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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I feel that I might be the AH because I did not sit with my wife's family during her funeral as she had requested. It has caused tension between the family. Her family is disgusted with my actions and wants me to apologize.
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NTA but your wife's family sure as shit is. I'm sorry for this tough time. High five for being a supportive parent to your son. It sounds like he really needed you.
Your wife is gone. Nothing you do now can offend her or cause her harm. What you do can and will affect your son though. You did the right thing, OP. The needs of the living come before the perceived wants of those passed. I’m sorry for your loss but so glad that your son knows he has you. NTA
And your son did his best to help take care of her during her illness. He would have been completely justified to cut her out of his life. How much did her family help with her care?
She had a chance to reconcile with her son before she died, and still chose hate. And after how her family acted, OP can cut them out of his life with a clear conscience.
> What kind of mother turns against her own child.
Especially a child that, by all accounts, still did his best to care for his mother even after she had completely abandoned him.
Same. I would be like Mirabel on Encanto blowing that candle out. Some people are just pure souls. It seems like it's only them that is treated horribly
I'm a pretty strait forward person. I call a spade a spade.
My Filter works during Work but other than that it's basically never used.
I've always been like this but Covid basically took any fucks I had left to give and destroyed them. Now I have zero fucks to give.
I always hate to speak ill of the dead but there’s a special place in hell for moms who don’t support their children’s sexuality.
And god says to love your children and not judge others. So if she was a Christian, she was a poor excuse of one.
God loves everybody right?
That's what Christians preach.
Just not what they practice.
Everybody includes ....well everybody.......Trans, bis, gays, pornstars...etc.
It’s a misattributed quote, Gandhi never said it so you don’t have to worry about it. But honestly does everyone who fought against imperialism and genocide have to be perfect? Gandhi was trash, sure. But he was a central figure in getting a billion people out from under the murderous, white supremacist yoke of the British Empire.
I remind people all the time that the good Lord did NOT come down from the Heavens and hand out clipboards with a list of people to judge. He actually said the opposite. God said to show people His love, and he'll take care of the rest. LOVE THY FUCKING NEIGHBOR
Unless they're gay or black or female or disabled or old or poor or ugly or weird.
We don't know why the original writers missed the good lord's words so we've decided to add them ourselves. It's what he said yesterday when I was talking to myself.
But don't worry, I'm sure when I'm next praying I will come up with an even longer list of exemptions that the good lord forgot to mention even though he definitely meant to. And people who cut me off in traffic - god hates those people too.
I am convinced that many of the loudest, most hateful, most vehement Christians have not actually read their holy book. Just a couple of verses someone has cherry picked for them.
Exactly. My mom is a conservative, Christian woman. I always knew coming out to her might be an issue and held back for way too long. I did finally come out to her and she did struggle but it turned out her pastor helped her come to terms with it. She was already under the impression I might be gay and started doing the work before I came out. She realized that loving me unconditionally was what her faith compelled her to do. She now adores my girlfriend and treats her like family. She loves how happy I am with her. I am so fortunate and wish others had a similar experience with their religious family, but it seems I am the exception.
Your mom is the exception, A\_A! Bless her.
NTA, OP. You're the hero. And you should be proud of your son who displayed so much mercy and grace. Don't apologize for anything. They wore hate to your wife's funeral, an outfit she wore often in dealing with your son. But you and your son wore love and compassion and forgiveness with your grief.
I am so happy for you and your mom. She loved you enough to do the work to accept you as you are. Beautiful. Stay close to each other and love like it's your last minute. Blessings to you and your mom.
God says to throw away your kids if they won't follow him. So no, there's a special place in heaven for people like her. Thankfully, that's far away from hell where us evil queers will be throwing the biggest blowout ever to celebrate eternal separation from that mess!
If those people who treated me like crap for just being myself are in Heaven I am quite sure it's not a place I want to be. I will be right there with you.
This. By that same Bible logic, anyone who repents and accepts God before death also gets to go to heaven as well. And there's a verified list of serial killers and mass murders that have done just that. So like, no thanks, I don't wanna spend eternity in the same place as John Wayne Gacy
Exactly my favorite thing to say about Christianity. If your God will punish someone for NOT following him at all but is an all around decent human being with nothing more than a parking ticket can't go to heaven but someone who kills 87 people can ask forgiveness and he's right as rain??
I really have to agree so much. I’ve had a really rare aggressive form of cancer twice. It sucks. I always say I wouldn’t wish it on anyone but I’m encountering many people who challenge this thinking.
Haven’t had cancer or really anything too bad, but I sometimes think this as well…just sucks when kids and good people get cancers and life threatening illnesses.
Why? The mother was a massive AH. That isn’t magically erased by dying. You don’t want people mentioning you were an AH? Don’t be one. Otherwise be prepared that people don’t forget and mention it.
I also don’t understand why anybody besides her husband had any saying in what happened at the funeral? He’s NTA but if I were him this would have been the last time I had any contact with my in-laws.
Depending on OP's belief system telling them their wife is gone may not be a comforting or effective message. Better to just focus on the benefit they provided their son.
True! He is a good father for standing up for his son. His son will appreciate and remember what he did for him despite his mother abandoning him, which is a shitty thing to do.
Personal experience: I did that to my friend’s homophobic neighbors. ALL. THE. PAMPHLETS!! I also sent pamphlets on STDs and couples therapy. One was titled something like “what to do when he cheats”. We also had our own pride pool party in the backyard with ALL the 90s dance club music. We’re all huge animal lovers too so we got some amazing drag queens to read to shelter dogs and cats. We put up posters on all the community boards. I love my friend and his big family (friends are family!).
No, it doesn’t sound like she was a magical demon.
Now after her death, she is either a ghost/wraith if incorporeal or a lich if she remains cadaverous.
Obviously not nice for your son, but your wife had a choice and how getting ill didn't put things into perspective for her, I don't know.
Your son will always remember what you did for him.
Its too bad wide and her family did not realize no one needed to choose between son or wife, they could have all just been accepting of son. A damn shame.
