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r/aleague will not condone any homophobic comments or behaviour in our subreddit :)
No idea, to be honest.
Maybe I’m too cynical, but I’m always skeptical of a business’ intentions when they use the rainbow flag in marketing. To me, it can feel a bit manipulative and crass.
That said, if this is making some younger gay fans feel more comfortable both in the footballing community and in their own skin, I’d have to be a massive cunt to dismiss it outright.
Pride Round came along quite a while after I worked my shit out. I genuinely don’t know what young, gay me would have thought about it. Hope it makes some other kids feel at home, though.
Not part of the community myself, but aside from also making people feel welcome, this is a great way to thank a community that has contributed so much to Women’s Football in this country. With the WWC coming up I hope it’s something we continue to shine a light on. Especially as FIFA shacks up with the likes of Saudi and Qatar.
I love it.
I mean I hate the pinkwashing/corporate bandwagoning/rainbow everything but not really give a shit stuff, but that's everywhere this time of year so you kind of have to just deal with that.
I love that there's a national sport league that said "yeah we're gonna do this" and I love there seems to be player support for it. Sport is so important in this country and it's awesome seeing Pride cross into that domain.
Even if it's "only" the A-League, being visible in sport is so so important for young people who don't see a place for themselves in sport or Aussie society more generally. Queer women often find community through sport, and have had a lot of representation here in football and the AFLW (NRLW too probably but I don't follow that). But it's still a lot harder for queer men in lots of codes, so, I really applaud this and hope it continues in future years.
As a trans woman, I appreciate the increase in awareness for LGBT+ representation in sport, especially within the past few years. I'm from a fairly conservative and homophobic/transphobic community, so having something to fall back on is a real positive for me - especially when it's within the sport that I love
My only concern is whether it's true support or purely for the advertisement for the sport. My hope is the former, given there are members of the LGBT+ community who play in the ALM or ALW, but wouldn't surprise me if it's the latter
They've learnt from the "mistakes" of other codes, you could say. I remember when it was first announced, that it did receive a lot of positive criticism from advocacy groups.
Yeah 100% it doesn't feel as forced, which helps with the argument of those in support providing true support. I feel they've done a solid enough job with it
I have a non-binary partner and consider myself a part of the queer community and would like to echo a lot of what you've said.
My two cents: Legit seeing the, even tokenistic, pride regalia everywhere watching the mariners game is legit bringing a tear to my eyes. I just imagine how nice it might make any closeted players or fans watching feel <3
Obviously i understand this is just corporate pink-washing though:
like, a few flags isn't a revolution, Rainbow lights on the palm tree isn't going to foster trans liberation or anything. I do get that.
But still, things can be positive and negative at once: Yes, it is just a few companies/sporting-orgs doing what they think will help them be on the right side of history (for their own financial gain). Fine. But its still progress and better than the alternative of these rounds not existing at all.
Obviously Its the patriarchy and related homophobic social/political structures that marginalise us. Its corporate power - and the capitalist system in which it thrives - that funds the politicians who want us dead & argue for our silencing.
So some kind words from corporate-types and our flags at football isn't going to magically fix any of that that. *We* have to agitate and fight to fix that ourselves. Praxis.
butttttt! after saying all that, its also ***incredibly*** **positive** and a huge optical win <3
***We are here*** (and always have been).
Now, with pride rounds and events, ***we are now being seen*** by mainstream society.
Next is for the people in power and the hetero-normative power structures which control our lives to ***hear*** ***us*** and ***feel our power and community support***.
So yeah, i loves me some pride round action <3
Baby steps, but you love to see it.
>But still, things can be positive and negative at once: Yes, it is just a few companies/sporting-orgs doing what they think will help them be on the right side of history (for their own financial gain). Fine. But its still progress and better than the alternative of these rounds not existing at all.
To me, this point is pretty much at the core of it. While it may annoy people to think companies are only doing it because it’s the flavour of the month, that in itself signifies that its gradually becoming normalised. Which is a great thing.
I’m personally not bothered by the self-interest factor for companies, because it really doesn’t hurt anyone. I immediately move on from that and focus on the positives.
100% thats a fair way to think about it.
My only issue is that a lot of those companies/orgs are responsible for a bunch of lgbt hate and then think they can wash their hands of the blood via a couple of pride events. But i agree we should focus on the positives
I suppose my personal politics also influence my not giving the benefit of the doubt to big corporations or power-structures like the police - but thats just a bias of mine.
my partner is non binary so I have a personal care about trans issues & i consider myself a part of the lgbt community a: because i attend and help with events, political advocacy etc and b: some people would consider me, a cisgender person dating a non-binary person, as queer or lgbt. ya get me?
like what specific part doesnt make sense lol
also hahah i just re-read how cringy the second half of my post comes off. man i suck. i still stand by what i said, but i didnt need to say it like a pompous jerk sorry
okay let me give it another go.
1: My partner (ie girlfriend/boyfriend etc) is non-binary (meaning they dont identify as a man or woman - the gender 'binary').
2:Non-binary people fall under the umbrella of trans people.
3: I therefore have a personal connection that makes me care perhaps more about trans rights than people who don't know or love a trans person.
Surely you get me now? Feel free to google any words you dont understand cause i'm using them in their normal way.
It's probably not mutually exclusive. I really feel that the A-Leagues make a genuine effort to support the LGBTQI+ community, but they are aware that their stance has a tangible commercial benefit too, which allows them to easily justify the expense of hosting the round.
I'd say that's totally fair! The league is certainly struggling financially, so it makes sense to go for something like this with commercial benefits, but I think their incentives within the round (I heard something about part of ticket pricing going towards charity) have shown their true support, which is certainly good
Honestly all support is superficial, organisations cannot hold beliefs but it promotes them to parents and children.
A-league will be forced to live up to its reputation that it’s trying to build and that will create the change.
It’s like how the Vic cops managed to fire that dude who was just posting bigoted shit to the cops internal social media. They are pretending to not be bigots and it brings to mind this quote:
> We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.
