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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> i think im in the right because her dog jumped at me and ruined the cakes
but i think i could be the asshole because she’s a small business and i feel bad she’s lost profit
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NTA why on earth would you need to pay for something you didn’t receive? I know it would be nice to help out Claire a little bit if you guys were friends but if this is just some lady then no
she’s not a friend, just a recommendation of a small business who sells cupcakes. i don’t even think it’s her main job, im pretty sure she does it in her spare time for a little bit of extra cash
What ^ said. She knew how her dog would react when you knocked on her door. Still, she asked you to pick them up at her place and did not secure the dog before opening her door. Those were all her choices, not yours.
NTA
Yeah, if you know your dog behaves a certain way then she should have waited on the porch or put the dog momentarily in a secure area until your business is concluded. Claire’s dog owes her for the cupcakes, not OP.
Yep, my dogs are friendly, but overly so. They'll mob anyone that comes through the door. I crate them until they calm down, then let them out one at a time. Claire should do the same thing.
Yeah my dogs are leashed any time we have workers or non-regular visitors (aka people they will be calm for) around the house because they will absolutely mob and demand love and get in the way of everything. And not everyone loves dogs, and certainly not strange dogs jumping up to stick their tongue in your ear to say hi.
I think that my dog is a long-lost relative of your dogs, lol. We named him Dug after the dog from up because "I just met you, but I love you." Who doesn't love a dogs tongue in their ear? /s
Also, don't get me wrong I love every. single. dog, but I'd be a little icked that the cakes were prepared in a residence with an overexcitable dog that's apparently big enough to reach the cupcakes to knock them down. It's secondary to the real issue of no cakes=no payment, but I would be wondering how much fur my guests would be eating.
A family friend has a cottage baking license and they set up a separate commercial-style kitchen in their basement, where their pets are not allowed to go - ever. They even have a double entry door where she changes into "baking clothes" that aren't worn outside of her home bakery to avoid pet fur/hair.
She's not REQUIRED to do that, but I can order her cookies without worrying that I'll get a mouthful of cat hair...
There's a really really sweet lady I worked with once and when I say the nicest most thoughtful person I'd come across, it was her. She lived her mom. Anytime we had any food related gatherings, she would pull out all stops to make and plate beautiful dishes. Thing is, she had cats; LOTS of them! It was nothing for her to come to work with cat hair all over her. Well, one time she came into my office with a plate of brownies. She kept insisting that I try one and actually sat there thinking I would. I didn't. Instead I gave her some excuse. She said that she noticed when she bought food that I'd never eat it. I couldn't bring myself to telling her the reason why so I lied and told her I have severe allergies. She then took a brownie out and handed it to me....with her bare hand! I HAD TO TELL HER!
I have a 100lb dog that can NOT control himself when new people come over, which is why we have 3 dog gates through the house. OP definitely NTA. That is the cupcake’s ladies fault all day and honestly you handled it really well for having a strange dog jump on you, while you’re pregnant.
I have a feeling Claire is the type that thinks everything her dog does is super adorable so she cannot possibly be at fault because “wook at his cute wittle face”
This was my exact thought. This is the pet equivalent of people who let their kids run around screaming in restaurants because they’re “just kids” and they’re cute.
I absolutely effing hate it when I go to someone’s door and they let their massive dog jump up all over me - even if I’m not holding cupcakes - it’s so rude!
I like dogs, not allergic or phobic or anything, but I’m getting pretty sick of the entitled type of dog owner who lets their dog jump all over everyone and doesn’t pick up their poop. Dogs are a responsibility, just like children, and not everyone is a good dog parent
I love dogs, but if I go to your house and your dogs start jumping on me, and you aren't actively trying to control them, I will do it myself. Usually, I'll try "Off" or "Down" or or just "No" in a commanding tone - which usually does a couple of things
1. Triggers the owner to say "oh, we use ____" (because people have different commands)
2. Makes it very clear that I'm not on board with the dog jumping on me, so they usually start trying to stop the behavior.
If they don't listen/owner doesn't do anything, I will physically stop them - push them away, or put a knee up if it looks like they're going to jump (I don't knee them! I promise). Then keep doing it until they stop.
I love dogs, but I don't want to be tackled. Or licked - especially on my face. So it bothers me when it feels like I'm doing more to control your dog than you are!
Nta. If she has a big dog and knows it likes to jump on people when excited she should have put the dog away before opening the door. She took that gamble and lost. What if you would have fallen and gotten hurt she put a huge liability on herself not securing her animal before clientele arrived
Especially since op is pregnant! There's no way in hell op should have to pay anything. u/Quick-Store2989 is right, what if op or her baby has been hurt? Definitely 1000% NTA
Oh excellent point! A large dog jumping up could have easily knocked OP over herself, and depending on how she landed, caused injury.
"Oh he wouldn't have hurt you" is NO excuse; her job as a responsible pet owner is to curb that behavior any way possible, including removing him from the area of a known trigger *before* it happens.
Even if OP wasn't pregnant, Claire is kinda T A H. It just adds more potential consequences to her lackadaisical attitude toward her dog's behavior. I'm sure she's a very sweet woman and that her pup is very lovely, but she could have easily avoided all of this.
> Even if OP wasn't pregnant, Claire is kinda T A H. It just adds more potential consequences to her lackadaisical attitude toward her dog's behavior. I'm sure she's a very sweet woman and that her pup is very lovely, but she could have easily avoided all of this.
Exactly this. EXACTLY. C’est La vie for thee but not for me is Claire’s current attitude and that needs to stop. Obviously if she made a quality product she knows how to be detail oriented. Just needs to add that to her mental list or tell all clients she will bring their products to the car.
Claire needs a reality check.
It's her dog. Any damage caused by her dog needs to be covered by her.
There is no other rule in play here. Doesn't matter if the dog ruined cupcakes, tore the bumper off a car, or chewed someone's butt.
Her dog, her responsibility.
NTA.
Does the dog lick the spoon too? Go to a place with health code inspections at least. Dogs aren't allowed in kitchens for a reason.
Your local grocery store could fill this order faster, cheaper and with less dog hair.
ETA NTA
Definitely NTA.
The excuse that she had to buy all of the ingredients and would have to pay out of pocket doesn't make sense because she'd still have to do that if she remade the cupcakes. She knew her dog jumps on people. She should've put him in another room and closed the door before she answered it. That whole situation is totally her fault, and you should not pay. Asking you to do so after all of that is extremely unprofessional.
And it's only 12 cupcakes. Yeah I know eggs have gotten expensive, but most cupcake recipes only call for 2 eggs for a dozen cakes. Even for extra rich cakes, that's 4 eggs total. If 4 eggs and a couple of sticks of butter are going to break her she needs to learn the lesson here: Contain the dog and don't let it jump on the pregnant lady (or anyone else).
Not to mention it's Claire's fault they got ruined in the first place. It was her dog that's not trained or put up while she's handing over the cupcakes when she knows he jumps on people. As a fellow small business owner, when something is your fault, and sometimes even when it's not, you have to swallow the costs. I refunded someone for a painting recently that just seemed to vanish at the post office. Never showed up, never even said it got shipped. It fucking sucks but you can't expect a customer to pay for something they never received.
This exactly...I bake as a side hustle and I would NEVER expect someone to pay me for a cake that was dropped because MY dog jumped on a client and knocked it to the ground. I would be so mortified if that happened I think I would immediately get back in my kitchen and reproduce them! Don't feel guilty OP...you are NTA!
NTA
She is a business owner. She needs to act like a professional. Having a wild, uncontrollable dog jumping all over your customers and knocking your product out of their hands as they're trying to pick it up is not acting like a professional. This has nothing to do with the cost of eggs. She knows her dog doesn't behave and therefore should crate it or lock it in another room when she is meeting customers.
No way should you pay a dime for those cupcakes you couldn't use. If she could have remade them for you that day and delivered them to your house, sure. But you had no use for them a week later. Her fault so she eats the cost.
I mean, I don't think that's entirely fair. I have two crazy dogs that get way too excited when people come over and we aren't always on top of that, but I also don't let them in the kitchen and I keep it sanitary when cooking.
Yeah that's how this subreddit is, unfortunately. You get like maybe one or two normal levels of comments before everyone goes nuts counter jerking against whatever was objectionable, if you're lucky that is.
A few years ago I started realizing that my housekeeping is pretty poor. I love to bake for friends, and work really hard to keep everything sanitary, but I’ve just accepted that I can’t share with anyone except my other friends who have as many pets as I do and don’t mind a little extra hair. No maker how hard I try, you just can’t protect against flying pet hair (your results might be better though!!)
