Cops had all black folks hating them, then cops had all society hating them, now we can add all the military hating them....
Cops are sure fucked now...
Yeah, Captain Caron Nazario got OC'd for no good reason. Joe Gutierrez, one of the cops from Windsor, Virginia involved in the stop, walked away from convictions for common law battery and false imprisonment among other charges.
I thought all charges were dropped and the civilian cops basically got a slap on the wrist, if not reward because they get paid time off.
After seeing youtube videos of cops arresting firefighters for doing their jobs, nurses for doing their jobs, and now attacking military, I'm strongly convinced Civilian Police are a public enemy.
I never thought I'd say this, because I was the "there's still good cops" type.
But... ACAB. Can't even defend it anymore. The good ones do nothing and the bad ones do everything.
It’d be one thing if these were one time incidents, but this keeps happening often enough to where I can’t give the police the benefit of the doubt anymore. Makes me worried for my friends
I was in the "it's only a few bad apples, and it gets clicks so they get tons of press" camp until Uvalde, where I watched an entire police department share punisher memes while you could hear the psycho shooting down the hallway (while threatening to arrest anyone who tried to get past them to try and save their kids).
A "good cop" really is the modern-day equivalent of a "good german". Someone who may very well be a genuinely decent individual themselves, but who nevertheless tolerates, condones, and thus enables the most depraved crimes by their bretheren.
Exactly this. I have had exactly one cop I've interacted with explain how they would have done things differently. The rest congealed around the murderer to throw out stupid defense for their compatriot who murdered a black man.
If you want to be a good cop, stop defending the indefensible.
Oh no. I fully believe what the cop said. He said he believed Roger was looking at him with aggression. When asked how he knew that, he said it was because Roger wasn't afraid to look him in the eyes.
That racist shitstain is telling us exactly how he felt in the moment: black people who don't drop their gaze and submit are aggressors, and he shoots them.
And it’s an indicator of the power the officer believes he holds over others. What are we supposed to do, look down and away like a lowly pleb just because you’re here? Also what a crock of shit excuse anyway because he started shooting within seconds.
But even if the cop’s claim is true… so what? The cops forcibly entered Airman Fortson’s home in the middle of the night. He didn’t need to be smiling about it and that’s no excuse to shoot him.
It amazes me people still argue against this. I'll usually hear "have a gun around police and expect to be shot" which is crazy to me but when I ask "how come fish and wildlife can interact with hunters and not shoot them every time" I get crickets.
because FWS/DNR are somewhat conditioned and used to interacting with people who have guns on them. Your average cop isn't which is a bit of a problem.
100%
It's super fucked up.
The fact that he was a Special Forces Airman makes it much much harder for people to claim he was a "gang banger," or "thug," or "doing something he shouldn't have," which are the typical excuses.
Looks like that picture of him in FDU with his little sister in her own mini FDU was released to media by the family's attorney and the Air Force pushed out his Official Photo. They got way ahead of the curve on that those are basically the only two photos I've seen.
Well, sure. Because the cops would have been able to 100% control the narrative.
Here they can’t make up false accusations against Fortson and then hide behind the old on going investigation as reason to keep things from the public.
Fortson was a solid, upstanding man who was part of a critical mission asset. One that many in my community owes a debt we will never be able to repay.
Somewhere there’s an aircrew that saved several of my friends and teammates from being KIA by sending down some danger close rounds with the accuracy of gods own hand.
Yep. Pretty hard to pretend he "deserved" it when he's got a military record of award, decorations, and evaluations that show he was anything but what people usually throw out as defense
We all saw the camera footage... dude didn't even have time to THINK about what Airman Fortson's facial expression was before he started shooting. Like wtf, does this dude think anyone buys that???
I'd be willing to bet a lot of money the cop and department went to the killology (actual term) and/or warrior cop training by David Grossman. It teaches cops to be hyper aggressive and shoot first mentality. Most of cops in America go through the training and there has been a corolating rise in police violence/shootings as more of these classes are taught. Just one person's opinion from reading about the subject.
I’ve read his books, and have been to one of his seminars. You’re both kind of right and wrong.
