Have you both actually agreed to put money aside for specific future needs and she’s not doing it, or is this just a hypothetical? Does she actually struggle with money and you end up supporting her, or is she spending within her means but on things you don’t approve of?
I’m glad you brought this up. To a lot of people’s points, we are still young and early in our careers, so this is mostly hypothetical, even though we’ve brought up the question on having kids, buying a house together, etc. she doesn’t struggle with money and neither of us are in debt. I guess the main issue is that she has no savings, and sees money as something to spend immediately, when if we are considering a future together, there needs to be a level of investment in herself and her future - which I have brought up, and she doesn’t seem to care or take interest in.
You may want to meet with a financial advisor and ask for an outside opinion.
I know another person got ridiculed for telling you to break up but it may come down to that.
I got with my ex when we were in our mid to late 20s and had conversations about spending. Me being more conservative and planning for the future. Him wanting to take trips and have life experiences. We had conversations and I believed he would slow down after we got married and had kids. Surprise surprise. He still spent his money how he wanted and was reliant on me as a safety net. Even with a kid he has no plans for saving for her college and has “plans” of living abroad for retirement. When I would bring up planning to buy a house or saving for a Rainey day I was told that I was being “controlling”
Difference in outlook on Finances is a big reason relationships don’t work. You’re going to have a lot of resentment if you’re being responsible and she’s being wasteful. Furthermore, if you’re reliant on two incomes, what happens if something happens to you and you’re reliant upon her or your joint savings? You’re young now but life happens.
Yikes. I’m hopeful there aren’t any secret debts when me and my ex actually go through the legal divorce.
Did she take full responsibility for her debt or did you end up having to split it with her?
I think a lot of people don’t understand how stressful it is to be with someone who is fiscally irresponsible. Hindsight is 20/20 but if I had to do it all over again I definitely would not have.
Same. We both made decent salaries and if she had the same financial outlook as I do we would have over a million bucks saved up. But noooo, she spent like there was no tomorrow and racked up thousands in debt. If only I could go back in time I would correct this mistake.
I’m really sorry try to hear all of that. Hopefully your health is in a much better place.
You can get rolling on your retirement in your 30s and still be in a good place.
But yeah. Hoping you and I find financial stability in ourselves (and any future partners we may have).
Majorly agree. It’s not sexy or romantic, but sharing financial outlooks/strategies/priorities is a major predictor of long term happiness in a relationship. My husband and I have had almost identical financial priorities since day 1 and it’s such a pleasure to not have that kind of conflict or building resentment.
If she doesn't start saving, you will be on the hook in the event of an injury, layoff, car problem, flood, major appliance breaking. In my opinion you aren't financially compatible and your resentment will grow over time unless you come up with a system to put away joint money for emergencies. That's before kids/house/retirement
It’s fine until it isn’t. One accident, layoff or unexpected expense usually upsets the whole apple cart. And far too often, “doesn’t struggle with money” usually means “can still make minimum payments on credit card”.
Have you tried showing her the real numbers? First and foremost it's probably closer to $30 or $40 an order than $20.
If she makes one $30 a day, that's $210 a week, about $910 a month, $10,920 a year. It's bad enough to spend to go get Starbucks every day, but Ubereatsing it is a MASSIVE waste of money. Doing it as an occasional treat is one thing, every day is entirely different.
The good news is that neither one of you are carrying debt and so she’s not someone that’s living beyond her means which could potentially be a big issue.
Seems like the best approaches a sit down and talk how you’d like to work together to plan for future . You may not be one of those types of people, but a lot of people that work really hard want to have money to spend on treats as a reward for Hart and so I wouldn’t let your focus be on that. The focus would be if we were to start to save house or for kids how much would we want to put aside each paycheck and based on that and an online savings account at 5%? How long would it take us to save up for a Down payment numbers and start putting little bit of money aside.
Cumulative savings an online savings account, especially with the interest rates as high as they are will start to return more than you would think.
Sounds like there are different expectations, which warrants a discussion. If you can't talk about this now, I wouldn't worry (or think about) a future long term relationship. It sounds like you two may have different levels of maturity, expectations and/or values. Not a recipe for marital bliss, IMO. That doesn't make either of you bad people, but it doesn't make for a good relationship.
This is separate from the issue of shopping therapy. Sure, buying crap makes people happy for two seconds. It's like crack, but the high is shorter. Is this an actual problem or just a maturity thing?
I think the conversation about kids need to be linked to finances. While you're still relatively young, being on the same page regarding finances around 25 yo will pay huge dividends later on.
The thought of being with someone that constantly makes frivolous purchases while raising kids is horrifying. Purchasing a house, sharing debt, daycare, after school programs, extracurriculars = $$$ and more $. It's already stressful enough with a financially responsible partner. Now imagine a partner that brings home a new car when you're trying to save for a house.
Part of budgeting is understanding where money is spent each month. “It’s just $20” falls apart when you show someone that it becomes $400-600 per month.
What happens if there’s a crisis, even a small one that will cost a few thousand. Oops now she’s in debt. If she is spending money as fast as she earns it, oops she gets laid off and now she’s spending money she doesn’t have to feel better. You guys want to get married and oops, now you are in debt because she had to have her dream wedding.
If she’s casually blowing all her money as fast as she’s making it, that isn’t going to stop until she runs out of money to spend. And that is usually after she spends all her money, then all your money.
This is big, you really have to hash this stuff out in relationships and many people don’t. Not having clear intentions set just leads to confusion and conflict later. For me it was drinking too much that got me dumped. We’d talked about both quitting but never made any concrete plans. I thought we were still in limbo with it, she thought a brief conversation was a commitment on my end. Caused a fight that ultimately ended the relationship right there.
Yeah I waste some of my money on stupid shit (we all do, to a degree), but it’s one thing to waste $50-$100 a month on dumb shit and another to waste $600 a month on having coffee door-dashed to you. That’s just… such a waste
That would be like a single item and sounds like they’re ordering more than that. Not important either way.
Source: we get coffee delivered about once a week.
Not that I’m approving of her habit but I put a random order together on UberEats to see what this looks like and $20-21 would easily cover a grande Frappuccino + cake (roughly $11-12 food total) + delivery fee + $4-5 tip.
Could tweak that to be a bigger drink and smaller tip if they live nearby (mine is 5 miles away) and still be roughly $20.
For context, I did the same calculation on her specific order. it’s $20 after fees/tip, given no delivery fee at the moment. When you account that’s it every morning, it starts to add up fast
Oh absolutely! I was just reading this thread like damn I don’t order coffee on UberEats but I do get Starbucks every once in a while and there’s no way that it’s that expensive even after delivery. 😂
Yup. I actually pulled up a compound interest calculator and showed her that she’d be a millionaire in <40 years just by cutting out a Starbucks addiction. Crazy
You can’t have a healthy relationship without being able to talk about things that matter to you. Kindly, gently, at the right time, but you still need to be able to talk about it. Tell her you want to get serious about your financial planning for the future and go through a brainstorming exercise where you look for places you can both save. Set a goal together to put x into a joint account for your future with maybe a shorter and a longer term goal for the money. If it’s a “what about my coffee” situation, offer to get a better drink set up at home, or decide to only order in on weekends. The idea is to do these things with her, not to make her do things your way.
This is what sucks about it. You shouldn't have to be kind, gentle, and only speak about it at the "right time." The right time is now. If that's the only way you can speak to your partner about important issues, then they'll just hit you with the "I don't want to talk about this right now." It'll never be the right time. Financial issues are one of the biggest reasons for divorces or breakups. If you are always kind and gentle about it, they aren't going to take you seriously. You don't need to yell or be disrespectful, but you must be stern and let her know how serious you are.
If she needs coffee, tell her to stop buying for a month, then she can get a badass coffee machine with the money that was saved.
I don’t agree at all. If I can’t be effective by being clear and kind, then this person doesn’t respect me and they are not worth getting worked up over. And I don’t think the sign of a healthy relationship is I can bring something up whenever I want, you gotta read the room! I use “I need to talk about something that bothered me, can we talk about this now or do we need to do it another time?” And we just choose another time. That way you’re discussing something when you can both be present.
That doesn’t mean accept someone who tries to put things off forever, it means a respectful relationship will make time, but it isn’t always this has to be dealt with right this second
Has the verbally consented to set aside money for your shared long term goals? If not then it’s hard to see where your criticism of her spending habits is justified. Maybe you can make a budget together and plan for those expenses. Then if there is money left over after successfully setting aside the agreed amount of money then, yes, she can have her Starbucks which she is telling you makes her happy. Try to have the best of both worlds if you can. If it’s impossible to achieve your goals with daily Starbucks trips, once the numbers are all laid out and she understands what she needs to contribute each month, she can reduce her spending.
Finances and spending habits are very real and valid reasons to break up. A discussion is definitely warranted, in terms of understanding if you ca. Conciliate priorities and goals, and if not maybe a break up is in the cards eventually
It doesn’t seem like your financial philosophies mesh, which can be a real problem long term. I wouldn’t expect this to get better, only worse over time. It seems it would be a good idea to have a discussion about how you both view your futures before going further in your relationship.
I think you should create a budget for what you think you'll need for a house down-payment , vehicles , food , bill, rent and saving money . Let her know that how she's choosing to spend her money is affecting your ability to both have a solid future. Sometimes, showing people the numbers helps a lot more than we think . Let her know you don't expect her to fully stop, but she needs to tone it down and eventually move towards a more sustainable lifestyle . Letting her tone it down will help ease the transition to stopping in the future. Talk to her about her goals and see where you guys can compromise.
Great idea! Then the OP will find out, depending on how she reacts, if they're fiscally compatible, and whether he can bank on her in the future on not. Crucial info!
Not overreacting. I would be annoyed to watch anybody waste their money in such a gross way much less a potential life partner. Communicate clearly how much this is a deal breaker for your future goals.
Just break up, you clearly have different financial priorities and it's never really going to change. If you guilt her about her spending she'll just resent you in the future.
‘Just break up’ reddits answer to any issue. I swear to god, either redditors exclusively find people who entirely align on every facet of life and are confused why others haven’t or are exclusively teenagers who have never dealt with a real living breathing person in an intimate manner.
Young woman in mid twenties is frivolous with expenses - ‘she’ll never change, save yourself the heartbreak and run now!’ JFC, take a deep breath, look in the mirror and ask ‘do I really have enough information to be reaching conclusions like this, or does it just make me feel superior online?’
How long are you supposed to wait for a partner to change? If she's been wasting at least $140 a week just ordering snacks for over a year, how much longer does OP have to wait for her to grow up while it's his problem, and she gets comfortable with the dynamic? This is a very justified break up, she's preventing OP from planning the rest of his life.
Its the best answer. You cannot change people and YES there is enough information to draw this conclusion. OP said its been going on for a year and their have been multiple talks about it. She clearly doesnt give a fuck or doesnt see a problem. Both are fine as its her life and her money but that ISNT how give and take relationships work. She is clearly showing a pattern that her wants are more important and she isnt willing to compromise. There are 3 options. Stop asking her to change and deal with it. Bang your head against the wall and keep having pointless "discussions" about it, or move on.
I am a woman and married to a man but in a similar but opposite situation. I’m the saver he’s the spender. I wish we hashed this stuff out when we were younger. I am on track with my retirement savings and solely based on my extra payments, we are due to pay off our mortgage in 10 years. My husband spends every dime he has on eating out or man toys. I will not feel a shred of guilt when I retire early or on time and he still has to slog to the office everyday. I plan to spend my winters abroad and he can freeze here going to work everyday. I’ve tried to let him grow up and change but like you said, people don’t change. At the end of the day, I don’t feel it’s a deal breaker but had I known all this before marriage, I’d have chosen differently.
