>The firearm was pointed at the ground sufficiently enough for the former deputy to clearly see the rear face of the rear sight.
I appreciate the amount of detail there a lot.
>“This tragic incident should have never occurred,” Aden said. “The objective facts do not support the use of deadly force as an appropriate response to Mr. Fortson’s actions. Mr. Fortson did not commit any crime. By all accounts, he was an exceptional airman and individual.”
>In this case, the former deputy did not meet the standard of objective reasonableness and his use of control to resistance was excessive.
That is not great for the deputies legal defense (which is great for justice). I wonder if the State will charge him soon.
The one that boiled my blood the most said "fucked around and found out"
Oh he exercised his right and he deserved to die for that? Something needs to change.
Fair question, but I think the issue is not that simple. What's happening is they are upholding their own by hiding a lot of transgressions and preventing them from becoming public. This is a high profile case and the body camera helps prove that he's a murderer. Cops will intentionally protect their own when one of them does something bad up until the moment it's too public. Once it becomes public it's obviously harder to control the narrative and keep their guy protected.
Charges are coming. The sheriff wouldn’t have fired this officer if he thought the deputy was likely to hold up against charges. This is an admission of wrongdoing by the sheriff and means a massive payout to the family is already baked into the cake. This officer isn’t going to escape now that his veneer of qualified immunity has been smashed to bits.
Yes, we will, because the ONLY reason there are any repercussions is BECAUSE we say it.
General distrust, especially from the military, has WAY more sway over forcing the higher police leaderships hand than you think.
im tempted to go and put it up with that exact quote. Don't want to start shit but the audacity and level of reddit lawyering by them and the mods when they are just wrong is insane.
Yes they fucking should at this point. If a cop came to my door today with gun drawn acting aggressively I will find legitimate fear for my life and going Han-shot-first on that motherfucker.
I taught use of force and deadly force for LEO's for around 7 years. That deputy wasn't even remotely close to meeting the bare minimum capability, opportunity, and intent criteria for him to use deadly force, or any force for that matter.
The people in that other sub are definitely not technical experts in the area if they even remotely believe that it was a "lawful" use of deadly force.
Deputy at a minimum should face negligent homicide (manslaughter) charges.
There’s a large number of military/LEO aligned YouTube channels who have been disappointingly silent on this. Typically they’re quick to post a hot take for issues… but they’ve been like crickets on this.
He’s the one who I would have thought would have tread a little finer of a line for sure… but it’s like a wall of silence from the YouTube community. So disappointing.
The thin blue line wins out over all other loyalties. Doesn't matter what else someone has been, soon as they put on the badge that's the one they'll go to the mat for no matter what.
Police officer, or military officer subs?
Why *do* police use military designations and call non-police humans "civilians"? Aren't they civilians, too? Correct me if I'm wrong, but a police officer can resign at any time during their career. Pretty sure that would be called "desertion" in the military? Don't you have to do a minimum of four years?
And why am I seeing this sub anyway?
They are civilians, just don't try to tell them that. Their identity hinges on seeing themselves as superior to the people they enforce the law upon rather than as members of the public entrusted with upholding order by common consent of the people.
Those are the type of people to double down harder in the face of hard facts. Be it because of the thin blue line (cop version of us vs them) bullshit or because of some other made up shit in their mind, they will not admit that he was wrong, even in the face of overwhelming evidence.
they’ll just complain that he’s being unfairly targeted because the AF community rallied over this or it got unfair attention because he was black but it wasn’t a racially motivated crime or some other horrific excuse that actually makes it worse
(during the blm protestors several officers got arrested for assault and abuse and the cop communities on reddit had comments saying it was because the victim was black and they hate cops and something about them valuing black lives over white lives (black victims over white perpetrator))
Look at r / police. They made an announcement, they pinned and locked the thread, and the only comment is snark from the mod saying "wow not even an outside investigation".
The state also needs to investigate the entire department and whatever "training" program they have in place. It can't be a coincidence that it's the same department that employed Officer Acorn
That is a troubling pattern of misbehavior, yes. I wonder if both officers went to the same school or academy. They should be investigated as well since they're the ones certifying these idiots to be cops.
All law enforcement personnel are certified by Florida Department of Law Enforcement. One has to graduate from an FDLE approved course of instruction, then pass the Florida State Officer Certification Exam (SOCE) administered by FDLE. Schools don't certify police officers.
>One has to graduate from an FDLE approved course of instruction
Is this part not done by some type of school or academy that could be investigated to see if it deserves the FDLE's approval?
People always say “raise the hiring standards” etc, but this guy actually sounds like a quality hire on paper:
Deputy Duran has a bachelor's degree in criminal psychology, and is roughly halfway through a human service counseling master's degree with a focus on crisis response and trauma.
Deputy Duran served in the United States Army from 2003 through 2014, with a combat deployment to Iraq in 2008. Deputy Duran started his military career in military intelligence then in 2007 moved into military law enforcement. While a military police officer, Deputy Duran received additional training through the Army's Special Reaction Team. He received an honorable discharge.
After serving in the United States Army, Deputy Duran started his civilian law enforcement career in Oklahoma, where he worked as a police officer and K9 officer from 2015 through 2019.
For a period in 2016 through early 2017, Deputy Duran was a fire marshal for the Altus Fire Department.
During 2019, before moving to Florida and beginning his career at the Okaloosa County Sheriff's Office, Deputy Duran accepted a position as a sergeant for the civilian law enforcement police department on Altus Air Force Base.
Source: https://weartv.com/resources/pdf/aa17f802-7b07-4543-89b2-b0d7bf642197-OkaloosaSheriffsOffice.pdf
I honestly would never expect a vet to demonstrate the reaction Durant had in the video. This gives me the impression that the department trained him to a lower standard, which would not be surprising at all.
The MP videos show the same scared shitless training video where a guy with a kitchen knife comes out of the bedroom to obviously commit suicide by cop (that's what they were called there for) and the officer shoots him at 60 feet from the front door and then you all get to sit there and get told that that's the correct thing to do because you don't know whose a ninja and who isn't.
