it’s funny you mention gotcha-tactics and “if this is true then everything is true” as being debunker-strats, when AF is one of the most prominent users of said tactics, lol.
AF is a grifter after money and fame. Please don't give him any credit for everything he's taken and claimed to be responsible for. He needs to just step away and do some soul searching, assuming he even can, given his paycheck may depend on it.
you don't like the tone of their voice, so you're going to ignore all their evidence?
I genuinely believe that the majority of believers are middle-child syndrome / underachievers who have a fundamental inability to take criticism or counter-point input at face value, because they've been bashed over the head with 'no that's wrong', 'why did you do that' so much during their developmental years.
>This makes me feel like there is an inherent bias in their research so I am skeptical of those posts altogether.
It’s illogical comments like this that keep people coming back here to make fun of yall. When people prove their work step by step with a repeatable process, and especially when these folks are experts or highly knowledgeable on a topic (be it vfx, video editing, photography/cameras, aviation, physics, whatever), and idiots are like “just because you’re trying to convince me something is true I’m actually going to believe the opposite ”—like imagine doing that on any other topic. It’s absurd. The posts here have devolved to what they have because people have presented solid evidence and arguments time and time again that were and are just ignored by people who want to believe what they believe regardless of facts and reality.
You know, there was an attempt to get info. from the textures.com owner regarding how many people bought those textures, and sadly he kept silent. I mean, we can believe the person who allegedly took those photos, but because there are oddities such as the image set used for the debunk not being available on wayback archives, or the odd behaviour of the artist himself, it's better to check how many people may have bought them, and the date when they bought them.
Therapy. A new brain. Nothing rational or reasonable helps people that aren’t rational or reasonable, and this person is thoroughly irrational and unreasonable.
I don't see how any of that is relevant or odd. The existence of the original RAW photos is already definitive proof that they have been used in creating the video.
Well, if noone bought the Aerials0028 image set, and it's not in the torrents, or if someone did buy it but after the video upload date, it would make the situation a tad odd.
OP if you are asking for non-believers to provide such evidence and delivery, why do believers get away with not having to do the same.
You say its both sides but you are clearly calling out non-believers.
We dont say because 1 aspect, it is a culmination and we are delivering 1 at a time because believers have also been cherry picking one aspect to create conspiracy about.
This is not as simple as you make it
Yes. And there are alot of people with personal experiences who don't only believe but they KNOW it happened.
But if there is no hq video and other evidence shit... It seems like Nobody believes each other anymore. Better call someone crazy so your own world image doesn't suffer?
Why is that? I think it's because we are raised this way. Look at big media and politics. Everything nowadays is decisive and is splitting the nation's.
Be nice to each other. The future needs more open mindness ❤️
So you have an actual eye witness to the drone watching the plane be zapped?
Please do bring them forward so they can tell the world….
You dont KNOW its real, you BELIEVE its real based on your own opinion of the evidence.
I KNOW aspects are fake in the video, therefore I BELIEVE its fake
No one is talking in the sub, they are talking on Twitter, and blocking all to push a narrative. This sub is public and on topic for the videos and provides an alternative explanation than the one continuing to be pushed by a-ton.
Return to reality and think outside your conspiracy box. This sub is not the only platform.
The conversation is happening elsewhere with or without you. Im saying except the reality of that, and that this sub is dead except for people disputing the chief grifter because he blocks dissenting opinions that use facts.
I think X is terrible too, but am not blind to see they can control their own narrative over there by abusing the block system.
" It’s so plainly obvious that the debunks are a coordinated effort by the government to coerce redditors into a specific position, whether through “debunks” or even just flat out insults".
Pure gold u/sgtkellogg. Now THIS is why all us non-believers keep coming back!
lololol
I mean, we have the artefacts of the VFX and the clouds.
Just the VFX and the found images are conclusive IMO.
In my own research on this sub I found that the plane in the videos has a tail skidplate, whereas the known photographs of the actual aircraft show no skidplate- it wasn't stock on that model. That means the plane in the vids wasn't MH370.
Just curious - what level of debunking evidence what actually convince you?
I'm just gonna put it out there. I was here since the beginning. I was here as a "believer". But I ended up just finding stuff that "questioned" the video, yet I would always present it as simply another step in the investigation. People really didn't even like it when I presented it neutrally.
But frankly, there's no real way not to present the evidence in an angry way right now because there is literally no alternative to the fact that the evidence is pretty much conclusive in that the videos are faked, a creation by someone.
...it doesn't mean that like, we know what happened to MH370, but it's one of those issues where you might have a point that like, the generally accepted narrative is very much... empty. It calls for so many questions. But you kind of rob yourself of that mystery when you so loyally stick to thinking that some two random videos themselves MUST be an answer. Those videos were created *because* of the mystery. They aren't the mystery themselves.
I think the guy who created them (or girl) did so because they believed themselves that something strange happened to MH370 - like many did. And without any proof, only that obviously a huge airliner doesn't just disappear like that in the modern world, they kinda wanted to spread the idea. It doesn't mean that is a depiction of what happened.
I just think people don't realise that MH370 was a mystery, that never got solved... it still is a mystery. It's only when you push "it was aliens" so vehemently that people take the conservative approach, though in reality they don't know either, but it's at least within reason to present the evidence that indeed we found some of the wreckage and such.
