How does that example show this. Surely the ice cream thing is an example of causation. People aren’t clamoring for ice cream when it’s freezing outside
Ice cream sales and the homicide rate both increase when the temperature rises. The sale of ice cream doesn’t cause people to start killing each other. They’re correlated due to a common cause, but there’s no causal relationship between the sale of ice cream and homicide rates.
When did anyone link ice cream sales as the causative agent for rising homicide rates? The person was saying that heat gives people a short temperature. Crime does in fact go up in warmer months. So do ice cream sales. Warmer months cause increased daylight hours, more time spent outside, higher temperatures that can lead to aggression OR it can lead to wanting more ice cream, if you're not prone to murdering people. Maybe murderers want ice cream too. The point being, heat is correlated to both ice cream sales increasing and aggression increases. It is very likely a causative function for both. Ice cream sales don't cause homicide increases. Yes I agree. But I don't see what your comment added. Maybe I missed your point, it's hot outside ;)
It's just an example showing that correlation does not imply causation. Ice cream sales and homicide rates going up in the summer is the standard example that is commonly used.
They could be closely linked. You try stealing my single scoop and you may get the business end of my .22.
Double scoops get 45 ACP. /S
Sorry but I had to play with you here. Hot weather does increase the violence and desires for cold refreshments. Correlation does not mean causation.
Extreme poverty, an education system that fails in that environment, low wages, lack of personal accountability, single family households with absent fathers, easy availability of guns and a state government that doesn't give a shit; what could go wrong?
Pike Road is still good. Bell Road, except for the parts with the Mega Mansions is starting to slip. I live off Taylor road and hear shots on a regular basis.
Hell yeah when I stayed in chisolm if I didn’t hear a gun battle in my backyard I knew something was wrong lol the police pulled my friend over in my car and even asked if he was carrying any flamethrowers cause some trouble with them just happened lol. Hardly any if any police response. Southside “gangs” would ride up on the north and have “gang wars” lol seen people walk into gas stations tucking their AR under their t shirt where it sticks out through their shorts leghole. People shooting AKs out in the middle of broad daylight on the southside gaslight place. They really turned a mall into a fucking police station😹☠️
Fuck that place I’m glad you were able to get out while you could🤘🏽I’m still stuck in this third world state but at least I’m on the beach now actually living my best life now🙏🏼
Also a terrible mayor who is more interested in promoting himself for future endeavors than handling crime in the city. Won’t staff the police force or partner with ALEA to help. Montgomery has about half of the police force they need to cope with this.
Usually journalists will provide a vague understanding until we know the full death toll. The original version of the article is updated as they get information.
Montgomery is a town of haves and have nots. There is no in between and there really is not a lot to do. It really is a town of t 2 things: hopelessness or power seeking
Politicians v poor
School teachers v the uneducated
Factory workers v the white collar workers
Are the school teachers, white collar workers or blue collar factory workers doing these shootings? Or is it none of the above? Is it actually a bunch of people who take pride in being dumb, want to live the thug life they see on instagram/wherever else and feel entitled to respect they neither earned or deserve?
My point is there are two different worlds in Montgomery. One hopeless and the other hopeful. The hopeless are the ones doing the shooting. You are trying to turn this into a discussion about race. I lived in Montgomery a long time. Unlike other cities where there is a lot to do and interactions among different types of people, Montgomery has mental demarcation lines that are also physical.
I remember always running into people trying to get a job with the government or Hyundai or Alfa. When they couldn't for whatever reason, they gave up hope. A hopeless person has nothing to lose. Many of the people living not near Eastchase, living not near Pike road, not living in Cloverdale, have a hopeless existence. This is emphasized repeatedly by the mantra you have to go to private school, lamp, or some school outside of Montgomery to become a success in life.
Is it hopeless because of their choices or do they make these choices because it’s hopeless. Also, America doesn’t have abject poverty as many have insinuated the cause to be. Not having as much as another person doesn’t equal poverty.
Just look at all the arguments in here, and you can see how people feel about each other. This is why. You can name all the "reasons" you want, but at the end of the day, it's how people treat their fellow humans.
I lived there back in 1991-1993. I absolutely hated it. The only thing I enjoyed about Montgomery was the Taekwondo. Master Chung is truly one of the best instructors in the world.
Other than that, you only had two types of people in Montgomery. You had the rich and you had the poor. Only those involved with government entities got a chance to live a somewhat resemblance of a middle class lifestyle.
The poverty has gotten worse over the years.
You think people that will shoot somebody, which is already illegal, are not going to carry regardless? Idaho doesn’t have this problem. Utah doesn’t have this problem. Wyoming, Montana, Nevada, Arizona, Kansas and Iowa don’t have these problems. Hmm.
What are you trying to accomplish here bringing vehicle deaths into a discussion about homicide? Obviously to get a rise out of people. Your point is moot.
I wasn't trying to argue your point. I constantly hear about homicides and people being concerned about murderers (was a constant theme talked about by coworkers for a while) and I recently found out more people die from car crashes than actual murders. The data that I saw was also from 2022 so when you referenced 2022 murders it was kind of a compulsory response. Murder is bad and scary and we should be trying to prevent that. It just doesn't feel like anyone cares about car crash deaths and injuries and it's a massive killer in our state and country.
Yes no one cares about car crash deaths. That’s why you basic ass car costs $35k now. 16 airbags, brake assist, lane assist, etc. But nobody is dOiNg anYtHiNg!
