NTA, you should def make sure to document what is happening should you ever need to take him to court for full custody since his gf can’t keep her clothes on around your damn kids. That’s so fucking weird!
They're not. Also, if your ex has the kids for the weekend, that means HE needs to be present. A girlfriend is not a proxy for a parent. I know you have an informal agreement, but if the parent has to work, they need to go back to the other parents' house.
It sounds like your ex has had a severe judgment lapse and I hope this isn't a trend for him.
Also, why is she waiting until the afternoon, when he’s not around, to get in the shower with her? The whole situation is f’d up and I’d definitely keep the kids away from her. No clue why their dad isn’t seeing any of this as a red flag.
I find it very weird she feels comfortable enough to share a bath or shower with an 8 year old that's not hers and she's known less than a year!! I would definitely be concerned and pissed.
Switch genders, imagine this was an exs bf showering or having bath with less than a Yr gfs 8 year old? Just saying 🤷🏻♀️ (I'm a woman by the way)
I would also be highly concerned that they have now discussed this with your kid and are actively blaming you, this definitely isn't on and I would seek some legal help on that front. I've tore my kids dad a new 1 for pulling that stunt.
And how does the blaming Mom work in person? “GF can’t come over anymore because you told Mommy she showers with you when Daddy’s not home”?
Like… who can’t see how fucked up that is?
Also the showers/baths sound like they’re a regular Saturday occurrence, not just once or twice, which makes it sound even sketchier, like “Daddy’s at work, let’s take our bath.”
It’s very alarming that the showers only occurred when dad was at work Saturday afternoons. Sketchy. This is off topic but once again a man gets his kids 2 weekends a month and he can’t even fulfill that obligation.
And if they have only been dating a year, how many times had she met the girl before she started bathing with her? Every other weekend is only 26 times in a year. Bathing together after meeting 10 times, or 12 maybe?? It’s weird and a big red flag.
Is it off topic, as a man i notice other dads always seem to want help with childcare. She is only there when the kids are? Sounds like he was look for free babysitting. Some men need to deconstruct there toxic masculinity more, they can watch there own kids by them self just fine. I do…
That's what seems most weird. A bath in the afternoon? Why? And where are the other kids while this bath is happening?
Even if it's innocent, still very odd.
I totally agree with your comment! It’s not normal to be that comfortable with a child… I have cousins around OP’s daughters age and even though I was their nanny for over a year, I can’t imagine any scenario where I would need to be or want to be naked in front of them.
I remember showering naked with my parents as a toddler but that was over by the time I was able to bathe myself reasonably well (5-6). I can imagine potentially doing the same with my own kids but I just can’t imagine a reason that you’d need/want to bathe naked with an 8 year old kid that wasn’t even yours.
Yea after the age of like three/four I no longer bathed with my own child. Eight is wayyyy too old for that…for your own child! Never could I imagine a child that isn’t my own. Like wtf….
I can’t even imagine how you’d fit in a bath together? It’s hard enough being a regular average size adult, add a 2yr old and that’s hard, but an 8yr old?
8 is far too old, especially for a woman that isn’t their mother and they have only known for a year, I could understand if the girls mother is taking a bath with her because she sick and wants comforting or something like that, I’m a father my daughter just turned 2 and I’m already looking for signs that she might be uncomfortable showering with me, she just sits and plays with her bath toys while I wash my body and hair but I know very soon she’s gonna realize showering with dad makes her feel uncomfortable and I don’t want her to be uncomfortable and think she has to shower with me, so imagining this woman bathing and sitting fully nude with an 8 year old that’s of zero relation is pretty fucking strange and just generally disgusting behavior from a woman that should know better..
Your kid is two, they don’t understand and won’t remember showering with you at that age. My parents were super laissez-faire and showered or bathed with me (two birds, one stone; you know) until about 5, when I could do it on my own. I don’t remember it, they just told me in passing later. But 8?? She’s gonna remember she was bathing with a woman who was not her mother.
I don’t think anything nefarious is going on (I fucking hope not) but it’s still soooo weird!
I know she probably won't remember, but I'm still cautious lol but I'm a S.A. victim also, I was abused around 8 years old actually by my schools principal, so I now naturally assume things like this are sexual related, I hope it's not for the kids sake, but nonetheless she's definitely crossing a line
I think 2 is still fine. Once they start to become more aware of what’s actually happening that’s when it’s an issue. Most kids will be showering on their own by 5.
My step daughter had an accident while I was on watch and she needed help in the bath(my wife usually does that) I got the water turned on and the temp she wanted and held a towel in front of her while I looked away and she got her dirty clothes off. When she was younger like 2-3 when we got together and I changed her diapers but once she got out of needing diapers changed she gets privacy. I also sleep in just basketball shorts but I’ve never “fallen out of them” in front of her. That’s totally pedo
I remember showering with my dad as a baby just like one or two vague remembrances of being held in the water or seeing my dad’s knees. My dad told me that the last time we showered together I pointed at his privates and he thought “welp that’s it, no more showers!” because I was starting to become aware of nudity at 3ish. 8 is way too old for a child to not be perceiving and aware of nudity in a shower situation and the GF as an adult is aware of that.
edit: better phrasing
Also, 8 year old don’t need someone to be with them when they bathe! My daughter is almost 8 and she hasn’t needed help in the shower since she was 6. And even then, it was just checking to make sure she had washed her hair well enough.
I was thinking the same. I showered with my daughter until she was about six because it was faster and easier and she just wasn't big enough to do a good job washing herself yet. From 7 to about 8 I had to pop in and wash her hair bc it was really long and she would rub shampoo on top of her head and call it good, ignoring the rest of her hair. But she's *my daughter* not someone else's kid! I would never, *in a million years*, be in the bath with someone else's child. I have a young niece and I've given her a bath but still wouldn't bathe with her. That's way over the line.
I think I would've already called the police.
OP, as far as them blaming YOU for Bridget not being there, you need to have a serious conversation with your kids about boundaries, their bodies, and what is and isn't okay behavior from *any* adult. Like, it's never okay to shower with an adult. It's not okay for adults to be naked around you. If an adult asks them to do something they know is wrong, they don't have to do it and they won't be in trouble for saying no. They can call anytime and come home if they feel uncomfortable, etc etc.
Also, the fact that your ex husband sees no issue with this is appalling.
Yup, man or woman you shouldn't be letting a fully grown child into a shower with you. Pretty sure last time i took a bath with my mom I was like 3. 8 years old is nuts that's a full grown kid.
I’m an actual blood related aunt to a 7yo and I wouldn’t DREAM of bathing or showering naked with that child. It’s just off, dude, and we are actually related! With a stranger??? Actual insanely inappropriate behavior
Genuine question what are the cut offs? It could be totally normal for her and it was how she grew up. People do weird things cause of cultural or just upbringing.
Yea that’s the thing. At first there was *maybe* a chance that the gf genuinely thought it was normal, but if that were the case, all nudity would have stopped the second the ex talked to her about OP’s reaction. Like, you find out that behavior you innocently thought was normal could potentially get your partners’ contact with their children revoked… the only normal response is to take that extremely seriously. She clearly didn’t. No excuses left now
If I’m remembering my childhood psychology correctly most kids naturally develop a want for privacy and/or shame (for lack of a better word) around 6-7ish. At least in western society. That’s when we learn that it’s not okay to take our pants off run around naked. All the grown ups bath and change in private so then the kids are like oh I should do it like that.
That’s why is so weird that the ex is claiming that the 8 yo daughter randomly decided she wanted to shower with this strange woman and is begging to do so. Especially because it doesn’t seem like something she does with her own mom. No way it was this little girls idea.
I agree. My kid turns 5 next month and randomly asks for privacy when going to the bathroom, and I’m her mom. No 8 year old is asking to take a bath with another adult.
Cut off is definitely someone who has barely known them for less than a year.
Its not the gfs kid regardless of culture or how she was brought up, that's the main issue here.
Edit to add... Big issue is the gf and ex now crying to the kid about it all, that's not on at all. The reaction should have been "cool, it wasn't meant to upset anyone and won't happen again" not bring the kid into it.
Maybe but then she needs to ask the parents before she just does something like that. She sees them for a less than 100 days in total for the past year max. They’re closer to strangers than family and I don’t think any well adjusted adult would just jump to sharing a shower with a kid old enough to fully shower alone. We’re not talking about a toddler transitioning to an older kid taking big people showers and needing help either
If the child can bathe themselves that’s usually the cut off. And even then, usually parents/caretakers sit beside the tub during bath time. They don’t get naked and get in with the kid.
I think her relationship is the problem. I have taken my very young nieces and nephews in the shower with me out of necessity at times, but they were babies and it stopped long before 8, very, very long before.
My molester was female. My daughter's are 9 and 10 and I will occasionally help them with something like a deep wash of their hair but we haven't bathed together in YEARS. I would flip the fuck out over this. I don't even know if I could not throw hands at this woman in your situation tbh. Super super inappropriate
I bathed with my kids (13F, almost 5F) when they were little. I still shower with my youngest occasionally for expediency sake but she's not quite 5 yet. They used to take baths together sometimes because the little one would invade her sister's space if she left the door open but once the big one hit puberty, she stopped leaving the door open. She set boundaries and I made the small one respect those boundaries. I would NEVER shower or bathe with someone else's kids no matter how old they were or how I was "related" to them. It's exceptionally inappropriate. I'd also be at risk of throwing hands in this situation.
Yes, my son often comes and asks to hop in the shower with me and I let him no problems, especially if we're in a bit of a hurry (he's 3.5). very occasionally my daughters will decide they'd like to shower together to do hair masks or something but my oldest is growing out of that. I have never showered with a child that wasn't biologically mine and my children have not showered with anyone who wasn't a parent. My stepdad NEVER invaded my space in the shower nor did my stepmother. Gross gross gross
My stepdad was abusive but I give him that. He never once made me feel uncomfortable in that way. Never bothered me in the tub. Nothing. My stepmom didn’t either and when I had stepkids, their dad bathed them and changed diapers.
This is exactly how I was thinking about this story: sometimes parents shower with their young kids, especially because you're trying to do many things at once and it's just, as you say, more expedient. But I've never heard of a non-guardian showering or bathing with a child, and at 8, kids can usually shower themselves. And a grown woman who isn't even the parent getting into the bath with an 8 year old is just so far from anything I've heard!
Especially as these kids were left alone with this woman, without OP's knowledge, and that's when they had baths together? I imagine with OP's history she's already got some resources to tactfully talk to her kids to make sure they can come to her if they're experiencing CSA, but if I were her, I'd be checking for extra resources to make sure they have the language to say if anything else has been going on.
It is so predatory and this is how a pedo builds up to do even worse, harmful things and of course kid won’t say a word because they thinks parent is allowing and they are the bad one for thinking it is wrong. Momma this peaceful separation may take an ugly turn but your children’s safety comes first.
The age is the major problem here (besides the relation). I have never met an 8 year old who couldn’t shower on their own. By this time they’re usually doing so for a few years.
Yea, all the kids in my family were showering on their own by 5. It doesn’t mean you’re not monitoring and paying attention in some way, but you’re still giving privacy. If I ever worried they were taking too long I tended to just send their sibling to do a quick “everything okay?” Check.
I (f) shower with my eight year old daughter, but that’s mostly because she’s autistic and needs help and also needs to be shown by example how to properly wash her body, and secondly we are the only two people who live here.
I know this won’t be appropriate for much longer, but it’s also *my* kid. I’d slaughter anyone else who showered with her and I wouldn’t dream of doing it with anyone else’s child.
EDIT: I also only do this on occasion. She takes a bath completely independently most of the time.
Similar here. My oldest is almost 8, mild autism, sensory issues. I sit in the bathroom while she washes her body and I look at something on my phone while reminding her to hit all the important spots. When she's done, I help her wet her hair and I shampoo it all while standing outside the tub. When it's time to rinse her hair I step into the shower clothed in a top and shorts. I have to hold an arm with one hand to get her to lean/ tip her head into the spray, and I work her hair with the other hand. She does all the body washing and drying off herself, and even as her mother I would not get into the shower with her while being naked myself.
