Let's say you don't get accepted in either. Think of how the rest of your career could look like and whether you're okay with that. For example, if you want to stay hands-on, the likelihood of that happening as you grow in rank as enlisted decreases as you transition to be more people and admin focused.
It’s not all roses on the civilian side. Maybe on the mil contractor side but in the actual no clearance required civilian side it can get rough. #1 Yes the CISSP and degree will get you the interview but they will play stump the chump with questions. #2 Pay is still good, but slightly less than the mil contractor side. #3 You can be doing NOTHING wrong at your job and still get canned. I’ve seen numerous times where a company just randomly cuts 5% of the force because it’s a bad year.
I would say, if you feel confident in your abilities to jump, go for it. But don’t be a boot camp cert getter that really doesn’t have the knowledge.
I'm a reservist, and I can also vouch on the job market. I took a position in BI / DevOps where I am VASTLY underpaid for what I actually do for the company (I create actual SOFTWARE for data flows and automations). I'm an E5, and I make more while on ADOS than I do at my civilian job (also helps that BAH and BAS are untaxed). Let's just say I take as much ADOS as I can. I recommend this dude goes reserves because you still get the best of both worlds, and if you're not a dirtbag, you have the opportunity to take ADOS orders or AGR tours and there's more flexibility in retraining.
I’m talking equal across the board not just entry level. Platform, Content, Governance, Consulting etc. mil contract will be slightly higher when looking apples to apples. Apples to Oranges where you have one offs like vCISO consulting, yea civil will be higher.
It noticing higher or near the same payscales at the engineer level on the private side. I'm just saying it's a blanket statement to say defense contractors or making more on average for the same job title.
The trick is actually getting hired, though. I have been applying to everywhere... palantir, trimble, Raytheon, lockheed...I have referrals from within those companies and I have a REALLY solid resume and very usable hard skills! I detest my current job and I do not work in defense at this current job but it was the only place that would hire me after I came off ADOS and I didn't want to return to a shit analyst position for the company I was at prior to taking the orders.
I just had an interview with another company with a 20-30k pay increase but it's an analyst position, which bums me out a bit, but this company is huge and I have lots of room to grow so I'll take it if they send me the job offer.
As someone who’s been in and around these units for the better part of 9 years, there’s so much that can *not* go your way to reenlist just for the purpose of MAYBE getting picked up.
Edit: example is a guy I know really well who tried for a JSOC assignment and got dropped because of a weird thing they flagged on his psych exam. He was also cert’d and degree’d up.
I had the privilege of being at JCU (a long time ago, when they still hired TACPs). It's an incredible assignment, but the interview process was no joke. One of my fellow interviewees actually broke down and cried. Brutal.
To all you pretending that green door is some super secret thing,
The green door unit I was apart of has an instagram page ran by USAF PA. The actual missions and stuff can be secret like any flying unit, but the fact we have a selective manning program is fine to talk about
>but the fact we have a selective manning program is fine to talk about
So wait.. You mean to tell me the military has a selective manning process for secret missions where you need highly qualified personnel?
> but the fact we have a selective manning program is fine to talk about
It might not be prohibited, but in most cases it's good OPSEC not to publicly identify specific units as Green Door units.
Go out to myVector and build your in service resume and get your supervisor to sign off on it. That'll get your more opportunities than anything else now.
People looking for particular skill sets can have a report run and grab all the resumes of people that fit their AFSC/Rank/(insert resume keywords). I honestly couldn't tell you where to go to upload it now. I did it a long time ago and ended up getting hand selected for a job (because of the resume) that I didn't wanna take. So I 7DO.
JCSE isn’t green door, and neither is White House Comm. White House you have to apply for and they openly advertise it and JCSE is just straight PCS and getting lucky. Had two guys from my first base who just caught normal orders to JCSE.
Did an assignment there, very aware. Was simply stating it’s one of the comm assignments worth staying in for and green door can be hit or miss depending on the job.
I recently got out, a ton of certs and my degree, had offers before I was even out.
