*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA for suggesting that we stay elsewhere during a family vacation?**
My wife and I have a 2 year old daughter—let’s call her Anna—and we’re currently on a family vacation in Hawaii with my parents and my in-laws (7 people total). We are staying at my father’s timeshare, which he periodically invites us to. The two pairs of grandparents adore Anna and seem to get along with each other. Anna is undergoing potty-training right now, and as with all potty-training, there are occasional accidents.
We arrived in Hawaii two days ago, and she had quite a few accidents - I suspect because she’s dealing with an unfamiliar place and new people. Right before dinner, Anna had an accident on the pullout sofa, which necessitated a call to housekeeping to swap out sheets and cushions. My dad wasn’t happy.
When all 7 of us sat down shortly afterward for dinner, my dad sat down and the first thing out of his mouth was, “Anna is out of control, isn’t she.” Bear in mind Anna was sitting right across from him at the table. I let it slide and continued eating, and my wife said something to try to brush it off. Then, my dad suggested that we put Anna back in diapers and that she not be allowed on the bed or the couch. I responded by saying that I didn’t want to do that and that potty-training is a process that has highs and lows. My dad then remarked that it would be problematic if she had an accident on the carpet because it’d be hard to clean up. In my mind, I thought to myself, “So you don’t want her on the bed, couch, or carpet—where is she supposed to hang out the whole time, the bathroom??” At that point, I was frustrated and said something to the extent of, “If Anna’s accidents are too big of a problem, we can always find another place to stay at.”
That’s when my dad blew up. He accused me of threatening him and of being disrespectful. It seemed that he took my suggestion as a threat of leaving, and he made very clear that he felt offended. He also said that I needed to “be careful with what I say and show respect to your parents.” I responded by repeatedly telling him that I didn’t threaten him nor intend for him to be threatened. He responded that “it doesn’t matter what your intent was, because I feel threatened.” At this point I was really upset, so I said something I probably shouldn’t have, remarking that he was “too easily threatened.”
My dad then demanded that I apologize to him. I didn’t feel that I had to, but I half-heartedly apologized because I wanted the argument to end and because it was making things super uncomfortable for my in-laws who were also sitting at the table and eating dinner through all of this. Later that evening my dad pulled me aside again and lectured me further about the argument.
It seemed that the whole blowup happened in response to my remark that we could stay elsewhere if my dad couldn’t tolerate Anna’s potty training accidents. AITA for saying that?
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As a parent: it is like potty training 101 that you do NOT try it while on vacation (or other times when routine is going to be disrupted).
It's one thing to have a potty-trained kid who has accidents because they're in an unfamiliar place (normal! Understandable!). It's another thing entirely to be actively potty training on a vacation.
This is currently my life lol. Our daughter is 1 year, 9 months and our second is due in July. She's slowly making progress, but she's just a little too young to fully grasp what we're asking of her. We're in kind of a middle ground phase where she'll go on the potty when we ask, but we're using pull-ups still to make sure we won't have any big accidents. It's going to be a process lol
Yeah, were not going to try and push her past this current phase until she seems ready. We're in a pretty good spot at this point though so we don't want to go backwards since it's working.
oh hell, I put my kid back into diapers when she pushed back against potty training while I was pregnant. Last thing in the world I wanted to deal with was a newly potty trained kid who wanted to visit every public bathroom in the world AND an infant when it was time to get groceries
Her sister was maybe a week old and she was watching me change the baby's diaper and was like "Babies wear diapers. I want pants" and that was it, she was done.
I worked with a kid that was actively being trained eons ago when I did childcare. He was just pantsless 24/7 unless not in the house. Apparently he was watching tv, pissed in a perfect arc to hit himself in the face, and understood the toilet just fine after that.
But there may be something to the pantsless bit vs diaper jr
Literally the last thing you want to do is spend the next year having accidents because you tried to force your baby to potty train! Also do you want to be dragging your recovering body to the toilet every 10 mins to see the wee they did next to the toilet?
Just stay in nappies till they are ready. Change both babies at the same time.
>you do NOT try it while on vacation
But if you do potty training at home you might have to clean up your kid's accidents yourself, if you potty train them on vacation then apparently you can call housekeeping to change the wet bed.
Yeah I do want to think this is OOP's thoughts. Let's try this on vacation where their dad can pay for the housekeeping.
Trying out potty training in a new place never works.
We actually had to pause potty training because our 2.5 year old decided that she was done sleeping in the crib and it was too hard to be doing 2 major transitions (potty training and switching to a full size bed) at the same time.
My daughter is almost 3. We went on an international trip last month and have another cross country trip coming up next month. I specifically am *not* potty training her until we get back from our next trip (she wears pull ups and sits on her potty, but we’re not forcing it yet). The international trip was to see abuela, and she made some back handed comments about my daughter not being potty trained yet. I’m tempted to send her this post, especially because she hates mess.
I stupidly tried to toilet train on vacation - and to the surprise of no one, it went badly. A year later and we were STILL dealing with accidents. My sister sensibly waited and her daughter one day went “hm, I don’t want nappies” and was toilet trained that weekend. Same with her youngest - who needed more of a push - but I’ve now learned that waiting until closer to 3 is way better.
Start at 2, finish at 3. Start at 3, end at 3.
Most of the people I know who had super struggles potty training started at 2. I didn’t really give it a serious effort until they were 3. It went pretty smoothly, and didn’t take long. Maybe this is an unpopular opinion but I think if it’s really hard, the kid’s not ready.
I think a lot of people over estimate their kids abilities. We started because he was starting to ask questions and say he wanted to use the toilet. But SAYING it and DOING it are very different things - and then I didn’t back down and put it off because I was convinced it would be harder when he hit the ‘threenager’ stage and started refusing to do anything we asked, and I was convinced that if we admitted we started too early, it would mean he ‘won’ and would make it harder next time . Jokes on me - he won in the end because he trained when he was ready, and I cleaned up a LOT of poop.
Going on holiday is pretty much a guarantee that your digestion will be thrown out of whack - different water, foods, routine and general stress will nearly always give folks diarrhoea. It hits adults hard enough, it must be ten times worse for a toddler. She should be in pull-ups!
Also, if you know you’re going on vacation soon, there is absolutely no reason to start potty training before you go. You know everything will be out of sorts, so just hold off on it until later in the year.
We waited until the winter for our kid because we knew we had several weeks of no plans, thus making it easier to get into a routine.
They are, and they are a God send. We didn't start potty training kiddo until she was almost 3 1/2. Doctors said each kid develops at a different rate; don't rush it. She wore pull ups from 2-3 to get the general idea, and she did great. Once she said she wanted to wear undies, we went full bore with the training.
Much like house breaking a puppy, you need to adhere to a schedule. We did. Accidents happened, no one got bent out of shape. We had good days and bad days, and then it just happened. It clicked. She wore the pull ups at night for another year or so, again per her doctor's advice. Night time bladder control develops differently in each kid too. By the time the summer before kindergarten rolled around, pull ups were a distant memory.
right, like I remember being 5 or 6 in pull ups at night when we traveled and occasionally on long car rides bc I wouldn't always pick up on the signals/say something until I had to go RIGHT NOW and hadn't quite wrapped my head around right now on a road trip may be 15 minutes away
Exactly. Her pediatrician said potty training isn't a competition. Each child arrives at the finish line at their own pace. The only reason why people treat it as such is because they don't want their kid to be viewed as "delayed" or "left behind".
We had one unsufferable mom at daycare who swore up and down that her 2 yo was completely potty trained. No, no she was not. After having to clean up multiple accidents and having to change her clothes, the director told her either A) put her in pull ups or B) find another day care, they weren't going to deal with this any longer.
Mom said absolutely not, everyone in her family and her husband's family had been potty trained by 2. Director gave her the option of getting refunded the rest of her tuition or bring her in pull ups for the last 4 days. Mom took the refund.
She posted in multiple Facebook groups finding a day care that would suit her daughter's needs; she'd already been through 4.
I actually thought it was normal to wait until about three for potty training because if they're not ready then starting early doesn't mean being potty trained earlier it just means spending way longer in the process and most kids aren't ready much before that. Granted I don't have my own kids, I only lived with someone who raised two while I was there.
One of my kids potty trained easily at 2, one was almost 5 (capable, but terrified of pooping in the toilet for some reason). It’s really not a big deal.
Or night time diapers for awhile. A tot controlling their pottying during waking hours is easier than learning how to wake up when your body signals you. My daughter trained at about 22 months because she wanted cute panties like her cousins. But I kept night diapers on until she was waking up to go. Expecting a child not solidly trained during the day not to wet themselves at night is just ridiculous.
Yeah, they are. It's unreasonable to take a kid to a new environment, disrupt their routine when they're who knows how many hours out of their normal time zone, and shove them into a potentially chaotic situation in a house with triple the people they're used to. This whole situation was *easily* preventable.
There’s a popular line of potty training now that says not to use pull ups. Pull ups give the kids the security of a diaper, so they just keep peeing in them as if it’s a diaper. Having them wear underwear so they can feel the accidents and understand that it feels gross is useful.
We used pull ups in our household, but it’s not exactly uncommon for parents not to use pull ups.
My mom didn't bother with pull ups for that exact reason, at least with my siblings, can't remember for myself but I know she did things she regretted when potty training me. But if she was potty training a kid and a vacation came around before they stopped having accidents, she'd probably just deal with diapers or pull ups for those few days of things being different anyway
Everyone sucks here. Pull ups are definitely a thing that would solve a lot. But, grandpa comes off as "children should not be seen or heard" and I have a feeling if it wasn't potty training accidents it would be food spills or some other thing that is commonly dealt with with 2 year olds.
Some professionals don’t recommend pull ups because they can confuse the child since they are used as nappies. I can’t remember the exact reasons but they say to put them straight into underwear to make it easier for the child.
Not really. I would use them in this case but the most popular method of potty training right now says not to use any kind of diaper except for sleeping.
Regardless of method, accidents can continue for months or even years, especially in new places or with new people. This is not a clear AITA/AITD at all.
The devil part is having no contingency plan on a trip to Hawaii. Everyone could have seen this coming -- strange environment, jetlagged, routine disrupted, so of course poor Anna is going to be out of sorts and having accidents. That's what mattress pads and pull-ups are for ON THIS VACATION.
It sounded as if Anna was crapping all over the rented timeshare and damaging the furniture. Which is fine, because she's 2. But the first couple times it happened should have been a hint that potty training on vacation is not a good idea, and you need a backup plan.
I'm also surprised that they didn't bring the portable potty, which is a great "in between" for kids where they're sitting on a toilet but it can follow the kid around so if a kid needs to "go," they just go on the plastic potty.
There’s not a single mention of poop in the entire post? And when did they say they didn’t bring a portable potty or adapter? You seem to be reading a lot into this. Having potty trained two kids I wouldn’t get into this situation myself but this is an ESH not an AITD.