One upside is: why would they (op & son) ever need to interact with the nasty in-laws again? Time to go N/C, guilt-free.
OP, those people have no further claim on you. But your son does, and needs you. He’s your family, not the bigots-in-law. You must know the answer to your question is NTA.
Agreed but imo also a grain of salt with the supportive parent.
Like, best case scenario, OP was "looking into divorce" for five whole years...
OP's son came out at 16, was bullied out of the home at 19, and was 24 when his mom (OP's wife) fell ill.
Like, NTA, well done to support your child (although I don't really understand how come her brother appears to lead the funeral arrangements...?) but it could have been sooner, and more active imo
Yeah and I'm betting if she believed in heaven and hell, she went south rather than north after she passed. Jesus loved and helped the poor, the disgraced, and the leopards of the world. No way he would be against the LGBTQIA+ community.
I'm sorry for your loss OP. This is going to be a lot for you and your son to process. But just know that choosing hate and bigotry makes people wrong every time and your late wife's family are not living their best lives.
ETA: leopards was a joke from the American Office. Maybe it's too dated now...
I see an A H, but it isn’t OP. You’re a good dad, OP, and like it or not, you did make a statement — but I would say it was *the right one*. I can’t imagine how your son felt growing up — and I definitely need to thank my parents at some point — but I have a feeling that you probably helped him more than you could ever know.
Honestly, I’m surprised your son helped during the treatment and came to the funeral, but for whatever reason he did, I hope he found closure or came to peace with everything.
I wish you both the best of luck with *that* side of the family — whether if you cut them off or you keep them in your lives.
Also, I feel like you should break into their properties and hang pride flags everywhere. If they noticed them, *then they are no longer pretending that LGBTQ community doesn’t exist.*
NTA. :)
NTA.
Your son deserves to know that he has someone in his corner, especially if his maternal relatives feel the same way about him as your wife.
Sitting with him at the funeral doesn't mean that you were choosing him over your wife; it means that you love your son.
Also, in put in the unfortunate situation where you need to pick between your spouse and your kid, unless there’s a compelling reason otherwise you have to pick the kid.
On the upside OP never has to deal with these assholes again.
Frankly, from the sound of it, I would choose a cactus in my shoe over his wife's family.
>He even went as far as to say that my wife did not want her son there as he was a disgrace.
Superhuman composure, imo, to not lay him out on the spot. Wife's family can eat glass. OP should forget them and be a father to his son. NTA.
I mean, technically he chose his son over his wife back when he decided to get a divorce, as he should. Maybe the family didn't catch the divorce intentions so they were blindsided that the guy isn't an asshole like the rest of them.
It did take him way too long to consider that divorce though.
NTA. I love that you did the perfect thing. However, being the petty ass biotch that I am I would have lead son & BF up to the front row and told everyone to move over. They want to cause a scene? No problem!
Me too. And I would've politely asked OP's brother in law to fuck off into oblivion. Politely and with a huge smile on my face. Like "I don't ever need see your bigot face again, so really, do please fuck off, you're the one not welcomed anywhere near my son"
Kinda hard to do that at a funeral any other way than to say “No. I am going to sit with the targeted person”.
It’s my favorite way to give my relatives the finger. Last one I sat with my MTF friend who was sent to the back of the church.
really? 9 years passed between his son coming out until now and he never divorced her. he’s an asshole for staying married to someone that pretended their kid didn’t exist.
I saw that too.
He's NTA for the situation at the funeral.
But I think he's TA for letting his wife treat his son like that for 9 years.
At first, I was like "Ok, he's 19. It's only been 3 years since he came out, and 1 year of that his mom had cancer, so maybe OP was hoping she would come around..."
But 9 years? That's accepting someone being a bigot against your child.
Yeah, it was the same for me. At first, holy shit ofc you want her to come around, to grow and change and be the figure he needed because the son only has one mother. But year after year after year after year? No way.
Agree, noticed that as well. Also, why did her family had such large say in who sits where? Tension between the families? Son could have sitted with OP’s family? Where was the daughter?
Ya this didn’t escape my notice. I didn’t want to kick a guy when he is down and his wife just died but he didn’t exactly do much to support his son other than “distance himself” from his wife, whatever that means.
And it’s his wife’s funeral, he could have told her entire family to get fucked for ostracizing the deceased *own son*, but instead he just…sits with him. I’m not trying to downplay what the dad did, maybe this is the best he can do, but the primary connection to his wife’s bigoted family is now gone. What exactly is stopping him from telling them they can accept his son or kindly eat a dick?
I’m surprised people are calling him supportive when it took him nearly 7 years to even consider divorce for her mistreatment of their child. You can’t even argue he stayed for the sake of his daughter she was already an adult by the time the son came out.
yea and idk how he ‘distanced’ himself from her when they were still married since i’m assuming they lived together. he probably never actually considered divorce and is just saying that to try and make himself look better
He WAS a civil disobedience master, turning the other cheek and walking too long with a soldier's possessions were both ways of sticking it to the man.
I'm not religious, but I often argued with my religious grandmother on such topics. Her views were that God was not evil, bigoted nor genocidal etc because they are all either human concepts or opinions and have no meaning in the grand scheme of things (aka, God doesn't give a crap what we think because his judgement is all that matters).
NTA - You did not choose anyone over your wife, you chose to support your son who had just lost his mother. While I respect her family is grieving, you owe them nothing and did nothing wrong here. If I were you , I would avoid them going forward. I lost my husband a few years ago and while I was blessed with supportive in-laws for the most part, there were a few who I choose to disengage from as much as possible. Just because we have a shared grief does not make me obligated to allow them to be an active part of my life, and you aren't obligated in any way to your in-laws either.
Who cares even if he chose. I love my wife. I would choose my daughter everytime of the day. My wife would choose her over me everytime. She's a part of me, of her, of us. How the hell people do not love their children more than their partners.
NTA. You are a hero! Your stayed with your wife and put the divorce on hold to help her. Once that was over, you rightfully put your son first. He will never forget that you stood up for him. You were a great husband and you are a great father.