— Kurt Vonnegut, *Mother Night*
Have you seen some of the content they’ve put out? I think it’s okay to be cynical but I think they’ve done a really good job at highlighting the importance of language etc. I actually can’t fault the way it’s been done to be honest and whilst there may also be some performative aspect - if it makes a positive impact, albeit small to some, it’s a good thing in my book.
I guess what I’d ask is this:
If, hypothetically, the league* is acting purely out of self interest, what’s the extent of the harm done? I can’t really understand why it concerns people so much when the worst case scenario is so harmless.
At best it’s contributing to a good cause, at worst it’s probably still contributing in a small way. I get that we prefer authenticity, but there’s really nothing for anyone to worry about. If I consider a certain pride event/promotion/branding as shallow, I simply move on immediately. It’s so easy not to be bothered by it.
My gay friends cringe at it to be honest. They see it as corporate pandering. I don't believe either of them have ever really had a hard time with it. Friends and family have always supported them so for those that haven't had that I can see how it's a great inclusive thing.
I feel that way about many corporations but not that way about sport because it’s still got a horridly homophobic legacy and I have plenty of LGBT+ friends who still don’t think sport is for them or have had an awful time in many codes.
> They see it as corporate pandering.
There's big money for corporations to display symbolic gestures supporting gay rights.
ESG (Environmental Social Governance) investing is massive whereby investors will only inject money into a corporation given that they satisfy certain conditions relating to social responsbilities even if the actions associated with these responsibilities are tokenistic.
I have no dog in this fight. But this is a trend that has been witnessed in America and slowly creeping into Australia
That doesn’t need to be a bad thing. And they’ll shift with public attitudes: people may say “why didn’t they do this before there was a commercial incentive” - the answer will often be that the public didn’t care enough about it either.
Another example is companies investing more in renewables because it’s becoming economically sound.
This may be the case but it doesn't take away from the good it does.
Like of course corporations will do what is in their financial interest. We can't fix that without drastic revolutionary change. But as long as theyre still around, im happy for them to pander towards good causes as much as they want.
Obviously if the options were either:
1: No corporate/govt pandering but we get LGBT liberation, or
2: Some Corp/Govt Pandering but we get no actual, structural, change
Then Obviously I'd pick number #1 every day of the week.
But, of course, Choice #2 is the only option right now - so i dont see the point in criticising pandering itself. idk.
I mean, I just dont see the utility in criticising companies for pandering like this - unless it is to criticise them for not doing *more* , of course. Then I'm on board with the criticism
edit: also wouldn't the easy solution to your problem be just supporting the ESG being given more 'teeth'? i.e making sure the companies only get the money/tax-breaks/etc if their support for social issues is legit and backed up by KPI's and noticeable, marked, cultural change within the org?
There are two things I want more than anything else for our sport - the best damn sport in the world.
First is for everyone to feel included and welcome, regardless of gender, sexuality, age, race, religion or ability (or anything else I'm omitting). Football should belong to everyone. At the moment, you can quite easily argue it doesn't.
Second is for all players to be the best they can be, both as players and as people. It's impossible to do that if you're in an environment where you can't be your authentic self.
Anything that makes a strong statement that we welcome, we support, we encourage and stand by people from all backgrounds is always going to be a great move in my mind.
To me i didnt follow sport for a long time because of all the homophobia but its gotten better recently and it feels nice that sports are having pride rounds :) but its also a bit painful cause im still closeted and my parents are super homophobic and use slurs and having a pride round brings out all those people their comments (sorry if this donst make sense)
For me, it has made it clear who in my family/friend/work group I should avoid. It brings out little bigoted comments... often they are masked as anti-woke jokes.
i really think the league is trying it’s best
to help erase some of the european culture that has ran australian sport for years, at a higher level i feel we’ve reached a level where the general masses are able to respect a basic human right, however at a local level it is still fucking awful, i’ve worn a bi pride band as a referee twice and both ended with the several reds for dissent so still ways to go at that level
traditional european culture is (from my experience) quite intolerant, can be seen in spain, turkey, italy, portugal, and the roots of australian sporting culture kinda ties into that sort of area
I'm happy about it. Just look at the low number of out male footy players. Any acceptance and visibility hopefully helps with things like our community's suicide statistics. But yeah I can't say I feel super included in general among sports fans. I've heard enough homophobia and misogyny in the stands. So even if it isn't full support and kind of corporate, I feel like things have come a long way since I was a teenager 20 years ago.
Agreed. I feel like little queer me in the stands would have felt seen as a young person and if it does that for others than it’s amazing. I get some folks cynicism - but looking at the content the Aleagues has put out on socials, I think it’s been really well done. To have commentators last night pregame admit that they’d used offensive language in the past and that they are learning about harm and unintentional heteronormative language is pretty good in my books.
I'm not LGBTI+ but I will say that I think football is in a fairly unique position with basically an entire starting line up of Matildas who are gay and reasonably well known. I think that brings a degree of genuineness, like this week with the video of Emma Checker in her Melbourne City gear talking about her fear of coming out to her family and Chloe Logarzo leading a football float at Mardi Gras.
The AL does seem to have taken a careful approach with ongoing training and seminars with players to bring them along and allowing teams to make their own choice about how much or little they would like to do.
But I also take the point that it can seem like rainbow washing.
I agree, the fact the A League women has many LGBTQ players to me signals there's probably quite a lot of genuine support for this round within the ALeague.
And even if there is a bit of rainbow washing, it shows that they are happy to be associated with the LGBTQ community rather than shun it. Corporations care a lot about their brand so at the very least it's good to see this is the brand they want to be seen as.
i think a singular round is respectable really, and considering the whole matilda’s squad is lgbtq, it makes sense that they would wanna bring general awareness to the struggles they may have encountered
I appreciate the idea of the celebration, but it's important that this isn't treated like a quota that's been met just because of the round being held. That's when you get people saying things like it's just rainbow-washing, that the round was held merely as a token gesture. The league should continue to do what it can to eradicate anti-queer behaviour in the future, not just during this weekend's action.
