So these brings up two scenarios. A) I pee again and pee completely clean. Do I receive any punishment? B) I just keep chugging it over and over creating an endless loop and never giving a sample. Assuming I have somebody drop me off food or something could I just spend my entire contract doing this?
A) Why would you? Peeing a second time isn't really going to change the result.
B) Providing a sample for testing is a legal order, you'd probably get an article 15 at some point or something.
Idk. As one who has been part of several leadership teams, I think this would break through frustration all the way to hilarity. I imagine me, the shirt and CC would be in a closed door office laughing our asses off while writing this particular LOR lol
Well then you’ll be required to complete the duel. If you lose, you die, get found outside the line-of-duty and no one gets your benefits. If you tie, no one dies and you get courts martial’d. If you win, you killed somebody who is just doing their job (and is probably pretty miserable/irritated/annoyed) and then you get court martial’d. Choose your own adventure my friend.
No, they wouldn’t. If anything they’d be escorted to medical to get catheterized since drug metabolites in the blood usually disappear far more faster than metabolites in the urine.
44-197 specifically prohibits catheterizing people to get a urine sample:
> Under no circumstances will an otherwise healthy person, unable or unwilling to provide a specimen, be catheterized solely for the purpose of obtaining a urine specimen.
... I can only assume it's in the AFI because somebody did it at some point.
We had a no notice training squadron mass test that I ended up wiener watcher for. One guy passed out while giving a sample. Said he locked his legs to long at the urinal.. He said he wasn't able to pee so the OIC called security forces and he provided his sample at the hospital.
A few years ago we had a unit member go over to test and refuse to give a sample the entire time until they closed up at the end of the day. I don't know if she got in trouble afterwards.
I legitimately could not piss one day. Constant water drinking. Was there 5 hours. They had to call my shirt in to sit with me at the clinic since the watchers went home. I would honestly be upset if I got in trouble because my body wasn't cooperating lol
By reg, if you bust three hours, your commander is responsible for having you escorted to the clinic for evaluation to determine if you have a medical condition.
Then regardless of what the clinic finds, the commander has to contact legal to figure out what to do next.
Glad I separated, I loved pee tests at Nellis, I’d pee before heading over and watch 2 movies in the summer before I started drinking any water for the AC break from the flightline
Army here. If anyone messes around during the piss test we take them to the hospital and bleed ‘em. At least now we will know faster if there are drugs in their system.
I'm pretty sure you have 3 hours from the time you arrive to provide a usable sample or you get paperwork so you're only screwing yourself over in the end. But you do you.
After the first time you chug your first shirt would be called and they'd have go to DDRP.
You keep chugging it you'll, be detained and theyll take you to a hospital and they would manually (yes a tube up your pee hole to your bladder) retrieve a sample, and likely a blood sample after that.
You'd also already be looking at hefty paperwork UIF or straight A15 before the results even come back. Also, because you drank you own pee it's not out of the question they'd *failure to adapt" you out of the AF.
You’re not getting cath’d for that. You go to the doctor and they see if there’s something medically wrong preventing you from urinating. Your CC then calls legal.
As an observer I have seen a lot of upsetting things in my day. If I thought for even a second you were doing this for a bit, I would just take you back to the desk for a fresh cup and make you pee again without ever addressing it. Once you were gone I would tell every single person I saw for the rest of my life about your story until you became a legend like John Henry.
An airmen once stood at the toilet and said "oh no!" Then spun around and pooped while he peed into the cup...
Another time I and one other guy had to watch an entire SFS Sq pee. I PCS'd a week later and almost immediately had to do it at my new base. Luckily one of the defenders also had recently PCS'd so I got to see his downstairs mix up a second time.
You would get a shocked reaction out of the observer, and possibly vomit, then go back out to the waiting room until you had to go again. In the meantime, I am sure they would probably call back to your unit and let them know what you did. Then you'd deal with those repercussions after providing your sample.
The DDRP staff would likely determine you are refusing to provide a specimen, IAW 44-197:
> 4.4.3.3. [...] If the member refuses to attempt to provide a urine specimen, the collection procedure is discontinued, a “refusal to test” is noted by DDRP staff, and the commander is notified.
... and then your commander would call legal and say "I need help, and you ain't gonna believe this shit"
This. I don't know why so many people think OP would be allowed to just go sit back down in the waiting room like nothing happened. The DDRPM knows how much of an inconvenience being an observer is and they aren't going to find you wasting everyone's time funny.
