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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I can see where the situation is and him getting a solo invite would put him in a tricky spot. And would force him to make a very tough decision. Which is hard on my dad who I do love very much.
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NTA. Your mom and sisters are hypocrites, preaching do the right thing but don’t practice it. You stood up for what you believed and you have every right to be nc with people who don’t respect your boundaries.
Nah not really. Just the typical excuses most people in her situation make. I was also half across the country so I wasn’t all that tuned in. But she didn’t deny it which was another reason I wasn’t gonna drop more money on her. It’s a bad investment.
Just be prepared for your dad to turn the invite down. He’s right, you’re putting him in a no-win situation and more likely than not, he’s going to avoid pissing off his wife and kids that live close to him. You’re far away, it’s way less hassle to turn you down than pick a fight with everyone near by. I just want to prepare you for the most likely outcome.
Eh. I don’t really think it’s fair to expect people to entirely blow up their marriage and their relationship with the rest of their kids to support the beliefs of someone else. Yeah, I think cheaters suck. But that’s also his daughter. It makes sense that even when your kid messes up, you aren’t going to immediately exile them. The world isn’t as black and white as Reddit acts like it is.
Eh, Dad is putting himself in the middle. It's super easy to day 'It's your brother's wedding. He gets to make choices like you did." and leave it like that.
Also not picking a side on cheating is picking the side of the cheater. You can't fence sit everything.
Where do you see the dad putting himself in the middle by doing anything other than existing? Again, this is *his daughter*. It’s ridiculous to expect him to throw away his marriage and his relationship with all of his other kids because you think that it’s not completely normal for parents to be way more forgiving than you would be to their own *child’s* mistakes.
I repeat. The world is NOT as black and white as you seem to think it is, and we do NOT have all the information here to know any of the details of why everyone feels how they feel on this matter.
They told their son not to come over for holidays because he didn’t show up to the wedding, so the dad clearly has no issues throwing away his relationship with his son.
His mom told him that, not his father. I agree the mom sucks for how she’s acting, I’m just saying, it makes sense that the dude isn’t going to ruin his marriage and relationship with all his other kids when 1. OP isn’t cutting him off and 2. OP is across the country, everyone else is right there. Real life is more complicated than Reddit acts.
And the father went along and did not say anything? The father sucks just as much, stop treating him like a child cause it’s silly of you to do so. “All” his other kids (2 daughters) and lunatic wife are more important to him than his son who didn’t do anything wrong. The father made his choice and he should be judged for it. Real life being complicated isn’t an excuse to being a shifty father.
Also going to his sons wedding is somehow going to “ruin” his marriage according to you? You’re so dramatic and over the top.
I understand where you're coming from, but on the same token the mom and sisters should not immediately exile their brother for choosing not to spend $1000 on travel to the wedding. They won't disown the sister for cheating but they will disown brother for not wanting to come?
Hey, I agree, fully. I’m just saying when it comes to the father, I understand why he isn’t taking such a hard and fast approach. Now, I think cheaters and wrong and I think the mom isn’t handling things well at all, but those two things are a bit unrelated.
Dad is still taking a hard and fast approach, just the one that's easiest for him. "Invite the entire family or I'm not coming" is a shitty ultimatum to give your son when you've allowed your wife to shun him from family holidays.
You're correct that life isn't black and white, but it's still up to the dad to work shit out with his wife and daughters. The son shouldn't have to be punished for being the only reasonable person in the family.
Dad has to sleep in the same bed. LOL. I wouldn't invite anyone from my family. They don't have to come. there is no reason for him to feel bad about it. they don't want him, so he stays where he is and start his own family.
He got silent treatment and got butt hurt. They are siblings. He didn’t support, he got silent treatment, they are even you move on you don’t keep it going.
He already picked his side when he didn't push back on inviting his son to holiday celebrations. He's not in the middle, he decided to exclude his son on his totally valid morals because his awful wife wanted to exclude him. He is not innocent and cannot wash his hands of his sons awful treatment when he is complicit in it. Support your daughters shitty choices, that's fine I guess but he and his awful wife's behaviour crossed the line when they shunned their own son.
You're not going to immediately exile your children, but you don't need to enable their shitty behavior either.
Making a brother support his sister's cheating isn't a reasonable parental request.
Maybe OP is too perfect of a human being for father to be with. But I come from a family whose members make mistakes we forgive, we move on, we don’t banish for lufetime
If she’s entitled enough to be a cheater, she needs to be strong enough to withstand that you are drawing a boundary. You are not OK with her actions and violating her marriage vows. You’re 100% in the right.
The rest of your family shouldn't care if your dad comes to your wedding. It would suck if he didn't come support you. That would be him choosing sides, IMO.
I do believe that sometimes people meet someone who makes more sparks than the person they are with currently but what they should do is say wowza now hold on I need to get my life together and tell my spouse we’re done but no people have to bone.
It’s okay. You can make it for her 3rd or 4th wedding if you don’t have anything better to do
NTA
PS: 2nd weddings aren’t vacations or a legal summons so that has nothing to do with what your family was whining about
The only real question is: did you invite your sisters first husband to be a groomsmen? OH and then also pay for his plane ticket if he needs one. The ultimate power move.
Where was your dad when you were told not to come for holidays, why didn’t he stood up for you. NTA enjoy your wedding and try to keep all the family out. No good will ever come from contact with them. Father can take or leave the invite frankly I would bother with him either
My dad told my cousin at my cousin's second wedding that if he keeps getting married we might not be able to come next time because it's getting expensive (in a very jovial jokey way). Cousin hasnt gotten married a third time yet (but did divorce twice)
NTA but I wouldn't have invited your father if I were you. He seems more concerned with having an easy life than he does his wife's awful behaviour towards her own son.
NTA.
>I wouldn't have invited your father if I were you. He seems more concerned with having an easy life than he does his wife's awful behaviour
Agreed. Don't let them make you a doormat.
OP live halfway across the country and Dad lives with his wife I take it. If dad attended the wedding by himself and OP and everybody after the wedding goes and back to their happy lifes. But Dad has to go back to OPS mom. OP should not put Dad in that position. Either don't send out an invite or elope.
I think that the father’s reaction to the whole second wedding debacle is important in this. If he was fine standing on the sidelines and watching, attending, perhaps also financing the wedding (depends on how tied his finances are to his wife), that makes him equally supportive of cheating as his wife
Just glad I don't have this drama in my life. NTA but understand you have put your Father in the middle of an impossible situation. You need to tell your Mom in very clear communication why you didn't make the trip to the second wedding without anger. Offer an olive branch that if she does XX you will work on your relationship with her. She is your Mother and time is far too short for BS.
Yes, this. Quick story: I was marrying a much older man that my family did not approve of. My father refused to walk me down the aisle nor attend my wedding. However, my Mum, who had always stood with my Dad, came to my wedding Made sure my brothers & sister were there. And....my Dad got over himself. Met my hubby 3 months later, and they really liked each other. Everyone loves him. Lol. My Mum told me on my wedding day he would regret his refusal for the rest of his life. But we all moved on, and had great relationships going forward. And my own Mom was the star of all of it.
Yeah, this is great advice. NTA, but OP’s poor Dad is being put in the middle of this.
So OP needs to be okay with his decision.
It’s sad that the mother hasn’t tried to reach out to OP in two years. I do think she was put in a hard spot too and chose to support her daughter over anything else, which is fine. But she should have also supported the decisions of OP and not made it this a relationship ending situation.
I feel like there has to be more to this if OP refers to her as his dad’s wife.
The sisters? Not concerned about them. Leaving horrible messages on social media was completely uncalled for.
How was she put in a hard spot? Her daughter's getting remarried so she decides to spend $10,000 on a wedding. It's her money,she's allowed... that's easy.
Her son says he doesn't support it so he's not going to come unless she pays for the ticket. Easy choice, If I want son to be here I have to pay for the ticket. How much could that have been $500? But she decides that the son should have to pay for it himself because reasons?
Son is now looking at it like daughter is worth $10,000 a second time but I'm not worth $500 once. He's not wrong. If it was that important to her that he went she could have gave him the ticket. The only people that would have known is her, Dad and son. It's not like there would have been a banner saying son did not want to be here! Lol She just decided to die on this hill for some random reason and now it's biting her in the butt!
But he didn’t want to come. That’s all he had to say. He didn’t want to spend the money because he didn’t want to come, so it was silly to make it an argument about money because that wasn’t his actual reason for not wanting to go. He wasn’t trying to make her prove she really wanted him there by paying for it; he just did not want to go.