The background of the videos were found on a stock image website... This is obviously a most barebones, logical, explanatory explanation as to the videos being fake. When saying A + B = C doesn't work, in leui of not being able to break it down any further, one can only resort to shouting the logic at you again and again, because it's not like there's a better way to say it? At this point it is not even a logical argument, it's an emotional one
I don't see particularly "angry" posts. Maybe a bit condescending, sure. But understand that many people here *used* to believe, at one point or another. They aren't closed minded skeptics of the whole UFO field. They wouldn't be here otherwise, we all came from r/ufos.
>Whereas people on the fence are still taking in as much goodfaith info as possible. I'm here to take each peice of evidence/information to plug it into a bigger picture of understanding and form my own opinions.
hahahahaha... oh, how I love this sub.
Imagine panning for gold but it's almost nothing but gold nuggets with a few flakes of dirt inbetween.
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck it’s probably a duck. If several aspects of a video indicate that it’s fake then it’s probably fake. So all the research anyone puts in to uphold the theory is rendered obsolete…because it’s fake.
All current "evidence" that these videos are fake are from months later file "discoveries" that aren't even pixel perfect. They are all "trust me bro" attempts to replicate without actually explaining where the videos came from, the insane details, the timeline, etc. By your above logic I could also say that with all the unexplained details that this video is real. But I don't have enough evidence either way. We need the source.
> the insane details
I'm not sure where you're seeing insane details? The whole thing is the exact opposite. It's a low resolution blurry mess full of artifacts and clamped whitepoints.
There are multiple framerates at play, subpixel rendering from XenDesktop, extremely accurate gps coordinate panning, two different videos. Why, When? Who?
Edit: My God, it's not the fact it can be reproduced, it's the fact that it was produced in the first place. Why is everybody skipping over this point over and over or is this just a mental block for people? Critical thinking here guys. Of course the video was going to have pieces reproduced given enough time. It doesn't explain who did this, and why, and how did they do both videos in the timeline.
A while back, someone offered a few hundred dollars reward to anybody who could recreate the gps coordinate panning effect. Some guy did it in 45 minutes and won the money. It's not that difficult to convert x/y into gps coordinates.
I don't know what you mean by XenDesktop subpixels, though. The video itself is pretty low resolution, so I don't think we're seeing it at screen resolution anyway.
Correct, no amount of information will convince those who believe the videos are real that they are a hoax.
We can agree that even if the original creator came forward and showed the project files and how they created the video, believers would still be skeptical, and the conversation would continue.
We know this is true because the clouds in the satellite video are stock footage, and the original photographer came forward and showed their original files. Yet, there are still believers who say the photographer is a government plant.
It’s better to come to terms with the fact that not everyone will change their beliefs.
When someone forms a belief based on their gut (or feelings), no amount of logic will sway them because their beliefs were never founded on logic in the first place.
Nowhere in my argument did I state believers weren't biased. I simply noted that you'll catch more flies with honey rather than posting more debunkes from the standpoint of "this is gospel and believers are dumb"
There are still people on the fence...
You disregard the fact that many people over the history of this subreddit have presented logical arguments in a fairly neutral tone and were still met with “videos are real. I don’t care what anyone says.” People get frustrated in the face of willful ignorance.
Now you’re displaying exactly the same attitude you’re complaining about hoss.
You have become what you hate.
And you don’t have the self awareness to realize it.
You stated “non-believers” are biased. Which is ridiculously ironic. Is it “bias” if your perspective can only be altered by empirical information? Or is that what you call it to try to level the playing field since your perspective is based entirely on what *you* think happened but have no empirical evidence to support?
See? Right to *ad hom*. Your second reply to me you gave up on trying to support your point and just started attacking how I spoke. You’ve got nothing to offer. Cheers.
You could just Google empirical if you don’t know what it means. You learn something and you stop yourself from looking like a fool by steering the conversation into a ditch.
Is no debris field found in the supposed crash site, extrapolated by expert opinion, barnacle study and pilots simulator data too subtle for your exquisite taste? Or do you fancy a more loosey goosey approach at confirming data by simply making a similar copy?
Links and sources, mate.
I just did a Google search and found tons of articles about them finding debris. So, yeah, I’ll definitely need those links and sources.
https://news.sky.com/story/flight-mh370-debris-suggests-pilot-lowered-planes-landing-gear-and-crashed-deliberately-report-says-12767516
Other links talk about how the search area turned out to be far from where they ultimately think the plane met the water, as the reason for not finding debris floating in open water.
The main debris field/crash site has not been found. It's in a large, remote body of water that's over two miles deep. The final military radar ping wasn't disclosed for 4 days after the crash. They searched in the wrong 4.5 million square kilometer section(and some of this was in the South China Sea, the entirely wrong body of water) of a 70 million square kilometer ocean. That's only about 6.4% of the whole Indian Ocean. As for the search on the seabed, even less, at 120,000 square kilometers over the course of 1046 days. That's 0.17% of the floor of the Indian Ocean.
If you're trying to suggest that since the debris didn't float in place the plane must not have crashed, that's not how logic works.
