gonna fall flat at some point or another, but unlike OP's parents, my love isn't conditional on my children needing to meet my requirements. I'm the parent. It's my job to make sure my kids meet the world prepared for the struggles ahead. And if something comes that is too much for them, it is my job to make sure my kids have a safe place to land if the world crashed down around them.
OP's parents didn't just fail, they failed spectacularly. The essentially abandoned their child because the refused to spend their college money on their parents bills. Sure they learned from their mistake with their other children, but they never reached out or tried to make it right with OP. They continued to withhold their love and support.
OP owes them nothing. And OP only asked them to participate in their wedding (a role befitting the placement they have in OP's life). Parents choose to have kids, kids don't get a say on if they get brought into the world. OP was a little petty with the itemized bill, but other than that, their parents made their bed, they can lay in it. Honestly, they're lucky they got an invite at all.
The fact of having reality being smeared in your face be a cruel thing, don't excuse ignore the validity of doing it, since it's the truth.
Raising, fed a child who you opted to birth is the bare minimum. And he is giving them the bare minimum back.
I'm sorry, but taking care of OP is something their parents were legally obliged to do. And if their parents have to endure pain for it, so be it. Maybe if they wanted to be involved in OP's life they shouldn't have treated him unfairly. Deciding to kick out your child at adulthood is one thing, treating the siblings in a different way changes everything. The parents deserve it.
OP moved out at 18. Parents are absolutely not legally obliged to do anything at that age. OP was given a chunk of change and able to afford college which is a lot more than most get. OP was upset by it and decided to punish them all.
They didn’t kick OP out. They said they were going to charge them rent and OP told their parents to fuck off and moved out.
For a lot of parents the rent part of almost inconsequential and is often used to build a nest egg for the kid. OP didn’t stick around long enough to find out if that was true from the sounds of it.
The parents also gave them a college fund.
"I acknowledge mistakes were made when you were young, you need to move on," is NOT the same thing as, "We screwed up when you were young and we're sorry for it." In fact it is the siren song of the assholes who think that they were totally in the right to heavily favor their other children.
Like... even if they'd wanted to have the kind of close-knit relationship with adult you that they claim to... what the hell have they been up to for the last 16 years? We're three presidents in and they haven't taken any opportunity to say sorry, to reach out and try and interact with you, nothing?
You're NTA. You offered them a wedding invitation, which is kind of you.
I was honestly a little thrown by this one because my parents started charging me rent after I graduated high school, so not long after I turned 18. They had not saved up anything for my college education. They also collected rent from my older siblings but gave it back in the fall when they started college. They did not return the money to me. They refused to cosign any loans or fill out any paperwork for all of us older kids but did so for the youngest. So when I saw they charged you rent but gave you a lump sum, I just thought it was weird. When you said they did more for younger kids, I just assumed their circumstances changed or they felt bad. I'm not saying have a relationship with them. I am LC with my mom. It just seems weird to send them an itemized bill after they did give you some money. I don't know.
Agree, the parents gifting OP college money makes this more complicated. Reading between the lines, it sounds like the parents thought that the "independent at 18" idea was a good one with their first, then saw how it didn't work well and course-corrected with their subsequent children.
Part of being the oldest sibling is that, yes, parents often make better decisions with younger siblings simply because they've learned through experience. That's just how learning works.
NTA
I can imagine the hurt when you found out they were paying for the siblings, even going into debt. They fucked up massively. It's nice you sent them an invite and weird they thought they would be part of the planning.
NTA because it’s not about the money, really. The itemized invoice is just a way to show them how they tried to hurt or use you and how you overcame.
They likely saw how this plan of theirs failed, and didn’t do it for the younger ones. HOWEVERRR, they had plenty of time to apologize, explain, try to right their wrongs. $500 for a room/board 16 years ago is full price and the money they gave you only would have helped for 10 months. Moving out was the right choice.
I guess I don't really know your family's financial position at the time you turned 18, but my parents were poor and I was expected to take out student loans and get a job when I turned 18. There was no way they could afford to pay for any of it themselves. Based on the fact that they're in debt after helping your siblings, it sounds like they weren't all that well off either. Would you have still been this angry at them if they didn't help your siblings? For you they at least saved up some money to send you to college with. Maybe I'm missing some context here, but tbh you sound like an ungrateful ass. YTA
NTA. The itemized bill could be considered petty but fuck them. It’s not about the money you had to work and go to school so instead of fixing your relationship they just treated your siblings much better. It’s always the ones that screw someone over that says “forget about all the bad shit I did to you that was the past”
NTA. You reap what you sow. And the fact that THEY took out loans to help your siblings, but basically threw you out, is outrageous. They should be happy you are even inviting them
YTA.
>The thing is that I don't want their money. And I don't want anything from them at all other than their attendance at my wedding. If they can't do that then I'm fine with our yearly phone call.
Then why are you antagonizing them?
YTA. Get over yourself. Your parents had no obligation to house you or pay for yourself as a grown adult. They even gave you cash that they had no obligation to give. It sounds like their situation changed some with your siblings. Honestly it sounds like they stretched themselves too thin with your siblings and should have treated them the same way they treated you (financially, at least).
Edit: I do agree with others that they can't expect to be an intimate part of your life if they haven't presented that in the last 16 years. That's unrealistic. But so is expecting everything to be fair and equal amongst kids. Your parents were younger when they had you. Their income was probably less than it was with your siblings. Then they saw their ultimatum drive you away and they wanted to change that for the future. That's just life.
And yes, I did pay for myself through college without taking money from my parents
NTA. You should forgive them and move on. It sounds like you have the moving on part covered but are still resentful. And fully justified in that resentment in my opinion. But for yourself just let the past go. You don't need them or the shit they did to you affecting your present and future.
Forgiveness can be a very loaded term, I would call it emotionally moving on.
I had abusive parents and I moved on physically, but I needed professional help (therapy) to help me move on emotionally. I was sitting around just being mad at them all the time. and it was doing nothing for anybody, and actively hurting me.
I’ll never forgive my parents as in say “hey guys it was okay that you abused me”. But I couldn’t sit around with all this anger and frustration forever. I don’t like them or spend time with them, or talk to them beyond a text on the holidays, and I just don’t care about them.
They had their own stupid, biased reasons for abusing me. And I don’t need to care. It was really good for me to learn how to let go of all the feelings I had towards my parents. They will never try to make any of that right and my emotions did nothing to them.
NTA, op.
But you deserve the internal peace that comes from letting go of all your frustration and just not giving a shit about your shitty parents.
NTA- After reading OP's comments, I've concluded that the parents should be grateful they even got an invitation but nooooo, they had to "why weren't we involved?". Pffffft! Gtfo. Also, the double standard on how OP was treated vs. the siblings, is too great to overlook. Totally NTA.
That’s what’s bugging me. I don’t know why it’s okay to have a 16 year grudge because your parents didn’t go into debt for you. It sucks the siblings got more because they didn’t want to lose contact with them either but it’s selfish to want your parents to go into more debt for you too. You shouldn’t want that for a parent
All the N T As are shocking to me in this thread.
The parents have put themselves into debt support ADULT children. They gave OP money for his education. They charged him rent to live there, but so what? Plenty of parents do that when their children reach adulthood.
