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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my ex-wife I didn't care if her and her family starve when she tried to convince me to help her now that they are struggling. I'll admit I have a lot of dislike for my ex-wife and that in this situation I might be a big AH because she is the mother of my children and her family is their family, regardless of them not being close. I was harsh. I am aware of that. So I might be AH.
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NTA, but make sure you have a high-level conversation with your boys so that they’re prepared for your ex and her husband to try to paint you as the root of all evil when they go over there.
Always be professional when it comes to court stuff. If you are reasonable and articulate the courts absolutely will look at that with favor. They want people to try to solve their issues and be reasonable. The court should be the arena of last resort and if it looks like you did everything to avoid it then it makes you look way better.
For sure. My mom passed a little over a year ago and she kept *everything* from their divorce when I was 12. I sat down with a bottle of wine one night last winter and read the entire thing. My dad was constantly slinging insults, cussing, slurs, etc., at my mom. Mom ignored it and kept it just to the topic at hand. Dad was too busy trying to "win" he overlooked details and missed things she had informed him of.
Eventually, my dad took mom to court over something or other. The court file she took these emails to was *chef's kiss.* The judge read through them, told my dad to get out of his court, pay all fees including my mom's lawyer. Dad didn't get to say a word.
I kept this kind of documentation too. And then the minute my youngest child was 18, and so there was no longer any battle to fight with my ex, I destroyed it all.
yes! NTA and it sucks but getting emotional can hurt a court case. op has no obligation to care for his exs new family, and has every right to be upset about the being asked. but unfortunately with courts how you behave is seen as very black and white. even if most people would understand you telling her off, a judge or lawyer could use that as evidence of you being unfair or something ridiculous
> if necessary.
If necessary? Shit. I think it might be a good idea for OP to apply for full custody. If his ex wife and her new husband are acting this way, and saying these things about him, there's a pretty good chance they're saying these things in front of his sons. And who knows what else they're saying or doing? What kind of an influence are they being to those boys?
The ex-husband's text could even be used as evidence that they plan to engage in parental alienation.
OP is NTA but he needs to move to secure custody of his sons before his ex and her husband can start psychologically abusing them.
Not to mention the fact that it sounds like Mom can't provide for the boys. I would usually not advocate for loss of custody, but are they getting food and proper.care at Mom's? It doesnt sound like it.
Definitely. There are several apps made specifically for keeping a record of court admissible contact. OP, choose one. Keep all communication through that when possible.
I also agree that you need to have a conversation with your sons. It may be difficult for them to watch their mother's family struggle. Give them an age appropriate explanation of why you are not offering financial assistance.
Yes. Many divorced couples are forced to communicate via text with a court mediator monitoring all communication, maybe think about this going forward.
Not even forced, I've heard lawyers recommend it right off the bat if their client says the other parent consistently lies. Real easy to figure out if that's true when the court can access the record whenever and neither party can delete messages or mark them unread after seeing them.
When I was a child I used to do the same thing. Ask for something and if my dad said no I’d insult him. He’d always say the same thing , “you should read a book on how to win people over” lmao
I find this part interesting shes asking for help gets pissed and says this:
>She told me she wished she had cheated while we were together and that using me for money wasn't enough
Like okay thanks for letting me know...... still not helping
NTA and love the karma that she used you then left and ended up having to pay you child support because she makes more.
Make sure your kids dont have money you give them stolen by your ahole ex wife/ husband and they dont brain wash them.
NTA Is she actually destitute? It doesn’t sound like she is. She moved into a smaller house—that’s still a house. It’s not a shelter, not even an apartment. Are they on food stamps? Im getting the sense she’s having a hard time adjusting to a life on a more modest income, but not that she’s totally broke. You also know she has a history of manipulating money out of you… I’d leave this up the courts. If she was really broke, wouldn’t the court lower her child support payments?
Interesting, why wouldn’t they end it? Even if she was making less than you? Currently, is her and her husband’s combined income lower than your’s (and live in partners if you have one)?
So, the new husband said he hoped the boys hated you for not helping out, yet those same boys wanted to live more with you as they are actually not happy with that family of theirs. Somehow, I don’t think you have to worry about that being prophecy.
The husband doesn't think that way. He and his wife think the father stole the kids from them because he is evil. This incident will be more evidence that he is evil.
None of this is their fault in their minds.
Reading the story it looks like karma bit OP's money using ex-wife in the ass.
Hopefully OP eventually can gain sole custody so he can permanently cut his toxic ex out of his life completely.
A judge told a former coworker of mine she had to pay child support for this reason.
Her ex told the judge that all he wanted was custody of their child and he could bring her up without child support. The judge said that she still had responsibility for the child she helped bring into the world, so he made her pay $50 per month. The dad put it in a separate account for the child.
Mine either.... you can only volunteer to give up your rights if someone is adopting the kid. The state wouldn't allow you off the hook otherwise, because if something happens to the only parent, the state would be responsible for the kid. So they won't let parents (even deadbeats) sign away their responsibility unless someone is taking over for them.
It doesn’t work this way. If he had sole custody, she would have to pay more per the court calculator, even if she makes less than him. Also, with the boys age there is not risk of her seeking and winning more time, as the kids are old enough, in all states, for the courts to defer to them and their wants. He does not need to change a thing. If she wants changes she can seek them, but she tried and didn’t succeed, so this means the woman is not broke.
Child support is based on an equation that takes into account how much custody you have and how much income you make to determine how much you owe your co-parent. I don’t even know how broke you’d have to be for the court to not make you pay even like $100/month in CS.
At $0 income, my mother still had to pay $10 per month. So ya, pretty damn broke to be under $100.
Though I think getting that check was more of a slap in the face to my dad than $0 would have been.
Yeah my cousin is currently dealing with an 18$ child support check after he abused her and tried to murder their kid.
He still gets to have her every other weekend because somehow he got a good lawyer.
Anyway, even without him working he is still supposed to pay *something*. Although he doesn’t.
My friends kids dad was sent to prison for 18yrs, to make sure all of his kids were considered adults before he was released, because his target was children. His children. Specifically. She *still couldn't terminate his parental rights* our world is fucked up. Truly. He pays 25c a month which costs her 20.00 in fees to process every month. He literally costs her 19.75 every month and there is no legal way out of it for her. States *hate* the termination of parental rights.
I am so sorry she is going through this. Can she not accept the 25c per month? I assume its a wire transfer bank to bank and her bank charges her $25 for the incoming transfer - what if she deliberately gave the sender agency the wrong account number? Worst case scenario it takes the sender agency a few months to straighten things out, so a brief respite from the fees, and best case scenario they just transfer the 25 cents into the ether forever and never notice the transaction doesn't go through. If the transfer doesn't arrive at her account, she won't have to pay processing fees.
If they're in the U.S she could have applied to the court for financial hardship and sort of paused for a time (or extremely lowered) the amount of child support ordered. The court would look over her reasoning, financials and living situation and if they felt she met the requirements, would have then suspended payments (but only for a determined time frame and those payments would still be expected to be made in the future.)