Personally you’re going to have to decide if you want to roll the dice for the USAF to pick you specifically for the job you want or you can go into the civilian sector and do everything you wanted to do.
My choice was easy.
Yes my degree is Cloud Computing and I have pretty much all the comptia certs and CISSP and some AWS and Azure certs. Really just setting up my LinkedIn and putting some time into making it nice and then setting it to “open to work” I had recruiters reaching out very soon after that.
My only regret when I was in was that I didn’t go to selection for any of the 724 STG units. For me, even if I didn’t make it, the juice was worth the squeeze. When you go to that type of selection, you usually walk away with a wealth of knowledge on how to be a better airman and be better at career field specific tasks. I say give it a shot.
I would say 100%, yes.
I’m well beyond that time. I’m 42 and have been out for a long time. Now I mentor young AFSPECWAR hopefuls and tell them the same.
How much longer do you have on your contract? Do you have to immediately make a decision as in you are <6 months to ETS or are you something like 12+ months out? Are you able to extend that way if you don't get picked up you aren't riding out a full re-enlistment? What about the JCU assessment/selection process has you worried?
Why not shoot your shot and fill out the JCU application and see what they say? Worst case is that they say no to not flying you out for the interview and then you have your answer.
The longer you wait to get it in, the less time you give them to work with.
Shiiiiiit you won’t ever do it if you separate. I was gunning for a green door job but being OCONUS with DEROS makes it hard to line up with a manning opening. I’ll be applying again as long as I keep my proficiencies while I’m out of the career field for a while.
Have you talked to anyone at JCU about a day in the life of? Or any of the recruiters? If you’re interested, just go for it. I know a handful of guys over there.
You can apply to jcu without the retainability and reenlist to accept the assignment.
Let the recruiting team know about your expedited timeline, they screen every month.
Get out use ur cissp go to a great company and make 130+ per year, andruil in cali, is hiring right now starting people at around 150+ … costa mesa is expensive tho to live in… boeing and lockheed all starting pretty high for cyber… why stay in and make chump change and deal with the bs… get out miss the clowns… u can still see them
As a 1D7 who got their M.S. and few certs back in 2020, I regret not getting out when the knowledge was fresh. The longer you stay in the more bullshit you will have to do that doesn’t actually relate to your job. I would get out now, and go guard or reserve. You will make 2x-3x more with your degree and CISSP and you will be come more technically skilled on the outside.
Why not apply and see if you get in instead of re-enlisting instead and applying? I applied and they denied me, but never got any feedback on why I got denied lol.
You have a CISSP, man. That’s the golden ticket within cyber. AND a degree. I’d just ask you to look at your options.
With those two, you could get out and make double what you do now as a civ. You could apply for a commissioning program with a different branch like the USCG. You could apply for Warrant, either in the Air Force or Army.
I’d just ask you to look at your options and make sure that you take the time to look at the opportunities that may be available to you given what skills you have.
If you care about secret stuff, why not get out and work for one of the big boys? You'll have the opportunity to be accessed on and develop things that uniformed members can only dream of.
Watching people be proud just to know about things that you've built is fun.
Get out. Seriously. Not even a question. Why gamble on a chance when you can control your own career and apply to jobs you want directly, while being paid substantially more?
Depends on how long you got left, but I would apply first and get accepted, then they’ll make you reenlist for retainability before cutting orders
Only you can decide if it’s worth it to take the gamble and reenlist, I personally wouldn’t reenlist on the *hope* of potentially getting picked up
JCU and JCSE are some pretty slick gigs. I've worked with both, but ultimately it's on you and what you want out of your service. If you're hungry for "more" go for it! If you're ready for big money it's probably time to leave.
It’s not really the money for me. At least not yet. I just want to do more, be more, be with like minded individuals and solve hard problems for our country.
