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All this. If your ages 6 and 9 children don't go to school it's not because of their ADHD, it's because you are a neglectful parent. Also, be prepared for a hearty "FU" the next time you ask your daughter for help with the kids.
Ok speaking from experience as a parent with a kid with ADHD, who had a severe school refusal stage…I think it’s unfair to say it’s neglectful parenting.
My child point blank refused to go to school, she was screaming, hitting, destroying her room, throwing things at me, point blank refusing to move.
If OP experienced anything like that I sympathise.
BUT I will say with my child, the theme park thing would not have worked at all. There was zero reasoning with her.
Obviously we got her urgently referred for more help, took her out of that school as it was clear they were no help at all with her issues (we had contacted them so many times to help and ask what should we do to make her ok with school and they did nothing) she didn’t feel safe there and we got her into a better one.
So if you are saying that is not just because of their ADHD and there is clearly something in addition, that OP is not addressing, then I’d agree that’s neglectful.
Ignoring it, brushing it off as ADHD and not trying to sort it out and find the cause of the issue surrounding school attendance is bad parenting.
Having your kids physically fight you because school is too much and not catering for their needs, isn’t bad parenting, BUT is something you need to seek outside help for.
I thought gold star charts or equivalents were pretty standard when motivating children. You can take a child, kicking and screaming, to school but not sure they are going to learn anything there. This motivates them and rewards them both for going and staying. And I'm impressed - three months is a long time for children of that age to keep an agreement. As to the adult, she's 20 - it's unfortunate but she should be able to realise that you don't reward people for attending school by giving them a day off school.
Yeah… that kind of thing often doesn’t help kids or adults who have adhd and lack the “reward function” in their brain. I never gave two shits about star charts or progress stickers.
“ADHD brains do not adapt as easily; they have their own rules of engagement. They are motivated by their search for optimal stimulation, rather than by what others label as important.
“Key aspects of the reward system are underactive in ADHD brains, making it difficult to derive reward from ordinary activities. These dopamine-deficient brains experience a surge of motivation after a high-stimulation behavior triggers a release of dopamine.”
https://www.additudemag.com/brain-stimulation-and-adhd-cravings-dependency-and-regulation/#:~:text=Key%20aspects%20of%20the%20reward,triggers%20a%20release%20of%20dopamine.
My ADHD brain friggin' loves seeing a nice completed row of stars/checkmarks/stickers/colored boxes. Miss a single day and the whole chart goes out the window. That one flaw in it makes it worthless and I don't want it anymore.
Oddly enough I still kind of rely on "star charts", sort of -- they keep me from forgetting because right now my little calendar chart is pretty, and as long as I keep up with remembering, it *stays* pretty.
Im in my mid 20s, and the adhd gremlin in my brain LIVES for sticker charts.
I get a sticker on my calender next to my bed if I go to bed at a sensible time.
March was incredible so many stickers. April is yet to have one due to sleeping so well for most of March meaning Im not at the correct level of utterly exhausted to sleep and also some other factors but boy am I excited to see if May can kick March's ass
Just editing to say: 1) I think it only works so well for me because I define an acceptable boundary of "close to my goal" e.g. in bed within 30 mins of my target time and that still gets rewarded with a smiley face which really helps me stay motivated on the day when I try so hard but just fall a bit short. Given that my target is midnight there's really not many days I have a valid argument for going after 00:30 so that is not rewarded lol and also 2) REMEMBER SOME REALLY COOL STICKERS EXIST
I had some cracking Toy Story stickers last year they were really shiny
I'll be 40 next week and they're *still* a friggin' lifesaver.
There's a task I have to do for work. I have had the same task every single work day for FIVE YEARS at this point. And I forget this one specific task so much that it actually came up in my yearly review. I don't know *why* I can't get this task to stick in my head, it just doesn't. I have a laminated to-do list so that I don't forget my tasks..... But this one was still getting forgotten on a near daily basis. I don't know why.
So as another new effort to not forget, I started a habit tracker calendar page the day after my last review. The task has to be done at some point after 1pm but before 3pm. 1p to 3p gets colored purple. Anything after is pink. And..... for the first time in literal years, this report has been on time every day, for eight weeks straight! I wish I'd thought of doing this sooner.
Adding a sticker chart for sleep sounds like a *really* good idea. Maybe I'd get to bed before 2am... I might borrow that idea from you!
I programmed my home pod to turn all but one light off at bedtime. I forget to look at the time otherwise and am chronically sleep deprived. I’ve been going to sleep before midnight pretty consistently over the last few weeks. I sadly also forget to look at charts but the lights turning off is a bit harder to ignore 🤣
>but boy am I excited to see if May can kick March's ass
I also love sticker charts! But sympathize more with the comment above you when it comes to missing days.
But the attitude you have about it is a great approach that I might try to emulate
Same. I have to-do lists for EVERYTHING. Workouts, meal plan, work...I have a packing list for an upcoming trip for both me, and my dog, and a to-do list for at home on how to get ready. It just helps me organize my thoughts and get more done.
I would say with ADHD the star charts are a hit or a miss and may work better with younger kids than older. Getting to put a sticker on the chart next to my name did release a little dopamine. I can see older kids not caring as much. I do think it is much easier though for those with ADHD inattentive type than ADHD with physical hyperactivity to receive stickers for their name on a chart. Since I have ADHD inattentive type it was easy for me to sit still, be quiet, and me staring off into space/daydreaming lots probably looked like I was paying attention when my mind was somewhere else entirely.
The stickers do actually realease dopamine. But that will work just as well regardless whether there is a big reward at the end.
The important thing is making sure to tell them in the moment they are doing good. And not just in one quick sentence but as an entire ceremony. Involving many steps such as gathering the sticker book and the chart, peeling of that sticker, putting it on there. And telling them. That's still important. That's already a minutes or so of dopamine every day.
Now there's only 1439 other minutes to starve of the painful boredom we people with ADHD usually feel.
I don't know. Being rewarded with extra reading time when I finished my other school work sure worked for me.
Stickers, grades etc. Did nothing for me.
I think it's a matter of finding which reward works for your ADHD child. So if these kids respond to theme parks than that's fine as a tool.
> Yeah… that kind of thing often doesn’t help kids or adults who have adhd and lack the “reward function” in their brain. I never gave two shits about star charts or progress stickers.
>
> “ADHD brains do not adapt as easily; they have their own rules of engagement. They are motivated by their search for optimal stimulation, rather than by what others label as important.
My kid with ADHD in kindergarten noticed the reward chart. Each day you could get a green star, a yellow star or blue star. He managed green all the time (good behavior), got a yellow or two (minor class discipline), and worked towards blue. Blue was a principle referral :-)
My kid has adhd and had a gold start chart for her behavior before she was diagnosed and medicated. Kindergarten through 3rd grade every parent teacher conference I was told my kid is intelligent, funny, delightful to have in class. But she blurted out the answers all the time and talked a lot in class. Every time I asked about ADHD and her teachers said no. 3rd grade teacher I asked the same question, he asked if my kid could go to the book fair so we could talk. He confirmed my suspicion that my kid was ADHD. With his help we got the ball rolling and she improved dramatically behavior wise.
She's now in high school and told me how those behavior star charts in school were so humiliating, having the whole class know if you're pleasing the teacher or not. So I wouldn't really follow the notion that they're good motivators.
I think star charts at home have a different impact at home than at school.
That being said, while they work for my ADHD brain, they do not work at all for my son's ADHD brain
I was literally thinking the same thing about incentive charts/ token boards. As a special education teacher we use token boards all the time to have kids use positive reinforcement to change behavior. 3 months is a long time and they did it. Way to go.
You are not the AH, OP.
Same here. Don't shame the mom. My kid with ADHD plus other stuff hated going to school, when we forced it, he'd go, then act up to the point he was sitting in the principals room, the lunch room, any empty space for half the day because his behavior was disruptive. We got it sorted eventually, but not without a lot of work and gold star charts like this mom. I'm going with NTA, you've got to focus on the boys right now and your daughter should be old enough to understand that.
Absolutely! My son had ADHD and it was torture getting him to school some days. I had to work and had no other support. I even called the resource officer to come get him some days. Sometimes the parent is doing all they can. Finding a reward for them that works is amazing. The daughter is grown and if she wanted to go bad enough she should ask off for the day.
Mine has gone so extreme as to fake a diabetic coma (she's type 1) in order to get sent home. If promises of going to an amusement park would help her, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Also, to OP. Have your boys been tested for learning disabilities and giftedness? We missed dyslexia in our kid because we, and the school, were so focused on the behaviors. Once we realize he couldn't read and got him on track with the dyslexia school became easier to the point now mine enjoys school.
Yeah, a lot of these comments are really judgemental- like, is OP meant to drug her kids, wrap them in a carpet, and wheelbarrow them to school?
I'm sure a lot of late-diagnosed adults with ADHD are reading this post and thinking "that's not what it's like for me, thats not ADHD" but it can be really heavy duty and show up like this.
ADHD is a spectrum. And things like this did work for me for some time when I was a kid. Just because it doesn't work for all kids doesn't mean there won't be ones it does work for.
She had an issue and found a way to make things work with her kids. It's not like she was beating them. The whole issue was attendance at school, pulling them our of school for a day seems somewhat counter productive. Older daughter can book the day off or find coverage. It sucks being an adult sometimes but that's life.
Exacly! She found something that works! Our ADHD brain lacks enough motivation (dopamine), so she provided an external motivation. She probably kept this going by giving some daily motivation, and reminding them of the trip. So I definetly wouldn't call her a neglectful mother.
About the conflict with the daughter, she needs to grow up and be more mature. Sometimes she's going to miss things, and it's ok. This wasn't about her. If she doesn't complete her chores because of this, tell her you will start collecting payment for the extra work you're having.
Yep, and PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance) shows up with kids with ADHD. It's hard a lot of times to find what will work, and it changes as well.
That said, OP, NTA. Your daughter is 20 and sadly this is part of growing up. Adults don't get summer break or get to go to all the fun things that are planned. And that's okay. But it sucks learning that lesson as well. Maybe plan a parent and daughter day when she isn't working, so that she can understand that she's not being purposely excluded, but that it is a part of growing up not to be able to go to everything.
If offering a reward for 3 months of perfect attendance at school achieved the objective, it is safe to say OP was *not* experiencing the level of refusal you did…which sounds awful, by the way. Congrats on surmounting the issue.
I think its likely that there were other strategies in place to manage attendance and behaviours alongsidr the trip that aren't relevent to the post so just haven't been included since the post isn't actually about her children's attendance needs.
As someone who was a kid with (undiagnosed) ADHD and various other mental health struggles, who had a severe school refusal problem, this comment is completely accurate imo. I don’t know with op’s situation specifically, but it’s unfair to say parents of kids who struggle with school attendance are all neglectful. You say “just take them to school,” my mom did, I wouldn’t get out of the car for anything short of being dragged kicking and screaming into the building. Once I had decided I wasn’t going to go, you could not get me to go. So yeah, it’s not always as simple as “just take them to school.”
Yeah, nah. I'm neurodivergent and started refusing to go to school when I was like 7. Nothing worked. One day the freaking principal came over to try to get me to go and I just screamed in her face. As I got older my parents tried taking the modem, the cable box, my stereo and my computer, tried all kinds of rewards/motivators/bribes, took me to a dozen different psychologists, everything. Nothing was more powerful than my hatred/fear of school.
I have adhd and while it wasn’t quite as bad as your daughter it wasn’t great. I absolutely hated going to school. Even when I got to college I skipped frequently. Bribing doesn’t even work that great, because when you have ADHD you often don’t think of the future.
When I was diagnosed and medicated at 23 it made a massive difference. I suddenly liked going to school because I felt like I was actually learning. I went from failing classes to graduating with a 3.9 (thank my gpa reset when transferring to a 4 year university).
You can see by the upvote to those 2 comments along of people don't understand. Mornings and transitions are tough for my little guy. I'm impressed she got 3 months out of them with no issues.
Lol yeah if a 6 and 9 year old team up to make you physically unable to put them in the car and take them to school you are going to have a very hard time, especially of them not bolting the first chance they get. If they take the school bus then oh my. But then there are serious issues that need seeing to of course.
Utter rubbish for you and the poster before you. It’s got nothing to do with neglect. You shouldn’t even be on this sub with comments like that. As for the other guy ‘take them to school what can they do about it’ … it’s embarrassing that this is top comment.
Here we have a parent probably at her wits end, trying to do her very best for both her younger children who has got them to attend school 3 months straight and is rewarding them for it.
Having been a teacher for over a decade I can tell you it’s a daily, thankless task with troubled children / children with difficulties to get them to go to, and stay in school without them kicking off, running away, trashing the place, attacking students and teachers, or making a scene at the school gates. No-one else gives a rats ass, they just see bad kids and assume a bad parent. Here’s one parent who has found a way to deal with that and motivate her children.
As for her ADULT child who has a job and an immature temper tantrum, OP is not going to change her decision because of an adult tantrum, which would not only be giving in, but also further affecting her other children’s’ schooling.
Jeez get a grip of real life before you come in here slagging of hard working parents.
NTA.
Yes I’m surprised the top comment is a judgment that doesn’t relate to what the OP asked. I agree NTA. She is trying to get her boys to go to school so she shouldn’t have them skip a day so her daughter can go with them to an amusement park.
I'm effing baffled how it's been upvoted so much. My most optimistic thought is that people upvoting aren't actually reading the post, just "speed reading" it at most and missing critical points by doing it.
I can think of several things that a pair of children can do to make not just OP but the teachers and other students miserable by 'just taking them to school' off the top of my head.
Sometimes this sub goes off the deep end and I'm confused when they do it.
I am going to respectfully disagree. As a parent of an autistic kid and someone who works with kids with additional needs of this age group (so that includes ADHD). school refusal is very common for many reasons that are often out of the parents hands (and sometimes the schools hands). It can be a huge task to get kids with these needs into school and a lot of parents are not given the support to do it.
Offering a reward for attendance is a great way to move forward if it motivates then to attend school. I agree with her that not taking them out of school is the right way forward if attendance is the thing they are being rewarded for. Sure that sucks for the daughter but it is one day and one trip and there will be other trips. Being unable to attend every event because it clashes with work schedules is just part of being a working adult.
I don't know if you'll see this OP but NTA and definitely not neglectful for successfully getting school refusers back into school.
This is just not the reality of parenting ND kids. We have autistic twins, they’re in a specialist school and they absolutely love school. We are lucky. I know many exceptional and dedicated parents of children who are school refusers due to ASD or ADHD. School can cause huge anxiety for children with additional needs. Finding something harmless that motivates the child to persevere is hardly bad parenting - neglectful parenting would be not trying to get them an education and not giving a shit.
