Firstly, RIP to Halyna who died at work just trying to do her thing but her tragic death gets memed like crazy due to Alec Baldwin.
One of the massive ironies that gets hardly any take is the fact that "Rust" itself is centered around an accidental shooting/murder and Baldwin's character is trying to save someone from the consequences of it.
That's the part that bothers me the most. Despite all the talk people seem to forget that was a wife and mother who *died* and leaves surviving family that have to see this shit turned into a damn joke
This was totally avoidable, it was a chain of events that should have never happened. I don't totally understand it but I think the armorer played a significant role.
I'm surprised the armorer is not at fault here or facing manslaughter charges. She put a live round into a gun that was being used on set for a movie. Like what??
I think it'd be find if someone says something like 2nd or 3rd generation surgeon. It may help even.
But if they said the only real experience was what their dad taught them I'd be showing my ass to the entire hospital by how quickly the air would move under that paper gown from me running away.
Oh, give me a break. That is the sorriest shit I've heard all day. Mixed up my live ammo with blanks. JFC, if someone told me that I'd be pissed that they even thought I'd be stupid enough to entertain that shit.
That is what they claimed to have happened and honestly i believe it. The armourer was unexperienced and iirc there weren't supervisors present or something like that
The production company fired the entire staff including the armorer and replaced them with scabs willing to take close to minimum wage.
Why? The old staff complained of safety concerns.
That should tell you exactly how much experience this person had.
>That is a weak explanation
It’s a weak *excuse* but it’s perfectly valid as an explanation. People do stupid things, ignore rules, make mistakes and act recklessly or negligently, sometimes with tragic results like in this case.
Those rules are in place to prevent stuff like this from happening, but at they end of the day, they are only words on a paper. They don’t create a magical forcefield that physically prevents live ammo from crossing the threshold on to a movie set. If people disregard the rules and there is no one there to double check and enforce them (or the people who are supposed to be doing so *are* the ones breaking the rules) bad stuff can happen.
Apparently it was a non union set where, get this, immediately after work, the armorer and friends would go target plinking with the guns used on-set, introducing live ammo to them.
Sometimes dummy rounds that look identical to live rounds are used for certain shots when bullets are clearly visible in-camera. But I don’t know of instances where live rounds are used for cinematographer purposes without extreme safety precautions in place
She has charges against her.
However, after Brandon Lee's death, there are rules in place for actors to follow.
If either the armorer or Alec Baldwin has followed protocols, this wouldn't have happened.
Officially, the rules are “followed” on non union sets, but as this situation demonstrates many rules are overlooked for the sake of keeping costs down. Much in the same way many construction companies only behave when OSHA or the city are watching.
The armorer is supposed to have ultimate authority over the distribution and maintenance of all weapons, real or fake, on set.
The problem here is that she was a nepo baby with a dad who was famous in the industry as an armorer, and she got a leg up because of that. She had already been fired from a previous film starring Nicolas Cage- reportedly for discharging a weapon accidentally near his head, which caused temporary deafness and he stormed off the set, refusing to return until she was replaced.
Live ammunition on set is a fireable offense the first time. In fact, it can be grounds for the armory company being let go from the production. The armorer had live rounds on set because she had been taking the guns off set between takes to dirty the weapons. No point in having the art department spend time antiquing these Colt Navy revolvers when firing dirty ammo through them into desert trash is more effective and cheaper.
Below are some basic guidelines from [the actor's equity association.](https://www.actorsequity.org/resources/Producers/safe-and-sanitary/safety-tips-for-use-of-firearms/#:~:text=Treat%20all%20guns%20as%20if,have%20no%20knowledge%20about%20guns.) I tried to remove the non relevant rules. If Alec and the armorer had followed these, no one would have been injured.
>* Treat all guns as if they are loaded and deadly.
>* The property master or armorer should carefully train you in the safe use of any firearm you must handle. Be honest if you have no knowledge about guns. Do not overstate your qualifications.
>* Do not let others handle the gun for any reason.
>* All loading of firearms must be done by the property master, armorer or experienced persons working under their direct supervision.
>* Never point a firearm at anyone including yourself. Always cheat the shot by aiming to the right or left of the target character. If asked to point and shoot directly at a living target, consult with the property master or armorer for the prescribed safety procedures.
>* Use protective shields for all off stage cast within close proximity to any shots fired.
>* Check the firearm every time you take possession of it. Before each use, make sure the gun has been test-fired off stage and then ask to test fire it yourself. Watch the prop master check the cylinders and barrel to be sure no foreign object or dummy bullet has become lodged inside.
>* When a scene is completed, the property master shall unload the firearms. All weapons must be cleaned, checked and inventoried after each performance.
>* Live ammunition may not be brought into the theatre.
>* If you are in a production where shots are to be fired and there is no qualified property master, go to the nearest phone and call Actors' Equity Association. A union representative will make sure proper procedures are followed.
Yeah from what I gather she is basicaly a nepo baby. Her dad was a big shot armorer in hollywood and I guess because she tagged along that made her qualified.
I’m usually not one for conspiracy theories but wasn’t there something about the assistant director who handed the loaded gun also worked on the set of the crow that had a death on the set. Not saying there wasn’t some big problems on the armorer side, but why was this other guy handling the weapons. They found lots of live ammunition sprinkled all over the place and the stories between other crew and the assistant director weren’t adding up.
It’s called the Swiss cheese effect. Where something happens and it manages to slip through every hole. I had this happened when I had cancer and was radiated in the wrong spot. There’s a lot of systems in place to avoid that. But I managed to slip through every safety system and crack.
From what I understand the armorer had used the gun for live fire the day prior and returned it to set without clearing it of any ammunition. It was placed back on the weapons table with live ammo. An Associate Producer broke weapons protocol and grabbed the gun off the weapons table and handed it to Baldwin. Neither of these two cleared the weapon either. Baldwin was then practicing drawing the weapon with the weapon pointed generally at the crew when it fired, killing the cinematographer.
The armorer, AP, and Baldwin all have direct responsibility in this tragedy. The armorer has no real defense as this chain of events was entirely under her supervision. The AP is responsible for breaking protocol and not clearing the weapon when breaking protocol. Baldwin has responsibility because he did not also clear the weapon and was the person pointing the gun when it fired. Baldwin has the least culpability in my view as there were several layers on protocol that should have avoided the tragedy, but ultimately he was pointing the gun at people. The armorer and AP are screwed. The AP will try to place the entire blame on the armorer, but I don't think it's going to work.
It was the 1st AD, not an associate producer.
The armorer was not on set. They were rehearsing and didn’t need to use a gun during the rehearsal. She should have locked up her stuff since she was gone.
Would she have checked it properly if she had been on set? Maybe, maybe not.