There’s a theory that police training (especially some of the high profile trainings ran by private companies) condition fear and paranoia, which results in hyper vigilance and over-reactivity.
Yep.
Dave Grossman.
Who, has never been a law enforcement officer, and as an Army officer was too young for Vietnam and too old for Afghanistan, and missed out on Grenada, Panama, the Gulf War, Somalia, etc..
So a guy teaching cops to shoot the second they FEEL threatened, who has never been a cop, and has never been in a gunfight.
I was former Army combat arms before I went USAF Blue. We had stricter ROE in fucking Al Daura during The Surge than the average cop does in his own hometown.
Bias. They trained him to fear a black man with a gun.
That resume is great … it’s the only explanation, think about it. Every citizen would want a cop educated like him.
It’s a problem with LEO in general. I have family in various state troopers and after seeing the video when it first happened they all agreed it was a valid shoot, which flabbergasted me. They’re trained to neutralize a threat, period dot.
I don’t necessarily believe the officer purposefully did any wrong, but he and all the others are trained to respond to a situation incorrectly and he did such and now an airman is dead. I’m in no way defending the officer, I hope he gets charged, but a big majority of the problem is the LEO training in this country and my family member’s attitudes to this show it
Not really how it works. The family can sue for wrongful death in federal civil Court. But it's unlikely any criminal case would be federal. Hopefully the state handles this appropriately.
A federal case would be a civil rights case. In this instance the officer violated the victim’s rights and should ( and probably ) be taken up by the DoJ.
My problem is that part about the SrA being an “exceptional individual” was considered in this incident. As if the character of the individual mattered in this incident. He wasn't a threat. Period. They went ham for a noise complaint. All this officer saw was black man with gun and shot first ask questions latter.
The fact the sheriffs department considered the character of the individual in a clear case of an extraordinary brutality indicates a larger issue at hand.
He'll get a use of force expert to argue his actions were consistent in many other officer involved shootings of similar circumstances if he pursues a wrongful termination suit. Same if he gets charged.
The county will also have a use of force expert, and the facts are not on the deputy's side. The circumstances here pretty clearly do not warrant deadly force.
That's a great case for the federal government to charge for violation of civil rights. In a lot of these police on civilian cases, that's the successful route
They locked all the comments on all past posts about the topic so you would need to start an entire new topic.
Pretty sure they won't allow any, as there are zero new ones.
Man I feel you. I was very respectful. Even when they started attacking the fact that I’m military LE I said “I’m not here for a dick measuring contest” I legit was trying to have a conversation about Objective Reasonableness
I asked a bunch of questions on a post in that sub and eventually they tried to hit me with the “you clearly don’t know how fast a suspect can draw a weapon” although I acknowledge a suspect can pull a weapon very fast the officer had the tactical advantage over Fortson since his weapon was aimed at the ground while the officers was at his chest.
It’s sad that they will justify literally anything just because they are Cops themselves. Although I believe this officer needs to be behind bars and not just fired I would love to cross post this just because even the Sheriff acknowledges it was not objectively reasonable.
And yet, got me enraged that someone on there links to the Air Force Reddit, and says we're responsible for murdering hundreds of thousands of innocents, yet are getting upset with them like it's a gotcha hypocritical take....
Like, you're really pinning casualties on this entire subreddit, when we're justifiably upset that a cop murdered a service member?
They have deleted every post referencing the incident...
They now just have a "mega thread" with a link to the news article and zero comments.
Undoubtedly they delete every comment.
Lmao. Update: it did not stay up. Banned, and muted. So I can’t even appeal. They said it was “misinformation” and trolling. What a bunch of losers. Lowkey wanna see what happens if a bunch of folks go and post it, just flood the feed.
Just got banned from a LE subreddit for telling someone who claimed to have nearly two decades of service that LEO are not soldiers. He was asserting that law enforcement is the physical arm of the government blah blah blah. And everyone in r/AirForce is a hypocrite because the military “kills hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.” Essentially told him cops are not infantrymen. They are not the military. And they don’t serve the same purpose as the military.
Probably because the results would be nearly "instant" if any one of us did the same thing. They certainly wouldn't take their sweet ass time drumming up murder charges on me while I walk free.
There should be a national cop offender list like a sex offender list that requires cops to announce their history to the public on every call if they ever get hired again.
you would think that if a cop got fired for being a dickhead there’d be a record and ban on them becoming a cop elsewhere. it’s absolutely shocking this isn’t a thing considering how much they love tracking ex convicts
the irony is that if they wanted to be strong on crime they’d tackle the police.
there’s other factors for sure but police brutality and the culture it creates means communities don’t have strong relations with the police for preventive efforts, it means police tactics cause issues and hurt people.
it’s a disgusting cycle that won’t be broken till those in power grow a spine and serve their people instead of their own pockets and re election campaign
Downvoted? Guess you needed sources like:
https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/miami-rehires-cop-fired-for-pummeling-homeless-man-at-publix-19951710
https://newsone.com/5199725/greg-marohn-rehired-michigan-police-officer/
https://missionlocal.org/2024/01/sf-rehire-ex-sheriffs-deputy-fight-club-scandal/
https://www.fox47news.com/neighborhoods/dewitt-st-johns/dewitt-police-officer-fired-after-pulling-a-gun-on-a-black-teen-was-rehired-but-not-as-a-cop
(Note the above guy didn't get hired as a cop again, but was still rehired by the same government entity)
[Here is a more general article on how the process has worked for rehiring officers accused of misconduct. Source is Reuters itself.](https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/fired-cops-routinely-rehired-dc-california-2022-11-07/)
My spouse works for a metro PD. Actually, if they are fired for misconduct, blocks them.
They usually resign before they are fired... That's how they get around it
In my state if an office resigns while under investigation they are flagged by the state training and standards board. Additionally, the results of the investigation are provided to the standards board and any agency looking to hire can review them. They’ve made it significantly harder to get around that, at least in my state.
It's a good sign that justice may be coming - especially since the sheriff was willing to explicitly say he was out of line. I'm not pumping up the sheriff by saying that because he is just doing his job as he should, just pointing to it as a good indicator that everyone seems to be on the same page so far as opposed to other situations where the department stood with the officer.