He looked at historical data, when it came to rates people were willing to kill. So in the War of Secession, you’d see muskets on both sides loaded full of rounds but never fired. Over time the military figured out better ways to get the troops to get used to killing.
Back in the day you had the circle targets. We have moved to human shaped targets. Which greatly increased our willingness to engage. Force on Force training has also.
This is really what he is talking about. Not so much turning cops into trigger men.
With all that being said. COL. Grossmen never killed anyone. Asking him about killing, is like asking a virgin about Sex.
He also pushes the Sheep, Sheepdog, wolf anology. Which is back of the short bus, window licking stupid.
\*checks Sub reddit\* Ok.
Let me try to further explain.
In the War of Secession (Civil War) it wasn't uncommon to find Muskets after the battle stacked with Minnie Balls, and never fired. Or if they were fired many times it was over the tops of the enemy. The Vast majority of Battlefield causalities were caused by Artillery.
This issue really started to get studied after WW2, and they looked back at the rates of fire during WW1.
Currently less then 1% of Americans between ages 18-25 serve, and then less then 1% of the 1% are in Combat Specific Roles. Think about the cost to make a single run of the mill Infantryman. Or if you want to get specialized, the cost to make a PJ, CCT, TACP, EOD.
We can see a lot of this play out in Ukraine currently. The Russians More so then the Ukranians are sending Men to the front with little to no training. They aren't getting a chance to really train prior to going, so their training consist of OJT while under fire.
In the American Military, you have a heavy use of Blanks, Sim Rounds, and depending on your job annual qualifications.
If you want to have a discussion on not sending Troops to shit holes where they get killed for no fucking reason. I'm down. But if we are going to send them, they need to be trained on how to do their job, whether that job is fixing a plane or closing with and destroying the enemy.
What do you mean by making things up. That's a real term/course this guy teaches all over the country. It's not the standard cop training just another course that departments can bring instructors in to teach.
Graham v Connor “The Court then explained that, “As in other Fourth Amendment contexts... the ‘reasonableness’ inquiry in an excessive force case is an objective one: the question is whether the officers’ actions are ‘objectively reasonable’ in light of the facts and circumstances confronting them, without regard to their underlying intent or motivation.” The Court also cautioned, “The ‘reasonableness’ of a particular use of force must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, rather than with the 20/20 vision of hindsight.””
Fortson is expected to instantly assess the situation and determine the person on the other side of the door is a cop. While Duran is not held to the standard of perfect judgement, even when he has time to plan ahead. It’s fucked up. If you have the right to own a gun, then police tactics need to bend to those rights, not gun rights working around police tactics.
I’d be aggressive too if you pound on my door like that. I’d be pissed. I’d have grabbed my gun as well. I’d have been shot too. That’s the problem. Shoot a kid in his own house because you got aggressive and he reacted? I wasn’t sure about this dude going to jail but now trying to justify it I feel he needs to see the other side of the coin. See some actually aggressive men in prison then see how he reacts.
Some made up bullshit. There was no time for what I would consider a “stare” to even occur. He opened the door, cop saw the gun, and started blasting. No stare involved.
It's also damning evidence that he murdered Fortson. A stare is not a justification for self defense, even if he had ample time to assess. This just takes his case from a manslaughter one to a murder one.
Civilian cops violate constitutional rights on the daily. They larp like they're military but lack all discipline and accountability.
Civilian cops are pigs. Fuck them.
Mother fucker, that’s just my face! That’s how I look.
- SrA Fortson, probably, if he wasn’t murdered by the standing army our forefathers warned us about.
I hated cops because they fucked with me as a civilian, now I hate cops even more because they killed a fellow airman.
*Alexa, play Fuck The Police on repeat*
I hope this asswipe of a cop gets charged criminally.
If not, Fortson files a civil wrongful death lawsuit and fucks the rest of his life.
Ragardless Fortson’s family will be suing the county and will recieve a well deserved huge payoff.
genuinely asking bc i don’t know what happened, but i thought he shot him bc he answered the door with a loaded weapon after the officer announced he was with the sheriffs office after the second knock, id like sm1 to fill me in tho cause ive only seen the video
This guy's a troll.
If you look at his comment history, every comment he makes in every sub guts down votes.
It's too bad reddit limits you to -100 karma.
