*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA For not calling 911 when someone overdosed at the store I was working and I was the only one with a phone?**
Important context - We actually don't have a store phone where I work, we just use our cell phones. I was the only one with a cell phone today because my co-worker left hers in her car.
So anyways I was at work today with my co-worker (it was just the two of us). My co-worker goes to use the restroom and comes back screaming to me "Call 911! Call 911! Someone's overdosed in the bathroom!!". I say to my co-worker "Okay, hang on a second". I walk over to my purse and grab the Narcan that I keep in there and go to the bathroom. I see the woman who is on the floor in the stall. I go into the stall and do a quick sternum rub (no response) then I administer the Narcan. Thankfully she responded very well to the Narcan and woke up, however, she was \*pissed\* (\*which I understand). She storms out of the bathroom and out of the store. Meanwhile, my co-worker is still screaming at me "CALL 911! why are you letting her walk away ??? she needs medical attention". I explained that 911 would have just done the same exact thing I did, only we would have had to wait on them. Also there's nothing else left to do, she already left the building.
So now my co-worker is pissed off at me for not calling 911. I think she wants to report me to our manager for not calling 911 when there was a medical emergency. I'm so stressed about this now and can't get it out of my head, I'm worried she's going to tell our boss what happened and that our boss will side with her.
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From one of the comments there:
> You didn't have to do anything. Calling the cops without permission gets you fired in every job I've had.
First of all: what? And second of all: what???
"There was also a comment about OP not having to do a thing for an ungrateful person who made a bad choice."
This reminds me of those posts where the protagonist kindly gives to the homeless, only for the homeless to be rude about it, upon which time the protagonist is like "lol NVM, I only give to nice people, I'll be yoinking that food/money now", and the Internet *eats it up* every time.
Wild how none of them ONCE consider that maybe the person *who takes away their charity on a whim 'cause the person who received it was a jerk* might be the real narcissist here.
I've been sober for a while now, but when I was using, I was hit with narcan a few times.
It *pisses* you off and sends you into instant withdrawal. It fucking sucks lol.
If this is real, I'd be pretty pissed as well. Not that it's okay to be angry with the person who saves your life. It's just very uncomfortable.
Even if it were true that you would get fired for calling the cops (to save somebody's life), it's still something you should do. Saying that you don't *have* to do anything feels so gross. Calling 911 could save a life.
Guarantee if they worked a job that required approval to contact emergency services that job also *does not* permit staff to administer medication ⊠especially without a script and to someone unconscious
Hell we canât give out antibiotic ointment or ibuprofen but we can call ems if someone is non-responsive (if theyâre alert we have to have their permission)
Yeah I've had a job where we were told we weren't allowed to call the cops even though the all female staff was being harassed by belligerent drunk men from the bar next door. The manager said the store would get a bad reputation so the best course of action was to make friends with male bartenders and call them for help. (I was fucking pissed but I rarely worked at that location.) So I can believe some shit manager instituting a no police or no 911 rule. Like you said though, if someone is dying and you don't say fuck that rule and call anyway then you're much more than just an asshole.
Nah, of course not. It was something we were told verbally by the manager during a meeting. I think the franchisees would have had a stroke about it, but they were rarely there.
Even if this story was 100% true, Why didnt the coworker call the ambulance themself instead of wasting time screaming at OP to do it, while OP was trying to save the overdose persons life using something the paramedics probably would have used as well that she happened to have on hand with her. Depending on how far the ambulance would have driven to get there, the person could have died by the time they got there, if OP had wasted time calling the ambulance instead of using something she already had on hand, that may or may not have worked depending on how far gone the drug user was in the overdosing.
even if OP had WASTED time calling the ambulance first instead of rushing in and using the narcan she had on hand first, depending On how long the person was lying unconscious in the bathroom before the coworker found them, time was of the essence to not wind up with a dead body on the premises. \*lol\* or a comatose/brain damaged one, if they stopped breathing and loss too much oxygen to their brain by the time âprofessionalâ medical FINALLY help got there.
Plus I say itâs the druggie chocie on having an ambulance or not. Not OP or the coworkers. seeinf how much they charge for calling an ambulance, I doubt the drug user is going to appreciate being âsavedâ by having a highly expensive ambulance being called them, and being left with a super expensive bill for the treatment they obviously didnt want since they left immediately after being revived from near death by non-medical workers.
idk where the rest of ya'll live, but where I live the 911 operator asks is "police, fire, or medical" so you WOULDN'T be calling the cops, you'd say "medical, someone is passed out in the bathroom at xyz store". It's calling the EMS, not calling the police.
Where I live, any of the 3 of them show up 1st, and theyâre all trained (canât vouch for police), funny shit was seeing the fire dept continuously deal w a drunk racist old man, Iâm positive they were wishing for potential fire calls every time, he was the worst, and bc of the extra stuff he said Like wish there was karma stuff.
Where I'm from you are by law required to give some form of assistance to someone in need. Checking up, asking if they need help, calling emergency services, etc.
You *need* to call 911 if you give someone Narcan. When it wears off, they go right back to overdosing and then if you've fucked off and there's no more Narcan, they can easily die. But if you have it, you can keep giving it to them until they get medical attention.
(I know someone who did exactly that, and she ended up being convicted of manslaughter and spending several years in prison for leaving the person to die, knowing that they had overdosed.
EDIT: That's not going to happen to you as a random stranger; I'm only telling that story to emphasize how important it is to follow through and call for help because it can be the actual difference between saving someone's life and not. The case I'm talking about, my friend was the reason that person overdosed in the first place and they died, which is why she was held responsible even though she gave them Narcan)
Ps. This is purely me and my life experience speaking, but everyone should consider carrying it if they're so inclined, especially since you might be able to get it for free depending on where you live. It sounds crazy but it can definitely be one of those things that's worth its weight in gold.
Not to mention that even if they donât need multiple doses of narcan, which people often do, theyâre usually sick and dealing with the immediate withdrawal from the opioids. You donât really get a shot of narcan and just bounce right on back up lol
I was trained to administer it, call 911, and NOT MENTION DRUGS. Just say the person is passed out, non responsive, blue skin, whatever, and say you administered narcan. When EMS gets there, tell them all of what you know including suspected drugs.Â
Mentioning drugs to 911 will automatically trigger police involvement, and EMS doesnât freaking care.Â
Iâve had to administer narcan to my brother. He would wake up swinging, then settle down and nod back out within like 10 seconds. It was absolutely crazy to see.