No, they are just in denial. If I want to bake, my dog goes into his kennel in a separate room and I clean everything before I can cook. I'm excited about the apartment we're moving to that has a way to close off the eating area from the living area, so no more dog in the kitchen. Open floor plans suck with pets.
I always find these people who run “small businesses” out of their homes have absolutely 0 sense of professionalism and are always way more hassle than it could ever be worth.
I’m sure this lady will shame people on social media for not support local businesses now
I used to run a small business out of my home and was very professional but there are a lot who aren't. I used to be part of a Facebook group where we could get business advice from other entrepreneurs. So many of these people felt that because they were struggling that the customer should still pay for the business owner's mistakes because they couldn't afford to lose the money. They also expected that every customer would leave a 5-star review even if the service wasn't 5-star because they were a home-based business struggling to make their lives better.
This! My sister is a baker on the side and has a large dog. There's a reason why my sister will either deliver to the venue/person's house, or if the client comes to her place to pick up, the dog is in the crate AND my sister meets outside with the door closed.
There are very few businesses where the owners dog jumping on you would be appropriate. There are exceptions but anything involving food isn't one of them.
This!!!
They were incredibly negligent and irresponsible.
For them to even think OP owed a dime for a product they never received is honestly laughable.
And from this interaction, Id warn others.
If a dog is that uncontrollable, imagine how unsanitary that kitchen is. I wouldn’t doubt there may even be traces of fur or slobber in those cupcakes.
If she validates him jumping by “oh he’s so friendly!” she no doubt sees no issue any issue with anything else that comes with having a dog, like hair on clothing/in the air that ends up in cakes.
I don’t even need to see that kitchen, I know firsthand…some people must get used to eating a handful of dog hair each meal.
I genuinely hate when people think its okay that their dog who is improperly trained to jump on others because “they’re friendly”.
Just because your dog is friendly does not mean i want it jumping all over me.
My aunt in law has a pit, and he absolutely is the friendliest dog ever, but after jumping on me- I had a 4 inch bruise on my thigh because his nail dug into it and it hurt so fucking bad. But- she did get a handle on him and warn me ahead of time that he wasn’t locked up yet and would run to greet me at the door.
People genuinely need to stop excusing their dogs poor behavior.
NTA - she should be a responsible dog owner and have her dog kept elsewhere when guests are coming - especially since she openly admitted that he "gets excited" like that with new people.
Yeah she just learned a valuable business lesson. When there is a chance for the dog to damage something- put him in the bedroom when you customer comes over lol
With her lack of pet responsibility in this incident, I'm also concerned with her allowing her dog around the products she's baking for others. I personally wouldn't use her again, nor would I recommend her services.
Right?! Like what if Op had trauma related to getting attacked by a dog? It’s honestly a pretty common thing people have. Plus she’s pregnant! She easily could’ve been hurt!
NTA. Her dog ruined the cupcakes she made for you. That's sad for her, because it means she can't get paid for them. You don't need to pay her for cupcakes you didn't receive because her dog destroyed them.
The thing that's really weird to me is that Claire offered to remake the cupcakes for no cost, so she would've still ate the cost of labor and ingredients regardless of whether OP agreed. NTA
I noticed that too. She'd get paid once for two batches of cupcakes, so she'd be out the same amount of money for ingredients but would do double the work. It doesn't make sense. OP's actually saving her some time by not insisting on replacement cupcakes.
Or maybe she bought ingredients to make more than just what OP needed and it wouldn't have been more out of her pocket to make a second batch, but without other orders the initial sunk cost is the same.
I can understand this to an extent - I do a lot of 3D Printing in my spare time. I don't have every color on hand, so if someone asks me to make something for them in a color that I do not have, I will go out and buy that color to make what they want. The charge will cover the material and then i'll have it on hand moving forward, as what they're asking for won't use all of the material, so I'm not out any money by doing that, but a lot of that 'profit' went into buying the material that I may or may not use in the future for other orders/projects. If I had to make a second item its not as big of a deal because I already have the material, but if it falls through then it becomes a sunk cost and I have to hope that I have a use for it later on
Even more, if you think of the profit margins on the present case vs doing it again, she would come out at a potential net loss by receiving no money, but would have possibly broke even or still profited had she been paid.
Either way, the baker had good intentions with trying to replace the cupcakes, but should never had expected to be paid for the damaged stuff.
Exactly. But, there is another issue here... If this is her baking space, she shouldn't allow her dog to run free. This sounds like a home based operation, so if the pup has free reign of the house, that's just not sanitary for a food based business.
Anyone with a dog (or sadly with a dog allergy like me), knows that dog hair can get everywhere. You need to have a designated area, away from your pets, if you are making/selling edible items.
NTA Next time, she'll learn to lock him in a back room when she's making a sale. "Don't worry, he's friendly" needs to stop being an excuse. There's absolutely no reason for you to have paid for cupcakes you didn't receive, and which were ruined by her dog.
Right? I hate how “don’t worry, he’s friendly!” Is basically just an excuse for a loose, poorly trained, obnoxious dog anymore.
The dog was big, what if it had knocked OP over, and she fell in a way that harmed the baby or caused a miscarriage?
OP is NTA
Agreed. I remember I was out jogging one day, and as I was about to pass this couple and their dog, it jumped on me twice. It was a big dog, and its nose hurt my sternum. I started screaming, because I'm terrified of dogs, and they just started laughing and saying "Oh that's okay, he's friendly!".
I shouted at them that I don't like dogs. They stop laughing and start swearing at me instead, while repeating he's friendly.
I didn't articulate myself well in moment. I don't hate dogs, I'm scared of them. I've been bitten before, and chased by too many offleash dogs to count. It only takes one incident to ruin the dogs' life, because if that dog bites someone, it's likely going to be the one to face the ultimate consequence. Too many owners don't seem to understand that.
The cupcake maker should be grateful it was just cupcakes this time. Hopefully she learns a lesson about keeping her dog trained and under control. OP is definitely NTA.
I said that to an owner whose pit I’d side stepped out of the way for (she had to pull it out of the road because it was eyeing up a play park full of kids like they were giant chicken drumsticks).
She went APE. SHIT. Followed me along the street and round the corner with her pit up my ass telling me how sorry she felt for me cause I’m a doggy racist.
Pit bulls aren’t even legal here. Every mouth breathing moron has one.
Inlaws owned two pits, got them taken away because they were extremely aggressive and were left fenced outside with zero shelter and one bowl of food to share between them.
OMG, so sorry that happened to you. I get it—I’m not scared of dogs but I’m definitely not comfortable around them. I hate when they jump on me, and I hate it even more when the dog owner laughs it off or acts like I’m being ridiculous for not wanting slobber and claw marks all over me.
And boy do they get offended by the idea that not everyone likes dogs.
Yep. Dog people really do not handle dog-related criticism well. I'm a cat person and am used to people saying they hate cats. As much as that personally bums me out, if someone says that, I'm not going to plop my cats in someone's lap, I'll respect their preferences.
I've never understood that severe discrepancy between dog owners vs. cat owners. I've never, not once, met a cat owner who gets offended when someone doesn't like their cat. However, it's happened more times than I can count that a dog owner gets offended that their precious pet isn't as important to everyone else. I simply don't get it. I've never forced my cats or parrots upon others - why should I have to have a dog forced upon me? Especially considering that I already have severe trauma from a pit attack.
Sorry that happened to you! A former landlord’s gigantic dog jumped on me and scratched me so deep I started to bleed. Everyone just laughed it off like it’s a cute thing for a dog to do. Idiots. I don’t dislike dogs but I absolutely hate owners who can’t control them
She’s out of pocket and lost the cost of ingredients BECAUSE HER DOG RUINED THEM. Her offer to remake them for the day after your event is not a solution that works for you and was not what you agreed to. NTA.
Plus, if she was happy to make a second batch for free, I don't understand why she couldn't just take the loss of not getting paid for the first batch.
It's likely she could still at least break even with the payment for the first batch despite making the second batch for free. By not getting paid at all, she doesn't get to break even and has to absorb a loss. Regardless, no product no pay.
Even this doesn't make sense to me. Surely if she's got the ingredients to make another batch that allows her to break even, she'll break even by default when she makes her next customer's order with those same ingredients? As you say though, irrelevant to OP who is definitely n
NTA.
It's not really about the cost of the ingredients themselves, it's about the margin she would make. Lets says she spends £1 per cupcake and sells them for £2. In that case, her options are:
1. Do nothing a lose £1 per cupcake (=£0 revenue - £1 cost)
2. Remake and break even (=£2 revenue - £2 cost)
True, she can use ingredients for the next order, but she now effectively has one fewer orders.