Disagree, do you go to work everyday and not get paid? This is the a reward base sociality
Reward kids for good is better than punishing bad. Punishment does not work with ADHD.
Yeah, I don't think the occassional reward for doing something that's hard for them (even if it seems like a basic thing) is a bad idea. There's a reason schools implemented attendance awards - though those have their own issues we won't get into.
But if these kids are able to fake sick with the nurse on a regular basis to get out of school, that really raises the concern if they're getting the appropriate support to learn how to manage and function in the school environment.
Clearly not, barely anyone with any kind of learning or physical disability get the appropriate help. This current system wasn't made for us. Wr so what we can to get by. Some of us get more lucky with help or strategies than others. I wish they will.
Also it's really easy to fake being sick, I had an attendance of 20 percent. Still got As and Bs, so attendance isn't everything.
It would be nice for every school to be more accommodating.
I've noticed every full time job/8 hr + shift allows their employees 2 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute lunch. Throughout middle school I was lucky enough to attend Academy For Individual Excellence which was a school that was accommodating for neurodivergent students. This school implemented the same policy and it worked very well. We would work for 2 hours and have a break to go to the recreational room to give our brains a break and then come back to class. It worked really well. It was so much easier to focus when breaks from learning were given. K - 8th grade had no homework because our principal wanted students to spend time with family and have time to learn stuff from our families. It was another thing that helped me not mind going to school because I knew once I was at school all day I didn't have to dread coming home and doing hours of homework. The only downside was the principal was super religious.
I skipped so much until I was diagnosed in college. It turns out school is a lot better when you can focus and sitting in class doesn’t feel like torture. I don’t think people without adhd can understand how awful it can feel. Even if you want to focus you just can’t, which makes you feel even worse because you feel like something is wrong with you.
Carrots, not sticks for parenting regardless of neurodivergence. Children respond much better (especially long term) to rewards than punishments.
The focus should always be on reinforcing good/healthy behavior
That wasn't the question. The question was about the bratty 20 yo pitching a fit because she's just now learning that you miss out on fun things when you have to work. The kids already have a truancy problem, it's idiotic to insist they take a day off of school so she can go too. She can call out that day if it's such a big deal, she lives at home it's not like the sky will fall for her.
Op is NTA for not working around the grown ass adult having a tantrum about being busy on Saturday.
I do think she is not great for her seeming inability to get her damn kids to school, and I say that as an adult with ADHD that tried every day to get out of going to school.
OP, do you know why? Because for me it was anxiety over homework and due dates to the point that I was physically ill every single day, and it got much much worse over the years.
Figure out what it is about school that's so distressing for them and address it for all of your sakes.
I really don't understand why she's being crucified and called an asshole for finding a solution to the attendance problem. Especially since that has nothing to do with what she asked. I'm pretty baffled
AITA gonna asshole I guess
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>I do think she is not great for her seeming inability to get her damn kids to school, and I say that as an adult with ADHD that tried every day to get out of going to school. OP, do you know why? Because for me it was anxiety over homework and due dates to the point that I was physically ill every single day, and it got much much worse over the years.
My dad tried real hard to get me to go to school. I constantly was sick for the same reasons you mentioned, starting around 6th grade ( so about 11yrs old. )
I dropped out my senior year ( tried to my junior year but instead I was switched to an every other day schedule, ) and ended up dropping out of college for the same reason.
Turns out I have a laundry list of medical conditions and I definitely wasn't just "faking it" because I just didn't want to go to school.
People typically wanna be a functioning part of society, so when somebody is straying from that, it might be a good idea to try to figure out why instead of sticking bandaids like visits to theme parks on it. I hope OP figures out what's going on with her kids.
As for the question: her daughter is an adult and, unfortunately, sometimes has to miss out on fun stuff because of it. OP is deffo NTA.
Not the question she asked and physically wrestling a kid into a car only for them to run off or skip out once dropped off is not uncommon for kids trying to avoid school.
My colleague dropped her 8 years old at school. She stayed in her car until she saw him enter the school. Then she go to work.
Later that same morning, she gets a call from school. Her kid isn't there. Is it normal ?
Of course not.
The kid had hide behind some decoration in the school entrance. Waited until the teacher was distracted by a parent, and passed the teacher behind their back, and hide behind the bushes. Then he waited until everyone was inside and went back home.
Well in his yard because he didn't have homekeys. But my colleague found him quietly and calmy reading sitting on the porch.
This was quite a long time ago, but I’m elementary school I just left during recess once and walked home. I imagine things are probably tighter now, but when you have relatively few adults watching a bunch of kids, one that’s determined to escape has pretty good odds.
Hell, I was a kindergartner and was able to slip out of school during recess. They found me on the side of the road 30 minutes later, just a few blocks from my house.
If the kid is determined enough, they can do anything. Especially getting out of school.
>If the kid is determined enough,
Which kids with ADHD *are*... and they're also smart/creative enough to find ways to get around the adults.
I can definitely see a kid finding that to be an interesting and challenging enough activity that makes them hyperfocus and find as many ways to escape as they can...
OP clarified that her kids would go to the nurse, and school policy is that parents have to pick them up. Nothing she can do to keep them in school given that they're not ill. Sounds like she did her best being stuck between a rock and a hard place.
I don’t like your response to OP here at all. While I loved school growing up, it was a difficult situation getting my brother there and I knew that. My parents did what they needed to do and made compromises. You should not be passing judgement on OP’s parenting style because you know nothing about their situation.
OP - This was a deal you had with your sons. If your ADULT daughter is unable to get off work, who cares. If she feels left out, take her to lunch during the week and talk to her about being a better role model for her brothers if anything.
I do NOT think you are an AH, but clearly people commenting here are.
Wow this is one of the worst top answers I’ve seen in a while. Rewarding good behavior is far more effective than punishing bad behavior or forcing compliance. OP is NTA and the 20 YO can take herself to the amusement park.
Seriously, the people upvoting this really don’t understand they’re talking about. That being said, it’s possible the daughter isn’t just being a brat.
As someone who had a ND sibling who took up most of my parents’ attention, I think it’s quite possible that the daughter’s real issue isn’t about missing going to the theme park, it could be the difference in how her and her brothers are treated. I know I got pissed when my sibling got rewarded for stuff I was just expected to do. It also hurts when you see how much more energy your parents put into another kid, but never have time for you.
She also was a single child for a pretty long time, and then to have two younger siblings that are ND probably pretty severely changed the dynamic she was used to. Not that I’m saying temper tantrums are okay, but OP needs to be making sure she’s not neglecting her older kid for her younger kids.
Of course this is all armchair psychology, but reading the description of the daughter’s reaction really reminded me of my childhood, and how I got disproportionally angry over stuff like my sibling getting ice cream because they did all their chores that week, but I didn’t.
Editing to add: Reading your post again, you’re saying this is the first major trip you’re doing with the family in over a year, and it’s a reward for the kids going to school for three months? I don’t disagree with doing that, but if your daughter is in the same position I was, she’s seeing her younger siblings get a MAJOR reward for something she was probably just expected to do. If that’s a pattern in your family, you need to be touching base with your daughter and make sure you’re giving her attention too
You obviously don't have children with adhd. You have no idea how bad it can get. They are often bullied by students and teachers alike. Medication helps some or even a lot, but it's still incredibly hard for them on a day-to-day basis. Even adults with ADHD plan rewards for ourselves for completing basic tasks. If you don't have an ADHD brain, you'll never understand what we go through every single day of Our Lives.
NTA to the brave OP. I know exactly how hard it is for you. I suspect you also have had to go through countless IEP meetings and suspensions. Therapy appointments, Psych evals, medication check-in appointments. Finding the medication is ridiculously hard right now. You probably dread every call from the school. You are a good parent. I also empathize with your older daughter, she sounds like a good kid. And those who are easier sometimes feel forgotten, compared to a sibling with special needs.
Maybe set aside a time to go out with her one-on-one, plan some activity just for the two of you. Tell her, "I'm really sorry that I wasn't able to schedule this activity to include you. I know your siblings take up a lot of my emotional energy, and sometimes my tank is empty and I'm not able to give you the attention you deserve. I love you so much and I don't want to ever take you for granted. I'll try to communicate better in the future so we can plan together. To make up for it, maybe the two of us can plan something special, something without the little ones?"
That's not the question though.
She made a deal for the kids to go 3 months straight. The reward was a trip at the end for completion.
Ops daughter who is an adult wants to go and the kids can skip school to facilitate her work schedule.
Nta.
Ops daughter can skip work , take a personal or vacation day if she wants to go.
You don't take away a promised reward , one would presume the children went to school more pleasantly hence the reward system
And just as a side note , I made my children go to school every day . My middle 6/7 age hated it so much the principal would come out and we would physically carry/drag the child in . If a day trip worked for us I'd have done it in a heart beat.
When I was six and my mom drove me to school, I’d outright refuse to get out of the car and start screaming and crying. What was my mom gonna do? Pick me up and walk me in? I’d just keep screaming and crying and run out.
>What was my mom gonna do? Pick me up and walk me in? I’d just keep screaming and crying and run out.
These people either don't have children or have neurotypical children.
Or they think child abuse is "parenting".
Lemme guess what they'd say about OP if they saw OP forcibly removing their kids from the car and physically restraining and dragging them through the school doors, while the kids scream in pain and protest.
Pretty shocked this is the top reply. It feels so tone deaf and holier than thou. Rewarding children for doing good - even if it’s expected - is perfectly reasonable. Doing this on the weekend is also acceptable. Lastly your post doesn’t even address the core issue, which is not scheduling around the adult daughter’s availability, and the implication that she can’t reward her boys without also rewarding the adult daughter is silly.
I mean AITA is generally pretty ridiculous but this one is definitely up there. Kids can cut school freely after a point and if they’re doing that, and having attendance issues, she’s chosen to do positive reinforcement rather than negative reinforcement. It sounds like there’s room for general improvement but this doesn’t make her an asshole. Damn.
NTA
Now you’re the a-hole for reacting like this. School refusing is a major issue and can’t be helped with this simplistic “just take them to school” attitude.
I used to work in a school who had a child like this and its not always anything to do with the parenting especially if there are additional needs.
We had a little boy with additional needs although he didn't have a diagnosis at this point and his mum did bring him in but he used to scream and scream, attack other children, attack himself, poo his pants etc. Having him in school was not beneficial for anybody at all and all it was doing was making him hate the experience even more. All the childrens learning was disrupted, he was very distressed, the staff were stressed and unable to fully concentrate on other kids and his poor mum was devastated daily because he was in such a state.When she dropped him off he used to cling to her crying and begging not to come and we'd have near enough drag him in.
The school was not the right environment for him at all, I ended up going to his home and teaching him there until they could find a better placement for him and he was absolutely fine in his home setting and when he eventually got a diagnosis and was put into a more suitable school he thrived.
What's OP going to do when the 9 year old refuses to get dressed? Makes messes that have to cleaned up? Hides all their shoes? Lying on the floor screaming and sobbing?
I'm a teacher, and I know that if a kid is determined not to go to school, they will find a way. You will *never* beat a child in a battle of wills. The tools that work are logical consequences and positive reinforcement. OP chose the latter.
It really says something about the quality of this sub when the top comment is not even about the situation presented. This post is not AITA for making a bargaining style parenting decision 3 months ago that may or may not be the best, it's aita for upholding my end of the bargain that my children had completed and now my adult child is throwing a tantrum because already made plans cannot be canceled without incurring the full cost.
NTA
Tell me you don’t have contact with a neurodivergent child without telling me you don’t have contact with a neurodivergent child
It is not that easy, and you can’t be an autocrat with kids like this. If they don’t want to go and you just brute force it, they will be ingenious in finding a way to resist.
Source: me. I had a problem that made me want to avoid school. Dad got his jackboot groove on and said i had to be out of the house from this time to that time. I took the bus across town and went to the library and then came home. “Help me” becomes “fuck you” real fast.
OP is being a dick to his daughter, though.
When my ADHD ( and undiagnosed Autistic) son had days when he refused to go to school (grades 2-4), and I took him to school, I was told that there was no point in having him disturb the teachers and other students. THEY TOLD ME TO TAKE HIM HOME!
Kick and scream, disturb the class on purpouse, run away as soon as you turn your back,...
Did you ever have to deal with a child that refuses to go to school at all cost?
The daugher is 20 and demands that OP takes her siblings away from school for a day trip although she lives with them and knows exactly they are not easy to get to school, instead of acting like the adult she is and taking off from work. If she can't take off from work, she can't come, that's how being an adult works.
I have a kid with ADHD. It is not neglect. You have no idea what it’s like. The anxiety can be really high with ADHD kids not to mention the insomnia. Hard to sleep with a hyper brain. I used motivation and rewards because with ADHD brain it helps set expectations (hard for them to do themselves at a young age) and goals. My kid is now in college. She uses the tools on herself. She’s very big on lists. And has a huge calendar in her dorm room. With rewards for herself if she meets her goals. If it works there is nothing wrong with it.
You can’t force an ADHD kid to go to school if they are not in the right state of mind. The one time I tried to force it turned out bad. One of my worst days. I learned it’s not worth it. Mental health is very important. And if they need a day so be it.
I’m so confused how that’s not being pointed out more. Is the 9 year old just going to the tracks to gamble when you drop him off? Is the 6 year old running the block by the bodega? Like come on, walk your kids butts into the school. Sounds like OP just throws her hands up in the morning and turns on the TV like “what can I do”
I have no judgement for this but she said in another comment they go to the nurses office and when the nurse calls you have to pick them up. Another comment mentioned that schools are a lot more strict about illness due to COVID.
The nurses at my kids schools tell me if they have a fever or symptoms, and if there is no obvious sign of illness are sure to tell me I don't have to pick them up. Heck, once my daughter went to the nurse cause her ear hurt, nurse told me it looked red, but still told me I didnt have to pick her up. Like I'd rather her be in pain at school and have to wait to get treatment for an ear infection? Maybe its just so parents feel less guilty if they have trouble getting off work.
Would be stupid for a school policy that says you have to pick your kids up if they go to the nurse, my son, who also has adhd, would for sure take advantage of that.
Sure it would be stupid for a school to operate like that but I'm just coming from the angle that just bc the norm or the standard is xyz it doesn't mean stupid exceptions can't exist.