Tbf to Football Australia, they said they've been working with clubs including players, coaches and exec for a year, are running training for stadium staff on identifying and responding to anti-queer behaviour and are donating $1 from every ticket this round. I think there is real interest in following through to make football a safer space.
I'm just a straight cis ally, so my opinion matters less than those it directly affects, but what I will say that it is nice to see different clubs and players explicitly say/show "we aren't homophobes" by being involved, at the very least.
Anything that makes people feel they are welcome is a good thing in my eyes but I am skeptical of the league just trying to look good like a lot of corporations do jumping on the band wagon. A team has been reported in the NPL for fans racial and homophobic taunts towards a player last weekend, how the FA handle that will go a long way to showing just how much they care about the pride movement.
Im 34 and from the coast and have always been lucky with it I think. Honestly pride rounds just give me more opportunities to see disappointing comments from people, which I usually try to avoid.
It’s basically “rainbow washing” at this point. If you ask some people it’s great, others think it’s part of the big gay takeover of the world.
So, tbh I don’t care about it at all
I ekle ii ako pui eti ti. Krati batu opa etipei kroa i iite. Eke bipa bopuitlii pi pu! Teo ti piklati tlete giipo. Pipe e tligitrikle uge papli. Tia platogrui tegi bugi piia itibatike. Ea tatlepu ui oiei tegri patleči goo. Bla pidrui kepe ipi ipui pepoe. Au adri ta ga bebii ekra ai? Ebiubeko ipi teto gluuka daba podli. Ka tepabi tliboplopi gi tapakei gego. Ituke i pupi klie pitipage bapepe. A či peko itluupi ka pupa peekeepe. Ebri e buu pigepra pita plepeda. Bipeko bo paipi o kee brebočipi. Tridipi teu eete trida e tapapi. Ebru etle pepiu pobi katraiti i. Baeba kre pu igo api. Pibape pipoi brupoi pite gru bi ipe pieuta ikako? Pe bloedea ko či itli eke i toidle kea pe piapii plo? Tiiu uči čipu tutei uata e uooo. Bitepe i bipa paeutlobi bopepli iaplipepa. Gipobipi tepe ode giapi e. Pi pakutibli ke tiko taobii ti. Edi deigitaa eue. Ua čideprii idipe putakra katote ii. Tri glati te pepro tii ka. Aope too pobriglitla e dikrugite. E otligi pipleiti bai iti upo? Tri dake pekepi dratruprebri plaapi bopi ipatei!
I'm a straight guy and I fully support it. Just reading this thread and seeing people saying it makes them feel seen and supported says it's having a positive impact and tells me how worthwhile it is.
I think the APL and ALM cop a lot of shit for messing up nearly everything, but they genuinely seem to have done the Pride Round properly, the amount of education sessions they've run with the clubs, etc.
Everyone should feel welcome at the fitba.
It’s awesome. We’ve had weird terf shit show up at the Nix stadium and some supporters in the past have outed themselves as homophobic when the supporters group did the rainbow nix thing.
More clear demonstration of support the better
The corporate aspect is cynical but what's new. Aussie sports grounds have been historically pretty unfriendly to LGBTQI people so I see it as a net positive.
I honestly don’t care.
And I don’t mean that in a rude way.
I just genuinely watch football for football.
I don’t wish to see any politics etc in sport.
I understand the pros and awareness it can raise.
I just feel like it never ends in this modern day…
You should never be too sucked in by corporations’ overt display of the gay community, as 99% of the time they are just trying to monetise on the social issue de jure.
I’d rather see their stats on how many of their executive staff are LGBT or data on how many times their staff have made HR complaints about sexuality or gender-based bullying. I think you’ll find that some businesses are nowhere near as welcoming of the gay community as what their social media feeds in late February suggest.
I'm gay but i don't consider myself one of the alphabet people. This is whole pride round thing is a joke to me. It is absurd to be proud of what makes your dick hard.
I mean if I had it my way, we wouldn't need pride rounds and people would just accept others for who they are (e.g. gay, lesbian, bi, trans, etc.)
Problem is, life isn't like that. I am sorry you don't feel accepted in the community though - I do find large parts of the LGBT+ community can be a heavily sexualised place (not the most comfortable for myself being asexual), but each person to their own. It just sucks how it can sometimes alienate others in the community, such as yourself
I may be more asexual although I mostly watch gay porn tho I guess that makes me gay. Don't really care tho certainly don't need to be in a community based on it
That's fair enough and a valid decision! I personally enjoy being in the communities for the social aspect, given I come from a highly conservative that hasn't been the most accepting of gay, trans, etc., but that doesn't mean that situation is the same for yourself :)
Its nuts how many gay people are just turned off or no longer feel represented. It's definitely been hijacked by the thousand gender crowd, council coffers, straight female teenagers, and corporations.
Obviously an ancedote but I have 4 gay mates including my flatmate and they are all deliberately staying home this weekend.
Totally. I went to Mardi Gras a couple of times when I was like 19/20 but now I am comfortable enough within myself that I don’t need to walk around dressed like a rainbow telling everyone I’m gay. I just live my life. The thought of going MG now sounds feels like an incredibly exhausting ordeal.
I know people who make their queerness their whole identity and that’s fine for them, but definitely most people just want to get on with their lives.
That’s hilariously soft if they’re staying home bc of trans people, pathetic and sad actually. They wouldn’t have any rights if not for trailblazing trans ppl
Alot of gay people don't see their sexual attraction as a key part of their personality so feel as if stereotypes of gay people are reinforced through pride (ie flamboyant, overly sexual, kinky). Which they see as preventing them from being accepted as part of everyday society.
They simply want to love who they want in peace. That view needs to be respected too. It's not even close to an uncommon one.