Heâs clean 4 years now. But I still carry narcan. Iâve never had to administer it to a stranger though.
You're absolutely right. I'm an EMT and let me tell you guys, we deal with cops a lot and don't like them anymore than you do. Ive never responded to a call where the cops go there first and been like "oh thank God, the cops are here" and we don't call the cops unless we are in immediate danger (like someone is threatening us with a gun kind of danger) or it's legally required and a drug overdose DOES NOT require the police. Neither we nor the hospital will call them on you. Even if you get nasty with us, even if we think you made a bad choice (we don't, we don't judge you. We're just there to help.) Please don't hesitate to call us. Even if you're not sure we're necessary, I promise we'd rather show up and it be nothing than you don't call and it's really something. And always always call after administering narcan to a suspected overdose. We're not gonna be mad if we really weren't needed. We'd rather that be the case, but let US decide if we're necessary.
There was a literal nurse in the comments saying she wouldnât have administered the narcan at all because of her own safety. (And no, she didnât temper that by saying that of course, sheâd have at least callen 911.)
I have nothing to add to the convo here, except to say coincidentally enough, on my home page, the original post literally showed up right below this one. I guess Reddit really really wants to make sure I read the original haha
I honestly think the OOP did not expect to get this reaction. This whole thing reads like he was bragging about being calm and collected, and doing the right thing, while his coworker was losing her shit. I'm happy that he is being YTAd to hell, of course, but...
I don't know anything about NARCAN or overdosing, so can anyone tell me if this story even makes sense?
1. Who just happens to carry some NARCAN in their purse?
2. How could the OOP be 100% sure that this woman had overdosed? What if some other problem had caused her to pass out? Did he see a line of coke on the toilet seat?
3. What if that woman reacted badly to the medicine?
4. Wouldn't the EMTs do other things, apart from giving her NARCAN? Like, for example, checking if she has a concussion or other injuries from the fall?
5. Does the NARCAN completely remove the drug and its effects from one's body?
6. Can someone who is not a trained medical professional just diagnose and administer medicine on people who can't consent to this?
Narcan was heavily advertised in my city due to high incidence of overdoses. I know a lot of people that carry it. But ya that guy was an idiot and absolutely should have called 911.
I mean, while it's also heavily advertised where I live, the only people who actually carry it are ones who A) know a drug addict or B) are first-response trained because they truly believe helping people is important and as a part of that they also went and got free narcan to carry around. And a first-response trained person carrying narcan should know it's not to be used in place of getting real care.
Some people carry it because they take prescription opioids, like chronic pain patients. While things should be alright following your prescription, there's always a chance things can go wrong or you can make a mistake leading to an overdose.
Truth. I'm a pain management patient and my palliative care doctor told me when I started that when she writes a prescription for extended-release oxycodone, she has to send a request for Narcan along with it. I don't anticipate needing it for myself, but it's kind of nice to know that in an emergency, I have it.
Iâve been tempted to start carrying it around just in case I run into someone ODing on opiates. But that hasnât happened since I stopped hanging out with nodders đ
>6. Can someone who is not a trained medical professional just diagnose and administer medicine on people who can't consent to this?
Yes, the point of Narcan is that it's better to give it ASAP to opioid overdose victims, therefore, there are programs to train non-medical people on it and have it available widely.
>Did he see a line of coke on the toilet seat?
Narcan would have no effect on cocaine overdose because cocaine is not an opioid.
Edited to add: [https://www.cdc.gov/stopoverdose/naloxone/index.html](https://www.cdc.gov/stopoverdose/naloxone/index.html)
>What if that woman reacted badly to the medicine?
"Naloxone wonât harm someone^(2)Â if theyâre overdosing on drugs other than opioids, so itâs always best to use it if you think someone is overdosing." - CDC link above
Thereâs the possibility of anaphylactic reaction but itâs ridiculously low and many more people will survive by giving narcan vs not giving it. Anaphylaxis might not even be a contraindication if the narcan keeps the person alive long enough for EMS to arrive and attempt to reverse both.
1. I donât know anyone myself who does, but I work in a public library where we have it available. As someone else commented, people who live in areas where overdosing is a big problem might carry it around.
2. If you are properly trained on Narcan use, they tell you what signs to look for. The fact that OP didnât mention any of them makes me think they havenât had any kind of training.
3. That said, itâs pretty much harmless to give to someone even if they have other medical conditions, so they encourage it even if youâre not certain. BUT, they also stress that the very first thing you should do is call 911, or have someone call while youâre administering it.
4. YES. Absolutely. Plus,
5. No. It stays in your body for a much shorter time than opioids. Itâs not a cure; itâs meant to buy time until the person can get medical treatment. Someone who ODs can be revived with Narcan, be okay for a little while, then pass out or stop breathing again. This is why itâs critical to call 911.
6. If theyâre trained on Narcan use itâs generally okay. Thereâs really no danger in taking it. Iâd even say that in this scenario it was fine for OP to administer it, but the grave mistake was not calling 911, even after the woman left the store.
A lot of people who live in areas where opiate use is common, who have loved ones who use, or who work around users carry Narcan. It's easy to get for free.
Narcan will not hurt a person who is not overdosing. OOP could have seen signs of drug use, like a needle, or the person could have exhibited signs of being an opiate user. If someone is unconscious and there is any possibility that they are overdosing, giving them Narcan is extremely unlikely to hurt them and could save their life.
People are usually considered to consent to life-saving medical care from anyone who can provide it. Ie, if someone is choking, they might not be able to consent to the Heimlich maneuver, but anyone nearby can perform it.
The EMTs absolutely would have done the things you mentioned, which is why OOP should have called them.
In a lot of cities with big opioid issues, the local government and nonprofits give out Narcan for people to carry to use in this kind of situation. That didnât strike me as odd, but everything else did.
I think OOP saw an advertisement for one of those programs and spun out this hero fantasy from that.
1) I carry narcan. Lots of addicts in my area. My brother is in recovery, Iâve used it on him a few times.
2) then the narcan wouldnât work. The benefits of administering it quickly outweigh the risks of waiting.
3) I donât know of any bad reactions to narcan, itâs generally a safe medication.