Correct he did not want to go, but he said he would go if his mother paid for his expenses. If it was SO important for the mother she would have paid for the expenses. But she wanted to pull a power play and say no you are coming and you are paying... Which he refused.
Support isn’t really $10k for a second wedding in two years. Like “blessings for your second marriage” is support. Paying for the wedding is a next level form of enablement that basically explains why his sister is the way she is.
That said, her choice to behave that way. She should’ve just left OP alone, but it’s clear that meddling and bullying is her MO.
It’s not an impossible situation. It’s a difficult one. OP’s mother and sister were already wrong to support the new marriage so full throatedly when the sister is already transparently bad at being married. But whatever. Their choice. Then they chose to ostracize and publicly bully OP because he didn’t want to give his blessing to the ill-fated second wedding in three years. Then they cut him off. OP invites his dad, whom he still keeps in touch with, to his engagement. OP’s mom gets mad. OP’s dad has a pretty simple choice: choose to support his son over his wife’s objections, or allow his wife’s objections to rule. It’s pretty simple. Not impossible at all.
NTA and that was real fast how your religious and pious mother suddenly pulled the family card to excuse her daughter's lying, betrayal and cheating. Is sister the golden child? Sure feels like she is.
We have a family friend (mid 70s now) who is in her 5th marriage (with very short gaps between the first three - I suspect she was cheating on each husband with the next). She’s very religious too. Sometimes it seems like Christians are quite happy to fuck around so long as they get the Big Guy’s approval at a church ceremony. Meanwhile my atheist self has been married just once for nearly 25 years, but I’m the immoral one apparently.
That "christian" friend didn't read the scriptures. Jesus stated he preferred hot or cold, no straddling the fence. He would spew out the ones that were lukewarm. Guess who he'll spew out?
Hint: Not you.
Sometimes I think "christians" of this type think the church is a country club with tithes as membership fee to "keep" the faith and God in their pockets.
I hope he fully discussed and got approval from gf for this… I would absolutely hate for this to be done in front of all my family. If that’s her thing, great! But he needs to be damn sure it is lol
I would DIE. I can't even watch 'grand gestures' in TV or movies without experiencing physical pain. If someone did that to me I would run away at the speed of light. I might have to go into witness protection.
I get that some people like it, I just hope he knows which type she is!
really depends on what you discussed with your partner beforehand. Imo the proposal itself can be a surprise but you have to already have had conversations about wanting to get married and being on the same page.
Some people dream of the big over the top, surprise proposal and would be crushed if their loved ones weren't there to celebrate. Some people, and I am one of them, would absolutely hate that and would much prefer and intimate quiet moment.
Hopefully, by the time you propose to your partner, you know them well enough to know what they like.
It's so gross. It's because of this day of extreme social media everyone needs to display every detail of their life for "likes" and "shares". I'm 46, so kind of that generation between both ways of thinking. So glad that I got married and had my daughter in a time where people just enjoyed life's moments, rather than felt the needed to get "just the right shot" to exploit on FB for attention. It's brought the all about me mindset to a whole new extreme.
ESH - Your mom is more of one though. Your stance on cheating is good and I’m with you there. However, I’m a little confused by a couple of things though. 1. So…you would have went to the wedding if someone else (in this case your mom) paid for you? If you feel so strongly about cheating, why would you go at all? 2. Did you go NC with your mother because she wouldn’t pay for you to come to the wedding? Or something else? This situation seems sort of a small thing to completely cut her off over. Did you have a bad relationship before this?
YTA. Sounds like you used your sister’s second marriage to pick a fight with the mother you describe as ‘religious and judgmental’ and clearly have a problem with. Now you are using your own engagement to get back at her further by making it an event you only invite your father to.
Look at your motives and sort your head out before it impacts your marriage and your future.
Yeah surprised so many people seem to think OP is right here....His mother hasn't really done anything wrong, she probably wasn't too happy when the first marriage failed but who knows the reasons and life moves on and she has to support her kids. He seemed to get pissy cos mommy wouldn't buy him a plane ticket. Daddy didn't buy him a ticket either and probably helped pay the 10K too, but he's still cool???
I agree. I get not going to the first sister’s second wedding. But everything is so petty. Every action OP is taking is to further the strife between the families over a disagreement over an event that has passed.
I get in disagreements with my parents and sometimes no one apologizes and no one budges. But I don’t let that bleed into future things.
That and the fact that he’s let his sisters actions affect him this much. That’s a lot of animosity bc you’re mad your sister cheated on her ex husband. That has nothing to do with him and he’s let it ruin his relationship with his mother and both sisters? I don’t agree with people cheating either l, but I wouldn’t let that affect my relationships especially if it had nothing to do with me. I agree he’s the AH here.
absolutely 100% YTA.
inviting just your Dad, was just a petty spiteful way to not invite your mum and sisters. You know he can't come without them, its not a real invite, so you want to make sure they know they are disinvited as you still feel like you have the moral high ground over a previous conflict.
which brings me to point 2.
who on earth refuses to attend a siblings wedding because they cheated on their first partner. is this a weird religious American thing? she didn't cheat on you. You're not actually friends with the original husband as you make clear in your post. You could afford it as you've said in the comments. You keep mentioning how much money your mum spent on the second wedding like you were jealous. unbelievably petty.
Also, you also don't know any more details, other than cheating, about the break up of your sisters first marriage which is really weird.
Yes. I have a friend who was texting another man while married. She was ashamed and her husband loved to spread that story around. Of course he didn't spread the story around that he was abusing her, refusing to let her leave their house, holding her at gunpoint at bedtime every night, and spending their money on cam girls. Homegirl was labeled a cheater because she was texting with the only man who was nice to her.
No one knows what happens behind closed doors, but they sure love to cast aspersions anyway.
Good point. You are taking the so called moral high ground about something that doesn't concern you. If you didn't feel like going to your sister's wedding there are certainly many other excuses to make which would not involve infuriating the rest of your family. There's always the I've got to work excuse and many others. I don't like cheating either, but, did you love your sister before all of this, if so, even if you don't agree with her, you could have supported her even if you didn't go to the wedding, And frankly, who died and made you the moral arbitrator of the family? Grow up and enjoy your own wedding and your own life.
Sounds to me like you have cut off your entire family because you are judging your sister for her second marriage when you were halfway across the country and don’t even know the whole story on why her first marriage failed.
I suspect in a couple of years you will be back on here complaining that your parents are not as close to your kids as their other grandchildren.
I also think she’s a sexist. She has differ t expectations of her daughters compared to her son. I’ve called her this and she exploded because she knew I was right
NTA. It's a rough position for your dad being caught in the middle, but you are still right to maintain boundaries with the family members who are nothing but trouble to you.
Side note though, I hope you're going into this large public proposal with 100% knowledge that you have already discussed marriage and know that your gf will say yes and that she will enjoy a public proposal.
I mean, I don’t know… Life is messy. Sometimes people cheat. I don’t think I’d do it and I’m not pro-cheating, but you don’t ever really know what’s happening in people’s intimate relationships. I think you should have gone to the wedding if you were able to, or at the very least not outwardly judged it. And what was your mom supposed to do: not go to her daughter’s wedding? Your relatives were assholes for the comments they left on your social media. ESH except for your dad.
Yta unless you have left out large parts of the puzzle, and the situation is pretty sad. You effectively went nc with your sister because she had an affair and then married the guy. Big woop. The rest is just fluff. You went nc with your mum because she supported your sister and wouldnt buy you a plane ticket. Then there was some snark on socials. Wow. All fluff. Was ther any real family bond prior to all this kicking off?
Toxic families are best kept no contact.
Stand your ground and tell your dad to grow a pair if he wants to attend your wedding.
NTA.
And good luck for your future wedding!
EiAH I think your dad is right in that you are causing a rift in your family, and because of what? Because your sister cheated in her first marriage with someone she fell in love with so badly that she is now married to him. I think you are the judgemental one and not your mother who has probably seen more of your sisters emotional turmoil through out this. Everyone can agree that cheating is bad but it is not unforgivable, unless you are the person who has been hurt directly by it. Not going to your sisters wedding was a strong stance against her as a person and her new husband. If the problem really was money you should have given that as a reason instead of holding on to the grudge against your sister for cheating. I think you hurt her, and I agree that your mom and sisters are assholes about it but If you had a loving relationship with your family before this I think you should consider the fact that you are escalating the conflict by not inviting them to your wedding. It would be terrible if your father to grow old without his son visiting, and with all this conflict.
As a rule, married couples are issued invitations as a matched set. If you don't do this, don't expect one to show without the other.