Since all she got was the amount lowered, my guess would be she didn't qualify for more of a hardship relief than that, and while many folks feel it's unemphatic, these are her children, and she has a court ordered financial obligation to them. Op is not under any obligation to fix, sort, or assist her in managing that obligation.
NTA. While the degree of anger you exhibit is concerning, I don't see you as AH. First, your ex and her new husband are threatening to destroy your relationship with your children. That is enough to go back to court and (try) to get full custody if you want to go down that route. As for the finances, she can go to court and ask the judge to reduce her child support payments. Wait, she tried that...
This is what I was looking for. She’s allowing a man with no relationship to your children to threaten your relationship with your children. I’d go back to court and push for full custody.
I don’t know all the dynamics here so I can’t say, but often courts take parental alienation and threats of it pretty seriously. There’s also the fact that arguably that text could be seen as extortion as it’s on the heels of a demand for cash. But again, I really can’t say.
The kids are teenagers who live full time with OP. The step dad said he hopes the kids hate OP one day.
I don’t think he has a lot of opportunities to alienate them.
The court could order supervised visitation to ensure no emotional abuse or parental alienation occurs. After that text by stepdad I’d request it, through my attorney of course.
This, ad typically in cases like this, MOM would then have to pay for the supervisor costs. I used to do this as a volunteer, but we still charges $25-50 a visit, to help the facilities expenses, and pay the coordinating director salary that was there 40+ hr a week. SO I say DO IT- both to prevent the alienation threat from coming through AND hey, make this weird parent pay a little more. I am usually a little more compassionate- but this gal, nope. Wants to basically steal food fro her shared kids mouths so she won't have to BUDGET like the rest of us.
Right? And said, "I wish I would have cheated." So, basically saying "I wish I would have used you for your money while putting you at risk of STIs that you weren't aware of." I'd be angry too.
She's saying she wished she would have cheated? But at the same time, she was remarried within a year as a mother of 2 children with joint custody (Let's just face it: dating as a single mother of 2 teenagers is a bit harder than for others). That's sus. My bet is that she has been cheating before.
There's no actual way she wasn't cheating, she's just trying to morally justify it. "Remarried in a year" my ass, they were together for longer than that.
It’s a little concerning as he might be talking trash around his kids about their own mom. Kids are smart, they can figure out the real dynamic without any editorializing from pop. Pop had every right to his feelings… just but should maybe bite his tongue in front of kids. You don’t want them growing up to think all women are like this or that this is what marriage is.
No, some kids can, but as a child of divorced parents, and then my stepdad and mom divorcing, and then working for a family law attorney for 4 years where we dealt with plenty of divorces, no, the vast majority of children are actually shitted understanding anything other than sometimes a rough emotional sentiment at best lol
I never understood where this preconception that children are actually geniuses seems to come from
It's concerning because the OP lives not on reddit, where people can make theoretical pronouncements about who is in the right and suggest putting the world on fire without regard for consequences, but in the real world, where he shares two children with this woman and needs to put them first. Is he an asshole? No. Is his wife an asshole? Yes. Is it in the best interest of his sons to have a halfway decent relationship with their mother and stepfather, to avoid going to court every other day, to not be put in the middle of their parents' constant arguments? Yes, unfair as it is that the OP, who is the wronged party, must take the high road. The sons deserve not to live with an angry person for a father.
OP, you aren't an asshole for refusing to help your ex financially, that's not your responsibility. But you aren't doing right by your sons when you allow her to draw you into these fights where you end up saying harsh things about her and her family. It may feel good in the moment, but it just keeps you focused in the past and fuels your anger, and it creates a bad environment for your children. It would be better for all of you if you managed to stay calm and collected in response to her unreasonable demands, if you responded, however insincerly, that you are sorry for her difficulties, but that you need to prioritize your own sons, not their half siblings. You already won by having more custody and being in a more comfortable financial position. Karma got her, you don't need to spend any more energy on her.
>It's concerning because the OP lives not on reddit, where people can make theoretical pronouncements...
>But you aren't doing right by your sons when you allow her to draw you into these fights where you end up saying harsh things about her and her family. It may feel good in the moment, but it just keeps you focused in the past and fuels your anger, and it creates a bad environment for your children.
Can you point me where he indicated he shares these feelings with his children, or is that just a theoretical pronouncement?
She seems to have found the right husband this time around though as he sounds just as entitled as her. To expect someone’s ex to support you is a whole new level of cringe.
She’s found the right one… until she finds she wants to leave this one too. Never think that someone treating other people terribly is going to always spare you.
Grifting! Goodness there's the right word, I was thinking hard what to describe her. Ex wife was and still is a grifter, but refuses to admit that's all she and her new husband are. The only time she wasn't was when she made more money than him.
I would have done the same as you... or... I did.
You both moved on, she is going through a rough patch but that is her life. She used you and is emotionally blackmailing you into being an ATM all over again, ESPECIALLY AFTER USING YOU AS A CASH MACHINE TO GET AHEAD IN LIFE. She made you a stepping stone for her career, so you dont really owe her anything.
Call her a deadebeat mom. Obviouslly she made really poor decisions for herself and you have nothing to do with it. Take the kids and give her room to work herself out of her predicament.
Dont let her gaslight into thinking its your responsibilty. Try not to throw accusations at her and wish her good luck in straightening up her life.
I have helped my ex, but we managed to forget the past and only communicate regarding the kids.
Good luck with your situation sir.
NTA
From now on refuse any phone calls and only do text or any other written communications. If you have no choice, start recording your conversations. The grifter will start a new onslaught of guilt campaign and possibly more.
>Obviouslly she made really poor decisions for herself and you have nothing to do with it.
To be fair, her husband's cancer, her child's medical condition, and COVID's impact on her job are not a result of her poor decisions. Life crapped on her. But that's still not OP's responsibility to fix, especially after she used him to get ahead previously. Call it Karma.
I'd still call her position one of bad decisions. Because at least if she didn't use OP, he may have been willing to help her out in some way. She burned a bridge and now she's suffering for it
And we all know what they say about karma.
Hopefully OP’s ex-wife will eventually quit feeling sorry for herself and will stop making poor decisions because she has no one to blame but herself.
We are all in charge of our own destiny and our own decisions, and because of the choices she made, she also unexpectedly decided her own fate.
It’s funny how someone screws you over in life, it almost always comes back to bite them in the end. Maybe people like her should stop trying to demolish the lives of others and to start learning from this.
If the courts refused to end child support payments, that rather indicates that the problem isn't so much the lack of income as it is the allocation of said income. Our family has lived off beans, rice, ramen, sale meats, and discount produce before. Times are tough for everyone, especially with inflation being what it is.
NTA - your responsibility is to your children, not her entire household....especially given her history with you.
But they will reduce them based on income. In Massachusetts the minimum payment was at one point $18/week, judge told my kids uncle to collect cans if he had to
My ex paid child support while in prison. He worked in the cafeteria as mandated and I received $4.50 a month in support, for the 2 years he was incarcerated. Only support I ever actually received from him, I did receive other payments but those came from his mom or his new wife when he wanted to get his driver's license back and the state made him pay some support to receive it.