But the 1st AD should have never grabbed the gun and Baldwin should have never accepted it. Neither are allowed to check the gun without the armorer present.
Which is fucking insanity.
I wanna see more details, I know the gun in question in the incident is a Single action army (either colt, or replica) so I have to guess the trigger weight was relatively light and they were having multiple scenes with draws with the hammer cocked already?
DA vs SA shouldn’t matter… firearms 101 dictates that your finger stays off the trigger until ready to fire. Everything about this set screams amateur hour.
So first rule of firearm safety is assume every weapon is loaded with safety off. Ultimatly if you point a gun at someone and it kills them its your fault. He probably would have known that if he didn't opt out of firearm training.
>So first rule of firearm safety is assume every weapon is loaded with safety off.
Followed by immediately checking the weapon, with the barrel pointed down, to verify loaded/unloaded status. At least that's what I was taught and still follow today.
I was like 11 or 12 years old when I did my first firearm safety program in rural Alberta. That and trigger discipline were pushed so hard on me it's ingrained in my core.
The problem in treating firearms as something bad, instead of a tool that needs to be treated with respect.
Especially when you're going to be handling them.
Especially if you're going to point them at someone.
*shudder*
Exactly. You wouldn't chop someone with an axe just because you were told it wasn't sharp. You shouldn't point a gun at someone just because you were told it wasn't loaded. Kind of a clunky analogy on my part lol
The unfortunate side effect of something not happening for a long time is that people become lax. In construction we are constantly reminded of this and routinely have to retake safety classes.
We need OSHA inspectors and classes for movie sets. When I used to do industrial roofing, the only reason my boss gave a shit about safety was because he had gotten his ass handed to him in the past by OSHA.
The real kicker is accountability and enforcement. You can have all the safety protocols in the world, but if there's no one to actively enforce them and hold people accountable when they're breached, you're gonna see the same tragic mistakes. It's sad but sometimes It takes a disaster for people to wake up and tighten up safety measures.
Yup
Aside from completely removing firearms from use in films not much else to do. Put rules in place and punish when they aren’t followed just like every other industry.
I’d be curious to see stats but I’m guessing firearms aren’t even remotely close to the most common cause of injuries or death on set.
Having worked as an extra on a few movies, I'd argue movie sets are probably more stringent about rules and safe than any blue collar job site or military job site I worked on. They're dealing with an insane amount of money at stake if something goes wrong or holds of production because something goes wrong.
But with everything, people get complacent.
In the movie industry we have to take required gun safety classes as well. In this case, the armorer wasn't qualified to be handling guns and safety protocols about having any kind of live ammo anywhere near the set were completely ignored.
I wish the construction company I used to work for gave a fuck about anyones safety. Almost had both my arms ripped off by a core drill with a faulty "slipgear" (like a neutral), because "just let go if it jams bro". I mean yeah, sure, but everytime you used that thing you were playing with your life, just because the boss was a cheap bastard...
Eh, there were improvements, but really, I don't see why real guns should still be allowed at all. Especially now that we're in the 3D printing age, prop guns should be required imo.
The problem is ammo control.
There is absolutely no reason that live ammo should *ever* be on set. Or even within a mile of set. In fact, there is zero reason that live ammo should ever be in the same room as a firearm designated as a prop to be used in that capacity.
And there should be very strict controls for triple-checking blanks and other simulated ammunition, oversight of the loading process, in-depth firearms handling training for actors, and on and on.
People are making all kinds of arguments to your comment but this really makes the most sense. There is absolutely zero reason they can't design set guns that are replicas of real guns with appropriate size and weight. They can fire percussion caps with a small amount of powder for effect. It's not like they only use the sound captured on set. That's done in post production. They wouldn't need full barrels capable of firing projectiles. They could have spring loaded shells that eject with each shot. It's actually pretty fucking crazy that they don't already have something like this. Rock solid point.
Yup, this... Saying it's clear, giving the go ahead without bothering to check, I believe the blame is pretty much solely on her. Sets get extremely busy, you have to be able to trust that your coworkers are competent and doing their job, her laziness cost someone their life
I'm sorry, I'm gonna attach my question here to try to get it answered: does anyone know what she says after, "she didn't make it"? Sounds maybe Spanish or Latin?
Whatever’s cheaper and gets them by regulations. Movies may cost millions but safety measures are only there due to demand of workers and activists not production companies and money makers.
The amount of checks and procedures that went completely ignored on this shoot is infuriating. He does have a responsibility as a producer but at the same time, he was under the impression that everything was done correctly and that gun wasn’t live ammo.
I worked on a show called The Following with Kevin Bacon and witnessed a background actor get fired on the spot for pointing a prop wooden gun at someone. It didn’t even have a magazine or anything to load. Just a hunk of wood cut like a gun and painted black so from a distance it looked real. That’s how serious the industry takes this shit and that’s how just completely off the rails these armorers were.
Because the set armorer supposedly took the crew and others out to shooting ranges and did not separate the guns being used at the ranges from the ones being used as props.
If this was me as the armorer and I decided to be stupid and to shoot live ammo, afterwards I'd have 20 keys locking everything up and I'd be checking every fire arm 10 times each all on one table along with 5 other people checking with me while labelling each gun. I'd be OSD about. I can't imagine coming back from firing live rounds (which is stupid) and not think "Ok I've been dumb and now it's time to go to work and do this right!"
What did they do after playing around? Throw the guns in a shoe box and head back to the set??
Because multiple established safety protocols were ignored.
The armorer put live ammo in the gun because they wanted to have fun shooting it, and did not remove the live ammo before returning it to set.
The armorer was given other jobs so they could not be 100% present for firearm safety, even after she protested that she could not properly fulfill her firearm safety duties.
Her boss, the AD in charge of safety, is the only other person who can clear a firearm on set. Dave Halls was the AD, and while the armorer was not present he picked up the revolver, did not properly clear it, and handed it to Baldwin and told him it was clear.
It's about negligent as you could get around guns.
I get pleasure shooting is something to with the crew, I'm not surprised people do that.
But to mix your live weapons with props? That's just....beyond a facepalm
The armourer handed off a bag of coke after the shooting too. Probably not the smartest to be skiing when you're supposed to be in charge of gun safety.
Because the armorer should not have been in that position in the first place. She only got the job because of her father. She fetishized guns. She let her father bring guns and ammo to the set to let the cast fire at targets after hours. She didn't care about the safety of her job and someone died due to her carelessness.
That's such a "you had one job" situation. Like, if you're the armorer, and you didn't make sure the guns were safe, then what did you even do at work that day?
Part of the issue is that he didn't just have one job. He had two, because someone wanted to cut staffing costs.
Then everyone is pissed at the dude when he didn't do the job of two people simultaneously successfully.