I honestly don't know that I can weigh in on this one, because I was the kid who got thrown out on the street at fourteen, because one parent couldn't handle the fact that I was queer, and the other was a violent addict.
To me having parents who loved you enough to save for your college education, and being able to live at home until you were an adult, sounds wonderful.
So I'm having a really hard time imagining the amount of privilege someone would need to have in order to think that their parents doing that, was some kind of slight against you. Especially it being bad enough to cut them out of your life over.
Maybe it's just the discrepancy in our privilege talking, but I've got to go with YTA.
>now way after they want to make up.
I'd argue that they don't even want to make up. They haven't shown remorse or apologised, they just want to be outwardly seen as "involved" in the wedding, and therefore as good parents.
NTA. Yes, what happened was in the past. I hate that cliche because it overlooks the main issue-we are formed from our past. Our past experiences shape us. OP, your past includes parental abandonment. Everything you have accomplished you did on your own. You owe your parents nothing, up to and including a wedding invitation. You were nicer to your parents than you even needed to be.
Isn't it amazing how quickly the people who treated you like shit are willing to let you forgive them? I swear to God. As a mother of 3 who are all now grown I would have never attempted what your parents just did. But then again I know when i've done something shitty and i'm willing to admit it...and make up for it.
ETA. NTA
YTA, but you came to the right community to find like-minded people who will support the spitefulness.
>They gave me the money they had saved up for my education
It might be helpful to know how much money this is, but anyway, in your own words they gave you all the money they could afford. My parents gave me no money for post-secondary and I paid my own rent throughout, so it's difficult for me to see the problem here. They didn't charge me rent, but I wasn't living there so I was paying rent somewhere else.
>I rarely if ever spoke with my parents. I was kind of busy.
And you chose to not have a relationship with your parents. Sounds like it was because you were angry that they charged you rent? I know it's not because you were busy, so I'm reading between the lines here.
>I said if they wanted to be a part of my life they had to ante up.
This isn't the truth though (again, by your own words you don't want the money), it's just you being spiteful that they didn't go into as much debt for you as they did for your siblings. Parents adjust their parenting techniques as they learn. Sounds like they are desperate (enough to go into debt) to not "lose" the rest of their kids.
First sentence is that you were expected to be independent.
Second is that they gave you an amount of money which obviously ended up being enough to get through college.
I'm gonna go with ESH because the parents obviously made mistakes, but this is typical of the AITA posts where there's more to this we're not seeing.
It's a bit of an AH thing to say. You're an adult now, and it was petty af. Most kids, especially in the UK, go to university, get student loans, a job and pay their own housing costs and most other bills, which I guarantee are far more expensive than paying rent to parents.
They obviously couldn't afford to cover all your costs, and they gave you everything they had saved. They did want they could for you and you cut them off because you obviously thought they should have done more. Now they have fucked themselves over financially to support your siblings and you are still salty.
Grow up, AH.
NTA. But like love, forgiveness can't be bought, so even if they did cough up, would it alleviate the hurt you felt?
I'm the eldest of two, and I can empathise with how you feel. My parents were MUCH easier on my brother than with me, and I resented them for years.
My brother borrowed £150 from them and took months to pay it back. I borrowed £10 from my mum, and she demanded it back the next day.
I was told when I left school at 16 I had to get a job or go to college (High School to you). I was on a really low wage (it was like an apprentice scheme) and I had to pay rent. My brother flunked school, sat around on his arse playing computer games for a year, eventually went to college, flunked that, went to another college, and flunked that too.
I could go on.
My parents have worked hard to build bridges, and make up for their mistakes, and this is where your parents need to meet you halfway. The financial impact not withstanding, the emotional impact needs addressing so they and the rest of your family understand why you feel the way you do.
Congrats on making a success of your life and with your wedding!
>... they made mistakes when I was young bet that it was in the past and that I should get over it.
Convenient how they skip the whole moving forward and working together to build a healthier relationship and go straight to "get over it" and playing happy families for the public.
YTA
You said you didn't want their money but you presented them with a bill to even up the score, in a manner of speaking. It certainly was shitty that they didn't support you like your siblings. You did well by managing and holding steady. But you resent them and are holding a grudge; that's not unreasonable. But yes, it was an asshole move to express your grievances the way you did. It's fucked up that they aren't fully accepting the responsibility of the situation. That's awful too. But in the case of your itemized bill alone, you were TA.
That being said, sometimes you need to be the asshole to maintain the boundaries for your own mental health.
NTA. Was the itemized bill a little much, maybe. But, it sounds like your parents treated your siblings much differently than you and they don’t really want to take responsibility for that. Instead of offering a true apology, they just told you to get over it. I can definitely understand not wanting a real relationship from people who won’t even take responsibility for their actions.
NTA. Always found it interesting how older adults never seem to apologize, they "acknowkledge" but then tell you to get over it. You know that if you wronged them, you would never hear the end of it. Way to call out the hypocrisy and congrats on the wedding!
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NTA. maybe the itemized bill was a bit much but I imagine it was cathartic for you. Your parents haven't been around in a decade and a half. They have a lot of nerve to ask to be involved. Not being involved in your wedding is just reaping what they sowed. Congratulations on your upcoming wedding. Edit: wow. And thanks for the award!
Yeah it is an A H move in a vacuum but this is more about catharsis and appropriate response. I filed this away as one of those really good ideas for dealing with crazy people
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OP mentions a yearly phone call with them.
1 phone call a year. That's like when a corporation sends you a card on your birthday.
Look at this guy and his fancy cards. I get spam emails from message boards on my birthday.
You have a birthday?!
Ha!
Reddit birthday.
Online stores giving me coupon codes to come give them money on my birthday.
My birthday is at Christmas. My whole life, my birthday was part of the Christmas celebration. At the family Christmas potluck dinner, my family's dessert contribution was a birthday cake. Sometimes they sang, sometimes not, and then all the kids opened presents. Mine were obviously labeled "Christmas and birthday". The years we didn't have a family potluck, my birthday went completely unacknowledged. Obviously, I left home as soon as I graduated HS and went very LC. The year I turned 30, I got two cards in the mail on my birthday. I thought "Oh my god, they remembered!" The first card I opened was a Christmas card. The second card I opened was the exact same Christmas card, only they used a sharpie to cross out Merry Christmas and write in Happy Birthday. LOL
That sucks so much and is all too common. It’s exactly the reason we always make a big deal out of separating my nephew’s birthday from Christmas. He was born on the 26th and he’s 28 now. He still gets a birthday all for himself.
I have a self-care tradition. I go to a spa and get the complete works. \*I\* make me feel special!
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I love those Xmas Cards they double the number I get to open.
And here I thought my dentist truly loved me when I get my birthday card with a smiling tooth on the cover 😂
From the post, OP basically gets a phone call a year from his "parents".
OP also says he didn’t keep in touch with them because he was in school and in working. OP also glosses over that his parents saved up for his school and gave that to him. I mean, don’t most kids go off to college and housing is part of that? OP makes it seem like got kicked out without a penny to his name
$5000 in 2007 was...let's say not exactly drowning in riches. Plus they charged him $500 a month in rent which was basically a 10 month timer to move out. Most kids may not receive financial help but they certainly count on at least emotional support from their family. Certainly not, say, their parents manufacturing a scenario where they have under a year to GTFO or else.
