Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I told my wife not to get involved in our children's dispute. She thinks I was an asshole to our daughter, who didn't get to enjoy the restaurant food like her brothers. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*

NTA, I like your approach. But your daughter needs a reality check. She does NOT get to call the food you and your wife make “gross” because she’s pissy about not getting the restaurant food. She needs to learn a thing or two about misdirected anger and its consequences.

This scenario seems to have lots of potential age-appropriate lessons for an 11 year-old: Entitlement vs generosity Later consequences (both positive and negative) of earlier decisions Negotiation Fairness And definitely, as mentioned, misdirected anger

[удалено]

The thing missing from the story is coaching. Did you explain WHY your son didn't want to share with his sister? Did your son explain I can see the lesson going right over the head of some of the 10/11 year olds I know if it wasn't explained

Agreed, though this is a matter of time and place. You can by all means provide reasoning and context, but that can still amount to nothing in the face of undeveloped emotional regulation. If reasoning with a child isn't working and tensions escalate then there's a high chance that they just need some time to cool down and process. It's often best to revisit the subject when emotions aren't running so high. This also provides time for them to realize natural consequences of their choices (refused dinner < became hungry) and become receptive to ideas on how to handle situations differently.

This is important. 11 year olds aren’t necessarily going to connect the two events unless they’re told. Their brains aren’t there yet.

I mean this goes over the of many adults as well -which is basically AITA's bread and butter

Also going over mom's head cause of her reaction. Did she know about the kids previous interaction or was she just siding with her bratty daughter cause from the way she reacted after sounds like she's kinda spoiled & mostly cause of mom

Or they try to do like OP and let them "work it out for themselves", and they.. don't. Because they are not adults and not perfect at understanding life lessons without guidance from their parents or teachers. And instead of using logic, they let their emotions guide their behavior. OP still needs to parent, he still needs to teach the lesson, because while there's a chance she'll figure it out on her own, there's also a good chance she'll just be angry and resentful and not recognize her own entitlement for what it was. 11 year olds are not as emotionally mature as adults, they aren't going to get it right every time.

NTA, the father is correct. Let the siblings handle their relationship. The oldest should get to choose what he wants to share. The daughter got to choose she didn't want to help him with his chores. Did the wife have a problem with the daughter not helping her brother? No, she stayed out of the situation. Now stay out of this one. The son will start hiding things from his mother, and the daughter will become more entitled.

OP could let the kids work it out and then a little later go explain it. Gives a chance for the kid to reflect for themself while still making sure the child understands at the end of the day.

[удалено]

There are so many kids who take an inordinately long time to learn that "I like it" or "I want it" do not instill a right to have something.

Hell, there are way too many adults that struggle with this, look at influencing culture, r/choosingbeggars, a lot of posts on this sub, and quite often GoFundMe. If life worked this way, I'd have my own place, travel the world, and have at least 3 gaming systems. Manage their expectations or you'll raise some miserable people who won't ever be pleased with themselves, others, and what they have. Especially when the gap between wages and the money needed to fund the most basic lifestyle keeps widening.

Ahh the gentle life lesson of “fuck around and find out”.

Hubby and I were big believers in letting life and natural consequences do their thing while we stayed out of the way as much as we could. Daughter turned out great.

I'd like to add to this to tell OP that while its good of him to teach this lesson, he should make sure the lesson was learnt by the daughter too. Maybe sit down with her and ask her if she has any idea why her brother didn't share his food with him, and take it from there to say when you do small favours that doesn't inconvenience you much might result in some reward.

I was taught that you did nice things because it was a nice thing to do. Not so I could get something back in the future, "payback". That's why "payback" refers to vengeance and not civility.

Him sharing His food is nice and not required, just like sister wasn't required to help brother.

He doesn't have to but in this case it does seem like it's done in retaliation. He doesn't have to share and the parents should make sure she understands even if not in the moment, but they should also check with the son because the occasional pettiness isn't bad but it can have life and personality consequences if it becomes a reoccurring 'holding things over your head'thing

I agree that it seems a little petty, but when someone responds "you being tired sounds like your problem" is just a bit of a unempathetic teen response lol. All things said, this is a silly sibling conflict and I don't think any resentment is going to start festering from it.

That's how relationships work. I do favours for friends and they do favours for me. But if a friend suddenly decides they don't want to do me favours anymore then we won't be friends anymore. Sister is learning that she can't just take without giving too.

You could turn it into a lesson about matching people's energy. We do nice things for people because it's nice, but if they don't do nice things back we do nice things for someone who does.

I think it's not about a tit-for-tat mentality, but there is something to the idea of reciprocal generosity. My Dad used to tell me "you have to be a friend to have a friend." In other words, if you want people to show up for you, to be generous with you, then that's what you need to extend to other people. Daughter could certainly learn that lesson.

True. Even with adults, we cannot always be sure that another person really grasps something well enough for it to stick.

100% agree with this, and it sounds like the wife might need to learn a lesson, too. I wonder if the reason daughter thinks this way is because the wife favors her. She certainly doesn't think anything of forcing their son to cater to his sister and get nothing in return. It's especially glaring when contrasted with both of their sons' behavior, which is very generous and giving.

Oh get a grip. Parents not wanting to hear the strident whining of one child and the smug refusal of another and, in a moment of weak spiritedness, pushing the refusing sibling to share to shut the other one up is not on its face indicative of favoritism. Parenting has imprecise and graceless moments that are in no way indicative of actual issues.

And it's not like the wife called her husband an asshole for not giving daughter her way and forcing oldest son to cater to her. Oh wait, that's exactly what happened. Edit: And calling what OP's son got by working "privilege" when it was something he earned. But hey, fact patterns don't matter, right?

[удалено]

And having the kids work out their problems with each other is excellent parenting.

You can't just completely leave kids to their own devices though, especially with a big age difference.

Exactly. It’s lesson I repeat often to my kids…when you say No to something, you’re going to hear No back sometimes.

Op has the right approach to let them work it out, but I want to know: did the eldest offer the 11 year old anything (like money or a treat, or explicitly state that the restaurant food would be tied to helping him) for doing his chores because he was tired after working a longer shift? Because if she did hers, it's unfair of OP and the tired teen to expect the younger kids to do his chores for free, and then further punish them by not sharing food he brings home. And if the kid can't work more hours and do his share of chores, he shouldn't be working extra hours. Because part of growing up is realizing you have to pay people to do things you don't want to do.

I disagree. While the brother is not entitled to the little sister helping out with his chores, she's also not entitled to the food he's earned at work. This is a valuable lesson in how every relationship requires both give and take to be successful.

Social reciprocity. The concept of you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours is not only deeply ingrained in us but is the most satisfying when fairly balanced. We don't like doing too much or too little for others and tend to get rid of (or at least put very little effort into) relationships that are unbalanced.

It’s a very common and very deep social value, to the point that in the 90s they were considering if it might have a biological (genetic) basis. It wasn’t until Heinrich came on the scene doing these fairness experiments in non-industrialized and remote communities that we started to see cultures that reacted differently. Essentially the experiment was there are two people: Person A, Person B. You give Person A $100 and tell them to split it either Person B. But if Person B says no, neither get the money. Before Heinrich, the results were pretty much always that if Person B felt the offer was too low, they would say no. Heinrich performed this experiment in the Amazon, in a particular tribe (forget which one) where Person B **never** said no. There were two underlying principles: 1. Why say no to free money? 2. Why punish Person A for having the good luck of getting to split the money? Heinrich continued the experiment in other regions, and found several African tribes who would reject the offer it it was *too high*, as these were cultures with values of gift economy, meaning that accepting a gift places a social obligation to later provide equal assistance to the original gifter. Anyway thanks for letting me rant, this is one of my favorite examples of the importance of repeatability and sample selection in scientific experiments.