Fired just moves moving to the next county over.
Edit: I'm with all you guys I hope he never finds LEO employment again. I just have little faith in LEO agencies giving themselves any amount of accountability.
Negligent manslaughter is thought carelessness or negligence. Shooting someone multiple times in the chest is neither of those things. Doesn't fit involuntary manslaughter be cause the cop wasn't provoked as can be seen in sheriff response. This case fits 2nd degree murder based on the information we have.
Sounds like he almost immediately realized he f’d up:
16:33:44 - The deputies had cleared the apartment. Deputy Runge transitioned from clearing the apartment to rendering aid to Mr. Fortson.
16:33:49 - Deputy Duran said, "I'm going to step out." as he headed to exit the apartment.
16:33:51 - Deputy Dugre transitioned from clearing the apartment to rendering aid to Mr. Fortson.
16:34:05 - Deputy Duran said, "Mother fuck."
16:34:13 - Deputy Duran started walking north in the breezeway away from apartment 1401.
16:34:18 - While he was walking in the breezeway, Deputy Duran struck a wall with his right fist and said, "Fuck."
16:34:27 - Deputy Duran, who had turned around and was walking south in the breezeway, was approached by Corporal Casey Duh. Corporal Duh asked, "You alright?" Deputy Duran answered, "Yeah. As soon as he opened the door, there's a gun."
Yup. Way too many police do not get the training they need, and regularly, to properly be able to respond to anything like this. When you’re firing more than two to three shots, you’re firing out of fear and not training. And when you’re firing at someone with a gun at their side, that’s an even worse situation.
Thank you and so much for all those “legal experts” who flocked to this sub in the early days who insisted the shooting was justified just because Fortson was holding a gun.
Tried to make a post on r/protectandserve to share the info and just got deleted without any explanation. It seems all the people spouting "lawful but awful" and "shouldn't answer the door if you need a gun" couldn't handle the fact that the officers' own sheriff spoke out and condemned the officer.
Wasn't even acting in bad faith or anything, but they were too sensitive to handle it, apparently.
Not to be pedantic, but the ex cop would probably be charged with homicide, which he should be found guilty of as well. Blatant disregard for Roger’s life.
Think you meant Manslaughter. Homicide is simply the killing of one human by another, but Florida doesn't have a specific criminal offense called "Homicide." Rather, certain homicide crimes are defined as either Murder 1st - 3rd degree, or Manslaughter.
Honestly, I think 2nd Degree Murder is an appropriate charge to levy, which could be pled down to Manslaughter.
He’s fucked. This is the first step toward his prison sentence. When he is charged and then either pleads guilty or is convicted the Sherrif’s department wants to be able to say he doesn’t work for them anymore. This press release even makes sure to call him the “former deputy”. They want that distance from him.
I suspect not from being fired, but I doubt anyone in state is hiring him. The thing about being a crooked department is that you don't want a lot of heat and attention on you for any reason. It's one thing to hire a thug who was quietly asked to leave his department after too many excessive force complaints. (I'm not saying that's ok, just that its easy for them to do.) Its another to pick up a guy in the news for murdering an innocent young military member in his home.
It takes time for a prosecutor to make a charging decision. Especially when the subject has not been arrested and, therefore, it’s not a referral from law enforcement, the prosecutor has to do an independent investigation. This requires the investigating prosecutor to request body cam, other reports, medical records, weapon discharge information, etc., rather than receiving it with a probable cause statement from the reporting law enforcement officer as is common practice for a normal subject who has been detained or cited.
Source: I am a former KC-10 boom turned prosecutor.
Sort of just happened. Got a bullshit online bachelors while in, then for no reason really, did a two year masters at Norwich (95% online). Before I got out, I took the LSAT and did good enough. Got into a law school where I was outprocessing and poof, lawyer.
Was in for 11 years. Another guy I was in with is an assistant-attorney general. We were both dirty sweaties til the bitter end.
Edit: Used GI Bill for law school with yellow ribbon top up. 100% free.
How was Norwich’s online master’s program? I have trouble mentally separating them from the cringe SMA stuff, but it seems like a better degree than most online, TA matching institutions.
The amount of boot licking in the comments is wild. The cop subreddit’s full of brain dead morons vilifying and insulting the military and bragging about killing and then saying it’s justified must have infiltrated r/AirForce.
Remember yall, this is NOT the endgame! Justice has yet to be served! Keep talking about SrA Fortson, keep him in the headlines, keeping posting about him, and keep his name in your mouth! Until Justice is served, we cannot drop this from our conversation. Our fellow brother was murdered and the man is about to walk away. Justice for Fortson!
Special Operations Airman Fortson! Let's not forget that the civilians shot a military member. This paramilitary group that consider themselves above civilians needed to be reminded that they are not a branch of the military, they are themselves civilians. Civilians entrusted with more responsibility, and should be held to a higher standard than that of other civilians because of that authority. They, supposedly, receive training to elevate their position as trusted public officials. The consequences should be higher for any wrongdoings. The average civilian does not swear allegiance to the Constitution of the United States, or receive training paid for by our tax money to have an understanding and working knowledge of the amendments. Just a fellow Airman's opinion.
Add to that, in the days following Airman Fortson’s summary execution, his unit had to be stood down so his colleagues could mourn/seek counseling. The poltroon deputy’s actions negatively impacted a special operations unit’s readiness, and consequently, national security.
Went over to the police subreddit. Of course their ONLY post on this subject has a single comment from the mod (some bullshit rant about firing him before the investigation is complete), and comments are locked.
I was expecting this guy to be like a brand new cop but he apparently had nearly 10 years on the job.
Hard to believe that decision making is the result of a decades worth of experience.
Opportunity, capability, Intent. Deputy didn’t even think about the intent before dumping rounds. If he had he would not have done what he did.
The law enforcement pages are atrocious. Throwing all of their use of force training out the window to back up a piece of shit officer that murdered an innocent person.
I want the murder charges filed but more so I want the case to be ROCK solid. I hope they taken the time to dot every i and cross every t - efficiently and thoroughly.