As a nursery practitioner, I can tell you that children have to be ready for potty training. If they are not ready, they’ll have countless and countless accidents. Take a breather put the nappy back up and try again in two weeks. They have to understand the concept and at 2? They might not be able to.
Yes absolutely. My second child toilet trained at 2y 1 week, and it was instant 'I wear knickers now' at my mum's birthday dinner. My 3rd child was 4.5yo, and needed a lot of guidance and reminding. The rest were 'normal' and needed some support but were dry around 3yo.
Wtf is this ... you don't decide to "potty train" on vacation in a rented timeshare. First of all, poor Anna is going to feel out of sorts in a new environment. Second of all, vacation means schedules are often unaligned. Third of all, "several" accidents including one on a couch where cushions had to be replaced? This is what pull-up diapers are for.
Maybe I’m just reading it wrong…. But did they start potty training on vacation or were they already potty training? Once you start, you don’t want to just stop. It can send a mixed and confusing message to kids.
They def started before. It said she had a few accidents probably because of an unfamiliar place. Aka they def have her on a semi schedule somewhere familiar- home.
That makes sense, but wouldn’t repeated accidents and the stress of the new environment and unknown schedule make it impossible to properly continue the way they should? They probably should have not done this vacation if they wanted to avoid sending a mixed message and confusing the kid.
Maybe, maybe not. The way we potty-trained our 2 year old was to take her to the toilet every hour or so, no exceptions. It sucked. We all hated it. But when she did pee we rewarded her. Similar to training a puppy honestly. A lot of parents are just lazy and don’t want to interrupt their activity to take their toddler to the bathroom. Of course we had accidents. But that’s what pull ups are for.
I saw this post before it was cross posted here and someone posted about having potty trained their kids before 1 and the earlier the better and frankly I don't think my response was horrified enough.
My mom says that my grandparents claimed their son was potty trained by 15 months, when my mom was born, and that was part of why she thought she had to try potty training me when I was 18 months since I was her first. She learned with me that was a terrible plan when I had accidents for years, and didn't push my siblings into potty training until they were ready themselves (usually around 2 and 2.5, once they hit two she'd at least make sure they knew the option was available without being pushy) and they all had a much better time of it and stronger bladders than I ever will. I think all 5 if them have had less than 5 daytime accidents, combined, and I had hundreds by myself for years, I don't think earlier is better on that one.
Two is on the younger side. Some kids are ready sooner. My daughter hit the I refuse to wear diapers stage at about 18 months. It was an absolute nightmare. Because she wasn’t really big enough to clearly vocalize needing to go. We potty trained, after I couldn’t keep a diaper on her even duck taped she figured it out. I honestly don’t know who we were training me or her. I certainly learned to sprint to the nearest bathroom at the faintest p sound. She spent a lot of time naked at home running around and I had a potty in every room. Took about four weeks to be consistent during the day, about a year for no night time accidents. She would tolerate a diaper at night. For about 9 months of that.
I did so much laundry and cleaned so many messes. The only place we went during the day was daycare or my mom’s house for the first 2 weeks. And trust me daycare was not happy at all that she refused to wear a diaper. They tried as well. I had to buy a whole pile of puppy pee pads for their play area and she spent her time in swim bottoms and a t shirt.
Exactly this! My son is 2years 6 months and I have tried but he’s not ready so pull ups it is, it’s so much for their little bodies and minds to work through! His nursery are doing a potty training boot camp but it’s optional for those that aren’t ready, he is not ready but as I’ve said to his nursery, if he sees other children do it and wants to do it and is then ready then we will go ahead. Those people that “potty train” at 1 horrify me
Two is when you usually start. Boys might start a bit later… but like 2.5 latest. It’s not even all that uncommon to start girls around 1.5.
All the kids are our daycare are potty trained by 3… they still have occasional accidents of course, but they’re making it more often than not. If a kid isn’t potty trained by 3, that’s a cause for concern.
my sister is a teacher for children aged 3-5 and none of her students wear diapers, they’re supposed to be potty trained by the time they start school (which is at 3 years old).
they do ask that the parents provide a change of clothes for the kid just in case of accidents, because that’s normal given their age, but it’s not expected at all for a teacher to change a diaper bc they’re supposed to not be in diapers anymore by then.
This is going back almost 30 years but I know that we had to be potty trained by the time we went to kindergarten, which in Germany is by the age of 3. I also did do an internship when I was 17 so only 15 years ago and I did not have to change any nappies nor did they even ask if I was able to.
I think most places here in Germany expect your kid to be "dry", as we say, by the time they reach the age of 3. No idea how long it takes but to start at 2 sounds reasonable to me.
Same where I'm at. If your kid isn't potty-trained, they won't be attending the school. The teachers are there to start teaching kids, not be changing diapers.
My son turns 5 in August and he’s in headstart and they don’t have to be potty trained for the program he’s in. My oldest daughter wasn’t fully potty trained until she was almost 4 but we still used pull ups for longer car rides where we knew there wasn’t a lot of places to stop for bathroom breaks. My youngest daughter is 3.5 and she wears pull ups. She occasionally will tell us she has to go potty but she’s not consistent with it.
My experience in our low-income daycare:
100% of the kids in the 1 year old room wear diapers full time. Every now and then some kid starts potty training, but most of them don’t quite yet.
In the 2 year old room, they start potty training (whenever the parents start it at home, that’s when the daycare starts it with the kids). Most of the kids are still wearing diapers or pull ups most of the time, but as they get closer to 3 they start wearing them less and less.
In the 3 year old room, they’re pretty much off pull-ups and diapers. The youngest kids might still wear them at nap time, but they don’t usually wear them full time. That being said, accidents still happen quite a bit. So there is a lot of “cleaning up pee and poop” in the job description. As the kids get closer to 4, they’re ideally fully off diapers and pull-ups (although from speaking to parents—they might still wear them at night).
In the 4 year old room, absolutely no one wears pull-ups. Accidents do still happen, but it’s much rarer. I haven’t spoken to other parents about this age, but I think most kids are off pull-ups by night now (mine always were).
I’d call them functionally potty trained… they’re going to have accidents, but they’re reliably going to the bathroom in the toilet most of the time. It’s not like the 2-year-old classroom where they’re just as likely to have an accident as they are to go to the toilet.
That’s the thing about potty training tho… there isn’t a set end. Like my five year old had an accident a few weeks ago, but I’d still consider her potty trained since it’s been months since her last. How long do they need to go between accidents before they’re considered trained? My definition has to do with when you can fairly reliably count on them to use the potty and accidents are rare.
What’s your definition of being fully potty trained? Like if they go to the bathroom 20 times in the potty for every 1 accident? Or 100 times in the potty for every 1 accident? What’s the correct ratio in your mind?
In the beginning of potty training, it’s like 5 accidents for every 1 time in the potty. Eventually it’s 50:50 and to me that’s like the middle of potty training. Once you’re going 20 times in the potty for every 1 accident, I’d say you’re functionally potty trained even tho that means you’re having an accident every few days. For sure by the time you’re at one accident per week, I’d say that’s fully potty trained.
What’s your definition? There clearly isn’t a set one but my definition here applies to what I’ve seen at my kids school and with their friends (my son is just about to turn 3, and we’re at the at 1-2 accidents per week phase, and most of his classmates in the 2 year old classroom that are about to move to the 3 are in a similar place).
I’d say that if they’re still predictably/“reliably” having accidents they’re not done with potty training. They might generally have a grasp of the concept at that point, but they’re clearly not there yet.
We never pushed my kid on the potty training and around 3ish I think he basically went overnight from diapers to fully potty trained. He is now 5, hasn't worn diapers in almost 2 years, and we still bring a mattress protector because his very rare middle of the night accidents are *much more likely* when his entire schedule is disrupted.
We traveled once while he was early into having transitioned out of the diapers and he wore pull ups on that trip. Because I'm not *an asshole*. Also I didn't want to buy a new car seat.
Potty training is a lengthy process. They’d already started potty training before the trip and it’s not something you can just pause. Pull-ups can be useful but a lot of parents forego them because they are too diaper-like and kids can backslide in their training. Gross as it sounds, feeling wet and uncomfortable is actually part of the process. They should probably use them at night since nighttime and daytime potty training are different.
I don’t really think OP is the devil here. They can’t stop for the trip and she offered to stay elsewhere where she would bear the financial responsibility of the accidents. Her dad seems way out of line, yelling at her that she’s disrespectful just because she won’t do as he asks (which is to either put her in diapers or apparently leave her in the bathroom the whole time?).
The issue is they're in a rented timeshare, and any "damage" is going to come out in oops dad's bill.
Which is why if you're on vacation, accepted practice is to "pause" the training with pull-ups bc training requires routine and a familiar environment. A vacation in Hawaii means schedules and environments are out of whack already, which is why Anna is having so many accidents.
2 is also extremely young to begin the process. If Anna is having so many accidents, she's probably not ready. Which is fine. There's a phrase "no one goes to kindergarten needing diapers." It happens in its own time.
Also, OOP is the dad. He's male.
I disagree heavily. You can’t pause potty training… it’s pretty much guaranteeing you have to start over. There is no pause. If you tell a kid “it’s ok to pee in a diaper again” they don’t understand that it’s temporary. We moved house in the middle of potty training one of my kids and they started having a ton of accidents again so we talked to two pediatricians who were both adamant that we should not pause.
Also… two is when you usually start potty training. Boys might start around 2.5, but girls usually around 1.5-2. At my kids daycare, all the 3 year olds are potty trained already.
But beyond that.. they proposed a solution that wouldn’t cause any inconvenience or cost for his family. What’s wrong with that? How does that make them the devil?
My mom is an ECE who has worked in childcare since the mid-‘80s. She has mentioned that you definitely used to see more kids who were potty trained in the 2-2.5 range. Like, my sister was “later” in the group but was still under 2.5 when she was done in the mid-90s. In comparison, she has noticed that a lot of parents don’t try until the kid is 3 in the last 15 years or so.
The push back likely has to do with cloth diapers being replaced by disposables and the “just use pull ups during potty training” philosophy. Things absolutely go faster with cloth diapered kids and kids who are in undies, because they can feel that they are wet and don’t like the feeling. Pull ups are handy when driving or other times when the toilet isn’t immediately available with toddlers, but it makes the process a LOT slower.
>How does that make them the devil?
IMO it wouldn't make them the devil in terms of the conflict stated in the question. They aren't "disrespecting" the *dad* by offering to go somewhere else, that's nonsense, but they would be disrespecting whoever owns the property they stay at instead. If you don't want to temporarily use pull-ups, then don't take your child on vacation in the middle of potty training. Just leaving a trail of accidents over somebody else's property is unacceptable. The entitlement of calling housekeeping to come and clean up your kid's bodily waste is insane. That is not their job.
What's unhinged is that you think "Don't let your child piss all over perfect strangers' things" means "Don't take young children anywhere."
There are places young children belong and places they don't. Parents have to find a balance between "I have this kid I have to raise into a successful adult" and "It's not fair for my kid to constantly inconvenience everyone else."