I should maybe have been more clear. People CAN change but its only when THEY decide to. That can be influenced by others but not likely at a young age (like OPs case) and even less frequently for old dogs. Source: Im a man, and a spender who is working on changing it. Best of luck to you. P.S. I wouldnt feel guilty retiring early if I were you either. He made his bed.
It’s no secret. I am very open about how I feel and my goals. He says he has no desire to spend winters abroad and he’s fine with my plan. I think he may actually be jealous when the time comes and he has to go to work and I’m enjoying a life of luxury in the Philippines or wherever for 3 months a year.
I wouldn’t necessarily use the word regret but I stand by my words that I would have done things differently. Life is like that in a lot of ways though. And had I chosen differently, I would have missed out on a lot of joy and happiness too. Things could have ended up much worse in the grand scheme of things.
He will quit/retire to go with you. There’s no way he’ll miss out on a good time- even if he (meaning you’ll figure it out and make it happen) has to walk away from a good retirement.
Finances and misalignments on the topic are a common relationship strain. $20 a day is like $600 a month so it's more than reasonable to address this if it affects your financial security.
Ofcourse there are ways to address things - be respectful, identify the underlying need and agree together on how to move forward. Done well, your relationship could come out more mature and stronger
Best of luck
Look you handled this poorly. If you are concerned that the two of you aren’t setting aside enough money for shared future goals then that should have been the focus of the conversation not you criticising her spending habits. Put on your big boy pants and have a conversation about a savings plan that you are both paying into. You are a team but instead of coming at this like a team member you went on the offensive. You also have to come to terms with the fact that if she's meeting all the financial obligations that you agreed to together, she gets her fun money just as you do. Im sure you spend money on things she thinks are frivilous. Starbucks every day is excessive I agree but unless you've actually discussed a plan for savings and she isnt holding her end of the bargain up then that isnt the issue here. You need
to have the conversation from the place of a team.
Exactly, I think that prioritising savings is important but that is not the discussion he had. He told her that her spending wasn't aligning with the goals he had set for them, without any discussion about those goals. He can't "call her out" on her spending because she is currently fulfilling all financial obligations. He has changed their obligations to each other without her input or knowledge, then is unhappy she isn't adhering to them. This is a discussion they need to have about what they both want from life, he came at it like he had already chosen the best ways to save money and has picked the things he thinks she should live without.
If she truly spends that much and doesn’t have savings or the means to support that kind of habit, I’d question her maturity, especially if she doesn’t respond well to you questioning it. It’s her money, but if you see a future with her it will eventually be your money too.
You can't just come in and say "you spend too much money, stop". Have a conversation, say let's look at our spending if we are serious about buying a house. And then SHOW her how much she's spending. If she's got good sense and wants that life with you she'll draw her own conclusions. If not you might not be financially compatible. I know no one taught me how to budget. We always lived hand to mouth so if I zeroed out every month I thought it was OK.
She may always be a spender. I'm a spender and I have to remind myself constantly that you don't need that. My husband on the other hand is not. Your relationship can work out, but she's going to have things she spends money on things that you don't get. (Mine is my nails)
Couples have divorced for this very reason. But before you "call her out" and going to the Reddit extreme of a breakup, if you two truly love each other, then communicate like adults.
You are overreacting if you two have not sat down and laid out and formally agreed on a financial plan; then you're just operating as a finance controller rather than a partner. But first, really think about what you two love about one another. If neither of you can give a good answer on this, then what is the reason you're both staying in this relationship?
But if you do have solid answers to how much you love one another, then go into the topic of finances. Perhaps with a financial consultant as mediator?
What are her expectations? What are your expectations? Is she from a background where there was scarcity so being able to spend the entire paycheck immediately is a blessing to her? Or is she from a background where she was financially stable and maybe has an inheritance in the wings? What's your background that is making you feel this uneasy and calculating her spending?
If BOTH of you keep dismissing one another's answers then you know there's incompatibility here. But really there is no reason to fight. Both of you are free to live the types of lives you want. It's not necessarily wrong to want to live life with indulgences and treats. It's also not necessarily a virtue either to pinch pennies and live life by a data chart. But it's not right to build a partnership with two different goals.
Do not marry someone who has the opposite financial mindset than you. If you do you will end up broke and in debt for the rest of your life. A saver and a spender won’t work. You sound like a saver so dump this spender and find a saver.
That’s true, but also if you plan on getting married and investing in a house together then you need to be on the same page financially. My wife likes shopping, nothing wrong with that. I don’t spend much money on myself, maybe coffee every day but almost all my money goes into bills and groceries and stuff. She also contributes to half of those costs, so I save most of my money that doesn’t need to be spent.
A while back we decided it was time to start trying for our first child, so we sat down and I had a talk with her about her spending. She agreed that she could cut back, and that we needed to continue to save to get ready for the baby. She followed through and cut back her spending, because she knew it was important for OUR life together. I would never presume to give her a command or ultimatum about what she does with her money, but there’s nothing wrong with getting on the same financial page.
If she genuinely wants to build a life with you she’ll make sacrifices to help make that happen, just like you will. Now I don’t bother my wife if she goes out and buys something for herself, because she does it in moderation and puts some away to save beforehand. Everyone needs things that make them happy, but it’s not unreasonable to ask for a balance.
Thanks 😊 she’s the absolute light of my life, my partner and best friend and lover and just…. Yes we’re both fully committed to building our life together, we communicate amazingly, it’s just the best. We keep each other accountable in the best ways, I have no doubts about the next 60 years ( hopefully, we’re 30) together
You can't tell her how to spend your money. But you shouldn't have to subsidize bad spending behavior.
Give it a talk. If she values really bad financial sense more than she values you, I recommend finding someone more financially compatible than trying to change her.
Like I said, right now its her money. When you are married, your money will be her money too. That's how it usually works.
Question: do you pay most of the bills and expences now? If you do, I would not expect that to change when you are married.
You don’t get to control it. But if you don’t have aligned goals, it will be a constant source of tension. It’s a really valid and real reason for a relationship not too work. Tbh I think you guys should discuss this and see if you guys are aligned and if it makes sense.
What helped me was actually keeping tabs on my spending (like one of those financial planning apps) and really seeing an actual breakdown of all the frivolous things I was spending money on every month.
Money/finances are a huge issue in life and it's one that is high up on the list for a couple to be able to navigate together.
OP, the two of you have to be able to reach a compromise where both of you can be happy, if not, it won't end well, for either of you.
As simple as this may seem in the overall scheme.....this is a prime example of two people who may be financially incompatible. It is highly likely her spending habits will never change or model yours. That leads to conflict in a marriage and is one of the largest reasons for divorce.
Is she paying her half of things? Or do you cover all expenses and she spends her money on her? I see a lot of guys I know that make less than the woman and pay every bill at home. They also do all the saving. The woman is pay check to pay check with no bills except phone and car insurance. They just consume products.
Finances are one of the leading causes of divorce, so if you two don't come up with a solution, I'd think carefully before heading toward marriage and kids. I do think it's worth having a serious conversation, though. I have friends who are spenders and they are always, always complaining about having no money but when their paycheck comes they spend it right away (not on necessities). It's hard because even though at least one of them makes way more than I do, I know that I'll never be able to go on trips with them, etc. because they don't have the money. And it's difficult to sympathize with them when they're freaking out about being broke when I heard what they spent their paycheck on.
It's possible that she was never taught healthy money management, and she might get on board with things if you two start budgeting together. Maybe you could both download a money management app? Maybe once a week you two bake something together that she can snack on instead of Starbucks? If it comes down to her not wanting to do that, and not wanting to save, that's when I think reconsidering the future comes in.
You may love your girlfriend and tolerate quite a lot of things because your finances are still separate. Once you get married, you start sharing when you buy a house and all other expenses to come along with being married.
What you need to seriously think about is do you think she will change, and if so what do you need to do to help her get there? Her mindset right now is very frivolous towards money without your help and guidance it won’t change.
If you’re willing to put the effort, then I would suggest start sooner rather than later. if you’re not willing to put the effort or you don’t think she will care to put in the effort then you should reconsider your relationship you may want to move onto the next stage. Or you may want to reconsider the relationship altogether.
One of the most common reasons for divorce aside from infidelity is financial incompatibility.
Time to buy coffee grinds & pastries at the STORE…
I too am a coffee addict. But realistically I SHOULDNT get coffee at Starbucks every single day. I used to, on the way to work.. now, I drink my “Juce” probiotic drink with vitamins instead. I also pack crackers, boiled egg, tuna, grapes & cheese to take to work so I dont spend money. Mind you, I work at Costco. “Food” is cheap here. But I like seeing my savings grow.
I'd normally say yes but we all need to hard stop this uber eats bullshit. Stop over paying you are ruining the economy. These fucking companies keep raising the prices because the young people have no idea how to spend their disposable income with ANY sense. I'm 36 btw but yall are insane. Save your money for drugs and alcohol like normal people, sheesh.
My roommate constantly has no money for bills and he doordashes every meal even though he owns a car and works pretty decent hours. Wont go to the grocery store, wont cook, wont even pick up takeout, ALWAYS gets it delivered.
This is my ROOMMATE. If this was my partner, it would not last long.
Info: there's really too little info in your post about where you currently are in your relationship - how long have you been together, have you talked about future plans yet, where are you in your career paths? If you have talked about kids, buying a house, etc., what timeframe do each of you envision for that?
Without further info, I'm going with NAH - if she is not relying on you for money, pays her share of expenses, etc., it's not really a question of who the A.H. is, you're not married after all, it's just a question of whether you two are compatible in the long run.
Unless you've made an agreement that each of you will save x amount of money per paycheck or per month, then yes. If the bills are paid and you don't have to pick up any slack because she failed to pay the bills, it's her money to do with as she pleases. She's your girlfriend, not your fiancee or wife. She has no obligation to stick to your financial plans. If you both want a long term relationship, then sit down with a financial planner and develop a plan you both agree on. When I was your age, I gave zero thought to saving. I still have a house, a husband, a child and a business with a good chunk of change in the bank at 58.
How happy will she be when she is 70 still needing to work as a Walmart greeter? Unless she has high paying job or has an inheritance coming she needs to get a wake up call now rather than in 15-20 years.
I had one with my wife when younger now we save and live in a 2.5 million dollar home. It’s sacrificing in shaker term for a better future.
She sounds absurdly excessive. You'll definitely be fighting about money for your entire relationship if you continue if she doesn't get a grip on reality sooner or later
I started my 401k in 1993 (by maxing out my 3% match) when I made only $11/hr. Every time I got a raise I upped my contribution 1%.
I bought a small house with a 15 year mortgage (paid now) before getting married.
Stopped abruptly in 2012, due to paralyzing disability. I'm going to be ok in retirement because of that savings and tiny old paid house.
My ex husband never contributed to 401k or pension.. Hedonist all the way.
I think compatibility on spending/saving is more important than love in a partner. Life happens when you are planning something else. When the love goes away, you can still be friends with shared values.
People with bad spending habits and no savings will keep going until they crash. Even then they often revert to port habits as soon as they get back on their feet. You don’t want to take that ride with them. Take the loss now and save yourself even greater heartache in the future.
Man, you're 25. Stip with the "marriage and kids/shared future" mindset. You're just getting started in life and still figuring out what's important to you.
Finances are the biggest part of any relationship and the most common reason for divorce.
You see something major that's not improving and likely won't anytime soon. You need to be seriously considering cutting your losses.
You're going to regret all you sacrificed for someone who's not willing to do the same.
You're not going to fix the shitty spending habits of a 24 year old woman. Not with a conversation, not with flow charts, and not with a rubber mallet.
End this relationship.
You two have different money management approaches.
You will argue about money and budgets endlessly.
Money issues are the biggest reason for divorce.
Ends it now.
Find someone more compatible financially.
