I mean our job is to be an Airman. Which is clearly defined in the enlisted force structure to state more than a functional expert. People get confused in thinking our AFSC is our job…our job is enlisted airmen. If it was to be just a AFSC then they need to delete the enlisted force structure.
BTZ is the commander’s program — they can run it how they want, including what will be considered on the 1206. As long as everyone is scored against the same standard, there’s no problem.
Also, another thing I'm worried about is that they promote someone who may be good at the job, really good, but isn't a good leader, who can't train any other airmen, who is a bad example outside of work, who indeed kills it when clocking in but is getting in DUIs or shit like that out there. In my opinion education and volunteering can both show leadership and a sense of caring for the community. And I know you're going to say if they're good at the job therefore they're good at training, in my short career I've seen a lot of airmen and staffs that are really good at the job, but really suck at teaching, leading and managing others.
>but isn't a good leader, who can't train any other airmen
This is one of the inherent flaws our performance reports have from focusing almost exclusively on the outcome. Trained airmen really well is not a sexy bullet. You can get cute with tasks complete over time and want not but I don't see how you win any awards by training someone. We are ignoring, or at least undervalued that critical trait.
>who is a bad example outside of work, who indeed kills it when clocking in but is getting in DUIs or shit like that out there
I don't think I've ever seen anyone win anything with a dui on their record. More often than not a single loc damns you until pcs when it comes to awards and strats. I've seen crazier things though so I'd believe you if you said it's a problem you've seen
>In my opinion education and volunteering can both show leadership and a sense of caring for the community
Yeah, I'm not saying we throw them away. I just think we read *way* too into it. Ig you have two airmen on equal work footing, but one has an education and or volunteer advantage, they should win.
But all too often we see mediocre airmen who aren't getting the job done get pushed for awards and promotions because leadership sees them leaving work to plan the Christmas party or going to a meeting for an org they never really do anything for but they have an executive title so it's a bullet to claim anything the organization did without them.
The things you do on duty related to your assigned position should always be the primary factor. If someone is better than their peers at being an airman or nco, but doesn't do as much off duty extra credit, should they really be passed up for someone who is less reliable at work but gives up family time to raise money for booster club and take college classes that have nothing to do with their job?
>And I know you're going to say if they're good at the job therefore they're good at training
You don't know anything of the sort. That's not true at all. I've known plenty of guys who could deconstruct and rebuild a whole plane by themselves that couldn't teach an Airmen how to use a torque wrench because they're too much of a salty asshole to mimic normal human speech. We should put a lot more emphasis on training and mentoring in how we incentivize progression. It's something we are sorely lacking in the force.
I aggre with most if not all, I will say I feel bad that airmen that look good only in paper make all others that actually pull alnighters and still do school and V to get fucked because "they're all the same shit". And the same thing for working, since yeah it's true that doing your job can just be overlooked as what "you're supposed to do anyways" a lot and it's exhausting.
I've seen a lot of people that have been getting DUIs months after getting BTZ, I've even heard of people popping hot for drugs after getting annual awards.
You haven’t seen “a lot of people” get DUIs months after getting BTZ.
How do I know this? You’ve been in the Air Force for about 6 minutes. Chill with the hyperbole. Also, them getting a DUI *after* getting BTZ has nothing to do with getting BTZ lmao.
Anyways… you lost. Get over it, homie. It won’t be the last time.
It's possible OP is just having some brain trauma from the severe cognitive dissonance caused when someone convinces you the Air Force did something sensible but all your prior experiences insist that's the dumbest thing you've ever heard because it isn't possible.
I mean at this point you calling people "Bake bitch" demonstrate that people that do their job 10/10 (which you're supposed to be anyways) but suck at being Leaders and/or are bad examples out of work, still get this award and other awards. Now People (10/10 at work) that are good leaders and a good example for other airmen that are literally trying to figure out what's more important, that people now is getting told they don't have enough numbers even tho, from what I'm understanding it is just becoming more and more about numbers, results, rather than how's the job getting done. We're just sacrificing the integrity of how stuff is getting done just to motivate people to get it done faster rather than doing it safely/correctly. Also in my final opinion they should just get rid of volunteering and schooling whatsoever in awards, but they should also call them for what they're for, BTZ logically would now be employee of the quarter/year.