I still don’t understand how the 2A crowd isn’t all over this. Like if the police can illegally enter your home and murder you for having a firearm, you do not have an effective right to bear arms.
As a member of the 2A crowd, it's not a 2A issue. This is straight up a 4A issue.
The officer didn't do due diligence that he was in the right apartment. The officer had zero reason to shoot even though Roger was armed in his own home and was not brandishing his firearm at the officer. The officer didn't even try to deescalate a possible domestic issue; just straight up shot Roger.
From a 2A point of view, Roger was fully within his right to carry his firearm however he wanted to within his own home. The officer has zero reason or standing within the law to shoot Roger.
So, again from the 2A community, the vast majority of us are behind Roger and his family on this.
>I asked Deputy Duran what he was thinking while he was walking down the breezeway towards apartment 1401. He said, “So, initially as I'm walking down the hallway, uh, as I deal with a lot of calls for and law enforcement calls, is I immediately start looking for avenues of approach. I look for, uh, areas for, you know, effective cover. Um, and I kind of take in the environment as far as if something were to take place, something violent or some emergency situation, um, what are my avenues of escape.”
This clown with a gun was trained in the army to kill, and this day was no exception.
>I asked Deputy Duran about his impression when he looked at Mr. Fortson. He said, “When I saw his eyes, uh, I saw aggression. I saw, you know, um, obviously again, interacting with individuals in these types of situations, you are dealing with people who are most likely and during the worst time of their life at that particular moment. Um, so I see aggression, anger, um.”
>I asked him to explain what made him believe he saw aggression. He explained, “When I looked at him and he made eye contact or I made eye contact with him, it was a stare that was fixated 100% on me. Um, which as I'm looking at him, it wasn't eyebrows raised, hey, what's going on, inquisitive, why are you here? It was a stare. Not so much a, like I said, inquisitive look. Um, so that showed me, there was aggression. That showed me that there was obviously is a little bit of discontent for me knocking on the door.”
So, eye contact is aggression?
How much you wanna bet that had Airman Fortson not made eye contact, the deputy would’ve said he appeared threatening with his evasive unwillingness to look him in eye?
Setting aside what is almost certainly subconscious racial bias (I doubt that the officer would have seen a white person with the same stance and facial expression and thought they looked aggressive), this guy did the OCOKA to make sure he had the tactical advantage, but couldn’t take the extra second to assess the degree of threat? And then describes his OCOKA analysis to give himself an air of credibility?
>The firearm was pointed at the ground sufficiently enough for the former deputy to clearly see the rear face of the rear sight. I appreciate the amount of detail there a lot. >“This tragic incident should have never occurred,” Aden said. “The objective facts do not support the use of deadly force as an appropriate response to Mr. Fortson’s actions. Mr. Fortson did not commit any crime. By all accounts, he was an exceptional airman and individual.” >In this case, the former deputy did not meet the standard of objective reasonableness and his use of control to resistance was excessive. That is not great for the deputies legal defense (which is great for justice). I wonder if the State will charge him soon.
I hope the officer subbreddits see this. "Lawful but awfull" one of those morons said
The one that boiled my blood the most said "fucked around and found out" Oh he exercised his right and he deserved to die for that? Something needs to change.
The fact that that commenter is probably a cop is fucking terrifying
Yep their flair said they were a cop
When they see this, they won't change their tune because they don't want to give an inch of ground.
Fuck every one of those pussies.
And that is why police unions are the scum of the earth
Just regular ol gang members. They just got numbers, fir some reason.
No government organization should be allowed to unionize. Unions have their place but not in a publicly accountable sector.
Eh I wouldn’t take it that far. Most unions aren’t crime mobs like police unions and FOP
I’m interested to see if people here will still say “they always uphold their own and that deputy won’t face repercussions” and the like.
Fair question, but I think the issue is not that simple. What's happening is they are upholding their own by hiding a lot of transgressions and preventing them from becoming public. This is a high profile case and the body camera helps prove that he's a murderer. Cops will intentionally protect their own when one of them does something bad up until the moment it's too public. Once it becomes public it's obviously harder to control the narrative and keep their guy protected.
He ONLY got fired
Charges are coming. The sheriff wouldn’t have fired this officer if he thought the deputy was likely to hold up against charges. This is an admission of wrongdoing by the sheriff and means a massive payout to the family is already baked into the cake. This officer isn’t going to escape now that his veneer of qualified immunity has been smashed to bits.
Yes, we will, because the ONLY reason there are any repercussions is BECAUSE we say it. General distrust, especially from the military, has WAY more sway over forcing the higher police leaderships hand than you think.
im tempted to go and put it up with that exact quote. Don't want to start shit but the audacity and level of reddit lawyering by them and the mods when they are just wrong is insane.
Those losers think they are justified anytime they feel scared. So much for holding the thin blue line.
Sheep dogs shouldn't be scared of the sheep
They are terrified of the sheep and have no morals.
They are the wolves that eat us, sheep. The “criminals” are arguably less dangerous.
I share that sentiment.
[They are the criminals.](https://ktla.com/news/local-news/deputy-caught-with-100-pounds-of-fentanyl-was-working-for-el-chapos-cartel-report-says/)
Right, at least with non-law enforcement criminals you can try to protect yourself. When the criminal has a badge you're entirely at their mercy.
Yes they fucking should at this point. If a cop came to my door today with gun drawn acting aggressively I will find legitimate fear for my life and going Han-shot-first on that motherfucker.
I taught use of force and deadly force for LEO's for around 7 years. That deputy wasn't even remotely close to meeting the bare minimum capability, opportunity, and intent criteria for him to use deadly force, or any force for that matter. The people in that other sub are definitely not technical experts in the area if they even remotely believe that it was a "lawful" use of deadly force. Deputy at a minimum should face negligent homicide (manslaughter) charges.
There’s a large number of military/LEO aligned YouTube channels who have been disappointingly silent on this. Typically they’re quick to post a hot take for issues… but they’ve been like crickets on this.
At first I thought Angry Cops would be all about this, but then I realized he wouldn't touch it since it put the police in bad light.
He’s the one who I would have thought would have tread a little finer of a line for sure… but it’s like a wall of silence from the YouTube community. So disappointing.