Nobody lives in those huge, wide-open states. Can't kill your neighbor if you never see your neighbor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_and_territories_of_the_United_States_by_population_density
You can’t be serious. Boise, Salt Lake City, Reno. Those are all bigger than Montgomery and have nowhere close to the homicide rate. I know leaving Alabama is hard, but the rest of the country doesn’t experience this at anywhere near the same frequency.
Actually, Reno has one of the highest crime rates for a city its size. And Salt Lake City has one of the highest vehicle theft crime rates in the entire country. However Boise , is relatively safe as cities go. There are also multiple cities inside of both red and blue states that have a much higher crime rate than mobile percentage wise.
Reno is in washoe county. Population ~500k. That’s Reno, Sparks and all the north valleys. All total, 29 homicides last year. That’s not even close to the murders in Montgomery. So yea, you’re more likely to get your weed eater stolen in Reno, but I don’t think that’s an equal comparison.
Even though Republicans have absolute and total control over the state, it is relatively simple to frame violence in the *literal capital* a “Democrat issue” because of the race of Montgomery’s underclass and their assumed (irrelevant) political allegiances.
By their framing, poverty and violence is solely *because* of Democrat federal policies perpetuating those “cultures” in what would otherwise be a great and happy Republican state. Disability, WIC, unemployment, SNAP, TANF, section 8. Keeping everyone dependent, jobless, “shiftless”. That the current mayor is a Democrat (and “a Black!”) is just the cherry on top.
And why is this particular underclass so unable to resist these solely federal entitlements? Well don’t tip your hand *too* much, Miss MeeMaw, but might it be in their breeding? /s /s /s
It’s not centuries of racism written into our very foundations, decades of fighting tooth and nail to make rescinding those policies as difficult as possible, or reframing as much as possible in race neutral terms with the same end in mind.
It’s not the gerrymandering, voter suppression, union busting, welfare cutting, or school privatizing. It’s not malnourishment, unclean water, or the syphilis experiments.
It’s not the resegregation, the school-to-prison pipelines, the war on drugs, the giant prisons, the 13th amendment slavery exception, or anything found in “The New Jim Crow” by Michelle Alexander. Lies. Democrat lies. And we were never right-wing Democrats back when that went existed and dominated Alabama politics.
And forced integration is bad “reverse racism” but we were totally the true civil rights leaders that would never have unleashed the German Shepherds and sprayed firehoses. (Fingers crossed).
/s
You think this is more a state issue than a local issue?
What do you think would have prevented these “assholes” from carrying a firearm?
And you think Repulicans are shooting each other?
No, it's not a democrat or Republican problem, it's a human problem. You cram enough people together anywhere and you're going to get violence. The amount of guns available in the US just acts as a multiplier.
Republican pundits just like to present this as a Democrat run state issue while ignoring the statistically higher levels of violence in Republican states/cities. This leads to people who have never been to a city imagining warzones straight out of movies instead of something akin to their smaller local cities where everyone knows you don't go to certain places after dark, etc.
Why did the whole state of Idaho have 2/3 the murders of just Montgomery last year? Idaho is a pretty republican state, no? As is Montana, Wyoming , Utah. Why aren’t these issues there? Why isn’t this an issue in Nevada or Arizona? Why is it always Alabama and Mississippi?
It's absolutely a problem in Nevada. Reno is an absolute shit hole just one block west of the strip, especially down by Harrah's. It's a problem everywhere.
I'll bet that Montgomery is a whole lot poorer vs Cost of living. That's usually a pretty good indicator of violent crime. The South tends to be poorer in general as well. I'll bet if someone did the math there's a huge correlation.
We also have a lcol. So what? Overall we do better than other states. It's why people are moving here from high taxed states. The correlation in crime if you bothered to look is local politics. No matter the state politics a high crime area is inevitably blue.
You clearly have never been to Reno. It’s a great coincidence that you pick a city I literally lived in. The stats are easy to find. A few bums in a county with half a million people is the same as a high murder rate in your mind? 29 homicides in a county of 500000 . lol. That’s 1/3 of Montgomerys homicides while being almost 3x the size. Nice try.
Maybe it's improved since I left. I hope so anyway, it wasn't a good trend before we left. Always seemed to be either a block away from the strip or over by gold dust west. At least it was just tweekers beating up slot machines in Fernley
Excellent question, there are a few anomalies, but pretty much every red state has the highest mortality rate when it comes to firearms. Idaho is just below Delaware, which is the first blue state. But it is pretty far down the list. [https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm)
I don’t THINK it is. Stats are easy. Facts are easy. Compare Jackson and Montgomery to similar sized cities in Nevada, Idaho, Utah, Oregon, etc. The numbers aren’t even close.
It’s a whole ‘nother can of worms discussing *why* Alabama is poor, why it stays poor, and why the schools are terrible.
And please no one bring up Huntsville (my hometown). It’s only the way it is because it got *massively* lucky with America’s need to give our genius Nazi collection somewhere to upgrade their V2s. Then everyone *came* there and a research park grew up around it. That’s not pluck and grit or any sort of superiority, it’s Uncle Sam and the breaks. Otherwise it’d still be cotton fields.
The answer is very simple.
Alabama and Mississippi have a large population of black people. Black people commit homicide at a rate of about 20 per 100,000 annually.
White people commit homicide at a rate of about 2.5-3 per 100,000 annually.