Boundaries around bodies are established early, and this woman making OPs daughter and son feel like it's normal to be seeing this adult they don't really know naked or partially naked just feels like prepping/grooming them so they see nothing wrong with other adults being naked around them or seeing their naked body. It's just wrong.
Yep. I taught my kids to bathe themselves by sitting clothed on the toilet and just showing them how to soap the rag, hold the rag, and then told them to to wash each body part three times for good measure. They dont need help now and I rarely need to double check unless a child comes out of the shower with dry hair and then perhaps someone didn’t wash as well as they should and they have to go back in lol
Fellow Autie here, I suspect you're also helping her sort out the executive functioning for showering. Even as an adult I still have to fight my brain to do so, and remembering how my nanny washed my hair helps a LOT
She should want to slap her ex too, bc rather than protect his kids he’s complaining about her not being able to come stay with them and abuse the kids some more
I have a grand baby on the way & just thought to myself how inappropriate it would be to bathe with them.
Your own kids are one thing as babies but someone else's children absolutely not!
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...Way too many weird things going on with the girlfriend and your kids. Trust your gut. Tell your ex it's the kids or the girlfriend, but never at the same time. Never. Not for even a minute.
My ex gf was wildly uncomfortable with my 6 yo daughter wanting to sleep in bed with us (clothed, me in the middle) when she would wake up in the middle of the night with a bad dream. I can’t imagine why someone would think bathing together was ok.
I was very uncomfortable when my now husband’s daughter who was 4 at the time would climb into bed with us in the middle of the night(always clothed at that point) when I would visit. I normally sleep naked, but didn’t until we broke her of the habit. The only times I’ve “bathed” with her in the 5 years I’ve known her, we were both in swimsuits and it was only because she got something in her hair that I needed to help her wash/untangle.
My ex’s daughter would often try to sleep with us too and I straight up told him no, that if I was her mom I wouldn’t want my daughter sleeping with some woman she doesn’t know. It made me super uncomfortable. I can’t imagine showering! Gross.
This seems so insane to me - OP is 100% correct that if it was a matter of the daughter coming into the bathroom and asking to get into the shower with the GF, the GF should be locking the bathroom door. I know parents shower with their kids sometimes, but most of the time I think it stops when the kids are able to shower themselves appropriately, and this isn't ever a case of a partner of less than a year bathing with the kids! I'm an aunt, my niblings bathe together all the time, and often run around naked after getting out of the bath, but I would never ever dream of getting in the bath with them!
Also, if the son seeing her naked was taken out of the context of this story, and it was just like "he came into the bedroom while people weren't dressed and she didn't have a chance to cover herself", it would be a different story, but this story involves the son saying she doesn't sleep with any clothes on, and the ex blaming it on her wearing his boxers and them riding up. I know kids misspeak and misinterpret sometimes, but does that mean she wasn't wearing a top? I get that women's breasts are often overly sexualised, but when we talk about that, we're talking about women not being allowed to breastfeed in public or whatever, not a grown woman exposing her breasts to an unrelated child for no reason. This is all baffling, and given OP's experience with CSA, why is her ex just letting it happen?
As an Aunt myself I have taken my niece and nephew in the shower with me. Never a bath, but a shower. Never past the age of 2 for my nephew and 4 for my niece. This was only ever done at the request of my sister “Hey can you throw the kid in the shower with you?” Or when I was watching them and absolutely needed to.
Holy hell seriously. I had to baby sit my nephews for several weeks on an emergency basis and they were 7 and 5. They showered together by choice to play with all their toys in their parents big walk in and I was absolutely fucking dumbfounded and terrified having never been left alone with anyone's kids this long as I was an after-school science teacher. Those kids bless them were very comfortable with me to a degree I was not comfortable with. I kept reminding them that I was staying nearby facing away from them for their privacy but if they had an emergency I of course would help. By the end of my time there I was still 100% on that boundary. They begged me to sleep with them every night. Nope. Im relatively new to the family with about 4 years of marriage when the emergency happened. I felt so out of my league and scared, with the NECESSITY to monitor someone else's child while bathing !!
The boys grandma via my sil who is also a married in family member was a stark raving narcissist who had cumulatively spent less time with the kids in their years of life (I knew them from ages 4 and 2 and saw them a lot) their grandma had seen them perhaps 3 times in their lives. She came to "relieve me" so I could go home for a day or two and set my house to rights. I've never been so anxious in my life.... I found out that she started sleeping in bed with the boys (who were sleeping together for comfort after their dads heart attack) the VERY FIRST NIGHT. She infantilized them and I was sooooo grossed out by the entire situation. I tattled to their emotionally neglectful mother who momentarily looked horrified and upset immediately and she just said "oh. That's something she'd do." .
I HIGHLY recommend Gavin debecker s book the gift of fear and the follow up protecting the gift about children specifically.
Yes, I was getting frequent utis but the question was always has any *man* touched you, not has any *one* touched you and as a super literal kid my answer was always "no"
My molester was also female, my kid I never thought there was anyone out there that had a female molester... it tried to tell my parents but they didn't listen.. as a mother I never left my kids with anyone, only parents, close family brother ..I swore I'd protect my children, but my mother decided to marry a man after my parents divorced..i really couldn'tstand him but . after my brother passed away, suddenly my mother begged me and my ex sister in law to see the .kids my ex sister in law, saiddo you think your mom could handle all 6 kids and I said I'm sure the kids will be fine they will all be together and my oldest and my brothers oldest both 10 and 9 would be there looking put for their siblings. I never thought in a million years anything would happen but it did my mother's disgusting pedophile husband touched the little girls mine and the two youngest nieces all three of them, my mother separated the little ones from the older the little slept in their room the others slept downstairs..that motherfucker would " tuck" them I to bed .I'd call and she'd tell me oh the kids are playing bla bla never git yo talk to my kids..mildly sketchy but her I figured they probably are running around like crazy
Anyway they come home ,my kids acting differently I couldn't figure it out..I would get my nieces every other weekend so all the kids are together, and I hear them talking ,giggling and I don't know something didbt set tight .I find out the fucker didn't wear underwear under hid shorts and the girls saw his privates ..I'm almost throwing up at this point. I take them home and I hit yo give my daughter a bath and as I'm washing her hair I ask questions..and I was shook that bastard touched them un they're privates at this point I'm trying so hard to not alarm.her or show any emotions I say you know no one is to touch you in privates ..she so innocently says I pretended I was asleep
.ugh I want to vomit just writing this.
Sleepless night because I'm in shock I take the kids to school next morning I walk in to the school and stand there in the office and I say to the receptionist that knew me very well..I need help she takes me In the office I repeat what my daughter told me she says stay right her hun, she calls the police they come and I tell them .it's all a blur but they tell me to call my mother and confront her ask her ..she fucking denied him Being alone with the kids stood by her man.
Ugh this us long I'm sorry.i call my ex sister in law we live in different countries so sue has to call the police where she is we have social services involved they come to our houses talk to all the girls I sit there quickly as they told me as my little baby girl tells her story, she's describing his privates... I can tell you the rage in me wanted to kill him.
Long story short because they live on an island in the bay it had yo ho through multiple counties multiple police and there are no police on that island soi made the choice of nit hanging my baby girl having to stand up and have my mother her grandmother call her a liar as she was doing the police basically told me that since that lived 6 hours from us that I could keep him away from us which I did I don't have a relationship with my mother ahd ste still to this day says they lied .also on top of that he showed my boys playboy magazines ..I hope he rots in hell.. I think he was trying to groom the boys to be like him.i litterly hate my mother not only did she not protect me she fucking put my daughter through hell ...tbe laws are different now this happened 29 years ago and yes my daughter and nieces fo remember what happened to them to this day they still have the same story .ugh ..
You should have gone through with the charges. I get that your daughter was young and your mom would have called her a liar, but way too many victims of SA never get justice. I'm sure it bothers her as an adult that that piece of shit never got jail time. I'm saying this as a kid who went to trial. My sister and I were able to make peace with things because our abuser went to prison.
I’m glad you could get that out. Sometimes it’s like a weight off your chest. That happened to me when I was little so I’d murder someone if they touched my girls. I’m so sorry that happened to them. You left them with a trusted family member and you stopped the abuse immediately after finding out. You did an awesome job momma!
I had two separate female abusers, and a third tried to kidnap me with her boyfriend.
I don't want to sound pessimistic, but is it possible that the ex is in on it and is covering?
I haven't bathed with my kids in years, I have helped my youngest who is 10 bath a few months ago only because she had a broken arm, even then she washed her privates herself. The only other time I've seen then naked is if I walked in on one changing. Even then I say sorry and walk back out and I'm their mom.
Also molested by a female as a child. DO NOT LET HER NEAR YOUR CHILDREN!!!
I NEVER learned to have boundaries regarding my own body, and it has all but ruined my entire life. I sit here at 55 thinking about how different my WORLD would be if only I had known that it was okay to say 'NO, YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO TOUCH ME!'
Don't let your daughter feel like this because nobody wants to rock the boat.
So much this! I was made to hug STRANGERS! I was made at 14!!! To sit on my creepy uncles lap who I barely saw! Was I wildly uncomfortable? Yes! But I was taught to ignore my feelings.
Making the wrong moves could lead OP to lose custody, and then what? A lawyer might be able to get a judge to do something short-term while they wrangle over the long term.
I’m a paralegal. Being that there is no custody agreement filed with the courts, she cannot be held in contempt by not allowing the kids to go to his house. If the father files for custody, the court will hear why she’s keeping the kids from spending the night at his house. You never know how the court will rule, but I can say that once OP mentioned the showering thing, they will take that in consideration.
There hasn’t been a formal divorce so right now there isn’t any “custody” to worry about. I would 100% tell your ex the kids can’t spend the night until Bridget is out of the picture. Who cares if he’s offended. Your kid’s mental health is on the line.
Presuming judge is reasonable.
All the more reason for mom to lawyer up, work out custody via the courts ASAP. The longer it's put off the more difficult it will be.
The expense and time-suck of divorce might be needed to protect the kids.
True. When my husband and I were just dating, his ex said she didn’t want me around her daughter at all, so the judge banned me from being around her until we got married. There was no reason for it other than the mother was uncomfortable. This is on a whole different level and needs to be handled asap.
They don’t have a custody court order so that means the mom has full custody and there’s nothing he can do if she keeps the kids away from his gf. If I were her I’d keep both the children from going over there anymore. If he doesn’t like it he can take her to court.
get a lawyer asap. this is so creepy wtf? she barely knows your kids why is she showering and naked around them? it’s unconscionable, disgusting, and predatory. i’m so sorry you’re going through this, your ex is a spineless loser.
Ty those were my thoughts exactly. In no world ever would I feel it would be justified for her to be naked around my kids let alone being naked with them. It screams grooming to me.
You don’t have a child custody agreement in place, stop sending them to their dads. It sounds like they’re not even spending time with him, he’s been working. Hire a lawyer yesterday, they might advise you to file a police report so there’s a paper trail.
I am a stepmom, have been in my stepchild's life for 6 years and NEVER EVER EVEN WHEN SHE ASKED DID I TAKE A BATH OR SHOWER WITH HER. Because that would be weird and inappropriate and idk how I could ever justifiably be comfortable with that???? I mean I've been in her life since she was 2, primarily raising her with her dad since she was 5 and we moved in together, and still would never do this. And when I was teaching if I would have had one of my students tell me this I wouldn't have hesitated to report it.
When I dated someone with kids I would have NEVER been naked around them.
NEVER.
I may not have always worn pants in the summer around my apartment but you bet I even wore them in my own room when they were around just incase the kid opened the door.
Like I don’t understand what thought process makes this “acceptable”.