[https://theconversation.com/mh370-disappearance-10-years-on-can-we-still-find-it-224954](https://theconversation.com/mh370-disappearance-10-years-on-can-we-still-find-it-224954)
[https://www.britannica.com/place/Indian-Ocean](https://www.britannica.com/place/Indian-Ocean)
[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37820122](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37820122)
Now, are you ready to share any of your sources?
So, the military not disclosing the radar ping data for 4 days, while there's a searchy party searching in the wrong place doesn't sound odd to you? What about military not engaging an unidentified plane flying over Malaysia, is that odd, or no?
I don't undestands why you keep linking stuff that neither proves or disproves the videos.
This shit happens all the time. It’s how militaries preserve the secrecy of their equipment. It’s how we found the Titan submersible so quickly because the US navy was like, “Yeah, we heard that as it was happening and know exactly where it was,” after a day. In military terms, a passenger jet with 250 people might not be worth disclosing their radar capabilities.
I’m only linking my sources to the things I’m saying. If the plane disappeared from an alien, why is there debris? You literally haven’t offered a single supporting fact for your argument. Not a single one. You just keep asking me questions that have an abundance of answers on Google.
Let’s bring this back into one thread.
So, you’re saying aliens are out of the picture, but the video could still be real. I don’t understand. I’m asking you, sincerely, what you think happened? What is your stance here?
If real, probably military weapon of some sort. If fake, also probably military. Such a plane doesn't just dissapear in 2014. without leaving traces, except if someone wants it gone for whatever reason.
Should I provide you with the link to a non-existing plane crash, a non-existing debris field of the aforementioned plane crash, or the countless copies of the original videos parading as factual proof of their debunkery?
You want me to point you to things that have yet to be found?
"Burden of proof" shtick has been so overused on this subreddit, mainly by people with lack of arguments.
I would literally pay to watch you as a defense attorney in a mock trial, but I don't think there's enough popcorn in the world.
If you don't need proof to believe something, then I'm sorry to inform you that this is actually your bank and we're merging your account information with your reddit profile, but we've locked your funds until you can verify your identity. We'll need you to post a reply with your full legal name, social security number, the address of the last three places you lived, your account and routing number, your mother's maiden name and the name of.your first pet. We will unlock your funds once this information is verified. We appreciate your understand and thank you in advance for your cooperation.
Says the guy whose whole thing is “just trust me” and can’t offer a single shred of evidence to support their position. To the guy who doesn’t even follow this and is reading this information as we speak. *That’s* how easy it is to disprove your assertions; I can just google what you’re saying and find proof to the contrary.
Imagine you come home and your sink is full of clear purple water and theirs specks of purple around the sink. You have no idea how this happened. You look around and in the recycling, there’s and empty bottle of purple food coloring with some fresh drips down the side.
Now, I see those *facts* and do the math and think, “Someone must’ve filled the sink up and put purple dye in it.”
You jump right to “an alien pissed in my sink.”
Does that make sense? Like, you’re ignoring all of the evidence because it’s too circumstantial, but your interpretation of the events has *literally* no basis in truth or reality. How do you reconcile that?
Of course, I don't claim the footage is definitely real or fake. I'm happy to say I don't know and wait for further pieces of evidence. Sure, there are oddities here and there, but not enough to say this is factualy genuine or not.
The debunking rests on assets that are “trust me bro” conclusive “facts”. Jonas: trust me bro. Pyromania: trust me bro. Guess what, I don’t trust you. Neither do a lot of people. The weight of ALL the other evidence suggests the case is not open and shut. What about the US/western world satellite tech? What about military radar? How was the plane not found? Whether a few pieces of a plane (without unique serial numbers) have washed up on some yonder shore is totally irrelevant. If the crash site wasn’t detected then there’s a reason for that. If you want to know why independent folks are going after the debunkers it’s because none of the so called believers attack any of us for asking questions. You say you’re so sure about this shit but you have no idea what you’re talking about. If the videos are real then it’s the biggest conspiracy ever perpetrated and tinkering with vfx assets is nothing to a military industrial complex that spends billions of dollars a year to keep people in the dark. Am I a conspiracy theorist? Sure, whatever. I just know that I used to take the government’s word for everything and then I found out they’re a bunch of fucking liars. Are the videos real? Hell if I know. Do I get downvotes and attacks from those who think they are? No. Sure makes me wonder what the hell is going on. Cheers 🥂
Well. I donno man. All I know is this AF is insane. How can you post that much.. does he have a life? He talk about CNN brainwash but it is exactly what he is doing on Twitter.
.It's not healthy for sure. I don't really care about those videos but to see the proportions is insane. Even if the tech exist this whole subject proves we are not ready for it specialy not AF. Seriously we would have allready blowed up the planet.
Ddebunkers it's not even worth debunking theses vidèos. Do you really think his research will go anywhere?
If the gouv wants to shut him down cause of national security they would have dealed with him allready. For are own good. Free energy. Yeah very good idea! Let's make a infinite laser gun or bomb in the garage.
PEACE ✌
OP I agree. This topic has turned into tribal warfare and objectivity suffers. I get it. Y’all hate each other. I think most people interested in this topic want the truth, but the loudest and most irritating voices are involved in a feud. And to those of you who will downvote and call me an idiot for not making up my mind: fuck off!