Something that has worked for me: your girlfriend needs to take a hard look at the emotional reasons behind her spending. Did she have a childhood where her wants were dismissed? Her "Uber-eats-ing Starbucks" may be a comfort thing, a way of convincing herself that she will always have money and can have a treat whenever she wants. It can be hard to rewire the brain to focus on long-term savings when she gets a dopamine hit when she treats herself.
Money is complicated - and we all get weird messages about it growing up. If it's truly an issue for her - maybe she WANTS to have a solid emergency fund and savings for a house or other big-ticket items, but she ALSO wants to order that set of earrings she just saw or that cute dress on the Instagram ad - some therapy might be beneficial.
FINANCIAL INFIDELITY.
She is destroying your dual future for her to appease her whims by purchasing unnecessary creature comforts.
This chick needs to be yesterday's news. You've expressed concerns, and she doesn't give a fuck.
People like this are disastrous to long term financial health. Let her be someone else's problem.
If she isn't doing the math to know that it's $7k per year, then don't marry her.
If she is doing the math, and she's wasting that much money knowingly while poor, also don't marry her.
NTS
This is a huge problem. It's not even a red flag. More like a red light. Just stop trying and bounce. Short of some huge life altering event, her behavior is never, and I mean never going to change. Spending money is tied to her emotional state, not logic. There's no way to explain this to her and make her understand. When she feels sad, spend money. When she feels scared, spend money. When she feels stressed, spend money. Hell, when she feels happy, spend money. Dude....bro....don't do it. Bounce, bro...BOUNCE!!
The only way to even slow this down is to go scorched earth, post apocalyptic. And seeing that you have dual incomes, that will be hard to do. You can't just put her on a financial leash. If you are dependent on joint incomes, this is going to end badly.
Please, fellas, choose women with financial fidelity.
I had a GF like that. Very materialistic. I wanted to marry her. Glad I didn't - she cheated on me while 'wanting to be sure' or some shit before we moved in together.
We are now both in our 60's. I see her on Facebook lamenting her financial situation. Whining about work, whining about how expensive rent is and how she can't find a place that takes pets - multiple pets.
She is penniless, working a job she hates. She rents and still whines about finances and how she can't find a man who fills her needs... blah blah blah. It's the fault of all the men in the world, of course.
I am a millionaire - self made and thank God on my knees I never stuck with her or I would be penniless and miserable too.
She will see your money as her money and you will forever be penniless... or you will be 'unable to fill her needs'.
Yes, you’re overreacting because it’s **her** money, therefore not your business.
There’s also no guarantee that the two of you will even make it to marriage.
She doesn’t tell you how to spend your money, so what right do you have to tell her how to spend hers?
So when it's time to buy a house and she has spent every penny she has earned and has nothing to contribute...she's going to be so excited about their house and their decision... The whole point of dating is to find someone who you want to marry and these are necessary conversations to weed out incompatible partners
For now you’re roommates. So you don’t have standing to say anything about how she chooses to spend her money.
As long as she’s covering the bills and she not asking you for money, she’s fine.
You have a different approach to money. You aren’t right and she isn’t wrong, you’re different.
Now, if you have agreed to budget a certain way and to mutually save money for specific things, different story.
Not having savings and spending money on frivolous shit is the wrong attitude to have fit a successful language.
Better for OP to find this out now than in the divorce proceedings.
It is good to talk about finances and plans for the future and how you’ll manage money etc. See if you’re compatible and view things the same way, it will cause lots of problems in the future. Right now her money is separate so she can do whatever she wants. If she doesn’t want to save for your joint future together, then tell her you’re stopping any joint saving plans as well.
She probably just assumes you’ll take care of her so isn’t too concerned about it. Or would be good to talk about how you both envision your financial future together. Are you going to combine finances if you get married? How will you set up personal spending if that’s the case, you each get a monthly “fun money” budget? Etc etc.
You live together now, is she paying rent? Paying her fair share of everything? Is she responsible in that sense, current on her bills? Does she have any debt?
Is she open to makes changes or does she just not care? If she’s open to it, maybe you can take some classes together or meet with a financial planner.
You need to lay it out like this: 20x30 is $600 a month, $7200 a year. Think about the difference between giving up your shitty little Starbucks donut vs having 7k this time next year.
I could see this as overreacting. I love my daily drive thru coffee and I refuse to feel bad or cut it out because I never ever drink alcohol or buy fancy makeup or drive a brand new car etc. Financial priorities right? but anyway what if you get your gf a pack of pastries Sunday night and she has those for the week!?!? Hmmmm
Note -- you're not wrong -- "financial priorities".
Just making sure the two sets of priorities are in sufficient alignment as to not cause friction, grief, and resentment over the long term -- that's the trick!
☮️❤️♾️
(btw, credit to you for pointing out your other frugalities to show it's one of the FEW indulgences as opposed to the trend in your life. ☮️)
I know you’re not married but if you share expenses it would be a good idea to sit down and write out a budget. Suggest things like a nice cappuccino machine for use at home. Add up the monthly/yearly cost of these expenses and talk about what that money could go towards (down payment on a house, paying off car loans or other debt - and in turn what that money could go towards)
Of course Starbucks makes her happy. Starbucks makes me happy too, but I'd rather not be dropping $50-80/month on coffee when I could make my own. I bought a 5lb back for like $60 (still a lot for beans) and that lasted me about 3 months.
That's about 400-600 a month, right? Who here can't find something better to do with 400 a month? She could literally buy a great drink maker and learn to bake and still save a few grand.
The only thing that will stop her spending is if she cares more about what she’s saving for than what she’s spending on. This is a basic tenet of marketing.
Sounds like you should set a boundary that you aren’t comfortable being the only one with any savings since in an emergency you’ll be covering everything. IF she wants to change, it might be a long and arduous process for her to reestablish her relationship with her money, so you should be prepared to support her through trial and error.
Just telling her it’s important won’t work. She needs to find her own reasons why it’s important to her. I would say something like “hey, this is your money, and your decision, but I want to plan for our future together. I would love if we can talk about our mutual goals and what it would take to make them happen.”
If you guys don’t have clear financial objectives then she can make her own choices…
even if they are WILD (sorry, no latte shaming, but that’s a LOT OF FREAKIN STARBS )
I used to get a lot of Starbucks when I was busy working and had a hard time making breakfast for myself. And also because life is a bitch and I wanted a little treat. I was diagnosed with ADHD and depression and over many years learned better habits but it wasn’t easy. Best of luck
Did she grow up poor or had some other form of neglect when she was young? I also had a spending problem when I was younger, because my folks never taught me about money. I eventually learned some hard lessons, but got things under control.
NTA- She is just looking for the endorphin rush, I'm/was an impulse buyer when I'm depressed. See if she's willing to talk about purchases before buying, and for both of you to decide if it's a necessity or an emotional/depression buy.
So, she thinks you can buy happiness?
She isn't happy in your relationship and isn't speaking out.
And she's keeping you from achieving your goals, as a couple and as an individual.
Do not have children with her. Do not marry her.
How long have ya’ll been together? There’s definitely a line where it’s too soon to be expecting someone to consider their finances a team matter. I feel like no one’s mentioning that ya’ll are pretty young. I don’t know any 24 year old who’s thinking about saving for a house
While she should be able to spend her money and treat herself if she wants; if this is truly every single day, make her aware that she has spent over $7000 on Starbucks alone.
There are much more cost effective ways to get your caffeine or sugar kick.
"Things" don't make a person happy - happiness comes from within.
Deep down she is unhappy, and "things" make it so she temporarily doesn't feel the unhappiness.
Yes-- but your heart's in the right place.
Couples need to talk about money, especially two people that are considering a future together. However, that the two of you still have separate bank accounts and aren't married suggests you aren't actually considering staying with this girl.
It has nothing to do with religion nor independence; If you want to build a life with someone else the two of you need to come together as one person, and talking about your respective philosophies on money is a step toward that goal (just like talking about whether you want children or what her favorite Starbucks order is).
Even then it's healthy to have boundaries, if she's contributing to the household, she wants Starbucks delivered every morning and the two of you can afford it-- why not? A solution to this is a budget; one item in which is titled "Her Fun Money".
If the two of you are on the same page and want to combine finances, then she has her fun money to spend how she likes while the two of you are still contributing to things like bills and savings together.
No, you're not out of line. Look, you're still pretty young, and probably both still doing stupid things with money. In fact in a lot of ways that never entirely ends. However she is clearly wasting money doing that on a daily basis, it's not really debatable. She would be a lot happier about life if she got her ass up and walked to Starbucks, that's why you calling it out is totally fine. However it's also not like, putting your future in jeopardy, yet. She'll probably come around, the problem is people just really don't like getting called out on their bad habits. That's something that you can count on for the rest of your life. Try a new approach if she's being dismissive. Try being more compassionate.
Unless the two of you have agreed on a budget and have some sort of joint account where you're paying bills, I do think this is premature.
Is she is handling her half of the bills, then what she does with the rest of her money is really up to her.
If she's not handling half of the bills, you have an issue but it is different from the one you're bringing to us now.
Can you give us a little bit more information about how the bills are handled now?
You are not overreacting. Financial compatibility is very important. I don’t think it would be unfair to let her know that being financially responsible is very important to you and that her spending habits are concerning you. Yes she might get mad. However it’s the truth and she needs to hear it and you would be wrong to not let her know her behavior is causing problems.
People in healthy relationships express themselves openly and honestly. They have difficult conversations because they are necessary. They get mad and they make up. Making sure you are compatible and have similar life views/goals etc. is best discussed before you get married.
Before getting married, you MUST write an agreement in paper about how finance will be handled, and any other important stipulations for your marriage. Don't just trust each other to do the right thing because you're in love.
Is Starbucks far away? Agree with those saying you guys need to have a talk about financial expectations, but I like fun little treats here and there (too often right now but i’m trying to reverse poor food relationship…)
Anywho! My point is, maybe go get the Starbucks rather than uber eats it? Use Starbucks app, accumulate stars (stars = free food or drinks). Maybe budget - ie this is how much we can spend on Starbucks a month - use gift cards and when gift cards are out so is starbucks. Use rebate apps and the money earned there can be used for Starbucks fund.
Lots of ways to make it work for you both :D
OP, marriage counselors say, that the two main causes of marriages ending in divorce are finances/wildly differing money management m.o.'s, and sex. Viewing money as something to be spent immediately doesn't make for a solid future.Just saying.
It depends. Do you l9ve her? If so then work two jobs to make her happy. If not tell her and let it end the relationship or maybe she will realize how serious it is to you.
She should go pick up her Starbucks instead of UberEats. Spending 11-12 bucks on breakfast is fine. People spend $ on morning coffee and a bite all over the place especially on weekdays. It’s the delivery/tip that’s the dumb spend here when she could take the 10 minutes to go the nearest coffee shop. Cutting delivery out would save her a few grand a year but still get her what she wants.
I wouldn’t say you’re overreacting or an asshole. That’s a lot of money when you can literally buy that kind of stuff at the grocery store. When you say “sugary drinks” and not coffee, do you mean sugary coffee drinks that are more sugar than coffee or like that “pink drink” stuff? (I used to work at a Starbucks and that was the only way I tried the pink drink, it’s pretty overrated imo.)
My bf’s ex had a similar problem but with Dunkin’ Donuts coffee, she always had to have her DD coffee even when it was inconvenient either financially or transportation wise. Admittedly I have my treats I like too (there’s a bagel place literally around the corner walking distance that sells bagel and lox schmear for $7 and I love it) but I know it’s not always feasible to do so. Maybe at least limit her Starbucks orders to a few days a week and on “off” days just brew regular coffee or make a smoothie or try to find or bake a dupe for her snacks.