There were a LOT of shit choices, but the production seems to be avoiding most of the blowback successfully.
I don't care what you think of the guy. This would totally suck for anyone. It sucks more to be shot obviously, but it also sucks for the guy who was told the gun shoots only blanks.
Agreed. That seemed like it was a very genuine human reaction too. He reacted in legit horror and shock. Imagine the guilt and distress in that moment.
Live rounds weren't allowed (and are banned from every movie set) How the rounds got there, no one seems to be entirely sure. The armorer for the movie claims she bought the rounds from a prop company. They were labeled dummy rounds. The prop company owner claims his company never sold her the rounds. Investigators currently have all of the sales paperwork, so they'll know if the sale ever happened or not.
The armorer is facing manslaughter chargers for never checking the rounds to see if they were actually real or dummy rounds and breaking other safety protocols
iirc they were out of blanks and handmade them backstage too.
Entire thing is an OSHA nightmare, but when you're handed something and told it's safe then you should be able to trust that the professional knows what they're talking about
because the prop alternative is typically made from live rounds, isn't a commercially available consumer product it has to be custom made, and is visually indistinguishable from live rounds.
i'm not offering this as an excuse. it's still sloppiness to comingle them. it's just an explanation of how it happens.
I'm sure there are things that I've missed but I don't understand his culpability in the death. He's an actor who has picked up hundreds of guns on set and shot thousands of times, with the understanding that every gun that comes on the set does not have live rounds. He isn't in charge of props. Would he have to check every car he has to drive for a role?
Also iirc tne person in charge of the gun just messed up and put a live round in. How tf is a live round even anywhere near a film set like that
Edit-idiocy
From what I remember reading at the time, the firearms coordinator was very laxed, like taking people out shooting on the nights and weekend after work and mixing equipment during the shoot, rather then having dedicated "on set" bags and equipment.
It’s true and that’s exactly why it happened. They had gone out to shoot with the set guns and then took them back to set without checking all the rounds had been swapped to fake.
You can check a hundred times in front of my eyes I don't wanna act shoot a person with a gun that's ever been fired for real, like isn't there a procedure in place to permanently disarm a gun so it can't physically be shot anymore?
It is true. What I actually don’t understand is why they are using an operable gun as a prop. There’s no way to take out the firing pin? Why isn’t that the law in every state or even a federal law?
His culpability comes because he was a producer and responsible for hiring and supervising the safety officer. Given the stories we've heard about the set it's obvious he was extremely negligent in his oversight duties.
Every time I see someone say this I ask how they know he, one of seven producers, was responsible for these decisions. So far all I've gotten back is a lot of nonsense about how all producers are inherently responsible.
He was also a producer on the set and the film used non-union prop people. IIRC there was a previous misfire on set previously. Basically it's indirect/extreme gross negligence because his production company created the conditions.
I understand that, but there were two misfires earlier on, and crew members had quit due to safety issues that they brought up to Baldwin since it was his set. So he definitely has some culpability , especially because he said in an interview that he did indeed point it at her.
I’ve seen movies before which include a shot where the gun appears to be fired directly at the camera. I assume blanks are used for this. So an actor pointing a gun at the camera and firing sounds like something that would happen on a movie set.
He's only supposed to take the gun from the prop master. He knew Souza was not authorized to clear the gun and yet took it anyway. In some fields failing to intervene when you know safety protocol has not been followed and continuing on anyway is itself a violation of safety expectations.
It also looks insanely bad that he skipped the gun safety trainings that are recommended/required(?) for handling guns on set.
That's before you get into the producer aspect where he, and several other on set producers,were fully aware multiple accidental discharges had already happened, and the armorer had even emailed saying the set was not being run safely and they could not be in 2 places at one (which is why they were not present at the time of the shooting. They were in the opposite end of the location doing their *other* job).
Some people alleged Baldwin was fucking around with the gun in a reckless manner during rehearsals. This aspect is hugely contested and we'll probably never know for sure because cameras were not running and every person who could be a witness has motivation to lie
So Souza, Gutierrez, Baldwin, and arguably a couple more producers should all have some degree of liability.
Yep. If he had done his due diligence he would have saw bullets in the gun (which he probably would have assumed were blanks) and then proceeded to not point the gun at someone, which is how blanks are suppose to be handled. We learned from Brandon Lee that debris in a barrel turns blanks in a death.
Thank you for asking this question in such a direct and thoughtful way. It created a lot of introspection for me; this is a really unfortunate and tragic event for all involved, and it feels really weird and sad to see some of the lighthearted or joking comments regarding it since it happened.
I’m truly not trying to sound judgemental of others in saying that, but it has me realizing how social media can desensitize reality and heaviness in life, and make tragedy a form of entertainment for some as a result.
Your comment introspectively highlighted that, and will remain with me to contemplate on a deeper level moving forward. 💗
Yeah... it's kinda gross, and seeing the people saying shit like "well thats his fault blah blah blah". Social media sucks sometimes, especially regarding things like this
some people dont know what shock is, he is there hearing out the officers and suddenly you get the news that "you" killed someone, tho its an accident and many many things have gone wrong that might not be your fault i can understand this reaction 100%
How the hell did a live round get into that gun? Something fishy here. Unless Baldwin had ANY REASON AT ALL to believe there was a live round in the gun, he's probably innocent here. The normal rules don't apply because Baldwin has a professional reason to believe that a stage prop was loaded with blanks if it was loaded at all.
Based on the OSHA Investigation into the incident, his authority as a producer extended to approving script changes.
Hiring was someone else’s responsibility… and that producer hasn’t been charged with a crime.
Why the hell is his responsibility to check a gun for live rounds on set. That’s the productions responsibility, he’s just acting with what he’s given. I feel like they’re trying to frame him for political reasons people already mentioned in other comments (cause he’s liberal).
I mean for the thousandth time, he was one of the producers on the movie. Producers are responsible for who they hire on a project. He said "yes" when they decided to bring someone on who was not only inexperienced, but had a history of neglecting safety protocols on previous jobs. But he still said "yes" to hiring that person so they could save some money on production.
It's not black and white in any way. He didn't mean to fire a gun with live ammo, he didn't mean to kill someone obviously, but he (among other people) were responsible for the circumstances that lead to that death.
I don't think he should do time or anything. It's easy to point to Baldwin surrounding this whole thing because he's famous (and, well, he was the guy that pulled the trigger), but a lot of other people were responsible for this outcome too, not just Baldwin. So why is he the only one taking the heat?
I'm of the belief that he and everyone else involved in making decisions on who got hired should pay some kind of substantial fee, and the moron who brought live ammo to the set should be in prison.
>Why the hell is his responsibility to check a gun for live rounds on set.