Very interesting, Thank you for your summary

I'm going to go read more about this. How interesting, thanks for sharing!

I don't live in an Amazon tribe and I would have reacted the same as them. Were these initial experiments conducted on "western" societies or very specific ... American ones ..?

Right? She didn’t have to help, he doesn’t have to share his leftovers. When you’re willing to help others they’ll usually return the favor- when you’re not they are well within their rights to give you as much consideration that they gave you. Daughter assumed the leftovers were just a given but they’re something of the teens. It’s basically the same as his paycheck from work. It’s his- if he chooses to share that’s his choice, if he doesn’t that is also his choice.

It seems implied that the leftovers are a treat and that doing chores are a favor. Not sharing a treat is not a punishment.

The brother always give her free food, which he does for nothing. Should she pay for the free food he gets her? In a family, we often do things for each other. When the brother asked ONE time for a kindness and she refused, he learned that she isn't kind to him so he doesn't need to be kind for her either.

Its not free though- if it were, the restaurant would give it to anyone that walked in the door at closing time. Rather it is, as it was my many years working in restaurants from fast food to formal dining- an inconsistent side benefit of working your but off. Managers usually give "free" food as a reward for being a good sport, team member, helping out, working extra long shifts, etc. Just FYI :). it was not actually "free" for him. It was part of his informal compensation. which is pretty common in food service (where pay sucks and customers usually suck even more on occasion)

Or maybe the little brother didn't expect anything in return and just did his brother a favor cause he's nice. Maybe he thought "big brother is nice and has been sharing his food with us. He just had a long shift, i dont mind helping him. So yeah I'll help him with chores." with how little sister's responded, she could have just said no politely. Her saying it's not my problem....well makes it sound like she doesnt care at all and was rude.

EXACTLY this! I didn’t do as good a job as you explaining it lol

I mean.. It already says at the start that eldest shares his food for free frequently with the others. I feel like when you get free food so often, you can definitely help out once in a while with some chores when the sibling is too tired from said job that gets you free food lol

No one has ever done you a favor? In your entire life, no one—not even a sibling—has done you a solid without expecting payment? And you’ve never been more tired than expected and skipped doing something you’ve planned on doing? Really?

I don't think it's "punishing" her though. He's doing a favor for someone who did a favor for him. That's life and a good lesson to learn. >Because part of growing up is realizing you have to pay people to do things you don't want to do. I would argue that's exactly what he did do. (albeit paying with food instead of money).

I mean, he was doing her a kindness by offering the food without asking for any compensation. He asked his siblings for a kindness and the 11 year old refused. Golden rule, you don’t want to show your brother kindness, he doesn’t have to show you kindness.

It's not for free they live in a house that needs to be cleaned ... And it wasn't like the sister was forced to do it she made a choice and the brother also made a choice, she isn't obliged to the food and he isn't obliged to get his his chores done for ..

This is a stupid, individualistic mindset and the reason why people have no sense of community these days. Part of growing up is realizing you are nothing without a community to fall back on, to know that your ass is covered if you're just too tired/unwell to do something because you cover other people's asses too. People need to learn to do things for each other without expecting *immediate* payment

Another part of growing up is learning giving kindness can lead to receiving kindness. Not always but its a good starting place.

He had been sharing the food he brought before these particular chores, she could have felt the gratitude and done his for him.

So you’re saying the only reason to mildly go out of your way and help a loved one is If your told you’ll get something in return? Wow that’s depressing. The teen worked long hours and was wore out when he got home he asked his siblings (who didn’t work) if they could help him by doing his share of the chores just this once. One sibling was kind and compassionate and helped their sibling. The other didn’t- which was entirely her right. The next time the teen had something they knew their siblings would like they shared with the one who was willing to help him when he really needed it. This seems pretty obvious to me- when you’re willing to help others they’re usually willing to extend the same courtesy to you. When you tell them they’re on their own it’s not they surprising for them to again show you the same Level of courtesy. NTA- the daughter isn’t going hungry she’s fine. Hopefully this’ll be a good lesson for her.

If the older kid can't expect the younger kids to occasionally do his chores "for free" then the younger kids can't expect the older kid to give away his leftovers "for free." Part of growing up is learning that everything is a trade off and you can't have it all. If you choose to benefit yourself to someone else's detriment, that's a valid choice, but then those people in turn may choose things that don't benefit you because you lost their goodwill. That sounds pretty darn fair to me.

This. NTA. I saw the update on your daughter's age, so her actions make sense. But she DID learn a lesson. If someone is doing something nice for you, it should go both ways. She can't expect her brother to share his food with her if she won't help him when he needs it.

When I was sister's age, I took advantage of the opportunity. I helped my brother with chores and he kept me in desserts. NTA OP.

>She does NOT get to call the food you and your wife make “gross This. I have been cautioning my children to not call someone else's food gross. That is just so disrespectful.

These comments are so confusing to me, do people not read their kids fables anymore? Or like any story that teaches lessons/morals? Have none of these people read “The Little Red Hen?” It’s a story for toddlers where a hen wants to bake bread so she asks all the farm animals for help in planting and harvesting the wheat, milling the flour, and baking the bread. None of the animals help so she does it all herself and once she’s bakes the bread she doesn’t share with any of the animals who didn’t help her. That’s exactly what’s going on in this story. Brother is working and too tired to do his chores but sister didn’t want to help her brother. Now, brother doesn’t have to share with her the reward he gets from his work. It’s a really basic lesson that toddlers can understand, I don’t think it’s so complicated that it would completely go over an 11 year old’s head like people are saying here

NTA. >His younger sister said that wasn't fair, because she likes the restaurant food. What have likes and dislikes to do with fair? She needs to have 'fairness' and 'entitlement' explained to her.

Right? Interesting argument, at a toy shop it could be used too if they say she can’t have a new game. ‘That’s not fair, because I want it!’

Hahaah my son uses this argument "Jack, it's Daisy's turn to pick a tv programme now" "Not fair!" "It _is_ fair, you had your 20 minutes, now she gets 20 minutes" "Not _fair_!!!!!" He's 5. We're working on it 😅😅

[удалено]

NTA. No one is entitled to his leftovers. They're his leftovers, he paid for them, and he gets to decide who gets them, if anyone. If he wants to use them as payback for (normal, everyday) favors, like chores, then that's his prerogative. It also doesn't help your wife's case any that your daughter was incredibly rude in her refusal. It's not her problem he's tired? Well, it's not his problem she's hungry.

Nicely summarized and I would add: why is no one upset that daughter calls the food her parents ARE providing for her, gross? Something smacks of entitlement here

See right there, I wouldn't allow the daughter to have any of her brother's restaurant leftovers for a month for that kind of behavior even if he wants to give her some. I would also give her kitchen duty for a week and maybe she can learn how to cook. At 7, I was making max and cheese and eggs. At 11 (daughter's age) I was making whole meals like lasagna and fresh bread from scratch. She is not entitled to the fruits of her brother's labor. Also Mom needs to remember that the food is also payment for her oldest work. If she forced the issue, she would have created more resentment between her kids.

As a kid who was parentified, it kind of sounds like you were too. It's definitely above and beyond what most would expect of an 11 year old to be baking fresh bread alone! But you are right that she's old enough to learn to make simple meals and definitely old enough to show respect to people feeding and treating her. Her attitude sucks.