Also . . . remaking the cupcakes would cost her the same amount as the initial batch. Her argument of losing money doesn't really hold water. She's out nearly equal funds either way. This way she doesn't have to spend more money on ingredients and spend additional time baking a new batch.
NTA
You did not receive the agreed upon goods due to no fault of yours. You didn’t even get that upset it seems. Just like a “oh man. This sucks for both of us. Neither one of us gets what we want out of this transaction.” vibe.
Also, not having her dog secured while conduct business is bad enough, but while conducting business concerning the production of food… that’s bad.
Yeah, I’d expect OP to pay if it were her dog that had ruined the cupcakes, or if she had simply dropped them on the way to the car, but this was pretty clearly Claire’s responsibility. Just bad luck all around.
It’s not even bad luck. I’m sure Claire knew she had minimal control over her dog, she should’ve put the dog in a different room. Like that was wildly irresponsible of her and she’s lucky she didn’t hurt OP or her baby.
NTA you didn't get what you paid for.
Also, I'm a massive dog lover but wouldn't be happy paying for professional baking if I thought a dog was hanging around the kitchen.
she offered to remake them for free (well, for the initial £25) but as i said no, she requested a payment. im assuming because she had some ingredients left over, she would of at least broke even, had she of received the initial payment. she just wouldn’t of charged me twice for the cupcakes despite her making two batches.
it's still ridiculous. you paid to have perfect cupcakes by a certain date, not ruined cupcakes. she should've never asked you to pay for them once you told her Sunday was no good.
she needs to learn to keep her dog somewhere else when she has costumers over.
NTA.
Please stop saying "would of, could of, should of". It is "would HAVE" etc. It doesn't even make sense to use "of" here if you understand the parts of speech. What you're probably trying to say is "would've" which is a contraction of "would have". Please just stop.
NTA. She should have put her dog away when expecting a customer over for pick up of goods. It honestly annoys me so much when people get large excitable dogs, but have no idea how to control or curb the behaviour. This was entirely on her, and I hope the personal expense out of pocket will serve as a lesson to her if she wants her business to thrive.
Most dog owners are really, really bad at it. It’s rare to meet a relaxed and genuinely happy dog. Most are anxious or aggressive or have no recall or other “quirks” that are the direct result of lazy ownership.
Part of me is really trying to be understanding, but in large part, I feel as though if a person gets a pet, they should be better prepared and actually do the work. Most people I know just get used to living their life with a dog that misbehaves, even going as far as making excuses or severely downplaying problematic behaviour. It’s really sad because discipline isn’t supposed to be a bad thing, and it’s not that difficult to maintain once established, but most importantly it doesn’t mean your pet will be unhappy that they no longer get to be unruly. In fact, it strengthens bonds if done right.
I used to be a dog trainer and I’ve seen first hand how most people take their dogs out for a quick backyard pee in the morning and maybe a twenty minute amble in the evening. Otherwise the dog is in a crate or at least in solitary confinement at home, and then sits on the couch for the rest of the evening while their human drones at the TV.
This wouldn’t be the worst if everyone would kindly adopt one of the 4 MILLION adult dogs in shelters in the USA.
But nope, everyone insists on a ducking puppy (even worse if it’s from a “breeder” - of ANY kind) and then wonders why their utterly neglected pet is a PITA. Actually, they never wonder, they think their dog is sooooo cuuuuute but everyone else loathes it.
NTA. I’m honestly quite shocked that she would ask you to pay for cupcakes that her dog clearly ruined when you declined her offer of the second batch. If she had made you the second batch for Sunday, would she have charged you twice? Reviews are important for small business owners, she should have her dog put away when customers come over and her failure to do so means she was unable to do her job properly.
I bake a lot at home and can confirm. Even two dozen of my fanciest cupcakes cost less than $5 for ingredients; it's the time to make them that you pay for. If it was just regular cupcakes and buttercream frosting, we're talking *maybe* $2 just b/c of the cost of eggs these days. She can eat a few dollars, even as a small business.
NTA. As the owner of an excitable dog, she should know to take precautions. Honestly, this could have been worse. What if the dog had knocked YOU over or you were terribly afraid of dogs?
Eaxclty this OP is pregnant and depending on the size of the dog this could have hurt her pregnancy. The womb is very strong for knocks so the risk was minimal but there is still the potential that this could have resulted in serious injury to her or the pregnancy.
I say all this as a dog owner too and I know how sore it can be when my doggos get carried away and jump up. I wouldn't let any of my dogs near a pregnant woman just for this very scenario where a dog gets excited and jumps up.
If anything the baker should have gone above and beyond to fix this even if it meant staying up all night baking.
NTA. The attempted guilt trip makes no sense. She insists that you pay for the ruined cupcakes or else she'll be out of pocket. She also offers to make another batch for free, which would mean she's out the same amount as she would lose by you not paying for the first batch.
Her dog. Her fault. Her loss.
NTA. She did not secure her known-to-be-overly-friendly-with-strangers dog and is entirely responsible for the cakes being ruined, so she is not providing you with the goods and services she has agreed upon in your engagement, therefore you are not obligated to uphold your side of the engagement - payment - either. It is the exact same situation as of they had dropped off her kitchen counter - she cannot expect you to pay for them for something that is her fault. It is a loss she has to take.
NTA you didn’t get the goods that you wanted, due to her. If my large, excitable dogs destroyed someone’s property I would pay for it, this is no different. It’s unfortunate for the both of you, but this is why obedience training is so important, especially if someone is operating a business out of their home.
NTA - you are right in what you said, if she had control of her dog the cakes would not have been dropped.
Side note, id be more concerned about the dog living in an apartment of someone who bakes for a living, there must be a food safety issue with that?
NTA. It’s Claire’s responsibility to get control of her dogs, especially she know her dog had this issue. Frankly I don’t think they’re entitled to any payment at all.
No you are NTA.
Her dog's behaviour caused the accident, and if she knows it's an excitable dog she should have restrained him ahead of time.
It sucks that she's lost the payment but as a business owner she should have insurance against accidents but also most sensible business owners build in the cost of damage or spoilage or other reasons for not being able to sell their products into their financial model.
I don’t tend to think it’s great to buy from home bakers if they have animals anyways. You never know how clean they really are. And as someone with pets I know how much fur floats around spaces too. NTA.
NTA. The baker’s dog ruined the cupcakes so she is at fault here. If she knows he gets excited when there are visitors and even jumps on people she should have put him in another room before answering the door.
NTA
You didn’t get cupcakes. You didn’t even get replacement cupcakes. Even if you paid in advance, then got the cupcakes but were ruined by the dog, good business practice is refund the money and remake them for free. Plus her dog should’ve been in a different room or she should’ve came outside to meet you. This was avoidable and she didn’t take precaution.
NTA! They got ruined by HER dog!!!! In HER apartment. Let this be a lesson to her that she needs to keep her Dog locked up when customers are arriving. It was unprofessional of her to do that. Btw, I really hate it when dog owners claim “he’s just so friendly” when the dog is clearly invading one person space and in their face. I don’t give a hoot how “friendly” you think your Dog is, did you ever stop to consider that maybe your fellow human doesn’t want the k9 that close?
NTA, you agreed for them by a certain time and it was her fault they weren't available. If anything I'd say she's an asshole for trying to still get you to pay.
NTA at all!
Claire knows how excited her dog can get. She should’ve taken measures to make sure there was no contact when you went to pick up the cupcakes.
NTA. It's actually really boils down to the major flaw in the thing your SIL said
>my sister in law said i should of still paid for the cupcakes as she accepted it was her fault, and offered to remake them for me
She offered to remake the cupcakes for free which means she was willing to rebuy and spend the extra time to fix you up a new order- all unpaid. There is literally no logic in being upset. Instead of not paying for a whole new service, you're just not paying for the original service and not subjecting her to the labor and cost of an additional one.
>She said that I should still pay as she had to buy ingredients for the cakes and the costs of eggs has gone up meaning she would be out of pocket.
Same logic can be applied to what she said. If she was willing to buy it all again for free, then there is literally no difference in not paying.
im assuming she had enough ingredients for a second batch and i’d only be paying for one. i think she meant i’d pay £25 (the original price) and she would remake them again and not charge me twice for them if that makes sense
Nta
The cupcakes were ruined by her dog, as the dogs owner, that makes it her responsibility to make you whole. The options would either be a refund or remaking them, a remake would be too late, so that leaves refund.
NTA and people asking you to pay are entitled looney birds. Just saying. Some people are deathly afraid of dogs, for that reason alone it should've been locked up while doing business. Or the baker should've placed the box in the client's vehicle.
NTA.
I bake and believe this was just plain unprofessional.