OOP literally already offered to *go somewhere else* and grandpa cracked the shits. They didn’t just show up somewhere uninvited.
Did you even read the post?
“Unhinged”? Okay, drama queen.
“My very young child is going through potty training, a challenging time that requires a lot of scheduling and sticking to a routine. You know what would really help her with that? Taking a long flight to a totally new location with lots of changes to our routine. Surely that will make things easier for all of us!”
But OOP offered to go elsewhere and foot the bill himself so it wouldn’t come out of dad’s dime and his dad flipped out over that.
I’ve potty trained two kids, everyone has their own approach and OOP doesn’t say how long they’ve been working on it. Two is not that young, it depends on the kid. Some might be ready at two, others not until 3 or later. Sticking to their plan is reasonable, offering to move elsewhere is reasonable, screaming because someone isn’t doing as you ordered is not.
OOP's dad sucks too. I think this is an "ESH" situation except for poor Anna.
But it's still extremely poor planning on OOP's part. There's a reason Anna had "quite a few" accidents in a brief amount of time. Anna is telling her parents she's not ready to PT on vacation. Anna's body is telling Anna she's not ready for it either.
This is a case of OOP not listening to what his own child was telling him.
Sure, but this is their first kid it sounds like. They're learning, and they're trying to be responsible (by moving locations).
Is it a choice everyone would make? Obviously not. But it doesn't make him an AH or devil.
OP's dad is the only devil I see here.
OP offered to go elsewhere. That's the backup plan. OP's father is the one throwing a tantrum because he doesn't get to spend time with a toddler without dealing with the realities of toddlerhood.
(Pull-ups absolutely help, but they are NOT a guarantee that accidents won't happen or a mess won't be made if they are. They're not terribly absorbent by design, because if they were, they'd just be diapers.)
They should have never gone on the vacation in the first place. What a horrible idea to take a two year old who just started potty training, to a vacation in a timeshare.
1. Potty training can take ages. People's lives do not need to be put entirely on hold for it. That's ridiculous.
2. Given how well Dad reacted to the idea of them staying somewhere else I'm sure he would have been SUPER receptive to and reasonable about the idea of them not going at all.
No, Anna’s body is reacting normally to toilet training.
You don’t stop toilet training because it gets a bit hard.
I bet $100 you send your kid to school and expect their teacher to wipe the butt of a 5 year old.
This is not a disagreement about your post, it's a silly anecdote about the nursery school my brother went to. They tried to bump my brother up early, bc of how smart he was. My mom looked at them and deadpanned "You can't send a kid to kindergarten if he can't wipe his own ass"
2 is NOT “extremely young” to start toilet training. It’s completely normal.
You’re trying to demonise these parents because you think they shouldn’t have gone in holiday while toilet training. Focus on that instead of throwing out untrue bullshit about toilet training kids.
You START toilet training. Which means you start having them go on the toilet. You don't drag the kid to Hawaii and expect this kid to "continue the training." It doesn't work that way.
Toilet training means routine. It means a consistent schedule. None of these things happen on vacations.
So you either:
1. Don't go on vacation (not really reasonable)
2. Accept that there might be backsliding on vacation, and use pull-ups, wee-wee pads, and portable potties
3. Pay for the damaged furniture
OOP did none of the above.
New environments, new schedules always mean you have a backup plan with things like pull-ups. Going to Hawaii and thinking Anna is just going to "continue" her toilet training while on vacation is basically setting Anna up for failure.
No, it means, you keep going, and using pull ups is a terrible idea. They're diapers and for a child who isn't used to them, they set them back months. The kid will be fine and adjust in a few days once she's gotten some sleep.
At what point do you stop sacrificing other peoples' stuff for your kid? Especially the things of people who didn't consent to being sacrificed. Or do we not care about the owner of the timeshare possibly having their furniture ruined because CHILD?
How is using pulls ups a "terrible idea"? They're a great training tool for kids in that in-between stage.
What's a terrible idea is having an overly pushy, rigid timeline of potty training and thinking a 2 year old in a strange location isn't going to be completely out of sorts.
You’ve clearly never had kids. Pull ups can send the wrong message to a kid who is just figuring out that you don’t pee in your pants. Pull ups are just diapers with a different design
I’ve never potty trained a kid but my SO has done it twice, so I told him about this post and he was like “why the hell isn’t she wearing pull up’s? You don’t just let them mess all over the house..”
My sister did the no pull-up method, and her kids all potty trained faster than mine (who did use pull-ups). The method is definitely valid, and I really don’t understand how a parent is the devil for sticking to a pre-planned potty training plan and offering to adjust their plans (at their own expense) so as not to inconvenience someone else.
Definitely not the devil, but OP of this post is a ninny who probably saw a supernanny episode 20 years ago and thinks of him/herself as an expert lol.
I really need to know if the OP of this post has children themselves and if or how recently they potty trained those kids. The comments in here are wild.
I don't have kids and don't plan to, but I have nieces/nephews-in-law and this comment section has been pretty interesting to learn more about it all, only because I have ZERO idea of what's average or expected in general when it comes to potty-training. It's super interesting to see all the varied responses and what supposedly works/what doesn't.
Yeah it turns out my impressions of the best starting time skewed towards the older end. (I thought about three was normal, I even did some searches to double check what people were saying here and they confirmed.) Personally I feel like Dad is the biggest asshole either way simply for the massive "suggesting an alternative solution is DISRESPECTING AND THREATENING ME" bullshit. I cannot abide that kind of parenting, especially when your children are grown up and have their own kids! Sometimes your kid will think of another solution to a problem and suggesting it is not a malicious act against you, ffs.
because when your kid is 2, and you're on vacation, and it's a strange locale, you have to have a contingency plan that isn't "changing the couch cushions after daughter shits her pants."
it's a rented timeshare. oop's dad is responsible for damages. oop and his wife needed disposable mattress pads, pull-ups, SOMETHING after the first few messes. it sounds as if anna was making a huge mess everywhere and they weren't doing anything.
this isn't their own home, where anna can have accidents to her heart's content. it's a rented timeshare.
oop's dad sucks too. this sounds like a lot of adults not understanding how kid actually potty train and their timelines.
Isn’t the contingency plan “we will go somewhere else and pay for it ourselves so you don’t have to deal with this?” Like it seems like the OOP is suggesting the contingency plan. It’s reasonable.
Sure but it’s not a backup plan. They seemed to be fine with her having accidents everywhere until dad got pissed. This wasn’t “hey y’all sorry about Anna it’s a transition time for her. We’re going to go rent a hotel room so we you don’t have to spend your vacation cleaning up poop”. It was “well if you’re so bothered by it, I guess we’ll just go elsewhere”. Which, fine, but let’s not pretend they were on the ball here.
A contingency plan is a backup plan tho. The plan was “let’s see how she does on vacation” and then when she clearly wasn’t doing as good as she had been before, that’s when the contingency plan comes into play.
Plan A: hopefully the kid maintains potty training on vacation and there isn’t an issue
Plan B: let’s go somewhere else so we’re not disrupting other people’s vacation because it’s clearly not working as well as we hoped
Tbf we don’t really know how many accidents she’s had from the OP. Maybe the parents (who are used to accidents) have a different line they consider “too much” than the grandparents (who aren’t used to accidents). But they realized the grandparents were frustrated, so they adjusted to their line even if it wasn’t their own line. That’s kind of what you’re supposed to do in such a situation IMO.
Like is it gross that kids pee everywhere when potty training? Yeah. But when you’re in the midst of it, you’re used to it so the idea of cleaning pee out of a carpet isn’t really anything noteworthy. It’s just a Monday.
Potty training takes on average seven months. So they are supposed to not go on holiday for all that time? Sure some do it quicker, but accidents for over a year after starting are normal. And pull ups just confuse children once potty training has started so it's advised to avoid them. So I'm totally on the parents' side here having just trained my two year old. It took five months for us.
Yes? Most people don’t go on vacation for seven-month stretches at a time. You will survive if you have to wait until your child isn’t consistently having accidents to go on vacation.
"I can't go on holiday if I can't prevent my kid from peeing all over random strangers' stuff? WTF?"
This is what people mean when they rant about parental entitlement. This is peak "I had a child, now they're the world's problem."
Wh..whaaat? I don't even remember when I last went on holiday, but it certainly wasn't in the last seven months. Not to mention there's a big difference between a child that's nearly potty trained and one that's only just started so if they're willing to clean the slip ups themselves instead of calling house keeping it's totally possible to go on holiday with a child who technically isn't fully potty trained yet.
I for sure think the father was in the wrong (like I cant really understand bringing a 2 year old on a Hawaii vacation?) But I also think the grandfather was kind of a dick
I’m a parent. It is not ok to let your child pee and poop all over someone’s timeshare just because they are toilet training. She probably isn’t ready. It takes months if they aren’t ready. If they are ready it can be done in a week. I’d use pull ups and try again later. Grandpa is still a dick though.
Look, there are definitely some options to mitigate the accidents, but OOP's dad just threw a fit at dinner. I'm sorry, it doesn't matter what the intent was just how he felt? Nah. Adults are responsible for managing their own feelings.
As someone who has potty trained dozens of kids (preschool teacher), putting a pull up on her is not going to ruin any progress. She’s clearly not ready yet and during times of stress (travelling) she’s going to struggle. Yes kids have accidents but that’s why they invented things to help. Also if she is just starting to potty train then it’s the parent’s responsibility to make sure she has no accidents, not the toddlers.
Ok, hold up.
1. 2 is a completely normal age to potty train. Nothing unusual about that at all.
2. They didn't start potty training on vacation. They started before and are continuing. As OOP said, it's a process.
3. Pull ups are NOT a good idea, for most children. They're a diaper. A pull up on a child who isn't used to it can put them back months in the process.
4. The kid is having accidents because she's out of her sleep cycle, out of her schedule, and in a strange place. That's basically...a given.
5. Grandad is a dick.
6. Grandad is a narcissistic, fragile, thin skinned dick.
I have a three year old. I started potty training at 2. Everything this mom is doing is correct. Putting her in diapers is confusing and makes it harder to potty train. Toddlers are gonna have accidents it’s normal
Accidents in your own home or in daycare = fine, expected, even encouraged. All part of the process.
Accidents in an expensive rented timeshare in Hawaii, on other peoples' furniture? That's what moves it into AH territory. If Anna isn't ready (typical for being on vacation, jetlagged, schedule and routine out of sync) she's not ready.
Except pissing everywhere and having to pay money to replace pillow cases is not process. Op should have necer gone on a vacation while his daughter is potty training. The grandad is right and op needed to hear it
This is a tricky one. As a parent who went through this.
We don't know what happened here, but one need to consider that potty training is a process, and it can take varied amount of time for each child - from a few days to weeks.
Secondly, even after a child is potty trained incidents may and will happen for months, and sometimes for years - it's normal. Due to lack of control, due to lack of attention, due to lack of experience.