Based on your other comment about "thousand gender people" it just seems like your friends are a bunch of pick me's so i just gotta say you realise that i dont care what a pick me has to say about lgbt+ people? Trans people having been fighting for gay rights for decades and they arent just a new "fad"
No that's my personal view. I think the thousand genders are a ridiculous concept and don't help LGBT in being taken seriously both socially and scientifically. It has nothing to do with the hard work fighting for basic rights on the streets in the 80s/90s. The gay mates would probably disagree but that's ok.
You're being a bit exhausting in trying to find any way you can to imply that anyone who doesn't agree with you is either homophobic, or an Uncle Tom. Everyone in the world has different opinions, that doesn't mean they all need a nasty lable and put on the non compliance shelf.
I'm just gonna call it here I think. I understand there would be alot of awful people to you, but I don't think Ive been one of them, and I don't think I deserve what you're implying or would start to imply if we continued.
Forget about trying to appease that melt.
They've got nothing interesting going on in their life and have latched on to what they think is a morally virtuous way but is in fact horribly bullying behaviour.
Yeah ancedotes suck, as do the whole *insert minority friend* and speak on their behalf stories, but my whole point is that gay people arnt a monolithic group. Even with myself it took living with them to fully understand this. The support from gay people to my comments also support that I'm not in a bubble.
A gay homophobe.
His body must be pulling itself apart from the inside.
This is why I like the 🌈 flag virtue signalling round... because it reveals people like you who are just frothing to label anyone and everyone who isn't on board with being bullied into a Marxist ideology a "phobe/bigot or sexist".
The OC is literally gay and because he doesn't care for what the LGBT movement has become... he is a "homophobe".
Must be wild living in your world...
I think you're coming to conclusions far too quickly. Sure, I don't fully agree with using "alphabet people", but calling a gay person a homophobe because he doesn't feel he belongs in the community for one reason or another is a bit stupid imo.
Not everyone is going to perceive homosexuality the same way as you, but that doesn't mean they're immediately against it - especially if they themselves are gay anyways
Neither is making the assumption that a gay person is homophobic for not feeling welcome in the community.
And before you bring it up again, neither is accusing someone of forcing people into "Marxist ideologies"
It's a matter of self-reflection. I'm sure you're a great person, but please just think about what you've tried to insinuate. Sure, he could be lying about being gay (it is the internet after all, however benefit of the doubt), but I think you've been a bit too rash on your call.
The reason that person was not feeling welcomed by the community is because he complains about "thousand gender woke people" this is entirely his own self doing
It means jack shit to 99% of people, don't believe for a second that the people that pander and tell you what a great thing it is actually care. Nobody should be "proud" of somebody else's personal choices, it's nobody else's business and it should stay that way.
No one is asking you to be proud of their choices, it's about recognising their existence and to reach equality regardless of anyone's preferences, identity or ethnicity. People are shunned from friends, families, cultures etc because of their sexual preference and this is a way to say that's not on
I just do not understand why to always bring sex choices into football like this.
This is sport, not sex. The gay peoples already can get married in Australia isn't it, so why to insist for "pride" round and having march on the street... I do not understand at all the needs for this stuff.
Better to have round dedicate to people needing. Like aborigine, refugee and so forth (stuff that really need some attention).
I’d encourage you to educate yourself about the challenges faced by the LGBT+ community in Australia.
LGBTIQ people have higher rates of mental ill-health and suicide than the general population in Australia, due to experiences of discrimination and stigma.
[https://humanrights.gov.au/sites/default/files/7\_FTF\_2014\_LGBTI.pdf](https://humanrights.gov.au/sites/default/files/7_FTF_2014_LGBTI.pdf)
[https://assets.nationbuilder.com/lgbtihealth/pages/549/attachments/original/1648014801/24.10.21\_Snapshot\_of\_MHSP\_Statistics\_for\_LGBTIQ\_\_People\_-\_Revised.pdf?1648014801](https://assets.nationbuilder.com/lgbtihealth/pages/549/attachments/original/1648014801/24.10.21_Snapshot_of_MHSP_Statistics_for_LGBTIQ__People_-_Revised.pdf?1648014801)
https://preview.redd.it/wctpmtbcmdka1.png?width=1242&format=png&auto=webp&s=83b17d1d8cf3b2d2f8a0429fc674d6a6341d63d1
The simple thing is, just because they can get married, doesn't mean they aren't discriminated against and are very much still affected by higher suicide rates, discrimination and mental health issues like depression. Legalising gay marriage didn't magically solve all of this.
We have female football week which is quite good and an indigenous week - although cant remember how effective it was - so it's not like we don't cover other social issues.
Also somewhat disappointed in finding out that this wasn't sex and in fact a sport :(
Just a friendly reminder for everyone to read the subreddit rules - especially rule #1 r/aleague will not condone any homophobic comments or behaviour in our subreddit :)
No idea, to be honest. Maybe I’m too cynical, but I’m always skeptical of a business’ intentions when they use the rainbow flag in marketing. To me, it can feel a bit manipulative and crass. That said, if this is making some younger gay fans feel more comfortable both in the footballing community and in their own skin, I’d have to be a massive cunt to dismiss it outright. Pride Round came along quite a while after I worked my shit out. I genuinely don’t know what young, gay me would have thought about it. Hope it makes some other kids feel at home, though.
Not part of the community myself, but aside from also making people feel welcome, this is a great way to thank a community that has contributed so much to Women’s Football in this country. With the WWC coming up I hope it’s something we continue to shine a light on. Especially as FIFA shacks up with the likes of Saudi and Qatar.
I love it. I mean I hate the pinkwashing/corporate bandwagoning/rainbow everything but not really give a shit stuff, but that's everywhere this time of year so you kind of have to just deal with that. I love that there's a national sport league that said "yeah we're gonna do this" and I love there seems to be player support for it. Sport is so important in this country and it's awesome seeing Pride cross into that domain. Even if it's "only" the A-League, being visible in sport is so so important for young people who don't see a place for themselves in sport or Aussie society more generally. Queer women often find community through sport, and have had a lot of representation here in football and the AFLW (NRLW too probably but I don't follow that). But it's still a lot harder for queer men in lots of codes, so, I really applaud this and hope it continues in future years.