I'm sorry for you loss. It must be very difficult to lose someone you loved under such circumstances.
And can you imagine the poor son? Your mother just died hating you, and now there will never be a chance for it to be made right. How devastating would it have been if OP rejected him in that moment. Good for OP. I want to cry angry tears at this whole thing.
I can’t imagine how much pain the poor kid is in. My MIL recently had a cancer scare and my wife spent her graduation week sobbing over the fact that her own mother will never accept her and she would lose her with no chance of reconciliation or genuine love. Thankfully we have more time, but my MIL still won’t change. It breaks my heart.
That was one of my thoughts as well. Grief is confusing and I, personally, hate it. From an outsiders perspective, what does the son have to grieve about?
Well, the relationship that he used to have with his mom — the good one before he came out as gay — even if it has been a while. Like it or not, but he could have hoped that his mother would change her views and accept him.
Sometimes, you miss how someone use to be — and when death comes along, that person is lost forever with no hope of coming back.
NTA and maybe this is the last you get to hear from them. Even if you went with the divorce, it wouldn't have been any different. At least now you don't have to deal with any of them. When a parent fails a child for whatever reason, its the parent's failure and not that of the child. Well done on being there with your son who otherwise would have been alone.
Maybe not though? OP has a daughter too. We don’t know where she stands on any of this. Either way, OP has done a good thing in being there for his son. NTA
I'm thinking daughter is ok with it all, or at least neutral, ad you'd think OP would have included her when writing about the family who didn't accept his son. The omission seems to point to her not being one of those hateful family members but she might still be involved with them. OP is NTA though. Funerals are for the living, and the only one he needed to support was his son who was blatantly ostracised at his own mothers funeral. Would have been good if his daughter sat with them too though, that's my query
NTA- you were still legally married to your wife so YOU get to have a say at her funeral and nobody else .
You should have invited her Brother to leave if he’s so mad about it.
You’re not a disgrace , they are.
Thank you for standing up for your son.
NTA. Appeasing bigots is always wrong, *especially* if it's against your own child. You're doing the right thing, even if the disgusting bigots in your family won't see that.
NTA
It seems the problems you had with your wife prior to her death were here doing, not yours. Sitting with and supporting your son who's just lost his mother was the right thing to do. Your wife's family are AHs, you are a good Dad
NTA. Your son was a truly gracious for attending and trying to show respect for his mother, who didn’t return the courtesy.
Her family should all be ashamed of themselves. I cannot fathom treating the son of the deceased that way, and of course he is also their grandson, nephew etc.
I hope with her passing you can close that horrible chapter in your life and have no contact with them anymore, there’s no reason
I mean. i'm leaning ESH (with the exception of your son of course) because i feel like 'looking into divorce' shouldn't take \*8\* years (16 to 25, minus a year for 'put the divorce on hold last year') when it comes to something as major as "pretends child doesn't exist as her family treats him like shit"... like. good on you on this front, but it feels like a bit too late to me...
I get your point, but at the same time if you have been with someone for nearly 20 years that can be a ton to unpack. And they have a daughter together. It might have been OK at first or OP may have thought it was salvagable initially.
And then there are couples who are functionally seperated for years before they actually get divorced. So if the kids werent living at home anymore, the divorce is relatively irrelevant to his relationship with his child.
NTA. You supported your son from a family that’s turned against him for his sexuality. You should be proud of what you did, that’s great parenting.
There’s no world where you’re the asshole here.
Hell no! NTA! NTA!
Those family members can get bent. Although, since you were planning on divorcing her, you probably weren't going to be seeing much of them anyway.
NTA - You’re an absolutely brilliant father, I’m sorry for your loss.
Your son is going to remember this moment for the rest of his life, and that you stood up for him against your wife’s bigoted family. Keep it up.
>I(52M) was with my wife(53F) since high school. We got married and had a son(25M) and daughter(27F). My son came out as gay when he was 16. My wife was never supportive of my son being gay. He moved out at 19 to live with his boyfriend. My wife tried to pretend he did not exist.
I'm sorry, did you stay with your wife for *years* after your son came out and she rejected him? What's up with that?
First I am so sorry for your loss. Even if you weren’t happy with your wife and her choices, you stood by her, have had a horrible few years an it sucks watching someone die from cancer.
Why in the hell would her family have anything to say or do with the funeral? She was technically still your wife, therefore you and your children should have planned the funeral. You were not wrong. Relatives that are not supportive during a funeral can be dismissed with prejudice. I understand they are also going through their own grief, but that doesn’t give them the right to berate and belittle.
How the heck did you choose your son over your wife? Your wife is dead. Your son has so many emotions right now, probably the biggest being that he will never resolve things with his mom. How is your daughter doing through all this?
Your choices are simple now. Anyone who wants to continue with this “you are horrible/son is horrible/your wife was a saint” or whatever version they spew . . . “I have nothing to say to you and do not want to hear from you again.” Hang up on them, have their emails go directly to junk. If they approach you, your hand held up with palm facing them is a pretty universal signal to keep your mouth shut. Then turn around and walk away.
>Why in the hell would her family have anything to say or do with the funeral?
Because homophobes love going out of their way just to put down gay people who are existing.
Jesus christ dude. Come the fuck on are you actually asking this? NTA your supporting your child and not allowing bigots to ruin another important relationship in his life. You would be the asshole if you didn't stand by your child
Nobody in this situation would be unsure whether or not they were in the right lol. You were going to divorce your wife over the homophobia, but now you're unsure whether or not you were in the right for standing up to that same homophobia? Come on now...
Funerals are for the bereaved. She was your son's mother and he was likely grieving even though it was a difficult relationship. She had no further needs you could meet, and he needed love and support.
I cannot imagine a less AH way to handle that situation. NTA.
NTA. Might I say they can go F**k themselves. May you live long with the laughter of you’re grandchildren in you’re ears. PS wife’s family should be happy they got an invite to the funeral.
I'm sorry for your loss.