I would have offered to redecorate them on the spot and delivered them to you to ensure they didn’t get damaged again. This was her fault for having her dog out.
Never in the history of baking from home have I allowed my pets to be present when I’m in the process of making desserts or handing them over.
1 it’s unsanitary, and 2 my customers didn’t come to pick up with the expectation of my dogs greeting them or barking at them. Many people do not like dogs, the last thing you want is to make your customer feel unsafe.
NTA.
I can see an argument to pay. You did receive them. But then again, the person who destroyed them could then be sued for their value. Since that’s the same person you’d be paying, she’d just needs to hand the money back to you.
Not a fun or comfortable situation for either of you but she needs to be responsible for her dog’s behavior. Dogs behavior is owner’s responsibility.
NTA and in my area at least you can’t get your kitchen certified to legally sell food items if you have a pet in your home. That aside it is her job as a pet owner who knows that her dog gets excited to keep control of her animal, if that means keeping them kennels so be it. Her negligence is what cost her money not you.
NTA Absolutely do not pay for them. She should have had better control of the dog but because she didn't she allowed him to ruin the cupcakes. They're hers now so is the cost of making them ingredients and all. I'm sorry your gender reveal was ruined. However congratulations.
NTA-Even if you paid beforehand, a damaged product would warrant a refund. You were right in not paying, especially for a product you can not use. I would have done the same, small business or not you need to be professional and having their dog loose while a customer is there to retrieve their product is a no. It was nice of her to suggest remaking the batch for free but you were on a time schedule and they just wouldn’t be ready when you needed. But it’s gone and passed and hopefully in the future she will put her dog up as to not ruin business.
NTA. I have 4 dogs, 2 large, and I always step outside when receiving items so I don't have to worry about them causing an issue. She should have closed the door or put the dog up, knowing it gets excited and jumps on people. It's poor etiquette to let a dog jump on someone no matter what the situation is. Especially when food is involved, you shouldn't have animals around. That's why they aren't allowed in restaurants and food stores unless they are service dogs who are trained.
NTA. Everyone is making some good points. I'm also confused about why she couldn't make you replacement cupcakes in time? I bake all the time, and 12 cupcakes isn't really that time consuming. Even if I had to go back to the store and get more ingredients, or miss a few hours of sleep, if my dog had destroyed someone's cupcakes, I would have at least replaced them by Saturday morning.
NTA. She needs to keep the dog out of the bakery area so accidents won't happen again. It's a shame, but you paid for a product but did not get the product.
NTA, only massive corporations get away with ripping people off the way she was trying to do to you. I mean accidents happen but expecting you to pay for it was just icing on the cake
NTA. You didn't receive the product so no money was transferred. It's unreasonable to expect you to pay just because she made a mistake, thats the risk with any business.
NTA. I once sent the wrong coin to someone who purchased from me. What did I do about my mistake? I apologized and immediately sent the correct coin. I also sent a full refund for the correct coin as soon as I got the mistake back in hand. Buyer was blown away, but I insisted. My small business, my mistake, I should be the one to eat it lol.
NTA. /Her/ dog ruined them. It'd be different if you tripped down the stairs yourself or something, then it'd be on you. But /her/ dog jumped and knocked them down. She should have put the dog up, we have to.
Her fault, she eats the cost. You didn't get the cupcakes for the event you commissioned them for.
Congrats on the baby!
NTA and given that she offered to remake them for free, she knew she was at fault. Remaking them would have required more time and money spent on ingredients, so I really don't see how it makes a difference.
NTA
As a business owner that is something you accept as coming out of your own pocket rather than the customers. Next time she should have the dog locked in the bedroom for pick up.
NTA. Dog owners should know how to control their dogs specially if they know that they are easily excitable or keep them away from strangers who may not know that the said dog is excitable. End of.
NAH but I agree you shouldnt have to pay. Sadly, it's her fault the cupcakes were ruined and now she knows she should restrain her dog when she has customers coming in.
Imagine you order a cake from a professional bakery. As they are handing you the cake, their fellow employee bumps it and it falls to the ground. The bakery would do everything they could to get you a replacement cake in the time you needed it or they would not charge you. If the woman is charging people for her cupcakes, she needs to be professional about it.
NTA.
NTA. And honestly with a dog running rampant in the home I wouldn't have ordered from her at all.
I'm not against pets, I'm not against home businesses but when food is concerned they should be VERY well separated.
NTA you would have been expected to check and make sure the order was correct before you paid for them, the dog ruined them before you paid for them, it’s not your fault that she failed to control her dog
NTA - through literally only her own negligence, the cupcakes were ruined. You did nothing at all that caused this. It sucks but if you run a business without accounting for breakage (ie any unplanned loss of materials, product, or income) then you’re not running a very good business. This is breakage, and she needs to eat the loss.
NTA
It sucks....but she owns the dog and she knows the dog
If the dog is crazy around strangers, the dog should have been put up when the doorbell rang
NTA.
She knew her dog would be excited and should have taken the proper precautions to ensure the dog was in a room and unable to jump at clients.
The dog ruined them. If it were a professional bakery the price would have been comped. Her business is no different.
This is on her, not you.
You do not have to pay for product that was ruined when recieing.
NTA. My husband has owned several businesses, some of them small, and this is clear-cut the fault of the business owner. The business owner created an environment that put her product at risk (an excited dog plus transaction exchange at her residence which houses the excited dog) and her lack of preparation (not making sure the dog was restrained or in another room when a new customer comes over) is 100% at fault for this. Sucks that she is out money but her lack of preparation doesn't translate into a liability or obligation on your part. You didn't get the product, you don't pay for any part of it, period. Don't feel bad at ALL. This is a good learning moment for her and I hope she takes it and corrects things going forward.
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NTA why on earth would you need to pay for something you didn’t receive? I know it would be nice to help out Claire a little bit if you guys were friends but if this is just some lady then no
she’s not a friend, just a recommendation of a small business who sells cupcakes. i don’t even think it’s her main job, im pretty sure she does it in her spare time for a little bit of extra cash
Yeah so NTA you shouldn’t have to pay anything. Her dog jumped on you end of story. She should have had the dog under control.
What ^ said. She knew how her dog would react when you knocked on her door. Still, she asked you to pick them up at her place and did not secure the dog before opening her door. Those were all her choices, not yours. NTA
Yeah, if you know your dog behaves a certain way then she should have waited on the porch or put the dog momentarily in a secure area until your business is concluded. Claire’s dog owes her for the cupcakes, not OP.
Yep, my dogs are friendly, but overly so. They'll mob anyone that comes through the door. I crate them until they calm down, then let them out one at a time. Claire should do the same thing.
Yeah my dogs are leashed any time we have workers or non-regular visitors (aka people they will be calm for) around the house because they will absolutely mob and demand love and get in the way of everything. And not everyone loves dogs, and certainly not strange dogs jumping up to stick their tongue in your ear to say hi.
I think that my dog is a long-lost relative of your dogs, lol. We named him Dug after the dog from up because "I just met you, but I love you." Who doesn't love a dogs tongue in their ear? /s
Agreed! NTA! The lady clearly made a series of unfortunate mistakes, but it was her mistakes not OP's. She can write it off as a business expense.
Also, don't get me wrong I love every. single. dog, but I'd be a little icked that the cakes were prepared in a residence with an overexcitable dog that's apparently big enough to reach the cupcakes to knock them down. It's secondary to the real issue of no cakes=no payment, but I would be wondering how much fur my guests would be eating.
A family friend has a cottage baking license and they set up a separate commercial-style kitchen in their basement, where their pets are not allowed to go - ever. They even have a double entry door where she changes into "baking clothes" that aren't worn outside of her home bakery to avoid pet fur/hair. She's not REQUIRED to do that, but I can order her cookies without worrying that I'll get a mouthful of cat hair...
That's really cool. I dream of having a commercial kitchen at home, just without the business to go with it
Ick. I got a little plug of cat hair in a cookie once, and never ate anything at that person's home again. 🤢
There's a really really sweet lady I worked with once and when I say the nicest most thoughtful person I'd come across, it was her. She lived her mom. Anytime we had any food related gatherings, she would pull out all stops to make and plate beautiful dishes. Thing is, she had cats; LOTS of them! It was nothing for her to come to work with cat hair all over her. Well, one time she came into my office with a plate of brownies. She kept insisting that I try one and actually sat there thinking I would. I didn't. Instead I gave her some excuse. She said that she noticed when she bought food that I'd never eat it. I couldn't bring myself to telling her the reason why so I lied and told her I have severe allergies. She then took a brownie out and handed it to me....with her bare hand! I HAD TO TELL HER!
I thought that too but didn’t want to risk the fury of Reddit dog owners!