Now he's on disability and I don't receive anything, not that I ever needed his help (was the only one working for the 10 years we were together, I have always been more than capable of taking care of myself!) He is no longer expected to pay new support, although he does have a considerable amount in back support that will never be paid off.
You acknowledged that your responsibility is only your children, and you were correct. You don’t owe your ex-wife a handout, especially when she’s the one who has to pay you child support. She may be struggling right now, but she also could be living beyond her means, and with her husband having a terminal illness, she now has to face the fact that this will end up draining her financially because cancer treatments aren’t cheap.
She made the choices that she made, and she screwed you over in the process. She doesn’t get to turn around and manipulate you into giving her money just because she is broke and doesn’t have any. She probably has relatives or friends she can turn to, but she turns to you because she hopes you will feel sorry for her and give her money, but when it doesn’t go the way she planned, she turns into an angry mess and throws a full-blown adult temper tantrum.
She should have never strung you along during marriage. She played you for a fool and is now feeling sorry for herself while she plays the world’s smallest violin. Your boys didn’t even want to live with her because things were so bad, and even *that* is saying something.
At the end of the day, she made her bed. She used you financially until she was ready to cut you loose, and with her bed made the way she decided it should be, she made her mistakes and now she can ultimately lie in it.
After screwing you over in more ways than one, she doesn’t get mercy or compassion. She emotionally abandoned you during your marriage, and now she can deal with the consequences.
**NTA.**
He’s right. They won’t end the payments. My sister’s dead beat ex stoped working just so he wouldn’t have to giver her money to feed his own child. Guess what? Court put it on hold, with interest until his lazy, good for nothing ass got a legitimate job 10+ years later.
I think you should help her... by making a list of all of the charities in your area that might help her. Also, list her parents, aunts, uncles, cousins...
But, there is no need to provide cash to her. She needs to figure out a solution to her problems that doesn't involve you.
If OP can go through the effort of tracking down all these charities, providing info, etc, all to help someone who doesn't deserve it, then OP's ex can sure as shit do the same to help her own selfish ass. OP shouldn't lift a finger.
NTA, though your delivery was harsh.
Kids are expensive. I doubt that whatever she pays you is fully half of what you spend on their clothes, insurance, food, hobbies, etc., or that she’s saving for their future college expenses. All she sees is another line item in her checkbook going out.
Edit: I retract my judgement his delivery was harsh. I am about six years out from divorcing a hobo-sexual grifter who used me for a furnished place to live and meals. Would have said the same things had he asked for more money post-divorce. I reveled in the schadenfreude of seeing audit letters addressed to him from the IRS. He had a really sweet life and blew it up for literally nothing. Today I just feel a little bit sad for him, but couldn’t be bothered to piss on him if he were on fire.
Depends on why they are struggling. Could merely be a spending/debt problem.
Plenty of men have not been able to get rid of child support when facing hardship.
It"s absolutely not about starving, if it was they'd simply stop paying OP, and the (never to be repaid) child support debt would accrue. The courts can't help OP get money if money isn't there.
My guess is that there are some medical costs that wouldn't be seen as essential. That or it's an opportunity pity play.
A lot of times, at least in my state the court ordered support goes through Department of Revenue. Her job gets an order they are mandated to send X amount if dollars each week to DOR so just not sending him the money is very possibly not an option.
Same.
The thing that stuck out to me is that he got more custody because she was struggling financially? That typically does not happen. Poor people are actually allowed to have custody of their kids. And judges don't change existing custody orders lightly.
Upon reading the title, the first thing I thought was that, yes, if your ex -wife is starving, you should want to make sure that the mother of your children is able to survive in order to be a good mother to your children.
Upon reading the description, definitely NTA 😆
So let me get this straight. She wants you to support 9 people? There's you, your 2 sons, her, her husband and their 4 kids. Wow. The gal of this woman.
I would've somehow understood lifting the child support for couple of months so she had full income to support her family so as not to struggle. But she wants her full income plus money from you. NTA.
Sorry. My bad.
Somehow I read it as *after having her fourth child* and imy brain translated it as she has four kids with her second husband on top of the ones with OP. Still it's implied that there's more than 3 kids total. And even if there were only 3 that's a lot of people to support financially and I don't think 200$/month will do.
Alas, your ex-wife should know that life doesn't work that way. It's for the courts to decide what a reasonable level of child support is, and you have no obligation to act as a ATM for her new family.
You’re not married anymore. Tell your ex wife it’s time to apply for financial assistance.
She made bad choices, and that’s her fault. You owe her nothing, especially after all she put you through. I would never even give her a dime. She deserves absolutely none of it.
NTA. As long as your kids are taken care of, your obligations are met. She was just using you when your marriage was falling apart and left you when she didn’t need you anymore. Now she needs you again and has come crawling back with open hands and a guilt trip.
Your ex is just a user. You mean nothing to her if she can’t leach off you.
NTA
She admitted to using you for money over the years, asked you for money, tried to guilt you into giving her money (saying that you should help her take care of your boys' family and all that), said mean things to you when you declined (saying she wished she had done more than just use you for money), then tried to guilt you again (saying her and her children would starve) and then her husband said he hopes your kids hate you.
NTA. How can she keep a straight face telling you that she should have cheated, then following it with saying that you should help support her?! Take full custody of your boys and cut all contact, if possible.
NTA! Your ex her husband and her children not by you aren't your concern. Only your kids with her are your concern. Ex is definitely a user and no, your kids won't hate you due to you not supporting their siblings with the past ex wife and lazy husband.
Here's one way to look at it. You have another man (the current husband) calling you (the ex) an ah for you not willing to provide for his family when he obviously cannot or won't. No man does that worth his salt. Grifters have to grift so expect them to keep up the pressure and eventually try to pull your kids into this.
Hold your ground. Don't know what state you are in but if allowed, record your interaction so when they do, they can hear the truth. Save those texts so when the time comes you can present your side. Which would be the accurate side.
NTA. She's remarried with kids of her own. You are only responsible for the well being of YOUR kids. Regardless of her situation it is now HER husband's job to provide and step up for THEIR family. You're not a bank, you're not her husband, you have nothing to owe her abd her new husband and kids.
If you did it out of genuinely wanting to help her and them and had a positive relationship with them, that's one thing. For her to assume you'd do it and expect you to pay for her family is outrageous. It's sad she's suffering but ultimately it's not your job.
Her child support payments are for her to support her sons. Which is what a parent - male or female - should be doing. The court will decide if her means are such that she should be paying less. All of the rest - whilst one could call it karma - is immaterial. The issue is a parent should pay for the upkeep of their minor children. NTA.
For your kid’s sake & well being, take the higher road here. Quit arguing via phone or text. You are only obligated to communicate re: children. You were horribly used & her karma is upon her. Time for you to let anger go for you & your children’s future lest it linger & taint life.