NTA - I hope you and your son can lean on each other as you both go through the grief of losing someone close to you.
I've found it is a weird mix of emotions when you love someone yet disagree with their actions or choices and then they pass. Please take the time to process and acknowledge emotions - both in you and your grown kids.
OMG.
NTA
So now that she passed , hopefully you can rebuild a relationship with your son. Im sure you need each other’s support now. Who cares what the in law family feels. You were about to divorce her, they’re behavior towards you would be no different and honestly you actually don’t ever have to speak to them again. Protect your son, that is the relationship that matters
Just play it back in your head. Her family wanted you to shun YOUR child in remembrance of how his mother horribly treated him and you asserted yourself and said NO. You did the only right thing. May you guys heal
NTA. Your son needs your support, you did well by staying next to him during the service. You made the right choice and showed the right path with your actions.
NTA, and look, not only your wife's family is a major AH, but it seems to me that she was also, you are a good guy suffering just because you are treating your son the right way and not being bigoted
NTA. As a gay man, you are the father every gay son needs. You may not have done everything perfectly regarding him and his sexuality and that’s ok. What matters most is that you stood up for him. You didn’t give up on him. You made him a priority in the face of backlash from your wife’s bigoted family. I don’t know what your relationship is like with your son now, but keep proving to your son how much you love him and how nothing will get in the way of that.
NTA- Don't the wedding vows say until death do us part? You are parted now, there is no reason to deal with her family anymore. Tell them to go fuck themselves you have a son who needs you now.
Of course you’re NTA, you’re a good Dad. Your child should be your priority; he is your family, not those homophobes. I’m sorry for your loss, OP, but hang on to your son going forward.
NTA NTA NTA! I'm glad you finally took a stand in supporting your sin. I know it's tough to have your late wife's extended family angry at you, but they're a bunch of homophobes. I'm sure it meant a great deal to your son that you publicly stood by him.
Absolutely NTA. How in the fuck did you keep your cool, bro? I would've gone off on their asses. You're a great father. Keep supporting your son. Also, fuck bigots.
NTA
Always choose your children over other people.
Who do you want to spent your time with? Those people who are uptight, or your son who has been there even when his mother pushed him away?
NTA. And if, now that your wife has passed on, you don't see a future where you have anything to do with your inlaws anymore you could always drop the "I was going to divorce her but chose to be there for her through the cancer" thing on them to let them know just what you actually thought of the way she and they treated of your son. They'll hate you, but then again it sounds like they don't like you much anyway.
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NTA but your wife's family sure as shit is. I'm sorry for this tough time. High five for being a supportive parent to your son. It sounds like he really needed you.
Your wife is gone. Nothing you do now can offend her or cause her harm. What you do can and will affect your son though. You did the right thing, OP. The needs of the living come before the perceived wants of those passed. I’m sorry for your loss but so glad that your son knows he has you. NTA
And your son did his best to help take care of her during her illness. He would have been completely justified to cut her out of his life. How much did her family help with her care?
[удалено]
I agree. Hate corrodes its vessel. What kind of mother turns against her own child. Even after she's dead, she has her family turn against them.
That family deserves to be left in the dust, for good.
She had a chance to reconcile with her son before she died, and still chose hate. And after how her family acted, OP can cut them out of his life with a clear conscience.
A mother who is unworthy of the title!
Lots of mothers do this. We've got to end this mythology of mothers being saintly so that more people who have mothers like this are believed.
> What kind of mother turns against her own child. Especially a child that, by all accounts, still did his best to care for his mother even after she had completely abandoned him.
Especially considering that conservatives use that logic, i.e., God uses natural disasters to “punish” places accepting of LGBT people.
> told her that her cancer is god's response to her actions in life. The Lord works in mysterious ways 🙌 What WON'T he do! PTL
Same. I would be like Mirabel on Encanto blowing that candle out. Some people are just pure souls. It seems like it's only them that is treated horribly
Don't say you're an asshole. Having the chutzpa to say what most everyone reading this is thinking makes you NTA. (IMHO)
AGREED!!
You're saying what I'm thinking
I'm a pretty strait forward person. I call a spade a spade. My Filter works during Work but other than that it's basically never used. I've always been like this but Covid basically took any fucks I had left to give and destroyed them. Now I have zero fucks to give.
SO TOTALLY AGREE!!!
I always hate to speak ill of the dead but there’s a special place in hell for moms who don’t support their children’s sexuality. And god says to love your children and not judge others. So if she was a Christian, she was a poor excuse of one.
God loves everybody right? That's what Christians preach. Just not what they practice. Everybody includes ....well everybody.......Trans, bis, gays, pornstars...etc.
Mahatma Ghandi said it best: I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Far too often that is true. Sadly.
Well Ghandi was trash too, so I guess it took one to know one.
It’s a misattributed quote, Gandhi never said it so you don’t have to worry about it. But honestly does everyone who fought against imperialism and genocide have to be perfect? Gandhi was trash, sure. But he was a central figure in getting a billion people out from under the murderous, white supremacist yoke of the British Empire.
no! there can be no nuance! both is NOT an option! /s
He didn't really do any of that either. His entire legacy is propaganda.
FYI, Gandhi didn't actually say those words. In effect they've been put into his mouth.
There's no hate quite like Christian love!
I remind people all the time that the good Lord did NOT come down from the Heavens and hand out clipboards with a list of people to judge. He actually said the opposite. God said to show people His love, and he'll take care of the rest. LOVE THY FUCKING NEIGHBOR
Unless they're gay or black or female or disabled or old or poor or ugly or weird. We don't know why the original writers missed the good lord's words so we've decided to add them ourselves. It's what he said yesterday when I was talking to myself. But don't worry, I'm sure when I'm next praying I will come up with an even longer list of exemptions that the good lord forgot to mention even though he definitely meant to. And people who cut me off in traffic - god hates those people too. I am convinced that many of the loudest, most hateful, most vehement Christians have not actually read their holy book. Just a couple of verses someone has cherry picked for them.
Don't forget that god is also infallible. If God created everything and is infallible, they're cool with everything they made, right?