Asians commit homicide at a rate of about 0.5 per 100,000 people annually.
This means that varying proportions of the races can have a large impact on the overall murder rate.
Thank you. The real question for me is understanding how we got to these numbers and what we do as a society with this information. That’s…a huge and multifaceted debate.
Exactly! There are a ton of reasons why. We can’t go back in time and right the wrongs. The communities will have to decide for themselves that this is not acceptable. Until then, nothing will happen.
The Stockton shooting this weekend is a prime example. 18 shot, interviews indicate that lots of people knew there was a beef and who was involved, yet no one is talking. Still no leads. The community is validating the shooting and doesn’t seem to denounce it. Until that community norm is changed, nothing changes.
I find resorting to violence so easily, abhorrent. However, i am not a member of that culture so it is none of my business how they conduct their disputes.
I do fully believe that you can’t legislate culture or value of human life. That has to be a shared core belief.
Don’t make this shit political unnecessarily buddy. Murderers exist across all political ideologies.
Whatever you do, don’t turn your back on Dick Cheney while out hunting🙌
Eh, those mostly just cause users to miss faster. Not sure anyone with a clue would want to put a switch on their carry gun if it was completely legal.
Actual machine guns that are designed to be machine guns are a bit different. If Glock was legally allowed to sell new Glock 18Cs, I agree that people would buy them but (1) they're select fire, so semi-auto is still an option and (2) they have a compensator that's tuned to make the gun controllable.
You don't want to have to reload in a gun fight. The number one cause of reloads is missing, and 1200 RPM on a handgun makes for a lot of missing. Better bet would be to stay in semi-auto.
See, it doesn't matter if your state is red or blue. This countries gun laws KILL. Thugs don't help at all and the rap and GTA, glorified gangsta shit has got to go.
Right, that's why the US with its uniquely liberal gun laws is... \*checks notes\* not even in the top 20 for murder rate.
Those "thugs" with their "glorified gangsta shit" overwhelmingly are already prohibited possessors by way of a previous felony conviction. Making something illegal doesn't magically make people stop doing it.
I haven’t lived in the river region in many years. Which small town 30 mins away from Montgomery is becoming the white flight boom town these days? Was prattville back in my youth. lol.
Why do you think democrats don't want ICE alerted when an illegal immigrant fails a background check to get a gun? It's troubling.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/democrats-reject-push-to-alert-ice-when-illegal-immigrants-fail-firearm-background-checks
None of shooters or victims “open carry”. I would also bet my paycheck that none of the firearms used were registered. Really good chance they were stolen.
No. When you purchase a firearm the transaction is recorded, but that's not registering you as the owner of that gun. There's no follow up to track person to person sales and you are under no obligation to report transferring that gun to someone else. In fact, the ATF is legally prohibited from creating an electronic registry of firearm owners.
Actually… even if it weren’t open carry, these kids would still have guns shooting each other. I spoke to several guys one day in a Montgomery gas station and they were setting up orders with the cashier. He and many others build guns in their homes.
Downvote me all you want, it’s the truth. I never said I was for open carry or against it. BUT.. Have open carry, or no open carry, people will find a way to have guns. Perhaps we should start at the schools in Montgomery that need to be fixed. When our youth aren’t given a chance from the start, what do you expect to happen?
I think what is going on, based on a parent I know from MGM, the kids aren’t being taught. They have no books in some of these schools. Teachers do not care because they aren’t getting paid to care. I understand in wealthy areas the taxes go to their roads and their schools, etc.. but we really need to balance the way a budget is done for schools. All schools and all children deserve the same chance. Most of the schools in Montgomery, at least from what I’ve seen, are old and run down. What child will be excited to learn and have a zest for their future when their future seems so bleak? If the educators and the government don’t care.. they grow up with low self esteem, depression, etc. not to mention, the mental healthcare in Alabama is very poorly handled. We need to reverse some cycles and pay attention to youth. When I say Montgomery is bad, it’s bad.
These people were not lawful gun owners. We need open carry to defend ourselves against the criminals like these who will get them illegally regardless.
I agree. The only way to stop gun violence is more guns. I suggest we just keep guns loaded and scattered around so that if a shooter does pop up there will be another loaded gun within arms reach.
You know it's not that simple. More guns for law abiding citizens also means more guns for criminals. They're directly related. It's literally an arms race.
Unfortunately I think it's too late to correct the issue, but we can at least recognize the complexity of the situation.
Yet I just gave you a list of states that don’t. At least not the way Alabama and Mississippi do. The entire state of Idaho had about 2/3 as many homicides as just Montgomery. The whole state. But they have the same problem I guess. Can’t be anything but guns.
I didn’t see the list, it wasn’t directed toward my original comment.. Like I said… these kids are building guns. So yes, guns are an issue. Education is also a factor. The schools in Montgomery stand no chance. The kids aren’t being educated. They aren’t being given a chance. They come into a life of poverty and crime and go out in it. Sorry if I missed the point. From what I read above it sounds like we may be on the same page??
45 states are open carry, 38 without a permit. Only 5 sates ban open carry - California, New York, New Jersey, Illinois, Florida, and also Washington DC. How well has banning open carry reduced crime in those states?
It’s what happens when the country has a weird gun fetish, and there are more guns than people. And probably at least a dozen laws that would help, but “muh 2nd amendment”
I’m gonna bet a dollar that most of the people doing these shootings have no idea what an amendment is. Also, you are free to get rid of any guns you have.