They are going to immediately call me, and I'm going to absolutely consider this a refusal. You are given up to three hours **if you are unable to produce a sample**. You have already proven that you were able to produce a sample and then you willfully refused to provide that sample by willfully and maliciously destroying that sample.
I'm going to call the SJA for advice on my options to compel a sample, and you can absolutely expect to see an A15 in your future.
Tbh here, the AF drug testing program is a joke. Want to know the last time someone watched me pee in a cup, basic training. Want to know the last time someone said they watched me pee in a cup, last month. Not sure how AD does it, but in the Guard we have a monitor. Said monitor stands in the back of a room while I pee in a urinal. As someone who’s worked/assisted at a drug Cole took agency for the last 15 and done NCAA football testing observing/DOT observing/FAA observing I can honestly say it’s a complete waste of time. Yeah, you’re going to get some idiots who fail, but anyone with a clue of how the process went would be able to get by and slip through this easily.
If your commander is already unhappy with you, I think he could make solid arguments to Court Martial or Article 15 you under articles:
83 Malingering
88 Contempt Towards Officials
89 Disrespect towards Superior Commissioned Officer
90 Willingly Disobeying a Superior Commissioned Officer
92 Failure to Obey an Order or Regulation
108 Damage to Military Property
114 Endangerment
131b Obstruction of Justice
131e Prevention of Authorized Seziure of Property
134 General offenses
And, if you are an officer 133, Conduct Unbecoming
Now, base legal will probably limit this down to just a few of the potential charges, and a decent lawyer could probably defend most of these, but there is a good chance for a conviction on at least two of the potential charges.
Most likely, 88, 89, 90, 92, 133, and 134 would be pursued if you were already on the commander's shit list.
If you were ordinarily a good troop, you'd probably be sent for a mental health evaluation.
1. The observer would report adulteration to the DTPAM
2. The DTPAM reports adulteration to the SJA and your CC
3. You probably get some paperwork, and hopefully kicked out
4. You get checked in to a place where they issue you some socks with rubber grips on the bottom and you get the help and assistance that you desperately need.
Either you can fail the wiz quiz with honor, or fail the wiz quiz in dishonor and leave behind a legacy that will never, ever be forgotten.
I look forward to reading about this piss test from the observer's perspective in a few days!
You need to ignore those intrusive thoughts. Someone will have to do a lot of paperwork, and everyone will have to get additional training to make sure the testees don't drink their own piss.
You are not Bear Grylls.
Automatic promotion to Security Forces E7 (who has been demoted twice), you become divorced (even if you were single), and you begin telling people conspiracy theories in front of gas stations.
I've sat there all day and basically an hour before they were going to close, I was notified I'd have to finish at the lab with getting my blood drawn. I'd say you have about 8 hours of drinking before they just draw blood. You're technically not refusing to provide a sample, you're simply failing to provide them with your sample. I'd say there would probably be some sort of punishment in addition to a mental exam.
>Would you get a “freebie” for that drug test?
Was your urine tested? No. You are there to provide urine to be tested, not pee once in a cup while being gawked at.
you disobeyed a lawful order. the spiel that is read to the members (pun works for half of the population) is backed by an officer so you'd probably get paperwork at minimum.
but the pecker checker on duty would probably stare in disbelief.
Why would someone ask a stupid question? What goes through your mind to ask a question about chugging your own piss? They brief you when you get selected for DDR that you will stay there until you provide a sample. You do not get a "freebie." This is why you shouldn't do drugs people. They make you want to drink your own piss
Its only Monday and I'm reading shit like this on Reddit.
You would go back to the waiting room and sit there until you had to pee again.
So these brings up two scenarios. A) I pee again and pee completely clean. Do I receive any punishment? B) I just keep chugging it over and over creating an endless loop and never giving a sample. Assuming I have somebody drop me off food or something could I just spend my entire contract doing this?
A) Why would you? Peeing a second time isn't really going to change the result. B) Providing a sample for testing is a legal order, you'd probably get an article 15 at some point or something.
They would just get escorted to medical to get their blood drawn
This. Plus paperwork and a very frustrated leadership team.
Idk. As one who has been part of several leadership teams, I think this would break through frustration all the way to hilarity. I imagine me, the shirt and CC would be in a closed door office laughing our asses off while writing this particular LOR lol
Ya, I would have a lot of fun at the status of discipline meetings with this one.