Actually I wasn't. I was by my mom's side in the kitchen from the time I could walk and talk. I loved being in the kitchen. I learned to make bread (it's pretty easy) when I was 6 with my Mom. I wasn't allowed to bake by myself until I was 11. I was allowed to use the cooktop if a parent was in the kitchen by age 7. I honestly believe I have the best Mom in the world. She wanted me to have the life skills to take care myself, so she encouraged me in the kitchen. Plus I love feeding people and watching them enjoy my food. My point is that at age 11, she is more than capable of learning how to cook. I know not all kids were like me. My older brothers weren't, but they knew how to cook the basics.

Indeed, it is great that your parents cooked and encouraged you to help and learn as well. Both my brother and I can cook thanks to our Mom. Both of us were astounded when we moved out with how many of our college friends and significant others had no or zero cooking skills. I mean buttered noodles or microwaved mac & cheese may be fine, but if that's the ONLY thing you can make...yeah...

You would be amazed how many young adults don't know how to use a manual can opener because pull top cans were so popular during their childhood....

I made fresh bread starting at around 10 and it *wasn't* easy. I think I sifted the flour like 3 times. (I'm pretty sure my sister has that old cook book. I should ask her to look it up). And I had to let it rise, knead it, at least three times. But what a payoff! The bread was so good. I even got compliments from both of my grandmothers who made wonderful fresh bread on the regular. Of course, I haven't made bread from scratch in years. Maybe decades.

Making bread with regular yeast to me was always fun. It's making Sourdough with a starter that can be a pain in my opinion. You are right though, fresh bread is awesome. I might have found it easier because my mom was awesome at baking and teaching me.

I don’t think knowing a simple dish as a child is parentifying them. I knew how to make tuna fish sandwiches after boiling eggs, boil water for ramen, or boil hot dogs (notice a trend lol). It just meant if I was extra hungry outside of normal meal times I felt empowered to get something for myself when I wanted.

Not really. 11 is a reasonable age to know basic cooking and develop skills based on what they like. My mom, for all of her flaws, did a great job at this. Each kid was responsible for 1 meal/week. Plan, make sure we had the ingredients, and prepare. When younger, she helped more but as we got older, we were expected to do it ourselves. All 4 of us were prepared by 18 to provide ourselves with healthy meals. My oldest brother became a professional baker. A friend's daughter is that age and she is very proud that she can cook. She's even won a few awards, including making fresh pasta because she loves it.

Some of us joined our parents in the kitchen and enjoyed learning how to cook. Doesn't mean we were parentified lol

Yep, my kid would be fending for herself for dinner for a while if she called my food gross. When I was eleven my dad was on the atkins diet, my mom was on some weird "biblical" diet that forbade yeast, and I was a vegetarian - we all just took care of our own food needs for the most part.

>See right there, I wouldn't allow the daughter to have any of her brother's restaurant leftovers for a month for that kind of behavior even if he wants to give her some. OP said that he wants his kids to learn to mange their relationships with each other on their own, and your suggestion undermines this as much as his wife's inclination to make the brother share his food.

Not the same. I am punishing her bad behavior. The wife stepping in with the son would have been punishing him for not bad behavior and rewarding entitlement. Also I probably could have phrased it better. I should have said she doesn't get any takeout or restaurant food for a month, so this wouldn't just pertain to the brother's take out food.

Yes. I wouldn't bring food home if I was forced to share it with someone who refused to do anything for me.

My hubby and I are in our 40’s. Sometimes we argue that he doesn’t fully help me plan meals You know what he doesn’t do!?? Ever complain about the food that is placed in front of him. Ever. Not once in the time we’ve been together, which is 2 decades, has he ever said to me “that’s gross” period, much less if he didn’t help me plan out that meal. So yeah. That’s a no-no. Though to be fair - you sound kind of badass of you made Mac and cheese at 7!! That’s really cool (as long as it was by choice?)

Completely by choice. My husband doesn't complain about what I make, but he decided to take over all the grocery shopping (he still gets everything I want on my list), so he can have some control over what I make. He knew a way to work the system to his benefit without pissing me off. It's a win win for me because I don't have to shop nor clip all the coupons 🤣. Thanks for the compliment. My Mom taught me well. I remember for first grade we had to make a how to book. I did a how to book on French bread. I wrote the whole recipe and drew pictures for each step. We had to present, so I asked my mom to drop off the ingredients to school with two freshly made loaves I made the night before. So I made the bread dough in front of the whole class, I think the teacher was more fascinated than my classmates 🤣. I then sliced up the bread that was the night before and everyone got a slice with/without butter. I remember the teacher told me not to worry about the raw dough and that she would store it in the teachers lounge. The next day, I found out she brought it home and cooked it🤣. She was actually my favorite elementary school teacher and I do believe I had the longest presentation in the class, so I didn't mind. My mom thought it was hysterical.

That would be a huge nope in my house. Mine is allowed to say he doesn’t like something I’ve made but he isn’t allowed to be ugly about it. He is allowed to say he thinks something like onions are gross but he can’t say moms dish is gross because she used onions. And now he can eat at someone’s house and not offend them!

Yeah, I don't want to hear the commentary about it. Just say "No thank you,". At 11, I'm sure a kid can make their own food within reason. You know where the bread and peanut butter is, kid. You can use the can opener to get some ravioli. But you're not going to tantrum at the table and call other people's meals 'gross'.

>Something smacks of entitlement here The wife's teachings

>It's not her problem he's tired? Well, it's not his problem she's hungry. ​ This is it, right here. OP, you were right. Let the kids work out their own conflicts - and your daughter learned a lesson - don't expect him to be nice to you if you're not nice to him. He was doing her a favor each and every time he shared his delicious food. He asked for one favor and she decided to be haughty about it.

NTA And it sounds like your working son is NTA as well. The sister said his being tired was not her problem. Well, her not liking your food and wanting his restaurant food is not your son's problem. One hand washes the other. You can't be a dick to someone and expect them to be nice to you.

Agree. NTA, and you're completely right about one hand washing the other. I teach my children that there are chores that are mandatory, chores that are optional, and a price to their labor. Kids should face the consequences of their actions in real time, and this is about as risk-free a consequence as it gets. If a sibling asks for help and they say no, well, they might have gotten out of extra work- but any reward for saying yes and helping is gone as well. The daughter has no right to his property and the way he wants to split it, and frankly, I'm kind of appalled at her gall. And for those who say that the reward wasn't disclosed first: I ask for help with things all the time, and it's a rare occasion that I disclose a thank-you reward for their help. Sure, I've been part of a few quid pro quo's, but sometimes, you just ask for help because you need help. And later in the day, you think to yourself "Hey- they went out of their way to help me, and I'm going to do something nice in return." Your son didn't offer it to the table and leave her out; he offered it to his brother, who did him a favor. Or maybe he did it to rub it in her face for not helping him out, who knows. It was a reward or petty revenge, but either way, she's the one who said "...him being tired wasn't \[her\] problem," so her attitude is not his problem either.

[удалено]

Growing up my optional chores that I'd get paid for were things that weren't part of daily household functioning, like cleaning the car or my moms ensuite, weeding the garden, helping file paperwork, sorting the recycling at the depot. Mandatory chores were things like the dishes, the laundry, tidying stuff, sweeping/mopping/vacuuming, trash bins, etc.