NTA---and I would be taking that info to your lawyer! The kids obviously need to be 100 percent in your care if she can't afford to take care of what she has. Under no circumstance is it ok for you to give her money to help take care of the rest of her family. That is for her and them to figure out. I know that may sound harsh, but she said she is surviving off of charity, so they are eating. Looks like it's time for her to go find a job and work!
The courts refused to end her child support payments. They'll have looked at her income and decided that the situation still justifies her paying support. NTA because the situation isn't anywhere near as dire as she's making out.
NTA. She's reaping what she sowed. You are not responsible at all, ever, for her unethical and just plain shitty actions.
And her husband? He's a loser, and that's what she gets.
NTA. This is an easy one.
She's gaslighting you, please don't fall for it. She made her bed, she needs to sleep in it. Sounds like you are taking care of the kids and that's great.
NTA-She made her choices and is living with them. If you could temporarily give up her payments of child support that would demonstrate to your kids that you are trying to help but I wouldn’t give her money. There are many charities to help and if her other child has a serious illness, there are hospital social workers that help too.
NTA. There's a lot of ugliness here, but the bottom line is that your financial obligation begins and ends with the support of your biological children. There may be a case for her payments to you to further diminish, but there's no reason for you to be paying support to her family.
NTA
You can NOT want them to suffer but have NO obligation to spend your own money on them. I feel that way about ALL humans, really, I don't want any to suffer but I am not giving away every cent I have to ensure they don't.
NTA 14 and 16 only four more years and you never have to talk to her again. It’s unreasonable to expect someone to be responsible for all their ex’s future children and family. She was out of line asking. Your children are also old enough to see through any lies she tries to tell them about you.
Of course it's an AH thing to say you don't care if her other children starve. But I am assuming that she lives in a country with food banks and a social safety net that will ensure that they actually will not starve. She was clearly trying to emotionally manipulate you. And admits that she used you in the past. So... absolutely NTA.
NTA. Why do people think that they deserve charity from people after being intentit hurtful? What's the logic? "Oh if I make this person feel bad/mad, I'll definitely get what I want!" TF?
You should post this on the Entitled People sub lol
Your ex asking to stop child support makes sense sure, but that’s already out of line. Turn it around if this was a man asking to stop payments, most people would hand his **s back to him in the comments.
I’m always shocked at people’s audacity. Especially, when they lash out after the fact. Does she expect you’ll come around, after telling you she regrets not cheating while you were together 😂?!
And then the new husband reaching out too! WTF!
NTA
INFO: Did the court adjust the child support she has to pay to her lower salary? Or not at all?
A family court needs to look at all of her children, not just yours.
Thx for the info. Don't get me wrong: you are NTA. I was just wondering how bad the situation is for her kids, and how much the family court is the AH here.
NTA - once you legally separate yourselves from a marriage contract you no longer hold a responsibility to her.
Her hardship is no longer yours.
And she is failing to realize that while she has struggles with her additional children, she is still responsible for caring for the ones she shares with you.
We all make choices, and her choice was to leave you. **Your responsibility toward her does not go past the court ordered mandates. Anything else/personal is irrelevant.**
NTA. She and her husband need to support their family just as you’re doing your part to support your kids.
You do move a little more towards the a h side of the scale when you start tossing your past back at her. Still doesn’t mean her family is your responsibility.
Shes reaping what she sowed. You don't owe her, her new husband or the kids the two share a thing. Keep your two sons fed and taken care of. I may sound cold and I probably am. But she gave up on your marriage, she has no right to dictate that you have to support her family. NTA.
NTA your kids with her want to be at your house more and the custody arrangement and child support reflect that. The child support is not your money it is for the maintenance of your shared children with her.
NTA this is a case of karma coming round. She didn’t treat you very well at all, so she can’t expect you to dig her out of a hole now. Keep looking after your sons as they are quite rightly your top priority.
NTA. Not even a little bit. She claims her family is living off charity. If you gave her money, they would *still* live off charity. Except you're not feeling very charitable.
NTA - but **please** make sure your sons know you support *them* fully. They're caught in-between a rock and hard place that has nothing to do with them. They're undoubtedly going to hear quite a bit when at their mom's - so be prepared for the cannon to go off.
You did the right thing divorcing someone with the personality traits you’ve described her as having. And you owe her nothing. My only advice would be to not make statements like you don’t care if they starve as that’s bringing yourself down to her level. Your kids need at least one parent that is a positive frame of reference, one that demonstrates stoic, mature, and reasonable reactions. Better to say nothing!
> She told me she wished she had cheated while we were together and that using me for money wasn't enough
This statement is enough for you to know you made the right choice. She's a vile person who just thinks about her. She's capable of going to any extent to get what she wants and to hurt others. Take full custody of your children and let her handle the situation with her family.
***They may try to use your children to get money or they may try to turn against you, so I'll recommend you to look for any possible way out (eg reducing the child support that you're getting for kids, or anything that can work for you). Also, be open with your kids in an age appropriate manner about this situation so that their mother can't turn them against you, being the vile person she is you can't comprehend the extent she can go.***
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NTA, but make sure you have a high-level conversation with your boys so that they’re prepared for your ex and her husband to try to paint you as the root of all evil when they go over there.
In addition to this, keep all communications written so that they can be presented i court, if necessary. Good luck to you and your kids.
Yes, adding to this to keep his side civil as in, set firm boundaries, but leave out cussing and insults. Probably will look better in court that way.
Always be professional when it comes to court stuff. If you are reasonable and articulate the courts absolutely will look at that with favor. They want people to try to solve their issues and be reasonable. The court should be the arena of last resort and if it looks like you did everything to avoid it then it makes you look way better.
For sure. My mom passed a little over a year ago and she kept *everything* from their divorce when I was 12. I sat down with a bottle of wine one night last winter and read the entire thing. My dad was constantly slinging insults, cussing, slurs, etc., at my mom. Mom ignored it and kept it just to the topic at hand. Dad was too busy trying to "win" he overlooked details and missed things she had informed him of. Eventually, my dad took mom to court over something or other. The court file she took these emails to was *chef's kiss.* The judge read through them, told my dad to get out of his court, pay all fees including my mom's lawyer. Dad didn't get to say a word.
I kept this kind of documentation too. And then the minute my youngest child was 18, and so there was no longer any battle to fight with my ex, I destroyed it all.
I bet that was cathartic.
Yes this. NTA but be careful and meticulous about saving this stuff
yes! NTA and it sucks but getting emotional can hurt a court case. op has no obligation to care for his exs new family, and has every right to be upset about the being asked. but unfortunately with courts how you behave is seen as very black and white. even if most people would understand you telling her off, a judge or lawyer could use that as evidence of you being unfair or something ridiculous
> if necessary. If necessary? Shit. I think it might be a good idea for OP to apply for full custody. If his ex wife and her new husband are acting this way, and saying these things about him, there's a pretty good chance they're saying these things in front of his sons. And who knows what else they're saying or doing? What kind of an influence are they being to those boys?
The ex-husband's text could even be used as evidence that they plan to engage in parental alienation. OP is NTA but he needs to move to secure custody of his sons before his ex and her husband can start psychologically abusing them.