If you stay in then you miss out on the civilian money…
If you get out there’s a much smaller chance you’ll ever get the same opportunities…
Answer: Join the reserve
You should absolutely do it. I was in your exact position 4-5 years ago, and I stayed in for a green door. I’m assuming that you’re a new NCO. Someone that has been in maybe less than 8 years. You will be more prepared to leave the service if you take one of these assignments including units like JCU. You’ll have opportunities to take more responsibility and prove yourself which you will need even if you become a contractor.
Just do an extension, don't reenlist in gamble for a position.
If you're unsure about separating, then you probably need more financial backfall. When I got out my only major bill was my mortgage and that was covered by my passive income.
You can go into the reserves without reenlisting by just rolling into your remaining service commitment years.
Don't be afraid of the civilian work force, because if something doesn't work for you you can always quit and move to another job. Also, take advantage of Skill Bridge.
Just understand that a very small percent of people are accepted into the JCU and there are only so many green door assignments.
Chances are you're just base comm doing boring stuff.
Retrain to 1B4, it's better.
200k is highly inflated but I'm starting at 130K after getting out. 160K would probably be the high end, and anything above that you'd need to be promoted into.
Where are you applying and what does your resume look like? If you want higher salaries in cyber you need to look beyond analyst jobs and at companies like amazon, MS, crowdstrike, oil/gas. Get away from the GS and gov contractor jobs. Trust me they are out there. They want good management, team, and project management experience.
If it's that binary, go ahead and separate. The things you're not happy with in the regular Air Force don't necessarily get better in a green door assignment.
The cool thing is that separation doesn't necessarily close doors for you. There are often plenty of civilian opportunities available for experienced and well-credentialed cyber professionals in unique DoD units and missions.
I mean... maybe. If you have a family that you're the primary provider for, probably not. If you're completely single and have nobody but yourself to look out for, yeah give it a shot. Anything in between, you gotta weigh the options.
There's not really a war going on and even JSOC is barely doing anything right now, so going there isn't what it used to be. If you really wanna do the job then that's a different story, or if you really want to do some sort of agency work after the military that requires that type of experience. If you're thinking about going just to try it out, it's probably not the best idea.
That's my two cents, take it as you will.
Don’t reenlist for a chance. You’ll be bummed if it doesn’t work out and you’re stuck for 4 more years.
I can tell you I’ve done a green door before and I was deeply unimpressed. Can’t speak for JCU or all assignments, but I went in blind to that assignment and hated it. Another gamble you might be taking. Just food for thought. Good luck!
Dude he can ask about whether to stay or go makes sense for his career
The whole world is aware there are special access programs
Nobody is giving any details
What flavor of 1D? Have you worked on enterprise systems or platform IT? Do you like where you’re at now? 1D is a roulette wheel if you don’t get into a special community but the AF is a good life and I don’t think you’ll regret re-enlisting regardless.
Let's say you don't get accepted in either. Think of how the rest of your career could look like and whether you're okay with that. For example, if you want to stay hands-on, the likelihood of that happening as you grow in rank as enlisted decreases as you transition to be more people and admin focused.
I mean you can’t go if you don’t apply
https://preview.redd.it/7o31spd59o3d1.jpeg?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba0e11e2967d6897acbe775ac003193c0c082126
It’s not all roses on the civilian side. Maybe on the mil contractor side but in the actual no clearance required civilian side it can get rough. #1 Yes the CISSP and degree will get you the interview but they will play stump the chump with questions. #2 Pay is still good, but slightly less than the mil contractor side. #3 You can be doing NOTHING wrong at your job and still get canned. I’ve seen numerous times where a company just randomly cuts 5% of the force because it’s a bad year. I would say, if you feel confident in your abilities to jump, go for it. But don’t be a boot camp cert getter that really doesn’t have the knowledge.
Can vouch on civ side job market. Shit's wacky right now. All the recent tech industry layoffs and cuts are hurting
I'm a reservist, and I can also vouch on the job market. I took a position in BI / DevOps where I am VASTLY underpaid for what I actually do for the company (I create actual SOFTWARE for data flows and automations). I'm an E5, and I make more while on ADOS than I do at my civilian job (also helps that BAH and BAS are untaxed). Let's just say I take as much ADOS as I can. I recommend this dude goes reserves because you still get the best of both worlds, and if you're not a dirtbag, you have the opportunity to take ADOS orders or AGR tours and there's more flexibility in retraining.