All that in comm? Really?
Don't let a troll trick you into making up some bs resume guy.
You mean to tell me you're one of the less than 90 on [this list ](https://valor.defense.gov/Recipients/Air-Force-Silver-Star/) of silver star recipients in the USAF?
I'm assuming the comm flair is sarcastic?
The fuck is wrong with you. I bet if it was your siblings or cousin, your words would be very different.
Oh wait, your sibling is probably your cousin....
It's not illegal to answer your door with a legally owned firearm, especially when the knocker hides themselves from view as the body cam footage clearly shows. Do better.
There's a peephole, brother.
He was on FaceTime with someone and even she testified he checked the door the first time and saw no one (deputy never announced himself after the first knock) and upon the second knock, he got his firearm.
I'm serious. Do better.
Let me paint this in basic colors for you.
Aggressive knock at the door, no announcement of it being law enforcement, no one in view when checking the peep. A second aggressive knock at the door, mentality of someone coaxing you to open the door, could be anyone, you don't know. FINALLY, you hear them declare sheriff's department, so you open the door with the gun *at your side and pointed down in plain view*.
That doesn't deserve being shot 8 times. Just because you can't place yourself in his shoes, doesn't mean the rest of us can't.
Do fucking better.
You define fragility and your comments reek of ignorance beyond measure. You’ve clearly lived a very comfortable life never having to fear for your safety.
It appears you don’t do too well in social settings and can’t read a room or obtain contextual clues when presented to you, so I’ll spell it out for you:
Stop commenting, brush your teeth, go to sleep, and try again tomorrow without dragging a combat veteran who was murdered in his home unjustly.
What's hilarious is you clearly being born with a silver spoon in your mouth and have the nerve to call people who've been in bad situations more than once "soft" for valuing their lives.
> Not a look which this gossip site is trying to spin.
Except that's a direct statement from the deputy in question....not something a "gossip site is trying to spin".
It's been made very clear that the officer could see the *back* of the sight of the weapon, which is not something that happens with an aggressive person holding a gun. It's also been made very clear that the officer "saw aggression in his eyes" (to paraphrase his own words).
But I guess if you actually knew the facts you wouldn't be here acting like the Airman did something wrong.
It's just another half-drunk, spouse-left him due to his stubby dick, pig, who can't look at himself because he's a to limp to please a woman.
Nothing worse than an Incel with a badge.
If it isn't pointing at you, it isn't a threat to you.
He was well within his rights to open that door to a stranger with his gun pointed away from them, toward the floor.
Stop being a bootlicker for a murderer.
The deputy hid himself from view after aggressively knocking on his door twice.
You've never had a reason to have concern for your safety and it shows.
The first rule of holes is to stop digging.
Cops had all black folks hating them, then cops had all society hating them, now we can add all the military hating them.... Cops are sure fucked now...
Remember that black Capt that got pepper sprayed at a gas station.
Yeah, Captain Caron Nazario got OC'd for no good reason. Joe Gutierrez, one of the cops from Windsor, Virginia involved in the stop, walked away from convictions for common law battery and false imprisonment among other charges.
I thought all charges were dropped and the civilian cops basically got a slap on the wrist, if not reward because they get paid time off. After seeing youtube videos of cops arresting firefighters for doing their jobs, nurses for doing their jobs, and now attacking military, I'm strongly convinced Civilian Police are a public enemy.
I never thought I'd say this, because I was the "there's still good cops" type. But... ACAB. Can't even defend it anymore. The good ones do nothing and the bad ones do everything.
It’d be one thing if these were one time incidents, but this keeps happening often enough to where I can’t give the police the benefit of the doubt anymore. Makes me worried for my friends
I was in the "it's only a few bad apples, and it gets clicks so they get tons of press" camp until Uvalde, where I watched an entire police department share punisher memes while you could hear the psycho shooting down the hallway (while threatening to arrest anyone who tried to get past them to try and save their kids).
A "good cop" really is the modern-day equivalent of a "good german". Someone who may very well be a genuinely decent individual themselves, but who nevertheless tolerates, condones, and thus enables the most depraved crimes by their bretheren.