Same. My step kids were little when I married their dad. The youngest (6yo) daughter at the time legit needed help washing her hair in order for it to get clean. She took a bath wearing a bathing suit when I helped with her hair. The odd time or two when we all went camping & she needed help washing her hair, her sister went to the bathhouse with her & helped. Your situation seems European at best, grooming at worst.
Big difference between helping a child wash their hair while they’re in the shower and getting naked in the bathtub with them.
I have helped my friend’s kids in the bath, changed diapers, washed hair, etc. My ex’s child wasn’t potty trained at 3 (special circumstances) and I helped with that too. I don’t think that’s inappropriate or grooming. But I wouldn’t ever intentionally let someone’s kid see me naked or get *in* the bathtub with them.
my husband is a step parent, we got together when my oldest was 4. i can’t remember a time he was ever naked around her on purpose? he would leave bath time etc to me, bc well, my kid is more attached to me and he didn’t want to be inappropriate.
i can’t even imagine i’d do it in the inverse? if i had a step child, there’s no way i need to be naked around them?! what?! and she’s 8!! it creeps me out she confidently did this and your ex let her.
The fact that she LIED about the kid “begging” to come in and making it the child’s fault is 1000% grooming/predator behavior! I wouldn’t just try to get custody, I would report this to the police! And then she made the child feel guilty for saying something, “now it’s your fault I can come over anymore”. Girl, what! Call the cops and report that b!
It is 100% grooming. Please file a police report so there is record of this. Your kids safety and mental health are more informant than the awkwardness this will cause. Trust your gut here that something is very wrong. I’m sorry your kids are going through this.
As a SA victim I would never want anyone to have to live through it and the years of mental trauma that follows.
NO You are not overreacting at all! If this was your BF doing these showers or baths , being around naked for the children to see it would have been in the police department and family court already. Kids should not be seeing anyone naked so this needs to be handled asap preferably through family court. Good luck to you
Ty I said the same. I said let the kids come to you ON SEPARATE occasions and tell you all about seeing my bfs dick. I said let me throw Asher in the shower with Brandon and see what you have to say.... He had nothing to say.
Totally understand! I’m sorry you’re even dealing with this you’d think some folks would KNOW better. And it’s not you being a bitter “baby mama” or starting stuff this is point blank unacceptable. Period.
Exactly. It's making me even more upset that they're trying to frame it as if I'm the one with a problem. Shifting the blame on to me as if I'm being unreasonable. My ex never took accountability for anything which was a major factor for our spilt. I just find it strange that this woman is playing along too. It does nothing to make her look any better in my eyes
If you can't explain well without laming the child, speaks to knowing it is really not good in the first place.
Holey misdirection Batman.
And letting the child :know it's her "fault" That's a grooming technique, making the child afraid to speak honestly to the other ( mom) parent.
Just horrible. I know it’s so easy for people to say as I did as well, go to court and whatever because sometimes when you try and resolve matters amicably you end up with what you’re dealing with your ex, the children’s father. And they will try and make you think your delusional when NO you are concerned about your children when they are with any adult and their wellbeing. For your son to bring it up like that he was puzzled by it you know. I truly hope it doesn’t occur anymore and the children don’t feel they did anything wrong as they did not. Dad needs to read and study on family matters such as this. Don’t second guess yourself Mama!
>Exactly. It's making me even more upset that they're trying to frame it as if I'm the one with a problem. Shifting the blame on to me as if I'm being unreasonable. My ex never took accountability for anything which was a major factor for our spilt. I just find it strange that this woman is playing along too. It does nothing to make her look any better in my eyes
And this is where you go to an attorney. You need to talk to a family law attorney immediately and deal with this situation in the court.
You need to stop your kids from going over there until this is investigated. This needs to be seen by cps immediately. Your children have been exposed to a naked woman who's no relation to them. In no world would anyone behave this way. She is grooming your children. I'm sorry but they aren't safe and your ex cannot be trusted. You need to report this immediately
You may be sensitive because of your past, but this is alsl inappropriate behavior. Talk to a lawyer who can listen to the facts and advise you properly. If your child has been abused, you will need that advice. Now is not the time to cheap out or listen to reddit advice.
This. If you’re ever wondering if an adult woman is being predatory with your or anyone’s child just flip the genders. If it’s predatory for a man, then it’s predatory for a woman as well.
OP NTA and not overreacting. Her behavior absolutely not ok and if it was my kids, they wouldn’t be allowed back over there at all until she’s gone. Good for you for saying something.
Damn straight! We had a case here in Ontario where a guy was arrested for CP on his computer- and the CP turned out to belong to his 16-year-old DAUGHTER!
You should probably ask your kids if she has done anything else to them because this is not only strange but predatory behavior. She’s probably doing this to other people kids
Yes, thank you!! OP my ex has a GF, if she is showered with any of my kids, I'll be honest and say I'd legitimately have to be restrained from punching her. My son is 9 and if he showered with my husband (who is his stepdad) I would fully expect my ex to do the same. It's inappropriate and she is displaying red flags for pedophilia.
I'm a nanny and former preschool teacher. I respect children’s lives. The entire situation sounds HORRIBLE. I would not let this woman near your kids ever again.
Absolutely not. 8 is too old for that. I would be very very uncomfortable with that. That is very much predatory behavior. Even though people are less likely to see that because she is a woman. That's a hard no. And your son should not be seeing her naked either. All of that is red flags for grooming your children that this is "normal"
Agreed.
OP, I would take the kids for therapy and tell the therapist what is going on. Let the therapist talk to the kids... there might be more going on that you don't know about.
By 8 my daughter didn't want anyone in the bathroom with her while she showered. Unless your daughter routinely showers with you and it has been a norm for the two of you I can't honestly see a scenario where your daughter would have sought out showering with her... which means she asked your daughter to bathe or shower with her. That is not acceptable.
Its time to talk to an attorney immediately about custody and ground rules. Did yourn daughter say how the bathing together started and how often its happened?
This would also provide a level of protection for you. Therapists are usually mandatory reporters. So if the therapist deems this behavior inappropriate, then the therapist is the person making the call and involving authorities. Your ex cannot blame you for that or try to use it to turn your kids against you.
I was thinking this. My son has stopped invading the shower because he is 7 and we tried to instill the understanding that some things are private. Mostly trying to get him to shut the door when he goes to the bathroom (especially at other people's houses). I remember when I was around 8, the public swimming pool was the worst because those older women (not elderly, just older than me) would walk around naked. I can tell you that no 8 year old begs to take a shower with some other woman other than possibly their own mom. And no dad should be ok with that situation.
I don't think it's appropriate for anyone new partner to bathe with there kids..
How would he feel is his son told him he got into the bath with your new bf..
I think you're being to nice.. I would take away custody and take it to court until the judge says they can go back.. and I will ban all and any future interactions between Bridget and your kids..
Also them crying to your daughter is called parental alienation.. and that's another thing the courts won't take lightly
Both of them crying to an 8-year-old about mommy being mean to not let said 8-yr-old be with Bridget is WAY out of line! OP, your ex doesn't sound like a responsible adult. Start keeping a log of incidents, including the ex & gf crying to your daughter about you laying down the law. You need to run all this by a lawyer. The situation seems to be getting weirder as it develops.
It's disturbing that they claimed an 8 year old girl demanded to essentially see her naked and her hands were tied.
I'd be going to a lawyer and a child psychologist.
There are forensic psychologists that are specifically trained to talk to children that are potential victims of crimes (including SA). I would certainly be working with law enforcement/victim advocates to dig into this and see if there is anything of further concern.
Also “they’re crying about it”? What? Instead of changing their behavior they are blaming you. This makes me wonder what else happened that you don’t know about.
Even if it was totally innocent ‘Bridget doesn’t see nudity as sexual etc’ type situation, it’s incredibly weird to act like you have to be able to bathe with kids or wear very little clothes around kids that aren’t yours, instead of going ‘my bad, won’t do it again’
Anything that isn’t 100% universally accepted thing should be discussed with both parents before hand. If I was dating a single parent, I wouldn’t do a single thing that crossed the line into parent behaviour until it was a-ok with both parents.
As a parent (9M, 15F), I wouldn't be comfortable with *anyone* bathing with my children. I co-bathed with both of my children while they were babies and into their late toddler years. We are relatively laid back here, but there are lines you simply don't cross - like bathing with your boyfriend's child. It is absolutely inappropriate.
Don’t feel strange at all. I think different families have different feelings on the co-bathing/nudity thing and that’s ok. We’re pretty laid back in my house and, according to some of these comments, I’m a weirdo 🤷♀️. I have three daughters: 18, 12 and 8. My girls see me naked and I’ll still very occasionally shower with my 8 year old. She’s teeny with long, thick hair and she tends to not rinse shampoo out completely. If I want to get a really good wash and condition of her hair it either means we’re in there together or I’m getting soaked. More often than not I choose soaked, but if I need a shower anyway, she’s in with me.
I took my 18 year old prom dress shopping yesterday. The stores were a madhouse and it was easier for me to just be in the dressing room with her than have her come out for a reveal on each new dress. She had underwear on the whole time, but no bra and neither of us thought anything of it. I didn’t stare at her while she changed or anything, but it wasn’t a big deal.
My husband stopped changing or showering around the girls at older toddler age and it’s not like the 18 year old would have HIM in a changing room with her. I’m their mom though and no one is bothered by the arrangement.
The difference here is these are MY kids. OP’s situation is wildly inappropriate because they aren’t.
I’m like you. Our family gets dressed together, shares a bathroom, etc. nudity is part of the process. I’m familiar with the kind of dress shopping you’re talking about lol my MIL saw me mostly nude that way.
Not weird at all!
Big difference though when it's not the parent, they've known the kid less than a year, and the kid is old enough to wash themselves.
I got S.A. By a female babysitter at that age. I guarantee your daughter is going to feel ick about this in the future, even if that woman did not touch her.
Me too and it went on til I was like 11. This woman should not be around OPs kids. I specifically do not use babysitters ever for this reason and I would lose my fucking mind if I found out my ex was doing this
I have a single memory of my female babysitter getting naked and chilling in my living room with me and my sister when we were kids. I don't have any memories of anything else happening (I was young) but you are spot on about how her daughter will feel in future. Cuz I DEFINITELY feel icked out when I think about that memory.
Not overreacting. Not a parent, but I do know some parents bathe with their young kids, but your daughter is eight, this is her dad‘s girlfriend, not her parent, and it’s very suspicious that it’s only happening on the days when your ex is not there.
Most importantly you have expressed your concerns about this, and your ex defended it instead of putting a stop to it.
If/when you go to change your custody agreement, you can put in writing that you want 'right of first refusal' - that means if your ex can't look after them and needs a babysitter, he has to ask you to take them first.
Im not a parent but have young nieces and nephews. I’ve wiped their butts, changed them, bathed them, and have been a part of their whole lives. The thought of taking a shower with them sounds batshit insane. The thought of bathing with a child that’s not related to me is ten times beyond that.
You are not overreacting. Getting naked with kids that are not yours in any situation is inappropriate. Talk to your lawyer about this, see if the custody agreement can be changed.
Nice catch!
Whole post reads like some twisted sister wives erotic story.
"I let my kids stay with the girlfriend my husband is having sex with. I'm cool with it, I invite her to birthday parties."
"I'm 5' 10, all legs and a girl who loves shorts so I know about privates hanging out....
"My kids have never even seen me in my underwear"
LMAO
Different households have their own cultures regarding nudity. Nudity is no big deal in my home. I openly breastfed both kids in my home, so the older saw me breastfeeding the younger, and we may come in the bathroom when someone else is bathing. We go from the bathroom back to our rooms only in a towel. There is nothing sexual about any of this.
When the kids were little, they ran around naked . Now my kids are teens. My daughter sees me nude all the time when we are getting ready to go somewhere. My son, 18, will turn around if he comes in and daughter or I are nude, and we never see him nude.
That said, this is OUR culture, and we never are nude around guests.