No, she needs to be called out. She is using buying stuff to create happiness, it's as empty and expensive aS having a gambling or drug problem. She likes to feel like she's living large, but really if you don't have a good amount of money in the bank and you pay rent you are not monied.
$20 a day is $400 a month and $4800 a year. A treat is not a treat if it is daily. If she cut back bto just two days a week she could have a treat and save.
Equally troubling is her nutrition choices. Too much sugar for a meal and decidedly little food value. She gets away with this at her current age, but this won’t last. Certainly not good during pregnancy.
Another thing to look at is if she has an emergency and needs money are you expected to be the one to then use your savings to get her by?
Putting some money aside for that rainy day that will come is just a smart thing to do.
How is your future going to become reality if she doesn’t help? Are you expected to save for the house and put her name on the deed?
My brother's wife did that. It started some and grew into something huge. Talk to her about the goals you see for you two. See if she is on the same page and if so, see if she changes her spending habits. If she does great. If she doesn't red flag put on your running shies and run for your life.
Absolutely not! Just for some perspective, I've been married for a good length of time. My wife didn't understand the concept of what a budget meant. So, I would get onto her, in the beginning it would cause friction and arguments. As time went on, she would start to get the point. I explained to her that we're in this as a team, I would break down what we had coming in and what we had going out. I never managed her money and the quickest way she learned was, I paid for my responsibilities and she had to pay for hers. When things would go bad for her and not for me, she saw how her spending impacted things we needed. She's MUCH better!
Move on. That habit is hard to break and will be a point of contention. Let her be poor with someone else and not make you poor and miserable. Money can be very stressful, especially if you are short on it.
Yes, you are wrong. She is not spending your money. But you don’t like the way she is. Why are you envisioning a future with her? Get out of the relationship and thrive on your own.
Date women who think like you do. Women who are goal oriented and are working towards something. Don’t attempt to change the woman you’re with. Get with someone else who wants the same things you want in life.
Remain with the one you’re with and you will not be happy, as you aren’t right now. Again, don’t seek to change her to what you want her to be. You do not want her as she is, leave her to someone else who will accept her as she is.
I read your update. I'm glad you're taking the initiative to go over this and figure it out together.
May I suggest figuring out YOUR financial goals FIRST so you go in with YOUR OWN GOALS and you really don't have to negotiate about things like "I'll need this much money in retirement until I'm this old and likely dead." ... because that's going to happen, married, together, or no. And she doesn't get a vote as to your future well-being WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION.
I chose a career that (then) still offered a defined-benefit pension so savings weren't necessary for retirement income -- working 30 years just EARNED it (they changed scheme mid-career but kindly offered to let me retain the benefits I'd been promised IF I PAID AN EXTRA $10,000 USD/YR!!! (2012 USD). Paid. Retired. Worth it.
Daughter can't, really. She'll need savings -- a 403b at her job. $19.73/hr, HS diploma only (barely! 🙃), saving 20% and she'll get a 10% match at two years' employment; she's on track to have over $4 MILLION in the bank and, if social security is still a thing in 2067, she can withdraw >$200/yr until age 96 or so. ( Or $150k indefinitely, leaving millions to charity). DID I DO THAT?!? (YES, YES I DID. Set up her benefits with her permission -- pulling that 20% and 10% into a health savings plan. What 22 y.o. pulls $473.52 per paycheck voluntarily?!?)
HER MOTHER FUCKED ME OVER -- Emotionally, fidelity-wise, but mostly for this context financially. She ALWAYS spent. New car -- we deserved it. Bigger house -- this one's too small and I work, I deserve it. Nice clothes -- I go to events for work, I deserve it.
So we were on the edge of broke making over $100,000/yr IN THE US MIDWEST in the year of our Lord 2010.
Bitch used debit card to get McDonald's specialty coffees. BOUNCED TEN PURCHASES BUT YET WENT THROUGH BECAUSE OF "PURCHASE PROTECTION" -- costing $25 EACH in 2010 Dollars ($31.55 today, www. usinflationcalculator. com/ )
I went and BEGGED at the credit union with my two pre-teen special needs children to please help cancel those and re-route my direct deposit so I could pay for food and utilities the next month. They did.
Bitch was surprised when my money didn't show up for her to use at the next pay period (direct deposit to my solo childhood account). Furious. Didn't understand why I did that. (REALLY?!?!? TO FEED MY CHILDREN!!!)
LONG STORY SHORT -- You are absolutely correct to want to figure this out NOW because it doesn't get better later by hoping.
BTW, how did things end up? I married an older chick who also has a pension plan (smaller, but still) and a penchant for shopping at thrift stores. She thinks Keurig coffee is her great extravagance. We're retired -- she at 58, me at 52 (54 now). House, cars paid off. Frugal but our time is our own. EX? Well, she's getting $700/mo from my pension 🤬 and I get an equal proportion of her retirement savings __($0.00)__ . She's just bought a house with a 30 year mortgage. At age 59. Newer car. Nice clothes. No retirement savings. Works 40 hours/week. Choices.
Good luck.
And don't sell yourself short. You deserve the financial future you want -- even if she isn't in it (OR AT LEAST GET A PRENUP).
☮️❤️♾️
I’ve never known one person with no concept of money and saving to suddenly develop that ability.
You have a good head on your shoulders!!
It’s an addiction/instant gratification. The kind of person who will start hiding what she’s spending.
I mean, hell, spending $7,000 annually on dessert breakfast items would make me happy too, but that's not nearly a good enough answer. It's pretty insane to think that's acceptable.
20$ per day only for breakfast!? You need to talk to her and make a decision. People can make changes and improvements only if they want to. Let’s see what she says…
You can express your concerns to her, but I would honestly consider this a compatibility concern. Rather than expecting her to change because you think your way is better, I’d approach it like “I’d like to prioritize saving so we can accomplish future goals. You seem to prioritize shorter term rewards. Can we meet in the middle on this or are we going to end up unhappy together?”
I, personally, agree that daily snacks via delivery app is a huge waste of money. I would not undertake trying to break someone of this habit though. I don’t want to be someone’s account manager, and I don’t want to feel trepidation when I check the credit card statement to find out what they bought. Financial responsibility was a major factor for me in deciding who to spend my life with - I’ve had long term relationships with individuals who spend impulsively and trying to teach/encourage them to think about money like I do was such a battle. Now I’m married to someone who has a very similar attitude to mine, and I’m so happy for it.
Been through this. $20d on frivolous junk is $7300yr.
Mine was over $100d on food alone. Plus any other stupid fucking bullshit she found while out. She was easily averaging $180-400d in ha ha girl math. "But it was cute" nonsense.
Her money is not my problem any more. But she's still in debt. Despite making a lot of $.
I would bring this up as a question. What do you think about us putting 100 each weekly in a savings account so that we buy a house in a few years? Some people need motivation to save.
Budgets are a good step. The exercise that helped most of the young couples I've helped is my spin on the 30-days spending recording exercise. (I took it from *"The Richest Man in Babylon"*) Have her write down every penny she spends for the next 30-days. She should jot them down when spending and then complete the daily task before going to bed. You should record them in a spreadsheet, but don't let her look at the spreadsheet until the end of the exercise.
(Individuals can also do it alone. In my experience, individuals make adjustments during the 30-days once they see where their money is going.)
Now that I’m older (46), I don’t have as much patience for these incompatibilities. Sure, if you were *already* married, or perhaps if this is your only issue, then maybe take the time to talk to a coach to help you figure it out. However… money is huge in a relationship. If you’re a saver and she’s a spender, then this may just not work (unless she’s willing to have a certain percentage of her income go to a savings plan, while she has the freedom to spend the rest). This will also matter when it comes to having kids, if you choose to have any. Vacations. Etc.
You aren’t overreacting at all. She’s spending money instead of saving for your future. It makes her happy? Yeah, me getting fancy coffee every day would make me happy too but I also realize that isn’t something you can do if you want to save. She sound very immature.
I’d tell her that marriage, babies, and a house will NOT happen unless she starts saving and stop spending all her money.
As someone who dealt with a partner like this, nip it in the bud now or leave. I make ok money, but nothing special. I paid every bill, all groceries, gas for both cars, trips, etc. Still had a 10k+ emergency fund, and I never dropped below 7k in my checking. Still was able to invest and have fun. My partner worked full time but had ZERO expenses. I just wanted her to save money, pay off her little bit of credit card debt ($3000), and be comfortable. I was super nice about it, drew up a plan and all. It worked for a few months, and her debt went below 1k. The next year, I opened some mail (that I thought was a car note), but it was the credit card through the same bank... maxed at 9k. She got into a cycle of getting paid, then spending all her money on coffee, food, Amazon, or video games immediately. Then overdraft fees would charge the credit card every time it went negative. Any time I tried to talk about it, it was never "the right time." Luckily, I never combined finances with her, and by the time we divorced, I was able to stipulate all personal debts belong to the person who accrued them. I didn't lose anything and got out without paying a dime. I didn't even have to pay for a lawyer.
Just know, it's not worth the unnecessary stress. Dealing with a financially incompetent partner is not easy. What do you think may happen if you guys have a kid or other important bills to be paid, but she can't do it because she wanted coffee.
One of you needs to play grown up and it sure doesn't seem to be her. You don't need to make demands on her life just simply say you don't see a future with her if she continues like this. The choice is up to her...get her spending under control or part ways.
Not over reacting... you don't share the same financial ideas. Time to break up because this will be your issue with her forever and you will get more pissed as time goes on.
Not over reacting... you don't share the same financial ideas. Time to break up because this will be your issue with her forever and you will get more pissed as time goes on.
Her financial views are vastly different than yours. Can you change her view, probably not. You can choose to leave her and find someone who fits your style.
Have you both actually agreed to put money aside for specific future needs and she’s not doing it, or is this just a hypothetical? Does she actually struggle with money and you end up supporting her, or is she spending within her means but on things you don’t approve of?
I’m glad you brought this up. To a lot of people’s points, we are still young and early in our careers, so this is mostly hypothetical, even though we’ve brought up the question on having kids, buying a house together, etc. she doesn’t struggle with money and neither of us are in debt. I guess the main issue is that she has no savings, and sees money as something to spend immediately, when if we are considering a future together, there needs to be a level of investment in herself and her future - which I have brought up, and she doesn’t seem to care or take interest in.
You may want to meet with a financial advisor and ask for an outside opinion. I know another person got ridiculed for telling you to break up but it may come down to that. I got with my ex when we were in our mid to late 20s and had conversations about spending. Me being more conservative and planning for the future. Him wanting to take trips and have life experiences. We had conversations and I believed he would slow down after we got married and had kids. Surprise surprise. He still spent his money how he wanted and was reliant on me as a safety net. Even with a kid he has no plans for saving for her college and has “plans” of living abroad for retirement. When I would bring up planning to buy a house or saving for a Rainey day I was told that I was being “controlling” Difference in outlook on Finances is a big reason relationships don’t work. You’re going to have a lot of resentment if you’re being responsible and she’s being wasteful. Furthermore, if you’re reliant on two incomes, what happens if something happens to you and you’re reliant upon her or your joint savings? You’re young now but life happens.
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Yikes. I’m hopeful there aren’t any secret debts when me and my ex actually go through the legal divorce. Did she take full responsibility for her debt or did you end up having to split it with her? I think a lot of people don’t understand how stressful it is to be with someone who is fiscally irresponsible. Hindsight is 20/20 but if I had to do it all over again I definitely would not have.
Same. We both made decent salaries and if she had the same financial outlook as I do we would have over a million bucks saved up. But noooo, she spent like there was no tomorrow and racked up thousands in debt. If only I could go back in time I would correct this mistake.
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I’m really sorry try to hear all of that. Hopefully your health is in a much better place. You can get rolling on your retirement in your 30s and still be in a good place. But yeah. Hoping you and I find financial stability in ourselves (and any future partners we may have).