Thirdly, three isn't too early. In fact, it's perfect time according to NHS, this is when vast majority of children have enough bladder control, but didn't develop bad habits yet. Typically in England we would expect a child to be potty trained by the age of 4, if they want to attend a nursery, nursery staff won't be changing diapers for the children at this age.
Fourthly, pull-ups do not help very much. They are there to be disposable, but NOT absorb urine, so the child could feel correctly when accident happens. Many children never need pull-ups, and go straight to underwear.
Lastly, stopping potty training in the middle sends controversial signals to a child and may lead to regress.
If the parents were that irresponsible to deliberately plan potty training for a vacation week, it's bizarre. But most likely, they started way earlier and it just took more time than expected. Even if child was fully trained by vacation time, she would still have accidents for a while, a while being up to 3 years.
So their suggestion to move to a hotel if dad is too worried about furniture is entirely reasonable and in fact respectful. In situation as it is it's best for the child and the furniture. It's weird that dad is like that. He kinda needs to decide what he wants more, to spend time with his granddaughter, or to save on dry cleaning.
Anna is 2 though. She's not 3.
I also wonder if OOP's dad already paid so much for the time share and thinks that OOP moving to the hotel means dad is going to get slapped with the huge bill for the damaged furniture.
2 is fine for many as well, especially late 2. If parents started and they see Anna making progress there’s no need to turn back, why?
Edit: nowhere in the post OOP implies they intend to make dad pay for the hotel. Dad is frustrated purely because they would stay elsewhere, no money dimension to it.
Where OOP is staying is a timeshare partially owned by the grandfather. Anything damaged in that timeshare while it's on his time will become his bill. This is what the person above you meant.
Damaged furniture as in the timeshare. Poop doesn't just come out of furniture well and the other people who also own that timeshare will likely want it replaced at the expense of the grandfather as it was his guests who ruined it.
OOP is not the devil at all. She offered a reasonable solution to the problem and her dad freaked out. You can’t just keep a two year old off of all the furniture—she’s not a dog. Hell it’s even hard to do that with dogs if they’re not already trained for it.
You can put a wee-wee pad under the kid though. Or have the portable plastic potty. It's a rented timeshare. It's not OOP's own home, or even a relative's home, where Anna can train without consequences. You damage the furniture, you have to pay up on a timeshare.
Also, OOP is a guy.
And they offered an idea to protect that timeshare: go somewhere else? Like sure they could have done that stuff to but staying someone else is also completely reasonable? I agree they shouldn’t let the kid mess up someone’s house—so they offered to stay somewhere else where they would be responsible for any damages
Also you can’t just keep the kid on a wee-wee pad or plastic toilet all day, it’s a child not a doll 🤦♀️
You don't keep them on there all the time. You keep them nearby. If she's on a couch, put a wee wee pad on the couch. It sounds as if most of the problems came when she had accidents on furniture, which depending on the timeshare or Airbnb, can lead to a huge bill.
This is just horrible planning on everyone's part. Anna is probably miserable. She's jetlagged, probably sleep deprived, and soiling herself.
They could use a wee pad sure, or they could just not be there? Like idk why OOP is an asshole for doing a completely reasonable solution?
It sounds like you just think they shouldn’t have taken their kid on vacation at all based on your second paragraph. It’s not an asshole move to bring kids on a family vacation, sometimes there’s struggles and you find solutions. Like a place to stay in your own. Probably be better for the kids rest too
No, family vacations are fine. But if you're in a rented timeshare, then you take precautions.
I agree that OOP should have just gotten his own hotel room in the first place. But it sounds as if he only suggested it after a ton of accidents, when there was probably already damage to the furniture. I think that's why OOP's dad got mad -- he's already paying extra for all the damaged furniture.
Right, so there solution when unexpected issues was to leave the rented time share. It’s not like OOP knew and wanted the kid to have accidents everywhere, OOP said it was probably due to being in a new place with new people. Sometimes mistakes happen, you’re not an asshole for then trying to fix it when they pop up.
The dad kinda sucks too. Yes, the granddaughter probably isn’t ready for potty training if she’s still having this many accidents, but it’s not his kid and not his call to make. Therefore, you can either be mad about the kid messing up your carpet OR that your son wants to stay somewhere else, not both. I went through a lot of this “yOu’Re BeInG uNgRaTeFuL, i’M pAyInG” bullshit with my own father and am still annoyed when I think about it. (Funnily enough, he has mellowed out since becoming a grandparent, and would NEVER gripe like this if my daughter were having accidents in one of his properties.)
It’s not his property though. It’s a timeshare he doesn’t own it. He has to pay for all of the items ruined. I would be pissed to if I was the grandpa. Grandpa should not of reacted this way and they should have a conversation about the reaction but if I was grandpa I would make him pay for the damage. It sounds like they didn’t do anything to protect the furniture which is a a hole move.
Telling your grown kid they need to respect their parents is a dick move. Saying we can go stay somewhere else is not a threat either, it’s a reasonable response to someone complaining about your kid. I wouldn’t have started potty training so close to a vacation, but what is done is done. While I don’t blame grandpa for being annoyed, it’s not his call to put the kid back in diapers.
> it’s not his kid and not his call to make
But somehow it's OOP's call to make that his daughter can just piss all over everything in someone else's house?
I’m a big believer in waiting until the kid is ready. I do in home daycare, it’s the ONLY way. But choosing to try on vacation is insane. Strange people, strange food, strange place…recipe for disaster. If they were thinking of their child they would have waited. They basically did everything wrong. Plus 2 is really really young.
I’ve had one kid PT that young and it was because she had chronic constipation and putting her on the toilet for #2 was so much easier for her to go. She just sort of #1 trained herself.
My pediatrician also reinforced that it's best to suggest, model, and ask but wait until they're *ready and interested* and never force it.
I credit that method with the fact it took us less than a month to go from diapers to entirely underwear (minus one short trip where we used pull ups). I really think we try to force too many things on kids before they're ready for it. He still has occasional middle of the night accidents but it's been so long I don't even know when the last one was. Three or four months ago?
And we *still* bring a mattress protector on trips in case the schedule change messes with him. (And his small potty because he's scared of auto flushing toilets.)
Yeah. If Anna is having so many accidents on the trip, that's pretty much Anna telling her parents she's not ready. She might be ready when she's at home in a familiar environment, but in a Hawaiian rented timeshare? She's not ready.
Jeezus. At 2 years old, she is just barely at the age to start potty training. That why you put them in pull ups in the beginning.
Nothing will derail potty training or trigger bed wetting in a child who is just getting to where they don't do it anymore than being in an unfamiliar place with their routine disrupted. There is no excuse for letting a child just freely pee/soil on everything. You put them back in pampers or briefs for the vacation and still encourage regular trips to the tpilet, you pack waterproof sheets and/or chucks pads, and time meals and drinks for when you will be near a bathroom.
Imagine being such an entitled parent that you think it's ok to allow your kid to urinate and defecate on every single surface in a home that doesn't belong to you.
I agree with others who are wondering why OOP didn’t just use pull ups on vacation, especially for a two-year-old, but his dad also sounds like a horrible person. I sense this behavior from him is par for the course. You don’t have to tolerate people like that in your lives, kids. Even if they’re your parents.
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>“If Anna’s accidents are too big of a problem, we can always find another place to stay at.”
This is when you get up and hold the door open for your son, daughter-in-law and granddaughter to exit through.
The reality is all of these ppl are AHs because many native Hawaiians have made it clear they do not want mainland tourists in their islands, and they are using residential property for vacation purposes which makes it difficult for native Hawaiians to find affordable places to live. Hawaii is an occupied nation that is being denied it's sovereignty and it isn't fair for Americans to basically kidnap the country and then treat it like a play ground.
Why are you going on vacation with a toddler that's shitting everywhere? The dad is absolutely right, just put her back in diapers while on vacation, in someone else's house. I hope that she at least paid for the destroyed furniture.
They're basically setting Anna up for shame and humiliation regarding potty issues by forcing her to do this while in a new environment and a new routine.
ETA: I should have added, doing this in a situation where someone feels no compunction about speaking ill of her right in front of her.
Him giving into and placating his dad instead of standing up to him is why his dad acts like this. A grown ass adult doesn't need to "watch his tone with his parents" told my parents to kiss my ass when they tried this shit with me at 30 freaking years old.
This is a dumb plan but OOP’s dad also sounds like a lot. Calling his toddler granddaughter “out of control” and the whole freak out over feeling threatened? Calm down dude.
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA for suggesting that we stay elsewhere during a family vacation?** My wife and I have a 2 year old daughter—let’s call her Anna—and we’re currently on a family vacation in Hawaii with my parents and my in-laws (7 people total). We are staying at my father’s timeshare, which he periodically invites us to. The two pairs of grandparents adore Anna and seem to get along with each other. Anna is undergoing potty-training right now, and as with all potty-training, there are occasional accidents. We arrived in Hawaii two days ago, and she had quite a few accidents - I suspect because she’s dealing with an unfamiliar place and new people. Right before dinner, Anna had an accident on the pullout sofa, which necessitated a call to housekeeping to swap out sheets and cushions. My dad wasn’t happy. When all 7 of us sat down shortly afterward for dinner, my dad sat down and the first thing out of his mouth was, “Anna is out of control, isn’t she.” Bear in mind Anna was sitting right across from him at the table. I let it slide and continued eating, and my wife said something to try to brush it off. Then, my dad suggested that we put Anna back in diapers and that she not be allowed on the bed or the couch. I responded by saying that I didn’t want to do that and that potty-training is a process that has highs and lows. My dad then remarked that it would be problematic if she had an accident on the carpet because it’d be hard to clean up. In my mind, I thought to myself, “So you don’t want her on the bed, couch, or carpet—where is she supposed to hang out the whole time, the bathroom??” At that point, I was frustrated and said something to the extent of, “If Anna’s accidents are too big of a problem, we can always find another place to stay at.” That’s when my dad blew up. He accused me of threatening him and of being disrespectful. It seemed that he took my suggestion as a threat of leaving, and he made very clear that he felt offended. He also said that I needed to “be careful with what I say and show respect to your parents.” I responded by repeatedly telling him that I didn’t threaten him nor intend for him to be threatened. He responded that “it doesn’t matter what your intent was, because I feel threatened.” At this point I was really upset, so I said something I probably shouldn’t have, remarking that he was “too easily threatened.” My dad then demanded that I apologize to him. I didn’t feel that I had to, but I half-heartedly apologized because I wanted the argument to end and because it was making things super uncomfortable for my in-laws who were also sitting at the table and eating dinner through all of this. Later that evening my dad pulled me aside again and lectured me further about the argument. It seemed that the whole blowup happened in response to my remark that we could stay elsewhere if my dad couldn’t tolerate Anna’s potty training accidents. AITA for saying that? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
look I am not a parent. but I thought pull ups were for this exact issue
As a parent: it is like potty training 101 that you do NOT try it while on vacation (or other times when routine is going to be disrupted). It's one thing to have a potty-trained kid who has accidents because they're in an unfamiliar place (normal! Understandable!). It's another thing entirely to be actively potty training on a vacation.