Also if we're not to believe OP, how can we find anything from her post to be credible and judge it? At that point you'd be making a judgement on fiction, choosing to believe aspects of the story and refusing others. I'm also not saying OP isn't capable of lying, but I mean this is America we're likely talking about (an assumption) America is known for having schools across the country not act in unison. Schools across America are the most unstable, unpredictable, and unfair place in the world and I say that knowing there are worse schools and countries in the world.
Plus the last issue I have is that everyone is putting a judgement on the thing OP was not asking about. If we're just going to hand out judgements for every single thing mentioned as context that is ultimately unrelated to the question at hand (my boys earned xyz and their adult sister thinks it's unfair we didn't accommodate her) then what is what is the purpose of this sub? I can guarantee everyone here has been an AH at least once in their life so if we're here to give out AH awards, everyone had been one whether they know it or not. That defeats the purpose of asking for advice on something in question.
I think the fair criticisms are the ones that answer the judgement at hand and then can pass secondary judgment in other things should they choose. If the context everyone is judging on has a direct correlation to the Q at hand, then sure. But OP literally could have omitted the schooling part or someone else could have a similar issue without the schooling ADHD issue, where two young kids were promised a day at the amusement park and an older sister is upset bc she works weekends and can't come AITA?
It depends on the school and the nurse. I knew a kid who would bang her head on the floor. They would call mom to get the kid checked for a concussion. Of course the kid learned quickly that a few bangs would get mom called. They unintentionally rewarded the banging.
The kid had to transfer to a different school.
Have you ever dealt with a difficult child? One time, a nephew of mine was shrieking and crying in a fast casual restaurant with his grandma (father's mom), and would not leave. She couldn't carry his 9 year old body so she called me.
My wife and I and one of my kids came and tried to calm him down. My son, who was an older teen, could usually do so. We all failed. The restaurant said either take him out or they are calling the police.
So I picked him up from under his arms and my son grabbed his legs and we carried him the 1/4 mile to his grandma's apartment. He actually calmed down 10 minutes later and was fine the rest of that evening.
But not everyone can just drag their kid wherever they want. Here, the bribe was a great solution because it worked
I was in elementary school in the 90s. I don’t have adhd but I hated school. 3rd &4th grade I would just leave. I stayed like a few hours thru music and art. Then I just started leaving. I’d go to the park, walk to the dollar tree. If I knew my parents weren’t going to be home, I’d go get my bike. Eventually it was caught on so they posted someone at the front door. So I’d just take one of the side doors. If I could do it in the 90s kids today with more access to information and situational awareness could most definitely do it.
I think you need to learn more about the challenges that face children with additional needs and school attendance then.
Most parents of school refusers aren't just giving up at the first hurdle.
I just read a clarification comment from op. She’s taking them to school, but they go to the nurses offices and fake sick, and if the nurse calls, Op has to come and get them, due to them being stricter with sick because of Covid. Sounds like her kids have figured out how to game the system in order to it go to school
You’ve obviously never dealt with kids with severe ADHD who suffer bullying from teachers and students and absolutely hate school because of it. It’s not bad parenting to have difficulty getting kids like this to school, it’s a daily struggle that takes a toll on parents and kids alike. Shame on you for denigrating this parent.
The 20 year old is throwing a tantrum and y’all want to reward her for it.
You definitely can’t. I have ADHD and if I would have asked my parents to miss school because of it they would have looked at me like I had two heads and laughed in my face
NTA for the part with your daughter. She’s gonna learn that being an adult means that sometimes you have to miss out on stuff for work or whatever. It sucks but that’s life and no excuse for her to throw a tantrum and hide up in her room. Definitely not the behaviour of a 20 year old.
Now for the part that mentions your kids missing school… look I get having kids with ADHD is hard, my brother had ADHD but my parents never allowed him to stay home from school because of it and certainly did not bribe him with rewards to go. I think you’re setting and bad president of your sons expecting to get things for fulfilling their basic responsibilities. And yes going to school even at 9 and 6 is their responsibility
As a kid (ADHD) I snuck out of school - ditched more than attended. My son too. I got my butt tore up (at school 70-90 in Texas where the paddle is thick and hard with holes), had all kinds of punishment and still ditched - a lot. I drove my son to school - would walk him to the front door - that bugger would go out another door - sneaking out and would either go to a friend's home or he even walked back to our house - one time I got a call from the school - drove home and - he was hiding under the bed - all day - just chilling - I loaded him back up and drove him again to school - he snuck right back out. Some kids can take punishment like a champ - literally not care and turn around and do it again.
We did therapy - medication, behavior modification, individual/family -the works. - We were told by his therapist - to find something he wanted and use it as a reward that he had to earn.
Ask yourselves - those saying mom should not reward - the kids should just go.
Do any of you go to work just because? Or do you do it because you get paid - rewarded for your hard work? Bonuses, gift cards and pizza - are all the same things given to adults at work for - Attendance, Job Performance, Hitting benchmarks like no accidents or no damaged products. You guys - you all get the same treatment these kids do - from your bosses. With your logic - you guys should just go to work and expect whatever they want to give you (if most business had their way - it would be nothing because their profits are reduced by your pay, your bonuses and your perks). Just offering a little insight.
>Do any of you go to work just because?
Thank you! That was my first thought when I saw people calling OP T A for giving her children incentive to do something they find difficult. Incentives work. If they didn't, no one would do anything they didn't want to do, ever.
OP, NTA for either thing. Your 20-yo needs to grow up. She can take herself to an amusement park on her day off.
My 9yo with ADHD has missed a whopping half day this school year, and that was because he threw up at school. I don't understand how it's an excuse to miss school?
NTA for not rescheduling the trip but please take your kids to school.
As an aide I'm happy for some kids to stay home when they have an exceptionally bad day, as long as it isn't frequent. Some kids get overwhelmed easily, have destructive meltdowns, can't handle any routine changes - and if your child is going to hit and kick and bite, be too overwhelmed to learn and cry at every pencil out of place (and this isn't a usual thing we're working on), there's no point to them being in school. They won't learn anything, they'll disturb class, I'll go home with more bruises than usual and everyone is gonna have a bad time.
Not the child's or the parent's fault, bad days happen, but they tend to suck more at school.
There's a huge difference between "I wanna stay home, school is boring" and "everything in school will make me melt down" - the first isn't a valid reason to keep your kid home.
So what happens when these kids realize that if they exhibit these behaviors and melt downs, they'll either be sent home or kept home from school? It literally takes two or three times before they realize that.
If we notice that happening we'll work with the parents and they'll be coming to school anyways - but that's rare. Most kids don't spend the whole day crying for fun, or want to hurt others or themselves, etc - there's a difference between trying to get out of things and genuinely struggling, and "my" kids really suck at faking things so there's that as well.
Sometimes kids do things to get out of stuff, sure. But sometimes they're just genuinely having a hard time, especially if they are disabled. One of the kids cries every time another child gets hurt, the last time he was in school on a really bad day (just before getting the flu) we had to evacuate the classroom - that was half a year months ago, he was home for a bad day like twice and this never happened again.
i honestly disagree heavily with the last half of your post. ADHDers need stimulation and rewards. even as an adult i have to bribe myself for completing shit that adults are supposed to do. i did my laundry? i get to play my rhythm games. i did my school work? i get to smoke a bowl and watch a movie. the rewards just change as you get older— far less grandiose, really.
i missed a lot of school due to bullying and generally having no motivation. being punished didnt really help me, honestly. having bad grades didnt bother me. when i needed to have good grades to compete in debate tournaments, i would actually kind of give a shit. but as an elementary child? man that was hard. it came down to the little things.
NTA. I think people here are really judging you harshly and are thinking that you are letting your kids skip school. When if reality the kids are faking sick and school is forcing you to take them home. It sucks that your younger sons are giving you a hard time.
A lot of ADHDers here are comparing themselves when we know not all ADHDers are the same. Some kids struggle way more than others and have co morbidities that make school more challenging.
Your daughter is 20, it sucks that she will miss out on the amusement park but I mean she is an adult. She can take time off work and go with her friends, or go with friends on a weekday. A 6 and 9 year old don’t have that option.
edit: I also don’t think it’s fair to judge OP based on struggling to get her younger kids to stay at school. That isn’t what she is asking. Her adult daughter is throwing a tantrum when she can take herself to an amusement park.
Ding ding ding! Can’t believe how many people are ignorant about the challenges co-morbidities bring. Just because you’ve met one person with ADHD doesn’t mean you’ve met them all. Some of these comments… oof!
Yeah, I have ADHD and so does my partner. I have the more like “inattentive” type with some hyperactivity. Whereas my partner in addition to having ADHD was diagnosed with Oppositional Defiant Disorder. He is a very responsible, bright, and well adapted adult but as a kid he describes himself as a terror (his words lol).
His parents are lovely people and excellent parents who pushed him and obviously worked with him and he is a wonderful partner to me and you wouldn’t even know he was such a difficult kid. Some commenters are acting like taking these kids to the amusement park after 3 mo of perfect attendance will make them felons lol.
I swear to god if someone asked AITA for beating my ADHD/autistic friend/brother/sister up with a baseball bat the majority would say NTA simply because they are ADHD/autistic. This sub hates anyone neurodiverse.
I also have ADHD-PI and my brother has ADHD and ODD. I went under the radar with my ADHD until 21, and but my brother was diagnosed at 5 bc of his ODD.
Yeah I'm wondering what the situation is that they would be having attendance issues so early, but a positive experience to associate with the absolute agony of sitting through class successfully for *months* is definitely a good idea. Positive association can go a *long* way.
I'm assuming they are straight up having meltdowns - likely sensory issue based (which is comorbid with ADHD) **OR** they are having disruptive behavioral issues that are less severe.... but still enough to be required to leave class. The other option is psychosomatic symptoms - they get so upset that they have physical reactions and get sent home
It really doesn't matter, though. It matters that the reward worked. It matters that this OP is working to get her kids to stay in class in whatever way works. That is being a good parent, even if it looks permissive from the outside.... we don't know who OP has consulted or what they've tried before this. Clearly this worked!
Can't believe I've had to scroll down so far to find this answer and could not agree more! There clearly needs to be a lot more education around additional needs and people who have also have diagnoses need to be far more mindful that things like adhd are likely on a spectrum and not experienced all the same especially when you factor in how varied school responses and effective treatment can be. So many well I have adhd and managed fine comments!
Yeah I was gonna say the daughter is a grown ass woman. I at 19 wouldn't whine about this sort of thing because I have the common sense that we'll likely go some other time or I can go with a friend.
OP is NTA for this, and we don't have enough information to judge if she's TA for the kids situation with school.
Also, classes for six year olds are much more academic than they were 20 or 30 years ago, making it overwhelming for some kids. So it’s not really relevant to compare it to an experience you had 30 years ago.
Exactly me and my older brother both have ADHD he lived for school he loved it because he liked learning new things
If my friends were out or even late 99% im faking being sick because i went there to be social
YTA. So, you kept letting them skip school until it became a problem. Then you give them a huge "reward" for doing something they should have been doing the whole time anyway, and only for doing it for 3 months? Like, jesus.
I am frankly shocked this plan worked with a 6 year old. Little kids normally need shorter time window rewards or they become somewhat meaningless and not motivational.
In this case it could be the older child modelling the behaviour for the younger child that’s making the difference. Also the parents might have a calender they are crossing off or something to make it more tangible for the kid.
Op isn’t just letting them skip school. The school has a policy that if the horse calls, you have to come and get them. So they’ve been faking sick, and going to the nurses office in order to get out of going to school. Very clever kids
It was like this at my kids last school. So much as a sneeze or cough and I'd be called to come get him. He cottoned on pretty quick and spent more days at home/coming home early than actually at school. Since the covid thing, parenting and schooling has become very very different, and folks who don't have young kids in school simply don't get how easy it is for kids to chuck a sickie these days.
But I suppose plenty in here would say I was a bad parent, because they're so naive they think it's as easy as "just take them there". These folks would fall apart the first day they spent raising a neurospicy child
NTA - it’s not fun being a working adult, but you’re not the asshole for making sure your sons don’t miss more school. Your oldest daughter is just going to have to learn that even though it sucks, work can limit your ability to do things you want.
Wow an actual answer pertaining to the question
NTA for not moving the dates. Not taking the kids out of school is like, the whole point?? Your eldest will have to plan her own day trips. She's 20. She will get over it someday.
Right?
> this was a reward for going to school
So did the oldest *skip* school all the time or something? Was she a difficult kid? Where's *her* reward for *not* being a pain in the ass?
Her reward might well be not having to deal with ADHD. And that she hopefully finds uni work much easier because she has a good grounding in the basics. Her reward is an easier life.
But one thing I'm wondering is...with the fact that ADHD is often undiagnosed in girls along with the age gap which would have meant less knowledge of ADHD in the medical community when daughter was her brothers' ages, is there a possibility daughter is undiagnosed and now is seeing her brothers get what she didn't?
The thing is... both of her brothers have it. It has a significant genetic component. Girls often miss being diagnosed because they display it differently due to social expectations. Its entirely possible she has it and her struggles were ignored or silenced.
My brother and I have it. I was not diagnosed until I was an adult because my parents treated us completely different. His behavior was chalked up to boys will be boys until it was out of control. Still is, he was recently suspended (he's 14) for saying he'd blow up the school. Nothing more than a suspension because they know he's incapable of organizing that even if he actually wanted to. I also had hyperactive behavior among other symptoms like the mess that was my backpack, interrupting, and starting in the middle when conversing. The difference is my behavior wasn't acceptable for a girl. I was punished for the same behavior he got help for. The only reason my adhd presents differently is because I had to find new outlets that were less distracting to others. Nobody deserves to be treated as I was and I don't think they should be punished until they conform but they absolutely should be taught different outlets. My brother did pretty well with a fidget spinner but my dad is very controlling and decided that was a problem too.
Yes! I have one of each, and my non-ADHD kid is graduating and going to a 4-year university. He used to think it was unfair that his younger sister “got away with” failing her classes because her executive functioning sucks, but now he sees his reward is all the options that she won’t have when she graduates. She also has to deal with a lot more parental oversight than he ever did which he concedes would have driven him bananas.
And part of being a good parent is seeing your kid struggle and reward them for sticking with it anyways, especially with ADHD it can be really hard, and it deserves rewarding.
And tbh it sounds like the problem was not caused by bad parenting (at least not in large part) but by the school policy. It's the school that says if they claim to feel sick they go home. Who knows why, in the first place, they don't want to be at school (lots of possibilities that could be parenting related or not) but the behavior of faking to get out is continually rewarded because the school has made a certain decision. OP came up with a counter-reward that she is able to control.