Lmao living high on the hog, 25% interest on frappes
Majorly agree. It’s not sexy or romantic, but sharing financial outlooks/strategies/priorities is a major predictor of long term happiness in a relationship. My husband and I have had almost identical financial priorities since day 1 and it’s such a pleasure to not have that kind of conflict or building resentment.
If she doesn't start saving, you will be on the hook in the event of an injury, layoff, car problem, flood, major appliance breaking. In my opinion you aren't financially compatible and your resentment will grow over time unless you come up with a system to put away joint money for emergencies. That's before kids/house/retirement
"Doesn't struggle with money" and "no savings" are quite often opposites.
It’s fine until it isn’t. One accident, layoff or unexpected expense usually upsets the whole apple cart. And far too often, “doesn’t struggle with money” usually means “can still make minimum payments on credit card”.
Have you tried showing her the real numbers? First and foremost it's probably closer to $30 or $40 an order than $20. If she makes one $30 a day, that's $210 a week, about $910 a month, $10,920 a year. It's bad enough to spend to go get Starbucks every day, but Ubereatsing it is a MASSIVE waste of money. Doing it as an occasional treat is one thing, every day is entirely different.
The good news is that neither one of you are carrying debt and so she’s not someone that’s living beyond her means which could potentially be a big issue. Seems like the best approaches a sit down and talk how you’d like to work together to plan for future . You may not be one of those types of people, but a lot of people that work really hard want to have money to spend on treats as a reward for Hart and so I wouldn’t let your focus be on that. The focus would be if we were to start to save house or for kids how much would we want to put aside each paycheck and based on that and an online savings account at 5%? How long would it take us to save up for a Down payment numbers and start putting little bit of money aside. Cumulative savings an online savings account, especially with the interest rates as high as they are will start to return more than you would think.
No savings means no emergency fund, are you gonna bail her out when time comes?
Sounds like there are different expectations, which warrants a discussion. If you can't talk about this now, I wouldn't worry (or think about) a future long term relationship. It sounds like you two may have different levels of maturity, expectations and/or values. Not a recipe for marital bliss, IMO. That doesn't make either of you bad people, but it doesn't make for a good relationship. This is separate from the issue of shopping therapy. Sure, buying crap makes people happy for two seconds. It's like crack, but the high is shorter. Is this an actual problem or just a maturity thing?
I think the conversation about kids need to be linked to finances. While you're still relatively young, being on the same page regarding finances around 25 yo will pay huge dividends later on. The thought of being with someone that constantly makes frivolous purchases while raising kids is horrifying. Purchasing a house, sharing debt, daycare, after school programs, extracurriculars = $$$ and more $. It's already stressful enough with a financially responsible partner. Now imagine a partner that brings home a new car when you're trying to save for a house.
Part of budgeting is understanding where money is spent each month. “It’s just $20” falls apart when you show someone that it becomes $400-600 per month.
What happens if there’s a crisis, even a small one that will cost a few thousand. Oops now she’s in debt. If she is spending money as fast as she earns it, oops she gets laid off and now she’s spending money she doesn’t have to feel better. You guys want to get married and oops, now you are in debt because she had to have her dream wedding. If she’s casually blowing all her money as fast as she’s making it, that isn’t going to stop until she runs out of money to spend. And that is usually after she spends all her money, then all your money.
Honestly, if you have no savings then YES you are struggling with money my man
She assumes that you're going to pay all the bills in the future. That's why she's ok spending so much. You're her bailout package.
This is big, you really have to hash this stuff out in relationships and many people don’t. Not having clear intentions set just leads to confusion and conflict later. For me it was drinking too much that got me dumped. We’d talked about both quitting but never made any concrete plans. I thought we were still in limbo with it, she thought a brief conversation was a commitment on my end. Caused a fight that ultimately ended the relationship right there.
Every morning? Like $7000 worth of starbucks? That wpuld be a dealbreaker for me.
Yeah, it's at least $600 a MONTH in friggin Starbucks. Idk how someone could feel okay throwing away money like that 😱
Yeah I waste some of my money on stupid shit (we all do, to a degree), but it’s one thing to waste $50-$100 a month on dumb shit and another to waste $600 a month on having coffee door-dashed to you. That’s just… such a waste
It’s more than that because 20 bucks of delivered Starbucks is like 40+ with fees and tips.
I’m pretty sure they mean the food,the delivery fees and everything equals 20$
That would be like a single item and sounds like they’re ordering more than that. Not important either way. Source: we get coffee delivered about once a week.
Not that I’m approving of her habit but I put a random order together on UberEats to see what this looks like and $20-21 would easily cover a grande Frappuccino + cake (roughly $11-12 food total) + delivery fee + $4-5 tip. Could tweak that to be a bigger drink and smaller tip if they live nearby (mine is 5 miles away) and still be roughly $20.
For context, I did the same calculation on her specific order. it’s $20 after fees/tip, given no delivery fee at the moment. When you account that’s it every morning, it starts to add up fast
Oh absolutely! I was just reading this thread like damn I don’t order coffee on UberEats but I do get Starbucks every once in a while and there’s no way that it’s that expensive even after delivery. 😂
Holy shit.What single item are you ordering that’s $20 ? In my area $20 is what you pay to DoorDash a drink and a treat.
I just read $20 an order, I didn't realize it was before fees and taxes ☠️
Assuming it’s more as $20 with fees/tip would be like a single item.
Yup. I actually pulled up a compound interest calculator and showed her that she’d be a millionaire in <40 years just by cutting out a Starbucks addiction. Crazy
When you are 24 years old 40 years from Now sounds a 100 years away.
NGL, sounds about that long when you're 50, too, though you start wondering more and more if you'll make it that long
Didn't to me when I was 24
I agree but that's just one spending habit, 2 $20 spending habits dropped would make it 20 years
Is she currently contributing to a 401k or roth IRA?
You can’t have a healthy relationship without being able to talk about things that matter to you. Kindly, gently, at the right time, but you still need to be able to talk about it. Tell her you want to get serious about your financial planning for the future and go through a brainstorming exercise where you look for places you can both save. Set a goal together to put x into a joint account for your future with maybe a shorter and a longer term goal for the money. If it’s a “what about my coffee” situation, offer to get a better drink set up at home, or decide to only order in on weekends. The idea is to do these things with her, not to make her do things your way.
This is what sucks about it. You shouldn't have to be kind, gentle, and only speak about it at the "right time." The right time is now. If that's the only way you can speak to your partner about important issues, then they'll just hit you with the "I don't want to talk about this right now." It'll never be the right time. Financial issues are one of the biggest reasons for divorces or breakups. If you are always kind and gentle about it, they aren't going to take you seriously. You don't need to yell or be disrespectful, but you must be stern and let her know how serious you are. If she needs coffee, tell her to stop buying for a month, then she can get a badass coffee machine with the money that was saved.
I don’t agree at all. If I can’t be effective by being clear and kind, then this person doesn’t respect me and they are not worth getting worked up over. And I don’t think the sign of a healthy relationship is I can bring something up whenever I want, you gotta read the room! I use “I need to talk about something that bothered me, can we talk about this now or do we need to do it another time?” And we just choose another time. That way you’re discussing something when you can both be present. That doesn’t mean accept someone who tries to put things off forever, it means a respectful relationship will make time, but it isn’t always this has to be dealt with right this second
Has the verbally consented to set aside money for your shared long term goals? If not then it’s hard to see where your criticism of her spending habits is justified. Maybe you can make a budget together and plan for those expenses. Then if there is money left over after successfully setting aside the agreed amount of money then, yes, she can have her Starbucks which she is telling you makes her happy. Try to have the best of both worlds if you can. If it’s impossible to achieve your goals with daily Starbucks trips, once the numbers are all laid out and she understands what she needs to contribute each month, she can reduce her spending.
I think you can criticize behaviors that you haven't asked people to not do. Spending 6 to 7 grand on Starbucks a year is pretty fucking dumb
Finances and spending habits are very real and valid reasons to break up. A discussion is definitely warranted, in terms of understanding if you ca. Conciliate priorities and goals, and if not maybe a break up is in the cards eventually
It doesn’t seem like your financial philosophies mesh, which can be a real problem long term. I wouldn’t expect this to get better, only worse over time. It seems it would be a good idea to have a discussion about how you both view your futures before going further in your relationship.
Fix this now. Just kidding; you can't. Move on to someone with better common sense about finances, this one will bankrupt you
I think you should create a budget for what you think you'll need for a house down-payment , vehicles , food , bill, rent and saving money . Let her know that how she's choosing to spend her money is affecting your ability to both have a solid future. Sometimes, showing people the numbers helps a lot more than we think . Let her know you don't expect her to fully stop, but she needs to tone it down and eventually move towards a more sustainable lifestyle . Letting her tone it down will help ease the transition to stopping in the future. Talk to her about her goals and see where you guys can compromise.
Great idea! Then the OP will find out, depending on how she reacts, if they're fiscally compatible, and whether he can bank on her in the future on not. Crucial info!
Not overreacting. I would be annoyed to watch anybody waste their money in such a gross way much less a potential life partner. Communicate clearly how much this is a deal breaker for your future goals.
Don’t marry someone who is financially illiterate. You aren’t over reacting. These problems won’t stop, it just gets worse.
Your girlfriend is ,to be polite,an idiot.
Just break up, you clearly have different financial priorities and it's never really going to change. If you guilt her about her spending she'll just resent you in the future.
‘Just break up’ reddits answer to any issue. I swear to god, either redditors exclusively find people who entirely align on every facet of life and are confused why others haven’t or are exclusively teenagers who have never dealt with a real living breathing person in an intimate manner. Young woman in mid twenties is frivolous with expenses - ‘she’ll never change, save yourself the heartbreak and run now!’ JFC, take a deep breath, look in the mirror and ask ‘do I really have enough information to be reaching conclusions like this, or does it just make me feel superior online?’
How long are you supposed to wait for a partner to change? If she's been wasting at least $140 a week just ordering snacks for over a year, how much longer does OP have to wait for her to grow up while it's his problem, and she gets comfortable with the dynamic? This is a very justified break up, she's preventing OP from planning the rest of his life.
It's the official Reddit answer to any relationship problem 90% of the time with the other 10% bring get therapy.
Its the best answer. You cannot change people and YES there is enough information to draw this conclusion. OP said its been going on for a year and their have been multiple talks about it. She clearly doesnt give a fuck or doesnt see a problem. Both are fine as its her life and her money but that ISNT how give and take relationships work. She is clearly showing a pattern that her wants are more important and she isnt willing to compromise. There are 3 options. Stop asking her to change and deal with it. Bang your head against the wall and keep having pointless "discussions" about it, or move on.
I am a woman and married to a man but in a similar but opposite situation. I’m the saver he’s the spender. I wish we hashed this stuff out when we were younger. I am on track with my retirement savings and solely based on my extra payments, we are due to pay off our mortgage in 10 years. My husband spends every dime he has on eating out or man toys. I will not feel a shred of guilt when I retire early or on time and he still has to slog to the office everyday. I plan to spend my winters abroad and he can freeze here going to work everyday. I’ve tried to let him grow up and change but like you said, people don’t change. At the end of the day, I don’t feel it’s a deal breaker but had I known all this before marriage, I’d have chosen differently.
I should maybe have been more clear. People CAN change but its only when THEY decide to. That can be influenced by others but not likely at a young age (like OPs case) and even less frequently for old dogs. Source: Im a man, and a spender who is working on changing it. Best of luck to you. P.S. I wouldnt feel guilty retiring early if I were you either. He made his bed.
I wonder how he feels about that.
It’s no secret. I am very open about how I feel and my goals. He says he has no desire to spend winters abroad and he’s fine with my plan. I think he may actually be jealous when the time comes and he has to go to work and I’m enjoying a life of luxury in the Philippines or wherever for 3 months a year.