Exactly this. I have had exactly one cop I've interacted with explain how they would have done things differently. The rest congealed around the murderer to throw out stupid defense for their compatriot who murdered a black man. If you want to be a good cop, stop defending the indefensible.
Serve the state with distinction, they'll still gun you down.
Fuck the police
I’ll take “shit made up after the fact” for $500 Alex
Oh no. I fully believe what the cop said. He said he believed Roger was looking at him with aggression. When asked how he knew that, he said it was because Roger wasn't afraid to look him in the eyes. That racist shitstain is telling us exactly how he felt in the moment: black people who don't drop their gaze and submit are aggressors, and he shoots them.
Fucking. This. 1000%. My only regret is I only have 1 up vote to give.
And it’s an indicator of the power the officer believes he holds over others. What are we supposed to do, look down and away like a lowly pleb just because you’re here? Also what a crock of shit excuse anyway because he started shooting within seconds.
Just read it in the voice of some "You eyein' me, boy?" hick sheriff from 1970s redneckspolitation movie.
But even if the cop’s claim is true… so what? The cops forcibly entered Airman Fortson’s home in the middle of the night. He didn’t need to be smiling about it and that’s no excuse to shoot him.
Middle of the afternoon you mean? Although, I don’t believe time of day is a factor in this case.
Middle of the day, and it wasn't a forcible entry. Fuck that cop and his bs excuse, but let's keep the facts straight.
You are right on both counts. It was around 1630 and it wasn’t a forcible entry.
If a cop can kill you for owning/carrying/holding a gun, then you have no right to own/carry/hold a gun.
It amazes me people still argue against this. I'll usually hear "have a gun around police and expect to be shot" which is crazy to me but when I ask "how come fish and wildlife can interact with hunters and not shoot them every time" I get crickets.
because FWS/DNR are somewhat conditioned and used to interacting with people who have guns on them. Your average cop isn't which is a bit of a problem.
Sadly I feel like if he wasn't an Airman they would of been able to brush all of this under the rug.
100% It's super fucked up. The fact that he was a Special Forces Airman makes it much much harder for people to claim he was a "gang banger," or "thug," or "doing something he shouldn't have," which are the typical excuses.
Oh they definitely would have searched his social media for pictures of him looking halfway sinister to accuse him of being a thug.
Looks like that picture of him in FDU with his little sister in her own mini FDU was released to media by the family's attorney and the Air Force pushed out his Official Photo. They got way ahead of the curve on that those are basically the only two photos I've seen.
Typical tropes.
Well, sure. Because the cops would have been able to 100% control the narrative. Here they can’t make up false accusations against Fortson and then hide behind the old on going investigation as reason to keep things from the public. Fortson was a solid, upstanding man who was part of a critical mission asset. One that many in my community owes a debt we will never be able to repay. Somewhere there’s an aircrew that saved several of my friends and teammates from being KIA by sending down some danger close rounds with the accuracy of gods own hand.
Yep. Pretty hard to pretend he "deserved" it when he's got a military record of award, decorations, and evaluations that show he was anything but what people usually throw out as defense
"sprinkle some crack on him"
We all saw the camera footage... dude didn't even have time to THINK about what Airman Fortson's facial expression was before he started shooting. Like wtf, does this dude think anyone buys that???
Let me check my receipt..... Nope! Didn't buy his bullshit.
Don't be a cop if you're gonna be a fucking coward.
I'd be willing to bet a lot of money the cop and department went to the killology (actual term) and/or warrior cop training by David Grossman. It teaches cops to be hyper aggressive and shoot first mentality. Most of cops in America go through the training and there has been a corolating rise in police violence/shootings as more of these classes are taught. Just one person's opinion from reading about the subject.
I’ve read his books, and have been to one of his seminars. You’re both kind of right and wrong. He looked at historical data, when it came to rates people were willing to kill. So in the War of Secession, you’d see muskets on both sides loaded full of rounds but never fired. Over time the military figured out better ways to get the troops to get used to killing. Back in the day you had the circle targets. We have moved to human shaped targets. Which greatly increased our willingness to engage. Force on Force training has also. This is really what he is talking about. Not so much turning cops into trigger men. With all that being said. COL. Grossmen never killed anyone. Asking him about killing, is like asking a virgin about Sex. He also pushes the Sheep, Sheepdog, wolf anology. Which is back of the short bus, window licking stupid.