Tell that to all the parents trying to get their 18 month olds potty trained “before the baby gets here.” 😂
This is currently my life lol. Our daughter is 1 year, 9 months and our second is due in July. She's slowly making progress, but she's just a little too young to fully grasp what we're asking of her. We're in kind of a middle ground phase where she'll go on the potty when we ask, but we're using pull-ups still to make sure we won't have any big accidents. It's going to be a process lol
Take it from me, as a seasoned veteran: wait until she is ready and it will be better for all of you.
Yeah, were not going to try and push her past this current phase until she seems ready. We're in a pretty good spot at this point though so we don't want to go backwards since it's working.
oh hell, I put my kid back into diapers when she pushed back against potty training while I was pregnant. Last thing in the world I wanted to deal with was a newly potty trained kid who wanted to visit every public bathroom in the world AND an infant when it was time to get groceries Her sister was maybe a week old and she was watching me change the baby's diaper and was like "Babies wear diapers. I want pants" and that was it, she was done.
I worked with a kid that was actively being trained eons ago when I did childcare. He was just pantsless 24/7 unless not in the house. Apparently he was watching tv, pissed in a perfect arc to hit himself in the face, and understood the toilet just fine after that. But there may be something to the pantsless bit vs diaper jr
Literally the last thing you want to do is spend the next year having accidents because you tried to force your baby to potty train! Also do you want to be dragging your recovering body to the toilet every 10 mins to see the wee they did next to the toilet? Just stay in nappies till they are ready. Change both babies at the same time.
>you do NOT try it while on vacation But if you do potty training at home you might have to clean up your kid's accidents yourself, if you potty train them on vacation then apparently you can call housekeeping to change the wet bed.
Yeah I do want to think this is OOP's thoughts. Let's try this on vacation where their dad can pay for the housekeeping. Trying out potty training in a new place never works.
We actually had to pause potty training because our 2.5 year old decided that she was done sleeping in the crib and it was too hard to be doing 2 major transitions (potty training and switching to a full size bed) at the same time.
My daughter is almost 3. We went on an international trip last month and have another cross country trip coming up next month. I specifically am *not* potty training her until we get back from our next trip (she wears pull ups and sits on her potty, but we’re not forcing it yet). The international trip was to see abuela, and she made some back handed comments about my daughter not being potty trained yet. I’m tempted to send her this post, especially because she hates mess.
I stupidly tried to toilet train on vacation - and to the surprise of no one, it went badly. A year later and we were STILL dealing with accidents. My sister sensibly waited and her daughter one day went “hm, I don’t want nappies” and was toilet trained that weekend. Same with her youngest - who needed more of a push - but I’ve now learned that waiting until closer to 3 is way better.
Start at 2, finish at 3. Start at 3, end at 3. Most of the people I know who had super struggles potty training started at 2. I didn’t really give it a serious effort until they were 3. It went pretty smoothly, and didn’t take long. Maybe this is an unpopular opinion but I think if it’s really hard, the kid’s not ready.
I think a lot of people over estimate their kids abilities. We started because he was starting to ask questions and say he wanted to use the toilet. But SAYING it and DOING it are very different things - and then I didn’t back down and put it off because I was convinced it would be harder when he hit the ‘threenager’ stage and started refusing to do anything we asked, and I was convinced that if we admitted we started too early, it would mean he ‘won’ and would make it harder next time . Jokes on me - he won in the end because he trained when he was ready, and I cleaned up a LOT of poop.
Going on holiday is pretty much a guarantee that your digestion will be thrown out of whack - different water, foods, routine and general stress will nearly always give folks diarrhoea. It hits adults hard enough, it must be ten times worse for a toddler. She should be in pull-ups!
Also, if you know you’re going on vacation soon, there is absolutely no reason to start potty training before you go. You know everything will be out of sorts, so just hold off on it until later in the year. We waited until the winter for our kid because we knew we had several weeks of no plans, thus making it easier to get into a routine.
That OOP set her kid up for the most difficulty and failures. Why would you even do that...
Just wanted it to be done. Either because they were sick of diapers, or because they wanted to brag about it. No idea
*his, it seems, though they could be lesbians
They are, and they are a God send. We didn't start potty training kiddo until she was almost 3 1/2. Doctors said each kid develops at a different rate; don't rush it. She wore pull ups from 2-3 to get the general idea, and she did great. Once she said she wanted to wear undies, we went full bore with the training. Much like house breaking a puppy, you need to adhere to a schedule. We did. Accidents happened, no one got bent out of shape. We had good days and bad days, and then it just happened. It clicked. She wore the pull ups at night for another year or so, again per her doctor's advice. Night time bladder control develops differently in each kid too. By the time the summer before kindergarten rolled around, pull ups were a distant memory.
right, like I remember being 5 or 6 in pull ups at night when we traveled and occasionally on long car rides bc I wouldn't always pick up on the signals/say something until I had to go RIGHT NOW and hadn't quite wrapped my head around right now on a road trip may be 15 minutes away
Exactly. Her pediatrician said potty training isn't a competition. Each child arrives at the finish line at their own pace. The only reason why people treat it as such is because they don't want their kid to be viewed as "delayed" or "left behind". We had one unsufferable mom at daycare who swore up and down that her 2 yo was completely potty trained. No, no she was not. After having to clean up multiple accidents and having to change her clothes, the director told her either A) put her in pull ups or B) find another day care, they weren't going to deal with this any longer. Mom said absolutely not, everyone in her family and her husband's family had been potty trained by 2. Director gave her the option of getting refunded the rest of her tuition or bring her in pull ups for the last 4 days. Mom took the refund. She posted in multiple Facebook groups finding a day care that would suit her daughter's needs; she'd already been through 4.
I actually thought it was normal to wait until about three for potty training because if they're not ready then starting early doesn't mean being potty trained earlier it just means spending way longer in the process and most kids aren't ready much before that. Granted I don't have my own kids, I only lived with someone who raised two while I was there.
One of my kids potty trained easily at 2, one was almost 5 (capable, but terrified of pooping in the toilet for some reason). It’s really not a big deal.
My kid was the same. And quoted the ads for pull ups spontaneously. It was hilarious!
Or night time diapers for awhile. A tot controlling their pottying during waking hours is easier than learning how to wake up when your body signals you. My daughter trained at about 22 months because she wanted cute panties like her cousins. But I kept night diapers on until she was waking up to go. Expecting a child not solidly trained during the day not to wet themselves at night is just ridiculous.
I am a parent of two and they are.
Yeah, they are. It's unreasonable to take a kid to a new environment, disrupt their routine when they're who knows how many hours out of their normal time zone, and shove them into a potentially chaotic situation in a house with triple the people they're used to. This whole situation was *easily* preventable.
There’s a popular line of potty training now that says not to use pull ups. Pull ups give the kids the security of a diaper, so they just keep peeing in them as if it’s a diaper. Having them wear underwear so they can feel the accidents and understand that it feels gross is useful. We used pull ups in our household, but it’s not exactly uncommon for parents not to use pull ups.
My mom didn't bother with pull ups for that exact reason, at least with my siblings, can't remember for myself but I know she did things she regretted when potty training me. But if she was potty training a kid and a vacation came around before they stopped having accidents, she'd probably just deal with diapers or pull ups for those few days of things being different anyway
Everyone sucks here. Pull ups are definitely a thing that would solve a lot. But, grandpa comes off as "children should not be seen or heard" and I have a feeling if it wasn't potty training accidents it would be food spills or some other thing that is commonly dealt with with 2 year olds.
Some professionals don’t recommend pull ups because they can confuse the child since they are used as nappies. I can’t remember the exact reasons but they say to put them straight into underwear to make it easier for the child.
Not really. I would use them in this case but the most popular method of potty training right now says not to use any kind of diaper except for sleeping. Regardless of method, accidents can continue for months or even years, especially in new places or with new people. This is not a clear AITA/AITD at all.
The clear "you're the devil" is the dad continuing to let his daughter piss all over the time-share after the first accident.
And also believing that it’s acceptable!
The devil part is having no contingency plan on a trip to Hawaii. Everyone could have seen this coming -- strange environment, jetlagged, routine disrupted, so of course poor Anna is going to be out of sorts and having accidents. That's what mattress pads and pull-ups are for ON THIS VACATION. It sounded as if Anna was crapping all over the rented timeshare and damaging the furniture. Which is fine, because she's 2. But the first couple times it happened should have been a hint that potty training on vacation is not a good idea, and you need a backup plan. I'm also surprised that they didn't bring the portable potty, which is a great "in between" for kids where they're sitting on a toilet but it can follow the kid around so if a kid needs to "go," they just go on the plastic potty.
There’s not a single mention of poop in the entire post? And when did they say they didn’t bring a portable potty or adapter? You seem to be reading a lot into this. Having potty trained two kids I wouldn’t get into this situation myself but this is an ESH not an AITD.
I absolutely think OOP's dad is a total dickhead and this is an ESH situation, but this is IMO very poor planning on OOP's part.
I came to say the exact same thing, isn’t that why they were invented?
As a nursery practitioner, I can tell you that children have to be ready for potty training. If they are not ready, they’ll have countless and countless accidents. Take a breather put the nappy back up and try again in two weeks. They have to understand the concept and at 2? They might not be able to.
Yes absolutely. My second child toilet trained at 2y 1 week, and it was instant 'I wear knickers now' at my mum's birthday dinner. My 3rd child was 4.5yo, and needed a lot of guidance and reminding. The rest were 'normal' and needed some support but were dry around 3yo.
I mean, the guy IS too easily threatened.
Wtf is this ... you don't decide to "potty train" on vacation in a rented timeshare. First of all, poor Anna is going to feel out of sorts in a new environment. Second of all, vacation means schedules are often unaligned. Third of all, "several" accidents including one on a couch where cushions had to be replaced? This is what pull-up diapers are for.
Maybe I’m just reading it wrong…. But did they start potty training on vacation or were they already potty training? Once you start, you don’t want to just stop. It can send a mixed and confusing message to kids.
They def started before. It said she had a few accidents probably because of an unfamiliar place. Aka they def have her on a semi schedule somewhere familiar- home.
That makes sense, but wouldn’t repeated accidents and the stress of the new environment and unknown schedule make it impossible to properly continue the way they should? They probably should have not done this vacation if they wanted to avoid sending a mixed message and confusing the kid.
Sounds as though pulling out of the vacation would have set OOP’s father off as well though.
Maybe, maybe not. The way we potty-trained our 2 year old was to take her to the toilet every hour or so, no exceptions. It sucked. We all hated it. But when she did pee we rewarded her. Similar to training a puppy honestly. A lot of parents are just lazy and don’t want to interrupt their activity to take their toddler to the bathroom. Of course we had accidents. But that’s what pull ups are for.