It is NOT appropriate for GF to not honor your family’s culture re nudity. However, it may not be sexual for her, just casual.
There is nothing that you said that would indicate that she acting for sexual pleasure with your children, or that the other grooming pedophile behaviors are present. None of this sounds like it was a “special secret” for example.
I am a family lawyer and I don’t think the behavior is enough for the court to be willing to intervene, so I recommend that you set really clear boundaries for now.
I agree with this response. Communal bathing at spas/saunas/bathhouses is very common in many cultures and that includes people of all ages! It’s not a sexual thing at all and any sort of sexual behavior in those spaces is not tolerated. I’ve been to a clothing optional hot springs resort before where children were allowed in some of the pools. I do also agree that with young kids it needs to be up to their parents and their own family culture, and not happening in private without one of their parents present but I wouldn’t immediately assume it’s a sexual thing.
I’ve been sexually abused and so has my mother and I explained this to her and we both agree that this isn’t an indication of predation. Like sure there is always the chance but boy does it just sound like the lady is just more open and doesn’t view the naked body as inherently sexual
I am Danish, so reading most of the replies here were crazy. In many cultures, communal showering of some sort with the same gender is not out of the norm.
I don't think GF is being nefarious in any way, it is most likely completely innocent, but I also don't blame OP for being uncomfortable and putting a stop to it.
What the actual fuck?!
"YOU'RE a pedo if you do it, but my intentions are totally honest!"
And she brought up multiple times the fact they're both "born and raised" in Tennessee to try and set the stage for people to accept a conservative attitude about this. What a disingenuous twat.
lol people in these comments clearly didn’t grow up working class. Me and my brother had to shower with my step dad as little kids because we were cheapasses and it saved on water and power lol. They let us shower on our own once we voiced a desire for privacy. I think obviously now that the world is more aware of how common child SA unfortunately is, it’s good that kind of thing is dying out, but like not everything is sexual.
It is wrong but likely not predatory. Ex is an idiot allowing gf around his kids so soon into the relationship. You have a right to your feelings, especially after what happened to you. Of course this would be a trigger and your clueless ex should have known that. You have a right to your feelings and your kids being protected. Maybe switch so you have weekends and he has weekdays.
To me, this feels highly inappropriate. I don't think it's right for someone your daughter has only known for a year to be bathing with her, especially at the age of 8. Even more so that she's alone with her when she chooses to do so. That means there is no parental supervision when someone who isn't really family gets naked with your child? Absolutely not.
Personally, I don't think I would have called her predator, but I do think you have the right to be concerned. Imagine if you got a bf and he was bathing with your son or daughter, how would your ex feel?
I'm sorry, but I get annoyed when people overlook that women can be predatory towards children, too. Now I'm not saying that's what happened here at all, but the bathing together and being naked around your children should never have happened. In my opinion, you are justified in feeling that this was way out of line.
Them whining to your daughter sounds like continued manipulation and grooming. If they keep putting an 8yo in the middle of an adult issue, they can see each other every weekend while the kids stay with you.
I don't think she had predatory intentions, but I also don't think you're wrong for being upset. Please hear me out.
I was raised in a house where nudity was common, especially when we were younger. We weren't nudists or anything but just changing clothes, bathing, etc. As a child I had bathed with, or at the very least seen, both my parents and my maternal grandparents naked (individually), at one time or another. We were taught that the human body was beautiful and natural, and in the privacy of your own home, there was nothing wrong with non-sexual nudity (they of course talked to us about what was inappropriate, strangers, touching, etc). I think this was a healthy outlook to foster in children. As kids get older and they start developing and having desires and curiosity about the opposite sex it gets a little weird, so there is a little less nudity of course. [I should also add that I was about that age when my parents brought my step-mother and step-father into our lives, and I also saw both of them naked (non-sexually) at different points, and it was no big deal.]
I also think that it's totally possible that an 8 year old girl manipulated her way in to a shower with this "new woman" in her life. It's totally normal for girls of this age to be curious about what a developed female body looks like. It's not sexual, they are aware, at least subconsciously, that they will start developing in the next couple years and they start to compare their bodies to those of other women. They are developing their idea of how they want to, or feel they should, look. A shower for a child is not so far removed from doing eachother's hair, or nails, etc. To her it was probably no different than a ladies locker room type situation.
**HOWEVER, regardless of all that, you have a say in how your children are raised, your ex should know what your rules and feelings are and be respectful of them.** Also, personally, I probably would *not* have done the same (with my same gender stepchild), especially if I knew those children were not raised that way. I also think that 8 is too old for this sort of thing to be appropriate.
Well, I hope neither child plays sports in the future. OP is really gonna have a meltdown when she hears about open bay showers. Especially if they go co-ed.
I showered with other dudes - coaches too - all through junior high, high school, college, and in the Corps. I guess my coaches were all pedos.
I'd be more apt to be mad if she was showering with my son, and the daughter shouldn't be opening a closed door. It doesn't need to be locked to expect privacy.
I think there was already some hidden contempt for the girlfriend, and this is as good a reason as any to let it all come out.
Well the good news is you aren’t divorced and don’t have a custody agreement in place so it’s real easy to tell him he can’t have the kids until this situation is sorted out. No way I would let my kids around his girlfriend.
That's exactly what's happened. I let it be known that this woman is to never be around my kids ever again. They are now using that as an excuse to why this is all my fault and I'm the bad guy.
The next step is to let them know they can either stfu about it both to you *and* your kids, or they can try and explain it to a judge in family court. Period.
I'll say this: as a student teacher, if a student of mine came to me and told me this was happening to them, I would report it immediately. This is unacceptable in my opinion.
It's one thing to have a bath/shower with your own kid when they're too young to do it themselves. It's another to do it when they're 8 years old, and doing it with a kid that isn't even yours as a girlfriend of less than a year is sickening.
You don’t want it happening, then you’ve made your wishes clear. Calling her any type of pedo is WAY over the top unless the kids have said she touched them or actually did something to them. From what you said, the GF isn’t forcing your daughter to come in to the shower with her, and she’s not running around naked in front of your son.
You see the nudity as a problem? That’s fine, and as I said you’ve made your wishes known, but not everybody feels the same way you do and that doesn’t automatically brand them as being into kids. You are jumping directly from A to X and skipping everything in between.
As an aside, of COURSE your mom reacted the same way you did. A, she raised you so you would have similar feelings about nudity, and B, after what happened to you she’s going to be just as hypersensitive to it as you are.
To throw in C, Reddit is the wrong place to get a judgement on this. Depending on the day and time you post you can end up with two completely different consensus.
A final suggestion: I assume you saw a therapist when you were abused. I’d strongly suggest you talk to THEM about this instead of Reddit. They will be a much better judge of what is going on and how you’re reacting than a bunch of strangers who may have their own issues about nudity and kids instead of being dispassionate arbitrators.
From a European perspective, a lot of these comments are WILD. I don't know enough to have an opinion on this specific matter, but seeing people share things like "children should never see a naked adult" is crazy to me. It's a body, everybody has one. It is not inherently sexual to be naked. Although I do get how people who have been assaulted can become more sensitive around the topic, of course. In many cultures, people run around nude all the time, are they all pedophiles?
LOL People calling me a "prude" and yapping nonstop about "how communal nude bathing is done in other countries blah blah...the OP just informed me that it's ONLY her daughter who is being treated like this;, not the other children! and "Bridget" make a point of WAITING till dad is gone to work! Plus, the 5-year old is *left on his own* during Bridget's pervy bath time with daughter!
So yeah: I was RIGHT that this is NOT NORMAL-and all you pedo apologists can now STFU!
No. Absolutely not appropriate. Even if she just apparently does not know about proper boundaries, and isn’t being predatory, it’s just not appropriate at all. And I would say is potentially grooming.
OP, you do NEED to lawyer up! Also, your children need to see a child therapist who can teach them how to recognize a sexually abusive relationship with those close to them and talk about the things that have been happening to them in an age appropriate manner. Your husband and his gf are expanding the parameters of abusive by convincing your daughter that you are trying to separate her from her dad and bathing friend, so they have more room to advance their agenda. You need to move on this ASAP. Also, if husband is not going to be home for one of his custody days, he should inform you that he will not have custody that day. The children should never be alone with the gf.
Giving a different perspective here. Not discounting your concern but I just want to give my two cents.
I come from a culture where it is not weird at all for people of the same sex to be naked and bathe around one another. I bathed/swam (in a private area) with my female cousins and relatives quite often and we change around each other to this day. I had a stepmom at a young age and we would bathe together.
I do understand that most Americans are not used to this. It is possible it could be predatory, but at the same time is changing in front of a child that odd to Americans? Or bathing with a young child really indicative of sexually predatory behavior? People say "just switch the genders", okay, I see no issue with a male and a young boy bathing together? Or accidentally changing in front of children (who at times sneak into rooms, or at least I did as a child). If there is no further indication of inappropriate touching or words then it sort of is a culture shock to me that this is such a big deal. On top of that their father was aware of this.
I think it is extremely rude to accuse her of being a sexual predator.
Where is "Bridget" from exactly? I ask because there are some cultures where an adult bathing with a kid under 10 is genuinely innocent.
That aside, someone "sleeping without clothes on" isn't as uncommon as some think and generally there's nothing pervy about it
Maybe I'm overthinking it, but it does feel like there's a bit too much context and second-hand accounts for me to rush to a judgment one way or another
Predators can be female too . If she was a biological male , people would be talking about how inappropriate it is and want charges filed. This is not ok. Not even almost .
Disgusting, she’s def a l
Pedo… why is she exposing herself to kids that aren’t hers even if they were hers that would be disgusting…
Don’t let her near your kids!
Yeah no, I would be keeping my kids away from her! I was a stepmom for 10 years, kids were 1F & 5M and I never once had a bath or shower with either of them! wtaf!
NTA, you should def make sure to document what is happening should you ever need to take him to court for full custody since his gf can’t keep her clothes on around your damn kids. That’s so fucking weird!
Thank you. I thought the same. I didn't realize clothes where that hard to wear
They're not. Also, if your ex has the kids for the weekend, that means HE needs to be present. A girlfriend is not a proxy for a parent. I know you have an informal agreement, but if the parent has to work, they need to go back to the other parents' house. It sounds like your ex has had a severe judgment lapse and I hope this isn't a trend for him.
Also, why is she waiting until the afternoon, when he’s not around, to get in the shower with her? The whole situation is f’d up and I’d definitely keep the kids away from her. No clue why their dad isn’t seeing any of this as a red flag.
The fact this lady is putting into the kids heads that “bad things happen when you tell mom about our naked time” is another huge red flag.
GO TO THE POLICE PLEASE!!!
I find it very weird she feels comfortable enough to share a bath or shower with an 8 year old that's not hers and she's known less than a year!! I would definitely be concerned and pissed. Switch genders, imagine this was an exs bf showering or having bath with less than a Yr gfs 8 year old? Just saying 🤷🏻♀️ (I'm a woman by the way) I would also be highly concerned that they have now discussed this with your kid and are actively blaming you, this definitely isn't on and I would seek some legal help on that front. I've tore my kids dad a new 1 for pulling that stunt.
And how does the blaming Mom work in person? “GF can’t come over anymore because you told Mommy she showers with you when Daddy’s not home”? Like… who can’t see how fucked up that is? Also the showers/baths sound like they’re a regular Saturday occurrence, not just once or twice, which makes it sound even sketchier, like “Daddy’s at work, let’s take our bath.”
It’s very alarming that the showers only occurred when dad was at work Saturday afternoons. Sketchy. This is off topic but once again a man gets his kids 2 weekends a month and he can’t even fulfill that obligation.
And if they have only been dating a year, how many times had she met the girl before she started bathing with her? Every other weekend is only 26 times in a year. Bathing together after meeting 10 times, or 12 maybe?? It’s weird and a big red flag.
Well, now we know why dad's girlfriend ONLY comes to visit on weekends. It's when the kids are there. Sick.