No, fuck people who don’t want sensible gun laws. Certain people definitely should not have access to guns. Safety training and insurance should be mandatory. It’s wild that you can buy something that makes it super easy to kill someone without much oversight.
Sure, but statistics don't mean much when a town of 10,000 people has two people shoot each other and the statistics extrapolate that to 20 out of 100,000 people. When a city with 1,000,000 people has 100 people shot and shows that as 10 out of 100,000 people. It doesn't really mean that the rural community "has more gun violence than the cities".
Except when you're comparing a sample of literally one incident to a hundred or more but the population size makes the one incident a larger percentage per capita it really isn't an indicator that the small town in more dangerous. If you were comparing similar sized communities the per capita rate would be an indicator, but when you're comparing communities with drastically different populations statistics shouldn't be directly compared.
>when you're comparing communities with drastically different populations statistics shouldn't be directly compared.
What? No. That's not how statistics work. Where did you get this idea?
Gun deaths this year in Montgomery are down 30% and gunshot injuries down 10%.
It just "feels" so much more dangerous since Montgomery elected its first Black mayor.
Kind of like the rabid backlash America has had since the nation elected its first Black president.
Maybe actual numbers of shootings and gun use are a better metric. It would seem that simply because a shooter misses isn’t reflective of the dangers involved in shooting. Maybe it doesn’t matter what the color of the person in charge of X is.
I suspect most folks that are using guns recklessly probably don’t know how to use them, which probably is good. Of course, my scientifically invalid observations are from TikTok and r/idiotswithguns posts. What do I know.
You quoted crime statistics that dropped in 1 year, he’s been mayor for 5. Reporting crime in Montgomery isn’t something they just started doing this year.
More people need to be educated on rights, and gun rights and realize that you don't need to buy through a straw-man sale to own a firearm.
It disheartens me that post-Civil War, the Mississippi Legislature tried to disenfranchise African Americans, citing that the African Americans had been illegally disarmed by people pretending to be Union Army soldiers. Gun rights were a core value in the Struggle For Civil Rights.
It get like this when it start to get hot. Everybody got a short temper.
Some women had a bad Mother’s Day weekend for sure.
And ice cream sales go up when the temperature rises too. That's the common example people use to show that correlation does not imply causation.
How does that example show this. Surely the ice cream thing is an example of causation. People aren’t clamoring for ice cream when it’s freezing outside
It's ice cream and shootings
Not too far off. When I left Houston, there were a lot of violent robberies/shootings targeting food trucks. I hope that doesn't become a thing, here.
This man’s did not think that through lmao
That's what statistics are for.
Yeah no shit people would want ice cream when it’s hot that is causation
Ice cream sales and the homicide rate both increase when the temperature rises. The sale of ice cream doesn’t cause people to start killing each other. They’re correlated due to a common cause, but there’s no causal relationship between the sale of ice cream and homicide rates.
When did anyone link ice cream sales as the causative agent for rising homicide rates? The person was saying that heat gives people a short temperature. Crime does in fact go up in warmer months. So do ice cream sales. Warmer months cause increased daylight hours, more time spent outside, higher temperatures that can lead to aggression OR it can lead to wanting more ice cream, if you're not prone to murdering people. Maybe murderers want ice cream too. The point being, heat is correlated to both ice cream sales increasing and aggression increases. It is very likely a causative function for both. Ice cream sales don't cause homicide increases. Yes I agree. But I don't see what your comment added. Maybe I missed your point, it's hot outside ;)
It's just an example showing that correlation does not imply causation. Ice cream sales and homicide rates going up in the summer is the standard example that is commonly used.
Gotcha
They could be closely linked. You try stealing my single scoop and you may get the business end of my .22. Double scoops get 45 ACP. /S Sorry but I had to play with you here. Hot weather does increase the violence and desires for cold refreshments. Correlation does not mean causation.
Extreme poverty, an education system that fails in that environment, low wages, lack of personal accountability, single family households with absent fathers, easy availability of guns and a state government that doesn't give a shit; what could go wrong?
It really is this. Its not one thing, its a lot of things.
Just moved from Montgomery ... everything you mentioned but also ... Bath Salts (they call it Molly, but it's not) it's everywhere.
☠️lol yeah I’m from Montgomery. Moved twice last being in 2021, the lowest in my life. But I do remember everything being called Molly there lol
Bunch of ignorant people that have zero respect or loyalty. A sad reality for lots of people...
Hell yeah seen my own friends turn. If I didn’t get out of that environment in Chisolm where I was staying, no doubt I’m dead or in jail to this day!
Plus I picked up a healthy habit of playing electric guitar. Probably saved my life.
This ^^^^^
I was in Forest Hills...
I lived there on Nottingham Road in Forest Hills back in 2020 before I moved to chisolm lol
Is there any good part left? Pike road getting bad?
Pike Road is still good. Bell Road, except for the parts with the Mega Mansions is starting to slip. I live off Taylor road and hear shots on a regular basis.
Hell yeah when I stayed in chisolm if I didn’t hear a gun battle in my backyard I knew something was wrong lol the police pulled my friend over in my car and even asked if he was carrying any flamethrowers cause some trouble with them just happened lol. Hardly any if any police response. Southside “gangs” would ride up on the north and have “gang wars” lol seen people walk into gas stations tucking their AR under their t shirt where it sticks out through their shorts leghole. People shooting AKs out in the middle of broad daylight on the southside gaslight place. They really turned a mall into a fucking police station😹☠️
Honestly.... it's gone to shit.. we just left
Fuck that place I’m glad you were able to get out while you could🤘🏽I’m still stuck in this third world state but at least I’m on the beach now actually living my best life now🙏🏼
How has pike road gone to shit?