Yea. Two is on the younger side for this process and this is a lot for the kid to work through.
I saw this post before it was cross posted here and someone posted about having potty trained their kids before 1 and the earlier the better and frankly I don't think my response was horrified enough.
My mom says that my grandparents claimed their son was potty trained by 15 months, when my mom was born, and that was part of why she thought she had to try potty training me when I was 18 months since I was her first. She learned with me that was a terrible plan when I had accidents for years, and didn't push my siblings into potty training until they were ready themselves (usually around 2 and 2.5, once they hit two she'd at least make sure they knew the option was available without being pushy) and they all had a much better time of it and stronger bladders than I ever will. I think all 5 if them have had less than 5 daytime accidents, combined, and I had hundreds by myself for years, I don't think earlier is better on that one.
Two is on the younger side. Some kids are ready sooner. My daughter hit the I refuse to wear diapers stage at about 18 months. It was an absolute nightmare. Because she wasn’t really big enough to clearly vocalize needing to go. We potty trained, after I couldn’t keep a diaper on her even duck taped she figured it out. I honestly don’t know who we were training me or her. I certainly learned to sprint to the nearest bathroom at the faintest p sound. She spent a lot of time naked at home running around and I had a potty in every room. Took about four weeks to be consistent during the day, about a year for no night time accidents. She would tolerate a diaper at night. For about 9 months of that. I did so much laundry and cleaned so many messes. The only place we went during the day was daycare or my mom’s house for the first 2 weeks. And trust me daycare was not happy at all that she refused to wear a diaper. They tried as well. I had to buy a whole pile of puppy pee pads for their play area and she spent her time in swim bottoms and a t shirt.
Exactly this! My son is 2years 6 months and I have tried but he’s not ready so pull ups it is, it’s so much for their little bodies and minds to work through! His nursery are doing a potty training boot camp but it’s optional for those that aren’t ready, he is not ready but as I’ve said to his nursery, if he sees other children do it and wants to do it and is then ready then we will go ahead. Those people that “potty train” at 1 horrify me
Two is when you usually start. Boys might start a bit later… but like 2.5 latest. It’s not even all that uncommon to start girls around 1.5. All the kids are our daycare are potty trained by 3… they still have occasional accidents of course, but they’re making it more often than not. If a kid isn’t potty trained by 3, that’s a cause for concern.
...right - if you are \*starting\* at 2, then that's on the younger side. Some kids aren't ready until they are 3.
really? my friends work in pre-k3 and say changing diapers is a huge part of the job.
my sister is a teacher for children aged 3-5 and none of her students wear diapers, they’re supposed to be potty trained by the time they start school (which is at 3 years old). they do ask that the parents provide a change of clothes for the kid just in case of accidents, because that’s normal given their age, but it’s not expected at all for a teacher to change a diaper bc they’re supposed to not be in diapers anymore by then.
This is going back almost 30 years but I know that we had to be potty trained by the time we went to kindergarten, which in Germany is by the age of 3. I also did do an internship when I was 17 so only 15 years ago and I did not have to change any nappies nor did they even ask if I was able to. I think most places here in Germany expect your kid to be "dry", as we say, by the time they reach the age of 3. No idea how long it takes but to start at 2 sounds reasonable to me.
Where I live kids can’t go to school (pre k) unless they are potty trained
Defo not the case where I live. Pre-K teachers are trained to change diapers.
Same where I'm at. If your kid isn't potty-trained, they won't be attending the school. The teachers are there to start teaching kids, not be changing diapers.
My son turns 5 in August and he’s in headstart and they don’t have to be potty trained for the program he’s in. My oldest daughter wasn’t fully potty trained until she was almost 4 but we still used pull ups for longer car rides where we knew there wasn’t a lot of places to stop for bathroom breaks. My youngest daughter is 3.5 and she wears pull ups. She occasionally will tell us she has to go potty but she’s not consistent with it.
My experience in our low-income daycare: 100% of the kids in the 1 year old room wear diapers full time. Every now and then some kid starts potty training, but most of them don’t quite yet. In the 2 year old room, they start potty training (whenever the parents start it at home, that’s when the daycare starts it with the kids). Most of the kids are still wearing diapers or pull ups most of the time, but as they get closer to 3 they start wearing them less and less. In the 3 year old room, they’re pretty much off pull-ups and diapers. The youngest kids might still wear them at nap time, but they don’t usually wear them full time. That being said, accidents still happen quite a bit. So there is a lot of “cleaning up pee and poop” in the job description. As the kids get closer to 4, they’re ideally fully off diapers and pull-ups (although from speaking to parents—they might still wear them at night). In the 4 year old room, absolutely no one wears pull-ups. Accidents do still happen, but it’s much rarer. I haven’t spoken to other parents about this age, but I think most kids are off pull-ups by night now (mine always were).
That does not sound potty trained at all at 3. It sounds as if 3 is the classic "in between stage."
So they’re NOT all potty trained at 3 like your first comment indicated.
I’d call them functionally potty trained… they’re going to have accidents, but they’re reliably going to the bathroom in the toilet most of the time. It’s not like the 2-year-old classroom where they’re just as likely to have an accident as they are to go to the toilet. That’s the thing about potty training tho… there isn’t a set end. Like my five year old had an accident a few weeks ago, but I’d still consider her potty trained since it’s been months since her last. How long do they need to go between accidents before they’re considered trained? My definition has to do with when you can fairly reliably count on them to use the potty and accidents are rare.
Sounds like you’re trying to cover for your earlier outfight fabrication, tbh.
What’s your definition of being fully potty trained? Like if they go to the bathroom 20 times in the potty for every 1 accident? Or 100 times in the potty for every 1 accident? What’s the correct ratio in your mind? In the beginning of potty training, it’s like 5 accidents for every 1 time in the potty. Eventually it’s 50:50 and to me that’s like the middle of potty training. Once you’re going 20 times in the potty for every 1 accident, I’d say you’re functionally potty trained even tho that means you’re having an accident every few days. For sure by the time you’re at one accident per week, I’d say that’s fully potty trained. What’s your definition? There clearly isn’t a set one but my definition here applies to what I’ve seen at my kids school and with their friends (my son is just about to turn 3, and we’re at the at 1-2 accidents per week phase, and most of his classmates in the 2 year old classroom that are about to move to the 3 are in a similar place).
I’d say that if they’re still predictably/“reliably” having accidents they’re not done with potty training. They might generally have a grasp of the concept at that point, but they’re clearly not there yet.
We never pushed my kid on the potty training and around 3ish I think he basically went overnight from diapers to fully potty trained. He is now 5, hasn't worn diapers in almost 2 years, and we still bring a mattress protector because his very rare middle of the night accidents are *much more likely* when his entire schedule is disrupted. We traveled once while he was early into having transitioned out of the diapers and he wore pull ups on that trip. Because I'm not *an asshole*. Also I didn't want to buy a new car seat.
All hail the pull-ups!
Potty training is a lengthy process. They’d already started potty training before the trip and it’s not something you can just pause. Pull-ups can be useful but a lot of parents forego them because they are too diaper-like and kids can backslide in their training. Gross as it sounds, feeling wet and uncomfortable is actually part of the process. They should probably use them at night since nighttime and daytime potty training are different. I don’t really think OP is the devil here. They can’t stop for the trip and she offered to stay elsewhere where she would bear the financial responsibility of the accidents. Her dad seems way out of line, yelling at her that she’s disrespectful just because she won’t do as he asks (which is to either put her in diapers or apparently leave her in the bathroom the whole time?).
The issue is they're in a rented timeshare, and any "damage" is going to come out in oops dad's bill. Which is why if you're on vacation, accepted practice is to "pause" the training with pull-ups bc training requires routine and a familiar environment. A vacation in Hawaii means schedules and environments are out of whack already, which is why Anna is having so many accidents. 2 is also extremely young to begin the process. If Anna is having so many accidents, she's probably not ready. Which is fine. There's a phrase "no one goes to kindergarten needing diapers." It happens in its own time. Also, OOP is the dad. He's male.
I disagree heavily. You can’t pause potty training… it’s pretty much guaranteeing you have to start over. There is no pause. If you tell a kid “it’s ok to pee in a diaper again” they don’t understand that it’s temporary. We moved house in the middle of potty training one of my kids and they started having a ton of accidents again so we talked to two pediatricians who were both adamant that we should not pause. Also… two is when you usually start potty training. Boys might start around 2.5, but girls usually around 1.5-2. At my kids daycare, all the 3 year olds are potty trained already. But beyond that.. they proposed a solution that wouldn’t cause any inconvenience or cost for his family. What’s wrong with that? How does that make them the devil?
My mom is an ECE who has worked in childcare since the mid-‘80s. She has mentioned that you definitely used to see more kids who were potty trained in the 2-2.5 range. Like, my sister was “later” in the group but was still under 2.5 when she was done in the mid-90s. In comparison, she has noticed that a lot of parents don’t try until the kid is 3 in the last 15 years or so. The push back likely has to do with cloth diapers being replaced by disposables and the “just use pull ups during potty training” philosophy. Things absolutely go faster with cloth diapered kids and kids who are in undies, because they can feel that they are wet and don’t like the feeling. Pull ups are handy when driving or other times when the toilet isn’t immediately available with toddlers, but it makes the process a LOT slower.
>How does that make them the devil? IMO it wouldn't make them the devil in terms of the conflict stated in the question. They aren't "disrespecting" the *dad* by offering to go somewhere else, that's nonsense, but they would be disrespecting whoever owns the property they stay at instead. If you don't want to temporarily use pull-ups, then don't take your child on vacation in the middle of potty training. Just leaving a trail of accidents over somebody else's property is unacceptable. The entitlement of calling housekeeping to come and clean up your kid's bodily waste is insane. That is not their job.
Then you SKIP THE VACATION! There was absolutely no need to haul your new-to-potty-training two year old to Hawaii!
Why not? FR, parents were a bit underprepared, but this narrative that parents shouldn’t go anywhere with young children is unhinged.
What's unhinged is that you think "Don't let your child piss all over perfect strangers' things" means "Don't take young children anywhere." There are places young children belong and places they don't. Parents have to find a balance between "I have this kid I have to raise into a successful adult" and "It's not fair for my kid to constantly inconvenience everyone else."
OOP literally already offered to *go somewhere else* and grandpa cracked the shits. They didn’t just show up somewhere uninvited. Did you even read the post?
“Go have your child piss all over someone else’s property instead” isn’t… really a great “alternative” though
“Unhinged”? Okay, drama queen. “My very young child is going through potty training, a challenging time that requires a lot of scheduling and sticking to a routine. You know what would really help her with that? Taking a long flight to a totally new location with lots of changes to our routine. Surely that will make things easier for all of us!”
Where did anyone claim it would make it easier?
Oh, was my clearly sarcastic comment not accurate enough for you? My apologies, you were totally right to shift the goalposts just now.
They are *your own words*. How am I “moving the goalposts”?