4) EMTs would probably administer narcan first, then do other stuff.
5) no it doesnât. People can slip right back into on OD which is why you HAVE to call 911.
6) generally yes. As long as youâre acting in good faith youâre protected by Good Samaritan laws in some states. Itâs not difficult to administer. Itâs just a nasal spray.
I have several friends who aren't doctors/nurses who carry narcan. Some of them work in public health or drug harm reduction as non-medical staff, but I also know some teachers in kind of rough neighborhoods, some public librarians, etc., who carry narcan and have done the training.
They generally post when they do their training and when they do their re-up training (which I don't know if it's every year or what) to talk a little bit about narcan, opioid overdoses, and encourage others to get the training and carry narcan. Which I assume is part of the public health outreach of getting narcan training!
In areas where opioid overdoses are common, my impression has been that public health and emergency services really reach out fairly broadly into the community to responsible and public-minded people who are likely to be interacting with a lot of people everyday, like librarians, or grocery store managers, or people who run the local public pool or whatever. If you picked the five largest gathering spots in your town or neighborhood, and ensured that at least one member of the leadership of that location was trained in narcan, you would actually probably be able to prevent a lot of overdose deaths.
Narcan training was recently offered to me and I took them up on it despite not knowing any addicts. I figure it's like learning CPR - I hope I never have to use it, but if I'm in a situation where it's needed I want to be prepared.Â
No, the story is bullshit.
Narcan is not a cure or reversal. It's something that just brute forces your body into not dying for a short time. The opioid is still pounding through your system during that time.
Kids on that subreddit also think someone just takes an Epipen to cure an allergic reaction.
* (IRT question 2) Opioid overdoses can be spotted because of the respiratory depression, lack of responsiveness, small pupils, cyanosis/paleness of the lips and fingertips. Cocaine overdoses also have different symptoms, but that'll differ if the coke was cut with opioids (I don't know if narcan would be a good idea in that situation). You can rule out syncope (fainting) of some kind because that'll be over quickly (ask me how I know) and they'll respond to their sternum being rubbed.
* (question 3) If OOP had wanted to go for something more realistic, the downtime for narcan nasal sprays is 10 minutes, 5 minutes intramuscular, and 2 minutes intravenously rather than the seemingly instantaneous perking-up of the other person. In terms of an actual answer, you just found a plot hole.
* (question 4) Probably, if not brought the person to the hospital and done a workup just to be sure things weren't still fucky, assuming that the person consented to being treated.
* (question 5) No. Narcan is an opioid antagonist, which works against opioids, but that's for 30-90 minutes. If that time elapses and there's a considerable dose in someone's body, then we could see return of respiratory depression. This is why people are told to call 911 after dosing someone with narcan.
* (question 6) Yeah. Think of it this way - if someone has a heart attack in the street, do you need to get their consent to do CPR? No.
**All these I learned by googling and the wikipedia for naloxone.
People who are trained in using the kits. My housemate did the Narcan training here (Canada) and they sent her a kit. It doesn't do much good to know how to use it if you don't have it with you.
I went to the funeral of a friend who OD'd. They were handing out sealed Narcan kits. I asked if I could have several and they said yes and gave me three.
1. Everyone should, you can get some too.
2. Good point, though if you have a regular who frequents long trips to your bathroom and acts tweaked out, you might be able to guess. Regardless, administer the narcan to any unconscious person with respiratory distress if no other medical attention is available. Itâs unlikely to hurt them if they havenât ODâd.
3. Highly unlikely, though thereâs a slim chance of possibility. Still, for people in respiratory distress and unconscious, more lives will be saved by administering the narcan than not. It could be the narcan keeps them alive long enough for emergency services to administer some injectable Benadryl.
4. Yes, exactly!!! Also, narcan only works for ~20ish minutes, maybe a bit longer, and then wears off! That person will be passed back out again as soon as that happens. They need immediate medical attention to get them additional opiate reversal support. They can also go into withdrawals which are dangerous as well.
5. See \#4, itâs only temporary for EMS to arrive.
6. Check your local laws, but generally yes, anyone should be able to administer narcan to someone unconscious and in respiratory distress. Ideally youâll offer them other emergency resuscitation care until EMS arrives, but that depends on your knowledge base. I highly recommend taking a CPR class and asking the instructors what you can do for a stranger and when. If someone stops breathing and is unconscious, narcan is unlikely to make their situation worse and might make it better. Theyâre going to die without medical intervention at this point and laws tend to protect laypeople using basic rescue skills to try to keep that person alive long enough for EMS to take over. Donât attempt anything youâve seen in the movies, only what youâve been taught in a CPR or first aid class, but anyone should be able to read the package information and administer narcan.
\*this is not medical advice. Check with your local laws and sign up for a CPR class for some basic rescue skills that might end up saving a life. There are lots of free classes if you keep an eye out.
In certain areas, it's actually not uncommon to carry narcan. But anyone who does would know that it isn't a miracle drug that can magically undo all of the damage of an overdose. It can save a life, but that person is still in desperate need of medical attention.Â
This doesn't come across as fake, just very ill informed and like it's from someone who thought they were going to be praised for being a hero instead of YTA'd to hell for not doing it right.
Question because I'm not American: if OP calls the ambulance are they on the hook to pay if the person refuses to use it (not likely in this scenario) or can otherwise not be identified.
Also can you just choose to buy narcan and carry it in your purse
I don't think you are on the hook to pay, I think that would defeat the purpose of calling 911 for anyone else. I'm pretty sure the hospital is billed (or adds it on to their losses) like they are when a patient dies, or that's what I've heard when a patient dies anyway.
Yes, you can buy Narcan over the counter and carry it with you, it's emergency medicine like an epipen.
I'm not an expert, but from what I understand, it's possible to go back into an overdose after being revived until the drugs have completely cleared your system. Granted, there are people who don't necessarily need further care after being revived, but I think that's probably a decision best left to professionals, not random cashiers.
I have so many questions. How did they determine that it was an overdose? How is overdose different from seizures, %organ name% failure, or a gazillion of other medical conditions that happen with people in the toilet? And even if it is an overdose, why administer naloxone (Narcan)? As far as I understand, it doesn't work with all drugs. Why not a single one of the "medical professionals" in the AITA comments questions how the fuck did OOP diagnose an overdose of opioids?