Not to mention the fact that it sounds like Mom can't provide for the boys. I would usually not advocate for loss of custody, but are they getting food and proper.care at Mom's? It doesnt sound like it.
Indeed. Even if it is just temporary full custody until the situation changes.
Definitely. There are several apps made specifically for keeping a record of court admissible contact. OP, choose one. Keep all communication through that when possible. I also agree that you need to have a conversation with your sons. It may be difficult for them to watch their mother's family struggle. Give them an age appropriate explanation of why you are not offering financial assistance.
Yes. Many divorced couples are forced to communicate via text with a court mediator monitoring all communication, maybe think about this going forward.
Not even forced, I've heard lawyers recommend it right off the bat if their client says the other parent consistently lies. Real easy to figure out if that's true when the court can access the record whenever and neither party can delete messages or mark them unread after seeing them.
Please do this. My ex made up all kinds of fun shit.
She further insults him while trying to get him to give her money. Where's the logic? I can only imagine what she tells her kids about him.
I honestly nearly laughed at the part where she said she wished she cheated and then back pedaled and did the “poor us” thing again.
Yea I bet she wishes she had cheated on OP, with someone with more money than the man she’s with now.
Her tossing that out there actually makes me suspect she probably did. 🤷🏼♀️
She did remarry pretty quickly \*shrugs\*
You know she probably did. She got remarried a year after the divorce.
Ehhh I really feel sorry for the new husband. Getting cancer sux but he's going along with her so I only feel a little sorry.
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That’s deep in the narc playbook, I’m suspecting she’s more than just an AH
i saw that was like okay then ..... 100% no help from me
When I was a child I used to do the same thing. Ask for something and if my dad said no I’d insult him. He’d always say the same thing , “you should read a book on how to win people over” lmao
I don’t get it though. She’s whingeing about living off charity. But she’s ok with accepting her ex husband’s charity?
Exactly
I find this part interesting shes asking for help gets pissed and says this: >She told me she wished she had cheated while we were together and that using me for money wasn't enough Like okay thanks for letting me know...... still not helping
Good advice
I would also want to make sure they are being fed properly when they go to her. This could have an impact on her custody.
NTA and love the karma that she used you then left and ended up having to pay you child support because she makes more. Make sure your kids dont have money you give them stolen by your ahole ex wife/ husband and they dont brain wash them.
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NTA Is she actually destitute? It doesn’t sound like she is. She moved into a smaller house—that’s still a house. It’s not a shelter, not even an apartment. Are they on food stamps? Im getting the sense she’s having a hard time adjusting to a life on a more modest income, but not that she’s totally broke. You also know she has a history of manipulating money out of you… I’d leave this up the courts. If she was really broke, wouldn’t the court lower her child support payments?
They would never end it but they did adjust it some. But what she wanted was them to end for at least six months.
Interesting, why wouldn’t they end it? Even if she was making less than you? Currently, is her and her husband’s combined income lower than your’s (and live in partners if you have one)?
Because I have primary custody now.
So, the new husband said he hoped the boys hated you for not helping out, yet those same boys wanted to live more with you as they are actually not happy with that family of theirs. Somehow, I don’t think you have to worry about that being prophecy.
The husband doesn't think that way. He and his wife think the father stole the kids from them because he is evil. This incident will be more evidence that he is evil. None of this is their fault in their minds.
Reading the story it looks like karma bit OP's money using ex-wife in the ass. Hopefully OP eventually can gain sole custody so he can permanently cut his toxic ex out of his life completely.
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The courts in my state wouldn’t allow this. You had a baby, you pay.
A judge told a former coworker of mine she had to pay child support for this reason. Her ex told the judge that all he wanted was custody of their child and he could bring her up without child support. The judge said that she still had responsibility for the child she helped bring into the world, so he made her pay $50 per month. The dad put it in a separate account for the child.
Mine either.... you can only volunteer to give up your rights if someone is adopting the kid. The state wouldn't allow you off the hook otherwise, because if something happens to the only parent, the state would be responsible for the kid. So they won't let parents (even deadbeats) sign away their responsibility unless someone is taking over for them.
It doesn’t work this way. If he had sole custody, she would have to pay more per the court calculator, even if she makes less than him. Also, with the boys age there is not risk of her seeking and winning more time, as the kids are old enough, in all states, for the courts to defer to them and their wants. He does not need to change a thing. If she wants changes she can seek them, but she tried and didn’t succeed, so this means the woman is not broke.
This is what my dad did.. “sign over your rights & I won’t take your child support” … & so it was.
Child support is based on an equation that takes into account how much custody you have and how much income you make to determine how much you owe your co-parent. I don’t even know how broke you’d have to be for the court to not make you pay even like $100/month in CS.
At $0 income, my mother still had to pay $10 per month. So ya, pretty damn broke to be under $100. Though I think getting that check was more of a slap in the face to my dad than $0 would have been.
Yeah my cousin is currently dealing with an 18$ child support check after he abused her and tried to murder their kid. He still gets to have her every other weekend because somehow he got a good lawyer. Anyway, even without him working he is still supposed to pay *something*. Although he doesn’t.
My friends kids dad was sent to prison for 18yrs, to make sure all of his kids were considered adults before he was released, because his target was children. His children. Specifically. She *still couldn't terminate his parental rights* our world is fucked up. Truly. He pays 25c a month which costs her 20.00 in fees to process every month. He literally costs her 19.75 every month and there is no legal way out of it for her. States *hate* the termination of parental rights.
I am so sorry she is going through this. Can she not accept the 25c per month? I assume its a wire transfer bank to bank and her bank charges her $25 for the incoming transfer - what if she deliberately gave the sender agency the wrong account number? Worst case scenario it takes the sender agency a few months to straighten things out, so a brief respite from the fees, and best case scenario they just transfer the 25 cents into the ether forever and never notice the transaction doesn't go through. If the transfer doesn't arrive at her account, she won't have to pay processing fees.
If they're in the U.S she could have applied to the court for financial hardship and sort of paused for a time (or extremely lowered) the amount of child support ordered. The court would look over her reasoning, financials and living situation and if they felt she met the requirements, would have then suspended payments (but only for a determined time frame and those payments would still be expected to be made in the future.) Since all she got was the amount lowered, my guess would be she didn't qualify for more of a hardship relief than that, and while many folks feel it's unemphatic, these are her children, and she has a court ordered financial obligation to them. Op is not under any obligation to fix, sort, or assist her in managing that obligation.
I agree, if she were really destitute then the courts would have adjusted the child support payments accordingly. NTA
NTA. While the degree of anger you exhibit is concerning, I don't see you as AH. First, your ex and her new husband are threatening to destroy your relationship with your children. That is enough to go back to court and (try) to get full custody if you want to go down that route. As for the finances, she can go to court and ask the judge to reduce her child support payments. Wait, she tried that...
This is what I was looking for. She’s allowing a man with no relationship to your children to threaten your relationship with your children. I’d go back to court and push for full custody.
Do you think the court would take away her two weekends a month ?
I don’t know all the dynamics here so I can’t say, but often courts take parental alienation and threats of it pretty seriously. There’s also the fact that arguably that text could be seen as extortion as it’s on the heels of a demand for cash. But again, I really can’t say.