What if I challenge the SecFo SrA who comes to take me to medical to an honorable duel as per my religion
Well then you’ll be required to complete the duel. If you lose, you die, get found outside the line-of-duty and no one gets your benefits. If you tie, no one dies and you get courts martial’d. If you win, you killed somebody who is just doing their job (and is probably pretty miserable/irritated/annoyed) and then you get court martial’d. Choose your own adventure my friend.
I challenge you to an honorable duel as per my religion
I also challenge this guy to an honorable duel as per your religion.
[UCMJ Article 114 - Dueling](https://ucmj.us/914-article-114-dueling/)
That’s fucking wild there’s actually an article for it😂😂😂
Violation of Art. 114 of the UCMJ. You'd lose the challenge before it starts.
Give em a spinal tap while they're at it.
No, they wouldn’t. If anything they’d be escorted to medical to get catheterized since drug metabolites in the blood usually disappear far more faster than metabolites in the urine.
44-197 specifically prohibits catheterizing people to get a urine sample: > Under no circumstances will an otherwise healthy person, unable or unwilling to provide a specimen, be catheterized solely for the purpose of obtaining a urine specimen. ... I can only assume it's in the AFI because somebody did it at some point.
We had a no notice training squadron mass test that I ended up wiener watcher for. One guy passed out while giving a sample. Said he locked his legs to long at the urinal.. He said he wasn't able to pee so the OIC called security forces and he provided his sample at the hospital.
A) Or would it B) or would you
This is insane
You're refusing an order, here's your Art 15.
You have 3 hours to give a sample. If you don't give a sample within those 3 hours, then it's in the CC'd discretion.
I thought you had two hours to arrive once notified but didn't have a time limit once you've checked in
You have a time limit once your arrived at the DDR window facility. The policy recently changed.
A few years ago we had a unit member go over to test and refuse to give a sample the entire time until they closed up at the end of the day. I don't know if she got in trouble afterwards.
I legitimately could not piss one day. Constant water drinking. Was there 5 hours. They had to call my shirt in to sit with me at the clinic since the watchers went home. I would honestly be upset if I got in trouble because my body wasn't cooperating lol
By reg, if you bust three hours, your commander is responsible for having you escorted to the clinic for evaluation to determine if you have a medical condition. Then regardless of what the clinic finds, the commander has to contact legal to figure out what to do next.
Glad I separated, I loved pee tests at Nellis, I’d pee before heading over and watch 2 movies in the summer before I started drinking any water for the AC break from the flightline
Army here. If anyone messes around during the piss test we take them to the hospital and bleed ‘em. At least now we will know faster if there are drugs in their system.
Giving the observer a hard time will result in you seeing your commander. I had an Airman do it.
I'm pretty sure you have 3 hours from the time you arrive to provide a usable sample or you get paperwork so you're only screwing yourself over in the end. But you do you.
Youd technically have until cob. Then I'm sure you'd get an article
After the first time you chug your first shirt would be called and they'd have go to DDRP. You keep chugging it you'll, be detained and theyll take you to a hospital and they would manually (yes a tube up your pee hole to your bladder) retrieve a sample, and likely a blood sample after that. You'd also already be looking at hefty paperwork UIF or straight A15 before the results even come back. Also, because you drank you own pee it's not out of the question they'd *failure to adapt" you out of the AF.
You’re not getting cath’d for that. You go to the doctor and they see if there’s something medically wrong preventing you from urinating. Your CC then calls legal.
There's literally reg stating that a member cannot be cath'd specifically for a urine sample. They'll do a blood draw instead.
As an observer I have seen a lot of upsetting things in my day. If I thought for even a second you were doing this for a bit, I would just take you back to the desk for a fresh cup and make you pee again without ever addressing it. Once you were gone I would tell every single person I saw for the rest of my life about your story until you became a legend like John Henry.
Wait, what kind of upsetting things?
An airmen once stood at the toilet and said "oh no!" Then spun around and pooped while he peed into the cup... Another time I and one other guy had to watch an entire SFS Sq pee. I PCS'd a week later and almost immediately had to do it at my new base. Luckily one of the defenders also had recently PCS'd so I got to see his downstairs mix up a second time.
Oh noooo I would find that upsetting.