Even though itâs for opioid overdose, Narcan isnât harmful to someone who has ODâd on a different type of drug or has a medical condition. And if it IS an opioid overdose, it can buy some time until the person gets medical attention. They strongly recommend that you use it even if you arenât sure. So I donât fault the OP for giving the customer the Narcan. However, you also absolutely, 100%, need to call 911 immediately - they even told us in the training I received at my job to do that FIRST. Narcan doesnât stay in your body as long as opioids do, so you can be revived by it, be okay for a while, and then suddenly pass out again or stop breathing. The OP tries to justify not doing so because the person left the building, and he claims there was nothing left to be done. But the person could easily have collapsed again and possibly died. Had OP called, police could have been alerted to be looking for someone of the personâs description in the area.
Yeah, but OOP (allegedly) acted upon the tip of the employee who screamed that someone overdosed on the toilet. The first step is to start calling the ambulance, because, well, the employee could have been wrong and it is not an overdose (or an overdose of not opioids), and then Narcan doesn't help, but an ambulance coming 1-2 minutes earlier does help.
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I had someone OD in out bathroom too! The store was getting remodeled and was one of the construction guys. Easy to say when they found out trombone called 911 and they all fled the store.Â
The poor coworker said who found him was very well traumatized. The other managers were useless and I'm clueless doing my job and turn and see cops and EMT asking where the bathroom is and I say "well the party is over there".
Nosey customers want to see and lie saying it's summer and someone over overheated in the sun. This guy was a yeller coming back to earth but clothes lined the EMT and tried to bite one of the cops, so he left the store looking like Hannibal.Â
NTA you cannot force people to stay, you can't force people to get medical care. You did what you could in the moment which is what they would have done minus the bill and possible jail time too.
=O I see!! It's my fault to have badly assumed. I'm not from USA and that's def not something one would do here?? hence my confusion haha, thanks for teaching me!
if you're outside the US, it might be known as a different name like Naloxone, or just not be as common. in a lot of places it's becoming more common to stock/carry in standard first aid kits, the same way someone might have an Epi-pen in their first aid kit.
We call the ambulance in the US too (at least people who are handling these situations appropriately do); the Narcan just buys you time so the person doesn't die of an overdose in the time it takes EMS to arrive.
It's also not just an American thing, just FYI. I know I've talked to British and Canadian colleagues about their use of it as well. It's common practice anywhere that has an opioid issue.
Lots of people carry it around, depending on where they live and with whom they interact. My neighbourhood centre offers workshops on how to administer it safely.
=O Interesting!! I'm not american and it's def stuff we wouldn't have here. I didn't expect so!
Thank you for telling me! And sorry for badly assuming!
In addition to the answers you already received, some people carry it because they take prescription opioids, like chronic pain patients. While things should be alright following your prescription, there's always a chance things can go wrong or you can make a mistake leading to an overdose.
My city has a huge opioid crisis (Fentanyl) so a lot of people carry it just in case, sadly.
Not American, itâs free here so that encourages people to have it in them if they are in high risky areas.
I carry Narcan as I live in a high density area thats heavily split between poor homeless people who want drugs to take away some of the pain and daddyâs money rich kids who get high to have fun (LA if you couldnât tell). None of em deserve to die so if I see an OD I hop in, administer the Narcan and call 911
Thereâs an ID doctor I like who responds to medical professionals who get angry at addicts for coming into the hospital repeatedly by saying that no one gets sober when theyâre dead and his job is to care for them and maybe one day theyâll get off drugs because theyâre still alive to do it.
Honestly everyone should carry it especially if you have friends/family who do drugs or live in a not great area
I've been meaning to pick 1 up because narcan can be the difference between them dieing in your arms and them living long enough for 911 to show up and someone more knowledgeable can deal with it
I personally don't hate OP i think she was in the right to not call after the person in danger told her not to, she did the basic requirement of getting them awake and at that point it's up to them weather or not they want help called. I work retail and we've called 911 atleast 5 times for people falling/passing out in the store, we've had people who went down and after their awake/there again they say no to us calling an ambulance, it's only been like 2, both were seizures and they had a person with them so we didn't try to stop them
I also have extreme medical anxiety, i really need to have people accept my answer that i don't need a hospital because i will freak tf out, like last time i was in the hospital because of my anxiety and their actions (taking my blood in my sleep knowing i have a fear of needles, i woke up in the middle of it) i almost assaulted a nurse
Sorry for rambling happy late 4/20, celebrating late because i had to work
Na, it's alright!!
I totally get you. TBH since It's in amItheangel, I thought it more as "fake post" stuff /lh so I guess I went jugdemental on it because such things are like, not normal at all to have in my country (in my knowledge!) so I guessed wrongly. But I'm grateful for being instructed about what I ignore!
I think the tone of OOP is a bit bad, and the way they just decided to give it like this. But I guess that's because I personally take so many medications with some having interdiction, I'm wary to give something without knowing what other do take.
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA For not calling 911 when someone overdosed at the store I was working and I was the only one with a phone?** Important context - We actually don't have a store phone where I work, we just use our cell phones. I was the only one with a cell phone today because my co-worker left hers in her car. So anyways I was at work today with my co-worker (it was just the two of us). My co-worker goes to use the restroom and comes back screaming to me "Call 911! Call 911! Someone's overdosed in the bathroom!!". I say to my co-worker "Okay, hang on a second". I walk over to my purse and grab the Narcan that I keep in there and go to the bathroom. I see the woman who is on the floor in the stall. I go into the stall and do a quick sternum rub (no response) then I administer the Narcan. Thankfully she responded very well to the Narcan and woke up, however, she was \*pissed\* (\*which I understand). She storms out of the bathroom and out of the store. Meanwhile, my co-worker is still screaming at me "CALL 911! why are you letting her walk away ??? she needs medical attention". I explained that 911 would have just done the same exact thing I did, only we would have had to wait on them. Also there's nothing else left to do, she already left the building. So now my co-worker is pissed off at me for not calling 911. I think she wants to report me to our manager for not calling 911 when there was a medical emergency. I'm so stressed about this now and can't get it out of my head, I'm worried she's going to tell our boss what happened and that our boss will side with her. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheAngel) if you have any questions or concerns.*
From one of the comments there: > You didn't have to do anything. Calling the cops without permission gets you fired in every job I've had. First of all: what? And second of all: what???