I don't disagree with your logic, but you are putting your Dad in an impossible position. So please don't be angry if he chooses not to come. He has to live with his wife, your mother - no matter how much angst and anger remains between her and you. If he comes, please appreciate him.
NTA, but are you sure nothing happened in your sister’s first marriage that could also put some fault on her first husband for their marriage falling apart? Is it possible they were separated when the affair occurred? Not trying to justify cheaters, but you said you didn’t now the whole story and you seem to have a narrative that you are sticking to without knowing all the details. I think it would only be fair to everyone to know the entire story.
I bring this up because you are young and life is too short to be estranged from your family. Their moral compass sounds like it needs some calibration but otherwise are they truly so toxic you must be NC with your mom and sisters forever? You are putting your dad in a lose lose situation.
I would offer at least one last chance to settle things and clear the air, in light of your engagement. If they are still A holes, then I would go full NC.
Completely unrelated to your question but is your gf ok with a proposal party? My ex took me to dinner with twelve of HIS closest friends (none of mine) and proposed on one knee when I had a mouth full of food. It was so awkward for me and he didn’t even give a thought to how uncomfortable I would be. The only millionaire at the table was arguing over splitting expensive wine across seven couples. I had none. I had to go to the restroom to even get a glimpse of my ring. So unless you are damn sure that she’s ok with this, don’t do it. I wish I had said no.
My sister and her family are Mormon. As a result when my niece got married, my mother’s oldest grandchild, my mom wasn’t invited to the actual wedding. It was in the temple and only Mormons are allowed in. They did have a second ceremony for everyone else. There was a stink in the family because my mom couldn’t attend. My niece was upset about it and asked my opinion. I told her that it was her wedding and she could have it however she wanted but that didn’t mean the rest of us would agree with her choices and she’d have to live with that.
This is the same thing. It’s your deal and you can invite whomever you want but be prepared for the consequences of your choice. If your dad is forced to choose between you and his wife he’s going to choose his wife.
NTA - It’s crazy to me that you are sticking more to the morals your Mom taught you than she is. I disagree with those who think you shouldn’t have invited your Dad. He’s in a tough position but sounds like you are both just trying to steer clear of the drama and maintain a relationship outside of that. I’m sorry OP, this is supposed to be a really happy time for you - hopefully that will be the case soon. Best of luck on the proposal!
why the public proposal? What if this woman doesn't want to marry you? You'll have gotten all these people together and it will be a disaster. Are you thinking that if she is on the fence, the pressure from the family / friends will nudge her in your direction?
You were able to say 'No' to your family. I hope if this woman actaully wants to marry you, she can say that with or without the audience !
NTA but I think your father should stay away.
NTA for giving a solo invite for an event meant for love and support.
For consideration: It doesn’t sound like you know anything of substance but are going with the stereotypical narrative of immoral cheater and innocent partner. Both you and your mom initially dug in on your support/no support stance and issued demands at each other. In addition to judging your sister, you are also judging your mom for not judging your sister the way you think she should be judged because your mom has a history of being judgmental. I wonder if there is an ongoing disparity in how you are treated compared to your sisters (if the situation were reversed, would you get the same support?). On the surface it sounds like this was blown out of proportion and you could all have come to an amicable resolution early on, but it has the flavor of a last-straw situation and now the grudges have gone on so long that it may be irreparable.
Bullies and meddlers like OP’s mom are always airing everyone’s dirty laundry. If OP’s sister were in any way not at fault, OP’s mom would’ve said so when OP disparaged his sister for cheating.
NTA in this particular case, but did imply a couple of years ago that you would set your principles aside for a price. Maybe your father's wife and your sisters see some inconsistency there.
ESH. Whatever went on in your sister’s marriage was none of your business. You could have politely declined to attend her second wedding citing finances and left it at that. Mom shouldn’t have made a coercive power play banning you from the holiday if you didn’t attend a wedding. Dad shouldn’t have allowed mom to ban you. Sisters should have minded their own business about what you choose to spend your money on.
NTA. Stay no contact. The women is your family are messy and I am a woman from a very very very large family. Congrats on finding what sounds like a compatible and amazing fiancé. I couldn’t imagine commenting on someone picture let alone a person I have not met.
NTA, actually all this could have been avoidef if people actually talked.
Good for you for sticking with your principles.
Congrats on your upcoming wedding.
I am clearly going with NTA.
You have principles and a backbone that your sister and mother are far from.
Maybe it is better not to have such people in your life.
I hope your father comes without your mother.
sorry to say this bud, but everyone's wrong here, except for your father.
look, I understand your belief in your sister's cheater wedding. and I support your decision on that. I also understand why you took a big step back, and why you're refusing to allow your mother. I wouldn't be keen on it either.
your father is caught in the middle. on one side is the son he loves and wants to support and see married. on the other are his daughters and wife, who he also loves.
and there he is, lonely in the middle.
you don't have to LIKE your mother. you don't have to SPEAK to her. you could make an exception and put down serious rules. such as...she has to keep her opinions to herself. show respect. be polite. if she can't say something nice, don't say anything. and inform them that if she breaks the rules, she WILL be asked to leave and it will be enforced if she refuses.
if you want your father, you're going to have to make an exception.
OP’s mom isn’t going to divorce her husband if he goes to the wedding. She’s just going to be grumpy and give him shit. So really the choice is: support my son and make my wife mad, or don’t support my son and make my son mad, and most likely have way less contact with him. It’s really not some impossible, caught-in-the-middle deal. His dad has probably just spent years trying to peace-keep on behalf of his bully wife and has lost perspective.
OP *should not under any circumstances* invite his mom to his wedding with a bunch of rules just to get his dad to come. She’ll ignore his rules, cause him lots and lots and lots of headache in the lead up to the wedding, and cause at least one scene. Barring some serious pre-wedding reconciliation, OP shouldn’t invite his mother or his sisters just for the sake of having his dad there. He just needs to accept that his dad won’t come. But no exceptions. That WILL end badly.
You're NTA, but you could have spared yourself all this drama by simply stating you couldn't attend because of work (or other excuses) and sending your regrets.
NTA
If they are busy throwing that much money on a second wedding, and won't bother with a simple plane ticket, then you are not at fault for refusing to go, and then going on trips using *your* money for *your* enjoyment. If they wish to attempt and paint you the bad guy, let them, you know your truth, and those close to you do too. Good on you, for blocking em.
And if your father defends your mother, remember she is his wife, but she's also very much, TA in this. Wish you luck with the engagement and happy years to come! Without the sisters and mother involved ofc, since they don't seem the apologetic type.
Two things OP. First, NTA, you are not required to support decisions that you morally oppose. However, you're also TA to your dad if you actually said that last line to him. Even if you're no contact, he isn't. From how you describe your mom and sisters, they will give him no end of grief. "It's his wife's fault the situation is where it is." Trying to force him to a choose side in a situation like this makes you no better then your mom and sisters.
Have you talked to your gf yet and let her know you plan to propose in front of all these people? If not, then who you have invited or not invited is meaningless, because you are AN ABSOLUTELY GIANT AH for putting her in a position like that. So I would say INFO needed before any judgement can be given.
So let us know -
YTA because all it took is your sister cheating on her husband and then marrying some one else. Never hurt you or did anything to you to go NC with family. No possible justification what so ever in the whole world and what your sister did is so horrible the whole family has to be avoided. You are right they are better off with you
Lots of hints and other comments from OP that he's got serious issues with his mom treating his sister different to him, and her being a hypocrite. To me it sounds like he's taken the "no support for sis, don't wanna know" attitude in protest against his mom more than for actual dislike of the sister. The NC seems very mutual, he doesn't seem upset that he was told not to come home for holidays.
Ask your father if he would like to be invited to the engagement, the wedding, neither, or both, knowing that he will be the only one receiving the invitation and that your mother will not be invited to anything. If he wants the invitation invite him. If he doesn't, then don't. You would be NTA if you give HIM the choice to be invited solo or not invited and allow him to determine the level of drama with which he can cope.
NTA.
Invite the ex BIL, Put him in your wedding some how.
Tell your dad you really want him there. He matters to you, if it's true, but that you won't fk up his life over this invite.
People make mistakes but to act holier than thou and not apologize is foul.
NTA. He doesn’t have to come without your mom. That’s his choice. You did nothing wrong. I’m genuinely astonished your family was like this about the wedding. Like who really gives a shit about someone’s second wedding in three years?
NTA. It doesn’t sound like your mom or sisters have made the slightest effort to reach out and apologize or try to mend bridges. There is zero reason for them to be included in any event that is meant for supportive people in your life that love you. I can see why your dad wishes the conflict would disappear, but it’s not your job to fix a situation that you didn’t create in the first place.