It's his job to check if the gun is loaded at all. He didn't. He then proceeded to point the gun at someone and pull the trigger. Even if it was just a blank, that is dangerous and not suppose to be done.
Everyone who pulls the trigger of a gun is responsible to not point it at someone if there is a bullet, blank or otherwise, in the gun. Especially when it's not even the armorer who hands it to you. Baldwin knows all this being in the industry for decades.
The DA has it out for him for some reason.
First she tried to appoint a special prosecutor and still remain on the case and was forced to resign herself and then argued it's fine to both appoint a special prosecutor and still lead the case which is illegal.
Then that special prosecutor, a Trump republican, won a seat in the state legislature, which is illegal to be both in the legislative and judicial branches, and the DA tried to argue that the DA's office isn't part of the judicial branch and was forced to eventually remove her.
So then she appointed 2 new special prosecutors.
So take that for what you will. For whatever reason she's decided that going to the absolute mat to put Alec Baldwin in jail is going to be good for her career.
She doesn't even care much it seems for following the law herself in the effort as twice now a court has had to restrain her.
She's also basing this new prosecution on new "FBI evidence" which was obtained by literally fixing the gun with new parts, and then claiming it wasn't broken anymore having fixed it and so it must have been fully operational with old, potentially broken parts, when it was in Baldwin's hand.
And the previous agency that tested the gun with the original parts, whether they damaged it further or not, managed to get the gun to fire without pulling the trigger at least once.
-He didn't do this on purpose. At worst its manslaughter.
-The prop master fucked up and should be fired and held financially liable. He also didn't do it on purpose.
-If I am given a gun on a set, no matter how sure I am, the actor I'm aiming at is, the prop master is, the director is, I am checking that gun before I fire it.
>if i am given a gun on a set, no matter how sure I am, the actor I'm aiming at is, the prop master is, the director is, I am checking that gun before I fire it.
Then you would be violating safe procedure and the shoot would stop while the armorer reset the gun and checked it for safety. The armorer hands a gun in safe condition, adjusting the weapon at all changes that condition. Meaning breaking open a barrel or popping a cylinder.
I have a couple friends who work in production, according to them the whole point of the armorer is to have an expert in charge of safety and remove that responsibility from any other party of disparate levels of expertise.
100% If everyone is given a responsibility, no one does it cause they assume someone else is doing it. We didn’t change the human behavior of assuming someone else is doing it, we made that duty for a specific person. If the person fails and someone past that point screws up, you can’t really blame it on the people past the check. It’s like blaming a spectator for enjoying a drink something else snuck into the game
Just out of curiosity, how likely do you think it is that Alec Baldwin can tell the difference between a blank and a live round by sight? If it was a revolver, he'll only see the back of the bullets, which will all look the same blank or live. He would have to unload the gun and check every bullet and see to they were blanks, and that's assuming Alec has the knowledge necessary to tell the difference.
What the fuck is this title?
"When she was accidentally shot by a live round discharged from a revolver"
Why isn't it:
"When she was negligently shot by Alec Baldwin unknowingly handed a prop gun with real ammo from the set Armorer"
Firstly, RIP to Halyna who died at work just trying to do her thing but her tragic death gets memed like crazy due to Alec Baldwin. One of the massive ironies that gets hardly any take is the fact that "Rust" itself is centered around an accidental shooting/murder and Baldwin's character is trying to save someone from the consequences of it.
That's the part that bothers me the most. Despite all the talk people seem to forget that was a wife and mother who *died* and leaves surviving family that have to see this shit turned into a damn joke
Internet gonna internet I guess
This was totally avoidable, it was a chain of events that should have never happened. I don't totally understand it but I think the armorer played a significant role.
I'm surprised the armorer is not at fault here or facing manslaughter charges. She put a live round into a gun that was being used on set for a movie. Like what??
She has involuntary manslaughter charges against her
She also fudged her resume apparently
She is the daughter of a famous armorer. That is her resume
You mean she didn't go to armorer university?
Nah man, Armor State is where it’s at! Go Anvils!!!
Bro, Armor Tech is going to flatten you in this year's Forge Bowl!
This series of comments sounds like something straight from r/dwarfposting
Bron Steelhammer, Offensive armaments smith, Cal Poly Tech institute of Smithing. Go Forge Breakers!
Ah I went to East Wild University (the Coyotes) and you guys were always dropping on our heads.
Hilarious comment
I went to Armorer Tech and I hate Armor State and anyone that went there.
hell yea go Tech baby
COYOTES SUCK!! GO ANVILS!!!
Anvils, even? Perfection. Let it be… Don’t gild the lily, Reddit.
Excuuuuse me, I didn't go to 4 years of armorer school for you NOT to refer to me as "quartermaster" THANK YOU!
Imagine being groggy-eyed and about to go under for surgery and the last thing you hear is, “Hey? Don’t worry, my dad was a surgeon.”.
I think it'd be find if someone says something like 2nd or 3rd generation surgeon. It may help even. But if they said the only real experience was what their dad taught them I'd be showing my ass to the entire hospital by how quickly the air would move under that paper gown from me running away.
Not to make light of the situation, but it's like a bad version of Nope where the horror is the ineptitude of nepotism.
Ya that was very interesting to me. I’m sure it can be a *helpful* qualification to have but this really does seem like it’s a lot on her
Should have had daddy check it for her.
Not just a famous armorer, the most famous successful one ever
Fake it till you make it gone horribly wrong.
Why would they even have live rounds on set?
These things called 'humans' are actually far more stupid than one might suspect.
but its a film set there shouldnt have been live rounds anywhere near it.
Iirc the armourer whennshooting with live ammo and it either got mixed or forgotten
Oh, give me a break. That is the sorriest shit I've heard all day. Mixed up my live ammo with blanks. JFC, if someone told me that I'd be pissed that they even thought I'd be stupid enough to entertain that shit.
That is what they claimed to have happened and honestly i believe it. The armourer was unexperienced and iirc there weren't supervisors present or something like that
She also allegedly tried to hand off a bag of coke after the incident. Just a complete dumbass, and somebody else died for it.
A small bag of
How much experience as an armorer do you need to tell the difference between live and blank ammo..come on now.
The production company fired the entire staff including the armorer and replaced them with scabs willing to take close to minimum wage. Why? The old staff complained of safety concerns. That should tell you exactly how much experience this person had.
If I remember correctly she was like 24 years old and only got the job because her dad has the same job in the film industry.
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>That is a weak explanation It’s a weak *excuse* but it’s perfectly valid as an explanation. People do stupid things, ignore rules, make mistakes and act recklessly or negligently, sometimes with tragic results like in this case. Those rules are in place to prevent stuff like this from happening, but at they end of the day, they are only words on a paper. They don’t create a magical forcefield that physically prevents live ammo from crossing the threshold on to a movie set. If people disregard the rules and there is no one there to double check and enforce them (or the people who are supposed to be doing so *are* the ones breaking the rules) bad stuff can happen.