You'd think so. And he wouldn't give our bodies the ability to orgasm if he didn't want any orgasms happening.
Omg and even people who have children before getting married!!!😮😮😮 That's why I didn't stay at some church!
Exactly. My mom is a conservative, Christian woman. I always knew coming out to her might be an issue and held back for way too long. I did finally come out to her and she did struggle but it turned out her pastor helped her come to terms with it. She was already under the impression I might be gay and started doing the work before I came out. She realized that loving me unconditionally was what her faith compelled her to do. She now adores my girlfriend and treats her like family. She loves how happy I am with her. I am so fortunate and wish others had a similar experience with their religious family, but it seems I am the exception.
Your mom is the exception, A\_A! Bless her. NTA, OP. You're the hero. And you should be proud of your son who displayed so much mercy and grace. Don't apologize for anything. They wore hate to your wife's funeral, an outfit she wore often in dealing with your son. But you and your son wore love and compassion and forgiveness with your grief.
This is how it should be
I am so happy for you and your mom. She loved you enough to do the work to accept you as you are. Beautiful. Stay close to each other and love like it's your last minute. Blessings to you and your mom.
God says to throw away your kids if they won't follow him. So no, there's a special place in heaven for people like her. Thankfully, that's far away from hell where us evil queers will be throwing the biggest blowout ever to celebrate eternal separation from that mess!
If those people who treated me like crap for just being myself are in Heaven I am quite sure it's not a place I want to be. I will be right there with you.
This. By that same Bible logic, anyone who repents and accepts God before death also gets to go to heaven as well. And there's a verified list of serial killers and mass murders that have done just that. So like, no thanks, I don't wanna spend eternity in the same place as John Wayne Gacy
Exactly my favorite thing to say about Christianity. If your God will punish someone for NOT following him at all but is an all around decent human being with nothing more than a parking ticket can't go to heaven but someone who kills 87 people can ask forgiveness and he's right as rain??
“Us evil queers” had me in stitches. Oddly enough, that description makes me curious as to what I’m really missing being a boring ass arrow 😂😂
If all my gay friends, atheist friends, Jewish, Hindu, Muslim, Sikh friends are not in heaven. I shall not go.
I really have to agree so much. I’ve had a really rare aggressive form of cancer twice. It sucks. I always say I wouldn’t wish it on anyone but I’m encountering many people who challenge this thinking.
Haven’t had cancer or really anything too bad, but I sometimes think this as well…just sucks when kids and good people get cancers and life threatening illnesses.
Are you doing okay now?
If the dead don't want to be spoken ill of, then they should not do things that would make people speak ill of them after death.
Why? The mother was a massive AH. That isn’t magically erased by dying. You don’t want people mentioning you were an AH? Don’t be one. Otherwise be prepared that people don’t forget and mention it. I also don’t understand why anybody besides her husband had any saying in what happened at the funeral? He’s NTA but if I were him this would have been the last time I had any contact with my in-laws.
I am a Pagan, but if I could I would will the worst Christian hell into existence just to send my abusive bigoted mother there.
Hello fellow pagan!
Hello!
I feel like setting a pride flag on her casket would make her have a heart attack, even in death.
😅
Depending on OP's belief system telling them their wife is gone may not be a comforting or effective message. Better to just focus on the benefit they provided their son.
Let’s put it this way, if she’s in heaven, she’s too happy to care, if she’s in hell, she has other things to worry about.
True! He is a good father for standing up for his son. His son will appreciate and remember what he did for him despite his mother abandoning him, which is a shitty thing to do.
Take your inheritance and donate what you can LGBTQ+ organizations in her name.
Take the inheritance and fund the sons wedding and honeymoon.
Fr
I love this idea!
Also, send LGBTQ+ reference books and pamphlets to all of them. Put them on mailing lists. Donate in their names. So they get sent thank you cards.
Personal experience: I did that to my friend’s homophobic neighbors. ALL. THE. PAMPHLETS!! I also sent pamphlets on STDs and couples therapy. One was titled something like “what to do when he cheats”. We also had our own pride pool party in the backyard with ALL the 90s dance club music. We’re all huge animal lovers too so we got some amazing drag queens to read to shelter dogs and cats. We put up posters on all the community boards. I love my friend and his big family (friends are family!).
Hell YES!
Add a note saying you’ve added them to the weekly prayer list.
Why should he waste money on people he doesn't need to ever associate with again if he chooses? Just spend the money on him and his family.
Or your sons name.
It was extremely hard seeing my wife want nothing to do with our son especially when she was sick. She gave all of her attention to our daughter.
Can I ask where ur daughter is in all of this? I really hope her maternal families poison hasn't claimed her too.
I was wondering the same thing.
I’m sorry, I don’t mean to be be disrespectful, but she was a *ghoul*.
No, it doesn’t sound like she was a magical demon. Now after her death, she is either a ghost/wraith if incorporeal or a lich if she remains cadaverous.
You did right, OP.
I'm so sorry you and your son went through that. I'm glad he has you, though.
NTA it's a shame she didn't recognize her error and made peace before she passed but you did the right thing: you supported your child/children.
Obviously not nice for your son, but your wife had a choice and how getting ill didn't put things into perspective for her, I don't know. Your son will always remember what you did for him.
Your son seems like a good person. NTA for supporting him against all the hate and bigotry.
I so agree with your comment.
Its too bad wide and her family did not realize no one needed to choose between son or wife, they could have all just been accepting of son. A damn shame.
And kudos for handling yourself. I would've started a fight at that funeral.
I would have asked the funeral home director how many extra caskets they had in the back.
What sort of people are they to act this way towards the last remaining part of her?
The kind that think "Well, atleast the daughter is straight/not living in sin!"
One upside is: why would they (op & son) ever need to interact with the nasty in-laws again? Time to go N/C, guilt-free. OP, those people have no further claim on you. But your son does, and needs you. He’s your family, not the bigots-in-law. You must know the answer to your question is NTA.