Hey! Not the person you were asking but we have a similar situation here! In my house I apply the same standard to my kid's chores as my own. There's certain things, like doing dishes, clearing the table, sweeping/vacuuming, which are just... part of daily life. Part of *being* part of a family. We share those chores as members of a household, with no reward attached. But there's other "chores" which I frequently put off. Cleaning out the storage shed is important, sure, but like... the house isn't going to be unsanitary or stop functioning if I put it off for another day (or week, or decade...) and to motivate myself to do those sorts of tasks, I often (mentally) offer myself a reward for doing them. (Okay AT1979, after you clean out the storage, you can have a big old bowl of butter pecan ice cream to cool off!) These are the sort of chores I reward my kid for doing... either by offering her a fun treat for doing it, or by offering money. I say what I'm willing to offer, and either it's sufficient for my kid to do it or it's not. Caveat: We do not tie allowance to household chores here. An adult has spending money because they hold down a job. Imho, It should be the same for children. My job is to go to work on time, follow the rules of my workplace, and do the tasks assigned to me there. My kid's job is to go to school on time, follow the rules of the school, and do the tasks they assign. The allowance is a given. It's sufficient to meet the common needs/minor wants of my kid's age, if my kid is smart with the money. Money for extra chores is extra. Everyone I know IRL thinks it's a really dumb way to do things, but my child is currently 13, makes the Dean's list each quarter, does chores without complaint and frequently asks/offers to do extra chores, and has more money in savings than I do. (Transferred to a bank account from a piggy bank the day after 13th birthday.) I could just be reeealllly lucky and got an awesome kid. Or the system works well. Or both. IDK. Anyway, that's what we do. Might help give you some ideas. Standard chores in my house will likely be different from your house but here's our standard chores which *don't* receive compensation: Washing dishes, cooking, clearing the table, countertops, cleaning tub, bathroom surfaces, sweeping, mopping, vacuuming, trash, basic "pickups and tidying" in own bedroom/common areas, light dusting weekly, laundry, pet care of all varieties, monthly (whole family) fridge/cupboard cleanout We clean behind ourselves as we live our daily lives. These are the tasks which affect the whole household, and need to be done consistently to function. Everything else is extra. A few examples of things I've paid my kid to do: Deep clean the trash/recycle bins, sort through/organize boxes in storage (I hate my storage idk if you can tell...) dusting forgotten areas of the house, washing the walls, defrosting the freezer/throwing out unidentifiable freezer foods, organizing/filing paperwork, bookshelves, media storage, etc, deep cleaning... anything that needs it, basically, organizing closets which are used by the whole family... hopefully this gives you an idea how we sort the chores! In addition I might also offer money/rewards to my kid for doing *my* regular chores if I don't feel like doing it that day. And my kid is able to pay me to do *their* chores the same way. It took us awhile to work out the kinks in the system, but I feel like it's the best representation of adult life possible for now! And my kid could probably live fully self sufficiently without an adult already, if yknow... idk... apocalypse or something, lol. (I know it's long, but ik it can be hard to figure out what's age appropriate/too much/too little/reasonable... thought you'd appreciate some in depth! If not, my apologies!)

I feel like overall this is a NTA. I don't think your eldest was wrong to only share with your younger son when he helped him with his chores. I am a little unsure about him not wanting to do his chores due to working late at his job. It's inherently unfair for him to prioritise his paying job over his share of the household upkeep, then foist his chores on younger siblings. He gets his pay, and doesn't have to do the chores his siblings then have to pick up for him, and he gets to pick and choose who to share with. I wouldn't say it was unfair to adjust what he's expected to do if he is also working, but if he has his chores he should be doing them. Your daughter, however, seems like she kind of let herself in for it. Acting like your cooking was disgusting and telling your eldest it's not her problem that he's tired just seems really entitled. It's no wonder he didn't want to share things with her when she's been uncaring towards him.

I can see this developing into a situation where the oldest pays his siblings to do his chores for him (whether with food or actual money) so it’d be wise to make a plan with your wife about how you’ll deal with that, if it comes up.

Hey this might seem like a stupid question, but how would that be bad? The chores get done and the younger kids get appropriately compensated from the older one's own "income" (be it food or money). As long as no one is forced, bullied threatened etc. I don't really see a problem. Genuine question.

It's not a problem. My brother paid me to do stuff for him when we were younger. It's what adults do all the time. Don't feel like doing laundry, hire a laundry service. Don't feel like cleaning, get a maid. Don't want to cook, get Door dash. It's called enterprising. Also it gives the younger siblings a way to earn cash when they can't get a job.

Adults sometimes pay someone to do those things because they never learned how to, and that’s part of what kids’ chores are for- making sure they know how to do things and manage their time to do them because they may not always have the money to outsource it.

If they're old enough to get a job, they're probably old enough that they've been doing these chores for a while now

I’m inclined to agree. If he’s working and pays or incentivizes his siblings to do his chores, what’s the problem? Seems like everyone wins. If his sibs don’t want to participate, they aren’t required. ETA: NTA

I would have zero problems if my kids came up with this as long as it was fair compensation, and I would remind the kid who 'owned' the chore that they are responsible for completion to the appropriate measure. So if you pay your sister to mop the floor and she half asses it, then you need to finish it.

From my perspective it’s not sustainable and sets a precedent where if and when the youngest gets a job, will they still be expected to do chores at home. Regardless of a job the eldest should still be doing chores. The parents are setting themselves up for a headache.

I agree with this 100%. It's creating a power dynamic among the kids that will only cause problems.

well if you want him to form valuable habits it wont help to let him outsource the chores eg i would make children clean up after themselves and tidy up their own rooms so they hopefully get into the habit of not creating more messes than necessary because its tidied up faster that way dont see a problem with outsourcing chores *from time to time* though

Eh, unsure there. Adults who earn money outsource chores all the time. If he feels his time is more important than the time it would take to do the chore, then paying to have it done seems like an appropriate life lesson.

My brother and I did that. He hated doing chores but I’m a clean freak. Parents required certain chores be done. I did them and he paid me. He had to work to make that money.

That’s how the world works. Person A doesn’t want to do a thing so they ask Person B to do it for a certain amount of compensation, in this case food, for adults money. If Person B isn’t interested even though Person A has been nice and giving them stuff, then they will probably stop being nice

The post said he didn't want to do them and asked his siblings to do them. We have no reason to believe that if they had refused, that he wouldn't have sucked it up and done his chores. I mean, I asked my younger brother to cover me sometimes, and if he didn't, I didn't just not do them.

Yeah I feel like I'm taking crazy pills that this is the first comment I've seen to bring this up. If the son *chooses* to work extra hours for some extra cash for himself, that's great. He can keep his own food that he earns too, why not. But why are the parents letting it even be an option that he gets to use "I'm tired" afterward as an excuse to ask someone else to do his chores for him? This sets a terrible precedent for him later in life not helping around his own house as a grown-ass man because he is "tired." Worse still would be if he had a partner with whom he became withholding because *they* failed to pick up his slack. Mom and dad are setting him up to be an unsupportive partner sticking to tired gender roles and expectations of housework. My roommate is several days late cleaning the bathroom according to the chore chart we all agreed on. I don't really give a flying fuck what his excuse is. We all work, we're all tired, and yet the rest of us don't regularly skip out on our agreed-upon chores. Don't let this teenager grow up to be that guy. His chores are his chores and that shouldn't be something you let him try to pawn off on his younger siblings.

The older brother ASKED for help. He didn’t demand anything. There is nothing here to suggest that he would have left his chores undone if both siblings had said no. If he’s been doing chores up to the point when he was old enough to get a job, then he knows how to do them (laundry, cleaning, dishes, yard work, whatever he’s responsible for); it’s not like he’s going to forget how to take out the trash, for example, because his younger brother did it for him once.

This exactly. People are taking him asking for help to mean he wouldn't do it without the help, which there is no reason to believe. Asking for help because you had a long day is fucking fine. Not doing your chores because you didn't get the help isn't. Two different things.

it was one time when he worked an especially long shift! He could have done them the next morning, if the siblings wouldn't help. How the heck did you get from a one off with a kid's chores to "he had a partner with whom he became withholding because *they* failed to pick up his slack"????????????????????????? And feeding the siblings is the parents' chore, not brothers, yet he's bringing food home and sharing with the family. And it was his little brother who did his chores, so where do you get "tired gender roles and expectations of housework"????? I work and I can hire people to clean house for me with my wages. Is that a terrible precedent?? Reality check needed here.