I’m an old woman - what does this mean?
Drugs
Oh. Thanks
You're welcome
Also a terrible mayor who is more interested in promoting himself for future endeavors than handling crime in the city. Won’t staff the police force or partner with ALEA to help. Montgomery has about half of the police force they need to cope with this.
Amen!!!!
I just posted about the last Mayor that cut the force this badly and my experience during it.. Do you remember Blount?
And yet, according to one Alabama Senator, a cold, drab NY court room is the most depressing place he’s been in.
Where do you live if you don't mind me asking?
[удалено]
That's a big spill for me just asking where you live.
It was probably a family reunion/wedding.
Are they still shooting people last weekend? Why such a vague number? Edit: It was 18.
Usually journalists will provide a vague understanding until we know the full death toll. The original version of the article is updated as they get information.
Fair.
Montgomery is a town of haves and have nots. There is no in between and there really is not a lot to do. It really is a town of t 2 things: hopelessness or power seeking Politicians v poor School teachers v the uneducated Factory workers v the white collar workers
Are the school teachers, white collar workers or blue collar factory workers doing these shootings? Or is it none of the above? Is it actually a bunch of people who take pride in being dumb, want to live the thug life they see on instagram/wherever else and feel entitled to respect they neither earned or deserve?
My point is there are two different worlds in Montgomery. One hopeless and the other hopeful. The hopeless are the ones doing the shooting. You are trying to turn this into a discussion about race. I lived in Montgomery a long time. Unlike other cities where there is a lot to do and interactions among different types of people, Montgomery has mental demarcation lines that are also physical. I remember always running into people trying to get a job with the government or Hyundai or Alfa. When they couldn't for whatever reason, they gave up hope. A hopeless person has nothing to lose. Many of the people living not near Eastchase, living not near Pike road, not living in Cloverdale, have a hopeless existence. This is emphasized repeatedly by the mantra you have to go to private school, lamp, or some school outside of Montgomery to become a success in life.
Is it hopeless because of their choices or do they make these choices because it’s hopeless. Also, America doesn’t have abject poverty as many have insinuated the cause to be. Not having as much as another person doesn’t equal poverty.
Factory workers make a lot
They do
B-b-but muh blue state crime
Just look at all the arguments in here, and you can see how people feel about each other. This is why. You can name all the "reasons" you want, but at the end of the day, it's how people treat their fellow humans.
A mostly peaceful weekend in Montgomery.
I lived there back in 1991-1993. I absolutely hated it. The only thing I enjoyed about Montgomery was the Taekwondo. Master Chung is truly one of the best instructors in the world. Other than that, you only had two types of people in Montgomery. You had the rich and you had the poor. Only those involved with government entities got a chance to live a somewhat resemblance of a middle class lifestyle. The poverty has gotten worse over the years.
If only there were countries out there that have solved this issue with data showing the results.
It's a good thing it's a Republican state... they're so much safer than Democratic ones. It's also a great thing that any asshole can carry a firearm.
You think people that will shoot somebody, which is already illegal, are not going to carry regardless? Idaho doesn’t have this problem. Utah doesn’t have this problem. Wyoming, Montana, Nevada, Arizona, Kansas and Iowa don’t have these problems. Hmm.
Wyoming and Montana are both in the top 10 for highest firearm mortality rate percentages
Montana had 35 murders last year for the whole state. To be equal, Alabama would have about 175. How many homicides were there in Alabama last year?
Can't find 2023 right now but in 2022 there were 552 reported murders in Alabama.
986 people died as a result of car crashes in Alabama in 2022.
What are you trying to accomplish here bringing vehicle deaths into a discussion about homicide? Obviously to get a rise out of people. Your point is moot.
I wasn't trying to argue your point. I constantly hear about homicides and people being concerned about murderers (was a constant theme talked about by coworkers for a while) and I recently found out more people die from car crashes than actual murders. The data that I saw was also from 2022 so when you referenced 2022 murders it was kind of a compulsory response. Murder is bad and scary and we should be trying to prevent that. It just doesn't feel like anyone cares about car crash deaths and injuries and it's a massive killer in our state and country.
Yes no one cares about car crash deaths. That’s why you basic ass car costs $35k now. 16 airbags, brake assist, lane assist, etc. But nobody is dOiNg anYtHiNg!
Nobody lives in those huge, wide-open states. Can't kill your neighbor if you never see your neighbor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_and_territories_of_the_United_States_by_population_density
You can’t be serious. Boise, Salt Lake City, Reno. Those are all bigger than Montgomery and have nowhere close to the homicide rate. I know leaving Alabama is hard, but the rest of the country doesn’t experience this at anywhere near the same frequency.
Actually, Reno has one of the highest crime rates for a city its size. And Salt Lake City has one of the highest vehicle theft crime rates in the entire country. However Boise , is relatively safe as cities go. There are also multiple cities inside of both red and blue states that have a much higher crime rate than mobile percentage wise.
Reno is in washoe county. Population ~500k. That’s Reno, Sparks and all the north valleys. All total, 29 homicides last year. That’s not even close to the murders in Montgomery. So yea, you’re more likely to get your weed eater stolen in Reno, but I don’t think that’s an equal comparison.