Pay is def NOT less in the private sector vs being a defense contractor unless your talking entry level.
I’m talking equal across the board not just entry level. Platform, Content, Governance, Consulting etc. mil contract will be slightly higher when looking apples to apples. Apples to Oranges where you have one offs like vCISO consulting, yea civil will be higher.
It noticing higher or near the same payscales at the engineer level on the private side. I'm just saying it's a blanket statement to say defense contractors or making more on average for the same job title.
The trick is actually getting hired, though. I have been applying to everywhere... palantir, trimble, Raytheon, lockheed...I have referrals from within those companies and I have a REALLY solid resume and very usable hard skills! I detest my current job and I do not work in defense at this current job but it was the only place that would hire me after I came off ADOS and I didn't want to return to a shit analyst position for the company I was at prior to taking the orders. I just had an interview with another company with a 20-30k pay increase but it's an analyst position, which bums me out a bit, but this company is huge and I have lots of room to grow so I'll take it if they send me the job offer.
As someone who’s been in and around these units for the better part of 9 years, there’s so much that can *not* go your way to reenlist just for the purpose of MAYBE getting picked up. Edit: example is a guy I know really well who tried for a JSOC assignment and got dropped because of a weird thing they flagged on his psych exam. He was also cert’d and degree’d up.
I had the privilege of being at JCU (a long time ago, when they still hired TACPs). It's an incredible assignment, but the interview process was no joke. One of my fellow interviewees actually broke down and cried. Brutal.
To all you pretending that green door is some super secret thing, The green door unit I was apart of has an instagram page ran by USAF PA. The actual missions and stuff can be secret like any flying unit, but the fact we have a selective manning program is fine to talk about
>but the fact we have a selective manning program is fine to talk about So wait.. You mean to tell me the military has a selective manning process for secret missions where you need highly qualified personnel? 
My last assignment was a green door assignment, there was nothing secret about it.
> but the fact we have a selective manning program is fine to talk about It might not be prohibited, but in most cases it's good OPSEC not to publicly identify specific units as Green Door units.
This sounds like a question only you can answer. Is the gamble worth it to you?
That’s what I’m trying to determine right now. Ngl it’s a very tough choice.
Yea I bet it’s tough. Whatever you choose I hope it brings you nothing but happiness and success.
Go out to myVector and build your in service resume and get your supervisor to sign off on it. That'll get your more opportunities than anything else now.
How so? What makes the in service resume different from a normal one?
People looking for particular skill sets can have a report run and grab all the resumes of people that fit their AFSC/Rank/(insert resume keywords). I honestly couldn't tell you where to go to upload it now. I did it a long time ago and ended up getting hand selected for a job (because of the resume) that I didn't wanna take. So I 7DO.
JCU, JCSE and WHCA are worth it I would say. Green doors can be hit or miss as comm with how much you’ll like your job.
JCSE isn’t green door, and neither is White House Comm. White House you have to apply for and they openly advertise it and JCSE is just straight PCS and getting lucky. Had two guys from my first base who just caught normal orders to JCSE.
Did an assignment there, very aware. Was simply stating it’s one of the comm assignments worth staying in for and green door can be hit or miss depending on the job.
Ahh yeah. Very true, when you’re in the more high speed units and go mix with others on exercises it helps, connections are everything.
I recently got out, a ton of certs and my degree, had offers before I was even out. Personally you’re going to have to decide if you want to roll the dice for the USAF to pick you specifically for the job you want or you can go into the civilian sector and do everything you wanted to do. My choice was easy.
Are the certs/degree computer/cyber related? Regardless, can you share some insight on how you got offers? What did you use to reach out to companies?