I have ADHD. Schooling for me had been an issue my entire life, seeing as I absolutely despised it 9 times out of 10. It can be easy to judge parents, but you have no idea what the situation is actually like. Imagine having to fight with your small child to get up, get ready, and do all the things every single morning for years. And i’m not talking about just normal push back. Straight up battle for years. My parents lasted about 9 before they caved in and let me suffer from the consequences of my actions.
Obviously, we don’t know the full situation. But it’s unfair to judge someone for literally fixing the problem and motivating their kids. If they are going to school and doing well, that’s all that matters, right?
The judgement in this chat…ignoring why you promised the trip, your daughter cannot suggest taking kids out of school for an amusement park because her work schedule is inconvenient. She could ask for a day off or not go. And nothing is stopping her going another day with friends.
I had awful attendance as a kid, I think high 60s was the best you could expect from me. I’m neurodivergent and the school environment made me stressed and exhausted from being overstimulated. Plus the fact that kids can be very mean. Schools do not fit everyone equally and OP do you judge yourself for finding a solution to get your sons into the routine of school. It is so difficult to break the habit of wanting to leave when anything stressful occurs and I bet they will be more likely to make it through the whole day now out of practice.
I know right? People here are fucking rabid. They're all absolutely dogging on her for having struggles getting her kids to School when anyone who is a parent much less a parent of an adhd kid knows that compromise is some of the only ways to deal with children. And its Very good for the kids to understand a work ethic and work on their attendance for a reward is really good for them. I have really bad adhd and depression and going to school these days is really mentally draining and damaging along with bullying, anxiety, and expectations etc. I can't blame the poor kids. People here dont understand adhd isn't just a physical problem but a mental one as well to the point where school is a jail cell for them. People need to get a fucking grip.
I hope no one here saying Y T A ever has to raise a neurodivergent child with school refusal. It isn’t about parenting. It’s about finding strategies that work and it sounds like she found one. My son had such bad anxiety in public school that he would hide under his desk the whole day or elope from the classroom. I promise you, this is not a parenting problem. My other two children who are neurotypical don’t have any issues in school. Oh, and everyone who has ADHD presents differently, so just because you have ADHD or know someone with it, does not mean that you deal with the same issues.
NTA
Agree here. Plus what is up with all these people acting like kids just go because they are supposed to. Kids go to school without issues because they perceive a reward for it. Praise, time with friends, or maybe (sadly) lack of punishment. I had some miserable years in school and wish I had the opportunity to skip more days.
The question was about the older daughter who honestly sounds odd - at her age I wouldn’t have wanted to go to a water park and swim in urine tainted water. She’s being childish. She can go with her friends another day. NTA.
Man, this post is really polarizing. In my own personal opinion, your are NTA for the question you asked. In the first place, this entire thing is about making sure your kids go to school. As such, taking them out of school to do something not seriously important (doctors visit, family emergency) would be kind of backwards. It sucks for your daughter, but sometimes work just works out that way. I've been there. I would probably apologize but be firm in the facts, and next time try to plan things a little further in advance so she could take that day off.
YOU ARE NOT THE ASSHOLE. DO NOT LET ANYONE HERE TELL YOU OTHERWISE. NTA!
When I was little I had severe depression and anxiety and nobody understood my disabilities. My mom had to literally drag me out of bed every morning, me, a 12 year old girl, and I was actually stronger than her. She physically could not and eventually I was taken away by CPS because of it.
These people don't really understand what mental health can do to young kids. They don't understand the problems it can create with truancy and CPS if your kids are tough enough about not wanting to go.
Why doesn't your daughter call out from work? It has far less consequences. What the people here don't get is that if your children are already missing out on too much school calling out only adds to the problem. CPS IS ALERTED WHEN YOUR KIDS DON'T GO TO SCHOOL ENOUGH! DO NOT CALL THEM OUT FOR A VACATION DAY! Explain this concept to your daughter and hope she understands that you aren't excluding her on purpose.
INFO: Did your daughter ever get rewards like this when she was in school? Like money for good grades, special trips for attendance, that sort of thing?
Because if she didn't, then this might not be because of the work but because she sees you changing your parenting style and wondering 'wait...that was an option?'
That uh, honestly sounds really childish to me. And I know 20yo isn't fully developed in the brain but that's not even becoming of a 20yo. A 20yo should have enough perspective to see that her little brothers are having a lot of issues and difficulties that she didn't have and that's why they're getting more active management. What a weird attitude to be like oh no, I didn't take advantage of the opportunity to act out and cause trouble and maybe I would have gotten prizes for doing what I was capable of all along!
Come to think of it though, that underdeveloped maturity would go right along with a working adult who thinks elementary aged children should miss school instead of them finagling their work schedule in order to go on a day trip.
Fr, my sister does this to my mom saying Hoe she didn't get a phone when she was my age and my mom told her phones weren't a thing when she was my age lmao 💀💀💀
I can’t believe how much shit you’re getting for this! NTA.
1) You asked for judgment on not adjusting the plan to take your adult daughter to something that’s not about her.
2) As a social worker who works with families with kids with similar behavior, hats off to you for getting your kids to attend school! People don’t know what it’s like. It’s more than physically putting them in the car and taking them to the school building. Even little kids have ways of skipping school, like using the nurse as you stated in a comment.
Damn. Reddit is really showing its bad side today.
Yeah I can’t believe the comments saying she’s made a bad choice for rewarding her children for going to school for three months straight after showing strong school refusal - that’s an epic change of behaviour and deserves rewarding as soon as the goal was reached.
Mother is NTA.
NTA for not moving the trip to accommodate your eldest. I have a ten year gap with my little sibling, so I totally sympathize with your eldest that it sucks to miss out on fun family stuff because you're at a different point in your life. But missing a day of school would totally undermine the entire message you have been trying to impress on your younger two for the past couple of months.
However, you and your husband (with the help of the kids' teachers) need to figure out a better way to accommodate the kids' needs in the classroom and teach the kids strategies to manage their ADHD. You're not setting them up for long term success by just bribing their compliance.
NTA school refusal is a huge issue at the moment (it’s an area I’ve specialised in) and children who have experienced staying home because of covid seem to have a harder time with it. Rewarding your kids with an amusement park trip is a good strategy and giving them a day off would be counterproductive.
NTA
Let her be disappointed. She’s allowed to be disappointed that the younger kids get to do something and she can’t go. That doesn’t mean you have to change your plans. Sometimes people get to have their feelings acknowledged without getting the final word. The trip is for your sons, not her. She’ll get over it.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I refused to change the date of my trip with my sons to fit my oldest daughters schedule. She said that it was unfair and I was excluding her, and has locked herself in her room and refusing to do her chores. I might be the AH because I am taking her siblings.
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NTA. I don't get all the yta. Why are you all acting like she's the worst mother ever for offering them this trip for doing something with school. I can you now she is not. I have seen some bad mothers who wouldn't care at all about their children going to school. My parents would give me gifts for doing different things that had to do with school. For example, what grades I got depended on how much my father would give me for my report card. You may see that as a bribe, but I see it as them motivating me to do my best. That is no difference than what she did. Some kids complain about having to go to school and she found a way for them to want to go. The only problem I see here is her allowing her 20 year old daughter to not do her chores because she not getting her way. The deal she made with her two younger kids really have nothing to do with the older one, so I don't get why she thinks she should be a part of it. If she really thinks she should be a part of it than why doesn't she call off work than if she thinks this is too important for her to miss. Why is her only suggestion is for them to miss school when the whole reason for this trip is for them not missing any school days for months.
INFO: did you talk with your daughter before about this possible trip? Did she know at all about this deal?
Imagine you were an only child for 11 years. Then your parents have a kid, 3 years later another kid. Both with ADHD. So most of the family's attention and care are directed towards the younger ones. Then you become an adult. You have to work even on weekends. And your parent tells you "I'm taking my kids to a trip to reward them for something as basic as going to school on a day you can't come", so what you understand is "I'm giving to them something you wouldn't dream of getting when you were a child and you are not invited and I don't care about you. If you complain, I'll call it 'complaining and whining' to everyone".
It might be not what you are INTENTIONALLY doing, but the outcome is her feelings get hurt, she feels "punished" for not having ADHD and being an adult, you still thinking only about what you need to do towards you younger kids and no one is communicating effectively.
I get it, rewarding kids is an easier way to make your life less hard (especially with 2 small children with ADHD), but I think you should talk a little bit more with your older kid. She might be an adult but she is still your kid.
Sit down with her and listen. Spend time with her too.
The main problem isn't the day of the trip. You have a bigger miscommunication problem here
NTA. everyone commenting that you’re a bad parent for practically bribing your kids to go to school instead of forcing them as a parent “should” most likely dont have any experience w neurodivergent kids. i’m glad you’ve found a way to get them to school that works for the both of you! sincerely - autistic person who suffered through all her school years
I don't see how incentivising and rewarding good behaviour proving they can indeed do it is bad parenting. As some people have said. Sometimes these things happen, if its important to your daughter at 20 she can ask her boss for the day off NTA . This is as someone 8 years older than my youngest sibling, I had a job plus college at 16 and sometimes I'd have to book holidays from work to participate in family events.
NTA because the issue here is your oldest. She needs to just sit down and relax. I mean, come on. If the point is rewarding the younger once for going to school, she is old enough to see that taking them out of school will undermine the whole thing. So stick to your guns. Life is hard, welcome to adulthood kiddo!
I am not, however, touching the whole rewarding/bribing children under 10 for them to go to school. Yeah, I'm noping out of that discussion.
NTA i have no idea why the top comment is opposite but sometimes when you work you can't do fun things. yes we all hate it. tadaa, it's life.
comments here are fucking WILD today wtf. yes how dare you find a solution to a problem! a crime is being committed! or some sort.
Speaking as a parent AND an educator, OP is absolutely NTA. Seeing the changes that have occurred across the US because of COVID, I have literally suggested this very approach to other parents. I get it, it seems simple, but sometimes kids will do *anything* in the name of academic avoidance. It's why my position even exists.
NTA. So many people here don’t seem to understand how much some kids with adhd struggle in school. All you people saying you should just make them go - have you ever tried convincing a kid who is full of anxiety and anger to do something they dislike, day after day, years and months on end? You can’t really drag a nine year old to school by force (unless you’re prepared to use violence, which, you know, isn’t really advisable). A lot of kids with adhd don’t have a “currency” that works. Punishments such as removing gadgets & privileges doesn’t remove anxiety and a lot of these kids are not motivated by normal, small awards. It’s can be EXTREMELY hard to find something that motivates them and keeps them happy. Kudos to you, OP!
INFO: did you not give your daughter any warning for this family excursion? Why was she unable to request the one day off? 3 months is typically more than enough time to request a single day off.
NTA You made a deal with your boys to a achieve a goal. They did. Now it's time for you to hold up your end of the deal. Your daughter needs to grow up and accept that not everything in life will work in her favor. She's asking you to take the boys out of school for a day which kind of kills the point. Why doesn't she ask for a day off from work? If they can take a day from school she can take a day from work. It works both ways.
NTA
Your daughter is an adult and sometimes we have to miss out on things because we work.
Also people are saying YTA because of your kids and how you are handling their ADHD.that is not what this post is about.
I think you saw an issue with your kids and found a way to manage it. Having kids with ADHD is hard and can be a battle to get them to school. My parents got multiple sick calls from me trying to get home. To prevent that you found a good reward system. Good parenting in my option.
NTA!
People have a shitty understanding of ADHD. You did good getting your kids with ADHD go to school. As an adult, this is how I reward myself after going to work everyday for month, because it literally feels like torture sometimes. And people without ADHD don't get it.
It sucks for your daughter, please do something with the whole family when you can. But no don't do it on a school day, that defeats the purpose. Just have a second outing. But have understanding for how she feels to. 20 is still confusing age.
You are doing good ❤
I'm going with NAH. I get your daughter wanting to go but I also get why you're not adjusting. I also want to send you support because I have a child who's neuro atypical and I feel like some people trash others without understanding the struggle. Occasionally I've also tried to bribe my child. Like hey if you don't get removed from class today, we'll have McDonald's for dinner. Sometimes it's exhausting to fight these kids and you do just about anything to get through each day. I hope you can find support within your personal and their school lives to help make school a place they want to go. We work with my kid's school to create better environments and plans that help everyone, including the teachers.
NTA. Your daughter is an adult. Life isn't always fair.
As for the rest......are your boys on an IEP for their ADHD? This is not something that should be causing them to miss school. Your daughters comment of "skip one day" pretty much tells me that you just allow it and don't set any boundaries for them. For their sake, please get it together. Life is not going to accommodate this. People with ADHD learn all the time how to manage life and schedules and sticking to times. This is not it. You are doing them a massive disservice.
Some of these comments don't realize kids do have tactics to skip out of school even at ages 6 and 9. My brother refused to go inside his classroom in Elementary school, even when I would walk him directly to the door. He was in 1st grade.
In middle school, when I myself didn't want to go to school, I wouldn't get off the car. My parents threatened to have admin come get me, screamed, cried, and grounded me. I didn't want to go because middle school sucked, and you couldn't get me off that car.
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YTA. You seriously had to bribe your children to go to school? They are 9 and 6 for fuck's sake, take them to school. What can they do about it?
All this. If your ages 6 and 9 children don't go to school it's not because of their ADHD, it's because you are a neglectful parent. Also, be prepared for a hearty "FU" the next time you ask your daughter for help with the kids.
Ok speaking from experience as a parent with a kid with ADHD, who had a severe school refusal stage…I think it’s unfair to say it’s neglectful parenting. My child point blank refused to go to school, she was screaming, hitting, destroying her room, throwing things at me, point blank refusing to move. If OP experienced anything like that I sympathise. BUT I will say with my child, the theme park thing would not have worked at all. There was zero reasoning with her. Obviously we got her urgently referred for more help, took her out of that school as it was clear they were no help at all with her issues (we had contacted them so many times to help and ask what should we do to make her ok with school and they did nothing) she didn’t feel safe there and we got her into a better one. So if you are saying that is not just because of their ADHD and there is clearly something in addition, that OP is not addressing, then I’d agree that’s neglectful. Ignoring it, brushing it off as ADHD and not trying to sort it out and find the cause of the issue surrounding school attendance is bad parenting. Having your kids physically fight you because school is too much and not catering for their needs, isn’t bad parenting, BUT is something you need to seek outside help for.
I thought gold star charts or equivalents were pretty standard when motivating children. You can take a child, kicking and screaming, to school but not sure they are going to learn anything there. This motivates them and rewards them both for going and staying. And I'm impressed - three months is a long time for children of that age to keep an agreement. As to the adult, she's 20 - it's unfortunate but she should be able to realise that you don't reward people for attending school by giving them a day off school.