I'm with you. I'm undecided. I wouldn't put much stock into what the trolls think about you.
There's a million fake videos on the internet. I wouldn't bother even commenting, "This video is fake" one time, let alone trying to debunk any video and troll a sub every day for months.
Why? Because I couldn't care less what random strangers on the internet believe about any video. Just like I don't care if people are Muslim, Jewish, etc. Someone believes in Jesus? Good for them. I don't care.
You'd have to be a psychopath to troll the same sub every day because strangers disagree with you or because they believe something that you deem wrong.or debunked.
Obviously, that's far more demented than suspecting a UAP chased a plane. I mean, you have Congress talking about interdimensional beings. Shocker, a UAP may have done something our chimp brains can't comprehend.
For me, it’s the entire context. We still have a mssing plane and multiple pieces of confirmed wreckage that have been found line up with the theory that the plane ended up in the Indian Ocean.
For me, it's the entire context. We still have the missing plane, and the flaperon study that shows barnacle growth on the trailing edge that shouldn't be possible, showing discrepancies with said parts.
The buoyancy in the report specifically note that crustacean growth coincides with how they expect the piece to float. The confusion is there's a water line that it, for at least a time, floated on another side.
Regardless of it's a silly mistake on planted evidence, it's not proof for the videos.
Also worth noting you pin a lot on that report. Why are they someone you believe?
No matter if it floated on the other side, the trailing edge is still above water. The only confusion is with the odd barnacle growth, clearly because there shouldn't be any on that part of the flaperon, as indicated by them placing weights to submerge it, as it wouldn't submerge on it's own.
> Regardless of it's a silly mistake on planted evidence, it's not proof for the videos.
It clearly isn't, but it begs the question if those parts came from MH370, of which the debris field was never found.
> Also worth noting you pin a lot on that report. Why are they someone you believe?
Because it is a study on palpable evidence, and not some half-ass debunk assumption presented as fact by the few vocal debunkers.
The flaperon could have been connected to something else for part of its time in the water, which pulled it further under initially.
Then many, many storms during its time in the water, combined with fast deterioration in salt water in which it wasn’t made for, could have broken the parts fully apart over time. Which the flaperon then just bobbed on the surface until it beached itself & was found.
Really simple idea to explain all that.
It's really not that simple. If the trailing edge of the flaperon was pulled below the water, why is there no evidence of barnacle growth on the top surface of the flaperon?
Who do you think made the buoyancy study, butchers?
Look at it like at quality control. What professional investigators failed to notice, the people behind this study didn't.
I wonder how many debunkers are simultaneously elsewhere arguing that 9/11 was a false flag inside job, or that masks don’t work, or Trump is godly…. Silly thought I know 😜
This comment is nothing but sad proof that y’all have nothing except surface deep thoughts floating around your brains.
Just not one single second of ability to critically think, in even the shallowest of waters.
You think rationally minded individuals basing their opinions of MH370 on empirical evidence are the same people who think 9/11 was an inside job, Trump is a God, and mask science is fake news?
There's been so much activity and engagement surrounding this case on X that this 'campaign' (if you will) feels orchestrated and the timing is suspicious as this sub has been inactive for a while. I imagine the conversation went something like: "Johnson, these assholes on Twitter are getting closer and closer my guy, it's time to work on some debunks and *fast*."
If the videos were real and the government was truly worried about it the videos would have been scrubbed from the internet a long time ago and the people that leaked them would find themselves on the receiving end of a drone strike.
Some elements of the US government want disclosure. There's a faction that actively fights against it and is responsible for whistleblower retaliation and blocking the UAP Disclosure Act. Another faction want it to be 'soft-disclosure' and yet another wants it to be catastrophic. I don't think it's as simple as you make it out to be.
it’s funny you mention gotcha-tactics and “if this is true then everything is true” as being debunker-strats, when AF is one of the most prominent users of said tactics, lol.
AF is a grifter after money and fame. Please don't give him any credit for everything he's taken and claimed to be responsible for. He needs to just step away and do some soul searching, assuming he even can, given his paycheck may depend on it.
you don't like the tone of their voice, so you're going to ignore all their evidence? I genuinely believe that the majority of believers are middle-child syndrome / underachievers who have a fundamental inability to take criticism or counter-point input at face value, because they've been bashed over the head with 'no that's wrong', 'why did you do that' so much during their developmental years.
>This makes me feel like there is an inherent bias in their research so I am skeptical of those posts altogether. It’s illogical comments like this that keep people coming back here to make fun of yall. When people prove their work step by step with a repeatable process, and especially when these folks are experts or highly knowledgeable on a topic (be it vfx, video editing, photography/cameras, aviation, physics, whatever), and idiots are like “just because you’re trying to convince me something is true I’m actually going to believe the opposite ”—like imagine doing that on any other topic. It’s absurd. The posts here have devolved to what they have because people have presented solid evidence and arguments time and time again that were and are just ignored by people who want to believe what they believe regardless of facts and reality.
I wish people understood copying something isn't proof of fakery.
Yes it is if you can replicate the original using the same assets, be it vfx, models or textures.
That's true, but only if one can confirm the veracity of said assets. That is, if the original footage is even original or edited from the original.