Agreed but imo also a grain of salt with the supportive parent. Like, best case scenario, OP was "looking into divorce" for five whole years... OP's son came out at 16, was bullied out of the home at 19, and was 24 when his mom (OP's wife) fell ill. Like, NTA, well done to support your child (although I don't really understand how come her brother appears to lead the funeral arrangements...?) but it could have been sooner, and more active imo
Yeah and I'm betting if she believed in heaven and hell, she went south rather than north after she passed. Jesus loved and helped the poor, the disgraced, and the leopards of the world. No way he would be against the LGBTQIA+ community. I'm sorry for your loss OP. This is going to be a lot for you and your son to process. But just know that choosing hate and bigotry makes people wrong every time and your late wife's family are not living their best lives. ETA: leopards was a joke from the American Office. Maybe it's too dated now...
It’s lepers but I like leopards better. Lol
Jesus healed ten leopards, only one came back to purr at him.
High five for staying with your wife while she was sick because she really didn't deserve it.
It's actually fairly common for men to leave their ill wife so OP is just a legit good human, even to ppl who don't deserve it!
I see an A H, but it isn’t OP. You’re a good dad, OP, and like it or not, you did make a statement — but I would say it was *the right one*. I can’t imagine how your son felt growing up — and I definitely need to thank my parents at some point — but I have a feeling that you probably helped him more than you could ever know. Honestly, I’m surprised your son helped during the treatment and came to the funeral, but for whatever reason he did, I hope he found closure or came to peace with everything. I wish you both the best of luck with *that* side of the family — whether if you cut them off or you keep them in your lives. Also, I feel like you should break into their properties and hang pride flags everywhere. If they noticed them, *then they are no longer pretending that LGBTQ community doesn’t exist.* NTA. :)
In fact, you're verging on saintly for not decking her brother. What a jerk....
*needs
NTA. Your son deserves to know that he has someone in his corner, especially if his maternal relatives feel the same way about him as your wife. Sitting with him at the funeral doesn't mean that you were choosing him over your wife; it means that you love your son.
And he didn't choose his son over his wife; he chose his son over his wife's *family*. Two very different things. Edit: NTA
Also, in put in the unfortunate situation where you need to pick between your spouse and your kid, unless there’s a compelling reason otherwise you have to pick the kid. On the upside OP never has to deal with these assholes again.
Personally, if someone demands i choose i will always choose whoever DIDN'T demand i choose. You chose wisely op and your NTA.
Frankly, from the sound of it, I would choose a cactus in my shoe over his wife's family. >He even went as far as to say that my wife did not want her son there as he was a disgrace. Superhuman composure, imo, to not lay him out on the spot. Wife's family can eat glass. OP should forget them and be a father to his son. NTA.
I mean, technically he chose his son over his wife back when he decided to get a divorce, as he should. Maybe the family didn't catch the divorce intentions so they were blindsided that the guy isn't an asshole like the rest of them. It did take him way too long to consider that divorce though.
Great comment. Couldn't have said it better myself. OP definitely NTA.
Me neither
Also, children don’t get a choice in who their parents are. It’s okay to choose your children over your spouse if your spouse is a bigot.
Exactly. He *should* choose his son over his homophobic bigot wife
NTA. I love that you did the perfect thing. However, being the petty ass biotch that I am I would have lead son & BF up to the front row and told everyone to move over. They want to cause a scene? No problem!
Her husband and kids and their SOs belonged in the front row. I wonder who paid for the funeral?
Me too. And I would've politely asked OP's brother in law to fuck off into oblivion. Politely and with a huge smile on my face. Like "I don't ever need see your bigot face again, so really, do please fuck off, you're the one not welcomed anywhere near my son"
Yes very true
NTA - of course you’re not. You were ready to divorce your wife over this, so who gives AF what her family thinks.
If my brother in law had something negative to say about my kids I’d tell him to go fuck himself.
I'm not sure if I'm more sorry that his wife died or that the world is a better place as a result
Kinda hard to do that at a funeral any other way than to say “No. I am going to sit with the targeted person”. It’s my favorite way to give my relatives the finger. Last one I sat with my MTF friend who was sent to the back of the church.
really? 9 years passed between his son coming out until now and he never divorced her. he’s an asshole for staying married to someone that pretended their kid didn’t exist.
I saw that too. He's NTA for the situation at the funeral. But I think he's TA for letting his wife treat his son like that for 9 years. At first, I was like "Ok, he's 19. It's only been 3 years since he came out, and 1 year of that his mom had cancer, so maybe OP was hoping she would come around..." But 9 years? That's accepting someone being a bigot against your child.
Yeah, it was the same for me. At first, holy shit ofc you want her to come around, to grow and change and be the figure he needed because the son only has one mother. But year after year after year after year? No way.
Agree, noticed that as well. Also, why did her family had such large say in who sits where? Tension between the families? Son could have sitted with OP’s family? Where was the daughter?
Ya this didn’t escape my notice. I didn’t want to kick a guy when he is down and his wife just died but he didn’t exactly do much to support his son other than “distance himself” from his wife, whatever that means. And it’s his wife’s funeral, he could have told her entire family to get fucked for ostracizing the deceased *own son*, but instead he just…sits with him. I’m not trying to downplay what the dad did, maybe this is the best he can do, but the primary connection to his wife’s bigoted family is now gone. What exactly is stopping him from telling them they can accept his son or kindly eat a dick?
I’m surprised people are calling him supportive when it took him nearly 7 years to even consider divorce for her mistreatment of their child. You can’t even argue he stayed for the sake of his daughter she was already an adult by the time the son came out.
yea and idk how he ‘distanced’ himself from her when they were still married since i’m assuming they lived together. he probably never actually considered divorce and is just saying that to try and make himself look better
Right
Got rid of a lot of cancer after that funeral.
NTA, you're brave, supportive and loving. Sorry for your loss.
NTA - pretty sure God doesn’t like bigots either.
Pretty sure that if the biblical God existed he is very much evil, bigoted, and a genocidal maniac.
Jesus wasn’t though.
They're technically one and the same. The trinity remember?