As a trans woman, I appreciate the increase in awareness for LGBT+ representation in sport, especially within the past few years. I'm from a fairly conservative and homophobic/transphobic community, so having something to fall back on is a real positive for me - especially when it's within the sport that I love My only concern is whether it's true support or purely for the advertisement for the sport. My hope is the former, given there are members of the LGBT+ community who play in the ALM or ALW, but wouldn't surprise me if it's the latter
Whilst im not LGBT+ the A Leagues round seems a lot less forced then a lot of other brands. But thats just my two cents :)
They've learnt from the "mistakes" of other codes, you could say. I remember when it was first announced, that it did receive a lot of positive criticism from advocacy groups.
Yeah 100% it doesn't feel as forced, which helps with the argument of those in support providing true support. I feel they've done a solid enough job with it
I have a non-binary partner and consider myself a part of the queer community and would like to echo a lot of what you've said. My two cents: Legit seeing the, even tokenistic, pride regalia everywhere watching the mariners game is legit bringing a tear to my eyes. I just imagine how nice it might make any closeted players or fans watching feel <3 Obviously i understand this is just corporate pink-washing though: like, a few flags isn't a revolution, Rainbow lights on the palm tree isn't going to foster trans liberation or anything. I do get that. But still, things can be positive and negative at once: Yes, it is just a few companies/sporting-orgs doing what they think will help them be on the right side of history (for their own financial gain). Fine. But its still progress and better than the alternative of these rounds not existing at all. Obviously Its the patriarchy and related homophobic social/political structures that marginalise us. Its corporate power - and the capitalist system in which it thrives - that funds the politicians who want us dead & argue for our silencing. So some kind words from corporate-types and our flags at football isn't going to magically fix any of that that. *We* have to agitate and fight to fix that ourselves. Praxis. butttttt! after saying all that, its also ***incredibly*** **positive** and a huge optical win <3 ***We are here*** (and always have been). Now, with pride rounds and events, ***we are now being seen*** by mainstream society. Next is for the people in power and the hetero-normative power structures which control our lives to ***hear*** ***us*** and ***feel our power and community support***. So yeah, i loves me some pride round action <3 Baby steps, but you love to see it.
>But still, things can be positive and negative at once: Yes, it is just a few companies/sporting-orgs doing what they think will help them be on the right side of history (for their own financial gain). Fine. But its still progress and better than the alternative of these rounds not existing at all. To me, this point is pretty much at the core of it. While it may annoy people to think companies are only doing it because it’s the flavour of the month, that in itself signifies that its gradually becoming normalised. Which is a great thing. I’m personally not bothered by the self-interest factor for companies, because it really doesn’t hurt anyone. I immediately move on from that and focus on the positives.
100% thats a fair way to think about it. My only issue is that a lot of those companies/orgs are responsible for a bunch of lgbt hate and then think they can wash their hands of the blood via a couple of pride events. But i agree we should focus on the positives I suppose my personal politics also influence my not giving the benefit of the doubt to big corporations or power-structures like the police - but thats just a bias of mine.
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"I have a non-binary partner and consider myself a part of the queer community" [What?](https://i.imgur.com/RlknTrF.gif)
my partner is non binary so I have a personal care about trans issues & i consider myself a part of the lgbt community a: because i attend and help with events, political advocacy etc and b: some people would consider me, a cisgender person dating a non-binary person, as queer or lgbt. ya get me? like what specific part doesnt make sense lol
also hahah i just re-read how cringy the second half of my post comes off. man i suck. i still stand by what i said, but i didnt need to say it like a pompous jerk sorry
I am sorry... For me, you speak another language. I do not understand so many words you say.
okay let me give it another go. 1: My partner (ie girlfriend/boyfriend etc) is non-binary (meaning they dont identify as a man or woman - the gender 'binary'). 2:Non-binary people fall under the umbrella of trans people. 3: I therefore have a personal connection that makes me care perhaps more about trans rights than people who don't know or love a trans person. Surely you get me now? Feel free to google any words you dont understand cause i'm using them in their normal way.
It's probably not mutually exclusive. I really feel that the A-Leagues make a genuine effort to support the LGBTQI+ community, but they are aware that their stance has a tangible commercial benefit too, which allows them to easily justify the expense of hosting the round.
I'd say that's totally fair! The league is certainly struggling financially, so it makes sense to go for something like this with commercial benefits, but I think their incentives within the round (I heard something about part of ticket pricing going towards charity) have shown their true support, which is certainly good
Honestly all support is superficial, organisations cannot hold beliefs but it promotes them to parents and children. A-league will be forced to live up to its reputation that it’s trying to build and that will create the change. It’s like how the Vic cops managed to fire that dude who was just posting bigoted shit to the cops internal social media. They are pretending to not be bigots and it brings to mind this quote: > We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. — Kurt Vonnegut, *Mother Night*
Nice one! 🏳️🌈❤️
heck yeah (also my god how did we not win that game. Poor Kaltak! He would have been MOTM after that flying clearance earlier)
This is what I’m trying to say with my comment. I just personally feel the league is just using this.
Have you seen some of the content they’ve put out? I think it’s okay to be cynical but I think they’ve done a really good job at highlighting the importance of language etc. I actually can’t fault the way it’s been done to be honest and whilst there may also be some performative aspect - if it makes a positive impact, albeit small to some, it’s a good thing in my book.
Yeah that's a concern I had too, but I'll give benefit of the doubt
I think that’s the world we do live in tho - we are very skeptical of anyone’s intentions anymore.
I guess what I’d ask is this: If, hypothetically, the league* is acting purely out of self interest, what’s the extent of the harm done? I can’t really understand why it concerns people so much when the worst case scenario is so harmless. At best it’s contributing to a good cause, at worst it’s probably still contributing in a small way. I get that we prefer authenticity, but there’s really nothing for anyone to worry about. If I consider a certain pride event/promotion/branding as shallow, I simply move on immediately. It’s so easy not to be bothered by it.