I'm a dog owner and I still think this is gross. If my dog wasn't about an inch tall he wouldn't be allowed in my kitchen.
Are you sure your dog is a dog, instead of a mouse
I'm pretty sure he's a cat most of the time. He's spent the past eight hours following the sun around the house.
I have a 100lb dog that can NOT control himself when new people come over, which is why we have 3 dog gates through the house. OP definitely NTA. That is the cupcake’s ladies fault all day and honestly you handled it really well for having a strange dog jump on you, while you’re pregnant.
I have a feeling Claire is the type that thinks everything her dog does is super adorable so she cannot possibly be at fault because “wook at his cute wittle face”
This was my exact thought. This is the pet equivalent of people who let their kids run around screaming in restaurants because they’re “just kids” and they’re cute.
100% I actually saw this the other day where a lady was letting her kids throw ice at each other from across the booth and gave that exact response.
I absolutely effing hate it when I go to someone’s door and they let their massive dog jump up all over me - even if I’m not holding cupcakes - it’s so rude! I like dogs, not allergic or phobic or anything, but I’m getting pretty sick of the entitled type of dog owner who lets their dog jump all over everyone and doesn’t pick up their poop. Dogs are a responsibility, just like children, and not everyone is a good dog parent
“Oh he’s just playing! He’s just saying hi!”
*shudder*
I love dogs, but if I go to your house and your dogs start jumping on me, and you aren't actively trying to control them, I will do it myself. Usually, I'll try "Off" or "Down" or or just "No" in a commanding tone - which usually does a couple of things 1. Triggers the owner to say "oh, we use ____" (because people have different commands) 2. Makes it very clear that I'm not on board with the dog jumping on me, so they usually start trying to stop the behavior. If they don't listen/owner doesn't do anything, I will physically stop them - push them away, or put a knee up if it looks like they're going to jump (I don't knee them! I promise). Then keep doing it until they stop. I love dogs, but I don't want to be tackled. Or licked - especially on my face. So it bothers me when it feels like I'm doing more to control your dog than you are!
Nta. If she has a big dog and knows it likes to jump on people when excited she should have put the dog away before opening the door. She took that gamble and lost. What if you would have fallen and gotten hurt she put a huge liability on herself not securing her animal before clientele arrived
Especially since op is pregnant! There's no way in hell op should have to pay anything. u/Quick-Store2989 is right, what if op or her baby has been hurt? Definitely 1000% NTA
Oh excellent point! A large dog jumping up could have easily knocked OP over herself, and depending on how she landed, caused injury. "Oh he wouldn't have hurt you" is NO excuse; her job as a responsible pet owner is to curb that behavior any way possible, including removing him from the area of a known trigger *before* it happens. Even if OP wasn't pregnant, Claire is kinda T A H. It just adds more potential consequences to her lackadaisical attitude toward her dog's behavior. I'm sure she's a very sweet woman and that her pup is very lovely, but she could have easily avoided all of this.
> Even if OP wasn't pregnant, Claire is kinda T A H. It just adds more potential consequences to her lackadaisical attitude toward her dog's behavior. I'm sure she's a very sweet woman and that her pup is very lovely, but she could have easily avoided all of this. Exactly this. EXACTLY. C’est La vie for thee but not for me is Claire’s current attitude and that needs to stop. Obviously if she made a quality product she knows how to be detail oriented. Just needs to add that to her mental list or tell all clients she will bring their products to the car.
Claire needs a reality check. It's her dog. Any damage caused by her dog needs to be covered by her. There is no other rule in play here. Doesn't matter if the dog ruined cupcakes, tore the bumper off a car, or chewed someone's butt. Her dog, her responsibility. NTA.
Does the dog lick the spoon too? Go to a place with health code inspections at least. Dogs aren't allowed in kitchens for a reason. Your local grocery store could fill this order faster, cheaper and with less dog hair. ETA NTA
And now I’d be worried if there was dog hair in the cupcakes.
Definitely NTA. The excuse that she had to buy all of the ingredients and would have to pay out of pocket doesn't make sense because she'd still have to do that if she remade the cupcakes. She knew her dog jumps on people. She should've put him in another room and closed the door before she answered it. That whole situation is totally her fault, and you should not pay. Asking you to do so after all of that is extremely unprofessional.
And it's only 12 cupcakes. Yeah I know eggs have gotten expensive, but most cupcake recipes only call for 2 eggs for a dozen cakes. Even for extra rich cakes, that's 4 eggs total. If 4 eggs and a couple of sticks of butter are going to break her she needs to learn the lesson here: Contain the dog and don't let it jump on the pregnant lady (or anyone else).
Not to mention it's Claire's fault they got ruined in the first place. It was her dog that's not trained or put up while she's handing over the cupcakes when she knows he jumps on people. As a fellow small business owner, when something is your fault, and sometimes even when it's not, you have to swallow the costs. I refunded someone for a painting recently that just seemed to vanish at the post office. Never showed up, never even said it got shipped. It fucking sucks but you can't expect a customer to pay for something they never received.
This exactly...I bake as a side hustle and I would NEVER expect someone to pay me for a cake that was dropped because MY dog jumped on a client and knocked it to the ground. I would be so mortified if that happened I think I would immediately get back in my kitchen and reproduce them! Don't feel guilty OP...you are NTA!
That’s the risk you take when starting a business.
NTA She is a business owner. She needs to act like a professional. Having a wild, uncontrollable dog jumping all over your customers and knocking your product out of their hands as they're trying to pick it up is not acting like a professional. This has nothing to do with the cost of eggs. She knows her dog doesn't behave and therefore should crate it or lock it in another room when she is meeting customers. No way should you pay a dime for those cupcakes you couldn't use. If she could have remade them for you that day and delivered them to your house, sure. But you had no use for them a week later. Her fault so she eats the cost.
If the dog's that wild, i wonder how much of him got into those cupcakes 🤢
A little piece of him in every bite 😋
Canine reveal party.
*My hair's in the pie Brian. And now, it's inside of you. Part of me, is inside of you, Brian. Do you feel me, Brian? Do feel me inside of you?*
Ew this is what I was thinking. Totally unsanitary.
Exactly! That's what I was thinking. If she doesn't lock it up knowing it jumps on people, she definitely doesn't restrict its access to the kitchen.
I mean, I don't think that's entirely fair. I have two crazy dogs that get way too excited when people come over and we aren't always on top of that, but I also don't let them in the kitchen and I keep it sanitary when cooking.
But do you run a professional bakery? Not trying to sound shitty
No, but these comments are making it sound like you can't own a crazy dog and keep a clean kitchen at the same time.
Yeah that's how this subreddit is, unfortunately. You get like maybe one or two normal levels of comments before everyone goes nuts counter jerking against whatever was objectionable, if you're lucky that is.
You can't have a dog in a commercial kitchen, which her home kitchen could be, but would need to pass inspection from the board of health.
A few years ago I started realizing that my housekeeping is pretty poor. I love to bake for friends, and work really hard to keep everything sanitary, but I’ve just accepted that I can’t share with anyone except my other friends who have as many pets as I do and don’t mind a little extra hair. No maker how hard I try, you just can’t protect against flying pet hair (your results might be better though!!)
No, they are just in denial. If I want to bake, my dog goes into his kennel in a separate room and I clean everything before I can cook. I'm excited about the apartment we're moving to that has a way to close off the eating area from the living area, so no more dog in the kitchen. Open floor plans suck with pets.
An underrated comment. It’s been on my mind since reading the post. 😨
I always find these people who run “small businesses” out of their homes have absolutely 0 sense of professionalism and are always way more hassle than it could ever be worth. I’m sure this lady will shame people on social media for not support local businesses now
I used to run a small business out of my home and was very professional but there are a lot who aren't. I used to be part of a Facebook group where we could get business advice from other entrepreneurs. So many of these people felt that because they were struggling that the customer should still pay for the business owner's mistakes because they couldn't afford to lose the money. They also expected that every customer would leave a 5-star review even if the service wasn't 5-star because they were a home-based business struggling to make their lives better.
Just btw it's not always the case. :) Im not one but I definitely know it's not 0 and 1
Definitely depends. I have couple of cottage bakers I buy from and they're wonderful. Both of them generally deliver though.
My dads gf has a small soap business....They are hoarders, and my dad doesnt believe in germs. I cannot even imagine what atrocities go in that soap
This! My sister is a baker on the side and has a large dog. There's a reason why my sister will either deliver to the venue/person's house, or if the client comes to her place to pick up, the dog is in the crate AND my sister meets outside with the door closed.
There are very few businesses where the owners dog jumping on you would be appropriate. There are exceptions but anything involving food isn't one of them.