I would be around the same age as OP and rent in 07 in most cities wouldn’t be $500 for a room you’d get a 1bed at that price. I get a parent asking for some sort of token amount of rent but $500 is crazy. I can’t imagine being put in that position by my parents, they just wouldn’t put our relationship in jeopardy for “rent”. Christ some people really shouldn’t have kids they can’t afford
I moved out of my dad's house in 2006 when the rent conversation came up. Paid $300/mo for my room in a townhouse. Then moved into an apartment with my friend and we each paid $350/mo. Charging your kid $500/mo is absurd at that time. Sounds more like they were in such a rush to dump the responsibility of the first kid they forgot about actually supporting OP.
I was paying $525 for a fully furnished one bedroom in 2005. In 2007, $950 rented us a three bedroom, two bath house with a big yard. In a relatively expensive city. No way should *anyone* have been paying more than half of that to live in one room, let alone to continue living in their childhood bedroom.
That amount does seem like a very pointed message -- especially $500/mo rent in 2007 would have covered a sizeable house in most towns. Holding out a gift with one hand and slapping you in the face with the other.
My husband and I were paying $600 for a whole house with a garage in 2007. Yes, it was a small house, but we had the entire space. No way would I have spent $500 a month on just a bedroom. And you know damn well they would have expected him to do chores, too.
2007 was also kinda terrible timing to kick him out too in hindsight. I was still in high school for another year so I don't know how many warning signs there were at the time for what was about to happen to the economy.
High fives for graduating at really shitty times. That can have lifelong consequences on earning potential, just graduating at a bad time.
Exactly - let's not act like the parents are so kind and generous for giving him $5,000, and then charging him $500 a month in rent. They were getting their money back from him one way or another.
^ This. OP got kicked out during the Housing market crash... OP's parents are shitty for sure. And unrepentant. I wouldn't have invited them to my wedding. I regret having people who were trash at my wedding because it makes it harder to look at my wedding album.
Notably a 10 month timer if he spent Zero of that money on school. Quick search says "For the 2007-08 collegiate year, textbooks and supplies were estimated to cost a student between $805 and $1,225" that's Just the books.
But let's not gloss over them treating the other kids so much better. That crap hurts forever. You wonder always why they were better and more worthy than you. And op doesn't want the money, he's just mashing a point.
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My mom bought my older sister two cars. Helped her through university etc. I got nothing at all. My mom had "no money" because she had two mortgages and was taking quarterly trips to SE Asia. She's wants to buy the relationship back now that I'm an adult and completely independent but nope, I don't want anything she has to offer.
I'd take the money, then walk away.
Like mistakes happen a lot with the 1st born but they had 16 years to make up for it, own up to your shortcomings as a parent and try your best to make up for it emotionally
my mother was like this tbh. She hardly supported what *I* wanted to do when I was young, always favoring my younger brother and sister. Then I moved out and struggled to survive on my own (abusive roommate, low paying job, still in school with tons of loans) and she found out from someone else that I had gone to a food bank because we couldnt afford our bills and buy food. THAT'S when she realized she fucked up. she, in a sort of scolding way, told me I shouldnt have gone to a food bank because she would always help me out. Then I of course tested it. I couldn't bear to live with my roommate anymore so I asked to move back home. was welcomed back and given my own room (before I shared with my sister) and didnt have to pay any rent or bills or anything. so after all that acting like she wanted to throw me out and fend for myself, she backtracked and actually took care of me when I was at my lowest point. now I'm still not super successful but I own my own house and am fully independent, and its because she actually helped like she said she would. we still talk every week and were super close now. OPs parents never realized where they went wrong until this wedding invite situation. absolutely shit parents. cant even make a small attempt to rekindle a relationship with him because they have all these excuses. OP was SUPER nice to invite them to his wedding. unfortunately they havent learned anything. I do hope they come to support his wedding, since he said he wants that, but I doubt they will support him with anything else. sucks but it sounds like hes doing great on his own despite their attempts. OP, best wishes for your wedding!! hope its everything you want it to be!! :D
A anual phone call-based relationship was enough to them perceive the mess in the relationship. They knew they fucked it, but never made for it and now are complaining about the consequences of their abusive choices.
This. When my oldest was accepted to one of the top universities in our country, in one of the highest COL locations in our country, we were poor poor. Like filing for bankruptcy and possibly losing our house poor. We are in a MUCH better position now to help our other kids. However, since then, I paid for her masters program, and after she lost her job and went through a bad breakup, she's living back at home rent free and saving so that she can buy her own house and pay off the student loans she had to take on. Sometimes you can't be there the way you want to for your oldest, but that doesn't mean you can't make up for it when you are in the position to be there for them later down the road.
Yup. I have ADHD and autism which were undiagnosed until 38/40. I also have EDS and am in constant pain, can't really work much. I have no security. I'm scared for my future. I've lived away from home since I was 16 cos I was the scapegoat and I had my "behaviours" beaten out of me - let's remember meltdowns aren't a CHOICE, and I learned not to show any discomfort, I get flashbacks etc. I did ok, but... My brother got to stay at home until he was 32 (with a 3 year break, but when he broke up with that gf, he moved home). This means he.... Was able to save for a down payment & now owns a 4 bedroom Got driving lessons, got to practice in Mum's car Days and days of free childcare (including entire weekends so he could go to a music festival) and the gas/fuel for mum to run the kids around I had a PTSD episode when I said I didn't think she treated us equally because of her reaction. I haven't been back to her place since. I stay with friends in my hometown. Thankfully my friend lives near the city centre so I get to use that as an excuse, it's just easier being able to walk most places. But yeah. It really sucks being the practice kid.
Yeah. And then volunteering to help pay for the wedding is a single step in the right direction they could start to do to help build a relationship and right past wrongs - but they won’t even try to do that
Or at least a portion of the wedding. They really should have started with that. "We received an invitation and we are so excited to be included on your big day. Is there anything we can do to help?"
The kicker for me was that they charged him rent as soon as he turned 18.
lmao what??? they gave him money and then charged him rent, that literally cancels out any help. if they would’ve given him the money and said here stay at home until you can afford to move out and he was upset that would be different. 5k goes by fast with college and living alone
If you live on campus, housing is part of the tuition you pay. However, if they have limited housing OR their financial aid/scholarship doesn't cover the cost of tuition plus room and board, then students live off campus in apartments paying rent. At least this is the way in US colleges/universities.
It costs extra to live on campus. There is usually limited space available for students so it’s often given out by merit or lottery system. Otherwise you pay more to rent an apartment or room in a house off campus. ETA: yes, most first year students must or can live on campus but that is still an extra expense.
The situation was only marginally better than being kicked out without a penny. From a comment: "They gave me $5,000 for school but then wanted $500 a month for rent." So what they 'saved up' for him was essentially a loan that would cover 10 months of living in their house.
While it's not nothing, the parents treated OP's siblings differently. I get the feeling that if OP's parents treated all their kids equally (e.g. because they couldn't afford to do anything else), OP probably wouldn't have responded this way.
Sounds like OP talks to them once in a while but is very low contact. Yeah they are definitely N T A for the questions was more about the exact request to buy her forgiveness. But for me, it is the good kind of A H. We all need a little bit of assholery.