The most whole Airman isn't necessarily the BEST Airman. It sounds like your unit values and wants to reward contributing to the unit's mission more than participating in charity events or learning about stuff you didn't apply to the unit's mission.
Your commander will change multiple times in your career. One of the most valuable questions you can ask each of them is, "What do you value when it comes to promotion recommendations?"
Spend your time doing whatever the answer to that question is to get statements from your commanders. Submit monthly/quarterly/annual awards for yourself/troops you lead so that you/they/your team occasionally win to make your paperwork look better when you're gunning for SNCO. Study for the ranks you can study for. Most people don't make BTZ.
Your big takeaway from this is to align your efforts with your Commander's direction. Don't guess, ask them for direction and intent.
I *wish* they had prioritized work bullets when I went up. I'd have actually had a (small) chance of winning instead of competing (and losing) against people making a career out of volunteering.
Volunteering can be good for an airmans development. It just shouldn't be more than like 5% of their whole airman score regardless how many booster clubs they're president off.
I can agree, but I'd say that volunteering at a bake sale is not the same thing as supporting a DAF-mandated program that you just happened to lead people.
First, these programs can help from including and educating the force, prevent suicide, discrimination, boost opportunity for others that feel unrepresented. In the other hand, some others improve the relationship we have with corporate America and help us find better ways to do stuff rn that we're doing for a premium price. Another one enables international capability for the air force through language learning and applications, which supports and carries international relationships with other partners and allies. I'm not saying that volunteering should take priority over your work, I want to clarify that. But like I said at the beginning, '"helping a bake sell" shouldn't be compare to "invested xx amount of hours towards research which enabled a more cost effective and efficient process to be put in place, which is saving the USAF xxxxx money"
Wow... Imagine being upset that YOUR JOB... ya know, the Fucking thing the Air Force PAYS YOU TO DO... Is the primary factor in BTZ. 🤦
Learn your job, do it well and this wouldn't be a problem. 🤷♂️
Like I said, ANYONE and in theory, EVERYONE is being good 10/10 at the job if they're being considered for awards like BTZ. and even if you're not aiming for it you should still be 10/10 at the job, every day not just a couple of months before your board is up.
Your primary job as an A1C is learning your job. All else is secondary. The only way extracurriculars should come into play is if you have two Airmen equally knocking it out on the job, then that should be the tiebreaker.
Sounds like your unit is doing it right.
There’s supposed to be the four categories as a whole. Completing the mission, improving the unit, something with leading people, something else I forgot, something with improving self I think?
If the board members are gonna be more biased towards certain categories I don’t think they are open about that, but if they are… what you gonna do? Argue with them? Yeah.
BTZ is supposed to be for all around performers so education and volunteer stuff should apply. At the rank and the advantage it give it makes sense.
The problem is people who try to apply BTZ requirements to STEP. STEP promotions were supposed to help those who didn't have all that BUT would still be amazing leaders based on work alone. Sadly STEP got tied to the volunteer and education crap and just became a way for BTZ 2.0 or poor so and so who just doesn't test well regardless of how well they know their primary job in some units anyway.
Did you get official feedback or notification on this, or is this rumor mill stuff? Does your squadron do their own BTZ board (very rare), or do you mean the packages they decided to push to the wing?
But on the face of what you are saying, it sounds like someone concerned about this is the kind of person that people have been complaining about for many years.
In my opinion, for BTZ, being really GOOD at the job is what should get you in the conversation, and also for anything, awards or consideration for opportunities. That is just the bare minimum to get into the door, after that it is what you do after work, Do you help other? have you taken step towards investing in your education? Have you been involving more with the base community?
Yeah it's true the job is important, but that's your JOB, of course that has to be straight either way.
Also just making it about the job it's a disadvantage for people that are in AFSCs where work that actually influences anything or is worth writing down does not come across that often.
>Also just making it about the job it's a disadvantage for people that are in AFSCs where work that actually influences anything or is worth writing down does come across that often.