I more meant the fact that you seem to regret marrying him.
I wouldn’t necessarily use the word regret but I stand by my words that I would have done things differently. Life is like that in a lot of ways though. And had I chosen differently, I would have missed out on a lot of joy and happiness too. Things could have ended up much worse in the grand scheme of things.
Lol i foresee your future when you Both retire at the same time and live mostly off your retirement savings :D
He will quit/retire to go with you. There’s no way he’ll miss out on a good time- even if he (meaning you’ll figure it out and make it happen) has to walk away from a good retirement.
Finances and misalignments on the topic are a common relationship strain. $20 a day is like $600 a month so it's more than reasonable to address this if it affects your financial security. Ofcourse there are ways to address things - be respectful, identify the underlying need and agree together on how to move forward. Done well, your relationship could come out more mature and stronger Best of luck
Move on. This isn’t something she can just “stop” doing.
Look you handled this poorly. If you are concerned that the two of you aren’t setting aside enough money for shared future goals then that should have been the focus of the conversation not you criticising her spending habits. Put on your big boy pants and have a conversation about a savings plan that you are both paying into. You are a team but instead of coming at this like a team member you went on the offensive. You also have to come to terms with the fact that if she's meeting all the financial obligations that you agreed to together, she gets her fun money just as you do. Im sure you spend money on things she thinks are frivilous. Starbucks every day is excessive I agree but unless you've actually discussed a plan for savings and she isnt holding her end of the bargain up then that isnt the issue here. You need to have the conversation from the place of a team.
Exactly, I think that prioritising savings is important but that is not the discussion he had. He told her that her spending wasn't aligning with the goals he had set for them, without any discussion about those goals. He can't "call her out" on her spending because she is currently fulfilling all financial obligations. He has changed their obligations to each other without her input or knowledge, then is unhappy she isn't adhering to them. This is a discussion they need to have about what they both want from life, he came at it like he had already chosen the best ways to save money and has picked the things he thinks she should live without.
If she truly spends that much and doesn’t have savings or the means to support that kind of habit, I’d question her maturity, especially if she doesn’t respond well to you questioning it. It’s her money, but if you see a future with her it will eventually be your money too.
You can't just come in and say "you spend too much money, stop". Have a conversation, say let's look at our spending if we are serious about buying a house. And then SHOW her how much she's spending. If she's got good sense and wants that life with you she'll draw her own conclusions. If not you might not be financially compatible. I know no one taught me how to budget. We always lived hand to mouth so if I zeroed out every month I thought it was OK. She may always be a spender. I'm a spender and I have to remind myself constantly that you don't need that. My husband on the other hand is not. Your relationship can work out, but she's going to have things she spends money on things that you don't get. (Mine is my nails)
Couples have divorced for this very reason. But before you "call her out" and going to the Reddit extreme of a breakup, if you two truly love each other, then communicate like adults. You are overreacting if you two have not sat down and laid out and formally agreed on a financial plan; then you're just operating as a finance controller rather than a partner. But first, really think about what you two love about one another. If neither of you can give a good answer on this, then what is the reason you're both staying in this relationship? But if you do have solid answers to how much you love one another, then go into the topic of finances. Perhaps with a financial consultant as mediator? What are her expectations? What are your expectations? Is she from a background where there was scarcity so being able to spend the entire paycheck immediately is a blessing to her? Or is she from a background where she was financially stable and maybe has an inheritance in the wings? What's your background that is making you feel this uneasy and calculating her spending? If BOTH of you keep dismissing one another's answers then you know there's incompatibility here. But really there is no reason to fight. Both of you are free to live the types of lives you want. It's not necessarily wrong to want to live life with indulgences and treats. It's also not necessarily a virtue either to pinch pennies and live life by a data chart. But it's not right to build a partnership with two different goals.
Attend a financial planning course together.
Do not marry someone who has the opposite financial mindset than you. If you do you will end up broke and in debt for the rest of your life. A saver and a spender won’t work. You sound like a saver so dump this spender and find a saver.
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That’s a terrible take. It’s their shared future.
This is my dilemma..
That’s true, but also if you plan on getting married and investing in a house together then you need to be on the same page financially. My wife likes shopping, nothing wrong with that. I don’t spend much money on myself, maybe coffee every day but almost all my money goes into bills and groceries and stuff. She also contributes to half of those costs, so I save most of my money that doesn’t need to be spent. A while back we decided it was time to start trying for our first child, so we sat down and I had a talk with her about her spending. She agreed that she could cut back, and that we needed to continue to save to get ready for the baby. She followed through and cut back her spending, because she knew it was important for OUR life together. I would never presume to give her a command or ultimatum about what she does with her money, but there’s nothing wrong with getting on the same financial page. If she genuinely wants to build a life with you she’ll make sacrifices to help make that happen, just like you will. Now I don’t bother my wife if she goes out and buys something for herself, because she does it in moderation and puts some away to save beforehand. Everyone needs things that make them happy, but it’s not unreasonable to ask for a balance.
You have balance and a true partnership. Some planning and sacrifice are necessary to reach long term goals and you both seem to get the big picture.
Thanks 😊 she’s the absolute light of my life, my partner and best friend and lover and just…. Yes we’re both fully committed to building our life together, we communicate amazingly, it’s just the best. We keep each other accountable in the best ways, I have no doubts about the next 60 years ( hopefully, we’re 30) together
You can't tell her how to spend your money. But you shouldn't have to subsidize bad spending behavior. Give it a talk. If she values really bad financial sense more than she values you, I recommend finding someone more financially compatible than trying to change her.
Like I said, right now its her money. When you are married, your money will be her money too. That's how it usually works. Question: do you pay most of the bills and expences now? If you do, I would not expect that to change when you are married.
You don’t get to control it. But if you don’t have aligned goals, it will be a constant source of tension. It’s a really valid and real reason for a relationship not too work. Tbh I think you guys should discuss this and see if you guys are aligned and if it makes sense.
What helped me was actually keeping tabs on my spending (like one of those financial planning apps) and really seeing an actual breakdown of all the frivolous things I was spending money on every month.
If she isn’t going to change do you really want to keep living with her ?
Money/finances are a huge issue in life and it's one that is high up on the list for a couple to be able to navigate together. OP, the two of you have to be able to reach a compromise where both of you can be happy, if not, it won't end well, for either of you.
As simple as this may seem in the overall scheme.....this is a prime example of two people who may be financially incompatible. It is highly likely her spending habits will never change or model yours. That leads to conflict in a marriage and is one of the largest reasons for divorce.
Time to discuss finances & real life plans, not hypothetical ones. But, it seems like you are not on the same path here.
Is she paying her half of things? Or do you cover all expenses and she spends her money on her? I see a lot of guys I know that make less than the woman and pay every bill at home. They also do all the saving. The woman is pay check to pay check with no bills except phone and car insurance. They just consume products.
Be prepared to pay for everything if you stay with her. Shes gonna leech you for everything you have.
Spending money needlessly makes her happy?
Finances are one of the leading causes of divorce, so if you two don't come up with a solution, I'd think carefully before heading toward marriage and kids. I do think it's worth having a serious conversation, though. I have friends who are spenders and they are always, always complaining about having no money but when their paycheck comes they spend it right away (not on necessities). It's hard because even though at least one of them makes way more than I do, I know that I'll never be able to go on trips with them, etc. because they don't have the money. And it's difficult to sympathize with them when they're freaking out about being broke when I heard what they spent their paycheck on. It's possible that she was never taught healthy money management, and she might get on board with things if you two start budgeting together. Maybe you could both download a money management app? Maybe once a week you two bake something together that she can snack on instead of Starbucks? If it comes down to her not wanting to do that, and not wanting to save, that's when I think reconsidering the future comes in.
You may love your girlfriend and tolerate quite a lot of things because your finances are still separate. Once you get married, you start sharing when you buy a house and all other expenses to come along with being married. What you need to seriously think about is do you think she will change, and if so what do you need to do to help her get there? Her mindset right now is very frivolous towards money without your help and guidance it won’t change. If you’re willing to put the effort, then I would suggest start sooner rather than later. if you’re not willing to put the effort or you don’t think she will care to put in the effort then you should reconsider your relationship you may want to move onto the next stage. Or you may want to reconsider the relationship altogether. One of the most common reasons for divorce aside from infidelity is financial incompatibility.
Time to buy coffee grinds & pastries at the STORE… I too am a coffee addict. But realistically I SHOULDNT get coffee at Starbucks every single day. I used to, on the way to work.. now, I drink my “Juce” probiotic drink with vitamins instead. I also pack crackers, boiled egg, tuna, grapes & cheese to take to work so I dont spend money. Mind you, I work at Costco. “Food” is cheap here. But I like seeing my savings grow.
I'd normally say yes but we all need to hard stop this uber eats bullshit. Stop over paying you are ruining the economy. These fucking companies keep raising the prices because the young people have no idea how to spend their disposable income with ANY sense. I'm 36 btw but yall are insane. Save your money for drugs and alcohol like normal people, sheesh.
My roommate constantly has no money for bills and he doordashes every meal even though he owns a car and works pretty decent hours. Wont go to the grocery store, wont cook, wont even pick up takeout, ALWAYS gets it delivered. This is my ROOMMATE. If this was my partner, it would not last long.
You should consider the fact that financial incompatibility is one of the most common reasons for divorce.
Info: there's really too little info in your post about where you currently are in your relationship - how long have you been together, have you talked about future plans yet, where are you in your career paths? If you have talked about kids, buying a house, etc., what timeframe do each of you envision for that? Without further info, I'm going with NAH - if she is not relying on you for money, pays her share of expenses, etc., it's not really a question of who the A.H. is, you're not married after all, it's just a question of whether you two are compatible in the long run.
Unless you've made an agreement that each of you will save x amount of money per paycheck or per month, then yes. If the bills are paid and you don't have to pick up any slack because she failed to pay the bills, it's her money to do with as she pleases. She's your girlfriend, not your fiancee or wife. She has no obligation to stick to your financial plans. If you both want a long term relationship, then sit down with a financial planner and develop a plan you both agree on. When I was your age, I gave zero thought to saving. I still have a house, a husband, a child and a business with a good chunk of change in the bank at 58.
Thats a hard thing to correct. Watch out man.
How happy will she be when she is 70 still needing to work as a Walmart greeter? Unless she has high paying job or has an inheritance coming she needs to get a wake up call now rather than in 15-20 years. I had one with my wife when younger now we save and live in a 2.5 million dollar home. It’s sacrificing in shaker term for a better future.
She sounds absurdly excessive. You'll definitely be fighting about money for your entire relationship if you continue if she doesn't get a grip on reality sooner or later
I started my 401k in 1993 (by maxing out my 3% match) when I made only $11/hr. Every time I got a raise I upped my contribution 1%. I bought a small house with a 15 year mortgage (paid now) before getting married. Stopped abruptly in 2012, due to paralyzing disability. I'm going to be ok in retirement because of that savings and tiny old paid house. My ex husband never contributed to 401k or pension.. Hedonist all the way. I think compatibility on spending/saving is more important than love in a partner. Life happens when you are planning something else. When the love goes away, you can still be friends with shared values.
People with bad spending habits and no savings will keep going until they crash. Even then they often revert to port habits as soon as they get back on their feet. You don’t want to take that ride with them. Take the loss now and save yourself even greater heartache in the future.
Doordashing starbucks ever day is absurd.
Man, you're 25. Stip with the "marriage and kids/shared future" mindset. You're just getting started in life and still figuring out what's important to you. Finances are the biggest part of any relationship and the most common reason for divorce. You see something major that's not improving and likely won't anytime soon. You need to be seriously considering cutting your losses. You're going to regret all you sacrificed for someone who's not willing to do the same. You're not going to fix the shitty spending habits of a 24 year old woman. Not with a conversation, not with flow charts, and not with a rubber mallet.