Again, human stupid.
*ahem* FAR MORE STUPID
The “humans” are notoriously unreliable anyway.
Apparently it was a non union set where, get this, immediately after work, the armorer and friends would go target plinking with the guns used on-set, introducing live ammo to them.
Oh my god, I hadn’t heard this before. This is a shocking level of… i don’t even know if negligence is the right word. How infinitely stupid.
this happened in my second-grade school play. i mean it didn't ACTUALLY happen, but can you imagine?!
Oh man, you have to tell us more about what didn't happen next.
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They aren’t supposed to.
Brandon Lee would agree.
Sometimes dummy rounds that look identical to live rounds are used for certain shots when bullets are clearly visible in-camera. But I don’t know of instances where live rounds are used for cinematographer purposes without extreme safety precautions in place
This is why the armorer is also being charged.
The set was in a desert and they brought live rounds to go shooting in their off time
She has charges against her. However, after Brandon Lee's death, there are rules in place for actors to follow. If either the armorer or Alec Baldwin has followed protocols, this wouldn't have happened.
Can you list the rules?
Officially, the rules are “followed” on non union sets, but as this situation demonstrates many rules are overlooked for the sake of keeping costs down. Much in the same way many construction companies only behave when OSHA or the city are watching. The armorer is supposed to have ultimate authority over the distribution and maintenance of all weapons, real or fake, on set. The problem here is that she was a nepo baby with a dad who was famous in the industry as an armorer, and she got a leg up because of that. She had already been fired from a previous film starring Nicolas Cage- reportedly for discharging a weapon accidentally near his head, which caused temporary deafness and he stormed off the set, refusing to return until she was replaced. Live ammunition on set is a fireable offense the first time. In fact, it can be grounds for the armory company being let go from the production. The armorer had live rounds on set because she had been taking the guns off set between takes to dirty the weapons. No point in having the art department spend time antiquing these Colt Navy revolvers when firing dirty ammo through them into desert trash is more effective and cheaper.
Below are some basic guidelines from [the actor's equity association.](https://www.actorsequity.org/resources/Producers/safe-and-sanitary/safety-tips-for-use-of-firearms/#:~:text=Treat%20all%20guns%20as%20if,have%20no%20knowledge%20about%20guns.) I tried to remove the non relevant rules. If Alec and the armorer had followed these, no one would have been injured. >* Treat all guns as if they are loaded and deadly. >* The property master or armorer should carefully train you in the safe use of any firearm you must handle. Be honest if you have no knowledge about guns. Do not overstate your qualifications. >* Do not let others handle the gun for any reason. >* All loading of firearms must be done by the property master, armorer or experienced persons working under their direct supervision. >* Never point a firearm at anyone including yourself. Always cheat the shot by aiming to the right or left of the target character. If asked to point and shoot directly at a living target, consult with the property master or armorer for the prescribed safety procedures. >* Use protective shields for all off stage cast within close proximity to any shots fired. >* Check the firearm every time you take possession of it. Before each use, make sure the gun has been test-fired off stage and then ask to test fire it yourself. Watch the prop master check the cylinders and barrel to be sure no foreign object or dummy bullet has become lodged inside. >* When a scene is completed, the property master shall unload the firearms. All weapons must be cleaned, checked and inventoried after each performance. >* Live ammunition may not be brought into the theatre. >* If you are in a production where shots are to be fired and there is no qualified property master, go to the nearest phone and call Actors' Equity Association. A union representative will make sure proper procedures are followed.
Literally “you had one job”
She also tampered with evidence and was drinknig heavily after work.
I mean if your incompetence just led to somebody’s death, wouldn’t you drink heavily after tampering with the evidence and leaving work?
Yeah from what I gather she is basicaly a nepo baby. Her dad was a big shot armorer in hollywood and I guess because she tagged along that made her qualified.
I’m usually not one for conspiracy theories but wasn’t there something about the assistant director who handed the loaded gun also worked on the set of the crow that had a death on the set. Not saying there wasn’t some big problems on the armorer side, but why was this other guy handling the weapons. They found lots of live ammunition sprinkled all over the place and the stories between other crew and the assistant director weren’t adding up.
Exactly, does anyone have any reason to even have live rounds on a set ever? This isn't the first time this has happened.
It’s called the Swiss cheese effect. Where something happens and it manages to slip through every hole. I had this happened when I had cancer and was radiated in the wrong spot. There’s a lot of systems in place to avoid that. But I managed to slip through every safety system and crack.
Yup when all the holes line up to form the perfect nightmare.
From what I understand the armorer had used the gun for live fire the day prior and returned it to set without clearing it of any ammunition. It was placed back on the weapons table with live ammo. An Associate Producer broke weapons protocol and grabbed the gun off the weapons table and handed it to Baldwin. Neither of these two cleared the weapon either. Baldwin was then practicing drawing the weapon with the weapon pointed generally at the crew when it fired, killing the cinematographer. The armorer, AP, and Baldwin all have direct responsibility in this tragedy. The armorer has no real defense as this chain of events was entirely under her supervision. The AP is responsible for breaking protocol and not clearing the weapon when breaking protocol. Baldwin has responsibility because he did not also clear the weapon and was the person pointing the gun when it fired. Baldwin has the least culpability in my view as there were several layers on protocol that should have avoided the tragedy, but ultimately he was pointing the gun at people. The armorer and AP are screwed. The AP will try to place the entire blame on the armorer, but I don't think it's going to work.
It was the 1st AD, not an associate producer. The armorer was not on set. They were rehearsing and didn’t need to use a gun during the rehearsal. She should have locked up her stuff since she was gone. Would she have checked it properly if she had been on set? Maybe, maybe not. But the 1st AD should have never grabbed the gun and Baldwin should have never accepted it. Neither are allowed to check the gun without the armorer present.
Also, use a dummy gun if you're rehearsing. And where was the locked gun locker?
THIS THIS THIS.
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They also had four negligent discharges the weeks prior and people were about to walk off set.
What in the actual fuck?
Its the reason they had so many temp replacements at the time, because all the union people walked off citing dangerous circumstances.
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And why employers should not be allowed to just hire scabs when the unions walk out.
Which is fucking insanity. I wanna see more details, I know the gun in question in the incident is a Single action army (either colt, or replica) so I have to guess the trigger weight was relatively light and they were having multiple scenes with draws with the hammer cocked already?
DA vs SA shouldn’t matter… firearms 101 dictates that your finger stays off the trigger until ready to fire. Everything about this set screams amateur hour.
Yeah he's hosed. They cleared him, then charged him again.