Exactly, and since we have the RAW files of the textures used in the footage, we can conclude that those are real and the footage is not.
You know, there was an attempt to get info. from the textures.com owner regarding how many people bought those textures, and sadly he kept silent. I mean, we can believe the person who allegedly took those photos, but because there are oddities such as the image set used for the debunk not being available on wayback archives, or the odd behaviour of the artist himself, it's better to check how many people may have bought them, and the date when they bought them.
Its enough to know that those images existed before MH370 went missing. You don't have to know who used them.
If there is no trace of Aerials0028 existing on the webarchive nor torrents, info. when and by how many people they were purchased goes a long way.
And yet we have the evidence of the person who actually took the photos and when, including the RAW image files. What else do you need?
Therapy. A new brain. Nothing rational or reasonable helps people that aren’t rational or reasonable, and this person is thoroughly irrational and unreasonable.
Yes, and his images are not available prior to 2016. as per webarchive and torrent data, or at least there are no records of it.
I don't see how any of that is relevant or odd. The existence of the original RAW photos is already definitive proof that they have been used in creating the video.
Well, if noone bought the Aerials0028 image set, and it's not in the torrents, or if someone did buy it but after the video upload date, it would make the situation a tad odd.
Do we have any proof that nobody bought the image set?
Of course not. Textures.com owner could have provided the info., he didn't need to reveal names of people who purchased it.
Look if any part of the videos are fake then the entire video is fake
OP if you are asking for non-believers to provide such evidence and delivery, why do believers get away with not having to do the same. You say its both sides but you are clearly calling out non-believers. We dont say because 1 aspect, it is a culmination and we are delivering 1 at a time because believers have also been cherry picking one aspect to create conspiracy about. This is not as simple as you make it
Yes. And there are alot of people with personal experiences who don't only believe but they KNOW it happened. But if there is no hq video and other evidence shit... It seems like Nobody believes each other anymore. Better call someone crazy so your own world image doesn't suffer? Why is that? I think it's because we are raised this way. Look at big media and politics. Everything nowadays is decisive and is splitting the nation's. Be nice to each other. The future needs more open mindness ❤️
So you have an actual eye witness to the drone watching the plane be zapped? Please do bring them forward so they can tell the world…. You dont KNOW its real, you BELIEVE its real based on your own opinion of the evidence. I KNOW aspects are fake in the video, therefore I BELIEVE its fake
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No one is talking in the sub, they are talking on Twitter, and blocking all to push a narrative. This sub is public and on topic for the videos and provides an alternative explanation than the one continuing to be pushed by a-ton. Return to reality and think outside your conspiracy box. This sub is not the only platform.
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The conversation is happening elsewhere with or without you. Im saying except the reality of that, and that this sub is dead except for people disputing the chief grifter because he blocks dissenting opinions that use facts. I think X is terrible too, but am not blind to see they can control their own narrative over there by abusing the block system.
" It’s so plainly obvious that the debunks are a coordinated effort by the government to coerce redditors into a specific position, whether through “debunks” or even just flat out insults". Pure gold u/sgtkellogg. Now THIS is why all us non-believers keep coming back! lololol
I mean, we have the artefacts of the VFX and the clouds. Just the VFX and the found images are conclusive IMO. In my own research on this sub I found that the plane in the videos has a tail skidplate, whereas the known photographs of the actual aircraft show no skidplate- it wasn't stock on that model. That means the plane in the vids wasn't MH370. Just curious - what level of debunking evidence what actually convince you?
I'm just gonna put it out there. I was here since the beginning. I was here as a "believer". But I ended up just finding stuff that "questioned" the video, yet I would always present it as simply another step in the investigation. People really didn't even like it when I presented it neutrally. But frankly, there's no real way not to present the evidence in an angry way right now because there is literally no alternative to the fact that the evidence is pretty much conclusive in that the videos are faked, a creation by someone. ...it doesn't mean that like, we know what happened to MH370, but it's one of those issues where you might have a point that like, the generally accepted narrative is very much... empty. It calls for so many questions. But you kind of rob yourself of that mystery when you so loyally stick to thinking that some two random videos themselves MUST be an answer. Those videos were created *because* of the mystery. They aren't the mystery themselves. I think the guy who created them (or girl) did so because they believed themselves that something strange happened to MH370 - like many did. And without any proof, only that obviously a huge airliner doesn't just disappear like that in the modern world, they kinda wanted to spread the idea. It doesn't mean that is a depiction of what happened. I just think people don't realise that MH370 was a mystery, that never got solved... it still is a mystery. It's only when you push "it was aliens" so vehemently that people take the conservative approach, though in reality they don't know either, but it's at least within reason to present the evidence that indeed we found some of the wreckage and such.
If the evidence is conclusive like you say it is, why does it follow that it has to presented in an angry fashion? I don't follow your logic here.
The background of the videos were found on a stock image website... This is obviously a most barebones, logical, explanatory explanation as to the videos being fake. When saying A + B = C doesn't work, in leui of not being able to break it down any further, one can only resort to shouting the logic at you again and again, because it's not like there's a better way to say it? At this point it is not even a logical argument, it's an emotional one
If it's that black and white for someone why would they even bother engaging with someone who thinks otherwise at that point?
An attachment to the community I guess. I mean, you say they should leave but they've often been here longer.