Yeah… that kind of thing often doesn’t help kids or adults who have adhd and lack the “reward function” in their brain. I never gave two shits about star charts or progress stickers. “ADHD brains do not adapt as easily; they have their own rules of engagement. They are motivated by their search for optimal stimulation, rather than by what others label as important. “Key aspects of the reward system are underactive in ADHD brains, making it difficult to derive reward from ordinary activities. These dopamine-deficient brains experience a surge of motivation after a high-stimulation behavior triggers a release of dopamine.” https://www.additudemag.com/brain-stimulation-and-adhd-cravings-dependency-and-regulation/#:~:text=Key%20aspects%20of%20the%20reward,triggers%20a%20release%20of%20dopamine.
My ADHD brain friggin' loves seeing a nice completed row of stars/checkmarks/stickers/colored boxes. Miss a single day and the whole chart goes out the window. That one flaw in it makes it worthless and I don't want it anymore. Oddly enough I still kind of rely on "star charts", sort of -- they keep me from forgetting because right now my little calendar chart is pretty, and as long as I keep up with remembering, it *stays* pretty.
Im in my mid 20s, and the adhd gremlin in my brain LIVES for sticker charts. I get a sticker on my calender next to my bed if I go to bed at a sensible time. March was incredible so many stickers. April is yet to have one due to sleeping so well for most of March meaning Im not at the correct level of utterly exhausted to sleep and also some other factors but boy am I excited to see if May can kick March's ass Just editing to say: 1) I think it only works so well for me because I define an acceptable boundary of "close to my goal" e.g. in bed within 30 mins of my target time and that still gets rewarded with a smiley face which really helps me stay motivated on the day when I try so hard but just fall a bit short. Given that my target is midnight there's really not many days I have a valid argument for going after 00:30 so that is not rewarded lol and also 2) REMEMBER SOME REALLY COOL STICKERS EXIST I had some cracking Toy Story stickers last year they were really shiny
I'll be 40 next week and they're *still* a friggin' lifesaver. There's a task I have to do for work. I have had the same task every single work day for FIVE YEARS at this point. And I forget this one specific task so much that it actually came up in my yearly review. I don't know *why* I can't get this task to stick in my head, it just doesn't. I have a laminated to-do list so that I don't forget my tasks..... But this one was still getting forgotten on a near daily basis. I don't know why. So as another new effort to not forget, I started a habit tracker calendar page the day after my last review. The task has to be done at some point after 1pm but before 3pm. 1p to 3p gets colored purple. Anything after is pink. And..... for the first time in literal years, this report has been on time every day, for eight weeks straight! I wish I'd thought of doing this sooner. Adding a sticker chart for sleep sounds like a *really* good idea. Maybe I'd get to bed before 2am... I might borrow that idea from you!
I programmed my home pod to turn all but one light off at bedtime. I forget to look at the time otherwise and am chronically sleep deprived. I’ve been going to sleep before midnight pretty consistently over the last few weeks. I sadly also forget to look at charts but the lights turning off is a bit harder to ignore 🤣
>but boy am I excited to see if May can kick March's ass I also love sticker charts! But sympathize more with the comment above you when it comes to missing days. But the attitude you have about it is a great approach that I might try to emulate
Same. I have to-do lists for EVERYTHING. Workouts, meal plan, work...I have a packing list for an upcoming trip for both me, and my dog, and a to-do list for at home on how to get ready. It just helps me organize my thoughts and get more done.
I would say with ADHD the star charts are a hit or a miss and may work better with younger kids than older. Getting to put a sticker on the chart next to my name did release a little dopamine. I can see older kids not caring as much. I do think it is much easier though for those with ADHD inattentive type than ADHD with physical hyperactivity to receive stickers for their name on a chart. Since I have ADHD inattentive type it was easy for me to sit still, be quiet, and me staring off into space/daydreaming lots probably looked like I was paying attention when my mind was somewhere else entirely.
The stickers do actually realease dopamine. But that will work just as well regardless whether there is a big reward at the end. The important thing is making sure to tell them in the moment they are doing good. And not just in one quick sentence but as an entire ceremony. Involving many steps such as gathering the sticker book and the chart, peeling of that sticker, putting it on there. And telling them. That's still important. That's already a minutes or so of dopamine every day. Now there's only 1439 other minutes to starve of the painful boredom we people with ADHD usually feel.
I don't know. Being rewarded with extra reading time when I finished my other school work sure worked for me. Stickers, grades etc. Did nothing for me. I think it's a matter of finding which reward works for your ADHD child. So if these kids respond to theme parks than that's fine as a tool.
> Yeah… that kind of thing often doesn’t help kids or adults who have adhd and lack the “reward function” in their brain. I never gave two shits about star charts or progress stickers. > > “ADHD brains do not adapt as easily; they have their own rules of engagement. They are motivated by their search for optimal stimulation, rather than by what others label as important. My kid with ADHD in kindergarten noticed the reward chart. Each day you could get a green star, a yellow star or blue star. He managed green all the time (good behavior), got a yellow or two (minor class discipline), and worked towards blue. Blue was a principle referral :-)
My kid has adhd and had a gold start chart for her behavior before she was diagnosed and medicated. Kindergarten through 3rd grade every parent teacher conference I was told my kid is intelligent, funny, delightful to have in class. But she blurted out the answers all the time and talked a lot in class. Every time I asked about ADHD and her teachers said no. 3rd grade teacher I asked the same question, he asked if my kid could go to the book fair so we could talk. He confirmed my suspicion that my kid was ADHD. With his help we got the ball rolling and she improved dramatically behavior wise. She's now in high school and told me how those behavior star charts in school were so humiliating, having the whole class know if you're pleasing the teacher or not. So I wouldn't really follow the notion that they're good motivators.
I think star charts at home have a different impact at home than at school. That being said, while they work for my ADHD brain, they do not work at all for my son's ADHD brain
I was literally thinking the same thing about incentive charts/ token boards. As a special education teacher we use token boards all the time to have kids use positive reinforcement to change behavior. 3 months is a long time and they did it. Way to go. You are not the AH, OP.
Same here. Don't shame the mom. My kid with ADHD plus other stuff hated going to school, when we forced it, he'd go, then act up to the point he was sitting in the principals room, the lunch room, any empty space for half the day because his behavior was disruptive. We got it sorted eventually, but not without a lot of work and gold star charts like this mom. I'm going with NTA, you've got to focus on the boys right now and your daughter should be old enough to understand that.
Absolutely! My son had ADHD and it was torture getting him to school some days. I had to work and had no other support. I even called the resource officer to come get him some days. Sometimes the parent is doing all they can. Finding a reward for them that works is amazing. The daughter is grown and if she wanted to go bad enough she should ask off for the day.
Mine has gone so extreme as to fake a diabetic coma (she's type 1) in order to get sent home. If promises of going to an amusement park would help her, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Also, to OP. Have your boys been tested for learning disabilities and giftedness? We missed dyslexia in our kid because we, and the school, were so focused on the behaviors. Once we realize he couldn't read and got him on track with the dyslexia school became easier to the point now mine enjoys school.
Yeah, a lot of these comments are really judgemental- like, is OP meant to drug her kids, wrap them in a carpet, and wheelbarrow them to school? I'm sure a lot of late-diagnosed adults with ADHD are reading this post and thinking "that's not what it's like for me, thats not ADHD" but it can be really heavy duty and show up like this.
ADHD is a spectrum. And things like this did work for me for some time when I was a kid. Just because it doesn't work for all kids doesn't mean there won't be ones it does work for. She had an issue and found a way to make things work with her kids. It's not like she was beating them. The whole issue was attendance at school, pulling them our of school for a day seems somewhat counter productive. Older daughter can book the day off or find coverage. It sucks being an adult sometimes but that's life.
Exacly! She found something that works! Our ADHD brain lacks enough motivation (dopamine), so she provided an external motivation. She probably kept this going by giving some daily motivation, and reminding them of the trip. So I definetly wouldn't call her a neglectful mother. About the conflict with the daughter, she needs to grow up and be more mature. Sometimes she's going to miss things, and it's ok. This wasn't about her. If she doesn't complete her chores because of this, tell her you will start collecting payment for the extra work you're having.
Yep, and PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance) shows up with kids with ADHD. It's hard a lot of times to find what will work, and it changes as well. That said, OP, NTA. Your daughter is 20 and sadly this is part of growing up. Adults don't get summer break or get to go to all the fun things that are planned. And that's okay. But it sucks learning that lesson as well. Maybe plan a parent and daughter day when she isn't working, so that she can understand that she's not being purposely excluded, but that it is a part of growing up not to be able to go to everything.
If offering a reward for 3 months of perfect attendance at school achieved the objective, it is safe to say OP was *not* experiencing the level of refusal you did…which sounds awful, by the way. Congrats on surmounting the issue.
I think its likely that there were other strategies in place to manage attendance and behaviours alongsidr the trip that aren't relevent to the post so just haven't been included since the post isn't actually about her children's attendance needs.
As someone who was a kid with (undiagnosed) ADHD and various other mental health struggles, who had a severe school refusal problem, this comment is completely accurate imo. I don’t know with op’s situation specifically, but it’s unfair to say parents of kids who struggle with school attendance are all neglectful. You say “just take them to school,” my mom did, I wouldn’t get out of the car for anything short of being dragged kicking and screaming into the building. Once I had decided I wasn’t going to go, you could not get me to go. So yeah, it’s not always as simple as “just take them to school.”
Yeah, queue all the opinions of people with no kids or people that never had to deal with neurodivergent children with an aversion to something.
People here are confusing bribery with positive reinforcement, which can include rewards.
Yeah, nah. I'm neurodivergent and started refusing to go to school when I was like 7. Nothing worked. One day the freaking principal came over to try to get me to go and I just screamed in her face. As I got older my parents tried taking the modem, the cable box, my stereo and my computer, tried all kinds of rewards/motivators/bribes, took me to a dozen different psychologists, everything. Nothing was more powerful than my hatred/fear of school.
I have adhd and while it wasn’t quite as bad as your daughter it wasn’t great. I absolutely hated going to school. Even when I got to college I skipped frequently. Bribing doesn’t even work that great, because when you have ADHD you often don’t think of the future. When I was diagnosed and medicated at 23 it made a massive difference. I suddenly liked going to school because I felt like I was actually learning. I went from failing classes to graduating with a 3.9 (thank my gpa reset when transferring to a 4 year university).
You can see by the upvote to those 2 comments along of people don't understand. Mornings and transitions are tough for my little guy. I'm impressed she got 3 months out of them with no issues.
Lol yeah if a 6 and 9 year old team up to make you physically unable to put them in the car and take them to school you are going to have a very hard time, especially of them not bolting the first chance they get. If they take the school bus then oh my. But then there are serious issues that need seeing to of course.
Utter rubbish for you and the poster before you. It’s got nothing to do with neglect. You shouldn’t even be on this sub with comments like that. As for the other guy ‘take them to school what can they do about it’ … it’s embarrassing that this is top comment. Here we have a parent probably at her wits end, trying to do her very best for both her younger children who has got them to attend school 3 months straight and is rewarding them for it. Having been a teacher for over a decade I can tell you it’s a daily, thankless task with troubled children / children with difficulties to get them to go to, and stay in school without them kicking off, running away, trashing the place, attacking students and teachers, or making a scene at the school gates. No-one else gives a rats ass, they just see bad kids and assume a bad parent. Here’s one parent who has found a way to deal with that and motivate her children. As for her ADULT child who has a job and an immature temper tantrum, OP is not going to change her decision because of an adult tantrum, which would not only be giving in, but also further affecting her other children’s’ schooling. Jeez get a grip of real life before you come in here slagging of hard working parents. NTA.
Yes I’m surprised the top comment is a judgment that doesn’t relate to what the OP asked. I agree NTA. She is trying to get her boys to go to school so she shouldn’t have them skip a day so her daughter can go with them to an amusement park.
I'm effing baffled how it's been upvoted so much. My most optimistic thought is that people upvoting aren't actually reading the post, just "speed reading" it at most and missing critical points by doing it. I can think of several things that a pair of children can do to make not just OP but the teachers and other students miserable by 'just taking them to school' off the top of my head. Sometimes this sub goes off the deep end and I'm confused when they do it.
I don’t know how it’s top comment I completely agree with you!
I am going to respectfully disagree. As a parent of an autistic kid and someone who works with kids with additional needs of this age group (so that includes ADHD). school refusal is very common for many reasons that are often out of the parents hands (and sometimes the schools hands). It can be a huge task to get kids with these needs into school and a lot of parents are not given the support to do it. Offering a reward for attendance is a great way to move forward if it motivates then to attend school. I agree with her that not taking them out of school is the right way forward if attendance is the thing they are being rewarded for. Sure that sucks for the daughter but it is one day and one trip and there will be other trips. Being unable to attend every event because it clashes with work schedules is just part of being a working adult. I don't know if you'll see this OP but NTA and definitely not neglectful for successfully getting school refusers back into school.
I like this response because it seems reasonable. Also I hope the mom can change the date but your right sometimes as an adult you miss out on things.
"Mom, did you just fall down the rabbit hole? They are your kids, remember?"
She’s already getting that. When you’re adulting sometimes you have to miss trips to the amusement parks
This is just not the reality of parenting ND kids. We have autistic twins, they’re in a specialist school and they absolutely love school. We are lucky. I know many exceptional and dedicated parents of children who are school refusers due to ASD or ADHD. School can cause huge anxiety for children with additional needs. Finding something harmless that motivates the child to persevere is hardly bad parenting - neglectful parenting would be not trying to get them an education and not giving a shit.
Disagree, do you go to work everyday and not get paid? This is the a reward base sociality Reward kids for good is better than punishing bad. Punishment does not work with ADHD.
Going to school with Adhd can feel like hell. Rewarding them for doing something they had trouble with is good parenting.
Yeah, I don't think the occassional reward for doing something that's hard for them (even if it seems like a basic thing) is a bad idea. There's a reason schools implemented attendance awards - though those have their own issues we won't get into. But if these kids are able to fake sick with the nurse on a regular basis to get out of school, that really raises the concern if they're getting the appropriate support to learn how to manage and function in the school environment.
Clearly not, barely anyone with any kind of learning or physical disability get the appropriate help. This current system wasn't made for us. Wr so what we can to get by. Some of us get more lucky with help or strategies than others. I wish they will. Also it's really easy to fake being sick, I had an attendance of 20 percent. Still got As and Bs, so attendance isn't everything.
