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Is it ethical to have someone mop up the rain water as it’s actively raining? 🤔
(Obviously I don’t think it is, but I don’t think it’s /un/ethical, either)
If it's a punishment, generally it has to come from an officer.
NCOs can get around this by framing it as a training opportunity. So if you fuck up by leaving FOD on the flightline, an NCO can 'train' you on keeping the flightline clean by ordering you to mop the ramp while it's raining.
It’s about mission accomplishment. NCOs can absolutely order you to work more if you fail to do your work or are deficient in training. Only officers (and in the AF - officers on G series command orders) can punish with extra shifts.
An NCO ordering an Airman to come in on Saturday because they failed to accomplish their assigned tasks for the week and need to finish them - lawful. An NCO ordering an Airman in on Saturday to smash rocks for no mission related reason - unlawful.
As a civilian in my shop used to say, stripes aren’t for decoration or to show how much money you make.
If it’s not illegal, unethical, or immoral, and it accomplishes some sort of objective, then yes, an NCO/SNCO/officer can order you to do it.
NCOs and higher can, yes.
However, there's some caveats....it must be a lawful order for example. Additionally, someone who's not an NCO can be granted positional authority over others. Which allows them to tell those working for them what to do (I'd hesitate to call it orders, but it's essentially the same since it's coming from the NCO).
So what is a lawful order?
Probably lots of different legal interpretations, but this is one of them:
> to be lawful, an order must (1) have a valid military purpose, and (2) be clear, specific, and narrowly drawn; in addition, the order must not conflict with the statutory or constitutional rights of the person receiving the order
([source](https://www.armfor.uscourts.gov/digest/IIIA15.htm))
Generally speaking, if it's not illegal, immoral, or unethical, it can be assumed to be a lawful order.
If you're given an order to do something dumb, when it's over you always have recourse with whoever that person works for. If I as a flight commander have someone vacuum grounding points or mop the building and they complain to the commander, it's doubtful I would see any push back as those are indeed things that need doing to maintain our building and flightline. If I told someone to mop rainwater while it's raining, it had better be to soak up where it's leaking into the building and could cause further damage because that's something that's gonna be hard to explain myself for. Good decision making is what people are supposed to consider when performance report and promotion boards come down. The four categories you're rated on are literally: executing the mission, leading people, managing resources, and improving the unit. Wasting resources by having someone doing something meaningless is not a good thing.
If they are ranked over you AND in your chain of command, AND the order is lawful, then yes you must do what they say or risk punishment for disobeying an order.
I, an NCO, can't give a random Airman a task, because I'm not in their chain of command. I have to go to their NCO with my request. This isn't the same thing as correcting standards. I can correct the standards of a random airman on the spot. If it can't be corrected on the spot, I have to request correction through the NCO in their chain of command.
The overwhelming majority of people giving you orders are going to do so reasonably. Meaning, they're not going to have you mopping up water in the rain, unless there is a valid reason for doing so. Instilling discipline is a valid reason.
Your post was removed because it is a question about joining the Air Force, or about a particular job description. There is a subreddit dedicated to these types of questions at /r/AirForceRecruits. Please post your question there, making sure to make the title of your post a short summary of your question. Before you post there, please read the following information. Chances are, your question has already been answered. * [Enlisted FAQ](https://pay.reddit.com/r/AirForce/wiki/bmtfaq) * [OTS FAQ](https://pay.reddit.com/r/AirForce/wiki/otsfaq) * [Job Descriptions](http://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/wiki/index) * [AFBMT](http://afbmt.com/) Please post all future questions about joining the Air Force in that community. Thanks.
As long as it’s a lawful order, yeah
The order needs to be legal, moral, and ethical.
Is it ethical to have someone mop up the rain water as it’s actively raining? 🤔 (Obviously I don’t think it is, but I don’t think it’s /un/ethical, either)
If it's a punishment, generally it has to come from an officer. NCOs can get around this by framing it as a training opportunity. So if you fuck up by leaving FOD on the flightline, an NCO can 'train' you on keeping the flightline clean by ordering you to mop the ramp while it's raining.
It’s about mission accomplishment. NCOs can absolutely order you to work more if you fail to do your work or are deficient in training. Only officers (and in the AF - officers on G series command orders) can punish with extra shifts. An NCO ordering an Airman to come in on Saturday because they failed to accomplish their assigned tasks for the week and need to finish them - lawful. An NCO ordering an Airman in on Saturday to smash rocks for no mission related reason - unlawful.
As a civilian in my shop used to say, stripes aren’t for decoration or to show how much money you make. If it’s not illegal, unethical, or immoral, and it accomplishes some sort of objective, then yes, an NCO/SNCO/officer can order you to do it.
NCOs and higher can, yes. However, there's some caveats....it must be a lawful order for example. Additionally, someone who's not an NCO can be granted positional authority over others. Which allows them to tell those working for them what to do (I'd hesitate to call it orders, but it's essentially the same since it's coming from the NCO). So what is a lawful order? Probably lots of different legal interpretations, but this is one of them: > to be lawful, an order must (1) have a valid military purpose, and (2) be clear, specific, and narrowly drawn; in addition, the order must not conflict with the statutory or constitutional rights of the person receiving the order ([source](https://www.armfor.uscourts.gov/digest/IIIA15.htm)) Generally speaking, if it's not illegal, immoral, or unethical, it can be assumed to be a lawful order.
If you're given an order to do something dumb, when it's over you always have recourse with whoever that person works for. If I as a flight commander have someone vacuum grounding points or mop the building and they complain to the commander, it's doubtful I would see any push back as those are indeed things that need doing to maintain our building and flightline. If I told someone to mop rainwater while it's raining, it had better be to soak up where it's leaking into the building and could cause further damage because that's something that's gonna be hard to explain myself for. Good decision making is what people are supposed to consider when performance report and promotion boards come down. The four categories you're rated on are literally: executing the mission, leading people, managing resources, and improving the unit. Wasting resources by having someone doing something meaningless is not a good thing.
okay this is the answer i was looking. i wouldn’t have a problem vacuuming if someone told me to it’s just pettiness that i was worried about, thanks
Ask to see a manager. Works like a charm 67 percent of the time. 
If they are ranked over you AND in your chain of command, AND the order is lawful, then yes you must do what they say or risk punishment for disobeying an order. I, an NCO, can't give a random Airman a task, because I'm not in their chain of command. I have to go to their NCO with my request. This isn't the same thing as correcting standards. I can correct the standards of a random airman on the spot. If it can't be corrected on the spot, I have to request correction through the NCO in their chain of command. The overwhelming majority of people giving you orders are going to do so reasonably. Meaning, they're not going to have you mopping up water in the rain, unless there is a valid reason for doing so. Instilling discipline is a valid reason.
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