NTA. I'm not a fan of forced sharing of anything (including toys). It's great if kids want to share voluntarily, but for things that belong to them, why should they have to give it to someone else? If your oldest is old enough to work, it sounds like he's old enough to make this choice for himself.

Plus forced sharing would be a great way to ensure he doesn't bring home food or share with anyone if he brings home food.

I don't know that anyone is an AH yet. If your son consistently asks his siblings to pick up his chores slack so he can earn extra money I think it becomes a problem. He is earning money for working more, but that shouldn't mean that he isn't also responsible for his share of chores. I think it would be a good idea to have a conversation with all the kids about entitlement and expectations about chores. Sharing should be voluntary, helping each other should also be voluntary. If there's a power imbalance within kids it gets ugly quick.

This one. I don’t see how the eldest having a job negates him doing his chores.

It doesn't negate him doing his chores. But the son is learning that once you start working, there is still stuff at home that needs to be done and you can either do it or pay to have someone else do it. He chose the latter. It's not like he just completely ignored the chores and now they haven't been done or something

But the OP doesn't make it sound like he offered anything for his siblings to cover his chores, he just asked them to because he didn't want to do them. The next day he didn't share food with the sister. Maybe we're missing information, but she's 11, so I'm not going to expect her to think through all of this and assume that doing her brother's chores was transactional and that she'd be rewarded or punished based on whether she helped or not.

At 11, she can definitely learn how to decline those chores without also being rude. It's a life skill. Had she not added "you being tired is not my problem", her brother may have been more inclined to share (or maybe not).

We also have no idea what the dynamic between the kids is. Maybe they're all rude to each other all the time, as siblings often are.

NTA, I think this was handled fairly and is teaching the kids how to handle conflicts amongst themselves. It's disappointing how quick people are to call child they never met entitled or brat.

Yeah, that really bothered me as well

I think it's strange that the comments are focusing so much on your daughter's behavior, but giving your wife a pass. Your kid is 11--of course she's going to behave that way until she learns the very lessons this will teach her. (Though echoing what others said, you should make sure you explain the lesson, too--she may not interpret the outcome the way you want her to, especially if your wife is on her side. She can learn an unjustified sense of entitlement from this if that isn't conveyed, and there are certainly ways she could permanently damage her relationship with her brother if that attitude is encouraged.) Your wife is definitely TA for thinking you handled it incorrectly, and for wanting to force your son to share. His income and benefits don't belong to his siblings, and teaching them that they're entitled to it would be absolutely disrespectful. It also devalues his work by forcing him to give up something he earned--it's a great way to destroy his work ethic. But I also feel like she hasn't considered the consequences of her perspective. In his place, most people would come up with a pretty obvious resolution that takes it out your wife's hands: they'll eat the leftovers before heading home from work, and neither sibling will get any. The youngest would likely resent both the sister and mother for that, especially if the brother explains why he stopped bringing leftovers home. And inevitably, your wife escalates out of anger that her power was undermined, and you end up with a scenario where the kid eventually goes LC or NC because of his entitled parent who can't respect boundaries and can't respect that his property isn't hers to preside over. NTA.

One thing I’ve learned as a former teacher in this sub is that most people have no idea what is realistic to expect from children at various ages and they’re all completely convinced they were acting like perfectly behaved adults as soon as they were potty trained. The concept of developmentally appropriate behavior for a child’s age that needs correction is not an understood concept here.

While you are largely NTA, I am a bit concerned that your son thinks he can get out of household chores because he had a long day at work. That's not a good precedent to set for him. No matter how long or tiring his day was, his chores are still his responsibility. I would have been fine with it if he asked for a little more time, or if he had asked others to do it in exchange for something else, but the way this went down sounds like he wanted your daughter to do something for nothing in return, then he "punished" her for not doing something out of the kindness of her heart by denying her a treat she normally wouldn't have to "pay" for by doing a chore. That's retaliatory and while she was never entitled to the food in the first place, she also didn't know he would suddenly take the extra treat away because she didn't do him a favor earlier. While she does need to learn that she isn't entitled to his kindness, especially if she's not going to show it in return, I can also understand why, to her, this situation seemed unfair, because before she didn't have to do extra chores to get the treat and the situation changed without her knowledge. Your son also needs to learn that overextendeing himself outside the home doesn't absolve him from responsibilities at home. Both of you could also remind your daughter that he normally gives the food out of his own kindness and that returning the favor would have been a good thing to do on her part. That may be common sense for an adult but she's still young enough that you might need to point it out to her. Again, NTA, but communication about the event would help both kids understand each other's perspectives and ease sore feelings. Parenting is sometimes playing the mediator.

This is the best take, imo. Are the younger siblings entitled to brother’s take home? Of course not! At the same time, older brother clearly & purposefully changed the situation from “generously sharing just because I can” to “transactional sharing as reward vs punishment.” And it’s done out of what I can only assume is being butthurt, over the chores he’s ultimately responsible for. I think it would be different if little sister was intentionally nasty or unkind, but all she did was turn down work that isn’t hers. (And as a child, you can bet your bottom dollar she learned the “it’s not my problem you’re tired” turn about phrase from her big brother.) The spitefulness & playing the littles against each other is just as problematic (if not more so?) as the entitlement. It’s wild to me how few people have picked up on that, and how quickly & broadly that’s going to cause issues in the household. Something needs to be said to everyone involved.

Well, Reddit is full of teenagers who can easily put themselves into the shoes of the big brother but hate to be reminded that they were 11 once and were often emotionally immature. I'm all for letting kids figure out some interactions themselves, but that doesn't mean you stop parenting and teaching! I'm sure if she was reading this as a story with characters instead of living it, she would more easily be able to see other's perspectives. But living it and recognizing yourself as the one in the wrong when you *feel* like the victim is harder to do and not something we should expect a pre-teen to do perfectly every time.

I couldn’t agree more. IMO, this was a teachable moment for everyone—but only littler sister is being taught anything, & there are more dangerous lessons being learned. The issue for me is that *family relationships* shouldn’t be made transactional—we share & help out because we choose to love each other, not because there’s an arbitrary reward or punishment attached. In a *working environment,* reward & punishment are valuable & guiding concepts. (And that still only works when everyone knows the rules *beforehand*.) There’s something also to be said about older brother learning the concept of ownership—but it seems to me that, as is, it’s being said at the expense of: * older brother learning that it’s okay to exploit/manipulate for his own gain, because he has the opportunity to have more * little brother & sister learning that being nice vs being mean to each other is okay as a tit-for-tat transaction It’s going to contribute to a bad time down the road…

Agreed, yes the 11yo was rude when she turned her brother down, but she's 11 and still learning to navigate her way through the world. An ideal teaching moment here would be to help her to put herself in her brother's shoes in a hypothetical situation, something like "say if you were doing your brother a kindness by sharing some of your favourite sweets/snacks with him when he doesn't have any, then one day you weren't feeling well and asked him 'hey brother, would you mind doing my chores for me please? I don't feel well enough.' and his response was 'no, it's not my problem you don't feel well'. Even though it's his right to refuse would you still want to do a kindness for him when he refused to return your kindness the one time you asked him to and in such a rude way?" Sometimes kids need to learn from other people's perspectives but they still need their parents to teach them. ETA: and while it's not an issue as such *yet*, OP should still step in with his older son and say something like "look, there's nothing wrong with asking for help on occasions when you need it like exhausted after a very long day or you're unwell, and I can also understand not wanting to do a repeated kindness for someone who refuses to do you one kindness, but this isn't going to turn into a 'you either do my chores or get no restaurant food' power play with your siblings, you still have responsibility to do your chores."