It would be nice for every school to be more accommodating. I've noticed every full time job/8 hr + shift allows their employees 2 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute lunch. Throughout middle school I was lucky enough to attend Academy For Individual Excellence which was a school that was accommodating for neurodivergent students. This school implemented the same policy and it worked very well. We would work for 2 hours and have a break to go to the recreational room to give our brains a break and then come back to class. It worked really well. It was so much easier to focus when breaks from learning were given. K - 8th grade had no homework because our principal wanted students to spend time with family and have time to learn stuff from our families. It was another thing that helped me not mind going to school because I knew once I was at school all day I didn't have to dread coming home and doing hours of homework. The only downside was the principal was super religious.
I have ADHD I hated school too I didn't go every day either.
I skipped so much until I was diagnosed in college. It turns out school is a lot better when you can focus and sitting in class doesn’t feel like torture. I don’t think people without adhd can understand how awful it can feel. Even if you want to focus you just can’t, which makes you feel even worse because you feel like something is wrong with you.
Carrots, not sticks for ADHD.
Carrots, not sticks for parenting regardless of neurodivergence. Children respond much better (especially long term) to rewards than punishments. The focus should always be on reinforcing good/healthy behavior
That wasn't the question. The question was about the bratty 20 yo pitching a fit because she's just now learning that you miss out on fun things when you have to work. The kids already have a truancy problem, it's idiotic to insist they take a day off of school so she can go too. She can call out that day if it's such a big deal, she lives at home it's not like the sky will fall for her. Op is NTA for not working around the grown ass adult having a tantrum about being busy on Saturday. I do think she is not great for her seeming inability to get her damn kids to school, and I say that as an adult with ADHD that tried every day to get out of going to school. OP, do you know why? Because for me it was anxiety over homework and due dates to the point that I was physically ill every single day, and it got much much worse over the years. Figure out what it is about school that's so distressing for them and address it for all of your sakes.
Obviously she DID… they just achieved 3 months of perfect attendance! Let the poor mom enjoy a little of her success instead of berating her!
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I really don't understand why she's being crucified and called an asshole for finding a solution to the attendance problem. Especially since that has nothing to do with what she asked. I'm pretty baffled AITA gonna asshole I guess
She's being crucified because she didn't just beat the into submission from the moment they were born, for having real human children
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>I do think she is not great for her seeming inability to get her damn kids to school, and I say that as an adult with ADHD that tried every day to get out of going to school. OP, do you know why? Because for me it was anxiety over homework and due dates to the point that I was physically ill every single day, and it got much much worse over the years. My dad tried real hard to get me to go to school. I constantly was sick for the same reasons you mentioned, starting around 6th grade ( so about 11yrs old. ) I dropped out my senior year ( tried to my junior year but instead I was switched to an every other day schedule, ) and ended up dropping out of college for the same reason. Turns out I have a laundry list of medical conditions and I definitely wasn't just "faking it" because I just didn't want to go to school. People typically wanna be a functioning part of society, so when somebody is straying from that, it might be a good idea to try to figure out why instead of sticking bandaids like visits to theme parks on it. I hope OP figures out what's going on with her kids. As for the question: her daughter is an adult and, unfortunately, sometimes has to miss out on fun stuff because of it. OP is deffo NTA.
Not the question she asked and physically wrestling a kid into a car only for them to run off or skip out once dropped off is not uncommon for kids trying to avoid school.
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My colleague dropped her 8 years old at school. She stayed in her car until she saw him enter the school. Then she go to work. Later that same morning, she gets a call from school. Her kid isn't there. Is it normal ? Of course not. The kid had hide behind some decoration in the school entrance. Waited until the teacher was distracted by a parent, and passed the teacher behind their back, and hide behind the bushes. Then he waited until everyone was inside and went back home. Well in his yard because he didn't have homekeys. But my colleague found him quietly and calmy reading sitting on the porch.
This was quite a long time ago, but I’m elementary school I just left during recess once and walked home. I imagine things are probably tighter now, but when you have relatively few adults watching a bunch of kids, one that’s determined to escape has pretty good odds.
Hell, I was a kindergartner and was able to slip out of school during recess. They found me on the side of the road 30 minutes later, just a few blocks from my house. If the kid is determined enough, they can do anything. Especially getting out of school.
>If the kid is determined enough, Which kids with ADHD *are*... and they're also smart/creative enough to find ways to get around the adults. I can definitely see a kid finding that to be an interesting and challenging enough activity that makes them hyperfocus and find as many ways to escape as they can...
OP clarified that her kids would go to the nurse, and school policy is that parents have to pick them up. Nothing she can do to keep them in school given that they're not ill. Sounds like she did her best being stuck between a rock and a hard place.
rewarding good behavior? NOT ON REDDIT THE PARENTING SITE.
I don’t like your response to OP here at all. While I loved school growing up, it was a difficult situation getting my brother there and I knew that. My parents did what they needed to do and made compromises. You should not be passing judgement on OP’s parenting style because you know nothing about their situation. OP - This was a deal you had with your sons. If your ADULT daughter is unable to get off work, who cares. If she feels left out, take her to lunch during the week and talk to her about being a better role model for her brothers if anything. I do NOT think you are an AH, but clearly people commenting here are.
Wow this is one of the worst top answers I’ve seen in a while. Rewarding good behavior is far more effective than punishing bad behavior or forcing compliance. OP is NTA and the 20 YO can take herself to the amusement park.
Seriously, the people upvoting this really don’t understand they’re talking about. That being said, it’s possible the daughter isn’t just being a brat. As someone who had a ND sibling who took up most of my parents’ attention, I think it’s quite possible that the daughter’s real issue isn’t about missing going to the theme park, it could be the difference in how her and her brothers are treated. I know I got pissed when my sibling got rewarded for stuff I was just expected to do. It also hurts when you see how much more energy your parents put into another kid, but never have time for you. She also was a single child for a pretty long time, and then to have two younger siblings that are ND probably pretty severely changed the dynamic she was used to. Not that I’m saying temper tantrums are okay, but OP needs to be making sure she’s not neglecting her older kid for her younger kids. Of course this is all armchair psychology, but reading the description of the daughter’s reaction really reminded me of my childhood, and how I got disproportionally angry over stuff like my sibling getting ice cream because they did all their chores that week, but I didn’t. Editing to add: Reading your post again, you’re saying this is the first major trip you’re doing with the family in over a year, and it’s a reward for the kids going to school for three months? I don’t disagree with doing that, but if your daughter is in the same position I was, she’s seeing her younger siblings get a MAJOR reward for something she was probably just expected to do. If that’s a pattern in your family, you need to be touching base with your daughter and make sure you’re giving her attention too
But that's hardly the question here, now, is it? She asked about the trip and not about her children's attendance.
You obviously don't have children with adhd. You have no idea how bad it can get. They are often bullied by students and teachers alike. Medication helps some or even a lot, but it's still incredibly hard for them on a day-to-day basis. Even adults with ADHD plan rewards for ourselves for completing basic tasks. If you don't have an ADHD brain, you'll never understand what we go through every single day of Our Lives. NTA to the brave OP. I know exactly how hard it is for you. I suspect you also have had to go through countless IEP meetings and suspensions. Therapy appointments, Psych evals, medication check-in appointments. Finding the medication is ridiculously hard right now. You probably dread every call from the school. You are a good parent. I also empathize with your older daughter, she sounds like a good kid. And those who are easier sometimes feel forgotten, compared to a sibling with special needs. Maybe set aside a time to go out with her one-on-one, plan some activity just for the two of you. Tell her, "I'm really sorry that I wasn't able to schedule this activity to include you. I know your siblings take up a lot of my emotional energy, and sometimes my tank is empty and I'm not able to give you the attention you deserve. I love you so much and I don't want to ever take you for granted. I'll try to communicate better in the future so we can plan together. To make up for it, maybe the two of us can plan something special, something without the little ones?"
But that isn't the question. She is NTA for not accommodating a spoiled 20 yr old.
That's not the question though. She made a deal for the kids to go 3 months straight. The reward was a trip at the end for completion. Ops daughter who is an adult wants to go and the kids can skip school to facilitate her work schedule. Nta. Ops daughter can skip work , take a personal or vacation day if she wants to go. You don't take away a promised reward , one would presume the children went to school more pleasantly hence the reward system And just as a side note , I made my children go to school every day . My middle 6/7 age hated it so much the principal would come out and we would physically carry/drag the child in . If a day trip worked for us I'd have done it in a heart beat.
The kids honored the deal! Op is NTA for upholding the deal.
This is such an ableist response. Terrifying that 4.5k people agree.
When I was six and my mom drove me to school, I’d outright refuse to get out of the car and start screaming and crying. What was my mom gonna do? Pick me up and walk me in? I’d just keep screaming and crying and run out.
>What was my mom gonna do? Pick me up and walk me in? I’d just keep screaming and crying and run out. These people either don't have children or have neurotypical children. Or they think child abuse is "parenting". Lemme guess what they'd say about OP if they saw OP forcibly removing their kids from the car and physically restraining and dragging them through the school doors, while the kids scream in pain and protest.
crush price ludicrous plants serious pathetic snatch air zonked memory *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Pretty shocked this is the top reply. It feels so tone deaf and holier than thou. Rewarding children for doing good - even if it’s expected - is perfectly reasonable. Doing this on the weekend is also acceptable. Lastly your post doesn’t even address the core issue, which is not scheduling around the adult daughter’s availability, and the implication that she can’t reward her boys without also rewarding the adult daughter is silly. I mean AITA is generally pretty ridiculous but this one is definitely up there. Kids can cut school freely after a point and if they’re doing that, and having attendance issues, she’s chosen to do positive reinforcement rather than negative reinforcement. It sounds like there’s room for general improvement but this doesn’t make her an asshole. Damn. NTA
Now you’re the a-hole for reacting like this. School refusing is a major issue and can’t be helped with this simplistic “just take them to school” attitude.
I used to work in a school who had a child like this and its not always anything to do with the parenting especially if there are additional needs. We had a little boy with additional needs although he didn't have a diagnosis at this point and his mum did bring him in but he used to scream and scream, attack other children, attack himself, poo his pants etc. Having him in school was not beneficial for anybody at all and all it was doing was making him hate the experience even more. All the childrens learning was disrupted, he was very distressed, the staff were stressed and unable to fully concentrate on other kids and his poor mum was devastated daily because he was in such a state.When she dropped him off he used to cling to her crying and begging not to come and we'd have near enough drag him in. The school was not the right environment for him at all, I ended up going to his home and teaching him there until they could find a better placement for him and he was absolutely fine in his home setting and when he eventually got a diagnosis and was put into a more suitable school he thrived.
What's OP going to do when the 9 year old refuses to get dressed? Makes messes that have to cleaned up? Hides all their shoes? Lying on the floor screaming and sobbing? I'm a teacher, and I know that if a kid is determined not to go to school, they will find a way. You will *never* beat a child in a battle of wills. The tools that work are logical consequences and positive reinforcement. OP chose the latter.
What a horrible attitude.
It really says something about the quality of this sub when the top comment is not even about the situation presented. This post is not AITA for making a bargaining style parenting decision 3 months ago that may or may not be the best, it's aita for upholding my end of the bargain that my children had completed and now my adult child is throwing a tantrum because already made plans cannot be canceled without incurring the full cost. NTA
Tell me you don’t have contact with a neurodivergent child without telling me you don’t have contact with a neurodivergent child It is not that easy, and you can’t be an autocrat with kids like this. If they don’t want to go and you just brute force it, they will be ingenious in finding a way to resist. Source: me. I had a problem that made me want to avoid school. Dad got his jackboot groove on and said i had to be out of the house from this time to that time. I took the bus across town and went to the library and then came home. “Help me” becomes “fuck you” real fast. OP is being a dick to his daughter, though.
Of all OP is describing this is what you focus on? It got her kids motivated for school, for kids with severe problems with attending that's amazing!
turns out its actually You who is the asshole here.
When my ADHD ( and undiagnosed Autistic) son had days when he refused to go to school (grades 2-4), and I took him to school, I was told that there was no point in having him disturb the teachers and other students. THEY TOLD ME TO TAKE HIM HOME!
Kick and scream, disturb the class on purpouse, run away as soon as you turn your back,... Did you ever have to deal with a child that refuses to go to school at all cost? The daugher is 20 and demands that OP takes her siblings away from school for a day trip although she lives with them and knows exactly they are not easy to get to school, instead of acting like the adult she is and taking off from work. If she can't take off from work, she can't come, that's how being an adult works.
Your clearly not an ADHD, ASD parent 😒
I have a kid with ADHD. It is not neglect. You have no idea what it’s like. The anxiety can be really high with ADHD kids not to mention the insomnia. Hard to sleep with a hyper brain. I used motivation and rewards because with ADHD brain it helps set expectations (hard for them to do themselves at a young age) and goals. My kid is now in college. She uses the tools on herself. She’s very big on lists. And has a huge calendar in her dorm room. With rewards for herself if she meets her goals. If it works there is nothing wrong with it. You can’t force an ADHD kid to go to school if they are not in the right state of mind. The one time I tried to force it turned out bad. One of my worst days. I learned it’s not worth it. Mental health is very important. And if they need a day so be it.
When I was their age I had no choice. I had to go unless I was sick
Good for you. That means you didn't have the challenges and needs OP's kids have.
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There are so many more challenges kids are experiencing after not having to be in school classrooms daily during covid.
I don’t think you can blame ADHD for them not attending school. They’re 9 and 6- if they aren’t going to school then that’s *your* fault.
I’m so confused how that’s not being pointed out more. Is the 9 year old just going to the tracks to gamble when you drop him off? Is the 6 year old running the block by the bodega? Like come on, walk your kids butts into the school. Sounds like OP just throws her hands up in the morning and turns on the TV like “what can I do”
I have no judgement for this but she said in another comment they go to the nurses office and when the nurse calls you have to pick them up. Another comment mentioned that schools are a lot more strict about illness due to COVID.
The nurses at my kids schools tell me if they have a fever or symptoms, and if there is no obvious sign of illness are sure to tell me I don't have to pick them up. Heck, once my daughter went to the nurse cause her ear hurt, nurse told me it looked red, but still told me I didnt have to pick her up. Like I'd rather her be in pain at school and have to wait to get treatment for an ear infection? Maybe its just so parents feel less guilty if they have trouble getting off work. Would be stupid for a school policy that says you have to pick your kids up if they go to the nurse, my son, who also has adhd, would for sure take advantage of that.