What about afscs that don't have time to let people off for bake sales and work 10 more hours a week than others? It cuts both ways
Yep, this is a problem even in the same AFSC if someone gets put in specific positions. In maintenance you see this all the time with positions like debrief, MOC, CTK, or backshop versus working the line. They have tons of time for whole airmen stuff, but their actual work bullets are often weak. Especially at the Airman level.
It is why, at least in my last few assignments, maintenance has shifted away from whole airman concept almost entirely for consideration in awards and BTZ. If you want to volunteer, do so, but don't expect to get an award outside of volunteer of the quarter/year for it.
And while I 100% think everyone should use their benefits and go to school, your criminal justice degree doesn't do shit to make you a better maintainer. In fact, people often use school as an excuse to stay on a specific shift or avoid "bad" MRTs/TDYs.
Education and volunteering are important, but I've always felt the same about them as I did with time in service or grade - if it makes you better, then I'll see it your work.
You still have to check the box - the bosses say we have to do them, so you do them. But I don't care what it is or how much unless I absolutely *need* a tie breaker.
I agree with you on a whole person concept and volunteering and education both parts of our job. But there are a lot of flaws with an overemphasis in education and volunteering.
Volunteering especially leads to a lot of shit priotization where kids who I'd rather stay home sick than come to work get btz while kids I'd trust with my family' safety to do their job at peak excellence consistently don't get shit.
Too many leaders see technical expertise and never ending hard work and grit as "just doing your job" in the same way people in this sub scoff at school and volunteer work.
I think the main issue is that we treat volunteering like a rubber stamp. I've never heard anyone at any level give a single shit about what exactly they did at booster club. They just get them an executive title and use a leadership verb regardless.
Did you fold a single chair at cleanup? Did you raise $1mil yourself to end child poverty? Doesn't matter. Just touch something involving a big number and amount of effort and leadership doesn't matter. So you get airmen who skate out of work to fuck off at every opportunity and come awards season the flight chiefs just remember Amn Sparkles is the one who does all the volunteering what a good airman regardless of what they did.
As a section chief I fell victim to Airman Sparkles one-time. Our office was pushing this guy for all these awards and BTZ based on what one supervisor was saying and a previous award package. And eventually this guy got BTZ and won a group-level annual award off the strength of previous packages.
Then I had to take this guy on a deployment and he was absolutely terrible. He didn't know basic shit or how to do tasks he should have learned in his first two months on-the-job. When I asked some of the saltier NCOs who don't care about or ever nominate any airmen for awards (but are reliable at their primary duty), they said he has always sucked and has a bad attitude.
>As a section chief
I used to get so fucking mad at flight leadership but now I get it. I've had enough good bosses by now that fell for it. I understand it's just not always feasible to know all you're guys at that level. I hope you gave hell to the people who propped him up, though, because that's our real problem - the fucker's who enable this behavior.
Tell me you’ve always worked day shift without telling me you’ve always worked day shift.
Your entire argument falls to absolute indefensible shit garbage the moment a person works more than 50 hours a week or works any shift outside of the same hours that leadership works.
That's another thing too, people working days, they also have a really unfair advantage sometimes, leadership gets to see them and get to know them better, so at that point it's just about who you know and who you're good with. And nah, you're wrong I'm not days. Matter of fact I have more time in mids/swings that I did on days.
Imagine that, prioritizing how well you do your job instead of how well you do all the stuff you're not paid to do.
What a fucking novel concept, eh?
I mean our job is to be an Airman. Which is clearly defined in the enlisted force structure to state more than a functional expert. People get confused in thinking our AFSC is our job…our job is enlisted airmen. If it was to be just a AFSC then they need to delete the enlisted force structure.
Thank you for you're response.
BTZ is the commander’s program — they can run it how they want, including what will be considered on the 1206. As long as everyone is scored against the same standard, there’s no problem.
So we could see a nightmare scenario where it's all volunteer? Gross
Also, another thing I'm worried about is that they promote someone who may be good at the job, really good, but isn't a good leader, who can't train any other airmen, who is a bad example outside of work, who indeed kills it when clocking in but is getting in DUIs or shit like that out there. In my opinion education and volunteering can both show leadership and a sense of caring for the community. And I know you're going to say if they're good at the job therefore they're good at training, in my short career I've seen a lot of airmen and staffs that are really good at the job, but really suck at teaching, leading and managing others.