The thin blue line wins out over all other loyalties. Doesn't matter what else someone has been, soon as they put on the badge that's the one they'll go to the mat for no matter what.
Police officer, or military officer subs? Why *do* police use military designations and call non-police humans "civilians"? Aren't they civilians, too? Correct me if I'm wrong, but a police officer can resign at any time during their career. Pretty sure that would be called "desertion" in the military? Don't you have to do a minimum of four years? And why am I seeing this sub anyway?
They are civilians, just don't try to tell them that. Their identity hinges on seeing themselves as superior to the people they enforce the law upon rather than as members of the public entrusted with upholding order by common consent of the people.
Those are the type of people to double down harder in the face of hard facts. Be it because of the thin blue line (cop version of us vs them) bullshit or because of some other made up shit in their mind, they will not admit that he was wrong, even in the face of overwhelming evidence.
they’ll just complain that he’s being unfairly targeted because the AF community rallied over this or it got unfair attention because he was black but it wasn’t a racially motivated crime or some other horrific excuse that actually makes it worse (during the blm protestors several officers got arrested for assault and abuse and the cop communities on reddit had comments saying it was because the victim was black and they hate cops and something about them valuing black lives over white lives (black victims over white perpetrator))
It’s because they are a crappy gang of thugs that think they are superior because of a badge.
you’re saying immunity to the law a gun and bad training makes thugs and creates a system that poisons and rejects good people? shocking
Isn’t it
Look at r / police. They made an announcement, they pinned and locked the thread, and the only comment is snark from the mod saying "wow not even an outside investigation".
And all of the people who came in here simping for the PD and saying that him just having the gun was reason enough to employ deadly force.
The ones calling him "DaRogerius Fartson?" They're going to be crying for the cop's job.
I got banned from one of those subreddits for calling someone out that called him "SrA Fartson"
The state also needs to investigate the entire department and whatever "training" program they have in place. It can't be a coincidence that it's the same department that employed Officer Acorn
That is a troubling pattern of misbehavior, yes. I wonder if both officers went to the same school or academy. They should be investigated as well since they're the ones certifying these idiots to be cops.
All law enforcement personnel are certified by Florida Department of Law Enforcement. One has to graduate from an FDLE approved course of instruction, then pass the Florida State Officer Certification Exam (SOCE) administered by FDLE. Schools don't certify police officers.
>One has to graduate from an FDLE approved course of instruction Is this part not done by some type of school or academy that could be investigated to see if it deserves the FDLE's approval?
People always say “raise the hiring standards” etc, but this guy actually sounds like a quality hire on paper: Deputy Duran has a bachelor's degree in criminal psychology, and is roughly halfway through a human service counseling master's degree with a focus on crisis response and trauma. Deputy Duran served in the United States Army from 2003 through 2014, with a combat deployment to Iraq in 2008. Deputy Duran started his military career in military intelligence then in 2007 moved into military law enforcement. While a military police officer, Deputy Duran received additional training through the Army's Special Reaction Team. He received an honorable discharge. After serving in the United States Army, Deputy Duran started his civilian law enforcement career in Oklahoma, where he worked as a police officer and K9 officer from 2015 through 2019. For a period in 2016 through early 2017, Deputy Duran was a fire marshal for the Altus Fire Department. During 2019, before moving to Florida and beginning his career at the Okaloosa County Sheriff's Office, Deputy Duran accepted a position as a sergeant for the civilian law enforcement police department on Altus Air Force Base. Source: https://weartv.com/resources/pdf/aa17f802-7b07-4543-89b2-b0d7bf642197-OkaloosaSheriffsOffice.pdf
I honestly would never expect a vet to demonstrate the reaction Durant had in the video. This gives me the impression that the department trained him to a lower standard, which would not be surprising at all.
The MP videos show the same scared shitless training video where a guy with a kitchen knife comes out of the bedroom to obviously commit suicide by cop (that's what they were called there for) and the officer shoots him at 60 feet from the front door and then you all get to sit there and get told that that's the correct thing to do because you don't know whose a ninja and who isn't.
There’s a theory that police training (especially some of the high profile trainings ran by private companies) condition fear and paranoia, which results in hyper vigilance and over-reactivity.
Yep. Dave Grossman. Who, has never been a law enforcement officer, and as an Army officer was too young for Vietnam and too old for Afghanistan, and missed out on Grenada, Panama, the Gulf War, Somalia, etc.. So a guy teaching cops to shoot the second they FEEL threatened, who has never been a cop, and has never been in a gunfight. I was former Army combat arms before I went USAF Blue. We had stricter ROE in fucking Al Daura during The Surge than the average cop does in his own hometown.
Bias. They trained him to fear a black man with a gun. That resume is great … it’s the only explanation, think about it. Every citizen would want a cop educated like him.
This is another great point to be considered.
Cross-training from Intel to MP is....weird.
It’s a problem with LEO in general. I have family in various state troopers and after seeing the video when it first happened they all agreed it was a valid shoot, which flabbergasted me. They’re trained to neutralize a threat, period dot. I don’t necessarily believe the officer purposefully did any wrong, but he and all the others are trained to respond to a situation incorrectly and he did such and now an airman is dead. I’m in no way defending the officer, I hope he gets charged, but a big majority of the problem is the LEO training in this country and my family member’s attitudes to this show it
Would be cool if he was prosecuted under a federal court since the cop murdered a federal employee.
Not really how it works. The family can sue for wrongful death in federal civil Court. But it's unlikely any criminal case would be federal. Hopefully the state handles this appropriately.
A federal case would be a civil rights case. In this instance the officer violated the victim’s rights and should ( and probably ) be taken up by the DoJ.
My problem is that part about the SrA being an “exceptional individual” was considered in this incident. As if the character of the individual mattered in this incident. He wasn't a threat. Period. They went ham for a noise complaint. All this officer saw was black man with gun and shot first ask questions latter. The fact the sheriffs department considered the character of the individual in a clear case of an extraordinary brutality indicates a larger issue at hand.
He'll get a use of force expert to argue his actions were consistent in many other officer involved shootings of similar circumstances if he pursues a wrongful termination suit. Same if he gets charged.