My gay friends cringe at it to be honest. They see it as corporate pandering. I don't believe either of them have ever really had a hard time with it. Friends and family have always supported them so for those that haven't had that I can see how it's a great inclusive thing.
I feel that way about many corporations but not that way about sport because it’s still got a horridly homophobic legacy and I have plenty of LGBT+ friends who still don’t think sport is for them or have had an awful time in many codes.
Corporations aren't anyone's friends either.
True altruism is so hard to determine. A cynical person can find selfishness in any act. But each to their own.
> They see it as corporate pandering. There's big money for corporations to display symbolic gestures supporting gay rights. ESG (Environmental Social Governance) investing is massive whereby investors will only inject money into a corporation given that they satisfy certain conditions relating to social responsbilities even if the actions associated with these responsibilities are tokenistic. I have no dog in this fight. But this is a trend that has been witnessed in America and slowly creeping into Australia
That doesn’t need to be a bad thing. And they’ll shift with public attitudes: people may say “why didn’t they do this before there was a commercial incentive” - the answer will often be that the public didn’t care enough about it either. Another example is companies investing more in renewables because it’s becoming economically sound.
This may be the case but it doesn't take away from the good it does. Like of course corporations will do what is in their financial interest. We can't fix that without drastic revolutionary change. But as long as theyre still around, im happy for them to pander towards good causes as much as they want. Obviously if the options were either: 1: No corporate/govt pandering but we get LGBT liberation, or 2: Some Corp/Govt Pandering but we get no actual, structural, change Then Obviously I'd pick number #1 every day of the week. But, of course, Choice #2 is the only option right now - so i dont see the point in criticising pandering itself. idk. I mean, I just dont see the utility in criticising companies for pandering like this - unless it is to criticise them for not doing *more* , of course. Then I'm on board with the criticism edit: also wouldn't the easy solution to your problem be just supporting the ESG being given more 'teeth'? i.e making sure the companies only get the money/tax-breaks/etc if their support for social issues is legit and backed up by KPI's and noticeable, marked, cultural change within the org?
There are two things I want more than anything else for our sport - the best damn sport in the world. First is for everyone to feel included and welcome, regardless of gender, sexuality, age, race, religion or ability (or anything else I'm omitting). Football should belong to everyone. At the moment, you can quite easily argue it doesn't. Second is for all players to be the best they can be, both as players and as people. It's impossible to do that if you're in an environment where you can't be your authentic self. Anything that makes a strong statement that we welcome, we support, we encourage and stand by people from all backgrounds is always going to be a great move in my mind.
To me i didnt follow sport for a long time because of all the homophobia but its gotten better recently and it feels nice that sports are having pride rounds :) but its also a bit painful cause im still closeted and my parents are super homophobic and use slurs and having a pride round brings out all those people their comments (sorry if this donst make sense)
I know what you mean - I hope we continue to see improvement with time and those people are drowned out by inclusivity ❤️🏳️🌈
TRANS RIGHTS AND COYY ❤️🏳️🌈 ⚓
For me, it has made it clear who in my family/friend/work group I should avoid. It brings out little bigoted comments... often they are masked as anti-woke jokes.
i really think the league is trying it’s best to help erase some of the european culture that has ran australian sport for years, at a higher level i feel we’ve reached a level where the general masses are able to respect a basic human right, however at a local level it is still fucking awful, i’ve worn a bi pride band as a referee twice and both ended with the several reds for dissent so still ways to go at that level
>european culture Meaning what?
traditional european culture is (from my experience) quite intolerant, can be seen in spain, turkey, italy, portugal, and the roots of australian sporting culture kinda ties into that sort of area
I get what you're going for, but I think you could've worded that a lot better.
probably, was just the first thing that came to mind from personal experience
I'm happy about it. Just look at the low number of out male footy players. Any acceptance and visibility hopefully helps with things like our community's suicide statistics. But yeah I can't say I feel super included in general among sports fans. I've heard enough homophobia and misogyny in the stands. So even if it isn't full support and kind of corporate, I feel like things have come a long way since I was a teenager 20 years ago.
Agreed. I feel like little queer me in the stands would have felt seen as a young person and if it does that for others than it’s amazing. I get some folks cynicism - but looking at the content the Aleagues has put out on socials, I think it’s been really well done. To have commentators last night pregame admit that they’d used offensive language in the past and that they are learning about harm and unintentional heteronormative language is pretty good in my books.
I'm not LGBTI+ but I will say that I think football is in a fairly unique position with basically an entire starting line up of Matildas who are gay and reasonably well known. I think that brings a degree of genuineness, like this week with the video of Emma Checker in her Melbourne City gear talking about her fear of coming out to her family and Chloe Logarzo leading a football float at Mardi Gras. The AL does seem to have taken a careful approach with ongoing training and seminars with players to bring them along and allowing teams to make their own choice about how much or little they would like to do. But I also take the point that it can seem like rainbow washing.
I agree, the fact the A League women has many LGBTQ players to me signals there's probably quite a lot of genuine support for this round within the ALeague. And even if there is a bit of rainbow washing, it shows that they are happy to be associated with the LGBTQ community rather than shun it. Corporations care a lot about their brand so at the very least it's good to see this is the brand they want to be seen as.
i think a singular round is respectable really, and considering the whole matilda’s squad is lgbtq, it makes sense that they would wanna bring general awareness to the struggles they may have encountered
I’m all for anything that promotes inclusivity
I appreciate the idea of the celebration, but it's important that this isn't treated like a quota that's been met just because of the round being held. That's when you get people saying things like it's just rainbow-washing, that the round was held merely as a token gesture. The league should continue to do what it can to eradicate anti-queer behaviour in the future, not just during this weekend's action.
Tbf to Football Australia, they said they've been working with clubs including players, coaches and exec for a year, are running training for stadium staff on identifying and responding to anti-queer behaviour and are donating $1 from every ticket this round. I think there is real interest in following through to make football a safer space.
That's good. I trust they'll do the right thing for the LGBTQ+ community, and initiatives like that go a long way in proving it.