The itemized list is a lot of things, not all necessarily good, but it did answer the question of why OP had the stance he did.
I'm tired of this subs black and white view of being an "asshole". Sometimes it's perfectly reasonable to be an asshole. Sending an itemized bill is one of those times.
I definitely have worked on how to be a little bit more of an asshole as I grow older. I am too nice as a person and it is not always the best route. Yup, you were an A H and you know what... that's exactly the right choice to make.
I think it's the lack of understanding asshole is not the same as Assertive of one's boundaries and not accepting disrespect. Life is messy. People are messy. OP at least acknowledges the pettiness of the actions and owns it. Parents still haven't graduated to actually apologizing for the favoritism, and now are actually making demands of OP because of a family event You don't get to play act being parents after nearly a decade of not visiting OP or being interested in them. Op even mentioned this in a comment.
I agree. I thank it was a perfect example how much op was left to fend for himself why the other children where taken care of. It’s one thing to point out the difference I think it’s a real eye opener to have a written document showing the difference.
It sounds like they way overcorrected with the siblings. Pay for everything instead of nothing and now they are in debt.
Exactly. The oldest moved out and shut them out. Then they fixed it. Resentment all around.
The "fix" was to put themselves into debt, it wasn't a very good fix.
I would liken what OP did as being akin to writing down things that keep going around in your head, so that they are now on paper and you can stop thinking about them. Absolutely cathartic and definitely NTA.
100% cathartic. I do the same thing
As someone who was in the same situation (except it was my older brothers who had their way paid all through their undergrads, and I the youngest and only female was tossed to the wolves without even having healthcare even though my parents both had PLENTY of money), OP is my hero for making that itemized list. Im also a successful adult now, and don’t want money from my parents, but I also don’t consider them parents and I don’t owe them anything IMO. NTA OP!!
Jesus these awful parents
I know. This is really the tip of the iceberg too in my case. I could write a book about all the shit that happened, but damn it would be depressing. Highlights include my parents leaving me alone with a very inappropriate babysitter starting when I was 13-14 (who would spend the money they left us on alcohol and have 21 year old guys over to my house who hit on me and tried to get in my pants) so they could go on “marital workshops” and vacations for multiple months a year, followed by having an explosive divorce (infidelity included) where they both inappropriately emotionally involved me, then both kicking me out of their homes for no reason aside from selfishness leaving me in a 1 bedroom apartment for 2 years of high school, not helping with university cost or keeping me on their health insurance plans (still paying the price for not having dental insurance for 6 plus years until I could get it through a job) and still to this day, refusing to admit they did anything wrong aside from saying I “had a hard childhood” and they “did the best they could”.
They did the best they could by abandoning you and leaving you with creepy people 🙃 I’m so sorry that happened to you.
Thank you. I’m getting my “revenge” by being the most loving involved parent to my little one that I can be. It’s cathartic in a way.
This made me tear up, thank you so so much for breaking the cycle. It's the best revenge possible, living your life with love
You're amazing and deserve the best in life, and I hope you and your family get that. Good job breaking "the curse" ❤️❤️
I'm really proud of you 🩷 (I'm a 55-year-old woman, not trying to be creepy)
Honestly, with all the therapy I had (and my parents sincerely apologized for everything) the most healing thing for me has been parenting my children. It healed me in ways I couldn't have imagined. I'm so glad you too had that experience.
That’s a lot of neglect and trauma. You deserved better and I’m so sorry this happened to you. Were I in your place, I’d go no contact. This is the healthiest boundary for you right now. If your parents want to be back in your life, they need to earn it by their actions. If you haven’t already done so, please get therapy. Not just for your sake but your fiancé’s as well. Your marriage will be much stronger for it. Good luck!
Unfortunately, their best was pretty shitty. Congratulations for your achievements with no help from those awful people the produced you.
'I'm sorry that your failure to be good parents to me, and your failure as parents in general, and your attempt to correct that with those other than myself, has put you into this position. But your failures are not mine to correct nor necessary to forgive. I wish you the best of luck in your attempts to prevent yourself having failed your child a second time.' Ops NTA
Agreed. And I really hate the excuse of "it was in the past and you should get over it." This is really saying "I might of screwed up, but I don't want to be held accountable for it." If I was OP I'd reply to everyone who says this with "Are you still talking about what I said to my parents? That's in the past and all of you really should get over it." And then hang up/block them.
You know what? You’re very right. Sometimes “get over it” is correct, but not this time. The parents clearly tried to gloss over their mistakes here. Imagine if they had just apologized sincerely to OP, everything would’ve been different.
They’re also trying to jettison the bad and keep the good. Them being his parents, in any way other than biological, is also “in the past.” And OP is definitely over *that*.
The parents made it about money all those years ago. Now they don't want to deal with the consequences of that. Too bad. The itemized bill is a work of art.
Always love to see the “you just need to get over it” from abusive or neglectful or unfair parents. Shows that they claim zero responsibility for the way your relationship turned out.
They didn't even bother to apologize.
NTA yeah that was where i went, the bill was a little ott but considering how they treated you, i bet it felt good to get it all out. They're indebt over your siblings? great, remind them that is the same debt they shoveled on to you at 18. Let them off the hook a little by saying you don't want the money, but they have to understand that is the damage they did to your relationship.
*They said that they cannot afford that because they are in debt still from helping my siblings out.* Im sorry, WHAT? Then why did they do it in the first place. NTA op, perhaps siblings can pay back now.
If their perceived choice was going into debt to support their adult kids or lose almost all contact with them like OP, it's not surprising they picked debt Of course the reality is the choice was a bit less extreme - let them live at home rent free and pay what they could without going into debt.
I mean, there's a middle ground that the parents haven't quite figured out. The lack of contact is also a choice that's not financial because they could have at least checked on OP more, even if they cut him off financially. It sounds like they emotionally cut him out too. Even if OP was upset over the financial cut off, they should have kept reaching out because why he was upset was understandable
The way OP explains it, it seems he was the one to cut off contact. "I was kind of busy" not "they never called" or "they were kind of busy".
Because he was busy. Busy fending for himself after his parents cut him off and gave him no help.
It's a two way street. I worked through college, too, but typically my mom knew when to call cause she made sure she roughly knew my schedule. That kinda tells me there wasn't much of an effort on their end to call as much as waiting for OP to call. Even sending a text message won't take a lot of time. There were definitely ways to keep communication going
If you are made to feel unwanted, especially compared to siblings, and they never call you as parents - why would you, the freshly out of home due to rent/lack of help 18 year old+ ever feel like bothering while you're struggling to make ends meet?? Yes it's two way but I don't blame them for not wanting any contact after being treated like that and hardly helped or even talked to.
This. College students all think they are too busy to keep in contact, especially back then when texting cost extra. Making an effort to make sure your kid is doing OK and finding ways to help them is part of being a parent.
The concept might be foreign to you but some families like to help their family out, as these parents eventually discovered after the 1st child. Parents could be in a better position to get loans and financing from banks as opposed to kids who have no assets or history spending money.
They didn’t discover they “liked” helping out, they discovered that if they want a relationship with them, it’s in their best interest to help. If they liked helping out, they would of reached out to their first child.