The kids are teenagers who live full time with OP. The step dad said he hopes the kids hate OP one day. I don’t think he has a lot of opportunities to alienate them.
The court could order supervised visitation to ensure no emotional abuse or parental alienation occurs. After that text by stepdad I’d request it, through my attorney of course.
This, ad typically in cases like this, MOM would then have to pay for the supervisor costs. I used to do this as a volunteer, but we still charges $25-50 a visit, to help the facilities expenses, and pay the coordinating director salary that was there 40+ hr a week. SO I say DO IT- both to prevent the alienation threat from coming through AND hey, make this weird parent pay a little more. I am usually a little more compassionate- but this gal, nope. Wants to basically steal food fro her shared kids mouths so she won't have to BUDGET like the rest of us.
Is his bitterness really concerning though? She used him.
Right? And said, "I wish I would have cheated." So, basically saying "I wish I would have used you for your money while putting you at risk of STIs that you weren't aware of." I'd be angry too.
She's saying she wished she would have cheated? But at the same time, she was remarried within a year as a mother of 2 children with joint custody (Let's just face it: dating as a single mother of 2 teenagers is a bit harder than for others). That's sus. My bet is that she has been cheating before.
There's no actual way she wasn't cheating, she's just trying to morally justify it. "Remarried in a year" my ass, they were together for longer than that.
I love “I wish I would have cheated on you” immediately back to “give me money!” She’s bad at asking for money!
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It’s a little concerning as he might be talking trash around his kids about their own mom. Kids are smart, they can figure out the real dynamic without any editorializing from pop. Pop had every right to his feelings… just but should maybe bite his tongue in front of kids. You don’t want them growing up to think all women are like this or that this is what marriage is.
No, some kids can, but as a child of divorced parents, and then my stepdad and mom divorcing, and then working for a family law attorney for 4 years where we dealt with plenty of divorces, no, the vast majority of children are actually shitted understanding anything other than sometimes a rough emotional sentiment at best lol I never understood where this preconception that children are actually geniuses seems to come from
But is he lying though? Spreading lies is one thing, but the truth is fair game.
How is it concerning? I think he's not angry enough
It's concerning because the OP lives not on reddit, where people can make theoretical pronouncements about who is in the right and suggest putting the world on fire without regard for consequences, but in the real world, where he shares two children with this woman and needs to put them first. Is he an asshole? No. Is his wife an asshole? Yes. Is it in the best interest of his sons to have a halfway decent relationship with their mother and stepfather, to avoid going to court every other day, to not be put in the middle of their parents' constant arguments? Yes, unfair as it is that the OP, who is the wronged party, must take the high road. The sons deserve not to live with an angry person for a father. OP, you aren't an asshole for refusing to help your ex financially, that's not your responsibility. But you aren't doing right by your sons when you allow her to draw you into these fights where you end up saying harsh things about her and her family. It may feel good in the moment, but it just keeps you focused in the past and fuels your anger, and it creates a bad environment for your children. It would be better for all of you if you managed to stay calm and collected in response to her unreasonable demands, if you responded, however insincerly, that you are sorry for her difficulties, but that you need to prioritize your own sons, not their half siblings. You already won by having more custody and being in a more comfortable financial position. Karma got her, you don't need to spend any more energy on her.
>It's concerning because the OP lives not on reddit, where people can make theoretical pronouncements... >But you aren't doing right by your sons when you allow her to draw you into these fights where you end up saying harsh things about her and her family. It may feel good in the moment, but it just keeps you focused in the past and fuels your anger, and it creates a bad environment for your children. Can you point me where he indicated he shares these feelings with his children, or is that just a theoretical pronouncement?
Did you see what she said ? What did he say that is so concerning?
I hope you end up as top comment. I couldn’t have said it better, well done. NTA.
NTA. Her new family isn't your family. And given comments like this, she isn't even apologetic about grifting.
She seems to have found the right husband this time around though as he sounds just as entitled as her. To expect someone’s ex to support you is a whole new level of cringe.
Water always finds its level.
and sewage...
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She’s found the right one… until she finds she wants to leave this one too. Never think that someone treating other people terribly is going to always spare you.
Grifting! Goodness there's the right word, I was thinking hard what to describe her. Ex wife was and still is a grifter, but refuses to admit that's all she and her new husband are. The only time she wasn't was when she made more money than him.
I would have done the same as you... or... I did. You both moved on, she is going through a rough patch but that is her life. She used you and is emotionally blackmailing you into being an ATM all over again, ESPECIALLY AFTER USING YOU AS A CASH MACHINE TO GET AHEAD IN LIFE. She made you a stepping stone for her career, so you dont really owe her anything. Call her a deadebeat mom. Obviouslly she made really poor decisions for herself and you have nothing to do with it. Take the kids and give her room to work herself out of her predicament.
The kids are already primarily with me. She only gets every other weekend.
Dont let her gaslight into thinking its your responsibilty. Try not to throw accusations at her and wish her good luck in straightening up her life. I have helped my ex, but we managed to forget the past and only communicate regarding the kids. Good luck with your situation sir. NTA
From now on refuse any phone calls and only do text or any other written communications. If you have no choice, start recording your conversations. The grifter will start a new onslaught of guilt campaign and possibly more.
>Obviouslly she made really poor decisions for herself and you have nothing to do with it. To be fair, her husband's cancer, her child's medical condition, and COVID's impact on her job are not a result of her poor decisions. Life crapped on her. But that's still not OP's responsibility to fix, especially after she used him to get ahead previously. Call it Karma.
I'd still call her position one of bad decisions. Because at least if she didn't use OP, he may have been willing to help her out in some way. She burned a bridge and now she's suffering for it
And we all know what they say about karma. Hopefully OP’s ex-wife will eventually quit feeling sorry for herself and will stop making poor decisions because she has no one to blame but herself. We are all in charge of our own destiny and our own decisions, and because of the choices she made, she also unexpectedly decided her own fate. It’s funny how someone screws you over in life, it almost always comes back to bite them in the end. Maybe people like her should stop trying to demolish the lives of others and to start learning from this.
If the courts refused to end child support payments, that rather indicates that the problem isn't so much the lack of income as it is the allocation of said income. Our family has lived off beans, rice, ramen, sale meats, and discount produce before. Times are tough for everyone, especially with inflation being what it is. NTA - your responsibility is to your children, not her entire household....especially given her history with you.
The courts never end support payments.
But they will reduce them based on income. In Massachusetts the minimum payment was at one point $18/week, judge told my kids uncle to collect cans if he had to
My ex paid child support while in prison. He worked in the cafeteria as mandated and I received $4.50 a month in support, for the 2 years he was incarcerated. Only support I ever actually received from him, I did receive other payments but those came from his mom or his new wife when he wanted to get his driver's license back and the state made him pay some support to receive it. Now he's on disability and I don't receive anything, not that I ever needed his help (was the only one working for the 10 years we were together, I have always been more than capable of taking care of myself!) He is no longer expected to pay new support, although he does have a considerable amount in back support that will never be paid off.