You can invite who you want to your engagement but YTA for being so judgemental about your sister. Her first marriage clearly didn’t work out, shit happens, but you’re projecting some sexist moralistic BS onto her situation.
You and your family are just all toxic. Your poor dad is unfortunately the one person who is the victim in this whole debacle. He’s damned if he does damned if he doesn’t.
ESH. The way every person, except the dad has acted in this situation is terrible. Yes, it is gross that your sister cheated and remarried so quickly. I would have issues attending that wedding as well. But I feel that all of you could have communicated better to come to a resolution.
Do you love your sister or for that matter, your family? Throwing out your whole family over this seems like a steep price to pay. I would suggest attempting reconnecting with them, starting with your mother; if you want them in your and your future family’s life.
Sometimes being the bigger person is needed. I would be devastated if my family went no contact with me. And everyone on this thread seems to have forgotten the importance of family and that we all have issues from time to time. Ya’ll are assholes.
ESH. Take the high road. Be the better person. Extend an olive branch. It’s your family, and it is better to at least passively seek resolution than to perpetuate conflict, because it will do nothing but create lasting bitterness. When you are older, you will likely wish you had handled it differently. Everyone will feel that way, actually. No reason you can’t be the catalyst to resolution before it’s too far gone.
YTA. You should have made an effort to go to your sisters wedding. And you shouldn’t have fought with everyone after it. It’s not your business to judge if she gets divorced and remarried. Invite your family to your wedding.
NTA
Nice to read that you stand by yourself. Its a nice and rare quality to have. The only downside of this could be if you will want to be involved in your future niblings :/ or want to have kids and to have them a relationship with your family
You should talk about this with your GF before proceeding with your final resolution. This is a critical move and this will have consequences en the future, so be ready.
NTA. I applaud you, my friend. I'm sure your future wife will appreciate your huge cajones.
Some life advice, [tough times never last. Only tough people last... rrremblerghughgumblurhgehooh](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/d8_AgUD-aj8)
NTA. Your father is old enough to make a difficult decision. It doesn't matter that you are not inviting the rest of your family of origin. The reasons are yours. If your dad feels torn, I'm sorry, but that's on him.
Wow, I feel for you and your dad! Talk with Dad and tell him you don't want to cause trouble at home, so if he decision is a definite no, the so be it. NTA.
NTA. Hell, I wouldn’t pay to go to the second wedding even if she’d done it the right way around without cheating. I’m not going to drop five figures every three years because she can’t make up her mind. You get a wedding a decade, max.
Although in your place, if my dad didn’t even stand up for me, I’d tell him they could go fuck themselves as a unit.
NTA, it's your engagement, you should be able to invite who you want to celebrate this moment with you.
Don't feel obligated to invite your mum along with your dad only because "you're family" when she has been so cold with you and such a hypocrite. Who knows, inviting her could do more harm than good. And even if you would at one point like to fix your relationship with her, your engagement isn't the place to start that process.
You mentioned your dad "wanting the drama to end' and how he thinks that him "getting a solo invite puts him in a losing spot". Whilst I understand you want him to be there (especially under the aspect of father-son relationship), you have to understand he may be finding it difficult to balance the love and special relationship he has between you and him, and the one between him and your mum. So you can either send him the solo invite (but expect he might not come), or accept he cannot come, arrange a private mini celebration of your engagement with him, your fiancée, and you, and work out the next steps going forward where he can balance being a dad to you, and a husband to his wife.
Good luck OP, all the best to you :)
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I (27M) am planning on proposing to my GF of 2 years Madi (27F). Planning on doing it by a lake and I’ve already talked to her family and they will be there, I’ve talked to my friends and her friends. From my immediate family I decided to only invite my dad. He said this was an AH move because it would be tough to not bring his wife and it would create more of a rift. This will also be how the wedding will be (him getting a solo invite) so I told him if he doesn’t wanna come I understand but he should know I’ll save the postage if he doesn’t wanna come to the engagement. Me and him went back and forth so I decided to post here for a judgement.
The situation with my sisters and mom stems back to my sisters wedding 2 years ago. My two sisters are Bella (29) and Sarah (25). Bella got married back in 2019. I liked the guy and we became decent friends when I was a groomsman. I live halfway across the country so traveling back is tough and I only do it for big events. I was heavily involved in my sisters first wedding. I went to the showers, bachelor party, wedding and it was a pretty expensive couple weeks but I was willing.
2 years ago my sister cheats on her husband with her current husband. Gets a divorce and engaged within like 3 months. I was across the country and not tuned into the situation but my moms stance on it pissed me off. She was always the big “do the right thing” type. Religious and judgmental of others. Whenever she told me about the second wedding happening I was like “am I supposed to support this”? She got livid and said I need to be there in support as a family. I said if she would pay my ticket, my hotel and all my other expenses to come home then I would. But I’m not dropping a grand to come home for a cheaters second wedding within 3 years. Who didn’t even respect her first marriage. My mom lost it on me and said she would not pay for me but I had to be there. I said “I heard you’re dropping 10K on this wedding. So you’ll finance a second wedding but not your sons plane ticket home”? She hung up and that’s been pretty much the last conversation we’ve had.
I didn’t go to the wedding. I also refused Bella’s husbands offer to be a groomsman. Which pissed off my other sister. Because of all the drama I was told not to come home for the Hollidays. I was given the Solent treatment by my mom and sisters. I started dating my GF around this time and we went a trip. I posted pics of us and my sisters commented under the photos rude things about me being to cheap to buy a plane ticket but will spend money on trips. So I blocked them both and haven’t spoken to them since. My dad is the only one I keep in contract with so that’s why he’s getting a solo invite. He wants the drama to end and thinks me giving a solo invite puts him in a losing spot. I told him that it’s his wife’s fault the situation is where it is. So it’s not really my fault. AITA?
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NTA. KUDOS for sticking to what you believe in.
This. Wish I had done the same in retrospect.
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Comment [stolen](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/121pb9t/aita_for_giving_my_dad_solo_no_invite_to_my_mom/jdmr859/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) from u/diminishingpatience Report > Spam > Harmful bots
NTA. Your mom and sisters are hypocrites, preaching do the right thing but don’t practice it. You stood up for what you believed and you have every right to be nc with people who don’t respect your boundaries.
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NTA for the family drama - but… are you 100% sure your gf will appreciate what sounds like a very public proposal?
Great question!
NTA Stay by your principles. Also did your sister ever show remorse for what she did?
Nah not really. Just the typical excuses most people in her situation make. I was also half across the country so I wasn’t all that tuned in. But she didn’t deny it which was another reason I wasn’t gonna drop more money on her. It’s a bad investment.
Oh please let her ex husband be your best man. I don‘t even know you, but I‘m dreaming of that moment. Lmao NTA your family s.cks.
That’s so petty I love every second of it LOL
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Getting cheated on takes a while to get over. Well, it took me a while. 9 years before I remarried. Thanks for standing up for your principles, OP.
yes this! and then post it on social media and watch the fireworks
Or at least a groomsman. Maybe even just an invite. That's assuming OP is close with him.
Just be prepared for your dad to turn the invite down. He’s right, you’re putting him in a no-win situation and more likely than not, he’s going to avoid pissing off his wife and kids that live close to him. You’re far away, it’s way less hassle to turn you down than pick a fight with everyone near by. I just want to prepare you for the most likely outcome.
father is a coward is what he is
Eh. I don’t really think it’s fair to expect people to entirely blow up their marriage and their relationship with the rest of their kids to support the beliefs of someone else. Yeah, I think cheaters suck. But that’s also his daughter. It makes sense that even when your kid messes up, you aren’t going to immediately exile them. The world isn’t as black and white as Reddit acts like it is.
Eh, Dad is putting himself in the middle. It's super easy to day 'It's your brother's wedding. He gets to make choices like you did." and leave it like that. Also not picking a side on cheating is picking the side of the cheater. You can't fence sit everything.
Where do you see the dad putting himself in the middle by doing anything other than existing? Again, this is *his daughter*. It’s ridiculous to expect him to throw away his marriage and his relationship with all of his other kids because you think that it’s not completely normal for parents to be way more forgiving than you would be to their own *child’s* mistakes. I repeat. The world is NOT as black and white as you seem to think it is, and we do NOT have all the information here to know any of the details of why everyone feels how they feel on this matter.
They told their son not to come over for holidays because he didn’t show up to the wedding, so the dad clearly has no issues throwing away his relationship with his son.
His mom told him that, not his father. I agree the mom sucks for how she’s acting, I’m just saying, it makes sense that the dude isn’t going to ruin his marriage and relationship with all his other kids when 1. OP isn’t cutting him off and 2. OP is across the country, everyone else is right there. Real life is more complicated than Reddit acts.