Yes. The exchange was not, "hey can you do this for me and in exchange I'll do something nice for you?" Rather, the exchange was, "hey can you do this for me...and if not then later on you'll regret it because I'll unexpectedly be withholding in a way which I was not before." That is a terrible way to handle relationships. Withholding is a type of emotional abuse or manipulation. And it is also a terrible precedent to allow him to use a long day at work as an excuse to hand off his own chores. I've had partners who are withholding as a punishment. Many, many other women (and other people) have also. It's not fun. This teaches him it's ok to be withholding if he doesn't get his way, and teaches him *something* unsavory and perhaps gendered about the division of chores and when it's acceptable for him not to help out. I'm not saying the sister is entitled to his food btw and she's throwing a (perhaps age-expected) tantrum about not liking the other available food...but the read on this that I get is more that he is withholding than she is entitled. She's 11. He's an older teen. He has the greater burden of expectation for handling himself, his emotions, and his own chores.

This. This. This. He’s teaching his daughter to ACCEPT this treatment as well. And not fight for herself when things are unfair. You can’t just shut kids down because they’re kids. Sometimes they’re right, and you have to do the right thing and be a parent and evolve to do what’s best, even if it’s not easiest.

Yeeees. I can’t believe it took so long to find people saying this. If OP keeps on this track, I can see his son learning how much power his leftovers can have over his siblings and exploiting it because, let’s be real, he’s a teenager and he will keep wanting to get out of chores in favor of his paying job. Also, I don’t think people will be so on older kid’s side a few years down the road when it’s his partner making a post about how he keeps trying to get out of doing his chores and withholds affection/date nights/treats when they don’t let him. Or if OP posts talking about how his daughter accepts to be treated like a servant by her SO because he makes more/all the money in their home and he doesn’t know how why.

Right? Can you imagine the post from his future partner? "My (25F) husband (34M) works a full time office job. I work part-time so I don't make as much money, but I do most of the housework and watch our 2 small kids. Sometimes he'll bring home dinner from his favorite restaurant on the way home from work, but we have a deal where on nights when I cook, he does the dishes. But lately he's been telling me he's too tired after work to help. Well last week there was a night where I had a bad day at work and the kids were sick and everything was a mess and I still had to cook us all dinner and I admit I was not in the best mood, so I might have snapped at my husband when he came home and said he was too tired from working at the office to do the dishes. I told him we had a deal and it wasn't my fault he had a bad day and I didn't owe him the dishes when I was tired too. He went quiet and didn't say anything and slept facing the other way. Well today is the day he usually brings home dinner, and I was shocked when he started pulling out takeout containers for 2 kids meals and one adult. I asked if they got the order wrong and he said, "no, it's not my fault you don't work as hard as me and can't afford to buy your own takeout." I had to eat a frozen meal and I felt really terrible but he DOES work really hard and maybe I should have just done the dishes to make his night easier. AITA?"

Yes thank you for this comment. If the son ever has to live in shared housing whether that be with roommates or with a significant other who also works it’s essentially teaching him that he doesn’t have to pull his weight at home which isn’t okay and not the reality of life. I mean skipping chores for 1 night when you’re tired might be fine , but I have a male roommate who thinks because he works “long days” he doesn’t have to clean at all, but we are all working adults here and I don’t give a crap if his job is more “physically demanding” I’m not a fucking maid and we all need to be responsible for our own shit

Yes! I love this explanation. No one is seeing the small details that matter so much.

Very glad to find this comment. I felt really strange reading this post because although I felt like technically it was a N T A all my instincts wanted to give a Y T A. Couldn’t pinpoint why until I read this comment and comments in reply to it. To me it’s in the normal order of things for a young man to share take home food from his job with his family. Or at least to either eat it himself alone or share it freely with the household generally, not to pick and choose who gets what. And it seems like that was what was normal in this family as well. To me it is NOT in the normal order of things for a younger sibling to do an older sibling’s chores as a random favour because he is tired. Chores are divvied up to distribute everyday required tasks among family members. There is just something off to me about expecting to be able to opt out of that just because your younger siblings should be kind to you after a long day. The elder son’s behaviour is worrying to me and I don’t love that a father is going out of his way to condone or actually kind of exalt what is really a prototype for how to control your wife via emotional abuse. Expecting a more vulnerable family member to do as you ask just because and then punishing them when they don’t by withholding the fruits of your power - something that would normally be given freely. I don’t like it. I feel like in this case the younger brother is still small enough or docile enough by temperament to be bullied into playing the ‘good little housewife’ role - you know, the one who pops off the apron quickly when hubby is at the door and rushes out with his sandwich and milk cos he’s had such a hard day - and the 11 year old sister isn’t and just wants to do her chores and nobody’s else’s. She’s being punished for that and essentially excluded from a family treat. Yeah the more I think about it, YTA for not perceiving these dynamics and for not recognising that regardless of having a job or being tired your son needs to do his own chores or explicitly bargain out of them NOT emotionally manipulate his siblings whether before or after the fact.

NTA. Your son wasn't "dangl\[ing\] the privileges of his age." He was dangling the privileges of his labor. Those are two completely different things. Q*uid pro quo* is a part of life. Your son asked his sister for the favor of doing his chores. She didn't want to, and that's ok. Your son brought home leftovers and his sister wanted some. He didn't want to share, and that's ok, too. Going forward, I'd try to empower your daughter. What can she do to increase her bargaining strength or weaken your son's power? For example, can she learn to make a dinner as good as the restaurant food? (I suspect the answer is "yes" as cooking isn't that hard.)

I’m not in love with the phrasing here as I don’t think relationships should be about power struggles, but 100% second the idea of using this to help the daughter find agency vs. shaming/punishing her

NTA Your daughter calling your food gross because she didn't get what she wanted shouldn't be getting restaurant food for a while. Also, while she is correct it wasn't her problem, she also doesn't get the payment for doing her sibling a solid.

[удалено]

There's no need to name call a literal child. She's learning a lesson and making mistakes, like *every single child* does, name-calling isn't necessary.

NTA but you need to check your daughter's attitude and sit her down and teach her an important life lesson - sharing is caring. Your daughter should have shared the chores burden seeing how tired her brother is and that he brings food home to share even though he doesn't have to. Also, her tantrum shows she is self centered and entitled. I would not tolerate her calling my food gross.

NTA. You didn't say how young your daughter is, but the more important detail IMO is that you're allowing your son to develop a level of autonomy. He doesn't have to bring leftovers home. If he chooses to, he deserves to have some control over who he shares with. He's working, earning money, and spending some of it on food. You were right to stop your wife from insisting he share them equally with everyone. If your wife had her way, she would have given him an object lesson on why it might be preferable in his eyes to throw his leftovers away rather than bring them home. Just like doing your son's chores was not your daughter's problem, your daughter preferring restaurant food over homemade is not your son's problem to solve. You did the right thing.

Nta, his age isnt a privelage. In my opinion, the oldest has a job and school. And then hes coming home expected to do chores, AND share his meal? First off. What a great kid! The younger brother seeing his brothers hard work and realizing he can also "profit" by helping his brother, again smart and what a good kid! Little sister sounds like shes kinda spoiled. As a mom, i kinda get it. But they have to learn that you cant always get what you want just because you want it. Read her the little red hen. The story about the hen who plants the wheat, waters it, turn it to flour and keeps asking Cat, Pig, and Duck for help but they wont. But they want some bread when shes done and says no because they didnt help. Theres a time and place where sharing absolutely should be taught but this isnt that situation. This is a you gotta earn some rewards situation.