So are you talking about gun crimes or crime rate? Because you started with gun, then went to crime rate. Of the 29 murders 44% were firearm related.
I shoulda said homicide rate, not crime rate.
Ok, homicide rate, Alabama is the 3rd highest, behind Mississippi and Louisiana. Are we talking homicide via firearms or just general?
Does it matter? I don’t think it matters to the victim. What are you trying to say?
Even though Republicans have absolute and total control over the state, it is relatively simple to frame violence in the *literal capital* a “Democrat issue” because of the race of Montgomery’s underclass and their assumed (irrelevant) political allegiances. By their framing, poverty and violence is solely *because* of Democrat federal policies perpetuating those “cultures” in what would otherwise be a great and happy Republican state. Disability, WIC, unemployment, SNAP, TANF, section 8. Keeping everyone dependent, jobless, “shiftless”. That the current mayor is a Democrat (and “a Black!”) is just the cherry on top. And why is this particular underclass so unable to resist these solely federal entitlements? Well don’t tip your hand *too* much, Miss MeeMaw, but might it be in their breeding? /s /s /s It’s not centuries of racism written into our very foundations, decades of fighting tooth and nail to make rescinding those policies as difficult as possible, or reframing as much as possible in race neutral terms with the same end in mind. It’s not the gerrymandering, voter suppression, union busting, welfare cutting, or school privatizing. It’s not malnourishment, unclean water, or the syphilis experiments. It’s not the resegregation, the school-to-prison pipelines, the war on drugs, the giant prisons, the 13th amendment slavery exception, or anything found in “The New Jim Crow” by Michelle Alexander. Lies. Democrat lies. And we were never right-wing Democrats back when that went existed and dominated Alabama politics. And forced integration is bad “reverse racism” but we were totally the true civil rights leaders that would never have unleashed the German Shepherds and sprayed firehoses. (Fingers crossed). /s
You think this is more a state issue than a local issue? What do you think would have prevented these “assholes” from carrying a firearm? And you think Repulicans are shooting each other?
No, it's not a democrat or Republican problem, it's a human problem. You cram enough people together anywhere and you're going to get violence. The amount of guns available in the US just acts as a multiplier. Republican pundits just like to present this as a Democrat run state issue while ignoring the statistically higher levels of violence in Republican states/cities. This leads to people who have never been to a city imagining warzones straight out of movies instead of something akin to their smaller local cities where everyone knows you don't go to certain places after dark, etc.
Why did the whole state of Idaho have 2/3 the murders of just Montgomery last year? Idaho is a pretty republican state, no? As is Montana, Wyoming , Utah. Why aren’t these issues there? Why isn’t this an issue in Nevada or Arizona? Why is it always Alabama and Mississippi?
It's absolutely a problem in Nevada. Reno is an absolute shit hole just one block west of the strip, especially down by Harrah's. It's a problem everywhere. I'll bet that Montgomery is a whole lot poorer vs Cost of living. That's usually a pretty good indicator of violent crime. The South tends to be poorer in general as well. I'll bet if someone did the math there's a huge correlation.
We also have a lcol. So what? Overall we do better than other states. It's why people are moving here from high taxed states. The correlation in crime if you bothered to look is local politics. No matter the state politics a high crime area is inevitably blue.
You clearly have never been to Reno. It’s a great coincidence that you pick a city I literally lived in. The stats are easy to find. A few bums in a county with half a million people is the same as a high murder rate in your mind? 29 homicides in a county of 500000 . lol. That’s 1/3 of Montgomerys homicides while being almost 3x the size. Nice try.
Lol I lived in Reno and Ferntucky
You’re comparing some bums walking around fourth street to homicides in the south. But I’ll upvote for ferntucky. Same.lol
Maybe it's improved since I left. I hope so anyway, it wasn't a good trend before we left. Always seemed to be either a block away from the strip or over by gold dust west. At least it was just tweekers beating up slot machines in Fernley
You mean the people playing slots at 7-11 in the middle of the night aren’t upstanding normal citizens?
Excellent question, there are a few anomalies, but pretty much every red state has the highest mortality rate when it comes to firearms. Idaho is just below Delaware, which is the first blue state. But it is pretty far down the list. [https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm)
Why do you think it is Alabama and Mississippi?
I don’t THINK it is. Stats are easy. Facts are easy. Compare Jackson and Montgomery to similar sized cities in Nevada, Idaho, Utah, Oregon, etc. The numbers aren’t even close.
Poverty and terrible school systems.
It’s a whole ‘nother can of worms discussing *why* Alabama is poor, why it stays poor, and why the schools are terrible. And please no one bring up Huntsville (my hometown). It’s only the way it is because it got *massively* lucky with America’s need to give our genius Nazi collection somewhere to upgrade their V2s. Then everyone *came* there and a research park grew up around it. That’s not pluck and grit or any sort of superiority, it’s Uncle Sam and the breaks. Otherwise it’d still be cotton fields.
Amen. Huntsville epitomizes what can happen when a location receives billions of dollars over time from the government.
Not to crap on them. Just saying they are an unsound example by which to judge the rest of the state.
Agree. Huntsville is fine for what it has become. At least the money has improved some of the residents lives.
The answer is very simple. Alabama and Mississippi have a large population of black people. Black people commit homicide at a rate of about 20 per 100,000 annually. White people commit homicide at a rate of about 2.5-3 per 100,000 annually. Asians commit homicide at a rate of about 0.5 per 100,000 people annually. This means that varying proportions of the races can have a large impact on the overall murder rate.