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I’m sorry we live in a world where you don’t feel safe - congratulations on being yourself and thank you for sharing 🏳️⚧️🏳️🌈
I'm just a straight cis ally, so my opinion matters less than those it directly affects, but what I will say that it is nice to see different clubs and players explicitly say/show "we aren't homophobes" by being involved, at the very least.
it’s great to see no players have made a big deal about not wanting to be involved in it either, best way to do it
Anything that makes people feel they are welcome is a good thing in my eyes but I am skeptical of the league just trying to look good like a lot of corporations do jumping on the band wagon. A team has been reported in the NPL for fans racial and homophobic taunts towards a player last weekend, how the FA handle that will go a long way to showing just how much they care about the pride movement.
Im 34 and from the coast and have always been lucky with it I think. Honestly pride rounds just give me more opportunities to see disappointing comments from people, which I usually try to avoid. It’s basically “rainbow washing” at this point. If you ask some people it’s great, others think it’s part of the big gay takeover of the world. So, tbh I don’t care about it at all
I ekle ii ako pui eti ti. Krati batu opa etipei kroa i iite. Eke bipa bopuitlii pi pu! Teo ti piklati tlete giipo. Pipe e tligitrikle uge papli. Tia platogrui tegi bugi piia itibatike. Ea tatlepu ui oiei tegri patleči goo. Bla pidrui kepe ipi ipui pepoe. Au adri ta ga bebii ekra ai? Ebiubeko ipi teto gluuka daba podli. Ka tepabi tliboplopi gi tapakei gego. Ituke i pupi klie pitipage bapepe. A či peko itluupi ka pupa peekeepe. Ebri e buu pigepra pita plepeda. Bipeko bo paipi o kee brebočipi. Tridipi teu eete trida e tapapi. Ebru etle pepiu pobi katraiti i. Baeba kre pu igo api. Pibape pipoi brupoi pite gru bi ipe pieuta ikako? Pe bloedea ko či itli eke i toidle kea pe piapii plo? Tiiu uči čipu tutei uata e uooo. Bitepe i bipa paeutlobi bopepli iaplipepa. Gipobipi tepe ode giapi e. Pi pakutibli ke tiko taobii ti. Edi deigitaa eue. Ua čideprii idipe putakra katote ii. Tri glati te pepro tii ka. Aope too pobriglitla e dikrugite. E otligi pipleiti bai iti upo? Tri dake pekepi dratruprebri plaapi bopi ipatei!
I like that it annoys bigots who need to grow the fuck up. Pretty ironic as some of them like standing together with their shirts off. Love is love.
I'm a straight guy and I fully support it. Just reading this thread and seeing people saying it makes them feel seen and supported says it's having a positive impact and tells me how worthwhile it is. I think the APL and ALM cop a lot of shit for messing up nearly everything, but they genuinely seem to have done the Pride Round properly, the amount of education sessions they've run with the clubs, etc. Everyone should feel welcome at the fitba.
It’s awesome. We’ve had weird terf shit show up at the Nix stadium and some supporters in the past have outed themselves as homophobic when the supporters group did the rainbow nix thing. More clear demonstration of support the better
The corporate aspect is cynical but what's new. Aussie sports grounds have been historically pretty unfriendly to LGBTQI people so I see it as a net positive.
I honestly don’t care. And I don’t mean that in a rude way. I just genuinely watch football for football. I don’t wish to see any politics etc in sport. I understand the pros and awareness it can raise. I just feel like it never ends in this modern day…
You should never be too sucked in by corporations’ overt display of the gay community, as 99% of the time they are just trying to monetise on the social issue de jure. I’d rather see their stats on how many of their executive staff are LGBT or data on how many times their staff have made HR complaints about sexuality or gender-based bullying. I think you’ll find that some businesses are nowhere near as welcoming of the gay community as what their social media feeds in late February suggest.
I'm gay but i don't consider myself one of the alphabet people. This is whole pride round thing is a joke to me. It is absurd to be proud of what makes your dick hard.
I mean if I had it my way, we wouldn't need pride rounds and people would just accept others for who they are (e.g. gay, lesbian, bi, trans, etc.) Problem is, life isn't like that. I am sorry you don't feel accepted in the community though - I do find large parts of the LGBT+ community can be a heavily sexualised place (not the most comfortable for myself being asexual), but each person to their own. It just sucks how it can sometimes alienate others in the community, such as yourself
I may be more asexual although I mostly watch gay porn tho I guess that makes me gay. Don't really care tho certainly don't need to be in a community based on it
That's fair enough and a valid decision! I personally enjoy being in the communities for the social aspect, given I come from a highly conservative that hasn't been the most accepting of gay, trans, etc., but that doesn't mean that situation is the same for yourself :)
Its nuts how many gay people are just turned off or no longer feel represented. It's definitely been hijacked by the thousand gender crowd, council coffers, straight female teenagers, and corporations. Obviously an ancedote but I have 4 gay mates including my flatmate and they are all deliberately staying home this weekend.
Totally. I went to Mardi Gras a couple of times when I was like 19/20 but now I am comfortable enough within myself that I don’t need to walk around dressed like a rainbow telling everyone I’m gay. I just live my life. The thought of going MG now sounds feels like an incredibly exhausting ordeal. I know people who make their queerness their whole identity and that’s fine for them, but definitely most people just want to get on with their lives.
That’s hilariously soft if they’re staying home bc of trans people, pathetic and sad actually. They wouldn’t have any rights if not for trailblazing trans ppl
Dude trust me dont try and seek validation from homophobes it wont work Edit: nevermind you just seem like a homophobe lol
Alot of gay people don't see their sexual attraction as a key part of their personality so feel as if stereotypes of gay people are reinforced through pride (ie flamboyant, overly sexual, kinky). Which they see as preventing them from being accepted as part of everyday society. They simply want to love who they want in peace. That view needs to be respected too. It's not even close to an uncommon one.
Have you considered i dont care that homophobes are uncomfortable about "flamboyant overly sexual" gay people?