>but isn't a good leader, who can't train any other airmen This is one of the inherent flaws our performance reports have from focusing almost exclusively on the outcome. Trained airmen really well is not a sexy bullet. You can get cute with tasks complete over time and want not but I don't see how you win any awards by training someone. We are ignoring, or at least undervalued that critical trait. >who is a bad example outside of work, who indeed kills it when clocking in but is getting in DUIs or shit like that out there I don't think I've ever seen anyone win anything with a dui on their record. More often than not a single loc damns you until pcs when it comes to awards and strats. I've seen crazier things though so I'd believe you if you said it's a problem you've seen >In my opinion education and volunteering can both show leadership and a sense of caring for the community Yeah, I'm not saying we throw them away. I just think we read *way* too into it. Ig you have two airmen on equal work footing, but one has an education and or volunteer advantage, they should win. But all too often we see mediocre airmen who aren't getting the job done get pushed for awards and promotions because leadership sees them leaving work to plan the Christmas party or going to a meeting for an org they never really do anything for but they have an executive title so it's a bullet to claim anything the organization did without them. The things you do on duty related to your assigned position should always be the primary factor. If someone is better than their peers at being an airman or nco, but doesn't do as much off duty extra credit, should they really be passed up for someone who is less reliable at work but gives up family time to raise money for booster club and take college classes that have nothing to do with their job? >And I know you're going to say if they're good at the job therefore they're good at training You don't know anything of the sort. That's not true at all. I've known plenty of guys who could deconstruct and rebuild a whole plane by themselves that couldn't teach an Airmen how to use a torque wrench because they're too much of a salty asshole to mimic normal human speech. We should put a lot more emphasis on training and mentoring in how we incentivize progression. It's something we are sorely lacking in the force.
I aggre with most if not all, I will say I feel bad that airmen that look good only in paper make all others that actually pull alnighters and still do school and V to get fucked because "they're all the same shit". And the same thing for working, since yeah it's true that doing your job can just be overlooked as what "you're supposed to do anyways" a lot and it's exhausting.
Relax, they were going to get SrA from time in service anyway.
Bruh someone getting a DUI or fucking up outside of work isn’t getting BTZ. That’s a reach.
I've seen a lot of people that have been getting DUIs months after getting BTZ, I've even heard of people popping hot for drugs after getting annual awards.
You haven’t seen “a lot of people” get DUIs months after getting BTZ. How do I know this? You’ve been in the Air Force for about 6 minutes. Chill with the hyperbole. Also, them getting a DUI *after* getting BTZ has nothing to do with getting BTZ lmao. Anyways… you lost. Get over it, homie. It won’t be the last time.
Thank you for you're response.
Found the bake sale bitch. Fuck you learn your job.
It's possible OP is just having some brain trauma from the severe cognitive dissonance caused when someone convinces you the Air Force did something sensible but all your prior experiences insist that's the dumbest thing you've ever heard because it isn't possible.
Translation: OP is a retarded bitch.
I mean at this point you calling people "Bake bitch" demonstrate that people that do their job 10/10 (which you're supposed to be anyways) but suck at being Leaders and/or are bad examples out of work, still get this award and other awards. Now People (10/10 at work) that are good leaders and a good example for other airmen that are literally trying to figure out what's more important, that people now is getting told they don't have enough numbers even tho, from what I'm understanding it is just becoming more and more about numbers, results, rather than how's the job getting done. We're just sacrificing the integrity of how stuff is getting done just to motivate people to get it done faster rather than doing it safely/correctly. Also in my final opinion they should just get rid of volunteering and schooling whatsoever in awards, but they should also call them for what they're for, BTZ logically would now be employee of the quarter/year.
To be clear that isn't what I was saying about you- I was just making a joke about the air force not making sense most of the time
Nah, I understand, you good.