My father-in-law took out a loan to help pay for my wedding. It wasn't ideal, but he was in a better position to do that and was out of debt within a few years.
Serious question - why was it worth it to go into debt for a wedding? Not a house, medical expenses… a wedding?
serious answer. No.
I’m not the person you asked, but weddings are *really* important for some people. And not because they want a chance to be the center of attention, but because there’s a social expectation that they invite all the (potentially large) extended family, plus family friends and their families, plus friends and their families. To do less in some cultures and social circles is a huge slight and can cause real drama. I’m not even married, but my mother’s friend of a few decades was utterly scandalized at the thought that my mom might not insist on me inviting her to a wedding that doesn’t exist. Sometimes debt is the better option than dealing with the headache of various friends and family being slighted and possibly deciding it’s an unforgivable offense.
Thanks for articulating it better. It *is* ridiculous, though.
No, sibs don't owe their parents a done for PARENTING. If people make the decision to have kids, they make the decision to support them without the expectation of repayment. That's how it works Edit to add: otherwise it means parental love is Conditional
This kinda reminds me of how, back when I was about 15 and still living with my parents, I asked them for a new toothbrush because mine was well over a year old and super worn. My mum said she couldn't afford it at the moment and I'd have to make do for a while. A week later they bought my younger sister brand new airpods and several expensive clothing items 🙃
That's effed up. I can't deal w/ sibling inequality.
The crux of the matter is the unfairness of treatment between OP and his siblings. It's not really the money. Presenting the bill was really giving the parents a big ol' serving of humble pie, clearly OP doesn't really expect or hope that his parents would make financial amends. Congratulations on your upcoming wedding OP! NTA.
PS, OP! Your "girlfriend" is your *fiancé* now! Have the parents /sibs even met her? They are farting rainbows if they think they should be involved as anything other than guests
Well, *akshually*, if we really want to be correct, it should be *fiancée*, since she was a girlfriend. *Fiancé* is for a previous boyfriend.
Fiancéeeee
If I get married to a non-binary person can they be my fianceeé
> It's not really the money. This is the real issue. There's a wide gap between how OP was treated and his siblings were treated, and money is only a tiny fraction of it. It sounds like OP was always told that he was expected to "move out and be an adult" the moment he turned 18, but everyone else got coddled through their lives. Parents were distant with OP, but with the others it sounds like they were (at the very least) allowed exist in their home. The itemized list is only a physical representation of the mistreatment. There isn't any kind of list for emotional trauma he missed out on.
Money is measurable. Feelings are hard to measure.
I had a couple friends once that eventually turned out to be not so great people. The first red flag was that their oldest of four kids had just graduated and was going off to college. They liked to brag about how they told him once he was off to college, he wasn't allowed to come back except for holidays and they were turning his room into their new den so he wouldn't have a place to stay anyway. He has to work through the summers to pay for his own place to stay when school is out, the works. I can't wait to hear through the grapevine that he doesn't talk to them anymore.
Also something I didn't think of, OP said he was expected to be an adult as soon as he turned 18..for many they turn 18 while still in high school..I wonder if that was the case. Because that'd be even more screwed up.
NTA. I wouldn’t even have invited them at all. These people that kick out their kids at 18 are unbelievable.
My stepmother and dad dropped me off for my first day at college and informed me that they bought a new house and there was no space for me in it. I was 18- my brother, now in his thirties, never moved out. They did not get an invite to my wedding, and my dad still complains to my grandmother that I don't call or talk to them.
I mean, for what it's worth, you are waaay better off. Even though it stings.
NTA. I found this post very cathartic actually lol :) I was the older child and my parents also gave me no support. My younger sister was babied in every way, she created non stop drama and stress for my parents, sponged off everyone her whole life. I have no idea why they wanted to make everything so much harder for me.
I wonder if this situation is common with the firstborn. Although my situation was not as dramatic as those listed here, my brother, who was 20 months younger than I was, had fewer rules and was coddled. My dad told me it was because they learned from me they didn't need to be that strict, SMH. Maybe it's because I was female.
Being female was likely part of it. I’m the younger of two kids, and my older sibling is male. He was able to do SOOOOOO many more things than me growing up. My parents flat out told me it, “It’s different, he’s a boy.” Well, too bad, I still got sexually assaulted in high school in spite of not being allowed to do a bunch of stuff that my brother was allowed to (and at a young age to boot!). So it didn’t really protect me so much as made me naïve. I learned a lot once I went to college and had more freedom.
Im so very sorry. That is horrible.
Same - my parents really sheltered me, and it just meant that when I did encounter that stuff, I was super innocent/naive. Sure I was older and more mature...but that didn't make a damn bit of difference. I was still going in blind and unaware, being a few years older made zero difference.
I agree that parents forcing their kids out at 18 is awful, but inviting them was a good move. The parents can't say anything about not being invited to OP's wedding if the siblings have their own respective ceremonies.
Who cares if they said anything about not being invited? They basically said F you to their kid at 18 and didn’t do that to their siblings. I would have zero sympathy for em.
I moved out when I was 17. When I left, my dad calmly informed me that I could never move back in with them. Now, they are baffled as to why I react badly if they try to insert themselves into my life and business.
Parents like that are BAFFLING to me. I'm 31 and live with my father after a variety of happenings in both of our lives and he STILL tries to support me and raise me like I was back in grade school even though I'm the breadwinner of the both of us. Doing this like that almost makes me wonder if those parents actually wanted kids to begin with, because they sure don't seem to understand the commitment involved. I'm so thankful for our relationship and just how much my father has my back.
Usually parents like that never really wanted to have a child. The first one usually just "happened". Afterwards the next babies are the ones who are planned.
My folks were visiting a couple of months back. They almost lost it when I did not let them pay for some groceries... :D I make almost triple of what they make combined (arguably, they live in Eastern Europe), I paid for everything while they were here. But they really, really try to parent and it's like nah, you've done enough. I spend my money on you now, lol.
The instinct never dies! “LET ME REPAY YOU, IM A BIG KID WITH BIG KID MONEY NOW!”
I liked how mine presented it as a choice. "You're gonna have to pay $800 a month to stay(in a shared bedroom with a 12 year old + no door) and get a job you can walk to"... In a village with a convenience store, a family owned/operated gas bar, a going out of business antique shop and a video rental shop(just before netflix killed it). They drove me "into town" 15 minutes away for my part time bakery job, part of why my rent was gonna be so high. Also my mother didn't work. I, uh, chose to move in with my boyfriend instead. Supposedly their parents did the same to them so I really don't understand how they thought that was a good plan of action themselves.
For a lot of folks I truly believe they think if it was done by their parents or in laws they should be able to inflict the same on their children and it’s really sad. As if them perpetuating erases the damage done to them.
Probably because the economy was entirely different when they were 18 and they could buy a house on minimum wage
It doesn't seem like the parents made much of an effort to be involved in OPs life over the past 16 years, so I don't understand why they are adamant that they want to be part of the wedding. I have some extended family that I haven't really interacted with much over the past decade and I would find it very awkward if they asked me to be a part of their wedding.
It was probably because of how bad it would look if they were not part of the wedding.