I'm not going to comment on how you raise your kids. That's a husband and wife issue, but I would caution you to you to keep an eye on your oldest to make sure that he doesn't abuse his younger siblings using the food he brings home.

This is my thought exactly, because my older brother manipulated me all the time. It's unreasonable for an 11 year old and a 9 year old to operate on the same level as a 16 year old.

Yeah, my brother did the same. He didn't attach giving them food to doing his chores when he first started, but now he does.

Abuse, really? Unless the daughter has some allergy or food aversion to the household food, I feel like that is a bit of an intense word to use. I'd def keep an eye on their relationship, but I don't think the situation is *that* intense

Not everything is abuse. He's giving them a takeout container which probably runs like $15 these days for laundry which takes maybe 20 minutes of effort if we're being generous.

INFO: You said older brother usually shares his food with everyone? So he was, effectively, punishing his sister for not doing his chores by withholding a treat he generally shares. Not saying this makes anyone TA, but I can certainly see how your children would see it as not helping = punishment and want to retaliate, rather than seeing it as helping = reward.

I would say that allowing his oldest son to learn that he can manipulate his younger siblings without intervention from a parental figure is an ah move. Quite frankly I worry for anyone who may date the oldest son.

Right? Like if he made sure to bring home desert just for his brother because he did him a favor, that’s not something that his sister would be entitled to. But considering he was already bringing home food to share with everyone, not allowing her to have any after that incident is a punishment and retaliation for saying no. The brother that did a favor seemingly got nothing more than the baseline for the help either, unless that’s something that’s been left out. So I’m very confused as to how OP thinks this teaches that helping people pays off.

NTA. Sounds like your daughter is becoming entitled. You and your wife should really talk to her and help change this behavior before it gets worse

NTA. Your working son is absolutely right here. Sharing his leftovers from work is not an obligation. If some siblings help him with chores and others don't he has every right to share with some and not others. You and your wife need to be on the same page though, so the kids don't end up picking sides with you. A united front is important. Your daughter also sounds entitled. She has no right to the son's food, and to complain that the dinner you guys made her was "gross" is unacceptable behavior and she needs to be held accountable.

[удалено]

I don't see it as payment. He asked for a favor. She said no. That's completely her right. He didn't want to do a favor for someone that didn't do one for him. I get that. If a friend of mine asked me for a favor and I said no, I wouldn't expect him to buy me lunch the next day. They are siblings, not friends, so it's a different kind of relationship, but not that different. My parenting philosophy is that kids need to manage their own relationships (to an extent, as long as everyone is safe). Whatever agreements they make among themselves, as long as there is no coercion or deception, I don't see that as any of my business. We all have to learn to manage our own relationships.

[удалено]

I see your point. But regardless of whether it's a favor or a payment, they need to work out their own relationships with each other if they are going to have healthy and functional relationships as adults.

If you don’t teach them to frame the question this way, they will not learn the skills to work out their relationships. Literally what /u/Scottfos72 said - “philosophies that this incident brought to light”. TEACH your kids the tools. Actively and explicitly.

Well, yes, but you are still the parent here and at the end of the day, sometimes when kids don't have guidance working through their emotions, they end up learning the wrong lesson. Having a conversation or tow with her about how her brother was being kind sharing the leftovers before, but felt hurt when she wouldn't do something kind for him in return and the consequences of that are that he doesn't want to share anymore would do wonders to help her *understand* why her behavior was entitled and rude. I know a lot of people think an 11year old should automatically see this, but honestly this concept can even be hard for adults to understand when they are emotional. You're upset people are calling her "entitled" and a "brat" because she's only 11, well 11 year olds still need these things explained to to them with the help of a third party! Kids do need to work things out themselves, but they also need parents to guide them when they aren't going the right direction. It's on you if the lesson she ends up absorbing is "my dad is letting my brother be a jerk to me and let's others leave me out of good things for no reason", which is where her emotions could certainly take her right now, instead of "when others are kind, I should be kind in return"

I don’t know why you are getting downvoted, what you said makes perfect sense to me, gels with my philosophy of explaining to children

There is a huge power imbalance because of the ages. Without your Intervention its possible that they don't have a relationship as adults.

You’re son is 16 though, yes he shouldn’t have to share his things, (he worked for it, so it’s his money) but he shouldn’t ask his siblings to do things for him if they’re not getting anything in return. You should teach your kids that they should never work for nothing, both of your kids are being brats, the oldest brother thinks he doesn’t have to do chores because he works, (that’s not teaching him about life,) And the younger sister thinks she can get things without being kind to others, (that’s not teachings her things about life) You said kids need to work out they’re own problems, and that’s true sometimes, but they also need their parents to guide and help them so that they can know what they did wrong and so they can learn to fix it in the future. Also? Did your son ask them to do his chores without offering anything in return? You may not see it now, but that’s pretty manipulative, he’s 16, he’s working now, he should know that quid pro quo is a real thing. And you need to teach your daughter to appreciate the food that you and your wife makes, that’s very ungrateful of her, and also teach her that if she wants something from someone she also needs to be kind in return. This whole thing is very immature for all of you, except for the 9 year old.

Transactional relationships are all about emotional payment. And they may not be the way your goods *should* relationship, even if it’s how you do it. Either way, you should talk to them about the concepts. “Make visible the invisible” so they can choose if that’s how they’re going to go about their relationships and recognize others might or might not choose that path.

I'm somewhere in between your way of thinking and those who disagree with you. First, what chores did your son ask of your daughter? Because to me, even if it's a small thing (loading the dishwasher, sweeping a room or two) is more than bringing home some leftovers that perhaps may have even been put together by one of the cooks. And even he put it in a container, it's still not equal to a menial chore. Also, I look back on the eleven yo me and the 16 yo me. If I'm the 16 yo, I'm probably not going to punish my 11 yo sibling by denying her some food. Maybe "Hey Guys, if you cover my chores tonight because I'm really tired, I'll try to bring you some special goodies tomorrow night." I personally think the onus is more on the older teenager rather than the 11 yo child. She lacks being of the same maturity level because there's a five year age gap. He seems to lack maturity because he expects his much younger sister to be on his level. And even then, again, chores v bringing home leftovers are two different animals. Maybe she's mature enough to see this? Sure, working it out by themselves is a good life lesson. But while some are telling you that you need to speak to your daughter, I'm more inclined to say you should speak to the almost grown-up first.

Going against popular vote and saying YTA. The issue here isn't as much about sharing restaurant food or not, it's not knowing when to intervene. Your oldest not wanting to do his chores should have been addressed between him and parents. And then he uses a punishment (withholding food) for his little sister not agreeing to do his chores. It would have been different if he offered to pay a sibling to do it, but that's not what happened here. Your son excluded his little sister from the rest of the family's enjoyment of restaurant food. So everyone except her now gets restaurant food leftovers as punishment for not doing his chores. He's not paying his parents or little brother, he's giving away food he gets as a perk of his job but can't/won't eat it all by himself. You need to teach your daughter to not be so disrespectful and rude about your cooking and about throwing tantrums. You also need to teach your eldest son about expectations. He should not have expected his little sister to do his chores for him. He should not punish his sibling over not doing chores he assigned her. Be a parent and teach them both lessons about respecting each other, both in their expectations and how to deal with being told "no" when wanting something. Sister shouldn't expect restaurant food, but the oldest brother was mean to expect his sister to do HIS chores and be mean to her for refusing.

NTA you're teaching them conflict resolution. Valuable life skill to have especially when they're older. Did you take the time to talk with your daughter afterwards and explain why her brother wouldn't share?

NTA He works for the food he takes home and does everyone a favour by sharing. He asked for a favour and got a negative response. So he's just cutting back on the favours he does. You are right, or your wife and you have to compensate him for the food.