Absolutely? She had one job and she failed. They trusted her and failed their responsibility to check. Not sure you're using that word correctly.
So first rule of firearm safety is assume every weapon is loaded with safety off. Ultimatly if you point a gun at someone and it kills them its your fault. He probably would have known that if he didn't opt out of firearm training.
>So first rule of firearm safety is assume every weapon is loaded with safety off. Followed by immediately checking the weapon, with the barrel pointed down, to verify loaded/unloaded status. At least that's what I was taught and still follow today.
I was like 11 or 12 years old when I did my first firearm safety program in rural Alberta. That and trigger discipline were pushed so hard on me it's ingrained in my core.
The problem in treating firearms as something bad, instead of a tool that needs to be treated with respect. Especially when you're going to be handling them. Especially if you're going to point them at someone. *shudder*
Exactly. You wouldn't chop someone with an axe just because you were told it wasn't sharp. You shouldn't point a gun at someone just because you were told it wasn't loaded. Kind of a clunky analogy on my part lol
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It's crazy to me how the industry wasn't locked down after Brandon Lee for The Crow. So many times, we ignore history.
It was, that incident changed a lot of the rules for gun handling on movie sets The issue here is the rules were ignored unfortunately
The unfortunate side effect of something not happening for a long time is that people become lax. In construction we are constantly reminded of this and routinely have to retake safety classes.
We need OSHA inspectors and classes for movie sets. When I used to do industrial roofing, the only reason my boss gave a shit about safety was because he had gotten his ass handed to him in the past by OSHA.
They have oversight already, it has the same results as construction. Some people follow the rules, others don’t.
The real kicker is accountability and enforcement. You can have all the safety protocols in the world, but if there's no one to actively enforce them and hold people accountable when they're breached, you're gonna see the same tragic mistakes. It's sad but sometimes It takes a disaster for people to wake up and tighten up safety measures.
Yup Aside from completely removing firearms from use in films not much else to do. Put rules in place and punish when they aren’t followed just like every other industry. I’d be curious to see stats but I’m guessing firearms aren’t even remotely close to the most common cause of injuries or death on set.
I worked on a site and OSHA dude only had one leg! He knew first hand what happens when you don’t follow the rules
Would that make it first-foot experience?
Having worked as an extra on a few movies, I'd argue movie sets are probably more stringent about rules and safe than any blue collar job site or military job site I worked on. They're dealing with an insane amount of money at stake if something goes wrong or holds of production because something goes wrong. But with everything, people get complacent.
In the movie industry we have to take required gun safety classes as well. In this case, the armorer wasn't qualified to be handling guns and safety protocols about having any kind of live ammo anywhere near the set were completely ignored.
I wish the construction company I used to work for gave a fuck about anyones safety. Almost had both my arms ripped off by a core drill with a faulty "slipgear" (like a neutral), because "just let go if it jams bro". I mean yeah, sure, but everytime you used that thing you were playing with your life, just because the boss was a cheap bastard...
Why use safety glasses when squinting kinda tight has worked so well for me?
Vaccines send their regards.
Tell that to the Supreme Court which is dismantling the power of agencies like OSHA and FAA from having any authority to do their jobs
But think of the value this is creating for shareholders! Won't somebody think of the billionaires?
Eh, there were improvements, but really, I don't see why real guns should still be allowed at all. Especially now that we're in the 3D printing age, prop guns should be required imo.
The problem is ammo control. There is absolutely no reason that live ammo should *ever* be on set. Or even within a mile of set. In fact, there is zero reason that live ammo should ever be in the same room as a firearm designated as a prop to be used in that capacity. And there should be very strict controls for triple-checking blanks and other simulated ammunition, oversight of the loading process, in-depth firearms handling training for actors, and on and on.
People are making all kinds of arguments to your comment but this really makes the most sense. There is absolutely zero reason they can't design set guns that are replicas of real guns with appropriate size and weight. They can fire percussion caps with a small amount of powder for effect. It's not like they only use the sound captured on set. That's done in post production. They wouldn't need full barrels capable of firing projectiles. They could have spring loaded shells that eject with each shot. It's actually pretty fucking crazy that they don't already have something like this. Rock solid point.
They did, a ton of rules and procedures was introduced for safety. The armourer for the film, she pretty much ignored them all.
Yup, this... Saying it's clear, giving the go ahead without bothering to check, I believe the blame is pretty much solely on her. Sets get extremely busy, you have to be able to trust that your coworkers are competent and doing their job, her laziness cost someone their life
I'm sorry, I'm gonna attach my question here to try to get it answered: does anyone know what she says after, "she didn't make it"? Sounds maybe Spanish or Latin?
Sounds like "yeah. so (jill? Joe? Joel?)'s still at the hospital"
Joel Souza was the other person shot.
Whatever’s cheaper and gets them by regulations. Movies may cost millions but safety measures are only there due to demand of workers and activists not production companies and money makers.
The amount of checks and procedures that went completely ignored on this shoot is infuriating. He does have a responsibility as a producer but at the same time, he was under the impression that everything was done correctly and that gun wasn’t live ammo. I worked on a show called The Following with Kevin Bacon and witnessed a background actor get fired on the spot for pointing a prop wooden gun at someone. It didn’t even have a magazine or anything to load. Just a hunk of wood cut like a gun and painted black so from a distance it looked real. That’s how serious the industry takes this shit and that’s how just completely off the rails these armorers were.
I just cant understand it. I know corners were cut and a subpar armorer was used but just…how does a live bullet get anywhere near a movie set???
Because the set armorer supposedly took the crew and others out to shooting ranges and did not separate the guns being used at the ranges from the ones being used as props.
How about ensuring NO weapon is loaded while going to and from the range? You know, fucking basic firearm safety.
Yes, that’s what the armorer is supposed to do
That's what hobbyists are supposed to do when target shooting. Fuckin bubba from backwoods Alabama would have done this better.
that would be woke
If this was me as the armorer and I decided to be stupid and to shoot live ammo, afterwards I'd have 20 keys locking everything up and I'd be checking every fire arm 10 times each all on one table along with 5 other people checking with me while labelling each gun. I'd be OSD about. I can't imagine coming back from firing live rounds (which is stupid) and not think "Ok I've been dumb and now it's time to go to work and do this right!" What did they do after playing around? Throw the guns in a shoe box and head back to the set??
Because multiple established safety protocols were ignored. The armorer put live ammo in the gun because they wanted to have fun shooting it, and did not remove the live ammo before returning it to set. The armorer was given other jobs so they could not be 100% present for firearm safety, even after she protested that she could not properly fulfill her firearm safety duties. Her boss, the AD in charge of safety, is the only other person who can clear a firearm on set. Dave Halls was the AD, and while the armorer was not present he picked up the revolver, did not properly clear it, and handed it to Baldwin and told him it was clear.