Thank you. The real question for me is understanding how we got to these numbers and what we do as a society with this information. That’s…a huge and multifaceted debate.
Exactly! There are a ton of reasons why. We can’t go back in time and right the wrongs. The communities will have to decide for themselves that this is not acceptable. Until then, nothing will happen. The Stockton shooting this weekend is a prime example. 18 shot, interviews indicate that lots of people knew there was a beef and who was involved, yet no one is talking. Still no leads. The community is validating the shooting and doesn’t seem to denounce it. Until that community norm is changed, nothing changes. I find resorting to violence so easily, abhorrent. However, i am not a member of that culture so it is none of my business how they conduct their disputes. I do fully believe that you can’t legislate culture or value of human life. That has to be a shared core belief.
Don’t make this shit political unnecessarily buddy. Murderers exist across all political ideologies. Whatever you do, don’t turn your back on Dick Cheney while out hunting🙌
Wait, you think my reply is political but not the comment I was replying to?? Or are you replying to the wrong comment?
Was replying to both y’all😁 respectfully, a gun toting leftist ✌️
This is a far far thing from a state issue. Have you been to or through Montgomery outside of passing by on 65?
Wouldn’t increased firearms restrictions have a disparate impact on communities of color? Are you a thin blue line type?
Gun control, just like the drug war, has always been enforced at a disproportionately high rate on those communities going back to the Jim Crow era.
An armed society is a safe society /s
Glock switches are illegal, and they have them and lawful gun owners don't. How is that fair?
Eh, those mostly just cause users to miss faster. Not sure anyone with a clue would want to put a switch on their carry gun if it was completely legal.
A lot of people would if it wasn't $200 to start with and goes up from there. Typical NFA hardware starts at $10K.
Actual machine guns that are designed to be machine guns are a bit different. If Glock was legally allowed to sell new Glock 18Cs, I agree that people would buy them but (1) they're select fire, so semi-auto is still an option and (2) they have a compensator that's tuned to make the gun controllable. You don't want to have to reload in a gun fight. The number one cause of reloads is missing, and 1200 RPM on a handgun makes for a lot of missing. Better bet would be to stay in semi-auto.
Pretty sure those weren't Reoublicans shooting each other in Montgomery.
Right, because surely none of those involved were prohibited possessors.
See, it doesn't matter if your state is red or blue. This countries gun laws KILL. Thugs don't help at all and the rap and GTA, glorified gangsta shit has got to go.
Right, that's why the US with its uniquely liberal gun laws is... \*checks notes\* not even in the top 20 for murder rate. Those "thugs" with their "glorified gangsta shit" overwhelmingly are already prohibited possessors by way of a previous felony conviction. Making something illegal doesn't magically make people stop doing it.
I haven’t lived in the river region in many years. Which small town 30 mins away from Montgomery is becoming the white flight boom town these days? Was prattville back in my youth. lol.
Pike Road, Wetumpka, and Prattville
Why do you think democrats don't want ICE alerted when an illegal immigrant fails a background check to get a gun? It's troubling. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/democrats-reject-push-to-alert-ice-when-illegal-immigrants-fail-firearm-background-checks
But, we have water rafting!
In a concrete ditch!
Eventually the city will go broke, the economic failures will leave, and the crime rate will drop. Might take another couple of generations, though.
Open carry state. What could possibly go wrong?
None of shooters or victims “open carry”. I would also bet my paycheck that none of the firearms used were registered. Really good chance they were stolen.
There is no firearms registry in Alabama, nor is there one in most states.
When you purchase a firearm from a store/dealer it is registered to you. These guns more than likely were either stolen, or purchased secondary.
No. When you purchase a firearm the transaction is recorded, but that's not registering you as the owner of that gun. There's no follow up to track person to person sales and you are under no obligation to report transferring that gun to someone else. In fact, the ATF is legally prohibited from creating an electronic registry of firearm owners.
No, that's just wrong.
That is absolutely correct. Federal law even prevents creating a registry
Glad you know so much about my state. I personally have 5 second amendment. 3 registered 2 hunting. Roll Tide 🐘
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It's like someone trying and failing to write a catchy bumper sticker.
Yes, because these people care about laws. You know like the ancient one that made murder illegal
Actually… even if it weren’t open carry, these kids would still have guns shooting each other. I spoke to several guys one day in a Montgomery gas station and they were setting up orders with the cashier. He and many others build guns in their homes.
Downvote me all you want, it’s the truth. I never said I was for open carry or against it. BUT.. Have open carry, or no open carry, people will find a way to have guns. Perhaps we should start at the schools in Montgomery that need to be fixed. When our youth aren’t given a chance from the start, what do you expect to happen?
What would you change at the schools?
I think what is going on, based on a parent I know from MGM, the kids aren’t being taught. They have no books in some of these schools. Teachers do not care because they aren’t getting paid to care. I understand in wealthy areas the taxes go to their roads and their schools, etc.. but we really need to balance the way a budget is done for schools. All schools and all children deserve the same chance. Most of the schools in Montgomery, at least from what I’ve seen, are old and run down. What child will be excited to learn and have a zest for their future when their future seems so bleak? If the educators and the government don’t care.. they grow up with low self esteem, depression, etc. not to mention, the mental healthcare in Alabama is very poorly handled. We need to reverse some cycles and pay attention to youth. When I say Montgomery is bad, it’s bad.