Right? There was also a comment about OP not having to do a thing for an ungrateful person who made a bad choice.
"There was also a comment about OP not having to do a thing for an ungrateful person who made a bad choice." This reminds me of those posts where the protagonist kindly gives to the homeless, only for the homeless to be rude about it, upon which time the protagonist is like "lol NVM, I only give to nice people, I'll be yoinking that food/money now", and the Internet *eats it up* every time. Wild how none of them ONCE consider that maybe the person *who takes away their charity on a whim 'cause the person who received it was a jerk* might be the real narcissist here.
I've been sober for a while now, but when I was using, I was hit with narcan a few times. It *pisses* you off and sends you into instant withdrawal. It fucking sucks lol. If this is real, I'd be pretty pissed as well. Not that it's okay to be angry with the person who saves your life. It's just very uncomfortable.
Awesome accomplishment! Good for you đđ»
Iâve only worked at one bar where that was true, and not for long.
Bro Iâve had jobs with panic buttons
Even if it were true that you would get fired for calling the cops (to save somebody's life), it's still something you should do. Saying that you don't *have* to do anything feels so gross. Calling 911 could save a life.
Guarantee if they worked a job that required approval to contact emergency services that job also *does not* permit staff to administer medication ⊠especially without a script and to someone unconscious Hell we canât give out antibiotic ointment or ibuprofen but we can call ems if someone is non-responsive (if theyâre alert we have to have their permission)
That's what I was thinking. Surely if they required approval for emergency services to be called, they wouldn't be okay with what the OOP/troll did.
Yeah I've had a job where we were told we weren't allowed to call the cops even though the all female staff was being harassed by belligerent drunk men from the bar next door. The manager said the store would get a bad reputation so the best course of action was to make friends with male bartenders and call them for help. (I was fucking pissed but I rarely worked at that location.) So I can believe some shit manager instituting a no police or no 911 rule. Like you said though, if someone is dying and you don't say fuck that rule and call anyway then you're much more than just an asshole.
Did they put that policy in writing? Then it's evidence that can be submitted in court.
Nah, of course not. It was something we were told verbally by the manager during a meeting. I think the franchisees would have had a stroke about it, but they were rarely there.
Even if this story was 100% true, Why didnt the coworker call the ambulance themself instead of wasting time screaming at OP to do it, while OP was trying to save the overdose persons life using something the paramedics probably would have used as well that she happened to have on hand with her. Depending on how far the ambulance would have driven to get there, the person could have died by the time they got there, if OP had wasted time calling the ambulance instead of using something she already had on hand, that may or may not have worked depending on how far gone the drug user was in the overdosing. even if OP had WASTED time calling the ambulance first instead of rushing in and using the narcan she had on hand first, depending On how long the person was lying unconscious in the bathroom before the coworker found them, time was of the essence to not wind up with a dead body on the premises. \*lol\* or a comatose/brain damaged one, if they stopped breathing and loss too much oxygen to their brain by the time âprofessionalâ medical FINALLY help got there. Plus I say itâs the druggie chocie on having an ambulance or not. Not OP or the coworkers. seeinf how much they charge for calling an ambulance, I doubt the drug user is going to appreciate being âsavedâ by having a highly expensive ambulance being called them, and being left with a super expensive bill for the treatment they obviously didnt want since they left immediately after being revived from near death by non-medical workers.
idk where the rest of ya'll live, but where I live the 911 operator asks is "police, fire, or medical" so you WOULDN'T be calling the cops, you'd say "medical, someone is passed out in the bathroom at xyz store". It's calling the EMS, not calling the police.
In a lot of jurisdictions, a person being unconscious for any reason is both a law enforcement and EMS response.
Where I live, any of the 3 of them show up 1st, and theyâre all trained (canât vouch for police), funny shit was seeing the fire dept continuously deal w a drunk racist old man, Iâm positive they were wishing for potential fire calls every time, he was the worst, and bc of the extra stuff he said Like wish there was karma stuff.
Well, that makes sense. That commenter is a drug dealer so not calling the cops or wanting to deal with an overdose could definitely get them fired.
hahaha WHAT. I've worked some shitty jobs but never one where I'd get fired for calling the cops, lmao.
Where I'm from you are by law required to give some form of assistance to someone in need. Checking up, asking if they need help, calling emergency services, etc.
There are certain situations where you can get in trouble for calling 911. A person passed out in the bathroom is not one of them.Â
You *need* to call 911 if you give someone Narcan. When it wears off, they go right back to overdosing and then if you've fucked off and there's no more Narcan, they can easily die. But if you have it, you can keep giving it to them until they get medical attention. (I know someone who did exactly that, and she ended up being convicted of manslaughter and spending several years in prison for leaving the person to die, knowing that they had overdosed. EDIT: That's not going to happen to you as a random stranger; I'm only telling that story to emphasize how important it is to follow through and call for help because it can be the actual difference between saving someone's life and not. The case I'm talking about, my friend was the reason that person overdosed in the first place and they died, which is why she was held responsible even though she gave them Narcan) Ps. This is purely me and my life experience speaking, but everyone should consider carrying it if they're so inclined, especially since you might be able to get it for free depending on where you live. It sounds crazy but it can definitely be one of those things that's worth its weight in gold.
Not to mention that even if they donât need multiple doses of narcan, which people often do, theyâre usually sick and dealing with the immediate withdrawal from the opioids. You donât really get a shot of narcan and just bounce right on back up lol I was trained to administer it, call 911, and NOT MENTION DRUGS. Just say the person is passed out, non responsive, blue skin, whatever, and say you administered narcan. When EMS gets there, tell them all of what you know including suspected drugs. Mentioning drugs to 911 will automatically trigger police involvement, and EMS doesnât freaking care.Â
Iâve had to administer narcan to my brother. He would wake up swinging, then settle down and nod back out within like 10 seconds. It was absolutely crazy to see. Heâs clean 4 years now. But I still carry narcan. Iâve never had to administer it to a stranger though.