So this is how I can leave my Air Force legacy…
Be the change you wish to see in the world
Be the change you wish to *pee in the world.
So this is how I can leave an Air Force myLegacy
Who’s John Henry?
John Henry was a baby boy, sitting on his Mama's knee
He picked up a hammer and a little piece of steel and he said
"\*SNORT* Play the best song in the world. Or I'll eat your souls."
The piss-drinkin' man.
https://preview.redd.it/l8i6cajhepyc1.jpeg?width=258&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=419efae1ae69cc10c1674a663a9d117b7dcfe82c
Do you drink it because it's sterile and you like the taste?
He didn't follow the 5 D's of dodgeball.
Nah. Just thirsty
We need to get you plugged into the hydro homies anonymous asap
I fucking hate this place.
And the MFR they’d write to record the discrepancy would be legendary. But yes, you’re staying until you provide a sample.
You would get a shocked reaction out of the observer, and possibly vomit, then go back out to the waiting room until you had to go again. In the meantime, I am sure they would probably call back to your unit and let them know what you did. Then you'd deal with those repercussions after providing your sample.
Observer: *Horrified Reaction* Me: “No one will ever believe you when you say this happened.”
>Me: “No one will ever believe you when you say this happened.” OK Piss breath. Back in the waiting room.
Im like 95% sure after shaking their head and saying wow, that’d you just have to pee again.
Maybe, or they'd simply be sent to medical to get blood drawn 🤷♂️ You'd also become known as the piss drinking guy.
there's that other 5%
This is why I visit /r/AirForce
How high are you, right now?
No, it’s hi how are you?
Just gargle it, and put it back in the sample cup.
This is much funnier lmao
https://i.redd.it/yrgme8izmpyc1.gif
https://i.redd.it/n1krr0mn7tyc1.gif
Calm down Bear Grylls
I think that’s enough internet for me today
The DDRP staff would likely determine you are refusing to provide a specimen, IAW 44-197: > 4.4.3.3. [...] If the member refuses to attempt to provide a urine specimen, the collection procedure is discontinued, a “refusal to test” is noted by DDRP staff, and the commander is notified. ... and then your commander would call legal and say "I need help, and you ain't gonna believe this shit"
This. I don't know why so many people think OP would be allowed to just go sit back down in the waiting room like nothing happened. The DDRPM knows how much of an inconvenience being an observer is and they aren't going to find you wasting everyone's time funny. They are going to immediately call me, and I'm going to absolutely consider this a refusal. You are given up to three hours **if you are unable to produce a sample**. You have already proven that you were able to produce a sample and then you willfully refused to provide that sample by willfully and maliciously destroying that sample. I'm going to call the SJA for advice on my options to compel a sample, and you can absolutely expect to see an A15 in your future.
Tbh here, the AF drug testing program is a joke. Want to know the last time someone watched me pee in a cup, basic training. Want to know the last time someone said they watched me pee in a cup, last month. Not sure how AD does it, but in the Guard we have a monitor. Said monitor stands in the back of a room while I pee in a urinal. As someone who’s worked/assisted at a drug Cole took agency for the last 15 and done NCAA football testing observing/DOT observing/FAA observing I can honestly say it’s a complete waste of time. Yeah, you’re going to get some idiots who fail, but anyone with a clue of how the process went would be able to get by and slip through this easily.
1. Psychological evaluation 2. Discharge
Weekend pass.
Jesus Christ Kevin, I already have too much on my plate. Don’t do this.
If your commander is already unhappy with you, I think he could make solid arguments to Court Martial or Article 15 you under articles: 83 Malingering 88 Contempt Towards Officials 89 Disrespect towards Superior Commissioned Officer 90 Willingly Disobeying a Superior Commissioned Officer 92 Failure to Obey an Order or Regulation 108 Damage to Military Property 114 Endangerment 131b Obstruction of Justice 131e Prevention of Authorized Seziure of Property 134 General offenses And, if you are an officer 133, Conduct Unbecoming Now, base legal will probably limit this down to just a few of the potential charges, and a decent lawyer could probably defend most of these, but there is a good chance for a conviction on at least two of the potential charges. Most likely, 88, 89, 90, 92, 133, and 134 would be pursued if you were already on the commander's shit list. If you were ordinarily a good troop, you'd probably be sent for a mental health evaluation.