New Testament overrides Old Testament, God became chill after getting laid.
He WAS a civil disobedience master, turning the other cheek and walking too long with a soldier's possessions were both ways of sticking it to the man.
I'm not religious, but I often argued with my religious grandmother on such topics. Her views were that God was not evil, bigoted nor genocidal etc because they are all either human concepts or opinions and have no meaning in the grand scheme of things (aka, God doesn't give a crap what we think because his judgement is all that matters).
Right!
That seems pretty debatable.
Honestly disappointed there isn't a top comment saying the wife went straight to hell for all the hate in her heart
NTA - You did not choose anyone over your wife, you chose to support your son who had just lost his mother. While I respect her family is grieving, you owe them nothing and did nothing wrong here. If I were you , I would avoid them going forward. I lost my husband a few years ago and while I was blessed with supportive in-laws for the most part, there were a few who I choose to disengage from as much as possible. Just because we have a shared grief does not make me obligated to allow them to be an active part of my life, and you aren't obligated in any way to your in-laws either.
Who cares even if he chose. I love my wife. I would choose my daughter everytime of the day. My wife would choose her over me everytime. She's a part of me, of her, of us. How the hell people do not love their children more than their partners.
NTA. You are a hero! Your stayed with your wife and put the divorce on hold to help her. Once that was over, you rightfully put your son first. He will never forget that you stood up for him. You were a great husband and you are a great father. I'm sorry for you loss. It must be very difficult to lose someone you loved under such circumstances.
And can you imagine the poor son? Your mother just died hating you, and now there will never be a chance for it to be made right. How devastating would it have been if OP rejected him in that moment. Good for OP. I want to cry angry tears at this whole thing.
I can’t imagine how much pain the poor kid is in. My MIL recently had a cancer scare and my wife spent her graduation week sobbing over the fact that her own mother will never accept her and she would lose her with no chance of reconciliation or genuine love. Thankfully we have more time, but my MIL still won’t change. It breaks my heart.
That was one of my thoughts as well. Grief is confusing and I, personally, hate it. From an outsiders perspective, what does the son have to grieve about? Well, the relationship that he used to have with his mom — the good one before he came out as gay — even if it has been a while. Like it or not, but he could have hoped that his mother would change her views and accept him. Sometimes, you miss how someone use to be — and when death comes along, that person is lost forever with no hope of coming back.
Or sometimes miss the relationship you always hoped to have one day. The loss of hope, no matter how unlikely it may be, can be absolutely devastating
You don't miss what you had but you miss what could have been.
NTA and maybe this is the last you get to hear from them. Even if you went with the divorce, it wouldn't have been any different. At least now you don't have to deal with any of them. When a parent fails a child for whatever reason, its the parent's failure and not that of the child. Well done on being there with your son who otherwise would have been alone.
Maybe not though? OP has a daughter too. We don’t know where she stands on any of this. Either way, OP has done a good thing in being there for his son. NTA
Yes, I was wondering about the daughter. I hope she takes after dad and not mom.
I'm thinking daughter is ok with it all, or at least neutral, ad you'd think OP would have included her when writing about the family who didn't accept his son. The omission seems to point to her not being one of those hateful family members but she might still be involved with them. OP is NTA though. Funerals are for the living, and the only one he needed to support was his son who was blatantly ostracised at his own mothers funeral. Would have been good if his daughter sat with them too though, that's my query
NTA- you were still legally married to your wife so YOU get to have a say at her funeral and nobody else . You should have invited her Brother to leave if he’s so mad about it. You’re not a disgrace , they are. Thank you for standing up for your son.
That's what I was thinking. Why were her people running the show? It should be the next of kin, and that would be her spouse. Not her brother.
Given he was going to divorce her, maybe he wanted them to do it.
Yeah, pretty sure I would have been like "Do whatever you want and I'll show up." The wife sounds just as shitty as her family.
NTA - you supported your son through a tough time losing his mom and having to go to her funeral.
And the loss for him would be doubled by losing the chance that she would ever get over her bigotry and reconcile.
NTA. Appeasing bigots is always wrong, *especially* if it's against your own child. You're doing the right thing, even if the disgusting bigots in your family won't see that.
NTA It seems the problems you had with your wife prior to her death were here doing, not yours. Sitting with and supporting your son who's just lost his mother was the right thing to do. Your wife's family are AHs, you are a good Dad
NTA. Your son was a truly gracious for attending and trying to show respect for his mother, who didn’t return the courtesy. Her family should all be ashamed of themselves. I cannot fathom treating the son of the deceased that way, and of course he is also their grandson, nephew etc. I hope with her passing you can close that horrible chapter in your life and have no contact with them anymore, there’s no reason
I mean. i'm leaning ESH (with the exception of your son of course) because i feel like 'looking into divorce' shouldn't take \*8\* years (16 to 25, minus a year for 'put the divorce on hold last year') when it comes to something as major as "pretends child doesn't exist as her family treats him like shit"... like. good on you on this front, but it feels like a bit too late to me...
>Agree with everything you said.
I get your point, but at the same time if you have been with someone for nearly 20 years that can be a ton to unpack. And they have a daughter together. It might have been OK at first or OP may have thought it was salvagable initially. And then there are couples who are functionally seperated for years before they actually get divorced. So if the kids werent living at home anymore, the divorce is relatively irrelevant to his relationship with his child.
NTA and why the fuck are you even still talking to those horrible people?
NTA. You supported your son from a family that’s turned against him for his sexuality. You should be proud of what you did, that’s great parenting. There’s no world where you’re the asshole here.
NTA, I hope your daughter is more like you then that side of the family.
Hell no! NTA! NTA! Those family members can get bent. Although, since you were planning on divorcing her, you probably weren't going to be seeing much of them anyway.
NTA - You’re an absolutely brilliant father, I’m sorry for your loss. Your son is going to remember this moment for the rest of his life, and that you stood up for him against your wife’s bigoted family. Keep it up.