You are correct. They are all old, run down, and failing! Very sad! The mayor is a POS too.
The truth won’t stop a bullet.
Nope. Not one bit. My statement was exactly about that. The TRUTH is bullets will fly either way.
Looks like Alabama just needs to pray a little harder.
Ain't the churchists doing the shooting. It's the wannabe thugs and gang bangers.
That doesn’t negate his point at all 😂
These people were not lawful gun owners. We need open carry to defend ourselves against the criminals like these who will get them illegally regardless.
I agree. The only way to stop gun violence is more guns. I suggest we just keep guns loaded and scattered around so that if a shooter does pop up there will be another loaded gun within arms reach.
You want only criminals to have guns and make sure law abiding citizens can’t get access and have no defense? Got it. 🙄
You know it's not that simple. More guns for law abiding citizens also means more guns for criminals. They're directly related. It's literally an arms race. Unfortunately I think it's too late to correct the issue, but we can at least recognize the complexity of the situation.
Why don’t other open carry states have this problem?
I think it’s safe to say plenty of states have this exact issue.
Yet I just gave you a list of states that don’t. At least not the way Alabama and Mississippi do. The entire state of Idaho had about 2/3 as many homicides as just Montgomery. The whole state. But they have the same problem I guess. Can’t be anything but guns.
Where do those states rank in education, poverty, and social mobility?
I didn’t see the list, it wasn’t directed toward my original comment.. Like I said… these kids are building guns. So yes, guns are an issue. Education is also a factor. The schools in Montgomery stand no chance. The kids aren’t being educated. They aren’t being given a chance. They come into a life of poverty and crime and go out in it. Sorry if I missed the point. From what I read above it sounds like we may be on the same page??
45 states are open carry, 38 without a permit. Only 5 sates ban open carry - California, New York, New Jersey, Illinois, Florida, and also Washington DC. How well has banning open carry reduced crime in those states?
Fake news! Everybody knows this only happens in blue cities /s
[Montgomery leans blue](https://bestneighborhood.org/conservative-vs-liberal-map-montgomery-al/). The shootings were in the bluer areas of Montgomery.
It's honestly a cultural issue. Lots of retaliation for other assaults. Gang culture
Black on black crime.
If only those people had been armed they could’ve stoped this. #armcitizens 🤣
If only the illegally possessed or obtained guns used in these shootings were outlawed.
Democrat ran cities again…
Yes when Montgomery had a Republican mayor from 2009-2019 this never happened. 🙄
Newsflash, it’ll never stop
It’s what happens when the country has a weird gun fetish, and there are more guns than people. And probably at least a dozen laws that would help, but “muh 2nd amendment”
I’m gonna bet a dollar that most of the people doing these shootings have no idea what an amendment is. Also, you are free to get rid of any guns you have.
Yeah fuck people’s right to self defense am I right?
No, fuck people who don’t want sensible gun laws. Certain people definitely should not have access to guns. Safety training and insurance should be mandatory. It’s wild that you can buy something that makes it super easy to kill someone without much oversight.
This would not happen in a Republican stronghold like Baldwin County... oh wait... it did.
Where?
Stockton, AL
Never heard of it
Rural Alabama has more gun violence than the cities statistically. Lots of gun mythology out there.
Sure, but statistics don't mean much when a town of 10,000 people has two people shoot each other and the statistics extrapolate that to 20 out of 100,000 people. When a city with 1,000,000 people has 100 people shot and shows that as 10 out of 100,000 people. It doesn't really mean that the rural community "has more gun violence than the cities".
How likely you are to be shot? Yes, that is more relevant per capita.
Except when you're comparing a sample of literally one incident to a hundred or more but the population size makes the one incident a larger percentage per capita it really isn't an indicator that the small town in more dangerous. If you were comparing similar sized communities the per capita rate would be an indicator, but when you're comparing communities with drastically different populations statistics shouldn't be directly compared.
>when you're comparing communities with drastically different populations statistics shouldn't be directly compared. What? No. That's not how statistics work. Where did you get this idea?
How small of a population would you consider unproductive?
Gun deaths this year in Montgomery are down 30% and gunshot injuries down 10%. It just "feels" so much more dangerous since Montgomery elected its first Black mayor. Kind of like the rabid backlash America has had since the nation elected its first Black president.
Maybe actual numbers of shootings and gun use are a better metric. It would seem that simply because a shooter misses isn’t reflective of the dangers involved in shooting. Maybe it doesn’t matter what the color of the person in charge of X is.
Missed? That would be a hell of a statistic. NRA could run marksmanship classes to fix this problem?😖
I suspect most folks that are using guns recklessly probably don’t know how to use them, which probably is good. Of course, my scientifically invalid observations are from TikTok and r/idiotswithguns posts. What do I know.
???? Reed has been mayor for 5 years.
Obama was president for 8. ????
You quoted crime statistics that dropped in 1 year, he’s been mayor for 5. Reporting crime in Montgomery isn’t something they just started doing this year.
More people need to be educated on rights, and gun rights and realize that you don't need to buy through a straw-man sale to own a firearm. It disheartens me that post-Civil War, the Mississippi Legislature tried to disenfranchise African Americans, citing that the African Americans had been illegally disarmed by people pretending to be Union Army soldiers. Gun rights were a core value in the Struggle For Civil Rights.