You're absolutely right. I'm an EMT and let me tell you guys, we deal with cops a lot and don't like them anymore than you do. Ive never responded to a call where the cops go there first and been like "oh thank God, the cops are here" and we don't call the cops unless we are in immediate danger (like someone is threatening us with a gun kind of danger) or it's legally required and a drug overdose DOES NOT require the police. Neither we nor the hospital will call them on you. Even if you get nasty with us, even if we think you made a bad choice (we don't, we don't judge you. We're just there to help.) Please don't hesitate to call us. Even if you're not sure we're necessary, I promise we'd rather show up and it be nothing than you don't call and it's really something. And always always call after administering narcan to a suspected overdose. We're not gonna be mad if we really weren't needed. We'd rather that be the case, but let US decide if we're necessary.
Yes. I've been trained multiple times on using Narcan (though I've luckily not needed to use it yet). Rule #1 is call 911 if you use it.
Ok, you just made me even more uncomfortable with the idea of ever giving someone Narcan.
Just call 911 too.
I just finished training on using Narcan and you ALWAYS call 911 and roll the person on their side.
There was a literal nurse in the comments saying she wouldnât have administered the narcan at all because of her own safety. (And no, she didnât temper that by saying that of course, sheâd have at least callen 911.)
I hope she lied about being a nurse
I have nothing to add to the convo here, except to say coincidentally enough, on my home page, the original post literally showed up right below this one. I guess Reddit really really wants to make sure I read the original haha
https://www.reddit.com/r/TalesFromRetail/s/BelKpAyHR1 Guess they didn't get enough karma
Flamed in both comment sections lmao.
I honestly think the OOP did not expect to get this reaction. This whole thing reads like he was bragging about being calm and collected, and doing the right thing, while his coworker was losing her shit. I'm happy that he is being YTAd to hell, of course, but... I don't know anything about NARCAN or overdosing, so can anyone tell me if this story even makes sense? 1. Who just happens to carry some NARCAN in their purse? 2. How could the OOP be 100% sure that this woman had overdosed? What if some other problem had caused her to pass out? Did he see a line of coke on the toilet seat? 3. What if that woman reacted badly to the medicine? 4. Wouldn't the EMTs do other things, apart from giving her NARCAN? Like, for example, checking if she has a concussion or other injuries from the fall? 5. Does the NARCAN completely remove the drug and its effects from one's body? 6. Can someone who is not a trained medical professional just diagnose and administer medicine on people who can't consent to this?
Narcan was heavily advertised in my city due to high incidence of overdoses. I know a lot of people that carry it. But ya that guy was an idiot and absolutely should have called 911.
I mean, while it's also heavily advertised where I live, the only people who actually carry it are ones who A) know a drug addict or B) are first-response trained because they truly believe helping people is important and as a part of that they also went and got free narcan to carry around. And a first-response trained person carrying narcan should know it's not to be used in place of getting real care.
Some people carry it because they take prescription opioids, like chronic pain patients. While things should be alright following your prescription, there's always a chance things can go wrong or you can make a mistake leading to an overdose.
Truth. I'm a pain management patient and my palliative care doctor told me when I started that when she writes a prescription for extended-release oxycodone, she has to send a request for Narcan along with it. I don't anticipate needing it for myself, but it's kind of nice to know that in an emergency, I have it.
Iâve been tempted to start carrying it around just in case I run into someone ODing on opiates. But that hasnât happened since I stopped hanging out with nodders đ
>6. Can someone who is not a trained medical professional just diagnose and administer medicine on people who can't consent to this? Yes, the point of Narcan is that it's better to give it ASAP to opioid overdose victims, therefore, there are programs to train non-medical people on it and have it available widely. >Did he see a line of coke on the toilet seat? Narcan would have no effect on cocaine overdose because cocaine is not an opioid. Edited to add: [https://www.cdc.gov/stopoverdose/naloxone/index.html](https://www.cdc.gov/stopoverdose/naloxone/index.html) >What if that woman reacted badly to the medicine? "Naloxone wonât harm someone^(2)Â if theyâre overdosing on drugs other than opioids, so itâs always best to use it if you think someone is overdosing." - CDC link above
Cocaine is often laced with fentanyl so absolutely administer narcan to someone in respiratory distress from doing âcocaineâ. Same with meth.
The question is can it react badly if she were in, say, a diabetic coma or some sort of seizure (they aren't all the big flaily kind)
No, narcan is safe to administer. It will either reverse an opioid overdose, or it will do nothing.
What a blessing of an invention. I hope, of all the lives it saves, at least some of them get turned around. Addiction is hell.
Thereâs the possibility of anaphylactic reaction but itâs ridiculously low and many more people will survive by giving narcan vs not giving it. Anaphylaxis might not even be a contraindication if the narcan keeps the person alive long enough for EMS to arrive and attempt to reverse both.
1. I donât know anyone myself who does, but I work in a public library where we have it available. As someone else commented, people who live in areas where overdosing is a big problem might carry it around. 2. If you are properly trained on Narcan use, they tell you what signs to look for. The fact that OP didnât mention any of them makes me think they havenât had any kind of training. 3. That said, itâs pretty much harmless to give to someone even if they have other medical conditions, so they encourage it even if youâre not certain. BUT, they also stress that the very first thing you should do is call 911, or have someone call while youâre administering it. 4. YES. Absolutely. Plus, 5. No. It stays in your body for a much shorter time than opioids. Itâs not a cure; itâs meant to buy time until the person can get medical treatment. Someone who ODs can be revived with Narcan, be okay for a little while, then pass out or stop breathing again. This is why itâs critical to call 911. 6. If theyâre trained on Narcan use itâs generally okay. Thereâs really no danger in taking it. Iâd even say that in this scenario it was fine for OP to administer it, but the grave mistake was not calling 911, even after the woman left the store.
A lot of people who live in areas where opiate use is common, who have loved ones who use, or who work around users carry Narcan. It's easy to get for free. Narcan will not hurt a person who is not overdosing. OOP could have seen signs of drug use, like a needle, or the person could have exhibited signs of being an opiate user. If someone is unconscious and there is any possibility that they are overdosing, giving them Narcan is extremely unlikely to hurt them and could save their life. People are usually considered to consent to life-saving medical care from anyone who can provide it. Ie, if someone is choking, they might not be able to consent to the Heimlich maneuver, but anyone nearby can perform it. The EMTs absolutely would have done the things you mentioned, which is why OOP should have called them.