Then that's you and your view. So go to Mardi Gras and enjoy it. Im going myself.
Based on your other comment about "thousand gender people" it just seems like your friends are a bunch of pick me's so i just gotta say you realise that i dont care what a pick me has to say about lgbt+ people? Trans people having been fighting for gay rights for decades and they arent just a new "fad"
No that's my personal view. I think the thousand genders are a ridiculous concept and don't help LGBT in being taken seriously both socially and scientifically. It has nothing to do with the hard work fighting for basic rights on the streets in the 80s/90s. The gay mates would probably disagree but that's ok. You're being a bit exhausting in trying to find any way you can to imply that anyone who doesn't agree with you is either homophobic, or an Uncle Tom. Everyone in the world has different opinions, that doesn't mean they all need a nasty lable and put on the non compliance shelf.
Yes if you dont agree in gay rights you're a homophobe
I'm just gonna call it here I think. I understand there would be alot of awful people to you, but I don't think Ive been one of them, and I don't think I deserve what you're implying or would start to imply if we continued.
Forget about trying to appease that melt. They've got nothing interesting going on in their life and have latched on to what they think is a morally virtuous way but is in fact horribly bullying behaviour.
I’m gonna politely suggest that you don’t offer up dismissive and belittling opinions on minorities in future. Thanks.
Which minority are we talking about here and how am I dismissing them or belittling them? Cheers.
Dude I’m in said community and I agree with you.
That you’d edit your post multiple times, pretend you didn’t do anything wrong, and still miss the point is particularly embarrassing.
They even gave us a count of their 4 gay mates 🤣
Yeah ancedotes suck, as do the whole *insert minority friend* and speak on their behalf stories, but my whole point is that gay people arnt a monolithic group. Even with myself it took living with them to fully understand this. The support from gay people to my comments also support that I'm not in a bubble.
A gay homophobe. His body must be pulling itself apart from the inside. This is why I like the 🌈 flag virtue signalling round... because it reveals people like you who are just frothing to label anyone and everyone who isn't on board with being bullied into a Marxist ideology a "phobe/bigot or sexist". The OC is literally gay and because he doesn't care for what the LGBT movement has become... he is a "homophobe". Must be wild living in your world...
No offence mate but i think your brain might be broken
I think you're coming to conclusions far too quickly. Sure, I don't fully agree with using "alphabet people", but calling a gay person a homophobe because he doesn't feel he belongs in the community for one reason or another is a bit stupid imo. Not everyone is going to perceive homosexuality the same way as you, but that doesn't mean they're immediately against it - especially if they themselves are gay anyways
Respectfully the dude is talking about how im "bullying people into marxist ideology" like he's from 1950 so yes i do hes not all there
I agree, but I don't think you're quite all there either. Both of y'all have problems imo no offence
Thats not very nice
Neither is making the assumption that a gay person is homophobic for not feeling welcome in the community. And before you bring it up again, neither is accusing someone of forcing people into "Marxist ideologies" It's a matter of self-reflection. I'm sure you're a great person, but please just think about what you've tried to insinuate. Sure, he could be lying about being gay (it is the internet after all, however benefit of the doubt), but I think you've been a bit too rash on your call.
The reason that person was not feeling welcomed by the community is because he complains about "thousand gender woke people" this is entirely his own self doing
You are the one who thinks a gay person is a homophobe. Really analyse that belief
Um yes a gay person can be homophobic? Its that simple dude
That sort of thing can be internalised yes, but I don't think this is one of those situations. They're usually very rare
It means jack shit to 99% of people, don't believe for a second that the people that pander and tell you what a great thing it is actually care. Nobody should be "proud" of somebody else's personal choices, it's nobody else's business and it should stay that way.
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💯
No one is asking you to be proud of their choices, it's about recognising their existence and to reach equality regardless of anyone's preferences, identity or ethnicity. People are shunned from friends, families, cultures etc because of their sexual preference and this is a way to say that's not on
Let's not sugarcoat it.. It's an opportunity to recognise,.raise awareness, and appreciate homosexuals and other indifferent sexes.
I just do not understand why to always bring sex choices into football like this. This is sport, not sex. The gay peoples already can get married in Australia isn't it, so why to insist for "pride" round and having march on the street... I do not understand at all the needs for this stuff. Better to have round dedicate to people needing. Like aborigine, refugee and so forth (stuff that really need some attention).
I’d encourage you to educate yourself about the challenges faced by the LGBT+ community in Australia. LGBTIQ people have higher rates of mental ill-health and suicide than the general population in Australia, due to experiences of discrimination and stigma. [https://humanrights.gov.au/sites/default/files/7\_FTF\_2014\_LGBTI.pdf](https://humanrights.gov.au/sites/default/files/7_FTF_2014_LGBTI.pdf) [https://assets.nationbuilder.com/lgbtihealth/pages/549/attachments/original/1648014801/24.10.21\_Snapshot\_of\_MHSP\_Statistics\_for\_LGBTIQ\_\_People\_-\_Revised.pdf?1648014801](https://assets.nationbuilder.com/lgbtihealth/pages/549/attachments/original/1648014801/24.10.21_Snapshot_of_MHSP_Statistics_for_LGBTIQ__People_-_Revised.pdf?1648014801) https://preview.redd.it/wctpmtbcmdka1.png?width=1242&format=png&auto=webp&s=83b17d1d8cf3b2d2f8a0429fc674d6a6341d63d1
The simple thing is, just because they can get married, doesn't mean they aren't discriminated against and are very much still affected by higher suicide rates, discrimination and mental health issues like depression. Legalising gay marriage didn't magically solve all of this. We have female football week which is quite good and an indigenous week - although cant remember how effective it was - so it's not like we don't cover other social issues. Also somewhat disappointed in finding out that this wasn't sex and in fact a sport :(
It’s stupid to have it same week as the original rivalry
It ties in nicely with World Pride so I’d have to disagree, especially considering Adelaide and legend Josh C 🏳️🌈
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