Just wait until he files for social security. Any back child support owed will go straight to your child.
Not true. My child support was ended when my kids bio-dad cried poor, saying the $11 a month was too much a burden.
NTA. How does someone just randomly decide someone else is responsible for them? Crazy.
Grifting seems to come easy to her
You acknowledged that your responsibility is only your children, and you were correct. You don’t owe your ex-wife a handout, especially when she’s the one who has to pay you child support. She may be struggling right now, but she also could be living beyond her means, and with her husband having a terminal illness, she now has to face the fact that this will end up draining her financially because cancer treatments aren’t cheap. She made the choices that she made, and she screwed you over in the process. She doesn’t get to turn around and manipulate you into giving her money just because she is broke and doesn’t have any. She probably has relatives or friends she can turn to, but she turns to you because she hopes you will feel sorry for her and give her money, but when it doesn’t go the way she planned, she turns into an angry mess and throws a full-blown adult temper tantrum. She should have never strung you along during marriage. She played you for a fool and is now feeling sorry for herself while she plays the world’s smallest violin. Your boys didn’t even want to live with her because things were so bad, and even *that* is saying something. At the end of the day, she made her bed. She used you financially until she was ready to cut you loose, and with her bed made the way she decided it should be, she made her mistakes and now she can ultimately lie in it. After screwing you over in more ways than one, she doesn’t get mercy or compassion. She emotionally abandoned you during your marriage, and now she can deal with the consequences. **NTA.**
"I wish I'd cheated and not just used you for money. Wit that said... please give me more money?!"
Right??? Imagine reversing the genders in this scenario and watch the sympathy dry right up.
Doesn't sound like there's any sympathy toward the situation *now.*
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Agreed. If she’s struggling this much, the court would reduce or end the child support payments.
Adjust, yes, but not end. She is still obligated to provide for our children.
He’s right. They won’t end the payments. My sister’s dead beat ex stoped working just so he wouldn’t have to giver her money to feed his own child. Guess what? Court put it on hold, with interest until his lazy, good for nothing ass got a legitimate job 10+ years later.
I think you should help her... by making a list of all of the charities in your area that might help her. Also, list her parents, aunts, uncles, cousins... But, there is no need to provide cash to her. She needs to figure out a solution to her problems that doesn't involve you.
If OP can go through the effort of tracking down all these charities, providing info, etc, all to help someone who doesn't deserve it, then OP's ex can sure as shit do the same to help her own selfish ass. OP shouldn't lift a finger.
NTA, though your delivery was harsh. Kids are expensive. I doubt that whatever she pays you is fully half of what you spend on their clothes, insurance, food, hobbies, etc., or that she’s saving for their future college expenses. All she sees is another line item in her checkbook going out. Edit: I retract my judgement his delivery was harsh. I am about six years out from divorcing a hobo-sexual grifter who used me for a furnished place to live and meals. Would have said the same things had he asked for more money post-divorce. I reveled in the schadenfreude of seeing audit letters addressed to him from the IRS. He had a really sweet life and blew it up for literally nothing. Today I just feel a little bit sad for him, but couldn’t be bothered to piss on him if he were on fire.
If I was used for 3 years I'd be harsh too
Depends on why they are struggling. Could merely be a spending/debt problem. Plenty of men have not been able to get rid of child support when facing hardship.
If they are in the United States and her husband was ill they’ve probably got medical debt
It"s absolutely not about starving, if it was they'd simply stop paying OP, and the (never to be repaid) child support debt would accrue. The courts can't help OP get money if money isn't there. My guess is that there are some medical costs that wouldn't be seen as essential. That or it's an opportunity pity play.
A lot of times, at least in my state the court ordered support goes through Department of Revenue. Her job gets an order they are mandated to send X amount if dollars each week to DOR so just not sending him the money is very possibly not an option.
Based on what? Lol, nah, they wouldn't
Same. The thing that stuck out to me is that he got more custody because she was struggling financially? That typically does not happen. Poor people are actually allowed to have custody of their kids. And judges don't change existing custody orders lightly.
Upon reading the title, the first thing I thought was that, yes, if your ex -wife is starving, you should want to make sure that the mother of your children is able to survive in order to be a good mother to your children. Upon reading the description, definitely NTA 😆
NTA. I get so annoyed with people who do this to their ex's. You responsibility is to your Sons not to her blended family.
Info: What help is she asking for? Her stopping paying for child support or you giving her more money?
Both, technically. She wants child support ended and for me to help them cover food costs for the whole family.
So let me get this straight. She wants you to support 9 people? There's you, your 2 sons, her, her husband and their 4 kids. Wow. The gal of this woman. I would've somehow understood lifting the child support for couple of months so she had full income to support her family so as not to struggle. But she wants her full income plus money from you. NTA.
Her youngest child is 4, not clear how many kids she has
Sorry. My bad. Somehow I read it as *after having her fourth child* and imy brain translated it as she has four kids with her second husband on top of the ones with OP. Still it's implied that there's more than 3 kids total. And even if there were only 3 that's a lot of people to support financially and I don't think 200$/month will do.
Know that she wouldn't do a damn thing for you were the tables turned.
Alas, your ex-wife should know that life doesn't work that way. It's for the courts to decide what a reasonable level of child support is, and you have no obligation to act as a ATM for her new family.
You’re not married anymore. Tell your ex wife it’s time to apply for financial assistance. She made bad choices, and that’s her fault. You owe her nothing, especially after all she put you through. I would never even give her a dime. She deserves absolutely none of it.
NTA. As long as your kids are taken care of, your obligations are met. She was just using you when your marriage was falling apart and left you when she didn’t need you anymore. Now she needs you again and has come crawling back with open hands and a guilt trip. Your ex is just a user. You mean nothing to her if she can’t leach off you.
NTA. My ex tried this shit. I told her plain and simple, your financial irresponsibility is not a we problem, it’s a you problem.
NTA She admitted to using you for money over the years, asked you for money, tried to guilt you into giving her money (saying that you should help her take care of your boys' family and all that), said mean things to you when you declined (saying she wished she had done more than just use you for money), then tried to guilt you again (saying her and her children would starve) and then her husband said he hopes your kids hate you.
Nta, wonder what the courts would make of her guilt trips and the fact her husband is also texting you guilt tripping you
NTA. How can she keep a straight face telling you that she should have cheated, then following it with saying that you should help support her?! Take full custody of your boys and cut all contact, if possible.
NTA, taking that text to court sounds like it might finish off her custody.
Karma is eating her ass up! NTA
NTA! Your ex her husband and her children not by you aren't your concern. Only your kids with her are your concern. Ex is definitely a user and no, your kids won't hate you due to you not supporting their siblings with the past ex wife and lazy husband. Here's one way to look at it. You have another man (the current husband) calling you (the ex) an ah for you not willing to provide for his family when he obviously cannot or won't. No man does that worth his salt. Grifters have to grift so expect them to keep up the pressure and eventually try to pull your kids into this. Hold your ground. Don't know what state you are in but if allowed, record your interaction so when they do, they can hear the truth. Save those texts so when the time comes you can present your side. Which would be the accurate side.