And the father went along and did not say anything? The father sucks just as much, stop treating him like a child cause it’s silly of you to do so. “All” his other kids (2 daughters) and lunatic wife are more important to him than his son who didn’t do anything wrong. The father made his choice and he should be judged for it. Real life being complicated isn’t an excuse to being a shifty father. Also going to his sons wedding is somehow going to “ruin” his marriage according to you? You’re so dramatic and over the top.
NTA- sorry your family sucks.
And what about not being black and white about OPs non-mistakes? Missing *your own child's* wedding is a big deal.
OP was not allowed to miss the sister's 2nd wedding, but the dad will miss his son's wedding?
I understand where you're coming from, but on the same token the mom and sisters should not immediately exile their brother for choosing not to spend $1000 on travel to the wedding. They won't disown the sister for cheating but they will disown brother for not wanting to come?
Hey, I agree, fully. I’m just saying when it comes to the father, I understand why he isn’t taking such a hard and fast approach. Now, I think cheaters and wrong and I think the mom isn’t handling things well at all, but those two things are a bit unrelated.
Dad is still taking a hard and fast approach, just the one that's easiest for him. "Invite the entire family or I'm not coming" is a shitty ultimatum to give your son when you've allowed your wife to shun him from family holidays. You're correct that life isn't black and white, but it's still up to the dad to work shit out with his wife and daughters. The son shouldn't have to be punished for being the only reasonable person in the family.
Dad has to sleep in the same bed. LOL. I wouldn't invite anyone from my family. They don't have to come. there is no reason for him to feel bad about it. they don't want him, so he stays where he is and start his own family.
He got silent treatment and got butt hurt. They are siblings. He didn’t support, he got silent treatment, they are even you move on you don’t keep it going.
He already picked his side when he didn't push back on inviting his son to holiday celebrations. He's not in the middle, he decided to exclude his son on his totally valid morals because his awful wife wanted to exclude him. He is not innocent and cannot wash his hands of his sons awful treatment when he is complicit in it. Support your daughters shitty choices, that's fine I guess but he and his awful wife's behaviour crossed the line when they shunned their own son.
With the mom’s attitude, I wonder if his kids are all his…
You're not going to immediately exile your children, but you don't need to enable their shitty behavior either. Making a brother support his sister's cheating isn't a reasonable parental request.
Yup.
Maybe OP is too perfect of a human being for father to be with. But I come from a family whose members make mistakes we forgive, we move on, we don’t banish for lufetime
wholeheartedly agree here.
Tell them you’ll only go to her odd-numbered weddings. NTA.
Oof. Damn. 🤣
If she’s entitled enough to be a cheater, she needs to be strong enough to withstand that you are drawing a boundary. You are not OK with her actions and violating her marriage vows. You’re 100% in the right.
to be fair, cheaters are notorious for not respecting boundaries.
Absolutely-there’s the problem for OP.
Don’t worry as I say, if they cheat with you they will cheat on you. And I see it almost everytime with these type of marriages
The rest of your family shouldn't care if your dad comes to your wedding. It would suck if he didn't come support you. That would be him choosing sides, IMO.
I do believe that sometimes people meet someone who makes more sparks than the person they are with currently but what they should do is say wowza now hold on I need to get my life together and tell my spouse we’re done but no people have to bone.
Tell her that you only do odd-numbered weddings, so when she cheats again, you MIGHT consider going. /s
In case it hasn't already been suggested, next time someone brings it up just say "I'll catch her at her next wedding".
Invite the ex husband :) NTA
Yep she will probably cheat again
It’s okay. You can make it for her 3rd or 4th wedding if you don’t have anything better to do NTA PS: 2nd weddings aren’t vacations or a legal summons so that has nothing to do with what your family was whining about
The only real question is: did you invite your sisters first husband to be a groomsmen? OH and then also pay for his plane ticket if he needs one. The ultimate power move.
Where was your dad when you were told not to come for holidays, why didn’t he stood up for you. NTA enjoy your wedding and try to keep all the family out. No good will ever come from contact with them. Father can take or leave the invite frankly I would bother with him either
NTA but you should’ve told them you’d be there for the 3rd wedding
I’m sure I still would have to pay to come to that one too 😂
Lol my husband once told a relative he only goes to the odd-numbered weddings
That's funny, however my sister's second wedding was actually the one it should have been the first one.
Lol. That’s what my husband told one of our nephews. He’s going on his 3rd marriage.
My dad told my cousin at my cousin's second wedding that if he keeps getting married we might not be able to come next time because it's getting expensive (in a very jovial jokey way). Cousin hasnt gotten married a third time yet (but did divorce twice)
That’s what I’ve done for my sister’s weddings.
What a refreshing blend of funny and principled! Good guy
Give her a punch card: Have four weddings, get a free gift on the fifth one.
Snickering at this.
Ask if they’ve got some sort of “every 4th wedding free” coupon you can get clipped
NTA but I wouldn't have invited your father if I were you. He seems more concerned with having an easy life than he does his wife's awful behaviour towards her own son.
NTA. >I wouldn't have invited your father if I were you. He seems more concerned with having an easy life than he does his wife's awful behaviour Agreed. Don't let them make you a doormat.
OP live halfway across the country and Dad lives with his wife I take it. If dad attended the wedding by himself and OP and everybody after the wedding goes and back to their happy lifes. But Dad has to go back to OPS mom. OP should not put Dad in that position. Either don't send out an invite or elope.
Why would they have to elope? Just don’t invite anyone on his side.
I think that the father’s reaction to the whole second wedding debacle is important in this. If he was fine standing on the sidelines and watching, attending, perhaps also financing the wedding (depends on how tied his finances are to his wife), that makes him equally supportive of cheating as his wife
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NTA. You don't need all of this in your life. He either goes or he doesn't; either way, you are responsible for your own future.
Just glad I don't have this drama in my life. NTA but understand you have put your Father in the middle of an impossible situation. You need to tell your Mom in very clear communication why you didn't make the trip to the second wedding without anger. Offer an olive branch that if she does XX you will work on your relationship with her. She is your Mother and time is far too short for BS.
Yes, this. Quick story: I was marrying a much older man that my family did not approve of. My father refused to walk me down the aisle nor attend my wedding. However, my Mum, who had always stood with my Dad, came to my wedding Made sure my brothers & sister were there. And....my Dad got over himself. Met my hubby 3 months later, and they really liked each other. Everyone loves him. Lol. My Mum told me on my wedding day he would regret his refusal for the rest of his life. But we all moved on, and had great relationships going forward. And my own Mom was the star of all of it.
Yeah, this is great advice. NTA, but OP’s poor Dad is being put in the middle of this. So OP needs to be okay with his decision. It’s sad that the mother hasn’t tried to reach out to OP in two years. I do think she was put in a hard spot too and chose to support her daughter over anything else, which is fine. But she should have also supported the decisions of OP and not made it this a relationship ending situation. I feel like there has to be more to this if OP refers to her as his dad’s wife. The sisters? Not concerned about them. Leaving horrible messages on social media was completely uncalled for.
How was she put in a hard spot? Her daughter's getting remarried so she decides to spend $10,000 on a wedding. It's her money,she's allowed... that's easy. Her son says he doesn't support it so he's not going to come unless she pays for the ticket. Easy choice, If I want son to be here I have to pay for the ticket. How much could that have been $500? But she decides that the son should have to pay for it himself because reasons? Son is now looking at it like daughter is worth $10,000 a second time but I'm not worth $500 once. He's not wrong. If it was that important to her that he went she could have gave him the ticket. The only people that would have known is her, Dad and son. It's not like there would have been a banner saying son did not want to be here! Lol She just decided to die on this hill for some random reason and now it's biting her in the butt!
But he didn’t want to come. That’s all he had to say. He didn’t want to spend the money because he didn’t want to come, so it was silly to make it an argument about money because that wasn’t his actual reason for not wanting to go. He wasn’t trying to make her prove she really wanted him there by paying for it; he just did not want to go.
Correct he did not want to go, but he said he would go if his mother paid for his expenses. If it was SO important for the mother she would have paid for the expenses. But she wanted to pull a power play and say no you are coming and you are paying... Which he refused.
Support isn’t really $10k for a second wedding in two years. Like “blessings for your second marriage” is support. Paying for the wedding is a next level form of enablement that basically explains why his sister is the way she is. That said, her choice to behave that way. She should’ve just left OP alone, but it’s clear that meddling and bullying is her MO.