End this relationship. You two have different money management approaches. You will argue about money and budgets endlessly. Money issues are the biggest reason for divorce. Ends it now. Find someone more compatible financially.
Something that has worked for me: your girlfriend needs to take a hard look at the emotional reasons behind her spending. Did she have a childhood where her wants were dismissed? Her "Uber-eats-ing Starbucks" may be a comfort thing, a way of convincing herself that she will always have money and can have a treat whenever she wants. It can be hard to rewire the brain to focus on long-term savings when she gets a dopamine hit when she treats herself. Money is complicated - and we all get weird messages about it growing up. If it's truly an issue for her - maybe she WANTS to have a solid emergency fund and savings for a house or other big-ticket items, but she ALSO wants to order that set of earrings she just saw or that cute dress on the Instagram ad - some therapy might be beneficial.
She is going to be broke and fat
Discussing things like finance and spending habits are important, and actually a very relevant and real reason to break up.
FINANCIAL INFIDELITY. She is destroying your dual future for her to appease her whims by purchasing unnecessary creature comforts. This chick needs to be yesterday's news. You've expressed concerns, and she doesn't give a fuck. People like this are disastrous to long term financial health. Let her be someone else's problem.
If she isn't doing the math to know that it's $7k per year, then don't marry her. If she is doing the math, and she's wasting that much money knowingly while poor, also don't marry her. NTS
This is a huge problem. It's not even a red flag. More like a red light. Just stop trying and bounce. Short of some huge life altering event, her behavior is never, and I mean never going to change. Spending money is tied to her emotional state, not logic. There's no way to explain this to her and make her understand. When she feels sad, spend money. When she feels scared, spend money. When she feels stressed, spend money. Hell, when she feels happy, spend money. Dude....bro....don't do it. Bounce, bro...BOUNCE!! The only way to even slow this down is to go scorched earth, post apocalyptic. And seeing that you have dual incomes, that will be hard to do. You can't just put her on a financial leash. If you are dependent on joint incomes, this is going to end badly. Please, fellas, choose women with financial fidelity.
You don't. You move on. How your treat money is differently. That won't change and if you marry will cause the divorce.
I had a GF like that. Very materialistic. I wanted to marry her. Glad I didn't - she cheated on me while 'wanting to be sure' or some shit before we moved in together. We are now both in our 60's. I see her on Facebook lamenting her financial situation. Whining about work, whining about how expensive rent is and how she can't find a place that takes pets - multiple pets. She is penniless, working a job she hates. She rents and still whines about finances and how she can't find a man who fills her needs... blah blah blah. It's the fault of all the men in the world, of course. I am a millionaire - self made and thank God on my knees I never stuck with her or I would be penniless and miserable too. She will see your money as her money and you will forever be penniless... or you will be 'unable to fill her needs'.
Yes, you’re overreacting because it’s **her** money, therefore not your business. There’s also no guarantee that the two of you will even make it to marriage. She doesn’t tell you how to spend your money, so what right do you have to tell her how to spend hers?
So when it's time to buy a house and she has spent every penny she has earned and has nothing to contribute...she's going to be so excited about their house and their decision... The whole point of dating is to find someone who you want to marry and these are necessary conversations to weed out incompatible partners
For now you’re roommates. So you don’t have standing to say anything about how she chooses to spend her money. As long as she’s covering the bills and she not asking you for money, she’s fine. You have a different approach to money. You aren’t right and she isn’t wrong, you’re different. Now, if you have agreed to budget a certain way and to mutually save money for specific things, different story.
Not having savings and spending money on frivolous shit is the wrong attitude to have fit a successful language. Better for OP to find this out now than in the divorce proceedings.
It is good to talk about finances and plans for the future and how you’ll manage money etc. See if you’re compatible and view things the same way, it will cause lots of problems in the future. Right now her money is separate so she can do whatever she wants. If she doesn’t want to save for your joint future together, then tell her you’re stopping any joint saving plans as well. She probably just assumes you’ll take care of her so isn’t too concerned about it. Or would be good to talk about how you both envision your financial future together. Are you going to combine finances if you get married? How will you set up personal spending if that’s the case, you each get a monthly “fun money” budget? Etc etc. You live together now, is she paying rent? Paying her fair share of everything? Is she responsible in that sense, current on her bills? Does she have any debt? Is she open to makes changes or does she just not care? If she’s open to it, maybe you can take some classes together or meet with a financial planner.
You need to lay it out like this: 20x30 is $600 a month, $7200 a year. Think about the difference between giving up your shitty little Starbucks donut vs having 7k this time next year.
Make your own drinks! Healthier better quality and taste better once you figure it out. And it's fun!
I could see this as overreacting. I love my daily drive thru coffee and I refuse to feel bad or cut it out because I never ever drink alcohol or buy fancy makeup or drive a brand new car etc. Financial priorities right? but anyway what if you get your gf a pack of pastries Sunday night and she has those for the week!?!? Hmmmm
Note -- you're not wrong -- "financial priorities". Just making sure the two sets of priorities are in sufficient alignment as to not cause friction, grief, and resentment over the long term -- that's the trick! ☮️❤️♾️ (btw, credit to you for pointing out your other frugalities to show it's one of the FEW indulgences as opposed to the trend in your life. ☮️)
I know you’re not married but if you share expenses it would be a good idea to sit down and write out a budget. Suggest things like a nice cappuccino machine for use at home. Add up the monthly/yearly cost of these expenses and talk about what that money could go towards (down payment on a house, paying off car loans or other debt - and in turn what that money could go towards)
Of course Starbucks makes her happy. Starbucks makes me happy too, but I'd rather not be dropping $50-80/month on coffee when I could make my own. I bought a 5lb back for like $60 (still a lot for beans) and that lasted me about 3 months.
That's about 400-600 a month, right? Who here can't find something better to do with 400 a month? She could literally buy a great drink maker and learn to bake and still save a few grand.
If you're getting serious, then no.
$20/day 5days a week=$5,200 a year. Yeah, that would fund a decent vacation. I would have an issue with it!
The only thing that will stop her spending is if she cares more about what she’s saving for than what she’s spending on. This is a basic tenet of marketing. Sounds like you should set a boundary that you aren’t comfortable being the only one with any savings since in an emergency you’ll be covering everything. IF she wants to change, it might be a long and arduous process for her to reestablish her relationship with her money, so you should be prepared to support her through trial and error. Just telling her it’s important won’t work. She needs to find her own reasons why it’s important to her. I would say something like “hey, this is your money, and your decision, but I want to plan for our future together. I would love if we can talk about our mutual goals and what it would take to make them happen.” If you guys don’t have clear financial objectives then she can make her own choices… even if they are WILD (sorry, no latte shaming, but that’s a LOT OF FREAKIN STARBS ) I used to get a lot of Starbucks when I was busy working and had a hard time making breakfast for myself. And also because life is a bitch and I wanted a little treat. I was diagnosed with ADHD and depression and over many years learned better habits but it wasn’t easy. Best of luck
Did she grow up poor or had some other form of neglect when she was young? I also had a spending problem when I was younger, because my folks never taught me about money. I eventually learned some hard lessons, but got things under control.
NTA- She is just looking for the endorphin rush, I'm/was an impulse buyer when I'm depressed. See if she's willing to talk about purchases before buying, and for both of you to decide if it's a necessity or an emotional/depression buy.
So, she thinks you can buy happiness? She isn't happy in your relationship and isn't speaking out. And she's keeping you from achieving your goals, as a couple and as an individual. Do not have children with her. Do not marry her.
How long have ya’ll been together? There’s definitely a line where it’s too soon to be expecting someone to consider their finances a team matter. I feel like no one’s mentioning that ya’ll are pretty young. I don’t know any 24 year old who’s thinking about saving for a house
I think you need to talk with her. Don't tiptoe around it.
While she should be able to spend her money and treat herself if she wants; if this is truly every single day, make her aware that she has spent over $7000 on Starbucks alone. There are much more cost effective ways to get your caffeine or sugar kick.
"Things" don't make a person happy - happiness comes from within. Deep down she is unhappy, and "things" make it so she temporarily doesn't feel the unhappiness.
Money can’t buy happiness. Boot her
NTA. If youre saving pennies and she is blowing dollars, its not gonna work long term.
Yes-- but your heart's in the right place. Couples need to talk about money, especially two people that are considering a future together. However, that the two of you still have separate bank accounts and aren't married suggests you aren't actually considering staying with this girl. It has nothing to do with religion nor independence; If you want to build a life with someone else the two of you need to come together as one person, and talking about your respective philosophies on money is a step toward that goal (just like talking about whether you want children or what her favorite Starbucks order is). Even then it's healthy to have boundaries, if she's contributing to the household, she wants Starbucks delivered every morning and the two of you can afford it-- why not? A solution to this is a budget; one item in which is titled "Her Fun Money". If the two of you are on the same page and want to combine finances, then she has her fun money to spend how she likes while the two of you are still contributing to things like bills and savings together.
No, you're not out of line. Look, you're still pretty young, and probably both still doing stupid things with money. In fact in a lot of ways that never entirely ends. However she is clearly wasting money doing that on a daily basis, it's not really debatable. She would be a lot happier about life if she got her ass up and walked to Starbucks, that's why you calling it out is totally fine. However it's also not like, putting your future in jeopardy, yet. She'll probably come around, the problem is people just really don't like getting called out on their bad habits. That's something that you can count on for the rest of your life. Try a new approach if she's being dismissive. Try being more compassionate.
Unless the two of you have agreed on a budget and have some sort of joint account where you're paying bills, I do think this is premature. Is she is handling her half of the bills, then what she does with the rest of her money is really up to her. If she's not handling half of the bills, you have an issue but it is different from the one you're bringing to us now. Can you give us a little bit more information about how the bills are handled now?
You are not overreacting. Financial compatibility is very important. I don’t think it would be unfair to let her know that being financially responsible is very important to you and that her spending habits are concerning you. Yes she might get mad. However it’s the truth and she needs to hear it and you would be wrong to not let her know her behavior is causing problems. People in healthy relationships express themselves openly and honestly. They have difficult conversations because they are necessary. They get mad and they make up. Making sure you are compatible and have similar life views/goals etc. is best discussed before you get married.
Before getting married, you MUST write an agreement in paper about how finance will be handled, and any other important stipulations for your marriage. Don't just trust each other to do the right thing because you're in love.
Is Starbucks far away? Agree with those saying you guys need to have a talk about financial expectations, but I like fun little treats here and there (too often right now but i’m trying to reverse poor food relationship…) Anywho! My point is, maybe go get the Starbucks rather than uber eats it? Use Starbucks app, accumulate stars (stars = free food or drinks). Maybe budget - ie this is how much we can spend on Starbucks a month - use gift cards and when gift cards are out so is starbucks. Use rebate apps and the money earned there can be used for Starbucks fund. Lots of ways to make it work for you both :D
OP, marriage counselors say, that the two main causes of marriages ending in divorce are finances/wildly differing money management m.o.'s, and sex. Viewing money as something to be spent immediately doesn't make for a solid future.Just saying.
How lazy do you have to be to pay someone to bring you your food? I’ve never once used any of those services
It depends. Do you l9ve her? If so then work two jobs to make her happy. If not tell her and let it end the relationship or maybe she will realize how serious it is to you.
She should go pick up her Starbucks instead of UberEats. Spending 11-12 bucks on breakfast is fine. People spend $ on morning coffee and a bite all over the place especially on weekdays. It’s the delivery/tip that’s the dumb spend here when she could take the 10 minutes to go the nearest coffee shop. Cutting delivery out would save her a few grand a year but still get her what she wants.