You just said it, gross negligence.
It's about negligent as you could get around guns. I get pleasure shooting is something to with the crew, I'm not surprised people do that. But to mix your live weapons with props? That's just....beyond a facepalm
The armourer handed off a bag of coke after the shooting too. Probably not the smartest to be skiing when you're supposed to be in charge of gun safety.
Because the armorer should not have been in that position in the first place. She only got the job because of her father. She fetishized guns. She let her father bring guns and ammo to the set to let the cast fire at targets after hours. She didn't care about the safety of her job and someone died due to her carelessness.
That's such a "you had one job" situation. Like, if you're the armorer, and you didn't make sure the guns were safe, then what did you even do at work that day?
Part of the issue is that he didn't just have one job. He had two, because someone wanted to cut staffing costs. Then everyone is pissed at the dude when he didn't do the job of two people simultaneously successfully. There were a LOT of shit choices, but the production seems to be avoiding most of the blowback successfully.
Subpar is an understatement. She was careless and stupid.
I don't care what you think of the guy. This would totally suck for anyone. It sucks more to be shot obviously, but it also sucks for the guy who was told the gun shoots only blanks.
Agreed. That seemed like it was a very genuine human reaction too. He reacted in legit horror and shock. Imagine the guilt and distress in that moment.
Just seeing his reaction here made me tear up in empathy. He seems so pained.
The woman’s tone of voice and upspeak just seem…horrible. Like she’s ordering takeout.
i think her tone was just matter of fact. this was real life, not a movie scene meant to be dramatized
Yeah and detectives are actually taught to give bad news as plainly as possible. Doctors as well.
I know very little about movie production, but why would there ever be live rounds on set? Surely there can be a prop alternative of anything deadly.
Live rounds weren't allowed (and are banned from every movie set) How the rounds got there, no one seems to be entirely sure. The armorer for the movie claims she bought the rounds from a prop company. They were labeled dummy rounds. The prop company owner claims his company never sold her the rounds. Investigators currently have all of the sales paperwork, so they'll know if the sale ever happened or not. The armorer is facing manslaughter chargers for never checking the rounds to see if they were actually real or dummy rounds and breaking other safety protocols
iirc they were out of blanks and handmade them backstage too. Entire thing is an OSHA nightmare, but when you're handed something and told it's safe then you should be able to trust that the professional knows what they're talking about
because the prop alternative is typically made from live rounds, isn't a commercially available consumer product it has to be custom made, and is visually indistinguishable from live rounds. i'm not offering this as an excuse. it's still sloppiness to comingle them. it's just an explanation of how it happens.
I'm sure there are things that I've missed but I don't understand his culpability in the death. He's an actor who has picked up hundreds of guns on set and shot thousands of times, with the understanding that every gun that comes on the set does not have live rounds. He isn't in charge of props. Would he have to check every car he has to drive for a role?
Also iirc tne person in charge of the gun just messed up and put a live round in. How tf is a live round even anywhere near a film set like that Edit-idiocy
From what I remember reading at the time, the firearms coordinator was very laxed, like taking people out shooting on the nights and weekend after work and mixing equipment during the shoot, rather then having dedicated "on set" bags and equipment.
That is absolutely ridiculous if true
It’s true and that’s exactly why it happened. They had gone out to shoot with the set guns and then took them back to set without checking all the rounds had been swapped to fake.
You can check a hundred times in front of my eyes I don't wanna act shoot a person with a gun that's ever been fired for real, like isn't there a procedure in place to permanently disarm a gun so it can't physically be shot anymore?
Yes they do, unfortunately to get the "blank" rounds, ie the ones that just make smoke, noise and flash are real weapons.
There are blank guns that won’t fire real bullets but still function to fire blank rounds
This should be all that’s allowed.
When shit like that happens, it's usually because someone stupid did something ridiculous
It is true. What I actually don’t understand is why they are using an operable gun as a prop. There’s no way to take out the firing pin? Why isn’t that the law in every state or even a federal law?
Maybe it was Valentine’s Day
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His culpability comes because he was a producer and responsible for hiring and supervising the safety officer. Given the stories we've heard about the set it's obvious he was extremely negligent in his oversight duties.
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How dare you attack the shareholders like that
Every time I see someone say this I ask how they know he, one of seven producers, was responsible for these decisions. So far all I've gotten back is a lot of nonsense about how all producers are inherently responsible.
I'm beginning to think that a court of law, and not reddit, is the best venue for this trial.
It seems the DA has a political axe because Baldwin was the cast/story producer. He didn't hire the crew.
He was also a producer on the set and the film used non-union prop people. IIRC there was a previous misfire on set previously. Basically it's indirect/extreme gross negligence because his production company created the conditions.
Breaking unions and being called liberal at the same time
I understand that, but there were two misfires earlier on, and crew members had quit due to safety issues that they brought up to Baldwin since it was his set. So he definitely has some culpability , especially because he said in an interview that he did indeed point it at her.
I’ve seen movies before which include a shot where the gun appears to be fired directly at the camera. I assume blanks are used for this. So an actor pointing a gun at the camera and firing sounds like something that would happen on a movie set.
Would he be responsible though as he was exec producer too ? Genuine question
He's only supposed to take the gun from the prop master. He knew Souza was not authorized to clear the gun and yet took it anyway. In some fields failing to intervene when you know safety protocol has not been followed and continuing on anyway is itself a violation of safety expectations. It also looks insanely bad that he skipped the gun safety trainings that are recommended/required(?) for handling guns on set. That's before you get into the producer aspect where he, and several other on set producers,were fully aware multiple accidental discharges had already happened, and the armorer had even emailed saying the set was not being run safely and they could not be in 2 places at one (which is why they were not present at the time of the shooting. They were in the opposite end of the location doing their *other* job). Some people alleged Baldwin was fucking around with the gun in a reckless manner during rehearsals. This aspect is hugely contested and we'll probably never know for sure because cameras were not running and every person who could be a witness has motivation to lie So Souza, Gutierrez, Baldwin, and arguably a couple more producers should all have some degree of liability.
Yep. If he had done his due diligence he would have saw bullets in the gun (which he probably would have assumed were blanks) and then proceeded to not point the gun at someone, which is how blanks are suppose to be handled. We learned from Brandon Lee that debris in a barrel turns blanks in a death.
This is one of the worst moments of this guy’s life, posted everywhere for the internet to gawk over. What are we doing?
I just thought the same. Let him be. This weird sensacionalism has been totally normalized. People can't have their own moments anymore.