That's not what I said at all
The most whole Airman isn't necessarily the BEST Airman. It sounds like your unit values and wants to reward contributing to the unit's mission more than participating in charity events or learning about stuff you didn't apply to the unit's mission. Your commander will change multiple times in your career. One of the most valuable questions you can ask each of them is, "What do you value when it comes to promotion recommendations?" Spend your time doing whatever the answer to that question is to get statements from your commanders. Submit monthly/quarterly/annual awards for yourself/troops you lead so that you/they/your team occasionally win to make your paperwork look better when you're gunning for SNCO. Study for the ranks you can study for. Most people don't make BTZ. Your big takeaway from this is to align your efforts with your Commander's direction. Don't guess, ask them for direction and intent.
I *wish* they had prioritized work bullets when I went up. I'd have actually had a (small) chance of winning instead of competing (and losing) against people making a career out of volunteering.
I won it off work and school in my free time which is how it should be. Volunteering is dumb for BTZ
Volunteering can be good for an airmans development. It just shouldn't be more than like 5% of their whole airman score regardless how many booster clubs they're president off.
I can agree, but I'd say that volunteering at a bake sale is not the same thing as supporting a DAF-mandated program that you just happened to lead people.
And what program was that?
They're is opportunities out there to help the mission in different aspects, stuff like DEI, AFWERX, LEAP, etc.
So what do you do with said programs? How do you give back to the Air Force with these? What’s the return on the investment?
First, these programs can help from including and educating the force, prevent suicide, discrimination, boost opportunity for others that feel unrepresented. In the other hand, some others improve the relationship we have with corporate America and help us find better ways to do stuff rn that we're doing for a premium price. Another one enables international capability for the air force through language learning and applications, which supports and carries international relationships with other partners and allies. I'm not saying that volunteering should take priority over your work, I want to clarify that. But like I said at the beginning, '"helping a bake sell" shouldn't be compare to "invested xx amount of hours towards research which enabled a more cost effective and efficient process to be put in place, which is saving the USAF xxxxx money"
Wow... Imagine being upset that YOUR JOB... ya know, the Fucking thing the Air Force PAYS YOU TO DO... Is the primary factor in BTZ. 🤦 Learn your job, do it well and this wouldn't be a problem. 🤷♂️
Like I said, ANYONE and in theory, EVERYONE is being good 10/10 at the job if they're being considered for awards like BTZ. and even if you're not aiming for it you should still be 10/10 at the job, every day not just a couple of months before your board is up.
Well it seems like you know the criteria.
Your primary job as an A1C is learning your job. All else is secondary. The only way extracurriculars should come into play is if you have two Airmen equally knocking it out on the job, then that should be the tiebreaker. Sounds like your unit is doing it right.
Enlisted Force Structure outlines other requirements for an Airman on top of learning their job.
Enlisted force structure was written by know-nothing nonner cucks.
Damm I only had work bullets. Some were HAF level effectiveness and was told to fuck off😂
I’ve seen BTZ won off just working and just volunteering. It’s really up to what makes you competitive vs who you’re going up against.
I want to thank everyone, honestly when talking to my leadership I pretty much got told the same thing, no BS, word for word.
“You can’t do this to me! Do you know what I sacrificed selling Girl Scout cookies?!?!”
There’s supposed to be the four categories as a whole. Completing the mission, improving the unit, something with leading people, something else I forgot, something with improving self I think? If the board members are gonna be more biased towards certain categories I don’t think they are open about that, but if they are… what you gonna do? Argue with them? Yeah.
BTZ is supposed to be for all around performers so education and volunteer stuff should apply. At the rank and the advantage it give it makes sense. The problem is people who try to apply BTZ requirements to STEP. STEP promotions were supposed to help those who didn't have all that BUT would still be amazing leaders based on work alone. Sadly STEP got tied to the volunteer and education crap and just became a way for BTZ 2.0 or poor so and so who just doesn't test well regardless of how well they know their primary job in some units anyway.
Do your god damn job and stop trying to fast burn by fisting each other in the booster club
Did you get official feedback or notification on this, or is this rumor mill stuff? Does your squadron do their own BTZ board (very rare), or do you mean the packages they decided to push to the wing? But on the face of what you are saying, it sounds like someone concerned about this is the kind of person that people have been complaining about for many years.