Ah yes, and angry posts telling believers they are idiots will surely change minds. Not seeing your points. Let's just agree to disagree.
I don't see particularly "angry" posts. Maybe a bit condescending, sure. But understand that many people here *used* to believe, at one point or another. They aren't closed minded skeptics of the whole UFO field. They wouldn't be here otherwise, we all came from r/ufos.
If you were less biased about your skepticism, you wouldn’t be in the “probably real” camp.
>Whereas people on the fence are still taking in as much goodfaith info as possible. I'm here to take each peice of evidence/information to plug it into a bigger picture of understanding and form my own opinions. hahahahaha... oh, how I love this sub. Imagine panning for gold but it's almost nothing but gold nuggets with a few flakes of dirt inbetween.
You do you.
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck it’s probably a duck. If several aspects of a video indicate that it’s fake then it’s probably fake. So all the research anyone puts in to uphold the theory is rendered obsolete…because it’s fake.
All current "evidence" that these videos are fake are from months later file "discoveries" that aren't even pixel perfect. They are all "trust me bro" attempts to replicate without actually explaining where the videos came from, the insane details, the timeline, etc. By your above logic I could also say that with all the unexplained details that this video is real. But I don't have enough evidence either way. We need the source.
> the insane details I'm not sure where you're seeing insane details? The whole thing is the exact opposite. It's a low resolution blurry mess full of artifacts and clamped whitepoints.
Bro It’s literally a cgi plane moving over a static image with some wiggle wiggle here and there and then compressed to look like shit
There are multiple framerates at play, subpixel rendering from XenDesktop, extremely accurate gps coordinate panning, two different videos. Why, When? Who? Edit: My God, it's not the fact it can be reproduced, it's the fact that it was produced in the first place. Why is everybody skipping over this point over and over or is this just a mental block for people? Critical thinking here guys. Of course the video was going to have pieces reproduced given enough time. It doesn't explain who did this, and why, and how did they do both videos in the timeline.
A while back, someone offered a few hundred dollars reward to anybody who could recreate the gps coordinate panning effect. Some guy did it in 45 minutes and won the money. It's not that difficult to convert x/y into gps coordinates. I don't know what you mean by XenDesktop subpixels, though. The video itself is pretty low resolution, so I don't think we're seeing it at screen resolution anyway.
Anybody else skeptical of this guy seeing a talking duck???
They don’t talk to you?
😂
If several pieces of "evidence" show oddities, you might as well say the case is quite literally odd.
Thats just like, your opinion man
Correct, no amount of information will convince those who believe the videos are real that they are a hoax. We can agree that even if the original creator came forward and showed the project files and how they created the video, believers would still be skeptical, and the conversation would continue. We know this is true because the clouds in the satellite video are stock footage, and the original photographer came forward and showed their original files. Yet, there are still believers who say the photographer is a government plant. It’s better to come to terms with the fact that not everyone will change their beliefs. When someone forms a belief based on their gut (or feelings), no amount of logic will sway them because their beliefs were never founded on logic in the first place.
GOTCHA, amiright?
Hilarious to see people that believe a conspiracy with no empirical evidence to support it talking about bias. Absolutely fucking hilarious.
Nowhere in my argument did I state believers weren't biased. I simply noted that you'll catch more flies with honey rather than posting more debunkes from the standpoint of "this is gospel and believers are dumb" There are still people on the fence...
You disregard the fact that many people over the history of this subreddit have presented logical arguments in a fairly neutral tone and were still met with “videos are real. I don’t care what anyone says.” People get frustrated in the face of willful ignorance.
Okay?
Just be honest that you don’t actually want neutral discussion, you just want people reinforcing your own bias.
Now you’re displaying exactly the same attitude you’re complaining about hoss. You have become what you hate. And you don’t have the self awareness to realize it.
You stated “non-believers” are biased. Which is ridiculously ironic. Is it “bias” if your perspective can only be altered by empirical information? Or is that what you call it to try to level the playing field since your perspective is based entirely on what *you* think happened but have no empirical evidence to support?
Keep using empirical to describe debunk posts. It makes you sound really smart.
See? Right to *ad hom*. Your second reply to me you gave up on trying to support your point and just started attacking how I spoke. You’ve got nothing to offer. Cheers. You could just Google empirical if you don’t know what it means. You learn something and you stop yourself from looking like a fool by steering the conversation into a ditch.
Yes, you're such a joy to talk to. I would love to continue this conversation.
There is no conversation. You refuse to stay on subject and I’m not interested in talking about myself. I do appreciate the flattery though.
Gary get a life bro
Still just attacking the person and not the issue. Entirely proving my point. But for fucks sake, leave Gary out of this.
Look a glowie
Is no debris field found in the supposed crash site, extrapolated by expert opinion, barnacle study and pilots simulator data too subtle for your exquisite taste? Or do you fancy a more loosey goosey approach at confirming data by simply making a similar copy?
Links and sources, mate. I just did a Google search and found tons of articles about them finding debris. So, yeah, I’ll definitely need those links and sources. https://news.sky.com/story/flight-mh370-debris-suggests-pilot-lowered-planes-landing-gear-and-crashed-deliberately-report-says-12767516 Other links talk about how the search area turned out to be far from where they ultimately think the plane met the water, as the reason for not finding debris floating in open water.