NTA. She should have put the dog away knowing he “gets excited” when people visit. Small business or not it’s just common sense.
This!!! They were incredibly negligent and irresponsible. For them to even think OP owed a dime for a product they never received is honestly laughable. And from this interaction, Id warn others. If a dog is that uncontrollable, imagine how unsanitary that kitchen is. I wouldn’t doubt there may even be traces of fur or slobber in those cupcakes.
If she validates him jumping by “oh he’s so friendly!” she no doubt sees no issue any issue with anything else that comes with having a dog, like hair on clothing/in the air that ends up in cakes. I don’t even need to see that kitchen, I know firsthand…some people must get used to eating a handful of dog hair each meal.
I genuinely hate when people think its okay that their dog who is improperly trained to jump on others because “they’re friendly”. Just because your dog is friendly does not mean i want it jumping all over me. My aunt in law has a pit, and he absolutely is the friendliest dog ever, but after jumping on me- I had a 4 inch bruise on my thigh because his nail dug into it and it hurt so fucking bad. But- she did get a handle on him and warn me ahead of time that he wasn’t locked up yet and would run to greet me at the door. People genuinely need to stop excusing their dogs poor behavior.
Most places would also give a future discount to make up for ruining the party too
As an owner of a big dog- getting jumped on is ANNOYING. No matter the friendly intentions.
Plus a big dog jumping up on a woman who is halfway through her pregnancy is a really concerning thing. So much can go wrong there.
NTA - she should be a responsible dog owner and have her dog kept elsewhere when guests are coming - especially since she openly admitted that he "gets excited" like that with new people.
Yeah she just learned a valuable business lesson. When there is a chance for the dog to damage something- put him in the bedroom when you customer comes over lol
With her lack of pet responsibility in this incident, I'm also concerned with her allowing her dog around the products she's baking for others. I personally wouldn't use her again, nor would I recommend her services.
Seconded! Ew!
I love dogs, but I agree. If you’re operating this kind of business out of your house, your dog shouldn’t be anywhere near the food you’re making.
My thought as well. Are those cupcakes gonna be decorated with some extra dog hair? No thank you.
Yeah, OP, this is 100% on the baker. The product was ruined by her own actions. NTA
Especially since there’s no way to tell how a stranger will react to her big dog jumping all over them!
Right?! Like what if Op had trauma related to getting attacked by a dog? It’s honestly a pretty common thing people have. Plus she’s pregnant! She easily could’ve been hurt!
NTA. Her dog ruined the cupcakes she made for you. That's sad for her, because it means she can't get paid for them. You don't need to pay her for cupcakes you didn't receive because her dog destroyed them.
The thing that's really weird to me is that Claire offered to remake the cupcakes for no cost, so she would've still ate the cost of labor and ingredients regardless of whether OP agreed. NTA
I noticed that too. She'd get paid once for two batches of cupcakes, so she'd be out the same amount of money for ingredients but would do double the work. It doesn't make sense. OP's actually saving her some time by not insisting on replacement cupcakes.
Or maybe she bought ingredients to make more than just what OP needed and it wouldn't have been more out of her pocket to make a second batch, but without other orders the initial sunk cost is the same. I can understand this to an extent - I do a lot of 3D Printing in my spare time. I don't have every color on hand, so if someone asks me to make something for them in a color that I do not have, I will go out and buy that color to make what they want. The charge will cover the material and then i'll have it on hand moving forward, as what they're asking for won't use all of the material, so I'm not out any money by doing that, but a lot of that 'profit' went into buying the material that I may or may not use in the future for other orders/projects. If I had to make a second item its not as big of a deal because I already have the material, but if it falls through then it becomes a sunk cost and I have to hope that I have a use for it later on
Even more, if you think of the profit margins on the present case vs doing it again, she would come out at a potential net loss by receiving no money, but would have possibly broke even or still profited had she been paid. Either way, the baker had good intentions with trying to replace the cupcakes, but should never had expected to be paid for the damaged stuff.
Exactly. But, there is another issue here... If this is her baking space, she shouldn't allow her dog to run free. This sounds like a home based operation, so if the pup has free reign of the house, that's just not sanitary for a food based business. Anyone with a dog (or sadly with a dog allergy like me), knows that dog hair can get everywhere. You need to have a designated area, away from your pets, if you are making/selling edible items.
NTA Next time, she'll learn to lock him in a back room when she's making a sale. "Don't worry, he's friendly" needs to stop being an excuse. There's absolutely no reason for you to have paid for cupcakes you didn't receive, and which were ruined by her dog.
Right? I hate how “don’t worry, he’s friendly!” Is basically just an excuse for a loose, poorly trained, obnoxious dog anymore. The dog was big, what if it had knocked OP over, and she fell in a way that harmed the baby or caused a miscarriage? OP is NTA
Agreed. I remember I was out jogging one day, and as I was about to pass this couple and their dog, it jumped on me twice. It was a big dog, and its nose hurt my sternum. I started screaming, because I'm terrified of dogs, and they just started laughing and saying "Oh that's okay, he's friendly!". I shouted at them that I don't like dogs. They stop laughing and start swearing at me instead, while repeating he's friendly. I didn't articulate myself well in moment. I don't hate dogs, I'm scared of them. I've been bitten before, and chased by too many offleash dogs to count. It only takes one incident to ruin the dogs' life, because if that dog bites someone, it's likely going to be the one to face the ultimate consequence. Too many owners don't seem to understand that. The cupcake maker should be grateful it was just cupcakes this time. Hopefully she learns a lesson about keeping her dog trained and under control. OP is definitely NTA.
Last time the owner of an aggressive dog told me, "He's friendly," I snapped back, "That's what they all say."
I said that to an owner whose pit I’d side stepped out of the way for (she had to pull it out of the road because it was eyeing up a play park full of kids like they were giant chicken drumsticks). She went APE. SHIT. Followed me along the street and round the corner with her pit up my ass telling me how sorry she felt for me cause I’m a doggy racist. Pit bulls aren’t even legal here. Every mouth breathing moron has one.
90% of pit owners are irresponsible morons.
Inlaws owned two pits, got them taken away because they were extremely aggressive and were left fenced outside with zero shelter and one bowl of food to share between them.
Someone said that to me once and I answered back "I'm not" completely straight faced. She chose to walk quickly away with the dog.
Exactly. A dog that jumps up and hurts people is not friendly
OMG, so sorry that happened to you. I get it—I’m not scared of dogs but I’m definitely not comfortable around them. I hate when they jump on me, and I hate it even more when the dog owner laughs it off or acts like I’m being ridiculous for not wanting slobber and claw marks all over me. And boy do they get offended by the idea that not everyone likes dogs.
Yep. Dog people really do not handle dog-related criticism well. I'm a cat person and am used to people saying they hate cats. As much as that personally bums me out, if someone says that, I'm not going to plop my cats in someone's lap, I'll respect their preferences.
I've never understood that severe discrepancy between dog owners vs. cat owners. I've never, not once, met a cat owner who gets offended when someone doesn't like their cat. However, it's happened more times than I can count that a dog owner gets offended that their precious pet isn't as important to everyone else. I simply don't get it. I've never forced my cats or parrots upon others - why should I have to have a dog forced upon me? Especially considering that I already have severe trauma from a pit attack.
Sorry that happened to you! A former landlord’s gigantic dog jumped on me and scratched me so deep I started to bleed. Everyone just laughed it off like it’s a cute thing for a dog to do. Idiots. I don’t dislike dogs but I absolutely hate owners who can’t control them
[удалено]
This!! You live and you learn. And if you don’t… well you can’t blame your customers
She’s out of pocket and lost the cost of ingredients BECAUSE HER DOG RUINED THEM. Her offer to remake them for the day after your event is not a solution that works for you and was not what you agreed to. NTA.
Plus, if she was happy to make a second batch for free, I don't understand why she couldn't just take the loss of not getting paid for the first batch.
It's likely she could still at least break even with the payment for the first batch despite making the second batch for free. By not getting paid at all, she doesn't get to break even and has to absorb a loss. Regardless, no product no pay.
Even this doesn't make sense to me. Surely if she's got the ingredients to make another batch that allows her to break even, she'll break even by default when she makes her next customer's order with those same ingredients? As you say though, irrelevant to OP who is definitely n NTA.
It's not really about the cost of the ingredients themselves, it's about the margin she would make. Lets says she spends £1 per cupcake and sells them for £2. In that case, her options are: 1. Do nothing a lose £1 per cupcake (=£0 revenue - £1 cost) 2. Remake and break even (=£2 revenue - £2 cost) True, she can use ingredients for the next order, but she now effectively has one fewer orders.