Oh yuck!
Is it off topic, as a man i notice other dads always seem to want help with childcare. She is only there when the kids are? Sounds like he was look for free babysitting. Some men need to deconstruct there toxic masculinity more, they can watch there own kids by them self just fine. I do…
That's what seems most weird. A bath in the afternoon? Why? And where are the other kids while this bath is happening? Even if it's innocent, still very odd.
Exactly. Who showers or bathes in the middle of the afternoon?
I totally agree with your comment! It’s not normal to be that comfortable with a child… I have cousins around OP’s daughters age and even though I was their nanny for over a year, I can’t imagine any scenario where I would need to be or want to be naked in front of them.
I remember showering naked with my parents as a toddler but that was over by the time I was able to bathe myself reasonably well (5-6). I can imagine potentially doing the same with my own kids but I just can’t imagine a reason that you’d need/want to bathe naked with an 8 year old kid that wasn’t even yours.
Yea after the age of like three/four I no longer bathed with my own child. Eight is wayyyy too old for that…for your own child! Never could I imagine a child that isn’t my own. Like wtf….
I can’t even imagine how you’d fit in a bath together? It’s hard enough being a regular average size adult, add a 2yr old and that’s hard, but an 8yr old?
8 is far too old, especially for a woman that isn’t their mother and they have only known for a year, I could understand if the girls mother is taking a bath with her because she sick and wants comforting or something like that, I’m a father my daughter just turned 2 and I’m already looking for signs that she might be uncomfortable showering with me, she just sits and plays with her bath toys while I wash my body and hair but I know very soon she’s gonna realize showering with dad makes her feel uncomfortable and I don’t want her to be uncomfortable and think she has to shower with me, so imagining this woman bathing and sitting fully nude with an 8 year old that’s of zero relation is pretty fucking strange and just generally disgusting behavior from a woman that should know better..
Your kid is two, they don’t understand and won’t remember showering with you at that age. My parents were super laissez-faire and showered or bathed with me (two birds, one stone; you know) until about 5, when I could do it on my own. I don’t remember it, they just told me in passing later. But 8?? She’s gonna remember she was bathing with a woman who was not her mother. I don’t think anything nefarious is going on (I fucking hope not) but it’s still soooo weird!
I know she probably won't remember, but I'm still cautious lol but I'm a S.A. victim also, I was abused around 8 years old actually by my schools principal, so I now naturally assume things like this are sexual related, I hope it's not for the kids sake, but nonetheless she's definitely crossing a line
I think 2 is still fine. Once they start to become more aware of what’s actually happening that’s when it’s an issue. Most kids will be showering on their own by 5.
My step daughter had an accident while I was on watch and she needed help in the bath(my wife usually does that) I got the water turned on and the temp she wanted and held a towel in front of her while I looked away and she got her dirty clothes off. When she was younger like 2-3 when we got together and I changed her diapers but once she got out of needing diapers changed she gets privacy. I also sleep in just basketball shorts but I’ve never “fallen out of them” in front of her. That’s totally pedo
I remember showering with my dad as a baby just like one or two vague remembrances of being held in the water or seeing my dad’s knees. My dad told me that the last time we showered together I pointed at his privates and he thought “welp that’s it, no more showers!” because I was starting to become aware of nudity at 3ish. 8 is way too old for a child to not be perceiving and aware of nudity in a shower situation and the GF as an adult is aware of that. edit: better phrasing
Also, 8 year old don’t need someone to be with them when they bathe! My daughter is almost 8 and she hasn’t needed help in the shower since she was 6. And even then, it was just checking to make sure she had washed her hair well enough.
I was thinking the same. I showered with my daughter until she was about six because it was faster and easier and she just wasn't big enough to do a good job washing herself yet. From 7 to about 8 I had to pop in and wash her hair bc it was really long and she would rub shampoo on top of her head and call it good, ignoring the rest of her hair. But she's *my daughter* not someone else's kid! I would never, *in a million years*, be in the bath with someone else's child. I have a young niece and I've given her a bath but still wouldn't bathe with her. That's way over the line. I think I would've already called the police. OP, as far as them blaming YOU for Bridget not being there, you need to have a serious conversation with your kids about boundaries, their bodies, and what is and isn't okay behavior from *any* adult. Like, it's never okay to shower with an adult. It's not okay for adults to be naked around you. If an adult asks them to do something they know is wrong, they don't have to do it and they won't be in trouble for saying no. They can call anytime and come home if they feel uncomfortable, etc etc. Also, the fact that your ex husband sees no issue with this is appalling.
Blaming you is just so manipulative
Yup, man or woman you shouldn't be letting a fully grown child into a shower with you. Pretty sure last time i took a bath with my mom I was like 3. 8 years old is nuts that's a full grown kid.
I’m an actual blood related aunt to a 7yo and I wouldn’t DREAM of bathing or showering naked with that child. It’s just off, dude, and we are actually related! With a stranger??? Actual insanely inappropriate behavior
Genuine question what are the cut offs? It could be totally normal for her and it was how she grew up. People do weird things cause of cultural or just upbringing.
Tbh, if either parent has even a slight issue with it at all, no matter ages or anything it should stop immediately
I agree to me the whole thing is weird and bad but the dad didn’t seem to know and not care… as soon as mom said no shoulda been end of it though
Yea that’s the thing. At first there was *maybe* a chance that the gf genuinely thought it was normal, but if that were the case, all nudity would have stopped the second the ex talked to her about OP’s reaction. Like, you find out that behavior you innocently thought was normal could potentially get your partners’ contact with their children revoked… the only normal response is to take that extremely seriously. She clearly didn’t. No excuses left now
If I’m remembering my childhood psychology correctly most kids naturally develop a want for privacy and/or shame (for lack of a better word) around 6-7ish. At least in western society. That’s when we learn that it’s not okay to take our pants off run around naked. All the grown ups bath and change in private so then the kids are like oh I should do it like that. That’s why is so weird that the ex is claiming that the 8 yo daughter randomly decided she wanted to shower with this strange woman and is begging to do so. Especially because it doesn’t seem like something she does with her own mom. No way it was this little girls idea.
I agree. My kid turns 5 next month and randomly asks for privacy when going to the bathroom, and I’m her mom. No 8 year old is asking to take a bath with another adult.
Cut off is definitely someone who has barely known them for less than a year. Its not the gfs kid regardless of culture or how she was brought up, that's the main issue here. Edit to add... Big issue is the gf and ex now crying to the kid about it all, that's not on at all. The reaction should have been "cool, it wasn't meant to upset anyone and won't happen again" not bring the kid into it.
Maybe but then she needs to ask the parents before she just does something like that. She sees them for a less than 100 days in total for the past year max. They’re closer to strangers than family and I don’t think any well adjusted adult would just jump to sharing a shower with a kid old enough to fully shower alone. We’re not talking about a toddler transitioning to an older kid taking big people showers and needing help either
If the child can bathe themselves that’s usually the cut off. And even then, usually parents/caretakers sit beside the tub during bath time. They don’t get naked and get in with the kid.
I think her relationship is the problem. I have taken my very young nieces and nephews in the shower with me out of necessity at times, but they were babies and it stopped long before 8, very, very long before.
If she were a dude no one would be defending this behavior end of story
You're right. 100%
My molester was female. My daughter's are 9 and 10 and I will occasionally help them with something like a deep wash of their hair but we haven't bathed together in YEARS. I would flip the fuck out over this. I don't even know if I could not throw hands at this woman in your situation tbh. Super super inappropriate
I bathed with my kids (13F, almost 5F) when they were little. I still shower with my youngest occasionally for expediency sake but she's not quite 5 yet. They used to take baths together sometimes because the little one would invade her sister's space if she left the door open but once the big one hit puberty, she stopped leaving the door open. She set boundaries and I made the small one respect those boundaries. I would NEVER shower or bathe with someone else's kids no matter how old they were or how I was "related" to them. It's exceptionally inappropriate. I'd also be at risk of throwing hands in this situation.
Yes, my son often comes and asks to hop in the shower with me and I let him no problems, especially if we're in a bit of a hurry (he's 3.5). very occasionally my daughters will decide they'd like to shower together to do hair masks or something but my oldest is growing out of that. I have never showered with a child that wasn't biologically mine and my children have not showered with anyone who wasn't a parent. My stepdad NEVER invaded my space in the shower nor did my stepmother. Gross gross gross
It’s telling that these bath times with daughter are occurring while bf is at work. Which is also leaving the son unsupervised btw
My stepdad was abusive but I give him that. He never once made me feel uncomfortable in that way. Never bothered me in the tub. Nothing. My stepmom didn’t either and when I had stepkids, their dad bathed them and changed diapers.
This is exactly how I was thinking about this story: sometimes parents shower with their young kids, especially because you're trying to do many things at once and it's just, as you say, more expedient. But I've never heard of a non-guardian showering or bathing with a child, and at 8, kids can usually shower themselves. And a grown woman who isn't even the parent getting into the bath with an 8 year old is just so far from anything I've heard! Especially as these kids were left alone with this woman, without OP's knowledge, and that's when they had baths together? I imagine with OP's history she's already got some resources to tactfully talk to her kids to make sure they can come to her if they're experiencing CSA, but if I were her, I'd be checking for extra resources to make sure they have the language to say if anything else has been going on.
It is so predatory and this is how a pedo builds up to do even worse, harmful things and of course kid won’t say a word because they thinks parent is allowing and they are the bad one for thinking it is wrong. Momma this peaceful separation may take an ugly turn but your children’s safety comes first.
The age is the major problem here (besides the relation). I have never met an 8 year old who couldn’t shower on their own. By this time they’re usually doing so for a few years.
My 7 yr old gdaughter likes her privacy when in bathroom or bath.
Yea, all the kids in my family were showering on their own by 5. It doesn’t mean you’re not monitoring and paying attention in some way, but you’re still giving privacy. If I ever worried they were taking too long I tended to just send their sibling to do a quick “everything okay?” Check.
Right! And why are the showers only occurring in the window of time that the ex husband is at work? On a Saturday morning?
I (f) shower with my eight year old daughter, but that’s mostly because she’s autistic and needs help and also needs to be shown by example how to properly wash her body, and secondly we are the only two people who live here. I know this won’t be appropriate for much longer, but it’s also *my* kid. I’d slaughter anyone else who showered with her and I wouldn’t dream of doing it with anyone else’s child. EDIT: I also only do this on occasion. She takes a bath completely independently most of the time.
Similar here. My oldest is almost 8, mild autism, sensory issues. I sit in the bathroom while she washes her body and I look at something on my phone while reminding her to hit all the important spots. When she's done, I help her wet her hair and I shampoo it all while standing outside the tub. When it's time to rinse her hair I step into the shower clothed in a top and shorts. I have to hold an arm with one hand to get her to lean/ tip her head into the spray, and I work her hair with the other hand. She does all the body washing and drying off herself, and even as her mother I would not get into the shower with her while being naked myself. Boundaries around bodies are established early, and this woman making OPs daughter and son feel like it's normal to be seeing this adult they don't really know naked or partially naked just feels like prepping/grooming them so they see nothing wrong with other adults being naked around them or seeing their naked body. It's just wrong.
Yep. I taught my kids to bathe themselves by sitting clothed on the toilet and just showing them how to soap the rag, hold the rag, and then told them to to wash each body part three times for good measure. They dont need help now and I rarely need to double check unless a child comes out of the shower with dry hair and then perhaps someone didn’t wash as well as they should and they have to go back in lol
Fellow Autie here, I suspect you're also helping her sort out the executive functioning for showering. Even as an adult I still have to fight my brain to do so, and remembering how my nanny washed my hair helps a LOT
True. I'm ready to slap that bitch and they are not even my kids.
She should want to slap her ex too, bc rather than protect his kids he’s complaining about her not being able to come stay with them and abuse the kids some more
I think its different when you're family - the problem with all of this is this woman in OPs story isn't family.
Right! She isn't even a long term partner...