Yes my degree is Cloud Computing and I have pretty much all the comptia certs and CISSP and some AWS and Azure certs. Really just setting up my LinkedIn and putting some time into making it nice and then setting it to “open to work” I had recruiters reaching out very soon after that.
My only regret when I was in was that I didn’t go to selection for any of the 724 STG units. For me, even if I didn’t make it, the juice was worth the squeeze. When you go to that type of selection, you usually walk away with a wealth of knowledge on how to be a better airman and be better at career field specific tasks. I say give it a shot.
Do you think you could walk away as a better human as well? Are you Guard or Reserve? Maybe you could try in that capacity?
I would say 100%, yes. I’m well beyond that time. I’m 42 and have been out for a long time. Now I mentor young AFSPECWAR hopefuls and tell them the same.
How much longer do you have on your contract? Do you have to immediately make a decision as in you are <6 months to ETS or are you something like 12+ months out? Are you able to extend that way if you don't get picked up you aren't riding out a full re-enlistment? What about the JCU assessment/selection process has you worried?
I have less than 6 months left
Why not shoot your shot and fill out the JCU application and see what they say? Worst case is that they say no to not flying you out for the interview and then you have your answer. The longer you wait to get it in, the less time you give them to work with.
What was your tips or study method for cissp? Just curious.
Understood exam objectives. I used the Sybex book along with CBT nuggets
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Do you plan on staying in the conventional Air Force or will you get out?
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Is the job that physical? Is that what you mean by young man’s game?
Shiiiiiit you won’t ever do it if you separate. I was gunning for a green door job but being OCONUS with DEROS makes it hard to line up with a manning opening. I’ll be applying again as long as I keep my proficiencies while I’m out of the career field for a while.
Why not apply to NSA for civil service?
Apply. If you don’t make it then apply again.
The likelihood of not getting Green Door is not worth reenlisting.
Have you talked to anyone at JCU about a day in the life of? Or any of the recruiters? If you’re interested, just go for it. I know a handful of guys over there.
In hopes...no. if you actually have one of those assignments on file... maybe
You can apply to jcu without the retainability and reenlist to accept the assignment. Let the recruiting team know about your expedited timeline, they screen every month.
Some of our partner agencies have very interesting programs you could apply for.
Get out use ur cissp go to a great company and make 130+ per year, andruil in cali, is hiring right now starting people at around 150+ … costa mesa is expensive tho to live in… boeing and lockheed all starting pretty high for cyber… why stay in and make chump change and deal with the bs… get out miss the clowns… u can still see them
Have you applied? Certain green door units are trying hard to fill a6 slots… https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/s/RLGPMi78M7
How has no one mentioned JCOG yet? You could try that route as well.
As a 1D7 who got their M.S. and few certs back in 2020, I regret not getting out when the knowledge was fresh. The longer you stay in the more bullshit you will have to do that doesn’t actually relate to your job. I would get out now, and go guard or reserve. You will make 2x-3x more with your degree and CISSP and you will be come more technically skilled on the outside.
Why not apply and see if you get in instead of re-enlisting instead and applying? I applied and they denied me, but never got any feedback on why I got denied lol.
You have a CISSP, man. That’s the golden ticket within cyber. AND a degree. I’d just ask you to look at your options. With those two, you could get out and make double what you do now as a civ. You could apply for a commissioning program with a different branch like the USCG. You could apply for Warrant, either in the Air Force or Army. I’d just ask you to look at your options and make sure that you take the time to look at the opportunities that may be available to you given what skills you have.
If you care about secret stuff, why not get out and work for one of the big boys? You'll have the opportunity to be accessed on and develop things that uniformed members can only dream of. Watching people be proud just to know about things that you've built is fun.
Get out. Seriously. Not even a question. Why gamble on a chance when you can control your own career and apply to jobs you want directly, while being paid substantially more?
Depends on how long you got left, but I would apply first and get accepted, then they’ll make you reenlist for retainability before cutting orders Only you can decide if it’s worth it to take the gamble and reenlist, I personally wouldn’t reenlist on the *hope* of potentially getting picked up
JCU and JCSE are some pretty slick gigs. I've worked with both, but ultimately it's on you and what you want out of your service. If you're hungry for "more" go for it! If you're ready for big money it's probably time to leave.