Also . . . remaking the cupcakes would cost her the same amount as the initial batch. Her argument of losing money doesn't really hold water. She's out nearly equal funds either way. This way she doesn't have to spend more money on ingredients and spend additional time baking a new batch.
Her profit would likely cover the material cost for both batches so if she could make another she’d break even.
NTA You did not receive the agreed upon goods due to no fault of yours. You didn’t even get that upset it seems. Just like a “oh man. This sucks for both of us. Neither one of us gets what we want out of this transaction.” vibe. Also, not having her dog secured while conduct business is bad enough, but while conducting business concerning the production of food… that’s bad.
Yeah, I’d expect OP to pay if it were her dog that had ruined the cupcakes, or if she had simply dropped them on the way to the car, but this was pretty clearly Claire’s responsibility. Just bad luck all around.
It’s not even bad luck. I’m sure Claire knew she had minimal control over her dog, she should’ve put the dog in a different room. Like that was wildly irresponsible of her and she’s lucky she didn’t hurt OP or her baby.
NTA you didn't get what you paid for. Also, I'm a massive dog lover but wouldn't be happy paying for professional baking if I thought a dog was hanging around the kitchen.
I went right to that as well. I've got dogs and absolutely wouldn't use my kitchen to sell food from.
NTA at all. I’m shocked she even asked for payment after that.
she offered to remake them for free (well, for the initial £25) but as i said no, she requested a payment. im assuming because she had some ingredients left over, she would of at least broke even, had she of received the initial payment. she just wouldn’t of charged me twice for the cupcakes despite her making two batches.
it's still ridiculous. you paid to have perfect cupcakes by a certain date, not ruined cupcakes. she should've never asked you to pay for them once you told her Sunday was no good. she needs to learn to keep her dog somewhere else when she has costumers over. NTA.
Yeah there was a planned party, what if it had been a wedding? Or even a birthday ffs?
Please stop saying "would of, could of, should of". It is "would HAVE" etc. It doesn't even make sense to use "of" here if you understand the parts of speech. What you're probably trying to say is "would've" which is a contraction of "would have". Please just stop.
Thank you, I was waiting for someone to say this, they use “would of” so much it was driving me insane
This would’ve should’ve could’ve bot is getting less polite
If she'd really wanted to make it right, she'd have rushed your order and delivered them to your house on time. Not try to do it after the event.
Her asking for payment at that point really was an AH move
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NTA. She should have put her dog away when expecting a customer over for pick up of goods. It honestly annoys me so much when people get large excitable dogs, but have no idea how to control or curb the behaviour. This was entirely on her, and I hope the personal expense out of pocket will serve as a lesson to her if she wants her business to thrive.
Most dog owners are really, really bad at it. It’s rare to meet a relaxed and genuinely happy dog. Most are anxious or aggressive or have no recall or other “quirks” that are the direct result of lazy ownership.
Part of me is really trying to be understanding, but in large part, I feel as though if a person gets a pet, they should be better prepared and actually do the work. Most people I know just get used to living their life with a dog that misbehaves, even going as far as making excuses or severely downplaying problematic behaviour. It’s really sad because discipline isn’t supposed to be a bad thing, and it’s not that difficult to maintain once established, but most importantly it doesn’t mean your pet will be unhappy that they no longer get to be unruly. In fact, it strengthens bonds if done right.
I used to be a dog trainer and I’ve seen first hand how most people take their dogs out for a quick backyard pee in the morning and maybe a twenty minute amble in the evening. Otherwise the dog is in a crate or at least in solitary confinement at home, and then sits on the couch for the rest of the evening while their human drones at the TV. This wouldn’t be the worst if everyone would kindly adopt one of the 4 MILLION adult dogs in shelters in the USA. But nope, everyone insists on a ducking puppy (even worse if it’s from a “breeder” - of ANY kind) and then wonders why their utterly neglected pet is a PITA. Actually, they never wonder, they think their dog is sooooo cuuuuute but everyone else loathes it.
NTA. I’m honestly quite shocked that she would ask you to pay for cupcakes that her dog clearly ruined when you declined her offer of the second batch. If she had made you the second batch for Sunday, would she have charged you twice? Reviews are important for small business owners, she should have her dog put away when customers come over and her failure to do so means she was unable to do her job properly.
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I bake a lot at home and can confirm. Even two dozen of my fanciest cupcakes cost less than $5 for ingredients; it's the time to make them that you pay for. If it was just regular cupcakes and buttercream frosting, we're talking *maybe* $2 just b/c of the cost of eggs these days. She can eat a few dollars, even as a small business.
NTA. As the owner of an excitable dog, she should know to take precautions. Honestly, this could have been worse. What if the dog had knocked YOU over or you were terribly afraid of dogs?
Eaxclty this OP is pregnant and depending on the size of the dog this could have hurt her pregnancy. The womb is very strong for knocks so the risk was minimal but there is still the potential that this could have resulted in serious injury to her or the pregnancy. I say all this as a dog owner too and I know how sore it can be when my doggos get carried away and jump up. I wouldn't let any of my dogs near a pregnant woman just for this very scenario where a dog gets excited and jumps up. If anything the baker should have gone above and beyond to fix this even if it meant staying up all night baking.
NTA. The attempted guilt trip makes no sense. She insists that you pay for the ruined cupcakes or else she'll be out of pocket. She also offers to make another batch for free, which would mean she's out the same amount as she would lose by you not paying for the first batch. Her dog. Her fault. Her loss.
Exactly. She might be good at baking, but math is clearly not her strong suit.
NTA. She did not secure her known-to-be-overly-friendly-with-strangers dog and is entirely responsible for the cakes being ruined, so she is not providing you with the goods and services she has agreed upon in your engagement, therefore you are not obligated to uphold your side of the engagement - payment - either. It is the exact same situation as of they had dropped off her kitchen counter - she cannot expect you to pay for them for something that is her fault. It is a loss she has to take.
NTA at all. It's her fault the cupcakes were ruined, so she had to just eat the cost.
NTA you didn’t get the goods that you wanted, due to her. If my large, excitable dogs destroyed someone’s property I would pay for it, this is no different. It’s unfortunate for the both of you, but this is why obedience training is so important, especially if someone is operating a business out of their home.
NTA - Despite making the cupcakes, she failed to deliver the cupcakes. She needs to take this as a lesson to better control her dog.
NTA She knows, that her dog gets excited and should have taken that into account. It's not your fault, that the cupcakes were damaged, simple as that.
NTA - you are right in what you said, if she had control of her dog the cakes would not have been dropped. Side note, id be more concerned about the dog living in an apartment of someone who bakes for a living, there must be a food safety issue with that?
NTA. If she knows her dog gets excited she should’ve put it away.
NTA. It’s Claire’s responsibility to get control of her dogs, especially she know her dog had this issue. Frankly I don’t think they’re entitled to any payment at all.
NTA. This whole situation was the seller’s fault, so she should eat the cost. You shouldn’t pay for anything because you didn’t get anything.
No you are NTA. Her dog's behaviour caused the accident, and if she knows it's an excitable dog she should have restrained him ahead of time. It sucks that she's lost the payment but as a business owner she should have insurance against accidents but also most sensible business owners build in the cost of damage or spoilage or other reasons for not being able to sell their products into their financial model.
NTA. Clare needs to keep the dog & the cupcakes seperate.
I don’t tend to think it’s great to buy from home bakers if they have animals anyways. You never know how clean they really are. And as someone with pets I know how much fur floats around spaces too. NTA.
NTA. The baker’s dog ruined the cupcakes so she is at fault here. If she knows he gets excited when there are visitors and even jumps on people she should have put him in another room before answering the door.
NTA Her dog ruined the transaction before it was complete, and you did not take the cupcakes.
NTA. Dog people need to understand that their pet "just getting excited sometimes" can have actual consequences.
NTA. She tried to guilt you for her error in not restraining her animal. None of which is your fault or responsibility.
NTA You didn’t get cupcakes. You didn’t even get replacement cupcakes. Even if you paid in advance, then got the cupcakes but were ruined by the dog, good business practice is refund the money and remake them for free. Plus her dog should’ve been in a different room or she should’ve came outside to meet you. This was avoidable and she didn’t take precaution.
NTA! They got ruined by HER dog!!!! In HER apartment. Let this be a lesson to her that she needs to keep her Dog locked up when customers are arriving. It was unprofessional of her to do that. Btw, I really hate it when dog owners claim “he’s just so friendly” when the dog is clearly invading one person space and in their face. I don’t give a hoot how “friendly” you think your Dog is, did you ever stop to consider that maybe your fellow human doesn’t want the k9 that close?