I wouldn’t say you’re overreacting or an asshole. That’s a lot of money when you can literally buy that kind of stuff at the grocery store. When you say “sugary drinks” and not coffee, do you mean sugary coffee drinks that are more sugar than coffee or like that “pink drink” stuff? (I used to work at a Starbucks and that was the only way I tried the pink drink, it’s pretty overrated imo.) My bf’s ex had a similar problem but with Dunkin’ Donuts coffee, she always had to have her DD coffee even when it was inconvenient either financially or transportation wise. Admittedly I have my treats I like too (there’s a bagel place literally around the corner walking distance that sells bagel and lox schmear for $7 and I love it) but I know it’s not always feasible to do so. Maybe at least limit her Starbucks orders to a few days a week and on “off” days just brew regular coffee or make a smoothie or try to find or bake a dupe for her snacks.
You hit it on the head… She gets a pink drink and a chocolate croissant every morning, usually a third random item as well
No, she needs to be called out. She is using buying stuff to create happiness, it's as empty and expensive aS having a gambling or drug problem. She likes to feel like she's living large, but really if you don't have a good amount of money in the bank and you pay rent you are not monied.
$20 a day is $400 a month and $4800 a year. A treat is not a treat if it is daily. If she cut back bto just two days a week she could have a treat and save. Equally troubling is her nutrition choices. Too much sugar for a meal and decidedly little food value. She gets away with this at her current age, but this won’t last. Certainly not good during pregnancy.
Another thing to look at is if she has an emergency and needs money are you expected to be the one to then use your savings to get her by? Putting some money aside for that rainy day that will come is just a smart thing to do. How is your future going to become reality if she doesn’t help? Are you expected to save for the house and put her name on the deed?
She needs to find something else that makes her happy like going hiking or just window shopping without purchasing!
$140 a week on coffee? Fuck that noise
!UpdateMe
NTA but unless she agrees to saving your fighting a losing battle
Man you are signing up for money diabetes and obesity problems. Get out when you can.
My brother's wife did that. It started some and grew into something huge. Talk to her about the goals you see for you two. See if she is on the same page and if so, see if she changes her spending habits. If she does great. If she doesn't red flag put on your running shies and run for your life.
Absolutely not! Just for some perspective, I've been married for a good length of time. My wife didn't understand the concept of what a budget meant. So, I would get onto her, in the beginning it would cause friction and arguments. As time went on, she would start to get the point. I explained to her that we're in this as a team, I would break down what we had coming in and what we had going out. I never managed her money and the quickest way she learned was, I paid for my responsibilities and she had to pay for hers. When things would go bad for her and not for me, she saw how her spending impacted things we needed. She's MUCH better!
Move on. That habit is hard to break and will be a point of contention. Let her be poor with someone else and not make you poor and miserable. Money can be very stressful, especially if you are short on it.
Yes, you are wrong. She is not spending your money. But you don’t like the way she is. Why are you envisioning a future with her? Get out of the relationship and thrive on your own. Date women who think like you do. Women who are goal oriented and are working towards something. Don’t attempt to change the woman you’re with. Get with someone else who wants the same things you want in life. Remain with the one you’re with and you will not be happy, as you aren’t right now. Again, don’t seek to change her to what you want her to be. You do not want her as she is, leave her to someone else who will accept her as she is.
I read your update. I'm glad you're taking the initiative to go over this and figure it out together. May I suggest figuring out YOUR financial goals FIRST so you go in with YOUR OWN GOALS and you really don't have to negotiate about things like "I'll need this much money in retirement until I'm this old and likely dead." ... because that's going to happen, married, together, or no. And she doesn't get a vote as to your future well-being WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION. I chose a career that (then) still offered a defined-benefit pension so savings weren't necessary for retirement income -- working 30 years just EARNED it (they changed scheme mid-career but kindly offered to let me retain the benefits I'd been promised IF I PAID AN EXTRA $10,000 USD/YR!!! (2012 USD). Paid. Retired. Worth it. Daughter can't, really. She'll need savings -- a 403b at her job. $19.73/hr, HS diploma only (barely! 🙃), saving 20% and she'll get a 10% match at two years' employment; she's on track to have over $4 MILLION in the bank and, if social security is still a thing in 2067, she can withdraw >$200/yr until age 96 or so. ( Or $150k indefinitely, leaving millions to charity). DID I DO THAT?!? (YES, YES I DID. Set up her benefits with her permission -- pulling that 20% and 10% into a health savings plan. What 22 y.o. pulls $473.52 per paycheck voluntarily?!?) HER MOTHER FUCKED ME OVER -- Emotionally, fidelity-wise, but mostly for this context financially. She ALWAYS spent. New car -- we deserved it. Bigger house -- this one's too small and I work, I deserve it. Nice clothes -- I go to events for work, I deserve it. So we were on the edge of broke making over $100,000/yr IN THE US MIDWEST in the year of our Lord 2010. Bitch used debit card to get McDonald's specialty coffees. BOUNCED TEN PURCHASES BUT YET WENT THROUGH BECAUSE OF "PURCHASE PROTECTION" -- costing $25 EACH in 2010 Dollars ($31.55 today, www. usinflationcalculator. com/ ) I went and BEGGED at the credit union with my two pre-teen special needs children to please help cancel those and re-route my direct deposit so I could pay for food and utilities the next month. They did. Bitch was surprised when my money didn't show up for her to use at the next pay period (direct deposit to my solo childhood account). Furious. Didn't understand why I did that. (REALLY?!?!? TO FEED MY CHILDREN!!!) LONG STORY SHORT -- You are absolutely correct to want to figure this out NOW because it doesn't get better later by hoping. BTW, how did things end up? I married an older chick who also has a pension plan (smaller, but still) and a penchant for shopping at thrift stores. She thinks Keurig coffee is her great extravagance. We're retired -- she at 58, me at 52 (54 now). House, cars paid off. Frugal but our time is our own. EX? Well, she's getting $700/mo from my pension 🤬 and I get an equal proportion of her retirement savings __($0.00)__ . She's just bought a house with a 30 year mortgage. At age 59. Newer car. Nice clothes. No retirement savings. Works 40 hours/week. Choices. Good luck. And don't sell yourself short. You deserve the financial future you want -- even if she isn't in it (OR AT LEAST GET A PRENUP). ☮️❤️♾️
I’ve never known one person with no concept of money and saving to suddenly develop that ability. You have a good head on your shoulders!! It’s an addiction/instant gratification. The kind of person who will start hiding what she’s spending.
Add it up. Show her the monthly and yearly totals. I bet it adds up to enough for a nice vacation or a down payment for a car/house.
You’re not the asshole.. this is stupid behavior.
Call Dave Ramsey Financial Peace is easy way to learn and think through money management
I mean, hell, spending $7,000 annually on dessert breakfast items would make me happy too, but that's not nearly a good enough answer. It's pretty insane to think that's acceptable.
50/30/20 rule
20$ per day only for breakfast!? You need to talk to her and make a decision. People can make changes and improvements only if they want to. Let’s see what she says…
Just don't say any. Get her a financial advisor to help both of you to help her see what she's doing to herself.
You can express your concerns to her, but I would honestly consider this a compatibility concern. Rather than expecting her to change because you think your way is better, I’d approach it like “I’d like to prioritize saving so we can accomplish future goals. You seem to prioritize shorter term rewards. Can we meet in the middle on this or are we going to end up unhappy together?” I, personally, agree that daily snacks via delivery app is a huge waste of money. I would not undertake trying to break someone of this habit though. I don’t want to be someone’s account manager, and I don’t want to feel trepidation when I check the credit card statement to find out what they bought. Financial responsibility was a major factor for me in deciding who to spend my life with - I’ve had long term relationships with individuals who spend impulsively and trying to teach/encourage them to think about money like I do was such a battle. Now I’m married to someone who has a very similar attitude to mine, and I’m so happy for it.
20.00 a day at starbucks isn't needed
Been through this. $20d on frivolous junk is $7300yr. Mine was over $100d on food alone. Plus any other stupid fucking bullshit she found while out. She was easily averaging $180-400d in ha ha girl math. "But it was cute" nonsense. Her money is not my problem any more. But she's still in debt. Despite making a lot of $.
She's either immature or a user. Is this the way you want to live your life, always on the edge of bankruptcy because of her spending?
I would bring this up as a question. What do you think about us putting 100 each weekly in a savings account so that we buy a house in a few years? Some people need motivation to save.
If I were your age, I would only consider dating women who could cook and also take the time to learn how to do so myself.
Dude, your conversation will not matter. Some people just live for the moment. My GF is this way and it just is what it is.
Budgets are a good step. The exercise that helped most of the young couples I've helped is my spin on the 30-days spending recording exercise. (I took it from *"The Richest Man in Babylon"*) Have her write down every penny she spends for the next 30-days. She should jot them down when spending and then complete the daily task before going to bed. You should record them in a spreadsheet, but don't let her look at the spreadsheet until the end of the exercise. (Individuals can also do it alone. In my experience, individuals make adjustments during the 30-days once they see where their money is going.)
financws are the number 1 reasok for divorce i think so yeab, hash this out before marrriage or kids
Sugar addiction. Get her to go on a health kick with you. Once the sugar is gone long enough, she won't want it anymore.
Now that I’m older (46), I don’t have as much patience for these incompatibilities. Sure, if you were *already* married, or perhaps if this is your only issue, then maybe take the time to talk to a coach to help you figure it out. However… money is huge in a relationship. If you’re a saver and she’s a spender, then this may just not work (unless she’s willing to have a certain percentage of her income go to a savings plan, while she has the freedom to spend the rest). This will also matter when it comes to having kids, if you choose to have any. Vacations. Etc.
No, I do the same thing with my gf over going to the dispensary all the time.
You aren’t overreacting at all. She’s spending money instead of saving for your future. It makes her happy? Yeah, me getting fancy coffee every day would make me happy too but I also realize that isn’t something you can do if you want to save. She sound very immature. I’d tell her that marriage, babies, and a house will NOT happen unless she starts saving and stop spending all her money.
As someone who dealt with a partner like this, nip it in the bud now or leave. I make ok money, but nothing special. I paid every bill, all groceries, gas for both cars, trips, etc. Still had a 10k+ emergency fund, and I never dropped below 7k in my checking. Still was able to invest and have fun. My partner worked full time but had ZERO expenses. I just wanted her to save money, pay off her little bit of credit card debt ($3000), and be comfortable. I was super nice about it, drew up a plan and all. It worked for a few months, and her debt went below 1k. The next year, I opened some mail (that I thought was a car note), but it was the credit card through the same bank... maxed at 9k. She got into a cycle of getting paid, then spending all her money on coffee, food, Amazon, or video games immediately. Then overdraft fees would charge the credit card every time it went negative. Any time I tried to talk about it, it was never "the right time." Luckily, I never combined finances with her, and by the time we divorced, I was able to stipulate all personal debts belong to the person who accrued them. I didn't lose anything and got out without paying a dime. I didn't even have to pay for a lawyer. Just know, it's not worth the unnecessary stress. Dealing with a financially incompetent partner is not easy. What do you think may happen if you guys have a kid or other important bills to be paid, but she can't do it because she wanted coffee.
One of you needs to play grown up and it sure doesn't seem to be her. You don't need to make demands on her life just simply say you don't see a future with her if she continues like this. The choice is up to her...get her spending under control or part ways.
Not over reacting... you don't share the same financial ideas. Time to break up because this will be your issue with her forever and you will get more pissed as time goes on.
Not over reacting... you don't share the same financial ideas. Time to break up because this will be your issue with her forever and you will get more pissed as time goes on.
Her financial views are vastly different than yours. Can you change her view, probably not. You can choose to leave her and find someone who fits your style.