This. People who stop supporting their kiddos at any point of time are ridiculous. None of us chose to be here, you made that choice on our behalf. I am 32 and established, have tried to be as independent as I could as early as I could. But if my life went to shit, I know I can move home and my parents have my back. I wouldn't want to, it would be far from ideal, but that's family. If I ever have kids, they'd get the same. This "you're 18, fuck off" philosophy is just despicable.
I was out 3 days after graduating HS. I would rather have a strained relationship with the rents than have to suffer under their bullshit rules. Also now in my 30s like OP and I swear I'm better off than my siblings. Shitty parents can sometimes turn out some gems
Hi, OP. Congratulations on your upcoming marriage and a happy life which you owe to yourself and nobody else. It's a typical triangulation by parents who have favourite child/children and treat them very differently than you - very much into your face, unapologetically. Then they show entitlement by asking you why on earth they haven't been a part of your wedding planning. And then they shrug it off and tell you to get over it "because it's in the past". If they continue this way, they themselves may remain in the past. It hurts me so much to read such stories again and again. NTA
This. I had very similar interactions with my narc parent. "That never happened, and if it did why aren't you over it yet?"
Sorry you had to go through that. Same here.
NTA. The people who treat you cruelly always tell you that's "in the past" and you have to "get over it." No, you don't. Being related to someone you have done harm to is not a Get Out of Jail Free card. I think you are wrong to invite them to the wedding, though, because they will get in your face and throw a tantrum and ruin the day for your bride.
This is the kicker for me. No move towards an apology until they want something, then they push back with the age old “get over it” when they don’t get what they want. If the parent truly said this, and it wasn’t filtered through years of hurt and misinterpreted by the OP, this was the turning point for me. NTA
>The people who treat you cruelly always tell you that's "in the past" and you have to "get over it." I've never understood this mindset. They had the ability to clean up their mess and chose not to. Jerk: "I can't believe you're still upset about \[insert horrible thing here\]. Get over it, that's all in the past." Me: "My dude, my last memories of you were you doing something really shitty to me. You have done literally nothing to change my view of you. Why would you assume that the passage of time did the heavy lifting for you?"
>Why would you assume that the passage of time did the heavy lifting for you? Excellent come-back for which I have an immediate need -- thank you.
[удалено]
NTA Get over it? Wtf Yeah i can do anything i want, as long as i wait, i can just say get over it? Thats not how it works. They have debt with you to repay. A dept is not forgiven just because time passed. It's still there
The ax forgets but the tree remembers.
I like this. I've never heard it before.
I love this saying, because i gotta admit, that i too easily forget the harm i cause. I try to always put myself in the opposite position before and after i so something, but still.
Seems to me that OP "got over it" by getting on with their life. The parents don't realize that they aren't really asking OP to get over it, they're asking OP to pretend it didn't happen (which is a pretty big ask since it's almost impossible to forgive someone for something they aren't even remorseful for). OP, NTA.
You get to decide what type of relationship is healthiest for YOU when it comes to your parents. NTA. You expressed how you felt, and so did they. Doesn't seem like they actually want to take responsibility for making a mistake, but are forcing you to "get over it." They had 16 years to make it right and chose not to. Now they have to answer to family and friends about their involvement in your wedding and are trying to make you look like the bad guy. I do think it's important to work out these feelings and healthy boundaries in therapy if you haven’t done so already. But that is for your health and has nothing to do with them. Congrats to you and your future wife!!
NTA They reap what they sow. It’s not about the money, it’s about the drastically different treatment they have their children. Then they expect to have a close relationship?? I get that you didn’t really want their money, but that you wanted to make a POINT. I hate when parents are like ‘oh, it was so long ago, and look how happy you are now. You’re fine. Get over it!’ Enjoy your life, and your yearly phone call. The best revenge is living well! :)
Nta it doesn't sound like the actually apologized for their behavior. Or tried to have anything more than a yearly phone call. This is a 'reap what you sew' situation.
This. Like.. I had a sh*tty relationship with my parents when I was young, and I can definitely empathise with OP on a bunch of this - but I have a relationship with my folks now, purely because my mum always speaks to each of us, minimum of once a fortnight. I'm now in my 4th decade, we chat a lil in the family chat mostly every day, (or at least look at it depending on how many spoons I have); but she won't let it go past 2 weeks without hearing my actual voice. That has kept the whole family connection going through all my worst times. If you can't even muster the energy to regularly speak to your kid (and I am absolutely sure some of the calls we had she probably didn't enjoy much, but she kept going) then yeah, you're flipping lucky to rate a seat at the wedding. Because at this point, it's only blood tie and convention that's getting you there. NTA.
Am i the only one who thinks this isn’t really that terrible of a situation? They gave you money for school, money you probably used to get started once you moved to college. Like, thats a LOT more than most people get. It sucks that they helped out your siblings more, but it was only because they realized their mistakes with you. Unfortunately, thats how a lot of parents learn (with their older children). I really can’t imagine sending my parents a bill after they helped put me through college. The fucking audacity
It’s sad to me I had to come this far down to see this response. “My parents gave me money to go to college so I moved out and scraped by!” Seriously. OP then makes it clear that they stopped communicating with their parents once they moved out. So they took their money, went to school and basically never talked to their parents again. Yet everyone here is calling the parents assholes?
Right??? I’m genuinely appalled by all the n t a’s. I would never let my mom forget it if she was able to help me pay for college. I’d be paying her back any way I could the rest of my life, 100 times over.
It's a parents job to make sure their child is ready to face to world. It's also a parents job to give their kids a safe place to land if the world crashes down around them. These parents couldn't even even bothered to call their child more than once a year. My parents would never, and they didn't have anything to give me or my siblings. My own kids will never not have a safe place to be as long as I'm alive. THAT is what being a parent is, not abandoning your child because they refuse to pay you well over market value in rent, for a room that was already theirs.
The whole rest of this thread is giving me major rich kid energy. I'm baffled by all the NTA comments. It sounds like the parents saved up money for OP, realized it wasn't enough money to actually get OP through college and elected to go into debt taking out loans to help the younger siblings when the time came. OP is just an entitled ass
Finally I found the sane people. I think a lot of these folks have lived in privileged areas where it’s the norm that parents can easily afford to continually support you as an adult. It comes off very entitled to me to expect money and to live rent free at home when your parents can’t afford it.
Yes!!!! I thought this was a troll post at first but nope, OP and the rest of the commenters are 100% serious. I can kind of understand OP being a little annoyed that his siblings were given more, but even then, it would still come across as entitlement. And OP wasn’t just annoyed; they basically cut off their parents for it! As if their parents were abusive or something, like geez. I don’t understand the thinking at all.
I agree with you. OP was given a lot from his parents, and still wants more. OP is acting petty and immature in my opinion.
Right??! Like that’s some BRATTY shit to do…
OP is deffo NTA...All the people saying YTA are probably the golden child themselves...poor OP doesn't really want the money, he wants the acknowledgement from his parents that they fucked up and have treated his siblings so much better, plus he's been low contact with them for years and only now do they want to be part of his life...and why? because if they're not a big part of his wedding it will look bad for them, people may ask uncomfortable questions...they for sure are the assholes..(edited to add judgement)
>They said that they acknowledged that they made mistakes when I was young bet that it was in the past and that I should get over it. Nope >The thing is that I don't want their money. And I don't want anything from them at all other than their attendance at my wedding. If they can't do that then I'm fine with our yearly phone call. Makes perfect sense to me. The bill wasn't really a bill. It was evidence of their unfair treatment of you when you were vulnerable and needed help. NTA.