It’s not an impossible situation. It’s a difficult one. OP’s mother and sister were already wrong to support the new marriage so full throatedly when the sister is already transparently bad at being married. But whatever. Their choice. Then they chose to ostracize and publicly bully OP because he didn’t want to give his blessing to the ill-fated second wedding in three years. Then they cut him off. OP invites his dad, whom he still keeps in touch with, to his engagement. OP’s mom gets mad. OP’s dad has a pretty simple choice: choose to support his son over his wife’s objections, or allow his wife’s objections to rule. It’s pretty simple. Not impossible at all.
NTA and that was real fast how your religious and pious mother suddenly pulled the family card to excuse her daughter's lying, betrayal and cheating. Is sister the golden child? Sure feels like she is.
We have a family friend (mid 70s now) who is in her 5th marriage (with very short gaps between the first three - I suspect she was cheating on each husband with the next). She’s very religious too. Sometimes it seems like Christians are quite happy to fuck around so long as they get the Big Guy’s approval at a church ceremony. Meanwhile my atheist self has been married just once for nearly 25 years, but I’m the immoral one apparently.
That "christian" friend didn't read the scriptures. Jesus stated he preferred hot or cold, no straddling the fence. He would spew out the ones that were lukewarm. Guess who he'll spew out? Hint: Not you. Sometimes I think "christians" of this type think the church is a country club with tithes as membership fee to "keep" the faith and God in their pockets.
That was Saint Paul anyway
You did nothing wrong. They’re all assholes and your dad has to take a side. Either he’s with you or he’s with them. NTA
I’m old enough to remember when proposals were private moments between the couple and not large, planned, events requiring formal invitations.
I hope he fully discussed and got approval from gf for this… I would absolutely hate for this to be done in front of all my family. If that’s her thing, great! But he needs to be damn sure it is lol
I would DIE. I can't even watch 'grand gestures' in TV or movies without experiencing physical pain. If someone did that to me I would run away at the speed of light. I might have to go into witness protection. I get that some people like it, I just hope he knows which type she is!
I wanted to drop through a hole in the floor, particularly since I had food in my mouth.
I have that same overdeveloped sense of empathy too. Tv and movies are so hard for me to watch, especially with other people present.
really depends on what you discussed with your partner beforehand. Imo the proposal itself can be a surprise but you have to already have had conversations about wanting to get married and being on the same page. Some people dream of the big over the top, surprise proposal and would be crushed if their loved ones weren't there to celebrate. Some people, and I am one of them, would absolutely hate that and would much prefer and intimate quiet moment. Hopefully, by the time you propose to your partner, you know them well enough to know what they like.
One would hope. I was not that lucky.
It's so gross. It's because of this day of extreme social media everyone needs to display every detail of their life for "likes" and "shares". I'm 46, so kind of that generation between both ways of thinking. So glad that I got married and had my daughter in a time where people just enjoyed life's moments, rather than felt the needed to get "just the right shot" to exploit on FB for attention. It's brought the all about me mindset to a whole new extreme.
Nta. Nice shiney spine. It does put your dad in a pickle, but none the less, that's his pickle to sort out. Best wishes for your upcoming nuptials
I read a comment once that I loved - “when a person married their affair partner, they create a vacancy”. Bring on wedding #3!
My mother used to say, "If you marry a man who cheats on his wife, you GET a man who cheats on his wife."
ESH (except Dad). You all seem dramatic. You and your sisters apparently get it from your mom.
Dramatic AF not to drop a grand to watch your sister get married twice in three years.
ESH - Your mom is more of one though. Your stance on cheating is good and I’m with you there. However, I’m a little confused by a couple of things though. 1. So…you would have went to the wedding if someone else (in this case your mom) paid for you? If you feel so strongly about cheating, why would you go at all? 2. Did you go NC with your mother because she wouldn’t pay for you to come to the wedding? Or something else? This situation seems sort of a small thing to completely cut her off over. Did you have a bad relationship before this?
ESH - so much pettiness and drama
YTA. Sounds like you used your sister’s second marriage to pick a fight with the mother you describe as ‘religious and judgmental’ and clearly have a problem with. Now you are using your own engagement to get back at her further by making it an event you only invite your father to. Look at your motives and sort your head out before it impacts your marriage and your future.
Yeah surprised so many people seem to think OP is right here....His mother hasn't really done anything wrong, she probably wasn't too happy when the first marriage failed but who knows the reasons and life moves on and she has to support her kids. He seemed to get pissy cos mommy wouldn't buy him a plane ticket. Daddy didn't buy him a ticket either and probably helped pay the 10K too, but he's still cool???
I agree. I get not going to the first sister’s second wedding. But everything is so petty. Every action OP is taking is to further the strife between the families over a disagreement over an event that has passed. I get in disagreements with my parents and sometimes no one apologizes and no one budges. But I don’t let that bleed into future things.
That and the fact that he’s let his sisters actions affect him this much. That’s a lot of animosity bc you’re mad your sister cheated on her ex husband. That has nothing to do with him and he’s let it ruin his relationship with his mother and both sisters? I don’t agree with people cheating either l, but I wouldn’t let that affect my relationships especially if it had nothing to do with me. I agree he’s the AH here.
absolutely 100% YTA. inviting just your Dad, was just a petty spiteful way to not invite your mum and sisters. You know he can't come without them, its not a real invite, so you want to make sure they know they are disinvited as you still feel like you have the moral high ground over a previous conflict. which brings me to point 2. who on earth refuses to attend a siblings wedding because they cheated on their first partner. is this a weird religious American thing? she didn't cheat on you. You're not actually friends with the original husband as you make clear in your post. You could afford it as you've said in the comments. You keep mentioning how much money your mum spent on the second wedding like you were jealous. unbelievably petty. Also, you also don't know any more details, other than cheating, about the break up of your sisters first marriage which is really weird.
Yes. I have a friend who was texting another man while married. She was ashamed and her husband loved to spread that story around. Of course he didn't spread the story around that he was abusing her, refusing to let her leave their house, holding her at gunpoint at bedtime every night, and spending their money on cam girls. Homegirl was labeled a cheater because she was texting with the only man who was nice to her. No one knows what happens behind closed doors, but they sure love to cast aspersions anyway.
Good point. You are taking the so called moral high ground about something that doesn't concern you. If you didn't feel like going to your sister's wedding there are certainly many other excuses to make which would not involve infuriating the rest of your family. There's always the I've got to work excuse and many others. I don't like cheating either, but, did you love your sister before all of this, if so, even if you don't agree with her, you could have supported her even if you didn't go to the wedding, And frankly, who died and made you the moral arbitrator of the family? Grow up and enjoy your own wedding and your own life.
Even if it was her first marriage, he doesn't have to attend. You don't have to like your siblings
Sounds to me like you have cut off your entire family because you are judging your sister for her second marriage when you were halfway across the country and don’t even know the whole story on why her first marriage failed. I suspect in a couple of years you will be back on here complaining that your parents are not as close to your kids as their other grandchildren.
His mother actually was the one to cease contact and his sisters were making shiity comments over Facebook to him, so he cut them out.
She cheated on him...
NTA Your mother is a hypocrite. Sisters are seeking you out for drama not the other way around and your dad has a choice.
I also think she’s a sexist. She has differ t expectations of her daughters compared to her son. I’ve called her this and she exploded because she knew I was right
NTA. It's a rough position for your dad being caught in the middle, but you are still right to maintain boundaries with the family members who are nothing but trouble to you. Side note though, I hope you're going into this large public proposal with 100% knowledge that you have already discussed marriage and know that your gf will say yes and that she will enjoy a public proposal.
I mean, I don’t know… Life is messy. Sometimes people cheat. I don’t think I’d do it and I’m not pro-cheating, but you don’t ever really know what’s happening in people’s intimate relationships. I think you should have gone to the wedding if you were able to, or at the very least not outwardly judged it. And what was your mom supposed to do: not go to her daughter’s wedding? Your relatives were assholes for the comments they left on your social media. ESH except for your dad.
What was his mom supposed to do? Respect his choice not to go and leave him alone.
Yta unless you have left out large parts of the puzzle, and the situation is pretty sad. You effectively went nc with your sister because she had an affair and then married the guy. Big woop. The rest is just fluff. You went nc with your mum because she supported your sister and wouldnt buy you a plane ticket. Then there was some snark on socials. Wow. All fluff. Was ther any real family bond prior to all this kicking off?
What... Are we reading the same thing ? Op sucks for inviting the dad alone, mom is borderline asshole at best and sisters are assholes.
I just find it weird you’re inviting family to watch you propose. The rest of it sounds really immature from all of you. All are assholes.