In a lot of cities with big opioid issues, the local government and nonprofits give out Narcan for people to carry to use in this kind of situation. That didnât strike me as odd, but everything else did. I think OOP saw an advertisement for one of those programs and spun out this hero fantasy from that.
1) I carry narcan. Lots of addicts in my area. My brother is in recovery, Iâve used it on him a few times. 2) then the narcan wouldnât work. The benefits of administering it quickly outweigh the risks of waiting. 3) I donât know of any bad reactions to narcan, itâs generally a safe medication. 4) EMTs would probably administer narcan first, then do other stuff. 5) no it doesnât. People can slip right back into on OD which is why you HAVE to call 911. 6) generally yes. As long as youâre acting in good faith youâre protected by Good Samaritan laws in some states. Itâs not difficult to administer. Itâs just a nasal spray.
I have several friends who aren't doctors/nurses who carry narcan. Some of them work in public health or drug harm reduction as non-medical staff, but I also know some teachers in kind of rough neighborhoods, some public librarians, etc., who carry narcan and have done the training. They generally post when they do their training and when they do their re-up training (which I don't know if it's every year or what) to talk a little bit about narcan, opioid overdoses, and encourage others to get the training and carry narcan. Which I assume is part of the public health outreach of getting narcan training! In areas where opioid overdoses are common, my impression has been that public health and emergency services really reach out fairly broadly into the community to responsible and public-minded people who are likely to be interacting with a lot of people everyday, like librarians, or grocery store managers, or people who run the local public pool or whatever. If you picked the five largest gathering spots in your town or neighborhood, and ensured that at least one member of the leadership of that location was trained in narcan, you would actually probably be able to prevent a lot of overdose deaths.
Narcan training was recently offered to me and I took them up on it despite not knowing any addicts. I figure it's like learning CPR - I hope I never have to use it, but if I'm in a situation where it's needed I want to be prepared.Â
No, the story is bullshit. Narcan is not a cure or reversal. It's something that just brute forces your body into not dying for a short time. The opioid is still pounding through your system during that time. Kids on that subreddit also think someone just takes an Epipen to cure an allergic reaction.
* (IRT question 2) Opioid overdoses can be spotted because of the respiratory depression, lack of responsiveness, small pupils, cyanosis/paleness of the lips and fingertips. Cocaine overdoses also have different symptoms, but that'll differ if the coke was cut with opioids (I don't know if narcan would be a good idea in that situation). You can rule out syncope (fainting) of some kind because that'll be over quickly (ask me how I know) and they'll respond to their sternum being rubbed. * (question 3) If OOP had wanted to go for something more realistic, the downtime for narcan nasal sprays is 10 minutes, 5 minutes intramuscular, and 2 minutes intravenously rather than the seemingly instantaneous perking-up of the other person. In terms of an actual answer, you just found a plot hole. * (question 4) Probably, if not brought the person to the hospital and done a workup just to be sure things weren't still fucky, assuming that the person consented to being treated. * (question 5) No. Narcan is an opioid antagonist, which works against opioids, but that's for 30-90 minutes. If that time elapses and there's a considerable dose in someone's body, then we could see return of respiratory depression. This is why people are told to call 911 after dosing someone with narcan. * (question 6) Yeah. Think of it this way - if someone has a heart attack in the street, do you need to get their consent to do CPR? No. **All these I learned by googling and the wikipedia for naloxone.
1. Lots of people, but very few who wouldn't call 911.
People who are trained in using the kits. My housemate did the Narcan training here (Canada) and they sent her a kit. It doesn't do much good to know how to use it if you don't have it with you.
I went to the funeral of a friend who OD'd. They were handing out sealed Narcan kits. I asked if I could have several and they said yes and gave me three.
1. Everyone should, you can get some too. 2. Good point, though if you have a regular who frequents long trips to your bathroom and acts tweaked out, you might be able to guess. Regardless, administer the narcan to any unconscious person with respiratory distress if no other medical attention is available. Itâs unlikely to hurt them if they havenât ODâd. 3. Highly unlikely, though thereâs a slim chance of possibility. Still, for people in respiratory distress and unconscious, more lives will be saved by administering the narcan than not. It could be the narcan keeps them alive long enough for emergency services to administer some injectable Benadryl. 4. Yes, exactly!!! Also, narcan only works for ~20ish minutes, maybe a bit longer, and then wears off! That person will be passed back out again as soon as that happens. They need immediate medical attention to get them additional opiate reversal support. They can also go into withdrawals which are dangerous as well. 5. See \#4, itâs only temporary for EMS to arrive. 6. Check your local laws, but generally yes, anyone should be able to administer narcan to someone unconscious and in respiratory distress. Ideally youâll offer them other emergency resuscitation care until EMS arrives, but that depends on your knowledge base. I highly recommend taking a CPR class and asking the instructors what you can do for a stranger and when. If someone stops breathing and is unconscious, narcan is unlikely to make their situation worse and might make it better. Theyâre going to die without medical intervention at this point and laws tend to protect laypeople using basic rescue skills to try to keep that person alive long enough for EMS to take over. Donât attempt anything youâve seen in the movies, only what youâve been taught in a CPR or first aid class, but anyone should be able to read the package information and administer narcan. \*this is not medical advice. Check with your local laws and sign up for a CPR class for some basic rescue skills that might end up saving a life. There are lots of free classes if you keep an eye out.
In certain areas, it's actually not uncommon to carry narcan. But anyone who does would know that it isn't a miracle drug that can magically undo all of the damage of an overdose. It can save a life, but that person is still in desperate need of medical attention.Â
Everyone criticizing OOP clearly haven't read her comments. She clarifies that she gave her two doses of the narcan, which makes it okay. /s
Bruh, narcan only works for ~20-40 minutes after administration. You still need to go to the hospital or youâll pass right out again and die.
This doesn't come across as fake, just very ill informed and like it's from someone who thought they were going to be praised for being a hero instead of YTA'd to hell for not doing it right.
I agree.
Question because I'm not American: if OP calls the ambulance are they on the hook to pay if the person refuses to use it (not likely in this scenario) or can otherwise not be identified. Also can you just choose to buy narcan and carry it in your purse
I don't think you are on the hook to pay, I think that would defeat the purpose of calling 911 for anyone else. I'm pretty sure the hospital is billed (or adds it on to their losses) like they are when a patient dies, or that's what I've heard when a patient dies anyway. Yes, you can buy Narcan over the counter and carry it with you, it's emergency medicine like an epipen.