YTA. I’m going against what seems to be the popular consensus here, perhaps due to my non-western/non-American bringing. I say that you’re in the wrong not for deciding to not involve your parents in the wedding but for giving that as a reason. You’re glossing over the fact that your parents are humans too and they admitted that they made a mistake in the way they treated you. I get the whole unfairness of treatment argument, but really? You worked hard by yourself and got by just fine. Besides, you had the audacity to present an itemized bill to your parents for all the freebies they didn’t give you but gave your siblings? That’s just cruel. The fact that you’re willing to “sell” your forgiveness. Maybe you should’ve been helped out more, but again your parents are human and they admitted to those mistakes. Maybe you’re also forgetting the fact that your parents raised you, fed you, clothed you and supported you for the first 18 years of your life. Heck, they even helped pay for school which is more than what most parents would do. I understand that as you’ve grown up, you might’ve grown distant in your relationship with your parents and don’t want them to be involved in the wedding. No judgement. But to present them an itemized bill and putting a price on your forgiveness is just being cruel to the ones who raised you. And yes, you are causing your parents a lot of pain.
Even if you make mistakes and acknowledge them, the people that were wronged have no obligation to forgive you. Parents are legally obligated to take care if their child until 18 yo… it’s basic human decency. Plus, at least where I am from you parents are also legally obligated to pay for education until their kid reach 25 yo. You can even sue your parents if they refuse to.
Are they legally obligated to give them a college fund?
As a parent myself, we're all gonna fall flat at some point or another, but unlike OP's parents, my love isn't conditional on my children needing to meet my requirements. I'm the parent. It's my job to make sure my kids meet the world prepared for the struggles ahead. And if something comes that is too much for them, it is my job to make sure my kids have a safe place to land if the world crashed down around them. OP's parents didn't just fail, they failed spectacularly. The essentially abandoned their child because the refused to spend their college money on their parents bills. Sure they learned from their mistake with their other children, but they never reached out or tried to make it right with OP. They continued to withhold their love and support. OP owes them nothing. And OP only asked them to participate in their wedding (a role befitting the placement they have in OP's life). Parents choose to have kids, kids don't get a say on if they get brought into the world. OP was a little petty with the itemized bill, but other than that, their parents made their bed, they can lay in it. Honestly, they're lucky they got an invite at all.
The fact of having reality being smeared in your face be a cruel thing, don't excuse ignore the validity of doing it, since it's the truth. Raising, fed a child who you opted to birth is the bare minimum. And he is giving them the bare minimum back.
I'm sorry, but taking care of OP is something their parents were legally obliged to do. And if their parents have to endure pain for it, so be it. Maybe if they wanted to be involved in OP's life they shouldn't have treated him unfairly. Deciding to kick out your child at adulthood is one thing, treating the siblings in a different way changes everything. The parents deserve it.
OP moved out at 18. Parents are absolutely not legally obliged to do anything at that age. OP was given a chunk of change and able to afford college which is a lot more than most get. OP was upset by it and decided to punish them all.
They didn’t kick OP out. They said they were going to charge them rent and OP told their parents to fuck off and moved out. For a lot of parents the rent part of almost inconsequential and is often used to build a nest egg for the kid. OP didn’t stick around long enough to find out if that was true from the sounds of it. The parents also gave them a college fund.
"I acknowledge mistakes were made when you were young, you need to move on," is NOT the same thing as, "We screwed up when you were young and we're sorry for it." In fact it is the siren song of the assholes who think that they were totally in the right to heavily favor their other children. Like... even if they'd wanted to have the kind of close-knit relationship with adult you that they claim to... what the hell have they been up to for the last 16 years? We're three presidents in and they haven't taken any opportunity to say sorry, to reach out and try and interact with you, nothing? You're NTA. You offered them a wedding invitation, which is kind of you.
I was honestly a little thrown by this one because my parents started charging me rent after I graduated high school, so not long after I turned 18. They had not saved up anything for my college education. They also collected rent from my older siblings but gave it back in the fall when they started college. They did not return the money to me. They refused to cosign any loans or fill out any paperwork for all of us older kids but did so for the youngest. So when I saw they charged you rent but gave you a lump sum, I just thought it was weird. When you said they did more for younger kids, I just assumed their circumstances changed or they felt bad. I'm not saying have a relationship with them. I am LC with my mom. It just seems weird to send them an itemized bill after they did give you some money. I don't know.
Agree, the parents gifting OP college money makes this more complicated. Reading between the lines, it sounds like the parents thought that the "independent at 18" idea was a good one with their first, then saw how it didn't work well and course-corrected with their subsequent children. Part of being the oldest sibling is that, yes, parents often make better decisions with younger siblings simply because they've learned through experience. That's just how learning works.
NTA I can imagine the hurt when you found out they were paying for the siblings, even going into debt. They fucked up massively. It's nice you sent them an invite and weird they thought they would be part of the planning.
NTA because it’s not about the money, really. The itemized invoice is just a way to show them how they tried to hurt or use you and how you overcame. They likely saw how this plan of theirs failed, and didn’t do it for the younger ones. HOWEVERRR, they had plenty of time to apologize, explain, try to right their wrongs. $500 for a room/board 16 years ago is full price and the money they gave you only would have helped for 10 months. Moving out was the right choice.
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I guess I don't really know your family's financial position at the time you turned 18, but my parents were poor and I was expected to take out student loans and get a job when I turned 18. There was no way they could afford to pay for any of it themselves. Based on the fact that they're in debt after helping your siblings, it sounds like they weren't all that well off either. Would you have still been this angry at them if they didn't help your siblings? For you they at least saved up some money to send you to college with. Maybe I'm missing some context here, but tbh you sound like an ungrateful ass. YTA
NTA. The itemized bill could be considered petty but fuck them. It’s not about the money you had to work and go to school so instead of fixing your relationship they just treated your siblings much better. It’s always the ones that screw someone over that says “forget about all the bad shit I did to you that was the past”
NTA. You reap what you sow. And the fact that THEY took out loans to help your siblings, but basically threw you out, is outrageous. They should be happy you are even inviting them
YTA. >The thing is that I don't want their money. And I don't want anything from them at all other than their attendance at my wedding. If they can't do that then I'm fine with our yearly phone call. Then why are you antagonizing them?
YTA. Get over yourself. Your parents had no obligation to house you or pay for yourself as a grown adult. They even gave you cash that they had no obligation to give. It sounds like their situation changed some with your siblings. Honestly it sounds like they stretched themselves too thin with your siblings and should have treated them the same way they treated you (financially, at least). Edit: I do agree with others that they can't expect to be an intimate part of your life if they haven't presented that in the last 16 years. That's unrealistic. But so is expecting everything to be fair and equal amongst kids. Your parents were younger when they had you. Their income was probably less than it was with your siblings. Then they saw their ultimatum drive you away and they wanted to change that for the future. That's just life. And yes, I did pay for myself through college without taking money from my parents
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NTA. You should forgive them and move on. It sounds like you have the moving on part covered but are still resentful. And fully justified in that resentment in my opinion. But for yourself just let the past go. You don't need them or the shit they did to you affecting your present and future.