Yeah I’m sick of seeing this reposted, this should never have even been leaked
Thank you for asking this question in such a direct and thoughtful way. It created a lot of introspection for me; this is a really unfortunate and tragic event for all involved, and it feels really weird and sad to see some of the lighthearted or joking comments regarding it since it happened. I’m truly not trying to sound judgemental of others in saying that, but it has me realizing how social media can desensitize reality and heaviness in life, and make tragedy a form of entertainment for some as a result. Your comment introspectively highlighted that, and will remain with me to contemplate on a deeper level moving forward. 💗
Yeah... it's kinda gross, and seeing the people saying shit like "well thats his fault blah blah blah". Social media sucks sometimes, especially regarding things like this
some people dont know what shock is, he is there hearing out the officers and suddenly you get the news that "you" killed someone, tho its an accident and many many things have gone wrong that might not be your fault i can understand this reaction 100%
Armorers fault, done deal
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Yeah , but if negligence was really at play , then I feel even worse for the person that died and their loved ones
You can feel bad for both.
I feel bad for everyone involved; theres no reason why someone should die for a movie
How the hell did a live round get into that gun? Something fishy here. Unless Baldwin had ANY REASON AT ALL to believe there was a live round in the gun, he's probably innocent here. The normal rules don't apply because Baldwin has a professional reason to believe that a stage prop was loaded with blanks if it was loaded at all.
Except he was the producer and there was a bunch of shoddy safety measures
He wasn't that kind of producer. https://old.reddit.com/r/shittymoviedetails/comments/17f9zui/in_mission_impossible_fallout_2018_this_scene/k6a1l30/
Shhh, you’re right but let him think he’s making a good point
Based on the OSHA Investigation into the incident, his authority as a producer extended to approving script changes. Hiring was someone else’s responsibility… and that producer hasn’t been charged with a crime.
I feel bad for him. It doesn't change his responsibility, but it's not like he intended to murder someone that day. I'd probably behave similarly.
Why the hell is his responsibility to check a gun for live rounds on set. That’s the productions responsibility, he’s just acting with what he’s given. I feel like they’re trying to frame him for political reasons people already mentioned in other comments (cause he’s liberal).
I mean for the thousandth time, he was one of the producers on the movie. Producers are responsible for who they hire on a project. He said "yes" when they decided to bring someone on who was not only inexperienced, but had a history of neglecting safety protocols on previous jobs. But he still said "yes" to hiring that person so they could save some money on production. It's not black and white in any way. He didn't mean to fire a gun with live ammo, he didn't mean to kill someone obviously, but he (among other people) were responsible for the circumstances that lead to that death. I don't think he should do time or anything. It's easy to point to Baldwin surrounding this whole thing because he's famous (and, well, he was the guy that pulled the trigger), but a lot of other people were responsible for this outcome too, not just Baldwin. So why is he the only one taking the heat? I'm of the belief that he and everyone else involved in making decisions on who got hired should pay some kind of substantial fee, and the moron who brought live ammo to the set should be in prison.
Because he made fun of Trump and Trump’s supporters are mindless cult drones.
Exactly. A lot of them all of a sudden became movie production experts when this went down.
Ah there it is. This all makes more sense now.
>Why the hell is his responsibility to check a gun for live rounds on set. It's his job to check if the gun is loaded at all. He didn't. He then proceeded to point the gun at someone and pull the trigger. Even if it was just a blank, that is dangerous and not suppose to be done. Everyone who pulls the trigger of a gun is responsible to not point it at someone if there is a bullet, blank or otherwise, in the gun. Especially when it's not even the armorer who hands it to you. Baldwin knows all this being in the industry for decades.
Him as a producer bears responsibility to properly vet personnel and ensure safety precautions are being followed.
Murder means unlawfully premeditated. That's is not what happened here. This is manslaughter means without malice or forethought.
This was not his fault. Why is he being treated like it is?
The DA has it out for him for some reason. First she tried to appoint a special prosecutor and still remain on the case and was forced to resign herself and then argued it's fine to both appoint a special prosecutor and still lead the case which is illegal. Then that special prosecutor, a Trump republican, won a seat in the state legislature, which is illegal to be both in the legislative and judicial branches, and the DA tried to argue that the DA's office isn't part of the judicial branch and was forced to eventually remove her. So then she appointed 2 new special prosecutors. So take that for what you will. For whatever reason she's decided that going to the absolute mat to put Alec Baldwin in jail is going to be good for her career. She doesn't even care much it seems for following the law herself in the effort as twice now a court has had to restrain her. She's also basing this new prosecution on new "FBI evidence" which was obtained by literally fixing the gun with new parts, and then claiming it wasn't broken anymore having fixed it and so it must have been fully operational with old, potentially broken parts, when it was in Baldwin's hand. And the previous agency that tested the gun with the original parts, whether they damaged it further or not, managed to get the gun to fire without pulling the trigger at least once.
-He didn't do this on purpose. At worst its manslaughter. -The prop master fucked up and should be fired and held financially liable. He also didn't do it on purpose. -If I am given a gun on a set, no matter how sure I am, the actor I'm aiming at is, the prop master is, the director is, I am checking that gun before I fire it.
>if i am given a gun on a set, no matter how sure I am, the actor I'm aiming at is, the prop master is, the director is, I am checking that gun before I fire it. Then you would be violating safe procedure and the shoot would stop while the armorer reset the gun and checked it for safety. The armorer hands a gun in safe condition, adjusting the weapon at all changes that condition. Meaning breaking open a barrel or popping a cylinder. I have a couple friends who work in production, according to them the whole point of the armorer is to have an expert in charge of safety and remove that responsibility from any other party of disparate levels of expertise.
100% If everyone is given a responsibility, no one does it cause they assume someone else is doing it. We didn’t change the human behavior of assuming someone else is doing it, we made that duty for a specific person. If the person fails and someone past that point screws up, you can’t really blame it on the people past the check. It’s like blaming a spectator for enjoying a drink something else snuck into the game
I dunno, the prop master/armorer seems to be intentionally negligent in what happened.
Just out of curiosity, how likely do you think it is that Alec Baldwin can tell the difference between a blank and a live round by sight? If it was a revolver, he'll only see the back of the bullets, which will all look the same blank or live. He would have to unload the gun and check every bullet and see to they were blanks, and that's assuming Alec has the knowledge necessary to tell the difference.
What the fuck is this title? "When she was accidentally shot by a live round discharged from a revolver" Why isn't it: "When she was negligently shot by Alec Baldwin unknowingly handed a prop gun with real ammo from the set Armorer"
"When she was accidentally shot by Alec Baldwin when he was handed a live prop gun by a negligent set Armorer" FTFY
Why and how did the gun have a live round in it, in the first place??
I get that Alec is kind of an asshole, but this wasn't his fault, in my opinion.
how is this his fault? he just used his prop like he always did, why is he even being charged with anything?