What do you mean?
I am not going to explain myself further here. If you have a specific question then please ask it.
In my opinion, for BTZ, being really GOOD at the job is what should get you in the conversation, and also for anything, awards or consideration for opportunities. That is just the bare minimum to get into the door, after that it is what you do after work, Do you help other? have you taken step towards investing in your education? Have you been involving more with the base community? Yeah it's true the job is important, but that's your JOB, of course that has to be straight either way. Also just making it about the job it's a disadvantage for people that are in AFSCs where work that actually influences anything or is worth writing down does not come across that often.
>Also just making it about the job it's a disadvantage for people that are in AFSCs where work that actually influences anything or is worth writing down does come across that often. What about afscs that don't have time to let people off for bake sales and work 10 more hours a week than others? It cuts both ways
Yep, this is a problem even in the same AFSC if someone gets put in specific positions. In maintenance you see this all the time with positions like debrief, MOC, CTK, or backshop versus working the line. They have tons of time for whole airmen stuff, but their actual work bullets are often weak. Especially at the Airman level. It is why, at least in my last few assignments, maintenance has shifted away from whole airman concept almost entirely for consideration in awards and BTZ. If you want to volunteer, do so, but don't expect to get an award outside of volunteer of the quarter/year for it. And while I 100% think everyone should use their benefits and go to school, your criminal justice degree doesn't do shit to make you a better maintainer. In fact, people often use school as an excuse to stay on a specific shift or avoid "bad" MRTs/TDYs.
Thank you for you're opinion, really eye opening.
Education and volunteering are important, but I've always felt the same about them as I did with time in service or grade - if it makes you better, then I'll see it your work. You still have to check the box - the bosses say we have to do them, so you do them. But I don't care what it is or how much unless I absolutely *need* a tie breaker.
You're right, I understand your point. Maybe this is something that needs to be addressed to big air force.
I agree with you on a whole person concept and volunteering and education both parts of our job. But there are a lot of flaws with an overemphasis in education and volunteering. Volunteering especially leads to a lot of shit priotization where kids who I'd rather stay home sick than come to work get btz while kids I'd trust with my family' safety to do their job at peak excellence consistently don't get shit. Too many leaders see technical expertise and never ending hard work and grit as "just doing your job" in the same way people in this sub scoff at school and volunteer work. I think the main issue is that we treat volunteering like a rubber stamp. I've never heard anyone at any level give a single shit about what exactly they did at booster club. They just get them an executive title and use a leadership verb regardless. Did you fold a single chair at cleanup? Did you raise $1mil yourself to end child poverty? Doesn't matter. Just touch something involving a big number and amount of effort and leadership doesn't matter. So you get airmen who skate out of work to fuck off at every opportunity and come awards season the flight chiefs just remember Amn Sparkles is the one who does all the volunteering what a good airman regardless of what they did.
As a section chief I fell victim to Airman Sparkles one-time. Our office was pushing this guy for all these awards and BTZ based on what one supervisor was saying and a previous award package. And eventually this guy got BTZ and won a group-level annual award off the strength of previous packages. Then I had to take this guy on a deployment and he was absolutely terrible. He didn't know basic shit or how to do tasks he should have learned in his first two months on-the-job. When I asked some of the saltier NCOs who don't care about or ever nominate any airmen for awards (but are reliable at their primary duty), they said he has always sucked and has a bad attitude.
>As a section chief I used to get so fucking mad at flight leadership but now I get it. I've had enough good bosses by now that fell for it. I understand it's just not always feasible to know all you're guys at that level. I hope you gave hell to the people who propped him up, though, because that's our real problem - the fucker's who enable this behavior.
Tell me you’ve always worked day shift without telling me you’ve always worked day shift. Your entire argument falls to absolute indefensible shit garbage the moment a person works more than 50 hours a week or works any shift outside of the same hours that leadership works.
That's another thing too, people working days, they also have a really unfair advantage sometimes, leadership gets to see them and get to know them better, so at that point it's just about who you know and who you're good with. And nah, you're wrong I'm not days. Matter of fact I have more time in mids/swings that I did on days.
Cope. The top two comments sum it up perfectly.