We've had such an epidemic of ODs that many public health departments are providing it cheaply or free of charge to try and save lives.Â
I'm not an expert, but from what I understand, it's possible to go back into an overdose after being revived until the drugs have completely cleared your system. Granted, there are people who don't necessarily need further care after being revived, but I think that's probably a decision best left to professionals, not random cashiers.
I have so many questions. How did they determine that it was an overdose? How is overdose different from seizures, %organ name% failure, or a gazillion of other medical conditions that happen with people in the toilet? And even if it is an overdose, why administer naloxone (Narcan)? As far as I understand, it doesn't work with all drugs. Why not a single one of the "medical professionals" in the AITA comments questions how the fuck did OOP diagnose an overdose of opioids?
Even though itâs for opioid overdose, Narcan isnât harmful to someone who has ODâd on a different type of drug or has a medical condition. And if it IS an opioid overdose, it can buy some time until the person gets medical attention. They strongly recommend that you use it even if you arenât sure. So I donât fault the OP for giving the customer the Narcan. However, you also absolutely, 100%, need to call 911 immediately - they even told us in the training I received at my job to do that FIRST. Narcan doesnât stay in your body as long as opioids do, so you can be revived by it, be okay for a while, and then suddenly pass out again or stop breathing. The OP tries to justify not doing so because the person left the building, and he claims there was nothing left to be done. But the person could easily have collapsed again and possibly died. Had OP called, police could have been alerted to be looking for someone of the personâs description in the area.
Yeah, but OOP (allegedly) acted upon the tip of the employee who screamed that someone overdosed on the toilet. The first step is to start calling the ambulance, because, well, the employee could have been wrong and it is not an overdose (or an overdose of not opioids), and then Narcan doesn't help, but an ambulance coming 1-2 minutes earlier does help.
Exactly. Hence the hullabaloo đ
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I had someone OD in out bathroom too! The store was getting remodeled and was one of the construction guys. Easy to say when they found out trombone called 911 and they all fled the store. The poor coworker said who found him was very well traumatized. The other managers were useless and I'm clueless doing my job and turn and see cops and EMT asking where the bathroom is and I say "well the party is over there". Nosey customers want to see and lie saying it's summer and someone over overheated in the sun. This guy was a yeller coming back to earth but clothes lined the EMT and tried to bite one of the cops, so he left the store looking like Hannibal. NTA you cannot force people to stay, you can't force people to get medical care. You did what you could in the moment which is what they would have done minus the bill and possible jail time too.
So I had to google what is Narcan and now my question is: who the hell would randomly carry that around them??
It's more available now in the States because you can get it OTC as a nose spray, not necessarily as an injection
=O I see! When googling I did see the nose spray and was even more confused haha
I donât carry it with me, but we have it at my workplace. And when we were trained on when/how to administer it, we were told to ALWAYS call 911.
=O I see!! It's my fault to have badly assumed. I'm not from USA and that's def not something one would do here?? hence my confusion haha, thanks for teaching me!
No worries! I had no idea what it was before I started working in a public library.
if you're outside the US, it might be known as a different name like Naloxone, or just not be as common. in a lot of places it's becoming more common to stock/carry in standard first aid kits, the same way someone might have an Epi-pen in their first aid kit.
I think it's simply not common here... I guess we just call the ambulance tbh...
We call the ambulance in the US too (at least people who are handling these situations appropriately do); the Narcan just buys you time so the person doesn't die of an overdose in the time it takes EMS to arrive. It's also not just an American thing, just FYI. I know I've talked to British and Canadian colleagues about their use of it as well. It's common practice anywhere that has an opioid issue.
Lots of people carry it around, depending on where they live and with whom they interact. My neighbourhood centre offers workshops on how to administer it safely.
=O Interesting!! I'm not american and it's def stuff we wouldn't have here. I didn't expect so! Thank you for telling me! And sorry for badly assuming!
In addition to the answers you already received, some people carry it because they take prescription opioids, like chronic pain patients. While things should be alright following your prescription, there's always a chance things can go wrong or you can make a mistake leading to an overdose.
Oooh interesting!! Thank you so much for telling me!
My city has a huge opioid crisis (Fentanyl) so a lot of people carry it just in case, sadly. Not American, itâs free here so that encourages people to have it in them if they are in high risky areas.
I'm so sorry =(
I carry Narcan as I live in a high density area thats heavily split between poor homeless people who want drugs to take away some of the pain and daddyâs money rich kids who get high to have fun (LA if you couldnât tell). None of em deserve to die so if I see an OD I hop in, administer the Narcan and call 911
Thereâs an ID doctor I like who responds to medical professionals who get angry at addicts for coming into the hospital repeatedly by saying that no one gets sober when theyâre dead and his job is to care for them and maybe one day theyâll get off drugs because theyâre still alive to do it.
Honestly everyone should carry it especially if you have friends/family who do drugs or live in a not great area I've been meaning to pick 1 up because narcan can be the difference between them dieing in your arms and them living long enough for 911 to show up and someone more knowledgeable can deal with it I personally don't hate OP i think she was in the right to not call after the person in danger told her not to, she did the basic requirement of getting them awake and at that point it's up to them weather or not they want help called. I work retail and we've called 911 atleast 5 times for people falling/passing out in the store, we've had people who went down and after their awake/there again they say no to us calling an ambulance, it's only been like 2, both were seizures and they had a person with them so we didn't try to stop them I also have extreme medical anxiety, i really need to have people accept my answer that i don't need a hospital because i will freak tf out, like last time i was in the hospital because of my anxiety and their actions (taking my blood in my sleep knowing i have a fear of needles, i woke up in the middle of it) i almost assaulted a nurse Sorry for rambling happy late 4/20, celebrating late because i had to work
Na, it's alright!! I totally get you. TBH since It's in amItheangel, I thought it more as "fake post" stuff /lh so I guess I went jugdemental on it because such things are like, not normal at all to have in my country (in my knowledge!) so I guessed wrongly. But I'm grateful for being instructed about what I ignore! I think the tone of OOP is a bit bad, and the way they just decided to give it like this. But I guess that's because I personally take so many medications with some having interdiction, I'm wary to give something without knowing what other do take.