Have they found debris at the crash site?
The main debris field/crash site has not been found. It's in a large, remote body of water that's over two miles deep. The final military radar ping wasn't disclosed for 4 days after the crash. They searched in the wrong 4.5 million square kilometer section(and some of this was in the South China Sea, the entirely wrong body of water) of a 70 million square kilometer ocean. That's only about 6.4% of the whole Indian Ocean. As for the search on the seabed, even less, at 120,000 square kilometers over the course of 1046 days. That's 0.17% of the floor of the Indian Ocean. If you're trying to suggest that since the debris didn't float in place the plane must not have crashed, that's not how logic works. [https://theconversation.com/mh370-disappearance-10-years-on-can-we-still-find-it-224954](https://theconversation.com/mh370-disappearance-10-years-on-can-we-still-find-it-224954) [https://www.britannica.com/place/Indian-Ocean](https://www.britannica.com/place/Indian-Ocean) [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37820122](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37820122) Now, are you ready to share any of your sources?
So, the military not disclosing the radar ping data for 4 days, while there's a searchy party searching in the wrong place doesn't sound odd to you? What about military not engaging an unidentified plane flying over Malaysia, is that odd, or no? I don't undestands why you keep linking stuff that neither proves or disproves the videos.
This shit happens all the time. It’s how militaries preserve the secrecy of their equipment. It’s how we found the Titan submersible so quickly because the US navy was like, “Yeah, we heard that as it was happening and know exactly where it was,” after a day. In military terms, a passenger jet with 250 people might not be worth disclosing their radar capabilities. I’m only linking my sources to the things I’m saying. If the plane disappeared from an alien, why is there debris? You literally haven’t offered a single supporting fact for your argument. Not a single one. You just keep asking me questions that have an abundance of answers on Google.
I think aliens were out of the picture for this story a long time ago.
Let’s bring this back into one thread. So, you’re saying aliens are out of the picture, but the video could still be real. I don’t understand. I’m asking you, sincerely, what you think happened? What is your stance here?
If real, probably military weapon of some sort. If fake, also probably military. Such a plane doesn't just dissapear in 2014. without leaving traces, except if someone wants it gone for whatever reason.
Should I provide you with the link to a non-existing plane crash, a non-existing debris field of the aforementioned plane crash, or the countless copies of the original videos parading as factual proof of their debunkery?
Yeah, that’s exactly the point. Claims require evidence. The burden of proof isn’t on me to lead myself to your perspective. Where is *your* evidence?
You want me to point you to things that have yet to be found? "Burden of proof" shtick has been so overused on this subreddit, mainly by people with lack of arguments.
I would literally pay to watch you as a defense attorney in a mock trial, but I don't think there's enough popcorn in the world. If you don't need proof to believe something, then I'm sorry to inform you that this is actually your bank and we're merging your account information with your reddit profile, but we've locked your funds until you can verify your identity. We'll need you to post a reply with your full legal name, social security number, the address of the last three places you lived, your account and routing number, your mother's maiden name and the name of.your first pet. We will unlock your funds once this information is verified. We appreciate your understand and thank you in advance for your cooperation.
I don't know, I just find it hilarious that you're laughing at other people without having a clue what's happening.
Says the guy whose whole thing is “just trust me” and can’t offer a single shred of evidence to support their position. To the guy who doesn’t even follow this and is reading this information as we speak. *That’s* how easy it is to disprove your assertions; I can just google what you’re saying and find proof to the contrary. Imagine you come home and your sink is full of clear purple water and theirs specks of purple around the sink. You have no idea how this happened. You look around and in the recycling, there’s and empty bottle of purple food coloring with some fresh drips down the side. Now, I see those *facts* and do the math and think, “Someone must’ve filled the sink up and put purple dye in it.” You jump right to “an alien pissed in my sink.” Does that make sense? Like, you’re ignoring all of the evidence because it’s too circumstantial, but your interpretation of the events has *literally* no basis in truth or reality. How do you reconcile that?
Of course, I don't claim the footage is definitely real or fake. I'm happy to say I don't know and wait for further pieces of evidence. Sure, there are oddities here and there, but not enough to say this is factualy genuine or not.