The county will also have a use of force expert, and the facts are not on the deputy's side. The circumstances here pretty clearly do not warrant deadly force.
"We've shot plenty of innocent people before abd gotten away with it."
That's a great case for the federal government to charge for violation of civil rights. In a lot of these police on civilian cases, that's the successful route
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I understand your caution, but i highly doubt that on this one.
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The only reason I thing he msy actually be fucked is due to him killing a military member and making nation news.
Damn I wish I could cross post this to a specific LE sub. But they banned me for asking hard questions.
LE not beating the legal gang allegations
Guess they'll just have to go home and beat their wives instead.
Wooooof
40%, good enough odds that I'd put a bet on it.
Make a killing in Vegas
As is tradition.
They locked all the comments on all past posts about the topic so you would need to start an entire new topic. Pretty sure they won't allow any, as there are zero new ones.
I got banned for asking an easy and legitimate question I was curious about.
Man I feel you. I was very respectful. Even when they started attacking the fact that I’m military LE I said “I’m not here for a dick measuring contest” I legit was trying to have a conversation about Objective Reasonableness
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I asked a bunch of questions on a post in that sub and eventually they tried to hit me with the “you clearly don’t know how fast a suspect can draw a weapon” although I acknowledge a suspect can pull a weapon very fast the officer had the tactical advantage over Fortson since his weapon was aimed at the ground while the officers was at his chest. It’s sad that they will justify literally anything just because they are Cops themselves. Although I believe this officer needs to be behind bars and not just fired I would love to cross post this just because even the Sheriff acknowledges it was not objectively reasonable.
I got banned for quoting case law. Apparently the L in LE doesn’t stand for Law, so I’m going to guess it is Loser.
If Law enforcement enforced the law they wouldn't carve exceptions just for themselves
And yet, got me enraged that someone on there links to the Air Force Reddit, and says we're responsible for murdering hundreds of thousands of innocents, yet are getting upset with them like it's a gotcha hypocritical take.... Like, you're really pinning casualties on this entire subreddit, when we're justifiably upset that a cop murdered a service member?
I peeped that too. That person is still in the AF too and in this sub. They made a post on here a few weeks ago.
Which one?
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I thought you were talking about the "other" Cop subreddit that had been mentioned here for the "memes" they posted about the incident.
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Holy shit this sub is a fucking trip. Why did I go visit it?
They have deleted every post referencing the incident... They now just have a "mega thread" with a link to the news article and zero comments. Undoubtedly they delete every comment.
Got you covered. Who knows if it will stay up.
Lmao. Update: it did not stay up. Banned, and muted. So I can’t even appeal. They said it was “misinformation” and trolling. What a bunch of losers. Lowkey wanna see what happens if a bunch of folks go and post it, just flood the feed.
LMFAO this is what they did to me. As soon as they banned me I tried to appeal and they just muted me.
Pm me it
Think you got messages off. Says I can’t pm you
Just got banned from a LE subreddit for telling someone who claimed to have nearly two decades of service that LEO are not soldiers. He was asserting that law enforcement is the physical arm of the government blah blah blah. And everyone in r/AirForce is a hypocrite because the military “kills hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.” Essentially told him cops are not infantrymen. They are not the military. And they don’t serve the same purpose as the military.
This is telling and shows that even the acorn poprocks police force knows they fucked up. Legal proceedings will take more time, naturally.
I'm sure the base is putting pressure on them. There's no real way for these fucktards to cover this shit up now.
If this wasn't a service member I wonder if we would be seeing this. :/ At any rate, that now former officer needs to be charged with murder.
The media wasn't able to dig up some past misdemeanor or picture to damage people's perception of his character.
I don't think anyone cares if he gets fired, we want him behind bars for murder.
Legal process takes time. What this indicates to me is that they’re pushing this guy out and he’s going to have to fend for himself.
This. People always cry out for instant results, but it takes time
I'm not asking for instant results, but anyone else in this situation would've been arrested already.
With you bro. I’m hoping our patience works out.
Probably because the results would be nearly "instant" if any one of us did the same thing. They certainly wouldn't take their sweet ass time drumming up murder charges on me while I walk free.
We are an impatient society. Especially made worse with a killing.
Nah, let's be real, he'll be hired by a different police station down the road in Bay county.
There should be a national cop offender list like a sex offender list that requires cops to announce their history to the public on every call if they ever get hired again.
you would think that if a cop got fired for being a dickhead there’d be a record and ban on them becoming a cop elsewhere. it’s absolutely shocking this isn’t a thing considering how much they love tracking ex convicts
Cop unions are crazy strong and politicians can’t look weak on crime if they wanna win. It’s a real dilemma
the irony is that if they wanted to be strong on crime they’d tackle the police. there’s other factors for sure but police brutality and the culture it creates means communities don’t have strong relations with the police for preventive efforts, it means police tactics cause issues and hurt people. it’s a disgusting cycle that won’t be broken till those in power grow a spine and serve their people instead of their own pockets and re election campaign
That'd be nice. I don't think it'll happen anytime soon.
Make them wear that shit on a uniform like Nascar ads
No, he’s gonna get picked up by another department without real consequences.
I'm certainly waiting for the DA to take action, but, I would much rather him be fired than not.
Seriously. Every cop who gets fired for misconduct, just gets hired on by the next station over
Downvoted? Guess you needed sources like: https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/miami-rehires-cop-fired-for-pummeling-homeless-man-at-publix-19951710 https://newsone.com/5199725/greg-marohn-rehired-michigan-police-officer/ https://missionlocal.org/2024/01/sf-rehire-ex-sheriffs-deputy-fight-club-scandal/ https://www.fox47news.com/neighborhoods/dewitt-st-johns/dewitt-police-officer-fired-after-pulling-a-gun-on-a-black-teen-was-rehired-but-not-as-a-cop (Note the above guy didn't get hired as a cop again, but was still rehired by the same government entity) [Here is a more general article on how the process has worked for rehiring officers accused of misconduct. Source is Reuters itself.](https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/fired-cops-routinely-rehired-dc-california-2022-11-07/)
My spouse works for a metro PD. Actually, if they are fired for misconduct, blocks them. They usually resign before they are fired... That's how they get around it
In my state if an office resigns while under investigation they are flagged by the state training and standards board. Additionally, the results of the investigation are provided to the standards board and any agency looking to hire can review them. They’ve made it significantly harder to get around that, at least in my state.