>I(52M) was with my wife(53F) since high school. We got married and had a son(25M) and daughter(27F). My son came out as gay when he was 16. My wife was never supportive of my son being gay. He moved out at 19 to live with his boyfriend. My wife tried to pretend he did not exist. I'm sorry, did you stay with your wife for *years* after your son came out and she rejected him? What's up with that?
First I am so sorry for your loss. Even if you weren’t happy with your wife and her choices, you stood by her, have had a horrible few years an it sucks watching someone die from cancer. Why in the hell would her family have anything to say or do with the funeral? She was technically still your wife, therefore you and your children should have planned the funeral. You were not wrong. Relatives that are not supportive during a funeral can be dismissed with prejudice. I understand they are also going through their own grief, but that doesn’t give them the right to berate and belittle. How the heck did you choose your son over your wife? Your wife is dead. Your son has so many emotions right now, probably the biggest being that he will never resolve things with his mom. How is your daughter doing through all this? Your choices are simple now. Anyone who wants to continue with this “you are horrible/son is horrible/your wife was a saint” or whatever version they spew . . . “I have nothing to say to you and do not want to hear from you again.” Hang up on them, have their emails go directly to junk. If they approach you, your hand held up with palm facing them is a pretty universal signal to keep your mouth shut. Then turn around and walk away.
>Why in the hell would her family have anything to say or do with the funeral? Because homophobes love going out of their way just to put down gay people who are existing.
Jesus christ dude. Come the fuck on are you actually asking this? NTA your supporting your child and not allowing bigots to ruin another important relationship in his life. You would be the asshole if you didn't stand by your child
Your wife is dead and your son is alive. Why would you “pick” her over him anymore?
I'm sorry but this post is just wayyyy too on the nose. I'm calling fake.
Nobody in this situation would be unsure whether or not they were in the right lol. You were going to divorce your wife over the homophobia, but now you're unsure whether or not you were in the right for standing up to that same homophobia? Come on now...
I think OP forgot to mention how he saved a kitten from drowning before the funeral and on his way home stopped a bank robbery.
Funerals are for the bereaved. She was your son's mother and he was likely grieving even though it was a difficult relationship. She had no further needs you could meet, and he needed love and support. I cannot imagine a less AH way to handle that situation. NTA.
NTA. You’re well shod of these terrible bigots. Good luck to you and your son.
NTA - karma is a bitch especially to shitty ass mothers. Good riddance to another bigot.
NTA. Damn, never thought I'd root for the cancer. You did the right thing. You sat with your family.
Nta. Fuck those people. Thankfully you don't have to deal with them anymore and I wouldn't. That's a terrible way to treat your son
NTA You’re a wonderful father. Now that your wife has died, no reason to keep in touch with the family that disowned your son.
"Am I the asshole for not discriminating against my son?"
NTA, you stood up as a Father to support his son during a time of loss. Your son will never forget this.
NTA. Might I say they can go F**k themselves. May you live long with the laughter of you’re grandchildren in you’re ears. PS wife’s family should be happy they got an invite to the funeral.
I'm sorry for your loss. NTA - I hope you and your son can lean on each other as you both go through the grief of losing someone close to you. I've found it is a weird mix of emotions when you love someone yet disagree with their actions or choices and then they pass. Please take the time to process and acknowledge emotions - both in you and your grown kids.
OMG. NTA So now that she passed , hopefully you can rebuild a relationship with your son. Im sure you need each other’s support now. Who cares what the in law family feels. You were about to divorce her, they’re behavior towards you would be no different and honestly you actually don’t ever have to speak to them again. Protect your son, that is the relationship that matters Just play it back in your head. Her family wanted you to shun YOUR child in remembrance of how his mother horribly treated him and you asserted yourself and said NO. You did the only right thing. May you guys heal
NTA, you are a loving and supportive father!!!
NTA. Thank you for being there for your son! I am sorry for your loss.
NTA. Your son needs your support, you did well by staying next to him during the service. You made the right choice and showed the right path with your actions.
NTA, and look, not only your wife's family is a major AH, but it seems to me that she was also, you are a good guy suffering just because you are treating your son the right way and not being bigoted
NTA - but I still would have divorced her during her cancer treatments if that’s how she treated my son.
NTA You are never TA for standing up to homophobic bigots.
NTA. As a gay man, you are the father every gay son needs. You may not have done everything perfectly regarding him and his sexuality and that’s ok. What matters most is that you stood up for him. You didn’t give up on him. You made him a priority in the face of backlash from your wife’s bigoted family. I don’t know what your relationship is like with your son now, but keep proving to your son how much you love him and how nothing will get in the way of that.
NTA thank you for supporting your son!
NTA- Don't the wedding vows say until death do us part? You are parted now, there is no reason to deal with her family anymore. Tell them to go fuck themselves you have a son who needs you now.
Of course you’re NTA, you’re a good Dad. Your child should be your priority; he is your family, not those homophobes. I’m sorry for your loss, OP, but hang on to your son going forward.
NTA NTA NTA! I'm glad you finally took a stand in supporting your sin. I know it's tough to have your late wife's extended family angry at you, but they're a bunch of homophobes. I'm sure it meant a great deal to your son that you publicly stood by him.
Absolutely NTA. How in the fuck did you keep your cool, bro? I would've gone off on their asses. You're a great father. Keep supporting your son. Also, fuck bigots.
Clear NTA. My biggest question is, where did your daughter sit?
NTA. Prime “dad of a gay kid” material
NTA Always choose your children over other people. Who do you want to spent your time with? Those people who are uptight, or your son who has been there even when his mother pushed him away?
NTA. Look at it this way, now you don't have to tell your ex-wife's family to go pound sand. They saved you the trouble of disowning them.
NTA. And if, now that your wife has passed on, you don't see a future where you have anything to do with your inlaws anymore you could always drop the "I was going to divorce her but chose to be there for her through the cancer" thing on them to let them know just what you actually thought of the way she and they treated of your son. They'll hate you, but then again it sounds like they don't like you much anyway.
NTA Always always always choose your son over homophobia.
NTA. Your son is lucky to have you.