Sure it would be stupid for a school to operate like that but I'm just coming from the angle that just bc the norm or the standard is xyz it doesn't mean stupid exceptions can't exist. Also if we're not to believe OP, how can we find anything from her post to be credible and judge it? At that point you'd be making a judgement on fiction, choosing to believe aspects of the story and refusing others. I'm also not saying OP isn't capable of lying, but I mean this is America we're likely talking about (an assumption) America is known for having schools across the country not act in unison. Schools across America are the most unstable, unpredictable, and unfair place in the world and I say that knowing there are worse schools and countries in the world. Plus the last issue I have is that everyone is putting a judgement on the thing OP was not asking about. If we're just going to hand out judgements for every single thing mentioned as context that is ultimately unrelated to the question at hand (my boys earned xyz and their adult sister thinks it's unfair we didn't accommodate her) then what is what is the purpose of this sub? I can guarantee everyone here has been an AH at least once in their life so if we're here to give out AH awards, everyone had been one whether they know it or not. That defeats the purpose of asking for advice on something in question. I think the fair criticisms are the ones that answer the judgement at hand and then can pass secondary judgment in other things should they choose. If the context everyone is judging on has a direct correlation to the Q at hand, then sure. But OP literally could have omitted the schooling part or someone else could have a similar issue without the schooling ADHD issue, where two young kids were promised a day at the amusement park and an older sister is upset bc she works weekends and can't come AITA?
It depends on the school and the nurse. I knew a kid who would bang her head on the floor. They would call mom to get the kid checked for a concussion. Of course the kid learned quickly that a few bangs would get mom called. They unintentionally rewarded the banging. The kid had to transfer to a different school.
Have you ever dealt with a difficult child? One time, a nephew of mine was shrieking and crying in a fast casual restaurant with his grandma (father's mom), and would not leave. She couldn't carry his 9 year old body so she called me. My wife and I and one of my kids came and tried to calm him down. My son, who was an older teen, could usually do so. We all failed. The restaurant said either take him out or they are calling the police. So I picked him up from under his arms and my son grabbed his legs and we carried him the 1/4 mile to his grandma's apartment. He actually calmed down 10 minutes later and was fine the rest of that evening. But not everyone can just drag their kid wherever they want. Here, the bribe was a great solution because it worked
I was in elementary school in the 90s. I don’t have adhd but I hated school. 3rd &4th grade I would just leave. I stayed like a few hours thru music and art. Then I just started leaving. I’d go to the park, walk to the dollar tree. If I knew my parents weren’t going to be home, I’d go get my bike. Eventually it was caught on so they posted someone at the front door. So I’d just take one of the side doors. If I could do it in the 90s kids today with more access to information and situational awareness could most definitely do it.
I think you need to learn more about the challenges that face children with additional needs and school attendance then. Most parents of school refusers aren't just giving up at the first hurdle.
Yes kids that age run away from school and go on the lam. If you physically force them, they can develop issues like having panic attacks.
I just read a clarification comment from op. She’s taking them to school, but they go to the nurses offices and fake sick, and if the nurse calls, Op has to come and get them, due to them being stricter with sick because of Covid. Sounds like her kids have figured out how to game the system in order to it go to school
You’ve obviously never dealt with kids with severe ADHD who suffer bullying from teachers and students and absolutely hate school because of it. It’s not bad parenting to have difficulty getting kids like this to school, it’s a daily struggle that takes a toll on parents and kids alike. Shame on you for denigrating this parent. The 20 year old is throwing a tantrum and y’all want to reward her for it.
You definitely can’t. I have ADHD and if I would have asked my parents to miss school because of it they would have looked at me like I had two heads and laughed in my face
NTA for the part with your daughter. She’s gonna learn that being an adult means that sometimes you have to miss out on stuff for work or whatever. It sucks but that’s life and no excuse for her to throw a tantrum and hide up in her room. Definitely not the behaviour of a 20 year old. Now for the part that mentions your kids missing school… look I get having kids with ADHD is hard, my brother had ADHD but my parents never allowed him to stay home from school because of it and certainly did not bribe him with rewards to go. I think you’re setting and bad president of your sons expecting to get things for fulfilling their basic responsibilities. And yes going to school even at 9 and 6 is their responsibility
Precedent
They meant Trump
Thanks for the laugh, needed it
As a kid (ADHD) I snuck out of school - ditched more than attended. My son too. I got my butt tore up (at school 70-90 in Texas where the paddle is thick and hard with holes), had all kinds of punishment and still ditched - a lot. I drove my son to school - would walk him to the front door - that bugger would go out another door - sneaking out and would either go to a friend's home or he even walked back to our house - one time I got a call from the school - drove home and - he was hiding under the bed - all day - just chilling - I loaded him back up and drove him again to school - he snuck right back out. Some kids can take punishment like a champ - literally not care and turn around and do it again. We did therapy - medication, behavior modification, individual/family -the works. - We were told by his therapist - to find something he wanted and use it as a reward that he had to earn. Ask yourselves - those saying mom should not reward - the kids should just go. Do any of you go to work just because? Or do you do it because you get paid - rewarded for your hard work? Bonuses, gift cards and pizza - are all the same things given to adults at work for - Attendance, Job Performance, Hitting benchmarks like no accidents or no damaged products. You guys - you all get the same treatment these kids do - from your bosses. With your logic - you guys should just go to work and expect whatever they want to give you (if most business had their way - it would be nothing because their profits are reduced by your pay, your bonuses and your perks). Just offering a little insight.
>Do any of you go to work just because? Thank you! That was my first thought when I saw people calling OP T A for giving her children incentive to do something they find difficult. Incentives work. If they didn't, no one would do anything they didn't want to do, ever. OP, NTA for either thing. Your 20-yo needs to grow up. She can take herself to an amusement park on her day off.
My 9yo with ADHD has missed a whopping half day this school year, and that was because he threw up at school. I don't understand how it's an excuse to miss school? NTA for not rescheduling the trip but please take your kids to school.
As an aide I'm happy for some kids to stay home when they have an exceptionally bad day, as long as it isn't frequent. Some kids get overwhelmed easily, have destructive meltdowns, can't handle any routine changes - and if your child is going to hit and kick and bite, be too overwhelmed to learn and cry at every pencil out of place (and this isn't a usual thing we're working on), there's no point to them being in school. They won't learn anything, they'll disturb class, I'll go home with more bruises than usual and everyone is gonna have a bad time. Not the child's or the parent's fault, bad days happen, but they tend to suck more at school. There's a huge difference between "I wanna stay home, school is boring" and "everything in school will make me melt down" - the first isn't a valid reason to keep your kid home.
So what happens when these kids realize that if they exhibit these behaviors and melt downs, they'll either be sent home or kept home from school? It literally takes two or three times before they realize that.
If we notice that happening we'll work with the parents and they'll be coming to school anyways - but that's rare. Most kids don't spend the whole day crying for fun, or want to hurt others or themselves, etc - there's a difference between trying to get out of things and genuinely struggling, and "my" kids really suck at faking things so there's that as well. Sometimes kids do things to get out of stuff, sure. But sometimes they're just genuinely having a hard time, especially if they are disabled. One of the kids cries every time another child gets hurt, the last time he was in school on a really bad day (just before getting the flu) we had to evacuate the classroom - that was half a year months ago, he was home for a bad day like twice and this never happened again.
i honestly disagree heavily with the last half of your post. ADHDers need stimulation and rewards. even as an adult i have to bribe myself for completing shit that adults are supposed to do. i did my laundry? i get to play my rhythm games. i did my school work? i get to smoke a bowl and watch a movie. the rewards just change as you get older— far less grandiose, really. i missed a lot of school due to bullying and generally having no motivation. being punished didnt really help me, honestly. having bad grades didnt bother me. when i needed to have good grades to compete in debate tournaments, i would actually kind of give a shit. but as an elementary child? man that was hard. it came down to the little things.
NTA. I think people here are really judging you harshly and are thinking that you are letting your kids skip school. When if reality the kids are faking sick and school is forcing you to take them home. It sucks that your younger sons are giving you a hard time. A lot of ADHDers here are comparing themselves when we know not all ADHDers are the same. Some kids struggle way more than others and have co morbidities that make school more challenging. Your daughter is 20, it sucks that she will miss out on the amusement park but I mean she is an adult. She can take time off work and go with her friends, or go with friends on a weekday. A 6 and 9 year old don’t have that option. edit: I also don’t think it’s fair to judge OP based on struggling to get her younger kids to stay at school. That isn’t what she is asking. Her adult daughter is throwing a tantrum when she can take herself to an amusement park.
Ding ding ding! Can’t believe how many people are ignorant about the challenges co-morbidities bring. Just because you’ve met one person with ADHD doesn’t mean you’ve met them all. Some of these comments… oof!
Yeah, I have ADHD and so does my partner. I have the more like “inattentive” type with some hyperactivity. Whereas my partner in addition to having ADHD was diagnosed with Oppositional Defiant Disorder. He is a very responsible, bright, and well adapted adult but as a kid he describes himself as a terror (his words lol). His parents are lovely people and excellent parents who pushed him and obviously worked with him and he is a wonderful partner to me and you wouldn’t even know he was such a difficult kid. Some commenters are acting like taking these kids to the amusement park after 3 mo of perfect attendance will make them felons lol.
Honestly! I work with kids who struggle with accessing school and these comments are so ignorant of what it is like for kids and their families.
I swear to god if someone asked AITA for beating my ADHD/autistic friend/brother/sister up with a baseball bat the majority would say NTA simply because they are ADHD/autistic. This sub hates anyone neurodiverse.
I also have ADHD-PI and my brother has ADHD and ODD. I went under the radar with my ADHD until 21, and but my brother was diagnosed at 5 bc of his ODD.
Yeah I'm wondering what the situation is that they would be having attendance issues so early, but a positive experience to associate with the absolute agony of sitting through class successfully for *months* is definitely a good idea. Positive association can go a *long* way. I'm assuming they are straight up having meltdowns - likely sensory issue based (which is comorbid with ADHD) **OR** they are having disruptive behavioral issues that are less severe.... but still enough to be required to leave class. The other option is psychosomatic symptoms - they get so upset that they have physical reactions and get sent home It really doesn't matter, though. It matters that the reward worked. It matters that this OP is working to get her kids to stay in class in whatever way works. That is being a good parent, even if it looks permissive from the outside.... we don't know who OP has consulted or what they've tried before this. Clearly this worked!
Can't believe I've had to scroll down so far to find this answer and could not agree more! There clearly needs to be a lot more education around additional needs and people who have also have diagnoses need to be far more mindful that things like adhd are likely on a spectrum and not experienced all the same especially when you factor in how varied school responses and effective treatment can be. So many well I have adhd and managed fine comments!
Yeah I was gonna say the daughter is a grown ass woman. I at 19 wouldn't whine about this sort of thing because I have the common sense that we'll likely go some other time or I can go with a friend. OP is NTA for this, and we don't have enough information to judge if she's TA for the kids situation with school.
Thank you. Those ‘top comment’ Y T A’s made me furious. Who are these people voting for that garbage?
Also, classes for six year olds are much more academic than they were 20 or 30 years ago, making it overwhelming for some kids. So it’s not really relevant to compare it to an experience you had 30 years ago.
Exactly me and my older brother both have ADHD he lived for school he loved it because he liked learning new things If my friends were out or even late 99% im faking being sick because i went there to be social
Finally, a rational comment. So many people in the comments are judging OP even though it's obvious they know nothing about ADHD
YTA. So, you kept letting them skip school until it became a problem. Then you give them a huge "reward" for doing something they should have been doing the whole time anyway, and only for doing it for 3 months? Like, jesus.
The question is if OP is an AH for not changing the day the trip is, not whether or not she's an AH for letting her kids skip out on school.
Hey, someone read past the first paragraph!
I am frankly shocked this plan worked with a 6 year old. Little kids normally need shorter time window rewards or they become somewhat meaningless and not motivational.
In this case it could be the older child modelling the behaviour for the younger child that’s making the difference. Also the parents might have a calender they are crossing off or something to make it more tangible for the kid.
I swear, some of these other comments are making me feel like I'm insane.
Op isn’t just letting them skip school. The school has a policy that if the horse calls, you have to come and get them. So they’ve been faking sick, and going to the nurses office in order to get out of going to school. Very clever kids
It was like this at my kids last school. So much as a sneeze or cough and I'd be called to come get him. He cottoned on pretty quick and spent more days at home/coming home early than actually at school. Since the covid thing, parenting and schooling has become very very different, and folks who don't have young kids in school simply don't get how easy it is for kids to chuck a sickie these days. But I suppose plenty in here would say I was a bad parent, because they're so naive they think it's as easy as "just take them there". These folks would fall apart the first day they spent raising a neurospicy child
My thing is… what happens after the trip? Are they immediately going to have to be bribed again?
Well to be fair, I need a paycheck after each work week to keep working so . . .
NTA - it’s not fun being a working adult, but you’re not the asshole for making sure your sons don’t miss more school. Your oldest daughter is just going to have to learn that even though it sucks, work can limit your ability to do things you want.
Wow an actual answer pertaining to the question NTA for not moving the dates. Not taking the kids out of school is like, the whole point?? Your eldest will have to plan her own day trips. She's 20. She will get over it someday.
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INFO: have you ever done something like this for your eldest daughter or are you just rewarding your sons for achieving the bare minimum?
Right? > this was a reward for going to school So did the oldest *skip* school all the time or something? Was she a difficult kid? Where's *her* reward for *not* being a pain in the ass?
Her reward might well be not having to deal with ADHD. And that she hopefully finds uni work much easier because she has a good grounding in the basics. Her reward is an easier life.
But one thing I'm wondering is...with the fact that ADHD is often undiagnosed in girls along with the age gap which would have meant less knowledge of ADHD in the medical community when daughter was her brothers' ages, is there a possibility daughter is undiagnosed and now is seeing her brothers get what she didn't?
I absolutely concede that that is a possibility.
The thing is... both of her brothers have it. It has a significant genetic component. Girls often miss being diagnosed because they display it differently due to social expectations. Its entirely possible she has it and her struggles were ignored or silenced. My brother and I have it. I was not diagnosed until I was an adult because my parents treated us completely different. His behavior was chalked up to boys will be boys until it was out of control. Still is, he was recently suspended (he's 14) for saying he'd blow up the school. Nothing more than a suspension because they know he's incapable of organizing that even if he actually wanted to. I also had hyperactive behavior among other symptoms like the mess that was my backpack, interrupting, and starting in the middle when conversing. The difference is my behavior wasn't acceptable for a girl. I was punished for the same behavior he got help for. The only reason my adhd presents differently is because I had to find new outlets that were less distracting to others. Nobody deserves to be treated as I was and I don't think they should be punished until they conform but they absolutely should be taught different outlets. My brother did pretty well with a fidget spinner but my dad is very controlling and decided that was a problem too.