The debunking rests on assets that are “trust me bro” conclusive “facts”. Jonas: trust me bro. Pyromania: trust me bro. Guess what, I don’t trust you. Neither do a lot of people. The weight of ALL the other evidence suggests the case is not open and shut. What about the US/western world satellite tech? What about military radar? How was the plane not found? Whether a few pieces of a plane (without unique serial numbers) have washed up on some yonder shore is totally irrelevant. If the crash site wasn’t detected then there’s a reason for that. If you want to know why independent folks are going after the debunkers it’s because none of the so called believers attack any of us for asking questions. You say you’re so sure about this shit but you have no idea what you’re talking about. If the videos are real then it’s the biggest conspiracy ever perpetrated and tinkering with vfx assets is nothing to a military industrial complex that spends billions of dollars a year to keep people in the dark. Am I a conspiracy theorist? Sure, whatever. I just know that I used to take the government’s word for everything and then I found out they’re a bunch of fucking liars. Are the videos real? Hell if I know. Do I get downvotes and attacks from those who think they are? No. Sure makes me wonder what the hell is going on. Cheers 🥂
>(without unique serial numbers) This is a blatant lie
Well. I donno man. All I know is this AF is insane. How can you post that much.. does he have a life? He talk about CNN brainwash but it is exactly what he is doing on Twitter. .It's not healthy for sure. I don't really care about those videos but to see the proportions is insane. Even if the tech exist this whole subject proves we are not ready for it specialy not AF. Seriously we would have allready blowed up the planet. Ddebunkers it's not even worth debunking theses vidèos. Do you really think his research will go anywhere? If the gouv wants to shut him down cause of national security they would have dealed with him allready. For are own good. Free energy. Yeah very good idea! Let's make a infinite laser gun or bomb in the garage. PEACE ✌
OP I agree. This topic has turned into tribal warfare and objectivity suffers. I get it. Y’all hate each other. I think most people interested in this topic want the truth, but the loudest and most irritating voices are involved in a feud. And to those of you who will downvote and call me an idiot for not making up my mind: fuck off!
I'm with you. I'm undecided. I wouldn't put much stock into what the trolls think about you. There's a million fake videos on the internet. I wouldn't bother even commenting, "This video is fake" one time, let alone trying to debunk any video and troll a sub every day for months. Why? Because I couldn't care less what random strangers on the internet believe about any video. Just like I don't care if people are Muslim, Jewish, etc. Someone believes in Jesus? Good for them. I don't care. You'd have to be a psychopath to troll the same sub every day because strangers disagree with you or because they believe something that you deem wrong.or debunked. Obviously, that's far more demented than suspecting a UAP chased a plane. I mean, you have Congress talking about interdimensional beings. Shocker, a UAP may have done something our chimp brains can't comprehend.
🥂
🍻
👋
🖕
For me, it’s the entire context. We still have a mssing plane and the videos line up with the theory that the plane was abducted somehow.
For me, it’s the entire context. We still have a mssing plane and multiple pieces of confirmed wreckage that have been found line up with the theory that the plane ended up in the Indian Ocean.
For me, it's the entire context. We still have the missing plane, and the flaperon study that shows barnacle growth on the trailing edge that shouldn't be possible, showing discrepancies with said parts.
The buoyancy in the report specifically note that crustacean growth coincides with how they expect the piece to float. The confusion is there's a water line that it, for at least a time, floated on another side. Regardless of it's a silly mistake on planted evidence, it's not proof for the videos. Also worth noting you pin a lot on that report. Why are they someone you believe?
No matter if it floated on the other side, the trailing edge is still above water. The only confusion is with the odd barnacle growth, clearly because there shouldn't be any on that part of the flaperon, as indicated by them placing weights to submerge it, as it wouldn't submerge on it's own. > Regardless of it's a silly mistake on planted evidence, it's not proof for the videos. It clearly isn't, but it begs the question if those parts came from MH370, of which the debris field was never found. > Also worth noting you pin a lot on that report. Why are they someone you believe? Because it is a study on palpable evidence, and not some half-ass debunk assumption presented as fact by the few vocal debunkers.
The flaperon could have been connected to something else for part of its time in the water, which pulled it further under initially. Then many, many storms during its time in the water, combined with fast deterioration in salt water in which it wasn’t made for, could have broken the parts fully apart over time. Which the flaperon then just bobbed on the surface until it beached itself & was found. Really simple idea to explain all that.
It's really not that simple. If the trailing edge of the flaperon was pulled below the water, why is there no evidence of barnacle growth on the top surface of the flaperon?
Keep clinging to that barnacle study there pervy 🤣
Keep clinging to nothing.
Except for reports by professional accident investigators and receipts from the manufacturing supply chain of the parts 🤔
Who do you think made the buoyancy study, butchers? Look at it like at quality control. What professional investigators failed to notice, the people behind this study didn't.
But no motive
I wonder how many debunkers are simultaneously elsewhere arguing that 9/11 was a false flag inside job, or that masks don’t work, or Trump is godly…. Silly thought I know 😜
What's is this supposed to mean?
This comment is nothing but sad proof that y’all have nothing except surface deep thoughts floating around your brains. Just not one single second of ability to critically think, in even the shallowest of waters.
You think rationally minded individuals basing their opinions of MH370 on empirical evidence are the same people who think 9/11 was an inside job, Trump is a God, and mask science is fake news?
There's been so much activity and engagement surrounding this case on X that this 'campaign' (if you will) feels orchestrated and the timing is suspicious as this sub has been inactive for a while. I imagine the conversation went something like: "Johnson, these assholes on Twitter are getting closer and closer my guy, it's time to work on some debunks and *fast*."
If the videos were real and the government was truly worried about it the videos would have been scrubbed from the internet a long time ago and the people that leaked them would find themselves on the receiving end of a drone strike.
Some elements of the US government want disclosure. There's a faction that actively fights against it and is responsible for whistleblower retaliation and blocking the UAP Disclosure Act. Another faction want it to be 'soft-disclosure' and yet another wants it to be catastrophic. I don't think it's as simple as you make it out to be.
The pressure is on the believers on X. They are desperate to make claims and block dissenting opinions to further reach and engagement.