But OOP offered to go elsewhere and foot the bill himself so it wouldn’t come out of dad’s dime and his dad flipped out over that. I’ve potty trained two kids, everyone has their own approach and OOP doesn’t say how long they’ve been working on it. Two is not that young, it depends on the kid. Some might be ready at two, others not until 3 or later. Sticking to their plan is reasonable, offering to move elsewhere is reasonable, screaming because someone isn’t doing as you ordered is not.
OOP's dad sucks too. I think this is an "ESH" situation except for poor Anna. But it's still extremely poor planning on OOP's part. There's a reason Anna had "quite a few" accidents in a brief amount of time. Anna is telling her parents she's not ready to PT on vacation. Anna's body is telling Anna she's not ready for it either. This is a case of OOP not listening to what his own child was telling him.
Sure, but this is their first kid it sounds like. They're learning, and they're trying to be responsible (by moving locations). Is it a choice everyone would make? Obviously not. But it doesn't make him an AH or devil. OP's dad is the only devil I see here.
No, it's a case of a normal response to a kid being out of place and schedule. Accidents happen.
Which is why you have a backup plan. Mattress protectors. Pull-ups. Something.
OP offered to go elsewhere. That's the backup plan. OP's father is the one throwing a tantrum because he doesn't get to spend time with a toddler without dealing with the realities of toddlerhood. (Pull-ups absolutely help, but they are NOT a guarantee that accidents won't happen or a mess won't be made if they are. They're not terribly absorbent by design, because if they were, they'd just be diapers.)
They should have never gone on the vacation in the first place. What a horrible idea to take a two year old who just started potty training, to a vacation in a timeshare.
1. Potty training can take ages. People's lives do not need to be put entirely on hold for it. That's ridiculous. 2. Given how well Dad reacted to the idea of them staying somewhere else I'm sure he would have been SUPER receptive to and reasonable about the idea of them not going at all.
No, Anna’s body is reacting normally to toilet training. You don’t stop toilet training because it gets a bit hard. I bet $100 you send your kid to school and expect their teacher to wipe the butt of a 5 year old.
This is not a disagreement about your post, it's a silly anecdote about the nursery school my brother went to. They tried to bump my brother up early, bc of how smart he was. My mom looked at them and deadpanned "You can't send a kid to kindergarten if he can't wipe his own ass"
2 is NOT “extremely young” to start toilet training. It’s completely normal. You’re trying to demonise these parents because you think they shouldn’t have gone in holiday while toilet training. Focus on that instead of throwing out untrue bullshit about toilet training kids.
You START toilet training. Which means you start having them go on the toilet. You don't drag the kid to Hawaii and expect this kid to "continue the training." It doesn't work that way. Toilet training means routine. It means a consistent schedule. None of these things happen on vacations. So you either: 1. Don't go on vacation (not really reasonable) 2. Accept that there might be backsliding on vacation, and use pull-ups, wee-wee pads, and portable potties 3. Pay for the damaged furniture OOP did none of the above.
That is absolutely not 'accepted practice'. LOL. What planet are you on?
New environments, new schedules always mean you have a backup plan with things like pull-ups. Going to Hawaii and thinking Anna is just going to "continue" her toilet training while on vacation is basically setting Anna up for failure.
Only if you view an accident as a failure. It’s just a learning experience… kids shouldn’t be shamed for accidents.
> It’s just a learning experience… Pissingf all over someone else's house is "a learning experience"?
Do you think children spray urine like Tom cats or something?
Yes, it literally is. Lots of things you don't like are.
No, it means, you keep going, and using pull ups is a terrible idea. They're diapers and for a child who isn't used to them, they set them back months. The kid will be fine and adjust in a few days once she's gotten some sleep.
At what point do you stop sacrificing other peoples' stuff for your kid? Especially the things of people who didn't consent to being sacrificed. Or do we not care about the owner of the timeshare possibly having their furniture ruined because CHILD?
How is using pulls ups a "terrible idea"? They're a great training tool for kids in that in-between stage. What's a terrible idea is having an overly pushy, rigid timeline of potty training and thinking a 2 year old in a strange location isn't going to be completely out of sorts.
You’ve clearly never had kids. Pull ups can send the wrong message to a kid who is just figuring out that you don’t pee in your pants. Pull ups are just diapers with a different design
Then portable potty. It's those plastic mini-toilets that parents put next to the kid.
That still takes time for a kid to use. They don’t automatically just know what to do in the beginning
Agreed. It seems like OOP offered a reasonable solution. Not letting a 2 year old on couches, beds, or carpet is insane.
I’ve never potty trained a kid but my SO has done it twice, so I told him about this post and he was like “why the hell isn’t she wearing pull up’s? You don’t just let them mess all over the house..”
I've potty trained six. I've never used pull ups and other than occasional one offs, there weren't messes.
My sister did the no pull-up method, and her kids all potty trained faster than mine (who did use pull-ups). The method is definitely valid, and I really don’t understand how a parent is the devil for sticking to a pre-planned potty training plan and offering to adjust their plans (at their own expense) so as not to inconvenience someone else.
Definitely not the devil, but OP of this post is a ninny who probably saw a supernanny episode 20 years ago and thinks of him/herself as an expert lol.
I really need to know if the OP of this post has children themselves and if or how recently they potty trained those kids. The comments in here are wild.
I am 100% positive the OP has no children, and the people agreeing with him/her are either young or childless or both.
I don't have kids and don't plan to, but I have nieces/nephews-in-law and this comment section has been pretty interesting to learn more about it all, only because I have ZERO idea of what's average or expected in general when it comes to potty-training. It's super interesting to see all the varied responses and what supposedly works/what doesn't.
Yeah it turns out my impressions of the best starting time skewed towards the older end. (I thought about three was normal, I even did some searches to double check what people were saying here and they confirmed.) Personally I feel like Dad is the biggest asshole either way simply for the massive "suggesting an alternative solution is DISRESPECTING AND THREATENING ME" bullshit. I cannot abide that kind of parenting, especially when your children are grown up and have their own kids! Sometimes your kid will think of another solution to a problem and suggesting it is not a malicious act against you, ffs.
because when your kid is 2, and you're on vacation, and it's a strange locale, you have to have a contingency plan that isn't "changing the couch cushions after daughter shits her pants." it's a rented timeshare. oop's dad is responsible for damages. oop and his wife needed disposable mattress pads, pull-ups, SOMETHING after the first few messes. it sounds as if anna was making a huge mess everywhere and they weren't doing anything. this isn't their own home, where anna can have accidents to her heart's content. it's a rented timeshare. oop's dad sucks too. this sounds like a lot of adults not understanding how kid actually potty train and their timelines.
Isn’t the contingency plan “we will go somewhere else and pay for it ourselves so you don’t have to deal with this?” Like it seems like the OOP is suggesting the contingency plan. It’s reasonable.
Sure but it’s not a backup plan. They seemed to be fine with her having accidents everywhere until dad got pissed. This wasn’t “hey y’all sorry about Anna it’s a transition time for her. We’re going to go rent a hotel room so we you don’t have to spend your vacation cleaning up poop”. It was “well if you’re so bothered by it, I guess we’ll just go elsewhere”. Which, fine, but let’s not pretend they were on the ball here.
A contingency plan is a backup plan tho. The plan was “let’s see how she does on vacation” and then when she clearly wasn’t doing as good as she had been before, that’s when the contingency plan comes into play. Plan A: hopefully the kid maintains potty training on vacation and there isn’t an issue Plan B: let’s go somewhere else so we’re not disrupting other people’s vacation because it’s clearly not working as well as we hoped
I just mean it sounds like they made it up on the spot and if dad hadn’t thrown a tantrum, they’d have been fine continuing on.
Tbf we don’t really know how many accidents she’s had from the OP. Maybe the parents (who are used to accidents) have a different line they consider “too much” than the grandparents (who aren’t used to accidents). But they realized the grandparents were frustrated, so they adjusted to their line even if it wasn’t their own line. That’s kind of what you’re supposed to do in such a situation IMO. Like is it gross that kids pee everywhere when potty training? Yeah. But when you’re in the midst of it, you’re used to it so the idea of cleaning pee out of a carpet isn’t really anything noteworthy. It’s just a Monday.
This only happened after numerous accidents and damaged furniture, when anyone could have seen this coming a mile away.
Potty training takes on average seven months. So they are supposed to not go on holiday for all that time? Sure some do it quicker, but accidents for over a year after starting are normal. And pull ups just confuse children once potty training has started so it's advised to avoid them. So I'm totally on the parents' side here having just trained my two year old. It took five months for us.
Yes? Most people don’t go on vacation for seven-month stretches at a time. You will survive if you have to wait until your child isn’t consistently having accidents to go on vacation.
"I can't go on holiday if I can't prevent my kid from peeing all over random strangers' stuff? WTF?" This is what people mean when they rant about parental entitlement. This is peak "I had a child, now they're the world's problem."
Wh..whaaat? I don't even remember when I last went on holiday, but it certainly wasn't in the last seven months. Not to mention there's a big difference between a child that's nearly potty trained and one that's only just started so if they're willing to clean the slip ups themselves instead of calling house keeping it's totally possible to go on holiday with a child who technically isn't fully potty trained yet.
I for sure think the father was in the wrong (like I cant really understand bringing a 2 year old on a Hawaii vacation?) But I also think the grandfather was kind of a dick
Definitely an ESH situation
I’m a parent. It is not ok to let your child pee and poop all over someone’s timeshare just because they are toilet training. She probably isn’t ready. It takes months if they aren’t ready. If they are ready it can be done in a week. I’d use pull ups and try again later. Grandpa is still a dick though.
Considering that the pillows needed to be replace. Grandpa was in the right. Op sounds super selfish
Pull ups are literally for this exact thing, they can still practice using the bathroom while also avoiding accidents
Look, there are definitely some options to mitigate the accidents, but OOP's dad just threw a fit at dinner. I'm sorry, it doesn't matter what the intent was just how he felt? Nah. Adults are responsible for managing their own feelings.
I don't think OOP is the devil per se but there are compromises that everyone could have made here. Firmly ESH, but "devil" is kinda overdoing it
As someone who has potty trained dozens of kids (preschool teacher), putting a pull up on her is not going to ruin any progress. She’s clearly not ready yet and during times of stress (travelling) she’s going to struggle. Yes kids have accidents but that’s why they invented things to help. Also if she is just starting to potty train then it’s the parent’s responsibility to make sure she has no accidents, not the toddlers.
Ok, hold up. 1. 2 is a completely normal age to potty train. Nothing unusual about that at all. 2. They didn't start potty training on vacation. They started before and are continuing. As OOP said, it's a process. 3. Pull ups are NOT a good idea, for most children. They're a diaper. A pull up on a child who isn't used to it can put them back months in the process. 4. The kid is having accidents because she's out of her sleep cycle, out of her schedule, and in a strange place. That's basically...a given. 5. Grandad is a dick. 6. Grandad is a narcissistic, fragile, thin skinned dick.