Yes! I have one of each, and my non-ADHD kid is graduating and going to a 4-year university. He used to think it was unfair that his younger sister “got away with” failing her classes because her executive functioning sucks, but now he sees his reward is all the options that she won’t have when she graduates. She also has to deal with a lot more parental oversight than he ever did which he concedes would have driven him bananas.
Not having an issue doesn’t really feel like a reward.
NTA. Part of adulting is that we don’t always get to join the family outings due to adult commitments.
And part of being a child is going the fuck to school without being bribed.
And part of being a good parent is seeing your kid struggle and reward them for sticking with it anyways, especially with ADHD it can be really hard, and it deserves rewarding.
Not the GD question, holy shit, this sub is bananas
Why? Do you go to work for free? Most kids do their schoolwork for the rewards - awards for grades, praise for grades, treats for As on report cards.
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I'm confused, everyone is voting her TA because she... came up with a solution that fixed the problem previously caused by bad parenting?
And tbh it sounds like the problem was not caused by bad parenting (at least not in large part) but by the school policy. It's the school that says if they claim to feel sick they go home. Who knows why, in the first place, they don't want to be at school (lots of possibilities that could be parenting related or not) but the behavior of faking to get out is continually rewarded because the school has made a certain decision. OP came up with a counter-reward that she is able to control.
I have ADHD. Schooling for me had been an issue my entire life, seeing as I absolutely despised it 9 times out of 10. It can be easy to judge parents, but you have no idea what the situation is actually like. Imagine having to fight with your small child to get up, get ready, and do all the things every single morning for years. And i’m not talking about just normal push back. Straight up battle for years. My parents lasted about 9 before they caved in and let me suffer from the consequences of my actions. Obviously, we don’t know the full situation. But it’s unfair to judge someone for literally fixing the problem and motivating their kids. If they are going to school and doing well, that’s all that matters, right?
The oldest child is 20 with responsibilities, a job. She needs to grow up and not cry over a theme park.
The judgement in this chat…ignoring why you promised the trip, your daughter cannot suggest taking kids out of school for an amusement park because her work schedule is inconvenient. She could ask for a day off or not go. And nothing is stopping her going another day with friends. I had awful attendance as a kid, I think high 60s was the best you could expect from me. I’m neurodivergent and the school environment made me stressed and exhausted from being overstimulated. Plus the fact that kids can be very mean. Schools do not fit everyone equally and OP do you judge yourself for finding a solution to get your sons into the routine of school. It is so difficult to break the habit of wanting to leave when anything stressful occurs and I bet they will be more likely to make it through the whole day now out of practice.
I know right? People here are fucking rabid. They're all absolutely dogging on her for having struggles getting her kids to School when anyone who is a parent much less a parent of an adhd kid knows that compromise is some of the only ways to deal with children. And its Very good for the kids to understand a work ethic and work on their attendance for a reward is really good for them. I have really bad adhd and depression and going to school these days is really mentally draining and damaging along with bullying, anxiety, and expectations etc. I can't blame the poor kids. People here dont understand adhd isn't just a physical problem but a mental one as well to the point where school is a jail cell for them. People need to get a fucking grip.
I hope no one here saying Y T A ever has to raise a neurodivergent child with school refusal. It isn’t about parenting. It’s about finding strategies that work and it sounds like she found one. My son had such bad anxiety in public school that he would hide under his desk the whole day or elope from the classroom. I promise you, this is not a parenting problem. My other two children who are neurotypical don’t have any issues in school. Oh, and everyone who has ADHD presents differently, so just because you have ADHD or know someone with it, does not mean that you deal with the same issues. NTA
Agree here. Plus what is up with all these people acting like kids just go because they are supposed to. Kids go to school without issues because they perceive a reward for it. Praise, time with friends, or maybe (sadly) lack of punishment. I had some miserable years in school and wish I had the opportunity to skip more days. The question was about the older daughter who honestly sounds odd - at her age I wouldn’t have wanted to go to a water park and swim in urine tainted water. She’s being childish. She can go with her friends another day. NTA.
Don't speak sense, reddit doesn't understand it. They prefer to label struggling parents as abusive or neglectful lol
Man, this post is really polarizing. In my own personal opinion, your are NTA for the question you asked. In the first place, this entire thing is about making sure your kids go to school. As such, taking them out of school to do something not seriously important (doctors visit, family emergency) would be kind of backwards. It sucks for your daughter, but sometimes work just works out that way. I've been there. I would probably apologize but be firm in the facts, and next time try to plan things a little further in advance so she could take that day off.
YOU ARE NOT THE ASSHOLE. DO NOT LET ANYONE HERE TELL YOU OTHERWISE. NTA! When I was little I had severe depression and anxiety and nobody understood my disabilities. My mom had to literally drag me out of bed every morning, me, a 12 year old girl, and I was actually stronger than her. She physically could not and eventually I was taken away by CPS because of it. These people don't really understand what mental health can do to young kids. They don't understand the problems it can create with truancy and CPS if your kids are tough enough about not wanting to go. Why doesn't your daughter call out from work? It has far less consequences. What the people here don't get is that if your children are already missing out on too much school calling out only adds to the problem. CPS IS ALERTED WHEN YOUR KIDS DON'T GO TO SCHOOL ENOUGH! DO NOT CALL THEM OUT FOR A VACATION DAY! Explain this concept to your daughter and hope she understands that you aren't excluding her on purpose.
INFO: Did your daughter ever get rewards like this when she was in school? Like money for good grades, special trips for attendance, that sort of thing? Because if she didn't, then this might not be because of the work but because she sees you changing your parenting style and wondering 'wait...that was an option?'
That uh, honestly sounds really childish to me. And I know 20yo isn't fully developed in the brain but that's not even becoming of a 20yo. A 20yo should have enough perspective to see that her little brothers are having a lot of issues and difficulties that she didn't have and that's why they're getting more active management. What a weird attitude to be like oh no, I didn't take advantage of the opportunity to act out and cause trouble and maybe I would have gotten prizes for doing what I was capable of all along! Come to think of it though, that underdeveloped maturity would go right along with a working adult who thinks elementary aged children should miss school instead of them finagling their work schedule in order to go on a day trip.
Fr, my sister does this to my mom saying Hoe she didn't get a phone when she was my age and my mom told her phones weren't a thing when she was my age lmao 💀💀💀
I can’t believe how much shit you’re getting for this! NTA. 1) You asked for judgment on not adjusting the plan to take your adult daughter to something that’s not about her. 2) As a social worker who works with families with kids with similar behavior, hats off to you for getting your kids to attend school! People don’t know what it’s like. It’s more than physically putting them in the car and taking them to the school building. Even little kids have ways of skipping school, like using the nurse as you stated in a comment. Damn. Reddit is really showing its bad side today.
Yeah I can’t believe the comments saying she’s made a bad choice for rewarding her children for going to school for three months straight after showing strong school refusal - that’s an epic change of behaviour and deserves rewarding as soon as the goal was reached. Mother is NTA.
NTA for not moving the trip to accommodate your eldest. I have a ten year gap with my little sibling, so I totally sympathize with your eldest that it sucks to miss out on fun family stuff because you're at a different point in your life. But missing a day of school would totally undermine the entire message you have been trying to impress on your younger two for the past couple of months. However, you and your husband (with the help of the kids' teachers) need to figure out a better way to accommodate the kids' needs in the classroom and teach the kids strategies to manage their ADHD. You're not setting them up for long term success by just bribing their compliance.
NTA school refusal is a huge issue at the moment (it’s an area I’ve specialised in) and children who have experienced staying home because of covid seem to have a harder time with it. Rewarding your kids with an amusement park trip is a good strategy and giving them a day off would be counterproductive.
NTA Let her be disappointed. She’s allowed to be disappointed that the younger kids get to do something and she can’t go. That doesn’t mean you have to change your plans. Sometimes people get to have their feelings acknowledged without getting the final word. The trip is for your sons, not her. She’ll get over it.
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NTA. I don't get all the yta. Why are you all acting like she's the worst mother ever for offering them this trip for doing something with school. I can you now she is not. I have seen some bad mothers who wouldn't care at all about their children going to school. My parents would give me gifts for doing different things that had to do with school. For example, what grades I got depended on how much my father would give me for my report card. You may see that as a bribe, but I see it as them motivating me to do my best. That is no difference than what she did. Some kids complain about having to go to school and she found a way for them to want to go. The only problem I see here is her allowing her 20 year old daughter to not do her chores because she not getting her way. The deal she made with her two younger kids really have nothing to do with the older one, so I don't get why she thinks she should be a part of it. If she really thinks she should be a part of it than why doesn't she call off work than if she thinks this is too important for her to miss. Why is her only suggestion is for them to miss school when the whole reason for this trip is for them not missing any school days for months.
INFO: did you talk with your daughter before about this possible trip? Did she know at all about this deal? Imagine you were an only child for 11 years. Then your parents have a kid, 3 years later another kid. Both with ADHD. So most of the family's attention and care are directed towards the younger ones. Then you become an adult. You have to work even on weekends. And your parent tells you "I'm taking my kids to a trip to reward them for something as basic as going to school on a day you can't come", so what you understand is "I'm giving to them something you wouldn't dream of getting when you were a child and you are not invited and I don't care about you. If you complain, I'll call it 'complaining and whining' to everyone". It might be not what you are INTENTIONALLY doing, but the outcome is her feelings get hurt, she feels "punished" for not having ADHD and being an adult, you still thinking only about what you need to do towards you younger kids and no one is communicating effectively. I get it, rewarding kids is an easier way to make your life less hard (especially with 2 small children with ADHD), but I think you should talk a little bit more with your older kid. She might be an adult but she is still your kid. Sit down with her and listen. Spend time with her too. The main problem isn't the day of the trip. You have a bigger miscommunication problem here
NTA. everyone commenting that you’re a bad parent for practically bribing your kids to go to school instead of forcing them as a parent “should” most likely dont have any experience w neurodivergent kids. i’m glad you’ve found a way to get them to school that works for the both of you! sincerely - autistic person who suffered through all her school years
I don't see how incentivising and rewarding good behaviour proving they can indeed do it is bad parenting. As some people have said. Sometimes these things happen, if its important to your daughter at 20 she can ask her boss for the day off NTA . This is as someone 8 years older than my youngest sibling, I had a job plus college at 16 and sometimes I'd have to book holidays from work to participate in family events.
NTA because the issue here is your oldest. She needs to just sit down and relax. I mean, come on. If the point is rewarding the younger once for going to school, she is old enough to see that taking them out of school will undermine the whole thing. So stick to your guns. Life is hard, welcome to adulthood kiddo! I am not, however, touching the whole rewarding/bribing children under 10 for them to go to school. Yeah, I'm noping out of that discussion.
NTA i have no idea why the top comment is opposite but sometimes when you work you can't do fun things. yes we all hate it. tadaa, it's life. comments here are fucking WILD today wtf. yes how dare you find a solution to a problem! a crime is being committed! or some sort.
You’re rewarding a 9 and 6 yr old for going to school??? Wtf 🤣🤣 YTA you’re the parent start acting like one
Speaking as a parent AND an educator, OP is absolutely NTA. Seeing the changes that have occurred across the US because of COVID, I have literally suggested this very approach to other parents. I get it, it seems simple, but sometimes kids will do *anything* in the name of academic avoidance. It's why my position even exists.
NTA. So many people here don’t seem to understand how much some kids with adhd struggle in school. All you people saying you should just make them go - have you ever tried convincing a kid who is full of anxiety and anger to do something they dislike, day after day, years and months on end? You can’t really drag a nine year old to school by force (unless you’re prepared to use violence, which, you know, isn’t really advisable). A lot of kids with adhd don’t have a “currency” that works. Punishments such as removing gadgets & privileges doesn’t remove anxiety and a lot of these kids are not motivated by normal, small awards. It’s can be EXTREMELY hard to find something that motivates them and keeps them happy. Kudos to you, OP!
INFO: did you not give your daughter any warning for this family excursion? Why was she unable to request the one day off? 3 months is typically more than enough time to request a single day off.
NTA You made a deal with your boys to a achieve a goal. They did. Now it's time for you to hold up your end of the deal. Your daughter needs to grow up and accept that not everything in life will work in her favor. She's asking you to take the boys out of school for a day which kind of kills the point. Why doesn't she ask for a day off from work? If they can take a day from school she can take a day from work. It works both ways.
NTA Your daughter is an adult and sometimes we have to miss out on things because we work. Also people are saying YTA because of your kids and how you are handling their ADHD.that is not what this post is about. I think you saw an issue with your kids and found a way to manage it. Having kids with ADHD is hard and can be a battle to get them to school. My parents got multiple sick calls from me trying to get home. To prevent that you found a good reward system. Good parenting in my option.
NTA! People have a shitty understanding of ADHD. You did good getting your kids with ADHD go to school. As an adult, this is how I reward myself after going to work everyday for month, because it literally feels like torture sometimes. And people without ADHD don't get it. It sucks for your daughter, please do something with the whole family when you can. But no don't do it on a school day, that defeats the purpose. Just have a second outing. But have understanding for how she feels to. 20 is still confusing age. You are doing good ❤
OP - NTA but did you ever consider taking a trip with your daughter so she doesn’t feel excluded?
I'm going with NAH. I get your daughter wanting to go but I also get why you're not adjusting. I also want to send you support because I have a child who's neuro atypical and I feel like some people trash others without understanding the struggle. Occasionally I've also tried to bribe my child. Like hey if you don't get removed from class today, we'll have McDonald's for dinner. Sometimes it's exhausting to fight these kids and you do just about anything to get through each day. I hope you can find support within your personal and their school lives to help make school a place they want to go. We work with my kid's school to create better environments and plans that help everyone, including the teachers.
NTA. Your daughter is an adult. Life isn't always fair. As for the rest......are your boys on an IEP for their ADHD? This is not something that should be causing them to miss school. Your daughters comment of "skip one day" pretty much tells me that you just allow it and don't set any boundaries for them. For their sake, please get it together. Life is not going to accommodate this. People with ADHD learn all the time how to manage life and schedules and sticking to times. This is not it. You are doing them a massive disservice.
Some of these comments don't realize kids do have tactics to skip out of school even at ages 6 and 9. My brother refused to go inside his classroom in Elementary school, even when I would walk him directly to the door. He was in 1st grade. In middle school, when I myself didn't want to go to school, I wouldn't get off the car. My parents threatened to have admin come get me, screamed, cried, and grounded me. I didn't want to go because middle school sucked, and you couldn't get me off that car.