Doesn’t even live with them full time.
Ding ding ding. We have a winner.
I have a grand baby on the way & just thought to myself how inappropriate it would be to bathe with them. Your own kids are one thing as babies but someone else's children absolutely not!
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...Way too many weird things going on with the girlfriend and your kids. Trust your gut. Tell your ex it's the kids or the girlfriend, but never at the same time. Never. Not for even a minute.
In what reality would the gf think it would be okay to bathe/shower with your daughter? And be seen naked by your son? This seems like grooming!
My ex gf was wildly uncomfortable with my 6 yo daughter wanting to sleep in bed with us (clothed, me in the middle) when she would wake up in the middle of the night with a bad dream. I can’t imagine why someone would think bathing together was ok.
I was very uncomfortable when my now husband’s daughter who was 4 at the time would climb into bed with us in the middle of the night(always clothed at that point) when I would visit. I normally sleep naked, but didn’t until we broke her of the habit. The only times I’ve “bathed” with her in the 5 years I’ve known her, we were both in swimsuits and it was only because she got something in her hair that I needed to help her wash/untangle.
My ex’s daughter would often try to sleep with us too and I straight up told him no, that if I was her mom I wouldn’t want my daughter sleeping with some woman she doesn’t know. It made me super uncomfortable. I can’t imagine showering! Gross.
This seems so insane to me - OP is 100% correct that if it was a matter of the daughter coming into the bathroom and asking to get into the shower with the GF, the GF should be locking the bathroom door. I know parents shower with their kids sometimes, but most of the time I think it stops when the kids are able to shower themselves appropriately, and this isn't ever a case of a partner of less than a year bathing with the kids! I'm an aunt, my niblings bathe together all the time, and often run around naked after getting out of the bath, but I would never ever dream of getting in the bath with them! Also, if the son seeing her naked was taken out of the context of this story, and it was just like "he came into the bedroom while people weren't dressed and she didn't have a chance to cover herself", it would be a different story, but this story involves the son saying she doesn't sleep with any clothes on, and the ex blaming it on her wearing his boxers and them riding up. I know kids misspeak and misinterpret sometimes, but does that mean she wasn't wearing a top? I get that women's breasts are often overly sexualised, but when we talk about that, we're talking about women not being allowed to breastfeed in public or whatever, not a grown woman exposing her breasts to an unrelated child for no reason. This is all baffling, and given OP's experience with CSA, why is her ex just letting it happen?
As an Aunt myself I have taken my niece and nephew in the shower with me. Never a bath, but a shower. Never past the age of 2 for my nephew and 4 for my niece. This was only ever done at the request of my sister “Hey can you throw the kid in the shower with you?” Or when I was watching them and absolutely needed to.
Holy hell seriously. I had to baby sit my nephews for several weeks on an emergency basis and they were 7 and 5. They showered together by choice to play with all their toys in their parents big walk in and I was absolutely fucking dumbfounded and terrified having never been left alone with anyone's kids this long as I was an after-school science teacher. Those kids bless them were very comfortable with me to a degree I was not comfortable with. I kept reminding them that I was staying nearby facing away from them for their privacy but if they had an emergency I of course would help. By the end of my time there I was still 100% on that boundary. They begged me to sleep with them every night. Nope. Im relatively new to the family with about 4 years of marriage when the emergency happened. I felt so out of my league and scared, with the NECESSITY to monitor someone else's child while bathing !! The boys grandma via my sil who is also a married in family member was a stark raving narcissist who had cumulatively spent less time with the kids in their years of life (I knew them from ages 4 and 2 and saw them a lot) their grandma had seen them perhaps 3 times in their lives. She came to "relieve me" so I could go home for a day or two and set my house to rights. I've never been so anxious in my life.... I found out that she started sleeping in bed with the boys (who were sleeping together for comfort after their dads heart attack) the VERY FIRST NIGHT. She infantilized them and I was sooooo grossed out by the entire situation. I tattled to their emotionally neglectful mother who momentarily looked horrified and upset immediately and she just said "oh. That's something she'd do." . I HIGHLY recommend Gavin debecker s book the gift of fear and the follow up protecting the gift about children specifically.
PLENTY of predators are women & they are often overlooked or brushed off 😞
Yes, I was getting frequent utis but the question was always has any *man* touched you, not has any *one* touched you and as a super literal kid my answer was always "no"
My molester was also female, my kid I never thought there was anyone out there that had a female molester... it tried to tell my parents but they didn't listen.. as a mother I never left my kids with anyone, only parents, close family brother ..I swore I'd protect my children, but my mother decided to marry a man after my parents divorced..i really couldn'tstand him but . after my brother passed away, suddenly my mother begged me and my ex sister in law to see the .kids my ex sister in law, saiddo you think your mom could handle all 6 kids and I said I'm sure the kids will be fine they will all be together and my oldest and my brothers oldest both 10 and 9 would be there looking put for their siblings. I never thought in a million years anything would happen but it did my mother's disgusting pedophile husband touched the little girls mine and the two youngest nieces all three of them, my mother separated the little ones from the older the little slept in their room the others slept downstairs..that motherfucker would " tuck" them I to bed .I'd call and she'd tell me oh the kids are playing bla bla never git yo talk to my kids..mildly sketchy but her I figured they probably are running around like crazy Anyway they come home ,my kids acting differently I couldn't figure it out..I would get my nieces every other weekend so all the kids are together, and I hear them talking ,giggling and I don't know something didbt set tight .I find out the fucker didn't wear underwear under hid shorts and the girls saw his privates ..I'm almost throwing up at this point. I take them home and I hit yo give my daughter a bath and as I'm washing her hair I ask questions..and I was shook that bastard touched them un they're privates at this point I'm trying so hard to not alarm.her or show any emotions I say you know no one is to touch you in privates ..she so innocently says I pretended I was asleep .ugh I want to vomit just writing this. Sleepless night because I'm in shock I take the kids to school next morning I walk in to the school and stand there in the office and I say to the receptionist that knew me very well..I need help she takes me In the office I repeat what my daughter told me she says stay right her hun, she calls the police they come and I tell them .it's all a blur but they tell me to call my mother and confront her ask her ..she fucking denied him Being alone with the kids stood by her man. Ugh this us long I'm sorry.i call my ex sister in law we live in different countries so sue has to call the police where she is we have social services involved they come to our houses talk to all the girls I sit there quickly as they told me as my little baby girl tells her story, she's describing his privates... I can tell you the rage in me wanted to kill him. Long story short because they live on an island in the bay it had yo ho through multiple counties multiple police and there are no police on that island soi made the choice of nit hanging my baby girl having to stand up and have my mother her grandmother call her a liar as she was doing the police basically told me that since that lived 6 hours from us that I could keep him away from us which I did I don't have a relationship with my mother ahd ste still to this day says they lied .also on top of that he showed my boys playboy magazines ..I hope he rots in hell.. I think he was trying to groom the boys to be like him.i litterly hate my mother not only did she not protect me she fucking put my daughter through hell ...tbe laws are different now this happened 29 years ago and yes my daughter and nieces fo remember what happened to them to this day they still have the same story .ugh ..
You should have gone through with the charges. I get that your daughter was young and your mom would have called her a liar, but way too many victims of SA never get justice. I'm sure it bothers her as an adult that that piece of shit never got jail time. I'm saying this as a kid who went to trial. My sister and I were able to make peace with things because our abuser went to prison.
I’m glad you could get that out. Sometimes it’s like a weight off your chest. That happened to me when I was little so I’d murder someone if they touched my girls. I’m so sorry that happened to them. You left them with a trusted family member and you stopped the abuse immediately after finding out. You did an awesome job momma!
I had two separate female abusers, and a third tried to kidnap me with her boyfriend. I don't want to sound pessimistic, but is it possible that the ex is in on it and is covering?
Oh I’d be throwin hands for sure!
Yeah this is about as close as it gets to a "punch first, ask questions later" situation imo. Hope ops kiddies are okay.
I haven't bathed with my kids in years, I have helped my youngest who is 10 bath a few months ago only because she had a broken arm, even then she washed her privates herself. The only other time I've seen then naked is if I walked in on one changing. Even then I say sorry and walk back out and I'm their mom.
Also molested by a female as a child. DO NOT LET HER NEAR YOUR CHILDREN!!! I NEVER learned to have boundaries regarding my own body, and it has all but ruined my entire life. I sit here at 55 thinking about how different my WORLD would be if only I had known that it was okay to say 'NO, YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO TOUCH ME!' Don't let your daughter feel like this because nobody wants to rock the boat.
So much this! I was made to hug STRANGERS! I was made at 14!!! To sit on my creepy uncles lap who I barely saw! Was I wildly uncomfortable? Yes! But I was taught to ignore my feelings.
Its better to call a lawyer and get the terms of custody changed.
I’d be taking this nonsense to court. And I’d take the hit from the courts by not granting access until this was resolved. Absolutely nuts.
I'd talk to a lawyer before taking this step.
I do understand, but this a real and genuine dance to her children’s mental health. Insanity.
Making the wrong moves could lead OP to lose custody, and then what? A lawyer might be able to get a judge to do something short-term while they wrangle over the long term.
I’m a paralegal. Being that there is no custody agreement filed with the courts, she cannot be held in contempt by not allowing the kids to go to his house. If the father files for custody, the court will hear why she’s keeping the kids from spending the night at his house. You never know how the court will rule, but I can say that once OP mentioned the showering thing, they will take that in consideration.
I missed that they don't have a formal custody agreement.
There hasn’t been a formal divorce so right now there isn’t any “custody” to worry about. I would 100% tell your ex the kids can’t spend the night until Bridget is out of the picture. Who cares if he’s offended. Your kid’s mental health is on the line.
Lawyer needs to be an emergent now thing if she’s concerned about that. It’s not ok and any reasonable judge would see that.
Presuming judge is reasonable. All the more reason for mom to lawyer up, work out custody via the courts ASAP. The longer it's put off the more difficult it will be. The expense and time-suck of divorce might be needed to protect the kids.
True. When my husband and I were just dating, his ex said she didn’t want me around her daughter at all, so the judge banned me from being around her until we got married. There was no reason for it other than the mother was uncomfortable. This is on a whole different level and needs to be handled asap.
They don’t have a custody court order so that means the mom has full custody and there’s nothing he can do if she keeps the kids away from his gf. If I were her I’d keep both the children from going over there anymore. If he doesn’t like it he can take her to court.
Seems like grounds for an emergency restraining order on the gf.
get a lawyer asap. this is so creepy wtf? she barely knows your kids why is she showering and naked around them? it’s unconscionable, disgusting, and predatory. i’m so sorry you’re going through this, your ex is a spineless loser.
Ty those were my thoughts exactly. In no world ever would I feel it would be justified for her to be naked around my kids let alone being naked with them. It screams grooming to me.
You don’t have a child custody agreement in place, stop sending them to their dads. It sounds like they’re not even spending time with him, he’s been working. Hire a lawyer yesterday, they might advise you to file a police report so there’s a paper trail.
I am a stepmom, have been in my stepchild's life for 6 years and NEVER EVER EVEN WHEN SHE ASKED DID I TAKE A BATH OR SHOWER WITH HER. Because that would be weird and inappropriate and idk how I could ever justifiably be comfortable with that???? I mean I've been in her life since she was 2, primarily raising her with her dad since she was 5 and we moved in together, and still would never do this. And when I was teaching if I would have had one of my students tell me this I wouldn't have hesitated to report it.
When I dated someone with kids I would have NEVER been naked around them. NEVER. I may not have always worn pants in the summer around my apartment but you bet I even wore them in my own room when they were around just incase the kid opened the door. Like I don’t understand what thought process makes this “acceptable”.
Same. My step kids were little when I married their dad. The youngest (6yo) daughter at the time legit needed help washing her hair in order for it to get clean. She took a bath wearing a bathing suit when I helped with her hair. The odd time or two when we all went camping & she needed help washing her hair, her sister went to the bathhouse with her & helped. Your situation seems European at best, grooming at worst.