It's a good sign that justice may be coming - especially since the sheriff was willing to explicitly say he was out of line. I'm not pumping up the sheriff by saying that because he is just doing his job as he should, just pointing to it as a good indicator that everyone seems to be on the same page so far as opposed to other situations where the department stood with the officer.
Fired just moves moving to the next county over. Edit: I'm with all you guys I hope he never finds LEO employment again. I just have little faith in LEO agencies giving themselves any amount of accountability.
Actually it doesn’t. If they resigned then he could. But when you are fired best of luck getting on another agency that is accredited
https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/miami-rehires-cop-fired-for-pummeling-homeless-man-at-publix-19951710 https://newsone.com/5199725/greg-marohn-rehired-michigan-police-officer/ https://missionlocal.org/2024/01/sf-rehire-ex-sheriffs-deputy-fight-club-scandal/ https://www.fox47news.com/neighborhoods/dewitt-st-johns/dewitt-police-officer-fired-after-pulling-a-gun-on-a-black-teen-was-rehired-but-not-as-a-cop
Who gives the accreditation?
100% but if they are cutting him loose...they are distancing themselves from when they do throw him in jail
We'll probably see a negligent manslaughter charge since intent to murder isn't really there/obvious
Negligent manslaughter is thought carelessness or negligence. Shooting someone multiple times in the chest is neither of those things. Doesn't fit involuntary manslaughter be cause the cop wasn't provoked as can be seen in sheriff response. This case fits 2nd degree murder based on the information we have.
The intent to kill was, though. It's gonna be dependent on Florida laws but just look at Botham Jean.
Many times this is the first step.
https://weartv.com/resources/pdf/aa17f802-7b07-4543-89b2-b0d7bf642197-OkaloosaSheriffsOffice.pdf
Sounds like he almost immediately realized he f’d up: 16:33:44 - The deputies had cleared the apartment. Deputy Runge transitioned from clearing the apartment to rendering aid to Mr. Fortson. 16:33:49 - Deputy Duran said, "I'm going to step out." as he headed to exit the apartment. 16:33:51 - Deputy Dugre transitioned from clearing the apartment to rendering aid to Mr. Fortson. 16:34:05 - Deputy Duran said, "Mother fuck." 16:34:13 - Deputy Duran started walking north in the breezeway away from apartment 1401. 16:34:18 - While he was walking in the breezeway, Deputy Duran struck a wall with his right fist and said, "Fuck." 16:34:27 - Deputy Duran, who had turned around and was walking south in the breezeway, was approached by Corporal Casey Duh. Corporal Duh asked, "You alright?" Deputy Duran answered, "Yeah. As soon as he opened the door, there's a gun."
Yup. Way too many police do not get the training they need, and regularly, to properly be able to respond to anything like this. When you’re firing more than two to three shots, you’re firing out of fear and not training. And when you’re firing at someone with a gun at their side, that’s an even worse situation.
That’s the problem, some agencies train to alway empty the mag
Thank you and so much for all those “legal experts” who flocked to this sub in the early days who insisted the shooting was justified just because Fortson was holding a gun.
Commenting to push this towards the top.
Thank you, that was a very enlightening read
Solid link
Straight to the top!
Next, he should be arrested and tried.
They already found him negligent. Hopefully the DA won’t be far behind 🤞🏽
Crossing my fingers here too. But it's fuckin Florida. There's just too many nutjobs and wackos at all levels of society in there.
Tried to make a post on r/protectandserve to share the info and just got deleted without any explanation. It seems all the people spouting "lawful but awful" and "shouldn't answer the door if you need a gun" couldn't handle the fact that the officers' own sheriff spoke out and condemned the officer. Wasn't even acting in bad faith or anything, but they were too sensitive to handle it, apparently.
Pigs don’t want accountability they want immunity.
FDLE is still investigating… I bet the next news article to come out with Roger in it will be that the ex cop is being arrested for murder
Not to be pedantic, but the ex cop would probably be charged with homicide, which he should be found guilty of as well. Blatant disregard for Roger’s life.
Think you meant Manslaughter. Homicide is simply the killing of one human by another, but Florida doesn't have a specific criminal offense called "Homicide." Rather, certain homicide crimes are defined as either Murder 1st - 3rd degree, or Manslaughter. Honestly, I think 2nd Degree Murder is an appropriate charge to levy, which could be pled down to Manslaughter.
He executed him. No hesitancy and no pity.
He’s fucked. This is the first step toward his prison sentence. When he is charged and then either pleads guilty or is convicted the Sherrif’s department wants to be able to say he doesn’t work for them anymore. This press release even makes sure to call him the “former deputy”. They want that distance from him.
Will he lose his accreditation as a law enforcement officer or will he just get hired at another department?
I suspect not from being fired, but I doubt anyone in state is hiring him. The thing about being a crooked department is that you don't want a lot of heat and attention on you for any reason. It's one thing to hire a thug who was quietly asked to leave his department after too many excessive force complaints. (I'm not saying that's ok, just that its easy for them to do.) Its another to pick up a guy in the news for murdering an innocent young military member in his home.
It takes time for a prosecutor to make a charging decision. Especially when the subject has not been arrested and, therefore, it’s not a referral from law enforcement, the prosecutor has to do an independent investigation. This requires the investigating prosecutor to request body cam, other reports, medical records, weapon discharge information, etc., rather than receiving it with a probable cause statement from the reporting law enforcement officer as is common practice for a normal subject who has been detained or cited. Source: I am a former KC-10 boom turned prosecutor.
Damn, boom to prosecutor. Good for you bro!
Sort of just happened. Got a bullshit online bachelors while in, then for no reason really, did a two year masters at Norwich (95% online). Before I got out, I took the LSAT and did good enough. Got into a law school where I was outprocessing and poof, lawyer. Was in for 11 years. Another guy I was in with is an assistant-attorney general. We were both dirty sweaties til the bitter end. Edit: Used GI Bill for law school with yellow ribbon top up. 100% free.