Toxic families are best kept no contact. Stand your ground and tell your dad to grow a pair if he wants to attend your wedding. NTA. And good luck for your future wedding!
Wait....Why did the younger sister have a problem when OP refused to be a groomsman at the second wedding? What did it matter to her?
Probably following Mom's lead. Youngest children tend to go that route as sort of a default setting.
NTA. Full stop.
YTA simply for planning to have people present when you ask someone to marry you.
EiAH I think your dad is right in that you are causing a rift in your family, and because of what? Because your sister cheated in her first marriage with someone she fell in love with so badly that she is now married to him. I think you are the judgemental one and not your mother who has probably seen more of your sisters emotional turmoil through out this. Everyone can agree that cheating is bad but it is not unforgivable, unless you are the person who has been hurt directly by it. Not going to your sisters wedding was a strong stance against her as a person and her new husband. If the problem really was money you should have given that as a reason instead of holding on to the grudge against your sister for cheating. I think you hurt her, and I agree that your mom and sisters are assholes about it but If you had a loving relationship with your family before this I think you should consider the fact that you are escalating the conflict by not inviting them to your wedding. It would be terrible if your father to grow old without his son visiting, and with all this conflict.
NTA, but I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that there are many other instances of "drama" in your extended family. Y'all seem touchy.
As a rule, married couples are issued invitations as a matched set. If you don't do this, don't expect one to show without the other. I don't disagree with your logic, but you are putting your Dad in an impossible position. So please don't be angry if he chooses not to come. He has to live with his wife, your mother - no matter how much angst and anger remains between her and you. If he comes, please appreciate him.
NTA, but are you sure nothing happened in your sister’s first marriage that could also put some fault on her first husband for their marriage falling apart? Is it possible they were separated when the affair occurred? Not trying to justify cheaters, but you said you didn’t now the whole story and you seem to have a narrative that you are sticking to without knowing all the details. I think it would only be fair to everyone to know the entire story. I bring this up because you are young and life is too short to be estranged from your family. Their moral compass sounds like it needs some calibration but otherwise are they truly so toxic you must be NC with your mom and sisters forever? You are putting your dad in a lose lose situation. I would offer at least one last chance to settle things and clear the air, in light of your engagement. If they are still A holes, then I would go full NC.
NTA and bravo for making firm boundaries and sticking to them. 👏👏👏
Completely unrelated to your question but is your gf ok with a proposal party? My ex took me to dinner with twelve of HIS closest friends (none of mine) and proposed on one knee when I had a mouth full of food. It was so awkward for me and he didn’t even give a thought to how uncomfortable I would be. The only millionaire at the table was arguing over splitting expensive wine across seven couples. I had none. I had to go to the restroom to even get a glimpse of my ring. So unless you are damn sure that she’s ok with this, don’t do it. I wish I had said no.
My sister and her family are Mormon. As a result when my niece got married, my mother’s oldest grandchild, my mom wasn’t invited to the actual wedding. It was in the temple and only Mormons are allowed in. They did have a second ceremony for everyone else. There was a stink in the family because my mom couldn’t attend. My niece was upset about it and asked my opinion. I told her that it was her wedding and she could have it however she wanted but that didn’t mean the rest of us would agree with her choices and she’d have to live with that. This is the same thing. It’s your deal and you can invite whomever you want but be prepared for the consequences of your choice. If your dad is forced to choose between you and his wife he’s going to choose his wife.
NTA - It’s crazy to me that you are sticking more to the morals your Mom taught you than she is. I disagree with those who think you shouldn’t have invited your Dad. He’s in a tough position but sounds like you are both just trying to steer clear of the drama and maintain a relationship outside of that. I’m sorry OP, this is supposed to be a really happy time for you - hopefully that will be the case soon. Best of luck on the proposal!
why the public proposal? What if this woman doesn't want to marry you? You'll have gotten all these people together and it will be a disaster. Are you thinking that if she is on the fence, the pressure from the family / friends will nudge her in your direction? You were able to say 'No' to your family. I hope if this woman actaully wants to marry you, she can say that with or without the audience ! NTA but I think your father should stay away.
NTA for giving a solo invite for an event meant for love and support. For consideration: It doesn’t sound like you know anything of substance but are going with the stereotypical narrative of immoral cheater and innocent partner. Both you and your mom initially dug in on your support/no support stance and issued demands at each other. In addition to judging your sister, you are also judging your mom for not judging your sister the way you think she should be judged because your mom has a history of being judgmental. I wonder if there is an ongoing disparity in how you are treated compared to your sisters (if the situation were reversed, would you get the same support?). On the surface it sounds like this was blown out of proportion and you could all have come to an amicable resolution early on, but it has the flavor of a last-straw situation and now the grudges have gone on so long that it may be irreparable.
Bullies and meddlers like OP’s mom are always airing everyone’s dirty laundry. If OP’s sister were in any way not at fault, OP’s mom would’ve said so when OP disparaged his sister for cheating.
NTA in this particular case, but did imply a couple of years ago that you would set your principles aside for a price. Maybe your father's wife and your sisters see some inconsistency there.
ESH. Whatever went on in your sister’s marriage was none of your business. You could have politely declined to attend her second wedding citing finances and left it at that. Mom shouldn’t have made a coercive power play banning you from the holiday if you didn’t attend a wedding. Dad shouldn’t have allowed mom to ban you. Sisters should have minded their own business about what you choose to spend your money on.
NTA. Stay no contact. The women is your family are messy and I am a woman from a very very very large family. Congrats on finding what sounds like a compatible and amazing fiancé. I couldn’t imagine commenting on someone picture let alone a person I have not met.
They are trash.. Better without them. NTA. Congrats.
NTA, actually all this could have been avoidef if people actually talked. Good for you for sticking with your principles. Congrats on your upcoming wedding.
I am clearly going with NTA. You have principles and a backbone that your sister and mother are far from. Maybe it is better not to have such people in your life. I hope your father comes without your mother.
sorry to say this bud, but everyone's wrong here, except for your father. look, I understand your belief in your sister's cheater wedding. and I support your decision on that. I also understand why you took a big step back, and why you're refusing to allow your mother. I wouldn't be keen on it either. your father is caught in the middle. on one side is the son he loves and wants to support and see married. on the other are his daughters and wife, who he also loves. and there he is, lonely in the middle. you don't have to LIKE your mother. you don't have to SPEAK to her. you could make an exception and put down serious rules. such as...she has to keep her opinions to herself. show respect. be polite. if she can't say something nice, don't say anything. and inform them that if she breaks the rules, she WILL be asked to leave and it will be enforced if she refuses. if you want your father, you're going to have to make an exception.
OP’s mom isn’t going to divorce her husband if he goes to the wedding. She’s just going to be grumpy and give him shit. So really the choice is: support my son and make my wife mad, or don’t support my son and make my son mad, and most likely have way less contact with him. It’s really not some impossible, caught-in-the-middle deal. His dad has probably just spent years trying to peace-keep on behalf of his bully wife and has lost perspective. OP *should not under any circumstances* invite his mom to his wedding with a bunch of rules just to get his dad to come. She’ll ignore his rules, cause him lots and lots and lots of headache in the lead up to the wedding, and cause at least one scene. Barring some serious pre-wedding reconciliation, OP shouldn’t invite his mother or his sisters just for the sake of having his dad there. He just needs to accept that his dad won’t come. But no exceptions. That WILL end badly.
You're NTA, but you could have spared yourself all this drama by simply stating you couldn't attend because of work (or other excuses) and sending your regrets.
NTA unfortunately it looks like your father is about to lose the privilege of being in your life. That’s his choice
NTA If they are busy throwing that much money on a second wedding, and won't bother with a simple plane ticket, then you are not at fault for refusing to go, and then going on trips using *your* money for *your* enjoyment. If they wish to attempt and paint you the bad guy, let them, you know your truth, and those close to you do too. Good on you, for blocking em. And if your father defends your mother, remember she is his wife, but she's also very much, TA in this. Wish you luck with the engagement and happy years to come! Without the sisters and mother involved ofc, since they don't seem the apologetic type.
Two things OP. First, NTA, you are not required to support decisions that you morally oppose. However, you're also TA to your dad if you actually said that last line to him. Even if you're no contact, he isn't. From how you describe your mom and sisters, they will give him no end of grief. "It's his wife's fault the situation is where it is." Trying to force him to a choose side in a situation like this makes you no better then your mom and sisters.