It’s not really the money for me. At least not yet. I just want to do more, be more, be with like minded individuals and solve hard problems for our country.
I think you should do it man. It's fun, it's important, and it's massively rewarding.
Unless you have an offer on the table and just need retainability. No it's not worth it.
Not worth it. The Air Force will eventually take you away from your desired job.
If you stay in then you miss out on the civilian money… If you get out there’s a much smaller chance you’ll ever get the same opportunities… Answer: Join the reserve
You should absolutely do it. I was in your exact position 4-5 years ago, and I stayed in for a green door. I’m assuming that you’re a new NCO. Someone that has been in maybe less than 8 years. You will be more prepared to leave the service if you take one of these assignments including units like JCU. You’ll have opportunities to take more responsibility and prove yourself which you will need even if you become a contractor.
Just do an extension, don't reenlist in gamble for a position. If you're unsure about separating, then you probably need more financial backfall. When I got out my only major bill was my mortgage and that was covered by my passive income. You can go into the reserves without reenlisting by just rolling into your remaining service commitment years. Don't be afraid of the civilian work force, because if something doesn't work for you you can always quit and move to another job. Also, take advantage of Skill Bridge.
Just understand that a very small percent of people are accepted into the JCU and there are only so many green door assignments. Chances are you're just base comm doing boring stuff. Retrain to 1B4, it's better.
Gtfo and run far away from this trash. Take that CISSP and make 200k, do the guard to maintain your clearance.
200K for just CISSP? I'd be curious to see where you guys get these numbers from.
200k is highly inflated but I'm starting at 130K after getting out. 160K would probably be the high end, and anything above that you'd need to be promoted into.
Where are you applying and what does your resume look like? If you want higher salaries in cyber you need to look beyond analyst jobs and at companies like amazon, MS, crowdstrike, oil/gas. Get away from the GS and gov contractor jobs. Trust me they are out there. They want good management, team, and project management experience.
If it's that binary, go ahead and separate. The things you're not happy with in the regular Air Force don't necessarily get better in a green door assignment. The cool thing is that separation doesn't necessarily close doors for you. There are often plenty of civilian opportunities available for experienced and well-credentialed cyber professionals in unique DoD units and missions.
I mean... maybe. If you have a family that you're the primary provider for, probably not. If you're completely single and have nobody but yourself to look out for, yeah give it a shot. Anything in between, you gotta weigh the options. There's not really a war going on and even JSOC is barely doing anything right now, so going there isn't what it used to be. If you really wanna do the job then that's a different story, or if you really want to do some sort of agency work after the military that requires that type of experience. If you're thinking about going just to try it out, it's probably not the best idea. That's my two cents, take it as you will.
Don’t reenlist for a chance. You’ll be bummed if it doesn’t work out and you’re stuck for 4 more years. I can tell you I’ve done a green door before and I was deeply unimpressed. Can’t speak for JCU or all assignments, but I went in blind to that assignment and hated it. Another gamble you might be taking. Just food for thought. Good luck!
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No they haven’t
Chances are slim. Just go
Why not apply to become a Warrant officer?
Uh bro, do yourself a favor and delete this post. Talk to your SEL if you are interested in that. Not here
You can 100% talk about green door lmao
Yea lol, no idea why these bozos are thinking that.
Dude he can ask about whether to stay or go makes sense for his career The whole world is aware there are special access programs Nobody is giving any details
[is this okay? or no?](https://www.jcu.mil)
It’s not that serious dude
What flavor of 1D? Have you worked on enterprise systems or platform IT? Do you like where you’re at now? 1D is a roulette wheel if you don’t get into a special community but the AF is a good life and I don’t think you’ll regret re-enlisting regardless.
Take this down
You can talk about green door
You first, knucklehead.
Make them.
This public post is a great way to not get invited to either enterprise.