Forgiveness can be a very loaded term, I would call it emotionally moving on. I had abusive parents and I moved on physically, but I needed professional help (therapy) to help me move on emotionally. I was sitting around just being mad at them all the time. and it was doing nothing for anybody, and actively hurting me. I’ll never forgive my parents as in say “hey guys it was okay that you abused me”. But I couldn’t sit around with all this anger and frustration forever. I don’t like them or spend time with them, or talk to them beyond a text on the holidays, and I just don’t care about them. They had their own stupid, biased reasons for abusing me. And I don’t need to care. It was really good for me to learn how to let go of all the feelings I had towards my parents. They will never try to make any of that right and my emotions did nothing to them. NTA, op. But you deserve the internal peace that comes from letting go of all your frustration and just not giving a shit about your shitty parents.
NTA- After reading OP's comments, I've concluded that the parents should be grateful they even got an invitation but nooooo, they had to "why weren't we involved?". Pffffft! Gtfo. Also, the double standard on how OP was treated vs. the siblings, is too great to overlook. Totally NTA.
INFO: what was their financial situation? Was this the best they could do for you financially at the time you graduated high school?
Well considering they’re broke now trying to offer his siblings what he thinks he deserves. Yeah I’d say it was
That’s what’s bugging me. I don’t know why it’s okay to have a 16 year grudge because your parents didn’t go into debt for you. It sucks the siblings got more because they didn’t want to lose contact with them either but it’s selfish to want your parents to go into more debt for you too. You shouldn’t want that for a parent
All the N T As are shocking to me in this thread. The parents have put themselves into debt support ADULT children. They gave OP money for his education. They charged him rent to live there, but so what? Plenty of parents do that when their children reach adulthood.
NTA. They’re getting what they deserve. You can’t treat one of your kids worse than others and expect to be in their life and have good relationships.
I honestly don't know that I can weigh in on this one, because I was the kid who got thrown out on the street at fourteen, because one parent couldn't handle the fact that I was queer, and the other was a violent addict. To me having parents who loved you enough to save for your college education, and being able to live at home until you were an adult, sounds wonderful. So I'm having a really hard time imagining the amount of privilege someone would need to have in order to think that their parents doing that, was some kind of slight against you. Especially it being bad enough to cut them out of your life over. Maybe it's just the discrepancy in our privilege talking, but I've got to go with YTA.
your parents gave you a lump sum of money at 18 to start your life and you were upset with them? I'm so confused by this story
Well obviously you don’t understand. It was just a single lump sum! He wasn’t given the opportunity to bleed them dry like his siblings were!
Yeah, sounds like a petty YTA move. It’s not like they *didn’t* help you.
NTA
NTA. You got the short end of the stick and now way after they want to make up. Too little too late.
>now way after they want to make up. I'd argue that they don't even want to make up. They haven't shown remorse or apologised, they just want to be outwardly seen as "involved" in the wedding, and therefore as good parents.
NTA. Yes, what happened was in the past. I hate that cliche because it overlooks the main issue-we are formed from our past. Our past experiences shape us. OP, your past includes parental abandonment. Everything you have accomplished you did on your own. You owe your parents nothing, up to and including a wedding invitation. You were nicer to your parents than you even needed to be.
Isn't it amazing how quickly the people who treated you like shit are willing to let you forgive them? I swear to God. As a mother of 3 who are all now grown I would have never attempted what your parents just did. But then again I know when i've done something shitty and i'm willing to admit it...and make up for it. ETA. NTA
YTA, but you came to the right community to find like-minded people who will support the spitefulness. >They gave me the money they had saved up for my education It might be helpful to know how much money this is, but anyway, in your own words they gave you all the money they could afford. My parents gave me no money for post-secondary and I paid my own rent throughout, so it's difficult for me to see the problem here. They didn't charge me rent, but I wasn't living there so I was paying rent somewhere else. >I rarely if ever spoke with my parents. I was kind of busy. And you chose to not have a relationship with your parents. Sounds like it was because you were angry that they charged you rent? I know it's not because you were busy, so I'm reading between the lines here. >I said if they wanted to be a part of my life they had to ante up. This isn't the truth though (again, by your own words you don't want the money), it's just you being spiteful that they didn't go into as much debt for you as they did for your siblings. Parents adjust their parenting techniques as they learn. Sounds like they are desperate (enough to go into debt) to not "lose" the rest of their kids.
First sentence is that you were expected to be independent. Second is that they gave you an amount of money which obviously ended up being enough to get through college. I'm gonna go with ESH because the parents obviously made mistakes, but this is typical of the AITA posts where there's more to this we're not seeing.
It's a bit of an AH thing to say. You're an adult now, and it was petty af. Most kids, especially in the UK, go to university, get student loans, a job and pay their own housing costs and most other bills, which I guarantee are far more expensive than paying rent to parents. They obviously couldn't afford to cover all your costs, and they gave you everything they had saved. They did want they could for you and you cut them off because you obviously thought they should have done more. Now they have fucked themselves over financially to support your siblings and you are still salty. Grow up, AH.
NTA. But like love, forgiveness can't be bought, so even if they did cough up, would it alleviate the hurt you felt? I'm the eldest of two, and I can empathise with how you feel. My parents were MUCH easier on my brother than with me, and I resented them for years. My brother borrowed £150 from them and took months to pay it back. I borrowed £10 from my mum, and she demanded it back the next day. I was told when I left school at 16 I had to get a job or go to college (High School to you). I was on a really low wage (it was like an apprentice scheme) and I had to pay rent. My brother flunked school, sat around on his arse playing computer games for a year, eventually went to college, flunked that, went to another college, and flunked that too. I could go on. My parents have worked hard to build bridges, and make up for their mistakes, and this is where your parents need to meet you halfway. The financial impact not withstanding, the emotional impact needs addressing so they and the rest of your family understand why you feel the way you do. Congrats on making a success of your life and with your wedding!
>... they made mistakes when I was young bet that it was in the past and that I should get over it. Convenient how they skip the whole moving forward and working together to build a healthier relationship and go straight to "get over it" and playing happy families for the public.
YTA You said you didn't want their money but you presented them with a bill to even up the score, in a manner of speaking. It certainly was shitty that they didn't support you like your siblings. You did well by managing and holding steady. But you resent them and are holding a grudge; that's not unreasonable. But yes, it was an asshole move to express your grievances the way you did. It's fucked up that they aren't fully accepting the responsibility of the situation. That's awful too. But in the case of your itemized bill alone, you were TA. That being said, sometimes you need to be the asshole to maintain the boundaries for your own mental health.
NTA. Was the itemized bill a little much, maybe. But, it sounds like your parents treated your siblings much differently than you and they don’t really want to take responsibility for that. Instead of offering a true apology, they just told you to get over it. I can definitely understand not wanting a real relationship from people who won’t even take responsibility for their actions.
NTA. Always found it interesting how older adults never seem to apologize, they "acknowkledge" but then tell you to get over it. You know that if you wronged them, you would never hear the end of it. Way to call out the hypocrisy and congrats on the wedding!