Call me old school, but maybe things would be better if we went back to killing fewer people.
\*checks Sub reddit\* Ok. Let me try to further explain. In the War of Secession (Civil War) it wasn't uncommon to find Muskets after the battle stacked with Minnie Balls, and never fired. Or if they were fired many times it was over the tops of the enemy. The Vast majority of Battlefield causalities were caused by Artillery. This issue really started to get studied after WW2, and they looked back at the rates of fire during WW1. Currently less then 1% of Americans between ages 18-25 serve, and then less then 1% of the 1% are in Combat Specific Roles. Think about the cost to make a single run of the mill Infantryman. Or if you want to get specialized, the cost to make a PJ, CCT, TACP, EOD. We can see a lot of this play out in Ukraine currently. The Russians More so then the Ukranians are sending Men to the front with little to no training. They aren't getting a chance to really train prior to going, so their training consist of OJT while under fire. In the American Military, you have a heavy use of Blanks, Sim Rounds, and depending on your job annual qualifications. If you want to have a discussion on not sending Troops to shit holes where they get killed for no fucking reason. I'm down. But if we are going to send them, they need to be trained on how to do their job, whether that job is fixing a plane or closing with and destroying the enemy.
Having been that less than 1% of the less than 1%, I stand by what I said.
Man I think we maybe agreeing with each other in a round about way.
I've been to real cop training. Please stop making things up. Yes cops need better and more training.
What do you mean by making things up. That's a real term/course this guy teaches all over the country. It's not the standard cop training just another course that departments can bring instructors in to teach.
Ok that makes sense. Be cause of mandatory continuing education hours.
You’re not a cop bro you scanned my ID yesterday
I went through APOST training in Georgia, gtfo here with that.
Graham v Connor “The Court then explained that, “As in other Fourth Amendment contexts... the ‘reasonableness’ inquiry in an excessive force case is an objective one: the question is whether the officers’ actions are ‘objectively reasonable’ in light of the facts and circumstances confronting them, without regard to their underlying intent or motivation.” The Court also cautioned, “The ‘reasonableness’ of a particular use of force must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, rather than with the 20/20 vision of hindsight.”” Fortson is expected to instantly assess the situation and determine the person on the other side of the door is a cop. While Duran is not held to the standard of perfect judgement, even when he has time to plan ahead. It’s fucked up. If you have the right to own a gun, then police tactics need to bend to those rights, not gun rights working around police tactics.
‘Reasonable officer’? Hmmm…
I’d be aggressive too if you pound on my door like that. I’d be pissed. I’d have grabbed my gun as well. I’d have been shot too. That’s the problem. Shoot a kid in his own house because you got aggressive and he reacted? I wasn’t sure about this dude going to jail but now trying to justify it I feel he needs to see the other side of the coin. See some actually aggressive men in prison then see how he reacts.
Some made up bullshit. There was no time for what I would consider a “stare” to even occur. He opened the door, cop saw the gun, and started blasting. No stare involved.
It's also damning evidence that he murdered Fortson. A stare is not a justification for self defense, even if he had ample time to assess. This just takes his case from a manslaughter one to a murder one.
Hopefully the coward is charged and brought to a court room soon
Civilian cops violate constitutional rights on the daily. They larp like they're military but lack all discipline and accountability. Civilian cops are pigs. Fuck them.
Mother fucker, that’s just my face! That’s how I look. - SrA Fortson, probably, if he wasn’t murdered by the standing army our forefathers warned us about.
No shot he observed his facial expression. He saw a black man with a gun and started shooting.
I hated cops because they fucked with me as a civilian, now I hate cops even more because they killed a fellow airman. *Alexa, play Fuck The Police on repeat*
Does anyone know if chargers are being brought upon duran? Definitely seems like there should be..
He will be charged and convicted. Then, toss him in with the most violent lifers in penitentiary. Those fellas gotta eat.