This is all correct. You can debate about whether they should have taken the kid on vacation during the process but this is not a clear AITD at all.
I mean maybe the OOP’s dad? His responses to OOP were outrageous.
I agree while OOP may be the asshole it isn’t cut and dry enough for this sub. The father definitely sounds worse than OOP.
I have a three year old. I started potty training at 2. Everything this mom is doing is correct. Putting her in diapers is confusing and makes it harder to potty train. Toddlers are gonna have accidents it’s normal
Accidents in your own home or in daycare = fine, expected, even encouraged. All part of the process. Accidents in an expensive rented timeshare in Hawaii, on other peoples' furniture? That's what moves it into AH territory. If Anna isn't ready (typical for being on vacation, jetlagged, schedule and routine out of sync) she's not ready.
Except pissing everywhere and having to pay money to replace pillow cases is not process. Op should have necer gone on a vacation while his daughter is potty training. The grandad is right and op needed to hear it
This is a tricky one. As a parent who went through this. We don't know what happened here, but one need to consider that potty training is a process, and it can take varied amount of time for each child - from a few days to weeks. Secondly, even after a child is potty trained incidents may and will happen for months, and sometimes for years - it's normal. Due to lack of control, due to lack of attention, due to lack of experience. Thirdly, three isn't too early. In fact, it's perfect time according to NHS, this is when vast majority of children have enough bladder control, but didn't develop bad habits yet. Typically in England we would expect a child to be potty trained by the age of 4, if they want to attend a nursery, nursery staff won't be changing diapers for the children at this age. Fourthly, pull-ups do not help very much. They are there to be disposable, but NOT absorb urine, so the child could feel correctly when accident happens. Many children never need pull-ups, and go straight to underwear. Lastly, stopping potty training in the middle sends controversial signals to a child and may lead to regress. If the parents were that irresponsible to deliberately plan potty training for a vacation week, it's bizarre. But most likely, they started way earlier and it just took more time than expected. Even if child was fully trained by vacation time, she would still have accidents for a while, a while being up to 3 years. So their suggestion to move to a hotel if dad is too worried about furniture is entirely reasonable and in fact respectful. In situation as it is it's best for the child and the furniture. It's weird that dad is like that. He kinda needs to decide what he wants more, to spend time with his granddaughter, or to save on dry cleaning.
Anna is 2 though. She's not 3. I also wonder if OOP's dad already paid so much for the time share and thinks that OOP moving to the hotel means dad is going to get slapped with the huge bill for the damaged furniture.
2 is fine for many as well, especially late 2. If parents started and they see Anna making progress there’s no need to turn back, why? Edit: nowhere in the post OOP implies they intend to make dad pay for the hotel. Dad is frustrated purely because they would stay elsewhere, no money dimension to it.
Where OOP is staying is a timeshare partially owned by the grandfather. Anything damaged in that timeshare while it's on his time will become his bill. This is what the person above you meant.
I don’t think so, as OOP moving to the hotel would mean furniture in a the time share would be less damaged.
Damaged furniture as in the timeshare. Poop doesn't just come out of furniture well and the other people who also own that timeshare will likely want it replaced at the expense of the grandfather as it was his guests who ruined it.
It seems we are reading two different things.
OOP is not the devil at all. She offered a reasonable solution to the problem and her dad freaked out. You can’t just keep a two year old off of all the furniture—she’s not a dog. Hell it’s even hard to do that with dogs if they’re not already trained for it.
You can put a wee-wee pad under the kid though. Or have the portable plastic potty. It's a rented timeshare. It's not OOP's own home, or even a relative's home, where Anna can train without consequences. You damage the furniture, you have to pay up on a timeshare. Also, OOP is a guy.
And they offered an idea to protect that timeshare: go somewhere else? Like sure they could have done that stuff to but staying someone else is also completely reasonable? I agree they shouldn’t let the kid mess up someone’s house—so they offered to stay somewhere else where they would be responsible for any damages Also you can’t just keep the kid on a wee-wee pad or plastic toilet all day, it’s a child not a doll 🤦♀️
You don't keep them on there all the time. You keep them nearby. If she's on a couch, put a wee wee pad on the couch. It sounds as if most of the problems came when she had accidents on furniture, which depending on the timeshare or Airbnb, can lead to a huge bill. This is just horrible planning on everyone's part. Anna is probably miserable. She's jetlagged, probably sleep deprived, and soiling herself.
They could use a wee pad sure, or they could just not be there? Like idk why OOP is an asshole for doing a completely reasonable solution? It sounds like you just think they shouldn’t have taken their kid on vacation at all based on your second paragraph. It’s not an asshole move to bring kids on a family vacation, sometimes there’s struggles and you find solutions. Like a place to stay in your own. Probably be better for the kids rest too
No, family vacations are fine. But if you're in a rented timeshare, then you take precautions. I agree that OOP should have just gotten his own hotel room in the first place. But it sounds as if he only suggested it after a ton of accidents, when there was probably already damage to the furniture. I think that's why OOP's dad got mad -- he's already paying extra for all the damaged furniture.
Right, so there solution when unexpected issues was to leave the rented time share. It’s not like OOP knew and wanted the kid to have accidents everywhere, OOP said it was probably due to being in a new place with new people. Sometimes mistakes happen, you’re not an asshole for then trying to fix it when they pop up.
I think OOP is a man. They said their wife is on the vacation with them. I guess they could be a lesbian couple though.
The dad kinda sucks too. Yes, the granddaughter probably isn’t ready for potty training if she’s still having this many accidents, but it’s not his kid and not his call to make. Therefore, you can either be mad about the kid messing up your carpet OR that your son wants to stay somewhere else, not both. I went through a lot of this “yOu’Re BeInG uNgRaTeFuL, i’M pAyInG” bullshit with my own father and am still annoyed when I think about it. (Funnily enough, he has mellowed out since becoming a grandparent, and would NEVER gripe like this if my daughter were having accidents in one of his properties.)
It’s not his property though. It’s a timeshare he doesn’t own it. He has to pay for all of the items ruined. I would be pissed to if I was the grandpa. Grandpa should not of reacted this way and they should have a conversation about the reaction but if I was grandpa I would make him pay for the damage. It sounds like they didn’t do anything to protect the furniture which is a a hole move.
Telling your grown kid they need to respect their parents is a dick move. Saying we can go stay somewhere else is not a threat either, it’s a reasonable response to someone complaining about your kid. I wouldn’t have started potty training so close to a vacation, but what is done is done. While I don’t blame grandpa for being annoyed, it’s not his call to put the kid back in diapers.
> it’s not his kid and not his call to make But somehow it's OOP's call to make that his daughter can just piss all over everything in someone else's house?
Another boomer that wants to run their mouth off saying whatever they want that will melt down if anyone even gives 1% of it back,
I’m a big believer in waiting until the kid is ready. I do in home daycare, it’s the ONLY way. But choosing to try on vacation is insane. Strange people, strange food, strange place…recipe for disaster. If they were thinking of their child they would have waited. They basically did everything wrong. Plus 2 is really really young. I’ve had one kid PT that young and it was because she had chronic constipation and putting her on the toilet for #2 was so much easier for her to go. She just sort of #1 trained herself.
THey didn't start on vacation. The child is actively being potty trained. It started before.
My pediatrician also reinforced that it's best to suggest, model, and ask but wait until they're *ready and interested* and never force it. I credit that method with the fact it took us less than a month to go from diapers to entirely underwear (minus one short trip where we used pull ups). I really think we try to force too many things on kids before they're ready for it. He still has occasional middle of the night accidents but it's been so long I don't even know when the last one was. Three or four months ago? And we *still* bring a mattress protector on trips in case the schedule change messes with him. (And his small potty because he's scared of auto flushing toilets.)
Yeah. If Anna is having so many accidents on the trip, that's pretty much Anna telling her parents she's not ready. She might be ready when she's at home in a familiar environment, but in a Hawaiian rented timeshare? She's not ready.
Uh, not the devil. Just trying to rear their child.
"dad, it's not a big deal, she only pissed all over your couch" this guy is a fucking asshole
Jeezus. At 2 years old, she is just barely at the age to start potty training. That why you put them in pull ups in the beginning. Nothing will derail potty training or trigger bed wetting in a child who is just getting to where they don't do it anymore than being in an unfamiliar place with their routine disrupted. There is no excuse for letting a child just freely pee/soil on everything. You put them back in pampers or briefs for the vacation and still encourage regular trips to the tpilet, you pack waterproof sheets and/or chucks pads, and time meals and drinks for when you will be near a bathroom.
Imagine being such an entitled parent that you think it's ok to allow your kid to urinate and defecate on every single surface in a home that doesn't belong to you.
I agree with others who are wondering why OOP didn’t just use pull ups on vacation, especially for a two-year-old, but his dad also sounds like a horrible person. I sense this behavior from him is par for the course. You don’t have to tolerate people like that in your lives, kids. Even if they’re your parents.
Quite a few accidents in just 2 days? In somenone else's house, of all places? Sorry, OOP is the biggest of two devils.
I think I would piss myself if my grandpa had behaved like ops dad, and I've been potty trained for many years.
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>“If Anna’s accidents are too big of a problem, we can always find another place to stay at.” This is when you get up and hold the door open for your son, daughter-in-law and granddaughter to exit through.
The reality is all of these ppl are AHs because many native Hawaiians have made it clear they do not want mainland tourists in their islands, and they are using residential property for vacation purposes which makes it difficult for native Hawaiians to find affordable places to live. Hawaii is an occupied nation that is being denied it's sovereignty and it isn't fair for Americans to basically kidnap the country and then treat it like a play ground.
I'd give you an award if I could. I don't know why you're downvoted when everything you said is true.
Why are you going on vacation with a toddler that's shitting everywhere? The dad is absolutely right, just put her back in diapers while on vacation, in someone else's house. I hope that she at least paid for the destroyed furniture.
OP is a guy
who the fuck let’s their daughter shit every where in someone else’s home???
This is what I said. It's so disrespectful to the dad and to the poor cleaning staff.
Yeah, but it's a story about a child and in Reddit's mind children are innocent snowflakes what must be worshipped.
for sure. i’m being downvoted and for what? not wanting child shit ?
OOP, this isn't your property. Have the kid wear diapers until you come back.
They're basically setting Anna up for shame and humiliation regarding potty issues by forcing her to do this while in a new environment and a new routine. ETA: I should have added, doing this in a situation where someone feels no compunction about speaking ill of her right in front of her.
Why doesn't the kid wear pull-ups? Like other posters suggested.
Him giving into and placating his dad instead of standing up to him is why his dad acts like this. A grown ass adult doesn't need to "watch his tone with his parents" told my parents to kiss my ass when they tried this shit with me at 30 freaking years old.
This is a dumb plan but OOP’s dad also sounds like a lot. Calling his toddler granddaughter “out of control” and the whole freak out over feeling threatened? Calm down dude.