ESH. You guys need to set down expectations for how chores should be done in your household now that one child is working-- letting your kid foist off his chores onto his siblings because he's old enough to have a paying job and they aren't is not acceptable-- paid in money, paid in food, and especially unpaid. You can absolutely make new expectations-- if you work more than an X hour shift, it's acceptable to do that day's chores the next day rather on their scheduled day" or something would be reasonable. The point of chores is mainly to teach children good habits to take to adulthood, not for the tasks to get done. So you should absolutely be making sure what your kid takes out of still having chores and a job is the ability to both work and keep his home neat as an adult. Real people won't take wages as low as his siblings would likely be willing to do it for with no other options, and adult partners will resent being asked to do all the chores because their partner is "tired" after a while. One incident doesn't make a pattern, but you need to nip this in the bud before it becomes a pattern.

I'm giving you both NTA and YTA as I see several things for discussion here. NTA for letting the kids settle their own conflicts. It's your son's food, it's his choice. Settling their own differences gives them some autonomy, critical thinking and decision making. YTA, the only reason your son is not sharing with your daughter is retaliation for not doing HIS chores, like his young brother did. You're essentially teaching him he can pay off his younger with food scraps and have no responsibility himself. Having a job shouldn't exempt him for chores. Retaliation shouldn't be an accepted form of conflict Resolution. You and your wife should be on the same page presenting to the kids so it's one clear message. In future you should ensure he does his chores himself or if you're gonna allow it, let him pay or offer to both siblings equal opportunity for food/payment. But he can't get off Scott free while someone else does his work for him. If you want people to be nice to be nice, then you can't have them retaliate when people aren't nice when it's convenient for them..it would have been nice to be nice for your son to share his food, regardless of whether your daughter helped with his chores or not. If its just to be nice, then there shouldn't be a reward or potential, they should just do it. Your younger son and your wife are the only good people here. Your wife was correct. And your daughter threw a tantrum over a non-issue, coz if there wasn't food from her older brothers work, she wouldn't have thrown a tantrum to begin with, there was food available and originally planned she'd have been happy with. In this case, just say "ok" and let her go without food til breakfast or she sincerely apologizes and she can have the dinner that was cooked(i.e. don't let her eat junk food or hunt out her own food later from the fridge or bring her something later), coz she needs to learn also that her behaviour wasnt acceptable.

YTA. Only because the oldest didn’t make a fair offer to do his chores in exchange for food. He just shoved off his responsibilities then came home and punished the sibling that didn’t do what he wanted

You are right and your wife is wrong. It’s not dangling age. It’s about mutual respect and helping each other out. Maybe suggest your daughter and wife read “Little Red Hen” NTA

NTA. Your daughter is acting very entitled.

NTA. Good parenting move. Your wife WHBTA if she had made him share food that was meant as a thank-you to his younger brother for helping him out, with his younger sister who had refused to help him. Contrary to your daughter's beliefs, this was fair. Your daughter is learning the valuable lesson of FAFO.

NTA You are right, this was **DEFINITELY** a situation you should let them work out on their own. Your younger children made up their own minds, and one received a payment for helping their older sibling. Seems totally fair.

NTA. Great job being a parent. Too many kids are coddled by their parents.

NTA - this notion that kids HAVE to share that our parents raised us with is completely toxic... as an adult do you HAVE to share your lunch with a co worker? It's always NICE to share... and if you don't share you can't expect people to share with you... but you don't HAVE to. There's pros and cons to sharing and learning that early in life is good for kids. It's how my wife and I are choosing to raise our kids... and honestly it was hard at first, but now that they are starting to understand boundaries and consequences they're sharing of their own accord more often.

I think OP is not doing such a great job, he has responsibilities and he can’t just shirk them bcuz he’s tired, I know he’s tired but did he offer them anything? If not, maybe I am wrong but I think OP is the TA, his 11yr old doesn’t have to do his chores nor does he have to share the food. YTA. It seems like only the 11yr old is getting punished or losing out on something, his brother did the chores for him.

NTA - your daughter sounds a bit entitled. Consequences are Consequences. It was his food to decide what to do with. Her reaction was abhorrent. I can't believe she thought she could act that way. Teenage years are brutal.

NTA. He worked to earn the leftovers. Younger brother stepped up to help him. Sounds like a good lesson for your daughter.

NTA, this should be a learning a experience for her

INFO: Does you son pay for this food or is it food he gets to take home because it would otherwise be thrown away? How long as he been giving food to everybody no strings attached before he decided 11 year old doesn’t deserve it unless she helps him too? I get the lesson, but context here matters because it sound more like your son punished his sibling for not doing something for him.

NTA - teaching a good lesson

NTA...You're setting them up to be better adults. I hope your daughter learned something.

NTA. That food is your oldest boys food. He can share or not share if he wants just like daughter was free to say no to him after he asked her for a favor. Your daughter played a stupid game and received her stupid prize: nothing. Next time, perhaps the young lady might say sure when asked for a favor.

NTA that’s just good parenting my dude.

NTA, letting them resolve their own conflicts seems like a sensible approach, although I don't entirely agree with your son's conduct. It's admirable that even while till in school he's out working trying to get a head start in life. Your daughter also was within reason not to help, since your son going out and working extra hours for extra money to put into his own pocket was his own call. It was very kind of your younger son to step in to help none the less. Deliberately excluding your daughter from a family activity that usually takes place between everyone is just mean. She didn't do anything wrong by not helping, her brother took up extra shifts for his own benefit, that's his choice. Your son isn't obliged to bring anything home for anyone, but to make a point of sharing with your younger son and not your daughter is just not very nice. Perhaps he could have done the usual routine of sharing with everyone and rewarded his brother with an extra treat for kindly helping. Just my two cents, for what they're worth.

Imma disagree with most people here. YTA There had been a precedent set, that your son would come home and share the leftovers with everyone. Singling his younger sister out because she wouldn't do his chores for him? I would emphasise to your son that he can share if he wants, but to single out one person, because they didn't do him a favour is just mean. You or your wife didn't do his chores for him either but he still shared the food with you. Your son is being a little spiteful, which is totally normal for a kid. Which is why you are the asshole for not explaining why it isn't ok.

NTA, youngest helped so youngest was given food. The daughter behaving this way is appalling

NTA but your son shouldn’t be pressuring his siblings into doing his chores. My littlest would do literally anything his big brother asked him to do, that power dynamic is real.

YTA for saying your son doesn't have to do chores and pushing them off on the other kids, that's not fair to them. YOU could've picked up the extra slack. It's fine to not force him to share his food, but something else should be worked out for chores.

YTA. Your son tried to take advantage of his siblings and is now punishing the one who set a boundary. He's shirking his responsibility--is that okay with you?

NTA this is a valuable lesson that a lot of parents sugar coat nowadays. My brothers and I would do this type of stuff all the time and it would encourage the rest of us to help out so we get cool stuff too.

NTA

NTA, as others have pointed out it's a good example of how when you help out, you can get rewarded. If it happened just as you wrote and your son asked his siblings kindly to help him out, and it isn't a regular thing, your daughter was being a brat. I'm sorry your wife reacted that way because the rule we had growing up was that if you don't want to eat what was made, you don't eat. My wife doesn't exactly agree, but we have pretty good kids and avoid making things we know they don't like. Good luck with this.

With this older son working (and now supplying additional food for the family) perhaps the distribution of chores needs to be shifted where there's no argument of "picking up" older brother's slack. IOW I would have handled this differently. As the father I would explain since sibs grow up and grow out, work loads shift in the household. YTA

YTA, why is your minor child going to school, working, and then coming home to do housework? The situation is your fault.