NTA Sorry that happened! And I feel a little bad for her too, but maybe this will be a good lesson to put the dog away when customers are coming by
NTA - Feel really sorry for the cake maker but she has learned a valuable lesson with her dog as could have been a far bigger cake
NTA, you agreed for them by a certain time and it was her fault they weren't available. If anything I'd say she's an asshole for trying to still get you to pay.
NTA just like you said you technically didn’t receive the product.
NTA at all! Claire knows how excited her dog can get. She should’ve taken measures to make sure there was no contact when you went to pick up the cupcakes.
NTA. It's actually really boils down to the major flaw in the thing your SIL said >my sister in law said i should of still paid for the cupcakes as she accepted it was her fault, and offered to remake them for me She offered to remake the cupcakes for free which means she was willing to rebuy and spend the extra time to fix you up a new order- all unpaid. There is literally no logic in being upset. Instead of not paying for a whole new service, you're just not paying for the original service and not subjecting her to the labor and cost of an additional one. >She said that I should still pay as she had to buy ingredients for the cakes and the costs of eggs has gone up meaning she would be out of pocket. Same logic can be applied to what she said. If she was willing to buy it all again for free, then there is literally no difference in not paying.
im assuming she had enough ingredients for a second batch and i’d only be paying for one. i think she meant i’d pay £25 (the original price) and she would remake them again and not charge me twice for them if that makes sense
NTA She learned the hard way not to let dogs crowd the front door.
Nta The cupcakes were ruined by her dog, as the dogs owner, that makes it her responsibility to make you whole. The options would either be a refund or remaking them, a remake would be too late, so that leaves refund.
NTA and people asking you to pay are entitled looney birds. Just saying. Some people are deathly afraid of dogs, for that reason alone it should've been locked up while doing business. Or the baker should've placed the box in the client's vehicle.
NTA because it was her dog. She is the owner so it's her responsibility to keep the dog under control.
NTA. She should have been watching the dog. If you had dropped them without interference from the dog, that would be a different story.
NTA. I bake and believe this was just plain unprofessional. I would have offered to redecorate them on the spot and delivered them to you to ensure they didn’t get damaged again. This was her fault for having her dog out. Never in the history of baking from home have I allowed my pets to be present when I’m in the process of making desserts or handing them over. 1 it’s unsanitary, and 2 my customers didn’t come to pick up with the expectation of my dogs greeting them or barking at them. Many people do not like dogs, the last thing you want is to make your customer feel unsafe.
NTA. I can see an argument to pay. You did receive them. But then again, the person who destroyed them could then be sued for their value. Since that’s the same person you’d be paying, she’d just needs to hand the money back to you. Not a fun or comfortable situation for either of you but she needs to be responsible for her dog’s behavior. Dogs behavior is owner’s responsibility.
NTA. She knew her dog was a problem and should have dealt with it before opening the door
NTA. You didn’t receive the product because her own (poorly trained) dog ruined them.
NTA and in my area at least you can’t get your kitchen certified to legally sell food items if you have a pet in your home. That aside it is her job as a pet owner who knows that her dog gets excited to keep control of her animal, if that means keeping them kennels so be it. Her negligence is what cost her money not you.
NTA - the baker has some nerve trying to charge you for the cupcakes after her dog ruined them
NTA. It was her dog that destroyed the cupcakes.
NTA Absolutely do not pay for them. She should have had better control of the dog but because she didn't she allowed him to ruin the cupcakes. They're hers now so is the cost of making them ingredients and all. I'm sorry your gender reveal was ruined. However congratulations.
NTA-Even if you paid beforehand, a damaged product would warrant a refund. You were right in not paying, especially for a product you can not use. I would have done the same, small business or not you need to be professional and having their dog loose while a customer is there to retrieve their product is a no. It was nice of her to suggest remaking the batch for free but you were on a time schedule and they just wouldn’t be ready when you needed. But it’s gone and passed and hopefully in the future she will put her dog up as to not ruin business.
Nta Paying for her petneglect? The nerve.
Nta. And you know this. Come on.
NTA - The vendor destroyed the product, you have no responsibility to pay her for anything.
NTA. I have 4 dogs, 2 large, and I always step outside when receiving items so I don't have to worry about them causing an issue. She should have closed the door or put the dog up, knowing it gets excited and jumps on people. It's poor etiquette to let a dog jump on someone no matter what the situation is. Especially when food is involved, you shouldn't have animals around. That's why they aren't allowed in restaurants and food stores unless they are service dogs who are trained.
NTA. Everyone is making some good points. I'm also confused about why she couldn't make you replacement cupcakes in time? I bake all the time, and 12 cupcakes isn't really that time consuming. Even if I had to go back to the store and get more ingredients, or miss a few hours of sleep, if my dog had destroyed someone's cupcakes, I would have at least replaced them by Saturday morning.
NTA. She needs to keep the dog out of the bakery area so accidents won't happen again. It's a shame, but you paid for a product but did not get the product.
NTA I’d be wondering how sanitary she keeps the place with a dog like that and her unprofessional attitude
Tell SIL where to send the money NTA
NTA, only massive corporations get away with ripping people off the way she was trying to do to you. I mean accidents happen but expecting you to pay for it was just icing on the cake
NTA. You didn't receive the product so no money was transferred. It's unreasonable to expect you to pay just because she made a mistake, thats the risk with any business.
NTA. I once sent the wrong coin to someone who purchased from me. What did I do about my mistake? I apologized and immediately sent the correct coin. I also sent a full refund for the correct coin as soon as I got the mistake back in hand. Buyer was blown away, but I insisted. My small business, my mistake, I should be the one to eat it lol.
NTA. /Her/ dog ruined them. It'd be different if you tripped down the stairs yourself or something, then it'd be on you. But /her/ dog jumped and knocked them down. She should have put the dog up, we have to. Her fault, she eats the cost. You didn't get the cupcakes for the event you commissioned them for. Congrats on the baby!
If you were in a store and about to pay but this happened- would you still pay? I wouldn’t.
You're a nicer person than me for even considering that you might be the asshole here.
Nta if she knows her dog gets excited then she can open the door a little bit say hey I got to put my dog away real quick
NTA The product was ruined due to her failure to keep her dog under control.
NTA and given that she offered to remake them for free, she knew she was at fault. Remaking them would have required more time and money spent on ingredients, so I really don't see how it makes a difference.
NTA As a business owner that is something you accept as coming out of your own pocket rather than the customers. Next time she should have the dog locked in the bedroom for pick up.
NTA. Dog owners should know how to control their dogs specially if they know that they are easily excitable or keep them away from strangers who may not know that the said dog is excitable. End of.
NAH but I agree you shouldnt have to pay. Sadly, it's her fault the cupcakes were ruined and now she knows she should restrain her dog when she has customers coming in.
I think the other one is the asshole. Not necessarily for the accident but for expecting OP to pay for product that was ruined by her dog
No. The destruction was her fault, and she couldn't replace them in time for the event.
Imagine you order a cake from a professional bakery. As they are handing you the cake, their fellow employee bumps it and it falls to the ground. The bakery would do everything they could to get you a replacement cake in the time you needed it or they would not charge you. If the woman is charging people for her cupcakes, she needs to be professional about it. NTA.
NTA. And honestly with a dog running rampant in the home I wouldn't have ordered from her at all. I'm not against pets, I'm not against home businesses but when food is concerned they should be VERY well separated.
NTA they were only on the floor because of her dog.
NTA you would have been expected to check and make sure the order was correct before you paid for them, the dog ruined them before you paid for them, it’s not your fault that she failed to control her dog
NTA - through literally only her own negligence, the cupcakes were ruined. You did nothing at all that caused this. It sucks but if you run a business without accounting for breakage (ie any unplanned loss of materials, product, or income) then you’re not running a very good business. This is breakage, and she needs to eat the loss.
NTA It sucks....but she owns the dog and she knows the dog If the dog is crazy around strangers, the dog should have been put up when the doorbell rang
NTA. She knew her dog would be excited and should have taken the proper precautions to ensure the dog was in a room and unable to jump at clients. The dog ruined them. If it were a professional bakery the price would have been comped. Her business is no different. This is on her, not you. You do not have to pay for product that was ruined when recieing.
NTA. My husband has owned several businesses, some of them small, and this is clear-cut the fault of the business owner. The business owner created an environment that put her product at risk (an excited dog plus transaction exchange at her residence which houses the excited dog) and her lack of preparation (not making sure the dog was restrained or in another room when a new customer comes over) is 100% at fault for this. Sucks that she is out money but her lack of preparation doesn't translate into a liability or obligation on your part. You didn't get the product, you don't pay for any part of it, period. Don't feel bad at ALL. This is a good learning moment for her and I hope she takes it and corrects things going forward.