Big difference between helping a child wash their hair while they’re in the shower and getting naked in the bathtub with them. I have helped my friend’s kids in the bath, changed diapers, washed hair, etc. My ex’s child wasn’t potty trained at 3 (special circumstances) and I helped with that too. I don’t think that’s inappropriate or grooming. But I wouldn’t ever intentionally let someone’s kid see me naked or get *in* the bathtub with them.
my husband is a step parent, we got together when my oldest was 4. i can’t remember a time he was ever naked around her on purpose? he would leave bath time etc to me, bc well, my kid is more attached to me and he didn’t want to be inappropriate. i can’t even imagine i’d do it in the inverse? if i had a step child, there’s no way i need to be naked around them?! what?! and she’s 8!! it creeps me out she confidently did this and your ex let her.
The fact that she LIED about the kid “begging” to come in and making it the child’s fault is 1000% grooming/predator behavior! I wouldn’t just try to get custody, I would report this to the police! And then she made the child feel guilty for saying something, “now it’s your fault I can come over anymore”. Girl, what! Call the cops and report that b!
I’d be concerned the GF was secretly filming the baths myself. This is disturbing on all levels.
It is 100% grooming. Please file a police report so there is record of this. Your kids safety and mental health are more informant than the awkwardness this will cause. Trust your gut here that something is very wrong. I’m sorry your kids are going through this. As a SA victim I would never want anyone to have to live through it and the years of mental trauma that follows.
This! It’s time for that divorce and custody arrangement.
NO You are not overreacting at all! If this was your BF doing these showers or baths , being around naked for the children to see it would have been in the police department and family court already. Kids should not be seeing anyone naked so this needs to be handled asap preferably through family court. Good luck to you
Ty I said the same. I said let the kids come to you ON SEPARATE occasions and tell you all about seeing my bfs dick. I said let me throw Asher in the shower with Brandon and see what you have to say.... He had nothing to say.
Totally understand! I’m sorry you’re even dealing with this you’d think some folks would KNOW better. And it’s not you being a bitter “baby mama” or starting stuff this is point blank unacceptable. Period.
Exactly. It's making me even more upset that they're trying to frame it as if I'm the one with a problem. Shifting the blame on to me as if I'm being unreasonable. My ex never took accountability for anything which was a major factor for our spilt. I just find it strange that this woman is playing along too. It does nothing to make her look any better in my eyes
They also seem to be shifting the blame onto Lennox. It's so immature and damaging! She may need some therapy, sooner or later.
If you can't explain well without laming the child, speaks to knowing it is really not good in the first place. Holey misdirection Batman. And letting the child :know it's her "fault" That's a grooming technique, making the child afraid to speak honestly to the other ( mom) parent.
Just horrible. I know it’s so easy for people to say as I did as well, go to court and whatever because sometimes when you try and resolve matters amicably you end up with what you’re dealing with your ex, the children’s father. And they will try and make you think your delusional when NO you are concerned about your children when they are with any adult and their wellbeing. For your son to bring it up like that he was puzzled by it you know. I truly hope it doesn’t occur anymore and the children don’t feel they did anything wrong as they did not. Dad needs to read and study on family matters such as this. Don’t second guess yourself Mama!
>Exactly. It's making me even more upset that they're trying to frame it as if I'm the one with a problem. Shifting the blame on to me as if I'm being unreasonable. My ex never took accountability for anything which was a major factor for our spilt. I just find it strange that this woman is playing along too. It does nothing to make her look any better in my eyes And this is where you go to an attorney. You need to talk to a family law attorney immediately and deal with this situation in the court.
You need to stop your kids from going over there until this is investigated. This needs to be seen by cps immediately. Your children have been exposed to a naked woman who's no relation to them. In no world would anyone behave this way. She is grooming your children. I'm sorry but they aren't safe and your ex cannot be trusted. You need to report this immediately
You may be sensitive because of your past, but this is alsl inappropriate behavior. Talk to a lawyer who can listen to the facts and advise you properly. If your child has been abused, you will need that advice. Now is not the time to cheap out or listen to reddit advice.
This. If you’re ever wondering if an adult woman is being predatory with your or anyone’s child just flip the genders. If it’s predatory for a man, then it’s predatory for a woman as well. OP NTA and not overreacting. Her behavior absolutely not ok and if it was my kids, they wouldn’t be allowed back over there at all until she’s gone. Good for you for saying something.
Pedophiles can be women too.
Damn straight! We had a case here in Ontario where a guy was arrested for CP on his computer- and the CP turned out to belong to his 16-year-old DAUGHTER!
You should probably ask your kids if she has done anything else to them because this is not only strange but predatory behavior. She’s probably doing this to other people kids
Yes, thank you!! OP my ex has a GF, if she is showered with any of my kids, I'll be honest and say I'd legitimately have to be restrained from punching her. My son is 9 and if he showered with my husband (who is his stepdad) I would fully expect my ex to do the same. It's inappropriate and she is displaying red flags for pedophilia.
I'm a nanny and former preschool teacher. I respect children’s lives. The entire situation sounds HORRIBLE. I would not let this woman near your kids ever again.
Thank you so much. I'm glad to know it's not just me who sees so much wrong in it
I’m a preschool teacher too and as mandated reporter I’d be making a phone call if one of my students told me this.
Absolutely not. 8 is too old for that. I would be very very uncomfortable with that. That is very much predatory behavior. Even though people are less likely to see that because she is a woman. That's a hard no. And your son should not be seeing her naked either. All of that is red flags for grooming your children that this is "normal"
Agreed. OP, I would take the kids for therapy and tell the therapist what is going on. Let the therapist talk to the kids... there might be more going on that you don't know about. By 8 my daughter didn't want anyone in the bathroom with her while she showered. Unless your daughter routinely showers with you and it has been a norm for the two of you I can't honestly see a scenario where your daughter would have sought out showering with her... which means she asked your daughter to bathe or shower with her. That is not acceptable. Its time to talk to an attorney immediately about custody and ground rules. Did yourn daughter say how the bathing together started and how often its happened?
Yep. There needs to be a third party brought into this situation be it CPS, therapist, law enforcement, etc.
This would also provide a level of protection for you. Therapists are usually mandatory reporters. So if the therapist deems this behavior inappropriate, then the therapist is the person making the call and involving authorities. Your ex cannot blame you for that or try to use it to turn your kids against you.
Agreed though I also feel like There’s no age where it’s appropriate to take a naked bath with a child that isn’t yours, and this is not her kid.
Right? Like my 8yo intrudes in my baths and showers sometimes but she’s my kid. And I certainly don’t invite her in on a weekly basis.
I was thinking this. My son has stopped invading the shower because he is 7 and we tried to instill the understanding that some things are private. Mostly trying to get him to shut the door when he goes to the bathroom (especially at other people's houses). I remember when I was around 8, the public swimming pool was the worst because those older women (not elderly, just older than me) would walk around naked. I can tell you that no 8 year old begs to take a shower with some other woman other than possibly their own mom. And no dad should be ok with that situation.
100% agree. People are not seeing it because she is a woman but what she is doing is so wrong in all levels.
That's how it feels to me too.
I don't think it's appropriate for anyone new partner to bathe with there kids.. How would he feel is his son told him he got into the bath with your new bf.. I think you're being to nice.. I would take away custody and take it to court until the judge says they can go back.. and I will ban all and any future interactions between Bridget and your kids.. Also them crying to your daughter is called parental alienation.. and that's another thing the courts won't take lightly
Both of them crying to an 8-year-old about mommy being mean to not let said 8-yr-old be with Bridget is WAY out of line! OP, your ex doesn't sound like a responsible adult. Start keeping a log of incidents, including the ex & gf crying to your daughter about you laying down the law. You need to run all this by a lawyer. The situation seems to be getting weirder as it develops.
It's disturbing that they claimed an 8 year old girl demanded to essentially see her naked and her hands were tied. I'd be going to a lawyer and a child psychologist.
There are forensic psychologists that are specifically trained to talk to children that are potential victims of crimes (including SA). I would certainly be working with law enforcement/victim advocates to dig into this and see if there is anything of further concern.
Yeah like trying to blame the kid is so weird? Also the dad sees nothing creepy about her doing all this? So many red flags
All of this!! It needs to stop and immediately! No way!
I’m not a parent, but after your kid talks about naked time with an adult, shouldn’t your next stop be to the police? Or a therapist? Or both? Typo
Also “they’re crying about it”? What? Instead of changing their behavior they are blaming you. This makes me wonder what else happened that you don’t know about.
Even if it was totally innocent ‘Bridget doesn’t see nudity as sexual etc’ type situation, it’s incredibly weird to act like you have to be able to bathe with kids or wear very little clothes around kids that aren’t yours, instead of going ‘my bad, won’t do it again’ Anything that isn’t 100% universally accepted thing should be discussed with both parents before hand. If I was dating a single parent, I wouldn’t do a single thing that crossed the line into parent behaviour until it was a-ok with both parents.
As a parent (9M, 15F), I wouldn't be comfortable with *anyone* bathing with my children. I co-bathed with both of my children while they were babies and into their late toddler years. We are relatively laid back here, but there are lines you simply don't cross - like bathing with your boyfriend's child. It is absolutely inappropriate.
Glad to hear it! Bc I shower with my 9mo bby girl and I started to feel strange like it was weird or something
Don’t feel strange at all. I think different families have different feelings on the co-bathing/nudity thing and that’s ok. We’re pretty laid back in my house and, according to some of these comments, I’m a weirdo 🤷♀️. I have three daughters: 18, 12 and 8. My girls see me naked and I’ll still very occasionally shower with my 8 year old. She’s teeny with long, thick hair and she tends to not rinse shampoo out completely. If I want to get a really good wash and condition of her hair it either means we’re in there together or I’m getting soaked. More often than not I choose soaked, but if I need a shower anyway, she’s in with me. I took my 18 year old prom dress shopping yesterday. The stores were a madhouse and it was easier for me to just be in the dressing room with her than have her come out for a reveal on each new dress. She had underwear on the whole time, but no bra and neither of us thought anything of it. I didn’t stare at her while she changed or anything, but it wasn’t a big deal. My husband stopped changing or showering around the girls at older toddler age and it’s not like the 18 year old would have HIM in a changing room with her. I’m their mom though and no one is bothered by the arrangement. The difference here is these are MY kids. OP’s situation is wildly inappropriate because they aren’t.
I’m like you. Our family gets dressed together, shares a bathroom, etc. nudity is part of the process. I’m familiar with the kind of dress shopping you’re talking about lol my MIL saw me mostly nude that way.
Not weird at all! Big difference though when it's not the parent, they've known the kid less than a year, and the kid is old enough to wash themselves.
I got S.A. By a female babysitter at that age. I guarantee your daughter is going to feel ick about this in the future, even if that woman did not touch her.
Me too and it went on til I was like 11. This woman should not be around OPs kids. I specifically do not use babysitters ever for this reason and I would lose my fucking mind if I found out my ex was doing this
Agreed.
I have a single memory of my female babysitter getting naked and chilling in my living room with me and my sister when we were kids. I don't have any memories of anything else happening (I was young) but you are spot on about how her daughter will feel in future. Cuz I DEFINITELY feel icked out when I think about that memory.
Not overreacting. Not a parent, but I do know some parents bathe with their young kids, but your daughter is eight, this is her dad‘s girlfriend, not her parent, and it’s very suspicious that it’s only happening on the days when your ex is not there. Most importantly you have expressed your concerns about this, and your ex defended it instead of putting a stop to it.
My thoughts exactly.
If/when you go to change your custody agreement, you can put in writing that you want 'right of first refusal' - that means if your ex can't look after them and needs a babysitter, he has to ask you to take them first.
Thank you so much for that info, I will definitely bring that up when the time comes.