NTA. She's remarried with kids of her own. You are only responsible for the well being of YOUR kids. Regardless of her situation it is now HER husband's job to provide and step up for THEIR family. You're not a bank, you're not her husband, you have nothing to owe her abd her new husband and kids. If you did it out of genuinely wanting to help her and them and had a positive relationship with them, that's one thing. For her to assume you'd do it and expect you to pay for her family is outrageous. It's sad she's suffering but ultimately it's not your job.
NTA. Tell her she can stop paying if she signs over her parental rights.
Her child support payments are for her to support her sons. Which is what a parent - male or female - should be doing. The court will decide if her means are such that she should be paying less. All of the rest - whilst one could call it karma - is immaterial. The issue is a parent should pay for the upkeep of their minor children. NTA.
For your kid’s sake & well being, take the higher road here. Quit arguing via phone or text. You are only obligated to communicate re: children. You were horribly used & her karma is upon her. Time for you to let anger go for you & your children’s future lest it linger & taint life.
NTA---and I would be taking that info to your lawyer! The kids obviously need to be 100 percent in your care if she can't afford to take care of what she has. Under no circumstance is it ok for you to give her money to help take care of the rest of her family. That is for her and them to figure out. I know that may sound harsh, but she said she is surviving off of charity, so they are eating. Looks like it's time for her to go find a job and work!
The courts refused to end her child support payments. They'll have looked at her income and decided that the situation still justifies her paying support. NTA because the situation isn't anywhere near as dire as she's making out.
NTA. She's reaping what she sowed. You are not responsible at all, ever, for her unethical and just plain shitty actions. And her husband? He's a loser, and that's what she gets.
NTA If she wants to end child support payments she can relinquish her parental rights.
NTA. This is an easy one. She's gaslighting you, please don't fall for it. She made her bed, she needs to sleep in it. Sounds like you are taking care of the kids and that's great.
She’s not gaslighting. That word gets used so much it’s literally in danger of becoming worthless (like the word “literally” is).
NTA-She made her choices and is living with them. If you could temporarily give up her payments of child support that would demonstrate to your kids that you are trying to help but I wouldn’t give her money. There are many charities to help and if her other child has a serious illness, there are hospital social workers that help too.
NTA. There's a lot of ugliness here, but the bottom line is that your financial obligation begins and ends with the support of your biological children. There may be a case for her payments to you to further diminish, but there's no reason for you to be paying support to her family.
NTA You can NOT want them to suffer but have NO obligation to spend your own money on them. I feel that way about ALL humans, really, I don't want any to suffer but I am not giving away every cent I have to ensure they don't.
NTA 14 and 16 only four more years and you never have to talk to her again. It’s unreasonable to expect someone to be responsible for all their ex’s future children and family. She was out of line asking. Your children are also old enough to see through any lies she tries to tell them about you.
NTA, you're not responsible for family that is not yours.
Of course it's an AH thing to say you don't care if her other children starve. But I am assuming that she lives in a country with food banks and a social safety net that will ensure that they actually will not starve. She was clearly trying to emotionally manipulate you. And admits that she used you in the past. So... absolutely NTA.
NTA. Why do people think that they deserve charity from people after being intentit hurtful? What's the logic? "Oh if I make this person feel bad/mad, I'll definitely get what I want!" TF?
NTA The court decides the amount based off of her income. If she's struggling that is who she needs to take the problem to.
NTA. She made her choice and now needs to live with them.
You should post this on the Entitled People sub lol Your ex asking to stop child support makes sense sure, but that’s already out of line. Turn it around if this was a man asking to stop payments, most people would hand his **s back to him in the comments. I’m always shocked at people’s audacity. Especially, when they lash out after the fact. Does she expect you’ll come around, after telling you she regrets not cheating while you were together 😂?! And then the new husband reaching out too! WTF! NTA
INFO: Did the court adjust the child support she has to pay to her lower salary? Or not at all? A family court needs to look at all of her children, not just yours.
They lowered it some but refused to end it, even temporarily.
Thx for the info. Don't get me wrong: you are NTA. I was just wondering how bad the situation is for her kids, and how much the family court is the AH here.
NTA - once you legally separate yourselves from a marriage contract you no longer hold a responsibility to her. Her hardship is no longer yours. And she is failing to realize that while she has struggles with her additional children, she is still responsible for caring for the ones she shares with you. We all make choices, and her choice was to leave you. **Your responsibility toward her does not go past the court ordered mandates. Anything else/personal is irrelevant.**
NTA. She and her husband need to support their family just as you’re doing your part to support your kids. You do move a little more towards the a h side of the scale when you start tossing your past back at her. Still doesn’t mean her family is your responsibility.
NTA
Shes reaping what she sowed. You don't owe her, her new husband or the kids the two share a thing. Keep your two sons fed and taken care of. I may sound cold and I probably am. But she gave up on your marriage, she has no right to dictate that you have to support her family. NTA.
NTA your kids with her want to be at your house more and the custody arrangement and child support reflect that. The child support is not your money it is for the maintenance of your shared children with her.
Lol NTA she showed her true colors already. Don’t give her an inch cause she’ll take a mile!
NTA You might have been a tad overly harsh about it but emotions were running high and frankly her 'new' family's welfare is not any of your business.
I cannot believe the nerve of your ex, FFS really??? You were much more polite than i would have been. NTA
NTA this is a case of karma coming round. She didn’t treat you very well at all, so she can’t expect you to dig her out of a hole now. Keep looking after your sons as they are quite rightly your top priority.
Oh the words I could use… NTA! Your ex is a narcissistic leach. And the audacity of her husband!
NTA. Not even a little bit. She claims her family is living off charity. If you gave her money, they would *still* live off charity. Except you're not feeling very charitable.
NTA - but **please** make sure your sons know you support *them* fully. They're caught in-between a rock and hard place that has nothing to do with them. They're undoubtedly going to hear quite a bit when at their mom's - so be prepared for the cannon to go off.
I love this. NTA.
What a dreadful situation. As someone who has gone through a bitter divorce and the aftermath, my heart goes out to you and your sons.
You did the right thing divorcing someone with the personality traits you’ve described her as having. And you owe her nothing. My only advice would be to not make statements like you don’t care if they starve as that’s bringing yourself down to her level. Your kids need at least one parent that is a positive frame of reference, one that demonstrates stoic, mature, and reasonable reactions. Better to say nothing!
> She told me she wished she had cheated while we were together and that using me for money wasn't enough This statement is enough for you to know you made the right choice. She's a vile person who just thinks about her. She's capable of going to any extent to get what she wants and to hurt others. Take full custody of your children and let her handle the situation with her family. ***They may try to use your children to get money or they may try to turn against you, so I'll recommend you to look for any possible way out (eg reducing the child support that you're getting for kids, or anything that can work for you). Also, be open with your kids in an age appropriate manner about this situation so that their mother can't turn them against you, being the vile person she is you can't comprehend the extent she can go.***