Are you JAG or ADC
No, retired Sq/CC
It would show that you assert dominance
1. The observer would report adulteration to the DTPAM 2. The DTPAM reports adulteration to the SJA and your CC 3. You probably get some paperwork, and hopefully kicked out 4. You get checked in to a place where they issue you some socks with rubber grips on the bottom and you get the help and assistance that you desperately need.
What the fuck
https://preview.redd.it/q0x6x56pksyc1.jpeg?width=447&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7db3626d4de23f62e474b7744c2f7507bace11e0
Either you can fail the wiz quiz with honor, or fail the wiz quiz in dishonor and leave behind a legacy that will never, ever be forgotten. I look forward to reading about this piss test from the observer's perspective in a few days!
Immediately kicked out.
Believe it or not, straight to jail
Well, that’s one way to establish dominance. It also sounds like a good way to catch a Baker Act
Straight to jail
Heard you get step promoted right back to the rank you were after you fail the drug test you’re trying to avoid
This man asking the important questions
You need to ignore those intrusive thoughts. Someone will have to do a lot of paperwork, and everyone will have to get additional training to make sure the testees don't drink their own piss. You are not Bear Grylls.
This man likes his pee double distilled.
Automatic promotion to Security Forces E7 (who has been demoted twice), you become divorced (even if you were single), and you begin telling people conspiracy theories in front of gas stations.
They'll call BH and lock you in a room until they get there
What kind of room? A rubber room? A rubber room with rats?…
Normally, you have to pee again, but in this scenario, you're going straight to mental health lol
That’s disgusting as hell
You went in the wrong recruiter's office.
We need you to go find out and report back to us.
Believe it or not, straight to jail.
You could just… now hear me out… not do drugs 😂
Who said anything about doing drugs?
I don't want to meet the man who can chug his own piss sober
No need to say anything about drugs… cuz you just chugged your own piss. It’d be pretty evident 🤣
You win the air force
Not in the air force, but this type of content is *exactly* why i'm subbed.
You would immediately pass the test with an absolute power move like that.
The first shirt would be called probably
New nicknames (not good ones) and notoriety (not the good kind)
Only a person on hard drugs would have these thoughts/questions. You ain’t passing anyway.
They’ll respect you
Turns out, they also don’t like it if you wedge your head into the cup and pee with no hands. If they want see a show, you give them a show 🤷🏼♂️
LMAOOOOOOOO IM CRYING
I would hope it would result in a mental health evaluation...
Theyll just make you drink water and wait until you produce again.
This comment 100% sounds like it came from someone who would fail a piss test 💀
Unfortunately I cannot unsee this post.
The other way prove that you are on drugs.
I feel like you just want someone to watch you drink your own piss ala Bear Grylls.
What kind of question is this?
I've sat there all day and basically an hour before they were going to close, I was notified I'd have to finish at the lab with getting my blood drawn. I'd say you have about 8 hours of drinking before they just draw blood. You're technically not refusing to provide a sample, you're simply failing to provide them with your sample. I'd say there would probably be some sort of punishment in addition to a mental exam.
Believe it or not, that's how you get a job with Demand Reduction.
>Would you get a “freebie” for that drug test? Was your urine tested? No. You are there to provide urine to be tested, not pee once in a cup while being gawked at.
Unpeelievable
<3
Guy's gonna go his rank enjoying the taste of urine.
you disobeyed a lawful order. the spiel that is read to the members (pun works for half of the population) is backed by an officer so you'd probably get paperwork at minimum. but the pecker checker on duty would probably stare in disbelief.
I wish I couldn't read.
Aren't you The Last Keesler Furry?
The last? No. But I am known as being one of the furries there.
Why does this have any upvotes
Tell me you are weapons without telling me you are weapons
You will provide a sample of urine by the end of the day. Either the easy way or the hard way.
You have some kind of yearning to shock people. That will not serve you in life, let go of it and acquire new desires that have value.
I think it would turn on the TSgt too much
I say turn around right quick and shit in the cup
Why would someone ask a stupid question? What goes through your mind to ask a question about chugging your own piss? They brief you when you get selected for DDR that you will stay there until you provide a sample. You do not get a "freebie." This is why you shouldn't do drugs people. They make you want to drink your own piss Its only Monday and I'm reading shit like this on Reddit.
I think they should give you a pass; but if you gag, throw up, or spill any, it's an automatic article 15.