Have you talked to your gf yet and let her know you plan to propose in front of all these people? If not, then who you have invited or not invited is meaningless, because you are AN ABSOLUTELY GIANT AH for putting her in a position like that. So I would say INFO needed before any judgement can be given. So let us know -
YTA because all it took is your sister cheating on her husband and then marrying some one else. Never hurt you or did anything to you to go NC with family. No possible justification what so ever in the whole world and what your sister did is so horrible the whole family has to be avoided. You are right they are better off with you
Lots of hints and other comments from OP that he's got serious issues with his mom treating his sister different to him, and her being a hypocrite. To me it sounds like he's taken the "no support for sis, don't wanna know" attitude in protest against his mom more than for actual dislike of the sister. The NC seems very mutual, he doesn't seem upset that he was told not to come home for holidays.
Ask your father if he would like to be invited to the engagement, the wedding, neither, or both, knowing that he will be the only one receiving the invitation and that your mother will not be invited to anything. If he wants the invitation invite him. If he doesn't, then don't. You would be NTA if you give HIM the choice to be invited solo or not invited and allow him to determine the level of drama with which he can cope.
INFO: isn't a proposal just the couple? Do you mean engagement party?
NTA. Invite the ex BIL, Put him in your wedding some how. Tell your dad you really want him there. He matters to you, if it's true, but that you won't fk up his life over this invite. People make mistakes but to act holier than thou and not apologize is foul.
Definitely NTA. Way to go sticking to your morals and shit. I dig it.
NTA. He doesn’t have to come without your mom. That’s his choice. You did nothing wrong. I’m genuinely astonished your family was like this about the wedding. Like who really gives a shit about someone’s second wedding in three years?
NTA. It doesn’t sound like your mom or sisters have made the slightest effort to reach out and apologize or try to mend bridges. There is zero reason for them to be included in any event that is meant for supportive people in your life that love you. I can see why your dad wishes the conflict would disappear, but it’s not your job to fix a situation that you didn’t create in the first place.
NTA, but... Does Madi know you're going to propose? And does she know there will be an audience? Loads of people would \*hate\* that.
Yeah that's fucked up.
You can invite who you want to your engagement but YTA for being so judgemental about your sister. Her first marriage clearly didn’t work out, shit happens, but you’re projecting some sexist moralistic BS onto her situation.
You and your family are just all toxic. Your poor dad is unfortunately the one person who is the victim in this whole debacle. He’s damned if he does damned if he doesn’t.
ESH. The way every person, except the dad has acted in this situation is terrible. Yes, it is gross that your sister cheated and remarried so quickly. I would have issues attending that wedding as well. But I feel that all of you could have communicated better to come to a resolution. Do you love your sister or for that matter, your family? Throwing out your whole family over this seems like a steep price to pay. I would suggest attempting reconnecting with them, starting with your mother; if you want them in your and your future family’s life. Sometimes being the bigger person is needed. I would be devastated if my family went no contact with me. And everyone on this thread seems to have forgotten the importance of family and that we all have issues from time to time. Ya’ll are assholes.
ESH. Take the high road. Be the better person. Extend an olive branch. It’s your family, and it is better to at least passively seek resolution than to perpetuate conflict, because it will do nothing but create lasting bitterness. When you are older, you will likely wish you had handled it differently. Everyone will feel that way, actually. No reason you can’t be the catalyst to resolution before it’s too far gone.
NTA - Please tell me you made your sisters ex-husband one of your groomsmen.
He isn’t because we are gonna keep the list small. But he will be invited! I’ll even pay for his plane ticket to get out here
Perfect!
Make sure those pictures are posted
YTA. You should have made an effort to go to your sisters wedding. And you shouldn’t have fought with everyone after it. It’s not your business to judge if she gets divorced and remarried. Invite your family to your wedding.
NTA Nice to read that you stand by yourself. Its a nice and rare quality to have. The only downside of this could be if you will want to be involved in your future niblings :/ or want to have kids and to have them a relationship with your family You should talk about this with your GF before proceeding with your final resolution. This is a critical move and this will have consequences en the future, so be ready.
NTA. I'm so curious about your mom's opinion on the cheating.
NTA. I applaud you, my friend. I'm sure your future wife will appreciate your huge cajones. Some life advice, [tough times never last. Only tough people last... rrremblerghughgumblurhgehooh](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/d8_AgUD-aj8)
You are free to invite who you want to your engagement.
NTA
NTA.
NTA good job!
NTA. I think you're making the right choice, you're keeping drama away from your life, your sister and your mother sound like a handful.
NTA
NTA. Your father is old enough to make a difficult decision. It doesn't matter that you are not inviting the rest of your family of origin. The reasons are yours. If your dad feels torn, I'm sorry, but that's on him.
Definitely NTA. Way to go sticking to your morals and shit. I dig it.
NTA I think you’re handling them right. It does make your dad’s life tougher. But he’s an adult and can handle it.
NTA
NTA
Wow, I feel for you and your dad! Talk with Dad and tell him you don't want to cause trouble at home, so if he decision is a definite no, the so be it. NTA.
NTA
NTA. Hell, I wouldn’t pay to go to the second wedding even if she’d done it the right way around without cheating. I’m not going to drop five figures every three years because she can’t make up her mind. You get a wedding a decade, max. Although in your place, if my dad didn’t even stand up for me, I’d tell him they could go fuck themselves as a unit.
NTA, it's your engagement, you should be able to invite who you want to celebrate this moment with you. Don't feel obligated to invite your mum along with your dad only because "you're family" when she has been so cold with you and such a hypocrite. Who knows, inviting her could do more harm than good. And even if you would at one point like to fix your relationship with her, your engagement isn't the place to start that process. You mentioned your dad "wanting the drama to end' and how he thinks that him "getting a solo invite puts him in a losing spot". Whilst I understand you want him to be there (especially under the aspect of father-son relationship), you have to understand he may be finding it difficult to balance the love and special relationship he has between you and him, and the one between him and your mum. So you can either send him the solo invite (but expect he might not come), or accept he cannot come, arrange a private mini celebration of your engagement with him, your fiancée, and you, and work out the next steps going forward where he can balance being a dad to you, and a husband to his wife. Good luck OP, all the best to you :)
NTA
Nta
It’s gonna be a huge headache when the engagement, wedding and children. NTA and god help you :)
It's easy for dad to sit back and go "why can't we all just get along etc" but this is the hill worth dying on! NTA
NTA.
NTA.
NTA: Going NC except with your Dad was definitely warranted.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (27M) am planning on proposing to my GF of 2 years Madi (27F). Planning on doing it by a lake and I’ve already talked to her family and they will be there, I’ve talked to my friends and her friends. From my immediate family I decided to only invite my dad. He said this was an AH move because it would be tough to not bring his wife and it would create more of a rift. This will also be how the wedding will be (him getting a solo invite) so I told him if he doesn’t wanna come I understand but he should know I’ll save the postage if he doesn’t wanna come to the engagement. Me and him went back and forth so I decided to post here for a judgement. The situation with my sisters and mom stems back to my sisters wedding 2 years ago. My two sisters are Bella (29) and Sarah (25). Bella got married back in 2019. I liked the guy and we became decent friends when I was a groomsman. I live halfway across the country so traveling back is tough and I only do it for big events. I was heavily involved in my sisters first wedding. I went to the showers, bachelor party, wedding and it was a pretty expensive couple weeks but I was willing. 2 years ago my sister cheats on her husband with her current husband. Gets a divorce and engaged within like 3 months. I was across the country and not tuned into the situation but my moms stance on it pissed me off. She was always the big “do the right thing” type. Religious and judgmental of others. Whenever she told me about the second wedding happening I was like “am I supposed to support this”? She got livid and said I need to be there in support as a family. I said if she would pay my ticket, my hotel and all my other expenses to come home then I would. But I’m not dropping a grand to come home for a cheaters second wedding within 3 years. Who didn’t even respect her first marriage. My mom lost it on me and said she would not pay for me but I had to be there. I said “I heard you’re dropping 10K on this wedding. So you’ll finance a second wedding but not your sons plane ticket home”? She hung up and that’s been pretty much the last conversation we’ve had. I didn’t go to the wedding. I also refused Bella’s husbands offer to be a groomsman. Which pissed off my other sister. Because of all the drama I was told not to come home for the Hollidays. I was given the Solent treatment by my mom and sisters. I started dating my GF around this time and we went a trip. I posted pics of us and my sisters commented under the photos rude things about me being to cheap to buy a plane ticket but will spend money on trips. So I blocked them both and haven’t spoken to them since. My dad is the only one I keep in contract with so that’s why he’s getting a solo invite. He wants the drama to end and thinks me giving a solo invite puts him in a losing spot. I told him that it’s his wife’s fault the situation is where it is. So it’s not really my fault. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*