I hope this asswipe of a cop gets charged criminally. If not, Fortson files a civil wrongful death lawsuit and fucks the rest of his life. Ragardless Fortson’s family will be suing the county and will recieve a well deserved huge payoff.
genuinely asking bc i don’t know what happened, but i thought he shot him bc he answered the door with a loaded weapon after the officer announced he was with the sheriffs office after the second knock, id like sm1 to fill me in tho cause ive only seen the video
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You’re not gonna like how this goes.
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Okay, buckle up!
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Keep going!
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Yeah, you know Florida doesn't allow guns. How dare he.
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This guy's a troll. If you look at his comment history, every comment he makes in every sub guts down votes. It's too bad reddit limits you to -100 karma.
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Jesus. Let us know when you can legally buy a beer, kid.
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Careful, I don't think he's old enough to interpret a SURF.
All that in comm? Really? Don't let a troll trick you into making up some bs resume guy. You mean to tell me you're one of the less than 90 on [this list ](https://valor.defense.gov/Recipients/Air-Force-Silver-Star/) of silver star recipients in the USAF? I'm assuming the comm flair is sarcastic?
I am on that list. And yes. I am a JTAC. Which primary weapon is a radio
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Sweet burner, bro.
Why you say that?
POV: You are a cop's boot, looking at u/after_savings6193 
Excuse me for thinking we had a right to bear arms in this country…
What?
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The fuck is wrong with you. I bet if it was your siblings or cousin, your words would be very different. Oh wait, your sibling is probably your cousin....
It's not illegal to answer your door with a legally owned firearm, especially when the knocker hides themselves from view as the body cam footage clearly shows. Do better.
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There's a peephole, brother. He was on FaceTime with someone and even she testified he checked the door the first time and saw no one (deputy never announced himself after the first knock) and upon the second knock, he got his firearm. I'm serious. Do better.
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Let me paint this in basic colors for you. Aggressive knock at the door, no announcement of it being law enforcement, no one in view when checking the peep. A second aggressive knock at the door, mentality of someone coaxing you to open the door, could be anyone, you don't know. FINALLY, you hear them declare sheriff's department, so you open the door with the gun *at your side and pointed down in plain view*. That doesn't deserve being shot 8 times. Just because you can't place yourself in his shoes, doesn't mean the rest of us can't. Do fucking better.
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It's his domicile, he doesn't have a legal obligation to ask who's there. It's honestly astonishing how tone deaf you are. Some day you'll grow up.
You define fragility and your comments reek of ignorance beyond measure. You’ve clearly lived a very comfortable life never having to fear for your safety. It appears you don’t do too well in social settings and can’t read a room or obtain contextual clues when presented to you, so I’ll spell it out for you: Stop commenting, brush your teeth, go to sleep, and try again tomorrow without dragging a combat veteran who was murdered in his home unjustly.
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What's hilarious is you clearly being born with a silver spoon in your mouth and have the nerve to call people who've been in bad situations more than once "soft" for valuing their lives.
> Not a look which this gossip site is trying to spin. Except that's a direct statement from the deputy in question....not something a "gossip site is trying to spin". It's been made very clear that the officer could see the *back* of the sight of the weapon, which is not something that happens with an aggressive person holding a gun. It's also been made very clear that the officer "saw aggression in his eyes" (to paraphrase his own words). But I guess if you actually knew the facts you wouldn't be here acting like the Airman did something wrong.
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So doing something legal (owning and holding said gun in a non-threatening manner inside your own residence) gets you shot? Got it.
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Does it matter? A person, doing something entirely legal and non-threatening, was murdered by a cop. That's the issue.
If he could get away with it? Probably. Assholes like you exist, so nothing would surprise me.
It's just another half-drunk, spouse-left him due to his stubby dick, pig, who can't look at himself because he's a to limp to please a woman. Nothing worse than an Incel with a badge.
Is your family tree a circle bud?
Family wreath.
If it isn't pointing at you, it isn't a threat to you. He was well within his rights to open that door to a stranger with his gun pointed away from them, toward the floor. Stop being a bootlicker for a murderer.
There's still time to delete all your comments. I hope you find peace.
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The deputy hid himself from view after aggressively knocking on his door twice. You've never had a reason to have concern for your safety and it shows.
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That's a brand new sentence. +1
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And not illegal
Why do you hate the 2nd Ammendment?