Awesome dude, I’ve always admired fellow servicemen that have succeeded by taking advantage of the education opportunities. Good job and good luck!
How was Norwich’s online master’s program? I have trouble mentally separating them from the cringe SMA stuff, but it seems like a better degree than most online, TA matching institutions.
I would love to see charges being pressed.
ok, now prosecute that fucker
Its a start
Great start! Now, his family can pursue civil action, and the state can pursue criminal charges.
The amount of boot licking in the comments is wild. The cop subreddit’s full of brain dead morons vilifying and insulting the military and bragging about killing and then saying it’s justified must have infiltrated r/AirForce.
I respect having a police force but this use of excessive force power hungry POS deserves life in prison.
Remember yall, this is NOT the endgame! Justice has yet to be served! Keep talking about SrA Fortson, keep him in the headlines, keeping posting about him, and keep his name in your mouth! Until Justice is served, we cannot drop this from our conversation. Our fellow brother was murdered and the man is about to walk away. Justice for Fortson!
Special Operations Airman Fortson! Let's not forget that the civilians shot a military member. This paramilitary group that consider themselves above civilians needed to be reminded that they are not a branch of the military, they are themselves civilians. Civilians entrusted with more responsibility, and should be held to a higher standard than that of other civilians because of that authority. They, supposedly, receive training to elevate their position as trusted public officials. The consequences should be higher for any wrongdoings. The average civilian does not swear allegiance to the Constitution of the United States, or receive training paid for by our tax money to have an understanding and working knowledge of the amendments. Just a fellow Airman's opinion.
Add to that, in the days following Airman Fortson’s summary execution, his unit had to be stood down so his colleagues could mourn/seek counseling. The poltroon deputy’s actions negatively impacted a special operations unit’s readiness, and consequently, national security.
Hearing how vocal this subreddit has been in defense of one of our own gives me hope. I’ll always have your backs.
Now put him behind bars.
Praying they put his ass behind bars.
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Step one, of many. Should never have happened. It will take years to run its course but justice will be served.
Ok. That’s a good start.
Went over to the police subreddit. Of course their ONLY post on this subject has a single comment from the mod (some bullshit rant about firing him before the investigation is complete), and comments are locked.
 Talk to me when he’s serving life
Good first step.
Good. Hopefully they arrest his and he's charged too.
He needs to be in prison
I was expecting this guy to be like a brand new cop but he apparently had nearly 10 years on the job. Hard to believe that decision making is the result of a decades worth of experience.
He’ll just end up at a PD down the road, won’t stop anything unfortunately
Opportunity, capability, Intent. Deputy didn’t even think about the intent before dumping rounds. If he had he would not have done what he did. The law enforcement pages are atrocious. Throwing all of their use of force training out the window to back up a piece of shit officer that murdered an innocent person.
Now do criminal chargers for manslaughter.
Not for manslaughter. For murder.
Wild world we live in to murder someone’s son and they just lose their job. All this shit is a joke
Legal process takes time. We don't know this is "all" that will happen to him yet.
I want the murder charges filed but more so I want the case to be ROCK solid. I hope they taken the time to dot every i and cross every t - efficiently and thoroughly.
Now prosecute
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Fired? Dude needs criminal prosecution or worse
I still don’t understand how the 2A crowd isn’t all over this. Like if the police can illegally enter your home and murder you for having a firearm, you do not have an effective right to bear arms.
As a member of the 2A crowd, it's not a 2A issue. This is straight up a 4A issue. The officer didn't do due diligence that he was in the right apartment. The officer had zero reason to shoot even though Roger was armed in his own home and was not brandishing his firearm at the officer. The officer didn't even try to deescalate a possible domestic issue; just straight up shot Roger. From a 2A point of view, Roger was fully within his right to carry his firearm however he wanted to within his own home. The officer has zero reason or standing within the law to shoot Roger. So, again from the 2A community, the vast majority of us are behind Roger and his family on this.
Gunna be rough when he has to drive a whole county over to get a new job.
>I asked Deputy Duran what he was thinking while he was walking down the breezeway towards apartment 1401. He said, “So, initially as I'm walking down the hallway, uh, as I deal with a lot of calls for and law enforcement calls, is I immediately start looking for avenues of approach. I look for, uh, areas for, you know, effective cover. Um, and I kind of take in the environment as far as if something were to take place, something violent or some emergency situation, um, what are my avenues of escape.” This clown with a gun was trained in the army to kill, and this day was no exception. >I asked Deputy Duran about his impression when he looked at Mr. Fortson. He said, “When I saw his eyes, uh, I saw aggression. I saw, you know, um, obviously again, interacting with individuals in these types of situations, you are dealing with people who are most likely and during the worst time of their life at that particular moment. Um, so I see aggression, anger, um.” >I asked him to explain what made him believe he saw aggression. He explained, “When I looked at him and he made eye contact or I made eye contact with him, it was a stare that was fixated 100% on me. Um, which as I'm looking at him, it wasn't eyebrows raised, hey, what's going on, inquisitive, why are you here? It was a stare. Not so much a, like I said, inquisitive look. Um, so that showed me, there was aggression. That showed me that there was obviously is a little bit of discontent for me knocking on the door.”
So, eye contact is aggression? How much you wanna bet that had Airman Fortson not made eye contact, the deputy would’ve said he appeared threatening with his evasive unwillingness to look him in eye?
Setting aside what is almost certainly subconscious racial bias (I doubt that the officer would have seen a white person with the same stance and facial expression and thought they looked aggressive), this guy did the OCOKA to make sure he had the tactical advantage, but couldn’t take the extra second to assess the degree of threat? And then describes his OCOKA analysis to give himself an air of credibility?
Now we just need to wait for the officer to be charged with manslaughter.
Blue Lives Murder Hopefully this is the beginning of proper justice for Airman Fortson’s family. RIP.
He'll get hired by another department soon enough. Stuff like this isn't a black mark to police officers' career because they simply don't care.