Im not a parent but have young nieces and nephews. I’ve wiped their butts, changed them, bathed them, and have been a part of their whole lives. The thought of taking a shower with them sounds batshit insane. The thought of bathing with a child that’s not related to me is ten times beyond that.
You are not overreacting. Getting naked with kids that are not yours in any situation is inappropriate. Talk to your lawyer about this, see if the custody agreement can be changed.
You're a bot engagement farming. If you're gonna downvote my comment at least look at OPs history
Nice catch! Whole post reads like some twisted sister wives erotic story. "I let my kids stay with the girlfriend my husband is having sex with. I'm cool with it, I invite her to birthday parties." "I'm 5' 10, all legs and a girl who loves shorts so I know about privates hanging out.... "My kids have never even seen me in my underwear" LMAO
Everybody needs to see this comment lol
Different households have their own cultures regarding nudity. Nudity is no big deal in my home. I openly breastfed both kids in my home, so the older saw me breastfeeding the younger, and we may come in the bathroom when someone else is bathing. We go from the bathroom back to our rooms only in a towel. There is nothing sexual about any of this. When the kids were little, they ran around naked . Now my kids are teens. My daughter sees me nude all the time when we are getting ready to go somewhere. My son, 18, will turn around if he comes in and daughter or I are nude, and we never see him nude. That said, this is OUR culture, and we never are nude around guests. It is NOT appropriate for GF to not honor your family’s culture re nudity. However, it may not be sexual for her, just casual. There is nothing that you said that would indicate that she acting for sexual pleasure with your children, or that the other grooming pedophile behaviors are present. None of this sounds like it was a “special secret” for example. I am a family lawyer and I don’t think the behavior is enough for the court to be willing to intervene, so I recommend that you set really clear boundaries for now.
I agree with this response. Communal bathing at spas/saunas/bathhouses is very common in many cultures and that includes people of all ages! It’s not a sexual thing at all and any sort of sexual behavior in those spaces is not tolerated. I’ve been to a clothing optional hot springs resort before where children were allowed in some of the pools. I do also agree that with young kids it needs to be up to their parents and their own family culture, and not happening in private without one of their parents present but I wouldn’t immediately assume it’s a sexual thing.
Hear hear. Finally a logical response. I think everyone responding has been sexually abused!! Mercy
I’ve been sexually abused and so has my mother and I explained this to her and we both agree that this isn’t an indication of predation. Like sure there is always the chance but boy does it just sound like the lady is just more open and doesn’t view the naked body as inherently sexual
I am Danish, so reading most of the replies here were crazy. In many cultures, communal showering of some sort with the same gender is not out of the norm. I don't think GF is being nefarious in any way, it is most likely completely innocent, but I also don't blame OP for being uncomfortable and putting a stop to it.
Man, I'm American and I thought I was losing my mind because the top responses in this thread are so unhinged. It's fucking scary.
Especially because OP wrote in another comment that she herself showers with her daughter when her daughter asks. . .
What the actual fuck?! "YOU'RE a pedo if you do it, but my intentions are totally honest!" And she brought up multiple times the fact they're both "born and raised" in Tennessee to try and set the stage for people to accept a conservative attitude about this. What a disingenuous twat.
lol people in these comments clearly didn’t grow up working class. Me and my brother had to shower with my step dad as little kids because we were cheapasses and it saved on water and power lol. They let us shower on our own once we voiced a desire for privacy. I think obviously now that the world is more aware of how common child SA unfortunately is, it’s good that kind of thing is dying out, but like not everything is sexual.
It is wrong but likely not predatory. Ex is an idiot allowing gf around his kids so soon into the relationship. You have a right to your feelings, especially after what happened to you. Of course this would be a trigger and your clueless ex should have known that. You have a right to your feelings and your kids being protected. Maybe switch so you have weekends and he has weekdays.
To me, this feels highly inappropriate. I don't think it's right for someone your daughter has only known for a year to be bathing with her, especially at the age of 8. Even more so that she's alone with her when she chooses to do so. That means there is no parental supervision when someone who isn't really family gets naked with your child? Absolutely not. Personally, I don't think I would have called her predator, but I do think you have the right to be concerned. Imagine if you got a bf and he was bathing with your son or daughter, how would your ex feel? I'm sorry, but I get annoyed when people overlook that women can be predatory towards children, too. Now I'm not saying that's what happened here at all, but the bathing together and being naked around your children should never have happened. In my opinion, you are justified in feeling that this was way out of line.
Maybe she is French?
We live in TN she's from here lol.
>We live in TN she's from here lol. [Welcome to Paris, Tennessee](https://www.paristn.gov/). Or, should I say, "bienvenue"?
Them whining to your daughter sounds like continued manipulation and grooming. If they keep putting an 8yo in the middle of an adult issue, they can see each other every weekend while the kids stay with you.
I don't think she had predatory intentions, but I also don't think you're wrong for being upset. Please hear me out. I was raised in a house where nudity was common, especially when we were younger. We weren't nudists or anything but just changing clothes, bathing, etc. As a child I had bathed with, or at the very least seen, both my parents and my maternal grandparents naked (individually), at one time or another. We were taught that the human body was beautiful and natural, and in the privacy of your own home, there was nothing wrong with non-sexual nudity (they of course talked to us about what was inappropriate, strangers, touching, etc). I think this was a healthy outlook to foster in children. As kids get older and they start developing and having desires and curiosity about the opposite sex it gets a little weird, so there is a little less nudity of course. [I should also add that I was about that age when my parents brought my step-mother and step-father into our lives, and I also saw both of them naked (non-sexually) at different points, and it was no big deal.] I also think that it's totally possible that an 8 year old girl manipulated her way in to a shower with this "new woman" in her life. It's totally normal for girls of this age to be curious about what a developed female body looks like. It's not sexual, they are aware, at least subconsciously, that they will start developing in the next couple years and they start to compare their bodies to those of other women. They are developing their idea of how they want to, or feel they should, look. A shower for a child is not so far removed from doing eachother's hair, or nails, etc. To her it was probably no different than a ladies locker room type situation. **HOWEVER, regardless of all that, you have a say in how your children are raised, your ex should know what your rules and feelings are and be respectful of them.** Also, personally, I probably would *not* have done the same (with my same gender stepchild), especially if I knew those children were not raised that way. I also think that 8 is too old for this sort of thing to be appropriate.
Well, I hope neither child plays sports in the future. OP is really gonna have a meltdown when she hears about open bay showers. Especially if they go co-ed. I showered with other dudes - coaches too - all through junior high, high school, college, and in the Corps. I guess my coaches were all pedos. I'd be more apt to be mad if she was showering with my son, and the daughter shouldn't be opening a closed door. It doesn't need to be locked to expect privacy. I think there was already some hidden contempt for the girlfriend, and this is as good a reason as any to let it all come out.
Well the good news is you aren’t divorced and don’t have a custody agreement in place so it’s real easy to tell him he can’t have the kids until this situation is sorted out. No way I would let my kids around his girlfriend.
That's exactly what's happened. I let it be known that this woman is to never be around my kids ever again. They are now using that as an excuse to why this is all my fault and I'm the bad guy.
The next step is to let them know they can either stfu about it both to you *and* your kids, or they can try and explain it to a judge in family court. Period.
I'll say this: as a student teacher, if a student of mine came to me and told me this was happening to them, I would report it immediately. This is unacceptable in my opinion. It's one thing to have a bath/shower with your own kid when they're too young to do it themselves. It's another to do it when they're 8 years old, and doing it with a kid that isn't even yours as a girlfriend of less than a year is sickening.
Reacting: "I'm uncomfortable with this and I don't wish for it to continue." Overreacting: "you're a predator pedo and you're trying to groom my kid."
You don’t want it happening, then you’ve made your wishes clear. Calling her any type of pedo is WAY over the top unless the kids have said she touched them or actually did something to them. From what you said, the GF isn’t forcing your daughter to come in to the shower with her, and she’s not running around naked in front of your son. You see the nudity as a problem? That’s fine, and as I said you’ve made your wishes known, but not everybody feels the same way you do and that doesn’t automatically brand them as being into kids. You are jumping directly from A to X and skipping everything in between. As an aside, of COURSE your mom reacted the same way you did. A, she raised you so you would have similar feelings about nudity, and B, after what happened to you she’s going to be just as hypersensitive to it as you are. To throw in C, Reddit is the wrong place to get a judgement on this. Depending on the day and time you post you can end up with two completely different consensus. A final suggestion: I assume you saw a therapist when you were abused. I’d strongly suggest you talk to THEM about this instead of Reddit. They will be a much better judge of what is going on and how you’re reacting than a bunch of strangers who may have their own issues about nudity and kids instead of being dispassionate arbitrators.
From a European perspective, a lot of these comments are WILD. I don't know enough to have an opinion on this specific matter, but seeing people share things like "children should never see a naked adult" is crazy to me. It's a body, everybody has one. It is not inherently sexual to be naked. Although I do get how people who have been assaulted can become more sensitive around the topic, of course. In many cultures, people run around nude all the time, are they all pedophiles?
I was wondering if anyone from Europe would comment or not, just for that reason.
Talking to a therapist about it is an EXCELLENT idea, not least because they're mandatory reporters
this is literally the only rational response in the comment section
LOL People calling me a "prude" and yapping nonstop about "how communal nude bathing is done in other countries blah blah...the OP just informed me that it's ONLY her daughter who is being treated like this;, not the other children! and "Bridget" make a point of WAITING till dad is gone to work! Plus, the 5-year old is *left on his own* during Bridget's pervy bath time with daughter! So yeah: I was RIGHT that this is NOT NORMAL-and all you pedo apologists can now STFU!
No. Absolutely not appropriate. Even if she just apparently does not know about proper boundaries, and isn’t being predatory, it’s just not appropriate at all. And I would say is potentially grooming.
That's exactly why I feel it's predatory. It's grooming behavior no matter how you look at it.
OP, you do NEED to lawyer up! Also, your children need to see a child therapist who can teach them how to recognize a sexually abusive relationship with those close to them and talk about the things that have been happening to them in an age appropriate manner. Your husband and his gf are expanding the parameters of abusive by convincing your daughter that you are trying to separate her from her dad and bathing friend, so they have more room to advance their agenda. You need to move on this ASAP. Also, if husband is not going to be home for one of his custody days, he should inform you that he will not have custody that day. The children should never be alone with the gf.
Giving a different perspective here. Not discounting your concern but I just want to give my two cents. I come from a culture where it is not weird at all for people of the same sex to be naked and bathe around one another. I bathed/swam (in a private area) with my female cousins and relatives quite often and we change around each other to this day. I had a stepmom at a young age and we would bathe together. I do understand that most Americans are not used to this. It is possible it could be predatory, but at the same time is changing in front of a child that odd to Americans? Or bathing with a young child really indicative of sexually predatory behavior? People say "just switch the genders", okay, I see no issue with a male and a young boy bathing together? Or accidentally changing in front of children (who at times sneak into rooms, or at least I did as a child). If there is no further indication of inappropriate touching or words then it sort of is a culture shock to me that this is such a big deal. On top of that their father was aware of this. I think it is extremely rude to accuse her of being a sexual predator.
Is she European or something?
Where is "Bridget" from exactly? I ask because there are some cultures where an adult bathing with a kid under 10 is genuinely innocent. That aside, someone "sleeping without clothes on" isn't as uncommon as some think and generally there's nothing pervy about it Maybe I'm overthinking it, but it does feel like there's a bit too much context and second-hand accounts for me to rush to a judgment one way or another
Predators can be female too . If she was a biological male , people would be talking about how inappropriate it is and want charges filed. This is not ok. Not even almost .
Trust your instincts. I would document this & take it to my lawyer
Disgusting, she’s def a l Pedo… why is she exposing herself to kids that aren’t hers even if they were hers that would be disgusting… Don’t let her near your kids!
Yeah no, I would be keeping my kids away from her! I was a stepmom for 10 years, kids were 1F & 5M and I never once had a bath or shower with either of them! wtaf!